Transcript for MuggleCast Episode #767, Snitches Get Stitches (DH Chapter 7, The Will of Albus Dumbledore)
Cold Open
Eric: Does anybody ever refer to it as the close of life, though?
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: No, but I mean…
Andrew: My life is closing.
Laura: [laughs] Somebody just starts playing “Closing Time.”
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: [singing] “Closing time…”
Show Intro
[Show music plays]
Andrew Sims: Welcome to MuggleCast, your weekly ride into the world of Harry Potter. I’m Andrew.
Eric Scull: I’m Eric.
Micah Tannenbaum: I’m Micah.
Laura Tee: I’m Laura.
Andrew: And we’re your Harry Potter friends, gathering to talk about the books and the movies and the upcoming TV show, so follow us in your favorite podcast app, and you’ll get new episodes every Wednesday. This week, because it’s always good to leave your friends things that they can totally use in the fight against evil, we’re discussing Chapter 7 of Deathly Hallows, “The Will of Albus Dumbledore.” And helping us with today’s discussion is Slug Club member Sara. Welcome, Sara!
Sara: Hi, I’m glad to be here.
Andrew: It’s a pleasure to have you. Can we get your fandom ID, please?
Sara: Yeah, so my favorite book is Half-Blood Prince. My favorite movie is Goblet of Fire, because I’m always here for anything that involves David Tennant. My Hogwarts House is Ravenclaw. My Ilvermorny House is Thunderbird, if we’re still doing that one. My Patronus is a black mare, which I think is appropriate because I think horses are actually very intimidating.
Andrew: Ohh, that is a good one, yeah. I do love that you gave us your Ilvermorny House, even though I don’t have it listed. I’m always so split about including it because half of fans still know it, and then the other half don’t, and does it even matter anymore? We’ve totally…
Sara: I know it by name, but I don’t remember anything about the different Houses. [laughs]
Andrew: Okay, okay. But no, that’s good you still have yours. And then our wildcard question this week is what is your favorite trinket in Dumbledore’s office or possession?
Sara: All right, so I don’t think it ever has an official name, but it’s always described every time you walk in. There’s a silver spindly thing that’s blowing puffs of clouds. It’s the thing that Dumbledore talks to after Arthur Weasley gets attacked by the snake in Order of the Phoenix, where he’s like, “Oh, in essence divided,” and it just sends puffs of smoke up in fun shapes, and we know nothing else about it, and I think that’s very whimsical.
Andrew: All right, well, before we continue, it’s time for this week’s Quizzitch question.
[Quizzitch music plays]
Eric: I know, I know. I’m on the Discord; people are chomping at the bit to already start participating in this one. The question is: What is the original name for the Deluminator that Ron inherits from Dumbledore? For those playing at home, this is great. The answer is going to be revealed at the end of the episode.
Andrew: Listeners such as Sushrita, Randa, Jennifer, and Nathan make this show possible. They recently became new patrons. If you enjoy MuggleCast as much as the Ministry loves deciding what is and isn’t Dumbledore’s to give away, we would love your support in a bunch of different ways. First and best, head over to Patreon.com/MuggleCast and become a member of our community today. To thank you, you’ll receive new bonus episodes of the show every month, as well as ad-free episodes, access to our recording studio – we’re having a lot of fun interacting with the patrons today – an on-air shout-out, and lots more. Our Patreon has existed for a decade now, and it’s the reason we can be a weekly podcast. And we just started shouting out some MuggleCast legends; these are people who have been with us for ten full years now. Eric, take it away.
Eric: [singing] Catherine, Kiran, Linda, John, Monica, Ryan, Carrie, Jemima, Kayahtik, Kayde, Kimberly, Ali, Daphna, Andrea, Gabriela, Anne, Amy, WaterNai, Yue, Jonathan, Carla, Heather, Shannon, Michael, Kathleen, Tyler, Jennifer, Martine, Brittney, Liz, Poncho, Roger, Jordan, Channell, Ruby.
Andrew: Wow, that also kind of rhymed. That was perfect. Thank you.
Laura: Yeah, that was well done.
Andrew: We’d also appreciate if you left us a review in your favorite podcast app or told a fellow Muggle about our show. And finally, you can visit MuggleCastMerch.com to buy official show gear.
Chapter by Chapter: Seven-Word Summary
Andrew: Now it’s time for Chapter by Chapter. We’re discussing Chapter 7 of Deathly Hallows, “The Will of Albus Dumbledore,” and it’s time for our Seven-Word Summary. Sara, are you ready for the scariest game in podcasting?
Sara: I’m very prepared.
Andrew: Okay, okay, okay. Here we go.
[Seven-Word Summary music plays]
Sara: Visitors…
Andrew: … arrive…
Micah: … to…
Eric: … attend…
Laura: … nuptials…
Sara: … and…
Andrew: … reveals. [laughs] Phew, just squeaked that in.
Laura: I was sitting here… I was like, [whispers] “Birthday. Birthday.”
Andrew: Oh, oh.
Laura: No, it’s fine.
Sara: Laura and I are on the same page.
Andrew: I got tripped up because I didn’t know how to spell “nuptials” in our doc.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Laura: Sorry.
Eric: Yeah, that’s a weird one.
Andrew: Luckily, Google corrected it.
Chapter by Chapter: Main Discussion
Eric: Well, I love that we mentioned birthdays, because it is in fact Harry’s birthday. He is now of age. I don’t know what you guys would do when you found that you could totally use magic freely for the first time. Is it anything more interesting than summoning your glasses into your eye from a few feet away? Because if so, then we have Harry beat.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: But anyway, it’s always nice when we have these chapters where Harry’s friends get him things, and it’s nice to see that even though we have a lot of dark stuff going on in Book 7, there’s still time for these chapters where we get things, such as Ron’s gift to Harry, which is the first thing that I have many questions about from this chapter. It’s a book. I mean, look at Ron giving Harry books for presents, but it’s a book on 12 Fail-Safe Ways to Charm Witches.
Andrew: 12!
Eric: Oh, 12.
Laura: Very important.
