Transcript for MuggleCast Episode #728, Agent Granger (HBP Chapter 6, Draco’s Detour)
Cold Open
Eric: Five hours to access your account. They need online banking.
Julian: And somehow Bill can just go in and get Harry’s gold? I just… I have so many follow-up questions about…
[Micah laughs]
Julian: I’m like, “Does Harry have a list?”
Micah: I’m glad you do, because I do too.
Show Intro
[Show music plays]
Micah Tannenbaum: Welcome to MuggleCast, your weekly ride into the world of Harry Potter. I’m Micah.
Eric Scull: And I’m Eric.
Micah: And we’re your Harry Potter friends talking about the books, the movies, and the upcoming TV show. Make sure you press that follow button in your podcast app so you never miss a week with your Harry Potter friends. And this week, don’t get distracted by the WonderWitch product line. A love potion is captivating, but Draco Malfoy sneaking off down Nocturn Alley is going to have longer-lasting implications. Our highly acclaimed Chapter by Chapter continues with Chapter 6 of Half-Blood Prince, “Draco’s Detour.” And as you may have noticed, Andrew is taking a well-deserved vacation with family, but to help us with our discussion today, we have our old friend, and for the first time, finally, Professor Julian Wamble, PhD. Julian, it’s great to meet you. I feel like this has just been a long time coming.
Julian Wamble: Micah, we had to make sure that the people were ready for us to be together, and so it was just…
[Micah laughs]
Julian: It took a little time, and now I think they’re prepared.
Eric: It’s too much power in one room, is what it is.
Julian: It’s true. It’s true.
Eric: Also, now we have definitive proof that you two aren’t the same person. I was beginning to wonder. I was beginning to…
[Micah laughs]
Julian: And you know, there were a lot of allegations, and I’m really glad that we can finally lay them to rest, and so honestly, I think this was the moment, and I’m so glad to be here. [laughs]
Eric: Yeah, I’m glad to finally set TannenWamble-gate to rest.
[Micah laughs]
Julian: Yeah, the people have been talking about it in the Patreon, in the Discord, YouTube, everywhere, and so now the rumors can rest.
Eric: Julian, it’s so great to have you back with us. Thank you so much for joining.
Julian: Yeah, thank you so much for having me. I’m always so excited to be here.
Eric: So this is your third episode of MuggleCast.
Julian: I know, I know.
Eric: We last spoke to you in June, doing the “Snape’s Worst Memory” chapter of Order of the Phoenix.
Julian: Yes.
Eric: And that was awesome. And we actually first had you on for “Professor Trelawney’s Prediction.”
Julian: Yeah, it’s me and the professors, and now it’s me and Draco.
Eric: Yeah. Well, these are topics that you’ve covered on your Critical Magic Theory podcast too.
Julian: Yeah, yeah. We just finished up a big, long, excruciatingly long series on Snape, and now… yeah, so Snape, we spent a lot of time on him, and now we’re moving on to Dumbledore this week…
Eric: Oooh.
Julian: … which also is going to be a six-episode arc, so what a time that will be. But yeah, no, we have a great time there on Critical Magic Theory. And yeah, we spend a considerable amount of time talking about all of these things that we will be talking about today, so I’m excited.
Eric: Yeah, are you sporting some merch, did I see?
Julian: Oh, yeah, always. My “Be Critical, Stay Magical” sweatshirt, yeah.
Eric: Aw. Well, I love this. I was looking back on the Critical Magic Theory episodes to find out if you ever did Draco, because of course, this is a very Draco…
Julian: Yeah, we did.
Eric: Early on.
Julian: Yeah, so I structure it so that the first… we went through all the pure-bloods first, and then…
Eric: Why? Any particular reason? Do you feel like they’re maybe superior to other wizards?
Julian: So I think that they think they’re superior to other wizards, and one of the big things that we talk about is kind of as citizens, the way that the social hierarchy is set up, it’s pure-bloods are on top. So it’s like, if we think about how magical people structure their own lives in the way that they engage with the magical world, they do so with that particular group in mind. So we went through all of the pure-bloods first, and we’re working our way through all the half-bloods on that right now, and then we’ll do Muggle-borns, and then we’ll do pretty much everyone else, like the Muggles, and then everyone else. So yeah, that was the structure. So we went through Draco – we had two episodes on Draco – and we did Lucius and Narcissa and Bellatrix, so we did them all kind of as a unit, so yeah.
Eric: Wow. No, that’s great. That makes sense to me. And also, I wouldn’t want to be fielding angry emails from these pure-blood types, the Malfoys, etc., as to why I haven’t covered them on my podcast.
Julian: No, exactly. And so it makes… so I wanted to make sure that we went through all of them, because they are the ones who kind of dictate the way the world looks. And then from there, we move into the space of thinking about how some of the other people who sit in between, like our half-bloods, some of them are more in line with pure-bloods, and then some of them are not, and so we spend some time thinking about their relationship with the rest of the magical world through their blood status.
Eric: Well, and this is, I think, a really smart way that even history is taught, too, if you’re looking down British monarchs, for instance. You’re learning about the king and the queen, and only then can you have that conversation of “What were the peasants doing during this time?”
Julian: Right, right, exactly. And also thinking about even for what we’ll be talking about today, it’s like part of what… Draco and Narcissa in Madam Malkin’s shop, they get away with things that I don’t think other people would get away with, but also they’re trying to hold on to the status of who they were, even though Lucius is locked down, and I think part of their motivation is because they have… they’re in such high esteem because of their blood status, but also because of their money. So that identity plays a really big part in what they do, and so I think it’s trying to set that up so people can understand that before we talked about others, was kind of my motivation.
Eric: Yeah. Well, definitely, people, listeners, if you’re not already listening to Julian’s podcast, CriticalMagicTheory.com. Critical Magic Theory, where podcasts are found.
Julian: It’s there.
Eric: Am I missing anything out?
Julian: No, no, no, that’s it. That’s where you’ll find it.
Micah: I also want to mention the TikTok, right?
Eric: Yes!
Julian: True. That is true.
Eric: How’s that going? I happened to see a video you posted yesterday – I was going to call you out on a little later – about how good a father Lucius is.
Julian: I’m just saying that he shows up. Now, there is lots of conversation, both on TikTok and on Instagram, about whether or not he’s a good dad. I think – and I will say this, and it’s important for this episode – I think Draco thinks he’s a good father. I think whether or not we as readers see that, that’s up for debate. But I think Draco feels very locked in. So yes, my Instagram @Prof.JW, and my TikTok @ProfW, I post snippets of my lectures from my class “Harry Potter and the Politics of Social Identity.” And yeah, we’ve been getting into it. I just posted one today about Moaning Myrtle and what a creep she is.
Micah: I saw that. You’re not wrong.
[Eric laughs]
Julian: Yeah, so there’s lots of stuff there to unpack and discuss as well.
Micah: And I’m sure this probably plays a little bit into it, but Shirley Henderson, the actress who portrayed Moaning Myrtle, was very much older than Daniel Radcliffe at the time that she was portraying her character…
Julian: Yes.
Micah: … which adds to the creep factor just a little bit.
Julian: It does, and I purposefully left out the age thing because everyone’s like, “Well, she’s a ghost, and so she’s kind of suspended,” and I’m like, “Yeah, that doesn’t give me…” And I don’t think that the age piece is the end-all, be-all, because it’s still creepy that she just lurks in the prefects’ bathroom, watching people be in there. And so I thought age isn’t necessarily important, but for the movies, it does a thing as well where you’re like, “This makes the ick even more icky.”
Eric: I wonder how that’s going to be handled in the eventual HBO Max TV series.
Julian: I know. I know.
Micah: Well, they should make Moaning Myrtle a teenager, which is what she was when she was killed by the Basilisk.
Eric: That’ll be so weird, being so familiar with the movies.
[Eric and Micah laugh]
Julian: And I also wonder how they’re going to handle some of the… because I think regardless of her age, it’s still disconcerting. In the book, she talks about Cedric stays in the bathroom until the bubbles are… there’s a lot of things that I’m like, “Eh, I mean, you being a 16-year-old girl still doesn’t take away a bit of the creep factor that’s going on here, girl. I’m still a little bit disconcerted.”
Micah: She’s also in the bathroom at the Wizarding World in Orlando, if you’ve been.
Eric: Oh, yeah, that too.
Julian: Yeah, and I don’t love it.
Eric: You know, she might be one of the very few ghosts that actually appreciates some things about being a ghost. Let her have that. Let her have her privacy breaking. [laughs]
Julian: I would be fine with it if it didn’t traumatize Harry, but he’s literally like, “I don’t go to that bathroom anymore because I’m traumatized by what I’ve experienced.”
Eric: Well, no, plenty of people… yeah, Hermione says the same thing too. So we’ll see. Interesting!
Micah: Funny enough, that bathroom comes up in this very chapter.
Julian: It does.
Eric: Oooh.
Micah: How appropriate. Well, before we get to Chapter by Chapter, just a few reminders: If you love MuggleCast and want to help keep the show running better than Hermione’s innocent bystander impression, we invite you to become a member of our community at Patreon.com/MuggleCast. By joining, you’ll get instant access to two bonus episodes every month, ad-free episodes, access to our livestreams, a personal video “Thank you” from one of the four hosts, a physical gift delivered by owl each year, and so much more. And if you’re looking for other ways to support us, you can leave us a review in your favorite podcast app, you can tell a fellow Muggle about our show, and you can visit MuggleCastMerch.com to buy official gear. And a little update on the merch store: We’ve lowered our prices on our overstock store, so visit MuggleCastMerch.com, click the overstock store link at the top, and then grab something for yourself, like our “19 Years Later” T-shirt.
Chapter by Chapter: Pensieve
Micah: And now it’s time for Chapter by Chapter. Half-Blood Prince Chapter 6, “Draco’s Detour.”
Eric: The last time that we talked about this chapter specifically through a Chapter by Chapter segment was back on MuggleCast 384. I’m so sorry, guys, we had the best episode title, called “Nobody Screams for Ice Cream…”
[Everyone laughs]
Micah: Not anymore.
Eric: … as a result of Florean Fortescue’s disappearance. Yeah, sorry about that.
Micah: Including Florean.
Eric: That was back on September 17, 2018. Now, this Pensieve segment we’re about to do is a slightly longer clip, but I think you’ll find that the chaos is off the charts, and Julian, I really want your thoughts after we listen to it. Are you ready?
