Transcript for MuggleCast Episode #697, Hey Malfoy You’re So Fine (OOTP Chapter 19, The Lion and the Serpent)
Show Intro
[Show music plays]
Andrew Sims: Welcome to MuggleCast, where we go Chapter by Chapter through the Harry Potter books and keep you updated on the forthcoming Harry Potter TV show. We’re basically your Harry Potter friends and your weekly ride into the fandom. I’m Andrew.
Eric Scull: I’m Eric.
Micah Tannenbaum: I’m Micah.
Laura Tee: And I’m Laura.
Andrew: And this week, try your best to avoid hitting your Quidditch rival lest you be banned from the sport forever, because we’re discussing Order of the Phoenix Chapter 19, “The Lion and the Serpent.” Plus, we have a little bit of TV show and illustrated edition news, so let’s start with those two news items.
News
Andrew: First of all, we have casting updates concerning Snape and McGonagall: Paapa Essiedu and Janet McTeer are reportedly being signed for the roles of Snape and McGonagall. And we spoke about Paapa previously, when his name first came up as being considered for the role of Snape. Jana McTeer is new, though. She’s appeared in movies like The Menu, which was released in 2022, actually opposite Ralph Fiennes, who played Voldemort in the movies. And she was also in 2016’s Me Before You. But what I know her from is Ozark, the Netflix TV series.
Laura: Same. [laughs]
Andrew: She has an intimidating role on that show. And I was like, “Oh, this is perfect, because she was great in that role, so she can intimidate and boss kids around at Hogwarts.” So A+ there.
Laura: She’s a badass.
Eric: Love to hear that. Absolutely love to hear that.
Andrew: Yeah, so I’m pleased by that. Also – I think now we have to throw this out there for every time we hear about an actor or actress – both these people are English actors. They aren’t Americans.
Eric: Ooh, okay. All right.
Andrew: So any other thoughts on these two? We’ve discussed Paapa a bit previously, like I said.
Eric: Yeah, Snape’s casting in particular does seem to be driving people to the comment boards. I think at this point, really, we just have to see how the story is going to treat that character, because adding race into an already very difficult type character, I want to say problematic and offensive character, may excuse or make some discourse around that character harder to navigate.
Laura: I think the point is, though, you can be any race and be a crappy person. And I think sometimes people kind of miss the potential for a deeper story to be told here, because they’re too afraid of the what ifs. “What if someone has even more charged things to say about Snape because of his race?” Someone who was going to do that was going to find reasons to do it anyway, right? They were going to find some kind of outlet to pour that into, so I don’t know that we need to use that as a reason to not step outside of the box creatively, especially with a story like Harry Potter that I know we were – at least I was – very concerned early on that this show was just going to try and be a repeat of the best hits from the movies, and that it would be too much like the movies and they would just be trying to basically cash in. But what these castings show me, along with John Lithgow, is that they’re intending to tell a different story here, and they’re going to be faithful to the plot and the character arcs of the story we already know, but giving us a different lens to view it through. I’m actually excited by that.
Eric: I keep… in terms of for this particular topic, I go back to what Evalynda said when we talked about this on our mailbag Episode 690, and she said, as a person of color herself, “I actually think that changing his race would add complexity to his character.”
Andrew: The complaints I keep seeing are from people who are merely upset that they’re changing the race of a character.
Laura: There’s a lot of that too.
Andrew: That’s it! That’s it. They think WB is doing it just to cast more people of color in these roles. And we went through this when they cast a woman of color to play Hermione in the Cursed Child; people lost their minds. Then we see the show; it has zero impact on the story, on the character, nothing whatsoever. Looking at the comments on the MuggleCast video that we posted, a couple of people were like, “Oh, Snape can’t be a person of color, because in the book, he’s described as having a pale face on one page.” I’m like, “Are you freaking kidding me?”
Laura: Oh, who cares?
Andrew: Who cares?!
Laura: That’s ridiculous.
Andrew: It’s racist. They just want to complain about a Black person being put on their screens.
Micah: I think it just comes down to finding the best person to portray the role.
Laura: Yep.
Micah: And as you just said, even though people initially were up in arms about changing the race of Hermione for Cursed Child, she was fantastic, and I think we’ll find something similar, hopefully, with Paapa Essiedu taking on this role. People are so focused on the color of the person’s skin… has absolutely nothing to do with the character that he or she might be portraying. I think we need to remove that from the conversation here.
Andrew: For this character specifically, yes. Race plays no role in this character.
Laura: And I would be really interested in hearing other people’s opinions on this, but I think it’s… I see a lot of the rhetoric around “Oh no, we can’t put a person of color in this role, because that could lead to all of these negative perceptions that are rooted in race” that, sorry, already exist in the world anyway. But I feel like it also takes away from the perception that a person of color can and should have the acting range to be able to play a role like this and not always be cast as the good guy, because we’re too afraid to say, “Oh yeah, sometimes anyone can be the bad guy. Anyone can be the jerk.”
Andrew: I just want to make the record clear for everybody, everybody who’s upset about this Snape casting, don’t worry; Janet McTeer is a white woman, so we can all rest easy knowing they’re not changing the race of every character.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: Wow.
Andrew: All right? So sleep well tonight.
Eric: I’ll say, too, for Snape, the actor is 34, which is wonderful.
Laura: Yep.
Andrew: Great!
Eric: Wonderful. Spring chicken.
Andrew: [laughs] “Wonderful.”
Micah: Age appropriate.
Eric: Younger than me, by a few years.
Micah: Younger than me.
Laura: Me too.
Eric: I’m very excited.
Micah: Do you think, though, what this is telling us is that they’re going to cast the Marauders also as being age appropriate?
Eric and Laura: Yep.
Eric: Age appropriate. Canon age.
Andrew: Oooh, good call there. Stay with MuggleCast for more Harry Potter TV show coverage as we approach filming, which is slated to kick off this summer. In some other news, we’ve been wondering what is going to happen to the future of the Jim Kay illustrated Harry Potter books because he decided to step down after Book 5 to look out for his mental health. Completely understandable; this was a huge project that he was taking on. Well, this week we have the new illustrator for Books 6 and 7, Levi Pinfold, and he’s actually worked in the world of Harry Potter before. He worked on Bloomsbury’s Hogwarts House editions, which came out over several years, ending in 2021, and he also worked on the Harry Potter Wizarding Almanac, which came out October 2023.
Micah: Does he look like Jim Kay?
Andrew: I don’t know. [laughs] Hopefully, hopefully. We also now have a release date for the Half-Blood Prince illustrated edition. It’s coming out October 2026, so it’s going to be that year’s holiday gift.
Eric: Part one.
Andrew: Keep dreaming, Eric. Keep dreaming.
[Eric laughs]
Micah: Half the Half-Blood.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Yes, Quarter-Blood Prince.
Andrew: The half Half-Blood Prince. Harry Potter and Half of the Half-Blood Prince. [laughs]
Eric: Sorry, it’s one of my only recurring jokes, so I have to keep saying it.
Andrew: [laughs] You can actually see a preview of his work already on HarryPotter.com. They released his illustration of Harry and Dumbledore looking into the Pensieve, which was beautiful. It looked very similar to Jim Kay’s style, so I think it’s going to be a pretty seamless transition over to Levi Pinfold. Now, here’s something interesting: In the announcement, Jim Kay actually gave his endorsement to Levi Pinfold. He said, “An art director first showed me Levi’s work many years back when I was visiting a publisher. When he pulled open the drawer and I saw this beautiful piece of painting, I was blown away. His work has since then become so important to me, as he’s everything that you could wish for in an illustrator. It’s a huge comfort to know he is working on the Illustrated Editions, for which I’m so grateful, but also as a fan of both Potter and Pinfold, I’m really excited!” Now, the reason I say this is interesting is because when Scholastic announced the new illustrators for the MinaLima editions, there was no endorsement from MinaLima saying, “We’re so excited about the new illustration team.”
