Transcript for MuggleCast Episode #747, Moaning with Dr. Myrtle (HBP Chapter 21, The Unknowable Room)
Cold Open
Eric: “This creature’s beneath you. Why do you give him your time?” And Draco would be like, “You’re right. Why do I give him my time, Father? You suck, Dobby.”
[Everyone laughs]
Show Intro
[Show music plays]
Andrew Sims: Welcome to MuggleCast, your weekly ride into the world of Harry Potter. I’m Andrew.
Eric Scull: I’m Eric.
Micah Tannenbaum: I’m Micah.
Laura Tee: And I’m Laura.
Andrew: And we’re your Harry Potter friends, here to talk about the books and the movies and the upcoming TV show, so be sure to follow us in your podcast app, and you’ll never miss an episode. This week, we hope you know the difference between a ghost and an Inferius, because we’re discussing Chapter 21 of Half-Blood Prince, “The Unknowable Room.” Before we continue, if you love this show as much as Harry loves trying to break into the Room of Requirement, we invite you to support us at Patreon.com/MuggleCast right now. We’ll hook you up with bonus episodes of the show, ad-free episodes, livestreams – we recently moved livestreams once a month to Saturday mornings, which hopefully should work for people – you get to hang out with us once a month on Zoom, and lots more. We can’t do this without you, so thank you so much for your support.
Eric: Yeah. Speaking of the livestreams, we have people from Sweden and South Africa, and North Carolina, New York, Utah, all of that, just now listening live to us right now, and you could be among them.
Andrew: I’m getting stage fright. Dang, why do you have to say that?
[Laura laughs]
Eric: I’m sorry, Andrew, I was trying to keep it from you, but there’s just too many countries; I’ve got to list ’em.
Andrew: [laughs] There are other great ways to support us, to help us run this podcast. You can also leave a review in your favorite podcast app, you can tell a fellow Muggle about our show, and you can visit MuggleCastMerch.com to buy shirts, hats, glassware, all kinds of cool things.
Chapter by Chapter: Pensieve
Andrew: All right, so let’s jump into Chapter 21 of Half-Blood Prince, “The Unknowable Room.”
Eric: And we last discussed this on Episode 412, called “Determinedly.” Think that refers to Harry. And this is double duty here; this Pensieve clip is a mind-blowing comment from Laura that still makes my jaw drop, and it also foreshadows this week’s Lynx Line question. Roll the clip.
Dumbledore: What you are looking at are memories. This is the most important memory I’ve collected. It is from MuggleCast Episode 412.
[Sound of memory uncorking]
[Sound of plunging into Pensieve]
Laura: I was wondering, given the chapter title, if what Draco had asked for was an unknowable room. Because I remember after reading the chapter, I was like, “Well, it’s the Room of Requirement. Why is this chapter called ‘The Unknowable Room’?” And then I’m wondering if this is something outside of the purview of what we see as readers, if that is what Draco asked for.
Eric: That’s a good question.
Andrew: What other phrases would we use to get into the room? I’m thinking, “Bring me the blonde.”
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Andrew: “Give me the room where the blonde is.”
Laura: And then it just shows Luna Lovegood. She just pops up.
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: “Damn it! Not you, Luna.”
[Sound of exiting Pensieve]
Dumbledore: This memory is everything.
Micah: I feel like Laura has solved the room. There’s no more to talk about in this chapter.
Laura: Cool. Well, we’ll see you next time. Bye.
Chapter by Chapter: Main Discussion
Micah: Actually, that’s where I was going to start, because it felt like there wasn’t a whole lot that happens in this chapter. However, I did want to go back to one of the larger themes, and this takes us back to the first chapter of this book, and I thought we could spend a little bit of time discussing it, because it’s a line that is delivered by Fudge to the Muggle Prime Minister, and he says, “The trouble is, the other side can do magic too, Prime Minister.” And the reason why this came to mind is because we have both Crabbe and Goyle, that Harry figures out in this chapter have been using Polyjuice Potion. This is something that we saw Harry and Ron use in Chamber of Secrets for… they’re looking to use it for their own means. And then we see Draco using the Room of Requirement, and we know that Harry used this room for Dumbledore’s Army in Order of the Phoenix. So yes, the other side can do magic too, and they’re using it for their own means. So is it fair to say that Draco is taking a page out of Harry’s book here?
Eric: I love this.
Andrew and Laura: Yeah.
Andrew: I think so.
Laura: Absolutely.
Eric: He’s probably like, “That’ll show Potter,” as he goes and does what Potter did, but to use it against him.
Andrew: But I do wonder if Draco borrowing Harry’s ideas in this way makes him despise Harry even more. He hates that he’s kind of relying on Harry in a way, to get the deal done.
