Transcript for MuggleCast Episode #700, Kierra Lewis Returns, and MuggleMail (Are We Too Hard on Draco?)
Show Intro
[Show music plays]
Andrew Sims: Welcome to MuggleCast, your weekly ride into the world of Harry Potter for 700 episodes and counting. We are your Harry Potter friends, talking about the books, the movies, and the forthcoming Harry Potter TV show, so make sure you follow the show in your favorite podcast app so you never miss an episode. Micah, Laura, Eric, congrats! 700 episodes! Wow.
Laura Tee: Yeah, congrats to you!
Eric Scull: We’re so old.
Andrew: A couple of us brought a celebratory drink today. I think Micah has a shot.
Eric: Ooh.
Andrew: I am just going to have a beer today. Hold on; let me crack this open. Let’s see here.
Laura: I have a La Croix. [laughs]
Eric: I have a Kirkland sparkling water.
Andrew: Ah, wonderful. Is there a shot in that? I’m kidding.
Eric: Yeah, I plead the fifth on that.
Andrew: But Eric did bring balloons.
Eric: I got balloons!
Andrew: And you’re wearing a suit as well.
Eric: Oh, of course; I had to dress up. They say, “Congrats,” the balloons do.
Andrew: [laughs] To yourself.
[Micah laughs]
Eric: Congrats, guys. Yeah, I bought them for us, really.
Andrew: All right. Well, can you all believe it? 700 episodes. I don’t even know what to say. We never thought it’d last this long.
Eric: Certainly that’s true. What’s the next big milestone? I guess 777.
Andrew: Save the balloons for a year and a half from now.
[Eric laughs]
Laura: I was about to say, that’s right around the corner, relatively speaking.
Eric: They’ll be upside down because we’ll have to hang them from the ceiling.
Andrew: But it is amazing we can do 700 episodes podcasting about Harry Potter, and we still have new Harry Potter content to look forward to. Of course, we’re very excited for the Harry Potter TV show. The Wizarding World continues to expand. I still get asked, “What do you all podcast about?” I’m like, “Uh, we’re going Chapter by Chapter through the books. Duh. There’s a lot to talk about. Hello.”
Micah: Do you say it just like that?
Laura: And I also love reminding people that a TV show is coming right around the corner, so if they think we don’t have enough to talk about now – which they’re totally wrong about – they would have to acknowledge that there’s going to be plenty to talk about for about the next decade once the show comes out.
Eric: Oof.
Andrew: And if you listen to one episode of this podcast, you know we have a lot to talk about. [laughs]
Eric: We’re passionate! I’ve got to say, 700 episodes; every one I’ve been a part of has been fun.
Andrew: Eh… I’m kidding.
Laura: Not the one that you lost your audio.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: That was decidedly not… well, which one? The first one was probably pretty good. The second one, I was a little peeved. Yeah, I had to rerecord.
Micah: But what I really love about putting together these episodes is that we get to hear directly from our listeners, so there’s probably no better way to celebrate 700 episodes than by doing a mailbag episode, because we get to hear feedback and get questions, and I think that’s always what has made this show so much fun to do, is answering the questions, theorizing, hearing from listeners, incorporating them into the conversation.
Eric: That’s been in our DNA ever since I think the first voicemail on Episode 2 of the show. We really, really, really… early on, people were Skyping in with their voicemails for us; it was just absolutely amazing to hear. But we were as passionate as they were, and we just loved the new theories.
Andrew: And MuggleNet was always a community-driven place for Harry Potter fans as well; not just the forums, but we had a comments section on every news post. And I was looking back at the original MuggleCast post on MuggleNet.com a couple weeks ago. There was hundreds of comments on the MuggleCast announcement post; I was like, “Wow, people were excited.”
Eric: The first ten of them were “First! First! Second, second, fourth, eighth…”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Micah: “Seventh.”
Eric: Remember how they used to do that?
Andrew: Yeah. And we’re excited that we have a guest on today; we’re going to be joined by Kierra Lewis in a few minutes. And I think it’s fitting we’re going to have her on today, because we’ve been in the world of Harry Potter for 20 plus years now; Kierra has only been in the world of Harry Potter for about a year, and yet she has been as moved by the Harry Potter series over the course of the last year, just like we were 20 plus years ago. So I think it just speaks to the timelessness of Harry Potter.
Eric: We had her on about a year ago for Episode 649 for the first time, so pretty cool to check back in with her now that she’s completed her read-through of the series.
Interview with Kierra Lewis
Andrew: Well, actually, why don’t we just jump right into the interview with Kierra today to kick things off?
Eric: Let’s do it.
Andrew: We are now joined by Kierra Lewis! Welcome back to MuggleCast, Kierra.
Kierra Lewis: What’s going on, everybody?
Andrew: It’s great to have you back, and for anybody who doesn’t know – but I hope everyone has, because it’s been an awesome experience – you have been documenting reading the Harry Potter series for the first time on your social media channels, and you just finished a few weeks ago?
Kierra: Finally! Yeah, it was a journey, for sure.
Andrew: [laughs] It was fascinating.
Eric: Here, I got you some balloons!
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: Well, first of all, I have to say I think I speak for all of us, and then everybody watching: Every time I saw one of your videos come up, I was so excited to see what you were going through. I know it was painful, but it was a joy for us to watch.
Laura: Oh, yeah.
Kierra: Emotions all over, for sure.
Andrew: Yeah. Do you feel relieved to have finished? And what feelings are you experiencing?
Kierra: Well, I finally started processing my emotions a couple days ago, because right after I finished the book, I had to catch a plane to go to the Wizarding World in Universal. So I was wanting to cry, but I was like, “No, I know cousin Harry would want me to be joyful there.” But the emotions finishing the book… honestly, I’m not even relieved. I kind of just want to jump back into the story.
Eric: Aww.
[Andrew laughs]
Kierra: If anything, it’s depressing me. Being in the story, but now I’ve got to face the real world, so I’m missing the Harry Potter world for sure.
Eric: You can always do a reread. That’s what we’ve learned in our many years.
Kierra: I’m saving it for the TV series.
Eric: Fair enough.
Kierra: I want to reread it right beforehand so my memory will be fresh.
Eric: That sounds good. Now, this is an easy question, but at the same time, we have to ask it: What’s your favorite book from the Harry Potter series?
Kierra: Oh, I was just thinking about this earlier today. So it’s kind of a tie between Half-Blood Prince and Goblet of Fire, just because… I know, some people it’s not their favorite. But Goblet of Fire, I like it just because I got to see them be kids, the Triwizard cup… and then Half-Blood Prince, even from the first chapter, I feel like the author just had me so engulfed in the story, finding out about the Ministry of Magic, all the backstory of Baldy Voldy, and yeah, those are my top books.
[Micah laughs]
Eric: No, those are great answers. There’s no wrong answers, by the way, when we ask that, too, so it’s always very satisfying.
Kierra: Okay. The only wrong answer is Chamber of Secrets. That book is…
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Why does everyone dislike that book? Oh my God.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Kierra: It never does it for me. I’m not even… yeah, it’s still good, but that’s my least, least, least favorite.
Andrew: Okay, that’s fair. I mean, everybody’s got to have a least favorite, right?
Eric: I guess that’s true.
Andrew: So if that’s yours, fine.
Micah: Well, you mentioned Half-Blood Prince being one of your favorites, so I’m curious, how has your perspective on certain characters like Snape or maybe Dumbledore changed throughout the course of the series? I know there’s been a lot of emotion along the way.
Kierra: Yeah, I would say for Dumbledore… I’m still pro-Dumbledore, but in the beginning, I did see him… I feel like there’s certain people in your life, whether it be your parents or your grandparents, where you just see them as just this god-given just “I can’t do any wrong” type of person, but in then hearing about his backstory, it did break my heart a little bit. But I am understanding, in a sense of “Your past is one thing,” but how he died, he died, I feel like, for the greater good for everybody else. He had Harry’s intentions in mind with everything. So yeah, I don’t resent him. I just, if anything, see him more as a human. We’re eye to eye now. And then Snape, oh my God, it was a roller coaster with Snape. One minute I hate him; the next chapter, I love him again. I would say he’s one of those as well, where you think you hate him, but you find out his reasons for everything, and you just… at least, I can’t help but to be compassionate and loving towards him for sure, which I know is an unpopular opinion. A lot of people hate my boy Snape; that’s okay.
Laura: Yeah, I think that’s a fair approach to take. There’s a lot of nuance in this series, right? And so it does force you to hold multiple truths and be able to accept them. But with some of the tougher moments of the series in mind, there were some moments when you were reading where you were ready to stop the Harry Potter series altogether, so I’m wondering, did the series ultimately give you what you wanted, and are you glad that you actually stuck it out and finished?
Kierra: Oh, it gave me way more than I wanted and expected.
Laura: Yay!
Kierra: Way more. Like I said, I thought it was just going to be a lighthearted series, and I mean, whether it reflected me and my life stories with my family, or just the current world that we’re in right now, I just feel like it was just… honestly, the story is just so powerful, and it’s very timeless. And then your second question… oh, I’m so glad I didn’t stop, 100%. I think people had to remind me that this was a story and the last book was about war, so there was going to be a lot of devastation, of death, and of course, it hurt me. I had to take days off from it. But getting to the end, it was so worth it, just seeing my cousin come out on top.
