Transcript for MuggleCast Episode #417, Next Level Magic (HBP Chapter 26, The Cave)
Show Intro
[Show music plays]
Andrew Sims: Welcome to MuggleCast Episode 417. I’m Andrew.
Eric Scull: I’m Eric.
Micah Tannenbaum: I’m Micah.
Andrew: And we’re joined by one of our Slug Club patrons this week. Hello, Natalie, coming to us from England today.
Natalie: Hello, hello.
Andrew: How you doing?
Natalie: Doing okay.
Andrew: Good.
Natalie: Thanks for having me on.
Andrew: What are you up to over in England? Because when you initially filled out the Slug Club cohost form, you were in Canada.
Natalie: Indeed.
Andrew: So what are you doing over there?
Natalie: I’m doing a master’s degree in arts administration and cultural policy.
Andrew: Wow, sounds smart. At what university are you doing that?
Natalie: Goldsmiths, in London.
Andrew: [gasps] In London? Damn.
Natalie: Yeah. [laughs]
Andrew: Have you been to Cursed Child over there?
Natalie: You know, I haven’t. I don’t feel compelled…
[Andrew gasps]
Natalie: … but maybe one day, if the time is right, I’ll go.
Andrew: Yeah. Well, you at least should go to MinaLima across the street. Have you done that yet?
Natalie: I have. I’ve been a few times. They’ve all changed to Fantastic Beasts things in there, but still good.
Andrew: Yeah, yeah. Cool. Well, it’s nice to have you on, and thank you for your support. Let’s get your fandom ID. Give us your favorite book, movie, Hogwarts House, Ilvermorny House, Patronus, and the one question you’d love to ask J.K. Rowling.
Natalie: Okay, Philosopher’s Stone, Deathly Hallows – Part 1, Slytherin, Thunderbird, wild boar. And the question I would ask JKR, other than, “Are you okay?”…
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Natalie: … would be, why did she feel that film was the best medium to tell the Fantastic Beasts story? This is just because I would have much rather liked another book series, if she was going to go into so much detail and add so much more to the canon.
Andrew: Well, I can answer that one for you. Mr. Warner Bros. came to J.K. Rowling’s door one day. [knocks] “Excuse me, J.K. Rowling, we need more movies. Can you do it?”
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: Yeah, I think they had the rights to do it, so they were going to do it with or without her on film.
Andrew: I wouldn’t go so far as saying they would do it without her; I think they would need her blessing. But it just so happened that J.K. Rowling, as she has said, had this idea for a story there. That was the one post-Potter story she wanted to explore, right? Or I shouldn’t say post-Potter, but outside of the world of Harry’s story. As for the question of if J.K. Rowling is okay or not, I hope so. [laughs] I have a feeling she’s just fine. Maybe her therapist said, “Get off Twitter. Just get off Twitter.”
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Listener Feedback
Andrew: So we’re going to discuss Half-Blood Prince Chapter 26 today. It’s a major chapter, “The Cave.” Oh my God, I can’t believe we finally reached this moment. And we also have a couple news items to discuss today. But first, I just wanted to share this tweet from one of our listeners, who also plays Quizzitch. I think I recognize this name: Voldy’s Moldy Nosey.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: And he sent in exclusive footage of Draco Malfoy whooping in that last chapter.
Eric: Oh, this was a question we had, because what is…? When you read it, you’re like, “Okay, I can kind of guess what that sounds like, but I’m not 100% sure.”
Andrew: Right, and you and I were guessing it sounded like, “Whoop! Whoop!”
Micah: Well, also, let’s remember the fact that Trelawney was deep into her sherry, so maybe she didn’t hear anything at all.
[Andrew and Natalie laugh]
Eric: Wow, maybe it’s all inside Trelawney’s head.
Andrew: Well, this is what Voldy’s Moldy Nosey thinks it sounded like.
[Audio plays of cartoon whooping]
Andrew: I think that’s accurate. That sounds like Draco.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: I thought it was funny. [laughs]
Eric: Yeah, no, this is great. I mean, listener feedback we get week to week, answering the hard-hitting questions, is why we do this show.
Andrew: Absolutely.
News
Andrew: Couple of news items now. So Universal… they’re so smart with their marketing; they just drop these little tidbits every week, and then we’re bringing up the ride every week.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Andrew: Of course, their new attraction, [takes a deep breath] Hagrid’s Magical Creatures Motorbike Adventure… I have to literally put it together in my head before I say it every time. They have unveiled their animatronic Hagrid, and he looks fantastic. It looks to me like he’s in the same scene – so I think it’s within Hagrid’s Hut – as the Blast-Ended Skrewt, and the reason I say that is Hagrid looks a little burnt, doesn’t he? He’s wearing some heavy gloves. He looks more disheveled than usual. He’s wearing glasses.
Micah: I’m just saying, if you go back to our discussion from a couple weeks ago, there could be another explanation as to why he looks a little burnt.
Andrew: [laughs] Do you want to remind us what that explanation is?
Micah: Oh, no, I was just recalling our conversation around the 4/20 holiday…
[Andrew laughs]
Eric and Natalie: Oh my God.
Micah: … and perhaps Hagrid uses his hut for medicinal purposes.
Andrew: I see. [laughs] So here’s some good news: Robbie Coltrane did record dialogue for the ride.
Eric: Oh, good.
Andrew: We were a little worried if that was going to happen or not. He signed on the dotted line – I’m sure Universal paid him handsomely – and we’ll get to hear him reprise his role as Hagrid. Universal is bragging about how lifelike this animatronic looks. It’s a seven foot tall Hagrid, it has 24 different body movements, and they were created in part using a digital scan of Robbie Coltrane’s mouth, which at his age, I’m sure it wasn’t pleasant to get all up in there and do that digital scan.
Eric: It just sounds very invasive, yeah.
Andrew: It does. [laughs] “You want to do what?”
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: “We want to put a camera in your mouth.”
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Eric: This is… maybe it’s one of those looking forward into the future things, so eventually they can just completely digitize the inside of his mouth. [laughs]
Andrew: Yeah, they probably did a whole scan of Robbie Coltrane, so if when the day comes that he unfortunately passes away and they want to do more Harry Potter movies, they will be able to digitally recreate Hagrid.
Eric: Yeah, they can 3-D print vocal cords and make him sound just like the real thing.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: Do you think he’ll be at the official opening of this ride?
Andrew: I would guess so. He was at the opening of Diagon Alley.
Eric: Yeah, I mean, health permitting. I know unfortunately he’s had some issues recently, and recovery. But presuming he can make the trip, it’s only in a month’s time, so we’ll see.
Andrew: It is in a month’s time. Universal started sending out invites for the opening. Guess who’s going?
Eric: Who?
Andrew: Me. It’s me.
Eric: Oh, oh.
Micah: I thought you were going to send Natalie.
Andrew: [laughs] Natalie, you want to come with?
Natalie: Man, I was waiting for it.
Andrew: Have you been to the theme parks?
Natalie: No, I actually haven’t.
Andrew: [gasps] Okay, well, look. I need to assist you in becoming a bigger fan here.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: First, you’ve got to see Cursed Child, okay? Then come back stateside and go to Orlando.
Natalie: True. Man, who am I? Lost my identity.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: She’s only been listening to us for 13 years, Andrew.
Andrew: [laughs] I’m just playing. So another news item… and before the show started, I asked Micah if he understood what’s happening, because I don’t understand what’s happening. So we’ll just touch on it. Pottermore and Warner Bros. have announced they are launching a new site at WizardingWorld.com, and if I understand this correctly, Pottermore and Warner Bros. have finally realized that they need a closer relationship, because right now, if Pottermore wants to run movie content on their website, they have to go and get clearance from Warner Bros.
Eric: Right.
Andrew: They can’t just take the images like every fansite does on the planet. [laughs] They get permission. And apparently this has been a bit of a hassle for some reason, so now they are… like I said, they’re forming a new joint venture called Wizarding World Digital, and notably, some of the Pottermore content will be leaving that site and moving to WizardingWorld.com, like the Patronus quiz, the Sorting Hat, and the other tests that they have available. Is that all to understand, Micah? What am I missing here?
Micah: Yeah, I think that probably covers it. I, from time to time, will get emails from Pottermore and not really understand what they mean, but this is just another example of that. It just sounds like they’re merging. You’re really taking everything under that Wizarding World umbrella, as we’ve seen happen with other properties over the course of the last couple years. It’s really becoming more about the Wizarding World, as opposed to just about Potter.
Andrew: So the BuzzFeed-y content… Pottermore says, “We’ll be packing up our box of quizzes, fun features, and articles, and moving them to WizardingWorld.com.” So the BuzzFeed-y type content will be moving to WizardingWorld.com, and then what remains on Pottermore? Is it just the ebook sales? I don’t understand.
Eric: Yeah, just the dust that they leave behind when they move the furniture out.
Andrew: [laughs] “The dust.”
Eric: I don’t understand. I’m reading this statement here, saying, “This venture will widen and deepen what we have been able to do on Pottermore so far.” They’re talking about the rights issue, like you said. “Pottermore hitherto only had limited access to the film content produced by Warner Bros.” Here’s the thing: I liked Pottermore because it was separate from Warner Bros. The original illustrations when the site first launched that were so beautiful and glorious and had nothing to do with the film adaptations, which were made 18-19 years ago… you really had a chance to move forward and look in different directions and kind of feel more creative than just the limited scope, relatively, of what those eight films – 16 hours – were able to do.
Andrew: Right.
Eric: So I don’t support this. I think Pottermore should have more comfortably existed on its own. But let’s be real, I think past the first couple years, whoever was running Pottermore… Pottermore itself, the vision for it, I think, faltered, and they never really had a clear vision or purpose, and eventually became all about listicles. So maybe this means that… do you think breaking news will still come out through Pottermore? Or will it come out through the film channels of WizardingWorld.com?
