Transcript #645

 

MuggleCast 645 Transcript

 

Transcript for MuggleCast Episode #645, Dumbledore the Matchmaker (GOF Chapter 15, Beauxbatons and Durmstrang)


Show Intro


[Show music plays]

Andrew Sims: Welcome to MuggleCast, your weekly ride into the wizarding world fandom. I’m Andrew.

Eric Scull: I’m Eric.

Micah Tannenbaum: And I’m Micah.

Andrew: Unfortunately, Laura is sick this week, but luckily we have one of our Slug Club patrons on – in the Laura chair, let’s call it – Katie. Hi, Katie. Welcome to MuggleCast!

Katie: Hi, guys. Happy to be here.

Andrew: We’re excited to have you. Thank you so much for your longtime support. You’ve contributed some great thoughts to today’s discussion, too, so we’re so excited to have you part of our discussion. I hope all of our listeners pull out their single-malt whiskey, because students from two foreign wizarding schools are pulling into Hogwarts in this week’s installment of Chapter by Chapter.

Micah: Choo-choo.

Andrew: Katie, before we go any further, can we get your fandom ID?

Katie: Yes. So my favorite book is Order of the Phoenix because it’s thick and that’s what I wanted at the time, lots of pages.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Andrew: “More! Give me more!”

Katie: Favorite movie: Goblet of Fire, because to Eric’s longtime point, it’s full of color. It’s the last film that’s just bursting with color. They did a lot of stuff wrong, but what they did right, they did great. And they gave us some banger songs from the Yule Ball, which I definitely listen to.

Andrew: [sings] “Can you dance like a hippogriff?”

Andrew, Eric, and Katie: “Ma-ma-ma, ma-ma-ma, ma-ma-ma.”

Katie: Yeah, yeah. Hogwarts House: Slytherin.

Andrew: Ooh.

Katie: I thought I was a Gryffindor my whole life; Pottermore told me otherwise.

Eric: Wow. How are you, Katie? How are you? Have to check in on that.

[Andrew laughs]

Katie: I’m still not… I grew up a jock, so I must be in Gryffindor, but then if I stack the tests to get in Gryffindor, then that’s a very Slytherin thing to do. So it’s an ongoing…

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Yes. Yes, it is.

Katie: Yeah, so just accepting it. Slytherin. Ilvermorny House: Pukwudgie. And my Patronus is a heron…

Eric: Ooh.

Katie: … which I used to be very excited about because that was the author’s Patronus, and now…

Andrew: You’re less excited. [laughs]

Eric: Now you’re like, “Can we just not? Let that be the only thing we share.”

Katie: Yeah, now it’s just… I shouldn’t have even said that.

Micah: Now it’s just yours. It’s just yours.

Katie: Yeah, exactly.

Andrew: Thank you for sharing your fandom ID, Katie, and thank you for your support on Patreon. And thanks to everybody who supports us; we really appreciate your financial support through Patreon or Apple Podcasts. So before we go any further, last week, inspired by Harry and Ron’s approach to their Divination homework, we took turns making predictions about one another’s futures, so I thought we should revisit these and see if any of them came true. First of all – and this actually might explain why Laura isn’t here this week – I predicted that Laura will encounter a great fortune, the likes of which she has never seen…

[Eric and Katie laugh]

Andrew: … but it’ll be just out of her grasp, due to an unspeakable law of resistance. So maybe she’s still trying to get that money. Or maybe she got the money.

Micah: She just doesn’t want to tell us the truth, right?

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: I think she had to… yeah, she had to not be on the show in order to claim it.

Micah: She’s going to break it to us softly.

Andrew: Micah, you predicted that I would get offended when someone doesn’t want to chit-chat, [laughs] but it’s not an affront to me; they are processing something I wouldn’t want to talk about anyway.

Katie: This is so personal. [laughs]

Andrew: Should I be speaking to my therapist about this one or what? Because I’m not sure if this came true.

Micah: Yeah, you might just want to check in with them to see. You might be bearing it on a subconscious level.

Andrew: Whoa. Okay. Micah, Eric predicted that you would learn about a new restaurant in Indianapolis that’s too good to pass up. Did that happen?

Micah: I believe it did.

Andrew: Oh!

Micah: So Eric must have some Trelawney blood in him, so… see, this one is tough, because I know Eric knew – or maybe he didn’t know – that I was going to Indianapolis next week.

Andrew: He did.

Eric: I did or didn’t I know? I don’t know.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: [imitating Trelawney] “The staaars have told me…”

Micah: But I have learned actually about several restaurants in Indianapolis that seem too good to pass up.

Andrew: Wow.

Micah: So Eric leading the charge here.

Eric: All right.

Andrew: Bon appétit. And then lastly, Laura predicted that Eric would get a lead on something new, exciting, and unexpected in the coming weeks that would transform his day to day.

Eric: I’m going to take it that Laura’s absence is here, so it didn’t come true, so something must be a complication of that.

Andrew: Okay.

Eric: So I’m still waiting on that one.

Andrew: She did say in the coming weeks, so…

Micah: Yeah, Eric has some time here.

Andrew: Yeah, yeah, you’ve got some time.

Eric: Okay.

Andrew: Safe to say those predictions could have gone a little bit better, but I guess we all have a little Trelawney in us.

Eric: I’m still waiting for our Tycho Dodonus predictions to really hit home.

Micah: Ooh.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: The Fantastic Beasts prophecies that we made.

Andrew: It is Valentine’s Day week, and we have a Valentine’s-themed edition of bonus MuggleCast coming up today, right, Eric?

Eric: That’s right. We are going to be playing [laughs] a wonderful take on the old beloved MuggleCast segment the Dueling Club, but we’re reworking it to make it the Snogging Club!

[Katie laughs]

Andrew: We’re going to be spinning a wheel, and then it’s going to give us two random characters, and then we’re going to have to argue why these two characters should be paired together.

Eric: Yep.

Katie: I can’t wait. Oh my God.

Eric: This takes shipping… and Katie, you are welcome to join us and play.

Katie: I cannot wait. Sign me up. Put me in, Coach. I’m so ready.

[Andrew and Katie laugh]

Eric: All right. Katie is at bat.

Micah: So this is like spin the bottle.

Eric: That’s exciting. Something to look forward to in the bonus on Patreon, and thanks to everyone who subscribes to us on Patreon and gets cool features like the bonus MuggleCast things.

Andrew: This is also a new benefit of MuggleCast Gold on Apple Podcasts. So yeah, going to be a lot of fun. And hey, Spotify listeners, did you know you can easily submit feedback each week? Just tap into an episode and you’ll see a box that says, “What did you think of this episode?” We might even feature your feedback on that episode’s page in Spotify, like we did for this piece of feedback. This was left by Josie on Episode 643 a few days ago; she said, “I love MuggleCats! And yes, I did that on purpose. (cat emoji) I am a diehard Swiftie and I love this reference.” The reference being that episode’s title, which was “Karma Is Crookshanks Purring in My Lap. “Thank you. Love you, besties, Josie.” Thank you, Josie.

Eric: You know what? I will say I’m glad that it wasn’t a reference to Quizzitch getting rid of fun usernames.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: I’m glad that the vitriol has not gone that far. So we’re back, by the way, everybody, to hybrid names on Quizzitch.

Andrew: I guess we need to launch a spinoff podcast called “MuggleCats.” And Eric is a cat owner, a cat father, so you could lead that show for us, Eric.

Eric: I would love to lead that show, Andrew. Please, put me in, Coach.

[Eric and Micah laugh]

Andrew: Katie, do you have any cats?

Katie: I sure do. Oh, yes.

Micah: You already have an apparel line, too, Eric, that you can start with.

Eric: That’s right. I have an apparel line that says “Martha can do no wrong,” or “Martha’s way is the right way”?

Micah: Something like that.

Andrew: Awesome. Well, no matter where you listen, no matter how you support us, thank you, everybody. We really appreciate it.


Chapter by Chapter: Seven-Word Summary


Andrew: And now it’s time for Chapter by Chapter, and this week we’re going to discuss Goblet of Fire Chapter 15, “Beauxbatons and Durmstrang,” and we’ll start, as always, with our Seven-Word Summary. [intensely] Katie, are you ready?

Katie: Oh, boy. Yes.

Andrew: Put me in, Coach. She’s going to play. Okay, here we go.

[Seven-Word Summary music plays]

Katie: Foreigners…

Micah: … arrive…

Andrew: … at…

Eric: … the…

Katie: … clean…

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: … squeaky…

Andrew: … school. Perfect. I think we just need to add a little comma right here: “clean, squeaky school.”

[Seven-Word Summary music ends]

Eric: Yeah, or “clean-squeaky.”

Andrew: But then is that one less word?

Eric: Oh, wait. Yeah. Separate. Comma! Comma!

Micah: Comma.

Andrew: [chanting] Comma, comma…

[Katie laughs]


Chapter by Chapter: Main Discussion


Andrew: Okay, so for this first part of this discussion, I want to talk about the Imperius Curse and Moody’s DADA class. I was chuckling as I was reading this chapter because last week, we were debating whether or not Dumbledore knew that Fakey was teaching the Imperius Curse. I am now confident Dumbledore did not know that these curses were being taught in Moody’s class, because in this class in this chapter, Moody claims Dumbledore wants the Imperius Curse taught on all of them, and there is no way. There is no way! So I am now convinced Dumbledore does not know. And this also makes me think that these Unforgivable Curses are only being taught in Harry’s class, because if he was teaching this to all the students that he had and doing the Imperius Curse on all the students, it would have a much higher chance of getting out, of somebody finding out what he was up to.

Eric: I mean, this really represents the biggest secret kept from Dumbledore that’s right under his nose. I mean, if this is true, Andrew, it means Dumbledore does absolutely not know what’s going on in the school. It’s kind of like an own, a little bit. I mean, are you prepared to say that Dumbledore is that clueless?

Andrew: [exhales] Well, it’s a big school.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: And I just can’t compute why Dumbledore would see this going on and be like, [imitating Dumbledore] “Whatever, it’s fine.” It would be cruel. It would be a fireable offense at the Ministry level.

Katie: He probably trusts Moody, who he believes to be Moody so much that he doesn’t even audit the class.

Andrew: Ooh.

Katie: Because he’s like, “It’s Moody. It’s Alastor. There’s just no way that he would do anything like this.” And Fakey makes up stuff like “The big guys don’t want you to know” to make the kids… to give them some agency and confidence that they’re allowed to participate in this very exciting Auror-type training.

Andrew and Micah: Yeah.

Micah: And to the question about whether or not this is only Harry’s class, I’m not so sure of that. Because we’re told that they’re not supposed to learn the Unforgivable Curses until sixth year, so presumably, I don’t see why he wouldn’t be teaching this in fourth year, fifth year, sixth year. And to expand on that – someone raised this in the last episode; I can’t remember if it was Laura or it was you, Eric – but this is very much a playing with your food moment for Barty Crouch, Jr. He is literally able to perform Unforgivable Curses on 14-year-olds with zero repercussions. And it reminds me of McGonagall’s comments from earlier in the book that surely Dumbledore would have mentioned something to Moody about using transfiguration as a punishment, so if Dumbledore doesn’t allow transfiguration as a punishment, he surely doesn’t allow his professors to perform Unforgivable Curses on his students. [laughs]

Andrew: Yes. 100%.

Micah: So I agree with Andrew; he does not know about this. There’s no way.

Eric: Well, going back to… again, I just really have always thought that Dumbledore is omniscient about everything. Every time Harry sneaks out, I’m like, “Dumbledore somewhere has a gizmo that went off in his office and knows about this.”

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: I just always pictured that, and this…

Andrew: He got a little Air Tag alert. “Your Harry has left you. He has left the school boundaries.”

Eric: He’s checking his Snap map. He’s checking Harry Potter Snap map.

[Andrew and Katie laugh]

Eric: Well, anyway, however… this is well-reasoned, Andrew. Lately, this really stumps me, and the only way I can reconcile that Dumbledore wouldn’t actually know is if Moody is putting – or sorry – Fakey is putting a secret Imperius Curse on the students to where they’re not allowed to tell an adult what’s going on. Maybe the curse has not been lifted after they leave class.

Andrew: I want to also address, Eric, the point about Dumbledore knowing everything that’s going on, being omniscient. I agree with you. I have agreed with you before on that take; I feel like it makes sense that he really does know, or knows let’s say 99%, of what’s going on. But then moments like this happen and I’m like… I feel like this is proof he doesn’t.

Katie: He is attending events coordination meetings about the Goblet of Fire. Inspecting the Goblet…

Andrew: Oh yeah, maybe he’s just busy.

Eric: How many meetings could they have had, given how badly it goes?

[Eric and Katie laugh]

Andrew: He’s cleaning the trophies. He’s helping cleaning the school as well.

Katie: He’s like nesting mothers. “It’s probably fine. Perhaps a little too dangerous, but if that’s the only one we got, gotta do it, I guess.”

Andrew: So then there’s the question of the trio and why they would just go with it. Did it cross their minds that Dumbledore would actually not want them to be Imperiused? And I see Court who’s listening live right now on our Patreon bring this up too: Why didn’t Hermione rat him out? I’m wondering if they didn’t question it because they went into their first DADA class being very excited about Moody. They had heard good things about him; their guard was down when it came to Moody.

Eric: This and the events of the Quidditch Cup with the resurgence of the Death Eaters really does sell that it’s darker times. Darker times call for darker lessons. I think that it’s funny to see, if that is a reason why people’s guard was a little bit more down, they’re used to getting into a little bit more… or they’re amenable to the idea of getting into harder lessons or deeper, darker magic, it’s because of something that Fakey actually did earlier in the year in casting the Dark Mark, so that’s kind of fun.

Micah: But presumably this is a fireable offense, right? If word got out… if any student wrote home to their parents and said, “Oh, yeah, what did I do in school today? I got Imperiused and did cartwheels around the room or almost jumped out the window.” If you’re a wizarding world parent, you have to be very concerned about this. And there’s even a through line to Order of the Phoenix because there’s now a track record for students not going to Dumbledore or their Head of House to basically tell on what their professors are doing, right? Think about with Umbridge. Harry is in detention, and he’s got this scar now that’s showing up on his hand because literally what he’s writing is burning into his skin, and he doesn’t go to anybody about that. Presumably, that would have gotten Umbridge tossed out right away. And I think it’s the same thing here for Moody. If anybody would have said something about this, Moody would have been gone.

Katie: You just reminded me, too, that I think Umbridge – speaking of Order of the Phoenix – I’m pretty sure when she’s dissing every single DADA professor and Harry gets all offended, the last thing she says is she comments on Moody doing this stuff with mirth, and then Harry is like, “Oh, because it was a Death Eater,” and then that’s one of his detentions. So it does come out at some point, the details of this.

Micah: That’s a great point.

Andrew: Also, I mean, this could be cause to fire Dumbledore too. I mean, the buck has to stop with somebody, and it should probably be the person who hired Moody, or Fakey.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: Why wasn’t he vetted more? Look, I know it’s bizarre to hear me say this because I tend to be the guy defending Dumbledore, but it’s very upsetting that this Death Eater was working undercover at Hogwarts, Imperiusing the students, lying about Dumbledore… somebody has to take the fall here, and not just Fakey. Let’s talk about the Imperius Curse and what happens. We actually get an inside look at how it feels to be put under the Imperius Curse: Harry experiences “the most wonderful feeling… a floating sensation as every thought and worry in his head was wiped gently away, leaving nothing but a vague, untraceable happiness… he stood there feeling immensely relaxed, only dimly aware of everyone watching him.” I thought this was a very interesting description. I don’t think it’s what I would have expected, especially because this is an illegal curse and very, very dangerous. But on the other hand, reading it, I do understand it because it’s almost wiping out your brain to control you. You don’t have any other feelings because you shouldn’t. You’re being controlled.

Eric: Right, right. All of the suffering that we have all of the… if you have anxiety, if you have intrusive thoughts, all of that is gone because your only thought is what you’re being told to do. It’s sad, actually, that Harry goes to this place of relief and happiness, because he’s been so traumatized that he’s probably never felt calmer [laughs] than when he’s under the Imperius Curse. I think that’s what we’re meant to take away from it, that it’s actually a tragic thing that Harry is relieved to be in this state.

Micah: Sure.

Katie: Yeah, some people might feel… I suppose everybody would feel this relief so that they would do the thing, but I would imagine maybe some people feel discomfort, not relief, but nothingness or unconcern. But yeah, the word “relief” is interesting there when you call it out like that. What could it be, to be 14 and needing relief from something?

Andrew and Micah: Yeah.

Micah: There’s seemingly this false sense of security that exists in being under the Imperius Curse, and thinking about it, these two… well, if you look at Imperio and Crucio, they’re really at the opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of what they do to you, right? Because Imperio makes you feel – at least, because we’ve only seen it experienced through Harry’s eyes – safe, right? Comfortable. The Cruciatus Curse inflicts severe pain. So it was just interesting to me that these are at different ends of the spectrum in terms of what they do to you, even though they’re Unforgivable.

Eric: Yeah, well, yes and no on that, because Fakey is ultimately doing relatively safe things to them with the Imperius Curse. I think that the issue that comes is once you are experiencing harm or pain, the curse forces you to do that too. So like, he says that the Imperius Curse can be used to make the spider drown itself, right? That wouldn’t be a blissful feeling while it’s doing it.

Micah: But maybe, because the agency is completely removed, so you don’t in that moment…

Eric: The agency is, yeah, but your body would be protesting. Your lungs would be wanting to. It would be a… it’s already a horrible thing to think about.

Micah: But would they? That’s the question. That’s what makes this, I think – probably outside of the Killing Curse – the most dangerous of any of the Unforgivable Curses, because you’re literally going to do anything without any kind of resistance, unless you’re somebody like Harry or somebody who’s practiced in being able to resist this type of curse.

Katie: I mean, you’ll be a Death Eater for years, right, and then claim that you were Imperiused. Lucius Malfoy, I think, was the most…

Eric: There has to be a test… but yeah, you’re right, Katie.

Andrew: Well, and doesn’t Moody say the Ministry was really – well, Fakey says – around this area of the book that the Ministry was having a hard time figuring out who was Imperiused and who wasn’t? So to your point, Eric, about a test, unfortunately… you’re saying a test to detect if somebody was Imperiused or not?

Eric: Yeah, like, everyone who claims that they were Imperiused should have their drawing room floors searched for trapdoors to a cellar full of evil and Dark objects, and then be given the benefit of the doubt only after a thorough search has been completed.

Andrew: Right.

Katie: Or very personal questions, right.

Eric: Right.

Katie: Nicknames. “Mollywobbles” and all that.

Andrew: [laughs] Yeah.

Eric: That kind of stuff.

Andrew: I was wondering if there’s a Muggle equivalent to these sensations that Harry is describing, or certain adult vices.

[Eric laughs]

Micah: If you’re sedated on some level, or you’re drugged on some level, I think, where you lose control of your abilities, that could certainly be comparable.

Katie: There’s the big difference between the motor control in the Muggle world. Any kind of sedation usually compromises physical ability, and Moody is having people do somersaults and dancing and all of this stuff, which requires very detailed motor control, which… I fail to find, because of that, anything close to that in our world.

Eric: Yeah, it’s a good point. It’s like somebody’s inhabiting your body; it’s just not you.

Katie: Puppet master.

Eric: I think that the personal detachment that one feels to one’s own body could be maybe achieved or similarly by meditation, but you’re entering a very slow moving – to your point, Katie – state, and your body’s not active during this time. You’re freeing your mind, depersonalizing, finding a higher plane of enlightenment. It has nothing to do with cartwheels and somersaults.

Katie: All the positive things of letting go and finding relief from within.

Eric: Right.

Micah: I think Laura had a pretty good suggestion here, too, which was hypnosis. That might be the closest comparison.

Andrew and Katie: Yes.

Katie: I think there’s plenty of examples in culture and psychology, history of psychology, of people doing things, but I’ve never tried it myself.

Andrew: Me neither. I’m afraid to.

Katie: I’m a bit skeptical.

Andrew: Yeah, that too.

Katie: You’re afraid to?

Andrew: Well, yeah, I don’t want to be controlled.

Katie: If it actually works? [laughs]

Andrew: Well, because in high school, we had these… after the dance, there’d be this event at the school to keep you away from partying and whatnot later into the night after prom or whatever. And they would bring in a hypnotist and they’d have ten students up on stage, and they would do it. And I was present for these; I wasn’t on the stage. But these people… “When I snap my fingers, you will fall asleep. When I snap my fingers, you’ll wake up. When I snap my fingers again, you’ll do a dance.” Stuff like that. And it seemed pretty convincing to me. I didn’t hear…

Katie: Everybody fell in line?

Andrew: Yes!

Katie: It wasn’t just like, the theater kids that all signed up and then did it?

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: “Oh, you know what? Coincidentally, all the volunteers were from the theater department.”

[Andrew and Katie laugh]

Eric: No, Andrew, I’m with you 100%. Anytime I see that and it’s supposedly real and it’s in front of me, I’m terrified. What if it were me? I don’t like the idea of not being in control of my own body.

Andrew: Amen to that. Well, let’s keep moving along here. Somebody mentioned a few minutes ago that Harry was able to resist the curse to an extent; part of him didn’t understand why he should have to jump on the desk, which is showing his resistance. Fakey is actually very impressed by this, and Harry is the only student that can resist. But I was also thinking, so Fakey is enjoying himself, but is he secretly mad? Because he’s learning here that Harry is a pretty good fighter in a way he didn’t necessarily know.

Katie: Yeah, so I had this thought that… because he not only teaches the kids Imperius Curse, but he makes Harry do it four times until Harry can throw it off completely. And later in this book, I’m pretty sure Voldemort tries to use it on him in the graveyard with the bow thing. I think Lucius tries it again. So he’s equipping Harry with the very skills that Harry will use against the Death Eaters. And whereas surely a guy of this much power, if he’s inside Harry’s mind, could probably do a nonverbal hex to weaken Harry or mess him up, plant some kind of seed there, he could easily sabotage Harry in some way. And it made me think about Polyjuice Potion, and if somebody takes it for long enough, is there a risk for Dissociative Identity Disorder where you actually start to believe the person that you are? Is it possible that Barty Crouch is just getting so into Moody’s character that he’s just excited, feeding off of these kids, and leaning into his role as the zany professor…

[Eric and Micah laugh]

Katie: … just knowing that the stronger Harry is… in the back of his mind he’s justifying it like, the stronger Harry is, the more Voldemort will appreciate the fight or something. He could be making up all kinds of lies to himself.

Andrew: Ooh. Right.

Eric: Maybe. I do think there’s… in the LARP community we call it character bleed.

Katie: Oh, sure, okay.

Eric: I do think that Crouch has some character bleed here.

Katie: There it goes, yeah.

Eric: “Professor Moody! Professor Moody!” He loves being called that.

Andrew: So fascinating.

Katie: And he was in Azkaban; he could be really enjoying his time here.

Andrew: Yeah. I keep coming back to Eric, too, complimenting Barty Crouch, Jr. a few weeks ago, being like, “I’m impressed by you.” And at first I was like, “Wait, what?”, but as we continue to read and as we continue to analyze, I get it. These points being brought up… what a fascinating character!

[Andrew and Katie laugh]

Katie: Seriously.

Eric: Really interesting, yeah. And it’s like… he likes Voldemort, or he is at one point… he’s on Voldemort’s side. He’s willing to be part of this plot to get Harry to go to meet Voldemort and die. But he also really wants to train Harry a little bit, to kind of give the Death Eaters a run for their money, and there is something pretty sick about it. It’s the playing with your food before you’re eating it. But actually, Harry is thankful, and I think in the future, Harry really credits Fakey for even just… he’s the one who tells him to become an Auror. That is a life path that Harry does go down, so it definitely… we can’t discredit the impact that this Death Eater disguised teacher has on Harry’s development. It’s really interesting.

Katie: Nor can we forget that he does sleep next to a body in the trunk every night…

[Andrew makes a disgusted, shuddering noise]

Eric: What a creep.

Katie: … so layer upon layer of complexity there, to the point where Harry asks about it, and he’s like, “Yeah, it’s got some cool stuff. Ha ha.”

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: ZN in the Discord says that Fakey is love bombing Harry. [laughs]

Andrew: Oh my gosh.

Katie: Yes.

Micah: For Valentine’s Day, of course.

Eric: Yay.

Micah: I think he just really enjoys it, though. I think there’s something about him that loves the fact that Harry is resisting this…

Eric: Yes.

Micah: … and it presents a bit of a challenge that he maybe wasn’t expecting. So I also think that there’s a connecting the threads bit here to Lupin, because with Expecto Patronum, how many times does Lupin push Harry till he finally gets it right? Much like Moody does the same thing here, until he’s finally able to resist the Imperius Curse. So there’s definitely connections. I know we talked about Umbridge earlier, but there’s a bit of a connection here with Lupin as well.

Andrew: We are going to discuss whether or not Harry’s Horcrux could be in play in this scene, but first, we’re going to take a quick break. We’ll be right back.

[Ad break]

Micah: One thing I wanted to call out – because we are pretty good at identifying moments throughout the series now that we know that Harry is part Horcrux – and this is a moment I feel like…

Eric: Wait, what?

[Andrew and Katie laugh]

Micah: Oh, sorry. Did you not finish Book 7? I know you didn’t like it.

Eric: Spoilers! When did this happen?

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: I wanted to ask, is Harry resisting in this moment the Imperius Curse? Or is the Horcrux resisting?

Eric: I love this question.

Micah: Because one would assume Voldemort is extremely good at resisting the Imperius Curse, and we hear a voice talking back to Harry inside of his head. Now, I don’t want to take anything away from Harry. We know he’s good at Defense Against the Dark Arts; it’s his best subject. But I also feel like… we often throw out the question, is it his best subject because it was one of Tom Riddle’s best subjects? Harry is not really good at anything.

Katie: I don’t think we ever hear Harry have an internal argument with himself ever except for this one moment, so it is probably a coincidence, though. But interesting that it’s also in the centerpiece book of the seven.

Eric: Could be hinting at what’s to come. Yeah, I like the idea that he hears this other voice when he’s in a trance-like state, so he’s able to connect on a totally deep level with another persona, or another personality is here. I do think it… I love this theory. And normally when we ask the question “Is Harry’s Horcrux giving him an advantage here?”, I would usually say no, in the earlier books especially. But in this case, I’m prepared to endorse that, Micah. I’m prepared to say this is the first real time where the Horcrux really shines; it’s because Harry has something that the other students don’t. No other student is as good or fails to be completely controlled the first time, but Harry is, and I think it’s because when Harry’s mind is wiped with the Imperius Curse, there’s still someone else there.

Andrew: Also, just want to throw out a little foreshadow alert, because Harry says, “The way [Moody] talks, you’d think we were all going to be attacked any second.”

[Foreshadowing sound effect plays]

Andrew: I’d say that’s foreshadowing what’s going to be happening at the end of this book. So now let’s move on to the other half of this discussion, the excitement around the Triwizard Tournament. So the Beauxbatons and Durmstrang students are arriving on Halloween Eve, and the students are very excited. Though Ron’s mood is a little dampered because we learn that Hufflepuff’s Cedric Diggory will be putting his name in the Goblet, and Ron clearly does not like him. [laughs] He said, “That idiot, Hogwarts champion?” And Hermione thinks Ron doesn’t like him because he beat Gryffindor at Quidditch, and then Ron retorts that Hermione just likes him because he’s handsome.

Eric: The first thing I think of when I hear Ron saying, “Cedric, that idiot?” is you don’t even know him! When would Ron and Cedric have interacted? At least Harry and Cedric have actually played on the same team; they played a game together. Ron is just bandwagoning, and I think he’s doing it because he was probably next to Harry when Amos Diggory at the beginning of the year was like, “Oh, my son beat Harry in Quidditch,” and “Isn’t he awesome,” and stuff. But the thing is, that was Cedric’s dad. Cedric himself is a class act. Cedric is such a class act that that the Goblet of Fire picks him to be Hogwarts champion. So I just think it’s unfair for Ron to…

Micah: Remember, he wanted a rematch. He offered Harry a rematch, right? At the end Prisoner of Azkaban or in the book somewhere.

Eric: That’s exactly it. Yeah, well, he had requested when he found out why Harry fell off his broom.

Andrew: So it just comes down to looks, then, right? Ron knows Cedric is a good-looking guy…

Katie: He’s a Chad and Ron’s not, and Ron’s being mad about it.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: I mean, Ron basically admits it comes down to looks. He says to Hermione, “You like him just because he’s handsome.” That’s a classic thing that happens in school. You’re jealous…

Micah: This is a lovers’ quarrel, though.

Andrew: Yes, yes. Happy Valentine’s Day.

Katie: Mhmm. Beginning.

Eric: This is Ron’s character flaw; we know this. And he’s pre-attacking and he’s getting pre-defensive for no reason against any potential threats in his pursuit of Hermione.

Micah: Totally. I also thought it could be fun to talk about Ron from the standpoint of… for all we’ve seen through these first couple books, he’s very much Team Gryffindor. He hasn’t expanded to be anything more than that yet. And that obviously changes very quickly once Harry’s name comes out of the Goblet of Fire and he’s all about Cedric, as opposed to being about Harry, but it’s also just a maturity thing, I think, for Ron, where he’s grown up knowing Gryffindor, but he’s not grown enough yet to see how… kind of being Team Hogwarts. He’s like, “If Cedric’s name does come out of the Goblet of Fire,” which it obviously does, he’s not willing at this time to be accepting of that. He wouldn’t get behind somebody who is representing his entire school, not just Hufflepuff. So I think, as we talked about in the previous chapter with Ron related to SPEW, he’s got a lot of growing up to do.

Katie: This is a tough book for Ron. A lot of growing pains.

Andrew: No, it is a good point, Micah. And it is a bummer that Ron isn’t in a position where he could be Team Hogwarts instead of Team… Myself.

[Andrew and Katie laugh]

Andrew: So the faculty is very excited about today as well, and the school wants to put its best foot forward; the school is undergoing an extra thorough cleaning. And this reminded me of when big events happen in the Muggle world in cities. I’ll always remember growing up in South Jersey, the Democratic or Republican National Convention was coming to Philadelphia, just over the river from me, and oh boy was Philadelphia cleaning itself up!

[Katie laughs]

Andrew: You know those dividers in the road? Those cement dividers in the middle of the road to separate opposing traffic? They were painting bricks on the cement dividers to make it look classier.

[Katie laughs]

Andrew: Stuff like that. When a head of state comes into the country, a city cleans up. We were hearing about that happening in San Francisco a few months ago. It’s time to go undergo an extra thorough cleaning. [laughs]

Katie: Oh my God.

Eric: That’s a great example. I just think, yeah, it’s funny because growing up, somebody coming over – who’s not normally over and used to your level of cleanliness, let’s just say – was the main impetus to actually do cleaning. It’s like no matter who it is, you really want to put your best foot forward, and so it’s fun to see… I guess I would say cooperation, but it all just seems like it’s just mostly Filch who’s going around and having to clean up Hogwarts. Also, the funnier thing about this to me is it’s a medieval castle. There’s no way you can get super… unless they start painting the bricks.

[Eric and Katie laugh]

Katie: Paint a coat of gloss on everything.

Eric: Yeah, yeah, there’s no way to really get it to look nicer. And what does nicer even mean? More modern, necessarily?

Katie: Yeah. This just occurred to me that it’s almost a bit of foreshadowing for the Yule Ball, too, because in a few chapters, we’ll hear about how all the people are doing this to their own hair and looks the same way in anticipation of showing up. We get a similar thing with how Sprout and Hagrid, how everyone’s taming themselves, and it’s fun. There’s a lot of makeovers in this book.

Eric: It’s kind of a meme behavior, these trends that are coming out of this event, in the original meaning of meme.

Micah: Eric just brought up Filch, but I really do hope they give him some assistance. I don’t think it’s fair that they would make him clean the entire castle with no magical help at all from any of the other professors, or students for that matter.

Eric: This is the book where it’s all about house-elves. House-elves are probably helping…

Micah: They probably are.

Eric: … which doesn’t necessarily make us feel better. But I know that in the Jim Kay illustrated version, there’s a house-elf cleaning, so pick your poison.

Katie: Yeah. And it’s funny how cleaning is reserved for detention. It’s kind of troubling that none of these students are learning the self-care of cleanliness in a way.

Eric: Oh my gosh. That’s a great point, Katie. [laughs]

Katie: It just came to me, like…

Andrew: Well, and honestly, that happens in the Muggle world too. Your parent might punish you by being like, “Go mow the lawn,” or “Go clean your room,” or stuff like that.

Katie: Sure.

Andrew: But you’re so right.

Eric: Yeah, but what about pride?

Katie: Pride, yes!

Eric: What about the school pride and…?

Andrew: “Let’s all chip in together.”

Eric: Yeah, like, “Let’s all volunteer.” “We’re taking volunteers to go mow the Quidditch pitch,” or something that never happens.

Katie: You’re 16/17; make your own bed!

[Andrew laughs]

Katie: How are you getting ready for the real world? I should hope.

Eric: They’re coddled in their beds by the house-elves.

Katie: So coddled.

Eric: It’s funny that nobody at Hogwarts has learned the everyday magic of tidying up.

Andrew: Yes, ah, you’re making a reference to the Marie Kondo book of the same name. I love cleaning. I’ve always been somebody who really enjoys cleaning.

Eric: It’s good, yeah.

Andrew: Kids, if your parents are punishing you with cleaning things when you’ve been bad, enjoy it. Listen to MuggleCast – or MuggleCats – while you’re cleaning up, or maybe…

Katie: Right.

Eric: Dear Forrest, dear Luke, surprise your parents; tell them MuggleCast has recommended that you clean something, and ask your parents where they would like the help.

Andrew: “I’ll do my chores, and you don’t even have to pay me a dollar. I’ll do it for free, because I hear cleaning is a cool thing to do.”

Eric: Well, don’t do that, because your labor has value.

[Everyone laughs]

Katie: I love cooking and folding laundry to MuggleCast, so it all works. That’s my thing.

Andrew, Eric, and Micah: Aww.

Andrew: Basically, what we’re saying is it can feel good to step away from a screen. It could feel therapeutic.

Eric: I’d be folding laundry right now; I just don’t have clean laundry right now.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: I need to wash it first.

Micah: Unless you’re playing Luigi’s Mansion; then you could be staring at a screen and feeling good about cleaning things up at the same time.

Eric: It’s so satisfying when the ghosts go [makes wubbly sound]

Andrew: Oh, yeah, that sound is so satisfying. I so agree. All right, so the other schools do arrive, and it’s very different than the movie.

Katie: Oh, boy. Yeah.

Micah: So I think there’s a huge opportunity for the TV show to Max this…

[“Max that” sound effect plays]

Micah: … because we get it at the end of the movie, right? When both Beauxbatons and Durmstrang are leaving, but their entrances are so freaking cool and all we get in the movie is just the doors of the Great Hall busting open, some cartwheels and butterflies, and that’s it. [laughs]

Katie: Blown kisses for the pretty French girls and then extreme physical Cossack dancing for all of the big burly guys.

Eric: At least we do get to see the vehicles fly away at the end of the movie.

Micah: Yeah, but…

Eric: But it definitely, I think, suffered in the adaptation from over condensation here.

Katie: Yeah, these are epic arrivals.

Andrew: So in terms of how the movie does it, of course, Durmstrang is all men. Beauxbatons… [pronounces it “Bow-battens”] Beauxbatons… [pronounces it in French] I always say it differently – all women.

Eric: That’s okay, Andrew, we’re working on it. We have all the book to get it right.

[Andrew and Katie laugh]

Eric: By Chapter 38, you’re going to be like, “Beauxbatons. Why did I ever say it any different?”

Micah: In fairness to Andrew, Michael Gambon’s Dumbledore also says “Bow-battens.”

Andrew: Oh, maybe that’s where it’s coming from.

Katie: [laughs] Of course he does.

Andrew: Because I’m one of the only five people on Earth who liked Michael Gambon’s portrayal of Dumbledore.

Eric: It’s true.

Andrew: Anyway, this whole movie portrayal of an all-guys school and all-girls school, it doesn’t really make sense, because if these schools are boys only or girls only, where do the other students who aren’t boys or girls, respectively, go to school? And why aren’t they competing in the Triwizard Tournament? It doesn’t make sense. [laughs]

Katie: No.

Eric: Didn’t you know that there are no French men, Andrew?

[Katie laughs]

Andrew: Oh, that’s it. Okay. Micah, you were just over in Paris. Can you confirm that?

Micah: That is a lie.

Andrew: Oh, okay. So the Beauxbatons arrive via a powder blue giant horse-drawn carriage, and Harry notes Madame Maxime’s height, and we get a sense of her accent in the writing as well, which is honestly very fun to read, I think, similar to how Hagrid’s manner of speaking is very fun to read. And reading this area and knowing that they later will be in a relationship, Hagrid and Maxime, it almost feels like Dumbledore is being a wingman for Hagrid, because Dumbledore says that “Hagrid will take excellent care of your horses; don’t worry about it.” And she also says that her horses only drink single-malt whiskey, which I think will be music to Hagrid’s ears.

[Andrew and Katie laugh]

Eric: Only the finest single-malt whiskey.

Katie: He’s got barrels of it. He’s been waiting for this moment.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Micah: I can get some AI of Dumbledore being Hagrid’s wingman, if you’d like. No?

Eric: No.

Micah: Maybe?

Andrew: I like it.

Katie: I’m not sure what that would look like. I guess he’d be at a bar, an establishment with Hagrid perhaps, or looking at Tinder together.

Eric: The thing for me – I think we’re just not used to seeing it through Harry’s eyes or whatever – but this is perfectly on the dot stately behavior. The delegations are arriving; they’re welcoming each other. Dumbledore has his kiss of her hand, Maxime’s hand, and the “Yes, I assure you, your horses will be well taken care of. Our gamekeeper will take care of… our Care of Magical Creatures teacher…” so he is doing Hagrid a solid, but at the same time, I think that it’s just very… it just is Hagrid’s lucky day, really…

Katie: Right.

Eric: … that he’s the one who’s going to be able to handle these massive horses. Also, I don’t think we ever get a real explanation as to why they are the way that they are.

Katie: Like, why they drink whiskey? What’s part of their gastro-intestinal…? [laughs]

Eric: I mean, they drink whiskey because they’re badass, and that’s what I keep telling myself.

Katie: Do they eat? [laughs] They only drink whiskey.

Eric: Well, whiskey is a meal, actually. I think it’s three of the seven on the food pyramid, yeah.

[Andrew laughs]

Katie: Okay. Got it.

Eric: It’s sugar because of alcohol… anyway, I’m not going to… yeah.

Katie: [laughs] Right, yeah. I do headcanon that Dumbledore is a matchmaker and that that’s how he puts his powers of manipulation and love for drama to good use, is just by setting people up with little concern. Although, to your point, Eric, this is just a diplomatic gesture.

Andrew: Amazing. No, I love it.

Katie: A little bit of both, perhaps.

Andrew: I think I’ve said on the show before that Dumbledore being so old and having been at Hogwarts for so long, he needs ways to keep himself entertained, and here’s a great way: playing matchmaker for some homies.

Micah: Because clearly, he’s not paying attention to what’s going on his classes, so he might as well just be a wingman.

[Katie laughs]

Andrew: Yeah. And I mean, sorry to bring the mood down, but what if he’s…? If he has to also conceal his sexuality, or he feels like he has to stay in the closet, then he’s also playing matchmaker to kind of distract himself.

Katie: I’ve written some fanfiction with this premise, but I won’t talk about it here.

Andrew: Ooh!

Katie: We don’t have to include this in the show, but I’ll tell you about it later. [laughs]

Andrew: Oh, this sounds interesting.

Katie: Maybe for the bonus.

Andrew: No, tell us.

Katie: The premise is Arthur and Molly’s time at Hogwarts, and Madame Pomfrey is like a Meredith Grey type of young healer coming to the school, and Dumbledore… this was before Potter-no-more released the background on Minerva McGonagall, but Dumbledore and McGonagall are on the same team, and he positions them together. He sends Minerva to Pomfrey’s room before the feast, where she’s very nervous, with a little bit of Scotch, too, to just calm her nerves, and things happen.

Andrew: Wow. Oh, interesting.

Katie: And Dumbledore is pulling the strings the whole time.

Andrew: Wow!

Micah: Before we move on to Durmstrang, I did just want to ask about Madame Maxime. I know we touched a little bit on her appearance and how she’s introduced in this book, but this is certainly something we could talk more about in terms of how the French are represented in Goblet of Fire and beyond, as we spend more time with Fleur. But it’s definitely coming from a certain… perspective, is probably the best way to frame it for right now. And I’m sure Chloé could provide some more insight here – and I’m pretty sure they talked about it on the all girls episode as well – but they don’t do Madame Maxime many favors here, and I’m wondering if it’s coming from a certain perspective that the author has or maybe others have of…

Eric: Oh, yeah. I mean, it’s like, “She’s a handsome woman.”

Katie: I actually think she’s one of the few women that the author describes that’s not either her typical archetypes of the smart Hermione or a pretty, annoying person. She’s a very strong, handsome, empowered… I think it’s the French. All of the English perspective on French people is like, “They’re all snobby.” Why, I don’t know. That comes across a little. She is written to have a little bit of her nose in the air. Is that what you’re talking about, Micah? That, sort of?

Micah: Yeah, and I guess just kind of the shock value that Ron and others have upon seeing her for the first time as she gets out of the carriage.

Andrew: Because of her height.

Katie: The giant thing.

Eric: It’s just too… well, yeah. And I don’t know necessarily, to your point, Micah, that the explanation is ever really given for why Madame Maxime looks the way she does, or why the students are arriving on giant horses. I’m sure there’s a very culturally interesting reason for all of it that just isn’t included in this book. And before we go and say that the author didn’t want to spend time on it or whatever, the author was very rushed with this book, and so I think that there were some things that might have been in the book, including greater backstory or understanding of why these things are happening, or why each of the schools are the way they are. Like, I don’t know why Durmstrang – which I thought we were just talking about being way up north, and I was thinking mountains, but maybe not – have a sinkable ship. Why? What’s the deal with that? There’re some interesting choices that I’d love to know more about.

Micah: Yeah, I mean, there are phrases used as her being “unnaturally large,” “Harry had only seen one other person as large as this woman…” But then to your point, she is referred to be handsome, olive-skinned…. so yeah, it could be a conversation for another time.

Andrew: Also, in terms of the height, I mean, we have to remember that Hagrid does enter a relationship with her for some time. We don’t know if it lasts forever. So maybe it could just be as simple as that, trying to pair them up.

Katie: Yeah, it’s the foreshadowing to the whole Rita Skeeter giant/giantess blow-up that they have down the line, I think.

Eric: Also, it’s just hard to date when you’re tall, right? I mean…

Katie: Hell yeah. I’m 5’11”.

Eric: You’re 5’11”?

Katie: I’m 5’11”. My wife is 5’2″.

Andrew: Oh, wow!

Katie: We’re really cute together.

[Micah laughs]

Eric: I bet you’re really cute together.

[Katie laughs]

Eric: I was going to say, because it’s hard to date when you’re tall. So Hagrid and Madame Maxime? I mean, they had to give it a shot.

Micah: I guess what I was trying to get at, whether we’re talking about Beauxbatons or Durmstrang with Madame Maxime and Karkaroff, is just the first impressions that we’re receiving of these foreign dignitaries, right? They’re not overly flattering, and that goes back to the author, in my opinion.

Andrew: Yeah, yeah, that’s fair.

Micah: I mean, Karkaroff is like this greasy, oily salesman with dirty teeth.

[Katie laughs]

Eric: Well, hang on. The movie does him much worse.

[Micah laughs]

Andrew: Well…

Eric: The description in the book of Karkaroff is savage but fun.

[Andrew and Katie laugh]

Eric: He is described… Harry’s perspective is that he has a weak chin, and I think that is the best insult of a dignitary you could ever say, is a guy has a weak chin.

Andrew: He also is describing him as having a fruity, unctuous voice, and I look up that word, “unctuous.” It means excessively flattering or ingratiating…

Eric: False.

Andrew: … oily, or having a greasy or soapy feel.

Micah: So he’s a sleazebag.

Andrew: Greasy. It’s not necessarily a flattering portrayal in the books either, but I see what you’re saying, Eric. But yeah, we can talk about that more as we learn about these characters in the chapters ahead. The chapter does end with a big surprise for Ron. His fav Quizzitch – Quidditch player…

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: We all do it. We all do it.

Andrew: His fav Quizzitch player – put in your favorite here – is still a student and he’s part of Durmstrang’s envoy. I of course am referring to Krum. Oh, man, so much competition for Ron this chapter. Cedric, Krum… he’s got his work cut out for him. So we will move on to some odds and ends, but first, we’re going to take a quick break. We’ll be right back.

[Ad break]


Odds & Ends


Andrew: So with Sirius on his way to England, Harry made a last ditch effort to try and keep him out of the country and away from potentially being captured. Harry seemed really proud when he wrote his letter at the top of this chapter to Sirius, like, “Okay, that solves that!” And then later Sirius says, “Nice try. I’m still coming. In fact, I’m already here in hiding.” A, where’s he hiding? Anybody know? Do we find out later?

Eric: Well, we know he eventually moves to the cave in Hogsmeade.

Andrew: Could that be where he is now, though? That seems too close for an initial arrival.

Eric: Yeah, I don’t know. It’s an interesting question.

Katie: He’s at a Muggle motel.

Andrew: Ooh, okay. Maybe a Red Roof Inn. Okay.

Katie: Yeah, something like that.

Andrew: Sounds good.

Eric: He’s at a Motel Six. They left the light on for him.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: There’s something there. “We left the Lumos for you.” “We let you Lumos.” Something like that.

Eric: “We Lumos the light on for you.”

Andrew: [laughs] But it still seems really risky to me that he’s coming back into the country. Laura, who isn’t here this week, put in a great point as well: He’s still signing his letter “Sirius.” Come on, my guy.

Micah: [laughs] Yeah, he’s yelling at Harry for Hedwig, but…

Andrew: He’s yelling at Harry; he says, “Change owls when you want to talk more, because I don’t want people noticing that Hedwig is coming to a certain place again and again.” But it also seems in this crazy magical world, it wouldn’t be difficult to A, know when Harry was writing to Sirius specifically just to be able to detect that somehow, and B, track where an owl is going. [laughs] We’ve got the Marauder’s Map to follow human wizards.

Eric: I’m convinced the owls as a mystery is not going to be solved in our lifetimes. How they work, how it is that they find you…

[Katie laughs]

Eric: It’s not something that can be figured out. It works, but we don’t know how, because you would just… presumably, you could just chase an owl and find Sirius Black. And somebody in the government could have done this day one: Get any bird to send Sirius Black a letter and it would find him, but it mustn’t work, because nobody’s done it.

Katie: I guess people’s eyes aren’t necessarily on this yet, so no one really cares too much about Harry the way that they will in the next book, in that sense.

Eric: I mean, although, they were looking for Sirius Black all of last year is the thing, so…

Katie: Right. But then he flew away; he’s gone.

[Eric and Katie laugh]

Micah: And there’s no reason to think that Harry would be corresponding with him, so why track Hedwig at this point?

Andrew: Also, this is a chapter with some brief glimpses of other school lessons, and the Snape one alarmed me. Snape wanted them to research antidotes, and he had hinted that he might be poisoning one of them before Christmas to see if their antidote worked. Like, come on. Oh my gosh. [laughs]

Micah: So I just think he’s trying to one-up Moody. He hears that Moody is putting Unforgivable Curses on students; what’s some poison?

Andrew: [imitating Snape] “You think that’s bad; I’m going to poison the students.”

Micah: He wants to have some fun too.

Andrew: Final odd and end: Hermione again voices her concerns over the house-elves, and she’s been trying to get people to sign up for SPEW, but it’s not going well. Neville joins just so she’d stopped bothering him. But it makes me wonder, would there have been a better way to approach kids about this and convince them of the severity of the issue and her concerns? There must have been a better way. I was thinking maybe Hermione could hold some sort of presentation in the Gryffindor common room to start. Like, “Hey, guys, I have something serious to talk to you about.” I assume she just kind of… I mean, part of the issue, she probably approached it wrong.

Katie: She’s just rattling the tin in people’s faces while they’re trying to study.

Micah: Yeah, I think it’s an example of a situation where Hermione is being overbearing, and that really hinders her ability to deliver the message that she wants. She needs a good PR person. She needs people like Fred and George, really, to sell her product to get people interested. I just don’t think… she’s so passionate about it, she’s so overtaken by it, that it’s clouding her ability to get people to come on board. Like you were saying with Neville, she wouldn’t stop pestering him. That’s the only reason why he agreed.

Eric: I will say, there’s something that’s just so school about this, that totally goes back to anytime my classmates were selling something or trying to get people to sign up for interest in… I’m thinking of Student Council, and it’s like, “Oh, I need a petition to…” and they get kind of in your face about it. It’s like, “You don’t care about the issue, because I think you’re too young to really pitch your tent on any side of the fence.” But I think that the dynamic between students is really fun, and we don’t often get that talked about in the books, and here’s an example of it and it’s that Hermione is failing.

Andrew: Katie, you want to bring up your justice for Hermione point?

Katie: Yes, justice for Hermione. I do think… I’m not wrong here to think that there was a conversation about how Hermione could have missed house-elves, or like, “Come on, how could you be surprised? You read so much.”

Eric: Right.

Katie: Well, we find out why: They’re not mentioned in all the books, and holy cow.

Andrew: Not in Hogwarts: A History. She was coming up with some alternative titles for Hogwarts: A History, too, which was really funny.

Katie: Yes. What a good moment.

