Transcript for MuggleCast Episode #436, ALL CAPS (OOTP Chapter 4, ’12 Grimmauld Place’)
Show Intro
[Show music plays]
Andrew Sims: Welcome to MuggleCast Episode 436, your weekly ride into the Wizarding World. I’m Andrew.
Eric Scull: I’m Eric.
Micah Tannenbaum: I’m Micah.
Laura Tee: And I’m Laura.
Andrew: On today’s episode, we will be discussing Order of the Phoenix Chapter 4, “Twelve Grimmauld Place.” We also have an exciting little update from one of our listeners who got the Goblet of Fire illustrated edition two weeks early!
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Andrew: I don’t know how Amazon screwed up so badly. But he called in with his thoughts on it, so we’re going to hear those in just a moment. Laura, you ran into one of our listeners this week, didn’t you?
Laura: Yeah, so I ran into a listener of I think both podcasts, named Sako. We were just randomly in the elevator together. He asked me what floor I was going to, I told him, and he turned to me and he went, “Wait, are you Laura Tee? From the podcasts?” And I had this moment of… my brain exploded because I was leaving work, so you know when worlds collide and you’re not expecting it? And I was like, “Whoa, wait. Does not compute. I’m in work mode and I’m talking to a listener.” But it was so cool; it was such a cool opportunity to meet somebody, and we had a really brief chat, and he was so sweet. So I really appreciated you saying hi, Sako, and I wanted to make sure to give you a shout-out on the show.
Eric: Did he really say, “Are you Laura Tee from the podcasts?”
Laura: Yes.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Laura: Yeah, something along those lines. I didn’t transcribe it.
Eric: “You know, from the podcasts.”
Laura: It was really cool.
Andrew: There’s only one Laura Tee from the podcasts.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: That’s true. That’s very true.
Laura: It’s like Jenny from the Block, except Laura from the podcasts. [laughs]
Andrew: Laura from the podcasts. [sings] “I’m still Laura from the podcasts.”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Laura: No, it was super cool, though.
Andrew: Yeah, that’s funny.
Listener Feedback
Andrew: So let’s hear from our listener, Fernando. He got the Goblet of Fire illustrated edition two weeks early; Amazon somehow screwed up. They don’t do that too often, especially for a big book like Harry Potter. So he called in with his thoughts, because he likes the book, but he also has a couple of issues with it. So let’s listen to this.
[Voicemail plays]
“Hi, folks. It’s Fernando from Mexico. So this week, I received in the mail the illustrated edition of Goblet of Fire a bit earlier than expected; it was a nice surprise. It’s great. It’s a great book; I love the way it turned out. The illustrations are beautiful, just as you would expect from Jim Kay, so no complaints about the actual illustrations that are included. I did get some questions about how big the book is and how many pictures does it have. It’s a big book, of course, but it’s actually not as big as you would expect, especially when compared to Prisoner of Azkaban and the previous three books. It’s mainly, I think, because the paper is not as thick, so you can feel that the paper is thinner; and the font is also smaller, so that definitely contributed to making the book not as big as you would think. In terms of the number of illustrations, it does feel like it… well, no, it doesn’t feel – it definitely has less illustrations per chapter than previous books. It’s more heavily illustrated towards the beginning and the end of the book, but the middle chapters are left with very few illustrations. I found three chapters that do not have a single illustration, and there are a few of them that only have one picture. So you definitely feel that it’s not a fully illustrated book in the way that Sorcerer’s Stone felt and like the other, especially the second book in the illustrated series. So it’s still great; the illustrations are amazing, but you can definitely feel that it’s not as heavily illustrated, which… I think it’s expected as the books get bigger; it’s just going to get harder to get the same feeling of a fully illustrated experience. But yeah, I still think it’s definitely worth it. It’s still beautiful. Every fan who started collecting the first three illustrated editions will want to have this one as part of their collection, so I’m looking forward for everyone to get their copy and to hear everyone’s thoughts on the book. Thank you, bye.”
[Voicemail ends]
Eric: Awesome.
Andrew: Thank you, Fernando.
Laura: Wow. First of all, great audio quality.
Andrew: Yes, he used the Voice Memos app. That is the new request that I’m sending people. But I’m surprised to hear that three chapters had no illustrations at all.
Eric: Amazing, yeah.
Andrew: Amazing? What’s amazing about that? [laughs]
Eric: Well, it spells doom, I think.
Andrew: Doom?!
Eric: Well, okay, maybe not doom, but… okay, as for the no illustrations per chapter, I think Fernando really raises a good question: Can you call this an illustrated…? But it’s not fully illustrated. I mean, if there’s three chapters that don’t even…
Andrew: Well…
Eric: I mean, that’s… okay, to be honest, if you go back to the original Harry Potter books that came out in the US, that’s three chapters that have fewer images than they did in the original book because they at least…
Andrew: It’s still an illustrated edition. I don’t want to start saying, “This isn’t an illustrated edition.”
Eric: Okay.
Andrew: It’s just disappointing; I think they maybe should have had at least one illustration for every single chapter, at least.
Eric: Well, that’s the lowest bar possible, because even the original books had chapter images. But I think, too, the reason I say it spells doom or whatever is because look at the next book. Look ahead. If there are chapters in Goblet of Fire that are just, meh, middle chapters – they don’t really mean a lot, don’t even warrant an image – what are you going to do when you get to Book 5, when there’s so much going on that there are many more expendable events in the book? Is Jim Kay going to start only producing artwork for the climactic, like Fernando said, beginning and the end are very lush, very rich with stuff, but is that going to be what the illustrated editions become, where they only illustrate the biggest scenes? This is concerning.
Micah: I’m not really concerned about this at all. I would rather take a look at the book myself first before passing any kind of judgment. I think Fernando did a great job laying out all his thoughts about the book, and I’m sure he’s telling us the truth as it relates to the front and the back end being heavier than the middle, but maybe there just wasn’t anything compelling to draw for some of these chapters. Maybe there was nothing in there that really worked. And let’s also remember that I’m sure Jim Kay is held to a certain… his editors may jump in and say, “Well, we need to cut this because the book is too long,” or there could be a million and one reasons why those three chapters don’t have any illustrations. He may have illustrated something for them, but maybe it ended up on the chopping room floor. I mean, we have no idea. And bottom line is, if you don’t like it, don’t buy it.
Eric: Wow. Okay.
Andrew: Yeah, don’t buy it, Eric.
Eric: [laughs] But the other thing that I’m a little bit concerned about also is the smaller font, like Fernando was saying. So this is something that is clearly a direct response to the books getting longer, right? And I still am going to say that they are going to need to have two separate books for Book 5, I’m now more convinced than ever…
Micah: It’s not going to happen. It will not happen.
Andrew: Sorry.
Eric: I am now… even if they release at the same time, they’re going to be bound twice. It’s going to happen, I’m telling you…
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: … because the smaller font is less legible for kids, and I think that’s why they’re doing these illustrated editions to begin with, is to get in on that storybook feel. And if the font has to be smaller just so they can make a smaller book that’s able to be lifted by a child, they might as well just do two books, honestly.
Micah: Eh. It’s not going to happen.
