Transcript for MuggleCast Episode #727, Weasley Gossip Hour (HBP Chapter 5, An Excess of Phlegm)
Cold Open
Micah: I wonder, does Rufus even know that Dumbledore is about to show up?
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Micah: It’s, what, one o’clock in the morning at this point?
Show Intro
[Show music plays]
Andrew Sims: Welcome to MuggleCast, your weekly ride into the world of Harry Potter. I’m Andrew.
Eric Scull: I’m Eric.
Micah Tannenbaum: I’m Micah.
Laura Tee: I’m Laura.
Andrew: And we’re your Harry Potter friends, here to talk about the books and the movies and the upcoming TV show, so make sure you press that follow button in your favorite podcast app so you never miss a week. And this week, put down that telescope; it looks to be tampered with, and nothing good will come of trying to use it. Chapter by Chapter continues with Chapter 5 of Half-Blood Prince, “An Excess of Phlegm,” and we have our first reactions to the brand new full cast Harry Potter audiobooks. And helping us with our discussion today, Slug Club guest, Kathlyn. Welcome, Kathlyn, to the show!
Kathlyn: Hello.
Andrew: It’s a pleasure to have you on. You just celebrated a birthday, actually, and you’re wearing your MuggleCast shirt. Check, check, check. Can we get your fandom ID, please?
Kathlyn: Yeah, so my favorite book is Half-Blood Prince, believe it or not, and favorite movie is Philosopher’s Stone, or should I say Sorcerer’s Stone? And I’m a Hufflepuff, no idea what my Ilvermorny House is, and my Patronus is a wood mouse. And for what would get me into the Slug Club, it’s not really a talent, but my dance teacher was Paul Harris, who’s the choreographer for wands in the Harry Potter films. So I guess it’s who you know.
Laura: Ah! That’s awesome.
Eric: Oh my God. What dance school did you attend? What was this for?
Kathlyn: So I studied my university degree at Mountview Academy of Theatre Arts in London, which is a drama school, and he came in to be our dance teacher and teach us period dances.
Andrew: Wow.
Kathlyn: But he did make us watch a very long DVD of all his work, and there was lots of Harry Potter stuff in there.
[Eric and Kathlyn laugh]
Andrew: Well, if you’ve got Harry Potter in your credits, I guess I would show that off too.
Eric: I love this as an answer to what would get you in the Slug Club, because it is who you know sometimes.
Andrew: Yes, definitely.
Eric: So it makes a lot of sense.
Andrew: Eric, you actually worked with this choreographer, right? Paul Harris?
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: No, you did! I’m looking at pictures! He’s training you.
Eric: No, no, no… the thing is…
Micah: No, the choreographer worked with Eric.
Andrew: Oh.
[Kathlyn laughs]
Eric: I had to post… Paul tried, okay? Mr. Harris tried to get me to… the thing is, I posted two images. They’re going on our Discord. Heck, maybe they’ll go in the show notes. But it’s because I didn’t and couldn’t post the video of me being awful at learning wand choreography from the Harry Potter Celebration in 2015. So this is ten years ago, ten years since I embarrassed myself on stage in Orlando.
Andrew: How are you bad with a wand, though? I don’t… what do you mean?
Eric: Thank you.
Andrew: You were just making the wrong moves?
Eric: Yeah, I turned left and did… the fifth of the five steps of the wand choreography is where you do a rotate, and I completely dyslexia’d it and went the other way.
Andrew: Oh, okay.
Eric: So you see a stage of people who had never done this before – he was training groups of people at a time – all moving in sync after three minutes, except I’m completely backwards and reversed. [laughs]
Andrew: Oh.
Eric: But I have the confidence and the stare of having just done something amazing.
Andrew: You do look confident, yeah.
Eric: Thank you. I appreciate it.
Andrew: Better luck next time.
Eric: By the way, Kathlyn, where do you hail from?
Kathlyn: So I’m from Aberdeen, Scotland, but I live in Essex, England.
Andrew: Okay, cool.
Eric: Love it.
Kathlyn: The UK. [laughs]
Andrew: The UK, yeah. Well, welcome. And thank you for staying up late. It’s currently quite late there, so we appreciate you staying up late.
Kathlyn: Thank you for having me.
News
Andrew: We do have some news to discuss: We were lucky to get a preview of the Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone full cast audiobook. At least a couple of us have listened to it. First impressions?
Micah: I really enjoyed it. I’ve listened to a couple of chapters so far, and I will say that it’s an immersive experience. It’s not just like listening to Jim Dale or Stephen Fry, because this audiobook really takes you into the story. I’m still getting accustomed to some of the characters and the voice actors – I know we’re going to talk a little bit about Hugh Laurie – but overall, it’s a great listening experience. In terms of characters who stood out to me so far, Mark Addy as Hagrid, I think maybe because he sounds so much like Robbie Coltrane; that’s what’s kind of endeared me to him. I also loved him as Robert Baratheon on Game of Thrones, amongst many other things that he’s been in.
Andrew: I was blown away. Full cast, full sound effects, music… the whole nine yards. It really feels like you’re listening to a movie; you just can’t see it. It blew past my expectations. I’ve listened to three hours of Book 1. I think the actor playing Draco is an early standout; he’s played by Jude Farrant. Also very cool to hear Arabella Stanton as Hermione. She’s also going to be the Hermione in the Harry Potter TV show, so it’s almost like getting a sneak peek of her in the Harry Potter TV show.
Eric: Right.
Andrew: And like I mentioned, music, sound effects, background effects, small reactions from characters that you hear as other characters are talking…
Eric: Mm.
Micah: Just like that.
Andrew: Oh yeah, just like what Eric did. A very cool moment to me was when all the kids saw Hogwarts for the first time; there was this collective “Whoa” from everybody. It really builds on the book in wonderful ways. I even was listening today; the Hogwarts school song gets performed by the kids! [laughs] It’s really cool. I’ve just really enjoyed it. This is a really special addition to the wizarding world.
Eric: I haven’t been able to listen yet; I got the link late in the week and haven’t had a chance, but I’m very excited, because I love Hugh Laurie. So Micah, what’s your beef here?
