MuggleCast 632 Transcript

 

Transcript for MuggleCast Episode #632, The Benefits of Electric Fireplaces (GOF Chapter 4, Back to the Burrow)

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Show Intro

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[Show music plays]

Andrew Sims: Welcome to MuggleCast, your weekly ride into the wizarding world fandom. I’m Andrew.

Eric Scull: I’m Eric.

Micah Tannenbaum: I’m Micah.

Laura Tee: And I’m Laura.

Andrew: Unblock your fireplace; Chapter by Chapter is coming floo. Whoa, what word play, Eric.

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Eric: Thanks, Andrew.

Micah: Can we make that the seven-word summary?

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Micah: Somehow, someway?

Andrew: This week we’re discussing Chapter 4, “Back to the Burrow.” But first, a couple of quick reminders. Micah, Quizzitch Live is coming up.

Micah: Yeah, Quizzitch Live is coming later on this week, next Saturday, October 28, 11:00 a.m. Eastern time. I know we’re all very excited to be bringing this back. This is something we all enjoy, doing our best Alex Trebek, Ken Jennings, Mayim Bialik impressions. Impersonations, I should say. It’s something that during the pandemic was, I think, important for us and important for our listeners. We really enjoy doing it; we enjoy giving away prizes. So this edition, I know we’ve talked about it on previous episodes, it’s going to be a little bit Halloween-themed with the wizarding world candy and with James and Lily, but the main focus of it is on OWLs. Charms, Potions, Transfiguration, and Defense Against the Dark Arts. Do not study anything other than those subjects. Don’t waste your time because there’s not going to be any questions on other subjects, just those. And shout-out to Nicole H. for coming up with the questions. She’s a longtime listener of the show going all the way back to 2005.

Andrew: And there’s also going to be the wizarding world candy in the James and Lily category, so maybe study up there, too, if you want. But yeah, this is always a lot of fun. We’ll have more info posted on social media so you can tune in live and participate.

Eric: Do you guys remember HQ? How everyone would tune in for that? It was so… this is that level of interactivity and fun, except you’re part of our group when you can go live. And when you’re listening at home later, you can still have all the fun that we’re having talking about Harry Potter. It’s just always a good time.

Andrew: And in our version of live trivia, you’ll win more than a nickel if you actually win the game.

[Micah laughs]

Eric: I don’t think I ever won a nickel.

Andrew: So yeah, stay tuned for that. Also, just a reminder, visit MuggleCast.com for transcripts, social media links, our full episode archive, our favorite episodes, and to contact us. And visit Patreon.com/MuggleCast if you want to support the show and receive early access to the show, ad-free episodes, bonus episodes, yearly physical gifts, and much more. Actually, speaking of bonus episodes, we’re doing two a month, and we’re recording two right after this episode. Eric first, what’s on tap from you?

Eric: Well, Andrew, we have each received a prestigious invitation for a Halloween ball at Malfoy Manor. It’s been 19 years since the events of Book 7, so don’t worry, the place is kind of chill.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: And we’re going to be designing our own wizarding world Halloween costumes, but we’re using magic because we’re all witches and wizards. So the sky is the limit. We’re each going to pick a cool outfit. And we’ll be hearing from patrons, also, who had the same prompt.

Andrew: And then Laura, you’re bringing back a bonus MuggleCast that we did a few weeks ago. We had so much fun with it, so we’re doing another installment.

Laura: Yeah, we’re doing a second installment of Harry Potter headcanons where we propose some of our favorite interpretations of what might have been going on behind the scenes, maybe not on the page from Harry’s perspective, but ultimately, things that don’t break canon but that still add depth to the story. This ended up being a really popular installment of bonus MuggleCast when we did it, so we decided, let’s do a second edition. And who knows? Maybe this will be a recurring theme.

Andrew: It should be, because the sky’s the limit with this segment, I think. So those will both be available at Patreon.com/MuggleCast in the next couple of weeks. You can listen to all of our bonus audio content and ad-free MuggleCast and early access to MuggleCast through your favorite podcast apps, by the way. There’s just this one time setup after you pledge on Patreon.

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Chapter by Chapter: Seven-Word Summary

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Andrew: All right, with that, let’s get to Chapter by Chapter, and this week we’re discussing Chapter 4 of Goblet of Fire, “Back to the Burrow,” and we’ll start with our seven-word summary.

[Seven-Word Summary music plays]

Andrew: Arthur…

Eric: … attempts…

Micah: … to…

Laura: … help…

Eric: … with…

Micah: … Dudley’s…

Andrew: … tongue.

Laura: Hey, we did it.

Eric: Yay!

[Seven-Word Summary music ends]

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Chapter by Chapter: Main Discussion

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Eric: Last week we did two chapters in a row because they were short and to the point. This one is also short and to the point, but I thought it was worth saving this episode for just this chapter, because I wanted to detail out all of the egregious offenses that the Weasleys visit upon the Dursleys. And there are so many things I think that we’re going to be discussing about how this whole situation need not have happened and was needlessly cruel to everyone’s favorite nicest Muggles in the world, Vernon, Petunia, and Dudley.

Andrew: And Eric tends to be a pretty big Weasley fanboy, so for him to come out with this list of offenses, I think, is pretty shocking.

[Eric laughs]

Micah: Just Ginny.

Andrew: Well, yeah.

Eric: Yes, Ginny is spared from this criticism. The first offense I want to talk about is not just sending a single delegate. So we’re trying to get Harry to the Burrow, and he’s going to have a great extra two weeks in the wizarding world from what he normally would because they have the Quidditch World Cup. So why is it that Arthur, Ron, Fred, and George all need to come? When it’s just a simple… somebody could come through, give him some Floo Powder, “Harry, come with us.” The Dursleys are just three people. They’re already apprehensive about magic; everyone knows it. Why would there be more than two Weasleys coming to get Harry? And we know in the next chapter Fred and George force their way in, but it shouldn’t even be the kids. Ron already knows what Harry looks like; there’s no point for Ron to be there. Arthur should have brought Molly. Sending the parents would have been the formal thing to do. Remember the chapter “The Invitation”?

Micah: The proper thing.

Eric: The proper thing! The proper thing, especially if they’re trying to make a good impression on these people who are predisposed to dislike wizards.

Andrew: Right, I mean, that’s the key factor there, that they are already very hesitant to be around wizards. They are repulsed by them, it stresses them out, they’re afraid they’re going to attack. So Arthur needs to get control of his kids – see Fred and George…

[Micah laughs]

Andrew: … and not let them go, because he probably sensed this too. He shouldn’t bring a bigger group to pick up Harry.

Micah: It does make sense to me, though, that Ron is there, because he’s Harry’s friend. So naturally, Arthur would take Ron along with him. Fred and George, however, saw an opportunity to create a little bit of havoc, and I think they pounced on that opportunity and decided to come along with Arthur in this case.

Andrew: Or why not just…? Okay, so it’s Ron, Arthur, and Molly, and Arthur and Molly wait on the roof and Ron goes down the chimney by himself, or just knocks on the door, which will…

Laura: Like he’s Santa Claus or something?

[Everyone laughs]

Laura: That’s not how the Floo network works.

Andrew: Arthur and Molly are the reindeer. I’m just trying to think of a less intrusive way for them to get through while still using the chimney.

Micah: Oh, there’s some AI. I’ll work on that for you, Andrew.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: [sings] Molly, the red-haired reindeer…

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Eric: Wow, that’s really good.

Micah: Well, we’re two months early for this, but okay.

Laura: I don’t know if this would have gone any better if Arthur had brought Molly. Certainly from the perspective of nobody dropping magic candy on the ground for Dudley to get, right? But I feel like Molly, if anything, is even less knowledgeable about Muggle culture, and could have potentially contributed to things getting more awkward between all of them. I don’t know. I mean, the fact that she even refers in her letter to Harry needing to send his response back the “normal” way… I just think about what her filter would have been in front of the Dursleys, and I don’t know that she would have had one. I think Arthur at least tries.

Eric: That’s true. When Arthur defends, kind of makes Vernon say goodbye to the boy, Molly wouldn’t have let that sit. She would have gone further than that with them.

Micah: It’s also important to remember, though, that Arthur has experience with Muggles, as opposed to Molly, going off what you’re saying, Laura. So Arthur may know how to read the room a little bit better – not totally because things get out of control – but it also raises a question that I had a little bit later on, but why would the Weasleys not let Harry know how they were going to show up?

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: That seems like a big miss that causes a lot of chaos when they decide to pop through the fireplace.

Eric: Yeah, you’re exactly right about that.

Laura: Yeah, they probably just, again, assumed that Harry would know how they were going to arrive. Because he’s been in the wizarding world; he’s familiar with their forms of travel. But what they’re not accounting for is that Harry spent the first 11 years of his life thinking he was a Muggle, right? So I imagine when he goes back to the Dursleys, there’s a different part of his brain that is on. It’s his Muggle brain because he knows he’s there, he can’t use magic, things are not going to be like they are in the other world where he spends 90% of his time. And because the Weasleys have no frame of reference for that, they don’t even think to bring it up to him.

Andrew: And I mean, a theory we go back to time and time again is that wizards just love chaos.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Harry says it himself about Hogwarts a chapter or two ago.

Eric: “Wizards.” We mean Dumbledore, but yes, wizards.

Andrew: Well, just everybody doesn’t seem to mind. Nobody seems to mind the chaos if you’re a wizard.

Micah: Dumbledore is totally watching from outside the window. That’s my headcanon.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Eric: He’s just had tea with Mrs. Figg. Yeah, we’ll put that in the bonus. Yeah, the second offense I want to talk about – and this leans a little bit more toward Fred and George – but I think in general, being insensitive to Dudley’s trauma. Dudley has trauma. Dudley in this chapter is shown multiple times to be grabbing his own backside, rubbing his backside. He remembers, as it turns out, this time when he had a pig’s tail when Hagrid tried to turn him into a whole pig and it failed. In fact, this book actually talks about how the Dursleys had to go to a private hospital to have that tail removed. Look, Dudley does not, and for good reason, have a liking for wizards. He doesn’t feel safe around them; look at what happened last time for no reason. So it’s just unfortunate that the Weasleys would show up and use so much magic. They’re capable of Muggle transit, they drove a car to the Burrow last time… they flew a car. But just using magic, arriving by magic… I know they can’t predict the fireplace will be boarded up, but I think that there was a better way to more calmly… I mean, again, everything everyone knows about the Dursleys is they don’t like magic. Try and arrive in a more normal way. That’s why the invitation was sent through the post and not by owl, because they already knew enough to know the Dursleys don’t like magic. So showing up using all this magic, not to mention what Fred and George do to Dudley on purpose, is very insensitive to Dudley’s trauma.

Micah: Can we just talk… you mentioned the fireplace. You mentioned trauma. Just wanted to bring up the fact that, as you alluded to, it is boarded up. So there’s an additional layer of some kind of trauma that exists here on the part of Vernon and Petunia because they have assumingly not let their fireplace operate as a normal fireplace since Sorcerer’s Stone. They have an electric one in front of it. [laughs]

Eric: Yeah, you’re right. That’s a sign of trauma. They don’t feel safe in their own home while their fireplace remains un-boarded.

Andrew: There’s many good reasons to have an electric fireplace, though. No smoke, energy efficient, save money, low maintenance, anyone can enjoy an electric fireplace.

Micah: Are you reading that?

Eric: Andrew, who are our sponsors this week?

[Laura and Micah laugh]

Andrew: I googled benefits of electric fireplace. [laughs] Besides blocking wizards.

Eric: Oh, yeah. Well, that’s a bonus for the Dursleys if they were trying to…

Micah: Sorry, I didn’t mean to throw off your question.

Andrew: Well, to get back to it, I read this chapter and really thought Dudley is a victim in this chapter, and has been a victim before. He shouldn’t have gotten that tail; that was unfair. And his parents are the ones that are enabling his bad behavior. He didn’t need to be raised this way. So I just I feel bad for Dudley in this chapter.

Laura: Yeah, his parents definitely set him up for failure. An interesting interpretation I had of this, though – it’s not to say that Dudley isn’t traumatized or that this wasn’t horrible for him – but just zooming out and thinking about the total landscape, the Weasleys don’t know about the pig tail from three years ago. Again, that doesn’t justify anything, but it’s knowledge that they don’t have, I believe. And I do read this through the lens of culture shock, in a way, because I think we’ve all probably experienced this at one point or another, whether we were in another country or otherwise immersed in another culture. Things that may seem obvious to all of us based on our cultural understanding may be the complete opposite if you step into someone else’s home, and I think that’s what’s happening here. I didn’t have this interpretation originally reading the book, I think, because they’re all British, so to an extent, I wasn’t thinking about the idea of culture shock. But them being British is almost secondary to them being wizards versus them being Muggles, which I think is just a really interesting read on the situation. Because you can see the Dursleys, for all of their flaws, they are trying to put their best foot forward in the only way they know how. Arthur is trying to put his best foot forward in the only way he knows how, and it’s just not working.

Eric: I think it’s clear that Fred and George do tip the scale into disaster from slight discomfort.

Laura: Yes.

Eric: So there is at least that, where you’re right, they’re putting their best feet forward. I’ll also say it’s a really great point of this didn’t necessarily come across when we were younger and reading this; it does just seem like culture… now I’m like, “Oh my God, the Weasleys are awful.” [laughs]

Andrew: I had this thought too. Well, especially when it comes to just how Fred and George treated Dudley. As a kid, you read this and you’re like, “Haha, prank.” And that’s the type of thing you see in school maybe, and you don’t think about how that would actually affect the person who the prank is being played on. But now you read it as an adult, and with hindsight and getting older, you’re like, “Whoa, that was actually really, really, really mean.” And as a kid, it’s entertaining. As an adult, it’s disturbing.

Micah: You could make the same point, too, about Sorcerer’s Stone and what Hagrid does. We look past it because Dudley is getting into Harry’s birthday cake, and so, oh, let’s punish Dudley for just wanting to do what he’s always done because his parents have enabled him in that way. But really, you could look at Dudley as being a victim in that chapter as well. Both Dudley and Harry are victims of the Dursleys in very different ways. And Dudley gets his fair share, whether it’s Book 1, it’s in this book, it’s in the next book with the Dementors… he does take quite a beating physically and emotionally in this series.

Eric: That’s a great point. And viewing this through the lens of culture shock, when I think of culture shock, I think of, like, you go to that friend’s house and you’re asked to take your shoes off, right? And you’re like, “Oh, but I wear shoes all around my house,” which is disgusting; you should never do it.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: But you know how that was a big thing. I feel like it came in vogue, or it’s like, “Wait, what? Take my shoes off out front?” It’s like the difference between when they arrive and the fireplace is boarded up; Mr. Weasley is just like, “Wait a minute, why? Who would board up…? What? How does that…?” And you’re right, it’s not really necessarily even a normal response to what happened, because I love this note in the doc. Why didn’t they board up the windows? Why didn’t they…? The letters were coming in the eggs.

Andrew: Yeah, where does it end?

Micah: But because the fireplace is boarded up, that leads to that additional level of culture shock, to your point, Laura, because he has to essentially blow open the fireplace, get the living room completely dirty. He’s got to reset a fire in the hearth for them to be able to get back. So all these things happen as if the Dursleys had just not chosen to board up the fireplace because of their own biases initially. Arthur would have probably made a little bit of a different entrance. It still would have been culture shock, but I don’t know if it would have been as intense.

Laura: Yeah. Well, because to Arthur and to a wizard, they think about making a huge mess like that; it’s not a big deal, because you can just use magic to clean it up real quick. But that’s not a reality for a Muggle, right? Petunia is looking at that being like, “Oh my God, I have to clean all of this up.”

Eric: Yeah, she’s thinking of the physical labor that she’s going to… yeah. And it’s little white dust. If anyone’s ever damaged their wall, that dust goes everywhere. I don’t even think a Reparo can get it all. So this third offense – by the way, there are five – Andrew agrees with me. It’s showing up late af, okay? The Dursleys, try as they might to be as ready as they can, are ready to receive the Weasleys at 4:45 for a 5:00 appointment. They’re dressed nicely, the house is pristine, Harry’s stuff has been packed up since noon. And yet, it isn’t until 5:30, 45 minutes after they’re ready…

Andrew: Ugh.

Eric: … 5:30 that the commotion behind the fireplace starts, so I think it is safe to say that the Weasleys were not on time. This is an egregious offense against everyone. And they really had one shot at this and they blew it.

Andrew: I hate when people are late. And I think we need to ask ourselves, are the Weasleys the type of people who are perpetually late to things? I don’t think there’s a ton to suggest this in the text. But maybe they are, and it wouldn’t surprise me with such a big family. There’s a lot of people to get ready, a lot of fires to be putting out throughout the day.

Eric: And yet, magic helps. A Portkey is timed, you have a timed window, so you can’t possibly be late or you’ll miss the Portkey. In fact, I think that’s the whole thing a few chapters from now. So they’re probably not always late. Look, I get it; when they arrive behind the fireplace, it wasn’t expected that it was blocked, but they didn’t spend 30 minutes stuck behind the fireplace or they would have heard them sooner. They were late. They just showed up. I don’t know what they were doing. I know their clock doesn’t really show time; their clock shows where they are. [laughs] Maybe that’s the problem.

Andrew: Yeah, but I mean, this is an important meeting. They know the Dursleys are going to be expecting them on time. And I know Molly and the Dursleys have seen each other – maybe Arthur, too – prior, on the platform, or outside of Platform 9 3/4. But this is effectively a first meeting. This is an important meeting, and they need to make a good first impression.

Laura: I’ll call that out as another culture shock moment, to be honest with you, because there are absolutely cultures where this is very normal, where you established, “Yeah, we’re going to meet at 5,” and that really means, “We’re meeting at 6.”

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: So again, not saying that nobody has a right to be annoyed by this because that’s just all of our cultural norms, right? I don’t like to be late for things and don’t like to feel like I’m keeping people waiting; it does make me feel weird. But I will confess, I’m pretty bad with time management.

Andrew: I hate being late.

Micah: Me too.

Eric: Thank you for being vulnerable.

Laura: I do hate being late. It gives me so much anxiety. And yet, I’m still late for things.

Andrew: Yeah, Laura, it’s been a sticking point over the years. [sighs]

Laura: Oh, no, I’m calling that out because it’s been well documented, I feel. [laughs]

Andrew: No, I don’t think… I mean, when it comes to our digital work, I don’t think so. We don’t see each other enough in person to know what you’re like. [laughs]

Laura: Oh, okay. Well, if we all ever move into the same neighborhood together, you’ll get to see it firsthand.

Andrew: Right. I’m going to start telling you, “Oh, come over at 4:30,” so you actually come at the time I want you to, which is 5:00 or 5:30 or something like that.

Laura: Yeah, that’s the move. [laughs]

Micah: Learning a lot here today. But I think it just compounds it, though, doesn’t it? I mean, it’s just adding to your list, Eric. Now, I will say I don’t think 30 minutes is late af. It’s late, but it’s not super late.

Andrew: For an important meeting like this and no heads up?

Eric: Well, usually you put af in capitals, and I put it in lowercase. I don’t know if that makes it better.

Micah: You just have to be able to read the room. And we were talking about this earlier, the Weasleys just don’t… at least Arthur doesn’t have enough information on the Dursleys and who they are, and how they function as people, and really how they treat Harry, what their worldviews are… Arthur is doing everything wrong here. Not intentionally, but he’s doing everything wrong.

Eric: Yeah, and you hate to see it because you like to imagine… I know later we’re going to be playing “What If?” [imitates “What If?” sound effect] But you’d like to imagine a world in which the Weasleys and Dursleys can at least exist in the same room without so much acrimony.

Micah: But it’s just so hoity-toity when you hear Petunia say, “Well, of course they’re late, they probably want to stay for dinner.”

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Laura: Oh man.

Eric: And that’s so funny because it’s projecting your own shit on other people. Well, it’s also what Petunia might do; she’s aware of that tactic because she’s the kind of person who… she thinks that way, is what I’m saying. So it’s really interesting, the idea that they would have to feed the Weasleys is a whole other thing. But here’s really the… well, actually, these escalate, these offenses I’ve written down, because number five is even worse. But here’s number four: baiting Dudley. Fred and George know exactly what they’re doing. They know that if they hand candy to a fat kid, he’s still going to be nervous about them and probably not take it, but if they, oopsie, drop candy, which is exactly what happens after Fred and George get from taking Harry’s trunk down from his bedroom, oops, they know that all of the defenses are going to come down and Dudley is going to go grab the toffee, which is what happens. This baiting of Dudley is singly malicious, let alone what it does to him, which is next, but just the baiting is the wrong attitude entirely. This goes beyond a prank.

Laura: Yeah, and they’re exploiting what they know about him being on a very restrictive diet too.

Eric: Ooh, that’s right. Harry told them that just to get food sent to him, and then Fred and George were like, “We can play with this.”

Micah: Yeah, it’s bit sinister.

Laura: It is.

Micah: And we know that Dudley has certain addictions, and one of them is definitely to sweets, and so I think this behavior by the twins is really feeding Dudley’s addiction. It’s tempting him in the moment to betray his diet and all the other things that he’s doing presumably to try and get into better physical shape.

Andrew: And of course, he’s happy to betray his diet.

Micah: Of course, how old is he?

Andrew: I mean, it’s being forced on him. He doesn’t want it at all. Exactly.

Eric: That’s why he’s targeted, he is so calorie restricted right now and then this food just drops on the carpet. And again, it’s done so innocently; if they’d given him the food, Vernon and Petunia would have been like, “No, Dudley, don’t touch that.”

Laura: Do we remember from reading the chapter which one of the twins dropped the toffees?

Eric: I’ll look it up real quick, but I bet it was Fred.

Andrew: Yeah, I bet it was Fred.

Laura: I was going to say, because that would match up with our previous conversations about the differences between Fred and George.

Eric: Yeah, that was… we did a great episode where it was like, “How are they different?” And Fred really is the instigator. Fred also always goes too far.

Andrew: It was Fred, by the way.

Eric: Well, there you go. So yeah, he’s the one that… if there is a hard edge to the Weasley twins, and they both do ridiculous things, but it’s Fred.

Micah: Yeah. And the behavior, though, is not inconsistent with what we see from these twins later on as they start to test their product on first year students.

Eric: That’s right.

Micah: And Dudley is the initial testing ground. And honestly, for Fred, it’s like leaving the scene of the crime because he doesn’t even try and help Dudley. Is it just presumed that his tongue is going to un-swell?

Eric: Well, and that actually puts Arthur in an impossible position, right? Arthur guesses that the toffee is an Engorgement Charm, a simple Engorgement Charm term. What if he’s wrong, right? What if there’s something a little special in there? Fred and George leave Arthur completely unprepared to have to rescue and save this Muggle’s life basically, so that’s bad on them for what they do to their dad too.

Laura: Yeah. Well, and I think this is the moment that teaches them they need to have antidotes on hand, if I recall correctly. When they’re testing on first years, they also go around and pass out the antidote candy to whatever it is they’re testing. But the fact that that wasn’t even a thought here, especially considering that they were testing on a Muggle, is definitely sinister.

Eric: Well, to that point of Fred and George not sticking around, also, they are trying this on a Muggle, and Muggles work a little differently with… it’s been said in the canon that Muggles and potions, they can be poisoned, actually, trying to take a… if you’re a non-magical person taking a magic potion, it’s not just that it won’t affect you: It could be a poison. They could have unusual effects. When they try it on fellow wizards and the students at school, that’s actually fully different than trying it on Dudley, so there was an element there of extra danger that Fred and George just completely overlooked. So moving into the fifth and final offense, the actual result of the toffee is extremely harsh. And I kept… we’re a lot older now than when we first read these books, but now I read this chapter and I go, “Oh, God, what a way to go.” Your tongue growing to the length of four feet long, it’s said, coming out of your mouth. You don’t have a lot of…

Micah: Like Lickitung. That’s kind of what I imagine.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: Yeah, like Lickitung. It’s exactly like Lickitung.

Andrew: Pokémon.

Eric: Honestly, yeah.

Micah: One thing I did take a little bit of a look at is the symbolism of choking on one’s own tongue, and particularly in some Native American cultures, it represents the need to find one’s voice and be true to oneself. And I think that’s very appropriate for Dudley because I don’t think that he knows who he is, as any teenager wouldn’t at this time, but I think in particular, being true to himself, I don’t think he is. I think he’s very much influenced at this stage by his parents. And we see that change by Deathly Hallows, so just wanted to call that out.

Laura: That’s a great call-out.

Eric: I love that.

Andrew: Yeah, I was going to say, your Deathly Hallows connection there is very good. And maybe this is something that could be explored more in the TV show, more of Dudley’s hesitancy to just go with the flow with his parents, given what we know about his brief chat with Harry in Deathly Hallows.

Laura: Do we think that the Dursleys are making this worse than it needs to be?

Micah: Yes. [laughs]

Laura: I mean, it’s described as Petunia, like, throws herself on top of Dudley and she’s making him choke worse.

Eric: That’s her kid, though.

Andrew: She’s a Muggle and watching her son’s tongue explode 50 times in length.

Laura: Oh, I know. This is this is like her Joffrey death moment, right?

Eric: Oh, yes!

Laura: She’s freaking out, I understand. But the Dursleys do have a…

Eric: Overdramatic.

Laura: … tendency to overreact to things and make them worse. Again, not justifying it happening. I’m just saying they’re making it worse.

Eric: They’re in an impossible situation, though. The only person who can save Dudley is this person that they don’t trust and have been given no reason to trust because see offenses one through four.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: This man’s child has just poisoned their child,

Micah: Right.

Eric: What does that say about this man, right? And he’s too bumbling to be able to… the twins’ greatest offense was actually against their dad, like I said, because he’s got to clean this all up. It reflects negatively on his job working with Muggles, to Micah’s point earlier, but I think also the characterization of this, why it goes over our heads as a kid, it’s a fun scene. “Don’t the Dursleys suck? Yeah.” But the wording from the narrator at this moment is “Harry didn’t want to miss the fun,” as Vernon is chucking ornaments at Mr. Weasleys head and they’re shattering behind his head on the fireplace. “Harry didn’t want to miss the fun”? [laughs] That’s completely not what’s going on here. Their son is dying. Come on, now.

Laura: Yeah. Well, and this is also a trauma response for Harry, I think, right? Because this is a family of people who have abused him his entire life, so he’s taking some pleasure in watching them suffer.

Micah: Yeah, he’s like, “Hell yeah, chaos in the Dursley living room.”

[Eric laughs]

Micah: What can Harry ask for more than that, honestly? So from the perspective of a 14-year-old, I get it. But it’s also one of those situations where magic got Dudley into this situation, so magic is going to have to get him out of this situation. It’s not… and I was honestly surprised by the pig tail being removed at a regular hospital; I had always for some reason had in my head that he went to St. Mungo’s for that.

Eric: But again, the Dursleys don’t trust wizards, so even though wizards got him into this situation, they’re looking for any and all normal means…

Micah: What are they going to do?

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Odds & Ends

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Eric: All right, as we get into some little things and odds and ends, I’m reminded that I need to rescind my compliment to Goblet of Fire for not having any recap at the beginning of the book. We actually got a lot of recap. And there’s some more of it here; as Harry is packing his trunk to get ready for the Weasleys, we are reminded that some of his most prized possessions actually come from other people. His Invisibility Cloak he got from his dad, his latest broom he got from his godfather, and the Marauder’s Map he got from Fred and George. Wow, Fred and George, such nice blokes. So it’s just a good way of wrapping it all up and showing that Harry is better with the people that are around him, and I think it casts a light on this chapter of… he’s going to be with his people. We want to see Harry get to be with the kind of people that would give him these gifts because the Dursleys just ain’t that.

Micah: I will say, I do like the fact that James, Sirius, and then it’s Fred and George that are mentioned because the comparisons between them is often very similar in terms of their behavior.

Eric: Oh, that’s so good.

Micah: Although I’m not sure. Well, would James and Sirius have done what Fred and George…? Well, let’s call out Fred. I don’t know which one is more like Fred. James, probably.

Eric: James, yeah. Wow, I wasn’t expecting to draw that comparison, which specific James and Sirius… which Weasley? Yeah, I think it works. If it were Snape, they would. But if it were anyone else, they wouldn’t do the same thing.

Micah: Chloé is pointing out that Sirius almost killed Snape, so maybe he’s more like Fred. very similar in terms of their behavior.

Laura: Yeah, I was sitting here thinking the same thing, that it was maybe more of a Sirius comparison.

Eric: Yeah. I mean, the only thing holding James back would be that Lily would never talk to him again if he hurt Snape, so maybe it is Sirius. Well, it’s an interesting thought experiment. So the other big question I have about this chapter is the use of magic in Privet Drive, because it’s been determined before in these books that magic done in this Muggle home is Harry’s fault. That’s what happens with Dobby and the Hover Charm in Book 2. And so everything from blowing the fireplace out to having to fix Dudley’s tongue, the Ministry would be on them like flies on you-know-what about all of this underage magic all of a sudden happening. Because the trace is flawed, and you can’t really tell who does the magic. Anyway, the Ministry would be here in seconds, I think.

Laura: Doesn’t the Ministry have the ability to detect if someone of age is present at the time of the magic being used? Because I feel like we’ve seen other examples of magic being used at Number 4 that came from adult wizards. Dumbledore definitely uses magic at Number 4.

Eric: Well, it’s possible that’s a plot hole, too, when Dumbledore does it. Because in Book 7 during the Seven Potters, Moody tells Harry that’s why they have to take the Polyjuice Potion, because they will set off the trace and the Ministry will know where they are if they detect magic at Privet Drive.

Laura: Yeah. It is so interesting because we know that the Ministry doesn’t pick up on Dobby because they don’t consider non-human magical beings I think worth the while to have on their radar.

Andrew: Still seems like an oversight.

Eric: Well, when Harry does the Patronus Charm next book is when the whole trial and court date and all that other crap happens, so in that case it is Harry casting the spell.

Andrew: And by the way, with the context of Fantastic Beasts, the movie series, it seems all the more strange that they don’t track magic coming out of creatures. Now, I know Newt is a special case because he’s walking around with his suitcase and has a lot of creatures that he can take out, or he’s trying to meet creatures, beasts, but still. It’s like, you know they can cause trouble, so it’s good to track them just in case they do.

Micah: Yeah, and Privet Drive in and of itself is a special Muggle location. I feel like…

Andrew: Don’t tell Vernon that.

[Eric laughs]

Micah: Well, I mean, it probably has its own room at the Ministry where people are constantly monitoring what’s going on there because Harry lives there.

Andrew: [laughs] Don’t tell Vernon that!

Micah: Well, you know what? Tough. But the other thing that came to mind for me in particular, number one, Arthur is a Ministry official. So I’m sure that if a Ministry official is performing magic in a Muggle residence, it’s somewhat permissible. But also layer on, too, the fact that he works for the Misuse of Muggle Artifacts Office, so presumably he would be using magic in Muggle homes quite often. So I don’t think that it would necessarily raise too many flags.

Eric: That’s a good point. I wonder if it does have to do with that Arthur also got the Privet Drive fireplace hooked up to the Floo Network, which is not particularly legal, he says. Did that same person give a blanket “Magic may happen, we’re going to mute notifications for magic at this sector for the next hour or so”?

Andrew: Focus Mode on the iPhone.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: Well, that explains why the court date and all that doesn’t happen for Harry this book; we’ll get it next year. The question that I have… so here’s also the sticking point as far as Arthur standing up to Vernon. Despite everything that’s happened already, Arthur still demands that Vernon say goodbye to the boy. He says, “You’re not going to see him until next year,” and this is a moment where we really actually fall in love with Arthur all over again, right? He’s clearly on the wrong foot so far, but Arthur doesn’t care. He knows that the right thing to do would be to say good boy – [laughs] good boy – goodbye to your nephew.

Andrew: Goodbye and good boy. Yeah, I thought this was a really powerful moment, how Arthur is standing up to Vernon, and it almost comes off like he’s speaking out of turn just because they don’t know each other. If you try to imagine your own father saying this to somebody else… I don’t know. This is… or your own… it’s a unique situation for Harry, but it’s very forward. It’s not something I think you would see coming. And I love Harry’s thought process during this moment, too, just being like, “You know what, it’s fine. I don’t care. Let’s just get out of here. This has already been enough of a moment.” Harry is not looking for that because he also doesn’t need that from Vernon.

Eric: Yeah, he’s selling himself short on that. He’s like, “I don’t expect them to ever do the right thing around me.” He’s like, “Let’s move on; you’re fighting a losing battle.” If the Dursleys were to say “None of your business,” they’d kind of be right, to Arthur, but they don’t know that he’s also the surrogate father that Harry never had. I think it’s a shame that Arthur does never get to actually learn about electricity. He’s excited about the plugs. [laughs] He never would have… he never got to learn how any of it works. So I want to ask…

Andrew: Well, Harry could tell him.

Eric: That’s true.

Andrew: I mean, he’s been living there. He could fill him in if he wanted to.

Eric: Yeah. But if things had gone a little better, which we’re going to talk about in a minute, what about the Dursleys’ appliances, electronics, do we think Arthur would have really liked the most?

Laura: I think he’d be super interested in how cable television works, right? So he would understand the apparatus and how it connects to an electrical outlet to get power, “But how are you getting all these programs on here? How is this transmitted?”

Andrew: “And pictures? Where’s it coming from?”

Eric: Arthur Weasley, couch potato in the making.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: It’s also an interesting question because you have to assume the Dursleys’ home isn’t particularly exciting. With peace and love I say to my grandparents, their house is boring.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: There’s a television. There’s a phone. There’s not much else going on. They have an electric fireplace, too, by the way. I don’t think it’s because somebody tried to come through the fireplace via the Floo Network, but…

Eric: [laughs] It is a perfect comparison. Your grandparents’ house growing up is the Dursleys’ house in these books. Yeah, there’s electric, but there’s nothing else.

