Transcript for MuggleCast Episode #680, Harry Potter and the Graveyard of Goods
Show Intro
[Show music plays]
Andrew Sims: Welcome to MuggleCast, your weekly ride into the Wizarding World fandom. I’m Andrew.
Eric Scull: I’m Eric.
Micah Tannenbaum: I’m Micah.
Laura Tee: And I’m Laura.
Andrew: Halloween is upon us, and to celebrate, we have a special episode that we’re calling “Harry Potter and the Graveyard of Goods.”
Laura: Oooh.
Andrew: This is not about canon, though. This is about the numerous official projects by Wizarding World Inc. that have died over the decades.
Eric: Tragic deaths.
Andrew: These have been, you could say, rejected by the Sorting Hat, and mischief was not managed. They were Wingardium let-downs that are now in Diagon Fail-y.
[Everyone laughs]
Laura: “Fail-y.”
Andrew: They were potions gone wrong, and left us disarmed, so we’re going to run through all of these today.
Laura: The Goblet of Fire spit ’em right out.
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: It was like, “Don’t come past that age line.” [laughs]
Andrew: Chewed on ’em for a while and was like, “You know what? Ain’t my thing. Bye.”
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: So we have done many different types of Halloween episodes on MuggleCast over our 19 year history. Micah, do you want to give us a rundown for anybody who might be wanting to keep up the Halloween spirit this week?
Micah: Yeah, why not? I mean, there’s plenty of episodes to go back and give a listen to around the Halloween spooky season, and don’t have to go that much far back than Episode 633, which was last year. We actually did a Quizzitch Live Halloween-edition, and we released it as an episode, so if you want to test your Harry Potter Halloween candy/Lily and James trivia, we highly encourage you to go check out that episode. And then going a little bit further back, Episode 535, “Halloween Extravaganza.” This was in 2021. We talked about whether or not the hosts ever dressed up as a Harry Potter character for Halloween, we invented some of our own wizarding world candy, we discussed which characters would give out the best candy, and we also Potterized some classic Halloween movies, so that was a lot of fun. You could tell we might have been grasping a little bit as with some of the more recent episodes, because we’ve talked about Halloween so much in the Harry Potter series early on in our podcasting days…
Eric: It’s rough.
Micah: … but there’s also Episode 487, “The Scariest Moments in Harry Potter.”
Eric: Oooh.
Micah: Episode 343, which was titled “Fantastic Beasts and the Not 2.” I’m not really sure what that’s a reference to…
Andrew: Me neither.
Micah: … but we talked about some of the key moments that happened on October the 31st in the Harry Potter series; there are quite a few. Going way back to 2008, Episode 161, were there enough traditional Halloween characters in the series, right? Thinking about werewolves and vampires and that sort of thing. And then very, very early on, in 2006 we did Episode 61, which was all about the ghosts in Harry Potter. And there’s probably other episodes – because that’s only just a handful – but a lot of the ones when I was looking back, we were doing Chapter by Chapter, but I’m sure we brought up Halloween. So just look around that October 31 date in the MuggleCast archive.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: But those are some good ones, and we’ll put them in the show notes so it’s easy for folks to just pop over and listen.
Eric: I love our little Time-Turner segment keeping on rolling.
Andrew: And a reminder that the MuggleCast merch store recently opened up. MuggleCastMerch.com is where you can grab brand new, original MuggleCast T-shirts, sweaters, hoodies, hats, and glassware. Actually, all four of us brought some merch today. Laura and I are actually twinsies; we both showed up with the “Security consultant” hat. How’s it feel, Laura, to be a security consultant at Hogwarts?
Laura: Honestly, I feel like I have so much power.
[Micah laughs]
Andrew: I know, right? I need a clipboard.
Eric: Power to affect change.
Laura: I was fully… and see, now you wearing the same hat as me kind of ruins it.
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: But I was going… at some point during the episode, if I was having a disagreement with someone, I was going to be like, “Look at me. I am the security consultant now.”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Micah: We need to get you a clipboard and you’d be all set.
Laura: Honestly, yeah.
Andrew: And then Micah, you’re wearing one of our T-shirts, right?
Micah: I’m wearing my T-shirt, yes. “Choo-choo.”
Andrew: It is the Micah T-shirt, basically. Yeah, it’s got the Hogwarts Express on there. A nice red. Great for the holidays.
Micah: And then the… I like this little MC mic bolt on the side of the sleeve. That’s a really nice touch. And these are very comfortable T-shirts, by the way.
Andrew: Good. And Eric, what did you bring?
Eric: I brought the glassware, the stemless glassware that says “Potions Master,” and I plan to actually pour a Butterbeer in here a little later on and take some photos.
Laura: Ooh.
Andrew: Heyyy.
Eric: But for now, it’s got my La Croix.
Andrew: Excellent. I also have here today the MuggleCast hat, which we’re calling the MuggleCap in the merch store. It has “Est. 2005.” By the way, these hats that Laura and I are wearing, and this MuggleCap, they’re embroidered! I mean, this is nice stuff. It looks really nice.
Eric: It’s really cool. Honestly, there’s a reason it’s taken us this long to get official merch that’s for everybody, as we were waiting for the quality to show up, and here it is.
Andrew: Right, so MuggleCastMerch.com. Great idea as the holiday season approaches, by the way; check out the store and maybe find something you like and send it along to a friend or family member and they can get it for you for the holidays. And once you do receive your merch, listeners, please do tag us, and we’ll be happy to share it on social media. And by purchasing any of these products, you are helping us run the show, so thank you so much, and enjoy this great merchandise.
Main Discussion: Graveyard of Goods
Andrew: All right, it’s time for this year’s Halloween episode: “Harry Potter and the Graveyard of Goods.” Today we’re going to look at various aspects of the Wizarding World that came into existence and then ended up being canceled. We’re going to start with some of the more obvious ones, and then we’ll dip into the more obscure ones that you may have forgotten about or have never heard of before.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: So let’s start with one of the biggest of all, the Fantastic Beasts film franchise; we’ve spoken about this a lot over the years. So the original plan was to make five films chronicling Newt and his friends. It was actually announced to be a trilogy when it was first revealed by Warner Bros. and J.K. Rowling, but then Rowling said – and I believe it was right around the time the first movie came out, while she was promoting it – that it would actually be five movies, and everybody was very excited about that. Well, of course, it turns out it ended up being three anyway. We got these three movies between 2016 and 2022, and the series was just surrounded by controversy between Johnny Depp, the bad storytelling… I’m still not over all that boat nonsense.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Andrew: And J.K. Rowling was trying to separate herself from it by the end, it seemed like. And the box office performance slid with each movie.
