Transcript for MuggleCast Episode #464, Dumbledore Gone Wild (OOTP 27, The Centaur and The Sneak)
Show Intro
[Show music plays]
Andrew Sims: Welcome to MuggleCast, your weekly ride into the wizarding world. I’m Andrew.
Eric Scull: I’m Eric.
Micah Tannenbaum: I’m Micah.
Laura Tee: And I’m Laura.
Andrew: We are recording on Saturday, May 2, a very solemn day in the world of Harry Potter. [tearfully] It’s the Battle of Hogwarts anniversary, and…
Eric: [singing] Happy birthday to Victoire Weasley.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Andrew: Did anybody know that was Victoire Weasley-Delacour’s birthday?
Eric: I don’t remember that being the case.
Laura: It was new knowledge for me.
Micah: When was that revealed? Was that also tweeted this morning?
Andrew: That was the other day, yeah. So between 2015 and 2018, J.K. Rowling, as Harry Potter fans probably remember, she would take to Twitter on the anniversary of the Battle of Hogwarts and apologize for killing one Harry Potter character per year. In 2015 she apologized for Fred; in 2016, Lupin; in 2017, Snape; and in 2018, Dobby. She disappeared from Twitter last year, so there was no apology last year, but now she’s back, as we’ve been speaking about, and we wondered if she would apologize for a character death this year. I logged on to the MuggleCast Twitter account and I tweeted her on April 30, “Hey…” I tried to be really friendly about it.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: I said, “Hey, friendly reminder that the anniversary of the Battle of Hogwarts is coming up,” wink emoji. I didn’t think she would actually reply. Well, scrolling through Twitter on May 1, and look at this: J.K. Rowling replied to our tweet!
Laura: Yay!
Micah: Not directly, though.
Andrew: Directly!
Micah: Oh, she did?
Andrew and Laura: Yeah.
Eric: It was a direct quote tweet, right?
Andrew: Yes, she quoted the tweet.
Micah: Oh, I thought you were just embellishing.
Andrew: No, no.
Micah: But please go ahead.
Andrew: Okay, yeah. Wow.
Micah: So when is she coming on the show?
Andrew: So you don’t follow her on Twitter anymore? I thought you did.
Micah: No, I did. I got the alert this morning that she had tweeted when I woke up…
Andrew: Okay.
Micah: … so I went to read the tweet, but I didn’t know it was in response to ours, and I also saw yours this morning as well.
Andrew: Okay, so I tried to remind her, “Hey, Battle of Hogwarts anniversary is coming up. Don’t forget; you have to issue your apology.” I didn’t say that part, but I just wanted to jog her memory. So she replied to our tweet, “Also Victoire Weasley-née-Delacour’s birthday, but that gets overshadowed. I feel bad for her. The wizarding equivalent of being born on Christmas Day and christened Holly.”
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Laura: Poor thing.
Micah: Whatever that means.
Laura: Isn’t it also [in a French accent] “Victoire”?
Andrew: Victoire Weasley…
Laura: I don’t speak French, but I feel like that might be…
Andrew: Laura, we’ve been doing this for 15 years. You know I’m not good at pronouncing things.
[Laura laughs]
Micah: [in a southern accent] “Victoire.”
Andrew: You guys can just cut in and issue your corrections. So anyway, this tweet actually caused a little bit of controversy because people are saying that she placed the “née” wrong.
Eric: Yeah, because it’s usually used to denote maiden names, right? But it’s Bill and Fleur’s daughter, so she doesn’t… I mean, her maiden name would presumably be… if Bill and Fleur married, but Fleur didn’t take his last name and she’s Victoire Delacour-Weasley, maybe then that could be…?
Micah: Her maiden name would be “Weasley,” not “Delacour.” Is that what you’re trying to say?
Eric: Yeah, I think J.K. Rowling was just trying to specify that it was Bill and Fleur’s kid.
Andrew: Right, yeah.
Micah: Stop giving her a hard time. Everybody wants her to tweet, and then when she tweets, she gets crap for it.
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: That’s exactly right.
Andrew: This is why she left Twitter.
Eric: No, I saw that, and I saw it was becoming a thing, and I was like, “Oh, God. We’ve caused more controversy.”
Laura: You know what, though? I could definitely see Fleur going very progressive and being like, “No, you know what? I’m birthing this child, so she’s going to get my name.”
Andrew: [laughs] Right.
Eric: But then she has to marry a Weasley to become Weasley née Delacour.
Laura: Maybe they hyphenated.
Eric: Oh, maybe.
Micah: No, but I think what Laura is saying is what if when they married, Bill took Fleur’s last name, then her last name would, in fact – the child’s – would be Delacour.
Andrew: So this wasn’t the most exciting reply from J.K. Rowling, I must say; however, we are grateful that she acknowledged MuggleCast, and for a couple of minutes on the morning of May 1, she was thinking about MuggleCast, so that’s nice. Let’s get this one printed and framed in all of our homes.
Micah: Yeah, there you go. When is she on the show? Did she say? Did she get back to you on that?
Andrew: [laughs] I didn’t want to be that guy following up to her response, “Hey, can you come on the show?”
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: That’s just annoying. We’ll try in a few months.
Eric: I think she has a good… this was a witty reply. If this had been all that we had gotten this year, I would have been pretty happy with it, because she makes a good point. There’s all these people who have birthdays close to Christmas and it just… their birthday is overlooked because…
Andrew: They get overshadowed, yeah.
Eric: Or all the people born on 9/11. Don’t you know somebody born on 9/11?
Andrew: I was just going to say… [laughs] “Do I know somebody?” Former MuggleCast host Matt was born on 9/11.
Eric: There you go.
Andrew: Before the actual 9/11, of course. But yeah, so his birthday is always overshadowed by this terrible day in American history.
Eric: Right.
Andrew: So like I said, we are recording on May 2. We woke up to some tweets from J.K. Rowling; she did not apologize for a new character death, but she had a good alternate response. She said, “Today is the 22nd anniversary of the Battle of Hogwarts, but I’m going to be honest and say that it feels inappropriate to talk about fictional deaths today. Too many people are losing loved ones in the real world. So on this anniversary of a great wizarding victory, I’m thinking of the people who are out there doing their jobs to protect us and our way of life. I have three key workers in my immediate family, and like all such relatives, I’m torn between pride and anxiety. As ever in a crisis of this sort, the poorest and most vulnerable are hit hardest, so in honor of the Battle of Hogwarts, I’ll be making a donation of 1 million pounds, half of which will go to crisis.org.uk, who are helping the homeless during the pandemic, and half of which will go to refuge.org.uk, because we know that domestic abuse has, sadly, increased hugely during the lockdown.” So very good response from J.K. Rowling.
Eric: Yeah, super, super classy and extremely just, I think, appropriate. Fitting, right? Yeah, this is going to help a lot of people.
Andrew: Yeah, it’s nice to see that she… it sounds like if it weren’t for the pandemic, she may have actually done another one of these character apologies, which nobody should take seriously. It’s just a fun thing; it’s cathartic to see from J.K. Rowling if you’re really missing the character that she is apologizing for killing. But yeah, I think this was a really good response, so good on you, Jo.
Micah: Yeah, I thought so. It’s really well done on her part to make that donation. And I’m sure she’s made other donations, probably that we don’t even know about, with everything that’s been going on.
Andrew: Absolutely.
Micah: But as it relates to apologizing for character deaths, why does she limit herself to the Battle of Hogwarts? When’s the Cedric apology coming?
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: Well, she doesn’t, because she apologized for Dobby.
Eric: Right.
Andrew: Dobby didn’t die in the battle.
Micah: Oh, true.
Andrew: Nor did Snape. Yeah, she just does the apology on the anniversary of the Battle of Hogwarts. So who do you want her to apologize for?
Micah: I was just throwing out Cedric because all those characters that are listed there all died in Deathly Hallows. I’m thinking more of Goblet of Fire…
Andrew: Right.
Micah: … or Order of the Phoenix, given what happens.
Laura: Well, he does get to come back kind of, right?
[Eric laughs]
Micah: That is true.
Eric: He lives on forever in Cursed Child.
Micah: And I know, Eric, come on. What are you going to do the day she apologizes for Sirius Black?
Eric: I will weep into a giant pillow.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: Or maybe she just doesn’t feel bad about Sirius, but she does about these other characters.
Eric: I know!
Andrew: Ooh, shots fired.
Eric: I know. That’s totally… that’s the thing; this might undercut… and we’re going to talk about this in a bonus MuggleCast, actually, that we record after this episode, but should she apologize? All the things we touched on here a little bit more. And yeah, it’s her book, her story. She can choose to feel bad for what she did or not.
Micah: What about Dumbledore? I mean, come on. Anyway… speaking, though, Andrew, of tweeting at J.K. Rowling, I had a less successful attempt, or maybe she did join us last weekend and we just don’t know it…
Andrew: Oh!
Micah: … for Quizzitch Live: The Prisoner of Knowledge. We did our third installment of Quizzitch Live, and it was a lot of fun, but I did tweet at her that she should join us. I would be interested to see what username she would take, because in the past, I know she’s talked about in interviews about how she would go into forums to read theories under fake names, and she would actually…
Andrew: The MuggleNet chatroom.
Micah: Yeah, she would propose things I would presume that were true, and she would laugh at how people would respond to them because they thought that it was fake.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Micah: So I thought it was a good opportunity. I mean, I’m sure she wasn’t doing anything. When did we do that? 11:00 a.m. Eastern on last Sunday?
Andrew: Yeah, we purposely did it so people in the UK could do it during their daytime.
Micah: Yeah, so she could join.
