Transcript for MuggleCast Episode #684, Albus Dumbledore Superstar (OOTP Chapter 8, The Hearing)
Show Intro
[Show music plays]
Andrew Sims: Welcome to MuggleCast, your weekly ride into the Wizarding World fandom. I’m Andrew.
Eric Scull: I’m Eric.
Laura Tee: I’m Laura.
Andrew: And put on your smartest clothing and prepare for a dose of justice, because this week we are wrongly standing on trial. Woo! Happy holidays, everybody. And to help us with today’s discussion, we are joined by one of our Slug Club patrons this week, Monet! Hi, Monet.
Monet: Hi!
Andrew: Welcome to the show.
Monet: Thank you so much. I’m excited.
Andrew: You’re welcome. And you’re down in Florida, so thank you for taking some vacation time out to podcast with us. Hopefully this is just as relaxing. [laughs] Can we get your fandom ID before we get started?
Monet: Yeah, my favorite book is the Half-Blood Prince; my favorite movie is either Chamber of Secrets or Deathly Hallows – Part 1; my Hogwarts House is Gryffindor; Ilvermorny House is Pukwudgie; and my favorite character in Order of the Phoenix is actually Ginny, because I think that she had her conversation with Hermione where Hermione was like, “You gotta chill out,” while they were at 12 Grimmauld Place. And she starts to act really like herself, fierce and kind and talented and brave. She comes up with the name for Dumbledore’s army, all that stuff.
Andrew: Good answer. Eric, I’m sure you approve of that, being a Ginny fan.
Eric: I’m thrilled. Also, I have a follow-up question, Monet: What do you love about the seventh film? Deathly Hallows – Part 1. Because I think that’s a less common favorite. I really love it myself, but…
Monet: It’s a good question. I think it’s partially from the books, because I remember reading the first part of that book and just being mind-blown by just… my adrenaline was rushing and so many of the scenes are so visceral, like them arriving on Tottenham Court Road after the wedding, and being at Malfoy Manor, and all that stuff. It’s so… and then I love the stuff, just the interpersonal stuff; Ron comes back, and that’s my favorite chapter in the book, is when he comes back, so yeah.
Eric: Aw. Yeah, I agree.
Andrew: I love that you said Deathly Hallows – Part 1 as well because just this last week, I guess it was through my Spotify AI DJ or maybe on the radio – I don’t know – but I heard “O Children” for the first time in forever!
Eric: Ahh!
Laura: Ohh.
Andrew: I was like, “Oh, I forgot this song!” That was a good song; that was a good moment in the movie. Well, anyway, thank you again for joining us today, Monet, and thanks for your support on Patreon. Speaking of Patreon, listeners, you can now gift a Patreon membership. If you’ve been wanting a membership to our Patreon and you’re still crafting your wish list for Santa or whoever else, send your friend or family members a link to Patreon.com/MuggleCast/gift; they will be able to gift you anywhere from one to 12 months of Patreon access. And once you get your gift membership, you’ll receive access to bonus MuggleCast episodes, our livestreams, a new physical gift every year, and a lot more, including merch discounts.
Eric: Oooh.
Andrew: If you’re looking to bring MuggleCast into the Muggle world, MuggleCastMerch.com is offering a Black Friday sale. Listeners can use code “SIRIUS” to get 15% off any item now through Cyber Monday, and don’t delay, because this is our first and best offer of the year. Laura, you’re wearing a MuggleCast shirt right now, aren’t you?
Laura: That’s right, I am wearing my “No Theory Is Safe” shirt. And you do get some choices in colors with a lot of these shirts; I chose the burgundy version of the shirt, and I feel like it looks really, really great in person. Super comfy. Very soft.
Andrew: It does look great. I’ve yet to see it in person, so I need to order one of those for myself, I think.
Eric: Also, Andrew, did you say that was code “Sirius,” as in Sirius Black for Black Friday?
Andrew: Do you get it? Do you get it?
Eric: I get it!
[Laura and Monet laugh]
Andrew: Eric sent me a message in Slack like, “That was a great code idea!”
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: I said, “Thanks!”
Eric: Listen, I’ve got to give the compliments when I can. It’s wonderful.
Andrew: [laughs] So again, code “SIRIUS” to get 15% off any item now through Cyber Monday. In addition, patrons will get 20% off through a code that is posted on Black Friday, and that one, too, will run through Cyber Monday.
Eric: Woohoo.
Chapter by Chapter: Time-Turner
Andrew: Now it’s time for Chapter by Chapter, and this week we’re discussing Order of the Phoenix Chapter 8, “The Hearing.”
Eric: That’s right. What? What? Damn, I missed an opportunity to… “The Hearing”? Huh? Huh?
[Andrew and Monet laugh]
Eric: We last discussed Chapter 8 of Order of the Phoenix on Episode 441, titled “Brian?” for November 4, 2019.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: That was with special guest Mike Schubert; you’ll hear him in a moment. He’s also, since that recording, got a Percy Jackson podcast, which is really cool, called “The Newest Olympian.” And originally we did Chapter by Chapter for this chapter on Episode 240, “Join the Weasleys.” October 2, 2011.
[Ticking sound]
Dumbledore: Three turns should do it, I think. Good luck.
Ron: What the…?
[Bell dings]
[Whooshing sound]
Robotic voice: Episode 240.
Andrew: And it’s sad and an interesting plot point because it’s like, why would…? Seeing someone leave the Weasley family clan… it’s always been such a happy family, and then suddenly there is this drama, and it’s surprising.
Eric: Yeah. Heck, if I knew there was an opening in the Weasley family, I’d join in.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Eric: I’d dye my hair red.
[Bell dings]
[Whooshing sound]
Robotic voice: Episode 441.
Laura: I think the biggest tripping point for her was where she said the Dementors were running.
[Andrew and Mike laugh]
Laura: And that was probably in a moment of nervousness. She’s trying to convey they were moving rapidly.
Mike: Honestly, though, a running Dementor I think is scarier than a gliding Dementor.
Andrew: Yeah. Ew, those ghosts have legs?
Mike: Imagine that big thing running. [laughs]
Andrew: And they just have, what, night black legs and shoes? Or are they running barefoot?
Micah: They wear Nikes.
Eric: Definitely Vans.
Micah: It has to be special Nikes.
Andrew: I was going to say they have Crocs. They would wear Crocs.
[Everyone laughs]
[Whooshing sound]
[Ticking sound]
Dumbledore: Mysterious thing, time.
[Bell dings]
Eric: Do we have any updated thoughts on what shoes Dementors wear?
Laura: I was going to ask, could we see them in New Balance? Have they entered their dad era?
Eric: Probably.
Andrew: I’m standing by the Crocs comment.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: I think that’s the best answer.
Eric: I think so too, yeah. Monet, what are your thoughts on that?
