Transcript #448 - MuggleCast

Transcript for MuggleCast Episode #448, Have a Biscuit (OOTP 12, Professor Umbridge)

Show Intro

[Show music plays]

Andrew Sims: Welcome to MuggleCast, your weekly ride into the wizarding world, our first episode of 2020! I’m Andrew.

Eric Scull: I’m Eric.

Micah Tannenbaum: I’m Micah.

Laura Tee: I’m Laura.

Andrew: And we are joined by one of our friends, somebody who’s been in the fandom for a really long time, who has his own Harry Potter fansite, Andy McCray! Hi, Andy.

Andy McCray: Hi, Andrew. Hi, folks. Thanks for having me on.

Andrew: You are down in Australia. We’ve known you for such a long time; we were just talking before the show. We first met in 2005 in person, but that was also the last time. [laughs]

Andy: That is. It was a fly in/fly out visit.

Andrew: Yeah, and then a couple weeks ago on an episode, Eric is reading the Quizzitch answers, and he was like, “Oh, and Andy from Harry Potter Fan Zone,” and we’re like, “Oh, cool! Andy is listening to the show still! That’s awesome.”

[Andy laughs]

Andrew: And then Micah was…

Andy: I’ve been listening the whole time. I love hearing you guys.

Andrew: Oh, good. That’s awesome. That’s awesome. I think we knew that, and then we just… I don’t know; it slipped our minds. But anyway, you’re here now. It’s great to have you on. You have…

Andy: It’s a pleasure to be here.

Andrew: When did you launch Harry Potter Fan Zone?

Andy: So Harry Potter Fan Zone launched in December of 2003 and it was kind of just a school side project, and then I just got so in love with the Harry Potter fandom and the whole website community, and I’ve been doing it ever since.

Andrew: Yeah, very cool. And one of the shining moments in your site’s history, I’m sure, is when J.K. Rowling gave you her fansite award.

Andy: It was totally surreal. I remember waking up and there was an email, and it said, “Check your inbox in a couple of hours; you’re going to get a really nice surprise.” And then I read that I got the fansite award, and then I had to go off to school and sit in exams.

Andrew: [laughs] Be a normal kid.

Andy: I could not concentrate all day.

[Andy and Eric laugh]

Andy: It was like, “Do you people know what’s happening?”

Andrew: Yeah, right. [laughs] “J.K. Rowling recognized my website!” Back in the day on J.K. Rowling’s awesome, original website, every… I don’t know; what was it, month? Two months or so? She would give out a fansite award for a time. What did that entail? Did she send you something physical? Was it a key or… did she give you anything?

Andy: Oh, I wish so. No, it was a little graphic, and then it was some lovely words that she said. She’d said that the site was really insightful, which is something I wish I could get tattooed on my forehead.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Andy: I still have the graphic to this day, and it’s still pride of place on the masthead.

Andrew: That is so cool. She was like, “This is THE Australian Harry Potter fansite,” right?

Andy: She did. And one of the things she said in the message was, “I’m sorry it’s taken me so long to award you this; I had to finish Book 7 first.”

[Everyone laughs]

Andy: Like, “Please, it’s no problem at all!”

Andrew: That’s so cool.

Andy: “Please finish the book; don’t let me hold you up.”

Laura: Priorities.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: Yeah. Was your website traffic just insane after she did that? Do you remember?

Andy: It was, and I think the server crashed the next day, and then it was just sort of like, “Oh, what am I doing here? This is ridiculous.”

Andrew: That’s a good problem to have.

Andy: But I wouldn’t have passed it up for the world. It was incredible.

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: I remember those days of servers crashing.

Andy: It’s because MuggleNet would link something, and it’d be like, “Oh, check out the rest of the gallery at Harry Potter Fan Zone,” and I’d be like, “Oh, we’re in for a…”

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: “Thanks but no thanks for all that traffic.” Good stuff. Well, it’s great to have you on, and on today’s episode, we are going to discuss Chapter 12 of Order of the Phoenix, “Professor Umbridge.” So our Umbridge Suck count is going to skyrocket this week, I think. Did anybody get any fun gifts over the holidays? I’m curious because we did our holiday gift guide.

Laura: I got so much Harry Potter stuff for Christmas and my birthday this year, y’all. I got the first three illustrated editions, which I did not have.

Andrew: Aw, yay!

Andy: Awesome.

Laura: I got a 12-pack of Harry Potter-themed socks.

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: This is kind of a sidebar, because I ran out of socks this year, and my boyfriend went to both of our families and was like, “She needs socks.” So his mom got me socks, and my mom got me socks, so I have a lot of socks now. Half of them are Harry Potter socks. I also got the Lego Knight Bus, so I’m going to be…

Andrew: Oooh.

Andy: Ooh, so did I, Laura.

Laura: Yeah, I’m going to be building that and adding that to my collection. I got… oh my gosh, what else did I get?

Micah: Laura, just quickly, you do know we’re sponsored by Bombas, right? We could have maybe worked something out for you.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Laura: But yeah, that’s just the beginning of it. Pretty much everything was Harry Potter-themed, and I was okay with it.

Andrew: That’s awesome.

Laura: Felt kind of awkward after the latest J.K. Rowling drama, but yeah. [laughs]

Eric: I’ve got to say, my big thing… we did our MuggleCast Secret Santa gift exchange over on the MuggleCast Patrons Facebook group, and I got a really cool piece of art – I dropped it in the show document – from Hannah Howard, my Secret Santa, and she draws people as Famous Witches and Wizards Cards.

Andrew: Ooh!

Eric: So I am really, really happy with it. And she sent a new Gryffindor tie and a new puzzle from New York Puzzle Company. It’s really good when we mention the gifts that we ourselves would love on this show…

Andrew: [laughs] Right, makes it easier.

Eric: … because it really pays untold dividends for us. So I’m really happy with my Harry Potter haul.

Micah: Which puzzle was it, Eric?

Eric: It was the Diagon Alley… Hagrid taking Harry through Diagon Alley, 500 piece puzzle.

Andrew: Oh, that one’s cool.

Micah: I completed that one as well over the holidays.

Eric: Oh, really?

Andrew: Wow.

Micah: I did three puzzles, so clearly I had a lot of time on my hands.

Eric: Oh my God!

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Eric: You were hooked. That’s fantastic.

Micah: Yeah, I basically funded the New York Puzzle Company over the last month.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: So have our listeners. There’s been so much puzzle love; it’s unbelievable. I think we’re single-handedly bringing puzzles back.

Eric: [laughs] It’s a new show tagline for 2020.

Andy: Micah, on your recommendation, I got the Mary Grand-Pré Harry Potter socks that all seven books.

Andrew: Oh, nice.

Andy: And they are wonderful.

Andrew: I recommended on our holiday gift guide episode the Harry Potter spirit jerseys from BoxLunch, and I did ask Santa for that, and I received my Slytherin one, and I’m really happy with it. It looks great, it fits great, and on the inside of the collar, it has the Slytherin traits, which I thought was a really nice touch.

Laura: That’s neat!

Andrew: Yeah, so “Cunning” and whatever the other ones are. “Sexy.” “Podcast superstar.” All those things. Fits me perfectly.

Micah: Are those really Slytherin traits or just things you’d like to aspire to?

Andrew: Aspire to? I don’t know what you’re talking about.

Eric: He’s already there, Micah.

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: I also participated in the Secret Santa with our patrons, and thanks to Nicole, I received two beer mugs that have the MuggleCast logo on them.

Andrew: Perfect.

Micah: And Eric, I know you provided a helping hand here, but these are really cool. I think I posted them up at least on my social media, but we can post them on the MuggleCast Twitter or Instagram. They are really cool; a lot of thought went into those, and I can tell you that they’ve been used. Not going to tell you how many times they’ve been used so far, but they’ve definitely been used.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Micah: And a really great and thoughtful gift. She also sent through a deck of Harry Potter playing cards, so I’ll have to put those to good use as well.

