Transcript for MuggleCast Episode #701, Someone Call A Broombulance (OOTP Chapter 22, ‘St. Mungo’s Hospital…’)
Show Intro
[Show music plays]
Andrew Sims: Welcome to MuggleCast, your weekly ride into the world of Harry Potter. I’m Andrew.
Eric Scull: I’m Eric.
Micah Tannenbaum: I’m Micah.
Laura Tee: And I’m Laura.
Andrew: We are your Harry Potter friends, talking about the books, the movies, and the forthcoming TV show. Make sure you follow the show in your favorite podcast app so you never miss a new episode of MuggleCast. And on this week’s episode, grab your tissues, because we’re discussing Order of the Phoenix Chapter 22, “St. Mungo’s Hospital for Magical Maladies and Injuries.” It’s a big chapter, one big adaptation-worthy chapter.
Laura: Absolutely.
Eric: Yes, I’m excited to talk about that. This episode was so big, this chapter was so big, that the last time we discussed it, we split it into two episodes.
Andrew: Oh, really?
Eric: That’s how big it is.
Andrew: Oh, okay, all right.
Eric: That was the only time we did that.
Andrew: So we’re going to be here for the next three hours, then. Let’s settle in.
Eric: [laughs] No, no, no. We said everything we had to say, and this will be a quick one.
Andrew: Oh, good. Okay, good, because I’m sitting on the floor and my left leg is already asleep, so this is going to be a long episode for me. [laughs]
Laura: We’ll see.
Micah: Well, maybe you need to go to St. Mungo’s, Andrew.
Andrew: Oh, yeah, I need a Healer. I don’t want a doctor. Healers seem to be way less scary, far less invasive.
Laura: Yeah, not those nutters that cut people up, as Ron refers to them.
Andrew: [laughs] Well, listeners, if you love MuggleCast and want to help us keep things running as smooth as Dumbledore’s wonderful network of portraits, visit Patreon.com/MuggleCast and pledge today. You’ll get instant access to over 150 bonus MuggleCast episodes, ad-free episodes, a new physical gift every year, the chance to cohost the show one day, and so much more. We could not do this without you, so we appreciate you like Albus appreciates Harry’s connection to the Dark Lord.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: And other great ways to support us: You can pick up merch at MuggleCastMerch.com; you can leave us a review in your favorite podcast app; you can also send an owl to a friend about the show if they need some Harry Potter friends in their lives; and lastly, visit MuggleCast.com for more information about the show and to contact us.
Chapter by Chapter: Time-Turner
Andrew: So without further ado, time for Chapter by Chapter!
Eric: The episodes – plural – in which we last talked about Chapter 22 were Episode 458, titled “Portrait Party,” and Episode 459, titled “Magicare for All.”
[Laura laughs]
[Ticking sound]
Dumbledore: Three turns should do it, I think. Good luck.
Ron: What the…?
[Bell dings]
[Whooshing sound]
Robotic voice: Episode 458.
Eric: He’s gone the other end of the extreme of ignoring him, that he really won’t call him out. And we see this… Harry is telling his whole story, and Dumbledore is really not even looking at him, not once.
Andrew: Well, Dumbledore is having a party with the portraits and McGonagall comes in, and it’s like, “Oh, McGonagall, come on, join the fun! You’re going to be headmaster one day anyway, so you should be a part of this.” And then, “Oh, there’s the buzzkill, Harry Potter.”
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: “My scar hurts. Umbridge hates me.”
[Bell dings]
[Whooshing sound]
Robotic voice: Episode 459.
Micah: I thought that when Dumbledore sent away Fawkes earlier in the chapter that was going to be to come cure Mr. Weasley…
Eric: Ohh.
Micah: … because Fawkes has a history of healing snake bites.
Andrew: Oh, yeah.
Eric: Oh my God! That’s a huge plot hole, actually.
Laura: Yeah, come on, Dumbledore.
Andrew: You see this phoenix fly into St. Mungo’s; maybe that would have been a little much?
Eric: Wait, why don’t they just have a team of phoenixes as Healers at St. Mungo’s, and they just cry on the wounds and heal everybody?
Andrew: There you go.
Eric: This is a huge plot hole.
Laura: Well, I think they’re incredibly rare, so I don’t know if they could have a team of them.
Andrew: Breed ’em. I know a guy in Oklahoma who may be up for the task.
[Laura and Micah laugh]
Laura: I was going to say, Andrew, you sounded like you were from my parts just then. [in a southern accent] “Breed ’em.”
[Andrew laughs]
[Whooshing sound]
[Ticking sound]
Dumbledore: Mysterious thing, time.
[Bell dings]
Eric: Can you tell we’ve all moved on to the Tiger King era of the pandemic?
Laura: Yeah. Oh man.
Andrew: Ohh, okay, I was trying to figure out what that was a reference to. That’s funny.
Laura: Oh, gosh. This is such a time capsule, in so many ways. Good grief.
Chapter by Chapter: Main Discussion
Laura: Getting into this chapter – I think we called this at the beginning of this episode – but literally, we need to Max this entire chapter, because this is pretty much one of the big world-building opportunities that the movies did not take, and there is so much richness of detail going on here. I think you get a better understanding of Harry’s inner turmoil in this chapter, too, that I don’t think we get to see portrayed as deeply in the films, because they didn’t have enough time, quite frankly, to adapt the entire book. But yeah, Eric, tell us about 2007. What passed the sniff test then, and what do we need now?
Eric: In 2007 we got Mark Williams – fine actor – in a paper crown raising a glass to Harry. Great. Amazing. “To Harry! He’s great!” But rereading this chapter has shown us that there is so much more. This chapter has amazing things with Tonks, Moody, Sirius, former headmasters and headmistresses of Hogwarts, and everyone and everything at St. Mungo’s! All of that, all of it, was omitted from the movie.
Laura: They’d better not leave it out this time, or we’ll have something to say about it.
Eric: Or else!
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: Yeah, that’s right.
Eric: They’re going to need a phoenix to take care of… after we’re done with them.
[Laura laughs]
Micah: Would you say this was the first of many mistakes for director David Yates?
Eric: No, no. That’s… wait.
Laura: Oooh, shots fired.
Micah: That’s not his fault.
Andrew: I do like to remind the audience from time to time, we ended up hearing that Warner Bros. seriously considered splitting Goblet of Fire, the book, into two movies, and if they had gone through with that, presumably they would have done the same for Order of the Phoenix, Half-Blood Prince, and then, of course, they did for Deathly Hallows.
Eric: Slippery slope.
Andrew: Yeah, and I’m sure the movies would have done great, Goblet of Fire 1 and 2, and yeah, they would have kept it up. And yeah, we probably would have gotten some of St. Mungo’s, I think. But yeah, it wasn’t David Yates’s fault. And this is my favorite book and one of my least favorite movies, because they skip over so much, and they advance the plot with newspaper headlines and it’s just, oh, so…
Eric: Oh, right. I did forget about this.
Andrew: I don’t want to call it lazy, but just hacked. It’s hacked together. Stitched.
Laura: It’s a little lazy.
Eric: I think it’s real creative with the montages. I actually love Order of the Phoenix because the things that they managed to condense feel right to tell one story, but this chapter does have so much that… it is Harry, it’s what he’s going through, and I think that the TV show would be able to devote the proper time to going through some of these things. So it’s just…
Micah: Well, I hope so.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: The question I wanted to ask, though, is do you feel like because the world opened that much more with the Ministry of Magic, that they decided not to then include St. Mungo’s? They sacrificed one for the other.