[Laura laughs]
Monet: Oh, gosh. Combat boots, maybe?
Eric: Ooh! Okay.
Laura: Oh yeah, I like that one.
Monet: To go with the scary vibe?
Andrew: That makes it scarier for sure, yeah.
Chapter by Chapter: Main Discussion
Eric: So let’s get into this chapter. I know, Andrew, you said that it’s one of justice, but that kind of barely ekes out; it’s mostly one of injustice and terror. Pretty much everyone in this room seems hell bent on making this a terrifying time for Harry. It’s really difficult to read it. It really just illustrates how far the government is willing to go to discredit Harry, and I think it’s probably pretty safe to say that justice is being undone. Harry’s due process rights, the right to have an attorney present, and essentially his ability to be given what he needs to be on his best foot, are just completely removed, and I really feel like this chapter resets the game board for how we think things are going to go in the future, because it shows that the government is not on Harry’s side, and here’s how terrifying they can be.
Andrew and Laura: Yeah.
Andrew: Basically saying, “All bets are off. You can expect the unexpected now. We will treat Harry as we wish.” Now, of course, there’s a wildcard that changes all of this when Dumbledore comes in, but without him, he would have been in a lot more trouble and probably not have gone back to Hogwarts.
Eric: Do we feel like our initial read-throughs of this chapter maybe meant something a little different? Or they hit us differently now?
Laura: Yeah, they definitely do. I remember reading this for the first time, it felt like this wasn’t something that could play out in modern society in this way. Definitely felt like it was more reminiscent of the past as a way of demonstrating a lesson to be taken away. But unfortunately, I think a big part of growing up is coming to realize that the world is not fair, and there are people who are intentionally set up to fail the way that Harry is being set up to fail here.
Eric: Yeah. I mean, it’s the… all of the things that Fudge in particular is doing to really just mess with Harry and terrify him is really untoward, but he’s got all the power. So essentially – and we’re going to talk about the ways that Dumbledore saves the day – but the ways in which the Ministry have stacked this against Harry are as follows: First of all, this is a full criminal trial with all 50 members of the Wizengamot. Apparently, this is unusual, because Dumbledore is like, “It shouldn’t be standard practice to have this many people.” But he’s actually… the trial is being held in the room where actual Death Eaters were prosecuted after the end of the first wizarding war here, and in fact, Harry has seen this room in Dumbledore’s Pensieve in the last book. And it’s got this big chair in the center of it that has chains that wrap all around you; that’s still there. The chair is still there. The chains are still there. Harry gets close to it. They wiggle; they’re really anticipating…
Andrew: “Let me at him.”
Eric: “Strap him down!”
[Monet laughs]
Eric: It just is awful. And the previous chapter, Arthur Weasley is like, “They haven’t had a hearing down here in years,” which means they really made effort to make it this terrifying setting for Harry.
Andrew: And speaking of intimidation, we see this in Mary Grand-Pré’s chapter art. The Ministry is looking down on Harry. Harry is, it looks like, a good 5 to 10 feet below them, having to look up. That’s an intimidation tactic, especially for a child. He feels so inferior, not just because of how many people are listening to him – all these strangers in the dark, in this gross, old, cold, dark room – but he’s also sitting significantly below them to make him feel even more insufficient and inferior.
Eric: The idea that Harry would be able to answer even a simple question in these circumstances with them domineering over him all this time is terrifying. I know several of us have been to traffic court over the years, but have you ever had to look into the eyes of a judge and answer any question, even if it’s just “Is your name ____?” It’s terrifying. Authority is already scary, and now Harry is finding himself in a position to have to defend when the stakes could be that he loses access to magic forever and can’t go to Hogwarts.
Monet: The fact that he does as well as he does – doesn’t burst into tears or screaming or anything like that – and manages to say something, I think, is really impressive. I think I would just shake. It’s so scary.
Andrew and Eric: Yeah.
Laura: I agree. And I think a lot of that is due to societal pressures that I think most of us carry where even if intellectually, we know that just because you have to appear in a courtroom, it doesn’t automatically mean you did something to deserve to be there, but there is a societal interpretation that a lot of people carry of, “Oh, you must have done something to get yourself in this situation,” and it can make it really easy for you to undermine yourself and to assume that the deck is stacked against you, which, if it weren’t for Dumbledore here, it definitely would be.
Eric: Well, the deck is against him.
Laura: Yep.
Eric: They’re preying on him, they’re preying on his youth, they’re preying on the fact that they have all the power, and it’s disgusting. We mentioned both the time and the place of the hearing were changed the very last minute, and when Harry goes in there – it’s at the beginning of this chapter – the first thing they say to him is, “You’re late.” Like, “You have failed to make a good impression on us, Mr. Harry James Potter.”
Andrew: Yeah, off to a terrible start. And like I was saying last week on the show, you need time to collect yourself before going into something like this. He had zero time. He was totally thrown off.
Eric: Well, it was taken from him.
Andrew: Yeah, right. And Monet, I’m totally with you. I would be scared and crying and shaking as well.
Eric: Same.
Andrew: If I ever saw a bear and I was alone, I would do everything wrong. I would scream, shake, cry, run away, and I would be eaten by the bear. I wouldn’t follow protocol.
Monet: [laughs] It feels like there should… the other members of the Wizengamot should be more shocked or something. I think later when Dumbledore points it out, they are, and there is a murmur or something. But some of them must be sitting there being like, “What is going on?” Right?
Eric: Yeah, like, “We haven’t been in this room for years.” [laughs]
Andrew: Well, I agree with you, and I think part of it is that they don’t want to get on Fudge’s bad side, and maybe they know that Fudge has an ax to grind, so they’re just going along with it. And maybe they’re secretly hoping that Harry is going to be excused. I mean, it does come down to a vote, too, so they could have all been, “Oh, this sucks, but let’s entertain Fudge, and we’ll all vote that he’s free, he’s cleared of all charges.” They could have been thinking that whether or not Dumbledore was going to show up. I would like to think that many of them were going to vote to let Harry off the hook even if Dumbledore wasn’t there, because there’s no case here.
Laura: Yeah. I think Fudge probably poisoned the well, too. We have to think most people on the Wizengamot have never come into contact with Harry Potter, so they don’t really know him as a person, and how long have they been listening to Fudge spew garbage about Harry all summer long? So they probably walked into this, at least some of them, with some preconceptions of the person they were going to be seeing sitting in front of them, and I think a lot of them were surprised by what they saw, especially when Dumbledore comes to the rescue here.
Eric: It’s a bias, to your point. It’s an inherent bias. And Fudge has a complete control of the media; he’s leaning on the Prophet heavily to publish only what he wants them to publish, including a lot of slander or libel against Harry Potter and about Dumbledore. But just this notion of changing the time and the place wasn’t just to make Harry look bad, but to make it impossible for Dumbledore to show up and so he wouldn’t have his counsel there. How do we think Harry would have fared if he had to do this alone? If Dumbledore weren’t expecting exactly this kind of thing?
