Transcript for MuggleCast Episode #669, The Wizarding World is Fudged (GOF Chapter 36, The Parting of the Ways)
Show Intro
[Show music plays]
Andrew Sims: Welcome to MuggleCast, your weekly ride into the Wizarding World fandom. I’m Andrew.
Eric Scull: I’m Eric.
Micah Tannenbaum: I’m Micah.
Laura Tee: And I’m Laura.
Andrew: And this week, witness the beginning of the end for Cornelius Fudge’s political career as we tackle Chapter 36, “The Parting of the Ways.” [laughs] This chapter title is actually kind of appropriate for this episode, because we’re talking about the parting of the ways in our little news block, right, Eric? Something dramatic happened over the last week.
Eric: Yes, yes. There are many partings of the ways underway, and the most notable of which in news this week is the parting of MinaLima – that’s Miraphora Mina and Eduardo Lima, the graphic designers of many things in the Wizarding World – with Scholastic’s print editions of their interactive MinaLima versions of the Harry Potter books. They have done three, and this week it came to light that they have “not been commissioned for a future MinaLima book, and will not be doing the rest of the Harry Potter series in MinaLima edition.”
Andrew: Yeah, so there have been two illustrated series running right now. We’ve had the Jim Kay Harry Potter illustrated editions; they’re up to Book 5, but he announced, I guess, last year or two years ago now, that he’s left and somebody else is supposed to be coming in, but we haven’t heard anything about Half-Blood Prince. And then at the same time, there have been these MinaLima editions, and now Scholastic doesn’t want them back. And there was another dramatic turn, because Scholastic announced that they’re going to continue with this series, but without MinaLima? They’re MinaLima editions.
Eric: I mean, we’re talking about the people that first designed Harry’s Hogwarts acceptance letter in the movie; this is how far back the relationship goes between MinaLima and Harry Potter. Every Daily Prophet article you’ve ever seen, the fun font, the crazy whole… everything in the wizarding world is MinaLima. There is no MinaLima edition without MinaLima! There’s not even barely any live action Harry Potter without MinaLima! So this is really shocking.
Andrew: It is, it is. I think they’ve done some theme park work too. When they announced the Ministry of Magic land a couple weeks ago, I think MinaLima said they’d been collaborating, so they’re deeply involved in everything Harry Potter.
Eric: All the signage, all the typography, all the… the entire look and feel of the wizarding world, in short…
Micah: … is them. They worked on Fantastic Beasts, and they have their own shop in London. And it’s curious, because how much will they continue to do with the series moving forward? Is this just the tipping point? I just don’t see it going beyond Prisoner of Azkaban. You can’t continue this particular editions of the books without them. [laughs] It’s just ridiculous, as you were saying before, and I know we’re going to talk more about it.
Eric: Yeah, I’m glad you asked, Micah, about other projects as well and the status, because that is actually the topic of this week’s bonus MuggleCast, which will be released for Wizarding World – no – MuggleCast Gold members, and also on our Patreon to patrons.
Andrew: Yeah, and if you’re not already a patron, you can purchase this specific bonus MuggleCast for $3 at Patreon.com/MuggleCast. We announced this new element with last week’s bonus MuggleCast as well, in which we were talking about the Ministry of Magic land at Universal Orlando. And yeah, we’re very excited about being able to offer individual bonus MuggleCasts now, if maybe you don’t want to commit to a subscription, but you do want to hear us talk about, let’s say, this dramatic MinaLima news. There’s a lot more to talk about here, and we will when we have more time in bonus MuggleCast this week. Thanks, everybody. No matter how you support us, we really appreciate your support.
Chapter by Chapter: Seven-Word Summary
Andrew: So now let’s get into Goblet of Fire Chapter 36, “The Parting of the Ways.” Back to the parting of the ways in the original books. And we’ll start like we always do, with our seven-word summary.
[Seven-Word Summary music plays]
Eric: Fudge…
Micah: … makes…
Laura: … disastrous…
Andrew: … decisions…
Micah: … about…
Eric: … Lord…
Laura: … Voldemort.
Andrew: Per. Fect.
Laura: A plus. Outstanding, y’all!
Eric: We completed a sentence!
Laura: Very handily, by the way.
Chapter by Chapter: Main Discussion
Eric: So we proceed on the way to Dumbledore’s office, where Harry is despondent. He’s out of it. He’s having to sort of relive… he knows he’s going to be asked to relive the events of the graveyard formally, once he gets up to Dumbledore’s office. And he’s in really bad shape, and we sympathize, and I think we’ll talk about Dumbledore sympathizing, but for me, especially having read this series, you know that it is imperative that as soon as possible, Dumbledore gets the information out of Harry. Dumbledore has not been able to… all this stuff’s been going on with Barty Crouch, Jr.; Dumbledore has not been able to learn what exactly happened in the graveyard, and he’s got a whole organization in the Order of the Phoenix to run, and so he needs to know as soon as possible all the information so that he can act on it. But it means asking Harry to relive his trauma, and not even after a good night’s sleep; he has to do it now.
Andrew: Yeah, it makes sense why Dumbledore is pushing him. He was just completely caught off guard. He doesn’t know what Voldemort is going to do next. He doesn’t know if Voldemort is going to be making a move sooner rather than later, so he needs this information ASAP. And then there’s poor Harry, who… the first words out of his mouth in this chapter are asking where Cedric’s parents are. That’s all he’s thinking about right now, and I found that so sweet.
Laura: Yeah. Something I want us to watch throughout this discussion is Fawkes, because I know we talked about this when we covered Priori Incantatem, but I really think that Fawkes knows what happened in the graveyard. So here at the top of the chapter, he flies to Harry, lands on his knee, and just stares at him peacefully, and there are a couple of other beats throughout this chapter where Fawkes does things to connect with Harry and I think give Harry some courage to be able to relive everything he has to relive. And I think it’s further evidence that there’s some kind of connection that Fawkes has to what happened in the graveyard, on the basis of Harry’s and Voldemort’s wands having Fawkes’s feathers as wand cores, so I just want to watch it.
Eric: What’s funny about that is Fawkes withholds his tears that would heal Harry until after Harry has confessed. It’s almost like, “You don’t get to be well until you get through this.” [laughs]
Micah: What a tease.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: He’s sitting right on him! And it’s not until after Harry has relived anything that he flies down and just cries on his ankle and fixes it. But Harry is limping; he’s like, “I’m in real bad shape, Fawkes,” and Fawkes’s presence is heartening to him, but it’s like, just heal the kid!
Micah: I think Fawkes was just happy to see Harry, and it probably felt nice to have something to do instead of just sit on the perch all day.