Eric: Yeah, yeah, they rehired Steve Kloves to come in and do work on the screenplay for the third film, which, they essentially soft-landed it. I know technically it’s not dead; it’s just “parked,” but it definitely is probably dead, and RIP Fantastic Beasts.
Laura: You know, I will say I was pleasantly surprised by the first Fantastic Beasts movie.
Eric: Ah!
Andrew: Agreed.
Laura: I was one of these people who was skeptical of the series when it was announced, because initially, when it was three movies, I was like, “How are they going to get a three movie, a trilogy story, out of this 41-page book?” And then they turned it into five movies, and I was like, “Uh, how are they going to do that?”
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: And then I saw the first movie and it was so good, and I was like, “Man, I’m so glad to be wrong about this.” And then Crimes of Grindelwald happened. [laughs]
Eric: Well, and I would argue, yes, the first film did not in any way fail to show us how five films could exist.
Laura: Right!
Eric: The second film did that. [laughs] It was like, “Ooh, yikes!” I think the first Fantastic Beasts is probably my favorite Harry Potter film.
Andrew: Oh, wow. I enjoyed number one very much. I really liked number three too. Hated number two. And the series still had potential, in my mind; it was working towards that big Dumbledore/Grindelwald duel, and we were expecting to see Ariana’s death as well, which was a pivotal moment in the Harry Potter series, so it’s just a shame that we didn’t end up getting all that.
Micah: Yeah, I think that the point that you bring up about how the story pivoted also was such a major contributor as to why this film series did not take off the way that they were expecting it to. They did have something with those core four characters in the first film, and like we’re saying, we all really very much enjoyed Fantastic Beasts, the original. But I think they tried to stretch it too much with the Dumbledore and Grindelwald storyline. I think there’s a way that that could have been woven in, but when you move away from Newt as the main character, along with Jacob, Queenie, and Tina, that’s really where it felt like, “Okay, well, we just watched this first film about these four characters, and now all of a sudden we’re going in a completely different direction.”
Eric: Some of them aren’t even in the movie in the third one!
Micah: Right.
Eric: Like, Tina is “on assignment.”
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: So it’s disappointing, though, because this was our first opportunity to really expand the universe in a way, I guess, even though it’s kind of a prequel.
Eric: We brought the show back. We brought the show back because of this movie series.
Micah: That’s true. [laughs]
Eric: We were out of here!
Andrew: This wasn’t my intention, but it’s appropriate that we’re opening with Fantastic Beasts in this discussion since it did, like you said, Eric, bring the show back. [laughs]
Eric: It revived us back from the dead.
Laura: Well, something good came out of it, so…
Andrew: There you go. Episode title: “Something good came out of it.”
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Andrew: For any listeners who don’t know – maybe some newer listeners – we ended MuggleCast back in… what was it, 2013, I believe?
Eric: Episode 269, by the way.
Andrew: And then two weeks later they announced Fantastic Beasts, and we were like, “Oh, okay, I guess Harry Potter and MuggleCast aren’t over after all.”
Laura: Yeah, and I will say Justin in our Discord is calling us out right now. He said, “Brought the show back,” and then he added, “after two weeks.” [laughs]
Andrew: That’s how excited we were to have an excuse to continue podcasting.
Eric: Listen, we needed a break. We needed that two weeks.
Andrew: Yeah, that too. We did need a break. [laughs]
Eric: It was the most restorative two weeks of our lives.
[Laura laughs]
Micah: And we haven’t been off for two weeks since.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: Right. Well, around the holidays. So moving along in our list here, the MinaLima illustrated editions…
Eric: This one still hurts.
Andrew: … and this was actually a pretty recent development. So MinaLima are the creative duo behind much of the visual design for the Wizarding World films – including Fantastic Beasts – and they were planning to create a fully illustrated series of the Harry Potter books. They got up to Book 3. And while I personally didn’t love that they were releasing these editions and the Jim Kay editions at the same time, the MinaLima editions stood on their own. They had the pop-out sections; they had little things you could play with. The books were physically smaller than the Jim Kay illustrated editions, so that was a nice alternative. And then earlier this year, MinaLima announced that Scholastic had not commissioned them to continue after Prisoner of Azkaban, and it came as a shock, because MinaLima has always had a great relationship with the Harry Potter filmmakers, and why would they cancel it mid-series? And we still don’t really have a solid answer as to why. But Scholastic does claim they are going to continue this illustrated series, but MinaLima is so distinctive in their art style; how do you continue that without it seeming like it’s a ripoff?
Eric: You can’t, yeah.
Laura: I mean, I also have to think there’s potential infringement in that, too. I mean, it is such a unique style; I cannot imagine that MinaLima does not have some sort of copyright around their stylistic approach, so…
Eric: I think that’s right.
Andrew: Maybe they’ll send some scary emails to… their lawyers will send some scary emails to Scholastic and scare them off from continuing the series. If I were MinaLima, I wouldn’t want them to continue.
Eric: No, absolutely not, especially if they burned that bridge and didn’t recommission them. I think that this is something that MinaLima would have made the time for if negotiations hadn’t, apparently, broken down.
Andrew: This left fans with a bad taste in our mouths because we were invested in this illustrated edition series, and it’s hard to imagine that MinaLima were the bad guys here. Maybe… my only guess is they were asking for too much money, and Scholastic said no, but I don’t… Scholastic should have paid them.
Eric: We discussed this in a special bonus, I remember, and I remember saying that it’s MinaLima; there’s no “too much” money. There’s no price, really, that you can get them to be this invested in. The way that they make these books is extraordinary, and it does really make you question… I mean, they were one of the few creators that I loved to still support by way of official merchandise, and that’s gone now.
Micah: Well, you could still support them via their shop, right, in London?
