MuggleCast EP2 Transcript
Intro
Ben [Show Intro]: This is MuggleCast – Episode 2 for August 14, 2005. If you haven’t finished the 6th Book yet, please do not continue listening, because there are spoilers abound.
Andrew: Hey Guys! I’m Andrew Sims.
Kevin: I’m Kevin Steck.
Aris: And I’m Aris Janetakos.
Andrew: And welcome to this week’s edition of MuggleCast. And we have a special guest this week. Yes, you heard right, it’s Aris Janetakos from Veritaserum. How you doing Aris?
Aris: I’m good. How are you guys?
Andrew and Kevin: We’re pretty good.
Andrew: As you might notice Ben Schoen has had a couple of technical problems, so he’s not here this week unfortunately, but I think we’ve made up with Aris being here.
Aris: He’s with us in spirit.
Andrew: He is…he is…
Andrew: So we’re going to start off with our top story and our main topic of discussion this week. It’s what WB had…in my opinion, had feared the most. Warner Brothers announced to the company this week that Goblet of Fire received a PG-13 rating “for sequences of fantasy violence and frightening images”. Kevin Steck, what is this going to do to the movie? How is this going to effect who sees it?
Kevin: Well, I don’t think it’s going to affect it too much. I think that most of the parents have read the books to their children, so they know what to expect. But I do think that WB’s initial intention was to keep it PG, and the fact that they got PG-13 was probably upsetting to them. I don’t know why they weren’t able to keep it PG, but in the end it’s up to the MPAA and they made their decision…unless they go back and edit it.
Andrew: I like how ComingSoon put it. It was basically a slap in the face. WB had said their goal was to keep all the movies rated PG and this one being PG-13 obviously, I think it is going to help in a way that a lot teens are going to be more appealed to it. Because a PG-13 rating…to a lot of people…that’s like American Pie gets that kind of rating and people are going to say it’s not going to be American Pie, but it’s going to be more intense.
Kevin: Right.
Andrew: Aris do you have anything to say about that?
Aris: Yes, personally I think it’ll actually help bring a new audience possibly to the Harry Potter franchise. Because I think most people will see: “Oh PG-13, well it’s not PG anymore, obviously there must be more to it. A little bit more violent than it was before.”
Because as the books develop they have been getting darker, and I think it is time they get a PG-13 rating. Just because in Book 4 there is a death…we have Cedric Diggory die. There’s blood violence in it. Somebody is being reborn…this graveyard scene. So it is a little bit scarier. So I think it does, in a way, deserve the PG-13 rating.
Just as Order of the Phoenix will.
Kevin: Now do you think that they intended for them to hit that PG-13 mark or was it just the MPAA going against their initial intention?
Andrew: You know what, like I said…Emerson asked David Heyman when Emerson visited the set of Goblet of Fire and he talked to him and David Heyman (who is the producer…one of the producers of Goblet of Fire) actually said that: “No, their goal was to make all of the movies PG.” So, the MPAA thinks what they want to think, and that’s their final rating and it has to be final.
Kevin: One thing I did find funny though is that, after the MPAA makes their decision, the movie company has the ability to edit the movie before making that final. And just the fact that they made it final at that rating, it sort of indicates that they said to themselves: “You know what, I think they were right, and I don’t think we can cut out the scenes that they want us to cut out to make it PG.”
Aris: Right. Exactly. You have a death, a death pretty much…that’s a given PG-13 rating. Not to mention there’s blood in it, there are violent and frightening scenes, it’s not like it’s a cartoon…like a Disney movie.
Bambi. [Laughs]
The mother is getting killed, but this is real life. There is blood, and somebody’s dying right before your eyes. And there’s language to be said in it. I think it’s time that the Harry Potter franchise has expanded into a PG-13 rating. Order of the Phoenix is going to be PG-13. It has to be. You have another death in that book, and you have a lot of violence towards the end of the book. It’s hard to sugarcoat something like that. You really can’t change it. How do you make a death PG? How do you make blood PG? It’s difficult. You can’t really cut out those parts. They are crucial to the plot and to the story.
Andrew: Goblet of Fire was screen tested in Chicago a few weeks back and someone sent in a report to us. And the person described that when Cedric died, it was very graphic. Harry carries his dead body and you know, it’s got to be what it’s got to be.
