Transcript #435

Transcript for MuggleCast Episode #435, Into The Dark (OOTP Chapter 3, The Advance Guard)

Show Intro

[Show music plays]

Andrew Sims: Welcome to MuggleCast Episode 435. I’m Andrew.

Eric Scull: I’m Eric.

Micah Tannenbaum: I’m Micah.

Laura Tee: I’m Laura.

Andrew: And on today’s episode, we are discussing Order of the Phoenix Chapter 3, “The Advance Guard.” We’re also going to fill everybody in on some fandom happenings. But we are also joined today by one of our Slug Club members, Cristina. Hi, Cristina.

Cristina: Hi, everyone.

Laura: Hi!

Andrew: How’s it going? Welcome to the show. Where do you live?

Cristina: I am in very warm Marietta, Georgia.

Andrew: Oooh.

Laura: Wow, we are not that far apart.

Andrew: Why don’t you two get some coffee after today’s episode?

Laura: Oh, that would be lovely.

Cristina: Yeah, I’m that weird Colombian who doesn’t drink coffee.

Andrew: Oh.

Laura: That’s okay.

Andrew: Never mind, then.

Micah: You could always have some foreign tea.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Cristina, thanks for your support on Patreon. Let’s get your fandom ID.

Cristina: All right, my favorite book and movie are both Sorcerer’s Stone; that was my introduction. I am a Ravenclaw, my Patronus is a tortoiseshell cat, and my favorite member of the Advance Guard is, naturally, Remus Lupin.

Andrew: And we’ll talk about him on today’s episode of the show; that’s why we asked you that question. First, some fandom happenings: So we used to probably typically call these news items, but they’re not worthy of the news title, but they are happening in fandom, so we should still bring them up. So first of all, the official Wizarding World app is out. Has anybody here downloaded it yet? We spoke about it a few weeks ago.

Laura: I have not.

Cristina: I have not, but I checked the reviews this morning and most of them are pretty dismal.

Andrew: Oh, people are already reviewing it, huh?

Cristina: Oh, yes.

Andrew: Does MuggleCast have better reviews than the Wizarding World app in the Apple Store, I wonder?

Micah: I would hope so. We’ve been around just a little bit longer than they have.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Andrew: Yeah, so it’s nothing really to talk about. It looks like it’s just Pottermore within an app. There aren’t any special features yet, but we’ll keep an eye on it, see if they add anything interesting, like that new Sorting Hat quiz that they have been teasing.

Micah: Here’s the thing, Andrew: Give me a reason to download the app.

Andrew: Right.

Eric: Yeah, I want to hear friends talking about it, going, “You need this, and here’s why.”

Andrew: Here’s some more exciting information: MinaLima – they are the graphic designers behind the Harry Potter and Fantastic Beasts movies – they have released five different Harry Potter wallpapers, and they are freaking gorgeous. They have a Marauder’s Map one, a Black family tapestry, the Hogwarts library book covers, and the Daily Prophet wallpaper, and Quidditch wallpaper. That one is Golden Snitches against the blue sky. These are freaking so beautiful; I can’t get over them.

Eric: Yeah, this is really exciting. I know so many people who will be really heavily considering decorating their next room in their home with these wallpapers. Even the newspaper thing I’m looking at right now is kind of a classic habit for… either the bathroom would just have newspapers so you could read in the bathroom and stuff. So I’m just thinking of this really ups the game for all of my friends who do home remodeling and have just bought a place and will be decorating.

Andrew: The details on these are just stunning.

Laura: Yeah, I’m actually looking at either the Black family tapestry or the Hogwarts library book covers, because we are slowly but surely putting our office together and one of the things we want to do is we want to get floor to ceiling Hogwarts banners for our Houses and have them in here, so this would be a nice addition.

Eric: And their photo for the Golden Snitches one looks very Toy Story to me, very Toy Story.

Andrew: Yeah, that looks like it’s more for a kid’s room. The other ones look like they’re for adults, though.

Cristina: To be honest, I would probably put that one somewhere.

Andrew: [laughs] The only problem is these are a little pricey; it’s $110 per roll.

Eric: Sure.

Andrew: But I guess that’s what you would expect. This is official. This is probably printed on really high quality paper. But hey, it’s worth it for the Instagram, right? Think of all the likes you’ll get.

[Eric laughs]

Laura: Exactly. Do it for the like.

Andrew: I live for the like. Lethal White, the fourth book in J.K. Rowling’s Cormoran Strike series, is now filming. Has anybody watched the show at all?

Laura: I haven’t.

Eric: I saw the first episode; that was the only one I could seem to find. I think, Micah, didn’t you say recently they were on HBO? Or was it maybe Showtime that they aired?

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: No, they air on Cinemax.

Eric: Cinemax.

Micah: There you go.

Andrew: They were on the BBC in the UK.

Eric: That’s where I saw them.

Andrew: Okay. And when they aired on Cinemax, it was just like, “Who watches Cinemax?” So I never watched it. If it was on HBO, I would have probably been into it. But yeah, I haven’t seen it either. You’ve seen it, though, Micah?

Micah: Maybe I caught a piece of it here and there. I don’t have Cinemax, so…

Andrew: Yeah, no one does.

Micah: It’s too expensive. It also has a really interesting history as a station.

[Eric laughs]

Micah: It’s not always been called Cinemax, at least for most people.

[Laura laughs]

Micah: So it’s interesting that that’s where it’s ended up, of all places. But would it not be on BBC America if you get that station?

Andrew: No, this is one of those things where the BBC and HBO… it’s too insider; it doesn’t matter. But no, it’s not on BBC America.

Eric: Well, I did manage to catch the Cuckoo’s Calling adaptation, or at least, I think, the first half; they did, I think, a two-part 90-minute in two part kind of production, and I liked it. I thought the casting of Robin was really well. The casting of Strike was also good, but he’s sort of a more good-looking dude than Strike is in the book.

Andrew: Yeah, it seems like they de-aged him, because in the book you read Strike and you get the impression that he’s older.

Laura: And not very good-looking. [laughs]

Andrew: Yeah. Well, you know, they’ve got to Hollywood-ize it.

Micah: Wait, hold on a second. He’s in his 30s in the book, is he not?

Laura: He is.

Andrew: He might not be as old as I implied, but…

Laura: Yeah, no, he is in his 30s, but what’s always implied is that he’s definitely a rough 30s.

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Andrew: Yeah, this guy on the TV show is kind of cute. But hey, you’ve got to do that for television.

Eric: You do.

Andrew: So yeah, that’s now filming. Lethal White will, I guess, be on television next year. And if you’re into the books – which I think we all are – keep an eye on the TV series. And finally, there is a new Dark Arts show happening at Universal Orlando, running for the Halloween season. This is one of those light shows projected onto Hogwarts Castle. None of us have seen it yet, but there was also a Nighttime Lights at Hogwarts Castle show, as it was called, and that was super cool. Eric, I know you saw that one recently. This Dark Arts show recently ran at Universal Hollywood, too, so this isn’t entirely new, but it’s new for Orlando.

Eric: Well, and in Hogsmeade now in front of the Three Broomsticks they have this raised platform where actors as Death Eaters come out to music and fog. I don’t know if it’s throughout the day. I don’t know if it’s like one of those shows, like you’re watching Celestina Warbeck or something over in Diagon Alley, but I’ve never seen or heard of actors as Death Eaters running around the park before, so that excited me. And it’s all to promote this nighttime show, which, as you say, did debut in California first.

Andrew: I think the Death Eaters run around during the show kind of to make it an immersive experience. But these shows are also very short, so… [laughs]

Eric: Yeah, I’ve seen two videos of them doing it in the day, though.

Andrew: Oh, okay.

Eric: So that’s like they’re running around, so I was like, “Well, that’s not a nighttime show thing.” So yeah, cool stuff, though, and it’s nice to see Universal embracing the darker side of magic for people who are so inclined.

Andrew: And they probably want to do a haunted maze because Universal theme parks are very well known for their Halloween Horror Nights. People love going to them; I’ve been to them a couple times. But you would think they’d have a Harry Potter one by now. They have The Walking Dead, they have Stranger Things, they have all these other classic horror movies. A Harry Potter one would be great, but I think team Wizarding World hasn’t given them the green light on that yet, which is a bummer, because that would be so cool to go through the Forbidden Forest or have some sort of Death Eater experience like this show.

Micah: Definitely.

Andrew: Oh, well.

Cristina: They might think it’s too tame.

Andrew: Too tame? Yeah, usually these haunted mazes have chainsaws and stuff, right?

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: All right, well, a couple quick announcements before we move on: Are you subscribed to the show? I just looked at some stats, and 12% of listeners aren’t; that’s crazy. So please subscribe so you never miss an episode. It’s like getting an owl delivering some new Harry Potter goodness to your phone every week. And – this is some exciting news for some of our listeners – we are frequently asked by new listeners, “Why aren’t there more episodes on the show on the feed?” People will discover MuggleCast, they’re super into it, they start going back into our archive, and then it would end at like, Episode 210 or 12. That is no more. The reason the older episodes weren’t in there is because we used to delete them. I used to delete them. My bad, I’m sorry. I don’t know what I was thinking at the time. But anyway, we’ve been re-adding them to the feed, and now the RSS feed goes all the way down to Episode 59 from October 13, 2006. A few more are going to go in there. But whether you’re a new listener or not, you may want to scroll through that feed because there are a lot of iconic MuggleCast episodes, including Episode 100, which was our post-Deathly Hallows analysis episode. The 12-hour live show is also in there now. The classic episode titled “Laura’s Pants” is there as well.

