Transcript for MuggleCast Episode #457, The Grim Granger (OOTP 21, The Eye of the Snake)
Show Intro
[Show music plays]
Andrew Sims: Welcome to MuggleCast, your weekly ride into the wizarding world. I’m Andrew.
Micah Tannenbaum: I’m Micah.
Laura Tee: I’m Laura.
Andrew: And we’re joined by one of our Slug Club members this week, Abbey. Hi, Abbey. How you doing?
Abbey: Hi, guys. I’m doing great.
Andrew: You also host a podcast. Tell us about it.
Abbey: I do; it’s called “The On-Call Room,” and it’s a Grey’s Anatomy podcast. We’re deep-diving every episode. So we’re currently in… I think we’re just about to start Season 9. So it’s been three years, and it’s taken a long time. There’s a lot of episodes of Grey’s.
Micah: How many seasons are there?
Abbey: Oh my God. I think we’re in the 16th right now, and hopefully there’s only one more. We’re praying for it to end.
Andrew: [laughs] Hopeful? What?!
Micah: That’s not good for business, though.
Abbey: [laughs] It’s true, but it’s getting worse. It’s like if the Harry Potter books just kept getting worse instead of better, you know?
Micah: Oh, like Cursed Child?
[Abbey and Andrew laugh]
Abbey: Yeah, so it’s really fun, but we really want to have a good close to it sometime. It’ll be, like, five years by the time we’re done.
Andrew and Laura: Yeah.
Andrew: You’ve done really well with it, so congrats.
Abbey: Yeah, thank you. So everyone should check it out if they like Grey’s. It’s real fun.
Andrew: Yeah, for sure. I mean, speaking as a person who has a podcast in which we’re talking about books from 10/15/20 years ago, I think you’ll come to regret when they run out of new material.
[Abbey and Andrew laugh]
Andrew: Because we’re like, “What do we do?” There’s nothing new.
Abbey: I definitely think about you guys when you talk about how you thought you were done, and then here you are ten years later.
Andrew: Yeah, which we’re obviously thrilled by. We’re having a great time doing this podcast, and it’s great to have listeners on like you. So welcome to the show, and let’s get your fandom ID.
Abbey: All right, so my favorite book is Order of the Phoenix, so this is fitting. My favorite movie is Deathly Hallows – Part 2; I really like a good cry, and that soundtrack is so good. And then I’m a Hufflepuff, my Ilvermorny House is Thunderbird, and my Patronus is a badger.
Andrew: Okay.
Abbey: And then we’re talking father figures, right?
Andrew: Yeah, who is your favorite Harry Potter father figure in the series?
Abbey: I had to think about this one, and I’m going to go with Xenophilius Lovegood, but only if I am Luna, because I feel like he really puts everything on the line and betrays Harry. But if I were Luna, I’d want him as my dad.
Andrew: I see, yeah. Cool, cool.
Laura: Yeah, he does kind of drop the ball.
Abbey: He does. But also, before that he’s a journalist publishing things.
Laura: Yeah, wonderful.
Abbey: So I love that.
Andrew: Yeah, and the reason we asked this question is because we are discussing Order of the Phoenix Chapter 21 this week, and Arthur is obviously in great danger, but is saved thanks to Harry, so we’ll talk about that today.
News
Andrew: First, some news, and there’s actually a lot of news because, as everybody knows, there is this Coronavirus pandemic sweeping the world, and it has affected the Wizarding World. First of all, Harry Potter and the Cursed Child on Broadway and in San Francisco – and I think one or two other productions around the world – are currently closed because we all are supposed to be practicing social distancing right now, which is no problem for podcasters, at least for our show. [laughs]
Laura: Yep, born for this.
Andrew: Yeah. We’ve been training our whole life for this. Introverts unite!
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: Also, Universal, both of their theme parks in America have closed; that is where the Wizarding World lands are. This is the first time I think that the Wizarding World parks are closed. Theme parks rarely ever close, so that’s a pretty big deal. I know this is the fourth time in history that Disneyland has closed. And then there’s been some other news because of Coronavirus. It turns out we learned from a reputable gaming site, Kotaku; they revealed that Warner Bros. was planning on officially announcing that Harry Potter RPG that leaked a couple years ago, that one in which you are a latecomer to Hogwarts. And so that was supposed to be announced at E3 this year, but now E3 is canceled, so presumably WB will announce it in another way. But that’s exciting news because this trailer – or sizzle reel, or whatever you want to call it – leaked, and it just looks so amazing. And everybody got so excited about it back in the middle of 2018, and we haven’t heard a peep about it since then, and now it looks like it is real and we are going to be hearing about it in the months head, so that’s cool.
Abbey: And maybe we can all just live inside the RPG game if we’re still in self-quarantine. [laughs]
Andrew: Right. Warner Bros., just release it now. We need something to do at home.
Abbey: Right.
Andrew: I’m sure it’s ready.
Micah: Yeah, release the trailer, at least. Give us something to go on.
Andrew: Yeah, come on.
Micah: But I’m not sure if you saw this, Andrew – I think you did because I saw something on MuggleCast Twitter – but also, Wizards Unite has decided to add more Confoundables to their game, knowing that people are not going to be out and about as much. So if you live in Podunk, USA, there’s a good chance you have a few more of Confoundables showing up around your house.
Andrew: [laughs] This is your chance. You can play without leaving.
Laura: So what you’re saying is I can…
Micah: Laura, yeah, I’m talking to you.
[Everyone laughs]
Laura: I can sit on my couch. This is wonderful.
Andrew: And some studios have halted production of their major movies, but not Warner Bros.; they’re saying, “Let’s keep rolling.” And when Variety reported that Warner Bros. was going to continue shooting, they revealed that Fantastic Beasts 3 is going to begin filming this Monday. Or by the time you’re listening to the show, they’ve already started. They are supposed to start Monday, March 16. Hopefully, WizardingWorld.com will make some sort of announcement about this news. Maybe a title? Probably too early for a title, but maybe some details about what’s going to be happening in this third installment, so that’s exciting. And once filming gets underway, there tends to be leaks; we get these photos from the set when they’re doing outdoor filming, and we hear about these actors going to set through their social media channels, stuff like that, so hopefully we’ll have some stuff to talk about regarding Fantastic Beasts 3 in the weeks ahead. That said, if Coronavirus continues to spread and the numbers continue to grow rapidly, I would imagine that Warner Bros. will stop filming, but since the movie is not scheduled for release until November 2021, I feel like a delay in shooting won’t actually affect the release date, but we’ll see.
Micah: Now, is this filming that’s taking place down in Brazil, or this is filming that’s taking place at Leavesden?
Andrew: Leavesden, yeah. Apparently where they’re also currently filming The Batman, starring Twilight star Robert Pattinson.
Abbey: A reunion, of sorts.
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: He’ll hop over and reprise his role as Cedric. [laughs] Yeah, that’s definitely what’s happening. That’s all that’s happening in the Wizarding World. Coronavirus is affecting the world, and that includes what we talk about here on the show, so everybody stay safe, wash your hands, and stay inside if you can. In some better news, Bloomsbury revealed the covers for Quidditch Through the Ages, and I say covers because the US and UK are getting different covers for some reason. This is for the illustrated edition of the book.
Micah: “For some reason.” What do you think that reason is?
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: Well, I mean, if you look at these covers, the UK one is much better than the US one. I am not buying this US one.