Eric: [laughs] It’s like that Onion headline, which is like, “The worst person you know just made a great point.” He’s like, “Oh, darn. This will help me thwart Dumbledore.”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: Yeah, I’m really curious to know what ever came about as far as Harry and Ron making it into the Slytherin common room in year two. I wonder if they were ever suspected… if Draco really ever figured out that that was somebody in there trying to figure out if he was the Heir or Slytherin or not. Or not, because there’s never any immediate blow back. Obviously, there’s not detention or consequences. But I’m kind of interested if, in the years that followed, Malfoy was like, “Oh, yeah, so they use Polyjuice? Okay.” And then, actually, props to him, though, because he’s the one that eyeballed the big vat of Polyjuice at day one Slughorn’s lesson, and managed somehow throughout class, while everyone else was paying attention to something else, to get some, and in fact, enough for Crabbe and Goyle all year.
Laura: Yeah. Yeah, so both Harry and Malfoy walked away from that class with a potion.
Eric: Ohh.
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: Yeah, that ultimately helps set their trajectory in the book.
Eric: There you go.
Andrew: Yeah. I do also wonder, just talking about Draco borrowing these ideas from Harry, if it almost kind of foreshadows Harry and Draco being cool after the events of Book 7. You know what I mean? Like, “Oh, we actually do have something in common. The way we tackle challenges is similar.”
Eric: Yeah, I think there’s something to that, for sure.
Micah: Yeah. I just like the fact that here we are in the sixth book, and for so long we’ve thought of it from the perspective of Harry. It makes sense because we are reading it from his perspective, but we have other students who are using magic as, as I said earlier, kind of a means to an end. And when we look at it through Harry’s lens, we’re always so quick to say, “Oh, well, he’s doing it for good reasons,” but when we look at it, let’s say, through Draco’s lens, the tendency is to think, “Well, he’s not doing it for good reasons.” But actually, he’s doing it to save his own life and protect his family, which I know maybe we can talk a little bit more about probably in the next chapter, as we get to see him being a little bit more vulnerable through Myrtle.
Eric: Yeah. No, I just love that you were able to pick out this plot and be like, “This is…” You really elevated the “The other side can do magic too” line to a thesis statement, and to look at a chapter like… no, it really is, because this pays off. This is so apt. It’s 100% for me.
Micah: And this is a little bit more maybe on the juvenile side of things, right? Because we’re going to get to the point where the other side is going to be using magic to do serious harm to Harry and company.
Eric: Right, right.
Micah: So one of the things that Hermione consistently reminds Harry about throughout the chapter is that his eyes are not on the prize, right? So we were just talking about Draco and his disappearing act, the fact that Harry is so consumed with “What is Draco doing?” throughout the course of this school year, and she’s really adamant that he should be trying to retrieve Slughorn’s memory, but he is so preoccupied with Draco. And putting Hermione aside, because we know she’s been a little bit of a thorn – this has been something that she’s been really focused on – I thought, shouldn’t he be more focused, just given how testy Dumbledore was with him during their last lesson? Shouldn’t that be enough of a motivating factor for Harry?
Laura: Plus, Hermione is just right, as usual.
Andrew: It was a brilliant thought, yeah. Her line is, “It’s not a question of tricking him or bewitching him, or Dumbledore could have done it in a second. Instead of messing around outside the Room of Requirement, you should go and find Slughorn and start appealing to his better nature.” I loved hearing this from Hermione because Dumbledore is training Harry to manipulate people, not unlike what we saw from Tom Riddle in the memories.
Eric: Huh.
Andrew: And I think there’s also a bit of a parallel here between Harry and Dumbledore. Draco is Harry’s tough nut to crack, and Slughorn is Dumbledore’s tough nut to crack, and both Harry and Dumbledore are refusing to give up their respective metaphorical nuts.
Eric: There’s the episode title. “Tough Nuts.”
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: Oh, not “Metaphorical Nuts”?
Eric: I think it’s… yeah, well, parenthesis, “(to crack.)”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: Yeah, well, shouldn’t Hermione be taking lessons with Dumbledore? She’s so willing to… she’s so loyal to… to everything he tells Harry, Hermione is right there going, “Yeah, you’ve got to do that. Dumbledore obviously makes sense with what he’s doing, Harry.” And it’s just like, “You should take lessons with him, then. In fact, then he could give you the Horcrux books and tell you all about that.” I don’t know.
Laura: She’s not the Chosen One, though.
Andrew: Exactly.
Eric: That’s right, she’s not the Chosen One, so she should sit back and let Harry’s process roll out. No, Harry completely wastes his time. This entire chapter is just him wasting time. It’s not even that not much happens in this chapter; it’s a whole lot of nothing happens in this chapter because Harry can’t get in the room and he’s wasting time spinning wheels.
Micah: It does feel like this chapter, there are smaller events that take place that are setting up bigger events in the later chapters, even going into Deathly Hallows. But with Dumbledore, should he have offered Harry just a little bit more guidance? It feels like he’s operating on an island here. “Yeah, just go get Slughorn’s memory. No big deal, Harry.”
Andrew: [laughs] No.
Eric: No?
