Transcript for MuggleCast Episode #443, Never A Bride (OOTP Chapter 9, Woes of Mrs. Weasley)
Show Intro
[Show music plays]
Andrew Sims: Welcome to MuggleCast, your weekly ride into the Wizarding World. I’m Andrew.
Eric Scull: I’m Eric.
Micah Tannenbaum: I’m Micah.
Laura Tee: And I’m Laura.
Andrew: And on today’s episode, we are discussing Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix Chapter 9, “The Woes of Mrs. Weasley.” I am actually down in Orlando this weekend because I attended a media preview for Universal Orlando Resort’s Christmas festivities. Got to check out the Christmas show at Hogwarts Castle, which is super cool. They do this projection show on the castle, and it’s Christmas-themed, obviously, and they also have some special shows that are going on. The Hogwarts students are performing Christmas songs during the day. Celestina Warbeck is performing Christmas songs during the day.
Micah: Without Eric?
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: Without Eric.
Eric: I love her. She’s great.
Andrew: Yeah, and she has the songs that I was raving about last year. They’re back again this year, like “My Baby Got Me a Hippogriff for Christmas,” which is so good.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Andrew: And there’s another song called “Jingle Spells,” and another song called “Accio Christmas,” which is super catchy. [sings “Accio Christmas”] That, but sung much better.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: It’s a really good time. So it’s running now through Christmas into the new year, I believe. Definitely check it out if you’re in the Orlando area or you’re thinking of getting a break from the colder weather elsewhere in the country or around the world. Universal Orlando Resort has a ton of stuff, and just Hogsmeade and Diagon Alley is decked out in Christmas decorations.
Eric: Can I just say what a welcome change that is from…? The first couple years, they weren’t able to do that in the park. It was like… we kept asking, “Well, Christmas is such a big deal in Harry Potter; why isn’t there anything in the park?” Even putting a wreath on the front door of Honeydukes was a rights issue. They just had to clear it with all the lawyers and stuff. So going from absolutely nothing to a nighttime castle experience and Celestina Warbeck singing the songs and the Hogwarts choir, I’m thrilled with how far we’ve come, just because for Harry Potter, Christmas is a big deal.
Andrew: Yeah, exactly, exactly. And it’s a great reason to visit the theme parks again, because you just want to be surrounded in that environment. I mean, Hogsmeade has snow on it; it’s had snow all over since the beginning, so it’s really been begging to get a Christmas overlay during this time of year. Anyway, thank you, Universal Orlando, and great job. Great job.
Micah: Do they have house-elves? Like Santa has elves?
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: Hermione would not be happy with you, Micah.
Laura: Yeah, that is so rude.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: Why?
Eric: She fixed that problem.
Laura: Speaking of Christmas, I was really excited about this: My mom came to visit me the other day, and she surprised me with a Harry Potter advent calendar.
Andrew: Aww.
Laura: It’s the Christmas in the Wizarding World advent calendar, and it looks really cool. Obviously, have not opened it yet, but starting December 1, I’ll start collecting these gifts. It comes with 24 gifts in the calendar.
Andrew: Whoa!
Laura: Yeah, and it’s got things like socks, pencils, pens, crests for the Houses, bracelets, and things like that. I don’t want to read off the full list of gifts because I don’t want to spoil people who might want to buy it, but it comes with a lot of stuff, and it is super cool. I think a cool thing for any super Harry Potter fan this December.
Andrew: Yeah. Speaking of gifts, next week I think we’re going to do a kind of Harry Potter gift guide for everybody to learn what’s hot this year, learn about some of our old favorite Harry Potter products, just to give you some ideas for what to buy the Harry Potter fan in your life, or maybe something to ask for this holiday season, so stay tuned for that.
Chapter by Chapter: Seven-Word Summary
Andrew: Okay, so we are going to jump straight into Chapter by Chapter. Like I said, we are discussing Order of the Phoenix Chapter 9, “The Woes of Mrs. Weasley,” and let’s do our seven-word summary. Harry…
Eric: … feels…
Laura: Ooh, I don’t know which way to take this. There’s a couple of directions.
Andrew: A lot happens in this chapter.
Laura: Yeah, it does. I’m going to go with Harry feels envious…
Micah: … because…
Andrew: … friends…
Eric: … are…
Laura: … winning!
[Laura and Micah laugh]
Andrew: I was hoping you would make up a new word, like “prefected.”
Eric: Or “prefects,” is what I was going for.
Laura: Oh, got you.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: I thought I was making it easy. He feels envious because friends are prefects. Winning works. Winning works well.
Micah: Winning at life.
Andrew: Having the first word is always the easiest, because you can always start with…
Laura: “Harry.”
Andrew: Always.
Laura: Yeah, every time.
Eric: [laughs] We should make that a rule that you can’t.
Andrew: Oh, that’s a good idea. Maybe.
Micah: You can’t use “Harry” at all, or just in that…?
Andrew: Just the first word.
Laura: I think just the first word.
Eric: Probably the first word, yeah.
Micah: Okay, that makes sense.
Eric: We’ve got 29 chapters to go.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: That’s it?
Eric: Yeah, there’s 38 in the book or something.
Chapter by Chapter: Main Discussion
Micah: So last that we left, Harry has been innocent – or proven innocent, I should say – of his crimes of casting a Patronus Charm in order to save both him and his cousin’s life. But as everyone is exiting the courtroom, it’s noted a couple of times that Umbridge is said to be appraising Harry, and I think it happens when he’s still sitting in the chair, and then it happens just as he’s standing by the door and all of the different people who are in the courtroom are leaving, and I’m wondering exactly what she’s appraising him for.
Eric: I feel like it’s like, “Ooh, Mr. Potter, a formidable enemy; I will up my game next time,” kind of a challenge.
Andrew: Is she wondering, “Is he legitimately crazy? Is the media right about this?” Because in this trial, I think we’re in agreement that Fudge and the Ministry – maybe Fudge and Umbridge – decided during that trial that they need to have somebody in the school. Dumbledore kind of taunted Fudge, and now Umbridge might be sizing him up, wondering, “Can I take on this brat at school? Or is he actually crazy? Or did he actually see the Dark Lord? Is he telling the truth?”
Eric: It’s such hypocrisy, because she took direct action against Harry. She’s the one that sent the Dementors to Little Whinging, so I just feel like this whole appraisal thing is very adversarial, and it’s very like, “You don’t know this, but I will get you next, boy.”
Micah: “I will scar you for life,” right?
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: Literally.
Micah: The only other scar that he has on his body is the lightning bolt scar, and she provides the second one. I mean, I’m sure there’s others he picks up throughout his life…
[Eric laughs]
Micah: … but the ones that we know about. Yeah, I agree. I think it’s almost she’s measuring him up and saying, “Okay, you’ve essentially won rounds one and two because you defeated the Dementors, and now you won here in the courtroom, but I’m almost going to find a way to get back at you.”
Eric: Yeah, it’s like if Slughorn’s goal is to collect people, Umbridge’s is to subjugate them. Make them bow to her and make them just be under her control and authority.
Micah: And to your point, he doesn’t know who she is, and we as readers don’t know really much about her, or the fact that she’s going to become the Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher.
Andrew: Right.
Micah: So it’s very much Rowling laying the groundwork for what’s to come throughout the course of this book, that these two are going to be at odds for the rest of the year.
Andrew: Yeah. All she is right now to Harry is a toad.
Eric: [laughs] Yeah, lots of toad-like references regarding Umbridge. Not sure what that’s about.
Andrew: Just that she looks like a toad.
Eric: Rowling does have sort of a problem of ugly characters being evil, good-looking characters being good. I think this is probably another example of that.
Andrew: Calling Umbridge a toad is an insult to toads everywhere.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: What did toads do to J.K. Rowling? Did they haunt her as a child?
Eric: Maybe.
Andrew: Jump on top of her head?
Micah: Possibly.