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: Heck yeah.
Kierra: It made it all worth it for sure.
Eric: Aw.
Micah: You mentioned earlier that you were at the theme park recently. I’m curious, what was that experience like for you coming off of just having finished the books? And I’ll ask a followup question: I saw you rode Hagrid’s Magical Creatures Motorbike Adventure, and I thought you had a great line, now you know why Harry doesn’t like riding with Hagrid.
[Everyone laughs]
Micah: Did you ride in the motorbike or the sidecar?
Kierra: So I rode in the motorbike, so I was Hagrid.
Micah: Me too, me too, okay.
Kierra: And I know there’s a different experience for both, but one was enough for me. I’m not a big roller coaster fan.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: Me too, 100%.
Kierra: I was like, “If Hagrid was driving, no wonder cousin Harry was not a fan of it.” But it was amazing. Honestly, I feel like they got… I don’t know if they replicated the studios or whatever, but I feel like they just got the entire wizarding world and just plopped it in Universal Studios, from the butterbeer to whether I was riding the rides or going into the wand stores. Ollivander, his shopping store… the whole experience was amazing, so yeah, I loved it.
Andrew: Yeah. Well, now that you’ve finished the books and you’ve experienced the theme park, what else are you most excited for in the wizarding world? Are you going to explore the other books, like the Fantastic Beasts or the TV show? What are you most looking forward to?
Kierra: Oh, I mean, there’s… so I’m excited for tomorrow; I’m going to see Cursed Child play.
Andrew: [gasps] Oooh.
Kierra: And I’m meeting the cast, so that’s exciting.
Laura: Oh, that’s awesome!
Micah: Nice.
Kierra: I know; I feel like… and I hadn’t read the script.
Andrew: The script book, yeah.
Andrew: So I’m going in blind, so I just really…
Kierra: Perfect.
Kierra: Yeah, that’s what everyone tells me, so I’m excited for that.
[Micah laughs]
Kierra: I still need to watch the last three movies, so I want to do that. And possibly… I’ve debated; I need to see more about Fantastic Beasts, but I know people would love to see that from me too. Yeah, that, and hopefully go to the London studios, maybe this fall for my birthday.
Andrew: Okay, cool. Well, you mentioned rereading possibly before the TV show starts airing. Is there any scene or one book in particular you’re looking forward to being adapted for the TV show?
Kierra: Ohh, okay. Let me think about that. I know for sure we’ve got to have my boy Peeves. I want to see Peeves, and I want to see SPEW. We need to… Hermione needs to have her group there.
Andrew and Laura: Yes.
Kierra: So those two. But as far as books to shows, probably… because I haven’t seen Half-Blood, so I can’t say that. I would honestly say probably Goblet, because that was my favorite book, but when I watched the movie… not that it was bad, but I was kind of let down, because I feel like so many scenes were missing from it, which… understandably; it was a movie, and they couldn’t put all the scenes in there.
Andrew: But that is the beauty of the TV show; they’ll be able to fit everything. They’re really not going to have an excuse. [laughs]
Eric: There’s no excuse!
Kierra: I’m pro-TV show. I know some people are like, “We got the movies, we got the movies,” but now they got more time to get the details of the things they weren’t able to get in the movies. So I’m pro-TV series.
Andrew: We wholeheartedly agree with you here.
Laura: Yeah, give us the Winky subplot.
Kierra: Yeah, oh my God!
Laura: I missed that so much in the movie.
Eric: So Kierra, have you dabbled in any fanfiction that people have written?
Kierra: [laughs] Not yet. I’m trying to process Harry Potter, but I do have a couple of… like “All the Young Dudes.”
Eric: Yeah, yeah!
Kierra: Okay, so I’ve heard good things about that. People want me to get into that.
Eric: Oh, yeah, that one’s good. Depending on what era you want to read about, what characters, there’s so much that’s been… over the years has been very good.
Kierra: That’s what I’ve heard. So that, and Dramione, but I don’t know. I’m so pro-Ron and Hermione; I don’t know if I can handle anything that’s not them right now.
Eric: Well, give yourself the time and the space to kind of separate it all out in your head and then dive in for fun, for sure, would be my recommendation.
Kierra: Hello.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: Laura, do you have any recommendations? Laura used to run or help run the fanfiction section of MuggleNet.com way back in the day.
Laura: Yeah, a million years ago, it feels like. But honestly, “All the Young Dudes” is probably the first one that I would recommend to you, and it sounds like you already got that one on lock. It is so, so good. There is a really popular Dramione fanfiction called “Manacled,” but I will say that one is very dark, and I don’t know. I don’t know if it really… if you’re looking for a romance story, I don’t think that’s the story, but it is very well written. It’s just kind of tough to read.
Eric: Then there are ones that you can read just for fun, like “My Immortal” as well.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: Which is early…
Kierra: What is “My Immortal”?
Eric: “My Immortal,” early classic. If it evokes the song from Evanescence, it’s just like that. It stars Ebony Dark’ness Dementia Raven Way, a transfer student from the US who’s into Snape and the Dark Lord.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: And it’s written like an early 2000s Tumblr post went crazy.
Kierra: Oh, I love this! Wait, what’s it called?
Eric: “My Immortal.”
Kierra: Okay, I’m going to have to check that one out. Anything with Snape, I’m a fan of. Hello.
Andrew: Well, and any two characters that you’ve imagined pairing, somebody else has definitely come up with a fanfiction for. I think one that Laura cites quite a bit… Laura, you’ve jokingly referenced the very real McGonagall/Giant Squid fanfictions? Do I have that right?
Kierra: Oh, y’all getting creative now.
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: Yeah, somebody submitted one of those, and it was too graphic to go on MuggleNet fanfiction…
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: … so it was rejected because that was a family website. But yeah, people….
Kierra: BookTok would eat something like that up, because they love…
Laura: Totally.
[Kierra and Laura laugh]
Eric: Oh, yeah.
Micah: We know that you read with so much passion; you react with so much passion. Were there any noise complaints as you were reading through the Harry Potter series?
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Micah: And if so, how many?
Kierra: I hate to be a disappointment, but I’ve gotten zero.
Micah: Wow.
Andrew: That’s great.
Kierra: Now, I don’t know if it’s because either my neighbors could be working, because most of the time I read during the day…
Eric: Oooh.
Kierra: … or I like to think that just our walls are thick too.
[Eric laughs]
Kierra: Which is a saving grace, because yeah, without that, I think I probably would have gotten a hundred or so, or I would have been living someplace else.
Micah: Or they could just be supportive.
Andrew and Laura: Yeah.
Kierra: I will say, when I lived in Nashville, while I was reading the Harry Potter series, my neighbors… I didn’t tell them that I did BookTok, but one day they just saw me out, and I guess I just popped up on her “For you” page, so she found out I was doing book-related videos, and she said that she could hear me, but she would just laugh about it. So I did have a situation where she was cool with it and understood, but yeah, in this case we’re good so far, but knock on wood.
Eric: Man, that’s it. Everyone on your block just supported you the whole way through.
Andrew: Yeah, yeah. I’m sure you saw this, Kierra, but there was a great TikTok of somebody pretending to be your neighbor listening.
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: It was just your audio in the TikTok. It was so funny. Well, Kierra, those are our questions for you. Thank you so much for coming on. Congrats again on finishing the series and all your success, and we can’t wait to see what you read next. I’m sure everybody’s so excited to continue following your reading journey.
Kierra: Hello. Well, thank y’all for having me! Y’all are my cousins from miles and miles away.
Andrew: Aww, we love you too. What are you reading now? Or what’s next?
Kierra: So next is Hunger Games. I am taking a break; I was going to start it this week, but think I just need to get my mind clear before I go into this emotional journey. But yeah, haven’t seen the movies; haven’t read the books, along with staying with Harry Potter, so I’m excited for it. And I hear the newest book is good.
Eric: We loved it.
Andrew: It is, yeah. A few of us have finished it already, and yeah, we love it.
Kierra: Did y’all cry?
Andrew: I was getting emotional.
Kierra: Okay.
Andrew: I didn’t cry, but I was getting emotional, yeah. Well, listeners, Kierra is @KierraLewis75 on TikTok, and then on Instagram, @Kierra_Lewis1. Anything else you want to plug?
Kierra: I think it’s just those two, Instagram and TikTok, yeah.
Andrew: Awesome. Well, thank you again, Kierra, so much for joining us.
Kierra: Thank y’all for having me.
Andrew: All right, that was a lot of fun having Kierra on the podcast. Listeners, make sure you check her out on social media; we’ll have links to all of her channels in the show notes. Also, a special announcement: Since this is Episode 700, we are excited to announce the remaining inventory of our MuggleCast “19 Years Later” T-shirts – which I am wearing today – are now available in the overstock store. All sizes are currently available. If you’re a patron in the US, you also have access to free shipping; we dropped a promo code to access that free shipping in the Patreon chat, so make sure you check that out. These T-shirts are only available while supplies last, and this is a great way to celebrate this milestone episode of MuggleCast. Also, we would really appreciate your support on Patreon. Patreon.com/MuggleCast is where you can pledge, and you’ll get instant access to dozens – actually, over 100 – bonus MuggleCast episodes. You’ll also get access to ad-free episodes, a new physical gift every year, the chance to cohost the show one day, and a lot more, so please check that out as well. Support on Patreon is the only reason why we have reached 20 years and 700 episodes, so special thank you to our patrons today for getting us to this milestone.