Andrew: Well, I think I brought up this point a few weeks ago, but it’s worth reiterating: Dumbledore might be wanting Harry to think for himself so that he can practice for what’s ahead when Dumbledore is no longer in the picture. And I think this is also training Harry to bounce ideas off of Ron and Hermione, who also will be helping Harry in the next book, once Dumbledore is Dumbledead.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: If Harry truly cannot figure this out for himself in time, Dumbledore would have eventually given him some big brain guidance, I think. And even though Dumbledore was frustrated a chapter or two ago with Harry’s progress, I think Dumbledore knows they’re truly not out of time just yet, so he can let Harry continue to cook and see what he comes up with.
Laura: Yeah. Also, I agree; I think this is an intentional choice to test Harry and to prepare him for what’s to come. Because Dumbledore tells him, at the beginning of the year, “Hey, Slughorn is trying to collect you. This is why I brought you, to even convince him to come back to Hogwarts, because there’s something that we need from him.” And if Harry had leaned into the flattery, been engaged in the Slug Club from the very start, Harry could have probably gotten this out of Slughorn, much in the same way that Tom got information about the Horcruxes out of him, and Harry wouldn’t need the Felix Felicis. But because he didn’t do any of that, now he needs Felix.
Eric: Well, I don’t know, because Harry isn’t that way, though. Harry is not a flatterer. Harry is not somebody that leans in or enjoys being among elite social company.
Laura: Oh, no, I agree.
Eric: And so I think it would be a mistake for Dumbledore to just let Harry run wild. How much of this hands-off approach is because he trusts Harry, and how much of it is because he has no idea how to actually get the memory from Slughorn? So I’m a little interested in that. I mean, maybe he credits Harry with being much more like Tom than he should. Maybe we should all be offended as readers, like, “Oh, you think he’s like little Voldemort.” What does that say about the Horcrux connection between them two? A bit of Tom brushed off and landed on Harry after his parents died; how much…? The fact that you would just go around flattering teachers and be wildly successful at it? It turns out, yes, but Harry’s natural inclination is not to flatter or be fake. He’s just real.
Laura: Yeah. And actually, Eric, I really love the push that you’re giving here, and it almost makes me rethink my original point, because Dumbledore does at some point… I can’t remember if it’s before this point or if it’s after he’s Dumbledead and they’re reconvening at the dream King’s Cross, where Dumbledore says something along the lines of, “People who are in powerful positions… the best people to do that are the people who don’t want to,” because people who would seek power and influence usually have ulterior motives. So maybe this is even Dumbledore testing Harry to see, “Do you have any of that in you, or are you actually still as motivationally pure as I’ve always known you to be?” In which case, that does set Harry up for success ultimately. Sometimes he kind of fumbles his way to success, but it still works for him. So no, I like it. I like it.
Eric: That’s Harry’s autobiography title, by the way. “Fumble Your Way to Success.”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: “Seven Big Tips for Becoming the Next Chosen One,” by Harry James Potter.
[Ad break]
Micah: Well, we know that Harry is going to continue struggling with this task, at least until the next chapter, but we’re going to refocus ourselves back to Draco, because that is Harry’s… he just can’t kick it. He can’t quit Draco; that’s what’s going on here. And who should show up? Dobby and Kreacher, a.k.a. the duo we didn’t know we needed until Deathly Hallows, where they’re just great comedy together. But they’ve shown up to report back on Draco’s movements, and this is the first and only report, I believe, we get from these two. And before we get to the information that they have on Draco, I wanted to ask about Dobby’s behavior in particular, because I think Harry should have been a bit more mindful of what he was asking the former Malfoy house-elf to do, right? He’s having him trail Draco, to report back on what he’s doing. And there’s clearly something still in the back of Dobby’s mind that is leading to him wanting to punish himself, and I think it’s just probably… I mean, I don’t know how long Dobby served as the Malfoys’ house-elf, but we’re talking at least probably decades of service. And he goes to try and burn his hands after delivering the report. The other thing, too, that Harry wasn’t mindful of was telling him, “Hey, man, you don’t have to be doing this 24/7.”
Andrew: “Don’t take everything so literally.”
Eric: [laughs] “Gosh, Dobby.”
Micah: Dobby didn’t sleep. He didn’t sleep. The poor house-elf.
Andrew: It’s fascinating, because this shows you you have to be really careful with your words when you’re giving a house-elf instructions. In terms of Dobby wanting to punish himself, yes, I think, like you said, he was the Malfoys’ house-elf for probably decades. He is younger than Kreacher, too – markedly younger, it seems – so I think he is still unwinding what he was doing for years and years, and even though he is not technically Harry’s house-elf, he feels fiercely loyal to Harry, and so he is up for taking his request so literally.
Eric: And don’t we all have that friend who sometimes goes a bit far because they care, and it’s like you’ve kind of got to be mindful with what you ask? I think Harry was out of options when he brought Dobby and Kreacher on, but yes, he should have ultimately been… I mean, I don’t want to say Harry is… he’s not a jerk, but he’s not thoughtful, right? So there’s years that go by without him ever visiting Hedwig in her owlery. People that he – or creatures – that he is affiliated with, he doesn’t always check in with them or make sure that what he’s asked them to do doesn’t deprive them of critical sleep.
Laura: Right.
