MuggleCast 151 Transcript
[Intro music begins playing]
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[Harry Potter theme begins playing]
Jim Dale: [as Professor McGonagall] “This is Professor McGonagall welcoming you all to MuggleCast hoping you enjoyed – Dobby! Dobby, come here! Here! Dobby!” [as Dobby] “Yes, I’d just like to say how very pleased I am to introduce MuggleCast to all of you! Thank you! Thank you!”
[Show music begins playing]
Andrew: Because Google has the answer everything, this is MuggleCast Episode 151 for June 30th, 2008.
[Music continues to play]
Andrew: Umm…there’s nothing to talk about. I’m Andrew Sims.
Laura: I’m Laura Thompson.
Micah: I’m Micah Tannenbaum.
Matt: And I’m Matt Britton.
Andrew: All right, welcome to another episode. I’m sorry about the intro, guys, there’s just nothing to talk about this week for an intro.
Laura: I know. It’s – nothing’s going on.
Andrew: I worked nine to five today. I’m exhausted.
Laura: Yeah, me too.
Andrew: Micah, what’s in the news this week?
Micah: There’s nothing to talk about.
Andrew: Okay, let’s move on to Muggle Mail. No, but in all seriousness there’s nothing to talk about.
Laura: There’s two news items.
Micah: Actually there are two things to talk about. I’m going to add something into the mix, but – all right?
Andrew: Go for it.
News: Movie 6 Footage Shown in Amsterdam
Micah: But the biggest news of the week was that there was this cinema expo in Amsterdam and, apparently, Warner Brothers showed some brief footage of Half-Blood Prince as part of a past/future Harry Potter montage. And just wondering, what do you guys think about this? Why is it that, as Andrew put in bold caps locks, Amsterdam gets to see some of this but we’ve been waiting and haven’t seen anything for the past couple of months.
Andrew: This is what I don’t understand. Okay the Cine-Expo, it’s like a big movie expo where, you know, you see previews of upcoming films, and it looks like this is the first place that a Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince clip was played. But what I don’t get is – and I’m not going to yell – but why is it that these people in Amsterdam go to the Cina-Expo and get to see the clip, but the fans still have not seen a single video or a teaser trailer or some good pictures. We’ve seen like a total of two officially released pictures now, but Amsterdam, oh, let’s give them a big video but not the people that actually want to see the stuff.
Matt: Well, you don’t know that. People in Amsterdam – I mean…
Matt: That probably consists of like half the entire Harry Potter fanbase.
Andrew: The Cine – the Cine-Ex – the people who attended the Cini-Expo – the Cine-Expo. It’s just that it doesn’t make sense. I mean – what they did point there – actually, you’ll get to that, Micah. Nevermind.
Matt: Well, because actually Potter has made what? How much, Micah?
Micah: They made 4.48 billion dollars worldwide. That’s a lot of money.
Andrew: Yeah, that was the one interesting thing that came out of them playing. Apparently, it was a montage of clips of like clips of like Harry growing up, and Dan Radcliffe did a little intro video to introduce it. I just don’t understand, you know? It’s a real – the fans should be upset.
Laura: Well, here’s what I have to say.
Laura: This plus all the waiting we’ve been doing – this better be one hell of a teaser trailer.
Andrew: Hear, hear!
Andrew: Here’s to that.
Matt: Mhm. But I think its just upsetting that – I’m not really upset that they premiered like the first glimpse of all these little clips of Half-Blood Prince to that Cine-Expo, but I’m kind of upset why they didn’t make it public after they showed it.
Matt: I mean it’s one thing to like premiere it and then just like release to the Internet for people to see. Like – I mean – they did that with Order of the Phoenix, all that expo stuff, didn’t they? I mean…
Andrew: Yeah, I’m sure – I’m sure they did. I’m sure.
Matt: …they released a lot of stuff for Order of the Phoenix, but for Half-Blood Prince we haven’t seen one thing yet.
Matt: Nothing available that’s, you know, officially released by Warner Bros. that hasn’t been leaked.
Matt: But nothing’s even been leaked online yet.
Andrew: Well, not recently.
Matt: Yeah. Well, yeah. I mean except for the occasional one or two photos every six months.
Micah: What’s wrong with the photos? I mean I love the photos.
Andrew: Oh, I don’t know, Micah, you tell us.
[Andrew and Micah laugh]
Micah: Moving on. I – I just don’t understand what’s going on here. The later and later we get, aren’t we going to be due more for an actual trailer as opposed to just a teaser trailer?
Andrew: Yes. No, you’re right. Well, I think all eyes are on Dark Knight now to see what happens with that. Will there be a trailer?
Matt: Didn’t we all – I think all of us pretty much in the back of our minds knew it probably would have been Dark Knight, we just didn’t want it to happen.
Matt: Because that was too late. For me that’s a long wait.
Matt: I mean, we still have another month.
Laura: Well, not quite.
Andrew: Like two weeks now.
Matt: Okay, two weeks. But two weeks ago it was one month.
[Laura and Matt laugh]
Andrew: Actually, three weeks. Three weeks, but yeah. I don’t know. We’ll have to wait and see. What else is going on, Micah?
News: Jason Isaacs Interview
Micah: Well, the only other news of any note was Jason Isaacs did an interview with ComingSoon.net, and for some reason I always like reading the interviews that he does, because he’s really into the series. More so than, I think, a lot of the other actors and actresses. Is that fair to say?
Laura: Yeah, I think so, too.
Matt: He has the most fun with the role that he plays.
Micah: Yeah, he does, and it was just interesting reading what he had to say, and he said that he had seen J.K. Rowling at some charity dinner, or something along those lines, and he went over and asked about the seventh book, and she had told him that he was going to be in the opening chapter and that it made him pretty happy to hear that news, so…
Andrew: Free. You’re out in the opening chapter. Out of Azkaban.
Andrew: Which – yeah. That’s funny. I like how it says that Jo, like, looked over her shoulder to make sure, like, the paparazzi wasn’t like – who was she looking for… [laughs] …when she looked over her shoulder? Or maybe she was just doing that to be funny.
Laura: Hmm. Maybe…
Laura: …but I could see why she wouldn’t want tons of people to hear it.
Matt: I think she was just probably just, you know, being a sport. Like [whispers] “Okay, I’m going to tell you this big secret. You’re actually in the first chapter.”
Matt: [whispers] “But don’t tell anybody.”
Andrew: Not really a big secret though.
Matt: I know…
Andrew: I think the biggest…
Matt: …but I think she was just, you know, just playing around.
News: 80% Off Deluxe Edition
Andrew: Actually, one other thing I wanted to talk about. Well not – it’s just worth noting. 80% off the deluxe edition of Book 7 at Amazon right now.
Laura: Holy crap.
Andrew: One of our readers pointed this out to us. It’s a $65 dollar book. It’s on sale for $13.
Andrew: Must be trying to clear out inventory, right? What else could it be?
Andrew: Why else would they do that?
Laura: Holy crap.
Andrew: It also says something. It’s not selling very well. [laughs]
Laura: Yeah. Wow.
Andrew: Well, maybe that – I haven’t looked at the comments yet, but I assume people are saying, “This is another sign that this is the end!”
Matt: “The books, they all are dying.”
Andrew: “The books are at a bargin price. Fandom’s over.” Actually, no. Looks like most people were excited. That’s good.
Matt: I would actually buy it for $13 though.
Laura: Yeah, I’d be more…
Andrew: Especially if like…
Laura: …likely to buy it. Yeah.
Matt: I mean, I do like the cover and it’s got a little nice cardboard box – little frame.
Andrew: Yeah. And it’s got a nice – it’s got a nice large album – chapter art.
Andrew: In the beginning of the end.
Matt: Is the colored or is it just regular black and white?
Andrew: It’s regular. But it’s still bigger. You can see more. It’s cool.
Micah: Well, what you mentioned, though, Andrew, clearing out inventory. Isn’t the paperback coming out soon?
Andrew: Yes. Sometime in July, right?
Laura: Yeah, that would make good sense. I mean they usually come out about a year after, so…
Andrew: Right. Well, that does it for news, right? Nothing else really to discuss…
Matt: Yeah. It was a slow news week.
Announcement: Podcast Alley
Andrew: Better luck next week. In the announcements now, don’t forget to vote for us on Podcast Alley. I’m sure we’re number one right now. We thank everyone who’s been voting for us. Also, we have an update about Portus…
Micah: New month. There’s a new month, Andrew.
Andrew: Oh, that’s right. It’s going to be a new month very soon, so be sure to vote for us because it’s going to be Mugglecast Muly.
Matt: Muly [laughs]
Andrew: And get ready for MuggleCast Maugust. We need everyone to vote. Remember, every month that starts with an “m” you must vote for us. Starting with MuggleCast March, MuggleCast Mapril, May, Mune, Muly, Maugust, Moctober…
Laura: Did you miss – yeah.
[Matt and Micah laugh]
Andrew: Oh, sorry.
Matt: Yeah, you missed the most important month of the year.
