Transcript for MuggleCast Episode #462, Kreacher and the Keys (OOTP 25, The Beetle at Bay)
Show Intro
[Show music plays]
Andrew Sims: Welcome to MuggleCast, your weekly ride into J.K. Rowling’s Wizarding World. I’m Andrew.
Eric Scull: I’m Eric.
Micah Tannenbaum: I’m Micah.
Laura Tee: And I’m Laura.
Andrew: And we’re going to start the show with more good news this week. Last week, we celebrated the fact that Rupert Grint is having a child with his longtime girlfriend, and now here’s another cute story: We’re learning that J.K. Rowling secretly bought her childhood home back in 2011, and somehow this just only came out. This was in a report from the BBC, and she bought her childhood home that she lived in from between the ages of 9 and 18, and it’s kind of funny. [laughs] First of all, this story says that the cottage was said to have elements of the Harry Potter story within its walls, including a cupboard under the stairs. But Rowling also graffitied the home, just like she did that hotel room where she finished Deathly Hallows.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Andrew: She left her mark on Church Cottage, with “Joanne Rowling slept here circa 1982” scrawled on one wall.
Eric: I’m telling you guys, we’re going to start finding… these things are going to surface, places where Jo went and just wrote on walls and busts and other stuff. More people are going to come forward, and her criminal deeds are going to be brought to light.
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: You know what? J.K. Rowling, feel free to come write on my walls. Increase my home value. Thank you.
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: What would that add to somebody’s home? $30,000?
Eric: Yeah, maybe. Pretty cool story. I think that J.K. Rowling is living all of our dreams. I mean, at least me; I would want to buy my childhood home for the nostalgia factor alone.
Micah: It actually is a very nice home, very quaint and comfortable, it looks like. What’s the deal in the front, though, with the cars? How can you be parked in both directions? I don’t understand.
Andrew: That’s an England thing, I assume.
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: I don’t know. [laughs]
Micah: No, it’s the detail that I pick up on. I see a goat by the bush in the back.
Andrew: [laughs] Micah wouldn’t buy this home because you park in either direction right out front of the home.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: It’s not good for his OCD. Speaking of J.K. Rowling, she continues to tweet up a storm during quarantine. So somebody tweeted J.K. Rowling, “Which of the Harry Potter books was the easiest to write?” And she said, “Prisoner of Azkaban. I was in a more financially secure place, Pottermania wasn’t yet overwhelming, and my daughter had started school. For the first time, I had hours a day to write, and that book just wrote itself.”
Eric: Wow.
Andrew: So that was interesting to hear, yeah.
Eric: You can kind of tell, I think, looking back now that she has said this. When you get to Chapter 17 or 18, when they start going down to the Shrieking Shack and all those chapters take place right after each other on the heels of the one before it, there was just so much plot, such a richness that unfurls, and you could tell that J.K. Rowling had those ideas in her and just… I love hearing that she had such an easy time of getting them out, because Prisoner of Azkaban remains my favorite book of the series.
Andrew and Micah: Yeah.
Andrew: Now I want to reread it, knowing that it was the easiest book for her to write.
Micah: Does that also mean it was the most fun?
Andrew: Probably.
Micah: Because I just think of – to your point, Eric – the whole Marauders backstory, and it just… Prisoner of Azkaban, despite everything with Sirius and the Dementors, there’s still this bit of levity to it, and it’s just so much fun to read, and that’s why I would pick it still as my favorite book. It’s unfortunate to hear, though, that it seems like in other cases – and we know she’s talked about it with, I think in particular, Goblet of Fire – the pressure that she was under to write, and I really do wonder if that impacted some of the storylines. And I mean, she should take a page out of George R.R. Martin’s book. I mean, that dude has been writing The Winds of Winter for almost ten years at this point.
[Eric laughs]
Micah: She shouldn’t have given in to pressure.
Andrew: [laughs] So we should have given her ten years to write one of these Harry Potter books?
Micah: No, but I think if she had a little bit more flexibility in terms of writing Goblet of Fire, Order of the Phoenix… because she’s been critical, at least from what I remember in interviews, of some of those middle books, and not really getting the time that she wanted to sit down and write them.
Andrew: Yes. And I believe… I was trying to make this a Quizzitch Live question last week, but I couldn’t find the exact quote. I remember J.K. Rowling saying the same thing, that Goblet of Fire, she was working under a deadline, and that was the last book for which she worked under a deadline, and that’s why there was three years in between Goblet of Fire and Order of the Phoenix. Speaking of Order of the Phoenix, she said on Twitter, “Seeing a lot of love for Order of the Phoenix from other readers, which means a huge amount to me. I’m fond of many bits (Luna, Dumbledore’s Army, and Umbridge), but it was a hard book to write for a number of reasons that haven’t ever made it into the public domain, and aren’t about to. It’s hard to communicate the relationship you have with your books post-publication, once they become everybody’s. There are invisible stories interwoven with the printed ones that nobody else can see. It took me years to realize where a certain idea in Potter had come from, because I had taken such a circuitous personal journey up from my subconscious. This is the strange underbelly of published work which only the writer knows. Phoenix is very much that kind of book, so there’s something reassuring about it being loved nonetheless.” So this is interesting because J.K. Rowling is saying Order of the Phoenix was difficult to write for certain reasons that she’s not going to reveal, and she didn’t discover, I think, what she was feeling while writing this book until years later. That’s my interpretation of this tweet.
Eric: Yeah, it’s totally amazing. I am kind of blown away by thinking that the genesis of these subplots is coming from some other place out of the blue; even J.K. Rowling is sort of surprised by what’s in there. But yet she still turns out a completely coherent – if long – plot and book.
Andrew: Right.
Laura: Also, I just want to give her a shout-out for this nice little connecting the threads that she did on Twitter.
Andrew: What do you mean?
Laura: Prisoner of Azkaban? Order of the Phoenix?
Andrew: Oh. [laughs] I thought you were going to be like, “Hermione struggles to write in Order of the Phoenix, just like J.K. Rowling did!”
Laura: No.
[Eric and Micah laugh]
Micah: Yeah, thanks.
Laura: I don’t think Hermione ever struggles to write.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Micah: Laura, clearly she’s listening if she made these connecting the threads tweets.
Laura: Badass.
Andrew: [laughs] Badass. Yeah, so I mean, my guess would be she was going through some mental health struggles maybe, because if this was a hard book to write and she’s not going to open up about it, I think that very well could be one thing that went on. I mean, if it was hard to write because her typewriter wasn’t working, I don’t think she’d have any problem revealing that. But whatever it was was very personal. Maybe it was family issues at the time. Who knows? But that was just a nice little thread to see from J.K. Rowling on Twitter, something we probably never would have heard otherwise if she just wasn’t browsing Twitter and seeing lots of love for Order of the Phoenix.
Eric: I’m glad that she not only came back to Twitter, but is seemingly going back to talking about Potter on it.
Andrew: A little bit.
Eric: A little bit.
Andrew: I don’t think she’s ever going to tell us if Lavender Brown is dead or alive…
Eric: Ugh, unlikely.
Andrew: … but she’ll share these anecdotes from time to time. So before we get to Chapter by Chapter and discuss Order of the Phoenix, we have a brand new sponsor this week.
[Ad break]
Listener Feedback
Andrew: All right, it’s time now for Muggle Mail.
Laura: This comes from Audrey. Audrey says,
“I love this podcast (I’m 11). Anyway, I was thinking about possession with the moment between Nagini and Harry a couple of chapters ago and I was wondering about Ginny. Do you think that she could still have some connection with Voldemort after she was possessed by his memory? Or would she not have a connection because it was just his memory and it was destroyed? Anyway, tell me what you think!”
It’s a good question, Audrey. I think probably because the diary was destroyed, that would have severed the connection. What do you guys think?
Andrew: I would completely agree with that, yeah, because we see what happens when the rest of the Horcruxes are destroyed, and of course, Harry defeats Voldemort and breaks off that connection.
Eric: The trauma remains, unfortunately, for Ginny and for Harry, and so I like to think that maybe some abilities do as well. I would have loved if Ginny retained Parselmouth ability, because Riddle, through her, opened the Chamber of Secrets a couple times. Maybe that would have been even a more satisfying way for them to get down into the Chamber in Book 7 than Ron just fiddling about with trying to speak snake. They could have got Ginny to go down there with them.
Andrew and Micah: Yeah.
Andrew: If anything stuck with Ginny, it was probably just the trauma.
Micah: Well, and the trauma, really, of not being able to remember much of anything. Even in the last couple of chapters when we were talking about her experiences and she makes a point of telling Harry, “Look, I’m the only other person that you know that’s been possessed by Voldemort, and it’s a lot of just not remembering what happened.” So there has to be, definitely, some trauma associated, really, with not being able to remember a lot of her second year at… or I guess it would have been her first year at Hogwarts, sorry.
Eric: Right.
Laura: Yeah. Also, a lot of trauma with the knowledge that this was foisted upon her by an adult. Lucius Malfoy purposely gave her the diary.
Andrew: Yeah, awful!
Laura: And to think that he, a 30-some-odd-year-old man, did this to an 11-year-old girl…
Micah: True.
Eric: Pretty messed up.
Andrew: Cool, Lucius. Cool.
Micah: This was our point, not apples to apples comparison, but with Snape penetrating Harry’s mind.
Andrew: Right.
Micah: There’s definitely some mental security nightmare going on at Hogwarts. Add it to the list at this point.