Abbey: Yeah, I agree.
Andrew: The US one is just basic. It’s got the Snitch on it, and it’s got three players, and then… but the UK one, it’s got, like, a million things on the cover. It’s just whimsical and fun. Why do you like this one more, Abbey?
Abbey: I like the illustrations of the Quaffle and everything on the bottom there too. I don’t know, and it just… yeah, like you said, it’s just really whimsical. It looks like they put way more time into it.
Andrew: [laughs] Scholastic was like, “Okay, we have four things on it. That’s enough.” Bloomsbury was like, “We’re going to have 400 things on it!” And then we saw some scans from inside the book, and this just looks phenomenal. I mean, we see the history of Quidditch, we see this sketch of Quidditch in the 15th century, and then we see all these different types of Quidditch players from over the years, and some postcards, and yeah, just all kinds of things. This book looks really great.
Micah: I really love the ticket stub from Quidditch World Cup 1974.
Andrew: Oh, yeah.
Micah: Madagascar versus Syria. That’s really cool stuff. She often talked about how she really didn’t like to write Quidditch in the books, but this looks really, really cool. And I honestly don’t even remember reading or sitting down and going through Quidditch Through the Ages much, but with this illustrated edition, I definitely think I’m going to do that.
Andrew: I’m feeling the same way.
Abbey: I also love the illustration of Catriona McCormack with the Pride team, “The Prides,” and then how it says in the small print that “her love of ‘The Prides,’ and how to wear purple with flair.” I’m loving that.
Andrew: [laughs] Yeah, it looks really great. They’ve obviously done an incredible job with the illustrated editions. This is the last of the little spinoff books to get an illustrated edition; Fantastic Beasts and The Tales of Beedle the Bard are already out, and we’ve reviewed them in years past. So Quidditch Through the Ages illustrated edition arrives later this year. Also arriving this year is MinaLima’s Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone illustrated edition, so there’s going to be two illustrated editions for us to enjoy this year.
Micah: And we hope to have MinaLima on the show prior to that release. We’re working on it.
Laura: So which of these editions do you guys think you’re going to get?
Micah: Both.
Andrew: Definitely the UK one.
Laura: Same.
Andrew: US one can go to hell. [laughs]
Micah: Wow.
Laura: The US one, I feel like they were just like, “We need something that is super reminiscent of Harry Potter,” so they just grabbed the Snitch. They were like, “This is really recognizable. Make that big, and then that’ll do.”
Andrew: Yeah. Somebody needs to send me that UK one, or… I don’t know, I don’t want to travel over there right now.
Laura: I mean, Amazon probably?
Andrew: Can I…? Will Bezos let me do that?
Micah: Of course he will.
Andrew: Okay, great.
Laura: Yeah, he likes money.
Andrew: And Laura, you’ll take the UK one too?
Laura: Yeah.
Andrew: Okay, great. If Eric was here, I’m sure he would say the US one, because he just likes to be different.
[Everyone laughs]
Micah: Of course he does.
Andrew: [laughs] By the way, this illustrated edition is by Emily Gravett, who has not illustrated one of these Harry Potter books before. I like that they’re getting new illustrators for these books to bring some different perspectives to the series.
Micah: But how did she go about illustrating these two different covers, though? What direction was she given?
Andrew: Oh, that’s a good point.
Micah: Because if we’re all saying we really, really enjoy the cover that is done for the UK, and don’t like the US one…
Andrew: I didn’t think about that. I didn’t even realize she probably did both of these. She was probably like, “Wait, you need two covers? Why?”
[Abbey and Andrew laugh]
Andrew: “It’s the same book!”
Micah: Hopefully she got paid for both of them.
Andrew: In fairness, Fantastic Beasts has different covers in the US and UK, but the core Harry Potter books do not, the illustrated editions.
Abbey: Also, isn’t the original Quidditch Through the Ages that we all got when we were younger…? Isn’t that the same color green that this one is? Are they trying to match that?
Andrew: Ohhh, thank you.
Abbey: I just thought of that.
Andrew: That’s it. That’s right. Good catch. And yeah, the illustrated edition of Fantastic Beasts is red in the US.
Abbey: Is red, okay.
Andrew: Yep. We cracked it. Cover still sucks, but we cracked it.
Abbey: Yep.
Micah: Do we know is there any additional information that’s in Quidditch Through the Ages illustrated edition versus what was in the original?
Andrew: No, I think it’s the same. But because of all these illustrations, we’re seeing a lot more. We’re getting a lot more detail, like this magazine cover and a photo of Quidditch in 1473.
Micah: Because I’m just thinking a couple of episodes ago, we were talking about McGonagall and her backstory, the fact that her mother was this great Quidditch player; she ended up playing at Hogwarts, but then injured herself and wasn’t able to play professionally. Could be cool info to include in Quidditch Through the Ages.
Andrew: Yeah. All right, we’re about to get to Chapter by Chapter, but first, this week’s episode is sponsored by Quip.
[Ad break]
Chapter by Chapter: Seven-Word Summary
Andrew: All right, it’s time for Chapter by Chapter, and we are discussing Order of the Phoenix Chapter 21, [whispers] “The Eye of the Snake.”
[Micah laughs]
Andrew: And we’ll start with our seven-word summary. And Abbey, you will go first.
Abbey: Gosh. Okay, um… Harry…
[Seven-Word Summary music plays]
Andrew: … heads…
Micah: … toward…
Laura: What?
Abbey: Yeah, I couldn’t hear that either. [laughs]
Micah: Toward. Towards. Sorry.
Abbey: Oh, okay.
Laura: Oh, Jesus.
[Laura and Micah laugh]
Laura: … Arthur…
Abbey: … in…
Andrew: … peril…
Micah: Harry heads towards Arthur in peril… snakily?
[Everyone laughs]
Abbey: That is good.
Andrew: Good job. [laughs]
Abbey: Saved it.
Micah: I saved it, yeah.
[Abbey laughs]
Andrew: Yeah, I would have just been lazy and said “today.”
Micah: I was just thinking of throwing out random words like “Nagini.”
[Everyone laughs]
Chapter by Chapter: Main Discussion
Micah: Wanted to start out this chapter connecting some threads, because I just thought it was too much; there was too much happening at the start of this chapter to not do that. And I’ll defer to Laura on some of these, but I just thought the first part of this chapter overall was very reminiscent of Prisoner of Azkaban when Hagrid takes the students to meet Buckbeak. Number one, they’re getting very important lessons on winged creatures, Hippogriffs and Thestrals, and both end up being used in an escape plan at the end of the book. The Thestrals are used to get to the Ministry; Buckbeak is used to free Sirius. So J.K. Rowling is definitely using things from Book 3 here in Book 5, right?
Laura: Oh, yeah. I mean, even down to the setup for the lesson, if you reread… gosh, I think it was Chapter 7 of Prisoner of Azkaban, “Talons and Tea Leaves.” When they’re going for their Care of Magical Creatures lesson, they notice that it looks like Hagrid is leading them into the forest, and Harry is like, “Oh God, I hope he’s not taking us in there.”
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: And he doesn’t, but then in Order of the Phoenix, he definitely does.
Micah: And Laura, you mentioned this on a previous episode, but Hermione at the start of this chapter is spending her free time trying to help Hagrid prepare for his lessons, and this is very similar to her helping Hagrid plan Buckbeak’s defense in Prisoner of Azkaban.