Andrew: So we’ll offer a proper review once it’s released on October 8. As soon as Fernando said that he received the book early, I ordered it from Amazon in hopes of getting it early myself, but that has not happened yet.
[Eric laughs]
Micah: Can you imagine if that happened with Deathly Hallows?
Eric: Oh my God.
Andrew: Oh, yeah. J.K. Rowling would have burned down the Amazon.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: That Amazon, not the Amazon we want to stay up.
Laura: You mean the one that’s already burning.
Andrew: Right.
Laura: Yeah, so I wonder if this had something to do with an international shipping snafu.
Andrew: Maybe.
Laura: I presume they might have to get those out a little bit earlier to have them there on release day, and maybe somebody screwed up and got it out way too early.
Andrew: Yeah. Time now for a piece of feedback concerning last week’s episode. Micah, do you want to read this?
Micah: Sure, so this email comes from Will, and he actually has a number of different questions, but I thought it kind of covers off on a lot of different things that we spoke about.
“Just a few thoughts/queries regarding the most recent episode. Firstly, what exactly was Umbridge’s plan here? If the Dementors had sucked out Harry’s soul, what next? Was she going to hide his ‘body’ and try to make it look like he ran away? Surely if he was found, it wouldn’t take long for them to realize his soul was missing, and given there is only one way this can happen, there would be a lot of questions for the Ministry.
Secondly, controversially, there may be one good thing about the Dementor attack: It allowed Harry contact with the magical world and to vent his anger. If nothing had happened and he had been alone all summer, it would have been much worse when he finally was able to interact with his friends, as he would have lost it; especially when he found out Ron and Hermione had been at Grimmauld Place together for at least part of the summer.
Thirdly, what the hell is Dumbledore thinking? Harry has been through an incredibly traumatic event and he’s been left without any support or anyone to talk to. He probably has PTSD and needs a lot of therapy. Between this, the Dursleys treating him like a house-elf, and his nightmares, its a wonder he didn’t break and start lashing out.
Finally, although he did magic in front of a Muggle, Dudley already knows magic exists. The Ministry’s main issue seems to be him breaking the International Statute of Secrecy. Given Dudley already knows magic exists, this seems to be a moot point. Also, couldn’t they extract Harry’s memories and use a Pensieve to see what happened – both with the Dementor attack and in the graveyard?
Also, if anyone’s collecting that Best-Kept Lawn award, it should be Harry, as he did all the work.”
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Laura: Agreed. I think these are good points that Will brings up. I think ultimately, the thing to remember here is that the Ministry is trying to discredit Harry, so I don’t think that they would go out of their way to do anything like use a Pensieve to verify what happened. I mean, we kind of see this a little bit later when he’s having his trial, where Dumbledore shows up and is trying to force them to allow Harry to have witnesses and you can tell Fudge is really flustered, because he was deliberately trying to change Harry’s hearing time to prevent that from happening, so we already know the Ministry is being corrupt in this way. And the other thing is, we know the Daily Prophet is undermining Harry at every turn, so if Harry’s soul had been sucked out, it would have been really convenient for them to be like, “Look, see how unstable he was? He’s just, like, catatonic now,” and they wouldn’t probably admit that it was a Dementor attack.
Eric: I agree with that completely, yeah. But this minor plot hole about Dudley and the Statute of Secrecy is my favorite part of this email. I guess I never thought about this, that, well, who did he break the Statute of Secrecy to?
Laura: All right, before we move on to Chapter by Chapter, we’ve got a quick word from one of our sponsors.
[Ad break]
Andrew: All right, thank you, Laura.
Chapter by Chapter: Seven-Word Summary
Andrew: And it’s time now for Chapter by Chapter. This week, we’re discussing Order of the Phoenix Chapter 4, “Twelve Grimmauld Place,” and let’s start with the seven-word summary. Thank you, Eric, for putting together a plan. [laughs] As I speak.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Eric: We got it, we got it, we got it.
Andrew: You’re up first, Micah.
Micah: Harry…
Laura: … shouts…
Andrew: Harry shouts.
Eric: … loudly…
Andrew: … at…
Micah: … everyone…
Laura: Ooh, we’re backing ourselves into a corner here.
Eric: I feel it. I feel it. We’ve got to breathe. We can do this. Laura, you and me, we got this.
Laura: Yeah, yeah, I know. Okay, Eric, I think you’ve got this. I’m going to say… in…
Eric: Hmm.
Laura: I’m thinking about, like, an emotion.
Eric: Oh, yeah. Okay, I got you.
Andrew: Is this Password now?
Eric: … Caps Lock.
[Micah laughs]
Andrew: Oh, okay.
Laura: There we go. That’s beautiful.
Andrew: Yeah, and we will talk about that Caps Lock.
Micah: Yeah. No, I was thinking earshot, but…
Eric: Oooh.
Andrew: Oh, yeah.
Eric: “Frustration,” I think, Laura, was that…?
Laura: I was thinking frustration, yeah.
Eric: Yeah. No, I got you. And then I was like, “Oh yeah, an emotion? Caps Lock. Okay, there we go.”
Laura: Yeah, Caps Lock is better. I like it.
Eric: Thanks.
Chapter by Chapter: Main Discussion
Andrew: So this is a great chapter because Harry finally is reunited with Ron and Hermione and Molly and a few other of his friends, and it begins with Harry thinking, then entering, 12 Grimmauld Place. And the security here is simple: 12 Grimmauld Place will come into existence if Dumbledore tells you it exists. He’s the Secret Keeper. So it comes into existence, and like I said at the end of last week’s episode, I don’t really understand how 12 Grimmauld Place comes into existence and doesn’t affect the houses to the left and right of it. It just does not make sense from a physics perspective. [laughs]
Eric: What doesn’t…? So my thing is the house is always there, you just can’t see it. So the description of the house pushing the other houses aside, much like it does in the movie – I think it was adapted perfectly – is just really your perception of it. So any human being that lays eyes on 12, or on that courtyard, would only see the house on the left and the house on the right. But once you’re let in on the secret, it’s like your vision opens up. Nothing’s changing with the building; nothing’s changing with the structure of the building at all. But it’s like in Doctor Who they have a perception filter, where it’s like you can just see… you can’t see the middle.
Laura: And I think J.K. Rowling already established in the series that magic can work with spatial limitations in terms of expanding and compacting. Look at the tent that they all stay in in Goblet of Fire, and then again in Deathly Hallows, and then also Hermione’s bag in Deathly Hallows. I think… what’s the charm that she put on it? Some kind of expansion charm?
Eric: Extension charm. But we learn that what’s protecting Grimmauld Place now is the Fidelius Charm. This is the same thing that hid James and Lily from Voldemort, that it makes whatever exists invisible. So it’s not like they made 12 Grimmauld Place in a pocket, in a wedge in a crack in between buildings. When the buildings were built, there was no charm on it. So the buildings were built with 12 numbered and there; the only thing is any human being just can’t see it unless they’re let in on the secret. That’s the only thing that’s changed, is Harry’s vision of it.