Micah: I’ll preface it by saying I hope that he grows on me in future books, because presumably he’s going to be around for quite a while [laughs] in terms of these audiobooks, and they’ve all been recorded at this point. He just sounds too young to be Dumbledore; that’s my issue with it. And Andrew, would you second that? How do you feel listening to him?
Andrew: Yes. Well, he just sounds too Hugh Laurie to me; I’m not hearing Dumbledore in his portrayal. And I thought initially it was because, oh, we’re hearing Dumbledore when he drops Harry off on Privet Drive, but then you get to Hogwarts, and it’s still the same Dumbledore. So that’s the only one I’m just sort of “Eh” about so far, but maybe he will grow on us.
Micah: Yeah, I hope he does.
Andrew: He needs to sound older.
Eric: And that’s such an interesting thing, because yeah, I mean, the portrayals of Dumbledore we’ve seen before have all been by men above 60; I’d say even maybe above 70…
Andrew: Right.
Eric: … or Jim Dale and Stephen Fry doing an impression of a man who, in the books, is 150.
Andrew: Right.
Eric: And so to have a young-sounding Dumbledore, even – besides the Fantastic Beasts series, which has him portrayed by Jude Law – would be, I assume, off-putting a little. I can see how that might happen.
Laura: Hugh Laurie is 66, though. I just looked it up.
Micah: He sounds great.
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: Doesn’t sound a day over 40.
Andrew: I wouldn’t say he… [laughs] Right, exactly. Botox for the voice; it’s keeping him young. But I do think it doesn’t impact the experience at all.
Micah: No.
Andrew: It’s something that kind of catches your ear when you first hear it, I think, but then you stop thinking about it.
Micah: And I’ll just add – and Eric, this goes to your point earlier – there’s an expectation coming in for Dumbledore, with Richard Harris, with Michael Gambon, and I think that’s also the case for a lot of these characters. You have an expectation of what you’re about to hear, and you need to kind of give yourself that space to be able to take in a new interpretation of any number of these characters. So I need to be a little bit more open-minded, I think, going into it than I’ve been so far.
Eric: But something that’ll be interesting, Micah – because like you said, it takes maybe some getting used to – is I think that Gambon as Dumbledore took several films before I was truly cozy, and with Half-Blood in particular, the movie, I was just like, “Okay, this is Dumbledore for me.” So I really am wondering if come Book 2, Book 3… fortunately, only have to wait a couple months to see if he does, in fact, grow on you or the role, and you’re like, “Yeah, this is Dumbledore.” It’s an interesting take.
Andrew and Micah: Yeah.
Andrew: Maybe he’ll become more tired, like a tired Dumbledore.
Micah: Because he’s reading so much.
Eric: As he grows weary of reading six and a half Harry Potter books, yeah.
Andrew: [in a tired voice] “Why’d I commit to seven books? I can’t do it anymore.”
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: The first book does come out November 4. Again, really great experience. I’m very much looking forward to listening to all these…
Micah: On the day this is released.
Andrew: Yeah! It’s keeping me engaged in the story in a way I wasn’t expecting. Typically, my mind will wander with audiobooks, but with this, it’s keeping me locked in. So can’t recommend it enough. The books are only available on Audible, and you can stream them through Amazon Music, if you’re an unlimited member there. And speaking of previews, by the way, just want to say in two weeks from now, I’ll share some thoughts on Universal’s new Harry Potter-themed land at their latest theme park Epic Universe. I’ll be going there next week, and looking forward to finally seeing that, so will let you all know how the land is.
Micah: I hope you have fun riding Umbridge.
Andrew: [laughs] Um, excuse me?
Laura: Ooh.
Micah: Isn’t that what it’s called?
Andrew: I don’t believe the ride is called Umbridge. I think it’s Battle of the Ministry, or something like that.
Micah: Oh, I’m sorry.
[Andrew and Kathlyn laugh]
Laura: I thought you were implying it was called “Riding Umbridge,” and I was going to be like, “Whoa.”
Andrew: Oh, that’s exactly what he meant. Micah, you can go now. You’re excused for the night. Kathlyn, I’m so sorry for the lack of professionalism here. [laughs]
Kathlyn: Oh, I loved it. It was great.
Micah: It’s been a long work week.
[Andrew and Kathlyn laugh]
Andrew: Well, listeners, if you enjoy MuggleCast and want to help keep this show looking better than Ron Weasley’s OWL results…
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: … and hey, maybe you want to help support getting Andrew a butterbeer at the new Epic Universe land, we invite you to become a member of our community at Patreon.com/MuggleCast, and by joining, you’ll get instant access to two bonus MuggleCast episodes every month, plus ad-free episodes, access to our livestreams, a personal video “Thank you” message from one of the MuggleCasters, a physical gift delivered by owl each year, and much more.
Micah: I’ll buy you a butterbeer.
Andrew: You’ll buy me a butterbeer? Okay. You have my Venmo?
Micah: Yeah, I’ll Venmo you.
Andrew: Okay. Yes, yes. Perfect. And if you’re looking for other ways to support us, you can leave us a review in your favorite podcast app, you can tell a fellow Muggle about our show, and you can visit MuggleCast Merch to buy official show gear. Kathlyn is wearing her MuggleCast shirt tonight, Eric is… yeah, we got three. All the same, the “19 Years Later” shirts. We still have some of these available, so don’t miss out. MuggleCastMerch.com, and then click the banner at the top of the page to visit the overstock store.
Chapter by Chapter: Pensieve
Andrew: Time for Chapter by Chapter, and we’re discussing Half-Blood Prince Chapter 5, “An Excess of Phlegm.”
Eric: We last discuss this chapter of Half-Blood Prince on MuggleCast 383 for September 10 of 2018. That episode was titled “She Existed,” and as always, we make some revelations in this clip.
Dumbledore: What you are looking at are memories. This is the most important memory I’ve collected. It is from MuggleCast Episode 383.
