Transcript for MuggleCast Episode #694, Rookie Rule Breaker (OOTP Chapter 16, In The Hog’s Head)
Show Intro
[Show music plays]
Andrew Sims: Welcome to MuggleCast, your weekly ride into the Wizarding World fandom, where we go chapter by chapter through the Harry Potter books, share the latest news, and keep you updated on the forthcoming Harry Potter TV show. And this week, grab a few quid and a dirty bottle of butterbeer while we discuss Order of the Phoenix Chapter 16, “In the Hog’s Head.” I’m Andrew.
Eric Scull: I’m Eric.
Micah Tannenbaum: I’m Micah.
Laura Tee: And I’m Laura.
Andrew: I actually brought a Hog’s Head glass to the recording tonight…
Laura: Ahh.
Eric: Whoa!
Andrew: … from the Wizarding World theme parks, yes.
Eric: Ah, man.
Micah: What kind of brew is inside of your mug?
Andrew: I was tempted to actually put beer in this, but it’s just my usual Celsius energy drink that I drink while podcasting.
Micah: What flavor?
Andrew: It’s one of the berry ones. Are you into Celsius now, Micah?
Micah: No, I’m not.
Andrew: Oh, okay.
Micah: But I know that there are different flavors.
Eric: I haven’t ever seen it outside the can.
Andrew: Me neither.
Eric: Andrew, are you sure you grabbed the right glass and not the other glass that you keep in your office for emergencies? [laughs]
Andrew: I’ve got to say, I’m not a huge fan of the color. I, too, never see this drink outside of the can, so…
Micah: Well, in fairness, it is a mug from the Hog’s Head, so even if the liquid was clear that you poured into it, it was tainted by whatever Aberforth failed to clean out of that mug.
Andrew: This has been sitting in my cabinet unused for years, so I’m definitely drinking dust tonight.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: I’m very impressed. I have mine in my cabinet; I didn’t think of it.
[Andrew laughs]
News
Andrew: Well, before we get into the chapter, we do have a couple of news items. First of all, Scholastic has announced the interactive illustrated edition of Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire. The first three books were done by MinaLima, and a few months ago – maybe a year ago now – we told everyone that MinaLima was stepping off the series; they weren’t going to finish it. It was surprising. We didn’t know why. We still don’t know why. People were mad because people love MinaLima; they created all the art in the Harry Potter and Fantastic Beasts movies, and they did a great job with those illustrated editions. Goblet of Fire and presumably onward is illustrated by Karl James Mountford, and will have paper-engineered elements designed by Jess Tice-Gilbert. Have you guys looked at the art yet? It looks very similar to MinaLima, so they’re continuing on with the artistic style.
Eric: Yeah, kind of one of our biggest questions was how do they continue this series without – this sounds nuts, but – infringing on MinaLima’s IP in a way?
Laura: Right.
Eric: Because MinaLima had evolved and grown with the movies and the books and the story of Harry Potter for so long that it’s hard to imagine this sort of product taking over for the MinaLima books and not looking a lot like MinaLima. So it looks very deliberate. It looks very nice.
Andrew: It does.
Eric: But yeah, you can see the influence, and I’m just hoping everything works out okay in the courtroom.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Andrew: I’m sure that this has run through some lawyers. [laughs] I was wondering that too. But yeah, you definitely see the similarities, and yet you do see differences in the designs of the characters.
Laura: Yeah, I agree with that. They might have also cut MinaLima a check for it, for the style, for the influence. Also, they might be getting royalties off of these later editions; even if they didn’t necessarily design them, clearly the design was influenced by theirs, so there could be a deal there for them.
Micah: I don’t want to be a party pooper, but I’m not here for this.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: Okay. No, that’s a good take.
Eric: Oh, man.
Micah: I’m somebody who is very much open to collecting different illustrated versions of the Harry Potter series, and I want to continue with MinaLima, but if they’re not continuing, I’m not continuing with their…
Eric: Ohh, loyalist!
Andrew: Okay, so that’s what’s left a bad taste in your mouth. It’s not necessarily the art that we’re already seeing in these early previews.
Micah: No, I’m sure these are two very hardworking people…
Andrew: I get it.
Micah: … but something doesn’t sit right with me about this.
Andrew: You’re a fan of MinaLima, you wanted MinaLima to continue the series, and now they’re not a part of it, and you’re out. I get it.
Eric: Yeah, I’ll probably be in the same boat. It is funny to read the press release surrounding this sort of thing; it includes the line, “As the US publisher of Harry Potter, it’s exciting to see J.K. Rowling’s beloved series illustrated and reimagined by a talented group of international artists over the years, including Mary Grand-Pré, Brian Selznick, Kazu Kibuishi, Jim Kay, MinaLima, Ziyi Gao, and now Karl James Mountford,” and it’s like, “Oh, don’t worry. MinaLima was just one of nine other artists that we have.”
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Like they’re not the biggest name in illustrated Harry Potter stuff. “They’re just one of the international artists we’ve worked with before; now we have this new one.” It’s like, okay, downplay the significance of this departure.
Laura: Well, and also, how sketchy it felt, to be perfectly honest.
Eric: It was a bit weird.
Laura and Micah: Yeah.
Micah: Andrew is going to keep me honest, though. In mid to late October, he’s going to look at my bookshelf and say, “Micah, what is that that I see there next to the Prisoner of Azkaban illustrated edition by MinaLima?”
Andrew: Right. Yeah, so the book does come out October 14, 2025. Pretty pricey: $49.99! By comparison, Prisoner of Azkaban was $39.99, and Sorcerer’s Stone and Chamber of Secrets were $37.99. So as the books get longer, the price gets steeper, I guess.
Eric: Yeah, the page count doubles.
Laura: I get it.
Andrew: I get it, I guess. $50 for a book? That does feel really steep.
Laura: Yeah, but it’s an illustrated edition. It’s not just a book.
Eric: True.
Andrew: How much was Jim Kay’s? Let’s see… $48. Okay, so comparable. Plus, this one has interactive elements, so that’s where that extra $2 goes. [laughs]
Laura: Exactly.
Micah: Plus it weighs about 20 lbs.
Andrew: [laughs] Yeah. And while we’re on the subject of illustrated editions, I just wanted to mention that we still don’t know who’s going to carry on the Jim Kay illustrated series. He did up to Book 5, and Book 5 was co-illustrated by Neil Packer, so maybe he’s taking it over. But we still don’t know who, and there’s only two books left in that series. That’s the one I’ve been sticking with, the one I’ve been loyal to, so I’m eager to hear when Half-Blood Prince is coming.
Eric: Part one or part two?
Andrew: [laughs] Stop trying to make that happen. It’s not going to happen.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: Also wanted to mention that Cursed Child is going on tour over the next year, and our listeners may know that already, but new cities for the tour have been announced in recent weeks. It’ll be in Boston this November, followed by Atlanta, Laura, in February 2026…
Laura: Oh.
Andrew: … followed by Minneapolis in April 2026. It’s currently in LA and it’s going to head to DC this summer. Laura, I shouted you out because you actually haven’t seen Cursed Child yet.
Laura: I have not, no, so that’ll be my chance. Is the show going to pay for me to go?
Andrew: Is Cursed Child paying for you to see Cursed Child?
Laura: No.
Andrew: Is MuggleCast? Yeah.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: Probably.
Eric: As long as you spend less than $419.32, I think this panel will be okay with it.
Laura: Okay.
Micah: Yeah, I think it’s only fair, considering that the three of us saw Cursed Child on behalf of the show.
Laura: True. I was half kidding; I was trying to basically go for a, “I’ll go if the show pays for me to go.”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Micah: Maybe we could get you a press screening, Laura.
Laura: Oh, that’d be cool.
Eric: Andrew, that number was the price of tickets when it was two parts that we saw it for my 30th birthday.