Eric: Very important. Seeing as how Harry is – or was until very recently – dating Ginny, Ron’s only sister, who Ron is protective over, what can Ron possibly mean by giving Harry this book?
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Is this one of the things where Ron just had a book lying around and was like, “His birthday’s tomorrow; got to give him this”? This doesn’t fit Ron, to give, at all.
Micah: He’s of age, so maybe this is a of age present for Harry. I think he’s comfortable giving this to Harry because he’s not dating Ginny anymore.
Eric: Oh.
Micah: Whereas if he was still dating Ginny, I’m not entirely sure this would be the gift that Harry would receive on his 17th birthday.
Andrew: It does feel like a bro to bro type of gift. Like, “Hey, bestie, you’re 17 now. You’re of age now. Here’s a…” It’s almost like a gag gift, honestly. Harry is not actually going to pull tips from this, right?
Eric: He might.
Andrew: He’s a natural charmer, I think, at this point. He might, but I think he’s got his own ways to charm people. He’s got a pretty good resume at this point.
Eric: Yeah, “I’m Harry Potter.” That’s literally all he ever needs to say.
Andrew: One word: “bolt.”
Laura: Sara, what do you think?
Sara: I think Ron gave it in earnest because Ron is the kind of guy who really does need the book in order to speak to women.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Aw.
Sara: Yeah, but I also think he felt comfortable giving it to Harry now because he’s trying to wingman his bro into dating literally anyone other than Ginny.
Eric: Ohh.
Laura: That part.
Sara: He’s like, “Oh, you broke up with my sister. I’m going to help you get with anybody else who’s not related to me.”
Eric: Because Harry didn’t get that memo. Harry and Ginny are still in a pretty nonverbal level of still dating or doing things or being intimate, and…
Sara: They’re on the back burner.
Eric: At least I appreciate that the book helped Ron. Right? Some of the best gifts you could possibly give to people are things that you yourself found useful, and you want to spread that joy, so I completely understand and agree with the fact that Ron needed the book; it helped him out. It’s a good gift to give. But because of this awkwardness with Harry and Ginny, even though Harry broke up with her, I think they both, Harry and Ginny, understand that they’re still together. So it’s just what happens when Ron senses that Harry and Ginny are off snogging somewhere, he bursts in and just completely ruins the day, and I’m thinking, “Why would you…?” There’s some mixed messages we’re receiving here. Ron, on the one hand, is the perfect wingman; he wants to get Harry to date people. But he’s not okay with Harry dating his sister.
Laura: I come back to Sara’s take on this, which is that he’s totally fine with Harry dating anyone except Ginny. But I think Ron is also… he’s a little bit emotionally stunted – we’ve talked about this in the past – and so he’s totally the kind of character who would get a book like this. It’s like, “12 tips to help you talk to women.”
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: And read half of it, because you know he didn’t read the whole thing, because Ron doesn’t…
Eric: He didn’t read the whole thing.
Laura: Yeah, he doesn’t. So he’s like, “Yo, Harry, let me put you on some game. I’m going to give you this book, and it says stuff like, ‘If the girl you like is sad, you should go put your arm around her.’ Game changer.”
[Andrew and Micah laugh]
Andrew: I hope Ron has read this whole book, though. I mean, how long could the book be? It can’t get into detail for every way.
Eric: Laura, I need you to write every book. I need you to write this book, and then I need you to narrate it. Do the audiobook for this.
Laura: [laughs] Right, I’ll do it in my podcaster dude-bro voice.
Eric: [in a dude-bro voice] “Yeah, bro.”
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: This would pair nicely with the fanfiction that Eric is writing about Ginny, right? [coughs]
Laura: True.
Eric: Yeah, well…
Andrew: What, Micah?
Micah: Doesn’t Harry say something to Mrs. Weasley a little bit later on in this chapter, and Ron compliments him on it? But I’m wondering, was that even something Harry got from that book, or was it just something that naturally came to Harry in the moment?
Eric: Oh.
Sara: Harry noticed that Ron had complimented Hermione because – get this, crazy – women like being complimented.
Andrew: [laughs] Whoa.
Eric: I’ve been seen, and something nice that you did… yeah, yeah.
Sara: And he’s like, “I bet that’s one of the tips.” And then he’s like, “I bet that’s one of them,” and then he implements it later.
Eric: Oh my God. The thing is, I understand if Ron has an apprehension about Harry dating Ginny, and he says as much to Harry. He’s still defensive of his little sister. But he’s got to understand that consent is two ways, and Ginny is very much still interested in Harry. What I can’t abide by is him bursting in, because he knows how hard it is to get time to yourself at the Burrow – how everyone is stretched thin, everyone’s doing wedding prep, everybody’s doing all this stuff – and the idea that Harry and Ginny might have had a moment, even if they’re not snogging, just to talk about their recent loss? They’re still in a very private situation no matter what they’re doing in that room. Ron doesn’t care. He’s going to barge in.
Laura: He’s kind of acting like his mom.
Andrew and Micah: Oooh.
Eric: You know what? That is an interesting point. Yep.
Micah: It’s not cool at all. And he is being the overprotective brother, and I do think it’s coming from a place of caring, I really do, because we see it a little bit later on in the chapter. But maybe – kind of to your point, Eric – he should be concerned with his own relationships and situations, and not trying to butt in on what’s going on between Harry and Ginny.
Eric: Well, here’s the interesting thing – again, comparing it like Laura did to Molly – yes, Ron cares, it’s coming from a place of caring, but nobody’s asking him to care about this. Nobody’s asking him to manage this. And so just like Molly, where she’s taking it upon herself to manage their whole not being able to come up with a plan, and she’s finding things for them to do, Ron is inserting himself into the situation, which is not welcome.
Andrew: Did y’all have experiences like this where your siblings would maybe burst into your bedroom or just invade your privacy in some way?
Eric: Lack of privacy?
Andrew: Yeah. I mean, I had two siblings growing up, I shared walls with both of them, and there were moments, but I think we respected each other’s privacy pretty well. We would never burst in. And of course, we had locks on our doors. Do the Weasleys have locks on their doors, I wonder? Of course, you could undo it easily. [laughs]
Laura: Doesn’t sound like it.
