Transcript for MuggleCast Episode #411, RiddleGin (HBP 20, Lord Voldemort’s Request)
Show Intro
[Show music plays]
Andrew Sims: Welcome to MuggleCast Episode 411. I’m Andrew.
Eric Scull: I’m Eric.
Micah Tannenbaum: I’m Micah.
Laura Tee: And I’m Laura.
Andrew: Micah, you just got back from a exciting trip, didn’t you?
Micah: Yeah, I was over in Ireland for about a week, and it was a lot of fun.
Andrew: Do anything Harry Potter-y?
Micah: Yeah, I made it out to the Cliffs of Moher, which was a filming location for Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince. It’s when Harry and Dumbledore are about to enter the cave to go after the locket Horcrux, and they’re standing out on that rock in the middle of the sea. That was actually filmed… well, I believe that they were CGI’ed in later, but the scenery, at least, was filmed at the cliffs, and it’s really an amazing, kind of breathtaking spot.
Andrew: That’s awesome. Did you go looking for the cave? Did you go try to help Dumbledore?
Micah: It’s a little far down, and I was just more there for the photo op.
Andrew: I see. Well, you posted that on social media…
Micah: I did.
Andrew: … and we posted it also on our new Instagram! I want to let everybody know we recently launched an official Instagram for the podcast, finally, after all this time, because we are hiring a social media manager soon, and she’s going to be managing all of our channels. And we’ve been missing Instagram! And Instagram is the biggest social network right now; all the cool kids are on it, I hear. So we are at Instagram.com/MuggleCastPod, because unfortunately, a fan took Instagram.com/MuggleCast…
Laura: What?!
Andrew: … and she hasn’t posted in, like, seven years.
Laura: Oh, come on. Give it back.
Micah: We’ve got to get that fixed. Who do I gotta call? I know people.
Andrew: [laughs] Well, I looked into the Instagram rules, and we really have no rights to it.
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: Because we don’t have a trademark or anything.
Micah: But if it’s inactive for that long, I feel like if we sent an email, we may be able to get it.
Andrew: Maybe. Well, look, we can try.
Eric: I sent an Instagram message to that account about four or five months ago when we first kicked this idea around, and I did not hear back.
Andrew: Oh, I didn’t know you did that, because I did that too, and same thing. No response.
Eric: It’s not even seen.
Micah: I know people at Instagram. I’ll take care of this.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: Ah, Micah, social media expert with the hookups. I actually like the name MuggleCastPod. [laughs]
Micah: Eh…
Eric: It’s not bad, but you know what would be slightly better? MuggleCast. [laughs]
Andrew: Yes, especially because we have Twitter.com/MuggleCast and Facebook.com/MuggleCast.
Eric: Right.
Andrew: So please follow us there. You are going to get clips from the show, we’re going to be sharing Harry Potter memes and other fun stuff, and we’ll share other show previews. Instagram.com/MuggleCastPod. If we do get /MuggleCast, everybody will just be moved over to there automatically, so don’t be holding out until we get that fan account. [laughs] And by the way, hey, person who created it, or person who has that original account, if you’re still listening to the show, can we have it please?
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Andrew: We’ll send you some MuggleCast goods in thanks.
Laura: Whoever it is just posts a bunch of memes. It’s all memes.
Eric: But that’s what we’re looking to do, Laura.
Andrew: But they’ll be better. [laughs]
News
Andrew: Anyway, one little news item I wanted to mention – I always love talking about stuff like this – a first edition Harry Potter book sold for $90,000. This went to auction recently. Now, here’s the interesting thing… sold for £68,800. It was expected to sell for between £40 to £60,000, so it actually went for more than anticipated. This copy of the book has some typos, including on the rear cover; there’s a typo in “Philosopher’s.” It made me wonder, have any of you ever encountered a rare or just maybe a unique Harry Potter book out and about that you’ve been tempted to purchase?
Laura: No, I’ve never been one to spend inordinate amounts of money on stuff like that. I really wanted to have the UK editions of the books because of the art and everything, so I got those, but I’ve never felt compelled to spend more than I would spend on just a regular copy of the book.
Andrew and Micah: Yeah.
Micah: It’s interesting, though, because when I was on vacation we were in this town called Dingle, and there was this little book shop, and inside the book shop they actually had Harry Potter, and I guess it was either in Irish or Gaelic or the local language, and those types of things always interest me. But then if you pick one up… they had Tales of Beedle the Bard, too, illustrated, which I thought was cool. But my thing is always, if you pick one of them up, then what happens? You have to maybe collect them all.
Andrew: Yeah, and before you know it, you’re the Harry Potter Collector with this room of every version of the Harry Potter books known to man.
Micah: And speaking of collecting them all, Andrew…
Andrew: Oh?
Eric: Oh no.
Micah: I know I told you about this, but I did catch Mr. Mime when I was in Ireland.
Andrew: Congrats. I’m so happy for you. [laughs]
Micah: I actually caught two of him.
Eric: I thought Mr. Mime was exclusive to England!
Andrew: I guess all the UK. We discussed that on bonus MuggleCast last week when we were talking about Harry Potter: Wizards Unite, which is like Pokémon Go. I had… so a couple years ago when I was living in California, I was in a Malibu bookstore, and they had some books behind a glass case, and there was a copy of Sorcerer’s Stone signed by J.K. Rowling. And I was like, “Hey, bookseller, what’s the story behind this?” She had signed that in Thousand Oaks, California on her very first US book tour. So this is, of course, before she blew up. And I actually had lived in Thousand Oaks, California for a year or two, so I was just stunned that J.K. Rowling, at some point, had come through the city, a Barnes & Noble that I was visiting while living in California. I was so tempted to buy that book. It was $700. And even still today, I’m like, “Should I call that bookstore up and see if they still have it?” [laughs] Because I’m still tempted. But this was also before the days when J.K. Rowling’s signature would also come with a verification sticker, because she was a small-time author still.
Micah: Right.
Andrew: So that’s the one time I encountered a… actually, I think that’s the only time I’ve ever encountered a signed Harry Potter book for sale.
Micah: Yeah, don’t we all have signed copies? At least one?
Andrew: I have Half-Blood Prince UK.
Eric: I have Casual Vacancy.
Laura: I have Deathly Hallows UK, because that’s the one that I brought to have signed at her Carnegie Hall reading, where she made the infamous… I guess infamous announcement that people…
Micah: About Aberforth?
[Everyone laughs]
Laura: Correct.
Micah: Yeah, I think the same. I have Deathly Hallows, and then I think I have Casual Vacancy as well.
Andrew: I’ll remind you all that this is a sore point for me, because I know I was at that event, but I have no freaking clue where my signed copy of whatever book I brought is. [laughs]
Laura: I don’t recall that you actually brought a book, Andrew. They were giving out US versions of the book to everyone who bought a ticket…
Micah: That’s right.
Laura: … and you could have that signed, or you could bring your own book. I chose to bring my own, because I was like, “I don’t need another US copy; I’ve got, like, five.”
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: But where is it? Where’s my book? [laughs]
Micah: Didn’t you have her sign your chest? Isn’t that…?
Andrew: No, no, but I did ask…
Laura: You got a high five!
Andrew: Exactly, yeah. [laughs] I still remember standing there being like, [in a nerdy voice] “Please high five me.”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Laura: Maybe that’s what you traded. Maybe you either got a high five or a signature. You made your choice.
Andrew: [laughs] Damn it! I still remember she didn’t even say anything; she just stared at the hand and just leaned in. It was like, “Okay, asshole, now get out of here.” Didn’t you hand her a MuggleNet shirt, Laura?
Laura: I did, and I… it’s so humiliating in retrospect.
[Andrew and Micah laugh]
Micah: Did she take it?
Laura: Yeah, she took it, and she was so nice. And I was just like, “We love you and we love everything that you do and that you put out in the world, and here’s this shirt that’s been in my suitcase.”
[Everyone laughs]
Laura: And she just took it and was like, “Oh, thank you,” and signed my book, and I was on my way.
Andrew: That’s cute. Good story. [laughs]
Laura: Ugh.
Andrew: Hey, speaking of signatures… perfect transition, actually.
Laura: Oh, man, we’re just killing it today.
Andrew: We are doing another round of signed album art for all of our patrons, if you are at the $5 a month level or above. Since we have new album art, we thought we would sign it, and since Laura is here too now, we thought this is a great time to do this again. So please pledge as soon as possible, because the signed album art has been ordered – they are going to you, Laura, first – so get ready to put pen to paper.
Laura: That’s right.