Eric: But it does come down to Dobby is willing to do it. I wonder what Kreacher’s report would have looked like without Dobby there, if Dobby weren’t in the picture tailing him.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: It’s a great point.
Laura: Yeah, it seems like Kreacher was trying to slow walk his report. Ultimately, he knows Harry is his master, so he has to give him the information, but he’s not going to make it super convenient. But just revisiting the Dobby point really quickly here, I think it is important to recognize Dobby is free. He doesn’t have to take orders from anyone, including Harry. But I think this also speaks to the fact, Micah, you were talking about: This was Dobby’s pretty much entire life experience, so free or not, Dobby still has this blueprint…
Eric: Old habit?
Laura: … for how he navigates life, right? So he’s still, to the points that are being brought up here, so… he has such a tendency to still default to that, especially if it’s somebody that he’s very comfortable following through for stuff on. So yeah, Harry could be more thoughtful here. It also makes me wonder, is Kreacher sleeping?
Micah: Probably.
Laura: Is Kreacher also depriving himself?
Micah: I don’t see Kreacher engaging at the same level Dobby is.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: [imitating Kreacher] “He didn’t mean it that way, around the clock monitoring.”
Micah: But I also wonder at times what the relationship was between Dobby and Draco. It’s interesting because we see the relationship – or we learn more about it, obviously, in Deathly Hallows – between Regulus and Kreacher, and I wonder sometimes if the relationship between the youth and the house-elf is much closer than maybe the relationship between the parents. We know Lucius treats Dobby horribly, but we don’t really know how Draco treated Dobby. Maybe there was a little bit of a softer relationship there, so maybe he’s not totally committed to tailing Draco.
Laura: Yeah. I could definitely see a possibility in which Dobby and any house-elf would be sort of commanded to be a caretaker for young children, so maybe Dobby and Draco had more of a relationship when Draco was a child, but I feel like the second Draco embarks on adolescence and growing his own sense of self – which is really just what his parents are projecting at this point – I think he would just turn into a little jerk. And yeah, it was probably horrible for Dobby, because if he was there from when Draco was born, he presumably had this child that he had cared for being a complete ass to him when he reached a certain age.
Eric: Well, right, and if you think about young Draco… I mean, Draco lost Dobby when he was 12, so when you think about Draco Malfoy at age 11 and 12, he just parroted whatever his parents said. So the second that Lucius stumbled in and saw Draco being kind to Dobby, Lucius would be like, “Oh, Draco, this is the help. You don’t need to thank the help. This creature’s beneath you. Why do you give him your time?”
Laura: Totally.
Eric: And Draco would be like, “You’re right. Why do I give him my time, Father? You suck, Dobby.”
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: It was obviously a bad enough situation for Dobby to get… by the way, I’m going to write my own little play of young Malfoy and Dobby. I think I’m inspired.
Micah: Okay.
Eric: But yeah, it was bad enough for Dobby to leave.
Laura: I like the voices.
Eric: Thank you.
Andrew: Finish the Ginny fanfiction first.
Eric: Thank you. Thank you for reminding me.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: Or just weave all together. There’s a way.
Eric: Okay.
Andrew: Two birds, one stone.
[Laura laughs]
Micah: And there is a really nice connecting to threads moment here I just thought of, in that Dobby is reporting back on the Malfoys, right? This is exactly what he did in Chamber of Secrets, and he’s doing it again here in Half-Blood Prince.
Laura: Love that.
Micah: So the information that Dobby provides – we won’t include Kreacher here, because Kreacher was definitely slow playing it, as was alluded to earlier – Harry is able… he has an epiphany; it’s the Room of Requirement. That is where Draco is going. Why did it take Harry and Hermione 452 pages to realize that Draco was using the Room of Requirement, given how much time they spent there in Order of the Phoenix?
Laura: And also given the fact that they know Draco knows about it, because he’s the one who caught them there.
Micah: Right.
Laura: Come on, y’all.
Andrew: Yeah. Could it be the fact that they kind of feel like they own the room, like it was their place? I know anybody can access it, and it can provide whatever they want, but maybe they just… they were so proud of themselves for having the Room of Requirement, they didn’t think Draco would come up with it too?
Eric: I think that’s probably exactly it. But you ever go past a restaurant where you had a really good meal, you’re just driving by it on a road or a highway, and you look and you’re like, “Oh yeah, that’s the place I went to”? We see Harry and Hermione and Ron walk right by the room – in fact, walk past these little girls – multiple times, and at nowhere in Harry’s head is it like, “We’re by the Room of Requirement now.” But if you loved a room the way I think they love that room and come to rely on it, you would always be like, “Oh yeah, this is the corridor where the Room of Requirement is.” You wouldn’t just be so engrossed in conversation you wouldn’t realize where that cool restaurant was.
Andrew: I like that restaurant analogy because I actually drove by a restaurant a few weeks ago and I saw Draco there, and I was like, “Dude, that’s my spot.”