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Eric: Oh, you shoot-stirrer.
Andrew: Awkward.
Eric: Yeah. No, but this is the way that you would imagine that they should be doing this with a successor. Good-natured passing of the baton. If this sort of thing has to happen, that’s what you want to see.
Andrew: Jim Kay decided himself to step down. It seems like MinaLima wanted to continue on the project, but there was some sort of rift between them and Scholastic. That’s our speculation, in any way. Allegedly.
Micah: Levi’s got a little bit of Sirius Black going for him here.
Andrew: Yeah?
Micah: In this photo, it looks like.
Andrew: Do you think he could play Sirius in the Harry Potter TV show?
Micah: Why not?
Andrew: All right. [laughs]
Eric: That would be cool.
Andrew: Let him know.
Eric: Let’s start casting people who’ve worked on the previous series, but as actors.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: Mary Grand-Pré for Madam Hooch.
Eric: Yes!
Micah: I can see that, actually.
Andrew: [laughs] I was going to say McGonagall, but that role is taken now.
Micah: Supposedly. She can still sneak in.
Andrew: Well, as we continue to analyze the books and cover the Harry Potter TV show and other news in the Wizarding World, we would really appreciate your financial support at Patreon.com/MuggleCast. By becoming a member of our Patreon, you’re helping us conjure up episodes of this indie show, and in exchange for your support, we offer you instant access to lots of great benefits, like bonus MuggleCast episodes; we release two of those every month. You’ll also get access to our livestreams, our planning docs, ad-free episodes of the show, access to our Discord and Facebook groups, and so much more, so check it all out at Patreon.com/MuggleCast.
Chapter by Chapter: Time-Turner
Andrew: And without further ado, let’s get into Chapter by Chapter. And this week, we’re discussing Order of the Phoenix Chapter 19, “The Lion and the Serpent.”
Eric: Yes, yes, yes. Well, Andrew, we last discussed Chapter 19 on Episode 455 of MuggleCast, called “How to Hogwarts.” That debuted March 3 of 2020, and here is a fascinating clip from our chapter discussion.
[Ticking sound]
Dumbledore: Three turns should do it, I think. Good luck.
Ron: What the…?
[Bell dings]
[Whooshing sound]
Robotic voice: Episode 455.
Eric: Harry’s only recourse is to catch the Snitch fast, and so he does. But Crabbe shoots a Bludger at him, hits him in the small of the back. Have you guys…? The small of the back is where all the nerves meet, and….
Micah: That hurts like a you-know-what if you ever get hit there.
Eric: Have you ever been injured there, Micah?
Micah: Yeah. I mean, I’ve also gotten kicked during karate, like right in the kidneys…
Laura: Oof.
Micah: … and you have to gasp for air. But yeah, if you ever get hit in the small of the back…
Andrew: You did karate? I didn’t know that.
Micah: Yeah, man. Watch out.
Eric: Watch out. [laughs]
Andrew: I won’t mess with you.
[Micah laughs]
[Ticking sound]
Dumbledore: Mysterious thing, time.
[Bell dings]
Andrew: I just had that same reaction listening to that clip. Micah did karate? Totally forgot.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Micah: I did.
Eric: I saved it from repeating by letting us all know at the outset. So since that episode aired five years ago, I’ve been giving Micah a wide berth. I don’t know if you noticed that, Micah.
Andrew: Good call.
Micah: Thank you. But it does hurt, for those who have not experienced it.
[Eric laughs]
Micah: I’ll just reiterate that fact. You definitely do gasp for air because you’re getting hit in some of your most important organs.
Eric: It’s never a good thing.
Micah: It isn’t.
Chapter by Chapter: Main Discussion
Micah: But what is a good thing is that Harry is flying high after his first Dumbledore’s Army lesson, but it is short-lived, unfortunately, as most things are for Harry in this series, and we find out that it is becoming very challenging to schedule these Dumbledore’s Army meetings because everyone has competing priorities, right? It’s like when we try and schedule a MuggleCast.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: There’s so many other things going on in people’s lives that it’s just tough for us to find a time to sit down and record.
Eric: Right, we barely all made it on this week.
Micah: It is true. We need Hermione’s solution, which I really enjoyed reading because it positions her as potentially being a Ravenclaw or having some very strong Ravenclaw qualities, because when she shares that she used a Protean Charm on the Dumbledore’s Army coins, Terry Boot, who is in Ravenclaw, asks why she wasn’t placed there, and Hermione says that the Sorting Hat considered it, but ultimately placed her into Gryffindor. So I’m curious why did the Sorting Hat opt for Gryffindor instead? And I think it’d be fun to make the case for her being in Ravenclaw.
Andrew: Well, I think she’s proven herself at this point to be a brave person, so I think maybe that comes into play. The Sorting Hat was thinking about… saw bravery in her. I don’t know if she exhibited cases of bravery in the past.
Eric: Yeah, I mean, it’s very easy to say because she reads a lot that she’d make a great Ravenclaw, but I seem to recall some discussion throughout the years being that perhaps Sorting is based on what your values are, more than what your personality is strictly. So what she says to Harry in Book 1, “Books and cleverness; there are greater things,” really shows that her values align with the traits that Gryffindors are known for. So maybe that’s it, why she was placed by the hat in there.
Laura: Yeah. I do find it interesting that she notes that the hat picked Gryffindor ultimately, and that it wasn’t her choice, because Harry got to choose.
Eric: Well, he’s the chosen… choosing one.
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: Yeah, but wasn’t it determined that in a Hatstall situation, you get to choose?
Eric: I think that’s right.
Andrew: At what level do you hit Hatstall, though?
Eric: Right.
Andrew: I mean, if the Sorting Hat is just going back and forth, like, “Eenie, meeny, miny, mo… I don’t know.”
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Andrew: I think the Sorting Hat has to declare Hatstall, and that’s when you get to pick.
Eric: Yeah, there’s a bell or a whistle that nobody hears that comes out once every couple of years.
Laura: Is that canon?
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: I don’t think that’s canon.
Andrew: I don’t know if that’s canon, but I could see Hermione just sitting there and waiting for the hat to decide, rather than trying to influence the Sorting Hat like Harry did.
Eric: Well, a Hatstall is very much a Pottermore thing anyway, so it happened post-seven books, even though we learn about other characters that were supposedly Hatstalls historically. Yeah, I think it is canon now, though, that everyone gets the same type of long conversation that Harry had with the hat. [laughs] Where you hear his internal thoughts, “Better be Gryffindor!”
Andrew: [laughs] A six-hour Sorting ceremony for 50 students.
Eric: “You’ve got courage, you’ve got a strong mind…”
Andrew: Oh, that would be so boring, though, if you have to sit there and wait for the hat to deliberate through all these people.
Eric: That’s literally what Hermione… it sounds like the hat did that for her.
Andrew: Oh, painful. It’d be one thing if you could hear the hat deliberating, like everybody else in the Great Hall could hear the hat deliberating, but they can’t, right? That’s more of a movie-ism.
Laura: That would be mortifying if they could. Can you imagine?
Andrew: [laughs] “And you once picked your nose, which suggests you are…”
Eric: “HUFFLEPUFF!”
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: Hey, look, it’s okay if Hufflepuffs say it.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: That hat is so dirty, too, the longer it stays on your head.
Eric: I bet the hat appreciated Hermione’s clean teeth.
Micah: Oh, maybe.
Eric: I don’t know why.
Andrew: Good personal hygiene.
Micah: I do think there’s a certain amount of bravery, too, in the fact that she is a Muggle-born coming to Hogwarts…
Laura: Yep.
Andrew: Absolutely.
Micah: … and she doesn’t make any apologies for it. She’s also not hesitant at all about confronting those who may throw insults her way, so I can understand why she was initially put into Gryffindor, but clearly the hat detected her intellect as well. I was curious, though, if she was placed into Ravenclaw, would she have a different opinion of Luna?
Andrew: Oh, yeah.