Andrew: Yeah, right. Maybe she was LeslieSucksGoZach, who placed first.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Micah: Maybe.
Eric: She knew Sirius Black’s vault number.
Andrew: Congratulations to Chloe, Margo, LeslieSucksGoZach, Stacy, Danny, and Melissa for winning the top prizes. Actually, Micah, I think you’re onto something here, because I did email all of these winners, and the prize we were giving away was an edition of a Harry Potter book that you don’t have, and one of these people replied, “Oh, don’t worry, I have every edition ever; I am the author.”
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Andrew: So now I’m putting the pieces together.
Micah: And was their address in Edinburgh?
Andrew: [laughs] Well, she didn’t have to give me the address, because she didn’t need her prize.
[Eric laughs]
Micah: That’s funny. You see…
Andrew: That would be crazy, wouldn’t it? I would pass out.
Micah: But I really think these trivia games that we get to do every couple of weeks are just so much fun, and even coming up with the questions. I know Eric did a great job last week. Him and I are working on the fourth installment, which I think, fair to say…
Andrew: What’s the theme?
Micah: The theme is going to be Quizzitch Live: The Goblet of Popcorn.
Andrew: Ooh.
[Laura laughs]
Micah: Use your mind and make some connections there to figure out what exactly the trivia is going to be about.
Andrew: [laughs] Use your mind. Control your mind. All right, so yeah, that’ll be in the weeks ahead, sometime later this month. Also, we have big news today: We have been teasing a new physical gift being sent out to patrons this year, and we have now announced it over on Patreon, and we will be announcing it here now. This year’s physical gift going out to all Dumbledore’s Army patrons and above is the MuggleCast 15th anniversary T-shirt!
Eric: Wow.
Andrew: It features a new MuggleCast crest, which I guess we can call a MuggleCrest?
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: I accidentally typed “MuggleCrest” instead of “MuggleCast” when I was putting together these notes. I was like, “Hmm, why didn’t we think about that sooner?”
[screaming goat sound]
Andrew: Wow, even the goat is excited. So anyway, we created a new MuggleCast crest for our 15th anniversary. The shirt also has a small graphic on the shoulder with the year of our birth, 2005. The shirt is available in two colors, blue and beige, and available in men’s and women’s cuts. It is a breathable shirt with a nice fit, and it’s tagless, but “MuggleCast” is imprinted inside the shirt where the tag normally is.
Eric: Nice.
Andrew: And that just makes it legit AF. So patrons who are at the Dumbledore’s Army level or above can fill out the order form right now; shirts will start going out, I think, by June. And then, if you aren’t a patron, it is not too late to get the MuggleCast T-shirt! Just become a patron before June 30, and then once you are a patron for three months, we will send you the T-shirt. And I can’t wait to start getting these shirts into everybody’s hands. And I really want everybody to take pictures of themselves wearing these shirts, and we’ll be featuring them on social media. So the MuggleCast 15th anniversary T-shirt, available now for patrons who pledge $5 or more per month. We love doing a physical gift every year because we know that you’re putting up your hard-earned money for us, so we want to invest that money back in you. So check it out!
Micah: Yeah, and I think also just worth touching on, if you become a member of Dumbledore’s Army or higher, which is the Slug Club, you get a ton of other great benefits, so it’s not just the physical gift that we’re talking about here. It’s bonus MuggleCast; it’s access to the show, the document, the live recordings; if you’re a Slug Club member, you can cohost with us. So there’s a ton of great benefits that come along with it, not just the physical gift itself, although this is awesome. When do I get mine?
Andrew: [laughs] We will get you a shirt soon, once we start printing more. We did get samples, and Eric and I have enjoyed them so far, but we will get them…
Micah: Oh, so Laura and I know where we stand.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Andrew: Yeah, you stand not in Chicago where I can’t easily hand you one.
[Everyone laughs]
Micah: So which one of you tried the women’s cut, then?
Andrew: [laughs] That was Eric’s girlfriend.
Micah: Ahh.
Chapter by Chapter: Seven-Word Summary
Andrew: It’s time now for Chapter by Chapter, and this week we are discussing Order of the Phoenix Chapter 27, “The Centaur and the Sneak.” And we’ll start with our Seven-Word Summary.
Micah: Hogwarts…
[Seven-Word Summary music plays]
Andrew: … changes…
Eric: … direction…
Laura: … due…
Micah: … to…
Andrew: … Dumbledore’s…
Eric: … departure.
Andrew: Okay, nice.
Laura: Woo!
Andrew: Thank you for not…
Micah: That deserves an Exceeds Expectations, in my book.
Laura: I agree.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Chapter by Chapter: Main Discussion
Micah: All right, well, we’re all sitting here recording on a Saturday morning. Hopefully everybody’s had breakfast or at least some coffee…
Andrew: I have.
Micah: … because that is where we’re going to start, in the Great Hall a few days after the sacking of Trelawney and then the quick save by Dumbledore. And there’s some conversation going on about the new, cool, hip professor that has been hired.
[Eric laughs]
Micah: And it actually leads to a bit of an awkward conversation between Parvati and Hermione, particularly because Parvati is teasing Hermione about having quit Divination, and Hermione’s response comes across as being a bit insensitive. Wanted to get all of your thoughts on this, because I don’t think we’ve ever really seen Hermione describe another person or another creature – especially given all of her work with SPEW – in the way that she describes Firenze.
Eric: Yeah, she calls him a horse. She says, “I’m not interested.” [laughs] I’m like, “Whoa, okay. Just… whoa.”
Laura: I think also, Hermione doesn’t have very much patience for Parvati and Lavender because, mind you, the two of them were Professor Trelawney’s most dedicated students. They took her the most seriously; Hermione thought that it was all rubbish. And also, if I recall correctly, Parvati and Lavender really bought into the Rita Skeeter narrative in Goblet of Fire…
Eric: Ohh.
Laura: … and so I think Hermione is just trying to shut them down.
Eric: Yeah, but she does so by saying, “I’ve never really liked horses,” and I’m thinking… again, to Andrew’s point, she works with house-elves. She’s all about seeing these other beings and magical creatures as equals, worthy of our respect, and that’s undercut by just her blatant… even Lavender says, “He’s not a horse, he’s a centaur!” And she says, “Either way, he’s still got four legs.” I know that Hermione’s middle name and Umbridge’s middle name are similar – one is Jean, one is Jane – but that’s way too close to Umbridge for me on Hermione’s part.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: Add it to the Umbridge Suck count.
[Eric laughs]
Micah: Do you think this could just be a moment for Hermione, though?
Andrew: Right.
Laura: Yes.
Micah: I mean, we all have them where we say things that maybe we don’t think through exactly what it is that we’re saying, and maybe at 15 she doesn’t think that what she’s saying is all that offensive. But I do think, given all of her work with SPEW and what she’s trying to do for house-elves, that it does come across as a bit discriminatory and insensitive that she is talking about the centaurs in this way, particularly Firenze. I also thought maybe she’s just a bit distracted because she’s reading the Daily Prophet, and you know that she’s always trying to find out what the latest news is, and maybe she just sees this as a distraction, as an annoyance. She doesn’t want to be bothered with Parvati. And to the point raised earlier, she’s also getting needled a bit about the fact that she gave up this class. I also just think she doesn’t think very highly of Divination to begin with, so I wonder if it’s more just an indictment on Divination than it is on Firenze. But again, she’s minimizing Divination by saying, “Oh, there’s a horse teaching it.”
Laura: Yeah. Well, also, the reason Parvati and Lavender are so excited is that Firenze is very handsome, right?
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Laura: They’re curling their eyelashes with their wands before the class, and Hermione is basically just like, “Okay, well, if you’re into horses, I guess that’s cool.”
[Micah laughs]
Laura: So I think she’s trying to slam them down a little, or shut them down a little bit. Still, though, this isn’t a great comment, but who among us has not said something off color and then later been like, “Oh, crap”?
Andrew: In the wise words of Miley Cyrus, “Everybody has those days,” and this is Hermione’s day.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Eric: But I’m glad that we can come together, though, as adults and be like, “Huh, that was problematic,” because I’m sure that in the times I’ve read this chapter before, I’ve never really thought, “Oh, this is problematic” before.
Micah: Yeah. One other piece of information that we get from Lavender and Parvati is we learn that Trelawney has mentioned still wanting to leave the castle. She doesn’t want to be in the same place as Umbridge, given everything that’s happened; I’m sure she also feels a bit embarrassed, too, given that this happened in front of most of the school. But we all know that it’s actually really, really important, with everything that’s going on right now, that she stay at Hogwarts.
Eric: I just feel like Dumbledore isn’t really maybe forthcoming about the reasons why it’s imperative that she stay.
Andrew: I think – Micah, you mentioned, and I agree with this – Trelawney is just feeling very embarrassed and humiliated right now. She was humiliated in front of half the school right at the entrance to Hogwarts, and I don’t think I would want to show my face around other students right now. And unless Trelawney just locks herself in her little Hogwarts apartment, she’s going to be facing some embarrassment as she walks around the castle. I think she would also be afraid of running into Umbridge again and that awkward conversation.
Eric: Yeah, yeah. It just seems really reckless on Dumbledore’s part, not to point fingers, but for him not to impress upon her the need for her to stay, that she can still tell these students, “Oh, I’d really love to leave forever than stay here if she’s here, etc., etc.” Maybe she’s just venting, and it’s nice that she has this outlet in Parvati and Lavender. But yeah, I don’t know. It just seems like Dumbledore, once again, didn’t really convey to his closest subjects the real reasons that he has behind doing what he does.