Eric: You know what it was? I wasn’t going to bring it up, but I remember early on, one of the theories that I heard after Book 5 came out was that Umbridge was actually Peter Pettigrew’s mother. And the reason that I love this theory to death, but also what it’s based on, is she was always described as having short, stubby fingers, and the toad appearance actually, believe it or not, I think has a connection. It’s like there’s a line in Book 3 when Peter Pettigrew is being described that’s almost spot on the same descriptor for Umbridge that Rowling uses for Umbridge in Book 5. And I always thought it would provide a key to motivation for Umbridge to have acted this way against Harry Potter, like something to do with revenge for her son or something like that, and the reason I love that it would work was because Pettigrew’s mother is mentioned in Prisoner of Azkaban, this book’s mirror book. And not by name, but it’s said that they shipped his mother his finger, which was all that was left of him. So I just thought it would be a cool connection if she was revealed to be Pettigrew’s mother. Do you guys like that?
Laura: I feel like it’s a really cool alternate consideration, and I think it would certainly fit. I also really like the interpretation that we ended up with, which is just she’s a corrupt government bureaucrat who doesn’t want anybody spoiling their narrative. But yeah, I think…
Eric: Yeah, it’s much more terrifying.
Laura: Yeah, but I mean, I think that this alternate possibility would certainly be a cool one.
Micah: That’s definitely an interesting theory. I don’t remember hearing it, but it would certainly have merit without much else being available to us. And who knows? Maybe she is. J.K. Rowling never confirmed nor denied that.
Eric: I guess that’s fair.
Andrew: She’s not. That theory came about because it’s two evil people. I think it’s a lazy theory.
[Eric laughs]
Micah: So Harry ends up with a immense sense of relief, as would be expected. And somebody put the question in here, “When have we experienced this type of relief?” And yeah, I’ve never been before a judge before, so I don’t know that I’ve experienced exactly what Harry went through, but…
Andrew: Way to brag, Micah.
[Eric laughs]
Micah: Well, I think anytime you do a big presentation or anything that I think builds up anxiety for you, and then once it’s over, you have a really big sense of relief.
Andrew: Yes. Yeah, exactly. And I love what J.K. Rowling wrote here about Harry is suddenly so interested in Arthur fixing the toilet, and he says later even Kreacher looked less ugly, which is really funny. Harry is just so relieved here, and it’s really nice to see because I think as readers, even maybe as young readers, when we’re stressed out about a big test or some awkward social experience, or a big dance, the big high school dance coming up, we’re like, “Oh my God, I can’t see past this event. This is the worst ever.” And then we get past it, and it’s like, “Oh, everything’s okay after all.” It’s like me after a flight, actually. I get a little nervous when I fly, and then walking through the airport after the flight, I’m on top of the world. I didn’t die! Woohoo!
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Eric: Yeah, it’s definitely… I mean, we stated a couple episodes ago that we’ve all been in front of a judge, except for Micah. But yeah, it’s a stressful situation. But the resolution, the aftermath, is pretty much exactly how Jo describes. The air tastes sweet. It’s crazy.
Micah: And I like, Andrew, how you paired “relief” and “toilet” in the same bullet here.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Micah: I wasn’t sure exactly what you were going for.
Andrew: That wasn’t my intention, but that’s what… J.K. Rowling did that; I didn’t do that.
Eric: [laughs] But yeah, Harry is really interested in, “Oh, what’s the resolution?” These are questions he wouldn’t have asked moments before, when all he could think about was being expelled. So it’s wonderful to see our boy a little less stressed for about the next five minutes.
Micah: Right, it’s very short-lived, his moment of exhilaration, because not long after that, he runs into Lucius Malfoy and Fudge, who are having a side conversation. And can’t imagine what it’s like for him to come up against Malfoy, who not that long ago he was face to face with in the graveyard as a Death Eater, and yet here he stands talking to – whether we like it or not – the most powerful person, from a government standpoint, in the wizarding world, and that can’t be a good thing.
Eric: Right.
Laura: No, it’s certainly not, because Harry notices the jingle of gold in Lucius’s robes.
Micah: What could that mean?
Eric: Oh, I bet Lucius is always carrying a bunch of coins in his pockets to brag about his wealth.
Laura: Yeah, but he seems to make a point about rustling them a bit as soon as Harry and Arthur walk up.
Andrew: He wants to remind Arthur that he’s loaded and Arthur is not. [laughs]
Laura: Right.
Micah: That’s exactly what I was going to say, yeah, it’s almost a little bit of a dig at Arthur. But I think Harry is very astute here, because he asks the question that I think we as readers are asking ourselves, given this conversation; that is, could Fudge be under the Imperius Curse? And I think, personally, that it’s even worse that the Order believes that he’s acting of his own accord.
Laura: Oh, yeah. That’s terrifying.
Eric: But it is something that Dumbledore himself has kind of ruled out for the moment. I think Arthur has to say that Dumbledore believes he’s acting of his own accord, and I’m like, well, if Dumbledore believes, then okay. Couldn’t spot a Polyjuice Potion when it was right in front of him for an entire year, but probably could spot an Imperius Curse.
Laura: It does make me wonder, though, why wouldn’t the Death Eaters just go ahead and put Fudge under the Imperius Curse?
Andrew: Yeah. Well, maybe they’ve had some discussions with him, and they feel confident that he’s going to be on their side in some ways. Enough.
Micah: I think it’s sadly also because he doesn’t need to be put under the Imperius Curse.
Andrew: Right, exactly.
Eric: [laughs] He’ll play into their hands.
Laura: Right, no, I get that. It just seems like you could give yourself a little bit of insurance.
Andrew: Yeah, but that would be wrong, Laura, and they don’t do anything like that.
Laura: [laughs] Right, that’s true.
Eric: I wonder if it’s also in the aftermath of Barty Crouch, Sr. and that whole debacle, whether or not they’d be able to spot someone very close to the office being under an Imperius Curse. I feel like the Ministry hasn’t yet been infiltrated enough to really pull off the Minister for Magic himself getting Imperiused. I feel like there’d be slip-ups and accidents.
Andrew and Micah: Yeah.
Micah: I think the denial aspect of it is just playing right into the Death Eaters and Voldemort’s hand at this point, so as long as Fudge is willing to deny the fact that Voldemort has returned, then it allows Voldemort to work behind the scenes without really any pressure whatsoever, aside from what the Order may be doing, right? You don’t have the full force of the Ministry that’s out looking for him, so it’s actually of huge benefit to him, and it doesn’t seem like Fudge needs to be Imperiused in order to believe that. So it is kind of disappointing that that’s who we’re dealing with, and it is kind of scary, though, too, right? That very early on in this book, you have Lucius and Fudge talking to each other. This is another layer of problems for Harry and for the Order.
Eric: It really is. I mean, Harry immediately goes, “Oh, God, the last I’ve seen these eyes was in the graveyard facing off against Voldemort, and these eyes were behind a Death Eater mask.” Nothing could be more powerful than that connection Harry makes, in terms of as the reader, you’re like, “Wow, this guy’s a Nazi,” and you’re seeing him with a pocket of gold looking to bribe basically the president. It’s nuts. It’s terrifying. And Harry, I think, has an appropriate reaction and reacts with skepticism, and I mean, I guess Arthur can only say the Order is taking care of it.
Micah: What did we all make of the the snake comparison? Lucius makes reference to Harry escaping like a snake slithering away.
Eric: I don’t know what he’s getting at.
Micah: Was that supposed to…? It wouldn’t necessarily be foreshadowing of Nagini and her involvement, but I just wondered about that. It was very specific.
Andrew: Calling somebody a snake is an insult. He’s just saying that he’s a sneaky little brat and implying that he won’t continue getting away with it, and he’s calling Harry a bad person.