Micah: Luna is Ginny’s year so would have been one year younger, but still would have spent a decent amount of time with her, and maybe wouldn’t be so confrontational.
Eric: That’s interesting, because Hermione and Luna are still such different characters. To me, either Luna would grow on Hermione, or I can actually see it going the other way. She could think of Luna the way that Harry still thinks of Colin Creevey, like “That weird kid who’s younger than me and always following me around.” I can see Hermione, even if she were a Ravenclaw, avoiding Luna at all costs, because Luna does not represent the textbook, traditional version of Ravenclaw that you would read about. She’s a much different, interesting kind of Ravenclaw.
Laura: You know, though, I kind of feel like Luna is an outcast in her own House, so I actually think Hermione would probably treat her just about the same, because it seems like that’s how the rest of Ravenclaw treats her. They hide her things from her. Why? They all think she’s weird too.
Andrew: All it would take, though, is one bonding moment in the common room for Hermione to change her opinion on Luna. I have to also think that by being in the same House, Hermione would inherently be a little bit nicer. Not to say that Hermione is always nice to Gryffindors; thinking of feuds with Ron first and foremost, but Seamus or Lavender…
Eric: Well, Ron deserves it, but you have a good point.
Andrew: [laughs] Yeah, I just think there would be a bit of an advantage there for Luna if they were in a House together. Hermione maybe might think, “Oh, how crazy could she be if we got Sorted into the same House?”
Eric: By year five, Hermione will have exhausted all the Ravenclaws’ books, and she’d be looking for more books, and then she’s going to find The Quibbler and Luna is going to give her all the back issues.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: We keep talking about Luna as the outcast, but Hermione may very well have been an outcast as well.
Eric: She nearly was, yeah.
Micah: Just because of how smart she is; I’m not sure how likely fellow Ravenclaws would take to her within her own year. We know that obviously she becomes very good friends with Ron and Harry, but what’s the likelihood that she would have formed those types of friendships with others in Ravenclaw? It’s hard to say.
Eric: I think the fact that she’s in Gryffindor actually brings out that social aspect of her, and that’s a good thing for Hermione’s character, because you can retreat into a book, and I think growing up in Ravenclaw would probably encourage her in some ways to do that and put always academics and learning first. Being in Gryffindor and having to navigate the friendship with Ron and Harry in the earliest months of year one really formed that more social and therefore socially responsible aspect of Hermione’s character.
Laura: Eric, you said something earlier that I really loved about how how we’re Sorted is really based more on values.
Eric: I wish I could remember where I last heard that.
Micah: I said it. I’m just kidding.
[Everyone laughs]
Laura: I mean, you might have. I’m not sure.
Micah: No, I don’t think so.
Laura: But what I love about it is we see in Hermione and Luna two very different representations of what a Ravenclaw could be, which suggests that very holistic values-based approach to Sorting. So to me, it feels like Luna by virtue of her intellectual openness to learning new things and to giving new concepts a chance and not immediately writing them off, that’s a very important kind of intelligence, so I would assert that that’s probably the reason that Luna ends up in Ravenclaw. Whereas if Hermione had ended up there, I think it would have been more of that stereotypical bookish, highly academic, competitive spirit that would have landed her there. So I just think it’s so interesting that you can have two characters who represent the same values, just in very different ways.
Eric: That’s a great point.
Micah: And speaking of the coins that Hermione does charm, she mentions that she draws inspiration for them from the Dark Mark tattoos that Lord Voldemort uses for his Death Eaters, so is this an example of something good coming from something evil?
Eric: Yes. Yeah, and it shows that certain magic is maybe value neutral, or can be at least accessed by both sides.
Andrew and Laura: Yeah.
Andrew: And I think we see examples across the series of Hermione’s bad side poking out from time to time, getting a little mischievous where maybe you wouldn’t expect.
Micah: Naughty.
Andrew: Yeah, I was thinking that word; I didn’t want to use it. [laughs]
Eric: Wow.
Micah: Well, I mean, we’re not into Half-Blood Prince just yet.
Andrew: [laughs] But I do think she has her moments where she’s more inclined to break the rules, and she’s not breaking the rules here, but she’s letting her dark side come out in this moment. And if the Death Eaters have come up with a good communication system with the Dark Mark, why not use it on the good side too?
Laura: Yeah. And honestly, there are very, very many historical examples of this happening in secret societies both on the light and dark side of history communicating through coded messages and very ingenious contraptions that are used to communicate, so this is another example of something in Harry Potter that’s kind of lifted straight out of reality.
Micah: Let’s not forget, though, that the Order also has a way of communicating. It’s not by physically branding their members, but they do use a Patronus to communicate, which we’ll find out a little bit later on. So it’s actually really impressive on the part of Hermione that she thinks about creating a way that all of them can communicate, but in a way that really no one would notice.
Andrew and Laura: Yeah.
Micah: I think that’s what’s so great about this, is… I know there’s jokes about Ron and the fact that he actually has money, and so that in and of itself may surprise some people, but just the fact that, yeah, most people have change in their pockets, or at least they did back in the ’90s. We all have credit cards now, I know, so…
Eric: In this economy? Oh, that’s where you were going with that, okay.
[Laura and Micah laugh]
Andrew: But let’s talk about this whole coin idea in particular.
Micah: You don’t like it.
Andrew: I don’t like it, because…
Eric: What?
Andrew: This is what’s buggin’ me this week.
Micah: Oh, what’s buggin’ Andrew?
Andrew: Not buggin’ Micah; it’s what’s buggin’ Andrew. A coin is so easy to lose, and I’m not saying that somebody would find it and then figure out the hidden date and time on the coin, but we’ve all been there where we’ve left something in our pocket, and maybe we pull something else out of our pocket, and then that coin falls out along with it, a $5 bill falls out along with it, and then it’s lost. It might go through the wash. A coin is just so small and easy to lose. I don’t think it’s the best item to use.
Laura: I would lose it instantly.
Eric: Oh man, give yourself some credit.
Laura: No.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Look, if Neville doesn’t lose his, then it’s not an easy item to lose.
Andrew: That is shocking. Maybe Hermione put some glue on his so it won’t leave his pocket.
Eric: [laughs] There’s a little string on his…
Andrew: A little string, yeah.
Micah: So the big focal point of this chapter is really the Gryffindor versus Slytherin Quidditch match and all that it entails, and this is Ron’s first big go at being Keeper on the Gryffindor Quidditch team, and he is really anxious about this match, so much so that he won’t touch breakfast, which for Ron, we all know…
Eric: Oh.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: Boy likes to eat, right? So something’s wrong with him if he won’t even touch food, but I feel like we’ve all been in his shoes before, right?
Andrew: Oh, yeah.
Micah: Anxiety can be crippling under any circumstance. Doesn’t have to just be pertaining to performing in a big sporting event; it can be literally anything. And I felt for Ron in this moment. Anybody else?
Andrew: Oh, yeah, me too. Going into maybe a big presentation, a job interview, a date, maybe even a family event… anxiety comes up in a lot of different ways that can cripple you and might even prevent you from eating. Even just a busy work day. I was very busy yesterday; by 3:00 p.m., I was like, “Wow, I haven’t eaten anything yet today.”
Laura: Yeah, and I mean, it’s just amplified by the fact that he’s not quite ready yet.
Micah: No.
Laura: We’ve seen Ron kind of struggling at practices, and he gets there eventually, as we know, but at this point in time he’s not ready, and he knows he’s not ready, so that just makes it so much worse.
Micah: Yeah, and it is interesting to see how Harry reacts, because another big piece of this is the fact that on top of Ron being very anxious about this Quidditch match, he’s being taunted; he’s being teased by Slytherin. And Harry has had this experience since he started at Hogwarts, so this is nothing new to him; he can pretty much shrug it off, and he actually throws it back in their face at one point in this chapter. But it is interesting to see the different dynamic, where you have Harry, who’s been through this for a number of years and really doesn’t let it shake him, versus Ron, who this is his first matchup, and it’s clearly having an impact on him.