Eric: That’s for sure.
Andrew: Yeah, and you can buy all their products online, by the way. MinaLima.com.
Micah: There’s just an authenticity that comes with the illustrated editions that they did because they worked on the Potter films; they worked on the Fantastic Beasts films. There’s nobody like them when it comes to that type of content, so I do agree it would be very strange for somebody else to step in and to continue these editions. I feel like we’re going to probably talk about this with other editions of the Harry Potter books, but they’ve never seemed to be able to complete a set outside of the original seven books.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Eric: Honestly, yeah. It’s a good thing that the original seven books are a thing, but every other attempt…
Andrew: Yeah, there have been others, but I think they do them all at once, and normally it’s just cover redesigns. It’s not like…
Eric: Yeah, like the House editions or whatever.
Andrew: The House editions, or the… I’m forgetting his name. Kazu Kibuishi? Released new covers. Those were just paperback, I think.
Eric: Yeah, that was the first Scholastic rebrand, and then they kneecapped him by releasing brand new ones a year or two later. It was ridiculous.
Andrew: Yeah, yeah.
Eric: They didn’t let that one breathe. And whatever they’re selling now, with that charcoal drawing of the kids, I hate it. I can’t stand it.
Andrew: Oh, I don’t like that either. It’s black and white.
Eric: No, it’s so… the books, the world is so rich and vibrant and colorful, any charcoal book cover just is going to fall flat.
Andrew: Yeah. Well, let’s go further back in fandom history: Pottermore classic, [laughs] I’m calling it.
Eric and Laura: Ahh.
Andrew: So Pottermore.com launched in 2011, and it allowed fans to experience the Harry Potter universe interactively with House Sorting quizzes, potion-brewing; you could collect a bunch of stuff. One of the biggest features for us long-time fans was there was exclusive writings by J.K. Rowling, and she was revealing new information about canon and a lot more. It primarily… if I remember how they introduced it at the beginning, it was a place for new readers to have this companion as they read each chapter of the Harry Potter books. You could go really chapter by chapter on Pottermore and get additional information about each chapter, along with beautiful original artwork. It was also the first home for the Harry Potter ebooks, and that was a big deal because they did not… they were kind of late to the ebook train, and they launched with Pottermore in partnership with Sony. It was very exciting, I remember, to see the new chapters and books slowly be rolled out on Pottermore, and it felt to me like a modern spin on the long-promised encyclopedia. By this point, 2011, we were coming to terms with the fact that we wouldn’t probably get an encyclopedia, but then here comes Pottermore. More Potter. Oh my gosh, it’s like the Internet version of an encyclopedia. That’s cool!
Eric: The rollout was exceptional. The hype was real. There was this website placeholder where it was like, “The owls are gathering.” Just the…
Andrew: They teamed up with fansites to tease it, I remember.
Eric: That’s right!
Andrew: MuggleNet had a thing… yeah.
Micah: Weren’t there coordinates that were provided on Google Maps, and then each site had a set of coordinates, and each coordinate revealed a certain letter that spelled out Pottermore?
Andrew: That’s right, yep.
Micah: Which was very cool.
Andrew: I think you could go into Street View and then you would see the letter.
Micah: Right. Exactly, yeah.
Andrew: Yeah, so it was an interesting rollout. But then they turned Pottermore basically into a very simple, uninspiring, unoriginal blog in 2016.
Eric: Ugh. This was…
Andrew: All the charm of the original site was stripped. The chapter by chapter area was gone, as was the gorgeous artwork.
Eric: Yes.
Andrew: And the worst part about it, which really cheapened it, was they started doing these Buzzfeed-y type articles. “Seven times Ron… this or that.” You know? Just trash. It’s like, “What happened?”
Eric: I don’t understand at all that decision. That’s one of the most perplexing decisions I think I’ve ever seen anyone make, is the decision to make it into a fansite, because there were already still huge fansites. And if you have the ear of the series’ author, you don’t need to be writing speculative articles about “Ooh, Lavender Brown may or may not be dead!”
Andrew: [laughs] Yeah, presumed dead.
Eric: No! Just tell us or shut up! Ugh, can’t believe it. And they did that with everything; they did that with teasing the new films. And even after the film was come out, they wouldn’t give us a straight answer. It’s like, who’s writing this?
Laura: Yeah, it also feels a little bit like what happened with the author’s original website, because her website back in the day was so good. It was also really interactive; it was very clever. What I loved about the chapter by chapter stuff on Pottermore was it was like living artwork; things moved, cauldrons bubbled. You could see characters sitting there breathing; you could see them moving, and it was really, really cool. And to see them take such an ingenious idea and boil it down to what Eric was talking about is just unfortunate, and it reminds me of what happened, and how we all felt when J.K. Rowling’s original website went away because it was so cool, the original design.
Eric: Well, and with Pottermore, the Sorting quiz! You could actually get Sorted.
Laura: You could get your Patronus too.
Eric: Yeah, well, eventually. I think years later.
Andrew: And I think they still offer those, right? They have those…
Laura: Oh, do they?
Eric: They do, but it’s not as animated. I think it’s like radio buttons on a simple page, but the original… I mean, that’s why I’m okay with being a Hufflepuff, is because I’m a Pottermore Hufflepuff. After taking that whole quiz and then reading that welcome letter, I was like, “Yeah, this is me.” Yeah, I don’t know.
Andrew: So then Pottermore turned into WizardingWorld.com, and actually, we have a new development here. Over the last couple weeks, they have now gotten rid of the Wizarding World branding, and they’re just… if you try to go to WizardingWorld.com now, it redirects to HarryPotter.com, and at the top, it’s the same Wizarding World site, but instead of that branding, it now just says “Harry Potter.”
Eric: Oh no.
Andrew: So it looks like they’re taking a step back from the Wizarding World branding for the overall franchise, too. The Wizarding World branding, it launched in 2018 with a great logo, depicting an open book and wands for pages.
Eric: Love the logo.
Andrew: We were analyzing it, I think. [laughs] And it made sense that they introduced this new branding because they were expanding with Fantastic Beasts, and now as of the last couple weeks, they’re ditching that. And I guess it makes sense as they gear up for the Harry Potter TV series, but I think it’s also an acknowledgement they’re going to stay focused on Harry Potter’s story for the foreseeable future.