[Sound of memory uncorking]
[Sound of plunging into Pensieve]
Andrew: But I think you raise a good question, the very first thing you said: Who made the clock? That would help Molly figure out why it keeps saying “Mortal peril.” [laughs]
Eric: Yeah, send him an owl. Be like, “Hey, this is stuck on…” Or where’s the grandfather clock repair man? Repair wizard?
Andrew: “Uh, ma’am? Do I have to state the obvious? Voldemort is back; that’s why it says ‘Mortal peril.'”
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: And I mean, ultimately it kind of ends up being right, for at least one of the Weasleys.
Eric: Yeah, nobody’s safe. Especially when Molly doesn’t do the password.
Andrew: So could the clock actually have known that one of them was going to die, but maybe it didn’t know which?
Eric: I think that might be a stretch.
Andrew: I need a clock for Lavender Brown, to find out what’s going on with her.
[Eric laughs]
[Sound of exiting Pensieve]
Dumbledore: This memory is everything.
Eric: Remember when we didn’t know a lot about Lavender Brown seven years ago? And we still don’t know about Lavender Brown?
Andrew: Some things never change.
Chapter by Chapter: Main Discussion
Eric: Let’s crack into this lovely chapter, “An Excess of Phlegm.” Something that stands out to me on this most recent reread: Harry is at the Burrow, he’s eating a wonderful plate or bowl of onion soup that Molly has cooked for him late at night, and between this evening… so Dumbledore has just left, Tonks has left, and first thing in the morning, several people, multiple times, remark about how Harry was not expected until way later. Maybe the thing with Slughorn was going to take all night and then some, because Dumbledore originally told Molly, “Hey, we’ll be back in the morning.” But because we’re fresh off our Horace Slughorn chapter discussion, I kind of wanted to tug that thread a little bit more and say it’s honestly shocking how many times it comes up in this chapter; right on page 83 of the US edition, Molly says to Harry, “Everyone’s in bed, of course, we didn’t expect you for hours.” Then Arthur gets home and he goes, “Harry! We didn’t expect you until morning!” And then Harry is woken up the next morning, and Ron goes, “We didn’t know you were here already!” It’s utterly absurd that so many people were like, “He’s coming tomorrow. He’s coming tomorrow. Wait, he’s here now? Let’s tell Harry how crazy that is.” So I’ve got to ask, I’ve got to ask: What was Dumbledore’s B plan? C plan? If they were going to be there another ten hours, trying to persuade Slughorn… was he going to tie him up?
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: What was Dumbledore thinking originally…? Obviously, at the end of the previous chapter, Dumbledore says, “Harry did his magic, and something only Harry could do.” But what if that hadn’t worked? What was the plan?
Kathlyn: I mean, I’m convinced he would have taken him down to the pub for a nightcap, and been like, “Here you go.” Just keep plying him, and then intoxicated him all the way back to Hogwarts. [laughs] That’s what I’m pretty convinced… he would have just Apparated him back, because he can do that, right, Dumbledore?
Eric: Oh, yeah.
Andrew: Nothing a butterbeer couldn’t have fixed, you’re saying.
[Kathlyn laughs]
Laura: Don’t we see Dumbledore do this later to the head of the orphanage in a memory?
Eric: Yeah, slowly get Mrs. Cole a little drunker, a little looser around the lips. Well, I was wondering if in this case, as you’re saying this, if his goal is to get Slughorn drunker, maybe he would abandon the approach of trying to recruit Slughorn and he would go straight for the Horcrux memory. Really attempt to pry it out of him.
Andrew: Oh, wow.
Eric: He’s like, “Okay, if you won’t…” Because that’s why he wants Slughorn at Hogwarts, right? Is to get to the bottom of this theory he has that Tom Riddle went after Horcruxes. So maybe if Slughorn really is unpersuadable…
Andrew: I think Dumbledore was maybe also just sort of banking on Slughorn thinking about it in the proceeding hours and changing his mind. I think maybe he got really lucky walking out and Slughorn immediately was like, “Okay, yes, I’ll do it, but give me a raise.” He was hoping that Slughorn overnight would realize that he should go to the school. He’d be safe there; he would have a permanent address where all of his Slug Club alumni could reach him. There are a lot of perks for Slughorn, plus a raise.
Micah: I just think Dumbledore is on a mission this whole book so far. He’s about getting things done and getting results. He goes to the Dursleys; he tells them what’s up. He goes and recruits Slughorn. He drops Harry off at the Weasleys. And by the way, this is the third consecutive chapter where Dumbledore just drops in on people unannounced. I think this is extremely rude.
Andrew: It is!
Micah: And he mentions Rufus Scrimgeour, that he has to go and meet with him. I wonder, does Rufus even know that Dumbledore is about to show up?
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Micah: It’s, what, one o’clock in the morning at this point?
Eric: Yeah, yeah. It keeps getting an hour later. He shows up at the Dursleys at 11, he shows up at Horace’s at midnight, 1:00 a.m… fortunately, we know Scrimgeour wants to talk to Dumbledore, because he needs to…
Micah: I don’t think he’s getting much sleep at this point either, as Minister for Magic.
Laura: Yeah, probably not.
Micah: But still, very rude of Dumbledore. But I also noticed here, Kathlyn, you have a plot hole related to Dumbledore and Harry.
Kathlyn: Yeah, well, they have the whole Mollywobbles thing with Arthur, and they want to identify everybody; they don’t trust anybody. And they’re all like, “Oh, you’re back super early! We didn’t expect you to be here!” That would be suspicious to me.
Eric: Oh my…
Kathlyn: Why haven’t they checked who they are? [laughs]
Eric: God, that’s a good point! They have extra reason to be suspicious! Because if you’re going to break in somewhere or pretend to be somebody, it’s literally somebody that you don’t expect, or at a time you don’t expect them showing up, is literally what the Ministry is warning about. If anybody had read these pamphlets, I’m telling you, and taken them seriously, they would have probed Harry and Dumbledore. Well, at least Arthur Weasley, of all people, is observing these guidelines, because he wants to put on… he wants to be the example, the prime example of Ministry… fool? No, safe person! He actually has been promoted; this is a wonderful thing, but he’s the only one we see taking this stuff seriously as far as security goes.