Andrew: And it’s not just playing Quidditch, merely. I mean, there’s multiple layers here. He’s playing Quidditch against Slytherin, who he hates. He’s playing with his teammates, who he wants to impress. He’s playing basically on a stage in front of the rest of the school; performing in front of other people is nerve-wracking in and of itself. But then you’re also trying to score a win for Gryffindor, and it’s your first game, and you’re not too confident in your skills. There’s a lot here to stress you out.
Eric: Your brothers are on the team. Also, if we go back to Mirror of Erised, Ron’s deepest desire of his heart was to be successful at Quidditch.
Andrew: And now he has to prove it to himself.
Eric and Micah: Yeah.
Micah: That’s such a great point.
Eric: He has to prove he deserves it. But he’s definitely haggard, too… well, Hagrid is back later on.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: But also, Ron is very haggard, and I kind of have a joke reading this. Ron just looks deathly ill, and I kind of joked that after he’s in his head this whole chapter, after he goes for his long walk, he should be able to see Thestrals.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Because he’s looked at the face of death. Literally this whole chapter he’s just terrified, terror-stricken, stricken about his performance, so we’ll have to see if that’s canon.
Micah: I do think that can demonstrate how impactful anxiety can be on somebody, even in a situation like this, where we would look at as readers and say, “Oh, in the grand scheme of things, that’s not that big of a deal.” But for a 15-year-old who, as was described, is trying to really go out there and impress his peers and not mess up in front of the entire school against presumably your House’s biggest rival, that’s a lot to put on the shoulders of somebody like Ron, and I’m sure if I was in his shoes, I would be going through the exact same emotions.
Andrew: I agree.
Micah: Now let’s have a little bit of a debate about what falls into the gamesmanship category versus what falls into the bullying category, because there’s quite a bit that goes on during this match, and I’m curious, where do we feel the line gets crossed? Or do we feel like Draco is acting within reason? Now, for me, I would argue that the psychological component of this is masterful on the part of Draco; he’s getting inside of the head of the newest Gryffindor team member, who, outside of Harry, has arguably the most important job on the team, because if Ron can’t protect the goal, that’s a major problem. So I actually don’t see Draco doing anything wrong within the context of the match itself, because in sports, you do see opposing teams’ fans wearing, saying, chanting, all sorts of antagonizing things, so it comes down to where we all feel the line is.
Andrew: Well, maybe it is a failure of Hogwarts and the rules around Quidditch to have allowed this rather than blaming it on Draco, but I think it’s different in this situation. It is inappropriate because they are kids, and “Weasley” is specifically in this song. They are targeting one particular person with this song. It’s just very direct.
Eric: Right, this isn’t “Oh, Gryffindor is going to get crushed…”
Andrew: Right, right.
Eric: ” … they can’t find their ass with a shovel…”
Andrew: Or Micah will appreciate this: I watch football games these days, and when a team is really losing, you start hearing them go, “Ohhh…” The joke, or the implication, is that it’s over for the losing team. So if they were doing something like that…
Eric: I never knew what that meant!
Andrew: Yeah, I think I have that right.
Eric: Oh, God.
Laura: Yeah, that’s the thing. When it’s collective ribbing, I think that’s acceptable. If it’s like, “Oh, boo Gryffindor, you guys suck,” kind of like what was said before, that’s one thing. But to specifically target one student like that, not okay. I mean, they’re not athletes making the big bucks.
Andrew: No.
Laura: When they’re out there raking their money in, they’re probably going to have thicker skin to be able to take it, but not right now. It’s not appropriate.
Andrew: And it’s his first game.
Eric: I just think it’s really interesting how extra this is, how much trouble Draco went through to execute this entire thing. He had to write a song. He had to teach it to the other Slytherins. I imagine late nights in common rooms; he’s like, “No!” And he has to play teacher…
Andrew: [laughs] “And a-one, two, three, four…”
Eric: Yeah, yeah, and he has little badges made for everybody. I think Draco cares for Ron. I don’t know.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: He puts a lot of thought and time and effort into destroying him.
Andrew: Got a hate crush on him?
Eric: It’s something. If you really look at it, this is all designed to deflect from Draco’s own inadequacies, his own Quidditch inadequacies.
Micah: I was just going to say that. It’s clear his talents lay elsewhere from the Quidditch pitch, because he is not good as a Seeker.
Eric: Right. No, he can’t face off against… he’s never won a match against Harry.
Micah: At least against Harry. I don’t know what his success rate is against the other Houses.
Eric: Yeah, I assume he caught a Snitch once or twice. Broken clock and all that.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: But he’s never won against Harry, and so instead, he’s going to focus on being as mean as possible, or giving his team an advantage, not by being the best Seeker, but by demoralizing the other team’s Keeper, and allowing his team to score, so it’s all a big smoke screen, so that everyone’s talking about Ron and nobody’s talking about him.
Micah: I also think, though, that Draco may be looking at the larger picture here, and we’ll talk a little bit about this when we get to him antagonizing the Weasley twins and Harry after the match is over, but he’s very good at knowing what he can get away with, and he knows that these pins that he creates – we saw an iteration of them in Goblet of Fire – that’s probably not crossing the line. The song, there’s probably different verses you could pull out, or different lines that you can pull out that do cross the line. But overall, within the grand scheme of an actual sporting event going on, and the fact that you have the entire Slytherin section singing it, he likely can get away with that, and he’s not the one that is conducting it, right? Isn’t it Pansy, at the end of the day, that is doing it?
Eric: It’s Pansy, yeah.
Micah: So it doesn’t actually fall on his shoulders. And I think his ultimate goal in all of this is to try and get the Gryffindor Quidditch team banned, to try and get Harry banned, because he knows that if they’re out of the picture, even if they lose this match, the likelihood of Slytherin being able to win at the end of the year is much greater.
Andrew and Laura: Yeah.
Andrew: And he’s right. I mean, it works in terms of getting Harry banned.
Laura: I also would not be surprised if Umbridge had her hands in this as well and kind of put Draco up to it.
Micah: Those sausage fingers.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: She’s the Kermit meme. “Do it.”
Eric and Laura: Yeah, yeah.
Andrew: [imitating Umbridge] “Do it! Hem-hem!”
Eric: Well, that’s an interesting point because she does… we keep getting confirmation that she really has it out for the Gryffindor Quidditch team.
Andrew: And she’s wearing Slytherin green, right?
Micah: She is.
Eric: Yeah, it makes her look even more like a toad.
Micah: Now, it was her House, as we know.
Laura: But to be honest, I think both Umbridge and Draco wanted Harry not to be able to play Quidditch for maybe different reasons, but they both wanted it.
Eric: Sometimes the odds are too great.
Laura: Yeah. It just feels like, especially knowing how close they do get over the course of this book with the Inquisitorial Squad and everything, I just feel like she was orchestrating some of that.
Micah: Yeah, I mean, I wouldn’t be surprised. Let’s not forget what she does at the very beginning of the book, right?
Andrew and Laura: Yeah.
Eric: Preemptive strike.
Micah: This would not be something that I would put past her at all. But one thing that I did notice when I was going through this chapter, and it was kind of in the back of my head because I remember it getting brought up that Quidditch in particular was very challenging for the author to write. I enjoyed reading it in this chapter, but I could understand why it would be a challenge. And so I was curious if the rest of you felt that way. Do you think it doesn’t come across well? Or can it only be in one instance in one book?
Eric: For me, it always works. It always works. I always like reading it. I understand how, from a writing standpoint, it can be difficult to diversify and make a different… make a match really stand out. But I have no notes whatsoever about how Quidditch is executed throughout the entire book series. I just really like it.
Andrew: For me, I just… look, I enjoy Quidditch. I think it’s cool. It’s exciting; it’s fun. I do skim through the Quidditch scenes. I’m looking out for some key details, but I’m kind of moving through it faster than I’m reading the rest of the chapter, just because it is fast-moving and a little hard for me to follow. And what am I getting out of it, really? Quidditch match.