Andrew: I think WizardingWorld.com. But also remember, Pottermore was all about the books when it first launched, and they were so hell-bent on being about the books, that every original illustration – which, as Eric, you pointed out, they had tons of beautiful illustrations – they didn’t even show the faces of the characters because they didn’t want the website to ruin your imagination. Now it’s nothing but movie pictures. Well, that’s not true, but it’s 50/50 movie pictures and illustrations. So you’re right; they just haven’t had a direction on Pottermore for a while, and here comes another change, so we’ll see what remains. I mean, in a perfect world, Pottermore is about to be relaunched, and suddenly J.K. Rowling is going to be writing her own content for it again. That would be amazing.
Eric: Yeah. I got the most ominous text from our friend Terrence, who broke this news to me the other day. He said, simply, “Pottermore is going away…” and I was like, “What?! J.K. Rowling is closing Pottermore? Does she hate us? Is she really, really upset?” But it turns out it’s just some kind of corporate merger thing going on, so we’re fine, right?
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Andrew: Yeah. First she leaves Twitter; then she leaves Pottermore. What’s next? We’ll see. So this change is apparently taking place on or around May 15, so we don’t have to wait long to see what the heck they are doing.
Eric: Tune in next week for the latest…
Andrew: The exciting conclusion. What remains of Pottermore?
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: It just redirects to MuggleNet.com. “You know what? We can’t do this. You guys, MuggleNet, you take care of it, please.”
Eric: Awesome.
Andrew: Want to remind everybody about our Patreon. The signed album art cards, they arrived here in Chicago, and Micah, Eric, and I will be signing them together next week, because Micah, you are coming in to town soon. So if you want to get your own, join us at Patreon.com/MuggleCast, and pledge at the Dumbledore’s Army level or above, and you’ll be eligible to receive one if you remain a patron for at least three months. Just keep in mind you must join us by the end of July in order to receive one of these puppies. And by pledging, you will also receive instant access to lots of other benefits, including our recording studio and bonus MuggleCast. Also just want to give a quick shout-out to our latest patrons: Tanya, Larkin, Becki, Megan, Stephanie, Tori, Mary, Valerie, Mariel, Luke, Esther, Jennifer, Hailey, Billy, Signe, Rita, Sara, BigLanky, Janelle, Eve, Sam, and Amitha. Thank you all for supporting us. And existing patrons, please take a couple minutes to locate your address in Patreon’s system and make sure it’s up to date, because when we send you this album art, we want to make sure it reaches you.
Eric: Yes.
Andrew: So again, Patreon.com/MuggleCast. We would really appreciate your support. It’s what keeps this show funded and going, and going into the future as we await Fantastic Beasts 3 and whatever else the Wizarding World franchise throws our way.
Eric: Speaking of mergers, Andrew, we had a merger of our own this week, didn’t we?
Andrew: Oh my gosh, it was so exciting.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: It was so exciting! So we launched this Instagram recently, but we didn’t have Instagram.com/MuggleCast. We finally got in touch with the owner of that account, and we have to give a shout-out to Amy. You guys know the show Catfish? I feel like this is what kind of happened. She went digging into the old posts of this @MuggleCast account and found that the owner had tagged herself in one of the photos. This is something we did not notice, because it was just kind of buried. And her name, the owner of the account, is Amanda, so I went onto Amanda’s Instagram account, and luckily she replied, and she was happy to hand over the keys, so she just changed her @MuggleCast account to @Definitely_Not_MuggleCast.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: So the MuggleCast username freed up, and then I grabbed it, and we’re good. So now we’re at Instagram.com/MuggleCast. I know Micah originally thought he was responsible because he was also going to Instagram; he reached out to them directly, using his contacts. But sorry, buddy, I beat you.
Micah: Not only that, though; it was the same day…
Andrew: It was. [laughs]
Micah: … that I got confirmation that a colleague of mine had reached out to their contact in Instagram to get this all sorted out, and so naturally, I thought that I was responsible for what happened, but clearly not. So thanks to our aware fans who are paying attention to what’s going on on social media.
Andrew: We were closing in on it one way or the other. If Amanda didn’t reply, it probably would’ve been that way that we got it.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Micah: Exactly. Well, now we’d just better be careful they don’t switch us back in the other direction, because they’re going to be like, “Wait, hold on a second. They have this account. What are they talking about?”
Andrew: [laughs] So follow us there, Instagram.com/MuggleCast. You will get show clips, news, and inside looks at the recording of the show.
Micah: Before we get to Chapter by Chapter, we want to let you know that today’s episode of MuggleCast is brought to you by Away.
[Ad break]
Chapter by Chapter: Seven-Word Summary
Andrew: Now let’s discuss Chapter 26 of Half-Blood Prince, “The Cave.” We’re going to do our Seven-Word Summary. And Natalie, I put you in here twice at the last minute. I hope you’re prepared.
Micah: This is pressure time.
Andrew: Yeah, and you have the last word, so all the pressure.
Natalie: I’ll try to make it good.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Eric: I have the first word. Okay. Together…
Andrew: … they…
Micah: … enter…
Natalie: … the…
Eric: … mysterious…
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: … boat…
Andrew: Poor Natalie.
Natalie: I want to say two words. I’m trying to trying to condense it. The last word was boat?
Micah: Yeah.
Natalie: … ride.
Andrew: Okay.
Micah: There we go.
Andrew: “Together they enter the mysterious boat ride.”
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: Oh, man. I can’t wait for the compilation we’re going to do of all of our Seven-Word Summaries.
[Andrew and Micah laugh]
Micah: Actually, Natalie came through there, because once you set it up with that adjective, Eric, it was a little bit challenging, not going to lie.
Eric: Yeah, you’re right.
Andrew: I’ll blame you too.
Micah: Yeah, you can blame me also.
Eric: Blame all of us. Nice work, Natalie.
Natalie: Thank you.
Chapter by Chapter: Main Discussion
Micah: But one person we’re not going to blame – well, we might, depending on how this chapter discussion goes – is Laura.
[Eric laughs]
Micah: Laura, despite being absent this week, was nice enough to put together this entire discussion, so hopefully I don’t botch it.
Andrew: I don’t think you will. You’re my favorite Chapter by Chapter leader.
Eric: Same.
Micah: Oh, thank you, Andrew.
Andrew: Some of Laura’s personal notes are in here, though, so we might want to just read them verbatim, or we can steal them and take credit. Our listeners won’t know.
Micah: Or skip them altogether.
Andrew: No, we have to include them.
Micah: I’m joking.
Andrew: I’m going to take some of these as my own, and then listeners are going to be like, “Wow, Andrew is as smart as Laura these days.”
[Everyone laughs]
Micah: All right. Well, this chapter opens immediately after Harry and Dumbledore Apparate away from Hogsmeade, and we find them overlooking a crashing sea under an inky black star-strewn sky. And it all starts off very calm and serene. And Laura notes here that Dumbledore is pretty casual about everything that’s happening, and he even kind of adopts that persona throughout the course of the chapter. There are moments where his attitude may shift a little bit, but generally speaking, he’s very much a casual person throughout this chapter. What do you all think?
Natalie: Well, for me, this really stuck out to me, and it kind of started this pattern of awareness that I was really paying attention to the way Dumbledore was acting, but also in the way that JKR uses these words that kind of contrast not only with Harry’s perception of Dumbledore in relation to his age, his physical ability, or maybe how he’s feeling in that moment, but also in terms of the intensity of the moment that’s unfolding before us. For example, he’s super casual in this mysterious cave, and then I think we point out later on in the chapter certain actions that he does which kind of are contrasting to the fact that we know that he’s suffering from his injured hand, etc., etc. And so I was thinking, “Okay, JKR hasn’t done this arbitrarily, obviously,” and I was wondering, is she using these moments to kind of develop an aspect of skepticism within the reader in regards to Dumbledore? Because he’s been withholding so much information, and he kind of releases the information throughout this chapter and this adventure in the cave, and is she setting this up for the future emotional push and pull that happens in the next chapter relating to some of the key characters in the series that don’t necessarily fit within the dichotomies of good and evil, or friend versus enemy, like Dumbledore, Draco, and Snape? And so this was interesting, and it kind of formed this lens through which I read the rest of this chapter. I don’t know if anyone had any thoughts about that.
Eric: Yeah, I like that a lot. And I also think what’s interesting is Dumbledore being described at many points in this chapter as like a young man in an old man’s body. It’s kind of… also, this chapter is his swan song. We get him for only one more chapter with us while he’s alive, and J.K. Rowling kind of shows in this chapter just how skilled of a wizard he is. This chapter is kind of a real tribute to just the wizard, the man, the myth, the legend. He’s doing magic that Harry has no idea what even this looks like or feels like or sounds like, and ultimately, when being devastatingly debilitated by this potion, still manages to conjure the flames that get them out. So I think, too, though it may be contradictory or make us skeptical, I also think that it’s a real moving… it’s a bold statement that J.K. Rowling is making. Yes, this man is at the end of his life, but look what he can still do. And this is a guy that he’s a bright light, still, to the very end.
Andrew: I think, like you say, Eric, we only have one more chapter after this with alive Dumbledore, and he is at peace with what is about to happen, so I think that’s why he’s pretty casual. He’s also been looking forward to this moment, I think, and now he’s finally in it, so he’s just very present, he’s very prepared, and he has accepted his fate.
Micah: Yeah. And I think, too, it’s interesting to watch his mind work as well in this chapter, because he doesn’t have all the answers. Normally with Dumbledore, there’s this expectation that he knows everything that’s going on, but there are moments in this chapter – and we’ll get to them – where that’s clear, that he has some good guesses, and he has that line earlier on in the series about how his guesses are better than most. I’m paraphrasing.
[Eric laughs]
Micah: But he’s vulnerable in this chapter, which is also something I don’t think we’ve seen much at all, where it’s actually right in front of us. We know that his hand’s been injured, but outside of that, I don’t know that we’ve ever seen a time in this series where we’ve felt like Dumbledore has been in danger.