Andrew: [laughs] Right? So I think of the television that my grandfather has up way too loud at his old age, but he can’t hear. And then I’m thinking maybe the phone. If Dudley hadn’t thrown the PlayStation out the window, then maybe he’d be interested in the PlayStation and Mega-Mutilation 3, anything else electronic. But again, I just don’t think they have much electronic in the house, or cool.

Laura: I’ll say, as a kid, I loved going to my grandparents’ house. [laughs] For me, it was always really fun.

Andrew: Oh yeah, don’t get me wrong…

Eric: I mean, it was a chill time, and it got good natural light. I’ll say that.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: Sunlight was very much the highlight of my grandparents’ house visits, actually.

Micah: Wow.

Andrew: I’m not saying I don’t like my grandparents’ house. I’m just saying it’s the Dursleys’ house.

Laura: Yeah, I understand what you’re saying.

Micah: I think if Arthur had shown up in the “right way,” I could see him being fascinated with the doorbell and just standing there pushing it constantly.

Eric and Laura: Aww.

Andrew: That could be cool, yeah.

Eric: All right, it’s time for “What if?”

[“What if?” sound effect plays]

Eric: I said at the start of our list of offenses segment that it should have been Molly and Arthur who show up, so I’m asking the question now, what if? What if only Molly and Arthur Weasley showed up To take Harry back to the Burrow? So you have his surrogate parents and his guardians meeting. Would it have improved relations between the two? Would they have been okay and maybe improved… been able to see each other in the future in an amicable way?

Andrew: Besties coming over for Poker Night. [laughs] Wouldn’t that have been nice?

Eric: Yeah, different, separate and different days?

Micah: I feel like, because we got Arthur to show up, there was a lot of interaction between him and Vernon. We don’t see really any interaction between Arthur and Petunia. She’s very much hiding behind Vernon, and then of course, once Dudley has his tongue enlarged, she’s focused totally on him. I think it’d be interesting to see what kind of dynamic would have existed between Molly and Petunia. I wonder if you would have got the “Not my Harry, you bitch” earlier on in the stories…

[Everyone laughs]

Micah: … that we get in Deathly Hallows, but I feel like she could have given it to Petunia for the way Harry has been treated.

Laura: She would’ve.

Eric: I love this idea of Molly as a more volatile Arthur. Just very worse, very, very much worse. The forcing Vernon to say goodbye to the boy, Molly would have made them hug or some bullshit. It just would have been awful.

Micah: I wonder if she would have brought knitted sweaters for them as a gift. [laughs]

Eric: Aww. Wait, wait, there’s an example where she could show up. Yeah, a gift. What a great idea that I think Molly might be capable of thinking about, of actually thinking of and bringing up. If they had showed up on time, if they didn’t have to blast the fireplace in to do it, I think there was a potential there for the two to get along. A little friction, sure, sure, but I think that they’re both adults. It’s not that Molly and Arthur are criminally unlikable by Muggles. Maybe these Muggles, but I think Molly and Arthur are generally good people. It’s their kids you’ve got to worry about, Marty. Their kids.

Andrew: [laughs] I would’ve just preferred Molly and Arthur knocking on the front door, ringing the doorbell once, maybe twice because that would have tickled Arthur…

Laura: I don’t think there’s any hope here, honestly. I think Vernon would have been ticked off if they showed up on the doorstep ringing the doorbell because of how they looked, right?

Eric: Oh, right.

Laura: There was no way that the Weasleys could have arrived here and met Vernon and Petunia’s standards because Vernon and Petunia are already predisposed to hate them on the basis of them being wizards, so I think there was nothing they could have done right.

Andrew: What if they went to Target ahead of time and bought some average Muggle clothes?

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Eric: Oh, Target!

Laura: Would they know how to wear them?

Andrew: [laughs] What?

Laura: I mean, think about some of the examples we hear about wizards trying to don Muggle attire for the first time. We see it at the Quidditch World Cup, a gentleman wearing the the long nightgown, which there’s nothing wrong with it, but it’s very clear that he’s very enamored with this idea. And he talks about liking a “healthy breeze ’round his privates.” There’s just a degree to which I think the Weasleys do not know enough about Muggles to be able to meet the Dursleys’ standards.

Andrew: Laura, I just had an idea for you. So on our other podcast Millennial, you and Pam picked a wardrobe for me because I hate shopping. You can go wherever you want online, ASOS, H&M, whatever, and find outfits for Arthur and Molly! Muggle outfits.

Laura: That’s a good idea! Oh man. Maybe that’s a bonus we can do before the end of the year.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: That’s a hell of a cool, fun idea.

Laura: Like, styling the Weasleys in Muggle clothes. [laughs]

Eric: Oh my God. Well, I will bring up that in this chapter – while we’re on the subject of fashion – Vernon tells Harry, “I’ve seen what you people wear.” He’s referring to the first chapter of the first book of Harry Potter, a throwback to Sorcerer’s Stone, when he’s just going to work the day after Voldemort’s fall, so November 1 of ’80, and he is clearly so scarred by this little man in a cloak that comes up to him and says, “Oh, Muggles like you should be happy, da-da-da…” that Vernon 13 years later is is still like, “That man, his fashion sucked,” to Harry. [laughs] “You people don’t dress properly.” So you’re right, I think, Laura. Although we don’t assign winners in “What if?”, I completely agree that it might just be an impossible situation and that they never could get along.

Laura: Yeah, the Dursleys just aren’t reachable.

Micah: And I think that’s it, right, Laura, to the point that you raised earlier. There’s nothing that Arthur can do that is going to please the Dursleys. It’s just a no-win situation. If things had gone differently, we would just be having a different conversation about how the Dursleys are just so prejudiced and biased against the wizarding world. So one odd and end I just wanted to bring up – because I know we talked about it in the previous chapter and we talked about it in this discussion with Dudley and his addiction to sweets – in particular, there’s some fat-shaming going on as it relates to Vernon, because he is referenced as being an enraged hippo at one point in this chapter. I think it’s when the ornaments are starting to fly. But I mean, that’s a pretty strong comparison on the part of the author to reference Vernon as a hippo.

Laura: Yeah, and we see this a lot with the Dursleys in this book. I mean, last episode, the chapters we were talking about referred to Dudley as being roughly the size and shape of the of a baby killer whale. There’s that. And then in this chapter, there’s lots of descriptions of Dudley clutching his fat bottom to try and shield it from a potential round two of the pig tail…

Micah: And the pig itself is a reference.

Laura: Yeah, right. 100%. There’s also this moment where Dudley tries to hide behind Vernon but even Vernon is not large enough to completely shield Dudley from view, so yeah, there’s a lot of this happening in the chapter. And again, thinking about it in the context of the time, I remember reading this and just feeling like the whole chapter was so comical. And it is really interesting to think about it in the context of current days and also through the lens of an adult, because this is never something that I think an adult would think was funny.

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MVP of the Week

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Andrew: And now it’s time for MVP of the week.

[MVP of the Week music plays]

Andrew: And you know what? I didn’t think I’d be saying this ever: I’m going to give it to Dudley because he’s taking a lot of crap unfairly. And you know what? He deserves a treat and a sweet.

Eric: [laughs] I’m going to give it to the implied Reparo charm that Arthur needs to use in overdrive to fix the mess he and his family have made and repair Muggle relations.

Laura: Well, speaking of that, I’m going to give mine to Arthur for sticking up for Harry and really observing how abnormal and childish and rude it is for his adult caretakers to not wish him a happy school year.

Micah: And I’m going to give it to the Dursleys’ living room because it just didn’t sign up for this.

[Everyone laughs]

[MVP of the Week music ends]

Andrew: That might be my favorite one ever. If you have any feedback about today’s discussion, you can contact us by emailing or sending a voice memo recorded on your phone to MuggleCast@gmail.com, or you can use our phone number, which is 1-920-3-MUGGLE. That’s 1-920-368-4453. That said, we would prefer the voice memos because they are of higher clarity. And next week will be our Quizzitch Live episode. Wow, already. It’s going to be in place of a normal episode, and you can test your skills as they pertain to OWLs and Halloween. And then the following week, bring your pink cardigans and cozy up – [laughs] who wrote this? – to an all girls MuggleCast, and then regular Chapter by Chapter segments return November 14 at our new Thursday night time slot, November 9 on NBC! TGIT.

Eric: Wow. That’s 9, 8 Central.

Andrew: [sings] On NBC.

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Quizzitch

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Andrew: And now it’s time for Quizzitch.

[Quizzitch music plays]

Eric: Last week’s question, “What does Arthur Weasley ask Dudley Dursley?” And the correct answer is, “Are you having a nice holiday, Dudley? And how is your summer?” Correct answers were submitted – here we go – by Dumbledorky porky dorks; Hi to my Ravenclaw husband; Andrew’s frustration at increasingly unhinged names…

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: … Justice for Winky; I am actually a Gryffindor, roar; Some terrific radiant humble Dudley; Mega-Mutilation Parts 1 and 2…

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Eric: … Eric, I am definitely not your father; Oh great master of the universe, bestow upon me Quizzitch answers; I think of parrots; A flimsy substandard cauldron bottom and a suspicious looking rug; Laura, the master of the universe has gone to the side of the trash pandas…

[Laura laughs]

Eric: … Percy accidentally Floo Powdering to Number 4 Private Drive in Ohio; and – three more – Andrew the undercover Harry Potter Store worker hacker; Ravenkell; and Julia the 36-year-old. Shout-out to being 36. Okay.

Laura: Yeah, keep ’em coming, y’all. I love it. [laughs]

Micah: Love it, yeah.

Eric: Yeah, yeah. Here is next week’s question.

[Quizzitch music plays]

Eric: In honor of this past chapter, “Back to the Burrow,” how many times did Harry physically visit the Burrow during the seven-book Harry Potter series? Count them up.

[Quizzitch music ends]

Micah: You’ve got three weeks for this one.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Eric: It’s true. If you want to do a reread of the seven Harry Potter books, go ahead. Submit your answer to us on the Quizzitch form on the MuggleCast website MuggleCast.com/Quizzitch, or click on “Quizzitch” from the top of the main nav.

Andrew: Do you enjoy MuggleCast? Do you think other Muggles would too? Tell a friend about the show. We would also appreciate if you left us a review in your favorite podcast app. Also, don’t forget we couldn’t do this show without your support on Patreon and through Apple Podcasts. Visit Patreon.com to support the show financially and you’ll receive early access to the show, ad-free episodes, bonus episodes, yearly physical gifts, and so much more. Whether you pledge through Patreon or Apple Podcasts, we do have free trials and annual subscriptions available. And one more reminder, Eric just mentioned it: Visit MuggleCast.com for transcripts, social media links, our full episode archive, our favorite episodes, the Quizzitch form, and to contact us. Thanks, everybody, for listening. I’m Andrew.

Eric: I’m Eric.

Micah: I’m Micah.

Laura: And I’m Laura.

Andrew: Bye, everybody!

Eric, Laura, and Micah: Bye.

 

MuggleCast 631 Transcript

 

Transcript for MuggleCast Episode #631, Mmmm, Grapefruit and Floor Cake (GOF Chapters 2 & 3, The Scar and The Invitation)

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Show Intro

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[Show music plays]

Andrew: Welcome to MuggleCast, your weekly ride into the wizarding world fandom. I’m Andrew.

Eric Scull: I’m Eric.

Micah Tannenbaum: I’m Micah.

Laura Tee: And I’m Laura.

Andrew: And this week, grab your painkillers and your postage stamps, because this week we’re talking about Goblet of Fire Chapters 2 and 3, “The Scar” and “The Invitation.” Yes, two chapters this week, because Chapter 2 is kind of just a recap chapter. We’ll have thoughts on that coming up. But first, a couple of announcements. One of them pretty big and very new. Laura, would you like to share some very cool news with our audience?

Laura: Yeah, really excited to chat about this. So we’re making history here at the show in the next week or so.

Andrew: “Herstory,” you could say.

Laura: [laughs] Right, “herstory.” So in the next couple of weeks, we’re going to be working on some show content, as well as some content for our Patreon, that is a girls’ takeover. So this is going to be a first for the show, an episode with a panel of all women. So it’ll be myself, Chloé, who is our social media manager, and friends of the pod Pam from over at Millennial, and Meg, who has also been a contributor to MuggleCast, just both by being on the show but also by helping us with our transcripts, as Eric plugged last week. We’re super excited to do this because we’re going to be able to look at female relationships in Harry Potter as well as the different types of female representation that you see or maybe don’t see in Harry Potter. And I’m so excited for us to be able to talk about this through the lenses of having grown up being young girls starting out reading Harry Potter, and growing up with the series. So I think similar to how we on this panel have had new revelations as we’ve gotten older, I think that we’re going to be able to put a really unique lens on our interpretation. Patrons are going to be able to join the girls twice. So we will be recording the girls’ takeover episode on Thursday, October 19 at 6:30 p.m. Eastern time. So if you’re a patron, you would be able to join us for that livestream. That episode will later be released on Tuesday, November 7. However, patrons get to join us a second time for a sleepover party on Patreon Saturday, October 21 at 8:00 p.m. Eastern time. This will replace the Slug Club hangout for the month, but this is a really fun one because the sleepover is open to all $5 patrons and up, so if you’re Dumbledore’s Army and up, you are invited. It’s definitely slumber party-themed, so wear your pajamas, bring those PJs, and bring your favorite beverage of choice. Look forward to that. I am stoked. Want to be sure to give a plug to Chloé here; This was really her idea. And we’re so fortunate to be able to have Pam and Meg joining us because they are members of the MuggleCast family and it’s just great to get us together as a panel.

Eric: What I’m excited about is that unlike Fantastic Beasts: The Crimes of Grindelwald, this all-girls MuggleCast episode will likely pass the Bechdel Test.

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: Yes! I think it will. Actually, maybe that’s a goal we can set, at least for a timed portion of the episode.

Eric: Well, it’s women talking about women. That sounds awesome. It sounds fantastic.

Laura: I know, I agree. I’m not going to sit here and say that a male character is not going to come up in the scope of the conversation, but the focus definitely passes the Bechdel Test. You’re right, Eric.

Micah: Where I thought, Eric, you were going, is [laughs] just for me, what I love about it is I don’t have to record that week.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: You get a week off! This is fantastic.

Micah:: No, but it’s going to be great.

Eric: Laura, can non-girls attend the sleepover party?

Laura: Yes! Everyone’s invited.

Eric: Okay, that’s all patrons. But the girls’ MuggleCast, we can’t show up.

Andrew: By design. I mean, you can listen live if you want.

Laura: Yeah, you can be in the audience if you want. You’re welcome to be in the audience and sound off in the Discord.

Eric: Nice. I’m excited for it. It’s going to be great.

Andrew: Yeah. So again, that’ll be out for everybody Tuesday, November 7. And we’ll have more posts about that coming on social media. Speaking of special episodes of the show, Micah, we’ve got another special event coming up, right?

Micah: Yeah, we just keep keep on hitting everybody with these fun things that we’re doing. So Quizzitch Live is going to be making its return on October 28, and given it’s so close to Halloween, we’re going to do a couple of segments that are focused on Halloween. So we’re going to do wizarding world candy, and we’re going to do some questions on James and Lily Potter, just given the significance of Halloween in their lives, but the main crux of Quizzitch this time around is going to be OWLs edition, so make sure specifically that you study up on your Charms, Potions, Defense Against the Dark Arts, and Transfiguration. And thank you in advance to Nicole H., who provided these questions for us; it cut down on a lot of the work that we have to do in advance. But we’re really looking forward to it. This is something I know we’ve talked about. We popularized it during the pandemic, but it’s something that we know the listeners have really gotten to love. And we’re excited to bring it back. And of course, there will be prizes.

Eric: We always get a great turnout to these things. And also worth mentioning, all the previous Quizzitch Lives are on YouTube. You can still enjoy all of the work that went into our previous live trivia events in preparation for this month.

Andrew: Including a Halloween one. There’s a Halloween one up there, so this is a second Halloween Quizzitch. And they’re a lot of fun for us to run as well, so we’re all looking forward to that. And that’ll be out for everybody on October 31. But like Micah said, the event itself will be October 28, and more details to come there as well. And lastly, a little show announcement. This is especially for patrons: MuggleCast live recordings are going to be moving to Thursdays beginning November 9 at 8:00 p.m. Eastern. That will be our new time, Thursdays 8:00 p.m. Eastern. Episodes will still be out at the normal time the following week, but we’re moving off the weekends. We’re moving to prime time; we’re going to be competing against Friends on NBC and Seinfeld and whatever the…

Eric: The Bachelor.

Micah: Thursday night football, bro.

Andrew: Thursday night football! But yeah, just a little update there for patrons. And a reminder real quick: Laura mentioned it, Eric, but we now have transcripts rockin’ and rollin’ on the site, right?

Eric: Yeah, we announced them last week, but already, the most recent four episodes of MuggleCast all have transcripts that are published, if people are looking for it. Reason I mention this, too, is because we got some feedback on our Goblet of Fire commentary episode; happened to see a message come in going, “There’s so much silence between when you guys talk, how am I supposed to listen to this?” And of course, we had to listen. The commentary goes along with the movie; you can’t edit that to be shorter pauses or it won’t align with the movie. So I say to that person, read the transcript. It’s now online.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: If you’re interested. And everyone else who’s never, ever complained about that, awesome. We love you more.

Andrew: Yeah, the commentary tracks are very much intended to be paired with the movie. We definitely acknowledge that you can’t really listen to it without the movie. But that’s why we do these few and far between.

Eric: Yeah, well, that said, I thought that this particular commentary track was a loopy fun good time and is worth a read.

Andrew: Oof, yeah, that gin got to me pretty quick, I will say.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Eric: It was the perfect intro to get into the Goblet of Fire chats that we are now having.

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Chapter by Chapter: Seven-Word Summary

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Andrew: Oh, and what a beautiful transition. So this week we’re discussing Chapters 2 and 3 of Goblet of Fire, “The Scar” and “The Invitation.” And we are going to do two seven-word summaries this week, and we’re going to go back to one of Micah’s ideas from a few months ago. It’ll just be Eric and I doing this seven-word summary, and then Micah and Laura will take the next chapter. So you ready for this teamwork, Eric?

Eric: Yes.

[Seven-Word Summary music plays]

Andrew: Dumbledore…

Eric: … sometimes…

Andrew: … is…

Eric: … on…

Andrew: [laughs] … the…

Eric: … beach…

Andrew: [laughs] … relaxing.

[Seven-Word Summary music ends]

Andrew: Wow. Okay, so… good. I have no further comment. Good. [laughs]

Eric: All right. We did it. We summarized this chapter.

Micah: Great job, guys.

---

Chapter by Chapter: Main Discussion

---

Andrew: Yes, I guess you’re right, Eric. Not much happens in this chapter. This is a recap chapter. It is a chapter, Eric, that if you had made it to – last week you were talking about how you read Chapter 1 of Goblet of Fire…

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: … and you hadn’t read any other Harry Potter books and you were like, “What is this? I’m out.” If you had gotten to this chapter, maybe you would have continued reading the book. Do you think that’s fair to say?

Eric: It’s really hard to say because this chapter then… where we were like, “Oh, thank God, there’s no recap in this book” – this is just recap. And the writing is still a little hokey; Harry is picturing his friends in his head, what they would say to his thing, and downplaying his own misery and suffering. And I don’t know, it’s really hard to say because this is also not your standard “Action happens” chapter. Maybe when I was in seventh grade, I wanted an “Action happens” chapter. So this was still not that. And it’s possible that I should just say, “You know what, it wasn’t for me in the year 2000. It wouldn’t be until 2001 that I would like Harry Potter.”

Andrew: Micah, I know you feel like this chapter is in line with something we’ve heard over the years.

Micah: A bit. We’ve heard over the years that the author felt very rushed, in terms of writing Goblet of Fire. And in a chapter like this, I thought that that came through maybe the first time or the second, or before even learning this, right? Before we ever even heard that she felt rushed writing Goblet of Fire. Maybe you just page through it; it’s a quick recap chapter. But with that in the back of our minds, as we move through this book it’ll be interesting to note moments where maybe the plot feels a little bit rushed, or there’s chapters that just… 2 and 3 could really have been combined together into one chapter. There was no reason to have these as being two separate chapters. I know I called it a nothing burger of a chapter.

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: But it really is. If you’re a Harry Potter fan that has read the first three books, it’s nice to get a little bit of a refresher, but it doesn’t move the needle for you really at all.

Eric: It’s not an “Action happens” chapter.

Laura: It also feels very out-of-step with the pacing of the chapter that came before it. I had forgotten about this, but reading this chapter immediately after “The Riddle House” feels so jarring. Like, we have this really great mystery being set up, it’s macabre, and there’s little breadcrumbs being dropped throughout, and you’re trying to figure out what everything means. And then it’s like, “Previously on Harry Potter…”

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Eric: And yet, it is the obligatory… if the book itself didn’t have these little things about “Voldemort killed Harry’s parents” and “Sirius Black was his godfather,” you would be lost, by the wayside, right? As a non-recurring… saying people made it past the first chapter, which I did not. You do need these little breadcrumbs, right, to understand the overall story?

Micah: You do. I do like what Laura is saying, though, because right in the first chapter of Goblet of Fire, you get the payoff from the ending of Prisoner of Azkaban, which is Pettigrew and Voldemort together, master and servant reunited, and then it just completely drops off and the action isn’t there. But one of the things I did, I went to an interview that the author did shortly after Goblet of Fire was released, and there are some interesting quotes here I thought we could talk about. She says, “The first three books, my plan never failed me. But I should have put that plot under a microscope. I wrote what I thought was half the book, and ‘Ack!’ Huge gaping hole in the middle of the plot.” She’s referring to Goblet of Fire. “I missed my deadline by two months. And the whole profile of the books got so much higher since the third book; there was an edge of external pressure.” Now, there’s also the movies to consider here that are in development, and how fast that she is writing in comparison to the movies being filmed and ultimately released. She had to keep up with that.

Andrew: Well, and I think, also, her publishers were probably pushing her as well. And I seem to recall that after this book, she started to work on her own timeline. She was like, “I need to work on my own schedule; when it’s done, it’s done.” And that’s why we ended up seeing a three-year wait between 4 and 5.

Eric: Yeah, and I mean, if you think about it, even just the fact that the first three Harry Potter books came out a year from each other, and the fourth book did the same… the fourth book is twice as long page count-wise. That shows you. That’s everything you ever need to know about how stressful this must have been. And yet, the book still turns out really, really, really good. She was still, I think, at her peak capacity for world building, plot building, character threading… it’s all just really good stuff.

Andrew: Also, in doing research for starting Chapter by Chapter of this book, I read that she also decided on the title very late. Do y’all remember that? Very late.

Laura: I do remember.

Micah: Wasn’t it The Doomspell Tournament?

Andrew: And then she changed it to Goblet of Fire. That speaks to the point that we’re making here that there was only a year in between these, in between 3 and 4, and how quick the turnaround was. Do you want to read this other quote too?

Micah: Yeah, one other quote that came from this interview. This is a more indirect reference to the plot hole that was mentioned in the previous quote. She says that, “I had to pull a character. There you go: ‘the Phantom character of Harry Potter.’ She was a Weasley cousin (related to Ron Weasley, Harry’s best friend). She served the same function that Rita Skeeter (a sleazy investigative journalist) now serves. Rita was always going to be in the book, but I built her up because I needed a kind of conduit for information outside of the school. Originally, this girl fulfilled this purpose.”

Andrew: That would have been fun. A Weasley cousin like funneling information in and out of Hogwarts, it sounds like.

Laura: And am I remembering this correctly that this Weasley cousin was supposed to have been a Slytherin?

Eric: I don’t remember this.

Micah: It seems familiar.

Laura: Yeah, I feel like I remember this being the case, which would have fit in really well with how Slytherins are being characterized at this point in time of writing these books.

Andrew: Oh, yeah.

Laura: But it would have also been an interesting take to see a Slytherin Weasley.

Andrew: Well, turning back to the chapter now, it opens with Harry trying to recall what he had seen in his dream and his scar hurting. And as we said last episode, this was the first time he actually has a direct line of communication with Voldemort. It’s definitely concerning. And we’ll get into that in a second, in terms of how Harry handles it from here, but Laura, I think you wanted to talk about the point of view. Where was that connection exactly? What was it offering him?

Laura: Yeah, so I thought that the point of view here is interesting because Harry is not seeing it from Voldemort’s point of view. He’s seeing it as an observer, which we know doesn’t quite fit with how their mind connection works. We see later on in the series that Harry will see something from Nagini’s point of view. There was at least once where he saw things from Voldemort’s point of view, and he even distinctly remembered the feeling of uttering that cold, conniving laugh. But here, he’s like a fly on the wall. So I was wondering if this was just a case of this particular plot point not being fully fleshed out yet.

Micah: Like the author was rushed?

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: Yeah, like the author was rushed. Or also just that the Horcrux mind connection between the two of them just wasn’t fully fleshed out yet. That had not been fully conceived of yet. But you had an interesting headcanon, Micah.

Micah: Well, you mentioned Nagini and how Harry sees things through her perspective, right? Probably the best example is in Order of the Phoenix when he tells Dumbledore, “No, I was the snake attacking Arthur Weasley.” And I was curious if perhaps, as you mentioned the last episode, Laura, Nagini is a narc in this particular moment.

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Micah: She could just be hanging out on the landing behind Frank Bryce, waiting for her moment to slither into the room. Could Harry be seeing this through her perspective, very early on, and he just doesn’t know it? And I think it’s a mix of what we’ve all been talking about. I don’t think the Horcrux connection has been fully fleshed out; we see it obviously in Order of the Phoenix. But yeah, I thought that could have been a cool theory to throw out there.

Eric: I love it.

Laura: Yeah, I love that. Honestly, it’s ambiguous where his point of view is coming from, enough that I think we can declare canon, honestly. I love this.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Andrew: On what, all of it?

Laura: Yeah, on Harry seeing this from Nagini’s point of view, even though it’s…

Andrew: “It’s true, all of it.”

Eric: Well, it talks about… what, the Dark Side? The Force? It’s all true.

[“I declare canon!” sound effect plays with thunder]

Eric: Ooh, sounds like Chicago out there.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: The example given in the book is that Harry has seen what Voldemort currently looks like, and that’s not possible if the dream is coming through Voldemort’s eyes the way that Harry later experiences Death Eater meetings between Voldemort and the group.

Laura: Right.

Eric: So Nagini being able to see Wormtail and Voldemort and the Muggle… the Nagini perspective is my favorite headcanon now.

Laura: Yeah, same.

Eric: Even though he is not conscious of being in a body of a snake like he is later, where he feels moving around. So the Horcrux connection is either just getting started, and is weak enough that Harry doesn’t feel snaky… I think that that’s all very reasonable. And then the other aspect is the last chapter has a lot of backstory, too, of the war and Little Hangleton and Great Hangleton, and it’s not like Harry is getting that history lesson in his dream. Harry’s dream probably picked up closer to the time when Frank arrives inside the Riddle House.

Andrew: Another line we wanted to call out here. And again, this is a recap chapter. This line… I think we all read this and thought the same thing. The line goes, “Harry was used to bizarre accidents and injuries; they were unavoidable if you attended Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry,” basically admitting, midway through the series, the whole school is a what?

[“It’s starting to sound like a security nightmare!” sound effect plays with sirens]

Laura: This story is being told by a third-person omniscient narrator, right? Who has access to all of Harry’s thoughts and feelings. But it’s very clear that there are points where the author’s perspective comes through, and I think we see that in the next chapter, especially around some of the comments made about Dudley, where it’s like, “Okay, so not only does Harry know this, but the author is acknowledging it too.” Security nightmare.

Andrew: So then Harry starts wondering how Dumbledore, Ron, and Hermione would react to being informed that his scar was hurting. And he does think that Hermione and Ron would be concerned. And while he does suspect that Dumbledore is on a beach over the summer holidays, he doesn’t think about how Albus would actually respond to the news that his scar was hurting. So I’m wondering… and we’re dropping all the sound effects this morning.

[“What if?” sound effect plays]

Andrew: What if Harry did tell Dumbledore that his scar was hurting? How would Albus have responded? And I hope that he would have come home from the beach and maybe started teaching him Occlumency… or maybe not because I also think that Dumbledore – I think we’ve discussed on the show – Dumbledore likes that open connection to an extent, so he can see what the Dark side is up to.

Eric: I definitely think that if Harry had told Dumbledore anything about his dream or the fact that his scar hurt, it would have put Dumbledore on slightly better footing to anticipate the year ahead. Dumbledore is often on pretty good footing, it’s true, in regards to what Voldemort is up to and what Voldemort is doing, but I think it would have resulted in at least a follow-up conversation between Dumbledore and Harry. Maybe at start of term – maybe he wouldn’t have shown up on Privet Drive that night to ask him follow-up questions – but I think that Dumbledore really would have wanted to know what Voldemort was talking about in Harry’s dream. And I think you’re right, Andrew, to bring up Occlumency. I think even though he’s trying to foster that connection and wants to leave it open a little bit, there might be certain little things that he would help Harry with in case it happened again, or he would try and prompt them to happen again. He would maybe try and increase that connection, so that he could essentially do what he does at the end of the book, bring back the Order of the Phoenix, prepare for softening Fudge’s position on Voldemort coming back. If Harry even lets the word slip, like “Bertha Jorkins,” then Dumbledore immediately knows more than Fudge about what happened to her and can begin to really unravel the plot. So I think Harry should have told Dumbledore.

Andrew: And Dumbledore does say later in the series that he knew there was a connection between Harry and Voldemort as early as Harry’s first year at Hogwarts, and he did suspect a connection by the end of Chamber of Secrets. He should already be concerned. And I guess he would be further concerned if he heard about what was happening here. At least give Harry some lessons in pain management or something like that so he doesn’t have to deal with the headaches.

[Micah laughs]

Laura: Similar to what Eric said about Dumbledore being on better footing for handling the events of the year, I just think that if Dumbledore knew about this and knew about Harry’s dream, he might have foreseen what would come out of the Goblet of Fire. He might have put two and two together there.

Micah: Definitely. And the thing with Harry when he wakes up is that he goes through what most of us go through in that he doesn’t remember everything, right? And Eric, I don’t know if this is what you were getting at. Is there some kind of magic that can be utilized to show the full scope of the dream? Especially if he’s reaching out to somebody like Dumbledore, whose magical ability is… he can do pretty much anything. And this is also the first time Harry has gone through something like this, right? So he’s probably pretty scared. I don’t know. I felt for him. I feel like we’ve all been in that situation where we experience something and then we’re not really sure if we should tell anybody, and then if we should, who do we tell, right? Is it our friends? Is it our parents? Is it somebody else who can help us out?

Andrew: Like a family member, maybe!

Eric: “Oh, wait! I have a new Godfather!”

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Eric: But yeah, I’ll say that Harry’s self doubt… you’re exactly right, Micah, we’ve all gone through it. But ultimately, it’s a new way of seeing how the scar works. Because Harry is like, “The last time my scar hurt, Voldemort was right in front of me. He couldn’t be right in front of me now, could he?” And it’s like, “No, listener, no, reader, he couldn’t be, but he was pretty much right in front of you Horcrux-wise.” The connection is now so intimate that from thousands of miles away, he can be in your head. It’s really fascinating. The scar is working, as it always has, to warn Harry or keep him safe in a way. And it goes back to what Dumbledore said in Chapter 1 of Book 1: “Scars can be useful.” We’re getting a new version, a new understanding, about what Harry’s scar is for and what it does.

Andrew: And also, because Harry is struggling to remember the details, telling Dumbledore is is a bit risky. Why waste Vacation Dumbledore’s time with a dream you barely even remember?

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Micah: He’s having a good time. Dumbledore was nice enough to send us a photo for when he traveled back in Harry’s fourth year, and he is just living his best life. He looks like he’s out at a beach club. He’s indulging in a little bit of… I don’t know if we can say that on the show. But he’s cleansing his mind.

Eric: Huh.

Andrew: Micah recently found the AI image tools and he’s been having a lot of fun recently. So I alluded to this a couple minutes ago: Harry wishes he had a family member to tell about the dream and realizes he should reach out to his new BFF godfather Sirius about his scar hurting, and he sends out the letter in hopes of it finding Sirius in whatever seemingly tropical location he might be in because the birds that were delivering letters from Sirius were tropical of nature. We won’t end up getting a reply from Sirius until a couple of chapters later, but when we do eventually hear back from him, we learn that Sirius is concerned about the scar hurting, because it aligns with other strange things going on, and he’s heading north immediately to deal with the sitch. And this is without him knowing about the dream Harry had; remember in this chapter, Harry hesitates from telling him the details, just that his scar was hurting. So if Sirius heard all the details, that could have changed a lot of things, too, in terms of how the next few chapters played out.

Eric: This really speaks to Sirius’s need to be useful. He sees an opportunity here to… yes, he’s running from the law, yes, it’s a big deal that he doesn’t get caught, and self preservation and all that nonsense, but as soon as there’s an opportunity for Harry to be saved by him or given more info or just… he puts himself a little bit at risk by going back up north where there’s more wizards looking for him, and he does it to save or potentially help Harry with his situation. I just think that’s good godfather material.

Micah: And can we talk about the tropical birds for a second?

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Micah: Just because I wonder…

Eric: Why, do you have more AI art?

Micah: Well, that’s another one we could work on after the show. But I was thinking, part of this is fun, right? Sirius is a fun character. He would do something like this just to make Harry smile. But part of me also wonders if it’s to annoy the Dursleys should they ever find out about it, right? Like, what in the world would a tropical bird be doing in Little Whinging? [laughs]

Andrew: Yeah, that’s true.