Andrew: And then I think Eric, Micah, and I are going to sign them all together here in Chicago, and then they’ll all be going out to you. So please pledge at Patreon.com/MuggleCast as soon as possible. You will have to be a patron for three months to be eligible, and again, this is at the $5 level or above. And speaking of physical goods, we will be putting together another physical item. We have an idea in mind; we’re just working out the details. And those are going to go to everybody, again, at the $5 a month level or above later this year, and you will have to be pledging for three months or more to be eligible. So Patreon.com/MuggleCast. Help us out. We do host-read advertising on the show from time to time, but ultimately we depend on your support because it is what is most reliable.
Micah: And there’s also a page on the MuggleCast website, right, for all of our advertisers?
Andrew: There is.
Micah: So listeners can go and still take advantage of a lot of those deals.
Andrew: Yeah. And we’re not robbing you; we’re giving you some great benefits over at our Patreon, so check it out.
Eric: Yeah, over 45 hours of original extra content. We counted.
Andrew: And existing patrons, please update your address. Make sure it is current, otherwise we’re going to be sending your stuff to the wrong place.
Laura: Can you imagine how confusing it would be for somebody who has no idea who we are and they just move in to somebody’s old place and they just get this signed album art?
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: Hey, it might be the way to start them on a long journey.
Laura: That’s true.
Eric: And ten years from now, with people guesting an episode and being like, “I listened to you ever since this mail came to me incorrectly.”
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Laura: We can start sending unsolicited signed album art to people to recruit new listeners.
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: “Help us hit 2,000 patrons and we’ll start spamming people.”
[Laura laughs]
Listener Feedback
Andrew: So last week’s episode we had a great discussion, and we got some feedback. We got a lot of good feedback, and it was really nice to hear, so thank you to everybody who contacted us over the past week. Want to read this email from Katie. Micah, do you want to read it?
Micah: Sure. So first email comes from Katie, and she said,
“First of all, THANK YOU. But I just wanted to add to the conversation that on my end of the Internet, it is not fans reacting negatively at all. The people I am seeing criticizing her the most aren’t even quasi-fans. These are people that wear their disdain for J.K. Rowling and Harry Potter like a badge of honor. Any time any news about Potter comes out, they find a way to come out and brag about how they aren’t a fan, usually because of lack of representation. One person in particular I interacted with wrote a two to three THOUSAND word blog post about this issue without having even seen Crimes of Grindelwald. When I called them out, they responded, ‘I don’t want to see the movie because I don’t want to support Johnny Depp, I think it’s stupid and money-grabbing that they release the screenplays as books, and wtf is even up with Nagini? She’s supposed to be a snake.’
I think one of the difficulties of a fandom that exists primarily on Twitter is that literally anyone can add to the conversation, even if they aren’t a fan. I don’t understand why someone who doesn’t care (or at least claims to not care) about Harry Potter would waste their time and energy talking and complaining about it, but then there’s a lot of things about social media I don’t understand. Thanks for taking the time to talk about this in-depth. Really, thanks for everything about the podcast. It’s one of the things I look forward to most in my week.”
Andrew: Thanks, Katie. Yeah, there were definitely a lot of people who don’t know Harry Potter coming out and slamming J.K. Rowling too. The reason I was talking about Harry Potter fans is because most people I follow on social media are Harry Potter fans. The only people I know are Harry Potter fans!
[Everyone laughs]
Laura: Yeah, same here.
Andrew: So it was tough to see.
Micah: And one of the things I thought about after we recorded last week’s episode… because I know we talked a lot about the timing of things and how that often plays into certain circumstances and situations, and I thought all the way back to just J.K. Rowling writing these novels, and the fact that she had to change her name in order for it to be deemed successful.
Eric: Right.
Micah: And we never really talked about that, but I thought that was also a major point of… that could have factored into our conversation when we were talking about maybe that’s why some of the characters in the series weren’t as diverse at the time, because maybe she got pushback from publishers, or the outing of Dumbledore, because gay rights wasn’t as mainstream back at that time. But if you think about it, at the very core of it, J.K. Rowling couldn’t even put her real name on the books that she was writing because they didn’t think that it would resonate as well with male readers.
Laura: Yep.
Andrew: Yeah, that’s a great point. So we did get a little more feedback, and let’s listen to a voicemail about it.
[Voicemail plays]
“Hey, MuggleCast. I have lots of thoughts about J.K. Rowling, but only 60 seconds, so I’m just going to cut right to it. I am one of those Harry Potter fans who does not like J.K. Rowling. I don’t want to hear from her. I don’t care about Fantastic Beasts. The whole thing is a mess. But from my perspective, I don’t owe J.K. Rowling my unquestioning loyalty, but in return, J.K. Rowling doesn’t owe me any new content. I don’t yell at people on Twitter. I am just content to listen to MuggleCast, reread the books, rewatch the movies, and completely ignore Fantastic Beasts and everything to do with it. So thank you all for your time. Bye.”
[Voicemail ends]
Andrew: It’s very well reasoned.
Eric: I think it’s…
Laura: Yeah, and I mean, that’s the way to do it, right? You don’t have to like any of the new content. You can be content with what you have and accept that the author has given us an entire generation of people something that we will love and pass down to future generations without having to nitpick every decision that was made 30 years ago in the writing of these books, before she ever thought she was going to be a worldwide phenomenon.
Micah: Right. And I think, Laura, it goes to the point that you made last week, when you were saying the benefit of having her alive and being able to interact with her… a lot of times – this was what you had said – when you get these phenomenons that develop, you don’t have the benefit of having the author.
Laura: Right.
Micah: And I think that can play into at least how the person in that voicemail was feeling. And it also kind of reminded me a little bit of how some people feel about George R.R. Martin and with Game of Thrones…
Laura: Oh, yeah.
Micah: … and the fact that he’s allowing for the series, essentially, to be finished by the showrunners and HBO, and that he hasn’t published a book in, I want to say, eight years at this point. So yeah, it’s definitely interesting. And you can like the books but not like the author. I think that’s fair.
Andrew: So we have a couple other voicemails this week we’re going to get to before Chapter by Chapter. This one addresses the Fawkes discussion that we were having a few weeks ago.
[Voicemail plays]
“Hi, MuggleCast. My name is Jessica, and I just listened to Episode 408. I wanted to touch a little bit more on the Fawkes theory. I was curious what you guys might think about my elaboration on that theory. I personally do think that it’s Fawkes, the phoenix, and I think that he already belongs to Dumbledore. Albus Dumbledore, I should clarify. I’m kind of curious if maybe Albus sent Fawkes to Credence in order to fool Grindelwald in some way, because clearly Grindelwald already knows that Credence is not Leta’s brother. And how did he find that out? Maybe a rumor already was started that he was Aurelius Dumbledore. Maybe that rumor was started by Albus Dumbledore himself, and then to further prove that that was true, he sent Fawkes to Credence. Yeah, and also, I think that would tie in more with what Laura was saying about Dumbledore and how he cares a little bit more about the mission, rather than the people involved in the mission, and I think it would just play into how Albus becomes the character that he does become later on in the Harry Potter series. So yeah, I would just be curious to hear what your guys’ thoughts are about that. Love listening to the show. Thanks.”
[Voicemail ends]
Andrew: I also want to issue a correction here: When we had originally played this voicemail – the Fawkes voicemail – a couple weeks ago, the caller had apparently asked if he thought the phoenix went to Credence for Dumbledore, not if Fawkes just showed up out of the blue, so my apologies for misinterpreting that. But I really like this theory.
Laura: Yeah, me too.
Andrew: It could very well be throwing off Grindelwald right now. Albus Dumbledore could be throwing him off.
Micah: I agree. I like it as well, and I think that it would show that much as we know about Dumbledore later on in the Potter series, he’s always working behind the scenes. And we’d like to think from what we saw in Crimes of Grindelwald that Grindelwald is kind of the one that’s doing that, but we shouldn’t second guess Dumbledore at all, and this seems like something he may do.
Andrew: Definitely.
Micah: The one question I do have, though, about all this is how would Grindelwald know the truth about Aurelius Dumbledore? But it didn’t seem like Dumbledore knew the truth about him.
Eric: Yeah. It’s possible that Grindelwald was there when Credence was created or born, I think, maybe at some point. But that raises the question of why he didn’t know he was looking for a boy to begin with in the first Fantastic Beasts film, when he’s there suspecting… Mercy, was her name? Or… Credence’s younger sister. Melody? What was it? I’m trying to think. Does anybody know? Harmony?
Andrew: Melody sounds familiar.
Laura: Not off the top of my head.