Aris: Right you can’t really change that.
Kevin: And it’s not so much that someone dies, as much as it is the manner in which they die and the violence involved. There are plenty of movies out there where someone dies but they candy coat it, and I don’t think had the ability to can candy coat it. That’s what led to this.
Andrew: So how about future movies? Order of the Phoenix, there’s another death in that one. Half-Blood Prince, there’s another death in that one. To me the rest of the movies could be looking at PG-13 ratings.
Aris and Kevin: Absolutely.
Kevin: I think Aris was right it’s about time the movies grew into that role.
It gives them more flexibility as well; it makes it so that now they can push the boundaries of the PG-13 rating. One death is not really that great of a reason to make it PG-13. That’s probably what upset WB at that juncture. They probably hit that and said: “Wow we should have put some of the scenes that could have been put in, but we didn’t because we want to keep it PG.”
Andrew: How about parents who take their little kids to this? There are always a couple parents who take eight and nine-year-olds because they are into Harry Potter. Will this effect what they see? Will they be going to see this if they see PG-13 and maybe they haven’t read the books, and are just moviegoers? What are they going to do?
Aris: It is parental guidance suggested. I would probably have them read the book first to make sure that it would be safe for their child to see. It is Harry Potter and most parents would take their children to see a Harry Potter movie because they do know it is fantasy and most children do know real life from fantasy. And there is just that there is nothing much we can really do. They had the argument over the spiders and the basilisk in the second movie. Yeah, it might be scary to some of the kids, but they can read the book and imagine it their heads. Sure, it might be a little different, but this is what it’s all about. You can’t really change anything about it.
Kevin: I think that there will be some parents that won’t bring their children to it. There always will be that group. Even with the PG rating, with spiders as you said, there were parents that did complain about that. But so along as the parents have read the book themselves and know what scenes are coming up, and follow the general outline of the book, they can realize what scenes they need to lean over to their kids and touch them on the shoulders, and reassure them during the scenes as to not let them get scared.
Aris and Andrew: Exactly.
Andrew: I think that pretty much covers that topic. Warner Bros. will just have to deal with the PG-13 ratings. I think in the end it will help sales.
We’ve received such an overwhelming response from this podcast. Were at the last check No. 5 in iTunes. In international stores, we’re far up in the Top 100. We just want to thank you guys. The support has been overwhelming, and we appreciate every one tuning in, listening, subscribing, and sending us all the great feedback.
Kevin and Aris: Definitely.
Andrew:We’ve been getting hundreds of emails, and the feedback, all the suggestions…It’s just big! Kevin, you’ve seen me complain all week. It has just been big! So we’ve taken everyone’s suggestions. We have made changes! For one, you should notice our voices should be cleared. We’re recording this a little bit different way this time.
A lot of people also asked about transcripts. At this time we’re not really going to be able to do transcripts because that would be too much extra work for us right now. [Transcriber’s note: obviously this has changed]
We’d also like to thank the people who’ve done production offers, who’ve offered to help with production, and a lot of people who have asked for a mix of hosts, to get a couple girls in here. What you guys don’t actually know is Kevin is actually a girl!
[Laughs all around (minus Kevin)]
Kevin: Funny. Very funny.
Aris: It’s actually Kevina!
Andrew: I’m just kidding. I’m just kidding. Sorry, Kevin.
Aris and Andrew: Ben still loves you.
Kevin: That was a low blow!
Andrew: I’m sorry! I had to do it. For the show, Kevin. For the show.
Andrew: Moving on to our topics of discussion. This week, we’re going to take emails, questions we’ve had from people who want us to answer some of your questions.
Kevin: It is going to fill some time too.
Andrew: Oh, it’s going to fill a lot of time. We have so many questions. We have read all your emails. I did start replying to them, but then I realized it takes up too much time, but we are going through them all. We are pulling out people’s questions.
This first one comes from, actually from quite a few people. The current poll on MuggleNet asks which side is Draco on? And Lacey J. (14) from Greenville, Tennessee, Amanda (17) from Ontario, Canada, and Mel (17) from Missouri all ask: Who do you guys think, whose side Draco is on?