Andrew: Add it to the list.
Laura: Yeah. Audrey, I think that if the diary hadn’t been destroyed, it would be possible for there still to be some kind of connection, but since it was, I think we’re pretty definitive here that it’s severed. Only the trauma remains.
Andrew: All right, and we have this voice memo from Megan.
[Voicemail plays]
“Hey, MuggleCast, it’s Megan calling from Greece. I was calling because I was listening to your livestream of Episode 461, and I was thinking during your discussion of the Knight Bus and how you guys were talking about how it’s for a stranded or lost witch or wizard, could Harry have, in theory, hailed the Knight Bus when he was transported by Portkey to the graveyard? I mean, it had to be somewhere in the UK, and like Laura mentioned, Mrs. Marsh, I think, lives in Wales. So could he have called the Knight Bus for help? I mean, he was stranded or lost in the graveyard. Thanks for everything you guys do. I love the show.”
[Voicemail ends]
Andrew: Harry! Harry, you could have saved Cedric!
[Laura laughs]
Micah: Yeah, if he would only put his foot out.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: It’s your wand arm.
[Laura laughs]
Micah: Oh, sorry, it’s your wand arm.
Eric: But picture this: He’s dodging spells. The Death Eaters are kind of converging on him. All of a sudden, a hand shoots out, the bus pulls in, and he just jumps on with Cedric and… “Take her away, Ern.”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: “Okay.” Vroom-vroom.
Andrew: “Take her away from death, Ern!”
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Eric: They just escape. That would have been awesome.
Laura: Yep. Deuces.
Micah: Does your wand have to be out, though, to hail the bus, or no? Because Harry loses his wand as soon as he…
Eric: Oh, it’s taken from him.
Micah: Well, doesn’t Pettigrew take it away?
Andrew: Ah, that’s why Pettigrew did that, so he couldn’t call the Knight Bus.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Micah: But also, if this would have happened in Goblet of Fire, we couldn’t connect the threads as well between Prisoner of Azkaban and Order of the Phoenix.
Eric: That’s true.
Andrew: Right, and of course, Cedric needed to die to advance the plot. Blah, blah, blah.
Laura: Also, I just have a feeling that, had the Knight Bus appeared, I think that Stan and Ernie would have been like, “Nope,” and just kept going.
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: “We’re going to ignore this call.”
Micah: Well, and also, then there would have been a lot of witnesses to the fact that Voldemort is back, too.
Andrew: Oh, yeah. Well, that would have been good, right? [laughs]
Micah: Yeah, yeah.
Andrew: Rita Skeeter’s exclusive interview with everybody on the Knight Bus.
Eric: It’s quite possible, since they planned the whole Portkey thing pretty ironclad, that they would have put some kind of spell over the graveyard to prevent people being visible to the outside world. I’m not saying the same shield charms that Hermione uses in DH, but something similar, where you really can’t just hail easy access or something.
Micah: This is what J.K. Rowling was clearly struggling with when writing Goblet of Fire. She didn’t know whether or not to send the Knight Bus to the graveyard.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: There you go.
Micah: But I think it is a cool question, though, from Megan. I will say that.
Andrew: It’s fun!
Micah: Well, we were talking about this earlier: One thing I just thought of – and I can’t remember if it’s the book or the movie – wasn’t it in earlier editions of Goblet of Fire with Priori Incantatem, the people who died came out the wrong way?
Eric and Laura: Yep.
Andrew: Oh, yeah.
Micah: So maybe that’s one example of just a mistake that if she just had more time to write…
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: It was corrected in a later edition. And people thought it was actually a really huge clue, because I believe Lily came out after James, but if it were reversed… or yeah, she should have been the first to come out, but she was the second. So it’s like, “What happened to James? Did he die years later? Is he Lupin?” So we didn’t know.
[Laura laughs]
Micah: Oh yeah, there was that theory. Forgot about that.
Andrew: I did look up the rules of the Knight Bus, and yeah, it looks like it’s just your wand hand that must be stuck into the air. I would not have been critical of the Knight Bus last week if Harry had actually called it and it saved him at the end of Goblet of Fire. But it has served no good purpose, in my opinion, and needs to drive more cautiously. By the way, I just tweeted J.K. Rowling via our Twitter account, “Why didn’t Harry take the Knight Bus at the end of Goblet of Fire in the graveyard?” So we’ll see if she replies.
[Laura laughs]
Micah: All right. You never know.
Andrew: You never know.
Micah: She’s not busy.
Chapter by Chapter: Seven-Word Summary
Andrew: Okay, it’s time now for Chapter by Chapter, and this week we are discussing Order of the Phoenix Chapter 25, “The Beetle at Bay.” We’ll start with our Seven-Word Summary.
Laura: Valentine’s…
[Seven-Word Summary music plays]
Micah: … Day…
Eric: … happens…
Andrew: … amidst…
Eric: … many…
Micah: … bad…
Laura: … choices.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Andrew: Good job.
Micah: I didn’t feel the enthusiasm on that one, though, but that’s okay.
Andrew: I liked it.
Micah: No, it’s good. Where we netted out was good. But I know we don’t want to spend too much time evaluating our Seven-Word Summary.
Andrew: Yeah, because they all suck.
Laura: No, that’s up to the patrons.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Micah: Yeah, that is up to the patrons.
Eric: We’re just doing this for the ratings. Let’s be honest.
Micah: That is. Although, I feel bad; Laura keeps going first every week. That is not a easy responsibility.
Laura: I just try to make it interesting, because it’s so easy to start with “Harry…”
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Laura: And I’ve sworn off of doing that.
Chapter by Chapter: Main Discussion
Micah: All right, well, I actually posted on our Instagram story a photo of what we’re about to talk about. It’s a really great MinaLima print that I got of the Daily Prophet, and it says “Mass breakout from Azkaban,” and this is how the chapter begins. We learn why Voldemort was so happy at the end of the last chapter, and that is because some of his Death Eater besties are now free.
Eric: This has to have been a massive insider job, and I’m still kind of reeling after reading this chapter, wondering how exactly they pulled it off, whether the Dementors just opened the cells of the ten people that Voldemort most wanted to get out for Voldemort? Or if there’s now Aurors guarding Azkaban if the Dementors just completely left? So many unanswered questions so many years later still.
Laura: I think it is pretty heavily implied, though, that one way or the other, the Dementors are no longer under Ministry control, and that’s what has allowed this to happen and also explains the fact that there’s no Dementors out searching for these escaped convicts.
Eric: I really loved when Cho pointed that out to Harry a little later on in the chapter. What a cool way of looking at things.
Micah: Yeah, very cool.
Andrew: It would have been a funny visual to see the Dementors jingling the keys and slowly opening up these gates one by one.
Eric: [laughs] I like that.
Andrew: I just can’t see them doing it like that. I more picture them ripping the jail cells apart somehow, or sucking up these Death Eaters, bringing them through the cell and then spitting them back out, because the Dementors, they must float right through those jail cell bars.
Eric: Oh, yeah.
Laura: Yeah, I’m sure that’s how it works.
Micah: It is definitely…
Laura: I just kind of think they just left.
Micah: They just peaced out?
Laura: They’re just doing their thing. Yeah, they’re just floating around all creepy out in the world, doing whatever they want. Nobody to guard Azkaban.
Micah: Do you think Voldemort just kind of floated up to Azkaban with a bag full of souls and just started throwing them out?
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Laura: He was like, “Hey, guys, treats! Come here!”
[Eric laughs]
Micah: Yeah, “Bob, Johnny, take five. Go on your break.”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Micah: “I need to take care of some things.” But let’s talk a little bit about these Death Eaters that are broken out. We get information on a couple of them, the first of whom is Antonin Dolohov, and he is responsible for the murders of Gideon and Fabian Prewett, who are Molly’s brothers. And later on in the series, he’s responsible for the death of Remus Lupin, but is eventually defeated by Filius Flitwick, and not sure what that entails in terms of him being defeated, if he’s actually killed. But let’s talk a little bit about Molly’s brothers, and that Ron doesn’t seem to have much of a reaction to this news.
Eric: Yeah, I’m a bit surprised. They’re at the Great Hall, and Ron surely would have grown up knowing what happened to his uncles, Gideon and Fabian, and they were in the first Order. Moody has shown Harry the photo. One of them it took, like, five Death Eaters to get him in the end. But really, truly inspirational role model type family members, and you get the sense that maybe Molly didn’t talk about them or doesn’t talk about them, because Ron doesn’t even take a moment to go, “Oh my gosh, Gideon and Fabian Prewett. We didn’t mention this, but those were my uncles. That’s mom’s brothers.”
Andrew: “I forgot who killed ’em, dang.” Maybe he just forgot.
Eric: Right.
Andrew: That seems like a Ron thing.
Eric: Yeah, I agree.
Laura: Yeah, the only thing that I could think of to chalk this up to is the fact that the Weasleys as a family, we’ve seen throughout the series, do not like to be pitied, and I could very much see Ron perhaps internalizing this and not wanting to make this moment about him, because yes, it’s tragic that his uncles died; however, that’s in the past, and hopefully he’s considering the current threat? I don’t know. I’m just trying to justify why this might have happened for a very good reason, and not just Ron being dumb, because I don’t think he’s dumb. I think that’s a movie-ism.
Eric: And Molly honors Gideon and Fabian, her brothers, presumably by naming Fred and George with their first initial, F and G, as brothers.