Eric: Shout-out real quick to Brittney for once again running the Secret Santa. It’s a thankless job. Over 100 people participated this year; it was really cool.

Andrew: Very nice. Little announcement before we get to Chapter by Chapter: With the new year, we are going to be moving MuggleCast’s releases to Tuesdays. The reason for this is so we have a little more time to get our ducks in a row and get the episode out to you reliably first thing Tuesday morning, so you’ll know when you wake up – at least in America…

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: … there will be a new episode of MuggleCast waiting for you for your commute or whatever else you’ve got going on that day. So after this episode, I believe – we’ll probably release this one on Monday because everybody is eager for it after us being away for a couple weeks – but henceforth, MuggleCast will be released on Tuesdays. It’s a little sad because we can no longer say MuggleCast Mondays; there’s nice alliteration there. But we just need a little more time.

Laura: It can be Trelawney Tuesdays.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Andrew: Are we calling ourselves Trelawney now? TrelawneyCast?

Laura: TrelawneyCast.

Andrew: Sure. Also a name change.

Laura: [laughs] New year, new us.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: MuggleCast Tuesday. I mean, obviously MuggleCast ends with a T and Tuesday starts with a T.

Eric: Oh, MuggleCastTuesday.

Andrew: It’s all one word now.

Laura: Oh. Yeah.

Andrew: Perfect.

Laura: I love it.

Andrew: [laughs] Crisis averted.

Laura: Wonderful. Well, speaking of “New year, new you,” today’s sponsor is definitely a good way to get your new year started.

[Ad break]

Andrew: Sounds good. Micah, I was just thinking maybe we should do Micah Mondays, where you dance on social media or something. What do you think of that?

Micah: No.

Andrew: Oh, okay.

[Everyone laughs]

Laura: Well, that makes it simple.

Eric: You had so much fun with the takeover for the giveaway. It could be a natural fit.

Andrew: Right, yeah. More of that to entertain the people while they wait for the new episode.

Micah: I’ll do another giveaway if that’s what you want.

[Eric laughs]

Micah: I guess I’m so fortunate…

Andrew: Every Monday? No, not with how you spend. No, no, no.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: Tripling the expectations.

Micah: Oh, come on. We made people’s holidays.

Andrew: I know. I’m completely kidding.

Eric: We’re still getting “Thank you”s from people.

Andrew and Micah: Yeah.

Chapter by Chapter: Seven-Word Summary

Andrew: Okay, it’s time now for Chapter by Chapter. This week we are discussing Order of the Phoenix Chapter 12, “Professor Umbridge,” and we will start with our seven-word summary. And Andy, you can kick it off.

Andy: Okay. Classes…

Eric: … begin…

Andrew: … for…

Micah: … the…

Laura: Ooh, I feel like I have total control over the direction with this right now.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: You do. It’s in the palm of your hand.

Laura: I don’t like it. Classes begin for the… term? Good luck, guys. [laughs]

Andy: … despite…

Eric: Oh, gosh. Okay.

Andrew: Come on, Eric. You got this.

Eric: … attitudes.

Andrew: [laughs] “Despite attitudes.” I was thinking “despite terror”!

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: … afoot.

Laura: I was thinking “despite suckage.”

[Micah laughs]

Eric: Yeah, because definitely the classes don’t go well, do they? But I think Harry’s attitude should be front and center, hence putting it in.

Laura: Yeah, he does have one this chapter for sure.

Eric: Yeah!

Laura: This book, really, but…

Micah: Well, hopefully our discussion is going to be better than our seven-word summary.

[Andrew laughs]

Andy: And Andy was never invited back.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: It’s not your fault!

Micah: No, Andy, you did a good job.

Eric: Actually, your words… yeah, if we rate your words, your words are high on the list, buddy.

[Andy laughs]

Micah: Yeah, absolutely.

Chapter by Chapter: Main Discussion

Micah: So Andrew, let’s just go right to Umbridge. That’s pretty much what we want to do?

Andrew: Yeah, this is a big chapter. There is a lot happening here.

Micah: There really is. And Harry’s troubles continue right at the start of this chapter; he wakes up in the morning, and it’s really a bad day for him throughout. And he interacts with Seamus and… or actually, he doesn’t, because Seamus decides to leave early. Dean tries to help out a little bit, but at a loss for words. And then he finds out from Hermione that Lavender Brown isn’t buying Harry’s story either. So talk about waking up for your first day of classes in your fifth year at Hogwarts, people who you thought were your friends, they’re not buying what you’re selling.

Eric: Who asked Lavender anyway?

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Eric: It’s just so funny. Lavender pre-Half-Blood Prince is way different than Lavender that we know in Half-Blood, when she’s seeking Ron and with Ron and all that. She definitely has her own personality. I’d forgotten that there seems to be some kind of struggle with the whole believing Harry thing this year on her part.

Micah: It’s okay, though, because J.K. Rowling feeds her to Greyback later on in the series.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Wow. You don’t believe Harry? Take this.

[Laura laughs]

Micah: Yeah. And during this discussion, when Hermione is talking about how Lavender doesn’t believe Harry, one of the things that comes up again – and I think it’s one of those prevalent themes throughout the course of this book – is House unity, because Harry talks about how if you’re talking about making friends with the Slytherins, that’s never going to happen. And just want to talk a little bit about that, because Hermione does a couple things in this chapter, and McGonagall kind of gives her kudos at the end that I think are really important, and one of those things is bringing up House unity.

Andrew: Yeah, it’s something that sounds like a really good idea, but for as long as this point system is going to be in place at Hogwarts, it’s never going to happen.

Micah: So you think as long as the Houses are pitted against each other, there’s no real way for them to come together?

Andrew: Yeah, exactly, because they’re always going to get petty over House points. They’re always going to be competing to get those House points. They’re going to be mad when one House gets more points than the other at some point during the week.

Andy: And then what happens with Quidditch? It’s just a friendly fly-along.

Eric: Everybody flies. It’s like doing laps around the pitch.

[Andy and Laura laugh]

Andy: Just every day is training.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew and Laura: Yeah.

Laura: I mean, I think on its face, if we’re talking about House points, it might sound like maybe not the top issue, but when you think about it, it really does permeate the whole culture of the school. I mean, they’ll have double lessons with another House and watch people be awarded House points for getting an answer correct, which seems so foreign to me. We didn’t get anything like that when I was in school. We weren’t rewarded for doing our reading and having the right answer. The reward is the knowledge that you gain from paying attention.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Eric: Knowledge is the currency of school.

Andrew and Laura: Right.

Andrew: There’s seemingly no guidelines for how points are… or for when points are awarded or taken away. That’s really frustrating, because you never know when they’re going to be coming or going.

Eric and Micah: Yeah.

Micah: It’s purely at the discretion of the professor or the prefect or the Head Boy or the Head Girl.

Andrew: Right.

Micah: And who’s to say that they have the right judgment in many cases?

Andrew: Oh, no, they do not.

Eric: I would agree. The infrastructure is just not there to really promote, to really go out, to really allow a lot of unity to happen.

Micah: One other thing that comes up in conversation is that Harry notices Professor Grubbly-Plank is up at the table again, and he’s wondering how long Hagrid is going to be away. And Hermione mentions that perhaps Dumbledore doesn’t want to draw attention to his absence, so instead of saying, “Hey, Hagrid is going to be back on the 12th of March,” he’s allowing him to keep a low profile, which I think is important. And it’s another good observation by Hermione.

Andrew and Laura: Yeah.

Laura: Really, I’ve always felt like the theme of these books is if everybody would just listen to Hermione, things would go a lot more smoothly.