Micah: And it was opening night.
Andrew: Ohh, okay.
Laura: I look forward to actually getting to see the good stuff about Cursed Child because it really… by all accounts, you just have to see it, and actually beholding all of the elements is the experience, and just don’t pay too much attention to the story.
Andrew: Right, yeah. No, it’s definitely worth seeing. If anybody’s been considering it, on the fence about it, I would definitely recommend it. It’s way better an experience than reading the script book, and the magic is very impressive. And I’m interested in seeing this leaner version of the show myself, so I definitely want to see it again; I’ve only seen the two-part version. And Micah, you have a news item for us too?
Micah: I do. So I was traveling for work last week, and apparently I wasn’t the only one, because I was out in San Francisco for the All-Star game, and I found out that Emma Watson didn’t let me know that she was going to be at the celebrity game.
Andrew: Ahh.
[Laura laughs]
Micah: And this is an event that takes place the Friday night of All-Star Weekend.
Andrew: NBA All-Stars.
Micah: NBA All-Star, yes. And she was in Oakland; I was in San Francisco, so I wouldn’t have been able to make it over, but if I knew she was going to be there, I probably would have made an exception and asked to go to the celebrity game versus the event that I was at on Friday night.
Andrew: All right, this is a mix of fanboying and humble bragging. [laughs]
Eric: We’re going to write an article for missed connections on behalf of Micah and Emma not meeting up at the All-Star game.
[Andrew and Micah laugh]
Micah: But what I found interesting is that they played this up as a very rare public appearance for her. She’s not somebody who is normally out and about…
Laura: No, you’re right. She really isn’t.
Micah: … the way that we may see some other Potter stars.
Andrew: But that goes to show you how big a deal NBA All-Stars is. Emma is emerging from her cave and attending a basketball…
Laura: [laughs] Her cave?
Andrew: Yeah, I don’t know. It’s this rare public appearance.
Laura: You think she lives in a cave?
Andrew: Where is she hiding normally? I don’t know. Where is she hiding? This is according to E! Online.
Micah: Isn’t she studying for a master’s degree?
Laura: I think she and her brother recently came out with their own gin. I don’t think she’s hiding.
Andrew: What?!
Micah: See, Andrew, she’s clearly not communicating with you either. You didn’t even know she has her own gin.
Andrew: Yeah, I’m a huge gin fan.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: Oh, damn. I’m going to Total Wine tonight to see if I can find this.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Andrew: Oh, it’s only in the UK, it looks like. Darn. All right. Well, luckily for me, I’m going over there in May, so I’ll try it then.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: All right. Well, sorry, Micah, that you missed Emma. Better luck next NBA All-Stars.
Micah: I’m more angry at some colleagues who didn’t give me the heads up. That’s who I’m really mad at.
Andrew: There you go. Well, as we continue to analyze the books and share news with everybody and cover the Harry Potter TV show, we could really use your support, listeners, at Patreon.com/MuggleCast. Your financial support allows us to focus more time on the show and less time in the Muggle world, and in exchange for your support, we offer you instant access to lots of great benefits like bonus MuggleCast episodes, a new physical gift every year, ad-free episodes of the show, and access to our exclusive Facebook and Discord groups for Harry Potter fans and MuggleCast listeners, so be sure to check that all out. Again, it’s Patreon.com/MuggleCast, and thank you to everybody who supports us; we really appreciate it. Coming soon in a bonus MuggleCast, I review Emma Watson’s gin.
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: I can’t wait. The hunt for Emma Watson’s gin across all the UK.
Micah: I think that would be great content.
Laura: Yeah, actually, we should.
Andrew: All right, I’ll make a note of that. So the show’s going to buy me the gin and Laura the Cursed Child ticket. [laughs]
Eric: Look, Andrew, while you’re there, pick up some for the rest of us.
Andrew: Okay.
Chapter by Chapter: Time-Turner
Andrew: All right, well, without further ado, it’s time for Chapter by Chapter, and this week we’re discussing Order of the Phoenix Chapter 16, “In the Hog’s Head.” But it’s not the first time, right, Eric?
Eric: That’s right; we last discussed Chapter 16 on Episode 452 of MuggleCast. The title of that episode was “Essence of Goat,” which I think perfectly describes what goes on in the Hog’s Head. And that episode is from February 4, 2020. Here is the clip.
[Ticking sound]
Dumbledore: Three turns should do it, I think. Good luck.
Ron: What the…?
[Bell dings]
[Whooshing sound]
Robotic voice: Episode 452.
Micah: “… with a great deal of long gray hair and beard. He was tall and thin and looked vaguely familiar to Harry.”
Eric: [laughs] Hey.
Andrew: Hmm, why is that?
Micah: I wonder why.
Andrew: And I love that his first words to Harry was just, “What?”
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Andrew: Because this is the antithesis of Albus Dumbledore. Albus Dumbledore: well-spoken, has all these amazing lines… and then Aberforth’s first word is, “What?” It’s just a perfect contrast.
Laura: Yeah, and I mean, really throws you off the scent. Did any of us, when we were reading this book for the first time, suspect that this was Dumbledore’s brother?
Andrew: Right. No.
Laura: I didn’t.
Andrew: If Aberforth walked up and said, “What do you want to drink? It is our choices that tell us who we really are.”
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: That would have been suspicious.
[Whooshing sound]
[Ticking sound]
Dumbledore: Mysterious thing, time.
[Bell dings]
Chapter by Chapter: Main Discussion
Micah: Well, there was no other chapter I’d rather return to MuggleCast for than this one.
Eric: Welcome back, Micah.
Micah: Such an appropriate chapter for us to discuss this week. And look, we start things off; we’re headed to Hogsmeade, but not before we get sniffed at a little bit – literally sniffed at – by Filch. So does everybody not have contraband on them as we head to a little time off here in the Hog’s Head?
Laura: No promises.
Andrew: No, sir. Let’s do it.
Eric: [laughs] Laura is just…
Micah: Andrew, I’m wary of you. I’m afraid you’re going to get us stopped for some reason, and Filch is going to pull you over to the side.
Andrew: Excuse you. I got nothing to hide.
Micah: Well, you’ve all heard of Hogwarts: A History; now it’s going to be time for the Hog’s Head: a history. I figured we could have a little bit of fun with this Hogsmeade dive bar.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: Wow.
Micah: What?
Andrew: I guess it is a dive bar.
Micah: It is a dive bar.
Laura: It is totally a dive bar.
Micah: At night, that place is popping.
Andrew: [laughs] Seedy as hell.
Eric: This is one of the places I would not actually take a dive in on any circumstance. If my face is that close to the ground, I’m going to throw up.
Andrew: It probably does not smell nice in there.
Micah: Well, it depends if you like essence of goat.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: If you don’t, then it probably doesn’t smell great at all. It probably… are we thinking it smells like when you go to a petting zoo?
Eric: Maybe. Stone floor with tons of… I don’t know; I imagine hay, a hay-like scent, but just a buildup of grime over a hundred years. Yeah, I think that’s probably not far off. Also, people smell. That’s just a general fact, too. It doesn’t need to smell so much like animals; if they don’t have proper cleanliness, it’s going to be the stuffiest kind of just grimy bar in every way imaginable.
Andrew: I imagine it smelling like Bourbon Street in New Orleans. It smells like several things I don’t want to have to bleep on the show, so I won’t.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: It just smells very nasty there. Anything that could come out of the human body, that’s what Bourbon Street smells like.
Eric: Oh, man.
Micah: You think that’s what the Hog’s Head smells like, though?
Andrew: Yeah!
Laura: I don’t think people are having raves at the Hog’s Head.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Laura: I don’t think they have Bourbon Street energy in the Hog’s Head, to be clear.
Andrew: I don’t know. Well, all right, all right, I do like the farm idea. I could definitely imagine it smelling like hay, I think Eric mentioned.