Micah: It’s also totally possible that Ron is just not really paying attention right now either, because even Harry references it later in the chapter that Hermione is one of the only people that actually reads the Daily Prophet. So maybe Ron is just enjoying his breakfast and just kind of listening, but not really listening, and so… but I think also Hermione would be aware of the fact that those are Molly’s brothers, too. It is a little weird that it’s not talked about a little bit more given the connection. The other thing I wanted to bring up with Dolohov is I wonder if we will see more of that family in the Fantastic Beasts series, because it does have a bit of a Eastern European feel to the last name.
Eric: Yeah, knowing that he is around to eventually kill Lupin. Don’t like the way this list is going so far.
Micah: Yes, he is a bad, bad man. So is Augustus Rookwood, who leaked Ministry secrets to Voldemort. He is later defeated by the one and only Aberforth in the battle for Hogwarts.
Andrew: The one and only, says Micah and only Micah.
[Laura and Micah laugh]
Laura: No, he was there with his army of goats. They just… they charged.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Micah: He uses the Patronus Charm, too, in the movie, right? He knocks away all those Dementors. What do we think his Patronus was? What do we know his Patronus was; not even think.
[Laura laughs]
Micah: It didn’t really take the form in the movie, and I have to say, I’m quite disappointed.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Laura: They probably thought it would be too suggestive.
Micah: Yeah, him standing behind the goat as it shoots out at the Dementors.
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: But everybody else is shooting out animals too.
Micah: That’s true.
Laura: They were like, “No, Micah is going to be way too into this.” [laughs]
Andrew: It would have cost them an extra million dollars to have to animate another Patronus, so they just decided Aberforth’s wasn’t worth it.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Eric: Can you put a price on goat Patroni?
Micah: Not really. Although they did actually have a real goat in Order of the Phoenix when they go to the Hog’s Head. When they first show up, Aberforth is there; he kind of just grunts. There’s no real interaction between him and the trio. And then there’s that little goat that walks into the next room, and he just follows the goat out.
Andrew: I didn’t remember that. This has been goat facts with Micah.
Micah: Yep. All right, let’s talk about Bellatrix. We know she is responsible for the torture and permanent incapacitation of Frank and Alice Longbottom; we just met with them not that long ago. She kills Sirius – spoiler alert – at the end of this book, but gets her comeuppance in the Battle of Hogwarts from Molly Weasley. And this is the one that draws, I think, the most attention; Harry notices how much different she looks compared to the photo that he had seen of her in Kreacher’s hideaway. And I think we should definitely be concerned about the fact now that she, in particular, has escaped from Azkaban.
Andrew: Yes.
Eric: Right.
Andrew: She is unhinged and dangerous and may kill your uncle.
Micah: And may have a very willing assistant back at Grimmauld Place.
Eric: Do you think Kreacher busted them out?
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: No, no.
Eric: Just think, they can go…
Andrew: I mean, that is an interesting crackpot theory, because he was away for a while, so maybe at this point you may put those two pieces together. But no.
Eric: Narcissa was just like, “You do our family proud; you go and you get Auntie Bella,” and Kreacher is like, “No problem, mistress.”
Andrew: “You grab those keys,” yeah. Well, Kreacher would have to try, right? If he’s being commanded to?
Eric: Yeah, all it takes is one house-elf. Everywhere is a real security nightmare.
Andrew: “Kreacher and the Keys,” the new backstory from J.K. Rowling.
Eric: Oh, I love it.
Micah: Now, the Ministry’s position is immediately to blame Sirius Black for this breakout, because hey, Sirius did it a couple years ago, so he knows the ins and the outs. He knows how to break out of Azkaban. Makes sense.
Andrew: He has the keys.
Micah: Yeah, he’s got the keys.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Micah: Is Fudge wrong, though, to make this connection? I don’t… all else aside, it’s actually not that bad of a theory.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Right.
Laura: Yeah, but he has to know at this point that the Dementors are no longer under Ministry control. He may not be willing to admit it to himself, but he has to know.
Eric: Yeah, they’re probably just not even there anymore, if you go to Azkaban to confirm the prisoners are gone. “Oh, where are all the Dementors?”
Andrew: And Hermione points out, what else could Fudge do? He can’t admit that Harry was right.
Eric: I mean, he could; it’s just the hard choices, right?
Andrew: Right, right.
Micah: Let’s just blame Sirius for everything at this point.
Laura: Yep.
Eric: Well, it’s salt on the wound because we know how Sirius is feeling; now he’ll never be able to go outside. This fresh wave of press has once again prevented Sirius from attaining the freedom that he so desperately craves from isolation, and now this is… so the acts of Voldemort and the Death Eaters are only continuing to worsen Sirius’s state. It’s just… this is what I mean when I say that J.K. Rowling plays with Sirius before she kills him. He just is having a really bad year.
Andrew and Laura: Yeah.
Andrew: And come to think of it, it’s really sad that he dies before his name is cleared.
Eric: Right. And this is also the consequences of a government that is not transparent or keeping up with the facts, because Sirius Black was not the only person to escape from Azkaban. As we know, Barty Crouch, Jr. did it as well – many, many years before Sirius Black, in fact – by swapping places with his mother. But Barty Crouch, who was quickly administered the Dementor’s Kiss at the end of last year, had told Harry, had told Dumbledore about his escape from Azkaban, and this is something that Fudge should be well aware of, and yet somehow, especially because of how they treated Barty, that story never came out either. So Fudge doesn’t have a lot of options, because there’s so much that has gone to this point under-reported to the public that there’s no real story they can come up with, except “Let’s just pin it on Sirius Black.”
Laura: Exactly.
Micah: This is the issue… oh, go ahead, Laura.
Laura: Oh, I was going to say and this is also just a great connecting the threads moment between Order of the Phoenix and Prisoner of Azkaban. I mean, not only do you have the breakouts from Azkaban, but you also have, like everyone was alluding to earlier, this theme of imprisonment for Sirius. Whether he’s in a physical prison behind bars, or incapable of living his life publicly, Sirius lives out the last, what, 14-15 years of his life in prison, and we get to witness the end of it. It’s incredibly tragic.
Eric: Forever a prisoner, never a bridesmaid. Wait, I said that wrong.
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: Oh well. Never a bride.
Laura: Yep. Always a prisoner, never a bride.
Eric: There you go.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Micah: Yeah, and also is the subject of a hunt, really, by the Ministry under false pretenses, because he’s not responsible either time for what he is being convicted of, or I should say charged with, right? He wasn’t responsible for what happened to the Potters, and now he’s not responsible for what happened with this breakout from Azkaban. And there’s a major shift, though, in tone following this news spreading around the school – Harry picks up on it – and I think this is when people start to really catch on to what’s happening, and there’s this realization that, “You know what? Ten former Death Eaters break out of Azkaban. It seems a little bit fishy. And to put it on somebody that hasn’t been… well, and Sirius, right? Who knows where he is, what he’s doing? But this sounds like Voldemort to me, not really Sirius.”
Andrew: Right, especially when you factor in that Harry has been saying this for a while, and you just asked if Fudge was wrong to think Sirius could be behind the breakout from a strategy point, yes, because the public does start to think differently about what the Ministry has been saying and what Harry has been saying. And of course, this shift in tone towards Harry and treatment of Harry comes into play later when Hermione decides that Harry is going to come forward with his story in The Quibbler.
Eric: Right. But I mean, think of all the resources that are being wasted tracking Sirius Black when he is very much not going anywhere, protected by a Fidelius Charm. He’s really… all of the Ministry resources, how much it’s costing for something that they know is not going to produce any actual results. It’s like funding a search for weapons of mass destruction you know aren’t there. It just is a waste of time and money. And I’m glad that at the end of all of this, the public outcry is so great – of course, it takes the death of Sirius and a return of Voldemort – but eventually, the public outcry is so great that Fudge gets ousted from his position, hoisted on his petard because of these lies. It’s quite hopeful. Good for the wizarding world.
Micah: Yeah, there’s a lot of fake news that’s being pushed out, and the Daily Prophet, as we learn later on in this chapter, has really become a puppet of the Ministry and is only going to print what the Ministry wants it to print. And I think that’s a major issue, and we’ll talk more about it. But one person who does respond in a positive way to this news is Neville, and it’s noted that he shows a ton of progress in Dumbledore’s Army lessons. He’s much more focused. He’s really second best only to Hermione, which, I mean, let’s face it, that’s pretty damn good compared to what we normally think of Neville, compared to what we saw of him just a couple chapters ago in St. Mungo’s. So this was unfortunate that it took something like this to motivate Neville, but he’s definitely in the zone now.
Andrew and Eric: Yeah.
Andrew: And it shows the true skills that he actually possesses.
Eric: Right, yeah. Talk about a glow-up, you guys.
Andrew: We were thinking, because Neville does have this glow-up and he’s feeling empowered, what song would be a good glow-up track for Neville? And we each picked one, and we’re going to reveal them to each other for the first time right now. Laura, let’s listen to your Neville glow-up track first.
Laura: Sure.
[“Roar” by Katy Perry plays]
You held me down, but I got up
Already brushing off the dust
You hear my voice, you hear that sound
Like thunder, gonna shake the ground
You held me down, but I got up
Get ready ’cause I’ve had enough
I see it all, I see it now
I got the eye of the tiger, a fighter
Dancing through the fire
‘Cause I am a champion
Andrew: So the excellent Katy Perry song “Roar.”
Laura: Just felt right, you know?
Eric: I love that.
Micah: That’s great.