Micah: Absolutely.

Andrew: Harry Potter and Listen to Hermione, the new book from J.K. Rowling.

Eric: Yeah, she has the right take on things. She’s definitely the one between where Harry’s headspace is at in this chapter and where Ron’s headspace is at in this chapter. She’s just the level head who really provides viable takes on what’s going on, and with Umbridge in the previous chapter as well.

Micah: Right.

Andrew: And what is the advantage of not bringing attention to Hagrid’s absence?

Andy: I presumed it was so the Ministry didn’t perhaps cotton on that Hagrid was on secret Dumbledore business.

Laura: Agreed.

Andrew: And maybe we don’t want Umbridge thinking about Hagrid and potentially banning him from the school later on.

Laura: Right, because he’s one of those, as she would call it, nasty half-breeds.

Andrew: Yeah, right.

Micah: Well, we did get a bit of comedy in this chapter, because Fred and George are in it. And one thing that came up earlier on is when they’re leaving the common room, they notice that Fred and George are looking for some test subjects for some of their products…

[Eric laughs]

Micah: … and that doesn’t sit too well with Hermione, and we get this whole confrontation that comes up. And I can understand where Ron is coming from as a brother, not wanting to confront two of his older siblings about what they’re doing, and it made me think, why couldn’t the Head Boy or Head Girl – I’m presuming that there is one in Gryffindor at this time – confront them? Why does it have to be Ron and Hermione, if they really feel that uncomfortable?

Andrew: Right. Well, of course, from a story perspective, it’s just better to see Ron confront his brothers…

Micah: Of course.

Andrew: … and it’s entertaining because we want to see Ron stand up to his brothers, but he can’t. [laughs] I really wish he could have here. It doesn’t seem like that big of an ask. What is he afraid of? His brothers bullying him? Taunting him?

Micah: Probably.

Andrew: This is his role now. Take it into your hands and own it.

Eric: I completely agree, and it’s very clearly wrong. Hermione… there’s really no nuance to that, that Fred and George advertising for test subjects is wrong, especially when they say later in this chapter, when confronted, that they’ll give Ron a discount on the Nosebleed Nougat, and then they reveal that there’s not currently a cure for it, and that you shrivel up and die from blood loss. [laughs] So it feels to me like it’s a completely solid platform. If you’re going to confront your brother, or any of your siblings, make sure that you have the high ground. And in this case, Ron would.

Andy: It’s not exactly a gray area in the rules, is it?

Eric: Yeah, no.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Eric: You can’t do this. This is pretty clearly bad, experimenting.

Andy: Fundamentally wrong.

Eric: Yeah, yeah.

Micah: But it also gives us insight that they believe that their futures lie outside the world of academic achievement, and they don’t have plans to return for their final year at Hogwarts. And this made me think, can we compare this to anything in the real world? And I thought a little bit about athletes who want to go pro early on. And is this a smart decision for Fred and George? Wouldn’t Molly want them to finish up Hogwarts, get a degree… assuming you get a degree when you graduate. And I thought, what about Harry stipulating that part of him giving them the money is that they need to finish out their time at Hogwarts?

Andrew: Yeah. Well, I don’t think Harry is the type of person who would make that type of stipulation. He just wants to see them thrive, and I think he sees that they are very talented people who potentially have a great future in this line of business, so why not give them the money when he doesn’t need it? So no, I don’t think Harry would need to make that stipulation. That said, it’s very disappointing for Molly, I think, that they’re going off on this wicked life doing something else.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Andrew: At least now. I’m sure she would be very proud of them later, when they’re successful as hell.

Eric: Yeah, I mean, I think I’d compare it to getting your GED, or your high school diploma in the States, versus taking the SATs, which are used to get into college, right? You don’t… the SATs were optional, the way that NEWTs seem to be optional, versus just passing. And it’s so interesting because I think this is the first time we hear that year seven is optional to pretty much everybody? We had long heard that there were seven years of Hogwarts, so I guess I just never knew that year seven seems to be a lot of independent study for NEWTs. But the reason it comes up in this chapter is because, of course, this year they’re going to be sitting their OWLs at the end of it, so it’s a nice bookend or punctuation, or looking forward, as far as academics, to have this kind of talk on the first day back.

Andrew: I wouldn’t describe year seven as optional, though. I think they are just going their own way.

Eric: Well, isn’t it?

Andrew: I don’t… is it?

Laura: Well, I mean, by year seven, you’re of age…

Andrew: Oh, yeah.

Laura: … I suppose it can be. Similar to the GED discussion – I mean, this varies depending on the state that you live in here in the States – but there is a certain age that you can opt to stop going to high school and take your GED. And what I find so interesting about this conversation regarding Fred and George’s education is it reminds me a lot of the state of education in this country – I don’t know if it’s similar in Australia, Andy – but they have really, on a state and federal level, eliminated a lot of the programs that would allow people to go into the kinds of trades that Fred and George are interested in, not just joke shops, but I mean things like being small business owners, or going to technical school to learn a trade, or something like that. We sort of have this mill in this country now where we’re trying to push everybody to go to college, and I feel like now at this point – and this is definitely a sidebar – we are seeing the repercussions of forcing everyone to go to college, because not everyone needs to go. And I think it’s actually pretty astute that Fred and George recognize that their career is not going to be defined by their time at Hogwarts, so I’m proud of them.

Andy: Absolutely.

Andrew: Yeah. And this idea, I think when the book was published back in 2003, is more radical than it is now, because even though, to Laura’s point, there is this push to “You’ve got to go to college,” there’s also a large trend in this country of pursuing your passion and pursuing side hustles and just doing what you believe. I mean, back in 2003 I think probably when we were all reading this for the first time, we were like, “Oh, wow, that is wild. There go Fred and George again with their crazy ideas of leaving Hogwarts early.”

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: But now a new reader might be like, “Oh, cool.” Some people in the real world here go off and be Uber drivers or deliver for GrubHub or just find a passion through podcasting and pursue that instead of finishing school.

Micah: How millennial of them.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: Yes.

Laura: [laughs] Thanks for the plug, Micah.

Micah: No problem; happy to oblige. But the reason why I thought about going pro, though, is because a lot of time athletes that are at the college level will go pro early because of financial reasons, right? And the fact that they have the opportunity to earn quite a bit of money if they’re of a certain caliber and are able to sustain at that professional level, and that we know the Weasleys are certainly a family that they don’t seem to have a lot of money, and so that’s just why that particular analogy came to me when I was reading through the chapter.

Andrew: Yeah, it’s a big risk for them and for the family.

Eric: On that point, my big thing here is with the money that they’ve been given, why is it not known…? And Harry has a real opportunity to come forward about this, but nobody betrays anybody. Fred and George don’t betray that Harry gave them the startup money for the joke shop. And so while Ron and Hermione are condemning their whole thing, it’s an open question that gets asked, and Harry does not… he still finds a way to not tell them, and he changes the subject. Why doesn’t he just come clean? Because I think he’d come off…

Micah: I mean, he ducks under the table, though. I mean, not only tries to change the subject. Because his face gets so red, and to me, I don’t think he wants to embarrass Ron, and I think that that is exactly what would happen, because we learned that didn’t they buy Ron a new set of robes over the summer with this money?

Andrew: Which is surprising. This must have… this is a lot of money they have to play around with if they can start buying their brother a new set of robes as well?

Eric: It’s kind of interesting. Well, they saw his dress robes last year. [laughs]

Andy: My feeling is that Harry at all costs does not want Mrs. Weasley to find out, and by extension, as soon as one person finds out, whether that’s Ron or Hermione, that’s going to filter back through to Molly, and that’s what Harry does not want to face at this point.

Laura: Bingo.

Andrew: Right.