Andrew: No.
Micah: Eric, you mentioned that there’s these times where it’s referenced that he has the energy of a much younger man, and that’s very evident from early on in this chapter, when he just plunges into the water and he’s doing this perfect breaststroke. He’s Michael Phelps.
[Everyone laughs]
Micah: It’s amazing to watch this man who’s over 100 years old just jump right into the ocean and swim beautifully right into the cave.
Eric: That’s a direct quote, by the way. “Perfect breaststroke.”
Micah: It is.
Andrew: It’s just so funny to me. I have such a hard time picturing it. Who knew that Dumbledore was such a great swimmer? Is he swimming so well because he knows a Horcrux is afoot, so he just gets himself together in these moments?
Eric: Not to mention they’re in robes, too, both of them. Harry is in his Invisibility Cloak too. They’re just swimming along. I mean, robes would probably weigh you down a little bit.
Andrew: Absolutely. They drag behind you; that cannot make it easy to swim or form a perfect breaststroke.
Eric: Yeah. Props to Dumbledore.
Micah: Absolutely.
Andrew: I wonder if Dumbledore wears goggles. Is he somebody who wears goggles when swimming?
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: Was there any note of that in this chapter? I don’t think so.
Eric: He can probably magic them on.
Andrew: Yeah, yeah, there’s probably a spell for that. But yeah, this was just hilarious to me. And Laura, in her notes, wrote, “Is this just the result of his eagerness to find the next Horcrux?” I think it’s definitely related. Maybe this is how Dumbledore stays in such good shape. I mean, he’s a skinny guy, right? Maybe he does a lot of swimming in the Black Lake in his spare time.
Eric: Yeah. I mean, I think it is… going back to what Natalie was saying, he’s in his element here. And we all can kind of agree, everything has been built… everything all year, but also all Dumbledore has really been building up… it’s not clear when you’re reading it, but I think in the end, Dumbledore has really geared the back half of his life to destroying Voldemort and to knowing… I mean, this was clear in the memory chapters that we got, that he has painstakingly created the narrative that he’s telling Harry about, and it’s ended with… I mean, this is the end of the line. He now has all the detail that he needed to know to get here, and so I think it’s the fulfillment of his life’s purpose that is what’s driving him and making him seem younger than normal.
Micah: I think there’s a bit of adrenaline, though, as well, right? We always hear about situations where people are able to do extraordinary things, and despite Dumbledore being an extraordinary wizard, jumping into the ocean and doing a perfect breaststroke is not something that we would normally expect him to be able to do. It’s a very Muggle thing, and yet he’s able to do it with the slightest of ease. I think there’s this driving force within him internally that he knows that he’s got to do this, and it’s essential that he do this before they get back to Hogwarts, and Snape, inevitably, is going to have to kill him.
Eric: He picked a good Horcrux, too, because Harry never would have been able to get this without him.
Andrew: No.
Eric: If Dumbledore was like, “I know where Nagini the snake is hiding tonight; let’s go get her,” it would have been a way different outcome. And thinking about it in retrospect, besides the ring – which Dumbledore already took care of, thank God – this is the most well-protected Horcrux that exists. We don’t know why.
Micah: We could guess, though. It’s Slytherin’s locket. So does that hold a higher level of value to him? Didn’t his mother also have it for a period of time?
Eric: Yeah, that’s true. Are you saying Voldemort has a motherly connection on Mother’s Day?
[Andrew and Natalie laugh]
Eric: Aw.
Andrew: He absolutely has a special connection to this locket. I mean… you know.
Natalie: But in regards to Dumbledore’s performance – or not performance, but his ability to do this perfect breaststroke – maybe Dumbledore right now is in his element. He’s an extraordinarily powerful wizard, and he’s entering this really heavy-with-magic place, and about to embark on this quite harrowing journey. Maybe this is just his time to show what he can do.
Andrew: Right. Yeah, this is like a game to him. This is fun for him.
Eric: Yeah, maybe he gets energy from the surrounding energy. You know what I’m saying? That could be a thing.
Micah: Magical adrenaline.
Andrew: So let’s talk about that. Let’s talk about that magic in the air that he feels.
Micah: True. Yeah, and I wanted to just go off of one thing Eric said earlier in terms of finding this Horcrux, because Dumbledore would have had to have done a lot of detective work just to get to this place to begin with, and we get a little bit of backstory about Tom Riddle and him bringing the kids from the orphanage down here.
Eric: Well, did they take that bus tour that you were on a couple weeks ago that brought you out here, Micah?
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: Oh.
Eric: Because you’ve been to this cave, right?
Micah: Well, I’ve been to where they filmed Half-Blood Prince. I can’t speak as to whether or not that’s the actual cave in question.
Eric: Oh, I see. I was going to mention that because…
Micah: Sorry to disappoint.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: All this talk about perfect breaststroke. Are we disappointed that they did not make Michael Gambon do this in the films?
Andrew: They probably tried to make him do it, and he said no. He seems like a grumpy dude.
[Micah and Natalie laugh]
Eric: I’m honestly just surprised that they did… I mean, I think that Michael Gambon, at this point in these films, is as close to book Dumbledore as that actor can be. I’m really, really grateful for it. So yeah, they were always going to be different characters, different portrayals and all that. They would never have gotten Richard Harris to do it.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: So it’s just… we’ve got to be grateful with what we have.
Micah: So inside of the cave, it’s noted that Dumbledore believes this to be the place because “It has known magic,” and that’s something that I don’t necessarily know that we’ve seen in this series before, just the fact that somebody like Dumbledore is able to sense magic just by being present. And I don’t know if that’s like a sixth sense, or it’s just something that all witches and wizards are able to do as they grow older.
Andrew: So ghost Laura said that she likens this to visiting a hallowed or a historic area, and she remembers feeling this way when visiting Gettysburg.
Eric: Oh, have you guys been to Gettysburg at all?
Andrew: No. Did you say Guinnessburg?
Eric: No, Gettysburg.
Andrew: Okay.
Eric: Guinnessburg is where we go on Sundays at brunch.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: No, Gettysburg is a field in Pennsylvania, and one of the most bloodiest battles in US military history was fought at Gettysburg. And there’s so many reasons for why they say it’s one of the most haunted areas in the world that you can visit, and it could have to do with the loss of life that was so snuffed out when it was still so young. It could have to do with just open blood and things like that, which remind me of this chapter, which is why I love that Laura pointed this out. It is very much… I’ve been there, and it was only several hours… it was only a couple hours from where I grew up, and I’ve been there, and you do feel something. You can’t help but feel a little tingly in certain ways. It’s a very interesting connection, but yeah.
Andrew: I feel like in Dumbledore’s situation and in a situation like visiting Gettysburg… or another example, the 9/11 memorial in New York City. I mean, they have those beautiful memorials where the two towers once stood.
Eric: The fountains.
Andrew: You just feel what was once there. You feel the spirits that were once there. You feel the memories. You feel the history. I think that is what is happening in the wizarding world in this scene, but with a little tint of actual magic causing some sort of feeling. It’s like in Star Wars, and obviously this is not a real world example, but it’s like in Star Wars when they feel the Force. You have to breathe.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: You have to just feel it within you. It’s like that, what’s going on. It’s quite beautiful.
Eric: Yeah. And part of this chapter’s purpose is to I guess, in a way, really educate Harry. If Harry came up against… and Dumbledore doesn’t know that he won’t come up against very similar circumstances and protections around Horcruxes – Harry ends up getting lucky and doesn’t have to – but things like this lesson he says to Harry: “Magic always leaves traces.” That’s huge. That’s super important, and it’s written into the logic of J.K. Rowling’s world. So it’s kind of cool that we’re getting this style of magic that we just have never seen before, and with Dumbledore, we will not see the like of him again, I think.
Micah: And Harry also senses it too, though. It’s noted that he feels something as well, which I found interesting, because is it just because Dumbledore makes this comment to him that all of a sudden he feels something as well? Or is it because all wizards have that ability?
Eric: The book says it could also be because he’s cold, though.
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: It says the gooseflesh… yeah, it’s because he could be cold.
Andrew: I think it could be part placebo effect. I think it could also be that you do feel a little magic in the air. I’d be interested to have a scene after this where Harry enters the castle and he tries to meditate within Hogwarts and see if he can feel the magic, because obviously there’s tons of magic there too. Is he feeling it there but he just doesn’t notice because he’s feeling it all the time? Same thing goes for all the other students.
Micah: Yeah, that’s a great point, maybe because this place is so isolated and it’s out within the larger world that the ability to sense magic is that much greater. There’s also a great point that you brought up later that I really want to talk about, but we’ll hold it until then.
Andrew: Okay.
Micah: Dumbledore spends a great deal of time running his hand over the wall, pausing to go back over certain surfaces, and this really begs the question, how can magic be felt? Is it just that Dumbledore is so accomplished at this point that he’s moving his hand over the wall and he can figure out, just by touch, what he needs to do?
Eric: Yeah, I definitely don’t think any wizard could do this; it takes a certain caliber of wizard. Similarly, with feeling the magic, I think somebody like Dumbledore, who has just been around magic for, as you say, a hundred years or more, knows what it looks and what it feels like, what it smells like. But the feeling thing is a good question, because again, we’re dealing with objects that maybe weren’t always those objects that have been transformed or transfigured or made to be bent to the will. I think there’s probably also… as often as Dumbledore can feel magic, he can also feel nature, I think. He can feel what’s normal. If he were standing in a normal cave that had no magic, he’d also be able to tell that mostly by its absence of magic. So I think maybe he’s just really discerning the difference between which rocks are there formed naturally and which rocks are secret entrances. You know what I’m saying?
Andrew: Yeah. I wonder if it offers the feeling of like a magnet does. Does his hand kind of gravitate towards areas where he senses it? What do you think, Natalie? What do you make of this feeling out the magic?