Eric: Okay, I’ll look it up. But yeah, so Graves or Grindelwald didn’t really know who the Obscurus was. So it is a point of contention, a confusing thing, that in Movie 2 he knows exactly who Credence is, and seems to claim that it was that way for all time.
Andrew: Modesty.
Eric: Thank you!
Andrew: You were on the right track.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Andrew: M-O. But this all said, I’m still in the “This can’t be a fake-out” camp. I need this to be the truth. I need Aurelius Dumbledore to be Aurelius Dumbledore, for real.
[Voicemail plays]
“Hello, MuggleCast. I’m Arlie. I’m one of your newer listeners, and probably one of your younger ones too. I just turned 14 this Saturday and received a full set of Harry Potter books, so now I can play Quizzitch, because my parents finally said I could have a Twitter account.”
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
“I’ve been listening to you guys for about a month now. I got into Harry Potter YouTube channels a while ago, but I just recently discovered Harry Potter podcasts, and yours is by far my favorite. I just wanted to say thank you for all your hard work and dedication to the podcast, and to let you know that people like you are the reason that the next generation of Harry Potter fans exist, and if you guys put this on the next podcast episode, that would be freaking amazing. Keep up the good work. Bye.”
[Voicemail ends]
Andrew: Look at us, y’all.
Laura: Oh my God. You know what? We could just wrap this episode right here, and I would be totally satisfied with it.
[Everyone laughs]
Laura: That was an amazing voicemail.
Andrew: She was super cute.
Micah: How articulate, too.
Laura: Ah, that’s great.
Eric: What was that caller’s name? I want to see if she entered Quizzitch.
Andrew: Let’s listen again, because I don’t know if she said it.
“Hello, MuggleCast. I’m Arlie.”
Eric and Micah: Arlie.
Micah: You’d better read her name first.
Andrew: [laughs] Thank you, Arlie.
Laura: Arlie, you’re great.
Andrew: She brought up a good point that I really didn’t think about before, and not to pat ourselves on the back, but if you are stepping into the world of Harry Potter for the first time right now, where do you go for an active Harry Potter community? MuggleCast is an active Harry Potter community. I guess a couple of the fansites are too right now, but we’re releasing new stuff every week, baby.
Laura: Yeah, I just love these full circle moments. Because Arlie, when we first started this podcast, we were not much older than you are now…
[Eric laughs]
Laura: … so I just love that here we are in our 30s, and we’ve got new people who were about as old as we were when we started doing this listening. It’s great.
Andrew: You’re in your 30s; I’m in my 20s for another two months.
Micah: Oh, stop.
Andrew: Wow.
Laura: Okay, okay, we’re rounding up a little bit. May is just around the corner.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Andrew: I’m just saying. It’s still March in my calendar. Thank you, Arlie, and we’ve kicked around an idea of doing something with younger listeners. We’re still figuring out what to do with you all, but we’ll figure out something eventually.
[Voicemail plays]
“Hi MuggleCast. This is Robert, longtime listener, second time caller. I just wanted to call in because I had a thought on your recent discussion on Dumbledore’s, I guess, usage of Harry in procuring the Horcrux memory. You mentioned last week – and a couple weeks ago, actually – that what was the point of Dumbledore having to go through this rigmarole with Harry when he already was working towards getting the Horcruxes? What I thought was interesting about Dumbledore’s plan is Dumbledore wasn’t trying to figure out or confirm whether there were Horcruxes in play. He knew that from the time they found the diary, because he confirmed, pretty much, that the diary thinking on its own was a Horcrux. He was just trying to determine the number of Horcruxes, and that’s where that memory comes into play, because it confirms that there are not only more than one Horcruxes, but they’re working towards the number seven, or six. Or seven for real, because Harry is one of them. Anyway, just wanted to throw that out there. I love the show, I love these discussions, and I can’t wait to hear more of them. Thank you.”
[Voicemail ends]
Andrew: It’s a great point. Thank you.
Laura: Yeah, totally.
Andrew: And we’ll discuss that more in today’s Chapter by Chapter. One more voicemail; this is another one that made my day. Somebody with a great experience.
[Voicemail plays]
“Hey, MuggleCast. This is Kimmy calling. I just wanted to share with you guys my experience. I just bought Cursed Child San Francisco tickets, and I’m so excited. I can’t believe I actually got them. I got my priority access link, and I don’t know if you know the… it opened at 11:00 a.m., and I was one minute late. I opened it at 11:01, and there were already over 16,000 people in front of me. So it took me to this online queue, and I’ve been home sick right now, so that’s the only reason I was able to stare at this webpage for so long – I don’t know what other people did – but I was in this line for almost five hours, and I was so worried that they were going to sell out. And when I finally got in, the first date that it let me actually buy tickets for was May of next year, and I don’t even care. I got these tickets. They were way too expensive, and the seats are not good, but I don’t care because I get to go see it. And yeah, I’m just really excited, so I wanted to share with you guys. Thank you so much. You’re my Harry Potter friends, and I love listening to your podcast. So yeah, bye.”
[Voicemail ends]
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Laura: That’s dedication.
Andrew: Yeah, five hour wait for tickets. I thought this was some interesting insight into demand right now. I guess all of the western side of America is looking at this as their chance to finally see Cursed Child.
Eric: Yeah, I mean, if you’re excited, we’re excited for you.
Andrew: And she didn’t sound very sick to me; I think she faked being sick just to get out of work.
[Eric and Micah laugh]
Micah: So she could get tickets?
Laura: Okay, you know what? We all need a mental health day every now and then.
Andrew: Oh, I know, but I’m saying she called… she, you know, [coughs] “I’m so sick” just so she could get the tickets. I mean, there’s nothing wrong with that. I’m just saying.
Micah: Yeah, but definitely let us know how it is.
Andrew: Yeah, I’ll be curious to see how it goes in San Francisco. Maybe that can be your chance to see it, Laura.
Laura: Yeah, because I’m so close to San Francisco.
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: Yeah, I guess you’re closer to New York. Wait in line for ten hours, and you can see it in October 2024.
Laura: There we go.
Andrew: Thanks, everybody who called in today. If you would like to leave us a voicemail, our number is 1-920-3-MUGGLE. 1-920-368-4453. Call in with anything related to Harry Potter; we’d love to hear it. Before we get to Chapter by Chapter, we have a word from this week’s sponsor.
[Ad break]
Chapter by Chapter: Seven-Word Summary
Andrew: All right, it’s time now for Chapter by Chapter. We’re discussing Half-Blood Prince Chapter 20, “Lord Voldemort’s Request,” and as always, we’ll start off with our Seven-Word Summary.
Laura: All right, and I’m first on the Seven-Word Summary this week. Damn you, Andrew.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Laura: Okay, I’ll start it with… Voldemort…
Micah: … tries…
Eric: … again…
Andrew: … to…
Laura: … obtain…
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Micah: … Dumbledore’s…
Eric: This is so nerve-wracking. I want to get it right, you guys.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: I want to get it right. I don’t want to… not respect…
Micah: Just the first…
Eric: … allowance.
Andrew: Allowance? Yeah, that’s good. Okay.
Micah: Like money?
[Laura laughs]
Eric: You know, let’s let people…
Andrew: Allowance to teach at Hogwarts.
Micah: Permission?
Eric: Yeah, like a recruiting ground kind of a thing.
Micah: Okay. That’s fair.
Andrew: Allowance is fine. I accept that.
Laura: When I said “obtain,” I was envisioning that you guys were just going to say “a job.”
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: Yeah, I wanted it to not be “a job.”
Andrew: We really strive to impress here with big words.
Chapter by Chapter: Main Discussion
Andrew: So this chapter is another one of those Dumbledore’s lessons chapters, but at the beginning of it, we’re getting some ship changes. Hermione and Ron are cool again, because Ron and Lavender are falling apart, to Hermione’s delight. And Dean and Ginny are falling apart as well, which, of course, is to Harry’s delight. So things are coming together. But that’s not really the focus of the chapter. We do see the girls that Eric, a few weeks ago, you were talking about, you had pointed out to us, who were actually Crabbe and Goyle under a Polyjuice Potion. But it begs the question: Where is Draco keeping these girls? And how creepy is it that he’s taking their hair so frequently?
Eric: You mean the real girls, whoever…
Andrew: The real girls, yeah.
