Transcript for MuggleCast Episode #688, Mall Santa Sorting Hat (OOTP Chapter 11, The Sorting Hat’s New Song)
Show Intro
[Show music plays]
Micah Tannenbaum: For 20 years and counting, welcome to MuggleCast, your weekly ride into the Wizarding World fandom. I’m Micah.
Eric Scull: I’m Eric.
Laura Tee: And I’m Laura.
Eric: Why do I feel like Fred and George after trying the Aging Potion all of a sudden?
[Laura and Micah laugh]
Eric: Long gray beard as soon as Micah said, “It’s our 20th year of podcasting!”
Micah: And Andrew is just too young and good-looking to be here.
Eric: I know. He was afraid of feeling old, so he’s not here, but by next week, I think we’ll convince him to join us on the train again.
Laura: Oh. See, I thought he wasn’t here because this was past his bedtime now. Maybe he is too old. You ever think about that?
Eric: Oh!
Micah: Oooh.
Eric: There are many reasons. But needless to say, our fearless leader will return next week.
Micah: Yes, so we will do our best in his absence. And just a couple quick announcements to start off 2025: With us Flooing into a new decade for our show, we could really use your support while we go chapter by chapter through the Harry Potter books and cover any and all news concerning the Harry Potter TV show. So visit Patreon.com/MuggleCast to pledge and enjoy instant access to lots of great benefits, including – I wasn’t ready for that…
[Eric laughs]
Micah: … bonus MuggleCast, which we have a new one which we will be recording right after our episode tonight – speaking of the new year – all about New Year’s resolutions, and why don’t they celebrate New Year’s in the wizarding world? At least, as far as we know; we never hear about it.
Eric: It’s true.
Laura: They don’t make resolutions. They’re not trying to be better.
Eric: [laughs] I can think of a few characters who absolutely do not do resolutions. Dumbledore, a few others…
Micah: Makes sense. I was going to say Hogwarts just is beyond help when it comes to security, so they don’t make any resolutions.
Eric: That’s right.
Micah: But we do two of those every month for our patrons, and they’re always a lot of fun. Lets us unwind a little bit. Sometimes we get to do topics and we can say things because it’s beyond a paywall.
Eric: That’s Micah’s favorite thing about it.
Micah: It really is. It’s really all about me, bonus MuggleCast, and my ability to be totally unfiltered 100% of the time. But with that said, let’s get back into Chapter by Chapter. It’s been a couple weeks because…
Eric: It’s been a year!
Micah: A year?
Eric: We haven’t done Chapter by Chapter in a year! A calendar year.
Micah: So we will kick things off with Order of the Phoenix Chapter 11, “The Sorting Hat’s New Song.” And Laura, are you going to sing the Sorting Hat’s new song for us?
Laura: Singing is not one of my talents, so no.
Micah: Karaoke?
Laura: Nah.
Micah: Not even close?
Laura: You really don’t want it. I promise you.
Micah: What about chapter analysis?
Laura: I can do that for you, yeah.
Micah: Okay. [laughs]
Eric: So I love that we’re starting a new year of Hogwarts and starting a new year on the show as well.
Laura: Right?
Chapter by Chapter: Time-Turner
Eric: Just for the listeners who might be curious, we last discussed this chapter, Chapter 11, “Sorting Hat’s New Song,” nearly 250 episodes ago! I’m just going to keep saying things that make us feel old. That was on MuggleCast number 446, titled “Going Rogue,” which debuted on December 16, 2019. And here is… we have everyone’s new favorite segment for the show, the MuggleCast Time-Turner segment for that chapter.
[Ticking sound]
Dumbledore: Three turns should do it, I think. Good luck.
Ron: What the…?
[Bell dings]
[Whooshing sound]
Robotic voice: Episode 446.
Micah: I liked what Nearly Headless Nick said about the hat being able to pick up things because it sits in Dumbledore’s office. So I wonder if prior to each year, does Dumbledore just sit down with the hat and be like, “Hey, look, this is how it’s going to go this year, and make sure you hit these points, and I’ll put you on a really comfy pillow for the rest of the year.”
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: “And I’ll brush you.”
Micah: “I’ll wash you.”
Andrew: “I’ll keep the office at your desired temperature.”
Eric: Oh my God. [laughs]
Andrew: “I’ll buy you another hat that you can hang out with.”
[Eric and Micah laugh]
Micah: So you can make baby skull caps or something like that.
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: When two hats love each other…
[Whooshing sound]
[Ticking sound]
Dumbledore: Mysterious thing, time.
[Bell dings]
Eric: Fun talk about a family of hats.
Chapter by Chapter: Main Discussion
Laura: Well, unfortunately, we are going to dive into our chapter with a maybe not so fun talk about Thestrals. I was wondering if I could get one of you to read this excerpt here at the beginning of the chapter.
Eric: Sure. “Harry had once before had the experience of seeing something that Ron could not, but that had been a reflection in a mirror, something much more insubstantial than a hundred very solid-looking beasts strong enough to pull a fleet of carriages.”
Laura: It is interesting that Harry, in this moment, feels that the Mirror of Erised was insubstantial by comparison, because we have to remember what he was seeing in the mirror: He was seeing his dead family members, in particular his parents. And I thought this was a nice connecting the threads moment because death is a theme in both of these areas, with Thestrals and the Mirror of Erised. But in both cases, even though Ron can see the Mirror of Erised, he can’t see what Harry sees, so it’s not quite that Harry has never experienced this before; it’s just that Ron, at least, knew the Mirror of Erised existed.
Eric: Yeah. See, it’s interesting, Laura, because I read this a slightly different way in that Harry sees the Thestrals; he’s like, “These are solid-looking. They’re pulling a hundred carriages.” I think I agree that, reading it back right now, it reads like he’s saying, “Man, Ron couldn’t see the mirror, but that was a mirror. This is a hundred horse-like beings!”
Laura: Right.
Eric: But for me, I thought for a minute there that it could just be that Harry realizes something is pulling the carriages. This gives some level of explanation to what wasn’t there. It’s never a good feeling when you can see something someone else can’t, but something’s pulling the carriages; it’s solid. He finally has a piece of the puzzle that others don’t see. But unfortunately, it’s not going to get any better for him, because I’m thinking of the end of this book – here’s to connect the thread – with the veil and the voices that he hears behind it that no one else hears. [laughs] Except maybe Luna.
Micah: Luna.
Laura: And Ginny, right?
Eric: Oh, yeah.
Micah: I think this is a bit of a bad comparison on Harry’s part, though, because if I were him, I would liken it to hearing the Basilisk in Chamber of Secrets, right? That was something that nobody else could hear.
Eric: [laughs] “Here, Harry, here’s four other examples of when you were the only one that experienced something, and your friends couldn’t keep up.” But yeah, it’s a good point.
Laura: Well, once we’re on the platform, we find ourselves in a little bit of an awkward situation with our new friend Luna, because the trio very quickly notices that Hagrid is not on the platform collecting first years to go across the lake; it’s Professor Grubbly-Plank. They’re very concerned, of course, about where Hagrid is, and Luna opines that, “Hey, maybe, hopefully he’s left. He’s a terrible teacher.”
