Transcript #94

MuggleCast 94 Transcript

Show Intro

[Audio:] Hey there MuggleCast listeners. I am back to inform you of some excellent news. is having better deals than ever. For only $3.59 a month for twelve months, you can get’s economy package. With 250 gigs of bandwidth, five gigs of storage, and up to 500 email accounts, you can get your own website up and running with success. And as usual, enter code muggle, that’s M-U-G-G-L-E, when you check out and save an additional 10 percent on any order. Some restrictions apply, see site for details. Get your piece of the internet at

[Intro music begins to play]

Andrew: Because Jamie is back on the show this week…

Jamie: Enough said.

Andrew: …this is MuggleCast Episode 94 for June 12th, 2007.

[Intro music continues to play]

Andrew: Alright, last week we had three co-hosts, now we have a pretty big show. Jamie’s finally back.

Jamie: Yeah. Glad to be back.

Andrew: It’s about time.

Ben: Hold on a second, where was–who was the three last week? Who were the three?

Andrew: It was me, Laura, and Micah. Don’t you listen to the show?

Jamie: Yeah, Ben, don’t you? Come on.

Ben: Oh, of course. I was just kidding. I was just clarifying for the fans, guys.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Ben’s also back, not that anyone cares at this point.

Ben: Ouch!

Andrew: But Ben is back, and…

Ben: That hurts, Andrew.

Micah: I care, Ben. I care.

Andrew: I’m sorry. This is just a whole big group. Jamie, I got an e-mail this week.

Jamie: Yes.

Andrew: Not everyone’s so happy about your return.

Jamie: Oh no.

Andrew: It says, “Jamie on show next week,” that’s the subject line, and it says, “I don’t think Jamie should be on the show next week. I’m enjoying it without him. Andrew, if you ever leave the show for a month, I’d probably cry. See, I’m crying just thinking about it. You’re always my favorite.” What do you have to say to Sarah?

Ben: Does this person happen to be from Medford, New Jersey?

Andrew: No, it’s not.

Jamie: Who’s it from? Who’s it from?

Andrew: It’s from Sarah. Just from Sarah.

Jamie: Yeah, who’s what? From where?

Andrew: It doesn’t say anything. It was just from Sarah.

Jamie: Well, Sarah, if you’re too scared to even put your name and, you know, where you’re from, I couldn’t even begin to respond to such a sort of anonymous threat. I mean, [laughs] I only respond to people who are clever enough and brave enough to put their credentials down. So if you ever feel like actually providing an adequate response, email me, jamie at staff dot mugglenet dot com. Or if you’re too scared to do that, you could email Andrew and talk about me behind my back. Feel free. Thanks Sarah.

Andrew: Actually, she said in the PS she was just kidding.

Jamie: Oh. Did she?

Andrew: Yeah.

Jamie: Sarah, I hate people who put their credentials down. I just like anonymous, cool responses from people called Sarah, which is a beautiful name, in fact. I bet you’re a beautiful girl. A beautiful name for a beautiful girl. And I like your e-mail address, as well, so if you ever feel like, you know–I can’t think of anything to say. Did she really put PS?

[Hosts laugh throughout]

Laura: Keep digging, Jamie.

Andrew: Anyway, yeah, that PS was real.

Jamie: Oh, this is such a joke. I’d like to make it known for the record that this was a massive elephant trap. I’ve just been put right into this. So yeah.

Andrew: Anyway, Jamie’s back in the United States, and it’s the only way…

Ben: We have him here in the studio this week.

Jamie: Yeah, here in the MuggleCast studio this week.

Andrew: This is the only way we could get him back on the show, unfortunately.

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: This is what it’s become. But anyway, we got a big show for everybody this week. Lots of co-hosts and lots of stuff to discuss. I’m Andrew Sims.

Ben: I’m Ben Schoen.

Jamie: I’m Jamie Lawrence.

Eric: I’m Eric Scull.

Laura: I’m Laura Thompson.

Micah: And I’m Micah Tannenbaum.

[Intro music continues to play]


Andrew: Micah Tannenbaum is in the MuggleCast News Center with the past week’s top Harry Potter news stories. Hey Micah.

Micah: All right, thanks, Andrew. Of course, the big news this week, Scholastic has released the cover art for the deluxe edition of the American Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows:

David Saylor, Vice President, Creative Director, Scholastic described the art: “Set during a highly dramatic sunset, Harry, Hermione, and Ron–clothes in tatters–cling atop a flying dragon in this astonishing artwork created by Mary GrandPré for the deluxe edition. As mist creeps down towering hillsides to a village below, questions arise about where the trio is headed and what has led them to this spellbinding moment.”

The book will contain 816 pages compared to 784 pages in the regular edition and will cost $65; 100,000 copies are being printed.

Speaking of Mary GrandPre, The American Harry Potter illustrator recently spoke in an interview about her coveted job and a little about the Deathly Hallows cover. On whether people pester her for inside info on the books, Mary says: “Not really so much. I think people just know that I can’t talk about it.”

She says the cover of Book 7 is probably her favorite and thinks “It’s fun to see the reaction from people. The fans that are really diehard fans look very closely at the artwork.

“I try to make everything have a meaning,” she says, “There is a reason why something is in the illustration. I don’t just put it in because it looks better. It really does have to have a meaning or part of the story has to support it.”

And in a new interview, Harry Potter movie producer David Heyman discusses how he “can’t wait” for the release of Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows. On his life post-Potter, he says:

“It’s a combination of sadness and excitement, I think—for Jo, and for all of us. This world has become a huge part of millions and millions of people’s lives. We all love it so much, and I think, afterward, there will be a little hole in our lives for a while.”

But not everyone is crazy for the release of the seventh book. A new article examines how some major retail chains have implemented huge discounts for the last Harry Potter book, causing them to earn minimal profit. According to the article:

“They are literally not going to make one penny out of the book. It is stupid — just throwing money away… The world has gone mad.”

From book to movie news, Electronic Arts and Warner Bros. Digital Distribution have announced a Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix video game specially designed for mobile phones. The game is being developed at EA Mobile’s UK studio and is expected to be available from UK cell providers beginning on June 15. The game won’t be available in the US, however, until June 26.

And from July 6th through July 8th, ABC will air the first three Harry Potter films, and feature never-before-seen clips from the Order of the Phoenix film. Sorcerer’s Stone will air at 7:30 PM ET on the 6th, Chamber of Secrets at 7:00 PM ET on the 7th, and Prisoner of Azkaban at 5:00 PM ET the following day.

Finally, MTV has released an article covering all aspects of the growing music genre in the Harry Potter fandom known as Wizard Rock.

The article mentions well-known bands such as Harry and the Potters and Draco and the Malfoys. It goes on to say that wizard rock has become its own genre.

That’s all the news for this June 11th, 2007, edition of MuggleCast. Back to the show.

Andrew: All right, thank you Micah.

Micah: No problem, Andrew.

New Theme Park

Andrew: Okay, so the big news this week – thankfully, because we didn’t have a main discussion–was the deluxe United States cover art came out today, Friday, although the show will be out later in the week. And we will be talking about that in a minute, but first we wanted to get everyone else’s reactions to the theme park, specifically, Jamie, Ben, and Eric. Jamie, what are your thoughts on this new theme park? As someone who lives in England, will you be going to the theme park?

Jamie: Well, it’s in America, isn’t it?

Andrew: Right.

[Ben and Laura laugh]

Ben: Yeah.

Jamie: Well, I probably won’t be making a special trip out to go to it, but I think it’s a cool idea, but it’s quite a big thing just for Harry Potter, you know? I mean, I wouldn’t ever see a Star Wars theme park, but I’m sure there has been one and someone is going to email in and say that there’s a big famous one.

Andrew: There’s been rides.

Jamie: There’s been rides, but there’s a huge difference…

Andrew: Right.

Jamie: …between doing an entire theme park based on Harry Potter and based on one ride. And after Harry Potter dies in five years, and I’m sorry to everyone, but it is going to, eventually, it may have this four hundred million dollar theme park. What are they going to do with it?

Andrew: Yeah.

Ben: Oh, I don’t think that’s an issue.

Andrew: Do you think most foreigners would be interested in coming over to Universal Studios to visit the theme park?

Ben: I’m sure that there’s going to be some like crazy, wild fans who would do it.

Jamie: I think some will, yeah, because I mean, some people go over to see Equus in London for a special trip – not that you’re a crazy wild fan if you do that, because it’s absolutely awesome, but…

Andrew: The American fans are a little crazier.

Eric: That’s a really good point, Jamie.

Andrew: Eric, you travel to New Zealand, so I’m sure you’ll be going to the theme park, but…

Eric: Absolutely.

Jamie: Is it worth a special trip? I mean, it’s going to be awesome, and you know – how sort of cannon is it going to be? Are we going to go there and see all of the stuff the books, or so they have a huge creative license about it? Where it’s going to…

Eric: That’s actually the real question, Jamie. And you snagged it right on the head there. How is it going to be? Is it going to be Seamus’ slippery slide, or you know- things that actually, you know are there actually…

[Ben laughs]

Eric: …be a ride – a big roller coaster called ‘Lord Voldemort.’ Are they going to do that kind of stuff? Or is it going to be kind of… cheesy? Like…

Ben: I think they are going to have to, in order to have it more attractable they are going to have to have rides like ‘Lord Voldemort’s scary roller coaster.’ I mean, that’s an excellent name for it, I’m sure that’s what they are going to use, but…

[Others laugh]

Eric: But, well, no…

Jamie: I will travel the world to go on that.

Eric: I’m, actually guys, I just built a – I just recently built a Harry Potter theme park in Roller Coaster Tycoon, because I still play Roller Coaster Tycoon.

Andrew: I love that game.

Eric: I love that game. It’s the best game ever. Shout out to that! And Chris Sawyer, the creator, but, so I came up with a few ride listings for last weeks show, how I ended up not being on it, I have a whole list of rides I was thinking about, but..

Andrew: Mhm.

Eric: Basically, there are a lot of names, and a lot of cool that they could do for the books. They could have a big roller coaster called, ‘Expelliarmus,’ or something. You know? Just something like that. And that is the kind of stuff I would like to see. Being as they’re doing Hogsmeade, and I guess you guys discussed this last week, what do you think they’ll actually – do you think there will be a sweet shop that they will call ‘Honeydukes’? And you’ll be able to…

Jamie: Yeah.

Ben: Absolutely.

Andrew: Definitely.

Ben: That will be the best play on the actual series. So, I think it’s actually going to be like that.

Andrew: Laura, Micah, and I were talking about the conceptual art for this park, and by the looks of it there weren’t many rides in the form of like a roller coaster. It didn’t look like there was going to be many big rides.

Eric: Which is upsetting.

Jamie: I think…

Ben: Who’s it going to be aimed at? It’s obviously a family thing because it’s already down there in Florida. So…

Eric: Yeah, but so is Vegas.

Andrew: Yeah…

Eric: Vegas is a family destination, too.

Jamie: No it’s not.

Ben: No, it’s not. It’s not like Orlando.

Laura: No.

Jamie: It’s like your four year old son going to and playing poker all night.

Eric: Vegas is seriously the family number one family destination of the world. That is what they are trying to be. That was their image for years… I’m just saying.

Jamie: I thought it was just drunken gamblers.

Eric: Well, it is…

Andrew: It is.

Jamie: And us.

[Andrew and Jamie laugh]

Eric: And us, but…

Andrew: Yeah. Any other thoughts about it? I guess…

Jamie: It’s cool, but it’s one of those huge projects which you think they’ve obviously done loads of research into it and people are already going to want it, and you can’t spend 300 million if people don’t want to go. So, there will obviously be huge amounts of it, and people will go because it is a very novel idea. It’s just – it’s going to be successful because it has to be, or you can’t build on it like that.