Micah: And on top of that, he’s going to peace out at the end of this chapter.
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: Leaving Trelawney to fend for herself!
Micah: Exactly. And the rest of the school, for that matter. Eric, I’m going to let you take this next part, because you raise some really good points about how when we go into Divination, really, for the first time taught by Firenze, it’s a completely different experience from what we’ve seen throughout a lot of the Potter series up until this point.
Eric: Yeah, I really… on the latest reread of this chapter, I was so giddy, unnecessarily. It just randomly… I just couldn’t stop smiling while reading what they’ve done with this classroom 11 on the ground floor. So Harry and Ron are going to Divination; they’re going up the old staircase, and I think it’s Parvati that says, “How do you expect Firenze to climb that ladder? We’re down on the ground floor.” So they go to this classroom, and it’s been completely reworked. Harry knows it as one of these classrooms that they use sometimes, maybe occasionally, but not regularly, and it’s just a boring old classroom like we’re used to, except it’s not. They go in, and here’s the description from the book: “The classroom floor had become springily mossy and trees were growing out of it; their leafy branches fanned across the ceiling and windows, so that the room was full of slanting shafts of soft, dappled, green light. The students who had already arrived were sitting on the earthy floor with their backs resting against tree trunks or boulders, arms wrapped around their knees or folded tightly across their chests, looking rather nervous.” And then this place also has environmental controls. Firenze “swished his long palomino tail, raised his hand toward the leafy canopy overhead, then lowered it slowly, and as he did so, the light in the room dimmed, so that they now seemed to be sitting in a forest clearing by twilight, and stars emerged upon the ceiling. There were oohs and gasps, and Ron said audibly, ‘Blimey!'”
Laura: Ooh.
Eric: This is the kind of classroom that we always could have had throughout the years at Hogwarts, because it’s a magic school. This just really drove home to me… this is phenomenal and totally amazing and perfectly caters to the teacher, but we could have been, for years now, going to classrooms that were underwater; we could have… J.K. Rowling in this chapter really shakes up the variety of things.
Laura: Yeah, I mean, they go to the planetarium.
Eric: Yeah!
Andrew: Yeah, it’s very cool. I mean, it’s a very earthy classroom that sounds really interesting and peaceful to visit. It kind of reminds me of a Zen garden; it’s just missing a couple of waterfalls.
[Micah laughs]
Andrew: But yeah, it sounds good. I mean, are there bugs in there with all these rocks and trees?
Micah: No.
Eric: Oh.
Andrew: And can they eliminate bugs? Because I wouldn’t like that if there were bugs.
Micah: Not yet. It’s only the first use of the classroom, Andrew, so maybe over time there’ll be some additions.
Andrew: They’ll gather.
Micah: Yeah, exactly.
[Eric laughs]
Micah: But I thought for Firenze, this was really to make him feel comfortable and at home, because normally he’s in the Forbidden Forest.
Andrew: Yeah, for sure.
Micah: So it’s really a replica, in many ways, of his natural environment. And I thought it was a nice kind of break, too, from all the serious stuff that’s been going on in this book, in a way. Even though we don’t get a whole lot of this throughout the series, it kind of is a throwback to Sorcerer’s Stone when you’re first introduced to the school, and maybe you’re learning about the Transfiguration classroom or the Charms classroom or Herbology greenhouses for the first time. I’m sure that J.K. Rowling made them seem extremely magical to us as readers in our maybe early teens. I don’t know; I didn’t go back and look at the descriptions exactly, but this definitely stands out as far as classrooms go.
Eric: Yeah, that’s what I wanted to point out about when they filmed it, they chose to film Hogwarts at real live colleges, Christ Church College and Oxford and all of these historic British castles and things like that, so I think we got more of a generic stone classroom kind of feel.
Micah: I tend to think that classrooms are reflective of those who are teaching the subject matter – obviously, that’s the case year after year with Defense Against the Dark Arts – but even in other classrooms. I mean, Potions, right, is down in the dungeons. That’s to me very much like Snape, right?
Andrew: Yeah, it’s dark and sad, just like Snape.
[Eric laughs]
Micah: Yeah, exactly. There’s all these creatures in jars, and it’s very Snape, versus when Slughorn…
Andrew: Or you think about Trelawney’s classroom.
Micah: Yeah, Trelawney also. Yeah, it’s reflective of her personality, I think, and where she’s comfortable teaching.
Andrew: Right.
Micah: I was going to say, Slughorn is much different than Snape in terms of Potions, right? The whole experience for the students is much, much different. The location is different as well, I think, or am I making that up?
Eric: I think in the movie they move it up. It seems to have more natural light.
Micah: Do you think Ron and Harry FaceTimed Hermione? Be like, “Wish you were here.”
Andrew: “Look what you’re missing out on.”
[Eric laughs]
Micah: So Firenze has a big mark on his chest that’s pretty noticeable to the students, and he is very upfront with them about two things: One is how he got that mark, and he talks about the fact that he was banished from the rest of the herd. And we have a flashback again to Sorcerer’s Stone with him saving Harry from Quirrellmort way back in Book 1; Harry remembers this. But he also gives his personal feelings as it relates to human Divination, or at least Divination being taught by humans, and you get a really nice difference of opinion here.
Andrew: Yeah. This was interesting because I read this as Trelawney is the dime a dozen fortune teller who just jumps to conclusions, doesn’t think anything through, and I’m thinking about how people on Twitter are so quick to judge, just to make a joke or just to cancel somebody immediately. Meanwhile, the centaurs, they’re thinking about things longterm. They’re not jumping to conclusions. They’re saying, “What we see in the stars may suggest something, but we don’t know for sure.” Trelawney is just like, “I see this? Well, Harry is dead tomorrow.”
[Eric laughs]
Laura: Yeah, the centaurs are also thinking bigger picture. Trelawney is a good example of how human beings like to take everything and make it about themselves, and the centaurs are like, “Actually, human beings are not the center of the universe. Y’all aren’t that important, and here’s the bigger picture. Here’s the larger scope of what’s going to happen, and your minor trials and tribulations aren’t really something that we’re concerned with.”
Eric: I mean, I wasn’t expecting an indictment of the former teacher. I wasn’t expecting an indictment against all of humanity in this chapter. But Firenze delivers it with a real panache. He’s real style about it.
[Laura laughs]
Micah: I also thought that it was a pretty big indictment on Umbridge’s teaching style, too, because she’s very by the book, and “You need to follow what the Ministry says,” and I think the way Firenze teaches in this class, and the fact that he does offer up other options, or says straight out that what he’s offering doesn’t necessarily have to be the be-all end-all, I think, is a knock on her as well.
Eric: Yeah, I wonder if… I mean, Divination has always gotten a rap as being not a real class, but I really just wonder… because by the end of their lesson, they haven’t really figured any one thing out. Nobody makes a full and true prediction. Ron says, “He’s not definite about anything, is he?” and Firenze seems to be okay with that. What he seems to want to impress upon them is that no method of Divination is 100% accurate all the time, and they shouldn’t expect to really even be able to learn how to do it correctly in the two short months that they have left. I’m like, what kind of a class is that? That’s not standardized. You can’t test for that.
Andrew: I really liked that, though, because I thought it was a nice lesson about how there’s always more to learn.
Eric: Yes.
Andrew: And that Firenze and the centaurs on a whole, they’re not egotistical. They don’t think their way is the only way. I think they want to take everybody’s perspective into consideration.
Eric: Yeah, absolutely.
Laura: Yeah. It is so interesting that we get this because we get this very heavily implied to us in Sorcerer’s Stone in Chapter 15, when Harry, Hermione, and Draco are serving their detention in the Forbidden Forest, and they come across Ronan and Bane, I believe it is, and Hagrid is trying to have a conversation with the two of them, and they both just stand there looking up at the sky, going, “Mars is bright tonight.” And Hagrid is like, “Yeah, we’ve heard.”
[Eric and Micah laugh]
Laura: “Can we talk about something else? Have you seen what’s killing these unicorns?” And they’re very much not concerned with what’s killing the unicorns because, of course, they’re seeing the harbinger of war in the sky, and they’re like, “Okay, go focus on your little unicorn problem. There’s something bigger going on.”
[Eric laughs]
Laura: And Hagrid says, “Never try an’ get a straight answer out of a centaur. Ruddy star-gazers. Not interested in anythin’ closer’n the moon.”
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: And it’s so interesting to get the human perspective on that, right? Because he’s like, “I have an immediate problem right here, right now, that I need help with,” and they’re like, “Yeah, there’s a giant wizarding war coming; we don’t really care.”
[Everyone laughs]
Micah: But if they connected the dots, the unicorns to Voldemort to the war, maybe… that’s a perfect example of the fact that they’re not seeing necessarily the full picture. They may be seeing the bigger picture, but not the full picture, and I think that’s…
Eric: Not the forest through the trees?
Micah: Exactly. No pun intended.
Laura: I do wonder, though… I don’t know that they think it’s their place to try and prevent things from happening. I think they’re just seeing what’s going to happen, and they’re not trying to involve themselves or change outcomes.
Eric: Well, here’s where Firenze is just totally different than all the rest of the group: He does give straight answers, and he’s the one who tells Harry what’s going on with the unicorns in the forest. He specifically draws Harry to the conclusion of Voldemort being in the forest right as they speak in Book 1, so I think they are capable of being aware of the goings-on. Typically, they just don’t tend to concern themselves with human matters all the time, but Firenze is clearly of the opinion that the knowledge that the centaurs do possess, in limited quantities as it is, should be shared. He believes in a more worldly sharing of knowledge, kind of strategic, bettering everybody by bettering each other kind of world view.
