Transcript for MuggleCast Episode #718, Bella! My Loca! (OOTP Chapter 36, The Only One He Ever Feared)
Show Intro
[Show music plays]
Andrew Sims: Welcome to MuggleCast, your weekly ride into the world of Harry Potter. I’m Andrew.
Eric Scull: I’m Eric.
Micah Tannenbaum: I’m Micah.
Laura Tee: And I’m Laura.
Andrew: And the four of us are your Harry Potter friends, talking about the books and the movies and the upcoming TV show, so make sure you press that follow button in your favorite podcast app, and that way you’ll never miss an episode with your Potter people. And this week, we’re discussing Order of the Phoenix Chapter 36, “The Only One He Ever Feared.” That would be Albus Dumbledore, thank you very much.
News
Andrew: I mentioned the TV show; we do have a bit of a update there. The Harry Potter TV show has revealed who will be playing some of the Weasley family. Tristan Harland is going to play Fred Weasley, Gabriel Harland is going to play George Weasley, Ruari Spooner is Percy, and Gracie Cochrane is Ginny. Any thoughts on these? We got a cute selfie of them with the actor who’s playing Ron, who is Alistair Stout. They’re all redheads.
Eric: They’re very cute. They look like a family; I’m glad to see a picture of them bonding. I’ve seen comments that are like, “This is exactly how I picture them in my head in the books,” and it’s really nice. What I loved about this the most, though, is that Chris Rankin had a really sweet story mention of this, where he talked about it being 25 years since his casting, and that yesterday… these other Weasleys, another Percy was cast, and he said, “So the baton is passed,” and that was really lovely.
Andrew: Oh, that is sweet.
Micah: It is great to see the Weasley family starting to come together; I know we got the casting from Molly not that long ago. But we’re still lacking a few of the Weasley clan: Charlie, Bill, Arthur. I know none of them really make an appearance till, earliest, Chamber of Secrets, but given that we got some characters already confirmed that are in Chamber of Secrets, like Malfoy and Fudge, can we expect an Arthur casting in the not-too-distant future?
Eric: Oooh.
Andrew: I imagine all these people are already cast, because they have to screen test against one another and all that.
Eric: Right.
Andrew: And they’ve got a lot of people to reveal, so I think they’re kind of just taking their time. My theory as to why they released these Weasley castings now is maybe they are going to be filming some public King’s Cross scenes in the weeks ahead, and maybe they want to get out ahead of that. That’s my best guess, though.
Laura: Yeah, I mean, they’re going to have to do Charlie for the first season, are they not?
Eric: Well, his friends show up, right? But not…
Laura: Oh, that’s right. It’s not him; it’s his friends.
Eric: I want the casting announcement for Charlie’s friends from Romania.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: Give it now! I’ve been waiting!
Andrew: Everybody but Charlie.
[Laura laughs]
Micah: Eric, I wanted to ask: Who do we think is going to be the first cast member that we get that…?
Eric: Arrested for marijuana use? Sorry, that’s so funny.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Micah: That did not appear in the Harry Potter movies. Which character are we going to get?
Eric: Ooh, this is something we could put money on.
Micah: We could.
Andrew: Yeah, put some Galleons on it.
Eric: It should be Peeves, but I’m not betting on Peeves.
Micah: And did we get a Piers Polkiss in Sorcerer’s Stone?
Eric: Well, no, but there have been… that may already be… because I’ve seen him in promo or behind-the-scenes photos.
Micah: Yeah, who do we get officially, though? Not just in paparazzi photos. Yeah, we should maybe think about putting some Galleons down on that.
Eric: Interesting.
Andrew: That could be a good bonus MuggleCast. So what characters from the books that didn’t make it into the movies are going to first come into… going to be officially announced for the TV show? That’s the question?
Micah: Yep.
Andrew: Okay. Ludo. No, that’s too late.
[Laura laughs]
Micah: That’s too far.
Eric: That’s way too late, yeah.
Andrew: That’s years from now. [laughs] Peeves is a good guess.
Eric: Yeah, if they have the courage.
Andrew: Well, we can think of that. Maybe do a bonus MuggleCast around it or something.
Eric: That’d be interesting.
Andrew: But yeah, those are the latest developments there. Cute photo of the gang, like Eric said. And stay tuned, and we’ll be covering the TV show as things develop. Before we get to Chapter by Chapter, we want to remind everybody that this year’s physical gift exclusively for Slug Club patrons is here. It’s the MuggleCast 20th anniversary retrospective yearbook. This is a real book featuring writing by each of the four hosts, telling the story of the podcast across these last 20 years. We have lots of behind-the-scenes looks at the show across these two decades, including tons of original writing and never-before-seen photos. It’s a treasure trove of archival material. This is a really special gift; we’ve never put a book together, so that’s been really exciting. We wanted to do something really special for this milestone achievement, and so we’ve put a ton of time into creating something that we really think you’ll enjoy flipping through and cherishing for the next 20 years. And since this is a yearbook, we will also be sending you a book plate that is hand-signed by all four of us, and then you could take this and place it wherever you want in the yearbook. Recently, Eric showed us at a recent meeting the Jamie’s British Jokes page. It has every single Jamie’s British Joke of the Week in it, and it’s really cool. [laughs] It’s just… there’s little touches like that across the yearbook y’all are really going to like. This is a gift that goes out to Slug Club patrons, and we send you a new physical gift every year, so go to Patreon.com/MuggleCast and pledge at the Slug Club level to receive the yearbook. The deadline to pledge to receive the yearbook is September 15, and we will be off next week because of the Labor Day holiday, so don’t delay; jump in now. Join the Patreon now. And – and and and – as everybody knows, to celebrate our 20th anniversary, for the whole month of August we are also offering a 20% discount off an annual subscription to our Patreon. We have never offered a discount this large before. This offer ends at the end of August, so please don’t delay. Go to Patreon.com/MuggleCast. Pledge now. You can use the promo code “20YEARS” at checkout. Also, by default, the discount should be 20%, so you don’t even have to worry about the promo code.
Eric: Andrew, since you mentioned the joke compendium, let’s tell a British joke. How do you feel about that?
Andrew: Oh, do you have one ready for us?
Eric: I have one ready for you. What is the most common owl in Britain?
Andrew: Uh… an, uh…
Micah: You have to at least say it in a British accent.
Eric: I can’t.
Laura: Oh, yeah.
Eric: It already exists in a British accent, and I couldn’t possibly top it.
Micah: We should have played it. We should have clipped it.
Eric: Okay, I didn’t get the clips!
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: I just pulled the transcript words, Micah. Geez, heckling me. The most common owl in Britain is a teat-owl, as in a tea towel.
Andrew: Huh.
[Micah groans]
Andrew: Is that one going to be included in the yearbook? I think we need to cut that.
Eric: They were all that bad.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: And that one’s definitely in the yearbook, yeah. It’s basically the most British joke ever. But they’re all in there. There are 60 jokes that were told.
Andrew: Patrons who receive the yearbook, maybe you should go through each one and kind of rate them on a scale of one to five stars, and then let us know.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: Send a picture.
Laura: There we go.
Eric: Yeah, we won’t spoil it, but the pages are very recognizable in the yearbook, so you could also read just one a day to improve your mental health, or keep the bookmark in there or something; just open to it whenever you want… it’s going to be a good opportunity.
Laura: We can pass the ratings on to Jamie 20 years later.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: Hurt his feelings on some of them.
Eric: “Here’s what people think of all your awful jokes.”
