Transcript for MuggleCast Episode #678, Sugar Daddy Harry (OOTP Chapter 4, Number Twelve, Grimmauld Place)
Show Intro
[Show music plays]
Andrew Sims: Welcome to MuggleCast, your weekly ride into the Wizarding World fandom. I’m Andrew.
Eric Scull: I’m Eric.
Micah Tannenbaum: I’m Micah.
Laura Tee: And I’m Laura.
Andrew: And this week, come join us as we analyze Order of the Phoenix Chapter 4, “Number 12 Grimmauld Place,” but be sure to tiptoe down the hall quietly, because we don’t want to wake up Walburga Black. I don’t know if I’ve ever pronounced her name out loud before. Walburga? Did I get that right?
Laura: Yeah, that’s how I would say it. To be honest with you, I forgot that was her name until I Googled her, so there we go. [laughs]
Micah: Gotta say, “Wall-burga!”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: That’s what I was thinking. It sounds like Wahlburgers. Now I’m going to go get a Wahlburger after the show.
Eric: You know when you’re in college and you’re working, you’re studying all day, and then you and your friends go out at night for a Wahl-burga?
[Micah laughs]
Andrew: Wahl-burga.
Eric: And fries?
Andrew: I’ve never had a Wahlburger.
Eric: Yeah, it’s good.
Micah: What do you think her nickname was?
Eric: Wally.
Micah: Molly had… Wallywobbles.
Eric: Wallywobbles, then.
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: I like Wally.
Eric: I think Mr. Black, dearly departed Mr. Black, probably called her Wallywobbles.
Andrew: Well, before we get started with Chapter by Chapter, we have some actually pretty exciting news: We now have an official merch store available at MuggleCastMerch.com. This is the new home of all MuggleCast merchandise, all original MuggleCast merchandise. This is stuff we haven’t released to patrons either; this is all brand new stuff. We have T-shirts, sweaters, hoodies, hats, and we will be rolling out more in the months ahead. We even have Security Nightmare gear, including a couple things that say “Security Consultant” on them, and that means you will be hired at Hogwarts to finally get that place under control. I mentioned a hat; we’re calling it the MuggleCap in the store. We have drinkware. We even have a Pickle Pack shirt!
Eric: This stuff has never existed before, which is a big moment of excitement for me. And also, Andrew, what are you wearing right now?
Andrew: I’m glad you asked. I’m wearing a “We criticize because we care” T-shirt, and this shirt and other designs have our iconic mic bolt design on them as well. This shirt… it’s a common refrain on the show, “We criticize because we care.”
Eric: It’s true.
Andrew: We’ve gotten feedback over the years. “Why are you guys complaining about this or that?” We’re criticizing because we want to see the fandom thrive! We want to see the story thrive! We criticize because we care. So this shirt is not just for people in the Harry Potter fandom; it’s for people in all fandoms, because it’s a common issue everywhere. We do ship worldwide, and like I said, we plan to roll out new products in the months ahead, so stay tuned. How about y’all? What are you most looking forward to wearing?
Eric: I definitely got a Security Consultant – or Security Nightmare – shirt, and that’s on order, as well as some of the glassware. We have glassware.
Laura: Look how fancy we are.
Andrew: Very sophisticated.
Eric: It says “Potions Master” on it, which I love.
Micah: Old fashioned would look nice in that.
Eric: Yeah, mix me up a cocktail. And Micah, you have to come to Chicago and bring yours, and then we’ll mix them up.
Andrew: We have a MuggleCast mug as well, and there’s a strong emphasis on “Mug” in MuggleCast, as you’ll see in the design. Slug Club patrons right now have access to a special discount code, so please check that out, Slug Club patrons. They were the first to receive access to the store. So yeah, once again, MuggleCastMerch.com. For the first time ever, we have an official merch store. This is a new opportunity to support us, and we know people have been asking for MuggleCast merch outside of Patreon, so it’s a win-win. Check it all out. Thanks, everybody.
Chapter by Chapter: Time-Turner
Andrew: And now it’s time for Chapter by Chapter, and this week we’re discussing Order of the Phoenix Chapter 4, “Number 12 Grimmauld Place.”
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Andrew: I love saying those numbers back to back.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: And Eric, we got a Time-Turner segment this week, right?
Eric: We do, we do. Yes, we last discussed this chapter on Episode 229, called “Sunglasses Not Recommended.” Okay. And also Episode 436 – this one makes sense – it’s called “ALL CAPS” in all caps.
Andrew: Ooh, good one.
Eric: And that was… so 229 was on May 27, 2011, and 436 was September 23, 2019. Over five years ago. I’ve got to say, for this week’s audio clip of the Time-Turner segment, it’s rated PG-13. I just want to put that out there.
Andrew: Oh, boy.
Eric: Luke, Forrest, cover your ears.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: I’m sorry, but Micah has been bringing it with the innuendo, and this week, I decided to let him.
Laura: Oh, dear.
[Ticking sound]
Dumbledore: Three turns should do it, I think. Good luck.
Ron: What the…?
[Bell dings]
[Whooshing sound]
Robotic voice: Episode 229.
Eric: We learn that Bill Weasley is home from Egypt; he’s taken a desk job at Gringotts in London. And we also find out that “old Fleur Delacour” is working at Gringotts and getting private English lessons from Bill.
Andrew: Private English lessons.
Eric: Right.
Andrew: Locked in a room all by themselves.
Eric: Yes, funny how…
Andrew: I can see where true love is going to spark now.
Eric: Bill is being very…
Micah: Yeah, she was probably having some fun with those Knuts.
[Bell dings]
[Whooshing sound]
Robotic voice: Episode 436.
Andrew: A couple pages later, Harry describes the house “as though it belonged to the Darkest of wizards,” which I found interesting because two books ago, that was Sirius to Harry. He was the Darkest of wizards.
Eric: Oh, man. I love that.
Laura: That’s a really nice kind of connecting the threats moment. I love that.
Andrew: Yay, I did one.
[Everyone laughs]
Micah: Go Andrew.
[Whooshing sound]
[Ticking sound]
Dumbledore: Mysterious thing, time.
[Bell dings]
Micah: Andrew is just the setup man. He set me up for that joke, if you listen back to 229.
Andrew: There you go.
Eric: Hey, you had to take it.
Laura: And what I love about it is it’s a blink and you’ll miss it moment. I love it.
Andrew and Eric: Yeah.
Chapter by Chapter: Main Discussion
Laura: Well, I love reflecting on this chapter because reading it back at this point, so much about what is going to go down in this book is, in retrospect, incredibly obvious, because we have a lot of setup happening here. First and foremost, the foreshadowing about Sirius’s eventual unaliving is really blunt, and I’m wondering if any of us picked up on any of this the first time. So we have Grimmauld Place, which really just sounds like it’s intended to be like “Grim old place,” which I think is a great descriptor for Sirius’s childhood home. There’s of course the connection to Sirius’s Animagus form being mistaken for the Grim, which is the omen of death two years prior. And when they enter the home, Harry and the Advance Guard, it’s noted that “it was as though they had just entered the house of a dying person,” because they’re speaking in hushed tones. Mrs. Weasley also warns Harry to keep quiet so as to not wake anything up, which I think just lends a sense of foreboding of what the heck they’re walking into here. And Andrew, you had something else you wanted to call out?
Andrew: Well, yeah, I just wanted to mention because we see it used across the series; here is another example of the number 12 being used, and this is probably one of the most prominent uses of number 12 in the series. But yeah, I don’t remember personally reading this the first time and thinking, “There’s bad news ahead for one of the characters,” but at this point in the series, we’re five books in. Somebody either gets unalived or disappears by the end of the book, so maybe I should have been more cautious when reading this and thinking, “Well, somebody’s going to be disappearing. Maybe it’s going to be a Black with all this foreshadowing that’s going on around here.”
Eric: I just remember feeling a sense of dread this whole book, but because it starts off Harry is in such a bad place, and now this new place is not exciting in a happy way.
Micah: It’s not the Burrow.
Eric: Yeah, “What great terror awaits us around this corner? Or in this drawer?” is something that everyone’s asking, and it’s depressing.
Laura: Speaking of depressing, Harry is still feeling really isolated in this moment, even though he’s having a couple of reunions here. Mrs. Weasley pretty quickly shoos him off to the room that he’s going to be staying in, which is where Ron and Hermione are hanging out right now, and she does this in the service of getting him out of the way so that she and the other adults can go to an Order meeting that the kids are not allowed to go to. And I thought this would be a really good opportunity for us to reestablish the conversation we’ve had over the years of “Is the Horcrux acting up here?” because initially, Harry feels a “warm glow” flare inside of him at the sight of his two best friends…
Andrew: Aww.
Laura: … but he suddenly feels it “extinguished as something icy flooded the pit of his stomach. All of a sudden – after yearning to see them for a solid month – he felt he would rather Ron and Hermione left him alone.”