Eric: Oh my God, he’s always on that perch.
Andrew: Watching Dumbledore do a whole lot of nothing. Gossip with the portraits.
[Eric and Micah laugh]
Laura: Until it’s his time to burst into flames and do it all over again.
Eric: Yeah. Oh, the humdrum of a repetitious life. We’re nothing if not pattern followers. So what Dumbledore says to Harry to kick things off… and there’s a touching moment we’ll get to with Sirius, because Sirius Black in human form is up there and is able to lend his support as well. What Dumbledore says to Harry to get him to start talking is, “If I thought I could help you by putting you into an enchanted sleep and allowing you to postpone the moment when you would have to think about what has happened tonight, I would do it. But I know better. Numbing the pain for a while will make it worse when you finally feel it. You have shown bravery beyond anything I could have expected of you. I ask you to demonstrate your courage one more time. I ask you to tell us what happened.” Andrew, I don’t know why I didn’t go to you for that Dumbledore impersonation.
Andrew: I know, I was ready to go. [tearfully] It’s fine. It’s okay. [sniffs]
[Laura laughs]
Eric: I’m sorry, I’m sorry, I’m sorry. We’ll quote him again, and we’ll get you the next one. But do we find this to be very sincere and genuine for Dumbledore? The way he put it is kind of nice.
Andrew: Yeah, he understands what Harry is feeling right now. And we were just talking about how time is of the essence, so he has a delicate line to walk right now. He has to be aware of what Harry is going through, but at the same time, he has to know what happened and act on that information. And I think a part of this paragraph is a good lesson in whether you should be holding in your feelings or letting them out. It’s going to help Harry, ultimately, to let his feelings out now and get it all off his chest.
Eric: Do we agree with that premise that holding something in, to your point, Andrew, will make it worse when you finally feel it? Because I think I’ve been in situations where it felt like at least pushing something all off wasn’t immediately detrimental. There are so many things only that you can deal with in a certain amount of time.
Laura: I think it depends on the severity and the urgency. And I feel like here we’re talking about trauma, but we’re also talking about the fact that Harry bore witness to a crime, and an officer of the law I am not, but an avid watcher of Law and Order: SVU I am.
Eric: Laura, you’re pretty much a cop.
Laura: Ooh.
Eric: I mean, an expert.
Micah: Unsolved Mysteries right in your backyard, just a couple of seasons ago.
Laura: Exactly. So what I’m saying is with this kind of thing, it tends to be really imperative to get statements from people as soon as possible, because memory is a fickle thing. Anytime you remember something, you’re not actually remembering the thing; you’re just remembering the last time you remembered it. So if Harry doesn’t tell this story now, there’s a potential that he can lose some of the details, and every detail of what happened to him is super imperative.
Eric: Maybe that’s why Fawkes refrains from healing Harry, because the pain in his leg is going to keep him going or propel him through. It’s why they don’t give him the potion for dreamless sleep until afterwards; it would be too easy to retreat from this moment. But like you’re saying, Laura, I didn’t even think of it. It’s almost like 12 Angry Men, any such thing, witness testimony is going to be less reliable the longer it goes.
Micah: Definitely. But this is the same person, though, that even though in this moment comes across as a very caring individual, ignores Harry for most of the entire next book. So it’s somewhat ironic in this moment that he’s telling him to feel his feelings and to get it all out there, because truthfully, Dumbledore needs the information. That’s what it comes down to. Does he care about Harry? I think he does, but he then turns around and for an entire term chooses to ignore this poor boy and not give him any attention after having gone through this trauma at the end of the fourth year.
Eric: That’s true. He kind of, after this tender, tender moment, peaces the F out for an entire year.
Andrew: Maybe he’s thinking, “All right, Sirius is closer to Harry now, so maybe he’s kind of the replacement.” He’s the sub for Dumbledore while Dumbledore is trying to work out the mystery.
Micah: But Dumbledore actively ignores Harry, and I know we’ll talk more about it when we do our Order of the Phoenix reread. So I, to some extent, think that Dumbledore selfishly reserves this moment for himself and Sirius in part. If he knew that Harry only had one go in him to retell what had happened, shouldn’t more witnesses have been present?
Eric: You think like Fudge?
Micah: Well, we see how Fudge reacts [laughs] later on in this chapter.
Eric: I know; when you say more witnesses, who do you think? Who should who else should hear this first go-around?
Micah: I was going to bring this up when we talk about Fudge, but what about other Ministry officials? What about Aurors?
Andrew: Well, who’s there now? I think we still have to keep in mind that we’re in this chaotic situation not long after Harry brought back Cedric. So who is around to hear this information? I agree, maybe another professor, because at least they’re on site.
Eric: True. Well, you know how in Book 6 when they’re going into memories, Dumbledore has that very self-aggrandizing comment, like, “It’s cool; you’re going to see this one in HD because it’s my memory, which tends to be better than all the other memories. It won’t be foggy. It won’t be anything.” Dumbledore is a good receptacle for this story. He’s the man who’s foremost involved in the destruction of Voldemort efforts, he’s the leader of the Order of the Phoenix, the only one who’s going to actually get this done for everybody. But also, he has a decent… his memory… he’s fit. He’s mentally fit. And so if there are only two witnesses, one of them is going to be Dumbledore. I think that’s okay, because he’ll take that information that he gets and run with it. But the other witness here is Sirius Black, who demonstrates an uncharacteristic excellence in godfathering. He gets a lot of flack directed at him from us and Molly in the next book specifically, but in this moment, Sirius is perfect. He is putting his hand on Harry’s shoulder, and he’s asking, “Dumbledore, can’t this wait? Can’t we get Harry some rest?” He is an active participant in the conversation, listening to Harry tell this harrowing story. He’s just there for him. And I’ve got to really hand it to Sirius for being there, caring so much, and I just really loved reading about this, because Sirius and Harry, unfortunately, get so few interactions even over the course of the next year.
Andrew: Yeah, and if Harry weren’t so traumatized right now, he may also really appreciate the fact that Sirius is on site in human form at Hogwarts. That’s a big deal for him to be back at Hogwarts, as is emphasized later in this chapter.
Eric: And got to give credit to Dumbledore a little bit, too, for first of all being comfortable enough with Sirius to have him here, but almost intentionally having a family member of Harry’s here. It’s not the Dursleys, but it’s also not Molly; it is a proper straight godfather/godchild. It’s just what you would want in these types of situations of reliving… you would want the closest family member to be there.
Micah: Exactly. It’s what you would expect in this moment.
