Transcript for MuggleCast Episode #408, Ron Is Relevant? (HBP 19, Elf Tales)
Show Intro
[Show music plays]
Andrew Sims: Welcome to MuggleCast 408. I’m Andrew.
Eric Scull: I’m Eric.
Micah Tannenbaum: I’m Micah.
Laura Tee: And I’m Laura.
Andrew: How’s everybody doing this week?
Laura: Great.
Eric: Good.
Micah: Great.
Andrew: Nice. There’s not much news to talk about, so I’m asking how…
Micah: Went to the gym this morning.
Andrew: Oh, yeah.
Micah: I’m amped up. I’m ready to go, Andrew. Had some coffee.
Andrew: Good for you, fitting in working out before MuggleCast. Micah texted me, [in a deep voice] “I’m amped. I’m ready to go. Let’s do this. Let’s MuggleCast.”
[Everyone laughs]
Micah: That’s actually exactly how I sounded, too.
Andrew: We are going to continue with Chapter by Chapter this week, and we are also going to listen to some voicemails. We haven’t done that in a while. We have a hodgepodge of a Chapter by Chapter, I would say; there’s just all kinds of things going on in this chapter. This chapter has everything.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: So we’ll discuss all of that. We do have an announcement: Next week’s episode of MuggleCast will be our Crimes of Grindelwald commentary! We’re actually going to be recording it the day after we record this episode; we’ll be streaming it live on Patreon, and everybody will be able to listen to it when it is released in mid-March. Crimes of Grindelwald just came out on Tuesday, March 12, so if you haven’t bought it by now, you definitely should, and that’s why we’re recording the commentary now, because it was just released for our home entertainment consumption. I’m looking forward to talking about it with y’all, because there’s a lot to talk about.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Eric: Yeah, for sure.
News
Andrew: There is a very small piece of news; this is more of a heads up. Universal Orlando is going to release more information about Hagrid’s… let’s see. Can I remember the name? Hagrid’s Magical Creatures Motorbike Adventure?
Eric: Think you forgot about six words, Andrew.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: That’s it: Hagrid’s Magical Creatures Motorbike Adventure. They are going to release new information on Tuesday. Since we are going to release our commentary next week, we won’t be talking about whatever they reveal until the week after the commentary. But Micah, I understand you’re going to a special event that might have information about this. Lucky you!
Micah: Yeah, I just might be going to an event that has special information about this. Wink-wink.
Andrew: For some reason this event is happening in New York. I can’t figure out why they would do an event in New York for it. [laughs]
Micah: Yeah, but…
Laura: Well, it’s because they want Micah.
Micah: There you go.
Andrew: Ah. Well, from what I understand, Micah is not even going for MuggleCast, so I have lots of problems with this.
[Laura laughs]
Micah: MuggleCast didn’t offer.
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: MuggleCast wasn’t invited, so MuggleCast couldn’t offer.
Micah: Oh, well, there you go.
Andrew: Oh well.
Micah: But hopefully more information to come. Obviously, they’re going to release whatever that information is on Tuesday, but I’ll be able to talk more about the event, probably, like you mentioned, not on the next episode, but on the following one. Let you know how things were.
Andrew: You should tell everybody about MuggleCast while you’re there, so that we get invited next time there’s an event.
Micah: I’m just going to hand out stickers.
Andrew: [laughs] Perfect. I’m going to be in Orlando next week; not going to Universal, though. If I was, I would definitely try to climb that fence and check out the construction.
Eric: That’s going to be awesome.
Listener Feedback
Andrew: Anyway, time for Muggle Mail now. Eric, do you want to read the first one?
Eric: Sure.
“Hi, MuggleCasters. Yana from Bulgaria. I came across the fact that ‘Goldstein’ is a Jewish name, and it got me thinking how Queenie and Tina will be affected by the upcoming Second World War. Now, I know they are witches and all, and they can protect themselves, but I just can’t ignore how brutal life was for Jewish families during that time. Might be of no relevance, but just thought I would share my thoughts. Love you, keep up the amazing work.”
Yes, and that’s confirmed by J.K. Rowling as well, that Tina and Queenie… and I think she actually singled out Michael Goldstein, who is a loose descendant, as being a Jewish student at Hogwarts. Somebody on Twitter years ago asked J.K. Rowling if there are any Jews at Hogwarts, and she said, “Michael Goldstein.”
Micah: I think it’s Anthony, isn’t it?
Eric: Oh, Anthony, yes.
Micah: You’re thinking of Michael Goldberg.
Eric: Am I?
Micah: I don’t know.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: Oh, okay. Anthony Goldstein.
Micah: Didn’t he write one of the screenplays? Didn’t he do Order of the Phoenix?
Andrew: I want to say Goblet of Fire.
Micah: Anyway, I don’t think it’s of no relevance. I think this is a good point that Yana brings up, and I think we will see it probably play itself out in the upcoming films, because we know that they’re likely going to be in Europe. And I mean, just the comparisons we’ve talked about a lot on the show of Grindelwald and Nurmengard. Even though it looked really nice at the end of the last film…
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Micah: … probably has parts of it that are comparable to concentration camps, or we’ll see that transformation take place. We know that it becomes a prison later on, and it’s actually where he’s held when we see him in Deathly Hallows.
Andrew: I have a hard time imagining it being mentioned more than within newspaper headlines. Like, you’ll see them reading the paper, reading about the war, and they have a really concerned look on their faces. I just don’t think there’s going to be time for that, for anything more.
Laura: I think it depends… I mean, there very well could be some connections drawn to the Muggle world in terms of what’s going on with World War II. I don’t think that Grindelwald’s whole thing at the end of the second movie, where he showed what was going to happen in World War II, was an accident. I think that there are going to be a number of parallels drawn between that and what’s happening in the wizarding world. So it may not be a big story arc where Queenie and Tina are discriminated against by Muggles for being Jewish, but I think it’ll definitely at least come up once.
Micah: Agreed.
Andrew: By the way, Margaret is listening live from Australia right now, and she says, “Waiting for the show with my vodka and popcorn.”
Micah: Oh.
Andrew: Wow.
Micah: That’s a combo. I don’t think I’ve heard of that before.
Laura: Girl, it sounds like you’re living your best life.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: I think we need to party it up in here to get on her level. [laughs]
Eric: [in an Australian accent] Break out the Vegemite.
Andrew: Let me pour some vodka in my coffee.
Laura: It is 10:15 in the morning.
Andrew: Yeah, well, she’s in Australia.
[Laura laughs]
Micah: We could do Irish coffees, Laura.
Andrew: There you go.
Laura: Oooh, that actually sounds real good.
Micah: Get myself ready for a trip.
Eric: This next email comes from Brianne, who’s… oh, I thought she said she was 13 years old, so I’m like, “Okay, right off this alcohol talk, we’re going to talk about 13 years…”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: No, she’s been listening for 13 years. Okay, so she said… [laughs] It’s much better.
“Hi guys! I have been re-reading the series (after getting jealous of my husband for doing his first reading). I found the following passage at the beginning of Chapter 18 of Order of the Phoenix, page 374 in my US edition.
‘Harry pointed his wand at the bullfrog that had been hopping hopefully toward the other side of the table – ‘Accio!’ – and it zoomed gloomily back into his hand.’
It turns out it IS canon to Accio a living creature. My guess is Jo said that it wasn’t possible as a response to a ‘Why can’t they just use Accio?’ question. I’m not sure of the exact time/place that she made that statement, though. Here’s hoping Fantastic Beasts 3 will resolve a few more of our concerns. Would love to hear your thoughts! Brianne from Chicago. PS: Welcome back, Laura!”
Laura: Aww. Thanks, Brianne.
Eric: This was a good find.
Andrew: Yeah, I hadn’t seen this one mentioned, so that’s important to consider.
Micah: Right.
Andrew: I think J.K. Rowling just needs to get her story straight on the situation. That’s all.
Eric: [laughs] And Pottermore, too. They keep changing the answer.
Andrew: Yeah, that’s all I want. Just stick with one answer. And by the way, we’re going to listen to a voicemail later in the show that touches on Accio and how Newt may have been able to Accio a Niffler. It doesn’t really add to this point, but the voicemail is about Newt possibly being in Animagus, and the theories are good.
Micah: And just a quick update, I did check; Michael Goldenberg did screenwrite Order of the Phoenix.
Andrew: My apologies. Thank you. Like J.K. Rowling, I can’t keep everything straight.
Micah: But even I got it wrong. I called him Michael Goldberg.
Andrew: You did.
Micah: Michael Goldenberg. Anyway.
Andrew: That was the movie that Steve Kloves… that was the only movie he didn’t write.
Eric: Right.
Andrew: Steve Kloves just needed a break, I guess. [laughs]
Eric: Yeah. It’s also a really good movie. I love the adaptation of Order of the Phoenix, but not everybody does. Final email from Kathy Stephenson:
“Hi, MuggleCast. Do you think the other Deathly Hallows, the Invisibility Cloak or stone, will make an appearance in one of the upcoming Fantastic Beasts films? I wouldn’t have thought so, but because Nagini is now part of the story, maybe we’ll get a reference to one of them. Oh, and when you talk about the perks of supporting you on Patreon, mention the livestream version of the show; I love it! Thanks for all of your hard work.”