Eric: Also, remember J.K. Rowling has been in talks with them since the beginning. Since for years now. That’s what the news clips said.

Andrew: It’s going to be very real to the books. I think we definitely know that just the question is what kind of rides are there going to be at this point.

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: Well, didn’t one of the papers report that they were keeping some of the rides from what’s currently there right now that they were going to try and change them over to be Harry Potter-themed.

Eric: Yeah, that seems…

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: They are just going to…

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Take some old roller coasters and try and rename them, like…

Andrew: Yeah, if they can get away with that…

Laura: If they can do it…

Jamie: Space Mountain and call it…

Laura: I mean…

Jamie: ‘The Apparition Magician.’

[Andrew and Ben laugh]

Jamie: I’d go on that.

Andrew: How does that relate to the books?

Jamie: Well, that’s like recycling old things. So, you take – I don’t know.

Andrew: I think the purpose of that would be trying to save money because people are still going to ride it. If they took Space Mountain and called it ‘Harry Potter Space Mountain’ everyone would go on it. Every Harry Potter fan would go on it.

Eric: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, totally.

Jamie: Exactly, yeah.

Eric: I’m not exactly against that idea. I just think they also build some new rides as well. Even if they wanted to go beyond cannon and do some really cool rides, like you know how in the books at least in the early ones Neville is always looking for his toad Trevor? So, I was thinking…

Jamie: Find Trevor’s Toad.

Eric: Trevor’s…yeah, Trevor’s Trail, or something. And just like, you know, you are on this ride and you are trying to find Trevor for Neville, or something. You know? Just cool ideas like that.

Andrew: Laura, did you have an idea?

Laura: Well, I was just going to say that I don’t see any problem with them recycling rides. I mean that’s kind of what you have to do with these theme parks. That’s what they’re doing to – that’s what they do to create a whole bunch of the stuff you see there. A lot of stuff that was originally part of Universal Studios has been since replaced, and they don’t use all of the original parts either. They will put in new stuff, but it is mostly just to use the space.

Jamie: Yeah, definitely.

Andrew: Mhm.

Eric: Well, still. I don’t think – if you are going do it, anything worth doing is worth doing right, and especially in Harry Potter’s case this park is going to be big and they have a chance to make it really big and really cool. Not just half cool. Not just almost cool. They have a really good chance to – I mean, this is going to be after Book 7 and maybe even after movie 7. They are going to have not much to do, so they can really do it correct. They can do it right.

Jamie: Ok. I have a question. If they had a ride called ‘Avada Kedavra’. And you have a 1 in a 15 chance of dying if you went on this ride…

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Jamie: …and it was absolutely awesome; the biggest thrill of your life. It was amazing.

Ben: Would you do it?

Jamie: Yeah, would you do it? I would. I mean, come on. You know?

Ben: I don’t know. I like my odds. I like my chances there.

Eric: I would just go… Jamie, I…

Jamie: I would rather it was e 10 to one.

Eric: I would go in groups of 14, though. If there is a 1 in 15 chance of dying I would go in a group of 14.

Ben: If 14 of you went they’ll be a 1 in 15 chance of dying.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Yeah, yeah. I know…

Ben: It doesn’t change that.

[Jamie laughs]

Eric: Yeah, there’s a joke in there somewhere. It’s just, it wasn’t, you know…

Andrew: That would be an easy way to clean up the MuggleNet staff, who all took a trip down here and went on the ride.

[Everyone laughs]


Andrew: We just took the group down there, and we all went on that ride. All right, so moving on to a couple of announcements now. Don’t forget to vote for us on Podcast Alley. It’s sort of a new month. June’s getting old, but don’t forget to vote for us. We’re doing pretty well. So, we thank everyone who has voted. Also our National Wear Your MuggleCast T-Shirt Day was a great success.

Ben: As always.

Andrew: We have close to 100 submissions from T-Shirt Day, now up on in the MuggleNet Galleries. So be sure to check those out over at Let’s see, it’s also Spread MuggleCast Month. Did everyone know this?

Jamie: Ummm, no.

Andrew: Jamie hasn’t been on the show, so I don’t even think he knows.

Eric: What? Like on toast?

Laura: We did.

Andrew: It’s Global Spread MuggleCast Month. And on there are several avatars and lots other things you can get to help promote the show. As we are getting closer to the book release, so it only makes sense to promote the show more. If you know what I’m saying. So, that’s that. Ben, people only have a week left to sign up for Pickle Pack.

Ben: Oh geez, yeah. Remember, Pickle Pack is – if you’re a MuggleCast fan you want to join Pickle Pack.

Jamie: You do.

Andrew: I don’t see why, though.

Ben: Why?!

Andrew: Because it’s called Pickle Pack.

Eric: See you guys, I mean you guys have been listening to us for, you know, however many episodes. Some people have, you know, we’ve got some new users on there who’ve been with us since the late 80’s, actually. Some very recent listeners.

Jamie: Wow! 25 years!

[Ben and Jamie laugh]

Jamie: That’s impressive.

Eric: But, no… But then we’ve got the other – [laughs] We’ve got the other listeners who’ve been with us since, you know Episodes 40 and since the very beginning who are on Pickle Pack. And so the idea is basically, you hear us on the show. You hear us discuss our Harry Potter theories. And so now if you join Pickle Pack you get to hear us talk more about how the show came to be. Some bonus content, some bonus footage, maybe behind-the-scenes of MuggleCast. And also our personal lives. And we do weekly video blogs that we do. And it’s kind of, you know, just day-to-day life with us. And it gets you to know the people who are behind…

Jamie: Those are NC17, though. So, you need to be careful when you watch those.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: Yeah. Yeah, but – Now, Jamie, so do you want to continue? Do you want to tell them a little more about the blogs? Or just, you know…

Jamie: No, I think you’ve summed up everything.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Sorry.

Andrew: That’s about right. So visit today and sign up. We’re only taking sign ups until June 16th. The cost is $30 for those of you in the US. And then, $50 everywhere else to cover the additional shipping costs for going international.

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: So we thank everyone for signing up. It goes to supporting the show for our summer endeavors and the like. Because we’re all poor college kids. So that’s that. Anyway, a couple weeks ago I promised that my next wizard rock single would be on, what was it? Episode 92? I’m going to play it here on this week’s show in preparation for Prophecy 2007. Which is coming up August 1st to the 5th, I think? Or 6th?

Laura: I think it was the 2nd through the 5th.

Andrew: 2nd through the 5th.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: Close enough. [laughs]

Jamie: Yeah, just August.

Andrew: That’s when we’re going to be there. I forgot. I keep getting confused. Anyways, I was a little unclear what the wizard rock event at Prophecy is going to be. And Jade, the head of Prophecy 2007, e-mailed me and asked me to clear this up. And she just wanted me to say that – well, from their web site:

“The Common Room Wizard Rock event is a time for Harry Potter fans to gather in the comfort of the Prophecy 2007 Common Room and listen to music inspired by Harry Potter’s cannon and fannon. No stage…”

Jamie: Who are they?

Andrew: “No feats and lights, and no AV equipment.”

Jamie: Oh that was a good gag. Why aren’t you laughing?

Andrew: “Just the musicians and the fans. Scheduled throughout the conference, bands and solo acts: Oliver Boyd and the Remembralls, the Cruciatus Curse, Celestial Warmbottom, and Andrew Sims perform. I’m in the description, Jamie. How cool is that?”

Ben: Wow.

Eric: Dude, you need a name. You need a name.

Andrew: That is my name. Andrew Sims, we’ll leave it at that. I mean, you know, you thought Harry and the Potters was big. Look who’s in the description, me. Seating is limited, so it’s a first come first served basis and you must be a registrant of Prophecy 2007. So, please e-mail commonroom at prophecy2007 dot org for mor details or if you have any questions or comments. Such as, “I’m so glad you accepted Andrew because he is so cool and he should…” Uhhh, I don’t know where I was going with that. At the very end of the show today will be the premier of my next wizard rock song. Now, it’s a spinoff of ‘N Sync’s “Bye Bye Bye”…

Jamie: A copy, then?

Andrew: No. No, no, no. It’s not a copy. But I had to hire some of their back up artists, back up singers. And they weren’t really accepting of changing their background vocals into my lyrics that I needed. So, there’s a couple of “Bye Bye Bye” backing vocals in there. But I made it work still because they were being a little hard about that. But anyway…

Eric: You downloaded the karaoke version, didn’t you?

Jamie: Yeah, exactly.

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Andrew: No, I hired the ‘NSync back up vocals…

Eric: Oh, right. Yes. OK.

Andrew: Like Joey [mispronounces] Fat-One and Lance Bass.

Jamie: That’s awesome that you know their names.

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Andrew: I called him [mispronounces] Fat-One. It’s really Fatone.

Jamie: Oh, oh. [laughs] Yeah, but you still know them enough to even make a joke about it. That really shows – wow.

Andrew: Yeah. I lived in the ’90’s, didn’t you?

Jamie: No, I didn’t. I was born in ’86, then I died for ten years.

[Everyone laughs]

Ben: He skipped the ’90’s.

Jamie: And then came back to life.

Deluxe Edition Cover

Andrew: All right, so anyway, of course the big news this week the deluxe cover for Book 7 came out today, Friday. The United States deluxe edition. It was big news. Arthur Levine announced it on the Today Show this morning on NBC. He seems to be all over NBC’s Today Show these days.

Ben: He is, isn’t he?

Andrew: Announcing all this new stuff. Yeah, they’re really buddy-buddy. Matt Lauer and Arthur Levine. But anyway…

Ben: Hey guys, sometime we need to talk about Harry being a horcrux. Because I’m really convinced that he is one now.

Andrew: Ben, speaking of that, how has the tour been going?

Ben: The tour has been doing wonderful. We’ve already been to – geez, we’ve already had ten events already. And three days ago we were in San Francisco. So, the travel’s been taking a toll on us. But, I mean, it’s just really fun. I mean, I’m really enjoy the speaking, meeting all the fans. There’s Pickle Pack members like crazy. Every one we go to there’s at least one or two.

Jamie: Really?

Andrew: Sweet.

Jamie: That’s awesome.

Ben: And every time they come up to me and say, “Will you mention me in your Blickle this week?” and I always forget. [laughs] So, we only have about two weeks left on the tour, check and get the link on the website. There’s a scrolling ticker and you can see all the dates that we’re going to be at here over the next two weeks, so come out and see us. It’s a fun time to talk about all kinds of crazy Harry Potter stuff.

Eric: Okay, so guys. Micah, tell us about this cover here. What’s going on with this cover, I’m questioning. This new cover art that’s released. I like it, what do you guys think?

Jamie: It’s nice. It’s very sort of Eragon-ish.

Eric: Little bit.

Andrew: It sort of is, yeah.

Jamie: I don’t know if it’s a bit…

Eric: I…

Jamie: Sorry, no. Go on.

Eric: I was worried at first. I saw it in the small view – the thumb view – and I said is that a thestral or a dragon? Because if it’s a dragon, it might as well be Eragon and not Harry.

Andrew: Well, we know it’s a dragon because it said right there in the press release.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: I actually want to read it. David Saylor, Vice President, Creative Director, Scholastic described the art: “Set during a highly dramatic sunset, Harry, Hermione, and Ron – clothes in tatters – cling atop a flying dragon in this astonishing artwork created by Mary GrandPré for the deluxe edition. As mist creeps down towering hillsides to a village below, questions arise about where the trio is headed and what has led them to this spellbinding moment.”

