Transcript for MuggleCast Episode #760, “Burbage Burgers (DH Chapter 1, ‘The Dark Lord Ascending’)”
Cold Open
Micah: Portraits almost seem beneath Voldemort.
Andrew: [imitating Voldemort] “I hate art!”
Laura: Actually. [laughs]
Show Intro
[Show music plays]
Andrew Sims: Welcome to MuggleCast, your weekly ride into the world of Harry Potter. I’m Andrew.
Eric Scull: I’m Eric.
Micah Tannenbaum: I’m Micah.
Laura Tee: And I’m Laura.
Andrew: And this week, it’s an exciting new chapter on MuggleCast, because we’re diving into Deathly Hallows Chapter by Chapter. And we hope you brought your appetite, because we’re joining Nagini for dinner and discussing Chapter 1 of Deathly Hallows, “The Dark Lord Ascending.” But first, this week’s Quizzitch question.
[Quizzitch music plays]
Eric: In this chapter, we’re going to be introduced to Hogwarts’s now former Muggle Studies professor, Charity Burbage. There are at least two other characters in the wizarding world universe with the initials CB. Name them! Bonus points if you get three of them. All right, we will ask you for that answer again at the end of this episode.
Micah: And just want to let our listeners know, for those who are patrons, that year five of the MuggleCast Collector’s Club stickers have shipped, so keep an eye on your mailbox. There should be an owl on the way with your stickers.
Andrew: Hoo-hoo!
Micah: And we’re excited about this. This is the final year. The set is complete.
Andrew: Five years we’ve been doing this. And honestly, this set is the best one yet. I know you hear that a lot in marketing, but really, it is the best one yet.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: It’s the use of pastel colors, I think. We were late to adopt, and they really work.
Andrew: Those are going out to patrons, and patrons make this show possible, so if you love MuggleCast as much as Bellatrix loves Voldemort, head over to Patreon.com/MuggleCast and support us today. And to thank you, you’ll receive bonus episodes of the show, ad-free episodes, a monthly Zoom hangout with us and your fellow Potter friends once a month, an on-air shout-out, and lots more. We can’t do this without you, so thank you in advance. And thanks to our newest patrons, including Drew and Arshely! We’d also appreciate if you left us a review in your favorite podcast app or told a fellow Muggle about our show. And you can visit MuggleCastMerch.com to buy official show gear, like a “Choo-choo” shirt or a “Security Nightmare” hat. So before we jump into Deathly Hallows Chapter by Chapter, I like to take a moment before the start of each Chapter by Chapter series to look back at the release of the book that we’re about to discuss. So Deathly Hallows was released on July 21, 2007, and all four of us, and surely many of our listeners, attended midnight release parties. It holds the Guinness World Record for most novels sold within 24 hours of release, with 8.3 million sold in the US and 2.65 million sold in the UK. And by June 2008, nearly a year after it was published, worldwide sales were reportedly around 44 million! And the stat that blows my mind, y’all, is that we last did Chapter by Chapter for Deathly Hallows back in 2007. It’s been nearly 20 years since we’ve gone through this book chapter by chapter.
Eric and Micah: Wow.
Laura: Holy cow.
Andrew: And my memory of this book shows that, so I very much look forward to going chapter by chapter through this book again.
Laura: Same.
Eric: Oh, yeah. I’ve been looking forward to doing Deathly Hallows since we started this most recent Chapter by Chapter series six books ago, and now I’m like, “Finally!”
Andrew: [imitating Dumbledore] “After all this time.”
Eric: Very excited.
Andrew: We also recently did do a bonus MuggleCast episode exclusively available on Patreon reflecting on the midnight release of Deathly Hallows, so check that out at Patreon.com/MuggleCast.
Eric: We were also… was this on a hangout? We were recently talking about the vandalized Harry Potter book, Deathly Hallows, that we wrote on somebody’s front cover, and it got around to us via a secondhand store.
Laura: Right.
Eric: So I was reminded of that recent story where somebody posted and was like, “Who are these people that wrote in this book that I found? Is it just kids being kids or whatever?” And it was us. It was us. Well, I opened up, for this Chapter by Chapter series, my original Deathly Hallows UK edition that we got that night, and what should I find? I had totally forgotten that we did this.
Laura: You had us sign it?
Eric: I had all of us sign it, yeah.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: Wow.
Eric: And it says, “This book belongs to Eric James Scull and was received on July 21, 2007 at 12:01 a.m. during the VIP party of the Waterstones book release celebration, London. In attendance were also Andrew Sims. Here lions abound,” which is what Jamie wrote. “To see this with you and the others has been a dream, Laura Thompson.” Aww.
Andrew: Aww, Laura.
Eric: And “It has been amazing! Kevin Steck.” It’s just so lovely to read that.
Andrew: And then Eric was like, “Hey, you guys, do you want me to sign your book?” And we were like, “No, no, no, that’s okay.” [laughs]
Eric: This is the only one in existence, therefore, with our signatures, and it’s a… you will not find this in a thrift store.
Micah: It’s funny that you said that, Eric, because I actually read the same copy. I chose this, and this actually, I believe, came back from Waterstones Piccadilly from one of you all, because I was not there.
Andrew: Ohh.
Laura: Right.
Eric: It must have been Kevin. He was the most thoughtful. [laughs]
Micah: And inside… do you have these? I didn’t even know these were in there. They’re stamps.
Andrew: Oh!
Eric: What?
Micah: With every book cover.
Andrew: That’s cool.
Laura: That is really cool.
Andrew: That must have been a giveaway that night, I would think. The rest of us left them behind or something.
Laura: I don’t remember that.
Micah: It’s probably worth something, right?
Andrew: Yeah, I’d check that out.
Eric: Somebody very thoughtful brought you that book back, and it wasn’t any of us. [laughs]
Laura: Yeah, it definitely wasn’t. I feel like Kevin might have been right for that because wasn’t he living in Europe at the time? I don’t know. I’m just thinking of who would have been able to go out and buy postage stamps. You know what I mean?