Eric: Absolutely.
Game: Who Said It?
Andrew: Well, we have more fun today. Micah, you put together a game for us, right?
Micah: Yeah, I figured it would be a lot of fun to reflect back on some prior episodes of MuggleCast, and what better way to do that than to see if we can all recall who said it, right?
Eric: Ahh.
Micah: There’s been some iconic moments in MuggleCast history. Some of them may be included here; some of them may not. But are you up for playing a little bit of a game?
Andrew: I’m scared, but yeah.
Micah: So I’m going to put a softball out there to start. This one I feel like most people should be able to get, okay?
Andrew and Laura: Okay.
Micah: “I got the deal you need, Andy. Check this out: Transfer your domain to GoDaddy for as little as $6.99, and get a free one-year extension, plus guaranteed renewal pricing.”
Andrew: [laughs] That’s our old ad guy, Mason. Is that who that is?
Micah: Laura? Eric? You agree?
Eric: I concur with Andrew.
Laura: Yep. Lock it in.
Micah: All right. Yes, that was indeed Mason.
Eric: Oh, man.
Laura: Final answer.
Andrew: [laughs] Okay. I wasn’t expecting him to be a question today.
[Eric laughs]
Laura: Hey, but that’s a really good test question, right?
Andrew: Yes.
Micah: All right, you ready for the next one?
Eric: Absolutely.
Laura: Yep.
Micah: “The audio quality was bad. The content was bad. It was poorly planned. But hey, you live, you learn.”
Andrew: I’m going to say me.
Laura: That sounds like Andrew.
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: I think the hint is “You live, you learn,” because that’s not a saying I would utter, but yeah, I’d go with Andrew.
Micah: Final answers?
Eric: I mean, he said sounds like him, so I’m going to guess that.
Andrew: Right. [laughs]
Micah: You are all incorrect.
[Andrew and Laura gasp]
Micah: This was said by Ben on Episode 50 of MuggleCast.
Andrew and Eric: Oooh.
Laura: Snap.
Eric: 50!
Micah: He was referring to the first episode ever recorded.
Eric: I love how…
Laura: Okay, well, that’s a little harsh. Teenagers, you know?
Eric: Yeah, well, each milestone that grants us the opportunity for reflection is a gift, so I like that even on Episode 50, we were like, “We’ve improved so much since then.” Because if we stuck to that, by 700 we’d be pretty good.
Micah: The next one: “When Dumbledore’s eyes twinkle brightly behind his spectacles, you had better be glad he’s wearing his glasses, otherwise the brightness of that twinkle would burn a hole right through you.”
Laura: Is that Jamie?
Andrew: I think that’s Eric.
Eric: Maybe Jamie?
Micah: Got one Eric? Two Jamies and one Eric. The correct answer is Jamie. These were Dumbledore Norris facts. Do you remember these?
[Everyone laughs]
Laura: Yeah, yeah.
Eric: Some of them were ripped straight from the early Internet’s repository of Chris Norris facts with slight changes, like, “Underneath Dumbledore’s massive beard is not a chin, it’s another fist.”
Laura: Fist, yeah, exactly.
[Eric laughs]
Micah: This was a very popular segment early on in MuggleCast history.
Eric: Oh, I love that, Micah. Thank you for that.
Micah: This was from Episode 55. Our next quote, I will preface it by saying, Laura, you said to this person, “I was actually hired to work on MuggleNet on Halloween, so this Halloween is going to be my two-year anniversary,” to which this person said, “That was a sad day in MuggleNet history.”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Laura: That was Ben.
Eric: I’d say nobody heckled Laura like Ben heckled Laura.
Andrew and Laura: Yeah.
Andrew: I agree with that.
Micah: You are all incorrect. That was Kevin.
Laura: What?!
Eric: Whoa, it was Kevin!
Laura: Yeah, well, okay. Well, that’s different. He just liked to needle everybody. That’s fine; he didn’t mean it.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: You got some rare Kevin needling. That was very satisfying.
[Laura laughs]
Micah: That was Episode 70 of MuggleCast, so I had to go back a little bit. I wanted to go as far away… I didn’t want anything too recent for this game show. Next up: “Why would you create a theme park? The countless hundreds of millions of dollars spent on a theme park for a character who’s going to die?”
Andrew: [laughs] What?
Laura: Oh, gosh. I don’t…
Micah: I think the thought was we were still theorizing at this time about what was going to happen, and this comment was, “Why would you create a theme park for a character that’s going to die?”
Eric: This is hilarious.
Laura: I actually feel really stumped by this one.
Andrew: Jamie.
Eric: Was it Ben?
Micah: Laura?
Laura: Was it Micah? Micah, was it you?
Micah: It was me.
Andrew and Eric: Ohhh!
Laura: Damn!
Andrew: I was just thinking, we need a Micah answer. [laughs]
Eric: It was funny then, and it’s funny now, man.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: That is a good… I do remember kind of thinking at the time, “It’s going to be sad going through the theme park if Harry is no longer alive, or Ron or Hermione,” but eh, we learned to live to enjoy the park while Dumbledore is dead.
Micah: That was Episode 95.
Eric: Wow.
Andrew: Okay.
Micah: “We should have a new segment called homework or something where we assign the listeners homework to go and find the things that we talked about 50 episodes ago and remind us so that we know.”
Laura: Eric.
Eric: [laughs] I quote about being forgetful; it goes straight to me. You know what? I’ll probably agree with that. Was it me?
Andrew: I’ll guess myself.
Micah: The correct answer is Laura.
Laura: Oh, damn it.
Micah: Episode 150.
Laura: So I’m the asshole. Okay.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: We’re like, 0 for 8 on these. I love it.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: I love that they’re funny and challenging at the same time to go back. But it’s worth shouting out, we’ve had several listeners throughout the years bring us their findings from… they’ll listen and they’ll be like, “I thought it would be fun, you guys, to compile all the predictions you ever made,” or we’ve asked our listeners in the past to help us tally who was on each episode, which we’ve touted those stats on previous hundred episodes. We don’t have them for today. But our listeners have been a very invaluable resource. We love and have always been very touched that they engage with the show, but then also have allowed us to continue celebrating the show throughout the years.
Micah: Well, hopefully you enjoy this next one. “Let’s move on to Chapter by Chapter. This week, we’re talking about the penultimate chapter. You guys like that word? ‘Penultimate’?”
Andrew: That has to be me.
Laura: Really?
Andrew: I love the word penultimate. [laughs]
Laura: Do you? Okay, because also I’m thinking this could be Eric, maybe?
Eric: I feel like either I read it in a transcript recently, or I remember vaguely 20-ish, 18-ish years ago geeking out about “penultimate.” I’m going to say it’s me, but I think – correct me if I’m wrong, Micah – no matter who said it, that might be the title of that episode.
Micah: “Penultimate.” I don’t know offhand, but we can check, because it was on Episode 151. And it was Andrew.
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: Oh, dang.
Eric: Okay.
Laura: I suck at this game.
Eric: We each take turns, really… no, Episode 151’s title is “Google, Define: Goat.”
Andrew: [laughs] I do think you’re right, though, Eric; I vaguely remember an episode being titled “Penultimate.”
Micah: Probably.
Laura: I remember that too.
Micah: Well, Eric very much likes the word “titular.” That comes up quite a bit.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: “Titular.” I also… one of the first things we sourced our listeners on – it was maybe Episode 6 or so – I said, “You hear about primary and secondary a lot, but what comes after primary and secondary?” And they wrote in and they were like, “It’s tertiary.” That was the first word I learned since starting MuggleCast.
Andrew: Oh, wow.
Micah: All right, a couple more here before we wrap up this game. Next one: “I was in the right place at the right time because I just moved back to London. If I moved back six months later, someone else might have gotten it.”
Andrew: Well, this is Jamie, you would think. [laughs]
Laura: I mean, process of elimination here…
Andrew: Who moved to…? Wait, Elysa? Wasn’t…? I mean, she was in Oxford.
Laura: Yeah, but the quote says, “I moved back to London.”
Andrew: Did Jamie ever live in London?
Laura: I thought so.
Eric: But it’s about “wouldn’t have gotten it,” so I wonder if it’s a role that was… like, this is somebody we interviewed.
Andrew: Ohhh! Evanna Lynch. Is this Evanna Lynch? [laughs]
Eric: Could be. I’m going to guess Evanna.
Micah: Laura?
Laura: I’ll go with Evanna.
Micah: Unfortunately, you are all wrong. This is David Heyman.
Andrew: Ohh! All right.
Micah: Can you imagine if he never got it?
Eric: No, I could not. The “What if?” on that is too depressing to contemplate.
Andrew: That is a good trick question, though, because we gravitated towards the hosts.
Micah: And that was Episode 200 of MuggleCast, “Accept Defeat.”
Eric: “Admit Defeat.”
Micah: “Admit Defeat,” yes. I was going to use that one, but Eric, I figured that was too easy for you to guess.
Eric: Yeah, we know that one.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: For folks who don’t know, David Heyman played the Dueling Club with us back on episode 200 of MuggleCast.