Eric: I don’t know… I mean, I have so many questions in this book, and most of them are about this.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: It’s never really fully explored. It’s not like… you don’t even get how Crabbe and Goyle feel about this, but they’re spending a lot of time as very young girls. And I think part of it is supposed to be, I don’t know, a body horror aspect of the book, where it’s like these big, bulky, bully boys are spending their time as these tiny little girls. But I guess it’s only played for laughs when Ron kind of… after it’s revealed later, which we’ll cover later. But yeah, I don’t know. I just kind of wish… I’d like a little bit more insight into what exactly is going on here and what Draco is doing, because they don’t have to be little girls. I think maybe that meant that they’re… Draco just thought it would avoid the most suspicion? But they could be Polyjuicing themselves as literally anybody and just randomly standing in the corridors.
Andrew: Maybe Draco gets pleasure out of making Crabbe and Goyle girls. That just seems like a very middle school or high school thing to do to your best friends, if you can call them that.
Laura: I think it’s all about what avoids suspicion, and he’s trying to avoid Polyjuicing other people around their age group because obviously people in their class know who everyone is, and if suddenly their friends are missing and they’re only turning up when they’re in the company of Draco Malfoy, that’ll be a little suspicious. But what I want to know is how does this work logistically? Because presumably these girls are trapped or unconscious somewhere where Draco just goes and harvests their hair for more Polyjuice. How do their teachers not notice them missing from class? There is no way Crabbe and Goyle are attending their own classes as themselves and then these girls’ classes as these girls.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: Right.
Laura: How does this work? Is this another example of how Hogwarts is a safety nightmare? The teachers are like, “Oh, well, Melody and Clarissa aren’t here today, so I guess they’re just in the hospital wing. Whatever. Let’s carry on.”
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: I don’t think the girls need to be captured at all; they can still be going to their classes. Melody and Clarissa are straight A students, and nothing’s going to change that. It’s just Draco took some hair from them. Unless they run into the Crabbe and Goyle posing as them, which would be mildly concerning, they don’t even need to have knowledge of this situation.
Laura: But doesn’t that run the risk of people running into people who are Polyjuices of themselves?
Andrew: It does, but Hogwarts is a big school. And I guess the other question is how long is Draco in the Room of Requirement? How long does he need these lookouts posted there?
Eric: Couple hours at a time. The thing is… and Ron says in this chapter, “I could swear they keep getting smaller,” and it’s just… maybe these aren’t even Hogwarts girls at all. Maybe they’re Muggle girls. You never know.
Laura: Maybe.
Eric: So it’s weird to think about, but it’s just not touched on. And so every time I see this in the book, I’m like, “I’ve got to ask some questions about this,” because…
Micah: Does it say what House they’re in?
Eric: Slytherin, I think. I think they have Slytherin robes at one point or another.
Micah: Yeah, well, if that’s the case, then Draco could easily coerce them into providing some of their hair, as creepy as that sounds.
[Laura shudders]
Micah: Or maybe it’s…
Eric: Isn’t he Head Boy as well?
Andrew: “Hey, lady.”
Laura: How does that conversation work? He just saddles up to them in the common room, like, “Hey, can I have some of your hair?”
Micah: Maybe it’s Pansy, or one of the other female Slytherin students who are able to convince them.
Eric: Oh.
Micah: Or maybe she goes into the girl’s bathroom and just kind of unclogs the sink and…
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: Eugh. I was going to say, just grab the comb.
Micah: Yeah, or grabs their comb.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: Anyway, that’s the girl update. We’ll check in with them maybe in the chapters ahead.
Eric: I read this chapter using these audiobooks on YouTube from a guy called dedd_inside…
Andrew: That’s me.
Eric: [laughs] Isn’t it us all?
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: But they bring up this question – because Luna shows up and gives Harry the little slip of paper that says for him to go visit Dumbledore – is that really smart? I want to credit dedd_inside and Demi Bobemi, his cohost, for bringing this up. Ron just got poisoned because he was given some wine randomly. Katie Bell was just given a random necklace. And Harry sees Luna with this piece of paper, and he’s like, “Oh, give me,” and grabs it right from her. Is that secure? Is it safe? Is it smart for Dumbledore to still be communicating in this way? Should Harry be a little scrutinized? I wanted to get your guys’ thoughts on that.
Micah: It’s a piece of paper.
Andrew: Yeah, it’s just paper, and Luna is one of Harry’s more trusted friends, I think, not as random as Katie Bell. So I don’t know. But yeah, I think it’s just… what are you going to do? Avoid touching any single object at this point?
Eric: Right.
Andrew: That’s impossible. You accidentally pick up a book or something in one of your classrooms, and it’s cursed. I don’t know.
Eric: Yeah. I did just always think it was interesting, because I mean, it’s not like Dumbledore hangs out with Luna a whole heck of a lot more than he would Harry, so how is it that she got that piece of paper? You know what I’m saying?
Andrew: Yeah, yeah.
Eric: So very interesting.
Andrew: So he does get this note. It doesn’t kill him, so he makes it to Dumbledore’s office…
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: … and we find out that the staffing issue going on is that Trelawney hates Firenze, and Firenze can’t be sent back to the forest because now he’s an outcast, having come work for the humans. And Dumbledore thinks that Trelawney couldn’t make it in the outside world, because she’s threatening to leave. So I’m wondering why this is exactly. We know Trelawney is pretty kooky. Is that why? I’m just picturing her being like Queenie out in the open. It’s sensory overload, she’s hearing all these voices, and it’ll just drive her crazy until one of Voldemort’s assistants shows up and makes her drink tea.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: Why does Dumbledore think she couldn’t handle the outside world?
Laura: Well, he brings up the point that she doesn’t know that she’s actually the one who made the prophecy about Harry and Voldemort, and that would endanger her outside the walls of the castle.
Andrew: People would try to capture her to learn this prophecy?
Laura: I think she would be a direct target for Voldemort.
Andrew and Eric: Yeah.
Laura: I feel like that’s the implication.
Eric: Much like Slughorn, for instance, is… we hear that he’s being targeted by Death Eaters. They want him. He knows about the Horcruxes; he would be in great danger if he wasn’t at Hogwarts. And Trelawney would be, I think, in even greater danger; Voldemort might try and extract the prophecy to hear the full part because he never got to hear the full part. Even though she doesn’t specifically remember it, maybe it’s still in there somewhere. There’s got to be some things you could do to get that out of her. So yeah, just Trelawney would be in an immense amount of danger. And Dumbledore is kind of very carefully playing these teachers against each other. He’s just kind of allowing this rivalry to exist, because it is truly for everybody’s good, her racist comments about the nag aside.
Micah: Which I still don’t understand. Is that just inherent in her as a person? You can understand her being upset with somebody else coming in and teaching the same subject that she’s teaching, but is it just purely because Firenze is a centaur, and she doesn’t like the idea of him teaching because he’s a beast, and that diminishes, maybe, the effectiveness of what she’s trying to teach?
Eric: Maybe. I mean, anybody who’s anybody should know there’s multiple levels of Divination, multiple styles. I mean, if she’s really good at teaching or after the pursuit of knowledge, or after really imparting knowledge on young’ins, she should welcome an alternate take. They could be besties, really, about the whole thing.
Micah: Right.
Eric: But I’m going to go with Harry’s interpretation at times, that Trelawney really got off on scaring people, and really loved making him feel like he was going to die. I mean, she really does lay that on pretty thick in Book 3. Part of her really believes that she is seeing what she’s really seeing, and then the other part, I think, secretly thrills in being a little over the top. So when somebody who comes who can actually do the job, i.e. Firenze – his entire culture is based on star worshiping, star gazing, and Divination – she’s threatened, and that’s all it is. She’s being racist because she’s being threatened, not overtly, but inadvertently, and it’s just a sad situation.
Andrew: And I think anybody in her position would feel threatened if a second teacher came in to do what she was doing. We don’t see duplicate or multiple Potions teachers, or Defense Against the Dark Arts teachers. There’s always only one.
Laura: Yeah, and I think also this is just another reflection of the real world, in that people are always sort of xenophobic and afraid that outsiders are going to come in and take their jobs. It’s a very common narrative.
Andrew: So the meeting begins between Dumbledore and Harry, and Dumbledore shames Harry for not being able to successfully retrieve the memory from Slughorn. And this is an interesting moment, because J.K. Rowling writes how Dumbledore calmly shames him. He’s just very cool when he does it. But it also feels like a stab in the heart to Harry, because it’s just… he’s so patient with it. Harry says that he would rather Dumbledore be mean. I don’t think I have ever experienced someone in the real world calmly shaming me. Anyone else?
Laura: Yeah, this is totally a teacher move. When you’ve communicated to a student the importance of something that you need them to do, and then they show up in your office and they haven’t done the thing, and they start making excuses about being busy with this and that, you kind of just sit there and stare at them and blink, and then you start by being like, “Okay, I understand that you have these things. However, we talked about this; you understand why it’s important, so can we go ahead and make that a priority?”
