Transcript for MuggleCast Episode #713, The Harry Potter TV Show Reveals First Looks and More!
Show Intro
[Show music plays]
Andrew Sims: Welcome to MuggleCast, your weekly ride into the world of Harry Potter. I’m Andrew.
Eric Scull: I’m Eric.
Micah Tannenbaum: I’m Micah.
Laura Tee: And I’m Laura.
Andrew: And we are your Harry Potter friends, talking about the books, the movies, and the upcoming TV show – we’ll pay a lot of attention to that this week – so make sure you press that follow button in your favorite podcast app, and you will never miss an episode with your Potter people. And this week… I actually lied accidentally at the end of last week’s episode. It’s not another Chapter by Chapter episode of the show; sorry about that. We have a Muggle Mail episode for everybody. And like I said, we’re going to be talking about the Harry Potter TV show.
Micah: You know who feels sorry, Andrew, most of all? I feel sorry because I was coming back from a work trip, and I didn’t anticipate having to plan an episode because I didn’t think it was a Muggle Mail episode because you had said at the end of last week’s episode that we were doing the next chapter.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: So I get back at 2:00 a.m. on Tuesday morning and I’m like, “Oh man, I have to put together a Muggle Mail episode.” But luckily, the bag had been filling up, and so it was easy enough.
Eric: I was going to say, so instead, Micah wrote all of today’s emails, actually.
Micah: I did.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: It was easier than opening that…
Micah: Courtesy of ChatGPT.
[Eric laughs]
Laura: Oh, you’re not supposed to admit that part, Micah.
Eric: Aww.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: But I did feel bad, Micah, that I kind of messed with you, so I did flesh out this full TV show discussion.
Micah: It was great seeing you, though, by the way.
Andrew: It was good seeing you too. You came to Vegas. I saw Eric here in Vegas, too, a couple weeks ago.
Eric: That was good.
Andrew: I’ve collected two out of three. There’s one more Pokémon to go.
Laura: I know.
Andrew: It’s this Squirtle over here, Laura.
Laura: It’s me. Aw, and that’s my favorite starter Pokémon. How did you know?
Andrew: [laughs] Oh, really? I totally… I was going to say I should have guessed Bulbasaur, because you’re wearing green today.
Laura: Oh. No, I mean, that’s just my favorite color, but I think you could probably guess Squirtle is my favorite starter Pokémon because it is in my PlayStation network username.
Andrew: Oh!
Laura: That’s probably where you got it from.
Andrew: Yeah, deep in my head that came out, yeah. Although, Eric is dressed as Squirtle today, because you’re wearing a blue shirt.
Eric: It’s true, I’m more Squirtle today.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: But that’s okay. And nobody is Charizard, or Charmander.
News
Andrew: But anyway, it’s been a very busy week in the world of the Harry Potter TV show. Filming officially began on Monday, July 14, and Warner Bros. released a first look at Dominic McLaughlin as Harry Potter himself. I think everybody looking forward to this went, “Aww.” And he looks like Dan Radcliffe when he started! It’s a cute photo.
Eric: Well, he does have the same color eyes as Dan Radcliffe, which is to say, not the same color of eyes as Lily Potter or Harry in the books, but he’s…
Andrew: That’s it! I’m out! Forget this.
Eric: I know, I know, the negativity rolls on. What I’ve seen in comparison – and this makes sense to me – is the early drawings of Harry Potter, which I think were largely done by Mary Grand-Pré. He looks like those in the same way that 11- or 10-year-old Dan Radcliffe looked like those, and it feels altogether similar, nostalgic, tugs at your heartstrings. He just looks like a cute kid. [laughs] He’s a kid you want to protect at all costs and see succeed, so good for him.
Laura: Yeah, he does look very cute. It’s funny, because I don’t think back in the heyday of casting rumors and first looks during the movies, I don’t think we would have described anyone that way, because we were close in age to the actors.
Eric: Right.
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: But now it’s just like, “Oh, he’s such a cute little kid. Someone has to protect him at all costs.” And he looks great; I actually saw a funny comment that was like, “He looks more like Dan Radcliffe than Dan Radcliffe.”
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: That’s interesting.
Andrew: Yeah, it’s kind of surreal to see this, too, right? Here is a new person stepping into this role. And of course, we’ve seen people portray Harry Potter through the Cursed Child, but this is a massive new undertaking. Warner Bros. has called this an eight to ten year project. We’re going to be looking at this photo in eight to ten years from now being like, “Oh my God, where did the time go?” It’s going to be a completely different child eight to ten years from now. It’s kind of fascinating.
Laura: And then we can look back on our photos and the video evidence of us eight to ten years from now and really make ourselves feel terrible.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: That’s right. Look at us now before we all go gray.
Laura: Oh, it’s already started, Eric. For me, at least. [laughs]
Eric: Yeah, same. No, honestly, I’m hiding a few things under this bleach.
Micah: We age like fine wine.
Andrew: We do.
Eric: It’s true.
Micah: But is the scar there, though? I’m trying to…
Andrew: It is. There it is.
Eric: Oh, that’s…
Micah: It’s not as overwhelming as Dan Radcliffe’s, from what I recall.
Andrew: And that’s okay, right? It doesn’t need to hit you over the face.
Micah: Yeah, it needs to be subtle.
Eric: Well, what it is is you’re going to be staring at this scar for eight hours instead of two and a half, so it had to be a little bit more…
Andrew: [laughs] Right. Slow and steady scar exposure is more palatable here.
Eric: Plus, maybe it gets more noticeable as you go on.
Laura: Yeah, I also feel like it’s more book accurate to the way the scar is described. I feel like in the movies, they really leaned in on making it a perfect lightning bolt.
Andrew: Right. [laughs]
Laura: It was too perfect to have worked. But this, I think, is more what I imagined when I was reading.
Andrew: And what you would expect a scar to look like after ten years. Think of ourselves when we have a scar; it’s going to look more like this. So that’s good.
Eric: Well, I’m still going for Mary Grand-Pré’s Goblet of Fire cover accurate canon scar where it’s right in the middle of his forehead.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: Ohh. Yeah, that’s a little too on the nose.
Eric: Honestly. This is the best book cover. Harry looks genuinely cute, but the scar is right in the middle of his forehead right here.
Andrew: So Dominic is holding a director’s clapboard, and we see here this is Episode 1, Scene 1. Interesting. But the director, Mark Mylod, he has some big credits under his belt. He was a producer on HBO’s Succession; he directed six episodes of Game of Thrones; he directed Episode 2 of The Last of Us Season 2. You all remember that one?
Eric: Huge action episode.
Laura: Oh, yeah.
Andrew: Titled “Through the Valley.”
Laura: Yeah, that was a great episode.
Andrew: He also directed the movie The Menu, which, coincidentally enough, starred Ralph Fiennes. Great movie.
Eric: Oooh!
Andrew: It’s not what you expect; just warning to everybody who watches it.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: We knew he was tied to Harry Potter; we didn’t know he was going to be directing Episode 1, so that’s a little news as well. Warner Bros. also announced that the series is arriving in 2027. They had been saying 2026, then it was 2026/2027, now it’s 2027. Hopefully it’s the start of 2027, because it’s currently July 2025. If we have to wait two years for this, that seems like overkill, so I would think early 2027 is when we’re going to be seeing this series.
Micah: Yeah. Well, especially because we’re looking at Dominic here, but two years from now, he could look totally different when he’s doing press for Sorcerer’s Stone.
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: Right.
Eric: Oh.
Andrew: I didn’t think about that.
Eric: That’s actually quite funny, yeah.