Natalie: Yeah, I mean, I agree with what everyone has said, that he’s so powerful, as we’ve talked about throughout this. But perhaps this is something that only Dumbledore could do. I mean, I can’t think of anyone else who could, just because of his age and his experience. In terms of what it feels like, maybe it’s just this intrinsic feeling, like when people say, “When you know, you know.” It’s not necessarily a magnetic pull or anything like that. But he seems to, in this chapter, really take his time to touch and caress the rocks, occasionally pausing, and… I don’t really know where I’m going with this. It’s just magical. That’s all I can say.
Andrew: [laughs] It is.
Eric: It’s nice to watch the master at work.
Andrew: Laura, in her notes, wonders if Fantastic Beasts could potentially explore this at some point. Maybe? I just don’t think it’s much of a priority for J.K. Rowling to explain this. I don’t think anything needs to be said. Some areas in the world of magic just don’t need to be explained, and I think this is one of them.
Eric: They do have that back-in-time dust, though, that Newt uses in Crimes of Grindelwald to see the past.
Andrew: Yeah, which I don’t understand.
Eric: Yeah, pretty weird.
Micah: I just find it interesting, though, that this whole chapter, for the most part, is about a different level of magic. It’s almost next level, and I think it paints a really good picture for the type of wizard that Voldemort is, because this chapter is just as much about him as it is about Dumbledore and Dumbledore’s ability to really break through all these different puzzles that Tom has put into place. And it really shines through when Dumbledore is talking about how crude it is, almost, what somebody has to do in order just to get to this Horcrux, right? Somebody has to slice their hand open, rub their blood up against the wall, almost weaken themselves. We don’t know really if that has any effect at all on Dumbledore.
Eric: I mean, he heals himself seconds later, so it’s almost like….
Micah: He does, so that begs the question, would the cut have had any effect on him? We don’t know what is on that wall. Although Harry does the same thing upon their exit, and presumably he’s fine.
Eric: Yeah, I don’t think Dumbledore has the answer to that. I think he just generally… I mean, he says to Harry, “Your blood is more valuable than mine.” And I think that’s not only a nice sentiment, but we see how going back to Book 4, Dumbledore’s gleam of triumph when Voldemort used Harry’s blood to regenerate himself and thereby, on one hand, bypassing the blood protection that Lily left him, but on the other hand, weakening him, making him more like Harry, making the Horcrux, I guess, more vulnerable inside him. So I think Dumbledore is just kind of making a judgment call that’s like, maybe that rock… even though it wouldn’t do it by DNA, because that’s science, not magic. But if that rock is keeping a register, kind of like signing a guest book of who’s been there, it would be better for Dumbledore to sign in and just let Harry walk by than for Harry to sign in, I guess.
Andrew: I think it’s also just about maintaining Harry’s strength. Yes, the cut can be healed, but if Harry gets cut, he might feel a little weaker, or may feel a little down for some reason, and then once he got into the cave, it could have affected his performance in helping Dumbledore. Also, I think the blood portion of entering the cave is also a test to see how serious you are about your reason to be there. If Micah is visiting the cave and he gets to a wall that says, “Okay, give me your blood,” unless he’s searching for a Horcrux, he’s probably not going to do that.
Eric: Right.
Andrew: He’s just a tourist who wants to enjoy the cave. He doesn’t want to cut himself to get in.
[Eric and Natalie laugh]
Andrew: So I think it’s also just a test to make sure that whoever’s entering here is serious about their intentions.
Micah: Yeah. And I wonder, too, much like the boat, is it measuring the power of the witch or wizard, as opposed to…? The boat was about weight, but you know what I mean? By cutting your hand open and pressing your blood against this wall, right, is it taking into consideration whose blood it is? How much magical power exists within the person that is trying to enter this cave? Because a lot of the discussion later on gets into Voldemort would have wanted to make sure that the person who was getting in here was of equal value, almost. There’s just one other thing I wanted to bring up, because I thought it was just a really cool statement to make by J.K. Rowling. When Harry is observing Dumbledore, he says, “He had never seen a wizard work things out like this, simply by looking and touching; but Harry had long since learned that bangs and smoke were more often the marks of ineptitude than expertise.”
Eric: Yeah, and that’s kind of a nice way of canonizing or formalizing things that have existed in the world but never were overtly stated. Beings like Mundungus Fletcher make a loud crack when Disapparating, and that’s not just Mundungus. He’s sort of careless, kind of, so she’s used attributes, like the noise that these characters make when they disappear and reappear, to define their character. For years she’s been doing this, and so it’s nice to get that kind of thing just set out and written in stone, as it were.
Andrew: It also makes me think about how in Fantastic Beasts, we see all these nonverbal spells. In the Harry Potter books and movies, they’re all out loud, and then in Fantastic Beasts, in these fight sequences, it’s just all these fast-moving spells with no verbal introduction.
Eric: [laughs] I was thinking about that when Dumbledore says “Lumos,” and I was like, “He’s doing that for Harry’s benefit in this chapter.”
Andrew: [laughs] Yeah.
Eric: He’s like, “Okay, let me show you what I’m doing. Lumos.”
[Andrew and Natalie laugh]
Micah: Yeah, but there’s definitely something to be said for this next level magic. That’s what I’m going to keep referring to it as, because I feel like that is really at the center of this chapter. For as much as we hear spells – Eric, to your point, Lumos – that we’ve come to know, I think now it’s about seeing how a wizard like Dumbledore is able to figure things out. And Laura even made a comparison, when we’re talking about ineptitude, to Lockhart, given the connections that we often see between Half-Blood Prince and Chamber of Secrets.
Andrew: Yeah. Lockhart, a very grandiose guy, not just with his spellwork, but also just with his presence amongst his fans. Everything is over the top. And here’s Dumbledore saying, “You don’t need any of that.”
Eric and Micah: Yeah.
Eric: And the question can be raised to where do you learn this magic, right? Because Hogwarts… even if Harry had stayed for the seventh year, it’s not like all of a sudden you’ve learned how to touch and feel your way into the spellwork. And the answer – although I know there was an Alohomora podcast episode I was on that heavily went into this – the answer seems to be independent study, mostly. Men like Voldemort, who left school, went off into the forest for several years, and made all these modifications, come back more powerful than ever. And Dumbledore himself eventually, I think, traveled the world as well, in addition to just his knowing many more accomplished wizards like Nicolas Flamel, who he hung out with. So I think a lot of the answer does appear to be this level of magic – this next level, as you called it, Micah – seems to be discerned from the wizard himself. And it takes, as you also mentioned, meditation, I think, or something like that, to really be able to achieve it or grasp it.
Micah: Definitely. So when do we think that Voldemort last visited this cave?
Andrew: Does it have to be recent at all? Is there a reason to think he would visit with any regularity other than to check in on his Horcrux?
Micah: It’s a good question, and perhaps we get a little bit of insight in Deathly Hallows; I can’t recall. But I don’t necessarily think it needs to be recent at all.
Andrew: No.
Micah: It could have been when he last was here was when he created the Horcrux.
Eric: He did have to come back to stock it with dead bodies. That is the one thing that I kind of… it’s funny to picture all the Inferi being marched into the cave, to where they can live there or whatever. I don’t know if he Apparated the corpses. It’s a disturbing thought, but how did…? All the people that he killed that are underneath the lake, they’re either the casualties of the first Wizarding War against Voldemort, so before he met baby Harry, or they’re much more recent, so since year four when he got his body back and has been killing people willy nilly, has then begun stocking them in this cave. So they’re either very recent, like the last two years, or they’re 15 or 16 or 17 years ago.
Micah: All right, well, Dumbledore continues to teach Harry even in these extreme circumstances, once they are through this wall of blood sacrifice, as we’ll call it.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: And Harry comes up with this idea, this brilliant idea, to just say, “Accio Horcrux.”
Andrew: Right.
Micah: And Dumbledore is willing to let him do this. He feels perfectly content in this moment to let Harry just try it out, so he’s being a teacher even up until these last few chapters that we’ll see him in.
Andrew and Eric: Yeah.
Andrew: There’s no better way to learn than by having real world experience. And Eric was just talking about how Dumbledore is so skilled because he has had all this real world experience. I think, again, with Dumbledore knowing that his days are numbered, he needs to help Harry as much as possible, and just saying something to Harry won’t resonate as much as letting him live and learn. That said, as readers and fans, I think we all love Accio because of how convenient it is. I seriously sit in my house sometimes and I’m just like, “I wish I could Accio the remote or my phone right now.”
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: This is just a spell that we as kids – and I don’t know, maybe even adults, too – wish they could be using, because it just solves a lot of problems. And look, Harry has also Accio‘d things from distances and has had successful results, thinking back to Goblet of Fire, Accio-ing his broom to fight the dragon. [laughs] It can work. But would Tom Riddle let it work in this situation? Of course not.
Micah: Yeah, but it is a very important lesson, though, and however, sometimes the simplest of solutions are the best ones, right? They end up working out. But in this case, to the point that Andrew was just making, this is Tom Riddle, this is Voldemort, and it would not be that easy, because presumably whomever was coming through this cave would have at least some sort of idea of what they were after. They’re not just going to happen upon this place; they’re here to look for the Horcrux, and Tom is not going to just let somebody act Accio it right into their hands. Not going to happen.
Eric: Yeah. But I love Laura’s… I assume this is Laura’s point here where she brings it back to Chapter 21? Yeah, she talks about how Snape berates Harry for giving that simple answer, “Ghosts are transparent.” Snape kind of criticizes Harry’s more direct approach, but Harry defends himself by saying, “Well, in the wild, that’s what you encounter.” If you have to tell the difference between a reanimated corpse and a ghost, that’s what you’re going to do, and so it also speaks to the difference in Snape versus Dumbledore’s teaching styles.
Andrew and Natalie: Yeah.
Natalie: I think throughout this chapter, Dumbledore is kind of teaching directly, but also showing Harry what kind of a wizard he needs to be in order to defeat Voldemort, through these unspoken spells, but also through just trying things and thinking critically and taking into consideration this is kind of the last lesson that Dumbledore teaches Harry. It’s quite important.