Eric: Yes, it’s like in The Sims or in Tony Hawk’s Pro Skater create a skater park where you reach the size limit. They can only introduce one new place per movie; otherwise, the pacing is off. The budget is off. It’s crazy. I think this discussion warrants a certain audio clip to be played.
[“Max that” sound effect plays]
Micah: You know, every time I hear that, I’m expecting the Game of Thrones theme to play after it.
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: Right?
Micah: It’s just the way it’s synched in my head.
Eric: And how many shows have we seen on HBO since then? But still. I’m the same way, Micah.
Micah: It’s always Game of Thrones for me. [laughs]
Laura: Yeah, same. Well, back to this particular fantasy universe: Harry and Ron find themselves swept away by Professor McGonagall, who does believe Harry. At the end of the last chapter, he’s very insistent, and he thinks no one believes him about this vision he’s just had. And he’s very insistent, saying, “I’m not making it up. I wasn’t dreaming. It was real.” She says, “I believe you, Potter. Let’s go.” Takes Harry and Ron to Dumbledore’s office, where Harry recounts the events of his dream to Dumbledore in front of Ron, by the way, which definitely feels awkward when he gets to the part about being the snake that attacked Arthur. And to Dumbledore’s credit, Andrew – I’m going to give your boy some love here…
Andrew: [imitating Dumbledore] “Yes, yes, yes.”
Laura: … he gets into action immediately.
Andrew: Yes. Quick. Efficient.
Eric: Well, it’s about time!
Andrew: Life-saving work.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: It is about time. And it’s good to see, though! I mean, the way he immediately gets the band together to investigate this situation that Harry is sharing with him, it’s impressive.
Eric: After three months of sitting up in his office and throwing ragers with the other headmasters, Dumbledore is finally getting to business.
Andrew: [laughs] Yeah, I also do love how nosy the portraits are in this scene, but you also can’t blame them, given how boring it must be to be hanging around in a portrait all day, no matter where you are. I think being in Dumbledore’s office is probably one of the more interesting places to be hanging, unless you’re in a very busy hallway in Hogwarts. But yeah, they’re all pretending to sleep, but they’re definitely listening in, which I think we’ve all been there, right?
Laura: Oh, yeah.
Andrew: We pretend we’re asleep so our parents can start talking about things that they wouldn’t otherwise.
Eric: Yeah, that’s the only way to learn how your parents really feel about you.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: That or Extendable Ears.
Laura: Well, you called out the portraits, Andrew; so Dumbledore is speaking specifically to Everard and Dilys, who are former headmasters. And what I love about this moment, and kind of what it implies to me is that it’s Dumbledore’s expectation that all of the portraits are being nosy, because he might need them to act on his behalf at the drop of a hat. And we learn that Everard and Dilys have these special portraits that they’re actually allowed to vacate in order to go to a different portrait at a different establishment, and this is where we get our first hint about what was up with the empty portrait at Grimmauld Place that Harry kept hearing snickering coming from while he was there over the summer. But it ends up being pretty cool, because we find out that Dilys was at one point overseeing St. Mungo’s, so that’s where her portrait is, and that Everard apparently has a portrait somewhere near where Mr. Weasley was standing guard in the Department of Mysteries, and he was able to go there and make sure the right people found Arthur. So it’s actually pretty brilliant to strategically place people in this way and make sure that Dumbledore literally has all the chess pieces close to the vest in his office.
Eric: Yeah, it’s like having a web of spies without ever leaving the office. It’s like having all your contacts and your Rolodex who can find out information for you are just right there on the wall.
Micah: How convenient, for somebody who is a master manipulator to have a web of spies.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: Or a web of portraits. But what I found so interesting about this is for the number of times we’ve been in Dumbledore’s office, we’ve never seen it operate in this way.
Eric and Laura: Right.
Micah: But it’s almost like getting a peek behind the curtain, a little bit.
Eric: I would agree with that. I think that where… we’ve always seen these old former headmasters sort of napping. The way in which Dumbledore utilizes this network and springs into gear is totally new to us, and I think it has to do with… it’s not for Harry’s benefit necessarily, but for us as the readers, this is our, I don’t know, tenth or eighth time in Dumbledore’s office. We are getting more information as far as how this place operates and how Dumbledore operates, which is essential to, I think, making sure Dumbledore has any plot in this book.
Laura: Yeah. Well, he also puts Fawkes on Umbridge patrol. We do get to see towards the end of the chapter, before everybody takes the Portkey to Grimmauld Place, Fawkes… there’s just a flash in the room, and a golden feather appears, and Dumbledore is like, “Oh, shoot, she knows you’re out of bed.”
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Laura: So that was the Fawkes signal. But Fawkes is also communicating messages at the same time; they get a letter from Mrs. Weasley, for example, accompanied by a gold feather. So Fawkes is doing the Lord’s work over here, guard duty and letter delivery. We also read about this fragile silver instrument, and the only way I can think of to describe this is that it’s like a very eclectic, magical magic 8 ball, where Dumbledore is asking it a question, and it is presumably giving him an answer. Micah, can you remind us what that answer was? Even though we don’t get it confirmed in this book.
Micah: So I looked up what the author had to say about this in particular, and she said that “Dumbledore suspected that the snake’s essence was divided – that it contained part of Voldemort’s soul, and that was why it was so very adept at doing [Voldemort’s] bidding.” So I’m curious, do we think at this point he also figured out that Harry was a Horcrux, hence his ability to see through the eyes of the snake?
Andrew: I think so, because he was already curious about Voldemort and Horcruxes as early as Chamber of Secrets with Tom Riddle’s diary. At this stage, with a few more years of research under his belt and seeing what happened to Harry, yeah, I can see him being pretty convinced at this point that Harry is a Horcrux.
Eric: Yeah, and just based on what he asks Harry… Harry has kind of avoided mentioning that he was the snake up to that point, and Dumbledore is really fishing for that thing that’s going to confirm it. So with the instrument, Dumbledore learns that the snake is a Horcrux, and with Harry’s reply, can reasonably assume that they all are Horcruxes.
Laura: Yeah, it is noted that Dumbledore wears a look of “grim satisfaction” when…
Eric: He’s like, “Yes, I got it! Oh, poop.”
Laura: Yeah, it’s basically like, “Ugh, I hate it when I’m right.” That’s Dumbledore, basically.
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: Sucks always being right.
Eric: It’s funny, though, that Laura, you’d say that the instrument is a bit like a magic 8 ball, because that’s also what it’s like to ask Dumbledore a question before Book 7. You’re like, “Hey, Professor, why is this happening?” He’s like, “Reply hazy, Harry. Try again later.”
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: Yep, basically.
Eric: “Alas, the first question you ask, I don’t know. Can’t answer.”
Laura: And then at the end of this book, he’s like, “I’m going to tell you everything, except… I’m not going to really tell you everything.”
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: “Whatever will fit on this little blue triangle.”
Andrew: “I’m going to tell you everything, because now the magic 8 ball is giving me permission to do so.” Do we think “in essence divided” is also potentially foreshadowing the fact that Harry is a Horcrux too?
Eric: Well, between this “in essence divided” line and then the full text of the prophecy, “Neither can live while the other survives,” it really sells that there is sort of this intertwinement happening between Harry and Voldemort. But there were clues before now; the gleam of triumph moment from the previous book, when Harry has just revealed that Voldemort used his blood, and so that’s another way in which… there’s just so many ways in which they’re connected that I’d be surprised if that instrument didn’t say “same essence, divided.”