Eric: If I were Molly and Arthur, especially with Fred and George, I would prevent there from being locks on the doors.
Andrew: Totally.
Eric: You need to be able to get in there.
Sara: I mean, I don’t know about you guys, but if I were 16 and I tried to bring a boy into my bedroom and close the door, my parents would have blown a gasket.
Laura: Yeah, that would have not been permitted.
Eric: Okay, Sara, but what if it were the Chosen One?
Sara: Well, there you go.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: Everybody in this family ships Harry/Ginny, so why is Ron having a problem with this? It’s not a real question.
Andrew: I got away with it because my parents didn’t know I was gay, so guys would be over and they’d ignore it.
[Andrew and Micah laugh]
Eric: You were just playing video games, right? Just playing video games.
Andrew: Yeah, it was just friends sharing a bedroom. What could…?
Eric: Just playing with dolls. It’s fine.
Andrew: Playing with…
[Everyone laughs]
Micah: Barney.
Eric: Oh, yeah. So the thing that comes to light is that Ron did know a little bit what he’s doing, because in the garden after it all happens, Harry does question Ron on it. And ultimately, Ron is protective of Ginny; he tells Harry how much it hurt her. But I’m curious about whether this makes Ron’s gift a bad gift. Because again, even though it was really, really useful to Ron, Ron is fully aware of the struggle ahead. Ron knows that they’re going to be hunting Horcruxes; they don’t have time to hunt dames. So when is Harry going to use these tips?
Andrew: To the point I brought up earlier, this just feels like a gag bro gift. It’s nothing really serious. And that, I think, is in Ron’s character, to not – sorry – put too much thought into a gift for his bro.
Sara: Yeah, I think Harry and Ron are living in two different realities right now, where Harry can only see the Horcruxes and the hunt that they’re about to go on, and Ron still hasn’t fully grasped what they’re about to undertake.
Andrew: Ooh, yeah.
Sara: So in his mind, he’s like, “Yeah, we’re going to knock out some Horcruxes, and then we’re going to finish out our hot girl summer and pick up some chicks.”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Sara: I don’t think he has really… I know he has the ghoul figured out so he can drop out of Hogwarts, and he has his contingency plans, but I don’t think he’s really sat with it and considered the length of the task and the difficulty and the danger. He’s just not there yet.
Eric: Yeah, which some of us don’t ever get there, right? Of even looking at a task that’s right in front of us, be like, “Oh, I’m really sitting with this now.” I think that wakeup call is what Ron goes through during the first few months of camp.
Micah: Yeah, it makes me think to that moment in the movie when they’re in the tent where Harry says to him, “What part of this isn’t living up to your expectations?”
Eric and Laura: Yeah.
Eric: “All the dames, man. All the girls I thought we were going to hang out with.”
Micah: “Did you think you’d be back with your mummy by Christmas,” I think is one of the other lines.
Sara: This is laying the groundwork for that fight later.
Laura: Yeah, I think so.
Andrew: It is hard to comprehend. I don’t know about you guys, but before you go on a trip that you’re really looking forward to – of course, they’re not necessarily really looking forward to this – but I know when I’m really looking forward to a trip, it is almost hard to believe that this is an experience you’re going to be having, so I think that might be going on here too.
Eric: So the big moment in this chapter, pivoting kind of sweetly to the guests that are arriving. Of course, Fleur’s parents are in; Gabrielle is in. But the Minister for Magic – not for the first time a Minister just barges onto the Burrow – but Rufus Scrimgeour arrives and has stuff to do. And quite interestingly, as soon as it is known that the Minister is coming – thanks, Kingsley – Lupin and Tonks take their leave. They say, “Oh, we shouldn’t be here.” Wonder what that’s about. Or thanks, Arthur; not thanks, Kingsley. So Lupin and Tonks kind of peace out. And this is not the first time, as I mentioned, that the Minister for Magic stops by, so is it a security risk that Harry is so findable?
Laura: I think so.
Eric: When Fudge wanted a word, just go to the Burrow. He’s with the Weasleys; everybody knows that this is Harry’s go-to place. So I mean, I guess the protections around the Burrow would mean that anyone who really wanted to do Harry direct harm couldn’t arrive at the Burrow, but these Ministers have to stop dropping by like this. Harry does not want to talk to you.
Laura: Well, I think it’s also not helpful because we know the Ministry has been infiltrated, so if the Ministry is also providing protections to the Burrow on top of what the Order is doing, and the Minister knows where Harry Potter is, and the Ministry is infiltrated… it’s just like, they might as well have a sign that’s just like, “Harry Potter, right here,” flashing lights. And we see how this goes during the wedding that’s coming.
Sara: Scrimgeour was allowed to get in, or he was able to get in because Arthur was with him, and Arthur owns the Burrow. Do we think that’s the secret? If you’re with somebody who’s allowing you in, then it’s okay?
Eric: Maybe, especially if it works…
Sara: It’s not like he dropped up unaccompanied.
Eric: No, but again, I don’t think he’s entirely choosing to show up here either. I think Arthur is under duress by the fact that his boss’s boss’s boss wants a word. The best thing I can say is at least it helps because to deliver the items that are legally the trio’s is a really altruistic or non-malicious purpose. So again, maybe that’s why it works.
Micah: I’m curious, though, what he is looking to achieve. Obviously, we know he’s there to give the contents of the will, but just with the state of the Ministry overall, I feel like he would be better served to not be so confrontational and look to team up with the members of the Order, and I say that because a little bit later on in this chapter, he almost comes to blows with Harry. He literally sticks his wand and burns Harry’s shirt. And I was thinking back; we were talking a little bit about Fudge earlier. For as much as we disliked Fudge as Minister for Magic, it never got this heated with Harry. It never got to the point where they were really going to fight it out. But I guess maybe the stakes weren’t as high back then.