Andrew: Yeah, that’s a great point.
Micah: Well, Dumbledore continues to use his abilities to get this boat that’s submerged beneath the glassy lake surface. And Laura notes that, “We know Tom has a flare for the dramatic, but this really makes it seem like he’s leaving the door open for someone to find his Horcruxes.”
[Eric laughs]
Micah: “Is this just arrogance, or is it Tom’s desire to prove that no one could overcome his brand of magical prowess?”
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: I’m just going to read her notes from now on. Sounds so much better than…
Andrew: Well, maybe Tom just wanted to have a little fun, because as Dumbledore and Harry note, “This is too easy. This is too simple. What’s going to happen when we ride in this boat?” I think Tom Riddle could be having some fun with that, spooking people who are like, “Oh, okay, well, I can take a boat, but hmm, what’s going to happen when I actually do that?”
Eric: Yeah, I mean, the potion is… apart from the army of the dead and the blood sacrifice and the invisible boat that you have to know it’s there, and then you have to reach out to grab it, the potion is really the trump card here. Anyone who can survive the potion is… I mean, you’ve earned the Horcrux, and so everything else is just window dressing. I think it’s possible that… we see Voldemort come and check on this Horcrux in the next book, when he realizes that it’s gone and he finally realizes what Harry is up to. He just flies over the surface of the lake. So for me, I’m thinking maybe Voldemort couldn’t fly when he first placed the Horcrux here, because in the books – not the films, but in the books – no wizards can actually fly; it’s just Voldemort. And so maybe Voldemort just needed a way to cross the lake without waking up the dead bodies.
Andrew: Right. [laughs] It could also be that simple.
Micah: But I also don’t think that those bodies would attack him.
Eric: They might.
Andrew: No. Well…
Eric: I mean, he could defeat them, but you wouldn’t want to damage your bodyguards, right? You wouldn’t want to damage your security protocols. I think the boat is an elegant solution for just Voldemort to get across the lake, I think, in general, but it also evokes Greek imagery, the River Styx with… I think it’s Charon, is the Grim Reaper that guides you across the lake of the dead or into the afterworld. There’s very much very old Greek vibes happening right now, which I find to be very exciting.
Andrew: So Dumbledore addresses this question. He says, “Voldemort would have been reasonably confident that none but a very great wizard would have been able to find the boat.” But then that begs the question, why leave that possibility open at all still? And there’s this talk in this moment of the Inferi not coming to life as they use this boat, and we’re just talking here about how maybe they wouldn’t come to life if they thought it was Tom Riddle. I’m wondering, is it possible that since a part of Voldemort is inside Harry, that the magic within the cave is actually mistaking him for Voldemort?
Eric: Oooh.
Andrew: This never gets answered, but I think it could be a valid reason.
Eric: I like that.
Andrew: Maybe the magic in the cave has to have a certain threshold to cross before it assumes this is not Tom Riddle – I’m just thinking of this in a high-tech robotic way – and it just does not have the confidence that this isn’t Tom Riddle, so it lets everything continue.
Micah: Yeah. I think this is the best question we’ve asked throughout Chapter by Chapter of Half-Blood Prince.
Andrew: Oh my God.
Eric: Wow.
Andrew: I’m very flattered, Micah.
Micah: No, because it’s something that I never thought of before, that it could possibly be registering the Horcrux inside of Harry as being Voldemort, at least for a period of time.
Andrew and Eric: Yeah.
Andrew: And you wonder if Dumbledore has considered this as well, and could be why he was so okay with bringing Harry to the cave. Yes, he definitely wanted to teach Harry a few lessons, as we’re discussing here, but also maybe he was considering that since he knew, right, that there was a part of Voldemort inside of Harry, this would be an extra layer of protection to get what he needs.
Eric: So he’s brought Harry as sort of a human shield.
Andrew: Pig for slaughter!
Eric: [laughs] Yeah, “This is my Voldy bits right here! Here, hold him in front of me.” I think it’s more of a movie-ism than a book-ism that Horcruxes are even aware of other Horcruxes, but I like this question because it is unanswerable within canon, so I like that.
Andrew: What do you think, Natalie?
Natalie: I agree. It is so interesting to think about this with hindsight, because we know about Harry and him being… but I don’t know in terms of whether the bodies would have attacked Voldemort or not, just because I think that magic is just separate from the overall magic that’s happening with the boat. But yeah, I think this is a brilliant question.
Andrew: This is my one question for J.K. Rowling, after “Are you okay?”
Micah: There you go.
Eric: [laughs] Yeah, definitely. “Are you okay?” is the new default J.K. Rowling question.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: I really want her to answer that before all the others. But yeah, I definitely want to… I mean, I would ask J.K. Rowling, too, what this magic is, really, or what Dumbledore sees in the potion. That’s still the number one thing for me.
Andrew: Yeah, well, we’re about to talk about that.
Micah: And we did touch on this earlier, but the whole idea of the boat carrying magical weight versus physical weight, and that really, if Hagrid got in the boat… well, for a number of reasons, that thing would have been beneath the lake in the cave very, very quickly.
[Eric laughs]
Micah: But if Hagrid were this amazingly powerful wizard like Dumbledore, chances are he could have gotten in the boat and sailed across quite easily. One thing, though, that Dumbledore says about Harry, which I don’t necessarily agree with, is that because he is underage, that Voldemort would not have considered him to be of any level of threat. But we’re also talking about Harry here. This is not your average Dean Thomas or Seamus Finnigan who’s with Dumbledore. This is Harry.
Eric: What do you have against Dean Thomas and Seamus Finnigan, Micah?
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: What’s that?
Eric: What do you have against them?
Micah: They’re irrelevant.
Andrew: They suck compared to Harry.
Micah: They’re not relevant in any way, shape, or form.
Eric: Wow. But Voldemort makes the same mistake with Kreacher, or… wait, I think I’m wrong.
Micah: Well, that’s why I think this point is made by Dumbledore, is because of what we learn later on about Regulus. However, I just don’t think that it’s right to consider that Harry would not have been of some higher level value riding along with Dumbledore. I would almost say that there’s so much magical ability within that boat that there should have been fireworks going off or something.
Andrew: Well, yeah. I mean, we keep talking about how there’s all these tests of magic within this cave. Why wouldn’t Tom be measuring magical skill versus age? I agree; it doesn’t make sense, and I think Dumbledore is wrong here.
Eric: It’s just not fleshed out how the difference being an underage wizard and an adult wizard changes things. It is relevant, because that’s why the Seven Potters scene exists in Deathly Hallows. The magical protection that’s on all of Privet Drive – the one reason Voldemort doesn’t just show up in summer and kill Harry in his sleep – is strictly because the magic is designed to work on the underage. And so there is a big change between an adult wizard and an underage wizard, and it’s kind of palpable. So I just take Dumbledore’s word at face value here, and I say that Voldemort, with his arrogance, really only counted on of-age wizards somehow, and the way you describe or create the magic, it has something to do with that. And Harry is not that great of a wizard; I don’t know what you guys are talking about. He is the worst at everything he does, to reiterate that.
Andrew: [gasps] Oh.
Micah: Wow. Well, I’m sure we could talk a lot about this, and I do think, though, there is something to be said for the underestimation of a second riding in this boat, and I think that’s where Kreacher comes into play in Deathly Hallows when we hear his story. It’s just Voldemort’s really innate nature to overlook those that he considers to be less than him, whether that is a house-elf or that’s an underage wizard. So now we’re on a boat. We’re making our way across the lake.
Andrew: [laughs] We’re on a boat.
Micah: And Harry is really starting to get freaked out by all of the bodies that are just popping up out of the water. But much like the beginning of this chapter, Dumbledore is very calm, very relaxed, and he says even to Harry that “There is nothing to be feared from a body, Harry, any more than there is anything to be feared from the darkness… It is the unknown we fear when we look upon death and darkness, nothing more.”
Andrew: Yeah, again here, Dumbledore knows he’s going to die soon. He’s feeling confident, I think, in that they are going to be able to accomplish this. So just overall, I think he’s in a good mood, [laughs] which is weird to say, but I think he knows that they’re going to be able to knock this out; they’re going to be able to accomplish this task. So that said, I can’t believe that Dumbledore is so comfortable with dead bodies. I get skeeved out when I drive over a dead animal. If the animal is already dead, and I see it coming up on the road, I just… feeling it underneath me, I get the chills. I’m like, “Oh, God, I can’t believe that just happened.” I would be Harry in this moment, absolutely, and it’s kind of weird that Dumbledore doesn’t feel the same way. Yet, I also understand it.
Eric: Yeah, exactly. And Dumbledore accuses Voldemort of being afraid of the dark and being afraid of a body, which I think is crucial only because that’s how Voldemort ends up. Again, in the book, not the movie, but in the book, Voldemort leaves behind his corpse. He leaves behind his body, and that’s all that Voldemort is reduced to, and so it’s kind of prophetic in a way that Dumbledore says that bodies secretly creep Voldemort out, because it’s the proof, the ultimate proof, that you were merely a mortal person. So Voldemort… and again, this whole cave scene is an insight into Voldemort as much as it is Dumbledore, like you said. So I think that really, Voldemort has stuffed this cave with stuff that he himself would be afraid of, in a way.
Micah: Right. And it’s even noted that he fears death and he fears darkness, and that’s the whole reason why he’s created Horcruxes in the first place. It’s the whole reason why he wants to be immortal. And to your point, it ties all within the fabric of this chapter. So we safely make it to the island in the middle of the lake, and there’s this basin that looks very much like a Pensieve, and inside of it – although I don’t really think we can see it right away – is a locket, but in order to get to that locket, there is this liquid that needs to be drunk. And now we get to the point where Dumbledore is trying to reinforce to Harry over and over and over again what he said to him prior to them departing for the cave, which is that basically, Harry must do anything and everything that Dumbledore tells him to do. And if Harry was afraid earlier while they were crossing on the boat, he’s terrified now, because I think the thought of being in this situation with Dumbledore in a reduced state, or even worse, is about as bad as it can get.