Andrew: Well, he’s got a big family that he needs to be looking out for, so I think it’s just really wise of him to be leading by example and hoping that the example he sets is instilled in the rest of his family. Not to mention, his family members are potential high value targets, if you will, because of the association to Harry.
Laura: Right.
Eric: Oh.
Andrew: So it’s very important that they’re taking these security measures seriously.
Eric: That’s a great point.
Kathlyn: Does he also want to really follow the guidelines because…? I mean, it’s already mentioned in the chapter that his sons, they could have made these things. They could have been behind this magic; it’s something they could have thought up of, and he’s like, “I’m going to be extra good because they’re going to think straight away it’s my jokester sons.”
Eric: That’s a heck of a thing. I think that Fred and George’s occupation – which we’ll get even more insight into in the next chapter – could be muddying the waters here a little bit, because to your point, Kathlyn, it does… these fake protective things that are scams, essentially, that necessitate the creation of this department, do sound like something Fred and George might make.
Micah: I do think, though, it’s also really cool that it’s mentioned that Arthur misses his old job, despite his promotion. He seems to have a strong love of all things Muggle.
Andrew: Also, very long job title: Office for the Detection and Confiscation of Counterfeit Defensive Spells and Protective Objects. Hagrid’s Magical Creatures Motorbike Adventure at Universal Orlando’s the Wizarding World of Harry Potter Hogsmeade.
[Micah laughs]
Laura: Yeah, basically.
Micah: That’s one heck of a business card. Can you imagine trying to fit that on your business card? It’d take up the whole thing.
Andrew: Yeah, yeah.
Kathlyn: But there are so many government jobs that have ridiculous titles, right? And they’re super long.
Andrew: True.
Kathlyn: Well, there is in the UK. [laughs]
Andrew: Yeah. No, it’s probably a problem here in America as well.
Eric: Let’s move on. We get some updates, more updates from Molly, and in this case, one from Fleur Delacour, who’s here. She brings Harry his breakfast in the morning after Ron has come in, voiced his surprise, and apparently hit Harry on the head for being there so early.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: I don’t understand; it’s very weird and Movie 4-ish. But Fleur is surprised to learn that Harry does not yet know that she and Bill Weasley, the Weasleys’ eldest child, are engaged to be married!
Andrew: [gasps] Aww, yay!
Eric: And Molly, who’s immediately soured after Fleur has looked at her, is saying, “We hadn’t got around to telling him yet.” And it’s interesting, because at the beginning of the chapter, Molly really is info-dumping on Harry, and she tells him about the promotion and it’s this lovely conversation. Somehow, her oldest, the first child of hers to be engaged, is not top news. It doesn’t make the cut the night before. Can we intuit here that there’s, I don’t know, anything other than a lack of enthusiasm going on from Molly toward Bill and Fleur’s nuptials?
Laura: Yeah, I mean, she’s clearly not happy about it. It’s a stereotype, unfortunately.
Eric: What’s that?
Laura: Mothers and their older sons.
Eric: Oh, like they’re super protective? Ahh.
Andrew: Well, I was going to say, too, this is just something you see in the Muggle world as well, where sometimes somebody’s going to come into the family and family members aren’t going to like them. I can point to a couple examples in my own family where it’s like, “You know, we’ve just got to deal with them being a part of the family now.”
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Andrew: Maybe they’re nice, maybe they mean well, but you just don’t jive! It’s just a thing that happens. Because the partner might fall in love, but then it doesn’t mean the rest of the family has to like them for the same reasons. Hopefully they do.
Laura: Right. Yeah, I mean, Molly just needs to remember she can have her own feelings, but at the end of the day, Bill is the one who has to live with his chosen spouse, right?
Andrew: Wow, Laura is not a fan either, it sounds like, of Fleur.
Laura: No, I’m not saying anything like that; I actually think Molly, Hermione, and Ginny are being really unfair towards her. But at the same time, I truly believe as his parent, she should just want him to be happy and understand that she’s not the one who has to live with Fleur. So at the end of the day, she needs to get over it. And she will, she will, like a lot of people do.
Eric: Well, after a grand gesture, but…
Andrew: Molly brings up that they’ve known each other for just a year, which at first seems to be her primary concern, and then this turns into a conversation about people rushing to do things in light of this war that they’re in, in case they die sooner rather than later.
Eric: Right.
Andrew: And it’s understandable. That’s actually something we see in the real world too. Some bad news is afoot, the current politics of the world, and it causes people to move up their timelines, to lock things in before things change.
Micah: In terms of why maybe it wasn’t brought up when Harry first arrived, I think there were probably more things pressing on Molly’s mind at that time than the fact that Fleur was in the house, and… I don’t know; she seems very stressed out, putting Fleur aside in this chapter. And we see that with when Harry first arrives, and Tonks is there, and she’s trying to console her, and then she has to cook Harry dinner at one o’clock in the morning, she’s worried about whether or not Arthur is going to show up on time… so there’s a lot of different things that are at play here, and I don’t think telling him about an engagement is probably at the top of her mind, in fairness to her.
Andrew: No.
Eric: I think that’s fair.
Micah: Now, what happens throughout the rest of the chapter, however…
Andrew: Yes.
Micah: … is not fair towards Fleur.
Andrew: Molly also brings up that she and Arthur got married quickly, but she says they were made for each other, so it’s okay that they rushed into it.
Eric: Well, it’s funny because Ginny points this out, so Ginny alternates between complaining about Fleur, who apparently talks to her like she’s a child, and then also getting kind of the devil’s advocate position, where she’s like, “Actually, didn’t you and dad get married really early?” And Molly… so the hypocrisy is pointed out, and that’s delightful, because characters that we love… everyone’s allowed a little bit of foolishness or contradictions. I think contradictions make people sometimes. And Molly is like, “Well, that’s because your father and I were meant for each other, so what’s the point in waiting?” [laughs] And I’ve got to say, I actually relate to Mrs. Weasley here because actually, cards on the table, the reason that I am married right now, and got married in January of this year, is because of greater political realities and things, and I thought, “Best to do it.” Meg and I were a fit; we knew we were going to do it eventually. Why not, given the weight of the world? And I’ll tell you what, the thing about that that I learned was as things were getting real dark and feeling just cold and dark all winter and all that stuff in the beginning of this year, I was able to look around and just say, “Heh, I did a thing! I’m married now!” And that little boost of happiness, of euphoria, of “Ah, we did a thing,” actually pulled us through some darker times, I think.