Eric: Yeah. What I do love, though, is it is sort of classic. You know in Movie 2 when Lucius and Arthur are in the same scene, and they trade banter, they trade insults, and it’s just so… it’s not friendly at all, but they’re still keeping it together because of other people being there. This scene in the book where Malfoy says to Arthur, “Don’t you do something that involves sneaking Muggle artifacts home and bewitching them? Shouldn’t you be on floor two doing that?” is just, I think, a perfect jab. I genuinely laughed out loud. There’s so few moments where I laugh out loud while reading Book 5, but this is absolutely one of them. I’m like, “You know what? Arthur did do that. He did get in trouble with the Ministry for doing that.” If you’re going to take your colleague down, if you’re going to, I don’t know, insult them, at least it’s for something that he did do. [laughs]
Andrew: But he’s also doing this in front of a child. It’s just wildly inappropriate and sets a bad example. Not that he’s ever a good example, but it just speaks to how much of a you-know-what he is.
Laura: Right, well, as Eric pointed out, this guy’s a wizard Nazi, so I think his moral compass might be a bit different from our own.
Andrew: So a couple of chapters ago, Harry, as he’s walking into the Ministry, says, “If I get out of this and I still get to go back to Hogwarts, I’m going to throw some coins in that fountain.” So J.K. Rowling didn’t forget that she wrote that, so Harry does end up throwing coins into the fountain, but I’m wondering where that money goes. I doubt the Ministry… typically with fountains, when we see those, yeah, it’s fun to throw in a coin, and sometimes those coins will be collected and given to charity. Or if it’s at a theme park, you throw money in, but they’re not donating that to charity. [laughs] The Ministry is probably not donating those coins to charity; it probably goes towards padding their pockets, so Harry is, in a way, tipping the Ministry for putting him through this.
Micah: From the sound of it, Lucius goes digging in there at night and it’s in his pocket to intimidate people.
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: Yeah, so he just gave a wizard Nazi a few coins.
Eric: I think the… doesn’t the inscription on the statue say that proceeds will go to St. Mungo’s?
Laura and Micah: Yes.
Andrew: Oh, okay.
Eric: So they’re going there. But there’s a huge question about St. Mungo’s, whether or not they, for instance, get paid to keep people sick, because the award that we end up seeing later in this book… and this is just something for later. Food for thought is whether or not people really don’t get better. How long has Gilderoy Lockhart been in there? How long have Frank and Alice Longbottom been in there? I think there’s questionable morals surrounding St. Mungo’s, maybe not overtly in the book, but there’s stuff in fandom we could talk about at some later time that explained that, yeah, maybe St. Mungo’s isn’t the best place, so maybe there is something, Andrew, to what you’re saying about Harry working in a way that is defeating him just by doing the innocent act of throwing some coins in a fountain.
Andrew: Potentially commentary on what happens in the real world as well. Because there’s these crackpot theories out there that we could cure cancer, but we don’t, because we’ll make more money continuing to treat people who have cancer.
Eric: That’s true.
Andrew: And it’s same thing with dental work or anything else. There’s got to be ways to fix these things now, instead of having to continue to pay for them.
Laura: Well, and there are certainly cases where there’s no ambiguity there, like the fact that antiviral medications for HIV exist, and somehow the parts of the world where this virus is the most rampant have the hardest time getting these medications.
Eric: Yep.
Andrew: Or why does my cold medicine only work for four hours?
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Andrew: That’s at the forefront of my mind because I have a cold this week.
Micah: Yeah, make one that lasts for 24, right? Come on.
Andrew: Yeah, come on, where’s my all day relief? Where’s my all week relief?
Eric: Well, Harry doesn’t even… I mean, Harry promised he’d throw ten Galleons in. He throws his whole bag of money in. While they’re in London, does…?
Andrew: He’s so happy, that’s why.
Eric: Yeah, but does he have to go to Gringotts now and get more money out?
Andrew: [laughs] How does that work?
Laura: This is such a 1% problem. He’s like, “Oh my God, I dumped all my money into the fountain.”
Andrew: No, but where does…?
Laura: “Just going to have to go get more money.”
Andrew: How do you get more money out, though? You’ve got to go to Gringotts every time? That seems pretty inconvenient.
Eric: Given that Sirius Black mail-ordered the Firebolt with some kind of permission for them to withdraw his money without him showing up there, because he’s also wanted by the law, and the fact that the goblins somehow did it, leads me to believe there’s some kind of owl post debit system. So if Harry needs some cash for a Honeydukes weekend, he can write Gringotts and say, “I am Harry Potter. Can I have X amount of money?”
Micah: There’s got to be ATMs somewhere.
Eric: Got to be something like that.
Andrew: Well, if there’s no technology, I don’t… yeah, I guess so. Some equivalent of an ATM, yeah.
Eric: Oh, I’d love a regurgitating ATM. That’d be great.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: So Harry returns to Grimmauld Place and everyone’s celebrating; they’re so happy that Harry has been proven innocent. But there’s this one moment before we get into the party where Harry thinks about Dumbledore, because remember – I think, Andrew, you put it best – you compared it to dating or something like that, where Dumbledore just peaces out.
Andrew: Yeah. “I’ll call you, Harry.”
Micah: “Don’t call me; I’ll call you.” [laughs] So Harry is still thinking about Dumbledore, and in this moment when he’s thinking about the fact that Dumbledore didn’t even bother to look at him, it’s said that as he thought of this, “the scar on his forehead burned so badly that he clapped his hand to it.” And I wondered in this moment, is it Voldemort that’s reacting to thinking about Dumbledore, given that we know this connection exists between him and Harry? Is it the Horcrux that’s within Harry? Or is it just Harry’s pure emotion that he’s so pissed off with how Dumbledore has been treating him that his scar hurts?
Andrew: I don’t think it’s that last one. Maybe…
Laura: I think it’s the Horcrux.
Andrew: Yeah.
Eric: That the Horcrux is having a problem with Dumbledore?
Laura: Yeah.
Eric: Okay.
Laura: Because I mean, the Horcrux and Harry’s mind are sort of sharing some real estate, and by virtue of that, anytime Harry has Dumbledore on the brain, I think the Horcrux is bound to react to that in some way.
Eric: Yeah. I wonder, though, because she is setting up the connection between actual Voldemort and Harry, that I wonder if Harry’s thoughts of Dumbledore didn’t, in fact, translate over the connection to real Voldemort. And maybe real Voldemort is having a good day; it’s a Tuesday, right? He’s got his cup of joe in the morning, but all of a sudden, who pops into his head? Albus Dumbledore, this guy who’s caused him such grief. And then Voldemort, he’s like, “Oh, God, why am I thinking of Dumbledore right now?” And then just reacts in an angry way, and then that anger surges over through the connection back to Harry.
Laura and Micah: Yeah.
Laura: I’m not sure if the connection is that well-established yet, which is what leads me to believe it might be the Horcrux, but this is always possible, too.
Andrew: Maybe Voldemort is just really angry and jealous that Harry gets to go back to Hogwarts.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: Maybe he was really convinced that Harry wasn’t going to win this thing, and now he’s mad that… because Voldemort must miss Hogwarts a little bit.
Eric: Oh, yeah.
Andrew: He tried to get back there to teach, after all.
Micah: I also wonder too, though, at what point did Dumbledore make the decision that he couldn’t interact with Harry? Do we ever find that out? I’m just lost. I don’t understand when he decided all of a sudden, after what happened at the end of year four, that he can no longer make eye contact with Harry.
Eric: It’s a great question, and it’s very valid that you’re confused by it, because it just… the book starts off this way. He just… Dumbledore already knows that this has to happen for things to be “safe,” I guess. He’s playing it safe very early on without any indication of a problem, and maybe Dumbledore through ignoring Harry exacerbates the problem. He’s just not talking to Harry. I don’t know. It strikes me as being something that… the only thing that changed is that Voldemort now has a human body, so maybe Dumbledore knows so much more about the connection, the scar connection. Maybe he’s seen it before with the love pact between he and Grindelwald or something, that when you join… when your souls are that connected or something, that this scar connection cannot help but to happen. That’s my only indication, is that Dumbledore has seen… Dumbledore knew that now Voldemort has a body, this will occur.
