Transcript for MuggleCast Episode #321, “Seraphina”
Show Intro
[Show music plays]
Andrew Sims: This is MuggleCast, the Harry Potter podcast discussing everything about J.K. Rowling’s wizarding world. This week’s episode is sponsored by Harry’s, who offer a great shave at a fair price. Get $5 off a shave set when you go to Harrys.com/MuggleCast. Welcome to MuggleCast, Episode 321. I’m Andrew.
Eric Scull: I’m Eric.
Micah Tannenbaum: And I’m Micah. Clap.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Eric: Micah likes our new audio syncing practice.
Andrew: Still working it out all these years later.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: We have a character discussion today on the President of MACUSA. The bigwig.
Eric: [gasps] Not Newt Scamander?
Andrew: No.
Eric: Hmm!
Andrew: Yes, we’re saving him for last, because we figured we don’t want to… I said something adult when I was speaking off-air to Eric. We don’t want to climax too early, so we’re going to…
Eric: Yeah, well, I thought it was very strategic, too, just in case over the next three or four or five weeks we get more information on Newt, because I think if any more information comes about the next film, it’ll probably affect him the most.
Andrew: Most likely, yeah. So we’ll be talking about Seraphina today, and then we have some feedback from listeners. We’re also going to do some more first-time experiencing Harry Potter stories.
Eric: Aww.
Andrew: I have a little addition to add to that as well. It’s not my first time, but since I’m back home in New Jersey through the summer, I have my original Harry Potter books, and I have some things in them that I want to share.
Eric: The memories have come flooding back to you.
Andrew: [emotionally] The memories! All the tears are dried up in the pages.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: But I had to tell you guys this story. So last night I was at my brother-in-law’s birthday party – he turned 30 – and my brother’s girlfriend is there, and she’s 18. Ryan is a little older; he’s about… he just turned 21. She’s a little younger.
Eric: Oh my God, I remember when he was, like, 6.
Andrew: I know. He was a big MuggleNet/MuggleCast supporter. “Gack, gack, Pickle Pack!”
[Eric laughs]
Micah: Nice job, Ryan.
Andrew: [laughs] So we’re talking about Harry Potter, and I’m filling his girlfriend in because we haven’t really spoken much; I just met her the other day. And we’re talking about Harry Potter, and I was drunk, so I can’t remember this story exactly, but at one point I’m like, “Yeah, and I used to go to the midnight release parties,” and she’s like, “For the books?” I’m like, “Yes. Yes, 18-year-old, there were midnight release parties for the books.”
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: She couldn’t believe it! And I was like, “Oh, man, am I feeling old now.” They’re all so used to the midnight movie release parties, and if you think about it, somebody her age actually… think of the last time there was a midnight release party for a book. I would say maybe the final Divergent book? But I’m not even sure there was for that.
Eric: Well, and if she’s 18 now, it means she would have been 8 when Deathly Hallows came out, and that’s kind of… it’s not too young to go to a book release premiere, but I mean, I would understand if she wasn’t there at age 8 for Deathly Hallows, and that was really the last big one. I know Divergent did it; I don’t want to shuffle that off to the side. But yeah, Harry Potter was… I mean, those are the ones that you hear about and read about on international newspapers the day after.
Andrew: Exactly, exactly. I’m thinking maybe Mockingjay was the last midnight book. People listening live on Patreon may be able to help us out too. But I miss the good old midnight release parties for a book.
Eric: Yeah, I mean, what are the most anticipated books these days? They’re probably political autobiographies, or autobiographies in general, comedian autobiographies. But even then I’m not sure that everyone’s lining up at midnight to read about anyone in particular. It’s a lost art. It’s a lost art. These event series or event books, like Harry Potter, are one in a million, is what I want to say.
Andrew: Actually, our patrons are reminding us – James and Katy are reminding us – of one very obvious.
Eric: Stop. Don’t even say it.
Andrew: Cursed Child had midnight… [laughs]
Eric: Don’t. No.
Andrew: Doesn’t count?
Eric: Not a thing.
Andrew: No? Well, so we went to the midnight… LeakyCon had a midnight release party. I would have went to a midnight release party if I wasn’t there. I know Barnes & Noble stores did have them.
Eric: It was great seeing Harry Potter books stacked in boxes, in the boxes they come in with the embargo notice on the side. Seeing that again was really soul-fulfilling.
Andrew: Yeah. I took one of the boxes. I still have it.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: I also have a Half-Blood Prince – I’m looking at them right now – Half-Blood Prince box, Order of the Phoenix box, and Goblet of Fire box. That is old school.
Eric: And I don’t want to come off as ageist, but yeah, an 18-year-old too. These days I just wonder… because growing up with Harry Potter, we still put a lot of weight and interest in books, and I just don’t know if the physical medium is in fact really totally dying, not with us, but with the people 10 or 12 years younger. What experience does this person – your brother’s girlfriend – have with books, man? Holding books? I want to know now, because…
Andrew: Well, she is a reader; she just…
Micah: She went to an ebook release party, Eric.
Andrew: [laughs] Right.
Eric: Yeah, which is “Sit in front of my Kindle at 11:59 and open up the updates, the notification updates for the…”
Andrew: Yeah. Well, no, but I mean, in her defense, she is a huge nerd. She is a huge Star Wars fan. So you would think somebody like her would actually be aware of book release parties, but it’s so archaic at this point, I guess not.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Eric: Huh.
Micah: Well, I was just going to say, though, that you’re not doing yourself any favors in mentioning two stolen items after last week’s episode, when you also tipped your cap a little bit that you may have been the one responsible for stealing that story that J.K. Rowling wrote.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Yeah, you’re just a thief. Just a big klepto.
Andrew: I asked permission to take that Cursed Child box, if that’s what you’re referring to.
Micah: From who?
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: They don’t care. I’m saving them from going into the dumpster. I’m doing…
Micah: Recycling? Saving the planet?
Andrew: The landfills, yeah.
Eric: He’s saving them from saving the planet.
Micah: Well, I was just going to say that those release parties, I think, were very unique, and I know we talked about some other series that have done them, but I don’t think you saw quite the buzz that Potter created, particularly around the release of Deathly Hallows, what is it, ten years ago at this point?
[Andrew weeps]
Micah: So it’s pretty scary, number one, to think that that was ten years ago…
Eric: Isn’t it?
Micah: … and then just the sheer scope of those celebrations, and it didn’t just happen for the seventh book. When did it really start? is my question. When did you really start to see these midnight release parties for Potter books?
Eric: It was Goblet of Fire. It was Goblet of Fire.
Andrew: It was Goblet of Fire.
Eric: Because Goblet of Fire was the first book for which the release date was the same in the US and the UK, and I’m assuming other countries as well. But that was the big one, because the first three books in the UK published first, and Scholastic published the US ones the next summer, or if they released in the fall, it was March or April or May when they came out in the US. So Goblet of Fire was June 2000, and that was the big, big book release party. That was where Scholastic sent all this material, all the signage and stuff to your local bookstore…
Andrew: Countdown to midnight. Countdown to release, yeah.
Eric: Borders, Waldenbooks, Barnes & Noble… whatever your favorite little stores were, and then that was where they had the countdowns and all that.
Andrew: I was in Ocean City, New Jersey for the release of Goblet of Fire…
Eric: Oh, no way.
Andrew: … and I walked to the midnight release party with my cousin, and I think my mom went. And we still have pictures; I think I may have posted them online at some point. But yeah, and actually, I was just down there earlier this week, and I walked by where the bookstore was.