Laura: “We stack-ranked your British jokes.”
Eric: Oh, man.
Andrew: [imitating Jamie] “Ouch, mate. You didn’t like my jokes?”
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: Patreon.com/MuggleCast. Please don’t delay; this is the time to become a patron, and you get tons of other benefits, too, besides the physical gift. We do a lot on our Patreon.
Eric: We do.
Chapter by Chapter: Time-Turner
Andrew: Time for Chapter by Chapter, and this week we’re discussing Order of the Phoenix Chapter 36, “The Only One He Ever Feared.”
Eric: We last discussed this chapter on MuggleCast 473, which is called “Dumbledore v. Voldemort.” Sounds like a court case. That was released July 14, 2020.
[Ticking sound]
Dumbledore: Three turns should do it, I think. Good luck.
Ron: What the…?
[Bell dings]
[Whooshing sound]
Robotic voice: Episode 473.
Andrew: This was also a tearjerker moment, though, just reading this line from Neville: ‘Harry… I’b really sorry… Was dat man – was Sirius Black a – a friend of yours?” [cries]
Micah: “Was that the man that stole the password list from me back in year three?”
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: “That bastard! I’m glad he’s gone!”
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: “Broke into Gryffindor tower and scared the crap out of all of us?”
Andrew: “How could he be a friend of yours?”
[Eric laughs]
[Ticking sound]
Dumbledore: Mysterious thing, time.
[Bell dings]
Chapter by Chapter: Main Discussion
Laura: Wow. Well, what a setup for the start of this chapter where Harry comes to the horrific realization that Sirius really ain’t coming out from behind that curtain. He is well and truly dead, as they say. And because of this, Harry immediately decides to bolt after Bellatrix, yelling that he’s going to kill her, and something that really stuck out to me about this first sequence was Harry ran into the rotunda room trying to chase her. She had already gone through a door, and the room had already spun around and reset itself, and Harry, in desperation, just yells out, “What’s the way out?” And the door to the atrium just popped open.
Eric: Huh.
Andrew: “This way! This way! This way!”
[Eric laughs]
Laura: So could they have done this the entire time?
Eric: [sighs] Maybe it’s only for the exit, right? Because you feel like you go into a government building, you’re on your way to traffic court or something, oops, wrong turn, Department of Mysteries…
[Laura laughs]
Eric: “Where’s the exit? How do I…?” The second you close the door, the room rotates. You’re like, “Oh, God.”
Andrew: Yeah, if you already figured out your way in, they should throw you a bone and let you get out easily enough.
Eric: Maybe that’s it. But like you said, we didn’t… there was no indication that this was a voice-activated room the first time.
Laura: Right.
Eric: And there’s also this indicator that… or situation where they didn’t exactly know the name of the room they were going to because they didn’t know it was the Hall of Prophecy. They knew there were a lot of glass orbs, or a room of shiny things. I think Harry is literally like, “We’re looking for the room with shiny things.” So if it is voice-activated in the rotunda, they wouldn’t have been able to ask, “Can you show us the Hall of Prophecy?” to even test this theory.
Laura: Right, but I guess I’m thinking could Harry have tried to say, “Where’s Sirius?” And obviously it wouldn’t have worked, because Sirius wasn’t there…
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: No, you would hear a game show [makes a buzzing sound] kind of thing play and then…
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: Yeah, or it would have been like, “Run. Turn around. Run. He’s not here. Run.”
Eric: Aww.
Micah: I do like the idea that for security purposes, you can get out if you need to, especially in a place like the Department of Mysteries, where presumably you’re not supposed to be there unless you have the appropriate credentials, and Dumbledore’s Army certainly is not a group that has the appropriate credentials to be there. So I do like that idea that if you need to get out, the Department of Mysteries will let you out.
Andrew: Yeah, they don’t want you stuck in there. Why would they want you stuck in there?
Eric: It’s like how you summon the Knight Bus is you just throw your wand arm up. It seems very user friendly for those situations where you’re really in it as a wizard. But the alternative here… because if the room is not wired to do this, then Harry is using some kind of special magic without realizing that he’s using very special magic. He’s frustrated; he’s gone through, I think, pretty much all of the emotions, and he says, “Where’s the exit?” That’s obviously not the incantation to open the door, but we’ve seen this before, where in high stress, wizards can produce an effect that they desire, so the “Where’s the exit?” is just something he says, while his body, or his willpower, his sheer force of will, is forcing open the correct door. I like that too.
Laura: Yeah. I will say I’m coming around to this idea that this is a feature of this room.
Andrew: I think we’ve figured this out.
Laura: It feels very forward-thinking, which I’m just not used to from…
Micah: From us?
Laura: … wizarding bureaucracy.
[Andrew and Micah laugh]
Eric: No, that’s fair, but I bet a thousand people got trapped in there before they added that feature.
Laura: Yeah, they all fell through the veil.
Eric: How many people keep wandering into the brain tank, “Ooh, this looks cozy; let’s swim”? They have to be able to at least ask for the exit.
Micah: Could we also throw out a third possibility, which is that Voldemort may be assisting Harry in getting out of the Department of Mysteries so that…?
Eric: To go kill Bella?
Micah: Well, so that he can ultimately confront him.
Andrew and Laura: Yeah.
Laura: Using her as bait.
Andrew: Does he have that much control, though? I mean, he just says, “I want to go,” and it happens. The timing would be very coincidental, I think.
Eric: Well, and Bellatrix also finds the exit immediately, because she’s running.
Laura: Right.
Eric: So Harry is chasing after her, but she’s closed the door behind her. But how did she find it so quickly to begin with also? I like the idea that there’s something that just the adults know and the kids don’t, such as you can ask for the exit.
Micah: I think that for the most part, the Death Eaters have mapped out the Department of Mysteries based on all of the reconnaissance that they’ve been doing up until this point, between Podmore and Bode and the fact that Lucius has been hanging out down here. Didn’t one of the Death Eaters also used to work in the Department of Mysteries?
Andrew: I think so.
Eric: That’s Bode. I think he was an Unspeakable.
Micah: Well, no, one of the Death Eaters.
Eric: Oh, yeah.
Micah: Possibly Rookwood?
Eric: Rookwood.
Laura: I thought… yeah, I think you’re right about that.
Micah: So I think that Bellatrix… she also could just have a lot of magical ability that forces the room to show her the exit.
Laura: Yeah, I mean, we know she’s very powerful.
Andrew: Yeah. By the way, I really like this point from James. “So by this logic, would asking the walls nicely to unlock the door to the love room work?” I think you’d have to say something like, “I’m looking for love. I’m looking for where the magic happens.”
Eric: Yeah, you have to stroke the doorknob.
Andrew: “I’m looking for something to do with my wand.”
Laura: [laughs] I don’t think that’s what the love room is for.
Andrew: People are asking for the show to get weird again, so that’s my attempt right here.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: Yeah, people actually are asking. We get five emails a week about that.
Andrew: “Make MuggleCast weird again.”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Micah: So Laura, I also thought that it was important that we take a minute to feel for Lupin here, because obviously, Harry has lost his godfather, but Lupin has just lost his best friend not long after regaining him. It’s not been, what, but two years since Sirius has been cleared, at least for those who know him well enough. And the fact that Lupin does everything in his power to prevent Harry from following Sirius through the veil, I think, speaks volumes of his character, given what emotionally he’s probably going through in this moment.
Eric and Laura: Yeah.