Announcement: Portus Update
Andrew: Apparently I don’t know how the calender works. Anyway. Yeah, so update on Portus. Laura, what is the exciting news people will be very excited to hear?
Laura: [laughs] Well…
Laura: …the exciting news…
Andrew: What’s so funny?
Laura: …”that people will be excited to hear.” I just found it funny.
Andrew: Sorry. I stumbled over – okay, fine.
Laura: I’m just…
Andrew: Transcripters, edit that out please. Make it…
Andrew: …sound like I just spoke fluently.
Laura: Andrew, you know I just love giving you a hard time…
Matt: You don’t need to tell the transcribers. They know what they’re doing.
Andrew: I know.
Matt: They’re, like, smart.
Laura: Anyhow, what we’ve been talking about for the past, I don’t know, a month or so? You think, Andrew?
Andrew: About that.
Andrew: Yeah, a couple months.
Laura: The idea of doing a MuggleCast meet-up at Portus. And we’ve finally got that scheduled. It’s going to be on Saturday from 3-5 PM in the Common Room. So show up there and we’ll be there.
Matt: We’re going to have some chips and dip and maybe…
Laura: Maybe some games and stuff. We’re hoping for that.
Andrew: Yeah. We’re going to have to sit down at Portus or maybe beforehand and figure out what exactly – some activities we could do. I mean I’m sure people just want to socialize more then anything.
Matt: I don’t know. We could play, like, spin the bottle.
Andrew: Ooh, that’d be fun. Yeah, sure. 3-5 in the Common Room. That’d be a lot of fun. Full of MuggleCast fans hanging out with us a little longer than just, you know, the quick hello at the podcast afterwards.
Matt: Oh! Micah, we could play pin the tail on the goat.
Andrew: Oh yeah, someone suggested that.
Matt: It’s a good idea.
Andrew: Micah, could you organize that? Could you be the chair of goat games?
Matt: Can you find us a goat?
Laura: I’m sure he can.
Matt: Micah, are you even there?
Micah: I’m here. Yeah, I’m here. I’m just…
Laura: He’s finding a goat right now.
Micah: There are a lot of comments…
Micah: …that I could of had right there, and I chose not to…
Micah: …issue any of them.
Andrew: Thank you for taking the high road.
Micah: Because we would’ve had to edit out some MuggleCast, and I know Andrew doesn’t want to have to edit out any more then he has to.
[Matt makes a goat noise]
MuggleCast Fun FAQ
Andrew: Especially since this show is late. So thank you. MuggleCast Fun FAQ, I want to call this next segment. I got this e-mail from Janna, thirteen – er thirteen? I just completely made that up! I don’t know…
Micah: [laughs] There’s no age there at all.
Andrew: There’s no age there, and I said “thirteen.” From Virginia, she writes:
“Hey, I was just wondering how you get the episodes off the site. I really want to listen to some of the older ones. Also, will the podcast you do at Portus be released on the feed?”
Yes, the podcast will be released on the feed. Of course! And the question – the first question, “How do you get the episodes off the site – How do you get older episodes?”
Matt: You go on the website and go to “Episodes” page and then download whatever episodes you want.
Andrew: Right. We get this question a lot, so – so everyone knows, you go to MuggleCast.com, “episodes” page – every single episode that we’ve produced is there on the website for free download. You can’t put it in your little “Podcast” thing, like these are, if you are subscribed in iTunes, but you can get them on your iPod or any other mp3 or CD player. So…
Matt: I think it’s high time we have a “Frequently Asked Questions” page on MuggleCast.com.
Laura: Yeah, I think so too.
Andrew: We do! We do.
Matt: Well, then we should post that.
Andrew: Maybe if you guys checked the site and/or read the controls…
Laura: Oh there actually is. [laughs]
Matt: Maybe if you made it more – oh.
Andrew: See, I’m going to go to the “About” page, and if you scroll down you see “More FAQS.”
Matt: Yeah, but you have to go to “About.” It should be one of the tabs you click on.
Andrew: Look at this, at the very bottom.
Micah: Well, Matt, clearly they can’t click on the “Episodes” tab. What makes you think they’re going to click on the “FAQ” tab?
Andrew: [laughs] Yeah.
Matt: Oh, yeah.
Andrew: Yeah. There you go.
Matt: Well, sorry, guys, I tried to help you out, but…
One Last Plug for TwilightSource
Andrew: MuggleCast.com is your source for everything MuggleCast. So there you go. Just remember that. Lastly, just one last plug, and then we’re done. We’ve talked about TwilightSource.com, but this week Laura, Matt, Elysa and I have all started a brand new podcast for TwilightSource.com. It’s called Imprint. We just released the first episode a few days ago. It’s going to be released every other week. It’s going very well. It’s in the top ten podcasts in iTunes right now. That’s very exciting, isn’t it?
Matt: Yeah, it’s pretty exciting.
Laura: I couldn’t believe it when I heard. [laughs] I was just “Wow.”
Andrew: Yeah. It’s crazy to think, you know, you’ve produced two podcasts that…
Andrew: …are in the top ten. [unintelligible] So thank you to everyone who has listened, and if you were interested in listening to a Twilight podcast – Imprint – just search for it on iTunes, hit “Subscribe.” You can also go to TwilightSource.com.
Matt: And we can’t stress it enough that this is just an extra thing that we’re doing on our own time. It’s not going to interfere with MuggleCast in the least. So…
Andrew: We say that as this episode came out on Monday, and Imprint came out on like Thursday or Friday. [laughs]
Matt: [laughs] Well, we recorded it like on Sunday and Monday, though, so….
Matt: And yeah – so.
Micah: Well, in all fairness it’s more because of our schedules than anything else.
Andrew, Laura, and Matt: Yeah!
Laura: It really is.
Andrew: Now, Micah has this schedule that is impossible to work around, and we’ve just got to deal with it.
Matt: It’s Micah’s fault this was late.
Andrew: Yup. Not really. Who’s fault is it this week?
Laura: It’s mine. [laughs]
Andrew: It is yours, yes. But…
Laura: It’s okay.
Andrew: …it’s okay. We all have things that get in the way; it happens. Let’s move on to Muggle Mail this week. Matt, you want to take the first one?
Muggle Mail: Snape’s Memories
Matt: Yes I do, actually. Okay! Our first Muggle Mail comes from Fanny, 18, of Canada! Fanny writes:
“Hi, MuggleCasters! I was just listening to Episode 150 where some of you say you cried while reading chapter 34. It made me think of the previous episode, which I find quite disappointing, to be perfectly honest. You guys were reviewing “The Prince’s Tale” and completely skimmed over most of the memories and Snape’s actual death. I cried when Snape died because of the emphasis throughout the books placed on Harry’s eyes finally makes sense. Snape wanted the last things he ever saw to be the eyes of the woman he loved. So, furthermore, ‘Entertainment Weekly’ got it wrong. Snape’s death should have made the list.”
Laura: Didn’t we talk about this, though?
Matt: Yeah, we did talk about Snape…
Laura: We did talk about the eyes.
Matt: …but we actually got a lot of e-mails about people disappointed that we didn’t go over every single detail of Snape’s memories in “The Prince’s Tale.”
Andrew: Yeah, that’s what I wanted to talk about. The thing was, again, we talk about things that we feel like can actually be discussed. If we can’t discuss it then forget it, we’re not going to talk about it. It’s boring to just summarize.
Matt: Yeah, and also there were a lot of things to talk about in “The Prince’s Tale,” and if we did actually talk about – even if there was stuff to talk about for each little thing that happened, that episode would have been at least two hours long.
Laura: And I will just delicately point out that when we first did Chapter-by-Chapter, a majority of the complaints concerned the fact that we were summarizing the chapters. So…
Laura: …we either summarize or we pick things that foster discussion. One or the other.
Matt: Did we even talk about Harry’s eyes to Lily’s eyes? The reason why said, “Look at me”?
Matt: We did say something – yeah. Okay. All right, so – sorry, guys, that we didn’t say everything in that chapter, and… [sighs] …next time we’ll say more.
[Laura and Matt laugh]
Matt: I did not know how to finish it.
Muggle Mail: Wizard Drinking Age
Laura: Okay. Our next one comes from Alexandra, 19, of Burbank, CA. She writes:
“While sulking in my room about the legal drinking age, I was wondering if wizards and witches have a legal drinking age. Would butterbeer be considered alcohol? What do you guys think?”
From what I remember, butterbeer is not alcohol, or it’s not alcoholic. Like, wasn’t it in – gosh – Order of the Phoenix where Winky had been drinking it, and Dobby told Harry that the effects of butterbeer are stronger on House-elves than they are on humans? Or something.
Andrew: So wouldn’t that mean that it is?
Micah: I think you’d have to take a lot of it to get messed up.
Laura: Yeah, it would be – okay, it would be like drinking – oh gosh. Maybe I shouldn’t say this. Like…
Micah: Like who?
Laura: Like a fruit cooler, you know? Like…
Matt: Oh, like a wine cooler.
Laura: Yeah. Like, those you have – you give that to someone who is, like, tiny, but if you give it to an adult…
Laura: I should shut up now.
