MuggleCast 102 Transcript
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Andrew: Today’s MuggleNet podcast is brought to you by Borders. In May, thousands of Harry Potter fans descended upon New Orleans for the Phoenix Rising conference. Borders was there to take in the sites and share a lively discussion of the series that has bewitched the world with some of Harry’s most dedicated fans. Listen in and watch the action yourself; check out the Phoenix Rising Borders Book Club discussion at BordersMedia.com/HarryPotter, or click on the Borders banner at the top of the MuggleNet page.
[Intro music begins to play]
Andrew: Because MuggleCast has hit the road, this is MuggleCast Episode 102 for July 28th, 2007, live from Tulsa, Oklahoma and St. Louis, Missouri.
[Intro music continues to play]
Live From Tulsa
Andrew: How’s everyone doing today?
Andrew: Welcome to MuggleCast live here in Tulsa. This is a huge crowd, thank you everyone for coming out. Round of applause for yourselves.
Ben: A bit of a spoiler – whoa.
Ben: Bit of a spoiler warning, if you haven’t read the book, that’s what we’re going to talk about, and yesterday in Santa Fe, we made some guy really mad. So…
Andrew: He stormed out. He was mumbling something. He was like… [grumbling noise]
Mikey: So, yeah.
Jamie: If you don’t want to get spoiled, leave now.
Andrew: Anyway, yeah. Actually, we have one. Sorry.
Mikey: We’re sorry. We’re talking about Book Seven; it came
Ben: Yeah, so, Dumbledore made all those Horcruxes.
Mikey: Definitely come back for Alex here, and The Remus Lupins, because they’re pretty awesome.
Andrew: But there’s a few things we want to talk about today. Anyone been catching up on the news lately? There’s been a lot of Book 7 developments in the news. I check MuggleNet when I want my news. That’s where I go.
Mikey: That’s where I go.
Andrew: But, a couple big things. First of all we found out the character who got – who was saved. The reprieve.
Ben: The reprieve.
Mikey: The reprieve.
Andrew: The reprieve, Arthur Weasley. Arthur Weasley.
Mikey: He didn’t die. He lived, which was good.
Andrew: Was slated to die…
Jamie: But even more so , he was supposed to be killed in Book 5 wasn’t he?
Andrew: Right. Yeah.
Jamie: Rather than Book 7, which is interesting.
Andrew: And I think Jo said that she decided not to kill him off because Harry had already lost a father figure.
Ben: Like ten of them.
Andrew: Yeah. Well, quite a few of them.
Lupin and Tonks
Andrew: So, that was a big deal. Then, then we found out the two characters who weren’t slated to die, but then died. Tonks and our buddy…
Mikey: Remus, over there. Remus and Tonks.
Andrew: Remus Lupin had…
Jamie: Two of the most pointless deaths in the history of the books probably, completely.
Ben and Mikey: They didn’t even have a death scene.
Mikey: They didn’t even have a scene where it was, like, they died.
Andrew: Yeah, does anyone have an idea for why Jo would’ve done that?
Jamie: Because she’s…
Andrew: Go ahead. Wow!
Jamie: I was going to say mean, but thought better of it.
Ben: Yeah, because I think things had to look a little more balanced because it’s like, all the bad guys died. So you got to throw in a few good guys.
Jamie: But they didn’t even get a death scene, it was just – they just said, she just said that they died, that was it.
Ben: There weren’t enough pages. I don’t know.
Jamie: Yeah, she ran out.
Ben: She couldn’t be bothered to think of a way to…
Mikey: Even Hedwig got a death scene, and…
Mikey: I guess Hedwig is a little bit more important than Remus, huh Alex?
Jamie: Yeah, she must…
Mikey: He’s not even in here for me to make fun of him.
Andrew: Was everyone very surprised with the Hedwig death? That was…
Mikey: I was sad.
Andrew: That was a very – that was the very first one. Everyone was like, “What? It’s so innocent.” So, it’s sad.
Jamie: But I think , it’s a bit weird to call it the Hedwig death, because, I mean, I care about animals and I have pets, but it isn’t really on the same scale as Tonks and Lupin and all those people. Well, I’m sorry. I guess I’m cold-hearted then, that must be it completely. But, you know.
Ben: What about your cat, Jamie? What if your cat died?
Jamie: If my cat died, I don’t think I’d leave my room for months. I’d be so upset.
Jamie: That’s no joke, but it is just an owl in a book.
Jamie: Ok. I’m alone here, I know, so I’m just going to be quiet.
Mikey: Well, moving on.
Dobby and Voldemort
Andrew: Ben, any other deaths that you were surprised by or you were happy with? Dobby was probably – sorry, I do have to say, Dobby was probably the saddest death.
Mikey: It was. A tear-jerker, definitely a tear-jerker.
Ben: What about Voldemort? Poor Voldemort.
Andrew: Poor Voldemort. [laughs]
Ben: No, think about it, though. I mean, for seven – for all these years, he has all this, these elaborate plots to kill Harry and then he overlooks one, tiny little thing whereas Harry just always shows up on the spot, throws up an Expelliarmus and lucks out.
Jamie: We keep having this talk and Ben comes out with all these reason why Voldemort should be forgiven, because he isn’t really mean, and he just planned all these things, you know, for 13 years. And, you know, for every year he’s been planning these things, he’s been in hiding, and then Harry, as you say, thwarts him with an Expelliarmus, or with Hermione clutching his hand at the last minute. But then, I always point out that, Ben, he did – he has murdered hundreds of thousands of people, which kind of puts a downer on his good side.
Ben: No, I’m not saying he’s good. I’m just saying that he deserves a lot more credit than he’s given.
Ben: So, but, okay, in the book, and I think Mikey would agree with me, we got to give it up for Molly Weasley. I mean seriously, give it up for Molly Weasley.
Mikey: I know, seriously. It’s like we just had Ginny up here, and it’s like Bellatrix throws this curse at Ginny and she’s – Molly Weasley, just comes charging, you know the cloak goes flying off and she’s like, “GET AWAY FROM MY DAUGHTER, YOU…” witch. It’s still a children’s podcast, so we replace the ‘b’ with ‘w.’
Andrew: Try to keep it PG.
[Andrew and Mikey laugh]
JKR Interview with Today Show
Andrew: There’s some other things we found out. J.K. Rowling did this interview with The Today Show, with what’s-her-name. I was going to say Katie Couric, now I’m forgetting the new – Meredith Viera – formerly of The View. Anyway, she said – J.K. Rowling revealed some of the jobs that the trio are now involved in. Harry and Ron…
Mikey: They redefine the Auror Department.
Ben: No, they utterly revolutionize the Auror Department.
Andrew: They utterly revolutionized the department.
Mikey: They’re the hotshots. They’re the “to go” team.
Andrew: Then – Jamie?
Jamie: I was just going to say, I can’t see Ron as an Auror, really.
Andrew: No, me neither. Everyone…
Jamie: Is that just my opinion or is anyone else agreed on that?
Andrew: Yeah, everyone was predicting just Harry.
Jamie: He would be fighting security trolls or something like that, whereas Harry would be the one to be on the front line.
Andrew: Yeah, and then Hermione, pretty high up in the Department of Magical Law Enforcement. So, they’re all working in the Ministry now.
Mikey: It’s a new Ministry.
Jamie: Yeah, definitely not.
Mikey: Not the old one with corruption and bad stuff.
Andrew: So, I guess we’re going to see all this explained in more detail in the epilogue – sorry, the encyclopedia.
Mikey: That’s coming out, yeah.
Andrew: Jo also confirmed what happens.
Mikey: Harry Potter 8: The Encyclopedia.
Andrew: She wouldn’t give a time frame, but Jo said she would probably take her time on it. She says she has it all laid out because she has all these notes…huh?
Jamie: A few years? 2010? Maybe 2011?
Andrew: Well, I think that’s a…
Mikey: Well that way, she can just give it out to us at the theme park, you know? We all just walk in and it’s like, “Here’s your encyclopedia.” It would be kind of fun.
Ben: But what about…
Mikey: Let’s go hunt for stuff and find the Horcruxes.
Ben: The real question is, you know, say she waits five years, how many of you would be lined up at a bookstore to get it?
Andrew: Do you think there’s going to be a midnight release for the encyclopedia? I guess…
Mikey: That’d be really cool.
Ben: Why not?
Mikey: That would be crazy.
Andrew: I don’t know, I just always pictured Book 7 as being the last one.
Jamie: People still call it Book Eight, you know, the one afterwards.
Andrew: I guess so.
Jamie: I don’t know, I think so.
Andrew: And then Neville got a job at Hogwarts. He’s the Herbology teacher.
Andrew: Professor of Herbology. So, everyone’s happy. These are all the predictions that everyone had sort of assumed, at least for Harry and Neville, and J.K. Rowling confirmed it. Also, let’s just run through a couple more, quickly. Luna Lovegood, she, hold on, I think that Luna, she said…
Ben: She basically realized that her dad isn’t all he seems to be, I don’t know, something like that.
Andrew: Rowling calls her a “naturalist.” Whatever the Wizarding equivalent of that is.
Jamie: A naturalist?
Mikey: She would travel the world, and, you know, finding different plants…
Jamie: With no shoes on, and just walk around in one of those…
Mikey: Yeah. And she’d come up and be like, “They’re called Threstrals.”
Mikey: And no – hold on, I’m not done yet – she’ll have no shoes on and throw meat to them. And, it works.
Mikey: I’m sorry, I apologize. That was really bad.
Driving and Dumbledore
Andrew: One thing we also wanted to discuss today was Dumbledore. We wanted to have a little main discussion on Dumbledore.
Andrew: And Jamie…
Jamie: Well, we’ve been talking about him. We’ve been driving a long way. Every day we’ve done sort of, six hour stints, and four hour stints, and three hour stints, and they claim that I should be complaining less than them.
Ben: You should.
Jamie: Because I don’t drive, because apparently I can’t drive. I can drive on a British driving license, but they don’t trust me to drive on the wrong side of the road.
Andrew: No, no, no.
Jamie: Can’t do that.
Mikey: One night we’ll see headlights coming straight at us, Jamie. Not safe.
Jamie: Mikey, that only happened once.
Ben: Let’s get it straight, he’s been asleep 90 percent of the time.
Jamie: I sleep like tean minutes, and then Mikey will be like, “Dude, you’ve slept all day while we’ve been driving.” And, you know, and all this kind of thing.
Mikey: Ten minutes in Jamie time – ten minutes in Jamie time is like five hours.
Mikey: No, really. It’s like all day, Jamie. It really is.
Jamie: Well, whatever. It doesn’t matter.
Mikey: Speaking of sleeping.
Jamie: What was I talking about now? Dumbledore. So, yeah, we were talking about Dumbledore. We’ve been talking about Dumbledore a lot because he’s a character that’s intrigued all of us, really. And we were pointing out that in Book 1, he was sort of a, you know, mentor figure, and he’s been a mentor figure. He’s also acted as a father figure, sort of, benevolent old man. You know, the kind of stuff that fairytales are made of. And then, in Book 7, we get a complete turnaround and we find out he’s had a, you know, a worrying past. He hasn’t been brought up like we thought he had to come into such – to be such a perfect man. And we were wondering whether this has changed everyone’s perceptions of Dumbledore, and whether they still like him or not at all. Okay, well, that solves that one.
Andrew: Wow, what a quick discussion.
Jamie: Okay, let’s move on.
Ben: There are a lot of people who don’t, you know, because they look to his past, say, okay, he was friends with Grindelwald. But you have to look at the circumstances in which he grew up, because he was given – he wasn’t really given much of a choice, because there were the three muggles that did those horrible, horrendous things to his little sister, and I think the fact that he actually turned his life around despite the fact that those bad things did happen to his family because of muggles, and he’s still able to, now, stand up for Muggles and do all these great things, I think is indicative of his true character.
Mikey: Definitely. So, what would you say reallu makes that…
Ben: [as Dumbledore] “It is our choices, Harry, far more than our abilities…”
Mikey: He was waiting for that, if you guys couldn’t tell.
Andrew: Every show. While I was reading that back story, I started seeing Dumbledore in a different light. I was like, wow, Dumbledore’s not all, you know, all that he’s been cracked up to be.
Ben: All that?
Andrew: All that.
Mikey: It made him kind of human, because, you know, you make choices, but not always the good.
Jamie: Yeah, and even more human considering that all this bad stuff has happened and he’s talking with Harry and he concentrated on Harry’s deal and what Harry had to do, and Harry’s problems. So, I had more respect for him after that.
Mikey: It also taught him something early on in life, that he wasn’t good with power. That’s why he was the headmaster and not Minister of Magic. If you look back at the King’s Cross scene at the end of the book, he talks about – Harry’s a better man than him because when he was young, he learned that power was not good on him. So, I think it was important that he went through those troubled times as a youth.
Jamie: Yeah, he faltered through slightly.
Ben: It made him all the wiser.
Jamie: Yeah, it did. Anyone have any points about Dumbledore?