Laura: Yeah. Well, Dumbledore is still a man of action here. He sends McGonagall to get the other Weasley kids, and he sends Phineas Nigellus Black to inform Sirius that Harry and the Weasleys are coming for Christmas because, surprise, that other portrait at Grimmauld Place is Phineas’s secondary portrait. And Phineas is such a diva here.
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: Why is he so obsessed with himself? Honestly, the casting of Simon Pegg as this character was spot on, and they really should get him for the show.
Eric: [laughs] Yeah, I agree.
Andrew: It was also an interesting bit of lore that we learn here, because the other portraits start getting mad at Phineas that he is not assisting Dumbledore as he is supposed to as a portrait in his office, and one of the witches in a portrait starts brandishing her wand in sort of a threatening manner. And now I’m wondering, what exactly could she do to Phineas? Can these attack each other? Can it hurt the portrait version? What are the repercussions of being attacked?
Eric: Yeah, if not physical pain, then certainly emotional trauma. I’m trying to think of… the Fat Lady is attacked by Sirius, and that bothers her quite a bit, I think, more than just her vanity. You’ve got to imagine that the portraits have some level of ability to feel or sense when someone’s coming in to attack them because they won’t do their job.
Andrew and Laura: Yeah.
Laura: Well, and presumably, if you’re not doing your job and you’re hung up in the headmaster’s office, you can be demoted.
Eric: Ohhh.
Laura: And I don’t know what that means for a portrait.
Micah: Toilets.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: Bottom of the ocean. The most boring existence.
Micah: Snape’s bedroom.
Laura: Yeah, I’m imagining them just getting piled up in a broom closet somewhere.
Andrew: Yeah, that would suck.
Laura: And spending eternity there. I don’t know; I would be motivated to be helpful because I would want to stay in the office.
Andrew: And what else are you doing all day?
Eric: Right.
Andrew: I mean, the only argument Phineas has is that it’s late at night, but you’re sleeping all day. You’re like a cat or a dog; all you do is sleep, as a portrait. You’ve got nothing else to do all day.
Eric: Yeah, and I love, though, that there is this sort of dual purpose, because it’s very common for famous past heads of a school to be represented in some form in a portrait in the school later; that just makes sense. We honor those that have come before. But this network of spies aspect… these headmasters are essentially lending their expertise to the degree which portraits can retain their knowledge or even just personalities. They are all additional helpers for the current headmaster of Hogwarts. It’s like ever since presumably day one, every headmaster that has come can continue to help with the running of the school by existing in this form in the portrait that’s enchanted. So I love this idea that they have this honor-bound duty to help and assist, and Phineas is just not having it.
Micah: Part of it, though, is… I would wonder a little bit more about Everard and Dilys, and maybe what House they were in. When you think about Phineas, he was in Slytherin, so there’s probably a natural tendency right off the bat for him to be combative with somebody like Dumbledore. And there is also the fact that he’s sending him to go to his family home, right? At least as it stands right now; I don’t know how many generations of Blacks lived in Grimmauld Place. But there’s more to this, and so I think it’s not just him being a diva; it’s him being able to create a little bit of controversy because of who he is.
Laura: Do we think this is how the Order communicated before during the first war, or have they kind of tuned things up here?
Andrew: Portraits?
Laura: I mean, portraits, using Fawkes in the way that they’re using him, the fact that, of course, we learn they use Patronuses as well… I’m just wondering if they learned anything from the last war apart from the Fidelius Charm isn’t foolproof, so maybe don’t use that one again. [laughs]
Eric: It’s a good lesson.
Micah: I would have to wonder, just going off of what we were just talking about with Phineas, that using portraits comes with risk. Who knows if you can actually trust them, either to do the work that you’re requesting of them, or to not share information if they have a portrait somewhere else?
Andrew: That’s interesting.
Eric: It is interesting that this book does seem to have a subplot of security measures and how they fail. Kreacher is another example, who interprets Sirius’s flippant remarks to give himself permission to leave, which Dobby could already do. So house-elves aren’t secure; portraits, we just made the case, aren’t secure. It’s a real shame. But I think the one thing that is happening now that didn’t happen to the Order the first time is this aggressive oversight of the Floo Network specifically, and this is a problem now because potentially, Dumbledore would be able to utilize the Floo Network in getting the word out or in saving Mr. Weasley. He doesn’t have that option because it’s now being monitored by Umbridge, and so that’s kind of the thing that… I think that’s why we’re seeing Fawkes used in this way; we’ve never seen Fawkes used before, and all this other stuff. I think the Floo Network would probably be unregulated, or it’s the kind of thing where you’d have to know where to look, but if you’re at Hogwarts and somebody’s watching over Hogwarts, they could find you if you try and use it.
Laura: Yeah. I did find it so interesting that Umbridge apparently just knew that they were up and out of bed.
Andrew: Yeah, why is that?
Laura: Does she have invisible alarms triggered by common room entrances if people are coming and going in the middle of the night? I’m just wondering, is Mrs. Norris spying and then reporting news back to Filch?
Eric: Oh.
Andrew: Is she enlisting other Hogwarts students to spy within the Houses at night?
Eric: That would mean a Gryffindor.
Andrew: Right, I know!
Eric: That would mean there’s a budding Peter Pettigrew who went and told her.
Andrew: [laughs] Aww.
Eric: Peter Junior.
Laura: Yeah. I would say Percy, but he’s not there anymore.
Eric: Oh, that’s… yeah.
Micah: Laura, you just mentioned Mrs. Norris, but it’s McGonagall who tells her to shoo away on their way to Dumbledore’s office, so maybe there is something to that.
Eric: There you go.
Micah: That’s probably how she found out.
Eric: Man, I had this whole idea of Umbridge just has a scream detector in Hogwarts, and when she’s not causing a scream, she perks up.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: Something else is going… because Harry was very noisy, but he’s up at the top of a tower, so I don’t think you’d really hear it. But yeah, Mrs. Norris, got to be the way.
Laura: Andrew, what was the original intent with this attack on Arthur?
Andrew: Yeah, so I love this bit of behind-the-scenes info because of course, when you’re writing a series like this, you have to make a lot of major decisions, and maybe at one point you’re convinced you’re going to kill a particular character, and then you change your mind. That’s actually what happened with Arthur Weasley. The author said that she thought about killing Arthur because parents had to die in order to raise the threat of Voldemort in the series, but she also said in a tweet that “Arthur lived, so Lupin had to die. I’m sorry. I didn’t enjoy doing it. The only time my editor ever saw me cry was over the fate of Teddy.” So I find it very interesting that Arthur almost died here, but I’m glad he didn’t, because I think it’s wonderful that Harry did actually see this attack happen and was able to save Arthur thanks to it.
Eric: I do agree that if Arthur had died, apart from what he brings to the Weasley family in terms of, I don’t know, continued comfort until Fred’s death, I think the fact that Harry was the snake would have been absolutely awful if he had really died. Because Harry never would have forgave himself.
Andrew: Yes.
Eric: And that would have been an even deeper kind of scar that never would have left Harry.
Andrew: And so soon after watching Cedric die. Augh!
Eric: And I think, too, it would have put Dumbledore in hotter water for not explaining this sooner. I think at the very end of this chapter, correct me if I’m wrong, but I think Tonks says – or maybe it’s Moody – that Dumbledore seems to have been waiting for something just like this to happen, and this one is the confirmation. So this idea that Harry was not being prepared, or only after this occurrence he’s taken to Occlumency lessons, is sort of a part of neglect. If Dumbledore had any idea this was going to happen, he could have prepared Harry a little bit better, and because he didn’t, Harry is going to blame himself fully.