Eric: Aww.
Andrew: Now it’s some… it’s not a bookstore anymore.
Eric: Is it a fro-yo place?
Andrew: [laughs] It’s some ocean knick-knack… I’m like, “I miss when this was a bookstore, when I walked in and bought Harry Potter in the year 2000 at midnight release.”
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Eric: Ryan’s girlfriend was a year old.
Andrew: Oh, gosh. I’m going to tell him to start dating older.
[Eric and Micah laugh]
Andrew: I can’t have him be with a girl who doesn’t know about book midnight release parties.
Eric: Get you a girl who knows about the book… yeah.
[Andrew laughs]
News
Andrew: So before we talk about Seraphina, let’s talk a little news. Speaking of nighttime Harry Potter excitement, Wizarding World Hollywood is getting a big nighttime show beginning this summer. It’s starting June 23; it’s going to run multiple times per night. It’s called “Nighttime Lights at Hogwarts Castle.” It’s a five-minute show. Now, here’s something interesting about it: The score appears to have been composed by John Williams himself. He put this mishmash of Harry Potter hits together, things that he wrote himself all those years ago, of course. They have a 27.5 point surround sound system.
Eric: 27.5?!
Andrew: Yeah. Normal home surround sound is like, 5 point, five speakers. So some Los Angeles media got to check it out early, and they were saying it’s just very immersive with all the different speakers; you hear different things coming out of each one. We had spoken about this previously on MuggleCast, I think, because when they opened Wizarding World Hollywood, which I went to, they did a show on the castle, and it was awesome. It was really amazing. And there’s video online if you want to check it out; maybe I’ll put it in the show notes. So that was a hit, and rumors almost immediately started that they’re going to do something like that more often, because it was just so cool. So it’s interesting, because it kind of competes with Disneyland. Universal Hollywood really hasn’t had any nighttime shows that I’m aware of, and of course, Harry Potter is a big draw. So yeah, that’s happening.
Eric: No, this is cool. Unique lights, any big productions like this, really cool technical stuff with lights or fireworks, I dig it. Especially if it’s five minutes long, you’re in the park already, just like, “Oh, let’s stand and watch the beauty of, and marvel in, human achievement here.”
Andrew: While drinking butterbeer.
Eric: While drinking butterbeer, or pumpkin juice.
Andrew: Or a Hog’s Head brew.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: So yeah, unfortunately, my pass expired, and I’m also no longer in Los Angeles, so I’m not going to be seeing it anytime soon. [laughs]
Eric: It’s a good thing you didn’t get that year-round parking pass, then. [laughs]
Andrew: No. Yeah, absolutely. But I’m sure video will be on YouTube, and we will all be able to enjoy it from the comfort of our parking fee-free homes. Today is Sunday, May 21, and this is….
Eric: Twin Peaks day.
Andrew: [laughs] It’s Twin Peaks day. What is Twin Peaks, Eric?
Eric: It’s a show.
Andrew: For all the 18-year-olds listening.
Eric: Oh, God. It’s a TV show that you were nine years not yet born yet when it first aired in 1990-1991, and Season 3 airs tonight. Woo!
Andrew: It’s a big deal.
Micah: Wait, what?
Eric: Big deal. Season 3 of Twin Peaks. Twin Peaks is coming back.
Micah: But you said 1991.
Eric: 1990-1991.
Micah: And you said third season?
Andrew: Yeah, they’re bringing back a third season.
Eric: Yeah, it aired for two seasons, ending in 1991, and they renewed, they came back, and Season 3 premieres tonight. Anyway, it’s May 21. You were saying, Andrew?
Micah: [laughs] That’s a hell of a gap.
Eric: Yeah, it’s a big gap, yeah.
Andrew: Yeah, well, Roseanne is coming back.
Eric: Well, the show was technically canceled, and then they…
Andrew: Right.
Eric: Yeah, but quite a cool thing: In the ending episode, there was a supernatural experience where some characters said to the other, “See you in 25 years,” and sure enough.
Andrew: Oh, that’s cool. I didn’t know that.
Eric: Yeah, it’s really cool. But there is a tie-in to Harry Potter in this day. I’m sorry. [laughs]
Andrew: Anyway, so today… not only is it Twin Peaks day, but it is the final day of Cursed Child for the original cast.
[Eric gasps]
Micah: Thank God.
Andrew: We heard about the new characters… or sorry, the new cast members about a month ago. “Thank God”?!
Micah: What?
Andrew: Is that what you said? What did you say?
Micah: No, I didn’t say anything like that.
Andrew: [laughs] What, you don’t like these cast members?
Micah: No, I think they’re great. Very talented people. I have nothing to compare it to.
Andrew: All right, all right. Well, I’ve got bad news for you, Micah: The show isn’t over. It’s still happening. It’s just the cast members are…
Micah: Well, look, I’ll tell you why I said, “Thank God.” It’s because I think that it’s very unfair the way the owl was treated at the beginning of this production…
Eric: [laughs] Stop.
Micah: … and the fact that all these other people got to stay throughout the course of these last several months is just not right.
Eric: Let’s congratulate all of the actors on their newfound freedom.
Andrew: [laughs] Uh-huh. Yeah, they’re as free as that owl.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Andrew: So anyway, the reason I mention it is because here in the MuggleCast News Center, we’re keeping an eye on their Twitter accounts. I’m sure there’ll be some nice messages going up before or after the show. It’s an end of an era. These shows consume you for a good year, and now they’re moving on to other ventures. I’m sure they’re all set for life now that they starred in “that Harry Potter play,” so it will be interesting to see what they do next. But I’m looking forward to the messages, the emotional, “Goodbye, Cursed Child. I’ll miss you.”
[Eric laughs]
Micah: Well, they can always come back and do it 25 years from now, just like Twin Peaks.
Eric: Yeah, exactly.
Andrew: That’s true, yes.
Eric: Exactly. Before they leave the stage, they’ll do a bow and say, “See you in 25 years.”
Andrew: I’m hoping that this new cast makes Scorbus real. I want them to play up Scorbus, so I need to go and see it, see the new cast members and learn if they pull it off.
Eric: Well, we mentioned last week that the New York premieres April 22 of next year. I’m so into that, definitely going to see it, and I hope Scorbus is a thing in that production as well.
Andrew: Yes, yes. Absolutely. We want to remind you about this week’s sponsor, Harry’s.
[Ad break]
Main Discussion: Seraphina Picquery
Andrew: All right, so Eric, let’s talk Seraphina.