Laura: Yeah, and I think hence why he ends up getting kicked out.
Eric: Right.
Laura: Because it very much seems like at least this particular community of centaurs are like, “Human problems are not really our problem.”
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: No.
Laura: “Let them hash it out amongst themselves; we’re just going to chill back here in the forest… look at the sky…”
Micah: Right.
Andrew: Are centaurs the hippies of the wizarding world? That’s the impression I’m getting from this discussion.
Eric: [laughs] I don’t know.
Andrew: “Hey, man, it’s about the journey. One world, man.”
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Eric: Maybe Firenze.
Laura: Maybe we can ask J.K. Rowling. Go on Twitter.
Andrew: Is that our tweet to her this week?
Laura and Micah: Yes.
Eric: I’m glad you brought… I mean, I think Firenze, for his qualities, is a really good teacher. He seems completely willing to even talk about his own banishment. He just straightforward answers the questions, flat-out calls out Trelawney and what’s come before, and then does his own thing. I just find him to be a very genuine kind of teacher, the way Lupin was a very genuine kind of person.
Micah: Definitely. And there’s also a really cute moment, speaking of “Mars is bright tonight.” When Harry is looking up at the ceiling, there is a very quick mention of Mars winking back at him.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Eric: “Ready for what’s coming? Wizarding war, here we go! Wink!”
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Amazing.
Micah: So a really good first lesson, but Firenze actually ends up holding Harry back after class. What a shock. We also didn’t mention that a lot of people were impressed with the fact early on in this class that Harry has a rapport with Firenze.
Andrew: Yeah, that’s pretty cool.
Micah: They’re boys. They go way back.
Andrew: [laughs] Way back.
Eric: Yeah, way back. As far back as you can go.
Micah: But he tells him that Hagrid should basically abandon what it is that he is working on right now, what he’s doing, and it’s very cryptic; there’s no specific information. But there’s clearly a very solid relationship between Hagrid and Firenze, and I’m wondering, was it Hagrid that saved him from the herd? Was it Dumbledore? What’s the great relationship here that exists between the two of them? Do we know?
Eric: Well, Firenze states… yes, yeah. I read ahead, and in the… I think in the next chapter, in one of them, Hagrid does say that he pulled Firenze away and administered the right medicine.
Andrew: We need to start reading ahead because half the time the answers are in literally just the next chapter. [laughs]
Eric and Micah: Yeah.
Eric: So Hagrid did save him on this particular occasion. But I think in general, the way Firenze says in this chapter, “I’ve always respected Hagrid for his appreciation of all the life in the forest,” and I think that’s it. Nail on the head right there. Hagrid is a kind soul who appreciates life, unlike the vast majority of humans that these centaurs have convinced themselves exist and often traipse into the forest. And so Hagrid is different. Firenze is… yeah, they have a respect.
Micah: Totally. And so Harry tries to relay this information during Care of Magical Creatures. He has a extremely difficult time doing so.
Andrew: Because of Umbridge.
Micah: Not much more to say there. But once the two of them finally are able to connect, Hagrid just ignores Harry. Basically says, “Nah, I’m gonna do what I want to do. Thanks, but no thanks.”
Eric: [laughs] You’ve got to love Hagrid. “Ahh, centaurs are a bit wacky.”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: “I don’t listen to those hippies.”
[Eric laughs]
Micah: But Harry also has no context to what he’s asking Hagrid either, so it’s not really easy for him to make an argument for him to just stop whatever it is that he’s doing. And Hagrid is pretty thick-headed, so I don’t really see him changing his mind, unless Dumbledore tells him straight up.
Andrew: This is actually more evidence that centaurs are hippies, because no non-hippies listen to hippies.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Laura: Andrew speaks from experience as a non-hippie.
Andrew: This is my theory that I’m bringing up all episode. This is my “Hermione wants to see somebody die.” Sorry, go ahead.
Micah: No, I just feel bad for Harry because he’s literally trying for weeks to get this information to Hagrid, and then when he finally does it, Hagrid is just like… [grunts]
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: Just like that.
Laura: “Damn hippies.”
Micah: [laughs] And the reason why it’s so challenging is because Umbridge is there. And I know we talked about this on other episodes, but this is another example of Umbridge just stifling other teachers’ ability to do their jobs because of her physical presence. I know, Laura, you’ve talked about this in the past, and just how having the presence of an evaluator there, if they’re not doing it their job the right way, can be extremely disruptive.
Laura: Yeah, completely throws off the entire dynamic of the classroom.
Eric: But I mean, speaking of observers like Firenze, this comment coming from Firenze to Hagrid, “Your attempt is not working; he would do best to stop,” is the perfect, most cutting opinion. I think Hagrid knows immediately that Firenze is right; he’s just too stubborn to admit it. But the idea that an outsider, right – the centaurs, who usually keep to themselves – that all this stuff with Grawp that we don’t know yet, but that Hagrid is doing with Grawp, for Firenze to say “It isn’t working” means that these homebodies who keep to themselves, these hippies, have taken enough notice to be like, “You’ve got to… no, dude, of all the things that you do in this forest… no, this is just one step too far. We’re going to say something.”
Micah: I also just think it’s Firenze trying to return a favor for what Hagrid has done for him in saving him and healing him, and this is just his way of trying to be nice to somebody who has been nice to him, trying to offer him some advice. But we know, again, Hagrid’s personality, especially due to the fact that this is his family, he’s not just going to abandon taking care of his half-brother. So we move ahead a couple months later, and actually, the timeline speeds up quite a lot in these last couple of chapters. So we’re into April, and Dumbledore’s Army is beginning to work on more complex spells, on Patronuses, and this is a really great scene to read. And Eric, you mentioned here that what is Umbridge going to say when all the members of Dumbledore’s Army get Outstandings on their OWLs, given that they’ve been taught such mediocrity by her over the course of these last couple of months?
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Harry has a minute to gloat there a little bit right before the end, right before it all…
Micah: Yeah, disaster strikes, and Dobby shows up. And Dobby is trying to relay information to Harry, but it’s very reminiscent of Chamber of Secrets where he starts to punish himself for the information that is being provided. And I wonder, if he is in fact a free elf, why is it that he feels the need to punish himself in this moment? Is it because he is working at Hogwarts and this is Hogwarts information? Is it because he’s somehow working for Umbridge, because she’s the High Inquisitor of the school, and he’s betraying her trust? What are your thoughts here?
Laura: Doesn’t he say that all the house-elves in the kitchens were told not to tell anyone? And I guess if he works at Hogwarts, then technically, if he’s given an order by somebody in charge at Hogwarts, he has to follow it, or he feels like he has to follow it. But it very quickly becomes apparent that that’s not totally true, because Harry is able to order him out of it, basically.
Micah: Right.
Laura: And Harry is like, “I order you not to hurt yourself.” Dobby is like, “Oh, thank you.”
[Everyone laughs]
Micah: It’s very odd. I’ve always wondered about this scene, because I understand that the house-elves themselves, they agreed not to tell, but Dobby is a free elf; he can act of his own free will, so I just find it odd that he’s punishing himself in this moment.
Andrew: Well, maybe it’s just some leftover guilt, because we see him treat himself like this back in Chamber of Secrets. And this is maybe something you just don’t easily grow out of, revealing secrets and feeling guilty about it, so he’s just having a hard time with this free elf life.
Eric: Yeah. Old habits, as it were.
Andrew: Old habits die hard.
Micah: Yep. Well, we know what happens next. Umbridge finds out about the meeting of Dumbledore’s Army, she finds out about the Room of Requirement, she sends her Inquisitorial Squad after the members who are scurrying away like little rats in the hallway, and Draco tracks down Harry. All hell ensues from there, really. I don’t really feel good about a teacher awarding another student 50 points for tripping another student and catching them in the act of something.
Andrew: Well, yeah. I don’t see this in the Umbridge Suck count, so I’ll add this one.
Micah: Yeah, it needs to be added. So we end up in Dumbledore’s office. I’m actually surprised that Umbridge knows the password to get up there.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Andrew: Oh, and here’s another one to add to the suck count: She doesn’t knock on his door. She just barges right in.
Micah: Yeah, she just busts in.
Eric: [laughs] Well, I think she’s probably already been in there because she’s got the Minister for Magic.
Andrew: Oh, yeah, been in there tonight. Yeah, I imagine she’s been in there a couple other times as well.
Eric: Right.
Andrew: For unfortunate reasons.
Eric: But do we remember what we were feeling either the first time that we were reading this, or…? Because this is… I mean, something massive is about to go down, and I think that it may feel that way, but Umbridge taking him to Dumbledore seems like it would be… I mean, I was relieved, I think, on the most recent reread that she wasn’t just disciplining him herself.
Andrew: Yeah, and then not just… and of course, Umbridge isn’t the only one who’s there; Fudge is there as well, which is another big “Oh, bleep” moment. So yeah, this was scary, for sure. Harry’s big secret is about to be revealed.
Micah: It’s a bit mind-boggling to me, though, that they get this information from Marietta and then turn around and invite the Minister to come. What ultimately do they think they’re going to get out of this moment? I know they want to try and expel Harry, but even for that, does the Minister need to be present?
Eric: No.
Laura: I think the Minister wants to be present, because he views Harry and Dumbledore as having tried to undermine him for much of the last year. And Fudge, he’s very quickly losing his grip on power, so he’s nervous, so I think he wants to be there.
