Transcript for MuggleCast Episode #765, Albus the Book Banner? (DH Chapter 6, The Ghoul in Pajamas)
Cold Open
Micah: Eric, is this what you’re going to be doing to Andrew, Laura, and myself in just under two weeks, right?
Eric: Um, showing you the ghoul in my attic?
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: No, we’re going to be trying to save the podcast world, and you’re going to be interfering, being like, “Get ready for my wedding.” [laughs]
Eric: Ohh, giving you tasks. “Yes, but these table decorations need laid out, and can you…?”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: “No, I said follow the seating chart, Laura.”
Show Intro
[Show music plays]
Andrew Sims: Welcome to MuggleCast, your weekly ride into the world of Harry Potter. I’m Andrew.
Eric Scull: I’m Eric.
Micah Tannenbaum: I’m Micah.
Laura Tee: And I’m Laura.
Andrew: And the four of us are your Harry Potter friends, gathering to talk about the books and the movies and the upcoming TV show, so follow us in your favorite podcast app if you don’t already for new episodes every Wednesday. And this week, make sure you know the differences between Spattergroit and spaghetti, because we’re discussing Chapter 6 of Deathly Hallows, “The Ghoul in Pajamas.” But first, this week’s Quizzitch question.
[Quizzitch music plays]
Eric: This week’s Quizzitch question: How does Hermione escape from Mrs. Weasley’s overtasking? And the answer to that question will be revealed at the end of the episode.
Andrew: Also, looking ahead, next week is Back to Hogwarts week, and we anticipate a new…
Micah: Choo-choo.
Andrew: [laughs] That was live, not a sound effect. And we anticipate a new look at the Harry Potter TV show, and we intend to cover whatever is unveiled next week, so stay tuned. And if you have any Muggles in your life who are excited about the show, tell them that MuggleCast is the podcast to follow for TV coverage. Tell them right now! Text them right now!
Micah: And speaking of the TV show, our 2026 physical gift is in the works. We’ll keep it cryptic for now. More to come.
Andrew: For now, yeah. But patrons, look forward to another great gift. So that’s the plan for next week’s episode, and then the following week will be Chapter 7 of Deathly Hallows, “The Will of Albus Dumbledore.” So as you can see, there’s lots going on right now, and listeners make this show possible, so if you enjoy MuggleCast as much as Mrs. Weasley loves assigning chores, we’d love your support in a bunch of different ways. First and best, head over to Patreon.com/MuggleCast and become a member of our community, and to thank you, you’ll receive lots of benefits like bonus episodes of the show, ad-free episodes, access to our recording studio, an on-air shout-out, and lots more. We can’t do this without you, so thank you in advance. And you know what? Our Patreon has existed for a decade now.
Laura: What?
Andrew: Ten years.
Eric: Oh my gosh.
Laura: Wow.
Andrew: It’s been over a decade, actually, and it’s the reason we’re a weekly podcast. And I just want to shout out some who I will call MuggleCast legends. These are people who pledged ten years ago, and are still with us today!
Micah: Are you going to do this like the Animaniacs?
Andrew: No, I…
Eric: Ohhh, [singing] Kelsey, Lucas, Nicole, PJ…
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: … Laura, Jerry, Katie, Justin, Nathan, Sonja, Brandi, Sara, Martha, Mev, Stephanie, Michele, Krystal, Matt, Meaghan, Brihannah, Selina, Jaspreet, Amy, Iris, Hannah, Chelsea, Morgan, MN, Chloe, Angel, Scott, Jeff, Kim.
Laura: Bravo.
Andrew: That’s great, thank you.
Laura: That was great. Thanks for all the support.
Andrew: Thanks, y’all. We’ll read more of the names. Yeah, seriously. If you don’t want to be a monthly subscriber, that’s okay. We’d also appreciate if you left us a review in your favorite podcast app or told a fellow Muggle about our show. And you can also visit MuggleCastMerch.com to buy official show gear. Also, we do have a bit of MuggleMail this week; somebody’s backing you up, Eric. Ali said, “Eric, you’re not alone! I always look at the chapter lists too before I start reading the book. And I often regret it, but I can’t stop myself.”
Eric: Oh my goodness. Oh, no regrets on my end because I like spoilers, actually. But I’m glad to know somebody else did this. Because the chapter list is right at the front of the book! You have to literally scroll past it to get to the chapters.
Andrew: I was listening back to that, and I was like, “Wow, that’s messed up. Couldn’t be me.”
Micah: The one thing you could say, though, for the author is that she was pretty good at concealing things, so that it’s not like it said straight out, “Dumbledore’s Funeral.”
Laura: Yeah, “The White Tomb” is pretty on the nose, though. [laughs]
Andrew: Who else is being buried in a white tomb?
Laura: Right.
Micah: Well, now that you…
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Laura: Sorry.
[Micah laughs]
Andrew: Spoilers!
Micah: Well, maybe when you’re… what, 14?
Andrew: True.
Micah: Although, I’ve got to give 14-year-olds credit. They know.
Andrew: Yeah, it’s an interesting debate.