[Eric laughs]
Laura: And when Harry and Ron round on her, she’s like, “Oh, I’m kind of surprised that you like him. He’s kind of a joke in Ravenclaw.” So I’m just imagining the Ravenclaws sitting around the common room being petty as hell about Hagrid. [laughs]
Eric: This is the Ravenclaw common room tonight once news spreads.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: It’s funny because as much as this is shots fired, and the characters have to go into defense mode for their friend Hagrid, notably Harry and Ron… and Ginny, for some reason. Hermione is caught in the middle and doesn’t immediately leap to Hagrid’s defense. That said, Luna brings up, I think, a valuable point, which is that if the Ravenclaws, the entire House, consider Hagrid a joke, it’s probably because he’s not a very good teacher. Harry and Ron aren’t really arguing that fact. He’s their friend, but here’s a House that dedicates itself to wisdom and knowledge and learning, and I think that Luna’s admission here – maybe tactless or ill-informed, or she didn’t read the room first before she said – is ultimately correct and fair. And if they’re not getting an education from this teacher, it’s a waste of their time, and frankly, I feel bad for all the Ravenclaws that have had to have years now of Hagrid’s teaching.
Micah: Wow. Well, standing up for your friends is a theme that we see in this chapter; we see it a little bit later on when both Ron and Neville stand up for Harry. But I do agree with you, Eric; the one thing I’ll say, though, is I wonder how many teachers rise to the level of Ravenclaw approval.
Laura: Yeah, seems like they’re a tough crowd.
Eric: [laughs] They should all rise to the level of Ravenclaw approval! Get specific teachers in. Have it be like the AP class you elected for and never took; I’m speaking about myself.
[Micah laughs]
Eric: But there were at least teachers. They made that available to our student body. It’s a good question because I don’t think – and this will go along with the theme of this chapter that we’re going to be discussing – a lot of these teachers wouldn’t measure up, to your point.
Micah: But I think more importantly, it’s meant to build on Luna’s character, the character that we were introduced to on the train. She doesn’t have a filter. She speaks her mind, and in this case, she’s right, and it’s nice to get a perspective, too, from a totally different House on somebody like Hagrid.
Eric: Yeah. Well, that’s because for the first time, too, I get that perspective, and I’m like, “Oh, she’s right.” All of Ravenclaw really must think Hagrid is a joke. Slytherin would say it to his face and make fun of him and make him trip up, but Ravenclaw, I think, at the end of the day doesn’t need to be mean about it; they just really want education that isn’t being gotten. I’m thinking of all the lessons where Hagrid didn’t even know what the Skrewts wanted, so he just made everybody kind of figure it out; he’s learning at the same time they are. That is a joke, ultimately, and it’s upsetting. What they should have done… and Grubbly-Plank, too, just gets a whirlwind of hate, and Harry is always glaring at her, [laughs] either outright interrupting her classes to go “Where’s Hagrid?” all the time. What they should do is have Grubbly-Plank be the professional, full-time Care of Magical Creatures teacher, maybe even years two through seven, and then let Hagrid do the first year thing since he’s already got a rapport with the first years for carting them across the lake every year. That should be something that Hagrid has, because he also has groundskeeping duties.
Laura: Yeah. I almost wonder in this moment, in this whole exchange where Hermione is kind of begrudgingly agreeing with Luna, I wonder if she has this moment of discomfort where she’s thinking, “Gosh, this girl seems like a kook,” but then she says something she agrees with.
Micah: Yeah. “Actually…”
[Eric laughs]
Laura: So I wonder if it’s a double-layered uncertainty because she knows she’s going to be in the doghouse with Harry and Ron, but she’s also like, “Well, if she thinks that… I don’t know.” I really like Luna as a foil to Hermione, because Hermione can be very rigid and she misses a lot sometimes because of that.
Micah: Yeah, she’s a breath of fresh air, especially in this book. She is the total counter-balance to Umbridge.
Laura: Yeah, well, I was going to say, speaking of someone who is not a breath of fresh air, we will get to her shortly. But we’re going to jump into an analysis of the Sorting Hat’s song. No, I will not be singing it; however, if one of the two of you would like to sing it, by all means, I will not stop you. But there are so many interesting tidbits in this song that not only have to do with the warning that the hat is trying to give, but with the history of Hogwarts and its founders, and we just don’t get a ton of that in the series, so stuff like this is a real treat. Details like the fact that Gryffindor and Slytherin were besties, apparently, which is really hard to imagine.
Eric: Is it?
Laura: Kinda. Especially… I mean, I understand that the representations we get of the founders are… I feel like in a lot of ways they’re two-dimensional, right? It’s like, Slytherin: racist, bad. Gryffindor: brave, sword. Ravenclaw: smart.
Eric: I’m sure they’ve made the Sorting Hat edit itself for time before in years past, too, so you do get…
Micah: And how about Hufflepuff, Laura? Didn’t hear what you were going to characterize them as.
Laura: I mean, Hufflepuff: nice. [laughs]
Eric: Patient, nice, sweet…
Laura: Particularly good finders, from what I hear.
Eric: I agree.
Laura: Yeah, but I just think it’s interesting, especially given the way this song goes. I mean, ultimately, we learn about how the founders… well, three of the four founders had very specific ideas of who they thought warranted being in their Houses. So of course, Slytherin wanted all the pure-bloods, Gryffindor wanted the bravest of the brave, Ravenclaw wanted the most intelligent, and Hufflepuff said, “You know what? I think everyone deserves to learn,” which I feel like must have objectively made her the best teacher, hands down.
Micah: That was just convenient for the writer, though, too, because after you have the first three, you have to have somebody take the rest. No?
Laura: Yeah, I guess.
Eric: Well, either that or you offload… you delegate to people who are less than qualified than the founders. I agree, this song is good for many reasons. Previously, I think we’ve heard that the four founders were all friends with each other, but this one pairs them off. This one says Gryffindor and Slytherin were the ones that were closest, and Hufflepuff and Ravenclaw were the others that were closest. So I do think there are similarities between Slytherin and Gryffindor; I think that maybe those personality types are closer together than we typically acknowledge. So that also makes Slytherin’s falling out that much more harrowing, I think, for Gryffindor, which is after all, the main House, main character of the books. [laughs]
Laura: Right. Well, the hat, of course, goes into that falling out, and we know the history here, right? Slytherin leaves, and then, what, 300 years later, the consequences rear their ugly head. But the hat also acknowledges what its primary function is, but expresses some doubt about that function. It says, “Hey, I know my only job – literally my only job – is to Sort you all into four different Houses, to separate you, but sometimes I worry that that’s the wrong thing to do, and that that is breeding and creating discord among you all that need not be.”
Micah: Right. My man wants a job change; that’s what it sounds like to me.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: Yeah, it’s in crisis. It’s having a career crisis. It’s time to get on LinkedIn and start putting some feelers out and find a job that fits and better aligns with its values.