Andrew: And on a related note, we did learn this week that Seasons 1 and 2 – so in theory, Sorcerer’s Stone and Chamber of Secrets – will film back to back. That is according to Production Weekly, an industry trade publication. And we’ve speculated they might do this type of thing, because the kids, to your point, Micah, are going to be growing up fast, and we don’t want too much whiplash in between seasons, like we have seen with Stranger Things.
Eric: Yeah, and also that news in particular about them filming back to back didn’t surprise me because I remember hearing that for Chamber of Secrets, the movie, they filmed pretty much the week that the first movie opened, so it was that quick a turnaround. But that still was such a time difference that we do have the pronounced… Dan went through puberty between Movies 1 and 2, basically, and had a totally different voice. So I think they’re trying to keep that as smooth as possible, the perceived aging, and then once they’re teenagers, it’s like, “Okay, 13 looks like 14, but 14 doesn’t look like 11.”
Andrew and Micah: Yeah.
Micah: Well, and the other big piece that would have clued us in on that is that they cast Lucius Malfoy, who is not in Sorcerer’s Stone.
Andrew: And Fudge, too.
Laura: Right, and Fudge.
Andrew: And that actor actually confirmed… there’s been a lot of news this week. That actor also confirmed that he is going to be in Season 1, so what does that mean exactly? We don’t know, but we’ll see. Also on Monday, we got four new cast members. Rory Wilmot will play Neville Longbottom, Amos Kitson will play Dudley Dursley, Louise Brealey will play Madam Hooch, and Anton Lesser will play Garrick Ollivander. Takeaway, I’ve seen Neville, the actor playing Neville. Very cute kid. Other than that… they all check out.
Eric: They’re all cute. Especially Anton Lesser as Garrick Ollivander.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: The big news for me – and I wasn’t expecting the TV show to invent new canon or reveal new canon this early – but I do not recall Madam Hooch’s first name being Rolanda.
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: Oh, I think that’s right.
Andrew: Okay. It is funny you say that, Eric, because I was like, “Wait, we’re talking about Madam Hooch, right, when you say Rolanda Hooch?”
Eric: Yeah, you highlighted it right… you knew exactly where I was going with this.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: But wait… okay, so Laura, if it rings a bell, that means, darn it, it was probably from somewhere. But it’s not in the books, surely.
Laura: Yeah, I don’t think that it was in the books. It might have been a Pottermore thing.
Eric: Yeah, probably Pottermore. Rolanda Hooch. Okay, my wife is correcting me in real time. Meg says Rolanda is known. All right.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: Well, it’s news to me! That’s what I love the most about this series. It can remind me of things that I never knew before.
Micah: I think a lot of people will know Anton Lesser from Game of Thrones. He played Qyburn.
[Eric laughs]
Micah: And it’ll be very interesting to see him go from a role where he was doing these illegal experiments in service to Cersei Lannister to being the famous wandmaker in the wizarding world.
Eric: Equally creepy, though.
Micah: Eh…
Eric: As we know, Harry is unnerved by him a little bit.
Micah: Well, that was John Hurt’s portrayal. I feel like… it’s funny; I watched the movie Sorcerer’s Stone on the way back from Vegas on the flight, and he does have a creepiness factor to him when he first meets Harry.
Eric: Well, it’s in the book.
Micah: Is it?
Eric: Harry doesn’t know whether he feels comfortable with Ollivander in the book saying that Voldemort did great things. He’s like, “Okay, thanks for the wand. Bye?”
Andrew: Also, Anton Lesser has had a recurring role in Andor, very popular Star Wars series, so people probably recognize him from there as well.
Eric: Oh, yes, yes.
Andrew: Well, the next day, we got our first look at Nick Frost as Hagrid. So two days in a row they released… let’s call them official looks at these actors in these roles. Any thoughts on him? He looks like Hagrid.
Micah: I’m going to reserve… that’s the problem; he looks too much like Robbie Coltrane’s Hagrid, in my opinion. I think they have to change it up a little bit. I think this is a little lacking of creativity.
Andrew: What about this nice button-down shirt?
Micah: [laughs] Hagrid would never go button-down? I mean, Robbie?
Andrew: Yeah, I honestly thought this was pretty nice when I looked at it. [laughs]
Micah: I’m trying to throw a little controversy into this.
Andrew: Oh, okay.
Micah: Instead of us just being like, “Oh, look, Dominic is so cute, and look at all this other…” He looks great, yes, but I do feel like he’s a little too much Robbie Coltrane.
Eric: I feel like there’s going to be these instances where the movie version was particularly book accurate, so that if the show also wants to be book accurate, it’s going to tread on the movie a little. I bet we’re going to see this with Hogwarts. But Nick Frost, I would say, falls into that category where they do seem to have employed the same makeup person who did Robbie Coltrane and put the beard and everything on. He does kind of look like Nick Frost superimposed onto Robbie Coltrane’s Hagrid. I would agree with that.
Laura: I do wonder if this first look is merely just that, a first look. It’s just him in costume without any of the camera tricks they are going to employ to make Hagrid look as massive as we expect Hagrid to look.
Eric: Well, he looks pretty tall in this photo, Laura. His head’s almost cut off by the whole frame.
Andrew: [laughs] No, but I do agree; I think they are shooting him from a slightly lower angle, which is an interesting juxtaposition compared to that one of Dominic, because they’re definitely shooting down. But I see your point, Laura.
Laura: Yeah, and I also will say… I mean, I’ll reserve judgment until we see some actual footage, but I do feel like his… and maybe this is just me being chronically obsessed with hair styling products and stuff. I feel like his hair texture is kind of different. I feel like Robbie Coltrane’s Hagrid had very just bushy hair. It almost looks like his beard has some…
Micah: Volume?
Laura: … more curliness, some more dreadlocks in it, almost. So I feel like they could differentiate this. But I have seen people… I’ve seen some takes that people don’t think he looks…
Eric: Unkempt enough?
Laura: Well, they don’t think he looks bulky enough for Hagrid.
Eric: Mm. It’s time for him to bulk up.
Andrew: Maybe he’s born with it; maybe it’s Rube-line in his hair.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Eric: It does look treated. His beard looks treated.
Micah: I want motorbike Hagrid.
Eric: Right.
Andrew: [laughs] Well, okay, but it’s…
Micah: Tear off the sleeves.
Andrew: They’re probably going for a slightly younger Hagrid, too, right? So there’s that. They’ve been casting younger, it seems.
Eric: Yeah, that’s right.
Andrew: Two – and this is something that surprises me – this photo and the photo of Dominic as Harry, these are not stills from actual scenes.
Eric: They’re not in character.
Laura: Right.
Andrew: It’s like they just got out of their trailers, and surprise, here’s a camera. It’s that type of thing. It surprises me that they’re releasing these as first looks; on the other hand, I think they’re doing it because they’re afraid of paparazzi photos getting out first. And to that point, we did get some paparazzi photos on Thursday. [laughs]
Eric: I love these. Oh, I love these.
Andrew: The Dursleys, baby!
Micah: Is this from To Catch a Predator?
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: The ‘stache is very that, but…
Andrew: That is a… yeah, and the Dursleys are no longer traditional hot. But they still look good. [laughs]
Eric: But they’re traditional book… Petunia is blonde! Who called it? Who called it?
Andrew: Woo!
Eric: Couple episodes ago, baby. I was like, “What if Petunia is blonde?”
Andrew: I want those glasses that both of them have. Those are looks.
Eric: They’re very ’90s.
Laura: I just appreciate that they’re leaning into the ’90s of it all, because you can really see that in, I mean, the hairstyles and the glasses and the clothes.