Chapter by Chapter: Seven-Word Summary
Andrew: All right, well, let’s get to Chapter by Chapter, and this week we’re discussing Chapter 6 of Deathly Hallows, “The Ghoul in Pajamas,” and we’ll start with our Seven-Word Summary mini-game. Eric is up first.
[Seven-Word Summary music plays]
Eric: Upstairs…
Laura: … resides…
Micah: … a…
Andrew: … creepy…
Eric: … groaning…
Laura: … nasty…
Micah: … Weasley.
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: I mean, yeah.
Laura: Technically.
Andrew: Technically. I bet that ghoul wants to be a Weasley.
Micah: And her name is Molly.
Andrew: Oh, come on.
Laura: Oh, no!
Andrew: Well, yeah. I mean, in some ways she’s groaning. I wouldn’t call her nasty, but we’ll get to that in a moment.
Chapter by Chapter: Main Discussion
Andrew: First of all, I’m calling the first part of our discussion “Sad About Mad… Eye.” So the Order is reeling from the death of Mad-Eye, and how Harry is coping with it is reflective of reality. I think you see this, especially as you get older; you live more of your life. You keep expecting that the loved one who recently passed will appear in their familiar places, and they don’t. And Harry also thinks that the only way to move past this guilt and grief is to head off to hunt for Horcruxes, which isn’t a bad thought, especially for a kid. And I like that he wants to get out, try to move past this, but the reality is, you can’t outrun your problems; you can’t outrun the grief. But still, it’s going to be good to be in new places, I think. It does make me wonder: Would he have delayed it any longer had Moody or someone else didn’t die, or was he going to head out regardless on the same timeline?
Micah: I don’t think he would have delayed too much longer. Maybe he would have consulted Moody a bit…
Eric: Oooh.
Micah: … especially knowing how accomplished of an individual Moody was. But I agree with you; his reaction to Moody’s death, it feels very real. He has these little moments where his brain hasn’t caught up with the reality of the fact that Moody isn’t coming through that door anytime soon, and yeah, it is a very recognizable part of grief.
Eric: If Harry couldn’t previously see Thestrals, he now would be able to see Thestrals for how much he’s feeling this death of Mad-Eye. But I find it interesting speculating whether he would have let Moody in or consulted Moody on strategy, because the thing that I think is causing a big part of this delay is, apart from general grieving, the fact that Moody was their best soldier. This retired Auror who had a lifelong of fighting and hunting Dark wizards is gone, and there’s nobody who really compares, nobody who’s not a family man or is on his way to becoming a family man, like Lupin. There’s not any of those warriors that are now part of the cause, and so I think part of the delay, too, is Harry just not even knowing how to continue from a fighting standpoint. What hope do they have? Our best soldier is gone.
Micah: Right. And Andrew, to your question of whether or not he would have moved sooner, depending on what happened to Moody, I just think that Moody’s death is further evidence that staying on the defensive only works for so long, and Harry needs to start taking meaningful action here. Can’t just keep sitting back and waiting to see what happens.
Andrew: Right.
Laura: Yeah. I think it makes sense, too, in the realm of grief that sometimes when we’re having really strong feelings about anything, I think it’s really natural as people to want to claim some kind of control over something to be able to say, “I can’t do anything about the fact that Mad-Eye is dead, but I can get started on this Horcrux hunt.” But I think what’s complicated about this for Harry also is that he doesn’t exactly know where to start. He’s like, “I’m going to go, but I don’t know where.” [laughs]
Andrew: Yeah, yeah. I mean, it’s a huge question; these Horcruxes really could be hidden anywhere. And the adults want to know what the trio are heading off to do if they’re going to be dropping out of Hogwarts. That’s huge, to dump Hogwarts for your final year! I mean, yeah, these are special circumstances, but… I’m a college dropout. My parents were not thrilled about that. I didn’t have the excuse of saving the wizarding world when I was dropping out; it was just like, “I’m going to do this Internet thing and see if it works out.”
Laura: You were saving the podcasting world.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: Yeah, sure.
Eric: I like to think we all were.
Andrew: Yeah, yeah. So Arthur and Lupin stop prying about their plan once the kids tell them that Dumbledore said not to tell anyone, but Molly still wants to know. She is not giving up. And a big focus of this chapter is Molly trying to thwart their plans. This isn’t the first time Molly has been very concerned, right, Micah?
Micah: Right, we see her behave this way in Order of the Phoenix when it’s called into question how much Harry and Ron and Hermione should know about the prophecy and Voldemort’s plan to retrieve it. I think the difference this time, though, is that the trio are of age – Harry comes of age in these next couple of chapters – and they don’t need permission from Molly now like they would have done back in Order of the Phoenix.
Laura: Right.
Micah: So she is trying to be a bit of a control freak. I think the interesting thing with characters like Arthur and Lupin is that they really put a lot of stock in what Dumbledore says, and once he says something, they seem to just go with it. Which I don’t know how smart that is at the end of the day; I think they should still put in their two cents. But we’re talking about Molly here. So yeah, she consistently behaves in this way, but she’s the mother hen.
Andrew and Eric: Yeah.
Eric: I think, too, she’s feeling a little idle. It’s unclear to me what the adult members of the Order of the Phoenix are supposed to be doing this year.