Kathlyn: Yeah, I think after Covid lockdowns, you saw a lot of this, a lot of people having babies and getting married and stuff. And I certainly… me and my partner weren’t living together through lockdown, and we moved in together and we’re now married, and I think, yeah, you just accelerate things because you think, “God, life’s too short. Just do it.”
Laura: I was also going to say I don’t think there’s a manual to know exactly when’s the right time. I think there are certainly probably very short timeframes that most people could agree, like, “That’s really quick to get married,” but a year… considering one, the time period this takes place. We have to remember it’s not 2025 where people aren’t getting married until they’re well into their 30s; people were getting married much younger then. And then two, considering the fact that they are in the middle of a war, I think that kind of colors the circumstances in a way that might help a couple develop the depth of their relationship more quickly than they would if they were living in peace time. So I don’t know; I think it’s all relative, and I think Molly is just in a little bit of denial here.
Eric: Micah, you had a great point about Fleur finding comfort in Harry being there.
Micah: Yeah, and I think in fairness to Fleur, she’s still very much a foreigner. We see her as a foreigner in Goblet of Fire, literally, but she’s a foreigner in this house, and Harry is the only person that she feels that she knows, and it must have been such a relief for her to hear that he was at the Burrow, and that’s why she made the decision to bring him up his breakfast. And I know she kind of steps on Molly’s toes a little bit in doing that, but I think she’s genuinely excited to have somebody in the house that she has some kind of relationship with, because she doesn’t have a relationship with anybody else outside of Bill.
Eric: Yeah, it’s a great point, and it makes me question… I don’t want to say Bill’s motive, but Bill’s actions here, because he’s at his job, presumably – I think we do see him at the Burrow at the beginning of the next chapter, which is nice – but Bill has left his fiancée, who English is not her first language; she speaks with an accent everyone hates, clearly. And he’s left her here to the wolves, to just kind of figure it out. And maybe he’s thinking, “I’m a Weasley. The Weasleys are the nicest family in the wizarding world. They’re going to be fine.”
Andrew: But we also don’t really know how much time she spent with Molly and company prior to this scene, do we? I mean, yes, they didn’t vacation together, but maybe there have been some dinners together or something. But I agree with you; there probably was a better way to get her more involved with the family and have her staying at the house. I also just think that Fleur is part-Veela; she’s this beautiful lady who all the guys ogle over, and she’s kind of like this almost larger than life figure because of that. And I think Molly maybe was just hoping that all of her children would meet people who are a little more down to earth.
Laura: Yeah, that’s probably part of it. I think also… I think you’re onto something with talking about Molly imagining someone more down to earth, almost like someone more like the family, right?
Andrew: Exactly.
Micah: Like Tonks?
Laura: She thinks of Harry like a son, right? And that’s why she’s trying to push Tonks off, exactly.
Eric: Well, and that is suggested in this chapter, that Molly wishes… we don’t hear it from Molly, but I guess the implication is that they think that she wants Tonks to be with Bill instead. Really, I think Molly is just counseling Tonks about Lupin, which we don’t find out until much later. But yeah, it’s just interesting from a down-to-earth standpoint, because look at where Charlie is; her next kid may never return from Romania, where he’s with his dragons. Percy is in the wind somewhere; we don’t know what that relationship might… if he’s kept up with Penelope… we just don’t know, and so it’s rich of Mrs. Weasley to be disapproving of somebody who… Bill is at least doing the right thing and bringing her home and letting her meet the family, and not springing anything on Mrs. Weasley. She has a whole year to look forward to this, so… I know she’ll come around on it, though.
Kathlyn: I mean, I think as well with the whole… like you guys are saying about the accent and everything, my thoughts are British people are overly polite and can be quite passive-aggressive, and mainland Europe can be a bit more to the point. And that’s not necessarily a bad thing; there’s pros and cons to both ways. And I think just sometimes, as a British person, when someone comes in and they can be kind of to the point, you’re like, “Oh, what is this? What is this?” [laughs] You need to just kind of be like, “All right, okay, that’s just the cultural ways.” And I think there’s probably a lot of that clash there as well, because this is…
Eric: Culture clash.
Kathlyn: Yeah, it is. This is a real British family. Wizarding family, but they’re very, very British in their ways, and so I think that probably her being… she’s not being rude; she’s just being her, if that makes sense.
[Andrew and Kathlyn laugh]
Laura: Yeah, you’re totally right. And she’s still learning English; she talks about how she’s still practicing her English, so we have to remember that there are some things… you talk about culture clashing; certain linguistic phrases and terms do not translate well from one language to another, so she still has a lot of colloquialisms to learn.
Kathlyn: Absolutely.
Laura: And so she’s probably not meaning to be rude. It’s just as you said, Kathlyn; she’s just talking the way she talks.
Eric: And she’s been set up to fail, too, the way that… with Hermione, even, the way that Ron reacts – which is not an entirely conscious decision on Ron’s part, whenever she surprise shows up [laughs] – is a subject of ridicule for both Ginny and Hermione against Ron, but it’s another reason for them to dislike Fleur, because of the effect that Veela have on the warm-blooded English male. So she’s set up to fail here, I think.
Micah: It’s really not fair either the way that Hermione treats Fleur, because we think about how she views Krum. This is somebody from the exact same tournament in Goblet of Fire, and I think that Harry’s point about Fleur being good enough to get into the Triwizard Tournament is one of the only positive things that we hear about her in this entire chapter.
Laura: I think Hermione is just jealous.
Eric: Could be. If so, it’s an unpleasant side of Hermione that we’re seeing.
Micah: But I guess maybe I just expect more from Hermione, and maybe I shouldn’t in this case.