Eric: We haven’t even shown the tracksuit.
Micah: Oh, wow.
Laura: It’s really nice to see that they’re looking period accurate to the story.
Andrew: Look at Dudley! He’s wearing a tracksuit.
Micah: He looks like he’s out of an episode of Saved by the Bell.
Andrew: This looked to me like an outfit that a crew member at Space Mountain at Disney would wear. [laughs]
Eric: Oh, yeah. Very future, very ’90s. Well, there’s another one of Dudley and I assume Piers. They’re both in little tracksuits, it looks like, so that’s really cool.
Andrew: Isn’t that interesting?
Eric: Yeah, I’m glad to see that there is a Piers character at the zoo. There’s one that isn’t part of this Reddit where they’re outside an enclosure. I think it’s a penguin enclosure or something.
Andrew: Oh, really?
Eric: Yeah, so it’s nice to see that those little moments that I think we were all okay with not being 100% adapted into the film still nevertheless are making it into the TV show. This is already confirmation of that. The first week that we see any footage, we can already pretty well prove that they’re going to be more accurate than the movies were, which is great.
Andrew: Yeah, this is already feeling refreshing to me, right? Because I know we were just saying Hagrid maybe looks a little too similar, but you’ve got to carry some things over, because you don’t want to make it too jarring of a change. It’s going to really throw people off. They’re going to have to walk a delicate line, I think.
Eric: I want to say on the record, too, I don’t have any qualms or concerns about Nick Frost’s acting as Hagrid.
Andrew: Me neither.
Laura: Oh, no.
Eric: I think it’s going to be great.
Laura: He’s going to be great.
Eric: We pick apart the look or whatever, but ultimately, it’s going to be a joy and a half to watch.
Andrew: There was also a report today that the show will be filming at Hemel Hempstead School. This is a primary school, so now there’s speculation that St. Gregory’s Primary School, where Harry originally went, will be appearing in the show as well.
Micah: Wow.
Eric: They’re really doing the thing properly.
Andrew: Let’s hope.
Eric: The only thing that happens at that school is he finds himself on the roof.
Laura: Right. Oh, man, it would be so cool if we got to see some of those offscreen moments that we just get to hear about Harry recollecting. That’s a huge way that this show can differentiate itself.
Andrew: That would be great character development for Harry, getting more of his pre-“You’re a wizard, Harry” life.
Eric: And already more substantial flashbacks than the last four Harry Potter films.
Andrew: [laughs] Yeah. So y’all, we are in it now. This is happening; the show has started. The news is coming quick. I’m going to be curious to see how many of these first looks they unveil over the next few weeks, because like I said, I think they want to stay ahead of these paparazzi photos.
Micah: Well, that’s the other piece that I was going to say, too, is that we live in a totally different world now, where information can just get out so much more readily.
Laura: Right.
Micah: Where it happened at times when the movies were filming back in the early 2000s, but nothing like what exists today with social media. So the production team is going to have to do a good job, and the PR team is going to have to do an even better job of staying on top of those things. But I do like one thing that Camille said in the Discord: “If Dudley doesn’t have any Chicago Bulls gear, we riot.”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Micah: Because the long-standing joke is that throughout all the Harry Potter series existing in the ’90s, there wasn’t one mention of the Chicago Bulls six NBA championships. So there has to be a shot at some point of Dudley in Bulls gear.
Andrew: So everyone, stick with MuggleCast for continuing coverage of the Harry Potter TV show. Like I said, we are in it now. It’s exciting to see it finally underway. We are fully committed to covering the Harry Potter TV show over the next couple years and beyond, so help us go on this journey with you. We invite you to become a member of our community at Patreon.com/MuggleCast. By financially supporting us for as little as $5 a month, you can get instant access to two bonus MuggleCast episodes every month, plus you’ll get ad-free episodes, access to our recording studio, a personal video “Thank you” message from one of the four MuggleCasters, and a lot more. And in a new bonus MuggleCast coming up later this week, we will be reminiscing over the craziest month in Harry Potter fandom history, July 2007, 18 years ago this month, when the Order of the Phoenix movie and…
Micah: Don’t you have a song about that?
Andrew: Yes, “Don’t Let it Be July” was my wizard rock song, because it was going to be the end. July 2007, the Order of the Phoenix movie and the Deathly Hallows book came out within ten days of each other. Crazy time to be a member of the fandom, so we’ll talk about what we were doing all those years ago. If you’re looking for other ways to support us, visit MuggleCastMerch.com to buy official gear, leave us a review on your favorite podcast app, and tell a friend about our show. And you can visit MuggleCast.com for quick access to all of this information, our contact form, and lots more. All right, we’re going to take a quick break, and when we come back, we’ll jump into some voicemails.
[Ad break]
Listener Feedback
Micah: This is going to be a fun mailbag episode. We got a number of different voicemails on a number of different topics, and then our Muggle Mail specifically, we have a wide range of topics there as well, but then we’ll jump into Order of the Phoenix-specific feedback.
Andrew: This first one is from Zacharias Not Smith about Order of the Phoenix issues.
[Voicemail plays]
“Hey y’all, it’s Zacharias Not Smith. I wanted to bring light to one or two of my biggest issues with the entire series that just so happen to be resolved at the end of this book: Sirius’s innocence and proof Voldemort is back. The Pensieve exists, and I’m pretty sure Harry would willingly give over the memories to clear his godfather’s name and to prove the Dark Lord has returned. Thanks for making my Mondays great. Here’s to 700 more.”
[Voicemail ends]
Andrew: Aww. Thanks, Not Smith.
Micah: It’s an excellent point. Harry could easily give his memories over to be viewed in the Pensieve to clear Sirius’s name, to prove Voldemort has returned, but for some reason, nobody thinks that that’s a good idea. Shame on you, Dumbledore.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Well, it’s all about how they can convince themselves that it’s not happening, because if Harry were to give over his untainted memory, they would accuse him of making it up or Dumbledore of having influence over his memory or something like that. They would say, “Fake news! Fake memories!” and not believe it.
Laura: I agree. And in general, I mean – we’ve talked about this before – they could use this at all kinds of trials, and they don’t, for whatever reason.
Eric: It should honestly be the first resort, because very few wizards are skilled enough to edit their memories in any such way. It’s very obvious when Slughorn, a tenured professor, tries to do it, and so it seems foolproof.
Andrew: All right, next voicemail comes from Michelle about Snape’s Worst Memory.
[Voicemail plays]
“Hey, y’all. My name is Michelle, and I’m in Ravenclaw. I wanted to talk about my favorite book and my favorite chapter, Order of the Phoenix, ‘Snape’s Worst Memory.’ I was 15 years old when this book came out, so same age as Harry. I remember relating to a lot of moments with Harry in this book, especially in this chapter where he realizes his dad isn’t perfect. I had that same feeling, same age. Another point I wanted to bring up is Dumbledore had really good foresight in placing Harry with a Muggle family. I mean, for obvious reasons, but I also believe if Harry had grown up in a wizarding family, he would have been spoiled and rude and a bully, like we see here in this chapter with his dad, or with Draco, how Draco treats Harry. Speaking of Draco, I wanted to share my favorite Draco headcanon: He loves to make badges. For example, in the fourth book, he made the ‘Potter stinks; Cedric rules’ badge, and then during this book, he made the ‘Weasley Is Our King’ badge, and how much you want to bet for the Inquisitorial Squad, he asked Umbridge if he could make the badges for that too? Lastly, I’d love to have Julian on more as your guys’ guest. He brings so much to the conversation. I love this episode. I love you guys. Thanks again.”