Micah: Totally.
Laura: Do you think that’s why it held the sword of Gryffindor towards the end of the second year?
Micah: Like ransom?
Laura: Well, no, for Harry. Didn’t he pull the sword of Gryffindor out of it?
Eric: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s trying to see what else it might be good at.
Laura: Yeah. He was like, “Hey, Albus, can I just…? I’ve been bored. I haven’t done anything since September. Can you give me something? Throw me a bone?” And Dumbledore was like, “I’ve got a sword.”
[Eric and Micah laugh]
Eric: Probably. Yeah, but it’s interesting because Harry… to your point, Laura, it’s rare that we get this much insight into the founders, and they are kind of two-dimensional. It’s bad enough that Harry misses Sorting a couple of years. This is maybe the third time he’s seen it, and it’s his fifth year at Hogwarts out of six. Let’s be real. So I think that that’s a reason why we don’t get it often, but also we’re told that this is maybe not unique for the Sorting Hat to do, but nevertheless is the most recent time in recent memory that it’s strayed from its straight and narrow path. But you wouldn’t get this kind of commentary, this contemplative “I question whether I should split you all up” commentary, if it wasn’t 100% necessary, and I think there’s some level of, I guess, trust in that from the student body.
Micah: Do you think Dumbledore is a hat whisperer, and these are actually Dumbledore’s thoughts that are coming through?
Eric: Maybe. I think Dumbledore has been contemplative in that same exact way; the “Sometimes I think we Sort too soon” line has those same echoes.
Micah: The one thing that came to mind for me, though… and you were talking about how Harry hasn’t really been present at all of the Sortings. I believe this is the last Sorting that we get in this series, and so this is really the Sorting Hat’s parting words to the school. Now, there’s no real way unless it’s prophetic in some capacity to know what’s to come in Deathly Hallows, but it seems like it does have some sentience to it, that it does pick up on things beyond just what maybe it overhears in Dumbledore’s office, that it can actually interpret those things. And this is a warning, and it’s important for us as readers because it’s basically laying out what it thinks is important for what’s to come in the next two books.
Eric: And let’s also add that although he only has one job, each year it gets to see inside the minds of young students, and I think that what it sees in their minds is talent always, “Of course, oh my goodness, yes,” but that if honed to work together, you could be stronger. I like that the hat sees everything it sees, and its one perhaps parting message, like you said, Micah, is “Get along. Figure out how you can work together, despite the fact that I’m splitting you all up.” And yeah, that message is 100% relevant and 100% evergreen.
Laura: Yeah, great points. I do want to point out we are getting a correction in the Discord. So the hat did belong to Godric Gryffindor, so that is why Harry was able to pull the sword of Gryffindor out of it. So just wanted to thank Moony Lupin, Legalize Gillyweed… but then beyond that, Frank is asking in the Discord, “So is it Godric’s voice that we hear when the hat speaks?”
Eric: I like to think it’s its own voice. I think… I don’t want to rob the hat of autonomy. I think it’s impressive that the founders made the hat its own sentient being; I think that’s extremely impressive, and if we start to say it’s Godric’s voice, then we kind of make the hat less than its own thing.
Laura: Yeah. I had a question about the sentience, or the free will, if you think free will is a thing; I know that has been a debate that has come up on the show before with relation to the Sorting Hat. But I do think it’s interesting that the Sorting Hat is able to do things like break from tradition to give warnings, that it is also able to take choice into account when it’s Sorting the students, because I have a feeling that three out of the original four founders would not have taken choice into account.
Eric: That’s interesting!
Laura: Right? And so the Sorting Hat is like, “Eh, you’re good. I’ll put you where you want to go.” But I just don’t see Godric Gryffindor or Salazar Slytherin having someone come to them who doesn’t meet their standards for their House, and saying, “Hey, I really want to be in Slytherin; will you let me in?” I don’t see that happening, so it’s interesting.
Eric: Yeah, maybe it was a concession because the Sorting Hat wasn’t there since day one Sorting the Houses; the Sorting Hat was put in charge after the founders stopped doing it themselves. And so maybe a concession that each of them made after Slytherin left was to come up with a list of their values, three or four values, ones that we hear the hat sing about all this time, and it would use those values to then ascribe a House to people. So rather than strictly going by who’s the most studious or any of that – who’s the bravest, who’s the most cunning – and really just looked at… we’ve questioned before, with Hermione being in Gryffindor and not Ravenclaw, what does she value more? Is it the learning, or is it the friendship aspect and bravery and standing up for what you believe in? So it’s kind of wishy-washy there.
Micah: I do like what Moony Lupin said about the Sorting Hat. “It’s like the voice of Gryffindor, mind of Ravenclaw, gentleness of Hufflepuff, and the cut-throatness of Slytherin.”
Eric: I love that.
Laura: Yeah. The Slytherin piece is when the hat barely touches someone’s head, and is like, “Oh no, get me off here. You can go in Slytherin. Bye.”
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: Yeah, yeah. Oh, man. It’s like sitting on Santa’s lap but he’s been there for three hours without a break, and he’s just like, “What do you want? Okay, bye, get out of here.”
Laura: [laughs] Well, we’re going to get out of here for just a moment for a quick ad break, but then we’ll be right back to finish chatting about the Sorting Hat’s new song.
[Ad break]
Laura: And we’re back, and we talked about this a little bit before the break, but we know it’s not the first time that the Sorting Hat has used the song to give a warning, because Nearly Headless Nick confirms this. Unfortunately, we never are rewarded with the answer to the question, “Well, what else did it warn us about?” First of all, because he’s about to tell them and Professor McGonagall rudely interrupts him by staring daggers at him to shut the heck up. But then two, Ron is being kind of insensitive towards Nick when asking the question, and chewing with his mouth full ultimately offends Nick, and he takes off. But I was wondering, because we do have some knowledge of wizarding world history, are there any specific events we can think of where the hat might have given a warning? I’m thinking about the goblin rebellion has to be one, for example.
Eric: Brexit is a more modern one it would have spotted.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: I think probably same message, “Get along.” Maybe the Titanic sinking; we know Credence nearly died on that.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: I think there would have been a few times, yeah, for sure. But it’s literally… to question… not to go back to the hat’s sentience, but it’s come up with a thousand different songs in its tenure. It’s almost as prolific as Taylor Swift. That’s how impressive it is.
Laura: Does it leave tons of easter eggs that the students obsess over all year to try and predict what the next song is going to be or when it’s going to be dropped?
Eric: Goodness.
Laura: Because I mean, that’s what it needs to reach that Swiftie level, is my understanding.
Micah: I just love that you worked Taylor Swift into the SEO so that…
[Laura laughs]
Eric: She keeps putting out more music.
Micah: If we can do that once per episode for this year, I think we’ll be in really great shape.
Eric: Okay, I’m going to mention Chappell next week.
Micah: Now, to that point, though, Eric, I would like to advocate then for the Sorting Hat to be in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
Eric: Well, I said it made a thousand songs; it doesn’t mean any of them were commercially successful.