Eric: Let’s talk Seraphina Picquery, President of MACUSA. The coolest thing to know about Seraphina is that prior to the release of Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them the film, Seraphina was name-dropped a couple of times over on Pottermore, and this was actually really, really cool, and I’d like to lead off with all of the Pottermore stuff that exists about Seraphina, because we have a number of scenes in the film where she is sort of an opponent to the quartet, to our heroes, right? She’s trying to maintain order in the wizarding world. But Pottermore really gave some interesting backstory, which showcases that she’s actually – sort of just like Tina – secretly badass. She’s great; she’s actually really cool. So I wanted to lead off with this, but in the piece titled “1920s Wizarding America,” it says, “After the Great Sasquatch Rebellion of 1892 (for full details, see Ortiz O’Flaherty’s highly-acclaimed book, ‘Big Foot’s Last Stand’), MACUSA headquarters was relocated for the fifth time in its history, moving from Washington to New York, where it remained throughout the 1920s. President of MACUSA throughout the decade was Madam Seraphina Picquery, a famously gifted witch from Savannah.” So she comes from Georgia in the United States, and she actually has a really interesting, unique Ilvermorny experience. We’ve heard about Hatstalls, right? Pottermore debuted the idea of Hatstalls when they debuted their Sorting quiz, because actually, it was possible to get more than one House, and I remember that bit coming out where it was specifically on Hatstalls, and we learned that… was it McGonagall or Flipwick were both Hatstalls? Hermione was almost one? Something like that. Anyway, Seraphina was an Ilvermorny Hatstall, and here’s how that worked, because there’s not a hat. It says, “While the rest of the school watches from the circular balcony overhead, new students file into the round entrance hall.” This is at Ilvermorny. “They stand around the walls and, one by one, are called to stand on the symbol of the Gordian Knot set into the middle of the stone floor. In silence the school then waits for the enchanted carvings to react. If the Horned Serpent wants the student, the crystal set into its forehead will light up. If the Wampus wants the student, it roars. The Thunderbird signifies its approval by beating its wings, and the Pukwudgie will raise its arrow into the air. Should more than one carving signify its wish to include the student in its House, the choice rests with the student. Very rarely – perhaps once a decade – a student is offered a place in all four Houses. Seraphina Picquery, President of MACUSA 1920-1928, was the only witch of her generation so honored, and she chose Horned Serpent.”
Andrew: Why did you choose that, Seraphina? Why?
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: Is it because it’s the coolest House? It certainly sounds like one of the coolest Houses.
Eric: Horned Serpent? Yeah, Horned Serpent, I’ll remind everybody at home, is the House at Ilvermorny that represents the mind. It’s the most Ravenclaw-like House there is, and I just think it’s so… who is this person? She’s not only a Hatstall where she’s torn between two Houses, but literally every House at Ilvermorny wanted her. I think that’s pretty cool.
Andrew: Yeah. I wonder if this Sorting process is J.K. Rowling’s way of making up for the less than… it’s a very fancy experience at Ilvermorny, the jewels lighting up and all that, whereas at Hogwarts, the Sorting Hat is just this raggedy, nasty old thing.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: The difference between them – the great difference between them – is interesting, I think.
Eric: Yeah. I mean, the hat’s a relic of a founder, right? So you’re like, “Oh, this is just our story.” But it’s just as unique at Ilvermorny, the way it’s carved in and built in.
Micah: I like Ilvermorny’s better. What about you?
Eric: [laughs] Wow, you’re full of controversial things to say this episode. I agree, it’s much more majestic if you’re going to study magic at school. A talking head is pretty cool; I think we’re just desensitized.
Micah: It is. But like Andrew said, your first experience at this school is, “Hey, put this dirty sock on your head.”
Eric: [laughs] “Dirty sock.”
Micah: As opposed to this really formalized process.
Andrew: Does the Sorting Hat smell?
Micah: I’m sure it does. It’s got to…
Eric: I’m sure it’s cleaned regularly. Come on.
Micah: By who? Who cleans the hat? Filch?
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: There’s no head lice. Magic. The house-elves. But just don’t tell them it’s a sock, or they’ll wear it and they’ll be free.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Eric: I agree, though. Honestly, I really do. There’s a certain majesty to this grand entrance hall, which is explained more… by the way, that article was the one on Ilvermorny on Pottermore. And yeah, this is why I want to see Ilvermorny in the Fantastic Beasts films, because it just has a lot of really cool-seeming architecture, and the practices are different enough that it wouldn’t feel boring to experience, especially knowing that Queenie and Tina, both who we’ve just talked about on the show, went there and proclaim it to be the best school there is. So pretty cool stuff. But getting towards the film here, something that I came across, which is interesting… it is so very interesting in Fantastic Beasts – to me, at least – how America is very backwards, very… in fact, Newt, that’s the word he uses, “backwards,” in dealing with their Muggle relations. And the plot of Fantastic Beasts is set in a world where wizards are more than usual, more than average worldwide, kept in the shadows, and they have to hide from Muggles. They fear Muggles, they fear exposure, they fear… Seraphina herself fears war. She said this a number of times in the movie; she’s like, “I’m trying to avoid a war here.” And yet, for all their backwards-ness, she is a woman person of color president of the wizarding world in 1920. We still, in 2017, have not had an American president who is a woman, and we only just got over having a person of color as our president. And so in 1920, isn’t it a bit shocking and jarring, even, that Seraphina, who is the…? I mean, this speaks to her competence, this speaks to her just awesomeness, strength of character, that she was, I presume, elected.
Andrew: I think it’s also a statement on diversity in the wizarding world, and how diversity is a non-issue. [laughs] They’re a lot more forward-thinking in the wizarding world than they are in the Muggle world at this point, so maybe that’s J.K. Rowling’s comment on that. With that said, there was a little backlash with Fantastic Beasts because it was a very white film, so maybe J.K. Rowling was looking to add a person of color in there and was just… I know that could be a potentially explosive comment to make. [laughs]
Eric: No, I think also… and one of our patrons made this. The comment is not loading, but on the doc. Somebody was talking about on the Patreon, and I will find it and credit you later. But they said because the wizards are such a smaller community as well, that they can’t afford to be racist because they’re so much smaller, and there’s just… that diversity is something that was embraced much sooner as a result of that.
Micah: I don’t know if I necessarily agree with that statement the way that it’s phrased, but…
Eric: I phrased it that way. It was not a quote from the patron, so that’s on me.
Micah: I just think that maybe the race relations in both America and other parts of the world are not the same, as we know them to be from our own history. And there could be any number of reasons for that, but I still think that you have certain issues as it relates to the magical race and the nonmagical race, and I think that is a larger issue at hand, as opposed to some of the more… I don’t know if you’d say specific issues that would normally be taking place. Does that make sense?
Eric: Yeah, it’s just that it’s not even a factor in the way anybody relates to or judges or decides what to do in this film. It’s a complete and utter non-issue to these wizards, which is fantastic. In so many ways, America in Fantastic Beasts is dreary, bleak, backwards, depressing, horrible, but in this way, it’s a really strong step forward. And like I said, in 1926 more wizards were, in some ways in America, more advanced than we are now, so I think that’s pretty cool. But it also speaks to Seraphina’s competence, which again, as I stated. But in the film you don’t actually get to see her battle too much; there’s no wizard duel. She goes where the destruction is, and she’s commanding a team of Aurors, but she is not actually thrust into battle the way that our heroes are, the way that the quartet is. And so it’s important to speak to her prowess as a witch, because we don’t actually see it in this film. Now, there’s also a question as to whether or not we will see her again, because as it’s stated on Pottermore, she was president from 1920 to 1928. Now, if you’re looking at American history, you think, “Oh, eight years for a president; that’s great. She had two terms, two four-year terms.” But my research on this fact revealed that the two-term limit was not actually installed. I believe it was a constitutional amendment, but it was set up in 1947 and ratified by the states in 1951. So because FDR, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, was president for 12 years, from 1933 to 1945, and that was basically the war time, he got elected president for the third time. That was eight years after the events of Fantastic Beasts. So actually, the fact that Seraphina served a two-term limit… could the American wizards be so forward that they had two four-year term limits even in 1926? Am I overthinking this?
Andrew: [laughs] No, I think that’s a fair guess. I don’t think we have anything else to base it off of, but maybe they were a little more forward-thinking in terms of what a lot of power could do over the long term, right?
Eric: Huh. Yeah, self-skeptical, kind of self-policing, like that. Because it is… I mean, America is all about checks and balances. That’s the whole reason this… the term limit is like, “Oh, we don’t want a dynasty in here.”