Julian: I’m ready.
Eric: Okay.
Dumbledore: What you are looking at are memories. This is the most important memory I’ve collected. It is from MuggleCast Episode 384.
[Sound of memory uncorking]
[Sound of plunging into Pensieve]
Eric: This is not the first time I’ve ever been confused in a Harry Potter book, but this is absolutely the biggest, most prevalent, pressing question that I have had about the series as a whole. What is U-No-Poo?
[Andrew and Kamilah laugh]
Kamilah: Oh my God. This is my favorite thing that they did.
Andrew: Kamilah, can you explain it? U-No-Poo?
Kamilah: I think it’s a kind of brilliant pun, because if you have a lot of anxiety and stress, you might actually be kind of constipated, etc., right? And so I think people are so stressed, they’re actually constipated over all of this, You-Know-Who, Voldemort being back.
Eric: But it’s not a product, right? It’s not a product.
Andrew: No, it is.
Kamilah: Oh, I don’t know. Is it a product?
Eric: You don’t see anybody buying it, right? I didn’t know if it was a product or what.
Kamilah: I feel like it’s probably both, which is actually even more brilliant. Not only is it this insane pun and sign to grab your attention, but also you could probably buy it to prank your friends.
Andrew: Right.
Eric: Because that’s what confuses me.
Andrew: It’s a prank product, though. It’s one of their pranks. I wonder if Fred and George had dreams of feeding Voldemort U-No-Poo. U-No-Poo for You-Know-Who.
[Kamilah laughs]
Andrew: Give him a 30-year constipation.
Eric: Does it cause constipation or cure constipation? I’m so confused.
Andrew: Cause.
Kamilah: I feel like it’s got to cause it, yeah. [laughs]
Andrew: U-No-Poo. No poo. You will not poo.
Eric: You will not poo. How do…?
Andrew: Does Voldemort poop?
[Kamilah laughs]
Andrew: After he was brought back.
[Sound of exiting Pensieve]
Dumbledore: This memory is everything.
[Julian laughs]
Eric: Once again, we want to thank – Julian, one of your fellow TikTokkers – Charlie Hopkinson, for the Gambon impression.
Julian: Beautiful.
Eric: Joining us, and then, of course, Michael Gambon himself there at the end with his appraisal of our maddening clip. What are your thoughts? Not to get too far ahead of ourselves…
Julian: We won’t go too deep in the weeds.
Eric: … but U-No-Poo: What is it and what does it do?
Julian: I think it was just a pun. I think they just were… because I think that they sell… it wouldn’t surprise me… I think it sounds like they’re selling laxatives.
Eric: Right.
Julian: Which feels more in line with the kind of jokes that they would sell than a constipation one, because we often see laxatives used as kind of gaffes…
Micah: Pranks.
Julian: Yeah, and pranks. So that would be my… I think that they were just saying, “Oh, you’re worried about this, but you actually should be worried about constipation,” and I think that’s right. That’s legitimate.
Eric: Well, and it downplays the severity of the situation for humor. It makes light of something that’s really otherwise terrifying.
Julian: Oh, 1,000%. And also, I think it provides people with the ability to… I mean, it’s interesting, right? Because Molly is like, “They’re going to be killed.” So she didn’t get the joke. It skipped her. But I do think that there’s a way that it adds a level of levity, and I think it also… the fact that they’re using the kind of iconography that the Ministry is using as well is also something that I think heightens the joke, and also, I think, to your point, brings down some level of anxiety, but also it’s good marketing because now everyone wants to go in and see what’s going on there.
Eric: Exactly. For a banner in front of the store, it’s attention-grabbing. It does everything right.
Julian: Yeah, absolutely.
Micah: I love where that conversation was going, though, too. The fact that we went from talking about this potential Weasleys’ Wizard Wheezes product to whether or not Voldemort defecates.
Julian: Yeah, that was a leap, a jump, but I think we’re asking the hard-hitting questions.
Eric: That is MuggleCast’s commitment to the listeners for 20 odd years now. Well, we famously… our first slogan was, “No theory is safe,” as in from scrutiny.
Chapter by Chapter: Main Discussion
Eric: So we’re going to continue our Chapter 6 discussion with Julian and Micah and me. So there’s a lot to do with Draco – after all, he’s the titular character of this chapter, “Draco’s Detour” – but first we’re going to spend some time with everyone else in this chapter. This is the chapter where Harry gets back to Diagon Alley, and this is a wonderful thing. We always love all the shops; we love his immersion into the wizarding world. But Diagon Alley is not quite the same, and in fact, at his birthday dinner, which takes place at the Burrow, it is revealed in a conversation between Lupin and Bill that both Florean Fortescue, of ice cream parlor fame, and Garrick Ollivander, of Ollivanders makers of fine wands since 382 BC, have both presumably been kidnapped, and they are no longer operating in business in Diagon Alley. So this is a shocker, especially… you tend to think of a proprietor, if the store has been there since 382 BC, you don’t expect it’s going to be whisked off the map all of a sudden. But Diagon Alley might not be the same as it used to be, guys, without these two pillars.
Micah: Right, and I think that’s exactly the point, because the safety nets are being removed. Diagon Alley, this bustling place of wizarding business, has really turned into a ghost town. The people who are there, their heads are down; they’re paranoid of any movement to their right or left. It kind of reminds me a little bit of the pandemic. And even the fun-loving ice cream man isn’t safe from Voldemort. And I think more broadly, it’s a continuation of this much darker tone that we’ve seen set right from the jump in Chapter 1, right? Where we’re with the other Minister, and we’re hearing all these stories of the different things that are happening both in the Muggle world and the wizarding world. And just in things that we’ve seen over these first couple of chapters, the way that our favorite characters are interacting with each other; they don’t trust each other to actually even be who they are, and now here we are in a place that we’re extremely familiar with, which has always been more or less a happy place to go, and it’s just anything but now.
Julian: And I think it also speaks volumes about why… and I want to preface this by saying I’m not excusing what Cornelius Fudge does in Order of the Phoenix, but I think that this particular reality speaks volumes as to why he did what he did. Because I think what we’re seeing from all of these people – the kind of tension, everyone being on edge – I think as a leader of government… and I think this is true both in the wizarding world, but just in general; you don’t want people to go to this place. And I also think it’s also why Voldemort didn’t want to be exposed for being back, because I think it made it a lot more difficult for him to be able to do all of these things fairly surreptitiously, because everyone is super on edge and hyperaware now, so all of the… I mean, I don’t think that you would have been able to take Fortescue and Ollivander and no one noticed, but maybe you could have attributed it to something else, but now everyone knows why they’re gone and what’s going on.
Eric: Ohh.
Julian: And so in some ways, it’s like both Voldemort and Fudge recognized the utility of keeping everyone in the dark about what was going on for different reasons, and we can see in this chapter why – for both of them, for again, for different reasons – why it was imperative that they did that, and what the implications of this kind of exposure actually means.
Eric: Yeah, I love that. And Micah, I love your call-out to Covid times, too, because the uncertainty in the air, and you can easily see how Voldemort or his people would also thrive on some of that energy. It’s certainly good for the Dementors, who are still attacking people randomly across the country. But it’s not a fun time to be in, and definitely to have to go out to get your schoolbooks, it should be a happy time, but you’re just… nobody’s looking at each other or talking, and it’s like, “We’re just going to get this done. This year maybe we don’t hang out for hours over at Quality Quidditch Supplies.”
Micah: Exactly.
Julian: It’s also an interesting thing for Harry, because so much of his existence of entering into the magical world has been such a drastic contrast to the Dursleys, right? And so for those of us who have gone to Universal, you walk into Diagon Alley and it’s a completely different world from the one that you left, intentionally. And now he walks in and it’s so desolate, and it’s not the 180 shift I think he’s used to when entering into the magical world, and I think that hits him very hard, because this was supposed to be a safe haven. I mean, even he notes walking into Leaky Cauldron that it’s empty for the first time. And I think for him, entering into the magical world is supposed to be such a sharp contrast to his Muggle life, and for the first time, it’s not, and I think that really drives home the point and the reality of what’s actually happening here.
Eric: Julian, it just reminded me the last time I went to my mall, my small town mall the last time, because it was about to be demolished, and nothing’s there. Nothing’s open. You’re walking around, it’s empty. And I’m remembering the time when that boy band came to FYE, Dream Street, it might have been? They were signing, and I just remember the lines out the door. But it wasn’t the same, and I love that you point it out as being like it’s this shift that historically has given Harry cheer, and now it’s just such a shocker for being the opposite.
Julian: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I think you can feel it in the chapter that he’s so unsettled, because I think even hearing that Ollivander and Fortescue are no longer there is one thing… it’s one thing to hear about it; it’s another thing to experience it. And that also is very indicative of Covid times, right? It’s like, you hear about it happening on distant shores, and you’re like, “Oh, that’s really bad,” and then it happens here, and you’re like, “Oh, I actually didn’t have a scope of what was going on here, and now I really do feel what is real,” and I think that what else is true is that that’s why Weasleys’ Wizard Wheezes hits very particularly, because it kind of captures the pathos of Diagon Alley of old in a lot of really interesting ways.
Eric: Yeah, it says to people, “You don’t need to be scared.” It’s just reminding people there’s an alternative, that they could also be having fun.
Julian and Micah: Yeah.
Micah: I was going to bring this up later, but it reminds me very much of a Dumbledore quote that “Happiness can be found even in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.” And that’s really what that joke shop is; it’s the light in the darkness of Diagon Alley.
Eric: The beacon. I love that. I decided while reading this chapter to look up why the ice cream man, because it’s kind of an odd sort of choice for somebody to go missing, and I was reminded that this was actually a ghost plot. So this does not get answered, and it’s not something that is closed up within the seven books. But actually, originally, according to the author, Florean Fortescue was going to be the deliverer of news about the Deathly Hallows and information to Harry in Book 7, and the setup for this goes all the way back to Prisoner of Azkaban when Florean Fortescue was helping Harry with his homework on medieval wizards, and so he has some history knowledge. Eventually, the information that Florean was going to be delivering to Harry regarding the Deathly Hallows sometime in Book 7 – they were going to interact – ended up being given to the Grey Lady and Phineas Nigellus Black.
Julian: Interesting.