Andrew: I mean, that is an incredibly difficult line to walk. You’re trying to restrain and comfort Harry and look out for him, while also grieving the loss of your lifelong friend. But I think he’s probably just so shocked in the moment too. You just kind of kick into protector mode and do what you need to do no matter the emotions.
Laura: Yeah, I think that’s right.
Eric: He’s got a lot of logic, and he knows that Harry is ready to jump into the veil. [laughs] Not because Harry has a death wish, but he’s literally just… he’s sure that there are people in there, and if they’re in there then they can come out, is Harry’s logic.
Micah: Lupin, I know, is going to get a little bit of a bad rap as we move forward in the series, so I just wanted to take a moment to appreciate what he does here. And not only does he help Harry, he helps Neville, because he removes the curse from Neville’s legs so that he can walk again.
Laura: Right.
Eric: He’s like, “Neville, you sound ridiculous. I can’t do anything about that just yet, but I’ll help your legs.”
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Again, Neville’s still got a broken nose, unfortunately.
Laura: So in the atrium, Harry actually manages to kind of hold his own with Bellatrix, at least initially, and ultimately, he manages to produce a decent enough sounding Crucio that it does initially catch her off guard.
Eric: It knocks her off her feet. That’s kind of cool.
Laura: Yeah, yeah, and I mean, initially she’s…
Micah: She actually tripped.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Eric: She conveniently at the same moment was just like, “Oh.”
Laura: And she was so embarrassed by… wait, what would embarrass her more, getting hit by a teenage Crucio cast, or tripping in the middle of battle?
Andrew: Probably the former.
Laura: Yeah, but it’s good enough that she’s initially knocked off her feet. She yells. She has a moment of fear about this, but it’s very clear that Harry doesn’t yet have the skillset to be able to successfully cast something like this. And she says that line that I think we talk about quite a bit with regard to Harry’s character around the Unforgivable Curses, and she says, “You have to mean it. You have to really want to cause pain and torture in order for this to work.” And I’m wondering, do we think Harry could have gotten there with Bellatrix if he had had more time with her?
Andrew: So I think the answer is in how she is describing it. Like you said, she said, “You need to mean them, Potter! You need to really want to cause pain – to enjoy it – righteous anger won’t hurt me for long – I’ll show you how it’s done. I’ll give you a lesson.” Does Harry really want to cause pain and enjoy it? That’s tough, even in a moment like this. Maybe yes, he wants to cause pain, but does he enjoy it? I’m not so sure. That said, I think with more focus and determination and just maybe being a little more calm, he would be able to cast this curse on her.
Micah: So I disagree slightly. I’m not sure he’s mature enough at this point to really mean it, despite what just happened to Sirius, and the main reason being that Harry is dealing with a lot of conflicting emotions in this moment. And I think if we’re to compare this to just a couple books later in Deathly Hallows, to when Amycus Carrow spits on McGonagall, the Crucio that Harry casts here is far more intense and far more intentional. And yes, he’s a couple years older, but I think he really is able to channel his emotions and be in the proper state of mind to use this Unforgivable Curse. He is livid at what has just transpired in front of him, and the only thing on his mind is repaying Amycus Carrow for what he just did to McGonagall, to the point where it even shocks her.
Andrew and Laura: Yeah.
Andrew: I do wonder if Harry were able to successfully cast Crucio, how that would have played with the Ministry of Magic, because… would he have been let off the hook for this Unforgivable Curse? It is Unforgivable.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: And I mean, this is the same Ministry that is ready to punish Dumbledore at the end of this chapter, so I really wonder how they would have reacted to this.
Eric: It’s wild, because they have some Death Eaters that are downstairs restrained in their Department of Mysteries. There was clearly break-in; the Death Eaters themselves are clearly involved. There’s not a lot of deniability there, but they’re looking for chances to chuck Harry in Azkaban. So maybe it’s one of those situations where… I mean, unless Dumbledore arrives and stages the scene to be otherwise, yeah, Harry could be in hot water here. But that actually brings up another question that I had, which is how does Harry get up here before Dumbledore?
Micah: It’s a good one.
Eric: Because if you read the first couple of paragraphs of this chapter, Dumbledore has already mostly taken care of all the Death Eaters, and most of them are tied up. Kingsley is dueling Bellatrix; Kingsley falters, he moans, he goes, “Ahh,” and that gets Dumbledore’s attention, so Dumbledore lets Bellatrix leave. And then, while Harry is still being restrained by Lupin, I guess Dumbledore doesn’t really do anything, because then Harry goes and runs past Dumbledore, up the stairs, out the room, into the atrium. What is Dumbledore playing at here? Because it should be his… he should be going after her, and certainly not Harry, who is not capable of rational thought right now and… yeah, what’s going on here?
Laura: Well, James in our Discord is saying, “Harry has the speed of youth on his side.”
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Andrew: And he’s got a lot of rage right now, too, so I feel like that’s speeding him up.
Eric: There’s an App-arate for that.
Micah: Dumbledore’s middle name is Apparition.
Laura: True.
Micah: He can Apparate anywhere he wants to at any time, it seems like.
Andrew: Maybe he hadn’t gotten his steps that day, so he was like, “Well, I’d better just run this one out, because I need to close my rings.”
Eric: But it takes a while for Dumbledore to arrive. It’s not like there’s 15 seconds between Harry and Bellatrix, and then Dumbledore shows up.
Micah: Maybe Bellatrix and Harry used up the free passes to get through the exit door, and so Dumbledore was just sitting there trying to…
Eric: Ohh. Trying doors?
[Andrew laughs]
Eric and Micah: Yeah.
Laura: That’s rough.
Andrew: The room is like, “How many fools are in here today? How many times do I have to just give you a free pass out of here? Dang.”
Eric: I just… it feels irresponsible. You know what it gives? It gives Sorcerer’s Stone vibes where Dumbledore, I think, flat-out says to Harry at the end of the year, “I thought you had a right to face Quirrell-Voldemort if you wanted to.” Harry was 11 years old! That was a bad call. But it feels like he’s letting Harry go and avenge Sirius. Maybe it’s due to guilt over his involvement in the fact that Sirius ended up dead, but this is still a reckless decision, especially because it puts Harry right in front of Voldemort again.
Laura: Well, especially considering we know that in just a few months’ time, Dumbledore is going to be making Snape swear to him that he’ll kill him and not to let Bellatrix do it, because she likes to play with her food.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: So he knows exactly what type of Death Eater Bellatrix is and is resigning Harry to that fate. God, Laura, that’s such a good call-out.
Micah: And on top of that, we’re going to be in a situation very similar to this at the end of Half-Blood Prince, where Dumbledore does, in fact, immobilize Harry. He prevents him from getting involved.
Eric: Ohh.
Micah: Maybe we couldn’t do that in both books; that would have been a little too repetitious.
Eric: Or he knows that Harry would just be really cross if he lets him not get his revenge now.
Micah: Do you think deep down that maybe Dumbledore is hoping for a Voldemort cameo?
Eric: Probably.
Laura: Yeah. Well, I mean, at this point, isn’t Dumbledore starting to really put together the Horcrux theory? We don’t know about it yet from Harry’s perspective, but is he trying to test the waters here to see what happens when the two of them are in the same room?
Eric: The same body, even, as happens?
Andrew and Laura: Yeah.
Andrew: No, I think that makes sense. I mean, Dumbledore was onto the Horcrux thing since Chamber of Secrets, right? And I think…
Laura: Yeah, no, I guess you’re right.