Andrew: Oh, cool. That’s very cool.
Eric: Wild.
Micah: One other fun fact: On the day we’re recording this episode, yesterday – so June 26 – actually marks the 29th anniversary of the release of Sorcerer’s Stone.
Andrew: Oh. US?
Laura: Wow.
Micah: US. Actually, I have to check that. But I saw it on social media.
Eric: HP is almost 30.
Micah: I know.
Laura: Like us, right?
[Everyone laughs]
Micah: Yeah, just like us.
Eric: Yeah, almost 30 is how I would describe us, yes, as well.
Chapter by Chapter: Seven-Word Summary
Andrew: So with this Deathly Hallows Chapter by Chapter reread, we are bringing back the most stressful game in podcasting: Seven-Word Summary.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: In this mini-game, to warm us up for the forthcoming discussion, the hosts will each contribute a word to a seven-word sentence in a predetermined order. If the music ends before we’ve completed the sentence, the sentence ends at that spot, so if we only make it up to five words, that’s where it ends. So it might end up being a five- or six-word summary without a conclusion, and that’s sad, so we’ve got to do better than that. We have about 30-40 seconds to complete this, and if we don’t complete it, the MuggleCasters will have failed, and we’ll be the laughing stock of the Harry Potter fandom. We did decide during a previous Chapter by Chapter run where we were doing this that “Harry” cannot be a starting word for the sentence.
Eric: It’s too easy, yes.
Andrew: Those are the two ground rules. Laura, you’re going to kick things off, and here we go!
[Seven-Word Summary music plays]
Laura: Voldemort…
Micah: … hosts…
Eric: … his…
Andrew: … people…
Laura: … menacingly…
Micah: … around…
[prolonged silence]
Micah: [whispers] … table.
Eric: … updates.
Andrew: Oh.
Laura: There we go.
Andrew: I thought… okay, I thought we were going for “Charity.”
Eric: Ohh.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: That would have been… like, the character.
Eric: Can we redo this?
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: No, it’s one and done. That’s the fun of it.
Eric: No, I’m taking it back. I’m taking it back.
Andrew and Laura: No.
Andrew: You ruined it. [laughs]
Laura: This is the fun of the Seven-Word Summary.
Andrew: We’re the laughing stock of the fandom.
Laura: No, this is the fun of it.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: That’s probably the worst one I’ve ever contributed to. I feel so bad. You gave me such a place of prominence.
Andrew: Well, it’s the first one.
Eric: All right.
Andrew: We’re just warming up. It’s okay.
Laura: Eric, don’t worry. I don’t know if you remember, Eric, I am famously bad at the Seven-Word Summary, so there are going to be 40-something opportunities for me to show you up, so don’t even worry about it.
Eric: Okay, all right, all right. The bar has been set in the floor, everybody.
Chapter by Chapter: Main Discussion
Laura: We’re going to go ahead and get into this chapter. This is another chapter in this series where the first chapter of the book does not take place from Harry’s point of view. So of course, this is something I think we can connect the threads to back to Book 1, if we’re thinking about connecting the threads between 1 and 7, 2 and 6, 3 and 5. But these also aren’t the only books where this happens; we know it also happens in Goblet of Fire, as well as in the last book, Half-Blood Prince. But what is unique about this one is that this chapter begins with a meeting of the Dark side. I think we’re so used to seeing meetings of the Order at this point that now getting to see the inner goings-on of Voldemort and his circle sets a very different tone for this book. In particular, we start with Snape and Yaxley arriving at Malfoy Manor to give some updates to Voldemort about a couple of pretty key missions that they’ve been assigned.
Eric: I’m stunned by how up close and personal we are with Severus Snape here. I mean, this is two books in a row where the books have really opened with what Snape is up to, but especially given the events of Half-Blood Prince and what we just saw Snape do, the wound is still fresh for us. And here in this chapter, we walk along with him and Yaxley. We’re close enough to smell Snape’s breath…
Andrew, Laura, and Micah: Ew.
Eric: … and to me, it’s too close for comfort.
Andrew and Micah: Yeah.
Andrew: Not to mention that hair. But I think it is, for the reader, an ominous reminder of where Snape may or may not stand. We were, of course, entering this book wondering if he was good or bad, and so you open with Snape walking with Yaxley, and you don’t know whose side he’s really on, so it’s just kind of an ominous start.
Eric: It’s a great opportunity watching him play the game, though, too, because he gives actionable information that ends up being the right information to Voldemort. So it’s as if we’re watching him openly betray Harry and the Order, as if it’s supposed to convince us he’s a bad guy.
Andrew: That’s what you’ve got to do. Fake it till you make it.
[Laura and Micah laugh]
Eric: That’s right.
Micah: I do like the fact that the author gives it to the reader right off the bat.
Eric and Laura: Yes.
Micah: You’re with Snape. There’s no separation. You don’t have to wait ten chapters to see what’s going on; you’re thrown right into it.
Andrew: And you see Snape very little for a long time in this book.
Eric and Laura: Yeah.
Eric: Well, that’s true. A lot of the things he does are behind the scenes. But the other thing is that this is the Voldemort book where he will eventually die for good, or he will kill Harry, so spending this much time with Voldemort as well is huge. Watching how he treats everyone, how he favors certain Death Eaters over others, how cruel he is, to how amenable he is to just torture, how that doesn’t bother him at all with the Muggle Studies professor… all these things, it sets up Voldemort in a huge way. It sets up Voldemort’s character in a way that’s setting the stage for us to get to know him a little bit better, so that we can enjoy watching him fail.
Laura: Yeah. Well, we’re definitely going to dig a little bit more into the plan; we’re also going to chat about Yaxley a little bit too. But before we get there, something I wanted to call out is when Snape and Yaxley walk into the entrance hall, they’re clearly the last two to arrive for this Dark little gathering. It’s noted that multiple portraits take notice of them walking into the hall, but that they watch silently. I’m literally imagining just the emoji side eyes just watching them walk in.
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: And I have to wonder, is this not a security nightmare for the Dark side? Because there is potential here for some two-dimensional double agents…
Andrew: Oooh.