Andrew: Yeah. But in terms of her appearing again in these films, I don’t think it is going to happen, because since we are moving overseas… which is a shame, because… and I guess it’s all just very confusing at this point. We learn a lot of new information about this character just to see her a little bit in a film, and now that we’re going to be in Paris for the second one, and potentially other places in Europe, I guess she could somehow get involved, but it seems like it’d make most sense if she stayed in America. She shouldn’t leave her post there.
Eric: Well, the International Confederation of Wizards came to New York, all those wizards in that room, and they were, I presume, prime ministers and leaders of their individual nations. So I think she might show up as a cameo in the future. If there’s an international delegation, but it’s at the Ministry of Magic, for instance, there can be a line where Seraphina passes by Newt and is like, “Mr. Scamander, hey.” [laughs] I think it’s possible.
Micah: It’s very possible, and we’re anticipating the second film opening with Grindelwald breaking out of prison, or at least there being a part of that story that is very much at the forefront of the second film. So one would believe, since she is being entrusted with his imprisonment, that she would be involved in some capacity.
Andrew: Ohh, good point.
Micah: And there’s also Tina. Tina still works for MACUSA. We know that Graves is probably gone at this point, but I just think that, Eric, what you brought up with the International Confederation, I think there’s more to her moving forward on the international scene, not maybe specifically working side by side every step of the way with Newt or Queenie or Tina or Jacob or any combination of those, but I think she is going to be involved at a higher level, almost like an M, right? From MI6?
Eric: Oh, yeah. I love it.
Andrew: That’d be pretty cool.
Eric: Couple things here, though, too, because we know these films… we know the Fantastic Beasts films will last… will span the period of time ending in 1945. Picquery will only be president until 1928, according to Pottermore, so there is another 17 years where who knows what she’ll do afterwards?
Andrew: Oh, yeah.
Eric: I mean, maybe she’ll go golfing, but…
Andrew: Or maybe she’ll go help Newt somehow. [laughs]
Eric: Maybe she’ll go help Newt, exactly. She can be a huge resource, being such a talented witch, as we’ve established she is… which, by the way, I’ve got to talk about her wand. But the alternative, though, is that the wizarding world is not as forward-thinking as we thought, there were not two-term limits 15 years before there were in the United States, and in 1928, Seraphina dies. So that’s a possibility.
Andrew: Oh, well, wait, wait, wait, I don’t think we should jump to death. What if she just steps down to go help Newt? Maybe she feels bad about… she feels guilty for Grindelwald breaking out, potentially, assuming he’s being imprisoned in America.
Eric: I would love to believe that, but if he breaks out, you think he’s going to leave her? Do you think it won’t involve…?
Andrew: Kill her?
Eric: Yeah, do you think that his breakout scene will also include…? Because all we know is that she stops being president in 1928, so it’s already 1927, because it was December 1926 when Fantastic Beasts ended. And so say Grindelwald is imprisoned for a year in America, finally hoodwinks the right people or convinces the right people to let him out. Does he escape without killing people? Or is Seraphina sort of going to be a huge martyr, and sort of the last ditch… he has to kill her to escape? It’s a sad, sobering thought, but all we know from Pottermore is that she’s no longer president after 1928, and there’s no further future information.
Andrew: So the mystery continues.
Eric: Let’s talk about her wand.
Andrew: But I mean…
Eric: Oh, go on.
Andrew: No, I was just going to say I think there clearly is a lot of room there. I didn’t realize that, I don’t think, that she was only there till 1928, so that opens up a world of possibilities. Anyway, her wand.
Eric: Her wand!
Andrew: The coolest wand ever in the wizarding world, in my opinion.
Eric: Yeah, this is a pretty cool wand. It’s a rougarou hair. So rougarou… I’m going to pull my copy of Fantastic Beasts and see if it’s in… I doubt it’s in there. A rougarou hair core wand, so I guess just like phoenix tail feather, it’s a bit of… what’s the one that’s the hair? Is it dragon heartstring, phoenix tail feather… unicorn hair. It’s just like unicorn hair. They have hair in the core of the wand. Anyway, I’m doting. You understand what it means. I just needed a moment.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: It’s a swamp mayhaw wood, and the biggest thing… this comes from a section on Pottermore about wands and wandmakers in America, if you remember that article. And it turns out that Seraphina’s wand was made by Violetta Beauvais, and “Violetta Beauvais, the famous wandmaker of New Orleans, refused for many years to divulge the secret core of her wands, which were always made of swamp mayhaw wood. Eventually it was discovered that they contained hair of the rougarou, the dangerous dog-headed monster that prowled Louisiana swamps. It was often said of Beauvais wands that they took to Dark Magic like vampires to blood, yet many an American wizarding hero of the 1920s went into battle armed only with a Beauvais wand, and President Picquery herself was known to possess one.” So here’s…
Andrew: But the coolest part is that it’s pink.
Eric: [laughs] Is it pink?
Andrew: Yes!
Eric: What?!
Andrew: It’s a pink wand. I mean, the bottom of it is. The handle part is.
Eric: Oh, is there a gem? Is there a gem in the…?
Andrew: I guess so? I don’t know, but Google “Seraphina Picquery wand.” And this is one of the ones you can buy from Ollivanders, by the way. I was very surprised by it, because we have never seen a wand like this before in the wizarding world. [laughs] Such a unique color.
Eric: I’m looking for it. Oh, God, that’s…
Andrew: It even comes in a pink box. Wow, I might have to buy this.
Eric: [laughs] You’re right, it is pink. It’s bright pink. There’s actually another… speaking of Pottermore, though, there’s an article where Carmen Ejogo, who plays Seraphina in the film, raves about just having her wand and holding her wand. It’s pretty cool. She says, “It’s so beautiful! I am so in love with my wand. Maybe subconsciously I willed the designers to give me the one with the big gem on it,” she says, twinkle-eyed. And then Ezra Miller apparently told her that there are very different schools of wandmakers. “He was quite taken aback by mine because he recognized it was made by a very different wandmaker than he was accustomed to. It really does stand out among other wands.”
Andrew: Yeah, well, I don’t think you actually see her wand in the movie.
Eric: Yeah, I don’t either.
Andrew: I mean, you do, but not the cool bottom part.
Eric: You know it’s in her pocket. [laughs] What was it Jon Voight was saying about the inkwell that had ink in it?
Andrew: Oh, yeah.
Eric: Yeah, you know she’s carrying her wand; you just… you’re right, because she doesn’t do battle, so you don’t really see it. So I think this is…
Andrew: What a shame.
Eric: Yeah, this is also a quote from Carmen, I think. “There’s going to be something very, very powerful coming out of that wand when it’s needed,” says Carmen. “The wrath of Seraphina is yet to emerge from it. But it’s elegant and regal, which probably reveals something of her personality.”
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: But she never uses it, though.
Eric: Not yet.
Micah: I mean, that’s the interesting part about that comment, so I wondered if anything else was left on the cutting room floor, or is there more to come in future films?
Eric: Well, yeah.
Micah: Because we don’t really see her in action, at least that I can remember, in this film.
Eric: So here’s another quote from Carmen, though. “I don’t think that Seraphina is ostentatious in any way, but I do think she is commanding and she knows the power that she yields. That wand represents that power. You can tell that something epic will happen when it’s used. Seraphina’s kind of like that. She’s epic.” Let’s get into the movie here, because we’ve had a good discussion so far, but I want to get to sort of where we see her in…
Micah: I had a question for our group, though…
Eric: Yeah, go on.