Andrew: Now it’s a good opportunity, though, to your point, to see what happens when the two of them are together, while Dumbledore is a monitor of the situation.
Eric: Safely viewing the…
Andrew: Yeah, he’s not going to let anything bad happen.
Eric: [laughs] No, no, no.
Laura: Right, nothing bad happens here.
Andrew: Yeah, come on.
Micah: I do agree, though; I think that Dumbledore should have done some sort of intervention here to prevent Harry from going after Bellatrix.
Eric: Or splitting his soul or something.
Micah: It’s reckless.
Eric: Yeah, there are protections here. There is… yeah, revenge is never good. So Dumbledore is careless at worst, and manipulative and strategic at best. And I think it probably… I probably go on the latter where he’s letting Harry go up there, maybe in the hopes that Voldemort will show up, or that he’ll learn more about the situation. But it puts Harry at risk.
Laura: Well, we’re going to get a little bit more into this discussion when we get back, specifically about Bellatrix. I know, Eric, you have some points you want to bring up.
Eric: I am so excited.
[Ad break]
Laura: Eric, tell me about Bellatrix.
Eric: We need to talk about Bellatrix.
Laura: Yeah, what’s the deeper reading that you’re doing here?
Eric: Yeah, so this time reading through, I picked up just a few things. And we know, of course, in the plot of Cursed Child, that it is in fact Bellatrix and Voldemort whose child is involved. And I have to just ask, because some of these things are a bit odd going through the books with that in mind. So the first of three things I noticed is that after Harry fails to cast the Crucio curse, Bellatrix mentions that the Dark Lord himself taught her the Dark Arts, and that’s kind of an interesting little tidbit. She says, “I was and am the Dark Lord’s most loyal servant, I learned the Dark Arts from him, and I know spells of such power that you, pathetic little boy, can never hope to compete.” And funnily enough, to that, Harry casts Stupefy at her. But what is this personal tutelage that she’s received from Voldemort? When did it start?
Micah: Bow-chicka-wow-wow.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: No, really, because either it’s private between the two of them, or Voldemort and all of his Death Eater army are running drills. Like, “Okay, guys, today we’re going to learn to conjure a snake.” Can you see that happening?
Andrew: Well, we’ve always known that Bellatrix has had an attraction to Voldemort, right?
Eric: Yes.
Andrew: She’s really fawned over him. So I could see her asking…
Eric: You could also see it being one-sided, though.
Andrew: Right. No, no, definitely. But I could see her asking her boo, “Hey, could you give me some lessons?” And maybe he wants to improve his ranks, so he’s like, “Yeah, I’ll teach you a thing or two.”
Eric: Because it’s a little bit different. I mean, if you look at the wording, though, it’s a little bit different than saying “The Dark Lord showed me the most heinous spells, and I learned the Dark Arts from him.” That speaks to a long term development kind of…
Andrew: Fair.
Eric: So that’s interesting. That’s just an interesting way in which she puts it. She’s married, by the way.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: But moving on, as the second thing, Voldemort refers to her as “Bella.”
Andrew: That’s a big flag to me.
Eric: Yeah, what does this say…?
Andrew: That makes the Cursed Child, the twist, canon to me. [laughs]
Eric: Yeah. This alone, I think, could do it, because that’s an informal version of her name. We don’t ever see Voldemort… yeah.
Micah: Which just happens to mean “beautiful.”
Eric and Laura: Yeah.
Eric: So we don’t ever see Voldemort using an informal name with his followers. In fact, he rigidly calls many of them by their surname. Macnair… he doesn’t even call Peter by any of his names; he calls him “Wormtail.” So to shorten the name of one of your few female followers in such a way seems to also indicate some level of affection from Voldemort. And they’re in front of people now, so even if he calls her Bella on the side, why wouldn’t he just, in this instance, call her Bellatrix, the full name?
Andrew: Yeah, yeah.
Eric: Like, “Bellatrix, you’d better come with me.”
Andrew: Apparently their relationship is out in the open if he’s using it in a public setting. [laughs]
Laura: Yeah. Or they’ve known each other in this way long enough that he doesn’t even think about it when he says it, which is so weird to imagine Voldemort having an affectionate name for somebody, because that just doesn’t… it feels like that falls in the realm of Voldemort not understanding love.
Andrew: Yes!
Laura: So I mean, yeah, it’s weird.
Eric: Here’s where it happens: “Master, I am sorry, I knew not, I was fighting the Animagus Black! Master, you should know -“ And he says, “Be quiet, Bella. I shall deal with you in a moment.”
Andrew: [imitating Voldemort] “Bella! Where’s the prophecy, Loca?”
[Everyone laughs]
Micah: I like that.
Andrew: That’s a Twilight reference, for anyone who…
Micah: Oh, is it? There’s a prophecy in Twilight?
Andrew: No, no, a line from Twilight went viral. “Bella, where the hell have you been, Loca?” said by Jacob. [laughs]
Eric: One of the things that could make Twilight worse is if there were a prophecy in it.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: Laura, though, I’m glad that you brought this up, because one of the things that I picked up on is that Bellatrix, as far as we know, is the only female Death Eater, at least the only one that we’ve met up until this point. And as far as I can tell, the only one we ever meet is Alecto Carro in Deathly Hallows.
Eric: Ah.
Micah: Narcissa is…
Eric: Unconfirmed.
Micah: … most likely not a Death Eater. I think she’s just part of the crowd, and a resistant part of the crowd at that. And so I’m curious, do we think this is why Voldemort chooses to interact with her in this way? Because she’s really the only female part of his Death Eater squad?
Laura: Yeah, and I mean, honestly, I could totally see Voldemort being one of these eugenics bros who thinks that it’s his duty to sow his seed and produce perfect specimen children. That just feels right up his alley.
Eric: That escalated.
Laura: Sorry. I mean, tell me I’m wrong.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: No, look, I don’t think you’re wrong. But it’s interesting that he softens, right? This is Voldemort in all of his glory, and he’s also threatening her. He says, “Be quiet. I will deal with you later.” Like, “Stop groveling.” But he calls her by a softer name. You would think he would go all the way, hard, the way that he does on his other Death Eaters with her. So that’s just two of three. The third thing that I want to mention – and this has to do with sort of towards the end of the chapter – the only reason that Cornelius Fudge sees Voldemort is because after he fails to possess Harry or keep possession on Harry, and he doesn’t have a body anymore because he’s disappeared entirely, he actually comes back. Voldemort comes back, but it’s only for a few seconds to rescue Bellatrix Lestrange from the rubble that she’s under and leave.
Andrew: That’s love.
Eric: And it’s in those few seconds… why did Voldemort come back into the room, corporeal form where he can be observed, or, even worse, attacked? Dumbledore is in full form right across the way. You’re really going to come back to rescue a Death Eater? Voldemort is not supposed to care about his Death Eaters! He’s not supposed to care about anybody but himself!
Andrew: [imitating Voldemort] “But it’s Bella, Loca!”
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: I think you’re making a great case here for the Cursed Child twist being canon.
Eric: And I hate that!
[Micah laughs]
Andrew: I’m glad you bring up these points. I don’t! I like that it ties back to Order of the Phoenix. Thank God we have some evidence.
Eric: I don’t think that makes it a better play.
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: No, but… I know we talked about this before, but I feel like timeline-wise, it could work that Bellatrix could be pregnant at this point, which would really explain why he would come back to get her.