Andrew: Wow.
Laura: So I thought it would be interesting for us to watch for the actual descriptors, the adjectives that are at play when these moments happen, when Harry is really agitated, or we see him described as starting to get ticked off really quickly, because I think there might be some clues here that we can use to justify whether or not we think this is Horcrux influence or it’s just Harry. And to me, when I read this description of something icy flooding the pit of his stomach, it feels like the Horcrux to me.
Eric: Yeah, you expect to hear a sound cue that’s like, [makes a drooping noise]
Laura: Right.
Andrew: [imitating Voldemort] “Don’t get too happy! I’m still haunting you!”
[Everyone laughs]
Micah: Yeah, moments like these can definitely be attributed to the Horcrux, but I also think that it’s important to note that the Horcrux needs to feed off of certain emotions. Harry is behaving much how we would expect a 15-year-old who’s been isolated all summer from his friends to behave, but there’s this extra edge to him in this chapter, and really, we haven’t seen Harry like this before; we haven’t seen these emotions bubble up to the surface. But this is that initial moment… like you said, Laura, there’s this warm glow initially to see the people that he has been longing to see for so long and spend some time with, but then it’s almost like he catches himself and he puts himself in check and says, “Hold on. These are also the people who haven’t been talking to me all summer long, so I’m going to let loose.”
Eric: Yeah. Like, “Wait a minute, I’m mad at these people!”
Andrew: Yeah. Well, and also, it is exciting to see Ron and Hermione, but they’re in this very depressing area. Like, “Oh, this is cool, but where are we right now?” I mean, he still doesn’t even know this is a Black family home.
Eric: No, he’s desperate to be so mad at them, and when he finds out that they’ve been miserable too, or in the same awful place, the fact that he really can’t be mad at them and shouldn’t be mad at them to begin with, it doesn’t stop him from blowing up, because he just needs to get this out. And to Micah’s point about Harry behaving in a way in which you’d expect, Hermione and Ron did expect this. They expected him to be angry. Hermione says as much at least twice, like, “We knew that if you were left alone and given no info…” And Harry says things that aren’t quite fair. And the problem is… I think it’s pretty clear the person he should be mad at exclusively is Dumbledore, but Dumbledore is untouchable. You can’t be mad at Dumbledore because Dumbledore ain’t around. He’s not taking any calls. Nobody talk to him; he’s away. So in the meantime, his friends get shouted at, and it’s not great.
Andrew: I like this question from Ariane Beth, who’s listening live on our Patreon right now: “Could Harry’s Horcrux also be reacting to proximity to the locket? Which is there until Sirius dies and Mundungus ransacks the place.” So that’s a good theory, right?
Laura: Yeah, I mean, Harry, I think, would certainly be more susceptible to being sensitive to it. We’ll have to pay attention to what happens when we actually see the locket, because we are going to see it.
Eric: It’s funny; from what I recall, nothing happens? They don’t feel a sense of dread or anything? They’re actually curious more than ever, because when they find it during cleaning, every single one of them gets a chance to try and open it, and they can’t open it, so they’re all kind of exposing themselves, getting really, really close to the locket, and it’s just a locket. It’s fun that it’s mentioned, but none of them seem to come down with anything. But what I was just thinking of was what if the locket has really expanded on that sense of dread? Because it’s been in this house for many years now at this point, so what if it’s taken over… as we know that it’s contained in the locket, but this particular Horcrux has a way of emanating out and making everyone around it miserable, so what if at this point it’s confined in the whole house? And not just…
Laura: That’s interesting.
Eric: I wonder if… and then that would explain why everything is so grim, on top of the fact that there are just grim circumstances in the world.
Micah: Don’t we attribute the locket to why Kreacher behaves much of the way that he does as well? Because he’s in possession of it?
Eric: Yeah, either the locket or the potion, but he definitely keeps the locket real close.
Micah: One question I did want to ask, though, about this iciness that he gets in his stomach: Couldn’t that just be anxiety? Couldn’t it be nerves building up as he’s about to explode?
Laura: Yeah, for sure.
Andrew: Yeah, because now he knows… he’s excited to see Ron and Hermione, but now he knows he needs to have a talking with them, because he’s got feelings that he needs to get out. So yeah, that could explain it.
Laura: Yeah, and maybe some fear, too, because I’m sure there’s got to be not only anxiety driving the response that he has here, but he probably is a little bit afraid of yelling at his friends, deep down.
Andrew: I would be too! That’s tough. They deserve it, but that’s tough.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: Do they? No, no, they don’t. No, they don’t.
Laura: Well, let’s actually talk about some specific examples of Harry’s Caps Lock rant, and talk about whether we think they’re mostly being driven by Harry himself, or are they being driven by the Horcrux? And I’m actually wondering if I can get some dramatic readings out of y’all. So has anyone had a hard day? Does anyone feel like shouting?
Andrew: I think Micah said he had a hard day. Let’s have Micah do it.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: Come on, get the rage out, Micah. This is like ax-throwing, but on a podcast.
Micah: Well, I’ll start with a little bit of self-doubt and calmness. “Maybe he thinks I can’t be trusted.”
Laura: This is about Dumbledore. Harry or Horcrux, y’all?
Andrew: Harry.
Eric: That one’s Harry, just because that level of insecurity… he says it in a way that it’s like it would be unfair and ridiculous for Dumbledore to think that, but it’s real, raw insecurity. That’s what Harry’s best explanation is for why Dumbledore is not being forthcoming with him.
Laura: Yeah. All right, Micah, are you ready?
Micah: I’m ready. Let’s go.
Laura: Okay.
Micah: “YOU’VE STILL BEEN HERE, HAVEN’T YOU? YOU’VE STILL BEEN TOGETHER!”
Eric: Ohh.
Andrew: Oh my God, that was scary as hell.
Micah: [laughs] Well, wasn’t that the idea?
Andrew: I don’t like that. Laura, this was a bad idea.
[Laura laughs]
Micah: I think I triggered Andrew.
Andrew: I feel like I just saw the beast in Beauty and the Beast when he’s raging.
[Laura and Micah laugh]
Eric: “STAY OUT OF THE WEST WING!”
[Everyone laughs]
Laura: Oh, incredible.
Andrew: No, that was great, Micah.
Micah: Harry, right?
Laura: Yeah, I think so.
Eric: That one… yeah, he’s holding it against them that Hermione… yeah, it’s just unfair, but it’s all Harry, I think.
Laura: All right, anyone else want to shout?
Eric: I’ll do this one. “I’VE HANDLED MORE THAN YOU TWO’VE EVER MANAGED AND DUMBLEDORE KNOWS IT!”
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: Damn, Harry. That’s so rude.
Andrew: Yeah, it’s a little much.
Eric: What are we thinking?
Andrew: I’m going to say Horcrux Harry.
Micah: Agree.
Eric: Okay. How come?
Andrew: It’s just out of character to say, “I’ve done more than you two have, so why am I in the dark?”
Eric: Well, and he says things like, “Who fought the…? Who got the Stone? Who went to the Chamber?” It’s like, “Dude, you didn’t do that in a vacuum, okay? These two were with you.”
[Micah laughs]
Eric: Ron literally laid down himself to get you as far as the Stone. It’s completely uncalled for. And it gives me… it’s giving Voldemort when he says, “I, who have traveled further and studied more and done more than the others to evade death. I’ve gone farther than any other wizard.” It’s literally like…
Micah: He’s bragging.
Eric: He’s bragging, yeah. “I’ve handled more than you two.”
Micah: And he invokes Dumbledore.
Eric: Well, this isn’t a job interview. He doesn’t need to prove to them that he’s qualified. They’re his best friends, and he’s their best friend. That’s why I think it’s Horcrux.
Laura: Yeah, this is petty. Harry is not really a petty person, not really, so I agree.
Eric: Well, and to Micah’s point, too, the mention of Dumbledore. If anything is going to bring the Horcrux in Harry out, it’s the name Dumbledore. Keeping totally separate from the fact that Harry has a great reason to be upset with Dumbledore, that’s a name that you would think the Horcrux in Harry, if it were listening, would be like, “Hate that guy,” and then go crazy.
Andrew: We have one more all caps moment here. He says, “I SUPPOSE YOU’VE BEEN HAVING A REAL LAUGH, HAVEN’T YOU, ALL HOLED UP HERE TOGETHER.”
Laura: [laughs] That was very good.
Eric: It was great.
Laura: Great performances.
Andrew: My general feeling about the all caps moments is they are all Horcrux Harry, because even though Harry has reason to be angry with his friends, the all caps, raging, Micah-style yelling just feels out of character for Harry for his best friends. It just seems so inappropriate. Can you imagine yelling at your own best friends, or friends of five, six years in this way?