Micah: I don’t know. I found that to be a very fun moment.

Andrew: And very large, too, at least in the illustrated edition here. I’m holding it up now for the camera; you can see a very large tropical bird. And the Dursleys would not like that either.

Eric: The book says it can barely fit through the window. And I’m like, “What kind of tropical bird is this?”

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Micah: Like a toucan?

Laura: Yeah, the description was so vague. I distinctly remember reading this as a kid, and even to this day, the imagery I see is like, Toucan Sam [laughs] flying into Harry’s bedroom.

Andrew: Yeah, that’s basically what it’s looking like in the illustrated edition.

Eric: Or a pelican. [makes a pelican noise]

Andrew: And then last thing here, this is minor, but in his letter to Sirius Harry says Dudley could no longer play Mega-Mutilation Part 3 on PlayStation. Now, that’s a real console, of course, but that’s not a real game. J.K. Rowling has a tendency to be really lazy sometimes with naming. Mega-Mutilation? Sometimes she really rushes. And I did, of course, Google Mega-Mutilation, and…

Eric: [laughs] I wonder what your results were. Was safe search turned on?

Andrew: It was just Reddit threads saying, “Hey, is that a real game?” [laughs] Actually, the first one was a Reddit thread that says, “Mega-Mutilation Part 3? Really?”

Laura: I feel like it’s probably referencing fighting games, thinking about all the fighting games that were popular when we were kids. Like Street Fighter, I think. Oh, yeah, Kyle on the Discord is calling it out; Mortal Kombat would be maybe a closer connection. I think this is probably riffing off of that and also meant as a commentary about Dudley because of course he would want to play a game where he got to kill lots and lots of innocent bystanders. [laughs]

Micah: That’s where I was going. Exactly.

Andrew: I was also thinking that Harry was just making up a title, like he didn’t even know what game he was playing.

[Micah laughs]

Laura: Right.

Andrew: Because he doesn’t… he just knows it’s a PlayStation, and Dudley wants to beat people up, like you two are saying. So, Mega-Mutilation Part 3. Kyle in our Discord is also bringing up: This is also one of the famous time errors in the series because the PlayStation wasn’t out in Europe yet in the time that this book was set, only in Japan. So he says, “You have to assume Vernon imported it for him,” which does sound like something Vernon would do for his dear boy, his dear only child. All right, well, that is the chapter and we’ll get to Chapter 3 in a moment.

Micah: [laughs] What a riveting chapter that was.

Andrew: We still had a good discussion about it.

Micah: We did.

Andrew: And you know what? I’m in the mood to feel cozy after a nice cozy chapter like that. Oh, and wouldn’t you know it?

---

[MeUndies ad break]

---

Micah: You know who could use some MeUndies?

Andrew: Who?

Micah: Vernon Dursley.

Andrew: [laughs] With a fun avocado toast print on them. I can see it now.

Micah: Grapefruit.

Andrew: Grapefruit? Sure.

Laura: Yeah, that’s his breakfast of… well, not choice, but the breakfast that he is given now.

---

Chapter by Chapter: Seven-Word Summary

---

Andrew: Okay, so Micah, Laura, you ready for your seven-word summary duo edition?

Laura: Yes.

Micah:

Andrew: One-on-one edition, let’s call it. Here we go.

[Seven-Word Summary music plays]

Laura: Molly…

Micah: … tries…

Laura: … to…

Micah: … save…

Laura: … Harry’s…

Micah: … summer…

Laura: … funnily.

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: Because I’m thinking about the stamps.

Andrew: Oh, okay.

[Seven-Word Summary music ends]

---

Chapter by Chapter: Main Discussion

---

Andrew: Chapter 3, “The Invitation.” So Harry receives an invitation to go to the Quidditch World Cup with the Weasleys and spend a couple weeks with them at the Burrow in advance of the big event. What a nice invite. But as is always the case, Vernon, now in his MeUndies, is allergic to anything to do with the wizarding world. And when Harry pitches the invitation to Vernon, he replies, “How many times do I have to tell you not to mention that unnaturalness under my roof?” And reading this line, the way the Dursleys and Vernon in particular treats being a wizard just reeked to me of how a homophobic person reacts to an LGBTQ person or family member. It’s just like, “I don’t want to hear it, I don’t want to think it, I don’t want it to even be implied or seen in any manner in this house.” And it’s a nice reminder to me that sometimes you need to find your own chosen family, like Harry does when he’s viewed as an outcast. And obviously, at this point Harry really does have his own chosen family, including the one he just received an invitation from.

Eric: Yeah, by Book 4 it shows us that this relationship is not going to get better between Harry and his relatives. It’s a pretty safe bet because right now we see Harry leverage the connection with his ex-con godfather to just get some basic necessities like food, or rather, their permission to be able to do his school-booking at night. So I just think that it’s clear, especially by now, that you’re right, Andrew, these are the wrong people for Harry, they are not his… they’re his family but not his found family. He needs to find better people who do better and surround himself with them.

Micah: Definitely, and Harry… this moment that you’re calling out, Andrew, was towards the tail end of the conversation, but Harry was very strategic in how he was speaking to Vernon throughout most of that conversation; he was tiptoeing around saying certain words or certain phrases. And not only does Vernon react this way… like, he looks to the window to make sure that there’s nobody that could potentially hear what Harry has said, so he’s completely paranoid.

Laura: Yeah. I also was thinking about the comparison you made, Andrew, about the Dursleys really reacting the same way that a homophobic person would react to an LGBTQ+ person, and it made me remember the fact that the Dursleys literally forced Harry to live in a closet for the first 11 years of his life, so that’s just another added layer of interpretation that we can put on this. But I also could see us taking it broader and saying it’s reflective of how prejudiced people in general react to anything that doesn’t meet their standards of normality.

Eric: Yeah, I mean, Vernon is asking followup questions about this letter that arrives, including, “Who is this woman that sent it?” But then when Harry tells her, he insults Molly, and then he asks, “What is Quizzitch?” Or… [laughs] What is Quidditch? Sorry, I’ve never not going to be able to…

Micah: I do it all the time now too.

Andrew: [laughs] “Quizzitch is the trivia game from MuggleCast.”

Micah: It’s your fault, really.

Eric: It’s just so good. Thank you, Kyle, for giving us the gift of Quizzitch. He says, “What is Quidditch?” And Harry tells him, and he says [makes spluttering noises], “What is this rubbish?” It’s like, you’re asking questions, but not coming from a place of caring or really listening. Vernon is just trying to make sure that it doesn’t affect him, that he doesn’t have to get anywhere near it.

Micah: Yeah, and there’s also… you were mentioning Molly, that he references her as a dumpy sort of a woman…

Andrew: Ugh.

Micah: … and Harry notes how that is comical coming from somebody like Vernon, but it just shows you the lack of self-awareness that the Dursleys have. And we’re going to talk more about that when we get to Dudley and everything that he’s going through, but they’re just so caught up in themselves that they can’t really see their own true reflection in the mirror.

Laura: Yeah, it’s also reflective of a double standard that often gets applied to women. So again, Micah, you calling out that it’s comical that someone like Vernon would call someone like Molly a “dumpy sort of woman,” but the reality is society reinforces that perspective, that it’s more acceptable for a man to have that sort of physical appearance than for a woman to have it.

Eric: Yeah, he’s just stout, he’s portly, he’s…

Micah: He eats well.

Laura: Right. He’s big-boned.

Andrew: Yeah. The double standard point is such a good one, too, and I mean, we see that all the time. And look, I’m guilty of it too; everybody talks crap on other people when they’ve got their own problems as well. It’s just like, deflection, deflection, deflection.

Micah: But it’s not like we would expect Vernon to say anything nice about Molly in the first place, so this is not surprising.

Andrew: Right, right.

Micah: The one thing I did want to call out about the letter that the Dursleys receive: It has a million stamps on it. It’s meant to be funny for us as readers. It’s very similar to when Ron calls Harry in the previous book, right? I think it’s an oversight on the part of the Weasleys. Ron says that they have no clue how normal mail works, but given Arthur’s job, shouldn’t they?

Laura: Yeah, and I remember us asking about this when Ron didn’t know how to use the telephone either. [laughs] It just feels so out of place that Arthur wouldn’t be able to offer some knowledge. Also, Ron’s best friend is Muggle-born. It’s pretty easy to figure this out, buddy.

Eric: Do your research. Ask Hermione. I think where Molly errs is saying, “Send a reply to this in the normal way.” That is a value judgment. That is a loaded sentence that is guaranteed to piss Uncle Vernon off.

Andrew: Yeah. And I just think logically speaking, who would say, “Okay, it is time to mail this. So how do I mail this? I know, I’ll put as many stamps as possible on the front of the envelope.” It just doesn’t make sense. Why would they do that? I know they’re like, “Oh, Muggles are nuts, so they probably would do something like this,” but no, just no. I’m insulted.

Laura: Yeah, I mean, I can understand the confusion because depending on what you’re mailing, where you’re mailing it to, sometimes you do need multiple stamps. You don’t need quite this many, not as many as Molly uses, but it makes me wonder if Arthur maybe only has a passing knowledge of how the Postal Service works and was like, “Yeah, I don’t know how many stamps you’re going to need, but sometimes you need more than one, so just put a bunch on there to be safe.”

Micah: But where’d they get them from? They had to go to the post office. [laughs]

Laura: I know.

Eric: Well, there’s that. Yeah, I don’t know. Again, I said that Molly kind of shoots herself in the foot by the wording that she uses in the letter, but the idea of an invitation being sent to the Dursleys more formally is actually kind of a good idea in its outset. The execution we can all agree is awful. But think about it; she’s entreating them. She’s like, “Hey, we love your nephew. We would love to invite him for this very special once-in-a-lifetime event.” It’s a perfectly, in some levels, polite and appropriate thing to have done.

Micah: And can you fault Vernon in this case? If I were the mailman, I would think it was strange that it had all these stamps on it. We’ve got a kooky old grandma that doesn’t know how to mail you a letter the right way. [laughs]

Eric: Right, right. And the mailman is not coming from a place of malice, it’s just interest, but Vernon does not want to stand out. The books are very clear on Vernon and Petunia’s – which, by the way, where is she? – stance on this whole kind of thing.

Micah: It’s just Vernon not wanting anybody to think anything unnatural of him or his family. That’s what it comes down to. He’s afraid the mailman is going to report him to the post office or something.

Andrew: The post office? [laughs]

Micah: Ruh-roh.

Laura: I were that mailman, I would assume that it was some kind of prank or inside joke. Nobody’s going to go back to their superior and be like, “I delivered a really weird letter today.” Who cares?

Andrew: Right. I’m sure they’ve seen it before from Muggles sending to Muggles just for fun; like, a kid would do that. That seems like something a kid would do. Micah said, we did jump ahead a little bit here. As we read the chapter, Harry is laying out Vernon’s conundrum about letting Harry go to the Cup/the Weasleys or not, and Harry sees it as… he looks at both sides of the situation for Vernon. The pro side Harry is no longer in the house. The downside for Vernon is that Harry will get what he wants, and he doesn’t want that. And his evil godfather will know that Vernon is telling him no, he can’t go, and then Sirius is going to come and kill him or something like that. [laughs] But one thing that Harry doesn’t keep in mind here that I thought was interesting: I would think Vernon is also considering the fact that Harry always gets his way. Year one, the letters inviting him to Hogwarts arrive come hell or high water. No matter where they run, those letters come. Year two, his friends bail him out with a flying car. Year three, his magic pushed him to extremes because he was being treated poorly. So if were Vernon, I’d be like, “I have to say yes,” because something bad is going to happen again. Maybe it’s something with Sirius, maybe not, but that would be my top consideration.

Eric: Right. Joke’s on him because something bad happens anyway. He does say yes, and they still end up with their living room destroyed. [laughs]

Andrew: Yeah, so maybe he needs to learn “Say yes and get him out quick before some wizards come over.” So let’s move on to what’s going on in terms of the diet at the Dursleys’ house. Dudley is on this diet and Vernon and Petunia are in on the program as well to support their dear boy. Harry, meanwhile… well, and Harry is in on it too. However, Harry is hiding a bunch of wizarding treats up in his room, and I was wondering… Dudley is surely desperate for the good stuff. The real candy, the sugary sweets, all the unhealthy stuff. Would Dudley have wanted to become a wizard if Harry secretly gave him some of those delicious wizarding desserts? I have to think Dudley is absolutely hating this healthy diet; he would do anything to get back to cake and all that. This could have been a bonding moment.

Micah: It could have. I don’t know if he necessarily would have gone the wizard route, although I’m sure there’s part of Dudley that thinks it’s cool that Harry is a wizard, even if he doesn’t admit it out loud. But I do think this could have been a perfect opportunity for Harry to form some sort of relationship with Dudley, right? He has all of this good food for Dudley to eat; Dudley would be over the moon if he could get his hands on some cookies or some cake. But I think it’s also how Dudley has treated Harry over the years and he doesn’t want any of it.

Eric: I think that there’s a great, non-zero possibility that Dudley would have seen Harry having sweets and turned him in for good favor to the other Dursleys, because remember, one of the few – I know, what a narc thing to do; he’s worse than Nagini…

[Laura laughs]

Eric: But one of the only things that keeps Dudley sane during this time is that Petunia is starving Harry even more by giving him a smaller grapefruit wedge for breakfast or lunch or whatever it is. So I think that Dudley has been raised to think of himself as better than, and so he would take whatever Harry could offer but then immediately turn him in or still find some way to not be 100% doing of the right thing, if Harry were to confide in Dudley that he has this secret birthday cake.

Andrew: I think the Dursleys would have rewarded him with a sweet for reporting the sweets, an eye for an eye.

Micah: Ooh.

Laura: I think Dudley would have stolen all of Harry’s treats, and told Harry, “Yeah, go and tell my parents whatever you want. Who do you think they’re going to believe, you or me?” Because if Harry went to the Dursleys and was like, “Yo, I had all this great birthday cake; he took all of it,” and he’s hiding it and stuffing it down his throat, he would just have to be like, “No, I didn’t do that, Mummy. Why would I do that?” And Petunia would be like, “Oh, my little diddy Dudley kins, you would never do that.” So they would probably punish Harry in some way by locking him in his bedroom or throwing him back in the cupboard under the stairs. I just don’t see this not backfiring on Harry.

Micah: It would have been an interesting test run for Harry to just leave Hagrid’s rock cakes outside of Dudley’s room and see what happened.

[Everyone laughs]

Micah: But I love that Harry does this. He sends out an APB for cake and food…

[Eric laughs]

Micah: … to be sent to him from all of his friends all over the world.

Andrew: “Help me!”

Micah: But I’m curious, what is it? We talk about how poorly Harry is treated. You mentioned the smaller grapefruit wedge, but I’m just envisioning this kid going back to his room, closing the door, opening the floorboard, taking cake and whatever else he has there out to eat at 14 years old just so he can nourish himself properly. It’s a very sad set of circumstances.

Eric: Floor cake. Delicious. Who doesn’t want a piece of floor cake right now?

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: Well, I have a question about this floor cake. How are all of these perishable food items lasting so long? It’s noted that Harry literally receives four birthday cakes in response to his plea for help, and he’s storing them… first of all, how big is this floorboard that he’s storing four birthday cakes and a host of other treats under there? But also, how long is this food lasting? And it made me wonder, is there some kind of charm to preserve food for extended periods of time so that wizards don’t have to worry about their food going bad?

Andrew: You would think so.

Eric: There probably is. But Harry can’t perform that charm; it would have… because that’ll flag the Ministry.

Andrew: No, but other people were making them, so…

Eric: Well, right, so he would have had to say, “Send me stuff and make sure that it can last a while,” that kind of thing… because I can go through four birthday cakes pretty quickly.

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Eric: Before it expires, I’ve had to do that before.

Laura: But do you keep them under your floorboard, is the question.

Eric: No, and that’s the other thing. Look, there’s spiders and all sorts of friends that could come and eat that cake as well. How do you keep it…? There were spiders in Harry’s cupboard.

Laura: I know.

Andrew: Muggles have unfortunately perfected the art of preservatives, and I’m sure wizards could do something similar as well.

Laura: I’m sure. But I don’t know, I was reading about him keeping cake and stuff underneath the floorboards and I was like, “Do you want ants? Because that’s how you get ants, man.”

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: Or can you give us some tips so that we can do that too? I’d love to keep some cake in my room.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: Yeah, Kyle pointed this out in the Discord as well, but what would the…? So Ron probably didn’t make the birthday cake himself, because the book says that he gets cake from Ron, Hermione, Hagrid, and Sirius. All send him cake. Ron did not bake that cake. I mean, maybe he did; maybe people are saying this is Ron assassination. But what would the request have looked like to Molly? For Ron to be like, “Harry is asking us to send food”? That would have… I think she would have dropped all pretense of propriety and not sent this lovely invitation to the Dursleys. It would have been another rescue mission, a Ford Anglia-involved-if-they-still-had-it kind of escape attempt. How did Ron either sneakily or otherwise convey to his family that Harry is asking for food? Because that’s a huge red flag.

Laura: Well, he does note in the letter that he sends Harry, “Ask the Muggles, and if they say yes, we’ll come get you tomorrow. If they say no, we’ll still come get you tomorrow.” So it’s clear that they’re still intending to come get him out. But I think after the events of two summers ago, Molly has taken the lead on planning this because she does not want her children to be breaking any laws to do this like they did a couple years ago.

Eric: Yeah. And Molly did send meat pies as well, so that’s… yeah.

Laura: Yeah, she did. While we’re telling you about food, though, I just want to call out as well that Dudley’s diet is very reflective of the toxic diet culture of the 1990s. A quarter of a grapefruit is not sufficient nutrition for anyone. [laughs]

Andrew: If I’m trying to defend the writing choice at the time, it’s to take a comical perspective on it. It’s exaggerated for comedic purposes, but yes. And I think there has been criticism, especially as time has gone on, that the author was being fatphobic at times in the series with how she describes the Dursleys.

Laura: Yeah, and I agree with that, but I actually don’t think this is fatphobic. I feel like this is a commentary on diet culture of the time, as I said, because there are legitimately – you can look it up – there are diets that have in the past, and in some cases still do, suggest these types of extreme measures that are not sustainable in the long term. And it just reminded me of a lot of the commercial advertisement that we saw around “Lose weight quick” diets, flash diets, and the kinds of extreme measures that people were encouraged to go to to drop weight quickly. And that’s what’s being put on Dudley here, right? Because the Dursleys aren’t educated about the right way to do this and the healthy way to do this, so they’re just trying to do it quick.

Andrew: I think all of us can still visualize the magazine covers at the food store checkout aisles, the promises they were making.

Laura: Yeah, “Lose 10 pounds in 30 days!” type stuff.

Andrew: Yeah, exactly.

Micah: I will say there is no reference, at least in this chapter, about Dudley engaging in any physical activity, which would help, certainly, with a lot of what he’s dealing with.

Eric: Well, right. I will say, although Laura said that that particular thing was not fat shaming or fatphobic, there is a lot in this chapter that is fat shaming and fatphobic. It may actually be the worst offender of every chapter in the Harry Potter books to be fat shaming. The level of comparisons that the narrator is drawing are really offensive to reread, and it’s just pretty egregious, looking back on it, like, “Wow, she actually just compared Dudley’s weight to that of a baby killer whale.” Like, really? How does Harry know what a baby killer whale weighs? It’s just for effect.

Micah: Well, and the fact that the school doesn’t have a uniform big enough for him, right? That’s also brought up in this chapter.

Andrew: And that’s why the school nurse makes the recommendation to Petunia.

Eric: It’s just something to be going on with the Dursleys, something that they are engaged with, so as to not give Harry their full attention. But it’s unfortunate, reading it back going, “Ooh.”

Laura: Yeah. And there’s that whole weird comment about “Dudley had finally achieved what he had been threatening to do since he was three years old, becoming wider than he was tall” or “as wide as he was tall.” And it’s like, what three-year-old is threatening to do that? [laughs] It was definitely an interesting choice.

Micah: Yeah, and I think we can apply what we’ve talked about as it relates to a lot of other characters to Dudley, that he’s a condition of Petunia and Vernon. He’s a reflection of how he’s being raised. And I think we see multiple times in this series how Petunia is just in complete denial about her son. And I wonder if she’s looking across the table and making comparisons to Harry, maybe much like her parents made comparisons between her and Lily. I think there’s definitely something that is going on psychologically with her, where she is just giving anything and everything to her son that he wants when he wants it, regardless of whether or not it’s healthy for him. And that’s both physical and mental health.

Eric: I do want to ask why Petunia was not present for the discussion about the letter because they they clearly dine together as a family, but Petunia, who would normally have a vested interest in keeping out of sight of the neighbors, is not present at all. Vernon handles the confrontation with Harry entirely on his own. And my theory about this – I want to know you guys’ thoughts – is that it might actually speak to a fracture in their relationship, that perhaps this diet that Petunia and Vernon are on is making it so that they’re not spending so much time together, that they’re actually going to different rooms in the house, which we’ve never seen before. The idea that Petunia is leading this charge and they have different ideas about how to raise Dudley, which I think is hinted at. What do we think? Do we think there’s some weight – “some weight” – to that theory?

Andrew: Yeah, I think so. I’ve always just kind of seen Petunia as taking a backseat here, too, when it comes to the decisions around Harry. But I do like that theory. I’m sure this diet program isn’t the best for a relationship in this house.

Eric: I do like your point about Petunia kind of checking out, almost for her own mental health. Like, “I can’t deal with the boy, Vernon.”

Andrew: Well, yeah, and because we know eventually that Petunia was jealous of Lily, so she also takes a backseat for that reason because she would probably be more lenient towards Harry, I think.

Micah: Do we make anything of the grapefruit? Do we think it’s symbolic in any way?

Andrew: Whoa.

Micah: What? [laughs]

Laura: Micah with the deep questions.

Andrew: In what way? [laughs] Have you researched grapefruit or something?

Eric: [laughs] It’s cleansing.

Micah: I don’t know. It’s generally more of a tart, sour type of food.

Eric: It’s not a fan favorite food.

Andrew: Like the Dursleys.

Laura: Well, I love grapefruit.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Eric: No, you don’t. You’ve been conditioned by society to think that you like grapefruits, Laura. You don’t actually like them.

Andrew: That’s an episode title. “Laura loves grapefruit.”

Laura: I do. I’m looking at the benefits. It’s low in calories, high in nutrients, it may benefit your immune system, has weight loss benefits. That’s why they’re giving it to Dudley.

Micah: All right, maybe it’s the perception of it.

Eric: I will say, there’s a Weird Al song, “Grapefruit Diet.”

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: You gotta listen to it.

Andrew: So a couple of smaller notes here. Pig makes his debut, Ron’s new owl, a scrawny little fella. I love him. I think he’s so cute.

Micah: Didn’t he show up at the end of Prisoner of Azkaban? Am I making this up?

Laura: Yeah, he did.

Andrew: He did. Was he named at the time?

Laura: No.

Micah: He wasn’t named, but why does Harry act like he’s never met him before?

Andrew: Maybe he’s in worse shape. [laughs]

Eric: That’s a great question, actually. Because that’s right, that might be a little…

Micah: No, no, Harry is acting like he’s seeing this thing for the first time. But the whole… remember, Ron takes him and lets Crookshanks sniff him. It definitely was at the end of the last book.

Andrew: Look, sometimes you forget somebody – or some creature. It happens.

Laura: There are certain things in these last two chapters where it’s like Harry all of a sudden just forgets everything that he knew about the wizarding world. He literally is like, “Oh, God, I wish I had someone like a parent.” And then it’s like, “Ah, eureka! I have a godfather!”

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Laura: So there is a lot of that going on, and it’s all in the service of giving that recap so that someone who didn’t read the first three books isn’t completely lost. I’m sure that was a requirement by the editor.

Andrew: So also, Percy now works for the Ministry; we’re learning about that for the first time. More to come there. And I think that’s it for the chapter. Okay.

Eric: Two quick ones. Two shorties.

Andrew: Two shorties.

---

MVP of the Week

---

Andrew: And now let’s turn to MVP of the week.

[MVP of the Week music plays]

Andrew: And I’m going to give it to the Weasleys’ super kind invite. I just love it. Not only is it an invite to the Quidditch World Cup, but also an invite to their house. Aww, so nice.

Eric: I am giving mine to Sirius Black, hello, because he stopped what he was doing, lounging on some beach somewhere in a tropical climate, and gathered the ingredients to make Harry a killer birthday cake.

Laura: I’m going to give mine to Ron. He’s a real one, man. He was vowing to come break Harry out of Privet Drive again if the Dursleys said no.

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: And I just gotta give it up for the mailman.

[Everyone laughs]

Micah: Just a thankless position that he is in. He delivers this letter. He delivers the super kind invite, Andrew, that you made your MVP. So there you have it.

[MVP of the Week music ends]

Andrew: Next week we’re going back to the Burrow with Goblet of Fire Chapter 4, “Back to the Burrow,” and now it’s time for Quizzitch.

---

Quizzitch

---

[Quizzitch music plays]

Eric: Last week’s question: In opposition of his new diet, what did Dudley throw out the window? The correct answer is his PlayStation. So correct answers were submitted – here we go – by Andy; Bored on the bus; Chocolate chip Dumbledough; Dudley’s tortoise; Draco’s heart is the color of Bellatrix’s knife handle, black – I don’t know what that means – Glory dolphin; High fructose corn syrup; If the wand chooses the wizard, does the knife choose the house-elf? So many knife ones, geez. Joyodi; Luke the 12-year-old; Norwegian blue beautiful plumage; Pumpkin spiced butterbeer; Super mega foxy awesome hot; The Hogsmeade mead maker; The turtle was probably thinking “Thank God he’s gone”; and Time-traveling Dudley who has at least learned not to throw tortoises.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: Anyway, thank you all to those who submitted this week’s Quizzitch answer, and here is next week’s Quizzitch question: What does Arthur Weasley ask Dudley Dursley?

Micah: Ooh.

Eric: The two are meeting next chapter.

Andrew: A meeting of the minds.

Micah: Such a fun chapter.

Eric: Yeah, it’s a good chapter coming up next week. So we’re taking submissions over on the Quizzitch form on the MuggleCast website. Visit MuggleCast.com/Quizzitch or click on “Quizzitch” from the main nav.

Micah: One thing I just wanted to say about this particular moment: It goes back to a lot of what we were talking about during the episode, the fact that Dudley can take something of value like his PlayStation and just throw it out the window like it’s nothing. It speaks to the character of the Dursley family overall. This is a high-priced item that I’m sure any child would love to have, and Dudley has just thrown it out the window like it’s nothing.

Andrew: Definitely. You know how hard it was to get the new PlayStation 5 a couple years ago? I would never throw that out the window.

Eric: Or get the regular PlayStation a couple years early.

Andrew: Right. Imported.

Laura: I just think about how my parents would have reacted if I threw an expensive electronic out the window. It would not have been pretty.

Andrew: I’d say you’d be eating grapefruit for a week, but you like grapefruit, so you’d be eating something you don’t like.

Laura: I do like grapefruit.

Eric: That wouldn’t be a punishment at all!

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: Yeah, they wouldn’t let me have grapefruit. They’d be like, “No grapefruit for you!”

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: I wonder if Mrs. Figg took it and she was just playing that game that he’s not allowed to play anymore.

Andrew: Oh, that’d be fun. Mega-Mutilation 3.

Micah: Do you think she’s a gamer? She seems like a gamer.

Andrew: Probably not.

Micah: No?

Andrew: I bet she is an Apple Podcast user…

[Micah laughs]

Andrew: … and for just $2.99 a month, she can receive ad-free and early access to MuggleCast right within the Apple Podcasts app.

Micah: That’s a great deal.

Andrew: Patreon does offer more benefits, but if you’d prefer to support us right within the Apple Podcasts app, there is an offer for you. Just tap it in the show and you’ll see the subscribe button, plus a free trial is available, as is an annual subscription. We also have free trials and annual subscriptions on the Patreon. You can sign up today and get access to bonus MuggleCast installments, our livestreams, our planning docs, monthly Slug Club hangouts, or this month, we’ve got the super fun girls’ sleepover party. So lots of benefit for you to enjoy on our Patreon. We couldn’t do this without you, so thank you. If you’re enjoying MuggleCast and think other Muggles would too, tell a friend about the show, and we’d also appreciate if you left us a review in your favorite podcast app. And we love reading those reviews too; they warm our hearts. Thank you in advance for leaving a review. And last but not least, don’t forget to follow us on social media; you definitely want to do that if you’re not already, because you’ve got to keep on top of these exciting announcements that we have, like the girls’ episode and Quizzitch Live. We’ll have more details there as they approach. We are @MuggleCast everywhere: Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, TikTok, Threads. That’s everywhere for us.

[Micah laughs]

Andrew: Sorry, we’re not on Snapchat.

Eric: And LinkedIn.

Micah: We’re on YouTube.

Andrew: Thanks, everybody, for listening. I’m Andrew.

Eric: I’m Eric.

Micah: I’m Micah.

Laura: And I’m Laura.

Andrew: Thanks for listening. Bye, everybody.

Eric, Laura, and Micah: Bye.

 

MuggleCast 630 Transcript

 

Transcript for MuggleCast Episode #630, Nagini the Narc (GOF Chapter 1, The Riddle House)

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Dumbledore: I’ll be going now, Harry.

Harry: Professor, is this all real? Or is it just happening inside my head?

Dumbledore: Of course it’s happening inside your head, Harry, but why should that mean that it’s not real?

---

Intro

---

[Show music plays]

Andrew Sims: Welcome to MuggleCast, your weekly ride into the wizarding world fandom. I’m Andrew.

Eric Scull: I’m Eric.

Micah Tannenbaum: I’m Micah.

Laura Tee: And I’m Laura.

Andrew: And this week we’ll begin Goblet of Fire Chapter by Chapter, and to help us kick off the fourth book in the Harry Potter series, we’re joined by one of our Slug Club patrons this week, Summer. Hi, Summer.

Summer: Hello, thanks for having me.

Andrew: Welcome to the show. We’re excited to have you, and thanks for your support on Patreon. Let’s get your fandom ID.

Summer: Sure, so my favorite book… I’m bad at choosing. Favorite book is Prisoner of Azkaban or Deathly Hallows, favorite movie is Prisoner of Azkaban or Deathly Hallows – Part 1. My Hogwarts House is Gryffindor. My Patronus, I recently found out, is a grey squirrel. And my favorite character is – you can correct me if I’m wrong, but I might be the first person on MuggleCast, and it’s a very unpopular opinion overall – Harry Potter is indeed my favorite character in the Harry Potter series.

Andrew: Aww. That’s sweet.

Summer: I love him. Thank you. I love him. And Sirius Black is a close second. But he grows up in the horrible house that is the Dursleys’, and it really doesn’t turn him into a terrible character at all. If anything, he has a Horcrux living in him, and he’s still a good character at heart. And I think he’s very funny in the books and in the movies, but even funnier on the books. And my favorite first chapter in Harry Potter… this is a great question. I chose “Dudley Demented” from Order of the Phoenix, with “The Other Minister” as a close second. I know everyone loves that. But I love that Order of the Phoenix opening, getting another peek into Harry’s depressing world.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Andrew: “Another peak into Harry’s depressing world.” And fun fact about you, you also worked at the Harry Potter Store in New York, right? Their flagship store.

Summer: I did.

Andrew: What was that experience like?

Summer: It was so fun; I worked there this past summer. I was actually at the butterbeer bar, and I absolutely loved it. I will say that I like the butterbeer ice cream a whole lot more than the normal butterbeer, and I ate a cup of it every shift, and I was known for that.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Summer: I would see how long I could go without eating some because food service is hard work, especially when it’s busy every single day. So I loved it, and I got 30% off at the store, so that was another great part. And it was so fun. When the shifts would get long or I’d get tired, I would just stand there, and they play the soundtrack in the background, and then that would center me. And I’d love standing there listening to the music, even though it did get a little loud sometimes. But it was a lot of fun.

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: That’s so cool.

Summer: Yeah, and I was surprised by how many people who work there weren’t actually fans, and I was slightly disappointed because they’d be like, “Oh, you actually like Harry Potter?” and I was like, “Yeah, that’s why I applied here.”

Andrew: “I listen to a Harry Potter podcast.”

Summer: Yeah, I was like, “You don’t listen to MuggleCast?”

[Andrew and Summer laugh]

Eric: Listen, you need to hijack the speakers and start playing our episodes.

Summer: Oh, I know it. I might have tried.

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: I was going to ask, did you convert anybody to a Potter fan?

Summer: I think I tried, but they were… I tried.

Eric: It’s an uphill struggle. Harry Potter is actually over, Micah, nobody cares about it anymore.

Micah: That’s fair.

Andrew: Well, I was going to say, it’s hard in New York. You’ve got to get a job wherever you can, so people are out there being like…

Eric: Okay, that’s fair. That makes sense.

Andrew: “I’m applying at the Sbarro. I’m applying at the Harry Potter Store. I’m applying at the Duane Reade.”

Summer: And the pay was good. My one coworker, who wasn’t as big a fan as me, was also named Andrew, so shout-out to him.

Andrew: Oh, really? Okay.

Summer: And also Slytherin, so shout-out.

Laura: Are you telling us that Andrew worked undercover at the Harry Potter Store?

[Micah and Summer laugh]

Andrew: I was trying to hijack the sound system to play MuggleCast.

Eric: What, Sbarro wouldn’t hire you?

Andrew: [laughs] Well, thanks for sharing that, and welcome to the show. We’re excited to have you and get all your feedback today.

Summer: Thank you.

Andrew: So we have a couple of brand new announcements before we continue. First of all, Micah, I think a lot of listeners will be excited about this.