Andrew: Hey guys, we got a livestream!
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: Yeah, people really like it because they can listen to the show live and interact with us. If you tell us that you’re drinking vodka and eating popcorn, we read that on air.
Micah: And support you wholeheartedly. [laughs]
Andrew: So I do think we are going to probably see the other Deathly Hallows. For one, we saw the stone in Crimes of Grindelwald. It was very brief.
Eric: Did we?
Andrew: Yeah!
Eric: Where?
Andrew: It was in Nicolas Flamel’s vault.
Eric: Wait, what?
Laura: Oh, no, she was talking about the Resurrection Stone.
Andrew: Oh, right, right, right. Of course. Cut that out. I look like an idiot.
Laura: No, it’s fine. It’s okay, Andrew. We’re all wrong sometimes.
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: I think that this is a safe bet, though, to say that we will at least get some sort of reference to the Deathly Hallows, given the fact that Grindelwald was pretty obsessed with them.
Eric: And has the Elder Wand, or will.
Laura: Right.
Andrew: And in the promotional material, I think, for the first movie, they were just straight up throwing that Deathly… oh, and in the second movie. They were throwing that Deathly Hallows symbol all over the place.
Eric: That’s right!
Andrew: So probably building up to something there. And – and we’ll discuss this when we are watching the movie together tomorrow – in one of the desks that Leta looks at in Hogwarts, there is a Deathly Hallows inscribed on the underside.
Micah: Those transfer students.
[Everyone laughs]
Micah: No, but I wonder right now… we obviously know where the wand is, but who would even have the Invisibility Cloak or the Resurrection Stone? I mean, if we adjust the timeline a little bit – I mean, even with what we’ve been talking about in Half-Blood Prince – isn’t the stone with the Gaunts?
Eric: Yeah, Marvolo Gaunt has it. And the cloak is with James Potter’s father, presuming the tradition to hand down cloak from father to son is what happens consistently through that bloodline.
Andrew: You would think so.
Micah: So there is a chance we see the Gaunts, if there is this side mission of Grindelwald to acquire the Deathly Hallows.
Eric: Maybe.
Micah: But I don’t know. To me, that gets even more confusing.
Andrew: We will see.
Eric: I’d like to take a moment now to tell our MuggleCast listeners about a sponsor this week, A Discovery of Witches, a Sundance Now and Shudder original series. Adapted from Deborah Harkness’s best-selling All Souls trilogy, A Discovery of Witches is a modern day love story set in a world where witches, vampires, and demons secretly live and work alongside humans hidden in plain sight. Starring Teresa Palmer of Hacksaw Ridge and Matthew Goode of Downton Abbey and The Crown, Season 1 launched exclusively on Shudder and Sundance Now on January 17 this year. Seasons 2 and 3 have already been greenlit. I am halfway through my binge-watching of the first season of A Discovery of Witches, and I’ve got to say, I’m enjoying it immensely. The series has an inescapable focus on alchemy, which I find interesting the more I research and the more we talk about Harry Potter, Fantastic Beasts, and the Crimes of Grindelwald. The chemistry between the leads is palpable, and the supporting characters are interesting as well. Again, this is a show about witches; it’s a perfect fit for MuggleCast listeners. And the thing is, you can watch A Discovery of Witches on both Sundance Now and Shudder online streaming services. Let me tell you about each of them.
[Ad break]
Chapter by Chapter: Seven-Word Summary
Andrew: It’s time now for Chapter by Chapter. This week, we are discussing Half-Blood Prince Chapter 19, “Elf Tales.” Let’s start, as always, with our Seven-Word Summary, and Eric, you will kick us off.
Eric: Oh, gosh. [laughs] I wasn’t prepared for this.
Micah: That’s the point.
Laura: It’s always worst being the first or the last person, and I’m the last person this week, so I’m not looking forward to it. [laughs]
Andrew: I’m nervous being the second person because I have to react to whatever Eric starts with.
Eric: Okay…
Micah: And I only go once, so I’m sitting pretty.
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: And you’re pumped up! You should have the most contributions.
Micah: And I’m right in the middle, so I can just screw the whole thing up.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: All right, here we go. [laughs] Quidditch…
Andrew: … takes…
Laura: Andrew. [laughs]
Andrew: What?
Laura: What am I supposed to do with that? Quidditch takes… a…
Andrew: What was I supposed to do with “Quidditch”?
Eric: [laughs] This game has just turned into blaming each other for how bad it is.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: It’s tearing us apart.
Micah: … backseat…
Laura: Okay, all right.
Andrew: Changing the subject.
Eric: … to… love those linking words.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: … Draco’s…
Laura: … activities.
Andrew: Okay, that works.
Micah: Well done.
Laura: We did it!
Eric: We completed a sentence! Hurray!
[Everyone laughs]
Chapter by Chapter: Main Discussion
Andrew: Micah, do you want to start us off?
Micah: Sure. So as you mentioned, the name of the chapter is “Elf Tales,” which I’m not really sure why, but…
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Laura: Right? I know; I was thinking that when I was reading it. I was like, “Wait. Nothing… there’s no elves till the end.”
Eric: It’s kind of punny, though, because “tales” and “tails” is a thing. They’re assigned to tail Draco Malfoy. But it’s not spelled that way; it’s spelled as though they’re telling a tale, which they also don’t do.
Micah: They don’t.
Andrew: Well, good thing we rename the chapter. That’s what we’re here for.
[Eric laughs]
Micah: So you’re saying that it’s because they’re going to be tailing Draco?
Eric: That’s what I’m thinking.
Micah: Ohh.
Eric: Yeah, they’re two solid elf tails that they… because to assign somebody to follow somebody is to make them a tail.
Andrew: Right.
Micah: That actually makes sense.
Eric: Right? But again, it’s very last-couple-paragraphs-of-the-chapter kind of thing, and this is a massive chapter.
Micah: So I’m actually going to, Eric, let you start things off, because you said that two really important conversations are happening or have happened off-page.
Eric: Yeah, if you remember the end of last chapter, Ron Weasley got poisoned, was sent to the hospital wing, it was unclear whether or not he would live or die… kind of an ominous place to leave. And at the beginning of the chapter, we do go straight into the action as far as they’re in the hospital wing; a couple of friends and family are gathered over Ron. But it’s mentioned that Harry has already spoken to Dumbledore, and I’m actually a little bit upset because I think that that conversation… Dumbledore as Headmaster presides over all injuries, all student matters, and clearly there would have been… if we had seen the conversation where Harry said, “Sir, Ron has just fainted; here’s what happened,” and then Dumbledore had to then interview Slughorn about it, we would have, I think, gotten a lot of insight into how Dumbledore feels in general about this latest development, because this isn’t just one; this is now two of his students that he’s sort of allowed to be injured, and I would have just loved to have seen the specific questions that he asked Harry.
Andrew: And we do know he’s frustrated because of what Hagrid says later about the conversation with Snape.
Eric: Right. Yeah, so it’s just…
Andrew: And what’s other…?
Eric: Yeah, yeah, so we’re just deprived of what could have been some very telling conversations. And the other one is the conversation that he’s currently having. So as the chapter starts, he’s in with Molly and Arthur Weasley, and again, I wonder what that conversation would be like. “Sorry, Molly and Arthur, I have a policy of allowing students to be nearly killed by Draco while I let him continue to try and fail to kill me.” What exactly is he saying that’s going to ease their sorrow or suffering or concerns? Their son is touch-and-go a few doors over. So I just…
Andrew: I would argue the Weasleys just know that this is life in the wizarding world.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: They know that crap like this happens. They’re just conditioned to it at this point. So I’m sure they’re upset that it happened to Ron, but they also know it’s just part of being a witch or wizard.
Micah: It’s also another parallel to Chamber of Secrets because, of course, Ginny ends up in danger, and now Ron.
Eric: Oh, man. Yeah.
Micah: There’s quite a few ties to Chamber of Secrets; we’ll talk about those in a little bit. But the chapter starts off with, as you mentioned, Eric, a number of people huddled around Ron in the hospital wing, and Fred and George are there and they get this conversation going about who could the poisoned mead have been intended for? Was it Slughorn? Was it Harry? Was it Dumbledore? And I thought it raised an interesting question about Slughorn in particular, because we don’t really look at him in this light at all throughout most of the early part of this book. But could he have been a Death Eater? Or was he just a target, or sort of a tool that Draco is using, in this case, to try and get to Dumbledore? I think the Death Eater part of it’s very interesting, because if you look back at the history of these teachers that have shown up randomly in each of these books, normally it’s to take over Defense Against the Dark Arts, but Slughorn is former Head of Slytherin House. He’s Potions Master. Why not the chance that Dumbledore could have misread this whole situation?
Andrew: Well, that’s the million dollar question: Would Dumbledore have misread the situation? That would be a major fault on his part. So I don’t think I was considering that when I was reading this for the first time.
Laura: Yeah. What I also like, too, is I feel like Slughorn is sort of, as a character, representative of a shift in terms of Slytherin representation. Up until this point in the series, we’re conditioned to believe all Slytherins are just bad. They’re just bad; they’re bad people. And then we meet Slughorn, and he has this level of… or he’s very eccentric, right? And he definitely uses people, he collects people like prizes, but he never comes off as an inherently evil person. And it’s interesting because, of course, later down the road – like of course, in Cursed Child and then in Fantastic Beasts – we see representations of Slytherin characters who are just normal people. So I kind of like his placement at this point in the series. He’s a bit of a question mark.