Eric: He got pretty excited. Yeah, he got pretty into it.
Micah: All right, last one, and I figured that this is an appropriate way to wrap up this game: “I think Harry is a lover, not a fighter.”
Laura: Okay, this has to be Eric.
Eric: I don’t think there’s been one for me, which is nice. You really kept the word count down.
Andrew: Oh, okay. [laughs] “Kept the word count down.”
[Laura laughs]
Micah: Yeah, if I just ran on for five minutes, we would know.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: No, no, I’m glad none of my quotes are here; they would have been too long.
Andrew: Oh, stop, stop.
Eric: Especially back then. I had no filter. I’m going to guess me only because I haven’t been, but I think it might sound more like something Ben might say.
Andrew: Eh, I’ll go with Eric too.
Micah: Laura?
Laura: Oh, Eric, for sure.
Micah: You are all right, so the perfect way to end this fun segment. And thanks to Meg and all the transcribers over the years, because without them, I would not have been able to go back and cull all these segments.
Andrew: Including you, Micah!
Micah: Yeah, way back in the day.
Eric: Yeah, you were the first transcriber for MuggleCast.
Micah: I was.
Eric: What episode was that last quote from?
Micah: 19.
Eric: Yeah, that was a great segment. I think that solidifies it, that we don’t know what the heck we said, or who said what.
Micah: Oh, how is that even…? Yeah, it’s impossible for us to remember everything that we’ve said over the years.
Eric: [laughs] But we had fun doing it, I think.
Listener Feedback
Andrew: Well, it’s time for the mailbag portion of today’s episode. First of all, Micah, 700 episodes. We said we were each having a drink today; we should tell our audience what we’re actually drinking. What’s the shot you’ve been sipping on?
Micah: A little bit of Bourbon.
Andrew: Oooh, fancy. I’m drinking a lager, but it’s not a basic lager; it’s one in partnership with Patagonia, the hiking gear company.
Laura: Okay.
Andrew: It’s called a Kernzer lager. “Bright, crisp, and wildly drinkable.” So yeah, that’s what we’re having, for anybody wondering.
Eric: Love that. And as said before, I have the Kirkland lime sparkling water.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Micah: Beautiful.
Andrew: I do love those.
Eric: These are great.
Andrew: That’s what I’m normally drinking while recording MuggleCast.
Eric: Oh, yeah.
Andrew: Well, to kick off the mailbag portion of today’s episode, we have a voicemail from one of our listeners.
[Voicemail plays]
“Hey MuggleCast, this is Karen, and I am a Hufflepuff. And I have read the series many times, but on this reread, I found myself thinking about the individualistic nature of the ways that Harry and Hermione tried to resist Umbridge early in Order of the Phoenix, with Harry and Hermione both doing some version of just speaking up alone and then getting punished. And on this reread, I was wondering what impact more collective actions like some of those I’ve taken as an active member of my graduate student union might have had on Umbridge, on Hogwarts, or maybe even the Ministry. So for example, what would have happened if Hogwarts students had written an op-ed in the Daily Prophet or another media outlet about how they weren’t learning anything useful? Would the public have rallied behind them? Or how would the Ministry have responded if students had their parents sign and/or circulate a petition? What if students went on strike from the DADA lessons until they learned something practical? I would imagine, or at least hope, that Umbridge doesn’t have dozens of blood torture quills, so it would have put pressure on her in a different way, because she couldn’t give detention to everybody all at the same time. I’m also thinking that these kind of actions might have been somewhat familiar to Hogwarts students, given that industry-wide strikes are far more common in Europe than they are in the US. Anyway, thanks for listening, and I would love to hear if y’all have other ideas about what kinds of collective actions the students could have taken in response to Umbridge’s educational malpractice and physical abuse. Thanks for all you do.”
[Voicemail ends]
Andrew: Great question. I do think the Ministry would have tried to spin what the students were saying somehow. They wouldn’t just put their hands up and be like, “You got us!”
Eric: Yeah, it’s questionable if the Daily Prophet would have published that op-ed.
Andrew: That too, yeah. Could be published elsewhere, though. Quibbler?
Eric: Quibbler would have been an option, yep, absolutely, which Harry ends up using. I like all of these suggestions, and I’m wondering if… really, sitting out of the DADA lessons, she can try and pass an Educational Decree that’s going to punish students for not showing up, but is she really going to put everyone in detention? Just like Karen said. So I really love these ideas. I don’t know that I have any to add.
Andrew and Laura: Yeah.
Eric: But the time to act is always sooner than later, before Umbridge got complete and full control of the school by passing all the degrees she needed to to get control of the teachers and all of that. The real time for all the students to oppose her was… part of the reason it’s so insidious what she did is it’s a slow, gradual move to totalitarianism, and they weren’t ready to resist or fight back. Very few people even agreed that she was there for any untoward reasons, because so few people agreed Voldemort was back! So it was a whole thing.
Andrew: All right, well, let’s move on to some emails now.
Micah: First one comes from TJ, talking about us being too hard on Draco.
Andrew: What?!
Micah: [laughs] TJ said,
“Hey MuggleCast! Never thought I would say this, but I think you’re being a little too hard on Draco during the Order of the Phoenix reread. Maybe it’s because I’ve been listening to your Half-Blood Prince Chapter by Chapter recently, but Year 5 is really the last ‘good’ year Draco will have in the series! After this, he’s forced to kill Dumbledore and is terrorized by the Dark Lord in his own home. Cut Draco some slack and appreciate the fun times this 15-year-old boy has with his friends this year, as those are the last laughs he’ll have in a while.”
Andrew: [laughs] Well, but he doesn’t know that this is his last good year, so…
Eric: And the kind of laughs Draco has are by bringing misery to others. I actually… I don’t want to be controversial; I would say we are not going too hard on Draco. I would say that his privilege has brought him to a place where he does not have to live with any of the consequences of his actions, and that some of the events of the later books, while harrowing for him, do him some good, and his character some good.
Micah: TJ goes on to say,
“On a slightly related note, I can’t wait for you to get to the Deathly Hallows Chapter by Chapter! I’ve gone all the way back to Episode 121 to start the only Deathly Hallows Chapter by Chapter you guys have done, and oh boy, did I forget how different things were. From hearing Andrew and Matt learn about what Twilight is from Laura (and me having flashbacks to listening to Imprint), to Andrew reading a Facebook message he got from a listener offering him ‘wacky tobaccy’…”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
“… and yelling about only having two cohosts on because Laura was studying for finals and Eric was in New Zealand… but at least Micah was excited to say his name second when you all introduce yourselves because of it. I love how unhinged it all was and kinda wish we had some more unhinged MuggleCast energy back in our lives. Keep up the amazing work!”
Andrew: TJ, how can we create an unhinged MuggleCast today? We are open to suggestions. We can get Micah a second shot right now.
[Laura and Micah laugh]
Andrew: I can maybe pound this beer instead of politely sipping it. If anybody wants to offer me more wacky tobaccy, I’m open to that.
Eric: [laughs] It was just that energy that came straight off of living in one of the most magnificent times for who we were, for what our passion was. Laura, you agree?
Laura: Yeah, totally. It was just this really odd time where we caught on to something that really blew up to be a lot bigger than I, at least, imagined it could be at the time. And when you’re that young, having something get that big, and having that big of a responsibility is exciting, but also kind of terrifying, and there were definitely times where it did kind of feel like we were all flying by the seats of our pants, but that was what made it fun at the same time, too. So yeah, it was fun. Those were the scrappy days of MuggleCast. I miss it too.
Andrew: And the scrappy days of podcasting in general. We’ve improved, not just in sound quality, but we try to put together a more organized show for different reasons, including giving a broader audience a certain thing to expect every week. But that said, we never refuse having some fun. We’re always doing something a little goofy on the show. But yeah, we’ll keep that in mind, the unhinged energy, TJ.
Micah: I’m unhinged most weeks; Andrew just edits it out.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: That’s for your own good.
Andrew: Tune into the livestreams.
Eric: Yeah, we don’t want to get canceled.
Andrew: And I will say, the bonus MuggleCast episodes that we record, too… we still need to do more of this, but we could dig deeper into our history to get a little… to bring up some of those wilder memories, which I know people like as well. But yeah, thanks for the feedback, TJ, and for sticking with us. I didn’t realize Laura introduced Matt and I to Twilight. That’s cool.
Laura: I didn’t realize that either, but it kind of makes sense, because I started reading it because my college roommate was reading it, and I saw the cover with the hands holding the apple, and I was like, “Oh, that’s very pretty,” and then I burned through it. And Elysa had read it, too, so we were talking about it, and I think that was when we were all thinking about, “What’s the next book podcast we all want to do together?” So I think that’s how it worked out.
Eric: That makes sense.
Andrew: All right, next email is from Joan on Hermione being in Ravenclaw.
“Hey y’all, I’m listening to Episode 697 and Micah posed the question of why the Sorting Hat ultimately put Hermione in Gryffindor over Ravenclaw. I think Hermione answers this question herself in Book 1: (paraphrasing) ‘Books and cleverness… there are more important things, like friendship and bravery.’ Hermione herself values Gryffindor traits over Ravenclaw, and that is why she was Sorted there. She may have traits that Ravenclaws value, but the traits that SHE herself values pull the most weight during Sorting.”
Great point, Joan. I love that.