Micah: Yeah, Quizzitch Live returns later on in October. We’re really excited to bring this back. This was something we had a lot of fun with, particularly during the pandemic, but it’s something that we’re going to keep on doing as long as we can come up with trivia questions, and there are plenty of them out there. So we will be doing Quizzitch on October 28, more details to follow, and then we’re planning on releasing this as a full episode on Halloween. So this Quizzitch Live will have a Halloween feel to it of sorts; we’ll have questions about wizarding world candy, as well as James and Lily, given everything that went down on Halloween all those years ago, but the main focus of it is an OWLs edition, so study up on your Charms, your Potions, your Transfiguration, and Defense Against the Dark Arts. And huge shout-out to listener Nicole H., who provided these questions. Saved me a lot of work, to be quite honest, so we really appreciate her sending these in. She’s been a longtime listener of the show.

Andrew: Yeah, and so we know listeners really like these live Harry Potter trivia games that we put together. Everybody will be able to participate, so stay tuned for more details. But again, like Micah mentioned, this will be occurring on October 28. It is free to play, and there will be prizes.

Micah: Oh yeah, there will.

[Everyone laughs]

Micah: Andrew gave me full reign of the budget to be able to go and get prizes.

Andrew: I don’t remember talking about that, but all right, maybe Summer gave me too much butterbeer.

Micah: I was just going to go with full-size candy bars like you do for Halloween.

Andrew: Yeah, that is true. Thank you, Costco and your discounts.

Eric: And one thing about the Quizzitch is if you do miss the live stream, you can play at home later because that will be released on Halloween as the episode.

Micah: But no prizes if you play later.

Eric: Oh, yes, fewer prizes. If you want the prizes, the big, big prizes that we have plans for…

Micah: The prize is playing, really, at the end of the day.

Eric: The prize is the friends that we made along the way.

Andrew: So stay tuned for more details, but clear your calendars now, October 28 for the live Quizzitch. And we also have another cool announcement: So longtime listeners might remember that we used to do transcripts for the show.

Micah: Yes, I did.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: Micah led the transcripts team, we had a lot of people working on the transcripts for us, they were amazing… And then we got away from it because it was a lot of work. But now times have changed, and there are great transcription tools that automate a lot of the process, and so we’re excited to share that we are getting started again on transcripts, and we’re going to go back into our archive and get all the episodes that we haven’t transcribed, transcribed. And one exciting aspect of this announcement is that Eric’s girlfriend Meg, who is a MuggleCast listener herself, will be doing the transcripts for us. She’s going to be looking through what the bots transcribe and making sure everything’s up to snuff because they’re not good with Harry Potter words.

[Eric laughs]

Summer: I was going to say, they might have some struggles with that.

Eric: “MuggleCast” comes out differently every time we say it. It’s very fun to see. [laughs] But yeah, the coolest thing about it is all the recent episodes of MuggleCast will have transcripts first, so it’s another new way to listen to or experience, let’s say, the latest episodes. They’ll be up usually within a week of the episode coming out. So yeah, it’s a fascinating thing. Transcripts are great. They also work much better in things with screen readers and other additional… it’s just great to have transcripts, and it’s a really great way for the archive to archive all the amazing things we’ve said and done over the years on this show.

Micah: We are now fully accountable for everything we say.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: Yeah, unfortunately, that’s the one downside..

Andrew: It’s important for accessibility, as Eric was getting at. And Meg is just, as I said to you, Eric, the perfect person for this because she knows the show. She knows us. She knows Harry Potter, unlike the bots, so…

Eric: The craziest thing is that she’s going to be transcribing our complimenting her in like a week’s time.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: It’s the weirdest thing. So the more we say nice, she’s going to blush, it’s going to be a thing… but yes, we’re very excited to bring Meg on. The reason that we can do this is because of support of listeners like Summer on Patreon. We can fund this kind of work, which is a lot of work. It’s hours and hours of work. The bots help, but they can only do so much, so we’re very grateful to all of our listeners. And hopefully, people use these transcripts. And my favorite thing to do, really, with transcripts is to Google if I’m like, “What’s that episode where we first said ‘Peace and love,’ and what were we talking about?”

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Eric: In five years, I’ll have the answer when all the transcripts are complete. Because I forget the origin of that phrase, for instance, but it helps you figure out where it all came from.

Micah: I will just shout out Meg, though, because it is a thankless, tedious job at times, so huge kudos to her in advance of taking on this project.

Andrew: Definitely.

Summer: Thank you, Meg.

Laura: Yeah, she’s amazing.

Andrew: And speaking of Ringo Starr, Eric, you saw Ringo Starr the other day?

[Laura laughs]

Eric: I saw, I got this T-shirt.

Andrew: He’s wearing a “Peace and love” shirt. Oh my gosh.

Eric: Peace and love, everybody, yeah! I’m very excited.

Andrew: Did you yell “Peace and love” at the venue?

Eric: Everyone was yelling “Peace and love” at the venue.

Andrew: Really?

Eric: Yeah, I mean, the shirt… it’s this whole thing now. I think ever since he asked people to stop sending in fan mail to him, because he was getting overwhelmed, that saying… maybe it was before then, and that saying is just iconic. Yeah, he was great. You know what, 83 years old? He can move.

Andrew: Wow. Dang. Good for him.

Eric: Yeah, it was a great concert, his All-Starr band.

---

Remembering Michael Gambon

---

Andrew: And on a serious note now, last week we had our Goblet of Fire movie commentary. We actually had recorded that the week prior, as you may have heard at the top of the Goblet of Fire commentary. Michael Gambon passed away a little over a week ago. Of course, he played Albus Dumbledore in movies 3 onward, and we just wanted to take a moment to reflect on his role in Harry Potter. I know we’ve jokingly, maybe some of us more than others, talked about how… there’s always been a debate about who was the better Dumbledore, Richard Harris or Michael Gambon, but I’ve always felt like Michael Gambon was always my favorite Dumbledore. I thought the way he played it was necessary, especially for the later films. I have a hard time picturing Richard Harris playing out the cave scene, for example.

Eric: Yeah, I mean, I’ve said this before, and I think I reiterated it in the commentary, but Movie 6 Michael Gambon’s Dumbledore is flawless in my opinion and one of my favorites. The scene I actually get the most enjoyment out of watching him do is where they go and get Slughorn at the beginning of the movie.

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: That is just so fun, seeing Jim Broadbent, Michael Gambon, and Dan Radcliffe do those things. Everything from the knitting patterns to just… it’s so Dumbledore and it’s so perfect, and so I’m really grateful for him in general. I hope that he rests in peace and his family finds comfort, but yeah, that’s definitely a favorite all-time moment for me for him in films.

Summer: Yeah, going off of that, you just mentioned the cave scene; I actually just rewatched Half-Blood Prince with my boyfriend, and it was almost… I find the cave scene almost hard to watch every time I watch the movies, because Harry forcing him to drink that potion… it’s just awful. It’s awful in the books too. So that part is bad, but then when Harry gets taken under the water by the Inferi… and the whole fire spell scene is just incredible. My mom is a huge Dumbledore fan and a huge Michael Gambon fan, and yeah, Half-Blood Prince is her favorite movie, probably because of Michael Gambon. And also, not just because he passed, but because I feel this way anyway, I will, I think, agree with Andrew in terms of I am a Dumbledore apologist, but I will defend his delivery of the infamous line in Goblet of Fire of “Did you put your name in the Goblet of Fire”?

Laura: Yes!

Eric: You can try. You can try defending it. You will fail.

Summer: No, I think… in the books, I understand why he was calm. But in the movie, Dumbledore knows that there’s no way Harry is getting out of this, his name came out of the Goblet of Fire, he is magically bound to participate in the Triwizard Tournament and he is going to be in danger all year because of it, and so he is very stressed and angry at the situation. And I defend how he delivered that line because I think he knows exactly what is going to happen, which is Harry is once again in danger all year.

Eric: So basically, you’re like, “Everyone in this movie is shouting, why not Dumbledore too?”

Summer: [laughs] I mean, like he’s angry on Harry’s behalf that Harry has been drawn into this.

Laura: Well, and here’s what I will say: As Potter fans, no matter how you feel about that line, it is an iconic moment in Potter history. [laughs]

Eric: The shake and scream heard ’round the world.

Andrew: I will say, my favorite was probably the Snape’s memory sequence in Deathly Hallows. I mean, that was amazing. It was just… the info dump there was incredible, of course in the book, but in the movie as well, and I thought Michael Gambon played that really well. So that would be my choice, if not the cave stuff, because I also thought that was very good.

Micah: For me, I think first off, one of the things we have to take into consideration is that Michael Gambon was stepping into a role of a character that quite honestly, outside of the trio, was the biggest role in the series. And that’s obviously with no disrespect to Snape and Alan Rickman’s portrayal, but I think from a character standpoint, Dumbledore was probably the biggest outside of Harry, Ron, and Hermione, and so I think it’s tough to come into that in the third film. But I will say, I think he really turned me over time to really appreciate the way that he portrayed Dumbledore, going off a lot of the points that were raised here, and I really loved him in the “King’s Cross” scene in Deathly Hallows – Part 2 with Daniel Radcliffe. I thought his delivery of some of Dumbledore’s most iconic lines was just spot on. And you could tell that he really enjoyed that scene; I think he talked about it being one of his favorite scenes as well. So I think that he became Dumbledore. I don’t know that he started out that way, but I think, at least for me, he became Dumbledore.

Andrew: I think that’s a beautiful assessment. Yeah, I think that’s great.

Laura: I would say a favorite moment that really sticks out to me is the Astronomy Tower at the end of Half-Blood Prince.

[Andrew weeps]

Eric: “Severus, please.”

Laura: I know, and I hate it because that’s Dumbledore’s death scene and we’re talking about Michael Gambon dying here, unfortunately. But I thought the way that he portrayed Dumbledore in that moment, talking Draco through what he’s going through and trying to literally get Draco to back away from the ledge and not do this to himself, full on knowing he’s about to die. Right? This is the plan, it has been the plan all along. I thought that he played that perfectly when I read the book initially. The way that they chose to portray this in the movie is almost exactly the way I imagined it when reading the book. And it felt like one of those moments where across the board, not just Gambon but everyone involved with the movie was completely in sync with the text. And his delivery of those lines and his mentoring of Draco, even though he knew he was about to die, was just spot on.

Andrew: Of course, we’re focused on his career with Harry Potter, but he was a legendary actor outside of the Harry Potter films, so rest in peace, Michael Gambon, and thanks for all of your contributions to the Harry Potter films.

Micah: No easy way to switch gears, but I did want to mention that we oftentimes on the show will talk about special editions of the Harry Potter books that have been released, and we’ve talked about MinaLima and the great work that they have done on the Harry Potter series, particularly the Harry Potter films and the Fantastic Beasts films. But they are in the business of releasing illustrated editions of their own of the Harry Potter books, and Prisoner of Azkaban was just released on October 3, so I wanted to just do a brief mention of that. There’s nothing really more to say, but I’m sure you know seeing their take on things is always very cool.

---

Chapter by Chapter: Goblet of Fire introduction

---

Andrew: All right, well, now let’s jump one book ahead to Goblet of Fire because we are kicking off Goblet of Fire Chapter by Chapter today. And before we get into Chapter 1, just wanted to look back at the initial publication of the fourth book. It was originally published July 8, 2000 in the US and the UK; this was the first book to be released simultaneously in both countries. There were midnight release parties, obviously, in both countries, but also around the world. This was the first midnight release party that I went to. I posted a photo to the MuggleCast Instagram; I think we’re going to repurpose that into a TBT coming up soon as well. Anybody else attend the midnight book release for this one?

Micah: Nope.

Laura: I didn’t, and I’m so sad that I didn’t.

Andrew: Summer, not you either?

Summer: Uh, brace yourselves: I wasn’t born yet.

Andrew: You weren’t born yet!

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: What!

Micah: This show is done.

Summer: I got a little bit of a shock looking at the doc and seeing that was the date.

[Everyone laughs]

Summer: I was not even a thought in my mom’s brain.

Eric: Oh my God.

Summer: I was born about a year later on July 7, actually.

Andrew: Oh, okay, so almost a year to the day.

Summer: Yeah, which – quick note on that. I always was a little sad that Harry’s birthday wasn’t on July 7. I thought 7/7 would be a great birthday for him. I know it was on the 31st because of the author’s birthday and the end of July and all that, but I was always like, “I feel like he could have had my birthday.” But yeah, I was not at the at the midnight premiere. [laughs]

Andrew: You were very much not. Well, I was and I had a great time as a millennial.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: I don’t think I’m going to recover from this.

Andrew: July 8 was a Saturday, and they purposely picked a Saturday so kids would be off from school. Obviously, it was in the summer too, so that was helpful, but there was also no workday commitments. I think it was probably easier on parents as well to get their kids to a midnight release party if it was happening over the weekend. When was the last time each of us read Goblet of Fire? I think for me it’s been a while.

Laura: It’s been a long time.

Micah: So I was thinking about this, and I can pretty much with confidence say the last time I read Goblet of Fire was the last time we did the Goblet of Fire Chapter by Chapter, which was in 2010, so it has been 13 years since we have read and analyzed Goblet of Fire.

Eric: Hey, that is as long as Voldemort had to wait to kill Harry Potter in this chapter, he says.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Micah: I might be a little rusty with this one.

Eric: This is the one… I’m so excited for this Chapter by Chapter. I always loved the fourth book; it’s very comparable to 3 for me. I have a lot to thank Goblet of Fire for, but here’s a fun fact about that: I also have something to not thank Goblet of Fire for. It was the first Harry Potter book I ever picked up, and I read just this chapter.

[Laura and Summer laugh]

Eric: I read just this chapter. You know what? This is isolating. This is excluding of any general audience member when you… and we’ll go through this, but I picked it up, I didn’t understand what the heck was going on, and I put the book down. And it was two more years before I was a Harry Potter fan. But yeah, Goblet of Fire. It’s funny because the way I read it, I read this chapter now and it’s a fantastic chapter. It’s really good. But not only is Harry not in it, “Wormtail” is a codename, and it’s all about the villagers of Little Hangleton and Great Hangleton and the gossip in the towns. I was like, “What is this book even about? Where are the boy wizards?”

[Laura and Summer laugh]

Eric: So anyway, it’s funny because I think that the departure… what this book does well is it opens up, is really brave, bold, new, exciting, trying new things, good world building, to everyone else’s point. But yeah, it shook me, and I put the book down for at least another year and a half. And it wasn’t until the first movie ended up coming out that I saw what it was all about.

---

Chapter by Chapter: Seven-Word Summary

---

Andrew: Now finally, let’s get to Goblet of Fire Chapter by Chapter, and this is Chapter 1, “The Riddle House,” and we’ll start as always with our Seven-Word Summary. Summer will kick things off. Here we go.

[Seven-Word Summary music plays]

Summer: Voldemort…

Eric: … decides…

Laura: … to…

Summer: … plan…

Andrew: … a…

Micah: … amazing…

Eric: … murder.

[Everyone laughs]

[Seven-Word Summary music ends]

Andrew: All right, off to a good start.

Laura: The most amazing murder, in fact.

Eric: The most amazing murder!

---

Chapter by Chapter: Main Discussion

---

Laura: So I am so excited to be kicking off Goblet of Fire. I feel like I’m entering my spooky season era, right? This is my favorite month, we’re starting Chapter by Chapter for my favorite book, I’ve got my MuggleCast beanie on, I’m here, I’ve got my Dunkin’…

Andrew: You are living your best life.

Laura: I am living my best life! This is wonderful.

Andrew: You’re feeling all the peace and love, and spooks.

Laura: [laughs] Andrew is like, “Peace and love, please move on.”

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: If we waste 60 more seconds, Andrew will pass out and have a stroke. It’s good, it’s good.

Laura: He’s like, “Shut up.” But really, getting into it, I want to highlight – it’s pretty obvious, we all know this – but this is the first book since Sorcerer’s Stone to open without Harry. And as a matter of fact, Sorcerer’s Stone, Goblet of Fire, and Half-Blood Prince all do this to set the scene.

Andrew: I was wondering how J.K. Rowling’s editors felt about that when they got the manuscript for Goblet of Fire, like, “Oh, whoa, wait a second. This is a Harry Potter series. You’re big, but I don’t know if you’re that big. You’ve got to hook people from the beginning.” Obviously, at this point, Harry Potter was very big, so maybe they felt like, “Okay, we’ll let her do what she wants.” [laughs] But I don’t know. If I was an editor, I think that would give me pause. You can’t open up a children’s series with some grim chapter that doesn’t involve Harry.

Eric: Look, I’m proof. It turns people away. It really did.

Andrew: Thank you.

Eric: And I wanted those… Goblet of Fire was worth 23 points in Accelerated Reader if you read it, and I really wanted those points. I wouldn’t have to read the rest of the quarter. I might be speaking 1980s terms for people here, but I wanted the rest of those points. I wanted to like this book, and I couldn’t get into it because where the hell is Harry?

Summer: Voldemort and Wormtail are both in it, which are both very recognizable names. Well, I guess… I don’t think they say “Voldemort,” but it’s probably pretty obvious.

Eric: “My Lord,” yeah.

Summer: Yeah, okay. Eric, It says 4 on the binding, so I feel like we can’t keep defending that you read it first.

Eric: Now it does! Now it says 4 on the binding! That’s on me. I’m sorry.

Summer: Maybe it made the editors a little more open to it versus when you read the first book and it’s the Dursleys. I remember quickly losing interest, and it took me a couple tries to get through it. But Andrew, that’s a great point that, yeah, it’s supposed to be a children’s series and it is a very grim opening, so it might have turned a few people away.

Andrew: There is a specific mention of Voldemort. There’s a lot of “My Lord,” but there’s a “Lord Voldemort” at least once. I’m just looking right now.

Eric: Yeah, look, there’s something to be said for starting in the middle of the action. That’s good writing. The middle of this murder plot to get Harry is really good writing. I just read the chapter again; I love it. I will say, this is great. It’s one of the better chapters. The character of Frank, reading through it. But yeah, the whole way that it opens… is Harry absent, though? Because he’s kind of dreaming this.

Micah: Right, he’s there.

Laura: Yeah, we learn at the end of the chapter that…

Summer: It was a dream.

Laura: Yeah, he is somehow connected to this.

Eric: Huh. Like, via Horcrux or something.

Laura: And it’s so funny because there are definitely a couple of important Horcrux mentions in this chapter, even though they’re not directly mentioned. We hear about the events that led to two of Voldemort’s Horcruxes being created in this chapter, which is super fascinating.

Eric: Which two?

Micah: We’ll find out.

Laura: They’re in the course of the discussion. They’ll be revealed [laughs] as we talk.

Micah: This might be a bit of a hot take, but thinking back on it, to me, Sorcerer’s Stone almost opens a bit with a Casual Vacancy vibe to it, just the way that the Dursleys are described. And this book opens up totally differently, because to your point, you do get a lot of action. You get a murder in the very first chapter of Goblet of Fire.

Summer: Three!

Micah: Oh yeah, fair. Three.

[Eric and Micah laugh]

Eric: Justice for Tom’s parents, Mr. and Mrs. Jerkweed Riddle.

Micah: What I wanted to bring up is I think in past books, we talked about how there’s so much recapping of what happened in the prior book, particularly with Chamber of Secrets and Prisoner of Azkaban. And it seems like, at least for the purposes of the first chapter, J.K. Rowling stayed away from that completely. Because I feel like if you are a reader that has been with her through the first three books, you don’t want to get hit with that recap again right away, and I think by the time you get to the fourth book, it’s really something that you shouldn’t need. So sorry, Eric, that you started on the fourth book. [laughs] But it’s just, it gets old.

Laura: Yeah. Well, also, by this point in time, we have to remember Harry Potter was a critical hit. I mean, it was a huge success, even at this point, so that would have given her the freedom to be able to open the book this way. Maybe if it were half as successful as it was or even less, maybe she wouldn’t have had that freedom and she would have had to do the info-dump recap chapter. But she doesn’t have to do it because Harry Potter is so ubiquitous and successful at this point. As a matter of fact, by this point, doesn’t Warner Bros. already have the rights for the first three movies?

Eric: By the time this was published, the movies are filming, I think. That’s also before you were born, Summer.

Summer: [laughs] Don’t keep reminding me.

Laura: Our point of focus from the start of this chapter is the damp, derelict, and unoccupied Riddle House of Little Hangleton. And of course, as anyone who’s read the prior three books, we can immediately tag this as “Okay, this has something to do with Tom Riddle.” So we already know about him. Eric, you had an interesting headcanon, dare I say, about the ownership of the Riddle House?

Eric: One of the things that we get in all of this world-building apart from the history of the mansion, how it went through different owners, is that it is currently owned by someone that does not inhabit it, and the local townsfolk think that this person owns the mansion for tax reasons, because that’s the kind of thing Muggles come up with when they have no explanation for what’s going on here.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: But Frank is also said to be receiving a regular payment to still be the groundskeeper here. And I’m thinking, first of all, who’s the owner? And second of all, is Frank’s payment something that’s managed directly? Who owns the house? Is it Voldemort? If Voldemort has a vested interest, like maybe this was a one day safe house, or if it’s Lucius Malfoy who knew some kind of connection to the house, it ultimately is very interesting. I want to know who it is. And as far as regular payments, you could probably set up a spell to duplicate Muggle money and just deliver it in somebody’s mailbox on a regular… have it appear and reprint. Is Frank Bryce getting paid by an inanimate spell? I’m just thinking about how this all works to keep it going.

Laura: Yeah, it also makes me wonder if Voldemort could’ve Imperiod a Muggle, like found a wealthy Muggle and just cast the Imperius Curse on them to force them to take ownership of this home but never really want to visit it, so they’re financially responsible for maintaining it so it doesn’t get bulldozed or condemned or something like that. And as a result, that person is stuck paying Frank and any other staff who still live on the grounds, but now Voldemort has this safe haven that he can go to any time that he can count on being unoccupied.

Micah: Right.

Summer: I like that theory a lot. Definitely seems like something Voldemort would do, and that’s really an interesting way to think about it. And I also wonder if Voldemort – even though he doesn’t like his dad or his grandparents at all because they’re Muggles – if he feels like he has a right to the house, because technically he would be the heir to it, even though his dad didn’t know he existed or wouldn’t have actually left him the house, I believe. So almost, he would feel like he had a right to it because it belonged to his predecessors.

Eric: Yeah, as much as he tries to disown his predecessors, it’s like, “Oh, but this is also my house.” We know Voldemort likes to keep trophies, so “My father’s house, I killed him and his parents and took his house.” The thing that gets me about Imperius Curse is: Was Frank himself suffering from some level of commitment? There’s a question in this chapter of why Frank remains at the house, and why would you? If you were in your 20s, your employer and his family got murdered, and the whole town – which is a very small town that likes to talk a lot – suspects you, why would you stay? Why would you stay behind? And the question for me is, it’s talking about the boys that come and throw stones and break windows. The book says, “They knew that old Frank’s devotion to the house and grounds amounted to almost an obsession,” and it also says that “They rode their bikes over lawns that Frank worked so hard to keep smooth.” Listen, you’re fighting a losing battle. Why would Frank still invest this much time in this place that’s kind of a bad situation?

Laura: Well, we’re going to unpack Frank’s character and background a little bit here, and we might be able to unearth some hints about why he might do this. But I want to zoom out and think about the overall legend that seems to follow the Riddle House and exist in Little Hangleton. So just to set the scene for the time and place, because we’re talking about present day, this story taking place in 1994, but the events of this chapter actually cover events that transpired 50 years previously. So 50 years before this, so around 1944, the villagers of Little Hangleton all agree that a maid had entered the drawing room one morning at the Riddle House to find all three Riddles dead. Tom Riddle, Sr., his parents, a.k.a. Voldemort’s dad and his grandparents. They’re described as having their eyes wide open, being cold as ice, still in their dinner things. It’s a very bizarre sequence of murders because there’s seemingly no reason for these people to be dead.

Micah: It was the maid in the drawing room with a…

Laura: [laughs] I know, it’s like Clue.

Eric: Right before the Riddles died, there was a voice saying, “Rosebud!” It’s like such a mystery.

Micah: Sorry, I don’t mean to cut you off.

Laura: No, you’re all good. I also wanted to call out, first Horcrux mention of the chapter: Voldemort’s murder of his father, Thomas Riddle, Sr., is where we get the ring Horcrux. So the ring Horcrux was created with this murder back in the mid-1940s.

Summer: Yeah, I was curious. I’m sure it would have been mentioned if it had been, but was the Dark Mark not cast above the house? Maybe it wasn’t a thing yet. Is that something that Voldemort’s supporters made up? Or I’m like, does Voldemort himself ever cast a Dark Mark? Or is it one of the Death Eaters when they murder someone? But I’m imagining it wasn’t there because I think it would have been mentioned in the book, so I was curious why it wasn’t there, why Voldemort didn’t cast… or maybe that’s below him to do that, and that’s just what the Death Eaters do.

Micah: It’s a good question. I tend to think and agree with what you’re saying, that it just didn’t exist yet. And even if it did, it would probably would be passed off as oh, pollution, regular smog in the town of Little Hangleton.

Andrew: [laughs] Pollution?

Summer: Strangely shaped pollution?

Eric: [laughs] That’s a great point, Muggles are unwilling to believe anything could possibly be magical.

Micah: One of the things that’s really curious about this timeframe, too, is it is going towards the end of the Second World War, and this ties a bit into probably what we’re going to talk about with Frank, but that 1944 time period, the fact that Tom returns to his… well, he’s not returning; he’s invading his father’s and grandparents’ home to murder them. But going back to this whole idea of the house being a trophy, I’m also wondering, is there a curse here of some sort on the Riddle home? Because it’s not just this wealthy person that we hear about. The home has actually been owned by multiple people over time, but it’s said that they don’t stay very long, so it makes me think of those scary horror movies that you see where over time people just move in and out because something keeps them from from staying there. It’s very honestly comparable to what happens with the Defense Against the Dark Arts position, right? People continuously cycle in and out. So I wonder, would this have happened…? I’m trying to think of the timeframe with Tom Riddle, but is this another example of him being able to cast a curse of that sort, this time on on the Riddle House?

Laura: That’s so interesting.

Andrew: And maybe it wasn’t even intentional. It’s just like, once that occurred, it was a curse on the house, or just the vibes were off in the house henceforth. Maybe it had a funky smell to it.

Summer: Bad vibes.

Laura: The vibes were sus?

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Laura: No, I mean, I love it because at the very least, the Riddle House is cursed just by association with what happened, right? So it’s common knowledge that three people were murdered in this house, so you can assume that anyone who moved in there either knew about the murders when they chose to move in, or they found out about them not long after they moved to Little Hangleton.

Eric: That’s a good point.

Summer: Unsolved murders at that.

Eric: Oh, that’s creepy. Yeah.

Laura: So with that, I can imagine that it could carry a curse insofar as people just not being comfortable there. I mean, in real life, people have a hard time moving houses where people have died, right? Usually in most states, at least here in the US, you have to disclose that kind of thing, especially if it was something violent like a murder or like what we’re talking about here, and it can make it really hard to sell that kind of house. So there’s definitely a stigma associated with the Riddle House for sure.

Eric: Maybe the subsequent owners just couldn’t stand the gossipy nature of the small town people.

[Everyone laughs]

Laura: Maybe.

Eric: These people are unbearable.

Summer: They were above it.

Laura: Well, I’m glad that you bring up the villagers because it is noted that they do not waste their breath pretending to feel sad about the murder of the Riddles. Specifically, they are described as “Elderly Mr. and Mrs. Riddle had been rich, snobbish, and rude, and their grown-up son Tom had been, if anything, worse.” I really love this as a comparison to the Dursleys, if we think about the opening chapter of Sorcerer’s Stone where we get that “Mr. and Mrs. Dursley of Number Four Privet Drive were perfectly normal, thank you very much.” It’s giving very similar energy. So I love the comparison between the Riddles and the Dursleys as being these upper class, rich, snobbish, worst versions of Muggles you could imagine, and the impact those families have on Harry and Voldemort, who in a lot of ways, are very similar.

Eric: That’s a good connection.

Laura: Yeah, so I just love that because it’s interesting, Harry would never think about going to murder the Dursleys. You have the same family structure, you have the two snobbish parents and their crappy son.

Eric: Huh!

Laura: So the fact that Harry doesn’t do anything overly malicious to them is just another example of Harry making the opposite choices to what Voldemort would do.

Micah: And what’s interesting about that, too, is Harry spends way more time with the Dursleys than Tom does with his family. Tom spends all of maybe an hour. Who knows what was going on in that room? That would be a great adaptation for the TV show; we don’t really get that much insight into it as far as I remember. But Harry is spending years with the Dursleys and turns out better than Tom does.

Andrew: And doesn’t want to kill them. [laughs] The whole time.

Micah: Well, as far as we know. I mean, I’m sure there were a couple thoughts.

Andrew: Tom spends an hour and is like, “I want to murder them.”

Micah: One thing I did want to bring up talking about Tom Riddle, Sr.: We don’t know a whole lot about him, at least at this point, and just the way that he’s described as being even worse than his parents, it raises the question as to why Merope was interested in him to begin with? We know that they’re younger, so was it purely looks based? Or what happened to Tom Riddle, Sr., was that a result of what Merope did to him? Does he become even worse than his parents Bbcause of being under this love potion for such a long period of time?

Eric: Ohh.

Laura: I love this.

Micah: Maybe he was the greatest guy in the world when they first met, but he becomes a bit of a you-know-what afterwards.

Summer: Yeah, I did find this description of Tom Riddle, Sr. a little surprising, because in my mind… even though we knew Merope wasn’t genuinely in love with him, in my mind, I saw him as the polite, handsome man who lives near them and Merope is infatuated with him. Maybe she saw him being kind to the neighbors outside and it made her like him and everything, so I was surprised to learn that he wasn’t necessarily a nice person or a polite person. So again, whether or not she was just obsessed with him purely based on looks, I think certainly that comes into it, and they were similar ages. And we know that part of the reason Merope got with Tom Riddle, Sr. was to spite her brother and her dad, the Gaunts, who were very much pure-blood, and because she seemed to be very isolated and had a horrible living situation. So I think any connection to the outside world, like a handsome boy who could distract her while she was living in that horrible house, all led up to her giving the love potion.

Laura: We talk a whole lot about how Voldemort, Tom Riddle, was doomed from the start because there’s just something broken in the soul of a person conceived under the influence of a love potion. I mean, basically Merope roofied Tom Riddle, Sr. into getting her pregnant, right? So if we’re going to say that something happens to impact the soul of a child conceived through these events, what happens to the person who is assaulted? In this case, Tom Riddle, Sr.?

Eric: That’s a great point, and it doesn’t need to be that they really had any kind of relationship. If we’re vilifying Merope for what she did and calling it rape, which it was, then you can kind of just say that this person who descended from a long line of Slytherins – not to malign Slytherins; I promise that’s not where I’m going from this – did the ultimately most Slytherin thing and had the ambition to go after what she wanted. She wanted Tom Riddle Sr. in her bed, and she got him, she reached out, she touched ambition, and so it’s not that they necessarily had a long courtship or that they would have interacted at all. I think he was probably just the stuck-up, snobbish, rich person that two stuck-up, snobbish, rich people have as their child, raised them with their values, a disdain for the local villagers, and that Merope did just think he was cute. She didn’t really have a point of reference, looking at her own family members. And she went for it.

Micah: Laura, going back to what you brought up before, comparing Harry and Tom in these moments, Tom makes the conscious choice to go and really eliminate his bloodline altogether, right? Specifically his father. I don’t know how much he really cares about his grandparents, but I would assume when he went there, the target was his father. And you think about Harry and how much Harry would give just to be able to have family, to have his father, to have his grandparents. It’s two completely opposite ends of the coin.

Eric: Oh, I love that. The other element here about killing all the family, when you said, Micah, just now that maybe just his dad was the target for Voldemort, what surely would have transpired while the Riddle seniors were having dinner is that Voldemort would have come and said, “Dad, why did you abandon my mom?” and the dad would have been like, “I don’t even remember, dude, she was a witch or something, and she coerced me into this crazy thing.” And Voldemort would be so embarrassed, so shocked, so vulnerable, to find out that his mom had hoodwinked a Muggle, that he could leave no survivors. He could not let anyone know how embarrassing and how shameful he must have felt in that moment, and so everyone died. Because he thought this whole time that Tom Riddle just wasn’t a good dad, that he wasn’t there because he had chosen to abandon his kid. He never chose to have the kid, and that’s a twist. And I can’t see Voldemort of any age being emotionally able to really wrestle with what that all means. He would have just killed everyone on site and left.

Laura: I agree with you, but I also think Voldemort went here with the intention of killing them and creating the ring Horcrux.

Summer: Yeah, now I am really curious about whether he confronted his father and they had a whole conversation – I think that would be super interesting to see maybe in the TV show – or if he just marched in there and murdered them. Because at first, I believe he just marched in there and murdered them, but now I’m very curious about whether he took the opportunity to talk to his father, if he would even want to, because we all know what Voldemort thinks about Muggles.

Laura: Right.

Micah: It makes me think of when they talk about Bellatrix, they say she likes to play with her food beforehand.

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: I don’t know the Voldemort is like that. Voldemort is very business.

Eric: No, but he would have had righteous anger. The thing about that is they all had a look of horror on their face, and if somebody walks in and brandishes a wand and says “Avada Kedavra,” you don’t have time to have a look of horror. You’re like, “Who’s this guy? And also what’s…?” A look of surprise, maybe, if he had just… he talked to them. He shouted at them. He said, “I’m going to kill you,” and that’s why they looked shocked when they died. There was an entire convo.

Laura: Do you think he walked in and went, “Hello, Father?”

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Summer: Yes.

Laura: And then Tom Riddle, Sr. was like, “Who are you?”