Eric: I also think you have in Fudge somebody who’s… well, incompetent was often used to describe him, but not confident in his own magical ability I think would be right. He wouldn’t point his wand at Harry Potter. Harry Potter defeated the Dark Lord; you’re not about to go to blows. But Scrimgeour, who regularly has a career as an Auror, is willing to get his hands dirty. So I think he is more of a fist fighter than Cornelius ever would have been.
Andrew: Yeah, I mean, especially with the way that Harry feels about the Ministry, Scrimgeour should be approaching this extremely cautiously, and it just doesn’t seem like he does. So as usual, the Ministry is playing their relationship with Harry all wrong.
Eric: Yeah, very much so. But his first attempt, or his first strategy is to attempt to separate Harry, Ron, and Hermione. This ain’t gonna work.
Andrew: And this is exactly my point. What on earth is he thinking? How is this going to win over Harry? [laughs]
Micah: Well, he’s thinking like a cop.
Eric: An interrogation, right?
Micah: Yeah. As you said, Eric, he’s the former Head of the Auror Office, so interrogation tactics make sense, and he probably felt that he could pressure at least one of them into giving up important information. And Ron kind of starts to go down that path, and Hermione has to reel him in. So that’s a perfect example of when you’re sitting, you’re having a conversation with somebody – especially the Minister for Magic – you don’t know what’s going to trickle out. And I don’t know, with the way the Ministry has been lately, I wouldn’t put it past Scrimgeour to use some less than savory tactics if he was able to get them separated. Veritaserum, reading some minds, Imperius… I don’t know. There’s probably a list of different things.
Eric: Maybe.
Micah: No, I mean, why…? Would you honestly put it past him, if he really wants the information and they’re all separate? It’s strength in numbers here.
Eric: I think he has an unknown but definitely existing and persistent ethical code. There are lines he won’t cross. So at the very end, doesn’t he die refusing to give up Harry or refusing to give up a secret? The Death Eaters kill him and he protects Harry at the very end? But not until the very end does Scrimgeour realize just how much he’s lost, just how infiltrated the Ministry is. And so he’s here obstructing things and trying to interrogate and separate Harry, Ron, and Hermione, and at one point, Hermione is giving him all this stuff about legal process. He’s like, “What are you, a lawyer?” He’s trying to… “You’re obstructing me. I’m annoyed at you for following the letter of the law as I have to.” But he’s not going to break the law the way Umbridge would break the law. He’s ultimately seen these tactics like Veritaserum be used by the exact Dark wizards, or people, unsavory characters, that he’s probably made a career out of catching, and so he himself is not about to resort to that. But he’s going to… he might rough Harry up a little bit if it means he’s going to shake some sense into him. But I don’t think he’s going to break the law.
Andrew: Yeah, especially in the Burrow? In the Weasleys’ own home? That seems really sick.
Eric: Oh, that’s funny.
Andrew: No, I mean, he’s not even on his home turf. You know what I mean?
Eric: Pick up Harry; throw him through the dining room table.
[Andrew and Micah laugh]
Andrew: Yeah, it’s just a fool’s errand to try and separate these three to begin with.
Micah: I just think there are means that he could have utilized even verbally. Thinking about somebody like Ron, “Well, you know, your father’s job at the Ministry is on thin ice.”
Eric: Oooh, yep.
Andrew: Wow. Micah, you’re sick.
Eric: Pressure campaign. Hey, this is something I think he would resort to, absolutely. Political pressure, he understands.
Andrew and Laura: Yeah.
Laura: It is funny because I feel like I had forgotten how Scrimgeour comes across in this chapter based on what we see in the movie, just because this is the book that I’ve reread the least. He’s actually super manipulative and kind of a jerk here, whereas in the movie he’s, I think, coded as trying to be more helpful than anything. So it’s just interesting, and I do hope that we get to see more of this side of Scrimgeour in the TV show.
Andrew: Well, speaking of pressuring the trio, I do have a bit of a foreshadow alert here.
[Foreshadowing sound effect plays]
Andrew: So when Scrimgeour and Hermione are tussling over the laws around reviewing Dumbledore’s possessions before handing them off, the Minister asks Hermione if she wants to follow a career in Magical Law, and she says, “No, I’m not. I’m hoping to do some good in the world!” Which also, I’m like, “Aww.” But she ends up becoming Minister for Magic, so I thought that was a bit of a foreshadow here.
Eric: That was a good one. Keep ’em coming.
Micah: What do you make of Scrimgeour, Sara?
Sara: He says at the end of their conversation, “We’re supposed to be on the same side,” and if he believes that, I don’t know why he didn’t just come in and ask them nicely. I feel like that may have been more productive than coming in so aggressive in the way that he did.
Eric: I wonder if he’s just an old dog whose tricks… that’s how he used to get… he’s used to extracting information from people the hard way, he’s always been bad cop his whole life, that he can’t come in and just switch gears even as Minister and be good cop.
Sara: Well, then he should have brought backup to be good cop with him, because otherwise you just kind of look rude.
Eric: Yeah, he needs an assistant. He needs a happy little cheery assistant to come in and…
Andrew: Yeah, just… and having the Minister there is super intimidating already, gosh. No matter who it is, that’s an intimidating moment. Imagine the president coming to your house. Everybody try to resist making a joke here about the current president. [laughs]
Eric: No thank you, please. So the will reading does happen, the trio are not separated for it, and you know who is not left off the list? Ron Weasley!
Andrew: Aw.
Eric: Ron Weasley can now put out lights with ease.
Andrew: Ayy.
Eric: It’s a totally unique item, this Deluminator, and I think that’s pretty neat, actually. It’s a cool-ass thing. And watching Hermione have to justify it in front of Scrimgeour of like, “Well, Dumbledore always thought you were cool” or whatever. “He knows I appreciate this stuff.” It’s just funny watching them, because there’s sort of an interrogation happening where once it’s revealed what they get from Dumbledore, they’re being asked to explain it to Scrimgeour, which is not at all something they should have to do.
Sara: Can you imagine if your grandparents died and their estate lawyer is giving you all of the items and then demanding an explanation behind every single one?