Eric: Augh. And then you sat down together because there was a bar, and you said, “Bring me the blonde.” And it was a blonde ale that you got.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Micah: Well, after Harry finds out this information… and it is interesting, because he has back-to-back epiphanies, and I know we’re going to talk about another epiphany that he has in the next chapter, just things he’s casually forgot about throughout the course of this book. When he goes to bed on that night, he has a dream, and I wanted to call it out because we know that the dreams that Harry has just aren’t happenstance; they usually mean something. And he had a dream where Malfoy turned into Slughorn, who turned into Snape.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: And I just wanted to ask the group, what do we make of this?
Andrew: Three thorns in his side right now.
Eric: Ahh.
Micah: There you go. I love it.
Eric: That’s another good episode title.
Andrew: Hashtag #MakeTheConnection.
Eric: Yeah, it’s weird because he just figured out that some actual transformation was happening with two Slytherins; now he has this dream where everything’s morphing together. But yeah, I think it’s just the piling-up list of responsibilities, or sort of problems for Harry to tackle, for sure. And that’s actually a good thing about sleep and sometimes dreams, is they can show us a path forward, or they can summarize, kind of. “By the way, Harry, here’s your nightly Hermione report of what you still haven’t fixed.” Yeah, I think it’s probably that.
Andrew: This portion of the show brought to you by Casper Mattress.
Laura: Harry should get one for Dobby.
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: Not only should you sleep a full eight hours, Dobby, get good sleep. You deserve it.
Eric: But I think we also have to give Malfoy some flowers that it went this long. Whatever he was doing, the means that he was doing it actually succeeded in keeping Harry off his scent, and Ron and Hermione. He has the full power of Hermione behind him and they still didn’t figure this out for 452 pages. We often hear about Draco having good grades – he’s comparable to Hermione in that regard, which I still find hard to believe – but if he’s a good student, if he’s actually a smart student… we know him as a little piss-ant, but he’s smart, and he solved this. He figured out how to not tip off Harry, Ron, and Hermione for this long? That’s pretty impressive.
Micah: Definitely is. Well, Andrew, you mentioned Casper Mattresses, and we do need to hear a quick word from our sponsors, and we’ll be right back after this break to talk more about Draco and Snape, two emo Slytherins.
Eric: It would be really weird if there was a Casper Mattress ad that played right now.
[Micah laughs]
[Ad break]
Micah: Well, you know who doesn’t sleep on a Casper Mattress? Snape.
Andrew: Oh, yeah. No wonder he’s so cranky all the time. [laughs]
Micah: And Snape is in pretty rare form in this chapter. There’s probably other moments in the series we can point to where he’s this vicious, but I’m curious what’s going on with him here. Is his more-than-sassy attitude due to Draco? Dumbledore? Did he just not have his coffee this morning? Because the way he treats Harry and Ron… not becoming of a professor.
Eric: The guy just got his dream job; has he tried being a little happier? I don’t know. Has he tried cracking a smile every once in a while? He’s doing what he loves to do! But I go back to day one of year one, where he’s like, “If you aren’t the usual bunch of dunderheads I usually have to teach,” and it’s like, oh, he actually just hates the students too. It’s not even just hating teaching; it’s hating the students. So I don’t think he’s ever going to be happy.
Andrew: Also, he was just fighting with Dumbledore last chapter, two chapters ago.
Eric: Yes.
Andrew: A fight so heated that they didn’t hear Rubeus so-big-he-looks-like-three-people Hagrid walking nearby.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: Rubeus dolphin-footed Hagrid.
Andrew: [laughs] He’s probably just still very frustrated with Draco and Dumbledore. We were just talking about Harry, his thorns in his side; Snape’s got a few right now too that he’s juggling. And then you mix that in with his usual hatred for the kids, and it’s just a vicious combination.
Micah: Well, Draco is a shared thorn in both Snape and Harry’s side at this point.
Eric: And Voldemort, kind of. And Dumbledore. Yeah, so no, I think it’s worth noting that maybe Snape actually cares about Dumbledore, and so being asked to kill somebody – and he knows that’s got to happen pretty much by the end of the year – he’s still bitter about it. He’s the only one to do it, and it’s protecting Draco’s soul. I think there’s that conversation between Snape and Dumbledore that we hear eventually, like, “What about my soul?” And Dumbledore is like, “You’ll be fine.” But maybe that conversation just happened last night, and that would explain why Snape is so miserable.
Micah: Well, the whole point of us being in this Defense Against the Dark Arts class is to talk about the Inferi. And it was made clear at the beginning of this chapter that had Harry just listened to Snape in year one about bezoars, he wouldn’t have had to get any assistance from the Half-Blood Prince. And so I’m wondering, should Harry also be paying attention to what Snape is teaching him about Inferi? And I just wanted to call back the line at the beginning of the chapter when Harry says, “Don’t worry, Hermione. If it hadn’t been for the Prince, Ron wouldn’t be sitting here now.” And she responded, “He would if you’d just listened to Snape in our first year.”
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: Which is a little unfair. I mean, you’re…
Laura: Yeah, come on, girl.
Andrew: Five years ago? It’s not a great argument from Hermione. We all forget things that we were taught. I don’t remember anything from school.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: I really think that sometimes.
Laura: I don’t know if that’s true.