Andrew: Could it also be that Dumbledore is just so ashamed of what happened on his watch at the end of Goblet of Fire? That’s something that should never have occurred, Voldemort making this surprise appearance and then coming back to life. He surely feels a lot of guilt for that. That wasn’t part of the plan.
Eric: I would say yes, maybe, if it weren’t for what Dumbledore does in this chapter, which is appointing Ron and Hermione as prefects, which we’ll talk about. But I think Dumbledore has a grand plan to distract and completely ignore… basically put Harry in the corner in this whole year. It’s not an effective plan, but it is his acting plan.
Micah: It almost seems like, because Voldemort is now back in body form, that Dumbledore does everything in his power to distance himself from Harry, because to the point that was raised, this connection now exists, so that wasn’t the case before. Voldemort always existed in some other form; now he is a fully able-bodied individual with snake face or something like that.
Andrew: Yeah. Weren’t we talking about this probably a couple months ago as well? And I think I may have said that Harry would just be nagging Dumbledore nonstop with questions, and some of those questions Dumbledore probably just does not have the answer to.
Micah: But what’s so disappointing, though, is that Dumbledore allows Voldemort to take advantage of the connection, as opposed to vice versa. If Dumbledore knew about this connection, he could have manipulated the situation in his favor, and he chose not to do that.
Eric: Oh, 100%. And furthermore, I mean, this book, Voldemort’s actions have specifically to do with Harry. He’s looking to get the prophecy that was made between Harry and Voldemort, and the Order all knows this. They’re doing nightly guard duty at the Ministry of Magic in the Department of Mysteries to prevent this exact thing from happening. Dumbledore doesn’t think that’s worth telling Harry about? First of all, even the existence of a prophecy. Harry is familiar with the concept; he witnessed Trelawney’s second prediction. But the whole thing is to just not tell Harry about this. This has everything to do with him; Harry has a right to know. And while Dumbledore and Harry are at the Ministry, they could have, just after the court, gone down, listened to the prophecy… or he doesn’t even need to be there; Dumbledore could have just shown him the memory in the Pensieve. So I don’t know. I just… Dumbledore is not taking a straightforward approach with Harry.
Laura: Well, I think that at this point, he’s thinking that the less Harry knows, the better. And he’s kind of right, due to this connection, even if he doesn’t totally understand its existence at this point. I mean, can you imagine if Harry were to hear the prophecy at this point? The thing that Voldemort is so desperately trying to hear?
Andrew and Eric: Yeah.
Micah: Well, one other person that starts to ignore people as well is Sirius, and he pretty much goes into full depression mode after initially being happy that Harry won his court battle. And Hermione, actually, is the one who brings this up and says that Sirius is acting a bit selfish.
Andrew: Absolutely.
Micah: And he thinks that Harry is, in fact, James. And there’s got to be a part of Sirius that wanted Harry to not win his trial so that he would have some company at Grimmauld Place, and I think that’s more of just the part of him that hasn’t matured over time. And he’s lonely, right? We’ve talked about this a lot in the first couple of chapters, but Sirius has been very much isolated, as has been the case for much of his young adult and early adult life, and this just makes it that much worse for him.
Andrew: It’s kind of weird to say this, but a loss for Harry would have been a win for Sirius, and he was really banking on that, because I guess he didn’t have much faith in Harry, which is a little messed up as well. And I feel a little bad for Sirius, but he’ll still be able to write to Harry, and he knows that Harry going back to Hogwarts is probably what’s best for him. I mean, doesn’t he want Harry to have a proper full education? Not that he totally needs it, but he deserves to have a full stay at Hogwarts, and what happened to him in Little Whinging was unjust. So it’s very selfish of Sirius, and it’s hard for me to feel bad for him when Harry deserves this.
Eric: Oh.
Laura: I feel bad for Sirius. I mean, he has been emotionally and psychologically stunted, and it’s not his fault. It’s still frustrating, and you still want the character to get better, and sometimes that requires a little bit of tough love to accomplish. But everything that happened to Sirius that caused him to end up in Azkaban and lose out on his prime years of young adulthood, none of that was his fault.
Eric: And can I just say that I think it’s a little bit unfair from J.K. Rowling, for instance in this chapter, to just have Hermione come in and deliver very matter of factly, “Oh, I think it’s selfish, and he clearly can’t get over thinking that you’re James, Harry.” Why couldn’t Rowling have just… why couldn’t we have heard this from Sirius’s mouth? Harry is not talking to Sirius in the chapter, but Rowling has Hermione come in and basically parrot the same problems that Mrs. Weasley was saying over dinner when they fought, rather than just showing us that Sirius has these problems. She just…
Andrew: Well, what would you want him to do? Slam his fists on the table and be like, “No! I’m mad about this!”
Eric: No, I know in a chapter or two we’re going to get the tapestry, and Harry and Sirius really bond over Sirius’s past. That’s just what I want. I just don’t want other characters talking about Sirius’s mental health when they’re not qualified, 15 years of age, and are just repeating what Molly Weasley so emotively accused Sirius of. Hermione has not independently witnessed Sirius having some of these issues that she’s now saying that he does, and my AIM screen name would not be SiriusBlack423 if I didn’t have a problem with it.
Andrew: Maybe Sirius just has a problem talking about his emotions. That’s normal.
Eric: Quite possibly, yeah.
Micah: Well, let’s just suffice it to say that he’s probably just a tad disappointed that Harry is going to be going back to Hogwarts. But as Hermione brings up, there are people who will be going to Grimmauld Place pretty much on a daily basis, so it’s not as if Sirius is not going to have people to interact with. But I do really believe that there is that strong tie to James, and the fact that Sirius would have loved to have spent more time with James, and he wants to spend more time with Harry, because that’s a natural connection. One other thing that I picked up on, that I thought was a bit funny, was that Harry notes that he’s looking forward to all these different things at Hogwarts coming up now that he’s been vindicated, and he said he’s looking forward to seeing Hagrid, and playing Quidditch, and strolling across the vegetable patches, and I thought it was just a bit ironic because most of these things, if not all of them, are taken away from him at some point during the year.
[Eric laughs]
Laura: Ooh, that’s a good catch.
Micah: Because I don’t even think Hagrid is there right at the start of the term.
Eric: That’s right.
Laura: No, you’re right. He comes back with a steak on his face halfway through the book.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: Oh, yeah.
Eric: And Grawp.
Micah: Right. And Umbridge takes care of Quidditch and strolling amongst the grounds, so yeah, I thought that was funny.
Eric: That is fun. Umbridge really makes Hogwarts not the place that Harry wants to go back to.
Andrew: Maybe when Umbridge was sizing him up, she was reading that from his brain somehow and was like, “I’m going to take away that, and this, and this, and that.”
[Eric laughs]
Micah: And speaking of Umbridge, we don’t know yet that she’s going to be the one who is replacing imposter Moody, but we’ll find that out in the next couple of chapters. But there is a mention of the fact that this position has been a little challenging to fill over the course of the last couple of years.
Eric: Yeah, and we find that out because the school books are coming later, and Ron makes a comment… or Fred and George Apparate in and they make a comment; they’re like, “Yeah, I guess it means that Dumbledore finally found somebody. It’s been so hard what with what happened the last four years.” But this is… it’s George that actually says, “given what happened to the last four teachers,” but Fred and George are two years above Harry and Ron, and presumably, this curse on the Defense Against the Dark Arts position has been in place since the ’80s, so shouldn’t George be saying, “given what happened to the last six teachers”? Just a minor plot hole here, I think, because it would have transpired that the people before Quirrell in Harry’s first year also left.