Andrew: That’s a good point.
Eric: Harry got an assignment from Dumbledore, but did Dumbledore, before he died, think to…? Knowing that if he left, the Order of the Phoenix would be without its main leader, did he set out contingencies, or did he…? Obviously not revealing about the Horcruxes to the other Order members. Did he have some kind of a game plan for where they’re supposed to station themselves for what they’re supposed to do? When I’m thinking about it and going into rereading this book for the first time in a long time, I’m just like, are the adults just on standby until May 2, Battle of Hogwarts, when they show up and have to be good at defending themselves from dying and protecting the kids? What’s the plan for the adults?
Laura: I also found myself wondering the same thing, Eric, and I feel like the only thing we have in the text that could imply that Dumbledore did something to make sure the Order would be prepared was by telling Kingsley and Lupin… last thing he said to both of them was, “Harry is our best hope. Trust him.”
Eric: Ohh. Yeah. [laughs] “Harry will have a plan!”
Laura: Right, yeah, “This 17-year-old is going to have a plan. Don’t sweat it. Peace, I’m out.” It’s really not clear that there was much more than that. It’s not a great plan.
Eric: It’s just a “Watch this space” thing, because it’s bad enough the trio doesn’t know what they’re doing, but all the people that could be assisting them… or even without telling them everything, the people that could be poised to, or collecting data or whatever it is they do, could be a lot better used. The adults could be a lot better used.
Andrew: Yeah. I mean, I think this situation would stress me out if I were one of the adults. I’m just in waiting; what am I supposed to be doing? I would probably feel a little helpless.
Micah: Yeah, I agree. It also just speaks to – and we’ve seen this come up a couple times in these first few chapters – that the Order isn’t in the best circumstances right now. The Burrow is being used as the headquarters for the Order, essentially, which probably is not the best option, but it’s really the only option for them. They’ve just lost their leader in Moody, and we did see a decent amount of organization in that first chapter from Voldemort and his followers…
Eric: Oh, yeah.
Micah: … and their plan didn’t go the way that they would have liked it to go, but they dealt the Order a serious blow, and I just think this speaks to the fact that they just don’t have everything as organized, maybe, as we would expect them to. And it is kind of confusing that we don’t see any types of plans that have been left by Dumbledore for members of the Order. As you were saying before, just saying to trust Harry; that’s not tactical.
Eric: That’s not… yeah, right.
Laura: Yeah. Well, and the other piece is that he has left Snape with a plan. Snape has the most detailed plan of anyone.
Eric: But would they even believe, given what Snape did, if Snape comes up and is like, “Hey, Molly, come this way,” or “Hey, Filius, remember when I bonked you on the head? Yeah, sorry about that, but I have a plan here.”
Laura: Right, exactly.
Andrew: It would be hard to believe.
Laura: No, and it’s by design that they wouldn’t believe him, because Snape has to keep his cover until the very last minute.
Andrew: Yeah. I like the point that Gaby brought up in the Discord a few minutes ago. She said, “I mean, given the state of things, why would the adults want the trio to go back to Hogwarts at all?” That’s a good point too. It’s not a safe space right now.
Eric: Yeah, well, given what we know is happening with Snape… there’s no way they concurrently know that Snape is going to be the headmaster with actual Death Eaters as teachers, but they’ll soon find out. Surely September 2, when word gets out, Molly is not going to be questioning anymore why Ron, Harry, and Hermione didn’t go to Hogwarts. She’s probably going to feel bad for Ginny, who’s still there.
Micah: Would these parents have a choice?
Andrew: To send them back.
Micah: Meaning they may not want their kids to go back to Hogwarts, but if Voldemort is in control, who’s to say that they have any say in the matter?
Laura: Don’t we hear that there are a number of students who don’t go back? And granted, they come up with excuses to justify it, like what we’re going to hear about Ron doing in this chapter. So yeah, I mean, I presume they would show up and come looking for you if you didn’t come to school.
Andrew: Well, frustrated with the lack of answers, Mrs. Weasley tries a different tactic. She’s keeping the trio so busy with wedding preparations that they don’t have time, the trio, to talk and plot with one another. And Mrs. Weasley running interference around the trio to prevent them from talking with one another runs throughout this chapter. Wedding prep is a convenient excuse, but I’m wondering… seriously, isn’t it irresponsible for Mrs. Weasley to be acting this way? She’s thwarting them planning, which negatively impacts their future plans. I mean…
Eric: The cause.
Andrew: Yeah, yeah.
Micah: Eric, is this what you’re going to be doing to Andrew, Laura, and myself in just under two weeks, right?
Eric: Um, showing you the ghoul in my attic?
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: No, we’re going to be trying to save the podcast world, and you’re going to be interfering, being like, “Get ready for my wedding.” [laughs]
Eric: Ohh, giving you tasks. “Yes, but these table decorations need laid out, and can you…?”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: “No, I said follow the seating chart, Laura.” Yeah. No, guys, we have plenty of friends coming early to help out, so thank you, but no worries.
Andrew: Okay, sweet. [laughs]
Micah: We want to be helpful, though.
Eric: Well, you are. You are.