Jamie: Oh my! That sounds like a bad piece of fanfiction, sorry.

[Everyone laughs]

Jamie: It’s like the scarlet, billowing clouds of the Hogwarts express gleamed in the mouthwatering sunshine.

Eric: That was pretty good, Jamie.

Laura: Jamie, you should write fanfiction.

Eric: Yeah, you should. [laughs]

Jamie: Oh no.

Andrew: It’s interesting how much detail they went into in just that little description. But there are a couple things we wanted to talk about. For one, we know it’s a dragon.

Jamie: Yeah.

Micah: Yup.

Eric: I think it surpasses the original cover art for the US, like if I were in the US for the time of the book, I would actually get the deluxe edition, wouldn’t you?

Andrew: Yeah. I would, but, I mean, there’s just something about getting the – quote on quote – classic book that I like.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: Having the book without the extra box, just the book.

Ben: Yeah, I agree.

Eric: Okay.

Andrew: The deluxe is for collectors.

Laura: I’ve never actually owned any of the deluxe editions, to be honest. They’re really expensive.

Andrew: Yeah.

Jamie: And they used to be very cool when there was only a handful made, but now the first edition stretched for like, 100,000 copies, so it’s, you know…

Laura: So, everyone can get one, really, it’s not…

Andrew: Half-Blood Prince is the only other US book that had a deluxe edition, so you can’t even get a whole set.

Jamie: Which one, sorry?

Andrew: Half-Blood Prince.

Jamie: Oh, because ours are all deluxe. They made deluxe versions of all of them.

Andrew: Right, right, but Scholastic just came up with the idea at Book 5, I guess. I don’t know.

Jamie: There comes a point where you’re just paying more for the same book.

Andrew: Right.

Jamie: With just a pretty cover, which is all nice and all, but how often are you going to just sit there and stare at it?

Andrew: Right.

Laura: Well, I know that I remember that when the Half-blood Prince one came out they were talking about additional artwork, and they had a copy of it out at Barnes & Noble out on display, and I looked and the additional artwork was all the chapter art just blown up bigger.

Jamie: Oh my god.

Andrew: Right, that’s one thing you get with it.

Laura: So, it was just kind of a rip, it seemed to me.

Eric: That is a rip. Okay.

Andrew: It’s nice, though, for a collector who wants to see the art that Mary made in full detail, if you know what I’m saying.

Laura: Well, yeah that’s true.

Jamie: Yeah. Or you could just download it.

Micah: And print it on your printer and hang it up on your wall.

Andrew: Or you can just go to chapter – chapter art, don’t we have a chapter art page?

Jamie: Yeah, you could.

Eric: Yeah, we do. My chapter art is still on there, I think.

Andrew: You redid it, but we also include all the originals. Which I don’t know if Scholastic wants us to or not.

Jamie: It’s a bit late now. It’s been up there about five years.

Andrew: Yeah. What else do we want to talk about, guys?

The Antipodean Opaleye?

Eric: Ummm, okay so Micah did some – Micah, was it you who did this research here? Or did you get an e-mail that said, “hey guys what about this?”

Micah: No, I did some research. I was reading through the comments probably like most of us were, and seeing what all the fans out there had to say, and they had a bunch of different ideas as far as where the dragon was flying over, and what was going on, and one of the most interesting things, I thought, I think is what type of dragon is this, and a lot of people though, well maybe it’s Norbert, maybe we’re going back to Book 1 and he’s all grown up, and now they’re using him for some type of adventure, but based on the eyes that the dragon has, a lot of people said that it’s a dragon that’s found in Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them, and I’m going to butcher tis name because I don’t know how to say it correctly: the Antipodean Opaleye. Do you guys want me to read the description?

Andrew: That’s a good attempt.

Jamie: Antipodean, I think.

Micah: Antipodean?

Jamie: Just to be, yeah…

Eric: Antipodean Opaleye?

Micah: So, do you want me to read the description real fast here?

Andrew: Sure, what does it say in the book?

Micah: It says: “the Opaleye is a native of New Zealand, though it has been known to migrate to Australia when territory becomes scarce in it’s native land. Unusual for a dragon, it dwells in valleys rather than mountains. It is of medium size, between two and three tons. Perhaps the most beautiful type of dragon, it has iridescent, pearly scales and glintering, multi-colored, pupil-less eyes, hence its name. This dragon produces a very vivid scarlet flame, though by dragon standards it is not particularly agressive and will rarely kill unless hungry. It’s favorite food is sheep, not cow, though it has been known to attack larger prey. A spate…” Is that how you say it?

Eric: Yeah, spate.

Micah: “….of kangaroo killings in the late 1970’s were attributed to a male Opaleye ousted from his homeland by a dominant female. Opaleye eggs are pale grey and may be mistaken for fossils by unwary muggles.” So I think that people determined that this was an Opaleye based on the fact that the dragon in the picture doesn’t have any pupils.

Eric: And that is the point where I confirm that yes, in fact, this dragon on the cover is indeed an Antipodean Opaleye and that Mary Grand Pre actually called me up and wanted to borrow mine so that she could draw it for the cover.

Jamie: Your Antipodean dragon? I mean, your Antipodean Opaleye?

[Jamie and Laura laughs]

Eric: Yeah my Antipodean dragon.

Jamie: What, do you keep one in your basement or something Eric?

Eric: Opie. I call him Opie and he’s a really cool dragon, he’s really beautiful and…

Jamie: You told me he was called Steve.

Eric: [laughs] He’s called Steve. Steve, my Antipodean Opal Eye dragon. So, I was up – no actually, seriously guys there’s an area about an hour or two north of here, north of Wellington called the Wyrapa, and there’s these tall, tall mountains and a very thin valley. You guys might know it from Lord of the Rings, it was the Dimholt. All right, so you guys might – yeah, yeah. So you guys might recognize it from Lord of the Rings, the Dimholt, which is the dark wood. So, right around that area which isthe valleys in this place, the Wyrapa. So, I was just driving up there the other – when I first came to New Zealand and I met, I met Stevie. So, he became my dragon and I was kind of – you know, I’d visit him on weekends and stuff but…

Ben: Okay, but in reality here what significance does what type of dragon it is, hold?

[Laura laughs]

Eric: Well, ummm…

Ben: Is the question.

Eric: Micah do you want to continue about, specifically about…

Micah: Yeah.

Eric: …the antipodes.

Micah: I think the opal eye thing is kind of obvious in its name right?

Eric: Mhm.

The Symbol and the Dragon

Micah: Opal eye. That kind of makes sense. But the other thing I did, was I did a little research. You know? What does antipodean mean, and actually what it says is that “the antipodes of any place on the earth is the place which is diametrically opposite it. So, situated that a line drawn from the one to the other passes through the center of the earth and forms a true diameter.” Now, to me, if you take that and you put it into sort of a visual, you take the earth and you put a diameter through it, that somewhat represents the symbol that we saw on the spine of…

Andrew: Mhm.

Jamie: Oh.

Eric: That symbol. That symbol we’ve been talking about forever and ever and ever – for the past five weeks.

Micah: Yeah.

Eric: Ummm…

Micah: And I just think that’s too coincidental.

Andrew: Yeah

Eric: It’s cool.

Andrew: Especially when you look at…

Laura: Oh, that’s interesting.

Andrew: Micah, you pointed out to me earlier this week a screen cap from Goblet of Fire which has something in the movie – maybe you can tell everyone where, at which point in the movie it was again. But it’s in the movie and it’s an actual sphere.

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: And there’s something going through it right?

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: Just like you were talking about.

Micah: Yeah, somebody sent in a rebuttal saying if you go to the pensieve scene of Goblet of Fire, right after Harry comes out of the pensieve, he’s talking with Dumbledore, Dumbledore goes over to one of his cabinets and in the cabinet you can see what appears to be the exact same symbol as we see on the spine of Goblet of Fire. It’s sort of this object…

Eric: Oh.

Micah: …instrument whatever you want to call it.

Andrew: What is it?

Eric: Which would be a real life version of whatever this is.

Micah: Right, right.

Jamie: I bet it’s kind of like, like to draw and X-men reference: Cerebro, you know from X-men. That thing – I bet he can like see where people are on earth. Not a kind of Marauders Map thing, which is you know just in Hogwarts. But, I bet it’s something like that.

Eric: So, you really think so?

Jamie: What else could it be?

Eric: Because how would one…

Jamie: Or it’s like a Horcrux detector.

Eric: How would one… Well, maybe a Horcrux detector, but what would it do? Whir really – whiz really fast?

Jamie: He bought it at target.

Andrew: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Eric: So I – wait if it’s at all like Cerebro how would you actually plug in? How would Dumbledore, you know, kind of locate things? Or how would one use that instrument if it’s just, you know if it’s just a triangular object with a sphere and a line through it?

Eric: See. What are it’s applications as an object? What do you think it would actually do?

Jamie: This thing? Well, it could do anything I mean the fact that it has two halves perhaps could be like a good/evil reference or, you know, or a good side/bad side, or Voldemort/Dumbledore, or Gryffindor/Slytherin, or you know?

Andrew: That’s why a few weeks ago someone brought up that that split could be Snape, good versus evil.

Jamie: Mhm.

Eric: Well, I just like this idea of the Antipodean Opaleye because it made me feel really special, because all of a sudden there’s this New Zealand reference, and I’m thinking, “Oh that’s where I am and you know where I’ve been hanging out.” And so in Harry Potter there’s this dragon that might be the dragon they’re riding which is originally from New Zealand. And it’s my Stevie, so I’m really happy. But Micah you did some research…

Jamie: Are they paying you royalties?

Eric: Yeah, yeah – oh well I can’t really talk about that. Um but…

Jamie: So, yes.

MuggleCast 94 Transcript (continued)


Eric: Yeah. But you guys – Micah there’s also a thing on Antipodes about noon at one place being midnight at the other.

Micah: Yeah.

Eric: On the opposite side of the world and so the longest day at one point corresponds to the shortest day at the other and midwinter at one point is contemporaneous with midsummer at the other. So it could play into the sky. Do you guys – do you get that?

Micah: It could play into the sky, it could also play into – we know midwinter, well December 31st is when Voldemort was born, and we also know that…

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: …Harry was born midsummer. So…

Jamie: Ah, that’s very good, yeah.

Eric: July 31st.

Jamie: And also…

Eric: But that’s actually five months apart.

Jamie: And on the cover of the American edition, they’re holding they’re hands up to the sky…

Laura: Yeah.

Jamie: …perhaps that, I mean this is terrible but, perhaps it’s a kind of half-and-half thing. Night and day as you were saying. Sunset, sunrise…

Micah: Could be. Could be.

Jamie: Actually, that’s awful. No don’t say that Micah, it’s clearly not.

[Micah laughs]

Laura: Well, what if there’s something to do with – we know they can’t face each other with their wands at least, what if there’s some time of year, like you know we’re talking about the difference between night and day and the difference between certain days on other sides of the world, what if there’s a certain time.

Jamie: It is. Laura, Laura.

Laura: Like, a specific time they can.

Jamie: Laura, it’s like on June 20th, and they get there June 19th, stay over…

Ben: But why all of a sudden would they be allowed to on a certain day, I don’t get that.

Jamie: Have dinner. Get drunk together as one final night, you know, and then kill each other the next day.

Laura: Well, I don’t know, there seems to be a significance put on, like, the earth and specific times of day. That’s – I mean, that’s at least what I’m getting from this. Like there’s suppose to be a special significance put on it and I’m trying to figure out what’s so special about it.