Laura: Yeah. Whereas in Prisoner of Azkaban, Hagrid is happy to accept her help, and then here in Order of the Phoenix, he’s very resistant.
Andrew: “I got this, girl.” Good on Hermione for wanting to help Hagrid, but poor Hagrid gets no help from anybody else except for a student, and that student just finds Hagrid helpless.
Micah: So you think somebody else should have tried to help him out? Give him warning about Umbridge?
Andrew: Maybe, maybe. Does he have anybody who can come to his aid when he needs it? Or does he have any close friends who can help him out from time to time? It just seems like he’s hopeless.
Laura: Yeah. [coughs] Dumbledore.
[Abbey and Andrew laugh]
Abbey: It is weird, too, that the only interactions… you don’t see any of him with teachers besides Umbridge in this chapter. Even when he’s at the table for the first time, Fred, George, and Lee are the ones that go and greet him; they talk about that. So it’s just weird that there’s no other teacher interactions.
Andrew: Yeah, exactly. I mean, they should have each other’s backs. [laughs] Instead a student is helping him. Just bums me out.
Micah: True, especially the way that Hagrid is about to be treated by Umbridge later on in this chapter. You would hope that somebody is there to stick up for him, to step in and make a difference.
Andrew: I wanted to bring that up as well. Shouldn’t somebody have warned him? But we can talk about that later.
Micah: One other thing that I just want to call out at the start of the chapter is Malfoy, and he’s really a little whiny [censored] about going into the forest. And I understand he hasn’t had the best experiences there, going all the way back to Sorcerer’s Stone, but I truly hope that he’s having Buckbeak flashbacks, just given how he treats Hagrid later on in this chapter.
Andrew: He probably is. Yeah, I think so.
Abbey: I think it’d be worse if he could see the Thestrals. He can’t even see them, so his flashbacks must be real real in that moment.
Andrew: Yeah, this is like a nightmare to him, because he doesn’t know what’s lurking around the corner. But this is that one little thing about Malfoy that we feel good about, right? Because he actually does have some cracks. He’s not as tough as he tries to act like he is.
Micah: Absolutely. And I think that ties into Abbey’s point, because Hagrid also should be thinking through his lessons – and this goes to Hermione trying to prep him appropriately – because he’s about to introduce these creatures that, let’s say, 90% of the class – probably more than that – can’t even see, and I’m not sure that’s the best lesson for these students, the first lesson back for Hagrid. And it’s a very ominous sort of situation for these students, who are already on edge because Professor Grubbly-Plank is not there and Hagrid is back, and they know that he has a track record where he introduced some creatures that are dangerous.
Laura: Do we think that it mattered, though, what Hagrid was covering? I feel like he was set up for failure no matter what. The Slytherins were more than prepared to throw him under the bus; Umbridge was prepared to show up and make him look like a fool no matter what, so I’m not sure it would have really mattered.
Micah: That’s a fair point. So even if they were cute little Nifflers, you think they would have found a way to make Hagrid look bad.
Laura: I think so.
Abbey: I agree.
Andrew: Well, and then, yeah, Umbridge is just making fun of the way he talks and interprets and listens, so yeah, he was about to get bullied no matter what.
Micah: One thing he does say, though, that I just didn’t like – and I didn’t think was very teacher-like to say to a student – it’s directed at Malfoy, and he says, “If yeh’ve finished askin’ stupid questions, follow me.”
Andrew: Right. What did we always hear growing up? “There are no stupid questions.”
Laura: And then you get to university, and you find out that that’s not true.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: Right, they tell you that to try to make you feel better and encourage you to participate in class.
Abbey: I also think as a reader, too, you don’t know what Hagrid is hiding yet, and so once you do, you understand the stress that he’s under. But at this point you don’t know that, and so you’re just wondering why he’s being so out of character.
Micah: He’s very proud of it, though, the fact that he’s been able to corral these Thestrals and domesticate them, essentially. And the introduction is definitely a little bit odd for us as readers, too, because to your point, we don’t know what they are yet, and only two other students aside from Harry can see them; one is a Slytherin boy, and the other is Neville. And again, this goes to the point about should Hagrid be introducing these creatures to these fifth year students, especially those who have experienced death? Because this may be a traumatic flashback for some of these young kids once they understand why it is that they can see them.
Laura: And it does put them on the spot, too, because now it’s like, “Hey, these three people have seen somebody die,” and then could possibly prompt their peers to start asking them questions. Obviously, everybody knows why Harry can see them, but as for Neville and this Slytherin student, not so much. So I agree, it does put a burden on the students for sure.
Andrew: Yeah, and that isn’t addressed at all, but I think those students are absolutely burdened, and that would probably haunt them for weeks, at least, reliving this death.
Laura: Do you know why that is, Andrew?
Andrew: Because Hogwarts is an emotional nightmare.
[“It’s starting to sound like a security nightmare!” sound effect plays with sirens, with Andrew saying the word “emotional” over “security”]
[Everyone laughs]
Micah: It even, though, prompts Hermione a little bit later on in the chapter, after the lesson is done, to say in front of Harry that she wishes that she could see Thestrals. It’s a little bit of a tone-deaf statement to make.
Andrew: [laughs] But you know… and she apologizes; she’s like, “Oh, I didn’t mean it.” But you know deep down, she still wants to see the Thestrals. And I’m wondering who would she kill so she could see a Thestral?
[Abbey laughs]
Andrew: Because she’s definitely thinking about killing somebody. Now, who should it be?
[Laura laughs]
Abbey: I feel like Umbridge, the way she shakes with fury.
Andrew: Yeah, because she’s awful towards Hagrid.
Abbey: I also relate to Hermione, because sometimes… there’s people who process verbally and who process internally, and I feel like Hermione is someone that processes things out loud, without thinking, and this was totally one of those instances where she just means educationally she wishes she could see them and is not even thinking about it.
Laura: And who among us has not been in this position before, of having something just come tumbling out of your mouth and then realizing, once it’s out in the world, how horrible it sounded?
Abbey: [laughs] Right.
Laura: And then you’re like, “No, no, that’s not what I meant! I’m sorry!”
[Abbey laughs]
Andrew: Yep. I’m trying to look it up now; is it only if you’ve witnessed a human death, or could it be an animal death as well? Because then maybe Hermione could go and kill a chipmunk or something.
Abbey: Why does she have to be the murderer? [laughs]
Laura: Yeah, can’t she just show up at somebody’s deathbed and just be there?
Micah: All right, well, I’m super glad where this conversation has gone.
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: I just think Hermione, she always… she wants to know and see everything, so now she’s thinking about, “How do I see somebody die so I can complete my encyclopedia of a brain?”
[Laura laughs]
Micah: There are books that I’m sure show Thestrals that she could look at.
Andrew: That’s true.
Micah: People who have seen them probably have drawn them. And Newt; she could pick up a copy of Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them and see a Thestral.
Andrew: Okay, cool.
Abbey: Do you think if you photograph one, they’ll show up if you’ve seen death?
Andrew and Micah: Hmm.
Micah: That’s interesting.
Andrew: Well, since photos are magical in the wizarding world, I would think they would be dynamic in that, no, you still would not be able to see Thestrals, in my opinion.
Abbey: Okay, gotcha.
Andrew: That’s why Hermione needs to kill somebody.