Laura: Oh, Harry would have been convicted. He would have been expelled from Hogwarts. I think Dumbledore may have come in after the fact to clean up the mess, so I don’t know that Harry would have been permanently expelled, but I think we could have seen a chapter that ended on a really solemn note of Harry realizing he’s being convicted.
Andrew: To Azkaban for him. School is over. This book series ends two books early.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: Well, and that’s the… I hate to keep using the words “scary” and “terrifying,” but it’s all I can think of to say. But this idea that Harry, who defended himself in this instance of magic in front of a Muggle, wouldn’t be believed and wouldn’t be allowed to present evidence… now, nobody… I don’t think the letter that said he had a hearing indicated what his rights are, to say “You could bring a witness,” because that’s kind of a shock, that a witness can even be brought to this sort of a thing. Glad Dumbledore knows the law, but they really didn’t go out of their way to give Harry any ability to not be found completely guilty.
Andrew: Yeah. How do you think this would have played out, Monet, had Dumbledore not participated?
Monet: Yeah, I agree with Laura; I don’t think it would have gone very well at all. [laughs] I think there’s two trials that we see in the series in present day – obviously, we see a bunch in flashback – and one of them is Mary Cattermole in Deathly Hallows, and that one was very similar to this one, I think, because she didn’t have representation; she didn’t have a chance to present her own evidence. She was in the same kind of configuration, and so I think what we saw playing out there is very similar to what it would have looked like if Dumbledore hadn’t been there. And I think the other thing I was thinking was Umbridge ran that trial, too, and so it seems like this is a prototype, or like a first experiment, or whatever, for how her anti-Muggle-born trials will go in the future. There’s no rights, there’s no sense of fairness, or no one’s told what they’re allowed or anything. They kind of go in with an assumption that they’re guilty.
Eric: Drawing that connection is amazing to me and completely apt.
Laura: Yeah, that’s a great catch. And I love the idea that Umbridge is kind of using this as a test balloon for what’s to come. I mean, that makes her even more insidious.
Eric: Yeah. So another thing that strikes me toward the beginning of the hearing is just Harry is in a room where he has no friends. This is before Dumbledore shows up. The fact that the person he knows the best is Percy Weasley…
Andrew: [laughs] Great.
Eric: … and Percy is there to take notes on behalf of… to suck up, to do what Percy is doing. And Amelia Bones, I think, throughout the trial we see her as someone who is 100% neutral. She asks follow-up questions that aren’t damaging, that aren’t meant to intimidate. She praises him on his corporeal Patronus; that’s the one little shred of positivity here on this whole court. But to be isolated, to not even be allowed to have somebody like Arthur, for instance, there sitting somewhere… it doesn’t even have to be next to him, obviously, but just somewhere in the room. The fact that that’s denied to him, I think, is sad as well, and kind of just scary. It really makes things worse.
Andrew: Yeah, the one person who only seems sort of kind of – but not really – on his side is Amelia Bones. She seems to be taking it down the middle-of-the-road approach, and it seems like she would be sympathetic to Harry had Fudge not been there. But of course, he is, and I think she knows that she has to face Fudge after this.
Eric: Yeah, yeah. She does what she can. We know that she’s a good egg from other areas of canon. But here’s the thing: Even when Harry does do his testimony, he’s cut short. He’s interrupted. Fudge is always asking, always completely… he can’t get a sentence out, and it’s because – I think it’s pretty transparent – those who are questioning him are too scared of the answer. The fact that Harry is able to blurt out, “It’s because of the Dementors…” You get the impression that Fudge never wanted that fact to come out, and it seems so silly, because you’re like, “Of course, why else would somebody cast a Patronus shielding charm?” That’s one of the two things that we know that Patronuses are used for period, and I don’t think there was a Lethifold on Wisteria Walk. But it’s to the degree that Harry was never going to be allowed to give any kind of defense. I think showing that they can’t even let him use full sentences is a ghastly indication of what it would have been like without Dumbledore there.
Andrew: What’s also interesting to me, Eric, is you said Fudge was anticipating hearing the Dementors excuse…
Eric: I wonder.
Andrew: Yeah, well, I mean, the irony here is that he says that Harry came up with this grand story about Dementors, when Fudge was the one who was also bracing for it; he was prepared to come up with some crap about Dementors too. Only Harry’s story wasn’t crap. I agree with you that the way Fudge jumps in just tells you that he doesn’t want to hear the truth. And what I also love about Dumbledore’s appearance – which we will get to, of course – is that he’s kind of clapping back at Fudge at the same rate and with the same style that Fudge is to Harry. He’s giving him a taste of his own medicine.
Monet: And Fudge keeps calling Harry’s stories taradiddles and clap trap and all of this stuff…
Andrew: Clap trap. [laughs]
Monet: He’s so biased, it’s ridiculous.
Eric: Well, yeah, and that really goes to show you, there’s got to be some kind of barometer, or measure of the fairness of a court situation; you can learn a lot about the country by the court. But the idea that this would be so heavy-handed against Harry, against what we know the truth to be… we were reading in that chapter. We were in Harry’s head. We know what he was thinking; we know what he was doing. The idea that the government doesn’t want to hear it and they want to expel him and remove him from power because he’s dangerous to them or their agenda is, yeah, pretty rough. So we are going to talk all about how Dumbledore – knight in shining armor – comes and saves the day, but first, we have an ad!
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: Was that a Fudge impression?
Eric: No, I don’t know what it was.
Andrew: It sounded like it.
Eric: I knew it was odd, but I don’t know what it was.
[Ad break]
Eric: Now let’s talk about Albus Dumbledore Superstar! Jazz hands.
Andrew: [singing] Albus Dumbledore Superstar!
[Monet laughs]
Eric: Here he is, folks, the smartest man in any room, and now he’s in our room.
Andrew: Wow, this is so nice. Is this because Micah isn’t here?
Eric: Yeah. Well, there’s… [laughs] I wouldn’t say there’s a complete causal link, but it’s nice to… I just had the idea of Albus Dumbledore Superstar, and I was like, “We have to lead with that.” So when Dumbledore arrives, obviously Harry is relieved, but not only because he’s been wanting to see Dumbledore for months; he knows that the only chance he has is here. And in fact, Harry feels, it says in the book, a powerful emotion, “a fortified, hopeful feeling rather like that which phoenix song gave him” in the past. So another connection between Dumbledore and phoenixes.