Eric: Yeah, maybe like sour milk.
Laura: Oof. Yeah, maybe like a cross between a petting zoo and a dive bar, because that’s basically what this is. [laughs]
Micah: Well, the official text says that “It was not at all like the Three Broomsticks, whose large bar gave an impression of gleaming warmth and cleanliness. The Hog’s Head bar comprised one small, dingy, and very dirty room that smelt strongly of something that might have been goats. The bay windows were so encrusted with grime that very little daylight could permeate the room, which was lit instead with the stubs of candles sitting on rough wooden tables. The floor seemed at first glance to be earthy, though as Harry stepped onto it he realized that there was stone beneath what seemed to be the accumulated filth of centuries.”
[Eric laughs]
Laura: Eugh. That’s terrible. Has anyone ever experienced that?
Eric: Laura, you typically enjoy a dive bar.
Laura: I do love a good dive bar. I can’t say that I’ve ever been in one that was quite this filthy, but I think it’s to be expected in a dive bar environment that it’s not going to be gleaming, shining, beautiful in terms of the environment. It’s going to be a little grubby. It’s going to be a little grungy. But you can get some good beers there. Actually, one of my favorite…
Andrew: It’s going to be dark. It’s going to be cozy. It’s going to be cheap.
Laura: Thank you. That too.
Micah: And a little odorous.
Eric and Laura: Yeah.
Laura: For sure. You can count on that there. [laughs]
Andrew: Bourbon Street.
Eric: Well, I will say – this is maybe a slight preview of next week’s Quizzitch question – but in general, the UK is full of these pubs that have been there for over a hundred years. You can actually find pubs that have been in operation since the 1800s.
Andrew: Oh, yeah. That’s one of the amazing things about England and the UK, all the old bars.
Eric: Yeah, so that casts it in almost a pleasant light in the sense of just tradition. Like, “My grandfather drank here every night” kind of a thing.
Andrew: Laura, you have a dive bar recommendation, right?
Laura: Oh, yeah. So actually, one of my favorite dive bars is in New York City; it’s in Greenwich Village. It’s the Old Rabbit Club. Micah, if you’ve never been, you should. They have so many amazing beers from around the world, and it is this cramped little basement, clearly intended to be used for storage, and somebody just turned it into a dive bar. But it’s really, really good.
Andrew: I also have a New York dive bar recommendation. Laura, you and I have been there. It’s called DBL: Dive Bar Lounge.
Laura: Yep.
Andrew: Let’s just say Dumbledore would be a big fan of DBL.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: Micah, I think you should go for research purposes. It’s in Hell’s Kitchen.
Micah: [laughs] And report back to you?
Andrew: Oh, look at this – I’m not even joking – just around the corner is a coffee shop called the Jolly Goat Coffee Bar. This was made to be.
Laura: It’s meant to be.
Andrew: Aberforth can hang out at the coffee bar and Albus can hang out at DBL. This is the slowest-moving Chapter by Chapter ever.
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: You know what? This is actually maybe the most faithful way of discussing this chapter, as a matter of fact.
[Andrew and Micah laugh]
Micah: We’re all looking at different types of bars.
Eric: “What are your favorite bars? In what ways are they similar to the Hog’s Head?”
Laura: I mean, it does set the scene for what’s about to happen.
Andrew: It sure does.
Micah: It does, because despite its appearance, part of the allure is the fact that it isn’t all that appealing to the average person, right? And we see a lot of business go down here throughout the course of the Harry Potter series. There’s even an event that is rumored to have taken place all the way back in 1612, the goblin rebellion. The Hog’s Head was supposedly a hideaway of sorts for witches and wizards during this rebellion.
Eric: I’d rebel too when I got a look at these cleanliness standards.
Micah: Well, you clearly want Umbridge to come here and investigate and clean it up, right?
Eric: I think she could just straighten it out a little bit, yeah. I think she could shape people up.
Micah: But I would say for us, the most notable event that’s taken place here prior to the meeting of Dumbledore’s Army is the prophecy. This is where Trelawney delivers Harry and Voldemort’s prophecy to Dumbledore to an eavesdropping Snape. It takes place just above the pub here in the Hog’s Head.
Eric: Yeah, this is such a storied place, and it’s almost… I don’t know, humble origins. This is like where Christ’s manger was.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Eric: It’s that level of destitute, and just totally… you would never suspect, but everyone who’s here uses this place for exactly what it offers. The students use it because it’s a way to not be overheard, but – asterisk – only by the people that they don’t want to be overheard by. [laughs] They’re overheard by all these spies. As it turns out, everyone in there that’s not a student is pretty much working for somebody else, which is how their secret gets out, but that’s getting ahead of ourselves. But the people that are in here prefer it in here for what it’s offering, and Hagrid is a regular; he also prefers the clientele that this place attracts. They’re the sort of people who are more likely to have a hidden dragon egg for trade on them than the kind that are right off the main drag.
Micah: Right, this is where that conversation takes place between Hagrid and Quirrellmort. And we know, of course, coming in Deathly Hallows there’s a secret passage that is created from the Hog’s Head to Hogwarts for the members of Dumbledore’s Army to be able to communicate regularly with Aberforth, so lots of good things coming out of a place that smells like goats.
Eric: And you almost forgot to mention, Micah, that you and I first tried Firewhisky in the Hog’s Head.
Micah: Oh, yeah. That’s right.
Eric: Down in Orlando.
Andrew: And I just showed off this cup; I got it at the Hog’s Head.
Eric: Yes!
Andrew: And I have to say, this is one of my favorite places to hang out at the Wizarding World lands. It’s sort of like how it’s described in the books. It’s dark, it’s cozy, it’s clean… thank goodness.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: You don’t have to worry about any unwashed cups, and the floor is squeaky clean and all that. But it’s a nice spot to hang out, and there’s even a back patio. If you’re looking at the bar, you turn to the left, you can get onto a back patio, which is a quiet spot if you’re trying to catch a break from all the hustle and bustle, so yeah. Oh, and the literal hog’s head hanging behind the bar comes to life every five to ten minutes or whatever it is, so it’s a good spot.
Eric: Yeah, that’s really cool. And for all the reasons that you tend to avoid theme parks, the Hog’s Head section of that theme park is the respite from the main crowd. There could be hours long waits to get into or get food at the Three Broomsticks, but the small room off the side of it that’s the Hog’s Head, maybe there’s a line out the door 5-10 people deep. You’re served; you get a drink, at least, in 20 minutes.
Micah: And there’s a bit of an underground drink menu, right? I feel like we’ve ordered off of that a couple times.
Eric: Yeah, there’s a secret menu. I’m trying to remember.
Andrew: I think they do have hard liquor, but they don’t advertise it?
Eric: I think that’s it.
Andrew: Don’t quote me on that, but I think that’s what’s going on.
Eric: Yeah, I think somebody told us to get a Long Island Iced Tea, and it was the strongest Long Island I’ve ever had. [laughs]
Micah: Well, it was very helpful for me in terms of being able to get onto Hagrid’s Magical Creatures Motorbike Adventure.
Andrew: Helpful?!
Micah: Since I am not a roller coaster person.
Andrew: Oh. That’s an easy roller coaster, though. And I hate roller coasters; if I could do that Hagrid one, you can too.
Micah: Okay. Well, I did, with the help of the Hog’s Head.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: I will say my favorite hack that I’ve done is I’ve brought in a plastic shot of Fireball and then I order a butterbeer at the Hog’s Head, and then I dump the little thing of Fireball into the butterbeer, and then I have an alcoholic butterbeer to enjoy at the Wizarding World. Because I think, as most people know, when you order butterbeer at the parks, it’s not actually alcoholic, unfortunately, for us adults.