Andrew: Yeah, you want to come up and bring up – here – come up.
Mikey: Come on up.
Andrew: It’s an audio podcast so we have to hear you.
Mikey: So we need to have you talk in the microphone.
Ben: We might actually record this one. The last two we had a malfunction.
Andrew: Yeah, we’ve had some bad luck recording our shows. Let’s not think about that right now.
Mikey: Say you’re name and where you’re from, and your question.
Ben: Your social security number, frequent flier number…
Mikey: Credit card number.
Andrew: MySpace URL.
Snape and Dumbledore
Stephanie: I’m Stephanie. I’m from Tulsa. And, you know, you’re talking about Dumbledore, and, you know, how people see him in a different light. I definitely do, just because of the fact that – look what he made Snape do. I mean, I’m a Slytherin, obviously, but [laughs] you know, just the fact that, you know, he made Snape kill him. I mean, that’s what made me see Dumbledore in a different light. Snape wasn’t the one…
Ben: In what kind of light did that like – how did that alter your perception?
Stephanie: Well, like you said, Dumbledore is – you think of him as he’s never done anything wrong. He’s never, you know… But then I’m like, you know, it’s not Snape coming to Dumbledore with all these ideas, it’s Dumbledore telling Snape, you do this, you do this, because we’re trying stop Voldemort and…
Mikey: Is he a puppet master? Pulling the strings.
Stephanie: Yes, exactly. Exactly. That’s what I think. I might be alone in that.
Ben: Right, but I think…
Mikey: No, no.
Ben: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Andrew: [laughs] Oh no.
Ben: You’ve got to give Dumbledore some credit here.
Ben: I think that, I think the fact that – okay, that one moment in time when Snape approaches Dumbledore, of course Snape has already done the Unbreakable Vow, because, you know, either he does that or it’s going to be obvious to Narcissa and Bellatrix that, you know, something’s up with Snape, that he’s not necessarily all with Voldemort’s side of things. And, so that one crucial moment in time where Snape approaches Dumbledore when Dumbledore’s there with Draco at the top of the tower, if Snape doesn’t kill Dumbledore he’s going to drop dead. And was proven by Book 7. It’s obvious that Snape’s position in the Order of the Phoenix was that much more crucial than Dumbledore’s. So, and the hero must go it alone, so I think the fact that Dumbledore made Snape kill him…
Jamie: It was a huge sacrifice.
Ben: It was a great sacrifice. And I think if anything, it should make us see Dumbledore in more of a positive light rather than thinking he’s some cruel person for making Snape kill him.
Mikey: Okay, I’m not going to argue. Not now.
Jamie: But saying that…
Mikey: In the car, in the car ride.
Ben: That’s all we do in the car ride, is constant bickering from the front to the back.
Jamie: About everything you could possibly think of as well. Just, oh.
Mikey: Just throwing chips at each other, like, “No, you’re wrong.”
Jamie: Yeah. No, you’re wrong.
Andrew: And the music’s a problem too, but anyway…
Jamie: Yeah, the music.
Andrew: Do we have – someone around here…
Jamie: No, yeah. Sorry. Can I say one thing?
Jamie: I know what you mean, because when I was reading that, The Prince’s Tale, you know, Dumbledore just says matter-of-factly, well, you know, if you come over here and do this stuff, and then go and see someone else, oh, and kill me. So, he acts like it isn’t a big deal, and then Snape wonders about his soul and what’s going to happen to his soul, and Dumbledore doesn’t seem to care, but I think he does care, really. So, that’s why – I don’t know. I don’t personally hate him.
Ben: There was one point in the book where I felt, basically when – you know, Harry felt this way too – was when Snape, in the Pensieve scene, where he finds out that Harry is going to have to die at the hands of Voldemort. And at that one point in time he thinks Voldemort – Dumbledore never really cared about my life, you know, he kept all this information from me. And, I don’t know, I think it makes sense that Dumbledore didn’t tell Harry he was a Horcrux before he died, because, as he said, Harry’s not very rational and tends to, you know, charge head on rather than actually thinking things through, which is another reason why Voldemort should’ve won. But…
What If Dumbledore Told Harry He Was a Horcrux?
Jamie: Can we ask – Andrew, can we just ask a quick question? What would’ve happened if Dumbledore had told Harry that he was a Horcrux before he died?
Andrew: We had this debate somewhere.
Jamie: Did we?
Andrew: And I think we said – I think it was at Enlightening?
Jamie: Probably in the car, actually.
Andrew: Someone – who?
Audience Member: Enlightening.
Andrew: Enlightening. Thank you, sir. Episode 99. He’s a listener. He’s a good listener. Yeah, we discussed that. We said that if Harry is a Horcrux, if Dumbledore told Harry that he was a Horcrux, Harry would most likely kill himself to defeat Voldemort.
Jamie: But Harry, even then, understood that after all the Horcruxes were gone, Voldemort would still be a mortal man, but with extraordinary magical power, so it would still take him to kill him, but that would be rash. I’m glad Dumbledore didn’t tell him.
Jamie: He’d just try to Expelliarmus it out of him or something like that, something stupid.
Ben: That’s all he does, anyways.
Mikey: Expelliarmus is like the magical, you know, spell.
Jamie: It is.
Mikey: Everything. It’s like, open doors, Expelliarmus.
Andrew: That, and Alohamora was used once in the book, wasn’t it?
Andrew: And it seems like such an easy thing to do. Like, what’s the point of locks?
Mikey: Yeah, it’s like, the first years can do that.
Andrew: Why even have locks? It’s like 7-11’s, why do they have locks? They’re open 24 hours.
Ben: Raise your hand if you read a book called MuggleNet.com’s What Will Happen in Harry Potter Book 7: Who Lives, Who Dies, Who Falls in Love, and How the Adventure Finally Ends. Okay, I just – you can ask these guys, usually, I don’t like to boast…
Mikey: Oh, no.
Ben: …but we called it. Harry’s a Horcrux, folks. Just thought I’d get that out there. Thank you.
Mikey: Ben Schoen called it, everybody. He knew Harry was, indeed, a Horcrux.
Andrew: When we see Emerson in Chicago, Emerson was – Emerson fought for the Harry is a Horcrux theory tooth and nail. He deserves a lot of credit, too, when we see him in Chicago. Not to say you don’t, either. But, I mean…
Mikey: You know, Emerson Spartz from MuggleNet.com probably deserves some credit, too.
Andrew: Yeah. [laughs]
Jamie: Any other thoughts on Dumbledore?
Andrew: Yeah, right here. We’ll take a couple. Yeah, yeah, you in the pink.
Mikey: Here’s the microphone.
Dumbledore: Minister vs. Headmaster
Shelby: You know how he said Vol – sorry. Dumbledore said – oh, hi. My name is Shelby. I’m 14. Tulsa, Oklahoma.
Mikey: Credit card number?
Shelby: Okay. You know how Dumbledore said that he wouldn’t be Minister of Magic because of the power thing? Well, he’s Headmaster of Hogwarts. He has influence over thousands of impressionable teenagers and pre-teens. How is that not power?
Ben: That’s a good question. But, I think when Dumbledore says power, he’s referring to too much power, because at Hogwarts he has power over thousands of teens and preteens, whereas, if he was to be Minister of Magic, he’d have influence over the whole magical community, which obviously is a lot more people.
Jamie: And he can change laws as well, which is something he knows he must not get, he must not do because of his background.
Mikey: He also admitted that he loved teaching, even at an early age, and so, by him taking place as a teacher, overseeing all that, it definitely took away from the draw of power because he was teaching, doing something he loved.
Andrew: Yeah. And there’s no doubt Dumbledore loved being Headmaster of Hogwarts. So…let’s see, anyone else?
Andrew: One more. There was someone else who had their hand raised originally. Are they – yeah. Go ahead, come on up. Come on up. Sure. Then you next.
Mikey: Why don’t you make your way up right now so you can make your way through.
Andrew: Yes. Be prepared, here.
Ben: On deck.
Dumbledore Not Telling Harry He Was a Horcrux
Teddy: My name’s Teddy, I’m from Oklahoma City, and…
Andrew: Whoo, Oklahoma City.
Teddy: Thank you. I just wanted to say the thing about, like, how Dumbledore didn’t tell Harry that he was a Horcrux before he died. Probably because that would just scare Harry for a year, however long he had to think about it, because when he had the hour he had before he had to go die, he didn’t really have to think about it that much, he just thought, that’s what I have to do. But if he had more time, then he probably would’ve thought, “but what about all the people I’m going to miss and all that.” So…
Mikey: Maybe Hermione would’ve talked him out of killing himself or something because she thinks way too much about everything.
Ben: She points out that final scene when Harry knows, when Harry thinks that he’s going to have to be the one who dies, the way he approached that was the most mature we have seen him throughout all seven books, because, in that one moment of time, he realized that his is what he had to do, and his own life became second nature to those around him. It was a great moment.
Andrew: Yeah. And then, lastly?
Age: Dumbledore vs. The Trio
Julie: Hi, my name’s Julie. I’m from Edmond, Oklahoma. And, back to if it changed our perspective of Dumbledore, knowing what he was like when he was younger. Hermione and Ron and a bunch of other people kept saying, well, he was young, he was young, and Harry kept saying, well, he was the same age as we are. And I think that’s the point, because Harry has his prejudices and Harry also makes mistakes, and I think that Dumbledore turned out to be like Harry in the end. And, you know, growing up and realizing what mattered most and it didn’t change Harry’s perspective of Dumbledore, and it certainly didn’t change mine either.
Andrew: Fair enough.
Ben: I think that has to be, you know, when Dumbledore says choices, I don’t think choices alone really shape who you are. I mean, even though I like to do the [impersonates Dumbledore] “choices, Harry” quote a lot.
Ben: I really don’t think that – I think that, given any environment, if any of us were born into any certain environment, we’d be the exact same way that Dumbledore was.
Jamie: Yeah, and if you notice, even Harry displays some of the characteristics that Dumbledore is ashamed of. You know, like, in Book 5, in Grimmuald Place, he starts shouting and saying, you know, I’ve done more than you two together. So, there’s a certain degree of arrogance in both of them, which could be because of their background.
Mikey: He has done more than both of them together. So…
Jamie: He has.
Ben: Right, but you still – you don’t say things like that.
Jamie: You probably wouldn’t say something like that. Well, you might, Mikey, I don’t know.
Mikey: I would never say such a thing.
Jamie: It’s just a joke.
Mikey: It hurts. Quit being so mean.
Sympathy For Tom Riddle
Ben: I mean, who – does anybody here feel a little bit of sympathy for Tom Riddle? I mean, look at the circumstances he grew up in. Was it really his fault that he turned out to be who he was?
Mikey: He was never loved. He was never loved. No, I agree. Voldemort was bad, I’m not “Ben Schoen” here, but he was never loved. It’s kind of sad.
Ben: But can we blame Voldemort for the way…
Mikey: It’s sad.
Andrew: Harry was loved. Not orginally. Not at first, but…
Ben: Can we blame, can we actually blame Voldemort for who he became? Whereas, can we blame Harry for who he became? I mean, when you’re born into circumstances outside of your control, could anybody really be at fault for what’s happened in their lives?
Andrew: You’re going to make me cry, Ben. This is very emotional.
Andrew: I agree, you have a good point.
[Crowd member says something]
Andrew: Yeah. You have to give Harry credit, the listener said.
Ben: But – I don’t give Harry credit, though.
Mikey: I like Harry, not Voldemort.
Debate: Should the Wizarding World Have Sacrificed Harry?
Andrew: You want to move on now to a debate, Ben?
Ben: I would love to.
Andrew: Ben’s been itching for a debate because…
Ben: School’s out.
Andrew: …he’s out of school now.
Mikey: He wants to go back to school.
Ben: Okay, disregarding the ending of the series, should – huh?
Jamie: Explain the debate first.
Ben: Oh, I don’t know. Okay, there’s – on one side, it’s going to be Jamie and I, and on the other side, it’s going to be Andrew and Mikey, and we’re going to win, but…
Ben: …we’ll let you decide that, actually.
Andrew: They thought up this debate to begin with. I didn’t even read the title.
Ben: Okay, disregarding the end of the series…
Ben: Okay. Should the wizarding world have surrendered Harry Potter for the greater good? You know that part where, “You have an hour, Harry, blah blah blah”?
Jamie: Yeah, and take into account that we don’t specifically believe in what we’re going to be arguing in, but we’re just arguing because that’s what we have, because this could get…
Mikey: That’s what we like to do, really.
Jamie: Yeah, yeah, we like to argue.
Mikey: In the car rides, that’s all we do.
Jamie: I’m not sure which side I believe, but we’re going to argue furiously, aren’t we, Ben?
Ben: So, Jamie and I are going to say that yes, they should have surrendered him. I think.
Jamie: Okay, yeah.
Ben: You guys are going to say no, they shouldn’t. Disregard the end of the series and disregard the fact that – you’ve got to look at it from the perspective of one of the people in the wizarding community who did not know all of the insider stuff that we do.