Andrew: And Brock, who’s listening live on our Patreon right now, says, “I’m not usually a Sirius stan, but this is his best scene in the series. MVP.” Wow. Wanted to get that in there for the Sirius super fan on the panel, Eric.
Eric: That heartens me. Thank you. And I think that the fifth book stuff is character assassination.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Let’s remember this moment in time for Sirius.
Laura: Hey, literally and metaphorically.
Andrew: Yikes. Too soon, Laura.
Laura: [laughs] Sorry.
Micah: I don’t know if Eric can go on with the discussion now.
Andrew: That took me a second.
Eric: I’m going to need a minute.
Andrew: [laughs] Well, while you’re recuperating, I want to add that Dumbledore has what Harry suspects is a gleam of triumph in his eye after Harry recounts Voldemort using his blood because that would make him, Voldemort, stronger, and Voldemort was able to touch his face. And this is a big deal; there was a lot of debate about the gleam of triumph. I was excited reading this little note in the book because of how this was looked at prior to the final book coming out, that gleam of triumph moment.
Eric: Oh, yeah. As you say, it launched a thousand theories.
Andrew: Yeah, it really did.
Eric: And it isn’t until later we find out exactly what it is, but it’s fascinating because as Harry is reliving this, he’s still very acute. He needs to be; he needs to recognize this gleam of triumph because no one else can tell us that it has happened, but it’s fun to see that Dumbledore sometimes can’t even contain his excitement. It’s so uncharacteristic for Dumbledore to be excited about something that happened to Harry during his traumatic experience, but that little glint there shows you that there’s more coming and there is hope.
Andrew: And let’s Max that, please. Let’s get that gleam of triumph captured in the Harry Potter TV series.
Laura: Please.
[“Max that” sound effect plays]
Eric: Let’s get a consistent Dumbledore through all the years. Well, we’re going to continue our discussion for this chapter, but first, let’s hear from our sponsors.
[Ad break]
Eric: We just talked about the gleam of triumph in Dumbledore’s eye. This chapter is also the first time that we learn that Harry and Voldemort’s wand not only has the same core – we’ve known phoenix feather – but that the phoenix feather core comes from Fawkes specifically, and this is a revelation. I don’t think we’ve ever really dove into about how it is that this could have come to be, but there is a quote here. Who would like to read it from the book?
Andrew: Me, me, me! I put on my Dumbledore glasses.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: Oh, yes! Yes, of course, of course. You’ve got this.
Andrew: My half-moon spectacles.
Eric: Okay.
Andrew: “‘Exactly,’ said Dumbledore. ‘Harry’s wand and Voldemort’s wand share cores. Each of them contains a feather from the tail of the same phoenix. This phoenix, in fact.’
‘My wand’s feather came from Fawkes?’ Harry said, amazed.
‘Yes. Mr. Ollivander wrote to tell me you had bought the second wand, the moment you left his shop four years ago.'”
Micah: So Ollivander is Dumbledore’s pawn. That’s what I took away from this.
Andrew: I love that Ollivander wrote to him straight away.
Eric: That’s his bestie! He’s got him on speed dial.
Andrew: “Dumbledore, you’ll never guess what happened at the shop today.”
Laura: I’m sure the reason for that was because Ollivander knew what that meant, right? And so him writing to Dumbledore wasn’t like, “Hey, fun fact: I just sold Fawkes’s other wand.” It’s like, “Hey, so guess who got that wand? Yeah, Harry Potter. Kid that the other owner of the brother wand tried to kill. That probably means something, D.”
Andrew: [imitating Ollivander] “Very curious.”
Eric: What’s funny is because they know that wands that are brothers won’t work properly against each other, but these are literally the two people that are the most destined to fight each other, is Voldemort and Harry. So I wonder if Ollivander was like, “Hey, just so you know, there’s a no return policy, and there’s no warranty on this. These wands are not going to work together, and I’m not going to be around when it goes down.”
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: And Dumbledore is like, “Oh, don’t worry about it.” But really, why Fawkes? It’s an interesting choice. There’s only one phoenix that we ever hear about in this whole series, and it’s Fawkes. Apart from being just another layer in which Harry and Voldemort are connected, why or how do you think this was the choice that was made for the series by the author? Does it seem realistic if phoenixes are so rare for them to only offer two of their tail feathers? Certainly, if phoenixes have a renewable source of… they keep growing back, you could supply infinite phoenix tail feathers to Ollivander for wands.
Andrew: Is it for sure that Fawkes has only ever supplied two? I mean, they share the same wand core, but does that mean that Fawkes hasn’t given out any others?
Eric: The line from Ollivander I’m hearing in the movie is [imitating Ollivander] “The phoenix whose tail feather resides in your wand gave another feather, just one other.”
Andrew: [laughs] Ah, of course, right. Okay.
Laura: I was wondering if Dumbledore donated them.
Micah: They’re just all over the floor in his office?
Eric: That’s chaos. That is utter chaos, for him to like, “Here you go; don’t tell me what happens with it. This will be fun.”
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Laura: Birds do shed feathers, though, so I could see maybe Fawkes was molting or something, and Dumbledore just grabbed a couple.
Eric: Dumbledore was like, “What am I going to do with all these damn feathers? I know! Bet that Garrick would like these.”
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: Could it be customary to donate a couple of the feathers to the local wand shop? As to how these two ended up with the Fawkes ones… destiny? The prophecy? Trelawney might have something to say about this.
Eric: Yeah, I just find it so interesting. It doesn’t come up… it rarely is… what are the circumstances by which Dumbledore specifically would have loaned Fawkes specifically for two specific feathers that go to these two specific…? It’s just interesting, especially because Fantastic Beasts, the film franchise, expands on the Dumbledore/phoenix backstory by saying essentially that the Dumbledore family has a special link to them, and we’ve known this for a while; not only does Dumbledore and Fawkes’s relationship seem extra magical, but Dumbledore’s Patronus is a phoenix, and often they’re seen together in battle. It’s this whole thing, and so I just find it interesting because maybe there was something else that we were going to get, either between Dumbledore and Fawkes and Harry, or Dumbledore and Fawkes and anybody, because he was telling Newt all about the phoenix, and that seemed like it might come to something else in the future.
Micah: It’s also possible that Fawkes was a wild phoenix at the time that these feathers were taken by Ollivander. I’m sure Ollivander goes out in the field to get some of his wand cores from time to time, and his wand wood from time to time. He seems like a self-sufficient individual. I know it’s easier to think that Dumbledore handed them over to him, or owled them over to him, but we don’t see Fawkes with Dumbledore around the time when Tom Riddle would have been getting his wand, at least in Fantastic Beasts.