Andrew: But really, it just seems really irresponsible to be actively getting in their way when Dumbledore gave them plans and Molly is like, “No, you can’t prepare to save the wizarding world. Sorry.”
Micah: Yeah, part of me thinks that she’s using this as much as a distraction for herself as she is for the trio. And if you look back at all the things that have happened to her family over the course of these last few months, you have Bill who has been bitten by Fenrir Greyback, George had his ear blown off by Snape, and roughly half her family were just put in danger, in Voldemort’s direct path, during Harry’s escape. So I think she’s scared for Harry, Ron, and Hermione; that’s part of the reason why she’s doing this. And she honestly has every right to be. And add on the fact, I mentioned earlier, that her home is… yeah, she’s planning for a wedding, but it’s also now headquarters for the Order. She has people popping in and out all the time, and that can’t feel too safe for her. It makes the Burrow a target, which we’ll see in just a couple chapters.
Laura: Right.
Andrew: Yeah. No, that’s understandable. I mean, I don’t love when people are coming into my house to do work or whatever. Even though they’re invited over and supposed to be there, it still feels like almost… not an invasion of privacy, but it makes it feel less like your own home.
[Ad break]
Andrew: Next part of this discussion I’m calling “I’ll Stand by You Always.” Do any of you three understand this reference before we continue?
Eric: It sounds familiar.
Andrew: Okay.
Eric: Is this the Bruce Springsteen song that he wrote?
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: Of course it is.
Andrew: Ding-ding-ding-ding! You won this week’s Quizzitch question.
Eric: Heyyy!
Andrew: Yeah, the Harry Potter song written by Bruce Springsteen that was rejected for the first movie. But really, this ties in together nicely. Harry does not want Ron and Hermione coming with him on this journey, but Ron and Hermione are saying in this chapter – and proving in this chapter – “I will stand by you always.” They are making big sacrifices as they plan to hit the road with Harry, which just tells you how committed they are to going with him. First and foremost, Hermione making a huge change in her life. She has already placed charms on her parents that convinced her parents that, A, they don’t have a daughter, and B, to move to Australia. And should Hermione not survive the battle, they will never remember that they had a daughter, because she won’t be there to undo the charm. And Hermione says having them move to Australia is a good plan because if the Death Eaters hear she went into hiding with her family, it would be believable, because a lot of Muggle-borns are going into hiding right now.
Micah: It’s the ultimate sacrifice, and if nothing else, this action should put things into perspective for Harry, the lengths to which Hermione is willing to go to join Harry in the quest for destroying Voldemort. She’s modified her parents’ memory so that she no longer exists to them. I mean, that’s heartbreaking. And we see it… I can’t remember if we’ll see it in a couple of chapters when they escape the wedding, but the way that it was done in the movie was very moving in particular, and especially when they’re in the cafe and Ron has Hermione do the Memory Charm on the Death Eaters because she had done it previously on her parents. You see the emotion in her face and her eyes as a result of that. So yeah, to me, this is… you can’t ask for a bigger sacrifice than this.
Eric: I completely agree. It should show anyone that asks that clearly they understand the situation. And I really do appreciate that it was adapted to the film. What you’re saying, it’s… I don’t even know where Hermione learned to do a Memory Charm like that, but it’s pretty impressive.
Andrew: Yeah, yeah. Can’t imagine doing that on your parents. That just seems impossibly hard.
Laura: Well, and sending them so far away, Hermione is not going to be able to check up on them over the next year. She just has to assume that they made it to Australia and that they’re doing well.
Eric: And the way that she says it, too, isn’t it like, “This way, if I don’t come back, they won’t miss me”? Can you imagine the level of self… the thought that had to go into making that kind of a choice or sacrifice, to not be missed if you die?
Andrew: By your parents, yeah.
Micah: And I mean, this is a continuation of what we’ve seen already in Deathly Hallows, where Harry and company are protecting those that cannot protect themselves. We see the Dursleys being taken away to safety. We now see the Grangers presumably being taken away to safety, and their memories modified. The Weasleys are a little bit different because they can actually fight against the Death Eaters and Voldemort.
Eric: Oh, yeah, yeah. They’re not non-combatants.
Micah: But they’re all targets. As we’ve been talking about, these are easy, soft targets for Voldemort and company.
Eric: So real quick, the topic of Hermione’s parents reminded me – actually, Meg reminded me – but the topic of Hermione’s parents sometimes comes up, and I’m reminded that there was a panel back at LeakyCon Dallas in 2018 that became… we released it as a bonus MuggleCast on our Patreon. We’re going to link to it in the show notes, and it’s a 55-minute conversation on Doctors Granger and Granger DDS. Who are they? What are their names? We know their aliases. What do they like? What are their hobbies even when they know they have a daughter? What do we know?
Andrew: [laughs] I love it. I want to know: Do they prefer water flossers or string flossers? I’m hoping the former.
Eric: Oh, right, actual professional dental preferences.
Andrew: Yeah. What’s their flossing preference? Which is better?
Eric: We cover that in the panel.
Andrew: You’re joking.