Andrew: Inside Hogwarts? Fighting at Hogwarts?
Mikey: Or someone outside?
Ben: Like a Molly Weasley. Give it up for Molly Weasley, everyone!
Andrew: Molly was fighting…
Mikey: Molly would never give up Harry, because he’s as good as one of her sons.
Andrew: Molly was fighting at Hogwarts, though, so…
Jamie: Have we started? Sorry.
Ben: No, no.
Andrew: I’m just trying to figure out what’s going on.
Mikey: It’s an early blow, sorry.
Ben: You don’t get it, you don’t get it. I’m saying should…
Mikey: Okay, okay.
Ben: Should not, will not, will not, what, did, happen, no, should. Okay?
Andrew: [laughs] Okay.
Ben: You follow?
Andrew: I get it.
Mikey: We’re starting.
Ben: So, so who starts?
Mikey: I’ll go first.
Ben: Jamie – you two start, you two start.
Mikey: I can go first.
Mikey: I think I got something here.
Mikey: Personally, I don’t think the wizarding world should have given up Harry Potter. The reason why is, you can’t give into the demands of one sadistic, crazy murderer. You can’t.
Mikey: Because if you do, how do you know it’s going to end there? If they give up Harry Potter, who are they going to take next? Ginny, Ron, Hermione, everyone else that we cared about in the series.
Mikey: So, I really don’t think they would, you know, in any means, it would be smart to give him up, because he’s never kept to, you know, any type of, you know, deal.
Ben: Okay, we have a response from Mr. Lawrence here.
Jamie: Moral choices are all well and good, Mikey, but you have to take into account the here and now, what was happening at that time. That one person there, and all these children in Hogwarts. You have to – you know, all these children could die if Voldemort comes in, and I know you can think with hindsight, you know, “Well, I’m so glad we didn’t,” because he happened to vanquish the Dark Lord, but don’t forget that we’re reading these books and we know good is going to win over evil. But in terms of being there, good and evil, it doesn’t really matter, because you think, “I have 500 lives here and I have one life here.” Of course you can think that, you know, this could not be the end of it if Voldemort wins, but you could also think that if Harry doesn’t succeed, there’s – and if you’re standing there, and you think, “We have this Dark Lord who has been so powerful all these years. He’s one of the most powerful wizards ever to have lived, and Harry Potter.” You have to have one slight concern that he isn’t going to win, and his wrath is going to be terrible. Voldemort’s wrath is going to be terrible if they didn’t give Harry up, and – sorry, yeah, if they give Harry up. Yeah, there’d be a lot of bloodshed. So, I think you have to think the greater good there, and if you hand over Harry Potter, all the children in Hogwarts could survive, and that should bring you through.
Andrew: Most of the children at Hogwarts did survive anyway, but…
Ben: We’re not talking about did.
Jamie: We’re not talking did, Andrew.
Andrew: Most people were…
Andrew: All right, fair enough. Everyone was behind Harry, though. Once everyone realized that the Ministry was wrong, that the Ministry was lying about Voldemort being back, that’s when everyone realized, “Okay, we should fight with Harry because Harry’s right and we should defeat Voldemort.” Everyone hates Voldemort anyway. You can’t say, “Oh, let’s give him over to Harry,” because then everyone is losing.
Mikey: Everyone who did not join Voldemort as a Death Eater were living in fear. Giving into someone that’s a dictator like that, living in fear.
Andrew: Yeah, they wanted to stop Voldemort.
Jamie: It isn’t a case of giving up…
Mikey: Will it end by giving up one life? Is that one life, you know?
Ben: We’re not talking about the concept of giving up one life and the concept of fear. We’re saying…
Mikey: No, you’re saying that they’re giving up Harry, or not to give up Harry.
Ben: No, no. Did I interrupt you, Mikey?
Mikey: I’m sorry, Ben Schoen, I really am.
[Andrew and crowd laugh]
Mikey: I’m sorry.
Ben: What I’m saying is…
Mikey: Anyway. Okay.
Ben: You’re given the choice. Okay, say there – I love using real world analogies. So, say there was a plane that was hijacked, and we knew that Osama Bin Laden was on board and that he was going to crash this plane into the Sears Tower, okay? Do we shoot the plane down and save the people on the ground, or do we say, “You know, we can’t give into fear. We can’t give into terror…”
Jamie: It’s realism, yeah.
Ben: “…and let this plane crash and kill 8,000 people.” More than that, even.
Mikey: I think I heard it in the crowd. “What? Really, what?”
Andrew: You can’t really compare…
Jamie: No, no, no.
Ben: No, I’m right. I’m absolutely right.
Jamie: But it comes down to realism. Not giving into evil is very, very good if you can stand it, but then you have to think that there are lives at stake. I have to make the decision that saves the most amount of lives and destroys the least amount of lives, and handing Harry at that situation would have saved the most amount of lives because all you can think about is the short term, and in the short term you’re going to save all these lives. The long term you can’t be sure about, and even if you didn’t hand over Harry, the long term could still be bleak, and worse, because you haven’t handed over Harry.
Ben: So, what we’re saying is that you guys are looking at it from like – you ignored the first part of what I said. Ignoring the end of the series. You guys keep going on about…
Ben: …how, you know, “Well, they lived anyways, blah blah blah.”
Mikey: No, I didn’t say that.
Andrew: I didn’t say that.
Ben: Well, then go ahead.
Andrew: I was talking to…
Ben: Go ahead, go ahead.
Ben: Humor me.
Mikey: I’m just saying, one life versus one hundred lives. Okay, I personally don’t think giving up any life, for any reason, would be a rational decision, especially when you don’t know what’s going to happen. It’s – basically it comes down to your favorite line: “It’s your choices you decide to make.”
Mikey: And giving up Harry to believe that Voldemort would hold up his end and have no more bloodshed? I just don’t think that would make any sense at all for any people in the wizarding world who are already living in fear, who – there’s been so much bloodshed, so much, you know, Muggle-born killings. It just, it wouldn’t make any sense whatsoever for anyone who was not already a Death Eater to give Harry over.
Andrew: Yeah, they weren’t just…
Mikey: I just have one more point. And also, at this point in time, even though Harry – you know, giving over Harry would stop all this, apparently, Harry was considered the Chosen One by everyone at that time. Voldemort wanted him. Why give up your one chance to end something? I think that, right there, would make the biggest – you know, it’s like, why give up your lifeline, really?
Andrew: They weren’t just fighting for Harry, they were fighting for the wizarding community as a whole.
Mikey: As a whole. Even the kids. Even the kids there…
Andrew: We’re running out of time.
Mikey: We’re almost out of time, but even the kids in the castle understood what was going on. You know, the little Creeveys wanted to fight. They knew what was going on.
Jamie: And we think…
Mikey: I know, it’s sad, but they wanted to fight. They knew what was going on. They stood up…
Mikey: …to a bad man.
Ben: But knowing that if you do not give up this one person, that absolutely everybody there is going to be…
Jamie: Will die.
Ben: Obliterated and killed, you give up that one person because…
Jamie: You – yeah.
Ben: That is going to give you a chance at life, whereas if you don’t give up that one person, you’re going to – everybody’s going to be killed.
Jamie: And you have to take the majority amount of people. You know, the Creevey brothers wanting to fight is all well and good, but the Creevey brothers are not going to stand any chance against Bellatrix or any of those Death Eaters.
Andrew: Well, would you have predicted Molly Weasley?
Jamie: They will die unnecessarily.
Andrew: Would you have predicted Molly Weasley would stand a chance against Bellatrix?
Jamie: No, I think that’s very cool , but apart from that…
Mikey: I think the only way to solve this is to ask the audience.
Jamie: Well, can we finish our point?
Ben: No, actually, you guys got to speak a lot more than we did, so…
Andrew: We got…
Jamie: Let’s just finish this point.
Andrew: No, no, no. It was fairly split. You guys – well, okay, anyway, let’s take a poll here. How are we going to do this?
Jamie: Well, can we finish our point?
Andrew: Hands, or…
Ben: Wait, so, I mean, you guys just get to cut us off when we’re trying – right in the middle of a point?
Andrew: Go ahead, finish. Finish, we’re running out of time.
Mikey: Finish your argument, finish your argument. I want have Alex play, but finish your argument.
Jamie: Okay, so in these situations, you have to take into account the most amount of people, and the Creevey brothers, as I said, it’s very cool that they want to fight, but they’re not going to survive something like this, so Harry Potter, you know, such a brave boy, would understand that all these lives have to be spared. He – all of his decisions are to be made to save lives. He himself allows him to be killed to save the people in the there and then, and you know, I think that you two are going against everything that Harry Potter stands for, and I don’t think you can call yourselves fans…
Jamie: To be honest.
Andrew: All right.
Ben: So basically…
Jamie: The door’s over there.
Ben: In summary, Jamie and I are looking at this argument through a big picture perspective, whereas Andrew and Mikey are looking at it from a…
Andrew: Ben knows he’s going to lose. [laughs]
Ben: …narrow – through a pipe. So…
Mikey: We’re wrong, so you want to make sure you vote for Ben Schoen. Remember that, basically.
Andrew: All right, a show of hands, who agrees with Mikey and I that the wizarding community should have…
Mikey: Kept Harry…
Andrew: Should have kept Harry.
Mikey: And fought, yeah.
Andrew: All right. Oh, jeez. Okay. That looks like a majority amount.
Ben: So you’ve got to remember, it’s not whether you agree with them personally. He didn’t phrase that very well.
Andrew: No, they understand.
Ben: It’s whether you – no, no. It’s not whether you agree with Mikey…
Female Audience Member: Ben lost.
Ben: No, I don’t lose. Ben Schoen does not lose! You do not understand. Okay, Ben Schoen doesn’t lose.
Mikey: For people listening, someone just said, “Ben lost.”
Jamie: Ben, been. How many hands went up just now? 15% of the people in here, maybe? Something like that, yeah.
Andrew: Fine, fine, we’ll hear it, then. Who agrees with Mike and I? Make noise.
Mikey: Make noise if you agree with us.
Andrew: Okay. Who agrees – whoever agrees with Ben and Jamie, make noise.
Ben: By the way, that was digitally altered. By the way.
Andrew: All right, we got one guy over here.
Mikey: [laughs] One guy.
Andrew: You’re invited to the MuggleCast after party.
Mikey: With Ben.
Andrew: I’m sure Ben and Jamie will be extending an invitation.
Andrew: Anyway, let’s just take a couple of quick questions. We’re almost out of time, we have two more…
Jamie: Wait, who won?
Mikey: I don’t know who won. We’ll let people listening decide.
Audience Question: A Slap in the Face to Laura Mallory?
Andrew: Let’s take a couple of questions real quick about the Book Seven. Just real quick.
Andrew: Magic number.
Ben: There’s no doubt about it.
Andrew: What’s your name, where are you from?
Katiry: I’m Katiry and I’m from Miami, Oklahoma. I’m 19. I was just wondering if you guys think it’s a big slap in Laura Mallory’s face because Harry goes and dies for everyone and then comes back to life kind of like Jesus?
Jamie: Yeah, but she’ll try again.
Jamie: She’s tried like, five or six times now and she keeps losing. It’s like, one of those birds who flies against the glass window and carries on and carries on and carries on.
Mikey: Which is – I feel for it.
Jamie: And she’ll keep trying and she’ll keep trying, and then perhaps one day she’ll read the books, maybe.
Andrew: Good point. All right. Next question.
Audience Question: Can Harry Still Talk to Snakes?
Kelsey: I’m Kelsey from Stillwater. I wanted to ask if – since the part of Voldemort’s soul that was in Harry is now destroyed, do you think that he still can talk to snakes?
Ben: I don’t think so. Probably not, since…
Ben: …the power resided within the Horcrux itself, so probably not.
Audience Question: Why Didn’t Draco Use House Elves to Bring Death Eaters to Hogwarts?
Andrew: Right here, yeah. You’re desperate. Oh, my gosh, you’re like holding your breath until you get picked.
Ashley: My name’s Ashley.
Ashley: From Cleveland.
Ben: How old are you?
Ashley: 14. Okay, so, house elves can Apparate in or out wherever they want, basically, as they’ve Appparated around Hogwarts. Why couldn’t, in Half-Blood Prince, why couldn’t Draco have Apparated with house elves to bring the Death Eaters in?
Ben: She’s saying, basically, it would be a lot easier to take a house elf and Apparate in rather than bringing…
Jamie: Perhaps they can’t bring people along with them.
Jamie: Or there’s something against humans coming into Hogwarts, you know, rather than the method of coming in.
Mikey: Oh, I think I can answer that.
Jamie: I’m not sure. Go on.
Mikey: If he was able to take a house elf, then we would’ve never saw where the other Horcrux was in that room, and it wouldn’t have worked as a story.
[Crowd laughs and applauds]
Audience Question: What Happened to Fawkes?
Andrew: This guy right here, and then one final question.
Anderson: I’m Anderson Daniel from Tahlequah. I’m 17. I was wondering if you guys were disappointed that Fawkes didn’t show up anywhere in the book.