[Eric laughs]
Laura: And I think Dumbledore was a little extra about it here. I think he laid it on a little thick. But as a former teacher, I can say this is a thing. As somebody who had professors in college with whom I had very close working relationships, I’ve also been on the other side of that. So it’s a thing. It’s painful. [laughs]
Micah: It did seem a little bit too much, though, on the part of Dumbledore. I think that he doesn’t take into consideration everything that Harry has been through in the last couple of weeks since their last meeting, and Harry even kind of rattles them off. He almost had his best friend die at his feet, he’s had his head smashed in, he’s been in the hospital, and he’s also been trying to track down Draco and see what he’s up to, because Dumbledore hasn’t given him any information there either.
Eric: Right.
Micah: So I actually tend to side with Harry here, particularly because of the next point that’s raised, is that if Dumbledore really wants this memory, he should do it himself. There’s no way that somebody like Slughorn, for as powerful as he may be, how talented he may be, that he could withstand Dumbledore.
Andrew: Right. That’s what’s so frustrating to me in this moment. Dumbledore just goes out of his way, like, “Oh, you had all these other things going on, and you didn’t prioritize what I’m asking. Huh, very interesting.” Dumbledore, get off your butt and do it! You’re the most powerful wizard of all time! You’re also one of the most clever. You could figure it out.
Eric: Yeah, and it’s a heck of a lofty perch for him to be on when he’s actively… the other things Harry is worrying about, like Draco, he could solve for him. Dumbledore knows exactly what’s going on with Draco, and he’s not telling Harry because he thinks it would get in the way of Harry retrieving this memory or something. But it just… all the other… Dumbledore is responsible for a lot of Harry’s problems, as usual, and to chastise him so heavily… and basically, he’s silent. Dumbledore is guarding his warmth from Harry. He’s literally locking his warmth toward Harry in a vault until Harry gets so uncomfortable and so squirmy that Harry has to say, “Professor Dumbledore, I’m really sorry. I should have done more. I should have realized you wouldn’t have asked me to do it if it wasn’t really important.” Which is a direct quote. And then he says, “Thank you for saying that, Harry. Let’s move on.” And it’s just like, “Come on, dude. Really? You just…” That’s manipulation.
Laura: I mean, we have established this: Dumbledore is very manipulative. And I think you guys perfectly illustrated how Dumbledore is sort of the puppet master in this whole situation. He has decided how he wants things to go and who he wants to do what, and he will not budge on those things. I do wonder, though, why does it have to be Harry? And I was thinking about this the other night, and I got to the conclusion, maybe this is how Dumbledore sees the only way to sort of get Harry’s buy-in on this whole situation, especially knowing that Harry is going to have to sacrifice himself soon in order to defeat Voldemort. He’s known this for quite some time, and maybe this is just a stepping stone Dumbledore sees in order to make Harry fully committed to the mission that he doesn’t even know he has yet.
Eric: That’s a really interesting point.
Andrew: It’s also just training Harry to take on some tough tasks. Obviously, he’s faced some tough battles so far, but Dumbledore just wants to keep up that pace, maybe, of giving him these challenges. So moving along here… lost my place in the doc. I was Instagramming a photo of our livestream.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Micah: It’s Dumbledore lesson time, according to you.
Andrew: Yes, thank you. So we learn that Voldemort, in this scene, asked then Hogwarts headmaster, Professor Dippet, if he could be a DADA teacher at the school, and Dumbledore believes he wanted to build himself an army. Now, Dippet, interestingly, actually liked Voldemort, but turned down the offer at Dumbledore’s insistence because he was too young.
Eric: Hmm. Yeah.
Andrew: And Laura, I think…?
Laura: Yeah, I have a question for everyone here: What if Dumbledore was wrong? I’m not saying he was, but let’s just imagine for a moment what if he was. How might the course of history have been changed if Tom had been allowed to teach at Hogwarts? We know that Tom Riddle really felt like Hogwarts was his family; it was the only thing he had any kind of emotional connection to, and what if having that need satisfied by filling a job posting at Hogwarts would have avoided this whole debacle? It kind of reminds me of an episode of The Twilight Zone, like, “What if Hitler had been accepted to art school?” What would have happened?
Andrew: [laughs] So are we putting aside the fact that Voldemort was already recruiting followers? And he wanted to teach…?
Laura: Yeah. No, I mean, we can still consider all of that; I just wonder what could have been different. Could his course have changed? I feel like this whole series is sort of based on the idea that it’s really our choices that matter, and you can choose to sort of acquiesce to your darker tendencies, or you can choose not to, as Dumbledore does, right? Dumbledore has a really dark past, and he’s made some big mistakes, but he has chosen to rise above that. And I guess I just wonder if given the opportunity, could Tom Riddle have had that same potential? Maybe not. It’s just interesting to me that Dumbledore sort of makes these unilateral decisions and will not budge.
Andrew: Changes the course of somebody’s life. I think you’re right; I suppose there was a chance, because maybe he could have taught at Hogwarts, and maybe he would be looking at these students and be like, “Wow, I have a real opportunity here to take a better path.” And I think we’ve all made choices in our lives that have dramatically impacted where we are today. Luckily, it didn’t affect MuggleCast.
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: So yeah, I think he could have been on a better path, but I guess Dumbledore just saw the chances of that happening being way too slim.
Laura: Yeah, I mean, obviously the potential was there for things to go very bad. I just think this is another example of Dumbledore sort of being the puppet master and really just kind of closing people into boxes, almost, like, “You will do this,” or “You will not do this.”
Eric: Yeah, Dumbledore is operating under the assumption that he is 100% right, even when some of his senior peers are totally in love with Tom Riddle. He knows that he is correct and that Tom Riddle would only be a bad thing to happen to the school, and I believe that if he were allowed to teach, he would pretty soon be taking kids down to the Chamber of Secrets, which only he knows really exists or where it is, and doing special lessons and basically recruitment training down in his own secret chamber. It’s a very good thing, to me, that Tom was not allowed to stay at Hogwarts. But on the other hand, the immediate result of if he were allowed to teach at Hogwarts is he would never have met Hepzibah Smith and found his mother’s locket and found the Hufflepuff cup, because she really told very, very few people about that, and it would have just stayed within her family, I think, for probably several generations, and those heavy, huge Hogwarts artifacts would not have become Horcruxes.
Micah: And there’s definitely parallels, though, Eric, between what you just said with the potential for Voldemort to operate within Hogwarts and go down to the Chamber and use it as a recruitment area. Harry does the exact same thing with the Room of Requirement for the Order of the Phoenix, or for Dumbledore’s Army.
Laura: Yep.
Micah: And I think that going back to the point of choices that Laura brought up, with choices, probably one of the bigger ones, too, is with Voldemort choosing Harry over Neville, and how that could have impacted the course of the story. But even Dumbledore’s choices… I think Dumbledore could have had a way more practiced hand in, really, the growth of Tom Riddle, and he chose not to, and I wonder if that was because of his own past experiences with the Deathly Hallows and Grindelwald and his life experiences, because Dumbledore probably could have helped to prevent a lot of what Tom Riddle does. Because I think by this point where we see him going after the Defense Against the Dark Arts job, he’s already done things that are unforgivable, right? We’re talking about the Chamber of Secrets. You’re talking about the murder of his uncle, and there are things that you can’t change and can’t go back. And I think that had Dumbledore intervened earlier, maybe – maybe not – but I think maybe there was a chance that it could have changed the course of Tom’s time at Hogwarts and who he grew to be.
Andrew: We spoke about this during a previous flashback scene, I think, when Dumbledore visited Tom in the orphanage, and I think we concluded that – well, at least I was saying – that Dumbledore just saw a very troubled child who was already past the point of no return. He was going to be who he was going to be.
Laura: Yeah, with Tom Riddle, it always boils down to the nature versus nurture debate.
Eric: Right.
Laura: And it’s really tough to say. I mean, at face value, I think we’re supposed to accept that Tom Riddle was past the point of redemption even as a child, but we’re only seeing a lot of this through Dumbledore’s lens, which lends us to believe what Dumbledore himself believed, or how he perceived it. And it would be very interesting to get a different perspective on that.
Eric: Yeah, I kind of like the idea that it was just too painful for Dumbledore personally to interact with Tom on a closer level than what he did, that maybe Dumbledore was trying to resist the same temptation that he felt whenever he was with Grindelwald, in terms of talking about some of the darker aspects of magic. Maybe Dumbledore is closer than we could ever guess to being a Dark wizard, but he, as sort of a rejection, never allowed himself to get close to Tom for fear of being tempted back into doing Dark magic or something.