Eric: I do like how, Micah, you pointed out most of the people Dumbledore brings into the school don’t have Hogwarts’s best interests in mind, though. Historically, that has not been the case. Quirrell, Umbridge… Lockhart, even. They’re in it for themselves. Mad-Eye Moody was obviously not even Mad-Eye Moody. So I think it’s fair to ask if Slughorn was really a bad guy. But knowing his shock at the poisoning, the instance of the poisoning in the last chapter, kind of makes my mind when I’m reading this go, “Nope, that can’t be a thing.” Because he’s genuinely surprised that something happened with Ron.
Micah: Right, but Hermione makes a very interesting point that if the person who was responsible for this attack knew anything at all about Slughorn, and Dumbledore was, in fact, the target, or even Harry was the target, they would have known that Slughorn would have kept something like this for himself.
Andrew and Eric: Right.
Micah: Just because of, as you say, he enjoys these types of things.
Andrew: Her exact line was, “Then the poisoner didn’t know Slughorn very well,” and that, to me, was a big clue about Draco, because Draco has not been thinking anything through.
Micah: Yeah, totally.
Laura: Well, I think it’s just representative of yet another halfhearted attempt.
Micah: Exactly, and that just raises larger questions about what Dumbledore is allowing to go on, or even later in the chapter, when we learn about the conversation with Snape, what Snape is allowing to go on. Clearly, Dumbledore is pissed at Snape that he’s not doing a better job of keeping tabs on Draco and helping him accomplish his task without potentially killing other students at the school. So talking about Slughorn being a potential target, I also wanted to raise the fact that if Slughorn – and this is also brought up by members of the Weasley family – is wanted by Voldemort for whatever reason… we know that he’s a valuable commodity. We also know something that they don’t, which is that he’s also the key to defeating Voldemort. And of course, Voldemort would be aware of that. Is it really smart of him, Dumbledore, to bring this man into Hogwarts and keep him there, knowing that he could be a potential target?
Eric: Well, there’s no safer place than Hogwarts.
Andrew: There’s no safer…
Laura: Kind of.
Micah: Clearly.
Andrew: And is he really a target? I mean, Ginny brings up this point, and as a reader, I thought this one made the most sense because, like what you’re saying, we know that Tom and Slughorn had these very important discussions about Horcruxes, and you can completely imagine why Voldemort wouldn’t want Slughorn sharing more of this information. He must be up at night. Does Voldemort sleep? He must be up at night wondering if Slughorn is sharing what he once told young Tom.
Eric: Well, isn’t that why in the chapter called “Horace Slughorn” at the beginning of this book, when Harry and Dumbledore go to find him, that he’s in hiding? Is because the Death Eaters are trying to recruit him? And by recruit him, I always assumed it just meant they’re just trying to get him so they can kill him. Voldemort himself would not really allow Slughorn to live, I don’t think, if he found him, but Slughorn specifically says that the Dark wizards have been tailing him. More tails, everybody.
Micah: Doesn’t that compromise the safety of Hogwarts, though?
Eric: Well, see, Hogwarts is the big… is the vault that they can’t get into. So I think that’s Dumbledore’s thought process too. Like, “I have to have this man where I can watch him. He may have dubious morals, but at least then the rabble, the everyday people who are trying to get at him, won’t be able to.” And Voldemort, even if he wanted to kill Slughorn, would not necessarily mount a full-on offensive to where Slughorn is located, if Slughorn is at Hogwarts, to go get him.
Micah: That’s fair. And really, the detective work continues on the part of everybody that’s huddled around Ron. Hermione says, kind of going to that point that we raised earlier, “‘Well, for one thing, they both ought to have been fatal,'” talking about the attacks, “‘and weren’t, although that was pure luck. And for another, neither the poison nor the necklace seems to have reached the person who was supposed to be killed. Of course,’ she added broodingly, ‘that makes the person behind this even more dangerous in a way, because they don’t seem to care how many people they finish off before they actually reach their victim.'”
Eric: Yep.
Micah: I don’t know that that last part is necessarily true. I go to what Laura said about it being kind of halfhearted and not really well thought through.
Eric: But yeah, that’s a person who’s dangerous. I mean, if you put a bomb that’s just going to… a dirty bomb that could go off at any time, kill any amount of people that you want, that’s much more dangerous than a specific, targeted attack, because the x-factors.
Micah: But I don’t think that there’s an intention to hurt anybody else.
Eric: I don’t know. I just think Dumbledore is equally reckless for allowing this sort of thing to go at Hogwarts if he has any suspicion who is behind it, so it’s kind of weird that we have to all like Dumbledore at this moment.
Micah: Well, do we?
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Eh, I don’t know.
Laura: Yeah, the more that I learn about Dumbledore, and the more that I go back and read the series, the less I like him.
Andrew: Aww.
Laura: As a person. As a character, he’s fantastic, because he’s multifaceted and really pushes the plot forward, and I love that. But as a person, he’s kind of a manipulative son of a [censored].
Andrew: We have a voicemail later, and that person will…
[Laura laughs]
Micah: That addresses that topic?
Andrew: They’ll defend Dumbledore, because they’ve been noticing we’ve been hard on him.
Micah: Oooh.
Laura: All right, I’m open.
Micah: So Molly and Arthur show up and they thank Harry for saving yet another member of their family.
[Eric laughs]
Micah: Obviously, he saved Ginny, he saved Arthur, and now he’s saved Ron.
Andrew: He funded Fred and George’s business. He’s made Ron relevant at Hogwarts.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: Harry is so important to the Weasley family, and I’m glad Molly realizes it. I’m glad she has that sweet line about, “He was very lucky the day he stepped into that train compartment and found you.”
Laura: Yeah, too bad he couldn’t save Fred.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Doesn’t she have that backwards? Didn’t Harry step into the train…?
Andrew: Well, I’m paraphrasing. I may have…
Eric: No, no, you’re right, but in the book she says it backwards.
Andrew: Oh, okay.
Eric: It’s giving Ron the agency. Yeah, where was Harry when Fred was…? Oh yeah, that’s right, he was on a broom getting attacked by Death Eaters.
Andrew: Well, how many times can he save them?
Laura: I mean, Fred broke Harry’s winning streak, man.
Eric: It was actually Mundungus, wasn’t it? Disapparating? Oh, no, that’s what killed Moody. No, what killed Fred? Oh, he was at the Battle of Hogwarts, duh. It’s at the very end of the book.
Andrew: This is like Final Destination, where he can hold it off, but eventually it will happen.
Eric: I love the reference.
Andrew: One Weasley will die.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: And how many times can Harry come and rescue them? And I’m sorry; I probably offended a lot of people when I said he made Ron relevant at Hogwarts. But it’s true, and it ties into what we’re going to talk about in a few minutes, when nobody cares that Ron got hurt.
[Everyone laughs]
Micah: Yeah, J.K. Rowling came across as a little harsh there, but clearly there’s some truth to it. Now, Hagrid also shows up, and this sends Madam Pomfrey into a tizzy.
[Eric laughs]
Micah: She can only have six people around one bed.
Andrew: This is so offensive.
Micah: What’s the deal here? I mean, to your point, this may be the most that anybody’s cared about Ron, or the most people that have cared about Ron in six books, all huddled around his bed. And Pomfrey is just… she’s got rules. Six people? Why six?
Andrew: Well, and she’s also like, “Wait, there’s ten people in here now. Oh, no, that’s just Hagrid.”
Laura: Yeah, “Oh, no, excuse me, I’m just fat-shaming somebody.”
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: “You’re so fat, you look like four people.” Like, what is that?
[Andrew and Micah laugh]
Eric: To be fair, his footprints are described as being baby dolphin-sized. Literally baby dolphin-sized.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Andrew: Look, I understand what Madam Pomfrey is saying. We see this in the Muggle world as well. When you visit people in the hospital, you’re limited to only so many people, right? It happens sometimes.
Eric: Yeah, she’s very much, though, making the rules up as she goes. I think that she’s very inconsistent with what’s allowed, but she’s always been the role of the fussy matron who’s got to maintain order or cleanliness or have some standards, because… I mean, hats off to her. I might even give her my MVP thing, because she’s just… she’s trying to to keep people safe and healthy and just create an environment that’s relaxing and suitable for recovery, and this is not it.
Andrew: Yeah, Micah.
Eric: But we’ll see.
Micah: All right, well… and Ron is unconscious, so I mean, really, he has no idea who’s there anyway.
[Eric laughs]
Micah: But I thought this whole conversation that happens once Hagrid, Harry, and Hermione step out into the hallway was very reminiscent of Chamber of Secrets, and Hagrid himself even mentions it’s much like it was back in their second year, that there are these attacks that are happening on students, perhaps the board of governors would want to try and shut down the school again…
Eric: Yep.
Micah: And Andrew, Hagrid even agrees with you that it’s a risk to send your kids to Hogwarts.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: Yeah, yeah. A safety nightmare, as I said last week. And yet the school stays open, despite some terrible things going on. Some reckless, terrible things going on, and the school stays open. It’s just… speaking of conditioning, like the Weasley set were – like I said earlier – people are just conditioned to bad things happening at Hogwarts. Yeah, so I guess there’s just not much pushback. But here we see the board of governors seriously considering shutting it down.