Eric: Yeah, yeah. That’s just… I can’t… what are they going to do with Wizarding World Games? Is it going to be Harry Potter Games again?
Andrew: [laughs] Yeah. Well, right now they’re under the Portkey Games label, right?
Eric: Oh, that’s right.
Andrew: Yeah, but maybe they will just start calling them Harry Potter Games.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: So speaking of games, actually, Wizards Unite. Ah! This was developed by Niantic, the creators of the massively successful Pokémon Go. The still very popular Pokémon Go, by the way. I see commercials on TV for Pokémon Go, even in the last week. [laughs] This was released in 2019, and players could act as wizards and witches protecting the wizarding world from the “Calamity.” That’s where the weirdness started.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: And you would catch these Confoundables across the Muggle world and… I don’t know. You were saving the world from evil.
Micah: Calamity.
Andrew: From calamity.
[Andrew and Micah laugh]
Eric: Right.
Andrew: But the game just didn’t… we were so excited about this because, like I said, Pokémon Go was so popular, and we thought, “Oh my God, a Harry Potter Pokémon Go. This is the best thing ever.” But it was just… it was darker than Pokémon Go. Pokémon Go worked because you were collecting all these cute creatures, and they have so many waves of Pokémon that have been released over the years.
Eric: Right.
Andrew: Wizards Unite just was dark and repetitive, and there was a story.
Eric: Yeah, it’s not like you go across the street and find a Squirtle. You would get Filch instead.
Andrew: Right, who wants to collect Filch?
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: Death Eater.
Andrew: And it wasn’t even Filch; it was a Confoundable of Filch, which did what?
Eric: I was never clear on that.
Andrew: Me neither.
Eric: I didn’t hate it. I played the game; I liked it.
Andrew: I did too.
Eric: I liked going around, but it was quickly repetitive, and I was not incentivized to keep playing it the way that Pokémon Go has, from time to time, managed to get group events correct and… yeah.
Laura: Wasn’t the first Confoundable – or one of the first ones – you found Hagrid? Do y’all remember that?
Eric: I think that’s right.
Laura: Yeah. I just remember because I was sitting in my living room and all of a sudden Hagrid was just on my screen.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: Well, you’ll never forget that.
Andrew: “Hagrid is in my living room? Whoa.”
Laura: Yeah, well, the whole thing is it’s basically… it’s mimicking the same technology as Pokémon Go, where you’re seeing these figures in your living space if you…
Eric: Yeah, it’s augmented reality.
Laura: Yeah, thank you. That’s the word I was looking for. So Hagrid was just standing on my coffee table?
[Laura and Micah laugh]
Micah: As you do.
Andrew: You’re like, “Um, should I call the police?”
Laura: I was like, “Sir, this is a private residence.”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Micah: Andrew, didn’t you go to a public Wizards Unite event?
Andrew: I did, yeah, in Indianapolis, and you could go around with fellow fans and collect Confoundables. We were saving Indiana all together. So I just loaded up Pokémon Go; I’m catching some Pokémon now. I registered a new Pokémon to my Pokédex. Yeah, it should have been something else. Couldn’t they have focused more on wizarding world creatures instead of catching humans in Wizards Unite? And it felt more tedious than Pokémon Go. So it’s a shame.
Eric: I think the thing that a lot of these iterations get wrong is they’re too dark. They’re unexplainably dark. Heavy on the Death Eaters, heavy on the Acromantulas. And it’s like, “You know, there’s a lot of lightness to be had in Harry Potter. Give us more of that.”
Andrew: There is.
Laura: Honestly, though, I mean, based on the timing… because that was what, 2016? It is kind of surprising they didn’t try to do something that was more aligned with Fantastic Beasts. It just seems like that’s built-in promotional material.
Andrew: Exactly.
Eric: I mean, I think you could catch a Mooncalf, but it wasn’t… you didn’t have your own case or anything.
Micah: Not like catching a Mooncalf in Hogwarts Legacy.
Eric: Right.
Micah: Which you can do.
Laura: You can.
Eric: That magical encounter, yes.
Micah: I mean, you can catch a lot of things. So yeah, maybe they were just punting it down the road a couple years.
Andrew: Yeah. Speaking of mobile games, there’s one I don’t think any of us played, Harry Potter: Magic Awakened, and this was combining a collectible card mechanic game with RPG-style gameplay. It was initially released in China in 2021 before it expanded around the world in 2023, but now it’s going to be closing in select countries, including the US, by the end of 2024.
Eric: Yeah, you’re right. I think that one missed me.
Andrew: [laughs] Yeah, it wasn’t on any of our radar.
Laura: I know there was another one that was really frustrating because you needed gems or some kind of currency.
Eric: Was that Hogwarts Mystery?
Laura: Yes, Hogwarts Mystery. It was so annoying.
Eric: Hogwarts Mystery… I do agree. It’s possible they adjusted that in the end. It was to keep you coming back, but you literally would get to a point where a few story cards in, you would be out of energy because you encountered something, and it’s like, “Oh, I can’t even take in the story that I’m being given because it’s siphoned off.” So Hogwarts Mystery, though, for what it promised… it was set, I think, in the 1980s, or you’re in Charlie Weasley’s year, so Tonks is around. They eventually did complete all the years of Hogwarts, so that’s actually quite a lot of story. I’m assuming that one’s still available.
Andrew: I think it is.
Eric: But the various mobile games throughout the year, yeah.
Andrew: So let’s look at WizardingWorld.com again. There was something called Wizarding World Gold, and we talked about this a bunch on MuggleCast.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Andrew: This was a paid subscription on WizardingWorld.com that was launched in 2019. It offered fans exclusive perks, like early event access, discounts at official stores, collectible pins that you could get at the Cursed Child or Wizarding World theme park. You also got a unique physical book that was personalized to the subscriber; that part was cool. It had your name printed in it.
Eric: Did you receive that?
Andrew: I did, yeah. It was nice. But the subscription didn’t gain any traction, and we all… everybody who had it was like, “What am I paying for exactly here?”
[Micah laughs]
Andrew: It was $99 a year, I think, or $79 a year. I meant to look up the price.