Micah: Well, the Hog’s Head is a quieter space, which means that the group that is gathering here is much more easily overheard. So while it is off the beaten path and secluded, it’s certainly more noticeable when a group of Hogwarts students are there on their free weekend. So while Hermione may have had the right thought initially about where to gather, was this the right choice?
Laura: No, it wasn’t.
Andrew: Really?
Laura: And obviously we know Hermione gets called out for this later, but I honestly think they would have done better to meet up at the Three Broomsticks or somewhere where it was more common for students to be gathering. In an environment where it’s already really loud, it’s going to be harder for people to overhear you. You’re not going to look out of place; you’re not going to raise any questions for anyone. It’s kind of like being hidden in plain sight.
Eric: I like that for sure, that aspect of it. Yeah, ultimately this is still early stages, so the fact that they met up and had a meeting and were seen and overheard doing so, there’s still not, ultimately, a lot of info to report on them. It’s best that they get this out of the way and then immediately find a more secluded place to actually do the meetings, which is what happens. But had they had to have another type of meeting here, it wouldn’t have worked, and all of the details of everything they were attempting to do would have been leaked to the very least people that they wanted.
Andrew: I do like this from a creative perspective, though, in terms of the author’s choice, because I think it does symbolize… the Hog’s Head symbolizes the underground nature of their meeting and their intentions. It’s this dark, seedy place with mystery people. This is a… they’re undercover, if you will, at the Hog’s Head, making some plans that their superiors would not like them to be making, so I just like it from a symbolism perspective.
Eric: I like that. I mean, it’s exactly the sort of place you’d expect something subversive to be getting off the ground, except in this case, it’s students trying to get educated.
Andrew and Laura: Yeah.
Laura: It’s all about that going underground feel, exactly that. And yeah, I think it would actually be really natural for someone this age to think that this would be the right meeting location because of all of the ways that we’ve described it. But as people who’ve reached adulthood, I think we would choose somewhere else.
Eric: I mean, Madam Puddifoot’s is another common place where it really wouldn’t be too out of place. Also, the Three Broomsticks does have that room upstairs that Flitwick and McGonagall and Cornelius retire to. I understand that you probably have to speak with Rosmerta, but we know that her sympathies would probably… somebody somewhere – maybe Fred – gets on really well with Rosmerta, so they could probably use that room.
Micah: [laughs] What does that mean?
Eric: I just mean he has a good rapport.
Micah: Oh, I can see that.
Andrew: See, I don’t think the issue is necessarily the location; it’s Hermione shrugging off the idea that Umbridge or somebody else could be at the Hog’s Head right now. This comes up in this chapter; Harry or somebody says, “Could that tall woman over there be Umbridge?” And then Hermione is like, “Umbridge is shorter than that woman.”
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Andrew: Okay? So Umbridge is walking around on stilts to disguise herself; something like that could feasibly happen in the wizarding world. Umbridge aside, there could be somebody else there who shouldn’t be overhearing what they’re talking about. Lucius could be there, for all we know, under one of these cloaks. It just seems very irresponsible and out of character for Hermione to not be suspicious of who is exactly in the bar at that moment.
Laura: Well, she’s out of her element, honestly. Hermione doesn’t really have street smarts.
Andrew: Yeah, that’s true.
Laura: And I feel like she kind of bit off more than she could chew here, because we see how nervous she is when she’s finally up in front of everyone, and it’s her job to pull everybody together and explain to them why they’re here. She kind of realizes she maybe didn’t… at least it seemed to me she realizes she didn’t prepare as much as she should have.
Eric: When you take that into account, it makes more sense that she’s leading with this magical security that she has with the list, the fact that she protects what they’re doing the only way that she can. There’s a lot of elements that she can’t control, the fact that it’s so tight with her spellwork on the contract that they sign, and locking them in in that way maybe accounts for – or she assumes will account for – the backup. But I’ve got to give props to Hermione anyway because Harry is making this damn near impossible. She has done him a real solid by putting him up to this, saying that she thinks he would be a great teacher, and even though he’s flattered or likes the idea, he still doesn’t say anything for two weeks after that gets suggested, and she has to prod him, and he snaps at her, and she’s like, “Oh, and don’t snap at me,” and he’s like, “Oh, I’m not,” but he wants to. The fact that she makes this happen, she goes around, she does the outreach, she gets all the people from all the Houses to actually show up, and manages to do so up to this point undetected… Hermione is the MVP here. Yes, she does not account for everything, but this would not have happened were it not for Hermione, and then including all of the future things that she does to make the DA happen, like the coins… I’m just very impressed by… this book really wouldn’t have worked without her.
Laura: Totally. And I don’t think anyone here is criticizing her by any… because at the end of the day, she’s a child in this moment, and it’s actually really incredible – to your point, Eric – that she does accomplish everything that she accomplishes with the DA from the beginning.
Eric and Micah: Yeah.
Micah: They really end up doing the exact thing that Umbridge and Fudge are afraid that they’re going to do, and that is forming Dumbledore’s Army. And I think that Hermione definitely should get credit for organizing all of this, but may have been a little bit shortsighted in picking the location. We, of course, as adults can sit here and debate the pros and cons of doing it at the Hog’s Head…
Laura: Of course.
Micah: … but there were real concerns that should have been in the back of her mind, especially when Harry was raising it, which somebody brought up earlier. And we do know – and we’ll talk a little bit about this later on – that there are two people, actually, of importance that overhear these conversations. One goes to Dumbledore; the other goes to Umbridge.
Eric: Yep.
Micah: So it really is surprising that Hermione wouldn’t have taken that a little bit more into account. Though I will say, going to a place like the Three Broomsticks or someplace else that’s well known within Hogsmeade… this is not a small group of people.
Andrew: [laughs] No.
Micah: This is 25 people congregating together, so that in and of itself likely would have drawn some attention as well. But I do want to briefly talk about… I know we referenced Aberforth in our MuggleCast Time-Turner segment, but the person at the bar who looks vaguely familiar to Harry. I know Harry has a lot on his mind here, but he couldn’t give it a little bit more thought of “Why does this person look familiar to me?” And nobody else sees it either? Not Ron, not Hermione?
Andrew: It’s a fun little Easter egg teasing what’s to come and who it actually is. But again, you think about this space. It’s dark in there; there’s a lot of people around. Harry is probably a little nervous about this upcoming meeting. He’s not thinking totally clearly about who this could potentially be, so I forgive him for this.
Eric: Yeah, if he were bored out of his mind, not there doing anything else, and found himself with a few hours to kill, he’d nail it. He’d know exactly who this guy was. But that’s sort of also the brilliance of how – again, getting back to the manger scene here – you wouldn’t expect the brother of Albus Dumbledore, renowned wizard, to be found in this place.
Andrew: No.
Eric: Why it works that Aberforth is spying for Albus, too, and his brother, is because nobody would suspect. They usually… I imagine ne’er-do-wells would go into this pub to do something that is not going to be known or noticed by Albus Dumbledore specifically, and that’s the brilliance of it all, is the fact that… yeah.
Micah: Yeah, because his brother is there spying, most likely.
Eric: Well, exactly.
Micah: When they’re on speaking terms, of course. So Eric, you were talking a little bit about this earlier: Harry’s thought process in whether or not he should teach Defense Against the Dark Arts. And eventually, Hermione does get him to come around, and he does say he’s given it quite a bit of thought. And I’m wondering, is there a part of him – knowing that he is part Harry, part Horcrux, and that Voldemort so much desired to teach Defense Against the Dark Arts – that maybe part of this is the Horcrux, part of it is Harry? Or maybe not, but I wanted to throw it out there.