Micah: Good? [laughs] I mean, a thousand, though…
Eric: Yeah, even if it’s low odds, a low percentage, I bet some of them are bops. I think the first… the one we see in Harry’s first year is an absolute banger.
Micah: Who do you think would induct the Sorting Hat into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame?
Eric: The ghost of Godric Gryffindor. It’d be like, “When I knew you, you were just my hat, and then I left, left you in charge, and look at where you’ve come.”
Laura: I don’t know. I feel like Iggy Pop is fun enough that he would do it.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Laura: Right? He would do it.
Eric: Yeah. Or Slash, on a whim.
Laura: Yeah. Well, the Sorting Hat dropped its warning at a very opportune moment, because everyone has their feast, enjoys filling their bellies after a long day on the Hogwarts Express, and Dumbledore stands up to give his speech but he’s quickly interrupted just a couple of minutes in by Umbridge with that insufferable “Hem-hem” that we all hate to hear, so prepare for that for the rest of this edition of Chapter by Chapter. And she also gave a speech that can be deeply analyzed, and Hermione seems to be the only one who’s paying enough attention to do it. Fortunately for Harry and Ron, she’s able to explain everything to them.
Eric: She’s on fire. It’s kind of like she’s their ChatGPT summary of some of this; you can just copy and paste long bits of info. But it seems like most the school… this isn’t just in their immediate circle; most of the school is also struggling. I think Ernie Mac’s eyes are glazed over too.
Laura: Yeah, and that’s by design, right? I mean, her entire speech is double speak, like, “Progress for progress’s sake ought to be prohibited.” There’s so much of what she says that’s just contradictory word salad, and that’s by design. It was intended to be intentionally difficult to track and follow and understand and to actually have the effect that it ultimately has on everybody except Hermione, and I think that’s exactly why Umbridge doesn’t care that nobody’s paying attention to her, because she’s kind of getting to fly under the radar, right? The Ministry at this point knows that they can’t quite say the quiet part out loud; they know that they have to be more political and covert about it at this point, and I think her being boring and confusing to listen to is by design.
Eric: That is a really good point also. I mean, it would be bad enough that she seemed, to most of the school, to interrupt Dumbledore. That was bad enough that he was about to send them on their way, and she took… and he gave an inch and she took a mile, as far as that. Really, that alone… I mean, if Grubbly-Plank did that, Harry would be calling for her blood. I mean, seriously.
Laura: I mean, I think a lot of people would. I think the thing with Umbridge is a lot of people don’t know who she is.
Eric: Right.
Laura: So there’s a bit of astonishment, like, “Does this lady know who she just interrupted?”
Eric: Being nonplussed, and her fake sweetness. I think kids have a knack for detecting when an adult is being fake with you, and I think that some of that is clearly already coming through to, if not the whole student body, definitely to Harry. There’s something too sickly sweet about her that would, I think, put Harry off even if he didn’t recognize her from the trial that he just went through where she tried to get him expelled.
Micah: And that’s an important part of it, though, too, because that allows Hermione to connect the dots.
Eric: Yes.
Micah: And I think even under normal circumstances she would still be paying attention to what this woman is saying, but she pays it extra careful attention because Harry says that, in fact, Umbridge was a part of the trial. And Laura, going back to something you were talking about before, she is telling you who she is by not telling you who she is almost. It’s a very nice facade that she’s able to put up. And I think for a lot of the students – it was mentioned how one was staring blankly, I’m sure more than one, but a lot of the other ones are kind of making fun of her – they don’t realize the challenge that is standing in front of them, or who this person is ultimately going to become just a few chapters from now, how sinister, how evil this person actually is. And that goes to the sugary sweetness you were talking about; I think that’s the part that they can latch on to as kids and make fun of, and some of them do that.
Eric: Yeah. I think Dumbledore really plays this pitch perfectly in this chapter – I can already hear Andrew cheering in the editing room about this – but his response to Umbridge’s entire speech is polite applause, and he tries to get it going for everyone else. He cannot be seen to then immediately try and warn the student body about her or anything. They’re sort of on their own, but not in a “Dumbledore is neglectful” way, but in a “Dumbledore’s hands are directly tied” sort of way to suss out what kind of person Umbridge is and what her true intentions are. They’ll find out soon enough, to Laura’s point, but Dumbledore has to allow her here and has to allow her to do pretty much anything she wants, and that alone should make everyone uncomfortable.
Micah: I’m interested, though, what would have happened if he would have told her, “Excuse me, I’m not done yet.” And I agree with you, he has to let her play her hand here; if he does choose to interrupt her or tell her to sit down and shut up, that’s not going to go over well, and it’s not going to be a great look for him because nobody yet really knows who Dolores Umbridge is.
Eric and Laura: Yeah.
Laura: And Dumbledore has already gotten so much negative publicity. If she runs back to Cornelius and it ends up in the Daily Prophet that Dumbledore allegedly body-slammed a Ministry official for interrupting him in the Great Hall…
[Eric laughs]
Laura: … it would just be too much and his career would be over.
Eric: Here’s the thing: Dumbledore’s student approval rating has to be an all time low, too, because of that same gossip. If you look at what happens with Seamus and Harry at the end of the chapter, if you pedal that backwards a little bit, if Dumbledore had put any toes out of line or behaved in a cavalier sort of way, even some of his students, the ones that have been at Hogwarts for years, would turn against him because it would make him seem more reckless and more unhinged and more not with it and together, the way everyone’s saying that he’s not. So he really, I think, is starting the year off with the lowest approval rating, and has to really be careful.
Laura: Yeah. Does he ever get it back? Is there ever a point after this where Dumbledore has the same level of respect amongst the student body as he had pre-Goblet of Fire?
Eric: Maybe in the very next year, because he finally hires some teachers that people like to do the subjects that people like. And everyone remembers how awful Umbridge was, so that benefits Dumbledore for navigating that successfully the previous year.
Micah: And Voldemort returns. I think that vindicates him on some level.
Eric and Laura: Yeah.
Micah: I think the students probably who all along didn’t like Dumbledore don’t necessarily turn over a new leaf and grow fond of him, but maybe some who were questioning fall back in line a little bit. But just look at what happens after his fall from the Astronomy tower and at his funeral; clearly, it’s well-attended and he’s well-acknowledged.
Laura: Let’s talk about the Harry and Seamus fight. Once they get back up to their dormitory, Harry just wants to go to sleep. Harry is tired.
Micah: He’s had a day.
Eric: Well, to be fair, yeah.
Laura: And I mean, his fellow students have been staring at him and clearly talking about him every chance they can get. He’s uncomfortable, he’s tired, he’s had a long day, he wants to go to bed.