Eric: So it’d be a confrontation?

Andrew: Yeah, because then Harry would be blamed for Fred and George going rogue and launching this devil business of theirs.

Eric: Oh, got it. Yeah, that makes sense.

Micah: Now, Cho shows up a little bit later on, and this was just… Ron goes so… I don’t even know how to describe it. Somebody else want to take this?

Eric: Yeah. I feel like Jo Rowling is starting to set up the relationship between Cho and Harry, because that comes to a head during this chapter, so that’s why she shows up. Harry is really touched that Cho made effort to come and see him or come and say hi. He, of course, blunders it right away by asking how her summer went.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Eric: But he’s happy to not be covered in Stinksap at this point. So it’s kind of like… it’s a little would-be meet-cute if it weren’t for the fact that Ron… [sighs] ruins it.

Andrew: But also, the important moment here is Harry reflecting on why Cho came up to Harry when she probably shouldn’t want to see Harry right now, and he’s detecting some feelings from Cho, and that’s exciting.

Laura: Or at the very least that she doesn’t blame him for Cedric’s death.

Andrew and Eric: Yes.

Laura: She’s on his side. She’s not on the side of the Daily Prophet and the Ministry.

Andrew: Yeah. But I think this is one of those situations for Harry, too, where it’s like when you have a crush on somebody, you’re like, “Hmm, why did they make that move just now? What does it mean?” And you start reading into it deeply.

Laura: Right. “So you’re saying there’s a chance?”

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: There’s a chance here. Everything is awful, but there’s a chance with Cho.

Andy: There was a chance.

Eric: But Ron… I mentioned he blunders it; he straight out accuses Cho of not being a real Quidditch fan. There’s a meme on the Internet going around yesterday about not being a real Star Wars fan unless you’ve da-da-da-da…

Andrew: [laughs] Yes. Yeah, good timing.

Eric: This is Ron and Cho; so timely. But this term… I doubt it existed, especially in this context, in 2003, but it definitely exists now. Ron is a gatekeeper. He’s the worst Star Wars fan. He’s the guy going, “I liked it before it was cool,” or “You’re not a real fan because this, this, and this.”

[Micah laughs]

Eric: Now, it turns out Cho has liked her Quidditch team since she was six, but Ron makes it… Ron interrogates her, basically, and Harry even really is rubbed the wrong way by this.

Andrew: People love to brag about how long they’ve been a fan of… you hear this a lot in the real world when it comes to music. Like, “Oh, I was a fan of the band Fun before they blew up with their Some Nights album.”

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: Or I’m sure some people probably did it with Harry Potter too. And it’s just like, can you find other meaning in your life besides bragging about how long you’ve been a fan? [laughs] And Ron is just being petty and silly here.

Micah: Clearly, I’m not a real Harry Potter fan, though, because I started reading after the sixth book came out.

Andrew: Yeah, you’re fake. I don’t even know why we allow you on this podcast.

Micah: Yeah, why’d you let me on the show?

[Everyone laughs]

Laura: There’s also a component of sexism with this kind of gatekeeping as well. It’s something I have experienced as a woman; if I’m interested in a genre of something that tends to be male-dominated – like in this case with Cho, sports – having men come to me and be like, “Oh yeah, well, I’m going to quiz you about all the things about this, just to see if you actually know what you’re talking about.” And that really jumped out at me when rereading this chapter. I was like, “Oh my God, Ron, you’re being the worst right now. Just stop.”

Micah: Yep. And isn’t this also a little bit of an inadvertent wand block on Ron’s part?

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Perfect.

Eric: He’s not being a good wingman, that’s for sure.

Micah: Right. One other thing I wanted to touch on from this was the bandwagon comment, right? We’ve been talking about this, the fact that you just jump on because the team is good, but I thought maybe J.K. Rowling was trying to tell us something more here, because as we’ll see… we saw in the earlier parts of this chapter with Harry’s friends not necessarily believing him, and we’ll see it more throughout the course of this book, where people jump on the Harry and Dumbledore bandwagon, especially once Rita Skeeter’s article comes out, versus maybe people jumping on that Ministry bandwagon.

Eric: I don’t know; it just seems like the term bandwagon, bandwagoners, people who are on it are less informed or are not authentic, being the genuine, true, authentic version of themselves. So I think at least with Dumbledore’s Army, when people switch bandwagons, it’s based on a lot having to do with being well-informed and better informed by Harry, and a lot of the people who joined Dumbledore’s Army later do it out of a real desire to improve their situation, because they understand how useless Umbridge’s classes are.

Andy: Yeah, for sure. And if you want to relate it back to Cho as well, you can look at Cho and Marietta, and that’s kind of the ultimate picking of sides, and you can see the consequences that obviously come from that.

Micah: So now let’s get to the worst day of classes for Harry in quite some time at Hogwarts. He starts things out with History of Magic. And question here was: When was the last time, thinking back to when we were in school, when there was a day of classes or a set of classes that we just couldn’t get through? Maybe we just told the teacher, “Hey, gotta use the restroom,” and then disappeared for the rest of the day. I don’t know.

[Eric laughs]

Micah: Something along those lines. Maybe fake being sick.

Andrew: I definitely would, from time to time, miss a class, particularly in college. I mean, there were some classes, some courses that I just totally gave up on. [laughs] I was like, “F this; I don’t need this anymore.” But actually, in middle school, high school, I was a pretty good boy. I didn’t avoid classes. I just soldiered through them and still did really, really bad, like Spanish; I got a D in that class. Boy, that was bad.

Laura: Why? Why?

Andrew: Why?

Andy: That’s dreadful.

Andrew: Yeah, D for dreadful. Science, too; I just could not. I was just mentally checked out. I was just pleased I didn’t fail, because that meant I would have to do it over again.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Andrew: To me, it was an A.

Eric: Got to know the limits. Yeah, I’ve definitely had those days where you take the hall pass and you just kind of wander a little bit.

Andrew: Right, you just hang out in the bathroom for a half hour.

Eric: I mean, not to… there were people who I guess more intentionally ditched classes, and the teachers knew who those people were. But depending on the day, depending on how much sleep I got the night before, there were classes that I either slept through – overtly head down on desk kind of a thing, and the teacher gave me a side-eye later – or ones where I just was tuning out, or had to get away or go for a walk or stretch to stay awake, because it just happens. You’re 15; you’re 16. Your bodies are changing. Your energy levels are really super important, and it just fluctuates. That’s all it is. It just fluctuates.

Laura: I actually had a teacher in high school who recognized that, Eric, and at the start of our semester, he was like, “Hey, I understand you’re going to be antsy; you’re sitting in a desk all day. So if you need to get up and stretch, or you need to get up and just walk around or go get water, just do it.”

Andrew: Oh, that’s nice.

Eric: Amazing.

Laura: Yeah, and it’s a nice, small touch that recognizes the fact that, “Yeah, you’re teenagers, you’re pent up with energy, and we’re forcing you to sit in a classroom for eight hours a day.”

Eric: And teachers were always a little bit more lenient with first, second, and third period classes, the stuff in the mornings as well, for that same reason. We had to get up at, I don’t know, 6:30 in the morning to catch the bus, so it was kind of nuts.

Andy: Does it count if there was a big news story in the Harry Potter fandom and you wanted to get out of class to post it on a fansite?

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Did that ever happen for you?

Andy: Because this happened many a time.

Andrew: Really?

Eric: How many times? [laughs]

Andy: “What? Book 6 is called Half-Blood Prince? Uh, can I use the bathroom?”

Andrew: “I gotta go.”