Eric: Oh. Especially if he thinks about it the way that you said that he probably thinks about it. He’s got mileage, or what’s…? Mileage? He’s got baggage, or Bellatrix has something that he needs…
Micah: Bellatrix baggage?
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
[Eric sighs]
Micah: But if I’m to play a little bit of devil’s advocate, could it also just be because she is fiercely loyal to him, and he wants to ensure that he has at least one Death Eater? Because at this point, all the other Death Eaters are tied up down in the Department of Mysteries, and let’s face it, we don’t really know where their loyalties truly lie at the end of the day. Bellatrix is completely committed to him.
Eric: Yes. Yeah, I mean, he’s down six or seven Death Eaters; it makes sense that he would save who he can. Except it’s Voldemort! He’s not supposed to care about anybody except himself, especially when the stakes are so high. So it’s interesting because, again, Fudge only sees him at the very last second when he’s there to rescue Bella, and if his instinct… if Voldemort had just fled, we still would get another year or two of the Ministry’s official line on Voldemort being that he’s not back.
Micah: Maybe he’s also just trying to clean it up. He’s trying to ensure that… he didn’t know that Fudge was going to show up.
Eric: Right.
Micah: If he’s able to hightail it out of there and remove Bellatrix from the scene, then it’s just a bunch of Death Eaters that got caught down in the Department of Mysteries. I don’t know. I like where you’re going; I agree that this is a very cool way that you’ve organized this Cursed Child story.
Eric and Laura: Yeah.
Eric: Well, it’s just interesting because I really question… it’s these little moments in the dialogue and uncharacteristic behavior, especially of Voldemort – we don’t see him too often in the books, but when we see him, he doesn’t behave like this – that really makes me question whether he and Bellatrix have gone to a Coldplay concert together or something, you know what I mean?
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: I mean, he’s like her boss, after all. She’s married.
Andrew: Oh, that would be good. Somebody Photoshop that.
[Micah laughs]
Eric: Yeah, but I don’t know. I don’t know the nature of their relationship.
Micah: You could get that from AI, probably, in about 30 seconds after the show.
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: Well, cool. Thank you for that. Because yeah, I think that’s an element of Voldemort that we don’t really talk about. I mean, until Cursed Child, I don’t think anyone considered that he could even physically procreate.
Eric: I remember that being a big sticking point.
Laura: Yeah. [laughs] We were like, “Okay.”
Andrew: Don’t judge a book by its cover, y’all. No nose is helpful, I think, for that.
Eric: Well, there’s a lot else going on with Voldemort in this chapter alone, too, so it’s easy to miss it.
Laura: Well, I wanted to talk about the symbolism of the Fountain of Magical Brethren, because there is quite a bit of subtext, I think, we can read into here. You have the witch, the wizard, and then you have a centaur, a house-elf, and a goblin, and of course, the house-elf and the goblin are just looking up starry-eyed at the witch and wizard. It’s really giving this idea that magical creatures are somehow subservient and happy to be so to wizards, which we know is not reality. But this fountain gets absolutely wrecked over the course of this battle, and I think there’s some symbolism here. The big one that stuck out to me was what happened to the wizard figure that was used by Dumbledore to protect Harry. So Voldemort, right after he appears, very quickly decides that he’s going to AK Harry, and Dumbledore saves Harry by having the wizard figure from the fountain basically hold him captive against a wall. However, that wizard figure was decapitated, and I thought this could be potentially an omen of Dumbledore’s coming death.
Eric: Like a self-sacrificial for Harry kind of…?
Laura: Right.
Micah: Well, Dumbledore doesn’t protect Harry, so there goes that theory.
Eric: [laughs] Wow.
Micah: I’m just joking. [laughs]
Laura: Well, I mean… so no, I mean, you’re right; he doesn’t protect Harry as much as he should, that’s for sure. But I don’t know if it was meant to sort of serve as a little bit of a red herring for what was to come. I thought it was a very intentional choice that Harry was protected by the wizard; Bellatrix was protected by the witch, although that was probably more so just to get her out of the way, not so much to protect her, but it had the added bonus of protecting her, which feels very Dumbledore to do. Do no harm, even if the person definitely deserves to be harmed.
Eric: Dumbledore is like Batman in that way. He’s not going to kill; he’s going to just imprison.
Micah: And being pinned down by the witch… we know that she’s ultimately destroyed by Molly in Deathly Hallows.
Eric: Oh.
Laura: Ooh, I like that. That’s great. Thank you for that, Micah, because I was like, “There’s got to be something to this,” and I just… it was… yeah, I wasn’t able to draw an inference there. So that’s a really, really good one. I was also thinking with the centaur, it loses an arm, and I was just honestly – candidly – just looking up literary theory and representation about what it means to lose limbs, what that’s intended to represent.
Eric: Let’s ask George Lucas.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: Sorry.
Laura: That’s amazing. “I have the high ground.”
[Eric laughs]
Laura: But anyway, the loss of a limb like that is very representative of a loss of power, and I think that’s definitely a very active theme with the centaurs, particularly in this book. So to see that happen here, but then also the fact, Micah, you brought up that the centaur also charges Voldemort. The centaur is also being used, in this case, to ward off an enemy, very similar to what Hermione was just trying to do.
Eric: Oh! Dumbledore did it too! Everybody’s doing it. Let the centaurs take out the garbage.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Micah: Could we also maybe flip that and think that the centaurs perhaps will come around and see the larger threat that Voldemort poses to the wizarding world, and in the moment that it’s called for, will charge Voldemort and his followers?
Laura: Yep.
Eric: Seems reasonable.
Laura: Yeah, it does. And the one that I’m really having trouble connecting here is the goblin. It loses an ear.
Eric: Huh? What?
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: I don’t really know how to connect threads to what’s coming in the rest of the series to that. [laughs]
Eric: It’s interesting…
Andrew: Well, Fudge and co. have not been listening. [laughs] That kind of works backwards, but…
Eric: The goblin and the house-elf statues are very interesting to me in this chapter, because they go and get help, which is not strictly a protect or attack role that Dumbledore has given to the witch and the wizard and the centaur. And at the end of it, when things are settling down, the house-elf and the goblin applaud Dumbledore, are like, “Yay!” And I find it so interesting, because I have to ask what is the magic? What is the…? Is it transfiguration to where…? Because we see statues do that a couple of times. The suits of armor at Hogwarts are like that, but they’re always kind of single-minded. So is Dumbledore controlling the goblin and the house-elf to clap for him here?
Andrew: I don’t think so.
Eric: Because if not, then it’s actually more problematic, because the whole reason that the Fountain of Magical Brethren is problematic is thinking that these other races that are non-human will adore the humans in the room, right? So if Dumbledore brought them to life and just said, “Do whatever you guys want to do,” and they’re like, “Yay! Wizards are great!”
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Then you see how that’s also a problem. So I choose to think that Dumbledore gave ’em part of his personality, and right now he needs two little hype men…
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: … so he’s literally… because Fudge shows up…
Andrew: Dumbledore doesn’t really carry an ego about him, so that’s why this isn’t checking out for me.
Eric: I think he does carry an ego, but it’s subtle. I think he’s intelligent enough to, when the moment calls for it, get something that seems like it’s not him to promote his coolness.
Micah: I do think, though, that there’s something to be said for the obedience factor of the goblin and the house-elf going for help, especially as it relates to house-elves, because throughout this series we’ve seen them be so loyal to… whether it was their family or to other individuals, so the fact that Dumbledore chooses these two to go for help… and I guess you could also maybe look at it as him getting them out of harm’s way, even though the goblin does lose an ear. Maybe he has a little bit of a soft spot for these creatures, and he realizes that if he leaves them here, they’re probably going to get blown to smithereens by Voldemort.