Micah: Yeah, Harry is seeing it for the first time. That’s kind of how I’ve always interpreted it, is Harry is reading the piece of paper that Dumbledore has written on, and for the first time, because he’s being let in on the secret, the houses shift. He wouldn’t otherwise be able to see Number 12 Grimmauld Place, just like anybody else walking down the street wouldn’t be able to see it. It doesn’t mean that it’s not there. I kind of liken it to Hogwarts, right? If a Muggle is walking by Hogwarts, they don’t see Hogwarts; they just see rubble and a sign that says, “Keep out.” So it’s almost the same thing here for Harry, where he’s being let in on the headquarters of the Order of the Phoenix and it’s like a world is opening up to him, and he now should be able to see it normally, right? Without having to have that shift take place. And one thing about the movies, if I’m remembering correctly: Number 12 Grimmauld Place – at least the neighborhood that it’s in – seems to be much more upscale than what is described in the books, because in the books, it seems to be much more rundown.
Andrew: So Harry walks in and immediately we’re greeted with some grim foreshadowing. The line is, “The others’ hushed voices were giving Harry an odd feeling of foreboding; it was as though they had just entered the house of a dying person.” Uh-oh. Goodbye, Sirius.
Laura: Yeah, I was going to say, “They had.”
Andrew: Yep, they had.
Eric: That’s so grim.
Andrew: Purposeful foreshadowing from J.K. Rowling, right?
Eric: Yeah. Is it more than that? I’m wondering if… I want to ask this question later, but could it be that the presence of 1/8 of Voldemort’s soul has created an overall aesthetic like this? They mention decontaminating, but I’m wondering if a lot of these little creatures and things that live, that give the place this moldy old feel, could be a result of just the kinds of magic that exists here and was done here before.
Andrew: Yeah. Well, I think – speaking literally – the house, obviously it’s very rundown. Like you said, they have to… they’re spending a lot of time cleaning it up; that’s why Harry feels that way. But it also doubles for J.K. Rowling as a moment to get in some foreshadowing about Sirius because this is basically Sirius’s home, and she wants to warn us that something’s coming that’s not good.
Eric: Absolutely.
Micah: There is something to be said for that, but at the same time, I think this is one of many instances – and we should keep our eyes open throughout Order of the Phoenix – that spells doom for Sirius.
Eric: Yeah, Sirius himself is often described as being grim or looking gaunt, and it is just not good beans at all.
Andrew: Yeah. I also found it interesting that a couple pages later, Harry describes the house “as though it belonged to the Darkest of wizards,” which I found interesting because two books ago, that was Sirius to Harry. He was the Darkest of wizards.
Eric: Oh, man. I love that.
Laura: That’s a really nice kind of connecting the threats moment. I love that.
Andrew: Yay, I did one.
[Everyone laughs]
Micah: Go Andrew.
Andrew: And what did you notice, Micah?
Micah: Yeah, one thing that I noticed is that this was our first introduction to a wizarding home that isn’t the Burrow, and man, could it be any more different? It’s pretty much the complete opposite.
Eric: [laughs] Though, just as cluttered. There’s something about J.K. Rowling’s homes for wizards – I’m thinking of the Lovegoods too – that just strikes me as being very cluttered. They have magic; they could organize better. They could swish their wand and things could be a little cleaner. But it seems like J.K. Rowling just, I think, is interested in creatively writing homes that have seen better days.
Andrew: Yeah. Maybe it speaks to her desire to write with so much detail? If it’s a messy home, she can talk about every little thing that’s scattered about. [laughs]
Eric: Exactly.
Andrew: I also just get the impression that wizards are kind of just hippies…
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Eric: Definitely.
Andrew: … and they have better things to do than keep an organized home.
Laura: Well, yeah, we kind of see this with Tonks in the earlier chapter, where she observes that the Dursleys are very clean.
Eric: Oh, yeah!
Laura: And she was like, “This is so…” She really implies that she finds it to be very antiseptic and not welcoming, and there is something, I think, welcoming about a home that’s not necessarily messy, but that looks like it’s lived in, right? So I think that’s the aesthetic that J.K. Rowling tends to go for in the wizarding world, to make it come across as a more welcoming environment. Most of the time – I mean, obviously Grimmauld Place is an exception.
Eric: Moldering, yeah.
Laura: Yeah, I mean, there’s literally elf heads on the walls.
Eric: [laughs] Which, that… to just touch on “He was in the home of one of the Darkest of wizards,” I think that’s a good indicator. I mean, it’s kind of sick, and I wonder if it’s… I mean, they’re just magically preserved. The house-elves that served the Black family are preserved on the wall. There’s really no human analog for chopping off the heads of your servants and putting them on the wall after they die. I don’t think that that’s anything that we’d ever see here, but it’s very dark.
Micah: Well, don’t people stuff their dogs or their cats and…?
Eric: Oh, yeah, taxidermying their former pets.
Andrew: Eurgh.
Eric: But that, I guess, illustrates very well the relationship between human beings and house-elves.
Laura: I think the difference is, though, house-elves are slaves.
Andrew and Eric: Yeah.
Laura: So I don’t know. And when you look at the history of slavery, especially in this country, I think you’ll find that maybe we’re not necessarily looking at dead bodies being preserved and mounted, but there were plenty of ways that slave owners physically intervened with slaves’ bodies while they were alive, so this, I think, is a really interesting parallel to that.
Andrew: I also wanted to touch on the number 12 in the Harry Potter series. So throughout the whole series, J.K. Rowling would frequently reference numbers or make other references throughout the series; number 12 was a big one, especially in Order of the Phoenix, and I thought it would be appropriate to talk about it now with 12 Grimmauld Place. MuggleNet had a great page in which you could find every single reference – and I spoke in the past tense; it’s still up – you can find every single reference to the number 12, the number 7, the number 4, socks…
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: … commonalities between chapters 13 in every book… all kinds of things, and I used to be fascinated by this. So let’s review the number 12 in the Harry Potter series; this is just a fraction of the times it’s used by J.K. Rowling. First of all, on the Order of the Phoenix cover, 12 candles in the foreground.
Eric: Oh.
Andrew: 12 Grimmauld Place, obviously. Sirius spent 12 years in Azkaban; he also allegedly murdered 12 Muggles. Pettigrew really did murder 12 Muggles. There are 12 doors in the circular room in the Department of Mysteries, 12 uses of dragon’s blood, 12 subjects offered at Hogwarts. At the Department of Mysteries battle, there were 12 Death Eaters versus 12 good guys. And then some other things, like at the Prisoner of Azkaban Christmas feast, Trelawney counts 12 people at the table and then refuses to sit.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: The Great Hall every year is also decorated with 12 trees at Christmas. And like I said, that’s just a fraction. I just love how she gets obsessed with one particular number and just runs with it. [laughs]
Eric: Yeah, and 12 has so many other great uses, too, because of the hands of a clock and time. So there’s probably more than a little references in Book 3 that will find a 12 – like you said, Trelawney, too – because time travel is involved. There’s just so many. And she does that with 13; a lot of the times we see 12, it’s to avoid 13, like with Trelawney not wanting to sit down because it’s one fewer or one more. And I have to say, that MuggleNet page, those pages, really owe a lot to Galadriel Waters and Astre Mithrandir’s Ultimate Unofficial Guide to the Mysteries of Harry Potter, that excellent book. It had a couple of sequels. They were the first ones to point out, as far as I’m aware, back in 2003 that there’s a lot going on, and that everything J.K. Rowling writes can be viewed under the lens of it being intentional, and I think, really, we just took that as a fandom and ran with it, and these connections are all very fascinating.