Eric: So when we read our Deathly Hallows – which is next, everybody, in about 26 weeks…
[Julian and Micah laugh]
Eric: … I’ll be interested to look at what that information coming from Phineas Nigellus Black is. Obviously, the Grey Lady, we really don’t get her story till the end of the book. But yeah, so both Ollivander, who has, we know from reading Book 7, devastating information about how wands really work, and Voldemort captured him to force out of him how to make a wand that won’t trip up in the presence of Harry’s, or to find the unbeatable wand. Florean Fortescue was going to be the person who has the secret knowledge of something ancient, like the Deathly Hallows. So that was really interesting.
Julian: That is interesting.
Eric: Yeah, and it fits the overall trajectory of we’ve just come from Slughorn’s hideout, where he talks about the Death Eaters kind of… he’s been avoiding them for a year, and so the Death Eaters really are casting a wide net and grabbing people that have something to do with either something that Voldemort’s already done, or something he’s planning to do, and these people are being nabbed or killed.
Micah: Right. Well, and speaking of Death Eaters or former Death Eaters, we get mention of Igor Karkaroff. RIP.
Eric: Yeah, he didn’t make it.
Micah: He could only elude capture for so long.
Julian: He lasted, what did they say, a year?
Eric: About a year.
Micah: Yeah, a decent amount. I mean, he fled post-Triwizard Tournament?
Julian: Yeah, right after the Triwizard Tournament, and then they found him in a shack. Yeah, I mean, honestly, I’m with Lupin; I’m surprised he lasted that long, especially because I’m like, this guy was someone who was enjoying a very particular kind of lifestyle, and then had to give it all up, because he just wasn’t going to… because I mean, he ultimately knew that he was going to be… this wasn’t going to end well for him, even if he went back to Voldemort. If I was Igor Karkaroff, I would be so livid at Lucius Malfoy, because Lucius got off in the same way that Igor did, but did not suffer nearly as many of the consequences. And if I was Igor Karkaroff, as I’m trying to escape capture, I’m cursing Lucius’s name, and when I found out that he went into Azkaban, I’m rejoicing a little piece, because it’s like, “Yeah, and now finally you get your comeuppance, because you and I did the same thing, and yet I’m the one on the run? How dare you?”
Eric: You know what? I wonder if that was the last thing Igor found out before he died, that Lucius was in prison, and he was like, “Hah.”
Julian: Absolutely.
Micah: There’s a nice little Daily Prophet article stuffed in the shack with him. So hopefully he found out.
[Julian laughs]
Eric: Yeah, clutched in his hands. He died with a smile on his face.
Julian: Absolutely, yeah.
Eric: Oh, man. So a couple other things that are happening that we get that we find out from Bill: Apparently, there’s stricter security measures going on at Gringotts, and it’s making it take up to five hours, or about five hours, for people to get their gold out of their own vaults at Gringotts. This is nuts. There’s only one wizarding bank for the entire wizarding world; it’s Gringotts, and five hours to access your account. They need online banking.
Julian: And somehow Bill can just go in and get Harry’s gold? I just… I have so many follow-up questions about…
[Micah laughs]
Julian: I’m like, “Does Harry have a list?”
Micah: I’m glad you do, because I do too.
Julian: Yeah, does Harry have a list of people who just get to go…? Because this isn’t the first time, admittedly, that the Weasleys have gone in. And is it because he’s a minor that they just have a list of adult people who can go…? How did this happen?
Eric: Yeah, yeah. The books are rife with this, though. There’s all these things. There’s mail order in the wizarding world. Sirius Black…
Julian: Yeah, when Sirius Black just gets him a Firebolt.
Eric: Gets him a Firebolt. Now, from his own vault, from Sirius’s own vault, but he’s on the run, so he did that somehow without saying it was him that was getting the money from his own vault.
Julian: From his vault!
Eric: So how is that…? Do you send an owl?
Julian: So much for the safety of Gringotts, honestly.
[Eric laughs]
Julian: I just feel… we’re told very early on that this place is the safest place other than Hogwarts, and yet somehow we’ve got Crookshanks going in and giving in the mail order for the broom, and they’re just like, “Who cares if you are a convicted felon who’s on the run right now? We’re still going to take the money out.” The wizarding world doesn’t care about safety.
Eric: Somebody likes cats and was just like, “Aw, where do you want to go? Vault 712? Okay!”
Julian: “Cool!”
Eric: “Let’s go down!”
Julian: Into one of the most ancient of vaults, so it’s not even like it’s just some weird vault that no one knew who it belonged to.
Eric: No, it’s right next to Dumbledore’s.
Julian: Crazy.
Eric: No, that’s nuts. I love this line of questioning, because it kind of is just one of those things. I mean, Bill works for Gringotts; he’s definitely…
Micah: That doesn’t matter. You can’t… think about a normal bank; you can’t just have somebody at the bank go into your vault. Probably even if you wanted to, you would need to provide some sort of permission or show up yourself. But I mean, if this happened under normal circumstances, Bill would definitely be in a lot of trouble. I know there’s a lot of other things that are happening at this time, so maybe it gets overlooked, but he could get fired for this if Harry said, “Wait, what do you mean you went into my vault?”
Julian: Yeah, and the first book, they have to have a key to get into the vault. Where is that key? Does anybody know?
Eric: Nobody knows where the key is, but I’m so glad you brought up the key, because Dumbledore probably had the key. Hagrid presents the key in Book 1 when they go to Gringotts and they meet Griphook and all of that. Hagrid has the key. I bet the key was… I bet Hagrid took it off Lily and James, [laughs] but that it’s been with Dumbledore all this time. I think that Dumbledore might have been the executor of their will, or somebody who was trusted enough to set affairs in order, so Dumbledore had the vault key. Now, at that point, if you have the vault key, if you’re a trusted individual, if you’re maybe not a co-account holder, but he’s Dumbledore; come on, he’s not going to be this huge con man. Maybe he then created this list of approved people who are in Harry’s orbit that we can trust to go and move his money even without telling him.
Julian: That does not make me feel good.
Micah: I don’t know, because can Bill just go into Sirius’s vault now that Harry…?
Eric: Well, everyone raids Sirius’s vault, apparently, if a cat can just go in and say, “I need this money.”
Micah: I just wanted to bring up something that Kyle said in the Discord, because it’s actually a really good point. He said, “To be fair, Gringotts not caring if Sirius is a convict sounds very much like the Swiss banks, which is how I always imagined it.”
Julian: Fair.
Eric: Yeah, they just care about the money. They’re earning interest on it.
Julian: And also, I feel like the goblins are kind of like, “Whatever y’all have going on over there in y’all’s world is really none of our business.”
[Eric laughs]
Julian: And honestly, I love that for them, because it’s true. And also, they are excluded until wizards want to include them, and so it’s like, “He’s not killing us, so whatever y’all have going on is really, really none of our business.”
Eric: I’ve got a poem for them. But also, the question that I had… this is a question that has to be answered a little quieter, but Bill just throws a lump of money, of Galleons, that is from Harry’s vault. We do not see him do that to his parents. He’s not like, “Hey, Mom and Dad, I got our money out too.” Do the Weasleys not have a vault at Gringotts? I’m wondering, do they…?
Julian: No, they do, because we see them go into it. In, I believe, Chamber of Secrets, they go into it.
Eric: Oh, goodness, you’re right. And Harry notices that it’s really modest.
Julian: Yeah, and Molly is kind of scraping around in the corners to get things out of it.
Eric: Yeah. Okay, thank you. I’d forgotten about that.
Julian: Yeah, and so they definitely have one. But in this chapter, though – and I noticed it probably for the first time – I’m like, “Oh, y’all are out here spending money as if it doesn’t… like there’s no problem.” I think it’s because Arthur got a raise, so now they’re kind of living, because Ron is going to get new robes – new robes! Like they’re going to have them made, and that was not… they were buying secondhand before this, so that was a good raise.
Eric: That’s such a good point.
Micah: Also, in fairness, they don’t have as many kids at Hogwarts anymore either.
Julian: That’s true. It’s really only the two now, so they’re just…
Eric: Yeah, fewer school books, fewer sets of… yeah.
Julian: And also, I’m wondering if Fred and George are sending money home.
Micah: I was going to say, yeah.
Julian: Because they’re loaded.
Eric: Molly should be charging them a storage fee because she’s storing all their old knickknacks in the Burrow.
Julian: Listen… and a finder’s fee. I’d be like, “You all invented so much of this stuff here in my house? You guys can give me a couple of the earnings.”
[Micah laughs]
Eric: Oh, yeah, like eminent domain. Like, it’s patented here, yeah.
Julian: Absolutely.
Micah: Molly seems like the kind of parent, though, that would not take it. She wouldn’t take the money.
Julian: Oh, she wouldn’t. No, no. But it’s so interesting because I noticed it today; I was like, oh, when she sends Ron, Harry, and Hermione to go to get new robes, and there’s no trepidation, they go and buy the books, and there’s seemingly no concern about the money part of it, which is such a drastic contrast to when they go to Diagon Alley in Chamber of Secrets, and everyone’s like, “This is going to be really expensive.” And to Micah’s point, there are less of them, but I also do think that they’re in a different position, because Arthur definitely got a new position, got a new job, that is much more high profile because of what the Death Eaters are doing, Fred and George are making a lot more money, and there are less kids at Hogwarts. So I think taken together, they’re in a much better financial position to be able to just go, and Molly seems very comfortable with this, in a way that suggests to me like she’s been waiting for this day her whole life.
[Everyone laughs]
Micah: She should buy herself something.
Julian: I hope so.
Eric: Yeah! Aw. So let’s talk about some of the security arrangements, because they are actually going. They do actually all have to get stuff, as you mentioned. So I want to throw it back to our most recent discussions about Dumbledore and various goings-on; he’s active in pretty much all of these chapters. So you’ll recall a few chapters ago, after meeting Slughorn, Dumbledore leaves Molly and Harry at the Burrow and says he’s about to meet with Rufus Scrimgeour. We joked on that previous episode, Julian, of he shows up at Scrimgeour’s at like, 1:00 a.m., because it was super late at night and he just keeps dropping in on people. It’s tactless.
Julian: Doing whatever he wants.