Eric: Here’s a question I have relating to Professor Binns, specifically. So Harry, I think, completely sleeps through this class, and Hermione is the only one who’s able to at least fake being interested. But the topic of today’s lecture is giant wars, and given how preoccupied Harry is – he won’t stop saying mean things about Grubbly-Plank – about Hagrid’s absence, shouldn’t this really interest Harry? Because wouldn’t this topic have extreme relevance? We, of course, know Hagrid is with the giants, treating with them because of their in the past gray area alliances with Dark wizards. This seems like it would be the most interesting class to sit in on ever.

Micah: Maybe.

Andrew and Laura: Yeah.

Laura: It made me wish I could switch POVs to Hermione, because I know that he probably said something that indicated some level of foreshadowing about the events of later in the book with Hagrid and Grawp, and I know she was paying attention, so…

Andy: I’ve always taken umbrage, to use that word, with Harry’s reaction to History of Magic, because I feel like as someone coming from the Muggle world, I would be so interested in learning everything I could possibly want to know about it.

Laura: Yeah!

Andrew: I agree.

Andy: Even if it was dry and taught by a ghost that floats through the blackboard, I would still just want to soak it all up, and Harry could not give two hoots.

Andrew: And I think Harry would be interested if it weren’t for, as you say, just how boring Binns is being. And I think we’ve probably all been there, too; we have a class that we might be interested in, but the teacher’s delivery is just… ugh, terrible. It’s like a bad podcast too. Like, “Wow, I’m interested in Harry Potter, but these guys are boring, so I am out.”

Andy: Andrew, tell us when the Chamber of Secrets opened.

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: That probably was his most interesting class.

Eric: Okay, okay, this is definitely second most interesting then.

[Andy and Eric laugh]

Micah: But I think at this point, Harry doesn’t really have any clue where Hagrid is, so maybe if he had an idea, then he would be a bit more interested. He’s also having a really bad day, and it’s about to get a whole lot worse.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Micah: And I do think it’s important to note that Harry really has no classes now that he enjoys, right? We just talked about History of Magic. He’s about to go to Potions, then he has Divination, and then he ends with a class that has really been his bread and butter throughout the course of the series, Defense Against the Dark Arts, and it’s now taught by Umbridge.

Andrew: Right.

Micah: And so think about that. Given his state of mind already, now he’s being put into classes every single day, for the most part, with subjects and teachers that he could care less about and are boring the hell out of him, and call him names in some cases, including Snape, right? He’s talking about the OWLs, and straight up says that some of his students could be classified as being moronic.

Eric: Wow.

Micah: And he asks Harry, when he’s working on the potion later on in the class, and clearly sees that something’s wrong with it, if he can read. And there’s probably a nicer way to go about that than being such a dick, but that’s who Snape is, right?

Andrew: It’s so mean. And when you reread this book, you’re just reminded… or the series, you’re just reminded of how terrible a person Snape is. I’m sorry, but he’s not a good guy. He’s not. He’s done some important things, but he is a terrible, terrible person. You cannot treat children this way.

Eric: Agreed.

Andrew: This hurts them.

Andy: Totally agree.

Micah: And we had this email here from Emily, which actually might slightly disagree with what you said, Andrew.

Andrew: I know. Well…

Micah: Andy, do you want to read it?

Andy: Sure. So Emily says,

“Hey, MuggleCast. Regarding this week’s chapter, I noticed Snape chose the Draught of Peace, a potion to calm anxiety and soothe agitation, as the first potion to teach the students. I think this was intentional on Snape’s part, as he knows many of the students are probably feeling anxious because of all the ongoings with the Ministry, Harry, Cedric, and talk of Lord Voldemort being back. And the potion soothes agitation! It’s exactly what Harry needs right now! It’s the little details like this that prove to me that Snape is well-intentioned and is always trying to help his students and Harry, but unfortunately, can’t stop himself from being a dick in the process.”

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Andrew: This is an interesting observation, but I don’t think Snape was thinking of it that way. Does anyone agree with Emily?

Andy: I don’t want to give Snape credit.

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: Yeah, the thing is, what I love about Snape is he is so many shades of gray. He’s such a nuanced character that I don’t think – and this is kind of speaking of bandwagons – I don’t think that I would feel comfortable jumping on the bandwagon of like, “Ugh, Snape sucks,” or “Oh, Snape is actually a good guy.” I think he absolutely falls in the middle and moves along that spectrum throughout the books. And I think this is just an example of him picking a really difficult potion to start the year off with, as Harry notes in the book, and then using it as an excuse to shame his students for not being better at the subject matter. That said, we also learn that he has really high expectations for his OWL students after the fifth year, so maybe it’s also evidence of him being a good teacher.

Eric: But ultimately, you wouldn’t just put instructions on a faraway blackboard that Harry has to squint and see and expect the entire class to get it. Wouldn’t it be easier, with your hour and a half time, to go step by step on potion-making, as a teacher of potions? I’m thinking of like a Julia Childs cooking show, but… or any cooking show.

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: Wow.

Eric: “First you glaze the turkey, then you set the oven.”

Andrew: Right.

Eric: It’s step by… if Snape was that concerned about Harry missing part B of step 3, he should have brought the whole class to this, because these students are supposed to be learning to make potions. They’re not supposed to be getting made fun of mercilessly when they make accidents. This is about being a student. You’re going to make accidents, okay?

Micah: So I think how you just framed it, though, is in complete contrast to the Defense Against the Dark Arts class and how that starts, right? So Snape has an expectation that he’s been teaching them for four years, that they should be able to follow directions and put together a potion, versus Umbridge’s class, where she’s like, “No, you’ve just had a bunch of kooky teachers over the course of these last four years. We’re going all the way back to basics. You don’t need to know anything practical.” And so Snape, though… it’s hard for me to jump on the bandwagon of him being a good guy, because when you see moments like this, he’s just treating his students like absolute crap, and I think he has a superiority complex in these moments where he’s the teacher, they’re the students, and clearly he knows more than they do. But he does have… I think the one quality I would say that’s good about him as a teacher is, as Laura said, he does expect a certain level of quality from his students and a certain level of performance from them, and if you don’t meet that, then he’s going to call you moron.

Eric: He has a lot of knowledge. We know, especially from the next book as well, he knows potions inside and out. He knew exactly what step Harry got wrong; that’s super impressive. I will never not be impressed by how well Snape knows potions, but his approach is all wrong. I’m sorry. It just is.

Laura: Oh, of course. I am curious to know, though… I mean, we see these books from Harry’s point of view, and clearly, as Emily mentioned in her email, Snape is a dick. There’s no getting around that; he definitely is. But I wonder if Harry always has his perceptions of Snape turned up to a ten, and how that could differ than maybe a third party, outside perspective of the classroom.

Andy: So you think there’s possibly some Snape confirmation bias going on.

Laura: Maybe, yeah.

Eric: You look at a Goyle’s potion – or was it Crabbe’s? – later; they say that it was just so much worse than Harry’s, but yet, Snape goes over to Harry and makes an example out of him, and asks him, “Can you read?” Like, come on. There’s definitely… I think there’s an opportunity for some bias here, but I think on the whole, Harry’s perception of things appears to be pretty accurate, especially that Snape completely disappears his potion and doesn’t even let him turn it in for a B, or if Andrew is taking Spanish, a D grade.

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: But I’m going to… I’ll play devil’s advocate to that, though. And you see this a lot from, let’s say, coaches, right? They ride a certain player really, really hard because they expect a certain level out of that player, and they know that that player is capable of achieving so much more. Maybe it’s Snape saying, “Harry, pay attention to the details. Concentrate. Focus.”

Eric: Interesting.

Laura: And we see him really pushing that later in this book, right?

Eric: Occlumency.

Andrew and Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: I also found it interesting that Snape removes the potion with an Evanesco, because as we learned from Pottermore in the past year or two, that spell was used by students to remove their poo because they would evidently poo on the floor and then just spell it away.