Andrew: Were there any numbers or other commonalities across the series that you guys were particularly interested in?
Eric: I love the one that says that on Halloween, the true bad guy is revealed always. So that happens in the first couple books; I think it ended up not happening later. But as recently as Book 4, I think Mad-Eye Moody comes in the Great Hall, or storms in or something, and it’s like, “Oh, that’s Barty Crouch,” so that’s the bad guy. It’s pretty cool. Sirius Black breaks in during Prisoner of Azkaban. The troll in the dungeon in Book 1, with Quirrell coming in. I’m forgetting Book 2, but I think it’s probably something similar.
Micah: I think it’s the first attack of the Basilisk happens on Halloween.
Eric: Oh, there you go.
Laura: Yeah, they go to the deathday party.
Eric: Oh, that’s right.
Micah: And then they find Mrs. Norris?
Laura: Yeah, I think you’re right. I mean, it’s not a secret that I love connecting the threads.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Eric: I’m going to get you a T-shirt, Laura, that says, “Connecting…”
Laura: “Connecting the threads.”
Micah: Laura, you should write a book.
Eric: “Thread Connector.”
Micah: There we go. Laura’s ultimate guide to the Harry Potter series.
Laura: I’ll ask J.K. Rowling first.
Andrew: By Laura from the podcasts.
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: Okay, so when Harry comes in the first person he meets is Molly, who tells him that a meeting of the Order of the Phoenix is currently taking place, but he’s not yet allowed in on the conversations, and this starts to get Harry’s blood boiling so he’s told to just go see Ron and Hermione. And Harry is starting to get angry right now, right, Micah?
Micah: Yeah, I would too. If I just showed up in this random house, got no clue where I am, and I see somebody that I haven’t seen in a long time who’s like a mother figure to me, and immediately I’m told, “Hey, go upstairs to see your friends that haven’t been corresponding with you for the last couple of months,” I’d be pretty pissed off.
Andrew: [laughs] Yeah.
Micah: I mean, and it’s another situation, even further, where he’s not getting information. And if I were him, I would have just barged into the meeting. At this point, who cares, right? With everything that he’s been through, I would have just slipped past Molly, walked right into the kitchen, and just sat down until somebody told me what was going on.
Andrew: Right.
Eric: It’s bad form. That would be bad form. But considering how he treats his friends in this chapter, I don’t think you’re far off. I think he should have done that.
Andrew: Well, especially because now that he’s with everybody else, he was assuming, “Okay, the wait is over; I’m finally going to find out what the heck is going on,” and then he’s still pushed away.
Micah: Yeah, and J.K. Rowling does a very good job of still keeping information from Harry when Molly tells him, “Be very quiet as you walk up the stairs, so that you don’t wake anything up,” and again, why not just tell him where he is and why he needs to be quiet? Because it leads to what happens at the end of the chapter. It’s not his fault necessarily – it’s Tonks’s fault – but just give him some information here.
Eric: Exactly. I mean, what…?
Laura: I think that we’re seeing – and we’ll see it a little bit later, probably in the next chapter – but Molly is being really intentional about trying to keep information from Harry. So I think this is pretty in character for her, because she is very strongly against the idea of people who are underage participating in these activities, and she views Harry as a son, so she’s trying to protect him in the only way she knows how. So I think that her intentions are good, right? But it does have this unintended effect of just pissing Harry off more. And I do think in this moment, he wants to yell at Ron and Hermione more than anyone else.
[Eric laughs]
Laura: So I think he’s pretty quick to go up and see them when he finds out where they are.
Eric: But the other members of the Order would definitely use this about Molly for their advantage. There’s a reason they sent her to go and usher him away; it’s because she wouldn’t tell him anything. Even if she has his best interests at heart, Dumbledore totally is hiding behind that. He’s totally hiding behind everyone wanting what’s best for Harry so he can make some kind of vague claim that this is best for Harry, and then they all shut up. We see it with what Hermione says, and Ron says Hermione apparently went to Dumbledore and was like, “Hey, you know Harry is going to do something crazy if he’s kept up in Privet Drive without any kind of explanation,” and Dumbledore is like, “Yeah, don’t worry about it. We’re doing what’s best.”
Andrew: He’s going to blow.
Eric: He’s going to blow!
Andrew: Get him out of there before he explodes.
Eric: Hermione has a Doppler warning radar on her. Because Hermione and Ron, these people that Harry is taking it out on in this chapter, know him best, and Hermione, damn it, was right that Harry was just going to blow, but he’s blowing at the wrong people.
Andrew: Yeah, and so let’s start talking about that. So he reunites with Ron and Hermione, and Hermione, one of the things she asks is, “Have you been furious with us?”
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Andrew: And things at first start off okay; Harry isn’t getting angry until he hears that Dumbledore has been blocking information from getting to him because “it was best,” and Ron and Hermione don’t assuage Harry’s concerns here.
Eric: It’s true. I just think even though things seem to start off fine internally, we get insight into Harry internally, and it is not nice. As soon as he’s with Hermione and Ron again, J.K. Rowling writes that he wishes he were somewhere else, or wishes that he were alone with his thoughts. It’s like, come on, dude. You spent the whole summer being alone; now your best friends – Hermione just tackled you with this hug – and you immediately want to be without their presence because he’s all moody about being left out in the dirt. I’m like, this is ugly.
Andrew: Well, yeah, I think he’s depressed, and he just wants to reflect on everything again. He wants to sit there and chew on it by himself. So then we get all caps Harry; this is the first time that this has happened, where J.K. Rowling is writing Harry’s lines in all caps.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: It’s been a running joke in the fandom ever since. And boy, is Harry angry. And I haven’t read this book in a while, and reading this again, and just seeing how much, [laughs] how many all caps moments there are is pretty funny. I was wondering how everybody pictures this in their head when reading. I’m picturing it like… [in a low, loud, aggressive voice] “SO YOU HAVEN’T BEEN IN THE MEETINGS, BIG DEAL! YOU’VE STILL BEEN HERE, HAVEN’T YOU? YOU’VE STILL BEEN TOGETHER! ME, I’VE BEEN STUCK AT THE DURSLEYS’ FOR A MONTH! AND I’VE HANDLED MORE THAN YOU TWO’VE EVER MANAGED AND DUMBLEDORE KNOWS IT…” [laughs]
Laura: So wait, Harry is Batman now?
[Everyone laughs]
Micah: I was going to say the lead singer of Pantera or something.