Eric: That’s also fair. Everyone’s still, what, 16 now?
Laura: Yeah. Hermione really does…
Kathlyn: She’s a teenage girl.
[Kathlyn and Micah laugh]
Laura: Yeah, exactly, Kathlyn. We have to remember, she is 16, and she definitely regresses in this book. Think about everything we’re going to see later with Cormac and Hermione using him to make Ron jealous because of Lavender. So yeah, she’s just jealous.
Andrew: She has these moments! I’ve brought this up before across the series, where it’s really surprising, the things that she says. [laughs]
Eric: She’s basically a serial killer.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: That’s an old, old, old reference. But yeah, one thing I wanted to point out, though; there was actually a ton of really good discussion about Fleur on… I’m going to give a shout-out to the all girls MuggleCast episode that was done, which was 634, and there’s actually a ton of talk about Fleur’s role as a woman in the series, how she’s viewed by other women, and I just really would encourage anybody who’s looking for more of this discussion, and also in general, to check out the all girls MuggleCast if you haven’t already. That was a great episode. There have been two now, actually, I believe. And that was, again, Episode 634. Yeah, what do you remember about that discussion, Laura?
Laura: You know, the main thing that always sticks out to me about that discussion, but then also about the dynamics that we see represented in these books, is that unfortunately, we don’t get to see very many, if any at all, deep relationships between female characters that are built on any kind of mutual respect. It feels like there can be a lot of women tearing down women in the series, and granted, it’s a coming of age story, and unfortunately, teenagers can just be big jerks to each other, I think, regardless of gender. But there is the stereotype about teenage girls in particular that does exist for a reason, because it is out there. I even think back to when I was a teenager and I could be a little catty sometimes. I like to think I’ve grown since then. But the problem is…
Kathlyn: You’re not the only one, Laura. I was too.
[Andrew and Kathlyn laugh]
Eric: Aww.
Laura: Yeah, I love this. See? It’s all about growth.
Eric: Let’s all hug.
[Kathlyn laughs]
Laura: Yeah, group hug. But I think the problem is… particularly this chapter shows us that a lot of the examples we see of women interacting with each other are more on that side of the spectrum than they are on the support side of the spectrum, and that’s just a limitation of the storytelling that we got here. We definitely talked about some ways that representation of female friendships could have been stronger in the series, because there are opportunities for it for sure.
Micah: I was thinking about Molly and Hermione, but then I thought back to just Goblet of Fire where she was angry at Hermione for certain things related to Harry, right?
Laura: Yeah. Well, and actually, James in our Discord… actually, several people in our Discord are weighing in on this. James is saying, “The exception is Hermione/Ginny, or maybe Ginny/Luna, but even then it feels like Hermione/Ginny is only because Hermione ends up a Weasley.”
Eric: Oh.
Laura: And to be honest, we also talked a lot about how Ginny doesn’t get enough representation in the books. She is a really cool character, and we don’t get as much time with her as I think we should have gotten, given how prominent she ended up being.
Micah: So I wanted to ask about Ginny, though – and I’m sure this was something that you discussed, Laura, on that episode – but I’m wondering if for her, some of her behavior towards Fleur has to deal with the fact that she’s never had to compete with another female in her family for face time before.
Laura: Maybe. She also doesn’t know what it’s like to have a big sister, and I think Fleur is doing some of that to her, maybe uninten… maybe it’s a little bit of both. Maybe it’s intentional and unintentional, because I mean, compared to where Ginny is at this point, she’s, what, 15? Think about how you looked at 15-year-olds when you were, what, 19? Is that how old Fleur is? I mean, it really is… you kind of are… there is a chasm between you developmentally-wise; at least, it feels like there is when you’re at that age. So I think the dynamic here is pretty natural. What do you think, Kathlyn?
Kathlyn: No, yeah, I totally agree. I think the age gap is actually massive. That four years might not seem very much to us, but I think to that age, it’s a huge difference. And she’s also used to having a little sister, Fleur…
Andrew and Eric: Ohh.
Laura: Yep, great point.
Kathlyn: … so she might just be like that with her little sister as well. I know as a big sister to little brothers, I can be quite condescending, I guess, when I know more than them, [laughs] and I want to teach them that, and I want to teach them on the right way to be, especially when I was younger. And so I think she’s probably just kind of clinging on to that, and maybe that’s her way of trying to bond with Ginny, with her being like, “Oh, I’ll treat you like I treat my little sister. I teach her this, I teach her that.”
Eric: I love that.
Laura: And let’s be real, older sisters always know best.
Kathlyn: Absolutely. [laughs]
Laura: I think that’s… we are not going to even debate that. We won’t entertain that.
[Andrew and Kathlyn laugh]
Eric: Oh, okay. I was ready for a old school debate style. No, I think that that’s really lovely insight into that process, and again, with Fleur bringing up Gabrielle, she’s obviously thinking about her sister too.
Micah: So is it then almost like Ginny is missing an opportunity here? Because she’s grown up with all brothers, and now there’s this opportunity,… maybe, too, if the circumstances were different, if they weren’t in the midst of a wizarding war, that it would have played out in a different way. I don’t know.
Eric: Yeah, it’s super soon, too. This could be the first week that they’re in each other’s company, maybe. But I’m loving this discussion, because on paper, Ginny and Fleur should absolutely get along. They’re both kind of jocks, they’re both athletic, but they’re both smart, they’re intelligent… I think that they would actually have a lot in common, frankly. But there’s still so much time ahead of them for them to see this, so now I want the fanfic that’s Ginny and Fleur, little sister/big sister – and littler sister, because Gabrielle can come too – just interacting post-Book 7. And Hermione can stay home.
Micah: It’s called “Hocus Pocus.”
Eric: Yes, very “Hocus Pocus.”