Andrew: All the characters only talk in language that Harry, Ron, and Hermione will understand, maybe.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: So they need to keep it in the context of their time at Hogwarts. Yeah, that is a little strange. I wonder if Umbridge… she must have known about this curse, right? Somebody should have told her. So was she at all hesitant to take the role? I assume not because she’s probably power hungry, and the idea of getting involved in Hogwarts is probably way too tantalizing to pass up.
Micah: [laughs] Right.
Andrew: But you have to take pause when you look at the history of the previous DADA teachers and ask yourself, “Am I willing to take this risk?” I know I wouldn’t.
Eric: [laughs] She either, to me, strikes me as being somebody who’s like, “Oh, a curse is nonsense,” even when presented with the facts. Because remember, she’s been presented with the fact that Voldemort is back, and she should know that that is true, and she…
Andrew: Yeah, but the DADA teacher, I mean, this is some hard evidence here. They’ve been one after the other. It’s a revolving door. And if she thinks she’s going to stop this curse somehow, she’s out of her mind.
Eric: [laughs] The other angle is that maybe she thinks she’ll just close Hogwarts. Maybe that’s how she’ll get out of an untimely departure. Given what her motives are, maybe she just actively wants to end Hogwarts, and therefore, yeah, she’ll only be in the position one year, because this whole institution – this corrupt, Dumbledoreian order of students and all that stuff – will be ended and over.
Laura: Doesn’t she also a little bit later use the reputations of these various Defense Against the Dark Arts Teachers against them?
Andrew: Probably. “I’m above these people.”
Laura: I feel like she’s talking about them and being like, “Well, look at who Dumbledore employs. He employs werewolves and people who have Voldemort on the back of their head, and you’re surprised they only last for a year? Come on.”
[Eric laughs]
Laura: So I think that she has justified this by thinking, “Well, yeah, these people were not able to sustain their job for any longer than a year because of who they were, not because of a curse.”
Andrew: Right. “Has he ever employed a toad before? I don’t think so. This toad will be fine.”
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Andrew: Would you three become the DADA teacher if Dumbledore asked you in year five?
Laura: No.
Andrew: I wonder if Dumbledore brings up this curse to potential teachers.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: “So this is a cool role, you’ll be helping students defend themselves, a lot of kids love this class, but teachers don’t last more than a year.” “I’m sorry, what’d you say, Dumbledore?” “I said, ‘Hububububuh.'”
Eric: At this point, you feel like he has to be… whether or not Dumbledore is upfront about it and provides that disclaimer, the word has gotten out. That’s why even in Book 3, he’s having trouble getting people and has to get Lupin, but it’s billed as being a one-year appointment. I think at this point, Dumbledore is just like, “Yeah,” even to Alastor Moody, his old Auror friend, “Come help us out, Alastor, just for a year or so.” I feel like he’s leading with it being a short-term appointment.
Micah: Agree.
Andrew: Short-term. “You can leave before you’re cursed out of the role.”
[Eric laughs]
Micah: That’s what I was going to do. I was going to be like, “I’m going to check out in May instead of June, and come back in September.”
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Eric: Pull out the paperwork, yeah.
Andrew: “I’m going to see a witch who’s good at counter-curses, and it’s going to help me break this.” And I like the idea about shutting down the school. Maybe Umbridge was just thinking that she’d be able to shut it down before the curse kicks in.
Micah: So one question that comes to mind though here – and we probably discussed this when we did our Chapter by Chapter of Half-Blood Prince – but does Dumbledore not know with 100% certainty until he sees the series of memories that Tom Riddle, in fact, did curse the position?
Eric: Oh no, he knows, because at this point the timing has just been…
Micah: Well, he’s lost 40 teachers or whatever.
Andrew: [laughs] “Okay, something’s up.”
Eric: I mean, 10 or 15. Absolutely, because it was before the first war kicked up, but he was actively recruiting for the first war to happen. So yeah, it’s been 15/16 years. I think he absolutely does know; he’s just either ignoring it consciously, or what have you.
Andrew: Well, because these potential teachers, when he’s interviewing them, surely they ask, “Why did the last one leave?” I mean, you’ve got to do your due diligence here and ask that type of question. It’s like when you have a job interview here in the real world, and maybe you see that there’s been a lot of turnover at this company. You have to ask yourself, “Why is that? Is there a bad work environment? What’s going on? Is it cursed by an evil wizard?”
Eric: Well, speaking of old theories, though, I always thought it was a possibility that Moody could come back and teach Defense Against the Dark Arts.
Andrew: Oh, yeah. Wasn’t that a popular fan theory?
Eric: I think it was, because technically, he was not the teacher the previous year, so had there been a curse or whatever, he would have gotten a pass, I guess. The forces that be would not have really prevented he himself from teaching. And then the other thing I thought of was… I was trying to explain in my mind why George could say four years instead of six, and I was wondering, well, what if Quirrell actually taught prior to really falling in with Voldemort, and then because it is Voldemort, the curse was sort of lifted to allow Quirrell back briefly? Because that was Voldemort’s connection to Hogwarts.
Micah: Interesting.
Eric: But even that doesn’t account for what would have been their first year.
Andrew: In a way, Moody could have broken the curse, because it wasn’t Moody. He did survive, and yeah, he could have come back. I wonder if Dumbledore said to him, “Hey, do you want to give it a shot for real now?”
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: “Come on in, and you could break the curse.” That may have done it. And it was just a popular fan theory, I think, because fans were really eager to see what real Moody would be like, and it just seemed to make a lot of sense with him being in the Order. Or maybe it was just out of Dumbledore’s control. It had to have been, right?
Micah: Well, I think the only way that you can do it… what’s that?
Andrew: Categorically out of Dumbledore’s control here in Book 5?
Micah: It seemed like it.
Andrew: Yeah, okay, so maybe that’s why Moody couldn’t come back.
Eric: And it’s not like there was an incantation that Voldemort uttered. My question is not whether Dumbledore knows about the curse; my question is whether Voldemort knows about the curse, because it strikes me as being not something you’d utter an incantation for, but something that, through your force of will and energy, that kind of a curse where…
Andrew: Well, he probably knows what’s going on at Hogwarts.
Eric: Yeah, but in terms of enacting that sort of magic, that sort of a curse on the position, whereby a million variables have to be taken into account to enforce your curse, it strikes me as being something that was largely unconscious on Voldemort’s part.
Micah: Well, it seems like the only way that you can return to Hogwarts is if you go from Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher to headmaster, and only Snape was able to do that.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: There we go.
Micah: Along with these lists came a interesting bit of information, especially for Ron, who learns that he has been named prefect along with Hermione. And I just want to say, can Ron have his moment? Everybody is so shocked at the fact that he is named prefect over Harry.
[Eric laughs]
Laura: Yeah, this sucks.
Micah: It’s so terrible. And the list of people is probably a mile long; it’s just anybody who comes in and learns this info… you know what? It’s not even in this room. It’s when they go down to whatever meal they’re about to have, and even Kingsley is like, “I would have thought that Albus made Potter a prefect,” or something to that effect. So poor Ron can’t catch a break.
Andrew: Yeah, it seems like an inappropriate thing to say in front of a child. We always need to keep that in mind.
[Eric laughs]
Laura: But also, you even have Hermione, who makes the terrible mistake running in the room to be like, “Oh, Harry, me too!”
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: And it’s like, “Oh, actually, it’s your love interest.”
Micah: [laughs] Well, shame on J.K. Rowling.
Andrew: Yeah. I mean, in fairness, Harry was holding the badge, so it’s not a stretch to assume…
Micah: Right.
Laura: Oh yeah, no, it’s just so cringy. I had so much secondhand embarrassment throughout reading that thing.
Andrew and Eric: Yeah.
Eric: But I mean, Hermione has to… I love that she has to backtrack a little, but she ends up… I mean, the real enemies of this chapter are Fred and George making fun of Ron, and Hermione manages to defend, or try to. She now has to defend, and she gets all hot and red in the face when she is talking about the good things Ron has done. Yeah, but it is tough. It’s rough for Ron, I think.