Eric: I did not buy it, and I’m so happy that I did not buy it.
Laura: Neither did I.
Micah: Well, Andrew and I took the hit for you all.
Eric: Oh my God. You know when the biggest offer was a discount in the stores. Like, come on, guys. [laughs]
Micah: Well, I think – at least I’ll speak for myself – in order to speak knowledgeably about it, you’d have to get the product and be able to talk about it.
Eric: It’s true, yeah.
Micah: But in a way, it was its own Patreon for Harry Potter fans.
Eric: Except that creator did nothing.
Micah: Well, that’s what I was going to say, is that the biggest challenge that it faced was the fact that it really didn’t offer much, and you can’t do that, and that’s why it fell flat. And I’ve got to imagine it was probably challenging for the folks at Wizarding World Gold to keep coming up with different ideas that they could sell people on, and it didn’t end up working out.
Andrew: Yeah, because what would you do? I don’t even have any ideas for them. And I don’t want to give them any.
Micah: The pins is cool, but you could do the pins outside of Wizarding World Gold. You could make pins available at different Harry Potter locations throughout the world and just sell them as one-offs.
Eric: Yeah, so many stores have that license now. And Micah, it makes sense that you had it because you live in New York, so it’s like, at least you could check out the Cursed Child gift shop, the Harry Potter store eventually. Not sure if the timeline adds up for that.
Micah: I didn’t think it did, but definitely for Cursed Child, because I think when we went to see it, that’s when I got the pin for Wizarding World Gold.
Eric: Oh, that’s right. The special… yeah.
Andrew: Well, the Cursed Child was just mentioned, and another item in our graveyard, the original version of the Harry Potter stage play. Before Cursed Child became the official continuation of Harry’s story, early versions of the stage play were conceptualized as a family drama focused on Harry’s early years living under the stairs at the Dursleys’ house. And I still remember when we found out about this, and we were shocked. Of all the things you’re going to do, you’re going to just follow Harry under the cupboard? That sounds dark and depressing as heck.
Eric: I was excited.
Andrew: It was supposed to explore the emotional challenges that Harry faced before discovering magic. It was kind of like a prequel of sorts. [laughs] And luckily, they changed their minds and we got the Cursed Child, which…
Laura: Luckily?
Andrew: Well, yeah, for all that has been said about the plot, it is a very cool show to see on stage, so I think they ultimately made the right decision.
Laura: Mmkay.
Andrew: [laughs] Laura, you can’t judge it until you’ve seen it!
Eric: Yeah, it’s true.
Laura: And here’s the thing, I would love to see it; I’ve heard that the production is something to behold. But I think it would have been possible for them to tell a better story and still put on a really great production. Maybe not this original story, maybe something else, but…
Andrew: See it to believe it.
Laura: Yeah, I don’t know. I think… I feel like one of the big pitfalls that this franchise has encountered again and again is assuming that if they slap “Harry Potter” on something, it’s going to sell and be successful.
Eric: Thank you.
Laura: And we’ve seen that how many times over at this point? Stop doing this. Actually do something good. It’s insulting.
Eric: That’s the word. It was insulting, releasing Harry’s story and claiming that these were the same characters. They don’t read the same, sound the same, say the same things. It just… it was insulting. It played to the lowest common denominator of general audience in many ways.
Andrew: You’re talking about Cursed Child still?
Eric: Yeah.
Andrew: [laughs] This is a rough take.
Laura: I’m just speaking in general.
Micah: I agree with what Laura is saying, though. Anytime you’ve tried to expand the story, at least those that they’ve tasked that with haven’t done a good job. When you look at Fantastic Beasts, when you look at Cursed Child… we’ve said the production of Cursed Child, without question, is fantastic, but the story is horrible.
Eric: I remember you freaking out, Andrew, about Delphi. Like, “Voldemort can have kids?”
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: There you go. I made you laugh.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: Yeah, that was… yeah. Well, the Bellatrix/Voldemort angle in particular was the shocking…
Eric: Now you’re on board. I had to remind you how bad it was.
Andrew: I still have a soft spot in my heart for Cursed Child. I think it’s enjoyable. I’m willing to forgive the story because of what you witness on stage. [laughs] I think it’s…
Eric: I will say, Scorpius and Albus Severus is the closest thing to a gay couple that we’ve seen realized in official Harry Potter canon.
Andrew: There is that, too.
Laura: Yes.
Eric: And it beats out Dumbledore and Grindelwald, and they had three films to do that.
Andrew: Yeah. We actually do have a new entry for the Cursed Child graveyard section of the graveyard that we’ll get to a little bit later. Let’s return to the illustrated editions. I mentioned the Jim Kay ones; I’m putting a question mark on this gravestone. So Jim Kay’s illustrated editions of the Harry Potter books began with Philosopher’s Stone in 2015, and these books are beautiful. I think I prefer these to the MinaLima editions. There was supposed to be all seven books, but Jim Kay stepped down after Order of the Phoenix; he said it’s a huge burden on him, and we totally understand that. Scholastic and Bloomsbury have said that this series is going to continue; I would have presumed with the person who was assisting Jim Kay on Book 5; there’s somebody else on that book who assisted with some illustrations. But we haven’t heard anything about Half-Blood Prince yet, and we should have by now, because Order of the Phoenix illustrated came out in 2022, so it’s been a solid two years. They were on a two-year cadence, especially with the more recent ones. Neil Packer was the person who was helping Jim Kay on Order of the Phoenix. So we’ll see, but I hope we’re not going to have two incomplete illustrated edition series.
Eric: That would be awful, especially because I think Book 6 is such a joy that it’s going to be a shame not to at least get Book 6. They should have just not took too much on. They should have split the books and made smaller books, like done Book 5 in two parts, like I was suggesting…
Andrew: You’re still on this. You’ve been asking for this forever.
Eric: [laughs] I know, I’m sorry.
Andrew: Stop trying to make split books happen!
Eric: It’s a great opportunity to relive sort of what our thoughts were, past, present, and continuing, so… forgive me. [laughs]
Andrew: No, no, I love flipping through those Jim Kay books. Just so good.