Micah: It is kind of intimidating, though, too – and this goes to the point about the Minister showing up – that he is the one who is the executor of Dumbledore’s will. In what world would Dumbledore have ever have chosen the Minister for Magic to be the one handing these items over to Harry, Ron, and Hermione?
Eric: Dumbledore must have known, though, right? And here’s the other question about whether the Burrow is a security risk, or knowing where Harry is is a security risk. The fact that Dumbledore left these items in his will – and Hermione even says this – he knew they were subject to high scrutiny, but the mission was too important. The fact that Dumbledore was counting on these items to be delivered to the trio shows, to some extent, that Dumbledore planned on them being findable at least for a little while. And so I’m a bit confused on the security aspect of then having these items be probed, but Dumbledore presumably went to lengths to prevent the true nature of these items from being very obvious. So I don’t know, it’s…
Andrew: As we see with the Snitch.
Eric: Yeah, they just get little puzzles. They just get little riddles, essentially. Dumbledore is giving them some brain teasers, because that’s a very Dumbledore thing to do.
Andrew: I do understand Scrimgeour’s frustration here. I mean, this is a little strange. Why is Dumbledore, a very wise, clever man, handing these items off to them? I guess it’s not so much of a surprise that they are receiving something, but why these specific items? And what I love about this is Dumbledore still feels very present despite having passed. This is just so in character for him to frustrate, confuse, and surprise the Ministry. It’s like he’s still alive. He’s haunting them after death. [laughs]
Laura: He definitely is.
Eric: Still shouting, “Nitwit, blubber, oddment, tweak.” What does it mean, Dumbledore?
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: So it’s just delicious watching the Ministry try to figure out why Dumbledore left these items, especially for Ron and Hermione. [laughs]
Eric: I agree it’s delicious, but as a reader, it can be a little grating, I think. When Harry eventually – not to jump too far ahead – but figures out the Snitch thing, because Hermione talks about the flesh memory, except instead of opening to reveal the Resurrection Stone that we all know is inside, it just says, “I open at the close.” The words appear. What does that mean? It’s not a satisfying mystery; it means J.K. Rowling is not telling. You’ve got to wait till the end of the book to find out what this thing is going to do. You have it now, you’re going to have to carry it in your little rucksack or your mokeskin pouch, but there are no answers for you, Harry, because the book isn’t done yet. And I find that some of these contrivances of the plot are becoming a little bit more numerous in this final installment, so they kind of rub me a little wrong way. But it’s fun to see that Hermione got a book, twice in this set of chapters that Hermione acquires a book or more from Dumbledore, admittedly under vastly different circumstances.
Andrew: One was stolen, one was given. That is funny. Back to back chapters.
Eric: Well, stolen, eh…
Andrew: I would call it stolen. No? Was that not…? Stolen from Hogwarts, maybe.
Eric: Pilfered?
Laura: You know what? It’s for the greater good.
Andrew: For the greater good, yeah.
Eric: For the greater good.
Andrew: She’s borrowed it, let’s say.
Micah: She’s going to return it.
Eric: She’s going to give it back.
Andrew: Sure. What’s the opposite of Accio? [laughs]
Eric: Oh, there is one. There is one, actually. I don’t remember.
Sara: “Yeet.”
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Eric: “Yeetus Makeetus!”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Laura: She just goes to the top of the Astronomy Tower and she just pitches those books over when she’s done with them.
Eric: Is it Depulso? Or is that something else?
Andrew: Some propulsion spell, I was thinking of, in the game.
Laura: Oh, I think it is Depulso.
Andrew: Okay. Oh, yeah, Becky got it too.
Laura: All those freakin’ Depulso puzzles. My God.
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: Anyway.
Eric: But Andrew, you feel strongly about Hermione’s book.
Andrew: Yeah, I mean, this is the best gift ever for Hermione to receive. Dumbledore is asking her to read something, and she has to figure out why? Say less. I mean, this is just… this is perfect for her.
Micah: And what I love about it too is that this copy is in ancient runes, isn’t it?
Eric: Pretty much.
Sara: At least the title.
Laura: At the very least, yeah.
Micah: So that’s something that only… well, I guess if the Ministry is going over it, presumably somebody at the Ministry would be able to decipher the entire book.
Eric: Decryptors hired by the Ministry should be able to…
Micah: But it’s something special to her because she’s the only one of the three that ever took that class, and that goes back to at least starting it in Prisoner of Azkaban.
Laura: Well, and now technically Hermione kind of has all the answers in front of her, because she stole all the Horcrux books from Dumbledore, and now he’s provided her with the blueprint for Hallows, right? So she has information on both of these things that are pretty integral to the plot of this book and the whole series right in front of her.
Micah: And Harry now has two Hallows in his possession.
Andrew: Oooh.
Micah: He just doesn’t know it.
Eric: Well, we talked about the Snitch as well that Harry gets, and it’s a bit interesting because there’s this tense moment where Scrimgeour sure knows that something might happen when Harry touches it, but it doesn’t happen. And apparently, there was a fourth item that they were going to get but cannot get because it was not Dumbledore’s to give. Apparently, Dumbledore tried to will the sword of Gryffindor away. Isn’t that neat?
Andrew: That is neat.
Laura: I mean, think about… I don’t know, think about if somebody tried to will away some historical document, like the Constitution of the United States.
Eric: Oh, yeah.
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: They’re just like, “I’m going to leave this in my will to this kid.”
Andrew: “Accio.”
Micah: I mean, don’t… I mean, never mind. I’m not going there.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Micah: Stranger things have happened.
Laura: I mean, you know what, Micah? Some people might try to do some silly nonsense like that.
Micah: I mean, I wouldn’t be surprised if that person also tries to sign it themselves.
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: Yes.
Eric: But okay, so maybe this is a situation where Dumbledore knew that wouldn’t fly, but the fact that they have to be informed that it was coming to them, but they couldn’t get it, is the biggest clue. It’s the most direct clue that Dumbledore could possibly leave them. Nothing more says “Get the friggin’ sword” than “I tried to give you the sword.”