Micah: Laura, do you get midgets drunk?
Laura: [laughs] What? Micah!
Andrew: The main question I wanted to ask here was, what is the legal drinking in the Wizarding World?
Laura: I don’t think there is one because there’s not – okay, at least – I think it would vary by country, just like it does in the…
Andrew: Yeah, maybe.
Laura: It’s like, for instance – okay, everyone knows that the drinking age is severely relaxed in Europe, so I really doubt…
Andrew: Yes, it’s 16.
Andrew: 18. Sorry.
Laura: Yeah, but they don’t even really enforce that.
Matt: Yeah, people aren’t uptight in the U.K. as the U.S. is.
Andrew: Right. Yeah, I just thought it was kind of interesting.
Matt: There are, I mean – do they even have that many strong alcoholic drinks in the Wizarding World that’s mentioned? Except firewhiskey?
Laura: Oh, they have Sherry, and Brandy, and….
Matt: Oh yeah, sherry bottle. Trelawney.
Micah: Yeah, it says butterbeer has a very small amount of alcohol in it.
Matt: Well, 17 is the Wizarding legal age, as considered as an adult, so maybe at 17 they just don’t care anymore?
Laura: Well, if butterbeer has a small amount of alcohol in it they’ve all been drinking it since they were 13.
Matt: Yeah, so…
Micah: Doesn’t Harry take a shot of firewhiskey after…
Laura: Yeah, I think they do.
Micah: …Moody dies?
Matt: And we never read any side effects, so he must be…
Laura: He didn’t get wasted, basically.
Matt: Yeah. He didn’t get wasted.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: All right, and the final e-mail for today.
Muggle Mail: Bitterness Towards Entertainment Weekly
Micah: Oh. [laughs] The final e-mail comes from Scott, 19, of Pittsburgh. He says:
“I feel obligated, due to the fact that I have been an avid ‘Entertainment Weekly’ reader for years upon years now, that I must defend it. On Episode 150 you all seemed really harsh on ‘Entertainment Weekly”s choice. Maybe you were a tad bitter from the fact that we still don’t have a teaser yet. But who knows? Anyway, those chose ‘Goblet'” – hold on – “Anyway, those chose ‘Goblet of Fire’ because it was the first book to really become a book, and the other three before were kind of children-y type novels, and why not like Book 6? Because Book 4 was more influential. Book 4 was the book that brought in the new era of Jo’s books, the ones where adults are just as interested. Also, I too was expecting them to use the whole series, but the list was for ‘Best Book,’ as in single book, though still I’d like them to have lumped it together as they did with ‘His Dark Materials.’ Hopefully I’ve made you reconsider the WTF-ness of Episode 150.”
Andrew: I still don’t think they gave that much thought to it, but okay.
Andrew: Think what you want.
Matt: I think maybe Goblet of Fire probably had the most – no, no, nevermind.
Matt: No, I don’t think so.
Andrew: I agree with what he said, that it started a new era of Jo’s books, but I don’t think Entertainment Weekly considered that.
Matt: I don’t think it was like the first adult book. I mean I think the series in chronological order has a great transition.
Matt: It transitions really well from, you know, a child’s book from the very first one to, you know, the more adult-oriented last three of the books. I think, you know, as you read from first to last you get slowly acclimated to more adult themes.
Matt: So I don’t think it was like a huge leap or anything that was like saying, “This is the first – this is a new era of the Harry Potter books,” because, you know, Book 3 was kind of dark too.
Micah: I think I even mentioned last episode that, you know, Book 4 was kind of the first book where Harry experiences death right in front of him. You know, we really don’t get an idea of – or what his memory is of what happened to his parents. You know, that was really the turning point, and I kind of agree with what Scott’s saying. The first three books were a little bit more childish in the way that they came across, and now you get to Goblet of Fire and all of a sudden it’s turning a little bit darker.
Andrew: Okay. Well, yeah, and like I said, I agree with what you have to say. I just don’t think Entertainment Weekly considered that, you know?
Matt: Well, thinking about Goblet of Fire kind of starts the whole war though. I mean the whole – after Goblet of Fire the entire book series is based on one thing and it’s He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named has returned and the war has begun.
Matt: So, I mean, you can probably think of it as the beginning of, you know, the new war for the Wizarding World. But as a classic? I don’t know. I don’t think there really is a specific book that can be a classic except for the first book since the original one, but I’m just saying what I said last week, so…
Andrew: All right, well, with that, unless someone had anything else to say?
MuggleCast 151 Transcript (continued)
Tangent: Google: Define “Goat”
Andrew: Let’s move on to Chapter-by-Chapter this week. We’re talking about the penultimate chapter. You guys like that word? Penultimate?
Laura: Very nice, very nice.
Andrew: I know my English. Yeah, thank you.
Matt: Yeah, that’s pretty good.
Andrew: And no, the Epilogue doesn’t count as a chapter so don’t e-mail me and be like, [in a high pitched voice] “It’s not the penultimate. That means second to last.” Anyway…
Laura: Well, hey, Andrew, I think it’s incontrovertible that you, you know…
Laura: …you know all these great words. I’m so proud of your vocabulary.
Andrew: I still don’t know what that means, but…
Matt: He has a list on his desktop right now.
Andrew: You know what I do? And I’ll admit this, I’m not afraid to.
Laura: You pull up Dashboard?
Andrew: Well, no, close. Yeah, that’s a good idea. But also, like if someone says a word on the podcast or something, or IM, I’ll go to Google and I’ll type in define, colon, and then the word, and it gives you a definition.
Laura: That’s cool.
Matt: [laughs] What a loser.
Micah: Those Google people.
Andrew: What? That’s a little trick I learned.
Matt: No, I’m just kidding.
Andrew: That’s a little trick I learned. Anyway…
Micah: Those Google people are so smart.
Andrew: Yeah, they are. Isn’t that cool, Micah?
Micah: It’s cool.
Andrew: You’re all going to start using it now. Google’s…
Micah: Here, Google.com. Define, colon, goat.
Micah: “Any of numerous agile ruminants related to sheep but having a beard and straight horns.”
Andrew: Thank you for that. Wow.
Andrew: And see, Micah? You say you’re tired of that goat talk, but you fuel it with things like that.
Micah: Well, Matt started it this week, so…
Matt: No, no, no.
Andrew: Your comment just fueled it for another three months. Guaranteed.
Micah: All right.
Chapter-by-Chapter: Chapter 35, “King’s Cross”
Andrew: [laughs] Anyway, Chapter-by-Chapter this week, Chapter 35, “King’s Cross.” This is the chapter that I couldn’t do Quote Quiz for last week because it’s just Harry and Dumbledore the whole time. I mean, what can you do? Anyway, this is the big chapter where Harry speaks with Dumbledore again. It’s a very moving chapter. Dumbledore talks a lot, basically explaining to Harry, you know, everything. You know, remember in Book 5 how he said, “Sit down, Harry. I’m going to tell you everything”? Yeah. He didn’t really.
Laura: Yeah. That was a lie.
Andrew: Yeah, that was a big lie. Book 7’s like the third time he’s said, “I’m going to tell you everything.”
Andrew: Like, if there was an eighth book he would give him a whole other story that’s crucial.
Laura: [laughs] Although I have to say, one of the things that’s great about this is it is different in that respect, because…
Andrew: You’re right.
Laura: …Dumbledore doesn’t really tell Harry anything. Harry just realizes he already knew.
Harry’s Naked Again
Andrew: So chapter starts up with Harry waking up and realizing he’s alive, and he also realizes he’s [whispers] naked. Again. “He was not perfectly sure he was there himself.” That’s a quote from the book. Matt, what did you say before the show started?
Matt: I want to know why Jo is so keen on getting Harry naked so much in this book.
Andrew: Well, this is only the second time, right?
Matt: Well, yeah, but it’s – well, the only other time Harry’s been naked was in the prefects’ bathroom in Goblet of Fire.
Matt: But – I don’t know, I just…
Andrew: Well, I present…
Laura: I think she just added it subliminally after Equus. Yeah.
Matt: Do you think Equus has anything to do with it?
Andrew: Oh, ha-ha, guys. You took my joke. Obviously.
Matt: Ha-ha-ha. You’re so predictable.
Andrew: I believe it, though. But he’s not really going to be naked in the film, so…
Matt: He’s not?
Andrew: Right? I don’t think so. Would he? No.
Laura: Well, they would make it look like he was naked.
Andrew: You think so?
Laura: Yeah. They made it look like…
Laura: …he was naked in Goblet of Fire.
Andrew: Yeah, but he was in a tub. I mean it was written that way, where he was in a tub.
Laura: Yeah, but, no, what they’ll do is they’ll just shoot it so that you can see like his chest upward or something.
Andrew: [fan-girl squeals] Ah, his chest! That does it for me.
Laura: [laughs] I bet it does.