Eric: “What a conspiracy. What a conspiracy.” She still never asked the question herself. She still never asked, “How does the bed get made?”

Katie: Okay, she’s not making it.

Micah: Well, to that point, I mean, she’s missing a big piece of the puzzle here, right? She’s relying solely on what’s inside – or not inside – the books that she’s reading. And I think Fred and George… there’s a teaching moment for her here, and it’s the same thing we talked about with Ron in the last episode. No one’s ever been down to actually have a conversation with the house-elves to talk to them about what their life is like, and I think for both Ron and Hermione, it’s something that they really need to do. And I think for Hermione, until she does it, she’s not going to have a full picture of what’s going on here. It’s interesting that it’s Fred and George that deliver this to her.


MVP of the Week


Andrew: All right, it’s time for MVP of the Week.

[MVP of the Week music plays]

Andrew: Once again, I’m Team Eric over here. I’m giving mine to Barty Crouch, Jr. for pulling off this lie about Dumbledore suggesting he Imperius the kids. He’s been such a cool, convincing Mad-Eye that he can convince the kids this is a real thing that happened. [laughs] My hat’s off to you, sir.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: Man, we’re praising Barty so much, we might have to get a special sound effect.

Andrew: No!

Katie: [laughs] Oh no.

Andrew: I won’t go that far.

Eric: I’m going to give my MVP of the Week to Filch for figuring out – I assume it was him – how to make the suits of armor not squeak when they move. It was either him or some house-elves, but I like to think it was Filch.

Andrew: I’m going to say it was…

Eric: Filch just discovered WD-40.

Andrew: That’s what I was going to say, yeah.

Katie: Hardware store.

Eric: Wizard Dad 40.

[Everyone laughs]

Micah: Well, Laura gave it to the horses. “Respect for their livers.”

[Everyone laughs]

Micah: Absolutely.

Andrew: Good point.

Micah: Maybe they have fully fortified livers where just… I don’t know.

Eric: They’re twice as thick as any other liver.

Micah: Maybe they just process single-malt whiskey like water, so it’s just…

Andrew: I hope so.

Micah: In one end, out the other. [laughs] I’m giving my MVPs to Fred and George, just talked about it, but dropping some knowledge on Hermione and actually giving her some advice that she could follow in future chapters.

Katie: And I’m giving mine to Madame Maxime for her entrance, for her black satin, her opals, and her energy.

Andrew: Hell yeah. Listeners, if you have any feedback about today’s discussion, you can contact us by emailing or sending a voice memo recorded on your phone to MuggleCast@gmail.com, or by using our phone number, which is 1-920-3-MUGGLE. That’s 1-920-368-4453. Spotify users, don’t forget you can just tap into an episode and send us some feedback right within the episode page, and like I said earlier, we might feature it on the episode page. It’s a pretty cool feature Spotify’s got. And next week we’ll discuss Chapter 16 of Goblet of Fire, “The Goblet of Fire.”


Quizzitch


Andrew: And now it’s time for Quizzitch!

[Quizzitch music plays]

Eric: Last week’s question: What are the first two words of Sirius’s second letter back to Harry this year? I am including the greeting of the letter, which some people got tripped up on. But remember how Harry wrote Sirius saying, “My scar’s hurting”? Sirius said, “I’m on my way.” Harry said, “Never mind.” Sirius’s reply is “Nice try, Harry.” So I was looking for “Nice try,” was the correct answer. Correct answers were submitted by Robbie; Sarah Clarkias; Elizabeth K.; Crystal; Molly; Nobby-Dobby; Wink Wink it’s Winky; Must Be a Weasley 1992; The Single-Malt Whiskey that Madame Maxime’s Horses Drink…

[Katie laughs]

Eric: … It’s a dragon, it’s a flying house, it’s an Abraxan-drawn carriage…

[Katie and Micah laugh]

Eric: … Kaladin storm blast; Hermione do be spewing facts sometimes; Professor Stumble More; Sup Figgy; Hallow Wolf; and If this name gets read out, then remember, kids, peer pressure works.

Katie: Oh.

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Micah: Wow.

Eric: All right, thank you to all who submitted, and here is next week’s Quizzitch question: Which Durmstrang student asks Igor Karkaroff to have some wine? Submit your correct answer to us over on the Quizzitch form, MuggleCast.com/Quizzitch, or go to MuggleCast’s website and click on “Quizzitch” from the main nav.

Andrew: Katie, thanks so much for joining us today. You were an amazing co-host, and we extra appreciate you for filling in, in a way, for Laura this week.

Katie: It was a blast. Thank you for having me.

Andrew: And listeners, if you want to co-host MuggleCast one day, you can become a Patreon at the Slug Club level and fill out the co-host form. We have this Patreon because tuition at Hogwarts might be free, but running the show is not, so we really appreciate your financial support. If you’re an Apple Podcasts user, you can subscribe to MuggleCast Gold, which gets you ad-free, early access to MuggleCast, plus two bonus MuggleCast installments every month, and a new bonus MuggleCast coming out very soon. Just in time for Valentine’s Day, we’ll be spinning a character wheel and trying to explain why the two characters the wheel lands on should totally be dating. It’s going to be a lot of fun and I’m very nervous.

[Andrew and Katie laugh]

Andrew: And then of course…

Micah: Mostly because of what I’ll say, I’m sure, right?

Andrew: Definitely, yes.

Micah: You’re afraid of it.

Andrew: And just being put under pressure with two characters.

Micah: Oh.

Andrew: We don’t know what we’re going into right now. It’s terrifying. [laughs] Should be a Halloween special.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: But like I mentioned, we have Patreon.com/MuggleCast as well. You’ll get all the benefits of MuggleCast Gold, plus livestreams, planning docs, the chance to co-host the show one day, a new physical gift every year, the MuggleCast Collector’s Club, and more. And then lastly, we do have our Etsy store, which is at MuggleMillennial.etsy.com. You can buy one of our Sweet 16 wooden cars, our Cozy Comfy Combo Pack, signed album art – really signed by the four MuggleCasters – we’ve got T-shirts, and some other things over there too. MuggleMillennial.etsy.com; these are all gifts that we created for patrons we still have some extras of, so we’re selling them now while supplies last. Visit MuggleCast.com for transcripts, social media links, our full episode archive, our favorite episodes, and to contact us. That does it for this week’s episode. I’m Andrew.

Eric: I’m Eric.

Micah: I’m Micah.

Katie: And I’m Katie.

Andrew: Bye, everyone.

Eric, Katie, and Micah: Bye.

Transcript #644

 

MuggleCast 644 Transcript

 

Transcript for MuggleCast Episode #644, Constant, Never-Ceasing Vigilance (GOF Chapter 14, The Unforgivable Curses)


Show Intro


[Show music plays]

Andrew Sims: Welcome to MuggleCast, your weekly ride into the wizarding world fandom. I’m Andrew.

Eric Scull: I’m Eric.

Micah Tannenbaum: I’m Micah.

Laura Tee: And I’m Laura.

Andrew: This week, [shouts] CONSTANT VIGILANCE is needed…

[Micah laughs]

Andrew: … as we discuss Chapter 14 of Goblet of Fire, “The Unforgivable Curses.” But first of all, what is this, 2008? There’s two pretty significant news items to discuss in the world of Harry Potter. First of all, Universal Orlando shared a few new details about the third wizarding world land coming to their new park – which is opening in 2025 – Epic Universe. The name of the land, this new Harry Potter land, is the Wizarding World of Harry Potter: Ministry of Magic!

Micah: Motorbike Adventure. Oh, sorry.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: And in this land, guests will discover a different era of the wizarding world in an all new land that blends 1920s wizarding world Paris, from Warner Bros. Pictures’ Fantastic Beasts films, with the iconic British Ministry of Magic from the Harry Potter series. So this is basically what has been rumored, and now it’s official; they really are going to put two separate Ministries of Magic into one land somehow. Those are basically all the details they’ve announced. We did do a bonus MuggleCast on our Patreon back in May, in which we spoke about the major ride that we can expect in this new land. It’s rumored to star Umbridge in this British Ministry of Magic. What do you guys think of the name of that land? “Ministry of Magic”?

Eric: Well, they chose an indoor location for the first time, right? The first one was Wizarding World of Harry Potter Hogsmeade, then Diagon Alley, and now Ministry of Magic. So it sounds like there’ll be a lot of air conditioning.

Micah: From a marketing standpoint, I don’t know that this really does it. You’re using a government name in the title of the land?

Andrew: [laughs] That’s what I was thinking.

Micah: Who wants to go to the Ministry of Magic? You’re taking your kids to the Ministry of Magic?

Andrew: I have a more positive take on this, actually.

Micah: Okay.

Andrew: I think Harry Potter is the only franchise that can get away with theming a land around the government. [laughs] Because of course, everybody is going to want to go to this. But I agree with you; it’s a little surprising that they’re calling it Ministry of Magic. For the record – in case people don’t know – the first one is called Hogsmeade, the second one is called Diagon Alley, now this third one, Ministry of Magic. But yeah, only Harry Potter could get away with this.

Eric: Yeah, I agree. I wonder if that really limits the theming that they can do, and limits what else they can bring to the land. I know we saw aerial footage of a building, a pretty massive building being created, and I was expecting that to be the ride experience just like it is with Forbidden Journey hidden inside Hogwarts Castle. But I wasn’t expecting it to be… are there any outdoor areas? And if there are outdoor areas, then calling it Ministry of Magic seems limiting.

Laura: Something I wonder about in terms of the branding here: Is it actually called the Wizarding World of Harry Potter, Ministry of Magic? Is that the official name?

Andrew: Yeah. There’s a graphic.

Laura: I’m wondering if we’re going to start seeing more doubling down on the brand of continuing to remind us, “It’s Harry Potter, it’s Hogwarts,” because we’ve really seen how badly it’s hurt them to try and stray away from that.

Micah: Yeah. Well, that’s where my head was going. Was this initially named maybe something related to the Fantastic Beasts franchise, and given its lack of success, they had to rebrand it and rename it the Ministry of Magic?

Andrew: I think ultimately what happened – and I think it’s basically right in this description of the land – they were going to go all in on Fantastic Beasts for this third land, and then Fantastic Beasts sputtered out. But at that point, they were already far along with creating this land, so maybe they decided to redo just the main ride and that’s where the British side of this land is going to come in. I don’t know. This is just speculation, but it seems odd that they would do both France and Britain in the same land. The transition is going to be very interesting to see how they do that physically.

Eric: Yeah. Well, the other thing about it being named after a government building is it’s inside Universal’s Epic Worlds. Epic, Epic Worlds’ government building. Epic Worlds!

Andrew: Universe, but yeah. [laughs] Right, nothing’s more epic than a government building.

Eric: Yeah, yeah. Or Epic Universe; sorry. Thank you for the correction.

Micah: That said, though, I think we can all agree that it will be done extremely well.

Andrew: Yes.

Micah: We can nitpick at the name. The experience will be amazing.

Laura: Oh, 100%.

Andrew: For sure.

Eric: I would honestly love if it were like the Star Wars immersive experience where you go and you’re part of the galaxy. If you go and you’re just a desk file clerk at the Ministry of Magic, and so you get to eat in the officers’ mess – or not the officers, but the peasants’ mess – and go to work. I would love it if that were just your experience in that park.

Laura: Eric, haven’t you already gotten your casting call to be Eric?

Eric: To be the wand weigher?

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: Listen, I’m under a really big NDA, Laura.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Eric: I can’t actually talk about how perfect that was, the day I got that phone call. But I might be moving to Florida.

Andrew: Epic Universe will also have Dark Universe, which is a Universal monster theme. There’s going to be Super Nintendo World, which will be excellent. There’s also going to be a land themed around How to Train Your Dragon, that series. The one final point I’ll make is the outdoor areas, the facade, it all seems to be set in France, so Eric, I don’t think you’ll be able to eat in a mess hall amongst government employees. I assume the food is going to be themed around Paris, let’s say. You’ll feel like you’re eating in Paris.

Eric: We’ll have some bouillabaisse? Is that what it was that Fleur was asking about?

Micah: Fish stew?

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: Well, they didn’t have much of a choice, right? I mean, there’s not anything that you can really do around the British Ministry of Magic, because all we’ve seen is the phone booth and the toilet entrance, so…

Andrew: They’d better have toilet entries.

Micah: Oh, maybe.

Andrew: Maybe that’s how you transition to the Britain ride. [laughs]

Eric: Get into the park? Oh, I would love if we flushed ourselves in, civil servants and all.

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: The experience we had in Paris was was much better in the Fantastic Beasts films in terms of the exterior environment than we did in London.

Andrew: Universal is still keeping under wraps exactly what we can expect in this land. Maybe it’ll be announced later this year; we’ll see. And when they do make those announcements, we will of course discuss them here on MuggleCast. So that other news item I shared – this was a shock, honestly – Hogwarts Legacy, the big latest Harry Potter video game that we have been raving about for the last year, they are about to hit their one-year anniversary and they’re teasing new features coming this year. They shared a tweet the other day; it reads, “As we near the one-year anniversary of Hogwarts Legacy, we wanted to let our community know that the Hogwarts Legacy PlayStation exclusive content will be available on other platforms later this summer, along with additional updates and features for the game. Stay tuned in the coming months for more details on what’s coming to Hogwarts Legacy this year.” There have not been any significant updates to this game since it was released. I think we’ve speculated that they were probably very focused on getting it out on the various consoles, including on Nintendo Switch. It just came out on Switch in November. Now that that’s done, maybe it’s time to focus finally on adding features. I’m pumped.

Laura: Yeah. I will say, “features” is a very broad term.

Andrew: [laughs] Uh-oh.

Laura: So I’m just curious to know what the features are. Are we talking about enhancements to game play? Are we talking about bug fixes? Are we talking about maybe introducing a better loot system? For all the things that we’ve talked about wanting that are a little more complicated, like a karma system, for example, or for there to be just general… this is the same thing, but general consequences for your actions.

Micah: Who wants those?

Laura: That would be too big of an update, right?

Andrew: That’s too big, yeah.

Micah: Right.

Andrew: But I think this is going to be bigger than bug fixes. I’m thinking like, a camera mode, which is what we’ve been asking for since our initial review.

Eric: Oh, camera mode seems like it would be low hanging fruit, yeah. Or the ability to sit down.

Micah: Kevin Steck wanted that. Didn’t he ask for that when he did the review episode with us?

Eric: I think so, because you’ve got it in Skyrim.

Micah: [laughs] We learned a lot about Skyrim in that episode.

Laura: We did. I don’t think we said “Skyrim” enough on that episode.

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: Well, actually, Justin brings up a really good point in the Discord: being able to change the seasons. That’s not something that you can do once you’ve completed the game.

Laura: Yes.

Micah: And I think so many of us enjoyed wandering the Hogwarts crowds and Hogsmeade and all the villages in the different seasons.

Andrew: Yeah, that would be very cool.

Laura: Yeah, I want it to be Halloween all the time.

Andrew: So we’ll have to see what they have in store. I think it’s… of course, just like with the theme park news, we will discuss this more as we learn more information. But we also did a bonus MuggleCast last month in which we shared what we want to see Hogwarts Legacy add to the game, so check it out as we await official word on what they are going to add. Both of those can be found at Patreon.com/MuggleCast. All right, we’re going to take a quick break before we jump into Chapter by Chapter. And by the way, beginning with last week’s episode, you’ll now be hearing us take these quick ad breaks. In the short term, these ads will not be read by us, but in the months ahead, you’ll start sometimes hearing us as well. Just wanted to establish that as we get started with these new advertisers here on MuggleCast. So with that said, we’ll be right back.

[Ad break]


Chapter by Chapter: Seven-Word Summary


Andrew: All right, it is time for Chapter by Chapter, and this week we’re discussing Goblet of Fire Chapter 14, “The Unforgivable Curses.” And we’ll start with our Seven-Word Summary.

[Seven-Word Summary music plays]

Eric: Neville…

Micah: … reacts…

Laura: … in…

Andrew: … a…

Laura: … panic…

[long pause]

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Micah: That’s it.

Andrew: That’s it! You know what? And that’s good. Neville reacts in a panic.

Laura: [laughs] No, Neville reacts in a panic, ahhhh! That can be the last two words.

Micah: I thought of a couple different words, and it just didn’t feel right to me, you know?

Andrew and Laura: Yeah.

Laura: It’s okay. I mean, that is a pretty good summary to come out of this chapter.


Chapter by Chapter: Seven-Word Summary


Laura: Of course, this chapter sets up quite a few things. Quite a lot happens in this chapter, and I think we could take it so many different ways, but where we’re going to start is with this discussion around Mad-Eye Fakey’s first day of school. So the chapter does pick up with the Gryffindor fourth years brimming with excitement for their first Defense Against the Dark Arts lesson of the year. And I wanted to ask the panel first, before we really dig in, do we ever remember feeling this way, feeling so excited for a class because the professor’s reputation preceded them?

Eric: Certainly not a year-long standard kind of class, but there have been electives I’ve been excited to take, like if I didn’t get it the first time I applied for it and then I knew the teacher to do it. So there was a class in visual arts and theater that I just loved; I took it twice. It was great.

Micah: That’s awesome. Yes, I did have that both in high school and in college. In high school, I was lucky enough to have the same French teacher for four years. I think, Eric, we actually talked about this on your podcast.

Eric: [laughs] That’s right.

Micah: But what was so cool about him was that he let us be adults, and he probably taught us some words and some phrases in French that other teachers wouldn’t allow. And we created just a really great relationship with him beyond – most of the class did – our high school years. And then in college, there was a really great political science professor that I looked forward to taking his classes, so I would always look to see if he was teaching. I minored in political science. So yeah, I know that feeling where the reputation precedes the professor. Hopefully they live up to those expectations. [laughs]

Laura: Yeah, I’ve experienced both ends of the spectrum of feeling really gratified by the professor really living up to the hype, and then feeling really disappointed because they didn’t. But the person I’m thinking of was actually my advisor. I was an English major in undergrad, and my advisor was one of those professors. He was just someone who all the students would talk about, universally liked, could still be a really challenging professor. His classes weren’t just easy A’s, but you always walked out of them feeling like you learned a lot and like you were really respected, so shout-out, Dr. Kocher. Yeah, it’s always a really good feeling, heading into a class like that and feeling that level of excitement. I don’t know that we get that for any other teacher in the series, do we?

Eric: Not that I can think of.

Micah: Not really.

Andrew: Certainly not in a positive way. I mean, I think there’s probably rumors about Trelawney, there’s rumors about Snape… but yeah, certainly nobody is like, “Oh, I’m excited to go” to anyone else besides Mad-Eye’s class.

Micah: I don’t think you have the same kind of collective excitement for a professor like you do for Moody. I think there are certain students that are excited to go to Trelawney’s class, right? Like Lavender and Parvati. You have Draco, who I’m sure is interested in going to Snape’s class, mostly because he picks on Harry. But there’s not… the collective excitement certainly is not there for any other teacher like it is for Moody.

Eric: Yeah. In our Discord, LegalizeGillyweed suggests maybe Lupin, and I do agree with that, depending on when in the week the various years got to have Lupin. I think definitely word would have spread last year about his fun lessons. And in general, maybe there is a little bit more excitement around the DADA professors, because everyone knows that every year, it’s a real ride.

Andrew: “Who are we getting this year?”

Eric and Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: “What’s in the grab bag?”

Laura: I think the thing that’s so interesting about Moody – or Fakey – is that he’s provocative, right? So there’s something really exciting about being a kid and having this teacher who’s kind of breaking the rules and stepping outside of the norm and treating you like an adult in a way that you wouldn’t normally expect a teacher to treat you. And I think it’s a little bit ironic when you think about who he really is.

Micah: Sure.

Laura: And you layer that with these students being so excited to learn from him; they just don’t know who they’re learning from. And we get to see Fakey buck tradition early on in his teaching tenure. In direct contrast with what we’re going to see in Order of the Phoenix coming up, Moody tells the students to put their textbooks away and that they’re not going to need them for the lesson. And I can see as a student that feeling really cool, too, like, “Oh, my professor told me to put away this textbook.” And now, this is in American college terms, but, “Oh, they told me I’m not going to need this $200 textbook I had to buy for this class.”

[Laura and Micah laugh]

Andrew: Time to return it.

Eric: I was going to say, I paid a lot of money for this book; I hope we use it!

Laura: Right.

Andrew: Another equivalent is when you see the teacher wheeling in the television and VCR for that day’s class, so it’s like, “Oh yeah, I get to watch a video, but I’ll probably just zone out.”

Micah: We’re really dating ourselves if we’re talking about a TV and VCR.

[Laura and Micah laugh]

Eric: I was going to say, some of our listeners don’t know what a VCR is.

Laura: Right. When you saw the Bill Nye the Science Guy tape go in…

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Oh, it was beautiful.

Laura: … and you were like, “Man, this is the best day ever.”

Andrew: Bill! Bill! Bill! Bill!

[Laura laughs]

Eric: [sings] “Bill Nye the Science Guy.”

Micah: I’m really glad that you brought this up, though, Laura, because when I was rereading this chapter… I never made the connection, initially, between the teaching styles of Moody and the teaching styles of Umbridge, but this is such a contrast to Order of the Phoenix because Moody wants nothing to do with textbooks and he believes in preparing these kids for what’s out there. Umbridge is all about these Ministry-approved texts, and is in serious denial about anything wanting to potentially harm Harry and his friends, right? So it’s cool to look at the two contrasting styles of teaching.

Eric: Yeah. I mean, we’ll have plenty in this chapter to talk about as far as his methods and his motives as well as we go on. But Barty Crouch, Jr. in taking this role this year didn’t quite have to go so hard. You get the impression he likes teaching or that he’s taken to it in such a cool way. He could have been the kind of teacher that just says, “Chapter 1, we’re going to read. We’re going to take turns assigned reading, etc, etc.” It seems like, to your point, Micah, he does want to prepare these kids for some form of practical attack, and that’s…

Micah: Well, who better to teach them Defense Against the Dark Arts?

Eric: What’s that?

Micah: Who better to teach them Defense Against the Dark Arts than a Death Eater?

Andrew: That’s what Dumbledore thought too. “Who better than Fakey?”

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: Dumbledore knew from day one. He’s like, “I’ll let this guy keep teaching, as long as they don’t make me teach,” because Dumbledore could do it. He used to teach that.

Andrew: Yeah. And we’re going to talk about if Dumbledore made this decision or not in a little bit, too, because there’s a big question mark on that as well, whether or not this lesson was sanctioned by Dumbledore himself. It sounds like it was, but why would Dumbledore sanction it? So we’ll talk about that in a little bit.

Laura: Well, early in the lesson, something else peculiar happens. Moody references having just one year to get them up to speed on curses, which immediately causes Ron to sort of blurt out, “You’re only staying one year?”

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: And I mean, these kids are primed to notice that kind of thing, right? They haven’t had the same DADA teacher so far for more than a year. And Moody says that he’s only staying for a year as a special favor to Dumbledore, and that after that he’s planning on returning to his quiet retirement. And I wanted to pose a question here about the Defense Against the Dark Arts curse: Do we think that the real Moody knows or suspects the curse that is on the post? And if so, do we think Barty Crouch, Jr. might have found out about it via taking over Moody’s whole persona?

Andrew: Barty Crouch, Jr. I’m a little less certain on, but I would think that Dumbledore is morally obligated to inform the real Mad-Eye that this role is cursed; he’s only going to be there for one year for some reason. He can’t say why. “It could be death. It could be a broken ankle. It could be a variety of issues that pop up, but something is going to happen and you will only be in this role for one year.” You have to tell him that.

Laura: I mean, you should tell them that, but do you think he tells every candidate that there’s a curse on this position?

Eric: I doubt it.

Laura: “You’re only going to last a year and you might die”?

Eric: No, it would make them really nervous about it even more than they already are. It would make Dumbledore’s job harder.

Andrew: I think it… so we all know Dumbledore likes to withhold information until the time is right, but I think it’s very important for him to tell a fellow adult who’s going to be teaching at his school about this. Dumbledore is a good man. I refuse to believe otherwise.

Eric: Oh my God.

Laura: Yeah, because he’s so forthcoming. That is definitely a characteristic I would assign to him.

Andrew: [laughs] When the time is right.

Eric: But maybe if Dumbledore and Moody are friends, are colleagues or have a… if Moody was in the Order of the Phoenix the first time, I feel like Dumbledore would tell him. But regardless, this whole plan that he has, this excuse of “I came out of retirement for this, I’m only giving it one year as a personal favor to Dumbledore…” That works so well. It works on multiple levels, because on the one hand, it’s Moody giving a reason why he’s there, but it’s also Barty Crouch, Jr. realizing that he only needs to be undercover for a year. He only needs one year to complete his mission from Voldemort, to deliver Harry Potter into Voldemort’s hands. And so Barty Crouch, Jr. is like, “You can only expect me to be here a year.” That’s all the time he needs, and so I think it just works on multiple levels.

Laura: Yeah, no, and it’s so interesting, too, because ultimately Barty Crouch, Jr. is impacted by the curse on the role, right? He goes back to Azkaban at the end of the year. You can argue that that is his demise, if you will, and if for some reason he knows about that, or suspects that might happen, he’s unhinged enough that I could see him thinking it’s all for a greater good, right? To help the Dark Lord rise again.

Andrew: Yeah, yeah, that’s a really good point.

Laura: Well, when Moody is talking about only having one year to get these kids up to speed, he specifically brings up getting them up to speed on curses. And we know during today’s lesson they’re going to be focusing on the Unforgivable Curses, which feels premature, and that’s because it is.

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: Apparently, Dark curses aren’t supposed to be taught until the sixth year, but Moody alleges that Dumbledore is in agreement on this lesson plan and believes that these students have nerves of steel and that they can take it at the fourth year. And I thought this felt very targeted to Harry being in the room, and it makes me wonder if Fakey does this with all the other years and Houses’ lessons. Is he doing Dark curses across the board for this first lesson?

Micah: Well, not only is it targeted, it’s a lot for the first lesson of your whatever year you might be. To be learning the Unforgivable Curses? That seems like a heavy load.

Andrew: Do you think that Dumbledore may have given him an A-OK? Assuming he’s being truthful, Dumbledore gave him the A-OK, just for Harry’s class? Because I guess that would make sense to me, like, “Harry needs to be prepared for this, so I give you permission to teach them about the curses and show them what happens.”

Laura: I don’t see Dumbledore saying only for Harry’s class.

Eric: Right.

Laura: I feel like if it was just for Harry’s class, that would be targeted because of Barty Crouch, Jr. specifically targeting the class that Harry is in. I’m not even totally convinced that Fakey has permission to be doing this lesson, certainly not leading it in the way that he does, right? It’s one thing to talk about the theoretical application of these curses as a primer, especially for students who have literally never seen them happen before. It’s quite another to demonstrate them in gory detail, and it’s hard for me to believe that Dumbledore would have been okay with that.

Eric: Just looking ahead at all the other risks he puts students’ lives in this year makes me think it’s probably fine.

Micah: [laughs] Look who’s talking the Dumbledore smack now.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Micah: It’s not me. I’m taking the episode off.

Eric: No, I think we all have a healthy understanding that the Triwizard Tournament is very dangerous for people.

Micah: The other thing that came to mind here, too, was – and honestly, it’s been so long since I’ve reread Goblet of Fire – knowing that we’re getting the Triwizard Tournament, we don’t get as much class time. Was it important to front load this lesson so that Harry and company learn the Unforgivable Curses? Knowing what role they play throughout the rest of this book.

Andrew: Interesting.

Laura: Oh, yeah.

Eric: I think, too, as a very important note here, multiple hosts have said we’re learning the curses. We’re learning about the curses, but the only one I think we’re going to really get face time with is the Imperius Curse. I don’t think there’s any point where any of them will be casting the Unforgivable Curses, and the only one they’re getting close to is the Imperius, but we did get this introduction. I just think it’s an important distinction that it’s not like they’re going to be casting it on the fellow students the way that happens in Hogwarts Legacy.

Laura: No, no, I mean, at least the guise that Fakey is leading with is that he wants to expose them to how brutal these are so that they know what they’re up against, right? It’s not so much about teaching them how to do it; it’s teaching them how dangerous they are.

Eric: Yeah. But then what really is the point in teaching them about the death curse if there’s no known counter-curse and no way to shield from it? Apart from whatever Harry did.

Micah: Duck.

Eric: What is the goal? Is it to get a healthy respect of just how dangerous the world is? Because that’s a sobering moment that I can see being useful from an educational standpoint. But to me, I also have to ask the question – as somebody who really enjoys Barty Crouch, Jr. as a character – is he playing with his food in this moment? Is he teaching Harry throughout the year how to defend against things like the Imperius Curse, just with the knowledge that eventually he may need to fight Voldemort under it, and he’ll present a more interesting chase to the Dark Lord? Is there some element of playing with his food in arming Harry against these curses?

Andrew: Yeah, I mean, to also answer this question about why he may want to now, just looking at his own words in this book, “You’re behind – very behind – on dealing with curses… I’m here to bring you up to scratch on what wizards can do to each other,” I have to say in Moody’s defense, this is year four of Defense Against the Dark Arts and they still don’t have a sense of the worst curses you can toss at another wizard. That does seem a little surprising, actually, if I’ve gone through school for four years and I’m just learning about these now. That seems kind of late.

Eric: Not only that; it’s going to be another year at least before we learn about the Bat-Bogey Hex, and that sounds like the worst of them all.

[Everyone laughs]

Micah: The one thing that came to mind for me, too, was just if you’re teaching the worst case scenario, if you’re teaching the hardest curses first, then everything should be easy after that, and so I think that’s where my mind went a little bit with Mad-Eye in this situation. He’s laying out some of the most difficult curses that there are to cast, right? He talks about how you really have to mean it and that “if any of you fired the Avada Kedavra curse at me right now, I wouldn’t get as much as a bloody nose.” He’s laying the groundwork here so that anything that follows should be pretty easy.

Andrew: I’ll say one more thing to defend my boy Dumbledore in support of this idea that he actually approves of Mad-Eye teaching them the curses. Later in this chapter, Harry gets this letter back from Sirius finally, and Sirius is rushing back in light of Harry’s letter towards the beginning of this book. Sirius said that Dumbledore might be reading the signs and Harry wonders what signs he’s referring to; we’ll actually try to answer this question later in the discussion. If Dumbledore is reading the signs, he might also want to get these kids “up to speed,” in Mad-Eye’s words, when it comes to these curses. So I don’t know. I don’t have any reason not to believe Mad-Eye when he says Dumbledore agreed with this. Couldn’t one of the students go to Dumbledore or go to their Head of House, who would then report this to Dumbledore? It seems like a pretty big claim to make.

Micah: But who’s going to report it, though? I feel like these kids all think it’s so cool.

Andrew: Not necessarily reporting it in a “Oh my God, I can’t believe he just did this” type of way. I mean, Neville doesn’t find it cool. Neville could… maybe Mad-Eye was afraid Neville was going to report it and that’s why he tried to comfort him after.

Laura: Actually, I think that’s a really good thought.

Micah: I will say, I do think that Mad-Eye would have been better served to break these curses out into different lessons, as opposed to throwing them all together. It feels like a lot for this group of students to have to digest. But one question I did have for this group was, do we think that if this was the real Mad-Eye Moody, he would have been able to cast these curses so seamlessly? It actually makes sense that Barty Crouch, Jr. can so easily perform the Unforgivable Curses, because he’s a Death Eater.

Andrew: Yeah, I think that’s a pretty good point.

Micah: Could you see Mad-Eye actually standing up there and using Avada Kedavra on that spider?

Laura: I don’t think of it so much as a question of “Could he?”; it’s “Would he?” And I think Barty Crouch, Jr. is genuinely unhinged and that’s a big part of the reason that we get this massive trauma dump on these students on their first day of his class. Moody might have used the Unforgivable Curses as a starting point for his course to set the tone for what they were going to cover, but would he have demonstrated them on day one? I don’t know. And I have to think, by the way – I was having this thought earlier – Harry is able to learn Expecto Patronum and practice on it with a boggart, right? So he doesn’t have to interact with a real Dementor. And I’m just wondering, is there some way that the Unforgivable Curses can be demonstrated on something that is not actually sentient? Because what we see with these spiders in this lesson is just straight up cruelty. I mean, these are living beings, and they are being tortured.

Eric: Yeah, but that’s why the curses are unforgivable. You wouldn’t be able to practice the Imperius Curse on something that wasn’t really alive, because you’re not taking its agency away. It needs to have sentience for you to be able to control it, to be casting the Imperius Curse. And same with the Cruciatus; it needs to feel pain, and so the cruelty is the reason these are unforgivable. You couldn’t cast Crucio on something that can’t feel it.

Laura: Yeah, that’s true.

Eric: There’s no way to practice it without making something suffer, which is why they’re so heinous. And yeah, wild first lesson.

Andrew: Would he have been able to cast these, the real Moody, Micah? I think so. I mean, we’re talking about a fantastic Auror. We’re talking about a member of the Order of the Phoenix.

Eric: It might be that as an Auror, you’re given permission to cast one or more of these Unforgivables in the line of duty, and specifically and only then. I can see there being a real issue where if one side is going to be casting the death curse, Killing Curse at you, and you can’t retort back because you have to arrest them, that’s what should be done. But in practicality, what does that actually look like? So I can see Aurors being given the same leeway that we give police officers, where there’s certain instances where shooting to kill is “legal.”

Micah: Right, but let’s also keep in mind that killing rips the soul, right? And even though it’s a spider, it’s still a living creature. And so I think, Laura, the way you framed it was the right way, right? Not necessarily “Could he do it?”, but “Would he do it?” I think he certainly could. Would he is definitely up for debate.

Andrew: Fair enough. Laura, I’m sad because you said trauma dump a few minutes ago, and now I’m just thinking about poor Elmo being trauma dumped on last week.

Laura: [laughs] Oh, I know.

Andrew: I’m still feeling for that little three-year-old. All right, well, we will discuss the three curses individually in a moment, but first, we’re going to take a quick break. We’ll be right back.

[Ad break]

Laura: All right, well, we’re going to get a little bit deeper into each of the Unforgivable Curses here. So first Fakey uses the Imperius Curse on one of the spiders, and initially it inspires laughter because he has the spider doing cartwheels and somersaults and all kinds of gymnastics on the desk and everyone thinks it’s really funny. This is actually a scene that I thought was so well-adapted in the movie. Do y’all remember when we did our Goblet of Fire commentary and we were marveling about how well done that was? Because it really struck that sobering note that I think we get here in the book.

Eric: I do agree. There is one element of it I don’t like, though, which is specifically with Imperius when the spider is somersaulting. I think the movie makes it seem like Moody is also casting some kind of levitation charm, or he raises it up in front of the class before even casting the spell. That’s not the case. What’s actually happening… Imperius is he’s making the spider choose to do the somersault, and that’s a lot more sinister than just using your wand to lift it in the air. The spider is willing itself to propel itself, and that’s just a lot. I know it might sound like splitting hairs, but for me, the way it’s written is more terrifying, and I have a lot less love now for, I think, the movie scene, because it seems like it’s a lot more magical and whimsical when it is such dark subject matter.

Laura: Well, until it turns dark. And it’s a very stark moment when he says, “Do you want me to have him throw himself out the window? Should we have him drown himself?” I mean, I think that they capture at least that element of it, and Brendan Gleeson is just fantastic in the role.

Eric: He’s so good. He’s so, so, so good.

Laura: So we’ve talked about this a little bit, but I just wanted to close the loop on it. What are the limits of propriety for applied teaching of the Unforgivable Curses? I think we’re all in agreement that this type of practical demonstration isn’t the best way – at least for this age of students – to teach about the curses, but if not this, what other way could there be? I know I’ve seen a suggestion in the Discord, actually. Lisa says, “I think there could be a way to teach it with agency, like I could volunteer to assist the class and allow myself to be Imperiused or Crucioed but at a lower level, kind of like how you practice with a taser in the academy, in the police academy, so that you know what you’re subjecting someone to.”

Andrew: Interesting.

Eric: I don’t think there’s a way to do a light Crucio. One of the reasons that Moody says a single casting of this on another person will give you a lifelong sentence in Azkaban prison… it goes so hard because it is so hard. Crucio isn’t just painful; it makes every nerve center, every nerve react in fire, basically. And so I don’t think there’s a light way to do it. Hogwarts Legacy gets away with a light way of doing some of these things, but it’s really… you should stay away from it. So I even have an issue with, one, the fact that he calls the Killing Curse throughout this chapter “Avada Kedavra.” He’s basically giving them the incantation for it, and he lets them hear the incantation of the other two. Now, I know Moody says, “You can cast it at me and all I’ll get is a nosebleed at best, if the entire class tries to cast it at me,” but that’s kind of not the point, right? Giving them the incantation is, I think, a step too far, even.

Andrew: When it comes to AK, I think Hermione says it first. Because he was asking what’s the third and she says it, and it actually makes me uncomfortable hearing Hermione say it. I’m like, [gasps] “She’s going to accidentally do it.”

Micah: But isn’t that…?

Eric: Yeah, why does anybody know the name? Why is the actual incantation even shared with anybody? It should be restricted knowledge.

Laura: I don’t know. To that I would argue you might be insulating people too much from the ugly realities of the world, because there are people who absolutely will use it.

Micah: Right.

Eric: You can just call it the Killing Curse, though. I’m just saying, why arm new people? You did the curse that causes pain, the curse that causes you to lose your agency, and the Killing Curse. It’s called the Killing Curse, like, twice, but most of the time, they’re just talking about Avada Kedavra, and that’s the worst one, arguably.

Micah: Isn’t that the point of magic, that there has to be intention behind it? You could just walk around saying “Avada Kedavra.” It’s not going to do anything. You have to really have deep-seated malice and evil inside of you to cast that curse and inflict death upon somebody else.

Eric: I’m just… Laura asked where the line is, and I think it’s way back last Tuesday, for as far as what Moody is teaching.

Laura: Yeah, and I think we all might draw that line in different places. But at the end of the day, I think we can all agree what we see in this chapter is a bridge too far. So moving on, Neville is actually the one who’s able to correctly identify the second Unforgivable Curse, the Cruciatus Curse, which he knows about because it’s the curse that his parents were tortured to insanity with by Bellatrix, Rodolphus, Rabastan Lestrange, and – drumroll, please – Barty Crouch, Jr. himself. The guy teaching the damn class.

Eric: You don’t say.

Laura: Ouch.

Andrew: “Who, me? Blame Dumbledore. I didn’t want to teach this.”

Laura: But it’s a major red flag right here. He knows that he has two students in the class whose parents were victims of Unforgivable Curses, and one whose parents were his own victims.

Andrew: And a major flag of what here?

Laura: It’s a red flag.

Andrew: A red flag of what?

Laura: I mean, a red flag of… I mean, I guess you could say a lot of things. Of how unhinged he is, how psychotic he is…

Andrew: That it’s an imposter?

Laura: I mean, I don’t know if it’s a red flag that he’s an imposter, but just a red flag for him as a person, because he knows who he’s talking to.

Eric: I do think that he can’t resist, right? Performing the Cruciatus Curse in front of Neville Longbottom probably gave him a sick rise of some sort. And there’s so much work that’s being done to show how much Moody cares about Neville or feels bad about his mental state, the way he comes after class and presumably comforts him and gives him the book. But all of it has multiple purposes because it allows Moody to get closer to Harry, and so it’s impossible to know if any bit of Barty Crouch, Jr. feels remorse for his involvement. And we’re going to get, throughout this whole book, more pieces to the puzzle there. I always pictured Barty Crouch, Jr. as being a teen who was carried away by the fury of it all and may himself might not have participated as much as somebody like Bellatrix, who even Dumbledore says likes to play with her food. He might not have participated that much, but once he was arrested or convicted for it, named by Karkaroff, and all this other stuff, Barty is the kind of guy who probably doubled down and was like, “No, I do support the Dark Lord; I would have done it again if you gave me the chance.” That kind of thing would mean maybe he didn’t sickeningly go after Neville’s parents, but if he did, it’s even worse.

Andrew: Yeah, the gift of the Herbology book got me thinking, what was going on here? Like you’re saying, Eric, did he feel remorse? Maybe after seeing how Neville was reacting, but that seems extremely out of character. So I’m just wondering if… and Harry even notes that this was a Lupin quality move to cheer up Neville. A Lupin quality move! So I’m wondering, was this an intentional misdirect by either the author for the reader, or is it a misdirect from the character themselves?

Micah: Sure.

Andrew: Because if you’re suspecting this isn’t who we think it is, then you definitely won’t suspect it after seeing him give this book to Neville.

Eric: Right.

Micah: It’s the second consecutive big move by Crouch to endear himself to Harry, right? So you had the last chapter where he comes and he turns Draco into a ferret, and now you have this chapter where he’s being extremely kind to Neville in a very bad moment for him.

Andrew: It’s almost like that magical eye of his is telling him what to do to keep Harry convinced that he’s not a fakey.

Eric: Well, maybe he’s also dosing himself with Felix Felicis. “I feel like I should be on the west stair right now,” and he goes up. But I think his eye did see Neville leave and go and stare at a wall, and I think his eye did see down the hall Harry go to comfort him. And then he grabbed the book and quickly as he could ran to go help Neville, because the thing is, that book is what teaches Neville about Gillyweed, which is what makes Neville think about telling Harry about Gillyweed, which is his advantage in the second task, and so this whole time Moody is trying to get somebody in Harry’s dorm to know that that is an option, presuming he will confide in Neville or ask Neville what to do, and Neville will be able to help.

Micah: Right.

Laura: Yeah, and I think bare minimum, it’s like y’all are saying; it’s really all just to get close to Harry because he’s going to be guiding Harry throughout the year whether Harry knows it or not. So he’s trying to build trust with very strategic students, specific members of the student body, so that he can get closer to Harry.

Micah: Now, don’t call me crazy: In an alternative universe, it is possible that Barty Crouch, Jr. feels some level of guilt or remorse for what he did to Neville’s parents and he’s trying to make it up to their son.

Andrew: I’d call that a headcanon.

Laura: I think people are complicated, even psychopaths. I think you see this with real-life examples of these kinds of sadistic, violent criminals; there will be these odd moments where they do have these moments of clarity, you could call it these moments of remorse for what they’ve done. But it’s never anything significant enough to make them actually regret what they did. So I think it’s possible that Barty Crouch could feel bad for Neville in this moment because of what he’s been through as a result of losing his parents in this way, but it doesn’t mean that he wishes he could take it all back, right?

Micah: True.

Laura: I don’t think he would do anything different.

Micah: I do think it’s much more likely that, as I was saying earlier with the Draco transformation, this is a currency-building moment with Harry, when he treats Neville this way.

Eric and Laura: Yeah.

Micah: So one other thing that just popped into my mind as we’re talking about Neville – and I know we’re going to talk about Harry in a second – is this is another Neville/Harry moment where they’re the only two in the room that we know of that have been impacted by the Unforgivable Curses, and either of them could have been the Chosen One. So this is another one of those examples that we can point to where they’ve had similar experiences growing up.

Andrew and Laura: Yeah.

Eric: And they’re the only two that are shown to lose sleep after this lesson, too, tonight.

Laura: And his big finale here in the class is to perform the Killing Curse. I won’t say the word.

Andrew: Thank you. Unless you do it in the Voldemort voice. [imitate’s Voldemort’s “Avada Kedavra“]

[Everyone laughs]

Laura: Andrew, you’re so good.

Andrew: It’s just too much fun.

Laura: I know.

Andrew: Which is sick, but…

Laura: Listen, every time I played Hogwarts Legacy and I AK’ed somebody, I 100% yelled that out. [laughs]

Andrew: Oh, I should have done that. Next time I play.

Laura: Oh, I can’t believe you didn’t.

Andrew: With the new features, I’ll start doing that. Yeah, no, I didn’t.

Laura: There you go. There you go. But he performs the Killing Curse on the final spider, and it fills Harry with this thrill of foreboding, like he knows what he’s about to see, because in a way, he recalls some level of that experience of his mother being killed right in front of him. And of course, Fakey has to observe in front of the whole class that the only known person to have ever survived the Killing Curse is sitting right in front of him. And I just thought it was really interesting that this particular sequence of events was used to remind us of the order in which the Potters died. It was very specific about first his father died, then his mother died trying to protect him, then he survived. And that, I would argue, is actually a foreshadowing alert for something we’re going to see much later in the book with Priori Incantatem.

[Foreshadowing sound effect plays]

Andrew: [says in tandem with sound effect] Coming up, coming up.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: The editors could have taken another look at this chapter if they needed to know the backwards…

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: Yeah, yeah, I know.

Eric: There was that famous typo originally. Yeah, first editions.

Laura: The editors didn’t know that they needed to be connecting the threads within books as well.

Eric: Yeah, that’s going to be extra.

Andrew: That’s what we’re here for.

Laura: They just weren’t there. And then finally here, last point on this… I know we’ve already observed it, but I just had to call out the line very specifically saying the use of any one Unforgivable Curse on a fellow human being is enough to earn a life sentence in Azkaban, to which the developers at Avalanche said, “Not in Hogwarts Legacy, it’s not.”

Micah: [laughs] Not yet.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: If they followed through with this, the developers in Hogwarts Legacy could have actually made an Azkaban level for everybody because after you cast it, you’re sent there.

Laura: Yes!

Micah: I’ve envisioning kind of a Grand Theft Auto type of scenario playing out where you start to do really bad things and then Aurors or Dark wizard catchers show up and take you off to Azkaban.

Andrew: That’d be great, yeah.

Laura: Yes. That is what should happen.

Andrew: Or you can run from them.

Micah: Yeah, or you could use some Unforgivable Curses on them and run away. [laughs]

Laura: That is literally what my headcanon was for what the game was going to be. It was like, “I’m going to be a baddie, I’m going to be killing people, and the Aurors are just going to descend on my 15-year-old self being like, ‘Why is this teenager killing people on the grounds of Hogwarts?'” [laughs] Never happened.

Eric: That may be a little bit too much for them to patch into the game, unfortunately.

Laura: Oh, 100%. They’re not going to patch that.

Micah: One thing I just wanted to call out is that it was worth noting that Harry himself will use two of these three Unforgivable Curses by the end of the series.

Laura: Doesn’t use Avada Kedavra, though. Coward.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Well, he only has eyes for Expelliarmus. We know this.

[Micah laughs]

Eric: But does it count? Well, I guess it does count, Micah, that he… are we talking about when he casts Crucio at Bellatrix, and it doesn’t work but he still did cast it, or are you thinking of another?

Micah: Well, he doesn’t just use it on Bellatrix. He uses it on the Carrows, or one of the Carrows, in Deathly Hallows when they spit at McGonagall.

Eric: Oh, that’s right. There you go.

Laura: Well, after the lesson, everyone seems to be in awe of Moody, except for Harry, Neville, and Hermione. I will definitely give Hermione some kudos here because her emotional intelligence is just on point. She completely understands why Harry is in somewhat of a state of shock. And she doesn’t really know Neville’s history, but she can tell there’s something similar going through his head with having seen what he just saw. And they do find Neville staring wide-eyed at that wall, and as we mentioned, Moody does eventually come along and invite him for tea. I thought this actually read a little bit sinister because the trio are standing there, Neville kind of looks horrified when Moody suggests they go off for tea and he kind of puts an arm around him and just takes him, and Neville is looking desperately at the trio like, “Save me.”

Andrew: “Save me!” [laughs]

Laura: And they don’t do anything! [laughs]

Eric: Yeah. “Sorry, Neville, you’re on your own.”

Andrew: But I mean, he’s a professor. They can’t intervene. Their hands are tied here. That was my takeaway.

Laura: Oh, for sure. But they could have been like, “Can we come, too, Professor? You traumatized Harry too.” [laughs]

Andrew: I guess, sure, they could have tried, but I think Fakey would have said no. So maybe they assumed that they were just going to get a “no” no matter what happened, no matter what they said.

Laura: Probably. And of course, we know that all lays the groundwork for Neville getting the Herbology book, and so Moody is able to kill two birds with one stone here. I think he’s able to keep Neville from saying anything about what happened in the class by making Neville feel special, because professors never really recognize him for any level of academic prowess, so I think Neville is vulnerable to being flattered in that way here because he just never hears it. Well, after the fact, Harry and Ron go back up to the common room. Hermione goes to the library; we’ll get to that in a minute. But they are completing their Divination homework, and they have to make predictions for themselves in the coming week. And they’re having a really hard time interpreting all of these astrological patterns, and how the confluence between those and the runes will dictate the series of events that are going to come to pass for them the next week. And I thought that we could look at some of these predictions and just keep an eye out for them. I think a couple of them may end up being true, which is always a funny moment coming out of these BS predictions that we get, especially from Ron; when he’s joking, we know that he’s often right. So Ron says he’s likely to develop a cough. Next Monday, Harry says that he’s in danger of burns, which Ron points out is probably true because they’ve got Care of Magical Creatures on Monday, so they’re going to be hanging out with the Blast-Ended Skrewts again.

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: On Tuesday, Ron thinks he’s going to lose a treasured possession, so that’s interesting and I think you could argue that when it comes to the second task, Ron does temporarily lose a treasured possession. I hate the idea of Hermione as a possession of Ron’s, but he does treasure her. So I don’t know if that’s a loose interpretation of what this could be predicting.

Andrew: Can I make up the phrase backshadowing? When I think a treasured possession, I’m thinking of Scabbers.

Laura: Ah, yeah.

Andrew: So maybe it’s just still in his head about losing a treasured possession…

Eric: Aw, I love that.

Andrew: … and it’s coming out in this random prediction he’s making.

Eric: That’s really sweet.

Laura: And then this next one I think is funny. “Why don’t you get stabbed in the back by someone you thought was a friend?”