Eric: Yeah, and if you look at the explanation, it says dramatic sunset of the, you know? It’s sunset and…

Laura: Mhm.

Micah: Right.

Eric: It’s kind of like daylight and all sorts of stuff. And like, not only will Book 7, I guess, answer all the questions, or a lot of the questions that we’ve been asking, but it seems to be focusing on the sky and all these other what would be seemingly random or extraneous kind of ideas like the sky and antipodes like, you know, opposite ends of the earth, what exactly, you know – it’s pretty cool stuff.

Laura: Mhm.

Andrew: Is that the sun setting on the right side of the picture?

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: I didn’t even really notice that until now. I mean, the sky is almost the same color as the regular US edition. So, I mean, we were – in one of the previous shows we were just talking about, well what time of day was it? So I guess if the color of the sky sort of matches, I guess we can assume from both they’re both set in the evening.

Eric: Except I was…

Andrew: We were thinking, oh maybe they’re fighting all night and then it was like a new day.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: A new day.

Eric: Like a new day.

Andrew: Like the sun was rising. So, you know?

Eric: Well I was happy that Hermione and Ron were with Harry in this new image. I was very happy with that. Just because.

Where Does The Cover Fall in The Timeline of Events?

Andrew: Right, it was – well where in the timeline of events is this image placed?

Ben: Towards the end.

Andrew: Because we have…

Micah: Yeah, I agree with Ben.

Andrew: The very end?

Micah: I think this is the end.

Andrew: Because, is this before – is this before or after Harry’s battle? With Voldemort.

Laura: I don’t know, I don’t think it would be after.

Andrew: Yeah. I sort of think it’s before too.

Laura: I think they look too scared, especially Hermione, for it to be after.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: And their clothes are in tatters.

Andrew: Well it’s weird because it’s like, Hermione is looking up at something in the sky, Harry’s looking straight ahead.

Laura: Mhm.

Andrew: And Ron’s also looking straight ahead, it seems. But it almost looks like this is sometime around when they’re coming out of, perhaps, Gringotts. Because they’re wearing cloaks. Now they don’t match the same colors as the…

Laura: As the UK cover, yeah.

Andrew: Right, right. So.

Where Is the Village?

Laura: Well, you know, I almost wondered when you look at the village below, are they anywhere near Godric’s Hollow?

Eric: Yeah, is that Godric’s Hollow?

Andrew: Right, right.

Eric: Could it be? Is a hollow – but I thought a hollow was like a clearing in trees or something, so I wasn’t…

Jamie: No, no, no. It’s just a – yeah.

Laura: It doesn’t necessarily have to be…

Jamie: It’s just the name or…

Laura: It’s just the name for the village or neighborhood.

Eric: Okay yeah, but that’s just, you know, that’s like – never mind.

Micah: Well, I mean if you go back to the whole antipode thing, part of what it said there is that it’s used in Britain to refer to Australia and New Zealand, as the inhabitants of these countries are sometimes referred to as Antipodeans. So, I mean, you could be in a completely different country in that shot right there.

Andrew: Right.

Micah: Beause if that is indeed the dragon, that dragon only resides in Australia and New Zealand. So…

Jamie: Oh really?

Andrew: Right.

Ben: Right, but why would they be going to Australia?

Laura: Eric, have you gotten a visit from Harry?

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: Harry – or Eric. Eric has…

Ben: Eric, Eric has the last horcrux at his house.

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Andrew: I see Alice’s house in this cover.

Eric: Yeah, that’s us. No actually those houses to resemble some of the houses in Wellington that were built up on hills and stuff. So, I’m just saying I’m feeling the love.

[Micah laughs]

Eric: I don’t know exactly what this means but all of a sudden, New Zealand is in the focus as being the Antipodeans of the UK and suddenly I feel like I’m right there!

Jamie: The thing is…

Laura: And Jamie…

Eric: I feel like I’m right there, I feel like it’s special.

Jamie: This is quite – the thing about this photo is the clouds. I mean, I assume it isn’t drawn to scale, but the clouds look very, very low compared to the village.

Andrew: Wait, are you talking about these?

Jamie: Yeah, yeah.

Andrew: The fog? That’s fog.

Jamie: Oh, is that fog?

Andrew: It’s described in the press release.

Jamie: Ah. Okay, ignore me.

Andrew: There’s like a little waterfall over to the right, I didn’t even really notice that either.

Jamie: Oh yeah. I don’t – I mean, apart from that fog stuff that looks like clouds, it just looks like – the village doesn’t look particularly important, and although didn’t she describe Godric’s Hollow as a very normal sort of sleepy village? You know, that wasn’t particularly exciting, it was just where they lived.

Eric: Well actually guys theres – if you think about it, there’s actually, they’re not above – at first when I saw it I thought they were above water, but they’re actually flying above farmland but there’s a river.

Jamie: Yeah, yeah.

Eric: The orangeness is kind of a river. So, they’re actually in between mountains. So, they’re flying through a valley, which would seem to fit as well with the Opaleye’s origins, as per Fantastic Beasts. So…

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: Well Jamie, Jamie.

Jamie: Yeah?

Laura: Jamie, are there landscapes like this in the UK at all? I mean, are there mountains like this?

Jamie: No, no, no. No, not with the villages beneath them.

Ben: Okay, but you’ve got to remember that it is a fantasy world. So, if J.K. Rowling wants mountains to be beneath a mountain…

Laura: Yeah, well…

Eric: No, no but JKR has always been accurate with things like – remember in the first book when they took the trip.

Laura: Like landscapes and stuff.

Eric: Yeah. Yeah, when they took the trip down through England to…

Jamie: And the…

Eric: To Coaxworth..

Ben: Right, and Godric’s Hollow and Hogwarts do actually exist.

Eric: Well no, I’m saying, we’ll no…

Laura: We’re talking about landscapes.

[Ben laughs]

Eric: Well of course. No, no. As far as landscapes go – as far as being geographically correct…

Jamie: And the Hogwarts…

Ben: Come on, as far as creative licenses, she can put whatever she wants.

Eric: Yes she has creative license, but she actually puts the Burrow in a small area outside a village. She actually plans this kind of stuff. When the Railview Hotel is in Coaxworth, you can actually track the, you know, from Surrey to, you know, in that direction. The landscape is the same. She’s not gonna put mountains in the middle of England if there aren’t any.

Jamie: No, but that’s just continuity, Eric. That isn’t geography, it’s continuity. She can’t just say, first they were driving down and road and then they were driving down, you know, a dirt track littered with volcanoes. It’s just – it’s just not the thing that has to be…

Andrew: It’s continuity, but she’s also made references to London.

Jamie: Oh, she has, yeah.

Andrew: The fog in London. And the Prime Minister – they didn’t make that up. That’s not, you know, fantasy.

Jamie: No, but she could say that the Prime Minister lives in, you know, Zimbabwe.

Andrew: Yeah, but it’s…

Jamie: It’s continuity.

Andrew: …clear that the Harry Potter books are set in the United Kingdom, outside of London. They go through King’s Cross; King’s Cross is real. I mean, there’s tons of real-life examples.

Ben: Right, but there’s tons of real references, at the same time, if – there is no Ottery St. Catchpole, is there? I doubt it.

Andrew: Mmmm.

Eric: Well, I’m just saying, she wouldn’t put mountains where there aren’t any mountains. She wouldn’t put, you know – she wouldn’t have them…

Andrew: Unless this is in the magical world. I think that’s what we should be considering here.

Ben: Yeah.

Andrew: Because, if this scene is not in the magical world, then yeah, it’s probably in New Zealand.

Ben: But why wouldn’t it be in the magical world?

Eric: Well, that’s the question. There is no – there is no actual magical world, is there? I mean, the magical world is the Muggle world. There is no extra…

Ben: Unless there’s locations that are Unplottable.

Eric: Well…

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: Unless there’s entire, you know – exactly, unless there’s mountains in…

Jamie: No, because Unplottable locations still exist in the Muggle world. You just can’t see them.

Ben: They still exist, but they don’t want to go there, because like you said, they resemble a broken-down house or…

Jamie: Well, yeah, exactly, but if you – she said that Hogwarts is, you know, if Muggles go there, it’s a sign saying “Danger, don’t enter,” or something like that, but if they did enter, and they walked past Harry, would they see each other? It’s like, I saw a film the other day, Silent Hill.

Eric: Yeah.

Jamie: Has anyone seen that?

Eric: Silent Hill is a great movie, Jamie.

Jamie: And in it, there are basically two different worlds: one, in which this woman has to find a child, and one in which the woman’s husband and a police officer are finding the woman. And you sort of see one scene where the woman is finding her child and all these monsters are there, and the place is red with blood, and stuff like that, and then the camera moves, and it’s the police officer and the man in exactly the same place, but it’s a completely different world…

Eric: Yeah.

Jamie: …and they can sense each other but they can’t see each other.

Eric: Exactly.

Jamie: So, if, say, if we went into the building that Hogwarts is supposed to be and walked in, and sort of looked around, would you see – could you bump into Harry and stuff like that, or not?

Ben: I don’t think so.

Eric: Well, the difference is that you wouldn’t be able to travel up the corridors or anything, because the corridors wouldn’t be there. You actually wouldn’t see Hogwarts, you would be – and by that time, you would remember that you’d left the oven on or the kettle on, or something.

Ben: Yeah.

Ben: Now what about…

Eric: You know, so no. But, just to correct…

Ben: Didn’t…

Eric: Sorry, Ben?

Ben: No, go ahead, Eric.

Eric: Okay, well, just to correct about Silent Hill, there’s actually, I mean – it was a great movie, I liked it, and a friend of mine got me then into the video games. There’s actually four or five different dimensions in Silent Hill, but the town, it’s that idea of alternate kind of realities, and what is real and what is not – are they alive or are they dead, and that’s kind of Harry Potter-related.

Andrew: Yeah. But also, we also got to remember that if this really is this dragon – the Antipodean Opaleye, whatever you want to call it. If it really is that type of dragon, Jo has specifically said that it’s native to New Zealand and Australia. So…

Ben: But does it only reside there? Is that what it says?

Andrew: It says, “The Opaleye is a native of New Zealand, though it has been known to migrate to Australia.”

Ben: Right. But so, that doesn’t mean that you can’t fly on it outside of there.

Andrew: No, but…

Laura: Yeah, but, I mean, Charlie also works with dragons in Romania, so you never know.

Ben: And they transport dragons around all the time, I’m sure.

Andrew: He could of. Well, fair enough, fair enough.

Micah: Well, what if you’re talking about…

Eric: Well, it’s interesting for the books…

Ben: And, also, okay, I have a question.

Micah: Okay.

How Is This Dragon Tamed? Is It Norbert?

Ben: I don’t know if you guys talked about this, don’t get mad at me if you did, but didn’t Hagrid say dragons can’t – I mean, didn’t J.K. Rowling say that no matter what Hagrid thinks, dragons can’t be tamed? So, how exactly…

Andrew: Yeah, she said something about…

Eric: Well, they can’t be tamed. They can’t be tamed.

Laura: Something like that.

Eric: …but you can still…

Ben: So how exactly are they riding one? So, unless it’s like – the first thought that came to my mind is that it’s Norbert again.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Well, okay, it’s the power of love. It’s the power of love, okay? Harry can…

Jamie: Well, yeah, there are always exceptions, like manticores.

Ben: For example, though, look into…

Jamie: [sings] My eyes, you will find…

Ben: They always put – J.K. Rowling puts things into the movies, she makes sure certain things are into the movie, and the plotline in Sorcerer’s Stone for Norbert was significantly cut down, but at the same time, it was left in there, and you have to wonder why they wouldn’t remove it at all unless that was significant later on.