[Kathlyn laughs]
Eric: So yeah, what I noticed, too – wrapping up our discussion on Fleur – is there is a moment where everyone cuts her off, and it’s because the OWLs are coming. Harry kind of sets off the alarm because everyone’s wondering, and he’s like, “Oh, yeah, Dumbledore told me they would be showing up.” Notice how they didn’t come eight hours earlier than Dumbledore said. That’s weird. But no, actually, Fleur has just a half of a moment to say that the French system at Beauxbatons of doing studies, doing quizzes, doing… what’s the word? Testing. Academic testing happens at year six, instead of after five years of study. Fleur just gets in under the wire that she thinks it’s better how they do it at Beauxbatons, which is probably one of those situations, Kathlyn, where that’s a rude thing to say, but she’s not thinking that way, that it’s a rude thing to say. I know how it would sound if a foreigner came in and was like, “The way we do things is better.” But also, I’m inclined to listen. Everybody else just kind of cuts her off, and we never find out what Fleur’s opinion is on testing, which I’m kind of just sad by, that nobody gets comes back to her later and is like, “You were saying?”
Kathlyn: It’s funny, because that’s quite similar to the Scottish and English differences in the testing system in schools.
Eric: Go on.
Kathlyn: So in Scotland… well, when I was at school, which is a long time ago. The exams have changed now. [laughs]
Eric: I think we’re the same age, by the way.
Andrew: More recent than we were. Kathlyn is the youngest in the group, actually.
Eric: Oh, man, okay.
Kathlyn: [laughs] You would sit your… what would be your GCSEs is slightly younger than in England, and the same with the next level up as well when you’re finishing school. They have their A-levels in England, which they do over two years, but in Scotland, it’s Highers and it’s in one year. So I remember moving down here and being like, “You only have three, and you did it over two years? I have five, and I did it in a year!” But that’s just the way the system was; it was just totally different. And I remember people being like, “I worked so hard for my A-levels!” So I must have been the Fleur in that situation. [laughs]
Eric: Oh, man. No, that’s really cool. So the OWL results come.
Odds & Ends
Eric: We’re going to get into some odds and ends here, but one thing we wanted to mention before wrapping up is that Harry does, in fact, get to tell Ron and Hermione that the prophecy is true, that the Daily Prophet is reporting correctly. He, Harry, is the Chosen One.
Andrew: “But I am the Chosen One.”
Eric: “I am the Chosen One.” It’s interesting because Harry… Harry has permission from Dumbledore to tell Hermione and Ron this. Dumbledore explicitly says, “You should tell Hermione and Ron this,” and that’s why Harry does. I’m trying to imagine a Book 6 where Harry doesn’t tell them this.
Andrew: Harry feels relieved after telling Ron and Hermione about the prophecy. It’s a big weight off of his shoulders, and not only did he get it over with, but he sees that they were “still there on either side of him, speaking bracing words of comfort, not shrinking from him as though he were contaminated or dangerous.” And I think it’s a good reminder of not hesitating to be vulnerable in front of your people who you trust and love. You will always feel better after you do that.
Eric: Yeah. Hear, hear.
MVP of the Week
Andrew: Time for MVP of the Week.
Eric: I wanted to talk about Harry’s OWL results. We have the list here.
[MVP of the Week music plays]
Eric: So everyone, what is the most surprising grade that Harry got?
Andrew: I’m going to say History of Magic. He got a D for Dreadful. I know class is really boring with Binns, but I feel like that’s… he should have done better in that. He should have put more effort into it.
Micah: And he passed out in the middle of the exam; he should have gotten to go and do a retake or finish.
Eric: Oh, I thought you were going to say he should have gotten Troll. [laughs]
Andrew: I was going to say, he should have gotten Troll for that. It’s a miracle… it’s a surprise he got Dreadful.
Micah: I’m with you, Andrew.
Eric: Well, I’m going to actually say I’m very and most surprised that Harry eked out an E in Potions, Exceeds Expectations. I know he said it’s better without Snape breathing down his neck, but we don’t see Harry remembering Potions, and in fact, this book is 100% proof that Harry doesn’t know [censored] about Potions on his own, so I’m surprised.
Laura: I’m going to say Divination. I know he didn’t try, obviously, because he didn’t care about it, but I feel like he should have been able to phone this one in for at least an A. Come on.
Eric: Not a Poor.
Kathlyn: Yeah, I was really surprised by Herbology. I mean, he didn’t know what Gillyweed was in Goblet of Fire…
[Eric laughs]
Kathlyn: … and he’s done pretty well in Herbology now, so either that put a rocket up him to get a move on and study… I don’t know, but I was quite surprised. [laughs]
Lynx Line
Eric: It’s time now for the Lynx Line segment. We asked a question over on Patreon, and our wonderful participants gave us the answers. For this one, because this is the chapter where Arthur observes the password thing and “Mollywobbles” is revealed to us, we asked listeners: What is an endearing pet name that you or a loved one use that you’re comfortable sharing with us, and what are its origins? This might be one of my favorite Lynx Lines we’ve ever done. People really showed up for it.
Andrew: So Darin said, “My girlfriend and I call each other Biscuit. I have her listed as Honey Biscuit Bun in my phone.”
Laura: Aww.
Andrew: That’s cute, but would also make me hungry, personally.
Eric: Oh, I was going to say, doesn’t this make you want to melt into a glaze? But now I’m hungry too, darn it.
[Kathlyn laughs]
Eric: Rachel says, “One of my high school friends is named Lev, and one day someone asked if it was short for anything. As a joke, I said it’s short for Elevator, and the name stuck.”
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Laura: That’s funny.
Micah: Michael says, “For some reason when my brother was really little, I called him the baby of truth.”
[Andrew and Kathlyn laugh]
Laura: Ooh, very prophetic. Cristina says, “I call my husband ‘Buddy Boy,’ and he calls me ‘Buddy Girl.’ Our WiFi Name is Buddy People. I really cannot remember where this came from.”
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: I love that.
Laura: That is delightful.
Eric: Hey, Buddy Boy. Hey, Buddy Girl. We’re Buddy People.
Kathlyn: Kristin says, “I call my husband ‘Bean,’ and he calls me ‘Sprout.’ It all started with a joke about Jack and the Giant Beanstalk because he is much taller than me.” That is really cute.
Andrew: Aw, that’s cute. We have so many cute listeners!