Andrew: Yeah, we were.
Jamie: Yeah, very.
Andrew: Yeah, we talked about this a few times.
Jamie: In the car mostly, yeah.
Andrew: What was missing? The Veil, Fawkes, you know, it was a disappoint, but – encyclopedia, I hope.
Jamie: Hope she’ll explain it more, yeah.
Andrew: Yeah. One last question. This guy right here, doesn’t even have his hand raised.
Mikey: Alex Carpenter.
Andrew: Alex Carpenter of The Remus Lupins, round of applause!
Mikey: He’s so dreamy.
[Andrew and crowd laugh]
Mikey: A wizard rock heartthrob?
Alex: You guys are dorks.
Alex: You guys all like Harry Potter. You guys are dorks.
Andrew: [in dorky voice] Alex, thanks. Yeah, what’s up? Let’s talk. [in normal voice] Alex, were you happy with the book?
Alex: Yeah, I was. Well, I mean, sort of.
Alex: There were parts…
Andrew: What bothered you?
Alex: I don’t know, my corpse?
Alex: That always gets me. Yeah. Basically when I read that ending, Lupin and Tonks were in there, dead, I was like, “Aw, aw, aw.”
Jamie: Alex, do people ask you questions like that? Sort of, what was your reaction to your death? Like, “Yeah, well, it was a bit annoying to me because I died, and then, you know…”
Alex: It was stunning, really. Shocking. I didn’t expect it as I thought that I was going to be alive, but I’m dead, so that’s good.
Andrew: So, are you going to get a name change, or are you just sticking with it?
Alex: Yeah, I was thinking of changing my name to Harry and the Potters, but I heard it’s taken.
Andrew: [laughs] That’d be pretty original.
Alex: Yeah, yeah, maybe.
Andrew: All right, well, Alex, you’re going to come up here with your band and start performing music in just a second.
Andrew: Thank you, everyone, for coming out today.
Mikey: Thank you guys very much.
Alex: Thank you all very much.
Mikey: Stick around. Everyone outside, come on in and take a look at The Remus Lupins.
Andrew: Don’t forget, there’s plenty of merchandise over there.
Ben: Oh, one second, one second, ladies and gentlemen. A few thanks yous first. Thank you to Adam Bromberg for driving us everywhere and running our table over there, he’s been great.
Jamie: Thank you, Adam.
Ben: Give him a round of applause.
Mikey: He’s got MuggleCast shirts like the one Ben’s wearing. It’s snazzy.
Ben: By the way, I don’t have any luggage with me, so I’ve just been grabbing t-shirts out of the back.
Andrew: Ben’s suitcase is a plastic bag.
Mikey: From Target.
Andrew: Thanks, everyone.
Jamie: Thanks very much.
MuggleCast 102 Transcript (continued)
Live From St. Louis
Andrew: And now, here’s our show from St. Louis, Missouri. I forgot to record the first couple of minutes where we do the introductions, but you know what happens, so here is where I started recording:
Main Discussion: Snape
Andrew: I guess we want to first talk about, we want to – at each show, we’ve been sort of holding a main discussion, and yesterday we talked about Dumbledore. Today we want to talk about Snape, because…
Andrew: Everyone’s happy about Snape now, right?
Jamie: Snape’s been a very interesting character throughout the books because before Book Seven, really, we thought, he’s so mean to Harry, and he’s mean to everyone, and now with Book Seven there’s all this new evidence that shows that he was an unsung hero. Everyone hated him, but in death, you know, he’s become a martyr, and you know, all this stuff. So we’re wondering what people thought about Snape now, and if their position of Snape has changed with the release of the seventh book, or have their feelings towards him increased, decreased, anything like that. So, Ben?
Ben: I don’t know. I mean, I thought what Snape did was kind of expected from him, I mean, if you can read the writing on the wall, I thought it was quite clear that Snape was working for the Order, and I don’t know, I still think Alex Carpenter likes to talk about Snape a lot, and he says, well, okay, he cleared him of one charge. He was conspiring with Dumbledore to kill him, but it doesn’t change the fact that he’s still a jerk.
Jamie: But, he’s not. But he’s only – he only is to Harry. Well, you know, he is to everyone, but now the reason he’s a jerk to Harry has come out, because he sees Lily’s eyes in Harry, and he loves Lily, and the silver doe proves that. So…
Mikey: But he’s still a jerk.
Jamie: Yeah, but, okay…
Andrew: I don’t know if he is, though. I think I agree with Jamie on this one. I mean, he was being a jerk to Harry just to build character.
Jamie: I think these two are just heartless in this. You know, he’s a jerk, but he’s only helped conquer the Dark Lord and probably without his help, Harry would have just been throwing Expelliarmus spells everywhere again, just like he does all the time.
Jamie: So, yeah. I think Snape is an unsung hero and if anyone agrees, please raise a point or something like that.
Ben: What’s interesting, though, is how, when Snape and Dumbledore are having a conversation and Snape is talking about how the kid’s just like his father, he’s arrogant, he’s conceited, he’s all these terrible things, and then Dumbledore brings up the fact that that’s just Snape’s opinion, because the same teachers tell him completely opposite things about Harry. How he’s endearing, how he’s charming, how he’s a good friend. So, I don’t know, I think Snape – maybe I’m starting to agree with you a bit, Jamie, but he’s still kind of really mean, though.
Jamie: But Snape is kind of true, he is arrogant like that. You know, I’m not saying that he shouldn’t be, but Harry is kind of arrogant, and he’s just…
Ben: In what way?
Jamie: Just how – like in Order of the Phoenix, when he was shouting at Ron and Hermione, being like, “I’ve done more than all of you put together,” and, you know?
Ben: Well, is it true? I mean…
Jamie: Well, perhaps a bit, but this conversation’s wandering slightly, but back to Snape.
Jamie: Snape – okay, I think whatever bad things Snape has done, and they are numerous, as Alex points out, the fact that he was playing a double life and obviously when people called him a coward it really got to him because that’s the one thing he wasn’t being, a coward. He was, you know, helping Harry, he was helping Dumbledore. He was working on Dumbledore’s orders and completely destroying himself by playing this dual role. I don’t see how anyone could ever think of him as bad. You should feel ashamed of yourselves if you do, i think, personally.
Mikey: I don’t agree with you at all.
Jamie: Well, you should feel ashamed of yourself, Mikey. That’s…
Ben: Mikey, justify yourself, then.
Mikey: I can justify myself. You know, I read the book…
Jamie: Mikey, can I just ask you how you sleep at night?
Jamie: Because I think, you know…
Mikey: Usually I close my eyes and fall asleep.
Jamie: Wow. I should try that. Never heard of that before.
Mikey: It works, you know, no light gets in. I – no, I agree. Snape has done a lot, especially at the end of Book 7, you find out in “The Prince’s Tale.” He’s done a lot of great things, and really, that silver doe really kind of brings back – you know, I don’t hate him as much. I used to loathe Snape with a passion because he was just so mean to Harry, and Harry was like – come on, it’s called Harry Potter. I was all about Harry. He’s cool.
Mikey: But no, he really has been just like, a jerk to Harry through the entire series. Okay, I know it’s building character, blah blah blah. He was still mean, though. And really, he’s still a greasy git when it comes down to it. He really is, you know.
Jamie: He is a greasy git.
Mikey: He needs to take a shower. He needs to wash his hair.
[Andrew and crowd laugh]
Mikey: No, it’s true.
Jamie: But Mikey, that is – being a greasy git, I think, is less of a crime than collaborating with the greatest Dark Lord that’s killed thousands and thousands and thousands of people. He probably would get to wash his hair if he were a serial killer. I hope you agree.
Mikey: No, I agree that he’s not as bad as I used to think, so I don’t loathe him anymore. I still don’t like him. He’s not my favorite character. He did some bad stuff.
Jamie: I just think we have to understand where he’s coming from. He obviously has had this eternal love for Lily…
Jamie: …that hasn’t died down.
Mikey: But he still became a Death Eater.
Andrew: That’s one thing we haven’t…
Jamie: But, but…
Mikey: Am I wrong there? He still became…
Jamie: No, no.
Mikey: …a Death Eater.
Ben: Right, but did he still, you know, make a 180 and go for the good side?
Mikey: Why did he do that, then? Like, what would have caused him to make a 180?
Ben: Lily’s death.
Mikey: Oh, okay. I thought it was his choices.
Ben: Huh? Well, of course it’s his choices, but…
Jamie: Didn’t someone say that in the books?
[Andrew and Mikey laugh]
Ben: [in Dumbledore voice] “It is our choices, Harry. Far more than our abilities.”
Mikey: There is it. Okay. We have to set him up at some point for his Dumbledore voice.
Mikey: But no, yes, Dumbledore – or, no, Snape did have choices and he changed, but regardless, he still went down that path, he still became a Death Eater, he was still a jerk overall to Harry.
Jamie: But he – he just had so much…
Mikey: He did have some redemption.
Jamie: No, no, no.
Mikey: He did bring himself back.
Jamie: He did, but there was stuff he had to do. He had to weigh up loving Lily against being mean to her son, and continuing the, sort of – perhaps he didn’t want to be mean to him, but he did it because, you know, he had to think of the bigger picture. And he had to – his soul, as he says, in one of the chapters in Deathly Hallows when they’re talking about Draco killing Dumbledore and Snape is like, “Well, what’s going to happen to my soul after I do this thing?” So, he’s had people not caring about him right to the end. He finished his life with all the Hogwarts teachers hating him, you know, because they thought he was on the bad side. This is one man who sees the bigger picture completely, and he’s completely selfless. And he may need to wash his hair, but…
Ben: The question I have for you, Mikey…
Mikey: Oh, no.
Ben: …is given the situation Snape was raised in, can you really criticize him for the way he felt towards other people?
Mikey: I don’t think I can, but he still made those choices. Harry was raised in not the same situation, but in a very harsh situation, but I don’t think his family didn’t love him.
Andrew: I don’t think…
Ben: Hold on a second. If Harry, at the end of the book, it’s obvious since Harry named one of his only kids after Snape, Albus Severus whatever. If Harry has the nerve to forgive Snape, why can’t you, Mikey?
[Crowd laughs and applauds]
Ben: That’s the real question.
Mikey: I’ve forgiven him for the fact that he killed Dumbledore, but he’s still a jerk throughout the series.
Jamie: And he’s got greasy hair, right?
Mikey: I think…
Ben: You’re spiteful, Mikey.
Andrew: I think Lily is really important here…
Mikey: I’m not going to win at all.
Andrew: No, you’re not. I think Lily is really important in this, like Jamie brought up, because Lily – Snape had a love for Lily and therefore Snape wanted to protect Harry after Lily died.
Andrew: Snape probably still loved Lily, even after…
Jamie: No, he did.
Mikey: He did, that’s why he had the silver doe.
Andrew: Even after Lily died.
Jamie: Silver doe, yeah.
Mikey: Because we know Patronuses can change, so if he still had the silver doe, we know he still…
Jamie: Yeah, but the important thing about the Patronus is that they can’t lie, and we’ve talked about this, we weren’t sure the reason why Dumbledore trusted Snape, and then we realized it’s because of his silver doe Patronus, because you can’t lie with a Patronus. It’s very interesting and touching.
Mikey: Yes, it is.
Jamie: Yes, it is.
Audience’s Thoughts on Snape
Andrew: Does anyone have any thoughts about this debacle?
Jamie: This character. This amazing character.
Mikey: Anyone have an opinion about Snape that wants to share?
Andrew: You have to come up.
Mikey: You have to come up, though, because you need to be on the microphone.
Andrew: Yeah, you have to come up here.
Mikey: There’s one right here.
Andrew: We’re doing an audio show, we have to hear you.
Mikey: Please state your name…
Andrew: Oh, oh, sorry.
Ben: Name, serial number – I mean, social security number…
Mikey: Credit card, date of birth, along with your drivers license.
Andrew: And MySpace URL.
Jamie: And bank card details.
Mikey: Yes. Facebook, too.
Comparing Voldemort, Snape and Harry
Brynn: Well, I’m Brinn. And I just thought it was interesting that there was this huge parallel between Voldemort and Snape and Harry. And it was almost as if Snape was in between. Because they all had – they were raised in a way that was not, like, the ideal childhood. And then, there was actually a line towards the end about Hogwarts being, like, all of their homes, where they all felt at home. But it’s, you know, another thing about the choices because Voldemort totally went evil, and then Snape sort of came back, and Harry, you know, even though he experienced a lot of the same thing, turned out to be good. So, yeah.
Jamie: I agree completely.
Ben: It’s interesting. It’s almost like you have three different degrees. You have Harry, who, you know, was raised without parents, chose the path that obviously has been good from the start. You have Voldemort who was raised without parents who chose the path, you know, towards [Darth Vader voice] the Dark Side.
[Crowd and Andrew laugh]
Ben: Then you have Snape, who was, you know, torn in between. So…
Degrees of Salsa
Mikey: So, they’re kind of like salsa.