Eric: Yeah, he does what he wants! He’s Dumbledore; what are you going to do? But we now can guess at what he ended up talking to Scrimgeour about, and it might have been these security plans. So we find that they have that good old Ministry driver car, a private car that’s been extended on the inside that was super fun from Chamber of Secrets, I think we were first introduced to that. But we also find out that Dumbledore specifically called off the Aurors. So they were originally going to have a team of Aurors just walking them around to do their shopping, and Dumbledore told Scrimgeour – we hear this from Hagrid – that Hagrid would be fine. And the interesting thing about this… so now we know that part of Dumbledore and Scrimgeour’s conversation was probably regarding Harry’s security, but aren’t Aurors actually better at protecting Harry Potter and his friends from dark corners than maybe Hagrid would be?
Julian: Yes.
Eric: Is Dumbledore putting Harry at risk here?
Julian: I think Dumbledore knows that, in a way that very few other people would, Hagrid would do anything for Harry. He would literally… and he reminds us in the first book, he would trust Hagrid with his life. But I think he’s counting on Hagrid being part-giant, thus impervious to a lot of spells. I think he’s counting on the fact that Hagrid is intimidating enough that people won’t mess with him, just in general. And I think he’s counting on the fact that Hagrid is someone who, again, would let anything befall him before it befell Harry, and I think that he’s counting on… and in a lot of ways, that is very on brand for Dumbledore. That’s kind of his vibe of just recognizing or putting faith and trust in his inner circle, rather than institutional people, which I get. I would have preferred the Aurors myself, but I can understand why he would have chosen Hagrid for this.
Eric: [laughs] That makes sense.
Micah: I tend to agree. Hagrid, though, as we’ve seen… the trio are able to elude him.
Eric: Easily.
Micah: I think part of the challenge of having somebody along the lines of Hagrid is that Hagrid has a soft spot, first and foremost, for all three of them, so he might be much more easily fooled by suggestion. In this case, they just use the Invisibility Cloak to get around him, and even Molly is suspicious, right? When they return of where they’ve been; Hagrid is really none the wiser at the end of the day. But I do think having Ministry officials makes more sense, but perhaps Dumbledore also thinks that an attack or any other kind of attempt in public is just not a reality right now. Something’s not going to happen in Diagon Alley; probably more likely to happen somewhere else. But even more than that, where my head is at right now with Dumbledore is that he’s just had enough of the Ministry; they had their chance to play nice. And I talked about this in the last episode: He’s a man on a mission. He’s got no time to play games anymore. He’s got his burnt hand, he’s got only limited time, and he’s got to get done everything he needs to get done in the time that he’s got left.
Eric: Yeah, the hand reminds me he’s cursed. He’s cursed. He actually… presumably, it will actually take his life, I think is what Snape tells him at some point.
Julian: And I also think that he is, I think to Micah’s point, so untrusting of the Ministry in any capacity, and I think he’s not willing to take a chance, even if it seemingly is with Harry’s best interests at heart. I don’t think he trusts the Ministry to actually have Harry’s best interests at heart. I think he fundamentally believes that they will screw it up somehow, and so he’s like, “I know I personally – me, Dumbledore – can trust Hagrid, and that’s who needs to go, because I don’t think that you all are actually as committed to this.” And we also don’t know who’s in league with Voldemort, who’s not…
Eric: Oh.
Julian: … there’s just a lot of uncertainty going on here, and Dumbledore is also a control freak, so he’s not going to leave things to chance in that regard.
Eric: Yeah. Yeah, no, I think that hit the nail on the head. Ultimately, Aurors, who do they answer to? The Minister. They don’t answer to Dumbledore. They don’t…
Micah: Some of them do. Tonks and Mad-Eye and Kingsley, they answer to Dumbledore.
Eric: Hey, fair point, fair point. But we know Scrimgeour has been trying to get Harry recruited for propaganda stuff, and Dumbledore is adamant about not even letting that meeting take place between Harry and Scrimgeour. So if the Aurors are walking them around Diagon Alley, what’s to say they haven’t been ordered to take them down an alley where Scrimgeour is waiting just to make the pitch? Even if it’s just for five minutes, that’s something that the Aurors could do that Dumbledore… they’d be ordered to do it, and Dumbledore couldn’t prevent it, so he’s kind of ruling that out. He’s making that no longer a possibility too.
Micah: I also think it’s also just a level of comfort for Harry to have Hagrid there.
Eric: It’s comforting to know you can just waltz right by somebody to evade them, who’s protecting you.
Micah: Yeah, that’s that big and… yeah.
Julian: And I also think… I mean, I think this is one of the few moments where we see, I think, Dumbledore trying to make Harry feel as normal as he possibly can in the situation by virtue… and I mean, and it’s a beautiful callback, right? And even Hagrid acknowledged it; it’s like old times because Hagrid is there with him when he goes to Diagon Alley the first time, he’s there with him in Chamber of Secrets, and so that there is a way in which this feels… in the midst of everything going on in Diagon Alley, all the change, there is this kind of anchor that is Hagrid that feels very comforting to Harry, I think…
Micah: Agree.
Julian: … while also serving as, I mean, meaningful protection. I mean, Hagrid is gullible and aloof, but he is also impervious to a lot of things that even Aurors aren’t impervious to.
Eric: No.
Julian: And he’s a massive imposition. I think if I’m a Death Eater, I’m not as convinced about my ability to take him on versus some random other fully wizard person.
Eric: I think those are all good points. I wanted to touch on, once again, this sign outside of Fred and George’s shop. Now, Julian, you were mentioning earlier, Molly’s reaction to this is basically “They’ll be murdered in their beds,” for having this sign that kind of pokes fun at You-Know-Who; it does a pun on his name. And I don’t think that she’s hyperbolizing; I think that she really thinks that these are the stakes. These are what they are opening themselves up to; they’re making themselves vulnerable, and maybe the subject of drawing Voldemort’s ire. So what I wanted to ask you, especially as a professor of social justice and your extensive history teaching on the matter, what is the importance of what it is that Fred and George are doing here, in poking fun? In kind of deflating a little bit of the balloon of this dark place that everyone is in?
Julian: Sure. I want to make two points, and then… so the first is I think Molly’s reaction is totally reasonable, because we have to remember that she is also the sister of two men who died in the first wizarding war, and so there’s a lot of trauma that she and all the adults in the wizarding world have not quite dealt with. And so I think in her mind, it’s like, “Keep your head down, don’t make any ripples, and maybe you’ll survive, unlike my brothers.” And I think when she looks at Fred and George, I think she sees her two brothers a lot, which is why she’s so hard on them. And I think that this scares her to death, because she’s just like, “This feels like history repeating itself.” To your question, Eric, I think humor plays a really big part in this, and I think Micah’s invocation of Covid really makes me think of a lot of the art that came out of that really desolate time where a lot of people were… we saw a lot of really creative things coming up for people, and I think that there’s a way that everyone leans into certain… they lean into certain things, like humor, like art, to try to make sense of things, but also to kind of pull themselves out of the space that they can so easily find themselves in. And so I feel like it’s really important… I mean, when we think about, in the days of old, they used to have troops go and travel around with the service people to do shows for them, to kind of try to raise morale…
Eric: Yes!
Julian: … because it was so important that they didn’t feel completely isolated and completely desolate in the spaces that they were in. And in some ways, I think that that’s kind of what Fred and George are doing, and I think there’s a way that everyone is looking for different means to navigate this particular moment, and I think that humor is one of them. I mean, there’s a reason why that shop is so packed, right? And I feel like there’s a way in which the desire for something that is even remotely hopeful is it leads people to go to these places, and I think Fred and George have also been people who, for better or for worse, take very little actually seriously, and in some ways, I don’t think that they did this intentionally. I think that this is just who they are, and I think that who they are is very helpful to everyone else.
Eric: Yeah, yeah.
Micah: Right. It’s a bit of laughing in the face of danger.
Julian: Exactly, yeah.
Micah: And they’ve not known any different. I mean, even go back to what they did at the end of Order of the Phoenix, right? Defying Umbridge, defying the Ministry, and escaping Hogwarts, or departing Hogwarts the way that they did. And here they are now with their joke shop in Diagon Alley, and part of me doesn’t even think that they care all that much about Voldemort at the end of the day. And truth be told, Voldemort doesn’t care about the sign either, and the truth is, he probably never even found out about it. But this goes back to what I was saying earlier, of this joke shop being this beacon of light. Julian, what you were saying about how packed it is, right? It’s a small thing in the grand scheme, but it’s giving people a little bit of hope, it’s giving people a little bit of levity in an otherwise very, very dark time, just from the first couple of chapters and what we’ve seen so far.
Julian: And it’s crazy because I think, to your point, Micah, they don’t… they were really surprised about the success of their Shield Hats, and they’re like, “Oh, we just made these as kind of a gag, and now the Ministry is just buying them in droves.” And it’s like, “Yeah, because you all are in the middle of a war.” But it doesn’t resonate with them in a way, and I think that’s both the folly of youth; I think it’s the privilege of being a part of the pure-blood class that’s kind of like, you know that at the end of the day, whatever Voldemort is up to is probably not going to touch you. But I also think it’s just Fred and George being Fred and George.
Micah: Right.
Julian: And I really love… I remember laughing at that and thinking, “You all know that bad things are afoot, right?”
[Micah laughs]
Julian: And they’re just like, “It’s crazy that they like these hats! And so we’ve expanded it, not because we want to protect people, but because it’s really good at making us money.”
Eric: Yeah. Well, it’s interesting with the capitalist lean there, of, “We’re making a ton of money! It’s raking it in!”
Julian: Exactly.
Eric: I also, though, really see this shop and this chapter as being the moment that Fred and George – coupled with everything that was said about Umbridge last year – this is their Gryffindor moment. Because ultimately, what they’re doing is brave. They are putting a target, a bright beacon, target, on themselves for everything that they are doing here. And in fact, arming the Ministry employees, who otherwise wouldn’t know how to cast a Shield Charm, is something that goes up and it hurts Voldemort’s cause actually a lot more than it otherwise would. They are being so brave… to crack a joke is maybe their natural instinct, but that’s also bravery when the stakes are high, when people are being disappeared from their ice cream shop, for, I don’t know, selling peanut butter raspberry ice cream. Who doesn’t…? Did they offend the Dark Lord by selling pistachio or not selling pistachio? Was he really a big fan, and he didn’t have any… he’s like, “Florean, you’re coming with me”?
Julian: “Get him.”