Andrew: Well, that part sticks.
Eric: I’m going to call this for what it is: The goblin and the house-elf aren’t tall enough to protect Harry, so they have to go.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: The wizard gets to Harry because he’s the biggest and most likely to be able to protect him. I mean, except maybe the centaur. But I think the goblin and the house-elf are used in a way that would be sort of, “Okay, you can’t fight, so you go call for help.”
Andrew: Yeah, their skillset is going to call for help in this scenario.
Micah: Dobby is pretty good.
Andrew: Yeah. HedwigsTheme does agree with you, Eric. “That’s hilarious and cocky and elaborate. Totally Dumbledore-coded.” Your theory a couple of minutes ago.
Eric: Oh, thanks. Yeah, if you go back and read when they clap and what the circumstances are, it sounds… it’s at the perfect moment for Dumbledore to look good. And Dumbledore and Fudge have this tense moment – which we’ll get back to the chapter in a second – but they have this tense moment where you’re uncertain if Dumbledore is about to get arrested still, but then a second later, probably after the clapping, he starts making demands of Fudge. “Here’s what you’re going to do. You’re going to do this, this, and this, and this, and this,” and so I think it’s all because he had an audience clapping for him.
Micah: Going back to what you said earlier, though, Laura, I do think there’s larger symbolism here in the fact that the Fountain of Magical Brethren gets completely destroyed, right? And it’s almost like a reset. It’s a larger message that’s being sent, I think, that in order to defeat Voldemort, the entire wizarding community is going to need to find a way to work together, as opposed to how things were done previously. Like you were saying, the fact that you had all of these other creatures that were looking up adoringly at the witch and wizard, that’s no longer the case, right? Everybody is more or less on equal footing. And I think that probably Dumbledore may take a little bit of satisfaction in the fact that he had a hand in this fountain being destroyed. Of course, we know what comes to replace it in Deathly Hallows is far worse, but you can actually probably debate that there are some similarities between the two of them.
Laura: Right. Yeah, no, definitely. I think it’s just a matter of degrees.
Micah: Right, for sure.
Eric: Cedric Diggorys? Amos Diggorys?
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: Oh, degrees.
Micah: Eric’s got the dad joke this week.
Laura: There we go.
Andrew: Check.
Eric: Sorry, I’m on a Delphi kick. It’s killing me.
Laura: Voldemort is in the atrium. We already covered some of this, but he does confirm, ultimately, that Harry is being truthful about the prophecy being lost. Bellatrix, of course, initially thinks Harry is lying about this, but Voldemort is very quickly and easily able to read Harry’s mind because, you know, he didn’t really learn Occlumency this year.
Eric: Oh. [laughs]
Laura: So, oops. That sucks.
Andrew: Aww.
Laura: And we already talked about the events of what the fountain does, and Harry being protected by the wizard statue from the fountain, but getting a little deeper into this part of the chapter where the battle between Dumbledore and Voldemort starts, I just have to say that I think I stand corrected here, and I think I need to own up to the fact…
[Andrew gasps]
Laura: … that we’ve made fun of this scene in the movie for years for being like a Pokémon battle…
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: … and upon rereading this chapter, that’s pretty much what happens.
Eric: Yeah, that’s what it is.
Laura: [laughs] That’s what it is.
Andrew: I think that’s okay! Personally, I… and I have this issue with Quidditch too. Sometimes so much is happening, it’s kind of hard to follow. If it’s more straightforward, like this turn-based kind of Pokémon battle, that’s okay.
Micah: All right. But shouldn’t we also hold the movies in some ways to a higher standard, especially as it relates to battle scenes? You have millions of dollars at your disposal to be able to create epic battles and…
Eric: I’m going to stop you right there, Micah.
Micah: Well, let me just finish…
Eric: Okay, okay.
Micah: … and you can do whatever you want. [laughs] But we’ve watched videos on YouTube created by fans where there is better spell-casting and better battle sequences than what is actually in the Harry Potter films.
Eric: Okay, now I’ve got to ask, Micah, when Order of the Phoenix came out during the summer of Potter, did you go and see…? Because the last 30 minutes are in IMAX, right? Did you see this Pokémon battle between Dumbledore and Voldemort in IMAX? Because you can’t knock it till you’ve seen it in IMAX.
Micah: No, I didn’t see it at all.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: That’s where it looks cool. That’s where it really pops. That’s where it’s not as ridiculous-looking as it is…
Micah: Not everybody can go to IMAX.
Eric: I’m joking, of course.
Micah: No, I know you are.
Eric: Yeah, I think the TV show will have more time to devote to it, which is ultimately the… I’ve told this story before, but reading this book for the very first time, I was like, “They could make just this Ministry of Magic segment two hours long.” It’s that complex.
Andrew and Laura: Yeah.
Andrew: It’ll be a whole episode for sure, I think.
Laura: Definitely.
Micah: No, one thing I do hope that the TV show does is kind of elevate the spell-casting and some of the other battle scenes that we’ve seen in the series, and I do hope, too… I know we didn’t talk about this when we were talking about the fountain, but Max it.
[“Max that” sound effect plays]
Micah: We didn’t see the Fountain of Magical Brethren come to life in the movies.
Laura: Right.
Eric: That’s a part of this chapter and the previous one that’s really valid and valuable to see adapted, because they’re using the scenery around them to affect change. The magic is fun and all, but they’re using the shelves to get away from the Death Eaters, or they’re using the statues to protect Harry and pin Bellatrix. That’s, I think, the visceral, cool angle that we’re looking for that just wasn’t really in the movies.
Andrew: And I think we’re already seeing hints of this with the paparazzi photos from filming, but we are seeing some welcome changes, I think, stylistically, and hopefully that does get carried over to wand work, battles, stuff like that.
Laura: Yep.
Eric: Yeah, we complained about Order of the Phoenix showing Voldemort in a suit, but wait till you see Voldemort in a tracksuit.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: It’s going to be amazing.
Andrew: It’s going to be so ’90s, early 2000s.
Eric: A ’90s tracksuit.
Andrew: Yeah. No, so I’m optimistic that they are making a conscious effort to do things a little differently, put a good twist on things. And I think a big question here is going to be are they working with the same wand choreographer this time? Are they bringing in new people who are going to have a different vision for it? That’s a factor. And last thing I’ll say on this is we were nervous about the wand work in Hogwarts Legacy before we got into that game, right? We were like, “What are battles going to be like?” Because it can be kind of hokey, but they did an amazing job in that video game. So I’m not saying the people who worked on that are going to work on the TV show, but that leaves me optimistic for the future, how things can evolve.
Eric: It was Paul Harris, by the way. Shout-out the wand choreographer for…
Andrew: Great guy, great guy. I’m sure he goes to the conferences, teaches people the spell work… but yeah, let’s get somebody new in there.
Laura: Definitely.
Andrew: Micah T. He has some thoughts, clearly.
Micah: Not the only one.
Andrew: Wand choreographer Micah T. All right, I’m done.
Laura: Hey, that sounds like a great alternate career path. Maybe we can all look into that.
Eric: If Micah and Laura get married, Micah takes her name and becomes Micah Tee.
[Micah laughs]
Andrew: Well, they are already married; that’s why…
Laura: I don’t think that’s where Andrew was going with that.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Oh, okay.