Andrew: I think it also has to do with being born out of that love potion. Dumbledore may have just seen… that’s one reason why he was convinced early on that he was going nowhere good. But moving along here, Voldemort does end up bad, and he gets a job at Borgin and Burke, where he tried to buy treasures with unusual and powerful properties. As part of his job, we learn that he went to Hepzibah Smith’s residence, and we get this from Hokey the house-elf’s memory. [laughs] And Voldemort is there to try and buy goblin-made armor, but Hepzibah has different plans. She shows him two of her most prized possessions; they are the Slytherin locket and Helga Hufflepuff’s cup. Both wield great powers – powers, by the way, that we don’t really learn about. I went looking, and we hear that they have powers, but we just don’t see anything. Am I right on that?
Eric: I mean, you’re right…
Andrew: Anybody else find anything?
Micah: I just think it’s because of who they belonged to originally. You’re talking about the founders of Hogwarts, so maybe naturally, they come with certain powers.
Andrew: Right, we just don’t know what those are. That’s what I mean.
Eric: You know what? Guys, I’ve solved the problem by going directly to the source, Pottermore.com.
Andrew: Oh, love Pottermore.
Eric: Yeah, under “Explore the story: Helga Hufflepuff’s cup.” It says, “Helga Hufflepuff’s cup, a small, golden cup that once belonged to Helga Hufflepuff. It was stolen and made into a Horcrux by Lord Voldemort.” Okay. Type: It’s a Horcrux. Magical Properties: Here we go. You guys ready?
Andrew: Brings Lavender Brown back to life.
Eric: I know, I know, I know. “Said to possess several powers, yet these were not thoroughly tested.”
Laura: What?
Andrew: That’s it?!
Micah: Well, that’s specific.
Andrew: That wasn’t an answer, Eric!
Eric: That’s directly from this chapter in the book, where Hepzibah is like, “I haven’t tested…”
Andrew: Potterless!
Eric: [laughs] Potterless.
Andrew: Potter-nothing. Potter-no-more.
Eric: So Pottermore has taken directly from the notion that Hepzibah did not herself test any of the rumored magical properties, but yeah, I guess we never know. I mean, I wanted to ask you guys what you thought a magic cup would do. Would it refill itself? Would it give the drinker long life?
Micah: Unlimited wine?
Eric: Is it the Holy Grail?
Andrew: Oh, yeah, like a good old-fashioned bottomless drink. That’s what it offers you.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: On Sundays, it’s a bottomless mimosa. On Mondays, it’s bottomless water.
Eric: Or coffee. I’m thinking of something a little bit more special-magical, though, like fountain of youth or something a bit creative.
Andrew: Yeah, it’s probably something more like that.
Micah: So one of the questions that I had about this particular scene in the chapter: Do we think that it was just reoccurring visits that Tom paid to Hepzibah that sort of endeared him to her? Was it just the fact that she was this older woman who probably liked the fact that she had company from time to time? Or do we think maybe he enchanted her a bit, put a spell or two on her to get her to be as forthcoming as she was?
Andrew: I didn’t get the impression…
Laura: The impression… sorry, the impression I got from the chapter was that she was so delighted and flattered to have the attentions of a younger man, even in this context, that she would have been willing to show him anything…
Micah: Anything?
[Everyone laughs]
Laura: … that might keep him around. She’s clearly… before he even gets there, she’s making – Hokey, it is, right? – help her get dressed up, and she’s putting on makeup and rouging her cheeks and all of these other things. So there’s definitely an element to that there. It is interesting. I feel like it’s an interesting parallel to when Dumbledore went to the orphanage and had to gin up the owner of the orphanage in order to get information about Tom Riddle.
Eric: Ohh.
Laura: And yet, Tom Riddle is just so naturally good at this himself, he’s his own gin. He is gin.
[Eric and Micah laugh]
Micah: Tom Riddle is gin. RiddleGin, that’s the name of the episode.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Micah: No, but even Harry mentions the good looks that Tom has, and it seems like it’s a recurring theme that he utilizes that to his advantage in a number of situations that we see.
Andrew and Eric: Yeah.
Eric: He’s a flatterer. I like to believe also that he didn’t use any special magic, because I believe that ultimately, Hokey is a good house-elf, and would detect a sort of persuasion charm or something on her master. So I like to think that Hokey would spot and stop some of that nonsense as part of her duty if Tom Riddle were anything but at face value what he was, a handsome young man who is paying a lot of attention and picking up on… you know, all women really want is a good listener. He brings her flowers, and she loves flowers, so I think he’s got her number, and it’s just unfortunate, but through time… Laura, what you said about her getting all rouged up and stuff and showing her possessions, I think it’s because she knows that this is the big sale that he has been sent there to make from Borgin, the goblin-made armor or whatever, and that if he completes that sale today, as I’m assuming she knew he would, then he would never see her again, so maybe she’s putting in the extra effort to keep him around, and that’s why she makes her fatal flaw. She wants him to keep coming back, and he will come back, but he’s going to come back to kill her.
Micah: So he then takes the same approach with Hokey and Hepzibah that he did with Morfin and the rest of his family, and just continues to be very disturbing. We learn that he likely killed Hepzibah and altered Hokey’s memory, so that Hokey at least thinks in part that she’s responsible for Hepzibah’s death, and the locket and the cup disappear, Tom disappears from his job at Borgin and Burke, and that kind of leads us into the next memory with Dumbledore and Voldemort. I thought this was cool; no longer does Tom, except when Dumbledore is talking to him, exist. Now we’re starting to see almost a young Voldemort sitting across from Dumbledore in this office.
Andrew: And what’s creepy about it is that this is still a Voldemort who can be out and about, and as a reader, you just want to scream, “Oh my God, it’s Voldemort! He’s just there! Why aren’t you doing anything?” So we do step into his memory, and as Micah says… it’s great; Dumbledore is refusing to call Tom by his new name, and it’s just so badass. And there are a couple of interesting moments here that I want to read. This first one, Voldemort says to Dumbledore, “I have seen and done much since I left this place. I could show and tell your students things they can gain from no other wizard.” Dumbledore replies, “I certainly do know that you have seen and done much… Rumors have reached Hogwarts… I should be very sorry to believe half of them.” So right here, Tom should realize, “I’m not getting this teaching job.” But he persists anyway, which is interesting to me. Why would Voldemort think Dumbledore could give him a role at Hogwarts after he knows that Voldemort has been up to no good?
Micah: It was always my thought with this particular moment that he’s in search for something of Gryffindor’s.
Eric: Like the sword?
Andrew: Maybe the sword.
Micah: Yeah, we’ve seen now the memory with Hufflepuff’s cup; we’ve seen the locket come into play from Slytherin. It was always my belief that in this moment he was looking for maybe the Sorting Hat or the sword. And there’s a moment at the end of the chapter, too, where it’s really unclear what’s happening, but doesn’t he say something or mutter something under his breath? I don’t know if that’s him cursing the position or what have you, but I always felt like there was other intentions of him being in the office with Dumbledore.
Laura: Yeah, I agree. I thought it was either to place the… what was it? It was Rowena Ravenclaw’s.
Eric: The diadem.
Laura: Yeah, the diadem in the Room of Requirement, I think as you have mentioned later here in the notes, or to try and obtain something else. I don’t think Tom Riddle was stupid enough to think Dumbledore would actually give him the job.
Andrew: Yeah. I also wonder if Dumbledore was considering what the parents would think if he let Voldemort teach at the school, because surely those rumors are going all over the wizarding world. He doesn’t mention that, though, but I think that would be important.
Eric: Yeah, I think the whole meeting is a ruse, but I can’t deny that this scene, their banter between each other, these men at opposite sides of the spectrum of how they think magic should be used, it’s banter worthy of a heavily scripted TV series. I want to see this scene adapted so well. Voldemort looking for the first time inhuman with bloodshot eyes, rallying these arguments at Dumbledore, and Dumbledore kind of keeping them at bay. They’re sparring with words, and it’s really, really well-written.
Laura: Yeah. I will say, as I was rereading this, I found myself disappointed that we never got to see this in the films.
Andrew and Micah: Yeah.
Micah: Both this scene and the one with Hepzibah, and even going back to the Gaunts, I feel like that helped really inform the Horcrux story a lot more, especially when you get to Deathly Hallows and more so even Part 2 where they’re going after these Horcruxes, where there’s not a whole lot of context being provided as to why they’re going after the cup. Yeah, it’s in Bellatrix’s vault, but it’s almost like Harry has to go there and then sense it before he can figure out what it is and then destroy it. And then the same goes with the diadem, when he has that bit of a flash and he’s inside Voldemort’s mind, and he can see the Grey Lady, and he knows he needs to go to Hogwarts. This would have set it up, I think, a lot better. There’s a lot of rich story here, and I was also disappointed that none of it made the films.