Kevin: I don’t even think Draco knows what side he’s on at this point. It seemed as, especially in that last scene when Dumbledore was talking to Draco, as though Draco himself was very confused.
Aris: He was afraid.
Kevin: Of course, and not only that, but he’s starting to realize, this isn’t fun and games, this isn’t pranks or anything, this is real life. You’re killing people. I think he’s starting to ask himself is it really worth it? Is it really going to lead me on the right path, or am I going to have to make a big decision and try to break off from Voldemort? Which as you know will almost definitely be deadly.
Aris: Personally, what I think will happen is…yes…Draco is confused, and he may be having second thoughts. I think it was a big responsibility for him to prove himself, when the first type of proof would have to be killing Dumbledore. If great wizards couldn’t even do it, or Death Eaters, or even Voldemort himself, what makes him think that he can do it? And on top of it all he’s confused. Maybe he now realizes “Is it worth going to Azkaban for? My father’s in there.” His father’s powers will be draining in there anyway. I think he will have second thoughts and end up somehow helping the trio and the good side in the end.
Kevin: I have the same feeling.
Aris: It may take the whole book. I think he’ll be there for Harry, Hermione, Ron, and everybody else at the end. He’ll surprise everybody.
Andrew: So you guys think Draco is going to make a full turnaround?
Kevin: I wouldn’t say a full turnaround, but I think some of his actions are going to have an effect in the end in helping Harry. He’s either going to do it unknowingly or he’s going to knowingly go “Wait a second, after I’ve done all this bad, maybe it’s about time to do good.”
Aris: Right, I think it could be a temporary alliance. Help them get to a certain point and then sever ties. Kind of like what you see in other stories. The enemy will help to a certain point, to rectify a common problem, and go separate ways after and not talk to each other. Have a temporary alliance and a temporary friendship. Call it quits after what needs to be rectified is rectified.
Andrew: Draco has obviously lost a lot fans with this book and he’s surprised quite a lot of people. You guys think he’s going to make a full turnaround, but I think he’s gotten so deep into trouble and there’s no going back for him. It’s just going to be: “Now I’m on the bad side and that’s it.”
Kevin: It’s possible, and the reason why I think he wouldn’t do that…is I think he’s realizing what’s going on a little more. Not to sound crude. It sounds as though he is realizing that he grew into his spot. He was forced into his spot by his parents and he’s starting to debate whether his parents really are the people who…
Andrew: I agree. He’s been forced into this. His parents are both on the bad side. His dad is now in Azkaban. He might be thinking: “I’ve got nothing to lose.”
Now looking ahead to Book 7, what are some possible deaths in Book 7? It could relate to the Horcrux, it could almost be Harry? What do you guys think? Who is going to kick the can in HP 7?
Kevin: I actually don’t know. I think that it’s possible that…not possible, but highly plausible that some of the Order is going to be killed.
Aris: Right. I agree.
Kevin: There are only so many we’ve seen from the Order, so we know it’s going to be a select few people. I hate to say it, but I am not so sure about this whole Lupin thing because it seems as though JKR was building it up too much. It concerns me because she has a habit of building something up like that, as in Sirius’ case, and then something happens to that character. So, I think that’s a distinct possibility, either Tonks or Lupin. I am not sure.
Aris: I think personally that McGonagall might get killed because I think she’s going to be…aside from Lupin, possibly the next person Harry will end up going to. I’ve been going back and forth between three people. I think Harry will probably got to Mrs. Weasley, Remus Lupin, or McGonagall. Those are the three people I think he’d look to next to find advice from. So those three people will somehow die in the next book or get really injured.
Kevin: That brings up another question. Do you think he’s actually going to be going for advice or do you think he’s going to do it on his own? We discussed this in the previous podcast, but I’d like your viewpoint.
Aris: He’s only going to be able to do so much, and I think he’s definitely going to need somebody else’s opinion; especially somebody as wise as McGonagall. McGonagall spent a lot of time with Dumbledore. She’s familiar with his ways and a lot of the stuff that he knows, she pretty much knows. So I think she would be the next person Harry would go to possibly for some advice or maybe even pursue some form of training. You think he is going for his Auror training so maybe she could aid him in some of that. She was weakened in the 5th Book from all the stuns. I don’t think she is still as strong as she was. I think she’d be pretty vulnerable in the 7th Book somehow.