Eric: Right, and that’s in the ’30s. That would have been the early ’30s even, probably the next movie era, had there been… I mean, we know the series is just [imitating David Yates] “parked” right now.
Micah: It’s over. [laughs]
Eric: But yeah, very interesting experience for sure.
Laura: With things like this where there’s not a clear answer, I almost wonder if there’s more of a larger cosmic answer, and I’m thinking about the centaurs and how it seems like they have a higher level view into the fate of the universe and why certain things happen the way they do than wizards do. So I honestly wonder if Harry could theoretically take this question to Firenze and be like, “Was this all fate? Was it part of a larger plan, if you will, for us to end up with these two wand cores?” Because there really is no resolution to this.
Eric: Right. We know that in general, phoenix song strikes fear into the hearts of the immoral, and emboldens Harry every time he sees him, but that almost seems like it would work against Tom Riddle, who at that age we’re told, supposedly, had a choice to go evil or not. So it’s just an interesting thing that was interesting to focus on. But Harry is able to wrap up his tale, and he finally gets what he thinks is going to be the reprieve, because they go down to the hospital wing, where we’re met with Harry’s other parental figure, Molly Weasley, who comes running up to them and is immediately kept at bay. If you thought Dumbledore facing off against Voldemort in the next book is hot, watch this Dumbledore stop Molly from asking any questions and go, “No, no, no. He needs rest.” Because she wants to know… well, she just wants to to hold Harry, I think, and Dumbledore kind of overreacts to her and says, “No questions, please,” and she immediately goes, “Didn’t you hear, guys? No questions!” almost as a… what’s the word? She just reacts to defensively, almost, but ignoring that it’s kind of an affront to her that anything even needed to be said.
Laura: She’s deflecting.
Eric: Deflecting! There it is.
Laura: Yeah, 100%
Andrew: I think he anticipated Molly’s reaction correctly. She is a mother to him. She’s going to have a lot of questions; she’s naturally going to want to ask them immediately. So I really like Dumbledore taking charge here and saying, “Please, no questions right now. He’s already been through a lot. He’s just told the story to me, and we’ll get the information to you, but now just let him rest.” I mean, we were talking earlier about Sirius being a good father figure here. I think Dumbledore is an excellent father figure throughout this chapter.
Eric: It is interesting, though, to jump from Sirius, who we can praise for his role, and really to Molly, who… I think that the inclusion of both of these parental figures in this chapter is no coincidence. I think that it excellently foreshadows… I know they’re kind of rivals in the next book, Molly and Sirius, for Harry’s parental guardianship, but they both do genuinely care about Harry, and that’s clear in this chapter. Even before Harry lays down in the hospital bed, Molly is smoothing it unnecessarily; that’s the quote from the book. So they both just deeply care about Harry, and that’s good. That’s good to have. Like I said, in these moments where you’re having to recover from this huge trauma, it’s really lovely to have people who care about you by your side.
Micah: And it’s something that Harry has not really experienced in his life growing up with the Dursleys. I like the connection here that you make to Order of the Phoenix and how we see both Sirius and Molly care for him in their own very distinct ways in the fifth book.
Eric: So I think it’s time to talk about the political career of one Cornelius Oswald Fudge, which in the document I’ve titled “Onward to Hell, Complete with a Hand Basket.” It just goes awfully wrong. Harry finally gets his potion, he’s being put into a dreamless sleep, but it’s short lived. Unfortunately, Harry wakes to loud voices and McGonagall and Fudge burst in; Dumbledore comes in. What has happened is that Fudge, in his infinite wisdom, brought a Dementor with him into the castle to meet with Barty Crouch, Jr., ostensibly for protection, by the way. Ostensibly for Fudge’s own protection. And I think that’s probably right, but not in the way we think. As soon as the Dementor enters the room, it immediately goes over to Barty Crouch, Jr. and performs the Dementor’s Kiss, sucking his soul out through his mouth, the book says. It’s just awful. So there’s a lot going on here. First and foremost, what do we think of Fudge bringing the Dementor with him to interrogate a witness? Kind of unusual, wouldn’t we say?
Micah: Highly suspicious. On some end, Fudge needs a Dementor to confront a subdued Barty Crouch, Jr.? It’s not like Barty Crouch is just hanging out with a wand and able to react to Fudge in any way he sees fit; he is definitely restricted in some way. And I’m really surprised that he doesn’t alert anybody from the Ministry. There isn’t an Auror available to come to Hogwarts? Presumably, the Dementor is at Azkaban and has to travel from however far that is away to come to Hogwarts.
Eric: Oh, God.
Micah: This isn’t year three where they’re all just casually hanging out around the grounds.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Micah: So I think if Fudge was accountable to anyone, this would have been a serious dereliction of duty.
Eric: My God.
Micah: He’s taking the law into his own hands here. Who knows if he actually thinks that the Dementor is going to perform the Kiss, but the fact that he was so ignorant of this… and this speaks to who he is as a character; it speaks to his name origin of “Fudge” and just ambiguity and faking a lot of things as he goes about his career. So I just thought this whole thing, reading it back, would never fly in today’s day and age.
Laura: No. It is fishy, and I think you’re right, Micah: At best, Fudge is just incompetent and in way over his head. At worst, he intentionally did this, because we have to remember the Triwizard Tournament is a Ministry-sanctioned event, and all of this happened under the Ministry’s nose. We can’t forget that we’re not just talking about the return of Voldemort; we’re talking about every suspicious thing that has been happening all year that Fudge is well aware of, by the way. The disappearance of Bertha Jorkins, Crouch Senior suddenly becoming too ill to come to work and now nobody can find him, etc., etc. He’s turned a blind eye to all of it, and I think he’s probably afraid of being found out.
Eric: He can’t handle the truth. His immediate instinct is to suppress the truth, which has already gotten out. I think that the biggest takeaway… I love the idea that Fudge… that it would have taken some time to get a Dementor. That’s a great point; I never thought about that. They aren’t just lingering on the grounds. There should be an Auror. It’s the Triwizard Tournament; you never know what’s going to happen. There should be some capable adult wizards. And to your point, Micah, he is subdued. Dumbledore himself Summoned those ropes that are now binding him. Barty Crouch, Jr. couldn’t be more unarmed. And so not only does this serve to underscore how not in control of the Dementors a human can be, but just how Fudge is not on the right side of this in any way or manner of speaking.
Andrew: He fudged a witness interview and then doesn’t believe Harry and Dumbledore. I mean, you would think that somebody in their right mind would be more inclined to believe Harry and Dumbledore after just destroying – accidentally, allegedly – their key witness. I mean, there might be a crackpot theory here that he purposely brought the Dementor in to ruin BCJ’s mind so that he could build a stronger case against Dumbledore and Harry claiming that Voldemort was back.