Micah: We do learn a bit more about Thestrals. Hagrid lets us know that they do have an amazing sense of direction, and that’s important for later on in this book. We also learn that, in addition to carrying the students up to Hogwarts in those horse-drawn carriages, that Dumbledore occasionally takes them to a meeting that he can’t Apparate to, so I was wondering, where is Dumbledore riding a Thestral to and why have we not seen this photo before?
Andrew: Yeah. Where’s the fan art?
[Everyone laughs]
Micah: It probably does exist somewhere.
Andrew: Yeah. It’s almost like us wanting to ride Hagrid’s Magical Creatures Motorbike Adventure, now closed at Universal Orlando. Dumbledore enjoys taking a ride from time to time, something more thrilling than Apparating somewhere.
Abbey: Feels the breeze in his hair?
Andrew: [laughs] Yeah, his hair blowing in the wind.
Laura: Do you think this is what he was riding in Sorcerer’s Stone when he was on his way to the Ministry and he passed Hermione’s owl midair?
Abbey and Andrew: Maybe.
Andrew: I’m on Google image search and I don’t see a single photo…
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: … so somebody get on that; you can be the first.
Micah: It’s one of those really small notes that I didn’t even remember that this was mentioned by Hagrid when talking about Thestrals, that Dumbledore had actually used them as a means of transportation from time to time.
Andrew: Micah, I don’t understand why this is, but in my Google image search for Dumbledore riding a Thestral, I see the photo of you and Eric riding Hagrid’s Magical Creatures Motorbike Adventure.
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: I don’t get it. [laughs] And the MuggleCast album art. There’s clearly not much for Google to show for this search phrase.
Micah: Now, you had a couple points here, Andrew.
Andrew: Oh, yeah.
Micah: I know we touched a little bit on the fact that it wasn’t wise to put students who have seen death in this situation, but does this lend to Hagrid’s ability or capability in terms of teaching students?
Andrew: Exactly. He’s not thinking this through. I do wonder if Hagrid filled in Hermione about his lesson, if Hermione would have said, “Do you think that’s the best idea, making some students relive the death of probably a loved one? And think about what you’re about to put Harry through. And then also think about how Umbridge is going to react to you bringing Thestrals in front of students.” So yeah, this is just another case of Hagrid not being the brightest bulb in the box, and I just feel bad for those kids.
Laura: I mean, I will say Hermione does note later in the chapter that they would have had to learn about these creatures anyway, but that they were more NEWT level creatures, so she felt that he introduced them a bit early, but they still would have had to have this experience. It is in the curriculum, so he wasn’t necessarily out of bounds there; he just introduced them a bit early.
Andrew: And maybe he could have warned the students. Instead of springing these beasts on them, say, “Hey, I’m about to introduce you to a creature who, if you’ve seen death, you’ll be able to see the Thestrals.” Just give them a warning.
Laura: Yeah, but also bearing in mind when these books were written… the story takes place in the ’90s; trigger warnings were not a thing.
Andrew: True.
Laura: So just have to remember when we’re reading it through the 2020 lens, things were different.
Micah: Yep.
Andrew: Hogwarts probably still does not have trigger warnings.
Laura: Probably not.
Andrew: They just throw it all out there. Make the kids deal with it. Emotional security nightmare.
Micah: And not just for the students who have experienced death in their lives, but for those who haven’t, Hagrid is going into the forest, I think they said, with half a deer or something slung over his shoulder, and he’s feeding this raw meat to something these kids can’t even see. It’s like the flesh is being ripped from the bone, and that’s kind of creepy to have to watch when you can’t even see what’s going on.
Andrew: [laughs] That’s terrifying. Yeah, great for Halloween, but not a class. And yeah, I mean, I brought this up earlier, but it is a bummer that no member of faculty is prepping Hagrid for Umbridge’s arrival, because they’ve already been through it, and nobody’s warning him, “Hey, Umbridge is going to come down here and be really critical of what you’re doing, no matter what it is, and she’s going to interrupt you, and the Slytherin students are going to love what she does. Just be ready.” And nobody warns him.
Laura: Well, the trio tried to warn him, and we also don’t know what his conversations with his fellow faculty members looked like. I can see him very much dismissing them in the same way that he’s dismissed the trio, as well as Hermione on her own when they’ve been trying to tell him, “No, Hagrid, this is actually really serious,” and he’s just like, “Nah, it’ll be okay. I’ve got really interesting lesson plans coming up; you’ll see.” So I could see his peers trying to warn him about this, and him being like, “No. What problem could she have with Thestrals? They’re so interesting.”
Andrew: Yeah, yeah, I guess. We just don’t have any proof that a member of faculty actually warned him, and given how the school is run, it would not surprise me if nobody warned him.
Micah: To Laura’s point, though, you would think he would have at least had a conversation with Professor Grubbly-Plank. But let’s get to his evaluation. It goes about as bad as it possibly could. And this is something, again, rereading the book as an adult, that you pick up on some things in addition to Umbridge just being extremely crude. She treats him like he is mentally challenged.
Abbey: It’s so hard to read.
Micah: It really is. But that said, I thought we could go through some of the things that she writes down and some of the things that she says to Hagrid. She mentions that he “has to resort to crude sign language,” “appears to have poor short term memory,” “shows signs of pleasure at the idea of violence,” and – again, this is a quote from the book – she says, “I am going to walk,” she mimes walking, “‘among the students’ – she pointed around at individual members of the class – ‘and ask them questions.’ She pointed at her mouth to indicate talking.” That’s just… can’t even imagine something like that going on in a classroom in today’s society, although I’m sure there’s probably examples of it. But if the truth came out that an evaluator did that to a teacher, I’m sure that evaluator would be fired immediately.
Andrew: Oh, yeah.
Abbey: It reminds me of that horrible thing when you see someone talking louder and slower to someone who doesn’t speak English, like that would help. It’s just horrible to… yeah, it’s not great.
Micah: Yeah. And unfortunately, there are… she’s really playing to a base here in the Slytherin students – Pansy, Draco, and others – and that’s just… to me, that makes it even worse, right? She’s essentially just trying to make as much light of this situation as she possibly can, and the fact that she needs kids who are 15 and 16 years old to validate what she’s doing makes it even worse.
Andrew: Yeah, it’s awful. Grow the hell up.
Micah: And you can tell Hagrid is starting to… more so with the students, less so with Umbridge, because with Umbridge he’s just looking at her like she’s crazy and can’t understand why she’s doing what she’s doing. But when Pansy even says that Hagrid grunts and it makes it difficult to understand, Hagrid gets offended by that. He starts to get a little bit uncomfortable.
Andrew: Yeah, yeah. And Hagrid is proving he’s not as stupid as Umbridge is making him out to be, because he is responding to the things that Umbridge is saying, at least a few of them, being like, “No, these aren’t dangerous. Everything’s fine.”
Micah: Yeah, I’m assuming in his mind he’s wondering if she’s slightly off because of what she’s doing and how she’s acting towards him.
Abbey: Right.
Laura: Yep, that’s how it comes across for sure.
Andrew: Well, he’s right; she is off. But this was also making me wonder, should the trio have gone to McGonagall or someone else about this? Because we’re sitting here talking about how horrible this is; I think this is something that should have been brought up to the faculty. I mean, this is abuse in real time from one teacher to another.
Micah: But isn’t that what she’s all about, though? This is definitely… we love Hagrid, though. Think about Trelawney’s situation; we all felt bad for her, but at the end of the day, were we really as up in arms about what she did to somebody like Trelawney versus now what she’s doing to Hagrid?