Andrew: I also have to say, certain feelings stick with me, feelings I had when reading the book for the first time, and this scene was one of them. Seeing Ron and Hermione become prefects really stuck with me, because I was like, “Oh, wow. We’re now seeing these kids, who we’re growing up with, have real jobs now.” This was their first actual job, and it just felt like, “Wow, this is finally… this is becoming a series for grownups. This is a very adult thing for these kids to finally have jobs.” So I was just really impressed, and I was very pleasantly surprised that J.K. Rowling gave them these positions. Well, Dumbledore gave them.
Eric: And having not grown up in the British school system, I’m not sure. I mean, there are definitely prefects; that is a thing in the school system, but I don’t… I guess, using context from this chapter, it seems like that’s a fast track to be Head Boy/Head Girl. You can’t be Head Boy/Head Girl unless you were prefects. I really just don’t understand how all of it works. But Molly is thrilled, and there’s a great line where she’s like, “That makes everyone in the family!” and Fred and George are just like, “What are we, next door neighbors?”
Andrew: Yeah, that was hilarious.
Eric: I mean, there’s a lot of comedy.
Andrew: Why did Molly say that? I mean, that’s like, really mean.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Eric: And in front of them, no less. It just… so there’s a lot of light-hearted kind of comedy going while we’re just wondering what did Ron and Hermione do to deserve this?
Micah: Right.
Andrew: Well, yeah, so why did Dumbledore pick these two?
Laura: Well, I think why he picked Hermione is pretty clear.
Andrew: Yes, yes. And then Ron?
Micah: Doesn’t Dumbledore…?
Laura: Well, he answers that at the end of the book. [laughs]
Eric: Oh, he does?
Laura: Yes.
Micah: I was going to say that. He does.
Eric: What does he…?
Micah: We can save it. It’ll be a… Laura and I will be spoiled, but you two can…
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: Oh.
Andrew: No, what is…? Well, do we want to talk about it now? Why not?
Micah: Basically, Harry’s got a lot of shit going on, and Dumbledore didn’t want to complicate it, I think is a nice way of putting it.
Eric: Okay.
Laura: Yeah, he literally said, “I thought you had enough to be getting on with.” And I think this kind of sucks for Ron, because it again reinforces this idea of Ron as second best, this fear that he’s always had. And of course, I think Harry would be too kind to ever repeat that to him, but the fact that Ron became a prefect just as a backup option to Harry sucks.
Eric: Always a bridesmaid, never a bride.
Laura: Yeah, exactly!
[Andrew and Micah laugh]
Micah: But hold on a second, because what we tend to do is we don’t look beyond these three, but there are other students that could have been considered for this besides Ron and Harry.
Andrew: Exactly.
Micah: What about Neville?
Andrew: So maybe it would have been fairest to not consider the trio at all. Ron, Hermione, and Harry… yes, of course, to Dumbledore’s point, Harry is very busy; he doesn’t have time with this, which is a perfectly acceptable answer. But Ron and Hermione are actually pretty busy as well, and they’ve had some cool opportunities there at Hogwarts. Do they need this special position? I don’t think so. They’re going to have enough on their resume to do fine in life without prefect as well. Give it to some students who might actually need it.
Eric: That’s true.
Andrew: Neville doesn’t need it either. Killed Nagini. That’s enough for him to get a job anywhere.
Micah: But not yet.
Andrew: Well, I mean, later in life.
Micah: What do you think about the idea, though, just quickly, of Fred and George being jealous of Ron? Do you think there’s any of that going on?
Andrew: Hmm. Do they seem like…? No, because they don’t want to enforce the rules.
Micah: But yet, it’s still an accomplishment. And Mrs. Weasley notes that it’s everyone in the family but the two of them. And I don’t know that they ever had the aspiration to become prefects, and obviously, only one of them could take on that role.
Andrew: Even if they are jealous, I don’t feel bad for them, because they have their shop. They’re already doing well. They’ll be fine.
Laura: Yeah, I think the jealousy point is a good one, but I don’t think it’s because they want to be prefects or they want this kind of recognition or status as having a position of authority. I think it’s more that they… they’re always the type to stick it to the man and buck authority, and they’re more entrepreneurial, as we can see, and unfortunately, it doesn’t seem like their mother values that particular skillset as much as she values being a prefect. So I think the jealousy could come from the fact that they don’t get recognition for what they’re good at, because it’s not necessarily considered the most prime tier item to be proud of in the Weasley household.
Micah: Yeah, I agree with that. And I think also Harry has a moment which we’ve probably all experienced in some way ourselves, where he sees a very good friend – well, two good friends, in this case – get something that he himself didn’t get.
Andrew: Wahh.
Micah: And this is all kind of relieved once Sirius lets Harry know that James was not prefect, and that lessens the blow a little bit, and he starts to be happy for Ron. But what happens, really, is that this is all put into context in a way that is really… the chapter gets very dark very quickly, and Harry has this realization at the end of the chapter that thinking about something like whether or not he was going to be a prefect pales in comparison to what Mrs. Weasley experiences, or what he sees her experience when she goes and tries to get rid of the boggart. But just prior to that, Harry is downstairs; they’re all celebrating Ron and Hermione being named prefects. And Moody is there, and Molly makes a point of going over to him and having him check on whether or not it is, in fact, a boggart that is in the writing desk upstairs, and he does a little quick check with his eye, “Yeah, it’s a boggart,” and this is what I didn’t understand: Molly is the one who agrees to take care of it, as opposed to letting Moody or even some of these other members of the Order – even Lupin, who has been a Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher – go and do it. And I know it sets up the chapter well, but I wonder why she chose to do this on her own.
Andrew: Especially knowing what could potentially come of it, right? Later in the chapter she talks about how she’s been having these dreams and seeing her children die, and it’s like, “Well, then why would you go near the boggart, knowing that?” Before anybody approaches one, they should know what they could potentially be seeing. You should have an idea of that.
Micah: Sure.
Andrew: So yeah, it doesn’t really make sense, other than just setting up the chapter and putting things in perspective for Harry.
Micah: But at the same time, it’s really the first instance where we’ve seen an adult, with the exception of Lupin, and even his is not as impactful as Molly and what she sees in front of her, and so we’ll talk about that. But the other thing that happens just prior to the boggart scene is Moody showing Harry an old picture of the original Order of the Phoenix, or at least we think it’s the original Order. We may be proven wrong by the Fantastic Beasts series.
Andrew: I think the fact that Moody says in this chapter this is the original… let’s just hope that it is truly the original. I think in Crimes of Grindelwald what we saw was just… it was Order of the Phoenix adjacent, but it wasn’t what would eventually be the Order of the Phoenix, if that makes sense. But anyway.
Micah: Right, and he goes through a list of individuals, and most of them have suffered horrific deaths at the hands of Voldemort and the Death Eaters. And this is really where the chapter starts to turn. Moody thinks that he’s, of course, doing something nice for Harry by eventually getting to his parents and showing him his parents, but Peter Pettigrew happens to be standing next to them, and that really doesn’t sit well with Harry. But also, the descriptions that Moody is providing to Harry; it’s like, “Oh, Marlene McKinnon, her and her entire family were murdered by Death Eaters. And only bits of Benjy Fenwick were found.”
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Micah: “And poor Amelia bones,” who Harry saw just the chapter prior, “her brother was killed,” and so on and on it goes. And we can talk, though, about two of these characters that I think are pretty important are Gideon and Fabian Prewett, and they’re the brothers of Molly. It doesn’t explicitly state that, but I thought just given what she’s about to experience, Molly has lost a tremendous amount, and I don’t think that that is made as apparent leading into the boggart scene. So she’s lost both of her brothers in the first wizarding war, but yet now she’s asked to put her entire family at the forefront of the second wizarding war, and I think that’s more than she can take.
Eric and Laura: Yeah.