Eric: Well, Laura, before we get there, I actually had a question that I wanted to ask you guys. He has the opportunity to maybe help Ron and Hermione. There was a split second where I thought… because Ron is surprised. Hermione is like, “Ron, this is us. We have to lead the first years to the dormitory.” And Ron is like, “Who? Oh, yeah.” But they could have maybe turned to Harry and say, “Harry, I know you’re not technically a prefect. Would you like to help us?” He could have stuck around. What ends up happening is the first time an 11-year-old looks at him funny – or maybe somebody who’s 13 or 12 – he immediately resolves to leave and take secret passageways the whole way up to the castle. So he’s in his head. But would it have gone over differently if somebody had said, “Harry, can you actually help us with these kids?” or something like that? Maybe…
Micah: I think it’s important, though, the point you bring up about him taking the secret passages, because that shows just what kind of state of mind he’s in…
Eric: He doesn’t want to be…
Micah: … that he’s really not wanting to engage with anybody, that he’s using… whether it’s the map, whether it’s his cloak… I don’t know that they get specific, but he knows these passageways anyway, and he’s able to navigate it such that he really doesn’t have to interact with anybody.
Eric: He is his father’s son.
Micah: [laughs] Seamus just adds fuel to the fire at this point.
Eric and Laura: Yeah.
Eric: It’s been a long day.
Laura: It has. And Harry gets to his dorm, and of course, he finds some of his dorm mates there. Neville is there; so are Dean and Seamus. And Harry asks how Dean’s summer was, and Dean says, “Oh, my summer was great. Seamus’s, though, his was pretty rough,” and Harry goes to ask what happened, and Seamus kind of awkwardly says, “You happened, man. My mom didn’t want me to come back to Hogwarts because of you,” because his mom had absorbed the narrative from the Daily Prophet that Harry was lying or crazy, that Dumbledore was old and forgetful, and that none of this stuff with Voldemort had happened.
Eric: Oh, man.
Laura: So this leads to quite a blowup between the two of them, with Seamus feeling like Harry is attacking his mother and Harry feeling attacked by a woman that he’s seen once in person before, and then Seamus, of course, feels like he needs to rise to the occasion to defend his mother’s honor. Harry doesn’t handle escalation very well, and he doesn’t here, but I understand why; he’s been dealing with this all summer. He went through this trial, thought he wasn’t going to be allowed to come back to Hogwarts, got through that, had to deal with everything at Grimmauld Place, gets here, and the first thing he’s greeted by in his room, which is supposed to be his safe space, is, “Yo, my mom thinks – and therefore I think – you’re a nutter.” That sucks.
Eric: It’s a lot to put on Harry. It’s “You and Dumbledore are the reason that my life is hard.” It’s unfair. I think there was a more constructive way that Seamus could have said it, like, “I’m not getting along with my mom because I almost couldn’t come back to Hogwarts, even despite my desire for learning. She’s been reading the paper, and to be honest, I’m uncertain how I feel about you.” It’s not a nicer message, but it’s a little bit… it’s a lot less teenage boy to do something different than what he does.
Micah: So is that what you think the root of the issue is, is a disagreement between Seamus and his mom about Harry?
Eric: No, I think that Seamus is deeply curious what happens to… that’s why, after this immediate blowup, he does ask Harry, “Hey, what did happen?”
Micah: Which is the million dollar question that keeps coming up throughout Order of the Phoenix, but it’s really not going to satiate anybody, really. There’s nothing that Harry can say from his experience in the graveyard that is going to really change anybody’s opinion, in my mind.
Eric: Right, it makes Harry think that he’s coming up short here. And he even acknowledges that at the end of last year he was distraught, and there were only a couple of days, and he didn’t get to tell everybody the full thing. But there is no “full thing,” really, other than what Dumbledore said, so it’s either that was good enough for you or it wasn’t. And it seems like with the addition of the stuff that the Daily Prophet is putting, fewer people are okay with taking Dumbledore’s word for it.
Micah: The important thing, though, that comes from this is that it shows Harry he doesn’t always have the support of those within his own House, and it’s going to become a larger theme about loyalty and choosing sides of this war as we move forward. Now, this is a very smaller example of that, with probably not as many implications because it’s resolved by the end of this book for the most part, but there are going to be people who are going to fall on both sides of the aisle here, and it may not always be the characters that Harry, or we, anticipate. And I like to think that there’s more to this story, though, than what Seamus is actually sharing. I know that he probably has a strong desire to support his mother’s position, and certainly once she gets insulted by Harry, he has every right to defend her. But one thing that I remembered and I find to be somewhat ironic… and I’m going to call Seamus and his mother a bunch of hypocrites, because in the previous book, both of them could give two rats’ you-know-whats about what the Ministry thought of their decked-out shamrock tent at the Quidditch World Cup. So interesting how now they’re all lovey-dovey with Cornelius and kissing the Ministry’s behind in this particular situation. So whenever it suits you, please, fall in line.
Eric: It’s a crying shame. Even Ron brings up that they met Seamus’s mom; “We liked your mother,” he says, “last year when we met her. Thought she was all right.” It’s a shame that it should have degraded and devolved into this personal angle. But ultimately, it’s just the only thing causing this is nothing Harry did. It’s not even anything Dumbledore did. It’s the Ministry that’s unwilling to acknowledge that things are as bad as they are, and if they just told people, then we could all be facing the real challenge ahead of us, and not what’s being lied about.
Laura: Yeah. Well, Micah, I think you have a “What if?” for us. Did you want to get to that? Or do you have any other of these notes you wanted to touch on?
Micah: Yeah, let’s do it.
Eric: Ooh, okay, I’m going to play the sound effect. Get ready.
[“What if?” sound effect plays]
Micah: What if Seamus moved the hell out?
[Laura laughs]
Eric: Now I’m playing Billy Joel. [laughs]
Micah: Oh, yeah. Great song, by the way. I thought a little bit through this. Who cares, number one, if he moved out? Nobody cares about Seamus.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: Right. Is this a serious question, Micah? Is this a serious…?
Micah: It’s a kind of fun “What if,” okay? There’s an extra bed. I mean, that’s a huge bonus. If I were Ron, Dean, Neville, and Harry, I’d be like, “Dude, go.” They’re fifth years; they need the space. They don’t mind an extra bed.
Eric: You know that Ron would put his feet on the other bed.
Micah: Totally.
Eric: Because he’s tall; he’s always growing taller…
Micah: Who do we think would need to sign off on this? Because I’m all for it.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Micah: McGonagall?
Eric: Well, there has to actually… yeah, it’s McGonagall. There actually has to be a way to mediate these kinds of disagreements. I mean, maybe not this specific disagreement.
Micah: It can’t be the only time this has happened. Surely, this has come up before. I mean, think about the people who probably live with Fred and George.
Eric: [laughs] Yeah, any college dorm roommates. You can be relocated. It takes a little bit, but you can do it.
Laura: I just wonder where, because there really aren’t too many options unless they’re going to move him into the fourth years’ dorm or the sixth years’ dorm, which probably wouldn’t be fun.
Eric: I just want to point out the complete fallibility and inconsistency of class sizes at Hogwarts and student populace size. Even in this chapter, it is said that there is a huge line of people waiting to be Sorted, and it takes a long time for that line to go down in this chapter, and yet, from Harry’s year there were five Gryffindors; you can name them all, and they’re all in this room, so it just doesn’t make sense. And they can expand any space with magic, so there has to be room and beds for everybody to spare to have private apartments, even.