Kevin: Yeah.
Andrew: Now we’re going to get to a few voicemails people left us. In the middle of the week we opened up a nice little way for you guys to send in your voicemails and ask your questions. So we’re going to play a few of them right now and see if we can answer them. Let’s listen to the first one. This from Peter who has a question about the prophecy…
[Audio]: Hi, this is Peter from St. Louis, Missouri, and I was wondering what do you think the prophecy “neither can live while the other survive” actually means?
Andrew: Okay Kevin, what do you think the prophecy means?
Kevin: There are a couple rumors; well I should say theories out there. To be honest from the beginning I think it simply meant what it was supposed to mean. JKR was trying to mislead us. It simply means one has to kill the other. Neither can die until that happens. So essentially Voldemort has to kill Harry or Harry has to kill Voldemort. There can be no other way they can die. A lot of people are bothered by this because it would mean that Harry and Voldemort would almost be immortal. If you think about it, it is a lot more plausible now that you look at the Horcruxes and Harry’s situation. The Death Eaters have been told not to touch Harry, and also Voldemort has all the Horcruxes. So there’s no one to kill Harry right now except Voldemort, and any Auror that was going to kill Voldemort would kill him, but he’d still be alive. I think it is simply means that one has to kill the other.
Andrew: It’s a pretty straightforward statement JKR made. One has to die, the other lives.
Kevin: But at the same time people have been debating about whether or not it really means that.
Andrew: Oh yeah. It’s a big topic.
Kevin: It is.
Andrew: JKR…Queen of Deception.
Aris: They find all the Horcruxes, the only soul that will be left is the one that’s in Voldemort’s body right now. Once Harry kills him…that’s it. He’ll be gone. I don’t think it will be able to be done by wand magic because you saw what happened with the two wands. They can’t attack each other. It is either going to be wandless magic that has to happen or some other form of magic or weapon.
Kevin: Definitely.
Andrew: Now let’s take a listen to Question No. 2…
[Audio]: Hi, my name is Dominique. I just would like to say I love MuggleCast, MuggleNet. You guys are doing a great job. I was wondering why did Dumbledore give Snape the DADA post when he knew that the job was jinxed, since Voldemort had asked for that post many years before? He tells Harry this, and I was wondering what your views were on the issue? Sorry if this has already been discussed, but thanks very much.
Andrew: Well, thank you, Dominique. Glad to hear you like the show. Kevin, you want to respond to this one?
Kevin: One of the main reasons why Dumbledore gave this to Snape was simply because Voldemort was out. He was known to be out. Dumbledore knew that Snape had connections to Voldemort, so obviously if Voldemort had placed a legitimate jinx or curse on the position he wouldn’t use that curse against this own Death Eater. So Snape seemed like the right person for the job because not only is he connected to Voldemort, but he is guaranteed to be able to keep the position knowing that Voldemort is out. I don’t know what you guys think. If you understand what I mean. Voldemort wouldn’t kill his own Death Eater.
Aris: Yes, he would.
Kevin: Yeah, but remember that Voldemort’s most loyal servant is Snape. You don’t know why, but he is.
Aris: When Tom Riddle arrived at Hogwarts to ask Dumbledore about teaching DADA, Dumbledore refused. It has been said that he wanted to teach there to acquire a particular item, possibly by the founders of Hogwarts, to make into a Horcrux. We know he had a passion for trophy collecting as seen later on in the book in a memory, so it would only make sense to assume that he could have been after one of the founders’ possessions. But since Dumbledore rejected Riddle for the post, no teacher has since been there longer than a year which means Riddle must have cursed the post. I think Dumbledore knows about the curse to the position, and I think he assumed things would have been rectified before the year was up, before the curse could fully take effect.
Andrew: I’d have to agree. Tom Riddle was very upset when he was rejected from that job. So in order to try and get it in future years, he put that curse on. And, it just makes sense.
Kevin: Do you think that was intentional, Dumbledore knowing that Snape and Harry absolutely did not get along? It seems as though it would be a bad decision considering that the one class that Harry has got to learn is the one that Dumbledore chooses Harry’s most hateful teacher for.