Eric: He probably looks just like him, to be honest. I bet they knew immediately who Voldemort was.

Laura: It’s a good call. Well, like we see happening in society around major murder cases that are very highly present in the local news cycles or even on social media, if we think about the way things play out today, Little Hangletons in 1944 gathered in the village pub to gossip and spread rumors about this. Very interesting note that the village pub is called the Hanged Man.

Micah: I thought that the pub could easily be a reflection of the topic of discussion, right? Frank Bryce is a hanged man in the court of public opinion, all of these villagers. Maybe they took a little bit of convincing; early on we see that. But once the consensus is out there, Frank did it. And there’s plenty of examples in present-day society that we could point to that are similar to what happens to Frank here.

Eric: Frank has been canceled.

[Laura laughs]

Micah: Exactly.

Andrew: Frank’s been canceled, and when enough people repeat something, it becomes true, right? Maybe with a name like the Hanged Man, they all feel encouraged to show up there and gossip about a lot of people all the time, especially when the mead is flowing.

Laura: I get the impression this is the only pub. Little Hangleton sounds like a very small town, and so when I imagine a small town like this, they have a church, they have the town pub, and they have a football pitch, and those are the things that their social culture revolves around. So the Hanged Man is where all of the Little Hangletons go to discuss town affairs.

Andrew: It’s also probably not news to a lot of our listeners that pubs over in the UK and Ireland have very fun names, and I did a little Googling and maybe J.K. Rowling was actually a fan of the Hanged Man’s Pub in Kildare, Ireland. Rated 4.6 out of 5 stars on Google Maps, so people seem to really enjoy it, and it looks like a great little pub.

Eric: This whole small town discourse is giving Broadchurch.

Laura: I know, right? I didn’t think about that. But Eric, you also had a good point about what the name of this pub could refer to.

Eric: For anyone who’s familiar with tarot – that’s been getting more of a shout-out lately as we talk about prophecies, divination, all these other kinds of cool branches of magic – the hanged man tarot card is the twelfth card in the Major Arcana. It depicts a man suspended upside down from a living world tree, bound by his right foot while his left foot remains free. The hanging man is not in distress as evidenced by his serene expression, signifying he has chosen this position willingly. Again, kind of questions why Frank Bryce would stay around. And if you get this card in tarot and it’s not reversed, it means wisdom, circumspection, discernment, trials, sacrifice, intuition, divination, and prophecy. So it’s just a great friggin’ name.

Laura: Yeah, there are so many layers to it.

Andrew: All right. Well, we’ll continue talking about this chapter in a moment. But first, if you’re hiring for your business on your own, you’re as helpless as Voldemort without an adult body.

[Everyone laughs]

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[Indeed ad break]

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Summer: Indeed is where I found my job at the Harry Potter Store.

Micah: Really?

Laura: Ooh, great endorsement.

Eric: Whoa, tried and tested, y’all!

Summer: I was so surprised because it said the location of the job, and it was like a 10-point font and it was like, “Harry Potter Store, West 23rd Street,” and I was like, “Is this a joke?” But it wasn’t, so…

[Andrew and Summer laugh]

Laura: That’s amazing.

Andrew: That’s good to know.

Laura: Great connection. Well, we spent a lot of time talking about the imagery that is evoked by the name of this pub, the Hanged Man. We get to hear now about Frank becoming the hanged man, and I love this imagery of it being the Little Hangletons in the Hanged Man who are socially hanging Frank. There’s just a lot to it. I love all the imagery and the alliteration there. But the Riddles’ cook did eventually arrive at the pub and announced that the Riddles’ gardener, Frank Bryce, who we spend most of the chapter with, had been arrested for the murders, so this is where we’re going to talk about Frank. We learn that Frank had had a “hard war,” and that he’s also nearing his 77th birthday in 1994, meaning that he was born somewhere around 1917. When you look at the list of various war conflicts that Great Britain was involved in, there are a few of them that Frank could have fought in, but World War II feels like the most obvious choice based on the timing and also based on the fact that we know World War II is a point in time that the author draws a lot of comparisons and allusions from for writing these books. So it’s interesting to imagine Frank fighting in World War II when we know that the Dumbledore/Grindelwald conflict is happening at exactly the same time. Makes me wonder where Frank might have been stationed, what, if any, contact he might have had with the wizarding conflict unknowingly?

Micah: My question with all of this, and this is a larger question every single time that we get to criminal acts, is: Where’s the evidence that Frank is responsible in the first place for this? Did Voldemort/Tom Riddle set him up in some way? We never hear about that. But why was Frank the choice of anybody to blame for these murders? Just because he’s the weird guy living in the shack on the property?

Andrew: Who had access to it, because there is no sign of anybody breaking in.

Eric: Of forced entry.

Andrew: I think one of the townspeople says that.

Micah: But what about the people already in the house?

Andrew: I agree with you, Micah, though, it’s not a good case. It’s not a good argument, but they just have nobody else.

Micah: What about the maid? Or the cook?

Eric: Well, there were no charges. Oh yeah, the maid got in somehow. Frank was not really arrested; he was questioned. And I think it’s just the coolest thing because this chapter really is about, in some ways, the way Muggles deal with magic being in their midst. None of them know magic is a thing. But later, when Frank hears Voldemort speaking Parseltongue, he’s 100% right in his intuition – having never experienced magic before – that that’s what’s happening. It’s happening in front of him. But confronted with the magic of “These people were killed,” a whole team of Muggles, the coroner and stuff from probably Big Hangleton, are unable to come up with anything and they’re looking at these magically killed corpses and can’t possibly discern what happened. Their best guess is the only thing any of these people are going to get to because they’re not magical. They can’t do a spell reversal. Magic always leaves traces. These Muggles can only guess at it.

Laura: And I think a lot of this, in terms of Frank being the hanged man here, comes down to scapegoating. And it’s so interesting to see this playing out in the Muggle world because we see it happen a whole lot in the wizarding world; we just finished reading a book where Sirius Black was the ultimate scapegoat, even though he didn’t do anything wrong. And people give excuses about Frank being already set up for failure here; they say things about him, like “The war turned him funny,” “He always had a nasty look about him,” “I wouldn’t want to get on his wrong side.” So it really doesn’t take much for the villagers to convince themselves that Frank is indeed the culprit.

Micah: But it’s also them finding something to attach to that gives them the reason to be able to put the blame at his feet. And Eric, you mentioned this earlier, this could be this timeframe’s version of cancel culture. That’s essentially what is happening to Frank Bryce, in this moment. It also seems to be a bit of a commentary, however brief it is, on the effects of war, and PTSD, and how society… not to say we’ve come a long way, with respect to this, because I still think there’s a lot in current day that we need to do. But at that time, how conditions of war affected people and how it was perceived by the rest of the community, the rest of society, it’s very easy for them to place blame at the feet of Frank. And we see this in other characters too, right? And actually one in this book in Mad-Eye Moody, who has also gone through the wizarding wars, and has himself lost his leg. And Frank is somebody who complains when he gets up about pain in his leg. Cormoran Strike is another character who went through the Afghan war, who lost his leg, and so I wonder if there’s a through line here in some of these characters that J.K. Rowling wrote.

Eric: It’s very clearly PTSD that he suffers from. He can’t have loud noises, he doesn’t like people very much, and this antisocial behavior, which is the horrors of war, for crying out loud, are given as evidence to say that he did it.

Andrew: This was definitely reminding me of Cormoran Strike as well while I was rereading this chapter. It almost felt like a chapter out of one of those books.

Summer: Yeah, and he’s kept himself quite isolated. His workplace and his home are on the same grounds; he lives in a little cottage on the ground and he tends to the garden. So if he ever does venture out to the town and people aren’t the nicest to him, it gives him all the more reason to just stay isolated, and then it gives all the townspeople more time to gossip and make up stories about him.

Micah: And we see this happen with Harry, too, right after his name comes out of the Goblet of Fire, and then you could probably even extend it a bit into Order of the Phoenix where he is treated in many ways as public enemy number one. And it’s all because of the gossip and the talk that is associated with him becoming a Triwizard champion, and then becoming a target of the Ministry later on in the series. So it’s just a nice kind of connecting the threads of sorts, because I’m not sure what book we’re supposed to connect Goblet of Fire to, since it’s right in the middle.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Whichever one you want. It’s a wildcard.

Eric: [laughs] It a wildcard. It’s a free space on the Bingo.

Laura: This is why I love Goblet of Fire, because it’s not connected to any other specific book, it’s connected to all of them because Goblet of Fire is the mantlepiece of the series, right? And all of this setup is so dependent on what comes in Books 1 through 3; we have to have the setup from those books for any of this to make sense. But then Goblet of Fire also provides a lot of the necessary setup for the remaining three books in the series, so it’s just perfection. I will die on that hill.

Summer: Laura, I didn’t realize how much you loved Goblet of Fire.

Laura: I adore this story.

Summer: I feel like it’s not a very common favorite book.

Micah: She has a tattoo. I’m just joking.

[Everyone laughs]

Laura: I don’t, but I should probably get one. But while we’re talking about Little Hangleton, let’s talk about Great Hangleton. So it becomes clear that it’s really the police force of Great Hangleton that covers Little Hangleton; I guess they don’t have their own police. Frank is over in neighboring Great Hangleton, insisting that he didn’t do anything, and that the only person he had seen near the Riddles’ house on the day of their deaths had been a dark-haired, pale teenage boy. Dun-dun-dun.

Summer: Wonder who that could be.

Eric: James Potter? Snape?

Laura: Ultimately, as we’ve already established, Frank gets released from police custody because the autopsies of the Riddles confirm that the cause of their death is unexplainable. The only thing that the coroner notes is that they all have looks of terror on their faces, and there’s this great line saying something along the lines of, “Have you ever heard of a person being scared to death?” and that’s the only explanation that anyone can give, and there’s just no real way of proving that Frank could have scared them to death. But it is interesting. You have a good point here, Summer, about the Muggle perspective of the Killing Curse.

Summer: Yeah, I thought it was really interesting to get that perspective because we get a lot of the wizarding side of the Avada Kedavra curse, the big green spell and all of that, so I thought it was very interesting to see the Muggle side where it was, you can’t tell at all what it is. It’s not an inside joke, but it’s definitely you have to be on the inside of being a part of the wizarding world to know what happened here. And I’m curious if there was ever a wizard or someone from the magical community who lived in Great Hangleton, if they would have caught on. I think they would have. But yeah, it was interesting to get the Muggle perspective, and how it was just a great mystery. They couldn’t have said that they were… something that wouldn’t necessarily show on the outside, like they were all poisoned or something, but they couldn’t find that on the inside either.

Laura: And it is interesting, too, because you would think that the Department of Magical Law Enforcement would know…

Summer: Or get summoned.

Laura: … that Avada Kedavra was cast here. I mean, we know from all the letters Harry gets that they know when magic is performed in front of or around Muggles.

Summer: Great point.

Laura: So it raises the question, what was the Ministry involvement here? Or was the Ministry so bogged down by everything going on with the Grindelwald conflict at the time, that they just didn’t have the resources to address any of this and they let it skate on by without really investigating anything? We can fast forward now, after we’ve spent some time in the past, to 1994 where Frank Bryce awakens due to his bad leg, which we’ve already established, and when he goes to make himself some tea, he notices some lights glimmering in the upper windows of the Riddle House, and he has had it with these kids on his lawn!

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: “Get off of my lawn!”

Laura: “You kids get off my lawn!” So he still has the key to get into the Riddle House. He still remembers the layout. He lets himself in, sneaks upstairs, and he pretty quickly finds the source of the light. It’s a lit fireplace in one of the rooms inside of which are two men, and he overhears a conversation between some man that he can’t see with a croaky high-pitched voice and someone named Wormtail.

Andrew: Some baby man.

Laura: [laughs] Baby man. We’re going to start calling Voldemort “Baby man.”

Andrew: Man child, something like that.

Laura: Honestly, at this point in time, at least based on how the movies depict him, he looks like a fetus, like Fetusmort. Very disturbing.

Andrew: Not an attractive episode title. Crossed my mind for a second.

[Everyone laughs]

Laura: Please don’t use that.

Andrew: Nobody’s going to hit play on that one.

Micah: I have an option for you coming up.

Andrew: Okay.

Laura: So we hear here that Wormtail is feeding Voldemort with a bottle.

Summer: So weird.

Eric: Aww. Does anyone else get a maternal instinct from this? This is really cute.

Summer: No.

[Micah laughs]

Laura: Yeah, but Voldemort is talking to Wormtail about how he needs to milk Nagini, and I know that he’s talking about her venom, right?

Micah: I hope so.

Laura: So Voldemort is drinking her venom out of a bottle.

Micah: Right, and so this led me down the road of wondering if Peter Pettigrew is in fact a certified snake milker because this is an actual job. It’s true; these people exist out in the world, and a snake milker is a type of herpetologist, which is basically a type of zoologist, and people who work in this highly specialized area extract venom from snakes and other reptiles which produce venom that could cause illness and death. They’re specially trained in handling these sensitive and protected animals, which often have legal protection. So to become a snake milker, it requires a lot of education. And there’s ultimately two main purposes for the extraction of venom: It’s either used for research, or it’s used to create anti-venom when people get bit by snakes to heal them. So I’m just wondering when Pettigrew learned how to do this. Does he just tell Nagini to roll over?

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: And this is our introduction to Nagini, too, right? The first time we’ve ever seen her.

Eric: Yes, and this is the day… well, I don’t want to spoil that.

Micah: Further abuse of her in this matter, actually.

Eric: Depending on Voldemort, what control he has over snakes… talking to snakes is different, but controlling them… he could just make her put up with it and not kill Pettigrew when Pettigrew does it. I can just imagine the sheer terror Pettigrew must feel every time he has to milk her fangs and hold her head down, whatever that is. But Micah, I do want to say thank you, especially on behalf of Meg who loves snakes and animals, to clear that up. This whole thing of “It’s time to milk Nagini,” I didn’t know what that meant for the longest time. The fact that this is a real process with real snakes, it’s a real thing because otherwise, it’s mildly concerning what this means. I don’t know.

Andrew: Was that the episode title you suggesting? “Certified snake milker”? Or is it still coming up?

[Eric laughs]

Micah: I think it works well.

Laura: Well, poor Frank is standing here at the doorway listening to this conversation. It’s clear that this “Wormtail” and this man who is restricted from view at the moment are talking about trying to plan some kind of murder, but they’re talking about waiting until after the Quidditch World Cup and Ministry involvement and using some boy named Harry Potter in order to achieve this plot that the men have in mind.

Summer: Yeah, and real quick, I know you’ve talked about it on the show before, I think in regards to the opening of Half-Blood Prince where Snape is calling Pettigrew “Wormtail,” but why the heck is Voldemort calling Pattigrew by his Marauders name? I always thought that was a little weird. And “Pettigrew” is a perfectly good Death Eater/Voldemort sidekick last name.

[Andrew laughs]

Summer: So I think it’s weird that he calls him by the Marauders name because before Pettigrew turned evil, the Marauders name was quite special during his time at Hogwarts, so I found that a little strange.

Eric: That’s a great point, especially because it’s isolating to readers who didn’t read the third book because who the hell is Wormtail? At least Pettigrew is a proper last surname. Maybe Frank Bryce would confuse it with Miss Pettigrew, who is a nice person. I don’t know. It’s possible also that Voldemort calls Wormtail this because he knows that Wormtail is the name that Peter had with his friends who he betrayed, and so this whole through line where Voldemort says to Peter in this chapter, “You wouldn’t be here if you didn’t have anywhere else to go, and you’re not loyal, you’re scared and cowardly,” etc., etc. He calls him “Wormtail,” and he’s Wormtail to all the Death Eaters probably as another way of just twisting the screw on Peter’s loyalty, which is worth garbage. So maybe Voldemort calls him that as a further form of torture.

Laura: Yeah, I mean, it could also be that they used that as a codename essentially for, again, back in the 80s, when Peter was acting as a double agent, right? And he probably didn’t want to have Death Eaters openly using the name Peter Pettigrew because of the events at the time. It would potentially compromise his position.

Summer: Good point.

Eric: That’s great.

Laura: It could be that’s why they were using it. But Eric, I want to talk about Peter’s cowardice here. Because obviously, Voldemort’s plan involves Harry, but Peter starts trying to convince him that another wizard could do; they don’t need to use Harry Potter for this. It’s going to be a lot harder to get close to Harry. They could arrive at the conclusion that we get in the summer following this book much sooner if they just went with another wizard. And he says things like, “My Lord, I do not say this out of concern for the boy. The boy is nothing to me.” But is that true?

Eric: No. I mean, two things I think. One, Pettigrew might, on some level, be aware that he owes Harry a life debt. He might on some level. It’s unknown how common the idea of life debts is because Dumbledore in the previous book said, “It’s deep magic,” so who knows who knows the deep magic? But the thing I think is more likely is that Pettigrew is scared of just having to confront Harry again, be in the same space as Harry again, because he escaped the last time that he was with him. Here’s another thought, maybe he’s even more terrified of what Ron would do to him. Because Harry is bound to be next to Ron whenever they go for Harry, and everyone at Hogwarts… Pettigrew just escaped this horrible situation where he was almost… everything. And so he doesn’t want to deal with… of course he’s scared.

Micah: And he would have to confront, presumably, Remus and Sirius again.

Eric: Oh, to get to Harry! Absolutely.

Micah: Right, there’s another layer of protection now that wasn’t there before.

Eric: There’s something there that wasn’t there before.

Laura: And it’s interesting, too, because it makes me wonder, what is Voldemort’s level of awareness about the events that transpired at the end of Prisoner of Azkaban? Because Harry ultimately made the choice not to kill Peter, right? They could have done it; Remus and Sirius were prepared to do it. Harry made the choice not to, and that directly led to Peter being able to escape. Dumbledore has that great line at the end of Prisoner of Azkaban where he says, “I doubt that Voldemort loves the idea of his servant being indebted to Harry Potter,” right? But I wonder at this point, does Voldemort know and is that why Peter is so nervous? Because he’s like, “Oh no, he’s going to find out”?

Micah: Well, we certainly see that Voldemort has, even in this form, a certain level of Legilimency that he’s using. He can sense when Pettigrew is not telling the truth, so I don’t know if he can read his mind completely, but I would assume at this point he doesn’t know about the debt owed to Harry. Maybe he finds out later on, or maybe he never finds out.

Eric: He underestimates the reasons behind how Pettigrew is feeling. So he insults him, he knows he’s weak, He knows his cowardice, but he doesn’t look further. I like to believe Voldemort doesn’t know about the life debt and never finds out because otherwise… here he needs Pettigrew, to survive, and could not get by without him, but by the time Malfoy Manor comes up in Book 7, he would have killed Pettigrew long before if he knew that he still owed Harry one.

Micah: The other thing that really comes across in this whole exchange is you get to see how truly vicious Voldemort is. We’ve seen a lot of the Tom Riddle side of him, which is a little bit more…

Eric: Polished?

Micah: There’s an attractive side there, whereas with Voldemort, he’s just a complete you-know-what to Pettigrew, and Pettigrew is there for it. He could easily just leave him on the chair and go run off into the night, and he chooses to stay.

Laura: Well, and it almost seems for a second like Pettigrew might be trying to massage the process so that he can do exactly that, Micah, because he’s like, “Give me just a couple days, I will go find a suitable wizard and come right back to you,” and Voldemort is like, “Okay, well, you’re the one who’s responsible for milking Nagini. You’re the one who’s responsible for feeding me. If you leave me for two days, I’ll die, so no.”

[Laura and Micah laugh]

Summer: I think Voldemort would send Nagini with him, or if he tried to escape would send Nagini right after him.

Micah: What if he put baby Voldemort in a backpack and just…?

Andrew: Aww, that’d be cute.

Laura: Like if he swaddled him?

Eric: A little Baby Bjorn.

[Laura and Summer laugh]

Laura: Somebody do the AI art of these.

Summer: In a stroller. In a covered stroller.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Laura: And Micah, you have a great call-out specifically relevant to this moment where Wormtail is reunited with Voldemort about Trelawney’s prophecy.

Micah: Yeah, it’s the prophecy. It’s the prophecy coming true, and to the point of what we were talking about earlier with this first chapter, if you did read Prisoner of Azkaban and you heard the prophecy, you’re getting rewarded right in the first chapter of Goblet of Fire with Wormtail and Voldemort being reunited with each other.

Laura: We also get some pretty heavy-handed hints about the ritual to come at the end of the book. I had forgotten about some of these. So Voldemort says, “I have my reasons for using the boy, as I have already explained to you, and I will use no other.”

Summer: Yeah, so this is referring to the flesh, blood, and bone at the end of this book where Voldemort gets a human body again, and he needs a human’s blood to do that. As far as I’m aware, he could use anyone’s, but he chooses Harry’s because he wants the protection of that and the power of that and just because Voldemort is a little crazy. So are we to believe that he could have had a human body much quicker if he just used anyone else’s blood? He could have had a human body like, today, but he waits a whole year so he could get Harry’s.

Andrew: That was the impression I was getting.

Laura: Yeah, that’s what Pettigrew says.

Eric: Past a certain point, yes. I think that when Pettigrew found him, he was still like dust, basically. But through the combination of Nagini and the milking, he could get one today, but he might not have been able to get one two weeks ago, though.

Summer: No, I agree.

Andrew: He’s crazy and it’s Voldemort’s ego. He’s like, “I will get Harry. I want this you-know-what. He’s mine. We will wait for him.”

Summer: The Boy Who Lived.

Laura: Now this is my other favorite: Voldemort says to Wormtail, “I will allow you to perform an essential task for me, one that many of my followers would give their right hands to perform.”

Summer: Ohh.

Andrew: That was way on the nose, way on the nose.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: I picture Voldemort rolling his little baby body over to the camera and staring right into it. “Just y’all wait.”

Laura: He broke the fourth wall like in an episode of The Office.

Andrew: I want to apologize to Voldemort, too, for just using the phrase “On the nose” right there. I know that’s triggering to you.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: That was unintentional. My guy, I’m sorry.

Laura: He also says, “I’m not asking you to do it alone. By that time, my faithful servant will have rejoined us.” And at this stage, that term, “My faithful servant,” could refer to a few different people, right, Micah?

Micah: Totally. There was a lot of theorizing back in the day about who this faithful servant was or was going to be, and it could have been anybody from Barty Crouch, Jr., who we’ll meet a little bit later on in this book, Snape very much a popular opinion, and then also Karkaroff, who we learn is a former Death Eater once we meet him a little bit later on in this book as well. So there was a lot of theorizing going on. That was a fun time to be a Harry Potter book fan. But you always had to read between the lines with these types of comments that were made by different characters.

Laura: Or if you take Cursed Child as cannon, Cedric Diggory. [laughs]

Summer: So do we think it is Barty Crouch, Jr.? Is that who he’s referring to?

Laura: I think so. I think so. Well, this is where we get the Bertha Jorkins name drop. We learn that Peter ended up coming across her somehow at an inn they were staying at, which is an interesting series of events given that Bertha was a Ministry employee and she would know that Peter Pettigrew is supposed to be dead. So obviously, from the moment she came across Peter, she was marked. She was already dead. There was no way she was going to survive this. But Voldemort alludes to information that she gave that allowed him to hatch their plan. I think that the information he’s referring to is about the Triwizard Tournament.

Summer: I agree.

Micah: Yep, definitely.

Summer: And that’ll be a great cover-up for getting Harry to the graveyard.

Laura: Right.

Micah: There’s so many questions, too, for me, that now come into play with Nagini being a Horcrux and her also being milked for the purposes of bringing Voldemort – or at least sustaining him until he’s fully brought back – to life. Because number one, she’s now a Horcrux. And number two, we know from the Fantastic Beasts series that she’s a Maledictus, so she’s cursed in and of herself. There’s a lot I’m sure that we could dive into in terms of how Nagini is being treated by Voldemort, given what we do know about her, but do all those things in terms of the blood and the cursed nature of her blood kind of invigorate Voldemort in a way?

Laura: Yeah, I think so.

Andrew: We mentioned also the Memory Charm, Peter muttering something about that, and I thought that was interesting because it also basically confirms that Wormtail doesn’t know what Voldemort is truly doing. Certainly not what it takes to create a Horcrux, if he’s suggesting something as measly as a Memory Charm. No, we’ve got to do something much greater.

Micah: It also shows he’s kind of stupid, too, because if you just put a Memory Charm on her, presumably there are witches and wizards back at the Ministry who could easily unravel it, and then all of a sudden – and I think Voldemort actually says this – they’re going to know things that they shouldn’t know or that he can’t afford for them to know. So it just shows you, I don’t know, maybe Wormtail is just… in the moment he’s very overwhelmed by everything that’s going on and he can’t think straight, but yeah.

Laura: Yeah, I think the thing is Wormtail is absolutely a baddie, and not in a good way. You can be a baddie in a good way, but he is not a baddie in a good way. He’s a baddie in a very evasive, sneaky way. He doesn’t want to get his own hands dirty, right? So he’s responsible for the Potters’ death, but he didn’t directly kill them, right? And he doesn’t have the stomach to be close to violent activity, it seems. So while he was perfectly happy to hand the Potters over to Voldemort, while he was perfectly happy to hand Bertha Jorkins over to Voldemort, he doesn’t want to have to witness any murder, right? And it is so interesting as we’re talking about the death of Bertha Jorkins, the creation of Nagini as a Horcrux, we know that she is the last Horcrux that he created. So the timing of this is super interesting that Voldemort creates his seventh and final Horcrux somewhere between Book 3 and Book 4. We just don’t know it at this stage as readers. Go ahead, Summer.

Summer: I found that very interesting too. In my mind I was always like, “Oh, they were all created before he came to murder the Potters and baby Harry overpowered him.” So I find that very interesting, too, that he gets a body again and then he wants to make another Horcrux even though he’s already so struggling to survive so much.

Laura: Yeah, no, it’s a great call-out because I had forgotten about the timing of this, too, until I read the chapter and I was like, “Oh my God.” Without even knowing it, we get direct descriptions of the creation of two Horcruxes in this chapter, which which is really, really cool. Well, Frank is not interested in hanging around at this point. He decides for the first time in 50 years, “Okay, maybe I can trust the police with this one thing, so I’m going to make a break for it and go get the police involved.” But before he can do that, Nagini is slithering towards him down the hallway. And I’m calling her Nagini the narc.

Micah: There’s a title.

Eric: That’s an episode title! There we go.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: We found it.

Laura: Nagini the narc tells Voldemort that Frank is outside the door.

Eric: Wait, is she a narc? Or is she a snake narc a.k.a. snarc?

Laura: I love that. Nagini the snarc. And again, this is another case where it’s similar to Bertha Jorkins. Frank is already dead, right? He doesn’t die for a few more minutes. Voldemort invites him into the room, they converse for a few minutes, but it is so clear that it is effectively lights out for Frank. And I loved the description from Frank’s point of view of Voldemort performing the Killing Curse on him because Voldemort’s current physical state is so horrifying that it receives no description. We just read about Frank being so horrified looking at him that he’s screaming. So Frank is so horrified at the sight of Voldemort that he is screaming, right as Voldemort casts the Killing Curse. Frank of course has no point of reference for the Killing Curse, so he doesn’t even catch what it is before he’s unfortunately dead on the floor.

Micah: Yeah, and it made me wonder: How is this version of Voldemort strong enough, number one, to use a wand, and number two, to cast the Killing Curse? Because we know that it does take a tremendous amount of energy, it does affect you, it rips your soul. So it seems like Voldemort in such a weakened state to be able to do this… he must be pure evil. There’s just no other way around it.

Eric: That was exactly the phrase I was thinking in my head when you were talking. Pure evil. He’s got to be pure evil. Also, I assume it gets easier the more times you do it, which is a sad thought.

Summer: Yeah, maybe it doesn’t take Voldemort as much power as it would take…

Eric: Well, it’s like how Harry with the Patronus is like… sometimes by the end of it, “Expecto Patronum!” and it’s like, immediately this whole thing, but it took him some.

Andrew: Yeah. Another day, another Horcrux. [imitates Voldemort] “Another day, another Horcrux.”

[Eric laughs]

Laura: Well, and Voldemort’s soul is irreparably damaged at this point, right? Because he’s created seven Horcruxes at this point. His soul is just ripped to pieces, so it probably doesn’t cost him much of anything to do this. But I’m very interested in how something like this might be portrayed in the TV show, and I really hope that the first episode of the Goblet of Fire season really focuses on this chapter, because as we talked about with the movie commentary, we didn’t get any of this extra context, which really adds to the mystery of this book.

Micah: I was just going to connect the threads one final time here within the same chapter, actually, because it’s coming full circle, right? Voldemort kills his father and his grandparents in this house, Frank is blamed for it, and then at the end of this chapter, it’s Frank who is killed in the Riddle House in exactly the same way. And exactly the same facial reactions, too, right?

Eric: Oh man, what are the locals going to say about that?

Micah: Is the maid going to find him?

Laura: Yeah, who are they going to blame? [laughs]

Micah: Or do you think Nagini just eats him?

Eric: Yeah, Nagini probably eats him.

Laura: Aww, yeah, probably. Ew.

Eric: “Nagini, dinner.”

Laura: That’s her girl dinner.

[Everyone laughs]

Summer: Oh no.

Eric: Way to stay relevant, Laura.

Andrew: With “seemingly ranch.” Swifties will understand that.

Summer: I got the reference, Andrew.

Andrew: Okay, okay.

Laura: So this chapter ends with revisiting the hero of the series, with noting that 200 miles or so away, Harry Potter wakes up with a start, implying that he has witnessed the events of this chapter in his dreams.

Andrew: Hmm, speaking of Horcruxes, it’s almost like there’s a connection here!

Summer: Almost.

Laura: We don’t know it, but this is the third Horcrux that gets mentioned in this chapter.

Andrew: You’re right. Yeah.

Eric: [laughs] Man! The difference between what Harry has dreamt before and what he’s presumably “dreaming” now is that it’s a window into the present. Harry is basically astral projecting. Harry is inhabiting Voldemort. The Horcrux is traveling to connect and touch off of its older… this comes up bigger in Book 5, when Harry is able to witness intimately conversations that Voldemort is having with his Death Eaters. That’s exactly what this is. The difference is Harry is not conscious yet when this happens, but I think Harry’s unconscious mind is having this link. The reason this is happening for the first time is that Voldemort is getting stronger, so Voldemort is more of a person and the brain patterns can relate. It’s basically just this magical special power that Harry has and is just turning on, and it’s extremely exciting. And it’s not touched on the rest of this entire book, but it’s amazing what’s coming. The idea that that happens in the twixt between these first two chapters of Book 4 shows that J.K. Rowling also knew exactly where she was going with this, and it’s heating up. It’s amazing.

Summer: Yeah, I like the connection that you make that it’s probably because Voldemort has a body and so their minds are actually able to connect, whereas in the past, Harry was connected to Voldemort only through his scar and the pains in his scar. So maybe Voldemort in whatever form he was in still had the slight power to trigger Harry’s scar paining, but not give these full visions to him. But now that he’s grown stronger, they get full visions/dreams. Very interesting.

Laura: It is. Well, we’ll pick up with Harry next week when we cover Chapter 2, but I think for now it’s time for us to go ahead and get into MVP of the week.

---

MVP of the Week

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[MVP of the Week music plays]

Andrew: I’m going to give it to Wormtail. Look, he’s super helpful and he’s giving legs to Voldemort’s plan.

Summer: [laughs] Oh my God. I just understood what you meant by that.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Laura: I thought a lot about this because I feel like there’s only really one character in this chapter who deserves MVP who’s redeemable, but I think I’m going to have to give it to Voldemort.

Andrew: Wow.

Laura: Mainly because he’s a very effective planner. He had a goal. He’s seeing the goal through. You gotta give it to him for the motivation.

Eric: So MVP, in this case, is most Voldy the person of the week.

Laura: Yes.

Andrew: Our friend Tyler, who’s been on the show once or twice, will be very happy with this pick, I think, Laura.

Laura: I know. Thank you. I’ll have Tyler’s endorsement. That’s all I need.

Eric: I’m going to counteract a Slytherin MVP with a Gryffindor one. Frank used his wartime bravery, and if he had gone to Hogwarts, would have been a Gryffindor. The willingness to set aside his police differences, also that trust in the system that intrinsically comes back to him… just love Frank Bryce.

Micah: My MVP goes to Nagini for being milked and providing Voldemort with the sustenance he needs to go on. Because without Nagini, who knows? Voldemort just… poof.

Laura: Nice Slughorn reference.

Summer: I’m going to echo Eric and choose Frank Bryce because he literally confronted Voldemort face to face and he says something like, “Turn around and face me like a man,” which I thought was very brave of him. And he says he goes in to talk to Voldemort because he hears that Voldemort is planning another murder of this Harry Potter boy and he wants to try to stop him. It’s very brave and valiant of him. So Frank Bryce gets two this week.

[MVP of the Week music ends]

Andrew: Next week we will discuss Goblet of Fire Chapter 2, maybe Chapter 3 as well. I’m heading up next week’s discussion. I looked ahead to Chapter 2…

Micah: Are you sure?

Andrew: It looked a little light. We’ll see. So maybe think about reading Chapter 3 as well. We will see later in the week as we really get planning that episode. And now it’s time for Quizzitch!

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Quizzitch

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[Quizzitch music plays]

Eric: Last week’s question: Who found the Riddle family dead? And some people did submit the wrong answers this week, but the correct answer we’re looking for is the maid. Correct answers were submitted by Forrest the 10-year-old who’s back; Frank’s forgotten kettle choo-choo…

[Laura laughs]

Eric: Frank I’ll-mow-your-lawn-anytime Bryce; Peter the snake milker; Moral fiber PSA you need 25 grams every day; Will the real bad Barty please stand up; Elphias Doge’s dodgy leg; I bet if Draco’s carpet matches – oh God – his drapes they’d probably look like Justin Timberlake’s ramen noodle hairdo…

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: What happened to this segment?