Laura: … especially since we know there are some portraits that can travel.
Micah: Right.
Laura: Not all of them can.
Micah: It’s a great observation. Portraits almost seem beneath Voldemort, in terms of paying attention to them.
Andrew: [imitating Voldemort] “I hate art!”
Laura: Actually. [laughs] Oh, man.
Micah: Do you know what I mean?
Andrew: No, I don’t. Seriously, I don’t. Go ahead.
Micah: Well, I agree with what Laura is saying. It could be a potential security risk for these portraits to be watching what’s going on, but I almost feel like, as Voldemort often does with things that he considers beneath him, he would overlook the possibility of portraits being a security risk.
Andrew: Hmm.
Eric: I’m thinking of Phineas Nigellus Black, who we are told that Sirius’s family were all very, very much Dark wizards or into Voldemort. They would have supported him; they thought he had the right idea. Phineas Nigellus Black, being a former headmaster of Hogwarts, though, really occupies that double agent role where he has a portrait at Hogwarts, he’s reported to Dumbledore multiple times that we’ve seen throughout the books, and he’s helping along with the trio, I think even later in this book, but he could have been present for any of their secrets, right? He could have kept somebody in the Order of the Phoenix apprised of what the Blacks were doing if they were still alive. But with the Malfoys, I’m tending to think that whatever portraits are there… because none of them were hung up this year, right? They were always there. None of the portraits that were in Malfoy Manor have betrayed the Malfoys that we’ve seen in the past. They had all these illegal things under their floorboards. They had really an opportunity prior to this to blow a whistle, but the only thing we got about that for the Malfoys is the house-elf who defected, basically, and spilled the secrets, so I think these portraits have been vetted, is what I’m saying.
Andrew: Yeah, and I was going to say, any portraits in any wizard’s home, I would think, are vetted and very… you trust these portraits. Because these people are potentially listening in to your conversations 24/7.
Eric: Honestly, that’d be creepy.
Andrew: Yeah, potentially watching you walk around naked. I don’t know if I’ve ever told you guys before, but as a child – I’m dead serious – I used to turn the photos around in my bedroom when I was changing because I was afraid they were looking at me.
Eric: That’s very cute.
Andrew: I did not trust my Muggle photos. [laughs] So I can’t imagine how witches and wizards feel.
Eric: What about your stuffed animals? Because Toy Story really did a number on my head too.
Andrew: Yeah, fair.
Laura: Oh, man.
Micah: And now you’re just totally fine with it, right?
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: Oh, yeah.
Micah: Doesn’t bother you at all.
Andrew: I dance naked in front of photos all the time.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: The portraits are getting a free show.
Andrew: That’s called growth. [laughs] That sounds weird.
Micah: Yeah, well, you said it.
[Ad break]
Laura: I do like the angle that Micah presents here, which is to say that something like this could actually represent another downfall for Voldemort, another way that he underestimates the world around him and the risks that are presented to him, much in the same way that he poopoos the idea of love being this kind of magic that he can’t overcome, right? So I think this is one of those things where it’s like, yeah, probably all the portraits the Malfoys have up in their house are good, and by good I mean bad, but all it takes is one. All it takes is one to defect; all it takes is one to have loose lips. We know that portraits can get drunk, for example.
Eric: Oh, yeah.
Laura: But I think all of that speaks to why there are clearly no portraits in the room where they’re meeting, which is very key. But this still means that the portraits can see who’s coming and going, which I think could still be a liability for them. But I agree, he doesn’t care.
Eric: Well, I can see them when they infiltrate the Ministry taking some photos down, because there’s going to be plenty of portraits that aren’t inclined to be loyal to Voldemort at all.
Laura: Right, for sure. Well, when they arrive, Snape and Yaxley get into giving their updates to Voldemort. Snape’s, of course, pertains to Harry, not named in this week’s Seven-Word Summary. And Snape confirms for Voldemort that Harry is going to be moved to a secure location, probably to a member of the Order’s home, the following Saturday without using any magical transport means that can be monitored by the Ministry. And this is where I want to talk a little bit about Yaxley. I don’t know what Yaxley is doing here. I can’t tell if he’s trying to one-up Snape or if he’s trying to size him up a little bit if he doesn’t totally trust him yet, because on the way in, Snape basically says, “Yeah, I have a good update.” And Yaxley is like, “Are you sure? Are you certain about that?” And then after Snape delivers this update, Yaxley pipes up and is like, “Actually, I heard differently. I think he’s wrong.” So I’m wondering if he’s both trying to cover for the fact that he’s a little bit behind schedule on his mission of infiltrating the Ministry by not letting Snape overshadow him, or if there’s also an element here of Yaxley not 100% trusting Snape yet.
Andrew: I think it’s the latter. I don’t think he trusts Snape yet, and he’s trying to prove that he is actually in a better position than Snape is to Voldemort, and it’s really delicious watching these two kind of have a info-off with Voldemort.
Eric: [laughs] Right. Well, I have sort of a third angle, which is that the stakes couldn’t be higher for each of them. No one wants to be the one to give the wrong info to the Dark Lord, so if Yaxley really did hear differently, now is the time to say it, right? Because it covers Yaxley’s own ass. So I like the idea, too, that maybe it’s a one-upmanship game, but I’m wondering if… I think that Yaxley is mostly just doing his duty as a follower to report what he heard, and then Snape is going to have to convince Voldemort either way.
Andrew: Just quickly, I’ll say Yaxley must really not trust Snape if he’s willing to put his reputation on the line by sharing this information and disagreeing with Snape, because Voldemort could potentially kill him for having the wrong info.
Eric: That’s true.
Andrew: “Clearly, Yaxley,” he’ll learn later, “doesn’t have good sources, so why am I keeping this guy around?”
Eric: That’s a good point.
Laura: Yeah, but also why not bring it up when you’re walking into Malfoy Manor? Clearly, you already know what you’ve heard. Why not tell Snape in that moment? “Hey, I know you’re working on this thing. This is what I heard. Is that what you heard?” But he waits to bring it up until they’re in front of Voldemort and the entire evil council.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Yeah, they’ve got to get away from all the listening portraits with the prying ears.