Eric: Then again, he’s not being given a channel to process the trauma that he still has from just seeing Cedric die a month ago, and so this is very… these outbursts that are not characteristic are, in fact, textbook PTSD or post-trauma reactions because he’s not actually confronting his emotion.
Micah: This one was a little bit more difficult for me, because even though you could blame it on the Horcrux, there’s also this moment of deep insecurity that comes across in what he’s saying here, the fact that he thinks that Ron and Hermione have been off in Grimmauld Place having some laughs at his expense. They’re together; he’s not. He’s the odd man out. He’s being left out of the situation. That speaks very much to his own insecurity of the entire situation that he’s been put into this summer.
Laura: Doesn’t the Horcrux amplify that feeling, though? I think we see that with Ron in two books’ time, right? Where his moments of insecurity are really heightened and amplified when he’s wearing the Horcrux. So Harry’s got one in his head; I think it makes it worse, for sure.
Andrew: So setting angry Harry aside, I actually think this chapter might make him feel better, and not because of the raging, but we’ll talk about that in a moment. We’ll be right back.
[Ad break]
Andrew: So I have a bit of a theory I want to run by y’all. I’m wondering if Harry starts to feel better about being left in the dark after what he learns in this chapter, because he doesn’t learn a lot of great information, and it’s not like Ron and Hermione have been having it easy either. So here are some examples: First of all, Ron and Hermione have been left in the dark when it comes to the Order meetings. They have to be cautious moving around this mystery house that they’re in because of Mrs. Black’s portrait. Snape is popping in. Ew, gross.
[Micah laughs]
Andrew: Dumbledore has been a very busy man. He hasn’t been vacationing; he hasn’t been hanging out with everybody. Fred and George have been popping into bedrooms unannounced to show off their Apparition licenses, which just sounds really annoying. They’re all cramped in this dark and depressing house. Molly is stressed. I just think the Dursleys’ house was abusive and bad, and Harry was left in the dark, but after seeing what’s been going on at 12 Grimmauld Place, hasn’t been that much better over here either.
Eric: Does Harry feel better because of this? No, because it just… he literally did not imagine that Ron and Hermione would also be having a bad summer, because how could you have a bad summer when you’re together?
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: But it turns out, Dumbledore has found a way to not tell people things even when they’re together!
Laura: Yeah. And also, I just… I’ve got to call out here; I don’t think there’s any evidence here to confirm that Dumbledore has not been vacationing.
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: Yeah, they say he’s been busy, but I don’t know. I need to see receipts. I need to see what the man’s been up to. I don’t believe it. [laughs]
Andrew: Well, okay, maybe…
Micah: Let’s see his AmEx from JJ’s and make sure that he was popping back some margaritas.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: Yeah, yeah, he’s been busy. He’s been busy delegating… from the beach.
Andrew: That may be true, but we know he wasn’t at 12 Grimmauld Place, so it’s not like everybody’s been hanging out with Dumbledore without Harry.
Micah: I really do like how you put this all together, though, Andrew, and it just shows that there are varying degrees of isolation. Harry is in one situation in Grimmauld Place, and despite the fact that Ron and Hermione are together, they’re still very much not in the know of what’s going on. But I do think if you were to ask Harry, he would have still preferred to be there, because he would be with his friends. He would be within the wizarding community, which I think that’s the hardest part for him. It’s not that he’s necessarily isolated from his friends; it’s that he’s isolated from this whole other world of which he is now a part of, and that’s the hard part for him.
Andrew: I agree with you. I put this together because while I was reading the chapter, I was like, “Oh, this isn’t that great. Snape. Dirty old house.”
Laura: Right.
Andrew: Oh, Ron and Hermione have to do a lot of cleaning. I think I skipped over that one. That’s not fun. [laughs]
Eric: Yeah. Harry is like, “I know how to clean.”
Andrew: Yeah, yeah, “Let me clean.” I mean, cleaning can be fun, but cleaning this house? I don’t know. I don’t want to deep clean this house. [laughs]
Eric: I don’t know; it’s got all this magic stuff in it. It could be kind of cool.
Laura: See, I feel like cleaning would be a lot more fun if we could use magic to clean. [laughs]
Andrew: Yeah, yeah.
Laura: And I know that’s how the kids are going to feel here in the next couple of chapters. But yeah, I agree with you, and I think adding to the mix here that Ron and Hermione really want to tell Harry what’s going on and they can’t, so they’re having to deal with the frustration and the isolation of their environment all while being told, “No, you can’t tell your best friend what’s going on, even though really scary stuff is happening to him.” So I think Harry does feel a little bad towards the end. We definitely see him start calming down, especially when conversation turns to Percy, which we’ll talk about here in the next few minutes. But before we get to that, I wanted to ask if we agree with Mrs. Weasley not letting the kids attend the meetings. Again, the whole reason this Caps Lock Harry moment is able to play out is because Mrs. Weasley very quickly sends him into a room where he can be alone with Ron and Hermione while she and the other adults attend to Order business. I think it’s interesting that even Fred and George, who are of age, can’t attend.
Eric: I mean, yeah, this is the kind of situation, though, where I think Molly probably suspects – and we believe – that if any one of them hears what’s going on in the meeting, they’re going to spill the beans to the rest of the kids.
Andrew: Especially Fred and George. They cannot be trusted.
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: But there is a question about would they tell anyone outside this group? And that, I don’t think so.
Micah: No.
Eric: I can’t see Fred and George even telling their good friend Lee Jordan about what they heard in the meetings if they were allowed in the meetings, because Lee is not in the Order, and so yeah, I don’t know. I don’t know how I feel about Molly’s decision.
Laura: Yeah, I think another way to think about this is what if Harry had been allowed to know more? Maybe not everything, but more about what the Order was protecting, and specifically where they were protecting it. Would the outcome of this story have been different?
Eric: Oh, 100%. Harry doesn’t yet know that he’s been dreaming about the Ministry of Magic, and it’ll be something that’s interesting to look up in the next chapter when we learn more about what guard duty is or who’s doing what just to… because I think with enough information, Harry would volunteer that he’s been seeing things, and they would have started Occlumency a lot sooner. And yeah, totally different book.
Micah: Just to go back to the Fred and George point and the fact that they are of age: One thing that came to mind for me with Molly is that she already has two sons and a husband who are in the Order; she lost two brothers in the first war. Maybe she wants to limit the risk here a little bit. She does have seven kids in total, and including them all in Order business seems extremely risky, and we know what a protective mother she is of her children. Also of Harry, but I do think it seems a bit silly to not let Harry in a little bit more, and the main reason there just being, look at the first four years of these three at Hogwarts. You don’t give them information, what ends up happening?
Eric: Trouble!
Andrew and Laura: Yeah.
Micah: They find their way into trouble anyway.
Eric: Mischief! Yeah, yeah. Well, yes, I agree 100%.
Andrew: I think that’s a really good point, Micah, looking at her other family members. I think that Molly is very stressed, and Harry is noting this in this chapter. I think he says she’s looking thinner or more frail, and I would not be surprised if she doesn’t want to push that stress onto the kids by them all learning this information. That said, I do also agree. I like this idea – I think, Eric, you said – if Fred and George learn everything, they’re not going to go and tell Seamus. There’s an unspoken trust that everybody… what happens in this house stays in this house. [laughs]
Eric: Pretty much, yeah.
Andrew: And I don’t even think you would have to tell the kids that. I think there’s an understanding that what’s going on here, what’s being discussed here, is very serious. We have this place on lockdown, and this stuff can’t get out. I would trust the kids.
Eric: Yeah, yeah, I think so too. And actually, getting back to the question about whether Molly is just trying to protect her kids, I think that tracks. I also was reviewing “The Sacking of Severus Snape” from Deathly Hallows, and it’s literally the point where all of her children want to fight in the Battle of Hogwarts, and her only hope is to keep Ginny out of it, because Ginny is still the youngest. And it doesn’t work, sort of, but Molly wants always to protect as many of her children as possible, and even if that means shielding them from the truth, unfortunately.
Laura: Yeah. Well, she’s also, to her credit, probably thinking about what could happen if somehow her children were outed as being Order members, right? I mean, that puts targets on their back, so she is thinking about keeping them safe. Unfortunately, I think keeping them completely in the dark ends up shooting the whole operation in the foot.
Eric: Yeah, but ultimately, it’s not Molly’s decision. You know Dumbledore was probably just like, “No effing kids.” [laughs]
Laura: Oh, for sure.
Eric: And then they all have to follow his orders. There’s no way he’s going to sit in the same meeting as these children. He’s not going to do it.
Andrew: [laughs] That’s a fun point too. Yeah, he doesn’t want to be meeting with Fred and George. Screw that.
Eric: Yeah, what the hell?
Laura: I mean, is he even coming to these meetings? I don’t see him there tonight. [laughs]
Andrew: No. He’s popping in and out real quick.