Andrew: [laughs] Right.
Eric: So now they have some clue of like, “Man, if only we had, I know, the sword!” It’s the key to everything. I mean, I see this in the doc: How many Horcruxes does the sword end up destroying? More than half.
Sara: Well, eventually Snape takes the sword, the real sword, and hides it. So has he already done that at this point? If they were to give Harry the sword of Gryffindor, is it the replica that’s already been put in Dumbledore’s office?
Eric: I’m unclear on it, because I thought one was…
Sara: So he may not even get the real one.
Eric: Yeah, yeah. And then where would we be?
Sara: Yeah, I think Dumbledore just willed it away as a clue.
Eric: It’s got to be a clue. It’s got to be how he communicates.
Andrew: It’s great. Yeah, it’s a great little wink. Absolutely.
Eric: It also makes Dumbledore seem crazy to the Ministry, right? It makes him seem kind of out of touch, which I think prevents further scrutiny for the other items that are being gifted. You know what I’m saying? It’s like, “Oh, well, this old man, he left a device seems to put out lights, and a book, and a sword that it’s not even his to give. We’re not going to think too much about this.” And the Snitch on the surface seems just like the most sentimental thing ever to give Harry.
Andrew: Yeah, no, I like your point. It’s like, “Well, if he thinks he can give the sword, then he’s just kind of pulling items out of his butt just because he thinks they’re good little Christmas stocking stuffers.”
Micah: What’s interesting about the Snitch, though, is that Dumbledore would have kept that for how many years? Six?
Andrew: So you’re asking why has he waited?
Eric: Well, they have to go somewhere.
Micah: No, it’s a little creepy…
Eric: No.
Micah: … that he would keep the Snitch that Harry caught in his first ever Quidditch match.
Eric: I bet Dumbledore has all of them. He has all of Harry’s Snitch balls.
Andrew: What if he…? Maybe he intended it as a gift to give him once he graduated at some point?
Laura: Yeah, “Here’s the Snitch that you almost choked on.”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: It is meaningful, though. His first Snitch, a skilled Quidditch player?
Micah: No, I’m not saying it’s not meaningful; I’m just saying it’s weird that he held on to it for six years.
Andrew: I could picture that being an intended graduation gift early on.
Eric: Yeah, no, I agree. I don’t think it was like from day one Dumbledore was like, “I’m going to hide a clue in this.” I think that he… maybe the headmaster just has an opportunity to… we don’t know what they do with other Golden Snitches that were caught.
Sara: Yeah, maybe they have all of them. They’re required to keep all those records for seven years.
Eric: Maybe.
Sara: And there’s a trunk full of every Hogwarts Snitch.
Eric: Or there’s a black market for used Snitches.
Micah: Maybe.
Eric: Anyway, the question about the Snitch again and what the message is on the front of it. Does anybody else have any other insight into why the phrase “I open at the close”? Because what even is the close? It’s when Harry, to open it, just says, “I have lost everything,” or “I’m prepared to die” or something, but the close of your life? The close of the book? It just is too meta for me. I don’t think I ever properly understood the phrase.
Laura: I think it refers to the close of life and the acceptance that Harry ultimately has that he has to sacrifice himself.
Eric: Does anybody ever refer to it as the close of life, though?
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: No, but I mean…
Andrew: My life is closing.
Laura: [laughs] Somebody just starts playing “Closing Time.”
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: [singing] “Closing time…”
Eric: No, but really, though. I’m not questioning your use of the word; I’m questioning the use of the word. Why is it referred to as “the close”?
Laura: Well, it’s cryptic, intentionally so.
Andrew: I don’t know. It is cryptic. It is a fun little riddle. I like it, personally.
Eric: A fun little riddle.
Andrew: It’s not clear on its face what it means, and then what’s the purpose?
Micah: Harry comes to this revelation much earlier in the books than he does in the movie. I was thinking back to… I think it’s when he’s camping and he’s just with Hermione, and he has that epiphany that his first Snitch he actually almost swallowed instead of caught with his hands. So it’s kind of cool to have that clue so early on in the book, not knowing really what it means. I mean, we’re getting a lot of that sprinkled throughout these chapters at the Burrow, whether we’re talking about how to destroy a Horcrux, or we’re talking about The Tales of Beedle the Bard, or we’re talking about the Snitch and opening at the close. I also wonder… it’s kind of like the Sorcerer’s Stone part of the Mirror of Erised. It’s almost like Dumbledore is entrusting Harry… the Resurrection Stone almost being something that you want it, but you don’t necessarily want to use it, and I wonder if that plays into it at all. I don’t know.
Eric: I’m honestly a bit surprised that the Resurrection Stone is even still usable. It had a sword stabbed through it.
Andrew: [laughs] You’re saying, Micah, it’s kind of a last resort type of thing, and that’s why it opens at the close?
Micah: Right, yeah, Harry is not… it opens because Harry is not looking to intentionally use it. I know he does do the three turns, but he’s not looking to bring anybody back.
Eric: Right. He’s pure of… I know exactly what you’re saying. It is very Erised.
Micah: Yeah, I’m not doing the best job explaining it, but…
Sara: We’re connecting back to the Philosopher’s Stone. Only the person who wanted to find it, but not use it.
Micah: You said it much better than I did. Thank you, Sara.
[Andrew laughs]
Odds & Ends
Eric: We have reached the end of the chapter, but there were actually a ton of little odds and ends that I wanted to shout out here. So let’s talk about the other birthday gifts that Harry gets, including: The Delacours give him chocolate. Everyone loves chocolate, very tasty. He receives a watch that was Fabian Prewett’s. Don’t know what happened to Gideon’s watch, but Fabian’s is now Harry’s to have, and that was a gift from Arthur and Molly.
Andrew: That’s a very, very meaningful gift. To pass a family heirloom to your chosen family member? Wow. And I think Molly or Arthur also notes… or some Weasley notes that when you come of age, you do get a watch as a gift.
Eric: In the wizarding world, it’s a tradition.