Eric: Man, that is such a Book 2 throwback right there. I know we were worried that the references would end because we’ve ran out of chapters from Chamber of Secrets, but I’ll be damned if there aren’t as many or more references to Book 2 in this chapter than there have been all book. The reference to the governors; Dobby and Kreacher, we’ll talk about later. But it’s just all in here. There’s tons of Chamber of Secrets stuff. It’s real cool.
Micah: Yep. Quidditch injuries.
Eric: Quidditch injuries, exactly!
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: With a Bludger.
Eric: Oh my God. Yeah, the rogue Bludger. Unbelievable.
Andrew: We’ll talk about that.
Micah: We will. And… oh, Aragog, too, gets a mention.
Eric: Yep.
Micah: That’s where Hagrid was out.
Eric: He was reading to him!
Micah: He was reading to him?
Eric: That’s what he says. He says, “I was reading him stories; his health ain’t well.”
Andrew: “Spiders: A History.”
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Eric: A science book? You think he’s reading him a…?
Andrew: Maybe.
Eric: We will ask our patrons what Hagrid was reading Aragog. We’ll get some cute replies.
Micah: Fantastic Beasts, of course.
Laura: Charlotte’s Web.
Eric: Oh, Charlotte’s Web!
Andrew: I loved that book.
Eric: But wait, the spider dies.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: If you have a spider best friend that’s near death, you’re going to read him a…?
Andrew: Hagrid was preparing him.
Laura: [laughs] But the ending is positive because Charlotte’s hundreds of thousands of children live on after her.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Oh, wait, then that’s super relevant.
Micah: I vote Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them.
Andrew: Oh, that would be cool. I mean, we didn’t get that, but that would have been a nice little reference.
Eric: Yeah. The updated, updated, updated edition, the one that says all about Grindelwald and all that other stuff that Newt wasn’t allowed to publish.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: So I thought that Hagrid here has a moment much like he does in Sorcerer’s Stone when he kind of gives away information on how to get past Fluffy. It’s kind of like one of those “I shouldn’t have said that, I shouldn’t have said that” moments.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: Classic movie line, too. “I shouldn’t have said that. I should not have said that.”
Micah: And he reveals that Snape and Dumbledore, they’re on the outs.
Andrew: Yeah, times are hard.
Micah: They are not happy with each other.
Andrew: So okay, I’m wondering, does Dumbledore know that this is Draco trying to carry out Voldemort’s plan? He does, right?
Eric and Laura: Yeah.
Eric: He has to.
Andrew: Okay, so he’s just angry at Snape not forcing… pushing Draco in the right direction, I guess?
Laura: Well, yeah, because we hear… Hagrid kind of communicates to Harry and Hermione that he heard Snape saying, “I don’t want to do this anymore.” And clearly, in retrospect, we know now that Snape is telling Dumbledore, “I don’t want to participate in this mission to kill you anymore.” [laughs]
Andrew and Eric: Yeah.
Andrew: Even though they know at this point he has to die because the curse is killing him. A pretty surprising admission from Snape, don’t you agree? To say, “I don’t want to do this anymore”? He’s usually a trooper.
Eric: It’s just… I can understand why Dumbledore is pissed; he’s never had that form of open resistance before. Nobody he’s using actively who knows they’re being used has actively actually said no and meant it. Maybe Newt at some point in the movies we’re not yet… the stories we’re not yet familiar with. But for Snape to say, “I don’t want to do this anymore,” or “I’m tired of it,” or “You expect too much,” it’s very trying, because Dumbledore doesn’t have a lot of options at this point. This late in the game, he doesn’t have many people he can trust, and the people he can trust, he’s toying with. Like Harry? He doesn’t really need to go on this huge quest to get this answer from Slughorn; Dumbledore’s already acted on the information as if it were true. So it’s just Dumbledore is misusing his people, and he risks being short one if Snape just says, “I’m done. I’m over it.”
Andrew: I wonder what would have happened if Snape totally bailed out. What would Dumbledore have done? Gone to Draco and been like, “Hey, so look, I’m cool with you killing me because I’m going to die anyway; here’s how to do it”?
Micah: Maybe.
Andrew: Or send anonymous letters to Draco, like, “Hey, here’s what you should do next, if I were you.”
[Eric laughs]
Laura: Wasn’t the implication that if Snape didn’t do it, they were pretty sure that Bellatrix was going to do it?
Andrew: Yes.
Laura: And Dumbledore was like, “Bellatrix likes to play with her food; please don’t let that happen”?
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Andrew: Well, and the other factor was that Dumbledore wanted a quick, painless death, and Bellatrix would not have given him that.
Laura: Well, and also, this kills two birds with one stone – sorry for that – but it solidifies Snape’s position as a “Death Eater.”
Andrew: Right.
Micah: So it’s just interesting to me, though, that he doesn’t want to do it anymore. Could that be also referring to just trailing Draco, trying to keep tabs on him?
Andrew: Probably.
Micah: Even though he’s made this Unbreakable Vow, it seems like he’s not doing a good job intervening in certain cases, because other members of this school have been put at risk as a result of Snape really failing to do his task.
Eric: I think Snape is just sick of teenagers. [laughs]
Andrew: Yeah, Snape has better things to do.
Eric: Draco won’t confide in him what he’s doing. He’s forced to be secretive, just because that’s the way Dumbledore wants it. I side with Snape on this, but I also think that by the end of the book, whatever Snape knows about Harry having his old Potions book is a little bit unclear as well, except that Snape really is sick of Harry as well. Snape is just, I think, tired of dealing with teenagers, and that’s something that will show up later in the book.
Andrew: Tired of looking into Lily’s eyes.
Eric: Yeah, yeah.
Micah: Well, Hagrid and Harry and Hermione’s conversation gets interrupted by Filch, who is patrolling the castle, and is looking just to do something to Harry and Hermione for being out of bed. I don’t know; what time is it even? Is it three o’clock in the morning? Who knows?
Laura: It’s midnight.
Micah: It’s midnight, okay. And Laura, as you point out, Filch just clearly does not realize that Harry and Hermione are with a professor – Hagrid is a professor – and doesn’t really have a whole lot of respect for him. However, Hagrid turns around and refers to Filch as a “sneakin’ Squib.” That’s a little rough.
Andrew: Little racist.
Laura: Yeah, definitely some prejudice here. I do think it’s interesting, though, because of course, we’re seeing this, and it’s kind of an ugly side of Hagrid, but knowing Filch’s personality and seeing the way that Filch clearly just disregards Hagrid as a member of the faculty… he even questions Hagrid, “Well, why shouldn’t they get detention?” And Hagrid says, “Because they’re with me, you idiot.” It’s clear to me, probably, that Filch has not been kind to Hagrid, likely as a result of him being half-giant.
Andrew: Probably.
Laura: So we’re probably seeing a case of members of these disenfranchised groups turning against each other, which happens in the real world.
Eric: So do you think racism cancels… the prejudices cancel each other out?
Laura: No, not at all. It’s never right, but I think that this is representative of a problem that we see in the real world quite frequently, which is members of disenfranchised groups being turned against each other.
Eric: Right.
Micah: Do you also think it could have just been a heat of the moment type of situation where…? And not justifying it in any way, obviously. But I think we all either ourselves have experienced moments, or have witnessed moments where people just get amped up and, where normally they wouldn’t say things, end up coming out that we otherwise wouldn’t have normally said.
Laura: Sure, but that’s always reflective of some amount of truth, though.
Micah: Oh, totally. No, I’m not saying that it isn’t, but that just looking at the situation from Hagrid’s end, to your point, he just got fat-shamed a little bit when he was in the hospital wing…
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Micah: … and then he’s trying to have a conversation with two of his friends, I would say – not even students – two of his friends, who he’s obviously still a little ticked off at for dropping Care of Magical Creatures, which he mentions yet again.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Micah: And then here comes this lackey down the hallway. I shouldn’t talk badly of Filch, but I think he was just in the moment. But still, no reason for him to talk to Filch that way.
Andrew: And he just made a mistake; he accidentally let out some info about Dumbledore and Snape that he shouldn’t have…
Micah: True.
Andrew: … so he’s frustrated at himself, so there are several reasons why…
Micah: He should have just kicked Mrs. Norris.
Eric: Oh, God.
Laura: All right, animal cruelty was definitely the answer.
[Micah laughs]
Andrew: Don’t say that, Micah, on Captain Marvel weekend, when a cat shines in a movie.
Eric and Laura: Aww.
Andrew: Cat representation. Anyway, it was completely out of line for Filch to say that they shouldn’t be out right now with a teacher. Of course it’s okay for them to be with a teacher at this hour, no matter what time it is.
Eric: Yeah, and they’re just coming from the hospital wing where they’re visiting their dying – potentially – friend. It’s just one of those things. The scariest part for me is that Hagrid sends Harry and Hermione off, and the voices, the angry voices, continue till they’re out of earshot, so whatever they’re saying to each other when Harry and Hermione walk away is probably worse. And at least we think the situation gets diffused somehow.
Micah: It’s a good point.