Micah: Yeah, I think that goes to what Eric and Laura both talked about in that episode of it looks at your values, right? And Hermione’s values more align with Gryffindor than with Ravenclaw, at least at that particular moment.
Laura: All right, our next Muggle Mail comes from Myda, who’s writing in on the Weasley clock and Molly’s overprotective nature. Also, disclaimer: If I pronounce your name incorrectly, please let me know, because I hate butchering people’s names. So Myda says,
“This is Myda, your fellow Ravenclaw from Lahore, Pakistan. So I have a two-part discussion I wanted your opinions on. Firstly, while listening to recent episodes from Order of the Phoenix and how Molly is overprotective of her family and wants to keep her kids at Hogwarts safe, this reminded me of the Weasley clock and how it tells when someone is in mortal peril. This got me thinking about how every time the trio is on their adventures and Ron thinks he’s probably going to die, and the clock says ‘Mortal peril,’ what does Molly do in this situation? Does she contact Dumbledore at that time and tell him about how Ron is in danger because the clock says so, and is that how Dumbledore knows what’s going on with the trio and when they are on their adventures? Is the clock basically his source for the timing of the adventure? Because he probably knows what the adventure is, considering he usually makes Hogwarts a security nightmare. Also, how does the clock know when someone is in mortal peril? Is it attuned to heartbeats or vitals (like how Star Labs know when Barry is in danger because they can monitor his vitals through the suit)? Is that also how it knows when someone is dead and their handle falls off from the clock?”
Laura: I totally forgot that happens when someone dies. She goes on to say,
“Secondly, I was listening to some of the older episodes, and it occurred to me… how does the curse on the Defense Against the Dark Arts position work? Why did the curse on the Defense Against the Dark Arts consider Moody’s one year completed when he wasn’t even teaching? Does the clock for the year start when they sign the contract, and when real Moody signed it, that’s when the curse started? Or does it work on the magical signature of the person? Because in that case, Moody’s one year never even started, as Fakey was the one teaching. Would love to hear your thoughts.”
Andrew: So first of all, you would think Molly is panicking when she sees that clock switch to “Mortal peril,” given how we see her react in other scenarios. So I don’t know; maybe, yeah, Dumbledore is just like, [imitating Dumbledore] “Oh, no worries. No, it’s totally cool. We have the safest school on the planet. It’s all good.”
Eric: I wonder why they would even put the “Mortal peril” thing on the clock. I mean, would you really want to know? Would you really want to see that?
Andrew: Yeah. It’s like Find My Friends; if you start watching somebody too closely on there, you start getting paranoid. “Oh, why are they here? Why are they on the highway but not moving?”
Eric: That has never happened to me.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Andrew: You don’t stalk your friends on Find My Friends too?
Eric: Uh, Snap Map.
Andrew: [laughs] Okay, yeah, that’s… I would advise not sharing your location on Snap Map, personally.
Eric: Don’t do it. It’s pretty weird.
Micah: Wasn’t there a point in the series, though, when Molly says that they’ve been stuck at “Mortal peril” for weeks, months…?
Eric: That’s right.
Micah: I forget the exact moment that that happens or what book, but I do like this idea. Molly would be monitoring the clock, would likely be in correspondence with Dumbledore, but I’m not sure he really cares all that much, to be honest with you.
Andrew: [laughs] [imitating Dumbledore] “Leave me alone.”
Eric: Yeah, I like the clock. I’m less sure about how it works. What I would say, though, as far as the Moody and the DADA curse part of the question: I’ve always viewed it as the curse that’s on the DADA position is not something where Voldemort lifted his wand and said an incantation. That’s not what’s going on there. That is something where an incredibly powerful magical being in Voldemort has a subconscious will to prevent someone from occupying a position that he covets, and so through whatever means, our will has the way to affect random chance. It’s Felix Felicis level random chance that it’s tapping into; that’s the kind of magic that Voldemort is working, by not… essentially, it’s not like he uttered a spell. It’s not that Voldemort would even be conscious of it, but the universe is bending around Voldemort’s will because he’s a powerful magic person, so that’s kind of always been my guess. And then regarding Moody, I don’t think we know that Alastor Moody wanted to ever teach DADA, especially after the year that he had in the trunk at Hogwarts. It’s not like he couldn’t come back and actually teach; I don’t think there’s a magical barrier preventing him, but right around that time the stuff in the books is heating up and Moody has an Order to be a part of, and so he wouldn’t teach at Hogwarts, even though he’s back on retirement, because he’s essentially un-retired.
Laura: I also feel like that could be kind of traumatizing for the students. Even though intellectually they know this is the real Mad-Eye Moody, they just spent the entire previous year with an imposter, and that would make me uneasy, especially after some of the lessons that imposter did, like teaching them Unforgivable Curses.
Micah: Yeah. I always thought, though, that what happened to Moody was part of the curse, right? So normally we see the professor, for the most part, be able to fulfill their term, but in this case, the curse affected Moody in a different way and impacted him before he started term. So it was, in a way, preventing him from coming back for another year, because his situation was that somebody took over and impersonated him.
Andrew: Yeah, yeah. And I think we can take a more bird’s eye view look at the curse and say the rules of the curse are: There will be a name teaching at Hogwarts this year. That same name will not be teaching the following year. Something like that. I don’t think it really has to do…
Eric: Yeah, tragedy will befall all who occupy this role.
Andrew: Yeah, next year you will have a new professor, come hell or high water.
Eric: Man, honestly, Remus Lupin got away easy comparatively. Compared to Gilderoy Lockhart, who will never be the same again. Here is an email from Jerri about Umbridge almost catching Sirius in the fireplace:
“When the Chapter by Chapter discussion went over just what control Umbridge might have had over Sirius when she (almost) caught him talking to the trio in the fireplace, I was reminded of an earlier strange use of Floo Powder that I don’t recall ever getting much discussion on how it could impact situations like this one. Back in the third book, when Snape questions Harry after Draco had seen his head in Hogsmeade, and Snape finds the Marauder’s Map, and while trying to figure it out gets insulted by Moony, Wormtail, Padfoot, and Prongs, he wants to discuss things with Lupin. To do this, he throws Floo Powder (although unnamed in this chapter, it is described like it was earlier in Chamber when Harry uses it to travel to Diagon Alley) into the fireplace in his office and calls out Lupin’s name. Then, Lupin suddenly appears out of the fireplace! This is never explained in the books, nor do I remember ever encountering an explanation on Pottermore or other of the author’s writings. Does it only work if both people/fireplaces are inside Hogwarts? Or… could Umbridge use this to call any suspected teacher or even student to her office if they happen to be near a fireplace? If she had realized that it was Sirius, could she have called his name and forced him to appear in her fireplace? I admit that I think this is a sort of plot hole. Book 2 saw the introduction of Floo Powder and I think she was playing with it without considering the implications for future books, but it certainly could have come in useful (or harmfully) at times in Order of the Phoenix, and later books.”
Eric: Wow, Jerri, because I don’t remember ever talking about that brief moment with Snape and Lupin.
Andrew: Yeah, that’s a cool call-out, and that would certainly help explain. And at the same time, I agree that Rowling was probably still working through the rules of Floo Powder and how that would all work. But I like that idea, how Umbridge was able to track down Sirius.
Eric: I also think it is a case of Hogwarts being an inside line. If you’re in your local school network… because back in the early ’90s – not to date myself – in our classrooms, in our first, second, third grade classrooms, there were actually little intercoms in every classroom that the office could communicate to the teacher, and you would just hear a voice. Maybe it would beep first, but you would just hear a voice come over, and then… it was basically like the kind of stuff you have at your apartment door now, kind of a com system, and it’s just like that where you wouldn’t even need to dial out. So I think anyone within Hogwarts would be on the same small Floo Network, and be able to travel inter-fireplace-ly. But you can’t imagine how exhausting it was before Floo Powder was invented.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Laura: I was thinking about that, too, this entire time. Early inspiration for the Hogwarts Floo Network.
Eric: Amazing.
Micah: Our next email comes from Ben. More about Flooing; wants to know why was Molly okay with Sirius Flooing the trio?
“Hey all, just a quick thing about Chapter 17 for you all to think about. Molly Weasley isn’t okay thinking about her kids taking part in Dumbledore’s Army, but is okay with Sirius using the Floo Network to talk to them when she knows all kinds of contact in and out of the school are being monitored! Ridiculous! Thanks, MuggleCast.”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Micah: That’s a good point. I don’t really have anymore to say on that, but it’s a good point.
Andrew: Well, this is why we love having feedback from listeners, because they’re giving us perspectives we might not have thought of. This next email is from Isla on Harry’s blood status.
“Hey, guys!!!! My name is Isla, and I have been listening for a while now and I do have a question. So in the golden trio, Ron is known for being pure-blood, Hermione a Muggle-born, and Harry a half-blood. But we all know that Lily and James went to Hogwarts together and lived in Godric’s Hollow as adults. So why is Harry considered a half-blood if both of his parents were magical? Love the show! #RavenclawPride.”
So James is considered pure-blood, but Lily was Muggle-born, so that’s why he’s considered a half-blood.
Laura: Right.
Andrew: It’s not just about his parents; it’s about their parents and so on and so forth.
Laura: So for example, Ron and Hermione’s kids are half-bloods.