Micah: He came in through the back door.
Laura: No, he’s literally the guy who sets the meeting, but then doesn’t show up for it.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: Yeah, right. Well, and Snape doesn’t want to be working with Fred and George. Like, come on. [laughs] He’s out of the Order if that happens.
Eric: Yeah, like peers? Can you see that happening? Yeah, no. There are still leagues of difference between what some of these adult wizards are getting up to, versus what these children could reasonably contribute. All of that to say that separately, Harry needs to be let in immediately on everything, but they don’t know if they can trust him because if Voldemort is listening. But the fact that that is not described to Harry until after Mr. Weasley nearly dies is messed up.
Laura: I agree with y’all overall, but I will just remind everyone that Mundungus Fletcher is in the Order of the Phoenix, so I mean, I can’t see how any of these kids could be worse than him. [laughs]
Andrew: But he’s an adult.
Eric: Ehh…
Laura: Yeah, who dips out at two very crucial moments that we see in the series.
Eric: In this chapter…
Laura: Yes!
Eric: … Hermione says that Dumbledore was scary-looking. But Dung is still alive, so honestly, bit of fluff there with Dumbledore. He didn’t kill Mundungus. If he didn’t spell that guy flat immediately for doing what he did and putting Harry at risk and putting their whole operation at risk… everyone in the Order knows that this whole book series revolves around Harry. Everyone knows that it’s all because of him. And Mundungus did something so reckless that should absolutely have made him not be able to still be in the Order, but the Order is desperate. Look at their choice in venue as well. Something I was thinking while reading this: They have nowhere else to be. You would think people who have Dumbledore’s magical talent could come up with… literally fabricate a headquarters that is shiny, new, spacious, everything, but no, they’re in this old, dilapidated house. There really is not a plethora of places they can go. The Order is actually, in a sad sort of way, trying to raise awareness for something that the government is completely antithetical to.
Laura: Yeah. Well, Eric, I’m glad that you brought up Dumbledore’s anger about the Dementor attack, because a lot of story beats that we’re left with at the end of Goblet of Fire are picked up here, including that Hermione saying Dumbledore looked scary. And we can remember at the very end of Goblet, Dumbledore really trying to convince Fudge that allying ourselves with Dementors is a terrible idea, and we can tell Dumbledore is obviously ticked off about this, because it’s kind of an “I told you so” moment. What did you think was going to happen? We also get to hear about the Daily Prophet picking up where Rita left off. To Hermione’s satisfaction, Rita is not writing anymore right now, but the Daily Prophet has definitely taken to undermining Harry at every turn and really trying to set expectations that Harry is not to be believed, so that when he says things like “Voldemort is back,” people think he’s just crazy.
Eric: It’s really insidious and unfortunately a really valuable tactic for the Ministry to deploy their campaign to smear Harry, and I also get upset with Harry that he doesn’t have good media literacy. This whole time, he could have been clued in on some of these finer points of what the Ministry was trying to do. I don’t think it would have made him less angry, but unfortunately, there’s this scene between him and Hermione, and she’s like, “Haven’t you been getting the Prophet?” And he’s like, “Yeah.” And she’s like, “Well, have you been reading it?” He’s like, “Pfft, first page.” She’s like, “Oh, Harry. No.”
Andrew: “Because I’m the Chosen One, so of course I would be covered on page 1.”
[Laura laughs]
Eric: “I would be on the front page!”
Andrew: “I would be on A1 above the fold.”
Micah: That’s very Horcrux-y of him.
Andrew: [laughs] It does seem like an oversight to not read through the entire paper. I feel like he would read the entire paper simply because he’s bored at the Dursleys’.
Eric: He wants to feel connected! Yeah!
Andrew: Yeah, go further back into the paper. Play the Daily Prophet‘s Wordle or crossword puzzle. He’s only looking at the front page or the front couple of pages?
Laura: Well, he says that’s because he assumed that if there was anything reported about Voldemort’s return, it would be front page news. It’s almost like he forgot everything that Dumbledore said at the end of Goblet. It’s almost like he forgot Fudge’s reaction to everything, and he was leading under the assumption that eventually the truth would come out, and surely it would be front page news. But unfortunately, Fudge is… he’s really, really… what’s the word I’m thinking of? Sorry.
Micah: Strategic.
Eric: Leaning on the…
Laura: Yeah, he’s really leaning heavily on the Daily Prophet to influence the way that they’re reporting on their stories.
Andrew: Well, yeah, and I agree with that, but I just still think Harry is so bored at the Dursleys’; he’s got nothing else to do. Don’t you want to know what’s happening in the wizarding world, outside of Voldemort’s return? Maybe that would make you happier if you saw some good news in the Prophet about…
Laura: It’s very on brand for Harry, though; let’s be honest. In a few chapters, Dolores Umbridge is going to give this tyrannical, autocratic speech at the opening feast of term, and Harry is going to zone out because he gets bored and he’s going to need Hermione to explain to him what the heck it was Dolores Umbridge just said.
Eric: And then he passes off her summary as his own opinion and gets caught on it by McGonagall, I think, which is fun.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Laura: I love that.
Micah: Even if Harry had read the Daily Prophet, though, to me, he seems like more of a skimmer, and if he’s only looking at the headlines, he’s not going to pick up on the nuance that Hermione brings up to him in this chapter. These were just very casual passing references that were included in articles that likely Harry is not going to be sitting there and reading every single article, so unless it’s bold and in the headlines, I don’t think it’s capturing his attention.
Eric: But then think about what it says about Hermione’s love for Harry that she is reading every article, and her ability to comprehend what she’s reading and see what the Ministry is doing. The fact that… the reason that Hermione is so clued in when Umbridge speaks at the start of term is because she’s been seeing the stage get set for exactly this sort of thing. She’s apt. Aren’t we so glad we have Hermione as our great ally? Everyone but Harry can agree that Hermione is great always, and is always on his side, clearly.
Laura: For sure. Before we get back to the dialogue that Harry, Ron, and Hermione have, I did just want to note this moment of great misdirection that comes up. When Ron and Hermione are really trying to give Harry any context that they can give him, they talk about the Extendable Ears that Fred and George have invented that have allowed them to overhear some things, and Ron mentions that they’ve heard them talk about something to do with guard duty, and Harry shoots back at him, “Oh, do you think they might have been talking about me?”
Andrew: [haughtily] “I am the Chosen One. They must be talking about me.”
Laura: And Ron is like, “Oh, yeah, that’s probably it.”
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: I love this because yes, they could have… they probably absolutely were talking about Harry, but we know the real thing that they’re talking about, and it’s the prophecy at the Ministry. So really, really fun moment.
Andrew: Yeah, I love that.
Laura: Well, now Fred and George joined the party. They hear Harry shouting, and they Apparate into the room. And I think this is so interesting, because in the last book, Percy was doing the exact same thing after he passed his Apparition exam…
[Eric laughs]
Laura: … and George says, “Percy only passed two weeks ago. He’s been Apparating downstairs every morning since, just to prove he can.” So I think it’s really funny that Fred and George are passing this judgment on Percy a book ago, and now they’re here doing the exact same thing. It really reminded me of how we said that this feels like the wizarding equivalent to getting your driver’s license.
Andrew: Yeah, there’s a certain freedom that comes with being able to Apparate. That said, this is a huge invasion of people’s privacy.
[Micah laughs]
Andrew: I would be so annoyed if somebody did this to me.
Eric: I mean, I bet Fred and George are just trying to make sure no one was murdered; Harry is screaming so much. [laughs]
Andrew: I mean, yeah, that could be a fun joke once, and then after that, I would get super tired of it.
Eric: Oh, yeah. No, but it’s very much “I’m going to the store; you want anything?” “You just went five minutes ago.” “Yeah, I know. I’m going again. You want anything?”
Laura: Exactly.
Andrew: Yeah. Hogwarts was onto something when they set up that “No Apparating in and out of Hogwarts” rule. That was smart.
Eric: Oh, yeah, people would pass time like crazy.
Laura: Yeah. We all thought it was a security measure, but it was really to stop the students from being obnoxious with Apparition.
Andrew: That school is not a privacy nightmare.
[Laura laughs]
[Ad break]
Micah: With Fred and George, though, the way that it comes across is that they do it in a comical sort of way. To me, with Percy, I would assume he did it with a level of arrogance, and maybe that’s just…
Eric: I mean, Percy does everything with a level of arrogance, right?
Micah: Well, that’s why it’s just… it’s not the same.
Eric: [laughs] I mean, Percy couldn’t have been doing it for a more functional reason. He needed breakfast, so he would Apparate down and grab the toast, and Apparate back up.
Micah: Fair enough.
Laura: Yeah. I mean, I also think Fred and George are actually good brothers, and I think in this moment, they’re doing this to diffuse the situation. I mean, they literally say, “Oh, Harry, we thought those were your dulcet tones that we heard.”