Laura: Ah, yes.

Andrew: Micah, I know you’ve been wanting to listen to that one.

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Micah: Wow. I actually listened to it this morning before we sat down to record.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Every Sunday he turns it on.

Micah: But what happened there exactly, Laura? Do you want to explain? Didn’t Eric have them?

Eric: Oh, God.

Laura: Yes, so we went to Los Angeles for… the Podcast Awards? Was that it?

Eric: Yep.

Micah: Wow, yeah. That was early days, right?

Laura: Yeah, we had a couple hotel rooms because we were there with Leaky so we had, like, eight people that we had to accommodate, and I shared a room with Eric; you, Micah; and Kevin, I believe. And I had a super early flight out the last day, much earlier than all of you; it was still dark out when I left. And so I’m packing in a frenzy, of course. I’m 17 and staying up all night, every night, so I’m just frantically packing in ten minutes at the last moment before I get out the door, and I forgot a pair of my pants in the hotel room, and Eric very kindly mailed them back to me. But then in the middle of an episode, Eric just goes, “Hey, Laura, did you get your pants?”

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Eric: I thought it was the end of the episode. I thought it was a perfectly good episode talking about upcoming Deathly Hallows, we announce our book tour plans – I’m actually reading the thing now – and then I thought I’d just mention it at the end, but then the episode was titled after it because I guess it was a funny moment or something.

Andrew: Yes, it was just so out of context. Everybody was like, “What? Why do you have Laura’s pants?”

Laura: Right, there were a lot of questions that came up. [laughs]

Eric: So the title is misleading.

Andrew: And the ship began.

Eric: It’s not an entire MuggleCast episode about pants. It’s just not. [laughs]

Andrew: No, not a Chapter by Chapter analysis on Laura’s pants. Not a Thread by Thread, ha ha.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Anyway, lots of MuggleCast episodes now available on the feed. We’re very excited to do that because people were asking at least once a month, “Get those old episodes back in the feed.” So there will be a few more going in there. Unfortunately, there’s a limit: 400 episodes because of our podcast host. Hopefully they’ll change that. But right now, only the most recent 400 episodes will be able to exist in the feed. Only 400.

Micah: Andrew, one other thing I would add to that is for listeners to check out the Wall of Fame over on We’ve had a number of interviews over the years as well, and I think most of them are good enough to check out. But we’ve spoken with the producer of the Potter films, David Heyman; that was back on Episode 200. David Yates, who directed half the films, Oliver Phelps, Evanna Lynch, Warwick Davis, and several others, but those stand out to me.

Andrew: Yeah, that’s a great point. is where you can find that.

Listener Feedback

Andrew: Time now for some feedback. We got a lot of comments about our discussion on foreign tea. It turns out us four Americans were missing a crucial meaning behind “tea,” and why don’t we hear one of our English listeners explain it to us?

[Voicemail plays]

“Hi guys, Mike here from England, although I’m actually living in China at the moment, teaching English. Your podcast is great; I’ve been listening for about five years now, and especially here it’s really good to keep in touch with the fandom, and also kind of a bit of a taste of home away from home, which is really nice, so thanks for that. I just wanted to make a quick comment about one of the discussions you were having last week when you were talking about the second chapter of Order of the Phoenix. Now, as a Brit I can understand why, when people from outside of the UK read ‘tea,’ they think it means the drink tea, which is true, but also, ‘tea’ means dinner here in England. So when they say that Piers – or Dudley, sorry – is going to Piers’s house to have tea, they mean Dudley is going to Piers’s house to have dinner, which would also make more sense out of when Vernon said, ‘Maybe they gave you some of the foreign tea.’ He actually means foreign food, which, again, doesn’t necessarily make his comments right, but yeah, it might just help piece together what he meant a little bit more. So yeah, just wanted to send that in, guys, and see what you thought about it. Look forward to hearing the next episode, guys. Please keep up the good work. Thanks again, bye-bye.”

[Voicemail ends]

Andrew: Thank you, Michael.

Laura: I love this. That actually makes it make so much more sense.

Andrew: It does, but why would they call eating food “tea”?

[Eric laughs]

Laura: Because I think he’s right that when you’re having tea, there’s often accompanying food items with it, so I can see why you would sort of naturally call, like, “Oh, we’re sitting down for tea,” meaning, “We’re going to have a meal,” right?

Eric: Yeah. So Michael asked, “Does it make the comment less racist?” I think it does if it means that Vernon is saying Dudley just has a weak stomach, like, “Oh, I bet the…” Maybe he’s actually giving the Polkisses credit for getting takeout from Indian, Asian, other countries, versus maybe the Dursleys themselves just do British meals, like your bangers and mash and all that. Though, I guess it’s Irish.

Laura: I think it’s still racist. [laughs]

Micah: Yeah, don’t absolve Vernon here.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Oh, I’m not trying to absolve Vernon. I’m saying does this information…? What is the…? So having this context now, what do we then take to our chapter analysis from this?

Micah: I think what Andrew is trying to say is if you can change the name of an entire book, why not just say he got some bad food for us Americans here, right?

Andrew: Right, yeah. Well, and I just think it’s silly that you English folk call food “tea.”

Micah: Oh, stop. Andrew, you’re going to… do you know the emails we’re going to get now?

Eric: You went for it. You went for it.

Andrew: With all due respect, I just don’t understand it. When I have food, I call it “food.”

Laura: You know what? I cannot wait for people to email in calling us out for dumb things that Americans say…

[Eric laughs]

Laura: … because I’m sure it’s out there. We’re not considering it because we are Americans, but I am sure that there’s something that we say that to outsiders makes no sense.

Andrew: For sure.

Eric: I bet it’s aluminum. Aluminum. People hate that we say aluminum.

Laura: Oh, yeah. We say aluminum wrong.

Micah: No, I would just even start with how everybody interacts with each other here in America. “Sup. Sup? Sup.”

Andrew: “Sup.” Yeah, Jamie would always make fun of that. “Sup, man.”

[Laura laughs]

Eric: Well, what is sup? I want to know. And to sup is to eat, so there you go. That’s a full circle.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Sup, supper.

Eric: Supper.

Laura: No, you know what I love about this, though? This is evidence of the fact that as the books went along, they stopped Americanizing them so much.

Eric: Yep, I hate it.

Laura: Yeah, I hated when they were doing that early on in the series.

Eric: Oh, no, I wanted them to do it. I hate that they stopped. I really…

Laura: No, these are quintessentially British stories. Let them be British.

Eric: “Trainers”? I always think of a personal trainer, like Harry has got a physical therapist that he’s lacing up. That’s a problem for me, I guess.

Laura: Ooh, you know what? That’s actually a good one. Why do we call them sneakers?

Andrew: Yeah, what are we doing? Sneaking?

Laura: Yeah, what does that even mean?

Cristina: See, I actually grew up calling them tennis shoes.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: Yeah, tennis shoes too.

Laura: I grew up calling them sneakers because that’s what my parents called them, and once I got to a certain age, I was like, “But why? Why do we call them this? What is the history of this word?”

Eric: I would be in favor of… I know every time a new Harry Potter book cover comes out I’m like, “Man, we don’t need another one of these.” But if they got the American translators to just do Books 5, 6, and 7, I absolutely would buy the “Here, we’re going to hold your hand, American kid.” Change every “tap” to “faucet,” change “mad” to “crazy” everywhere, because it just… it’s a difficulty of understanding issue; I have issues comprehending foreign things. So I could just either have an open mind, or I could buy these handholding editions that I want.

Andrew: It’s barely foreign, though. I mean, they’re still speaking the English language.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: It’s just they have different words, just like “trainers” versus “sneakers,” “tea” versus “food.”

Eric: Apparently.

Andrew: Anyway. Well, thank you, Michael, for calling in with that. By the way, I think he recorded a voicemail on his phone and then emailed that in; that was obviously very good quality. So if anybody ever wants to do that, just record a message with your voice memos and just email it to us. We can play that on the show instead of that phone line quality that you get when you use our number. Micah, do you want to read this email from Jeff? This is in defense of Mundungus.

Micah: Oof. All right, so Jeff says,

“I just wanted to put in a quick defense of Mundungus and Dumbledore’s decision to employ him as a lookout on Privet Drive.

First of all, both J.K. Rowling and Dumbledore have made a point throughout the books not to underestimate someone based on their appearance or superficial qualities. From the lowly house-elves, Dobby and Kreacher; to the unassuming Neville; the convict Sirius Black; the werewolf Lupin; former Death Eater Snape; and Muggle-born Hermione; we are constantly reminded not to take someone at face value. Also, Dumbledore knows that assigning important responsibility to someone encourages them to rise to the occasion. He probably has good reason to trust Mundungus and is hopeful he can fulfill this mission and, as a denizen of the underworld, contribute to the Order in ways others can’t.

Secondly, there is only a small chance Harry will be in danger on any given day on Privet Drive. He doesn’t really need constant protection so much as a lookout to call for help if needed, and Mundungus should have been capable of this. That he failed and left Harry defenseless was not inevitable – Mundungus could have been quite valuable to the Order if he had made different choices.

Unfortunately, Mundungus didn’t rise to the occasion, and even worse, it appears Dumbledore didn’t learn from this experience and continued to trust Mundungus – to dire consequences later. But this first assignment was a good opportunity to prove him. Thanks for the consistently great podcast!”

Andrew: All right, well, I guess I can get behind that, but as Jeff points out, Mundungus ends up being a flop, and Dumbledore still trusted him, and I think that’s where some of our frustration came from. It’s like, how didn’t Dumbledore see this coming?