Eric: Oh, there you go. Well, the funny thing for me is that she has Caps Lock Harry screaming at his friends who don’t deserve it about all these things that are fueling his own ego, like “I managed more than you two ever…” complete disregard for their helping him to get to the Stone and all that good stuff, but then at the end of the chapter when they have this irreplaceable, Permanent Sticking Charm Walburga Black shouting, “Blood traders, filth, filth of my flesh, scorn!”, it’s lowercased and in italics. So Harry, this 15-year-old boy, is shouting, essentially, what reads as louder than the portrait of Mrs. Black that everyone’s on pins and needles, tip tiptoeing around. So that’s what I found funny, is once you go caps, you can’t go any lower. Mrs. Black, canonically, is not as loud as Harry was in this moment, and that’s just nuts.
Andrew: That’s how angry Harry is.
Eric: Yeah, exactly.
Micah: But haven’t we all been in a situation like this before? I think Harry is just so pent up with anger and rage, and it’s just been stewing inside of him for so long, and he’s taking it out on the people who are closest to him, which I think is something we’ve probably all done in our own lives, where maybe it’s not even that person’s fault, but it’s because they’re so close to us that we’re looking to them for support and for assistance, but yet, maybe they don’t even know that we’re in need of it, or there was nothing that they could do at the time to assist. Much like Ron and Hermione here; they’re being given direction from an adult – not that they do a good job of listening to adults throughout the course of the series – but in this case, they’re being told from Dumbledore. I’m sure Ron is being told from his parents that they just can’t communicate with Harry at this time, and now it’s all finally bubbling up to the surface.
Laura: Yeah, and also, I wanted to touch on the mental health side of this discussion, because for people who are suffering from anxiety, depression, things like that, these kinds of outbursts are not unheard of. You get to a point where you reach a boiling point, and oftentimes when you have that break where you start shouting or you get really irritated with people, it’s not totally out of anger. I mean, anger is part of it – it’s definitely at the core of it – but a lot of it can be linked to anxiety about the situation, and for a lot of people, their reaction to that can be really visceral and seem like they’re just pissed off, but that’s not generally all that’s going on. At least in my experience, I’ve suffered from anxiety for a very long time, so I can definitely relate to this.
Andrew: Well, one of the key problems for Harry here is the fact that he had nobody to speak to. When you’re having issues and you need to get something off your chest, if you let that stuff boil, it just gets really stinking hot, and then you do have an outburst like this. But what made this so bad for Harry was that he could tell nobody, even if he wanted to let it out in a calm manner.
Eric: Yeah, absolutely, and I go back to William’s email at the beginning, where he said Harry probably has PTSD and needs a lot of therapy. This all comes down to Dumbledore in the end and how Dumbledore is treating Harry. We know from the end of the book that the reason Dumbledore is not telling Harry things is because he’s grown wary of the connection that the scar allows Voldemort insight into Harry’s mind, but Harry is still at Grimmauld Place. He’s still at the headquarters of the Order of the Phoenix, reluctantly, because of the magic that was used, which we’ll get at in a moment. But Dumbledore should have appointed somebody that he trusted to come and talk to Harry, or Dumbledore himself should have come. But if there’s this Voldemort connection, fine, but give Harry a therapist. Give Harry somebody, a connection to the wizarding world, so that he’s not completely isolated, because Harry has a point. All caps Harry has just been through a lot of stuff, and has just faced Voldemort for one more time and barely escaped, and Cedric died. There is no universe in which Harry would not be suffering viscerally from this, and so it’s a failure of Dumbledore to not put somebody on the case to go and talk with the Dursleys. Manage it out. Come once a month or once every two weeks, and just like any other therapist in the world, talk to you. Listen to you.
Andrew: Right.
Eric: Listen to what Harry has to say, and I think that would have solved them a world of Harry’s hurt.
Micah: You could argue…
Laura: But Dumbledore, he’s trying to avoid Harry, right? Because…
Eric: Directly, yeah.
Laura: Do they have therapists in the wizarding world? Is this a thing?
Eric: Well, I was looking at the… I doubt it, to be honest. But I was looking at the Advance Guard, and Elphias Doge would be perfect for this. Here’s a man who has known Dumbledore since they were children, idolized Dumbledore, but been burned by Dumbledore, much like Harry is being right now, and Elphias Doge would be the perfect person to sympathize and commiserate with Harry. Here’s a guy who is presumably free on evenings, because he can come and do the Advance Guard. Get him to talk to Harry! This should have totally been what happened.
Andrew: It doesn’t even need to be a therapist, just somebody he can sit down and talk with for a while. Could have been Mrs. Figg.
Micah: Right, because all he has now is Hedwig; that’s who he’s trying to at least talk to. And I would argue that in many ways, this is child abuse, child neglect, on the part of Dumbledore. This further shows the flaws in his character, and that as we go through the series and we look at it differently, that Dumbledore doesn’t hold up to the same standard, I think, the first few times that I read the books.
Laura: Yeah, it is really interesting, because even though he has put Grindelwald and the Deathly Hallows behind him, he still clings to this “For the greater good” mentality quite a bit throughout the series.
Andrew: So Harry, like we’ve said, is reminding… Brooklyn, stop.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: Brooklyn is digging behind me. Harry reminds Ron and Hermione of all the things he’s done for the wizarding world over the past few years, and he gets a little egotistical, but he’s earned it. He’s also livid over the fact that everyone knew he was being tailed. [laughs] I mean, that would definitely annoy me most of all. I’m not in on anything, and somebody has been watching me and I didn’t even know it. We wanted to also speak about the timing of Harry letting his rage out. Should he have just tried to hold it in a little longer to take it out on maybe Dumbledore or Sirius or Remus? Poor Ron and Hermione. They’re not to blame at all here, and yet they faced the brunt of it.
Eric: The cutting line for me – to use a word – is that he sees the cuts on their fingertips, and J.K. Rowling notes that Harry feels not at all sorry for it. So there is sort of a sadistic side to Harry that relishes their pain because it makes him feel something, anything, and that is very clearly like PTSD, emotional compromise, weird stuff, but he wants to be shouting at Hermione and Ron.
Micah: Right. He at least feels as if they’ve now taken on some of what he has been feeling over the course of these last two months, right? When he sees the actual effects of what Hedwig has been doing to their hands, it’s almost like a moment for him where he’s saying to himself, “Good, now maybe they have a sense of what I’ve been going through.” Even if it’s very, very small, but still, at the same time, it’s physical damage that’s been inflicted upon his two closest friends, and again, I fault Dumbledore here. Dumbledore is putting Ron and Hermione at the front lines of Harry’s anger, and that’s not fair to do to two kids.
Eric: Right.
Andrew: No, it’s a great point.
Laura: That’s okay; Harry is going to learn his lesson when he gets his own hand wounds later in the book.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Eric: Will he? Is that what makes him say, “Man, I’ve been a jerk to Hermione and Ron”? I wish.
Laura: Do we ever get that acknowledgement from him?
Eric: Later when he founds Dumbledore’s Army, I think he turns a corner and is suddenly a little bit more appreciative of them. But no, I think it’s not until after Sirius’s death and they come together at the Ministry that Harry seems to have any kind of… I don’t know; it’s like having professional respect versus actual friendship. I think by the time they’re all joining up at the Ministry at the end, it’s something to watch, because I don’t know that Harry ever gets back to friendship in this book. I think it’s all just like this; he needs them to achieve what he’s trying to do. I don’t know that there’s a tender moment. I don’t know that somebody as emotionally compromised as Harry can offer that kind of love that Dumbledore always talks about him having for people in this book because Dumbledore has just misabused him so much.