Eric: Yeah, so you just don’t know what’s going to set off Voldemort and his cause, so there’s so much uncertainty. And yet, here Fred and George are with their shop. I understand the comment of they only have one natural state, and it’s this; they’re just being themselves, but there’s bravery in it.
Micah: There’s a ton of creativity here, though, too, and I think this shop is also… it’s validation. It’s validation for all of the antics we’ve seen them get up to over the course of these first couple of books, right? And in some part we see Molly start to soften a little bit when she actually steps foot in the shop and sees how successful they are and some of the products that they’ve made – Hermione comments on it as well – and so I just think part of this is also showing you don’t have to be booksmart all the time. There’s other ways to go about being successful, whether it’s in the wizarding world or whether it’s in the real world.
Eric: They’re dropouts.
Julian: But I think they are booksmart. I think clearly… even just reading about the idea of these patented daydream situations, I’m like, “That sounds so intense.”
Eric: Oh, yeah.
Julian: I think for me, it’s like, they are very booksmart, but the way that they choose to display it is not for the purposes of being superior to everyone else. They are actually trying to use it to uplift in a way that I think is interesting, because I think some of what they’re doing is crazy. I mean, the magic is really intense. Even just the telescope that punches Hermione, right?
[Micah laughs]
Julian: The fact that they can’t get the bruise out, that Mrs. Weasley is trying so hard with everything that she knows about that, and they can’t, and then they just have a little salve because they’re like, “Well, we’re testing it on ourselves, so we have to figure it…” There’s a way in which I think we really underestimate how smart Fred and George are, because they don’t necessarily do well on the more formalized things, but they actually are doing really advanced and intricate magic. I mean, the transfiguration of the Canary Clusters, right? Of just you’re turning someone into a bird, and then they turn back? I mean, when we think about what it is that people can actually do when they’re learning it at school versus what they’re able to pull off, it’s very, very impressive.
Eric: Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I think we were agreeing last week that… their OWL results come in, and Molly says that Ron got more than Fred and George combined. I think that that’s not reasonable anymore. Seeing all they… because even if you… you’d have to deliberately put the wrong answer. They clearly know enough about magic. I understand people don’t test well sometimes, but for them both to not have gotten seven OWLs is deliberate malfeasance on Fred and George’s part. Clearly they…
Julian: Yeah, they just don’t care.
Eric: They don’t care.
Julian: I think that at the end of the day, it’s like, they know that whatever getting an Outstanding OWL means has no… it doesn’t matter for them, because at the end of the day, they know they’re going to make that ghost – [laughs] that ghost shop – that joke shop no matter what, and so their future for them is very set. From Goblet of Fire on, they’re like, “This is what we’re going to do. We’re testing out our products. We’ve been making all of this stuff.” They have the path, and so it’s like, “Well, why even care?” If you know you’re going to do that, you know you’re going to leave school, which is when they’re going to… and they left in their OWL year. Or no, no, they left the year after. But at that point, you’ve already figured out… if you are going to blackmail government officials to get money owed for the joke shop, you’re not worried about your OWLs.
Eric: That’s fair.
Micah: For sure. And I like what Sam says in our Discord: “They’re engineers,” which is a cool way to look at it.
Eric and Julian: Yeah.
Eric: And it just shows that everyone has a place, something to offer.
Micah: Absolutely.
Eric: Even people who dropped out, chose to leave, for whom school was not their primary thing.
Julian: Yeah. And it speaks to the rigidity of the magical world as well that we are really invited to see them up until this moment as not necessarily being successful, and we don’t really honor their entrepreneurial innovations because it doesn’t quite fit into the mold of what we’re expecting. And Molly is the person who’s inviting us to have these thoughts, and at the end of the day, she’s wrong, and I think she has to sit there and grapple with that reality that she is wrong about all of this. And the space that it comes from, her desire for that, I think is a good place; I think she just wants them to be comfortable and do better than they do, and all of that very parental stuff. But I think at the end of the day, Fred and George know who they are, and they know what they want, and they go about getting it, and there’s something really amazing about that in the face of a parent who is very adamant about the path you should take.
Eric: And Fred and George did end up getting one of the four possible adult wizarding professions for themselves, right?
[Julian laughs]
Eric: You’re either a professor, you either work for the Ministry, maybe even as a cop or an Auror, or you’re a proprietor of a shop in Diagon Alley. They ended up doing the last one anyway!
Julian: They did it. Yeah, yeah. I mean, they got out of the Hogwarts-to-Ministry pipeline and are making significantly more money than probably anyone else in their family. They probably are the most successful Weasleys for generations.
Eric: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And it also doesn’t make them any safer, being a proprietor, because two of the proprietors have been taken! So there’s not… in whatever line they were originally supposed to trot, I think Molly is coming to terms with, and fully understands. She’s acknowledged at this point that, “Okay, they’re a little off the beaten path, but they’re doing really incredible stuff.” Hermione sees it too. Harry is just happy to get everything for free. [laughs]
Julian: And honestly, I don’t blame him. I love a good sale, especially when it’s for free.
Eric: Well, I appreciate that about their honoring… they say, “You gave us our startup loan,” and that’s not strictly what… I mean, he did, but he still would pay for this stuff.
Julian: Yeah. I also think that they’re drastically underestimating how wealthy Harry is…
[Eric and Julian laugh]
Julian: … that guy, he could buy this place a couple times over. But I do appreciate how loyal they are to his loyalty to them, I think, and that they’re willing to be generous and actually adamant. Like, “Your money is no good here.”
Eric: Yeah, yeah. All right, well, after talking about all that really happy stuff, let’s talk about… let’s slither on over to Madam Malkin’s, where Draco Malfoy is being fitted for robes. And the section of this document I put is, “Why does Malfoy suck so badly?”
[Julian laughs]
Eric: Because it’s not a moment of him seeing the trio have entered before he utters a really nasty racial slur, calling Hermione, and says that she smells. He’s always talking about… he must be super sensitive to smell; he’s always talking about how Ron’s family smells and Mudbloods smell and it’s a whole thing. But it’s foul. It’s bad.
Julian: When I got to this point, I was like, “Oh, this…” I’m going to say these words, and I mean them in the most condescending way possible: poor Malfoy. Because I think at the end of the day, both he and his mom are just like, “We really used to be amazing. The people used to just think that we were the best, and now we are absolutely disgraced.” And one thing about people in that position is that they are going to try to find whatever way they can to prove that they still got it, and I feel like what we’re seeing here is them trying to be like, “And we’re still prejudiced, even though none of it means anything anymore…”
[Eric laughs]
Julian: “… because my husband and this kid’s dad is an Azkaban, but we can still hold these views, and we can still cosplay superiority, even though we’re not actually superior.” And it’s a moment of “Thou dost protest too much.” You’re doing… you’re overplaying your hand. And when you juxtapose what Draco does here with what Lucius does in Flourish and Blotts in Chamber of Secrets, where Lucius is just so coolly being like, “God, you Weasleys are really garbage,” and it’s so not at all having to prove anything, to this moment where they’re like, “Remember that time you were Muggle-born?”
[Eric and Micah laugh]
Julian: It’s so aggressive. It’s so aggressive, and it just strikes me as “You are working so hard to try to reclaim a thing that you have lost.” And I don’t feel bad for them, I don’t feel bad for them at all, but I do think that a lot of what motivates what is happening here is the fact that they are both trying to cosplay the versions of themselves that existed before Lucius got locked up.
Eric: Wow. So there’s a huge amount of denial there, and the fact that Malfoy goes straight for the most foul thing that comes to his mind is that level of desperation on his part.
Julian: Yes, exactly. It’s like, “Who am I the most better than here? Who do I feel the most superior to? It’s not the other pure-blood wizard who just happens to be poor, and it’s not the famous dude who’s the savior of all time right now. It’s this Muggle-born girl who has bested me in everything, but nobody knows that, so I’m just going to go for her because she’s the lowest-hanging fruit to make me feel better about the circumstance that we’re in right now.”
Eric: This blows my mind. This utterly blows… the analysis of why he picked Hermione to make the dirty comment about blows my mind.
Micah: It totally does, though. And you bringing up the scene with Lucius in Flourish and Blotts in Chamber of Secrets, I’m a little bit maybe more drawn to the movie moment here where Lucius says, “Manners, Draco.”
Julian: Yes, exactly.
Micah: And there’re no effing manners in this scene with Narcissa.
Julian: No, yeah.
Micah: I mean, it’s complete opposite.
Julian: Yeah, because it’s like you can have a level of insidious decorum when you know that you’re untouchable, but it just makes me think of the moment in the graveyard where Voldemort is like, “And now I can touch him,” and he touches Harry, but Voldemort has done that to the Malfoys. They were so untouchable until he came back, and now Lucius is in Azkaban, they are absolutely disgraced, and they’re trying to walk around with an air of who they were, and they are not those people anymore. And when you’re in that position… and Draco is young and stupid, and he’s always been more reckless than I think… he’s never had the grace that his father has had, in terms of how he displays his prejudice, and I think his insecurity about how much better Hermione is than him in literally everything always jumps out, and that’s where Lucius is… even, again, in Chamber of Secrets, Lucius is like, “It’s embarrassing that you are so off-put by this girl of much lower birth than you. You’ve really got to find a way to lock that down.” And this moment, it all jumps out again, because that’s all he has; he doesn’t have anything else. And the Malfoy name means… it’s mud, it’s mud now, and I think that both he and Narcissa are reeling, because neither of them were conditioned to ever live a life where this was going to be the case.
Micah: Yeah, that’s so true.
Eric: Yeah, and who should walk in but the people who are most responsible for their fall from grace?
Julian: Exactly, exactly. And then…
Micah: Well, they’re responsible for their fall from grace.
Julian: That’s true.
Micah: I know what you’re saying.
Eric: Well, they’re not going to see it that way, though. They’re not going to see it that way.
Micah: No, and I think I’m a little bit disappointed in Harry in this situation. I know Narcissa is the adult in the room outside of Madam Malkin, but I really expected more of Harry. I know he gets triggered by Narcissa because she looks so much like her sister – we’re told that explicitly – and so it’s him really seeing Bellatrix. It’s him being triggered by her murdering Sirius at the end of Order of the Phoenix. So there’s that at play, but just the way that he chooses to interact with Narcissa, I honestly expected a lot more from Harry.