Eric and Laura: Yeah.

Laura: I mean, to be fair, Dumbledore trusts Hagrid and Hagrid screws up multiple times over the course of the series.

Andrew: Whoa, whoa. But Hagrid is nice.

Laura: Yeah, but the thing is we like Hagrid, so we forgive him. We don’t like Mundungus, so we…

Cristina: I guess maybe the thought is that with how shady Mundungus is, maybe he would hear chatter from the Dark side and be able to let them know ahead of time if maybe there’s a plan underway. But other than that, yeah, I question that decision too.

Eric: Yeah. I mean, at least last week in our discussion, I think we were very much basing it on Mundungus’s actions. We weren’t saying, “Oh, he’s a smuggler criminal, so we should hate him because he’s a smuggler criminal.” We were saying, “Here’s a smuggler criminal that completely left Harry very vulnerable in a time of need.” Okay, that’s accurate.

Micah: What about Dobby? Where is he?

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Yeah, anyway. Well, presumably Harry can just call his name and he’ll show up at any time.

Andrew: [sings] I’ll be there…

[Eric laughs]

Micah: Well, wouldn’t he have been a better person to post than Mundungus?

Eric: That’s actually a good question.

Laura: Yeah, because Dobby doesn’t answer to anyone anymore, so it’s not like he can be forced to hand over information. Come on, Dumbledore.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: But where’s Dobby going to…? I guess he could just sit invisibly somewhere. That would freak the Dursleys out and the other neighbors on the street if they saw that house-elf around more than Mundungus, even though he looks pretty creepy.

Eric: Now that we think about it, Dobby has probably a good working of Privet Drive, because he probably spent most of the summer there blocking Harry’s letters in Book 2.

Laura: Right, and nobody ever saw him at that point, so I presume he’s able to at least keep himself hidden in some way.

Eric: In bushes, yeah.

Cristina: But then with his loyalty to Harry, wouldn’t it have been really hard for him to not get in the way if he sees Harry being mistreated?

Eric: Oh, that’s a good point.

Andrew: And he would want to talk to Harry really bad, so he’d start beating himself up with a lamp. Well, if you want something foreign to your daily routine, we have a new sponsor this week.

[Ad break]

Chapter by Chapter: Seven-Word Summary

Andrew: All right, time now for Chapter by Chapter, Chapter 3 of Order of the Phoenix, “The Advance Guard.” And let’s start with our seven-word summary.

Micah: Tonight…

Andrew: … the…

Laura: … guard…

Eric: … rides…

Cristina: … into…

Laura: We got this, guys.

Micah: … Grimmauld…

Andrew: [laughs] … Place.

Laura: Woo!

Andrew: Tonight the guard rides into Grimmauld Place. I thought it was going toward “Tonight the guard rides into… [sings] the dark.”

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Eric: Into the night sky.

Andrew: All right, that was an easy one.

Chapter by Chapter: Main Discussion

Eric: Okay, so this chapter coming off of… the first two chapters were really, really, really heavy. Lots of stuff about the Dursleys and their treatment of Harry, and this, that, the other thing. This is the chapter where Harry finally escapes, but it starts off in a place of some anger, and the opening of the chapter sees Harry scribbling a letter furiously three times. He sends it to Hermione, to Ron, and to Sirius, and his letter says, “I’ve just been attacked by Dementors and I might be expelled from Hogwarts. I want to know what’s going on and when I’m going to get out of here.” And the thing about this… so I don’t think there’s anything unreasonable about his request, because everything that he says that happened to him did just happen to him, but he waits for Hedwig to return from a hunt, she returns, she doesn’t even get to eat her frog or whatever, and he straps these letters to her and tells her to peck at each of his friend’s fingertips until they’ve written substantially satisfyingly, substantially long letters in reply. So he’s not going to sit for any other vague kind of just quick-witted, “Oh, can’t talk; we’ll do more later,” kind of thing. He’s actually instructing Hedwig to attack his friends, and I think this is a new low for Harry.

Laura: He’s also really mean to Hedwig. She flies in, and he’s like, “Put that down. I’ve got work for you.” Like, whoa!

Andrew: And he instantly feels bad about that, but that’s the place that he’s in. He has to lash out at even the animals, the adorable never-done-anything-wrong animals. Though I’m also just thinking, Eric, while you were describing that, karma is a bitch because he’s about to get his hand torn up by Umbridge later in the book.

Eric: Oh, man!

Laura: Oooh, good point.

Andrew: So that’s what he gets for wishing danger on his friends’ hands.

Eric: Yeah, it just… it is actually a good indicator of where Harry’s head is going to be for most of this book. He is so desperate; he’s been driven to the point of desperation that he’s actively causing harm to his friends. I think you see… correct me if I’m wrong, Laura, do you remember we see their fingers are bandaged later? [laughs]

Laura: Yes. Yeah, he definitely sees the evidence of Hedwig’s pecking.

Eric: And she’s just being a loyal bird. She’s just like, “Okay, I’ll go do this.”

Micah: I’ll defend Harry here, though; I don’t see much wrong with what he’s asking Hedwig to do. He wants a response. And you can’t just put some Neosporin on the pecks?

[Eric laughs]

Micah: Or I mean, use some magic to make it feel better? I mean, come on. They have things for this.

Eric: Yeah, it’s true.

Micah: It’s not fair to ask Hedwig to do that, though. I don’t think she probably enjoyed doing it. But I don’t blame Harry; he’s been cooped up in the house all summer, he’s not getting any answers from anybody, he’s being told what to do, he’s not hearing from his friends… this is all he has left to try.

Eric: Yeah, I’ll agree with you there. It’s important to point out that these are just flesh wounds that can be remedied by most modern magic. But my whole thing is, Harry is putting the blame on the wrong people, so the fact that Hermione and Ron aren’t saying anything useful to him, by his estimation, is to do with not only the state that the Ministry is in, watching every letter, but also Dumbledore’s orders. They’re just following Dumbledore, and so he’s causing physical harm to Hermione and Ron, but it’s really Dumbledore he should be angry at.

Andrew: Yeah. Harry also debates the source of the Howler very briefly, but I was also wondering – and we didn’t really get at this much in our last chapter discussion – how many options are there in terms of who sent that Howler? Isn’t Dumbledore the one obvious choice?

Laura: Well, I think the issue is he doesn’t recognize the voice.

Eric: Dumbledore is using his angry voice.

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Andrew: [angrily] “REMEMBER MY LAST!”

Eric: [laughs] For me, the confusion always ends up with the word choice. “Remember my last.” Last what? I don’t understand the use of the English language like that. But as we’ve learned today, I don’t understand a lot of the English language.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Andrew: But that was the genius of it, and I think somebody wrote in about that. That’s the genius of it. It’s mysterious. You do have to think about it.

Eric: Right.

Andrew: If it got too specific, it would be boring.

Eric: Yeah, Petunia gets it, which is definitely the whole point.

Andrew: Right.

Eric: She knows who it is.

Andrew: Do you have to yell when you record your Howler? Does it just put a filter on your voice to make it sound like you’re yelling? Everybody’s yelling.

Eric: Huh. I think it magnifies the voice automatically.

Andrew: [laughs] Yeah, there’s no way Dumbledore…

Laura: I feel like there would be some catharsis in recording your Howler when you’re yelling, because you don’t get the satisfaction of yelling at the person, so you get it out in that moment. You’re like, “Ah, okay, I’m done.”

Eric: That’s so…

Andrew: But would Dumbledore yell? I don’t think he would.

Eric: Well, would you whisper into…? If you’re sending somebody a Howler that they have to open or it explodes and reveals the contents the message, would you really whisper something? I’m thinking of Molly Weasley when she chastises Ron for the flying car and her…

Andrew: Right.

Eric: Arthur’s nearly lost his job. Would she be saying what she says in a calm manner? Heck no, she would absolutely be screaming it.

Andrew: In that case, no, but Dumbledore sitting in his office, [calmly] “Remember my last.” I think that’s how he would say it. And then the Howler Howlerizes it: “REMEMBER MY LAST!”

Laura: I don’t know. This does… it is really interesting because people love calling out Michael Gambon for his performance in Goblet of Fire.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Yeah!

Laura: He’s like, [intensely] “Harry, did you put your name in the Goblet of Fire??” And then in the book that line is like, “Harry, did you put your name in the Goblet of Fire?” said Dumbledore calmly. It’s like, okay, maybe there is canon evidence to suggest that Dumbledore does yell sometimes.

Eric: Maybe. So Petunia gets the Howler; wanted to mention Petunia here real quickly. There’s basically a three or four day period now, because Harry sends Hedwig off at the beginning of the chapter; three days go by with nothing. Now, it’s an interesting time jump. We’re, of course, getting to the events where Harry is about to be rescued, but during that time, I might have expected that the relationship between Petunia and Harry would change. We had that big, huge moment in Chapter 2 where Petunia says, “No, the boy stays,” she described that she knows Dementors, and Harry felt some kind of a kinship to her. But over the course of these three days, Harry doesn’t leave his room except to go to the bathroom, and Petunia brings food and she puts it through the cat flap that has been there since Book 2 when Vernon installed it. And so there’s no heart to heart; there’s no follow-up between the two of them. Did anybody else think that this was missing or…?