Micah: Well, it’s very reminiscent to the beginning of this book when Harry is put on this full scale trial. And he comes to Dumbledore’s office in this chapter, and you have the Minister; you have two Aurors in Kingsley and Dawlish. It’s this very grand scene that’s taking place for something that’s really not that big of a deal at the end of the day, which is a meeting of students in a school where they go to school and they should be allowed to meet when they want to.
Eric: Right.
Micah: So it’s just raising it to the next level.
Andrew: And Fudge was just humiliated by Harry because of this Quibbler interview…
Eric: Ohh.
Andrew: … so I could see that being a reason he wants to be there as well.
Eric: That’s a good point.
Andrew: He wants to see Harry be punished after Harry’s big old interview in The Quibbler.
Eric: Yeah, I mean, way back at the beginning of the year, Umbridge felt so threatened by Harry Potter – Harry hadn’t done anything to her or even met her at that point – she felt so threatened that she sent the Dementors to go get him.
Andrew: Yeah. And Fudge has this line, too, about witnesses, and he wanted to throw that in Dumbledore’s face as well.
Eric: [laughs] Oh, God.
Andrew: So this is just a power trip for him, sitting in on this meeting in which Harry is exposed.
Eric: What I love about this is… I mean, when you step into Dumbledore’s office, you’re in his land, right? You’re in his territory. You’re in Dumbledore World now. And Dumbledore usually – and this is not an exception – has a grasp on what to do, and Harry, even though he can’t look at Dumbledore without wanting to kill him, is able to look in the general direction and get very crucial, very needed direction from Dumbledore as to what to do or say.
Micah: Right.
Eric: So there’s this wonderful moment where Harry is looking towards Dumbledore, and Dumbledore is looking near Harry, and he’s able to shake and nod to indicate to Harry what to do.
Micah: And Laura, I think you found a really awesome thread to connect between this moment and Fudge’s attitude towards Harry and a scene from Prisoner of Azkaban.
Laura: Yeah, I mean, you really get to see the shift in perspective that Fudge takes towards Harry. In Prisoner of Azkaban, he’s so protective of Harry. We get to see that whole scene where Fudge is coming up to the school to dine with Dumbledore, but beforehand he goes and gets drinks with McGonagall, Madam Rosmerta, and Hagrid, during which Harry overhears the story about Sirius Black, and Fudge is there to try and discuss how to better protect Harry. And at the end of Prisoner of Azkaban, where Snape is trying to accuse Harry and Hermione of intervening or trying to have helped Sirius escape, Fudge says, “Ah, well, Snape, Harry Potter, we’ve all got a bit of a blind spot where he’s concerned.” And this is a complete switch to what we see in this chapter, where, as Harry and Dumbledore are trying to create this narrative for Fudge and the Ministry, he says, “Oh yes, let’s hear the latest cock-and-bull story designed to pull Potter out of trouble.”
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: He’s very much, Fudge, somebody who will blow with the prevailing wind, and that prevailing wind is his power, really, and so it’s whatever is going to help him stay in power. So when Harry Potter was convenient to the Ministry, Fudge was all about protecting him, but the second that Harry became any kind of liability or threat, Fudge is ready to throw him under the Knight Bus immediately.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Eric: I mean, Dumbledore and Harry are linked, and this chapter… even when they’re the farthest apart that they possibly can be from each other, emotionally or supportively, the two of them are linked in the Ministry’s eyes. And really, we could argue whether or not it’s… I mean, Harry is willing to tell the truth and Dumbledore is willing to sacrifice his headmastership over saving Harry or keeping Harry in school in this chapter; it’s just that he nods at the carpet to tell Harry not to lie. Really, just the connection between Harry and Dumbledore, I feel like it’s come back. I was missing it recently while reading, and now I’m like, “Oh, it’s back.” It’s stronger than ever. They understand each other.
Micah: Right. And I think it’s highly likely that Dumbledore was planning to leave the school at some point anyway; I don’t think that he believes that he’s going to be in power at Hogwarts for the entirety of this school year. I think just given everything that’s been going on with Umbridge, he’s obviously going to do his best to stay in that position, but I think that while maybe he didn’t anticipate this happening, he knows that his time is somewhat limited anyway, and he probably has had an escape plan planned for quite some time.
Laura: Agree.
Micah: Eric, you mentioned how Dumbledore is giving Harry these signs throughout the course of this conversation, and I thought it was really great writing on the part of J.K. Rowling, the fact that Harry is able to pick up on these cues. But after a few minutes, Umbridge is like, “Enough of this,” and she brings in her witness for the prosecution, Marietta Edgecombe, who is hiding her face because Hermione did a little jinx on those coins, and for anybody who would let slip information about Dumbledore’s Army, they got messed up good.
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: Yeah, I will say, from a writing standpoint this works extremely cleverly. Marietta initially came to Umbridge, and Umbridge actually… this is the biggest first mistake that Umbridge makes. She tells the room exactly what Marietta told her, I think maybe even before bringing Marietta in. But she says that Marietta came to her, that there had been a meeting that she already knew about in the Hog’s Head, but that this was a secret group, and it’s operating at Hogwarts, and they were meeting tonight. And as soon as she did that, her face erupts in these, I assume, very painful boils, spelling out the word “SNEAK.” And now Marietta is not only in pain, but there’s an element of, I want to say, vanity, that due to what has happened, the shock of it makes her want to go silent, and she’s fearful that if she speaks more, more will happen to her.
Andrew: Right. Well, yeah, I mean, I think that’s the whole point of it, right? The whole point of this hex was for Hermione… or was to prevent anybody from coming clean about Dumbledore’s Army. And while it didn’t completely work in Marietta’s situation, it did at least half work because, as you’re saying, she’s afraid of sharing more information. And I think she’s also just really embarrassed right now; her face looks like crap and she’s in front of Dumbledore and Harry and Umbridge and the Minister of Magic. I mean, this is just a very embarrassing situation to be in.
Micah: True. And I don’t think that Hermione went too far.
Andrew: No.
Micah: I think the members understand the severity of what this information would mean if it did get out into the wrong hands, and so there needs to be a certain level of punishment if you’re the one responsible for giving out that information.
Andrew: Exactly.
Eric: I mean, yeah, I’m not sure these scars ever go away, though. [laughs]
Micah: Oh.
Andrew: Well, she deserves them forever.
Eric: Ever. Ever! This is a school society here, so this is…
Laura: I can’t really see Hermione doing something that would be permanent.
Eric: In the brief amount of time that they’ve been able to examine them in this chapter, Umbridge, Madam Pomfrey can’t figure out how to fix them, so maybe it’s just a less common… I could be misremembering, but I’m pretty sure Marietta has the mark of this for quite some time.
Andrew: She does. The following year, there’s still some blemishes on her face, so maybe kind of like acne scars, I’m thinking?
Eric: Yeah, which…
Laura: Does she really?
Eric: Those are around forever.
Andrew: According to the wiki, the following year she still has some scars, and she’s wearing thick makeup to cover them up.
Eric: Geez.
Laura: Oh my God, Hermione.
Micah: Damn.
Andrew: Laura, this is the Hermione that called Firenze a horse.
Laura: [laughs] Yeah, that’s true.
Andrew: This is a whole new Hermione these days.
Micah: Not a good chapter for Hermione. This is what leads to her, Andrew, eventually becoming a serial killer.
Andrew: Yeah, exactly.
[Laura laughs]
Micah: This is how it starts.
Andrew: Just wait until Book 9.
[Micah laughs]
Eric: So I love the fact that what’s happened to Marietta gives the plausibility that the reason she’s not responding is because she’s vain or whatever, but I obviously hate the severity of what Hermione has done, the fact that it’s very not reversible. But it turns out they don’t stop there. During the course of this interrogation of Marietta, Harry feels a strange wind go by, and he sees, while they’re interrogating her, Marietta’s eyes go weirdly blank, and he’s able to piece together during this period of time that there is a Memory Charm being performed. Not even the Imperius Curse, which you can make somebody shake their head or nod, depending on what questions you’re being asked. But Kingsley, it’s pieced together, is modifying Marietta’s memory to, I guess, remove all the times that they met. The issue at point is whether or not there was ever multiple meetings of this group between the time that they met in Hog’s Head and this evening, when she reported to Umbridge that there would be a meeting. And Kingsley has kind of gone the hard route of erasing all the memories of all the times they met in order to get Marietta to nod or shake her head.
Andrew: In your opinion, it was the hard route.
Eric: Well, I think it’s…
Andrew: We’re going to have a debate.
Eric: Yeah. Oh, are we?
Andrew: [laughs] Yes, we are.
Eric: [laughs] I just think wouldn’t it be easier – to get her to shake her head or nod, I mean – using the Imperius Curse? I know the Imperius Curse is Unforgivable, but this is a lot of memory modification to be doing on the sly here.
Andrew: Okay, okay, well, save your arguments for the debate.
Eric: I wasn’t arguing the debate things; I’m just saying I think that it’s a little bit much for Kingsley. I think what we’re going to argue in the debate is whether or not this was fair to Marietta.
Andrew: All right, well, why don’t we kick off this debate, then? So are we okay with Kingsley modifying Marietta’s memory? And Micah and I are going to defend it being okay; Eric and Laura are going to defend it not being okay. I think Eric and Laura should start because apparently something happened in their Twitter DMs, and I’m super curious about this, so let’s hear it.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Laura: I don’t think it was Twitter; I think it was Slack.
Andrew: Oh, I heard DMs and I just immediately thought Twitter.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: We were toying with the idea of doing this debate, and after a couple days, nobody joined me on the side of “This was wrong,” so I decided to reach out to Laura over on Slack.
Andrew: I see.