Eric: I mean, Harry gets a good line, and he calls Lucius “your loser husband,” and then they’re having a banter, they’re doing a banter thing, Narcissa is talking about how… Narcissa, by the way – don’t overlook this – cards on the table, flat out is talking straight of Voldemort’s plan to kill Dumbledore by the end of this year, and to have that be a done thing. She straight up says to Harry, “Oh, Dumbledore won’t always be around to protect you.” It’s like, we know that she knows about this from “Spinner’s End,” that it’s actually been a source of grief for her, the fact that Dumbledore is supposed to die, because he wants her kid to do it. So she’s taken this thing that would normally give her pause and is flaunting it and turning it around, and being like, “I know something you don’t know,” or like, “Dumbledore won’t always be there to protect you.” And what’s Harry to do? He’s just able to crack a… he doesn’t understand the deeper implications of what’s going on, so he cracks a joke. He’s like, “Oh, I guess Dumbledore’s not around here!” I love Harry in this chapter, in this moment, and the fact that he’s able to kind of pick further at “your loser husband.” Nobody a year ago, not even Harry, would have felt right in calling Lucius a loser, because he had so much going for him, right? Fudge was in his pocket, all this other stuff, so that “loser” might reinforce the fact to them, to their faces, that “Hey, you guys have lost a lot of social status. Your husband’s a loser, and I’m going to tell you that,” and I think it’s… I don’t know. I kind of like Harry in this moment.
Julian: I think Harry is behaving, for the first time in a long time, like the 16-year-old that he actually is. I feel like our expectations of him are a little bit higher because he’s been tasked with doing a lot of very adult things. I think that in this moment, he’s kind of… I think he’s feeling the opposite of what the Malfoys are feeling. He’s feeling outrageously empowered, because he’s like, “You have no power, and isn’t that something? And I am the Ministry darling.” I think he feels very secure. I’m not justifying what he said, although I do love him just being like, “Dumbledore’s not here right now! What about it?”
Eric: “Come at me, dude.”
Julian: Which I also think is kind of stupid of him and reckless…
[Eric laughs]
Julian: … because I’m like, “Dude, Narcissa could actually kick your butt, and I think you’re underestimating how good she probably is at dueling, but you’re feeling yourself, so fine.” But I do think that he’s… I think this is a moment where we’re seeing, in many ways, the tables turned, because he is behaving like Draco, like the Draco of old.
Eric: Ohh.
Julian: Outrageously arrogant, super cocky, kind of like, “I’m untouchable.” And whether he feels it or not is one thing or the other, but I think a lot of the way that he’s operating is with that air of confidence and self-assuredness that we normally see Draco use, like when we see Draco in Goblet of Fire when they’re after the Death Eaters’ attack, and he’s literally running around being like, “My dad’s the one out there messing with those Muggles,” and you’re like, “Dude, that’s so stupid and reckless. What a thing to say.” And I think that that’s where Harry is at right now. He’s like, “Oh, yeah, so now what do you want to do? You want to fight? Let’s do it.”
Eric: Man.
Micah: Yeah, and what I find so fascinating about this particular moment, as we sit here in “Draco’s Detour” in Chapter 6 of Half-Blood Prince, is that Narcissa is going to do a complete 180 by the time we get to Deathly Hallows.
Julian: Yep.
Micah: To think about her and the way that she’s behaving towards Harry right now, versus where we are by the time we get towards the tail end of Deathly Hallows, is just drastically different.
Julian: The dissent that she takes.
Eric: Well, yeah, there have been some cracks in the facade, but this is only the beginning, and by the end of the next year, or by the end of Book 7, that’s all going to wash away, and her role as protector of Draco, as mother to Draco, is laid bare, is the number one thing she chooses for her identity; not the closeness with the Death Eaters, not her loyalties or allegiances to the Dark Lord or pure-blood-ism or whatever. So there’s going to be this moment where she is so, so, so vulnerable that she needs something from Harry, and what she needs from Harry is comfort in knowing that her son is still alive, and so that moment is the entire crux of the whole series, when a mother lies to protect, to save. But at the moment, they’re still seeing themselves as adversaries. And you know what’s interesting, is doesn’t Harry freak out when he sees Andromeda in Deathly Hallows?
Julian: Yep. She looks like Bellatrix.
Eric: Again, because she looks so much like Bellatrix. Yeah, so Harry has definitely got a problem with their face. [laughs] But he’s still… he’s not going to soon forget that, or that familial… that very strong familiar resemblance, but I think by the end, Harry even understands where Narcissa is coming from.
Julian: And I also think that at this moment, despite all that Voldemort has done to their family, I think that they’re externalizing out a lot of the blame to Harry, to Dumbledore, to other people…
Eric: Right.
Julian: … and it’s like, no, Voldemort let Lucius go to Azkaban, because he broke out all those other people, and he’s letting Lucius rot. And so it’s like, “You aren’t blaming the right person.” And I think by the time we get to Deathly Hallows, she’s blaming the right person, and so she’s like, “Okay, I’m attributing all of what I’m feeling, the negative feelings that I’m having, to the person to whom all this is the… he’s the reason.”
Micah: Right.
Julian: And so I think in this moment they’re still very… their loyalty to Voldemort is leading them to externalize, like any good cult member. It’s never the cult leader’s fault; it’s everyone else’s fault. And I think once we get to Deathly Hallows, she’s like, “Oh, no, no, no. It’s your fault, and I don’t want this anymore.”
Micah: Yeah. Well, and a lot of that has to do with the fact that he brings the horror of it all right into their home, literally into their home, and that plays a major factor. The last thing I’ll just say about this interaction between the trio and Narcissa and Draco is I think for the Malfoys, they’re also really feeling the pressure of the moment and everything that has been tasked to Draco to have to accomplish, and so the very last thing they want to deal with is running into Harry, Ron, and Hermione in a shop in Diagon Alley, and I think they’re letting the weight of the moment really weigh heavily on them.
Julian: Yeah, I don’t think they… and I feel like they are not… well, they’re not used to this, right? And I always tell my students; I’m like, “There’s a difference between being a Death Eater when Voldemort is gone and being a Death Eater when he’s back and calling the shots.” And I think the Malfoys really enjoyed the former, because it was a power play amongst the people who cared about that kind of thing, and so now it’s actually meaningful in a way that does not line up with their own expectations, with their own desires. And Lucius was the one who pretty much was the face of that particular part of their life, and now he’s gone, and it’s fallen to Draco. And I think Draco, in theory, wanted to be a Death Eater under the auspices that it was going to be more like a social club, hang out with friends with a tattoo, versus, “Oh, you want me to kill the most powerful wizard of all time with no assistance.” That’s a very different thing. And so some of this, I think, also to Micah’s point, is the stress of what he’s been tasked to do, and what Narcissa has to support him in doing.
Micah: Definitely.
Eric: Fair enough. So unfortunately, this mommy/son duo is split up on the back half of the chapter, because while in Weasleys’ Wizarding Wheezes, the trio happens to see that Draco has snuck off. So they dust out the old cloak that barely fits them, they sneak past Hagrid with their ankles probably showing, but Hagrid is whistling something – he doesn’t care – and they find Draco is going down Nocturn Alley. Here’s a question: Why was it necessary for Draco to have the conversation that he has with Mr. Borgin, of Borgin and Burke, without Narcissa being present? This is a change with the movie, too. In the movie in this moment, a lot of Death Eaters are right there with Draco in this shop, but here it’s all him. And speaking strictly from a book place, my question, again, is why did he get rid of Narcissa? Because Narcissa has a vested interest in helping Draco succeed, and her presence in the shop might actually help convince Mr. Borgin to help him.
Julian: I didn’t actually expect to do this, but it’s the third or fourth time that I’ve drawn a parallel to Chamber of Secrets. But you’ll remember…
Micah: You’re connecting the threads, as we like to say.
Julian: Yeah, and this moment is a very similar moment to when Lucius goes and… in the very beginning of Chamber of Secrets when Harry falls into Knockturn Alley and he’s selling off all his stuff.
Eric: And that cabinet.
Julian: And the cabinet, yeah. And I think that he… this is a moment where I think we as a reader are invited to see the parallels between Draco and Lucius, and I also think that Draco is like, “I’m grown.” Because he even says to Narcissa in Madam Malkin’s, “You don’t need to be with me while I’m getting my robes redone,” because he’s trying to jettison her so that he can go and do his plan. I also think that he realizes the danger of what he’s doing, and I think he knows his mom will try to stop him, or he perceives that she will. And I think it’s the… we just finished reading Half-Blood Prince in my class, and so a lot of what I’ve been talking about is the folly of youth and how I think a lot of what Draco is doing, both with Narcissa, ultimately with Snape, is like, “I can do this, and I don’t need anyone’s help,” and I told my students; I was like, “Think about yourself at 16 years old. So much of your existence is like, ‘I know what I’m doing. I can do it myself.'” And I think he doesn’t want her there because he doesn’t think he needs her there, and I think it’s kind of like watching a kid walk around in his dad’s clothes, trying to cosplay Lucius in Borgin and Burkes to do this whole thing as a direct callback to what we see Lucius doing in Chamber.
Eric: Pushing Borgin around.
Julian: Yeah, exactly. And I feel like there’s a really direct parallel of Draco trying to do that very same thing.
Micah: Totally. Yeah, and I’m wondering, too… we know that she knows, but does he know that she knows about the plan?
Eric: About the plot. Yeah, he could just genuinely be wanting to shield from having to explain it.
Micah: Keep her out of it.
Eric: That’s interesting.
Micah: I don’t know. Maybe we find out more later on; it’s been a while since I’ve reread this book. But I wonder, too, if some of it may be wanting to protect his mother from what’s going on? We know that he has definitely a closer relationship with her than he does with Lucius.
Eric: Well, and there’s that folly, though, again, like Julian was saying. The idea that Draco thinks that his mom might not know is like, “Oh, sweet summer child.” Of course she knows!
[Micah laughs]
Eric: She’s attuned to this! She’s going to… she has one job in this world, and it’s to care about you, you dummy.
Julian: She’s hatched a whole plan.
Eric: And I think there’s probably some dialogue at the beginning of “Spinner’s End,” when Bellatrix and Narcissa are arguing that she’s not supposed to know about the plan, or the plan is revealed, and “Keep it secret, don’t tell Snape,” this, that, the other thing. So yeah, it’s possible that Draco doesn’t know that Narcissa knows.