Micah: She’s going to do her best to stay away from Harry at this point. I think we need to remember who she’s married to and the pretense that she’s trying to uphold, the persona that she’s trying to put out there, and I think we got what we’re going to get from her in this book. We obviously learn more later on in the series, but I’m not surprised, and I would think she would almost want to stay away from Harry because I would assume that he would have a lot more questions. But I wanted to touch on the part that you brought up about feeding him through a cat flap, and I just thought, given our conversations in the first two chapters, this just speaks further to the child abuse that Harry is enduring: the fact that he’s being fed through a hole in the door, and even later when they’re going out to the award show when they’re getting the Best-Kept Lawn award, Vernon tells Harry not to steal from the fridge. “Steal.” He uses the word “steal.”

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: So the treatment that Harry is receiving here, again, it’s just unbelievable.

Andrew: Yeah, you’re right. I also don’t totally understand why they’re using the cat flap, because Harry can still go to use the bathroom. He says that. He says he can use the bathroom.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: So it’s not like he’s locked in, unless he’s asking for the door to be temporarily unlocked. But I guess it just speaks to how Petunia can’t even physically face him right now, so she just drops the food through that little cat door.

Eric: Yeah, and I wonder, though, if Dumbledore’s letter has re-solidified her barrier being up.

Andrew: Probably.

Eric: I wonder if anything in that letter told her not to tell Harry anything. I wonder if Dumbledore’s letters served the purpose of keeping more secrets from Harry, at the same time that it…

Andrew: Well, she’s kind of been exposed, so she probably feels ashamed right now, and these old feelings about her relationship with Dumbledore just… not a very serious relationship, just her interest in becoming a witch have been brought to the surface, those feelings. So I don’t think… she probably acts weird around Vernon right now as well because you know Vernon is wondering, you know Dudley is wondering. It’s probably a rough time for her.

Eric: Yeah, that’s a good point. That’s a character analysis I was hoping for. So the other thing that is left by the wayside after Chapter 2 is Dudley’s physical, mental, emotional state. We don’t know how his recovery is going following the Dementors, and it was… he was very violently ill last chapter, but because Harry is in his room for several days and then all the Dursleys leave together, presumably by the end of day three or four Dudley is able to go to this lawn competition thing that they’re going off to that’s a big ruse. But we don’t actually know what the process is like, and I just feel like maybe Harry shouldn’t necessarily care about Dudley, but I would like to have known, because he’s not doing anything. He’s just up in his room. I’d like to know how Dudley’s recovery went, what that looked like.

Laura: I have a feeling the Dursleys wouldn’t want Harry to know about that, and they would be trying to shield Dudley from him as much as possible, which is probably the reason that Harry has been locked away in his room, right? To limit the exposure that he has to his cousin. And I just think that because they probably don’t want their neighbors to know… they care so much about what everybody thinks of them; they probably don’t want people to see Dudley going through any kind of recovery and make anybody ask questions.

Eric: Yeah, it’s just… there is sort of a switch that turns on here in this chapter and it becomes completely okay to laugh at the Dursleys again, is what I wrote, because the whole Best-Kept Lawn thing is hilarious, [laughs] but it’s very much a tonal shift from… Harry may have caused his cousin irreparable physical and emotional harm in the previous chapter, so it’s like something…

Micah: Well, Harry didn’t.

Eric: Well, Harry by way of being magic and attracting magic.

Cristina: Well, that’s the thing, the interaction between Dudley and the Dementors. How do we know that it’s…? We just assume that what he saw from his experience is what changed his attitude between now and the end of the series. What if it was actually some kind of a health effect? We don’t know. We don’t know how Dementors actually affect a Muggle.

Andrew: Well, yeah, it could have been, and I wouldn’t even be sure that the Dursleys are being very helpful in helping Dudley recover. I mean, they seem to like to keep their head in the sand when it comes to their son’s wellbeing.

Laura: Right, I could very much see Vernon telling Dudley to just like, “Get it together.”

Andrew: Yeah, man up.

Laura: “Stop being a pansy” and like this other crap.

Andrew: Yeah, exactly.

Micah: “Man up. Give ’em the old one-two.”

Andrew: “Oh, you’ll get over it. You don’t need a therapist. You don’t need any sort of psychiatrist. You don’t need to talk to anybody.”

Cristina: Just another way to further ignore the fact that magic does exist and you have a wizard living in your house.

Eric: Yeah, for sure. So as Micah mentioned, Vernon does come into Harry’s room. He says, “We’re leaving.” He says, “Fine.” “Don’t steal any food from the fridge.” Harry says, “Fine.” And shortly thereafter, Harry hears a crash downstairs and voices, and this is the moment that I think we’ve been yearning for as readers since the beginning of the chapter. Harry feels so alone, but then all of a sudden, he looks down from the top of the stairs and sees Mad-Eye Moody, Remus Lupin, and a bunch of witches and wizards. Nine people! Nine people from his world are finally here to rescue him, and immediately things are looking up.

Andrew: Yeah, and I found it odd that the first person Harry has to see is Mad-Eye, because he was Barty Crouch, Jr. last year…

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: … and Harry probably still has PTSD over this, and the first person he has to see is Mad-Eye? It doesn’t seem like they thought that through. Lead with Lupin. Enter and yell, “Hey, Harry, are you here?” Oh my gosh, Lupin, everything’s cool. Nothing to worry about. But no, it’s Mad-Eye, the guy who was not who he really was last book.

Eric: That’s a good point. J.K. Rowling had an interesting and unique challenge in this book to write this same character that she’d written last year, but as a completely different person. But I think that she did well enough in the beginning of Goblet of Fire when he was days from retirement to show kind of what his character was, and she immediately leans really heavily on comedy to convey that this Mad-Eye Moody is a good time guy, and he’s super cool and is capable of self-deprecation. And the greatest thing that I think of about Moody in this chapter is he really seems to own what happened to him, and he’s moving past it, like when he’s talking about his magical eye that’s sticky ever since that imposter wore it and asks Harry for a glass from the dishwasher. It just is very sort of gruff in the way you’d expect from a warrior wizard, but comedic, and like I said, he just acknowledges the past and that’s the only way to move on from great trauma like Mad-Eye has suffered – and like Harry has suffered – is to really acknowledge the journey.

Andrew: I like how Mad-Eye cleans his eye like beer pong players clean their ping pong balls.

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Andrew: Just throw it in the cup, swish it around a little bit, it’ll be fine. There won’t be hair in your beer the next time it lands in a cup.

[Laura laughs]

Cristina: You know, it’s funny; we never find out what happens to that glass of water afterwards.

Eric: [laughs] It’s just sitting on the dining room table.

Andrew: You know Petunia would put that in the dishwasher.

Laura: Immediately, yeah. [laughs]

Andrew: This foreign glass.

Cristina: But that’s assuming Dudley didn’t rush inside and…

Eric: Dehydrated from his recent Dementor attack.

Cristina: Or want a snack or something.

Laura: Okay, let’s be real: Dudley Dursley does not drink water.

[Everyone laughs]

Cristina: This is a fair point.

Eric: So now the chapter doesn’t have too much going on, but we do… well, it will in a moment when we get to Tonks. But I wanted to do a run through of the Advance Guard, because these are people who, in some ways, have their neck on the line for Harry. Some of them he’s actually met before, and others he hasn’t. So I wanted to run through the list, kind of talk about who’s here, because it does get lost in the shuffle. But first of all, the most familiar face in the crowd, Remus Lupin. It’s so great after the drought of Remus Lupin in Book 4 to have him here be front and center in the rescue party for Harry. Do you guys like seeing Lupin?

Andrew: Yeah, and Harry is desperate for communication from Dumbledore or his friends and this is probably the best person who who could come out, besides Ron and Hermione. So seeing him so quickly must have been a huge relief.

Eric and Laura: Yeah.

Micah: Agreed.

Laura: But I think as readers, it also makes us wonder what he’s been through, because Harry notes that he looks older and even patchier than ever.

Eric: [laughs] The funny thing about that is… I’m pretty sure this is the start of it, but J.K. Rowling really fell into – I think it’s a bad habit of – describing Lupin that exact same way every time that she sees him.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: It’s definitely in Book 6, but in Book 5 I really want to track this because we’re going through, but every time Lupin shows up, there’s something about either grayer hair, tattered-ier clothing, or just looking haggard and more tired than ever before. It’s just… it gets to the point where by Book 7 you expect Remus Lupin to be walking around naked.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: It’s just… there’s no more clothes; they’ve just all just fallen off of his bones. It’s nuts.

Andrew: Lupin is crawling.

Laura: Well, I think that it’s intended to imply that his condition is taking a toll on him.

Eric: Yeah, absolutely. It’s just funny because I think she might be guilty of overusing it. But it’s important, obviously, to set the scene for where Lupin… because we haven’t seen him for a year, it’s important for there to be noted differences like this.

Micah: Maybe you just catch him every night or every day after a full moon or something, and that’s why he looks the way he does. I mean, but I agree with Laura. I think it’s more to just show the toll that his condition is taking on him. Probably what Dumbledore has tasked him with as well is extremely emotionally and physically draining, this underground task that he’s on. I don’t know if we learn about that later on in this book or later on the series, I forget, but he’s going through some rough times.

Cristina: Could it maybe be intentional just a little bit? Or at least in terms of his clothing, if he’s trying to work on the secret mission, maybe he doesn’t want to look like the cleanest and most kept person.

Micah: Yeah, that’s a great point.

Eric: I think that’s fair, yeah. So just moving on there, the only person that I think Harry has met before – besides Mad-Eye and Remus – is Dedalus Diggle. This is a guy that once bowed to Harry in a shop before Harry knew he was a wizard. He also met him, I think, at the Leaky Cauldron in his first year. And sure enough, Dedalus Diggle is here as a member of the Order of the Phoenix and the Advance Guard, and I think this is really special, because Dedalus Diggle is clearly a Harry Potter fanboy.