Micah: So Eric, I wanted to pull on that thread a little bit with what you were saying about Harry and how he would blame himself, because I don’t know that the Weasleys would ever forgive him. I don’t know that Ron and him would continue to be best buds throughout the rest of his time at Hogwarts. I don’t think that there’s a likelihood, just from how we see Fred, George, Ginny even react to him in this chapter, that that whole dynamic wouldn’t be completely shattered. So I have to imagine, from a writing standpoint, that was part of the consideration here, that if you kill Mr. Weasley in this way, it forever damages Harry and Ron’s relationship.
Eric: They’re never going to trust him. And I’m glad you bring that up, Micah, because I wanted to ask about Harry and Ron’s relationship. Ron is in every scene in this chapter… nearly every scene in this chapter. He’s quiet; he doesn’t say a thing. And granted, a lot of the Weasleys are in shock right now for very understandable reasons. But Ron is next to Harry when he’s telling Dumbledore, when they go to the office, when they’re at Grimmauld Place together, and just apart from shock, what do we think is actually going on in Ron’s mind? Is there this possibility that Ron is at some kind of friendship-breaking moment with Harry because he’s afraid of him, or weirded out or concerned?
Laura: I think there is something there, because at one point when Harry is retelling the story to Fred, George, and Ginny, but he’s telling it as though he observed it from the side and not from the snake’s point of view, Ron does cast kind of an awkward glance at him, because Ron heard the first telling of this story where Dumbledore got Harry to say, “I was the snake.” So I think Ron is probably feeling inner conflict right now between his best friend and his father’s life, because deep down, he knows that his best friend would never intentionally want to do anything to hurt Arthur, but when you’re in that state of fight or flight panic, some of that instinct is going to kick in, and I think that’s what’s happening here.
Micah: I do place a lot of the blame here at the foot of Dumbledore. And Eric, I see that you were questioning, why am I bringing up Dumbledore when you’re asking about Ron? But that’s kind of the point, because this is all taking place in his office, and clearly he has more knowledge about the situation at hand. Does he have to share all of it here? No, I will give him that. But he’s also the headmaster of this school; he has an obligation to these students, and given the traumatic experience that Harry has just been through, the way he treats him is unacceptable, and by association, the way that he’s treating Ron is unacceptable. They need a softer hand here, and they get sent off to arguably – maybe with the exception of Snape – the worst person that they could send him to, because he’s not emotionally mature or equipped to handle the situation, in Sirius.
Eric: Oh, we’ll get to bashing Sirius in a minute.
[Everyone laughs]
Micah: Okay.
Eric: I have a question… and I’m ready for it, and I largely agree. But is it clever, though? Is Dumbledore justified – everything we’ve just been talking about Dumbledore – is it justified, due to the last three seconds before Harry’s Portkey kicks in, and they make eye contact, and Harry wants to kill Dumbledore all of a sudden, he doesn’t know what’s going on…
Micah: Well, you would want to too. I mean, the guy has ignored you for months at this point; he’s not said but a word to you. He’s playing scared at this point. He’s so afraid that there’s this connection, which, yeah, there’s a connection. But you know what? Man up and deal with the situation.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: This is a fast-moving situation, and Dumbledore moves in a very quick manner, as we were saying earlier, and I don’t think there’s too much time for much else. I think the priority is to get all the Weasleys together in a safe location.
Micah: Well, there’s only been the last few months for him to work with Harry to better prepare him for a situation like this.
Andrew: Could he have anticipated this?
Micah: Well, clearly he anticipates they’re connected somehow; he hasn’t been looking at him all year.
Eric: Right, but it gets confirmed when they make eye contact. And here’s the thing: It’s not like Harry wants to kill Dumbledore because Dumbledore has been ignoring him. Harry is annoyed with Dumbledore because he’s been ignoring him. But this surge of hatred comes pretty much directly from Voldemort through Harry, and that’s what happens when they finally make eye contact. And so I think it retroactively might justify Dumbledore’s ignoring him, which hurts me to my core, but if it proves that there is this connection, that there’s so much more going on… and while I think there’s a way for Dumbledore to have been safe and done a lot of this two months ago, I think that when that occurs, you kind of as the reader, like, “Oh, Harry is volatile beyond his own control here.” We’ll obviously get more of this later, but that explains the way the last three months.
Micah: I don’t think it’s all Voldemort, though; I think part of this is Harry. I think this is natural emotion for the way he’s been treated for the last several months. I wouldn’t put this all on the Horcrux or Voldemort coming through Harry. I think some of this is Harry. Back me up, Laura, fellow Ravenclaw.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: It’s the eye contact! It’s magic!
Laura: I was going to say this kind of makes me think about what we learn about Horcruxes in Deathly Hallows, how they affect some people more than others depending on what you’re going through at the time, so I can definitely see Harry being primed to be vulnerable to the Horcrux in this moment. So I think there’s definitely Horcrux impact here – there’s no doubt about that – but I think Harry’s mental guard is kind of down because he’s so angry, and that just makes him more susceptible to it. What do you think?
Eric: Yeah, I agree. It’s kind of like when we get into the Occlumency lessons later; after those lessons, after you’ve been stretching that muscle, you are weaker than ever and susceptible to damage, and so that’s what the warning is. And I think because Harry has just had this traumatic experience, he’s weaker, and I think it really means that Voldemort… even without Voldemort trying – maybe Voldemort is asleep somewhere – all of a sudden can basically see through Harry’s eyes, as they’re able to much, much later with Harry seeing through Voldemort’s eyes in Book 7. I think that Voldemort sees, all of a sudden, the man, the only one he ever feared, his sworn mortal enemy, right through Harry’s eyes all of a sudden, gets a vision of him, because this is what’s happening to another one of his Horcruxes, and I think that’s where the hatred comes from. And Harry would have… if there were another second before the Portkey took him away, I think Voldemort would have possessed Harry, which is a big thing, and actually attacked Dumbledore.
Micah: I don’t know.
Laura: I could also see Harry attacking Dumbledore.
Andrew: That’s a crazy thought. Dumbledore would probably successfully and quickly overpower him, and I think also understand where all of Harry’s rage is coming from. I would have liked to have seen that.
Micah: I also think it’s important to remember that Harry is a 15-year-old young man, lots of hormones raging given everything that just happened, lots of adrenaline pumping. And there is no greater sign of disrespect when having a conversation with somebody than to not look at them, and that’s what Dumbledore has done for months. And so I’m not saying that I disagree with the fact that Voldemort is part of this equation, but I don’t think he’s the whole equation.
Laura: Yeah. Well, let’s talk about when Harry and the Weasleys end up at Grimmauld Place. They take the Portkey from Dumbledore’s office. Harry briefly wants to attack Dumbledore, and we know that Ginny and the twins are ready to throw hands with Sirius, who’s trying to stop them from going to the hospital right now. And he rightly points out to them, “You all can’t show up at the hospital claiming to know about an accident that no one else has heard of yet.”
Eric: Oh, interesting! That seems like a good, mature point! That’s a well-thought-out argument!