Eric: I know, this is adorable.
Andrew: Jenny said, “I grew up in the suburbs of a bigger city, and my husband grew up in a rural area, so he calls me City Mouse, and I call him Country Mouse.”
Laura: Aww, I love that.
[Kathlyn laughs]
Eric: So you’re both mouse, aw. Bailey says… [laughs] I’m going to try not to die laughing.
“We call my nephew Beef! His real name is Felix, and when he was a baby, his mom would call him FeFe. The other kids couldn’t quite get the sound right, and started calling him Feef. It then just morphed into Beef. Now he won’t respond to anything else – the whole family, the neighbors, and the kids at school all call him Beef. It’s a little silly, but I love my little Beefy Boy!”
[Andrew and Kathlyn laugh]
Eric: Amazing.
Micah: And Manda says,
“Growing up, my brother called me ‘Porkchop’ – this stems from the Red Hot Chili Peppers song By The Way, where they say ‘Pawn shop’ but I thought the lyric was ‘porkchop.’ I stand by my assessment and the lyric will always by porkchop to me. My name for my husband is ‘Baloo’ just like the bear in The Jungle Book. I think I saw him scratching his back on a corner once and the name just stuck.”
[Andrew and Kathlyn laugh]
Andrew: Hot.
Micah: And my name for Andrew is Andy candy.
Andrew: Aw, wow.
Eric: I didn’t know if you were going to share that. That’s your security question on several platforms, I happen to know.
[Andrew and Kathlyn laughs]
Micah: You’re not supposed to say that.
Andrew: Oh, wait, now let me log into his Gmail with that.
Eric: Break in, yeah.
Andrew: Andy Candy. Happy Halloween. The Lynx Line is a great way to have your voice heard on the show, whether or not you’re listening live. We ask a new question with every episode. Become a member of our community today by going to Patreon.com/MuggleCast, and receiving this and many more benefits, like bonus MuggleCast. We have a new one out with wizarding world “Would you rather?” scenarios. It was a lot of fun, so check out that latest bonus MC. And if you have feedback about today’s episode, you can contact us by emailing or sending a voice memo that you record on your phone to MuggleCast@gmail.com. Next week, we’ll discuss Half-Blood Prince Chapter 6, “Draco’s Detour.” Visit MuggleCast.com for links to our social media, Patreon, transcripts, our favorite episodes, and lots more. And if you’re looking for more podcasting from the four of us, listen to our other shows, Millennial and What the Hype?!, for more pop culture and real world talk.
Quizzitch
Andrew: And now it’s time for Quizzitch.
[Quizzitch music plays]
Eric: This week’s question: There are two basic kinds of stitches in knitting. The first is called a knit; what’s the second one called? The correct answer is purl; P-U-R-L is how it’s spelled. So knit and purl are the two stitches in knitting. 66% of all people that submitted the answer say they did not look this up, so that’s kind of neat. Probably a high percentage there. And correct answers were submitted to us by A Healthy Breeze; A Stitch in Time Saves Slughorn’s Nine; Ashley; Ashley B.; Bagels4Buckbeak; Betty Bott’s Every Flavor Beans; Bill Nighy the Potions Guy; Clanging and Banging; Crochet is better anyway; ExcessOfYarn; Gwen Weasley; I want one of Mrs. Weasley’s home-knit sweaters; Insert witty name here; Jessley Hallows; Jiggly Jane; Kristen the Slytherclaw; Lumos Nox; Lynn the Allomancer; MoreLiveShows; NotSoMuggle; OnlyHadToLookUpHowToSpellIt; Sonia; Tangled Yarn; The Selected Learners United for Gifts Club (gifts for Slughorn, obviously); The Hungry Hungry Hufflepuff; Tofu Tom; and Wallysaurus. Woo! People liked this week’s Quizzitch; that’s a high turnout, and you’re all going to really like next week’s. All right, next week’s Quizzitch question: According to a 2011 estimate, there are 7 million Flemish people in the world. In what country do Flemish people largely reside? I.e., where are they from? I am expecting our European listeners to crush this and show up in droves and overwhelm us. Kathlyn, do you know the answer to this?
Kathlyn: I do. I have a Flemish friend. [laughs]
Andrew: Oh, okay.
Eric: So submit your answer to us on the Quizzitch form located on the MuggleCast website at MuggleCast.com/Quizzitch, or if you’re already on the website – checking out transcripts, or the must-listens page, or anything else – click on “Quizzitch” from the main nav.
Andrew: Kathlyn, thanks for joining us today, and thank you again for staying up so late. We really appreciate it.
Laura: You’re the best.
Kathlyn: I appreciate you having me on. Thank you.
Andrew: And Kathlyn, thank you for your English perspective today. That really came in handy today.
Eric: That was really valued.
[Andrew and Kathlyn laugh]
Kathlyn: I was like, “This is my episode, yes!” [laughs]
Andrew: And your favorite book, like you said!
Kathlyn: Yeah!
Laura: I have a question: Would it be more appropriate to say British perspective?
Kathlyn: It would be. It would be. [laughs]
Andrew: Okay, okay. And thank you for your British perspective today.
Micah: Your Scottish perspective, no?
Kathlyn: British, probably.
Micah: Ah, okay.
Andrew: I remember one time back in the day, I swear I would always say “British,” and then people were like, “It’s an English accent, Andrew, not British,” and I’ve been terrified of saying “British” ever since.
Kathlyn: Well, yeah, British is the culture and the place of the two countries – well, the four countries – and then English is… an English accent is from England, if that makes sense.
Andrew: Okay. I’m just some dumb Yank, so please excuse me.
Kathlyn: Everyone does it; don’t worry. People in England say that I’m English, so…
Micah: Your home country is beautiful. I was there last year.
Kathlyn: We call it God’s country for a reason. [laughs]
Laura: I really want to go.
Andrew: Thanks, everyone, for listening. I’m Andrew.
Eric: I’m Eric.
Micah: I’m Micah.
Laura: I’m Laura.
Kathlyn: And I’m Kathlyn.
Andrew: Bye, everyone!
Laura and Micah: Bye.