Andrew: Yeah, he is.

Laura: Very much so. Yeah, what I find so interesting about this is that Remus makes this remark to Harry at one point of saying… it was, “A surprising number of people volunteered to come get you,” and we’re led to believe that it’s because most of these people just want to lay their eyes on the Harry Potter, and I’m like, “That’s great, but where were y’all when they needed people to watch him?”

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: That’s a boring job, that’s why.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: Yeah, that is a good question. Were any of these people in the watch that Mundungus was a part of? That were keeping an eye?

Andrew: This is exciting. It’s a little adventure, a little night out on the town, plus flying over London. It’d be exciting.

Eric: Yeah. The only thing that I think of when I think of Dedalus Diggle, though, is in Book 1, McGonagall kind of throws some shade. He actually… so Dedalus Diggle, in addition to Sirius Black, gets a mention in Book 1, Chapter 1, and it’s when McGonagall says that he was probably the one who was shooting stars, breaking the Statute of Secrecy up in Kent. And she says, “Bet it was Dedalus Diggle; he never had much sense.” So I think that McGonagall probably thinks that Dedalus Diggle is a little lightheaded, little, I don’t know, impulsive maybe, probably not the best fit for your Harry watch guard. Fortunately, it never comes to a head that he is anything other than delightful. He, of course, in Deathly Hallows, as a reminder to people, is one of the people who comes back to Privet Drive to usher the Dursleys to safety, which is actually pretty cool. Another member of the Advance Guard is Hestia Jones, and she is also seen again in Deathly Hallows when she comes to escort the Dursleys to safety, so I liked that more than one person that we meet in the Advance Guard are there… well, they’re here protecting Harry, but eventually they’re protecting the Dursleys, and in Book 7 things are so much more serious for the Dursleys, so it’s important to have good witches and wizards guiding them out, basically. And then the only other thing I had about Hestia Jones is she finds a potato peeler very funny; she is laughing at it when Harry comes downstairs, so that’s pretty funny. But there’s a couple people who will become very important very shortly from now, namely, Sturgis Podmore. This is a guy who works in the Ministry. He is actually on guard duty in a couple weeks from now, and he’s guarding, I think, the Hall of Prophecy, but he’s going to be dragged across the Daily Prophet in a couple weeks when he’s apprehended by apparently a Voldemort Ministry… the HP Wiki said it was Lucius Malfoy, actually, who tried to Imperius him to go into the Hall of Prophecy and steal a prophecy. I’m sure we’re going to read about this in a couple chapters, but Sturgis Podmore is… he’s a good guy who we’re about to see get dragged for the cause for Harry, so that’s really interesting. And Emmeline Vance, Micah, do you want to take just what I wrote on her?

Micah: Sure. So one other member that shows up is Emmeline Vance, and we learn that her death actually occurs nearby the Muggle Prime Minister’s office, and it’s mentioned several times early on in Half-Blood Prince. And even more so, her loss is understood to be a really critical blow to the Order of the Phoenix. And yeah, I’m just really impressed overall by the quality of people that are sent to get Harry, just from an experience standpoint. I mean, Kingsley Shacklebolt, future Minister of Magic, is there, and I know this is really the first time Harry and him interact with each other. I also really liked the interaction that took place between Kingsley and Lupin, how they were just talking with each other – a lot of that just gets lost in the movie – and they seem to be relatively close and know each other relatively well, and Kingsley actually knows James and Lily, and that’s something, again, that I don’t think comes across as much in the movies.

Laura: Yeah, honestly, a lot of these characters… I think Kingsley and Tonks are both really good examples of characters that I don’t think were done justice in the movies.

Eric: Absolutely.

Laura: And especially, I mean, we’re going to get into Tonks in a moment, but I will say that after rereading this, I found myself disappointed in the way that she was presented in the movies. No shade towards… it’s Natalia Tena, right, who plays her?

Eric: Yep.

Laura: She’s great. It’s just the writing was not there, unfortunately.

Eric: Yeah, we kind of see her be like a kid best friend to Harry. She’s very, very, very impulsive and clumsy and cute and funny, in a way.

Andrew: And she’s the youngest one there.

Eric: Yeah, and that sets her apart from everybody else. So I’m glad we got to talking about Tonks. We actually… so she goes upstairs in just a moment to help him with his trunk, but Harry, being immersed in all of these people who are wizards, asks them for answers. And this is, I think, a pretty big turning point, at least for the moment. The quote for the book is,

“‘Er – yeah,’ said Harry. ‘Look – what’s going on, I haven’t heard anything from anyone, what’s Vol-?'”

And then he gets cut off. It says,

“Several of the witches and wizards made odd hissing noises; Dedalus Diggle dropped his hat again, and Moody growled, ‘Shut up!’

‘What?’ said Harry.

‘We’re not discussing anything here, it’s too risky,’ said Moody.”

So unfortunately, Harry is still not getting any answers from anybody.

Micah: But what’s so risky, though? I mean, isn’t that…? It’s a safe house, essentially, that they’re in.

Eric: Yeah, protected by one of the strongest charms there is, so what’s the danger?

Andrew: But these people are also the type of people who don’t like saying “Voldemort” out loud, right? So it might have to do with that as well.

Eric: Oh, that’s actually a really good point.

Andrew: But it’s probably a combination of both things, I would think.

Micah: Laura, you had a really interesting question here that I actually laughed at.

Laura: Which question?

Micah: At least I think it’s yours; the coworkers one?

Eric: Oh, that’s me.

Micah: Oh.

Eric: I just tried to imagine what it would be like for this group of adult wizards who are… sure, they’re all in the Order together, but they traveled cross country in a huge group, there’s all this secrecy, Moody is every step of the way going, “This is important, this is too risky, we can’t take risks,” and then they’re going to get this 15-year-old moody teenager from an empty house in suburban England. Like, what is that? Can you just imagine? I know we all have friends from work, or groups of friends that are, like, eight people. Just imagine you and your best friends, mid 30-somethings, going and picking up this 15-year-old teenager, and a random one, too, just nobody you’ve ever met before. What would that be like? I just think it’s kind of funny and surreal to think of what must be going through the Order’s head at this moment, or the Advance Guard’s head at this moment.

Andrew: But it’s not just any 15-year-old boy, so I think they find a lot of purpose in it. I think they they see that it is a good use of their time, and it won’t take up too much time. And it’s Harry freakin’ Potter; these people are obsessed with him.

Eric and Laura: Yeah.

Laura: I think it’s a good point, though, because – Micah, I knew you’re pretty familiar with this – traveling with people you work with is a little weird.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: But guys, it’s like, two hours. This isn’t some trip across the country.

Laura: No, no. But did you ever, for instance, Andrew, when you were in school go on an overnight field trip with people you went to school with, and it’s like you’re taking people that you normally only see in one environment, and you’re all in a different place? It is strange.

Eric and Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: I think you guys are just bad at socializing with other people. This is no problem for me; I can adapt wherever I am.

Laura: That is crap.

[Everyone laughs]

Cristina: It definitely… see, when I was in high school, I went on several trips with… I was in chorus, and we did several trips, two to New York, one to Orlando for a competition, and you definitely get to know your friends differently, and not always for the best. So once you get out of high school or they graduate, you don’t necessarily keep talking afterwards. So I could just imagine how weird it would be with coworkers.

Eric: Yeah, and the reason I asked this… there’s these little things like Sturgis Podmore and Kingsley Shacklebolt; they probably don’t work really closely together, but they bond over the microwave in Privet Drive.

[Cristina and Eric laugh]

Eric: They’re just like, “Look at this piece of technology,” [laughs] and they’re talking about it. I’m like, “What would they have to say to one another about it?”

Andrew: Do you guys think that this little trip was good or bad for Tonks and Lupin’s relationship?

Eric: Oh, it’s too soon for that, but probably bad, right? Because she chastises him for using her first name. She’s like, “No, dude, I go by Tonks, because my crazy mother.” So yeah, let’s get to Tonks. So Tonks is awesome. This has been the coverage of Tonks in this chapter. [laughs] She’s visibly the youngest member. She has problems with authority. She hates her name. Tonks is the punk teenage goth that we all wanted to be.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: I think, right? I mean, but she’s successful at it, too, is the thing. She’s got just enough talent that even in the beginning of this chapter when we first meet her, she proves why she’s along on this mission. And I don’t know; even though Harry is not getting the answers he wants, Tonks’s presence there, I think, calms him in a very understated but huge way.

Laura: Yeah, well, I think she’s easier to relate to for him than anybody else, because one, she’s really not that much older than him, and two, she’s an Auror, and that kind of takes his mind off of everything that’s going on and allows him to be laser focused on asking her questions about that, because that’s the only career path he’s ever had in mind.

Eric: Right. Yeah, and furthermore, it was her brilliant idea to send a letter, Muggle post, to the Dursleys saying they’ve won the All-England Best-Kept Suburban Lawn competition because she’s familiar with Muggles. She says her dad was Muggle-born, Ted Tonks. But it’s her idea to send that letter that gets the Dursleys out of the house, so it’s her plan that they are all enacting right now, and I think that makes Tonks especially badass.

Andrew: Yeah. How could the Dursleys be so stupid to think that their lawn was actually nominated for this, though? I mean, this is crazy.

Eric: In the middle of a drought season, too. Nobody’s lawn is winning any awards until the rain comes back.

Andrew: And what is the…? Are the judges driving around all of England to find the best-kept lawns…

Micah: Of course they are, Andrew.