Eric: I mean, I can just see Michael Gambon’s Dumbledore backing young Tom Riddle up against a trophy case.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: [imitating Michael Gambon] “Do you really want to teach here? Do you really? Tell me!”
Laura: He said calmly.
Andrew: And this line, “Why not try an open request for once, Tom?” I mean, at this point, any pleasantries are just totally out the window. It’s just such a very raw scene. Love it. Another line I wanted to mention… like I said, the pleasantries are gone, and Voldemort says, “Nothing I have seen in the world has supported your famous pronouncement that love is more powerful than my kind of magic.” Is this thought a result of being born from a love potion? Is this a reminder to the reader that that love potion has just completely deprived him from even seeing love? Which I think would be interesting.
Eric: I don’t know. I just think he tends to… at this point, he’s so far along, Voldemort is, that he’s gotten results by doing something that’s very clearly the opposite of love, like murdering people. So I think that he’s just… Voldemort’s specific path that he’s on has nothing to do with the kinds of love that Dumbledore is talking about, and so Dumbledore can rub it in his face that he’s ignorant about it and all that. And we know Dumbledore is kind of right in the end at times, but for right now, Voldemort is getting the results he wants his way, and nothing else in the world matters to him.
Laura: I also think it’s because – again, choices – Voldemort has chosen to put his focus on mastering death, and when that’s your focus, I don’t think there’s much room for love. [laughs]
Andrew: Yeah. So in this whole scene, really, Dumbledore is one step ahead of Tom. He knows he brought men with him; he knows his followers are called Death Eaters; he knows that Tom doesn’t want to return to Hogwarts to become a teacher in all reality. And by the way, Dumbledore says, “I’ve got my… I know the local barman.” This is the latest reference to Aberforth before Harry knows that’s where Aberforth is. There’s been a mention or two of Aberforth previously, but still doesn’t know what Aberforth is currently up to.
Micah: It also shows that Dumbledore has been keeping tabs on Voldemort for quite some time, and that can even make a lot of this even more troubling from the sense that he doesn’t do anything about it. He lets it continue.
Andrew and Eric: Yeah.
Eric: He’s allowing Voldemort to make his choices because he values choice so much. My big thing is he specifically… not only does Dumbledore reveal that he’s been keeping tabs on Voldemort, but he can directly name the Death Eaters that are with him in the pub. Nott, Rosier, Mulciber, Dolohov. I’m wondering how the heck he can do that, because Aberforth… it really questions Aberforth’s involvement, whether Aberforth would recognize those students by name, which I don’t know how Aberforth possibly would. Or I thought of a new canon thing, which is you know how in the Crimes of Grindelwald movie, they have that security camera footage type spell where you can look through a portal and see something like it’s CCTV? Maybe Aberforth installed one of those in his bar, and so Dumbledore just takes one look and is like, “Oh, yeah, that’s Mulciber.” Because I don’t know how otherwise they’re getting this information, and I think it also puts Aberforth at great risk. Voldemort is so furious with Dumbledore – he, I guess, doesn’t realize enough – but he knew their specific names, which means he has a spy in the bar. Aberforth is possibly in trouble here.
Micah: It’s actually his goat that communicates the information back to Dumbledore.
[Andrew bleats]
[Laura laughs]
Micah: Exactly. But one other thing I was going to say about this – again, comparing it back, in this case, to Order of the Phoenix – is this is not unlike Aberforth spying on Dumbledore’s Army and passing information back to his brother.
Andrew: Yeah. So to wrap this chapter up, Harry says, “Well, what is Voldemort after?” And Dumbledore says, “You’ll find out later,” so making him wait a little longer. As Laura touched on, might have been going after the diadem, or just potentially searching for new Horcruxes, like Micah said. Maybe the Sorting Hat, maybe the Sword of Gryffindor.
Micah: So why does Harry still not ask Dumbledore what a Horcrux is?
Eric: Ugh.
Andrew: Because… well, it hasn’t been really brought up too often. There were a couple mentions previously. I don’t know. It’s just not in the… he doesn’t realize how important they are yet, I guess. Is that it?
Micah: But he has Hermione trying to do a little research.
Andrew: Right. Well, did you really want him to ask? Because we know what Dumbledore would say. “You’ll find out later.”
Eric: “Find the memory.”
Andrew: And that too. [laughs]
Micah: “Next time, Harry.”
Eric: Well, yeah, no. I mean, Harry internalizes… Harry correctly guesses that he will find out what they are when he gets Slughorn’s memory, but he could totally… it would be fair of him to ask Dumbledore first before getting the memory; he just won’t, which is a shame.
Andrew: So I thought we could play a little game here. So poor Voldemort; he just wants a job at Hogwarts. He’s wanted it for so long, and Dumbledore, Mr. Puppet Master, is like, “No, you’re destined for a life of horrible things. I won’t give you a chance. I won’t let you try to change your path.” I thought we could pick a role for him at Hogwarts. If he couldn’t be Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher, what could he be? What do you think, Laura?
Laura: I think he could be the official Hogwarts tour guide. He knows more about the castle’s secrets than everyone. He could take you down to the Chamber of Secrets, introduce you to the Basilisk, show you how weird the bathrooms at Hogwarts are…
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Laura: … the fact that they lead to this chamber. He knows all of the secret entrances in and out of the castle. He’s like evil Fred and George…
[Andrew and Micah laugh]
Laura: … so he can show you all of the just most terrible parts of Hogwarts Castle, and I think people would be very interested in that.
Andrew: How about you, Micah? Give him a role.
Micah: I’m going to give him the role of caretaker.
Andrew: Okay.
Micah: See ya, Filch.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: And the reason being, there would never be any students out of bed or BS games being played with Voldemort as the caretaker.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: Because he’d kill them?
Micah: Well, I think he would just put the fear of God in them.
Andrew: [laughs] Fear of God.
Micah: The castle would be clean and orderly, and Tom would run a tight ship, and honestly, Dumbledore could use the help.
[Eric laughs]
Micah: We’ve talked a lot on this podcast about how Dumbledore is just running… I don’t even… a circus. It’s a circus.
Andrew: A security nightmare. Yeah, it’s a mess. It’s really shameful.
Micah: And even Tom compliments him in this chapter on the fact that he’s been given the role of headmaster. But yeah, he’s caretaker. Except no Mrs. Norris; I don’t think he’d like Mrs. Norris very much.
Eric: I’m going to go a different direction, and this is kind of a Star Trek-y job, but here it is: Chief Morale Officer. I want to see Tom Riddle finding people around Hogwarts who are not having a good day, and just try and cheer them up and make their day better. And I wrote that over time, he will find his humanity after doing this enough, because it kind of makes you feel good, making others feel good, and I think that he will discover the magic that love can provide. So if Dumbledore was like, “No, you can’t do DADA, but here, you’re going to go cheer people up who are having a bad day,” Voldemort would resist at first, but I think over time, he would be a changed man.
Andrew: So even though I came up with the segment, I couldn’t come up with a very strong answer. I’m going to say silent Defense Against the Dark Arts assistant. So let him be the teacher’s assistant, where he’s maybe helping out in the classroom, but he doesn’t get to talk, because if he spoke, he’d probably be recruiting kids.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: I feel like, kind of throw him a line, but don’t let him go all the way. Call his bluff. “If you really want to be the teacher, okay, let’s start you as the teacher’s assistant. And by the way, don’t say a word in that classroom.”
Micah: What I do find interesting about all of this, though, is it does remind me again about Order of the Phoenix, right? Because the Ministry is so concerned that Dumbledore is using Hogwarts as a recruiting ground to have students rise up against the Ministry…
Andrew: Oh, yeah. [laughs]
Micah: … and that’s more likely than not what Voldemort would have done had he had the opportunity, and I would say, rise up against Dumbledore, rise up against the Ministry, but in a really, really bad kind of way.
Andrew: So I didn’t mention this: We do find out the big twist at the end of this chapter is that Voldemort cursed the Defense Against the Dark Arts position, and it’s been cursed ever since then.
Eric: Amazing.
Andrew: Potentially broken when Voldemort died. I guess that would be the case.