Micah: … before we move on to the movie specifically, because I think it is relevant, the fact that her wand is made from the hair of the rougarou, and that it references the fact that oftentimes these wands take to being used by Dark wizards, or they perform Dark Magic. And is that just a case that Seraphina is the exception to a very seemingly important rule here, or is there a Dark side to her?
Andrew: Eh… well, she’s very… she’s obviously in a position of great power. I doubt she got there if she had a dirty record, a Dark record, so I’m more inclined to believe that she has these special powers, these unique abilities, and she’s an exception to the rule.
Eric: Yeah, because I think that’s what the wand paragraph is really saying, is like, “Okay, these wands are said to favor Dark Magic, but you get a light wizard or a hero…” That word is used, hero. “Many of the heroes of the 1920s, Picquery included, were said to possess one,” and it’s like, oh, so it’s just sort of a Gryffindor thing. It’s just a formidable wand that you’re more likely to use if you have a hero complex. So Picquery is more like Harry, but that might put her more in danger, which we’ll talk about soon. So actually, the interesting thing about Picquery in the film is she’s always set against Tina. Basically, Tina, after meeting Newt at the very beginning of the film, barges into this meeting of the Aurors, and is basically chastised by Seraphina for… and not only that, but President Picquery does not listen to what she has to say. She’s there with Newt with what she believes is the case of beasts, and is completely dismissed; Seraphina is not even hearing any of it. So you can see this film and really not like President Picquery at first.
Andrew: Yeah, well, she’s clearly pissed at Tina for what she did in her past, and I don’t see that… well, I mean, now I would think that they didn’t really get a makeup scene in the movie, but I would think that Seraphina looks at Tina in a different light now that she was right about Newt and his beasts, that Seraphina shouldn’t have ignored her urgent pleas.
Eric: [laughs] Yeah.
Micah: And it was interesting, because we saw sort of differing opinions on Seraphina’s character in the responses that we got on Twitter, some of them referencing what you were talking about, Eric, in terms of her treatment of her. One that comes to mind: Victor here says, “She’s a self-serving politician who berated Tina in front of the ICW, and stringently upholds Rappaport’s Law as an appeal to populism.” That’s deep.
Eric: Yeah, that’s real deep. I don’t know about that last part. I mean, I agree with it, but I would need to look up some words.
Micah: And then just really quick to add these other two in here, because I think they’ll help add to the discussion. Ginny says… I don’t know if that’s the real Ginny or not. But anyway, “So much promise, but such a disappointment! More Fudge than Shacklebolt. Great costume, though.” And then Eric Faulkner said, “She comes off as incompetent as Fudge in her duties to wizard and No-Maj kind.”
Eric: I mean, Seraphina, end of the day, is trying to run a government, and it can’t be easy. They’re in these backward times, and I think she truly believes in the goodness, well, of keeping wizards secret. I think that’s a huge… she really just believes that it is the right thing to do, and Grindelwald questions that, rightly so. He’s very persuasive the way he does. But ultimately, she’s made this decision, and it’s law. We don’t know what kind of Senate or House of Representatives or whatever that Seraphina answers to in addition to the wizarding public, but I don’t think her being a politician, calling her a self-serving politician… I really don’t think that she’s self-serving. I think that she…
Micah: I don’t think there’s enough evidence of that.
Eric: Yeah, yeah. She has a country to serve! And I think that’s what she’s doing. And just because, as so often happens in Harry Potter, breaking the rules is the fun thing to do, breaking the rules is the right thing to do – even though nobody sees it – just because that’s a J.K. Rowling thing in story does not mean that Picquery is wrong to behave the way that she does, so I don’t see anything wrong. But whether or not she’s a good leader, again, she does not listen to what Tina has to say first, and it results in the death of the senator, of Senator Shaw, because ultimately the Obscurus, which Newt probably could have identified sooner had he been on the case, is just not… she didn’t listen until it was too late, and he’s not brought in, and that’s all because Picquery did not take the time. She was just so… like you said, it’s because Tina caused a headache for the Ministry with the Barebone stuff, she was demoted, and Picquery does not give her the time of day anymore. The next time that we see her is actually during the International Confederation scene, and here, because the senator has been killed, she is willing to listen to Tina. And you’re right, I mean, she berates Tina again in front of the entire wizarding convention, but I think that’s also to show strength, sort of, because what kind of leader are you if you let just anybody walk through those doors in the middle of a meeting, right? So maybe that’s that. But she ultimately is… that’s when she’s listening to Tina, and that’s when she meets Newt and kind of understands what’s going on. So I don’t know, I think that she’s doing everything she can. The issue is that Grindelwald is on the loose, and she has to answer to this International Confederation, or she’s hosting this Confederation, because it’s very possible that all of America… No-Majes will learn the truth, and wizards will be exposed. So I think it’s just that a lot of this movie, a lot of her character in this movie, is put in the context of it’s really close to being an all-out war. It’s really close to being everything that they fear to happen in America is going to happen in America, and once it happens in America, it’s going to happen everywhere else in the world. That’s sort of just how these things work. I think it’s just that she’s really responsible and she’s focused on her job. She’s, I think, probably a good president.
Andrew: Yeah, I mean, which still raises the question of why she leaves. [laughs]
Eric: In ’28, yeah. Let’s just say two-term limits were a thing 20 years earlier.
Micah: I think that’s fair. Two-term limit; she’s run her course as president, unless we learn otherwise. I mean, we’re going to undoubtedly get the answer to that question, I would think, knowing that we have to go through 1928 to move forward, but I think that she’s flawed in her presidency much like other leaders are. Any leader is, quite honestly. Nobody leads perfectly, and I think we saw sort of the worst of leaders in Fudge when we were dealing with the Potter series, and I don’t think – somebody had tweeted earlier – that we know enough about her yet to make that comparison to say that she’s a worse leader than Fudge or Scrimgeour.
Eric: No.
Micah: We’ve only had one film with her, and I think there’s more to learn about her. I think with characters like hers, you don’t get to spend the time with them to learn all the different decisions that they have to make, all the different intricacies of what goes into what they’re dealing with. Like you have here in the notes, the first scene that we have with her is a, “Hey, we’re busy, leave us alone,” but she’s dealing with trying to track down Grindelwald, not realizing that he’s standing right next to her, of course.
[Eric laughs]
Micah: But that’s what she’s tasked with. She is tasked with protecting the wizarding world here in America, and via that, the larger wizarding community, because of what’s going on. And I think that gets a little bit lost, because here you have Tina walk in with somebody who supposedly has a suitcase full of beasts, some of which have now escaped into New York City…
Eric: Very irresponsible.
Micah: Right. Now, does that risk exposing them? Of course, but is it as big of an issue as Grindelwald being on the loose? Absolutely not. So I think… is she a little bit blind to other things that are going on around her? Yes, but I think that’s part of her character, and I think we need to give it a little bit more time. We need to get to know her a little bit more. Before we make decisions about her ability to rule and her ability to lead, let’s see what she’s actually able to do in terms of keeping Grindelwald imprisoned, and if she’s able to do more moving forward. I just think that it’s too early to make comparisons.