Andrew: … and theirs just happens to win? They all look the same. This just speaks to how desperate the Dursleys are for anything special to happen to them, and their lives are so boring that they get excited for this, and they dress up and they’re going out. What losers.

Cristina: Well, that’s the thing, it’s just another reason for them to – assuming it was real – for them to be able to hold it over their neighbors, stick their noses in the air, and act like they’re better than everyone else.

Andrew: True.

Cristina: So of course they’re going to believe it.

Micah: What do you get? Is it a trophy? Is it a certificate? Is it a golden lawnmower? Can you put it out?

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: I was going to say, I think they get a special set of lawn gnomes.

Eric: Oh, man.

Andrew: Ah, beautiful.

Eric: I was going to suggest golden shears, but I like the lawnmower better. But yeah, it’s something chintzy like that. But this is what I’m saying; coming off of last chapter, this is a stark contrast. It’s all of a sudden totally cool to laugh at the Dursleys again, right? Like it’s, “Oh, the Dursleys. Of course they’d be fooled by this, ha ha ha,” and move on without any kind of consequences as to the events of the beginning of the chapter had on their family, so just interesting. But perhaps the most interesting thing about Tonks, from a standpoint of setting her aside from others, is that she is a Metamorphmagus, and she can change her appearance at will. We see her doing this. She asks Harry to comment on the color of her hair, and he’s like, “What?” And she changes it. But this ability, apparently… so this is a new branch of magic we’ve never heard about before in any of the other Harry Potter books. Apparently she’s born with it, so she can’t really… he asks her – to your point, Laura, he’s distracted successfully, so he’s asking her questions – and apparently you can’t really learn this. But other wizards who are also Aurors, some of the categories that they have to go through are concealment, detection, these other things. They have to use potions and transfiguration and spells to do what she can just do naturally.

Laura: I’m really jealous. I would save so much money on my hair…

[Eric laughs]

Laura: … if I could just turn it whatever color I wanted at will.

Eric: You have gorgeous blue hair right now.

Laura: Thank you.

Eric: It was green moments ago, wasn’t it? Are you a Metamorphmagus?

Laura: [laughs] I wish.

Eric: Recently it was green, though, right?

Laura: It was, yeah.

Eric: That’s cool. That’s super cool. Yeah, so there’s some obvious conveniences that we would change, like hair dyeing. I’ve also done that a lot this past year. But then there’s other practical conveniences, like Tonks says to Harry, “Bet you’d like hiding that scar, wouldn’t you?” And this is obviously very important to Harry as a person.

Andrew: It is. But I’m also thinking – and we discussed this recently in one of our Sorcerer’s Stone episodes because Harry brings up his scar and whether or not he should have it, or we discuss his thoughts on having the scar visible – but I’m just like, “Why not throw some makeup on it?” If you really want to hide it, give it a try. We all have blemishes, and sometimes we throw a little makeup on. I do all the time. If I had a scar and I didn’t want people to know who I was, I would throw some makeup on it for a day, and maybe he’ll realize, “Oh, I actually kind of liked this attention; let me just rub the makeup off.” No problem.

Eric: That’s a good point that he is never… Harry never at Hogwarts, for instance, has tried to research how to conceal his scar. He’s just kind of being himself, I guess.

Andrew: There’s got to be a spell for hiding it, right?

Laura: Well, and the thing that’s interesting about this is that before Harry finds out that he’s a wizard in Book 1, he remarks that the only part of his appearance that he really likes is the cool lightning bolt-shaped scar on his forehead. So there is a point where he has an affinity for that, but then it becomes something that sort of makes it difficult for him to have any privacy.

Eric: Yeah, it starts tingling, it gets uncomfortable, and all that kind of stuff, so I definitely agree. But I did have an idea: So we kind of touched on it already, but what would each of us do? We’ll start with Cristina. What would you do if you were a Metamorphmagus? If you could change your face and stuff at will to blend in or whatever. How would you use it?

Cristina: I would totally use it on my hair. Yeah, I’d love to change my hair color; I’ve never dyed it. But at the same time, if you can change the length of your hair… yeah, it’s a little dorky, but I would get it as long as possible and then get it cut and donate it because that’s already something I do and it makes me feel good, so why not?

Laura: That’s awesome.

Eric: Oh, man. I thought you were going to Rapunzel it, and be like, “I’m going to get it as long as possible and then jump out castle towers.” [laughs]

Cristina: I did not jump out of a castle tower, but I did get it as long as possible once. I think it was, like, 11 years without cutting it…

Eric: Whoa.

Cristina: … and then when I was 15, I just got tired of it.

Eric: Yeah. Unbelievable. That’s super awesome.

Andrew: So a Metamorphmagus can transform into any human, but we never learn if they can transform into an animal. If they could, I would definitely want to transform into a bird so I could fly around.

Eric: Well, I think the difference between Metamorphmagus and Animagus is that Animagi obviously transform into an animal, but Metamorphmagus can take on… I understood it to not be a full transformation. Tonks herself does give herself a pig nose at some point to make Ginny laugh; I think it is later in the book. But yeah, she could probably do an animal face, like turn her face into a horse’s or something.

Andrew: Yeah, in the movie she turns into… is it a duck face, it looks like?

Eric: Oh, yeah, the bill.

Andrew: So I don’t… yeah, I would like to be… I guess it would just be cool to be somebody else for a day just to see what their life is like. Then I don’t know what you would do with that actual person.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: I guess you would have to hide them like Barty did Moody. But yeah, this would be a cool skill to have.

Eric: Yeah. For me, I would try and get really good at celebrity impersonations and Metamorphmagus would just help me do that. [laughs] I’d do a good George Clooney or a good Tom Hanks or a good Bruce Willis or something just by Metamorphmas-izing myself into them. So that’s probably what I would use it for, is a stand-up routine.

Andrew: How about you, Micah?

Micah: I’d go for a full beard. I can’t really do it, so…

[Andrew and Cristina laugh]

Eric: Nice.

Micah: Despite what I looked like earlier in our Patreon hangout. Andrew, you look like it’s improved, right, for you? I feel like all three of the male hosts here have…

Andrew: What’s improved?

Micah: Your ability to grow a beard.

Eric: Yeah, it’s true.

Andrew: Oh, I just haven’t shaved in a few days. That’s my problem.

Eric: No, but we can’t really do it, right?

Micah: No.

Andrew: I can.

Micah: I mean, I could, but it would just be patchy.

Eric: Yeah, same. That’s a good point.

Andrew: This section of the show brought to you by Harry’s Razors.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: So moving on here – that was fun – moving on, we do get a mention of Andromeda, Tonks’s mother, and this will come up in a couple chapters when we’re doing the Black family tree. But Andromeda Black is actually the most badass character that J.K. Rowling has ever written, as far as I’m concerned, mostly because she sticks it to her sisters, Narcissa and Bellatrix, about being evil and goes off and marries a Muggle. But it’s an interesting insight into who Andromeda is as a person, because we’re meeting her daughter. So Tonks obviously has a problem with her name; she says, “You would hate your first name too if your fool of a mother had called you ‘Nymphadora.'” And also, she kind of praises her mother’s domestic spellwork because when she’s cleaning up Harry’s trunk, she says, “My mum’s got this knack of getting stuff to fit itself in neatly – she even gets the socks to fold themselves – but I’ve never mastered how she does it – it’s a kind of a flick -“ And then she…

Andrew: I would like that.

Eric: Yeah, right? It would just be super cool.

Andrew: I like being organized.

Eric: But it’s interesting to learn that magic can be that specific. How does a sock know that it belongs as part of a pair to another sock and knows that it belongs on top of the robes, the books…? How does everything sort itself in? Well, it’s magic, but it’s intentional magic, and I think there are wizards and witches… we don’t see this area of spellwork a lot, but there’s people who are really, really good at moving around these things that have different properties, and even just something as simple as packing them away in a trunk. I think it’s really cool magic to witness. Do you guys agree?

Micah: Sure.

Cristina: I’d love to be able to do that to just put up my clean laundry every week.

Laura: I hate cleaning, so this would be great.

Eric: [laughs] So then Tonks and Harry have a conversation. She uses a transportation charm; she says “Locomotor Trunk” to carry his trunk downstairs. Here’s a question…

Andrew: No.

[Micah laughs]

Eric: Why doesn’t Tonks using this spell set off the charm, the watch, the trace that is in Harry’s house?

Andrew: Because she’s doing the spell; that’s why. And adults are allowed to use magic; they just can’t be seen, whereas kids can’t use it at all.

Eric: But according to the books, the magic, the Ministry doesn’t know who casts a spell in a Muggle residence. This is how Harry gets busted in Book 2, is the Ministry didn’t know that it was Dobby the house-elf that caused a Hover Charm to drop the cake on the Masons’ head, so Harry got busted in Book 2. Now Harry is on trial for using magic in a Muggle area in front of a Muggle, so why doesn’t this spell – or any of the spells that the Order is doing, really – send an alert? I would think that the trouble in this is the Advance Guard would have to not use magic. That would be why they have to go on brooms. That would be why they can’t just Apparate out of here. My whole thing is this should have been about the trace.

Laura: I was wondering if… I had two thoughts here: One, I feel like Dobby’s magic would register differently with the Ministry, because we know that the Ministry already doesn’t regard non-wizards the same way that they regard wizards. Even Squibs… they don’t have it in their registry that Mrs. Figg lives on Privet Drive because they don’t keep track of Squibs, because…

Eric: Is that canon? What’s the reference for that? That’s been mentioned a couple times, but I forget reading about that.