Eric: No, we don’t. I don’t remember what we covered.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: But anyway, that is a… like I said, it’s almost an hour-long conversation, if anybody’s looking to supplement this MuggleCast.
Andrew: Awesome. Yeah, sounds good. So as for Ron, with the help of Arthur, Fred, and George, they have transformed the ghoul that lives in Ron’s attic to sort of kind of look like him but with Spattergroit. And the plan here is that if anyone comes knocking at the Burrow looking for Ron, Molly and Arthur can say, “Oh, he’s down with a terrible case of Spattergroit. You can come look at him if you want, but don’t get too close to him because it’s highly contagious,” so nobody will want to get close and investigate properly. This ghoul does sort of kind of look like Ron, so it’s a convincing story. Now, here’s something that I love; this is a bit of connecting the threads. In Order of the Phoenix, while visiting Arthur in the hospital, a Healer diagnoses Ron with Spattergroit because of the “unsightly blemishes” on his face, which were only freckles. Yikes! And this was the first time Harry had heard about the disease. And it’s not noted in this chapter whether or not this is how Ron got the idea for Spattergroit, but this is a very cool throwback.
Eric: I think it’s actually a… isn’t it a portrait? A portrait, not a Healer? They’re standing in the hallway, and it’s like, “You have Spattergroit!” and Ron gets all upset.
Andrew: Oh, okay.
Laura: Yeah, and it’s following him through the portraits and harassing him down the hallway. Yeah, I remember.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: Oh, okay. Yeah, just a very cool throwback.
Eric: If anybody has ever been self-conscious about having a blemish, yeah, it’s kind of annoying and disastrous. But I love this. For a slapdash together alibi, this kind of works. The fact that Spattergroit is so contagious, too, so this is sure to buy them some time.
Micah: You don’t think, though, at some point Voldemort would just be like… pick a Death Eater. Yaxley.
Andrew: Put him in a hazmat suit?
Micah: Not even.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: “I don’t care if you get Spattergroit. Go investigate.”
Andrew: No, you’re right. You’re right. He doesn’t care if Ron is down with Spattergroit or not.
Micah: What are we doing here, people?
Andrew: [laughs] Well, do you have another plan for Ron? What else?
Micah: Well, no, no, I’m not… I think for them, it works out really well. But for Voldemort and company, I feel like… be a little more aggressive. Don’t be scared by some chicken pox.
Andrew: Really, the whole family needs to move out of the Burrow. It’s just…
Micah: Yeah. Go to Australia.
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: Yeah, go join the Grangers.
Andrew: Yeah, keep an eye on them. You’ll get some free dental work done too, maybe. So the cool… okay, Micah doesn’t love the plan. I think it’s a decent plan, but what’s up with this…?
Micah: Well…
Andrew: What?
Micah: I don’t dislike the plan; I’m just saying, shame on the Death Eaters for not being a little bit more assertive.
Andrew: [laughs] Okay, yeah. But what is up with this ghoul in the attic? We were just talking about strangers coming over to your house, and it kind of makes you feel uncomfortable. Why does it get to just hang out in the Weasleys’ attic? Why not get rid of it? We also see in this chapter it causes occasional disruptions overnight, and it’s affecting people’s sleep.
Eric: Oh my God. I can’t… I don’t understand it either. And they never invite it to dinner or any of their meals, any of their family meals. Is it a family member? Is it not?
Andrew: Right.
Laura: Well, now it is.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: Yeah, now they have to invite it.
Andrew: Ron adjacent.
Eric: Was it ever human? Would be my number one question, because it’s humanoid. It’s human-like. But it smells, it has a large mouth that Harry… we’ve been hearing about the ghoul in the attic since Book 2, since our first visit to the Burrow, and so that’s a delight. But now that we’re getting up close with it, that Ron just sort of casually is like, “Come and have a look at him.” What is this? It can only moan and drool, is what I think Ron says. So is it in pain?
Andrew: The only thing I like about it is it adds character to the house. Other than that, I don’t know what it contributes. The wizarding world is weird. It’s quirky. It’s unexplainable at times. This is that. That’s the ghoul.
Eric: Oh, he can moan and drool, but he can also nod, according to Ron. So here’s something that understands… that has a degree of intelligence. Only moans and drools. I mean, mood. But it just really gets to me. What is this thing that we’re just being haphazardly shown up close with, and then taken back downstairs?
Laura: So I’m looking this up. This is kind of unappetizing. In folklore, a ghoul is a demon-like being or monstrous humanoid, often associated with graveyards and the consumption of human flesh.
Eric: Huh.
Andrew: See? No.
Laura: So yeah, I’m a little confused as to how ghouls are supposed to function in the wizarding world, because…
Eric: Maybe the Burrow is the perfect plot of land, except it was once a burial ground.
Andrew: Oh. If I knew a ghoul was in my attic right now, and it’s been there for the six years I’ve been here, I feel like I would still be uncomfortable with some sort of being being up there.
Eric: Yeah, it could at least help out and sort through all the Barney paraphernalia that you’ve got up there.
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: We were talking about Barney the Dinosaur before we started recording.
Eric: Organize the books and things for you.
Micah: It just adds to the character of the Burrow. I don’t know with this particular entity that we’re supposed to really read anything more into it than…
Laura: Probably not.