Laura: I just hope Filch is being careful, because he’s going up against somebody who has footprints the size of baby dolphins. Hagrid could take him.
Andrew: Hagrid could body slam him. Filch would be dead. Madam Pomfrey could not grow back those bones.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Andrew: We spoke about Ron a few minutes ago, and it’s noted in the chapter, as we said, that people aren’t very concerned about what’s happened to Ron. It’s played off as not very severe because there was a teacher present, so people thought, “Oh, it may have just been a classroom accident. No biggie.” I also think it might just be people going, “Oh, there goes Ron screwing up again.” [laughs]
Laura: I don’t think so, because these kinds of accidents actually do happen really frequently at Hogwarts.
Andrew: Well, exactly.
Laura: So that’s kind of… I can see why people would be like, “Oh, yeah, sometimes you just get poisoned.”
Andrew: It’s just a reminder that Ron is very irrelevant, and he has no other friends except for Harry and Hermione normally. And Harry is the only reason he’s remotely interesting. Sorry.
Laura: Okay, I disagree. Also, Harry, Ron, and Hermione, they’re this very insular trio. Realistically, the three of them don’t have too many friends apart from each other. Also, I think Ron is relevant because he’s representative of a couple of really important themes. First of all, he is representative of economic disparities that exist in both the wizarding world and the Muggle world, in which rich people are rewarded by becoming richer. And he’s also representative of the fact that you can undergo development in terms of your prejudices and overcome them, as he does by the end of the series.
Eric: With house-elves.
Laura: Exactly.
Andrew: Yeah, I guess.
Laura: Ron is relevant. Hashtag #RonIsRelevant.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: I’m just trying to rev people up.
Eric: It’s just more subtle.
Micah: He’s trying to get people to actually email the show, right? Since that…
Andrew: Yeah, you convinced me. Weasley is our king.
Laura: No, Andrew, what we have to do… we have to turn this into a feud. It’s got to go week to week. We’ve got to amp people up.
Andrew: Oooh. I’m missing next week; everybody’s like, “Oh my God. Laura and Andrew fell apart over Ron.”
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Eric: Oh, man.
Micah: Yeah, we’re not really doing a commentary episode; it’s just the fallout from this one.
Laura: I know. It’s too harsh. I’m like Yoko Ono; I’m just coming in and breaking up the band.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Oh, man. Please don’t.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Andrew: I do think, though, that it is interesting that J.K. Rowling felt the need to point out that people did not really care much about what happened to Ron.
Eric: Yeah, I think it speaks more to the secrecy in general that Dumbledore exercises over the school. In 1942 or whatever it was where Myrtle died, everybody knew. There was not this concentrated air of fogging it up, what really happened. Pretty much everybody knew that Myrtle Warren was killed, and that might be because Dippet was presumably headmaster as well, and it wasn’t Albus’s place to spread misinformation. But this time, it’s in Dumbledore’s best interest to not panic students and their teachers.
Micah: But there’s also not, like there was in Chamber of Secrets, a clear kind of conspiracy going on. Yeah, I don’t think other students are aware of the fact that there’s something at play here where somebody is trying to intentionally go after students, right?
Eric: Right.
Micah: In Chamber of Secrets, it was apparent that the Heir of Slytherin was trying to kill Mudbloods and purge the school. Here, it’s a little bit different. You can even look at these as being one-off incidents that have no relation to each other whatsoever. And maybe that’s, to your point, in part Dumbledore trying to keep a tight lid on things.
Eric: Yeah, and from the parents.
Micah: Sure.
Andrew: Good point.
Micah: Now we get to the Quidditch match in this chapter, and personally, the only reason I think that it was even included in this chapter was to put Harry in the hospital. And there was some great comedic relief from Luna Lovegood taking over as the broadcaster for Quidditch, and it was very, very fun to read.
[Eric laughs]
Micah: But I don’t know; the way the chapter just kind of pivoted… and I know we didn’t talk much about how Harry fills Ron’s replacement on the Quidditch team with Cormac McLaggen, and McLaggen is kind of tailing him around throughout…
Eric: More tails.
Micah: More tails. As is Lavender Brown, by the way, so Harry just can’t get rid of anybody.
[Eric laughs]
Micah: And Cormac really comes across in this chapter, from the moment he’s waiting for Harry in the common room to hitting him in the face with the Bludger, as a douche.
Andrew and Eric: Yeah.
Andrew: And I also just want to quickly mention that right before the Quidditch match, when Harry runs into Draco and the two girls, Harry is so obsessed at this point with figuring out what Draco is up to that he just straight up says to him… he demands, as J.K. Rowling writes…
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: … his sworn enemy, to his face, where he’s going. He just demands, “Where’re you going?” [laughs] Of course Draco is not going to answer that, but this is how desperate Harry is for answers now that he just says it to his face. It cracks me up.
[Micah laughs]
Laura: Man, if I had been Draco, I would have been like, “I gotta go take a wicked dump; that’s where I’m going.”
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: “If you must know.” And then Harry would be like, “You need to poop with two girls?”
Laura: Hey, you know?
Micah: [laughs] Maybe he’s into that.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: I’d have been like, “Oh, I have an appointment with your mom,” or something like that, something childish.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: Oh, that would be rough, because his mom’s dead.
Micah: But I was going to say, yeah, along those lines. Be like, “I’m going off to have a threesome with these…”
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: I was going to say that, but I didn’t want to take it there. This is a family-friendly show.
Eric: They’re underage. I don’t know why they pick 11-year-old girls to turn into, first of all, by the way, and I think next chapter, Ron even says, “I swear they’re getting smaller.” It’s just so funny that Crabbe and Goyle are big, big, lurky boys.
Micah: Well, who is the one that blushed at Harry, though? That’s the real question.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Eric: Anyway, we’ll talk about… because that’s actually the beginning of next chapter, the very beginning, so we’ll reserve it for there. I would say for now the Quidditch match… like you’re saying, Micah, Cormac really shows his true colors, and any doubts that I may have had as a reader that Hermione did the wrong thing earlier in getting Ron the position is wiped away. Cormac keeps telling the other players what to do and how to do it, and this isn’t just practice anymore; this is the game. He cannot stop his own ego from forcing him to commentate on all the other players, that he’s not doing a good job himself, or even focusing on the game himself. And it’s ridiculous, because even when he has a good idea, his ego is just so overpowering. And the score speaks for itself; it’s 320 to 40 or something ridiculous. Cormac can never be allowed to play Quidditch ever again.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: No, and I think it points at something that Laura talked a little bit about before, where you have this shift a little bit in your perception of Slytherin with Slughorn; you could say the same thing looking at a character like Cormac, who’s a Gryffindor.
Laura: Yep.
Eric and Laura: Definitely.
Andrew: But yeah, just the idea that they’re playing this sport where you can bat these heavy balls at people for the purpose of hurting them…
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: … and then Cormac does it accidentally. It’s just another safety nightmare. One day I’m just going to make a list of all the ways this school is a disaster.
Eric: [laughs] What would you prefer be the school sport? Gobstones? Or Wizard’s Chess, maybe?
Andrew: How about Quidditch but with lighter balls? Like, do we have to hit them at other people?
Eric: Like balloons?
Andrew: Yeah, hit them at balloons, or…
Laura: Eh, that wouldn’t be as fun.
Andrew: [laughs] Laura lives for danger.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Micah: Have you ever seen it live and in person? I mean, it gets pretty intense, especially when they’re trying to catch the Snitch.
Andrew: Yeah, there’s literally an ambulance parked next to Muggle Quidditch fields in case somebody gets hurt.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Eric: Well, that’s what they need at Hogwarts. They need Madam Pomfrey to oversee all the games.
Micah: So much like Chamber of Secrets, after getting hit by a Bludger, Harry ends up in the hospital, and he’s trying to still… really, what bothers me is he wakes up and the first thing that he really thinks about is how he can continue to track Malfoy, right? This is priority number one for him. This is all he’s thinking about right now. And he runs things through his mind, and then finally, it dawns on him as he reflected back, actually, to Chamber of Secrets and Dobby showing up in the hospital; he’s like, “I can get Kreacher to tail Malfoy.” And he calls Kreacher, and for whatever reason, Dobby shows up as a bonus.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Micah: So he gets two house-elves for the price of one. And I’m just wondering at this point, though, with Dobby being so eager to do Harry’s bidding, why even involve Kreacher? Because you see how much work Harry actually has to put in to what he tells Kreacher so that Kreacher doesn’t betray him in some way, because it’s very clear that Kreacher, in a heartbeat, would help Draco instead of help Harry.
Andrew: I thought it was fun seeing Harry work that through. Lay out some rules to ensure that Kreacher couldn’t get around his request.
Eric: Well, yeah, Kreacher is the way… I mean, Kreacher is the reason Sirius Black is dead, and it’s because Sirius Black said “Go” to him, and then that was interpreted as “You can go visit Bellatrix and tell them what’s going on,” that they even formed that plan. Harry is all too well aware of Kreacher’s… the way that house-elves can interpret orders. But I think if he hadn’t used Kreacher, to Micah’s point, and just used Dobby, I think Kreacher also would have known what was going on, and maybe been even more free to warn him. You’ve kind of got to involve Kreacher, because he’s your responsibility.