Laura: I think that it was actually in the trial, where they say, “We don’t have a record of…”

Eric: Oh, got it.

Laura: “… a witch or wizard living on Privet Drive,” and she’s like, “Well, you wouldn’t, because I’m a Squib.”

Eric: [laughs] Right. Okay, got you.

Laura: So I’m wondering if Dobby’s magic would register differently than an adult wizard’s magic would. And the other thing is that the Dursleys aren’t there right now, so there’s technically not any risk of a Muggle seeing magic being performed because they’re inside the home.

Andrew: Right.

Laura: I do agree; I would like to know how this works exactly, but I feel like those are the two loopholes we can work with here.

Micah: Yeah. I would add a third, which is that Tonks is an Auror, so why would you need to question her use of a spell?

Eric: Ooh. So Aurors have some kind of extra protection about performing magic in front of Muggles.

Andrew: But she’s not performing it in front of any Muggles.

Eric: Yeah, but she’s in a Muggle dwelling. But yeah, she is of age too, so I don’t know. Maybe there’s something to it. I just thought because Harry doesn’t cast the spell in Book 2 and gets in trouble for it… and I’m sure that’s part of Dobby’s design as well to keep him from going to Hogwarts, that Dobby makes the spell seem like it came from Harry or something like that.

Micah: But why are you just focusing on Locomotor Trunk? I mean, she uses other spells before that.

Eric: Yeah, the clean up spell.

Micah: She cleans up Hedwig’s cage, she puts all the stuff in the trunk…

Eric: That’s what I’m saying. Yeah, there’s all these spells; Locomotor Trunk was just the most recent one. Because ultimately, her and Harry could take one side of his trunk and just carry it down. This is the point…

Micah: But it’s not… to me, what it comes down to is not underage magic. This is not… Tonks is not underage.

Eric: Right.

Micah: So that’s why it’s not an issue.

Eric: But a spell is being cast in Privet Drive, just like it was in Book 2, that Harry got in trouble for using magic in front of Muggles when he didn’t do it. The trace can’t tell it was him.

Andrew: Why do you want Harry to get in trouble again? Why can’t you just be happy for Harry?

Eric: That’s what I’m saying, so I’m…

Andrew: Give him a break.

Micah: Right, but to Laura’s point, it was done by a house-elf, and maybe the Ministry can’t tell the difference between a house-elf and Harry. They’re roughly the same size in Book 2, right?

Andrew: We’re going in circles now.

Eric: Yeah, I think we have sufficiently covered this. But if listeners think that it’s a problem or not an issue, fine. Write in; that’s cool. So moving on, Harry goes downstairs, and this is when Moody puts a Disillusionment Charm on him. Here’s the thing: They rule out Apparition. They say, “You’re too young to Apparate,” but we know that this is not strictly true as of Book 6. Now, Harry leaves Privet Drive in Book 6 with side-along Apparition; he just holds Dumbledore’s hand and they do it. Side-along Apparition in Book 6 is talked about; I think the Weasleys talk about doing it with their mom and pop when they needed to get places. You can side-along Apparate a child or somebody that’s younger than 15. So really, is this just a case of J.K. Rowling not having invented side-along Apparition yet?

Andrew: I think maybe. She also kind of backs herself into a corner with the Invisibility Cloak versus the Disillusionment Charm, because she couldn’t give everybody Invisibility Cloaks because then that would make Harry’s less special, so what can she do to make them all invisible? “Well, I’ll make them half-invisible, where you can still see them but they’re transparent, so they’re kind of invisible.”

Laura: So I have a question here. I am confused by this moment, and also the moment in Book 7 when they’re all taking off from the Dursleys’ garden on broomsticks. They clearly take measures like Disillusioning Harry to make it so nobody can see him, but is it really reasonable to assume that nine people could take off from a Muggle garden on broomsticks and that nobody would notice that? And I bring this up because there’s one point where they’re flying and Moody is like, “Hard left, hard left, there’s a Muggle looking up!” They clearly know people can see them, so what is this?

Andrew: Well, let’s think about this literally. So yes, on the climb up, you do risk being caught, but if they’re several hundred feet up into the air under the cover of darkness, they probably wouldn’t be seen.

Laura: Yeah, that part I’m okay with. I’m talking about literally being in a Muggle garden and all these people taking off on broomsticks.

Eric: And the neighbors are always watching; this is one of those neighborhoods.

Laura: Yeah. So I was wondering, is there something special about Lily’s blood magic that also extends to making any magic performed within the parameters of Privet Drive not visible to other Muggles?

Andrew: What if at night all the residents in the neighborhood are just inside watching TV?

Eric: Well, we see Moody has the Put-Outer in this chapter. Maybe he used the Put-Outer on the inside but we didn’t hear it because they crashed into the kitchen. I think maybe they Apparated into the kitchen? How did they even get in the…? I don’t really understand. But yeah, so I just think that it’s a really good question that you’re asking because…

Andrew: Yeah, it seems risky for sure. They should have all had Disillusionment Charms on them, I guess.

Cristina: And to further that point, what about when they land in Grimmauld Place? They land in an open park. Are you telling me that area is so run-down that there’s not one person who would see a group of nine plus Harry land in a park on broomsticks?

Eric: Public property; nobody’s walking their dog?

Cristina: And that’s before he puts out the lights.

Laura: Exactly. Yeah, I was thinking that. And it was a little easier for me to buy this, because she established it as like, okay, there’s broken windows, maybe not a lot of people don’t live in this neighborhood. Maybe it’s deserted. I’m like, okay, I can suspend my disbelief for that. But Privet Drive, I’m like, people clearly live here, and it seems like it doesn’t matter what time of day you’re leaving; you should be exercising better safety precautions.

Eric: Maybe this is indicative of how Aurors work, which is if they… they’re clearly preparing Harry to be attacked by Death Eaters or something like that. Their focus is on concealing Harry specifically, and only him, and one of them says something like, “If we die, if we don’t make it, we’re going to do this and this and this.” So they’re preparing for what ends up happening during the Seven Potters of just an ambush, so maybe their theory is “We don’t need to account for anyone who sees us, because we have people at the Ministry,” like the memory eraser people that can just go out and fix anyone who sees them.

Laura: Yeah, that’s true.

Eric: Yeah, so their big thing… maybe that’s standard operating procedure for Aurors is to not think about the Muggle consequences, necessarily. I know, like you said, Moody says, “We’ve got to turn left,” but I think maybe they’re just… because they’re preparing for so much of a higher level that anything like this is just bureaucratic. They could just send an intern to go wipe some memories.

Andrew: Maybe they all drank Felix Felicis.

[Eric laughs]

Micah: There you go. One question I did have, though, is given the experience level of the Advance Guard, what kind of level is the Rear Guard?

[Eric laughs]

Micah: We hear about them very briefly, but I wonder who makes up the Rear Guard? They have to be more talented in a way, I would think, if this group of people falls.

Cristina: I was wondering the same thing, who are they? You can’t mention them and not at least give us a hint who’s in it.

Eric: Well, she can, and she did. Is it…?

Andrew: Mundungus Fletcher is in it.

[Micah laughs]

Cristina: Probably.

Eric: Dung, Snape…

Micah: Dumbledore.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Eric: Dumbledore is like, “Okay…”

Micah: He’s got to be in the Rear Guard.

Eric: Yeah. Wow.

Andrew: I don’t think they would be better. You think of a baseball team, you have those players that are the backups that never actually play, because they suck.

Micah: The bench players?

Andrew: Yeah, the bench players.

Eric: Yeah, but the Rear Guard is there just in case the rest of everyone else dies and Harry still needs to….

Andrew: Which is unlikely, despite what Moody says.

Eric: Yeah, yeah. So that’s pretty much the end of the chapter. They land and Harry is given the slip of paper, which we know that is written by Dumbledore, and it says that the headquarters of the Order of the Phoenix is located at Number 12 Grimmauld Place.

Andrew: And I look forward to talking about the physics of Grimmauld Place in the weeks ahead. I just… I don’t get it. I don’t get it.

Eric: It’s just like the movie, right?

Andrew: Right, but when the house comes into existence, the people in the homes next door aren’t stretched, aren’t squeezed.

Eric: Yeah. Well, the house was always there, but it was our perception of the house that changed.

Andrew: But when you walk into those neighboring homes and you turn to the left or right, there’s nothing there? Anyway, we can talk about it, sure.

Eric: Yeah, we’ll talk about it later. One thing that did not change this chapter is the Umbridge Suck count. I tried, you guys. I tried to pin something on Umbridge, but I can’t.

Andrew: [laughs] Nothing. Okay. Well, that’s okay. We don’t want our blood to boil too much throughout this Chapter by Chapter series.

Eric: Right.

Connecting the Threads

Eric: But over at Connecting the Threads, we have a couple here, including a specific mention of Book 3. So Harry is on his broomstick. He’s very, very cold. It’s raining; he wishes he brought a jacket. And he’s reminded of the Gryffindor versus Hufflepuff Quidditch match in Book 3, where the Dementors attacked him. So really, just the Prisoner of Azkaban and Order of the Phoenix connections are going pretty strong, and this is a direct mention of it, so I thought that was pretty cool. We already talked about Dedalus Diggle being mentioned in Book 1 while they were in the same physical location, Privet Drive. Also, Petunia and Vernon back to form; their self-absorption is a recurring theme throughout all of the books. And you guys added some.