Andrew: Yeah. Well, I love that Harry’s emotions here are described as heart-swelling, because Harry has been really frustrated by the fact, for this entire book to date, that Dumbledore has been nowhere. He’s been wondering where he is. “Why is he coming into Grimmauld Place in the middle of the night when I’m asleep? Where is he for my trial? I am so alone here.” And then in comes Dumbledore to this trial when he needs him most, and he is just serving and delivering and kicking wizard booty.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: It’s just so great to see from a reader perspective, too. I still remember my own heart swelling the first time I read this book and this scene. It just felt so good to see Dumbledore come in, and not just show up and be like, “Hey, I’m a witness,” or, “I’m here just to hang out.” I mean, he was kicking butt. He had a mission.
Eric: Do you think…? Well, that’s kind of my question to all of us, then, to the panel, is do we forgive him for ignoring Harry because he shows up when he absolutely bare minimum needs to?
Monet: I would say maybe not, but I do think there’s something really, I don’t know, powerful and memorable when someone stands up for you; it’s one of the most… I don’t know, things that I remember about people that gives me trust in them. So I think in his head of what he was trying to do with the Horcrux and Voldemort and trying to… whatever. It’s still a good thing that he did. I don’t love that he kept ignoring Harry, but at least it was kind of a powerful, supportive motion. I guess it made it more confusing for Harry, but still.
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: He suffered for numerous chapters and months, but on the other hand, it created a great moment right here, so… worth it.
Eric: I guess it’s a little bit of mixed messaging, yeah. I guess…
Monet: It’s mixed messaging.
Eric: Yeah, it’s mixed… well, but to your point, Monet, when somebody stands up for you, it’s unexpected, especially someone you weren’t expecting it from to stand up for you. And I think Harry has resolved himself; he’s resigned himself to being like, “Dumbledore is ignoring me,” to have… Dumbledore is probably the last person Harry thinks is actually going to walk through the door. But Dumbledore has been doing this ever since it first happened, ever since the instance of the Dementors in Little Whinging. We found out in this chapter that that night, Dumbledore is talking to Fudge about what he can and can’t do to Harry’s wand. We did know… we saw from the owls, the peck of owls that came through, that Dumbledore was personally managing it, but to get Dumbledore’s first-hand account, which gets brought up here… Dumbledore really has actively been fighting for Harry’s rights. It’s just… it’s good somebody has been, because again, the government is not making this easy, and they could have snapped his wand. And even if there’s an appeal process, even if there’s months and months of red tape to get through, the wand is snapped; he’s not getting it back. And we as readers know exactly how important that specific wand is to the future of the wizarding world, and it would have been gone. So glad Dumbledore is here. But he ultimately does something I think is really significant in bringing Arabella Figg in as a witness, because if Fudge’s tactic is to take everything that he’s even going to let Harry say, and say that Harry is making it up, what Dumbledore does is he says, “There were Dementors, and I can prove it. Here we have a witness who also saw them, and there you go,” because immediately Fudge can’t say that this only appears in Harry’s head then, and that, I think, is… I think Dumbledore pre-anticipated what the argument was going to be from Fudge.
Andrew: Yeah. And Monet, you have a question here that actually, I was wondering myself, about how much Figg actually witnessed herself?
Monet: Yeah, I’ve seen different takes on was she really…? Was she lying? Or I don’t think she was lying completely, but it seems like it’s implied, especially in Harry’s inner monologue, that he’s like, “Ohh…” He thinks she’s lying about at least seeing them. But if Dudley felt them, clearly she felt them, so it’s an interesting… and why did she have to say that she visualized them anyways if she felt them?
Andrew: Yeah, like you said, Harry doesn’t feel like she’s a compelling witness, and she’s screwing up a couple of the details initially. And just the read to me was that she was coming off very rehearsed, like Dumbledore coached her. He created a witness. But then – and maybe it was just for the storytelling moment, another moment as good as Dumbledore swooping in to save the day – she really does bring it home when she starts to describe just how it feels to be in the presence of a Dementor. So I could go either way on this, actually. I mean, she could have just accurately described it too. Dumbledore could have coached her if he wanted. Do we know for sure she definitely witnessed what went down?
Eric: No, I don’t think we know, and I think it’s equally suspect if she did actually see them, because again, if Fudge’s whole argument is “Harry made them up,” and Dumbledore’s counter response is going to be to bring someone in who saw them… she can’t see them, so how is this a good idea when it comes down to it? And maybe Dumbledore’s gamble was almost foiled by that exact fact when she said that they were running. So maybe Dumbledore is…
Monet: She must have seen something, because doesn’t she come down the alleyway and say, “The Dementors! Get your wand out. The Dementors!”
Eric and Laura: Yeah.
Andrew: And I think you can also chalk up her stumbles to just being nervous in the setting, just like Harry was.
Eric: Well, people don’t do well under pressure, and to the point, how stressful is this whole experience? What does this room look like to Figg? And she’s not even the subject of this hearing. It’s terrifying.
Laura: Yeah. And she’s also an underrepresented member of this society…
Eric: Oh, snap.
Laura: … and the panel, especially Fudge, are coming at her with some preconceived notions that are pretty offensive. She gets kind of indignant when he says, “Can Squibs even see Dementors?” And she’s like, “Yes, we can!”
[Eric laughs]
Laura: And I mean, I don’t know. I feel like if Squibs can see other things in the wizarding world, like ghosts… I assume they can see ghosts. I assume they can see Thestrals if they’ve seen somebody die. Why not Dementors? But even… it might have been the first time she ever saw one in person; that could also be part of it. She might have been overwhelmed by the visual and not known how to describe it.
Andrew and Eric: Yeah.
Andrew: And then had to relive it in court.
Eric: Laura, you had a point here about some of the other Wizengamot members.
Laura: Yeah, and honestly, I think the reason that this testimony works the way it does is because there’s still clearly a lot of respect for Dumbledore amongst members of the Wizengamot. Even when Dumbledore comes in, a couple of the witches in the back row are described as waving at him and smiling.
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: So even though Dumbledore was clearly forced out by Fudge – Fudge, I guess, bullied people into voting him out – I think he still has a lot of pull there.
Eric: He definitely has some pull for sure, but it by no means seems like a done deal when the two witches wave at Dumbledore, so he’s still got to pull a rabbit out of a hat with this.
Laura: Yeah. Well, the thing is, he had to give them reasonable doubt, and by giving them reasonable doubt, they couldn’t possibly convict Harry without more clear evidence that he had actually done something wrong.
Andrew: Yeah, and I think one reason – and I was getting at this a little earlier – that Dumbledore’s representation works so darn well is he is just forceful. He is very well-prepared. He is moving quickly. He is matching Fudge’s energy by just turning it all on its head. And plus, he also has the respect of many members, to Laura’s point, in this trial, so he’s got the wind at his back, I think.
Eric: He knows the law. He knows the subsection paragraphs that apply. He cites them back at them.