Micah: Sports, bro.
Andrew: Sport… oh, yeah. “Ohhh…” I should be singing that while reading.
[Laura and Micah laugh]
Andrew: Maybe that’ll make it more interesting to me. No, but I just need to know who wins and if anything pivotal happens.
Micah: That’s fair.
Laura: So that’s my thing; I love reading Quidditch when there’s some kind of focal point that has to do with the greater story also happening during Quidditch, like “Weasley Is Our King.” This is a great chapter. Also Dementors, for example, in Prisoner of Azkaban. But I’ll be honest, if it’s simply a Quidditch match that has no defining story arc moment apart from Gryffindor won or Gryffindor lost, I don’t care as much about those. I think it comes across, especially the later you get in the series, how much she did not enjoy writing these scenes, so it comes across in the way you read too. Also, Quidditch as a sport really doesn’t make a lot of sense; that’s why they had to adjust it for Quidditch Champions that came out last year.
[Micah laughs]
Laura: They had to kind of balance the rules, because Quidditch, when you really think about it – and Micah, you probably know better than anyone else here – there’s a lot about it that doesn’t make a lot of sense. [laughs]
Micah: I do like what you’re saying, though, because if you look to the last book, yeah, we get the Quidditch World Cup, but that’s it. She basically writes Quidditch out of the rest of Goblet of Fire, because there’s the Triwizard Tournament, so that’s a convenient loophole for her to not have to write about Quidditch. But you would anticipate that she would, though, right? Because they have one of the best-known Quidditch players in the world in Viktor Krum at Hogwarts, but yet we only get him in the first couple of chapters of Goblet of Fire. And then Order of the Phoenix, Harry gets banned from Quidditch, so that helps to not have him involved. Obviously, Ron is, but yeah, it’s interesting. But it’s cool that there was a sport that was invented and that we do get the chance to read it.
Andrew: [laughs] Fair enough.
Micah: Yeah, it’s no Gobstones, but it’s something. Let’s not forget there was an entire college sport that was created out of Quidditch. One of the challenges for Harry in this match is not Slytherin; it’s Ron and his performance, and Harry’s performance actually starts to be affected because of Ron’s struggles throughout the course of this match. And of course, it is lucky at the end of the day that Harry ends up catching the Snitch, but it does show you how one teammate’s performance or lack thereof can have an impact on another, especially when that person is one of your closest friends.
Andrew: Yeah, he naturally wants to look out for Ron, but what’s funny about this is that if Harry actually kept his eye on the ball – or the Snitch – he may have been able to end the game faster, meaning he would end Ron’s suffering faster as well.
Eric: Ohh.
Andrew: But by just staring at Ron and getting focused on this chant, he’s slowing down the potential end of the match and letting Slytherin win, potentially!
Eric: Eh, you see it when you see it.
Laura: You know what I think is funny? I wonder if Ron was kind of doing the same thing and focusing on Harry, being like, “Please catch the Snitch, man. Just end this.”
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: “Shoo! Go! Go look for it!”
Eric: It’s sad to see, honestly, because the first one that gets in, the first goal that gets in was right through the middle hoop, and from what little I’ve played of Quidditch Champions, I know that the middle hoop is the easiest one to defend, so that’s a low blow. And in general, just… Ron is dealing with everything. He’s overwhelmed.
Micah: Laura, you have a real world analogy for us.
Laura: Oh, yeah. So yeah, clearly Harry, I guess, hasn’t heard a pre-flight safety instruction video. “Put your oxygen mask on before helping others.”
[Eric laughs]
Laura: Harry, what are you doing? You can’t help him. There’s nothing you can do for him right now.
Eric: Yeah. Well, it’s the Beaters’ job, right? To get… if you have a weak Keeper, you have to weaken the opposing team’s Chasers, and the way you do that is with Bludgers. So there are teammates that can help Ron, but Harry is not one of them.
Laura: Yeah, they’re his brothers. [laughs]
Eric: But the problem here is that Harry just is so hurt by the fact that this is happening to his friend, and I don’t think he can believe how extra it all is either.
Laura: Yeah, it’s pretty ridiculous.
Eric: Yeah. The one line that doesn’t work for me, by the way, in the whole chant is “Weasley was born in a bin.” That, to me, is a bit extra. That is just particularly low classism. It’s not what you would find in an average school chant. It’s not the line you want all the students repeating and repeating and repeating. I think it should be off the table.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: It does feel very ’90s teen melodrama to me, though.
Andrew: The song on a whole, or just the line?
Micah: The line.
Eric: “Weasley was born in a bin”?
Micah: No, I mean the song too. It’s not out of place. I agree with you; it is extra, and it’s certainly not something that should be said.
Eric: I mean, they could’ve said…
Micah: But look, there are adults present that could have…
Eric: Stopped it? Yeah.
Micah: … stopped it, and none of them chose to. I mean, presumably the entire staff is present, right?
Eric: Honestly, yeah. The lack of action from any of the adults that entire match is deafening.
Laura: Yeah, well, I mean, how Umbridge reacts here in the next few pages, we’re going to cover…
Micah: She was probably singing.
Laura: Yeah, that’s the funny thing. This whole, I mean, bullying session was happening in front of the entire school and she said nothing, but she’s going to lose her mind over someone defending his mother’s honor.
Eric: Yep.
Micah: Right. All right, well, as Laura alluded to earlier, usually there are bigger plot points to these Quidditch matches than just the matches themselves, and boy, do we get a showdown post-Gryffindor/Slytherin between Draco, George, and Harry, and Draco really uses the opportunity to verbally assault Molly and Arthur. He calls Molly fat and ugly, he calls Arthur a useless loser, and he talks about the Burrow, the fact that it stinks, and perhaps Harry doesn’t notice that the Burrow stinks because Harry’s mother’s house stank as well.
Eric: The implication being because she’s Muggle-born.
Micah: Exactly. Now, that’s the straw that breaks the camel’s back, because there’s a lot of restraint that’s happening prior to this, but once that line gets delivered, all bets are off. And honestly, we’re talking about teenagers, so as much as they may want to restrain themselves or have their friends restrain them, at some point, stuff’s going to go down, right?
Andrew: Yeah, we even see this in adult sporting events – hockey, football – these guys can’t control their tempers, and they start fighting, which I always find so immature when you’re getting paid. But like we were talking about earlier, you shouldn’t have to put up with this type of thing. You shouldn’t have to put up with this type of taunting when you’re a student just doing this for fun. And of course, these things that Draco says are really awful.
Eric: Yeah, they have no place in the kind of world in which good people live. You can make the case, “Oh, it’s talk, whatever,” but Malfoy, who is an extremely privileged individual, he’s saying all this with impunity. He’s saying all this with absolutely no repercussions coming his way. And I think it would inspire any reasonable person’s attempt at fighting for the honor of the people that he continues to slight and to really put him in his place. It needs to happen. He’s just going to keep behaving this way because he’s been allowed full reign to do so up until this point.
Micah: Yeah, he really has.
Laura: I feel like… and I think I’ve said this before. I’m never an advocate for violence; I think it’s wrong. However, there are some people like Draco who have never been on the receiving end of someone’s physical reaction to their BS, and it shows. People who have never faced the consequences for running off at the mouth about things they shouldn’t be doing usually end up finding out. Draco has not found out yet.
Andrew: But the thing that gets me about this, and the reason I’m not okay with Harry physically fighting Draco, is because McGonagall has told him twice now to not give Umbridge any excuses to punish him. And I know tempers are high, but he needs to keep that in mind, or else he’s going to get in trouble again in front of the whole school.
Laura: [sighs] Yeah, but I’m just thinking about the fact that these are teenagers and their mothers are being insulted by someone who has sour grapes that they just lost a game, right?