Andrew: Mhm.

Eric: Yeah, that’s true.

Ben: And to me, that’s why it would make sense that that dragon could be Norbert.

Laura: Mhm.

Ben: Although, do we know, do we actually know – do you actually think that Mary GrandPré went through Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them to find the exact dragon and draw it based off that description or do you think she was just drawing a dragon?

Eric: Well, forget…

Andrew: Going off the book description?

Eric: I think she read the book, actually. But that was my…

Andrew: She did read the book.

Ben: Oh, I know, I know. But if the book said…

Andrew: If it said it was this type of dragon, this Opaleye…

Ben: But do you think they actually know? I mean, I guess it depends on how the story goes, but…

Andrew: Well, I would think that if you’re illustrating one of the most popular books in the world, you would do your research.

Ben: No, that’s not what I’m saying, I’m saying…

Laura: I’m sure that there’s a description in the book.

Ben: …would Harry, Ron, and Hermione know? When they will be talking about – “Oh, yeah, I can’t wait to go ride the Opaleye dragon” or whatever. I mean, would they actually say that?

Eric: Well, it could be significant.

Laura: There’ll going to be a description, though, Ben.

Ben: Right. Of course there would be a description…

Laura: She’s not just going to say they hopped on a dragon.

Ben: Of course they’d say, this dragon was this color, blah, blah, blah. But I don’t know. Even if it…

Eric: Well, overall…

Why Would They Be in Australia or New Zealand?

Ben: Okay, overall, even if it is from Australia/New Zealand, it doesn’t mean that it couldn’t go to Great Britain. I mean, what purpose would they have in Australia and New Zealand?

Jamie: It would take a long time.

Eric: Well, no, Ben’s question is my question too. It’d be kind of weird for JKR to set a Harry Potter book outside of England at anytime…

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: … or Europe, I should say. I mean, we’ve seen, you know, we’ve heard a bit of France, we’ve heard a bit of Bulgaria, we’ve even heard of, you know, the American plumbers, etcetera. You know? But the books are set in England.

Laura: Plumbers?

Eric: This is an English book.

Micah: Well, I think it goes back to what Laura was talking about earlier, and sort of the whole, only certain things can only happen on certain days, and maybe there’s a connection with that symbol. Maybe that symbol, its effect is sort of transporting them somewhere else. Does that make sense? I mean, this symbol is tied in…

Laura: Yeah, I definitely agree.

Micah: …somehow. It’s too coincidental.

Laura: There is. The more we see of the cover art coming out and you know, the emphasis on times of day and the sky is really, really intriguing, because you’ve got to consider that – it’s got to play a huge role. I mean, they wouldn’t be putting such an emphasis on it if it wasn’t.

Micah: What do you think about the U.K. edition?

The Sky

Ben: What do you mean, what do you mean? Wait a minute. Explain what you mean.

Laura: Well, you just see such a big emphasis on the sky. Like, in the U.S. cover, for instance, Harry and Voldemort are both reaching up towards the sky. They are both looking up towards the sky. In the U.K. version, you can see the same color from the sky through the archway on the cover and here, again, you see the same kind of colored sky and they are all looking off into the distance.

Ben: That isn’t saying that it’s enormously significant.

Laura: Yes, but then, it does, though, because even with his description, he described it as – he was talking about a sunset and it just seems like they’re putting more of an emphasis on the sky than they ever did before. You never really heard about that.

Jamie: It’s not some pathetic fallacy.

Laura: Yeah. Well, not to mention you always hear about, in the books, you know, the “blood-red sky.” There is always some sort of description of it and it seems like…

Ben: Well, yeah, there’s a description of the sky, but hat doesn’t necessarily mean that it relates to the plot. I mean, the sun could be setting…

Laura: I think it could though because of the symbol.

Ben: It could, yeah.

Laura: Tying together with the symbol and what it could mean.

Eric: Weird. If – yeah.

Micah: There was an e-mail today, I guess, that brought up an interesting quote from Book 1 saying, “Well, look at the sky, and look at what one of the centaurs said back in Book 1 about Mars being bright tonight.” And could that, sort of, redness be what is lighting up the sky.

Eric: Red and Mars and pink and purple and azure – well, azure is blue, but….

Micah: Well, you got the point, I mean.

Eric: No, no, it seems like, if anything would be related to the sky, it would be Book 7. I just don’t know what kind of reference it would be. I mean, we need to – here we are presented with souls and things like that that are very, you know, earthbound or spiritual, and now we are talking about the sky and how that relates to Harry Potter and it is an open-ended question because – I don’t think we know enough. I mean, it just – it could be anything.

A Different Prophecy

Ben: Right. Yeah. Okay, I have a quick question, though, guys. This is related to Book 7, not necessarily the sky or anything on the cover, but something that really wasn’t cleared up that I haven’t really heard much discussion about was in Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix towards the end in the Department of Mysteries, when all of the prophecies get smashed, we hear one prophecy that was, like, an old man saying, “At the solstice will come a new,” and this lady who says, “And none will come after,” and it’s in italicized font. Now, do you guys have any thoughts on what that is? I mean I know it’s unrelated, but…

Jamie: We talked about this….

Lara: Yeah, we did talk about it a while back….

Jamie: We talked about how it could be the book because it was talking about Book 7 and….

Ben: Right.

Jamie: …. and the summer solstice. Actually, Micah, didn’t…

Ben: The summer solstice is on June 21st, not July.

Jamie: Sorry? Oh no, I know. But….

Ben: The summer solstice is June 21st….

Jamie: Micah, you had a theory….

Ben: ….Order of the Phoenix was June 21st.

Jamie:….didn’t you? About it being October or December? Something like that? Just to completely put you on the spot here.

Micah: No, I don’t think, didn’t she release the date on the winter solstice? Or she released something.

Jamie: Yes, she did, that’s it, yeah. November 21st, wasn’t it?

Micah: No, December.

Ben: Right, but don’t you think it’s actually going to play a role in the series rather than it being a thing that happened in real life, like, the book was announced on that day?

Eric: Well, it doesn’t have to. But, I mean, Laura, when you were talking about specific dates and specific times of days, I was thinking about Halloween, you know, All Hallow’s Eve, the one day of the year when all of the souls can come back. It’s just that kind of similar idea.

Laura: I don’t know. I just always found it somewhat interesting. I think that there is an emphasis put on specific times of the year and what might be going on during those days because, for instance, in the prophecy, it talks about Harry being born as the seventh month dies while if you think about Voldemort he is born as the year dies, December 31st. So…

Eric: A lot of death and birth in life.

Laura: Yeah, yeah.

Jamie: That does tend to happen.

Eric: Yeah.

[Everyone laughs]

Laura: Not necessarily in that order.

Back to the Sky

Micah: Do you guys think – the sun does appear to be setting. I know Andrew brought this up before, but in the U.S. edition it appears to be fully in the sky, so can we….

Andrew: It does?

Micah: You don’t think so?

Andrew: Well, you can’t see it.

Micah: I mean, it appears to be completely lit, I mean, there is light on a lot of it whereas here, it almost looks like it – this scene is taking place after what happened previously.

Andrew: Right ,because the top of this sky is a purplish blue, whereas that cover is full yellow, yeah.

Micah: Right. Could they be returning to that sort of portal area that’s on the U.K. edition? Do you think they’re going back to that?

Jamie: Maybe, yeah.

Laura: You know what this reminds me of? I don’t know how many of you have seen the third Pirates of the Caribbean yet….

Micah: No.

Eric: Oh god, Laura. You raved about this. You raved about it and I raved against it.

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: Don’t spoil it, don’t spoil it.

Eric: It’s just a bad topic amongst MuggleCasters.

Laura: It’s very, very cool. It’s very, very cool.They have this thing when they are coming back from the world of the dead.

Jamie: Don’t spoil it. Don’t spoil it, please.

Laura: Oh, fine.

Eric: Which they ripped off from every single movie and….

Laura: Oh, get over it, fine. But if you have seen it, well, I don’t want to spoil it for Jamie.

Micah: Okay.

Laura: But if you’ve seen the movie, you understand about sunrise and sunset. It’s very cool, but anyway.

Andrew: So, even if it is a dragon – well….

Jamie: It probably is. It looks exactly like one.

[Laura laughs]

Why Are They Flying?

Andrew: So, no matter what kind of dragon it is, what is the purpose of them flying on the dragon to begin with?

Micah: Getting away to wherever they are going.

Eric: They needed some air.

Ben: To go somewhere, obviously.

Andrew: Obviously, it’s moving. That’s like saying, why are they in bed? They’re asleep. We did get an email from Sarah, 19, of Chicago. She says,

“Reading the comments…”

Jamie: Sarah – that’s such a beautiful name.

Andrew: Yeah.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: “Reading the comments, I found a few things that people looked over for cover of the deluxe edition. First of all, the town below may be Hogsmeade or Godric’s Hollow, but it also be Little Hangleton or some other place of importance to Voldemort.”

But here is the more interesting part that I wanted to read in the first place.

“Secondly, why the dragon? The trio is of age. Why not Apparate? My first guess would be that Hogwarts must be involved, since you are not able to Apparate to or from the castle. If this is so, then the village below could very well be Hogsmeade. Gringotts could also make sense, since we know it is a high security location, much like Hogwarts.”

Laura: Well, you know what that makes me think of? Doesn’t the Ministry have some sort of regulation on Apparition?

Eric: Ummm, they also have regulations on dragons, but it’s – it’s – you…

Laura: Yeah, but if you steal a dragon, they can’t track it.

Eric: Well, nobody said that they steal it, or anything. I mean…

Jamie: They can, Laura.

Eric: Well, I think – I think that you…

Jamie: They implant them with barchips, and stuff…

Eric: You guys should think about…

Laura: I don’t think they’re putting [laughs]

Eric: Okay. You guys should think about the other uses of a dragon. Cause, I mean, Harry could have – okay. Harry could use – what? Buckbeak? He could have used – they could all be flying on a hippogriff – which would be a boring cover because we’ve already seen it, but there are so many ways…

Laura: That could be pretty cramped, though.

Eric: …Harry can travel. Apparation…

Micah: Broomstick.

Eric: …broomsticks, hippogriffs…

Jamie: Floo powder…

Eric: You…

Ben: And once again…

Jamie: Aeroplane…

Ben: And once again, remember J.K. Rowling doesn’t put things into the series for no reason, and we continually hear about the 12 uses of dragon’s blood, yet we don’t know what the 12 uses are.

Eric: Yeah, but guys – no, what I’m saying is there must be other benefits to have them on a dragon in the cover. Okay? There must be other reasons that they’re flying on a dragon. Maybe they need it for protection or defense from wherever they’re going, or wherever they’re heading from. Ummm…

Andrew: What…

Eric: …the dragon’s…

Andrew: Whatever it is, it’s an important reason, because Arthur Levine specifically asked Marie GrandPre to put it on the cover. Just a little tidbit, there. I mean, maybe he just thought it was a cool scene, granted, but…

Ben: I don’t think it’s a scene…

Laura: Mmmm. I think it is significant…

Ben: …I think it’s an arms race. [laughs] Aha ha!

Laura: …definitely…

[After a pause, Andrew and Laura pretend to laugh]

Eric: Oooh! That’s funny.

Andrew: I’m not a shoulder to cry…

Laura: Speaking of which…

Andrew: …on, but I digress.

Laura: …all the Fall Out Boy fans are…

Jamie: Dying right now.

Laura: …very unhappy with me…

Jamie: Why?