Voldemort’s Crying Horcrux
Andrew: [laughs] Voldemort is there in the background, but it’s the Horcrux version of Voldemort. And he’s crying in the background. At first he didn’t really – Harry didn’t know what it was at first, but then he realizes what it is. I guess there’s not really much to talk about with this, but we do have to talk about it, or else people are going to complain. What does this – a lot of people e-mailed in saying, “What does that represent?” And it’s pretty clear that it’s Voldemort’s Horcrux. It represents his Horcrux, correct?
Laura: Yeah, I would think so.
Matt: How come Harry got the emo Horcrux, though? I mean why is the Horcrux crying?
Andrew: Because he’s dying. Right?
Laura: Well, I think – what’s really interesting about this quote-unquote “King’s Cross” location is it seems to restore people to – or things, in that creature’s case – to what they naturally are without any sort of social pretense, you know? For instance, normally Harry has to wear glasses to correct his vision, yet here he’s not wearing them, and he can see clearly. He’s not cut or injured, so you can see him as he truly is. And I think here we get to see Voldemort as he truly is…
Laura: …and it’s a really interesting contrast because we’re always used to seeing him as this huge, threatening, cloaked figure, and yet here he is defenseless and – and repulsive. Almost pathetic.
Andrew: Yeah. That’s a really good point.
Micah: One of the things I wanted to bring up was it said in the chapter that he wanted to comfort this thing, although it repulsed him. And I just thought that kind of showed the type of person that Harry is, the type of character that he is throughout the entire series, that no matter what the situation, he always has this thing about him that he has to go and try and – he’s got a saving thing about him, even when it comes to something as decrepit and disgusting as this part of Voldemort’s soul that’s, you know, cowering in the corner.
Symbolism of King’s Cross Station
Andrew: Right. So this entire scene is taking place between Harry and Dumbledore at King’s Cross Station, and at first Harry doesn’t know where it is, and then he says to Dumbledore, “Is this King’s Cross?” And Dumbledore says something like, “Oh my, is it really?” Like, complete sarcasm. How cool is the symbolism here? Essentially what it’s saying is, well, the symbolism is that Harry can either take the train and die, or not take the train and go back to Hogwarts somehow. Well, I guess – what does it say at the end of the thing? I forget what actually happens.
Micah: Doesn’t Dumbledore tell him, “This is, as they say, your party”?
Andrew and Laura: Yeah.
Laura: I’m trying to find…
Andrew: And this is also all happening in his head.
Laura: Hang on, let me – I know what you’re talking about, Andrew, let me find it.
Matt: See, this reminds me of a Gladys Knight song saying “Take the midnight train to Georgia.”
Matt: You can take the midnight train…
Micah: To Laura’s house?
Matt: …to Georgia.
Laura: Oh, God. Here, I found the quote. It’s – Harry says, “I’ve got to go back, haven’t I?” And then Dumbledore says, “That is up to you,” and Harry asks him if he has a choice. And then Dumbledore says, “Oh yes. We are in King’s Cross, you say? I think that if you decided not to go back you would be able to, let’s say, board a train.”
Andrew: So, yeah, it’s very symbolic. It’s so cool, I love it.
Andrew: Are there any other places in the Wizarding World that could have been representative of a choice between moving on or staying alive?
Matt: “Ha, ha, ha, ha, stayin’ alive!”
Andrew: [singing] “Ah, ah, ah, ah, taking the train, taking the train! Stay alive!” Okay, that’s all.
Laura: I don’t know, I mean the whole concept of using any kind of mode of transportation in kind of a limbo between a life and death scene is actually fairly common. It happens on most T.V. shows at one point or another, and I’m sure it’s in tons of other books, so really, I think it’s one of the best ways to represent it. I think what makes it really cool is just that it takes place at a location that has become so familiar to us throughout the books, because we’ve seen it in every book, you know? So…
Laura: That’s what really gives it an interesting twist I think.
Micah: And it’s also one of the – the main entry points that we’ve seen throughout the series between, you know, the Muggle world and the Wizarding World and, you know, it’s really – other than going in the first book to Diagon Alley, you know, sort of having to go through at King’s Cross station is one of Harry’s first entrances into the Wizarding World. So I thought that was kind of interesting. You know, obviously there’s a lot of religious parallels here as well. I don’t know if we’re going to talk about those or not.
Andrew: Well, like what? What are you talking about? In this scene – in this exact – this topic, or elsewhere you mean?
Micah: Well, I think there are some. I mean, how it was sort of a domed top to the station, and, I don’t know, I just thought there was a lot of religious symbolism there. Could it possibly be like a church or any other religious place of worship?
Andrew: Yeah, well…
Laura: Well – and that’s a good point, too, because you often hear stories of people talking about near death experiences, and a lot of these always seem to claim that, you know, “I saw a white light and then someone said it’s not my time yet,” or someone said, “you need to go back.” You know. Which is somewhat what happens here, except Harry is actually given the choice.
Alternative Place: The Veil
Matt: Well, what about instead of King’s Cross, I think another place that would’ve been relevant would be the Veil place.
Matt: Because we all thought that there was going to be another time we’d get to see the Veil.
Matt: We keep taking about how Sirius quote/unquote “died” when he went over the Veil.
Matt: I mean, couldn’t like Harry and Dumbledore be talking with the Veil in front of them, and if he decides to die he would just walk through it?
Matt: Or he could hear, like, his parents’ voices on the other side?
Laura: I guess the reason this was chosen is it provides the perfect state of limbo. He’s neither alive nor dead, whereas with the Veil, if you’re outside of it you’re alive and if you’re inside of it you’re dead.
Matt: I don’t really see the train symbolism but I know what you’re talking about.
Matt: Like the train is just – it goes one way.
Laura: Well, I guess it’s sort of that neither here nor there idea, for instance.
Matt: Yeah, that’s what a train station is.
Matt: Is you’re kind of just, you know, just stagnant until you reach – until you pick up the train to your destination.
Andrew: I wonder if Jo could have taken it a step further and just had it set right in front of Platform 9 3/4. You know, whether – you know, like right outside of it, ’cause that’s exactly where Harry first entered the magical world, when he went through the pillar. And I think it would have been kind of cool whether he was right outside of the pillar, you know, like as if he was about to go in to Platform 9 3/4, or he’s right there at the wall that takes them out. And that would be kind of cool.
Matt: Well, who knows? They may actually put that in the movie instead.
Andrew: I bet they will.
Laura: But, you know…
Matt: Yeah, they may. Yeah, you never know.
Back to Religious Symbolism
Laura: Well, what I think the point of this was, and I think Micah touched on it briefly a second ago talking about religious symbolism, is the location’s very ambiguous, because when Harry mentions to Dumbledore he thinks it’s King’s Cross, Dumbledore kind of laughs and he’s like, “Really? Is it?” And so it’s sort of like, you know, in the eye of the beholder. You know, maybe Harry goes there and sees King’s Cross but then maybe someone else goes there and sees a church.
Micah: The name itself, King’s Cross, is kind of symbolic in terms of religion also.
Laura: Oh, yeah.
Micah: I mean I don’t know that – I don’t know the history behind the actual station, but, you know, just kind of calling the chapter “King’s Cross” is a little – you know, I think that there’s some religious aspect to that. You know, referring to the cross and such.
A Crossroads for Harry
Andrew: Sure. And just a cross could be also interpreted a cross in the road.
Andrew: You know. Fork in the road. You know? So many ways to interpret this, it’s like art.
[Laura and Matt laugh]
Andrew: It’s like Picasso.
Micah: Well, that’s exactly – that’s a great point you actually just brought up.
Micah: It’s a crossroads for Harry. I mean…
Micah: …what better place than a place of transportation, I guess.
Andrew: Yeah. Well, exactly, I mean that’s what we’ve been talking about. Yeah.
Buying Dumbledore’s Story
Matt: Does everybody buy Dumbledore’s full story to Harry? I mean, does anyone still believe that he’s an ass for setting up Harry as a pig for slaughter? And the reason why I ask this is because, when Dumbledore explains to Harry, he apologizes to him. What do you guys think? Any thoughts?
Laura: I’m not sure we were intended to entirely think that Dumbledore was right, though.
Matt: But why is it when – at the end of every book when Dumbledore tells him the story he always says, “I’m sorry, Harry, I should’ve told you,” or “I’m sorry, Harry, the fault is mine.”
Andrew: [laughs] That’s kind of true.
Laura: Because he’s a flawed character.
Andrew: Yeah, but…
Matt: But does he constantly – I mean I kind of wish that Harry goes, “Yeah, I know, this is what you’ve been telling me. This isn’t news to me that it’s your fault.”
Laura: [laughs] Well…
Andrew: I was always taught as a child that “sorry” meant you won’t do it again.
Matt: Love means never having to say you’re sorry.
Andrew: Anyway, go ahead, Laura. Sorry.
[Andrew and Matt laugh]
Laura: I kind of lost my train of thought.
Andrew: Oh, sorry.
Matt: Did you take the wrong train?
[Everyone laughs sarcastically]
Laura: I hope not!
Dumbledore Leading Harry On
Micah: What was interesting about this part was Dumbledore’s almost egging Harry on, you know. Dumbledore’s not really the one that’s telling the story. Harry has to keep coming up with all the answers, which is a little bit different than what we’re used to, you know. It’s like you’re reading through this chapter and Dumbledore just keeps smiling at Harry like, “Yeah, come one. Yeah, and then what happened?”