Eric: [laughs] What happened to this whole segment? Dobby had a sock, now Dobby has a knife…

[Everyone laughs]

Summer: Aww.

Eric: Talia loves bagels…

Summer: Oh my god. I’m crying.

Micah: They’re taking after me clearly. [laughs]

Laura: Man, this is… I told you, this is 50% of why I do this show, is just hearing all these names.

Eric: Oh man. Shout-out to everybody. Somebody submitted as “Hey y’all,” somebody else said, “It’s my birthday today October 7.” Congrats. And “Mom who thinks some fan fiction is canon.” Yeah, that’s me too. And I think some canon is fan fiction, so there we go.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: Here is next week’s Quizzitch question.

[Quizzitch music plays]

Eric: In opposition of his new diet, what did Dudley Dursley throw out the window? Submit your answer to us on the MuggleCast website at MuggleCast.com/Quizzitch.

[Quizzitch music ends]

Micah: It wasn’t Harry.

Eric: He does not throw Harry out the window.

Micah: This is not Game of Thrones.

Eric: Click on “Quizzitch” on the main nav, if you’re on our website checking out the new transcripts that are up there! Last couple episodes are up there. Check them out. There’s a transcripts page. You’ll see it.

Andrew: Transcripts are brought to you by listener support. Your support helps us get those transcripts done. So if you want to support us like Summer does – and get a beanie like she just put on, the MuggleCast beanie, Laura has been supporting it today as well – you can head over to Patreon.com/MuggleCast and support us there for between $2-10 per month, and depending on what tier you pledge at, you get a variety of benefits. The Slug Club level is the $10 level and that’s where you get a new physical gift every year. And by the way, for $5 a month and higher patrons, we will be sending out the Collector’s Club stickers in the next few weeks, I think. I actually just got a notification this morning that the stickers have shipped and are on their way to us, so can’t wait to see those and can’t wait to get them out to everybody. You can also support us on Apple Podcasts for just $2.99 a month. You can receive ad-free and early access to MuggleCast right within the Apple Podcast app. If you’re enjoying MuggleCast and think other Muggles would too, tell a friend about the show, and we would also appreciate if you left us a review in your favorite podcast app. And don’t forget to follow us on social media; our username is @MuggleCast on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, TikTok, and Threads. Summer, thanks so much for joining us today. You were awesome.

Summer: Thank you so much for having me. Thank you. I had a fantastic time, and so glad I got to start off Goblet of Fire with all of y’all.

Andrew: Yes. Another exciting Chapter by Chapter series is ahead. All right, well, that does it for this week’s episode. Thanks, everybody for listening. I’m Andrew.

Eric: I’m Eric.

Micah: I’m Micah.

Laura: I’m Laura.

Summer: And I’m Summer.

Andrew: Bye, everybody.

Laura: Bye, y’all.

 

MuggleCast 629 Transcript

 

Transcript for MuggleCast Episode #629, ‘Goblet of Fire’ Movie Commentary Track!

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Andrew Sims: Hi, everyone. This episode was recorded on Friday, September 22, and since then, legendary actor Michael Gambon, who played Dumbledore in the last six Harry Potter movies, died on September 28. We will talk about his legacy on a future episode of MuggleCast, but we wanted to give you a heads-up that our thoughts on his portrayal in this movie were recorded prior to his passing. And Laura has an important reminder for everybody.

Laura Tee: Just wanted to give y’all a final reminder about the 2023 MuggleCast listener survey. This is your last week to complete the survey if you haven’t had a chance to so far. It will close end of day this Friday, October 6. Again, we want to know what you love about the show, what you think we could be doing better, and what other content you’d be interested in us branching out to into the future. We’re also asking anyone who supports us on our Patreon about y’all’s experience so that we can continue to improve on the content that we’re providing over there, and the survey is open to everyone whether you’re a Patreon supporter or not. Again, you can find links to it through our website, our show notes, and across our various social media channels. Thank you again so much to everyone who’s completed the survey so far, and thanks in advance to anyone who’s able to get their response in before October 6. We really couldn’t do the show without y’all.

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Show Intro

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[Show music plays]

Andrew: Welcome to MuggleCast, your weekly right into the wizarding world fandom. I’m Andrew.

Eric Scull: I’m Eric.

Micah Tannenbaum: I’m Micah.

Laura: And I’m Laura.

Andrew: We have a special episode for everybody today. We have yet to do this. It was released 18 years ago, and we’re finally getting around to doing it: our Goblet of Fire movie commentary.

Everyone: Woo!

Andrew: This is partly to get us all on the same page for our Goblet of Fire Chapter by Chapter series, which will kick off next week, actually. And this is going to be great, probably for listeners too, because inevitably, when we’re doing Chapter by Chapter, we bring up the movie! So we’re going to go in having just watched the film, and we’ll be ready to talk about it over the next billion weeks as we go chapter by chapter through Goblet of Fire because last time I checked, there are about a billion chapters. So for those listening, we will not be playing the audio from the movie; you have to bring your own copy of the movie to this commentary track, so maybe pause now and go find a copy of Goblet of Fire. This is the standard edition, no advertising either, so if you if you want to watch it through HBO Max, for example, you can’t watch it with the ad tier; you’re probably going to fall out of sync with us. So where to sync up with us so we all are watching the same thing at the same time? Hit play on the movie, and then once the camera goes fully through the WB logo, that’s when you hit pause, and that’s where Eric, Micah, Laura, and I are all paused right now on our own copies. So again, once the camera is fully through the WB logo, hit pause. For me on my digital edition, that’s at the 19 second mark of this movie. You will see a skull. And maybe if you feel like it’s a little out of sync for you, then you can back up and try again. But this isn’t going to be a perfect sync; it might be off by a second or two, but that’s okay. It’s kind of impossible to time this perfectly. Even the four of us won’t be timed perfectly, probably. [laughs]

Laura: No, I know, because as soon as you said there’s going to be a skull, I was like, “Well, I don’t have a skull.”

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Eric: No, it’s me, you guys. I’m here. Hello.

Andrew: Oh, I get it. Once you see the Eric Scull. That’s when you’re at the right point.

Eric: Yes, yes.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: But let’s get started because we have much a motion picture to get through, to watch and enjoy, over the next two and a half hours. So on 3! On 3! We’re all going to hit play.

Micah: On 3?

Eric: On 3, not the imaginary fourth beat?

Laura: Oh, wait, wait, wait.

Micah: What?

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: You have the wrong movie up. Tell me you have the wrong movie up.

Eric: What happened?

Micah: That’s why you didn’t see the skull.

Laura: Yeah, no, I totally had Order of the Phoenix.

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Andrew: Laura!

Eric: It would have been funny. We would have seen how many minutes in she got before she’s like, “Wait a minute, what?”

Andrew: It would have been like 30 seconds, I bet, or maybe even less, like 10 seconds.

Laura: [laughs] So sorry for this delay.

Eric: Look for the skull. Wait for the skull.

Andrew: You know, we all have shots ready, and I think Laura maybe took hers a little early.

Laura: Yeah, okay. No, no, I definitely did not as a matter of fact.

Andrew: So while Laura gets the movie ready and while everybody gets their movie all synched up…

Laura: I’m ready.

Andrew: Okay. All right. So on 3, we are going to press play. 1, 2, 3.

Laura: All right.

---

Frank Bryce and the Riddle House

---

Andrew: And Laura, you’re seeing Goblet of Fire, not Chamber of Secrets, Prisoner, Order…?

Laura: I am seeing skulls and Nagini, so I think I’m in the right place.

Andrew: Oh, that was your dreams last night, Laura. We’re talking about the movie right now.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Andrew: All right. Well, now that the film has rolled, maybe we should share because this is only about a half hour away. What shot did we bring for the commentary? A shot of alcohol, and we did this because of course in this movie there’s that iconic line: “Did you put your name in the Goblet of Fire? Did ya put your name in the Goblet of Fire?” Dumbledore said not so calmly. So because it’s such an iconic moment in the history of the Harry Potter fandom, we thought we should have a shot ready for that?

Eric: See, I misheard what the directive was. I thought we were waiting for the actual calmest line delivery in the movie, and we each take shots at different moments depending on what we think the calmest line is because it sure as shit ain’t “Did you put your name in the Goblet of Fire?” Sorry, are we allowed to swear?

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: Anyway, it’s unhinged. It’s Friday night.

Andrew: It is. But yeah, so I have Gray Whale gin. It’s a favorite gin of mine.

Eric: Looks like Frank Bryce is preparing something.

Andrew: [laughs] He was like, “Wait, what? I want in.”

Laura: I have Angel’s Envy, which is a Kentucky bourbon that is aged in wine barrels, so it’s got a very nice flavor.

Andrew: Very nice.

Micah: Do you think they repurposed the maze for what he’s walking through right now?

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Eric: I think so. He’s got to watch out for the branches.

Laura: That’s so funny.

Andrew: Some budget cuts.

Micah: I have Powers Iris whiskey.

Andrew: Okay.

Eric: And I have an old standby, Woodford Reserve rye.

Andrew: Everybody’s got something a little fancy!

Eric: A little fancy. I just have this around the house.

Micah: Go big or go home.

Eric: Yeah, we never would have done this if we did a Goblet of Fire commentary in 2005.

Micah: Yes, we would have. We just wouldn’t have advertised it publicly.

[Everyone laughs]

Micah: This would all be sitting here bathtub in a hotel room somewhere.

Eric: Would you guys want to live in the Riddle house? These wood-paneled walls, sweeping staircases… kind of creepy.

Andrew: Absolutely positively not. I get scared very easily. I mean, I love this type of thing for Halloween season, but yeah, no. I also have on closed captioning to help with today’s commentary because between here and y’all…

Micah: I think it’s necessary.

Andrew: It is.

Laura: I agree.

Andrew: There’s lot of talk about that, too, on the Internet. It’s getting harder to hear movies.

Eric: Yeah, there’s that Scooby-Doo image, I think it’s Velma. She’s on the ground looking for glasses, but it says, “I can’t hear without my subtitles.”

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Laura: Yeah, that’s relatable.

Micah: I want to say, I’m fairly impressed that Frank Bryce is not totally freaked out yet.

Eric: Well, he was expecting children. Turns out… oh man.

Laura: I really love that they kept that in the movie.

Eric: Which?

Laura: The whole Frank Bryce introduction.

Eric: There was a lot they didn’t keep, though. He didn’t hear the whole plot.

Laura: Right.

---

The Quidditch World Cup

---

Eric: It reeks to me of the bare minimum because you need to see Barty Crouch once before you see him at the end. Harry is already at the Quidditch World Cup.

Micah: I love how Ron pulls up the sheets as if he’s covering his boobs.

Eric: I sleep like that.

Laura: [laughs] Well yeah, they’re trying to communicate that he’s starting to catch feelings. He’s self-conscious.

Eric: This is a great moment in the book, the Portkey. He’s always hanging out in trees.

Micah: No matter the franchise.

Laura: Well, he’s not sparkly in this one.

Eric: Well, that’s as good an entrance as any.

Laura: My favorite effect is about to come up where they’re arriving at the World Cup from the Portkey, and Cedric and two others just come fluttering down. [laughs] I think it’s so hilarious.

Eric: Like they can choose it. Like they can choose their landing.

Andrew: I’m going to say something people probably aren’t going to like: I have never really been a fan of the Quidditch World Cup in the book or movie.

Laura: Oh, I loved it in the book.

Andrew: I guess maybe part of me just flashes back to reading this the first time, and I was just like, “I’d rather be at Hogwarts than at this thing.”

Eric: I think for me, it’s an opportunity for world building without stakes being super high. I mean, they do get high with a Death Eaters later, but you get to see all these cultures and kind of…

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Andrew: That’s such a tacky shot.

Micah: Are those the Cliffs of Moher? Or not?

Eric: They’re Dover, maybe.

Andrew: Robert Pattinson was practicing his tacky flying through the air for Twilight in that shot.

Eric: Amazing.

Micah: But come on Andrew. Sports, bro.

Andrew: Spider monkey! Yeah, exactly, like Paraiso Flower said.

Eric: I think they filmed Broadchurch over by those cliffs.

Micah: Oh, there goes the house-elves.

Andrew: Blink and you’ll miss ’em.

Eric: I do like the low flying broom people. That’s fun.

Andrew: That is cool.

Laura: I do feel like they captured the environment of the Quidditch World Cup really well. This is very close to what I imagined when I was reading it.

Eric: I agree.

Andrew: It is exciting.

Micah: But I forget, Laura, do you know how many chapters about the Quidditch World Cup takes up in Goblet of Fire? It’s more than we think, right?

Laura: Yeah. They don’t spend all that much time on it in the movie.

Eric: There’s the line I’m drinking to. Hang on. It’s about to get it… not the “Feet off the table.” Not that one.

Andrew: Oh, “I love magic.”

Eric: “I love magic!” There we go. Who doesn’t love magic?

Micah: Cheese.

Andrew: What you were just saying, Laura, I think that was part of the reason why I was turned off by it when reading, because it’s longer in the book.

Micah: It’s like camping.

Eric: I gotta get my trusty Fantastic Beasts stopwatch out and figure out how much gameplay we actually see. I’m going to time this.

Andrew: And understandably so that it moves so quick in the movie.

Eric: Oh, Jason Isaacs!

Laura: Aw man, he’s my favorite.

Eric: I missed Jason Isaacs in Harry Potter all throughout the third movie, and I’m so glad he’s back.

Micah: I love how he says, “Don’t boast,” but he just made his rain comment.

Laura: He’s so good. I know that Jason Isaacs did play Captain Hook, but I will say sometimes his portrayal of Lucius gives me Captain Hook vibes.

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Eric: Fair enough.

Laura: And it’s not a bad thing, it’s just funny.

Eric: Yeah, I mean, Jason Isaacs is famous for villains.

Laura: Oh, yeah.

Micah: And these actually are really good seats. No?

Andrew: Oh, I see what you’re saying.

Eric: Micah, you’re the sports guy. What do you think one of those seats would fetch in today’s economy?

Micah: Well, this is an international event, right? That doesn’t happen very often. So even though I’m inclined to say because they’re so high up that they would be cheap, I don’t know. A couple 100 euros.

Eric: Yeah, so kinda like not a cheap seat in the house? And they’ll always sell out no matter what. Very aggressive.

Laura: I just have to say, this stadium makes my anxiety triggered, I think because it looks so steep.

Eric: Yeah, this is the thing you pay to go see in Chicago where you go out on the glass ledge and you can look below you, the ledge at the Sears Tower. That’s what this is. That’s what Fudge is standing on.

Laura: Awful.

Eric: That was actually a good shot. Everything tracking wise, on Robert Hardy, I think his name is.

Laura: Oh, and hey, look, no game.

Eric: Oh, 3.48 seconds. He said, “Let it begin,” and then it was something else.

Laura: I guess we can’t hold it against Hogwarts Legacy. They didn’t even want to do Quidditch in the movies sometimes.

Eric: At least they didn’t over-promise and under-deliver.

Laura: Right.

Micah: Is that Ginny’s one line in the movie?

[Laura laughs]

Eric: Yeah, blink and you’ll miss it.

Andrew: When we were hanging out with our patrons the other day in our Slug Club hangout, we were talking, I think, a little bit about how I remember it being reported that WB was seriously considering splitting this movie into two. Right?

Eric: Yeah, it was definitely the first time they really, really thought about it.

Andrew: Right.

Eric: They should have. I think it really would have been an improvement. You could have even retconned, you could have explained the Marauders even though that technically is Book 3 stuff. You could have made up for Movie 3’s failings, and shortcomings, I should say, if you had split the fourth one.

Micah: I never really liked how this all played itself out because it would be so easy for somebody to find Harry. Am I the only one?

Eric: No, you’re right. It’s definitely so easy.

Andrew: So easy?

Micah: Yeah, once he gets kicked in the face here.

Laura: [laughs] And they’re like, “Oh, yep, round glasses, scar…”

Micah: All these people are running around him and none of the Death Eaters come across him. Even before Barty Crouch, Jr. shows up.

Eric: Well, they burned it down.

Laura: Is that how it happens in the book? Does Harry get knocked out? I don’t remember.

Eric: I think there is a lapse in time. They get separated and they’re all looking for each other. I will say, this scene in the LEGO game slaps. This level of the LEGO game where everything’s on fire and you’re at the campground. It’s one of the better levels.

Laura: Oh, is David Tennant not doing the weird tick thing yet?

Andrew: We wait with anticipation.

Micah: Oh, now they show up. How convenient.

Eric: Confirmed, David Tennant is scared of redheads. “Not a ginger.” Oh man. Harry’s scar hurts for… oh, okay. Hello, Aurors. Thanks, Hermione, for not explaining anything.

Laura: [laughs] Is that another line they took from another character?

Eric: I bet, yeah.

Laura: That didn’t sound very convincing, Harry.

Micah: No, it didn’t.

Laura: Like, “Oh, uh, over there…”

Eric: “I saw your son tonight, Barty.”

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: “I only saw his tongue.” Okay, a little ominous, a little foreboding.

---

Beauxbatons and Durmstrang arrive

---

Eric: Oh, they’re leaving Hogwarts. [laughs] Doesn’t the train usually go the other way?

Laura: I will say, I feel like I’m remembering one of my main critiques of this movie, which is that the transitions feel very choppy.

Andrew: Do you think that’s partly because they have so much to cram in?

Laura: Yes, 100%.

Eric: I think it’s also because we know what goes between the scenes. I think for the average movie goer, it’s probably fine.

Laura: Yeah, I’m sure it is.

Eric: People who don’t know the Quidditch World Cup wasn’t hours before the train to Hogwarts. But otherwise, I completely agree.

Micah: Oh, yeah.

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Eric: We were all thinking it. Micah said it.

Andrew: What I’m thinking is it’s so cool that you get to be on this train now in Universal. And they did it perfectly. It’s wild that they actually let you go on this train there. [laughs]

Eric: It’s really cool. It’s a shame Emma Watson couldn’t make it. But other than that…

Andrew: Ah, for the narration, the video you’re referring to?

Laura: Well, Dan didn’t either, right?

Eric: He at least get a sound alike.

Andrew: Yeah, just the person they got to play Hermione was not a good choice

Laura: No. Although, I felt like the person they got to play Hermione sounded maybe a little bit more like… shoot.

Micah: Isn’t that where Dumbledore is buried?

Laura: Yeah, I think so.

Andrew: I think that’s right, yeah.

Eric: Not yet, but yeah.

[Everyone laughs]

Laura: Too soon.

Eric: Unless he’s time traveling.

Micah: You know that guy. You never know.

Laura: I thought she sounded a lot like the Jim Dale interpretation of Hermione.

Eric: Oh! I wonder if they got Jim Dale to do it.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Oh my gosh.

Laura: They were like, “Do you just want to play the shadow too? We’ll just get you in there.” Wow, we’re already off. Here they come. Hagrid!

Micah: Air traffic control Hagrid.

Eric: Add that to his CV.

Andrew: I do love that shot, though. I think that’s fun.

Eric: It’s a cool shot.

Micah: It is well done. I wonder if he was drunk.

Eric: Who’s driving that carriage?

Micah: I think the person driving the carriage is drunk.

Eric: Yeah, I was going to say, it’s hard to believe it’s the best and brightest in there.

Andrew: The best and brightest.

Laura: Is this the first movie in the series where we really started getting very tonally dark?

Eric: Uh, yeah. I mean, I really argue that Azkaban holds that, but yeah, it’s next to impossible to see some of these shots.

Andrew: [laughs] Classic Filch moment as well.

Eric: Why?

Andrew: Look at all these long-haired students.

Micah: The dude can barely breathe. Get him a Stairmaster or something he can use on the side.

Andrew: Is he not climbing stairs every day at Hogwarts?

Micah: I mean, but he needs help.

Laura: Listen, he may come across as pathetic and defenseless here, but we know for a fact that he murdered two very prominent Starks, so don’t underestimate him.

Andrew: Oooh.

Eric: Yeah, and he did it without ever getting up from a chair.

Laura: Right.

Micah: Well, three if you count the baby that was on the way.

Eric: Oh, that is too soon.

Laura: And the baby who was going to be called at Eddard. Yikes. So, interesting change here, them making Beauxbatons and Durmstrang just single-gender schools. In the books, they weren’t.

Eric: Right, and Chloé had a good point about this in our meeting recently too, that it diminishes…

Laura: Oh, they fart butterflies. [laughs]

Eric: Yeah, wow, totally remember that in the books.

Micah: Wait, you don’t, Laura?

Laura: Wait, what?

Micah: Fart butterflies?

Laura: No, I don’t. You can ask Marc. He’ll confirm. I definitely don’t. [laughs]

Eric: I would like a cannon movie explanation for why Gabrielle and Olympe are dressed differently, but everyone else is in blue, but oh well.

Andrew: I’ve always loved these entrances.

Eric: I mean, they’re momentous.

Andrew: Right. And the music.

Eric: Yeah, the score is actually really good this whole movie. It’s one of the best scores.

Andrew: Of course, they brought this over to the theme park, these little shows, these entrances.

Eric: I feel bad for the floor.

Laura: I like how Krum is just like, “I don’t have to be part of the performance.” [laughs] I wonder how long they practiced.

Micah: Now, was that a phoenix to honor Dumbledore?

Eric: Oh, maybe.

Micah: Meanwhile, my guy can’t even get a chariot or anything to take him to Hogwarts. He’s just slogging through the mud.

Eric: I feel like Brendan Gleeson would walk to Hogwarts.

Laura: He’s like, “Don’t worry, I got ’em covered.” Same.

Eric: Wonder who could outdrink the other.

Laura: Or death.

Eric: [laughs] I mean, look at ice cream. That ice cream is stacked so tall.

Andrew: It’s incredible.

Laura: Yeah, the desserts are unparalleled.

Eric: I bet the second you take one of those scoops, it replenishes.

Andrew: Totally. Thank you, house-elves down below.

Laura: Yeah, all because there’s some poor house-elf waiting below in the kitchens just being like, “Ugh.”

Andrew: But we won’t learn about him in this movie. Oh!

Laura: “House-elves? What elves?”

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Why does the Hogwarts ceiling suddenly deliver plot information to us?

Laura: So that we can all sit here and go, “That’s suspicious.”

Eric: I guess so.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Andrew: The people who haven’t read the book: “That sure is suspicious.”

Micah: Or were not invented until Goblet of Fire.

Eric: Right.

Andrew: Look at McGonagall being all nervous to hype up the fear.

Eric: Yeah, that’s definitely what’s happening. 100%. If you get McGonagall to gasp, you know you’d better watch out. Where’s his chair? They knew he was coming. Maybe it’s bubble juice.

Laura: Let’s make it really clear.

Micah: Early on. Now, what was the reason for portraying Barty Crouch, Sr. this way? Is he just nervous?

Eric: You know, add that to the list of things to ask the director. But yeah, I mean, both Crouch, Sr., and Bagman, who’s not in this movie at all, were very differently characterized in the book. And Barty Crouch, Sr., though he’s not necessarily a good character, made some really important choices that later blow up in his face and you don’t really get that.

Laura: Yeah, I don’t know if they were trying to go for him being kind of broken because of everything that happened with his son. Maybe they were choosing that interpretation.

Eric: I like that.

Laura: Because what parent wouldn’t be completely shaken to their core to find out that their child is basically a fascist of some sort?

Eric: Fair enough. Nowadays, a lot of parents are accusing their kids of joining cults. Oh no, I’m sure this is aboveboard.

Laura: Hey, speaking of cults, he was in one.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Yeah! And yet Dumbledore embraced him moments ago and was like, “Igor, old friend.”

Eric: Four if you count your mother.

---

Defense Against the Dark Arts

---

Andrew: I do love this performance. It’s such a good performance.

Laura: He’s great.

Eric: It’s really good, yeah. If you’ve seen Brendan Gleeson do other stuff, it’s crazy because he’s also so good in that but it’s different.

Andrew: Yeah. It’s just one of those… and I hate to be the Hollywood person who’s like, “This performance in this movie is just amazing,” but some performances just stick with you and this is one of them.

Eric: It’s visceral! He threw the chalk.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Andrew: And with the magical eye and the scar, it’s just like, oh yeah.

Eric: Yeah, whoever animated the eye was not the same person that did Dobby because it’s so much better.

Andrew: Yeah.

[Eric and Micah laugh]

Micah: And is this fully replicated in the books too? Because we know Ron’s fear of spiders.

Eric: He does show them, yeah, each of the curses, but…

Laura: I don’t remember what he uses them on, though.

Micah: Is that even a spider?

Eric: I’ve always wondered that. That is more like a…

Micah: It’s gross, whatever the hell it is.

Eric: Oh, poor Crabbe. If I had one of those land on my head, it would lead me to smoking.

Laura: This is so good.

Eric: I love the mime hitting where like, they couldn’t actually hit each other. The music here again…

Laura: This was so well written. Good grief.

Eric: Is this the one movie that Steve Kloves didn’t do?

Andrew: I thought it was Movie 5.

Eric: Oh, you’re probably right, because that was David Yates’s first movie and he brought on a guy he had worked with before.

Andrew: Oh, did he? That was why?

Eric: Yeah, they had worked together exclusively as a writer and director team.

Andrew: I see.

Eric: I think that’s right. I’ll look that up.

Micah: Yeah, was it Mike Goldenberg?

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah, that does sound right. Do you guys remember one of my biggest mistakes on MuggleNet?

Eric: No. I’m sure you’re going to tell us.

Andrew: I’m trying to remember. I just remember it was a big mistake. I think I misreported something about Michael Goldenberg or something like that. Whatever I did, I screwed up bad. Like, it was just wrong news-wise.

Eric: Oh, no.

Andrew: And I remember WB being really mad at me. The publicist I worked with was not happy with me. So what they did to respond to whatever the screw-up was – I really wish I remembered – was they had Michael Goldenberg do an interview with the Leaky Cauldron. [laughs]

Eric: Oh no!

Andrew: To set the record straight. Do you remember that? And I remember being on vacation at the time, and I was just like.. it ruined the vacation. I was just so embarrassed that I’d screwed up.

Eric: Andrew, I forgive you.

Andrew: Oh, thank you. I can finally find peace.

Eric: That’s ridiculous. I can’t believe they did that. But okay, Michael Goldenberg, who wrote the Green Lantern film with Ryan Reynolds, okay, also wrote the Peter Pan with Jason Isaacs, hello, as Captain Hook, Laura.

Laura: Connecting the threads.

Eric: And he wrote Contact, which is probably the best movie. Jodie Foster, Matthew McConaughey. It’s incredible. That redeems him for me.

Laura: There it is.

Micah: Does your soul rip when you kill a spider?

Eric: No, that’s not the same. I think it’s human souls.

Laura: Right, only human souls matter, Micah.

Eric: Basically. I like the Escher-esque stairs in the back. They go up the other direction.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Oh, Neville. Never going to be the same.

Micah: This is where Luna yells at Harry later on in the series. I don’t think they ever did a very good job, though, of explaining how messed up this actually was. I mean, we do get the trial flashback in the Pensieve a little bit later on, but it’s just not overly explained the level to which it’s messed up.

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: Right. And in the books, even though this scene in the movie that we just saw where Moody comes and gets Neville is like, sort of tender? In the book, Barty Crouch, Jr. really does guide and mentor Neville and Harry. It’s a big deal that the first person to ever tell Harry he should catch Dark wizards was a Dark wizard. I would actually argue that in the book, his motives and loyalties are a lot more nuanced than they are in the movie. I don’t know if you guys would agree.

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: Yeah, I’m excited to read the book through that lens because it’s been a while since I’ve read Goblet.

---

The Goblet of Fire

---

Eric: Same, I’m looking so forward to it. All right, whose hair is longer right now? Hermione’s or the twins’?

Andrew: [laughs] It’s got to be Hermione, but I like the joke.

Eric: Only because hers is curled. Yeah, so if she straightened it…

Micah: It’s close.

Andrew: Yeah, exactly. Because it’s curly, I think that she’s got the upper hand.

Eric: Yeah, if you straighten it, it will be longer.

Laura: Yeah. They’re not too far behind her, though.

Andrew: We’re getting close, aren’t we? To the moment? You said it’s at 35 minutes in; we’re currently at 30.

Eric: Yeah, it’s going to be Halloween. It’s going to be Halloween in like, three seconds, and then…

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: And then there’s going to be another Quidditch World Tournament and then we’re going to be back.

Eric: This is fun.

Micah: Now whose hair is longer?

Eric: Oh, that’s fun. Whose beard was longer?

Micah: Do you all remember, there’s a really great story from… I think it was the reunion special with Mike Newell. I forget which twin told the story or if it was Mike himself, where he really had to show them how to fight each other.

[Eric laughs]

Laura: Oh, yeah.

Micah: And I think he ended up breaking his ankle or there was… he had some serious injury as a result of that.

Eric: You can just tell that he was very hands-on with the actors. Because there’s a moment where Snape just thwacks Harry and gives him a concussion with a book for no reason in this movie. That happens in this movie.

Micah: Oh, he bruised his ribs. That’s what the Discord is saying.

Laura: Snape does a lot of things for no reason.

Eric: Yeah, but that’s no excuse. This movie, he is absolutely unhinged. Book Snape would never.

Andrew: We also need to remember something, and that’s that we had heard over… I can’t remember when, but we heard that Mike Knoll was not a good director to the cast.

Eric: Oh, I didn’t… really?

Andrew: Yeah, didn’t we hear that?

Laura: Yeah, I think I remember hearing that he wasn’t anyone’s fave.

Eric: Oh man.

Andrew: I just vaguely remember him being really hard on the kids? Here I go again misreporting things. Here comes another exclusive with the Leaky Cauldron. [laughs] No, I’m kidding, but really, I really do remember that.

Eric: I just remember they were really excited because it was the first British director which, hello, you’re on Movie 4?

Micah: Oh, please. The cast was all British. Mostly.

Eric: Yeah, I know. What is that written on?

Micah: It looks like a mini hand fan almost. They’re all very specific to the school, except Hogwarts.

Eric: Just a piece of parchment.

Micah: [laughs] It’s just a piece of parchment.

Eric: There’s nothing more Hogwarts than hard work.

Micah: I like what Court said, it appears to be a coffee filter.

Eric: Oh, that’s right.

Laura: Dumbledore in this moment is like, “Oh, thank God Harry’s name didn’t come out of the Goblet.”

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: Why does it say “WIZ”? Oh, “TRI” is on one side, “WIZ” is on the other, and “ARD” is on the other. This has never happened before.

Micah: I hate those hand motions in front of his face. They’re so stupid. Sorry for being critical.

Eric: Well, the thing is, every director had a chance with these movies to put their own spin on the series, so you don’t have the level of consistency between films that you will with the TV show.

Andrew: Ugh, let’s hope. I mean, that’s a 10-year project.

Eric: Yeah, but they’re going to lock that crap down. They’re going to have everybody picked for directing for years in advance, because the quality suffers when…

Micah: Aw, emo Ron.

Laura: The hair just goes so well with the emo state.

Eric: I agree with that.

Laura: I love how… [laughs] We’ll have to compare this to book Dumbledore.

Eric: There are no words. He’s so pissed that he doesn’t say anything. And he glares.

Micah: Right, like Harry did it.

Laura: Oh my God.

Eric: Cool tracking shot, though, of the students.

Micah: So why isn’t it renamed the Quadwizard Tournament? It doesn’t make sense.

Andrew: Ooh! Because this isn’t going to happen again, that’s why.

Micah: Yeah, that’s true.

Laura: Moody is like, “Yeahhh.”

Micah: He’s like, “I did it, I did it…”

Eric: All right, everybody, pour your shots.

Andrew: I did, and my drink, the ice has already melted. It’s all ruined.

Eric: Oh, I’m sorry, Andrew.

Laura: See, Andrew, that’s why you have to get the rocks. That’s what I have in mine. [laughs] Here it comes.

Andrew: Whoo! Drink!

Micah: All right, cheers.

[Glasses clink]

Andrew: Cheers to Michael Gambon. And whoever wrote that line. “Angrily.”

Eric: If Harry were holding a shot right then at that moment, it would be all over the floor. I don’t think you can… you just go up and put the name in, don’t you? That’s it. The goblet takes it from there.

Micah: Oooh.

Eric: That was dark.

Laura: And see, it’s so funny how layered all of this is with Barty Crouch, Jr. because in that moment, he’s on the surface, reminding Karkaroff that “Hey, everyone knows that you used to be a Death Eater.” But really ,what he’s saying is “You betrayed Voldemort. And I’m gonna get you.”

Eric: That’s amazing.

Micah: That shot?

Eric: Yeah, that was a great Caption Contest week when I screenshotted that. There was one recently with Amos and Harry and the top caption was, “Harry, get in my backpack” because it’s so big. Oh, there’s that level in Hogwarts Legacy, the best part of the top tower.

Andrew: I always love these scenes where all the staff are involved too. Just watching all the adult actors work with each other, like when we were…

Eric: This is acting.

Andrew: Right, this is acting.

Eric: With a capital A.

Andrew: [laughs] When we were getting towards the end of Prisoner of Azkaban Chapter by Chapter, I think I said on air, I still remember leaning forward in my seat watching Prisoner of Azkaban for the first time, being so excited seeing Alan Rickman and David Thewlis and Gary Oldman working together, and really, the trio took a backseat. And for at least a few minutes, it was really focused on the adult actors, and I just loved that.

Eric: That’s a great point.

Laura: I just want to call out McGonagall here mentioning, “We can’t just let him compete. He’s not a piece of meat.” And Dumbledore is over there like, “Well… I don’t know about that.”