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: I think that they’re trying to ease the tension in the room, but they’re doing it in a very Fred and George way.
Micah: And he’s their sugar daddy. They want to make sure that he’s okay.
Andrew: [laughs] “Just checking in on you,” yeah.
Micah: He’s bankrolling them.
Laura: Oh, man.
Andrew: Yeah, he’s a long term investor.
Laura: Maybe that’s what it is. They’re like, “We gotta check up on Harry. Gotta check up on our man.”
Andrew: “Our sugar daddy.”
Micah: Sugar Daddy Harry.
Laura: Make sure he’s okay.
Andrew: Episode title!
[Laura and Micah laugh]
Laura: Harry the sugar daddy.
Andrew: New T-shirt!
[Laura laughs]
Micah: How did it take us 670 episodes to get there?
Laura: Well, speaking of Percy – we were just chatting about how obnoxious he was last book with his Apparition – believe it or not, he gets even worse here, because Percy, Harry learns, has gone no contact with his family, as the kids would say, and he’s had some really hurtful things to say to Arthur in the process in particular. He says things like he’s had to struggle with Arthur’s lousy reputation working at the Ministry, and that Arthur has no ambition, and says to his father, to his face, that that is why the Weasley family has always struggled economically. That hurts to read, especially thinking about someone saying that to Arthur.
Eric: For me, this illustrates how… we’ve often seen Ron struggle with being poor, but I think it has affected every member of the Weasley family, and this is something that wouldn’t have come out of Percy’s mouth ever if it weren’t for the special circumstances, I think, and the strain that the circumstances in the world are putting them under. But Percy had this news of getting a promotion; he wanted to be congratulated, and instead, it was met with this suspicion – rightly so, I think – that it wasn’t earned. And there’s not a safe way you can tell someone that their promotion that they’re excited about was not earned, and did Arthur probably bungle it? Maybe, but Percy is not the kind who can hear that sort of thing in the same sentence, instead of “Congratulations,” and then take it to heart. So this is just very unfortunate that these things were said, but…
Laura: Yeah, he’s too proud.
Andrew: Yeah. I can understand the pain from both sides, because like you were saying, Eric, he wants to be congratulated. He is proud of this position. He doesn’t want to be belittled, and he doesn’t want his family to pull the rug out from under his excitement. And I also think maybe the Weasleys could have treaded a little more carefully here. They know he wanted a job like this. They know he wanted to work his way up in the Ministry. Is it worth bringing this up right now? Why not just privately set up your own walls?
Micah: It’s a paranoia, though. It’s a product of the time in which they’re living, and they’re recognizing the fact that Percy didn’t have the best year last year in working for Barty Crouch, Sr. …
Eric: [laughs] Right.
Laura: No.
Micah: … so why in the world would he be promoted to work with the Minister for Magic? The idea that perhaps Fudge is trying to draw him into his inner circle so that he can have a direct line to the Weasley family actually makes a lot of sense. But I would have preferred it if, in the end, we learned that Dumbledore went to Percy and had said, “Percy, look, take this job, and I need you to almost be at odds with your family over it so that you play your role as well as you possibly can.” I think it would have done a lot more for Percy’s character. He does finally come back to the family in Deathly Hallows, but Percy is just so blind because of his own ambition in this moment that he can’t see what’s going on around him, and it reminds me of the line that we’ll hear later on in this book, that the world isn’t divided into good people and Death Eaters. The battle lines are starting to be drawn, right? Even within families. Maybe that’s a strong term to use, but it’s clear that as things progress, it’s not just good side/bad side. There’s people who are going to fill in this middle ground area in these next couple books.
Eric: Yeah, and Percy is the kind of person who genuinely believes that if you work hard, you’ll have great things happen for you. And because he’s worked hard, from his perspective, he thinks that he’s earned this, but he’s also internalized every bit of shame that the Ministry has ever thrown towards Muggle-lovers and all this other stuff. He’s inherited all these other prejudices that most ordinary people have that the Weasleys don’t, and it’s made him turn on his own family like this. It’s coming from a place of deep isolation, and Fred and George have done their part Percy’s whole life to make him feel like the odd one out in the family, so this was a long time coming, but it is very unfortunate.
Laura: Yeah. I wanted to ask y’all if you thought that we had ever seen any other examples of Percy resenting or being embarrassed by his family’s lack of money. I think what stood out to me rereading this is exactly what you just said, Eric; I think Percy’s isolation amongst his siblings is very clear. His resentment about the family’s economic status, I feel like this is the first time that’s ever been addressed. We hear Ron be embarrassed about it all the time, but I can’t recall an instance with Percy.
Eric: I mean, it might just be that Harry is Ron’s friend and they’re the same age, so the stuff Percy would have been going through would have happened at the same age, but two years earlier, before Harry was in the picture. So you’re not going to hear Percy complain about hand-me-downs, because by year five he’s used to it, or something like that.
Laura: Well, Percy doesn’t get as many hand-me-downs, I suspect, right? I think Ron, as the youngest boy in the family, probably gets the most. Well, speaking of people in Harry Potter and their complicated families, I think we can all agree that Percy really sucks here. Overall, I understand him being too proud and embarrassed to accept what his father is saying to him, but he ain’t stupid. He should be able to piece that together. Can we think of any characters other than Percy who maybe should have cut their families off in Harry Potter?
[Eric laughs]
Laura: There are some rough families in this series.
Andrew: Harry Potter himself should have cut off his Dursley family.
Eric: Yeah. Dumbledore wouldn’t let him because he’s got to be welcomed back on Privet Drive. I said Merope, but we know she tried.
Laura: She did.
Micah: Draco? Percy reminds me of Draco in how they kind of do a complete 180 by the end of the book. It’s once they’re in too deep and they recognize just how bad things are, that’s when it clicks for them.
Eric: Yeah, and it wouldn’t… nothing short of that could have, I think, turned them around. Yeah, it’s interesting. I also don’t think that what Percy said to Arthur was fair, necessarily, about not having any ambition. I think that knowing the way the Ministry is – and Fudge is going around, it’s said in this chapter, telling anyone that if they sympathize with Dumbledore, they can be fired – knowing that that’s the way they play it, I actually respect Arthur for getting a position in the Ministry where he has enough autonomy that he can skate by. If he were closer to Fudge in terms of the overall structure, he might have to start being more outspoken against Dumbledore, and that just wouldn’t serve him.
Andrew: The no ambition comment is just so mean to say to your father, too. First of all, Arthur is happy in this role. Second of all, he raised you under his roof. He was able to make it work. Third of all, they had how many kids? Eight? How many Weasley kids are there?
Eric and Micah: Seven.
Andrew: Seven? Of course, seven.
Eric: Bill, Charlie, Percy, Fred, George, Ron, Ginny.
Andrew: I mean, that takes some ambition right there.
[Everyone laughs]
Laura: But yeah, I think it can also be extended to his choice in field, because the reason that he’s not able to climb the ladder as easily at the Ministry is because his chosen field is something that the Ministry is largely not supportive of, and that is the wizarding government passing judgment on what things merit funding and exploratory research, right? And that’s what Percy is saying here. Effectively, what Percy is saying is, “Well, Fudge doesn’t think that Muggle artifacts are important, so why should you? Pick something that our society values more than what you’re doing.” And that is what Percy thinks is a lack of ambition. It’s rough. But yeah, I think Merope is a good example of someone who tried, but…
Eric: Yeah, her family was just completely toxic for her, and she knew it; she imagined better for herself. So Ariane Beth made a comment on the Discord, listening live, and said, “The other side of ‘If you work hard, you’ll have good things happen to you’ is the often unsaid ‘If your life doesn’t meet your expectations, it must be somehow your fault,’ which is not logical or true at all, but I think is what Percy is putting on Arthur.” So that’s interesting. It’s literally this idea of merit and that you actually earn your station in life, and time and again I think in real life we see that be tested, of “Actually, no, it doesn’t necessarily work out.”
Laura: Well, shifting to another Weasley sibling, Ginny, I was really pleasantly surprised to read this and be reminded of this moment. I really feel like we get to see Ginny’s personality shine here in ways that we haven’t gotten to see before. So she is currently flicking Dungbombs at the door downstairs, behind which the Order meeting is happening. She’s trying to test if the door has been Imperturbed; Tonks taught her how to do this, which really adds to the cool vibe here. And the funny part of this is that when Molly comes to get them for dinner, she asks, “Why were all these Dungbombs outside the door?” And Ginny just lies straight to Molly’s face and said that Crookshanks was playing with them.
[Eric laughs]
Laura: It literally says Ginny lied “unblushingly.”
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: She had that justification ready, because she knows her mom.