Andrew: Right.
Abbey: I was going to say, I just think it really speaks to Hermione’s character, too, the way that she is so… she gets so physically upset about it; like “tears of fury,” they say, and it says, “shaking with fury again.” She tried so hard to help him and just cares so much for him. I just hate that she feels that way, but I love that moment because it really shows how much she cares.
Micah: Yeah, absolutely. When they just have that sentence or two about as she’s leaving… or as the lesson is ending, Hermione is physically shaking; Neville is kind of dumbfounded. And speaking of Neville, she completely manipulates his words to her own personal satisfaction. She says that students are too intimidated to admit that they’re frightened, and that’s not what’s happening with Neville. Neville is probably going through a bit of… was it his grandfather who he saw pass away? So he’s dealing with that, but he also probably doesn’t want to say the wrong thing here and get Hagrid in trouble.
Andrew and Laura: Yeah.
Laura: I think that’s exactly it.
Micah: All right. Well, to wrap up this beautiful evaluation that Umbridge does, she says to Hagrid, “speaking once more in that loud, slow voice, ‘I think I’ve got enough to be getting along with… You will receive’ – she mimed taking something from the air in front of her – ‘the results of your inspection’ – she pointed at the clipboard – ‘in ten days time.’ She held up ten stubby little fingers, then, her smile wider and more toad-like than ever before beneath her green hat, she bustled from their midst, leaving Malfoy and Pansy in fits of laughter, Hermione shaking with fury, and Neville looking confused and upset.”
Andrew: I know who I’m going to kill now so I can see a Thestral.
[Abbey laughs]
Micah: Yeah, so that… I mean, there’s so much that goes on in this chapter, and it starts off with this evaluation, which I think we all knew was coming. We were all kind of hopeful at the beginning of the lesson because it didn’t seem like she was present, and then we learn that she had left a note in Hagrid’s hut or at Hagrid’s door that she was going to be stopping by. Hagrid thinks nothing of it. But given how everything goes, we can safely assume that he’s definitely on her shortlist to be fired or told to take some more time for his health.
Andrew: Yeah. “Go get some more sun.”
Micah: So the chapter shifts; December arrives with lots of homework and prefect duties. And as the holidays are approaching, Harry is actually feeling resentment towards Hogwarts, and this is the first time that he can remember that he’s actually looking to getting away from the castle. And I thought that was kind of interesting, because Hogwarts has always been a place where he’s enjoyed.
Andrew: Yeah, J.K. Rowling always writes that Harry cannot wait to get back to school – get out of the Dursleys’ home, get back to see his friends – and for the first time, he needs a break. And even this stuff aside, I mean, it’s understandable because he’s in his fifth year now. Hogwarts, he still loves it to death, of course, but it’s also nice to get a little break. I’m glad that he wants to get out of the school, to be honest.
Laura: Well, and he’s not exactly had the greatest term.
Andrew: Right.
Laura: He’s been physically abused in his detentions; he’s been removed from the Quidditch team; half the student population thinks he’s insane, so it’s been a rough few months.
Micah: And even Ron doesn’t flat-out tell him at the start that he’s going to be able to go to the Burrow. He thinks… I don’t know, honestly, what he thought. Do you think maybe he would go to Grimmauld Place, or he would go back to the Dursleys’? He didn’t seem like he had much of a place to go.
Andrew: Seems like an important thing to tell Harry as soon as his mother invited Harry to the Burrow.
Abbey: [laughs] It’s such a Ron thing to do, though, to forget to say that.
Andrew: “I forgot. I’m sorry, man. Too busy thinking about girls.”
[Abbey and Micah laugh]
Micah: So they’re headed to the Burrow. Hermione is going to be going skiing. Very Muggle thing to do.
[Abbey and Andrew laugh]
Andrew: “Ooh, I hope I see somebody fall off the cliff; then I can see Thestrals.”
[Everyone laughs]
Micah: Wow.
Laura: Andrew, why are you turning Hermione into a psychopath?
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: Because nobody realizes she is.
Micah: It’s going to be the next spinoff series. Andrew is going to write it.
Andrew: [laughs] We’re going to get Harry Potter from Hermione’s perspective, and we’re going to see just how serious she was about wanting to kill somebody so she could see Thestrals. I’m sorry I’m bringing this up so much, but I genuinely believe it.
Micah: Pitch it to Netflix.
Andrew: Got it.
Micah: So before they all head home for the holidays, there’s one final meeting of Dumbledore’s Army, and what I liked about this is that it really did contrast the teaching styles of Harry and Hagrid, unfortunately.
[Andrew laughs]
Abbey: It did.
Andrew: Someone’s good at it.
Micah: Yeah, someone is good at what they’re doing; someone is just a little over-eager. And I think Hagrid is a good teacher in his own way, but Harry definitely approaches things right, because you look at the fact that they’re not even jumping to the more advanced spells and things like that until after the holidays. They’re still working on the basics. But a couple things I just wanted to note about the meeting itself: Decorator Dobby.
Andrew: Yeah, that was cute.
Abbey: It’s the best.
Micah: He’s my MVP of the Week. That was such a cool moment. And it must have been for Harry a really just feel-good moment, given everything that’s been going on – despite the fact that he goes and takes them down – to see all those Christmas baubles with his face on it.
Andrew: I wish he kept those up and all the other kids could have seen what Dobby did. [laughs] I mean, the kids would have thought Harry was an egotistical maniac, but it was the elf. It wasn’t him genuinely.
Abbey: “Have a Very Harry Christmas” just got me. They should make those ornaments and sell them at the Wizarding World.
Andrew: They should! Yeah, that’s perfect.
Laura: They really should. [laughs]
Andrew: Or Harry should have asked Dobby to change them all to Dumbledore’s face and just kept “Have a Very Harry Christmas.” I mean, Dumbledore’s Army, so it makes sense to have Dumbledore’s face everywhere. [laughs]
Micah: We also learn that Ginny has replaced Harry on the Quidditch team. The start of her Quidditch career.
Andrew: Yeah, a big deal. And I want to talk more about that, but in a minute, because it relates to the kiss.
Micah: Dumbledore’s Army is getting stronger; that’s evidenced just by the lesson that we see in this chapter, and Harry even talks about doing the Patronus Charm after the holidays, so clearly, things are working well. And then this leads to the moment at the very end, when everybody else has exited the Room of Requirement: Harry and Cho under the mistletoe.
[Andrew sings “Let’s Get it On” by Marvin Gaye]
[Abbey and Laura laugh]
Andrew: Yeah, big moment. I mean, this is Harry’s first kiss. This is a massive deal. And I don’t even think J.K. Rowling notes, like, “It is the first kiss,” but it is, right?
Micah: Yep.
Andrew: And that’s a big moment in a kid’s life. I think most of us remember where we were when we had our first kiss because there’s so much anticipation, and then it happens and you’re like, [slurring speech] “Whoa, that was amazing.” [laughs]
Abbey: Although I feel like first kisses are in general so awkward, and I was really glad that his was written in this way too. I would have been so disappointed if he’d had some perfect romantic moment. It’s so realistic how horrible it was.
Andrew and Laura: Yeah.
Laura: I was cringing rereading this.