Eric: And I was like, “Hey, I know you said…” Because Laura had been like, “Put me where you want me. Anything… either side is good with me.” And I was like, “Laura, nobody is volunteering for my side. Will you join me?” After toying it around, we were like, “Yeah, this would be great.” We came up with some ideas. We talked about our reasons that we’re about to argue.
Andrew: Let’s hear it.
Eric: Well, we both at the same time then said… or Laura said, “This will be fun,” and we both at the same time said, “Team Marietta’s agency.”
Laura: Yeah, it was really weird. We typed it at the same time and sent it.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: Yeah, yeah. So we’re Team Marietta’s agency, and we’re here to say not giving Marietta the choice to nod or shake her head based on… to further come forward, by removing her memory was a blatant overreach of what is right and what should have happened, on the part of Kingsley, guided by Dumbledore.
Laura: Yeah, there’s a lot going on here, and ultimately, modifying her memory was just a gross invasion to clean up for poor planning.
Andrew: Wow.
Laura: First, I would just like to call out that Dumbledore is fine with calling out manhandling of his students when it suits him. He is prepared to fight Umbridge for shaking Marietta, and yet he’s totally fine with an Order member wiping her memory, which I would argue is worse than being shaken by a professor. Furthermore, this is kind of a mess of Dumbledore’s own making. By ignoring Harry all year and letting Umbridge’s reign of terror go unchecked, he put the students in a position where they felt like they had to form a secret society, and this was bound to go wrong. Look at the fact that Marietta’s mother works for the Ministry. Harry and Hermione apparently didn’t do the appropriate amount of vetting before they decided who could be in their little secret society. This all comes back to Dumbledore, and Dumbledore’s need to keep people in the dark until it’s convenient for him to bring them into the know on what’s going on. And also, I don’t know how good Kingsley is at Memory Charms. Eric, do we ever get any kind of justification for his abilities here?
Eric: I mean, what if he screws up? But I’m even here to say, what if he doesn’t? He’s still removing defensive magical lessons and all that it entails to be taught and trained in this past year from Marietta’s mind. He’s making her super, super weak to defensive magic. What if she goes to fight in the Battle of Hogwarts in a couple years’ time and she doesn’t have all this training that she’s been getting at the DA meetings and dies because she can’t defend herself, because Kingsley removed all of those lessons from her mind?
Laura: Yeah. Or again, I mean, what if he’s bad at this? We know that not everybody’s good at performing Memory Charms. Look at Lockhart; we’ve seen what happens when somebody misfires a Memory Charm. You can be permanently disfigured mentally.
Eric: Not to mention the time constraint that Kingsley is under.
Laura: Yes, exactly. So what if she was permanently damaged in some way by this? We never really find out what the long-term results of this are, which is disappointing, I would say. But ultimately, I just don’t see why a child should be subject to these kinds of risks based on the misplaced priorities of adults.
Andrew: All right, I’ve heard enough of this.
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: Micah, it’s time for you and I to step in.
Micah: Yes.
Andrew: Do you want to start? Or shall I?
Micah: You can start and I’ll drop the hammer at the end.
Andrew: Okay, cool.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Andrew: The Micah mic drop.
Laura: The Thor hammer.
Andrew: So first of all, I will respond to some of the points that were just made. I mean, some of them were outrageous…
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: … but some of my comments before you two started blabbering: Desperate times call for desperate measures. Marietta screwed up enough by revealing to Umbridge what went on, so it was time for Kingsley and Dumbledore to take matters into their own hands. They can’t trust her anymore! They need to take control of this situation. They can’t risk her screwing up any further, so it was time to wipe her memory. And first of all, you two said wiping her memory. Her memory was not wiped; it was modified. It was just tweaked a little bit, that’s all.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Andrew: And the debate here is not whether or not Dumbledore’s Army needed to exist. You two got into that too for some reason. Dumbledore’s Army did need to exist, but that’s besides the point. Kingsley did need to modify her memory. Also, this point about Marietta losing valuable Defense lessons: She can be retrained. She learned them once; she can learn them again. Harry loves teaching Dumbledore’s Army; I’m sure he’d be happy to teach her again. Actually, he probably wouldn’t teach her, because now he hates her.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: But anyway. Also, “What if Kingsley screwed up?” Are you serious? He’s one of the most badass characters in the Harry Potter series. He didn’t screw up modifying her memory. He did it right, and she can learn these lessons again, and they needed to take matters into their own hands. Thank you.
Micah: Yes. I would echo those sentiments, Andrew, and note the fact that Kingsley himself becomes Minister for Magic not too long from now.
Andrew: Boom!
Micah: So I would hope that he is accomplished at some very basic, basic Memory Charms. As it relates to Marietta, look: Be loyal. If you were loyal, none of this would have happened in the first place, so you put yourself in this position to begin with.
Andrew: Amen.
Micah: And as far as modifying memories, clearly she didn’t want to be in these meetings anyway, so she’s not going to miss them all that much.
[Everyone laughs]
Micah: Right? I mean, if she wanted to be there… Cho dragged her along to these meetings. We saw the facial expressions she gave Harry. She didn’t want to be in the Room of Requirement; she didn’t want to be taking these lessons from Harry. So we’re sitting here talking about, “Oh, they modified her memory.” Well, I think she’s probably happier, to be honest with you, that she doesn’t have to remember these moments, because she didn’t want to be there in the first place. So she’s not losing anything, to be honest. And how inept, how unqualified are Umbridge, Fudge, Dawlish, that they don’t even recognize what’s been done? I mean, come on. They don’t know that this poor child’s memory has been modified? How unqualified are they in their respective positions to not notice a basic Memory Charm? So I’m fine with what Kingsley does. He saves the moment. Like Andrew said at the top, desperate times call for desperate measures.
Laura: Yeah, but desperation is the theme of the wizarding government. And I’m glad that you brought up the fact that Kingsley later becomes Minister of Magic; his predecessors don’t exactly make it seem like a position that’s filled by terribly qualified people. This further calls into question his ability to perform a Memory Charm for me.
Eric: I mean, he’s also doing it under a time constraint. You can get the most accomplished wizard, and if you give them a very small window in which to work, things could go wrong. It’s not a knock against his ability; it’s a knock against the fact that he’s removing literally six months of lessons right in front of everybody’s eyes. The fact that Fudge or Umbridge don’t recognize a Memory Charm being performed right in front of them also lets me believe that there could be a easier solution. Just give Marietta the Imperius Curse, have her shake her head or nod depending on which questions are being asked, and the result is the same without this lasting damage on Marietta. I think it’s dangerous to suggest that loyalty is the most valuable thing. I think we currently have a government guy who really likes loyalty, values that above all, in our administration in the US. See how well that has worked for the law and justice. But I think that Dumbledore values choice above all. “It is our choices, Harry, far more than abilities to determine who we are.” Marietta is not being given the choice.
Micah: Marietta made the choice to go to Umbridge, talking about choices.
Eric: But she should be given the choice to come forward again and tell the truth. Dumbledore is removing Marietta’s agency because he can’t handle the choice that she’s about to make.
Andrew: Why do you keep saying that they should put her under an Imperius Curse and also say that she needs to be able to make her own choices? That’s taking away her agency.
Eric: It still is. Both instances are taking away her agency, and would, in my argument, be unacceptable, but I’m talking about in terms of limiting the damage caused by Marietta. What Kingsley does is even more unconscionable, I think, because he uses the Memory Charm.
Laura: Well, and also, none of this would have ever had to happen if Dumbledore were speaking to Harry, acknowledging Harry’s existence, and if he weren’t letting Umbridge continue to run roughshod over the school and its institution that it stands for. The fact that he continues to let all of this go on directly leads to this culmination of events, and it didn’t have to happen. Marietta never had to have anything to tell Umbridge.
Micah: In one wave of his wand, Kingsley saves the wizarding world. What would have happened if Marietta told the truth there? Harry would have gotten expelled. Harry would have gotten outside of Hogwarts. Voldemort would have shown up; he would have killed him. He would have been exposed to everything going on. The series would have been over in five books.
Laura: [laughs] What would have happened if Dumbledore had just been upfront with Harry, and if he hadn’t let Umbridge spend the whole year physically abusing the students?
Micah: That’s not the debate question.
[Everyone laughs]
Micah: The question is are we okay with Kingsley modifying her memory?
Laura: But it relates to the debate question, right?
Eric: In summary…
Laura: Kingsley would have never needed to modify her memory if Dumbledore had been an upstanding, responsible adult. He’s not. End of story.
Andrew: You guys are so desperate; you keep bringing in Dumbledore. Let it go.
Micah: All right, I think we could wrap it up. If anybody has any closing thoughts, I think we can wrap it up. But I will say, I do appreciate these last two debates, arguing in defense of Umbridge and then now arguing to remove somebody’s agency and their ability to have to tell the truth.
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: It’s true. We got you guys, and you guys have had the hard positions both times.
Andrew: We will create polls on social media, and we can hear what listeners think. Who won the debate? Let us know.
Micah: And remember, who wins the debate should not be about who is “right,” but about who makes the best argument.
Andrew: Yes.
Eric: Right.
Micah: Just going to throw that out there.
Andrew: And remember the original question: Are we okay with Kingsley modifying her memory? Don’t get bogged down by these Dumbledore talking points that the other side were going on and on about.
[Everyone laughs]
Laura: Oh, man. You’re over here, “the other side; my opponent…”
Andrew: “Those people.”
Laura: Turning into a politician.
Andrew: [laughs] Miss Tee and Mr. Scull make some very good points, but they’re wrong!