Eric: Well, this raises so many questions to me. One, why doesn’t Ginny just pick up the Dungbombs after herself? Two, why don’t they go off? You throw a Dungbomb at a door; I understand it bounces off, but it doesn’t lay on a pillow. It hits the floor. Why doesn’t it explode? Does it have to be ignited? How do Dungbombs work? I don’t know.
Laura: I don’t know.
Andrew: In terms of the Dungbomb pieces being on the floor, that house is pretty darn messy, so I actually am surprised Molly is even batting an eye at it, unless Ron and Hermione had cleaned it up previously and suddenly they’re there again. But you could have blamed this on Kreacher, too.
Laura: Well, that’s kind of what Molly does. She says, “Oh, I thought it might have been Kreacher. He keeps leaving weird things laying around.”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: It’s the perfect cover! There’s a lot of people in that house.
Eric: It reminds me of the gift that Kreacher gives Harry. What is it, a maggot-ridden something something? It’s like, “Oh, what if he thinks that’s actually a nice gift?”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Laura: Well, on a related note, Eric, Ron notes that Kreacher is a nutter whose life’s ambition is to have his head mounted on the wall like his mother.
Eric: [laughs] Funny Ron is back, everybody.
Laura: [laughs] I know.
Eric: I thoroughly enjoy Ron in this chapter. I really do.
Laura: Hermione in this moment does what Hermione does best, and says, “Hey, you’ve got to be nice to him. It’s not his fault that he’s a little odd. Can you quite blame him?” And the reality is, we don’t even know the half of it yet.
Eric: Nope.
Laura: I mean, we’re going to find out next book what makes Kreacher as weird and demented as he is. But I also want to see if we can get a foreshadowing alert every time someone is dismissive of or disgusted towards Kreacher, because I really feel like these moments stack on each other and ultimately lead to Kreacher’s betrayal of Sirius.
[Foreshadowing sound effect plays]
Laura: … so Hermione says, “And it’s not just me, Dumbledore says we should be kind to Kreacher too.”
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: And Dumbledore gives this acknowledgement to Harry at the end of the book. When Harry is raging about how Kreacher did what he did, Dumbledore is like, “Kreacher acted that way because of how he’s been treated his entire life, in large part by Sirius.” So we have this nice bookend here at the beginning and the end, really showing that Kreacher is a product of the society and the environment that he’s lived in. And I just want to ask, why does no one listen to Hermione when she has these nuggets of wisdom early? There’s this. We’re going to get the Eileen Prince connection in the next book, and Harry is going to be like, “Ah, the Half-Blood Prince couldn’t be a woman.”
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: Prince, Hermione! Prince! Purple Rain! Prince! Not a woman!
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: Pretty sure that’s a direct quote, right?
Andrew: I think in talking about house-elves previously, maybe in our Goblet of Fire discussions, Ron, and to I guess some extent Harry, and definitely other characters in the wizarding world, they’re trying to unlearn everything they know about house-elves. Hermione is trying to make them unlearn these things, and I think it’s very difficult for them to do that. I mean, they grew up – Ron did – thinking that house-elves are housekeepers, and they work for us, and that’s that. That’s just the way it is, kid.
Micah: Well, presumably Kreacher was the only living thing inside of this house when the Order showed up, so Dumbledore is probably thinking, “Let’s treat him with a little bit of respect here, because who knows what kind of information he could have?”
Laura: Why couldn’t they have had their meetings at the Room of Requirement at Hogwarts? I’m just saying.
Andrew: [laughs] They don’t want to be in Hogwarts more than they already have to. Not the adults, anyway. I think Kreacher could just potentially cause more havoc in the house, so they don’t want to rock that boat too much.
Laura: Yeah, for sure. Well, speaking of havoc in the house, we also do get to see Snape briefly. As he’s leaving this meeting, Ron notes that Snape never eats dinner with them, thank God…
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: … but he’s definitely showing up to these meetings with some really valuable intel. We can even tell that members of the Order can’t quite contain themselves but to keep murmuring amongst themselves in the hall as they’re filtering out where they see Snape’s greasy head, as they’re peering down from the top of the stairs. But I’m wondering if we had any thoughts when we were first reading this about what Snape was doing here, because I think that’s a question that’s playing on all the kids’ minds. Like, “Why is he here? Why are we trusting him to be in this organization that’s trying to fight Voldemort?”
Andrew: I hated it. I hated it.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: I didn’t have any theories, but it was just so uncomfortable seeing Snape in this place, being basically in cahoots with the trio, which is something we haven’t seen. It just made me feel uncomfortable. And in these close quarters?
Eric: I never hate Snape more than when he baits Sirius throughout the book.
Andrew and Laura: Yeah.
Eric: But otherwise, I give them the benefit of the doubt. But except for that. That’s not good.
Andrew: Laura, did you have any guesses when you were reading?
Laura: I think at this point, I really believed that Snape was on the right side of history, and it felt to me like a red herring. But then when we get into the next book, we can talk about how when I got to the end of that one, I was like, “Oh, shoot, was I wrong?”
[Everyone laughs]
Laura: Well, our girl Tonks is a little bit clumsy, and this chapter wraps with Tonks knocking over the very heavy troll leg umbrella holder, which is really weird to imagine every time I see it described. [laughs]
Andrew: I think it’s in the movie, too, isn’t it?
Laura: Is it? I don’t remember.
Andrew: No?
Micah: Well, the prop may be in the movie, but this scene isn’t, and I was going to bring up, it’s such a huge miss to not have included this. Now, somewhere… maybe I’m misremembering. Did they initially look to include Mrs. Black in the films, but maybe…? We just watched the movie. I should remember if they actually just have the curtains in front, but they never obviously open up, which would have been a very fun moment.
Andrew: Surprise! I don’t remember if we even saw the curtains.
Laura: No, I don’t feel like they touched on any of her portrait at all, or even alluded to it. But it is a huge miss, because this is a great scene. Tonks knocks this troll leg over, creates quite a din, and this is when Harry learns why it is that everybody has to be so quiet in the entry hall. These curtains fly open, and this portrait of this woman screaming just foul things at all the people in her home – her eyes are rolling, she’s drooling – and all of a sudden, Sirius Black comes out of the kitchen and yanks the curtain shut, telling her to shut up, turns to Harry, and says, “Hello, Harry, I see you’ve met my mother.” [laughs] And I remember laughing out loud at this line when I read it.
Eric: It’s great.
Andrew: Perfect ending.
Laura: Because she’s also… yeah, she’s shouting horrible things at Sirius as he’s coming to get her to shut up. I mean, like “Shame of my flesh” and “Filth” and all this other nasty stuff.
Andrew: Yeah, it’s so good. It’s such a great ending.
Micah: I did do a quick search, and it does look like there’s a shot of Kreacher walking in front of a closed portrait.
Andrew: Oh, okay.
Micah: And we do hear him muttering in the films, talking to Mrs. Black, but we never get, obviously, that official introduction. But I did also want to call out… Laura, you mentioned this severed troll’s leg stand. It is important to get a sense of what kind of house we’re in, the fact that they do have this type of piece of furniture within their home. And then it’s mentioned all of the former house-elf heads are mounted on the wall. We’re not in the nicest of places here.
Andrew and Eric: No.
Andrew: That’s gross.
Eric: Again, do you think that if they had any choice of venue, they would be here? Choose to be here? No. This is… unfortunately, for whatever reason, this is the only place they’ve got.
Andrew: And that foot did make an appearance in the movies. I don’t know if this picture I shared in our Discord is from the set tour, but they did create it for the movie, and it’s foul. And doesn’t that smell? And who wants to look at those nasty toenails? Blegh.
Micah: They’re like Voldemort toenails, except bigger.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Yeah, they are. That’s wild.
Laura: No, it is giving the same vibe as hunters having stuffed versions of exotic animals around their house and animal heads mounted to walls.
Andrew: Oh, yeah.
Micah: It shows their perspective on the larger wizarding world. But I do think we need to Max Mrs. Black for the TV show.
Laura: Yeah, we need that.
[“Max that” sound effect plays]
Eric: I would be okay if they didn’t Max Mrs. Black, if a whole series comes and goes and we don’t get it, because what point does it serve? It’s just another grim thing going on in this grim, old place.
Micah: Well, just so Sirius could say, “I see you’ve met my mother.”
Eric: “I see you’ve met my mother,” yeah.
Andrew: And then it ends on sitcom laughter. [laughs exaggeratedly] Commercial break.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: We need a Max series, How I Met Sirius’s Mother, and told backwards from this point forward.
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: See, I don’t know if we need that.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: I think we do. [laughs]
Laura: No, I think it’ll be important to include because it really sets up Sirius’s character in this story and why isolation drives him to do what he does. Isolation is such a huge theme in this book.