Mikey: Mild, Medium, and Hot.
Ben: Yes, exactly, Mikey.
Mikey: [laughs] I saw that coming right away. I was like, “Oh, I have to use this.”
Andrew: How did you get in here with that shirt, by the way?
Jamie: Someone has to explain that. Can someone explain that?
Jamie: That reference you just made.
Mikey: The salsa. Well…
Jamie: Everyone will know I didn’t get it.
Mikey: [laughs] He’s British, that’s why.
Ben: Medium, cold…
Mikey: Yeah. There’s Mild, which is like the lowest end of salsa. And there’s Medium, and there’s Hot. And there’s three different degrees, you know, that they all grew up on. There’s three types of salsa, also.
Jamie: You know what you should do? That’s so good, you should tell Jo that. You should be like, “Your characters are so developed, they reminded me of a sauce that isn’t alive.”
Ben: Well, I bet that’s where she got the idea.
Jamie: Yeah, I bet it was, yeah.
Ben: She was sitting there with her tortilla chips.
Jamie: She wasn’t really sitting on a train in London, she was…
Mikey: She was eating her dinner, tacos and chips…
Ben: Okay, we took it a little far. We took things a little far.
Andrew: How did you get in here with that shirt, by the way? Harry and the Potters?
Mikey: Harry and the Potters? It’s the Remus Lupins show. It’s Remus Lupin’s. [laughs]
Andrew: Oh, Okay. All right, what’s your name, phone number, social and all that?
Theory on Snape’s Motive
Annie: My name’s Annie. And I know a lot of people are saying that Snape mainly was mean to Harry because Harry reminded Snape of James. But has anyone thought that since Voldemort could use Legilimency against Harry, that maybe Snape was – He knew that, and so he didn’t want to be nice to Harry because of Voldemort would obviously read his mind and see that. And then he’d realize, “Oh, Snape is being nice to my enemy. My worst enemy. Why is he being a friend to him?” And then he’d suspect Snape and Snape would lose his position as a spy for Dumbledore.
Jamie: That is so true, it’s unbelievable.
Ben: Well, no. Whoa, hold on, though. You have to realize that Snape began being mean to Harry early on. You know, year one, back when Voldemort was Vapormort. You know, just an apparition.
Annie: Well, yeah. No, I’m not – yeah.
Ben: That’s all he was. So, I mean, it was different then. In Book 5, once Voldemort actually has a body, then he has to be mean to Harry. But prior to that, he made the choice to mean because of Harry’s dad.
Annie: Right. And I’m not ruling out the possibility that he still reminded him of James. That was one of the reasons why he was mean to him, I thought. But the other reason being Legilimency. So, those were my thoughts.
Jamie: That’s a good point. Very good point. Anyone else?
Andrew: Here, we’ll let this girl go first.
Snape Died in Vain
Nippin: Hi, I’m Nippin from Othalin, Illinois. Right across the river.
[Some crowd members “wooo”]
Nippin: [laughs] And my point was just that, I know a lot of us wanted to see Snape, you know, do something really big and heroic at the end. You know, in that final battle, sacrifice himself for Harry and show everyone. Like, redeem himself in front of everyone. And we didn’t see that. He kind of died in vain, it felt like.
Nippin: So, I was disappointed in that.
Jamie: And also, he died being an enemy of Hogwarts. You know, the place that he’d been the entire time. All these teachers didn’t like him. You know, there should be a memorial set up to him in Hogwarts, but instead they’re going to think he’s an enemy forevermore.
Ben: Well, no they won’t. I’m sure Harry managed to clear it up.
Mikey: Wait, wait, wait…
Ben: But it’s also interesting to point out that it’s just sheer luck that we found out the truth about Snape.
Jamie: Yeah, but…
Ben: That Harry just happened – I mean, in all these books, everything, Harry just happened to be in the right place at the right time.
Ben: He just happens to go to the Shrieking Shack right as Voldemort is setting the snake on Snape. But, I mean – yeah, it was good.
Mikey: Are you saying that Snape was, you know, as great a wizard as Dumbledore?
Jamie: Well, no. I think Snape – I’ve always maintained that there’s like three different hierarchies of wizard and witch. You have Voldemort and Dumbledore right at the top. And this is shown in Book 7, really, when the teachers are talking about how they can keep Voldemort out of Hogwarts. And they say, “Anything we do is not going to work for long. You know, this person can duel all of us. Everyone here, and beat us all. Especially with Dumbledore gone.” And then under there you have Snape. And I can’t think of another person, except perhaps Bellatrix, who has the same magical power as Snape. Voldemort obviously seriously respected him, even when he tried to kill him. Or did kill him.
Ben: Well it’s interesting you point out the hierarchy. Because at the end there you see Bellatrix dueling three of the students at Hogwarts, at one time. And one of them was Hermione. So, you know she’s for real. You know what I mean?
Jamie: Who? Who?
Ben: Hermione. It isn’t like – Hermione, there’s no joking about her.
Jamie: There is, but no where near as…
Ben: But you know who steps in. Molly Weasley. Give it up for Molly Weasley!
Andrew: That was the surprise of the book. [laughs] That was definitely one of the biggest surprises of the book. Who would have thought Molly Weasley would have ended up killing Bellatrix?
Jamie: Yeah, but more surprising than that was what she called Bellatrix when she…
Andrew: I know!
Mikey: Get away from daughter…
Ben: A witch?
Snape: Good or Evil Doesn’t Matter
Dakota: I’m just wondering – I’m Dakota Sellerman from Kingsport, Tennessee. I’m wondering why everyone has to think Snape’s good or evil. Why do we have to choose a side? I mean, sure he’s a slimey git. But in the grand scheme of things he helps Harry a lot. I mean, without Snape, Harry’d probably be dead.
Jamie: He would be dead. Completely.
Ben: This is the exact point, I think, Jamie was trying to make.
Jamie: Yeah, but…
Mikey: He’s still mean.
Jamie: I don’t know. I just think he’s up there with Dumbledore in terms of who we respect from the books with everyone else.
Ben: Right. But, Mikey, wouldn’t you agree that in times of crisis someone will show their true colors? And the fact that Snape at that – you know after all, he was good. He killed Dumbledore despite that he didn’t want to…
Mikey: Okay, you’re right. I give up my opinion.
Mikey: You’re right. Snape was a great guy. I’m going to change Houses from Gryffindor to Slytherin now.
Mikey: Completely Slytherin all the way! No, not at all.
Ben: No, I’m not asking you to do that. I’m asking you to just have some respect for the man.
Mikey: I do. I do. And he did a great job, you know, protecting. The silver doe got them the sword of Gryffindor. You know he did a lot. Okay? But, again, he was still mean.
Jamie: We should take a minute of silence for Snape. Out of respect.
Andrew: It’s too long. We don’t have time for that.
Mikey: Nobody wants to sit in silence for a minute.
Snape is “No Hero”
Audience Member: All right, you shouldn’t give up. Because, even though I love Snape, I am up here to defend you. [laughs]
Mikey: Thank you. Thank you.
Audience Member: Because on the Today Show interview, Jo did say, “He is no hero,” in reference to Snape.
Audience Member: Yeah. She said that, which actually surprised me.
Jamie: She’s wrong.
Audience Member: Oh, yes. I know. She’s obviously wrong, since she wrote the books.
Jamie: Yes, she is.
Audience Member: But she doesn’t know everything.
Mikey: You know, she did compare her characters to salsa. We know that now.
Mikey: So, she might be wrong. Even though I’m hurting myself in this argument.
Andrew: Did she say anything else about Snape? Like…
Audience Member: Yeah, she…
Andrew: Said he was a what?
Audience Member: Someone else here has seen the interview? [laughs] Yeah, but…
Andrew: Sorry, said he was a what? I couldn’t…
Audience Member: A bully.
Andrew: A bully. OKay.
Audience Member: She pointed out…
Andrew: Okay. That’s what he is.
Mikey: Really! Come on.
Audience Member: He was a greasy git. And then someone actually asked – One of the children there – they were allowed to ask questions – and one person asked, if Snape did not love Lily, would he have saved Harry? And Jo said no, he would not have saved Harry.
Andrew: Mmmm, iinteresting.
Mikey: You know, I think this goes back to the first book when Fred and George tell Harry, “Don’t worry. That’s Professor Snape. He hates everyone.” He’s not just a jerk to Harry, he’s a jerk to everyone.
Andrew: But this is what we were saying. Lily played a big role in Snape’s decision to save Harry. So, I mean that’s part of the argument.
Mikey: So, he’s redeemed for one thing. Not the thousands of things he’s done. He’s been redeemed for one thing. Not killing Harry.
Ben: Okay, okay. But shouldn’t you be sympathetic of his situation, considering the way he grew up? I mean, wouldn’t we all be the same person had we been raised that way?
Mikey: Well, if that’s the case, then I should be sympathetic for Voldemort who killed thousands and thousands of wizards.
Ben: You should. Why shouldn’t you?
Mikey: You’re right, I should cry for all these people.
Jamie: We’ve been arguing at every single Podcast, whether Voldemort’s good or not. And Ben maintains that you have to have a degree of respect for him and a degree of sympathy towards him, considering the way he’s been brought up. The stuff he feels. You know, you’d feel sorry for a man who can’t feel the way a normal human can.
Mikey: Well, Dumbledore says…
Jamie: Then we point out that he killed millions of people.
Mikey: Yeah, thousands of people. But Dumbledore even says to pity Voldemort. He says, “ask him for remorse.” You know, to pity the living, pity Voldemort. Because we know what Voldemort’s going to become when he dies. We’ve seen his fractured soul. If you remember the King’s Cross Station chapter in Deathly Hallows, there’s this crying baby that’s mangled and deformed.
Jamie: Should we tell our theory?
Mikey and Jamie’s Theory
Mikey: Okay. Well, do you want to do it, Jamie? Because, well, we figured it out in the car ride. This is all we do on the car ride. Like, the five, six hours.
Ben: Besides argue.
Mikey: We just argue with each other about Harry Potter. I kid you not.
Jamie: And then it spills over, because we’ve been talking about Harry Potter.
Andrew: And what station on Sirius to listen to.
Mikey: Oh, yeah.
Jamie: We argue over everything.
Ben: Sirius. [laughs]
Mikey: Sirius Radio. [laughs]
Andrew: Sirius Radio.
Mikey: You know we listen to Sirius Radio.
Ben: We just tune into PotterWatch. And, you know…
Ben: As we’re going down the highway.
Andrew: We listen to Howard.
Mikey: Yeah, no.
Andrew: Stern? Okay. Just kidding.
Mikey: See, we listen to Sirius Radio. And then we come to libraries and listen to Remus rock ‘n roll.
Andrew: Yeah. [laughs]
Ben: Okay, so your theory?
Jamie: Okay, the theory is, when Harry comes to King’s Cross Station. And then, right at the end when Dumbledore says this is basically in your mind, we think it is in his mind. And that relates to the whole Horcrux thing. And that baby is the part of Voldemort’s soul that has latched itself onto Harry. And that baby is going to die. As Dumbledore says, that is the end. Because Harry has also died. Allegedly, that soul cannot – and I’m losing myself here. That soul cannot go back to where Harry has just come from because it’s evil and maimed and deformed. And the symbolism, the pure baby is seen as a pure piece of unviolated soul. But because it’s deformed and angry and crying, it’s a piece of soul that’s been violated. Now, Harry tries to help it because that’s in his nature. But Dumbledore’s there to say, “You cannot help this thing. Now it’s up to you. You can either join it and get on the train and go to the netherworld or you can go back to where you’ve come from and save the day.”
Mikey: Yes, like he does. Because that’s Harry’s job.
Jamie: Well, Okay. He has help to save the day, doesn’t he, Ben? Should we get into this? About Hermione always helping him and giving him the helping hand?
Ben: Yeah. Okay, without Hermione, Harry would be absolutely hosed. I mean…
Ben: Seriously. She’s the one who figures everything out. He doesn’t…
Jamie: He always wakes up, you know, after fainting, and Hermione’s there, breathless, saying, “That was a close call, Harry, wasn’t it?”
Ben: Yeah. That’s like all of Book 7. Besides that, they were just camping out. Going from place to place. That was really kind of weird, I thought.
Mikey: Back to the Snape discussion. Let’s go ahead. We have those people waiting.
Comparing Voldemort, Snape and Harry to The Three Brothers
Elise: My name’s Elise. And this kind of goes back to the Voldemort-Snape-Harry parallel. It’s just something that occurred to me. With the three brothers, with the Deathly Hallows, how Voldemort’s almost like the one with the wand. He wants the power. And Harry’s, you know, Dumbledore even says he’s the Master of Death. And then Snape would be the one with the Resurrection Stone. And I was kind of trying to draw a connection there. It almost seems like with Snape, we’re always seeing in the memories. And he’s so caught up in the past. And how the Resurrection Stone, it can’t actually bring people back. But you just see like their ghost or their imprints. I don’t know, it was just kind of an interesting parallel, I thought.