Andrew: Should I cut that? Is that too…? Okay.
Laura: No, no. Leave it.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Yeah, I feel similarly. It is a tall ask from Hermione, especially because bezoars were covered during that first lesson, and not only that, but it was one of the questions Snape was asking Harry when he was bullying him! We don’t hear bezoars coming up again in that book, so if Hermione is expecting Harry to remember the rapid fire questions that, of course, only she knew the answer to at that moment, while he was having to contend with the fact that a teacher doesn’t like him, sorry, that’s just unreasonable. Hermione is being unreasonable right now.
Laura: I think this is just a “Hint, hint” for the reader. Like, “Hey, reader, maybe you forgot about Snape saying this in Book 1, so you should remember this moment where we’re talking about Inferi right now, because they’re going to come into play sooner than you think.”
Eric: Well, and furthermore, the fact this establishes that Snape knows about bezoars, and Snape is the Half-Blood Prince. So who wrote in this book, “Just shove a bezoar down their throats?” Oh.
Laura: Yep. And yet, still not connecting the dots.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: I know, and I did mean to mention this when we first started the discussion; there’s a lot of heavy allusion in this chapter in particular to the fact that Snape is the Half-Blood Prince, just in the writing, and how close Snape’s name is to Half-Blood Prince at times. And so I think that… obviously we’re getting to that reveal in the next few chapters, but as you point out, it’s been there all along. All right, well, Harry should hopefully remember Inferi, because they’re coming in the next few chapters as well. But as they’re leaving Defense Against the Dark Arts – one of the few times we see Harry and Ron pop into the bathroom – they run into Moaning Myrtle, and what a surprise that they should see her, just like they spent so much time with her in Chamber of Secrets. But she gives them some information, and we’re not told exactly who this person is, but I think we can certainly infer…
Andrew: Aw.
Micah: … and Draco is in over his head. The passage that Myrtle gives about him is that “he’s sensitive, people bully him too, and he feels lonely and hasn’t got anybody to talk to, and he’s not afraid to show his feelings and cry!”
Andrew: Moaning Myrtle is his therapist. There is therapy at Hogwarts; you just have to go to Moaning Myrtle.
Eric: [laughs] She is not going to be a good therapist. Oh my God.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: And once she finds out… because she was so heavily bullied, and I don’t think she really has a lot of perspective from that. I don’t think she’s worked through her own issues yet.
Andrew: I do feel bad for Draco, though. He didn’t ask for any of this. Similar to how Tom Riddle was born out of a false romance, Draco was born into this evil family, at least from Lucius’s side. And I’m not directly comparing the two here, but since we see both Tom and Draco pay the price for their bad families in this book, I thought that was worth mentioning. A little parallel.
Eric: Yeah, and I think it definitely humanizes Draco. And he isn’t able to talk to anyone else, right? So Crabbe and Goyle… a big thing about the Polyjuice connection is that Harry, Ron, and Hermione were all going to take Polyjuice. They were all going to go to the Slytherin common room. As friends, they were all on a mission. And in contrast, what Crabbe and Goyle are doing with Polyjuice is kind of against their will. Draco is commanding them. It’s not like Draco is able to bring in Crabbe and Goyle and say, “This is what we’re all trying to achieve here.” He stations them outside while he goes and does his thing. So his friendships are scattered or incomplete, and he doesn’t have any friend, like Harry does, that he would rely on, and so he’s going to this bathroom and crying to a ghost of a dead girl who died 50 years ago, and finding some kind of common ground. And you do feel for Malfoy, but also, he doesn’t have what Harry has in terms of friendship.
Andrew and Laura: Yeah.
Laura: And I just have to point out Myrtle Warren is Muggle-born, so not only is Draco Malfoy…
Eric: Really!
Laura: Yeah, not only is he confiding in the ghost of a 12-year-old girl, she’s Muggle-born.
Micah: So we definitely see that the stakes are rising for Draco. And I agree, I think we can feel a bit of sympathy for him here, and at the end of the day, he is just a 16-year-old kid. Well, the chapter wraps up. Harry is still trying to be a sleuth and catch Draco at the Room of Requirement. He bumps into Tonks, and there’s a little awkward exchange between the two of them. She’s definitely in a bit of a state, a little emotional. She’s looking for Dumbledore. But we don’t really get a whole lot more context as to what’s going on, and Harry relays what’s happened to Ron and Hermione, and that’s kind of how the chapter wraps up. There’s no big cliffhanger as we head into the next chapter, but did want to talk a little bit about Tonks just wandering around the castle. She’s supposed to be on guard duty. She just seems out of sorts.
Eric: Yeah, what I find really interesting about this is that Harry, in talking with Tonks, gets a distinct impression that her feelings might be related to unrequited love. He straight up at the end of the chapter – or beginning of the next one; I forget – asks Ron and Hermione if it’s possible that Tonks could have been in love with Sirius. Because when he tries to relate to Tonks in this chapter on the Sirius front, it goes nowhere, because he’s referring to Sirius as like, “Oh, my lost godfather.” But he gets the distinct impression that Tonks is lovesick, and I’ve got to love noticing nondescript… usually he doesn’t notice anything, and he picked up on sort of this source of Tonks’s anxiety here. Good for him.