Laura: And I think also, Dobby and Kreacher kind of cancel out each other’s, I guess, bad habits? For instance, we see Dobby in here, and he’s like, “Oh yeah, and if I do it wrong, I’ll throw myself from the highest tower.”
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Andrew: Which was some scary foreshadowing, I thought.
Laura: I know.
[Eric laughs]
Laura: And it’s just like, “Okay, maybe you need a character like Kreacher, who is maybe a tad stealthier, involved in this venture.”
Andrew: That’s a good point. But also, can Harry summon Dobby?
Laura: No, because Dobby is free.
Andrew: Yeah, that’s the other thing. Right.
Eric: But at the beginning of the book, when Dumbledore tells Harry that he has inherited Kreacher, it comes up. Harry is like, “I don’t want him,” and he’s like, “Well, instead of freeing him, do you just want to send him to school to work with the house-elves in the kitchens?” And Harry is like, “Oh, yeah, that’s a great idea. I’ll put him in the kitchen.” So what it was, was Harry called Kreacher, and Kreacher in the kitchens was within earshot of Dobby, said something like, “Oh, my master is calling me. I hate that guy. He’s a loser.” And then Dobby starts a fist fight, because they were fighting when Kreacher, crack, appeared. They were in a brawl over not… Dobby was telling Kreacher not to insult Harry Potter. And so whether Harry wanted or not, he got both elves because they were in some kind of a internal struggle.
Micah: Yeah, I mean, he knocks out his teeth.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Eric: Yeah, Ron wakes up right away, and they have to physically pull the elves apart, which is pretty cool. My big thing is, it’s March 2, and Harry has not seen nor heard from, nor thought of, nor reached out to Dobby and Kreacher since before September 1. Harry is a bad friend, you guys, and he’s a bad master to Kreacher! If Kreacher or Dobby were a Tamagotchi, Harry would be SOL. He’d pull up the thing and they’d be dead. They’d be long dead. I forget if it’s a ghost or a skeleton or what.
Andrew: Wait a second, though. Why would Harry want to bother Kreacher? He knows that Kreacher hates him.
Laura: Well, Dumbledore brought up this point at the end of Order of the Phoenix, where he was like, “Yeah, listen, the reason that Sirius is dead, ultimately, is because Kreacher went off and told Bellatrix at all what was going on.” But ultimately, Kreacher was, first of all, demented because of the locket. Secondly, Sirius abused the shit out of him, so Kreacher was kind of a creature [laughs] of Sirius’s own design. And Dumbledore brings up this point, I think, to drive home to Harry, “Hey, this happened because Sirius was very unkind towards Kreacher, so don’t make the same mistake.”
Micah: Yeah, exactly.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: And I also found it interesting, too, that now you have Dobby trailing his old family, and trying to get information on them. And as far as summoning Dobby, I do think Harry could summon Dobby if he really wanted to. I just feel like there’s that connection, and Dobby will do anything for Harry…
Laura: Yeah.
Andrew: Oh, yeah.
Micah: … as we see in Deathly Hallows. And I think he clearly doesn’t trust Kreacher, and I think, to the point that was raised earlier, they do kind of keep each other in check.
Laura: But what I’ve got to bring up here… this made me so uncomfortable. We’ve talked about a few times as we’re rereading this as adults, there are several moments that are just so cringey that maybe we thought were kind of cute and quirky when we were younger, and this was one of them. Harry is just down with the elvish slavery thing, as long as it is convenient for him. What the hell?
Andrew: [laughs] Yeah. Well, like I’ve been saying, Harry is very desperate at this point, so he’s willing to look past the fact that he’s commanding these elves to do something.
Eric: And Kreacher is not against being commanded; he just doesn’t want to be commanded by a blood traitor like Harry, or a half-blood filth like Harry. Kreacher actually says, “I would rather be the servant of that Malfoy boy,” which is ironic because he’s looking at the actual former servant of the Malfoy boy, Dobby. But also, so Kreacher is not objecting to being someone’s… to having someone as a master; he just wishes he were part of the Death Eater families, basically.
Laura: Well, and he’s known nothing different, so it doesn’t surprise me that he would want that. But it just makes me wonder how this situation might be different if Harry had actually approached Kreacher and the other house-elves with more respect and more acknowledgement of their autonomy, and said, “Hey, I do want you to have your freedom, but at the same time, I want to have a relationship with you. I’m not going to just call you to tell you to do things for me when it’s convenient for me.”
Eric: Yeah, I thought about that in this chapter, because Kreacher shows up in a rag or whatever, and Dobby is wearing several hats.
Laura: Yeah!
Eric: “Several” hats. But I was like, oh yeah, Harry can’t even clothe Kreacher and be like, “I’m going to take you under my wing, buddy,” because the second he gives Kreacher some clothes, Kreacher is free of his contract and will go to the Dark side. He will absolutely tell the Death Eaters everything he knows about Harry Potter, willingly. He won’t even need to be coerced to do it. So Harry is in a bit of a pickle because he can’t offer that particular kindness to Kreacher, to your point, Laura. There’s some kindnesses he can’t give Kreacher. Kreacher is too, at this point, unstable to be trusted, and that’s why Harry needs to give him the laundry list of things not to do. But it is a tough situation.
Laura: This is all Sirius and Regulus’s fault. This is all their fault.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Well, and their parents for raising Kreacher in the way that they did, with the set of values.
Andrew: Okay, we’re about to continue Chapter by Chapter with Connecting the Threads, but first, this week’s episode is also brought to you by Robinhood.
[Ad break]
Connecting the Threads
Andrew: All right, Micah, last week’s chapter also marked the end of Chamber of Secrets, those parallels, but the threads can continue.
Micah: Yeah, they definitely, definitely do, and I know we’ll be making many more comparisons between the two books. But really, there was a lot reminiscent about Chamber of Secrets in this particular chapter, and I think we touched on recently Harry being in the hospital wing after getting hit with a rogue Bludger, courtesy of McLaggen. And of course, in Chamber of Secrets he ends up in the hospital wing courtesy of Dobby, and I don’t think any surprise that Dobby shows up yet again in this chapter when Harry is in the hospital wing, so a nice tieback there with those two incidents. And Harry’s conversation with Hagrid, as we talked about earlier on in the episode, there’s a lot of throwbacks to Chamber of Secrets, even mentioned directly by Hagrid himself. We don’t even need to make the comparisons of the school potentially shutting down and students being attacked and Aragog being mentioned; it’s all right there in front of us, and it’s not by coincidence. And just one other thing worth mentioning is Harry’s suspicions of Malfoy, right? They’re pretty rampant in both books, at least initially, on the part of Harry, and he’s definitely suspicious of Malfoy in this book.
Andrew and Eric: Yeah.
Eric: Just this time, Malfoy is up to something.
Micah: Exactly. And we mentioned the young ladies that are with Malfoy in this chapter; they’re using Polyjuice Potion, and of course, Harry and Ron transform into Crabbe and Goyle using Polyjuice in Chamber of Secrets. So there’s probably a whole lot more, even some that our listeners are able to catch on to that we don’t, but it’s always fun making these connections between the two books.
Andrew: Ah, nice catches.
Micah: Thanks. I appreciate that.
Andrew: I’m glad you enjoy it. You are clearly a pro at it.
MVP of the Week
Andrew: So MVP of the Week. I’m going to give it to Harry for making the Weasleys relevant again. Thank you, Harry.
Micah: [laughs] Wow.
[Eric laughs]
Micah: I’m going to give it to Dobby for knocking out Kreacher’s teeth.
Eric: [laughs] I’m going to give it to Luna for obvious reasons. She has to just keep being herself and the audience will love her.
Laura: And I’m going to give it to Hagrid for providing conveniently placed plot leaks.
Eric: It does give Harry some hope. It’s the one ray of hope this whole chapter that he has, that the cards are… what is Harry hoping for, that the house of cards is falling?
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Because Harry is actively rooting against Dumbledore at this point, I think. Or against Snape, at the very least.
Andrew: [laughs] Yeah, he is frustrated.
Rename the Chapter
Andrew: Rename the Chapter now. We said at the start that “Elf Tales” isn’t a good one for this chapter, so let’s fix that. Mine is Half-Blood Prince Chapter 19, “Safety nightmare, part 3,734.”
[Laura and Micah laugh]
Micah: Mine is Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince Chapter 19, “Back on the ward.”
Eric: Mine is Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince Chapter 19, “Oh yeah, I have a house-elf.”
Andrew: “And I’m going to exploit him.”
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Laura: And mine is inspired by a Ramones song. Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince Chapter 19, “Beat on the brat (with a baseball bat).”
Andrew: Oh, how fun.
Eric: What’s the Ramones song?
Laura: “Beat on the Brat.”
Eric: Oh, cool.
Andrew: Can you sing it for us so we can remember it?
Laura: No. You can play it, though.
Andrew: Let’s see here… I wish Laura would sing. She never sings.
[“Beat on the Brat” by The Ramones plays]
Andrew: [laughs] Okay.
Micah: That was actually Laura singing.
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: Yep, it was.
Andrew: Laura karaoke.
Laura: It was me all along. [laughs]
Voicemails
Andrew: Let’s listen to some voicemails now. This first one I don’t really agree with, but we’re going to give them a shot.