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: It is. Unfortunately, it’s not what you say, it’s how you say it, and Sirius just isn’t… and it’s not his fault, but he’s just not equipped to deal with this super well, and it does kind of feel like a bunch of teenagers trying to reason with each other. But the person that I’m really most interested in here is Ginny, because Sirius talks about this, talks about how “You can’t go out claiming knowledge of something that has not yet come to pass, as far as officials and hospitals and even your mother knows, so you have to just stay put and let us work it out.” Ginny is the first one to silently go and sit down, and she spends the rest of the night sitting in calm, contemplative silence, and it makes me wonder if she’s putting two and two together here and realizing that Voldemort is somehow penetrating Harry’s mind.
Andrew: Well, isn’t that interesting coming from the person who had Tom Riddle’s diary?
Laura: Yep.
Andrew: I could see that. I could also see she’s watching all of these boys and men bicker, and she doesn’t want any part of it right now. And I think there’s just a common thread here with the Weasleys in this chapter, the Weasley kids, where they’re just left in the dark. And we’re going to discuss this a little later, too, but it’s really awful how they aren’t as informed as they should be, when it’s your father who was attacked. I can understand other people not knowing, even Harry not being told what happened to Arthur and why Arthur was there to begin with, but for the kids to not even know? That’s just wrong.
Eric: And I’m going to say something not the most toward about Sirius right now, but his first response about it all is that “Your father knew what he signed up for.” The kids don’t want to hear that!
Andrew: Yeah, yeah. Sirius is like, “He was prepared to die. It’s fine.”
Eric: Ahhh. And Sirius values an honorable death; good for him. It’s right. He’s right. The kids did not want to hear that.
Micah: What do we think Sirius’s state of mind is at this particular moment? It seems, when they first arrive, that he might have been on a little bit of a bender.
Laura: Yep, he smells like stale liquor, I think the text says. It’s clear that he’s been knocking ’em back.
Eric: Me on a Friday night; am I right?
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: Knocking back… me recording Episode 700 of MuggleCast.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: Yeah, the 423 is how many bottles I’ve… no. But yeah, I feel like Sirius is just happy. He couldn’t have asked for a better circumstance… terrible circumstance, but he’s so happy for company. And this speaks to something that Dumbledore takes credit for as a failing at the end of this book: leaving Sirius in such isolation. Harry knows how miserable Sirius is; it weighs heavily on Harry to the point where it’s the whole setup for why Sirius would recklessly go out and get himself in trouble at the Ministry later in the book. But for Sirius to finally have company, and even under these negative circumstances, the fact that they’re staying for Christmas, I think his life was just made, because he’s so lonely.
Andrew: And that’s why he’s probably drinking when we see him. Part of the reason.
Eric: I think he’s drinking because he’s miserable, yeah.
Laura: Totally.
Eric: Nothing better to do. No one to talk to.
Micah: I just think it comes down to the fact that at this particular moment, he’s not mature enough to handle this situation, and he lacks the ability to appropriately sympathize with Arthur’s kids. He’s not wrong in his overall approach in some of the things that he’s saying, but it just needs a softer touch.
Eric: Well, there’s no consequences for this. I think he does fine. The kids get to where they need to be.
Laura: Well, not to turn this into a hate fest on Sirius, but there’s another interaction in this chapter where he kind of drops the ball, in my opinion, and it’s with Harry. Harry pulls Sirius aside, hoping that of all people, his godfather would hear him out with his concerns about honestly feeling snakelike and feeling concerned that he actually does want to attack people. We see Harry later after this afraid to go to sleep because he’s afraid that he’s going to slither off and attack somebody else. He’s really trying to open up to Sirius about this, and Sirius is kind of dismissive about it. I don’t think he means to be; I think he’s trying, in his own way, to be reassuring, and saying, “It’s probably just residual energy from the vision that you had,” and not really taking the time to think about, “Hey, we know there’s some kind of connection between Harry and Voldemort. Maybe I should listen to what this kid is saying.”
Eric: Yeah, I agree. This is… Sirius misses the mark at being able to comfort Harry, because he largely doesn’t believe that it’s a threat or is connected in any way. I would say, for being a member of the Order of the Phoenix, Dumbledore maybe should have clued in some of the Order members, including Sirius, that something like this might happen.
Andrew: Do we think Sirius has any idea of what actually is going on? Because I’m not convinced he does. And then my other question is, is Sirius just trying to make Harry feel better? Not worry him too much?
Eric: Yeah, Sirius is… the right answer when somebody comes to you in great turmoil and they’re a child and it’s 3:00 a.m. is “Go to bed; you’ll feel better.” And it’s the wrong thing to say to Harry; it doesn’t work, because obviously Harry has reasons why he wouldn’t want to sleep, but it’s that thing that Micah was saying about his overall approach, right? And so he’s like, “Harry, it’s okay. You’re still exhausted. You have this great ordeal. If you sleep, I’m sure things will be better in the morning.” And it’s not wrong that you’ll feel better because you’re sleep-deprived now, but it’s not what Harry needs. Harry needs somebody to believe him, and especially the fact that… Harry doesn’t like recounting this story. He hated doing it the three or four times he’s already had to do it, but he rushes into the closet with Sirius and is like, “I need to tell you what’s going on,” hoping to get something in return of equal value, and he doesn’t get it. Sirius has become an animal. Sirius is Padfoot, is Snuffles, is the dog. And so if Harry thinks he’s transforming into a snake, maybe Sirius has special insight about that, but none of it comes to light because Sirius hasn’t been prepped to believe Harry very specifically about all the snake stuff.
Micah: I think the reassurance he needed was from Dumbledore, not from Sirius, and he doesn’t get it.
Laura: Yep.
Eric: Well, fortunately for Harry, the narrative quickly becomes “Thank God for Harry; thank God you were in the snake, because we got him in time.” And that is something – although Harry still blames himself to some extent – that really greatly eases the tension on the back half of the chapter for the rest of the Weasleys to be really, really worried. The fact that Molly’s letter soon comes and says he’s okay, or he’s alive, I think really is good for Dumbledore; he got lucky. Harry got lucky that Arthur is okay.
Micah: The one other thing I just wanted to raise about this part before we move on is there is another party that is privy to this conversation and is eavesdropping just outside the door, and that’s Kreacher. And it’s important, because it’s likely that this information is getting passed on to Voldemort, and that’s how he begins to learn about how strong the connection actually is between himself and Harry.
Andrew: So could you say that Sirius is suspicious of Kreacher, and he doesn’t know that Kreacher is listening right now, but he could potentially be overheard, and that’s why he’s holding his cards to the vest?
Laura: I don’t think so, personally. Not to speak for you, Micah. I don’t think Sirius thinks Kreacher is capable of that kind of betrayal at this point.
Eric: Well, Kreacher is loyal to Bellatrix – I think that should be made clear – and Narcissa by extension, because they’re all Blacks. But there’s a difference between Kreacher being loyal to Voldemort and going straight to Voldemort and being like, “This is what’s going on with the Potter boy,” and whatever he might convey to Bellatrix. Now, Bellatrix is at least smart enough to know what questions to ask, so I’m sure this later gets reported on about this dream kind of a thing that Harry has had. But I guess I’d be really interested as the book goes on to see what information does Kreacher betray that he’s overheard.
Andrew: To broaden my question out, maybe Sirius was just concerned about anybody overhearing them in this moment. The Weasley twins; what do they do within this chapter too? Use Extendable Ears. He might not just want to talk about and get into it. Right now is not the place or time to talk about this with Harry.
Eric: Yeah, maybe.
Laura: True.
Eric: It is a shame, though, because Harry… this is a great opportunity. All of a sudden you’re with your godfather, and you want to confide in him, and Sirius just can’t meet him.