Eric: I think he doesn’t go into this like he does so many other things, with a vengeance or an anger of wanting to get Umbridge. The rebellion thing is a side effect, essentially. The rebellious tone that Dumbledore’s Army takes, and the sort of tongue-in-cheek rebelliousness, is ultimately secondhand. If Harry wanted revenge for what Umbridge did to his hand and was therefore starting this group, I would suggest that the Horcrux is deeply involved in his decision-making here, but this seems to be almost like a bright light into the purity of Harry, and his ability to escape Voldemort to this point comes from the light side. Though, maybe the dark. But I think right now, it’s probably not the Horcrux, in my opinion.
Andrew: I agree with that as well. Harry is always an adventurous person; he’s up for trying new things. He’s a born leader. We see in this chapter he’s subconsciously planning out lessons after Hermione dropped the seed in his head. And I think he’s inspired by his friends, too, to lead this class. He knows they need him. He probably is flattered that they think he could lead a class. So yeah, I just think it’s in Harry’s character to actually realize that he wants to lead this class.
Laura: I was just reflecting on Harry’s experiences earlier in this book, where he was really jealous of Ron and Hermione being prefects and feeling like he didn’t have anything he was being celebrated for, and he was going through that running list in his head of all the things he’d done that Ron and Hermione hadn’t done, and he finally had to sit back and admit to himself, “I’m better at Quidditch, but I’m not better at anything else.” And I think that kind of tanked Harry’s morale for a while there, so it’s actually good to see him realize, “Oh, I do have something that I’m good at. I do have something else that makes me special.” So I’m going to vote not the Horcrux.
Andrew: I think Micah’s Horcrux is making him think it’s a Horcrux.
[Laura and Micah laugh]
Andrew: You think dark.
Eric: It’s always a worthwhile question to ask, especially in this book.
Laura: Oh, yeah. We should always ask.
Eric: I do feel for Harry, though. I mean, he’s spent all year so far feeling so maligned because nothing short of the Minister for Magic is calling him a liar, and he’s still having to contend with that. In fact, at one point, he says to Hermione, “Oh, I understand now why everyone’s here. They want to hear me talk about this situation.” He feels like he didn’t earn it.
Andrew: Yeah, and in the case of leading Dumbledore’s Army, this is something that’s in Harry’s control. Eric, you were just talking about the Ministry coming for him, the Prophet coming for him, coming for Dumbledore. Here’s something he can take into his own hands, seize the opportunity, and right the ship. Set the record straight.
Eric: Yep.
Andrew: In these uncertain times, this is something that he can actually take on, and maybe it’ll be a good distraction, too, and it’s his way of clapping back and responding to the Ministry and Umbridge and the Prophet. And I think it was really cool to see Harry feel inspired to teach this class when he started subconsciously thinking of these lessons. I think we should all be so lucky as to have these moments in our lives where we get these ideas in our head and we get so excited about them, we just can’t stop thinking about them.
Micah: Totally. And one of the things that is really great about the group that shows up is that it isn’t just Gryffindors – it’s Hufflepuffs, it’s Ravenclaws – and he almost gets pumped up by the conversation that starts happening. They’re really building him up, talking about all the things that he has been able to achieve over the course of these last couple of years, and in many cases, it’s coming from some of the most unlikely of individuals, right? Susan Bones – who expected her to be somebody who throws out the fact that Harry can produce a full corporeal Patronus?
Eric: He doesn’t even know her!
Micah: Right.
Eric: Some stranger is like, “Hey, he can do this really cool thing.”
Andrew: We’re seeing… and this is a good example of inter-House unity. We’ve been hoping to see this. We were talking about this a few weeks ago.
Micah: Totally. And for the Hufflepuffs, there are questions about Cedric, and I think that that’s only natural that his Housemates would want to know what happened to him. And I can understand Harry maybe getting a little angry with that, but these are people who clearly believe Harry on some level – otherwise they wouldn’t be here – and they want to learn from him. They want to be able to learn Defense Against the Dark Arts.
Eric: They see the need.
Laura: Yeah, and also – I agree, Micah – their curiosity is natural. They spent the entire summer being fed this BS narrative that Dumbledore is losing his mind and that Harry is crazy and making everything up. And it’s very clear from Harry’s demeanor at school that he’s calling BS on all of that, so they’re coming to him and saying, “Okay, well, can we hear your side, then? Because we’ve only heard their side.” Now, that doesn’t mean it’s Harry’s job to give that to them, but I also don’t think it’s a sin for them to be curious, for them to want to know, “Okay, well, then what happened?”
Andrew: No. Harry should have started a podcast.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Andrew: “My story: Episode 1.”
Laura: That’s the answer to everything.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Between this and the Rita Skeeter tell-all interview that Harry eventually gives… that’s his true clapback; that’s his true… and Hermione also completely arranges that. I mean, Hermione is the GOAT, really.
Laura: Oh, listen, these two would have been dead halfway through the first year if it weren’t for her; I think that is well established. And another thought I had is Harry wants to be mad at Hermione in this moment, because he’s like, “Why didn’t she anticipate that this would be the reason for people to come do this?” And I get it, I understand the feeling, but I think she actually kind of did him a favor by breaking the dam with some of his peers outside of school, with a smallish group of peers, rather than continuing to allow the pressure to mount between Harry and the entire school. At least now he has a network of people outside of Ron and Hermione who he can confide in, relate to, spend time with.
Eric: She did her job. She just had to get them in the door.
Laura: Yep.
Eric: Get them to see maybe what’s going on, and then the event unfolded naturally because they do have a common enemy; they have a common purpose. And even though he’s very against the idea at this juncture of telling them more about Cedric or reliving his trauma, he ultimately sees that communicating with them about what he can offer is how to break through this bubble that they’re all in.
Micah: Yeah, I think that we could ask the question whether or not Hermione could have prepared Harry more for this moment. I don’t really think it’s her responsibility to do that, and I don’t think she could have anticipated all of the different questions or topics of conversation. She could have guessed probably that Cedric would come up. But a lot of the other things that are talked about, they need to hear from Harry. In order for Harry to be validated, in their mind, he needs to sell them. “Why should we join Dumbledore’s Army?” Now, there’s clearly a desire on their part, otherwise they wouldn’t be there, but I still think part of it is Harry needs to close the deal.
Eric and Laura: Yeah.
Laura: It just takes Harry a minute to realize that, I think. Once he does, it all works out.
Micah: And Laura, you don’t think that Hermione was maybe even prepared fully for this moment.
Laura: No, I really don’t think she was. Even referring back to what I said before about Hermione is kind of out of her element here with what she’s doing; she’s never broken the rules in this way before. And actually, I want to give a shout-out to Michelle in our Discord, who said, “She’s just a rookie rule-breaker, and it’s her first time. She still got it done.” And I have to agree.
Eric: There’s a limit to how much preparedness you’re going to have ever. But also, I do feel the need to point out she’s not breaking the rules. She checked; this strictly isn’t illegal. It’s not!
Laura: Yeah, she’s not technically breaking the rules…
Eric: Again, she checked.
Laura: I know, but she also is capable of reading between the lines and understanding what new rules will get put in place if they are caught doing what they’re doing.
Eric: Can you imagine if earlier in the series a couple of students from all the Houses put together a study group for Potions to improve over Snape’s teaching of the subject? Like, “Hey, guys. This teacher is no good. Let’s get good at Potions in spite of him.” What kind of effect that might have had were Snape to find out, because this is the same thing with Umbridge that they’re doing. It’s like, “Let’s help each other to all be better in this subject that we can’t get the education through normal means.”
Micah: But at least with Snape, there’s been a level of consistency, whereas with Defense Against the Dark Arts, this is the first time where they’re being told, “No, you need to follow the textbook,” versus doing something that is a little bit more hands-on, right? That’s just my thought on it. And I think this is a great moment for Harry, because he’s really channeling so much of what he learned from Lupin in his third year. Because if you think about what he likely learned in the first two years of Defense Against the Dark Arts, it wasn’t a whole lot of anything. He really learned what he learned from Lupin, and maybe some from Bad-Eye Fakey in his fourth year. But it’s great to see him in this moment. Now, putting pen to paper is a whole different ball game, so I wanted to ask the group, what would it have taken us to sign up for Dumbledore’s Army? Now, I understand this is the ’90s. You sign up for clubs on a piece of paper.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Micah: But you just think about – we were talking earlier – who’s lurking around? If somebody is to get hold of that piece of paper, everybody who’s on it is going to be in deep doo-doo.