Laura: …over the comment I made last week, where I…

Jamie: What did you say?

Laura: Where I said their little band was stupid, but…

The Trio’s Appearane

Andrew: It kind of seems like there’s a lot of emphasis being placed on Hermione’s cloak. Because it’s the only one that’s sticking up, and…

Ben: It’s a Horcrux, I bet.

Andrew: …you know, Harry’s is being blown back…

[Jamie laughs]

Andrew: Yeah. Harry’s is being blown back. Ron’s is being blown back, but Hermione’s is just up.

Laura: Yeah, but she is also lying down.

Andrew: Is she?

Laura: Yeah. Look at her.

Andrew: I guess. I have my brightness turned down…

Laura: You can see – yeah…

Andrew: My eyes are killing me. But…

Ben: Tattered – it’s tattered.

Andrew: But, still, the cloak wouldn’t be blowing up! I guess. It is tattered. It just seems like there is extra emphasis. Whatever. They’re all just got out of something, and the dragon saved the day. Micah, any final thoughts?

Micah: No. I mean, I think we did a pretty good job. I’m sure we’ll get plenty of e-mails.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Plenty of e-mails. More information will come. Maybe somebody – a certain someone, Micah, might acknowledge that we got it right away, the Opaleye thing. You reckon?

Micah: Yeah. J.K. Rowling…

Eric: Yeah, maybe…

Micah: …e-mail us, please.

MuggleCast 94 Transcript (continued)

Make The Connection

Andrew: [laughs] All right, Jamie, do you want to bring back a segment you, uhhh…?

Jamie: So – no, no. This is one that I am quite fond of. It’s “Make The Connection”, where I give you Harry Potter and then something, and you have to lightning-fast make a connection between them.

Eric: Oh, I love that.

Jamie: And…

Andrew: Start with Ben, because I don’t think Ben’s done this…

Jamie: You haven’t done this yet, Ben? Well, no. I will start off with Laura, because she’s done it before, so she knows, you know…

Andrew: Oh okay.

Ben: No…

Jamie: I don’t think you…

Ben: …I’ve done it before. I’ve…

Jamie: Oh yeah. You have Ben, yeah.

Ben: You told me Harry Potter and Braveheart. That was mine…

Jamie: Oh, of course.

Ben: …That was mine…

Jamie: That was it. Yeah. And you hadn’t seen Braveheart, so you did a pretty good job. Okay Ben, yours is – now, you have to listen very carefully, because this is a specific one: Harry Potter and the banker from Deal or No Deal. Go!

Ben: Oh, my gosh! They are both a little bit full of themselves…

[Andrew laughs]

Ben: …because Harry’s – because you see in Book 5, Harry is really upset that Ron gets made Prefect and he is not, and the guy in Deal or No Deal is, you know, he’s kind of an arrogant jerk, so they share similar…

Eric: They both have Voldemort’s soul…

Ben: …qualities there. Ummm, they both give away lots of money, because Harry gives away money to Fred and George, and – yeah.

Andrew: That’s good.

Ben: That’s all I can think of.

Andrew: That’s pretty good.

Jamie: I like that. I like that. Okay. Laura…

Laura: Mhm.

Jamie: …yours is the annoyance caused when your light bulb burns out just when you have to do something important. Come on, it’s an easy one. I’m going easy on you. [laughs]

Laura: [laughs] Ummm…

Ben: Oh, come on! Harry needs light to do his homework when he’s at Privet Drive.

Jamie: Yeah, come on Laura! Come on!

Eric: No, he uses wand light.

Jamie: Come on!

Andrew: That’s not really a connection.

Laura: Well…

Eric: He uses wand light for them.

Laura: Yeah, he uses wand light. [lets out a frustrated sigh]

Ben: Yeah, but he can’t do magic outside of school.

[Eric laughs]

Laura: I don’t know. You…

Ben: It’s okay, though.

Laura: You really have to go to the bathroom when you’re reading Harry Potter

[Jamie laughs]

Laura: …but you can’t, because it’s so intriguing, that you just can’t get up and go, so it’s annoying.

Jamie: Yeah! That…

Laura: I don’t know.

Jamie: …that’s, that’s acceptable. I liked it.

Ben: Have any of you guys ever read Harry Potter on the pot?

Eric: No. Sorry. Missed that.

[Jamie and Laura laugh]

Ben: No. I mean, not the “crapper” or the “john”…

Jamie: Oh, of course! Yeah.

Ben: Not the “pot.”

Jamie: I keep all six books…

Ben: The other type of pot.

Jamie: …in the toilet… [laughs]

[Micah laughs]

Jamie: …so I can just go in and pick one up.

Eric: [laughs] Yeah, yeah…

Ben: You have a shelf right next to your…

Jamie: No, I do.

Ben: …shitter?

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: I do. It’s the perfect toilet reading…

Eric: Wait, Jamie, I’ve seen your…

Jamie: …apart from a catalogue from the department store. That’s awesome.

Eric: We’ve seen…

[Micah laughs]

Eric: …your bathroom. We’ve seen your loo. I haven’t seen…

Jamie: You have, you have. Well, no. I’ve left that house now, because I’ve left Durham, but…

Eric: Oh, your home house? Yeah, yeah. Okay.

Jamie: I’m there now as well, yeah. Okay, Micah, you ready for yours?

Micah: Sure.

Jamie: Harry Potter and Freddy Krueger. Do you know who he is?

Micah: I do know who he is. Well, Harry seems to have a lot of nightmares throughout the entire series, and Freddy Krueger is well-known for showing into people’s dreams after they fall asleep and trying to kill them. And they’re both big movie stars.

[Eric laughs]

Micah: Sorry, I can’t do anything other than that.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: No, that was really, really good.

Jamie: They’re both serial killers, too.

Micah: Oh, really?

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: Yeah, and they’re both – okay, Andrew. That was good…

Eric: Uh, Jamie, wait.

Jamie: …Andrew, yours – yes?

Eric: Sorry, sorry. It’s Andrew’s.

Jamie: Andrew, yours – huh? Okay. Andrew, yours is eBay.

Andrew: eBay? Well, you never know – Harry never knows what he’s going to run into next…

[Jamie laughs]

Andrew: …in all of his adventures. And you never know what you’re really going to find on eBay. And, ummm – let’s see what else. What’s eBay’s slogan? Something simple. I can’t remember.

Jamie: “Buy it, sell it, love it,” isn’t it? Or something like that?

Andrew: Yeah, something like that. But eBay – that’s my only connection. [laughs]

Jamie: A little disappointing, but I’m sure you tried your best.

Andrew: [sighs] Oh, I’ve been up for 20 hours. I’m tired.

Jamie: Okay, yep. That was a good…

Eric: Uh, Jamie?

Eric: …make the connection. And if anyone has any ideas, write – oh, I’m sorry Eric. I’m sorry, I thought – aren’t you going?

Eric: No, no I’m here.

Jamie: I thought you were going. I’m sorry.

Eric: Do you want to…

Jamie: Okay, cool. Okay, fine. Your Name That Connection – sorry, Make The Connection, is Harry Potter and constitutional law and judicial policy making.

Eric: Okay, well…

Jamie: Go!

Eric: …constitutional law and policy making has worked against Harry throughout his schooling, and he’s had many run-ins with the law. And it’s just, they seem to make laws that do not fit anybody in Harry’s situation, who is actually in need of getting stuff done, and in need of – you know, he’s breaking the law, but that just shows that the law is actually not as realistic for any kind of safety or upheaval of it. Harry is – I mean, look at Dolores Umbridge. She went through all the right channels to – or actually she didn’t even – she even broke the law to send the Dementors after Harry, but Harry was faced with the full penalties of the law as a result of just protecting himself. So, the law and Harry don’t really get along. And – yeah.

Jamie: Very good. Very good. Okay, that was a very good Make The Connection. I’m very impressed.

Ben: Good job, Jamie.

Jamie: Thank you Ben, thank you Ben. You, too.

Andrew: Good work.

Jamie: We’ll be back next week with that, hopefully.

Ben: Jamie, you should determine a winner. Whoever makes the best connection wins.

Jamie: Okay.

Ben: You should determine that.

Jamie: I thought that Eric – you put over a very good argument, but I thought that you sort of brought constitutional law and judicial policy making into Harry Potter instead of treating it as two separate fields.

Eric: Ahhh. No, that’s good.

Jamie: If that makes sense.

Eric: That’s very good analysis…

Ben: Oh.

Eric: …I will try and refine myself for a future segment.

Jamie: Thank you.

[Ben laughs]

Jamie: Laura, which one – which one did you do, again?

Laura: I did the annoyance of when a light bulb goes out and you have something to do.

Jamie: Oh, yes, I thought yours was also very, very good. But, again, I didn’t think you treated them as two separate – you know, sort of instances, and you kind of implied a causal connection between them, when I don’t think you can…

Eric: Well, okay, okay.

Jamie: …presuppose that.

Eric: Okay…

[Andrew, Ben and Laura laugh]

Jamie: Ummm…

Ben: The causal connection.

Eric: …Jamie, to be fair I found eBay has a little bit less to do with – it’s a lot easier to treat things as two separate entities when they actually don’t have anything to do with each other. I mean, Freddy Krueger…

Jamie: Oh, well, yeah, but…

Eric: …is slightly different than the…

Jamie: Eric, that’s very true, but…

Eric: …feeling that your arm gets when it falls asleep…

Jamie: Well, yeah…

Eric: …or the white stuff that collects in your mouth when you’re – when you’re cottonmouth.

Jamie: Ben, Ben..

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: Ben, which one did you get, again?

Ben: Me? I did the Deal or No Deal guy.

Jamie: Okay, okay. Micah yours was – yours was…

Eric: Freddy Krueger.

Jamie: …very good as well. Yeah, I thought that Freddy Krueger was excellent because you sort of compared both people. And you… But then although I thought the nightmare reference was good, it was sort of dragging it away from the actual two personas, so you mixed it up a bit. Ben, you are the winner because I thought it was a very good reference, in that you used both of them separately and compared them on their personal character traits. And, although it was a little crude, I think you referred to them both as [imitates Ben] “jackasses”…

[Eric laughs]

Jamie: …I think that it was a good argument, overall…

[Ben and Laura laugh]

Jamie: …and I thought you put forward the case very prospectively and argued…

Eric: So…

Jamie: …argued it well. So…

Ben: Thank you very much.

Eric: So, just to get this clear, Jamie, if I – you wanted us to compare two elements as separate. So, for Freddy Krueger, could we say that, “In the Nightmare on Elm Street series, Freddy Krueger was actually a janitor at the local school, who was a pedophile and they – the parents ganged together and burned him in the incinerator and so he swore revenge on all their children. He’d haunt their nightmares.” That’s the story behind Freddy, so would it be – if I were to say that Harry and Freddy both, you know, parents disapprove of both of them, would that be like – you know?

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: Yes, that’s more so, because…

Laura: Not for the same reason.

Jamie: …if you say that if Harry has nightmares, you’re dragging an aspect of Freddy’s world into him, and then comparing those two. It’s like a fallacy, whereas if you’d said that sort of – because to make that connection you’d have to say that Krueger has nightmares, and so does Harry. If you see what I mean, because then you’re actually physically comparing them. Whereas…

Ben: It’s a post hoc fallacy. [laughs]

Jamie: Yes. See I was going to say straw man, but that’s…

Ben: Sorry

Eric: Okay, so I just think it commends – you know, some of the stuff is – I think that it should be a little more consistent with how difficult it is. To do what you wanted with the Freddy Krueger reference, Micah would have actually had to know the story of Nightmare of Elm Street. And face it, who does?