Andrew: So Harry now learns about the Order of the Phoenix. We learn about it as well, and we understand the title of the book pretty early, so that was nice.
Eric: Yeah, that’s cool.
Andrew: We also hear that “It’s a secret society. Dumbledore’s in charge, he founded it. It’s the people who fought against You-Know-Who last time.” I thought that was an interesting line to bring up because in Crimes of Grindelwald, we do see this book with the phoenix on the cover, and we have speculated on the show that perhaps the Order of the Phoenix actually goes way further back than we realized. Maybe I’m forgetting who said this in the book; I apologize. Was it Hermione? Maybe that’s all Hermione knows; she doesn’t know any more about the Order of the Phoenix.
Eric: Right.
Andrew: But I think this quote is important to keep in mind as we follow the Fantastic Beasts film series, because on the face of this quote, it sounds like the Order of the Phoenix truly started the first time Voldemort was around.
Eric: Good point. And jury’s out on whether or not it’ll have a different name when they’re fighting Grindelwald with it, but clearly the purposes of the other… gosh, what’s the name of the teacher? Eulalie Hicks, Professor Hicks and Nicolas Flamel all having that book that they use to communicate with one another is very much pre-Order or early Order.
Andrew: Yeah, yeah. And maybe… we know Dumbledore has always liked phoenixes; they run in his family. So maybe it’s just another reference to the phoenix love, or maybe it’s the origins of the Order of the Phoenix. J.K. Rowling wants to do something there; we’ll see.
Eric: Or maybe Credence turns back to the good side and names the Order of the Phoenix. That’d be a cool contribution.
Andrew: So Extendable Ears are also introduced in this chapter, and they’ve been using them to try and spy on Order meetings, although there have been some attempts by Molly to block the Extendable Ears from working. As kids… well, as a kid myself, I used to love spying on my parents, so I wish that Extendable Ears were in existence in the Muggle world. Anybody else like to spy when they were a kid?
[Eric laughs]
Laura: Oh, totally.
Andrew: Or maybe even today, still?
Laura: Not today…
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: … but definitely as a kid, especially if I thought there was a conversation about something that directly impacted me, I would want to hear it, so I would definitely spy in those cases.
Andrew: I have to say, there is a modern version of Extendable Ears. This is a little known fact about AirPods: Apple’s AirPods have a feature where you can place one somewhere else and use it as a microphone and hear it through the other AirPod, so you could just…
Eric: Wait, what?
Laura: What?!
Andrew: Yep, yep. It’s actually for people who have hearing disabilities, but of course, anybody can use it. It’s within control center of iOS. I just tested it the other day to prepare for this discussion.
Eric: I’ve got to do this. This is amazing.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Although, the range of my… I have AirPods gen one, I think – not the ones that have the wireless charging – and their range is like, 10 feet. It’s not far.
Andrew: Okay, yeah. I don’t know what… they should go further than that, but I don’t know how it works, how far apart the two AirPods can be.
Micah: I can walk around my house for the most part with my AirPods, and it works.
Eric: My apartment when I go…
Micah: Computer’s on another level?
Eric: Yeah, no, same level, but when I go through a wall, it just doesn’t travel. I don’t know.
Andrew: Well, try spying on some people later today.
Micah: Somebody should put one in the Oval Office.
[Everyone laughs]
Laura: Micah, I’m glad you made the first reference.
Micah: Well, more will be coming, people. Prepare yourself.
Eric: Get ready.
Andrew: Well, we also learn that there’s… so Harry now is in kind of catch-up mode, learning about what’s going on now that he’s let all the poison out.
Micah: Speaking of government…
Andrew: [laughs] And he finds out that there’s been a rupture between Percy and the rest of the Weasley family. Percy had a big fight with Arthur because Dad suggested that Percy was only recently promoted so Fudge would have a connection to somebody who knows someone who’s in with Dumbledore, and of course, Percy wasn’t pleased by that, and Molly is really upset over it. Every time Percy’s name is brought up, she gets upset. It’s actually really sad to read, especially with everything that’s going on right now in the wizarding world, to have this drama going on in the family. It just makes it all the worse. I wonder, was Arthur out of line saying this to his son? His son just got a promotion, and Arthur downplays it by saying, “Fudge only did that so he could have a connection to me and Dumbledore.”
Eric: Well, first of all, I don’t think he said it that way, right? We know Arthur. We know Arthur. I think Arthur would speak a little bit more cautiously and be like, “Well, son, I have a concern, and the concern is that they know we’re close with Dumbledore, and they might use you to spy on me,” and then Percy in his fit of ego would then say, “Oh, you don’t think I earned this? I’m always cleaning up after your reputation,” all the rest of the stuff. I think Arthur would not have made such a grievous mistake of saying flat out, “Oh, well, you know this is a lie, right? They’re just using you.” I think Arthur would have been a lot more cautious, but the end result would have been the same. I think it was Percy’s ego that made him see whatever Arthur said, which was probably more fatherly, and turn it into this big thing that they had a row about.
Laura: Yeah, and I think also Percy at some deep level is probably aware that there’s some validity here, which would explain why he got so angry about it. I mean, he really screwed up at his last job, right?
Eric: Yes!
Laura: He was working with somebody all year who he should have noticed was not himself, and then suddenly he gets promoted to be Fudge’s assistant when he’s only a year out of Hogwarts? Anybody in any professional sense, I think, would find that very suspect.
Eric: Yeah, and I don’t feel bad for a Ministry…
Laura: So he was probably… yeah, no, me neither. But he was probably feeling that a little bit; he was probably a bit surprised by the promotion, and then when Arthur made this comment, it probably hit a little close to home, is my guess.
Micah: Right, I agree. I also think there could be a level of embarrassment on the part of Arthur that his son has essentially risen to a higher position within the Ministry than him. Though I never really get that sense from Arthur, I’m sure there could be that sense deep down inside. Though I am surprised that he didn’t try and flip it around, when he’s talking about the fact that Percy has only been put in this position to spy upon his family and Dumbledore and the Order, why not say, “Hey, Percy,” or not even tell him, but use Percy’s position to the Order’s advantage? Couldn’t that have been an option?
Eric: Definitely potentially, although I wonder if Dumbledore has more people that are equally in close proximity to the Minister who could watch him.
Micah: I’m sure he does, but it’s very tough, because you’re seeing a fractured family here. Not that Percy was ever really looked upon in a positive light by his brothers or his sister…
Eric: Yeah, even Harry says, “Well, Percy was already my least favorite Weasley.” [laughs] Internally he says that, and it’s kind of nuts. But can we just admire how I think from a plot perspective and a character perspective, it’s a brilliant stroke to have Percy have this falling out? You hate reading about it. This book is so miserable, which is why I don’t even like Book 5 at all; it’s so miserable. There’s so many families breaking up and so many people who can’t be happy. But I think from a writing standpoint, it makes sense that Percy would take this line, and because you have the inner story here with all of Fred and George, Ginny, you get to see all their faces when Harry is being told this information, and you get things like Percy told Arthur he never had any ambition, that that’s why Arthur is so poor is because he’s not an ambitious person, completely twisting this accusation that Percy may be being used by the Ministry and into something… into new heights, essentially. It’s just such a depth of character that you wouldn’t get in two-dimensional writing.