Micah: It’s been there for six plus books so that it could be a plot device in Deathly Hallows. That’s really it.
[Andrew and Micah laugh]
Eric: Well, and think about how crowded the Burrow is, right? With all the Weasley family members home, and there’s a ghoul, and there’s gnomes in the garden.
Andrew: Right, right.
Micah: Maybe it eats the gnomes in the garden.
Andrew and Laura: Ohhh.
Laura: See, I was wondering if a ghoul in the wizarding world could serve some kind of home pest control purpose, kind of the way that spiders do in the real world. Spiders take care of other insect populations.
Eric: Mosquitoes.
Laura: But then, why is it in the attic?
Micah: It’s comfortable.
Andrew: Yeah. Look, last thing I’ll say is my dad had this foot and a half statue of Groucho Marx in his man cave in the basement of the childhood home, and I was convinced that thing was coming to life at night. I was so… I could not sleep at night because I was terrified of the stupid statue, and that’s what I think of when I think of this being just hiding in the attic. It is causing trouble at night and going to kill me or something.
Laura: You just imagine Groucho Marx in the Weasleys’ attic?
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: Ah, nightmare fuel. All right, so let’s move on to the Horcrux hunt planning. Despite Molly’s best efforts, the planning will continue, and it turns out that Hermione – we’ve talked about this over the years – she’s got a bit of a bad side, and in this chapter, we see she’s a bit of a klepto. She tells Harry and Ron that Dumbledore had removed any and all books about Horcruxes from the library after Riddle got the idea to create Horcruxes, and then moved these books to his own office. So she did a good old Accio to retrieve the books from his office after his funeral. [laughs] And so she’s been researching Horcruxes.
Micah: This is just…
Eric: [coughs] Too easy. [coughs]
Andrew: Too easy?
Eric: Contrivances of the plot occur and are necessary in some cases. This is the worst one. This is not anything that I think feels fair or safe or like it could be guessed what happened. And as for Dumbledore removing the books after Voldemort already figured out exactly how to make a Horcrux, a little too late. Too little too late there, buddy.
Micah: It shocks me that Hermione just thinks that it’s a five finger discount shopping spree in Dumbledore’s office.
Andrew: [laughs] Yeah, really. That’s messed up.
Eric: Listen, man, he’s gone. He’s not going to miss any of this stuff.
Micah: What else, Eric, would you pilfer from Dumbledore’s office?
Eric: I mean, there’s so much, Micah. There’s so much. Anything with gold on it. Anything that looks like it would sell for a pretty penny, absolutely, 100%. The unique kinds of trinkets that we’re about to find out that Dumbledore may have invented, even. Unbelievable. I would pilfer all of that stuff.
Andrew: Is this at all unlike Voldemort taking the Elder Wand out of Dumbledore’s tomb? I mean… [laughs]
Eric: It’s a find! It’s a heck of a find. He’s not going to recreate that. It’s a one-of-a-kind item. Also, books on knitting patterns, the predictions of Tycho Dodonus… we know Dumbledore has a copy of that book.
Andrew: Now, that I would like too. No, I mean, it does feel a little disrespectful, doesn’t it?
Eric: It’s the only thing they could do to possibly survive! [laughs]
Andrew: I guess so.
Laura: So Gaby in our Discord is calling this out: “Maybe Dumbledore wanted someone to find them.” And I actually have a point about this that I’m going to bring up in our next episode, or rather our next chapter, with what Hermione is given in Dumbledore’s will, so I’ll circle back to that then. But yeah, Gaby, I tend to agree with you. I think two things can be true, though; I think it’s possible that this was by design on Dumbledore’s part, but that it’s also kind of lazy writing.
Andrew: Yeah, it does feel wedged in.
Eric: If Dumbledore wanted them to have it, he should find another way of giving it to them. The one thing I’ll say that’s interesting, though, is that Hermione describes having the thought, “Hey, what if I…?” So maybe Dumbledore implanted that thought or had a stray thought that’s able to… because apparently she has direct line of sight to his office. First time we’re hearing anything about that.
Laura: Right.
Micah: Well, that’s what I’m also curious about here, and it may have been in the chapter and I just overlooked it, but how does she know this? How does she know that Dumbledore took those books out of the library and put them in his office?
Eric: Well, because he must have done, right? Because that’s the only thing that makes sense, right? Because he must have done.
Andrew: He must have removed the books. As for them going into his office, that part’s a little…
Micah: And they just flew out the window.
[Andrew and Micah laugh]
Andrew: Well, that’s Accio for you.
Eric: Well, she says a brain wave… like Harry’s broom a couple of times in the series. But yeah, she describes the brain wave as hitting her, and that, I feel, might have been magical.
Andrew: Rachelpuff has a hot take: “I’m just surprised Dumbledore is a book banner.” Oop!
Micah: Uh-oh.
Eric: Yeah, Dumbledore, doesn’t that interfere with people’s right to have knowledge?