Jamie: That’s extremely good, because he’d want that over everything so he could bring Lily back.
Andrew: Good point.
Jamie: Very good.
Robbie Fischer’s Two Cents
Robbie: Sorry to take time away from the younger fans here. My name’s Robbie Fischer and I’m from St. Louis. I’m from the Book Trolley.
Ben: From MuggleNet! Give him a round of applause!
Andrew: All right! Yeah! Good stuff.
Robbie: I’m partly up here just to rub shoulders with some famous people.
Mikey: Jamie Lawrence, everybody. Famous.
Robbie: But I do have a comment about Snape. I think he’s not a good person. I think he’s pretty much a vile, loathsome, mean-spirited person.
Robbie: But he’s a sad and tragic one, as well. Because of his love for Lily and that he couldn’t save her – he tried and it didn’t work – He doesn’t like Harry. He never likes Harry and I think he actually dislikes him more than the average student. But he stills stick up for him because he is Lily’s little baby. And he’s all that’s left of Lily. And I think one of the most poignant moments in the whole series are Snape’s dying words, “Look at me.”
Jamie: I don’t even know what to say to that.
Ben: Robbie Fischer, everybody.
Ben: In case you don’t know, he runs the Book Trolley, which is a section on MuggleNet where you have various book reviews for – particularly now it’s going to become more relevant than ever, since Harry Potter’s done, we’re going to be looking for other things to read. So, check out the Book Trolley.
Andrew: MuggleNet.com/BookTrolley. All one word. Yay!
Jamie: Mikey, how can you be angry at someone whose dying wish is for the son of the person he loved to look at him just so he can get a glimpse into the eyes of the woman that he once loved?
Ben: One last glimpse in the eyes. Yeah, wow!
Mikey: He was still a jerk.
Mikey: I’m not even going to defend it anymore. He was. That’s it.
Jamie: He was. That’s true.
Andrew: Oooo. Thunder.
Ben: It’s the ghost of Severus Snape.
Ben: He’s coming back to haunt Mikey.
Jamie: Mikey, you are in some serious trouble tonight.
Mikey: Oh no.
Andrew: Ben, you want to…
Mikey: We have a few more people, Ben.
Ben: Oh. Sorry.
Andrew: We’ll take these last three and then we’ll switch up the topic here. Discussion.
Cassidy: Hi, I’m Cassidy. And I just wanted to say, you know, I realized really early on into the seventh book that Snape was good, just because of the fact that he was able to get into the Headmaster’s office. Because if he would have…
Andrew: As in becoming Headmaster?
Cassidy: Because just because Voldemort says he’s Headmaster, doesn’t necessarily mean the school is going to accept him as Headmaster.
Andrew: Oh, right.
Cassidy: Unless the fact that, you know, he was actually there to do the school some good. Because, I mean, look Umbridge wasn’t able to get into the office.
Andrew: Oh, that’s a good point. Yeah.
Cassidy: You know, the Ministry said, “Hey, you’re Headmaster now,” but the school didn’t accept her. You know?
Cassidy: But the school accepted Snape as Headmaster, so he had to be good, you know, at some point in him because of the fact that, you know, the school accepted him as Headmaster. It accepted the fact that he was there to help students learn and everything. Even though he didn’t like Gryffindors too much.
Cassidy: You know, just based on the fact that, you know, he just thinks they’re all kind of too brave and too out there and everything. But, you know.
Andrew: I wonder if Dumbledore had any idea that Snape would become Headmaster?
Ben: Well, Okay, I hate to dash your point here, but…
Ben: Sorry, but Okay. Recently in the Today Show interview Jo said that when Voldemort died, the curse that was put upon the school on the Defense Against the Dark Arts position was lifted. So, if Dumbledore put any type of magic on his office in order to prevent someone who did not have good intentions for the school from entering the office, when he died those spells would have been lifted, allowing anybody to enter his office. So…
Jamie: I don’t know if that’s true, though. Because he would have made sure that all the enchantments…
Andrew: It’s a valid argument.
Jamie: No, no, it isn’t. Because he would have made sure that all the enchantments that he put on the castle to protect it would have existed after his death.
Ben: Well, no, no, no, no.
Jamie: I don’t think Dumbledore, who is the master of planning and making things, you know, flow and all that kind of thing, would never, ever leave his castle, his home, basically, the things that he’s protecting for all these years…
Ben: Right, but J.K. Rowling said that when the person dies, the enchantment dies with them.
Jamie: But, she didn’t particularly say with Dumbledore and Hogwarts. She meamt Voldemort and when he died. I can honestly…
Ben: No, no. She did reference other examples of it, too. So, I don’t know. I think it makes sense, what I said.
Jamie: We’ll have to disagree.
Mikey: Do you think Snape got a portrait on the wall?
Audience Member: Yes.
Mikey: Can you imagine him and Dumbledore just hanging out for all eternity, talking?
Mikey: [imitating Dumbledore] Severus! Wow!
Jamie: They play, like, “What If’s” so many times. “What happens if something had gone wrong on that tower and you hadn’t killed me, Severus?” And he’s like, “Dumbledore, let’s not get into this again.”
Mikey: [imitating Dumbledore] Sherbet lemon?
Jamie: Yeah, yeah.
Mikey: [Dumbledore imitation] Candy, Severus?
Miriam: Hi, my name is Miriam. And I just want to say I really liked the way the Lily-Snape plotline played out. I thought that it was really in character and that his love for her was genuine, but it was both obsessive and possessive, from beginning to end. And I liked the fact that it was there because, well I’m a little older than many of the Potter fans. And I’m just slightly younger than Snape was when he died. And I have to admit part of me was reading through some of the book going, “Okay, you were bullied as a kid. You’re teaching one of your tormentor’s children. But, come on, it’s been half a lifetime. Can you move on a little, Snape?” There was just this drama queen aura about him, I don’t know.
Miriam: But that explains it. And I’m glad she added that.
Ben: The point I would like to make is the only time we see James in the books, like through the Pensieve scenes and all those things, is when he’s being a jerk. Now, are women just attracted to arrogance? Is that, I mean…
Andrew: Lily was. [laughs]
Ben: Like, why? What would be so attractive about James, you know?
Andrew: Were any women here attracted to James?
[Some applause and laughter from the crowd]
Audience Member: Well, she says later, though, that in his sixth and seventh year he is way less arrogant and becomes – because we only see up into his fifth year. We never the time when they actually fall in love and that she’s attracted to him. Because she doesn’t like him, either, in any of the scenes that we see.
Andrew: Oh, that’s true. Yeah.
Mikey: Maybe James got the book, How to Charm a Witch.
Jamie: Yeah, he probably did.
Alice: I’m Alice. I’m from Springfield, Illinois.
[Crowd members cheer]
Andrew: Are you ready for the Simpsons premiere?
Alice: No. No, that’s in Vermont.
Andrew: Is there a Kwiki-Mart there? Did they redo a 7 Eleven into a Kwik-Mart?
Mikey: We almost stopped there last night.
Alice: You should have!
Andrew: We almost stopped there to see the Kwiki-Mart.
Jamie: I love how proud everyone here is of where they come from. Whenever, like, you say you’re from a place a cheer goes up.
Jamie: If it’s England, and I say, “Hi, I’m Jamie. I’m from London,” we’ll just have a conversation about how bad it is.
Jamie: “Oh, you’re from London are you? Sorry, me too.” You know.
Alice: I work at the Barnes and Noble there. And so we had the, you know, party…
Jamie: What? In London? That’s quite a trip every day.
Alice: Yeah. [laughs] No, in Springfield. So…
Alice: Yeah, we had a kick – kick-butt Harry Potter party. [laughs]
Andrew: Do you put all the MuggleNet books in the front of the store?
Alice: They were for awhile. I was the one that was pretty much pushing them. Anytime – there was another one that was like a green…
[Shouting from the crowd]
Andrew: Oh, she’ll call you after the show. She’s famous.
Lily’s Eyes and James’ Appearance
Alice: [laughs] But, anyway. I don’t know if this is really – Everyone’s probably noticed this and stuff. But I actually just thought of it tonight. Do you think the reason why Snape really didn’t like Harry was because he had Lily’s eyes, and he loved Lily. But he also very much resembled James. And do you think it just aggravated him a little more, because of that?
Mikey: Like a constant reminder that it was James that got Lily and not Snape, you know?
Andrew: It also could be annoying him that he can see Lily through Harry.
Alice: Yeah, and through James, too. Because he’s supposed to look so much like James.
Andrew: Yeah. Through both, basically.
Alice: Yeah. So…
Andrew: I guess, yeah. It’s always a constant reminder.
Jamie: True point. True point.
Alice: Yeah. That’s all. Thanks.
Andrew: Yeah. Good point. Good point.
Mikey: Last one and then we’ll – Last two and then we’re going to move on.
Andrew: Final two.
Mikey: Final two and then we’re going to move on.
Andrew: And there’s going to be plenty of room for other questions.
Edwina: Hi, I’m Edwina.
Andrew: From where? From where? We need…
Edwina: Oh, I’m from right here.
Mikey: Right here, from the library, everybody. From the library.
Snape’s Triumph Over Voldemort
Edwina: Yes, I do live in this library. No, I’m joking. [laughs] Well, anyway, I just had this interesting point to make back to your whole hierarchy thing. About how you thought Dumbledore and Voldemort were on the top. Well, in the Half Blood Prince you know how Bellatrix and Narcissa come to Snape. And Bellatrix asks Snape all these questions. “How do you know you’re really with us?” And Snape goes, “Don’t you think the Dark Lord asked me these questions himself?” And that kind of cools off Bellatrix. And she’s just kind of like, “Well, gee. Voldemort believes you.” So I kind of think that that was Snape’s triumph over Voldemort. That he managed to hoodwink Voldemort into believing that Snape was really evil. And I just kind of think that sort of proves something about Snape.
Jamie: I agree completely.
Andrew: Yeah, that’s a great point.
Jamie: No one can hoodwink Voldemort. And if Snape can, then he’s got to be pretty powerful.
Mikey: Oh. What’s up, dude?
Why Snape Joined the Dark Side
Alex: I’m Alex. I’m from Birmingham.
Andrew: Woo! Birmingham!
Mikey: Another Alex.
Alex: And I think Snape joined the Dark Side because he wanted to be a spy for Dumbledore and protect Harry.
Andrew: The basics. The basics, I love it.
Jamie: Me too. Me too.
Andrew: Very good point, Alex. All right, now we want to talk about…
Tangent: Jamie’s Challenge
Jamie: Should we do our debate first, since it links right in?
Andrew: Yes, sure
Mikey: Should we?
Andrew: A five minute – a quickie.
Jamie: A quickie, yeah. First of all, I’d like to say, I’ve a challenge for everyone out there. I would love to see Dumbledore and Snape arguing it out as portraits in the Head Office. So, if anyone can do that, I want to see it on YouTube in two weeks, Okay?
Jamie: Two weeks is the thing, because I just want to see them arguing, being, “Cut your beard, Dumbledore.” “I’ll cut my beard if you wash your hair, Severus.” Okay.
Jamie: “Well, I’ll wash my hair. You’re a bad Headmaster.” “Me?”
Mikey: “You killed me!”
Jamie: Yeah, “you killed me.” “Don’t bring that up again.”
Mikey: “You told me to.”
Jamie: Yeah. Debate?
Mikey: We can go on all day.
[Crowd member says something]
Andrew: Actually, well, we got the…
Jamie: I don’t know.
Andrew: …one voice.
Jamie: Yeah, you can be…
Mikey: You can be Dumbledore, Ben.
Ben: [imitating Dumbledore] “It’s our choices, Harry.”
Andrew: He’s going to have to say more than that, though. [laughs]
Jamie: Yeah, yeah…
Ben: Yeah, yeah. [laughs]
Jamie: I’ll be like, “I’m Snape, not Harry.”
Jamie: And then you just keep saying it.
Jamie: This is a winner, Ben, we should get on this right away.
MuggleCast 102 Transcript (continued)
Debate: How Should Snape Be Remembered?
Jamie: Anyway, small tangent then. We’re going to do a debate, which if – we haven’t had this section on the show for a while, but basically we have to sides: Mikey and Andrew, me and Ben. And each of us takes a side of a certain argument and then we argue it as if our lives depended on it. We don’t necessarily believe in what we argue, we’re just taking the side that we’re given. So today our debate is – and I don’t know how to word this exactly about Snape – it’s Snape is…
Jamie: Okay, Snape should be remembered as a hero, not as a jerk.
Jamie: So, I assume you want the negative side, Mikey.
Mikey: No actually I want to do hero, so that we…
Jamie: You want hero? Okay.
Mikey: I want to think, I want to work this through.
Jamie: Okay then, should we do he’s remembered as a jerk? We can do that.
Ben: No, no, no, let’s see here…
Mikey: Oh, okay, just because you’ve been planning this for the entire car ride for five hours.
Ben: We haven’t planned anything.
Jamie: That’s not true at all.