Laura: Right. [laughs]
Micah: What I find interesting about Yaxley is that he was Death Eater number four on the Astronomy Tower…
Eric: Ohh.
Micah: … so it’s a little bit confusing to me as to why he wouldn’t trust Snape after he witnessed Snape kill Dumbledore. But what it says to me, though, from Voldemort’s perspective, is that he doesn’t trust anybody. He has multiple people out there trying to source the same information, and then having those individuals bring it back to him, and ultimately deciding who he trusts more, right?
Andrew: Ultimately – you hear this in business a lot – competition is good. That’s kind of what Voldemort is thinking here. Pit them against one another, have them both scrambling to find information, and somebody, hopefully, is going to be correct.
Laura: You know what’s funny? It’s kind of like Dumbledore. Dumbledore kind of does the same thing, where he has multiple people chasing down pieces of the same puzzle, but he doesn’t give everybody the same information.
Micah: But he doesn’t do it through fear. That’s the…
Laura: No, no, no. He just does it through manipulation. [laughs]
Eric: Yeah, he’s not going to be angry with you, Dumbledore won’t be. He’ll just be disappointed if you don’t do what he asks.
Laura: Right. I think it is a good point to bring up, though, that it’s pretty clear that Voldemort has more trust in some than others, and I think him specifically, one, having saved a seat for Snape right next to him…
[Eric laughs]
Laura: … but two, when he and Yaxley come in the room, he’s like, “Severus, sit by me. Yaxley…”
[Andrew and Micah laugh]
Andrew: [imitating Voldemort] “Severus, come here! Come here!”
Eric: You ever do this at the lunch table when two kids were coming over and there’s one you clearly want to chat with, and the other you’re like, “Get away from the…”?
Andrew: Oh, yeah. Or even my nephews are like, “Sit with me, Uncle Andrew!”
Micah: Voldemort likes Snape’s musk, that’s what it is.
Andrew: [laughs] Yeah, that wouldn’t surprise me.
Micah: And just wants him…
Eric: The musty fug…
Laura: Well, I guess if we can smell his breath, maybe that’s something.
Eric: Voldy likes it.
Micah: What I love about this, though, is that Snape sits at Voldemort’s right hand side.
Andrew: Literal right hand man. And Voldemort stares into Snape’s eyes with ferocity for a moment…
Micah: It’s love.
Andrew: … when Snape shares the information – maybe – about when the Order is moving Harry, and this is obviously Voldemort reading Snape’s mind to see if he’s being truthful or not. And of course, Snape can pull this off, this reading.
Micah: Yep. He’s seeing what Snape wants him to see, and that’s what’s so awesome about this moment. Snape is a amazing Occlumens, and what he’s allowing Voldemort to see in this moment happens to be the truth, but there’s obviously so much more that Snape is hiding from Voldemort, and Snape’s ability to compartmentalize is truly impressive. As we’ll learn later on in this book, all the things that he’s keeping, he’s able to isolate in this moment so that Voldemort only sees what Snape wants him to see.
Eric: Yeah. I think on the list of very good Legilimens that we know, Dumbledore is up there, but Voldemort is the best, because Voldemort is cruel enough to really extract any information he wants. And for Occlumens, Snape. There’s no better, because we witness him. It’s so impressive to watch Snape pass the test, essentially, right here in front of everybody. Because he would have been fed to the snake immediately next if he failed!
Laura: Right. Well, I don’t know that we would classify this as failure. I think Voldemort kind of lets it slide a little bit, but it’s also clear he’s not pleased. Yaxley’s mission is to bring the Minister of Magic, Scrimgeour, down by surrounding him with Imperiused Ministry officials, and he’s just kind of running a little behind schedule. Basically, what comes up in this conversation about Harry being moved to this undisclosed location, probably a home of the member of the Order, where Snape basically says, “Our only window to get him is in transit. Once he gets there, between the Order and the Ministry, there’s just going to be too many protections for us to try to attack him there.” And Voldemort turns to Yaxley and is like, “Well, will we have the Ministry by next Saturday?” And Yaxley is basically like, “No, probably not.” So it’s clear to me that Yaxley has something to prove here at the bare minimum. But something I also thought was interesting is that Snape confirms that the Aurors’ office is no longer playing a role in protecting Harry, as the Order correctly believes that the Ministry has been infiltrated by Death Eaters, and we also get confirmation from the table that this belief is accurate. I think someone pipes up and is like, “Well, they’re right about that, huh?”
Micah: I did want to ask, though: Do we feel like any of this is a lie? Do we feel that Snape is… he’s being truthful, but he’s not sharing all the information? For example, if in fact Voldemort and his Death Eaters wanted to attack the Burrow, they probably could.
Andrew: Oh, yeah.
Micah: And I think they probably have way more ability in that moment than they do when they come to attack Hogwarts later on with all the defenses that are put up there, so I almost wonder if Snape is giving Voldemort just enough information, but maybe not all the information.
Eric: Yeah, that tracks.
Laura: It’s like trickle truth, a little bit.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: Trickle truth.
Eric: That’s a good episode title. Something that I really appreciated reading was just how actually precarious it is. You’re meant to think the Dark side is clearly winning, and being able to Imperius Pius Thicknesse is the first domino, and we’re meant to believe the Ministry will fall any day now. But again, kind of what I said before about the stakes not being any higher, Voldemort himself says that if they fail on this mission, if Yaxley fails, not only is he a dead man, but Voldemort is going to be set back months. So if Scrimgeour gets any word at all that anything that they’re doing is actually going on, he is going to be able to be on the defensive, and so the key is to do this subtly, and the key is to do this without arousing Scrimgeour’s suspicion. And so there was actually a lot more subtlety than I remembered there being as far as having to… because I often think negatively of Scrimgeour as like, “Ah, that dude failed. He sucked as Minister and probably wasn’t even a great head of the Auror office when he was an Auror, because he lost.” But really, no, there’s just so many people working to bring down the Ministry that eventually, even the best Auror, like Moody or Scrimgeour, just doesn’t stand a chance in the end.