Eric: For Gryffindor.
Laura: [laughs] Exactly.
Andrew: Oh, that’s perfect.
Eric: Paying attention in class, kicking some ass…
Andrew: That should be their theme song.
Micah: I think you and I were thinking pretty much along the same lines.
Laura: Oh.
Andrew: Uh-oh. Well, let’s listen to Micah’s.
Laura: I think I have a good guess of what yours could be.
Eric: Did you pick the same song?
Micah: No, we did not.
[“Eye of the Tiger” by Survivor plays]
Laura: I knew it.
Andrew: Yeah! All right, so “Eye of the Tiger.”
Micah: By Survivor, not by Katy Perry.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: But close enough.
Laura: They could do a crossover, I think.
Micah: You know what I was thinking, Laura? We must have Tiger King on the brain too.
Laura: Yep.
Andrew: Oh, stop it with Tiger King.
Laura: Can never get rid of it. Not a day goes by where it doesn’t come up.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: Let’s listen to Eric’s choice.
[“Maniac” by Michael Sembello plays]
Locking rhythms to the beat of her heart
Changing movement into light
She has danced into the danger zone
When the dancer becomes the dance
It can cut you like a knife
If the gift becomes the fire
On the wire between will and what will be
Andrew: Eric’s always got quirky song choices.
She’s a maniac, maniac on the floor
Eric: Woo!
Andrew: Why is Neville a maniac?
Eric: Working up a sweat. He’s out on the dance floor, man. He is getting it.
Andrew: I see. Okay, and here’s my choice.
[“Back in the Saddle: by Aerosmith plays]
I’m back, I’m back in the saddle again
I’m back, I’m back in the saddle again
Andrew: He’s got it, y’all.
[Eric and Micah laugh]
Andrew: “Back in the Saddle” by Aerosmith.
Micah: Nice. I think those were all good. Those are all… I could see them playing that in the Order of the Phoenix movie.
Eric: Absolutely.
Laura: They all feel like great montage songs.
Andrew: Right, exactly. And Order of the Phoenix movie had plenty of montages, so a whole montage dedicated to Neville.
Eric: Now, as a sort of a surprise to our panel here, I’ve gone and done something a little bit funny in relation to this segment. I actually went over onto Spotify, where our podcast is now streaming, and I’ve created a playlist which is collaborative and public called “Neville Gets Swole.”
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: Oh, perfect.
Micah: Awesome.
Eric: And my encouragement is to all of our listeners to add to this playlist your… we’ve got our top four that are added by us, and then I think we’ll probably come back to it, but I want everybody to add their Neville workout/Neville glow-up tracks to this, and we’ll create a huge beacon of inspiration throughout the coming weeks.
Andrew: I love it, and this will be a great gym playlist for everybody, I think.
Eric and Micah: Yeah.
Micah: Work out at home.
Eric: That’s the idea.
Andrew: I love how the playlist description is just this quote from the Order of the Phoenix book about Neville getting it together.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Micah: Well, while we may be determining songs that celebrate Neville’s newfound determination, traditionally on MuggleCast when we lose a character, we used to play a song as well. I don’t know that we’re going to do that here, but we lost Broderick Bode in this chapter. It’s another article in the Daily Prophet that’s just kind of there, but not really front and center, and we learn that he was strangled by Devil’s Snare in his hospital room at St. Mungo’s, and of course, the trio remember that they saw him when they were recently visiting the hospital, and they actually saw the plant delivered. And Harry is beating himself up that they didn’t remember that it was Devil’s Snare, but I’m pretty sure it was disguised, wasn’t it?
Eric: It was in the pot, I think.
Laura: Yeah, and we would have only seen the Devil’s Snare as a full plant, and I think this was a trimming of a plant that wouldn’t have been immediately recognizable.
Andrew: Right, right. Yeah, it was interesting that Harry beat himself up over this. He doesn’t need to be protecting everybody all the time. You don’t need to be looking out for people in a hospital; there are people who are paid to be there.
Eric: Right.
Andrew: But yeah, this kind of reminded me of Venus flytraps here in the Muggle world. I used to love those plants because they would just eat a bug when a bug crawled in there, right?
Eric: Yeah, absolutely.
Andrew: Did you guys ever have one of those?
Micah: Or your finger.
Andrew: Yeah, but they’re just little babies. They can’t actually hurt you.
Micah: Well, have you seen Little Shop of Horrors?
Andrew: No.
Eric: I was going to say, the Bode farewell song, I’m thinking, is the finale of that show, “Don’t Feed the Plants.”
[Andrew and Micah laugh]
Eric: That’s what I would do. [laughs] But what a way to go, because you know that Devil’s Snare… isn’t the secret to not move? So your natural inclination toward panic when something like this comes out and grips you would, in the end, be your downfall. It’s sort of poetic, and it’s kind of like a mob hit, where he has to… he’s the cause of his own death, in a way.
Andrew: Yeah, if I wanted to kill somebody in the wizarding world, this is probably how I would do it. I would just take a little clipping of Devil’s Snare and mail it to somebody who I hated or needed to kill, and they would just open it up and boom, goodbye.
Laura: Yeah. I mean, clearly the wizarding world does not inspect its mail.
Andrew: Right!
Micah: It’s also somewhat surprising that three 11-year-olds can get through it in Sorcerer’s Stone, but an Unspeakable from the Department of Mysteries doesn’t know how to fight off Devil’s Snare.
Andrew: Good point. I also have these three succulents sitting next to me, and now I’m really paranoid they’re going to come to life and eat me.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Micah: Just make sure you water them. Or maybe you don’t want to now.
Andrew: Right. Yeah, they’re sitting in the sun? I don’t want that. I’m going to throw these out after the show.
Laura: Plant murder.
Micah: Yep. But this is an important moment, too, because I think not only do you get the breakout from Azkaban, but you’re learning that a member of the Order has now been killed, and it’s happening within the same moment here. So I want to talk a little bit about Hagrid and Trelawney, really the two classes that we get the most of in this chapter, and both of them are on probation. I don’t think there’s any surprise that Hagrid is now on probation, and Harry again… he’s upset about this, but why? Is he surprised? He should have known if Umbridge was coming to evaluate Hagrid’s class… we know what happened during that class; Hagrid was just all over the place, and Umbridge took every opportunity to make him look a fool and less than intelligent. And I think people have more to be concerned about right now than the fact that Hagrid is on probation.
Andrew: Yeah, I think it’s that, and I also think, is Hagrid that universally beloved throughout the school? I don’t really get that impression.
Laura: No, he’s really not.
Andrew: And meanwhile Grubbly-Plank has been teaching, and maybe they’re all just Plank people. They really like her.
Laura: [laughs] I think the issue here is that it wouldn’t have mattered if Hagrid had led an exemplary class; Umbridge would have still found a way to put him on probation because she’s discriminating against him. I think that’s the root of this issue, is that Hagrid’s teaching abilities aren’t what’s on probation here. It’s his heritage.
Eric: Right.
Andrew: No, I agree with that, but the students may not be thinking that, and why the students aren’t reacting negatively, I think it’s just because they see how he teaches classes, and they’re like, “That makes sense.”
[Eric laughs]
Micah: Yeah, there’s definitely questionable attributes to a number of professors that are hired at Hogwarts, and Hagrid is definitely one of them. But I think, though, the fact that Umbridge is constantly present in these classes, both for Trelawney and for Hagrid, it adds an extra layer of pressure and it creates a very uncomfortable classroom, and I think we see evidence of that. And I’m just wondering, does she need to be there? They’re on probation. We understand what that means, but it seems like she’s disrupting the flow of these lessons and these kids’ education.
Laura: Yes, 100%. She does not need to be there every time. And I know I’ve spoken about this before, but I was formerly a teacher, and anytime somebody comes to observe your class, there’s a level of disruption that comes with that. And the people who do it well are the ones who sort of slip in after everybody’s already seated and focused and remain very quiet and leave a couple minutes before the class wraps, so that ideally, the students might not even have noticed they were there. But Umbridge wants everyone to know she’s there, because again, she doesn’t care about the level of education being provided; she cares about control.
Andrew and Eric: Yeah.
Eric: And she’s high on power, too. This is… she really has nothing better to do and the teachers can’t stop her, so she does this. It’s a waste of her time. It’s a waste of everybody’s time.
Micah: One other thing I just thought of, too, is that it’s mentioned about how Trelawney is roaming around the halls and she’s smelling of cooking sherry. Hagrid also later on in this chapter is drinking, and it’s clearly something that’s affecting both of them to the point that they feel like they need to go and get drunk.
Laura: Yep.
Micah: So actually, add that to the suck count.
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: I mean, not only are your… right, I mean, it’s one thing to have your professional abilities questioned privately with your direct superior, but to have it laid out in front of the people that you’re trying to teach, that’s just a huge distraction for everyone, and is going to have the end effect of making that person a bad teacher.
Eric: Yep, self-fulfilling.
Micah: It’s embarrassing.
Andrew: It is. I think everybody can relate to this on some level. Just imagine if you were podcasting right now and somebody was sitting over your shoulder judging your every move, or if you’re cooking or playing in a video game tournament or building something. Having somebody watching you, judging you, assessing you, is very stressful.
Laura: Yeah, or even if you’ve ever been called out by a boss or something very publicly.
Andrew: Right.
Laura: I think this would feel very similar. I’m sure most people have some kind of experience with that.