Ben: Okay, we haven’t planned anything we were asleep on the car ride. You were there, thank you.
Mikey: I was asleep, I didn’t see anything.
[Jamie says something and the crowd laughs]
Mikey: Time’s a wasting, guys. Really, what side are you on?
Ben: Okay, we’ll do the jerk side then.
Jamie: Okay, fine.
Ben: If you want to prove he’s a hero. You guys start then, be our guests.
Jamie: You start.
Andrew: No, you start.
Ben: No, you guys need to start.
Jamie: No, no, no, we got moved around.
Andrew: Okay, we’re defending what?
Ben: You’re saying Snape’s a hero.
Andrew: You spin this one and I’ll bounce off you.
Mikey: What has Jamie been saying? I’m trying to think.
Andrew: Well, but that doesn’t explain why Snape’s a hero. Because we’ve been talking about Lily.
Jamie: It does.
Mikey: Snape being an unsung hero. Really, it comes down to the fact that he protected the lives of millions of people by giving his own life, and providing that crucial information for Harry to be able to go back and give his life for everybody, and then defeat the darkest wizard of their age.
Jamie: You’re absolutely right, Mikey, but as Alex from the Remus Lupins has often said, one good thing is not enough to absolve someone of a lifetime of bad crimes. And you can’t judge someone just on what they’ve done in one part of their lives, you know? A life is a life for a reason.
Ben: How does that one act…
Ben: …act as an eraser to erase all the…
Jamie: For being such a jerk, Mikey.
Ben: …terrible things he’s done, Mikey.
Andrew: Because he died!
Mikey: Okay, okay, okay, it’s because he asked almost for forgiveness. You know when you ask for forgiveness, no matter what you’ve done…
Jamie: But did he?
Ben: Do you really think that Snape would say he really felt sorry for how he treated Harry?
Jamie: Let’s get it back…
Mikey: Did he?
Jamie: …to a debate.
Mikey: Back to the debate. Ummm…
Jamie: Instead of, “Did he, Ben? Yeah.”
Ben: Yeah, he did.
Mikey: Yeah. Well, it’s almost like an ask for forgiveness, remorse. Even Harry asked, you know, “Voldemort, show remorse for what you’ve done.” I’ve seen what you can become. Even Grindelwald, Dumbledore felt the he had shown remorse. You can change who you are. It’s your choices which you make in the end.
Jamie: How can you call someone a hero who teaches at a school and is so mean to the children that they think about it all day? Harry is often wondering, “Why is Snape is so mean to me?” How can you ruin someone’s childhood like that?
Andrew: It didn’t ruin his childhood.
Andrew: Just because Snape treated kids poorly doesn’t mean he can’t become a hero.
Jamie: He treated children poorly. The people who are going to grow up…
Andrew: It doesn’t matter what kind of tone you put your sentence in, it still doesn’t prove a point.
Jamie: …to be the next generation. He treats them poorly in a school, a magical school. All he has to do is be nice to them and then right at the end of the day he dies just to save one boy, who he didn’t even care about. Amen.
Ben: You guys have anything to say to that?
Andrew: Listen, Snape…
Jamie: Is not nice.
Andrew: Snape… Huh?
Jamie: He’s not nice.
Andrew: It doesn’t matter if he’s nice or not. That doesn’t explain if he’s a hero or not.
Ben: We’re not arguing if he was a hero or not. How should he be remembered? Is what we’re saying.
Andrew: Snape should be remembered as someone who helped Harry in the end of the book when Harry went into the Pensieve and saw…
Ben: Right, you’re saying…
Andrew: …all that in the one chapter.
Ben: You’re supposed to be saying he’s a hero. So…
Andrew: I’m saying he’s a hero because he helped Harry out. He gave Harry all this crucial information all compacted into one. It jumped from one memory to the next, to the next, to the next. Snape had this all prepared.
Jamie: Only at the point of death. “Oh my god, I have to do this thing.”
Mikey: And, wait, hold on, let me finish. You guys, let us finish, let us finish.
Jamie: I’m sorry.
Mikey: And to top it off, Harry gave what I feel is probably one of the greatest respects to Snape by naming one of his sons after him. Saying he was the bravest wizard he knew.
Andrew: Right, so you need to trust Harry.
Mikey: Even the person that is glorified by everyone, Harry Potter, the Chosen One, the one that survived, the one that lived, the one that killed the Dark Lord…
Ben: I wonder where he got that argument from?
Mikey: …names his children…
Mikey: [laughs] I don’t know.
Ben: Sounds really familiar.
Jamie: Are we going to – Ben, Ben…
Mikey: Are you guys saying…
Ben: No, we can answer that, that’s fine.
Mikey: I’m just saying he named his son Albus Severus.
Jamie: Are we going to trust, you know – Mikey’s saying that the reason Snape is obviously an unsung is hero is because Harry called his children after him. But are we going to trust someone who doesn’t know any spells other than Expelliarmus.
Ben: And who names his kid Hugo?
Jamie: And who names their kid Hugo?
Ben: I mean, seriously.
Mikey: He didn’t name…
Ben: Or was that Ron and Hermione?
Mikey: That was Ron and Hermione.
Ben: Who cares?
[All talking at once]
Ben: Okay but anyways, anyways, the fact of the matter remains is that the initial choice Snape made way back when was to become a Death Eater, was to do all these horrible things. He created havoc, created destruction…
Jamie: The prophecy, the prophecy.
Ben: Created destruction.
Jamie: He told Voldemort the prophecy. He is an engineer of destruction in the Harry Potter universe and that’s…
Andrew: How does someone who plays Voldemort like that not – cannot be considered a hero?
Jamie: Because he was…
Andrew: You have to give him a lot of credit for getting in…
Ben: Here’s what I think we have to do. We have to consider the first half of Snape, before Snape redeemed himself. He has all that negative ground there, okay? Then after it, once he did all the spying, once he sacrificed himself, those two halves cancel each other out. So the only thing we have to go off of is how he treated people during his day to day life…
Jamie: As Sirius said…
Ben: …when he was very angry and very mean…
Mikey: Now, Ben…
Ben: …to his students.
Mikey: Now the reason Snape did not go to Azkaban was because Dumbledore said, “He turned from the Dark Lord to become a spy for us.”
Jamie: He was just in the right place at the right time.
Mikey: So… [laughs]
Andrew: See you…
Andrew: In Jo’s writing you saw all the bad scenes with Snape. I’m sure he was doing some good things, too.
Jamie: Andrew, Andrew here’s one, Sirius.
Andrew: I’m sure he was cooking for other people and cleaning.
Jamie: Oh, that’s…
Mikey: All right, all right, hold on. He made the Wolfsbane potion for Remus Lupin every single month while he was a teacher there. He stopped the poison in Dumbledore when the ring, you know, when he put the ring on. He…
Jamie: What could he do? Stand there and be like…
Mikey: Why not?
Jamie: [singsong] “Look at your hand, look at your hand.”
Mikey: If he was really a bad guy…
Andrew: He killed Dumbledore when Dumbledore asked him to. That’s a big step.
Mikey: He didn’t want to…
Andrew: That takes a lot of guts, as well.
Mikey: What did Dumbledore say, Ben, because I know you like to say it. Was it Severus please? Something like that.
Ben: [imitating Dumbledore] “Severus, please.”
Mikey: He wasn’t asking – Dumbledore was not asking for his life. He was asking Severus to do the ultimate in commitment to him. The ultimate for the good. He is an unsung hero.
Jamie: Yeah, which he did after a lifetime of being…
Jamie: …a jerk.
Andrew: Final, final thoughts.
[All talking at once]
Mikey: We’ll ask the crowd in a second, okay?
Ben: Can I just make a point here. The one point we need to make is that despite the fact that Snape was able to redeem himself at the end of this life, his redemption came at the price – he’s redeeming himself for all the negative and terrible things…
Jamie: And it didn’t add up.
Ben: …that he did.
Ben: So, if anything you cannot remember Snape as a hero, you have to remember him as just, you know…
Jamie: And one final thing…
Ben: …just a person.
Jamie: Sirius said, “If you want to judge a man…” – and we are judging a man, this is the whole matter of this debate – “If you want to judge a man, you look how he treats his inferiors.” And Snape, as a teacher at Hogwarts, treated his, in terms of power, his inferiors, very, very, very badly. And because of that you cannot remember him as an unsung hero, even nearly, can you, Ben?
Ben: Right. And so using the criteria of Sirius Black, Snape was…
Andrew: Hey, we said final points, come on.
Ben: Snape is…
Mikey: Final, final points.
Andrew: Mikey, your final thought. Our final thoughts.
Mikey: My final thoughts, Snape was a hero. It hurts me to say that, but Snape was a hero.
Andrew: If Mikey can say it, why can’t you?
Mikey: If I can say it…
Andrew: Let’s ask the audience now.
Mikey: Let’s ask the audience.
Andrew: We’ll do show of hands first and then – Ben and Jamie like to think this isn’t a fair way of seeing who’s right or wrong. Who agrees with Mikey and I? That Snape is a hero? Okay, that looks like a lot of people.
Jamie: That’s about one percent of everyone here, Ben, would you agree?
Andrew: Ben and Jamie look around. All right, who agrees with Ben and Jamie that Snape is not a hero? Why do you keep taking these sides that are – you can’t win?
Mikey: It’s because I flipped it on them. We won yesterday but – by the crowd at least.
Ben: You didn’t win yesterday. That’s the difference.
Andrew: Well, we have an audio file to prove it.
Mikey: Yeah, whatever.
Jamie: We’ll discuss this later in the car.
Andrew: All right, I think we will.
Ben: And by the end of the car ride we’ll have them convinced that Snape…
Ben: …wasn’t a hero.
Andrew: We’ll post an update.
Mikey: I’m okay with that one.
Andrew: To wrap up the show today, let’s discuss – does anyone have any thoughts about the book.
Ben: Hold on a second. Alex Carpenter, is Snape a hero? [pause] Yeah! It’s his concert, he calls the shots, we win. There we go.
Mikey: You win? But that’s my opinion.
Andrew: Anyone have any thoughts about the book that they want, any questions about the book? Something…
Jamie: Any opinions.
Mikey: Or about the encyclopedia that’s coming out.
Andrew: Or anything recently?
Andrew: Recent in the news?
Kristen: Okay, actually my Mom came up with this. I’m Kristen from Eureka. And we’re actually a Harry Potter fan club called the D.A. and my mom is the teacher sponsor. And she came up with this: What do you guys think if when Harry summons on the stone, ring, Resurrection Stone, if they – the spirits come through the Veil. Because Jo did say we were going to see the Veil.
Mikey: How would they get there that fast? Are they like flying? Or – my question is, how did they get to…
Jamie: I like that.
Mikey: …Hogwarts that fast? That’s a really cool idea, but how would they get to Hogwarts fast enough?
Audience Members: Magic.
Mikey: Magic. It’s magic! Who would guess the series would have magic in it, really?
Mikey: Wow, okay.
Jamie: That is a shocker.
Andrew: Here’s the thing that gets me. The Veil was just – wasn’t in the book at all, especially since Jo said that.
Mikey: Except on the U.S. cover, right, guys?
Andrew: Yeah. No, it wasn’t.
Jamie: There was so much…
Mikey: I know.
Jamie: …that didn’t go into the books, though, that we thought was going to go in. There was the Veil…
Mikey: The reprieve.
Jamie: The Ford Anglia. Yeah…
Mikey: The reprieve would happen in Book 5 not Book 7.
Jamie: And there was the Mirror of Erised. You know, all these things.
Mikey: I would’ve liked to see that bird again.
Andrew: We’ve got a nice little line forming now. Okay, you next.
Mikey: Oh, wow. Everyone wants to get their question in.
Audience Member: Sorry. What did you guys think of Ginny being such a background character in this? The last couple of books have built up her…
Mikey: I shed a tear.
Audience Member: The last couple of books have built up to her being so strong. And then she’s just like – the last image we have of her prior to the epilogue is her crying on her mom’s shoulder.
Audience Member: I mean, that’s such a weak image and she was supposed to be so strong, but she wasn’t and…thoughts?
Ben: You know, it really, really bothered me that at the end there when her parents are like, “Oh, Ginny, you can’t fight, you can’t do all these things,” when she’s out there – already been out there and done it, you know? That just really made me mad. Sorry.
Mikey: I was a little upset but…
Jamie: That’s annoying – sorry.
Jamie: Go, Mikey.
Mikey: I was a little upset, but I think it set up for my favorite scene. The Molly Weasley.
Mikey: Coming after Bellatrix.
Andrew: Give it up for Molly Weasley!
Mikey: Come on! Is she like…? Can you imagine – I can’t wait until the movie. I really can’t wait until the movie. Can you imagine Molly Weasley throwing her cloak and going, “Get away from my daughter, you witch!”
Mikey: And just like crazy, and just like crazy with the spells. It would be amazing. I just can’t wait.
Andrew: All right, next question. We’ve got to move through these fast. We’ll cut it off at whoever’s at the end there.