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: Because that’s definitely about to happen, at least from Harry’s perspective. Ron is not going to take Harry being a Triwizard champion very well, and they’re going to have a really big falling out. Ron says he’ll lose a fight on Wednesday. Harry says he’ll lose a bet. So I thought these were just things that we could keep an eye on, and I didn’t know if anyone had read ahead and noted any correlations between these predictions and things that come in the next couple of chapters?

Eric: A few of them seem true. And it’s just funny that they have to compare notes and it’s like, “No, you’ve got drowning.” “Okay, I’ve got to change mine so that we don’t both say this.” It’s crazy.

Laura: [laughs] Yeah.

Eric: Have you ever bullshitted homework before? [laughs]

Laura: Yes! Oh my God, yes.

Micah: Oh yeah. But no, Forrest. No.

Andrew: [laughs] The 12-year-old.

Laura: Yeah, don’t… Forrest, we are not endorsing that. You should not do that.

Micah: The funny thing about all this is that despite Hermione’s view on Divination, even she is not cool with the idea of Ron and Harry making this all up. Which, I mean, I found that kind of comical, but that’s who she is, right? That’s part of her character.

Andrew: Right, exactly. Her general stance on the world of education is you don’t make stuff up for homework, no matter the subject.

Eric: Well, I like that she still checks Ron’s work anyway, and tells him he’s got himself down for drowning twice, so she tells him to change it.

Andrew: So I thought it would be fun if we all take turns making a prediction about one of the other four panelists’ upcoming weeks right now…

Eric: Wow. Wow.

Andrew: … just like what Harry and Ron were doing. And yes, of course, I grabbed some music for this, and we can use this when we make other predictions on the show in the future. Okay, I even have my Trelawney glasses here to let me get in the full zone.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: Oh my God.

Andrew: Okay, here we go. Oh, yeah.

[Ethereal music plays]

Andrew: Thank you, patrons. Thanks to you, we can buy music. All right, something’s coming to me. Laura, I’m feeling an energy in your direction.

Laura: Uh-huh?

Andrew: You will encounter a great fortune in the next week.

Laura: Ooh.

Andrew: The likes of which you have never seen. But, but, but, it will be just out of your grasp, due to an unspeakable wall of resistance.

Laura: Is the unspeakable wall of resistance the IRS?

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Always.

Andrew: Yes, always.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Micah: Andrew, I’m starting to feel something in that box of yours over there, that little quadrant.

Andrew: Yes?

Micah: Andrew will get offended when someone doesn’t want to chit chat, but don’t worry, Andrew, it’s not an affront to you. They’re processing something that you wouldn’t want to talk about anyway.

Andrew: That is so specific. Do you have something to say to me?

[Laura and Micah laugh]

Micah: It’s actually Laura, but we’re not going to get into it right now.

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Laura: Oh, snap.

Andrew: Wow.

Eric: Revealing more than he’s saying.

Laura: Man.

Eric: All right, I’ve got to try these Divination glasses.

Laura: Well, this is definitely really awkward because Andrew tried to fire me on Millennial the other night and I was going to have a conversation about it with him behind the scenes, but…

Eric: Every time I put on my real glasses and not my Divination ones, I’m remarkable how much I can see.

[Laura and Micah laugh]

Eric: But here we go. My prediction… let’s say I’m feeling something for Micah. Yes, yes, yes. Micah Tannenbaum will learn about a new – to him – restaurant in Indianapolis, Indiana that is simply too good to pass up.

Andrew: Whoa.

Micah: That’s so specific.

Laura: Have you ever been to Indianapolis, Micah?

Micah: I have been to Indianapolis once before.

Eric: I sense that you will return to Indianapolis.

Micah: Oh.

Eric: That’s in the calendar. That’s in the show calendar.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: But I sense you will be returning!

Micah: I will.

Laura: Eric, I’m getting a sense of something shiny coming into your future. I think you’re going to be getting a lead on something new, something exciting, and also unexpected. It’s not something that you’re going to see coming, but it is going to come in the next few weeks and it’s going to transform your day to day.

Eric: Wow.

Andrew: Bro, you’d better play the lottery, because I think that’s what’s supposed to be happening.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: All right. I’mma try.

Laura: Eric, I’m manifesting for you.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Eric: Thank you.

Andrew: All right, well, we will revisit these next week.

[Ethereal music ends]

Laura: It’s so funny to me that we just got done bullshitting our own predictions for each other, Harry and Ron just got through BS-ing their way through Divination homework, but Hermione is finally going to reveal the results of her many, many hours of work in the library, which is for a cause that is decidedly not BS, but Ron definitely treats it like it is, and that is the formation of the Society for the Promotion of Elfish Welfare, also known as “Spew,” which is an unfortunate name.

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: Yeah, I’m with you on that one. J.K. Rowling did her no favors.

Andrew: Just call it S.P.E.W. Isn’t that how you’re supposed to say it?

Eric: That is how you’re supposed to say it.

Laura: Yeah, but everybody calls it “Spew.” It even starts here in this chapter.

Eric: I think Hermione in settling on this… I know that the joke is there was a much longer name that she couldn’t go with, but the fact that she even settled for this or thought herself not creative and just went with it and made all these badges… she invites all of the criticism, I think.

Laura: Yeah. Well, and I think it goes to show that Hermione is young. I remember… and I think we can all think back to a time when we were young, where we were first gaining an awareness of the world and the unfairness that can exist in the world, and we wanted to do something altruistic, and we thought we knew what the right thing to do was, we thought we knew how to be impactful, but we didn’t. And that’s where Hermione is right now. Her heart’s in the right place; she is absolutely right, but she doesn’t know how to tackle such a large societal issue as someone with relatively little life experience just being that she’s only 14 years old. But there is a big “Oof” moment from Ron here where he literally talks to Hermione like she’s stupid and says, “Hermione, they like it. They like being enslaved.” And I just found myself… and of course, I’m looking at this through a 2024 lens, and I cannot imagine anyone, even someone as young as Ron, trying to justify this take nowadays. We know that Ron grows up and he grows a conscience on this issue, so we’ll give him that acknowledgement, I guess, but I’m wondering if we ever remember being this young and having a bad take or being uninformed about something?

Eric: Oh, yeah. I’m sure 70% of me was probably bad takes as a kid.

Laura: [laughs] Yeah.

Eric: But I think the thing that Ron has is the lack of information or experience. House-elves… you don’t see a house-elf. He has literally only seen a house-elf within the last month, or week. And for Ron, he might be trying to do Hermione a favor and warn her off against something that is a time-consuming project that’s not worth her time. It turns out she does spend a lot of time on this, and it doesn’t really yield results except for her personal character growth. But the reasons why it doesn’t work aren’t her fault, really, necessarily. It’s just that for Ron, his understanding of the world is one way and it’s limited. But we don’t exactly have house-elves out there or the house-elves in the kitchen striking. We don’t have them advocating for themselves…

Micah: That we know of.

Eric: … and that, I think, is the difference. That’s the point where, yes, what Ron says, “They like to be enslaved,” is absolutely wrong, and you should never, ever try and make that argument. But there’s an absence of, I think, within the house-elf community an outspoken contingent that feels that they should be entitled to these other things.

Laura: Just Dobby.

Micah: I think part of it for Ron, too, is there’s something in the Ron/Hermione relationship here, right? Ron is very much trying to be like, “Come on, Hermione, are you really going to spend your time on this?” And that’s maybe more so the mindset of a 14-year-old looking at this and saying, “I’d rather focus my time on the Triwizard Tournament and Unforgivable Curses and playing Quidditch.” Hermione is spending her time focused on house-elf liberation. Like, “Hermione, you don’t get it; they like this.” That’s the mindset I see him being in. And also, yeah, this is very much informed by the way that he was brought up. There’s no question about it, right? Living in the wizarding world. It doesn’t make it right. It just means that how he was raised… or maybe he just wasn’t properly educated on house-elves. So I’m actually, in a way – because I’ve thought about this a lot – I’m bothered that J.K. Rowling wrote this line for Ron and his character. And we can certainly dissect it on multiple levels. I think Ron is trying to show Hermione he knows more about the wizarding world than she does, hence him saying they like being treated this way, but at the same time, he comes across as being extremely ignorant. And this is a line you would expect from Draco, but I think coming from Ron, it shows that we all carry unconscious bias and we regurgitate things maybe that our parents say or they taught us when we were younger, and we didn’t know any better. So I think there is a lesson in Ron saying it; I’m still just bothered that he was the one that was given this line, because I do think it’s kind of out of character for him.

Andrew: To your point about an unconscious bias, I think back to a comment I think I made on the show a few weeks ago, which is that they were raised thinking this is just how house-elves operated. They were never taught anything different. They never had the opportunity to even think anything different because this is just what they were raised to think.

Micah: The other part of this, too – and I’m sure we’ll discuss this more as we get into SPEW – is that Hermione is coming from the Muggle world where slavery is a real thing, and this is the wizarding world version of it. So I think she’s coming into it with a much different perspective than Ron is.

Andrew: Right, yeah.

Laura: Well, I think it’s such an interesting contrast that we get between these two characters, because while I agree that in her heart of hearts Hermione is right – she is right about everything that she says about the way house-elves are treated and all of it being wrong and there needs to be justice, right – but I think Hermione is also falling into that youthful, idealistic trap of thinking that she knows what exactly the house-elves want. Ron is doing the same thing by saying, “Well, they like being enslaved,” but Hermione is also assuming that every house-elf is going to want the same thing.

Eric: Right, because why wouldn’t you? But neither of them are talking to house-elves, crucially.

Laura: Exactly. Well, after this, Hedwig finally makes her return. Harry has been waiting for…

Eric: Well, it’s about time! I was starting to worry about her.

Laura: Yeah, Harry has been waiting a long time. So she has word from Sirius, who says that he is on his way north because of Harry’s scar hurting and “the signs.” What signs is he referring to? Is there anything maybe that we aren’t already aware of?

Andrew: All I could think of was the events of the Cup, somebody reportedly approaching Mad-Eye’s house… I’m sure there’s some other things that Dumbledore is aware of. Maybe he heard Trelawney murmuring something one afternoon.

Eric: [laughs] She’s always murmuring. I feel like that’s exactly it, Andrew, and I think there’s a line somewhere where they’re like, “This is how it started last time, strange disappearances, unconnected or seemingly…”

Andrew: Bertha went missing.

Eric: Yeah, yeah. So I think that those are the signs, but also, there’s probably a sixth sense that you get from living through this the first time, Voldemort’s reign the first time.

Andrew: Oh, yeah. [imitating Dumbledore] “I’ve seen this song and dance before.”

Eric: Exactly, exactly. And so I think even in a non-quantifiable way, there’s probably a feeling in the air, something in the breeze that tells Dumbledore to act or tells Sirius that he’s got to keep a closer eye on Harry. And apart from that, the Death Eater thing that you brought up, Andrew, is exactly right, because that’s the boldest demonstration of solidarity that they felt since Voldemort was defeated. So even if there’s not about to be a Voldemort uprising, that alone is the most concerning thing you can imagine following Voldemort’s demise.

Andrew: [imitating Dumbledore] “This isn’t my first rodeo.”

Eric: [laughs] Exactly! Exactly, he says that and he straps his boots on and his little cowboy hat, and he goes to town.

Laura: Oh no, we’re going to get more AI art.

Andrew: [imitating Dumbledore] “To quote the Ace of Base hit, I saw the sign, and it opened up my eyes. I saw the sign.”

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: So perfect. I don’t know how you do it, Andrew.

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: I think there’s something to be said for… Sirius is Harry’s godfather. He’s the closest thing he has to a parent; he’s essentially his guardian now. Isn’t that the proper behavior of the person who’s responsible for a child? If your parents were to get a letter like that, wouldn’t they come running to Hogwarts?

Andrew and Laura: Yeah.

Laura: The only other thing I could think of in terms of signs was maybe Snape has some intel that he’s shared with Dumbledore.

Andrew: Yeah, well, and I wanted to get into this, but we’re running out of time. Snape is not happy with Mad-Eye being at the school, and Harry surmises it’s because, “Oh, Snape has always wanted the DADA post,” but maybe it’s actually Snape senses something is up with Mad-Eye, to your point about catching another sign from Snape.

Eric: It’s a clever misdirect. I think the only sign that Snape knows is that his Dark Mark is getting stronger, because I think that’s said to have started around the time of the World Cup.

Andrew: [imitating Snape] “Something’s tickling on my arm.”

[Eric laughs]

Eric: [imitating Snape] “A mysterious tickling.”

Andrew: [imitating Snape] “I see the sign too.”

Laura: [laughs] He feels the sign.

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: But I feel like Snape would say something to Dumbledore if he started feeling his Dark Mark getting stronger again, even if it was really slight. I think Snape would know exactly what it means, especially when you put together the really broad public presence of the Death Eaters at the World Cup. I think he would have said something to Dumbledore.


Odds & Ends


Laura: Anywho, let’s get into some odds and ends for the chapter. While Harry and Ron are BS-ing their way through Divination homework, it is noted that Fred and George are being unusually quiet and studious in the common room. Of course, we know that they’re trying to think of ways to get Ludo Bagman to pay them their money after he paid them in leprechaun gold.

Andrew: They need that money because they’re putting together a new shop for the Wizarding World of Harry Potter Diagon Alley.

Laura: Yes.

Andrew: And the Wizarding World of Harry Potter Ministry of Magic, opening in 2025.

Laura: Yeah. I thought there was an interesting… there was a curious line here, though, where Fred wanted to say something that was a little more mean, honestly.

Eric: Well, more direct.

Laura: Yeah, more direct. And George cut him off and was like, “No, no, no, let’s not do that. He’s going to think we’re blackmailing him.” And I just thought that was another great example of the difference between the twins. We’ve definitely talked about Fred being the more, I guess you could say, aggressive of the two twins, so I like that we still see it in these small ways.

Eric: It’s beautiful.

Laura: And then just wanted to call out Harry is being a real jerk to Hedwig when she gets back. He’s so mean to her.

Eric: Well, if he wanted her to come back this whole time, he should have been stuffing his pockets with extra biscuits or something, instead of being like, “I don’t like the contents of my letter, so I don’t have anything for you. Just go away. Go to the owlery.”

Andrew: Yeah, poor girl’s hungry. She earned a little treat after that journey from somewhere down south.

Laura: Yeah. Right.

Andrew: And Hedwig was probably like, “Damn, Sirius has a nice vacation going on right now. I don’t want to leave this place and go back to rainy, cloudy Hogwarts.”

Eric: That’s why she took so long; she was hanging out and taking in some of the rays for a little bit.

Andrew: [laughs] Tanning.

Micah: I would.

Laura: Just wings splayed out.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Andrew: Yeah, cocktail in one wing. Mmm. Tropical butterbeer.


MVP of the Week


Andrew: All right, it’s time for MVP of the week.

[MVP of the Week music plays]

Andrew: On a related note, I’m going to give it to Sirius for breaking his southern vacation to come home. I’m sorry, buddy. You’ll be able to go back, maybe. You have some time…

Laura: [tearfully] No, you won’t.

Andrew: … I think.

Eric: Oh, too soon. I’m going to give my MVP to Professor Lupin, who wrote Moody a long letter explaining about all the various classes, and Harry’s class in particular. I just think that’s a really sweet extra thing that he didn’t have to do from wherever he is now.

Laura: I’m going to give mine to Neville, because I think, actually, in this chapter we see Neville being brave, and I don’t think that we often think of Neville as brave, apart from the ends of Books 1 and 7. But I think it was really brave of him in this chapter to volunteer information in a lesson that was clearly so traumatic for him to witness and talk about, but he still did it because he knew the answer. So I’m proud of him.

Micah: I second that as a fellow Ravenclaw, Laura. Just the bravery that Neville shows in this moment to talk about his parents – but not directly talk about his parents – in front of the entire classroom, I think shows why he is a Gryffindor, to your point.

[MVP of the Week music ends]

Andrew: If you have any feedback about today’s discussion, send us an owl by emailing MuggleCast@gmail.com, or you can send a voice memo to that same address, or you can use our phone number and you can give Hedwig a break. Just call 1-920-3-MUGGLE. That’s 1-920-368-4453. And next week we’ll discuss Chapter 15 of Goblet of Fire, “Beauxbatons and Durmstrang.” Time for our weekly trivia game, Quizzitch.


Quizzitch


[Quizzitch music plays]

Eric: Last week’s question: What is Lavender showing Parvati in DADA that gets her scolded by Mad-Eye Fakey? Correct answer is her completed horoscope. Congratulations, for this first Quizzitch question in the month of February, to the winners who submitted the correct answer, including Isobel; Henry; Bev; LC; Elizabeth; Zach Brennan; Jenn Penn; Lizzie; Xaden; Ollie Tabooger; Eddie; Meaghan C.; and Katie from Hufflepuff. And, okay, you wore me down…

Laura: Yay!

Eric: … also Daniel government ID 007-31-1980; Jiggly Jane Luff; Better than Potter’s Broomstick; Samwise Potterhobbit; Quizzitch scratches my quiz itch; The band member who kept playing because they didn’t realize Cedric was dead in Harry’s arms.

[Laura and Micah laugh]

Laura: Thank you.

Eric: Welcome back to all zany Quizzitch names. Here’s next week’s Quizzitch question: What are the first two words of Sirius’s second letter that he sends Harry in this school year? They’re really good words. Submit your answer to us on the Quizzitch form located on the MuggleCast website, MuggleCast.com/Quizzitch, or go to the MuggleCast website – maybe you’re checking out transcripts, something else – and click on “Quizzitch” from the main nav.

Andrew: That’s right, there are transcripts on MuggleCast.com! And our social media links, and our full episode archive, and our favorite episodes, and the contact form. Also, tuition at Hogwarts might be free – and boy, are we jealous of that – but tuition here in the Muggle world wasn’t free, and we still have student loans to pay…

[Laura and Micah laugh]

Andrew: … so we’d appreciate your support at Patreon.com/MuggleCast. Your support goes to running the show so we can spend more time on the show and less time in the scary Muggle world. If you’re an Apple Podcasts user, you can subscribe to MuggleCast Gold, which gets you ad-free, early access to MuggleCast, plus two bonus MuggleCast installments every month. We’ve got some great bonus MuggleCast installments up right now, including a recap of Micah’s trip to the UK, in which he had very American food at the Harry Potter Studio Tour. I’m still chuckling about that.

Micah: Look, I read you the menu. The menu was actually very American, to be fair.

Andrew: [laughs] And you were like, “I’m home. Thank goodness.”

Eric: Listen, this is how you promo the bonus.

Micah: I had butterbeer.

Eric: “You won’t believe how American Micah’s food was at the Studio Tour!”

Andrew: Don’t say another word about it, Micah. Everybody has to listen on our Patreon or on Apple Podcasts.

Micah: Which is a great deal, by the way.

Andrew: It is a very good deal.

Micah: I don’t know if I’ve talked about this before…

[Laura laughs]

Micah: But I will just do another pitch really quick here because I really feel strongly about this, and I do it myself with podcasts that I support. $4.99 a month. Most of our listeners, I’m going to assume, enjoy a nice cup of coffee, and you go to a Starbucks. What do you pay for that cup of coffee? It’s probably more than $4.99. So you get early access to the show, ad-free, and bonus MuggleCast for $5 a month. That’s why it’s a great deal.

Andrew: You’re right.

Eric: Also, cup of coffee lasts a couple hours, and these features last you all month long.

Andrew: And plus, you’re supporting indie podcasters and not a coffee conglomerate, so we really appreciate you putting…

Micah: [laughs] Starbucks will not be a sponsor of MuggleCast anytime in the future.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Andrew: It’d be great if there was a Starbucks ad in this.

Eric: It would be funny if by happenstance they are the sponsors this week.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: But yeah, you’re supporting your friends in your earholes.

Andrew: Your Harry Potter friends, yeah. We really appreciate you. Another way to support us is through our store on Etsy; MuggleMillennial.etsy.com is where you can buy MuggleCast T-shirts, the Cozy Comfy Combo Pack, which is our beanie and socks at one reduced price. We got our wooden cars that you can build. We’ve got signed album art, really signed by the four of us, and some other gifts that are from Patreon years past. Eric also warns us that only 30 wooden cars remain, so act fast if you want to grab one of those MuggleCast Sweet 16 cars.

Eric: Yeah, we got a couple orders this week. Man, we started with over 600 and we’re down to 30.

Andrew: If you enjoy the show and think other Muggles would too, tell a friend about the show. We want to be their Harry Potter friends as well. And we’d also appreciate if you left us a review in your favorite podcast app. So that does it for this week’s episode. Remember, CONSTANT VIGILANCE! I’m Andrew.

Eric: I’m Eric.

Micah: I’m Micah.

Laura: And I’m Laura.

Andrew: Constant, never-ceasing vigilance!

Transcript #643

 

MuggleCast 643 Transcript

 

Transcript for MuggleCast Episode #643, Karma is Crookshanks Purring in My Lap (GOF Chapter 13, Mad-Eye Moody)


Show Intro


[Show music plays]

Andrew Sims: Welcome to MuggleCast, your weekly ride into the wizarding world fandom. I’m Andrew.

Eric Scull: I’m Eric.

Micah Tannenbaum: I’m Micah.

Laura Tee: And I’m Laura.

Andrew: Grab your favorite ferret…

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: … because this week we are discussing Goblet of Fire unlucky Chapter 13 – for Malfoy, at least – “Mad-Eye Moody.” And Micah will lead us through today’s discussion in a few moments, but first, we have a little bit of news we just want to – as Micah used in our Slack – “light touch” on, to use some corporate lingo. Let’s give it a light touch on air, a light touch, and then we’ll circle back during bonus MuggleCast in the weeks ahead.

Eric: I feel like we’ve already given too much of a touch to this news just by announcing it several times.

[Eric and Micah laugh]

Andrew: Is that light enough? Okay, so let’s move on. That way you’ll never know what the news was.

[Everyone laughs]

Micah: I’m ready to jump right into the discussion.

Andrew: No, Deadline has reported on a few of the writers who are talking with Warner Bros. to take on the job as screenwriter of the Harry Potter TV series. The four people they name are Martha Hillier, Kathleen Jordan, Tom Moran, and Michael Lesslie. These are among the people who are presenting their visions to the streaming service and Warner Bros. television. It’s an interesting mix of Brits and Americans, Deadline editorializes, and they have heard that the group of writers were commissioned by Max to create pitches for a series reflecting their take on the Harry Potter intellectual property. The first round of pitch meetings happened in LA this week, and sources said the top choices will go on to the next round in the UK. Deadline also added there also may be an opportunity for more than one of these writers to be involved, and that Max is open to the possibility of developing more than one idea based on Harry Potter.

Eric: I’ll bet that they are.

Andrew: To me, what jumps to mind is, okay, they’ll go for Marauders, or they’ll go for Hogwarts founders, a series around those types of ideas. That’s my hope, anyway.

Laura: I think that they’re definitely going to lead with their concept around the books, but I think they’re probably looking at how do they create a connected universe? So probably at this stage, they’re thinking about the books, but they’re also trying to think ahead about what kinds of spinoffs would be possible.

Andrew: So it’s nice to see that there is progress. Maybe by the end of the year we could get some casting news, if they’re already narrowing down the writers. I don’t think it’s too unreasonable to expect we’d hear about, at least, who will play the trio by the end of the year. That said, whoever plays the trio, we’ll probably have never heard of them. They’re going to cast, what, 10-year-olds, because by the time they get filming, they’ll be 11 or 12.

Laura and Micah: Yeah.

Micah: It’s going to be interesting, especially with the spinoffs, because you’re going to want to establish those characters, because I’m assuming you’re going to want the same actors who play, let’s just say, Sirius, Remus, James, Lily, to be those actors that go into the spinoff series, right?

Andrew: Right.

Micah: Because otherwise, I feel like it gets a little bit too confusing.

Andrew: So we will discuss this more; we’ll look at these four writers and what they’ve written and we’ll see if we know of any of their projects. And there has been some other developments that we will touch on as well in a future installment of bonus MuggleCast, which is available at Patreon.com/MuggleCast and also through the Apple Podcasts paid subscription that we are calling MuggleCast Gold.

Micah: Great deal.

Andrew: So we’ll let everybody know when that is released, sometime in February.


Chapter by Chapter: Seven-Word Summary


Andrew: So without further ado, let’s jump into Chapter by Chapter, and this week we’re discussing Goblet of Fire Chapter 13, “Mad-Eye Moody,” and we’ll start, like we always do, with our Seven-Word Summary.

[Seven-Word Summary music plays]

Laura: Karma…

Andrew: … comes…

Micah: … full…

Eric: … ferret…

[Everyone laughs]

Micah: … for…

Andrew: … Draco…

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: What?

Laura: … Malfoy.

Micah: Yay.

Andrew: Laura is giving me a look like I did something bad. [laughs]

[Seven-Word Summary music ends]

Eric: Full ferret. This ain’t no half-assed ferret.

[Laura and Micah laugh]

Eric: This is full ferret.

Andrew: When Laura started it “karma,” if I was a true Swiftie, I would just try to lead us towards a lyric from the Taylor Swift song “Karma,” but I didn’t know what to go with.

Laura: Yeah, I wasn’t sure. So genuinely, “karma” feels like the right word here, and it wasn’t really a Swiftie reference, but it does feel like we could have done something with the lyric where she says something about like, “Karma is the cat purring in my lap.”

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: Could it be “Karma is the ferret bouncing…”? How many words is that? Anyway.

Micah: Karma is the Crookshanks bouncing in my lap.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Oh, perfect.

Micah: Purr-fect.

Andrew: Ooh, wow.

Eric: We essentially just Made the Music Connection. We haven’t had that segment in a little while.

Laura: We did.


Chapter by Chapter: Main Discussion


Micah: Let’s jump into the chapter discussion. And actually, I wanted to start where we left off at the end of last chapter, but we didn’t really discuss it, because I think it’s important as we start to move forward with all things related to the Triwizard Tournament, and that was the Harry/Ron conversation at the very end of the chapter where you can tell Ron is very excited about the possibility of this thing happening and how cool it would be for his name to end up in it. Harry less so. So as we see those two dynamics play themselves out, it would almost be good for Ron to come back to this moment to reference it, because Harry clearly wants nothing to do with the Triwizard Tournament. And of course, Ron gets pretty pissed off at him in a couple of chapters for being selected, but you can see the different emotions that the two have for what is to come. But let’s talk about some fourth year lessons. And I believe, Eric, this answers the Quizzitch question from last week: The first class that Harry, Ron, and Hermione take is Herbology. And the way that we’re going to do this discussion, we’re going to talk about the three classes that they attend in this chapter, and it’s interesting to take a look at how qualified each of these professors are for their respective positions.

[Eric laughs]

Micah: With Herbology, I think it’s fair to say Professor Sprout is probably the most qualified of the three; we’re going to get to Care of Magical Creatures as well as Divination. But what the lesson is focused on for the group of students is bubotuber pus, and this is extremely valuable for its acne-curing abilities, but if touched undiluted, could leave painful boils on the skin, and for this reason dragon-hide gloves were recommended to be worn. I want to start out by asking, why is Professor Sprout bottling this up? Does she have some kind of side hustle where she sells rare and valuable items on the underground Hogwarts black market?

[Laura laughs]

Eric: You’re thinking of Slughorn.

Andrew: A skincare side hustle. Maybe she works for CeraVe or another popular skincare brand.

Laura: Maybe. A woman ahead of her time; she wanted to become a TikTok influencer.

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: She does mention doing this for Madam Pomfrey so that Madam Pomfrey can provide students with a better solution to their acne problems, since some students like Eloise Midgen have taken to trying to curse their acne off and leaving themselves with horrible scars. But I do think it’s really interesting to make the comparison between Professor Sprout and Hagrid using their classes to accomplish some kind of other purpose. They’re using it to kill two birds with one stone. So Professor Sprout is gathering supplies, allegedly for Madam Pomfrey, although it might be her side hustle black market skincare business. Hagrid is using his class to learn more about a magical creature that he actually doesn’t know that much about, so he’s actually learning alongside the students. And I just think it’s really interesting to look at the ways that both of these professors are using their classes as a vehicle to kill two birds with one stone.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Yes and no. I think Hagrid is definitely putting the kids in harm’s way to achieve personal satisfaction, whereas for Sprout, I do think that the different subjects at Hogwarts and the different departments should be working together, especially because of the historical overlap between Herbology, the actual practice, and medicine.

Micah: And potions.

Eric: A lot of prescription medications have origins in the plant world; you’d be surprised. It’s a good, wicked deep dive. But so it just makes sense to me that whatever they’re doing in Herbology would end up in the hospital wing at some form or another. Obviously, acne is super relevant to the teenagers that go to this school, so that’s cool.

Andrew: And me. Still battling it. [sighs]

Eric: Oh, I’m so sorry, Andrew. But it is ultimately an interesting lesson. That’s the other thing, is the students aren’t in danger. Yeah, bubotubers are really weird, but they’re sort of benign. They’re not about to give you cuts and bruises and burns in the way that Hagrid’s… which we’ll talk about. But yeah, I just wanted to draw the attention to medicine and herbs, or Herbology and medicine. We saw this back in Book 2 with the mandrakes.

Laura: Yeah, for sure. And I think to your point, Eric, the most interesting classes are the ones where you actually get to apply the knowledge, so we can even draw that comparison to Professor Lupin’s Defense Against the Dark Arts class, right? The classes that seem to have the most impact on these students are when they’re actually getting to contribute to the subject matter in some way, whereas the same can’t be said for Hagrid or Professor Trelawney.

Micah: Right. And LC brought up a really good point in the Discord about the bubotuber pus, in that it comes into play later on in this book when Hermione starts to receive some hate mail.

Eric: Ooh.

Micah: So we will keep an eye out for that, much like the Blast-Ended Skrewt will make an appearance later on in this book. So we’re being set up by the author for some things to come in the future, which she often does. But we talked a little bit about this, comparing the instruction that Professor Sprout provides to her students on how to handle a practical lesson versus Hagrid. And Professor Sprout, she mentions using those dragon-hide gloves to protect your hands, much like she does in Book 2 with the mandrakes, wearing the earmuffs. Imagine Hagrid in that situation. He probably would forget to tell the students to wear earmuffs; they’d all pass out onto the floor.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Micah: He’d probably forget to tell them to wear the dragon-hide gloves and they’d start to get boils all over their hands, so Professor Sprout has probably had a few more years of experience here.

Andrew: Well, definitely as a teacher.

Micah: But she’s definitely the more seasoned expert, and it’s interesting to look at how the two classes are conducted.

Eric: And it’s also unfair to think about the two lessons as being comparable in terms of their subject, because it seems like the bubotubers have some redeeming qualities that the Blast-Ended Skrewts are yet eluding from us. And the thing I like about the bubotubers, while we’re still on them, is they’re described as being kind of gross. The smell is like petrol, which is like gasoline, when you do get the pus out of them, but yet, they’re sort of satisfying to squeeze. And there’s this weird, icky, gooey, kind of satisfying, squelching that’s going on on a class level. And I think that this is just something that is ultimately very hilarious, but feels very human in a way that when we have had something that is like… I don’t know if it’s just a little blemish or something on your skin and you can’t stop touching it. I think this is supposed to be reminiscent of that.

Laura: Yeah, well, and also, I mean, it’s kind of gross, but there are people who genuinely get satisfaction out of popping pimples like that. Don’t do this, but there is a whole rabbit hole on TikTok and YouTube of pimple-popping videos.

Eric: Oh my… thank you. I’m going to block this on all my search algorithms. Thank you.

[Laura and Micah laugh]

Andrew: Isn’t there a TV show called Dr. Pimple Popper? Or is that just a YouTuber?

Laura: There is.

Andrew: Yeah, this is a whole thing. People get a lot of satisfaction, like you’re saying.

Laura: Yeah, they do. And I think it’s really funny that you have teenagers who themselves presumably are very familiar with pimples and they’re getting that satisfaction. Rather than popping the ones on their face, they’re popping the bubotubers.

Micah: [laughs] Oh, geez.

Laura: It’s kind of gross, but it feels like there’s a connection to be drawn there. Weird connection. [laughs]

Micah: Well, on that note, let’s move on to Care of Magical Creatures, which honestly is not that much better. Hagrid is teaching the fourth years about Blast-Ended Skrewts, as we mentioned, and he really continues to prove why he is an unqualified professor. So just to give a little bit of description of what the Skrewts look like, they’re “deformed, shell-less lobsters, horribly pale and slimy-looking, with legs sticking out in very odd places and no visible heads. There were about a hundred of them in each crate, each about six inches long, crawling over one another, bumping blindly into the sides of the boxes. They were giving off a very powerful smell of rotting fish. Every now and then, sparks would fly out of the end of a Skrewt, and with a small phut, it would be propelled forward several inches.” And they’re going to grow. They’re not going to stay this small.

[Eric laughs]

Micah: They’re going to get pretty damn big. They’re actually going to be included into the Triwizard Tournament third task.

Andrew: Yes. And also, we see one IRL in [takes a deep breath before speaking fast] Hagrid’s Magical Creatures Motorbike Adventure at Universal Orlando at the Wizarding World of Harry Potter Hogsmeade trademark.

Eric: Nice job

Micah: Well done.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: And it’s cool and it’s big. It’s bigger than Hagrid, isn’t it? Or it’s about the same size as Hagrid. I can’t remember.

Eric: It also smells good. They pumped into the air this very fake… do you remember this smell?

Andrew: I remember them pumping a scent. Was it a good scent?

Eric: I seem to recall… well, I also like gasoline, so you really can’t go on my opinion.

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Andrew: Okay, then never mind.

Laura: Wow. You’re one of those.

Eric: But it’s a sweet… somebody else back me up who’s been. It is actually a sweet smell.

Micah: Was that a side car smell? Because I know you were in the sidecar; I was on the motorbike.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Eric: I don’t want to get into this. The whole thing is, the appearance of the Blast-Ended Skrewt at the third task of the Triwizard Tournament should tell you about the Skrewts’ suitability for being taught in class. Literally, only three adult wizards are of age wizards, at 17, are supposed to be able to handle a fully-grown Skrewt. They are not suited for 14-year-old class. And I’m pretty sure – I could be misremembering – but the Skrewts are pretty much all they do this year in this class. They’re just having to take care of them, I guess throughout the year, so it’s just ridiculous and absurd that Hagrid would be giving this to the kids.

Laura: And isn’t the insidious thing here that presumably these are the Skrewts that are being raised for the maze task at the end of the book? Are these fourth years raising these Skrewts throughout the entire year so that somebody can come pick the biggest, most aggressive one, and be like, “Yeah, that’s the one going in the maze”? Who went to Hagrid and was like, “Yo, so we want Skrewts in the maze, so here are some babies. We need you to nurture them over the next eight months and then we’re going to put one…”

Micah: Probably Dumbledore.

Laura: Yeah, I mean, I didn’t want to say it, but thank you, Micah.

Andrew: [as Dumbledore] “Here are some Skrewts. Take care of them.”

[Laura laughs]

Micah: So I think we would all ask the questions that Draco Malfoy poses to Hagrid, and he’s a little bit of an ass to him initially, but then he course corrects very quickly, so he’s maturing a little bit. And he asks Hagrid, “What do we do with them? What’s the point of them?” And Hagrid has no idea how to answer either question. I mean, he basically just punts until the next lesson. He says, “Yeah, we’ll discuss that in the next lesson,” but it’s because he has no idea.

Andrew: And does he answer that question in the next lesson?

Eric: No.

Micah: Well, I guess we’ll find out.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Eric: I mean, probably not.

Micah: I don’t remember.

Laura: Doubtful.

Andrew: But I do love that Draco asks this, because with the benefit of hindsight, and with all of our complaints – with love – on the show about how Hogwarts is a security nightmare, this question of “What’s the point of them?” is a question you can ask about a lot of things in the wizarding world. Like locks. What are the points of locks on doors if you can just unlock them easily with a spell? There’s no point. Hermione even admits after class that the Blast-Ended Skrewts are pretty useless and they should have just stomped on them, which was a pretty interesting admission from Hermione.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Laura: It’s so mean.

Eric: Yeah. Look, I find it hard to acknowledge the question “What’s the point of something that’s living?” It clearly has a point and a purpose somewhere in the great wide world; it’s just not as a lesson in Hogwarts, not without an accomplished professor instructing you all of the things. The thing is, Hagrid doesn’t know. This is what sets him apart from Professor Sprout, who provides protective gloves. Hagrid doesn’t know you need them. He doesn’t even know what they eat. He literally hands the Skrewts to the class and hands them a bunch of different food items including guts or liver and a bit of lettuce and is like, “We’ll see what happens.” It just is completely… what if the Skrewt really hates lettuce and decides to explode angrily? Literally. Hagrid isn’t prepared for this at all.

Micah: But you think some props are due to Hagrid for the way he handles Malfoy?

Eric: I just think that it makes sense, because he’s faltering… I think the first two questions Malfoy asks Hagrid, like, “Oh, I don’t know,” and then he does expertly maneuver: “We’ll talk about this next time,” and that is the only way to handle somebody like Malfoy. I mean, I do agree Malfoy’s questions are fair, but as a teacher, you’ve got to bring the focus back to what you’re going to be doing, because ultimately, they’re here to be told what to do in this class, and answering questions like “What is the point of this?” is not productive or conducive to continuing the lesson on.

Andrew: In Draco’s defense, so many creatures in the wizarding world do seem to have a purpose, and we hear about good purposes for a lot of the beasts in Fantastic Beasts, for example…

Eric: Oh, yeah.

Andrew: And I feel like if Hagrid is teaching about a particular creature in his Care of Magical Creatures class, there should be… there’s got to be thousands of creatures, just like there’s thousands of different types of insects and animals. There should be a genuine reason that he’s teaching these particular creatures, but in this case, it really just has to do with the Triwizard Tournament, I guess. [laughs]

Eric: Raising them to be tackled by the Triwizards, yeah.

Andrew: “Dumbledore asked me to raise these guys anyway, so let me kill two birds with one stone.”

Eric: Well, and if it was Dumbledore, he certainly knows how Hagrid is going to use them. He’s going to have all these fourth years – and who knows what he’s doing to the younger students – ending up with burns, and that’s not great.

Laura: Yeah, I want to call out in the Discord, LC is pointing out that “Am I mistaken, or did Hagrid breed the Skrewts himself unprompted?” Samwise adding, “I think that’s right. He bred them on his own. He says in the Skeeter interview that he was just having some fun.” And that is ringing a bell for me.

Eric: That actually makes me think the third task is poorly planned and they needed a creature to put in the maze at the last minute, and then Hagrid was like, “Well, I could use a Skrewt.”

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Eric: So it’s not like, “At least one of them survived.” So I don’t know who to blame about this because I feel like that’s making the best of a bad situation. But why wasn’t the third task planned? They’ve been planning this whole Triwizard Tournament for all year now. Just throw a Skrewt in there.

Andrew: They were focused on the security around who could put their name into the Goblet, you see.

Eric: Which works out so well for them. It’s the tightest security we’ve ever seen.

Andrew: Right.

Laura: It kind of failed.

Eric: I will say about the pointlessness of the Skrewts, too, this is right before J.K. Rowling released the two books for Comic Relief, one of them being Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them, so I like to think that this is back before beasts had to serve a purpose. I feel like the making of this book would have created a need to explain some of the beasts’ purpose, because that’s totally what Newt is about. But this book was being written in the year before that, so it’s like a beast can still just serve no purpose, basically. And I’d like to… I want to review, while you guys are talking real quick, what the Skrewt entry is, because I wonder if Newt has anything nice to say about them, because it was probably nothing.

Andrew: Yeah, I was going to ask if it’s mentioned.

Laura: Yeah. It’s a good call-out. And it’s such an interesting conversation to think about the idea that characters in the wizarding world – and I think you can compare this to the real world too – think that a beast has to serve a purpose for them, because that’s the quiet part they don’t say out loud.

Eric: That’s what Draco is asking.

Laura: Yeah, like, “What is it going to do for me?”

Andrew: Yeah, but I guess what I’m saying is, what is the point of teaching it in this class that has limited time across somebody’s entire career at Hogwarts if there is no valid purpose for a wizard?

Laura: Well…

Micah: That’s a fair point.

Andrew: Is that selfish?

[Laura laughs]

Micah: No, I think that’s a fair question, but you could probably ask that about a lot of topics that are taught at Hogwarts, much like you could ask the question about a lot of things that are taught to us when we’re in school, like what do we still use today that we learned back in middle school or high school?

Andrew: No comment. I don’t want to upset any parents who are listening with their children.

Micah: Oh, yes. Or teachers for that matter. I’m sorry. We’re going to get hate mail.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Everything you learned in school is important, Forrest and Luke and all of the children out there.

[Everyone laughs]

Micah: But aren’t they at odds with each other now?

Andrew: They can bond around the importance of education.

Micah: Oh, okay.

Eric: Now, my copy of this is, of course, the heavily updated post-movie version of Fantastic Beasts the book, but it skips from Billywig to Bowtruckle. There’s no Blast-Ended Skrewt in here.

Andrew: What about in the S’s? For Skrewt?

Eric: I didn’t find out there either.

Andrew: Oh, okay.

Laura: Well, what are they mixed with? Wasn’t it a Manticore and something else?

Eric: Oh, yeah. That’s right.

Andrew: Yes. And a Fire Crab.

Eric: Oh, I bet that they’re both in here, then. But yeah, under S it goes from Shrake to Snallygaster.

Laura: So wait, did Hagrid come up with this name, by the way, since this is presumably…? Is it a new species? And did Hagrid come up with the name Blast-Ended Skrewt? [laughs]

Andrew: You know what, yes. It’s “a magical hybrid beast bred by Rubeus Hagrid in ’94 by crossbreeding Manticores and Fire Crabs.” [laughs]

Eric: If he had hundreds of them – hundreds of them – he was really successful at breeding.

Andrew: “Whether Hagrid used magic or somehow got the two different species to mate remains unknown.”

Micah: So he’s the one with the side hustle.

Andrew: Yes!

Eric: He’s the one to blame. I mean, it honestly sounds like… with that information from later books and canon, it honestly seems like he tried to devise something that would tickle his fancy the absolute most. Small and dangerous.

Andrew: See, but all the more reason for him not to be teaching about this creature. This is just a personal science project for him. This isn’t part of some curriculum from the Ministry or something or from Dumbledore. This is nuts.

Micah: And along those lines, we do see Dean end up getting stung. And the issue here maybe is less so that Dean gets stung, but Hagrid doesn’t give any warning that this could happen.

Eric: Right.

Micah: He doesn’t properly prepare the students the dangers that could arise. And maybe he doesn’t know, because he just bred these things, what they’re capable of.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Eric: There has to be… look, there’s Ministry officials around. There has to be bans on experimental breeding; I’m pretty sure that comes up at some point.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Be fair, Micah. He just invented these creatures that he’s now throwing in front of students.

Micah: These just popped out of the oven ten minutes before the class started.

[Everyone laughs]

Laura: Honestly, I feel like… I don’t know; this is all starting to give me Tiger King vibes.

[Everyone laughs]

Laura: I’m just imagining a reality show uncovering the darkest secrets of the Hogwarts gamekeeper who has secretly been crossbreeding species without any kind of governmental oversight or expert guidance. Rita Skeeter; she’d be well fed if that was the story. [laughs]

Micah: Can we get AI of Robbie Coltrane and Joe Exotic?

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Another connection between Harry Potter and Tiger King is in both, somebody gets called a bitch.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Eric: Well, there you go.

Micah: All right.

Andrew: [laughs] Who’s worse? Bellatrix or Carole King? [laughs] Carol Baskin. Excuse me.

Laura: But does Bellatrix have some hit YouTube songs about her? Because I don’t think she does.

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: Was she on Dancing with the Stars? Didn’t she go on Dancing with the Stars?

Andrew: That sounds right.

Micah: Carole King?

Laura: She did.

Micah: Or not Carole King. Carol Baskin.

[Everyone laughs]

Micah: I believe Carole Baskin did. Anyway.

Andrew: I think so. I think you’re right.

Laura: I’m sorry. I’m so sorry. Anyway.

Micah: I think we more or less answered this question, but do we think that Hagrid would have been better positioned as a teacher’s assistant as opposed to being a full-blown professor?

Andrew: He needs guidance. Yes.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: He would have been better as an assistant.

Eric: He shouldn’t even be teaching. Even as an assistant, I think he’d do more harm than good. He just has this desire for danger and it should not be at all channeled through these students. These students should be learning only sanctioned things in a safe, laboratory environment, not exposed to new toxins. What if the…? If this is a truly new species, first time out, that sting could have venom in it. There wouldn’t be necessarily an anti-venom; Dean could die. We just don’t know. [laughs]

Andrew: I would like to defend Hagrid, though, via a comment I saw on Reddit. When we come up with discussion topics for the show, I like to do some Googling to see what other people are saying online, and there was a thread on this matter and SagebrushPoet said, “Hagrid was not the best trained, but he was the best suited for the job. His half-giant heritage made him resistant to the manipulations of magical beasts. He adored monsters that would have been shunned by the majority. He had the strength to quell a hippogriff but the compassion to believe that he was more than a carnivorous flying death machine. He had the courage to tell little twats like Malfoy that it’s not monsters you should be afraid of, it’s your damn ignorance and prejudice that’s the problem, and it can be solved if you just respect the hippogriff and show the thing some compassion.” So that doesn’t perfectly answer this question, but I thought it was a fun defense. [laughs]

Eric: I like that. That’s more Book 3 Hagrid, though. Now he’s gone off the rails.

Andrew: Yeah. [laughs]

Eric: Experimental breeding Skrewts for fourth years.

Andrew and Laura: Yeah.

Laura: You know what? Sometimes I think Dumbledore probably found himself in a position of having a role to fill for his staff, and how many choices did he have? So I think in that regard, you could argue that Hagrid was the best choice.

Andrew: It’s funny how Care of Magical Creatures, there doesn’t seem to be a long line of people wanting this job if he’s giving it to Hagrid, and yet for DADA – the one with a curse – there’s just this revolving door of people willing to take it on.

Eric: But Newt Scamander is still alive; why not get him to take Care of Magical Creatures? That would actually be a really interesting class if Newt taught it.

Andrew: See, Warner Bros. says he’s parked right now, so he’ll maybe get brought back out in due course.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: [imitating David Yates] “He’s parked, yes, that’s right; I forgot he’s parked.” Okay. Yeah, so I just think that Hagrid would be better off maybe traveling or something. But seriously, his ineptitude in this chapter, for the first time, makes me consider that Hagrid is there for the same reason Trelawney is there, and it’s strategic. Something Hagrid did or something Hagrid knows makes him too valuable for Dumbledore to kick to the curb, and maybe groundskeeping was not enough for Hagrid to do. Maybe he was getting restless. Maybe he was thinking he should travel more or see more beasts or be in pursuit of something more fascinating, something more dangerous than his cushy job for which he gets lodging and all this other stuff. Maybe Dumbledore hired him as Care of Magical Creatures teacher just to keep him back on Hogwarts soil.

Laura: I think it was also an attempt to deliver some justice, especially in light of the fact that Hagrid was proven to be innocent at the end of Chamber of Secrets, and there’s no getting all those years back that he was presumed to be guilty of causing the death of Moaning Myrtle. There’s no getting back the education that he never got, but maybe this was one small way that Dumbledore felt like justice could be served.

Eric: It’s just, he’s been there for 50 years, though, so it’s like, “You owe me your life”? Like, “Here’s some redemption, and you’re stuck here basically; I’m not going to let you leave,” almost.

Laura: I don’t know. I’m just trying to think where else Hagrid would realistically go.

Micah: The bar.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Micah: Or maybe under it.

Eric: I mean, we know that when Hagrid does leave Hogwarts, it’s on a mission from Dumbledore where he pretty competently gets across the wilderness against any and all dangers, and the reason he and Maxime split up is because Hagrid goes so extra and manages to actually bring his giant brother all the way back equally undetectedly, so Hagrid actually does have some usable skills for the wilderness, but he’s being forced to teach a class he’s just not good at teaching.

Micah: And look, there’s different teaching styles, certainly, but I think when you go back to Prisoner of Azkaban and you see what happened with the hippogriff and Draco – now, we can debate whether or not that was Draco’s fault versus Hagrid’s – but Hagrid also should have better command of his classroom. And already we see in the very first class of Harry’s fourth year that Dean is attacked by one of these Blast-Ended Skrewts, so he’s not accumulating a very good record here when it comes to the safety of his students, and that should be the number one priority of all the teachers at Hogwarts. Otherwise, it just continues to be this security nightmare.

Andrew: We should really be hired as security consultants at Hogwarts. That’s what I’m starting to realize.

[“It’s starting to sound like a security nightmare!” sound effect plays with sirens]

Eric: I can see the Hogwarts security consultant being a healthy job to have. It would last so long at the school.

Andrew: You’d have a lot to discuss with them, yeah, it could keep you busy for a while.

Micah: Well, isn’t that kind of why Umbridge comes along in the next book?

Andrew: Excuse you. We don’t want her as security consultant.

Micah: Speaking of unqualified professors – depending on which side of the fence you’re on – the next class up is Divination.

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: It’s actually a fun part of the chapter just because a lot of the back and forth that happens between Harry and Ron. But Trelawney is up to her usual antics making random predictions, vague predictions in some cases, and the one we’ll really focus on is the piece that on the surface level looks completely wrong, but if you dig a little bit deeper, may actually have some truth to it. Trelawney tells Harry he was born under the baleful influence of Saturn in mid-winter, and while Harry was born in July, Voldemort was in fact born on December the 31st.

Andrew: Ooh!

Micah: And having completed all seven books now, we know that there is a Horcrux living inside of Harry, so is Trelawney picking up on the Horcrux as opposed to just Harry?