Jamie: But that’s just – that’s part of it, though. That’s part of it. A good…

Micah: Yeah. It was a close second. A close second.

Jamie: …connection maker would – should be able to think on the spot. So, if you said, you know, make a connection between Braveheart and Harry Potter, you can automatically think you know, well Braveheart is obviously a story about a brave heart – a brave man. Harry Potter is also clearly a brave heart because he battles all these people. So, that’s your first reference.

Ben: Okay, guys I think we spent too much time on this. [laughs]

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: Yeah, I think – I think we’ve got it. [laughs]

The to Deathly Hallows: Who Will Live and Who Will Die?

Micah: Well, two weeks ago we started a little segment called The Road to Deathly Hallows, where we will be taking Scholastic’s questions. We’ll be taking one of their questions, [laughs] each and every week, and discussing them on the show, because we are getting closer to the release of the seventh book. This week the question is, ‘Who will live and who will die?’ We’re going to sort of run through a list here and see what everyone has to say, and if we disagree, we’ll discuss it. So, the first one up, the obvious candidate, is Harry…

Eric: Live. Live.

Ben: Live. Absolutely.

Laura: Live.

Andrew: You know…

[Micah laughs]

Andrew: …I’ve said a lot in the past that I think he will die…

Jamie: You can’t change your mind. Don’t even think about changing your mind.

Andrew: …however, the more I – the more I look at the cover art, you know? The more – clearly Harry and Voldemort are going to be in the final battle at the end of the book. And I know this is back-tracking on everything I’ve ever said – and I still stand by the fact that if Harry died, it would be the best ending ever. However…

Jamie: Apart from it being the worst ending.

Andrew: …I don’t think Jo will kill Harry, because if it’s Harry versus Voldemort in the final battle, it wouldn’t make sense for Voldemort to actually win after the past seven years. [laughs]

Ben: Well, Voldemort wouldn’t have to win though, would he? Couldn’t Harry like…

Andrew: He could kill himself, yeah.

Jamie: Well, the thing is – okay. I was thinking this the other day, what’s the definition of a hero?

Andrew: You know what? We actually have…

Ben: Well, a hero…

Andrew: That’s a good question. We’ve discussed that in [begins to stumble and mispronounce] Engali – Eng – in our English cla – class – I can’t even speak English – a few times.

Eric: Oh, well…

Andrew: And it’s – everyone has different opinions on it. So…

Jamie: And it’s true. And – because you have heroes, legends, myths, you know, saints, martyrs. What’s the difference between a martyr and a hero? I always thought that a hero you can’t – you can’t… To be a hero you obviously have to commit a selfless act. A completely selfless act. But I heard someone say that…

Laura: Well…

Jamie: …the only heroes are dead heroes.

Eric: No, I disagree.

Jamie: You know, you can’t be a hero and still be alive.

Ben: Okay, guys, guys. No, actually I’m reminded of The Sandlot.

Micah: Yeah.

Ben: Have you ever seen The Sandlot?

Micah: I was just thinking of that, actually. [laughs]

Ben: When Babe Ruth comes back and says, [imitates Ruth] “Heroes get remembered, but legends never die, Benny.” And then he runs and jumps over the fence and saves them from the dog. And gets the ball back from the dog.

[Andrew laughs]

Jamie: Yeah, no, yeah. It…

Ben: Sorry.

Jamie: …just depends on your definition, and we’ve been saying the entire time that he’s a hero. So, can he be alive and be a hero? I don’t know.

Laura: Well, I mean…

Ben: Absolutely, yeah.

Laura: …you also have to consider that one person’s hero is another person’s villain. So…

Jamie: Like one man’s terrorist is another person’s freedom fighter.

Ben: One man’s freedom fighter…

Jamie: One man’s…

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: Or one man’s trash is another person’s treasure, blah, blah, blah.

Jamie: Well, I don’t know about that, I mean.

Andrew: Hermione?

Jamie: That’s true.

Andrew: Live.

Jamie: Oh, live, definitely, yeah.

Micah and Ben: Live.

Ben: Yeah.

Micah: Live.

Jamie: She can’t die, just because she can’t. [laughs]

[Andrew laughs]

Ben: She’s too smart.

Andrew: She actually can’t die, Hermione.

Jamie: Very logical argument.

Andrew: Ron? He’s the weak one in the trio.

Jamie: He has to die. He’s got to die, he’s…

Andrew: Yeah…

Jamie: …got to die, because of the whole…

Ben and Laura: No…

Laura: I think he’s going to live.

Ben: I think he will.

Jamie: I’m almost positive…

Ben: I think he’ll make it through, but I think…

Jamie: The world doesn’t work like this…

Ben: Hold a sec, hold a sec.

Eric: Can you get off the trio?

Ben: I think he’s the most vulnerable…

Eric: Can you get off the trio?

Ben: …of the trio.

Andrew: Exactly. Exactly.

Ben: I think he’s the most vulnerable, but I don’t – I think he’ll make it through.

Jamie: But you can’t just be like that…

Ben: Actually, I don’t know.

Andrew: He is the most vulnerable.

Ben: I’m half-and-half.

Andrew: I don’t know. Hmmm, [says in weird voice] Voldemort?

Micah: Dead.

Ben: Dead. He’s a goner.

Laura: Die. [laughs]

Ben: But hold a sec, is he going to die, or is he actually going to discover that something is worse than dying?

Jamie: No, never. He can’t do that. He… It isn’t… It’s like, erm… It’s like, erm… What was I going to say about this? It’s like – I saw a TV series a while ago, where, basically, this one character throughout the entire thing acted in some way, and then throughout the entire series he – the whole story was him trying to turn – you know, people thinking, “Oh, is he going to turn good and do something worthwhile?” And then in the end he does. But then, the final thing is him going back to how he was, and I thought it was a dreadful ending because, you know, when someone – when the thing that people have been waiting for happens, you can’t try and be clever and think, well, it was just a phase and, you know, people are who they are and people live the same lives, and people don’t change.

Ben: No, I wasn’t saying that he was going to repent. I was saying that could it be that he discovers something is worse than death? Like, they take his magic away, or they – or a Dementor…

Jamie: But that’s too…

Ben: …sucks out his soul.

Jamie: That’s too just, and it isn’t the case – wars aren’t a case of being just. It isn’t like, “Do unto him, as…”

Ben: But don’t you – but wouldn’t you agree that Harry Potter‘s going to be, I think it’s going to be happily ever after story.

Jamie: No, it’s not. Yes, it is – it is, but it isn’t going to abandon reality.

Ben: Are you sure, Jamie? Are you sure? Or are you…

Jamie: No, no, I mean…

[Ben laughs]

Jamie: But Ben, it is going to be a happily ever after novel, because it, you know, it kind of has to be, but it can’t be like – they can’t… Well… Uh, damn, I’ve lost my train of thought. One sec. Erm – yeah. It has to be a happily ever after novel, but it can’t be one in which, you know, just – justice and rightfulness happen. Yes, it’s going to – the overall thing is going to be justice and rightfulness.

Eric: Yeah.

Jamie: But people can’t get their come-uppance, and they can’t show that crime doesn’t pay. Because even though she’s writing for children, she’s writing, you know – she’s writing that there’s a war, and wars don’t follow the same rules. So, you know, taking the thing that Voldemort loves most, his power and his immortality, and returning him to a human with no magical powers would be just, because he’s abused his magical powers. So, it makes sense for him not to have any. It would be stupid. It would be like a – you know, a plot thing that doesn’t make sense. Because he has to die, because that’s just, to me, what has to happen.

Laura: Well, not to mention what he fears the most is what he deserves, which is death.

Eric: Eh.

Jamie: Yeah, exactly.

Laura: Because in his perception there is nothing worse than death. So why not give him what he fears most?

Eric: But Laura, does anyone deserve death? Does anyone?

Ben: Well, yeah, but maybe the fact that Dumbledore – maybe the fact the fact that Dumbledore keeps telling, reminding him that there is something worse than death means that he has it coming.

Eric: Well, I think that if Voldemort were turned into a muggle – and this is just my comment. If Voldemort were turned into a muggle, he would die from just not having a nose.

Jamie: Yes, he couldn’t breathe.

Andrew: Now, Hagrid? Hagrid, I think, is too lovable, too innocent to die.

Ben: That’s – that’d be more reason for them to die.

Andrew: And for Jo to kill, for Jo to kill…

Ben: Too naive.

Jamie: And he’s so tough as well. He’s so tough. He’s kind of like me.

Ben: Yeah…

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: Hagrid is like Jamie.

Laura: Yeah, Jamie.

Ben: Hagrid’s going to live.

Eric: When I think Rubeus Hagrid, I think Jamie Lawrence.

Jamie: Me, too – I mean…

Eric: Jamie, maybe if you…

Jamie: He’s stacked, I’m stacked.

Eric: [laughs] Maybe if you really like Chick-Fil-A.

Andrew: Ginny?

Jamie: Oh, who cares? Sorry, that was dreadful, but…

Eric: Oh, whoa, whoa.

Jamie: …in the grand scheme of things…

Eric: …what is up with that Ginny hatred?

Laura: I – you know what?

Jamie: It’s not Ginny hatred. It’s just that she’s – I saw Harry casting her off at the end of Half-Blood Prince as a kind of Jo’s way of saying, “Yes, you are damn important…”

Micah: Yeah.

Jamie: “…but you can’t – you don’t have a place in the final book.” And she is important, but I’ve always seen her as a secondary character. And even though she got more important, obviously…

Micah: Yeah.

Laura: Mhm.

Jamie: …with Harry’s lustful behavior towards her, you know?

Laura: Here’s what I think, though. Kind of to continue on what Jamie was talking about about her importance, I think the only way she could become more important is if she died.

Eric: No.

Andrew: Ummm, yeah.

Eric: There are a lot of people who are more significant.

Laura: I’m saying that the only Ginny could become more important as a character is if she died, because we’ve already seen her progress to the point where we’re not going to see anymore character development from her. We know that she’s, you know, gotten out of being shy. We know that she…

Eric: What is it with you people?!

Laura: …is tough and we know that she’s not afraid to share her feelings to Harry.

Eric: There’s nothing more in this character unless they die?

Laura: No, I just don’t think that we…

Eric: They can’t serve the plot unless they die?

Laura: No, I don’t think so. What…

Jamie: Eric, that’s absolutely right. That’s absolutely right because this whole thing is like a scale. Yeah, but no, but wait. It’s like a scale, you know. People – it’s a dreadful thing to say, but wars are measured in terms of casualties as well as, you know, who wins and who loses. As – and I’m sure this isn’t a great quote, but Stalin said, “One death is a tragedy, but a million deaths is a statistic.” And it’s a dreadful thing to say, and it isn’t true, but in terms of some things, it is true. Whereas in this war there are…

Eric: I understand people have to die.

Jamie: …people have to die to fulfill the – you know, it being a war. And – and there are some people, secondary characters, who have fulfilled their purpose and now…

Ben: Like who? You think Ginny’s a goner?

Jamie: No, no, no, I wouldn’t be surprised if she died, but people – and I probably shouldn’t say this in case he plays a huge part in the next book or something, but Bill Weasley, after his wedding, I don’t think we’re going to see him again.

Andrew: Yeah.

Jamie: I don’t think he’s as important – he’s important enough to, you know?

Laura: Yeah, I don’t think so either.