Eric: Yeah. I think it’s early enough to say she’s not as bad as Fudge, because when presented with the facts, Seraphina does the right thing. She doesn’t ignore what’s right in front of her, and that is Fudge’s biggest mistake, so I’ll say that much. But actually, we heard from Nada over on Patreon – I found some of these quotes – and Nada says, “I think as a woman in power, especially being a woman of color in the ’20s, maybe she can’t be emotional or people will see her as incompetent,” and I think that’s also very… again, to the International Confederation scene, she can’t show emotion; she can’t show too much consideration. She has to demand that Tina explain why she’s there. And really, the only other two scenes that she’s at in the movie… there’s a very interesting shot – this gets me every time – but when Credence is breaking everything in town and going across the town and Newt is following him on rooftop, there’s a weird shot of… it’s Seraphina and a couple Aurors, but it’s actually… the image is of a reflection. Basically it’s like a map of Manhattan, and it’s lighting up. Do you guys know what I’m talking about? Do you remember seeing this?
Andrew: Yes, I do. That was really cool.
Eric: Yeah, it’s the streets and it’s just a map of Manhattan, of Midtown, and it’s lighting up where all the destruction is occurring, or where the magic is occurring. It’s a really cool shot, but you don’t actually… you see her, but it’s only her facial… it’s like a reflection of her face looking at this map, and it’s two or three Aurors, and she says to them, “Contain this, otherwise it will mean war.” And it’s five seconds, blink and you’ll miss it, but that’s… or she says, actually, “This could mean exposure.” Wait, what does she say? Hang on, it just…
Andrew: Yeah, something like that. Risking exposure.
Eric: Yeah, yeah. Anyway, so she sends the Aurors to the train station where the climax of the film happens, but she’s ultimately… again, it’s clear as day, she’s just trying to prevent war. That’s it. And at the end of the film, she quickly understands that Graves is not necessarily who he seems to be in the conversation with Colin Farrell, and when Grindelwald is apprehended, and he says to her, “Do you really think you can hold me?”, she says, “We’ll do our best, Mr. Grindelwald.” And I think that is a very shining line, and I think that shows her inner calm and inner coolness, and her sort of resolve to succeed.
Andrew: It comes off as confidence to me. “We’ll do our best.” It’s sarcastic.
Eric: It’s like Harry’s “Let us hope that Mr. Potter will always be around and save the day,” and he says, “Don’t worry. I will be.” So let’s do tweets. [laughs]
Micah: We first heard from… [coughs] I don’t know what’s wrong with me.
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: You would think he’s crying. He was very moved by those final…
Micah: Yeah, I was very moved by those last few comments there.
Eric: [laughs] “Don’t worry, Mr. Grindelwald. We will be.”
Micah: All right, so Laura Downs asked the question – and we may have touched on this a little bit earlier – that Seraphina “had her pick of all four Ilvermorny Houses. Why did she choose Horned Serpent?”
Eric: Yeah, I don’t know.
Andrew: Yeah. Well, like I said at the beginning of the discussion, I think it’s just the coolest one.
Eric: [laughs] No, Thunderbird, my House, is the coolest one.
Andrew: But maybe we’ll learn more about Horned Serpent, or why she chose Horned Serpent, once we get some more time with her. Maybe if she does work with Newt, they can discuss that, or maybe if she’s friends with Tina. [laughs] Obviously they’re going to be… they both went to Ilvermorny, so maybe more explanation will come there. Or maybe this is something J.K. Rowling could answer. I feel like this is probably a safe J.K. Rowling tweet reveal.
Eric and Micah: Yeah.
Eric: It wouldn’t give too much away.
Micah: If she’s not being politically-motivated on Twitter…
Andrew: Right.
Micah: … for one day, for a few hours, maybe she could answer that question. Maggy also…
Andrew: Yeah, because…
Micah: Go ahead.
Andrew: Sorry, I just want to add, it probably isn’t relevant to the story, so it’ll probably never show up, so that’s why she could tweet about it safely.
Micah: But Maggy asked a question that would kind of tie in there, wanting to know more about Seraphina’s background. “How did she become the president? Her family? Ties to anybody that we know? And what is her role in defeating Grindelwald?” I would add, “if any.”
Eric: Yeah. Katy sent us – Katy, who was our guest last week – sent us a name origin thing, which I’ll read at the end, but it might hint at her purpose and her role in defeating Grindelwald.
Micah: Interesting. Well, speaking of Katy, she also said that Seraphina is “a heckin’ good dresser, but she was mean to Tina, Newt, Credence, and Jacob. 3/10. Would not forgive.”
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Micah: Right?
Eric: Yeah, I mean, I’d forgive her. She’s just doing her job. She’s not like Fudge.
Micah: April and Laura both weighed in on her being in the next Fantastic Beasts film. April said, “I would assume she is in the next movies if she/MACUSA lose Grindelwald. I cannot imagine she takes that well.” And Laura: “I really hope we do see her again. I really loved her character. Maybe she comes in as a special advisor to the head of the wizard government!”
Eric: That’d be cool. If she could be the UN ambassador as well, for the states, assuming whatever future president isn’t busy. Or is busy.
Micah: Clockworkboy talking a bit about her wand: “Maybe when Grindelwald escapes, she uses an Unforgivable Curse on him, since her wand takes to Dark Magic.”
Eric: I like the connecting threads of this, where we use these details to inform what might happen. I like that a lot.
Micah: And then Ken and Nolan, touching a little bit on what was brought up earlier in the discussion. Ken says, “I have to know her backstory! A woman and a woman of color no less as president in the 1920s? Who is this badass character?”
Eric: Yep.
Micah: And Nolan: “For such a backwards society in the 1920s, wizard and No-Maj, was interesting that their president was a woman, and a woman of color. Good for them.”
Eric: Yep. Let me see…
Micah: Also heard from Horned Serpent House.
Eric: [laughs] What?
Micah: Yeah, they’re on Twitter.
Andrew: Maybe they can explain why Seraphina joined that.
Eric: Ilvermorny Horned Serpent House is on Twitter?
Micah: Yes, and they are “proud of Madam President’s accomplishments. However, we do wish her more patience in pursuit of truth and security.”
Eric: [laughs] Ooh.
Andrew: Is this like a fansite for the Horned Serpent House? Because that would be the first. I don’t think there was ever like a Gryffindor…
Micah: Twitter handle?
Eric: Yeah, no, it’s Horned Serpent at Ilvermorny itself. And she let her House down by not being more patient in pursuit of truth and security. That’s rough. [laughs]
Micah: And finally we hear from Geeky Galpaz, which is in contrast to what we heard from Ginny and Eric. They say, “While she may have her flaws, she is a better leader than any of the British Ministers for Magic.”
Eric: There. Hear, hear!
Micah: I would say at least the ones that we know about, because there were obviously other Ministers for Magic that… I think that information is over on Pottermore as well, the history of the Ministry. But yeah, definitely Fudge; there’s no question there, at least in my mind. And then I’m sure that Scrimgeour can be debated, because he was with us for a very short period of time, and actually died in protection of Harry.
Eric: Serving… yeah.
Andrew: Getting back to Katy’s tweet from earlier for a moment, I just wanted to add that I think that’s kind of… she said, “She’s a good dresser, but she was mean to Tina, Newt, Credence, and Jacob. Would not forgive.” I think you tend to get a tough first impression when you meet somebody in that high power. I don’t think they’re necessarily supposed to be friendly and kind and give a warm welcome. [laughs]
Eric: Again, it’s perceived weakness.
Andrew: Right.
Eric: They would perceive her as weak, and the Darker forces would eat it up. They would absolutely run all over her.
Andrew: Yeah. So I think even if you don’t like her now, the core four – and we as a viewer – may warm up to her further. I’ve personally got no problem with her.