Eric: JY, who’s listening live over on Patreon, says that the HP Lexicon calendar has a question in it: How is Umbridge teaching her own classes at this time? That’s interesting, because it’s not just Harry’s class; she’s got all the classes from all the levels of Hogwarts, Defense Against the Dark Arts. You would think she wouldn’t have the free time to trail these teachers in all of their sessions.
Andrew: She’s just telling them to read this book. We’re not doing any practical lessons.
Micah: Right. Yeah, she doesn’t…
Laura: Yeah, she doesn’t have to plan.
Micah: [laughs] I was just going to say, there’s no lesson planning.
Andrew: Yeah, there’s nothing… she’s not teaching. [laughs]
Eric: Do you think that she just took a Time Turner from the Department of Mysteries and…?
Andrew and Micah: No.
Eric: Because they haven’t all been destroyed yet. I mean, how’s she getting to all these classes? There’s so many of them!
Micah: It’s a great question.
Eric: I think she’s using a Time-Turner, because that ties it back to Book 3.
Andrew: She’s a very efficient woman. Subtract one from the suck count.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Andrew: She’s organized. Good for her.
Laura: Geez.
Micah: I will say she is abusive, not as much to Hagrid in this chapter, but to Trelawney in particular, because she’s demanding that she do certain things within her classroom that we all know is just not going to happen. There is a nice little nugget in there, too: I think they’re studying in that class…. I looked it up, and I forget the names of exactly what it’s called, but one is the study of the number seven, and the other is the study of birds and omens associated with them, and when I looked it up, it actually mentioned the augury, which I thought was interesting.
Eric: Ornithomancy and Heptomology.
Micah: Yes. The first is the birds; the second is the number seven.
Eric: Thank you.
Micah: Laura, you talked a little bit about this: Hagrid’s teaching methods are questioned in both Prisoner of Azkaban and Order of the Phoenix.
Laura: Yes. So of course, in Prisoner of Azkaban we have Hagrid having to meet with a committee in order to try and get Buckbeak off, but then we see how that works out. And there’s also a great deal of corruption on this committee because Lucius Malfoy is on it, and now we’re seeing direct Ministry corruption at Hogwarts as Umbridge tries to undermine Hagrid in his profession, in addition to Trelawney. And Micah, I think you noted this here, that both Care of Magical Creatures and Divination are introduced in Prisoner of Azkaban, so that’s a nice little connecting the threads bow there.
Micah: And they’re now really under threat; at least the teachers themselves are under threat here in Order of the Phoenix. And I would even add to that; I would say Trelawney is under scrutiny in both books. We talked about, I think, way back when we first started this Chapter by Chapter, how Hermione is super critical Trelawney in Prisoner of Azkaban, and Umbridge is the one in Order of the Phoenix.
Laura: Yeah. And also, Hermione is the person making a scene in Divination classes in Prisoner of Azkaban. She’s very disruptive. She openly mocks Trelawney, not maybe to the extent that Umbridge does it in Order of the Phoenix, but still, it’s almost uncharacteristic of Hermione, and I think it’s because she’s threatened by the practice that she doesn’t totally understand.
Eric: Right.
Micah: But she does – Umbridge does, anyway – introduce a brand new Educational Decree in this chapter, which you know immediately goes to the suck count.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: It’s been drying up lately. We haven’t had enough Umbridge.
Micah: Well, he’s been away from Hogwarts, so now that he’s back… teachers are hereby banned from giving students any information that is not strictly related to the subjects they are paid to teach, and this is, of course, in reaction to the news in the Daily Prophet.
Andrew: Yeah, it’s just laughable on multiple levels. First of all, she calls out, I think, Fred and George for something a few minutes later, and then Seamus, I believe, says, “Well, why are you talking to them? You’re betraying your own decree.” But also, there’s more to the teacher/student relationship than the subjects that they teach and that they learn.
Micah: Of course.
Andrew: So to suddenly cut off the teachers from speaking to their students about anything but their lessons is really terrible.
Micah: It begs the question: Does this apply to Heads of House?
Andrew: I think so.
Micah: So you’re saying McGonagall can’t talk to the Gryffindor students about anything other than Transfiguration.
Eric: Right.
Andrew: I guess so, yeah.
Micah: And how is that enforced?
Andrew: So how does she issue some updates about the Houses and whatnot? That seems problematic. Of course, Umbridge didn’t think this through.
Micah: And it also made me wonder if she knew or was catching on about Harry’s Occlumency lessons, knowing that Snape is teaching Harry something other than what he needs to know, but it may be too early to ask that question.
Andrew: Well, the main reason for this decree, right, was because of the breakout at Azkaban. And she’s sitting there watching Minerva and Dumbledore talk at the table in the Great Hall, and she’s probably thinking that they’re going to spread some of the information that they’re discussing to their students, and she’s getting ahead of it by issuing this decree. And of course, students are going to be asking their teachers questions, too, like, “How did the Death Eaters escape from Azkaban?”
Eric: Yeah, or “Who were they? How do I spot them?” Any information the teachers give could keep the kids safe, but that is not Umbridge’s priority here. Umbridge wants to control information.
Laura: And this is also just another great connection to real world instances of authoritarian governments really targeting educational institutions in order to quash out any attempts at liberating students and young people from the prevailing narrative that is being passed down by the government.
Micah: Yeah, and it’s also… I know we mentioned this earlier on in the chapter; you’ve had ten Death Eaters who have broken out from Azkaban, yet you’re allowing your students to go out of the castle to Hogsmeade, where in Prisoner of Azkaban, think of all the security, the Dementors that were in place to protect against just one, just Sirius Black. Now you have ten that are out there, and you don’t even have Aurors or Ministry officials stationed in Hogsmeade. That’s highly questionable.
Andrew: Well, also interesting is that the students don’t really seem to care either; they’ll happily head to Hogsmeade. And apparently their parents are cool with this happening as well. Don’t you think the parents should have sent an owl being like, “Hey, you should probably stay inside the castle right now. Ten Death Eaters escaped. This is ten times worse than when that Sirius crook escaped. Please stay indoors.” But no, there’s none of that.
Laura: Well, it just goes to show, if you have wrong information coming from the very top of your society, it has a trickle-down effect on everyone else.
Andrew: Right.
Laura: I mean, not to get too real world here, but look at the number of situations that we have here in this country of people thinking that COVID-19 is a hoax and going out and ignoring social distancing guidelines, despite the fact that our health organizations are telling us, “No, this is a very real threat.” But we have such mixed messaging coming from our government that people don’t know what to believe, and therefore they’re just going to pick whatever information best suits them.
Andrew: Yeah, and if the Ministry is saying, “Don’t be concerned here,” then their constituents are going to think the same thing. “The Ministry is not concerned; I’m not concerned either.”
Laura: Yeah, and they’re going to say, “I can live my life. I can go to Hogsmeade. No big deal.”
Micah: It’s also touched upon for Harry that his lessons with Snape – I know we were just talking a little bit about the Occlumency lessons – they’re getting worse, right? There’s a quote where he says that “He had the horrible impression that he was slowly turning into a kind of aerial that was tuned in to tiny fluctuations in Voldemort’s mood, and he was sure he could date this increased sensitivity firmly from his first Occlumency lesson with Snape.” And Ron has a moment where he flat out asks the question, “Well, could Snape actually be working on behalf of Voldemort to weaken Harry’s condition as opposed to helping him?” And I know, Laura, you had another connecting the threads between Snape’s teaching ability and Lupin’s.
Laura: Yeah, I mean, when Harry is having his private lessons in Prisoner of Azkaban with Lupin, he’s getting progressively better at fighting Dementors, which, again, Dementors have a very similar effect to what Harry is feeling right now in terms of weakening you if you don’t know how to fight them. They’re literally soul-suckers. But Lupin really helps to build Harry up. And of course, we know at this point that Snape is not deliberately trying to tear Harry down, but that is sort of the end result here, so it’s definitely a very interesting parallel to see the difference in teaching styles and how no matter how brilliant you are, if you don’t approach teaching with kindness and understanding, it’s not going to work very well.
Andrew: You know, Ron’s theory at the time made sense to anybody who was skeptical of Snape, which was, like, half the readership if not more. [laughs]
Eric: Yeah, I found it interesting. It should be given a little bit more credit than it gets, I think.
Micah: I agree, I think it’s dismissed too easily. Hermione is very much of the mindset that, “Oh, well, Dumbledore trusts Snape, so you should trust Snape, Harry.”
Andrew: Right.
Micah: And it’s actually… yeah, it’s a well-founded question that he’s asking. We don’t necessarily have any proof yet as to why we should trust Snape.
Andrew: [laughs] And doesn’t Hermione say, “Ron, you have never been right”?
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: Reading this back, I’m like, “What if the big twist, one of the big twists, would have been that Ron actually was right about Snape the whole time?” That would have been a cool twist by J.K. Rowling. [laughs]
Micah: Yep.
Andrew: And she would have been setting us up to be surprised because Hermione is saying, “Oh, well, Dumbledore trusts Snape. I trust Snape since Dumbledore trusts Snape, so you should trust Snape too.” That would have been so good.
Laura: I mean, I feel like this was a running trend in the books. I don’t have any examples that come to mind, but wasn’t there a theory going around back in the day, like, “Pay attention to Ron’s seemingly stupid recommendations, because they end up coming true”? And at least if you think about where we were as the books were coming out, this happens in Order of the Phoenix, and then in Half-Blood Prince, Snape kills Dumbledore, and I think at the time that really threw Snape’s allegiances into question for folks. And there was a camp of people who were like, “Yep, Ron’s been trying to tell us the whole time. Snape is not a good guy.”