[Voicemail plays]
“Hi, MuggleCasters. My name is Justin from Wilmington, Delaware. I’ve actually been a longtime fan of your show, and you actually spoke about me one time when Harry and the Potters played in this area a number of years ago. I had submitted a fan photo with the old MuggleCast microphone lightning bolt shirt. So anyway, I’m calling because I have a theory about the phoenix that Grindelwald and Credence have, because I know that it’s been spoken about that phoenixes come to the aid of Dumbledores, and I feel that that phoenix is actually Fawkes who is going to Credence in the aid of Dumbledore. So I would like you guys to ponder that one over. I think it’s a very good possibility. All right, thanks again. Bye.”
[Voicemail ends]
Andrew: So I think the big question is how did that phoenix get to Grindelwald’s lair? Because we don’t see it flying in at the aid of Credence; we’re not really given the impression that it showed up just because Credence is there. So I hesitate to think that that is actually Fawkes. That said, I do feel like Fawkes could be showing up at some point in this series.
Eric: Well, I mean, Credence, I thought, carried the bird with him to Germany or Austria, because he has the bird earlier in the film. When he’s with Nagini in the empty flat… the top of the building, he’s petting a little baby bird. I think that Fawkes has found… I think it is Fawkes. I think Fawkes has found his way to Credence, to aid in him. And the only difference is that Grindelwald cast that spell that makes him grow into a big phoenix immediately, rather than through time. So I think it is Fawkes. I kind of took that as canon from the get-go.
Andrew: Huh. Okay. Yeah, you know what? I misremembered that end scene; I thought that phoenix was just there, but now I’m playing it back and I see what you’re saying. I don’t know, though. You still wonder… I mean, are we saying that’s the origin of Fawkes? That’d be pretty crazy.
Eric: It’s a weird origin of Fawkes. Yeah, it’s unclear why a lot of that happens offscreen, and in order for this to work, Credence would have to be a Dumbledore.
Laura: Yeah, and I was going to say, I mean, I wouldn’t be surprised, just based on the fact that they did make Credence a Dumbledore, at least as far as we know at this point. So them making him Aurelius Dumbledore makes the idea that that could be Fawkes somewhat more plausible just because it’s like, “Well, why not?”
Andrew: And what if another reason Dumbledore – Albus Dumbledore – feels so close to Fawkes is because it’s a memory of his brother? Because Credence has to die at some point in this series; otherwise, he probably would have showed up in the Harry Potter series at some point. Aurelius Dumbledore, if he is a Dumbledore.
Micah: [laughs] Yeah, the only thing here that troubles me is that it’s said that phoenixes are only loyal to those who they connect with, right? I’m paraphrasing, but I couldn’t see the transfer of Fawkes to Albus. We were told, I believe – and I can look this up – that Fawkes was only Albus’s. He was never anybody else’s.
Andrew: That’s all we know, but we don’t know where he was before Albus Dumbledore. And who are we to say that he only came into existence with Albus?
Micah: But he leaves once Dumbledore dies. It’s not like he goes to Harry… well, or… yeah, or maybe it’s like staying within the family. But I just feel like the phoenix’s loyalty is only to that person. It’s not to anybody else within the family.
Andrew: Maybe Fawkes was just done with Dumbledores after Albus died. He’s like, “You know what? I can’t handle all these losses anymore. I’m out of here.”
Eric: [laughs] But yeah, Micah is saying so he would have just stayed with Credence and then flown away once Credence died.
Micah: Exactly. But phoenixes are immortal creatures, so… presumably.
Andrew: We hear time and time again, though, that it’s a family legend, that they stay in the family, not that they stay with a particular person in the family.
Eric: Well, maybe it’s one phoenix per member of the family. I’m not sure. Maybe also Dumbledore – what’s the word? – absorbs some of Credence’s life blood, the rest of Credence. Credence gets grievously injured, and then Dumbledore just absorbs the rest of him, alchemically or so, and then that’s why Fawkes stays with Albus, because he’s still Credence in some way.
Andrew: Did we look for Fawkes in the credits? That would confirm.
Micah: Or in the script book.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Andrew: No, it’s not mentioned there; we definitely would have caught that. Let’s listen to another voicemail.
[Voicemail plays]
“Hey, MuggleCast. I have a weird theory for you guys. So I’m thinking that Newt is an Animagus, and his Animagus is a salamander. I don’t know. I think he’s really good with beasts maybe because he kind of is one. He says Tina’s eyes are like a salamander’s, which is kind of a weird thing to say, unless… I mean, how long do you spend time looking at a salamander’s eyes, unless you kind of are one? He has no loss of limbs, regardless of working with all these dangerous creatures, and salamanders can regrow almost any part of their body. And maybe he can Accio a Niffler because through some weird kind of connection that a normal wizard couldn’t be able to do… I don’t know, kind of like how Voldemort can fly. I don’t know. Maybe not so much for that one. And come on, guys. I mean, his name is Newt Scamander. A newt is a salamander, and Scamander kind of rhymes with salamander. I don’t know. It’s the weirdest theory I came up with, but it makes sense. Thanks for listening, guys. Bye.”
[Voicemail ends]
Andrew: I would say this is a crackpot theory, but these are very good reasons why he could be an Animagus.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Laura: I think this is fun. It’s a fun theory. That said, I think that in terms of the salamander eyes thing, Newt is a weird dude. He’s a weird dude; we get this sense throughout all the films so far. And I think of anyone, he’s probably the most likely character in the series to have really examined salamander eyes in the past. And I think it’s just a funny thing that J.K. Rowling has done here, naming him “Newt,” and then having him never having lost any limbs. She likes to do these plays on words with people’s names.
Micah: Definitely.
Eric: Yeah. I love this theory, though. I think it’s funny.
Laura: Yeah, it really is.
Andrew: I like how he called in and just didn’t feel confident about it, but after hearing it, I feel confident in the theory, personally.
Eric: Yeah, I think it’s plausible.
Micah: I just did a little bit more digging on Fawkes. It is stated that Dumbledore was his first owner, and what’s also interesting – and I really forgot about this – is that he must have been around at some point in the 1930s since he provides the core to Tom Riddle’s wand.
Eric: Oh, whoa.
Andrew: I’ve done some reading on Fawkes too, though, and I don’t know if I’ve seen that… we didn’t know what happened to him before, what was going on with him before Albus. So I still think he could have been with Aurelius at the end of the movie.
Eric: Wait, you’re right. How does Fawkes become available for Ollivander to use in his wand that Tom Riddle gets? He would have to be with Albus Dumbledore, and then Albus Dumbledore would have to make a concentrated effort to gift Fawkes’s tail feathers to… maybe Movie 3 is about how Albus settles the score with Ollivander by donating two phoenix tail feathers from his pet phoenix. I have no idea.
Micah: Not to complicate things more, but…
Andrew: J.K. Rowling said in 2005… somebody asked the question, “Who did Fawkes previously belong to and will he play vital role in the next book?” So this was after Half-Blood Prince came out. “I am not going to answer about the role in the next books… he has never been owned by anyone but Dumbledore. You will notice that when Harry goes back in the Pensieve in this book, Fawkes is never there, and no, I’m sorry, not in this book, I take that back. When Harry has previously seen the study with a different headmaster – he saw it with Dippet – and Fawkes was not there then.” So she did say once, 14 years ago, that Fawkes was never in anyone else’s possession. Will that hold true? We will see.
Eric: Gosh.
Andrew: In defense of Dumbledore. Here’s a voicemail defending Dumbledore.
[Voicemail plays]
“Hi, MuggleCast. This is Julie. I was just calling in to defend Dumbledore. So everybody is way too hard on him; I know he’s not perfect, but he’s made out to be this egotistical manipulator that just uses people like they were tools with no thought to the consequences or the emotions behind what he’s doing, and there’s a real undertone of selfishness that I think is completely opposite of Dumbledore’s true character. The truth is that he’s guarding this incredibly important secret, and he would love to tell everybody, but he can’t, so I see him more like a master choreographer, where he’s setting everybody in the right spot. But he cares very deeply about everybody – that was almost the fatal flaw in the plan – and I think he’s doing everything he can to minimize who gets hurt, and he’s even willing to sacrifice himself for this. So I just think that sometimes we’re too quick to judge him based on his past, and we can see the good side of him more. Thanks! Bye.”
[Voicemail ends]
Andrew: Laura, do you feel any differently now?
Laura: No. I mean, I think there’s some valid points brought up here. I don’t think that it would be fair to say that Dumbledore doesn’t care about the people who are involved in this mission, but I get the distinct impression that he cares more about the outcome than he does about all of the pieces that are involved in making the outcome happen. Certainly, he had to have suspected that Snape was going to die as a result of this. He definitely knew that Harry was going to have to sacrifice himself. Whether he knew that Harry would be able to come back or not, I think that’s up in the air.
Eric: Yeah, the only reason Harry ever hears that he himself has to die is because Snape survived just long enough to tell Harry, basically, through the memory.
Laura: Yep.
Eric: Dumbledore, if he cared, really should have brought that up a lot sooner.
Andrew: But were there any other options? Harry had to do it, so can you blame Dumbledore if there was no other way to defeat Voldemort?