Andrew: So how about just returning his verbal attacks with your own verbal attacks? Why get physical?
Laura: Sure, I fully agree with you, and I think if someone were talking smack about my mom to me today, at 36 years old, I think I’m a little more equipped to deal with that in a more rational way. But when you’re a teenager, and your hormones are all over the place and tensions are high… I’m not saying it’s right, but it makes total sense that it happened.
Eric: I think if a 15-year-old insulted my mom today, I would still hit them.
[Laura and Micah laugh]
Andrew: I would be like, “You’re an immature, stupid brat; I’m ignoring you,” I think. Around the neighborhood you see kids say stupid stuff. You just let it go.
Eric: You want to believe that you’d be above it, but Draco just knows how to push the buttons. That’s why he does it.
Andrew: Yeah, I’ll give him credit for that.
Micah: And Laura, you said you wouldn’t be surprised if somebody in particular instigated this, or maybe planted the seed inside of Draco’s head.
Laura: Totally. I think it makes a lot of sense; they have a shared goal, right? And we already know that Draco is predisposed to saddling up to whoever’s going to make Harry’s life more difficult. Think about Rita Skeeter last year. Draco is still very much operating under the mentality of “The enemy of my enemy is my friend.” He doesn’t see Umbridge for the danger she presents at this point because the consequences haven’t really reared their ugly head yet. They will in a couple years.
Eric: Right, she’s punishing the right people for him to please him.
Laura: Yep. And I mean, again, she’s Undersecretary to Fudge. Fudge is in Lucius’s pocket. It’s really easy to connect the dots. I’m like Charlie Day over here with my yarn board.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Micah: We should get you a yarn board that you can put up behind you.
Laura: I would.
Micah: Connecting those threads.
Laura: I would do it. [laughs]
Micah: Yeah, so I guess we never get a proper handshake line after the Quidditch match, which usually happens in most sports; not all of them, but that is usually a pleasantry that’s observed by teams afterwards, but not in this case.
Eric: When I was in tee-ball, all the kids would try and squeeze the hands as hard as possible.
Andrew: Yeah, be a fun way to tease each other.
Micah: And let’s not forget, Harry is also… we played the Time-Turner segment earlier; he’s coming off of getting hit in the small of the back with a Bludger after the match was over. And we’re going to talk about punishment and how it is doled out on the part of one Dolores Umbridge, but somebody else is ready to dole out some punishment for Harry and George, and it’s McGonagall.
[Eric laughs]
Micah: She is not happy at all with these two, and she’s ready to give them a week’s worth of detention, but not under Umbridge’s watch, because Dolores is about to enter the room and flex her authority muscle. She’s passed a new Educational Decree giving her authority to do so, and as if the end of the Quidditch match wasn’t deflating enough, now we have to watch Umbridge dole out her punishment to George, Harry, and Fred, by the way, and we’ll talk about that, because that’s just BS.
Andrew: Eh.
Micah: No, you don’t think so? Well, we’ll get to it. But one thing that I found really interesting was that we learn in this chapter that Umbridge was planning to not allow the Gryffindor Quidditch team to reform in the first place, and McGonagall went over her head to Dumbledore and got that all sorted out. Now, I mean, I know why, but it’s really not fair.
Andrew: No, it’s not fair.
Micah: And what reasoning do you have? [laughs]
Andrew: And I’m glad McGonagall and Dumbledore worked together to fix the situation, and I wanted to highlight that they did fix the situation behind the scenes! And I just wanted to point this out because this underscores a previous point I think I’ve made in recent weeks, that Dumbledore is doing stuff behind the scenes. He’s not sitting there twiddling his thumbs in his office, doing absolutely nothing.
Eric: I think he’s mostly doing that. I think he’s mostly twiddling his thumbs, then occasionally somebody is loud enough that he has to pay attention.
Andrew: [laughs] Okay.
Micah: I think his hands are tied to some extent, though, in all of this. I mean, we all know he’s a very smart man; I think he’s very cautious in terms of playing his hand.
Andrew: Yeah, and he doesn’t want to rock the boat too much.
Eric: He’s absolutely… yes, he is a “Pick your battles” kind of guy, for sure. It just shows what’s really going on here, blatant favoritism, blatant sabotaging of the people that Umbridge doesn’t like are getting punished. And Dumbledore, much like he did with Harry’s trial, showed up, said his bit, and proved that Umbridge did not have a leg to stand on, and it’s only the last time because now there’s an Educational Decree giving Umbridge the authority that she did not have earlier when she tried to not reinstate Gryffindor. So it’s a real shame, because essentially she made Dumbledore get involved about this small thing, and it actually ended up pointing… she credits McGonagall with pointing out to her how deficient her power was before, so what are you going to do?
Micah: I don’t know.
Laura: Yeah, well, and that’s her thing, right? It’s like she comes up against one barrier, “Oh, I’m not allowed to do that here? Okay, let me just go pass another Educational Decree and we’ll fix that.” I mean, that’s the approach.
Micah: And the consequence in all of this is not just detention; it’s a lifetime ban from playing Quidditch at Hogwarts, which seems so extreme. [laughs] And the reason why I said this is this is a physical altercation following a sporting event where Beaters and Bludgers are a real thing.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: And Andrew, you said this before: Fights happen in sports all the time. I think suspension, sure. Detention, okay. But banning them for life? I couldn’t even probably point to a situation in sports where that’s happened.
Andrew: Does the wizarding world…? I guess they do; they have a judicial branch. I feel like this is one of those things that if it got challenged in the court, it wouldn’t actually pass. And the reason I say this is because… lifetime ban from an Educational Decree? When Harry leaves Hogwarts, he’s still banned from Quidditch? Is that what we’re made to believe here? [laughs]
Eric: Look, the punishment has to fit the crime! It has to be a proportional response. She absolutely cannot affect post-academic career. In Umbridge’s capacity as High Inquisitor of Hogwarts, she can’t touch Harry after he leaves Hogwarts. She can’t do it, at the very least.
Laura: Right, but she wants to make it a lifetime ban so that he can never come back as an adult and play Quidditch there. [laughs]
Andrew: And I think just from a storytelling perspective, the extreme decision here, a lifetime ban is meant to just be emblematic of how powerful Umbridge thinks she is. She is all knowing. She is all powerful. She can do anything, including lifetime bans from anything.
Micah: But she’s picking on students at the end of the day. That’s what’s so comical about all this. She thinks she has all this power, and I guess in a way she does, but she’s getting her highs off of making students’ lives miserable, kids’ lives miserable.
Eric: Well, she doesn’t have a lot of maturity. That’s just where she is.
Laura: No. I mean, it’s clear she’s a miserable person. I mean, if you make your entire life’s mission about making other people’s lives miserable, there’s probably something to that. Call is coming from inside the house.
Micah: Yeah, she could use something, but we won’t talk about that.
[Laura laughs]
Micah: Fred. Fred also receives a lifetime ban, though he did not participate.
[Eric and Micah laugh]
Eric: You can’t… look, and he even…
Micah: Is she afraid that he’s going to try and switch places with George?
Andrew: Ooh, actually, that’s a great theory. That makes sense.
Eric: Oh, I love that. That’s even worse! Legally, from a legal perspective, if he didn’t do the crime, he can’t do the time!
Andrew: Yeah, but see, Umbridge is right. He is going to do some sort of crime next Quidditch game to get back at her banning George.
Eric: Oh, you can’t… but even if that were true, you can’t imprison people before they do the crime!
Andrew: I’m with Umbridge here. Fred absolutely would have retaliated in some way at the next Quidditch game, if not sooner.
Eric: He says as much.
Andrew: And by pre-banning, let’s call it, Fred from Quidditch for life as well, this gets ahead of the issue and keeps him behaving better than he would otherwise, because maybe there’s a part of Fred and George and Harry that think, “Well, if I stay on their good side for X amount of time, she’ll un-ban us from Quidditch.”