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: So in a way, she kind of did vindicate Ron’s earlier suspicions throughout the series.
Andrew: That’s a great point.
Micah: Totally, yeah. Ron was just standing there with a sign after Dumbledore fell saying “Told you so.”
[Everyone laughs]
Micah: Well, as Harry is exiting the Great Hall to go meet up with Cho for their Valentine’s Day – it seems like so long ago we were doing that Seven-Word Summary – little date, he runs into Hagrid, and Hagrid makes it clear to him that he should not be coming down to his hut and visiting him. And there’s this quote where Harry, he feels like he’s being deprived of everything that made Hogwarts Hogwarts, right? He can’t visit Hagrid, he can’t send letters to Sirius, his Firebolt is gone, he can’t play Quidditch, and Umbridge is just really making his fifth year at Hogwarts absolute misery.
Laura: I thought this was interesting, because there’s actually another parallel to Prisoner of Azkaban here. In Prisoner of Azkaban, they had a curfew because of Sirius being out, so they couldn’t freely go to visit Hagrid. In Prisoner of Azkaban, Harry didn’t have a Firebolt. He didn’t have a godfather. He wasn’t able to have the same level of freedom at the school that he’d had in the first two books. So I’m wondering what’s different here, because it feels like there were a number of restrictions in place in Prisoner of Azkaban that prevented Hogwarts from feeling like Hogwarts.
Micah: I think it’s perspective.
Andrew: The older you get, the more problems you encounter, and the sadder life becomes, Laura. That’s the difference.
Laura: [laughs] Wow. That’s very bleak.
Andrew: That’s the difference.
Micah: That was real.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Andrew: [sighs] I gotta go, guys.
Micah: See you later, Andrew.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: Don’t you want to come to Hogsmeade with us?
Andrew: I do.
Micah: We’re about to embark on first date territory, and man was this awkward, as most first dates are. But you feel bad for Harry a little bit, but you also feel bad for Cho. And initially they get over that awkwardness, and they’re walking down to Hogsmeade and they connect over Quidditch, which makes sense; they’re both great Quidditch players.
Andrew: Good.
Micah: And there’s a mention of the Quidditch match from Prisoner of Azkaban when they first played against each other, and that was another nice connecting the threads.
Laura: Correct.
Micah: But are we surprised it’s awkward? No, right? It’s two 15-year-olds going on a date for the first time.
Laura: Yep.
Andrew: I think J.K. Rowling might allude to Harry not giving this upcoming date much thought in the days prior, but maybe he should have been thinking of some questions to ask his date. Isn’t that what you do before going on a date? You think about the types of questions you’ll be asking? They could have bonded over how much Umbridge was sucking. I mean, they could have gone through our list of 50 instances where she sucks so far.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: Could talk about the weather. Could talk about their favorite brooms. I mean, they could probably talk Quidditch for hours, since they both play.
Eric: Right.
Andrew: Strategizing, best equipment…
Laura: Well, and that seems to be a great topic to start them out with. I mean, they actually have a really great conversation all the way into the village, and Harry even notes how easy it is to talk to her at first, so I think he’s actually doing pretty well here. And I also just love… this is another instance of J.K. Rowling really capturing the teenage experience. When Harry thinks about walking over to Cho, he’s like, suddenly his feet felt too big for his body, and he didn’t know what to do with his arms. And I feel like everybody’s had that experience of being like, “Oh, where do I put my arms? I look so dumb.”
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: Yeah, and the stress around touching their hand. J.K. Rowling writes about how hard that would be, which, yeah, those are big things on a first date.
Micah: Totally.
Andrew: Or a second or third.
Micah: But I do agree with what you’re saying, Andrew, not just about thinking up some topics of conversation, but what exactly it is that they’re going to do when they go to Hogsmeade, because they seem lost.
Andrew: Yeah. Yeah, you need some plans.
Micah: Yeah, at least say, “Oh, you know what? You want to go to the Three Broomsticks? You want to go to…” any other place but Madam Puddifoot’s, honestly.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: Because that’s where things just go off the rails.
Andrew: “Do you want to go ride Escape from Gringotts? What do you want to do?”
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: “There’s all kinds of things we could do. We can get a butterbeer, some ice cream…”
Eric: Take a picture by the snowman…
Laura: I kind of get it, though, because this seems to me like… and I’ve been in this experience, not just as a 15-year-old, but as a grown adult, where you’re trying to be super casual. You don’t want it to feel like there’s too much pressure, right? You don’t want to be that person who comes to a first date with an itinerary, right?
Micah: True.
Laura: So they’re just casual. “Let’s go to village and hang out, and we’ll figure it out there.” And then they suddenly get there, and they’re like, “Uhh…”
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: But do you think Cho had an agenda in terms of bringing Harry to Madam Puddifoot’s?
Andrew: Yeah, she wanted to make out.
Micah: And not like, kissy-kissy agenda. There’s things she wants to know here.
Eric: Yeah, this is where it all goes wrong, is Cho’s picking, I mean, one of the few places that she knows, but it’s got history, and it’s particularly suited to bring out the absolute worst in their shared past. She really is… turns out, this isn’t really supposed to be a date, even though it’s on Valentine’s Day. She really wants to talk about Cedric, right? I mean, she needs to talk about Cedric, but Harry is so distracted by all the romance, and Cedric, it even says in this chapter, is the very last topic Harry wants to talk about.
Andrew: And it should be for anybody who’s on a Valentine’s Day date. I really hate how Cho wants to bring up Cedric. I feel like she brings up Cedric because the date is going badly.
Laura: Yes, she only brings Cedric up because Harry is like, “Oh, hey, I know that we’ve only been on this date for an hour, but can I ditch you at noon to go hang out with another girl?”
Andrew: Right, right.
Laura: I think if Harry had made the day about them spending time together, or if he had really leaned in to the romantic side of things – which I think is what she was angling for – I don’t think Cedric would have ever come up, at least not during this date.
Andrew: Exactly. She’s reminding Harry, “Other boys were into me, so why are you going off to hang out with Hermione?”
Laura: Exactly.
Andrew: “You’re missing out.”
Laura: Yeah, but she’s also kind of subtly like, “Why am I wasting my time with you here? I had other dudes lined up ready to take me out for a great Valentine’s Day, and here you are, like, ‘I want to go hang out with this other chick.'”
Andrew: Right. What the hell?
Eric: Well, we all know it’s not like that, right? But Cho doesn’t, and Harry doesn’t… Harry is kind of too stunned by the implication that he doesn’t… I mean, he probably would get defensive, but he even laughs at her, I think.
Micah: Well, he doesn’t laugh at her; he laughs at the Hermione situa… once it clicks in his mind why she’s saying the things that she’s saying because of Hermione, that’s why he laughs, so it’s not really directed at her. But yeah, I mean, unlike the last chapter where Harry finally picked up on what she was putting out there, he’s clueless throughout pretty much the entirety of the conversation that they’re having, and I agree, that’s why it goes off the rails. That’s why it goes into Cedric territory. And you have Roger Davies, who’s right next to them – behind them, whatever – and they’re getting hot and heavy at the table…
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: … and Harry is feeling all the pressure to do the same thing. And Roger ends up getting used against Harry, too, because Cho says straight up, “Hey, he asked me out a couple weeks ago.”
Andrew: Yeah, “That could have been me making out with him.”
Micah: Right.
Andrew: “Instead I’m stuck with you, who’s going to hang out with another girl.” By the way, anybody who makes out in public: Please, no.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Andrew: Just bad, wrong, stupid, gross, etc., etc.
Laura: But this is also another very teenage moment, right?
Andrew: [laughs] Yeah, but unfortunately, you see grown adults doing this in Starbucks too, and it’s like, “Eugh.”
[Eric laughs]
Laura: How often do you see this in Starbucks?
Andrew: I see many weird things across this wonderful country.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: The other thing I wanted to bring up, though, was what was Hermione thinking by inviting Harry to hang out knowing that he was going on a Valentine’s Day date with Cho? She’s been a translator for Harry and Ron in terms of how to treat girls and what girls may be thinking, and yet she’s inviting Harry right after his date with Cho. She should know how Cho would respond to that news. And yeah, Hermione says, “You can invite Cho along too,” but shouldn’t she know that Cho is going to look at this negatively and be annoyed by this?
Eric: Yeah, absolutely, 100%, you nailed it on the head. I completely blame Hermione for this date, and therefore relationship, unraveling, because she should know better, and she takes no break from insulting Harry and telling him he doesn’t understand girls in the next chapter when he says about how the date went wrong. But really, the only reason that you can’t necessarily blame her is Hermione knows the importance of what it is that she is about to do. This is the opportunity where Harry can set the record straight with Rita, as we know, and there won’t be another opportunity again. Umbridge is locking down the school. That might be the only justification, but at least then a heads-up would have been more, I guess, valued, because she tells him the day of, right? Hermione invites Harry last minute, and Harry is like, “Well, I don’t know how long this date is going to go.” I’ve had that happen to me, too, where you don’t know how long plans are going to last.
Andrew: And Hermione doesn’t even tell Harry why they need to meet over there, so Harry can’t even bring any information to Cho, just that he’s going to go hang out with Hermione for some reason.
Eric and Laura: Yeah.
Laura: I mean, Hermione probably knows if she told Harry it was to meet with Rita Skeeter, he’d be like, “Uh, pass.”