Laura: I also like the connection here between Gideon, Fabian, and Fred and George. Even the initials are the same.
Andrew: Oh, wow. Maybe that was on purpose? A tribute from Molly?
Laura: Oh, absolutely. Yeah, I think so. But it’s just interesting because of course, Gideon and Fabian both die in the first war, and at least in this one, we only lose half of the G and F combination.
Andrew: Or as Molly would put it, everybody survived the Battle of Hogwarts.
Laura: Oh my God.
[Eric laughs]
Laura: “That’s everyone in the family!”
Micah: [laughs] That’s terrible.
Andrew: Woo-hoo! [laughs] But yeah, that’s a sweet tribute. I never realized that.
Micah: Yeah, and to your point, Laura, I mean, we lose Fred, but George is also… he’s physically damaged early on in Deathly Hallows, but also, I think, even more so by the end of the book, because he’s lost his other half. A couple of other notable mentions in this photo are Frank and Alice Longbottom, Neville’s parents, and then Aberforth Dumbledore gets a mention.
[Andrew bleats like a goat]
[Laura laughs]
Micah: Oh, I’m sorry. Hold on one second.
[screaming goat sound]
Micah: We should let people know, because in case they didn’t listen to the episode where this was introduced, that is a screaming goat.
Andrew: Oh, thank you.
Eric: Also, we know who sent it now.
Micah: Oh, we do?
Eric: Yes, in MuggleCast Patrons. I believe Amber Thompson sent that in.
Andrew: Thanks, Amber.
Micah: Well, thank you, Amber. The screaming goat gets much use. He’s basically become a fifth co-host on the show.
[Everyone laughs]
Micah: All right, well, let’s talk about the boggart, because this is the centerpiece of this chapter. It is the reason behind the name of the chapter, and rightly so. I think for the first time, we see Mrs. Weasley as being extremely vulnerable. And she’s been this very strong-willed character throughout the course of the series up until this point, and she’s been a mother figure to Harry in addition to her own kids, and we really see her in a really, really tough moment when she’s trying to get rid of the boggart.
Andrew: Yeah, it’s really sad. And so Lupin is one of the people who comes in and tries to comfort her. And I thought it was interesting that Molly… when somebody is so emotional in a moment like this, they talk nonsensically, and she’s like, “Oh, who would take care of the kids?” And Lupin, trying to comfort her, says, “As for who’s going to look after Ron and Ginny if you and Arthur die, what are we going to do, let them starve?” And I thought that was funny, coming from a future dead person like Lupin.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: And also, once again, Molly is forgetting her other children. Not forgetting, but leaving them out. [laughs] So kind of interesting.
Micah: Well, they all do show up throughout the course of the scene, including Percy. And I thought it was interesting that it’s Sirius who really… I don’t know the right way to put it, but that he’s almost providing her with emotional comfort in this moment, saying that once Voldemort returns, Percy will come to his senses about what is going on, and that’s actually what ends up happening.
Andrew and Eric: Yeah.
Micah: But just given… we were talking before how Sirius is going through all this emotional and psychological turmoil, he’s been at odds with Molly, but in this moment, he’s almost comforting to her.
Eric: You know what’s interesting about that, though? It’s because moments before that, Rowling notes that Sirius – this is a quote – was “staring at the patch of carpet where the boggart, pretending to be Harry’s body, had lain.” So because Harry was included in that roulette of people, of corpses, basically, I think Sirius realizes how much worse it could be for himself. I think Sirius has a come to Jesus moment where he’s like, “Okay, at least Harry is still alive,” and that’s what makes him a little bit more tender to Molly.
Micah: Well, I would almost argue, though, that seeing Harry is almost for Sirius… not that it reaffirms, but it affirms the fact that Molly cares deeply for Harry.
Eric: Oh, yes.
Micah: Because if she didn’t, I don’t think Harry would have been one of the people that showed up there.
Eric: That’s a good point. So it also could be like, “Okay, we should set aside our differences.” Very mature a moment for Sirius.
Micah: Yeah. And I think worth raising the point, again, that it wasn’t explicitly stated when Moody was going through the Order photo, but she’s already lost two of her brothers. We don’t know necessarily how close she was with them, but we do know that they were family of hers, and she’s very much concerned. These are the realities of war, right? That she can lose any of those people.
Eric: And she doesn’t need a boggart to see them. She actually says, “I see them dead all the time. All the time. I dream about it.” This is not happy. [laughs]
Andrew: No, but that dream line is why she shouldn’t have approached the boggart.
Eric: Yeah, absolutely. She had a huge, I think, weakness. You need to be strong and mental fortitude. Look at Lupin; strides in, he’s like, “Screw you, moon,” and blows it up.
[Andrew and Micah laugh]
Andrew: Moons. Who likes moons, anyway?
Micah: Right.
Andrew: And this is really just an emotional roller coaster for Harry. There’s not only a lot happening in this chapter, but he starts off elated, and he thinks Kreacher looks less ugly, and then he gets super jealous of Ron and Hermione, and then by the end of this chapter, he’s like, “Well, I shouldn’t be complaining,” which is the right answer, and I’m glad he learned that, because it was ridiculous to get so upset over Ron and Hermione. Give them something. And do you really want that extra work? I don’t think so. And Ron and Hermione aside, let any other Gryffindor student take it besides you, Harry. You don’t need everything. You have enough of a resume already. You’re fine.
Laura: Also, he didn’t… there was never any point in the series before this moment where he even thought about wanting to be a prefect.
Andrew: Right. Right!
Laura: You’re only jealous because the two people who matter the most to you are being recognized and you’re not, and you’re not used to it. And that’s okay, but get some perspective.
Eric: Harry totally tells himself that, though. He’s like, “I don’t think I’m better than Ron.” He kind of questions himself in the bedroom.
Andrew: Yeah, right. He doubts himself in that moment. I would feel the same way as Harry if it was me and two other friends, and I’m the odd one out. But he always gets everything. You don’t need everything. You’re fine.
Micah: His name’s on the book. Move on.
Andrew: Right!
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: All right, before we get to Connecting the Threads and MVP of the Week and Renaming the Chapter, it’s time for a word from a new sponsor, TodayTix, and I’m really excited that they’re sponsoring MuggleCast because they hook lucky Harry Potter fans up with the lowest prices and some of the greatest seats at Harry Potter and the Cursed Child!
Eric: Whoa.
Andrew: Laura, you still haven’t seen Cursed Child, right?
Laura: I have not.
Andrew: So I don’t know if you all know this, but every week for each production of Cursed Child, the show runs something called the Friday 40. It’s a weekly opportunity to get some of the best seats at the show for only $40 total. That’s $20 per part. This is similar to what a lot of Broadway shows do. The Friday 40 is run in partnership between Harry Potter and the Cursed Child and TodayTix. If you don’t know TodayTix, you should check it out for Harry Potter and the Cursed Child and for all sorts of theater, comedy, dance, and more in 16 cities around the globe. It’s a great app. If you’ve been on the fence about seeing the Cursed Child, this is the best way to do it. Just keep entering until you win. And yes, you can win. I’ve won the Hamilton lottery; my brother’s won the Hamilton lottery three times. That is the hottest show around the world, so if we can win for Hamilton, you can win for Cursed Child. It’s very possible to win these things if you enter enough times. So go to TodayTix.com or download the TodayTix app to see what’s going on in your city. To enter the Friday 40 in San Francisco, go straight to TodayTix.com/MuggleCast, that’s TodayTix.com/MuggleCast, for your chance at $40 tickets to see Harry Potter and the Cursed Child in San Francisco. Laura, I’m looking at you. This is your opportunity, and I’m going to come with you, because I love San Francisco. Thank you, TodayTix. I love, love, love, when a Harry Potter-related sponsor works with us. All of our listeners should give this a shot, because something we also talk about here on MuggleCast is just how… just last week, we were talking about how it can be expensive to take these trips, but this will help you save a little money and see an amazing show. TodayTix.com/MuggleCast. All right now, so the Umbridge suck count remains unchanged at six. Other than looking like a toad, she didn’t really do anything in this chapter.