Eric: Oh, yeah. But how cool is this twist? This is something that clearly was in the cards since the beginning of the series, or at the very least, J.K. Rowling maybe at first was like, “We’re going to do a new Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher to shake things up each year, make each year different,” but over time, it morphs into this whole explanation that Voldemort cursed it. How awesome is that? And it’s so awesome that the chapter just ends with that, with Dumbledore saying, “You see, we have never been able to keep a Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher for longer than a year since I refused the post to Lord Voldemort.”
Andrew: And Dumbledore knew about this curse and still kept hiring teachers? What did he think would happen to each of these teachers at the end of each year?
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Eric: Half of them die!
Andrew: Yeah, so why…? Do these teachers know going in that it’s cursed? How many people know that this is cursed? It’s a little disturbing.
Eric: How forthcoming is he about this?
Micah: Right, and what year does he curse this position?
Eric: I mean, ’81? ’83?
Andrew: Yeah, that sounds about right.
Micah: It’s a lot of teachers. And why isn’t Dumbledore powerful enough to reverse the curse?
Eric: Maybe it’s Dark magic Dumbledore doesn’t touch, or something like that. I don’t know.
Andrew: Or maybe he has tried; it’s just been unsuccessful.
Eric: My question is… this magic of cursing a DADA position, something as vague as you’re not going to have a teacher for longer than a year, is remarkably powerful at altering probability, altering the very laws of nature, of the course of history. Whether it’s parents are going to out their werewolf teacher and not want the werewolf to teach their kids, or whether our last Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher got carried away into a forest by centaurs, never to return. All this other stuff is so blanket powerful that it reminds me a lot of the kind of magic behind Felix Felicis. Felix Felicis can make it so that bullets luckily don’t hit you that are being fired at you – or whatever, spells – and it’s kind of the same thing, I think, somehow.
Laura: It’s a good point.
Eric: Yeah, it just reminds me of how vast and unexplored a lot of these areas of magic are, even in the seven Harry Potter books.
Rename the Chapter
Andrew: Let’s rename the chapter now. Mine is just a play on the Cursed Child: Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince Chapter 20, “The Cursed Position.”
[Eric laughs]
Micah: Harry Potter the Half-Blood Prince Chapter 20, “Hepzibah’s House of Horcruxes.”
Andrew: I love that one so much.
Micah: Thank you.
Eric: I gave Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince Chapter 20, “50 Shades of Red Eyes.”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Laura: And I did Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince Chapter 20, “A Disappointing Job Interview.”
Andrew: [laughs] Ever have one of those, Laura?
Laura: Oh, yeah. Haven’t we all?
MVP of the Week
Andrew: And now our MVP of the Week. What’s yours, Eric? Who’s yours, Eric?
Eric: Armando Dippet, because he’s there in the background; he kind of seems to be a little puppet-y of Dumbledore, but he’s my MVP because he’s so disposable that he’s not in Crimes of Grindelwald at all. Ministry officials board Hogwarts, and he’s not there to be seen to fend them off. It’s all Dumbledore’s show. So I’m like, “Dippet, you’re either the most important, too important to deal with that kind of stuff, or not important at all.” So shout-out to Dippet for doing what Dumbledore wants anyway, and then being out of the picture the rest of the way.
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: I said Dumbledore, for being the only person on the Hogwarts staff to be creeped out by Tom Riddle.
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: Regardless of whether or not you think Riddle had the potential to be redeemed, he’s a super creepy dude, and nobody else seems to see this.
Micah: I went with Hokey.
Andrew: Really, though?
Micah: Yeah, really.
Andrew: Why?
Micah: She’s busting her ass around Hepzibah’s house…
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Micah: … and she ends up taking the fall for something that she didn’t do.
Andrew: What a name for a house-elf as well. And mine is Aberforth, for just being a spy at the bar and clueing Dumbledore in to what Voldemort is up to. I mean, it’s really important info. My MVP this week is actually kind of a serious choice for once. So that was Chapter 20 of Half-Blood Prince. Next week, we will discuss Chapter 21, so if you have any feedback about this week’s discussion or next week’s chapter, please write in – MuggleCast@gmail.com – or call us – 1-920-368-4453 – or use the contact form on MuggleCast.com.
Quizzitch
Andrew: It’s time now for Quizzitch. I know we have at least one young listener who is looking to play on Twitter, Eric.
Eric: Ah, but I could not find any proof that Arlie had played this week, unfortunately.
Andrew: She’s still learning Twitter, I think, maybe. [laughs]
Eric: Yeah, yeah, I think so. But nevertheless, [laughs] last week’s Quizzitch question was: What time does Tom Riddle visit Hepzibah Smith, does he call upon her? And the correct answer is 4:00 p.m. It’s four o’clock, and Hepzibah, in her memory, is getting ready – rushing, rushing – and right at four on the dot, Tom rings the doorbell. So correct answers were gotten by Pranvi, Fluffy McNutters, Sara Weensie, Vanessa Cho, Sarah Davis, and Retta Gambo. And Vanessa actually added the military time, or 24-hour clock time, 16:00, in their answer.
Andrew: Wow, bonus points.
Eric: [laughs] Special dispensation bonus points to Vanessa.
Andrew: I hate late appointments. Who wants to do anything at 4:00 p.m.? I’m ready to wrap things up.
Eric: [laughs] And this next week’s question, of course, comes from the next chapter, “The Unknowable Room,” when answers are revealed. Since we’ve been talking about Defense Against the Dark Arts a lot, I have a DADA question: How many points does Harry lose for being late to Defense Against the Dark Arts class in the next chapter? And submit your answer to us over Twitter. At reply us – MuggleCast – use hashtag #Quizzitch, which may be why I can’t find Arlie’s. Arlie, be sure to use hashtag #Quizzitch on Twitter.
Andrew: You know what a hashtag is?
Eric: It’s a little pound.
Andrew: It’s that thing that looks like some lines crossing all over each other. It’s next to the @ key. It’s next to the number… it’s part of the number 3 key, okay?
Micah: She probably knows better than any of us.
Andrew: Probably. Kids these days.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: Remember when it was called the pound sign?
Eric: Yes.
Andrew: All right. So hey, please follow us on our new Instagram account, Instagram.com/MuggleCastPod. Like I said, we are going to start ramping up our social media presence. We’re going to be giving you clips from each show that you can listen to right within your social media feeds, and we’re hoping we will be reaching new listeners this way. It’s also just great to be where all the kids are. So Instagram.com/MuggleCastPod. I posted a photo, y’all, of your smiling faces just about a half hour ago.
Eric: You’re going to make me follow MuggleCastPod on Instagram, aren’t you?
Andrew: I meant to bring this up; Eric, why are you not following MuggleCastPod?
Eric: Well, I was following MuggleCast, but I didn’t… okay, follow back. All right, I got you.
Andrew: Finally. Micah and Laura did. I did.
Eric: You know what? I only see… is this a story? Because I only see one post, and it’s our album art that I’ve seen a hundred times.
Laura: Yeah, it’s the story.
Eric: Oh. Here it is, okay… how do I…?
Andrew: Oh, Eric. Such an old man. It’s not even the story; that’s just a post. Click the circular logo. You’ll see my story with Micah.
Eric: Okay, I click the logo and I’m going to save… I screenshotted the story, and I’m going to add that to my Instagram.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: So for people who want to see MuggleCastPod’s outdated stories, follow EricJScull on Instagram and you’ll see MuggleCast stories.
Andrew: Wow. Well, you know what? I tagged you in the first post, so you probably did pick up some followers that way.
Eric: I think I did. Thank you so much.
Andrew: Yeah, you’re welcome. I’m going to untag you from this post now.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: MuggleCastPod… story of the day… there we go.
Andrew: Anyway, thank you, everybody, for listening.
Micah: And don’t forget the day we’re releasing this episode: April Fool’s Day.
Andrew: Happy birthday, Fred and George. Not to you, Fred, because you’re dead. You won’t be hearing this.
Laura: Aww.
Andrew: Too soon?
Laura: It’s still his birthday.
Andrew: Yeah, true. And his deathday was, what, a month later?
Eric: May 2.
Andrew: When was the Battle of Hogwarts? May 2? Can’t wait. We’re about a month away from the annual J.K. Rowling apology. Will she do it this year?
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Eric: Do you think she’ll come back to Twitter for that?
Andrew: It’ll be interesting to see.
Laura: I don’t know. I could see her being like, “Screw you guys.”
Andrew: And credit to her; I mean, she’s been pretty reliable with it, and you’d think she has other things to remember in her life, [laughs] so good on her for keeping it up for four or five years.
Laura: Anyway.
Andrew: I’m Andrew.
Eric: I’m Eric.
Micah: I’m Micah.
Laura: And I’m Laura.
Andrew: We’ll see you next time. Goodbye.
Laura and Micah: Bye.