[Eric laughs]
Laura: But yeah, I agree. I think that it would have been helpful for her to be like, “Okay, I need you to come do this, but maybe tell Cho this.” A little bit of guidance might have been helpful here for him.
Andrew and Micah: Yeah.
Eric: Cho is clearly threatened by Hermione. Why? Have Harry and Hermione…? Everybody knows they’re close friends, but why is Cho or any other girl threatened by the mere mention of Hermione?
Andrew: She thinks that Harry might have a crush on her, too, or Hermione’s got a crush on Harry.
Eric: But what gave her that impression? She must be watching too many Steve Kloves movies.
Laura: [laughs] I think that that’s a pretty normal reaction for teenagers in this situation. You have to think, Cho is in another House, so she doesn’t witness Harry and Hermione’s friendship up close; she just sees it from afar and sees that they’re always together. Plus she’s coming off the heels of the previous year where Rita Skeeter was writing column inches about Harry and Hermione being in a relationship.
Eric: Oh, I guess that’s a good connection.
Micah: Very true. I also think in this moment, Cho is just looking for something for Harry to give her that’s going to let her just unleash on him.
Laura: Yeah, she’s ready to be mad.
Micah: Yeah, and he does it by mentioning Hermione. And I also just think from Hermione – going to your question, Andrew – it’s just a bad suggestion to meet up with her later on in the day. I get it; you’re only going to get Rita Skeeter this moment. You’re away from the castle, no Umbridge. But this is Valentine’s Day; it’s date night. That’d be like if I went on date and then I was like, “Oh, by the way, I’m going to hang out with the boys afterwards,” and it’s Valentine’s Day.
Andrew: Right.
Micah: That shit is not going to go over very well.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Laura: Oof, yeah, that is a fail. Never do that.
[Micah laughs]
Andrew: Well, yeah, so Harry should have just lied. Like, “Hey, I’ve got to go. I’ve got to go finish this homework.
Micah: Or he should have just tried to have a nice date. But I get Hermione putting this in his mind; now he thinks it’s something that he has to do because Hermione asked him to do it, whereas if she didn’t say anything, he could have had probably a pretty nice date. Maybe they could have worked through some of this stuff.
Andrew: Yeah, they could have held hands. [laughs]
Micah: So Hermione is to blame for Harry’s date going bad.
Laura: Well…
Micah: [laughs] Not entirely.
Laura: I don’t think it’s fair, yeah, because Harry clearly doesn’t know how to go on a date, which also, I mean, that’s just part of growing up. These are experiences that everybody has. And I’m sure that in retrospect, both Harry and Cho would look back on this and laugh, because Cho is not being totally rational here either, right? They’re just both coming to the table with different agendas in mind. Cho was really hoping for a romantic Valentine’s Day, and Harry is like, “I don’t know how to be romantic.” [laughs]
Andrew: Right.
Laura: So it’s just mismatched agendas, neither of which was wrong. I will say, this tea shop sounds awful.
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: The tea shop is Andrew’s version of Starbucks times a thousand.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: Yeah. Also, coffee for 15-year-olds? This is before Starbucks was a thing, when this book was being written, so yeah. I mean, I never had coffee at 15, so I’m surprised.
Laura: Oh, I did.
Andrew: It’s right around where I got into it. But it actually made me think, why isn’t there a coffee shop at Diagon Alley at Universal? I would love some official Harry Potter coffee. Remember we were talking about that being available at that New York store, if that opens this summer? Now who knows… but I’m so excited for that. I love coffee. I love Harry Potter. Give me Harry Potter coffee.
Eric: Oh my God, they could do a new restaurant in Hogsmeade in the theme park for couples.
Micah: Well, have you tried the coffee that we were talking about on a previous episode?
Andrew: I did. I got the Raven… or no, I got the Slytherin, and it was caramel, like, “Cunning Caramel.” It was okay. It was strong; the scent was overwhelming.
Micah: Yeah, it’s really bold.
Andrew: Yeah, really bold. There is an unofficial Harry Potter coffee shop in Las Vegas. There’s two of them now, actually. I went to one a couple months ago called Bad Owl, and I think I Instagrammed it… or no, I posted it on Patreon. Never spoke about that on air, I think. It was really good, really cool inside, awesome Harry Potter theme. And yeah, I’ll be back. But I want official Harry Potter coffee, please and thank you.
Micah: Well, the opposite of a coffee shop would be a bar, and that’s where Hagrid is.
[Eric laughs]
Micah: And he is lamenting over his family, and he’s clearly thinking of Grawp, who we have yet to be introduced to yet in this book, and you kind of feel bad from him. We were touching on this a little bit earlier; I think a lot of it has to do with his family, but I think a lot of it has to do with him being so scrutinized by Umbridge, and his class is not going well. He’s getting beat up all the time; he looks like hell. And this was a nice connecting moment between Harry and Hagrid, even though they’re both just kind of sitting there in silence. I don’t know. It reminded me of bit of a throwback to earlier books between the two of them.
Eric: Yeah, the love is still there, you know? And Hagrid actually says to Harry, one of the few things he does say is, “Ah, we’re the same, don’t you reckon?” Which struck me as being very interesting, because it’s not the first comparison you would ever make between… [laughs]
Andrew: “Look at these two!”
Eric: “Oh yeah, these two characters that have a remarkable similarity with one another.” So I had the idea of how many comparisons can we draw between Hagrid and Harry? Of course, he says that both of them are orphans and both of them are outsiders. I came up with two more, kind of tongue-in-cheek. Well, one of them is not tongue-in-cheek, that their family gives them a hard time, right? Who can’t relate to that, honestly? But the second one was they both know fewer than ten spells.
Andrew: Wow.
[Everyone laughs]
Laura: Ouch.
Micah: Let’s see…
Eric: Hagrid because he was expelled, and Harry for obvious reasons.
Micah: Both their names start with the letter H.
Eric: Oh, there you go!
Andrew: Yep. They both like taunting the Dursleys. They both hate Umbridge.
Micah: Both love Buckbeak.
Andrew: Both love big creatures: Fluffy, Buckbeak, Grawp.
Laura: Both of them come under great levels of scrutiny throughout the series.
Eric: And they persevere.
Laura: Yeah, we need a glow-up song for Hagrid too.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Eric: Let’s just… we’ll make it the joint Neville/Hagrid playlist.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: If anybody has any other good comparisons, send them in, funny or otherwise.
Micah: All right, let’s wrap up the chapter now. We’ve alluded to this a lot, this conversation that takes place with Rita Skeeter making her return appearance here in Order of the Phoenix. Hermione, Harry, and guest starring also Luna Lovegood.
Eric: [laughs] Wow!
Micah: She’s kind of hanging out there on the side.
Andrew: Singing “Weasley Is Our King.”
Micah: She’s just a great character.
Eric: Also, everyone has a cocktail. There’s a cherry at the bottom of the glass that they get to…
Andrew: Big episode for drinking.
Micah: Yeah, Hermione is getting sloshed.
Andrew: Trelawney is drinking. Hagrid is drinking.
[Eric laughs]
Laura: Luna is drinking. She has some Gillywater.
Micah: So I wanted to talk about the Daily Prophet‘s role in empowering the Ministry, because it’s just something that unfortunately, I think we see a bit of in today’s society, where there are certain news outlets that maybe aren’t necessarily getting pressured, but are just spewing out false information. But we’ll keep it with Potter for right now. I’m curious, who is it, do we think, that’s applying this pressure to the Daily Prophet? Because Rita alludes to this in their conversation. Do we think the editor-in-chief of the Daily Prophet is getting bribed? Is he getting blackmailed? Or she; I’m not sure who the editor-in-chief is.
Andrew: Yeah, you’re right. Rita alludes to it, and she specifically mentions Fudge. I think, yeah, Fudge could be on the phone a lot with the editor-in-chief of the Daily Prophet, or maybe just had one conversation and be like, “Hey, do not go out and announce that Voldemort is back. Do not believe what you’re hearing from Harry, Dumbledore, and some others. Stick with our line right now that Voldemort is not back, and it might be true, but we don’t have enough evidence yet, and I don’t want to believe it because it would look really bad on me, so please don’t. And I’ll buy you a drink to say thanks.”
[Eric laughs]
Laura: I mean, also I could just see Fudge threatening to limit the Daily Prophet‘s access to certain governmental information if they don’t report on things the way he wants them to.
Andrew: Right, and maybe the editor-in-chief has political aspirations, and Fudge is saying, “Hey, maybe I’ll help you, but you’ve got to do this favor for me.” Could be lots of things at play.
Micah: Or maybe they’re under the Imperius Curse. We’ve seen that used in this book.
Andrew: Yeah. So they can’t do this interview with the Daily Prophet, and Hermione comes up with this idea to have it published in The Quibbler. And if I were Harry, I would probably be concerned. I know desperate times call for desperate measures, but I just would be really embarrassed to have my interview published in this paper. As Rita says, “It’s a joke, as evidenced by this little girl singing next to me and drinking Gillywater.” I just would be very hesitant about this plan. Plus, Rita Skeeter, I think… hopefully most people who read her in the Prophet know that she’s not a very reputable reporter, so you’re reading a joke of a paper and an interview conducted by a joke of a reporter.