Eric: I can’t wait to get to that chapter in the book because they say the Goblet of Fire is a magically binding contract, but Harry ultimately did not put his own name in. So I don’t care how many Confunduses you throw at that thing. The fact that you can’t get out of it is BS. Between that and the second task where they may or may not have actually killed Harry’s friends… it’s a real thin plot sometimes.

Eric: Go cry about it, Ron. Oh, good comeback, good comeback.

Laura: Ooh, naughty word. You can tell they’re teenagers now.

Andrew: And whenever they say bad words, or when in Harry Potter we get “Not my daughter, you bitch…” Oh, look at who it is!

Eric: Look at her chew the scenery.

Andrew: But then when parents say like, “Hey, I don’t think that you cursed on the show,” I was like, “But they said that word! So we’re allowed to.”

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

---

Rita Skeeter

---

Andrew: Oh, let’s talk about this set that they’re at right now. This is probably… I think Eric joked about a repurposed set at the top of the movie. This set has been repurposed like no other. It was the Room of Requirement, it’s the Trophy Room…

Eric: This becomes the Room of Requirement!

Andrew: I feel like there’s one other. I’m trying to remember. But I just remember this…

Micah: Well, wasn’t it just the Trophy Room? Or is it still the Trophy Room?

Eric: And it’s the Slug Club hangout.

Andrew: This is the Trophy Room.

Eric: It’s the dining room for the Slug Club, where Neville serves drinks. You can tell by the half columns. Yeah, Miranda Richardson is insanely good. And even she manages to be shortchanged, I think, by the scripts. There is a lot more to her, obviously, in the books, but I would give this an eight out of ten pass for character adaptation.

Micah: Yeah, it’s very impressive, the actors who join the cast in this film.

Eric: Even just for one-offs. I want whatever that material is that she’s wearing. It’s like a velvet, but it’s like a satiny kind of… it’s really cool.

Eric: A little bit of, dare I say, the S word tension here between the two of them.

Micah: I think that’s part of her shtick, though.

Eric: Yeah, to be a little flirty.

Micah: She’s very flirtatious.

Eric: That’s a good point.

Laura: She really embodies this, and it’s such a disappointment that they didn’t do anything else with this character after this movie.

Eric: Yeah. I could see her being superimposed onto something during Movie 7 with the “Life and Lies” book haunting Harry. Like if she does like an interview or something and it’s posted in Times Square – or sorry, Piccadilly Circus. Good use of that full-scale model of Hogwarts.

Andrew: You know what, and I’ve said this before, even about Movie 1, it still holds up. These visual effects, all of them. And I don’t know if it’s because… I guess it’s the money they put into it. I mean, obviously, it looks amazing here. But I mean, even with Movie 1, all the special effects, they really do not feel dated to me. Maybe just because we grew up with these movies… I don’t know. I’ve always been really impressed.

Eric: Fun fact, it actually took 18 months for all the bird droppings to be gathered and placed here.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: I hate bringing up the Wizarding World so much, but they did a great job with the owlery. Down to the bird droppings. That’s what made me want to say that.

Eric: Remember when you used to be able to actually send a letter from the theme park? And it would be owl stamped or whatever. I never actually utilized that, but it was a pretty cool feature at the time. Damn, he’s bleeding.

Laura: Yeah, why is that owl such a jerk?

Micah: I think the owl actually did bite him.

Eric: The owl actually took Hedwig’s lines, because Hedwig is always nipping on Harry.

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Laura: They took all of Hedwig’s good lines gave them to this owl.

Andrew: Teenage tragedy.

Eric: Good old MinaLima really coming into prominence, in advance of the educational decrees in the next.

Andrew: Oh, that’s an interesting point. I mean, they’ve been involved with all the movies, but I guess they really started standing out with all the newspapers and the signage.

Eric: No, that’s exactly it. Yeah. I think they did do even the Hogwarts letter, the first Hogwarts letter in the first movie.

---

Sirius in the fire

---

Laura: Oh, here’s your favorite CG, Andrew, that really doesn’t hold up.

Andrew: Oh, I spoke too soon, didn’t I? This never held up, from day one.

Eric: No, you’re right. You’re right. It doesn’t. For what this cost to do in CGI, they could have flown Gary Oldman here, had him stay in the best hotel in England, and had him just be part of the site.

Andrew: It was just a very bad choice. That’s what this comes down to. They decided “We’re going to have his face sort of…” It’s almost like… I don’t know what the toy is called, but you put your hand into the thing with all the spikes, and then you look at it on the other side. It’s like that.

Eric: Yeah, it’s like, magic something something. Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. Well, the thing is, in this book doesn’t somebody forget their coffee and Molly Weasley puts it through the fire and gives them a sip of the coffee or something? It’s so much cooler even in the book.

Micah: Does that happen in the first chapter with the Dursleys?

Eric: I think it’s when they’re first finding out about Aurors and Mad-Eye. At the Burrow, whoever is telling the Weasleys about Mad-Eye is given a biscuit or something extra from Molly. Listeners, correct me if I’m wrong.

Micah: The Other Minister is saying that she feeds someone toast.

Eric: Yeah, there you go. Well, Gary Oldman in this scene is all toast.

Andrew: [laughs] What would happen if you’d roasted marshmallows over top of him? Would it taste a little like him?

Eric: I wonder if he’d taste it.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Andrew: You’d stick it in his mouth. “Shut up, Sirius,” you stick the marshmallow down his mouth.

Micah: They did improve it for Order of the Phoenix, though, didn’t they?

Eric: Yeah, it’s more like your image, I think. I really do appreciate this moment in the book. There’s months of trying to catch up with Sirius and get one-on-one time with him, and it’s destroyed when Ron comes down and it feels like such a huge moment. They did it okay in the movie, but again, the buildup is great because Sirius is the only person Harry can confide in during this time. I don’t really think he spends a lot of time with Hermione.

---

Harry and Neville by the lake

---

Eric: Neville, you’re being interested in nature again.

Micah: I do love the Harry/Neville bonding.

Eric: Harry complains that Neville is excited about nature? That’s the bonding. This sells teenagers to me more than any other scene.

Laura: We’ve all had a moment like this, right?

Micah: I’m totally on Harry’s side here, though, because… yeah, see, she gets mad at Harry, but Harry’s not the one she should be getting mad at.

Eric: It’s nice that they brought Bonnie Wright along for this scene.

Laura: I know.

Eric: The idea that Hermione and Ron have replaced Harry in the trio by bringing Ginny in and Harry’s just found Neville. [laughs] Oh, the flower.

Laura: Ouch, Hagrid. Geez.

Eric: Man, what would this have been like if Charlie were here?

Andrew: [laughs] Little fun fact, when I was in TV tech, my TV tech teacher brought this up to me when he was talking about filming angles and whatnot, and you guys might know this, too, but I’ll just share it for the listeners. You’ll notice they always shoot Hagrid, and here with Madame Maxime, at a lower angle. And it’s always to make them look taller than they actually are. It just gives you the impression that they are taller than they actually are. And you’re also thinking about how you’re watching Hagrid from, really, a lot of the time, the trio’s point of view, who are, of course, significantly shorter.

Eric: The Discord really likes that fact, Andrew.

Andrew: Aww!

Eric: Yeah, it’s forced perspective. They do it in Lord of the Rings with Gandalf being so much taller than the Hobbits too.

Andrew: Right. Yeah, exactly.

Laura: I think they might have done some of those same angle tricks in some of these earlier movies because there was a period of time where Emma Watson was taller than Dan.

Eric: Yeah, they would have them stand on egg crates too. You can’t tell because it’s not a full body shot, but yeah.

Laura: I know, because girls can’t be taller than boys, even though at this age they usually are.

Eric: Yeah, except Ron is taller than anybody in the books.

Laura: Yeah. Not in the movies, though. Not movie Ron.

Andrew: Stephanie said, “Where’s Charlie? Yes. Hashtag where’s Charlie?

Eric: Charlie should be there subduing the dragon.

Eric: “Potter stinks.” Hey, listen, it’s just hygiene issues. There’s no bathrooms here. Come on, guys.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Aww, Hufflepuffs are dicks.

Andrew: And he is one, ladies and gentlemen.

Micah: Hope they enjoyed their two minutes of fame. And by that, I mean two seconds.

Eric: Yeah. I can appreciate that Cedric isn’t like the other Puffs, and he’s like, “You guys, come on.”

Micah: They’re friends; they went to the Quidditch World Cup together.

Andrew: Folks, there will be justice for Hufflepuffs in the TV show, I am confident.

Micah: They already got a whole movie series and they…

Andrew: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Laura: Well, that wasn’t Hufflepuff’s fault.

Micah: That’s true.

Andrew: And the reason I say that is because the Internet society was definitely more critical of Hufflepuff back in the day. It was just the running joke. And it still is, to an extent, as Micah is illustrating here. But now people accept Hufflepuffs as cool. And of course, they’re right.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Sorry, the gin is starting to hit. I’ll be honest. You think about the merchandise you see in stores now. Remember when it used to only be Gryffindor merchandise? That was it.

Eric: And Slytherin.

Andrew: All fans of Harry Potter just want to be Gryffindor because that’s where he is.

Eric: Or their enemy.

Andrew: [laughs] Or their enemy, yeah. But these days, you really do see all four Houses represented, and that’s great. It took them way too long to realize people actually identify with other Houses and to profit off of that. But they are now, and that’s why I think in the Harry Potter TV show, you’re going to see a lot less Hufflepuff hate even though the books are guilty of it too, from time to time. We’ve been calling it out in Chapter by Chapter. That’s a marketing opportunity.

Eric: I think it’s such a balanced thing because the reason that the Hufflepuff… as long as they take time to explain exactly what you said – I think it was Micah – that two seconds of fame for their guy… they’re just feeling that if Harry did cheat, he did it and it undermines the glory that they would have had. So yeah, they’re awful to him, and it’s not forgivable, but it is at least understandable.

Micah: Part of it is, I think that it took them so long to get a visual representation of a Hufflepuff or a Ravenclaw, right? Because we don’t really see Hufflepuff fully represented until Cedric comes along. We don’t see Ravenclaw really fully represented. You can throw Cho in there, but it’s really Luna, right? So you’re talking about not just them coming along in the books, but coming along in the movies, and you don’t get that until the mid 2000s.

Eric: Yeah, that’s fair. And then most of the time when they do Ravenclaw merch, it’s still got a friggin Raven on it instead of an eagle.

Laura: Oh my God, tell me about it. Ticks me off.

Eric: Real Ravenclaws, that has to really piss off.

Laura: It’s very irritating.

Eric: That’s a cool prop, I’ll just say, the leg. That’s really cool.

Andrew: It is, yeah.

Micah: Just like Cormoran Strike.

Andrew: [laughs] He’s terrifying.

Eric: Oh, that sounded kind of like Brendan Gleeson in that trunk.

Micah: What a contrast this is from when Harry was in Lupin’s office just a year prior. [laughs] The dude’s taking off his leg.

Eric: Well, and then Umbridge in the next… this is the same office with all the kitten posters. It’s supposed to be. I really do appreciate this.

Laura: He’s like, “Don’t make me spell it out for you, man. What are you good at?”

Eric: “I need you to survive so that you can die.”

Andrew: Ohh.

Eric: Cool. It’s just cool. That’s just very cool.

---

The first task

---

Andrew: Here we go, the Quadwizard Tournament. Very exciting. One year only.

Eric: Why is the stadium so far away from Hogwarts?

Andrew: For real.

Eric: Who’s getting up there? I’m taking my broom to get to the broom stadium.

Andrew: How do the competitors get there? They have to hike up a mountain? And compete?

Eric: Listen, it’s the stairs. It’s all those stairs. They trained well.

Andrew: I always really liked this “Potter” jacket too. I feel like I had it at some point…

Eric: Out of the New York shop, they do that those custom jerseys now where you get your name printed on, and I wanted to get one. This is a good shot.

Andrew: God, I really do not intend to, but I think they sell this flight outfit at the Wizarding World parks, or they did for a time.

Eric: I appreciate the photographer character.

Andrew: Justice for him. I hope he makes it to the TV show.

Eric: Same actor.

Micah: There’s Krum’s one line of the entire movie.

Eric: I do appreciate that he sees her for what she is.

Micah: Well yeah, that’s the only time he says anything. [laughs]

Eric: “Did you sneak into this tent?”

Laura: He’s like, “Miss Granger, did you put your name in the Goblet of Fire?”

Micah: Actually, there’s another great line coming from Barty Crouch, Sr.

Eric: Is it “Chinese fireball, oooh”?

Micah: It is, yeah.

Eric: I like the little puff of smoke that comes from the bag. That’s probably one of the coolest little effects.

Andrew: This is a fun little game scene exercise.

Eric: The dragon got an upgrade in the movie. In the book it’s the Common Welsh Green. There’s nothing common about this, we’re just going to call it Welsh Green.

Andrew: Do y’all ever think about how they’re going to have to redo all of this for the TV show?

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Eric: That’s why they can’t. They have to focus on the other stuff.

Andrew: This isn’t like… David Zaslav I think, or WB, was like, “This is a 10-year series.” No, this is 20 years. This is a 20-year series.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Laura: We’re all going to be in our 50s by the time they finish.

Andrew: Yeah, some of these scenes will just… they could be an episode on their own. There’s just so much to explore.

Eric: All right, now the dragon has woken up from a deep slumber. Oh yeah, I should have started the timer for how long we see other people’s tasks. Zero seconds.

Micah: Is this the same tent they used at the beginning of the movie?

Andrew: You’re hellbent on these repurposed sets.

Micah: I’ve got to imagine, right? From the Quidditch World Cup?

Laura: Yeah. Hey, I mean, given how much they had to spend on special effects, they probably were re-using sets.

Micah: I would, yeah.

Eric: Not to plug the Caption Contest again, but there’s one where I superimposed the Mario brothers in this arena.

Micah: Super Smash?

Eric: The live action with Bob Hoskins and John Leguizamo. It was really funny.

Micah: Did they repurpose the Quidditch World Cup for this scene? Or Quidditch?

Eric: The stands are reminiscent… oh, maybe.

Micah: From the first two films or three.

Andrew: That just reminded me we get a shirtless Harry scene in this movie.

Laura: Oh, that’s right.

Andrew: Which was a big deal to me at the time, and probably a lot of other people of course.

Micah: With a 40-year-old MILF next to him. We’ll talk about that.

Andrew: All right, I think we need to cut off Micah from the… are you still drinking, Micah?

Micah: No, I had like two sips.

Eric: We got another Maggie Smith gasping shot. Everybody’s little noisemakers and stuff is really cute.

Andrew: I wonder if they’ll do special episodes. You know how with Stranger Things there’s a 45-minute episode and then all of a sudden there’s an hour and 20 minute episode? I wonder if they’re going to do that with Harry Potter.

Eric: That’s a good point, not rope themselves into a minute count.

Andrew: Yeah, just like… only an hour per episode, sorry.

Eric: Yeah, if you look at even The Mandalorian, it’s doing anywhere from like a 35-minute episode to much longer. A lot of them are 50, but there have been short ones. Oh, and The Last of Us did that too. There was a really, really short episode. It’s because now that they don’t have commercial breaks in between the show, you don’t need to constrain it to fit the hour.

Micah: So I wasn’t a big fan of this scene; I don’t know how you all felt about it. Because this is not book canon.

Eric: Well, I can appreciate that the stakes seem high, and the view of the rooftop of Hogwarts is an area I would have always wanted to see, but logistically it’s a nightmare, right? Because it’s like, wouldn’t there be wizards whose job it is to go after the dragon? Like Charlie Weasley himself would be the one that has to like reign that guy in. I don’t know. This is just beyond the acceptable level of threat for Harry.

Micah: I mean, I understand why they did it for the purposes of a movie. It makes it way more exciting than what happens in the book.

Eric: I wish I could do this in Hogwarts Legacy.

Micah: Hey, you never know. There are dragons flying around.

Eric: I do really guy…

Laura: It’s giving Forbidden Journey.

Eric: I’m glad you pointed that out, Laura. It’s very much the same shot or same height.

Laura: See, this is how I know I’m an adult now, because I’m watching all of this damage be done to the shingles of Hogwarts castle, and being like, “Oh my god, how much it would cost to replace all of that…”

Micah: Well, Filch has to take care of it. I hope he likes heights.

Laura: [laughs] Probably. Man, Dumbledore did him dirty.

Micah: I guess there’s also the point if you went through the effort to create this dragon, then you need to do more than just have them square off in that little an arena.

Laura: True.

Micah: Oh, he’s going after the Elder Wand!

Laura: Wait, doos the dragon die in the movie? Do they kill off the dragon?

Eric: It was just trying to protect its baby. Dragon rights, y’all. Again, another boring task for everyone involved. Why is his broom steaming? Oh, I guess…

Laura: Because the dragon bit the end of it.

Eric: Right.

Laura: Wait, so the dragon just died? Is that what we’re supposed to think?

Eric: Yeah, and Harry got its baby.

Laura: That’s so messed up.

Eric: I appreciate that even the portraits are psyched right now.

Andrew: Yeah, I was just going to say that too. [laughs]

Micah: Kiss of the Irish.

Eric: This is very, like, Stanley Cup.

Laura: [laughs] I love the faces of these portraits.

Eric: Hogwarts is an auditory nightmare.

Micah: Dude, where were you? Bathroom?

Laura: He’s like, “Yeah, but man, you’re supposed to be my best mate. I don’t care what everyone else is doing.”

---

Yule Ball lead-up

---

Eric: I really appreciate the table placement settings. All the set dec.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: Spit take!

Andrew: Another iconic moment. “How much toast is on those tables?” John says. Not enough! I love toast. [laughs] “Me, myself, and I,” Rita Skeeter.

Laura: I had forgotten about Nigel. [laughs]

Micah: Do they have cereal boxes on the tables at Hogwarts?

Eric: Yeah, that was in the Exhibition. Micah, for how often you’ve been to the Exhibition, I’m surprised you don’t know this. They did cereal boxes.

Andrew: That’s a sore subject for me because when I was very fortunate to go to the Order of the Phoenix or the Half-Blood Prince set… I think it was the Half-Blood Prince set. There were multiple requests from the press to be able to film – just interviews, I think – and record, and they said, “There are so many people wanting to bring their own devices, we will record and film things for you.” And we thought, “Okay, great, that’s way easier.” Well, so they record the interviews for us and it’s great. Then we go into the Great Hall, and they’re like, “You guys can film stand ups, these little introduction videos for your own websites.” And so they let me hold a box of that darn cereal!

Eric: Oh my… so you have a picture of that?

Andrew: No! Let me finish this story. So I do my stand up. It’s great. Melissa from Leaky does it, other press that were there do it. We’re all so excited, right? We have video of us on the set. So cool, an active set. Well, they never gave us the video. Who knows why? It’s probably sitting in an archive somewhere. But it bothered me for so many years that they would not give us the video of us on the set because we of course thought it was the coolest thing. That is going to be a pro-shot video of us on the set.

Eric: Andrew, just wait for the 30th anniversary. You’re going to see your stuff up there.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Eric: You signed the release 18 years ago. Just wait.

Andrew: But that’s why the cereal is triggering, because… [laughs]

Eric: I think they’re Owl-O’s. I can look at it later, for Steph, because she was asking.

Micah: Well, you have other things from the set, don’t you?

Andrew: No comment.

Eric: Do you mean to tell me…? Andrew, after you made that huge kerfuffle about Michael Goldenberg being the director for Order of the Phoenix, they still invited you to the set for Movie 6?

Andrew: [laughs] I’m abstaining from this discussion right now.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: I have no comment here. In fact, I didn’t even hear what you said. It broke up for me. But it’s fine, because we’re moving along.

Eric: They still invited you to Movie 6 after you screwed up on Michael Goldenberg coverage?

Andrew: [laughs] Yeah, wasn’t that nice of them? Second chances. If they only knew what I did. I blew it again with them.

Micah: The eyes on that cat. And I’m talking about Mrs. Norris.

Eric: I’m dying at Micah’s clarification there.

Laura: Aw, Neville.

Micah: I will say, the score by Patrick Doyle is very well done.

Eric: Yeah, it’s probably the best score all-in. Between “Potter Waltz” and “Neville’s Waltz,” they’re really good.

Micah: Neville’s got shoes too.

Laura: I would totally go to the ball with Neville. He’s like, I think, the ideal date for the Yule Ball.

Micah: Oof, Ravenclaw looks rough.

[Laura laughs]

Micah: Like they’re going to bite his face off. No comment.

Laura: Wait, what? What happened here?

Micah: She ate something out of his beard.

Eric: You know, just like in the book?

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Ooh, Krum. He may not say much in the movie, but his actions speak louder than words.

Eric: Krum never skips leg day.

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: Alan Rickman is such an icon.

Micah: It’s tough because Snape doesn’t really play much of a role at all in this movie. He is in one of the deleted scenes during the Yule Ball.

Laura: He’s got rizz.

Eric: What’s rizz?

Laura: Oh no, we have to have Chloé on. Eric, I’m giving you homework.

Eric: See, Snape… it just doesn’t make any sense. Drama. It always looks like he’s trying to shove their face into pie, but there’s no pie.

Laura: Harry and Ron needed chiropractic care after this year.

Eric: Pulverize me, Snape.

Andrew: Whoa, look at that circle of stones to the right. Did you see that? That’s in Hogwarts Legacy too.

Eric: Yeah, there’s a term for that. But they’re awesome. I really like those.

Andrew: “Stonehenge” is the term.

[Laura laughs]

Micah: Druid circle?

Eric: Yeah, Druid circle. Stonehenge is an example. Yeah, yeah, that’s exactly it, Micah.

Laura: No, they’re all Stonehenge.

Andrew: [laughs] I just call them all Stonehenge. Oh, look at Stonehedge! I didn’t realize that was here in America.

Eric: Oh, it’s totally a thing, though.

Andrew: Oh man. Too relatable, this scene.

Micah: “Sorry”? He said it very clearly.

Laura: Ugh, the secondhand embarrassment. Oh, the swell of heartbreak.

Eric: You know, Harry should just go back to that Druid circle and do a Merlin challenge. He’ll feel much better.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: I got a little tired of those in Hogwarts Legacy. They’re fun.

Eric: There were a lot of them.

Andrew: And I think they were going for what Zelda has with the Korok seeds, and so I liked it from that angle, but it was just more work than the Korok seeds in a lot of cases.

Eric: I just hated how it’s the only gateway to get enough pockets for your clothes. Like, you need to hit every one or you can’t carry a fifth hat.

---

The Yule Ball

---

Eric: Yeah, it’s fine. Just make Parvati and Padma in the same Hogwarts House. That’s cool.

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: That’s okay, I think the biggest crime is about to be the outfits that they got put in for the Yule Ball. It’s been pretty notably chronicled online that people of Indian culture looked at that and said, “What the hell?”

Eric: Oh man. I’ve always liked Harry’s. You can get this outfit on Hogwarts Legacy, actually.

Andrew: Yeah, that was a nice touch.

Eric: That’s real fun. Because they’re from what, the 1880s or something? And that’s exactly when Legacy is set.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Oh, that’s perfect. I didn’t think about that. I just kind of considered it an Easter egg. But yeah, you’re right.

Eric: I think in the books Ginny is like, “They were last fashionable in the 1800s.” It’s a fun reference.

Andrew: I just feel terrible for Hermione. In this case four. Quadwizard.

Laura: [laughs] I love how casual she is about it.

Andrew: And she’s older! She’s repulsed!

Laura: She’s not that old.

Andrew: Yeah, “repulsed” was a strong word. Sorry, Ron. Everybody’s looking great. Wasn’t this always exciting in school?

Micah: Except Ron. I feel bad.

Andrew: Well, yeah. But it was always so exciting to see everybody dressed up in high school for prom.

Eric: I agree. Like, people that you know, who are only ever in regular school clothes, do it up a little? Yeah, I agree.

Andrew: Or even, honestly, weddings today. It’s like, “Aw, you guys really dressed up!”

Eric: I was about to say, “That’s childhood,” but yeah, that’s life.

Andrew: I’m just wearing gym shorts 99% of my life these days.

Eric: To weddings?

Andrew: [laughs] No, no, the 1% where I don’t is weddings. Every other time…

Eric: Well, now there’s stretchy formal wear. It’s like that business…

Andrew: Yeah, I’ve seen some of that.

Eric: Yeah, that stuff is great.

Andrew: It’s like the work from home type thing, too, like maybe you want to dress up a little bit, but yeah.

Laura: Andrew, if you want to wear basketball shorts to my wedding, that’s fine. I don’t care. Come as you are.

Andrew: Oh my god. Don’t say that, Laura.

Eric: I’ve always wanted a job where I could wear a suit every day. I think that would be cool.

Andrew: You want a job where you can wear a suit every day? Careful what you wish for.

Eric: I always did.

Andrew: Ask Micah what that… well, you don’t wear a suit. But I think people would disagree with you there.

Eric: I’m sure it would get old fast, but I’ve never had it, so that’s why I want it.

Andrew: It’s like me saying like, “I love work from home!” But, and I have said this before, “But I want to go to an office.” Meanwhile, Laura and Micah are like, “You’re insane.” [laughs]

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: I just want to see people.

Micah: You can come to my office and work if you want.

Eric: It’s always fun at Micah’s office. He gets us little passes.

Andrew: [laughs] For you, Micah?

Micah: Yeah, for me. You know, we were talking about Patrick Doyle earlier. I would say next to “Hedwig’s Theme,” this is probably the most notable score in the Harry Potter franchise.

Andrew: I would agree with that.

Eric: Although, wait, because Nicolas Hooper comes in with a lead pipe in the next one for the Room of Requirement and the Umbridge theme. Those are actually more widely used at the theme park and stuff.

Micah: What’s with the ferret?

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Because it’s fun.

Micah: He transformed Draco back.

Eric: Well, no, then he redid it. Draco is now having lap time.

Micah: Yeah, because we don’t see Draco in this scene.

Eric: No, Draco’s not here.

Micah: It’s a good point.

Laura: So I just want to…

Andrew: Oh! Are you going to ask about the song?

Laura: I want to call… oh, well, we can talk about that in a second. I just want to give props to the chat because people have started calling Karkaroff “Rasputin.” [laughs]

Micah: He is. I mean, basically.

Laura: And the thing is, I was thinking the same thing when I saw him at first, and then I look over at the chat, and I see Casey being like, “Rasputin is back.” [laughs]

Micah: I wouldn’t be very surprised.

Andrew: I’m sorry, I don’t find that very funny.

Laura: You don’t?

Andrew: Go ahead, guys. Go ahead.

Micah: No, I was just going to say, I wouldn’t be surprised if Rasputin inspired his character.

Laura: Oh, yeah, I agree.

Andrew: Okay, I love this song and I’m not apologizing. “Can You Dance Like a Hippogriff,” I’m referring to it, in case it’s not clear for the listeners.

Laura: Listen, we danced to this song at one of the Yule Balls. I was very, uh…

Andrew: [laughs] Excited.

Laura: Inebriated.

Andrew: Okay. It’s a good song. We didn’t get enough original songs, outside of the score. We didn’t get enough original songs. We didn’t get any, really, besides this one.

Eric: Well, unless you bought the soundtrack. You can’t really hear it. I never learned this song or the lyrics.

Andrew: It’s catchy. It’s upbeat. It’s rock! They put it in a Harry Potter movie! I mean, I guess I came to like any non-score song from the Harry Potter movies, like the Deathly Hallows one.

Eric: Yeah, I was going to say, brackets now. Is this better than “O Children”? Or does “Dance Like a Hippogriff”…?

Andrew: Well, they’re very different, right? I’m not playing “O Children” at a dance, but I am playing “Can You Dance Like a Hippogriff.”

Eric: Fair enough.

Andrew: Man, this was all too real with all the dance drama and being hung up.

Laura: Mmhmm. They actually captured that very well because thinking back on high school dances, there was always drama like this. Somebody was always up in some drama.

Andrew: John C. listening live says “O Children” is better. I respect that choice. I remember when that song came out with the movie, I was very into it. I think I bought it on iTunes at the time.

Micah: “They get scary when they get older.” [laughs] That’s such a parent thing to say.

Laura: Yeah, the gaslighting in this moment is…

Micah: Go Neville.

Laura: … very relatable, as someone who experienced being a teenage girl

Micah: Ooh, Hagrid trying to cop a feel.

Eric: “Hagrid, my eyes are up here. No, higher. No, higher.”

Micah: Oh, graveyard time.

Laura: Yeah, they’re like, “Well-mannered frivolity over.”

Micah: Well, they also cut the other scene, as I was mentioning, that Snape was in because he goes into all the carriages to break up all the make-out seshes.

Laura: He would. He’s just salty because he never had a make-out sesh.

Eric: Too soon. “Are you the ghost of Christmases yet to come?” And now, audience, remember there were these two men.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Andrew: Once upon a time…

Laura: Oh hey, that’s like the thing that was in the sky.

Eric: I have a temporary tattoo of those. So cool.

Micah: Quick, go make sure Mad-Eye is in his bed at Hogwarts.

Eric: The sweat glistening off of his cheek. Real cool. Shiny shoes.

Micah: “Yeah, when I was making out with your future wife.”

[Everyone laughs]

Laura: Aww, Neville. See, optimal date for the Yule Ball.

Eric: More girls got to get on that.

---

Egg clue

---

Andrew: This bridge gets a lot of airtime in the movies, doesn’t it? It’s on the Studio Tour, too, which is cool.

Eric: Yeah. I like it.

Micah: It gets serious airtime in Deathly Hallows – Part 2.

Andrew: [laughs] Yikes. Wait, what are you referring to? It being blown up?

Micah: Yeah. Boom.

Andrew: Wow. No, but you’re right. [laughs]

Eric: And the LEGO games.

Andrew: Laura, did you ever play the LEGO games? I know Micah and Eric are huge fans.

Laura: Oh yeah. Yeah, I did.

Andrew: I couldn’t get into them.

Micah: Andrew, get ready.

Eric: Try again. They sell them for like six bucks on PlayStation Network.

Andrew: Oh, I know. I own them. I just… ugh.

Eric: Yeah, you need to be in the right mind space. The parody is really, really good. Or like, fun commentary. When you’re playing, you can tell that the people that loved the stories made them.

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: But there are years that go by that I don’t play a LEGO game because it is a very specific humor that you have to be in the mood for.

Laura: The way he delivers this is so weird.

Eric: It’s good. I love that he’s awkward, that he’s allowed to be the school champion on the one hand, and a really awkward person on the other. I appreciate it. It’s like, “Potter, remember those Potter Stinks badges?”

Andrew: Oh, this is the scene you were referring to. [laughs] I was like, “Wait, what am I…?” Yeah, this was a big deal. Shirtless Harry Potter, hello. I don’t care who you are.

Eric: That mermaid is ripped.

Andrew: Speaking of ripped, let’s return our attention to Harry Potter.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Eric: Did this bring about any kind of awakening for anybody in 2005?

Andrew: [fake coughs] No, no, no…

Eric: I was just polling the audience.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Laura: He wasn’t singling you out, Andrew. He just wanted to know.

Andrew: I’m just playing.

Eric: I said anybody! I literally want to know, anybody.

Andrew: Was it an awakening moment for me? I honestly can’t remember. Did I enjoy it? Of course.

Micah: Clearly Myrtle is enjoying herself.

Andrew: [laughs] Yeah, me and Myrtle. Myrtle more than me.

Micah: And the reason why I brought up what I did earlier on is because… and I think Shirley Henderson has spoken about this, but she’s 57 years old now, which means how old was she when she did this scene with Daniel Radcliffe?

Andrew: Probably about 20 years ago.

Eric: Yeah, 39 and he was 14?

Micah: Yeah, so…

Eric: Still, you can’t tell.

Micah: No, you can’t, but it’s slightly awkward. [laughs]

Eric: I do like… okay, it is awkward. I really don’t think Myrtle is that flirty in the books. Is she?

Laura: I think they definitely vamped it up for the movie to make it more awkward.

Andrew: Yeah, and entertaining. It’s just entertaining.

Eric: They have a lovely singing voice.

Micah: And I don’t think they give the full clue here.

Laura: No, they don’t.

Micah: And Harry immediately makes a connection that makes no sense at all.

Eric: “Are there mermaids in the lake?” Well, if you can’t have house-elves, at least you get Moaning Myrtle. The little bubbles. That’s really funny.

Micah: I mean, she says, “Almost all of Cedric’s bubbles were gone,” and then she looks down in the water.

Laura: I think that was from the book, actually. She did say that.

[Eric laughs]

Micah: Really? That’s what gave it its PG-13 rating.

Laura: Yeah. [laughs]

Eric: Some frightening imagery and a lack of bubbles.

Laura: I just want to know, did they provide an intimacy coordinator for this scene?

Eric: Was there a safe word?

---

The second task

---

Eric: Professor McGonagall is going to kidnap you. You’re always talking about nature, Neville. You suck.

Laura: As a matter of fact…

Eric: A book that thick, you know there’s a way to do that.

Micah: I just don’t like how they cut Dobby out, but I know house-elves are expensive.

Andrew: Just wait for the TV show.

Eric: It was his agent. His agent suggested that he renegotiate his contract and it all went to hell after that.

Andrew: Ahh, too much. It was too much.

Eric: He was too big for his britches.

Micah: I mean, it does build a stronger bond between Harry and Neville for Neville to provide the Gillyweed.

Eric: Yeah, the closeness between Harry and Neville in this is really apt considering their comparisons later. This is probably the best Matt Lewis movie besides Deathly Hallows, ff course. Of sorts. A living, breathing human!

Laura: What is everyone’s favorite task?

Eric: Book or movie?

Laura: Let’s say book.

Andrew: As somebody who has never loved the water levels in Mario, I’m going to say first of all, this one’s off the table. I think the dragon one, actually, for me.