Abbey: Same. [laughs]
Laura: I was like, “Oh, this is so bad.” And then later on in the chapter when Hermione is like, “Well, you were nice to her, right?” And Harry, he’s like, “Uhh, I kind of patted her on the back.” So I just imagine Harry standing there stiff, not moving, arms down flat at his sides, and Cho is hanging all over him.
[Abbey and Laura laugh]
Abbey: It is the best… I feel like any time that there’s teenage moments where they really feel like regular kids, I love it so much. And the movie did such a good job of this scene, and also the book. It’s just one of my favorite passages to read.
Micah: It is definitely interesting that it’s almost like a cut scene, and you get the details when Harry is talking with Ron and Hermione as opposed to reading them yourself, right?
Abbey: Yes.
Andrew: Yeah, I thought that was clever.
Micah: And yes, it was done very well in the movie; when Dan Radcliffe walks in, he’s just got that completely befuddled look upon his face and not sure what just happened.
Abbey: And in the book it says he wanted to take the secret with him to the grave, and I thought that was so funny. He didn’t know if he wanted to tell anyone or just keep it alone forever.
Andrew: Yeah. Ron is such a bro when he squeezes it out of Harry.
[Everyone laughs]
Micah: I had wrote down he’s every teenager’s best friend’s reaction in this moment.
Andrew: And really remarkable how J.K. Rowling can capture that. [laughs]
Micah: But Hermione does bring it back to reality.
Andrew: In what way?
Abbey: In such a female way.
Andrew: In what way? Being like…?
Micah: Well, she gets more down into the details and really making Harry overly conscious about what just happened, as opposed to just celebrating the moment.
Andrew: Uh-huh, yeah.
Abbey: I think it’s perfect, though, because Ron is just like, “Fist bump! Yeah, a kiss!” And then Hermione is like, “Well, this is what’s going on in her brain, and she’s feeling all these things.” And I just felt like that’s exactly how girls would talk about it when… and I’m generalizing here, but I would with my girlfriends, I would guess. And I just love the contrast between Ron and Hermione.
Andrew: Yeah. We have a clip from when Harry walked in and told Ron and Hermione what happened.
[“I Kissed a Girl” by Katy Perry plays]
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: This is in the movie. [to the tune of the song] “At the end of the army meeting.”
Abbey: [laughs] Oh my God.
Andrew: This whole area of the chapter was interesting because we’re actually seeing future relationships in the middle of these current relationships. So as Harry has his first kiss and Hermione writes a letter to Krum, [laughs] Ginny is taking Harry’s place on the Quidditch team and Hermione says that she has had the misfortune of meeting Ron. It’s like these little hints that these two couples could never be together – somebody replacing Harry on the Quidditch team, and Hermione basically saying that Ron is an awful person and she regrets meeting him…
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: Both of these couples will be together in the future.
Micah: Yeah, doesn’t Ron say something, too, about Hermione that alludes to his interest in her as him and Harry are walking up to the dorm?
Laura: Yeah, he’s asking Harry what Hermione sees in Krum, and Harry was like, “Well, he’s older and he’s an international Quidditch star,” and Ron was like, “Well, yeah, but apart from all that.”
[Abbey and Andrew laugh]
Micah: Yeah, those small details.
Andrew: “But I’ve got the Burrow.”
Micah: Back at the Burrow. But also important that Hermione is writing to Krum for future books, because I believe… doesn’t he show up at the Battle of Hogwarts?
Laura: He’s definitely at Bill and Fleur’s wedding in Deathly Hallows.
Micah: And then just one final thing I found funny as Harry is getting ready for bed before he jumps inside of Nagini’s brain: He says that it would be much more beneficial for How Girls’ Brains Work 101 to be taught at Hogwarts as opposed to Divination. I just found that funny.
Andrew: [laughs] Yeah.
Laura: You mean emotional intelligence? Yes. [laughs]
Micah: Exactly. That’s what I meant to say. What did I say?
[Andrew and Micah laugh]
Laura: No, I was talking about… I was talking to Harry, not you.
Andrew: Yeah. I mean, we’ve spoken about this from time to time; there should have been therapy at Hogwarts. Where are the guidance counselors, even, at Hogwarts? [laughs]
Micah: I was just going to say, do we think they exist?
Andrew: Not that Harry should go to a guidance counselor and be like, “What is Cho thinking about me?” [laughs] But yeah, they don’t really get any assistance in just living life.
Abbey: Yeah, he had the worst year of his life and then just never talked about it, and now he’s back at school. It’s wild how not in touch with his emotions he is.
Andrew: Yeah, and it is quite an interesting situation because Cho is still crying over Cedric. Harry wants this to be a joyous moment, but he sees that Cho can’t get past Cedric. It’s tough. If I was in Harry’s position, I wouldn’t know what to do. I would definitely need to seek some outside help, and I would want to talk to Ron and Hermione about it more, because this is a very delicate situation. You don’t want to upset Cho more, but you do want to continue flirting with her and potentially getting into a relationship.
Abbey: He also says that he wishes Sirius would have been there to give him advice, and I just think Sirius would not be the person to give best advice on this. Ask Molly Weasley. Ask Hermione.
Laura: I think Sirius’s reaction would have been a lot like Ron’s.
Micah: Ron’s, yeah.
Abbey: Agreed.
Andrew: “Yo, man, gimme five! Nice!” But it also speaks to the close relationship between Harry and Sirius, because I, for one, would not go to a parent after having my first kiss. You just keep that amongst friends, not your elders. But that’s the type of relationship Harry and Sirius have, so good for them, and it just makes Sirius’s death all that much harder at the end of the book. So Harry’s dream!
Micah: So as if enough hasn’t happened in this chapter already, Harry finally is able to go to bed, and he starts having these really weird dreams. Little snippets of different things are happening, and one of them is that Hermione says to Harry that he should give Cho his Firebolt.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: And I was like, “Wait, what?” Given everything that just happened, J.K. Rowling writes this into Harry’s dream? What does that mean? Where are we going, Jo? Getting a little dirty on us?
Andrew: Well, she’s made some adult references before, and this might be another one of those.
[Abbey laughs]
Micah: I think it is.
Andrew: A 7-year-old is going to have to ask J.K. Rowling what that means, like the kid did about the goat.
[Laura laughs]
Micah: Right. So right after this quote about giving Cho his Firebolt, he jumps inside of a snake…
Andrew: Another phallic figure!
[Abbey and Laura laugh]
Laura: How much of this do we think was very subconsciously Freudian for J.K. Rowling as the writer?
Andrew: Well, I guess it does… so if you’re dreaming, things can morph into each other, so I could see a Firebolt morphing into a snake.
Laura: Oh, sure.
Micah: There is some initial hesitation on Nagini’s part, and what’s interesting about it is we can actually hear what she’s thinking, or at least get a sense of the fact that she’s on a mission. And I was wondering, though, given the fact that she’s not planning to attack Arthur initially, do we think that has anything to do with her humanity, just knowing what we do about her now versus what we knew about her when we were reading Order of the Phoenix?
Andrew: That is a really interesting observation. And this is why I love things like the Fantastic Beasts series, because it’s opening this world up and giving us these new perspectives. I think in this case, yes, maybe a little bit. On the other hand, she did know that she was after the prophecy, so I think that was the main hesitation. Because I think J.K. Rowling writes that Nagini knew she had other business to attend to. But still, yeah, I think you have to read scenes like this differently now that we know more about Nagini, thanks to Fantastic Beasts.