Eric: Yeah, his art of Ginny – I think it’s in Prisoner, because there wasn’t any art of Ginny in Chamber; a travesty – was really good. I love that art.
Micah: The only thing that I could point to here is just that you’re going to lose consistency. And I think when they start talking about doing something that is going to require somebody – or multiple people – to step in to do it for seven books, they really need to think about if that’s something that’s possible. We’re seeing it with MinaLima. We’re seeing it with Jim Kay. We’re going to talk about the anniversary editions that they only did one of.
[Eric laughs]
Micah: They said, “Okay, let’s celebrate ten years of Sorcerer’s Stone. That’s it.” I think it’s a missed opportunity, honestly, for Scholastic and Bloomsbury to not celebrate big milestones for Harry Potter.
Andrew: Oh, yeah.
Eric: It’s money on the table too.
Micah: There’s that, but I still think there’s an opportunity to celebrate, aside from just saying, “It’s 10 years, 15 years, 20 years, and we’re going to give you another book for it.” Collectors love it, for sure, but I just… I don’t feel like they’ve celebrated the books in the way that they could have.
Eric: I’m going to give them a tip: Next time you want to start a seven-book collectible series, start with 7. Start with number 7. Work backwards.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: Work your way backwards. It only gets easier, right?
Eric: We have enough Book Ones, and then it gets easier! That’s exactly right.
Andrew: Right, right, yeah. So Micah just mentioned the 10th anniversary editions. There was one that came out for Sorcerer’s Stone. I love this cover! It’s new artwork by Mary Grand-Pré; she did it just for the 10th anniversary edition. The book also included some new material, some bonus material from the author. Micah is modeling off the book right now. It’s Harry staring into the Mirror of Erised; you could see the silhouettes of his parents in the background. Something about this cover, just the colors… look at that artwork in there too. Very nice. So they did the one, and that was it. And I would have loved if Mary Grand-Pré did new covers for each of the books. Maybe that’s asking too much, because she also did do a lot of extra art, not just the chapter art, but did other stuff for posters and whatnot. They could have used all that for new covers. The 10th anniversary is a special one; I wish they saw that series through.
Eric: Yeah, yeah. I agree.
Laura: Why do you think they didn’t continue it? Did it just not sell very well? Did Mary Grand-Pré say, “I’m done; I’m out”?
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: My understanding – take this with a grain of salt or not – my understanding is a soured relationship. Mary Grand-Pré was a relative unknown when she did the Harry Potter books; as such, she doesn’t own her own art, and so somebody, an art insider, told me that was sort of the situation, is Warner Bros. on one hand… or Scholastic, rather. Nothing to do with WB. But Scholastic would be like, “Make us more art. Come make more art.” She’s like, “Why would I do that? I don’t own my art that I make for Harry Potter.” So I think that was another instance, though, where a soured relationship with the artist not being willing to give up either some creative control or some money or contractual disputes probably soured, and the artist was just like, “Nope, I’m walking away.”
Andrew: Yeah. So here’s something that’s not a book or a game or a movie: a Celebration of Harry Potter at Universal Orlando. This was an official event for fans. Ran from 2014 to 2018, and fans could attend panels – not fan panels, mind you – meet cast members, participate in interactive exhibits; they had a little show floor. Micah and I went once, maybe twice, and it was surprising to see it wasn’t coming back, because it was the one annual Harry Potter event in America, so it was… and you would think Universal would have wanted to continue doing it because it was a great way to bring people to the parks for the Wizarding World lands.
Eric: Yeah, they tried a couple of gatherings like the expos, and then this other convention they tried to do. It just felt very, I think, corporate in the end, because it wasn’t…
Andrew: It did.
Eric: Well, by that point – and none of these are viewed in a vacuum – it’s like, what was the fandom doing at the time? Or what had the fans accomplished? And there were a lot more personable conventions, gatherings, things like Dragon Con and the Chestnut Hill conference, which just had its seventh year. There are so many fan-led conventions and gatherings, and then you look at what WB was going to do, and yeah, it’s in the park, but we were in the park for a fan convention. We rented it out at night in 2010, 2011, 2014, 2017. They couldn’t offer anything the fans themselves hadn’t already done, basically.
Micah: Yeah, I don’t disagree with that. I’m trying to remember what the experience was like outside of Andrew and I getting caught in a thunderstorm at one point, but… [laughs]
Andrew: Yeah, it was fine. It wasn’t…
Micah: I think there was a performance of some of the Harry Potter music, right? Outside? Do you remember that?
Andrew: I don’t know. I can’t remember. I’m starting to realize why this hasn’t returned. [laughs]
Micah: There was some Q&A with cast that were present.
Andrew: And there were… you could learn how to cast a spell with the wand coordinator from the Harry Potter movies.
Micah: Right, you…
Andrew: But he shows up at the unofficial cons too.
Micah: You rode a broom, from what I remember. They had a lot of props there as well. They had the Goblet of Fire. They had the thing spitting out all of the letters that Harry gets from Dursleys’.
Andrew: Oh, right. They had some props; that was cool.
Micah: Anyway.
Andrew: Yeah, this is… I’m bored talking about this.
Micah: Yeah, let’s move on. [laughs]
Andrew: But there was something else that was supposed to happen last year and didn’t. It was called Wizarding World Festival, and it was announced on Back to Hogwarts Day in 2022. It was supposed to happen summer 2023 somewhere in America. It was going to be this three-day festival featuring “panel discussions, film screenings, special guest appearances, cosplay and trivia competitions, autograph signings, photo opportunities, exclusive merchandise, special announcements, and more magical experiences.” So more going on than a Celebration of Harry Potter. Like I said, it was supposed to happen last year. It never happened. They had a website; a mailing list. “Stay tuned, everybody.”
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: It went nowhere! My only guess is, in light of all the JKR backlash, they thought maybe it wouldn’t be a good idea to do this, because they were also marketing it as sort of this outdoor festival. Would there be people protesting? Would people be trolling the event? Maybe they realized it would be too much trouble to do and too risky, possibly? I don’t know. Then again, if it’s a ticketed event… I don’t get it. It’s just so weird. They announced it in 2022, and then we never heard another peep. So this one, I think, hurts fans the most: an official Harry Potter encyclopedia. It’s very much in the graveyard at this point. For years, the author was promising a comprehensive encyclopedia covering everything about the wizarding world. We were expecting it to include boatloads of new information, reveal old notes, etc. It just would include everything we could have ever dreamed of. And the author said multiple times – on Pottercast, in court, and on her official website…
[Laura laughs]
Eric: Yep.