Laura: Yeah, but also… and I mean, granted, I know that within pure-blood families, there’s a lot of intermarrying that happens and everything, but is it so normalized that Harry forgets that they’re cousins? [laughs]
Eric: I think it’s just based on the strength of the vibe he gets.
Laura: Okay.
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: Keeping it in the family. Got it.
Andrew: [laughs] That is weird, Laura. You’re right.
Eric: I mean, in my headcanon, Sirius wouldn’t go for her either, because Sirius and Lupin are together, but that’s my headcanon.
Micah: Reminds me of the Lannisters. Well, and the Targaryens too. Wasn’t uncommon.
Eric: Why don’t you just list any family from Game of Thrones?
Micah: Got to keep the blood pure, baby. Anyway.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: I’m going to make that a clip. I’m going to play that.
Andrew: Cold open.
Odds & Ends
Micah: Just a few odds and ends as we wrap up this chapter. Wanted to connect some threads – I know we did a little bit in our discussion – but Harry is once again searching to find a hidden entrance, much like in Chamber of Secrets. He is looking to the entrance for the Room of Requirement. And Moaning Myrtle, she’s dealing with a Slytherin student in a bathroom who is up to no good. I feel like we could just go on and on here with a lot of the threads that can be connected between Book 2 and Book 6. But we will end on our good friend, Mundungus Fletcher, who has been arrested. Probably worth noting, he’s a member of the Order of the Phoenix. We know he’s a bit of a sleazebag…
Andrew: Oh, yeah.
Micah: … but he is off to Azkaban? That wasn’t very clear.
Andrew: Hmm.
Laura: He’ll be back. It’s fine.
Eric: Not his first time, yeah.
Andrew: According to the article, his Wiki, he does go off to Azkaban.
Micah: Well, good for him.
Andrew: [laughs] Good for him. Have a nice time.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: He would be the one who would figure out how to sell things to the Dementors in exchange for better treatment.
Andrew: Just quickly, Gabby said, “I really dislike this Tonks storyline. What, she’s having some relationship issues and becomes useless?” Yeah, I haven’t really been a fan of this thread either.
Laura: I agree.
Eric: Yeah, it’s not a Tonks thing; I think it’s the way she’s written, given almost nothing to do except pine for a man she can’t have. Like, what? I will say, though, that the way that it comes across feels like she’s received the same treatment from Dumbledore that Harry did last book, and I think it’s easier to read Tonks this way, as so desperate… if you really want to blame Dumbledore for not taking her call, because if… what month is it right now? We’re in spring?
Andrew: Spring, yeah.
Eric: Yeah, we’re in spring. So if Dumbledore hasn’t been willing to talk to her, and he’s always leaving the school, and she goes up to the gargoyle, she talks to them, and he’s not there… I would be about this desperate right around springtime if I had to talk to Dumbledore and he weren’t taking my calls, so there’s that.
Micah: Yeah, I’d like to know more about this, just because I wonder if she was really looking for Dumbledore, or if that was just her excuse.
Andrew: Right.
Laura: I mean, isn’t she trying to get…? Because she asked Harry if he’s heard from anyone in the Order, right? And I think it’s because Remus has been underground doing werewolf stuff, and she probably hasn’t heard from him in a while, and she’s probably trying to find information, trying to see if Dumbledore knows about Remus’s whereabouts, because he’s ghosting her.
Eric: Well, right. Dumbledore, meanwhile, is like, “I’ve told you, Tonks. He’s just not that into you.”
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: “Quit asking me. I’m leaving the school to get away from you. Quit asking me where Remus is.”
Lynx Line
Micah: Well, it is now time for our Lynx Line, which is basically our MVP segment as well. We should just…
Andrew: Yeah, we’re merging these going forward, everyone.
Eric and Micah: Yeah.
Micah: So I think this was alluded to last time, but it’ll just show you how great our patrons are in answering these questions in comparison to our answers.
Andrew: [laughs] I’m proud of mine!
Eric: Yeah, me too.
Micah: No, no, sometimes we deliver, but I always feel like our patrons are a step ahead.
Andrew: They’re very creative people.
Micah: Yes. And this actually ties back to the Pensieve segment from earlier: What would you say to make the Room of Requirement open for you to reveal what Draco is up to? Wrong answers only.
Andrew: So I’m thinking, “Sunshine, daisies, butter mellow, show me the room where Draco bellows.”
[Laura laughs]
Eric: It’s perfect. It’s so good. I just put, “Show me what I want, or the next time I get in there, I’ll burn you down with Fiendfyre.” Too soon? Too soon?
Andrew: Oooh, nice little threat.
Micah: I went with, “Draco, come to Mummy.”
[Everyone laughs]
Micah: Does Narcissa not say that in Deathly Hallows – Part 2? It’s something like that, right?
Andrew: Oh, yeah, something like that.
Laura: She says something like that, yeah. Mine… I went with, “Show me Draco’s side hustle.”