Andrew: Yeah, for Harry, I mean, this is really a meaningful invitation into the Weasley family, if he wasn’t feeling that way already. Wow, I’m very stunned by that gift. Better than any sweater! No, that was meaningful too. That was meaningful too.
Eric: Well, speaking of sweaters, or at least woven things, a mokeskin pouch arrives from Hagrid, or Hagrid brings it. And this is an interesting… it’s not clear to me how exactly it works, but only the owner can retrieve what they put in it.
Andrew: I love this. I want one of these. It’s like a safe.
Eric: Kind of.
Andrew: How it works? Given that Hagrid, beasts are kind of his thing, I would like to think that if Ron put his hand into the pouch, it would bite Ron.
[Micah laughs]
Andrew: Like a Monster Book of Monsters but a pouch. That’s my thinking.
Micah: We also saw the Monster Book of Monsters. Was it this chapter or the previous one?
Laura: I think it was the previous one?
Eric: I think that’s right, because it opens up. I’m looking it up because I was trying to figure out if moke is an animal… because I always want to read it as moleskin pouch, so I picture little moles coming out, preventing you…
Andrew: Oh.
Eric: But a moke can mean a donkey in British slang.
Andrew: Well, according to the Harry Potter wiki, it’s a magical lizard with silver/green skin.
Eric: Oh.
Andrew: A moke, M-O-K-E.
Micah: Sara, you had some good ideas, though, for what could go in there.
Sara: Yeah, if only the mokeskin pouch’s owner can get into it, why didn’t Voldemort just put his Horcruxes in there?
Andrew: Augh!
Laura: Great call. And similar to that, RachelPuff in our Discord is saying, “Kills me that they don’t put the freaking locket in there.”
Andrew: [laughs] Okay, but there’s got to be a way to break into the mokeskin, right? I mean…
Eric: Maybe?
Micah: You’ve got to cut off Voldemort’s hand, then.
Andrew: Yeah, maybe you’ve got to sacrifice something. Creating Horcruxes, you’re splitting your soul. Maybe you’ve got to split your soul to get into somebody else’s mokeskin.
Eric: There’s got to be a way. Well, anyway, it’s a pretty good gift from Hagrid, especially because considering certain years, he just gives him some of his cooking. Anyway, moving on, we have a gender reveal.
[Andrew gasps]
Eric: It turns out that Norbert, or formerly known as Norbert – sorry, we just dead named her…
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: … is now known as Norberta. And Hagrid asks, “How can you tell?” Because Charlie shows up and delivers this information. And Charlie says that female dragons are a lot more vicious. So I guess as long as nobody lets this dragon play sports, we’re okay.
Micah: So hold on a second, if I may. The Care of Magical Creatures professor presumably does not know how to tell the difference between a male dragon and a female dragon. Now, I do understand that Norberta was very young when Hagrid first had her, and presumably now, though, she’s what, seven, six years older than she was in Philosopher’s Stone?
Andrew: But Micah, we know Hagrid isn’t the last sharpest tool in the magical creature shed.
Micah: Well, I’m just saying, though. “How can you tell”? I mean, the dragon [censored] are not a giveaway?
[Laura laughs]
Eric: No, how often do you hear…? You know about cats and dogs, though, right? How often do you hear that people have… families get a cat that the vet said was a boy cat, and then all of a sudden, after a day on the neighborhood…
Micah: Surprise.
Eric: … that your cat has kittens or something, is pregnant. You’re like, “I thought it was a boy cat.” You just can’t tell. It’s not well defined, and nor can you… this is why Charlie Weasley says it’s about temperament, that female dragons are a lot more vicious. That’s the only way you can tell, because you can’t go and lift up the dragon’s skirt.
Sara: My friends had a tortoise named Tinker Bell who turned out to actually be Tinker Bill.
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: That’s funny.
Andrew: Okay, a tortoise makes more sense because of the shell, but I agree with Micah. You should be able to tell in other ways.
Micah: I just think it’s an absurd question for Hagrid to ask.
Eric: It’s kind of a strange development.
Micah: Unless he’s already been in his cups a little bit, which we know he’s prone to.
Andrew: That’s quite possible.
Laura: Very likely.
Andrew: Celebrating Harry’s birthday. [laughs]
Eric: So here’s an interesting thing: Harry has a vision that Voldemort, fresh off of his flying tour of Surrey, is now calmly walking down a misty village entry road, looking for someone called Gregorovitch.
Micah: Yes.
Eric: And it’s not Gorgovitch, Ron’s Quidditch player friend.
Micah: Look, I am just very happy to see that Voldemort prioritizes his mental health and is taking some PTO in this very charming village.
Andrew: Ahh.
Eric: After that setback.
Micah: Yeah, look, he had a little bit of a setback, and he said, “You know what? I need some time off of work,” and he’s vacationing in the countryside.
Andrew: Right. Yeah, that’s some good self-care.
Micah: Now, I don’t know how well he can breathe in that air with his lack of nose, but…
Andrew: [laughs] So Eric, your point is he’s just walking around out on the streets. That seems a little odd, right?
Eric: Well, it’s interesting insight that if Hermione had been in the room when this happened, we would have pretty quickly been able to guess at what exactly is happening, because Gregorovitch is a well-known wandmaker. So it’s an example of Harry getting a clue way early; we were just talking about this with the Snitch. Harry gets the pieces of the puzzle way early, and due to not having the right team around him or not being as well-versed himself, is not able to maybe do with the information what would be most important. If he had told any of the adult Order members, “Hey, Voldemort is looking for some guy named Gregorovitch,” that would have maybe affected or moved the needle somehow.
Sara: Well, it’s interesting because he actually specifically tells Ron not to tell Hermione, so if they just laid all their cards out, they could have known sooner.
Eric: Is he still embarrassed for not doing the Occlumency?
Laura: Yeah, he doesn’t want the lecture.
Eric: That figures. And Sara, you had a shout-out to Harry’s… the sass-ometer is through the roof here.
Sara: I just like when Harry has his sassy lines. We picked up the Snitch and Scrimgeour is waiting for something to happen, and nothing happens, and he says, “Well, that was dramatic.”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: “Just trying to defuse the tension.”