Laura: I mean, they have those sleeping bags they used in Prisoner of Azkaban.
Eric: I would love…
Micah: There’s couches in the common room.
Eric: Oh my God.
Micah: I’m sure people have slept on them. So IntoTheWickedWood/Becky in the Discord makes a really good point: “Maybe Seamus feels a bit unsafe in a room with Harry without knowing for sure what really happened or what’s happening with him. He might be a brave Gryffindor, but it’s harder to be brave in the face of the unknown.”
Laura: Yeah, well, and to be honest here, I totally understand why Seamus’s mom was scared. I mean, they’re getting misinformation.
Micah: A student died.
Laura: They’re getting misinformation from their government, and she’s worried about sending her son back to school with someone who the Ministry is saying is off his rocker and potentially dangerous.
Micah: The real thing is somebody who came out of the maze with the dead body. I think that’s the real issue here.
Eric: I think, as Michelle points out in our Discord, maybe Seamus feels betrayed, too. He’s a close enough friend to Harry to expect an explanation and have that be okay, but it’s just that Harry has been picked and prodded at the entire summer. And I think there is a world in which Harry would take the time and actually explain it, but he’s tired of answering.
Micah: Seamus ain’t even close to the fourth wheel, okay? He’s got at least a handful of people in front of him.
Laura: Honestly, I think Luna is in front of him. [laughs]
Micah: Yeah. Well, speaking of people who are close to Harry, Neville. Let’s talk a little bit about him. Because this moment for him is a defining moment, I think, in the series, standing up, much like he does in Sorcerer’s Stone, but this time, in front of the rest of his dorm mates to voice his support for Harry, voice his grandmother’s support for Harry and Dumbledore. I just thought it was a really cool moment.
Laura: Yeah, I loved it.
Eric: And there’s this talk about Seamus’s mom, but Neville’s gran knows what’s up. Every time Neville’s gran shows up in these books, any mention of her – the way McGonagall talks about her once or twice – you just see that she is a no-nonsense woman who has her head on straight. But here’s the other aspect there that nobody’s talking about, and Neville, we don’t know who his parents were yet; it’s coming later in this book. But if your child was one of the main foils to Voldemort, and they died, and your grandson is now going to a school where Voldemort’s return is not being publicized, you would take that seriously. Augusta Longbottom is taking it seriously because she lost a son and daughter-in-law, or daughter and son-in-law – I think probably son and daughter-in-law – to Voldemort. She’s not about to discredit or discount somebody like Dumbledore saying he’s returned. You just can’t fool that woman.
Laura: Well, and she probably feels like the safest place for Neville is wherever Dumbledore is, so she’s probably eager for him to go back. But it is so interesting, Eric, that you point out the differences in perception between people whose families either were or were not impacted directly by the first wizarding war. The people who had close relatives die the first time around are like, “Nope, I get it. Feels like last time.”
Eric: Yeah. Or people in the Order, even more specifically, would have gained that trust of Dumbledore, that extra trust that really helps. But yeah, I mean, Augusta just knows that it’s not anything to ignore. She’s seeing the signs.
Micah: And speaking of Dumbledore, I thought it was very emotionally mature of Harry at the end of this chapter to notice that maybe he’s going through the same thing as Harry, right? Maybe Dumbledore is experiencing a little bit of what – or maybe a lot of what – Harry is going through in this particular moment. We know about the expulsion from the… what is it, the Wizengamot?
Eric: Oh, yeah. And it’s funny how Seamus is citing that as like, “Well, he was kicked off the Wizengamot because he’s losing his marbles,” and it’s like, “Name another member of the Wizengamot. I dare you.”
Laura: Right.
[Micah laughs]
Eric: Like, you really care about this? Like, seriously.
Laura: But also, did you even know what the Wizengamot was?
Eric: Before you saw that Dumbledore had been kicked off of it? Yeah. I hate it so much.
Laura: [laughs] Well, we need to take one more quick break before we come back with our question of the week. Sit tight and we will be right back.
[Ad break]
Question of the Week
Laura: All right, y’all, so time to get into some questions. First one, our replacement for the old MVP of the Week segment. I have a question that’s actually inspired, Eric, by a point you made earlier in the episode about Hermione being the ChatGPT for Harry and Ron. So what would we want HermioneGPT to TLDR for us? TLDR stands for too long; didn’t read.
Eric: [laughs] So what is Hermione going to summarize? So for me, it’s going to be Professor Binns’s History of Magic lessons. I feel like there’s probably some good info there, but do I want to spend a whole class period listening to a dead guy drone on about it? No. HermioneGPT, please deliver us and save me that time. Give me my 45 minutes back.
Micah: I want her to give me the short summary of the conversation that took place between Professor McGonagall and Professor Sprout while Umbridge was giving her speech.
[Eric laughs]
Laura: Oooh, that’s a very good one.
Eric: That’s a good one, yeah.
Laura: I like that. I said my Ancient Runes homework, just because I’ve always imagined… when I’ve thought about Hogwarts courses and which ones would probably be the hardest for me, for some reason Ancient Runes seems like there’s lots of calculations involved, and that’s not my jam, so I think I would have HermioneGPT help me with that.
Eric: Love it. Yeah, that was a good thought process there.
Lynx Line
Laura: And now we’re going to turn to our Lynx Line, which is our newest benefit on Patreon. Thanks to those who support us at Patreon.com/MuggleCast for answering this week’s question. So this week’s question is related, again, to the Umbridge theme of the chapter: In this chapter, Umbridge not so subtly announces her intentions to reform the curricula of Hogwarts. So this week we asked which class, lesson, or teacher would benefit most from changes to improve the educational experience? And which changes would you make to their subject and how it is taught? And we added a caveat here: Please don’t pick Hagrid. We rag on him enough.
Micah: Aww.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: I don’t know if we spent enough time on it on this episode; I was expecting a lot more time devoted to how the Ravenclaws are way justified in disliking him.
Micah: There’s plenty of other episodes where we’ve ragged on Hagrid.
Eric: Okay, all right, all right, then I will be silent. But the first one on the Lynx Line, the first response we got on our Lynx Line from Ning Xi, says,
“The grading of Divination seems extremely subjective and would probably benefit from some sort of grading rubric. I think recent world events is proving learning history is important, so minimizing sleeping students would help greatly.”
Laura: Good call.
Eric: Yeah, I agree with that. Any of these nebulous grading schemes have to go.
Micah: Carly says,
“I do feel like the first years’ flying lesson should be reformed a bit. It’s kind of like driver’s ed but with 11-year-olds, and they basically let them drive a car their first day.”
[Eric and Laura laugh]
“They should go through an instructional class first, pass a written test, then only after all that would they be allowed on a worn-out wobbly hand-me-down stick that can go hundreds of feet in the air.”
Micah: So I agree with that, Carly.
Laura: That’s a good one. Honestly, I’m kind of surprised because we know that we find out in Book 7, isn’t it, that Harry had a broomstick that was designed for toddlers that didn’t lift him very high? I’m kind of surprised that for 11-year-olds learning to fly for the first time, there isn’t something similar.