Julian: Yeah, yeah. And I think there’s a way… I think again, it’s… also, Draco is an only child. He’s the only boy, in a very patriarchal, old moneyed family. When dad is gone, you’re the man of the house, and so you have to kind of play that role, and I think part of that role is you’ve got to keep everything close to the chest, and you deal with your problems, and I think that that’s what he’s trying to do here. Little does he know that Narcissa is not dumb, and very adept at being like, “Okay,” and has already hatched an entire plan, has already set so many things in motion, literally made Snape make a death pact for Draco. And it’s kind of funny that Draco thinks that somehow she hasn’t… that he’s doing all of this without a backup plan being in place, because he thinks that… I mean, again, it goes back to him just being young and stupid and thinking, “I’ve got this, and my mom could never understand,” which feels very 16-year-old boy, despite being tasked with doing a very adult thing.
Eric: Well, we get on Harry for not bringing his friends in too often, but this is exactly what… Harry had that whole thing last year where he didn’t invite people in very much. This is what Draco is doing in this year, because he continuously rebuffs Snape – again, another adult with a darn good vested interest in helping you succeed…
Julian: Yes.
Eric: … and he will not accept any help from Snape. He’s like, “No, old man, you’re gross. Leave me alone. I don’t need your help.” When Snape could get this done tomorrow! [laughs] He’s not going to, but…
Julian: Right. And also, could die. When Snape says to you, “I took an Unbreakable Vow,” it’s like, “At this point, death is the end result for both of us if we don’t succeed. So now we both have… our lives are tied to one another.” I don’t know about y’all, but for me, I’m like, “That’s all I need to hear.” I would be so excited about the prospect of someone who’s not only tied into this with me, but also better at magic than me, saying, “Just let me help you do this.” I’d be like, “Yeah, let’s go.”
[Micah laughs]
Eric: Maybe he needs to prove it…
Julian: If I’m Draco and I’m crying in the bathroom, clearly we’re having some issues. I think it’s okay… but also, again, this is the 16-year-old boy of it all, where it’s like, “I’ve been tasked with doing this thing, and I’m going to do it, and I don’t need anybody’s help.” And that feels very 16 to me.
Eric: Yeah, this is just… this is this whole book, is it becoming real for Draco.
Julian: Yes, exactly.
Eric: Everything his… the views that his parents espouse, what that looks like, when you have a whole cult practicing it and bringing that negative energy into the world, what it looks like to be one on one, to have the Dark Mark tattooed on your arm and to feel his presence or whatever when he wants you to. Terrifying stuff that was glamorized because of the specific way that Lucius and Narcissa – to your point, Julian – behaved after Voldemort fell, about it being this great old club that they used to be in together, when the result is actually terrifying. Draco is not prepared for it, he doesn’t expect it, and so watching him in Borgin and Burke throw his weight around like he’s Lucius is definitely him walking the walk in order to maybe force a feeling upon himself that he can do this, or is his own man. It’s very interesting. So one final thing as we wrap up our chapter discussion, but that whole scene in Borgin and Burke happens, and the trio is listening with Extendable Ears. They quick get out of the way, and then after Draco exits, Hermione goes in and makes a complete bungle of any kind of reconnaissance that she was going to do. Guys, I just… we’ve all read this. What was Hermione thinking?
Julian: She wasn’t.
Micah: No.
Eric: Is she being a Gryffindor right now? Because this is very Gryffindor-y, right? Maybe putting yourself in the lion’s den?
Julian: Oh, yeah. And just like… I mean, this is probably the most Gryffindor we see her in a minute, because she just dives right in. And she’s like, “We’ll just figure it out. I’ll figure it out on the fly.” And I’m like, “You don’t have the social skills for this, girl.”
[Eric laughs]
Micah: You don’t have the street smarts.
Julian: You don’t have the street smarts to figure out… you have no idea… this is Hermione’s first time in Knockturn Alley. You’ve never been to Borgin and Burkes. You have no sense of any of the things… and for most of your time, you’ve been really riding hard on girls who act the way that you’re trying to act, and that’s why you don’t know how to do it. Because let me tell you something: You want to know who could have pulled this off? Lavender Brown. Lavender Brown could have gone into that shop and she’d have nailed the girlfriend, like, “Oh, I just want to pick up…” She could have nailed it. And it would have been annoying, but it would have been much more convincing than whatever secret agent Hermione double-O zero showed up trying to do.
[Micah laughs]
Eric: That’s an interesting take. The double-O… yeah, I won’t even say what I was going to say. I thought you were going to say Fleur Delacour could have handled this, because I think she also…
Julian: Oh, yeah, yeah. She would have just turned on a little bit of that Veela, and boom.
Eric: Yeah. No, it’s admirable, though, right? I mean, Hermione… so they were originally kind of hesitant to buy into what Harry was saying, that we have to follow Malfoy, but now Hermione, I guess, has seen enough that she’s convinced that he was up to something, or that she does need… can play a role here to help the cause.
Julian: Yeah, and I think… I mean, I get why she did it; I just think what’s clear is it’s like, “Okay, Hermione, your strengths are when things are planned out, but when things are off the cuff, you’re no improv star, girl, and that’s okay. You’re not a yes-and girly, and that’s fine. We just need to play to our strengths in this way.” And I think she’s doing the best she can with what she’s got, trying to get information, but it… and the other thing I think she’s also underestimating is how many people go into Borgin and Burkes and pull antics like this. He’s probably very used to people going in and being very odd and strange and trying to just figure things out. And I’m like, “You also seem like an undercover cop.”
[Eric and Micah laugh]
Eric: Right.
Julian: You’re acting in a way that is… you seem like… it definitely feels like you’re an op and you’ve got… and in a place like Knockturn Alley, in those times where the Ministry is really cutting down and coming at people, you can’t go in there just being weird.
Micah: That’s a great point.
Julian: It just doesn’t… everyone’s going to be on edge.
Micah: Yeah, Agent Granger she is not.
Julian: No, no.
Eric: There you go. There’s the chapter… there’s the name of the title of the episode. “Agent Granger.”
Odds & Ends
Eric: All right, well, to wrap things up here, we have our odds and ends, and I just want to draw attention to the first place in the books we ever meet Draco Malfoy. It happens to be in Madam Malkin’s, and this was not something that was adapted in the film; I would have forgotten all about it if not for the audiobook that I was recently going through. But Madam Malkin’s in year one… Draco lays it out on the line. We see how racist he is, we see how uncomfortable, how privileged, and even the voice is described as being bored, how above it all he is, and Harry takes an immediate disliking to him. But Malfoy inadvertently leaves all of his unattractive cards right there on the table for Harry to see, and it has no small effect on Harry’s entire opinion of Malfoy, even way back when. And so to see that mirrored here, where Malfoy is, again, the worst he’s ever been, or straight-up just so clearly an offensive person here in Madam Malkin’s, is a wild kind of connection that I greatly enjoyed.
Julian: I love that scene in the first book, though…
Eric: So good.
Julian: … because I always am like, “You…” Draco has never met anyone who wasn’t pure-blood, and it shows up because his immediate impression is, “Oh, well, if you say that both your parents are magical, there’s no other world in which that’s anything other than pure-blood, so of course I’m going to be outrageously prejudicial, because you are too, right? Because we’re the same, because who else goes to Diagon Alley?” He’s so unaware and ignorant of the world outside of the pure-blood space he finds himself, and I love it because I’m like, this is what kids who come from very cloistered backgrounds do. They don’t know, especially if you… I mean, Harry is in the same place as him. They’re both in Madam Malkin’s. He asked Harry if his parents are a witch and a wizard, and Harry has no conception of what he’s actually asking, and so he’s like, “Yeah, sure,” and Draco is like, “Great, we’re the same, so let’s be racist together.”
[Eric and Micah laugh]
Julian: And I think it’s so telling. And then to then – to your point, Eric – come back to this moment, this same spot, and Draco is doubled down, ten toes down, full chest like, “I’m still the same person,” but without the air of superiority that he has in that. Even when he was 11 years old, he’s kind of like, “Yeah, my dad says I guess we have to let other people in, but isn’t that dumb?”
[Eric laughs]
Julian: And there’s a way that he… but now he’s like, “Remember that time that your parents couldn’t do magic, Hermione? Ooh, that’s dumb.” It’s a very different air that he has.
Eric: Amazing.
Micah: Yeah. Just a couple of other odds and ends: I know earlier on we were talking about Karkaroff, but in that same conversation, we did also get a mention of Regulus Black. It’s the second time in this book we’ve heard his name, so definitely should keep a Regulus count going, maybe, in the background and see how many times he gets mentioned before the truth gets revealed.
Eric: Would that be Regulus Arcturus Black, by chance?
Micah: It might be.
Eric: Interesting.
Micah: It’s a common name.
Eric: I wish his middle name got name-dropped in this book.
Micah: No, that would be too easy.
Julian: It’s true.
Micah: And then we were joking, actually, about this before, with Moaning Myrtle, but Harry’s bathroom privileges have been upgraded. He is now Quidditch captain…
Eric: Oh, yes! [laughs]
Micah: … which he finds out in this book, which gives him greater bathroom permission to go into the prefects’ bathroom.
Julian: Thank God.
Eric: Finally, a bathroom he can use.
Julian: With a Jacuzzi swimming pool tub. Someone brought up this… I think one of my students brought it up, and then someone else brought it up on Instagram about the question of like, so it’s a coed bathroom, and we’re just meant to believe that these kids are just not having weird pool parties in the bathroom? I’m like, “They absolutely are.”
Micah: With Moaning Myrtle. [laughs]
Eric: This reminds me of the…
Julian: Yeah, Moaning Myrtle is there whether she’s invited or not.
Micah: Don’t call her Moaning for nothing.
[Julian laughs]
Eric: The one day I visited the Louvre, I was 16…
Micah: Where is this going? [laughs]
Julian: Recently? Recently, Eric? Wait a minute, wait a second…
Eric: No, no, but we went in and out… the Louvre is famous for, if you spend 30 seconds in front of every piece in there, you could be there for two decades or more. It’s a lifetime. But no, we did the Mona Lisa, the Venus de Milo, and the other thing – the third thing that you’re supposed to see there – and then left because it was our only possible pool day to spend back at the hotel. And so we had no appreciation for culture, and we were just dumb, stupid kids.
Micah: Wow.
Eric: I forget where exactly I was going with that, but it was a fun memory. So pool parties, definitely on the table now for Harry Potter.