[Voicemail ends]
Andrew: We agree; he’s a great guy. Him and I were DMing after and he said he’d love to come back anytime, so we will definitely keep that in mind, Michelle.
Eric: He’s great. Really loved his episodes.
Micah: I would like him to be on when I’m on, too, if that’s possible.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Andrew: Yeah, we’ll work on that, Micah.
Eric: You want to meet him someday.
Micah: Yeah, you know, it’d be nice. I know he’s been a great cohost in my absence.
Eric: Well, as to what Michelle was saying, I wish there were a middle ground between leaving Harry with the Muggles who are going to abuse and neglect him and really just give him the worst childhood imaginable, and a wizarding family that’s going to spoil him and not make him a whole person in some hypothetical way. Because Dumbledore seems fine with his decision, but I’m not.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: There has to have been some kind of… the only idea that Harry turned out so good because he was deeply abused is problematic. Not that Michelle is saying that, but I think in popular discourse, kind of viewing it as there had to have been a wizarding family that would have been happy to take in the savior of the wizarding world.
Laura: Yeah, I think… doesn’t Dumbledore bring this up in Chapter 1 of Sorcerer’s Stone? Where he says…
Eric: “He’s better off away from all that.”
Laura: Yeah, “Everyone will know his name. There will probably be a Harry Potter Day.” And I agree that it could have played out to sort of the opposite extreme, where Harry could have maybe ended up being more like James. I guess it becomes a question of, like, is it nature? Is it nurture? But yeah, it definitely sucks that Dumbledore felt like he had to choose between…
Eric: Two extremes?
Laura: Well, yeah. I mean, I was going to say not even just neglect; I mean, outright abuse.
Eric: Yeah, the frying pan misses Harry by inches when he’s 11. Well, and I wonder… by the time that Dumbledore drops Harry off, McGonagall has been watching them all day. She 100% has the measure of exactly who these people are, and Dumbledore still leaves him with them. There were even some Muggles that wouldn’t have abused Harry. It’s really the baggage that Petunia has between her sister that Dumbledore knows especially about, by the way, that led him to believe, “Hey, it’s fine. We’ll just do this.”
Laura: Yeah. Well, there’s also the… go ahead, Micah.
Micah: The family protection. Is that what we were going with here? Yeah, the magical protection that’s in place. He can’t just be placed with anybody, because there’s a very real possibility that Voldemort is still out there, and if he was just randomly hanging out with the Longbottoms or the Weasleys or another wizarding family, he would be at risk.
Eric: Dumbledore should have brought him to his house.
Micah: Well, there’s that. I mean, I would say the next safest place for Harry… Harry could have grown up at Hogwarts.
Andrew: To the point about learning something critical about your parents later on, Michelle, that stood out to me as well. I think when we’re children, we kind of look at… we put our parents on pedestals and we don’t see any faults with them, but as you get older, as you live more life, you start seeing different types of people, and you realize that your parents might not be as perfect as you thought they once were either. So definitely a relatable experience. All right, next voicemail comes from Angela about Grawp.
[Voicemail plays]
“Hi, my name is Angela. I’m known as Gwen Weasley on MNI when that existed, and a proud Ravenclaw. Favorite book is Half-Blood Prince. But now let’s talk about Grawp. So when Hagrid decided to take the children into the forest to meet his giant half-brother, first things first: Why didn’t he just pick them up and carry them? They were getting terribly damaged and slowing him down; he could have carried them. Secondly, this brother of his has been destroying him for months. What was going through his mind when he said, ‘Let’s have the 15-year-olds now deal with this, these people who are a third my size. I’m barely surviving it, but let’s put it on the kids.’ What was he thinking?”
[Voicemail ends]
Micah: He wasn’t.
Laura: Yeah, very good questions. [laughs]
Andrew: And we were talking about this a little bit, too, right? Probably after this voicemail came in. It’s just insane to think that Hagrid would want to put 15-year-olds in charge of taking care of Grawp. It’s irresponsible. It makes no sense. It’s putting the kids and Grawp in danger; it’s arguably putting the rest of the school in danger if the kids mishandle Grawp, which, of course they would. It’s just such a messy situation. Such a bad idea all around.
Eric: Yeah, especially because Hagrid had not really made any inroads or successes to that point of training Grawp literally at all. The fact that Hagrid couldn’t even get himself out of harm’s way, and he’s the closest to them. He thinks introducing the kids for one minute or five minutes is going to breed that level of familiarity that he has with Hagrid after six months? No. You could say he’s desperate, and he is, but not only does that not excuse it, it also… there’s no reason he needs to be desperate. He brought this whole situation on himself. So Hagrid having Grawp here is really his own making, 100%. Every one of his problems is his fault.
Andrew: Second to last voicemail today comes from Karin.
[Voicemail plays]
“Hey, MuggleCast. This is Karin the Hufflepuff, and I’m sending this message because on this reread of the Order of the Phoenix, I have been really struck by how much Harry feels drawn to teaching. We see him really looking forward to the DA lessons and planning the sessions really thoughtfully, and it just made me wonder why Harry became an Auror. Was it because he wanted to, or was he pushed into it because of all of his experience fighting Voldemort and the Death Eaters? He certainly has a tendency for saving people, so it doesn’t seem completely out of the realm of possibility for him to be an Auror, but it’s just something that I’ve been wondering about. And then that thought led me to wonder about the other characters’ careers, and whether we think each of them ended up in the career that makes the most sense. So for example, we know that Hermione is dedicated to making change, particularly around rights for house-elves and other magical creatures, but is politics and becoming Minister for Magic the best career for her to do that? And we’ve certainly seen in the Muggle world that politicians can’t always be relied upon to make changes that benefit the people. So anyway, I was partly inspired by a previous Muggle Mail episode where you re-Sorted the Weasleys into different Houses, and I’m wondering if it might be fun to do something similar by discussing how well or how poorly various characters’ careers suit their interests and personalities. And if you could change characters’ careers, would you change them? And what would you change them to? I’d love to hear your thoughts, and thank you as always for all you do.”
[Voicemail ends]
Laura: Ooh, this is a really good question.
Eric: I love this question. Thank you, Karin, for sending it.
Andrew: I like Harry in the Auror role, because as we’ve been joking, as Hermione brings up, he has a saving-people thing, and it’s just in his heart to help others, so being an Auror makes sense. Now, you could say being a teacher is also a way to help others, but Harry seems… Harry is a more adventurous type. He’s a Gryffindor. He wants to be out there; he wants to be on the move.
Eric: Maybe he just wanted to get paid well, so he became a cop instead of a teacher.
Andrew: Yeah! Maybe he had enough of Hogwarts. He didn’t want another second of that school and all the security nightmares that exist.
Eric: It’s interesting that Harry and Neville are often compared to one another. Neville does teach, so it’s interesting to see Neville follow that path in lieu of Harry. I think being an Auror – we talked about this during “Career Advice” – but it’s the only thing Harry ever thought of doing, because literally the only person that ever said to him, “You would be a good this-that,” is the guy who said, “You’d be a good Auror.” I think that he understands exactly what made Lupin a great teacher, and so Harry, too, genuinely cares about people, or gets to know people enough, the way that Lupin would always know a little tidbit about his student to lift them up. So I think Harry has the qualities to become a really good teacher. As for what Ron should have been instead, or any of the other characters… Hermione as Minister of Magic probably is spot on. [laughs] But Ron, yeah, I don’t know. Doesn’t he at one point help out with Fred and George’s shop? I think that’s a pretty good fit for him.