Andrew: [laughs] Okay.
Eric: You’re going to be taken to a room where he brews beer. It’s on the side. [laughs]
Andrew: Over on Patreon, Michael W. said, “I have desperately been trying to reach Draco about his car’s extended warranty.”
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: Yeah, that’s great.
Laura: That’s really good.
Eric: Oh, man.
Micah: That will definitely not open.
Eric: Oh, yeah, no, it’s going to close up for good. Actually, it’ll close around you and banish you. Rachelpuff says, “I solemnly swear that Draco is up to no good.”
Micah: Rachel S. says, “I know Draco is in there watching Real Housewives of Hogsmeade, and I have to get all the tea.”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Laura: Eleanor a.k.a. Lorien says, “The fanfiction edit… Room. Find me a very attractive, sardonic, morally dubious, platinum blonde-haired bad boy with daddy issues who can get a bit obsessive (in a good way).”
Andrew: Zachary said, “If you don’t show me what I want, just wait until my father hears about this.” [laughs]
Laura: But Harry’s father won’t hear about this. Oops.
Eric: Aww, because he dead. He Dumbledead. John Curl says, I have two tickets to the Cursed Child on Broadway.”
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: Clever.
Micah: And Justin says,
“I need to figure out what this bellend Draco is doing. I am up every night trying to find him on the Marauder’s Map and he doesn’t show up. He has to be in here. And no, I am not obsessed with him; I just know he is up to something and none of my friends believe me even though it’s so obvious. I think my best friends are into each other anyway, and this thing with Ginny is super cute in the books, but they really screwed it up in the movies, and so I’m not really into it anymore and so I’m kind of lonely. Me being lonely has nothing to do with this situation. I just really need to see him. I mean, I just really need to figure out what he is up to so I can stop him.”
Andrew: Justin, love you, my guy, but the Room of Requirement is going to block you if it’s a request this long.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: Ooh, stage five clinger alert. Oh, God. The thing about this is people need to remember that the Room of Requirement, to open it, you have to think the thing that you need, and you have to think the thing you need at least three times while pacing back and forth. So Justin, man, if you can remember that, commit that monologue to memory, then I really hope it works for you.
Andrew: Listeners, if you have feedback about today’s discussion, you can email or send a voice memo to MuggleCast@gmail.com. You can also reach out via the Spotify comments, the YouTube comments, or DM us on social media, and next week, we’ll discuss Half-Blood Prince Chapter 22, “After the Burial.” Visit MuggleCast.com for links to our social media, our Patreon, our transcripts, our favorite episodes… everything MuggleCast is available on our website.
Quizzitch
Andrew: And now it’s time for Quizzitch.
[Quizzitch music plays]
Eric: This week’s question: In Chapter 20, we learn why Hogwarts cannot have a Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher for more than a year. In United States history, which two American presidents served less than a year in office? Anyone on this panel? Anybody? No? Me neither.
Andrew: Like I said, I don’t remember anything in school. [laughs]
Micah: Less than… what is it? One year? McKinley?
Eric: Actually, no. So the two presidents – the only two to serve less than a year in office – were William Henry Harrison; in 1841, he served 32 days in office, and James A. Garfield, 1881, who served 199 days in office. So believe it or not, 35% of people with the correct answer said they didn’t look it up. And this is fun; you guys know Eden the Muggle, established 2012? She wrote, “I literally just learned about this, lol.”
Laura: Oh, that’s funny.
Eric: So they’re still teaching them in school, you guys. Very exciting.
Andrew: Good.
Eric: Other people with this week’s correct answer include Armando Dippet, snoring quietly while, one assumes, Phineas Nigellus Black’s eyes are rolling; Hagrid’s Hairy Legs; Justice for Book Ginny; Slytherin Squib; Snape Ate Lily; The Teacher Who Got a Bet that He Can Last Over One Year as Defense Against the Dark Arts Professor; Tiny Belly; Tofu Tom Wants to Cohost – get in line, buddy – Tonks’s Rhinoplasty; and Vincent Lee. Fun usernames. And here is next week’s Quizzitch question: In Chapter 21, Harry is searching for a phrase that’ll get him into the Room of Requirement, kind of like a password. Who was the host of the United States television game show called Password from 1961 to 1975? It’s a great show; y’all should look up clips on YouTube. Here’s a hint: He was married to Betty White.
Micah: Ooh. Steve Harvey.
[Eric and Micah laugh]
Micah: No.
Eric: Steve Harvey!
Andrew: “I’m your man, Steve Harvey!”
Eric: Submit your answer to us on the MuggleCast website Quizzitch form, which there are about to be two of, by the way; two questions going at one time to accommodate some of our double recordings. It’s going to be very exciting over there. More on that later. And you can find the Quizzitch form by clicking “Quizzitch” on the top nav.
Andrew: Thanks, everybody, for listening. I’m Andrew.
Eric: I’m Eric.
Micah: I’m Micah.
Laura: And I’m Laura.
Andrew: We’ll see you next week. Bye.
Laura and Micah: Bye.