Micah: And then, “what does that mean?”
Micah: It was just a little weird. And…
Andrew: But then again – sorry. Go ahead.
Micah: Well, no, you mentioned that Dumbledore apologizes setting Harry up, but…
Micah: …it seems almost that he knew, and – or at least he guessed that Harry was going to, in the end, be okay. And he even goes on to say, you know, my guesses are usually correct, and it’s just, if he guessed wrong, they wouldn’t be having this conversation right now and…
Andrew: You’re right. You’re right.
Micah: …the book would’ve ended, so…
It’s All in Harry’s Head
Andrew: But this whole time we’re talking about this, I guess – we also have to remember, again, that this isn’t actually Dumbledore, so should we see it as Dumbledore saying all this because it’s – like Laura said, it’s happening in Harry’s head. So how do we interpret this?
Laura: I think we interpret it, and we touched on this a little bit last week when we were talking about why Dumbledore didn’t appear when Harry used the Resurrection Stone, and I think it’s because Harry doesn’t need him anymore. Not that he wouldn’t love for him to be alive, but Harry doesn’t really need that guidance anymore because Dumbledore even said that he was a wonderful man and that he was also a better man than Dumbledore was.
Micah: And I would argue that it is Dumbledore just for the sheer fact of the quote that you put in at the end, Andrew. You mentioned that it’s happening inside Harry’s head, but look at what Dumbledore says to him.
Andrew: “But why on earth should that mean that it is not real.” It’s such a nice line.
Micah: So who’s to say that it’s really not him?
Laura: Well, it leaves so much open for interpretation, you know?
Andrew: And that’s the very last line we ever hear from Dumbledore, isn’t it?
Laura: Aww, that’s so heart wrenching!
Andrew: I want to cry! I’m actually tearing up right now. Poor guy. Okay, well, let’s move on before the waterworks really start coming.
Harry is the Seventh Horcrux
Laura: We also find out that Harry was, of course, the seventh and unintended Horcrux. This was the source of much debate [laughs] prior to Book 7 coming out.
Andrew: [laughs] Yes, and we mean very – something fluttered in my chest when I read that line. [laughs] No, that was wonderful. That was wonderful, because for anyone who doesn’t know – I mean in particular, Ben and Emerson were having a very public fight with Melissa from Leaky over whether Harry or not was a Horcrux. Most notably it was discussed at our live podcast in July during the L.A. premiere. Emerson and Ben were fighting that Harry was a Horcrux, Melissa was saying he wasn’t. So, of course, reading this, you know, it’s like, “Oh my God! Ben and Emerson were right!” Did you guys think Harry was a Horcrux?
Laura: No, I actually didn’t.
Andrew: Me either.
Laura: And I kind of laughed to myself when I read it. I was like “Ha! All right.” [laughs]
Andrew: Through all the tears that were going on, you managed to…
Laura: Okay, I wasn’t crying during this chapter.
Matt: Wait, what are we talking about?
Andrew: Harry being a Horcrux. Matt, did you think Harry was a Horcrux? Before you read it?
Matt: No, I didn’t. I honestly – I did not think he was a Horcrux.
Andrew: None of us did.
Matt: I was listening – I mean I heard all your guys’ podcasts, all – pretty much all of the two top podcasts for Harry Potter, and about all the people who said they thought he was a Horcrux and who didn’t think. I was on the other side thinking that Harry was not a Horcrux.
Andrew: Good. Good boy. Actually, bad boy.
Matt: Well, you thought he wasn’t one either.
Andrew: Go ahead, Laura, continue.
The Gleam of Triumph in Dumbledore’s Eye
Laura: And we finally got confirmation on what Dumbledore’s gleam of triumph was in Goblet of Fire. If you guys will remember, after Harry tells him that Voldemort used Harry’s blood to rejuvenate himself, Harry could’ve sworn he saw a gleam of triumph in Dumbledore’s eye. And this was a source of some speculation for a while because everyone was wondering, you know, “Why would Dumbledore look happy about this?” And it even…
Matt: What is a gleam of triumph?
Micah: Just like a…
Andrew: Hard to illustrate on an audio podcast.
Andrew: Your eye widens and you have a little smile, your eyebrows raise.
Micah: Almost like a smirk.
Matt: But like, triumph is like an ultimate, like, emotion. I mean if a gleam of triumph is pretty much just like his face just widening as far as it can go and his eyes going… [gasps]
Laura: Not necessarily.
Laura: It’s kind of like – have you ever sort of been not – heard an argument going on or heard something going on that you weren’t really involved in, but then the side that you were on came out on top, and you just kind of have that little moment of glee to yourself. That’s kind of how I imagine it.
Andrew: There you go.
Matt: Oh, there you go, that’s a good explanation. Good job, Laura! Good job!
Laura: Thanks, Matt. Anyhow. [laughs] How it was answered, was that Lily’s protection was keeping both Harry and Voldemort alive because, as long as Voldemort lived, Harry was anchored to life because his blood flowed in Voldemort’s veins with Lily’s protection.
Micah: I have a question, because there was that whole explanation about the wands and why, you know, the wand that Harry was using sort of just acted of its own accord during this chapter. And it made absolutely no sense to me when Dumbledore was trying to explain this. Did you guys understand what was going on?
Andrew: What part exactly are you confused about? Just – how Harry’s wand shot back at Voldemort when he cast Avada Kedavra, or whatever it was?
Laura: Oh, that’s not ’till the next chapter, right? Or are we discussing…
Andrew: No, when Voldemort cast – I’m not – I’m confused what – sorry, Laura.
Laura: Well, I think – okay, you’re talking about Harry and Voldemort wands shared a core.
Laura: And Voldemort then discovered that they couldn’t fight against each other, so…
Micah: There’s this part where Dumbledore’s explaining how the wand knew to act by itself. Do you remember?
Laura: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember that.
Micah: When they’re in – the “Seven Potters” chapter where Voldemort reaches Harry, and then his wand just all of a sudden starts to shoot whatever spell it did out against Voldemort to protect him.
Laura: Yeah, he was saying that Harry’s wand had come to recognize Voldemort’s wand as both an enemy and a close relative, and so not only did it recognize it as a threat, but it knew how to protect itself from Voldemort, because Voldemort had the same capabilities.
Matt: Hmm. Well, didn’t his – didn’t Harry’s wand after priori incantatum – when Harry won that battle because his courage was greater or whatever reason it was – didn’t it say that the wand recognized Voldemort as a mortal enemy and could act on it’s own accord?
Micah: Right, but wasn’t he using Lucius’ wand during that attack?
Matt: Right, but it’s Voldemort’s magic essence or whatever it is that the wand sensed.
Micah: Oh, okay.
Laura: Yeah. I think that’s what it was.
Matt: Because it’s not the wand that it recognizes; it’s the person that the magic is coming from.
Laura: Yeah, because – yeah, Voldemort made the mistake of thinking that it was just the wand that mattered.
Micah: But then there was another… [laughs] …part that he brought up. Remember when they were in Godric’s Hollow, when they were about to – when they escaped from Voldemort, I thought that he mentioned something about that moment as well.
Laura: Well, he said that the wand…
Micah: That Voldemort was scared that night for some reason.
Laura: I don’t remember that part. What I remember about Godric’s Hollow was Harry asking if his wand was so strong why was Hermione able to break it? And Dumbledore essentially explained that, up against Voldemort, it became sort of this invincible death stick, whereas up against any other wand it would behave normally. I don’t know if that answers your question, but…
Matt: Well, because it’s the kinship between the two wands, I think it is.
Matt: It’s just like when you’re up against your friends, you know, your equals, but when you’re up against your brother or sister it’s like the bonds shift.
Laura: Yeah, that’s true. It’s like if you’re playing Nintendo Wii. When you’re playing it with a friend it’s a little less formal than when you’re playing it against a sibling and it’s to the death.
Matt: Yeah, that’s right.
[Micah and Laura laugh]
Matt: I win.
Micah: All right. Yeah, that helps me out, though. Sorry I’m stupid, but hey.
Andrew: Well, Micah, I’m glad I could answer your question.
Micah: Yeah, if your name is Laura then you did a great job.
Laura: Yeah, thanks, Laura.
Micah: And Matt.
Laura: I really enjoyed your analysis.
[Andrew and Micah laugh]
When Dumbledore Breaks Down
Micah: Moving on a little bit, what about Ariana and how he dreaded beyond all things that it could have been him who killed her? There’s a couple things, it’s not just Ariana here, but throughout this entire series of conversations that he’s having with Harry, he also has some guilt about the Potters’ murder, and Harry ends up reassuring him that his parents having the Invisibility Cloak wouldn’t have helped them that night, that Voldemort knew where they were, and that he was going to kill them no matter what. But it’s interesting now. You know, you almost see Dumbledore – when you do see Dumbledore he starts to break down. You know, Harry reassures him numerous times throughout the course this chapter, you know, that he is a good person, but, I mean, what do you guys think about how he reacted to the whole Ariana situation and then, you know, the Potters’ murder? This is something about Dumbledore we’ve never seen before.