Laura: Yeah, so we see Harry meet Lupin again for the first time since Book 3, and Lupin is able to identify Harry by asking Harry to confirm the form that his Patronus takes; also a really nice callback to Prisoner of Azkaban. And at this point in both Prisoner of Azkaban and Order of the Phoenix, Harry is experiencing this general anxiety about being expelled from Hogwarts and forced to live as a fugitive, [laughs] so that was also a nice callback.

Micah: Yeah. And then in Chapter 3 of Prisoner of Azkaban, it’s the Knight Bus that rescues Harry, and in this chapter – also Chapter 3 – of Order of the Phoenix, it’s the Advance Guard that ends up rescuing Harry. And I also thought about this as we were recording: In both of the Chapter 3’s, we’re introduced indirectly in Prisoner of Azkaban to the actual Prisoner of Azkaban, Sirius, even though he’s in dog form, and then we’re introduced to the Order of the Phoenix – indirectly, again – with the Advance Guard in this chapter.

Laura: Oh, very cool. I like that.

Micah: And we did leave out one member of the Advance Guard, and I think he’s probably important given his role later on in the series, and that was Elphias Doge.

Eric: Oh, yes!

Micah: Also because I think we could potentially see him in Fantastic Beasts.

Eric: I definitely agree; I can’t believe we overlooked him. But Dumbledore’s best friend from childhood, who was going to travel the world with him, had dragon pox growing up, Dumbledore’s sister dies, he can no longer travel the world, and he ends up writing Dumbledore’s obituary. Yeah, I can’t believe we overlooked him.

MVP of the Week

Eric: Time for MVP of the week. Andrew, who’s your MVP?

Andrew: Mine are hands, for dealing with evil people…

Eric: [laughs] What?

Micah: Hands?

Andrew: … Harry, Umbridge… thank you, hands.

Eric: What is…? Huh?

Andrew: Your hands; they’re going through a lot. Ron, Hermione’s, Sirius’s hands get pecked.

Laura: Oh. [laughs]

Andrew: And they have to deal with that, and then thinking later in what Umbridge does to Harry’s hands.

Eric: Now it makes sense.

Andrew: Good job, hands.

Micah: All right. Well, I will then give my MVP of the week to Hedwig, not for pecking at people’s hands, but just for being loyal to Harry, really being the only friend that he has, and giving up her dinner to go and do what Harry is asking of her. She can’t even finish that frog before being sent back out of the house.

Andrew: Poor Hedwig.

Laura: I’m going to give mine to Mad-Eye for staying vigilant. Gotta give it to him.

Eric: Yep, it’s good to practice what you preach. That’s for sure.

Andrew: “Constant vigilance!”

Eric: [laughs] You sounded so much like Brad Neely, the Wizard People, Dear Reader guy right there, Andrew.

Andrew: Oh!

Eric: Yeah, that was classic. I gave my MVP of the week to Tonks because I just think it’s endlessly funny that she dreamed up this whole England’s Best-Kept Lawn competition, and that that’s the plan the Order goes with to get Harry out. They could have just shown up and put the Dursleys to sleep, but they didn’t. They did something exceptionally cruel.

Cristina: I’ve got to give my MVP of the week to Lupin for being the one person out of a group of nine to instantly be able to calm Harry down when his emotions are all over the place.

Andrew: Yeah. Thank you, Lupin.

Rename the Chapter

Andrew: And now let’s rename the chapter. Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix Chapter 3, [intensely] “WE’RE ALL GONNA DIE!”

[Laura laughs]

Micah: Is that your…?

Andrew: We didn’t talk about it, but Moody was really grim when he was laying out the mission.

Eric: Interesting choice of word there, Andrew; “grim.”

Andrew: Yeah, I totally did that on purpose.

Micah: I was going to say, was that your Brendan Gleeson impersonation as Mad-Eye?

Andrew: [laughs] Yeah, I guess so. I couldn’t think of a good chapter title, so I had to add an interesting voice to it.

Micah: Yeah, this was a tough one. This was a tough one. I went with Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix Chapter 3, “Actually, your lawn’s a piece of shit, Dursley, and so are you.”

[Everyone laughs]

Laura: I went with Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix Chapter 3, “Check Your Buttocks.”

[Eric and Micah laugh]

Andrew: That’s a good one, too.

Micah: Forgot all about that.

Eric: Yeah, another good Moody joke throughout. He’s very much comic relief. I went with Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix Chapter 3, “Pink Hair, Don’t Care.” Tonks is a punk, everybody.

Cristina: I went with Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix Chapter 3, “The Boy Who Sassed.”

Laura: Oh, I love it.

Andrew: Oooh, I like it. If you have any feedback about today’s discussion, email it in,, or use the contact form on You can also call us, 1-920-3-MUGGLE, or like I said earlier, record a voice memo with your phone and email it to That’s actually kind of cool because it’s higher audio quality, as we heard from Michael’s message earlier in today’s episode.


Andrew: Time now for Quizzitch.

Eric: Yes, last week’s question: What is the make and model of Nymphadora Tonks’s broom? She actually elects to tell Harry that she is riding a Comet 260. She’s impressed, mightily impressed, by his Firebolt. Congratulations to the people who submitted the correct answers over on Twitter; they include Sarah Davis, Doll Hearts, Joe Tyner, Mara Willis, OrangeGopher9, Greg and Polka, Patronus Seeker, MayorMuggle13, and Retta Gambo, among others. We are posting tweets with all of your names in them, your little… at your little…

Andrew and Micah: Handles.

Eric: Handles, thank you… handles over on Twitter now in lieu of reading everybody’s full name out on the show, just to save some time. And next week’s question is as follows: To what does Fred Weasley equate time in the next chapter? The concept of time. It’s got to be an eagle-eyed reader of Chapter 4, “Number Twelve, Grimmauld Place” to find that.

Andrew: All right, you can play Quizzitch on Twitter. Our username is @MuggleCast. We’re also on Instagram and Facebook, where we are also @MuggleCast. Please like or follow us; you’ll be able to stay up to date on on the show, the latest Harry Potter news, some behind-the-scenes looks at the shows, some fun memes that we find, etc., etc. Thank you for following us on social media. We just crossed 4,000 followers on Instagram, y’all. Woohoo! Milestone.

Eric and Micah: Woo!

Micah: Let’s go.

Andrew: [laughs] Let’s go? Where? To 5,000?

Micah: Let’s go to Boston.

Andrew: Oh. What are you doing in Boston, Micah?

Micah: Just me… no, Eric and I will be at LeakyCon Boston, just a few weeks away at this point. It is October 10-13 at the Seaport World Trade Center. And actually, we have some news; I think we can share this, right, Eric?

Andrew: Finally.

Eric: I think we can, yeah. Finally.

Micah: I think we can, yes. So there will be three main panels that Eric and myself will be participating in. Eric is actually doing a couple of others as well, which I’m sure he can talk about. But we will be doing sort of a retrospective panel called “Podcasting with Potter”; that’s going to be on October 11 from 3:15 to 4:15. We’re going to be doing a joint session with the folks over at Pottercast called “Name that Character.”

Eric: LeakyMug!

Micah: What?

Eric: [laughs] Here’s our LeakyMug, basically.

Micah: Yes. You know what? Actually, we haven’t talked about this, but we should mix the teams up. It shouldn’t just be us versus Pottercast. We should have fun with it.

Eric: No, it should absolutely be us. This is the old rivalry. We have to put in a good… do you not want to work with me? Is that the problem?

Micah: Well, we need a third.

[Eric laughs]

Micah: We can’t just be three on two. We need to find a third.

Eric: We’ll get an audience member.

Micah: We’ll get an audience member, okay. That will be on Saturday from 3:15 to 4:15, and then our live MuggleCast will be taking place on Sunday the 13th, 11:30 to 12:30. All of the things that we’ve just mentioned actually will be on the main stage, and we will be joined – thanks to Eric for making this happen, also thanks for Leaky for letting us do this – we’ll be joined by Chris Rankin, who played Percy Weasley in the Potter series, and we’re looking forward to that. So our live show will be 11:30 to 12:30 on Sunday, and then, of course, we’re going to set up some time to do a MuggleCast meetup sometime throughout the weekend. Details still to be determined there, but we can finally announce what we’re going to be doing at LeakyCon in Boston.

Eric: Yeah, super exciting. Something Friday, Saturday, and Sunday for all of you who are joining. If you want to get tickets and you still haven’t, use our discount code “Muggle” to get $10 off. And all of those times Micah read are subject to change until the day of.

Micah: Of course.

Eric: But it’s important to know roughly what we’re doing and when we’re doing it, so super excited, and I’ll talk about my other panels later.

Andrew: If you can’t make it there but want more MuggleCast, check us out on Patreon: We just released a new bonus MuggleCast, which finds us discussing what Dudley heard and felt when the Dementors attacked. We had a good discussion there last week. We do two bonus MuggleCasts per month, plus you get access to our recording studio. We stream live as we record each episode, so you also get some early access. And if you want even earlier access, you can get access to our show notes a few days in advance of each episode, so you can see what we’re working on. You also have the chance to co-host MuggleCast like Cristina did today. Thanks for joining us, Cristina.

Cristina: Oh, it was totally worth it. I was so looking forward to this.

Andrew: Good, it sounds like you had a good time, and you threw in some great thoughts during our discussion as well, so we really appreciate that. Thank you for contributing to MuggleCast in always.

Cristina: Always.

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Andrew: All right, thank you, everybody, for listening. I’m Andrew.

Eric: I’m Eric.

Micah: I’m Micah.

Laura: I’m Laura.

Cristina: And I’m Cristina.

Andrew: Bye, everybody.

Laura: See ya.

Eric and Micah: Bye.