Andrew: No, I was just abbreviating his… I don’t know if Micah brings up his last name on the show anymore, so I just played it safe.
Laura: So anyway, Voldemort briefly possesses Harry, and it’s kind of a full circle moment because in the earlier parts of Order of the Phoenix, Harry was very concerned that he was being possessed by Voldemort, and remember, Ginny has to confront him about this and ask him all of these questions so that she can then say, “Hey, if you’re not losing time, if you’re not blacking out and then waking up doing weird shit like having strangled chickens, you’re probably not being possessed by Voldemort,” but Harry actually gets to feel that here.
Andrew and Eric: Yeah.
Eric: It’s excruciating.
Andrew: And this is just a heartbreaking scene and moment to read and watch. It just… and with the movie, it’s illustrating what’s going on with dramatic music, and Harry’s face. Harry is being used by Voldemort after being tricked earlier, falling into his trap, and all Dumbledore can do is watch. It’s just so sad. It’s one of those scenes that sticks with me.
Eric: I do like seeing Dumbledore at a loss here, because he is for a little bit.
Micah: I do like the way the movie did it with the montage, but I also really liked in the book how it’s Sirius and only Sirius that loosens Voldemort’s grip on Harry…
Laura: Yep.
Micah: … and the fact that Voldemort can’t even stand a little bit of compassion speaks volumes. I get for a viewer, seeing that montage of all of the happy moments in Harry’s last five years at Hogwarts, it hits home, but for a reader… I’m wondering, too, with the TV show, how might they choose to adapt this? Because the fact that the loss of Sirius is so fresh in Harry’s mind, but yet him thinking of him immediately conjures these positive emotions, throws Voldemort completely off in this moment. So we’ll see what happens. I figured you would appreciate that, Eric.
Eric: I do, yeah.
Micah: And we get to see Sirius one more time.
Eric: Yeah, it is meaningful to me, and seeing how quickly… what I didn’t really remember… it’s not just painful for Voldemort, but he pulls right out. He gets away. He’s gone in, like, three seconds after Harry thinks of Sirius, so it’s that strong of a memory, or a love. So I really like that.
Laura: And before we get that moment, I just want to connect another thread here. So before Harry starts thinking of Sirius and ultimately causes Voldemort to just shrivel up and go away, Voldemort is speaking through Harry to Dumbledore and saying, “Kill me. End it.” And this time approximately a year from now, Dumbledore is going to be saying the same thing to Harry in the cave.
Eric: Ah!
Laura: So there’s just a lot of foreshadowing happening here in this chapter that I didn’t necessarily see until I did this reread, unless we talked about this last time and I just forgot. [laughs]
Andrew: It’s possible.
Laura: But it feels like one of those things that you just get something new out of the story every time you read it.
Andrew and Eric: Yeah.
Eric: I like that.
Andrew: That’s the beauty of it.
Laura: And Fudge rounds out this chapter with the classic “He’s back!” moment, although I think… is that a movie-ism?
Andrew: It is.
Eric: It’s a movie-ism.
Laura: I mean, that’s the vibe.
Andrew: [laughs] And the truth.
Eric: Yeah, it’s not just the vibe, but I love how in the movie it feels from Robert Hardy that he says it out loud in spite of himself, and it’s obviously… it works on seven different levels, because it’s funny for the audience to be like, “Haha, he’s talking out loud when he didn’t mean to!” But it’s that shock, because you see the insight into his character that he really actually didn’t believe Voldemort was back. We like to believe the ones that are denying it know he’s back but are secretly pretending they don’t know, but that scene in the movie shows that he really kind of is surprised by it, and it – because he said that out loud – forces his hand to acknowledge it and be like, “Okay,” where in the book he still has a choice to kind of deny it, and he doesn’t. So it’s more succinct in the movie, but I like it.
Micah: It’s the complete opposite of what transpired at the end of Goblet of Fire, where Dumbledore gave him the opportunity to come on board the “Voldemort is back” train, and Fudge decided, “Eh, I’m good.”
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: “That seems hard.”
Andrew: “I’m good. I’ll pass.”
Laura: Yeah. Well, and yeah, last book Dumbledore was giving all of these orders to the Order, right? Because Fudge was not being cooperative, and now Fudge is bumbling and doesn’t quite know what to do, but also understands that he can’t really do anything to Dumbledore at this point. And Dumbledore, like, really teachers him.
[Eric laughs]
Laura: He pulls a teacher moment on him, and he’s like, “I will give you exactly 30 minutes of my time tonight, but just a second; I gotta get Harry back to school.”
Micah: “Listen, Corny.”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: “I’m running the show now.”
Laura: He literally time-boxed the Minister of Magic. Just the vibe or the mood of this person, Dumbledore, who really a lot of people thought should have been the Minister of Magic, being the person that the current Minister leans on through a lot of his insecurities around his readiness for the role.
Eric: Yeah. Well, it’s just now you know the… you’re beginning to sense the level at which you screwed up all year. “Since I’ve been right all along, here’s what we’re going to do about it.” And the only reason Fudge doesn’t push back is because he literally doesn’t know what to do, and is completely incapable of coming up with any independent thought.
Andrew: He’s in shock, too, I guess.
Eric: He needs to be told what to do.
Superlative of the Week
Laura: Well, all right, we’re going to go ahead and get into our MVP of the Week. This is a more classic MVP question: Who was the MVP in the Dumbledore/Voldemort battle? And they are not the only two choices. There were clearly…
Andrew: But I did go with one of those choices.
Laura: Yeah, go for it.
Andrew: I went with Dumbledore. [singing] “Taking care of business, every day!”
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: Sorry, I’ve got to stick up for my man.
Eric: You could have surprised us, Andrew, and gone with Voldemort, but you didn’t.
Andrew: [laughs] No, I would never betray Dumbledore in that way.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: So you guys have more clever picks.
Eric: Yeah, I’m going to give… look, I think the MVP was actually Bellatrix. She really gets her moment to shine in this moment. Even though what she did to Sirius in the last chapter is unforgivable, gotta give it to her, because she gets her close-up here.
Micah: I decided to go with Fawkes…
Andrew: Good one.
Micah: … because he’s just out here taking AKs every day.
Andrew: Yeah, that’s fair.
Eric: But where did he come from? He’s just here?
Andrew: Well, who brought Fawkes? It was Dumbledore.
[Eric laughs]
Micah: Well, does he have a choice?
Eric: No, Fawkes doesn’t even want to be there.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: Meanwhile… I really do hope Dumbledore scooped him up before he came back to Hogwarts.
Andrew: [imitating Dumbledore] “My little birdie.”
Laura: He’s just a little baby.
Andrew: Yeah, I’m sure he pocketed him and brought him back to school.
Micah: I hope so.
Laura: I went with Dumbledore’s hype gang, the house-elf and the goblin.
Eric: Oh, yeah!
[Andrew and Micah laugh]
Laura: You know what it honestly made me think of? And I don’t even know where this connection was made. It made me think of Timmy and Tommy from Animal Crossing…
Micah: Oh, yeah. [laughs]
Laura: … and how they would stand there and just clap emphatically.
Andrew: Oh, yeah. “Bella-ella!” The second one always repeats.
[Laura laughs]
Lynx Line
Laura: And now we’re going to get into our Lynx Line. MuggleCast listeners who are members of our community over at Patreon.com/MuggleCast have answered this week’s question: What is your “Max that” moment of this chapter?