Laura: Yeah, he does. But he later becomes an Auror, right?
Eric: Yeah, with Harry.
Laura: That always kind of surprised me a little bit. And I like Ron; I like his character, but I just don’t know that we got to see the full character development that took him there.
Eric: What he should have done is followed in his father’s footsteps, interfering with Muggle things by basically becoming a craftsman for new Wizard’s Chess sets.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: That would have been really… because he’s strategic, right? This is the Ron character trait that died after Book 1. I’d love to see that kind of re-found in his adult life.
Micah: Or just become a professional Wizard Chess player. That would be…
Andrew: Oooh.
Laura: Yeah, presumably they have that.
Eric: Like The Queen’s Gambit but with Ron? Yeah.
Andrew: “Knight to E5!”
Micah: I tend to agree about Harry becoming the Auror. I think it’s a little bit too much on the nose. It’s something that he aspired to, certainly, while he was at Hogwarts, but he caught arguably the Darkest wizard ever, so really, what else is there for him to do, to aspire to within his career?
Eric: Where do you go from there?
Andrew: When you peak, yeah.
Micah: I like the idea of him teaching. I feel like – as was pointed out by Karin – he does an amazing job leading Dumbledore’s Army at a very young age, and I think there would be something to the fact that he’s the one that actually steps into the role that’s finally… we’ll talk about this a little later; the curse is finally broken on the Defense Against the Dark Arts position, and it’s Harry who steps in to fill that role that Voldemort was never able to aspire to.
Laura: Yeah, I love that. I do tend to agree that Harry becoming an Auror really does feel a little too on the nose. I think I said when we were chatting about the “Career Advice” chapter that it kind of feels like Harry just chose that because he didn’t know what else to pick, so he just picked what was familiar to him and what he’s always done.
Andrew: Maybe he wanted to become an Auror so he could be within the Ministry so he could continue keeping an eye on them. And I know Hermione becomes the Minister for Magic, but maybe he doesn’t trust the Ministry and just wants to have some sort of hand in it.
Laura: It is kind of shocking – and this will be the last thing I say on this – to see the entire trio end up working for the Ministry after the events of Book 7, because I would imagine that those events would create a lot of distrust for the Ministry, and that people wouldn’t be super excited to work there.
Andrew: All right, well, final voicemail today is from Kayla about… us?
[Voicemail plays]
“Hey, MuggleCast. I just wanted to tell y’all about how excited I am because my city that I live in is putting on a Harry Potter fair next weekend, and I’m so excited to go. And it’s going on on June 7, which, I mean, can you get a better date? The seventh? Of course I’m going to go! And I’m very proud to say that I’m going to be sporting all of my Hufflepuff gear. I have a bright yellow Hufflepuff shirt; I have a Hufflepuff purse; I even have Tonks’s wand that I’m going to carry with me. And I bought a MuggleCast baseball hat because I’m going to listen to y’all the whole day, and I wanted to advertise that, ‘Hey, there’s a Harry Potter podcast that you should listen to.’ And I’m also going to take my stuffed Hedwig with me, because she deserves to go. Anyway, love y’all, and thanks for the podcast. Bye.”
[Voicemail ends]
Andrew: We love you too, Kayla. That’s great!
Laura: Thanks, Kayla.
Andrew: Thanks for representing! I thought she was ready to board the Hogwarts Express with the noise we were hearing in the background.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: I thought she was going to be like, “I’m wearing my MuggleCast hat to Hogwarts, everybody! Representing!” We’ll take one more break today, and then we’ll open up the written mailbag. We’ll be right back.
[Ad break]
Andrew: Time for a variety of different emails about recent episodes; I believe Micah is calling this segment “Potpourri.” The first one is from SquibMatthew on Harry’s obsession with Dumbledore.
“Hey, y’all. Is it me or does Harry’s obsession with Dumbledore seem odd? I get that he’s the father figure he never had when he was growing up, but how much time do they ever spend together? If you add up all their moments together in the first five books, how long is it? Hours? At most, a day. Isn’t it weird that, in Book 5, he’s overwhelmed by the fact a man (he’d maybe spent a day or two with over a half decade) isn’t looking at him? Just wondering your thoughts, SquibMatthew.”
Laura: I mean, maybe they haven’t spent that much time together, but the time they’ve spent together has been pretty important. I mean, there’s never been… I can’t think of a time where Harry and Dumbledore had an exchange that was anything less than noteworthy.
Eric: Right.
Laura: They pop off the page for a reason.
Eric: They’re critical, too. Harry is not… I reject the idea that Harry is obsessed with Dumbledore. Dumbledore has critical information that’s necessary for Harry, and he’s withholding it from him. The whole reason that Harry is concerned that Dumbledore is not paying attention to him is because Dumbledore has the answers and is choosing not to divulge them, answers that would give Harry a significant amount of peace of mind. So there’s no peace in all of Book 5 until Harry can actually be leveled with by Dumbledore, and in all the years prior, Dumbledore has held all the cards and routinely put Harry at risk. So I wouldn’t say Harry is obsessed with him at all; I would say Dumbledore has put himself directly…
Micah: It’s the other way around.
Eric: Yeah, that’s right.
Micah: I would say, too, that it’s not just that Dumbledore isn’t looking at Harry; he is outright ignoring him. He is doing nothing to make contact with Harry, even when Harry is trying to make contact with him, and he isolates him to a point of Harry and Sirius’s own detriment by the end of this book. So yeah, I don’t necessarily agree with the whole “He’s only known him for a couple days in total.” Dumbledore is a very important figure in Harry’s life.
Andrew: Who’s running Hogwarts, who has a plan to fight Voldemort. He’s not just any old guy there.
Eric: Yeah, their destinies intersect in no small way. To Laura’s point, every conversation has been noteworthy. You ever had anybody give you the silent treatment? You ever try not to think about that person when they’re giving you the silent treatment? It doesn’t work.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: So this explains Harry’s behavior, I think, in Book 5.
Micah: Right, 150-year-old behaving like a 5-year-old.
Eric: Yeah, Dumbledore! Gosh, grow up, man.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: Our next email comes from Jen.
“Hey y’all, I’ve been thinking about something that you said earlier in this book and I can’t decide if it’s stuck because it’s so brilliant my mind is blown, or if it’s because I just want more of your thoughts to wrap my brain around it!”
This is tremendously kind.
“Y’all were talking about how Dumbledore used the DADA position as a signal that Voldemort was still alive, because if he was dead, the curse would end.”
This is brilliant.
“Is that true? All those Egyptian curses Bill breaks for a living are cast by wizards long dead… right? Or do you think Dumbledore had some way to know the difference in the types of curses? You also briefly alluded to what exactly it was that was ‘holding the curse’ there but didn’t stay on the topic long, so I wanted to bring you back to that too. Is it some part of the building like the DADA classroom or some hidden object… or just lazy writing by the author who hadn’t established all the rules yet? Thanks for your thoughts!”
Laura: I think that last point is definitely a possibility, [laughs] because there are a few things about the way magic works in this world that we don’t really get to understand why it works the way it does; we’re just supposed to assume that it is the way it is.
Eric: I seem to remember talking about this and saying it wasn’t like Voldemort uttered an incantation; there wasn’t a specific spell that made this happen to the DADA position, but it was like a force or a will that comes out of somebody as powerful as Voldemort. Regarding the Egyptians, I feel like those curses were very strictly around “Don’t desecrate this tomb,” and so those could last for longer. They’re less circumstantial. It’s like, “We’re going to cast something that lasts, that doesn’t have any variables except nobody walk in here,” and those curses would last a lot longer than someone’s own mortality. But something like Voldemort’s constantly checking into that role, there’s a hundred different ways somebody could fail in that role or be gone within a year; that’s going to be the kind of magic that lasts only as long as the caster is alive, is my guess. Does that make sense?