Eric: I don’t even think it’s a crackpot thing.
Laura: No.
Eric: I think that’s entirely plausible. It really… Dumbledore, even in conversation in this chapter, is giving him the benefit of the doubt, but it’s almost like side eye at the same time, where he’s like, “Well, Cornelius, I’m not against you; I’m against Voldemort. As long as you’re against Voldemort, we’re on the same side, right? Right? Right?” And Fudge is just going, “Absolutely! This is just awful!” It just is crazy.
Micah: He’s outnumbered in that room, though, as well, and I think that pressure starts to build on him a little bit. But I agree, Laura, he’s trying to cover his own ass here, and in doing so, just sets in motion a sequence of events that ultimately is his own undoing.
Eric: It really is the choice between what is right and what is easy here, in a way. It would be very convenient for Fudge to pretend that nothing happened, sweep it all under the rug – which is exactly what he does – refuses to even get testimony from Barty Crouch, Jr. He doesn’t want to hear it. He doesn’t want to believe it. He doesn’t want to have to deal with it, but that’s distinctly not what is correct or right to be doing. A murder has been committed. He’s causing so much trouble that – Micah, to your point – will come back and bite him in the ass, but also the wizarding world, which rely on its leader for the truth so that they can accurately guard and take steps to prevent… prevention is huge. Awareness is the number one step. I’m getting flashbacks to the COVID quarantine area, where information was crucial that we should have had to be able to protect ourselves and weren’t being given it from the top. Fudge not only is destroying his own future, but the future of so many innocent people by choosing what is easy.
Laura: Yeah, and I think there’s an interesting parallel there to Barty Crouch, Sr. as well. He totally throws his son under the bus to save his own political optics, and in the end, he jailbreaks his son out of Azkaban. He knows his son is dangerous and a supporter of Voldemort, and knows what the consequences could be, but he does it anyway because it was the easiest thing to do to I guess bring peace to his wife in her dying days. So it’s just very interesting to see the parallels in these political leaders in the wizarding world.
Eric: What’s really heartening to see is that every person in the room that’s witnessing this absolute catastrophe – this horror show, this insane moment – every single person comes forward and attempts to give more evidence and actually support Dumbledore and Harry. This isn’t right now a Dumbledore versus Fudge situation; this is Fudge versus the truth that everyone is telling him. And it’s really important, I think, to stress how many people are attempting to tell the truth, and Fudge is not hearing it. Fudge is choosing to believe that Harry is unstable. He says Barty Crouch, Jr. is a maniac; that’s why he did everything, not because he’s a Death Eater, because he’s a maniac! And it’s just very easy to blame someone’s mental health instead of… there are serious issues you’ve overlooked as minister.
Andrew: And speaking of mental health, imagine what Harry is going through right now. He just experienced this traumatic event, he’s trying to tell the truth, get it all off his chest, and the Minister of Magic is not believing him. At least Dumbledore is very firmly on his side here, so that might help him a little bit, but I would be enraged if I were in Harry’s shoes.
Eric: That’s a great point. There’s an excerpt from the book where it’s like, “Harry always assumed Fudge was a little weird or a little incompetent, blustering even,” but here he’s actively choosing to go bad, basically. And yeah, it’s crazy to think somebody that you always thought was aloof and harmless is actually causing the most harm.
Micah: It just goes back to his incompetence as a leader. Even if he were to believe that Voldemort is back, I don’t think he would know what to do in that particular situation, and he is struggling mightily here. He has a track record of sending people to Azkaban, convicting people with no evidence, and this is another one of those situations where he’s essentially sentencing Barty Crouch, Jr. to death without hearing his side of the story, without hearing any other piece of information other than that he was the one responsible for it. So you’d think that in this case, he would get some kind of fair trial; that’s not even afforded to him in this situation.
Laura: Yeah. Again, too. That’s the other thing; he didn’t get a fair trial the first time, either. There’s no due process in the wizarding world.
Micah: Right.
Eric: Why don’t these other characters force Fudge to see the truth? And the reason I ask this… choice is very important, obviously. Choice, free will, very, very important. But there are magical means as close to them as Snape’s pocket that would unequivocally prove that this is not… Fudge wants to turn this into a “He said, he said” thing, but it’s not that at all. There are ways in which either the Pensieve, which is just up in Dumbledore’s office, or Veritaserum… whatever it is, there are means that cannot be faked or fudged, if you will, and they could prove to Fudge beyond a shadow of a doubt. To make it also his choice to completely destroy the wizarding world if he says no, and they’re still trying to reason with him. Why don’t they employ some of these other magical means to undercut his argument further?
Andrew: Well, he is the top dog. Is that what you were going to say, Micah?
Micah: You can’t force someone to believe something that they don’t want to believe. You can’t force them to see something they don’t want to see, and that’s this moment. I mean, I would say, too, isn’t there some sort of magic that can trace back who killed Cedric? Like, what wand was used to use a Killing Curse on this poor boy.
Andrew: Have you heard of Priori Incantatem? [laughs]
Micah: Yeah, something. Fudge is just… he shines through in a really negative way in this chapter in order to set up his role in Order of the Phoenix. That’s what this is all about. This is his setup for how he and the Ministry choose to behave. There’s even mentions of when he talks to Dumbledore about how he’s always let him run his own ship here, hiring werewolves, and that’s to set up Umbridge for Order of the Phoenix.
Eric: Yeah. It’s just crazy to see that Fudge has some intentional ignorance, but an internal logic nevertheless that says, “As long as there is an alternate fact about what happened tonight in the graveyard, as long as there’s a single alternate fact that is more convenient,” that is the one that Fudge is going to latch on to. And Rita Skeeter helped it along; thanks for publishing all that crap over the year and all this other stuff. As long as there’s something for his mind to go to that is easier or more convenient than the truth of Voldemort being back, he’s going to go and he’s going to act on that, much to the suffering of everyone else, the people he’s supposed to be saving as Minister for Magic. So something else happens: Harry warns Fudge directly about Lucius Malfoy, something that is I think… I mean, Fudge has next to no reaction except the name Lucius Malfoy, the fact that Harry just saw him in the graveyard, is told to Fudge, and Fudge is in his state of denial. He says, “No, no, he’s made donations to good causes, whatever…”
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: And now we’re just actively seeing the wall come up. This is the shield that… because Fudge continues to do business with Lucius Malfoy in the next book. On the way to the hearing, Harry meets with Fudge, and Lucius is there, and Fudge continues to be in the… he puts himself and everyone else… the security of the wizarding world is in danger when you have a Death Eater that you’re chums with who’s allowed to still come to the government and work for it.