Eric: Oh yeah, like training brooms, basically. Yeah, that’s a good point. The fact that Neville can get on his broom and then all of a sudden be throttled off and put in mortal peril is well an oversight.
Laura: Stef asks,
“What do they learn in Transfiguration besides turning an animal into a goblet? Hermione seems to be the only one who uses transfiguration outside of school, and we all know she likes ‘just a bit of light reading.'”
Eric: [laughs] Ah, this is such a good one.
Laura: It is.
Eric: I can’t believe Stef came for McGonagall, but I think it’s a point. What use is this to the wider world? And can we make, or find, more worthy reasons to use Transfiguration? It’s whenever we would go to a class for real and say, “Where will we use this, trigonometry, in the real world?” And there really isn’t a time where you have to figure out the area under a curve in real life unless you’ve gone into a very specific field, so for Transfiguration, yeah, the kind of the things that we see them doing, I think that’s very fair.
Laura: Is it? I mean, isn’t becoming an Animagus…? Isn’t that under the Transfiguration umbrella? Did we ever get an answer to that?
Eric: Which one in 40 million people have ever done.
Laura: Yeah, yeah. But we also learn about Gamp’s Laws of Elemental Transfiguration; that’s another use. But again, Hermione is the one who brings that up. [laughs]
Eric: Yeah, it’s interesting what the base most level of Transfiguration’s uses is. Interesting. Rachel adds,
“One subject I’d like to add to Hogwarts is health. Not only because I love Madam Pomfrey, but I think a class on basic remedies and treatments would benefit students. It’d also be an opportunity to teach the cost/rules of magic on the body, which would be some cool world-building.”
I love this.
Laura: I do too. This is really smart. This is actually one of the best justifications I’ve heard for Hogwarts having a health class. We’ve talked about that before, but it’s usually in the context of, like, “Hogwarts needs sex ed because these are a bunch of teenagers.”
Eric: Right.
Laura: And they don’t have that, and that just seems like a miss, as they say. But I love this idea of expanding it to say, “Here’s how you take care of yourself, but here’s also how you can remedy things if you accidentally cast a jinx, a jinx backfires on you, and you need to be able to do something to quickly address the immediate damage so that you can get down to the hospital wing.” Stuff like that would be really helpful and cool.
Eric: Yeah, and it would explain how a Healer becomes a Healer. At least if you were given the most basic level of understanding during Hogwarts, then I could see the path, I guess, towards that as a career.
Micah: AJ brings up Muggle Studies, saying, “We don’t see it, but Mr. Weasley’s understanding is a little underdeveloped for a Ministry expert in the area.”
[Eric laughs]
Micah: I think we see that quite a bit, actually.
Eric: What, Muggle Studies?
Micah: Oh, is he saying we don’t see Muggle Studies? I see. The way I read it is we don’t see Mr. Weasley’s understanding being underdeveloped.
Eric: Look, I don’t want to speak ill of the dead, but it is unclear what Charity Burbage’s whole curriculum and agenda is at Hogwarts, and it’s possible that she’s failing the wizarding public as a whole, yes.
Laura: I feel like if it were bad, Hermione would say something.
Eric: Oooh!
Laura: Because of course Hermione takes Muggle Studies, because she has to take everything.
Eric: That’s a good point.
Micah: And I’m not entirely sure… do we even know that Muggle Studies existed at Hogwarts when Arthur was there?
Eric: Yeah, that’s true.
Laura: Yeah, maybe not.
Micah: Arthur seems to have just fallen into a very niche role at the Ministry.
Eric and Laura: Yeah.
Eric: All good points.
Laura: I agree. Well, we do have several more submissions, but I will just preface this by saying everything else is hate for Snape and Potions, and Binns and History of Magic.
[Eric and Micah laugh]
Laura: So getting into the Potions hate, Lindsay says,
“Potions is an OSHA nightmare. Poor lighting, no ventilation for fumes, chemicals are not properly labeled with hazard warnings, safety goggles and dragon hide gloves not being worn. Where’s the safety shower? Where are the safety data sheets? Hazardous waste spill plans? Does the Potions Master ensure students have basic math skills year one to adequately follow instructions?”
[Eric sighs]
Laura: No, they definitely don’t.
Eric: Every one of these is a good point that I’d love to write a dissertation on. [laughs] But for me, the math and the conversions of grams to liters to… again, measuring ingredients; that is so important in baking – I mean, potions.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: There’s really no substitute. And not only are they working with hazardous chemicals, but the teacher is threatening half the time to give you the hazardous chemical that you’ve created! If you’re Neville. And Roshni says,
“The whole class is ‘Here’s a recipe. Try it.’ And Snape knows all these tricks and stuff, but he doesn’t teach it to them? What’s the point in that? Is there any technique taught at all? It just doesn’t seem effective to me.”
You’re right, Snape just brow beats everyone. And maybe a few people get to learn that way, but most people probably do not.
Micah: Michelle says that,
“Snape may be a highly skilled wizard and potion maker, but there should be no room for bullying in the classroom. His knowledge and high standards should make him a great teacher, but his inability to create a safe space for learning makes him completely ineffective.”
Yeah, we see that a couple times in this series with certain students.
Laura: Oh, yeah. Stef says,
“It felt like an entirely different subject with Slughorn teaching it, as he made it open, engaging, and integrated the teachings into their lived experiences. A fun idea could be partnering up with Herbology on a garden-to-cauldron project.”
That’s so cool, because those subjects do go hand in hand.
Eric: There is a lot of overlap, for sure, between several of these subjects. And Julianne adds, regarding potions, “Any decent educator knows that encouraging students and building positive relationships are some of the most important aspects of helping students learn.” Guess Snape didn’t get that memo, but then again, he was never trained as a teacher.
Micah: Fair point. All right, it is time for some Binns bashing.
Eric: Oooh.
[Laura laughs]
Micah: We heard from Xavier, who said, “This is my first Lynx Line!”
Well, welcome.
“I think that if it was taught properly, History of Magic could be a blast. If the teacher was engaged in the lessons and brought in goblins or people that study history in the magical world, it could be super fun. Also, if you did projects on wizards, goblins, or giant wars, it could be a blast. It’s all about the teaching style. I think it has a lot of potential.”
Laura: Absolutely.
Eric: You know, the only reason we have Binns as an educator is because Dumbledore never hired another. He was like, “Oh, oh, I’m going to have to hire a new… wait, wait, no, he’s a ghost. Oh, thank God. We’ll just put the ghost and let the ghost keep doing it. It was good enough for him during life. We don’t even need to pay him. Let’s just let him…” We could have had a fun, young, hip History of Magic teacher, somebody to shake things up.
Laura: Yeah. Morgan says,
“I would absolutely dread his class, and I’m someone who actually loves history. For students who didn’t grow up in the wizarding world and never heard about magical historical events firsthand, his lessons must be a real struggle. There needs to be more interaction. How about class debates or discussions? Allowing students to present on topics of interest would make the subject so much more engaging. Even a bit of peer-to-peer teaching could help break up the monotony.”