Andrew: I think there’s also the sense that this is the grand finale, so something bad is about to happen, and Dumbledore has been warning Harry, “You need to ignore whatever happens and just push through,” and that’s terrifying, because Dumbledore is a father figure to him, and he’s about to watch Dumbledore be tortured. I’m also a little curious about… so Dumbledore, he realizes that this needs to be drunk, and Dumbledore says it can’t be parted, scooped up, etc. It has to go through a mouth. So I’m wondering – this is not important in the overall scheme of things – but what is the magic here that allows it be scooped up in a goblet, then drunk, but not parted? How does it know that it’s being drunk?
Eric: Well, and furthermore, after you drink it, water that has been created by magic can’t go in your mouth. It vanishes… water that’s any other water than the water from the lake gets disappeared because you’ve drunk this potion. That is some amazing potion. Was Voldemort the Half-Blood Prince?
[Andrew and Natalie laugh]
Eric: Is that what this chapter is leading up to? I’m just… because this potion is blowing my mind.
Micah: Well, it’s somewhat ironic, though, isn’t it, that a potion would be at the center of this chapter, given that the book is all about the Half-Blood Prince?
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: Fun fact: This scene, which, of course, is on the cover of the US edition of Half-Blood Prince…
Eric: And UK.
Andrew: … was also our original album art.
Eric: Yeah, yeah, that’s true. And this scene makes the majority of the book covers, I think, for Half-Blood Prince. Oftentimes between the US and the UK, at least, you get totally different scenes, but Book 6 is the one where they converge. US and UK are both Dumbledore and the flames and Harry and the basin.
Micah: Definitely.
Eric: But yeah, that’s another one of these things that Dumbledore is able to discern just by looking or prodding. And I want to read the full thing, because it’s short: “This potion cannot be penetrated, Vanished, parted, scooped up, or siphoned away, nor can it be Transfigured, Charmed, or otherwise made to change his nature.” He figures this out in 30 seconds. He’s trying every single one of those things – Transfiguration, Charming, all these other forms of magic – just in front of Harry, wordlessly. And again, swan song. It just shows how awesome Dumbledore is.
Andrew: And Harry and Dumbledore also talk about, “Is this potion going to kill?” And Dumbledore says that Voldemort “would not want to immediately kill the person” who drinks it, and Dumbledore thinks it’s because Voldemort would want to come and learn who was trying to get the Horcrux. But I’d also think it would have to do with Voldemort wanting to cause the person to die a slow and painful death, if they were to actually die. Wouldn’t Voldemort prefer that instead of a quick death? That’s no fun.
Eric: Yeah, I’m glad you brought that up, because does it seem like the dead, the Inferi, are going to hold Harry above the water? They’re trying to pull him in. So whoever breaks the spell and gets the dead… they’re going to drown you, so what’s this thing about Voldemort wanting to meet the person who discovered his secret? The dead are presumably trying to kill Harry and Dumbledore, so I get confused about that.
Andrew: And by the way, on this point about how Dumbledore understands or can figure out how to get through the cave, Alyssa, who is listening live on Patreon right now, she says, “I think Dumbledore knowing who Tom Riddle is fundamentally also assists him in sensing the magic throughout the cave. He’s so attuned to what he believes Voldemort would do that he almost has a spidey-sense regarding his surroundings.”
Eric: Yeah, he says flat-out to Harry, “I know Tom Riddle. I taught him.” What we didn’t know at the time when we read this, or even until now, was that he probably taught him Defense Against the Dark Arts instead of Transfiguration. [laughs]
Andrew and Micah: Yeah.
Micah: And to that point, it’s even noted in this chapter how Dumbledore knew some of these things just based on the fact that he taught Tom. Just the familiarity aspect.
Andrew: So he gets drinking. It’s party time.
[Micah and Natalie laugh]
Eric: It’s Guinness time, or Guinness… what did we say earlier?
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Micah: You said Guinnessburg.
Eric: Yeah, Guinnessburg. Time to go to Guinnessburg.
Andrew: [laughs] It’s Gettysburg time.
Micah: Yeah, so Dumbledore starts drinking out of the basin with the help of Harry, and he starts, after a while, to really lose his shit, and there’s been a lot of discussion about what we think Dumbledore is seeing in this moment, and it’d be interesting to go back to our earlier episodes, really, and see what we theorized in this moment. We did not have any context for Ariana, because we learn more about that in Deathly Hallows, so the 2005/2006 version of this podcast probably had a lot of theories going around. But when he’s talking about it being all of his fault and just the sheer torment that he’s going through – he mentions children – and what is it that Dumbledore is seeing in this moment?
Andrew: Yeah. So in regards to the children, it makes you think something to do with Hogwarts, but then “It’s all my fault” makes you think Ariana. And I’m inclined to think that since J.K. Rowling does love to quietly thread different elements, the fact that we learn about Ariana in the next book would tell me that the “It’s all my fault” is in regards to her. He could potentially be having multiple thoughts here, not just one.
Eric: Yeah, multiple visions, multiple… I don’t know. You tend to think of him as being… remembering childhood, too, because he kind of sounds like a child in many of these cases. I had forgotten… but the exact quotes are, “No, no, no, no, I can’t, I can’t, don’t make me, I don’t want to,” and, “Please, please, please, no… not that, not that, I’ll do anything.” So it’s kind of… it feels like a child is being chastised and made to wash their mouth out with soap, or go to their room or something. And it’s terrifying to see this great wizard, who we spent half the chapter going, “How does he know how to do this?” now begging for death, and it’s terrifying.
Andrew: Exactly, exactly. And that’s what makes it so hard to watch. And for Harry, too; he’s never had to deal with something like this for an adult teacher.
Eric: Oh, and the mental anguish of having to say, “Professor, this will end it, drink, this is good for you,” when he knows full well that it’s not good for Dumbledore, is a good character moment on Harry’s part.
Andrew: Oh, finally, you give him some credit now.
[Micah and Natalie laugh]
Eric: Yeah, I know. Harry, I guess, is pretty good at improvising in the moment and being like, “Okay, Dumbledore, this is good. Drink it.”
Natalie: This is so sad in particular, because as you say, Harry has never had to deal with this with an adult professor, but also, Dumbledore is a person that he’s looked up to through his whole time at Hogwarts, and he has this image of Dumbledore as being the most powerful wizard. And I was talking about this with my friend last night, and she was saying, “It’s so sad because it’s almost like when your grandparents become quite old and then you have to take care of them, and they almost revert back to being a child.” And how difficult it would be for Harry in this moment as someone who’s supposed to be guiding him to be going through this, and the role is kind of being reversed, and Harry having to soothe Dumbledore and tell him that it’ll be over. It’s quite a difficult and anguishing situation.
Eric and Micah: Yeah.
Micah: That’s a really great comparison. And one other thing just to note here that Laura brings up is that we know from Deathly Hallows Chapter 10 that Voldemort tested this potion out on Kreacher initially, and Regulus actually volunteered him for the task, and so it speaks a lot to why Kreacher became even more demented, in a way, than he maybe initially was. And we learn that Kreacher, in fact, went back with Regulus when Regulus did the locket swap, and he had to watch as his master drank the potion and was carried off into the water there. And I wonder… there was never an actual connection made, but it’s clear that Regulus is there somewhere.
Eric: Oh, God.
Micah: MVP of the week: Regulus Black.
[Everyone laughs]
Micah: Without knowing it.
Andrew: Who??
Eric: He’s the one that’s floating just inches below the surface, and Harry sees his face and is like, “Hmm, that guy looks familiar.”
Micah: “Sirius!” How creepy would that have been if he was looking down into the water, or one of the Inferi that come out of the water looks similarly to a Black family member we saw earlier on in the series?
Eric: Super creepy. I just… I do wonder – and this will be a Book 7 reread question – but why this doesn’t turn Kreacher fully away from the Dark? Seeing his master killed, essentially, by Voldemort. Because the Blacks were so in Voldemort… supporting his reign and all this other stuff, and seeing what it was really like to be firsthand in that, you’d be disenchanted. You’d think that Kreacher would be disenchanted the same way Regulus was. But perhaps he didn’t have time to explain.
Micah: Well, also, we should remember that Kreacher was living with a Horcrux for a period of time as well, so who knows what that did to him, on top of having drank the potion all those years earlier?
Andrew and Eric: Yeah.
Micah: And Laura wants to remind everyone that Slughorn isn’t the only one that likes to poison taste-test house-elves.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: Well, Slughorn is in good company, I guess?
Micah: With Voldemort?
[Natalie laughs]
Andrew: Yeah, probably not the best point to bring up, Laura, but okay.
Micah: They’re both Slytherins.
Eric: Both Slytherins, yeah. Natalie, what do you have to say for yourself?
Natalie: Oh my God, I don’t know.
[Andrew and Natalie laugh]
Eric: J.K. Rowling is bearing her fangs. This is not quite the whole “Every single Slytherin stays in the… gets put to the dungeons” kind of thing, but it’s pretty bad that these two Slytherins have taste-tested poison on house-elves.
Natalie: I can say I have not done that, so it’s not everyone.
Andrew: Oh, good.
Eric: Okay, okay.
[Natalie laughs]
Micah: So naturally, Dumbledore needs some water. He needs some refreshments after having drank this nasty ass potion…
[Eric laughs]
Micah: … and Harry tries, as he might, to summon water…
Eric: He’s like, “Oh, I know that spell. I know this one.” [laughs]
Micah: … but then realizes, yeah, he’s got to go down to the lake, dip the cup in, and get some water from there. By the way, would you really want to drink this water?
Andrew: No!!
[Natalie laughs]
Micah: Let’s talk about this for a second. There’s thousands of dead bodies that are floating in this water. It’s probably saltwater, too, on top of it, because I don’t think freshwater is coming in from anywhere. This is pretty gross water.