Andrew: Yikes, yikes. So what Hermione has learned from these books is that to put yourself back together after ripping your soul up, you must have remorse. She says, “You’ve got to really feel what you’ve done. Apparently the pain of it can destroy you.” And she can’t see Voldemort doing this, which makes her believe his soul is still ripped into several pieces. And this word “remorse” will put a bow on this chapter, so stay tuned for that. Hermione has also learned how to destroy Horcruxes: If the container is destroyed, the Horcrux is destroyed. This is the opposite of a soul living in a human. The soul still lives if the human dies. Now, personally, I don’t totally follow this, but okay.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: Also, there is a two-part foreshadow alert here.
[Foreshadowing sound effect plays]
Andrew: So Hermione uses killing Ron with a sword as an example of how a soul works. She says, “Look, if I picked up a sword right now, Ron, and ran you through with it, I wouldn’t damage your soul at all.” On a first read, you probably wouldn’t think anything of it, especially because Ron cracks a joke after Hermione says this line: “Which would be a real comfort to me, I’m sure.” But later on, Ron uses the sword to destroy Slytherin’s rocket. [laughs] Ron uses the sword…
[Laura and Micah laugh]
Micah: His rocket?
Eric: His red rocket.
Andrew: Ron uses the sword to destroy Slytherin’s locket, excuse me. And then Neville uses the sword of Gryffindor to destroy Nagini. So I’m sure some eagle-eyed readers may have considered the sword of Gryffindor as an option when reading this line for the first time. I don’t know.
Micah: No.
Andrew: No? Yeah, I don’t think I did either.
Micah: Well, no, I didn’t pick up on it the first time, but it is interesting that it’s written this way.
Eric: I think there might have been… I mean, it’s the flimsiest possible reason to give Hermione now the knowledge that she never would otherwise have, or to have them come across the knowledge organically, like maybe Dumbledore’s secret study or something that pops up somehow somewhere. Maybe in the will they get a hotel room key to an ancient hotel; they turn the key and they get in there and there’s all the Horcrux books. There might have been another way to deliver this information, but now it’s just something Hermione knows, and now she’s going to be able to say, “Because of course, a Horcrux is the complete opposite of a human being!”
Andrew: Yeah, yeah!
Eric: And Harry and Ron are like, “Okay, all right, sure.”
Andrew: Do you three understand this whole “If the container is destroyed, the Horcrux is destroyed”? That is the opposite of a soul living in a human. The soul lives if the human dies?
Laura: Yeah, I mean, I think especially if you’re reading this with the understanding that the author is Christian, and there is, I mean, a lot of Judeo-Christian foundational belief systems woven into these stories, so the idea of your eternal soul, essentially…
Andrew: I see.
Laura: … like the piece of you that goes on after you die, if you are religious and you believe in that, I think that’s what’s being referred to here.
Andrew: Okay.
Eric: I like that a lot.
Andrew: Yeah, makes sense.
Micah: But because Voldemort has done such a violation against his soul by ripping it up into so many pieces, and he’s put them into all these different objects, once that object is destroyed, the soul can no longer live. That part of it can no longer live.
Eric: Yeah, but the one exception of this is the part of Voldemort’s soul that was in his body the first time, which…
Micah: Because I guess that’s his original essence?
Eric: Yeah, it must have been. It was ejected out of his body on Halloween night in Godric’s Hollow, and then it roamed, being next to nothing. But he couldn’t die because there were other parts of his soul there. So in that one instance, destroying the container, the part of Voldemort that was in his body the first time, didn’t in fact destroy him. So I’m a little confused as to why the other bits of soul wouldn’t just be floating around out there going to Albania.
Laura: It’s a good question. I don’t know if that’s a plot hole.
Eric: Because what should have happened, right, was that that part of when Voldemort was killed – or the Killing Curse rebounded and killed him – he should have actually died. That part of that soul that was in his body should have died. He still would have lived, but only in the form of Horcruxes, existing encased Horcruxes. And so if anybody comes across the diary in a hundred years and begins writing in it, there’s a way for Voldemort to live. But the actual part that was in his body should probably be destroyed.
Andrew: My brain starts turning to mush when I think about this too hard, if I’m being honest.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: No, no, it’s interesting. It’s interesting.
Andrew: It is, yeah. No, I like the points you’re bringing up, though.
[Ad break]
Andrew: So the chapter ends with Harry feeling – here’s that word again – remorse for the pain and inconvenience he’s giving Mrs. Weasley. And again, remorse, this is the thing you would need to put your soul back together, and I just love that this is punctuating the point of this story. In Harry versus Voldemort, Harry has the love, affection, care, ability to feel remorse for fellow humans that will ultimately win the day, and Voldemort, meanwhile, couldn’t scrape up the remorse or love to save himself. Right? I just thought that was a beautiful way to end this chapter.
Eric: I like that Hermione puts that in there, that there is actually a way to resolve it, and I think… doesn’t…? Aren’t we told that by Slughorn earlier, too, in the previous book? Remorse is a way to do it? So it’s interesting because if you talk about, again, souls, the act of penitence and confession and reconciliation is a sacrament in the Catholic Church, where I was raised, and it’s the power of having that remorse and literally cleansing sin. So it’s a very Christian thing to say, “Hey, this is fixable. You’ve got to be remorseful.”