Julian: Oh, yeah.
Micah: You were connecting the threads. There you go.
Eric: Connecting the threads to my own life. Yes, I was not at the Louvre recently, that you will prove.
MVP of the Week
Eric: So let’s get on to MVP segment here. I had a quick question for you guys: What is – we talked about it briefly, but – the coolest Fred and George product that’s intro’d in this chapter?
[MVP of the Week music plays]
Eric: I did this last time we talked about it, but I’m going to give it to the hangman. “Spell it or he’ll swing.” That is my absolute favorite magical item ever mentioned in the books.
Micah: There are a lot of good ones to pick from. I chose the Decoy Detonators.
Eric: Good one.
Micah: I’m curious to see what they get up to with that.
Julian: I’m weirdly obsessed with the Peruvian Instant Darkness Powder. I don’t know why, I don’t know what it is, I don’t know… but every time, I’m like, “Yeah, that’s absolutely… you need that.”
Eric: It seems almost calming, or… right? Instant darkness? Ooh, sensory deprivation. Ooh, that would be peaceful.
Julian: Yeah, how long does that last?
[Eric and Julian laugh]
Eric: “Can I get seven?”
Julian: [laughs] Exactly.
Eric: No, that’s… I’m so glad, then, in your case, Julian, that we get to see that in action later. Not in the best moment, but…
Julian: No, yeah, exactly. I love… maybe that’s why I like it, because I’m very nosy, and I would absolutely use it in the same way that Harry does, but I would just do it better than Harry, because Harry is a bull in a China shop.
Eric: Doesn’t Draco use it?
Julian: No, Harry does.
Eric: Harry does, okay.
Julian: He uses it so he can climb on top of the thing in the train, and so he uses that and then he tries… but when he gets up, he kicks a thing, and that’s how Draco spots him.
Eric: Draco spots… oh, there’s so much good stuff between Harry and Draco coming in this book.
Julian: Oh, absolutely. 1,000%, yeah. I always say that it’s Harry’s bi awakening, but that’s a different story for a different day.
Eric: [laughs] I really have to say, just in general, Julian, closing out the chapter, I’m so grateful for just this deeper insight into Draco going into the rest of this book that we’re just starting out. You guys just finished it.
Julian: We just finished it, and we spent all the class on Tuesday talking about Draco, and my students… I had some students who were very defensive of Draco, which is… every semester is different. Some semesters… I had one semester where the girlies were just in love with him, and he could do no wrong, but more often than not, they are not the biggest sympathizers. But this was probably one of the first semesters where I had to come to Draco’s defense in a lot of ways, which I never do, but I’m a contrarian, and so if my students are like, “He’s the worst,” I’m like, “Or is he the best?”
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: No, he’s kind of toxic, and I can see why nobody would like him.
Julian: Yeah, no, no. For sure.
Eric: But yeah, no, I think that’s the best thing we hear from teachers, too, is you set the questions up to have no one answer.
Julian: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I think going in a little bit… and I think just re-listening to this chapter, and I was like, “Oh, God, this kid, he’s so insecure right now.” He doesn’t know how to operate when he doesn’t have his dad there to basically be his muscle, and now he has to be the muscle, and he’s never lifted a weight in his life.
Eric: [laughs] And that’s the first step to empathy, too, is trying to understand what’s going on inside. Absolutely nuts.
Lynx Line
Eric: Speaking of having no one answer, we now move on to our Lynx Line segment, where each week on Patreon we ask a question of our Slug Club members. And this week’s question on the Lynx Line was: What is really on Malfoy’s forearm that he shows to Borgin? Because he shows him something, Borgin looks terrified, and we don’t see what it is. We know what it is from reading the books, but we’re going to have some fun here. Micah, thank you so much for, by the way, coming up with this. I was a little short on Lynx Line questions, and Micah was like, “Let’s ask what’s on the forearm.” So I was like, “Okay, that’s great, that’s great.”
Micah: Well, the second part to that question was “Wrong answers only,” but I don’t see that in here.
[Julian and Micah laugh]
Eric: Okay, okay. Well, I thought it was assumed, because if we get people that have read the book going, “It’s the Dark Mark!” [laughs] I have 15 answers, and none of them are, “It’s the Dark Mark!” So everyone understood the assignment, even without my prompting.
Micah: First up is Rachel S., who says, “A tattooed QR code leading to his Harry Potter fan blog.”
Eric: [laughs] Yeah, that’s delightful. Robert P. says, “A QR code -“ wow “- for the YouTube link to ‘A Very Potter Musical’ by Team StarKid productions.”
Julian: [laughs] I’m sure he’d be singing all the songs. Justin S. writes, “Nitwit. Blubber. Oddment. Tweak.”
Eric: Oooh.
Micah: So a secret Dumbledore fan at heart.
Eric: I love that.
Micah: Or a Hogwarts fan at heart. Kim says, “A barcode for free Firewhisky at the Three Broomsticks.”
[Eric laughs]
Julian: I’ll take that.
Eric: “Scan this tattoo.” Yeah, we know that Draco is friendly with the… well, he hangs out at the Three Broomsticks sometimes. Zach says, “A tattoo that says, ‘I joined the Death Eater and all I got was a cheap tattoo.'”
[Julian and Micah laugh]
Eric: Okay, that is kind of the right answer.
Julian: Yes. [laughs] Tom wrote, “A tattoo of a Pygmy Puff.” Because he’s a softy at heart, everybody.
Eric: He did it first.
Micah: Julie Ann says, “A tattoo saying ‘My father will hear about this’ that he can just flash at will instead of having to verbalize it anymore.”
Julian: Useful.
Eric: “Just point to my forearm.” I love it. That would intimidate Borgin. Betty.B-Gryffindor – love that username – “A tattoo that says, ‘My other father will hear about this,’ with Voldy’s face behind it.”
[Julian and Micah laugh]
Eric: Love that one.
Julian: That’s amazing. Sonia wrote, “‘Live, Laugh, Love’ in swirly font with a feather.” You gotta have a feather.
Eric: Unexpected. Unexpected. Such a… oh.
Julian: You didn’t think to see that.
Eric: Yeah, I love it.
Micah: Sarah M. – moving away from QR codes and tattoos – says, “His WWVD (What Would Voldy Do?) bracelet.”
[Julian laughs]
Eric: Oh, man. And Emily M. says, “An armful of Swiftie-style friendship bracelets that Draco offers to barter.”
Julian: Incredible.
Eric: And then she adds, “He’s definitely in his Reputation era at this point in the series.”
Julian: That feels right.
Micah: The Lynx Line is a great way to have your voice heard on the show, whether or not you’re listening live. We ask a new question every week. You can become a member of our community today by going to Patreon.com/MuggleCast, and receiving this and many more benefits, like bonus MuggleCast. And if you have feedback about today’s discussion, you can contact us by emailing or sending a voice memo recorded on your phone to MuggleCast@gmail.com. And next week, Chapter by Chapter continues with Half-Blood Prince Chapter 7, “The Slug Club.” Wonder how that’s going to go with our Slug Club.
Eric: Ooh.
Micah: It’d be really interesting.
Eric: Slug-ception.
Micah: Visit MuggleCast.com for links to our social media, Patreon, transcripts, our favorite episodes, and lots more. And if you’re looking for more podcasting from the four of us, listen to our other shows, Millennial and What the Hype?!, for more pop culture and real world talk.
Quizzitch
Micah: And to wrap things up, it is now time for Quizzitch.
[Quizzitch music plays]
Eric: This week’s question – because we suffered from an excess of phlegm – is in what country do Flemish people largely reside? Where are they from? And the correct answer was Belgium! The Flemish are from Belgium, and an area that was formerly the Netherlands as well. So that’s very exciting. A whopping 60% of people who submitted the correct answer say they did not look it up. We actually just asked people. It’s an open book quiz if you want it, but if you know it without looking it up, great. This week’s winners were Accio Good Marks; An Excess… of Belgian Chocolate; Bort Voldemort, sort of; Draco’s Etsy Badge Shop; Dutch Hufflepuff; Gryffinpuff from Sweden; I play Fluffy’s harp; Ken; Ms. Cheeta 1987; Ned, Hi Diddly Ho; Ozzygig-Got a gig; Ron’s favorite spider; Shyam; Smiley Fries; Tangled yarn; The Belgian wizard that Ron told about winning the Daily Prophet Galleon Draw Grand Prize… that’s a deleted scene from Prisoner of Azkaban reference. The Jessly Hallows; and of course, our dear friend Tofu Tom. Here is next week’s Quizzitch question: Speaking of ice cream going out of business, the factory grounds of which famous ice cream company features a flavor graveyard with headstones commemorating each of its formerly retired ice cream flavors that just didn’t sell well enough? Submit your answer to us on the Quizzitch form located on the MuggleCast website; visit MuggleCast.com/Quizzitch. If you’re already on the site, maybe checking out transcripts, wanting to look at the previous episodes where Julian was on – because he’s always such a wonderful guest – those episodes, by the way, are…
Julian: 619 in 2023, and then 708 in June of 2025. That’s “Professor Trelawney’s Prediction” and “Snape’s Worst Memory,” respectively.
Eric: Thank you, Julian. Yes, whether you’re checking out those transcripts for 619 or 708, they’re both up there. And that’s it! Click on “Quizzitch” from the main nav to play our little fun game. Julian, thank you so very much for coming on for your third MuggleCast episode! You were amazing as always.
Julian: Oh, thank you so much for having me. This was a blast.
Eric: Oh, I love it so much.
Micah: And where can folks find you?
Eric: Yes!
Julian: Oh, you can find me, Critical Magic Theory, wherever you cast your pods, on TikTok at @ProfW, and on Instagram at @Prof.JW. Yeah, those are my places.
Micah: Well, as Eric said, it was awesome having you on.
Julian: Thank you.
Micah: Thanks for finally cohosting with me. It only took a couple of episodes to make it happen, but it was a lot of fun.
Julian: That’s it.
Eric: And I think this was the right time. This was kismet. It was the right time to come back.
Julian: [laughs] Yeah, absolutely.
Micah: All right, well, that does it for this week’s episode of MuggleCast. I’m Micah.
Eric: I’m Eric.
Julian: Oh, and I’m Julian.
Micah: [laughs] Yes, you are.
[Julian laughs]
Eric: Thank you, Professor.
Micah: Bye, everyone.
Eric and Julian: Bye.