Lynx Line
Laura: Well, we did also turn to our Slug Club patrons over on Patreon.com/MuggleCast for our Lynx Line this week; this is our newest benefit on Patreon, where we are asking our Slug Club level patrons a question specifically tailored to that week’s episode. So this week, we asked, “Name a person in Harry Potter, or in real life or in other fiction, living or dead, who you wish you had as a living portrait in your home. Ideally, it’ll be someone much nicer than Sirius’s mom.” And we asked people to please let us know why they would want that portrait installed in their home. So I figured in host order, we could just read through these.
Andrew: Rachel said,
“Of Harry Potter characters, I’d have to say Sirius or Luna. Historical figures, probably Moses or Joan of Arc. People from my own life, my grandmother or the counselor I had in college.”
Andrew and Laura: Aw.
Andrew: Eric, Stephanie’s?
Laura: Do you want to get Stephanie’s, Eric?
Eric: Yeah, sorry. And Stephanie says,
“I love the idea of having a really good chef or baker on the wall, like Nadia from The Great British Bake Off. Put her in your kitchen and never have to google substitutions for ingredients or how to make a puff pastry.”
I think this is a great hack. I want Gordon Ramsay on my… well, maybe not.
Andrew: It’s like an Alexa.
Laura: Yeah, that sounds really stressful, Eric. Gordon Ramsay?
[Micah laughs]
Eric: I just want him to curse at me all the time. [laughs]
Laura: Do you want him to be like British cooking show Gordon Ramsay or American cooking show Gordon Ramsay?
Eric: Oh, straight up Hell’s Kitchen.
Laura: Oh, gosh. Okay.
Eric: Yeah, or Kitchen Nightmares.
Laura: Because he’s different, depending on which audience he’s performing to. [laughs]
Eric: That’s fascinating. I don’t know how to feel about that, actually. No, I’m ready for him to… because you know the meme-ified Gordon Ramsay stuff where he says really funny stuff, like “This squid is so undercooked, it’s still telling SpongeBob ‘[censored] off'”?
[Laura and Micah laugh]
Eric: Sorry for the swear. I want that on a portrait.
Micah: Jennifer says,
“Hmm… this is a tough one. I’d love to have a portrait of P!nk, because she can sing, dance, and also give some great advice.”
Andrew: That’s cool.
Eric: Oh, that’s a good hack too.
Laura: I love that. Love the idea of having a pop icon in your home, just like, “Pink, can I have some advice?”
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Eric: Aw.
Laura: Paxton says,
“I would want one of Fred Weasley! In addition to always being around to make me and others laugh, I feel like he would do his best to keep an eye on the house and protect everyone. Also, his death is one of the ones that broke my heart the most, and by having his portrait, he can live on in a way.”
Andrew: Jeff said,
“I would choose my Great Aunt Harriet, who passed away in 2018 at the age of 97. She was 67 years older than me, but I was closer to her than anybody else in my family; we shared a love of books, including Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings.”
Nice answer, Jeff.
Laura: That’s so lovely.
Eric: Yeah, I love that. Breann says,
“Harry Potter-related… Minerva McGonagall, I love how real she is about everything. Plus, she’s super knowledgeable, and I feel like she could give a great pep talk if needed. For fun, Dave Matthews. The man can sing, play the guitar, and say the most off the wall things that will certainly make you laugh. In-home concerts? Yes, please. Dave’s commentary on the craziness of today’s world? Yes, please.”
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: I can actually do that for you, Breann. Here we go; here’s my Dave Matthews impression. [imitates Dave Matthews singing]
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: There you go.
Laura: It’s the same thing.
Andrew: Yeah!
Eric: Andrew, would you have Bruce?
Andrew: I would have you three, because I want you three in my lives more.
Eric: Ohh!
Laura: Aww.
Eric: Infinite MuggleCasts! Oh, I love that.
Micah: You don’t edit us enough?
[Andrew and Micah laugh]
Laura: Are you sure you wouldn’t put curtains in front of all of us just to make us shut up sometimes? [laughs]
Andrew: Well, and I think that’s one part of this question that would have been fun, too, for listeners. Like, “And you do have a curtain, so if you want Gordon Ramsay in your house, that’s nice, but you can shut him off, so no worries. He won’t get too… if he gets too annoying, you can shut him up.”
Micah: Leah says,
“Luna. I feel like she always has something interesting to say. She’d have a unique commentary to break up mundane day-to-day tasks. Remember her Quidditch commentary? Imagine that playing while doing chores; she would add humor and interest to everything.”
Laura: Agreed. Actually, I feel like if I had to pick a Harry Potter character, I would pick Luna as well. I’m still thinking about who I would want as a real life person.
Eric: I would pick Dumbledore. Oh, sorry to interrupt, but I would pick Dumbledore, and then during a reread, I would look up and I’d go, “Are you serious with this?”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: And he’d have to defend himself.
Laura: You would confront him with the receipts.
Eric: Oh, oh, yeah.
Laura: Be like, “Sir, where were you?”
Eric: “Sir,” yeah.
Laura: Amy said,
“Personally, I’d love to have my mom on hand for her great wisdom and compassion. But seriously, since you said we can choose people who are alive, how cool would it be to have our four favorite hosts on hand for conversation and laughs?”
Eric: There it is.
Laura: Amy, that’s so sweet.
Andrew: Good answer, Amy. Free month of Patreon for you.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Laura: You already let us into your house once a week with new episodes!
Andrew: That’s a good point.
Laura: So this is quite an honor. [laughs]
Andrew: Zachary said,
“I would love to have a portrait of George Carlin; his commentary on life today would be unimaginable. I would also love a portrait of my Pop; to this day, he’s been all of his grandkids’ number one fan, and continues to help me with daily advice on life and fatherhood and parenting in general.”
Good answer.
Eric: That’s awesome. Julianne says,
“I’ll take a scrolling portrait (like a digital picture frame) with all my book boyfriends, please. We can start with Charlie Weasley, but if we can expand to all fantasy books, I’d like to add Xaden Riorson, Kingfisher, and Cassian.”
Okay.
Laura: [laughs] Yep. Yeah, I think the book boyfriends is a good call. I agree on some of this.
Eric: That’s really… that’s interesting.
Laura: Greta has a very wholesome one. She says,
“Molly Weasley. She’d be the closest equivalent to Alexa when it comes to home-related questions and spells, and she could give you advice on your choice of outfit for the day or tell you what to bring to a dinner party.”
Love that.
Andrew: Carly said,
“Leslie Jordan. He was an absolute icon and amazing human being; I would love to hear his commentary on a daily basis.”
Eric: Aw. Noelle says,
“Phineas Nigellus Black for sure. He’s got portraits in plenty of places I’d want to spy on, and he’d probably yell at me if I got distracted while working. Having portraits of my own family up, on the other hand… I can relate to poor Sirius in not appreciating that.”
Laura: Aww. [laughs]
Eric: Oh, wow. But yeah, somebody who can hassle you whenever you begin to meander and not do your work would be wild. That’s a wild accountability buddy.
Micah: Yeah. Sara says,
“In real life, I’d want my dad or grandma’s portrait. A useful portrait would be a doctor or nurse to help give you advice. And then in the wizarding world, I’d also like a healer, or maybe someone like McGonagall or Dumbledore for life advice.”
Laura: I feel like having a doctor as a portrait in my house, it would be like WebMD on steroids. My health paranoia would reach all new levels.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Laura: I’d constantly be going to the doctor portrait and being like, “I don’t know; my pinky feels weird. What do you think it means?” It’d be terrible.
Andrew: “You have three days to live.”
[Laura laughs]
Eric: Yeah, oh my God. Still, I think we’ve cracked free healthcare on this episode.
Andrew: If they can operate on you and prescribe medication and all that, yeah.
Eric: Oh, well, I guess… okay, I guess not.
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: It’s the V1. It’s the V1.
Andrew: Free Telehealth.
Eric: Yeah, it’s the V1. Maybe a therapist. Maybe my therapist. I’ll get a portrait made of my therapist.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Laura: Catherine says, “I mean, I wouldn’t mind a portrait of Henry Cavill up for perpetuity…”
Andrew: Hey now.
Laura: Yeah, good taste, Catherine.
Andrew: Hannah said,
“Wow, where to start? Do you want knowledge, entertainment, or memory? Right now, I would have to say one of my favorite musical artists, Josh Groban, so he can sing and I would never need a radio or Spotify playlist again.”
Eric: Jen says,
“I would love to have my Nana’s portrait in my house. I was very close to her growing up. She passed a number of years ago, and I would love to get to hear her voice and see her smile again. She also passed before I had my kids, so I’d love her to meet them, albeit in portrait form.”
Andrew and Laura: Aww.
Eric: I agree with that. That’s really sweet.
Laura: That’s a really beautiful sentiment. And to really bring us home here, Barry says,
“Honestly, none. I have enough smart home devices watching me; I don’t need a portrait that can share its opinions on my life choices.”