Eric: It’s creepy, it’s dank. Yeah, I agree, not this one. Isn’t the dance called the unexpected task? The Yule Ball is a fourth task, basically.

Laura: Oh, yeah.

Eric: Then I would cheat and say the Yule Ball. But otherwise, it’s probably the first one. I never understood the sphinx riddle. Meg had to explain it to me like 15 years later.

Micah: In the book, I like the maze. In the movie, I actually like this task, because I don’t like the dragon chase scene, and I don’t like how the maze is done in the movie. It just lacks everything that’s in the book.

Eric: This looks cool.

Micah: This takes you to a new place you’ve never been before.

Eric: That’s true. And it’s right in your own backyard.

Micah: They could have thrown the squid in.

Eric: Yeah, the squid should be here.

Laura: I do feel like I… and we’ll see about this when we read the book. I feel like I remember the second task being my favorite, so we’ll see if that still holds true.

Eric: I’d be interested. I just can’t get over whether they were really in danger or not. We’re told that the champions are in danger; that’s why they age restricted it this time. But it seems really weird to take Ron, Hermione… just because Hermione is Viktor’s Yule Ball date, she then is the person that he has to save? And if he were to get caught or captured, what happens to her? Anyway, stuff lurking in kelp is scary.

Laura: Yeah, I think that they explained that in the book at the very least.

Eric: I don’t think they do.

Laura: They’re like, “Did you really think Dumbledore would actually let anything happen to them?” Because of Harry’s panic and feeling like he needs to save Ron and Fleur’s little sister.

Eric: Well, it’s an open question because Dumbledore isn’t like, “Yeah, Harry, you’re safe. I never would have…” Dumbledore did a lot worse.

Laura: That’s very true. He’s like, “More pigs for slaughter.”

Micah: Now I’m going to ask another question: Is that repurposed for the veil?

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Oh my God, stop reaching. Officially reaching.

Eric: I love this thread. Is this repurposed for the Newt scene in the second Fantastic Beasts where he’s in the basement with the kelpie?

Micah: Hmm, probably.

Eric: Or is that the third film? Hey, look, they’re…

Laura: Oh man.

Andrew: This always got me.

Eric: How are they breathing?

Andrew: This is so mean and unfair. I don’t like this one bit.

Laura: I just am struck by how bad these models are.

Andrew: But Laura, it’s deep underwater and they’re passed out. That’s why they look that way.

Eric: Madame Tussaud’s was busy.

Andrew: [laughs] Madame Tussaud’s was busy. I do know what you mean, though. They do look very waxy. And I guess it’s like, why? Why do they look that way? Maybe it was intentional, just to make them look passed out or whatever this is?

Laura: But look at Cedric pulling Cho. Watch this move. It’s so bad.

Micah: Yeah, make sure her head doesn’t fall off.

Laura: They’re like, “Nope.”

Eric: What the hell is her deal? Uh-oh, what don’t they like? Go Krum. Man, it’s a good thing Hermione is not conscious for this. “The time must come where you can choose to do the right thing or the easy thing.” She’s like, “Why am I wet?”

Laura: Yeah, why is she waving? [laughs]

Eric: You know, if somebody waves at you, you wave back. It’s just courtesy. That CGI effect doesn’t get enough praise. I think it’s really cool where his head turns back.

Micah: I’m telling you, that’s the veil. See, Lupin should have thrown a few of these in his tank when he walked out at the end of Prisoner of Azkaban.

Eric: Yeah, what are they?

Micah: They’re grindylows.

Eric: I thought the grindylows have a long, spindly hand that you break. These are those alien creatures from Men in Black. Poor Harry.

Laura: He’s like, “Perfect.”

Eric: “I still want to know if you put your name in the Goblet…”

[Laura laughs]

Eric: That’s a fun moment. Guess they were grindylows. “We have some last-minute points.”

Laura: Get ready for some favoritism, y’all.

Andrew: Yay, second place! Runner-up!

Eric: First is the worst, second is the best.

Laura: What was up with Nigel?

Eric: Isn’t he a stand-in for the Creevey brothers? But why would they not just have the Creevey brothers?

Laura: Just have someone they had already cast? Yeah. Well, you could say that about other characters in this movie.

Eric: Was the Creevey kid doing Spiderwick or something? Yeah, I don’t know.

Laura: Was that him?

Eric: I don’t know.

Micah: Feels like such a disservice to not learn this story in full.

Eric: I mean, it is a really cool part of the book that we’ll definitely spend time on in the show.

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Laura: He’s just like, “Son?”

Eric: “My son used to lick his lip like that.”

Laura: He pulls an Amos and he’s like, “That’s my boy!”

Eric: Oh man. Too soon.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Too soon, Laura, yes. Too soon.

Laura: It hasn’t even happened yet!

Andrew: Yeah, it’s too soon! Exactly! We’re like, 40 minutes away from that probably.

Eric: What about the Marauders, Hagrid?

Micah: Ruh-roh.

Eric: What a way to go in the book.

Micah: This just feels too on the nose after what just happened.

Laura: Yeah, I mean… it’s not the only time in the movies that they make it fairly obvious who the bad guy is.

Eric: I mean, did you catch the lightning when he first walked in?

[Laura laughs]

---

The Pensieve

---

Eric: Oh, there was some real fire there.

Micah: There’s about to be a cat fight.

Eric: That was well-synced, the door opening to Harry’s hand.

Micah: Well, it’s good to see Fawkes again.

Eric: Oh shit.

Andrew: That bowl is, let’s say, one short because of a certain somebody.

Laura: Oh, yeah?

Eric: Are they really sharp-looking?

Andrew: Why are you asking me that?

Eric: Did you ever…?

Andrew: No. [laughs]

Laura: I was going to say, it sounded like you were implying that you took something.

Andrew: No, no, definitely not. No way.

Micah: Harry does. He drops some.

Eric: They all look CGI. They don’t look like they’ve ever existed.

Andrew: If they felt wooden, I wouldn’t know. I’m just looking at it.

Eric: Okay. That’s a fascinating conjecture.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: I don’t know how it feels in your pocket either, but I would assume it’s pretty pocketable, just looking at it.

Eric: I love everything about this whole conversation.

Andrew: This movie is very blue. The Pensieve, the Goblet…

Eric: I did notice that, yeah.

Andrew: Even the start of it was giving blue.

Laura: Yeah, I mean, even if you look at all the marketing for this movie, everything is blue and gray tones.

Andrew: Do you all remember the comma drama? Which rhymes, but…

Eric: Yusuf Kama?

Andrew: No, no, remember there was a poster that was like, “It is our…” No, what was the poster? There was a poster for Goblet of Fire, and there was a tagline, and all of us, MuggleNet, Leaky, being readers, book nerds, grammatical hawks, we were like, “That poster is missing a comma.”

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Goblet of Fire poster. Let me see if I can find it. Already, not the same poster. But yeah, trust me. There was drama. There was drama.

Laura: I mean, that definitely sounds like something we would have done.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Eric: This set decoration is really cool. That’s a hint.

Andrew: Stephanie is asking, “Is this set repurposed in Order of the Phoenix?” Micah, your thoughts, please?

Laura: Probably.

Micah: Believe so, for Harry’s trial.

Andrew: I think that’s spot on, yeah.

Micah: He’s like, “I saved the best for last, bitch.”

Laura: “I’ve got the mic drop.”

Eric: I met him. Good guy.

Laura: [laughs] Rita’s face. Yeah, I feel like you do see the actor playing Barty Crouch, Sr., you do see a switch here in the way he portrays the character.

Micah: There’s the tongue, so if you don’t know now…

Laura: I know. They’re like, “Just in case you didn’t notice that weird thing.”

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: If you took 40 bathroom breaks. Why does he look like he’s about to pass out? What’s wrong with Dumbledore here?

Eric: There’s so much wrong with Dumbledore here.

Micah: Or he’s constipated?

Eric: It’s too many licorice snaps.

Andrew: Oh, here we go again. Didn’t we just have a conversation? I’m just kidding.

Micah: About what?

Andrew: About Dumbledore. I mean, not tonight.

Micah: There’s the Deathly Hallows.

Andrew: I know we’ve spoken about this until we’ve been blue in the face – pun not intended with how blue this movie is – but I really do love Michael Gambon’s Dumbledore. Sorry.

Laura: Same. I’m right there with you, Andrew. I do not stand for this Michael Gambon slander.

Eric: It’s awful. It’s really bad.

Andrew: No, Eric, you, I think, have been really critical. Haven’t you?

Eric: In 6, he gets it. Movie 6.

Andrew: Oh, but this movie you don’t like?

Eric: No, no. Movie 6 it finally clicks for me and it clicks hard. It really clicks hard. I love him in Movie 6. But before then, no, absolutely not. He gets the worst direction. He doesn’t have a clue. It doesn’t work.

Andrew: Well, okay, so I’m willing to meet you there with Goblet of Fire because like I mentioned earlier, I’m like, “No.” From what we heard, I think not the favorite director.

Eric: The line delivery, like, “Don’t you all have studying to do?” in Movie 5. It’s like, “What? What? Who is he and why is he asking that?”

Andrew: That’s too much, yes. But shouldn’t you blame the screenwriters for that? Yes. Basically what we just said. I don’t think we can blame Mr. Gambon.

Eric: Well, that’s true of any performance, right? These are the shots that they kept. These are the directions that they were given. But no, I mean, because isn’t the question, “Don’t you love Michael Gambon as Dumbledore here?” Also a question about the writing, the directing, the sound that’s going on? So I answered the question.

Micah: Totally. The challenge is, though, that in Richard Harris, you’re dealing with somebody who read the books and took the part for his granddaughter. Michael Gambon, I’m not sure why he took the role but he was very clear that he never read the books. I think that factors in. You don’t get a true sense of Dumbledore by not reading the books.

Eric: I do love this little repurposed Ollivander set in the background that ended up becoming…

Andrew: I was not expecting this commentary to be so heavy on the repurposed set discussions. I think it’s right, I just wasn’t expecting it.

Eric: Look, it’s the same ladder!

Andrew: “The same ladder.”

Eric: [laughs] “I wonder when I’d be seeing you, Mr. Potter.”

Andrew: What exhibition is that a part of now, I wonder?

Eric: I do think that Goblet of Fire is when Alan Rickman looked the best as Snape.

Andrew: Interesting.

Eric: For some reason, something about the uniform and the little white sticking out of the sleeves.

Andrew: And the hair? The hair is a little different.

Eric: The hair and the face. It’s not too wrinkled. He ages a little bit from this point forward, but I think this is the best he’s looked.

Andrew: Of course, I feel like by the end of the series, and I’d have to look at side-by-side photos, but I do feel like Snape’s hair gets a little longer over time. Maybe a little more disheveled? Even looking at him now, it’s ever so slightly… it needs a comb.

---

The third task

---

Micah: Uh-oh, here we go.

Eric: Whose boy?

Andrew: Ugh, I’m not ready for this. I need to use the bathroom. Maybe I’ll use it during the “My boy.”

Laura: No.

Andrew: No?

Laura: Oh, look at Amos. He’s so proud.

Eric: He’s championing his son.

Andrew: He’s so excited. Nothing’s going to go wrong.

Eric: They’re doing the Macarena.

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Andrew: When should I use the bathroom? Y’all tell me when I should use the bathroom.

Eric: Go now.

Andrew: Go now?

Eric: Yeah, you’re not missing anything with the maze. Go now.

Laura: Yeah, nothing happens in the maze, actually. Have y’all seen the meme-ification of the Hogwarts band and this song?

Eric: No.

Laura: So on TikTok it became a trend where people talk about some traumatic event happening, like “Finding out that such-and-such person I really love died,” and then it was like the Hogwarts band just comes on.

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Eric: “Now remember, boys, if the cup turns out to be a Portkey, send sparks.” Using that well-known spell. Look at the art in the background, the emblems for Ministry of Magic.

Andrew: I’m back. I’m ready for heartbreak.

Eric: “People change in the maze. When roots spring up and grab you, you become a different person.”

Laura: He’s talking like they’re going out on a nine-month wilderness expedition.

Eric: Oh yeah, they’re going to be done in 20 minutes.

Andrew: You might even even become a vampire.

Eric: You might be naked and afraid.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Laura: And yes, Legalize Gillyweed, the spectators did just sit in the stands a whole time. I think we’ll talk about this when we read the book, but like, what were they doing? They just sit there and stare at the maze?

Andrew: Even this terrifies me. The joy of the outside, the start, to the depths of the maze. Just such a beautiful juxtaposition.

Laura: I like how Dumbledore is like, “That’s a little sus, but…”

Andrew: [laughs] “Eh, Voldemort might be in there somewhere, a bad Portkey, whatever.”

Micah: Look, it’s the repurposed entryway to Malfoy Manor.

Laura: [laughs] Andrew is going to kick Micah off the stream.

Andrew: Nothing can stop me now because pizza just arrived for me. I’m eating for the main event.

Eric: Oh, man. What kind of pizza?

Micah: Shirtless DanRad and pizza. You’re all set for the night.

Laura: How can you eat pizza at a time like this?

Andrew: Domino’s handmade pan, the only way to eat Domino’s. Whoa, way too much pepperoni.

Eric: What are the toppings?

Andrew: Just pep. I’m just a pep guy.

Eric: That’s cool. I respect that. Elegance in simplicity. I did a home video of the maze scene with some neighbor kids and I had this shirt.

Andrew: I feel like this one, too, is at the Wizarding World park.

Micah: We did the maze at Magic at Play.

Eric: You guys ever search for Christmas trees and you feel like that? They’re everywhere. They’re all around you. How are you going to pick the right one? That’s me every December.

Laura: We have a fake tree, so I don’t get that experience. I’m allergic, unfortunately.

Eric: How can you be allergic to Christmas?

Andrew: Don’t you like joy?

Laura: No.

[Eric laughs]

Laura: No, actually, Christmas is my second favorite holiday. Halloween is number one.

Andrew: Wait, wait. I think – if I may speak for you, Laura – Laura’s birthday is very close to Christmas. Is that why you don’t like Christmas? Because it takes away from the real…?

Laura: [laughs] I mean, it does take away from my birthday for real, my entire life. But no, I mean, I actually really like Christmas, but I like Halloween just a little bit more.

Eric: Do you already know what you’re doing this Halloween?

Laura: No, isn’t it on a Tuesday or something lame this year?

Andrew: It is.

Eric: Yeah, well, usually the weekend before would be the weekend where everyone goes to parties.

Laura: Yeah, we might be going to visit some friends, but I don’t know.

Eric: I love the idea where it’s like, if it’s a Tuesday, Laura just doesn’t celebrate her favorite holiday.

[Everyone laughs]

Laura: Well, what I mean is…

Andrew: She celebrates it once every six years.

Eric: Yeah, six out of every eight years she just sits home.

Laura: Well, okay, nobody’s work closes for Halloween, unfortunately.

Eric: No, it sucks. I’m working Halloween. It’s awful. Not looking forward to it.

Laura: I should take off on Halloween. Screw it.

Eric: You should, just to stick it to them.

Andrew: Okay, you heard it here first, folks. Laura will not be working on Halloween.

Eric: That’s Fleur being repurposed. That is insane.

Andrew: I mean, you’re off work by the time Halloween, the real fun begins. Right? So I would take off November 1, I think, and then party.

Laura: Yeah, that’s true. And then you do Day of the Dead on November 1, a two-day celebration.

Eric: Who’s collecting the people?

Micah: Well, and since Harry did that, shouldn’t Harry be the one taken out?

Eric: Well, isn’t it just now they know where to find her decomposing body?

Micah: I guess?

Eric: This reminds me of the mazes in Link, in Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom with the wind tunnel going through the labyrinth. Except you don’t have that boss-ass music.

Micah: What’s interesting is we see all three of the Unforgivables in a very short window here.

Eric: That’s fun.

Micah: Because we presume Krum is under are the Imperius Curse, right?

Eric: Yes, except in this movie it’s showcased as glossy eyes, which they should have carried over to later.

Micah: But we also see the Cruciatus Curse coming up…

Eric: And the death curse.

Micah: … as well as Avada Kedavra. Yeah, should’ve let him stay there.

Eric: Yeah, would have saved his life to be a little selfish.

Laura: Yeah, you would’ve come in real clutch there, Harry. You go die, but no, you’re all noble and stuff…

Eric: “Harry! This adaptation really sucks!” The vines. Well, lucky he didn’t Cedric with that… “Harry, the plot’s got me.” That’s a great moment of truth there. Honesty. That’s very Harry, actually. I really like that. Oh no, the maze is back. The good news is I like all of the other movies that came after this much better.

Andrew: Only up from here.

---

The graveyard

---

Eric: That said, everything from this point forward is awesome. Voldemort’s return could have been so many things, and they had to get it right and they do. It’s just so tingly.

Laura: Tingly, huh?

Eric: Yeah. You tingling yet?

Laura: Not yet.

Eric: Wait for it. No like, Ralph Fiennes coming into the role, having just been given a body. It’s real cool.

Andrew: New body, new me.

Laura: Yeah, he’s good. I will say I felt… and we’ll see how I feel when we watch the scene. I felt like he leaned a little bit too much into the snake motif.

Eric: Somebody had to.

Laura: Like, I get it, but it just felt a little cartoony.

Andrew: Well, some of us are very comfortable channeling a snake.

Laura: What do you say, Andrew?

Andrew: Some of us are very comfortable channeling a snake. That’s just the area we like to work through as actors.

Laura: [laughs] I see.

Andrew: Update, I wolfed down three pieces of Domino’s handmade pan pepperoni and I’m full.

Laura: Did you unhinge your jaw like a snake to do it?

Andrew: Basically. Yeah, that was me putting the first slice in. I was really going down on it.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Andrew: Sorry, we’re missing critical scenes right now.

Laura: This is supposed to be a family friendly commentary.

Andrew: There was nothing wrong about what I said.

Laura: No, no, not at all.

Micah: How is that unwillingly given?

Eric: Well, he’s dead. He can’t consent.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Eric: Not just flesh. He put a little bone in there too.

Laura: You know how much force it would take to cut off your own hand?

Eric: Not with a really sharp knife

Micah: I mean, let’s be real, what he honestly needs is a nose, not a hand.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Eric: Yeah, the way that’s shot is pretty cool.

Laura: This is all because you let him get away last year, Harry.

Eric: Yeah, doesn’t that feel great, Harry?

Laura: He’s sitting there right now being like, “Dumbledore said that letting Pettigrew go will have made all the difference!”

Andrew: Right? Harry is too good.

Eric: I love how Voldemort is 20% cauldron right now, because the cauldron disappeared too.

Laura: I do like how it’s giving him robes, so he’s not nakey.

Eric: Yeah, otherwise a Death Eater would have to do it. They’d have to be like, [whispers] “My Lord, you’re nakey.”

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Andrew: Specifically using the word “nakey” too.

Eric: It’s real good.

Laura: Oh, Micah, Cassie is calling out that that was recycled CGI.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Ain’t that the truth.

Laura: Looks like Lupin’s wolf.

Andrew: Well, and honestly little baby Voldemort, it looks just like him in Deathly Hallows.

Micah: Well, actually, the transformation of Krum from the shark back into Krum was reminiscent of Lupin transforming to a werewolf.

Andrew: Oh, I thought you were going to say Sharkboy and Lavagirl, the movie.

Eric: There’s no way that Ollivander gave that bone wand to 11-year-old Tom Riddle. There’s no way.

Micah: Ralph Fiennes is so scary.

Laura: He needs to get his nails did, that’s…

Micah: Which one?

Laura: Well, both of them…

Micah: Both? They could go together?

Laura: [laughs] I was thinking about Voldemort. Yikes.

Eric: Why can everybody fly?

Laura: I liked the way they did the costumes for the Death Eaters in this movie. They changed them, didn’t they?

Eric: Well, the pointed hoods never come back.

Laura: Yeah, they were like, “Oh, it’s a little too KKK, I guess.”

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: I was just thinking that too. It is always interesting to see how things evolve in the series, like these costumes. I’m trying to think of other examples. There’s definitely been others. Obviously Hogwarts, but… I don’t know.

Laura: He’s like, “How do you know? You were out in the forests of Albania, man.”

Eric: Tell him about the diary, Lucius. Man, Wormtail gets no love.

Laura: He looks so happy right now. Voldemort is like, stroking his hair.

Micah: There’s your manicure, Laura.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: Metal manicure. Touches him with his foot, I love it.

Laura: Eww, and look, he needs a pedicure too!

Eric: I love it so much. I just picture that scene from Dumb and Dumber where they use a saw to give them pedicures, like a grinder.

Laura: He needs one.

Eric: Voldemort looks so fresh.

Laura: I know, he gets rougher over the course of the movies, which makes sense.

Eric: He’s not even that pale, but it looks like new skin in the moonlight. Maybe it’s that translucent quality, sore so than a white pigment.

Laura: Yeah, I think that he also just gets more haggard-looking over the next few movies.

Eric: I agree. He definitely looks like Hagrid.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: They’re both screaming. He just kissed his own Horcrux.

Andrew: [laughs] Kissed his own Horcrux.

Eric: By a bumbling idiot. Now, this is straight from the book, forcing him to bow. That’s why this scene…

Andrew: Isn’t it so exciting whenever there’s something straight from the book? It’s like, “Yes! Yes! They did the thing!”

Eric: Yeah, it’s so rare in this movie, but they couldn’t skip this. This is why this scene works, it’s so close to the book.

Andrew: I do love the goblet glowing in the background the whole time too. I think I maybe mentioned this on air before or after recording, I had the Goblet of Fire from the noble collection. I don’t know where it is. I wanted to take my shot out of that, but I just couldn’t find it. That would have been cool. Maybe I sold it on eBay. I don’t know.

Micah: I forgot about all these close-up shots of Voldemort. They are really good. And to the point you were talking about before, that gleam?

Eric: Yeah, Ralph Fiennes is good consistently the whole series, but I think there’s something very special about now. This is the man that these Death Eaters are all familiar with. But Harry isn’t. And it’s also strong from a Harry perspective. This isn’t just him having things happen to him. He’s choosing. I hate how every spell became this way, though.

Laura: This is one of my biggest pet peeves. They turned everything into Priori Incantatem.

Eric: It only happens once.

Andrew: I totally agree with what you’re both saying, but it is cinematic.

Laura: And that’s why they stuck with it.

Eric: I appreciate it’s like molten lava-ey.

Andrew: And I guess… [sighs] Did they need to do it as many times as they ended up doing it? No, but I’m just thinking about the average person seeing this movie, not reading Harry Potter.

Laura: For someone who’s not a book reader, yeah.

Andrew: It’s almost like a car race. Like, who’s going to get there first? Who’s going to get to the other end first?

Eric: I can appreciate that when this first started happening, you see Voldemort look up kind of like, “What? What’s going on?”

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: James? “Dad?”

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: “My boy!”

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: “I’m his boy.”

Micah: Frank doesn’t get any lines?

Andrew: He’s Frank.

Micah: Frank Bryce.

Eric: Yeah, no, nothing.

Andrew: No, I said, “He’s Frank.” He’s just Frank. That’s why he’s not getting any lines.

Laura: He’s just chilling. Is he a Ken?

Andrew: [laughs] He’s Ken, yeah.

Eric: I think in the book Frank Bryce is like, “He was a wizard, that man,” or something?

Laura: I do love that whole “No!” Yeah, see, the Hogwarts band is unhinged. How do you not see that there’s a literal corpse?

Eric: Could be sleeping.

Andrew: Maybe he’s just exhausted. Yeah, like, “Whoa, can’t believe that just happened.” This is like… I mean, shocker. This is just such a horrible scene in a good way.

Eric: All right, I’m going to try and listen to it and not turn away.

Andrew: I need to use the bathroom again. Just kidding.

Eric: Not yet. Okay, right now, Harry, court martial. How did he ask you to bring his body back if he was already dead?

[Laura laughs]

Eric: Fudge actually a man of action there in that moment. The damage is done.

Micah: Classic politician.

Andrew: Everybody sit down. I’m so glad this was all revisited in Cursed Child.

Eric: Yeah, they picked the absolute…

Laura: I mean, I have to say right now, I feel bad about making that joke earlier now.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: Laura, it was perfect. It was perfect.

Laura: I agree. I still feel bad about it, though. I wouldn’t change it.

Eric: Okay, let’s be clear. Yeah, all right.

Andrew: I would.

---

Moody’s office

---

Eric: “Professor, do you think I might get my arm looked at?”

Micah: It’s also very strange that he just doesn’t take Harry somewhere else.

Eric: Well, isn’t that what tips Dumbledore off? Because real Moody never would have separated him like that. “Careful, Professor, the last time somebody tried to fix my arm…”

Laura: And it was the Defense Against the Dark teacher too.

Andrew: This is all very triggering for him.

Eric: Somebody forgot his potion just like somebody forgot the full moon.

Andrew: Not again!

Laura: Sensing a trend here.

Eric: At least they have the consistency between the Polyjuice being the bubbling of the skin that goes back. That effect, while off-putting, remains consistent. The eye pops out soon.

Andrew: So creepy how interested he is in the details.

Eric: “Neville Longbottom, the witless wonder.”

Andrew: He did a good Hagrid impression. You’ve got to give him that.

Laura: Oh, this is an incredible performance.

Andrew: Yeah, I mean, I’m talking about the character jokingly.

Laura: Oh yeah, but I just mean, even thinking about the very short snippet we get of him in the courtroom scene, he’s playing Moody completely differently in that scene, which is another tip off that Moody is not Moody. Did he just lick it?

Micah: Probably, yeah.

Laura: Gross.

Andrew: My movie has just become increasingly out of sync with y’all.

Laura: Really?

Andrew: I didn’t pause it or anything but I’m a little behind. The lick happened like five seconds after you guys. Darn digital edition.

Eric: It’s a frame rate thing. I’ve never understood how that happens exactly, but it’s weird.

Andrew: Well, this is too nerdy, but there’s 29.97 and then there’s something else, and… blah, blah, blah.

Eric: The Veritaserum really went straight down the hatch there. This is a cool thing.

Micah: I loved how they stopped to get Veritaserum before they came to rescue Harry.

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: Maybe Snape has just been carrying it around this whole time.

Eric: Didn’t he threaten Harry with it?

Andrew: I mean, would you put that past him?

Eric: There’s just normal Brendan Gleeson! Not Harry. This is like a Mission Impossible movie. They take the mask off.

Andrew: I like how they’re so shocked that somebody could be posing as someone else.

Laura: Right, because we’ve never seen that before.

Andrew: [laughs] And here’s this series’ Johnny Depp moment.

Eric: Why does Dumbledore bring Harry’s wrist forward as if to honor a magically binding commitment when Barty Crouch is just like, “I’ll show you mine if you show me yours”? You don’t need to show him yours. What happened between them?

Laura: Well, I mean, they probably worked together at some point.

Micah: I was just going to say, the interesting thing they left out of the movie, too, is that in the book, you see Dumbledore and Snape – more specifically Snape – in the Foe Glass, which would indicate that Snape is an enemy of Barty Crouch, Jr.

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: Which proves that Snape is “good.”

Eric: That’s a great point.

Andrew: I thought this was another good Michael Gambon moment.

Eric: This was fine.

Andrew: Fine.

Micah: The lines aren’t great.

Andrew: This part, yes, a little too heavy handed.

Eric: He’s always screaming.

Micah: That’s the thing. It’s over delivered.

Laura: But it’s funny because his delivery wasn’t like this in Prisoner.

Eric: Well, what does he say in Prisoner? “Good night”? That’s about it, right?

Laura: I mean, we hear a little more from him, but point taken. That said, it really feels like a product of the direction and the writing.

Eric: Yeah, Movie 3, I think they were a little self-conscious about the casting so they were like, “Less is more.” Movie 4, more is more. Too much is more. But again, they nail it in 6.

Laura: I agree.

Andrew: This part was good, though. “Celebrate a boy who was kind and honest.”

Eric: I like the ceiling.

Laura: And honestly, because of what happens in Cursed Child, we know that this was the best thing to happen, I guess. If Cedric had lived, he apparently would have gone to the Dark side.

Andrew: Yeah, it was for the best. Absolutely.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Laura: Unless you don’t accept that as canon. Cursed Child? We don’t know her.

Andrew: I think the angry moments of Dumbledore… we’ve basically spoken about this tonight. You can just blame Mike Newell. I would just put the blame squarely on him, having heard previously he was not the cast’s favorite director. A little too heavy handed in general, I think.

Micah: But this moment that we’re watching right now is much better.

Andrew: Yes. That was an iconic line. “Dark and difficult times lie ahead.” It was a minute ago for you guys, but it just happened for me.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: Is this the movie that ends with them on the Astronomy Tower?

Laura: No, I think that was 6.

Eric: They’re at the top of the school, though, because the carriages take off or something.

Micah: I think they’re just here in the courtyard.

Eric: Harry gets the Firebolt out.

Andrew: Something ends on the Astronomy Tower in Movie 6, Laura, but it’s not the movie.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: It’s the upcoming ride in Orlando. Oh, they put Gabrielle in normal clothes.

Micah: I think 6 does end on the Astronomy Tower, though, with Fawkes flying away.

Laura: Yeah, it does.

Eric: Yeah, right here, isn’t it? Okay. You guys got me. This is the entrance courtyard.

Laura: To be honest, I feel like the vibe right now is too cheerful.

Eric: Did the Durmstrang ship just fire a cannonball at Hogwarts?

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Micah: It was to honor Cedric.

Andrew: It did look like it was directly at the school.

Eric: The smoke trail, yeah, if you follow that line, half of the hospital wing is gone.

Andrew: [laughs] “There hasn’t been enough trouble this this year; let’s fire a cannon at the school as well.”

Eric: I knew you were trouble when you floated in.

Andrew: “Thanks, y’all. We’re not coming back.”

Eric: Why did she say that so cheery?

Micah: She just got a little make-out session before Krum left.

Andrew: She’s in love.

Eric: Harry can’t tie a tie. Harry, next time, try the double Windsor.

Andrew: Butterflies. Yeah, it’s not a great knot.

Eric: I appreciate that you and I appreciate that.

Andrew: I can’t tie a tie, fun fact about me.

Eric: Really? After all these years?

Andrew: Always.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: I’ll teach you.

Andrew: We should rank the ending shots of the movies sometime. That’d be fun.

Eric: This is pretty good.

Andrew: This one would not – oh. [laughs] I was going to say, this would not rank high.

Eric: No, because the ship sinks and then the camera pans up to the sky as the… it’s cool.

Andrew: The ship sinks? Is the camera going to tilt up? Is that what you mean?

Micah: It descends.

Andrew: Oh, oh, it goes down. I was still thinking about that cannon.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Eric: Sorry, yeah, it fires a few more shots and then Hogwarts retaliates. Flitwick gets up on the rafters.

Andrew: And again, I’m 10-15 seconds behind you. [laughs]

Eric: I’m sorry.

Andrew: No, no, it’s not your fault.

Micah: The movie is over for us already.

Andrew: Well, there we go. That was Goblet of Fire.

Eric: Wow.

Micah: We should rank the endings of the films.

Andrew: That would be fun, right?

Eric: That one was good

Micah: Prisoner of Azkaban is probably worst, honestly.

Eric: Yeah, freeze-frame is…

Andrew: Yes, in part because I went to the bathroom for the end of that movie the first time I saw it. I didn’t think it was about to end. Then I came back and it was over, I was like, “Whoa.”

Eric: Is there an after credits?

Laura: I don’t think that was a thing at this point in time.

Eric: It was in Movie 2.

Micah: Yeah, they did in Chamber of Secrets.

Laura: What was in the after…?

Eric: It’s Gilderoy Lockhart’s book cover of Who Am I? in the storefront of Flourish and Blotts.

Laura: Oh, that’s right.

Andrew: Well, that was a lot of fun. It’s always nice to sit back and just talk about what we’re watching.

Eric: I’ve got to say, doing the commentary with the Discord watchers audience was really cool.

Laura: Yeah, this was great.

Andrew: Thanks, everybody who joined us on Patreon tonight. It is a Friday night. It’s almost 11 p.m. Eastern, so we appreciate those who stayed up late on a Friday.

Micah: We’ll see you in 12 hours.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Yes, we are recording in 12 hours from now. It’s a Muggle Mail episode, so there’ll be less cognitive load, I feel. But so that leaves us, gang…

Micah: Oh, I set them up with some tough questions, though. Don’t you worry.

Eric: [laughs] I would expect nothing less, Micah. Thank you.

Micah: And a bonus MuggleCast, which is actually about Goblet of Fire.

Eric: Oh my God. I think I have to go to bed.

Andrew: Yeah, we will wrap this up. I just want to give everybody a brief little recap here. We have done movie commentaries for Movie 1, 3, 4, 6, and 8, and then all three Fantastic Beasts movies. So we still have Chamber, yep, and then Order of the Phoenix.

Eric: 7, 5, and 2. 2, 5, and 7.

Andrew: Yes.

Micah: Wow, we’re all over the place with these.

Andrew: We really are. Let’s make a mental note, let’s do Order of the Phoenix before Order of the Phoenix Chapter by Chapter.

Eric: That’s settled.

Laura: Great call.

Andrew: In another like year from now.

Eric: Hey, we’re blessed with content.

Andrew: We are. Thanks, everybody, for listening. Thanks for your support. If you have any feedback about the movie or anything else we discussed today, you know where to find us. MuggleCast.com, click on “Contact.” I don’t have all the usual notes pulled up, but you know the drill.

Laura: Yeah. Also, don’t forget to take the 2023 MuggleCast listener survey. Whether you’re a patron or not, the survey is open to everyone through October 6. Help us improve the show. Thank you so, so much.

Andrew: Thanks, everybody, again, and we’ll see you next time. Goodbye.

Eric: Bye.

Laura: Bye, y’all.