Micah: Right. Well, and it’s presumed that somewhere in Lily’s lineage there was somebody of magical blood. We’d have to track it all the way back.
Eric: I think that was an interview question, yeah, that there are no real out-of-nowhere Muggle borns. But definitely for the Mudblood thing, or the Muggle-born versus half-blood thing, I don’t think it’s 100% consistent. Voldemort himself lies about his own status, but I don’t think it’s 100% consistent over… you can call someone a half-blood even if their grandparent was not magical, or Lily gets called that at one point. So yeah, I think it’s a little inconsistent. But ultimately we’ve answered, I think, why it is that he gets referred to that way.
Laura: Well, and the whole point of it is that it really doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. And the whole caste system that the wizarding world has around blood status is very similar to how in certain regions and during certain periods of time, depending on where you were from, or what your particular ethnic background was, certain societies would determine the level of blood purity on the basis of those protected aspects of yourself, and they would come up with very similar, not exactly scientifically specific names. Technically, if somebody… let’s say somebody is a half-blood, but then they have children with someone who’s pure-blooded. That child would colloquially also be considered a half-blood. But what does half-blood really mean? If you have two people who have different quantities of half-blood background in them… it just doesn’t make sense; it’s stupid, and I think that’s by intention, to point out how ridiculous it is to even split people up on the basis of blood status.
Andrew: I do love, though, that each member of the trio is a different blood status. Ron, pure; Hermione, Muggle-born; Harry, half. That’s cool. I hadn’t really thought about that before.
Micah: And the pure-blood is presumably the worst wizard.
Andrew: [laughs] But he’s our Ron.
Micah: Our Won-Won.
Andrew: He couldn’t be further from a Malfoy.
Laura: Next email comes from Bev, who’s writing about alternative professions for Snape. Bev says,
“Hi, y’all. Listening to your episode called ‘The High Inquisitor,’ I wonder what alternative career might have been better for Snape? He’s clearly not suited to teaching at all, so what about dark wizarding academia? Writing books? Research and writing? Not lecturing. Maybe potions inventor? There may be better options, of course.”
But yeah, Bev just wanted to see what our thoughts were. If we were career counselors, or if we were sending Snape to a job fair, what do we think might be good for him?
Eric: I like the dark wizarding academia. From what I understand from friends that are in academia, it’s a very – what’s the word? – toxic kind of space where you can write a paper discrediting or heavily implying that your colleague is a dunderhead, and I think Snape would really love that, and so I can easily see him writing some very sternly-worded letters. “My colleagues aren’t taking this seriously enough” kind of thing.
Andrew: I could see him as a Twitch streamer, maybe playing The Sims and Roller Coaster Tycoon, and he’s drowning his Sims in the pool.
Eric: [laughs] Oh, yeah.
Andrew: Or making his park attendees fly off a roller coaster and die or drown. That’s what I see for him.
Eric: [imitating Snape] “You all are thinking, ‘I want to go home.’ Well, here’s a foot path that doesn’t go anywhere.”
Andrew: [laughs] No, I mean, I know Bev said she couldn’t see him as a professor, but I could see him in higher education. He doesn’t work as well with kids. Kids are not for him.
Laura: No. Honestly, I could see Snape being a coder, and hear me out: He’s smart enough to be a coder, but generally speaking, if you’re a coder, you’re spending a lot more time with your code and a lot less time interacting with people. Marc even refers to himself as a code gremlin. [laughs] He’s like, “I want to be in my cave and I just want to code and I don’t want to talk to anyone.” So actually, I think this would be an ideal job for Snape.
Andrew: I think that’s a good one, because MuggleNet’s old coder, developer, Damon, he was a total Snape.
[Micah laughs]
Andrew: That guy was a vampire. He was mean.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: The only time he was nice to you was when he was nerding out about his passion of coding. Any other time he was horrible to talk to. Bless you, Damon. I hope you’re well. [laughs]
Micah: I could see Snape working in a museum.
Andrew: Really? What, giving tours?
Micah: Just handing out the pamphlets.
Andrew: Dusting the fossils at night?
Micah: Maybe.
Andrew: Night guard? [laughs]
Micah: I would say anything that doesn’t require him to interact with other human beings is probably best suited for Snape.
Eric: As a kid, I really wanted to impress Damon. I wanted him to approve of me.
Andrew: [laughs] And he never gave us his approval.
Eric: No, it never happened. It never happened.
Laura: No, I don’t think any of us ever got that approval.
Eric: No. So our next email is from Jen. It’s a slight bit of a long one, but I love it.
“Dearest MuggleCast,”
Aw, dearest. Thanks.
“First, I love you all so much! Thanks for keeping me company at home for the last four years and for all you do! I work from home by myself, and regularly yell at the pod until Eric says my thoughts out loud for me. Thanks, Eric! Second, I need to jump in and defend against all of the Hogwarts teacher ‘hate.’ Well, not all of it… feel free to continue to hate on Snape and Binns… and maybe Trelawney too; they deserve it. “
Andrew: Wow.
Eric: Okay, okay, so cherry-picking the teacher hate, but calling us out at the same time?
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: This is your fan, Eric. This is your fan. [laughs]
Eric: I’m a little… I don’t know how I feel about it. There’s still ten more paragraphs to go.
“As for the rest of it, though, I think it’s been a bit unfair. We ultimately spend very little time in any teachers’ classroom aside from Snape, Binns, Trelawney, and DADA. They represent the worst and the best (Lupin and Moody’s DADA) in the eyes of Harry, so of course he is going to complain and delight about them respectively. As for the other regular non-DADA teachers, we only get small glimpses into their lessons and classes, but in all honesty, they sound pretty engaging. Or at the very least, they sound well planned with true attempts to make them engaging by the professors. They start with a short introduction of facts and/or a demonstration, followed by time for the whole group to practice, and then individual and partner practice. We see this in Flitwick’s introduction to Leviosa, Sprout’s introduction of Mandrakes, McGonagall’s introduction of Vera Verto, and more. In the entire series, we only see a max of 4-5 snippets of each subject out of hundreds of lessons that we don’t see through the years. Are we certain Flitwick doesn’t teach a unit on household and healing charms? Do we really believe that McGonagall would let them leave Hogwarts without attempting to help them understand the purposes of Transfiguration in the real world?”
Eric: And here’s the explanation for these thoughts.
“I was a middle school Social Studies teacher for 14 years, and am now a curriculum creator. As a teacher, I spent HOURS carefully crafting engaging lessons. I worked hard to ensure that no more than 10-15 minutes of a class was notes and lecture, and when it was lecture, I turned things into gossipy soap opera style stories to help students remember. My average lesson was much like a Hogwarts lesson above: a short 10-15 minute introduction of facts (usually with notes because I didn’t have reliable textbooks), and then the rest of the class was activities – reading, writing, drawing, or creating with groups, partners, or independently. At the end of the year, when you asked my ‘Hermione’ students what we did that year, they would summarize all the projects and contests and activities. If you asked my ‘Harry’ students what we did, they would tell you ‘We took notes’ and maybe mention one of their favorite projects. And of course, if you asked my ‘Ron’ students, they would probably say, ‘I don’t know, we took SOOOO many notes.’ I think you can see my point.
Does Dumbledore need to be doing more to regulate his teachers? Definitely. Do you know how many evaluations, teacher development sessions, educational committees, and seminars I went through each year? I think Snape, Trelawney, and even Hagrid could have potentially been decent teachers if there had been the slightest bit of oversight. The simple accountability of having to turn in a weekly lesson plan with some direct feedback to questionable lessons would have turned Trelawney and Hagrid’s classes around. The knowledge that Dumbledore could pop in at any moment for an evaluation would hopefully keep Snape from being such a frequent bully to his students. Binns was probably a lost cause, but I doubt Dumbledore ever even tried to change him… so who knows?
I always hated being lumped together by the principal at staff meetings with blanket statements like ‘We’re slacking on turning in our lesson plans on time.’ Nope! It was like, three slacker teachers that needed to be addressed by admin just like at Hogwarts. Justice for McGonagall! Love y’all! Jen, a.k.a. Muggle McGonagall.”
Andrew and Eric: Wow.
Andrew: Well, thank you for the teacher perspective, Jen.
Laura: Yeah, I mean, I agree with you. I have no notes; I just agree.
Eric: Did you like lesson planning, Laura?
Laura: I actually loved lesson planning. I thought it was a lot of fun, but it is a lot of hard work as well, especially… in the real world, especially when I was a new teacher, you had to submit your lesson plans pretty regularly for evaluation. And yeah, there were also some surprise visits, where people would come and just sit in on your classroom and watch you do your thing and give you feedback afterwards. So yeah, it’s a hard job. It really can be intimidating, some of the bureaucratic movements that happen behind the scenes. But I agree with Jen here that what’s really missing is that administrative support from Dumbledore to hold all of the teachers to the same standard, instead of just saying, “Sink or swim,” which is I feel like what he basically does, because there is such inconsistency. I mean, McGonagall, I feel like she is objectively a great teacher, but then you look at someone like Hagrid, who clearly has the raw potential to do really well with teaching Care of Magical Creatures, but he didn’t have any training, presumably, and that’s on Dumbledore.