Andrew: … that she was working on this and that it would be released. It never happened. We got Pottermore, like we said earlier; that kind of felt like a Internet version of the encyclopedia, even though it wasn’t what we were fully hoping for in an encyclopedia. Last year, we did get something called the Wizarding World Almanac, which is just a rehashing of information we already knew in an illustrated format, so it was like, “Meh.” We never got what we dreamed of most of all.
Eric: No, this one hurts, because you just know that many, many years of planning went into this wizarding world. Even of the first seven books; by the time Deathly Hallows was published, there were an encyclopedia’s worth of things that could have been organized into some form of what could be the encyclopedia, and it would be fascinating. Stuff like the lineage of Dean Thomas, and not just a screenshot of a picture of the thing, but the actual thoughts behind it and stuff. Really could have been honed, I want to say. But even with Pottermore, the special exclusive writing from J.K. Rowling got lesser and lesser, I think, as the books went on, and that was a real shame, because if the author had committed to writing one new piece per chapter, or for every other chapter, even, there would have been a lot more of that same content that we wanted that belongs in an encyclopedia.
Laura: Do y’all think that had the official encyclopedia happened, do y’all think that it would have included poop mountain?
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: Absolutely.
Micah: How could it not?
Andrew: Yeah! She’s supposed to tell us everything.
Eric: We know that she’s been waiting to… well, that was the other thing, is that the author’s own writing ability, I think, waned in the years… if you look at the screenplay for Crimes of Grindelwald, you’re like, “Can she even tell the story anymore?” But before that, the Ilvermorny stuff was straight up appropriation. Unapologetic, didn’t consult anybody… the controversy over the years about her writing was growing, and for good reasons. So I don’t know; if we hadn’t gotten the encyclopedia in 2008, 2011, maybe at the latest 2012, we were never going to get it.
Micah: Wasn’t there talk of it being an accessibility issue as well, and that’s why Pottermore was created in the first place? Meaning that presumably most people could access – and I know not every place in the world has Internet access – but the ability for folks to be able to access Pottermore.com is greater than having to go out and buy a $25 encyclopedia.
Eric: I think you’re right.
Andrew: Eh, are you thinking of Cursed Child? Because that’s why they released the script book?
Micah: No, I seem…
Eric: No, I think somebody legitimately… yeah, somebody said that about Pottermore. Somebody official, prominent, said that it was more accessible, but…
Andrew: Well, they were just BS-ing, because this started as a book series. [laughs]
Micah: Well, I’m not agreeing with it; I’m just saying…
Eric: Yeah, yeah. You’re talking about people who somehow have the Harry Potter books, so… [laughs]
Andrew: Right.
Eric: It’s like, “Eh.”
Andrew: I wouldn’t be surprised if we do end up seeing whatever the author had put together at some point down the road still, but the shame of it all is that the people who were once claiming for this now don’t care, and so it won’t receive the excitement that once would have rocked the fandom.
Micah: So it’ll probably happen.
[Andrew and Micah laugh]
Andrew: Right, yeah. We’ll see. So another project… and I had forgotten about this, or I didn’t really know about this until doing research for this episode. Electronic Arts – the makers of older Harry Potter video games, The Sims, Sim City, and many more titles, of course – they were working on a Harry Potter MMO. This was in the early 2000s, and it was a massively multiplayer online game. It actually had made it well into the development process; they were at the beta process. They were ready to go with a beta. And we don’t have any other details about this, but somebody who worked on the game commented on it a couple of years ago, which was one of the few if only times we have an official record of it. But that would have been awesome. On the other hand, video games have evolved a lot over the last 20 years, and if they work on something like this now, it’ll be incredible, and hopefully they do.
Laura: They better.
Andrew: The Harry Potter Ultimate Edition DVDs. This is another item in the graveyard. These started strong; they had lavish packaging and behind-the-scenes content for the first four movies when they started being released in 2009, and it was nice to have, “Okay, here’s Sorcerer’s Stone and every extra piece of content we filmed for the movie, the deleted scenes, outtakes, behind-the-scenes looks,” this and that. But then with the later movies, 5-8, the content in them was lacking, right, Eric? I think you feel very strongly about this.
Eric: Yeah, it’s complicated. So they did eventually… the biggest reason to get the Ultimate Editions, apart from the version of the movie with the deleted scenes back in – which is a feature I’ve never liked, but I put up with people who love it – the eight-part documentary, the “Creating the World of Harry Potter.” That was the big deal, was every film was going to get one of those, and every film was going to get an Ultimate Edition, which would be the exclusive home for those. They did eventually actually do that eight-part documentary; it’s on YouTube, but it is also on some of the Blu-ray collections as well, so you can still get… they fulfilled the promise of the documentary, at least, but the Ultimate Editions as we know them I don’t think made it past four, and so it was… and then Blu-ray itself, I think, came out, which made DVD… studios probably weren’t investing in creating DVD boxsets in the same way, and nowadays we’re back to studios not really doing any special features for films, even on their home video release. So the tide turned, I think, in the industry and otherwise, and it ate up what was originally this promising, very colorful boxset.
Andrew: Yeah, hopefully one day they do release the boxset we’ve all waited for. Just throw literally everything into this boxset for all eight movies. Fantastic Beasts, too, sure. Everything. Everything you’ve got. [laughs]
Eric: I mean, as you get to the later films, the deleted scenes weren’t meant to be put back in the film, because they were alternate stuff, right? And they were… in the first movie, it was stuff that was in the books that was just a little extra that they cut for pacing; that makes sense to put back in the movies. But in the later ones, if you look at the deleted scenes from the later films, it really wouldn’t have made sense to put some of them back in. Still, the Ultimate Edition… they could have done something else with it.