Andrew: Yeah, it’s the handwritten sign-up list that would be scaring me off, and I understand what a couple of the people at the meeting were hesitant about. And as we do learn later, Hermione – as bright as she is – kind of street smart, actually, in this sense, in this example. She does have a plan for this list and how it could punish any tattletales. That part is way too risky for me; it’s not so much the Hog’s Head. But I’m also wondering if, after the scene when Hermione goes to shop for a new quill, that this is some sort of hint or foreshadowing that she had done something special with the quill and parchment.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: Because it just seems so random for her to shop for a new quill right after this meeting.
Eric: I really love that catch.
Andrew: What would it have taken you guys to be convinced?
Eric: I did sign up for chain letters and all sorts of… I was just… I mean, my inbox, if you saw the number I’m staring at right now, it’s just absolutely insane.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: I can’t really get a handle on all the things I’ve willingly signed up for, so I haven’t learned anything from spam and phishing in the 21st century. So does that answer your question?
Andrew: I guess so.
Micah: You were all in, basically.
Eric: I’m all in.
Andrew: “A newsletter? Sign me up.”
Eric: “You want to get me 10% off?”
Andrew: “Put me in, coach. I’m ready to read.” [laughs]
Micah: How about you, Laura?
Laura: Yeah, if I were to put myself in the shoes of being a student at this table, yeah, I totally would have signed. Especially at that point in my life, I was going to protests; I was very, very engaged.
Eric: Aw, heck yeah.
Andrew: [laughs] Rebel.
Laura: Yeah, I did not care about people knowing about the things that I believed in. But I will say, there are probably some better ways that this could have been anonymized and still had the same effect. Could people have used their initials? Could people have left a mark, like a fingerprint? Dip their finger in some ink and leave a fingerprint, and could it have had the same effect?
Eric: That seems even more scary, though.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: If you have to… something’s going to take a sample of your essence, rather than just quill and parchment. Quill and parchment, at least, is unassuming.
Micah: You could have used the essence of Murtlap. Or milk of…? Whatever you talked about on the last episode.
Andrew: No, not again!
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: I’m wondering… it would have been cool if the quill could anonymize the names as they were written down, and then maybe Hermione, being the owner of the quill, is the only person who can actually see the real names. Something like that.
Eric: I like that.
Andrew: Something Marauder’s Map-esque, where it’s hidden away from prying eyes. That would have been cool. This reminds me, back in fourth or fifth grade I actually made a signup form for my classmates to sign, in which we all agreed that this other kid in my class, Anthony Worrell, was a little bully, and he’s got to stop that!
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: It was like a petition, like, “Anthony is a bully; somebody put an end to this.” [laughs] I think I presented it to the teacher or something. I still have this; my mom saved it. My parents got a kick out of it.
Laura: [laughs] Oh no.
Andrew: But that was my Dumbledore’s Army signup form. That was my act of rebellion. [laughs]
Eric: It’s effective. And I think that we’re more likely to sign something if it’s our peers, in between our peers. The thing is, it does benefit them, having a list, even if it’s not magically binding – which it is – but because there are people they don’t know there. Harry doesn’t even know the Gryffindors that showed up here, and Cho brought her friend, who doesn’t have a name at this point. There are a number of people that, in order to get in touch with them again, the same way they were gotten in touch with the first time won’t work. People overheard other people, etc., etc. So having their names, really, ultimately is the only way to keep track of who was here and who’s going to be expecting an update.
Andrew and Micah: Yeah.
Micah: Well, one person who will have no qualms about signing that piece of paper is Luna.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Micah: Before we wrap up the discussion here on the chapter and get to some odds and ends, I did want to just talk about Luna versus Hermione, because she really has no qualms at all about speaking her mind and standing up to Hermione. I think Hermione doesn’t realize it, of course, now in this moment, but so much of what she focuses on is the book smarts, and unless it’s right in front of her and she can see it and she can prove it… Luna, on the other hand, she has a bit more imagination, and I like how Luna is willing to challenge Hermione in this moment.
Laura: Yeah, do we agree with Luna?
Eric: That Heliopaths exist?
[Micah laughs]
Laura: Well, I mean, yes, but secondarily, do we agree with her assessment of Hermione?
Andrew: Well, I agree with Micah; it is refreshing to see somebody push back against Hermione, even if the information is not true. [laughs]
Laura: Yeah, I agree.
Andrew: But everybody always just believes everything Hermione says for the most part, and here’s somebody who’s just staunchly disagreeing with her. It’s like, “Oh, this is good. Fight!” What was your question, Laura? Sorry.
Laura: I was just asking do we agree with Luna? Do we think this is a valid criticism of Hermione?
Eric: I think specifically she says, “What, you won’t believe anything unless it’s shoved right under your nose?”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: Yeah, I think that’s probably pretty fairly accurate.
Andrew: Yeah, if you think about how often she is reading, anything under her nose is going to be a book, I think is the implication from Luna. So unless she reads it in a book, she ain’t buying it, Luna thinks.
Eric: And it’s one of Hermione’s greatest strengths, because she’s one of the most well-read characters we have, and so you do need that from time to time.
Laura: Yeah. It is just funny to see Hermione and Luna find themselves in the same orbit, because they have this one shared belief that the Ministry is corrupt and that Voldemort is back, but they agree on absolutely nothing else. [laughs]
Eric: It’s all it takes. That is your common ground right there, saving the world.
Laura: Totally.
Micah: Well, and the truth is likely somewhere in the middle between those two. But just a proud Ravenclaw moment for me there with Luna.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Aww.
Laura: Yep.
Micah: And I think that takes us to the end of this chapter. I know there’s a little bit of romance conversation in who’s dating who and who’s interested or not interested in who anymore.
Odds & Ends
Micah: But a few odds and ends to this chapter: We mentioned earlier there’s some eavesdropping going on in the Hog’s Head, as is usually the case there, right, Andrew?
Andrew: Yeah, Mundungus is there. But I also was just thinking… we’ve kind of talked about this already, so I won’t repeat what I was thinking earlier in terms of who might be there, but it’s kind of too bad that Sirius actually wasn’t in Hogsmeade with them this time like he wanted to be, because he may have been able to sniff out Mundungus or any other suspicious lurkers at the Hog’s Head.
Eric: Ahh, yeah.
Andrew: And I wanted to call that out, because Sirius does come up in this chapter. Harry thinks about how Sirius wanted to come with them to Hogsmeade. He could have been helpful here.
Eric: Yeah, so I think just for the record, and to state it, Mundungus Fletcher is here. He’s the hag that’s mentioned, the tall hag that Harry thought could have been Umbridge, but that’s not how Umbridge finds out about this meeting. Umbridge finds out from Willy Widdershins; you remember him? The exploding toilets guy? And he wants to reduce his sentence, and in order to do that, he trades the information – pretty quickly, actually – with Umbridge, because at the beginning of the next chapter, she knows. So yeah, Willy Widdershins. Sorry, Willy. You’re why we can’t have nice things.
Laura: Does she actually reduce his sentence? Does she actually follow through on it?
Eric: Probably not.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: I mean, maybe. Actually, I think they read in the Prophet later that he was.
Laura: Okay.
Andrew: I also wanted to follow up on Harry’s scars. In this chapter, Harry doubts whether the words that are “etched on the back of his hand would ever fade entirely.” That’s a quote. And I wanted to call this out because, as we discussed a couple weeks ago on the show, if you go see Harry Potter and the Cursed Child, you actually still see the scars on the back of Harry’s hand! That’s really impressive.