Laura: I mean…
Eric: Yeah. There’s still, I think… in spirit, though, it’s designed to be told… Rita at least has name recognition, and I think somebody accredited, somebody who’s got this big of a deal reporter-wise publishing in a lesser-known publication has an air or an aura of truth, of… what do they call it? Verité, of it being kind of… the way that it goes about it just strikes it as being more valid than if it were published on the main Daily Prophet. In fact, the fact that it’s not in the Daily Prophet is what makes it, I think, more believable.
Laura: Well, it then raises the question, why isn’t the Daily Prophet reporting on this? Which comes a little bit later in the next chapter. But I think it’s worth noting that, yeah, The Quibbler is kind of a joke of a paper, but so is the Daily Prophet.
Andrew: [laughs] Yeah, I guess. But less people think that.
Micah: Now, does Rita still write for them?
Andrew: No, it doesn’t…
Laura: I mean, he notes that unemployment does not suit her.
Andrew: Oh, yeah, right.
Laura: So I’m guessing not.
Micah: Oh, true. You’re right. I think that also, once this story is released, this is essentially what a lot of people have been looking for, sort of the counterbalance to everything that the Ministry has been putting out through the Daily Prophet. And I do agree with the fact that Rita… she’s a tabloid writer, right? She has that edginess to her. But I also think there is a level – to Eric’s point – of legitimacy to her, and people do read her and people do believe what she has to say. So to add a level of legitimacy to The Quibbler also, I think, is part of this too. But yeah, I also really love the position that Hermione is putting Rita in here, because if she’s unemployed, to Laura’s point, what else can she do at this point? This is a story that she would love to have. But also, there’s a control factor here too, right? Because she’s going to tell the story like it is.
Eric: Right.
Micah: She’s not going to embellish at all, and to have that stripped away from her, I think, probably bothers her a little bit.
Andrew: Definitely.
Micah: So does writing for The Quibbler, but she can’t do what she’s used to.
Andrew: In terms of what else to do, she could have started her own paper. “The Rita Report,” by Rita.
Eric: [laughs] But I think there’s something brilliant in mind, that this is how Hermione uses the leverage. It took a year. We didn’t know how it was going to happen exactly, but Hermione calls in the leverage here, and this is the blackmail; it’s “I’ll tell the government you’re an unregistered Animagus,” which probably comes with a penalty or a fine or something.
Andrew: Well, Azkaban imprisonment.
Micah: I think Azkaban.
Eric: Oh. Well, there you go.
Andrew: Hermione threatened that.
Eric: Is there that much of a threat now that the Dementors are all gone from Azkaban?
Micah: She could just break out.
Andrew: Rita’s got to be friends with a Dementor to break her out, I guess.
Eric: Yeah, I guess so. So Hermione uses her powers for good, is what I’m trying to say here.
Laura: It’s crazy to me that the sentence for being an unregistered Animagus is Azkaban.
Andrew: It does seem extreme.
Laura: There are so many other worse things that just happen in the day-to-day of the wizarding world that I’m like, “What?”
Andrew: Yeah, like penetrating a child’s mind.
Micah: Yep.
Laura: [laughs] But also, just think about all of the, I mean, security nightmare stuff that happens at Hogwarts. Imagine what it’s like outside of Hogwarts.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: Yeah, true.
Micah: Yep.
Eric: Victoria, who’s listening live, says, “I’d take a positive review in a tabloid over a slanderous one in a top newspaper any day.”
Andrew: That’s true. They’re going to make The Quibbler great again.
Eric: [laughs] It is going back to the point that this is just an alternate viewpoint, and sometimes people need that counter way to… it needs to be a little bit balanced.
Micah: All right, well, that wraps up this chapter. We’ll obviously get into more of this article once it’s finally published and names are named and Umbridge gets riled up.
Andrew: Okay.
Micah: But for now, I think that’s good. There’s a lot that happened in this chapter; I was surprised.
Andrew: It was a busy chapter, for sure. And we’ll talk a little more about it with the Umbridge Suck count and MVP of the Week and Rename the Chapter, but first, it’s time for a word from our second sponsor this week.
[Ad break]
Andrew: Okay, it’s time for the Umbridge Suck count. How many times did she suck this week, Micah?
Micah: She added some numbers to that tally. First off, I upped the suck count one for her throwing shady looks at McGonagall and Dumbledore.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: This is when the news was breaking of the breakout at Azkaban and she’s just looking around, but in particular, she gives these nasty looks towards McGonagall and Dumbledore, who are talking in private at the table.
Andrew: “How dare they speak to each other?”
[“Hem-hem!” Umbridge Suck count sound effect plays]
Micah: Also, for Educational Decree Number 26.
[“Hem-hem!” Umbridge Suck count sound effect plays]
Micah: Think it just goes without saying anytime an Educational Decree comes through.
Eric: Yep.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: That’s plus one automatically.
Andrew: We don’t even have to read it.
Micah: The scarring of the back of Lee Jordan’s hand. We touched on this earlier, but Lee calls Umbridge out on her own Educational Decree, and Harry later sees him holding the back of his hand, so she’s at it again with her scarring.
[“Hem-hem!” Umbridge Suck count sound effect plays]
Andrew: They need a special club at Hogwarts just for all of her victims. And it surprises me that Lee Jordan doesn’t go and report this either. Nobody wants to talk about it to a higher authority, and I really think if a teacher found out, they would do something about this, because this is terrible.
Micah: Yep. And one more for making Trelawney and Hagrid uncomfortable in both of their classrooms and really just disrupting the overall flow of school at Hogwarts.
[“Hem-hem!” Umbridge Suck count sound effect plays]
Andrew: All right, so the new total is 56.
MVP of the Week
Andrew: And it’s time now for MVP of the Week.
[MVP of the Week music plays]
Andrew: I’m going to give mine to Rita – yes, Rita Skeeter – for coping with the embarrassment she must feel to have to work for these brats! How terrible! Poor Rita.
[Eric laughs]
Micah: Blackmail.
Eric: I’m going to give it to Hermione for putting Rita to good use, and to Luna for taking the jabs that Rita gives her in stride.
Micah: I was going to give it to Neville for the way he responded to the article in the Daily Prophet, but I’m actually going to pivot and give it to Roger Davies for having one hell of a Valentine’s Day that Harry didn’t.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Laura: He knows how to get it done.
Micah: He was thirsty.
Laura: [laughs] I’m going to give mine to Luna and Xenophilius Lovegood for committing to getting the truth out.
Andrew: Polar opposite answers, Roger Davies and Luna and Xenophilius.
[Eric laughs]
Rename the Chapter
Andrew: Okay, now let’s rename the chapter. Order the Phoenix Chapter 25, “You Beetle Believe It!”
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: “I have to write for The Quibbler?” Yes you beetle believe it.
Eric: I really enjoyed Rita’s name for Hermione, so I named the chapter Order of the Phoenix Chapter 25, “Little Miss Perfect.”
Micah: [laughs] I went with Order of the Phoenix Chapter 25, “Check, table one.”
[Everyone laughs]
Laura: And I went with Order of the Phoenix Chapter 25, “Harry’s Galentine’s Day.”
Eric: Aww.
Andrew: Cute. If you have any feedback about today’s discussion, we would love to hear it; send it on in to MuggleCast@gmail.com, or record a voice memo and send it to MuggleCast@gmail.com. We also have the contact form on MuggleCast.com, or tweet us, Instagram us, Facebook us. We are MuggleCast on all three of those platforms. And by the way, happy birthday to our social media manager, Jule, who is turning some age today, the day we’re recording, Saturday, April 18th.
Eric: Happy Birthday, Jule.
Laura: Happy Birthday!
Micah: Happy Birthday.
Andrew: Happy, Happy Birthday!
Micah: Hashtag Happy Birthday.
Andrew: [laughs] Is that a popular hashtag? Happy Birthday?
Micah: HBD.
Quizzitch
Andrew: It’s time now for Quizzitch.
[Quizzitch music plays]
Eric: Yes, last week’s question: What does Hagrid instruct Harry to put on the salamanders at Hogwarts? This answer is chili powder. Chili powder, so they’re a little extra spicy. People who submitted the correct answer to us over on Twitter include LazTatus, Meg Scott, MatthewTwoBeers, LessThanStace, Jason King, A Man, I Miss Sports, and Caleb McReynolds.
Andrew: Micah misses sports too.
Micah: Yeah.
Andrew: Nobody else, though.
Micah: I think we all do.
Eric: I miss baseball, but only baseball.
Andrew: Oh, okay. I miss Quidditch.
Eric: [laughs] Anyway, next week’s question: What topic does Xenophilius tell Luna that Harry’s story is outselling?
Andrew: Okay.
Micah: Can only imagine.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: Thank you, everybody, for listening to today’s episode. We would love if you joined our community at Patreon.com/MuggleCast. By doing so, you’ll be helping this podcast grow, and to thank you, you will receive some magical benefits in return, including a personalized “Thank you” message from one of the four of us on video, our twice monthly bonus MuggleCast installments, the ability to listen live as we record each new episode, and a whole lot more. There’s four years of stuff for you to dig through now, all at Patreon.com/MuggleCast. And it feels so good to receive your support, so thank you, thank you, thank you. And I should be getting samples of our physical benefit in the next couple days, and I think after that, we will hopefully be ready to announce it, so stay tuned for some news about this year’s physical gift. All right, I think that does it for this week’s episode of MuggleCast. Thank you, everybody, for listening. I’m Andrew.
Eric: I’m Eric.
Micah: I’m Micah.
Laura: And I’m Laura.
Andrew: Goodbye!
Eric, Laura, and Micah: Bye.