Micah: I do like the way, though, that she laid out comparing some of the students to Harry, Ron, and Hermione, and how they would react just based on who they are at the end of each of the semesters. That was definitely cool. I will say, though, I feel like the characters that she allowed for criticism at the top of her email are generally the ones that we criticize; I don’t think we throw a whole lot of shade on Flitwick or McGonagall or Sprout. Snape would be the one Head of House exception. I mean, he’s clearly brilliant, but I just don’t think, as we said in the prior email, he connects well with children, so there’s that.
Andrew: I also think if we’re saying that we only see some snippets of each subject, can we really be sure that these teachers aren’t teaching other things? If we say that, shouldn’t we also be able to say that maybe Dumbledore is helping these teachers out behind the scenes, and we just don’t know?
Micah: No.
Andrew: I know there’s evidence to suggest that maybe they could… they’ve definitely needed more training and aren’t receiving it, but I guess my point just is there’s so much we don’t know. And that’s one of the great things about this podcast, is that we can speculate about what is or isn’t happening behind the scenes, and maybe we can paint some pictures ourselves. But look, I’ve got to back up my boy Albus; I just think he might be working a little more behind the scenes than we actually know.
Eric: So I have a high opinion of Flitwick’s classes, even though I don’t really get a chance to say that on the show. I bet he’s probably one of the coolest teachers at Hogwarts. I bet he would give you all the time that you needed; he would answer any of your questions. He’s clearly passionate about the subject that he teaches. And I love Jen’s idea that he would teach household remedies; I think that would be really, really good. I mean, he prescribes, after all, Cheering Charms, right? During a particularly depressing time of year. So I think there’s some good stuff.
Micah: Our next email comes from Jennifer, who says
“I fell behind during the holidays, so I’m catching up on Episode 685. I love this episode so much! It was so much fun and had really great debates. Please have Rex back again; he fits so well with y’all! I wanted to chime in on the prefect debate: I like Ron, but seriously Dean or Neville should have received prefect over Ron or Harry any day. I do like that Ron finally ‘gets something,’ especially in front of his family, but this role should not be it. Dumbledore giving it to Ron is still him choosing candidates like a popularity contest. I dislike the frequent argument that ‘poor Ron’ is the unknown or unpopular kid… I call shenanigans! He is a Weasley, he is Fred and George’s little brother, and Harry’s best friend. Would he have gained this popularity/notoriety without others? We don’t really know, but it doesn’t matter here. He is not just some unknown. I would bet my last Sickle that more people at Hogwarts could pick him out over someone like Theodore Nott or Lisa Turpin. At this point in the story, Ron has consistently been described as an average or below average student that frequently relies on Hermione to correct (and in some cases, do) his work for him, especially in the first few books. Book Ron is not unintelligent, just lazy, which makes his ‘mediocre student’ status even more frustrating. That, combined with his penchant for breaking the rules with Harry, does not speak to the idea that he would make a strong prefect at this point in the story.
Personally, I think Neville by Hermione’s side would have been better and pushed him to become ‘leader Neville’ so much sooner. If Dumbledore is simply going by ‘needs an ego boost,’ then what better candidate than Neville? He, like Ron, is also frequently described as a ‘mediocre student,’ but he is seen determinedly working to succeed on his own (except Potions, but that’s on Snape). That alone makes him the better candidate for prefect. Year 1-4 Ron is just not the man for the job… not yet.
Love you all and love the show, Jen. PS: The episode where Eric’s point of reference of winning a criminal trial was Air Bud and their reference for ‘shadowy characters’ was Dr. Claw and Giovanni from Pokémon brought me immense joy. Thanks for always speaking my Hufflepuff thoughts.”
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: You’re welcome, Jen. I take great pleasure when Air Bud references come to me.
Andrew: I like the idea of Neville being the chosen prefect, but I have to say, would the students in Gryffindor House take that seriously?
Eric: I think they’d have to.
Andrew: I’m sorry, Neville. I know. Well, I’m foreseeing some bullying there if Neville got the role, and I don’t think he could handle it.
Laura: I mean, I’m not trying to be mean, but do we think anyone actually takes Ron seriously as a prefect? And I love Ron.
Eric: But fewer people bully him the way they would bully Neville, because he’s Harry’s friend, but that proves Jen’s point, essentially.
Andrew: Yeah, and Harry and Hermione would have Ron’s back. I mean, they’d have Neville’s back, but not to the same extent, I don’t think.
Micah: But Ron doesn’t even really seem like he wants the title of prefect, just by his actions. He wants it, but Hermione is the one that oftentimes has to do…
Andrew: The role? [laughs]
Micah: The legwork, yeah. She’s the one who’s going out there and reprimanding people. He’s too scared, actually.
Eric: And he’s only ever grudgingly doing his prefect duties. I think what I love most about Jen’s email, besides the nice bit at the end, was the idea that Dumbledore… well, let’s make this more passive voice for Andrew’s ego.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: The situation causes a student that was not chosen to be prefect – by whatever powers that be – to be at a loss. We often think about what someone got, but what about the kids who didn’t get to be a prefect? Where did they lose out? So Neville, in this case, the idea that it would have brought his character arc sooner is actually really titillating to me. I like that.
Andrew: This next email is from Abby on teaching styles.
“Hey y’all! I wanted to comment on “I Do, We Do, You Do.” This is a teacher thing in the US. I teach 5th-12th grade band in Ohio, and this is something I do all the time. It falls in the realm of scaffolding, which is just another way of saying a student does something with lots of support, then a little less, then none. For example, I will be teaching a new note to 5th grade. We start with me playing the note, then we do it together, then they play it on their own. I’m not sure what teachers in other countries do, but this is definitely common practice in the US, especially in grade school.”
Okay, good to know.
Eric: I love this!
Andrew: And was this…? We were talking about this in relation to Dumbledore’s Army?
Eric: I think that probably makes a lot of sense, actually.
Laura: Yeah, I think we were also talking about it in terms of what Hagrid could have done to make his Thestral lesson better than what it was.
Micah: Yeah, somebody brought it up and we just didn’t have any idea, right? What it meant. At least, I’m assuming that’s why they wrote in.
Andrew: Oh, really?
Laura: Okay.
Eric: Yeah, so I think that with Hagrid, he could have absolutely taken more leadership with the Thestrals than, “Here they are.” So yeah, I like this a lot. Also, remember when we didn’t know all the music notes, you guys, and could still learn that? I’m getting nostalgic for middle school; I don’t know why.
Laura: Oh God, I can’t think of anywhere I want to be least than my middle school experience.
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: Next email comes from Helen. Helen is writing about blaming Hermione for Harry’s actions, and she says,
“Hi guys! I just finished listening to your discussion of Order of the Phoenix Chapter 12. As part of the discussion of the interactions between Umbridge, Hermione, and Harry, there was a lot of blame being put on Hermione’s shoulders for what Harry said and did in Umbridge’s class. As a therapist, this was upsetting to me on so many levels. I spend countless hours with clients working to untangle years of self-blame for things that are not their responsibility or out of their control. Then I find myself listening to a discussion blaming Hermione for Harry’s choices. Harry’s words and actions are his responsibility and his alone! I mean, okay, an argument can be made that Voldemort/the Horcrux was directly impacting his brain… but that still does not make it Hermione’s fault.
The bigger picture here is the idea that we are somehow responsible for the actions or emotions of others can be very damaging to an individual, and also, at the extreme end of the spectrum, this is the psychology that traps people in domestic violence (‘It’s my fault he got mad at me’; ‘If I hadn’t done this, he wouldn’t have hit me,’ etc). But as your comments on this show demonstrate, it is definitely an idea that pervades the collective psyche, which is why I spend so much time, with so many people, working to unravel this. The only person responsible for one’s actions, words, and emotions is that person, and no one else. Thanks for listening to my soapbox. That discussion just hit a big nerve with me. Helen.”
Laura: Helen, thank you for sending that in. I agree with you.
Eric: Yeah, sometimes we get it wrong, and sorry to have hit your nerve. I think everything you said makes a lot of sense.
Micah: I do, but I also think it’s important to remember that our actions can also have consequences for other people, and you could make the case for that in this particular instance by Hermione doing what she did. I’m not saying that she’s fully responsible for Harry’s actions, but it does lead him in the direction of eventually responding in the way that he does to Umbridge.
Eric: One thing I’ll say about the latest discussions as we go through Chapter by Chapter is that we’re trying to take the same chapter that we’ve already discussed in 2020 and spin it with a closer focus on a certain character that we certainly wouldn’t have delved into as much before. I think I was in charge of this Hermione discussion in the ‘Professor Umbridge’ chapter, so I want to take responsibility if that discussion was unnerving. I know we wanted to take a more Hermione-focused approach to that chapter in general, so I can easily see how that would have actually sounded like we were blaming Hermione for Harry’s and others’ actions in the chapter, but that was only by the… it was unintentional, and it was based on the formula of the chapter creation, but that’s on me as well.
Andrew: All right, final email, from She Who Shall Not Be Named. This is a Chicken Soup for the MuggleCast Soul.