Micah: Yeah, definitely read between the lines a little bit.
Andrew: Of course, there was this line in the scene where Nagini says she’s still thinking about Credence, and now we know who the hell that is too.
[Abbey and Laura laugh]
Andrew: So it really opens it up.
Micah: I must have missed that. That was in there?
Andrew: Yeah, it’s there.
Laura: Yeah, remember, we had a whole episode being like, “Who the hell is Credence?”
Andrew: Yeah, back in, like, 2005. We’re still wondering.
[Everyone laughs]
Micah: And is this the first time, though, that we’ve seen these Horcruxes connect with each other? Because it seems like Harry is able to get into the mind of Nagini, and I’m wondering, if that’s the case, would he have been able to control the outcome? Or is it more just like you’re watching television through Nagini’s eyes? You can see what’s happening, but you can’t do anything about it.
Andrew: I am of the impression that he has no control over Nagini; he’s just got a little view.
Micah: We obviously know what happens next. Arthur, clearly doing a great job on guard duty, is asleep.
[Abbey and Andrew laugh]
Micah: The guy probably worked a full shift at the Ministry earlier in the day, and we know the Order is stretched. But he’s standing guard and wakes up…
Andrew: Sleeping guard.
Micah: … and Nagini has no choice but to attack. And what I found so really disgusting about the description is just Harry can actually feel what is happening.
Abbey and Andrew: Yeah.
Micah: There’s such a strong connection between these Horcruxes that he literally can feel the bones crushing underneath and the blood and all that stuff. It’s pretty nasty.
Laura: Yeah, and we’ll see in the next chapter how conflicted this makes Harry feel, because he kind of feels like, “I understood Nagini’s feelings at that point, so I understood what it felt like to want to hurt Arthur.”
Micah: Yeah, that’s why I was wondering, could he have done anything about it? Because he’s able to feel all of this… it’s just a very odd connection.
Abbey: I feel like he hasn’t done his due diligence in learning…
Andrew: Exactly.
Abbey: Or is this before his lessons with Snape start?
Andrew: Before.
Laura: This is before.
Abbey: Okay, so I was going to say maybe afterwards, or he’d be able to at least leave the scene. But I feel like it’s only Voldemort that is able to get in Harry’s mind and control things.
Andrew: I agree with that. If it’s possible, Harry does not know how to do it yet, because this is so new to him. And of course, he’s living this incredibly terrifying experience. How would you know how to take control of the situation? He didn’t know this was coming; he was just in bed trying to get some rest after his first kiss. Poor guy. What a day.
Micah: Yeah, what a what a day.
Andrew: Big highs, big lows.
Micah: But luckily, Neville does the right thing and goes and gets McGonagall, who happens to be a member of the Order; she probably knows that Arthur is on guard duty. And they make the decision that it’s time, finally, for Harry to come face to face with Dumbledore.
Andrew: And another key moment here is McGonagall saying, “I believe you,” because Harry has not been believed by so many people. He’s had to put up these fights trying to prove himself, and for him to have this terrifying experience, and then he doesn’t have to plead with McGonagall; she just says, “I believe you. Let’s go.”
Abbey: I don’t know if you guys felt this, but even as a reader you feel relief that it’s McGonagall that comes in, and not any other teacher.
Andrew: Yes.
Abbey: And so I love how you feel that, and I’m sure he felt the same way.
Andrew: Yeah. And you know how certain feelings stick with you reading this book for the first time? That was one of them for me, just knowing that McGonagall believed him.
Abbey: Same.
Andrew: And that he was finally going to see Dumbledore again. On a reread, you kind of forget because you know that Dumbledore and Harry end up working together again in later books; you forget just how terrible this was reading this book for the first time because you’re so used to Dumbledore being more present, and then Harry losing that connection, it’s heart-wrenching.
Abbey: It’s also heart… well, I didn’t remember, too, until I reread that the pain in his scar was so bad it says that he vomited? That is a lot more extreme than I remember as well, and obviously more extreme than the movies show.
Micah: Yeah, and it is one of those… it’s really the first time, right? That we see this connection being made between Horcruxes, at least to this extent. I don’t think we’ve ever seen this with what happened in Chamber of Secrets, right? I don’t know if there’s any comparison here, but just the fact that Harry is able to get inside of the mind of Nagini and feel what it’s like to attack Arthur. And unfortunately, this is a major tipoff for Voldemort, and he’s able to manipulate Harry moving forward.
Andrew and Laura: Yeah.
Abbey: I also just wanted to point out that it’s so sad to me how one second, Harry is a regular teenager who has his first kiss, and you have this moment of, “Oh, he’s going to be good, and he’s just a regular kid,” and then truly the next hour happens, and he’s Harry, and he has these huge problems.
Andrew: Yeah, it sucks. He’s been through a lot.
Laura: He’s just like, “Damn it, world.”
Andrew: “Give me one night. One night off.”
[Abbey and Laura laugh]
Andrew: “Especially after my first kiss.” Yeah, after my first kiss, nothing like this happened.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: It was in a Maryland parking garage, so definitely not the best location.
[Abbey laughs]
Micah: But you did throw up, right?
Andrew: I did throw up, yeah.
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: It was a gross parking garage. [laughs]
Laura: What is it about a parking garage that brought the moment on, Andrew? [laughs]
Andrew: Well, there was some mistletoe in there.
Micah: We can’t judge.
Andrew: Yeah, don’t judge me! I’ll kiss where I want!
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: So we’re about to update our Umbridge Suck count, but first, our second sponsor today is OpenFit.
[Ad break]
Andrew: Okay, time for the Umbridge Suck count to be updated. First of all, making fun of a half-giant. Should she get only one point for that, or should we give her more?
Laura: I think she deserves two points for that.
[Andrew gasps]
Micah: Yeah.
[“Hem-hem!” Umbridge Suck count sound effect plays twice]
Andrew: She also incorrectly identified Neville’s feelings about Thestrals, which I thought was presumptuous and inappropriate, so there’s one more.
Laura: Yep.
[“Hem-hem!” Umbridge Suck count sound effect plays]
Laura: I also thought that she’s just continuing to do her classroom inspections wrong. I have a background in education, and the number one rule of classroom inspections is you’re not supposed to “be there.”
Andrew: Ahh.
Laura: You’re supposed to sort of be invisible in the background; you’re not supposed to distract the students. You’re supposed to let the class play out as normal. She’s messing this up.
[“Hem-hem!” Umbridge Suck count sound effect plays]
Andrew: Great point. That is a great point. And over on Patreon this week, we are going to have a bonus MuggleCast, by the way, about Arthur Weasley. Y’all might remember that J.K. Rowling actually planned to kill Arthur in this scene, and then she changed her mind, so we will talk about her comments on that.
Connecting the Threads
Andrew: It’s time now for connecting the threads.
Laura: Yeah, so there are a lot of great throwbacks to Prisoner of Azkaban, as Micah talked about earlier on in this discussion. So one of the first things that we can look at is the presence of Thestrals, and actually in Prisoner of Azkaban Chapter 5, Harry calls this pretty well. He notices the horseless coaches, and Harry says each stagecoach was “pulled, Harry could only assume, by an invisible horse.” How right he was.
Andrew: Dang.