Andrew: This was one of the most frustrating parts for me reading this, just knowing that Harry truly did just see Lucius and several others. I think he mentioned Macnair as well; he mentioned Avery, Crabbe, Goyle… all these people were actually there, and Fudge is like, “No, no, no, no, no! One’s working for the Ministry; that can’t be true!”
Eric: “La la la la!”
Andrew: Yeah, it’s like, “Oh, really? People can’t be liars? People can’t be double agents?” It’s just so frustrating how Fudge is so in denial.
Eric: You want to know the most frustrating part of that? Is he said these were all Death Eater names that were acquitted 13 years ago, which means there was an accusation. There was an accusation at some point of those Death Eaters, every single one of them being a Death Eater, and they were acquitted. That already speaks to malfeasance; that already speaks to somebody in the Ministry convincing the Ministry that the bad guys are okay. The idea that they were acquitted of being Death Eaters, and Harry just saw them – hello – is bad.
Micah: And I’m sure many of them not just financially support charities, but financially support Fudge, and that could be a big part of this that we just don’t know about.
Andrew: Good point.
Micah: I still can’t believe that this whole situation has played out at Hogwarts, and maybe it’s happening off page, but that there’s no other Ministry officials that are there, that it’s just Fudge himself. And who is he claiming murdered Cedric? Barty Crouch, Jr.? There wasn’t any proof of that. And as we were saying, he doesn’t care much for evidence. But Cedric’s parents, who are they being told murdered their son?
Eric: The thing is, at the end of the day, there’s no accountability for…
Micah: The sphinx?
Eric: [laughs] Right, right. Well, we knew in the Triwizard Tournament that people could die. It’s like, why is this even being held at a school?
Andrew: Fudge’s whole excuse is he was a raving lunatic, BCJ. That’s why he killed Cedric. That’s all. Moving on.
[Ad break]
Eric: Something that shocked the hell out of me in reading this chapter is Snape actually does something incredibly brave, incredibly heroic, therefore justifying the name of Harry’s child one day.
Andrew: Aww.
Eric: Snape comes forward and says, “This is known as the Dark Mark. It’s on my arm. Karkaroff saw it and fled. Every Death Eater has one.” He introduces Fudge for the first time – apparently, this is the best kept secret in all of Death Eater land – that they all have Dark Marks, and Snape rolls up his sleeve and shows it to Fudge, and Fudge still won’t believe. Nice try, Snape, though, because that is amazing. I think that’s a truly heroic moment for Snape.
Laura: I agree.
Micah: I think Voldemort could show up at this moment and Fudge still wouldn’t believe that he’s back.
[Everyone laughs]
Laura: He’d be like, “Ralph Fiennes? What are you doing here?”
Eric: [laughs] “I loved you in In Bruges!”
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: Yeah, it is nice to see… I guess Snape recognizes just the tough situation Dumbledore and Harry are in at this moment that the Minister for Magic is not believing him, so he needs to step up and do something.
Eric: Well, right, and who better than to say the Death Eaters are back than a former Death Eater? And that’s the thing that shocks me the most, is it is the right thing for Snape to do. Snape is literally adding defense to Harry Potter, [laughs] and Dumbledore’s story. Against all of his, I think, natural inclination, Snape is stepping up and doing the right thing here.
Andrew: Michelle, who’s listening live right now, is bringing up a good point: Fudge would be like, “Voldemort had a nose, so that clearly is not Voldemort.”
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: “I don’t know who you brought to this office, but it ain’t Voldy.”
Eric: Then you’ve got to get into the whole fact that Peter Pettigrew is missing a finger and so they couldn’t generate the nose, and it was this whole thing, and he’s like, “Peter Pettigrew, what?”
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: But anyway, once it becomes clear that Fudge will not ever be swayed, Dumbledore is struggling to keep Fudge’s attention. And partly, I think, to get it out there, and partly to display how much, to prove how much Dumbledore has thought about this and planned for this day, he starts to tell Fudge what he must do. And I think it’s reasonable; it comes across as very level-headed. But I wonder if we think maybe either now is not the time, or if Dumbledore goes too far in saying, “Now you need to do this as Minister. You should be alerting the right people. You should be sending envoys to the giants…” “Envoys to the giants?!” Does Dumbledore overstep?
Andrew: I don’t think so. I think he’s learned from the past and he knows Voldemort and the way that he operates, and he wants to get his defense systems up as much as quickly as possible; both sides will want to. So Dumbledore understands that timing is everything, and he has been fearful of Voldemort for a while now returning, so he’s had a lot of time to think this through, and thank God he’s already thought about it, because Fudge is just refusing to follow through with any of these plans that Dumbledore is suggesting. And the giant suggestion, of course, sets up Hagrid’s journey in Book 5. There’s a lot of Book 5 set up in this chapter, which I love.
Eric: Yeah, which is really clever. It also plays into Fudge’s prejudice; his prejudice is now able to come out. He’s like “The giants? We can’t trust them!” Or really talking… I think pure-blood stuff comes up at one point.
Micah: I’m not really sure the hand that Dumbledore is trying to play here. In one vein, I could say that he’s out kicking his coverage a bit. The cart is a little bit before the horse. We know Fudge is in denial, but there had to have been other steps that he could have taken to make him see reason, maybe not in this moment, but certainly later on. So to me, it’s almost like Dumbledore is taunting Fudge. He knows he’s not going to get rid of the Dementors; he just strolled into Hogwarts with one.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: And he’s certainly not about to go and parlay with the giants, as was just brought up. And then he does something that… he’s almost de-pantsing Fudge, in a way, because he starts to call into question his legacy. He says, basically, “You’re either going to be remembered for saving the wizarding world, or destroying it.” And that’s where things, I think, start to really heat up between the two of them and it’s clear that there’s not going to be a reconciliation anytime soon.
Laura: Yeah. I also think Dumbledore might have taken a… I don’t want to say slower approach, because time is of the essence, but he might have taken maybe a more measured approach with Fudge had Fudge not destroyed the only real piece of evidence they have of what happened tonight. So I think Dumbledore is very urgent because the situation is urgent. There’s literally nothing but Harry’s word, and Moody can speak to his experience, but he also wasn’t in the graveyard. So because time is of the essence, I think he kind of has to smack Fudge around a little bit and also impress upon him, “You’re an idiot. Look at everything that has to be done so quickly, because you screwed this up.”
Andrew: Voldemort just blindsided him, basically. He just got his body back, too; I mean, that’s pretty scary in and of itself. He could be running off to the giants right now and trying to get them on his side. Anything is possible right now.