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Micah: Or on themselves.

Andrew: Sure, yeah.

Eric: You guys, why is Pottermore no longer a site? Gold. Comedic gold lived there.

Andrew: [laughs] But I just… Snape surely knows this, so he must also get pleasure out of Harry’s potion going to the same place as where everybody’s poop is.

[Eric laughs]

Micah: Not really sure how to transition off of that, but I’m going to try.

Andrew: There’s no way.

Micah: There is no way. All right, so now it’s time for wands away, books out. Probably the… no, definitely the worst professor to ever teach at Hogwarts.

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: And this was definitely… I know we talked a little bit earlier about how this was the meat of the chapter, but there’s just so much that went on within these pages, and there’s so much subtext to talk about. But I wanted to start by… Umbridge says that the teaching in this subject matter has been rather disrupted and fragmented, to the class, and I don’t think she’s wrong.

Andrew: No.

Micah: She starts out by making this statement that’s actually pretty true.

Andrew: Yeah, yeah.

Laura: Oh, yeah. And I don’t think that it’s unreasonable that, given that we’ve had at this school for the past four years very fragmented Defense Against the Dark Arts teaching, that the Ministry might want to step in and provide some oversight, but they’ve just way overstepped here. Because they’re not actually concerned with these kids’ education; they’re concerned with making sure that these kids stay compliant and don’t try to rise up against the Ministry.

Eric: Right.

Andrew: Yeah, I think – and I’m just thinking of this situation from a parent’s perspective – it’s probably nice to see a Ministry official teaching their students after there was an imposter as the teacher the previous year. I think they want assurances that this position is going to be locked down, that they’re going to have a steady hand in this position, and from the outside, it looks like, “Okay, Umbridge, a Ministry official close to Fudge, sounds good to me.”

Eric: Yep.

Andy: Do you think Dumbledore perhaps has a responsibility to the parents to let them in on the fact that there’s possibly a hunch that this thing might be jinxed and has been for some time?

Andrew: Yes! Yeah.

Andy: People have to be questioning it.

Andrew: But this is something he conveniently lets slide because maybe it’s a little embarrassing; maybe he doesn’t truly believe in the curse; maybe he thinks it’s going to be cracked really soon, once this second Voldemort situation is taken care of.

Laura: Yeah. I mean, as of this point, you have half of the wizarding world refusing to acknowledge that Voldemort is back, so I’m not even sure they’re well-primed to be able to accept something like the Defense Against the Dark Arts position being cursed, especially since it was cursed by Voldemort.

Micah: She goes on to say that “The constant changing of teachers, many of whom do not seem to have followed any Ministry-approved curriculum, has unfortunately resulted in your being far below the standard we would expect to see in your OWL year.” Is there Ministry-approved curriculum? Is all of the curriculum at Hogwarts approved by the Ministry?

Andy: It’s a good question.

Eric: I feel like clearly there are certain subjects where you need to be at a certain… Transfiguration, for instance, which is taught at least the first five years, that you need to be able to be doing more complex transfiguration each year. So I feel like that’s what it is. But the actual teaching of lessons is obviously up to McGonagall, where she wants to start. I feel like, yes, the teachers set their own curriculum in a huge way, but the Ministry surely would provide guidelines.

Andy: So perhaps we can’t give Snape any credit for assigning that potion. Perhaps that’s the OWL year, “This is what you do first up, love it or not.”

Micah: To that point, though, I could understand going back to basics and just doing some introductory lessons to start the year off, but I think taking that approach for the entire year for fifth year students just doesn’t seem right.

Eric: Yeah, that’s a good point.

Andy: One thing that we learn in this chapter is that Umbridge has an unusually short wand, and one of the things that Jo wrote about… one of the better essays she wrote about, rather than the poo room stuff…

[Everyone laughs]

Andy: … is that people that have unusually short wands… or those types of wands will usually select witches or wizards whose character has something lacking.

Andrew: Huh.

Andy: Which is quite an interesting thought.

Micah: That is.

Laura: Yeah, especially considering… have we ever heard of anybody else in the series who’s noted as having an unusually short wand?

Andrew: Hmm. I’m doing some googling.

Laura: I feel like she’s the only one.

Eric: Not wand, but fingers. Both Umbridge and Peter Pettigrew have short fingers, and both of those characters, their lack of magical talent is compensated by basically dirty deeds. So what Umbridge did with the Dementors, what Pettigrew did betraying the Potters to Voldemort. People with a lack of magical talent who are witches and wizards are evil, I guess.

Andrew: I’m looking at a list, and it looks like Umbridge has the shortest in terms of major characters. The second shortest was Sir Cadogan, at nine inches.

Micah: He was also in this chapter. Very brief, but he made an appearance.

Andrew: It’s the chapter of short wands.

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Micah: Umbridge put up the course aims on the blackboard, and whoever put this font in here did a very good job of showing what it probably looked like.

Andrew: Oh, thank you.

Micah: Good job, Andrew.

Andrew: I did something that I never do. It’s a “New year, new me,” that type of thing. I’m actually reading the physical Harry Potter book for this chapter, and I’d forgotten all the fonts that they use for moments like this. And now I’m going to stick with this physical copy, because it’s just way more fun than the ebook.

Eric: The eBook doesn’t contain the fonts?

Andrew: No!

Eric: Does it contain the chapter art?

Andrew: Yes. And by the way, I feel like I would like a short wand. Wouldn’t it just be easier to carry in your pocket?

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: It just seems more efficient. More portable.

Eric: No, you’re right. The 13 and 14 inch wands that we see… if you look at the movies, a lot of the teachers and things have these ridiculous – especially McGonagall – ridiculously long wands. It’s like, where does she store that?

Andrew: No, thank you. Ron’s is 14 inches? Wand number two at least is. Oh my gosh, no thank you.

Laura: It means he has a lot of character. [laughs]

Andrew: Well, actually, he didn’t like it, because wand number three, nine and one quarter.

Eric: Huh.

Andrew: That was Peter Pettigrew’s wand.

Eric: There you go.

Andrew: “A lot of character.”

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Andrew: Also a lot of pain, carrying that thing around. Anyway.

Micah: These course aims are not all that exciting. Just to run through them really quickly, “Understanding the principles underlying defensive magic,” “Learning to recognize situations in which defensive magic can legally be used,” and “Placing the use of defensive magic in a context for practical use.”

Andrew: And how to get a shorter wand. They’re better, y’all.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: The only part of this that interests me is the “legally” aspect. There seems to have been… we obviously touched on this last year by being taught the Unforgivable Curses, but understanding where magic fits in with society and with the laws and rules of society is a useful tactic or thing to know. You don’t need to spend all year on it, but again, figuring out when to use a spell is sort of important, but…

Micah: Right, like when you get attacked by Dementors.

Laura: Exactly.

Andrew: But Hermione notices that there’s a big thing missing here.

Micah: Yeah, she speaks up, and Harry actually notes that it’s the first time, really, that he’s never seen her open up a book in class and be reading and doing what she’s supposed to be doing. She keeps her hand up for quite a long period of time, till the point where the entire class notices what’s going on. And she challenges Umbridge a bit, to which Umbridge responds, “Are you a Ministry-trained educational expert?”

Eric: Is this as bad as “Can you read?”

Micah: Yeah, I think it is, actually.

Andrew: I don’t think it’s as bad, because Harry absolutely can read, whereas Hermione is definitely not a Ministry-trained educational expert.

Eric: Right, but Umbridge knows that. She’s just…

Micah: But it’s rude.

Andrew: Yeah, it’s rude.

Eric: It’s very… it’s a good character moment for Umbridge, because rather than explain what the thinking is or stress that all this care has been put into it, she is going toe-to-toe with a 15-year-old.