Micah: Yeah, I’m pretty sure that the author had said that the curse was broken once Voldemort had died.
Eric: Which, thank God, right? [laughs]
Laura: I think that’s right.
Andrew: Yeah, and I think there could just be different types of curses. There’s Egyptian curses that can last long after somebody has died, and then there’s this type of curse where it’s there whether or not they’re alive. It’s just… there’s no one rule when it comes to curses, I think.
Eric: It is a good thought, though, if you consider that there is magic around from thousands of years ago that’s still active. That’s cool.
Laura: Arista reached out to us about Rita Skeeter. They say,
“Hey guys! Listening to your episode ‘Keep Your Friends Close and Your Beetles Closer’ currently, and I think it’s important to note that Rita does not in fact turn over a new leaf. For one thing, it’s Hermione in Order of the Phoenix that asks Harry if he’s ready to tell the public the truth, and in Deathly Hallows, Rita writes a whole book exposing Dumbledore (granted, lots of things in there aren’t untrue, but could have been revealed in a much softer way). Love the show.”
Yeah, I think that’s a good thing to bring up, actually, that Rita never really changes, despite Hermione psychotically keeping her in a jar for two weeks, three weeks.
Andrew: And I’ll take the blame for this one; it may have been me that says Rita turned a new leaf. I’m just thinking of that because I think of the video game Animal Crossing: New Leaf, so I’ve liked using that phrase.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Andrew: But let’s just say that Rita behaves differently after the events of Goblet of Fire. [laughs]
Eric: She has a redemption, yeah. Even if she reverts in Deathly Hallows to do the Dumbledore thing, that’s obviously a very important part of the plot of Book 7, is that somebody uncovers all the lies Dumbledore told when he was alive, because he’s no longer alive and somebody needs to give that information to the world. Why not Rita? But I do think that Rita has either a tendency now to think about things a second time – whereas she normally would have just been her awful self in Book 4, now she might think twice about it – or at the very least, the Quibbler situation redeemed Rita. So if she went back to being awful afterwards, great, but I do see this still as a redemptive moment where she had the choice, at least, to turn over a new leaf.
Laura: You know what, though? I think that she did what she did in Deathly Hallows because the circumstances allowed it, because remember, Hermione threatened to expose her for being an illegal Animagus, but by the time you get to Book 7, that almost doesn’t matter anymore. That doesn’t even rate on the top list of priorities; they’ve got way bigger fish to fry, and I think she knew that and took advantage of it. I think she’s an opportunist at the end of the day.
Micah: 100%. And I think the success that she did have from the Quibbler emboldened her even more. That story and the stories she wrote about Harry re-elevated her status and positioned her well enough to write what she did in Deathly Hallows. So even though there was good that came out of Harry’s article with the Quibbler, there was also good that came out of it for Rita as well.
Eric: That’s a good point.
Micah: All right, our next email is from Ollie on Harry’s binding magical contract in Goblet of Fire.
“Hey MuggleCast, this is Ollie, a Slytherin from Edinburgh, Scotland! My favorite Harry Potter book has always been the Goblet of Fire, but there’s something about it that’s never sat well with me – the binding magical contract. You know what I’m talking about! It just never made sense that it’s swept under the rug with no explanation given. My headcanon is that Dumbledore WANTED Harry in the tournament, and not only that, but he asked Mad-Eye Fakey to make it happen. This is how I think it played out: Voldy told Barty Crouch, Jr. to make sure Harry is in the tournament, but when Barty Crouch, Jr. goes to Hogwarts as Mad-Eye Fakey, he’s surprised to find Dumbledore asking him to do the exact same thing.”
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: “Just my luck!”
“Dumbledore has a long history of putting Harry in dangerous situations to test his abilities and prepare him for the journey ahead, and it seems to me that he wouldn’t let the tournament go to waste – it’s the perfect opportunity to put him to the test. To me, this explains why Dumbledore never goes into detail about the magical contract (it’s all a big lie to get the other headmasters off his back), and why he never makes any serious attempt to find out who’s responsible. Notably Dumbledore asks Harry if he asked an older student to put his name in the goblet – something Dumbledore knows full well isn’t possible. It’s all performative for the other people in the room. My bet is it made Fakey’s job a lot easier throughout the year, and Dumbledore never suspected he was an imposter until he takes Harry away after the third task.
When Dumbledore interrogates Barty Crouch, Jr., he doesn’t ask about the goblet. He wouldn’t want Barty Crouch, Jr. to reveal he was partly to blame. Dumbledore never tells Harry, as he was devastated he got double-crossed by Barty Crouch, Jr. and played straight into Voldemort’s hand. It could even be another reason Dumbledore is distant with Harry and extra protective of him in the next book. What do you think of my theory? Too mad, or does it explain the biggest plot hole in Goblet of Fire? Love the show and thanks for everything you do.”
Andrew: You know, I might be able to go along on this ride, but your point simply being that Dumbledore has a long history of putting Harry in dangerous situations to test his abilities, and that’s why he did it? That’s not enough for me. There has to be more there for Dumbledore, another reason for Dumbledore to have done this, because I don’t think that’s enough. This is a very dangerous situation for Harry to be in. That’s kind of the whole point of the tournament.
Eric: What is that saying? That God does not play dice with the universe? Dumbledore absolutely plays dice with Harry Potter all the time.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: But I still don’t really necessarily buy that Dumbledore wanted Harry in the tournament and conspired to make it happen. After all, Dumbledore is a big picture planner, and Dumbledore 100% knows that Harry has to be the one to defeat Voldemort, and so he’s not going to go put Harry in this tournament where a dragon can roast him, or mermaids can drown him, or hedges can grab him and any of this other stuff, and kill Harry prior to him getting his chance to save the wizarding world. So it’s just too reckless for me. Dumbledore is a reckless character; it’s too reckless for me to buy into with Dumbledore’s motive here. I think that I’m going to prefer to believe that the stated goal of the Triwizard Tournament is what it was, which is to say that they just thought the Triwizard tournament and hosting it would actually be a welcome relief from all the Dementor stuff the previous year, which had to do about Harry Potter in a big way, and they really just wanted people to be able to take their mind off the nonsense. And then when it was Harry in the tournament, they can’t do that, because here we go again.
Andrew: All right, well, let’s move on to some Order of the Phoenix feedback now. This is from Jerri on Snape baiting Harry.
“Hi, you all. Just listened to the Chapter by Chapter covering Harry’s first Occlumency lesson. I would like to point out something for you folks to watch for and think about.”
And this was sent in before we hit the “Snape’s Worst Memory” chapter.
“We know that Harry watches Snape put some memories in the Pensieve before the lesson. As I recall, Harry sees this happen before EVERY lesson. AND at least two times during the lessons, Snape walks out of the room during a lesson, leaving Harry alone with the Pensieve containing the memories that we are to assume that Snape didn’t want Harry to see. Once when Trelawney is being fired, and once when Montague is being found in a toilet. And we know from other parts of the books that Snape considers Harry to be a rule breaker and ‘line crosser,’ nosy, and so on. No matter how much of a hurry Snape was in to investigate the disturbances, WHY did he not push Harry out of his office in front of him and at least shut if not lock the door? Since I don’t think Snape is stupid, my theory is that he really WANTED Harry to see at least some of those memories to undermine his feelings for James, or for some other reason. I suppose it was just that the author wanted Harry to see those memories and couldn’t think of any other way to make it happen, but I prefer my theory. Snape is intelligent and also suspicious of Harry. Leaving Harry alone in his office with the Pensieve full of memories ONCE might be an error, but doing it two times seems like a plan. So please keep this in mind for the next several chapters as this thread is followed. Jerri, a 68-year-old Hufflepuff.”