Andrew: Yeah. I want to touch on one more item, and this was the most recent, and this is a bit of news: The Cursed Child on Broadway is going to be further shrinking its runtime.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: So the touring version of Cursed Child just opened up in Chicago, and it’s going to be coming to DC and LA next year. The Broadway version is currently one part. London still has the two-part version of Cursed Child, but they couldn’t make the… they were trying to make it work on Broadway; I think financially, they were too constrained, so then they shifted to this single-part version. But now they’re going to take the touring version and make that the new Broadway version, so it’s going to go from three and a half hours to under three hours long. It seems worrying that they have to keep shrinking the runtime, especially if you have to cut it an extra half hour?
Eric: What is there to cut? And if there’s that to cut, you should have cut it originally.
Andrew: And I bet they’re going to cut all the gay stuff that they added in by shrinking it down to one part.
Laura: Yep.
Eric: Oh no!
Andrew: [laughs] And you know what’s so funny? I got a press release about this the other day. So Sonia Friedman, who produces the show, she said in this statement, “From the very beginning, we and the creative team have challenged ourselves to find new and innovative ways to bring the extraordinary storytelling and stage craft to life.” That’s how you’re introducing this? You’ve always strived to make it shorter? Is that what you’re saying?
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Andrew: I don’t get the spin here. [laughs]
Eric: You’re giving audiences 30 minutes less.
Andrew: Right. For the same price, surely, that it’s been. [laughs]
Laura: Honestly, it’s just corporate. That’s all it is. She’s just speaking in corporate.
Andrew: Yeah, I mean, this is all PR’ed to hell, but I just had to laugh when I saw that. “We have always challenged ourselves.” Like, okay?
Laura: What the heck?
Micah: You know, having seen Cursed Child very recently, I’m not sure what they could cut that would… it’s not like being there for three and a half hours you feel it drag at any point, so I’m curious… I can understand maybe when you’re on the road in other cities, but when you’ve been in New York for so long, and you’ve already cut it from two shows down to one, to further cut down the run time, what it suggests to me, maybe, is that this is going off Broadway sooner rather than later.
Andrew: Oh, I fully agree. And you know what I was thinking about, too? So we had on one of the stars of Cursed Child – for the next month or so – Joel Meyers, and he was talking about how physically demanding this show is. I’m imagining him reading this news and being like, “Oh, why couldn’t I have had the three-hour version? Why did I have the three and a half hour?” [laughs] “I could have been working less, damn it!”
Eric: Amazing.
Andrew: Well, I have not seen the single version, single part-version of Cursed Child. I would like to; I’ve heard very good things about it. I’ve heard very good things about the Chicago version, too, so I’m sure people who see this new version on Broadway are going to have just as good of a time, but it is worrying that they keep shrinking it on Broadway. So that is the graveyard of goods. But I do have a question for everybody: As a wise poet likes to sing, “Everything dies, baby; that’s a fact. But maybe everything that dies someday comes back.” So if we could bring one of the above items back, what would it be? Eric?
Eric: Oh, everybody gets… each of us get a reprieve that we get to give?
Andrew: Yes, you have the power to revive something. What would it be?
Eric: Oh, I love this question so much. I think the original Pottermore.com. All of the artwork, the chapters by chapter, more content about and behind the scenes of the books… I really would just want that. It was a moment in time; captured our hearts. I think we were all getting a little anxious about the end of Potter when that came along, and it was so pure and had the best intentions, and never really got completed in the way that I think it was intended, and didn’t stay.
Andrew: Yeah. Laura, how about you?
Laura: That Harry Potter MMO. They better do some online multiplayer gameplay with the next Hogwarts Legacy or I’m going to riot.
Andrew: Micah, how about you?
Micah: I have so much nostalgia for the original JKRowling.com, but I’m a completionist, and I’m going to go with the MinaLima editions.
Andrew: Ooh, good one.
Eric: So they work it out. They keep going.
Micah: There were never any problems. It’s all resolved.
[Everyone laughs]
Micah: They’re working on Goblet of Fire.
Eric: Aww.
Andrew: So I would say Fantastic Beasts. I really would’ve loved to have seen that series fully through. Number three was fantastic – beasts – and I was left excited about where they were going with it, so I wish it was seen through.
Lynx Line
Andrew: This week’s Lynx Line question was exactly this topic for patrons: If you could bring back one of these, what would it be? And I did a poll. Number one at 28% of the vote was the Fantastic Beasts film series. At 22% was the MinaLima editions. At 19% was the official Harry Potter encyclopedia; I’m actually surprised that made the top three. And then number four was the Jim Kay illustrated editions, and then Pottermore classic. Thanks, everybody who participated in that poll. If you have any feedback about today’s discussion, you can contact us by emailing or sending a voice memo that’s recorded on your phone to MuggleCast@gmail.com, and next week will be a Muggle Mail episode, so get your feedback in now. Email anything about Order of the Phoenix Chapter by Chapter or today’s discussion. Again, MuggleCast@gmail.com. No Quizzitch this week; it’ll be back next week. This show is brought to you by Muggles like you. We’re an indie podcast just sharing our love of Harry Potter with fellow fans, so your financial support is of the utmost importance. In fact, listener support is the only reason we’ve been able to podcast for 19 years and counting. And there are three great ways to help us out: If you’re an Apple Podcasts user, subscribe to MuggleCast Gold – it’s better than Wizarding World Gold…
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: … which gets you access to ad-free and early releases of MuggleCast, plus two bonus installments every month. For even more benefits, pledge at Patreon.com/MuggleCast, and you’ll get all the benefits of MuggleCast Gold, plus livestreams, Lynx Line participation, a physical gift every year, and more. And the newest way to support us – and we’re all showing off something today – is by purchasing some MuggleCast merchandise at MuggleCastMerch.com. Do you think any of your Muggle friends want to have more Harry Potter friends? Then tell them about us, and you can also help us spread the word by leaving a five star review in your favorite podcast app. Lastly, visit MuggleCast.com for transcripts, social media links, our full episode archive, our favorite episodes, and more. That does it for this week’s episode. Don’t forget to check out all of those Halloween episodes that we plugged at the top. Happy Halloween, everybody. We’ll see you next time. I’m Andrew.
Eric: I’m Eric.
Micah: I’m Micah.
Laura: And I’m Laura.
Andrew: Bye, everyone.
Laura: bye.