Eric: And Jacob… she’s not really mean to Jacob. She does demand that he get his memory wiped, but she doesn’t do it herself. She, at the end, has sort of come around to this idea of giving them a moment to say goodbye. She understands that these four humans have bonded during this film.
Micah: And also, though, I have a hard time believing that she would have been okay with what Graves/Grindelwald decided to do with both Newt and Tina.
Eric: Yes.
Micah: He claims that he’s going to deliver the news to her, but I don’t really know that…
Eric: He’s not.
Micah: Yeah, and there’s never any sort of follow-up to that. We don’t learn about the truth of that situation. It’s not like Seraphina is shocked to see Tina and Newt still alive when she runs into them in the subway station.
Eric: [laughs] Right.
Micah: So that leads me to believe that she was never given that information that that was going to happen.
Eric: No, and it would have tipped his hand. It would have shown… it would have revealed… because Graves would not have killed them so quickly. It’s clearly a quick attempt at cover-up from Grindelwald’s part, and pretending to be Graves, he sentences them to death, but he was never going to tell Seraphina, because… maybe she would have found out if the stuff weren’t hitting the fan that same day, but I think that ultimately, that’s just going to reveal that he’s not Graves, because Graves would not have done that. So there’s no way he told her. Yeah, so let’s just talk about name origins then. We’ll close on this, because Katy was asked by Michaela, who’s also a patron, to do more name analysis, and Katy saved us a lot of time and energy by providing it, so here is the Seraphina Picquery name origin story. Okay.
“Behind the name: Meaning, origin, and history of the name ‘Seraphina.’ It’s the feminine form of the late Latin name ‘Seraphinus,’ derived from the biblical word ‘seraphim,’ which was Hebrew in origin and meant ‘fiery ones.’ The seraphim were an order of angels described by Isaiah in the Bible as having six wings each. From late Latin, ‘Seraphina,’ name of obscure early martyrs, from biblical ‘seraphim.'”
Early martyrs; that means they died young. So Katy asks, “Is she going to die young as a martyr?” That bothers me. That was our theory, that Grindelwald is going to escape and kill her. It mights be in her name, guys, I’m sorry to report.
Andrew: [laughs] Disturbing. Disturbing warning.
Eric: “The highest-ranking angels, the six-winged seraphim inspired the lovely name ‘Seraphina,’ which was brought into the contemporary spotlight,” apparently, “when chosen by high profile parents Jennifer Garner and Ben Affleck for their second daughter.” So their second daughter is named Seraphina. That’s kind of cool.
Micah: Who cares?
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: What does that do with anything?
Eric: Well, I question…
Micah: Strike that from the record. Delete that out of the show. Only patrons hear that.
Eric: Only patrons hear Ben Affleck and…
Micah: I mean, come on. What is that garbage? Who cares?
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Hey, look, Katy just did us a solid here by including every relevant…
Micah: No, she did an amazing job up until that line. That has nothing to do with her name.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: All right, here’s “Picquery.” Here’s the last name; here’s what that means.
“Picquery seems to be French in origin, most people having that last name being from the area around Paris, but it’s also a common Creole name, which is French in Louisiana area. Since most North American Creoles, especially those having strong roots in the French-speaking parts of Louisiana and parts of the Deep South, where there was a strong French influence, it can be presumed that their offsprings would have French surnames. ‘Picquery’ shows up here under the list of common names of free people of color, and Savannah, Georgia, where Seraphina is from, is definitely part of the Deep South. Picquery is also a type of pear.”
Andrew: [laughs] I’ve heard rumors that pears are going to have a big role in Fantastic Beasts 2…
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: … so I think we are going to see…
Micah: Grindelwald is going to choke on a pear.
Andrew: “Fantastic Pears and Where to Pluck Them.”
Eric: “Medium to large size…” They taste sort of like apples, but not really. “Medium to large size, roundish, pyriform pale, yellow with some russet flesh…”
Andrew: All right, all right, off track.
Eric: Okay, okay. [laughs] Thank you, Katy. Yeah.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Okay, two more things here, tangential. “In the second half of the 20th century or early 21st century, Rita Skeeter wrote in her Newt Scamander biography, titled ‘Man or Monster? The Truth About Newt Scamander,’ that Newt left Madam Picquery with a broken heart in 1926, something he later clarified was not true.” So it’s funny that Rita Skeeter shipped Newt and Seraphina. And at some point on Pottermore, it was mentioned that present day Lucas Picquery was an American – hello – Quidditch player in 2014. So it’s possible, just like we saw Anthony Goldstein is an indirect descendant of the Goldstein sisters from Fantastic Beasts, it would follow that Lucas Picquery, this Quidditch player in 2014, is also somehow descended from Seraphina.
Micah: Related.
Eric: Yeah, absolutely. 100%.
Micah: And don’t forget… was it Quentin Kowalski?
Eric: Oh, and Quentin Kowalski. Yeah, you’re right.
Micah: Another Quidditch player. They just… everybody from Fantastic Beasts, Eric, clearly just breeds Quidditch players several generations later. That’s what I’m learning from this conversation.
Andrew: I feel like there might be something to that Seraphina/Newt thing. Maybe it’s not as accurate as Rita is making it out to be, but I think there’s something there.
Micah: I think we talked a little bit about something along those lines on a previous episode, in that Rita… you go back to The Life and Lies of Albus Dumbledore. Even though a lot of what she included in that book was not true…
Andrew: 100%% accurate, yeah.
Micah: … 100% accurate, there were truths sort of below the surface in terms of what she was saying.
Andrew: Exactly.
Micah: So I wouldn’t just pass off things that she’s writing about as just being gossip. I agree with you; I think there’s probably a little bit more to it.
Andrew: Yeah, but… hmm. I don’t think it’s coming from Newt. I would assume it’s coming from Seraphina, if there are feelings. But it seems way… that was obviously not on display in the movie at all.
Eric: No, I just think what it is is it’s magical talent recognizing magical talent.
Andrew: Maybe, yeah.
Eric: Newt has a very distinct, different type of magical talent, and honestly, he does the government a solid. Here’s the thing about that, is she – again, as a politician – goes up to Newt and has to thank him on behalf of everyone in America, thousands of wizards, and has to say, “Thank you, you saved us, and we were wrong.” Complete awesomeness, but it ultimately is a professional sort of respect. I don’t think it’s romantic at all. But it’s professional respect.
Micah: And maybe it’s sort of a little bit of a tip of a cap to their working relationship moving forward. Maybe they do grow close in the sense that they have to join together in this fight against Grindelwald, and Rita is just naturally making more out of the situation than is truly there.
Andrew: By the way, so wrapping up this discussion, we got a lot of good Tina feedback last week, and some people said that their feelings on Tina had changed, like our own feelings did.
Eric: Yay!
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Mission accomplished.
Andrew: Yeah, yeah. Even though we didn’t even set out to accomplish that to begin with, so good stuff. If you have any feedback about this week’s discussion, please email MuggleCast@gmail.com. You can also tweet us: Twitter.com/MuggleCast.
First Time Experiencing Harry Potter Stories
Andrew: We have some more first time experiencing Harry Potter stories. We asked for these a while ago on Patreon. This is from Kaye.
“While I definitely read the books when I was much younger, my first actual memory is when Goblet of Fire came out. I was pretty devastated because I was going to be on a family vacation, so I wouldn’t be able to go to my local Borders for the midnight release. The day after the release, my mom went to the grocery store and I begged her to see if they had it. When she came back, my dad told me that the store didn’t have it in stock. But lo and behold, when I came downstairs, I immediately spotted my mom holding the book up, pretending to read it. I screamed and ran down the stairs. I’m pretty sure that’s one of the happiest moments of my childhood.”