Andrew: One of the last times you’ll get him alone.
Laura: After Molly arrives at Grimmauld Place and confirms that Arthur survived, the crew gets some breakfast, they get a few hours rest – except Harry; he is, as I said before, too paranoid to sleep right now – and they are off to visit Mr. Weasley at St. Mungo’s Hospital for Magical Maladies and Injuries. Similar to the entrance to Diagon Alley, the entrance to St. Mungo’s is hidden in plain sight so that sick witches and wizards can dress in Muggle clothes to arrive in disguise. And when I read this, I immediately thought of Lucius and Narcissa Malfoy, and thought no way would these two ever deign to show up in Muggle clothes to get into this hospital. And that made me wonder, is there a private, more elite hospital or facility for people like the Malfoys?
Micah: Probably.
Eric: Oh, God.
Micah: They probably have their own doctor.
Laura: Who comes to their house? Yeah.
Andrew: There is precedent here in the Muggle world. I was living in the Hollywood LA area for nine years of my life, and one time I needed a doctor, and I called them up and they told me they can’t see me because it was a doctor’s office for celebrities only. Like, rich, well-known, high profile people only, and I couldn’t believe it. [laughs] They’re out there.
Eric: What? Your name wasn’t on the list?
Andrew: No, yeah. “But I’m a podcaster! You won’t see me?”
Eric: Yeah, “Don’t you know who I am?”
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: No, you invented The Sims.
Andrew: [laughs] I should have said, “I’m Will Wright, creator of The Sims.” Yeah, and then my other thought is it is an interesting idea that the pure-bloods might not want to dress up in Muggle clothing. But also, if your leg is in serious trouble, will you even change your clothes? I don’t know.
Eric: I think there’s another entrance. Here’s the thing: You’re not going to be forced to dress up, go through Muggle London to get there. That’s how these guys get here, but remember that they’re still being inconspicuous and undercover at the moment. There’s bound to be Floo fireplaces here at Mungo’s. There’s bound to be, I don’t know, a broom entrance, broom parking on the side, valet…
Micah: Right, these are visitors. These are not the people… think about the people who are being brought in. There has to be – to your point, Eric – another entrance that they’re coming through.
Eric: I will also say, if you are grievously injured, you have bites or an artifact did something horrible to you, you won’t care so much about what you’re wearing when you get there.
Andrew: Yeah, exactly. I also do kind of find it a plot hole how they enter through this glass exterior, and no Muggles on the street happen to notice. And the reason in the book is because the Muggles can’t be bothered looking at ugly window displays? Come on, people are still looking in that general direction. This seems like a lazy entrance. She could have thought up something a little more clever, more believable.
Eric: I think it’s a combination of… well, it’s like if you remember Harry… this is Harry’s first and only time at the entrance of St. Mungo’s, but at the entrance to the Leaky Cauldron, I think, he’s able to track people’s eyes looking from the left of where it is to the immediate right; their eyes just dart across it. So there’s clearly a charm and a spell. Oh, same with Platform Nine and Three Quarters, another huge one that we sometimes get little bits of writing saying nobody’s actually watching them disappear through the barrier in general. So I think it’s that same spell…
Andrew: Okay.
Eric: … in addition to the joke dialogue, where it’s like, “Muggles don’t notice nuffink.” It’s all funny, but it’s all an explanation for why nobody’s watching them enter.
Andrew: Carly said, “I wonder if there’s a broombulance.” That’s fun. Instead of an ambulance, a broombulance.
Eric: That is fun, like a stretcher suspended between maybe two broomsticks.
Andrew: [laughs] Yeah. That would kind of suck to get whipped up by the wind as you’re being transported and you’re ill…
Eric: Oh yeah, that would be awful.
Andrew: … but that’s just the crazy wizarding world for you.
Eric: You know what, I got it: the carriage that Grindelwald breaks out of at the start of, what, the second movie? It’s got to be a little portable ambulance kind of thing.
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: Yeah, definitely has to be some kind of emergency intake. But speaking of the infrastructure of the hospital, we do get a high-level overview of the range of possible magical injuries, from unliftable jinxes to vanishing sickness all the way to broom crashes. So does the broombulance pick you up from the broom crash? I don’t know.
Andrew: I was going to say, maybe that’s why there’s no broombulances, because brooms crash and seriously injure people.
Laura: Yeah, perhaps.
Eric: And they’d always be having to upgrade. Think about how often a new broom comes out that’s faster, and then there’d be an issue if you… “Oh, these broombulances are still Cleansweeps; where’s my Nimbus? Where’s my Firebolt broombulance?”
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: I like broombulance.
Andrew: Yeah. Grindelwald’s aerial carriage… doesn’t somebody get pushed out of it, or falls out or something like that? So maybe that’s not too safe either. I mean, don’t open the door when you’re in the air, but…
Eric: And it would kind of be a problem if Thestrals are taking you to the hospital. You wouldn’t have a high degree of confidence that you would get there safely, because of the bad things that are said about Thestrals. Bad omen.
Micah: He throws poor Antonio out of the…
Andrew: Antonio, that’s it. The lizard.
Eric: Oh, Antonio. He kisses him first.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Micah: Was it a chupacabra?
Andrew: That’s it, yeah.
Eric: Why did that exist?
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: Well, thinking about the various afflictions that we see referenced on the board at the welcome desk, does this imply that all other non-magically afflicted illnesses can just be magically addressed? I’m thinking what about cancer? What about heart disease? Are these things that wizards can just magic better, and if so, why are they holding out on everyone else?
Andrew: Yeah, do good for the world.
Eric: Statute of Secrecy.
Laura: Yeah, it’s true.
Andrew: No, but it is interesting to me that they can fix the Muggle injuries easily, but not magical damage. Look at Arthur still bleeding when Harry and co. come and go to visit him in the hospital. They can’t easily fix that? And yet they have a chip on their shoulder because, “Oh, we don’t have doctors; we have Healers. They can do everything without being invasive,” but they can’t fix Arthur. And I know that’s a special circumstance, being bit by Voldemort’s snake, but still. Check yourself.
Eric: I think it makes sense to me that magical wounds would be harder to heal with magic than non-magic. It’s just the next level of attack or damage.
Andrew and Laura: Yeah.
Eric: But I do like the idea that there’s over-the-counter potions, or of the sort, for remedies that still trip us Muggles up. That would be cool if wizards have largely figured out… I mean, they can regrow bones. I think Arthur is taking a Blood-Replenishment Potion. Some of these things that are very just offhandedly mentioned would save real Muggle lives.
Laura: By the way, just quick shout-out here to Broderick Bode. We’ll come back to why you’re important later, buddy.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: Good for you.
Micah: He had a visitor.
Laura: But nice, sneaking little reference to him in this chapter. Yeah, he did have a visitor. What do you think the visitor was there for?
Eric: Probably to silence the Unspeakable forever?
Micah: Moral support? [laughs]
Eric: Oh, yeah. Moral support, yeah.
Laura: Yeah, moral support to make him be quiet forever. [laughs] Well, as is called out, Arthur is pretty chipper despite the fact that he can’t stop bleeding. And this made me wonder if… we know there’s something special about Nagini’s poison that prevents his wounds from healing. Is this a Maledictus thing? Are all Maledictuses deadly in some capacity when they’re fully transformed? Or is this just Nagini’s specialty because she’s Voldemort’s?
Eric: It’s hard to say, but I think it is a Maledictus thing, because the Maledictus is referred to as a blood curse, and so everything about Nagini is cursed.