Andrew: Correct.
Micah: Why would Harry think that Dumbledore would even want to drink this?
Eric: He has no choice.
Andrew: Well, look, it’s better than nothing, even though it’s still pretty bad. I feel like this would just put him in worse health. If you’re drinking water that includes dead bodies stewing in it, I just know that can’t be healthy. Maybe Harry should have tried “Accio Dasani.”
[Eric and Natalie laugh]
Andrew: “Accio Gatorade.”
Eric: From the nearest village?
Andrew: Maybe Tom has a little mini-fridge of Gatorade sitting in the back of the cave for this exact situation.
Eric: I mean, the potion is deliberately meant to dehydrate you so that you ask for water, so that you break the surface of the lake, so that the dead come and get you. It’s specifically designed to function exactly the way that it does, so I’m not surprised at all, but what does surprise me is that the water Dumbledore drinks does seem to clear his mind a little. Even though he only gets one goblet in his mouth, and he’s just drank ten goblets of the poison, Dumbledore has a clear enough mind to be able to do everything… so the water really does help, even though it’s gross, stagnant, decomposition water.
Andrew: I liken it to when you’re feeling ill and then you throw up, and you feel so good afterwards. I feel like that’s what’s happening here. The worst part is over for Dumbledore, and now he can refocus. And maybe he just gets motivated by the fact that it’s done. They have it. They have the Horcrux.
Micah: So while Harry is being attacked by the Inferi, Dumbledore does this spell, which… did we ever learn exactly what the name of it was?
Eric: It’s not Fiendfyre, because Fiendfyre gets out of control. It seems to have the same kind of liquid quality to it in fire, but it’s just something that I think we’ve only really seen in the movies.
Andrew: Well, I’m thinking of the UK Half-Blood Prince cover. We see it there as well. It looks like a big old circular lasso fire there, I think.
Micah: And I don’t think it’s coincidental that Dumbledore mentions earlier on in the chapter that fire will work against these types of creatures, but fire is also representative of life, and the fact that it would hold off the Inferi, who are essentially zombies, I don’t think that’s coincidental. Life versus death.
Eric: And just think of Crimes of Grindelwald, what Grindelwald does with the flames. There’s probably a lot more flame-related magic that we’ve yet to learn about, how it works. I think that’s safe to say. We’re going to see that again, because Grindelwald is extremely good at it, and Dumbledore, historically, has been as well. So I would fully expect to see more flame-wielding. Maybe we will learn what it is, somehow, in future films.
Micah: Yeah. Well, that’s why I was asking if people understood what he said in the sixth film, because he actually says something…
Eric: Oooh.
Micah: … and then the flames sort of erupt. But maybe it’s just “Ring of Fire.” Maybe that’s all he says, and it just…
[Eric and Natalie laugh]
Andrew: He starts playing the song.
[“Ring of Fire” by Johnny Cash plays]
Andrew: This is the song that should have been in the movie.
Love is a burning thing
And it makes a fiery ring
Eric: Yeah!
Andrew: The TV show will include that song.
Micah: There you go. There you go. So Harry and Dumbledore make it out of the cave. Harry has to use his own blood for them to get out back through the wall; Dumbledore seems less concerned with that fact this time around. And so to Eric, your point, maybe it was just that he didn’t want Harry to be injured or weakened in any way. But also wonder, though, does it play into the whole Harry-has-a-Horcrux-inside-of-him, and so potentially could, through some means, Voldemort have found out that Harry was there?
Eric: Well, he doesn’t for another year…
Andrew: Yeah, I don’t know.
Eric: … so I’m going to say probably not.
Micah: Okay.
Eric: Just because the Horcruxes don’t talk to each other. Harry’s connection to Voldemort, where he can see into his mind and stuff, is the only connection in the books that I can think of of the Horcruxes having anything to do with one another interactively. So unless… Voldemort gets no indication that anybody… that the security of the cave has even been breached. None of those Inferi are able to pick up cell phones and call him and let him know, “Hey, your boy was here.” So I don’t know.
[Micah laughs]
Andrew: You would think this is something that Tom would have wanted to do, though: create these trip systems so he could be aware when one of these Horcruxes was captured or destroyed. That seems like a no brainer.
Micah: Yeah, you’re right. I’ve always been… that’s the one thing about the books that’s always puzzled me, is that Voldemort has never felt the effects of the Horcruxes being destroyed, whereas he very much feels that effect in the movies. And I think, Eric, you mentioned on a previous episode where it’s something that works for the books and works for the movies.
Andrew and Eric: Yeah.
Micah: But these are still parts of him, in a way.
Eric: Yeah, but they don’t destroy the Horcrux now. The Horcrux is perfectly intact, which may also be why Voldemort isn’t… they took a fake locket. That’s why he’s not notified, really, is that they had nothing to do with killing Voldemort here, unfortunately.
Micah: But the ring has been destroyed recently.
Eric: Yeah, the ring’s been destroyed. The reason I think and I say it works for the books is because Dumbledore makes the case quite clear that once you separate your soul, you’re just… I mean, it will keep you alive or whatever, but it’s separate. It’s completely a different entity entirely. It can act on its own; it can think on its own. And so it would be as if you knew what somebody at the other end of the world was doing, like if we could predict right now what Natalie’s neighbor is up to.
[Natalie laughs]
Eric: We just… that’s the difference, is we have no clue.
Andrew: Weird.
Micah: I also think it’s a bit of arrogance, though. I think arrogance plays a huge part into it, because he doesn’t think that anybody is going to be able to figure out his secret, much less if they do, destroy any of these Horcruxes. The diary was destroyed by accident; it wasn’t intentional.
Andrew and Eric: Yeah.
Eric: And that brings me to my point of none of the other Horcruxes have the same level of protection against them. We don’t know exactly what the ring in the old shack of the Gaunts’, what those protections were. I imagine they were actually quite similar or something, even though it’s just a shack and not this elaborate cave system in a fissure in the rock face. But Voldemort relied on the power of Gringotts to protect the cup in Bellatrix’s vault, and Voldemort relied on the power of Hogwarts in general to protect the diadem, which is kind of, I think, in its own way, careless. But he’s not necessarily wrong; it’s just that the locket has the unique distinction of being… all these protections are devised specifically by Voldemort, and this is what he comes up with.
Micah: Yeah. Well, and I do think it could have something to do with what each of those items meant to him, right? This is a locket that was Slytherin’s, and was for a period of time with his mother, and maybe the value that he placed on that was higher than anything else.
Eric: Happy Mother’s Day, moms.
Natalie: True.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: But information about Voldemort would certainly suggest otherwise. So we get back into the water; we do our perfect breaststroke back to the rock that we landed on.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: That is not noted in this part. I bet it wasn’t a perfect breaststroke.
Eric: A less than perfect breaststroke.
Andrew: I would take that boat out. Just take the boat.
Eric: Oh, yeah! Steal the boat.
Andrew: Steal it.
Micah: Why don’t they just Apparate when they got through the wall? Why swim back out to the rock? It doesn’t… whatever.
Eric: I think you probably can’t.
Andrew: Maybe he wanted to burn some more calories. He hadn’t hit his move goal for the day.
[Eric and Natalie laugh]
Andrew: The ring of fire didn’t do it.
Micah: All right, so…
Andrew: And that’s it?
Micah: We’re headed back to Hogwarts. We made it through the cave, and we’ll see what happens once we get back to Hogwarts.
Andrew: Did you mention the “I am not worried, Harry… I am with you” line?
Micah: Oh, yes. The tearjerker moment of the series.
Andrew: Yeah, it’s one of the most iconic lines in the series, I think. As we’ve seen hints of earlier in this book, Dumbledore really trusts Harry now, and this was a beautiful bonding moment for them. This entire chapter was. And Dumbledore is ready. I am so excited for the next chapter, because it is the chapter that I designed my ride for Universal around.
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: The Lightning-Struck Tower. I’ve been waiting for this moment. What perfect timing; Universal is about to open a ride, and I get to re-pitch my ride. Some of you listeners, you’re newer; you may have not have heard this yet, so you just wait for next week.
Eric: You’re going to have to add a few extra words for it to cut it up to speed with all the other rides they’ve got going at Universal, Andrew.
Andrew: Oh, yeah. Good idea. We’ll come up with some new ride names.
[Eric laughs]
Connecting the Threads
Eric: But speaking of… I don’t know if we’re going to connect all the threads that are in the document, because we do have quite a few. But just as internal correlation here, Dumbledore’s line – “I am not worried, Harry… I am with you” – is a complete reflection on the earlier chapter, Chapter 4, when they go to meet Horace Slughorn…
Andrew: Oh, yeah.
Eric: … and Dumbledore says to Harry, “I do not think you need to worry about being attacked tonight,” and Harry says, “Why not, sir?” and Dumbledore says, “You are with me.”
Andrew: That is cool.
Eric: So a nice flippy-flip.
Andrew: We should go through these threads just real quick. We don’t have to discuss all of them.
Micah: Yeah, Laura took the time to come up with them, so we should definitely skip over them.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: No, I’m just kidding. So the final scenes of both Chamber of Secrets and Half-Blood Prince take place in watery, underground lairs of Voldemort’s. It’s a good point. Harry is unknowingly dealing with a Horcrux in Chamber of Secrets, and knowingly searching for one here in Half-Blood Prince. Harry is accompanied by a powerful member of Hogwarts faculty in Half-Blood Prince, which leads him to recognize the power of magic when practiced with more nuance, in direct contrast to Lockhart’s screwy magic at this point in Chamber of Secrets.
Eric: Oh, yeah, they’re accompanied into the Chamber by Lockhart.