Eric: This is as bad a call as putting all the Slytherins in the dungeons.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Absolutely meritless behavior, prejudiced and just not at all within reason.
Andrew: She’s doing them a favor, though, because by being banned from Quidditch, now they have time to work on their business.
Eric: Now they can try and make her life more miserable.
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: Malicious compliance.
Micah: Well, I do want to talk about that in just a minute, but let’s talk about Crabbe for a second, because when we’re talking about punishing students for things that they did during – actually, not even during – after this match was over, Crabbe only ends up receiving lines for assaulting Harry with a Bludger after the match was over, so it’s very clear how punishment is being distributed here.
Eric: Oh, yeah.
Micah: Because if I were McGonagall, I would have strongly advocated that if Harry, Fred, and George are being banned, Crabbe should be as well.
Laura: Yep.
Micah: No reason why he should not have received the same punishment.
Eric: But the newest Educational Decree makes it so that Umbridge, who has the supreme authority, doesn’t ever need to be challenged on these wrong calls. She doesn’t ever need to come up with some kind of rubric for how a more extreme behavior warrants a more extreme kind of retaliation; she just 100% gets to choose and decide what the punishment is, and so she’s playing favorites.
Andrew: I’m also blaming Hooch here, too, because shouldn’t she have blown the whistle on Crabbe and punished him in some way? Surely she has authority too. I know the game was over, but…
Laura: Yeah, and we have seen her do that before too.
Micah: She was dealing with him, though, when the melee broke out, and she’s the one who actually hits Harry with the spell that gets him off of Draco.
Andrew: So all the more reason for her to punish him.
Micah: Aren’t there other referees too?
Eric: Well, because… yeah, there should be a lot more refs in this game, a game with 14 players that are all on their broom…
Andrew: In a huge field. I mean, in football, right, Micah? I mean, all the referees on the field.
Micah: So many referees.
Andrew: Oh my goodness, so many.
Micah: Well, Umbridge ends up deflating the entire mood of Gryffindor House despite their win over Slytherin, and Ron comes back; he’s deflated, and he’s been out traipsing through the snow. We talked about his anxiety earlier; despite them winning, he just thinks he did a terrible job and let everybody down because he let a couple goals through. I say, what did Oliver Wood do in his first match as Keeper? Let’s compare.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: I’m sure Ron didn’t do that bad of a job at the end of the day. But I wanted to wrap up by asking – and this actually ties into the point that was brought up earlier about Fred and George getting to spend more time on their joke shop – by banning Harry from Quidditch, does Umbridge unknowingly give him more time to plot against her?
Eric: And more incentive.
Micah: Well, definitely more incentive.
Andrew: Oops! But even if she was worried that he would be doing such a thing, I think she’s feeling pretty confident at this point that she could catch him plotting against her.
Micah: Maybe.
Andrew: That’s also her ego.
Eric: Right, she’s power hungry.
Laura: Yeah. Well, now that she has access to the fireplaces and she’s intercepting people’s mail, I think she probably is feeling a little overconfident and like she has eyes everywhere. She’s not that clever. She’s really not.
Micah: No.
Laura: That’s why the power grab.
Micah: All right, well, that wraps up the Chapter by Chapter discussion.
Andrew: Oh, but Micah, give us some good news. I can’t take it anymore!
Micah: [whispers] He’s back.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Andrew: [gasps] Already? I thought that happened later.
Micah: Hagrid.
Andrew: Oh, oh, oh.
Micah: Who are you talking about?
Andrew: Oh, goodness. Okay.
Micah: The one saving grace at the end of the chapter is that Hagrid has returned. The light is on in his cabin.
Eric: Well, that could be anybody feeding the dog.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: That’s true. That’s actually very true.
Eric: No, Hermione leaps to a completely unsubstantiated conclusion. She gives Harry false hope. What if it is just Grubbly-Plank?
Micah: Did anybody else have the feeling, though, that I did when reading this, given everything that went on in this chapter, are you almost like, “Who cares?”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: No, actually, I was so relieved. I was so excited for some good news, yeah.
Micah: Were you? Okay.
Eric: For me, it hits right. It hits exactly as it should…
Andrew: “Who cares?” Ouch.
Eric: … which is like, “Oh, a friend of ours that we were genuinely worried about is going to be okay.”
Andrew: Yeah. Well, and think about reading this for the first time, just clearly Hagrid has been a major presence in this series thus far, and for him to be gone for so long is worrying, not just for the trio, but for the reader too.
Micah: That’s true.
Andrew: So to have him back amidst all this bad news, it’s comforting for everybody.
Eric: Grawp absolutely sucks, but Hagrid is our fiercest ally.
Micah: For sure.
Superlative of the Week
Micah: All right, getting to our MVP style question of the week, I wanted to know what is our best guess at what McGonagall wanted to really say to Umbridge in her office with Harry and George present.
Andrew: I’m going to keep this kid-friendly. I think she wanted to say, “See you next Tuesday.”
[Laura laughs]
Eric: Is that a common saying?
Andrew: Some of our adult listeners might get that. Some might not. Hopefully you understand. [laughs]
Eric: Wow. Okay.
Andrew: I just had to explain to Eric and Micah off-air.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: Thank you, I consider myself very enlightened now. I’m very happy with that. Okay, so my McGonagall response to Umbridge; I wrote it in all caps, and I’m going to try and do an impression of Jim Dale doing McGonagall. “DOLORES, I SWEAR, IF YOU HEM-HEM ONE MORE TIME I WILL SHOVE A LOZENGE SO FAR DOWN YOUR THROAT THAT THE FARTHEST REACHES OF CORNELIUS FUDGE’S POWER WOULDN’T BE ABLE TO GET IT OUT!” I don’t know if that was all over the place.
Andrew: [laughs] That’s good, and a great analogy, too.
Micah: That was good.
Laura: Yep, well done.
Eric: Thank you.
Micah: I decided to go with, “I can turn into a cat, and the possibilities are endless.”
Laura: Oh, man.
Andrew: [laughs] Scratch her up quite a bit will be my guess?
Micah: Cut her throat.
Laura: Or no, come into her office and one at a time, nudge each of those cat plates off the wall while making direct eye contact.
Andrew: Oooh.
Laura: Eric, you know what I’m talking about. [laughs]
Eric: I know exactly what you’re talking about. Oh, McGonagall the menace. Just be awful.
Laura: And I said “Evanesco,” as in she should Evanesco Umbridge.
Micah: Yes, send her to poop mountain.
[Everyone laughs]
Laura: Send her where she belongs.
Micah: She’s the biggest piece of [censored] in the series.
[Everyone laughs]
Micah: That’s where she belongs. Good call, Laura.
Eric: This chapter really makes me think that there’s always an opportunity for a good offensive Silencio, right? Just literally silence an opponent; just literally make their voice go away for a little bit.
Lynx Line
Micah: All right, well, it is now time for the Lynx Line, where we asked our patrons: If you had to chant something at Malfoy to distract him while playing Quidditch, what would it be? So turning the tables here on him, and boy, did we get some good answers.
Andrew: Rachel actually didn’t have a chant, but she had another great idea. She said,
“I wouldn’t yell anything, but I’d slip a ferret into the Slytherin Quidditch locker room and arrange for as many people in the stands to have ferrets as well. Bring back some memories for Draco.”
Yeah, trigger him.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: Ah, yes. Nothing like triggering past traumas, yes.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Zachary says,
“Always with two goons at his side
Never got a motorbike ride
Quite the thorn in one’s side
Harry Potter’s itch
Never can catch the Snitch
Daddy’s money can’t buy a win
Always caught in Harry’s tailwind
Harry Potter’s itch
Nepotism at its best
He enjoys a Malkin’s sweater vest
Never gets past the test
Harry Potter’s itch
Daddy’s money can buy the team
But not talent, so it seems
That’s why Gryffindors all beam
Harry Potter’s itch
Harry Potter’s itch
Harry Potter’s itch
Draco cannot catch the Snitch
Harry Potter’s itch”
Andrew and Laura: Wow.