Eric: No, but to tell him. I’m saying Dumbledore didn’t tell Harry, and that information very well could have died with Snape. Dumbledore left too much up to chance. Dumbledore is very much a “Ends justify the means” guy, and I think whether or not you agree with Dumbledore or like Dumbledore has to do with whether or not you believe the ends justify the means. Dumbledore is in an impossible position – no one would disagree – but I think that due to his specific skills, he’s also the person who is the only one capable of orchestrating or choreographing, like this listener said.
Micah: And I think a lot of our judgment of Dumbledore comes Half-Blood Prince onwards.
Laura: Yes.
Micah: I don’t think we think about it as much in the previous books. It’s definitely Half-Blood Prince/Deathly Hallows, especially now that we have more information on him and will continue to get more on his relationship with his family, his relationship with Grindelwald. And I just think that it’s almost like you pull back the curtain a little bit, right? On, really, the Obi-Wan of the series. You don’t always get that opportunity.
Eric: Yeah, that’s a good point.
Micah: He’s the Gandalf. He’s whoever you want to compare him to. Or Yoda. Whoever you want to compare him to. I mean, you don’t always get that backstory. You don’t always get that chance to dive deep into the character, and we’re getting that with Fantastic Beasts. And I agree, he’s a master choreographer, but he’s also a master manipulator. I mean, he manipulates so many people throughout the course of the series, and you could argue it’s for the greater good, but to Eric’s point, he leaves up a lot to chance. I mean, he’s tasked Harry with almost an impossible task, to destroy all those Horcruxes. And to the point about Snape, who knew if Snape was going to be able to survive up until the point where Harry just so happens to get his tears and be able to put them into the Pensieve to learn the truth? There’s a lot that’s left up to chance, and I don’t think that Dumbledore did a lot of very good planning in his latter days.
Andrew: All right, one more voicemail today.
[Voicemail plays]
“Hey guys, what’s up? I’ve been listening to your show for the last couple weeks, and I love it. If you could save one character who died in the Harry Potter series, who would you save? Answer in your next podcast, please.”
[Voicemail ends]
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: All right.
Andrew: This person didn’t say their name, so I’m just going to call them Fawkes.
[Laura and Micah laugh]
Andrew: Welcome to the show, Fawkes. I would save Snape, because he ended up not being the master of the Elder Wand, and he did not need to die, and I would have liked to have seen him lead a peaceful life after Voldemort died, and maybe finally find love.
Laura: Aw. I would save Dobby. This death always gets me. In fact, I not too long ago watched Deathly Hallows – Part 1, and I cried during the Dobby scene, and I was like, “Damn, this movie’s been out forever, and I’ve seen this a million times, and this still makes me cry.”
[Eric laughs]
Laura: I just like to imagine him living out his days as a free elf, and visiting Harry and the kids at Christmas and coming around to say hello and being there for birthday parties.
Eric: You’re going to make me cry. Stop it.
Andrew: [imitating Dobby] “Thank you, Laura, for wanting to save me.”
[Micah laughs]
Laura: It’s more of my headcanon. [laughs]
Andrew: Laura, you want to hear something creepy? I knew that you watched Deathly Hallows – Part 1 because we’re friends on PlayStation.
Laura: Oh, that’s…!
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Andrew: PlayStation told me, and I was actually wondering why you watched it. Tell us, why did you watch it?
Laura: I guess I just wanted to. I had a hint of nostalgia, and I was like, “Oh, I haven’t seen this movie in a minute. I’ll watch it.”
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: Wow.
Eric: Wait, so did you watch it on disc, and it told Andrew? Was it a…?
Laura: No.
Eric: Okay.
Laura: No, I downloaded it.
Andrew: Nice.
Eric: Oh, okay, because I’m like, “How does PlayStation report to other PlayStation friends what movies you’re watching?” That seems a little Big Brother-y.
Laura: Oh, it reports everything if your settings are set to public with your friends, so I can see what games Andrew is playing. I was giving him a hard time for a while because twice in a row I logged in and he was playing Grand Theft Auto.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: Had to let out some rage.
Eric: Well, you guys got to friend me. I’m on PSN.
Laura: Oh, yeah. We’ve got to rectify this.
Andrew: I’ve got to admit, every time… because PlayStation tells you when a friend is online, so I just go… and I’m only friends with Laura and her boyfriend Marc, so I just go and I check out what they’re doing.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: Laura is always playing Spyro.
Laura: Yeah, well, part of that is that I’m lazy as hell, and I never actually quit the game, so it always shows that I’m playing Spyro.
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: Oh, that explains a lot, because you do seem to play it a lot.
Laura: No. [laughs]
Micah: All right.
Eric: Oh, man.
Micah: For me, I would save Remus. I think that he’s one of the first real father figures to Harry in the series, and I think is obviously a strong tie to his past, and really is the one who teaches him the foundation of Defense Against the Dark Arts, which becomes critical to Harry moving forward. And I would also say just because he has a son, too, later on in the series, who I know J.K. Rowling has talked about sort of bringing the series full circle with what she did with Remus and Tonks. But also just to have Remus there… Harry loses pretty much all of his father figures and all of his mentors in the series, and I think to have Remus there would be good.
Andrew: Yeah, that was a hard one.
Micah: And to give Teddy his father back.
Eric: Yeah. If we go by the rule of no duplicates, I’m going to go with Sirius, because I just think that Sirius had a rough go. He spent the last year of his life sort of a free man, but he was languishing in this home that he could never go outside, and he was a prisoner even after he escaped Azkaban for the last year, and then he just ups and dies. And I think that flawed character though he was – I think Remus is definitely a better father figure and definitely a better protector for Harry – I would have liked to have seen Sirius get a chance to live in Harry’s sixth year, Harry’s seventh year, and beyond, to maybe find some redemption that he never quite was able to get, because J.K. Rowling saved him only to snuff him out.
Andrew: All right, well, thank you to everybody who called in today. If you would like to leave a voicemail, our number is 1-920-3-MUGGLE; that’s 1-920-368-4453. You can also feel free to email us – MuggleCast@gmail.com – or just use the contact form on the website. Of course, we also love hearing from people when they listen to the episode, so please write in. Tweet us; Twitter.com/MuggleCast. Hit us up on Facebook; Facebook.com/MuggleCast. We love hearing from y’all when you listen to the episode! It feels good! Otherwise we feel alone out here, so join us by reaching out.
Quizzitch
Andrew: It’s time now for some Quizzitch.
Eric: Yep, and last week’s question, which we all heard, was…
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: … who’s the big Hufflepuff that successfully takes the Quaffle from Ginny during Quidditch? And as a hint, Luna cannot remember his name. You know who did remember his name, guys? PotterHobbit over on Twitter, who said, “No book needed; just remembered the odd name.” The answer, of course – who can forget this big Hufflepuff? – Cadwallader. Cadwallader is his name. It’s not Bibble; it’s not Buggins; it’s Cadwallader, and McGonagall corrects Luna when she can’t remember. Congratulations to all of our winners who submitted the answer over on Twitter: Brock G., Kim Van Wick, Kate, Fluffy McCutters, who said, “Bibble and Buggins sort of sound like Bilbo Baggins,” Dumby the Bumblebee, Sarah D., Leif, Count Ravioli, Sara a.k.a. Weensie, Karin, and Vaping with Dad, who says that Cadwallader is his favorite character in the Harry Potter series…
Micah: That’s bullshit.
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: … aside from Yaxley.
Andrew: They just want attention, and they got it.
Micah: I like the Dumby… what was it?
Eric: Dumby the Bumblebee.
Micah: That’s a Dumbledore reference, right?
Eric: Yes. Well, Dumbledore’s name in French means Bumblebee.
Andrew: Ah.
Eric: And “Albus” is Latin for white, or pure. Yes, so this next week’s question is in there. Again, we’re going to the future chapter that we’re going to be reading on the next chapter episode. But who is the Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher at Hogwarts when Lord Voldemort was in school?
Andrew: Ooh.
Eric: And that answer can be found in the next chapter of Half-Blood Prince. Submit your answers to us over on Twitter at @MuggleCast using hashtag #Quizzitch.
Andrew: Yeah, read along with us. It’s a good excuse to read along. We will get the answer to that question in two weeks, because next week is our Crimes of Grindelwald commentary. We hope you join us for that. Grab your digital copy, grab your physical copy, and watch along with us. It’ll be a lot of fun, because there’s so much happening in this movie, and we will try to discuss all of it, though like I’ve said, I think we might need two commentaries to discuss everything that we see.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Andrew: But we’ll have a lot of fun doing that. We would appreciate your support over at Patreon.com/MuggleCast. We will be sending out more signed album art this year; we’re going to do it again because we have new album art. We’re also working on a new physical gift that will go out to all patrons who are at the Dumbledore’s Army level or above. We’re also running a new giveaway; we’re giving away copies of Crimes of Grindelwald, the physical edition, so you can still pledge and be eligible to win. All you’ve got to do is briefly fill out an entry form. That is for those who are at the Slug Club level. And speaking of the Slug Club level, we will have a guest on in the next couple weeks, one of our listeners. So thanks, everybody, for listening. As always, we really appreciate you listening and your support. I’m Andrew.
Eric: I’m Eric.
Micah: I’m Micah.
Laura: And I’m Laura.
Andrew: See you all next time. Goodbye.
Laura and Micah: Bye.