Micah: I just don’t know if the author had determined that Nagini was a Maledictus at this point.
Andrew: I haven’t gotten that impression.
Laura: Yeah, I don’t think… I think that was a little bit of a retcon, if I had to guess. [laughs]
Eric: Assuming, then, if at this point in the story’s development, writing, and publication that she’s not a Maledictus, then the answer has to be she’s just a venomous snake.
Micah: With special powers.
Eric: Exotic enough to throw the London wizards for a loop with her venom. But there is precedent in nature for the saliva preventing wounds from closing of venomous creatures.
Laura: Yeah, that is a real thing for sure. But Arthur has other more pressing concerns, right, Micah?
Micah: He wants to see where the Muggles are being treated that have been brought to St. Mungo’s. [laughs]
Andrew: Oh, Arthur.
Micah: And I do just love that his love for Muggles just continues to shine through, no matter the situation that he’s in. But part of that, I think, is a misdirect.
Andrew: Oh. Yeah, it could be partly that. But I think this also just speaks to his current spirits and health, that he’s able to think about something like that, as opposed to his own health. He’s ready to get out of the hospital, he says in this chapter, if it weren’t for the fact that he keeps bleeding. So he’s in good spirits; he’s feeling like he’s basically recovered, or on the road to recovery, and he can get back to his passions of rubber ducks and other Muggle things.
Laura: But yeah, I think Micah is onto something with saying that this might have been an attempt to distract, because we see Fred and George really trying to grill Mr. Weasley about what he was doing and why he was doing it, what exactly happened to him, and Mr. Weasley is coming up with every bit of distraction fodder that he can to try and get them to change the subject. And ultimately, Mrs. Weasley shuts it down, and everyone gets kicked out of the room, to which Fred and George pull out those Extendable Ears again, which… they’re a bit of a blessing and a curse because unfortunately, this time around, Harry gets to overhear Mad-Eye, Molly, Arthur, and Tonks talking about him very, very candidly in front of all of his friends.
Andrew: Careful what you wish for.
Laura: And that is where our chapter ends. Pretty awkward.
Andrew: Yeah. Again, I find it messed up that Arthur and Molly aren’t giving at least their children a fuller picture of what went on. I think that’s messed up. Imagine if that was our parent, and we didn’t really know what happened to them or why, or where they were. They almost died, and we’re not getting answers? All because they’re in the Order of the Phoenix, “Greater good, he was prepared to die…” Stop. It’s still the parent.
Eric: Yeah, I think we could actually blame that one on Molly and Arthur, because they would be afforded some level of discretion to communicate more circumstances. Dumbledore wouldn’t be super happy with them if they did, but he also wouldn’t be like, “No, you couldn’t tell your kids.”
Andrew: “Don’t tell your…” Yeah, “I’m going to be the parent now. I’m barely Harry’s parent, and now I’m going to be a parent for the Weasleys.”
Eric: Because Dumbledore is all about the greater secrecy and stuff, but Arthur is the one who firmly chooses to be like, “That’s my business where I was. Sorry, guys.”
Micah: I’m interested to see how the story gets spun, though, because you’re talking about the Head of the Misuse of Muggle Artifacts Office being down to the Department of Mysteries. What exactly was he up to? And his kids are smart enough to know that he was doing something related to the Order, and they get pretty close, but he’s… and I also just don’t think this is the right environment for this conversation to be happening, too, because they’re in a public place, even though there’s only two other people that are in the room with them, in these beds near Arthur. But you don’t know who’s listening. I don’t know. I just feel like it should have been a pull-aside conversation where Molly gives a little bit more information to the group, because I don’t think it’s fair that Harry gets revealed in this way either.
Laura: Yeah, agreed. I mean, don’t they know about the Extendable Ears at this point too? It’s not a secret that the kids have them.
Andrew: Right.
Micah: Can’t Mad-Eye see what they’re doing?
Andrew and Laura: Yeah.
Andrew: See, this is what I’m saying about Sirius. He knew people… there were prying ears around.
[Laura laughs]
Micah: I did want to just say, too, I thought it was pretty rich that Mad-Eye feels entitled enough to say that they all know there’s something off about the Potter kid.
Laura: Oh, yeah, because he’s one to talk.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Micah: Right.
Andrew: “Mad-Eye” Moody has this to say about Potter.
Micah: Takes one to know one.
Eric: Wow.
Andrew: Takes an eye to know an eye. A Mad-Eye, you could say.
Odds & Ends
Laura: And just one odd and end this week that I thought was interesting: They’re kind of laying the groundwork in this chapter for what ends up happening to Bill, him becoming a werewolf when he’s attacked by Fenrir Greyback in the next book, because one of Mr. Weasley’s roommates is a werewolf, and Molly actually shares… she expresses some nervousness about Mr. Weasley sharing a room with a werewolf. She asks him, “Is it safe?” And Mr. Weasley is like, “Of course it’s safe. He’s medicated.” And he’s doing the gracious and good thing by talking to this person and letting them know and reassuring them, “Hey, I know somebody who finds the condition pretty easy to manage, stay on top of it, you’re going to be okay,” and I think this just perfectly establishes that Mr. Weasley has the right attitude towards the condition that his son’s about to have in about a year. So I thought that was nice.
Eric: I like that. Also, it’s such a Mr. Weasley thing to just befriend and try and offer some comfort. You’re both in… “What are you in there for?” and kind of just try and cheer up. It’s also a Mr. Weasley thing that he fails miserably at it!
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: That guy does not want to hear what Mr. Weasley has to say. Threatens to bite him. So I think this chapter does a good job of making us appreciate that Mr. Weasley was not murdered.
Laura: He’s too wholesome to be murdered.
Eric: Yeah, too pure. Unlike Hedwig.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Superlative of the Week
Laura: Well, I think we all know that one of the worst things Mr. Weasley could do while he was guarding the freaking prophecy was to fall asleep, which is what we know happens. He kind of nods off, and that makes him susceptible to this attack. What is the worst thing to do on duty while guarding the prophecy, from our perspective? And we aren’t allowed to pick sleeping, because Mr. Weasley already did that.
Andrew: So I’m sitting there in my chair on my phone. I’m going, “Five letters… last one is a C… MERLIN’S BEARD!” I was playing Wordle. Five letters?
Laura: Yeah. [laughs]
Andrew: And the word is “Magic,” by the way, because it ends in a C.
Eric: Ohhh! Oh, I love… Wordle! Oh, I love that.
Andrew: [laughs] Remember Wordle?
Eric: I hope you would get signal down in the basement of the Ministry of Magic. But yeah, I love that. I would probably be doing what I’m doing any other day of the week, which is dancing and singing along to The Rise and Fall of a Midwest Princess. [to the tune of “Pink Pony Club” by Chappell Roan] “I’m gonna keep on dancing down on sub level four…”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Micah: I’d say probably leaning against the shelves. Not a good idea.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: Yeah, causing some problems.
Eric: Oh no.
Laura: That’s how you destroy all the Time-Turners. Until Cursed Child, of course.
Eric: Until Cursed Child.
Laura: And then I picked something that sounded like a uniquely Arthur thing to do if he’s sitting in silence, bored and trying to entertain himself: attempting to enchant a loud Muggle device, like an alarm that ends up blaring endlessly and being unable to turn it off. That’s another way to alert the snake where you are very, very quickly. All right, well, thanks for playing along with me on that, y’all.