Laura: Bravo.
Micah: That was really well done.
Eric: I’m honestly surprised to have avoided the B-word in all of those rhymes.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: Well, I think it was implied. I read it as being implied.
Andrew: Ohh, okay.
Micah: Maybe that is not necessarily what Zach was intending, but it works.
Eric: Bravo, Zach.
Micah: Jen says, to the tune of, “Hey, Mickey”… do you want to do this together?
[Eric beatboxes]
Micah: “Hey, Malfoy, you’re so fine. You’re so fine, you blow my mind. Hey, Malfoy.”
[Laura laughs]
Micah: “Accompanied by Slytherin cheerleaders and a fireworks display from Weasley Wizard Wheezes. Sometimes you need to play into people’s egos to distract them.”
Laura: Oh, that was so good.
Andrew: Great, now that’s going to be running through my head for the rest of the night.
[Laura and Micah laugh]
Andrew: “Hey, Malfoy, you’re so fine. You’re so fine, you blow my mind. Hey, Malfoy! Hey, Malfoy!”
Micah: Can I just say, speaking of Malfoy, don’t you think, Andrew, we need the Tom Felton reaction video to what happened on The White Lotus this past weekend?
Andrew: Yes, definitely.
Laura: Yep.
Eric: Wow.
Andrew: There’s a Tom Felton reaction video to that?
Micah: No, we need one is what I’m saying.
Laura: There should be.
Andrew: Oh, oh, oh. Okay, yes, agreed.
Laura: So he can be like, “Father, what have you done?”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: “Father, you have forsaken me.”
Micah: “A peacock escaped from the Manor.”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Laura: Cassandra says,
“Bottle blonde, bottle blonde
Limp wand, limp wand
Malfoy, Malfoy
Mama’s boy, Mama’s boy”
Andrew: Nice.
Laura: That’s pretty to the point. I like it.
Andrew: Xavier said,
“Malfoy, Malfoy, always loud
But your skills should make you far from proud
You think you’re clever, think you’re sly
But your Seeker moves? They say goodbye!
You can’t catch the Snitch; you’re too slow
Your broom’s more wobbly than you’d like to show
You talk a big game, you boast and jeer
But everyone knows your Quidditch skills instill fear
So keep flying high, keep acting grand
But we know you’ll never take that final stand
Malfoy, Malfoy, you’ve had your day
But in the end, you’ll fade away!”
Laura: Why am I imagining a Thanos snap of Draco just fading away?
Eric: Oh, that would be cool. “Mr. Stark, I don’t feel so good.”
[Laura laughs]
Eric: James has another rhyme.
“Malfoy, Malfoy cannot win
Despite the gold his dad puts in
Fancy broomsticks don’t mean shit
When you’re such an amateur git
So taunt the others, don’t hold up
You’ll never win the Quidditch Cup”
Micah: Looks like I got another “Hey Mickey” here. [laughs] Gilderoy Fangirl says,
“Hey, Draco, you’re full of slime. So full of slime, it blows my mind. Hey, Draco.”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Micah: “Oh, Draco, what a pity you can’t understand
You’re a nepo baby, not a Quidditch man
Oh, Nepo, it’s not pretty
You have zero fans
It’s guys like you, Nepo
You’re going to lose, Nepo, lose, Nepo
It’s what you do, Nepo”
Laura: I love that one. And our last one comes from Kayla, who says,
“Malfoy, Malfoy thinks he’s so coy
Thinks he’s that boy that all girls enjoy
Malfoy, Malfoy thinks he’ll bring joy
By being that boy to catch the golden toy
Malfoy, Malfoy, we shall destroy
For being that boy who only annoys”
Andrew: Well done.
Eric: We have some very good scriveners.
Laura: Yeah, well done, y’all.
Micah: Amazing. “Hey Mickey” seems to be the song that suits Draco so well.
Laura: Right?
Andrew: [laughs] “Hey Draco.”
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: Thanks, everybody, for those contributions, and don’t forget, you can participate in the Lynx Line every week by becoming a patron at Patreon.com/MuggleCast. And if you have any feedback about today’s discussion, you can email or send a voice memo that you record on your phone to MuggleCast@gmail.com. Please do send them in as soon as possible, because our next Muggle Mail episode will be Episode 700! And next week we’ll discuss Order of the Phoenix Chapter 20, “Hagrid’s Tale,” because Hagrid is back, and we’re all very excited, Micah.
Micah: And he got a tail.
Andrew: And he got a tail, wow.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: Not a pig tail.
Laura: Max that.
Quizzitch
Andrew: Now it’s time for Quizzitch!
[Quizzitch music plays]
Eric: This week’s Quizzitch question: The abbreviation DA may most commonly refer to this position as chief prosecutor in a United States criminal case. What is the position with those initials that has a history stretching back to 1813? The correct answer, District Attorney. Some people said Defense Attorney; that’s wrong. District Attorney. 90% of folks with the correct answer said they did not look this up. Hey, we got an easy one. And this week’s winners are A Healthy Breeze; ADA Casey Novak… dun-dun.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: Christa B; Deep Cover Auror; Dumbledore’s Rizzler Potion; Hedwig’s reproachful look at Harry; Jordan Meisner-Davis; Kennah Dawn; Legal Eagle; Navy Electronics Technician; Nerdy Gryffindor; Peter Johnson; The Hungry, Hungry Hufflepuff; Through Goes Hamilton; Tofu Tom (IS BACK)…
Micah: Yes.
Eric: And finally, Try Pleading the Fifth on Veritaserum. Wow, fun usernames as well this week. Here is next week’s Quizzitch question: What ice hockey player had a rule named after him – this was in 2008 – after he displayed unsportsmanlike tactics in an attempt to intimidate goalie Martin Brodeur by waving his hands and hockey stick in his face? Submit your answer to us on the Quizzitch form located on the MuggleCast website, MuggleCast.com/Quizzitch, or if you’re on the website checking out transcripts or must listens or anything that you might be doing there, click on “Quizzitch” from the main nav.
Andrew: I can’t believe we didn’t call Quidditch “Quizzitch” once during the discussion today. That seemed inevitable, because it tends to happen on other episodes.
Eric: Yeah, a lot.
Andrew: Check out our other weekly podcasts, What the Hype?! and Millennial, for more pop culture and real world talk from the four of us. In our latest episode of What the Hype?!, Pam, Eric, and I are looking at what made the Hunger Games trilogy so popular, and also looking ahead to the upcoming spinoff book Sunrise on the Reaping, all about Haymitch during the second Quarter Quell. Very much looking forward to that new book being released this week. And on Millennial, we hosted a listener feedback episode where listeners would confess some of their secrets to us, and we tried to help them out as best as we Millennials can. These shows are brought to you by Muggles like you, and there’s lots of great ways to help us out. Visit MuggleCastMerch.com to get official MuggleCast gear. And also, I plugged Patreon earlier; that is the best way to help us out. Patreon.com/MuggleCast is where you can become a MuggleCast member and get access to bonus MuggleCast episodes. You can get ad-free episodes, you can get early access to episodes, and lots of other magical perks, all at Patreon.com/MuggleCast. Lastly, if you enjoy the show and think other Muggles would too, please send an owl to your Harry Potter-loving friends and say, “Hey, check out MuggleCast. They’re also talking about the new Harry Potter TV show that’s happening.” And please cast a five star review in your favorite podcast app. That does it for this week’s episode. Thanks, everybody, for listening. I’m Andrew.
Eric: I’m Eric.
Micah: I’m Micah.
Laura: And I’m Laura.
Andrew: “Oh Malfoy, you’re so fine. You make…” wait, no, I don’t want to do that one. Hold on. “Hey, Malfoy, you’re so fine. You’re so fine, you blow my mind. Hey, Malfoy.” Bye, everyone.
[Laura and Micah laugh]
Eric: Finally got that beat down.