Eric: Yeah, they could be storming Hogwarts tomorrow, or overthrowing the Ministry next week.
Micah: I agree, Laura. I just don’t think in this moment the right audience is present for Dumbledore’s speech.
Eric: You know what I think it is, too, is Fudge is clamming up, in a way. Fudge has long sought advice from Dumbledore about little things; he’s long appreciated Dumbledore’s advice, and so Dumbledore is more apt to give it. But when people panic, they need this level of guidance. When people are in shock, they need to be told, “Proceed to the exit. Remember your training. Remember your experience.” And so maybe Dumbledore supplying very calmly, “This is what you need to do,” isn’t just praying and hoping that Fudge does the right thing here, but is also helping Fudge to get over that initial shock of… you’re right, Andrew; Voldemort is back, that’s huge! That alone is huge, let alone this plot that is multi-tiered and has been in the works for a year is happening. This is the way in which Dumbledore… Fudge needs to be told what to do, always, but especially now.
Andrew: Well, clearly, Fudge’s priorities are out of order. And as if we didn’t talk enough about how Fudge is really just operating strangely here, his parting words are to Harry about his winnings! [laughs]
Eric: I’m glad he didn’t forget!
Andrew: “Cedric is dead, you think Voldemort is back, but let’s not forget about your 1,000 Galleons.” As if Harry gave any crap about that right now.
Eric: No, no. But maybe Fudge is bound by the Goblet of Fire to provide the bag.
Andrew: [laughs] That he listens to. He listens to the Goblet of Fire, but not Dumbledore.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: Fudge would drop dead if he didn’t… yeah. It’s a magically binding goblet; it’s like, “You’d better pay these kids.”
Andrew: If the Goblet of Fire spit out a piece of paper that said Voldemort was back, would Fudge believe the news then?
Eric: That is a good question.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Probably not. He’d be like, “Oh, clearly the crazy fool wrote this under a fifth school!”
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: This does set up Harry giving the money to the twins, which is one of my favorite little surprises, so there’s that. But still, I just can’t believe Fudge would bring that up after all this.
Eric: Yeah. Well, I mean, I think it’s clear he doesn’t want to see Harry anytime soon, so he’s like, “Well, I already see him now. Ordinarily, there would be a ceremony.”
Andrew: [laughs] That’s fair.
Eric: So two final things here: Once Fudge leaves, unfortunately, Dumbledore uses a phrase; he refers to Fudge being short-sighted, and I actually think there’s no better phrase to describe this sort of reaction, right? These actions protect Fudge in the short term, and they have devastating consequences in the long term. So it may be politically convenient for a politician to deny or discredit things that are coming for you – Voldemort is coming for the wizarding world, climate change is coming for our planet – but if they acted now, it would be so much better. If they acted when it was first presented to them, it would be so much better. So it is short-sighted.
Laura: Yeah, that’s a diplomatic term to use for it. I can think of other terms that probably aren’t great for this show, but check out Millennial.
Eric: Coming up in MuggleCast After Dark.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: So lastly, everyone is given instructions of what to do next by Dumbledore, and Harry is put back to sleep. And you’ve just got to love Dumbledore here; these are some great chapters for Dumbledore, puppet master in a good way. And there are some more hints, some more foreshadowing concerning Order of the Phoenix. He talks about getting the “old crowd” back together.
Eric: Foreshadowing alert.
[Foreshadowing sound effect plays]
Eric: But yeah, you know what? Fudge isn’t the only one who needs instruction. This is incredibly useful; it really helps to have a type A personality in the room. [laughs] It really has benefits to really set the board and set the pieces, and everyone has their marching orders. I mean, this is kind of a preview of the Dumbledore we don’t get to see next year because he avoids Harry, but the kind of Dumbledore who’s strategizing and able to send certain pieces… we’ve always referred to him as a chess master; this is him telling the pieces where to go.
Micah: Yeah, and it’s clear that he thought about this probably many times before this particular moment. It’s not like he just spur of the moment said, “Okay, Snape, you go here. Sirius, you go here. Molly, you go…”
Eric: Yeah, “Oh, envoys to the giants would be good.” No, he’s been thinking about this for ages. Well, and it all seems to be based on reason and historical precedent, too, because he says, “The giants were a big problem last time for us.”
Odds & Ends
Eric: So we do have an odd and end to talk to, and it’s very exciting. There’s an extremely tender moment where Harry is about to flip and break down and cry. He is in Molly’s arms, and his breath is hitching and they’re about to cry, but all of a sudden from the other side of the room, there’s a slap, and they look over, and Hermione is just like, “Sorry. Carry on.”
[Buzzing sound effect plays]
[Laura and Micah laugh]
Andrew: Do we hear a little voice too? It’s like, [in a high-pitched voice] “Ahh!”
Eric: We know that it is now time to up our surprisingly low Rita Skeeter spy count.
Andrew: Thank goodness.
Laura: To what?
Eric: Do we have a sound effect?
Andrew: That was it, the buzzing. [laughs]
Eric: Oh, okay. Well, so the Rita Skeeter spy count now goes to seven, where Rita has been caught red-handed spying. And can you imagine what story would have been printed? Or stories; let’s not say just one. Whose side would it be out on? You know what, when I was reading this and was reminded that Rita Skeeter is here for this conversation, I immediately justified in my mind everything that Hermione does in the next book, because Rita Skeeter cannot be trusted. She has proven that she cannot be trusted with any level of sensitive information. And what do we think is more likely? Do we think that Rita Skeeter would come out against Fudge because he’s very obviously in the wrong here? Or would she continue her line of slandering Harry by talking in advance about what Dumbledore and Harry’s talking points are going to be about Voldemort and undercutting them?
Andrew: The latter. She’s not going to change her position on Harry.
Laura: Yeah. And also bolstering Fudge as well, pointing out that Fudge talks about Hagrid hiring giants and werewolves, and how he bravely stood up to Dumbledore and the Hogwarts mob, all of that crazy…
Eric: The woke Hogwarts mob?
Laura: Yes, all of that rhetoric.
Micah: She knows that she has a reader in Fudge; Fudge all but admits to that in this chapter.
Laura: Yeah.
MVP of the Week
Andrew: Okay, it’s time for MVP of the Week.
[MVP of the Week music plays]
Eric: I’m going to give a rare MVP to Snape for doing the right thing. If Fudge won’t believe the Dark Mark on his own forearm, he’s well and truly lost. And that’s also an active lead that the Minister is not considering; if they can just find Death Eaters by the mark on their arm now that Voldemort is back, that would be huge.