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Eric: But I love how we do get an insight into – stepping away from the debate – an insight into the justice system. Umbridge gave Willy Widdershins a reduced or nil sentence for coming forward and reporting the first meeting in the Hog’s Head, and I think McGonagall, who’s in this room, even calls out, “Well, it’s great for this insight into the justice system,” and it’s just… Umbridge has been using the law to really cheat and achieve her particular personal vendetta against Harry all year.
Andrew: Yep.
Micah: It also makes me wonder, though, why it took them this long to catch Dumbledore’s Army, because if she did, in fact, have that information, going way back to their first meeting, it seems like she hasn’t been too focused on what they’ve been doing.
Eric: Right.
Micah: And I also think it’s a little bit ridiculous to assume – even though this is the argument that Dumbledore is trying to present – that that group hasn’t met since their meeting in the Hog’s Head. Tonight was the first meeting? We’re talking five months later.
Andrew: Right, no way.
Eric: What were they waiting for all this time? But this is what Dumbledore has to work with, right? He can only… he is limiting… he’s basing his entire argument based on the facts that Umbridge let slip, that she dictates the argument that Dumbledore makes inadvertently, because that’s what he has to work with. All he can do is manipulate the facts that she already has, just like he points out that them meeting in the Hog’s Head was not strictly against the rules, because it wasn’t until the next day or the next week that she made it illegal in her Educational Decree. Just like that, he’s able to manipulate things so that Harry wasn’t breaking the law. I guess Dumbledore’s whole thing is to keep Harry in school and, to your guys’ point earlier, safe from Voldemort.
Micah: Yeah, certainly having him being there assists in Umbridge probably not finding out about this, or at least finding the group until tonight. I know we did talk a lot about this already, but the fact that Umbridge puts her hands on Marietta… I actually made the comment – this would have been good for you to use in your debate, Eric, Laura – that Umbridge only puts her hands on Marietta because Kingsley has taken her agency and she doesn’t have the ability to naturally respond. This is a moment where Dumbledore gets really angry, and understandably so, but I personally don’t think that he can be angry with this moment because he caused it.
Andrew: Well…
Eric: Yeah, Umbridge is not getting the answer she wants. That’s why she shakes Marietta, is because Marietta seems to be so moved by fear that she isn’t giving Umbridge the answers that she wants.
Andrew: But I guess Dumbledore just did not expect Umbridge to start actually shaking Marietta, and I do like that Dumbledore stands up and yells at her and says to stop “manhandling” Marietta.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: I also thought this was pretty good evidence that Dumbledore does not know about what’s going on in Umbridge’s detentions, because if he’s having this reaction to Umbridge simply shaking Marietta, I think he would have an equally visceral reaction towards Umbridge’s detention style. So in a way, it’s nice to know that Dumbledore doesn’t know, because if he did know and was letting it happen, those detentions, I would have a big problem with Dumbledore.
Eric: That’s a really good point. I think, too, the shaking of Marietta by a teacher would, I think, overrule the Memory Charm that’s currently being performed. I think that high stress would take her out of it. I think that’s the worry that’s written in the book, the way that she almost seems to become lucid and then falls back into it. I think that’s what Dumbledore is objecting to over anything else, the fact that what he’s surreptitiously allowing Kingsley to currently do might be interrupted. I don’t think he actually cares about Marietta at all.
Andrew: That’s an interesting idea. Also, he couldn’t just sit there while Umbridge is shaking her. He had to do something.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Micah: Yeah, I’m surprised others didn’t step in and try and take her off of Marietta. Again, I don’t know how aggressive the shaking was, but you would think McGonagall, possibly even Kingsley, would have intervened there. Again, it’s an adult and a child here. But finally, the truth comes out. Andrew, would you like to read this quote from Dumbledore?
Andrew: [imitating Dumbledore] “Well, the game is up… Would you like a written confession from me, Cornelius – or will a statement before these witnesses suffice?”
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Andrew: I was really embarrassed for Dumbledore in this moment, because he’s admitting to recruiting teenagers. This dude is over 100 years old and he’s working with teens? That is so embarrassing and pathetic to me. [laughs]
Eric: Teens are cool! Teens are hip! Teens are the future!
Andrew: Teens are a hundred years younger than he is, and he’s working with them. It’s creepy.
Eric: They’re the future, Andrew. Teens are the future. No.
Andrew: And to Fudge, it looks like this is the best he’s got? A bunch of teenagers. It’d be one thing if he’s working with adults, like he actually is in the Order of the Phoenix, but in Fudge’s eyes, he’s just working with kids! This is so lame.
Micah: Right, to…
Laura: But this was actually Fudge’s worst nightmare, though.
[Micah laughs]
Andrew: That Dumbledore is working against him, yes. I don’t know about that Dumbledore and kids are working against him.
Laura: No, doesn’t Sirius or Lupin tell them earlier on in the book that Fudge thinks that Dumbledore is recruiting an army at Hogwarts?
Micah: Yep.
Eric: Yeah, that’s why they named it Dumbledore’s Army to begin with. But what I love about it is this whole confession comes from just the tiny little fact that on the piece of paper, it says “Dumbledore’s Army,” and in doing him that tribute, in naming the group after him, it enables him to then really live up to Fudge’s worst nightmare in front of Fudge. I’m sure he relishes every moment of shocked reaction that we see on Fudge’s face, and we as the readers do, too, because this is his worst fear. But it’s all because at the very, very last minute, when Dumbledore looks down at the paper that Pansy Parkinson went and grabbed, he sees that little bit of thing, and immediately the complete end game comes completely clean.
Andrew: He’s also probably so moved by the fact that they named their group after him that he wants to defend them further. But another question I wanted to ask you guys is do you think Dumbledore knew about Dumbledore’s Army in advance of this night?
Eric: That’s a real question. My instinct is no.
Laura: Well, I mean, Mundungus also overheard the meeting at the Hog’s Head, and that’s how Mrs. Weasley and some other Order members found out about it.
Andrew: Right.
Laura: So I wouldn’t be surprised if Dumbledore knew about that too and had his suspicions about what the students might be doing.
Andrew: Right. That’s the one way I feel like he would know, because maybe Aberforth overheard and then relayed what he heard back to Albus.
Eric: Right.
Andrew: Otherwise, I’m not so sure. I think it’s very cool to think Dumbledore learned about it during this night in his office and just sprang to action, came up with a plan really quick.
Eric: I agree.
Micah: Yeah, it seems kind of farfetched that he would have been able to come up with a plan this quickly, but he is extremely intelligent. I would have thought if he really knew about this, though, he would have put some protection around the meetings themselves without the kids knowing about it, because why allow this to happen? Why allow them to get caught? So it’s tough. I don’t know the answer to that question, but yeah, it’s very quick on your feet type of thinking. “Dumbledore’s Army; it’s my directive to Harry and to these other kids to form an army against you.” It really is, though, to Fudge’s point when Laura quoted him earlier, it really is a cock-and-bull story that Dumbledore is coming up with here.
[Eric laughs]
Micah: And this goes to the point earlier about them not being able to recognize the fact that Marietta has had her memory altered. They’re just so… they’re wearing blinders, right? They only want to hear what they want to hear in this moment, and that is that Dumbledore has been rallying an army to work against the Ministry. That’s all that they want to get out of this moment, and Dumbledore gives it to them.
Eric: Yeah, Percy almost pees himself with giddiness taking down Dumbledore’s statement. It’s pretty annoying.
Micah: Yeah, but one thing that Dumbledore does say before he departs to Fudge is… he says that he’s going to regret his decision. And I actually wondered – and I know we have an email here – and is there actual payoff to this statement between Dumbledore and Fudge, or was this just kind of forgotten about by J.K. Rowling?
Andrew: Yeah, so let me read this email first. This is from Laura of New Zealand.
“During the Dumbledore’s office scene, when Dumbledore is about to escape, he says, ‘I am not leaving to go into hiding. Fudge will soon wish he’d never dislodged me from Hogwarts, I promise you.’”
Eric: Wow.
Andrew: Laura says,
“I can still remember reading this line for the first time and immediately imagining all the badass shit Dumbledore was going to get up to after leaving. But in reality, he’s literally never heard from again until the Ministry scene, with the exception of Umbridge mentioning once or twice that the Ministry is looking for him. I don’t think the line was referring to all the stuff Dumbledore goes on to do in Book 6 because he says ‘Fudge will SOON wish,’ implying shit’s going to go down pretty quickly. And if he didn’t have time to get his plans in place before the Ministry scene, why would Jo include the line at all? Anyway, I have always been bothered by the lack of payoff from this line and I’m glad to finally have the chance to air my grievances with you guys! Thanks for such an amazing show and everything you do.”
Andrew: Yeah, that is a great point. You read that and you’re like, “Oh, man, Dumbledore is about to crack the whip. He is going to go crazy. He’s talking about breaking out of Azkaban, potentially. It’s Dumbledore gone wild,” and he doesn’t do anything!
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Laura: I wonder… because we know that earlier on in the series, Fudge relied on Dumbledore a lot. Fudge used to write to Dumbledore all the time seeking counsel.
Andrew: Right.
Laura: And I wonder if this is what Dumbledore is referring to, the idea that Fudge will actually have shot himself in the foot by losing somebody like Dumbledore, in the event that Fudge realizes, “Oh, I’ve kind of messed up. I need to get Umbridge out of Hogwarts.” Now he doesn’t have that ally to fall back on if he decides to revisit his position in the midst of all of this.
Micah: Yeah, it’s a great point. And I thought as well, could it also just be that Fudge is going to fall at the end of this book, right? He’s going to lose his position as Minister, and I think that could, in part, be what Dumbledore is talking about, that “You’re going to regret your decision, you’re going to see that Voldemort is going to come back, and you’re going to pay as a result of that.”