Eric: You’ve got to look for this, Laura, when you see it in Atlanta.
Laura: Yep.
Eric: See his hand scars.
Andrew: Now we’ve got to buy Laura a front row seat so she can see it.
Laura: I know. You’ve got to get me a VIP seat.
[Eric and Micah laugh]
Andrew: She just yells, “I see them! I see them!”
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: Everybody else in the theater is like, “What? See what?”
Micah: “Who’s the perv with the binoculars?”
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: In the front row. And then finally, just wanted to note that while the trio is walking around Hogsmeade, they see Fred and George and Lee Jordan hanging outside of Zonko’s Joke Shop. And this just made me wonder if they were doing some early research for Weasleys’ Wizard Wheezes, or if this was some sort of foreshadowing, because it’s interesting it’s noted that they’re in front of Zonko’s, of all places. And sure, they like Zonko’s, but given what happens later, I wonder if it’s foreshadowing.
Micah: Yeah, and this made me think – when you said this, Andrew – about Hogwarts Legacy, and one of the Easter eggs outside of Zonko’s is that every once in a while if you go past, you’ll see two redheaded kids peering into the window.
Andrew: Oh, I didn’t know that. I’ll have to go look for that. That’s cool.
Eric: I also think Fred and George seen in the joke shop… they have this… I don’t know if it’s a Probity Probe, but they have something they threaten to stick Zacharias with. I find it really interesting that they’re using the Hogsmeade weekend for further R&D, and it’s clear that they probably are disassembling these items to see how they work, to figure out what makes them tick, and figure out how they’re going to improve upon them. It’s classic entrepreneurial behavior and inventor behavior. I like to see it, actually. I like to see any R&D Fred and George are doing that doesn’t involve tricking children into taking things that are going to affect them.
Superlative of the Week
Micah: All right, well, it’s now time for our version of MVP of the Week, and this has to do with our pen pal MVP. Thanks, Andrew, for the suggestion. Who would we be most likely to be pen pals with? Who would we really enjoy writing on the regular?
Andrew: I think Charlie Weasley would be fun to write to regularly. He’s in the broader wizarding world, and it’d just be interesting to hear what he has to say about dragons. That’s what I really want to talk to him about.
Eric: Is this because Hermione and Viktor are still pen pals this chapter? Is that where this came from?
Andrew: Yes, exactly. That’s the inspiration for the segment.
Eric: So I would say my choice for pen pal in the wizarding world would be Nicolas Flamel, because you’d have him for life; he’d be a lifelong pen pal. And he has a lot of personal experience that he could relate.
Andrew: Could learn a lot from him.
Laura: Until, what, 1995? [laughs]
Eric: I guess, technically, yeah. I mean, maybe if you’re going to Hogwarts in the ’80s, it would feel like it would be fun.
Laura: Okay. Yeah, there you go. There you go.
Micah: I decided to go with Dobby; I feel like he would be fun to write back and forth with high energy. You can rely on the fact that he would actually respond to you.
Eric: Aww.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: He has all the tea on what’s going on inside of Hogwarts, and he can go anywhere. That’s the best thing.
Andrew: That’s a good one.
Laura: So this might surprise some of you, but I said Dumbledore.
Andrew: Ooh!
Laura: I actually think he would be an amazing pen pal.
Micah: Which Dumbledore?
Laura: Albus.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Laura: I feel like he would write really long, literary, beautiful letters full of quirky anecdotes and funny stories about his journey and his observations on life. I think it would be delightful.
Andrew: [imitating Dumbledore] “Yes, yes. It’s true, Laura, we’d be pen pal besties.”
[Laura laughs]
Eric: I really agree with that. The written form of Dumbledore is ingenious and is that very engaging personality that you would want to hear from.
Micah: For sure. Well, I thought it was only appropriate that with us spending time inside the Hog’s Head, that I stepped behind the bar and brew all of you up a few drinks.
Eric: Whoa!
Andrew and Laura: Oooh.
Laura: Okay.
Micah: And it’s up to you whether or not you want to keep it or do you want to pass it on to somebody else here on the panel.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: Oh, okay. I hope mine has Emma Watson’s gin in it. Let’s see.
Micah: Well, Andrew, yours is called Thestral Tonic, and it is a mysterious dark gin with a smokey twist.
Andrew: Ooh. You know what? I’m glad you mentioned smokey, because I’ve been getting into Mezcal recently, so I think this sounds right up my alley. I’m keeping this. Thank you, Micah.
Micah: No problem.
Andrew: This looks so expensive. This is so nice of you.
[Laura laughs]
Micah: Now, you could choose to make it with Emma Watson’s gin, if you so choose. As long as you bring me the bottle, I’ll use it when I make your drink.
Andrew: Okay. I’m still looking for where to find that in America, so I’ll let you know when I do find it.
Micah: Eric, yours is Gryffindor’s Grog. Now, this is a bold spiced rum drink for the brave at heart.
Eric: Oho! We have such cold temperatures right now – I know a lot of the US does – that I could absolutely use some spiced rum, so I’m keeping it. Thank you.
Andrew: [laughs] I thought Santa was here for a second. Eric went, “Ohoho!”
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: You know, it’s the Slughorn thing. “Oho!”
Andrew: Oh, okay. Got it.
Micah: And then for Laura, I have the Hog’s Breath.
Laura: All right.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: Now, don’t be deterred by the name.
Laura: No, no, you can’t scare me. Go on.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Micah: This is also a smokey drink. It’s a smoky whiskey with a fiery kick.
Laura: Ooh. Heck yeah, I’m keeping that.
Andrew: Yum.
Micah: All right. Well, that’s three for three. And then for myself, I went with the Crippled Cauldron. This is a fiery, bubbling mix of hot butterbeer with a splash of brandy.
Andrew: Ooh, okay. Awesome.
Laura: That sounds good.
Andrew: These are creative, Micah. I think we’ve got to have you over for a party and watch you whip these up for us.
Micah: All right, let’s do it.
Lynx Line
Micah: And to officially wrap up this chapter, we do have a question that we threw out on our Lynx Line, and the Lynx Line, for the folks who don’t know, is for MuggleCast listeners who are members of our Patreon, specifically the Slug Club tier. And the question this week was: With all the disguises going on at the Hog’s Head, if you had to disguise yourself as someone inside of the Hog’s Head, what would you dress up as?
Andrew: Fer said,
“How important is this eavesdropping I’m doing? If this is an all-in situation, I’m learning how to become an Animagus and turning myself into a cockroach… considering the filth in that place, I’ll fit right in.”
Eric: [laughs] Yeah, yeah, definitely. For sure. Emily says,
“If the purpose is to eavesdrop, I think I’d take a page out of Slughorn’s book and turn myself into furniture. Of course, there is the issue of someone potentially sitting on you, so I don’t think I’d go for a chair or a bar stool, so maybe a dusty table in the corner that no one would want to sit on.”
Andrew: Ohoho! I love that answer.
Micah: Jen had a similar thought.
“I’d transfer myself into a Micah Chair à la Slughorn in Half-Blood Prince. I’d make myself a particularly uncomfortable chair so nobody would want to sit on me, and position myself in a dark corner within earshot of whomever I’m spying on.”
Andrew: For listeners who don’t know, the Micah Chair is a joke that was born out of another podcast we do, Millennial. We had one time observed that Micah loves going to that chair in the hotel room that nobody sits on. He loves that chair. So we started calling it the Micah Chair, because only Micah sits in it, as far as I know. So that’s where that came from.
Eric: I think people underestimate how important having any furniture anywhere in a public space is going to get sat on, no matter how uncomfortable it is.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: No matter what. If you get enough people in a place, they’re going to want to sit or lean on anything.