Laura: I do like the point that’s brought up about subtlety. I think a key part of Voldemort’s plan at this point is to lead Ministry officials, the ones that aren’t on his side, to think that they still have control and power…
Eric: Yes, 100%.
Laura: … and to let them operate under that assumption for as long as possible, so that he can fly under the radar, even though everyone knows he’s back at this point. [laughs] It’s not a secret anymore.
Eric: Right. No, that’s the clever… what’s that saying? The greatest trick he ever pulled is convincing the world he didn’t exist, and it’s like he’s just in the background somewhere. “He’s not really here; he couldn’t be here on our doorstep. Wait, whoops.”
Andrew: So what stuck out to me here is that for someone with such a huge ego and who thinks very highly of himself – in fact, Laura was joking a few weeks ago about how weird it was that Tom Riddle started calling himself a lord at 15 – it’s so interesting that Voldemort actually admits to his Death Eaters that he’s made some mistakes as it’s pertained to Harry Potter. He specifically says, “Some of the mistakes have been mine.” He owns it. And this is fascinating to me…
Micah: That’s progress, Andrew.
Andrew: That is progress. That’s growth. It’s fascinating to me because he reminds us of some people in the political world who could never admit when they’re wrong.
Eric: Oh, yeah.
Andrew: At least Voldemort can admit when he’s wrong or made a mistake. [laughs] But he admits he made a mistake here in the first chapter of Deathly Hallows, and then this will come into play again in the last chapter of the book, “The Flaw in the Plan.” That’s just beautiful symmetry.
Eric and Laura: Yeah.
Eric: We’ve seen Voldemort boast like this before. It’s right in the graveyard when he has Harry tied up, and he’s like, “It was the most brilliant thing; I couldn’t touch the boy.” It’s always in the framing of “Now I know better. Yeah, I made mistakes, but now, watch, I can touch him now.” This, that, the other thing. So because Voldemort has now learned about the Elder Wand or whatever, and the connection between his and Harry’s wand, he thinks now he’s unbeatable. He’s like, “Oh, I was so silly. I didn’t look at love, or I didn’t look at wandlore before. Now that I know better, I’m going to win. I’m a warrior, and I’m going to win.”
Andrew: “I’ve made mistakes, but not anymore.”
Eric: Yeah, so I think that it’s nice to see him kind of admit that he has failed…
Andrew: [laughs] It’s nice.
Eric: … but at the same time, it’s always in view of how much better and more unbeatable he is now, so that is still something he can work on personally.
Laura: Yeah. Well, it’s ignoring basic principles of what caused him to lose in the first place. He’s constantly trying to circumvent really exploring the power of love, right? To see how it is that he can overcome it, and instead, because he believes it to not be worth all that much, there must be a way in which he can be smarter and better than something that, in this world, is ancient blood magic. The hubris is definitely still very heavy with this character.
Micah: What I love about it, though, is that it’s almost monologue-esque. He has this whole room that’s filled with Death Eaters, yet he’s sitting there having a conversation with himself, and that just adds to the sinister nature of Voldemort as a character, I feel like.
Eric: Yeah, he’s not interested in what any of them have to say unless it serves him. He’s having a conversation and everyone else is just there to watch.
Andrew: Witnessing it. It’s like a therapy session.
Eric: This reminds me of… or all the Oval Office meetings we’ve ever seen of this administration.
Laura: [laughs] Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.
Eric: They’re all there because they are obligated to be there, and the center of attention is going to do his thing.
Micah: Or out of fear.
Laura: Well, at least Voldemort is not falling asleep in the middle of it, but anyway.
Andrew: “I just learned ‘dumb’ is spelled with a B.”
[Laura laughs]
Eric: The Death Eaters would just have to be like, “So what did you do last week?” Or “How are the kids?” “Oh, Crabbe failed his History of Magic essay again.”
Micah: We could have a lot of fun with comparisons, but maybe that’s a bonus episode. [laughs]
Laura: Yeah, this is a family show. We keep it friendly over here.
[Ad break]
Laura: Moving on, I want to focus some on the Malfoys, because obviously this is all taking place in Malfoy Manor. The Malfoys are sort of unwilling prisoners in their own home at this point, and there is a portion of this meeting that seems to have been reserved for just humiliating the Malfoys, specifically because of Lucius’s failures. And something I wanted to call out is Voldemort clearly still holds Bellatrix in some level of esteem, but it’s not even to the point where he’s willing to set aside whatever bygones he has with her brother-in-law to preserve her feelings. He’s just over here casually throwing things out like, “Oh, yeah, your niece just married a werewolf. Draco, you gonna babysit the cubs?” It’s just really embarrassing. There’s also the whole part of Voldemort taking Lucius’s wand, leaving him literally defenseless. I know there’s an allegory that someone points out here in the doc about it being a bit like losing an arm, so I thought we could focus on this.
Micah: Well, I would go further than that.
[Laura laughs]
Micah: I mean, honestly, I think it’s a form of public castration. That’s what’s happening here. I mean, it’s removing Lucius’s manhood, essentially, with what happens with his wand, and it’s happening inside of his own home, in front of his family. I don’t know that we ever talked about this the last time we discussed this chapter, but that’s, I think, a fair analogy to make.
Andrew: I think so.
Eric and Laura: Yeah.
Andrew: And instinctively, Lucius tries to go for Voldemort’s wand, like they’re going to trade, because you just can’t imagine not having a wand. I think that moment speaks to… you have a wand as a wizard, period. And then you also keep in mind that experience we see Harry go through when he gets his wand with Ollivander. It’s a huge moment in a wizard’s life. So to have your wand stripped from you in this public setting, in your own home – like you said, Micah – really significant. I think this would also just really, moving forward, emasculate you. It’s demoralizing. It’s humiliating.