Eric: Aww.
Andrew: Thank you, Jerri. I like the idea, but Snape is so angry at Harry for breaking into his memories. And maybe to your point, Snape is angry because Harry saw them, and it might be hitting Snape just how bad it was that James treated him, so maybe that’s why he’s angry, but what worse to take away is that Snape is livid because Harry violated Snape’s trust and privacy. So not a bad idea, but personally, I don’t think Snape planned this.
Eric: I think it’s a good example of Snape being human in that he can make a mistake like this. This seems like a very obvious security flaw or whatever.
Andrew: [imitating Snape] “Everybody has those days.”
Eric: [laughs] But I do think that he’s also counting, on some level, on the fact that he terrifies Harry, and he terrifies his students, and so no student would really ever dare… even though Harry had the opportunity, and heck, even a morbid curiosity about this sort of thing, I don’t think Snape actually considered that he would do it. How wild is that? Because as much as he keeps going on about Harry being just like his father and stuff, it’s more of a James moment than a Harry moment by a mile.
Laura: Well, we got a somewhat similar email from Matt, who wrote in about maybe Dumbledore’s larger plan when it comes to Snape leading these Occlumency lessons. Matt says,
“Howdy, ya’ll! I just listened to Episode 703, ‘Snape’s True Colors,’ and I wanted to share my personal headcanon about Snape and the Occlumency lessons he’s giving to Harry. You keep talking about how he’s a bad teacher for this subject and Dumbledore should absolutely know better than to put him in charge of it. Which should be true. But I think Dumbledore knew exactly what he was doing, because Snape isn’t there specifically to teach Harry anything. Just a few weeks before this, Harry was shown to have a definitive connection to Voldemort during Nagini’s attack of Mr. Weasley. So what Snape has been tasked with is probing Harry’s mind to see how compromised he may or may not be. And beyond that, based on how the lessons continue to go, I could argue that Snape is actively trying to weaken Harry’s mind. It seems possible to me that Dumbledore would not hesitate to have Snape use the mind connection as bait to force Voldemort into making a move. Snape could even be on orders to tell Voldemort that he’s doing this to Harry. It’s not a perfect headcanon, but it resonates with me because I absolutely see Dumbledore trying to use this connection between Harry and Voldemort as a tool rather than just getting rid of it. I love the podcast and I’ve been listening to it for a few years now, and I’m looking forward to all the great episodes to come. Thank y’all for everything!”
Eric: This next one comes from Eilidh on Hermione’s treatment of Firenze.
“Hey y’all, I love the podcast and am really enjoying the Chapter by Chapter reread! Just listened to your episode about ‘The Centaur and the Sneak’ and wanted to share a different take on Hermione’s comments about Firenze. I never read it as Hermione dismissing Firenze’s value or ability to teach – I think she is dismissing Lavender and Parvati’s description of him as gorgeous, and their assertion that Hermione would want to attend his class simply for the eye candy. Hermione values classes by their academic content irrespective of the attractiveness of the teacher, and she has already dismissed Divination as an academic subject. I see where you were coming from about the ‘horse’ comments being offensive, but I really don’t think she was trying to say he’d be a bad teacher – just that he’d be a bad choice as a romantic interest. In the Muggle world, I always found it really weird when school classmates had crushes on teachers – the age difference and power imbalance is a bit icky – and I view Lavender and Parvati’s comments similarly, with the added magical complication of inter-species differences. Thanks for everything you do for the show, you’re all amazing, Eilidh.”
I love this. This is great. I think this works for me. What about you guys?
Micah: Nope, nope.
Eric: No?
Laura: I mean, Hermione totally has a crush on Lockhart…
Micah: I was going to say the same thing.
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: … and she cuts him so much slack.
Eric: But she did the year before she even met Trelawney. That was three years ago at this point.
Micah: But this isn’t about Trelawney.
Eric: This is about Hermione growing up. Hermione hasn’t had a crush on a teacher… okay, say that Parvati and Lavender are goading Hermione into taking this class because the teacher’s a hunk, right? Which is basically what they’re doing. Hermione has grown from her experience with Lockhart; she thinks they should too. It’s like, “Girls, that was so three years ago.” And also, after Lockhart is when Hermione dismisses Divination as an academic subject, and then two years after that is where we are now. So I think this fully tracks for me.
Laura: Yeah, I mean, I feel like she could have dismissed that motivation for taking the class without calling Firenze a horse. [laughs]
Andrew: Yeah. And I mean…
Laura: Again, she’s 15, so she is acting her age, I think.
Eric: Specificity matters.
Andrew: Eilidh is also coming at this as somebody who found it weird when school classmates had crushes on teachers. I think that was quite common and normal for people. I mean, I had crushes on school teachers growing up.
Laura: Oh, yeah.
Andrew: I feel like I knew a lot of people who did. But that said, I don’t really think it was about that either. [laughs] I don’t think it was about the attraction there, necessarily.
Eric: Well, I think that it makes perfect sense to me for Hermione to be skeptical or turned off of the idea that Lavender and Parvati are ogling one of their teachers, because she just sees that as a really girly thing to do, but it’s very beneath where Hermione thinks she is.
Micah: Yeah, but I mean, I’m just looking at what is said in this email, and Eilidh says that Hermione values classes by their academic content irrespective of the attractiveness of the teacher, and that’s just not true.
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: I tend to think that she was looking for any excuse to downplay Divination as a subject.
Micah: I agree. It’s the way she refers to Firenze, though. It would be one thing to refer to him… or it would be one thing for her to position it to Lavender and Parvati as saying, “Oh, let’s not base the success of this course on the teacher’s attractiveness or unattractiveness.” She refers to him as a horse and a four-legged creature. That’s pretty insulting.
Andrew: Yeah, and she also could have just said to them, “I don’t see what you see in him,” something a little less insulting than calling him a horse.
Eric: Yeah. Well, and she knows that they’re… I mean, they’re the Divination girlies too, right? They’re the ones who are always up Sybill Trelawney’s behind.
Micah: For somebody who is actively campaigning in this book for the liberation of house-elves to be so crude towards another wizarding race just seems off to me.
Eric: I do think, as I think I said during the episode, it’s a consequence of the fact that the chapter opens with that off-handed remark, and I don’t think it was ever meant to be focused on the way that we have done. Very rightly so, because it’s an offensive statement, but I think it was only ever meant to be a way in which to skip three weeks of time.
Laura: Yeah, and I mean, also, Hermione is 15. We all said crappy stuff when we were 15.
Andrew: Yep. I think we talked about that at the time as well. And Hermione does have these moments every once in a while where it’s like, “Damn, Hermione. What?”
Eric: It’s true.
Micah: Like locking somebody in a jar.
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: That she does after Book 2. Yeah, that’s more recent.
Micah: Right. Well, speaking of questionable acts, this next email is from Bev on the Marauders’ treatment of Snape.
“Dear Andrew, Laura, Eric, and Micah. Listening to the podcast this week, I was struck by something, and I’m not really sure why I hadn’t made any connection till now. When the Marauders decide to turn Snape upside down just ‘for a laugh’ (though we know full well it’s actually bullying), it felt horribly similar to the scene in Goblet of Fire when the Death Eaters toy with the Roberts family at the…”
[laughs] She says Quizzitch.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: Tried to trick me there.