Eric: Right.
Micah: What do we think of the appraising of Harry? Is that not a opportunity to up the suck count?
Andrew: Oh. Hmm.
Eric: How dare she? I just want to shout at her, “Don’t you look at him.”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: “Don’t look at him.”
Eric: “After what you did, don’t you dare give him some appraising glance.” Let’s move the suck count up one.
Andrew: Okay, for judging a child?
Eric: Yeah!
Andrew: I agree. I don’t have the sound effect this week, so… ding!
Connecting the Threads
Andrew: And let’s connect some threads.
Laura: So what was really fun this week is that there were actually several threads that we can connect between Chapter 9 of Order of the Phoenix directly to Chapter 9 of Prisoner of Azkaban, so this was really cool.
Andrew: Oh, hell yeah.
Laura: Yeah, so we have the general subplot of Lucius Malfoy exercising his influence to have Buckbeak executed; that happened all throughout Prisoner of Azkaban. And then we have Harry running into Lucius waiting for Fudge with gold in his pockets in Chapter 9 of Order of the Phoenix, so pretty clear connection there, and the first time that we actually get to see Lucius directly buying his interests with the Minister. Then in Chapter 9 of Prisoner of Azkaban, Snape purposely lectures the class about werewolves in order to tip folks off that their teacher is a werewolf.
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: And then in Chapter 9 of Order of the Phoenix, Hermione engages Lupin in a discussion about the treatment and welfare of werewolves. Then in Chapter 9 of Prisoner of Azkaban, Harry tragically loses his Nimbus 2000 when he falls off during a pretty nasty storm playing Quidditch, and in Chapter 9 of Order of the Phoenix, Ron gets a new broom for the first time. He gets that Cleansweep because he got the prefect position.
Andrew: Wow. Yeah.
Laura: Then in Prisoner of Azkaban, we learn about Peter Pettigrew’s betrayal of the Potters, and then Mad-Eye shows Harry that picture in which he sits between Lily and James in this chapter. And then finally, on the note of boggarts, Lupin causes the boggart to assume the form of a full moon to help Mrs. Weasley in this chapter of Order of the Phoenix, much like he does to prevent the boggart from assuming Harry’s worst fear in Chapter 7 of Prisoner of Azkaban.
Eric: Wow.
Andrew: I love that.
Micah: Laura needs her own music for this.
Laura: I do.
Micah: Can we work on that?
Andrew: Let’s find a theme.
Laura: Somebody produce some.
[Eric beatboxes]
Andrew: We could find a theme, that’d be fun.
[Eric sings the Doug theme song]
Laura: Why is it the Doug theme song?
Eric: I don’t know.
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: That’s the first thing…
Micah: I was going to say.
Andrew: Now available on Disney Plus.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: We know what Eric’s been watching.
Eric: Wait, is it?
Andrew: Doug the first movie is, I know that. I don’t know about the TV show.
Eric: Okay, because Disney did buy Doug. It was like, “Disney’s Doug!” But I don’t know. I’ll figure it out.
MVP of the Week
Andrew: Time now for MVP of the Week.
Micah: Given what Laura just said in her connecting the threads about Lupin, I have to give him my MVP of the week, not only for offering to take care of Molly’s children, but for coming in and making the boggart disappear.
Laura: I’m going to have to give mine to Mrs. Weasley for reminding us all of the human cost at stake in this war.
Eric: Yeah, super important. I’m going to give mine to Ron. I mentioned the laugh out loud moments in Order of the Phoenix are few and far between, but another one that got me in this chapter… it’s not a happy chapter, but I laughed so hard when Ron says to Hermione… she’s talking about sponsoring a cleaning of the Gryffindor common room to help the elves, and Ron just says under his breath so that only Harry can hear, “I’ll sponsor you to shut up about SPEW.”
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Eric: These two lovers.
Andrew: Eric was really tickled this chapter.
Eric: I was very tickled. I don’t know what that says about me as a person, but…
Andrew: [laughs] I’m going to give it to the boggart for really putting things into perspective and for reminding Harry and Sirius of what’s most important, even though it was a cruel thing for Mrs. Weasley to experience.
Rename the Chapter
Andrew: And speaking of that, for Rename the Chapter: Order of the Phoenix Chapter 9, “Not my daughter, you boggart!”
Eric: Ha.
Micah: Love it. Order of the Phoenix Chapter 9, “Next time, let Moody handle it.”
Eric: [laughs] Yeah! He offered, didn’t he?
Laura: Order of the Phoenix Chapter 9, “But I’m the Chosen One.”
[Andrew and Micah laugh]
Eric: And Order of the Phoenix Chapter 9, “Ode to the next door neighbors.”
Andrew: That one’s a thinker.
Micah: I see what you did there.
Eric: Yeah. This one goes out to all the next door neighbors out there.
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: Fred, George… you know who you are.
Andrew: If you have any feedback about today’s episode, please email MuggleCast@gmail.com or go to MuggleCast.com and use the contact form. You can also hit us up on social media: @MuggleCast on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook. Be sure to follow us there as well. You get show previews, you get show clips, you get lots of fun content.
Quizzitch
Andrew: Time now for Quizzitch.
Eric: Last week’s question… or the question from two weeks ago, actually, because we skipped it. Sorry. What name does Malfoy give Harry while at the Ministry? I deliberately did not say Lucius Malfoy, but Lucius is the only person that we do see with the last name Malfoy. He calls Harry “Patronus Potter.”
Andrew: Which is a cool name.
Eric: Kind of cool.
Andrew: Thanks, Lucius.
Micah: I’d totally own that. I’d be like, “Yeah.”
Andrew: I would too. “Sorry I can produce a great Patronus.”
Eric: [laughs] “Yeah, sorry.” So correct answers were submitted by many people to us over on Twitter, including Lacey Drawers, Ryan Nolan, Megan, Meg Scott, Ewan McLeod, Air Assassin, and Stacey. We’re going to put everybody’s name who did submit the correct answer in a tweet and thank you personally directly over on Twitter.
Micah: What about Count Ravioli?
Eric: You know, Micah, whatever you have going on with Count Ravioli, you should just take it offline.
[Micah laughs]
Andrew: It’s your business.
Eric: You know what? She directly apologized to you for being late last week.
Micah: Yeah, I saw that. Two weeks ago.
Eric: While getting the correct answer, so yes, her as well. But yeah, this game is played over on Twitter; @ reply MuggleCast and hashtag “Quizzitch.” Next week’s question: What is Luna Lovegood’s mother’s name? This is not from the chapter, but next chapter is “Luna Lovegood.”
Andrew: Okay, a deep cut. We can talk about Evanna Lynch getting the role, too, because that story is really interesting.
Eric: That’s a great story.
Andrew: We would love if you joined our community at Patreon.com/MuggleCast. We’re posting bonus content there, we’re posting behind-the-scenes looks, we’re posting a lot, and your support goes to running this show, so thank you so much. We are already putting together our benefits for 2020, and we think that y’all are going to be really excited about some of the things we have planned, especially because it is going to be our 15th anniversary. That’s really exciting.
Laura: Oh my God.
Eric: Wow.
Andrew: Yeah, and in a nice round year like 2020? That’s super cool. So pledge at Patreon.com/MuggleCast today; we really appreciate your support. Thank you so much. Also, just to let everybody know, in two weeks, we will be taking a week off. That is the week after Thanksgiving, but be sure to tune in next week. We will be offering a Harry Potter gift guide of sorts. Thanks, everybody, for listening. I’m Andrew.
Eric: I’m Eric.
Micah: I’m Micah.
Laura: And I’m Laura.
Andrew: See you next time. Goodbye!
Eric, Laura, and Micah: Bye.