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Andrew: Good trick, Mom and Dad.
[Eric laughs]
Micah: Yeah, I was going to say, Dad’s a prankster.
Andrew: [laughs] Hayden says,
“I was 9 and I had just watched Sorcerer’s Stone in the theaters. My dad decided to read my brother and I Chamber of Secrets, and we got about two chapters in when I decided my dad read too slow, so I stole the book and finished it in about two days, and my love of all things Harry Potter grew from there. (I later went back and read the first book.)”
Eric: Aw.
Andrew: Yeah. And finally, Rinwen says,
“When the first book came out, my mother picked it up. She wanted to read it to my little sister and I. However, she is not one for fantasy and got bored of it herself and stopped reading. Yet my sister and I were keen to hear more, and she was too young at that point to read a novel. So being the good big sister I was, we sat up all night and I read it aloud and gave voices to each character.”
Eric: Ah!
Andrew: That’s cool. “As she is older and just got married last year, it’s nice to look back and think of these sisterly bonding moments we shared over something that has ended up meaning so much to me.” Isn’t that nice?
Eric: That’s the nicest story I’ve ever heard.
Micah: Cool story.
Andrew and Eric: Yeah.
Andrew: So like I mentioned, I’m home at my childhood home through the summer.
Eric: Welcome home.
Andrew: Oh, thank you. It’s good to be back?
Eric: No place like home.
Andrew: [laughs] So of course, I have my original Harry Potter books here. I don’t really move them around. They’re safest here, not moving.
Eric: As MuggleCasters, I want to assure the listeners we all have ten copies of every Harry Potter book. [laughs]
Andrew: Yeah, there’s like four copies of Half-Blood Prince in this house, and my parents are moving next year, so I’m like, “We need to get rid of these; we don’t need so many copies of Half-Blood Prince.”
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: But now I’m like, “Oh, crap, which one is my original copy?” Because the one sitting on the…
Micah: The one with your tears, Andrew.
Andrew: [laughs] Yeah, I’ll have to go through and…
Eric: “Dumbledore!” [weeps]
Andrew: Yeah. So anyway, so funnily enough, in two of the books… so the first book was read to me in fourth grade by my fourth grade teacher.
Eric: Awesome.
Andrew: But then the second one – I’ve told this story before – I went out to Borders, and lo and behold, there it was right at the front of the shop, because it had just come out. Turns out I wrote the dates in Book 2 and Book 3 of when I started reading and when I finished reading.
Eric: Oh, that’s such a cool…
Andrew: Yeah, isn’t that cool?
Eric: That’s such a good practice. Everyone should teach their kids to do that. That’s amazing.
Andrew: Yeah, I wonder if my parents made me do it or what. But so I’m holding my copy of Chamber of Secrets. I started it June 4, 1999 and finished July 5, 1999, so that one took me a month. I was very busy as a 10-year-old.
Eric: Clearly. [laughs]
Andrew: The next one I read a little faster: September 8, 1999 to September 29, 1999.
Eric: Oooh.
Andrew: And funnily enough, my dad defaced my book.
Eric: [laughs] What?
Andrew: I opened this up to look at the date, and below the date it says in pencil, “To Andrew, something, J.K. Rowling.”
[Micah laughs]
Andrew: He pretended J.K. Rowling signed it or something, and it looks like his handwriting.
Eric: That’s not defacing your book. [laughs]
Andrew: I know.
Micah: Just erase it if it’s in pencil.
Eric: Yeah, if it’s in pencil, just erase it.
Andrew: I think it is. I don’t have a pencil right here, but I’m just realizing this. I don’t know how I hadn’t seen that. Now I’m a little…
Eric: Your dad pretended to be J.K. Rowling and signed your book?
Andrew: I guess?
Eric: Oh, I love it.
Andrew: I remember this one coming in on Amazon via… oh, no, was it…? I think this one I got via Amazon. They were promising the day of release, because that was before midnight release parties were a thing. Anyway.
Micah: I will say, though, that one thing you could do is donate those extra copies of Half-Blood.
Andrew: Yeah, that would be a nice thing to do.
Micah: Yeah. I mean, it’s up to you. And it’s funny, because this has nothing to do with donating books, but I was actually reading a book that was recently released by David Baldacci called The Fix, and Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban plays an integral role in that book.
[Andrew gasps]
Eric: What?
Micah: Or I should say in the story, in how the story plays itself out. I don’t want to give anything away…
Andrew: No spoiling.
Eric: You’ve got to spoil me, Micah. I’m going to call you.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: All right, well, you can call me, but I just… and it’s always interesting when you read other authors, how a lot of times there’s these brief mentions of Potter that are sort of woven into their works, and I don’t think it’s the first time Baldacci has used it. And for those of you wondering, he generally writes political thrillers, criminal thrillers, those sorts of things. So if you’re interested, give it a read.
Eric: The Fix
Andrew: That’s pretty cool.
Eric: Yeah, that sounds great.
Andrew: So that does it for this week’s episode of MuggleCast. What character are we talking about next episode?
Eric: Well, we have a choice. We can do Credence, we can do Graves/Grindelwald, or we could do the Barebones clan.
Andrew: I would say Graves. I think that’s a good one after Seraphina, since they work together.
Eric: Yeah. Oh, wait, that reminds me, they have a Blu-ray special together.
Andrew: Oooh.
Eric: It’s “The President and the Auror,” is what it’s called.
Andrew: [laughs] Okay.
Eric: Really next to nothing in there as far as quotes, but J.K. Rowling does reveal that in the very first notebook she had on Harry Potter, she had the name “Picquery” written down as being a witchy thing, and she says, “It’s taken me all this time to use it.”
Andrew: By the way, on Patreon for our Slug Club members, we released our May giveaway. We’re giving away something each month. This one is very close to my heart; we are giving away two copies of the hit film The Holiday.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: So Slug Club members can enter by writing in their favorite character. We have 21 submissions so far. I offered people a list of characters in case they didn’t know the movie, so that contest is now underway through May 27. [laughs]
Eric: I want a copy. Can we rig the contest so I get a copy? I need to own this movie.
Andrew: Just go to the Walmart bargain bin and buy a copy for a few dollars. [laughs]
Eric: Oh, okay. All right.
Andrew: Thanks, everybody, for listening. Don’t forget our voicemail line. It is… Eric, do you remember it?
Eric: 920-3-MUGGLE.
Andrew: Great, because I didn’t remember it.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Andrew: I do know the PO box, though.
Eric: Oh.
Andrew: 404 North Lincoln Avenue…
Eric: No, wait, stop, stop. You did it wrong.
Andrew: Uh-oh.
Eric: 4044.
Andrew: What did I say?
Eric: 404. I heard 404. I don’t know if you said 404.
Andrew: 4044 North Lincoln. Box #144, Chicago, IL, 60618.
Eric: Truth.
Andrew: Micah, anything you got committed to memory you want to tell us?
Micah: You can also tweet at us at MuggleCast.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: I already said that one.
Micah: You did? Okay, well…
Andrew: A few minutes ago, but it’s okay.
Micah: Yeah, well, you know. Every few minutes remind them.
[Andrew and Micah laugh]
Andrew: Thanks, everybody, for listening. We’ll see you next week. I’m Andrew.
Eric: I’m Eric.
Micah: And I’m Micah.
Andrew: Goodbye.
Eric: Bye.