Andrew: He hasn’t always been extremely nice to Harry. Like in Order of the Phoenix, he was avoiding him often, and I think this sort of relates because Dumbledore is not going to walk him through. He doesn’t really care that Harry is in the same class with Snape because Dumbledore has been giving him his own lessons and teaching him what’s going on. Now Dumbledore, in Book 6 did not teach Harry DADA, but he sure taught him a lot that was probably more worth his while than Snape’s DADA classes.
Kevin: That’s true.
Andrew: Let’s take Question 3. This is from Michael…
[Audio]: Hi! I was wondering if any of you here on MuggleCast knew the chapter “Spinner’s End” says:
“I only meant…that nobody yet has succeeded…Severus…. please…You are, you always have been, Draco’s favorite teacher.” (Half-Blood Prince, pg.33)
My question for this would be “Severus…please” was the same thing that Dumbledore said to Snape before he was killed. Do you think Snape was acting upon Dumbledore’s word or was he fulfilling the Unbreakable Vow and joining the Death Eaters? What do you guys think?
Kevin: I think he was doing both.
Andrew: I agree.
Kevin: I think that Dumbledore and Snape had a pre-set agreement and the agreement was that if Snape ever were in the position to risk his spot amongst the Death Eaters, even if it means killing Dumbledore he would not do so, he would not risk it at all. I think that, and rightly so, that Dumbledore thinks that Snape’s position is far more important than Dumbledore’s own which is outside the Death Eaters. You have inside information through Snape, and I’m sure that Snape will be able to help Harry in some way. If we are correct.
Andrew: You know Kevin, I agree with you. That’s probably true, but I think that Snape probably made an Unbreakable Vow with Dumbledore. Dumbledore has put so much trust in Snape and he trusts him completely and he told…he’s said it to Harry.
Kevin: And I think that would explain Snape’s confidence in entering the Unbreakable Vow in the first place with Narcissa. I think that’s why he was so confident and so quick to agree to take that Unbreakable Vow because he knew he would never enter a situation that would sacrifice Harry life over Lord Voldemort’s or Draco’s. I would be interested in knowing, and it’s a possibility of asking JKR this on a future occasion: What happens to stacked Unbreakable Vows, meaning if you take one and one conflicts with the other, which takes precedence?
Aris: Right and we don’t even know if more than one Unbreakable Vow can even be made.
Kevin: That’s true.
Andrew: Yep.
Aris: Exactly, so I think if you made an Unbreakable Vow with somebody you’d have to make sure the next Unbreakable Vow you made didn’t contradict with the one you made previously.
Andrew: But what would happen?
Aris: I don’t know. You could simply say “I’m going to love you forever”. Do you really mean that? If you don’t love me. If you say you don’t love me, you’ll die. Okay, but then can I make an Unbreakable Vow with somebody else, and say “Oh, I’ll buy you a car when you turn 18”? Is that a promise? Sure, yes. An Unbreakable Vow…I think maybe you can’t have them…multiple Unbreakable Vows…but we don’t know that. So…
Kevin: It’s all speculation. Definitely.
Andrew: Let’s take another question here. This is from Marissa…
[Audio]: JKR said something huge would be revealed about Lily Potter. Do you think it is possible that Snape and Lily had a relationship and that Snape told Voldemort not to kill her?
Andrew: Now this is a good question because we had learned that in Book 6 something huge would be revealed about Lily. And there was nothing completely clear that we did learn. Kevin, what do you think?
Kevin: What’s funny about it is that I do agree that there was definitely something going on between Snape and Lily. I think JKR tried to make that clear in her own little way, but at the same time there’s a question of whether it was a relationship or it was a crush? It is possible that Snape just had a crush on Lily, and in that case he would be just as mad as if he had a relationship with her. It seems like those two possibilities are out there. And there’s no clear way of telling which one it is, but I do agree that there was something going on between the two of them.
Andrew: I would have to say it was a crush because there’s been some back-story here and there about how Snape and Lily were both into Potions. They were both big on Potions, and with that it’s completely possible that Snape had a crush on Lily. But Lily was always into James, which would explain why Snape has ever since then, up until Harry’s lifetime, he’s been so…he’s hated Harry so much…or so we think.