Laura: Then also, we see a lot of similarities in terms of Hagrid being discriminated against because of being a half-giant. This is very well-illustrated by Malfoy during their first Care of Magical Creatures class in Prisoner of Azkaban, saying, “God, this place is going to the dogs… That oaf teaching classes, my father’ll have a fit when I tell him.” And this is just a trend that follows Hagrid throughout the entire series, unfortunately. However, this is a really interesting thread between Prisoner of Azkaban and Order of the Phoenix because we see Hagrid receiving discrimination from the Board of Governors as well as from students, and in Order of the Phoenix, it has turned into full-on employer-based discrimination, with Umbridge being the Hogwarts High Inquisitor and making these decisions. And then another really cool thing is that around this point in Prisoner of Azkaban, prior to the holidays, Lupin offers to give Harry private lessons to learn how to create his Patronus, and reading over the tone of those lessons, I think Harry took a lot of pointers on teaching from Lupin.
Andrew and Micah: Yeah.
Andrew: Think you’re right.
Laura: Lupin is very nuanced. There’s even a point where they’re talking about Sirius Black, and Lupin is explaining what the Dementor’s Kiss is and that it is the fate that awaits Sirius, and Harry just blurts out, “Well, he deserves it.” And Lupin has this great teaching moment with Harry where he’s like, “Really? Does anybody deserve that?” And I think that this really helps Harry be a much more level-headed, nuanced teacher in Order of the Phoenix.
MVP of the Week
Andrew: All right, it’s time for MVP of the Week.
[MVP of the Week music plays]
Andrew: I’m going to give mine to Cho for being gutsier than Harry. That was her who initiated the kiss, right?
Abbey and Laura: Yes.
Abbey: For sure.
Andrew: Good on you, Cho.
Micah: Oh, yeah.
Andrew: That takes something that many people don’t have.
Micah: She wanted that Firebolt.
[Everyone laughs]
Micah: I alluded to this earlier, but I gave my MVP of the Week to Dobby for just lightening the mood a bit. The fact that Harry was able to come into the Room of Requirement and see those holiday baubles with his face on it, I just thought, probably made him feel pretty good.
Laura: I gave mine to McGonagall for believing Harry.
Abbey: That’s a good one.
[Andrew laughs]
Abbey: I gave mine to Hermione for helping Hagrid and trying to teach the men about women’s brains.
Andrew: Okay. [laughs]
Rename the Chapter
Andrew: And now let’s rename the chapter. Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix Chapter 21, “The Lips of the Girl.” The Eye of the Snake, the Lips of the Girl.
Micah: All right, I’ll let that one go.
[Andrew and Laura laughs]
Micah: I went with Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix Chapter 21, “Hagrid’s Magical Creatures Motor…” Oh, sorry. “Hagrid’s Magical Creatures Thestral Bomb of a Lesson.”
Andrew: Ohhh!
Laura: [laughs] Feel very strongly about that lesson. I went with Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix Chapter 21, “Kiss the Girl.”
Andrew: Love it.
Andrew: Like Little Mermaid?
Laura: Yeah, like, [singing] “Sha-la-la-la-la-la, don’t be scared.”
Abbey: I went… I have two, but I’m going to go with Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix Chapter 21, “Wet Kisses and Bad Dreams.”
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: “How was the kiss?” “Wet.”
Laura: Oh, I love this.
Andrew: “You’re that bad of a kisser, huh?” That was a great line from Ron.
Abbey: And then he’s like, “I don’t know, am I?” He’d never thought about that.
Andrew: Yeah, that’s something you think about.
Abbey: Right.
Andrew: That’s what I was thinking about in that Maryland parking garage.
Micah: After you vomited, right?
Andrew: After I vomited, yeah.
[Abbey laughs]
Andrew: If you have any feedback about today’s discussion, send it on in; MuggleCast@gmail.com, or use the contact form on MuggleCast.com. We also love hearing your voices, so record a voice memo using the app already installed on your phone and send that to MuggleCast@gmail.com. We’d love feedback about this discussion, or if you have any questions or comments about Chapter 22.
Quizzitch
Andrew: It’s time for Quizzitch. What was last week’s question, Micah?
[Quizzitch music plays]
Micah: Last week’s question was: Whose death allows Neville to see Thestrals? And the answer is his granddad. Winners included Ann, Andrea, Kate, Meg, Tara, CountRavioli, Stacey, and Caleb.
Laura: So glad to see CountRavioli.
Micah: CountRavioli is back.
Andrew: Stay safe, CountRavioli.
Micah: This week’s question… glad I have three to choose from. I’m going to go with the first one. What is the name on the department store front which hides St. Mungo’s to Muggles? It’s a good question. I like that.
Andrew: I didn’t realize Eric put these in. I thought it was you. [laughs]
Micah: No, it wasn’t me. So if you want to participate, head on over to Twitter; reply at @MuggleCast with hashtag “Quizzitch.”
Andrew: We would love if you also joined our community at Patreon.com/MuggleCast. By doing so, you are supporting this podcast; we are only weekly right now because of you. And if you pledge at the $5 level or higher, you will be eligible for our physical gift coming in just a few months. Our oldest patrons will be receiving the gift first; we’re going to do an early wave for those who have been with us since the beginning, and then they will be going out to everybody. Everybody’s going to be getting it by the summer at the latest, I think, so we’re really excited to roll that out. And you will also be eligible for other excellent benefits, like bonus MuggleCast, and like I said earlier, we will be talking more about J.K. Rowling deciding to not kill Arthur Weasley. We have this interview with J.K. Rowling from 2007 in which she discussed this. The headline from Today.com, back in 2007: “Rowling: I wanted to kill parents.” [laughs]
Laura: Oh my God, maybe this is where Hermione gets it from.
Andrew: Oh! Yeah, see? You thought I was crazy.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: So that’ll be on our Patreon this week, Patreon.com/MuggleCast. Become a member today. Thank you. And thank you, Abbey, for being a patron. It was great having you on today.
Abbey: I loved it. And I know I said this before we started recording, but I’m just really thankful for MuggleCast because I’ve been listening since I was… I don’t know, it was QuickTime files, I feel like.
[Andrew laughs]
Abbey: And I’m just… it really inspired me to start a podcast with my best friend, and inspired us to do a Patreon, and it’s just been a really fun journey. So you guys have always set the standard really high. And I didn’t say it before, but you can listen to “The On-Call Room” on iTunes and Spotify. I realized… I texted my friend; I was like, “I forgot everything I was going to say!”
[Andrew laughs]
Abbey: But I’m just really thankful for you guys, so thanks for having me.
Andrew: Yeah, no, you were excellent, as I knew you would be.
Laura: Yeah, you’re great.
Andrew: Yeah, because you’ve got this podcast of your own, and we’ll put a link to the show in the show notes.
Abbey: That’d be great.
Andrew: I’m sure we have people out there who watch Grey’s Anatomy, and I’m really happy for you that you’ve launched a podcast and have done so well with that. It’s so great.
Abbey: Thank you so much!
Andrew: Yeah, thank you again. That’s “The On-Call Room,” available wherever podcasts are available. All right, thank you, everybody, for listening. I’m Andrew.
Micah: I’m Micah.
Laura: I’m Laura.
Abbey: And I’m Abbey.
Andrew: Bye, everybody.
Laura: See ya.
Micah: Bye. Wash your hands.
[Everyone laughs]
Laura: Wash your damn hands.
Andrew: I’m washing my hands, I’m not touching my face, and I am staying self-quarantined. Goodbye.