“… Quidditch World Cup. This put their antics in a disturbing new light for me. We want to see them on the side of right and as a fun group of students to be around, but when they do this – even if it is to a character we don’t much like – I think some reassessment is called for.”
Eric: Yep.
Andrew: Yeah, so what Bev is saying is it is Death Eater behavior what they’re doing there? Is that basically her point?
Eric and Laura: Yeah.
Laura: Something that struck me when we read that this time around is that James says, if I recall correctly, towards the end of the memory, “Who wants to see me take Snivelly’s pants off?” And we’re all American here, so I think when we read this initially, we just thought he was talking about trousers. But we’ve since learned that in the UK, pants just means underpants, so I mean, he was really trying to expose Snape much in the same way that the Death Eaters at the World Cup were turning the Muggle woman upside down to cause her nightdress to fall and expose her. I think it’s a great callout.
Micah: I think there’s a slight difference between what happens here. I think certainly there’s bullying in both cases, but I think there’s even more of a malicious intent behind what the Death Eaters are doing versus what the Marauders are doing. I think the Marauders… and I guess you could say both are having “fun,” but I would like to think better of the Marauders. But I know it’s hard to justify their actions. You can say they’re just kids, but…
Andrew: Well, that’s what I was just going to say. I don’t think you need to try and think better of the Marauders as kids. As adults, yeah, definitely think better of them, but as kids, well, we don’t owe them anything. All right, next email is from Molly on racism in Harry Potter.
“Hey, MuggleCasters! I really enjoyed your discussion of Chapter 28 and Julian’s comments on Snape’s casting and racism. One thing I noticed in that discussion is that you talked about how prejudice is based on blood status and not race in the books. However, in Order of the Phoenix, Pansy Parkinson does mock Angelina Johnson’s braids in a way that does feel racist. I’m curious whether the new series will have more of an intersectional approach to Snape and any other characters who are played by actors of color. It seems odd to ignore race altogether, especially when many characters (like Harry) grew up in the Muggle world. Curious about your thoughts! Also, I couldn’t help thinking about what we might think if we saw an isolated incident of Harry and Draco from Draco’s perspective, if we would judge Harry similar to how we judge James.”
Micah: talking about the scene in Half-Blood Prince, I’m assuming, right?
Laura: Oh, Sectumsempra?
Andrew: Yeah. I mean, this TV show has many opportunities to address lots of real world issues, and I hope that the show does dig in a little bit to bits of racism we saw in the series, or just trying to create storylines that reflect what’s going on in the world today or back in the ’90s.
Eric: Yeah, agreed.
Laura: Sure. All right, our next email comes from Lorelai, who writes in on Voldemort gaining access to the Ministry. Lorelai says,
“Hello, Harry Potter friends! I have been rereading the books with y’all since last year, and I recently had a thought about Order of the Phoenix. A large part of the plot is that Voldemort needs Harry to go get the Prophecy, but HELLO! They are magical. Why can’t Voldemort shrink down with Reducto, and go in someone’s pocket? As far as I remember, the only ‘security’ in the Ministry is when Harry had to check in his wand, but he could shrink his wand down with him. All this would not be a problem if the Ministry was not such a SECURITY NIGHTMARE! Thanks for listening; I would love to hear y’all’s thoughts.”
Andrew: Lorelai, do you want this to get all Honey, I Shrunk the Kids up in the series?
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: It’s a fun thought, but they have to draw some boundaries, otherwise it gets too easy, I think, with tricks like this, as good of a trick as it may have been. That would have been fun, seeing them shrink in the Harry Potter series, actually. [laughs] And then they get stepped on by Filch or Hagrid.
Laura: Oh, God.
Eric: I think it certainly might be a magic that nobody thought to protect against, so for that… nobody thinks about that. I mean, besides the Honey, I Shrunk the ____ movie series, and Ant-Man now, I rarely at all think about miniaturization as a tactic. [laughs]
Micah: And I think we’ll wrap up today with a Chicken Soup from Jessica, who says,
“Hi everyone! I am back after a 15 year hiatus! Let me explain.”
[Andrew gasps]
“I am on maternity leave and have been listening to the Harry Potter audiobooks again to keep me company. After each reread (or re-listen), I always feel a bit empty and sad when the journey is over. After finishing the series this time, I suddenly remembered MuggleCast! I was telling my husband about you and thought I’d do a Google search for nostalgia’s sake. I was thrilled when I saw you’re still podcasting! I discovered you in 2009, as a 17-year-old with an iPod Classic and no one to discuss Harry Potter with. I remember downloading new episodes from iTunes on my computer and click/dragging them onto my iPod. You brought so much comfort back then, and you’re doing it again now! I’ve jumped back to the beginning of your current reread series and have loved it! It feels like reuniting with old friends. Also, I naturally creeped your social media and loved catching up on where you’re at in life 15 years later! Finally, for fun I dug out my iPod Classic and I still have a few of your old episodes on there. Looks like I had finished up to Episode 198, with the old cover photo and all. 🙂 Thanks again for always being there. I love being back! Jessica.”
Andrew: Aww. Thank you so much, Jessica, and welcome back. It’s hard to see in my camera shot, but I do keep my iPod Classic behind me to remind us where we started. This thing will power on if it is plugged in, but if you unplug it after it charges, it’ll last five seconds and then die. But that’s okay; I’m glad that I still have my iPod Classic. These things rocked when we were young, right?
Eric: I have mine too; it’s a fifth generation, and it’s embroidered or embossed on the back and says, “Eric the Caption Man.”
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Andrew: Yeah, that’s very sweet, Jessica. Brings back good memories.
Laura: It really does.
Andrew: Thank you so much. And I’m thinking there’s going to be that new audiobook series of Harry Potter with all the different actors, right? Coming out… last we heard, I thought it was later this year. We’ll see. Maybe it’s going to be next year, at this point.
Eric: Maybe they’ll push it back a year to the TV show’s original release date.
Andrew: [laughs] Maybe. That would be a nice deal for us fans, but maybe that will have more people coming back to us or discovering us, because they’ll want chapter analysis after listening to what we can only hope are excellent performances of these chapters. We will see. Well, thanks, everybody, for submitting feedback. We love receiving your feedback; we love reading it all. We try to include as much as possible on the show. Even if we didn’t include it today, we are reading and listening to all your feedback, so thank you so much. Please do keep it coming. If you have any feedback about today’s discussion or any episode, don’t forget you can visit MuggleCast.com to submit some feedback. You can use our contact form there, or you can send an email to MuggleCast@gmail.com; that’s also the email address where you can send us a voice memo, like several people did at the top of today’s episode. And next week on MuggleCast, for real this time, Order of the Phoenix Chapter 33, “Fight and Flight.” No Quizzitch this week because it is a Muggle Mail episode. If you’re looking for more podcasting from the four of us, listen to our other shows, What the Hype?! and Millennial, and here in MuggleCast world, like I said earlier in the episode, we’ll have a new bonus MuggleCast out later this week, in which we reminisce over July 2007, which was the craziest month in Harry Potter fandom history. That was when Order of the Phoenix the movie and Deathly Hallows the book came out within ten days of one another. Don’t forget to visit MuggleCast.com for all the information that you need about the show, and that does it for this week’s episode. Thanks, everyone, for listening. I’m Andrew.
Eric: I’m Eric.
Micah: I’m Micah.
Laura: And I’m Laura.
Andrew: Bye, everyone!
Laura and Micah: Bye.