Andrew: So Michele said,
“I want to see an updated and even more epic duel between Dumbledore and Voldemort. It is a fantastic scene that hopefully can be made even better.”
Eric: Rachel says,
“I want to see Bellatrix telling Harry that he has to mean it when he tries to Cruciatus Curse. That’s such a big moment for Harry’s character, using one of these awful spells because he’s so angry at her and hurt at the loss of Sirius. I’m also so excited, and nervous, to see who will be cast as Bellatrix. I’d love it to be Maisie Williams.”
Andrew: That’d be cool. Game of Thrones.
Laura: Oooh.
Micah: Is she old enough?
Laura: She might be a bit young.
Eric: Eh, maybe Sophie Turner.
Andrew: Well, what about five years from now?
Micah: Oh, that’s true.
Laura: I think she and Sophie Turner are the same age. Are they not?
Eric: What?!
Andrew: Maisie is 28, so she’s like, low 30s. They can probably… isn’t Maisie Williams kind of short? I feel like they need somebody taller for Bellatrix.
Micah: Just bring back Helena Bonham Carter.
[Andrew and Micah laugh]
Andrew: She’d probably be down for it.
Laura: Honestly, I’ll allow it. She was great.
Micah: And it is important, though, that Bellatrix is the one who says this to Harry, because it’s actually Voldemort in the movie, right? Who tells him he has to mean it.
Andrew: Oh, yeah.
Micah: Matthew says, “Harry trying the Unforgivable. And failing! Even with all his rage and pain, it is just. Not. Enough.”
Andrew and Laura: Yeah.
Eric: Harry is just too pure.
Laura: Roshni says,
“I want to see Neville’s heroism in this chapter. This is a pivotal moment for Neville’s character development! He doesn’t give up, even when he messes up a bit. We need to see the DA training pan out for all of the characters, not just Harry.”
Micah: Amen.
Eric: Actually, that’s a huge call-out, because in a TV show that can devote more time to this, you will see the kids be better at magic at the end than they are at the beginning.
Andrew: Well, and especially with the prophecy, I think we really needed to spend more time with Neville and let people talk about that. Kyle said,
“I want to see the Order, and particularly rest of the Weasley clan, realizing what happened and their response, something I’ve never really seen covered in fanfic with any depth.”
Eric: Carina says, “I would love to see Dumbledore bring the Fountain of Brethren to life.” I agree.
Micah: And finally, Forty says, “This is one of the best chapters in the series, and possibly Dumbledore’s best moment in the series.”
Andrew: [imitating Dumbledore] “Damn right!”
Micah: “It would be nice if they captured the power he radiates in the chapter during his interaction with Voldemort and during his single-handed subduing of most of the Death Eaters.”
Andrew: [imitating Dumbledore] “Get my good side.”
Micah: “You feel almost none of that in the film.”
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: “Blastoise! Water beam!”
Andrew: The Lynx Line is a great way to have your voice heard on the show, whether or not you’re listening live. [imitating Dumbledore] “And to talk about me and how great I am.” [back to normal voice] We ask a new question every week, and we invite you to become a member of our community by visiting Patreon.com/MuggleCast and pledging for as little as $5 a month. Remember, this is the best time of year to pledge. Become a Slug Club member and you’ll get the new book, plus a 20% discount if you sign up for an annual membership. If you have any feedback about today’s episode, you can email or send a voice memo to MuggleCast@gmail.com. We love hearing y’all, so please keep those Voice Memos coming in. And like I said earlier, we will be off next week because of Labor Day here in the United States, but two weeks from now on MuggleCast, Order of the Phoenix Chapter 37, “The Lost Prophecy.” And I was looking at the chapter art for this next chapter. Damn, does Dumbledore look tired! Oh my God! I didn’t realize that before. That’s all.
Micah: He shouldn’t be; he’s been off the last few months.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Andrew: He had to run around the Department of Mysteries, close his rings.
Eric: I think he’s tired because a kid keeps destroying his most precious possessions, and he’s not worried about the possessions, but he’s going to have to go and Reparo all of those.
Andrew: Patreon aside, if you’re looking for other ways to support us, please visit MuggleCastMerch.com to buy official show gear, including limited time Patreon gifts from years past. We would also appreciate if you left us a review in your favorite podcast app, and please do tell a fellow Muggle about the show. Finally, visit MuggleCast.com for quick access to all of this information. And if you’re looking for more podcasting from the four of us, listen to our other shows, Millennial and What the Hype?!, for more pop culture and real world talk.
Quizzitch
Andrew: And now to wrap up today’s episode, it’s time for Quizzitch.
[Quizzitch music plays]
Eric: This week’s question: This chapter, Ron gets up close and personal with a human brain when he catches one in his hands. How much does the human brain weigh on average, in pounds? This was, once again, a multiple choice question. Is the correct answer A) seven pounds, B) five pounds, C) three pounds, or D) one pound? How much does a human brain weigh on average, in pounds? The correct answer was C) three pounds, and 50% of people with the correct answer said that they didn’t look it up. That’s pretty impressive. Correct answers were submitted by A Derivative From the Masses; A Healthy Breeze; Bony Pony Express; Dumbledore lie count; FortyFortyFo; IDon’tGiveaCorneliusOswaldFudge; Justice! You didn’t read my name the last episode! Regards, Scoliosis Centaur; Kayla the Hufflepuff; My Boyfriend’s Name Is Also Harry; Patronus Seeker; QuiddWitch; Salt Air and Dumbledore, Never Needed Anything More; The answer wasn’t seven or twelve? Laura!!; and What do you think of Wednesday S2; and Tofu Tom. Well, for Wednesday S2, stay tuned to What the Hype?!, our other podcast on pop culture. But thanks to all of those folks for submitting, and here is next week’s Quizzitch question: In this chapter, the statues of the Fountain of Magical Brethren spring to life to help save the day, but in the summer of 1985, widespread panic occurred when statues in County Cork, Ireland began to seemingly move on their own! What were they statues of, exactly? Submit your answer to us on the Quizzitch form located on the MuggleCast website, MuggleCast.com/Quizzitch. If you’re already visiting the site – maybe checking out transcripts, or the wall of fame, must listens page – click on “Quizzitch” from the main nav.
Andrew: I would also like to remind our listening audience that if you have any feedback, you don’t have to submit it through the name field on the Quizzitch form. You could use the contact form, or the YouTube comments, or the Spotify comments section…
Eric: [laughs] Peace and love!
Andrew: [imitating Ringo Starr] With peace and love, peace and love, you can send feedback that way! [back to normal voice] Sometimes people conflate the two, it seems like.
Eric: That’s it, Andrew; they’re looking for an outlet, and they don’t know about the feedback form or the email address or anything.
Andrew: There is a separate contact form, yeah, believe it or not.
Laura: I think they’re just having fun.
Andrew: I know they are. I’m just playing.
Eric: That’s very fun.
Laura: Don’t yuck their yum.
Andrew: All right. [laughs] Careful what you wish for; now everybody’s going to submit through the Quizzitch form.
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: Their questions, their deep dive questions.
Eric: [imitating Ringo Starr] It will not be read! Peace and love!
Andrew: And since we are off next week and September 1 is just around the corner, just wanted to say to y’all, enjoy your ride back to Hogwarts.
Micah: Choo-choo.
Andrew: Thanks, everyone, for listening. I’m Andrew.
Eric: I’m Eric.
Micah: I’m Micah.
Laura: And I’m Laura.
Andrew: Bye, everyone!
Eric, Laura, and Micah: Bye.