Micah: Harry uses Expelliarmus to stop Lockhart from wiping his and Ron’s memories. Who taught Harry Expelliarmus? Snape. Harry uses Sectumsempra against the Inferi in this chapter of Half-Blood Prince. Though it doesn’t work well in this case, he’s unknowingly using another spell Snape taught him. Great point. And in both cases, there’s a special requirement to get in. For Chamber of Secrets, it’s Parseltongue, and for Half-Blood Prince, it’s blood.
Andrew: That escalated quickly.
[Eric and Natalie laugh]
Game: Design Your Own Horcrux Hideout
Andrew: So we’re going to do a new game now. This was Eric’s idea: Design Your Own Horcrux Hideout, since we just explored a Horcrux hideout. Where would it be and how would you get access? So I’m taking a more serious approach here. We, of course, have spoken about how Tom Riddle hid his Horcruxes in places that are important to him, that are rooted in his history. For me, I would probably hide one of my Horcruxes… and I will remind everybody I’m the only one on this panel who would be willing to create a Horcrux. Nobody else wanted to do this, but I’m happy to do it because I think I’d like to have a backup plan. I would hide mine in my old family home backyard, and I say this because as a kid, I used to camp out there a lot, so it’s got that historical connection for me. And you would need to sleep overnight on the ground to access the Horcrux, and the Horcrux would pop out of a tree or pop out of the ground or something. Because I would always do that, and I enjoyed sleeping in the backyard as a kid as a little camp activity.
Eric: Aw.
Micah: I would go… well, why am I even telling you all this? Because that defeats the purpose.
[Everyone laughs]
Micah: I would probably do it somewhere deep beneath the Egyptian pyramids.
Andrew: Uh-huh. What connection do you have to the Egyptian pyramids?
Micah: Descendant.
Andrew: Oh.
Micah: Of one of the… I don’t know what I’m saying.
[Andrew and Micah laugh]
Andrew: No, it’s a good location, because we would never guess that that’s where you would hide it.
Micah: Yeah, exactly.
Eric: Presumably there are booby traps and other protections placed there, because the Egyptians were protecting other stuff down there.
Micah: Exactly. You’d have to get past a sphinx. There’d be a riddle.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: There’d be all types of different puzzles to solve and mazes to get through, and it would be quite the task. Though, I will say, why not just go over to the Harry Potter Collector’s house and hide it within the pages of one of those books? You’d never find it.
Andrew: [laughs] Micah, I would make it my life’s mission to find your Horcrux, because all I have ever wanted to do is kill you.
[Natalie laughs]
Micah: Wow.
[Andrew laughs maniacally]
Natalie: Talk about escalating.
Andrew: How’s that for a social media clip for the show, Jule?
Eric: Oh my God.
Andrew: Natalie, what would be yours?
Natalie: So my Horcrux would be in an enchanted poison garden, just a garden rife with poisonous plants. And so as the person is going through and trying to get my Horcrux, they’re being grazed by these plants and slowly dying. Just never get there.
Andrew: So would you actually die before you ever got there?
Natalie: Well, there’s another contingency plan that if the person doesn’t die, and they get to the Horcrux, it’s buried underground in the poisonous soil, and they have to dig it out with their bare hands. Can’t Accio it.
Andrew: Oh, I see. Hopefully…
Natalie: So they could try to kill me, but they would also die at some point.
Andrew: And Eric, what’s your idea?
Eric: So I kind of went a little bit English major-y on people here, just for fun. I was trying to think of what the most difficult tests I have faced in my life have been comprised of, and I know as an adult that it’s difficult to get another human being to read something. Anything, literally anything. To follow directions and reading instructions are some of the most difficult things. So the hardest test I ever had was in middle school, and I want to know if you guys had this too, if your teacher ever handed out one of those worksheets where question number one was, or step one was, “Read everything before doing anything.” Did you guys ever have one of these?
Andrew: Hmm. If I did, I forget it.
Eric: Yeah, I put an example in the document. So there’s 22 or so steps to the quiz; it’s basically a worksheet I think a substitute handed out during a slow day or something. And step one is, “Read everything before doing anything.” Then you have all these other crazy things, like “Circle around each square,” “Sign your name on things,” “Do math…” all this other stuff. And then when you get to the end, the final step is, “Now that you’ve finished reading everything, just do sentences one and two and put your head down at your desk,” and it’s the end. So my Horcrux thing would be basically one of these, where it says, “Read everything carefully before doing anything,” and then it would be feats of tremendous strength and all this other stuff to distract people, so they’d ideally just be fully distracted, but the real way to get the Horcrux would be to read, to listen, and there would be just… the Horcrux is under the rug, or behind the portrait of Garofalo’s “Allegory of Love” or something. It would just be a thing, and it would be there in the room, but because nobody follows directions, nobody would ever get it.
Andrew: I see. Interesting, interesting.
Rename the Chapter
Andrew: Okay, now let’s rename the chapter. Mine is Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince Chapter 26, “With You.”
Eric and Micah: Aww.
Eric: Touching.
Andrew: Yeah, thank you.
Eric: I think Micah may have stolen my thunder here, but I named the chapter Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince Chapter 26, “We’re on a boat.”
Micah: Oh, I got you. Because I said “We’re on a boat” earlier? Is that why?
Eric: Yeah, got you.
Andrew: I keep thinking of the Lonely Island song. I think it goes, “I’m on a boat, curse word, curse word. You don’t know me like thaaat!”
[Eric and Micah laugh]
Micah: Okay. All right, I went with Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince Chapter 26, “Last Action Hero.”
Eric: Love it. Great movie.
Natalie: Nice.
Micah: Since it’s the last time we will see our hero in action. Get it?
Andrew: Ah.
Micah: Well, our old hero. We still get the young one.
Andrew: Natalie?
Natalie: Mine is Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince Chapter 26, “Pain and Power.”
Andrew: Oh, I like that. Sexy.
[Micah laughs]
Eric: Okay!
MVP of the Week
Andrew: MVP of the Week. For me, it’s Dumbledore, obviously. I was the first person to write my contribution here, so I got the good one. Thank you. Goodnight.
[Eric and Natalie laugh]
Eric: I’m going to give mine, sort of jokingly, to the Inferi, because again, we don’t know exactly when they arrived there, but I just think they have tremendous patience. They waited for years for somebody to break the surface of the lake, just so they could go and say hi.
Andrew: Good for them.
Eric: So big MVP to the Inferi, yeah.
Micah: For obvious reasons, I went with Voldemort.
Andrew: Whoa, inappropriate.
Eric: Yeah, “obvious reasons,” Micah?
Andrew: Yeah. Cruel reasons, you mean?
Micah: Yeah, you can be MVP for bad reasons.
Eric: He does severely limit and hobble Dumbledore, so good for him.
Natalie: And my MVP of the Week: Harry, and I write here, for the sheer emotional distress. And also, he’s just a teenager.
Andrew: Yeah, he went through a lot. That’s a good point.
Natalie: Brava, Harry.
Eric: Brava.
Andrew: I will never not be shook by Harry having to feed Dumbledore that liquid. It’s just so sad and rough. Okay, so that’s Chapter 26. If you have any feedback, send it in – MuggleCast@gmail.com – or use the contact form on MuggleCast.com.
Quizzitch
Andrew: To wrap things up today, let’s play some Quizzitch.
Eric: Yes, last week’s question: What is the first spell that Harry casts at the Inferi? And he casts a number of spells, things like Sectumsempra, which don’t actually work because they have no blood to spill, speaking of spilling blood. The first spell is actually Petrificus Totalus! He full body-binds a dead body, and I guess it works, so good for Harry. The correct answer was submitted to us over on Twitter using hashtag #Quizzitch. It was submitted by Issy M., A Man Has No Name, Julianna C., Sarah D., Tara, Fluffy McNutters, Rebecca P., Samwise Potter, Jason King, Justice for Albus…
Andrew: Agreed.
Eric: @QuizJustice on Twitter, and Marlena. Congratulations to everyone who played and submitted.
Micah: Well done.
Eric: Yeah. This week’s question is… sorry, guys, it’s another pre-spoiler for the next chapter, but we’re all assuming you’ve read at least…
Micah: Snape.
Eric: Damn it.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: All right, I have to come up with a new…
Andrew: “How far does Dumbledore fall in kilometers?”
[Eric and Micah laugh]
Eric: Actually, we’re going to find that out on the ride details of next week’s Universal ride, right, Andrew?
Andrew: Yeah, I’m developing that. I want to make sure everybody gets hit hard when they fall some. But I don’t want them to die, so just trying to figure out the math there. Anyway.
Eric: Yeah, yeah. So next week’s question, anyway, is which Death Eater refers to Dumbledore as “Dumby” in the next chapter?
Andrew: [laughs] That’s me. I call Dumbledore “Dumby.”
Eric: We all call Dumbledore “Dumby.” It’s kind of cute. Voldy, Dumby… shorthand.
Andrew: I wonder if Petrificus Totalus being the first spell Harry tries is kind of a throwback to the fact that that was in the first book?
Eric: I’m just surprised it wasn’t Expelliarmus.
Andrew: Yeah, yeah. A little too obvious for the reader. All right, so you can send those in via Twitter, and we will also be playing that game over on Instagram. You can follow us on social media with the username MuggleCast, all three places: Twitter, Facebook, Instagram. We would love if you followed us, and you will stay abreast…
Eric: A perfect breast? Like perfect breaststroke?
Andrew: You will stay, yeah, perfect a-breaststroke of the latest MuggleCast and Harry Potter news that is happening. Natalie, thanks for joining us today. It was great having you on.
Natalie: Thank you for making my teenage dreams come true.
Andrew: [to the tune of “You Make My Dreams (Come True)” by Hall & Oates] “Making my teenage dreams come true, ooh-ooh!” We appreciate your support at Patreon.com/MuggleCast, and if you listening haven’t pledged yet, we would really appreciate your support. It helps keep this show going. Thanks, everybody, for listening. I’m Andrew.
Eric: I’m Eric.
Micah: I’m Micah.
Natalie: And I’m Natalie.
Andrew: Bye, everybody!
Micah and Natalie: Bye.