Kevin: Another thing that has been suggested is what if there was a friendship going on? What if during Potions, Snape and Lily gained a friendship, and through James and Lily getting together that friendship was either marred or destroyed? And him becoming bitter because of that? It would make sense because Lily stood up for Snape in that one scene with the pensive. That’s another possibility.
Andrew: I would have to say it was destroyed because James and Lily weren’t together when they were in Hogwarts, but I think Lily had the stronger crush on James. That would have obviously upset Snape and destroyed the relationship.
Kevin: Definitely.
Aris: Yeah, I have no comment on this. I think you guys nailed it.
Andrew: Question No. 5. This is from Christine (Andrew completely butchers her name).
Kevin: You slaughtered that, Andrew.
Andrew: I know. I’m sorry!
Aris: This is the beauty of post-production.
Kevin: Just for everyone’s knowledge, we do slaughter pronunciations of names; so don’t go too hard on us.
Andrew: You know that new pronunciation guide that Scholastic updated the other day with all the pronunciations? I was looking at it the earlier today.
Kevin: Oh really?
Aris: That was pretty spiffy.
Kevin: It is apparent I haven’t read it.
[All Laugh]
Andrew: Clearly let’s take this next one from Christine…
[Audio]: I have a question about Mr. Ollivander’s disappearance. It was stated in the Half-Blood Prince that the wandmaker went missing or disappeared on page 106. Lupin also made the comment that if the other side has Ollivander, it is not good for them. Do you think Voldemort and the Death Eater have Ollivander, and if they do, how is it going to affect Harry and the Wizarding World?
Andrew: What has happened with Ollivander? He, of course, has had his wand shop Diagon Alley and he disappeared in Book 6. Aris, what do you have to say about that?
Aris: I think once he realized what was going on…he might have heard the whole Voldemort-Harry story…obviously he knows about the wands connecting. I think it was only a matter of time where he himself was hunted to figure out what can happen or how they can break the connection with the two wands. I think he just seriously high-tailed it out of Diagon Alley and just relocated or hid somewhere.
Kevin: There are two possibilities and they are both plausible. One, he got kidnapped. Which I don’t think is a plausible because I believe Dumbledore would have been a little more nervous and would have told Harry about that. The other possibility is that he realized that he was in danger and how important he was, and he decided that for the sake of safety for himself and other people to leave Diagon Alley. I believe that’s the more likely of the two.
Andrew: Let’s say that the Death Eaters took him or he got kidnapped. Say they wanted him to give them some expertise in the wand business. Is that feasible?
Kevin: I don’t think it is feasible. I think the only way they would be able to extract that information would be through a curse. I don’t think that Ollivander would purposely give that up. He knows the value of himself too well to sacrifice that information. He would have to be cursed in order to do it.
Aris: Or he could be a Secret-Keeper.
Kevin: That’s true, absolutely.
Andrew: I feel bad for the guy. I hope he writes me a letter and tells me where he is because I miss him. He’s really nice.
[All laugh]
Andrew: All right guys I think that wraps up Episode Two of MuggleCast. Once again, I’m Andrew Sims.
Kevin: I’m Kevin Steck.
Aris: And I’m Aris Janetakos.
Andrew: We’d like to thank Aris for making a special appearance on the show today. You can check him out as well. Aris has his own news show at Veritaserum with Veritaserum OnAir! Thanks Aris for joining us.
Aris: Thanks for having me.
Andrew: It was pleasure and if Ben poops out again next week, you’re number one on the list.
Aris: Oh thanks guys. I appreciate it.
Andrew: You can pray on his technical difficulties.
Ben [Show Close]: Thanks to everybody for listening for this week’s show. If you have any questions or comments or wish to view our show notes please visit www.mugglecast.com
or www.mugglenet.com/mugglecast. If you want to send in a voice message to possibly be played on the show, please email an attached .wav or .mp3 file to voice at staff dot mugglenet dot com. Soon we’ll hopefully have a skype voiceline for those of you who wish to, can ring in. Join us again next week when we’ll be joined by MuggleNet staff member Jamie Lawrence. Thanks again for listening, and in the words of Leo Laporte, another MuggleCast is in the can!
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