Matt: Well, I think – I think this – the Dumbledore that we see is, you know, of course, the deceased soul of Dumbledore. You know, when you die there’s pretty much nothing to do but look back and think what could have been or what could have happened if I did this or that, and I think he’s just blaming himself for the things that he thinks could’ve gone better and done by him. So maybe that’s why he was seeming like he was apologizing for the Potters’ death and that it was his fault. I think he tends to take a lot of the blame for himself.
Matt: Because he does – ’cause he thinks that he’s such a flawed person that – you know, in contradiction to what other people think of him.
Laura: Well, he also realizes that, despite any sort of idea to the contrary, his flaws contributed largely to these tragedies. I mean especially the one involving the death of his sister. You know, Harry can say the Invisibility Cloak wouldn’t have helped his parents all he wanted, but there’s a decided advantage to escaping from a murderer when you’re invisible. Maybe that’s just me.
Andrew: Nope, you’re right. [laughs] But, I mean, I think also that Dumbledore can’t help but be apologetic in this situation. I mean just look where Harry is. And maybe this is the Harry that Dumbledore sees in his mind – just an apologetic version. I think Harry would want Dumbledore to be apologetic.
Micah: Well, and being completely truthful, too…
Micah: …I mean it’s time to come clean with everything that’s been going on for the past seven years or more.
That Line from Book 5
Andrew: Do you guys remember – I do. Do you guys remember before Order of the Phoenix came out, they released that little snippet…
Laura: Oh yeah. Yeah.
Andrew: This gets me so much.
Matt: Oh my gosh.
Andrew: “Sit down, Harry, it’s time to tell you everything.” Or something along those lines.
Laura: They posted that thing on, like, store windows everywhere.
Andrew: I pooped my pants.
Andrew: I straight up pooped my pants. Dumbledore is going to tell Harry everything. Like, this is…
Andrew: No, but seriously, I mean, you know. That’s just one of the coolest lines of Order of the Phoenix, especially as a teaser!
Laura: And then he didn’t really tell him that much.
Andrew: No! [laughs]
Laura: He didn’t tell him anything!
Andrew: Oh my god.
Micah: You’re talking about the movie, right?
Andrew and Laura: No!
Laura: The book.
Andrew: The book.
Micah: Oh. That was before my time reading.
Andrew: Oh, okay. But, oh my gosh, like, you know, I’m glad they did that, just ’cause that made me, like, so happy. I was just running on a natural high. You know, those – running down the street singing, “Dumbledore’s going to tell him everything!”
Matt: See, I remember reading that when I was walking past, I think it was Borders or something, and I read it. And I – I was kind of skeptic, though, about it, because it was the fifth book in a seven book series.
Andrew: Yeah, that’s true.
Matt: Like, what can you possibly tell everything – I mean, is it really just going to be two books of him knowing everything and being in control? That’s not going to be very fun.
Laura: Well, I thought it was going to be everything Dumbledore knew. And I was assuming that there was going to be some stuff that he didn’t know. Not that he knew everything the whole time and that he was just lying… [laughs] …and disclosing information in a systematic one book each per rate. Ugh.
Matt: I mean think of what we know now. If that really happened where Dumbledore, you know, said, “Okay, Harry, sit down. I’m going to tell you everything.” He’s going to like overload this kid with all this information and that’s going to be a six chapter book – part of the book, just him telling everything.
Laura: And they’ll turn it into five minutes of a movie. [laughs]
Matt: Or they just cut it and put it in the deleted scenes. [laughs]
Laura: Yeah, or they don’t explain anything, like they did in Order of the Phoenix.
Matt: “I’m just saying I love you and I just didn’t want to be as tempted to say that.”
Dumbledore’s Selfish Past
Micah: Well, I guess here we can kind of talk about – he brings up Grindelwald and everything that went along with him. And what I wanted to add to this was, you really get an idea of how much like the Death Eaters these two guys were, at least in theory, early on.
Micah: And it’s kind of scary, ’cause you don’t realize that – again, that there’s this side to Dumbledore that existed. So…
Laura: Yeah. Oh, no, it’s true. I mean he even talks about how much the idea of making Muggles subservient pleased him.
Laura: He really sort of gloried in that idea. And…
Laura: ..it’s interesting to see the complete turn around he made.
Micah: Yup. And he literally goes through the Deathly Hallows like one by one. He’s like “this is what the Elder Wand would have done for us, this is what the Resurrection Stone would have done.” He – he says “we would’ve had an army of Infiri.” – you know. And then of course the Invisibility Cloak, but, you know, and then – then he goes on to mention how he would have used the Resurrection Stone more for his own selfish reasons to bring back…
Micah: …his family.
Matt: This kind of reminds me of – I’m sorry I’m going to use a little parallel to another fantasy series – of Lord of the Rings when Gandalf said that he would use the ring of power for good, but knowing that the ring would just be evil. It just reminds me of, you know, Gandalf and…
Matt: …Dumbledore parallels where they know that they – they know what kind of person they are if they had that kind of power with them.
Laura: Yeah, and Dumbledore talks a lot about power in this chapter, and this is where we find out why he turned down being Minister of Magic so many times, because he knew if he was given an ounce of power he took an immense risk of becoming a totalitarian.
Matt: But a nice one.
MuggleCast 151 Transcript (continued)
What Dumbledore Would See in the Mirror of Erised?
Andrew: Okay, then what Dumbledore would have seen in the Mirror of Erised becomes clear. And I mean, I was – didn’t we talk about this in the last Chapter-by-Chapter? Well, not the last one but the one where we discussed Ariana and all that?
Laura: Probably, yeah, but I mean, we can reiterate so people don’t complain. I mean, duh, he would see his family.
Micah: And Harry comes to realize that.
Laura: And what’s great about that is you remember that line in Sorcerer’s Stone where he asked Dumbledore what he saw in the mirror, and Dumbledore says “socks” and then Harry is rethinking it.
Laura: And he’s like – and he thinks that Dumbledore might not have been entirely truthful.
Andrew: Well, I mean, isn’t it obvious?
Laura: Well, yeah, yeah, but it’s just a nice little tie in. It’s a – another one of these parallel things that I’m all about. You know? And…
Laura: …it just – it just shows that Jo just tied everything up and, oh my gosh, it makes me so happy.
Andrew: Yeah. [laughs]
Matt: I think Harry just should have just said, “That’s not true. Come on, I’m only eleven years old.”
Matt: And then Dumbledore tells him….
Laura: And then Dumbledore would have been like, “Okay, Harry.”
Matt: “In your fifth year I’ll tell you everything.”
Harry Asks Why It Was So Hard
Andrew: “But not until then.” So, moving along, Dumbledore continues to answer Harry’s and all of our questions. Why did he make it so hard? Which was a good question. And here’s where Dumbledore admits one of his faults. He says, “I counted on Ms. Granger to slow you up, Harry. I was afraid your hot head may dominate your good heart and I wanted you to possess them safely.”
Laura: Well, what I thought of this, when I read that line especially, “I wanted you to possess them safely,” it reminded me of parents teaching their children to drink responsibly.
Andrew: Yeah. No, you’re right. [laughs]
Laura: I don’t know, maybe that’s just me.
Matt: This was kind of the first time that – well, this is the first time that Dumbledore wants Hermione to slow him down. He wanted to like – he’s basically saying that Hermione makes him reckless, doesn’t it? And he just kind of wanted Hermione just to be out of the picture and just have her – he just knows what she’s like because she always thinks there’s something cryptic or something inside, so he gave her that book just so she could slow him down.
Micah: Yeah, I think he was counting on her always wanting to do the research, always wanting to err on the side of caution. And, you know, there’s a lot of times throughout the course of this book that Harry may have used one of the more – other than the Invisibility Cloak – one of the other Deathly Hallows to his advantage.
Micah: I mean especially the Resurrection Stone.
Laura: And Dumbledore actually mentions this during the chapter. We see such a stark contrast between the way Harry possessed the Hallows and the way Dumbledore possessed them. Dumbledore flat out admitted that he would have used the Resurrection Stone to bring people back who were already at peace, whereas Harry used the Resurrection Stone to give him the courage to face his death. And I just – I love that distinction…
Laura: …because for so long we’d seen Dumbledore as this flawless character who – he said he wasn’t afraid of death, and it goes to show, maybe not for himself, but for others definitely so.
Andrew: So Dumbledore continues to constantly question himself. He asks if he is any better than Voldemort. Numerous times Harry has to defend Dumbledore to himself.
Did Harry Want Dumbledore’s Apologies?
Micah: No, I think we touched on this and it’s throughout the entire chapter. I mean we see a different side of Dumbledore. You know, he just – he’s breaking down in this chapter, and, you know, Harry is almost like the adult to Dumbledore being the child. You know? He has to keep telling him how he did everything for good as opposed to Voldemort who has done everything for evil, obviously.