Andrew: [laughs] He’s throwing out dates. “Oh, when you and I met on the second of August, this happened…”
Eric: Yeah, anybody that’s read a rule book… I think a lot of people in charge of enforcing the rule books don’t know how or why the law works, despite them trying to wield it at you, so that’s why Dumbledore is able to really put them in their place, because he’s focused. But speaking of that, his whole tone and his length of calmness this entire time is so staggering to me, because putting myself in that chair with the dang chains, I would not be able to focus on anything other than how unfair it is, how I shouldn’t be here, this should not be the thing… I would not be able to do what Dumbledore can do, which is just play a little devil’s advocate and remain humble and modest and say, “Oh, I could be wrong about this, but I think this is the law,” and it’s just absolutely a hell of a spectacle to see him keep his calm and just meticulously pick through the evidence and remind them almost conversationally, but he’s teaching a class right now on how it is that Harry is innocent.
Andrew: He’s also annoying some people with this confidence and how well-prepared he is, and this is going to come back to bite him, but he had to do this. [laughs]
Laura: Yeah, “some people” equals Fudge and Umbridge.
Andrew: And Umbridge, yeah.
Laura: I mean, I think he’s letting them save face by basically saying, “I would never dream to think that you would intend to do this this way.”
Eric: [laughs] The thing that you are very clearly dead set on doing!
Laura: Right, but I think he’s also kind of letting them tell on themselves.
Eric: So again, with Dumbledore, he’s defending Harry; it’s clear Harry could not do this without him, I think we all established. And it’s relived that Dumbledore went to Fudge the night this happened. And I just feel like at this point, not only are the gloves off, but we see just the lengths to which the Ministry is willing to go to distort fact, to discredit witnesses that are simply not politically aligned with them. It’s way heavy-handed and above and beyond anything we’ve ever seen, and with the exception of the trials in Deathly Hallows, which are great to call out, we don’t see it again; this is just a uniquely uncomfortable chapter. And the book doesn’t necessarily get happier, but this is so crucial, I think, to examine this chapter from a standpoint of, “What if this happened in real life?”
Andrew: Yeah, it is the start of scarier things, but we also get some feel good moments out of it through Dumbledore’s presence and what he delivers here for Harry, and what Harry is feeling in this moment, too.
Laura: Yeah, until the end of the trial.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Laura: That’s kind of a let-down.
Eric: Dumbledore is just like, “Okay, bye,” and leaves.
[Laura and Monet laugh]
Andrew: Well, I have excuses for him there.
Laura: Oh, okay.
Andrew: But I’ll save them.
Eric: Oh!
Andrew: Speaking of Dumbledore, he does – and we were talking about how prepared he is – he does call out clause seven in the Decree for the Reasonable Restriction of Underage Sorcery when he defends Harry’s use of magic in public. Just wanted to throw that out there, because we see 7 and 12 come up a lot across the series, and here’s another example. Thank you!
Eric: It’s funny because I wonder what the first six clauses are if the seventh one is “You can use it if it’s a life-threatening circumstance.”
Andrew: [laughs] Good question, yeah. I don’t know.
Eric: Eh, whatevs. Maybe that’ll be a future Lynx Line or something. So we’ll be right back to talk about the overall implications of this hearing after these messages.
[Ad break]
Eric: This whole chapter, I’m thinking Dumbledore is such a smartie. He’s such a genius, and he’s well-prepared and intelligent. I previously said he’s…
Andrew: [tearfully] These are the nicest things I’ve ever heard on this show about him. [fake cries]
Eric: I know, I know.
Laura: Enjoy it. It’s not going to last.
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: I’ve been hearing that for a while.
Eric: Oh, oh. But this is part of what irks Fudge, and others who are thinking of him, against Dumbledore. Dumbledore is the liberal elite. “Dumbledore is this uppity, just completely out-of-touch intellectual who went to college and is here to put us in our place.”
Andrew: [laughs] College?
Eric: And I feel like this is an extremely dangerous shift of anti-intellectualism. Fudge is trying to ram through this thing based on some phony evidence against Harry, and this is… the truth completely dismantles Fudge’s argument, and it doesn’t work, but there’s this resentment for the type of person that Dumbledore is, who in this instance, in this scope, is just a teacher or a headmaster trying to prevent a student from being expelled and his wand snapped. And so what I wanted to talk about, in general, is this anti-intellectual shift against fact, against truth, which should not be something that you are arguing against here. You would clearly want to know the truth, but Fudge does not want to know the truth.
Andrew: It’s a hard read, but I think this is a lesson that you get from these books, it’s that some people just ignore the truth to push forward their own narratives, their own wants and needs. Kyle said something earlier in our Discord that I wanted to highlight: This trial serves as a proxy, in many ways, for the greater conflicts between Dumbledore and Fudge. This confrontation right now is bigger than Harry, and it sucks that he got stuck in the middle of it, but this is Fudge with an ax to grind, and he’s dragging everybody down into this dungeon to put this kid on trial and intimidate him into getting what he wants out of Harry. It’s just gross.
Eric: You’re right to point that out, too, that it does get kind of personal between Fudge and Dumbledore; that’s pretty explicit. They’re arguing in this chapter.
Andrew and Laura: Yeah.
Laura: But Eric, I think you raise a really good point in that regimes like this, there’s a playbook they follow, honestly, and one of the early things that they tend to do is go after intellectual institutions, go after education, even childhood education, right? And that can then expand into the arts and various other parts of the culture, which, unfortunately we see this unravel over the next couple of books. So yeah, I mean, I think that Fudge and the Ministry are following a playbook that was well-established long before they got there.
Eric: They can’t win if they tell the truth. They can’t remain in power if they tell the truth that Voldemort is back, so they don’t.
Laura: What were you going to say, Monet?
Monet: Just what you have said really made me think of things like book bans, or just bans on particular topics and stuff and just that kind of push back. I think when I first read this, I had no touch points for reality.
Laura: Right.
Monet: I was like, “This doesn’t happen.”
Eric: Blessedly, we didn’t either!
Monet: Yeah, and now I’m like, “Oh dear.”
Andrew: [laughs] Right, because you hear people try to push a narrative that is not based in any evidence at all, and then it’s like, “Well, wait, where is your proof? Where is your proof, Fudge?”
Eric: It just… you can’t compete with somebody on the facts, so they discredit the facts. They prevent there from being a… but that’s the thing that shocks me the most, is this should be an open-shut case. We know exactly what Harry did and why. If it is the law that you can defend yourself, great; he’s out. But the level of showmanship, the level of terror they want to instill in Harry… they do ultimately have all of the power here, and it comes down to a vote, but presumably then there might even be a way for Fudge to overrule it. I mean, he is the Minister for Magic. If he said, “Oh, okay, you’re gone,” and then has them seize Harry after this, what would stop him? What would actually stop him? And so that’s what I’m really ruminating on here, is just the level of power that somebody who’s anti-intellectual the way Fudge is wielding – and comfortable with wielding – against the truth.