Andrew: Yes, but those Micah Chairs are dirtier than the Hog’s Head floor. Those things do not get cleaned.
[Laura laughs]
Micah: They’re probably dirtier than the bed.
Andrew: Well, yeah, because the bed sheets, at least those get washed. They’re not throwing the chair through the wash. Bleck.
Eric: I don’t know; I treat my Micah Chairs pretty well when I stay in them.
Micah: Thank you.
Andrew: [laughs] Well, so do I, because I don’t touch them. Eric brings Febreze into hotel rooms and sprays it.
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: Yeah, Febreze fabric scent. I actually reupholster chairs while I’m staying in hotel rooms.
Andrew: It’s very nice of you.
Laura: Might be a business in that. Darin says,
“I would dress up as Aberforth, using Polyjuice Potion. Since he has been there forever and doesn’t get much notice, I think he would be the easiest to infiltrate a secret meeting at the Hog’s Head, since it’s his pub.”
Andrew: Jennifer said,
“I would infiltrate the Hog’s Head itself and get a job there. That way it wouldn’t be strange for me to be there all the time. I could gather intel easily by walking around the pub, hiding in plain sight!”
Good one.
Eric: Love that. I bet Aberforth would probably hire somebody if they just walked up and said, “Need some help?” Because he clearly does. Rachel added,
“I’d go fully undercover as a resident of Hogsmeade who frequents the Hog’s Head, so it wouldn’t be unusual for me to be there. I’d pretend to do a crossword, but I’d really be recording notes.”
Ooh, I love the idea that whatever notes you’re taking, you’d have to fit into the little boxes of the crossword.
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: Oh, yeah.
Micah: Megan says,
“I always enjoyed the Christmas tree the trio moved in front of them in the Three Broomsticks. I like the idea of becoming a potted plant for elite spying abilities.”
[Laura laughs]
Eric: Love that.
Laura: Julianne says, “I would dress as a goat and get cozy with Aberforth.”
Micah: As you do.
Laura: Julianne!
Andrew: All right…
[Laura laughs]
Micah: We didn’t really discuss that aspect of this chapter. That’s After Dark/bonus MuggleCast.
Eric: Yeah, it’s not really this chapter anyway. It’s not like in the movie where they enter and there’s a goat and he chases it off. That’s not at all.
Andrew: Jenny said,
“I would dress as a woman out for a day of shopping in Hogsmeade. I would have a bunch of bags, and everyone would just think I stopped in for refreshments. It would have the added bonus of being able to have a recording device or Quick Quotes Quill in one of the bags to record whatever it is I’m eavesdropping on.”
Eric: Yep.
Andrew: Yes, good.
Eric: Clever. And Eleanor says,
“Is this a one-off? Or a longer term situation? If it’s one-off, I’m going for a visitor to Hogsmeade. I’m going to be a bit dodgy – Mundungus Fletcher vibes. I’ll transfigure my face and act shifty. No one will suspect why I’m really there; they’ll all think I’m selling dodgy goods. If this is going to be a repeat, then I think I’m going to get a job as a bartender. I’ll use a spell on Aberforth to make him think he’s hired me. He’s paying me peanuts, but giving me room and board; he thinks it’s a good deal for him. This one will be trickier. I need a cover story that I can keep up with, so it’ll have to have some basis in fact. I’m probably from some distance away, and had been homeschooled instead of Hogwarts. A family that keeps themselves to themselves, but I’ve always wanted to know more about wizarding life, so I’ve come to Hogsmeade to experience it.”
Eric: Man, Eleanor did all the research. All the planning.
Micah: Yeah, a lot of great answers. Very creative.
Andrew: Yeah. Listeners, we love this segment, and yeah, like Micah said, seeing all the creativity out of everybody. And patrons get to participate in this benefit every week at Patreon.com/MuggleCast. It’s one of many benefits on the Patreon, so please do check it out. If you have any other feedback about today’s discussion, you can contact us by emailing or sending a voice memo that’s recorded on your phone to MuggleCast@gmail.com, and next week, we’ll discuss Order of the Phoenix Chapter 17, “Educational Decree Number 24.”
Quizzitch
Andrew: Now it’s time for Quizzitch!
[Quizzitch music plays]
Eric: This week’s Quizzitch Question: In the US of A, the College Board administers the SAT, which has a possible perfect score of 1600. What is the lowest score possible to receive on the SAT? This is if you fill out your name and nothing else. You can get a 400. That is the correct answer; 400 is the lowest score on the SAT. 60% of people who submitted the correct answer said they didn’t look it up, so that’s pretty smart. I bet they all scored more than a 400, and I hope they’re not speaking from personal experience.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: But this week’s winners are as follows: Buff Daddy; Christa; Ethan the Ravenclaw from Dublin who wants to know what happens to Grawp for a year; LadyHermioneLookalike; Shadow the Hedgehog; The Hungry, Hungry Hufflepuff; The number of people that are on crutches at my school is bad, it’s four currently, and all of them have knee injuries, guys, my school is falling apart; and Tofu Tom.
Andrew: Uh… sir or madam, we are not the right person to contact about your school falling apart, so please reach out to your school administrators.
Micah: Reach out to Dumbledore. He knows a thing or two about schools falling apart.
Laura: But I hope you’re okay.
Eric: Yeah. Next week’s Quizzitch question: In the mid 20th century United Kingdom, pint glasses replaced what type of drinking vessel commonly made of glass, ceramic, or pewter? So it’s a little bit of a UK pub question. Submit your answer to us on the MuggleCast website, MuggleCast.com/Quizzitch, or if you’re on the MuggleCast website, maybe checking out transcripts or our wall of fame/must listens pages, just click on “Quizzitch” from the main nav.
Andrew: [laughs] Micah is totally cheating right now.
[Micah laughs]
Eric: What is he…?!
Andrew: I just watched him copy the question. He probably pasted it into Google. He’s getting the answer.
Eric: You’re asking Grok right now.
Andrew: Wow.
Micah: But I’m allowed to say whether or not I looked it up. Am I not, Eric?
Eric: Yes, that’s… yeah, you’re right. People can cheat miserably by just saying that they did.
Andrew: Check out our other weekly podcasts, What the Hype?! and Millennial, for more pop culture and real world talk from the four of us. In our latest episode of What the Hype?!, Pam and Micah reviewed the final season of Cobra Kai, and then over on Millennial, we’re discussing the rise in concert ticket prices and why some Americans are heading overseas to see their favorites this summer. These shows are brought to you by Muggles like you; listener support is the only reason we’ve been able to podcast for 20 years, and there are several great ways to help us out. Visit MuggleCastMerch.com to get official MuggleCast gear, like the MuggleCast cap I am wearing tonight; I think it’s on the site as MuggleCap. Apple Podcasts subscribers can join MuggleCast Gold, which gets you ad-free and early releases of the show, plus two bonus episodes every month. And for those benefits and more, pledge at Patreon.com/MuggleCast, and in addition to what I just shared, you’ll get livestreams, Lynx Line access, physical gifts, a personal video message from one of the four of us, access to our Facebook and Discord communities, and lots more. So thank you, everybody who supports us. Again, we could not do this without you. And as for other ways to help us out, if you enjoy the show and think other Muggles would too, please owl a friend about the show and cast a five star review in your favorite podcast app. Lastly, visit MuggleCast.com for transcripts, social media links, our full episode archive our favorite episodes and lots more. Thanks, everybody, for listening. Cheers. Próst! I’m Andrew.
Eric: Próst! I’m Eric.
[pause]
Laura: Micah, you’re on mute.
Micah: I’m Micah.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Micah already started drinking.
Andrew: He held up the glass and forgot to say, “And I’m Micah.”
Micah: No, I did say it. I was on mute.
Laura: You were on mute.
Andrew: Ohh.
Laura: And I’m Laura. [laughs]
Andrew: Bye, everyone.
Micah: Bye.