Andrew: And again, I think that Harry wanted it that way. I think that’s why Dumbledore does present himself that way. Harry wants to, you know – Harry wants to feel like it was Dumbledore’s fault. Like, you know, Dumbledore put him through all of this, Harry did everything right. Maybe?
Laura: Well, I think Harry needs the closure of knowing that Dumbledore was finally honest with him.
Laura: So either – I mean, and again, there’s various ways to interpret it, but it would seem like the two most basic ways would be to think that Dumbledore came as, you know, his last word to Harry, or Harry’s mind made it up as a way of closure. Or it could be a little bit of both. You never know.
Andrew: And then of course, finally, at the end, Harry asks, “I have one last question: is this real?” “Of course it is.” Or he asks – Harry asks, “is this happening inside my head?” And Dumbledore says, “Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on Earth should that mean that it is not real?” Again, wonderful line and the final words from Albus Dumbledore.
Matt: Kind of like a Harry Potter the Matrix.
Andrew: Right. [fakes a laugh] Okay.
Andrew: Well, anyway, that concludes Chapter-by-Chapter. Oooh, it’s time for Quote Quiz.
[Quote Quiz intro plays]
Matt: Ahh, yes.
Andrew: [laughs] “I’ll join you when Hell freezes over. Dumbledore’s Army!”
Matt: That was Neville!
Laura: As if everyone didn’t know who that was.
Matt: Yeah, like no one knew that one. Come on, Andrew.
Voicemail: Wizarding Robes
Andrew: There is Quote Quiz this week. Well, it’s time to take some voicemail calls now.
Andrew: We have three this week. You know, they’re just little questions, nothing big. Just little things that people called in.
Andrew: So, let’s listen to the first one now.
Matt: All right.
[Audio]: Hey, MuggleCast, my name’s Yurisha, I’m 11 from Ontario. I have a question about robe sizes. Every year Harry and the Weasleys go to Diagon Alley to get new robes because Harry and Ron keep growing. Couldn’t they just use Engorgio to enlarge their robes? Just wanted to know what you think about this. Thanks. You guys rock. Pickles!
Andrew: I like that question.
Matt: Well, Engorgio, wouldn’t that make every single thing bigger?
Matt: Including the fabric thickness?
Laura: Yeah, and, you know, the width of the sleeves.
Andrew: Yeah, you need – yeah, you grow – come on, guys.
Matt: Well, the robes are going to be like 50 pounds.
Andrew: Why do you guys have to attack her? She’s 11 years old.
Laura: I’m not attacking her.
Matt: I’m not attacking her, I’m attacking you.
Andrew: I’m just kidding. [laughs]
Laura: I’m offering logical conjecture. I’m sorry.
Andrew: Oh, okay. I think it’s a valid question; how do you know that charm – I just think that’s another one of those questions, you know? The toilet questions.
Matt: I think it’s one of those “bombarda” questions where, you know, they would make up a spell just to make an excuse for anything. You can just engorgio for your food just so you can have some to store.
Laura: It seems like something they would do in the movie, to be honest. [laughs]
Andrew: [laughs] Yeah, no, you’re right.
Matt: That was a spell they used in the movie. I don’t remember them saying engorgio in the Goblet of Fire, in the book.
Laura: Well, they didn’t use that one in the book, in Goblet of Fire, but it had been used in other books.
Matt: Oh, it has.
Micah: Didn’t Moody use it on the spider?
Matt: In the movie, yes.
Micah: Not in the book?
Laura: They did it in the movie. No, but they did it in the movie so they can easier illustrate what was being done to the spider.
Micah: Oh, okay.
Micah: But, I mean, how else is Madam Malkin going to stay in business, you know?
Laura: Yeah, do you want to put a Mom-and-Pop shop out of business? We already know what a conflict that is in today’s society. With all the Wal-Marts going out around the country.
Andrew: You are so right. And, you know, kind of – it’s a wonderful debate, I think, yet some people wonder why have we not come up with, you know, cures for cancer and such, and some people say it’s because if you did then some companies who provide, you know, cancer radiation stuff, they would go out of business.
Laura: Well, I don’t think you can really compare…
Laura: …life saving treatment to robes. [laughs]
Andrew: [laughs] Okay, let me go with something more simpler. Why has there been a cure for the common cold yet?
Laura: Because it mutates itself; you can’t.
Andrew: Oh my God.
Andrew: Okay, look, these are valid questions, I know it. I heard them from somewhere intelligent. Next voicemail. Please, get me out of here.
Voicemail: Jo Bringing Her Own Experiences to Harry Potter
[Audio]: Hi, MuggleCasters, this is Ida from the Aland Islands in Finland. I was just watching Jo’s Harvard Commencement speech again, and I thought of something I would like to share with you. Because she talks about working with torture victims through Amnesty, when in her early twenties, and I was thinking that she might’ve drawn from that experience in inventing the Cruciatus Curse and in describing the way Harry felt when hit by that curse, and the way he felt when he thought he was walking towards his death at the end of Deathly Hallows. I just wanted to hear your thoughts about that. Thank you for a great show, I love you guys. Bye!
Andrew: I think that’s a kind of cool question.
Laura: Yeah, definitely.
Andrew: We were talking about where Jo got her inspiration from for writing some things in the book. Laura, what do you think?
Laura: I think that’s entirely possible. In fact, I would be surprised if she hadn’t gained any inspiration from working with torture victims at Amnesty International at all. I think she definitely did. And of course she has her own experience with death that has certainly played a huge role in Harry’s emotions. But, you know, seeing – even as a person – as an everyday person, seeing pictures of torture victims has a profound effect on you, you know? And you just imagine yourself in that situation and it’s horrifying…
Laura: …and to have actually worked with people who have been through these kind of tragedies, I think, would leave a huge influence on her.
Micah: Yeah. And Crucio in Latin means “I torture,” so…
Andrew: Time for the next voicemail.
Voicemail: A Song For Harry’s Non-Death
[Audio]: Hey, MuggleCasters, this is Henry from New York, and even though he didn’t really die, I think that you should have or should play a song for Harry’s death. I was – the one that really popped into my mind was “Let It Be” by The Beatles, so just think about it. I don’t know. All right, thanks, bye.
Andrew: I was talking about this with Micah last night. I think that’s a good idea. Doesn’t Harry deserve a song?
Laura: He didn’t die. He doesn’t get a song.
Laura: You want a song, Harry? Go die. Just kidding.
Andrew: I think “Let It Be” is a perfect song.
Laura: No, no, no, go for it, go for it. I’m just giving you a hard time.
[“Let It Be” by The Beatles plays]
Andrew: Here’s to you, Harry, for the five minutes that we thought you were dead.
Matt: [singing] “Let it be!” I thought we should have put “Midnight Train to Georgia.”
Andrew: [laughs] What is with you and that song?
Matt: [singing] “Because he’s leavin’!”
Andrew: I don’t think Laura would ever recommend taking a midnight train to Georgia, would you, Laura?
Laura: No, and I’ve done it several times and it sucks.
Matt: [singing] “On that midnight train to Georgia.”
Andrew: [laughs] Now it’s time for…
Make the Music Connection
[“Make the Music Connection” intro plays]
Andrew: Oh, yeah. Matt was in charge of it this week. Matt, what have you got for everyone?
Matt: Well, I’ve got some songs.
Andrew: Oh, really?
Matt: [whispering] Oh, my gosh!
Andrew: So, we’ll have Laura go first.
Matt: Okay, we’re going to do Laura.
Andrew: Make the music connection.
Andrew: Very popular song.
Matt: I have the list. Don’t look.
Andrew: I’m not looking!
[“4 Minutes” by Madonna plays]
Andrew: “4 Minutes” by Madonna off her new album Hard Candy.
Andrew: Make the connection.
Laura: All I can really understand through the overly high bass and the…
Laura: …electronic sound on that terrible song was…
[Andrew and Matt laugh]
Laura: …something like, “I’m ready to go,” or something like that? Or “I’m going to go”?
Andrew: Basically, the premise is “I only have four minutes to save the world.”
Laura: Well, you know, I would have to say then that I could relate it to Harry going to meet Voldemort for that final showdown in the forest, or what they thought was going to be the final showdown.
Andrew: Yes, yes.
Laura: Even though Harry had an hour to save the world. Not just four minutes.
Andrew: Oh, that’s true. We can edit that. Someone can make a filk. Anyway, who’s next? Micah?
[“Rehab” by Amy Winehouse plays]
Andrew: “Rehab” by Amy Winehouse.
Micah: I would have to…
Andrew: Make the connection.
Andrew: Make the connection.
Micah: I would have to say that this is Professor Trelawney’s theme song.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: That’s awesome, actually. All right, it’s time for my song now. Here we go.
[“Since U Been Gone” by Kelly Clarkson plays]
Andrew: [sings badly] “But since you been gone! I cannot breathe for the first time.” This is like my favorite song ever. We haven’t used this before for “Make the Music Connection”? No?
Andrew: This is connected to Harry leaving Voldemort – or, sorry [laughs]
Dumbledore leaving Harry. “Since you been gone, I cannot breathe for the first time.