Yeah, I mean, again, we’re hearing lots of suggestions that would be way better than what we get.
Eric: I’m so glad we asked this. These are all very useful, for sure.
Micah: I think for the subjects that have real world applications, a lot of this could be the author’s own experience, let’s say, perhaps with her history classes over the years, and the kinds of professors or the way the subject matter was taught. I know… I mean, any subject matter can be dry and boring, but history probably has a bad rap when it comes to that.
Eric: Yeah, for sure. Jennifer says,
“I think about how much better it could have been if Professor Binns had just made it a little more interesting or engaging for the students. The very fact that he’s a ghost could have made the class that much more exciting. He could have drifted over the class, catching people not paying attention. Knowing where we come from is how we avoid problems in the future, or so we hope.”
Micah: Eleanor says, “Okay, I’m biased. I’m a history graduate.”
Eric: [laughs] Disclaimer.
“But it’s an absolutely fascinating subject, just not when taught by someone who just drones on and on and on with dates and facts. Make it a bit more interactive. Have some debates. Explain why things happen and why they’re important. Get the ghosts who lived through it to talk about their experiences. There’s an opportunity here to make it super fun and interesting.”
Eric: Ahh!
Micah: I agree.
Laura: I love that idea.
Eric: I love the idea that Binns could network with fellow ghosts!
Laura: Yeah. I mean, clearly, Nearly Headless Nick is ready to talk about it.
Eric: There you go!
Micah: Just make sure McGonagall is not around.
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: Yeah, she’ll glare at you.
Laura: And finally, Emily says,
“History can be so interesting, and most students seem to sleep through this class. Hermione’s historical knowledge comes in handy many times throughout the series. If the subject was taught in a more interesting way, many students may have the same knowledge.”
It’s a good point. We wouldn’t have to necessarily only rely on Hermione.
Eric: That’s a good point.
Laura: Well, thank you so much, everyone, for participating in this week’s Lynx Line. And don’t forget, you can participate in the Lynx Line every week by becoming a patron over at Patreon.com/MuggleCast. And if you have feedback about today’s discussion, you can contact us by emailing or sending a voice memo recorded on your phone to MuggleCast@gmail.com.
Micah: And next week it will be Order of the Phoenix Chapter 12, “Professor Umbridge.”
Quizzitch
Micah: But now it’s time for Quizzitch.
Eric: Heck yeah. First of the year.
Micah: [whispers] It’s back.
[Quizzitch music plays]
Eric: This week’s Quizzitch question was inspired by The Quibbler. Which UK tabloid, known for its sensationalist journalism, was founded in the year 1896 by a man who would later become First Viscount Northcliffe? Yes, it’s one of the two main tabloids in the UK, and the correct answer is The Daily Mail. 63% of people said they got it without looking it up, and I’m choosing to believe them. Correct answers were submitted by Stubby Boardman; A healthy breeze; All I want for Christmas is Tom Felton under the tree… hope you got it. Annabelle; Buff Daddy, Cornelius “Goblin-Crusher” Fudge; Eleanor; Guys, I have finals this week, and if I get over 50% on my chem final, then I will be very surprised; Kreacher’s crevices; Laura’s Quizzitch Number Hints; Oh the random things you learn as a history teacher; Patronus Seeker; Proud Hufflepuff; Ravenclaws read both the Daily Prophet AND the Quibbler to be fully informed; Shyam; The Hash-Slinging Slasher; The Sorting Hat’s New Diss Track; The Wheatbelt Warlock; The Witch Weekly of the Muggle World; This is my real name; Tipsy Elf; Uncle Vernon’s favorite newspaper; and What are those horse things?
[Laura laughs]
Eric: Okay. Ah, quite a fun… I think it was two weeks of names, so there you go. And here is next week’s Quizzitch question: In light of Umbridge’s long and boring speech, what is the length of the longest speech ever given in the United Kingdom, presented by Henry Peter Brougham in 1828? I need the length of the speech in hours. I’ll give you a hint: It’s more than four and less than eight.
Micah: Seven?
Eric: Submit your answer to us on the Quizzitch website. Could that…? Is that Laura’s number hints, or Micah’s number hints there?
[Micah laughs]
Laura: Well…
Eric: But yeah, submit your answer to us… what were you saying, Laura?
Laura: I was just going to say, well, if you get it wrong because of that, I don’t want the smoke; I didn’t say it. [laughs]
Eric: Yeah, so it was Micah that said it. Submit your answer to us using the Quizzitch form, which can be found on the MuggleCast website if you’re going to MuggleCast.com/Quizzitch, or going on MuggleCast for another reason – maybe reading some transcripts – click on “Quizzitch” for the main nav bar. Get over there that way. And thanks to all who participated in Quizzitch and are participating in our real world questions trivia rounds! Really appreciate it.
Micah: And just a few closing reminders: Be sure to check out our other weekly podcasts, What the Hype?! and Millennial, for some more pop culture and real world talk from the four of us. I know Laura, you and Pam just did the first What the Hype?! of 2025 on Onyx Storm. Is that a Pokémon spinoff?
Laura: [laughs] I can see why you would think that. So Onyx Storm is the third book in the Empyrean series, after Fourth Wing and Iron Flame, and it is coming out on January 21. So Pam and I had a guest join us, Karly from Dear Fantasy Reader Podcast, and we went over all of our most fun, most maybe controversial predictions about what we think is going to happen in Onyx Storm. It was such a fun episode, and yeah, by the time this episode of MuggleCast is out, it will be up on the What the Hype?! feed, so definitely check it out if you want to see what we think Onyx Storm has in store for us.
Micah: Yeah. And don’t forget, all these shows are brought to you by Muggles like you. So listener support is the only reason we’ve been able to podcast for 20 – that is two zero – years.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Eric: Oh, I’m old again. My beard.
Micah: There are several great ways, of course, for you to help us out. Visit MuggleCastMerch.com to get official MuggleCast shirts, hoodies, glassware, and hats. Apple Podcasts subscribers can sign up for MuggleCast Gold, which gets you instant access to ad-free and early releases of MuggleCast, plus two bonus MuggleCast installments every month. And for even more benefits, you can pledge at Patreon.com/MuggleCast. You’ll get all the benefits of MuggleCast Gold, plus livestreams, yearly stickers, Lynx Line participation, a physical gift, a video message from one of the four of us made just for you, and much, much more. If you enjoy MuggleCast and think other Muggles would too, tell a friend about the show, and leave a five star review in your favorite podcast app. And finally, visit MuggleCast.com for transcripts, social media links, our full episode archive, our favorite episodes, and more. That does it for Episode 688. We made it. Andrew will be back next week; don’t worry.
Eric: I’ll try not to lose all of the recording.
[Everyone laughs]
Micah: Thanks, everybody, for listening. I’m Micah.
Eric: I’m Eric.
Laura: And I’m Laura.
Micah: Bye, everyone.
Laura: Happy New Year.
Eric: Bye! Happy New Year!