Eric: A wand is an extension of yourself in a metaphoric and very physical sense, and it’s your defense in the world. It’s very clear how far Lucius has fallen, and his whole family, it’s clear, are just the punching bags now. They just exist like they’re food that Voldemort can’t stop chewing. And I was thinking about this for Draco, too, because Draco is clearly nervous and concerned about the body of the professor that’s suspended above the table; who wouldn’t be? And why would you allow somebody so clearly traumatized who could act against you to still be present in these meetings? And with that, I’m like, well, Draco failed Voldemort too. Lucius failed Voldemort, but Draco failed him too, but since he never expected Draco to succeed, the fact that Draco didn’t die means he just gets to kind of pal around and hang around and become more of this food or fodder for Voldemort to make jokes about. So I don’t know. He doesn’t respect any of them, I mean, in general, but also now less than ever.
Micah: Certainly.
Laura: Yeah. Well, and Draco is terrified. I think it’s important to call out, too, his demeanor throughout this entire chapter is that of someone being terrorized at this table. Again, it’s another really great example of Draco being confronted with the path that he chose for himself. Although I know we’ve had a debate before about Draco having been raised in this environment, when he finally was confronted with the need to choose a path, was it really a choice, given the way that he was brought up and given the stakes that were at play? Because he was like, “He’s going to kill my family if I don’t do this.”
Micah: Right. And Draco is suffering for the faults of his father, really. That’s what’s happening here. And Lucius’s mistakes have been on such a grand scale, when you look back at it. He unintentionally destroyed a Horcrux; he muffed up the whole prophecy situation. Lucius is lucky he’s not dead, honestly. I’m surprised that Voldemort didn’t exact greater revenge on him, given how badly he screwed up.
Andrew: Well, what comes to mind here is the line “Some things are worse than death,” and Voldemort might see this as being worse than death.
Eric: Oh, yeah. Constant humiliation, constant punching bag… here’s a question, though, and I’m wondering about this because I agree 100% about this being sort of a way of cuckolding Lucius or castrating him in front of people and demeaning his status and everything. But a wizarding family, pure-blood, all that – very, very rich, very, very historied – wouldn’t they have some wands just in a drawer upstairs?
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: The way that you keep rings? I understand, no wand is ever the same, but wands are something in particular, it’s got to be pretty rare to bury them with the wizard, or at least 50/50.
Andrew: Are they meaningful wands? Voldemort’s wand would be meaningful.
Laura: I do wonder about that, because the only example we get in the books of anyone using a family member’s wand, I believe, was Ron, right, getting a hand-me-down wand?
Eric: It’s one of the Weasleys had, like, their uncle’s, yeah.
Laura: So I wonder…
Micah: Neville.
Laura: Oh, yeah, Neville too. Thank you for that. I guess I’m wondering for a family like the Malfoys, would they view hanging on to wands for an occasion like this as being something that only poor people do?
Andrew: Yeah, maybe.
Eric: I mean, but they’re like 24 karat. Again, going with the ring comparison…
Laura: 24 karat wands? [laughs]
Andrew: [singing] “24 karat wands in the air…”
Eric: There’s probably some good wands there. You don’t just throw out a wand. I don’t know. It’s obviously humiliating for Lucius, but I think he’d probably have a few wands upstairs.
Laura: Yeah. I mean, I think bare minimum for him, it’s the first time in his life that he’s felt… I mean, we’re using the castration imagery here, which I think totally fits, but I think there’s also a theme of impotence, right, in terms of his role as a wizard, somebody who should be able to do magic, someone who looks down his nose at people who can’t do magic, now is finding himself in a position where he is wandless, presumably. So it’s got to make him feel no better than a common Muggle.
Micah: And not having courage enough to stand up for yourself, for your family, to… I mean, we all know what the end result would be if he did that.
Eric: He’d be dead.
Andrew: Yeah. [laughs]
Micah: But at least show some level of dignity, and that’s what’s missing here. Even there’s this moment where Narcissa puts her hand on his, and I think maybe that was her way of telling him, “Don’t engage here; just do what he’s asking you to do.”
Eric: She’s protecting him. Yeah, because she doesn’t want to lose him either. And I love this moment, this quiet moment between Lucius and Narcissa, because they’re bearing this together. And the part of it as a reader that’s satisfying is this is everything they ever wanted. Why aren’t they happy? They wanted and fought for, even before Voldemort was back, the return of Voldemort. They probably… I’m going to be honest; Lucius with his wealth was probably like the equivalent of a lobbyist, right? Swaying politics into the kind of situation that would favor a return of the Dark Lord – covertly, of course – but Fudge probably enacted policies that are now working to completely undermine the Ministry because of Lucius. And so why isn’t he thrilled that Voldemort is back? Oh, because when you get everything you ever wanted, and you have ill will in your heart and malice, turns out it’s a shit show. You created the swamp.
Andrew: Careful what you wish for.
Eric: Yep.
Laura: Yeah. Well, and I mean, you see this echoed throughout history as well. Anytime there’s any kind of autocracy or dictatorship, there are always people who were pro that thing until they realized they weren’t special, and that the goalposts would shift and they would become targets as well. You always see people like this.
Eric: Oh, yeah. “Didn’t realize the cougars would eat my face.”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Laura: Yeah, exactly. Well, I know I mentioned a little earlier that blood status gets brought up here, and I thought it’d be interesting to speak a little bit more about this. Once the guffawing has ended over Voldemort’s comment about “Hey, Draco, you gonna babysit those werewolf cubs?”, Voldemort actually pivots to, I guess, in a very Voldemort-esque way, trying to be reasonable and understanding, and he says, “Many of our oldest family trees become a little diseased over time. You must prune yours, must you not, to keep it healthy?”
Andrew: Eugh.
Eric: Gross.
Laura: “Cut away those parts that threaten the health of the rest.” And I just wanted to call out a very sad foreshadowing alert here because he is speaking about Tonks and Lupin, and we know where that goes.
Eric: Also, take those words out of your mouth! My Head of House, Professor Sprout, knows all about horticulture, and you know nothing about horticulture. So stop talking about pruning.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: That’s her expertise.