Eric: This is fun.

Laura: I do love this. I love when we have these moments of like, “Is it the Horcrux, or is it not the Horcrux? Is it starting to become a little bit sentient? Is it starting to come to life?” Maybe so. I mean, we’re seeing the most activity from Voldemort in this book that we’ve seen in a couple of years, and he’s getting closer and closer. His most faithful servant is literally at Hogwarts with Harry right now.

Andrew: For anyone who wasn’t in the fandom in the buildup to the release of Deathly Hallows, there was a lot of debate going on concerning whether or not Harry was a Horcrux, and I wonder if those who were on Team “Harry is a Horcrux” were looking at this line as one piece of evidence that possibly he was, because of Trelawney sensing a birthday in mid-winter. That said, his birthday is something that she could have easily looked up. If she really wants to impress people, she should probably double check her work before going public with it.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: Her not caring to think about this in advance, I guess, could also speak to her genuine interest and passion for Divination. She’s just following whatever her heart and her mind tells her, whether or not she’ll be embarrassed by it.

Laura: It is funny, too, in an ironic way, because she doesn’t remember it, but she’s the one who gave the prophecy that marked Harry as Voldemort’s equal, and she literally says a boy will be born at the end of July.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: And there’s some evidence that she really did black out and doesn’t remember her prediction, her prophecy.

Micah: Her and Hagrid could be drinking buddies.

Andrew: Who’s the better teacher?

Eric: Ooh, God, that’s tough.

Micah: Who’s the better drinker?

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: But I love the idea that it’s not that Trelawney while conscious is entirely without the sight. The theory that she’s picking up on the Horcrux shows or relies on her actually having some regular ability. She’s picking up on that from somewhere. It’s in the ether, like, immediately in front of her, but she’s not honed her skills to actually get better at that, because I think she even just assumes that she’s a fraud. I think a lot of that self-doubt is preventing her from really, actually believing in what she teaches, because little near misses of info like this show that she could really actually do it.

Micah: But while you could point to that as a moment of accuracy, Laura, I know you also called out another moment where she’s being extremely vague, and it’s like, yeah, anybody could come up with this.

Laura: Yeah, she tells Harry, “I do fear that the thing that you’re dreading will come to pass.” I mean, it’s the same thing that she did with Lavender in Prisoner of Azkaban, right? It’s like, presumably most people are dreading something; however, there’s another reading to that because Harry also remembers Trelawney’s prophecy about Voldemort’s faithful servant helping the Dark Lord rise to power again, and that’s what’s happening in this book. So this is another area where Trelawney is written really well, because you can either read her as a fraud, or you can read her as a genuine prophet.

Micah: While we know that Trelawney’s qualifications can be debated, Hagrid’s certainly cannot, as well as Sprout. I think you have a good mix here, right? We’ve got a good cross section of professors in this chapter and how good they actually are at their jobs at Hogwarts. But I think it’s time for us to do a little bit of ferreting about as we move on in this chapter.

[Everyone laughs]

Micah: We get to meal time, and we encounter Draco yet again in this chapter. We learn that Arthur has been named in the Daily Prophet for coming to…

Andrew: Arthur has?

Micah: Sorry, Arnold. [laughs] We’ll talk about that too. Arthur/Arnold has been named in the Daily Prophet for coming to Mad-Eye Moody’s home to investigate a potential break-in. And so I was curious from the start: Was this a Ministry-sanctioned task that Arthur undertook, or did he do it on his own? Because we got a little bit of insight into it, I guess a couple chapters ago, that he was going to be going. And I remember Amos Diggory in the fire; they were talking about it. But did he have to respond to this? Or was he doing it because Mad-Eye is an ex-Auror, he’s a friend? That sort of thing.

Laura: I think it’s a little bit of both, right? Because in the chapter where Amos shows up in the fire right before they go to Hogwarts, Arthur has just been coming off of several days of needing to do damage control at the Ministry, and now they’re looking at another situation where an ex-Auror, who is getting ready to go be a teacher at Hogwarts, presumably overreacted and attacked a bunch of “please-men,” as they’re known, with trash bins. So it could be that part of what Arthur was doing here was damage control to avoid more negative press for the Ministry.

Eric: Yeah, it’s just a shame it doesn’t work. Yeah, I just revisited the beginning of Chapter 11 when that happens, and it’s Amos Diggory directly calling Arthur Weasley with an urgent message from the Ministry, where he tells Arthur that the police are getting involved over at Moody’s and he should go check it out. So it is, in fact, some level of authority of the Ministry that Arthur does try and go and handle this situation. And as far as the contents of Rita’s article, I mean, we can get into that in a minute. But Arthur is just doing his job.

Andrew: Arthur is doing his job, and maybe Amos/people at the Ministry thought Arthur might be a good person to go investigate, because as we learn, Mad-Eye is a little out there, and maybe they thought a friend would be the right person to approach his house and talk to him about it.

Micah: That’s fair. Well, I mean, you also have the misuse of Muggle artifacts going on with these trash bins, so that would also be a reason for Arthur to go out. I was not on that episode where you discussed that chapter, but that’s no excuse. But thank you, Eric, for checking on that.

Eric: No, you’re good. I think the misuse of Muggle artifacts is a perfect reason, too, for Arthur to go, like you just said. And also, I hadn’t thought about one of the reasons that Arthur wants to head them off is because this could just make the Ministry look bad that an Auror is now out of control. Ex-Auror, but still, it falls under the continual slander that the government is having to fall under.

Micah: Sure. And that leads to my question about whether or not the story is even newsworthy to begin with, but first, we can talk about Rita and her journalistic competency, because she calls Arthur “Arnold” in the article.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Micah: So number one, she’s clearly not very good at her job. Number two, does she not have an editor that checks before it’s published that a Ministry official is named correctly?

Andrew: Well, and I can’t remember the exact context, but we were talking about this a few weeks ago: Are there editors at the Daily Prophet? And the answer clearly seems to be no. This is a huge mistake. It’s not like it was one time that the wrong name was used; the mistake is made multiple times throughout the article. It’s shocking to me that the Daily Prophet would not have editors. That’s just how a newspaper works. You have the journalists, you have editors, you have senior editors… these articles go through multiple hands. But not at the Daily Prophet, it seems. It just seems like a free-for-all.

Laura: Journalistic nightmare.

Andrew: It’s like a Tumblr.

[Laura and Micah laugh]

Andrew: It’s like a bunch of different Harry Potter fan sites or something.

Eric: Well, I just think, too, at this point, she’s doing it on purpose. She has it out for… getting someone’s name wrong, the way that other… Bill a few weeks ago was maybe not named, but referred to as, what, a long-haired pillock? It’s just like she wants to characterize as negatively as possible. And I don’t know; something told me that getting Arthur’s name wrong is just another way to slight against him.

Laura: And it’s interesting because she just quoted him a couple chapters ago, in her article about “Mayhem at the Quidditch World Cup,” except she doesn’t name him there. So in that one she doesn’t name him, and this one, she gets his name wrong.

Micah: She doesn’t name him… right, yeah, exactly.

Eric: Maybe she’s just bad at names. [laughs]

Laura: Maybe.

Micah: Oh, that’s not an excuse.

Eric: She knows it’s a weakness of hers and so she tends to refer to them by descriptors that are very offensive, because it’s her Quick Quotes Quill writing it.

Laura: Oh, actually, I love that. That makes total sense.

Micah: So we’re blaming the quill.

Eric: Yeah, blame the quill.

Andrew: Eh, there still needs to be editors.

Laura: Oh, agreed. And I mean, let’s be clear – the quill is just an extension of Rita herself, so all of the ugly thoughts that come out of it are definitely her own.

Micah: So what do we make of the story, though? Do we think it’s newsworthy?

Andrew: Ehh…

Micah: Mad-Eye has done this before. This is not the first time this has happened.

Laura: Yeah, but he’s also getting ready to go be a teacher.

Andrew: Yes.

Laura: And Rita knows that a lot of these kids’ parents will read the Daily Prophet. They’ll be clamoring to get this article because they would presumably be concerned about a person like this teaching their children.

Andrew: And also, he’s in a tussle with Muggle policeman, which I don’t think is a good look. And I think that also makes it newsworthy; he’s potentially violating the International Statute of Secrecy.

Eric: That’s true. Yeah, that’s fair. I mean, given how closely the wizards have already gotten to that this year, it doesn’t… [laughs] and so egregiously. I mean, the thing for me, though, is that at the end of the day, this is Arthur’s everyday job. He’s in the Misuse of Muggle Artifacts Office; anytime there’s a teacup that bites or a dustbin that comes after you, that’s his job: to go. And Rita seems to make a point about “several Muggle memories were modified before everything calmed down.” We know how liberal the wizards modify memories. That’s standard practice. That is standard operating procedure whenever Muggles are involved. The Accident Magical Reversal Squad… everybody just sets the Dursleys back up, they set all these Muggles back up, so it’s not even a point to say that, “Oh, they have to modify so many memories; they blundered this so badly.” It’s like, no, that’s just standard practice. And I bet Arthur more than most wizards is probably pretty good at it at this point.

Andrew: I’m also just thinking that deciding to run this story of Rita’s in the Prophet is almost a commentary on the poor decisions at all media outlets. I don’t care your political leanings, whatever media outlets you enjoy following; they pick stupid stories to cover a lot of the time. The New York Times recently did an article on the number of times Taylor Swift has appeared during football games, because she’s dating Travis Kelce. They’ve got more important things to cover around the world, but they choose to cover that. Newspapers make bad decisions a lot of the time.

Micah: True.

Eric: It’d just be like Rita Skeeter following one of us at our day jobs and trying to sensationalize our daily practice, a normal day at work.

Micah: I’m actually glad you said that, though, Eric, because I think the real question here is how did she get the scoop? Was she there in her human Rita Skeeter form? Or was she there in her Animagus form as a little beetle, under the lid of one of the dustbins or something like that?

Andrew: [laughs] I think once you get a taste of covering the news that way, you might get addicted to it.

Eric: I agree with that.

Andrew: If you’re spying to gather your scoops, why not use that method all the time? I mean, especially when you consider how hard it is to become an Animagus to begin with. You remember that long list of guidelines?

Eric and Laura: Oh, yeah.

Andrew: I’d be using it a lot.

Eric: She’s like, “I suffered for this!” [laughs]

Laura: I think we’re led to believe that anyone at the Ministry avoids her like the plague, so the only way for her to get close enough to get this story at this stage would be to be spying, because I don’t think anyone would willingly talk to her.

Eric: Also, well, any good investigative journalist has sources, too, to leak it to, so I think probably somebody in the Improper Use of Magic Office is on her payroll and can just give her a tip when this comes. But I think it does happen, because this is a continued campaign of hers to discredit the Ministry’s workings, and we’ve discussed before; she’s not entirely wrong or barking down the wrong tree in doing this, but this article is all fluff. There’s nothing to it, and it’s ridiculous.

Micah: So do we think it’s fair to say that we can add one to the Rita Spy count?

Eric: Ooh.

Laura: I would vote in favor of that.

Andrew: Yep, me too. Dun-da-dun-a-dunnn. That’s our sound effect.

Micah: Nice. You’re going to have to do that every time. Are you prepared?

Andrew: [laughs] That’s fine.

Laura: We have to get a sound effect of Miranda Richardson doing something. I don’t remember what her shtick was, but she had something. She had a laugh or something.

Eric: Yeah, I’ll go pull it from her 30 seconds of screen time.

[Everyone laughs]

Micah: Somebody who got plenty of screen time, Draco Malfoy. He doesn’t just stop at calling out Arnold Weasley in the Daily Prophet; he goes a step further and insults Ron’s mother upon seeing a picture of the Weasley family. I don’t know a nice way to say it, but he basically calls her fat and dumpy.

Eric: I mean, fat jokes? Really, Malfoy? Come on.

Laura: I mean, these are teenagers, and fat jokes and insults are the lowest hanging fruit they can reach for. This feels pretty in line with what I would expect from someone like him.

Andrew: And now, I know Draco started it, but Harry also has the line to him, “Keep your fat mouth shut, then,” so they’re both rolling around in the dirt with the same types of insults.

Eric: Kind of.

Micah: Well, he also insults Narcissa and he says basically, “Does she always look like she has poop under her nose? Or is it only when you’re around?”

Andrew: [laughs] Which is…

Eric: It’s a good comeback.

Andrew: See, that’s the face I make when I go past that Blast-Ended Skrewt at Hagrid’s Magical Creatures Motorbike Adventure…

[Laura and Micah laugh]

Andrew: … because it smells like gasoline, like Eric was saying. It is also interesting, that line that Harry says about Narcissa, because of what Narcissa gives him at the end of the series. I was like, “My, how times have changed.” [laughs]

Micah: It also does show how much of a mama’s boy Draco is, not only because of that, because I think there’s actually a mention at the start of the chapter about how Draco got his normal either sweets or treats from home, and we know Lucius is not sitting at home baking with an apron on; that it’s probably Narcissa sending it.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: I was going to say it’s probably the house-elf, but Dobby is gone now.

Micah: Dobby is gone.

[Eric and Micah laugh]

Andrew: So Lucius took up cooking and baking.

Eric: Oh, man.

Micah: But you can see there is a close relationship between Narcissa and Draco, and to your point, Andrew, that’s the whole reason why at the end of the series she ultimately saves Harry. It’s because she knows that Draco is safe.

Eric: While an important relationship to keep track of, certainly, throughout the series, nothing excuses Draco’s behavior here. He insults Ron’s house. We’ve heard this all before. That’s the thing; we’ve just really heard it all before. Malfoy causes a scene again, and Harry didn’t go right to insulting Draco’s mother back. Harry is just trying to defend Ron. He’s trying to help Ron. He’s trying to make Ron feel better and show Ron that he’s protected.

Micah: And Draco was probably also lucky that Fred and George aren’t around at this moment either, because they probably would have been a lot more aggressive than Ron in this moment, even though Harry is holding Ron back.

Eric: And Hermione.

Micah: And Hermione, yeah.

Laura: Well, he’s being brave right now. He’s being bold because he thinks there’s no one around to serve him his just desserts, but boy is he wrong.

Micah: Yes, very wrong, because Draco tries to curse Harry with his back turned, and actually, it seems like he gets off a spell initially, right? Something goes past Harry’s ear. But then Mad-Eye Moody shows up and turns Draco into a ferret, which reading this back was probably one of the best adapted scenes from page to screen in this series. Brendan Gleeson does an amazing job as Mad-Eye in that moment. But yeah, Draco gets his comeuppance here a little bit.

Laura: He does. It’s so interesting to reread this and then compare it to the movie scene because I would argue the movie scene was very well adapted, but it was not nearly as violent as the scene in the book, where Moody is literally slamming ferret Draco into the ground repeatedly. In the movie, he just kind of bounces him around in the air.

Andrew: [laughs] Yeah. Which is funny in and of itself, because from what I remember, Mad-Eye seems to be enjoying himself.

Laura: Yeah. He’s like a conductor, just waving his wand around.

Andrew: Yes. Doing his best John Williams.

[Laura laughs]

Micah: So this is important, though, I think, because Draco also has a comment to Moody after he finally gets transformed back by McGonagall, who steps in, and he mutters something about letting his father know about this, and Moody responds by saying, “I know your father of old, boy.” And we haven’t seen too much of this to date, but we know from having read the series that Lucius is not looked favorably upon by his fellow Death Eaters, especially those that went to Azkaban. So it’s kind of cool to look at this through the lens of Mad-Eye Moody talking, but it’s also fun to look at it through the lens of Barty Crouch, Jr. talking, who’s the actual person who is speaking here. So clearly, Barty does not like Lucius very much.

Eric and Laura: Yeah.

Eric: We know that Barty went to Azkaban for being a Death Eater, and Lucius lied and said he was bewitched and didn’t, so I just love how many layers deep this animosity runs. And ultimately, I did look this up: Ferrets are related to weasels. They are weasels, basically. By transfiguring Draco, he calls him a weasel, essentially. He knows that this casting a spell while your opponent’s back is turned is without honor, and it’s so interesting to have Barty Crouch, Jr. be some kind of defender of honor here and the rightness of how magic should be done. It’s very interesting that he takes this moment and so aptly punishes Draco.

Laura: That is interesting. I feel like in a way he’s modeling himself after Voldemort, because Voldemort is horrible, but there are certain niceties that we’ve seen him exhibit.

Eric: Well, doesn’t he use that word? “The niceties must be observed,” and he forces Harry to bow?

Laura: Yes, 100%. Yeah, and even with Frank Bryce in the beginning of the book. I mean, it was cold and it was calculated and horrifying, but he didn’t go full Marvel supervillain in any of these scenes. He’s somebody who adheres to a certain social code of conduct to sort of, I think, smooth over interactions and allow him entry to a space, if that makes sense. And it feels like Barty is adopting that same approach here.

Micah: Yeah. And Eric, what you said about the ferret, too, made me think, was he also in a way making Draco a member of the Weasley family?

[Everyone laughs]

Micah: He’s like, “Okay, you’re…” Just hear me out. “You’re going to insult this family – talk about how poor they are, how they look, all these things – so I’m going to make you a member of the family by turning you into a ferret.”

Eric: It all happened so fast, it’s hard to really picture what was meant by this. But I mean, do we think that Draco deserved this? Because I can see where McGonagall is coming from.

Micah: Yeah, do we think it’s fair that Crouch did this in the first place?

Eric: Right.

Andrew: No. Well, I wanted to ask, does this raise any flags? McGonagall obviously reprimands Moody, but does it raise any other flags? Because I guess it would be out of the realm of possibility for them to imagine that Mad-Eye isn’t actually who they think he is, but I guess this also speaks to what they would expect of the real Mad-Eye, to have a moment of weakness.

Micah: Right, he’s a kook.

Andrew and Eric: Yeah.

Eric: Well, because crucially, you’re not supposed to use – McGonagall says this – transfiguration as a form of punishment. It is only used instructively to teach, and there could be negative repercussions for doing such a thing. Maybe when you’re an Auror hunting a Death Eater, you might use transfiguration to slow them in their tracks, but it’s never, ever, ever supposed to be used in the manner in which he’s seeing him use it.

Andrew: Do they get a rule book when they when they start at Hogwarts? How to teach here at Hogwarts? “Don’t transfigure students, please”? [laughs]

Eric: Well, I like the idea that Moody is just edgy enough where he might have done it, right? And so that’s why he’s ultimately able to fly under the radar.

Andrew: [laughs] What a great hire.

Laura: I mean, listen…

Eric: [laughs] Listen, Dumbledore is really scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Laura: And we have to remember, this is the ’90s, y’all. I’m not saying that it was the wild west or anything, but the degree to which there are, I think, dedicated trainings for people coming into jobs now just looks very different than it did at this time. And we’ve also heard from listeners in the UK that a lot of the same social services systems that here in America we would expect to catch this kind of issue didn’t really exist in the same way at this period in time. Not to say they didn’t have them at all, but it’s just, I think, a different cultural approach to how these jobs are regarded and the autonomy that people in certain jobs have to do whatever they want.

Micah: Yeah, well, let’s not forget, we spent the first half of this discussion talking about qualifications of three different professors.

Laura: Right.

Micah: This is the fourth that we’re talking about. Is he actually qualified to be doing this job at Hogwarts?

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: I think he’s extremely qualified.

Micah: The other thing I think that’s fun to keep in mind about Moody as we read through this book is we don’t know what House he belongs to. It’s never been defined.

Eric and Laura: Ohh.

Micah: So when he does this, yes, it’s Barty Crouch, Jr., but Moody, is it from a place of Gryffindor? Ravenclaw? Hufflepuff? We don’t know.

Laura: He’s a Hufflepuff.

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: I think Moody is a Hufflepuff.

Micah: I don’t think he was in Slytherin; I’m going to go out on a limb there.

Eric: No, Tonks is a Hufflepuff, and Moody is reluctant to train her, so they can’t be from the same House.

Micah: But Eric, I thought you had a really good point here about this action by Barty Crouch, Jr. and what it actually means for all those that are witnessing what’s going on.

Eric: It’s good for Draco that this happens. Somebody needed to show him… I mean, think about the level of confidence whereby Draco calls this out in the Great Hall, ultimately just openly bullies Ron incessantly, makes all of these inappropriate cracks and things. The idea that he was stopped in his tracks, especially from cursing Harry… we don’t know what that curse was. We know that Malfoy already has used curses he shouldn’t have access to in school settings. I’m thinking the Dueling Club; those curses were way above what was allowed. So yeah, ultimately Draco needs to be told or shown that somebody is watching, that somebody is going to be there who is looking out for his behavior, because it’s nothing short of the complete absence of that, for the first four years of Draco’s schooling, that have allowed him to become this big of a bully and allowed him to conduct himself in this manner. So you need, I think, not to be transfigured as punishment and have your ribcage continually smashed against the ground, [laughs] but you need to be shown that somebody is actually watching and somebody is going to hold you to that level of decorum that we all say is there. But until it’s proven to be there, you can walk right over it roughshod, and that’s exactly what Malfoy has been doing, and I think that’s what he stops doing at this moment.

Micah: Right. Well, the point I really also like that you had was that it really builds trust with Harry.

Eric: Yeah, that’s the other aspect.

Micah: And that’s the more important piece of it, I think, too, is that now there’s…

Eric: Sorry, sorry. I was really passionate about how much Malfoy needed it.

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: No, no, but now there’s a level of trust, presumably, between Barty Crouch, Jr. and Harry as a result of this.

Eric: Yep. Yeah, he won Harry over in three seconds flat. And I mean, there’s a lot to admire…

Micah: And other students probably too.

Eric: Yeah, there’s a lot to admire about it, his quickness, the way that he was… and I think the reason Draco’s spell missed Harry was because he literally was transformed as he was casting it, which, that shows the fastest reflex you could ever imagine, for coming across the Great Hall.

Micah: Yeah. Well, the chapter wraps up with Draco being taken to go see his Head of House, and he’s being taken there by Mad-Eye Moody, who refers to Snape as “Another old friend… I’ve been looking forward to a chat with old Snape.”

[Eric laughs]

Micah: So I’m curious, what do we imagine Barty wants to talk to Sev about? What do they want to catch up on?

Laura: Well, I mean, I think he knows that Voldemort met his downfall by pursuing information given to him by Snape, so I could see Barty wanting to use the perception or the figure of Moody, somebody who was hunting people like him down back when he was a Death Eater… I think he wants to use that as an intimidation factor to get back at Snape, to show him, “I’m watching you too. You don’t know who I am, you don’t know who I really am, but I’m somebody that you would already expect to be watching you, so it’s not suspect that I’m here.” He has the perfect cover in so many ways.

Eric: I still wouldn’t risk it, though. I feel like Snape is the one person you really can’t pull too much double agenting on, because Snape is acting as a double agent so often. And I feel like Moody, who’s secretly Barty Crouch, Jr. so he’s secretly a Death Eater that doesn’t like Snape, but he could be a Death Eater that likes Snape and wants more info about Voldemort, and then he could be Mad-Eye, who’s not inclined to like Snape for his Death Eater past… it’s just so many levels. Stay away. I don’t think Barty Crouch should say anything to Snape, because you risk blowing one or both of their cover. I feel like it’d be easier to hoodwink Dumbledore and pretend you’re his old friend Alastor Moody than it would be to fool Snape.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: I almost wouldn’t pull that thread at all. If he does, he’s got real kahunas.

Micah: Well, let’s not forget how good of a Legilimens Snape is as well, right?

Eric: Yeah. He would sense something is off.

Micah: I really liked that. I think that Snape should actually be very careful around somebody like Barty Crouch, Jr., and vice versa, for that matter. But yeah, the chapter wraps up, really, with Moody endearing himself to Harry on a number of levels, right? He insults Lucius, he turns Draco into a ferret, and as readers, we love the fact he’s about to go toe to toe with Snape. So like, who doesn’t love this guy?

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Micah: And he’s talked up, actually, a lot at the end of the chapter, right? We hear Fred and George talking about the lesson, like, “He’s the real deal,” basically. So I’m sure we’re going to have a lot of fun with his first class in the next chapter.

Eric: Yeah.


Odds & Ends


Micah: All right, so a few odds and ends here. Foreshadowing the future romantic relationship between Ron and Lavender Brown – this is in Divination – Ron asks, “Can I have a look at Uranus, too, Lavender?”

[Laura and Micah laugh]

Andrew: [sighs] Micah.

Eric: Foreshadow alert!

[Foreshadowing sound effect plays]

Micah: You know it wasn’t there by accident, right?

Andrew: I think Micah is cuckoo.

Micah: I think J.K. Rowling is cuckoo for putting that in there. We also get a couple mentions of Hermione sneaking off to the library, so what is she up to?

Andrew: Yeah. And jumping back to Ron and his humor for a moment, Ron is generally pretty funny, and one joy of rereading these books is being reminded of that, because they kind of wash that out in the movies. But I wanted to highlight some choice comments in this chapter just to celebrate how funny he is. First passage:

“‘You’re eating again, I notice,’ said Ron, watching Hermione adding liberal amounts of jam to her toast too.

‘I’ve decided there are better ways of making a stand about elf rights,’ said Hermione haughtily.

‘Yeah… and you were hungry,’ said Ron.”

Next line:

“They sat down at the Gryffindor table and helped themselves to lamb chops and potatoes. Hermione began to eat so fast that Harry and Ron stared at her.

‘Er – is this a new stand on elf rights?’ said Ron. ‘You’re going to make yourself puke instead?'”

[laughs] And then at the end of the chapter, this passage:

“‘Don’t talk to me,’ Ron said quietly to Harry and Hermione as they sat down at the Gryffindor table a few minutes later, surrounded by excited talk on all sides about what had just happened.’ [whispers] With Draco.

‘Why not?’ said Hermione in surprise.

‘Because I want to fix that in my memory forever,’ said Ron. ‘Draco Malfoy, the amazing bouncing ferret…'”

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: He was making me chuckle this chapter.

Laura: For sure.


MVP of the Week


Andrew: Time for MVP of the week.

[MVP of the Week music plays]

Andrew: I’m going to give it to Harry, for when Draco was making fun of Ron and Harry lobs the insult, “Get stuffed, Malfoy.”

Eric: [laughs] I’m giving my MVP of the week to Mad-Eye Fakey, because he’s so excellently in character.

Laura: Actually, to your point, Andrew, I’m giving mine to Ron. I feel like his humor gets overshadowed by the twins.

Andrew: Good point.

Laura: And because of the way that he’s written in the movies – and I love Rupert Grint; he’s a perfect Ron – but I think that we tend to forget that he’s a funny character.

Micah: And I’m going to give it to Professor Vector for giving no homework.

[Eric mocks a sigh of relief]

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: And this is especially important because it’s coming from Hermione, who is making fun of Harry and Ron for still being in Divination and having, I don’t know, some ridiculous amount of homework that Trelawney gave them.

Andrew: We love hearing from listeners after you listen to each episode, so if you have any feedback you’d like to share, you can contact us by emailing or sending a voice memo that’s recorded on your phone to MuggleCast@gmail.com, or you can use our phone number, which is 1-920-3-MUGGLE. That’s 1-920-368-4453. Next week on the show, we’ll discuss Chapter 14 of Goblet of Fire, “The Unforgivable Curses,” but that’s not all, because later this week, we’re going to have a new bonus MuggleCast out on Apple Podcasts through MuggleCast Gold, and through our Patreon. Micah, what will we be talking about in bonus MuggleCast this week?

Micah: We’ll be talking about the Harry Potter Studio Tour at Leavesden Studios just outside of London. I was there a couple of weeks ago and had a really great time, so I’m looking forward to all the questions that you guys put together.

Andrew: So thanks to everybody who supports us; we couldn’t do this without you. We really appreciate your financial support. We also appreciate when you share the show with a friend, rate and review us… any way you can help us thrive and grow is greatly appreciated. Now it’s time for Quizzitch.


Quizzitch


[Quizzitch music plays]

Eric: Last week’s question was: What is the trio’s first class of their fourth Hogwarts year? Well, despite being titled “Mad-Eye Moody,” this chapter does not have Defense Against the Dark Arts lesson in it. That’s the next one. I fooled about eight people with that little reference last week, so I’m pretty happy about it. The correct answer was Herbology, and correct answers were submitted by Ashley Rose Tobin-Hill, Brennan, Zach Brennan, CJ, Elizabeth K., Hannah H., Hugh J., Jason K. (a.k.a. Buff Daddy), Jenna, Josephine, JOSIE AUGUST PROTESTS FOR NICKNAMES, LC, Lucille Cartwright, Mae, Margaret Eleanor, Meaghan Clark, Molly, Neil Down, and Robbie. Ahh, wasn’t it so nice to hear everyone’s real government names, everybody?

[Micah laughs]

Andrew: It sure was.

Laura: Eh.

Eric: I feel like I got through 30 of them in just a short amount of time.

Micah: I don’t think Buff Daddy is a government name. I’d be very surprised if that were true.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: It was “a.k.a.” so they did put the username that way.

Micah: I don’t know.

Eric: And people are still trying to game the system, because certain names that seem like real names, if you really look at them, fall apart. Barry Obama. Hello. Do we think former President Barack Obama has submitted to Quizzitch?

Micah: I don’t know.

Andrew: He’s got kids; he probably read them Harry Potter. Maybe he’s a MuggleCast listener. He had a hard eight years; maybe he just wants to relax with some Harry Potter analysis.

Laura: And you never know. Barack Obama follows me on Twitter – or formerly known as Twitter, now known as X – so maybe.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Did you tweet last week about the Quizzitch question?

Laura: Not that I remember, but I’ll have to go check on that. [laughs]

Eric: All right. Well, we also got an answer from Taylor Alison Swift. I doubt it.

[Laura laughs]

Micah: You never know.

Eric: Thank you all for submitting your regular names for this month. I love that. Okay, here’s next week’s Quizzitch question: What is Lavender showing Parvati in DADA that gets her scolded by Mad-Eye? Is it Uranus? Submit your correct answer to us on the MuggleCast website, MuggleCast.com/Quizzitch, or click on “Quizzitch” from the main nav bar.

Andrew: You can also go to MuggleCast.com for transcripts, social media links, our full episode archive, our Wall of Fame, which features our favorite episodes, and of course, we’ve got a contact form there. Lots more, too, on MuggleCast.com, so be sure to check that all out. Also, just one more reminder: If you want to support us, but maybe not through Apple Podcasts or Patreon, you can visit our Etsy store where you can buy many cool MuggleCast items from Patreon years past, like the Cozy Comfy Combo Pack, which is the beanie and the socks at one reduced price. They’re really nice; don’t miss out. MuggleMillennial.etsy.com is where you can find that, or you can buy the beanie and the socks separately. We also have signed album art signed by all four of us, we also have T-shirts, and we also have a car, a MuggleCast Sweet 16 car inspired by the Ford Anglia that you can also purchase. We’ve all put them together. Micah is showing it off on camera now. MuggleMillennial.etsy.com. Patrons, by the way, right now have special access to a free shipping offer now through January 31. Thanks, everybody, for listening. I’m Andrew.

Eric: I’m Eric.

Micah: I’m Micah.

Laura: And I’m Laura.

Andrew: Bye, everybody.

Laura and Micah: Bye.

Transcript #642

 

MuggleCast 642 Transcript

 

Transcript for MuggleCast Episode #642, Mad-Eye Fakey (GOF Chapter 12, The Triwizard Tournament)


Show Intro


[Show music plays]

Andrew Sims: Welcome to MuggleCast, your weekly ride into the Wizarding World fandom. I’m Andrew.

Eric Scull: I’m Eric.

Micah Tannenbaum: I’m Micah.

Laura Tee: And I’m Laura.

Andrew: Grab your galoshes and some treacle tart…

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: … and treat yourself to the rainy Sorting ceremony of the 1994 school year at Hogwarts, because this week we’re discussing Chapter 12 of Goblet of Fire, “The Triwizard Tournament.” Will somebody sing the song today? This year’s Sorting Hat song? We’ll find out. Micah, I’m going to make you do it. Oh, look, Micah is back. Welcome back from Europe, Micah.

Micah: [laughs] Thank you, it’s great to be back. I thought Ning Xi did an amazing job; I listened to last week’s episode. She was fantastic, so I appreciate that you get quality guests to replace me while I’m not here.

Andrew: Micah privately messaged me earlier in the week and said, “The guest was great this week,” and I said, “Is this a joke about the sound effect that we played of you going ‘choo-choo’?”

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: Guest Micah?

Andrew: “Or did you really mean Ning Xi?” And he meant Ning Xi. But yeah, I never know with Micah; he’s a little trickster. So that was actually… your trip last week was your first time to England, which surprised me. And you got up to some Harry Potter stuff, right?

Micah: Yeah, I did. So I travelled over to Europe, initially for work, so I was in Paris. And then I took the train from Paris to London after that was all over with, and yeah, it was my first time there. And I will say, I did listen to MuggleCast, and I timed it pretty well . It ended the episode – so it wasn’t last week’s episode, but the episode before – as I was pulling into St. Pancras, which is the station that the Eurostar goes into, which is also right across the street from King’s Cross.

Laura: Ahh.

Andrew: That’s pretty cool.

Micah: So it was a nice little, yeah, bit of nostalgia there. And I was able to go over to the Harry Potter Studio Tour. First off, huge thanks to the folks over there because I tried to get tickets back in November for January and everything was sold out, and I reached out to them and they were nice enough to provide tickets to go to the Studio Tour.

Eric: That’s cool.

Andrew: Awesome.

Micah: And then MinaLima, I was able to stop by their little pop-up shop there. Very cool.

Eric: Okay, now I’m jealous.

Micah: May or may have not picked up a few things for you guys.

[Andrew gasps]

Eric and Laura: Aww.

Micah: May or may not. And then also did the official King’s Cross photoshoot. They do have one at the Studio Tour that you can do, but I figured I needed to actually go to Platform Nine and Three Quarters. So it was a great weekend in London. One of my good friends who used to work at the NBA, his wife got a job in London, so I stayed with them while I was there. Did a lot of traditional touristy things. A lot of pubs, a lot of beers, fish and chips…

[Eric laughs]

Micah: But the Studio Tour was amazing. I know, Eric, you and Andrew have been, right?

Andrew and Eric: Yes.

Andrew: It’s wonderful. It’s amazing. And I think you’re going to do a bonus MuggleCast on our Patreon and Apple Podcasts about the Studio Tour, right? And anything else you got up to?

Micah: Yeah, so any questions you have, fire away on that bonus MuggleCast.

Eric: There was one other location that you visited in the UK, which is forever tied with Harry Potter, though, and you sent us a picture of it. It was the Waterstones Piccadilly Circus.

Andrew and Laura: Oh.

Eric: So now all four of us have been to that bookstore in London.

Andrew: I thought the picture you were referring to was the one of the guy in the bar, who Micah texted us and was like, “This guy looks like Dumbledore.”

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: And we were like, “Micah, you’re taking a picture of a stranger in a public place? That’s a little strange.” [laughs]

Micah: He was fine with it. I gave him a couple pounds and he went on his way.

Andrew: Oh, okay.

[Laura laughs]

Micah: I bought him a beer.

Laura: There you go. Same thing.

Andrew: I do have one other question for you for now, though. You went to the real King’s Cross; you did the official Platform Nine and Three Quarters thing. Did you throw yourself at the wall?

[Laura and Micah laugh]

Micah: So it’s very interesting, the way that they have it set up there, in that it’s a full production. They have people who are there who take you through the different poses that you should do, and they have somebody putting the scarf around you, flipping the scarf so that they get it at just the right moment.

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: They tell you how to stand if you’re with somebody, that you can pick a couple different poses to do, so I mean, I’m assuming maybe I could have done that. But they definitely have it down to a science.

Eric: I can’t believe the production of this now, because for many years, it was not even roped off. It was in a public train station, and I guess as influence grow, as the popularity of the books grow, to find out they now employ people to toss your scarf for a photo is just completely…

Andrew: [laughs] What a job.

Eric: I mean, yeah, scarf tosser at the official… I know there’s an official store in the building now. There for many years was not.

Micah: That was temporarily closed. The store was closed.

Eric: Ooh.

Micah: There must be renovations going on. But the actual photo area, it’s a whole production; I literally probably waited in line for an hour.

Andrew: What?!

Micah: And I said to my friend, I’m like, “Are you sure you want to wait in this?”

Andrew: [laughs] I would have said no.

Micah: Yeah, I was almost… I’m like, “I’m ready to go.” They’re like, “No, no, no, you came all this way. You need to do this.”

Andrew: Oh, that’s nice of him.

Laura: That’s true, halfway around the world. I’m going to echo Eric here because Eric and I actually went to Platform Nine and Three Quarters in 2007 and took some pics, and I’m listening, Micah, to you describing this wonderful experience and thinking, “Was that like, a random Thursday? And these people were just off, I guess?” They weren’t doing the whole production. [laughs]

Eric: Yeah, when Laura and I went in 2007, there was just a sign saying “Platform Nine and Three Quarters,” from what I remember.

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: Well, in the commercial age of 2024, I think Warner Bros. figured out that, “Hey, we can make some money off of this if we station a few people here.” And then you can take your own photos, certainly, if you want to, but they do professional photos there and I got a couple of those. And four photos for £20, not a bad deal.

Eric: Wow.

Andrew: I guess not.

Laura: Well, this also means that all four of us have pictures of ourselves at Platform Nine and Three Quarters at this point, so I’m wondering if we should dig those up for a social moment.

Andrew: I don’t know if I’ve been to the real one, actually. I went to the one at the Studio Tour.

Laura: Really?

Andrew: Yeah, really.

Laura: No way.

Andrew: Way.

Laura: Oh my gosh. You’re not a real fan!

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: I’m going to call up Micah’s friend and see if he wants to wait in line for an hour with me to take this photo. [laughs]

Micah: Well, no, what he’ll do is… you just call him when you’re 15 minutes out from actually getting up to the front, and then I’m sure he’ll come take the photo for you.

Andrew: Good call. So really quick question and then we can move on: your whole photo experience, once you got through the hour wait, how long were they taking pictures of you?

Micah: A couple minutes, maybe?

Andrew: Okay. Wow, that’s a pop-click.

Micah: Yeah, it’s very quick. I mean, it has to be, because there’s so many people there, and I don’t even know how late they stay open, to be honest with you. Because I was wondering… this was on a Sunday; it was probably around six o’clock in the evening at this time.

Andrew: Wow. Oh my gosh.

Micah: But it’s got to be a pretty decent moneymaker for them.

Andrew: Yeah, sounds like it. Geez. All right, so Micah will discuss that more in bonus MuggleCast in the next couple of weeks. Bonus MuggleCast is part of MuggleCast Gold on Apple Podcasts, and it’s also available through Patreon.com/MuggleCast. You get two bonus MuggleCast installments every month, and in our latest bonus episode, we discussed new Harry Potter video games that could be in the pipeline and our wishes for Hogwarts Legacy. Speaking of ways to support us, you can also visit our Etsy store where you can buy many cool MuggleCast items, like the Comfy Cozy Combo Pack, which are our beanie and socks at one reduced price. We also have the wooden cars you can build, we have T-shirts, and more. MuggleMillennial.etsy.com is where you can find those. Tuition at Hogwarts might be free, but running this show is not, so we appreciate your support very much. Thank you in advance, no matter how you support us.


Chapter by Chapter: Seven-Word Summary


Andrew: And without further ado, let’s get into Chapter by Chapter, and we’re discussing Goblet of Fire Chapter 12, “The Triwizard Tournament.” And we’ll start as always with our Seven-Word Summary. Micah is fresh off his break, so he gets to go first.

[Seven-Word Summary music plays]

Micah: Thunderstorms…

Laura: … announce…

Andrew: … the…

Eric: … arrival…

Andrew: … of…

Laura: … Mad-Eye… does that count as a word? I think in American English, it does.

Andrew: Yeah, there’s a hyphen.

Laura: Yep. [laughs]

Micah: … Fakey.

[Everyone laughs]

Laura: Oh, I love that. I love it.

Eric: Well, that’s wonderful. “Mad-Eye Fakey” is what we now have to call him.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: “Fake Moody” is the more popular term, but “Mad-Eye Fakey” now is definitely going to grow on me.


Chapter by Chapter: Main Discussion


Eric: So it is the beginning of the 1994 school year, Harry’s fourth year at Hogwarts. And going back to this book, now that we are all adults, I’m sure that this chapter stands out among many as being just one large security nightmare, and in this case, not just school security; we’re talking about people’s personal security, personal safety. And this whole chapter – we’ve mentioned the rain – but it’s one big hazard, and there was no way we were going to get through this chapter in this day and age and not talk about all the crazy security concerns just right out the gate. First of all, Harry boarded the carriages at the end of the last chapter with the trio, and all the students of years two through seven are on a nice covered carriage ride into the school. However, as we know, first-year students take a slightly different approach to the castle, and they go by boat. Why were the boat rides to the castle not canceled this year? The weather is so bad, it’s compared to a gale, and everyone is soaked, everyone is wet, everyone is miserable. I think it might be… I mean, Ron says the lake might overflow.

Andrew: Welcome to Hogwarts. It’s time to grow a tough skin.

[Laura and Micah laugh]

Andrew: They’re trying to toughen these kids up right out of the gate.

Eric: Oh my – can they swim?

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: I agree, Andrew. Suck it up, buttercup.

Eric: Harry’s first welcome letter didn’t say “All first-year students must know how to swim.”

Micah: That’s rite of passage. That’s what it comes down to, is this is how first years arrive to Hogwarts every year. Weather does not matter. This is part of the pomp and circumstance, the arrival of the students to Hogwarts. If it’s raining, too bad.

Andrew: And then you look back several years later, maybe when you’re leaving Hogwarts, “Oh, remember that time, Micah, our first year on the boats and it was raining so hard? Ahaha, good times. That was a core memory for us at Hogwarts, that and Voldemort’s return and all kinds of things. So many core memories.”

Eric: I feel like it’s one thing to say yes, it’s obviously something they’re going to make a new memory that the students will remember, be memorable forever, and then there’s the… can’t they just come back the next day and do that? Because I’m pretty sure…

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Honestly, you know who’s watching them and safely ferry them across the lake? Hagrid. Hagrid is not only not a proper wizard, but I don’t know…

Laura: Ooh.

Eric: No, he can’t do magic to save them if something were to go wrong. And I don’t even know if he’s trained in CPR. When does that come up in the books?

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: I don’t even know if he knows how to swim. That’s probably the bigger issue.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: I wouldn’t want him giving CPR to me. He’s a half-giant, I’m a measly weak human, he’ll break me in half if he tries to push on my chest.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: Yeah, we all love the boat ride to Hogwarts on a clear night. I feel like they just, this time, should have either given more carriages to the students, or at least had some kind of drying charm put on them in the Entrance Hall. We’ll get to Peeves in a minute. But McGonagall is always responsible for ferrying the kids, or shepherding the kids into the school, into the Sorting ceremony. All of these kids come into the Great Hall soaked. Why wasn’t there something set up whereby there would be a drying charm applied to everybody? These kids are already scared; now they’re going to be…

Micah: Eric, this is preparation for life, okay?

Eric: For life.

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: Life isn’t all rainbows and sunshine.

Eric: It’s hazing! It’s Hogwarts’s hazing ritual.

Laura: Listen…

Andrew: It’s also baby Voldemorts and Horcruxes and dead kids and Triwizard Tournaments.

Laura: I was going to say, this just seems like great preparation for what’s going to come this year and also great preparation for what’s going to come in three years’ time.

Eric: I mean, a small consolation, I guess? It’s just, if the students’ comfort and safety was anyone’s concern, McGonagall or Flitwick would be there with Pepperup Potion, a warm coat, or something dry, or would be able to dry them…

Laura: And to your point, Eric, this is a question I had, exactly what you brought up. Why wasn’t a drying charm used here? Because these kids are shivering in the Great Hall, Dennis Creevey is having to wear Hagrid’s giant moleskin overcoat, Harry literally pours water out of his shoe when he sits down… it’s a little bit ridiculous. Like, okay, I get it; y’all are trying to make an impression on these first years, but come on.

Andrew: Justin, who’s listening live on our Patreon right now, does bring up the astute point that they have a lot of fireplaces at Hogwarts. So you cozy up to a fireplace and you dry off that way; that’s a nice dry heat for you to dry off real quick. But there is one hero in all of this.

Eric: Okay.

Andrew: Well, the giant squid.

Eric: Yeah! Well, and it’s a good thing, too, because if the kids can’t swim, and if Hagrid can’t swim, your only protection is this mythical cryptid creature that once a year rears its head above and makes an appearance in the book; apparently knows the situation. The giant squid has a read on how dangerous this all is, and probably makes himself available every September the first to give a gentle nudge to any kid who falls in.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: I mean, that’s why the squid is there; Dumbledore employs him as a last ditch effort so the kids don’t drown.

Laura: Where was the squid during the Battle of Hogwarts in Book 7? That’s what I want to know now. He comes in so handy here. Comes in clutch, like, one time.

Eric: Maybe he was hibernating, or he was saving somebody else in a different hemisphere.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: It does make you wonder, though, does the squid serve any other purpose? Or does Dumbledore like having the squid there solely for the purpose of potentially kicking a kid out of the water when they accidentally fall in? Because I never really thought of why the squid is there to begin with, ever, but this sort of answers that question.

Laura: I mean, maybe it was there first.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: And the squid was like, “Look, I don’t like you’re building a castle here, but I will act as lifeguard should any of these kids fall in.”

[Laura laughs]

Eric: Well, it’s funny because last week, we were talking about Amos Diggory getting some toast, and I think Fred and George feed the squid some toast, which is why…

Laura: That’s true.

Eric: Or it might be Lee Jordan. But at some point, feeding the squid toast is something in Hogwarts Legacy that you do if you’re… is it in Ravenclaw?

Micah: Slytherin.

Eric: Slytherin challenge, okay. Anyway, that’s all very funny. Honestly, the presence of the giant squid, I always thought, was just a joke to the wizarding world, the fact that until 2004 or 2006 the squid was legitimately not proven to exist, the giant squid. They eventually did find… I think one washed up on the shore. But it was a rumored mythical beast, and so like every other rumored mythical beast, J.K. Rowling is writing the book series and she’s like, “I’m going to put that at Hogwarts.” It’s a very fun joke.

Micah: I like it. I mean, we’re going to also talk about someone, something, that comes with the castle, right, in Peeves. Why not…? As Laura said, the giant squid also comes with the territory.

Eric: I’m glad you mentioned that, Micah; it’s a perfect transition into adding insult to injury, which seems to be Peeves’s whole role. [laughs] Harry, Ron, and Hermione, who took the dry way… they took the dry route in…

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: … still nevertheless wind up rained on. And they come in, and just as Ron is enjoying looking up and all of that, who should throw a water balloon at them but Peeves the poltergeist, who is as unfunny as ever, and yeah, just throwing water bombs. And when confronted by McGonagall, he says, “Not doing nothing; they’re already wet, aren’t they?” And I’m like, “Come on, man.” This is utterly crazy.

Andrew: What’s so interesting, though, is that apparently, they have really little control over him at Hogwarts.

Eric: What surprises me – and something that I forgot about reading this chapter the first time – is that his motives are actually completely explained in this chapter. Little later on when they’re at the feast, Nearly Headless Nick actually offers some keen insight into why Peeves is acting out, and it’s actually because he had wanted to attend the feast, and we’ll get into that a little bit more later. But even given that bit of information, can we still forgive Peeves? And at this point, I mean, everyone’s recourse is always “I’ll tell Dumbledore, I’ll tell the Bloody Baron,” who both keep him in check, but is that really enough? At this point, shouldn’t we be taking a harder line with Peeves?

Laura: Yeah, as in not letting him remain in the castle?

Eric: Pretty much.

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: Yeah, for sure.

Eric: Let him be somebody else’s problem.

Andrew: But can they get rid of them? They can’t.

Laura: Yeah, I don’t think they can. And I was doing some thinking about this, and I think Micah actually has a canon-based answer to this, so I’ll throw it to him in a moment. But I think part of the reason – this is my headcanon – part of the reason they can’t get rid of him is poltergeists are long thought to be entities that feed off of emotional or stressful energy. And there actually have been psychological studies done into the phenomena of poltergeists, and there is a correlation – in some cases I think it’s maybe somewhat flimsy; I guess it depends on if you believe in poltergeists as a phenomenon – but a correlation is drawn between these assumed poltergeist disturbances and the presence of pubescent children. The thought is that teenagers and preteens are going through so much mental, social, physiological change in such a short period of time, that they manifest a particular type of almost chaotic energy that draws a poltergeist to them. So if we go along this line of thinking, Hogwarts being full of a bunch of teenagers is like a feeding ground for something like Peeves.

Andrew: He’s living.

Laura: Yeah!

Eric: So what does he have to be sad about?

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Micah: I don’t think he is sad. He’s living his best life.

Laura: No, I don’t think he’s sad.

Eric: I think he is sad, though, because he wanted to be part of the feast, and they just flat out didn’t even give him a chance.

Micah: Well, that also just begs the question for me, how are they able to keep him out?

Andrew: Right.

Micah: So you have this council, but presumably… we know from J.K. Rowling that Peeves is this indestructible spirit of chaos, going off of what Laura just described, and she said that he came with the building, so he was part of the deal when the founders or whomever decided to build Hogwarts. And over the years, there were many attempts to remove him, but nothing ever worked, and she even went on to say that Dumbledore himself could not remove Peeves if he wanted to. So if you’re Peeves… I know he’s intimidated by the Bloody Baron; that’s mentioned a couple of times in the series. But if he did want to go into the Great Hall, what’s stopping him? Because it’s not like there’s any retribution that he’s going to suffer as a result of doing that. And I would even argue that he might be on better behavior in the Great Hall, because he seems to have a little bit of respect for Dumbledore and maybe some for McGonagall; we see a little bit of that in this chapter. So I think the wrong decision was made. Peeves should have been allowed to be in the Great Hall.