Monet: And I think the most frustrating thing about it, too, is they’re in there arguing about whether Harry cast a spell to do Dementors, and Voldemort is next door, trying to break in…
[Eric laughs]
Monet: … about to take over the wizarding world, and you’re like, “Is this really what we should be…? We’re arguing about the facts when we could be trying to fix the problem.” And I think that’s what is the really deep frustration when you read it.
Andrew and Eric: Yeah.
Eric: That’s a great point. It’s a distraction, and it’s… they’re harming children. They’re targeting children with this crap. And Dumbledore is able to say… where he really gets them in this chapter – and I love it – is “Seeing as how there were Dementors there, they were either sent by the Ministry, which you can’t imagine, or they were sent by someone else who’s not the Ministry – won’t say his name, but you know who I’m talking about – so I think that you guys should look into that. Surely you would be interested in looking into that.” And there’s no way out of that argument for Fudge. Once Dumbledore makes the argument and frames it that way, there’s no way out.
Monet: Genius moment.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: It’s great. But if Dumbledore weren’t there… and Dumbledore is a fictional character; he’s not going to be there in real life. If this ever happens to us, that’s going to be a problem.
Andrew: Aww. Well, and that’s why we have lawyers. As big of a surprise as it is that Dumbledore shows up at this trial, you had to assume, in hindsight, that they did have a plan to protect Harry during this. Whether it was in a small room with less people, or it was in a larger room like this, they had to have a plan, even if they weren’t letting Harry onto it.
Eric: Maybe. I mean, maybe it’s kind of like… I did think… I did get a flash forward one of the moments when Fudge and Dumbledore clashing of Dumbledore being like, “Well, you can try and take me, but you’re not going to.” I wonder if he wouldn’t skedaddle with Harry, grab him around the chair if things went really, really bad.
Andrew: [laughs] Yeah, yeah. Backup plan.
Laura: Oh, kind of like he does later in this book?
Andrew: Right.
Laura: He’s just like, “Peace!” He’s out. [laughs]
Eric: Maybe he would have to have done that with himself and Harry. Although, for that to be the case, side-along Apparition would have had to be invented, and that was not invented yet.
Andrew: And what if those chains came down on Harry’s arms that are on the chair rests? Would he have been able to get out of that?
Eric: I don’t know. Yeah, maybe Dumbledore could turn them into pasta noodles or something like that.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: I feel like that would be a thing. I feel like that’s one of his easy go-to spells. So let’s talk very briefly about Umbridge here, because… and I guess she is named as being present, but she’s seated at Fudge’s symbolic right hand, and her face is mostly in shadow at first. It’s not until later, when she sits forward, that we see all her wonderful toad-like expressions. But this is obviously very portentous of things to come, and what I like about seeing her now, knowing who she’s going to become and the role she plays at Hogwarts later, is that she really is getting her first taste of what Albus Dumbledore is like and about what she’s up against. She’s simply… you can see it on her face through reading this chapter that she cannot believe somebody like Dumbledore could possibly exist. He’s such a light in the dark times that the government is trying to… [laughs] Sorry, Andrew is just grinning wildly every time I say something nice about Dumbledore.
Andrew: [laughs] “He’s such a light. He’s big, he’s strong, he’s attractive…”
Eric: He’s a light in shining armor. But somebody like Umbridge can’t believe that he exists, and he’s putting… he’s handling them all so masterfully.
Laura: Yeah, I mean…
Eric: I think she sees him and goes, “Game on.”
Laura: Yeah, and I think Umbridge has an ax to grind with Dumbledore because Fudge does. And think about the other members of the Wizengamot; they’ve probably heard a ton of it, but think about how long she’s heard Fudge complain about Dumbledore. She absolutely thinks that she could do a better job.
Andrew: Yeah. And you know after this trial, Fudge and Umbridge were absolutely fuming in an office somewhere and planning what they were going to do next. I mean, they just feed each other.
Eric: Oh, that’s so right.
Andrew: But we were talking earlier about Dumbledore skedaddling out of the trial very quick, and I admit the first couple of times I read this, I was like, “Damn, that sucks, but it goes along with the narrative of Dumbledore avoiding Harry.” But I have some good excuses now; at least, I think they’re good excuses.
Eric: Oh, God.
Andrew: One could argue he left quickly so as to not appear to be BFFs with Harry. That would not be a good look for them if they were hugging and crying and high-fiving and hooting and hollering and coming off as friends, so I think that’s one reason that Dumbledore left very quickly. I also think we have to remember that Dumbledore said he arrived three hours early to the Ministry. He’s wasted enough time for today; he’s got to get back to work.
Eric: Ugh, yeah. I wonder, although, wasn’t that like he arrived early so that he’s on time? So he wasn’t waiting around for three hours.
Andrew: Um…
Laura: Right, he arrived early on purpose.
Eric: Yeah, if it was originally going to be at 9:00, and he shows up at 6:00, and oop, it’s at 6:10, it’s like, okay…
Andrew: Yes.
Eric: So Dumbledore actually saved three hours. He can hang out with Harry for three hours now that he wasn’t expecting.
Andrew: [laughs] No, but he still doesn’t want to appear to be BFFs with Harry.
Eric: Yeah, yeah. Well, it’s like the end of those courtroom movies – I don’t know – or any movie that ends in a courtroom scene where it’s like… Air Bud, I’m thinking of, and there’s this huge celebration. And in these scenarios, the bad guy is always outnumbered; the bad guy just goes, [grumbles] and everyone’s cheering and crazy. If Dumbledore were seen to be doing that, that would put so much more of a target on him. It would be like rubbing it in that Dumbledore and the boy are best friends, and it would make it worse for Harry in the end.
Monet: I do like the idea of thinking of Dumbledore just chilling at the Ministry of Magic, though.
[Andrew laughs]
Monet: I don’t know, like sleeping overnight, or going and chasing the little memos around, or visiting an old friend in the mystery department or something.
Andrew: You know the Ministry has a good coffee shop on site for all the employees, right? So he’s probably sitting there with his legs crossed, sipping his little cup of coffee, pinky out…
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: … just doing some people-watching, enjoying the morning. Or think of it this way: Okay, so he’s got to go, even though he showed up three hours early, and now he’s got three hours of time to kill. Maybe he blocked out three hours of time on his Google Calendar, and now he’s going to go on a hot breakfast date with somebody, and he’s got to go and take care of that before he’s got to clock into Hogwarts at 9:30. It’s a weekday, after all.
Eric: Now I’m just thinking about him and Grindelwald at the coffee shop from whatever movie that was.
[Andrew and Monet laugh]
Laura: Oh, yeah.
Eric: Dissolves in flame.
Monet: Secrets of Dumbledore.
Eric: Yeah. But the idea of Dumbledore idle is just deeply funny. Idle moments with Dumbledore. What would he be doing?