Lynx Line
Andrew: All right, let’s move on to the Lynx Line. If you were Mrs. Weasley, what is the most outrageous task you would give Harry to keep him away from Ron and Hermione? I wanted to ask this since this is a big focus of the chapter. My thought, my idea, is train the garden gnomes on how to fight any visiting Death Eaters. I think Harry will be busy with that for a long time.
Eric: Oh my God, yeah. I can’t wait to see the mess that that causes. I’m going to say that Harry… he’s been just getting Weasley sweaters handed to him every year since he was 11; it’s time he learns to knit his own. I think that Molly is going to say, “We don’t know why you’re not going back to school, but you have to have a useful skill such as knitting. So Harry, you’re in charge. Knit your own sweater. Maybe by Christmas you’ll finish. There’s no better time to learn.”
Micah: I like it.
Andrew: Yeah, you do it for once.
Micah: I went with set up a space for Percy just in case he shows up…
Andrew: [laughs] Aww.
Micah: … because you know Ron and Hermione would not want to help Harry out with that.
Laura: I said that she would have him cut up a buttload of turnips by hand for old times’ sake before he turned 17.
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: Do y’all remember last book when she was making Ron and Harry do that by hand? Fred and George were showing off the fact that they could do magic, and I could see her the day before Harry turned 17 being like, “Hey, I’ve got something for you. This will keep you busy.”
Andrew: [laughs] All right, turning to our answers from patrons. Justin said, “Have Ginny do what she did… but more often, and also… well, you know…” And he wanted me to do an impression of Captain Holt from Brooklyn Nine-Nine. [censored] Was that good, Justin? I watched the clip just for you because I didn’t watch that show. I don’t know if we’re going to keep that in. [laughs] We’ll maybe censor it.
Eric: Listen, you know what? You took a chance there. You really went… you put some effort into it. I think it’s a beautiful thing.
Andrew: [censored] I think is how he did it.
Eric: Rachel says, “Tell him Arthur wanted a word in the garage. Arthur would spend the day questioning Harry about Muggle artifacts.” Yes, yes, yes.
Micah: John said, “Have Harry accompany Ginny to a Muggle mall and a trip to Hot Topic. Wink, wink.”
Andrew: [laughs] That’s so ’90s. I love it.
Laura: I would do that. Matthew says, “Easiest thing to do is get the Mirror of Erised and stick it in a corner. Only problem is keeping everyone else away from it.”
Andrew: [laughs] Yeah, I love that. Michael said, “I would tell him I saw one of those pesky garden gnomes hiding a Horcrux in one of their gnomeholes.”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: “Really? Where?”
Micah: ThatBatLady: “Polyjuice into Malfoy and let the taunting commence… sometimes it feels like he has stronger pull than Ginny.”
Andrew: Oop!
Laura: Oooh. Well, that just launched a thousand fanfics. Carlee says, “Well, he does have a ‘saving people thing.’ I say stage a minor situation requiring a rescue. Is Gabrielle in town yet? She’d probably be down! Might have to fight Ginny for the privilege, though.”
Andrew: And finally, Jared said, “Bring Gilderoy Lockhart back from St. Mungo’s and have him ‘teach’ Harry strategies on dealing with forbidden love while becoming a hero Horcrux killer that not only accomplishes his task, but looks gorgeous doing it.” [laughs] Okay. Our listeners are so creative. And listeners, if you have feedback about today’s discussion, you can contact us by emailing or sending a voice memo to MuggleCast@gmail.com, or you can reach out via the Spotify comments or the YouTube comments, or DM us on social media. And reminder: Next week is Back to Hogwarts week…
Micah: Choo-choo.
Andrew: … and we anticipate a new look at the Harry Potter TV show, so we intend to cover whatever is unveiled. So stay tuned.
Micah: There better be something. Look, at this point, how far out are we from this show?
Andrew: Micah is like… [laughs] What’s buggin’ Micah? “There better be something!”
Eric: You got a whole documentary.
Micah: Well, we’re just over three months, right? Ish?
Andrew: They did kind of say there’s going to be a look at the Harry Potter TV show at some Back to Hogwarts event in England, so people are taking that as confirmation that there’s going to be something. You’re right, though. And reminder, if you have any Muggles in your life who are excited about the show too, tell them about MuggleCast. Tell them right now! Send them a text. And then the following week, we will discuss Chapter 7 of Deathly Hallows, “The Will of Albus Dumbledore.”
Quizzitch
Andrew: Before we wrap up, it’s time for the answer to this week’s Quizzitch question.
[Quizzitch music plays]
Eric: And how exactly was it that Hermione and Ginny escaped Molly’s overtasking in this chapter? It’s because Molly messed up and actually already assigned them the task of changing the sheets yesterday, so they found themselves with a free period. And thanks for playing at home, everybody.
Andrew: All right, visit MuggleCast.com for links to our social media, our Patreon, our transcripts, our favorite episodes, and lots more. Thanks, everybody, for listening. I’m Andrew.
Eric: I’m Eric.
Micah: I’m Micah.
Laura: And I’m Laura.
Andrew: Bye, everybody!
Eric, Laura, and Micah: Bye.