Eric: It’s so interesting, too, because I’m pretty sure this is the only mention of the Ghosts Council. But the idea that they knew this was coming and met, and there was basically a character trial held on behalf of Peeves, who wanted to attend this feast… I’m kind of sad for Peeves, but that doesn’t excuse what he’s doing to these kids. If pneumonia were a thing in the wizarding world, they would absolutely all catch it.

[Micah laughs]

Eric: Every single one of these students, drenched, and not dried off by any one of the qualified wizards that are in this building.

Micah: So are we to assume it was a three-to-one vote? Because we’re told that the Fat Friar was okay with it. So the other three voted against, presumably?

Eric: Yeah, the Fat Friar, it is said, decided that he deserved a chance, which is a very Hufflepuff thing to do.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Because he has to prove that he can behave. And Helena Ravenclaw was probably just going off of past offenses, because Peeves has never proved himself to be well behaved at anything, so she’s taking the logic approach. And the Bloody Baron was like, “No, we’re not going to give it a chance at all.” So I don’t know. If I were Peeves, I’d feel really dejected. Almost prejudged.

Andrew: Might you feel peeved about it?

Eric: I would feel a little peeved, yeah. How about you guys?

Andrew: Hmm. Yeah, I’d feel peeved too.

Laura: I just don’t know how any of it’s enforceable. I just don’t think it is. And I think probably Helena Ravenclaw, who has been there the longest of most of the ghosts… she’s been there basically since Hogwarts was founded, so if anyone has any perspective on Peeves, it’s her and the Bloody Baron because they were both there.

Eric: That’s such a good point.

Laura: So I could see them being like, “This is a waste of time to even debate this. There’s nothing to be done about it.”

Eric: Yeah. Well, it still just boggles the mind that they are allowing all of these students to remain wet.

Laura: Agreed.

Andrew: [laughs] That’s Eric’s main frustration in this chapter.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: You ever step in a puddle, Andrew? You’re already getting rained on…

Andrew: Yeah. Right.

Eric: … and you’re stepping off a curb and all of a sudden your foot sinks all the way in and you’re like, “Great, I didn’t pack an extra pair of socks today”? It’s that. Peeves is that. And coupled with all the other security overlooks, oversights, that have happened so far in this book from all of the adults in the wizarding world, I certainly have zero confidence – of course, knowing what happens – but zero confidence this year that there’s going to be any safety for anyone. Nobody is safe.

Andrew: I’m also wondering what else this Hogwarts Ghost Council decides? Because I would like to hear more from them. Like, what ghost puns to make around the kids each year?

Eric: Ohh.

Andrew: Do they just make plans for each other’s deathday parties? What exactly is going on with this Ghost Council? It’s a pretty cool organization. The Hogwarts Ghost Council; that on its face sounds pretty badass.

Micah: Oh, you need a T-shirt, Andrew.

Andrew: [laughs] Hogwarts Ghosts Council. And people are like, “I don’t get it. What is that?” “Oh, remember in Goblet of Fire Chapter 12 when it came up that one time? Yeah, that’s what this is a reference to.”

[Micah laughs]

Eric: Yeah. I mean, presumably they manage ghosts affairs at Hogwarts. I always thought there were more ghosts at Hogwarts than just the House heads. Definitely in the movies, there are unnamed ghosts.

Andrew: Yeah. I can see that being canon in the books too. With how big the school is, with how old the school is.

Eric and Laura: Yeah.

Eric: And Moaning Myrtle is there too. So presumably, they rule…

Micah: Oh, did she vote?

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Did she vote? Yeah, for or against Peeves?

Andrew: I’m going to guess against.

Laura: I mean, I doubt they invited her, to be honest.

[Eric and Micah laugh]

Eric: That’s sad.

Laura: Maybe I’m being too negative this episode, but I cannot see anyone in any position of power at Hogwarts taking the Ghost Council seriously.

Andrew: Aww.

Laura: It honestly feels like something that Nearly Headless Nick came up with to kind of give himself the feeling of importance, because he already feels so disregarded in so many other ways that we’ve already talked about. I just think there’s a reason that we only hear about it once, and it’s because they don’t exactly move the needle.

Eric: This is profoundly sad.

Laura: I’m sorry.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Eric: They don’t move the needle. Is that because they could try and move the needle, but their hand would pass through it?

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: Aww.

Andrew: I guess when they’re that old, that’s irrelevant. They just need something to do. It’s kind of like activities at an old person’s home, like a nursing home. They have cute bingo activities and stuff just to keep them busy.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: The Ghost Council is just to keep them a little busy, keep their brains working; that’s healthy for them.

Eric: This has gone far enough.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Eric: I’m going to go ahead and say I think that Dumbledore empowered the ghosts to have this Ghost Council, because we know that it’s wrong for humans to manage the affairs with any authority or presumed authority of nonhumans, right? So the house-elves should rule their own, right? And the ghosts should be able to rule their own, and the goblins should be able to manage their own, and I think that that’s in line with the expectation here. So Dumbledore could probably trap Peeves magically in some kind of something; he’s that strong a wizard. And it’s been done before; Remus Lupin cast a spell on Peeves that hit him and annoyed him a little bit and got him to go away. But ultimately, they’re going to leave it up to the Ghost Council because that’s what’s right.

Micah: But doesn’t Peeves add a certain level of character to Hogwarts?

Andrew: And that’s why Dumbledore likes him there.

Laura: Exactly.

Micah: I think Dumbledore does like Peeves. I wouldn’t be surprised if they hang out from time to time in Dumbledore’s office and just…

Andrew: [laughs] Play catch?

Micah: No, just catch up. Make fun of people. Because you know Dumbledore loves the drama; we say this all the time.

Eric: Yeah. No, I agree. I just think on this particular rainy, soggy September the first, it goes too far. And definitely once…

Micah: But that’s the whole point, though. It’s the opening ceremony. Why not show all of what Hogwarts has to offer to these first-year students inside of the Great Hall?

[Eric laughs]

Micah: Let Peeves make an appearance.

Andrew: This is what you got into, y’all. Take it or leave it. You can leave right away if you want, but now you know this is what to expect daily at Hogwarts.

Eric: All right, so I believe that should cover the whole safety and health aspect of this chapter at least, but there’s plenty more to come. And it is noted that this is actually the first Sorting ceremony that Harry is able to attend since his own, which is very exciting. And in the book it says a series of unfortunate circumstances led to that being the case. We know in their second year, there was the flying car incident; they arrived late. And in the third year, Harry passes out from the Dementor and has to go straight to the hospital wing and misses the Sorting. So anyway, we get a full view of the Sorting from Harry’s perspective. He’s, of course, already Sorted, so he’s seated at the Gryffindor table. And one thing that I really liked is that Harry seems to really take a vested interest in the students being Sorted, and this, to me, speaks to Harry’s character in a really special way. He seems to care about these kids, not just because they’re shaking and trembling and remind him of himself and might catch frostbite or pneumonia at any moment, but because he cares about Hogwarts. It’s school pride to see other students join your House.

Andrew: Yeah, I think that’s exactly right. And I got the same impression as you, Eric; it was really sweet to see Harry have this type of reaction because he clearly loves Hogwarts, and I think it’s very exciting to enjoy a new live performance from the Sorting Hat. I guess the impression we can take away from the entire series is that the Sorting Hat really does come up with a new song every year, and with how old Hogwarts and the Sorting Hat is, that’s really impressive.

Eric: Wow.

Andrew: So to get a one and done performance from the Sorting Hat, that’s really special. I would love to be there just for that alone.

Eric: Andrew, you’ve convinced me that there’s now a monetary value to those Sorting songs. This is a one and done performance; you’ve got to attend.

Andrew: Yeah. But no tickets are sold, evidently. They should. Hogwarts should sell tickets every year. A limited batch, like, 40. You get to sit along the fireplaces drying off.

Eric: I like that. I like it a lot.

[Laura laughs]

Micah: Do you think someone somewhere is transcribing what the Sorting Hat says each year and there’s a book?

Andrew: Yeah, a writer for the Harry Potter Wiki probably does that.

Eric: Well, that would be an idea there, because we know that the Sorting Hat has some pretty important politics. The later songs, especially next year’s, really start talking about cooperation and inclusion. I’m actually surprised that that was devoid of the whole thing this year, that there weren’t really many anything about inclusion, given the international nature of this year’s festivities.

Andrew: Ohh.

Eric: But one thing I asked was, okay, Harry is excited, but would you guys be as excited for this to happen? And Micah seems to have indicated… Micah, would you get bored by this point in the series?

Micah: Well, if I went to Hogwarts, I don’t think I would get bored hearing the Sorting Hat every year, especially if he has a new song to sing. But as readers, I think if we had to go through the Sorting every single year, that would get a little bit boring.

Andrew: The Sorting part or the song part? I don’t think we should mix the two, because I think the song is exciting.

Micah: The Sorting part.

Andrew: Yeah, the Sorting part is a bore. [laughs]

Micah: Nobody cares where Bob Smith is going this year.

Andrew: Right. Sorry, Bob Smith. I hope there’s a listener out there named Bob Smith. [laughs] Write in if you’re out there.

Micah: Nobody cares where Justin Sharkey is getting Sorted this year.

Eric: Wow.

Andrew and Laura: Ouch.

[Micah laughs]

Andrew: One of our longtime listeners. Mean.

Eric: Justin, don’t send us your hate on the Discord. We’re sorry.

Micah: Just send it to me. He was just the first name that I saw.

Laura: [laughs] It’s okay. I’m sure he loved it. Anyway, I do wonder if with the show coming up on Max eventually, if we’ll actually see the Sorting Hat sing…

Andrew: Ooh.

Laura: … because I feel like every interpretation of the Sorting Hat doing its song that we’ve ever seen, it’s more like spoken word. It doesn’t sing. [laughs]

Andrew: That would be awesome if they had the song performed every season, or at least a couple of times, and you see Dumbledore in the background grooving along to it. Should it be acapella or should there be some actual instruments involved?

Eric: Definitely the school band should be there.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: That’d be fun.

Laura: Who’s going to voice the Sorting Hat when it’s singing? Taylor Swift? Fresh off the Eras Tour?

Eric: I gotta tell you, not Jim Dale, unfortunately, because I just listened to the audiobook, and it’s a little grating to hear the Sorting Hat.

Andrew: Aww.

Eric: Yeah, he captures perfectly the zest and wistfulness that the Sorting Hat must feel in delivering the song, but there’s… I think it must be difficult to do right.

Andrew: Well, yeah. And you can take it as… how is it being performed? Is it as a rap? Is it a pop song? It kind of comes off as a rap. [raps] “A thousand years or more ago when I was newly sewn, there lived four wizards of renown, whose names are still well known.” Uh!

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Okay?

Micah: That was good.

Laura: Oh, man. They’re going to get Lin-Manuel Miranda in there to do one of his Disneyfied child-appropriate raps.

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: Oh, that would be cool.

Andrew: [raps] “Bold Gryffindor from wild moor, fair Ravenclaw from glen.” We need to get a AI Lin-Manuel Miranda performing these Hogwarts school songs. I think that would work really well.

Laura: Honestly, do you think we could reach out to him and ask? Maybe that sounds crazy.

Andrew: Is he on Cameo? [laughs]

Laura: I don’t think he is, but he does fun stuff like this all the time. I think we should start a campaign.

Andrew: [laughs] Sure.

Laura: We really should. I’m not kidding. [laughs]

Andrew: He gets lots of requests, and he’s going to listen to ours for some reason. [laughs]

Laura: Hey, you never know. I think he has young kids. He’s probably into Harry Potter.

Andrew: I think he is. I think he’s been an outspoken Harry Potter fan from time to time.

Eric: So as we mentioned, Harry is surprised to learn that there’s a new Sorting song, and Ron, presumably not due to his own experience but maybe from his brothers, says, “Oh, actually, there’s a new one every year.” And then Ron posits that it must be pretty boring being the hat, because you’re obviously only needed to do the Sorting and do the song, so Ron speculates that he probably – he being the hat in this case – spends the whole year coming up with what the next year’s song is going to be, and I think that makes sense. But because this is what we do on MuggleCast, I also have to ask, what else could the Sorting Hat get up to throughout the school year when he’s not doing this appearance?

Andrew: Well, the hat does have that side hustle at Forbidden Journey in the Wizarding World parks, where it gives you a pre-ride warning and stuff like that. “Make sure you’re buckled, yada, yada.” But I think it’s a fun question because the hat can’t just be writing the song; it has to be doing other things as well.

Eric: I mean, Harry is able to go up to the hat in Dumbledore’s office just on a random day and have a conversation with him, so I wonder if he talks with Dumbledore from time… or it talks to Dumbledore throughout the year, maybe.

Andrew: I could see the hat being a therapist.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: Got started talking to Dumbledore and was like, “Oh, you know what, I’m actually kind of good at this,” and then plays therapist or counselor at Hogwarts as well.

Eric: Yeah, the hat would be the worst therapist because it tells you when you’re deflecting, and it can see, so it’s like, “You don’t want to face this truth, but I can see it in your head.”

Andrew: Oh, man. Oh, yeah. In therapy sessions, you just wear the hat on your head. That’d be weird.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: Yeah, hard truths. Because Harry doesn’t get comfort from him; he’s like, “Oh, I stand by what I said; you’d have done well in Slytherin,” and Harry is like, “Thanks.”

Andrew: The hat makes you look into the Mirror of Erised every session to check in on your deepest desires. [laughs]

Eric: Oh my God. There is actually a fun thing to be had in all the elements and tchotchkes around Hogwarts grouping together. So you have the Mirror of Erised, the Sorting Hat, in the Chamber of Secrets… and all sorts of other stuff. But maybe the hat participates in karaoke parties. We know he can sing; we know he likes, presumably, song. So what if Dumbledore had monthly staff parties in his office and every once in a while they let the hat do a number?

Micah: I like it.

Andrew: I love that idea. I think we should Max that.

[“Max that” sound effect plays]

Andrew: Because I think about Disney+ spinoff series where… they have a Toy Story spinoff called “Forky Asks a Question” or something like that, and they’re little five-minute shorts. We could have five-minute shorts in which the Sorting Hat is just performing songs.

Eric: I love it.

Micah: We could call it “Patchy’s Side Hustles.”

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Andrew: “Patchy’s Side Hustles.” Forky, Patchy.

Eric: “Mad-Eye Fakey,” “Patchy…” Micah, you’re on a naming kick.

Micah: Yeah. And I like your idea of parties. But I was thinking more so he could make appearances at wizarding world birthday parties, particularly for kids, maybe before they go off to Hogwarts. It’d be cool to have the Sorting Hat there.

Eric and Laura: Aww.

Eric: Love that idea.

Laura: That’s cool.

Micah: He needs money.

Eric: [laughs] Why does a hat need money?

Micah: Although, I guess, does he really need money?

Eric: No. He doesn’t.

Micah: No, he doesn’t.

Andrew: He doesn’t pay rent. He’s living in Dumbledore’s office playing therapist.

Eric: And Laura, you’ve taken all our ideas to the next level, though. I’m very excited about your suggestion.

Laura: Yeah, I think that during his downtime nine months out of the year, he just chronically auditions for talent shows like The X Factor.

[Eric laughs]

Laura: Did X Factor exist canonically when this was written? No, but don’t let details get in the way of a good story, I always say.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Eric: Moving on, once the song is finished, no one is happier than Ron, who’s very hungry, and they get their feast, they get their food, which unfortunately comes to a halt for one of the trio when it is said by Nearly Headless Nick that the feast almost didn’t happen because Peeves was running amok in the kitchens and he disturbed the house-elves and prevented them from being able to cook. And you hear a clatter of a spoon and fork, and Hermione is like, “Wait, what?”

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: And Nearly Headless Nick is like, “Oh yes, Miss Granger, Hogwarts is possibly the biggest dwelling of the most amount of house-elves in the world!” or I think he says Britain. And she is shook, because Hermione lately has been really interested in the rights and freedoms of the house-elf, and to learn that they are employed – or not, literally, not is the issue – at Hogwarts. She asks, “Do they get sick leave? Pensions?” and Nick laughs at her and says, “No, of course not. They don’t want that stuff.” Hermione immediately sets down her spoon and fork – well, she dropped it anyway. She doesn’t pick it up, and she refuses to eat another bite.

Micah: Well, the part that wasn’t in the chapter but actually happened was Nearly Headless Nick reached over to Hermione and took her sunglasses off, so she could actually see what was going on around her.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: Wow.

Andrew: I agree with your point.

Eric: The shade, Micah! The shade!

Micah: It’s like, who did you think was making your food for the last three years?

Laura: Right.

Eric: Especially… yeah.

Andrew: And how…? It even feels unlikely to me that you wouldn’t see a house-elf at some point, and I think it is sad that maybe they stay out of the way. But the person who just a couple chapters ago was saying she had read Hogwarts: A History didn’t know this? She knows everything.

Micah: That’s a really good point.

Andrew: And there’s a lot of house-elves here. And like you said, Micah, she never thought about who makes the food? Where it comes from? You know how food comes into existence in the magical world; you must.

Eric: Well, Hermione knows it can’t be just gotten out of thin air. Hermione of anybody would know that rule of Gamp’s Law, so she must therefore assume that somebody is cooking it. But you’re right, Andrew, that points out that probably house-elves are not mentioned in Hogwarts: A History. Like, it’s not that she overlooked that chapter.

Andrew: And why is that? Maybe that’s more insulting to the house-elves; they’re not even credited for being involved with the goings-on at the school.

Eric: Well, of course it is. Yeah, that’s literally why they say history is written by the victors, right? And if you have an oppressed people, the way to get away with that oppression is to not talk about them, not acknowledge them, not let others know what’s really going on at Hogwarts School.

Andrew: Dang, that’s deep.

Eric: I will say… yeah, well, up to this point, the wizarding world at large has gotten away with largely concealing from even an avid reader the presence of the Hogwarts house-elves to the wider world. I wonder how many people go through all seven years of school and never know who cleaned their clothes for them?

Laura: Yeah. And it’s probably one of these things that because it’s out of sight and out of mind… they don’t see the food being prepared; it just comes to them ready to go. They don’t see who does their linens and their laundry; they just know that it’s always there. And I think particularly for a Muggle-born student, it’s not too unreasonable for them to think, “Oh, it must just be magic.” I wish Hermione were a little more curious before her fourth year at Hogwarts about this. But I actually don’t think it’s unreasonable for someone who didn’t have this context about the way manual labor is done in the wizarding world, I don’t think it’s unreasonable for that person not to know that there’s a living being filling that gap.

Eric: This is where the concept of emotional labor comes from, too, right? You can be totally unaware that it’s going on. But yeah, I just love that… because house-elves are so prominent in this book, I love that they were introduced two books ago. We got that whole book of Dobby, and now we’re being introduced to this new concept that was simultaneously the oldest concept – they’ve been here possibly since the beginning of the school in some capacity – and now it’s becoming an issue. So I will say, Hermione seems to get a really big reality check, though, because even Sir Nicholas Mimsy-Porpington’s opinion of house-elves is that they want to work, that they don’t want sick leave or pensions, and this really illustrates to me that Hermione has an uphill struggle.

Andrew: Here’s another question: In Hogwarts Legacy, we can actually go into the kitchens and see the house-elves working there. Do we take that to be canon in our own…? Do we consider that our headcanon, let’s say, that a Hogwarts student could go and enter the kitchens and actually see what’s going on there?

Eric: Yes, because I think the Weasley twins do it, and also, James Potter did it, too, always nicking food from the kitchens.

Andrew: Ah, okay.

Micah: Well, in Hogwarts Legacy, you can not just go and see them there; they’re around the castle too.

Andrew, Eric, and Laura: Yeah.

Micah: Every once in a while you’ll see them pop up, and if you get too close, they Disapparate, but…

Eric: Well, and that’s in line with what I imagine life at Hogwarts really is like, that you would see them, and they don’t love being noticed so they do go away, but you’d be aware of them.

Micah: I do find it interesting, though… you were just talking about two books ago. Hermione really doesn’t say a whole lot of anything as it pertains to Dobby; it’s Harry who is the one who’s adamant about how Dobby is treated and talks about how he must not work for a very good family if he in fact is treated this way. And so obviously, we’re slowly building up. We started with Winky earlier in this book, and now we’re at Hogwarts and we’re seeing Hermione, really as a result of what she experienced at the Quidditch World Cup, start to form opinions. But in this particular situation, how do we feel about the house-elves and how they’re treated at Hogwarts? Because I would have to imagine that Dumbledore takes pretty good care of them. So it’s almost like, yes, her position is a good one, right, in that she’s seeing things through a completely different lens, but is she taking her anger out in the wrong place? And I guess we can talk more about that when we get to SPEW, but presumably the house-elves of Hogwarts are treated well, right? They have a place to live, they have food to eat, they have jobs.

Eric: To your point about Hermione just noticing this now, I will say Dobby only appeared to Harry during the second book, and in fact, it’s said when they’re in the top box…

Micah: But he didn’t share any of this information with Ron or Hermione?

Eric: Well, he could have, but I can understand why Hermione wouldn’t have an opinion before this year, because it’s not until they see Winky… it’s not until Harry says, “Dobby?” in the top box at the Quidditch World Cup that both Hermione and Ron wheel around because they really want to see this type of creature, and so I understand why Hermione is just getting into it now. To your question about are they treated right, I mean, I’m just going to say this once, but even a friendly slave owner is still a slave owner, so Dumbledore has… yeah, okay, Hogwarts is probably a cool place to live, but I don’t think that detracts from any of Hermione’s Points.

Micah: Yeah, I mean, I guess that my question would then be, is that the comparison we’re looking to draw?

Eric: Essentially, I think it might be.

Laura: Yeah, I think absolutely. I mean, unfortunately, you see people try to make these points about real-life historical instances – sometimes prolonged instances – of slavery in this country, and you’ll hear the point be made sometimes about “Certain slave owners actually treated their slaves very well by comparison to everyone else,” but at the end of the day, you’re still a slave. So I guess Hogwarts and Dumbledore and the powers that be may be looking at themselves that way as saying, “Hey, for their circumstances, this is pretty good,” which is really… painful [laughs] to realize about a character and a place that I think we all know and love and holds enormous nostalgia for each of us, that just like everything else, it is flawed, deeply so.

Andrew: Speaking of flawed…

Eric: [laughs] Speaking of flawed, the most flawed tournament of all time is finally announced. We have had hint after hint from many people, most recently by that piss-ant Draco Malfoy, who indicated something was happening – that’s what he is – something was happening this year at Hogwarts. We finally understand it to be the Triwizard Tournament.

Andrew: Yes.

Eric: “Tri” meaning three. It comes from Latin, meaning three. So there will definitely be three champions this year. What were you saying, Andrew?

Andrew: Well, we find out, but not before… there’s almost some foreshadowing that occurs when imposter Moody enters the Great Hall the moment Dumbledore is about to announce the Triwizard Tournament. The quote is, “I have great pleasure in announcing that this year at Hogwarts…” and then, “Troll in the dungeon!” No, Moody enters, and it’s almost like, “I have great pleasure in announcing that this year at Hogwarts, an imposter is going to be seriously screwing with things.”

Eric: Mad-Eye Fakey is going to be.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Mad-Eye Fakey, right. Yeah, we have a little bit of foreshadowing happening there, I think. It’s just… the timing’s too perfect.

Laura: Yeah, I have to check myself real quick because I remember when we were doing our Goblet of Fire commentary – I know I definitely said it; I don’t remember if anyone else said it – but I was poking fun at the movie when they did this, being like, [sarcastically] “Oh, I wonder who the bad guy is.”

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: And I was like, “Come on, guys. Don’t make it so obvious.” And here the book is doing the exact thing. [laughs]

Eric: The book is 100%… yeah, it turns out it’s one of the most faithfully adapted moments in the fourth movie, is this moment.

Andrew: It’s one of those things… I almost wish I remember my first reaction reading this in the year 2000. Was I immediately suspicious? I don’t know.

Laura: I wasn’t.

Eric: Yeah, but it’s all there. It’s all there. Even the hip flask is shown here, and it’s a very untrusting person who drinks only from their own water supply, so they can guard it, make sure there’s no toxins in it. But everything about the execution here… this is all leading to me wanting to give Barty Crouch, Jr. some more points, but I just think that the whole element of how he shows up and he’s able to fool Dumbledore and they shake hands, right before Dumbledore returns to his announcement, is all perfectly executed. So if we’re okay to move on to the actual Triwizard Tournament announcement, it has not happened for 100 years. There are reasons. [laughs] But it was actually a really big popular thing. About 700 years ago, it was invented; it features the three schools in Europe: Hogwarts, Beauxbatons, and Durmstrang. And I’ve got to say, it does seem pretty exciting. It seems like something that’s going to take their mind off of – I think I mentioned before – the previous two years at Hogwarts School. It’s going to get all of the people excited, their school pride flowing; we talked a little bit about school pride earlier. This is kind of cool in concept.

Laura: So this is the second event that we’re seeing in this book that is so hyped up, and allegedly so well-prepared-for by the Ministry, that is going to go toes up. [laughs]

Andrew: Yeah, and we’ll have more to say, I’m sure, later about the Triwizard Tournament and the rules and the security measures, let’s call them, but it’s…

Eric: Yeah, plenty of time to talk about that later.

Andrew: I’ll just say for now – because it’s bugging me – it’s just ridiculous that they can’t just say no to Harry’s name when it comes out of the goblet. Just say, “No. We have Cedric already. Sorry.” That’s it.

Eric: Yeah, the magically binding contract. Well, actually, so about that, that was the only other thing I was going to mention from the Triwizard thing. Dumbledore stuns everybody in saying that there’s an age limit this year, and Fred and George – I think he looks directly at them – make a ruckus because they want to participate. They need the 1,000 Galleon prize and the glory, which may or may not be varying levels of eternal in the books. So they actually, leaving the Great Hall, have spotted what they say is this huge weak spot in the tournament, which is that Dumbledore has not talked about the Goblet of Fire specifically, but he has said that an impartial judge will be determining their value, and even though Albus Dumbledore knows Fred and George’s age, and he knows they aren’t 17, the actual impartial judge, they think, does not. And so it’s interesting because this is something… they’re all walking to their dorms at the end of the chapter, and we’re just listening to Fred and George lament because they’ve been kicked out of the competition, basically. But it’s interesting that this is actually a legitimate weak spot, and it is the same weak spot that is exploited by Barty Crouch, Jr. The fact that the age line and the Goblet of Fire are separate means that whereas most students will be submitting their own name, it’s actually possible to hoodwink it by being somebody who’s of age and putting in a name other than your own. And so it’s interesting because I never remembered this before, but the actual answer to how the whole plot of this year at school is able to unfurl is actually buried in a Fred and George reference when they talk about trying to get themselves in.

Micah: The other thing I would say for this in particular is that we’ve mentioned for numerous chapters now how the world continues to expand, and by inviting Beuaxbatons and Durmstrang into Hogwarts, it’s also another example of world-building, of the wizarding world expanding to be more than it was in Prisoner of Azkaban.

Eric: Absolutely.


Odds & Ends


Eric: So let’s move on to some Odds & Ends, then, real quick. There’s a story that I remember from early days working on MuggleNet, and it has to do with one of the students that is Sorted, and it’s actually a student named Natalie McDonald, who is put into Gryffindor House. And the real-life story behind Natalie is that she was a big fan of Harry Potter, and she had written a letter to J.K. Rowling explaining that she had leukemia, and she talked about with Jo how much she loved the books, and she had asked, I think, how they were going to end because she knew that she would probably not be able to be around when the last Harry Potter books came out. Very, very sad, sad tale. J.K. Rowling read this letter late; she didn’t get to it in time, and by the time she had responded, ended up just reaching Natalie’s mother. And as a tribute to Natalie, J.K. Rowling put her in the books as a character who is brave, who is Sorted into Gryffindor House, and it’s just one of the most touching stories, I think, and fitting tributes to a fan.

Andrew and Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: That’s sweet. And to be solidified in one of the biggest books of all time, that’s really sweet.

Eric: Yeah, so there’s more information on that on the Wikipedia. There’s also some foreshadowing here for the romance between Harry and Cho. When a student is Sorted to the Ravenclaw table, Harry notices that Cho is cheering on the students, and has a fleeting moment where he himself wants to go and sit down at the Ravenclaw… I don’t know what he would say. Like, “Hi, I’ve just been Sorted too,” or something. [laughs]

Andrew: “I’m just visiting. Just checking things out over here.”

Eric: Yeah, yeah. But it’s the first instance of him getting a random thought out of nowhere, and he wants to go and sit by Cho.

Andrew: And then by the end of the chapter, too, Harry is once again thinking about Cho, so she’s on his mind.

Eric: Mmhmm. And Micah, you have some odds and ends as well.

Micah: Yeah, I will say, I found Dumbledore particularly charming in this chapter. He has a few good moments, the exchange with Fred about the Triwizard Tournament, the joke that he gets cut off by McGonagall. He wants to tell a little bit of a…

Andrew: That was funny.

Micah: Yeah, I would love to know the rest of that joke, by the way.

Andrew: [laughs] You should make it up. Think about it for next week.

Eric: That’s it.

Micah: Do you really want me to think about it? Of all the people on this panel, do you want me to come up with the answer?

Eric: No.

Andrew: Maybe for bonus MuggleCast.

Micah: What was it? A leprechaun, a troll, and a wizard go into a bar? Was that right?

Andrew: It may have been a witch.

Micah: All right, well, we’ll look it up.

Andrew: Yeah. But no, you’re right. And also, I was tickled, actually, by when Fred or George make a comment about the Triwizard Tournament as Dumbledore is giving his speech, and Dumbledore actually hears them, which was funny to me because of how big the Great Hall is.

[Eric laughs]

Micah: Yeah, exactly. Dumbledore has got Extendable Ears.

Eric: I think he has a BS detector, or a BS-ometer.

Micah: Along those lines, I was thinking about Dumbledore’s abilities, because we know that he can see through Invisibility Cloaks, correct? But he can’t tell when somebody has taken Polyjuice? That just seems like he should be a little bit better at his job.

Eric: Well, that was explained, though. Dumbledore can’t actually see through Invisibility Cloaks; he has another way of making himself invisible and doesn’t need a cloak for himself, but how he detects Harry under the Invisibility Cloak is by wordlessly casting the Homenum Revelio charm, which illuminates that something is there.

Micah: Oh, okay.

Eric: That was actually answered by the author a while ago.

Andrew: The joke Dumbledore made starts with, “I did hear an excellent one over the summer about a troll, a hag, and a leprechaun who all go into a bar,” and then McGonagall clears her throat loudly. Micah, I am so touched that you have some nice things to say about Albus. I think now we can wrap up this week’s discussion without further ado.

Micah: [laughs] All right.

Eric: Turning over a new leaf here. We like Dumbledore again.

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: Exactly. 2024…

Andrew: That trip to England really refreshed him.

[Micah laughs]

Eric: Finding Dumbledore in the pub really made Micah a fan.

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Micah: You know what, though? It’s going to be short-lived, because I think after all this time, the lie count is back.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: Oh no. The Dumbledore lie count?

Andrew: Explain yourself.

Micah: So there are two things that Dumbledore says in this chapter. The first: “We have worked hard over the summer to ensure that this time, no champion will find himself or herself in mortal danger.” That is a lie.

Laura: Yep.

Eric: [laughs] We need a Maury sound effect. “That was a lie.”

[Dumbledore lie count sound effect plays]

Eric: I forgot we had that good sound effect.

[Laura laughs]

Micah: He says, “Only students who are of age – that is to say, 17 years or older – will be allowed to put forth their names for consideration.” That is a lie.

[Dumbledore lie count sound effect plays]

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: I love that we’re bringing that sound effect out again.

Eric: I’ve missed this so much. Micah, what part of it is a lie? The second one that you said there.

Micah: What part of it is a lie?

Eric: Yeah, that students 17 or older will be allowed to put forth their names.

Micah: Because Harry ends up in the Triwizard Tournament.

Eric: But he didn’t put forth his name. Although, Barty Crouch did, and Barty Crouch is not a student.

Laura: Right.

Andrew: Okay.

Eric: Yeah, that was just… okay.

Andrew: And I mean, Dumbledore didn’t realize that was going to happen. I’ll go with you. I think the lie counts fine.

[Micah laughs]

Eric: All right!

Andrew: I think you can pick some holes in this one.

Micah: It’s been two full books, right?

Eric: It has. Yeah, we stopped in Chamber of Secrets and never went back, until today.

Laura: Yeah. And you also have to ask yourself, okay, how would a reasonable person interpret this statement? “Only students of age can put their own name in the Goblet of Fire.” Any reasonable person can infer that, so I would also call this a lie.

Andrew: All right.

Laura: Yep. Had it coming.

Micah: So we’re up to 12.

Eric: 12 or 13? Because it was at 10.

Andrew and Laura: So 12.

Andrew: All right, a magical number in the Harry Potter series.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: Thrilled to see this going up.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Andrew: Well, with that, it is time for… lie count hit 12, and this is Chapter 12! That’s kind of funny.

Eric: Oh!


MVP of the Week


Andrew: So with that, let’s get to MVP of the week.

[MVP of the Week music plays]

Eric: I’m going to give my MVP to the giant squid, my main cephalopod, for saving Dennis Creevey’s life. Somebody had to do it.

Andrew: And I’m actually going to second this one, because starting and ending the year with a student death would have been a terrible look for the school.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: So thank goodness for squid.

Eric: Not for a lack of trying.

Laura: Yeah, it’s only okay if the kids all have a two-month break afterwards to recover, right?

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Laura: I’m going to give mine to Hermione for her strong convictions. Now, she’s a little young and naive at this point in the series about the best way to address this problem, but she’s sticking to her convictions, and I’ve got to give her props for that.

Micah: She’s going to be hungry, though.

Laura: Yeah, very. It’s not going to last long.

Micah: And I’m going to give my MVP to the Great Hall ceiling for knowing what’s up.

Andrew: It. It is up. The ceiling.

[Eric laughs]

Micah: Yeah, but it started to say, “Hey, Mad-Eye. Bad guy.”

Laura: Hey, that rhymed.

Eric: Mad-Eye, bad guy.

Laura: “Hey, Mad-Eye. Bad guy.”

Eric: Oh, man.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

[MVP of the Week music ends]

Andrew: Liza is also agreeing with you, Micah, about that lie count. She said, “Fred and George put forth their names; they just don’t succeed.” That’s a good point.

Micah: Yeah, why wasn’t there anybody sitting in there just watching the thing the whole time?

Andrew: Right, monitoring, yeah. How about a house-elf? I mean, they could use them for anything.

[Eric laughs]

Laura: Or the Sorting Hat.

[Everyone laughs]

Micah: They could pay it.

Andrew: Or the Hogwarts Ghost Council! There’s a lot of people available within the school.

Micah: Going to get so much bad email after this.

Andrew: [laughs] If you have any feedback about today’s discussion – if you have any criticisms for Micah – you can contact us by emailing or sending a voice memo recorded on your phone to MuggleCast@gmail.com, or by using our phone number, which is 1-920-3-MUGGLE. That’s 1-920-368-4453. Justin also points out, “How about a portrait watching over the goblet?” Again, lots of magic is available. Next week we will discuss Chapter 13, “Mad-Eye Moody.” And now it’s time for our weekly trivia game, Quizzitch.


Quizzitch


[Quizzitch music plays]

Eric: Last week’s question was: Name two of the three items that Dumbledore says Filch has banned this year; he’s added it to his list of banned items. So the three possible answers that we were looking for was Screaming Yo-yos, Fanged Frisbees, and Ever-Bashing Boomerangs, which I would not want to be hit with; that sounds a bit extreme. And if you will recall, at the end of last episode, we did put a rule in place for this month…

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: … that people would need to submit their regular names, and not, in fact, fun, funny usernames that we’ve come to rely a little too heavily on. And so it is with pride that I say that this week’s Quizzitch winners were: My Regular Name…

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Eric: That’s the only one that got away with it. John, Taylor Hill, Samantha Jo, Stephanie, Brennan, Elizabeth K., Michelle D., Daniel O., CJ, Julia, Peace and Love, Harrison.

Andrew: Wow. Our listeners pay attention, follow rules, and are engaged. That’s very sweet.

Eric: I’m very touched.

Micah: The ones that Eric selected followed the rules. I’m sure there are plenty of others that did not.

Eric: Yes, I did not read yours, Micah.

[Laura laughs]

Micah: I did not submit this week.

Laura: Keep fighting, y’all.

[Eric laughs]

Laura: I prefer the fun nicknames. Keep ’em coming.

Micah: I mean, I listened to the episode, but was this all because the two 12-year-olds were fighting?

Eric: Well…

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: I mean, there was kind of a monopoly on names being recognized… yeah, it was a number of reasons. But namely, if we want to farm this out and have the rest of you read the names, I felt bad that the segment was taking minutes and minutes and minutes to read all the long…

Andrew: I do agree. This segment’s getting too long.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: This is turning into an hour-long thing every episode.

Eric: Yeah, I know.

Laura: Okay, that’s a little bit of an exaggeration.

Micah: I will say, part of the charm of Quizzitch is people taking the time to come up with the names because…

Eric: See, I thought the most fun part of Quizzitch – not to interrupt you – was the fact that we’re having a celebration of knowledge and trivia from the book series that we love.

Andrew: I think there’s a beautiful middle ground where we can have fun with the names and quickly move through Quizzitch.

Laura: I think so too.

Eric: I don’t know what that might be. The short-term solution was just to ban the names.

Andrew: By not having this three-minute detour that we just had. That’s one way. [laughs]

Micah: That’s part of the fun.

Eric: Well, then let me introduce next week’s Quizzitch question: What is the trio’s first class of their fourth year at Hogwarts?

Andrew: That’s a fun question.

Eric: Yeah, it’s a fun… the answer might be revealed in the chapter title of next week, but it might not be. I don’t know.

Andrew: [laughs] Well, that gives it away.

Eric: So submit your answer along with your regular or government name – we’re checking –

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: … to us via the Quizzitch form on the MuggleCast website, MuggleCast.com/Quizzitch, or click on “Quizzitch” from the main nav bar at the top of the website.

Andrew: Visit MuggleCast.com for transcripts, social media links, our full episode archive, our favorite episodes on that “Must-Listens” page – which was recently updated – and like we said, to contact us. If you enjoy the show and think other Muggles like you would, too, tell a friend about the show. We’d also appreciate if you left us a review in your favorite podcast app. That does it for this week’s episode of MuggleCast. Thanks, everybody, for listening. I’m Andrew.

Eric: I’m Eric.

Micah: I’m Micah.

Laura: And I’m Laura.

Andrew: Goodbye, everybody.

Micah: Bye.

Laura: Bye, y’all.

Transcript #641

Episode #641:

 

MuggleCast 641 Transcript

 

Transcript for MuggleCast Episode #641, Freshly Floo’d Toast (GOF Chapter 11, Aboard the Hogwarts Express)


Show Intro


[Show music plays]

Andrew Sims: Welcome to MuggleCast, your weekly ride into the wizarding world fandom. I’m Andrew.

Eric Scull: I’m Eric.

Laura Tee: And I’m Laura.

Andrew: And this week, grab your luggage and raincoat because we are choo-chooing back into the wizarding world with Chapter 11 of Goblet of Fire, “Aboard the Hogwarts Express.” Micah is not here this week. Sitting in for Micah, not just the following sound effect…

[Micah’s “Choo-choo” sound effect plays]

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: … but also one of our patrons, longtime Slug Club member Ning Xi! Ning Xi, welcome to the show.

Ning Xi: Hello, I’m so excited to be here!

Andrew: We’re very excited to have you. You are coming to us from Singapore today.

Ning Xi: Yes.

Andrew: Ning Xi even took off work for this! Wow.

Laura: That’s dedication.

Ning Xi: Yes.

Andrew: Instead of taking off work this week, Micah took off MuggleCast. The tables have turned.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Micah is working; you’re not working. It’s great.

Eric: Well, all we really needed was that audio clip for this week, right, Andrew?

Andrew: Yeah.

[Micah’s “Choo-choo” sound effect plays]

Andrew: We’re good.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: Because if Micah were here, he would be contributing “Choo-choo.”

[Micah’s “Choo-choo” sound effect plays]

Andrew: Exactly.

Laura: Right. Only that. Nothing else.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Andrew: No, of course we miss Micah, but it is a chapter that he feels… this is a chapter he would love because the chapter is “Aboard the Hogwarts Express,” and he loves the…

[Micah’s “Choo-choo” sound effect plays]

[Eric laughs]

Ning Xi: We should try to squeeze that into the Seven-Word Summary.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric and Laura: Ooh.

Eric: What if two of the seven words are “choo” and “choo”?

Laura: Yeah, what if that’s the first two?

Eric: Or what if we have two at the end and we don’t know what to do?

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: “Hurray!”

Ning Xi: “Choo-choo.”

Andrew: So Ning Xi, let’s get your fandom ID before we go any further.

Ning Xi: Okay, so my favorite book is Prisoner of Azkaban. My favorite movie is Deathly Hallows – Part 1 because I love camping. What can I say?

[Eric laughs]

Ning Xi: My Hogwarts House is Gryffindor. My Ilvermorny House is Thunderbird. The Wizarding World tells me that my Patronus is a bay mare, which I reject, so it’s actually a rabbit.

[Everyone laughs]

Ning Xi: My wand is twelve and three quarter inches, laurel wood with a phoenix core, and solid flexibility.

Andrew: Fantastic. Well, thank you again for joining us today. We’re very excited to have you. You’ve been a longtime supporter, and we’re just so grateful for your support. Ning Xi will also join us for bonus MuggleCast today; bonus MuggleCast installments are coming to our paid Apple Podcasts subscription starting this week. For just $4.99 a month, you can sign up for MuggleCast Gold, in which you’ll receive ad-free early access to our main show plus two new bonus MuggleCast installments every month, in which we discuss all kinds of things like the latest wizarding world news. This week we’ll discuss recent news about Hogwarts Legacy; it’s the top-selling game of the year – meaning 2023…

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: … and Warner Bros. is teasing more projects in the wizarding world to come, so we’ll talk about that. And we’re also going to touch on what we would like to see added to Hogwarts Legacy if they ever add anything, because they haven’t yet, which is odd. Also a reminder – I’m wearing the beanie right now – the MuggleCast overstock store is open again. This is where you can buy MuggleCast merch and help support the show, and we have this new Comfy Cozy Combo Pack which consists of the MuggleCast beanie and socks. You can purchase this new combo set for $25, which is cheaper than buying the socks and beanie separate, and you’ll be warm on both ends of your Muggle body for winter, so check it out at MuggleMillennial.etsy.com.

Laura: And finally, we just want to give thanks to anyone who leaves us a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Featuring a review that we got this past week from Ultrawilde, who gave us a five-star review and said, “Spellbinding! These are the best group of Harry Potter-obsessed friends you’ll ever have. Truly the OG’s of the podcast game, don’t know where the fandom would be without them!”

Andrew: Thank you!

Laura: Thank you so much. That is so sweet.

Andrew: Yeah, and thank you to everybody who leaves a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts.


Chapter by Chapter: Seven-Word Summary


Andrew: So let’s get into Chapter by Chapter. This week we’re discussing Goblet of Fire Chapter 11, “Aboard the Hogwarts Express,” and we’ll start like we always do with our Seven-Word Summary. Ning Xi is going to kick things off for us. Will it be a “choo”? We’re about to find out.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: What if she sneezes and we’re like, “She did it; she did ‘choo’!” and then she’ll be like, “No, I was just sneezing.”

[Laura and Ning Xi laugh]

Andrew: All right, here we go.

[Seven-Word Summary music plays]

Ning Xi: Traveling…

Laura: … by…

Andrew: … train… [laughs]

Eric: … proves…

Ning Xi: … informative…

Laura: … for…

Andrew: … Harry. For a second there, Laura, I really thought you were going to end this with “choo” and then I was going to come in with a “choo.”

[Everyone laughs]

[Seven-Word Summary music ends]

Andrew and Laura: “Traveling by train proves informative, choo-choo.”

Eric: “Choo-choo!”

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Yeah, we would have gotten the message across still. [laughs]

Eric: Ning Xi, you did great, especially because you did double duty filling in for Micah here.

Laura: Yes.

Ning Xi: Oh, it’s fine. I definitely did not stress over this. [laughs] “Why am I starting this?”

Laura: Good.


Chapter by Chapter: Main Discussion


Andrew: So this chapter begins with the summer break about to end and an urgent call from the Ministry comes in, and Harry listens in as Amos Diggory via fireplace delivers some news to Arthur about Mad-Eye. Overnight, someone tried to break into Mad-Eye’s house, and in addition to this being our introduction to Mad-Eye, this is also the first time we’re seeing someone communicate via fire. So I actually wanted to start talking about communicating via fireplace via the Floo Network, because I’ve got a couple of questions concerning this. So first of all, why did Rowling choose fire as the method for communication and transportation? Transportation I can maybe understand, because fire could arguably represent, let’s say, you’re being cremated, you’re being transformed… that’s a bit of a dark example. Fire represents a lot of things, but communication is not one of them. And head-only transportation is another aspect of utilizing the Floo Network, seemingly only for a chat and maybe a piece of toast, which we will also get to. But was this the right branch of magic to put a glorified telephone call under? I would argue this method of communication should be unassociated with the Floo Network, because these two things don’t really tie together for me. Why is this under the Floo Network? And why does it have to be via fireplace? [laughs]

Laura: Yeah, it’s a good question, especially because in the next book, as we’ve established, we do get the wizarding version of DMs. [laughs] So it’s interesting that this was chosen. I was thinking, Andrew, when you were mentioning that fire can be representative of a rebirth or turning into something else, it can also be representative of cleansing things, too, and I wonder if there was some kind of intentional choice with those two themes in mind around the idea of travel and the idea of communication, that somehow fire plays a part in whatever transformation you go through, metaphorically if there is one, or if it incentivizes more truthfulness. It feels like a stretch, but also, I’m trying to figure out why exactly fireplaces specifically.

Eric: I think I have a take on that, which is the… and I like the Floo Network in general. I think that one of the reasons the Floo Network was chosen for travel is because even the oldest cottages back from the Dark Ages had chimneys.

Andrew: Ohh.

Laura: True.

Eric: So a chimney is something that everyone has, and so you could potentially easily connect to other wizards no matter where they are. No matter how remote they are, everyone’s got a fireplace. So that idea coupled with how the Floo Network, we’re told it works, where a grate has to be added to the network – and we find out in later books, too, you can take a grate off and things like that – that actually is very, very, very much akin to how telephones were. When telephones first started out, they had to manually be… I mean, there was a manual switchboard, wires run under the ground to everyone’s home. And so when we see Amos Diggory here FaceTiming, essentially, the Weasleys, I think it has to do with the convergent evolution of phones into video call devices.

Laura and Ning Xi: Yeah.

Eric: Because she took that… the Floo Network very much was a telephone-style network, so if that was to evolve into a face medium, like a video medium, then the equivalent would be you travel but only partially to… does that make sense?

Ning Xi: Kind of makes sense.

Laura: I like it.

Eric: I think it’s kind of based on how the Floo Network was set up to begin with. Okay, so Rowling was probably like, “Hey, if the telephone evolved into the video phone, then my equivalent of the telephone has to evolve into the video phone somehow.”

Andrew: Interesting.

Ning Xi: Actually, I just had a sudden thought when Eric was talking about the chimneys. Do you think very, very ancient wizards used smoke signals with the chimney?

Eric: I mean, possibly.

Ning Xi: Maybe that’s why they kept the fireplace system. And then they were like, “Look, we can improve this communication by actually going through it,” or something.

Laura: That is so cool.

Eric: Yeah, I mean, the Vatican still uses smoke signals.

[Laura laughs]

Ning Xi: Yes, they do.

Andrew: Yeah. Okay, yeah.

[Eric laughs]

Laura: I love that idea. It adds a layer, I think, because as Eric, you were talking, I was like, “Oh my gosh, this makes total sense,” that wizards would assume, or at least wizards in the UK would be like, “Well, everybody has a chimney,” when it’s like, well, in reality, not everybody has a chimney around the world. But I love, Ning Xi, how you added this layer of like, “No, no, it was the ancient cultures that did this, and the Europeans just took it and made it their own.”

Eric: And also, I mean, keep in mind how weird it is to Arthur Weasley at the beginning of this book that the Dursleys have boarded up their fireplace.

Andrew: [laughs] “How do you talk?”

Eric: Yeah, he views it like a major thoroughfare, like everyone’s chimney is actually their front door, because I think to wizards, it is in a way.

Andrew: This question got me thinking, what other common household item could have been a phone instead of the fireplace? I was thinking a portrait, of course; we know you can talk to portraits to some extent. But how about something a little more original? How about a house plant, and the head pops up as a new bulb on the top of the plant, and the leaves are like arms so they can be all animated? I thought that could be fun.

Eric: I only like this, Andrew, if it’s the old style telephone where you have the mouthpiece and the receiver…

[Andrew and Ning Xi laugh]

Eric: … and you’re putting the bulb of a flower to your ear and having to talk into the stem. That would be really lovely.

Laura: Honestly, that sounds like nightmare fuel to me.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: It kind of does, yeah. Just picturing one of y’all’s heads on top of a plant kind of scares me. No offense.

[Laura laughs]

Ning Xi: Yeah, especially at night.