Andrew: You know nothing! Good day, sir!
Eric: Thank you! Good day!
Laura: I also just want to call out, I love Voldemort conveniently glossing over the fact that he is most likely the only non pure-blood in this room.
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: And he’s telling them, “You must prune your family trees.”
Andrew: Oh, yeah, the hypocrisy of this man.
Eric: The filthy hypocrite.
Laura: Let’s talk about Charity Burbage. So honestly, this is one of the things I felt like the film did pretty well. I thought this was sickening in the way that I had imagined it from reading the book.
Andrew: And just, I want to say, the Harry Potter Studio Tour – I assume it’s still there – they had this whole scene out for you to walk by, and it is disturbing.
Laura: Wait, they have her hanging there?
Andrew: Yes!
Laura: Ouhh.
Andrew: Yes. It ain’t cute.
Micah: I was there January of 2024 and it was still there, so I’m assuming they haven’t taken her down.
Andrew: Okay.
Laura: Poor Charity.
Andrew: Yeah. For Halloween season, they should let you hang suspended up over the table for a photo op. [laughs]
Micah: Oh, geez.
Andrew: But yeah, that was unsettling to see in real life.
Laura: Yeah, for sure. And I mean, the implication we get at the end of the chapter after Charity has been AK’ed, after pointing out she is not only the Muggle Studies professor at Hogwarts, but she just wrote an impassioned defense column of Muggle-borns in the Daily Prophet just the week prior.
Eric: This is what we do: You silence political dissidents, and you… it would be bad enough… nobody here at the table would be sad if she died because of her position as a Muggle Studies teacher, but it was her action of publishing this impassioned defense of Muggle-born students that put her on their radar and put her on the fast track to be brought here and tortured and killed. So what I appreciate about how horrifying this is is that it’s very much how these things work in growing fascists and dictatorships and stuff, is you want to silence your enemies and you want to create a example, and that is exactly what Voldemort is doing here, reinforcing all of the core beliefs, no matter how hypo… hypo…
Micah: Hypocritical?
Eric: Hypocritical they are. Thank you. That was an odd stumble. So yeah, that’s par for the course.
Micah: And what’s also just appalling about this is she has no way to defend herself, presumably.
Andrew: Hell no.
Micah: If she’s the Muggle Studies professor, you’re going for… if you were, let’s say, attacking Hogwarts, that’s the weakest link, right? In terms of somebody who just… I’m assuming she’s… I don’t know. Is she Muggle-born? Is she actually a witch, I guess is my question.
Eric: Well, yeah, she’s not a Muggle.
Andrew: She is a witch.
Micah: Oh, she is a witch. Okay.
Eric: She’s not a Muggle Muggle Studies professor.
Micah: Muggle Muggle, yeah.
Andrew: I’m going to say something… go ahead, Micah.
Micah: No, go ahead, because I was going to ask a question.
Andrew: Oh, well, I’m going to ask a question too: Why Charity Burbage? How about a professor we readers actually know? I’m sorry, that’s really mean, but it’s kind of an inconsequential character. [laughs]
Eric: Well, no, no… that is an interesting point, and I do think it’s slightly weaker for the fact that she was never once mentioned before, right?
Andrew: Right!
Eric: So it’s not somebody… look, Hermione, we know, has taken Muggle Studies. It’s not something that in Book 2, Hermione is like, “I just got my latest paper from Professor Burbage” as a throwaway character…
Andrew: We don’t care about her.
Eric: … where even that would’ve grounded the character ever so slightly more. So yeah, it’s kind of an afterthought weak point of that.
Andrew: I get the symbolism of killing the Muggle Studies teacher, but other than that, from a reader perspective, I’m not loving this choice.
Laura: Yeah, it would have been helpful if she had been introduced from Harry’s POV, or even if we had gotten a POV shift earlier in the series. We get these… I was reminded when listening to the full-cast audiobook of Philosopher’s Stone that we actually get a couple of POV shifts when Harry is playing Quidditch; we get a POV shift to Ron and Hermione in the stands, for example.
Eric: Oh, yeah.
Laura: Theoretically, we could have had something like that to give us a little bit of a taste of what Charity’s significance was to the series. But again, I think – I know I’ve voiced this on the show before – but usually any kind of extremist autocratic regime tends to target places of education first, because they want to infiltrate and propagandize what students are being exposed to, so this was kind of killing two birds with one stone because Voldemort gets to have this horrific display at his little Death Eater meeting, but he also gets to remove an entire subject from Hogwarts for the coming year and influence what their curriculum is going to look like.
Eric: Oooh.
Andrew: Right.
Eric: Because the first thing to go is education, right?
Andrew: We’re getting a couple good comments in the Discord, people listening live on Patreon right now. Sam said, “It’s probably foreshadowing with the whole Muggle-born registry later too,” and Rachelpuff adds, “It sets up to replace the role later, I guess, with one of the Carrows.” Where you were going, Laura, so yeah. Laura, look at that photo in the Discord of the scene at the Studio Tour.
Laura: That’s so creepy.
Andrew: Yeah, her hair hanging down? [shudders]
Eric: Yeah. Well, if there was any hope that she has of survival, it’s Severus Snape, her colleague. Clearly, they hung out in the staffroom together or something all the time. It’s a shame because we know that even if Snape were a good guy, he couldn’t help right here. Even if you don’t believe murder is okay – or it didn’t matter what – if Snape helps her, he’s a dead man, and the cause is too great. Even as somebody on the good side, you have to see Charity Burbage as necessary collateral damage because of what Snape has yet to do.
Micah: And the same words are uttered from her as Dumbledore.
Andrew: That’s disturbing, yeah.
Micah: “Severus, please.” Oh for two.
Laura: That’s got to be rough.
Andrew: Third time’s the charm.