Thanks to you, now I get what I want.” But he really doesn’t get what he wants.
Laura: He still hasn’t found what he’s looking for.
[Andrew, Matt and Micah laugh]
Andrew: Do you ever – well, everyone laughed at it last week and I can’t figure out
why. Anyway. That’s how we play “Make the Music Connection.”
Andrew: Now it’s time for “Favorites.” This one comes from Cassidy Jordan, 15, of Centerville, Ohio. She writes:
“Hey. First I would like to say that I love the show. Andrew and Matt are my favorite hosts of course…”
Andrew: This e-mail was not picked for that reason, I swear.
Andrew: “I have a suggestion to make about a possible segment or something small you
could put into your show. I was thinking that each host could decide what job they
would do if they lived in the magical world. Also, you could think of jobs other real
people might have in the magical world, and even characters in the books that we don’t know where they work. Just a suggestion.”
So I thought for Favorites this week we could do, what would be our favorite job to work in the Wizarding World?
Andrew: Who wants to go first? It’s kind of a good question.
Laura: Yeah, that is a good question. I think International Relations would be cool.
Andrew: Oh god, Laura. Of course it’s political with you.
Laura: International Relations doesn’t have to be political.
Andrew: It can be.
Laura: A lot of the time – well, it can be, but I’m like – okay…
Laura: …let me just…
Andrew: Laura, I’m just kidding.
Laura: You know what? No, Andrew. I am sick of your attitude. I’ve had it.
[Andrew and Matt laugh]
Laura: No, I’m a language major, so that’s probably something I’m going to consider
as a profession anyway. But, I don’t know, I think it would be interesting in a
Andrew: Matt, how about you?
Matt: I don’t know.
Andrew: Micah, how about you?
[Laura and Micah laugh]
Micah: What, you’re not going to give Matt some time to answer there?
Andrew: No, no.
Matt: I’m thinking.
Andrew: But just while you’re answering.
Andrew: Well, if you both need more time.
Matt: Okay, what do you think?
Andrew: I would want to be – being the newsperson that I am, I would be – I’d like
to work for The Daily Prophet after – you know, in today’s society. Not when they were against Harry, of course. I would not want to work for such a publication. Or at least not being controlled by the Ministry.
Matt: Are we going by U.K. standards or are we thinking, like, in the U.S.?
Andrew: What do you mean?
Matt: Being the Wizarding World in the U.S., or…
Andrew: I would say – well, I don’t know. It doesn’t really matter I guess. I would
just like to work for a wizarding newspaper. I think it would be fun to have a
Quick Quote Quill.
Andrew: I want to be the next Rita Skeeter. Matt or Micah, you guys have your favorites?
Matt: I kind of would like to be involved in, like, Magical Creatures. Like if – like Charlie’s job, you know, working with dragons. Just like something – something that is interesting, that gets you out of the house, that you don’t stay in an office all day.
Andrew: Mhm. Micah. Last but not least.
Micah: I don’t know. [laughs] I was going to say something in the Ministry until Matt said something that’s not in an office, but I kind of…
[Andrew and Matt laugh]
Micah: But I guess not everybody in the Ministry is stuck in their office all the time. I don’t know, maybe doing, like…
Micah: …radio play. [laughs] Laura, no.
Andrew: Goats. Goat Keeper…
Matt and Micah: Goat keeper at the Hog’s Head.
Micah: I don’t know, maybe doing like radio play-by-play for a Quidditch team or something like that.
Andrew: That’d be cool, that’d be so cool.
Matt: That’d be cool. You could get us tickets.
Tangent: Quidditch Video Game
Andrew: You know what someone brought up to me the other day and it was kind of random. I can’t remember who now. Someone reminded me of Quidditch World Cup the video game. Did you guys ever play that?
Laura: Oh yeah, I did. It was pretty lame.
Andrew: No, no! That game was awesome! That was the best Harry Potter game to date.
Matt: It’s still lame though.
Andrew: It was made by EA Sports, it was fast-paced. I thought it was a lot of fun.
Laura: The only cool thing about it was you could be other teams.
Matt: I never played it.
Andrew: You could be other teams, yeah! The graphics looked good, I just – oh that was a wonderful game. Who brought that up to me? I can’t remember. But yeah, I liked it.
Andrew: Was it?
Chicken Soup for the MuggleCast Soul
Andrew: Oh. Nevermind. All right, well, we’ll wrap things up today with a Chicken Soup for the MuggleCast Soul: School Edition!
[Chicken Soup Intro plays]
Andrew: School Edition!
Matt: Ahhhhhh. Okay.
Andrew: It comes from Tom, 12 of Long Island, New York he writes:
“I love your show and I have a story to tell. I started listening to MuggleCast by Episode 30. I stopped by Episode 100 for reasons I now forget. All year I’ve been bullied in school and I always was miserable and hated school. Then in January (I’m still going on MuggleNet) an episode sounded really good and I downloaded it. I listened to it and fell in love with it once again. From then on whenever I was feeling horrible I would go to my iPod and listen to you guys and would feel great once more. Now at the end of my school year I feel I must thank you, as without you I would feel always like there was a Dementor near me.”
Andrew: “Thank you so much and keep up the great work.”
Andrew: Well, Tom…
Matt: We were his Patronus, that’s cool.
Micah: Well, Tom, where do you go to school? I’ll pay them a visit.
Laura: Oh, there you go.
Andrew and Matt: Ooooh!
Andrew: Micah, maybe we can put you in contact with Tom and you can like stand behind him as his body guard.
Micah: Yeah. If he lives on Long Island.
Andrew: Yeah. You live there. Right?
Micah: [laughs] I do live there.
Andrew: You should go kick some – some – some elementary school butt.
Matt: He’s in junior high.
Andrew: Or middle school. Yeah, middle school, junior high. Anyway, well, I think we have reached the end…
Micah: What was your advice? You were going to give advice.
Andrew: No, I had nothing – no, it wasn’t going to be like – I shouldn’t make a joke out of it. I mean the poor kid gets
bullied, that’s kind of sad. [laughs] It is sad, actually.
Andrew: So it’s time to remind everyone about our contact information. Laura, what’s the P.O. Box?
Laura: It’s P.O. Box 3151, Cumming, Georgia, 30028. And please, if you’ve had anything returned to you, e-mail me. Because we have one person who had something returned to sender and I don’t know why that is, because I just paid for the next six months on the P.O. Box.
Andrew: Well, yeah, we should say what was returned. What was returned, Laura?
Laura: It was an umbrella for Mikey! A pink umbrella.
Andrew: A pink one. As Mikey requested. We still haven’t told him yet, but, you know, he said if someone sent a pink umbrella he’ll sing and dance in the rain or something, so once we get that umbrella we will definitely film him doing that, and I think it would be a very funny video.
Andrew: Anyway, you know we did the voicemails on the show this week, and if you want to be a part of our voicemail
segment we have some numbers for you to use.
[Show music begins]
Andrew: If you are in the United States you can dial 1-218-20-MAGIC. If you are in the United Kingdom you can dial
02081440677, and if you’re in Australia you can dial 02800035668. You can also Skype the username MuggleCast, but remember no
matter how you call us, please keep your message under a minute, and eliminate as much background noise as possible. Leave some good questions. We’ll do some more next week. Don’t forget, you can also visit MuggleCast.com for our handy feedback form to contact any one of us, or just use our first name at staff dot mugglenet dot com. We also have a variety of community outlets, including the MySpace, Facebook, YouTube, Frappr, Last.FM, and the fanlisting and the forums over at MuggleCastFan.net/Forums. You can also follow us on Twitter.com/MuggleCast, Digg the show at Digg.com, and vote for us once a month at Podcast Alley. Please make sure to do that soon because it is a new month!
Andrew: And that is about it. Next week we have another regular show and then it will be our live episode from Portus 2008.
Matt: Well, it’s two more episodes of Chapter-by-Chapter too.
Andrew: Yes. We have two more Chapter-by-Chapters. We’re still deciding whether or not we’re going to do the final – we’re going to do the epilogue at the podcast. We’ll see.
Andrew: It depends on if there’s more to talk about, like a trailer or something.
Matt: I mean if it’s a short – it’s a short chapter too.
Andrew: Yeah. It won’t take long.
Matt: I mean, in all seriousness, we don’t have a very long time frame for the live show anyway.
Matt: It’s only an hour long.
Andrew: Right. Well, as I said, that does do it for this week. Once again, I’m Andrew Sims.
Laura: I’m Laura Thompson.
Micah: I’m Micah Tannenbaum.
Matt: And I’m Matt Britton.
Andrew: We’ll see you next week for Episode 152. Buh-bye!
[Show music ends]
Matt: And I’m Matthew Britton.
Andrew: Wait. Try that again.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: Your mic was down. Do it again. [laughs]
Andrew: I turned it down because you were making noise. Do it again.
Matt: Don’t touch my mic.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Matt: I’ll tell you when you can touch my mic.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Matt: Stop playing around with my mic. It does not like to be touched.
Andrew: Okay! Do it!
Matt: And I’m Matt Britton.
Andrew: There we go.