Andrew: Yes. Or I was thinking a lamp, because it’s the light bulb, an idea, so it turns on… but anyway, thank you for your reasoning here, panel, because I just thought it was so interesting that the telephone call was an extension of the Floo Network, even though it’s already used for something pretty powerful. So it does two things.

Eric: It’s a good point.

Laura: What I’m thinking about now that we’ve made the FaceTime connection… I think we all know people who will unprompted FaceTime call you.

Andrew: Oh, I hate that.

Laura: Yeah, not my jam either. What happens if somebody tries to Floo call you and you don’t want to take the call? Can you decline it?

Andrew: Great question.

Laura: Or does their head just pop up in your fireplace?

Eric: Can they see into your living room?

Ning Xi: Just throw water on it.

Andrew: Yeah, at any moment that they want. See, Vernon is smart for boarding up his fireplace because he had this thought, Laura, many years ago.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: Vernon was the original… privacy protected the webcam.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: I was like, “Where did Eric’s camera go?” [laughs] I missed him thumbing it…

Eric: No, I literally have one of those… I have those little…

Ning Xi: A slider?

Eric: I have a webcam slider thing. It came with my laptop case.

Andrew: Oh, okay.

Eric: But yeah, it’s crazy to think about that. Maybe the fire needs to be started, like going. I think it’s probably a movie-ism that you can take an empty fireplace and just throw the powder down or whatever. But I think maybe if you start the fire, that opens the call, so you’re available. It’s like the equivalent of unplugging the cord from the… I mean, many people listening won’t know what I’m talking about…

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: … but unplugging the telephone cable from the wall when you didn’t want to take a call, and you’d get a busy signal.

Andrew: Yeah, yeah.

Ning Xi: Maybe they just throw water if like, “Oh, no, I do not want to talk to this person.” Get a bucket of water and…

Eric: Get a bucket. Throw it on the flames.

Andrew: We don’t have to get in the nitty gritty here, but they got this call from Amos in the morning, so was the fire lit in the morning? Maybe it could have been, but it was also summertime so they probably wouldn’t have it lit.

Eric: Well, and wizarding homes… that’s the other thing; I mean, Britain is cold even in the summer, and there’s not a lot of indoor climate control in a lot of places, so you probably always do have a fire going, to be honest. But maybe wizarding homes probably always have the fire going unless they don’t want to take a call.

Andrew: Or that’s how Molly was grilling her toast.

[Ning Xi laughs]

Andrew: She was keeping it over the fire and that’s why she offered Amos that piece of toast. Of course, we do have to address that the way the movies handled the fireplace phone call… it was really bad, particularly in Goblet of Fire. It just did not look good with Sirius’s head popping out of the embers.

Laura: No.

Andrew: Whereas in Order of the Phoenix it was a little bit better; you see him in the flame. They realized how they did it in Goblet was not good. So it’ll be interesting to see what they do with the television adaptation, if it’ll be any better.

Laura: Well, they listened to us trash the Goblet of Fire effect – because we definitely did here on the show – and they were like, “Ugh, okay.”

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Well, it’s even more… the way it’s described in the book – I was paying close attention to this during this reread – it’s just more canonical the way they have it in Movie 5. Nobody ever said the embers themselves were constructing the face.

Andrew: Okay.

Eric: And that’s why they did it this way in Movie 4. Somebody had an idea that they ran with in this movie, and it fell a little flat.

Laura: So despite the fact that Amos may have called super early in the morning, maybe much to the chagrin of Molly and Arthur, he actually is calling with important information, and it’s that Mad-Eye Moody – brand new character alert – has been attacked at his home. And it’s particularly concerning for some reason, because it’s the day before he’s starting his new job. Hmm, wonder where? And just wanted to call out here… I thought we could do this throughout this book, have something called “Keeping an Eye on Mad-Eye” to look at all of the clues that come up throughout the book about Barty Crouch, Jr. actually being imposter Moody. And this is the point where Mad-Eye Moody is attacked in his home; this is the point where Crouch Jr. kidnaps him and ultimately Polyjuice Potions himself into him and holds him hostage for the next 10 months.

Andrew and Ning Xi: Yeah.

Ning Xi: Poor Mad-Eye, though, honestly.

Andrew: Yeah, for real. And Mad-Eye had the dustbins as a security system, and it’s assumed during this chapter that he set up those dustbins and they went off like they should as he intended, but we later learn that it was Crouch Jr. who purposely set them off as a distraction.

Eric: It’s so smart. Barty Crouch, Jr. as a character… we’re just getting into going through the reread where he becomes a factor, and he’s pretty talented. And despite his leanings, which are very concerning – he is in fact a Death Eater and a very loyal supporter to Voldemort – but aside from that one little fact, I think this guy is great. I think he’s really cool.

Andrew: Yeah. Wow.

Eric: Certainly accomplished.

[Andrew laughs]

Ning Xi: He gets the job done.

Eric: Yeah. So I don’t want to eat my words, but I think I’ll be keeping track of other cool or accomplished… impressive moments for Barty Crouch.

Andrew: Okay.

Ning Xi: Also, for the TV series, I kind of hope they show this scene at the start of the episode. Somebody got attacked or something as the starting point before they have the opening credits; you know how they do that. So yeah, I think that would be cool.

Laura: I agree.

Andrew: I mean, Goblet of Fire didn’t open with this – the movie, I’m referring to – but it opened with…

Eric: Frank Bryce.

Andrew: Frank Bryce, right, yeah. Something like that, like a cold open, so to speak. Well, speaking of the toast, which we’ve mentioned a couple of times, let’s circle back to this just for a moment. I thought it was really funny that Molly does offer Amos some toast.

Eric: Yeah, it’s just a funny sight gag, how weird it is for somebody’s face to be in your fireplace, but then Molly is able to pass food to him. And it’s toast, which if she screws it up, still is going to taste good because the fire is going to toast it a little bit more.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: So this is just a very… for me, reading that… I know every time I read this chapter, I’m just like, “I love magic. That’s so fun.” The fact that you… it’s my “I love magic” moment in Goblet.

Andrew: [laughs] So we need a MuggleCast T-shirt that has a picture of toast being fed into a fireplace and it says “I love magic” underneath it.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: That’s what impresses us most about the wizarding world.

Ning Xi: Toast.

Eric: Being fed through…

Andrew: Toast. The transfer of toast through a fireplace.

Laura: Toast is pretty great.

Eric: Well, and if you think about how many hundreds of miles away Amos’s body is from his mouth, that’s where the magic is impressive.

Laura and Ning Xi: Yeah.

Laura: And see, this is another example of how the wizarding world defies physics. I wish that we had brought this one up when we did the physics of Harry Potter discussion because it would have been really interesting to try and explain how that works.

Eric: It’s a portal.

Ning Xi: Yeah, it’s a portal.

Eric: It’s different than splinching because you’re not cut off at any point. It’s just your head’s going through a portal.

Andrew: It could be a way – and sorry, this is another dark thought from me for this episode – could this magic be used to solve world hunger? Let’s say a food desert. People could walk up to a fireplace and be fed food from areas of the world where food is more easily accessible. I don’t know why this jumped to my mind, but it did.

Laura: And they can also apparently duplicate food…

Andrew: Right.

Ning Xi: Oh, yeah.

Laura: … and pass it through the Floo FaceTime network.

Eric: We solved world hunger.

Laura: Yeah, work smarter, not harder, man!

Eric: We solved wizarding world hunger just now.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: It would also be a really cute way to easily enjoy a home-cooked meal while you were, say, at Hogwarts for term. So Ron is like, “Oh, I’m hungry. I’m missing Mom’s delicious toast and eggs.” And then he walks up to the fireplace, unlocks his jaw…

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: … and Molly just tosses a bunch of breakfast into his mouth. “Thanks, Mom.”

Laura: But then he’d have to…

Andrew: But let’s get back to Mad-Eye. [laughs]

Laura: Oh yeah, go ahead. Let’s keep it moving.

[Laura and Ning Xi laugh]

Andrew: Okay, we start to learn about Mad-Eye; this is the first time for both Harry and the reader. He’s a former Auror admired by Arthur and Dumbledore. George, however, thinks he’s a bit of a nutter, and Bill counters that he was a great wizard in his time, and as we later learn, of course, he still is.

Eric: I think it’s really interesting watching everyone talk about Mad-Eye Moody. So we’re learning about this, and the Weasley kids are there talking about it, too, and Mad-Eye’s reputation is called into account. He’s called “Mad-Eye” for many reasons. But there’s this opinion that he’s kind of lost his touch, and “He’s so paranoid in his old age, oh my God.” And it’s funny to see him be so discredited because as we’ve established, he actually has been attacked; it was a credible attempt on his freedom, and in fact, they were successful. So it’s funny to see it being couched as “He’s paranoid” and “Probably a small cat or something set off the dustbins,” because it allows us to not be as suspicious. So it’s hiding in plain sight, what really happened, and that makes for clever writing.

Andrew: And the dustbins themselves feed that idea that he is nuts, because who would turn dustbins into a security system? Only a nutter like Mad-Eye.

Eric: Clearly he’s losing it.

[Andrew and Ning Xi laugh]

Eric: And listening to the kind of people that do respect Mad-Eye, it’s people like Dumbledore, and Dumbledore is also not fully credible. I think we… well, this is a conversation that happens in this chapter, too, that “Dad collects plugs,” and Arthur loves Mad-Eye, but there you have it. So again, it’s really smart to call into question the capability and the sanity of Mad-Eye, especially in advance of his year of teaching at Hogwarts, because it allows us to suspect nothing.

Andrew: Harry is about to find out in I guess the next chapter that Mad-Eye is going to be their DADA teacher, too, so it’s also setting up that. [laughs] Congrats, here’s teacher number four, and he’s a nutjob. Enjoy.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: What do you think, Ning Xi?

Ning Xi: I think whether there is also an element of Mad-Eye being the boy who cried wolf too many times. So everybody’s like, “Eh, it’s not really worth investigating because it’s clearly a false alarm,” so nobody ever bothers to put in even a modicum of effort to try and see if there’s an issue. And I think even in the real world this happens a lot, so it’s reflective of that as well.

Eric: That’s a good point.

Ning Xi: I mean, in an ideal world, of course, any complaints would get investigated or at least checked out, and I wonder how differently the story would have went if there was even a seed of suspicion or doubt that was planted from this initial incident with Mad-Eye.

Laura: Yeah, I agree with that. And I love that you brought this up, Ning Xi, because it really made me think about how this compares to Frank Bryce and what Frank Bryce goes through earlier in this book. So his community is so quick to accept the idea of him being a murderer because in their minds, the war turned him funny, right? The war did something to him; he’s never been the same since the war trauma he went through. And Mad-Eye is also someone who carries both literal and metaphorical war wounds that are used in this case to invalidate him as just being paranoid and to remove his credibility, which makes him the perfect target.

Eric: This also brings up, I think, a recurring theme now at this point in the book, which is the complacency that the wizarding world at large has fallen into. Another reason of the many that they don’t believe Mad-Eye is in any danger, that any Death Eater, anybody untoward would seek him out, is because they largely believe that Death Eaters aren’t around anymore, that all of them are in Azkaban, even though they’ve just been proven wrong within the last week or so by the emergence of a bunch of them at the Quidditch World Cup. Everyone still thinks that it’s safe, and who would ever go after Mad-Eye? He’s an Auror; you can get more than you’re bargaining for there. But it’s true.

Andrew: Is this another point for your “Barty Crouch, Jr. is pretty good, actually” count, Eric?

[Laura laughs]

Eric: It could be. I’m going to have to get a sound effect if we keep getting so many counts so quickly…

[Andrew and Ning Xi laugh]

Eric: … and it’d probably be that ridiculous line from the movie. [imitating Barty Crouch, Jr.] “Hello, Father,” or something.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Eric is a really good voice actor.

Laura: You have to do the weird tongue thing too.

[Eric makes a weird tongue noise]

[Laura and Ning Xi laugh]

Eric: I think that it’s testament to the environment that Barty Crouch, Jr. is able to navigate and traverse through. I mean, presumably, he threw off his father’s Imperius Curse like it ain’t no thing. He did it at the Quidditch World Cup, but there was never any ramifications afterwards. The spell didn’t come down harder. So Barty Crouch, Jr. learning to throw that off, and then said that he’d be able to go and abduct Moody on schedule. [laughs] Because if he misses it, if he’s late by a day, Moody is already at Hogwarts and you’re never going to be able to do this. So yes, Andrew, I would say that that actually is another point for Barty Crouch, Jr.

Andrew: [imitating Barty Crouch, Jr.] “Yes, Father,” or whatever.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: “Hello, Father.”

Laura: Eric, you’ve got to record it now.

Ning Xi: Man, David Tennant was so underused in the movies.

Andrew: Oh, yeah.

Laura: I agree.

Eric: Yeah. Reduced to a plot point with a quiver.

Andrew: So I mentioned Mad-Eye becoming the DADA teacher. We don’t know that he’s going to be the DADA teacher yet. It’s hinted that he’s starting a new job; that’s the only clue. But reading this with the benefit of hindsight, the fact that the new DADA teacher is already in some trouble… if Harry thinks back to this after three years of changing DADA teachers, the writing was on the wall for Mad-Eye at the outset.

Eric and Ning Xi: Yeah.

Eric: And yet, I still appreciate that there’s a twist to it, right? So unlike prior DADA teachers, there’s something new in Mad-Eye. By the end of the book, we learn not only that it wasn’t in fact him, but we do get to see the real Mad-Eye eventually, and so the next couple years… he’s not dissolved into ashes the way Quirrell is and he’s not permanently memory-revoked the way that…

Andrew and Ning Xi: True.

Eric: It’s yet another way for a DADA teacher at Hogwarts to end up, to wind up. And actually, if we consider Barty Crouch, Jr. was actually the DADA teacher, then he got the Dementor’s Kiss at the end of the year, so it works both ways.

Andrew: One more thing regarding the Amos FaceTime call: He uses the phrase “please-men” instead of policemen. It got me thinking, what would please-men actually be? [laughs]

Eric: Well, they would please everybody. They would be very well-loved and a bastion of their community. They would deescalate heavy conflict, they would probably not carry guns, and they’d just be very pleasing maybe to look at. [laughs]

Ning Xi: Oh, like hot firemen calendars?

Andrew and Laura: Yes!

Eric: Like firemen calendars. Exactly, Ning Xi. You got it.

Andrew: When your cat gets stuck in a tree, when your Mrs. Norris gets stuck in a tree, you call up the please-men and “Please come save my cat, man.” And they’re happy to help grab that cat while looking attractive.

Eric: It’d be a simpler world.

Andrew: And then you give them some toast at the end as a thank you.

Eric: Oh, yeah.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: All right, so anyway, let’s move on to what happens aboard the Hogwarts Express, this chapter’s namesake. So they get on the train and the trio listen in on Draco discussing Durmstrang, and we learn the Malfoys have a fondness for the school because they do not accept Muggle-borns. Which, by the way, is an interesting tidbit because Hermione later goes to the Yule Ball with Krum, so maybe Krum has something to say about that. Or maybe this is actually a little bit of proof that this actually isn’t true?

Eric: I had forgotten this tidbit that Malfoy throws out, and I have to call him on it. This has to be inaccurate, right, that Durmstrang doesn’t take Muggle-borns? And the reason is, it’s one of three magical wizarding schools in Europe, and there’s simply no way that they’re allowing all of these Muggle-born wizards, who can fully wield a wand and use magic, to not be educated and learn how to use it safely. We never see anybody sent to Hogwarts that’s like, “Oh, I would be going to Durmstrang right now, but I’m Muggle-born, hey.” So I just think it can’t possibly be the case that Durmstrang says “Absolutely not” to Muggle-born.

Andrew and Laura: Yeah.

Ning Xi: Could it…?

Laura: Oh, go ahead, Ning Xi.

Ning Xi: I was just thinking, could it be they have this reputation of not picking Muggle-borns, but somewhere along the line they realize, “Yeah, that’s not going to work; we’ll just quietly take them in”? And it’s not really advertised, so people who want to believe what they believe still think that only pure-bloods go to that school, I guess.

Laura: I like that.

Eric: Yeah, so 14-year-old Malfoy doesn’t understand the whole nuance of it. Man, that makes me feel bad that there’s these second class citizen status Muggle-borns at Durmstrang, where they don’t get to come on the ship to Hogwarts. They’re left behind.

Andrew: Aww.

Laura: Yeah, I mean, my thinking is there probably are. I would assume it’s not a large number of Muggle-born students there, but there are probably some, and to be honest, based on who their headmaster is, it’s probably not the most comfortable environment to be in, which got me thinking about this idea: Maybe there are some Muggle-born students at Durmstrang who “pass” as half-blood or pure-blood somehow. I’m drawing real world comparisons and thinking about the ways that white supremacy has dominated all kinds of spaces, but there have been people over time who have been able to successfully “pass” as white so that they can be in those spaces, which is still a dangerous position for them to be in, but it is a real thing that’s happened. So I’m wondering if that’s possible here with Durmstrang.

Eric: Yeah. I mean, all wizarding governments have to abide by the Statute of Secrecy, so to my mind, again, it doesn’t make sense for them to not educate their Muggle-borns, especially how to not allow your magic to explode out of you.

Andrew: I’m also picturing a wizarding world spinoff TV show… where maybe it’s not set at Durmstrang; maybe it is. I don’t think Durmstrang is a particularly appealing school for HBO to sell a premise around. But it would be cool to see a storyline where there’s a Muggle-born undercover going to a school that doesn’t accept Muggle-borns. I think that’d be fun to see them try to project this image of being from a pure-blood family, a half-blood family. I don’t know what the tension would be there, but to me that sounds like an interesting premise.

Laura: I agree.

Andrew: Being almost undercover at a wizarding school and trying to pull it off.

Ning Xi: “Undercover Muggle.”

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Andrew: The Undercover Boss spinoff we’ve been waiting for. So more about Durmstrang: Draco also likes that the school lets students learn the Dark Arts, “not just the defense rubbish.” Now, I actually could maybe side with Draco here, and I’m speaking as somebody who has used the Dark Arts spells in Hogwarts Legacy, so maybe I’m very biased here. Eric has not, right? You say you haven’t.

Eric: There’s one of them that Eleanor Rigby has not used yet, and it’s the death curse.

Andrew: [gasps] Avada Kedavra!

Laura: Oh, this is news! I thought you originally didn’t want to use any Unforgivable Curses.

Eric: Oh, you have to use two of the others to beat the game, I’m pretty sure. [laughs]

Laura: Well, but I mean, you don’t have to accept it, right? You won’t beat the game, but you can choose not to learn them.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Eric: No, Laura, I must beat the game.

[Everyone laughs]

Ning Xi: Completionist.

Andrew: He’ll do anything except Avada Kedavra to beat the game.

Eric: Yeah, this one seems more plausible, right? That Durmstrang does have a lean towards the Dark Arts. Grindelwald himself went there. This is book canon that it has not just a reputation, but seems to follow through with it. Again, Laura, your point: Their headmaster is a Death Eater – or former Death Eater, arguably. But so this I get, however, the only Dark Arts examples that we have are things like the killing curse, the torture curse, the “Take away your autonomy and make you do whatever I want you to” curse. We know that killing leaves a mark on your soul; Slughorn says so in Book 6, and that’s… can’t really easily get rid of that. So is it actually a good thing that they’re allowed to do Dark Arts? Because all this Dark stuff is leaving tarnish marks and comes at a cost.

Andrew and Ning Xi: Yeah.

Andrew: I just think it would be helpful to learn more other than the “defense rubbish,” just so you have a complete picture of how the Dark Arts work. Am I suggesting Avada Kedavra on another wizard? Of course not. [laughs] Even an animal, wouldn’t want that. Can you set up dummies maybe to give people a test, just like in Hogwarts Legacy, actually, you got some dummies to play with from time to time?

Eric: [laughs] Well, I was going to say, it’s like telling someone, “You can have a little torture, as a treat.”

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Where’s the line here? And maybe it is like they do in Hogwarts Legacy – I’m pretty sure that this is accurate – you’re trying to get into Salazar Slytherin’s… is it septorium or something? And your friend has to curse you because in order to get in, it needs to experience the curse, and so you both consent and agree to have the curse performed on you or on him or something like that. That’s something I can see being an example of what would happen in a school where they teach Dark Arts. But if you’re being instructed and it’s straightforward pedagogical lesson, I don’t think you can actually give consent. I don’t know how any of this would actually work in practice.

Laura: I wonder if there’s some wizarding world equivalent to the drunk goggles. Did y’all ever have to use those in high school when you were learning how to drive? And they wanted you to experience what it was like if you were driving drunk, so they would give you these goggles that impaired your vision. And they obviously would not put you behind the wheel of a car, but they would ask you to try to walk around and it was really weird. So they were trying to give you practical experience without actually giving you practical experience.

Andrew: For me, drunk goggles are any pair of prescription glasses.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Like Ning Xi, your glasses.

Ning Xi: Yeah, I’m basically blind without my glasses.

Andrew: There you go.

Ning Xi: I just need to take them off and that will be fine.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: You were going to say something; go ahead.

Ning Xi: Yeah, I mean, because I do research in my day job, I’m coming at it from this angle: In real life, we have labs that actually research on viruses like smallpox or actual dangerous chemicals, so I feel like this could possibly be the same case in the wizarding world. So you learn about the theory, or there’s some sort of controlled environment you can learn about that magic so you can develop a counter-curse, because that’s how we try to research and find cures to things. We have to get access to cancer cells, we have to get access to virus cells, things like that. But of course, everything is very controlled. There’s a lot of different laws and regulations you have to obey in order to do that. Example for a chemical lab in Singapore, if you need to buy chemicals that could potentially be used to make drugs or explosives, you actually need to get a license. Chemicals have to be kept under lock and key, you have to sign out every time you take the chemical out, and you have to record down how much you use it. So I guess you could put in regulations to ensure it happens, but you’ll probably be, I guess, mid level. I don’t really see 11-year-olds running around trying to learn that magic.

Eric: Right.

Andrew: Oh, yeah.

Laura: That’s true.

Eric: And that’s the thing: After all those regulations, is it really worth learning Dark Arts, then? Andrew, do you still think it’s more valuable than just the “defense rubbish”? And if only seventh years are doing it, then you can’t really say the school as a whole teaches Dark Arts.

Andrew: Yeah, I guess what has me thinking along these ways is in the next book, they have to put together Dumbledore’s Army to actually get prepared for the fight ahead. That’s sort of what I’m thinking along the lines of.

Eric: Yeah, practical…

Andrew: Of course, the Dark Arts are a unique exception, though. And I’m just in a dark questioning mood tonight, it seems. But anyway…

Laura: Because Micah is not here.

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: Andrew is shook.

Andrew: I’m shook. I’m shooketh. Let’s talk about something else we learn about Hogwarts. It’s funny to read this for the first time now; it’s something it feels like we’ve known since before we were reading the first book. We learn that Hogwarts is hidden from Muggles; Hermione says all they see is a smoldering old ruin with a sign over the entrance saying, “Danger, do not enter, unsafe.” This is also news to Harry and Ron because unlike Hermione, they have not read Hogwarts: A History, I believe is what she said she reads this in. So it begs a lot of questions, though, about how this exactly works, and we really have never found out since then how this goes down if a Muggle tries to approach. So okay, they see that sign, “Danger, do not enter, unsafe.” But we all know Muggles love exploring abandoned ruins. There’s YouTube channels dedicated to this. I have loved going into empty houses nearby. As a child, behind my house there was another abandoned house; I would go into it from time to time. People love to explore. Naturally, Muggles are going to start exploring this smoldering old ruin. So what does happen if a Muggle walks in? Any guesses? Do the Dark Arts come down on them? Do they get Avada Kedavra‘d?

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Eric: I mean, there could be…

Ning Xi: Smited to death.

Andrew: That’s how Hogwarts students get to practice. Sorry, go ahead.

Eric: Yeah, there could be secondary charms and things in place; Hermione maybe is only listing the first one. Because if you look at the Quidditch World Cup, we were told that there was an anti-Muggle charm on it that would make you think that you forgot something at home. “Oh, I left the oven on, crap. I can’t ignore that.” Something like that, where initially, yes, it’s a ruin, but if you go closer, then you forget something or you become convinced that somebody that you genuinely love is in ill health and you need to visit them right away. Some kind of psychological deterrent, in addition to… because you’re right; making it a ruin wouldn’t really deter most people, especially now with all the YouTube traveler people that you’re talking about.

Andrew: And drones.

Ning Xi: Yeah. I wonder if maybe it’s like a mirage. You’re like, “Oh, I would still like to go there,” but you just keep walking towards it, but you never quite reach it.

Eric: I like that idea.

Andrew: That’s really cool.

Laura: I do like that.

Andrew: Imagine that YouTube video. “I see it right there, but I can’t get any closer. There’s like, an invisible treadmill moving the other direction, the opposite way.

[Andrew and Ning Xi laugh]

Laura: Honestly, and this is why technology ultimately breaks the Statute of Secrecy, because with smartphones and all the YouTubers and urban explorers that y’all are talking about that are out there… sorry, there’s no way that you’re keeping the genie in the bottle here. Muggles are going to find out. [laughs]

Eric: Hey, rich of you to think that video cameras would work at Hogwarts anyway or that close to the…

Andrew: Ohh.

Ning Xi: Oh, yeah.

Eric: It’s like going to haunted houses. It would cut out at the right moment and nothing would be picked up.

Laura: Yeah, but I feel like people would still create clickbait content about places like that. They already do. And I mean, think about if some major magical event goes down in a public Muggle space and somebody happens to video it and put it up on YouTube. You’re done. You gonna Obliviate the Internet?

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: I don’t think so.

Eric: Did you guys see that supposed alien at the mall in… was it Florida or something? There was a huge cop presence and…

Ning Xi: Oh, yeah.

Eric: There’s little click-baity type stuff like that all the time. I don’t know, Laura, you’ve convinced me we have to go to Scotland and try and find Hogwarts.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Laura: Didn’t somebody already do that?

Andrew: Wasn’t there a documentary about that?

Eric: We should videotape it too. Just some friends going and trying to find Hogwarts.

Ning Xi: Get Micah to do that. Isn’t he in Europe now?

Andrew and Laura: Oh, yeah.

Andrew: He’s pretty close.

Eric: That’s it.

Laura: He’s practically right there, right? [laughs]

Andrew: Compared to the rest of us, he’s right in the backyard. I do also like the idea – I can’t remember who said it a few minutes ago, that maybe there’s – maybe it was you, Laura – there’s another rule Hermione doesn’t know about. Maybe the wizarding public at large do not know about, because by revealing it, then you’re giving people more clues about how to bypass these security measures, potentially. Then again, as I say that, we’re also reminded Hogwarts is a security nightmare, so maybe there’s not much else going on.

Ning Xi: True.

Laura: That’s very true. And credit where credit’s due, that was Eric.

Andrew: Oh, sorry.

Eric: Well, and we hear about this deterrent, but we have no examples of Muggles getting deterred, actually, or seeing the ruin. In fact, Jacob Kowalski at the end of the second Fantastic Beasts film walks straight up to Hogwarts, is grinning ear to ear; he can clearly see it. Maybe that man just loves his old ruins.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: But then in the next movie is able to walk around in Hogwarts, so whether that’s Dumbledore’s doing or whether this charm is bunco and is actually not a thing at all… what does Jacob see?

Andrew: I could see a special pass being granted when they do want a Muggle to be allowed in. But that should have been addressed, because I feel like this is a big plot point that fans have known about for a really long time, and to just pull that out from under us is surprising. We were owed a bit of an explanation, I think.

Eric: Oh, that’s that whole movie summarized.

[Andrew and Ning Xi laugh]

Laura: Yeah, I mean, let’s be real; that wasn’t the first time that the Fantastic Beasts franchise played fast and loose with canon.

Eric: The sequels.

Laura: My crackpot theory is that they left a loose end there in order to reveal ultimately that Jacob is actually somehow magical, in the event that they ever got greenlit for a fourth movie.

Eric:The Secrets of Kowalski.”

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: By falling in love with a witch or wizard…

Laura: Right.

Andrew: … I don’t know.

Eric: You retroactively backwards through time can see Hogwarts, a school that Queenie didn’t even go to.

Andrew: No, you become a wizard yourself, is where I was going with that.

Eric: Oh, okay.

Ning Xi: Ohh.

Andrew: You become a half-blood… a half-love-blood… a love-blood… [laughs]

Laura: Right, you make out with a witch and you become magical. [laughs]

Andrew: You’re swapping spit.

Eric: It was the magic of their eventual descendant Anthony Goldstein…

Andrew: Yes.

Eric: … that allowed the great-great-great-grandfather of him, Jacob Kowalski, to see Hogwarts.

[Laura and Ning Xi laugh]

Andrew: Being a wizard, becoming a wizard, is highly contagious. That’s how there’s so many witches and wizards out there. We also learn, just like Hogwarts, that Durmstrang and Beauxbatons are concealed so nobody can steal their secrets. It seems weird to me that even fellow wizards from outside schools don’t know where these schools are. And let’s also remember that students from these schools are coming to Hogwarts, and they’re probably figuring out where Hogwarts is, or they’re going to get some clues, at least, when they look around the castle grounds.

Eric: Ohh, security breach!

[Ning Xi laughs]

Andrew: Yeah, it’s so unfair. And also, that was a quote; they’re hidden so “nobody can steal their secrets.” What secrets are we even talking about here?

Eric: The secrets of Dumbledore, Andrew.

Andrew: [laughs] The secrets of Durmstrang.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: The secrets of Durmstrang-dore. I feel like it doesn’t make any sense in the way Hermione is like, “Well, of course they’re concealed, aren’t they? No one knows where they are.” This is all Hermione, so maybe we take it with a grain of salt. Maybe she’s on her soapbox and just making stuff up. But to your point, somebody has to know where it is, and certainly the kids going… or Harry and Ron, remember, they had to find their way to the school in their second year, and they had to be able to find it to do that.

Andrew and Ning Xi: Yeah.

Ning Xi: I find it very hard to believe that the general country or city that the school is set in is unknown, because no parent is going to send their 11-year-old just wherever.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: That’s true.

Ning Xi: They’ve got to know at least… I can see the exact location being a secret, but the general area should probably be known. Everybody sort of accepted that Hogwarts is somewhere in the Scottish Highlands or something like that, so that would make more sense to me, I feel.

Andrew and Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: I feel like the parents deserve to know, to your point, but this also gets me thinking. This castle is in one place for hundreds of years. Nobody leaks this info ever, where the school is? Even the students who went? And actually, come to think of it, a lot of the parents would probably know where it is because they went to that school themselves.

Eric: Oh, okay, okay.

Andrew: So that’s how they would know, but how about Hermione’s parents? Hermione’s parents can’t ask around and find out?

Eric: Well, they can’t see the school, so even if they go, they’re not going to be able to… [laughs]

Andrew: Yeah, they seem like a couple who would get an exception, similar to Jacob, where if you do have a witch or wizard there and you’re a Muggle, you deserve to visit.

Eric: The entire four or six months that Hermione was Petrified in year two, her parents didn’t visit because they couldn’t see Hogwarts?

Andrew: I guess that’s proof that they’re not allowed to visit.

[Everyone laughs]

Laura: Can you imagine if they got there and saw that and were like, “This is where you live, honey?”

[Everyone laughs]

Ning Xi: “You live like this?”

Eric: Amazing.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Yeah, “With all these security nightmares, no wonder we’re normally not allowed to visit.” That’s probably why they’re banned, too, because the school is a mess all the time.

Ning Xi: Yeah. Maybe they sign an NDA.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Ning Xi: Hermione has everybody sign, and if you leak the exact location, you get smited. Just, boom.

Laura: That’s so funny.

Andrew:Avada Kedavra!

Laura: I was going to say, automatic AK like a lightning bolt.

[Ning Xi laughs]

Andrew: That’s how they learn the spell.

Eric: An Unbreakable Vow. Well, Camille also points out in our Discord, “Wouldn’t everyone know where Hogwarts is because it’s walking distance of Hogsmeade?”

Andrew and Ning Xi: Oh.

Eric: And that’s actually another great point, because Hogsmeade is not a hidden village. It’s a very, very famous wizarding dwelling, and major city for the wizards. So yeah, you can pretty much easily figure out where Hogwarts is.

Laura: Yeah, it’s the only all-wizarding village in all of England, or all of the UK, right?

Eric: Yeah, and eventually, you’d know, too, because depending on where your kid is born or where you’re living, you get an invite to a certain school. And so eventually, over many decades, people would begin to pinpoint, “Oh, Durmstrang reached out to me, this must be within the scope or the range of where they pull from.” So it just doesn’t hold up very much.

Laura: Yeah, I agree.

Andrew: A common closing point here on MuggleCast: It doesn’t hold up very much.

[Ning Xi laughs]

Eric: Well, although, I like what Hermione does to deduce that it must be up north and it’s because their uniform contains furs. That’s smart. That’s classic deduction, but it’s really good.

Laura: Yeah. And it makes me think of real life prominent secret places, like Camp David here in the United States where the President will go for… I mean, it can sometimes be long weekend trips, but it’s also to entertain dignitaries from other countries. And it’s not technically public knowledge where exactly Camp David is located, but it’s also not hard to figure out the general area where it is, especially if you live in that part of the country. So I’m sure, very similar to Camp David, if you got too close to Durmstrang or Beauxbatons and they genuinely don’t want you there, there have to be security or alert systems in place to prevent you from ultimately finding it. So I don’t know if that means they’re modifying people’s memories if they get too close. I don’t think that’s what the Secret Service does with Camp David.

[Laura and Ning Xi laugh]

Eric: No, that’s the Men in Black.

Laura: Right. Flashy thing.

Eric: The other thing worth noting is that the reason for some of the secrecy presumably is also to have a safe space for wizards to get spells wrong. So you’re learning these spells; it’s a giant mess all the time… not to mention just the Quidditch aspect of it. I had to think really hard not to say Quizzitch. But yeah, so there’s a good reason why they’re secluded, but that doesn’t mean that their location shouldn’t be known.

Ning Xi: Yeah, I agree.

Andrew: Yes. Okay, so Draco comes into the trio’s compartment on the Hogwarts Express and kicks into bully mode. He’s making fun of Ron’s dress robes and hinting at what’s happening at Hogwarts this year, and the trio is a little humiliated that they don’t know what Draco is talking about. Of course, Draco takes advantage of them not knowing about the thing that is happening, so he starts making fun of them. He says that his dad told him what was happening a long while ago, and he can’t believe Ron doesn’t know what’s happening despite Arthur and Percy working at the Ministry. Draco surmises in front of Ron that Arthur isn’t high up enough at the Ministry to know what’s happening…

Eric: Ugh.

Andrew: … and this comment enrages Ron to the point where he slams the train compartment door shut and shatters the glass.

Eric: Girl.

Andrew: Oculus Reparo. [laughs]

Eric: Honestly, the trolley witch would be on you so fast if this were her job.

[Ning Xi laughs]

Andrew: Oh, those nails would…

Eric: Like, “Defacing school property! Raaahhh!”

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Nobody comes out and looks…? I mean, I know it’s a quick Reparo job, but I was just like, “Man, Ron, you really asked for it. You’re going to get the claws now.”

Andrew: Yeah. Well, it made me wonder, should Arthur have told them what was happening at school? I think he could have foreseen this type of situation arising. He knows Draco is a bully, he knows Draco is probably going to come in contact with Ron ahead of the news, and maybe it would have been nice for Arthur to tell him. Does it really matter if he knows ahead of time? I don’t think it does. It seems like a little oversight to me by Arthur.

Laura: I feel like he’s trying to keep the mystery alive for the kids. It reminds me of why parents don’t tell their kids that Santa isn’t real, right?

Eric: Wait, what?

[Everyone laughs]

Ning Xi: What’s Santa?

Laura: But I mean… and I think you could find a number of examples, right, of things that parents like to keep alive for their kids, because it’s mystery. It’s imagination. And this is allowing Hogwarts students to theorize and speculate about what’s coming, so it’s fun, you know? They’re trying to keep the fun alive.

Eric: Yeah, and I think, too, in putting this in context with the previous books, they’ve had really… every student has had two horrific years at Hogwarts lately. So last year, the Dementors are everywhere. No one can get… there’s this escaped murderer; everyone is closely watched. The year before is the Chamber of Secrets being opened, and everyone is in fear and danger and everything. So the adults really seem to think that this year’s Triwizard Cup and the announcement and all the hubbub is going to make up for any recent trauma and recent horrors, and so that’s why it’s a secret, is because they really want to shock the kids into like, “Ah!” and “My God, this is going to be amazing!” and “Wow, I’m so excited.” So that’s why it’s a secret. So I think, keeping that in mind, even though… I mean, I know we’re going to talk about the Triwizard Tournament, whether the tasks are actually that exciting for anyone else to watch or not.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: It’s designed to be this huge thing that makes up for the last couple of years of their lives, and so that’s, I think, why it’s a hidden thing. And also, Arthur can’t predict that Draco is going to be this douche, like, “I’m so important. My dad is important. Your dad mustn’t be important.” No one can predict that. That’s just bad behavior.

Ning Xi: Yeah, I feel like this part is more on Draco than whether the adults should have told them, because there’s always that one guy who’s like, “Oh, I know more than you.” Yeah, whatever.

Andrew: Draco does love being that person, doesn’t he?

Ning Xi: He does.


Odds & Ends


Andrew: All right. Well, let’s look at some Odds & Ends. Eric, you want to kick things off?

Eric: Yeah, we mentioned the dustbins and Mad-Eye Moody, but his paranoia reminds me actually of Horace Slughorn, who just two books from now, at the start of it, is on the run and actively trying to avoid Death Eaters as well, and so it’s a nice little parallel between the real Mad-Eye Moody and Slughorn. Both have made some enemies in Voldemort’s inner circle and are just trying to stay ahead of the game, so I definitely thought of Slughorn when I was hearing about Moody and his dustbins.

Andrew: Laura, we mentioned this at the top of this discussion.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Last week, you worked the word “pistons” into the show. You said we were “firing on all pistons,” and I was like, “Who says that anymore?” And then I’m reading this chapter and the word pistons comes up! Did you know it was coming?

Laura: Yeah, definitely.

[Andrew and Ning Xi laugh]

Andrew: Okay.

Eric: Good answer.

Andrew: The line was, “The pistons hissed loudly and the train began to move.” I was just impressed by the coincidence.

Eric: Why wasn’t an alternate title of Goblet of FireHarry Potter and the Pistons Firing”? I don’t understand.

Laura: “And the Fire of Pistons.”

Andrew: What’d you notice, Laura?

Laura: Yeah, so just noticed a real quick mention of the horseless carriages.

Ning Xi: Not going to remain horseless for long.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: Watch this space.

Ning Xi: Yeah, this time next year.


MVP of the Week


Andrew: Time for MVP of the Week.

[MVP of the Week music plays]

Andrew: I’m going to give it to the concept of the dustbin security system. It sounds cheaper than my $99 a year Amazon Ring security subscription, so maybe I’ll look into setting this up outside my home. Thanks, Mad-Eye.

[Eric and Ning Xi laugh]

Eric: I can just imagine visiting you and it’s not deactivated and all of a sudden… [laughs]

Andrew: Some call him mad? I call him fiscally savvy.

Eric: Frugal Moody, yes.

Andrew: Frugal Moody.

Eric: Here we go…

Andrew: Money-saving Moody. Sorry.

Eric: I like that. Good hyphenated; you worked the hyphen in there. I’m going to give my MVP to Draco only because he knows exactly what to say to get to Ron. How does he do it, I ask? Oh, yeah, that’s right, because he has no moral fiber at all.

Laura: I’m going to give mine to Mad-Eye. He’s the second character in a row that we have in this book whose introduction jumps off the page without him even being present.

Eric: Oooh.

Ning Xi: I’m giving mine to Barty Crouch, Jr…

Eric: Yes!

Ning Xi: … for basically pulling this off. It’s a good plan for real; it’s a sound plan, so credit where credit’s due.

Eric: Heck yeah.

Andrew: Okay, next week we will discuss Chapter 12, “The Triwizard Tournament.” The thing will finally be revealed; I can’t take this anticipation anymore! If you have any feedback about today’s discussion, you can contact us by emailing or sending a voice memo that’s recorded on your phone to MuggleCast@gmail.com, or you can use our phone number, which is 1-920-3-MUGGLE. That’s 1-920-368-4453. Coming up on bonus MuggleCast, available exclusively on Patreon and through Apple Podcasts, we’ll discuss recent news about Hogwarts Legacy. Like I said, it’s the top-selling game of 2023; Warner Bros. just announced that, and they used the opportunity to also tease what might be in store for Harry Potter fans in the year or years ahead, so we’ll talk about that. Listener support is the reason why we are a weekly podcast even 19 years later. Visit Patreon.com/MuggleCast or tap into the show on Apple Podcasts and subscribe to receive ad-free and early access to episodes plus bonus MuggleCast. If you pledge on Patreon, you’ll also receive access to our livestreams, our planning docs, our Facebook group, our Discord, and so much more, like a new physical gift every year. So thank you, everybody who supports us, including you, Ning Xi!

Ning Xi: Yay!


Quizzitch


Andrew: And now it’s time for Quizzitch.

[Quizzitch music plays]

Eric: Last week’s question: What spell does Hermione start learning on the Hogwarts Express? And that means in Harry’s fourth year. The correct answer was the Summoning Charm, or Accio, which she’s going to teach him later in the year, so that’s exciting. Little looking ahead bit. Correct answers were submitted, and we have a mix of regular names and fun names, so here we go: Micah’s new French accent…

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Eric: … Mrs. Figg-smelling tent; Dumbledore’s beard crumb; Pig’s soggy owl pellet; Dobby and Winky’s child; It’s not just DADA, many teachers in the Muggle world now only last a year; Micah’s fiancée… oh, okay.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Quite the dark episode.

Eric: Learning French and getting engaged; hope he texts us about that. Insert smart pun here; Weaselby; Grindylow Hunter; Justice for Winky; BuffDaddy; Katie; Elizabeth K.; and “Nate, I challenge you to a duel. Sincerely, Luke.” Oh God.

Andrew: Oh, this is getting…

[Laura laughs]

Eric: This is out of hand. You know what somebody else submitted? Okay, somebody else’s name here is “To all of the kids word dueling in last week’s Quizzitch round, I will be the Hagrid and say break it up, gents, break it up.”

Laura: Aww.

Eric: So let’s deescalate here. Also, if I can, I’ll tell you what. These names are really fun, but they take up a lot of time to read, and I challenge our listeners to submit – say for the month, the rest of the month – your regular old given names to Quizzitch. I’m asking you with peace and love…

Andrew: [laughs] I was waiting for that.

[Ning Xi laughs]

Eric: … to just submit your regular names to Quizzitch, or they won’t be read. [imitating Ringo Starr] They won’t be read on Quizzitch.

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: Wow.

Eric: From this moment forward with peace and love, please. So we’ve had enough of the names for now. The nicknames.

Laura: Have we?

Ning Xi: Wow, so I got in under the wire because mine was read today.

Eric and Laura: Hey!

[Ning Xi laughs]

Eric: Ning Xi, what was yours? What was yours?

Ning Xi: “Insert smart pun here,” because I couldn’t think of a good one. [laughs]

Eric: Aww, you know what? That was neat.

Laura: That was a good one.

Andrew: Eric did say just for the rest of January, right? So a limited time challenge.

Eric: I guess I should have polled you guys first. But yes, let’s just say for the rest of the month, regular names only.

Laura: [laughs] I’m really curious to see if people adhere.

Eric: Well, if they don’t, it’s going to be a shorter Quizzitch segment of all time.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Eric: Here’s next week’s Quizzitch question: This one’s a bit interesting. Name two of the three items that Filch has added to the list of forbidden objects at the start of Harry’s year four. There are three items that Filch has added; we’re asking you to name two of them. Could be anybody’s game. Submit your Quizzitch answer with a regular name to us on the Quizzitch form, MuggleCast.com/Quizzitch, or click on “Quizzitch” from the main nav.

Andrew: Ning Xi, thanks for joining us today. It was great having you, and again, we really appreciate your support.

Ning Xi: Thanks for having me!

Andrew: You’re so welcome. Thanks for taking off work today for us. Enjoy the rest of your day off.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: I think now it’s not even 11:00 a.m. there, so you’ve got the full day ahead of you. Did you call out sick? Were you like, [coughs] “Too many dustbins last night”?

Ning Xi: I just took like my annual leave. We get 14 a year, so it’s fine.

Andrew: You get a lot more vacation time over there than we do in America.

Ning Xi: Yeah, I mean, I’m already on the low side.

Andrew: Ugh, jealous. 14 days sounds like the extreme high side here in America.

[Andrew and Ning Xi laugh]

Ning Xi: And that’s not inclusive of sick time. That’s a separate 14 days; by law you have to give.

Eric: All right, I’m getting depressed.

Laura: And holidays days, too, right?

Ning Xi: Yeah, public holidays, we get that.

Laura: We’re all coming to Singapore!

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: We’re happy for you. We’re happy for you. And thank you, again, for your support. We really couldn’t do this show without support from listeners like you, and you’ve been such a longtime listener. And you fit right in on today’s episode. Thank you for sitting in the Micah seat. I’m sure if he were here, he would definitely give you a live “Choo-choo.”

[Micah’s “Choo-choo” sound effect plays]

[Ning Xi laughs]

Andrew: Visit MuggleCast.com for transcripts, social media links, our full episode archive, our favorite episodes, and to contact us. That does it for this week’s episode. Thanks, everybody, for listening. I’m Andrew.

Eric: I’m Eric.

Laura: I’m Laura.

Ning Xi: And I’m Ning Xi.

Andrew: Bye, everyone!

Laura and Ning Xi: Bye.

Transcript #640

 

MuggleCast 640 Transcript

 

Transcript for MuggleCast Episode #640, Rita Skeeter: A Voice For Potter Podcasters (GOF Chapter 10, Mayhem at the Ministry)


Show Intro


[Show music plays]

Andrew Sims: Welcome to MuggleCast, your weekly ride into the wizarding world fandom. I’m Andrew.

Eric Scull: I’m Eric.

Micah Tannenbaum: I’m Micah.

Laura Tee: And I’m Laura.

Andrew: Happy New Year to all of our listeners. It’s our first episode of 2024. We’re very excited to be back after a couple of weeks off, and even more exciting, we are entering our 19th year of Harry Potter podcasting.

Eric: Wow.

Andrew: 19 years later. So our birthday will be in August; we’ll have to do something special since, of course, the epilogue is set 19 years after the events of Deathly Hallows.

Micah: Choo-choo.

Andrew: Can’t believe it. [laughs]

Laura: I know, I know, it’s wild. And none of us have children yet, at least that I know of…

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: … so I think the one thing that we can do to really solidify our legacy is when the first MuggleCast baby comes along, should that ever happen, it cannot have a cringy terrible name like the ones that we saw in the epilogue. Let’s all agree to that right now.

Eric: I was going to say, yeah, come July or August, we should all don really, really aged makeup. Prosthetic makeup.

Laura: [laughs] Oh, no.

Andrew: Ooh, yeah.

[Micah laughs]

Eric: And go meet in London and just look really, really old. No, we’ve aged far better than those characters did.

Andrew: Yes. A lot of people might not know, they originally shot the epilogue scene with this really bad makeup. Draco looks awful; it looks like he was 100. He didn’t look like he only aged 19 years.

Micah: He looked worse than Nicolas Flamel.

Andrew: [laughs] They shot the scene, too, at the real King’s Cross, which was very nice, but then everybody looked so bad – I think Ron looked like he was balding – that they decided to reshoot it. They did a better job with aging the characters up. Unfortunately, though, they did not film again at King’s Cross, so we didn’t get that authenticity. But yes, I think we should all look as bad for our big 19th birthday episode this August.

Laura: No, I think that we should provide a lesson to the fandom that hey, actually, 19 years later – because we’re all about the same age that the trio would have been in the epilogue – you’ll look a lot better than what was depicted in the movie. [laughs]

Eric: That’s right.

Andrew: Give everybody hope. Happy 19 years, sorta kinda. And we’re going to be watching our words carefully this week, lest Rita Skeeter twist any statements from this week’s episode to create some hot goss for the Daily Prophet. Today we’re discussing Chapter 10 of Goblet of Fire, “Mayhem at the Ministry.” But first, a couple of announcements. We touched on this I think at the end of last year: Bonus MuggleCast installments are coming to our paid Apple Podcasts subscription starting later this month. For just $4.99 a month, you can sign up for MuggleCast Gold! That’s a new announcement. We’re calling this MuggleCast Gold.

Eric: Andrew, are we sure we want to do this, given the success of other Harry Potter-related things branded gold?

Andrew: You’re referring to the hit subscription service Wizarding World Gold? [laughs]

Eric: Yes. Are we sure that this is an okay name?

Andrew: We’re going to do the gold thing the right way. And ours is like, half the price; I think theirs was $90 or $99, $79…

Eric: Oh, goodness.

Andrew: Ours is definitely cheaper than that. $4.99 a month, you can sign up for MuggleCast Gold and you’ll receive ad-free early access to our main show plus two new bonus MuggleCast installments every month, in which we discuss the latest wizarding world news, our favorite headcanons, we do these introspective looks back at book releases and original titles that JKR was considering, and so much more. We do a lot of really fun one-off discussions. These have been previously available on Patreon, but now they’re also available on Apple Podcasts.

Eric: Yeah, I was going to shout out, too, that some of those bonuses made their way to the main feed as well, as a good sample over the holiday break.

Andrew and Micah: Yeah.

Micah: And I know I’ve said it before on the show, Andrew, but I really do think that this is a good deal.

Andrew: Even at $4.99!