Andrew: Yeah, and I don’t actually even believe that the Ministry has these trained educational experts, right? Because…

Laura: Well, I think they have people that they call trained educational experts.

[Eric laughs]

Laura: Whether there’s any actual qualification there is up for debate.

Andrew: But do we believe the Ministry actually sat down and was like, “Okay, what do we actually need to do here for the Defense Against the Dark Arts class at Hogwarts?”

Laura: No.

Andrew: No, yeah. This was probably just Umbridge coming up with this plan to clap back at Harry and Dumbledore during the trial.

Eric: Yeah, absolutely. The Ministry’s sinister agenda to disarm an entire year – or actually, all seven years of students – during this year is very apparent, and it’s just weird because Umbridge wants to come across as everybody’s friend. I think she even said either in this chapter or in the opening speech, “I am your friend.” But she even says, “I do not wish to criticize the way things have been run in this school.” She absolutely does, by the way. [laughs] She even says “extremely dangerous half-breeds” when talking about the previous teachers. She’s just…

Micah: But is she wrong?

Eric: She’s a fake person. That’s the problem that I have. She’s a fake…

Micah: Yeah, of course she’s fake, but is she wrong in saying that they’ve been exposed to extremely dangerous half-breeds?

Andrew: No.

Laura: Yeah, I mean, the thing is, their classes all take place – or at least, Defense Against the Dark Arts takes place – in broad daylight, and during Lupin’s time of the month, he is sequestered to the Shrieking Shack or his office, right? And also, Snape brews him that potion every month, so there’s a lot of context that she’s missing here. And it’s always really interesting to think about these real world comparisons, because I think even on this show, we’ve talked about the comparisons between werewolves and other disenfranchised groups of people, like people with HIV/AIDS. There was a time not so long ago where if you had HIV, you were discriminated against in certain job sectors, in particular teaching, and it was the same thing if you were gay. There were a lot of anti-gay groups out there questioning whether or not a gay person was equipped to teach children safely, and I feel like this is very much more akin to that than it is her being concerned for the safety of the children.

Andrew: Yeah, definitely.

Micah: Yeah, she’s a purely vindictive individual, and we’ll learn a little bit more about her later from information that was on Potter-no-more.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Micah: But she also references the fact that her predecessor performed illegal curses in front of the students, but also on the students. And I think she has more context there than she does into Lupin, because I would assume she knows the history of what happened with Barty Crouch, Jr. and Mad-Eye Moody, just given that she works directly for Fudge. But Parvati raises a really great point about the practical nature of their OWLs, and this goes into how they’re being educated. So are they just expected to show up at the end of this year and perform a spell without having practiced it in any way? What’s the comparison here to, let’s say, the real world?

Andrew: Yeah, I don’t know about a real world comparison, but this is the first major crack in Umbridge’s defense, and you just feel your heart sink for these students. I mean, I’m sure they’re feeling that same way, because knowing that they aren’t going to be able to practice spells in what used to be one of their more fun classes, and then seemingly being set up for failure later in the year, is heartbreaking, especially for those who do believe that Voldemort is back, because you’re seeing a Ministry-approved class suddenly block you from preparing for what lies ahead. They’re actually setting you back.

Eric: Yeah, it’s a huge crack in Umbridge’s thing, the fact that the OWLs will have a practical component, and Umbridge has to tell the whole class that she feels a theoretical knowledge is sufficient, and it’s just clearly not the way the wind is blowing. It’d be like if you’re learning CPR, but… did you guys have to do a First Aid CPR class, and on the dummy?

Andy: Yeah, I had to do that.

Micah: Yes.

Laura: Nope.

Andrew: I didn’t, so no one be alone with me, because you’re going to be in trouble.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: Oh, we did this in high school in health class. They brought in a dummy, because when you’re performing CPR, you obviously need to know where the heart is, and it’s not where you think it is. I mean, it’s not far off, but there’s a very specific you have to find. The sternum… there’s a very specific soft spot on a human body if you’re performing CPR, and the fact of the matter is, if you did this without a dummy, and if you just read where… it’s like the Heimlich Maneuver. You really need to know where on the body this is, and if there’s no practical experience, people are going to die. So I thought that was a good comparison.

Andrew and Micah: Yeah.

Micah: I also thought of comparing it in the wizarding world to potions, right? If you’re showing up to make potions and you’ve only read about how to make it, but you’ve never actually sat down to try and make the potion, but then you’re being tested on how to make it, it would just be probably needing some Evanesco at the end.

Eric: We need a HelloFresh for potions.

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Andrew: Step by step guide.

Micah: That’s why I thought it was just… it seems like Umbridge is setting her students up for failure here, and I think it would be a really bad reflection on her as a teacher if they’re all showing up to their OWLs at the end of this year, and there’s a practical portion of this examination, and none of them know how to cast a Patronus Charm or something to that effect.

Andrew: Yeah, that’s a really great point, and it makes you wonder why Umbridge is okay with that. Maybe she only intended on being here one year. It doesn’t matter how the students do in their OWLs because she’s going to be out of there anyway, and she won’t have to face the music when they do badly and maybe Dumbledore or the Ministry is like, “Hey, why did they do so bad? Weren’t you supposed to fix things? Make things better? Was the imposter better than you? Was the wolf better than you? The werewolf?”

Andy: Though, I think in the end, she just doesn’t care about parent/teacher interviews. She wants to subjugate the students, accelerate her position in the Ministry, and act as Fudge’s mouthpiece.

Eric: Pretty succinctly put.

Andrew: Yeah, I guess. It still doesn’t look good on her, though, if these students are coming out of this course worse off than they previously were.

Micah: True, and it’s also mentioned in her Potter-no-more write-up that she was often passed over for positions of responsibility at Hogwarts, so she really – and I’m assuming that’s prefect, Head Girl, things like that – so she’s probably looking at this as an opportunity to really dig in and give it to Dumbledore and others at Hogwarts.

Andy: Yeah, she’s definitely got a personal vendetta as well.

Eric: So interesting.

Andrew: I like that you just keep saying “Potter-no-more” casually. That should be a new rule on this show. We all just say “Potter-no-more,” not that other word.

Micah: I’m fine with that.

Andrew: Cool. Deal.

Micah: So Umbridge tells the students after this back and forth, “If you are still worried, by all means come and see me outside class hours. If someone is alarming you with fibs about reborn Dark wizards, I would like to hear about it. I am here to help. I am your friend.”

Eric: There it is.

Micah: So this is to your point, Eric, earlier about her just wanting to be all buddy-buddy with the students. Really what she wants is control. She wants knowledge. She wants to keep tabs on what’s going on. She wants to hear about any rumors that may be being spread by students, particularly Harry. And Harry gets into it with her, which I think we were all kind of expecting. In fairness to Harry, look, he’s had a really bad day.

[Eric laughs]

Micah: I know I said that earlier, but just think about the day that he’s gone through since five minutes after waking up, up until this point. And I think, though, he started to talk about something that a lot of the other students were very interested in hearing about, and that’s what happened to Cedric.

Eric: I’m surprised, I guess, that it catches Umbridge so off guard. I mean, clearly she doesn’t have any experience with students and how children can be stubborn, because Harry is a masterclass in that. She does not have a prepared line – even having come from the Ministry, a prepared line – about Cedric Diggory’s death. She’s able to stumble and say, “Oh, it was a tragic accident,” but there’s really no alternative fact here about what happened to him, and it’s a wonderful foothold for Harry’s argument and for the rest of the class to kind of rally around Harry on.

Andrew: Yeah, yeah. It’s a great moment. It feels good to see Harry do this, even though he is getting himself in major trouble. But it does also make me wonder what the official Ministry line is, other than it being a freak accident. Like, what specifics can you give, if any? There aren’t any, but are they making them up?