Jamie: You know, the wedding is one part of it, but other than that I don’t see what he can do now. It’s Harry’s fight, after all, and although he’s going to have his very, very close friends with him…

Eric: Well, the Harry Potter books have this large – so many characters, so, so, so many characters that all have to have some kind of a hand in the war. I think – what’s the point in having a man who’s commander of the Navy if he doesn’t command the Navy? What I’m saying is they don’t need to die just to serve the plot. They can be in different positions in government and all have a say in what exactly goes on. You know what I’m saying? They don’t need to die just to serve the plot.

Laura: But some of them do have to die.

Eric: No, I understand. Nobody’s debating that. I’m saying – you’re saying that J.K. – you’re saying that Ginny’s only purpose for the plot is to die now because – because she’s developed as a character.

Laura: No, I’m not saying that. I’m saying…

Ben: But she isn’t a minor character, that’s the thing.

Laura: No, I’m not saying that, though.

Ben: She’s becoming the fourth member of the trio. The quatro.

Eric: Well, that’s like…

Ben: Because…

Laura: See, what I’m saying is if – if we’re going to see anything major from Ginny in the next book it’s going to be that she dies, because what else could she do?

Ben: Dumbledore told Harry that he can’t go it alone, and at the end of Half-Blood Prince we see he tries to break up with Ginny or whatever you want to call it, but they’re obviously still going to be together. And if he’s fallen for her like it appears he has, her dying would be leaving it. It would absolutely devastate him, so I don’t think – I don’t think she will die. I think she’ll make it through along with Harry.

Andrew: Yeah.

Ben: And have lots of babies.

Laura: I don’t know. I was…

Andrew: Well, we were – Jamie and I were actually discussing at the live podcast in England that, you know, if Ginny does die or Ginny is threatened by, say, Voldemort, that could be one of Harry’s leading factors in wanting to kill Voldemort or someone else.

Jamie: Yeah. Like, like, like…

Ben: He could use it as motivation, yeah. I think he already has that. I mean, he killed his parents. Come on now. That should be enough right there.

Jamie: What I think what we mean is like there has to – some crimes aren’t premeditated and, although this is, obviously, then you know there are always things that can spark off one type of, you know, emotion that then overpowers you and does it. Like, in law there’s a thing, Mens rea, which is to be guilty of a crime, your mind has to be guilty as well. So like one defense is that, “I don’t know what happened. I completely blanked out.”

Ben: Insanity.

Jamie: Anger of the moment. Sorry? Yeah, well, no, no, no, it isn’t insanity. It’s just saying that you weren’t responsible for your own actions. It’s isn’t a mental illness as a defense, it’s just…

Ben: So what if you’re – if you’re drunk?

Jamie: No, that isn’t an acceptable defense.

Ben: What if you were on – what if you were on acid? What if you were on ‘shrooms?

Jamie: No, no, no, that isn’t it. It’s like the criteria is that if a person – if a normal human being placed in the same situation, would they commit it?

Ben: Oh, so it was done in the spur of the moment, that type of thing?

Jamie: Yeah. It’s like…

Ben: Okay, I see what you mean.

Jamie: It’s like if somebody raped your daughter, would any human being kill them, kill the person who did it? And if yes, than you aren’t guilty of that crime because any normal human being would do it. And I’ve completely lost what we were talking about, but…

Andrew: Ginny.

Jamie: Oh yeah, Ginny’s thing, yeah. If Harry – I mean I would find it, most people would find it very hard to kill, but, and even if your background, you’re so against someone, the actual act of killing – you know, as Dumbledore says, killing is harder than the innocent believe. And even if your background is so bad, doing it – actually doing it could be a lot, lot more difficult. So, you know, if he kills Ginny right in front of his eyes, he could be so angry that he can actually do what, perhaps, he couldn’t do if he wasn’t suitably enraged. So…

Ben: Right.

Jamie: …perhaps it could just be the catalyst that sparks him off, and…

Laura: Yeah, and, also…

Jamie: …leads to death.

Laura: …she’s not just going to kill off characters that aren’t going to affect Harry.

Jamie: Exactly, yeah.

Andrew: Mmhm.

Laura: There would be no point.

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah, that’s a good point.

Jamie: Mark Evans dies and he flies into a rake.

Eric: Oh, oh, so she has to kill a bunch of characters that are all close to Harry? Look, she’s already done her killing. Can she just get on with the fact that he needs to go against Voldemort and all his friends are actually – you know, can – this isn’t a book about death. J.K. has written and illustrated too many brilliant characters just to kill them all off.

Andrew: Mmmm.

Laura: Well, she said so, herself…

Eric: There would be a large celebration…

Laura: …that here are going to be more deaths, sorry. [laughs]

Andrew: Well, yeah. More than two deaths…

Ben: Of course there are going to be more deaths…

Eric: Oh, she’s just scaring us…

Ben: …but that doesn’t mean people have to die for the sake of dying. Come on, now.

Andrew: No. Well, ummm…

Laura: Yeah, but there would be no point…

Eric: That’s bull.

Laura: …in killing people if they weren’t important to Harry.

Andrew: Yeeeaah.

Laura: There’s…

Ben: Right.

Andrew: Well…

Ben: Not necessarily. Not necessarily.

Eric: Yes, there’s tons of reasons to kill people…

Ben: Okay, so how is Amelia Bones…

Eric: …if they aren’t important to Harry…

Ben: …important to Harry?

Eric: She’s a…

Laura: We’re not talking about…

Eric: …you know?

Laura: …mentioned deaths. We’re talking about deaths we’re actually going to see or encounter, or…

Ben: But it…

Laura: …that Harry’s going to have to deal with emotionally.

Andrew: Guys, let’s…

Ben: Not necessarily.

Andrew: Let’s…

Eric: How many can there possibly be?

Andrew: Hold on, hold on, hold on. Let’s stop it at this point because we’re at an hour-and-a-half, and obviously we can continue this next week.

Eric: Good idea.

Andrew: Because, you know, this is…

Jamie: I’m going to play pool.

Andrew: …this is way more than a…

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: I want to go to bed. This is way more than a…

Eric: Jamie, I wish I were there to play pool.

Andrew: This is a main discussion. Okay, so we will wrap it up. We will leave it at that for today, and we’ll continue discussing who will live and who will die in…

Jamie: Can we…

Andrew: …Book 7…

Jamie: Can I…

Andrew: …next week, on Episode 95.

Jamie: …also just say, it’s been playing on my mind for awhile – well, for the last 40 minutes. I’m… [laughs] I didn’t actually mean what I was saying at the beginning about Sarah. I just do those rants for the sake of it, to be honest. So, I wasn’t actually angry at all.

Andrew: It was a joke. People get it’s a joke…

Jamie: I know, I know…

Andrew: …because then I told you the P.S.

[Music begins to play]

Jamie: I know, I know, but, you know, I feel guilty. So…

Andrew: Well, people know…

Eric: It was done very well.

Jamie: I wasn’t being mean, even before I heard the P.S. I was just joking, so [in a small voice] please don’t hate me.

Show Close

Andrew: Okay, so Laura let’s remind everyone about the contact information before we wrap it up today.

Laura: [laughs] That’ll be

P.O. Box 3151
Cumming, Georgia

Andrew: If you want to leave a voicemail question for us, you can also dial the MuggleCast phone numbers. We have 1-218-20-MAGIC, if you’re in the United States. If you’re in the UK, you can dial 020-8144-0677, and if you’re in Australia, you can dial 02-8003-5668.

You can also Skype the username “MuggleCast”. Just try to keep your message under a minute long.

You can also visit for a handy feedback form, where you can contact any one of us, or just use our first name at staff dot mugglenet dot com.

Jamie: You missed out – you missed something out very important.

Andrew: If…?

Jamie: No, no. And eliminate as much background noise as possible.

Andrew: Oh. Yeah, I’m done with that, because most people do it, anyway. Yeah, so we’ll try to get back to voicemails soon. There’s just a lot of segments that we – you know, we’re trying to do right now, and they often take up a lot of time. So, you know?

You can – Don’t forget about the community outlets. MySpace, Facebook, YouTube, Frappr, Last.FM, Fanlisting/Forums.

I think that is just about it for this week’s show. Once again, I’m Andrew Sims.

Ben: I’m Ben Schoen.

Jamie: I’m Jamie Lawrence.

Eric: I’m Eric Scull.

Laura: I’m Laura Thompson.

Micah: And I’m Micah Tannenbaum.

Andrew: We’ll see everyone next week for Episode 95. Wow. Bye everyone.

Ben: Bye.

Jamie: Buh-bye.

Laura: Bye.

[Music ends]

Andrew’s Wizard Rock Single

Andrew: [clears his throat] Your attention, please.

[Music from *NSYNC’s “Bye Bye Bye” starts to play]

Andrew: This message goes out to a Miss J.K. Rowling.

[begins to rap]

Don’t let it be July.

Mmmmmmmmm no.

Not July, not July, not July, don’t let it be July. Here we go.

We are hearing this tonight
You’re probably gonna start a fight
I know this can’t be right
Hey, Rowling, come on!

I loved endlessly
When the books were spread out freely
So now it’s time to hear
Some of your most loyal fans.

Background vocals: I know that I can…

Andrew: Wait a little more, it ain’t no lie
I wanna see you delay that book
Don’t let it be July

Don’t wanna be a fool for you
Just another book in your series for clues
You may hate me, but it ain’t no lie
Don’t let it be July.
Don’t really wanna make it tough
I just wanna tell you that I’ve not had enough.
It might sound crazy, but it ain’t no lie
Don’t let it be July.

All right, don’t get it yet?

All right, let’s break it down.
This may be reminiscent of my MuggleCast rap
Was my number one single, now don’t forget
Listen up Jo, baby come on
I want this book a little later
And so does each and every fan
That believes the book will be

Background vocals: Better

Andrew: Once you’ve got more time

Background vocals: I know that I can’t take no more
It ain’t no lie.
I wanna see you…

Andrew: Delay that book, don’t let it be July

Don’t wanna be a fool for you
Just another book in your series for clues
You may hate me, but it ain’t no lie
Don’t let it be July.
Don’t really wanna make it tough
I just wanna tell you that I’ve not had enough.
It might sound crazy, but it ain’t no lie
Don’t let it be July.

Ugh, you know what? Forget it!

I’m giving up, I know for sure
I don’t want to be the reason for next year no more
I’m checking out, I’m signing off
The fandom will be over and I’ve had enough

Jo, I – I don’t want to be a fool
In this series for clues
So you know what?
I’m leaving you, Jo, behind

Background vocals: I don’t wanna make it tough

Andrew: Don’t wanna make it tough, please

Background vocals: But I’ve had enough.

Andrew: Jo, please, Jo

Background vocals: And it ain’t no lie.

Andrew: Not July

Background vocals: Don’t wanna be a fool for you
Just another player in your game for two

Andrew: Book 7, please
July 2008, July 2008

Background vocals: Bye bye bye bye bye bye

Andrew: Don’t really wanna make it tough
I just wanna tell you that I’ve not had enough
Might sound crazy, but it ain’t no lie

Background vocals: Bye bye bye

Andrew: Don’t let it be July!

[Music ends]


Micah: That’s all the news for this – what’s the date? I don’t even know.

Andrew: [in the background] Then say – then say, “Enough said.”

Jamie: Oh, that’s so American. I can’t say that. Okay, go on then. Okay, um – no, I want to do something else. Um, erm – what do you want me to say?

Andrew: Enough said!

Jamie: Enough said, Andrew!

Andrew: No, that’s way too loud.

Jamie: Okay – no, that was good. Okay.

Andrew: Shut up, I don’t want to talk to you!

Jamie: [laughs] Enough said, Andrew.

Andrew: No, just say, “Enough said.”