Andrew: Yeah, that’s a good point.
Eric: Yeah, I think that whatever Dumbledore is planning… unless he did a bunch of guerrilla attacks that discredited the Ministry or something. Once Fudge loses his job, I think Dumbledore feels like that’s apt punishment, and the public outcry that ensues. And it’s really, I think, the public outcry that ousts Fudge, more so than the fact that he himself was taking a different position.
Micah: Yeah. So Dumbledore makes his great escape from Hogwarts, and I remember the scene from the movie. It was pretty well done, right? Fawkes with the assist.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: Yeah, it was an iconic scene from the movies.
Micah: Yeah, and Kingsley’s line about Dumbledore having style, even though in this particular chapter, it’s actually Phineas Nigellus Black who makes the comment.
Andrew and Eric: Yeah.
Micah: Because Kingsley is off looking for Dumbledore, knowing full well he’s not going to be able to find him.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Micah: But what do we make of this moment? It kind of leaves you feeling a bit empty. I know that Dumbledore talks to Harry a little bit, tells him to practice Occlumency. Before he leaves, Harry feels the angered… he’s having a mix of emotions.
[Eric laughs]
Micah: But the end of the chapter felt a bit empty to me, though, too, right? Because now… we very rarely have been in a position where Dumbledore has not been at Hogwarts.
Andrew: Right, and Harry and Dumbledore have, in a way, lost during this scene. And Harry is feeling really embarrassed that he was hiding this secret army from Dumbledore, I think, and that’s one of the reasons Harry feels the way he does by the end of this chapter.
Micah: Yeah, I totally agree. You don’t know what’s going to happen, and I’m actually surprised that Harry doesn’t get a harsher punishment. Dumbledore assumes all the responsibility here, but we know that Harry and Dumbledore – to your point earlier, Andrew – they’re connected, so why is Harry allowed to even stay at Hogwarts? I’m not clear on that either.
Andrew: Well, because Dumbledore has taken all the blame. “This was me.” I mean, he could have pushed it further; he could have said, “I made these kids join me,” to try and completely clear Harry, but he didn’t need to go that far.
Eric: Well, I think Umbridge is focused on the fact that she’ll be High Inquisitor now, or she’ll replace the… she’s focused on the benefits that she’s going to get. Nobody was expecting the golden goose, Dumbledore himself, to come out and say, “I did this.”
Andrew: Right.
Eric: And so everyone is forgiving Harry’s transgressions because they’ve gotten a much bigger prize.
Andrew: Yep, exactly.
Laura: Dumbledore even says this; he’s like, “This is a bit like trying to find a Knut, but actually finding a Galleon.”
Eric: And we know from our recent Quizzitch that there are 29 Knuts to a Sickle, and 17 Sickles per Galleon. That’s like 493 Knuts.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Micah: Wow. Good for you, Eric.
Andrew: Fudge is rich.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: All right, let’s move on to the Umbridge Suck count. We’ve got a lot this week.
Eric: [laughs] This may be the most that we’ve done in one week.
Micah: I think it is. Or it’s close. What do we got, seven here? Yeah, what a shock. Seven.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Andrew: First of all, preventing Harry from easily talking to his friend Hagrid.
[“Hem-hem!” Umbridge Suck count sound effect plays]
Andrew: Still shadowing every Care of Magical Creatures class.
[“Hem-hem!” Umbridge Suck count sound effect plays]
Andrew: Sending and recruiting Slytherin students to do her dirty work for her.
[“Hem-hem!” Umbridge Suck count sound effect plays]
Andrew: We came up with this one earlier: awarding Draco 50 points for catching Harry. That’s just mean.
[“Hem-hem!” Umbridge Suck count sound effect plays]
Micah: And I think she gives him detention, too, doesn’t she? Or am I making that up? I don’t know. She’s done that so many times.
Andrew: Yeah. She doesn’t knock on Dumbledore’s door when she enters. That’s just rude.
Micah: Rude.
[“Hem-hem!” Umbridge Suck count sound effect plays]
Andrew: Rude, rude, rude. Also, loosening Willy’s sentence in exchange for information on Harry; that’s just wrong.
[“Hem-hem!” Umbridge Suck count sound effect plays]
Andrew: And then laying hands on Marietta, or as Dumbledore said, “manhandling her.”
[“Hem-hem!” Umbridge Suck count sound effect plays]
Andrew: And the new total is… [laughs] 69.
Eric: Nice.
MVP of the Week
Andrew: Okay, let’s move on to MVP of the Week.
[MVP of the Week music plays]
Andrew: I’m going to give mine to Harry for being willing to take one for the team, even after Dumbledore started confessing. I would have been like, “Dumbledore, please. You can take the blame all you want.” But Harry was willing to take the blame for it, and that takes courage, and I really admired that.
Eric: I agree.
Laura: That is the Slytherin in you, for sure.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Eric: I’m going to give it to Dumbledore. I mean, wow, man, way to show up for a meeting. He really mastered the situation he was presented with. And also for building Firenze’s new classroom, making him feel at home.
Micah: I gave it to any portrait that flipped off Fudge.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: There’s a brief mention of that in the chapter, and I’m all for it.
Laura: I’m going to give mine to Dobby. If Dobby hadn’t warned them at the time, it would have been way worse. So many more students would have been implicated.
Andrew: It’s true.
Rename the Chapter
Andrew: And now let’s rename the chapter. Order of the Phoenix Chapter 27, “Dumble-Damn, He’s Got Style.”
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Eric: Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix Chapter 27, “Confessions of a Hogwarts Headmaster.”
Micah: Order of the Phoenix Chapter 27, “You CAN Apparate at Hogwarts.”
Andrew: Now, is that a reference to Fantastic Beasts? Or are you saying that Dumbledore Apparated in the scene?
Micah: Yeah, that’s more of what I was saying.
Andrew: I don’t think he did, though. But whatever.
Micah: What do you think he did? Turn into Fawkes?
Andrew: Yeah, yeah, that one.
Laura: It was some special phoenix magic.
Micah: He was really hanging from the chandelier.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: Nobody knew. Nobody noticed.
Andrew: No, he’s got a bathroom in the back of his office, and he just flushed himself down the toilet.
Micah: Actually… all right, if we’re debating the title, I’ll go with something Laura said, which I thought was really good: “Fudge’s Worst Nightmare.”
Andrew: [laughs] Okay.
Laura: There you go. And I went with Order of the Phoenix Chapter 27, “I’m a Bad Bitch; You Can’t Take Me.”
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: If you have any feedback about today’s discussion or maybe a question about next week’s chapter, Chapter 28, sort of like how Laura from New Zealand had a question that she submitted in advance, submit it to MuggleCast@gmail.com, or use the contact form on MuggleCast.com. You can also record a voice memo using the Voice Memo app on your phone and send it to MuggleCast@gmail.com. We love to hear from you, and by the way, we do read all of your feedback, so thanks to everybody who does take the time to write in.
Quizzitch
Andrew: It’s time now for Quizzitch.
[Quizzitch music plays]
Eric: Last week’s question: Who retrieves the list of Dumbledore’s Army members for Umbridge? We mentioned earlier in our chapter discussion, it was in fact Pansy Parkinson who ran into the Room of Requirement and grabbed the list while all that chaos was happening. Ugh, I just hate that person.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: That person’s not great. So actually got a few wrong answers, but the correct answers were submitted by Erika, LessThanStace, Tori Tesla, and Jason King, as well as Caleb McReynolds, who answered classic Jeopardy style. Congratulations to all the winners of Quizzitch. Next week’s question: What are the three spells that James Potter casts on Severus Snape, besides Levicorpus, inside Snape’s worst memory?
[Quizzitch music ends]
Micah: Timed that perfectly.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Andrew: Submit it on Twitter using the hashtag Quizzitch.
Eric: This is a real hard one I don’t expect anybody to get, but “Snape’s Worst Memory” is the next chapter, which is amazing.
Andrew: It’s a big one.
Eric: I’ve got to say, from this point forward, dude, all the chapters are just massive hits. They’re just so exciting.
Andrew: Massive hits. Massive J.K. Rowling hits. These are her Born to Runs. Don’t forget, we are offering patrons a special T-shirt, the MuggleCast 15th anniversary T-shirt, available if you pledge at the Dumbledore’s Army level or higher and stay pledged for three months or more. We are offering the shirt in two colors, in two cuts, with a Muggle crest, with the MuggleCast tag imprinted inside of it, and with our birth year on the shoulder. It’s a really awesome shirt. And by the way, we’re partnered with a printing and shipping company this year, so everybody’s going to get a tracking number once their shirt ships, which is really helpful as well, so you know exactly where it is.
Micah: Andrew.
Andrew: So pledge $5… what?
Micah: Does it say “Née 2005”?
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: No, it says “Est. 2005.”
Micah: Oh.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Andrew: Pledge $5 or more per month, and in addition to getting that T-shirt, you will get access to our recording studio, so you can hear us record live each Saturday or Sunday morning. You also get a personalized video “Thank you” message from one of the four of us, and you will get access to bonus MuggleCast and all kinds of other things. Patreon.com/MuggleCast. Thank you. Sign up, support, pledge before June 30 to be eligible for the T-shirt. Woo!
Micah: Nice.
Andrew: I’m extra punchy right now because I’ve got to pee. Okay, thanks, everybody, for listening to today’s episode. I’m Andrew.
Eric: I’m Eric.
Micah: I’m Micah.
Laura: And I’m Laura.
Andrew: Goodbye, everybody.
Laura and Micah: Bye.