Andrew: Yeah, because he comes off as a guy who’s always on the move. He never relaxes.
Monet: He goes and tours Buckingham Palace because he’s in London or whatever.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Yeah. So I appreciate all of you coming with me. It feels safety in numbers-y to have you guys of cover this dark topic. It’s a dark chapter, but ultimately, good prevails, thank God. Barely. Harry is allowed to leave with his wand, and that’s the end.
Andrew: Back to Hogwarts!
Eric: Yep, pretty soon. But first, Molly is going to make some meatballs.
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: We’ll see.
Odds & Ends
Eric: But let’s see. We have some odds and ends, don’t we?
Andrew: We do get our first introduction to Umbridge in this chapter, and the line is “She was sitting so far back on the bench that her face was in shadow.” She isn’t named here in that opening line. And this line, this opening line, is very telling. You’ve got to be suspicious of any mystery character we haven’t met yet who is lurking in the shadows, so that was an immediate red flag to me.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: [sinisterly] “The shadows are where she’s most comfortable.” I was picturing Dr. Claw from Inspector Gadget, where you just see…
Laura: That’s amazing.
Eric: You never see his face; it’s just always an arm petting a cat, and I was like, “Oh, that’s so Umbridge.” But…
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: Yeah, it’s just any time where the villain – like Giovanni in Pokémon – all this… you don’t see their face, and that anonymity gives them more power, I think.
Laura: Agreed.
Monet: Yeah, absolutely.
Laura: And Monet, I think you were going to give us some history here that might have inspired this trial. I’m so excited for this.
Monet: Yeah, no, I love history, and I was reading some comparisons to this, and I’ve seen the trial setup here deemed not similar to current justice systems, but more similar to something like the Spanish Inquisition tribunals, where people were just kind of expected to confess or snitch on someone else, or they would… and also the court of Star Chamber, which was founded during the Tudors, and through the Stuarts it got worse and worse, and became super notorious around the time of Charles the First of England. And it was apparently used to bring down the super powerful people who couldn’t really be tried in lower courts, and really used to suppress opposition to any policies by the Royals, and the cases were held in secret, and it really became a byword for abuse of power.
Eric: Whoa.
Monet: And so I feel like that’s really the model that the author was going after here, was that court of the Star Chamber type of… it’s the, I don’t know, weapon of the leader, basically.
Eric: Very cool.
Laura: That is such a good Make the Historical Connection moment. Thank you so much for sharing that with us.
Monet: It’s really cool.
Superlative of the Week
Eric: And now let’s get to our MVP replacement segment, which this week is most awesome middle name of the week.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: We were treated to a lot of legal names in this chapter because it’s being read into the court record. So what is our favorite, our personal favorite, middle name for the various characters?
Andrew: Treated to a lot of middle names, yes. Ignatius, but I’m realizing now I didn’t write down whose middle name that was. [laughs]
Eric: It’s Percy, isn’t it?
Andrew: Pop quiz. Oh yeah, Percy. Ding, ding, ding. I was actually quizzing you.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: Percy Ignatius Weasley. Okay. It’s kind of pompous.
Andrew: Is that an ancestor of a Weasley? I feel like we’ve heard of an Ignatius Weasley.
Eric: There’s an Ignotus Peverell, right?
Laura and Monet: Yeah.
Andrew: That’s what I’m thinking of, yeah.
Laura: Eh, all pure-blood families are interrelated, so I’m sure the Weasleys are related to the Peveralls, too, distantly.
Andrew: I had an enemy named Ignacio, so that’s why Ignatius stood out to me.
[Laura laughs]
Eric and Laura: You had an enemy named Ignacio?
Andrew: Somebody I was with knew an Ignacio, and I didn’t like him very much, if you catch my drift. [laughs]
Laura: Ahh, okay. So he was your enemy; he probably just didn’t know it?
Andrew: Yeah, pretty much.
Laura: Okay. [laughs]
Andrew: Yeah, so now I look at Ignatius and I think of Ignacio, and I’m like, “Grrr.”
Eric: Well, a good Ignacio – although a fictional one – is Nacho Varga from Better Call Saul.
Andrew: Oh, yeah, yeah.
Eric: He’s a good Ignacio. My favorite, most awesome middle name of the week is Doreen. Arabella Doreen Figg. It just works for me.
Laura: I’m going to give mine to Brian, mainly because I love how Dumbledore has this extremely extra name, so it’s Albus Percival Wulfric Brian Dumbledore. Where’s the one normal name come from, Dumby?
Andrew: That is a good question.
Monet: I’m going to give mine to Cornelius Oswald Fudge. I think it’s just a fun name to say, and it feels… it’s an interesting shape in your mouth, the S and the W together.
[Everyone laughs]
Monet: Just from a sound perspective.
Andrew: Yeah, it is a fun one to say. “Oswald.”
Eric: I like it for the same reasons, for sure.
Lynx Line
Eric: Now it’s time to get over to our Lynx Line, where we always have some fun, and I’m really, really happy with the question that we asked this week. I believe Micah supplied this one.
Andrew: He did.
Eric: So hey, even when he’s off, he’s working. This week’s question was: If you were called to the Ministry of Magic to face a disciplinary hearing, what crime or action would it be for, and who would you want as your defense attorney? By the way, Dumbledore off limits. We did not let people answer Dumbledore because obviously he’s the best answer for many situations.
Andrew: [laughs] We got some very creative answers. Rachel said,
“I’d be on trial for violating the Statute of Secrecy. If I continued to work as a math teacher, maybe it’d be because I was using a spell to help students concentrate and/or feel confident doing math. I’d have Luna defend me because she’s never wrong and is good at bringing unique perspectives and arguments.”
Eric: Ooh.
Laura: Yeah, I’d bet on Luna.
Eric: Aww. Yeah, it’s good to have some Luna love. Jennifer says,
“I think I’d be in trouble for using magic in front of a Muggle. Not on purpose, but just out of habit. Hermione would be a great lawyer, since she’s Muggle-born!”
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: I love this bit that second guesses, like, “Oh, could I keep this a secret? If I just were always spelling my coffee to me or something from across the room.”
Laura: You know, I’ve honestly thought of that before. How easy would it be to accidentally break the Statute of Secrecy? Especially if you’re, like, 50 years old, and you’ve been… you grew up in this world, and it’s all you’ve ever known.
Eric: Yeah, yeah.
Andrew: I agree.
Laura: Danielle says,
“Oh, I would for sure be in trouble for my attitude and sassing my teachers and authority in general. It’s basically all I’ve ever been in trouble for my whole life. My mouth.”
[Andrew laughs]
“Not sure which magical character could bail me out of that one… Harry himself got away with a lot of sass, so maybe him!”