Micah: At $4.99, and here’s why: You’re getting the show, right? And then you’re getting two additional pieces of content. It’s ad-free. What more could you…? You’re paying less than a dollar…

Andrew: You can get it early, too, and you do.

Micah: There you go. And if you think about it, everybody does this probably at least once a week, right? What do you do? You go to Starbucks, or you go to your favorite coffee spot in the morning. How much does your coffee cost?

Eric: More than $5!

Micah: More than $5. So you can get ad-free early MuggleCast, four episodes a month, two bonus MuggleCasts a month.

Andrew: It’s a good deal.

Micah: It’s a very good deal.

Laura: And brew your coffee at home.

Eric: Also, if you walk into the gift shop of Harry Potter and the Cursed Child, wherever it may be playing, and you tell them that you’re a member of MuggleCast Gold, I bet they’ll think you’re pretty cool.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Micah: Maybe they’ll give you a pin.

Andrew: We’ll give them a little badge. [laughs]

Eric: They might have a pin leftover. Ask them if they have any pins for being a Gold member; don’t specify which Gold, and maybe you’ll be in luck.

Andrew: Oh yeah, I missed that. That was a good idea that they had. Well, anyway, we really appreciate everybody’s support. We couldn’t do the show without you, so that’s why we have set up the subscription programs, because we need your support in order to run this show. Speaking of supporting the show, don’t forget that the MuggleCast overstock store is open. And we had it closed over the holidays; it’s open again. This is where you can buy MuggleCast merch and help support the show, and we have an update: It’s very cold in the northern hemisphere, so MuggleCast is helping you out this winter with the MuggleCast Beanie and Socks Comfy Cozy Combo Pack. So purchase this new combo set for $25; it’s cheaper than buying the socks and beanie separate, and you’ll be warm on both ends of your Muggle body for winter. I was on a cross country road trip over our break; I went through the Rocky Mountains. That beanie was comfortable and kept my head warm as we were cruising at high altitudes and spending a little time outside doing some stretching and all that. So check out the Comfy Cozy Pack, $25. Normally these two items separately would be $35; if you buy the combo pack, they are together for $25, just in time for winter. By the way, Sam, one of our listeners, said of the socks: “These are a unique gift for the MuggleCast fangirly. Well-made socks with bright and bold colors.” Ellie said the socks were “So cute, comfy, and well-made.” And then on the album art, which is also in our overstock store, JenPen said, “Beautiful album art and happy for the autographs.” So we’ve been getting some reviews of the products, which has been fun to read.

Eric: I wonder if she got Dobby or Hedwig as well as the four of us.

[Micah laughs]

Andrew: Some album art comes with additional signatures, yeah, from characters.

[Eric laughs]

Micah: Yeah, what do they call this? Collector’s, right? They’re even more special than the ones just signed by the four of us.

Andrew: You’ll find a link in the show notes to the overstock store. It’s also MuggleMillennial.etsy.com, if you just want to type in the URL directly.


Chapter by Chapter: Seven-Word Summary


Andrew: So let’s get to Chapter by Chapter, and this week we’re discussing Goblet of Fire Chapter 10, “Mayhem at the Ministry.” And for the first time this year, let’s do our Seven-Word Summary.

[Seven-Word Summary music plays]

Andrew: Arthur…

Eric: … laments…

Micah: … over…

Laura: … a…

Andrew: … problematic…

Eric: … news…

Micah: … cycle.

Laura: Hey!

Andrew: That was perfect.

Laura: Wonderful job, y’all.

Andrew: No notes.

Laura: We’re firing on all pistons at the start of 2024. I just want that on the record.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: All pistons? What is this, 1940?

[Seven-Word Summary music ends]

Laura: Yes, I’m going to start speaking with a transatlantic accent.

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: I can’t actually do that, so I won’t.


Chapter by Chapter: Main Discussion


Laura: So getting right into this chapter, it picks up where we left off. Curiously, I noted at the start of this chapter, everyone seems like they stayed overnight. I think I made the assumption at the end of the last chapter that maybe Arthur was trying to keep the kids close and not travel at night, but perhaps some other people left. No, apparently nobody left. When they are leaving the following morning, it is a madhouse trying to get a Portkey. And I thought that it was so odd that nobody seemed to nope out the night before, like… terror attack by wizard Klansmen, and everybody was like, “Eh, it’s fine. We’ll just sleep here and then we’ll go home tomorrow.” What?

Eric: Why should they let that ruin their good time?

[Laura laughs]

Micah: It would seem in situations such as this that it would have made sense to evacuate following the attack. The space is unsafe, as they like to say. It’s compromised.

Laura: Yeah. And any large event should have evacuation plans; I feel like that’s pretty standard protocol. It seems like the Ministry was pretty prepared for tons of logistics around the travel and the arrival of wizards from all over the world. It does seem shocking that there wasn’t any kind of emergency contingency.

Andrew: Maybe they didn’t want to let anybody out because they didn’t want the culprit or culprits to escape. That’s standard procedure, too, in certain situations.

Laura: Yeah, but everybody can Apparate, is the thing. [laughs]

Eric: Well, I think anyone who would likely be the culprit would potentially be capable of Apparating. It is weird that even some of the Weasleys who can Apparate didn’t at least go home to tell Molly everything was fine, because that becomes an issue in the morning as well. They could have, I guess, maybe planned that a little bit better, and yeah, why did they stay? Why do they consent to submit to being in this long line for a Portkey?

Laura: For the plot.

Micah: Andrew, I think this sounds like a security nightmare.

[“It’s starting to sound like a security nightmare!” sound effect plays with sirens]

Eric: Heck yeah.

Andrew: Well, it’s something for them to work on for the next Quidditch World Cup.

Eric: [laughs] That’s for sure.

Laura: Yeah, indeed. Well, on their way to wait in the very lengthy Portkey line, Arthur and the family actually pass Mr. Roberts, the Muggle that we chatted about last chapter, who had himself and his entire family completely traumatized by the Death Eaters. And Mr. Roberts has yet again had his memory wiped to spare him the recollections of what happened to his family the prior night. It’s August, which is notable here. It’s August, but he wishes everyone a Happy Christmas as they walk by. And it’s noted here, Arthur says, “Sometimes when a person’s memory is modified, they’ll be a bit disoriented for a while.” And I was reading this and I was like, “Ya think?”

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Laura: You think the man’s going to be disoriented? Y’all have been wiping his memory, you said two chapters ago, about ten times a day for two weeks, because that’s how long the campsite has been open. You’ve been wiping this guy’s memory… you’ve wiped it 140 times.

Eric: Oh my God.

Laura: There is no way this man does not have neurological damage. None whatsoever.

Andrew: Yeah, it’s really sad.

Laura: So I wanted to ask you all, actually, in this case – and I think it can be kind of a controversial question – was wiping the Roberts family’s memories the right thing to do here with this?

Andrew: Like this particular time or just…? [laughs]

Laura: Yeah, this particular time.

Andrew: Well, what’s one more time?

[Micah laughs]

Laura: To remove the trauma of what happened to them, was it the right thing to do?

Eric: I don’t think they had much of a choice. In order to explain what happened to them, in order to make sense of it to them, they would have to break the Statute of Secrecy, for starters, to explain how they were lifted up basically telekinetically, but magically, and tortured. So they don’t have much of a choice.

Micah: What really surprises me, though, is the fact that Mr. Roberts is still there “working.”

Andrew and Laura: Yeah.

Micah: You would think that his entire family, himself included, would have been taken to St. Mungo’s for evaluation, because presumably, they’re still going to have to continue to wipe his memory as he’s allowing all of these people to exit his campsite. It’s not like it stops at 140; there’s probably a few other memory wipes that are going to have to go on. But I think for the big trauma, to Eric’s point, I don’t think you can not wipe his memory, right? The problem is they’ve wiped it so many other times before on so many inconsequential things, so it just feels like they’re taking as much advantage of him as the Death Eaters did, in a way.

Eric: Wow. Wow.

Andrew and Laura: Yeah.

Laura: 100%. And the reason I wanted to bring this up… I think we alluded to it a little bit on our last episode, but trauma doesn’t just live in the mind, it lives in the body, right? So even if something traumatic happens and you just don’t remember it for whatever reason, your body can very well remember it. So who knows what the Roberts family is going to go through over the course of the next several years as a result of this trauma? Erasing their memories doesn’t actually erase what happened to them, and it feels like a huge disservice that at the very least, there doesn’t seem to have been any attempt to do welfare checks on the Robertses. Like, we never hear about them again and we never hear about any sort of Ministry efforts to do something like this. What about the Pensieve? Eric, you had an interesting point here.

Eric: Yeah, it’s interesting because we’re right in the midway point of the series, and there will be these points inevitably that we bring up of like, “Oh, something from the later books could have helped here.” Well, this is something that something from this book might have been able to help with. Regarding the Pensieve, the way that I believe Dumbledore describes it is that he uses the Pensieve to put memories, truly put memories, out of his mind, and it helps him think better because a man like Dumbledore has got a ton of things to focus on and be rattling around in his brain all the time.

Andrew: [imitating Dumbledore] “I’m a busy man.”

[Laura laughs]

Eric: Yeah. Presumably, then, when you put a memory in a Pensieve, you actually don’t have that anymore. And would there have been – potentially, is my question – the possibility to store the memory of last night for the Roberts family in…? Basically just to extract it. You don’t even need a Pensieve; just extract that memory and say, “Goodbye.”

Micah: Let it float away.

Andrew: [laughs] Blow it away like a dandelion. [makes air blowing sound]

Eric: Yeah. Is that something that a wizard could do to a Muggle? Or is it a little bit more complicated? Because then, if that’s possible, why are they even bothering with memory replacement, which is essentially… what a Memory Charm does is say “Nothing bad happened,” instead of “Something bad happened.” Why aren’t they using a Pensieve? Or using actual memory extraction stuff?

Andrew: Well, first of all, it’s presumably less abusive to use a Pensieve over and over again, because we see wizards do it. And as far as I can remember, there’s no downsides. There’s no impact.

Micah: Really? Dumbledore looks constipated when he’s done it.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Micah: Or at least that was the Michael Gambon expression.

Eric: Side effects may include constipation, forgetfulness…

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: See if Dulcolax is right for you.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: I do wonder if there’s some sort of elitism going on here amongst Ministry officials in determining when’s the right time to use a Pensieve for Muggles versus just Obliviate-ing their memories, because the Pensieve being able to extract a memory and still hold on to it… you can blow it away like a dandelion, but you can also just put it in the Pensieve. To be able to do that seems very special, and I can almost imagine officials at the Ministry being like, “You know what, we don’t use that with Muggles because we’re going to be storing those memories. This is a sacred privilege that we have, and we’re not just going to let anybody have it.” So that’s the only excuse I could come up with.

Eric: Yeah, they also might, though… the magic of the Pensieve as we’re introduced to later in this very book is that you can see those memories from different angles, and so they could actually use the Roberts family’s memories as additional evidence, essentially. They could take a look at who’s parading them through the streets; they could see if they could identify some of the Death Eaters that came in the closest contact with the Roberts family. It actually seems like a huge potential in trying to get the memories from the Muggles, so…

Micah: Solving the crime.

Eric: Yeah, yeah, basically get a detective on it.

Micah: Yeah. And Laura, I really like the fact that you brought up the point from the last episode about trauma not being what happens to you, but what happens inside of you as a result of what happens to you. And Meg pointed this out, actually, Eric: Yes, I was quoting Dr. Gabor Maté. I’m not sure if folks are familiar with him, but if they aren’t, they should be because he’s probably one of the best thinkers of our time for sure, and an expert on trauma. But in the case of the Robertses, yeah, I mean, because if trauma was what just happened to them, then they wouldn’t be able to go back and heal it, because it would just be the event and the event happened and there’s nothing you can do about the event, but presumably, they can heal what’s happening inside of them. But if they can’t recall why they’re feeling that way, I think that’s a major, major issue, and let’s face it, I know I mentioned this before, but the Ministry is sort of to blame here to start with for putting Mr. Roberts in this situation, putting his family in this situation to begin with. They kind of served him up on a platter to the Death Eaters.

Laura: Yeah, and I think that goes to, Andrew, the point you just made a couple minutes ago about there being this level of elitism and superiority, because we see throughout this series, even some of the characters who are the most well-intentioned good people, characters we genuinely like, kind of look down their nose at Muggles and see them as being less than, and this is how it manifests, right? This is the real world impact of that attitude.

Andrew: Right.

Eric: You nailed that on the head there, Laura. Muggles are not seen as people, and so they aren’t given the kind of treatment… to Andrew’s point as well, elitism, I think that’s exactly it, too, as well. It’s like, “A Muggle, we’ll just give them a Memory Charm two dozen times,” instead of actually using something a little bit more specialized.

Laura: Well, Eric, you mentioned that the Pensieve is an answer that exists in this book that could have been helpful here, but for something that comes along later in the series that could have been helpful here, for Molly specifically, is Patronus messaging. We find out as soon as Mr. Weasley, Harry, Ron, Hermione, et al. get home that Mrs. Weasley has been frantically worrying. She can’t find any evidence of them being alive or dead; she’s freaking out. And as I was reading this, I was like, “Couldn’t they send messages through their Patronuses?” And then I was like, “Oh, wait, that’s later.”

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Laura: That’s one of those inventions that comes later in the series.

Eric: I think it’s the very next book, so it’s within the next three years of the writing process that we learn about it. And I’m pretty sure the author gave an interview within the next year of this book coming out saying that certain members had something that was the equivalent of the wizarding world’s instant messaging, but it was not yet invented here, clearly, because Arthur surely would have used it to set Molly at ease. And the other aspect of this is it would have been a really cool ring composition moment, because the final book has obviously Kingsley Shacklebolt’s Patronus message showing up at the Burrow, and so we would have at least heard about Arthur sending one in Books 4 and 7.

Andrew: I’m glad we’re bringing this up, though, because it is an interesting look behind the scenes of the development of the series overall. Clearly, there was a ton developed even within Book 1; the world-building was fantastic. But still, there were some things that weren’t invented until later chapters or books, so I think this is a really fun thing for us to point out from time to time.

Eric: Yeah, I mean, in this chapter, “Mayhem at the Ministry,” Molly has been terrified all night and for most of the morning. They’re slowly traipsing back to the Burrow, and as soon as she sees them, as soon as she knows evidence that they’re okay, she freaks out and goes out to meet them.

Andrew: I wonder when she did find out exactly that something went awry…

Micah: I was thinking that too.

Andrew: … because she is clutching – I was just looking it up – the Daily Prophet when they come in. So I would presume maybe the following morning, she saw it through the paper and then got very concerned, because I was also wondering like, maybe Molly should have went to investigate herself.

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Micah: Lazy.

Andrew: Just like, at a distance.

Laura: No, that’s so interesting. I think the way I read it, I assumed that she had heard about it the evening before and was freaking out all night, but maybe not. Somebody fact check.

Eric: We know that she has a wireless; she has a radio that she listens to the programs on, at least Celestina Warbeck’s Witching Hour.

Andrew: [laughs] Celestina comes on: “Attack at the Quidditch World Cup!”

Eric: No, that’s what I’m saying. How about “We interrupt this broadcast to let you know that something horrible has happened to potentially your loved ones”? That would absolutely make the cut.

Laura: Yeah. And actually, I want to call out HufflepuffsBadger in our Discord, pointing out that Molly can check the clock. We are reminded of the Weasleys’ very special clock in this chapter; that’s actually one of our odds and ends that we’re going to chat about a little bit later. But yeah, presumably, all of her children and her husband’s hands would have been pointing to “Mortal peril.”

Andrew: [laughs] Sleep well.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: For some period, yeah, last night.

Andrew: You know, it’s actually even worse to hear about it through the clock, because then she’s wondering, “Why are they in mortal peril?”

Laura: “What’s happening?” [laughs]

Micah: And the question would be, when it first clicks over to “Mortal peril,” is there an alarm of some sort that goes off where she would be notified? Because it’s not like you’re going to work or Hogwarts or something like that; it’s pretty serious stuff.

Eric: It makes the sound effect of our foreshadow alert; both are equally pressing sounds.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: I don’t know if I would want this clock. It’s almost like having access to too many people in the Find My app on iPhone.

Eric: Oh my God.

Andrew: You start wondering why they’re in certain places if you get bored and start looking at people. [laughs]

Micah: It’s the early version of BeReal.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: That’s true.

Laura: Yeah, oh my God. And then Molly, starting at Book 5, she sends Patronus instant messages to be like, “Oh, I see that you’re in mortal peril.” [laughs] “What’s going on?”

Andrew: “What’s going on? I’m 12 drinks in at the Hog’s Head, Mom. I’m sorry.”

Laura: [laughs] That could be mortal peril.

Micah: And I just want to bring up, Eric, what you said earlier, which I think is worth reemphasizing, that not one Weasley went home. I mean, they have a pretty big contingent at the Quidditch World Cup, and Percy, Bill, and Charlie can all Apparate by themselves.

Eric: Right.

Micah: Presumably, Bill and Charlie can Apparate long distances without any issue. Percy might be a little bit too early on in his training…

Eric: Sure.

Micah: … but Bill or Charlie could have gone home and made sure Molly was not freaking out.

Eric: That “We’re okay,” yeah, yeah.

Micah: So shame on them. Shame on them. Bad kids.

Laura: Well, we’re going to chat about Rita Skeeter and journalism here in a moment, but just to kind of tie a bow on this aftermath theme of this chapter, towards the end of the chapter Harry finally does tell Ron and Hermione about his scar hurting and his dream from Chapter 1. So how did we take Ron’s and Hermione’s reactions to that? It seems like they reacted just in the way that Harry predicted they would.

Eric: I liked reading that part of it where Harry is… because at the beginning of the book, it opens up and says, “Well, what would Ron say? What would Hermione say?”

[Laura laughs]

Eric: Harry replays the whole thing, and to see that actually play out is satisfying. It’s like, “Oh, Harry knows his friends.” But what I liked in particular was Jim Dale’s reading of Harry asking Molly, “Have we gotten anything from Hedwig?” and she says “Hedwig? No.” And then a moment later, Harry is like, “Uh, Ron, okay if we put something in your room?”

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: And Ron is like, “Uh, yeah, yeah, let’s go up there. Hermione, do you want to come too?” It’s just so not subtle that something has occurred that they need to discuss. But it’s funny.

Laura: Yeah, I think Molly is probably too distraught and exhausted at this point to really pick up on it. I think normally she would. Think about how quick she is to get on the kids anytime they’re doing something that she thinks they shouldn’t be doing.

Micah: Hermione is situationally aware in this chapter. I mean, she is a lot throughout the series, but it really does come through in this chapter, because she’s also the one who makes Mrs. Weasley a strong cup of tea after they all arrive home, and I don’t know that necessarily that’s something a 14-year-old would look to do, right?

Andrew: No, no.

Micah: She’s being a bit of a caretaker. And that’s how she’s behaving at the end of this chapter, too, with Harry saying, “Oh, maybe we should all go to bed, because it’s been a long night.”

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: But I also understood Harry’s perspective here being like, “No, I do want to play Quidditch, actually,” because he just wants to blow off some steam. Sometimes you want to go for a run after a hard day, or you want to hit the gym and pump some iron after a hard day.

Micah: Bro.

Andrew: People use that as a way to get out any pent-up energy or anger and then they feel good after.

Eric: Oh, boys.

Andrew: Otherwise maybe in Harry’s situation he’d be staying up all night, worrying about the events of the past 24 hours. He needed to let out some steam.

Eric: Yeah, yeah, that’s fair.

Laura: That’s probably right.

Eric: Well, I just appreciate Hermione for her emotional intelligence, to Micah’s point, too, and it’s not a bad suggestion to sleep; it’s just that it’s not the right suggestion for Harry in that moment. And actually, discussing this with Meg, she had a really good point, which was that Ron suggesting Harry play Quidditch to ease his tension, which is what works, showcases how well Ron knows Harry, and may be a foreshadowing of Harry being about to lose Ron, unfortunately. Because when Harry only has Hermione to regulate his mood and as a friend later in this book when Harry and Ron have their falling-out, Harry finds it insufficient. They go to the library a lot more, and Harry begins to miss Ron. Ron knows him much better, I think, in moments of need than Hermione does, unfortunately. Ron knows best in this moment.

Laura: That’s a great point. So looking towards the other half of this discussion, we’re really going to focus on Rita Skeeter, unethical journalism, and Ministry blunders.

[Eric laughs]

Laura: So in the wake of terror at the Quidditch World Cup, this chapter introduces us to the wizarding world equivalent of a gossip journalist named Rita Skeeter. We are going to recap a little bit on what we know about Rita as people who’ve read the entire series, because I think it’ll really help us better analyze her contributions to the book as we’re reading through. So just a reminder that Rita’s ability to acquire information is aided very significantly by her being an unregistered Animagus. She is a beetle. This is perfect setup because we just read all about unregistered Animagi in Prisoner of Azkaban, so this one is kind of hiding in plain sight, literally, several times throughout this story. So I thought that we could keep a Rita count, a beetle count, throughout the book…

Andrew: Oh boy.

Laura: … of all the times that she’s spying or turning up as a beetle. I can only think of maybe one or two examples that I remember, so I’m pretty excited to come across the others because I know there are a few.

Andrew: Yeah, that’s a fun idea. One thing that I noticed when reading this area, Arthur uses the word “ferreting” when talking about Rita, and I’m wondering if the use of that word by the author was almost meant as foreshadowing the Animagus revelation about Rita. The quote from Arthur is, “Rita Skeeter’s been ferreting around all week, looking for more Ministry mess-ups to report.” I just thought it was interesting because of what we later learn about her. I know ferreting is a sort of common word or phrase, but…

Laura: And it feels very British, too, to say, “Oh, she was ferreting around,” but I think you could do a double reading of it.

Andrew: I’m always looking out for foreshadowing in these books.

Micah: I kind of read it as his commentary on the type of reporter she is and the type of news that she likes to write about, and that’s why he used “ferreting” in this case.

Eric: Yeah. I mean, there’s a skill level attached to “ferret,” being able to sneak in and out and retrieve something, too, so it’s not not necessarily a compliment, in some ways.

Laura: Yeah. I mean, to your point, there is skill there. We maybe don’t like the skill, but if you’re being objective about it, it is there.

Eric: I mean, Rita is super cunning.

Laura: Yeah, well, given that we will find out towards the end of the book that she is this unregistered Animagus, she’s a beetle, I thought we could talk a little bit about what beetles represent socially, historically, and I wanted to start with certain biblical translations. So I’ll just preface this by saying that my biblical knowledge is somewhat limited; I was not raised in that context, so I’m interested to hear from people who maybe were, whether that’s y’all or whether that’s listeners. But certain translations have historically referred to the plagues in the Book of Exodus as plagues of a “grievous beetle” instead of locusts. I think that kind of interpretation or translation is to be expected of something as old as a religious text, but there are other significant cultural examples of what beetles represent. I think what’s really interesting is the role they play environmentally; they actually play a really important role preserving our planet by recycling filth, a.k.a. poop, to keep the Earth clean.

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Eric: We don’t have a real world poop mountain, but we do absolutely have real world beetles performing in the…

Micah: They’re dung beetles.

Andrew: Nor do we have Evanesco.

Eric and Laura: Yep.

Laura: They’re just out there rolling that poop around. [laughs]

Micah: Dung beetles: very hard to catch in Animal Crossing, by the way.

Eric: Oh.

Micah: Right, Andrew?

Andrew: Oh, yeah.

Micah: They’re not easy.

Laura: Probably in real life, too, to be honest.

Andrew: But you’re also bringing this up about recycling filth, Laura, because of her being a gossip columnist.

Laura: Right, exactly. And listen, I’m going to get to this point here in a couple of minutes, but there can be some value to that, depending on timing and whatnot. Some cultures view beetles as being signs of good fortune and rebirth, right? Because again, they’re recycling the filth of the world and making it into something positive. Others view them as unclean, probably for the same reason – they’re just thinking about the poop differently – and even as symbols of evil or bad luck, so I think these are all things that we can connect to Rita in various ways. So I would like us to just keep this in the back of our mind as we read through this book and as we get to know her a little more. We’re also going to find out that she was a journalist during the first wizarding war, and we’ll see her later in the book in the Pensieve sequence where that reveal about Barty Crouch, Jr. being a Death Eater is made. She’s written a couple of biographies; she wrote one about former headmaster Armando Dippet, titled Armando Dippet: Master or Moron? And of course, as we all know, she later went on to write The Life and Lies of Albus Dumbledore.

Eric: She’s just doing the headmasters. She’s just biographing… she’s the very well-respected lead biographer for Hogwarts headmasters, apparently.

Andrew: She’s the Walter Isaacson of the wizarding world.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: He wrote about Steve Jobs, Elon Musk, many others.

Laura: Right.

Eric: There you go.

Laura: I mean, I’ll be fair, I did not read either of those books. Andrew, were they gossipy?

Andrew: No, no, no.

Laura: Or were they actual legitimate works of nonfiction literature?

Andrew: I did not read the Elon one. I do not want to read the Elon one.

Laura: Okay.

Andrew: I did read the Steve Jobs one. It was good. Actually, speaking about gossipy type of info, I’ve been hearing about the Elon one, is there are a bunch of inaccuracies in it, apparently, so maybe he is kind of like Rita. [laughs]

Laura: Well, what do we think of…? And this is obviously very high level, but when we’re talking about…

Andrew: There it is; Micah found it in his library. Sorry, the Steve Jobs.

Laura: [laughs] Micah’s library has everything in it.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: “Micah’s Magic Library” is the series that I want to see coming to HBO Max.

Laura: Aw, please do.

Micah: Patreon.

Andrew: For our listeners, he just showed off the Steve Jobs one on his camera.

Laura: [laughs] But what do we think of this representation of Rita as a beetle? And these are obviously high level examples of what beetles can represent.

Andrew: Well, I love the examples that you brought up, the recycling filth one in particular, just regurgitating but also bending the truth, which we see Rita do quite a bit. But I also think about how I feel about beetles: They’re ugly, they’re hard-looking… not to say Rita is ugly. [laughs] But they just put you off. They’re hard-looking, mean-looking insects, and I think these are a couple other reasons why her Animagus may have been a beetle.

Laura: I don’t think they’re ugly.

Andrew: [laughs] And I don’t think Rita is ugly; she’s a good-looking lady, for the record.

Laura: I know you’re not. I know you’re not saying that. Also, just shout-out to Miranda Richardson, who was the perfect casting in this role.

Micah: She was awesome.

Eric: Amazing.

Andrew: She was, yeah.

Micah: I was looking in the Discord and LegalizeGillyweed mentioned that her personal headcanon is that Rita’s Animagus is a beetle as a nod to the Beatles’ “Lovely Rita.” Rita Skeeter, meter maid.

Laura: Oh!

Andrew: Oh, interesting.

Eric: That’s fun! [sings] “Lovely Rita, meter maid.”

Laura: I love that.

Micah: We can probably get an orchestral version of that so you don’t get copyright infringement, if we want to use that as the sound effect. I’ll look it up for you, Andrew. Don’t worry.

Eric: For the beetle catch, yeah. You know, I’ll just say I think beetles are actually really pretty. We had Japanese beetles, I think, in our backyard, and their colors just always blew me away.

Andrew: Okay, guys.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: And did you know they use…? It’s actually been scientifically proven that dung beetles use the stars to navigate.

Laura: That’s cool.

Micah: Wow.

Andrew: All right, but they’re still really scary.

Eric: It’s insane. It’s insane. The meaning that I always took away from Harry Potter was this idea that you would call a journalist an insect. She waddles around in the filth, and she’s an insect because she’s so beneath us, or she’s not deserving of full human respect or whatever, whatever, whatever. That’s what I always thought it meant, and not anything deeper. But it’s always satisfying to go into this kind of stuff because the more you think about it, too, recycling information and this other stuff is really compelling, I must admit.

Micah: It’s obvious why she chooses it, because it also allows her to just get into places and situations that anybody else otherwise wouldn’t have the ability to. But I’m also interested from the standpoint of, the beetle can be killed very easily, and especially thinking about how common it is for people to swat bugs, was she never concerned that somebody wasn’t just not going to be like, “Boom,” and Rita’s gone?

Andrew: [laughs] Or capture her in a glass jar?

Micah: Well, that’s coming later.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: Well, I bet she’s constantly worried about that after the events of this book.

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: Yeah, it’s a good thought.

Micah: But if you’re Sirius, you’re a dog, right? If you’re James, you’re a stag. You’re intimidating.

Andrew: Well, but if you’re small, you’re easy to…

Micah: Conceal.

Andrew: … it’s easy to sneak around, whereas if you’re a dog, it’s not easy to sneak around.

Micah: Yeah, I know. But what if Trevor ate her?

Andrew: Yeah, well, I guess you’ve got to keep your distance from any foes.

Micah: I guess that’s part of the… yeah, you’ve got to be smart.

Andrew: There’s no perfect solution, I suppose, unless you’re just invisible.

Laura: And I think she’s being portrayed as the type of journalist who will do anything for the story, right? And that extends to this, to potentially compromising her own safety, which a lot of journalists in the real world do all the time, journalists that are way better than Rita. But speaking of Rita, she is creating some work headaches for Arthur and Percy in the days following the Quidditch World Cup, so they’re both having to put in long hours at work because of her sensationalist reporting about the terroristic events of the Quidditch World Cup. And it is noted fairly early on in discussions of Rita Skeeter… I think it’s Bill who says, “Rita Skeeter never makes anyone look good,” so that’s the first I think real introduction that we get to her as a character, is this depiction of her being just the kind of journalist that is never going to print anything nice about anybody.

Eric: I mean, in addition to her putting herself in danger by being a beetle and maybe being stepped on – we were just talking about – she’s also not making any friends this way. Her chosen style of journalism does put her, I think, at further risk, because she really doesn’t have anything nice to say. And this is sensationalized journalism; Rita obviously represents a much larger but very real concept, and something that we… in Britain, the tabloid situation for many decades has been way out of hand, even more so than it has been in other places of the world, so a sensationalizing journalist who’s unafraid to make things entirely up – has no ethics – is a very important character, I guess, to showcase in this as this politicking is going on.

Micah: I’m glad you said that, though, because this also continues to world build for us, and we’ve talked about that a lot at the start of this book. And of course, we’ve heard of the Daily Prophet before, but now we’re introduced to an actual “journalist” in Rita Skeeter, and we start to see how the media plays a role within the wizarding world through her as a character and through comments like Bill makes about her, right? How the media is perceived, how certain journalists are perceived; and I know we’re going to talk a little bit more about that later, but just wanted to bring that up. And Laura, I was thinking about this because I know we often talk about work, but Arthur pulls one of those situations where the next day he’s like, “I gotta go to work, I gotta go to work,” and Molly is saying to him, “No, Honey, relax. Take the day… you were in a very stressful situation.” And we’ve all been there where we’re like, “No, gotta go. I gotta go to work.” And Percy, of course, too.

Laura: Well, especially if you feel like you’re the one who messed up, which Arthur does. Whether there’s any merit to him feeling that way is another conversation…

Eric: Sure.

Laura: … but he is the unnamed Ministry official who gives Rita a quote that is then used in this article that’s really just intended to slander the Ministry and point out, I think, some of the same criticisms that we’ve had of them over the course of this event, so Arthur feels responsible.

Andrew: And he enjoys his job, right? So this is a unique opportunity for him. I know it’s hard, I know it sucks, I know it’s stressing him out, but he also feels like “This is my time to shine,” in a way. Like, “I’m going to get involved in this situation and help resolve it.”

Micah: But it’s not his department. He should stay in his lane.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: It is kind of, though, company culture, right? When you feel that loyalty to the system, essentially.

Micah: Exactly.

Andrew: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Eric: And that is Arthur. He’s a company man.

Andrew: Clearly a workaholic if he wants to keep going in. [laughs]

Eric: Well, there’s that as well. But yeah, he feels personally responsible, and even if he weren’t like, not mentioned by name but quoted anyway in a Prophet article, it is this culture of “All hands on deck” at the Ministry because they need as many people as they can get to run interference, basically, now that the journalism aspect is becoming a problem.

Laura: Yeah. And Rita really adds fuel to the fire by noting that several bodies were removed from the woods after the Dark Mark was cast. And we didn’t see anything in the last chapter to substantiate those claims at all, so this is just Rita writing what she thinks it is people want to read, and she goes into that philosophy a little later in the book when we meet her.

Eric: This is where she crosses the line, to me. This is just straight up fake news. She knows there’s no bodies, but posting “Oh, the rumors of the bodies…” It’s actually irresponsible. It’s sensationalist journalism.

Micah: Clickbait.

Eric: It’s clickbait, but the story is sensational without her making this stuff up, and so for me, where she fails the integrity test is stoking those fears of bodies and starting just straight up lying. I’m sorry; there’s exaggeration and there’s lying. The bodies coming out of the woods? That’s a lie.

Laura: Well, and she’s shielding herself too. It’s the same thing that you see in gossip magazines; you’ll see these allusions to rumors, or friends of X person have said, and it’s like, this isn’t a real thing. This is just something that you’re printing to sell copies, but you can’t state it as a fact, so you’re going to say it’s a rumor.

Andrew: Also, her higher-ups at the Daily Prophet are to blame here as well. They should be asking, “Well, who are your sources?” Bodies? I mean, that’s a bold claim to make, saying that bodies were pulled out.

Eric: Right, she needs an editor, to be like, “You can’t say this without… you need to give up your source.”

Andrew: And presumably she has one, but they’re letting this go, too, so the Daily Prophet is very irresponsible as well.

Eric: Yeah, that’s a good… if Rita has an editor, they’re as morally bankrupt as she is. [laughs] Because the stuff she gets away with this whole year is insane.

Laura: Hey, it sells. What is it? What’s the saying? “If it bleeds, it leads”?

Andrew: If it bleeds, it leads. Yep.

Eric: Oh, man. Well, and bad news is good news, or all news is whatever…

Andrew: Everybody listening, watch your local news tonight on television. What’s the first story they feature? Somebody getting killed in your city. And unfortunately, it’s indicative of a larger problem in this country, but if it bleeds, it leads. That’s what gets people’s attention right at the top.

Eric: Man.

Laura: We can give Rita a little bit of credit here because Arthur also mentions that part of the damage control, part of the interference that he’s having to run, is because due to all of Rita’s buzzing around over the last few days because of these events, she found out about Bertha Jorkins’s disappearance. Credit where credit’s due. Was she ethical about how she did it? Absolutely not. But is this a case where Rita’s particular style of journalism, lacking in integrity though it is, is doing an actual public service?

Eric: Well, look, I think there’s very important points even that Rita does make, like the things she says about there being lax security and a national disgrace that the Death Eaters got to parade around. She’s not wrong.

Laura: No.

Eric: That’s absolutely 100%. Dark wizards running “unchecked”? Absolutely; that’s exactly what happened. So I don’t think that there… we cannot fault her for saying some things because they’re absolutely true and fair, and people should be questioning the government when a blunder like this happens or when somebody like Bertha Jorkins disappears. The fact that he – meaning Bagman – is outed in this chapter as not having done any searching… because Percy alludes to the fact; he’s like, “I told Bagman to do some searching.” The fact that he hasn’t, good, because they have done… everyone has failed Bertha Jorkins. And Rita Skeeter, it just takes somebody like her to be like, “This is a nightmare.” And is she exaggerating? Actually, this case, no. It’s a nightmare.

Andrew: In some ways, she is the much needed voice for critical Harry Potter podcasters like us.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: We’re out here making these accusations against the Ministry and the wizarding world and all the issues. We can’t criticize her! We’d be throwing rocks in a glass house.

Eric and Laura: Wow.

Andrew: We stand with Rita here at MuggleCast.

Laura: Oh, no. [laughs]

Andrew: Lax security.

Micah: So you agree that she saw Dumbledore for who he was.

Andrew: I didn’t say that. [laughs]

Laura: Oooooh…

Andrew: Is this how you want to start the year, Micah?

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Micah: Well, she wrote a book.

Andrew: I must admit that I do have the Life and Lies of Albus Dumbledore

Micah: From MinaLima.

Andrew: … MinaLima print framed in my home, so yes, actually, Micah, I am saying that.

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Laura: Whoa. Andrew, you spent all of 2023 touching grass…

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: … and now you’re starting out 2024 saying that Dumbledore is a liar and a fraud. I can’t believe it.

Andrew: No, I still need to stand with all my Dumbledore fans who listen to the show.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: We’ve put him in a corner here. He’s in a corner.

Andrew: Don’t worry, I won’t let you down. I’ll burn that print from MinaLima tonight.

Eric: Oh my God.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: I mean, it was several hundred dollars. But I’ll burn it for you all. [laughs] In solidarity.

Eric: There has to be an alternative.

Andrew: It’s signed by them.

Laura: Please don’t.

Micah: I will say, it is nice to see somebody challenging the Ministry just given how much we’ve seen and will see the Daily Prophet be a mouthpiece for them, thinking as we move forward in this book into Order of the Phoenix.

Eric: Exactly, exactly. I think the real solution here is just to have more journalists. I mean, Rita is the only journalist we ever meet, and she goes way off the deep end, but that’s not a reason to say we shouldn’t have any journalists, right? And to your point, Micah, of somebody challenging the Ministry, absolutely. But somebody should also be out there; another journalist should be challenging Rita. There should be two, at minimum, investigative sensationalist journalisms given equal bylines in the Daily Prophet, where you can read the perspective of more than one person. And hopefully, hope to God, hope to Merlin, they hire somebody with more integrity. But if there was just somebody else out there doing the work that Rita is doing, she would be forced to toe some line or be more of the middle ground, or people would appreciate her eccentricities because they would never venture into that territory of utterly absurd, or she would lose viewers to the person that was doing the more balanced, level-headed stuff. So this is a situation where more competition would breed better, I think, moral ground.

Laura: I hope so. But honestly, people love sensationalism. I mean, look at our own media, right? I mean, you see some of the most sensational lies being the outlets that get the most attention, the most viewership, readership, what have you, and I think that’s exactly what Rita is meant to represent here. Presumably there are other journalists who work at the Daily Prophet; we just don’t hear about them.

Andrew: This also ties into what we were talking about a few minutes ago with Rita being allowed to publish that bodies may have been pulled out of the forest. In a way, the fact that that got through was a canary in the coal mine for what we would later learn to be more corruption at the Daily Prophet.

Laura: True.

Micah: Right. And I would say the biggest challenge, Eric, to Rita is, of course, Xenophilius and the Quibbler, but the issue there is that they’re not taken seriously for their journalism. They’re just seen as crackpot.

Eric: Well, and Xenophilius is unhinged.

Micah: Yeah, but there is truth in some of what he writes, right? A smidge?

Eric: You’re right, but there’s nobody in-house. The United States used to have something called the Fairness Doctrine, and it required investigative stuff like this, matters of public interest, to be given broadcast time for both sides of an argument, and Rita Skeeter instead is able to run roughshod, publish anything that she wants, presumably without any level of needing to censor herself. And this is what allows her as the book goes on to relentlessly smear Hermione and all of the other crazy things that happen throughout the years. So it’s all because nobody is really making sure that there’s any kind of level or balanced or reasonable thing being in the print media.

Laura: Yeah, I think she’s also a representation of the British tabloids, which are a whole different level of gossip journalism that I think, based on events of the last 10 years or so, I think we’re all pretty familiar with. But British tabloids can be particularly vicious, and I really think particularly with regard to how Rita treats Hermione in turning her into a villain, I think that’s her place here. And unfortunately in this story, the Ministry is rubbing shoulders a little too closely with the Daily Prophet as the series goes on. Something I thought was interesting about Rita, and now thinking about Molly, is that Molly clearly recognizes that Rita Skeeter is a hack in this chapter. She tells Arthur not to let this woman “ruin whatever time off you have; she’s a hack.” I forget exactly how she referred to her, but it’s clear that Molly has no love for Rita Skeeter. But then later on in the book, she laps up everything Rita says about Hermione and treats her horribly. I thought that this was so interesting, and I was wondering why we think that is.

Eric: I think that Rita’s comments negatively trigger Molly’s mother instinct for Harry, and it’s one of the few subjects… one of the few ways to get Molly to turn on anybody is to make her think that one of her sons is being abused. That’s the only way that that this person could appeal to Molly. But because people who believe something unpopular need that verification; they need to believe that they’re good people. She then switches over and is like, “No, Rita Skeeter…” There’s no thought to it, because she needs to justify protecting Harry at all costs, so she’s now going to believe this person that previously she wouldn’t have given two inches to.

Andrew: Yeah, Harry is sort of her North Star, so I like your point that you’re bringing up about “gotta protect Harry at all costs.” I wonder if she’s also carried a little disdain for Hermione in the background…

Eric: Maybe.

Andrew: … and now some of that’s being brought to the forefront with Rita’s reporting.

Laura: I don’t know.

Eric: It occurs to me… what you were saying, Laura, a moment ago about Rita Skeeter being against the Ministry, but the Daily Prophet in the future always being the mouthpiece of the Ministry… I think what changed at the end of this book is when you’d usually have somebody like Rita calling things out and being negative about the Ministry, that’s when Hermione has captured her. And so Hermione might actually negatively impact the future of the wizarding world, because by removing Rita from the equation, the only people publishing at the Daily Prophet are the ones that are going to say what the Ministry wants them to say, and not somebody like Rita, who probably would have found something unpopular to say government-wise.

Laura: Yeah, I wonder how long they would have kept her on as a reporter at the Daily Prophet. I can definitely see them parting ways with anyone who doesn’t toe the line. But it’s a good point, that not having Rita’s voice out there… and it’s unfortunate, too, because I think we’re establishing that she has her moments where she’s right, but she’s not leading with the being right. She’s not leading with doing the right thing; she’s not leading with the ethics of it. She’s leading with salacious details, juicy stories, hot goss, as the kids say, and that just, I think, removes any validity from anything she brings to the table, right? She doesn’t care about Bertha Jorkins; it’s just a juicy story. “Incompetent Ministry official loses one of his department members for four months, doesn’t report it.” That’s really what she’s looking for.

Eric: Yeah.

Laura: So obviously – I think we’ve touched on this quite a bit – we’re all pretty familiar with the real world consequences of this brand of journalism. Clearly, media literacy is as much a problem in the wizarding world as it is in the Muggle world. So I wanted to ask for an honesty moment. This is a safe space, everyone…

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: … but have any of us ever been caught up in following salacious gossip-based reporting? I have.

Andrew: Oh, following. At first I read this as, “Has anybody been reported on in the gossip rags?”

[Everyone laughs]

Laura: No, no, no!

Andrew: Well, the reason my mind…

Laura: I mean, I know you have, Andrew.

[Laura and Micah laugh]

Andrew: Yeah, so briefly, I’ll just…

Micah: Yes to both for Andrew.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: To answer your actual question, Laura, yeah, some gossip is fun to read. I used to be really into PerezHilton.com, and I still enjoy reading TMZ, even though, believe it or not, I find a lot of that actually fact-based. But a lot of people might not know there was actually a gossip rag for the Harry Potter fandom called the Acid Quill, and this was a real thing that two people were running. I later found out who wrote it; years and years later I found out who wrote it/was running it. But they were “reporting” [laughs] on things that were happening at fandom events, and there was some reporting on me at one point. I’m sure you all were mentioned at other points.

Eric: Not me. I escaped.

Laura: No, I was not important enough.

Andrew: Well, you all are just angels, aren’t you? [laughs]

Eric: Yes, we are, and that’s the point.

Andrew: No, but it didn’t report anything bad about what I was up to, but it was a little spooky because somebody… information was being leaked. And they later apologized for it; they were kind of teenagers who were doing it, who were…

Laura: Yeah, it was creepy, though, because they managed to get pictures of people at parties that were not open. And not just Andrew, I mean; other prominent figures in the Harry Potter fandom were being written about and gossiped about. It was wild.

Andrew: Yeah, the details are what were disturbing me. I can’t say I remember any photos. But it was rough; I didn’t like it.

Laura: Oh, do you remember how they would get people’s AIM transcripts?

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Andrew: No, I don’t remember that.

Micah: Wow.

Laura: I remember that. That was awful. Anyway.

Eric: I wonder if I can recruit them to get mine and Emerson’s old AIM transcripts for me, because I miss those conversations, away messages…

Laura: Did you have a bunch of fights with him over AIM? Because I think everybody did. [laughs]

Eric: Well, probably not. I mean, I’m pretty sure it was like, “Hey,” and three days later was it like, “Hey, how’s it going?”

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Eric: “Not bad, just read a book a day,” something, something. [laughs]

Micah: “Love my hat. Thank you.”

Eric: “Thank you. Thank you, sir.”

Micah: “Go Irish.”

Laura: [laughs] Well, I will say that I have definitely found myself getting caught up in this kind of journalism, and it’s not even necessarily journalism as it relates to celebrities or pop culture. I have definitely found myself following certain political stories where there’s a gossip angle probably a little more closely than I should have, especially if it was somebody that I didn’t like. Just being totally real with y’all. Like, yeah, it’s human. I’ve done it.

Andrew: Yeah, for sure.

Eric: And definitely this sense of closeness, or like you personally know somebody who’s a celebrity or a government official, is a very attractive failing of the human race. A psychological thing that we do… it brings us joy to feel close to the Kardashians; it makes us feel like we… we either live vicariously through something or we hate-watch their relationship tank. There’s a lot of social aspects to the psychology behind why this kind of news that Rita Skeeter is putting sells. And so to your point, Laura, I think yeah, it is. It is totally normal. It’s certainly prevalent, and it is a lot in the real world.

Andrew: People naturally enjoy watching a train wreck. We love mess. We like watching the s-show.

Eric: Give me the tea. Give me all the tea.

Micah: Well, I also think that…

Laura: And in that way, we’re not so different from wizards.

Andrew: Right.

Eric: Wow.

Micah: That’s true.

[Laura laughs]

Micah: But I think we subscribe to forms of media that fit our belief systems, but that doesn’t always mean that those forms of media are truthful, and I think you have to look really hard to find unbiased journalism. I think you may not find it anywhere, to be quite candid, right?

Andrew: True.

Micah: Because there’s always some personal element that’s factored into what that particular story is.

Andrew: A personal bias.

Micah: Yeah, it’s probably an unconscious bias on some level. And I was thinking specifically… I mean, yes, it could be very easy for me to sit here and say, “Yeah, Fox News, fair and balanced? Yeah, right.” But I was thinking more so in this case of the New York Times, right? Their tagline is “All the news that’s fit to print,” but isn’t that just them printing the news that they see fit to print?

Andrew: Yes.

Micah: Because there’s plenty of other news out there. So I thought I would…

Eric: I think that’s it, like the Washington Post too, as well, had to disclose I think at a certain point the disclaimer of who owns them, right? And when you have these major, major, major news conglomerates being owned by corporations, you’re not getting unbiased news.

Laura: Right.

Eric: You’re getting the most politically appropriate news that’s politically appropriate for the company that owns that news outlet, and don’t kid yourself that there’s anything other than that happening. So the Daily Prophet being the wizarding world’s only real established source of news that we see is a huge problem, just because again, there’s none of that competition going on. There’s none of that desire for truthfulness.

Laura: Yeah, that’s such a great point.

Eric: So follow MuggleCast on Truth Social. We’re starting…

[Everyone laughs]

Micah: Yeah, everything we say, you’d totally believe.

Eric: Your unbiased news source.

Laura: Yeah, if we did that, I would quit the show. [laughs]

Eric: [laughs] I would quit the show too. Oh, man.

Laura: Anything else apart from… I’ll just say this, y’all: Read your local news. You’re going to get a lot of really good reporting out of your local news. Local news goes very under-appreciated.

Andrew: And read multiple sources.

Laura: Yes, oh my gosh.

Eric: Yeah, media literacy right is like, please have some.

Andrew: So important. One of my favorite classes I took in college, media literacy. And I was actually just reading earlier today, states are slowly but surely starting to require media literacy classes. And to be clear, that’s understanding how to check sources, make sure you’re getting the right information, understanding what might be happening behind the scenes at media outlets, etc. Important class.

Laura: Too little too late, some might say.

[Andrew laughs]


Odds & Ends


Laura: But anyway, let’s move into some Odds & Ends. So I wanted to give Mundungus Fletcher a shout-out; he gets briefly mentioned in this chapter. He’s trying to commit, I think, the wizarding world equivalent of insurance fraud.

[Micah laughs]

Laura: He’s trying to get the Ministry to reimburse him for a much more exquisite tent than what he had, which was described as like, a coat propped up on a few sticks. [laughs]

Eric: Sticks, yeah. And he wants a 12-bedroom ensuite with jacuzzi.

Andrew: Fraud.

Eric: It’s fraud. But maybe first mention of Mundungus Fletcher?

Laura: Yeah, I think so.

Andrew: Ooh.

Laura: Ron also receives those horrid, horrid dress robes that are on his school list.

Eric: And featured as a bonus outfit in Hogwarts Legacy.

Andrew: Oh, yeah.

Laura and Micah: It is.

Micah: But Mrs. Weasley really doesn’t do Ron any favors here. And in the movie, we hear that these robes were hand-me-downs from somebody in his family, but it actually sounds like these were purchased, most likely at a secondhand store. But Ron is kind of the runt of the litter and he ends up with all the hand-me-downs. We look at Scabbers, his first wand… and I was just thinking to myself, both Bill and Charlie are employed. They couldn’t help Ron out from time to time with some nice things?

Andrew: Well, and also, Harry says he wishes he could give the Weasleys half his fortune. Why not just buy Ron a new dress robe set? He could.

Micah: He could, 100%. Especially given everything that the Weasleys do for him, right?

Andrew: Yeah, and Molly doesn’t have to know.

Laura: Yeah, I think he would if they would let him.