Eric: It seems easy. You could blame the Triwizard Tournament. The fact that the Triwizard Tournament hasn’t been happening for a thousand years or something crazy at the beginning of Book 4 is because people kept dying, so you could easily blame the maze or the sphinx. Like, “Oh yeah, the sphinx stumped Cedric Diggory to death with its riddle.”

Andrew: Yeah. “Oh, yeah, he was eaten by some shrubbery.”

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Andrew: Or, “Oh yeah, he was Evanesco‘d accidentally when Filch was cleaning up the maze.” [laughs] Give some specific details; they deserve that because one of their fellow students died, and one way to cope with this is to know the truth so they can begin to move on. Because then all these students are probably wondering like, “Well, what did happen? And can that happen to me here at Hogwarts? This place that is a security nightmare?”

[“It’s starting to sound like a security nightmare!” sound effect plays with sirens]

[Eric and Micah laugh]

Andrew: That is the new clip created by our listener Lyndon. Thank you, Lyndon, for that little sound effect thing. [laughs]

Micah: I like that. Yeah, and it’s surprising because this is the moment that gets him in trouble, versus when he says Voldemort’s name, which only got 10 points from Gryffindor, so I mean, I’m just surprised. I would think Voldemort’s name would carry a little bit more cachet than 10 points, but… all good.

Andrew: Yeah. [laughs]

Eric: She’s testing the waters.

Andrew: Well, every time he says it, the points should be doubled, so the first time 10, and then it’s said a second time, right? So that time should have been 20.

Micah: So Harry ends up getting detention, which in the back of my mind I think was Umbridge’s intent all along, and she sends him with a note to go see Professor McGonagall. And upon reading the note, I thought we get what is possibly the best line in the Harry Potter series, when Professor McGonagall says to Harry, “Have a biscuit, Potter.”

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: And it’s just with everything that’s gone on in this chapter, all the mental aggravation that Harry has been put through, it just puts a little bit of levity on the chapter. She’s just like, “Sit down. Relax. Have a cookie.”

Andrew: Yeah. And it’s good to know that somebody is on Harry’s side – a teacher in the school is on Harry’s side – because after how badly his day has went, you don’t expect it to get any better.

Eric: Right. But she’s able to… I think she’s able to break through to him a little bit by stressing how careful Harry has to be. Harry knows that she’s on his side, but she’s also trying to impress upon him the seriousness of his being so bold. And she says words to that effect; she just really… she’s like, “I need you to be way smarter than you are,” basically.

Laura: Yeah, “Pick your battles very carefully.”

Eric: Yep.

Andy: I just love that the biscuit is called a Ginger Newt as well.

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Andrew: Yeah! The second time “Newt” is brought up in this chapter. I think between those two references to the NEWTs and then the Ginger Newt and then J.K. Rowling naming a character Newt, she really loves the word “Newt.”

Andy: I presume that’s a play on Ginger Nut. Is that a biscuit that you have in the States? Or a cookie? The Ginger Nut?

Andrew: No.

Andy: That might be an Aussie/Brit thing.

Laura: We have Ginger Snaps.

Andrew: Yes.

Laura: I wonder if they’re the same thing.

Andy: A Ginger Nut is a biscuit that you might dip in your foreign tea, as it were.

[Eric and Micah laugh]

Laura: Yeah, you could do that with Ginger… I bet they’re the same thing, or at least similar.

Andrew: They look the same. I’m googling.

Micah: What was your reaction while listening when we were talking about foreign tea?

Andy: [laughs] Honestly, I knew straight away, and I thought, “Boy, there’s going to be some emails coming in.”

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: Thank you for not adding to the pile.

Andrew: “These dumb Americans.”

Andy: No, I figured you had it covered.

Andrew: [laughs] We like learning.

Laura: It’s not as bad as reading this chapter for the first time, and from an American perspective, be like, “Why does McGonagall have biscuits in her office?”

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: Was she just at KFC?

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: Was she just at Bojangles? Was she just at Popeye’s? Yeah, that was what I was thinking.

Andrew: Oh my God, yeah. Embarrassingly, even reading this today, I’m not thinking about cookies. I’m thinking about KFC biscuits.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Eric: Southern style.

Andy: So what is the biscuit in the States? Is that what we would call a scone?

Laura and Micah: No.

Andrew: It’s like a little piece of bread.

Eric: It’s salty.

Laura: It’s salty and kind of flaky. You eat… it’s savory.

Andrew: You put butter on it.

Andy: Look, it sounds tasty. If Professor M. offered me one, I’d be into it.

Laura: Oh, heck yeah.

Andrew: We were also talking to Andy about White Claw before the show. So Andy, come over here. We’re going to have some White Claw and American biscuits.

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Eric: We’ll culture you, Andy.

Andy: Sounds wonderful.

Micah: Yeah, so the chapter really wraps with McGonagall giving Harry some important advice to be mindful of his actions, as we just spoke about, because it’s not just like he’s acting out in front of Snape; he’s acting out in front of a professor who has a direct line to the Minister of Magic, and that is a major, major problem. And she does shout out Hermione for being astute and paying attention, which she does all the time anyway, but Hermione is really important, I think, in this chapter, and she shines through at a number of moments. But before we close out the chapter, wanted to talk a little bit about Umbridge. There is quite a write-up – and thanks to Andy for catching this – on her and her family over on Potter-no-more, also known as WizardingWorld.com, just so people can reference it if they want to. And it really dives deep into who she is as a person, as well as her family, and it gives a lot of insight into why she is the way she is, and I encourage listeners to go check it out. We’ll probably bring up a number of these points, though, throughout the course of our discussion of Order of the Phoenix.

Andrew: Guys, you know what I just realized? PotterNoMore.com is available, and I am so buying it right now.

Laura: What?!

Eric: Buy it.

Laura: Do it.

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Laura: Holy cow.

Eric: That is a blatant oversight on everyone.

Andrew: I’m buying it. Nobody beat me to it who’s listening live.

Micah: Andy, can you get the .au version?

Andy: [laughs] Yeah, let’s get all the countries. Who’s getting .nz?

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: I’m going to buy this. I’m just going to… if I can redirect it for free, I’m just going to redirect it to Harry Potter Fan Zone for a little while.

[Everyone laughs]

Andy: That’ll get the servers going again. It’s been 15 years.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Andrew: This is great. I actually would have assumed that Pottermore would have bought PotterNoMore.com. [laughs] I don’t know why, but…

Andy: Are you just getting me a lawsuit, Andrew?

Andrew: [laughs] “We want that domain back.” You know what? No, they bought… they stole HarryPottersHouse.com from me, so I’m taking this and I’ll go to court over this one. If they want this, they can give me back HarryPottersHouse.com.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Andrew: Okay, time for the Umbridge Suck count; we can add a bunch of moments to the tally here. Calling herself the class’s friend; that’s definitely one. That was sickening. Denying Voldemort’s return, saying nothing is out there. And then also, sidebar, just insulting Cedric’s memory by saying that Voldemort did not kill him. I mean, that’s terrible. If Cedric is looking down, I would be really mad that this is how the Ministry is handling this. So that’s three. Saying that they are all safe from any Dark wizard? That is not true at all and very dangerous to say. And then going excessive with the detentions for Harry. As we see in the scene with McGonagall, Harry gets detention every night that week, and she does something really terrible to him in the next chapter that lives with him for the rest of his life. In the Cursed Child, you still see the scars on Harry’s hands, which I was shocked by, that they would… okay, so maybe that’s true, and maybe J.K. Rowling intended those scars to be permanent, but then for the Cursed Child to actually paint them on Harry Potter actor’s hands every night? Like, wow. Talk about detail.

[Eric laughs]

Laura: Yeah, seriously.

Andrew: So that’s five. So one…