Andrew: “That was dramatic.”
Sara: Just a classic Harry sassy line.
Eric: It is a classic Harry sass line.
Andrew: And in front of the Minister of Magic? That makes it all the much sweeter.
Lynx Line
Andrew: Time for the Lynx Line. Category is: Which of Dumbledore’s belongings would you most want to be given in his will? What do you want to Accio out of his belongings? [laughs] And for this question, it could be one of the four items he leaves to the trio, or something else mentioned in the series. And most people went with something just generally from the series. Sara, as our guest this week, you kick things off.
Sara: I want the Pensieve.
Andrew: Oooh.
Sara: I want it to use it for myself just because I can, but I also want all of Dumbledore’s memories to still be in there, and then I can walk through them at my leisure.
Andrew: Yeah, yeah. Dumbledore’s got style; I want one of his hats. I’m a pretty big hat person, and just knowing that Dumbledore was walking around in one of these, maybe some of his brains would rub off on me.
Eric: It’s a noble hope. I said that I would want his forbidden books that Hermione got from him. I’m really curious about what else is in there, you guys, besides Horcruxes. I don’t want to use the knowledge; I just want to get the knowledge. It’s like Micah was saying: My intentions are pure.
Andrew: All right, we’re going to keep an eye on you, though.
Eric: Okay.
Micah: I went with Fawkes.
Eric: Oh, hell yeah.
Andrew: Fawke yeah.
[Everyone laughs]
Micah: We’re going to go get…
Laura: Reached that point in the show.
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: I said the Elder Wand.
Andrew: Oooh.
Laura: I mean, if Dumbledore already willed Harry the Resurrection Stone via the Snitch, why not give him a third one? Make this easier, not make it super easy for Voldemort to come and take it out of his grave. Just a thought.
Andrew: Okay.
Eric: That’s pretty good, yeah.
Andrew: Over on Patreon, Zach agreed with you, Micah. “Fawkes, duh! Who wouldn’t want a songbird whose tears can cure anything?”
Eric: John had a very creative one that I’m very heavily giggling over: “His Hogwarts pension.”
Andrew: Love it, yeah. Smart.
Micah: I like that. Michael said, “His Bombas socks!” This week’s episode is brought to you by Bombas…
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: I wish.
Micah: He says, “I hear they’re super comfy.”
Laura: They are.
Micah: The way I originally read that, though, was “bomb-ass socks.”
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Eric: His bomb-ass socks!
Andrew: I think it could be both.
Micah: Both apply for Dumbledore.
Laura: Well, Thad says, “Those dope-ass robes. He DOES have style.”
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Man, those bomb-ass socks, those dope-ass robes, his hats… we’re really appreciating Dumbledore.
Andrew: He’s so cool.
Sara: Robert says, “I’d like the special Pensieve he kept specifically to store his memories of his evenings with Grindelwald.”
Andrew: Oooh.
Sara: Spicy.
Andrew: Jared said,
“A journal laying out clearly everything I need to know to survive, kill Horcruxes, the whole story of his life, everything about Snape, the Deathly Hallows… literally telling me ‘everything’ like he claimed he told Harry in Book 5.”
Mic drop.
Eric: We’ve got to get the Dumbledore encyclopedia. It’s got to be out… yesterday.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: And Shannon says,
“For sure the Pensieve. I’d love to be able to revisit old memories as a third party observer.”
Big theory, Sara.
“You could learn stuff and see other perspectives, yes, but you could also just revisit a fun vacation and experience it again, or go back to when your growing children were babies and see their tiny selves learning to walk or saying ‘I love you’ the first time. You could go back to a happy moment before a loved one passed on. Go back to your most embarrassing moment and see just how much no one else cared as much as you feared they did. The possibilities are endless.”
Andrew: Yeah, it seems like the Pensieve is the winner, and it’s an interesting one.
Micah: I didn’t think of that either.
Andrew: Well, if you have feedback about today’s episode, you can send an email or a voice memo to MuggleCast@gmail.com. Can also reach out via the Spotify comments, the YouTube comments, or slide into our DMs.
Quizzitch
Andrew: And before we wrap up, it’s time for the answer to this week’s Quizzitch question.
[Quizzitch music plays]
Eric: The question was: What is the original name of the Deluminator? And it is known as the Put-Outer. We have correct answers submitted to us live over on Discord – with no coercion – from Sam, Charlie, LegalizeGillyweed, Forty, and Becky. Also, LegalizeGillyweed says, “I know it’s the Put-Outer, but I always say Putter-Outer.”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: So that’s fun. It is Put-Outer, is the way that it’s described. Thank you all for participating live. For those listening along, hope you knew that as well. It’s almost so interesting to see it written as Deluminator, when we know from Chapter 1 of Book 1, it’s the Put-Outer. What does it do? It puts out lights.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: Next week, Chapter by Chapter continues with Chapter 8 of Deathly Hallows, “The Wedding.” And that’s also interesting because Eric is about to get married. Eric’s wedding, as we record right now, is two weeks away.
Eric: Ahh.
Andrew: Funny timing. Funny thing, time.
Eric: It’s a bit funny timing, yeah. Well, I’m looking so forward to it.
Micah: We had so much fun.
Andrew: Yeah. Oh, what, at the wedding, you’re saying?
Micah: Yeah.
Andrew: Oh, yeah. This might be released after, I guess? Yeah. Sara, thanks so much for joining us today. It was a pleasure to have you on. Thanks for all your insights.
Sara: Yeah, thanks for having me. I’m really excited to be here.
Andrew: Of course, of course. And thanks for your support on Patreon as well. We really appreciate it. Listeners, visit MuggleCast.com for links to our social media, our Patreon, our transcripts, our favorite episodes, and lots more. Thanks, everybody, for listening. I’m Andrew.
Eric: I’m Eric.
Micah: I’m Micah.
Laura: I’m Laura.
Sara: And I’m Sara.
Andrew: Bye, everyone!
Laura and Micah: Bye.