Laura: And Danielle included the sassing emoji at the end of that. [laughs]
Monet: Ashley said, “I would be on trial for the illegal breeding of Nifflers that I released into Bezos’s residences.”
[Everyone laughs]
Monet: That’s amazing. “George Weasley would be an excellent defense attorney, I feel.”
Laura: Honestly, that’s a Robin Hood story right there. Beautiful.
Eric: Yeah, I love that one.
Andrew: Carly said,
“One summer during a week-long soccer camp, the sole of my cleats completely wore out and were hanging on to the rest of my shoe by a thread. I had to duct tape the sole back on; it worked, but it was a very uncomfortable solution. I absolutely would’ve fixed my shoe by means of magic if given the chance. If I had been brought before the Ministry for a hearing of fixing my cleats to ‘have an unfair advantage,’ or so they’d claim, I think I’d like Ludo as my attorney. He’s already talked/charmed his way out of his own hearing before. Why not mine? Plus, as the (at the same time) Head of the Department of Games and Sport, he would sympathize with my problem and want to help me out.”
Eric: I love this one.
Laura: Well argued.
Eric: Yeah, yeah, basically because it’s well argued. And nice throwback to the Bagman trial; that was such a small part of that one chapter of the last book. And Catherine wrote in,
“I think I’d be in trouble to giving healing potions to/casting healing spells on Muggles. It always bothered me that the magical community has access to all these healing potions and spells, and they can’t use them to help the world at large. For my defense attorney, I think McGonagall would be an interesting choice. She has compassion for Muggles (because she was in love with a Muggle, after all) and Muggle-born folks, so I could see her siding with me in my mission to help them. Plus, she cannot stand Umbridge, and I would love to see them go toe-to-toe in the courtroom.”
Eric: Agree.
Laura: Ooh, I love that.
Andrew: What a great answer.
Eric: It would be a showdown.
Laura: Shoot, why didn’t I think of McGonagall as a good defense attorney?
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: She’d be fantastic. And our last submission comes from Cassandra, who says,
“I’m on trial for setting free dragons and other imprisoned magical creatures. Newt Scamander is my defense attorney. Yes, I will probably lose, but I’m happy to be a martyr for the cause of helping animals live free.”
I love that.
Eric: I wonder if…
Laura: I’ll break you out of jail. Don’t worry.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Yeah, yeah. Do we think Newt will lose just because…? Not because he’s not persuasive, but because people don’t take it seriously enough?
Andrew and Laura: Yeah.
Andrew: Unfortunately. Patrons, you can read more responses on our Patreon, and thanks to everybody who participated in the Lynx Line benefit; we’re really enjoying having it a part of this run of Chapter by Chapter. And if, listeners, you have any feedback about today’s discussion, you can contact us by emailing or sending a voice memo that’s recorded on your phone to MuggleCast@gmail.com.
Quizzitch
Andrew: And speaking of participation, now it’s time for Quizzitch.
[Quizzitch music plays]
Eric: This week’s question was: What is the middle name of Amelia Bones? And the correct answer was Susan! The same name…
Andrew: Not Ignatius?!
Eric: Not Ignatius; that was not her. So it’s really interesting that Amelia, whose niece is Susan Bones, should share a name with her. I really like the names that travel through the maternal line. 74% of people said they didn’t look it up, which means this is a name that sticks, and the correct answers were submitted by Gwen C.; Snape plays Quizzitch because he can’t play Quidditch; Hairy Pooter and the Dorky Swallos; Ron’s knees after Fred Apparated onto them; Patronus Seeker; Elizabeth K.; Kayla the Proud Puff; JigglyJane; Gritta drinking Gurdyroot tea in a squashy chintz armchair; He’s Not Bock (like a chicken); Accio Monocle!; Happy Charmander; Lady K.; Circle Sown with Fate, Unlock thy Hidden Gate; Meditating with Mandrakes; Shoulda Been a Skele-Gro Spokesperson; and Catherine. Fun names. Here is next week’s Quizzitch question: The UK judicial system established a Supreme Court in 2009, but prior to that, what was the highest court in the UK? That’s a little bit of world history here.
Andrew: [laughs] I was going to say, back to the world history… the Muggle questions.
Eric: I always intended to do more of a broad scope with this Quizzitch, but last week I had to pull something out last minute. Submit your answer to us on the Quizzitch form on the MuggleCast website, MuggleCast.com/Quizzitch, or if you’re on the website checking out transcripts or our must listens page, just click on “Quizzitch” from the main nav bar.
Andrew: Check out our other weekly podcasts, What the Hype?! and Millennial, for more pop culture and real world talk from the four of us. In the latest What the Hype?!, if you’re missing Micah, Micah and Pam discussed the hit Netflix show Cobra Kai. And coming up on Millennial this week, we’re offering up our first ever Holiday gift guide. Laura and I were planning that earlier, and I think it’s going to be a lot of fun.
Laura: Yeah, I’m excited.
Andrew: This show is brought to you by Muggles like you. Listener support is the only reason we’ve been able to podcast for 19 years and counting. Don’t forget, use code “SIRIUS” at MuggleCastMerch.com for 15% off your order now through Cyber Monday. You can also visit Patreon.com/MuggleCast/gift to send a Patreon membership to a loved one. One of the perks is joining the queue to become a MuggleCast co-host one day, just like Monet did today. Thanks for joining us, Monet; it was great having you on.
Monet: Thank you so much. That was so fun.
Andrew: Awesome. Glad you had a good time, and thanks for everything that you contributed today. While you were on vacation! Extra points for that.
[Andrew and Monet laugh]
Laura: That’s dedication.
Andrew: By coming on the show, too, we look at your background and talk to you for ten minutes about it. We were discussing the color of Monet’s wall for way longer than I would have ever thought we would.
[Andrew and Monet laugh]
Laura: Yeah. Listen, this is just part of being in our 30s now, Andrew.
Andrew: That’s true.
Eric: “Is that Comfort Gray?” she says through the Zoom screen.
Andrew: I’ve picked apart every corner of Eric, Micah, and Laura’s backdrops at this point, so when somebody new comes on, it’s a new camera to stare at.
Eric: It’s a free-for-all, yes, yes. New material.
Andrew: “What’s going on? Who created that artwork behind you? What wattage is that lightbulb in that lamp?” [laughs] Yes, this is 35; you’re right, Laura. This is very much 35. Anyway, if you enjoy MuggleCast and think other Muggles would too, tell a friend about the show, and we would appreciate a five star review if you love the show in your favorite podcast app. Thanks, everybody, for listening. I’m Andrew.
Eric: I’m Eric.
Laura: I’m Laura.
Monet: I’m Monet.
Andrew: And we will be off next week for the Thanksgiving holiday. Happy Thanksgiving to all of our American listeners; we are thankful for you, and we will be back with new episodes in December. Bye, everybody.
Laura: Bye, y’all.
Eric and Monet: Bye.