“Hi, MuggleCast. Your podcast has created a surreal and fantastical period of my life. I am no Muggle, but a former witch of Universal’s Wizarding World. They mandated I go undercover after leaving, of course. This job is as fun as you’d imagine, but it would have eventually become mundane had you four not kept me within the world of magic mentally. I listened as I filled Ollivander’s wand shelves for the night, dusted odd things in Hogwarts, and sat on the empty Hogsmeade street, watching the castle lights and listening to frog choir rehearsals. Your episodes made all of those moments feel other-worldly. They also helped me keep up with the 6-year-olds who knew the names of the Peverell brothers. Can’t thank you enough for your ramblings. Reach out for park tips anytime. She Who Shall Not Be Named.”
Laura: Aww.
Andrew: So if I’m reading between the lines here, she would work at the Wizarding World theme park while listening to MuggleCast?
Laura and Micah: Yeah.
Eric: Love that.
Andrew: That’s pretty cool.
Eric: And just the idea that we regularly and weekly help people stay connected to the wizarding world is very nice to hear.
Andrew: Yeah, keeping up with the 6-year-olds who knew the names of the Peverell brothers. That’s funny. [laughs]
“P.S. Things I’ve learned from my time as a student: Hufflepuffs are the best overall (I was so wrong about them as a kid); Slytherins are the coolest by far (Those kids? 10/10. I’m suspicious of their confidence, but I also want one as a life coach); Ravenclaws are either warm, kind, deep thinkers, or blunt and bitchy; and Gryffindors come off as generic, it’s true. Random-ass personalities. Doesn’t matter, ‘cause we’ll still sweep y’all in Quidditch. Signed, a Gryffindor.”
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: So wait, this person is judging the Hogwarts Houses based off of the tourists coming through the Wizarding World land? That’s not fair. There’s a lot of fake fans that go through the theme park.
Micah: The turnstile?
Andrew: Yeah. I think that’s very funny, but also, I think it’s a little unfair. [laughs]
Lynx Line
Andrew: All right, Micah, we have a Lynx Line today, right?
Micah: Yeah, we asked our patrons over on Patreon.com/MuggleCast: How would we celebrate 700 episodes in the wizarding world?
Andrew: Uh-oh.
Micah: And I have to say, the biggest thrill I saw here was the Hog’s Head. [laughs]
Andrew: Of course!
Eric: Classic.
Andrew: That’s where I always want to go.
Eric: They know us very well.
Andrew: Rachel said,
“Begin at Hogwarts for live MuggleCast from the Great Hall, followed by getting their portraits done in the Room of Requirement because it’ll have all the art supplies. Then it’s all aboard the Knight Bus to travel around to place their portraits. Micah’s will go in the Hog’s Head, Laura’s will go in the Department of Mysteries because she was so sure the trio would revisit it in Deathly Hallows…”
[Eric laughs]
Laura: They should’ve.
“… Eric will put theirs on the Hogwarts Express, and Andrew would have tried to put his next to Dumbledore’s but settled for Weasleys’ Wizard Wheezes instead. End the day with a magnificent magical fireworks display over the lake.”
Eric: Michael says, “If Micah isn’t visiting Aberforth at the Hog’s Head, something suspicious is going on.”
Micah: Zachary says,
“I can see the day starting off with a bonus MuggleCast recording at Flourish and Blotts followed by a trip to the Leaky Cauldron. Then around lunchtime, a Floo Powder trip to the Three Broomsticks for lunch and a butterbeer. After lunch, I can see y’all going on a tour of Hogwarts, maybe try a game of Quidditch, and then a special recording of MuggleCast in the same iteration of the Room of Requirement that Potterwatch aired. To finish the night, you all end up at the Hog’s Head where Aberforth and Micah get lost in conversation about goats, Andrew and Eric kill time by cracking jokes of the adult nature, while Laura sips her drink while laughing and rolling her eyes at the nature of the conversation.”
Laura: Yeah, you get it. Leah says,
“7 is the most powerful magical number in this series, so I’d have to say something like a pickup game of Quidditch with all four hosts and their three partners playing to make a team of seven, versus Snape, Neville, Newt, Luna (their first date choices) + Harry, Ron, and Hermione. Who’s playing which position? I’d love to hear the hosts duke it out if they read this one!”
Laura: Honestly, I would want to be a Beater.
Andrew: Oh, good. I want to be Seeker.
Laura: I’ve just got to get that frustration out, you know?
Eric: Yeah, Chaser sounds fun, especially if our partners are allowed to play. We could both pass the Quaffle to one another.
Micah: Keeper.
Andrew: Keeper? Okay.
Eric: Ooh, Micah wants the stressful job.
Andrew: Ashley says,
“Clearly it would begin in the Hog’s Head with a few pints. Perhaps Micah in particular is also several shots of Firewhisky deep.”
Yeah, he is.
“Andrew and Eric are firing off some Weasleys’ Wizard Wheezes fireworks in each others’ general direction.”
[Eric laughs]
“Laura shakes her head, muttering to the witch at the corner table how nonsensical and frankly hazardous this practice is.”
Andrew: Oh, whatever, Laura!
[Micah laughs]
Andrew: We’re going to have some fun.
“Though she is secretly enjoying the chaos.”
I should have read that sentence first.
Laura: Yeah, that is actually pretty on brand. Go on.
Andrew: “A local Hogsmeade band takes the floor and begins to play a ballad about a particularly daft troll and a lovesick wizard. Suddenly we look over and realize that Micah is now slow dancing with a goat and commenting about the intoxicating odor of its hooves. A grand time is had by all.”
Micah, is this really the label you want on yourself? You caused this, all these goat jokes.
Micah: If you go back and look at the transcripts, I’m not entirely sure that I started this, but we can check on that for next week’s episode.
Laura: Oh.
Andrew: Sure. This is the path you have chosen, Micah. You have chosen…
Laura: [laughs] The path of goat.
Micah: Nicole says, “Room of Requirement. Unlimited booze.”
Andrew: Ooh, best answer.
Laura: Hell yeah. And Jen, bringing us home here, says,
“Shots, shots, shots! Starting with breakfast in the Great Hall, leading to a day of Apparition to all the hot spots – Department of Mysteries, Diagon Alley, the Burrow, catch a quick Quidditch game, and maybe take in the sights at Tom Riddle’s cave (just make sure only to drink the shots you brought with you there!), followed by a trip on the Hogwarts Express with a dinner provided by the trolley witch, and end with a bigass party in the Hog’s Head with the fabulous Chloe & Pam and all of us!”
Oh my God, I love this. Cute.
Andrew: Thanks, everybody, who participated. Special thank you, again, to our patrons. Again, you are the reason we have reached 700 episodes. We launched the Patreon with the goal of doing more episodes of MuggleCast, and you all really came out to help us, and we can’t thank you enough. And even if you don’t support us on Patreon, we’re very grateful for your listenership, whether you joined us just this episode, or you’ve listened to all 700 episodes, or anywhere in between. Thank you so much for your support.
Quizzitch
Andrew: Now it’s time for Quizzitch!
[Quizzitch music plays]
Eric: This week’s question: Capable of reaching a length of roughly 19 feet and weighing around 28 pounds, what is the largest known venomous snake species in the world? The correct answer was a king cobra! And that’s the most venomous snake species. There are larger snakes, but they’re not venomous. They’re constrictors! Like anaconda and others.
Micah: They’ll just eat you.
Eric: Correct answers were submitted by A Healthy Breeze; Buff Daddy; Correct Harry Potter answer: Basilisk; Grawp Tuah…
[Laura laughs]
Eric: … Lupinslady; Mary Popp-lock-and-drop-ins; Micah’s Voice Makes My Butterbeer Extra Frothy; Muggle McGonagall… hey, we heard from her! Patronus Seeker; Siriusly the Best; Sneaky Snek; Thaaaaaanks Amigo; The Milk for Nagini; These questions are strange lately, this is my first time, am I doing it right?; and Tofu Tom. Here is next week’s Quizzitch question: What is the nearest prime number to 700? The number 700. If you’d like to submit for next week’s Quizzitch question, any of you math nuts out there – or anyone with Google handy – submit it on the Quizzitch form on the MuggleCast website, MuggleCast.com/Quizzitch, or click on “Quizzitch” from the main nav.
Andrew: Don’t forget that to celebrate 700 episodes, the remaining inventory of our MuggleCast “19 Years Later” T-shirts are now available in the overstock store. There will be a link in the show notes, but just go to MuggleMillennial.etsy.com to pick up one of these shirts. It’s a great way to celebrate 700 episodes and help support the show. Also, if you love the show and want to help us out in other ways besides Patreon, we have MuggleCast Gold on Apple Podcasts. We have the MuggleCast merch store, not to be confused with the overstock store; that’s MuggleCastMerch.com. We’d also appreciate if you left a review of the show in your favorite podcast app. Make sure you follow us in your favorite podcast app, and if you have any other Harry Potter friends in your life, and you think they could use some more Harry Potter fun in their lives, tell that friend about the show. Cheers, y’all, to 700 episodes. Here’s to the next 700, where we’ll be discussing the rebooted reboot of the Harry Potter TV show… in animated form.
[Everyone laughs]
Micah: But next week we’re going to St Mungo’s.
Andrew: Yes, Chapter by Chapter will resume next week. Thanks, everybody, for listening. I’m Andrew.
Eric: I’m Eric.
Micah: I’m Micah.
Laura: And I’m Laura.
Andrew: For the 700th time, I guess, we’ll see you next time. Bye, everyone.
Eric: Aww.
Laura: Bye, y’all.