Lynx Line
Laura: We also have our Lynx Line. MuggleCast listeners who are members of our community over at Patreon.com/MuggleCast have answered this week’s question, and the question is: If you were a Healer at St. Mungo’s, which floor of the hospital would you want to work on and why? And just as a reminder, the floors of the hospital are Artifact Accidents, Creature-Induced Injuries, Magical Bugs, Potion and Plant Poisoning, Spell Damage, and Visitors’ Tearoom/Hospital Shop. Man, that feels on brand.
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: It feels like everywhere you go, they have to have a shop, and it’s like, is this necessary?
Andrew: “Don’t forget to exit through the gift shop.”
Laura: Yeah, basically. “Sorry for your trauma.”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: So Rachel said,
“I would be the handler for all the therapy animals at St. Mungo’s. I’m picturing mini unicorns, Mooncalves, Pygmy Puffs and a mini chimera (like Syrinx from the Crescent City series). Or something involving data and record-keeping, because I’m a nerd.”
Eric: I love the idea of emotional support Mooncalves!
Laura: Yeah, oh my gosh.
Eric: Mooncalves are emotional support creatures.
Andrew: They’re definitely one of the cutest fantastic beasts.
Eric: Those and Diricawls, for sure. So Julianne, on the Lynx Line, says, “I’ll be at the tearoom/shop, as far away from blood as possible.”
Micah: Jennifer says,
“I have worked as a labor and delivery nurse for over 20 years, and I’ve often wondered how witches had their babies? Unless they Apparate the baby out of the mom, they would need a floor at St. Mungo’s for moms and babies. Of course, that is where I would want to work.”
Laura: That’s an interesting question.
Andrew: It would make a sound like thoomp, like in Luigi’s Mansion, right, Micah?
Eric: Yeah, oh…
Laura: [laughs] I was imagining like a, pop.
Micah: Put the vacuum up… never mind.
Laura: Like a popping sound.
Eric: I’m just imagining you cast Episkey and the kid comes out.
Micah: That is interesting there’s no maternity ward listed at St. Mungo’s.
Andrew: I guess that means there’s a whole different building. A whole different hospital.
Eric: Wizards do home birth. There’s a spell for that; makes it really easy.
Laura: Probably.
Andrew: You would think so. We should do a whole episode on that.
Micah: “Accio baby.”
Laura: It does feel a little weird for a book series that is so concerned with mothers that there isn’t a maternity ward.
Andrew: [laughs] But how do you become a mother?
Eric: You just do.
Andrew: “Well, when mommy and daddy…” Sorry.
Laura: [laughs] Our next one comes from Leah. Leah says,
“As a current grad student in nutrition (future registered dietitian), I’d have to say I’d be working in the tearoom to provide super healthy, yet delicious treats and meals from whole foods and featuring some fun magical herbs and fungi. Think about pulled mushroom barbecue, colorful pickled veggie slaw, some raw vegan brownies, golden milk lattes… I would brighten up the hospital food for the patients as well as their visitors and my fellow hospital staff. It’s insane; in the Muggle world, I take huge issue with the prevalence of ultra-processed foods in hospitals.”
Andrew: That is really backwards. Good point. Hadn’t thought about that.
Laura: Yeah, very good point, Leah.
Andrew: Rosalie said,
“I’d be working on the ground floor in Artifact Accidents. There are a lot of hazards, even with Muggle artifacts (I work in museum collection care), so I can only imagine the absolute chaos that cursed, exploding, and malfunctioning wizarding artifacts would cause. Yikes!”
Eric: Nicole says,
“The author left out a crucial part of the hospital, which would be the medical records! I would add this to the fifth floor to be as far as possible from any cauldron explosions, since without technology, they would definitely have paper records. This is my job in the Muggle world, so I would want to do something similar in the wizarding world – be healthcare adjacent, without any bodily fluids.”
I love that a lot of a lot of people who responded are choosing their real life job version.
Andrew and Laura: Yeah.
Micah: Mev wrote in,
“Potions and Plant Poisoning. I would be good at making potions. I would try to stay in the background, not treating people, but brewing potions so other Healers can help them. I would love to think my potions also could be used to treat magical creatures as well, or that I brew specifically for the magical creatures.”
Laura: Oh, I love that. And last but not least, Zachary says,
“I would love to set up shop in the tearoom as some sort of post-traumatic stress/trauma therapist to help the affected and their families adjust to their new lives and lifestyles. This chapter always makes me wish someone was available to Neville, and I’ve always had an urge to help those who need it. I’d also like to head a department that searches and experiments for cures for the incurable. Using a mixture of Muggle science and wizard magic, I’m sure the job would be very successful and helpful for everyone affected.”
Good call.
Andrew: Thanks to everybody who contributed, and you can read more of the responses at Patreon.com/MuggleCast. If you have any feedback about today’s episode, you can email or send a voice memo that you record on your phone to MuggleCast@gmail.com. Next week, we will be discussing Order of the Phoenix Chapter 23 – oh, look at this! Ho, ho, ho! It’s “Christmas on the Closed Ward.” Before we get to Quizzitch, check out our other weekly podcasts, What the Hype?! and Millennial, for more pop culture and real world talk. This week on What the Hype?!, Laura and Micah wrapped up their coverage on The White Lotus, and Eric and Laura kicked off coverage for The Last of Us Season 2. Then over on Millennial, we’re crying into our retirement accounts as we talk tariffs, but we’re also talking about some easy ways to make the most out of your budget right now. And we were also looking at how other Millennials are getting by right now, given the current economic situation.
Quizzitch
Andrew: And now it’s time for Quizzitch!
[Quizzitch music plays]
Eric: This week’s question was what is the nearest prime number to number 700? You guys, it’s a Quizzitch first! The correct answer to this week’s Quizzitch question is the number of this episode!
Andrew: Whoa, that’s actually pretty cool!
Eric: 701 is the nearest prime number to 700, and correct answers… 65% of folks said that they did not look that up. And correct answers were submitted by Blinkey the House-Elf; Elizabeth K.; Fluffernutter; Hey Micah You’re So Fine, You’re So Fine You Blow My Mind; First Time Knowing the Answer; I spent 2 hours and 30 minutes calculating this because I didn’t want to look it up; I have a secret gay crush on Andrew…
Micah: Me too.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: … Madeline; Patronus Seeker; Sarah B.; Not bad for a girl that took Remedial Algebra; Scorpio Slytherin; The Minister of Prime; Transfigure me into Micah’s mic… a lot of Micah.
Andrew: Wow.
Laura: Oooh, okay.
Eric: … Umbridge’s missing Educational Decree banning Portkeys; and Will Professor Vector be proud of me now? Here’s next week’s Quizzitch question: The London entrance to St. Mungo’s features a mannequin that moves and articulates. What is the name given to the ambulatory mannequins in the first episode of the 2005 Doctor Who revival? That episode, by the way, is called “Rose.” Submit your answer to us on the MuggleCast website, on the Quizzitch form located at MuggleCast.com/Quizzitch. If you’re already on our website checking out our amazing transcripts or our must listens page, just click on “Quizzitch” from the main nav.
Andrew: Thanks, everyone, for listening to this week’s episode. Don’t forget to visit Patreon.com/MuggleCast to support us, leave us a review in your favorite podcast app, and tell a friend about the show. Thanks, everybody, for listening. I’m Andrew.
Eric: I’m Eric.
Micah: I’m Micah
Laura: And I’m Laura.
Andrew: Bye, everyone!
Eric and Laura: Bye.