Andrew: Yeah. So Harry also finds out in this chapter that the Daily Prophet, at Fudge’s direction, has been insulting him, making little quips about him wherever they get a chance, like, “Hope somebody hasn’t got a scar on his forehead or we’ll be asked to worship him next,” and Harry hasn’t realized that they’ve been making these little cracks at him because he’s only really been focused on the Daily Prophet‘s front page. He hasn’t been looking deeper into the paper, and the Prophet has been doing this to ruin his reputation so no one else believes that Voldemort is back. They want to paint Harry as this egotistical, crazy guy who doesn’t know what he’s talking about, and this is going to come up a lot over the course of this book. Of course, we’ll get redemption when Fudge says the iconic line: “He’s back!”
[Eric laughs]
Laura: And I think just for a nice connecting the threads moment… I know we’ve alluded to this before, but this is such a contrast to how Fudge treats Harry in Prisoner of Azkaban after Harry performs “illegal” magic, of being like, “Oh, Harry, don’t be silly; we don’t send people to Azkaban for blowing up their aunts.” And in this one, he’s defended himself from a Dementor, and Fudge is directly trying to undermine him, not even just legally, but socially.
Micah: Yeah, it’s literally a direct comparison between Chapter 4 of Prisoner of Azkaban and Chapter 4 of Order of the Phoenix, when we’re talking about Fudge and his treatment towards Harry. So not by coincidence, more connecting the threads, as Laura pointed out. The one other thing I wanted to talk about in this chapter is as it’s wrapping up, the meeting breaks, and we learn that Snape is part of the Order of the Phoenix. And were we at all surprised by this?
Andrew: Yes.
Micah: The kids have a negative reaction, of course, to seeing him there, but we learn that he’s been involved really all summer.
Andrew: I definitely was surprised to see Snape. I still remember feeling angry like Ron and Hermione and Harry, because this is somebody who they have always despised, and now he is amongst their friends. He is in an intimate setting with them outside of Hogwarts. It’s bizarre to see that.
Eric: Yeah, it must be weird. I’m racking my brain trying to figure out back when Book 4 came out, because up until this point, Snape could… knowing what we know now about Snape and his connections to Harry and the prophecy and all this stuff, it makes perfect sense that he’s here, but if you were just reading Book 4 and up until this point, Snape is just that teacher that everyone hates, you would have the reaction that Harry and his friends have, right? You’d just be like, “Oh God, that guy’s here.”
Laura: It’s also just thinking back to Book 3 and remembering that Snape at the end of Book 3 was very much in favor of Sirius getting the Dementor’s Kiss, and now he’s in Sirius’s home? That’s… eurgh, cringe city.
Andrew: Through the looking glass.
Eric: A little too close for comfort.
Micah: He never stays for dinner, though. Remember that.
Laura: That’s right.
Andrew: [laughs] He’s close, but not too close. Not dinner close.
Eric: That’s because he’s a vampire and doesn’t eat.
Andrew: Yeah. I mean, what would Snape do at dinner? That would just be so awkward.
Eric: [laughs] Same thing he does everywhere else; he would just make fun of Sirius and undermine him at every turn.
Micah: To that point, I mean, it’s also a reunion of sorts in this book, and even going back to Lupin in the last chapter, right? We’re being reintroduced to characters that we saw in Prisoner of Azkaban, two very important characters to Harry, one being Lupin and the other being Sirius, and we’ve had a lot of time off from them. I know there was correspondence in Goblet of Fire, but we really didn’t get to spend any time with them, and they’re two characters that I know that a lot of people really, really like. And I think one other thing that’s going to come up throughout the course of our discussions is there was so much concern about finding a place that would be protected from the outside in terms of Grimmauld Place, but there was very little consideration placed on what potentially could be done from the inside. And using a house that belonged to what seemed to be a very Dark wizard, I think there was a big miscalculation done here on the part of Dumbledore.
Andrew: We’re also introduced to Kreacher, who is described as a nutter by Ron. And we also meet, of course, Mrs. Black in the portrait, and the shame of her flesh, Sirius. It’s kind of funny how that all goes down. Of course, Mrs. Black gets woken up, causing a ruckus, and then Sirius runs in to put the curtain back over her, and Sirius says, “Oh, I see you’ve met my mother,” and that closes out the chapter. It’s interesting how Harry learns so much about the house over the course of the chapter – it’s dark, there’s house-elf heads hanging all over, it’s dirty, it’s home of the Order – but he never actually stops to ask, “Wait, so whose house is this?”
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Andrew: But I guess that makes the end all the better.
Eric: Yeah, it works well for the twist. And also, I guess it’s not a natural inclination of his to assume that it’s anybody’s house, right? If you go to a building that’s being used and often described as headquarters, you wouldn’t really expect that anyone lives here, necessarily, or that it’s currently any one of theirs.
Andrew: Umbridge suck count, maybe plus one, because she probably coordinated with the Prophet?
Eric: Yeah, I can see Umbridge really controlling the narrative there, especially because she’s probably the central figure in orchestrating the cover-up that she would take extra pleasure in. Maybe she writes whatever journalist is there a couple times a day with additional zingers like that “Better not have a scar on his head or we’ll be asked to worship him.” Maybe she’s coming up with a lot of those little zingers and sending them off to somebody who’s got influence at the Prophet.
Laura: And I think that we should give an honorary mention here to Rita Skeeter, because Hermione notes that the Prophet really took their cues on dissing Harry from her. So she’s the one who got this narrative started with the Prophet, and then as we got people in the government who were sympathetic to that viewpoint, they were able to expand on that, so Rita Skeeter gets a suck count too.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
MVP of the Week
Andrew: All right, now let’s award our MVPs of the week. I’m going to give it to Sirius’s mother for reuniting Harry and Sirius. I thought that was very nice of her to help.
[Eric laughs]
Micah: I went with the Weasley twins for finally bringing some comedy to this book.
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: Yep. I give it to Harry for giving us the “Previously on Harry Potter” in caps lock.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Laura: It was so great. Normally in these books – because they have to account for people who haven’t necessarily read all of the prior books – you’ll notice that J.K. Rowling does tend to do a quick summary of what happened in the previous book, and in this case, it’s Harry being like, “I SAVED THE SORCERER’S STONE AND I GOT RID OF RIDDLE!”
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Eric: And I gave my MVP of the week to Tonks for staying on brand with her clumsiness, her trademark Tonks clumsiness there, knocking over the troll foot umbrella stand. They could shrink that; they could probably do something about that, but maybe they do after this.
Andrew: I think Eric has a crush on Tonks.
Eric: I do.
Andrew: I knew it.
Eric: I absolutely do. Yeah, I’ll admit that.
Andrew: Nothing wrong with it; just noting it for the record.
Eric: No? Okay.