Harry Behind the Veil
Kristen: I’m Kristen from Webster Groves. I had an idea. Why couldn’t Harry have been behind the Veil when he was talking to Dumbledore, at the end?
Andrew: Well, because…
Mikey: He wasn’t in the Department of Mysteries.
Andrew: …the chapter was “King’s Cross.”
Jamie: Yeah, but…
Andrew: Weren’t they at King’s Cross?
Jamie: Yeah, but you can still be beyond the Veil.
Ben: Yeah, but he wasn’t actually at King’s Cross.
Jamie: Yeah, they weren’t like…
Andrew: Well, but…
Ben: They didn’t close it down so that…
Andrew: Wouldn’t… [laughs] I know, I know.
Ben: …Voldemort and Harry could come in there and Dumbledore could have the answer.
Andrew: Okay, all right, all right.
Mikey: I have the answer.
Andrew: How would talking through the Veil get you to King’s Cross?
Jamie: No, the sign.
Andrew: Not literally.
Ben: Okay, okay, do you know what happens when you died? I haven’t died yet so I don’t know.
Andrew: I don’t know, either.
Mikey: I know why it can’t be there, because Sirius wasn’t there talking with them. It was just Dumbledore.
Jamie: Yeah, but the Veil could be a big place.
Ben: Why? Why? Who says that…
Mikey: Because that’s where he went through.
Ben: But who says…
Mikey: I’m joking, okay? Just stop.
Ben: It wasn’t a requirement…
Mikey: Just stop. I’m joking, okay? It was a bad joke, no one laughed. Leave it alone, sorry.
Ben: Awww. Poor Mikey.
Casey: I’m Casey from Belleville, Illinois.
Casey: Represent. Quick comment. At least Snape and all the male characters in Harry Potter should be sympathetic because they always fall for the wrong girl first.
Casey: That should be a theme for you guys. I mean that’s a theme for me in my life, you know? No…
Casey: Yeah. Once Voldemort casts the Avada Kedavra curse on Harry and the little part of Voldemort in Harry died, could Harry – do you think Harry could still speak Parseltongue?
Andrew: We had this question yesterday.
Casey: All the powers associated with Voldemort, does Harry still have that?
Andrew: I don’t think so. Because didn’t…
Ben: No, because Dumbledore – in Dumbledore’s explanation he said that was where the powers came from.
Andrew: Yeah. Yeah. Next.
Mikey: And also, just a little quick comment on that, also about being able to open the Chamber of Secrets, you need to be able to use Parselmouth or Parseltongue.
Mikey: And again, Ginny was able to open it because she had part of Voldemort’s soul. Harry was able to…
Jamie: I was saying that…
Andrew: But so could Ron. So could Ron.
Jamie: That was the modernized thing in the book.
Mikey: …repeated it over and over again.
Jamie: Yeah, but still it’s like…
Jamie: That doesn’t seem to work on anything.
Jamie: Ron speaking Parseltongue. Sorry, go on.
Magical Powers Late in Life
Audience Member: Hi, I’m from the D.A. Eureka.
Audience Member: And I was wondering, did you guys figure out who got the magical powers, like…
Audience Member: …late in life.
Andrew: That’s weird. We had a few…
Jamie: Well, we thought of a few people…
Audience Member: Yeah, so did we.
Jamie: …but none of them worked. Various…
Andrew: There was no clear explanation.
Audience Member: Yeah.
Andrew: And that’s going to have to be answered…
Audience Member: In the encyclopedia.
Andrew: …in on of these million interviews that Jo is doing.
Jamie: She’s probably doing it online. She’ll probably just answer on her website.
Andrew: There’s a chat Sunday.
Audience Member: Have Micah say it.
Andrew: There’s an online webchat on Sunday, so hopefully that question gets posed to her. Everyone wants to know that. Good.
Audience Member: Yeah.
Andrew: Next. We’ve got to move through quick, move through quick.
Brynn: Hi, I’m Brynn again from Eureka and I want to say this for my mom because she – when they were talking about Harry and the little picture of him on his toy broomstick, and talking about how he almost killed the cat, they were wondering what happened and he wondered in his head what happened to the cat. So my mom thought maybe…
Brynn: …it was Crookshanks yeah, because they said that Crookshanks was at that pet place for forever.
Brynn: So maybe, hopefully, someone will ask Jo…
Brynn: …and see if it’s right or not.
Mikey: Maybe we’ll see that in the flashback scene in the movie.
Ron Speaking Parseltongue
Peter: Hi, I’m Peter.
Devon: And I’m Devon. We’re brother and sister. We’re always on road trips when the books come out and it gives us a lot of chance to read them and talk about them but one thing that we really wondered about and that bothered me a lot was that Ron was able to open the Chamber of Secrets using Parseltongue, because I always viewed it more as a gift than as a language that can be learned, and so that’s what bothered me a lot about it.
Ben: Yeah, I don’t think – do you think it can be learned or it can’t?
Devon: I don’t think it can.
Jamie: I think it’s ridiculous.
Ben: Yeah, I don’t think it can. Yeah, I think it’s also a gift. I was under the impression that only the heir of Slytherin can open up the Chamber of Secrets, so, you know, if Ron just walks up there… [hisses]
Ben: …and hisses at the thing and it magically opens, I mean – it fit into the plot well.
Devon: He had the Horcrux.
Ben: Oh, that’s right, he had it around his neck, didn’t he? Yeah, so I guess it was he was disguised as the heir of Slytherin.
Andrew: Oh, he did, yeah. That could be it. Wow.
Ben: But still, you can’t just go [hisses] and expect it to open.
Jamie: Well, you might be able to.
Mikey: You can’t but I could.
Andrew: All right, next.
Jessalyn: Hi, my name is Jessalyn.
Jessalyn: I’m from Edwardsville, Illinois, and I’m actually one of your transcribers.
Andrew: Oh, awesome.
Audience Member: Give it up for MuggleCast.
Andrew: Mugglenet dot com slash mugglecast slash transcripts.
Ben: They work really hard.
Andrew: Something like that.
Jessalyn: Yeah. But my questions was, at King’s Cross station – well, Dumbledore was there also, how did Dumbledore not go on and how is he at Harry’s, like, when he dies? I understand that he had to be there, like, you know, to tell him what happened and everything, but I don’t really understand why – like how he could be there?
Ben: Good question. Jo – at the end there, Dumbledore tells Harry that it’s all in his mind. So, I don’t know, I guess again, it’s – you don’t know what happens when you die. So…
Ben: Maybe Dumbledore will be there when we die, too.
Ben: Who knows? Wouldn’t that be sweet?
Andrew: All right.
Mikey: Yoda will be there when I die.
Ben: [imitating Dumbledore] “It is our choices, Ben.”
Andrew: [laughs] Let’s get these five really quick. We have to move really quick.
Shay: I’m Shay from Floreson.
Is Bellatrix Dead?
Shay: Yeah! But, oh, yeah.
Shay: Almost, like, all the websites are talking about how Bellatrix is dead and I – it never really states that she’d actually died. And plus I don’t think Molly could’ve actually killed anyone.
Andrew: Well, that’s why – see, Someone’s upset.
Andrew: It wasn’t stated – everyone sort of just assumed, didn’t they?
Andrew: Guess I’ll have to reread that, but…
Andrew: Yeah, yeah.
Ben: I don’t know.
Andrew: We’ll have to look into that.
Mikey: We’ll look into that.
Ryan: I’m Ryan from Floreson, again.
Andrew: Wooo! Okay, question.
Snape IS a Hero
Ryan: Back to Snape again, sorry, I know it’s been done a few times, but in Order of the Phoenix he goes to the Order after Harry says, “They’ve got Padfoot,” which is another reason that proves he’s a hero. That’s just…
Ben: I know, I’m just kidding. I actually – I do agree that he’s a hero. In a way.
Jamie: Me too. Me too.
Ben: In a way, but it’s not like I’m – I said that all along.
Andrew: Yeah, I get that.
Ben: We just took that side for the sake of arguing.
Ben: Because you guys need all the help you can get.
Vanished into Everything
John: Hi, I’m John. I’m from Festus, and I was wondering, when Professor McGonagall opens the Ravenclaw common room she answers a question, “Where do vanished objects go?” And she says they go into non-being, which means…
John: …everything. And I was wondering if that could be where Harry went, like, he was vanished into everything, if that was where he went when he went to King’s Cross.
Tangent: Back to Molly Weasley
Mikey: One second. Back to the Molly Weasley thing. We actually don’t know what spell she used; we just know it was a curse. But one thing that…
Andrew: Real quick.
Mikey: But one thing that it does say, I lost it a second ago.
Audience Member: What color was it?
Mikey: It doesn’t say. “‘Never touch my children again!’ screamed Molly Weasley. Bellatrix laughed the same exhilarated laugh that her cousin Sirius has given as he toppled backwards through the Veil. And suddenly Harry new what was going to happen before it did. Molly’s curse soared beneath Bellatrix’s outstretched arm and hit her squarely in the chest directly over her heart.” If we want to take it as the same curse that hit Sirius, it was a stupefy spell then. So, she toppled over and fell down, we don’t know what curse she used, so it doesn’t mean Bellatrix was dead. She might be in Azkaban again, who knows?
Ben: She might have snapped her neck on the way down, when she hit the ground thought. So…
Andrew: [laughs] Yeah.
Andrew: [laughs] All right, this guy right here.
Mikey: Wow, this crowd really hates Bellatrix.
Jeremy: Hi, I’m Jeremy from right here in St. Louis.
Jeremy: One thing that I kept thinking when I was reading the book was the movie, like it’s going to be so hard for them…
Andrew: That’s what I kept thinking.
Jeremy: Yeah. When you think about, for instance, when they go to Godric’s Hollow and they’re in Polyjuice Potion, think about they’re either going to have to have other actors playing, you know, Harry and Hermione in that scene, or they’re just going to have to cut that whole thing out. And they’re just not going to do it and their just going to get rid of that Polyjuice Potion part. And then also, I don’t know about you guys, but I’d love to see a three-and-half hour, four hour movie for that last one.
Andrew: That’d be a good way to end it.
Jeremy: Because so much is going on…
Jeremy: …you just want to see it all happen…
Jeremy: …and I don’t know if their going to…
Jamie: Well, hopefully they’ll do that for the seventh one. The sixth will be normal.
Andrew: Yeah, that’d be a great way to end it. This guy right here.
Mikey: I suggested maybe Peter Jackson, taken and doing like an eight-hour…
Jamie: Oh yeah, yeah.
Mikey: …Deathly Hallows film.
Andrew: Lastly, this guy.
Ben: I think an eight-hour movie would be boring, maybe that’s just me.
Jamie: Mikey, you should do it.
Mikey: I should do it. I’ll direct it.
Shawn: Shawn here from St. Charles, Missouri.
Shawn: Final question here: Where – in the beginning of the book the Dursleys left but it didn’t specify where they went. Any suggestions on…
Shawn: …where they went?
Andrew: That was upsetting, though, because we we were kind of looking forward to seeing them.
Jamie: Yeah. They just…
Andrew: Especially more of Dudley, maybe more of an explanation as to why he suddenly felt so attached to Harry but…
Jamie: No, we didn’t get anything about that.
Andrew: That’s epilogue material, oh sorry, encyclopedia material.
Andrew: All right, I think that that just about does it. Alex – oh, one last question.
Ben: Uh oh.
Alex: Hi. Hey, I’m Alex Carpenter from Los Angeles.
Mikey: Represent California.
Andrew: Why did you come all the way over here?
Alex: Because St. Louis is awesome.
Alex: Why else?
Alex: And I wanted to know if you guys shared my theory that Voldemort was actually a robot the entire time.
Mikey: I agree with you completely.
Alex: I have a lot of backup.
Jamie: Definitely, definitely.
Alex: I have boxes…
Andrew: Well, we have a wizard rock band coming up. We don’t have time to go into that.
Mikey: I’m sorry. [laughs]
Jamie: Alex, are you staying for the next show?
Mikey: I think everyone else here is going to also.
Jamie: Going to stick around?
Alex: Yeah, I’ll stick around for the…
Jamie: Stick around?
Andrew: You guys ready to see Alex and his band perform? Fantastic music!
Mikey: They’re really good.
Andrew: The Remus Lupins.
Mikey: You should stick around.
Andrew: Yeah. All right, thank you everyone for coming, we’ve got some great music coming up.
Jamie: Thank you very much.
Ben: But wait a sec…
Andrew: Oh, yeah.
Ben: Once again, thank you, Adam Bromberg, our merchandise guy, selling MuggleCast T-shirts along with Remus Lupins merch., right, Mikey?
Ben: And so go over there and pick up T-shirts, etc. from him. Adam Bromberg, give him a round of applause! He’s been driving us, he’s a great guy.
Andrew: [laughs] Looking miserable over there. Thank you, everyone.
Mikey: He’s tired. He drove six hours to get here.
Ben: Go Cardinals. Yeah.
Mikey: We slept. Bye, everybody.