Andrew: I’m going to plus one that one because Snape is also willing to be a double agent, which is very cool. But also, I need to add that Dumbledore is a key player here in orchestrating these plans in very quick order, in the face of Fudge, who is just brushing away all this “Voldemort is back” talk.
Micah: I will give it to the greasiest handshake that ever was.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Laura: Oh, yeah, we didn’t get to touch on that.
Eric: Between Sirius and Snape? They’re forced to shake hands?
Andrew: [imitating Dumbledore] “Shake, you two. Grow up.”
Eric: You just know that they were squeezing really hard.
Laura: Yeah, seeing which one would let go first. [laughs] I’m going to do something that I think is a little shocking for the Dumbledore haters on the panel: I’m going to give it to Dumbledore. I don’t know the last time I gave my MVP of the Week to him, but honestly, chapters like this are when Dumbledore is at his best.
Andrew: If you have any feedback about today’s discussion, you can contact us by emailing or sending a voice memo that’s recorded on your phone to MuggleCast@gmail.com, or you can use our phone number, which is 1-920-3-MUGGLE; that’s 1-920-368-4453. And aww, next week is the final chapter in Goblet of Fire! Chapter 37, “The Beginning.” Can’t believe. [imitating Dumbledore] Another book, gone.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Andrew: And then after that, we’ll do an episode wrapping up the book, and it’ll probably be a Muggle Mail type episode too. And the four of us are also going to be getting together for a podcast industry conference, so we might record something there together. So we’re going to have a couple weeks off from traditional Chapter by Chapter episodes, but then we’ll kick off Order of the Phoenix in September. Perfect. Back to Hogwarts. Well, maybe end of August, early September. I don’t know.
Micah: Choo-choo.
Andrew: Yes, choo-choo, Micah. Choo-choo.
Micah: And the Hogwarts Express… oh, we can talk about that later.
Andrew: And back to Hogwarts.
Micah: Well, the Hogwarts Express is actually coming to New York this year.
Andrew: The train?
Micah: The actual train, yeah.
Andrew: Do they have a train track across the ocean?
Micah: It’s magic, Andrew.
Andrew: That train still runs on rails, last time I checked…
[Micah laughs]
Andrew: … so you’d better go and look and see what they’re actually doing. No, that sounds cool. A Hogwarts Express is going to be in New York? [laughs]
Micah: Grand Central Station.
Andrew: Huh. Interesting. Okay.
Quizzitch
Andrew: Well, now it’s time for everybody’s favorite game show, Quizzitch.
[Quizzitch music plays]
Eric: Last week’s Quizzitch question: What six Death Eater names does Harry give directly to Fudge? The correct answers were Malfoy, Macnair, Avery, Nott, Crabbe, and Goyle. And correct answers were submitted to us by Buff Daddy; Danielle H.; Dumble Hut now has drama squares for 4.99 each; Elizabeth K.; Fudge starts to fudge and fumble his response to Moldy Voldy’s “Did You Miss Me” return; Got a lot of fudge in the trunk…
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: … Kennah and the one where MuggleCast is the only thing keeping me sane through college applications LOL; LC; Minister of Magic Deadpool…. I would watch that.
Laura: Heck yeah.
Eric: … Ogg the former gamekeeper at Hogwarts; The Hufflepuff from Down Under (Australia will win the Olympics, America are screwed); Winky the criminal; You have all been in my podcatcher for 19 years; and You’re a toy for drama, Harry – Dumbledore. Here is next week’s question: What does Harry ask Viktor Krum when they shake hands before going to the Hogwarts Express? Ron asks for his autograph, and Harry asks Viktor something else. I see that already six people have submitted this week’s Quizzitch answer because I put the question in the form this morning instead, so should be a good week next week. Submit your answer to us on the MuggleCast website, MuggleCast.com/Quizzitch, or if you’re on the MuggleCast website, maybe checking out transcripts or the Wall of Fame or any other thing, click on “Quizzitch” from the main nav.
Andrew: We also do have that “Must Listens” page on MuggleCast.com, and I was just perusing it because some people listening live tonight on our Patreon are asking will we also do a Order of the Phoenix movie commentary prior to the Order of the Phoenix Chapter by Chapter reread? And the answer is yes. Before we started this current Goblet of Fire reread, we did a movie commentary, and we hadn’t done Goblet of Fire either. So before we start Order of the Phoenix CBC, we will do an Order of the Phoenix movie commentary.
Eric: And that’s one of the few we haven’t already?
Andrew: Yeah, believe it or not. We’ve done 1, 3, 4, 6, 8, and then Fantastic Beasts 1, 2, and 3. [laughs]
Eric: Okay, that’s why it feels like we’ve done at least ten of them. [laughs]
Andrew: Yeah. So we still need to do Chamber, Order and Deathly Hallows – Part 1.
Eric: Okay.
Andrew: It’s crazy we haven’t done a commentary for all seven movies yet. [laughs]
Eric: It’s just the timing has not been right.
Andrew: Yeah, but here’s an opportunity, so lots of special episodes coming up in the weeks ahead. And don’t forget that we have a new bonus MuggleCast this week, and even if you’re not an Apple Podcasts paid subscriber or patron, you can listen to it. We’re going to be talking about this news about MinaLima not being asked to return to create more illustrated editions of the Harry Potter books after creating three beautiful books. Visit Patreon.com/MuggleCast, and you’ll find the new bonus MuggleCast available for a one time purchase of $3, just like last week’s was as well. Your support goes to running this show, and we are excited to offer this new way to support us in exchange for more MuggleCast. We are an independent podcast, but running a business is expensive and it takes a lot of time and a lot of effort, so you can also help us out by, if you’re an Apple Podcasts user, subscribing to MuggleCast Gold, which gets you ad-free, early access to MuggleCast, plus two bonus MuggleCast installments every month. And then there’s Patreon.com/MuggleCast, and you get all the above benefits, plus our livestreams, our planning docs, a chance to co-host the show one day, a new physical gift every year, a video message from one of the four of us, a monthly Slug Club hangout, and throughout the year, we throw in other surprise benefits. The four of us are going to be getting together in a couple weeks, and we plan to do something special for patrons, so check it all out at Patreon.com/MuggleCast. And lastly, if you enjoy the show and think other Muggles would too, please tell your fellow Harry Potter friends about the show, and we would also appreciate if you helped us spread the word by leaving a review in your favorite podcast app. So with all that wrapped up, thanks, everybody, for listening. We’ll see you next week for the final chapter in Goblet of Fire. I’m Andrew.
Eric: I’m Eric.
Micah: I’m Micah.
Laura: And I’m Laura.
Andrew: Bye, everybody.
Laura: Bye, y’all.