Oh man, imagine if Google and Alexa could talk independently.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
MVP of the Week
Laura: All right, and replacing our old MVP of the Week segment, we also are customizing these pick a character of the week segments to something specific to the chapter. And I think we can all agree that Percy Weasley is the worst Weasley, but I want to give y’all a challenge and basically make this easy for myself, so I’m asking y’all, who’s the worst Weasley? Except I already picked Percy, so you have to pick someone else.
Eric: Great. Okay.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: I’m going to give it to the Weasley twins. I’m putting them together, because spying is wrong.
Eric: Oh my God, you hypocrite.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: Okay, I’m going to… you know what? Mine is not better. I’m going to give mine to Arthur for not doing more to get the family some money.
Laura: Oof.
Eric: Clearly, they resent you for it. Gosh.
Micah: I’m going with Molly triple down here. Stop the mollycoddling of these kids.
Eric: Oh my…
Micah: Harry is 15 years old. He was bar mitzvah’ed two years ago. He’s a grown man in the eyes of the wizarding community. Enough is enough.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Micah: He’s faced more than you ever hoped to.
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: And Molly is like, “Um, my brothers were killed in the last war?” [laughs]
Andrew: Aw. Listeners, if you have any feedback about today’s discussion, you can contact us by emailing or sending a voice memo that’s recorded on your phone to MuggleCast@gmail.com. And we have a bit of news: Our traditional phone number is now being retired, in part because…
Eric: Did you not pay the bill? Did we forget?
Andrew: We may have forgotten to renew it, and Google said, “You know what? We’re not giving it to you, and you can’t have it back.” But you know what? It’s for the best, because the phone calls are not very good quality.
Micah: No.
Andrew: We still have access to all the voicemails, by the way, so if you have called in, we have had them; we do listen to them. But the voice… let’s enter 2024 fully. Voice Memos only. Peace and love.
[Eric laughs]
Micah: You know what it is, too, is just it’s really obnoxious to keep the line going. In theory, it sounds like it’s easy, right? You just have to remember to make a call from it or send a text message. But who’s paying attention to that? Clearly, not me.
Andrew: [laughs] Yeah, clearly not you! That’s why we lost it! And honestly, it was just fun to say, “1-920-3-MUGGLE.” Like, it’s cool “Muggle” was in the phone number.
Eric: It will live on.
Laura: Yeah. Pour one out.
Andrew: Yes.
Eric: We’ve long said that voice memos are preferred, emailed to MuggleCast@gmail.com, and that’s been the case; the quality is much better. So think of it as a real attempt at quality improvement.
Laura: So I wonder what’s going to happen, though, because you know some people still have this number saved…
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: … so when this number goes to someone else, are they going to get random phone calls from people talking about Harry Potter?
Micah: I hope so.
Eric: Yeah, I’m going to become that person’s best friend.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: I’m going to call right now. Oh, it just immediately… oh, it says “User busy” when you try to call it right now.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: Who’s tying up our line?
Andrew: Yeah, immediate “Doo-doo-doo.” Google’s just put it on lockdown; it’s going to go to some phone number graveyard. Well, anyway, next week we will discuss Order of the Phoenix Chapter 5, “The Order of the Phoenix”! This book’s namesake.
Quizzitch
Andrew: And now it’s time for everybody’s favorite trivia show – Google will never take this away from us – Quizzitch!
[Quizzitch music plays]
Eric: Last week’s question: What well-kept lawn in London has been home to a zebra, an elephant, and a helicopter landing pad? The correct answer was the lawn at Buckingham Palace, of course! Fun factoids about that. And 55% of people said they didn’t look up the correct answer that they got correct, and the winners are as follows: Buckbeak waiting for Harry to come upstairs and say hi… aw, okay. Hi to my Ravenclaw husband; Horton Hears a Helicopter; I would tell you, but Dumbledore made me swear not to…
[Laura laughs]
Eric: … Kelsey; Merlin’s missing buttock; The sniffler that got loose in Buckingham Palace; and Yoshie. And congrats to everyone that submitted. And here is – I’m particularly proud of this next one – next week’s question: In honor of the portrait of Walburga Black, what famous artist and sculptor was given an exclusive license in 2014 to use a material known as Blackest Black? Walburga would be very happy with this person. And please submit your answer to us on the Quizzitch form located on the MuggleCast website, MuggleCast.com/Quizzitch. And also, you’re able to find it if you’re on the MuggleCast website, checking out transcripts or anything else, by clicking “Quizzitch” from the main nav.
Andrew: This show is brought to you by Muggles like you, dear listener. We are as independent as Percy is isolated from the rest of his family in this chapter…
Eric and Laura: Oooh.
Andrew: … so your financial support is of the utmost importance. In fact, listener support is the only reason we’ve been able to podcast for 19 years and counting, and we now have three great ways to help us out. If you’re an Apple Podcasts user, subscribe to MuggleCast Gold, which gets you instant access to ad-free and early releases of MuggleCast, plus two bonus MuggleCast installments every month. For even more benefits, visit Patreon.com/MuggleCast. You’ll get all the benefits of MuggleCast Gold, plus livestreams, yearly stickers, Lynx Line participation, a physical gift, a video message from one of the four of us made just for you, access to our private Facebook and Discord groups, and more. And then number three, visit MuggleCastMerch.com for all of our brand new merchandise. Laura, earlier in the recording, we had a request. LegalizeGillyweed wondered if we should start selling your pants. And for anybody who doesn’t know, who’s probably really alarmed right now…
Eric: Oh my God.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: … it was a running joke about your pants way back in the day.
Laura: Yeah, and I don’t think that you’ve said anything to assuage people’s concerns.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: Well, to make it sound less random.
Laura: Yeah, no. TLDR, y’all, the story is I left a pair of my pants in our hotel room in Los Angeles when we were there for the 2006 Podcast Awards. Eric very kindly carried them home and mailed them back to me, and during a much earlier episode of MuggleCast, in the middle of the recording, Eric just goes, “Laura, did you get your pants?”
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: You know, sometimes these thoughts come to me and they’re fleeting, and I gotta check.
Micah: You gotta check it off the list; otherwise…
Eric: You gotta do it. Micah, thank you for understanding.
Micah: Yes.
Andrew: We will also start selling a MuggleCast notepad where people can put their thoughts down and then share these thoughts when the time is right!
[Laura laughs]
Eric: Oh, I get it. Y’all are going to go in on a Christmas gift for me, and it’s going to be that notepad to all of my…
Andrew and Micah: Thoughts.
Eric: Yeah, okay.
Andrew: Now Laura, I mean, we can sell pants. I’m looking at the options right now. We got some… we have choices.
Eric: Let’s just say “Laura’s” on them.
Andrew: “Laura’s pants,” I think it should…
Eric: Custom-made Laura’s pants.
Laura: [laughs] I mean, listen, I’m all about the marketing push, but I will say, if I recall correctly, the particular pants in question were Gaucho pants. They were very popular at the time, and not to say that they’re an unfortunate fashion choice in general; I’ll just say they were an unfortunate fashion choice for me, so I don’t know if I recommend us doing an exact replica pant.
Andrew: Of course, of course.
Laura: Is there something more stylish? [laughs]
Eric: Do you still have them?
Laura: No.
[Laura and Micah laugh]
Andrew: Some joggers, maybe. Joggers, leggings…
Laura: Honestly, joggers, leggings, or sweats. Those are all me vibes.
Andrew: Perfect. Okay.
Laura: Comfy pants.
Andrew: And we’ll put “Laura’s pants” down the side, and then we’ll put a picture of your face on the backside?
Laura: Oh, no, don’t do that. [laughs]
Andrew: Okay, never mind.
Laura: I don’t want…
Andrew: But I think it’d be awesome if it said “Laura’s pants” down the side…
Eric: Yeah, down the side. Absolutely.
Andrew: … and then the mic bolt on the other side.
Laura: Yeah, I’m fine with that. I’ll be very surprised if anyone buys a pair, but let’s just see what happens.
Andrew: You see the people in the Discord? They’re buying it.
[Laura laughs]
Micah: LegalizeGillyweed is at least one customer for you right there.
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: Wow. I really appreciate the support.
Andrew: We’ll get working on this, y’all. Stay tuned.
Eric: Yeah, we’re on it.
Andrew: This is very exciting. All right, so those are the three ways to help us out.
[Everyone laugh]
Andrew: Buying Laura’s pants is priority number one. If you enjoy the show and think other Muggles would, too, tell a friend about the show, and leave a five star review in your favorite podcast app. We couldn’t do this without you all, so thank you so much for your support and your listenership. That does it for this week’s episode of the show. Thanks, everybody, for listening. I’m Andrew.
Eric: I’m Eric.
Micah: I’m Micah.
Laura: And I’m Laura.
Andrew: Bye, everyone.
Laura and Micah: Bye.