Rename the Chapter
Andrew: Let’s rename the chapter: Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix Chapter 4, [in a metal voice] “Release the Pain!”
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: Your Pantera voice is great.
Micah: Yeah, it really, really is.
Andrew: I’m in a hotel room. I would be actually screaming, so this is a muted scream. I don’t want to disturb the neighbors.
Micah: Okay. Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix Chapter 4, “What?! I Can’t Hear You.”
Eric: Oh, that’s going to be fun to volume reduce, Micah. Thank you for that.
[Laura laughs]
Micah: You’re welcome.
Laura: I did Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix Chapter 4, “Crooked Cornelius.”
Eric: Pretty malicious what he’s doing to Harry. I called it Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix Chapter 4, “How I Met Your Mother.”
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Micah: I like that one. That’s my favorite one of the week. Sorry, everyone else.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Laura: No, it’s good.
Andrew: [aggressively] IT’S NOT OKAY, MICAH!
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: If you have any feedback about today’s discussion, please email MuggleCast@gmail.com. Send us a voice memo using your phone to MuggleCast@gmail.com, or use our voicemail line, 1-920-3-MUGGLE. That’s a American number; 1-920-368-4453.
Quizzitch
Andrew: Time for Quizzitch.
Eric: That’s right, and last week’s question: To what does Fred Weasley equate the concept of time? This is a brief line that he’s talking to Ron about. He says, “Time is Galleons, little brother,” and that’s what he talks about. So time is money, basically, but wizardified. That’s fun. Correct answers were submitted by Incessant Bookworm; Patronus Seeker; Voldemerica; HallowWolf13; The Jessly Hallows; Dancing in the Rain – and I was going to say MasterCard, but that’s an ad – Marlina; Count Ravioli; and others. We’ll release the full list of everybody thanking them by at replying on our Twitter feed, which is how this game is played. For next week’s question, here’s one: What is the name of Bill Weasley’s unwitting informant into the goblin point of view?
Andrew: Hmm.
Eric: So who does Bill Weasley get his goblin information from?
Andrew: Okay.
Eric: It’s interesting.
Micah: I forgot, too, that there’s a little hint of the fact that him and Fleur are dating.
Andrew: Oh, yeah, not just a hint; it’s pretty clear.
Eric: He’s giving her some private, uh, “Eeen-glish lessons.”
Andrew: Micah and Eric will be at LeakyCon Boston in just a couple of weeks. Micah, what will you guys be up to?
Micah: Yeah, so we’re actually not that far away – as you said, just a couple weeks out – from LeakyCon Boston, October 11-13 at the Seaport Hotel & World Trade Center. And Eric and I will be doing a number of panels together, and then I know Eric has a few other ones that he’s going to be doing as well. But the first one on Friday, October the 11th, “Podcasting with Potter.” This is a bit of a retrospective back on podcasting over the course of the last – for us – 15 years or so, and we’ll be joined by a few others on the stage. October 12, that Saturday, we’re going to be doing Name that Character, which is a challenge between ourselves and Pottercast, so the LeakyMug that everybody has known over the course of the last 15 years will return. It’s been a while since we’ve done one, but we’re looking forward to doing this with Melissa, John, and Frak. Like I mentioned last week, we’re going to have to find a third, so we’ll dig somebody up over there.
Andrew: [laughs] Dig somebody up.
[Eric laughs]
Micah: We’ll take requests; how about that? And on Sunday the 13th, we’ll be doing a live MuggleCast with Chris Rankin, who we spoke a lot about his character, actually, during this episode; he played Percy Weasley in the Potter films. And we’re working on exactly what we’re going to discuss, but it’ll be a lot of fun. All those will be taking place on the main stage throughout the weekend, and I would encourage people to check LeakyCon.com for times, just because that is always subject to change. But really looking forward to it; it’s going to be a lot of fun, and we’re working on the details of our MuggleCast meetup. I would tell people to keep an eye out on our Twitter feeds; we will push out a Google form for people to fill out, similar to what we did for Orlando, but we’re looking forward to meeting a lot of our listeners up there in Boston.
Andrew: Okay.
Eric: Guys, I am so excited; I am seeing Micah the next two weekends.
Andrew: Lucky you.
Eric: I feel #blessed! I know, I know, I know. Before LeakyCon on the 13th, the weekend before is New York Comic-Con, and MuggleNet is doing two events, one on Friday night at 8:00 p.m., and one on Saturday at 8:30 at the Hard Rock Cafe in Times Square. And the Friday panel at New York Comic-Con at the Javits Center and the Saturday event are both called “Into the Pensieve,” and it’s going to be a retrospective celebrating 20 years of MuggleNet history. So I also wanted to mention for our listeners, if you’re thinking of going to New York Comic-Con, or if you’re in the New York area, you can still get tickets over on TicketWeb; the link is on MuggleNet social media to get tickets for Saturday night. It’s going to be a four-hour dance party featuring music from all the years that MuggleNet has been around, so 1999 to today.
Andrew: That’s crazy. Just a couple other reminders: If you use Apple Podcasts to listen to this show, make sure you are subscribed. That’s A. And B, please rate and review us; we would really appreciate that. Or if the podcast app you use has a rating/reviewing feature, we would love if you did it there too. It helps new people discover us. And guess what, y’all? We just found out yesterday, we’re featured in a new list on OprahMagazine.com, the best book podcasts.
Eric: What?!
Laura: Wow!
Andrew: Yeah! Isn’t that crazy?
Laura: Thanks, Oprah.
Andrew: Right?
Micah: Do we get a car?
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Laura: Oh my God, can we get Oprah on the show?
Andrew: Yeah, Oprah, do you read Harry Potter? Please come on. We’ll just pretend Oprah made this list herself; you know she must have clicked through it.
Laura: Right. I mean, she had to at least give it the the O seal of approval, right?
Andrew: [imitating Oprah] I love MuggleCast!
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Laura: It’s okay. I love her.
Andrew: That was pretty cool. Anyway, also be sure to follow us on on social media, @MuggleCast on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram. And finally, we would love your support over on Patreon; if you like what we do, if you would like to see it continue, just head to Patreon.com/MuggleCast and you can continue your MuggleCast journey there, because we have lots of bonus content going up every week. You get early looks at the show, you get ad-free installments of MuggleCast, you get behind-the-scenes looks, you get bonus MuggleCast installments, you get monthly hangouts with us, you get to hop in on the livestreams – lots of benefits – and of course, you get a physical item every year. By the way, Issy, who is listening live, had something funny to say. She said, “New segment for the Order of the Phoenix Chapter by Chapter: Do we think this chapter will have illustrations, or will it not?”
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Andrew: That would be fun.
Micah: I’m going to say yes for Grimmauld Place.
Andrew: So when you join us for our livestreams, you can sound off as we are recording. Thanks, everybody, who’s tuned in on this Saturday morning, by the way, and thank you for listening. That concludes Episode 436. I’m Andrew.
Eric: I’m Eric.
Micah: I’m Micah.
Laura: And I’m Laura.
Andrew: We’ll see everybody next week. Goodbye.
Eric, Laura, and Micah: Bye.