Laura: [laughs] I wanted to wrap this discussion today by just asking us to pay close attention to Narcissa in this scene and how she’s navigating it, especially thinking ahead to the end of the book when we think about how she navigates the whole scene in the forest. I know it was called out a bit earlier that she was kind of running the show for her husband and her son in terms of, I think, surreptitiously controlling their reactions, because anytime Draco is feeling panicked – which is this entire scene – he’s not looking to his father for inspiration; he keeps looking at his mother, and she models this display of staring directly at the wall in front of her, not showing any emotion, not making any sudden movements, not saying anything, or having any kind of reaction. So I think it’s really interesting to see how, at this point in time, Narcissa, I would argue, has become the head of the Malfoy household, whereas I think prior to this, that would have been a mantle that Lucius would have imagined for himself.
Eric: That’s a great point, especially because she hasn’t fallen as far as Lucius has in the Dark Lord’s favor. Her sisterhood with Bellatrix also elevates her a little bit. She’s really able to come into her… we’re able to see at the start of this that she comes into her own, and it mirrors perfectly that by the end of the book, she makes the choice that is the most catastrophic for Voldemort. It’s this mother’s love that wins the day.
Laura: Well, that wraps up Chapter 1 of Deathly Hallows for us.
Lynx Line
Laura: Now we’re going to go ahead and get into this week’s Lynx Line. Lynx Line was answered by supporters over at Patreon.com/MuggleCast, and we’re going to get into our answers first as well. Question this week was: Lucius has peacocks strutting around his property. What creature would you want to live on yours?
Andrew: Orca whales. Don’t ask how. I just want them there.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: Eat the rich.
Andrew: In a comfortable environment for them, of course, so big, big, open ocean.
Laura: To protect you against the millionaires?
Andrew: The millionaires and the billionaires, and now the trillionaire.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: Yeah. Oh, God. I picture them in a large moat. That’s kind of cool. I went with what’s similar to a peacock to me as far as majesty, and I always want to see them more: Kangaroos would be my answer. But unlike Lucius’s peacocks, not albino kangaroos, because I think that would just look kind of off-putting, especially at night.
Micah: Goats.
Laura: I guess that should have been given.
Eric: Surprise. Big, big surprise.
Laura: I said capybaras.
Andrew and Eric: Aww.
Laura: I just think that would be awesome, to have a bunch of capybaras running around my yard.
Andrew: Our Australian listeners will appreciate both Laura and Eric’s answers. Turning to Patreon answers, Megan said, “Unicorns! That would be so majestic!” That’s a good answer for the wizarding world.
Eric: Cassandra says, “A hippogriff so that anyone entering has to be very polite, or else!”
Andrew: That’s a smart one.
Eric: I love this. Yeah, you can put this right next to the mat that says, “Take off your shoes, please.”
Micah: Zachary said,
“Realistic answer: I’d love to fence in my front yard high enough to let my boys (dogs) have full run of the property. As far as magical creatures, I’d love to have a phoenix or two and a hippogriff to ward off any unwanted visitors.”
Eric: I just thought about how people use their dogs as character witnesses, essentially, or character judgments, and a hippogriff would be the ultimate of that. That’s crazy.
Laura: Yeah. Glo says,
“I’ve always wanted goats so that I wouldn’t have to mow my lawn anymore. I would train them to keep the grass chewed down to the exact right height and pull out the weeds completely.”
Micah: Nice.
Andrew: Betty said, “NIFFLERS for sure! They can grab everyone’s goods for me, haha.” Okay, Betty is a bit of a klepto.
Eric: Kayla says, “Fun fact: In the state I live in, there’s a known part of the city that peacocks roam. My husband has been chased by one.”
Micah: Carly says, “I’ll stick with Lucius’s theme of nonmagical creatures and say albino raccoons.”
Laura: Ooh, that’s cool. Michael says,
“Twin Blast-Ended Skrewts. Not only are they tamed, but they can also eat any intruders. No need for guard dogs in the wizarding world!”
Andrew: Mev has a pretty aggressive one too.
“A herd of elephants. I love them so much. They are so cool. They are clever, have excellent memory, live in matriarchal herds; what else do you need? I also would love to have any animal that needs a home.”
That’s thoughtful of you, Mev.
Eric: Nicole says,
“As a proud Saint Peter’s alumni, I would love some peacocks! Although I heard they are messy birds.”
Micah: Rachelpuff says,
“I would have/take care of a wild Kneazle colony as they are capable of guarding homes and can detect untrustworthy individuals, also because I love cats.”
Eric: Aww.
Laura: And finally, Rachel says, “I’d love some sea lions.”
Andrew: Thank you, everybody. Okay, so I’m not the only one suggesting a water creature.
Laura: No.
Andrew: That makes me feel better. [laughs] Thanks, everybody who submitted answers at Patreon.com/MuggleCast as part of the Lynx Line benefit. Listeners, if you have feedback about today’s episode, you can contact us by emailing or sending a voice memo that you record on your phone to MuggleCast@gmail.com. You can also reach out via Spotify or YouTube or the social DMs, whatever is convenient for you.
Quizzitch
Andrew: Before we say goodbye, it’s time to reveal the answer to this week’s Quizzitch question.
[Quizzitch music plays]
Eric: All right, we were just introduced to the Muggle Studies professor, Charity Burbage. There are at least two other characters in the wizarding universe with the initials CB. Name them. Guys, you don’t need to look that far; you don’t even need to look past other Hogwarts professors. Cuthbert Binns is another CB! Professor Binns. And the other answer I was expecting to receive was Credence Barebone. Congrats to Mev who submitted both of those answers. And here are some others, by the way: Caractacus Burke, which Becky has suggested, and so has Carly. And also Cassiopeia Black, which is right off that tapestry. There is also a Chastity Barebone from the Fantastic Beasts movies, if we want to go really deep.
Andrew: Next week on MuggleCast, Chapter 2 of Deathly Hallows, “In Memorium.” Visit MuggleCast.com for links to our social media, our Patreon, our transcripts, our favorite episodes, all kinds of information about the show. So that does it for this week’s episode. Thanks, everybody, for listening. I’m Andrew.
Eric: I’m Eric.
Micah: I’m Micah.
Laura: And I’m Laura.
Andrew: Bye, everyone!
Laura: Bye.