Micah: This will put Ron in a really bad situation. When he gets it in the movie, it’s in front of everybody in the Great Hall, and he makes the joke that it must be for Ginny, and Ginny is like, “No, it’s actually for you,” and everybody laughs at him and then he looks terrible when he goes to the Yule Ball. I just feel like Molly could have a little bit more care when it comes to Ron.

Eric: I forget where I saw this point, too, but Molly could sew something; she could fix it herself. She could get rid of some of that lace, maybe take it in a little bit, make it a little bit more masculine-presenting, instead of embarrassing Ron and then insulting him, saying if he runs around naked, it would be a sight to see. Unbelievable.

[Laura and Micah laugh]

Andrew: “I could use a laugh.”

Eric: But Ron leaves this chapter on such a down note. I mean, Pigwidgeon takes that exact moment to start choking on a biscuit or their food or something, and he’s like, “Why is everything I own rubbish?”

Micah: Because he probably realized how bad that thing looked too.

Eric: I know.

Laura: Probably.

Andrew: And that was the closing line of the chapter. “Why is everything I own rubbish?” It was quite the downer of a way to end the chapter.

Eric: It’s a real downer.

Laura: I know. Poor Ron.

Andrew and Eric: Yeah.

Laura: Honestly, if I were him, I would just take my regular school robes and ask one of the professors to just change the color of the robes, because Harry’s robes are described as just looking like his school robes, but they’re emerald green. It seems like there could be some magic worked.

Eric: Well, they’re fourth years at this point; they should be able to alter garments themselves, change the color of this thing. Come on, that seems pretty easy, right? To your point about hand-me-downs, too… and Bill and Charlie, maybe none of them ever had dress robes that they could just give Ron, and that speaks to the uniqueness of the Yule Ball, which is not being mentioned yet. There’s been no call for formal school robes at Hogwarts in possibly the entire time since before Bill and Charlie went to Hogwarts, so it’s actually a big deal that’s masquerading as… where the only talk we get of it is Ron’s disappointment.

Micah: Yeah, but they could have bought him robes.

Eric: Yeah, it’s fair.

Micah: They’re both cool. They could find something suitable.

Laura: Yeah, I think so. Moving on here, Harry reminds Ron and Hermione and the reader of Trelawney’s prophecy from the end of Prisoner of Azkaban about the Dark Lord’s servant returning to him and the Dark Lord will rise once again. So again, another really nice connection to Prisoner of Azkaban from this early point in Goblet of Fire. We know that Fred and George are noted as quietly working on something; we don’t yet know what it is.

Andrew: And Molly is already talking smack on Weasleys’ Wizard Wheezes…

[Eric groans]

Laura: I know.

Andrew: … which kills me because this was right after saying she regretted her final words to the boys about their OWLs before the Quidditch World Cup, and now she’s already back to her old ways. Did you not learn anything? I thought you did. You were a wreck. You were like, “Oh my God, I can’t believe the last time I’d seen you before the Quidditch World Cup, I said something bad.” And now here she goes saying something bad again!

Eric: Well, to their credit, they call her out on exactly that.

Andrew: Yeah, and she even laughs.

Eric: Well, but she knows that they’re persistent. And that’s the best and worst quality of the Weasley twins, is their persistence, and so they very well could be up to something negative. We know they’re not; they’re trying to draft a letter. But they could very well be printing up more order forms.

Micah: And along these lines, I know I’m always the one that gets called out for being a savage…

[Laura laughs]

Micah: … but Eric, actually you shared a transcript very recently: Episode 210, when we last discussed this very chapter. Laura, to this very point, said, “Yep, she’ll be regretting that one in three years.”

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Eric: Oh my God.

Laura: Listen…

Micah: It’s the Ravenclaw blood, the sarcasm.

Laura: It is. It’s there. But I feel like… I don’t know. I feel like I’ve become more subtle, 19 years later.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Eric: Yeah, you’re not in it for the shock value anymore.

Laura: No, I’m not. I’m not. I was Rita Skeeter back then. How long was that episode ago? 13 years, you said?

Eric: Yeah, 13 years, two months.

Micah: Oof.

Laura: Yep. And then finally here, Hermione thinks that it’s lucky that Rita hasn’t found out how Crouch treats his house-elves. In response to learning that she has found out about Bertha Jorkins, Hermione is like, “Oh, well, Crouch is lucky that she hasn’t found out how he treats house-elves.” And I think what Hermione is missing here is that the sad reality is that this treatment is so commonly accepted that it would never create the necessary shock to sell papers and thus would not be reported on.

Eric: Yeah. I think that’s more of a conversational retort that Hermione is trying to get a word in edgewise, but unfortunately, this whole book she doesn’t really have a case to state. There’s no shock about the elves being mistreated.

Laura: No.


MVP of the Week


Andrew: All right, well, that is the chapter, and now it’s time for MVP of the Week.

[MVP of the Week music plays]

Andrew: Going back to something we brought up a couple minutes ago, I’m going to give my MVP of the Week to Ron, specifically for the line, “Mum, you’ve given me Ginny’s new dress” when presented with his new dress robes.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: I thought that was very funny. And sorry, Ron.

Eric: I’m sure she does the laundry all the time. That must happen in a house with so many kids.

Andrew: Right.

Eric: Like, “Oopsie.” I’m going to give mine to Mundungus Fletcher trying to get a big, big tent from the government. Bless him for trying. I don’t dislike Mundungus yet. He’s great.

Andrew: Yet.

Laura: So far. Controversially, I’m going to give mine to Rita Skeeter.

[Andrew gasps]

Laura: Not because I like her, but because she is genuinely the most interesting thing that happens in this chapter.

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: And her entire character arc is really interesting to me.

Micah: And she’s not even there. That’s the best part.

[Eric laughs]

Micah: She’s not physically there.

Laura: I know, she’s not even there; she carries such a reputation.

Andrew: That’s how you know you’re good.

Micah: And I’m going to give it to Basil, [pronounces it BAY-zil] who is the master…

Eric: Basil. [pronounces it BAH-zil]

Laura: It’s Basil. [pronounces it BAH-zil]

Micah: I don’t know; however you want to pronounce it. The master of the Portkeys. That man was very busy the morning after the Quidditch World Cup.

Eric: It was such a stressful job.

[MVP of the Week music ends]

Andrew: Well, I think we had a good start to the year with Chapter by Chapter. If you have any feedback about today’s discussion, you can contact us by emailing or sending a voice memo recorded on your phone to MuggleCast@gmail.com, or by using our phone number, which is 1-920-3-MUGGLE. That’s 1-920-368-4453. Next week, we’ll discuss Chapter 11 of Goblet of Fire, which is titled “Aboard the Hogwarts Express.” And we will also enjoy one of our Slug Club patrons.

Micah: Choo-choo.

Andrew: Yes. Well, Micah, I mean, you’re not going to be here next week, so we’ll just have to play this sound effect again and again.

[Micah’s “Choo-choo” sound effect plays]

[Micah laughs]

[Micah’s “Choo-choo” sound effect plays]

Andrew: So you’ll be here in spirit.

Micah: Correct.

Andrew: And you’ll really be in Paris. Have a nice time.

Micah: Thank you.

Eric: Yeah, Micah, are you going to check out the Circus Arcanus? I hear they’re in Paris.

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: Yeah, I will…

Andrew: [laughs] You sound so excited.

Eric: Please take pictures of the French Ministry.

Micah: Yeah, I want to make sure I see them before they move to Orlando for their permanent residence.

Andrew: [laughs] We can do the bonus MuggleCast on that, actually.

Micah: But Père Lachaise, right? Probably cool to check out.

Eric: Oh, please go.

Andrew: Please go! I’ve never been. I would love to go to Paris. That’s next on my…

Micah: And I will be in London afterward, so I am headed to the Studio Tour and will report back.


Quizzitch


Andrew: All right, well, it’s time for Quizzitch.

[Quizzitch music plays]

Eric: Last year’s last Quizzitch question: What did Rita Skeeter once called Bill Weasley in an interview with Gringotts curse-breakers? The correct answer is a “long-haired pillock.”

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Which, at least it wasn’t me she called that. Correct answers; here are the winners for the last Quizzitch of last year. Justice for Winky; Mrs. Finnigan’s Irish wristwatch; The hella good boat Arthur made for Ludo Bagman; Bill and Rita totally got their Skeeter on; Pilbus Dumbledore’s Christmas cookies; Mundungus Fletcher’s 12-bedroom tent with ensuite jacuzzi; Hermione is an anarchist and I will die on this hill; Andrew’s unwholesome gift; All I will want for Christmas is sexy Bill Weasley; Stream the Triwizard Tournament on pillock, I mean Peacock…

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Eric: … BuffDaddy; HallowWolf; Katie from Hufflepuff; Nate the 12-year-old, cooler than this Luke kid… that’s harmful.

Andrew: Wow, ouch.

[Micah laughs]

Laura: Oh, man. Shots fired.

Eric: That was what they put. I think Luke is amazing. Okay, Elizabeth K; Amazing Skabidi; Perry over the 12th; If Ron is a time-traveling Dumbledore than the 1890s dress robes make perfect sense; Dumbledore’s lawn chair he uses to watch chaos unfold…

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Eric: … Wrackspurt Chaser; and finally, this is one I’ve never heard before in 20 years of being a Harry Potter fan. Question: Where can you find Dumbledore’s Army? Answer: up his sleevy.

Andrew: Okay.

Micah: I get it.

Andrew: Well, it sort of rhymes.

Micah: I’m excited mine made it.

Eric: Oh, yours did make it. Which one is yours?

Laura: Probably the one that had me shook.

Eric: Oh, Bill and Rita totally got their Skeeter on?

Laura: Yeah.

Micah: Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.

Laura: Oh, that was you. Okay.

Eric: Wow.

Micah: See, Laura and I are on the same wavelength. [laughs]

Laura: Yeah, I was shook when I heard… I was like… [laughs]

Micah: See, I was creative without being too inappropriate.

Laura: Yeah. I appreciate it.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: All right. Well, here is the first Quizzitch question of the new year: What spell does Hermione start learning on the Hogwarts Express in Harry’s fourth year? Meaning this year, meaning the chapter that we’re about to read next week. Anyone can submit their answer and fun nickname to us on the Quizzitch form, which is located on the MuggleCast website, MuggleCast.com/Quizzitch, or go to MuggleCast – set it as your homepage while you’re there – and click on “Quizzitch” from the main nav.

Andrew: Set it as your homepage. Speaking of MuggleCast.com, if you click on the “Must-listens” link in the menu, you will find our Wall of Fame, which was updated over our break; Micah added numerous episodes. This is a great place to go to find some of our favorite episodes of MuggleCast, some big news-oriented episodes of MuggleCast, some particularly fun and special episodes. So maybe if you’re a new listener, even over the last couple years, go to MuggleCast.com, click on “Must-listens”; you’ll find other great stuff, too: our Chapter by Chapter archive, our movie commentaries, special interviews, and more.

Micah: We added maybe ten or so episodes from 2023, including our most recent one, which I know we had gotten a couple suggestions in the Discord to just throw it up there, so our last episode.

Andrew: Oh, our best Christmas episode ever.

Micah: [laughs] Yes. Minus the cheer.

Andrew: [laughs] Got it.

Micah: Since it was such a dark episode. But I will say, the ones that I really enjoy going back and listening to are the ones that we did on the specific Houses, the deep dive that we did on Gryffindor, Slytherin…

Andrew: Oh, those were so fun.

Micah: … but more importantly, Ravenclaw and Hufflepuff.

Andrew: And you wrote little captions for each episode, which is great as well, so check all of those out on the “Must-listens” page on MuggleCast.com. You can also visit the site for transcripts, social media links, our full episode archive, and to contact us. If you enjoy the show and think other Muggles like you would, too, tell a friend about the show. We would also appreciate if you left us a review in your favorite podcast app. And last but not least, listener support is the reason why we are a weekly podcast, so visit Patreon.com/MuggleCast if you want to support the show and you’ll receive early access to the show, ad-free episodes, bonus episodes, yearly physical gifts, access to our livestreams, and so much more. And then, if you prefer to support us via Apple Podcasts, we now have MuggleCast Gold, where you’ll get bonus MuggleCast, ad-free MuggleCast, and early access to MuggleCast. As Micah brought up at the top of the episode, it’s a great deal. Whether you’re pledging through Patreon or Apple Podcasts, free trials are available and so are annual subscriptions, and if you sign up for a year upfront, you will receive a discount on that annual subscription. That’s our way of thanking you for supporting us for the year ahead. So that does it for this week’s episode. Thanks, everybody, for listening. Happy New Year. Excited to be with you in our 19th year of being your Harry Potter friends. I’m Andrew.

Eric: I’m Eric.

Micah: I’m Micah.

Laura: And I’m Laura.

Andrew: Bye, everybody.

Eric and Micah: Bye.

Laura: Bye, y’all

Transcript #639

 

MuggleCast 639 Transcript

 

Transcript for MuggleCast Episode #639, Christmas Lights or Chaos? (GOF Chapter 9: The Dark Mark)


Show Intro


[Show music plays]

Andrew Sims: Welcome to MuggleCast, your weekly ride into the wizarding world fandom. I’m Andrew.

Eric Scull: I’m Eric.

Micah Tannenbaum: I’m Micah.

Laura Tee: And I’m Laura.

Andrew: Grab your wand and your best pair of running shoes as we try to avoid Death Eaters, Veela, and annoying Ministry officials, because this week we’re discussing Goblet of Fire Chapter 9, “The Dark Mark.” There’s no better chapter to discuss during the holidays, as I wear a Santa Claus hat for our final episode of the year.

Eric: This is about as cheery a chapter as Batman Returns is for Christmas movies. [laughs] It’s got a lot of darkness.

Andrew: Yes. And we will be off for the next two weeks, but don’t fret, because we’d love to see you on Patreon, where there’s tons of bonus episodes available, including a brand new favorite headcanons installment, which is holiday-themed. So definitely check that out at Patreon.com/MuggleCast. Speaking of bonus MuggleCast, we also have another bonus up right now; we look back on 2023 and look ahead to 2024. And by the way, speaking of 2024: Beginning in 2024, those who financially support us via Apple Podcasts will be getting access to each installment of bonus MuggleCast. This is a new feature for Apple Podcasts subscribers. We’re also going to be raising the price of this subscription to $4.99 a month to accommodate for the additional content, and because Micah always says, “It’s such a great deal.” So it’s time for us…

Micah: Don’t blame me.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Eric: To be fair, you do always say, “It’s such a great deal.”

Andrew: Yeah. And it is such a great deal that we need to bring the price up along with new benefits.

Micah: Well, look, the way that I think about this is you’re getting four episodes every month, and then you’re getting two bonus MuggleCast segments, so that’s less than $1 per piece of content. And isn’t it ad-free?

Andrew: It’s ad-free and you get it early, yeah. So that’s how you can support us.

Micah: Oh my gosh, it’s less than a Starbucks.

Andrew: [laughs] It’s less than a Starbucks.

Eric: “A Starbucks”?

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: You can give up one Starbucks a month to get ad-free, early access, six pieces of content.

Andrew: I agree.

Eric: You can take that to the bank.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Andrew: With your “a Starbucks.”

Eric: Micah needs a fun catchphrase, yeah.

Andrew: [laughs] Anyway, there’s many more benefits at Patreon.com/MuggleCast for even more value, so definitely check either of those out. We really appreciate your support. We’re only doing the show because we have listener support; it really is as simple as that. And we have some big plans for 2024 as well. And again, we could only continue in this world of podcasting with your support at our backs. So thank you very much, everybody.


Game: Harry Potter Christmas quotes


Andrew: Like I joked – but also, I wasn’t really joking – today’s Chapter by Chapter is pretty dark, so first, we’re going to have a little holiday fun. We’re going to take a quiz together in which we have to identify what Harry Potter book a variety of Christmas-related passages are from. This is from Sporcle, and it’s a seven minute timer, but we’re definitely going to be able to knock this out in faster than seven minutes, I think. All right, and listeners, obviously please play along with us. So here we go. We’ve got 16 questions; here’s the first Christmas-related quote:

“His heart swelled with happiness and relief, and he felt like joining in as they heard Sirius tramping past their door towards Buckbeak’s room, singing ‘God Rest Ye, Merry Hippogriffs’ at the top of his voice.”

Laura and Micah: Order of the Phoenix.

Eric: Yeah, Sirius Black is only alive in two of those books.

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Andrew: Right.

“‘Go back to sleep’

Nah… presents!'”

Harry and Seamus.

Eric and Laura: Ooh.

Andrew: So the options are Goblet of Fire, Prisoner, Order, or Chamber.

Laura: I feel like it’s Chamber

Andrew: This sounds like an early one to me too.

Eric: I’m going to guess Goblet, maybe?

Micah: I was thinking Goblet because they’re not very nice to each other. Maybe it was just the way that it was being read.

Eric: Let’s go Goblet just because we’ve seen Chamber more recently, or we’ve read it, and it seems like…

Andrew: Okay. Oh, and you were right.

Eric: Hey!

Micah: Yay.

Laura: Good job. Good call.

Andrew: Next one:

“The lake froze solid and the Weasley twins were punished for bewitching several snowballs so that they followed Quirrell around.”

Well, obviously…

Laura: There’s only one option.

Eric: Deathly Hallows!

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Number four:

“Another Christmas has come and gone and I didn’t get a single pair. People will insist on giving me books.”

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Also Philosopher’s Stone.

Laura: Also, yeah.

Eric: Click on that sexy Thomas Taylor cover.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Andrew: “On Christmas morning, Harry was woken by Ron throwing his pillow at him.”

Laura: Ooh.

Andrew: That’s generic.

Eric: That might be the line that directly precedes the next line of “We’ve got presents!”

Micah: So you’re saying Sorcerer’s Stone?

Eric: It’s either Sorcerer or Chamber.

Andrew: We already had two Sorcerer’s, so I vote Chamber.

Eric: I think it might be…

Laura: It’s going to suck if it’s Philosopher’s again. [laughs] It’s one of those two, I agree.

Andrew: Okay, I’m going to say…

Laura: Just executive decision.

Eric: Click on Chamber; it’s fine. Oh!

Andrew: No! Oh, it was Prisoner!

Laura: Oh, we were all wrong!

Andrew: Next one:

“I’d rather have them than that necklace.”

Half-Blood Prince?

Laura: Yeah.

Micah: Half-Blood Prince.

Eric: It’s the only one I can think of that mentions a necklace.

Andrew: Yes. Next one:

“It’s Christmas, and it’s not a crime to want to come to a party.”

Laura: Well, that’s obvious.

Andrew: Oh, and Slughorn said that, so obviously Half-Blood Prince. Okay,

“The more the merrier!”

Eric: … said Sirius. [laughs]

Andrew: So, Order.

Laura: Order of the Phoenix.

Eric: 5, yeah.

Andrew: “Oy! Presents!” [laughs] Ron.

Laura: Okay, Sporcle, how the…?

Eric: All right.

Andrew: We’re on the clock. Just answer. [laughs]

Eric: This has to be Chamber. It’s probably Chamber.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: Oh, it’s Prisoner again!

Eric: Oh, it’s also Prisoner!

Andrew: That’s the book we just reread!

Eric: Wait a minute – in POA, Ron hits him with a pillow, and says, “Oy, presents”? Ugh.

Laura: Actually, that tracks.

Andrew: All right, next one, from Hagrid:

“Come on, cheer up, it’s nearly Christmas.”

Eric: And Chamber is not an option.

Micah: Oh, it’s not an option.

Laura: No. Is it Philosopher?

Micah: Gobbler? [laughs] Gobbler. Goblet?

Eric: Gobbler. [laughs]

Andrew: I have no clue.

Eric: Let’s guess… hmm, 1?

Andrew: I don’t think it’s number 1. Really?

Eric: Well, I’m only thinking that Harry has got something to be sad about around Christmastime in the first book.

Laura: Yeah, and they’re spending so much time in the library trying to figure… because they’re at that point in the story, right? They’re trying to figure things out.

Andrew: Ohh.

Eric: Or wait, no, they only figure out Nicolas Flamel after the break, but they could be looking him up and then Hagrid gets upset with them. He’s like, “You lot, keep…” It could be Goblet.

Laura: I don’t know. I’m not confident in this one. Andrew, be the fearless leader and make an executive decision. [laughs]

Andrew: [sighs] I liked your reasoning about their research in the library.

Laura: Oh, but what if it’s wrong?

Andrew: Actually, wait, what if Harry is stressed around the Triwizard Tournament? I’m going to say Goblet. DAMN IT!

Eric: Ohh, it was 1!

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Laura: Oh my gosh. See, ladies, ladies, let this be a lesson to you.

Andrew: [laughs] When in doubt…

Laura: We doubt ourselves too much. Don’t get in your head.

Micah: That’s Goblet of Fire.

Andrew: This one is obviously Goblet. Beauxbatons.

Micah: We’ve got to go; we’ve got three minutes.

Andrew: “Harry, I think it’s Christmas Eve!”

Laura and Micah: Deathly Hallows.

Andrew: This is from George:

“And you’re not sitting with the Prefects today, either… Christmas is a time for family.”

Eric: Wait, think about it…

Micah: Prisoner?

Eric: When does Percy have to stay over the holidays? And why?

Laura: When they go to visit Egypt?

Eric: They’re in Egypt? So that’s the end of 2.

Andrew: Oh, it was number 1!

Laura: No, because they went to Egypt in the summer.

Andrew: Oh. Okay, next one from Ron:

“Cheer up, it’s the Christmas holidays, Luna’ll be home!”

Got to be Order.

Eric: No, it’ll be…

Laura: Deathly.

Eric: Because he doesn’t even like her then. It’s Deathly Hallows.

Andrew: Ohh. From Dobby:

“Dobby is only wanting to wish Harry Potter ‘Merry Christmas’ and bring him a present, sir!”

2, 4, 6, or 5?

Laura: That’s Chamber, I think.

Eric: Is it Chamber? I thought it was Goblet, because what’s the one with the socks?

Laura: Oh, maybe it is Goblet, where he gives him Uncle Vernon’s socks?

Andrew: Oh.

Laura: Yeah, it’s Goblet.

Andrew: Yes! We were right. Final one:

“Dumbledore led them in a few of his favorite carols, Hagrid booming more and more loudly with every goblet of eggnog he consumed.”

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Micah: This is when they’re all eating together, right? Maybe?

Eric: 3?

Micah: When Trelawney is there?

Laura: Is that Prisoner?

Micah: I think it’s Prisoner.

Andrew: Oh, that does sound… yeah. All right, here we go. Damn it, it was 2!

[Laura gasps]

Eric: Did we get 50%?

Laura: Oh my God. I am shook.

Andrew: We got 69%. Nice. All right, well, that tripped us up a decent amount, actually. So that was just the right challenge level, I think. Well, thank you, everybody, again, for another great year here at MuggleCast. We’re very grateful for you. This next year will be 19 years of MuggleCast. 19 years later.

Eric: I feel like the year went fast, but on a recent bonus when we went over what happened and also what to look forward to, I feel like this actually was a good year in retrospect, among other years, as far as official material. It was certainly a fun year to live and do this show during, so I think that was all right.

Micah: Yeah. I think it was great to get back in person, too, and Eric, you and I were in Chicago for LeakyCon, and being able to connect again with our listeners was great. It had been several years since we had done that in Boston, so I was appreciative for that. And also, getting to see you, getting to see Andrew… Laura, we’ve got to work on this. [laughs]

Laura: Yeah, well, we’ll make it happen in 2024. There’s Podcast Movement, right? [laughs]

Micah: There is.

Andrew: That is an option. That is an option.

Laura: I’m down for that.

Andrew: We will jump into Chapter by Chapter in a moment. But first, this week’s episode of MuggleCast is brought to you by Masterclass.

[Ad break]


Chapter by Chapter: Seven-Word Summary


Andrew: It’s time for Goblet of Fire Chapter 9, “The Dark Mark,” and we’ll start, like we always do, with our seven-word summary.

[Seven-Word Summary music plays]

Laura: Winky…

Micah: … struggles…

Andrew: … to…

Eric: … explain…

Micah: … herself…

Laura: … to…

Eric: … Crouch.

Andrew: Perfect!

Laura: Good job, y’all.

[Seven-Word Summary music ends]

Laura: Second week in a row that I feel like we were aligned. We were in sync.


Chapter by Chapter: Main Discussion


Micah: So the way that we broke up this discussion, we’re going to talk about the Death Eaters and the Dark Mark, and then we’re going to get into Winky and her situation at the very end of the chapter. I did just want to say that we do discuss some heavy topics in this main discussion, and while we certainly pride ourselves on being a family friendly podcast, the content can get heavy at times and may not be suitable for all ages. I want to do a quick foreshadow alert; it was something that I caught in the early part of the chapter and it’s actually when Harry first falls asleep. It says,

“Harry saw himself in robes that had his name on the back, and imagined the sensation of hearing a hundred-thousand-strong crowd roar as Ludo Bagman’s voice echoed throughout the stadium, ‘I give you, Potter!'”

[Foreshadowing sound effect plays]

Micah: I forgot we had a…

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Eric: There it is!

Andrew: I forgot too. I had to look for it. [laughs]

Eric: I was like, “We have a sound effect for that.”

Andrew: So this is foreshadowing the Triwizard Tournament, you’re saying?

Micah: Yeah, particularly the first task, right? When Harry enters the stadium to face the dragon, he’s got his robe with his name on the back of it. And I’m trying to remember… does Ludo officiate the commentary?

Eric: I think so.

Laura and Micah: Yeah.

Micah: So it is a really nice foreshadow. And of course, it happens in Harry’s dreams, where many of the future events tend to pop up from time to time.

Eric: Good catch.

Laura: That is a good catch, because I think what Harry is imagining, and also what we’re led to believe as readers, is that if anything, it’s foreshadowing about Quidditch.

Eric: Right.

Laura: But we know that this actually could have a double meaning.

Micah: Yeah, absolutely. So the sweet dreams don’t last very long, and mass chaos ensues. And the Death Eaters use the post-Quidditch World Cup celebration to cause mass hysteria. It’s a mix of witches and wizards, some who are terrified, and some who are just drunk and enjoying the fun, and this makes it very hard for the Ministry to actually get to the Death Eaters that are causing all this commotion. And there’s also a lot of explosions, a lot of curses being fired in different directions, and I thought that this is comparable to how terrorists often use the situation that they create to hide amongst the chaos.

Andrew: Yeah, what jumped to mind, for me, was the Boston Marathon bombing, because that was set off in a very busy environment. And of course, when something like that happens in such a busy environment, it’s presumably easy to hide in plain sight because there’s so many people scrambling not knowing what’s going on.

Eric: It’s really wild, too, looking at the different… well, this is basically the culmination of the anti-Muggle sentiment, which will become even clearer throughout the chapter. But what began as harmless fun – or might even be presented as harmless fun or seem like it to some of these people who are drunk, not paying attention, chiming in – leads to real harm, and real harm is being done. And so the comparisons to terrorism or another comparison we’re about to make is exactly very true and apt, I think, because this is all stemming from people who ultimately have these biases and don’t any longer have any inhibitions.

Micah: Right, and it’s also an event that is supposed to be a celebration, and it’s taking advantage of something that would normally be very positive and leveraging that for their own nefarious purposes in this case. And the Death Eaters are doing a very good job of concealing themselves; they’re dressed in these hooded cloaks with masks. And they’re marching in a Klan-like formation, and I thought to myself that this is very similar to the attire of the KKK here in the United States and the rallies that they often hold, and unfortunately, they still do it to this day. And I’m thinking back to… Charlottesville is probably the most recent one that, for us here in the United States, we can recall where it’s been so prominently displayed on television and other forms of media.

Laura: Yeah, for sure. And I think it’s such a great comparison for this chapter, because I think there’s probably a tendency in the wizarding world – as there is in the Muggle world – when something bad happened a perceived long time ago, people think that because it’s not happening anymore, because it’s no longer overtly active, that it’s done and that we’ve weeded out that particular cultural rot and we’re beyond it. But we’re not, because you never fully weed that kind of thing out, and that’s why the KKK example is so relevant here, because although the KKK are still alive and well in this country – we know that for a fact, to your point, Micah – they are generally seen as being less influential and less powerful than they once were. I think in some ways they’re seen as being more underground than they used to be. The fact that it still exists at all is obviously a problem, but that just goes to speak to how insidious this kind of discrimination and bigotry can be, that even if you think it’s gone, there’s still that undercurrent, right? And I was actually thinking about a historical point of reference that I can personally speak to on this topic, because I can see how somebody reading this chapter could look at Ron and be like, “How does Ron not know what the Dark Mark is? How does he not know what it means? It’s crazy to me that he’s raised in this world, and it seems like of the three of them of the trio, Ron should be the person who understands what’s going on.” But this actually isn’t super atypical. Y’all know that I’m from Georgia; I grew up here. The county in Georgia that I grew up in, Forsyth County, up until very recently in history – I’m talking late 1980s – had declared itself an all-white county. It was a sundown county, where essentially it just wasn’t safe to be there as a person of color, and it certainly wasn’t safe to be there after sunset. And there is a lot of history that you can read about Forsyth County, in particular in a book called Blood at the Root that talks about the really violent history in Forsyth County around being a sundown county. So just to put it in perspective, this was happening into the late 1980s. I was born in 1988. So this was happening all around the time that all of us were either just being born or were very, very young. I grew up in Forsyth County, and I did not learn about any of this sundown county or any of the violent history. Sundown policies are enforced through intimidation and violence, and it is well documented that it happened, but again, it wasn’t something that was ever discussed or taught to us in school. And even outside of an educational context, nobody ever talked about it. As a matter of fact, my eighth grade year of school, my social studies class was called Georgia Studies. [laughs]

Eric: Wow.

Laura: And we didn’t talk about it there, even though we lived in the probably most nationally prominent sundown county in the country, because Oprah actually went and filmed a special there in like, 1986, at great personal risk, because of these policies and these ideologies and how dangerous it was to be Black in Forsyth County.

Eric: Oh my God.

Laura: So yeah, it is highly documented. But if you’re a kid and you don’t know that that happened, and none of the adults who were there and remember what it was like talk about it, then you’re not going to know about it. So it actually makes total sense that Ron has no idea what’s going on here. And I know that’s a little bit of a tangent, but it felt like a really relevant real-life touch point to what we’re seeing happen in this chapter.

Andrew: Yeah. Thank you for sharing that.

Micah: It is, because both are hiding in plain sight, right?

Laura: Right.

Micah: To your point, the experiences that you’ve had in growing up in Forsyth County with the KKK, they’re right there, right? And nobody necessarily knows, or nobody really talks about it. And I feel like that’s the case, too, with the Death Eaters. Yes, they’re walking around, and they’re cloaked and they’re masked, but for so long of a period of time after Voldemort’s downfall, they were also hiding in plain sight. And they’re using this moment… it’s not really clear, and we can talk about this later. Are they doing it to have fun? Are they doing it to inspire fear? Is it a little bit of both? And then bleep gets real once the Dark Mark is actually cast. And I think they actually were scared by that, because they didn’t realize that the situation was going to actually escalate to that level. They weren’t expecting Barty Crouch, Jr. to be there and cast the Dark Mark.

Eric: Yeah, but they unleashed real horrors this evening.

Micah: Oh, yeah, of course.

Eric: And they were given that opportunity, because everybody just ignores their existence and allows them… basically creates an environment where something like this can happen. And Laura, to your extremely personal and relevant point, I just think that the failure to teach new generations about racism, especially in counties where it’s practiced, leads kids to just believing that it’s a fairy tale, to not understanding the real harm that it does. And it really – I’m just going to say it – is tantamount to complacency. Ultimately, it makes it okay, because you’re treating it like it didn’t happen. And it did happen. And people were very deeply harmed, and continue to be so. So kids grow up; they believe it’s harmless. It just is not a great thing for anybody. And the Ministry, we know it’s uncomfortable for them to talk about Voldemort. In the 13 years, though, since he fell, it’s time to actually start preventing that kind of thing from happening again by talking about it. So yeah, Ron not knowing about the Dark Mark is very interesting, but it makes sense. Nobody’s talking about it.

Andrew: Which is frustrating, because to Laura’s story and to your point, it’s so recent. 13 years really is nothing, and they’re moving on like nothing ever happened. And by the way, Voldemort is still somewhere lurking.

Eric: Yeah, and this is a very obvious sign that the Ministry didn’t get everybody. And this is a big FU to the Ministry; this is one of the most Ministry events of all… somebody in this chapter says that, too, “I can’t believe they did this with… everyone from the Ministry is here.” And there’s a group of people… we’re going to get to what they’re doing, but you know, with the Muggles, and that is, “Hello, we’re free. You didn’t get us, otherwise, we’d still be an Azkaban.”

Laura: I feel like there’s a point to be made there about why you never see certain Ministry employees and Death Eaters in the same place.

Eric: Wow. The call is coming from inside the house.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Laura: Yeah, exactly, exactly. And that’s not to say that everyone at the Ministry is on board with this, but to your point, Eric, leaning into the complacency because it’s comfortable, because you don’t want to talk about it, because it was an ugly time. And best case scenario, you hated it and you hope it never happens again. We all know what happens to people who don’t study their history and aren’t aware of their history – they’re just doomed to repeat it, which is exactly what happens.

Eric: And you want to say, “Oh, it’s harmless,” or “Oh, it’s not going to…” or “We’re better than that.” You’re not. We’re not. As people, we are not better than that. And talking about it is the only way you can prevent for it.

Micah: Well, this was alluded to a bit already, but the Roberts family are the main victims of the Death Eaters that are marching through the camp site. And they’re described as being handled like puppets. They’re completely vulnerable; they’re unable to defend themselves. It’s really a nasty scene.

Andrew: And Ron says at least twice, like, “Wow, that’s really messed up. That is really messed up.” This also explains to us why there was such a focus on Mr. Roberts a couple chapters ago; we were wondering about that, like, “Why are we even dealing with this guy? The wizards could have just like, sent him out; confused him and sent him far away.” But Rowling involved Mr. Roberts and the whole family just to illustrate how terrible Death Eaters are, that they will mess with Muggles in a crowded space for fun.

Eric: Yeah, and we might want to issue another content warning because of, specifically, what’s being done to Mrs. Roberts, and also what happens with Draco and Hermione later. There’s some very ugly stuff here, and it just shows how this cannot be tolerated.

Micah: Yeah. And I think that certainly when we went through this chapter the first time for Chapter by Chapter, I’m not sure that we were all reading as deep into the text as as we’re doing now.

Andrew: Oh, no.

Micah: And there’s a lot of things that we’re talking about that we’ve probably gone through our own life experiences in the last 13 years since we’ve talked Goblet of Fire, and we’ve seen things happen around the world that are influencing a lot of this conversation, but in particular with Mrs. Roberts – and I apologize, because I actually read this somewhere and I can’t remember where I came across it – but she’s flipped upside down to reveal her undergarments. And as if that situation is not bad enough, Draco Malfoy, when the trio run into him a little bit later on as they’re trying to escape what’s happening, he threatens Hermione with the same kind of treatment. And now, you could say, “Well, Mrs. Roberts is a Muggle; Hermione is Muggle-born, so he’s just making an association.” But whether or not this registers in his head, he is essentially threatening her with sexual assault. And he’s 13/14 at this time; I’m not sure that that’s necessarily processing. He’s just looking to inflict some sort of harm, and we know Draco; he’s not going to deliver on it. He’s more of a verbal abuser than anything else. But this is pretty nasty; it’s about as nasty as it gets and about as bad as we see him in the entire series. Somebody asked the question – I think it was you, Eric – is this his worst moment? I don’t know that there is a worst one, honestly.

Eric: Nope.

Andrew: Yeah. Whether or not he would actually follow through with it, it’s definitely a really bad moment. And not that this excuses it, but kids say terrible things sometimes without realizing what they’re actually saying and what they’re actually talking about. And again, I’m not defending Draco in this moment, but suspect that that’s what’s happening here. I have memories of kids talking a lot of smack. He’s doing it because he gets a kick out of it, which is gross, but…

Eric: Yeah. And it’s funny because he’s asked about where his parents are, and it’s very clear that they actually are with that group of people, that he’s been left on his own to just be smarmy with people. But by the end of this chapter, it’s said, I think two or three more times, “Yeah, Malfoy’s parents were probably definitely with that group.” Children of these horrible people are doing horrible things.

Laura: For sure. I think in this case, and like most of the time we see Draco, I think that he is a bully and a coward who feels invincible when his parents are on the up and up in terms of their social standing right now. So in this circumstance, his parents are on the side that holds all the social power in this particular circumstance, so he feels emboldened to bully and terrorize verbally Hermione, and by association, Harry and Ron. But I think, just like we see later on in the series when he, despite holding these ideologies and being on the Dark Lord’s side, can’t bring himself to kill Dumbledore even though it was his mission. He’s been setting up all year to be able to do this. I don’t know that Malfoy would actually be brave enough in this moment to alert Hermione to the Death Eaters’ attention.

Eric: It’s just such a ridiculous threat, too, because she’s a witch. That’s what Ron says, too: “She’s a witch.” She’s not a Muggle, and Muggle-born people are not equatable to Muggles, and there’s nothing wrong with Muggles. He’s wrong on so many levels. And the fact that his parents in upbringing told him that it’s okay to say this kind of thing, to joke about this kind of thing, is the entire point. It shows you everything you need to know about Lucius and Narcissa.

Andrew: Well, and think how much worse this situation would have gotten, for the kids in particular, if Draco did alert the Death Eaters to Hermione, and let’s say the Death Eaters go after Hermione. Then what are Ron and Harry going to do? Of course, they’re going to come to Hermione’s defense, and other people are going to as well, and then they’re probably going to lose to the Death Eaters. So this could have gotten a lot worse too.

Eric: So getting back to the Roberts family – and it is the mother and the father and the two children – I’m of the mind that there is some trauma that isn’t fixable by a Memory Charm. I think that they’ve been doing Memory Charms on Mr. Roberts, at least, for weeks now, and his brain is already probably pretty frazzled from it. But trying to make you forget something as prolonged and awful as this probably, I would say, can’t be done. So do we agree on that point? And then my second question is, what kind of reparations could the Ministry do, or do we expect that they do, for this family in the wake of this?

Laura: They don’t do anything.

Andrew: [laughs] I was going to say put them in a nice cottage or something, by a lake.

Eric: They need to set these people up for life, absolutely. Give them an armed guard forever, all the gold in a Gringotts vault…

Andrew: But they’re Muggles; what are they going to do with all that? [laughs]

Eric: The equivalent of all that gold.

Andrew: Oh, okay.

Eric: No, but really, put them somewhere, give them their wildest dreams, and cast all the best charms to keep them comfortable for at least a generation. That’s what they need to do.

Andrew: Yeah, something to keep them comfortable. I agree with that.

Laura: But they definitely didn’t, and wouldn’t.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: This is the Ministry’s responsibility.

Laura: I agree.

Eric: There’s nobody to fight for the Muggles and how they’ve been violated in this way.

Andrew: But this is all the more reason to just keep all Muggles far away from the Quidditch World Cup and future ones.

Laura: Right.

Andrew: Yeah, because if something like this didn’t happen, something else would happen. Of course, you said they had to keep having their memories wiped, and as we said a couple of weeks ago, that probably grinds down your brain into mush. So yeah, just keep the Muggles away, period.

Micah: And this child is spinning 60 feet up in the air; his head is lolling from one side to the other. Andrew, when you were talking earlier about Ron, this is specifically what he referred to as being so sickening. And part of it, too, is – and Eric, I know you touched on this – is a child’s brain development affected by these types of Memory Charms, right? They’re not old enough to the point where their brain would even be fully developed, and they’re having an event as traumatic as this happen to them, and then their memory is supposed to be erased like it never happened?

Eric: Even if they don’t have the memory, their body has the memory. The body keeps…

Micah: Exactly.

Eric: They’re going to have PTSD. They’re going to be…

Micah: The body keeps score? Is that what you were going to say?

Eric: Yeah, yeah. In the quiet moments and things, they’re going to be on edge and not know why. And it’s because they’ve been attacked in this way when they were probably sleeping in their beds, completely unaware, and roused from their home and paraded through the streets. I said a couple of weeks ago that they were subdued a little bit magically or something. They’re not. They’re all conscious, and Mrs. Roberts in particular is entirely conscious this whole time, and that is so much worse than what I remembered. And you’re right, Andrew, too, there is a component here where it hits harder these days. We’re all talking about this, how today’s current climate, when Charlottesville and other events are so recent, really makes it feel and hit harder and feel more possible, like it could happen any day, that this kind of hate is still in this world.

Micah: Yeah. There’s a great line that trauma isn’t what happens to you; it’s what happens inside of you as a result of what happens to you.

Eric: Wow.

Micah: So the event itself is not the trauma. So these individuals, despite the event being wiped from their memory, are still going to have to deal with the after effects of this happening to them.

Laura: And not know why, right?

Micah: And not know why, yeah, exactly.

Andrew: This is our best Christmas episode ever!

[Everyone laughs]

Micah: On that note, let’s move on to some green lights in the sky!

Eric: Yay!

Andrew: Oh, Christmas lights!

Laura: Santa!

Eric: Do they twinkle? Are they leprechauns? Are the leprechauns back?

Micah: No, they went to sleep; they were drunk.

Eric: Oh.

Micah: So we move along in the chapter, and we’re now in a forest clearing type of area. And we hear the incantation “Morsmordre,” which is a mix of French words: “mort,” which means death, which we obviously know from Voldemort’s name, and “mordre,” which means to bite or sting. This is a very scary thing to see in the sky. It’s not something that has been seen for many years. And it scares not just the average witch or wizard that’s there; it also scares the Death Eaters, because they weren’t expecting that.

Eric: It shows the inner hypocrisy among all types of people as well, because none of them are really bold enough to send up the Dark Mark themselves. That’s a step too far. They’ll torture Muggles in front of large groups of people, but when the Mark is cast, that’s like saying his name, right? Death Eaters are terrified to say his name, and sending up the Dark Mark is the exact same thing. And it is a repudiation of the Death Eaters by Barty Crouch, Jr., who we know is the one that sends up the Dark Mark to tell them that they’re cowards and that they aren’t really his loyal followers.

Micah: Yeah, and I think it’s most comparable to the swastika. I think we all know that Hitler adopted it as the primary symbol for the Nazi Party in the 1920s. The murderous legacy of the Nazi regime, especially the Holocaust, permanently converted the swastika into a symbol of hate and anti-Semitism. And similar to how Nazis would wear a swastika band on their arm – this is something that we’re going to learn a little bit later on in this book – Death Eaters had the Dark Mark etched into their forearms.

Laura: And I’m glad that you made the comparison to the swastika for the Dark Mark, Micah, because obviously even today, as we’re seeing rates of anti-Semitism on the rise, we are seeing more and more cases of the swastika being used to inspire terror, even if people are just painting it somewhere.

Micah: Yeah, and both of these marks are meant to inspire fear, to convey hatred. And to your point, Laura, Arthur mentions, during the first wizarding war, how the Dark Mark would be cast above people’s homes where Death Eaters had murdered their families. And this is unsettlingly similar to homes or places of worship being marked with swastikas.

Eric: Yep, and just this idea… Arthur Weasley also says that half the Muggle killings during the first war, during Voldemort’s reign, were by people having fun, and that shows you just what a culture acceptance of tolerance to killing Muggles existed, especially among Voldemort’s followers. Like, “Hey, go out and do this. The Muggles deserve it. They’re not like you. They’re lesser than.” Voldemort is a lot more bigoted and a lot more dark in the pages of this book than he has ever been before for these kinds of reality checks.

Andrew: And it was disturbing to see Arthur recount like, “You had to have been there; you don’t understand how terrifying it was.” That was another really dark moment in this chapter. This is new to Ron and Harry; Hermione is the only one of the trio who understands how serious the Dark Mark is. But what I also found interesting about this is like, what is the right age to teach kids at Hogwarts about the Dark Mark? It seems they should definitely be educated on it, but then what is the right age? I feel like sooner rather than later, considering that only last happened a little over a decade ago.

Laura: I mean, look at our own educations. And there’s always an age appropriate way to teach these things, right? But I remember learning about the Holocaust in like, fifth grade for the first time.

Andrew: Yeah, pretty young.

Laura: And again, there is an age appropriate way to teach these things. I mean, I think we all read The Diary of Anne Frank, probably multiple times in school.

Eric: And Night.

Laura: And Night; that was another one. So yeah, it seems like there is a way to normalize talking about this horrible thing that happened in their society instead of trying to hide it.

Eric: In terms of what’s the right age to teach this, Harry just spent the entire last year of Hogwarts with a suspected Death Eater on the loose. That would have been the time for the whole government to start a curriculum on Death Eaters, what they were about, what they did, as a way of teaching and arming the students to suspect and locate him.

Andrew: Very good point.

Eric: What a great year to talk about Death Eaters, honestly, was last year.

Micah: Right. This goes to the whole complacency/complicity conversation we were having earlier. They look at Sirius as just being the one rogue agent, right? They don’t think broader, the fact that there could be more Death Eaters out there somewhere lurking around.

Laura: It’s scapegoating out of convenience, which we see from this Ministry all the time, and we’re going to see it later in this chapter.

Micah: It made me wonder – and we talked a little bit about this with Arthur – what it was like to have lived through Voldemort’s reign, what it must have been like to come back home. It had to be a constant thought in the mind of the wizarding world community when they would go out to work, or they would go out to the grocery store or anything, right? Just leave their house. When they came back, they didn’t know whether or not they were coming home to something awful. And it also reminded me of Slughorn. Remember how he behaves in the very early onset of Half-Blood Prince when Dumbledore and Harry come for him? He’s in hideout mode, and I’m wondering if that’s what a lot of witches and wizards had to do to stay safe from Voldemort.

Andrew: Yeah, hiding out, dealing with constant uncertainty, probably not able to sleep at night…

Eric: Arthur specifically calls it “everyone’s worst fear, the very worst.”

Micah: And we also talked briefly about this last point here, whether the Dark Mark was cast to inspire fear in those that were at the Quidditch World Cup, or to inspire fear in the Death Eaters themselves, and I think it’s probably a bit of both. Right, Andrew?

Andrew: Yeah. But also, I’m wondering, is it inspired by Voldemort’s recent progress? Are there rumors that Voldemort is making some moves, so it’s time to get the band back together and start instilling some fear again? Because I thought we were led to believe that the Death Eaters are excited about what’s been going on with Voldemort, because we also hear Harry thinks to himself, “I just had this dream a couple days ago and now this is happening?” These things are related, he suspects.

Eric: Yeah, I can see how from an outside perspective, it seems like the Death Eaters are aware of and in direct planning with Voldemort. We know that they’re not; Voldemort is not directly interacting with any Death Eater besides Wormtail and Barty Crouch, Jr. until the end when he calls them to the graveyard. So it’s interesting, because in the end, Barty Crouch, Jr.’s casting of the Dark Mark begins a year-long terror campaign against his fellow Death Eaters. Between this Dark Mark that sends them scuttling – everyone else in the group sees all the people in hoods start running when they see it, Disapparating immediately. Then the Dark Marks on their arm start growing less faint, right, throughout the year. This is what Karkaroff eventually tells… I think it’s Snape. And so to be a Death Eater who is causing this issue with the Muggles at the Quidditch World Cup, to see the Dark Mark, to be scared by somebody who’s either Voldemort himself or somebody who’s more faithful cast that to scare you out of your wits, and then to see the Mark on your arm… you’re going to have to atone for your deceptions and your departure from Voldemort’s inner circle. And that’s pretty much what I think is said in this chapter, even, is that the people who got away, the people who claimed that they were under a guise or something, they all abandoned the cause. And so Barty Crouch, Jr. sees them as hypocrites.

Laura: Exactly.

Micah: And Barty was a fall guy, to some extent, right? He took the fall. So moving along here, switching gears a little bit. So we do get Winky found at the scene of the crime. She is Stupefied. And of course, she is being unjustly accused of casting the Dark Mark, and basically convicted in the court of public opinion by several of the folks who are onsite. And I wanted to start, though, going back, because we do see Winky earlier in the chapter trying to get away from the chaos. This is when Harry, Ron, and Hermione are running throughout the campsite. They run into Veela. They run into Stan Shunpike. There’s a lot of fun little moments. But Winky in particular, it’s noted several times that it appeared as if she was being held back by something invisible, and I wanted to start there. And I know, Laura, you had some comments on this.

Laura: I thought this was really brilliant, because we know what’s actually happening here is it’s Crouch Jr. under an Invisibility Cloak pulling her, right? But Harry remembers that Dobby physically could not disobey orders, so he makes the assumption that Winky is so terrified and trying to run away, but that because she can’t physically disobey orders and Barty Crouch, Sr. told her to stay put, presumably, she is fighting against herself to be able to run away. That’s actually not what’s happening.

Eric: Two different kinds of invisible forces. [laughs]

Laura: Right.

Andrew: It’s a very fun misdirect, and you could potentially fool readers who really know their stuff as they’re reading for the first time, and yet there’s something else afoot.

Micah: Absolutely.

Eric: Yeah, it’s a perfect trick to have Harry see something he recognizes, and assume and be like, “Oh, we’ve seen this before.” We haven’t, but thank you for playing. [laughs]

Micah: Right. Yeah, it’s just great writing by J.K. Rowling. We see it, as you say, many times throughout the series. But wanted to talk a little bit about Barty Crouch, Sr. in this moment. So I guess to take a step back, as soon as the Dark Mark is cast, Ministry officials appear right away and they’re looking for the culprit. They blame Harry; at one point, they blame all three of them for having been responsible for this. They say, “The noise came from over there,” the Stupefy spell is fired, and we end up with Winky. But his treatment of Winky is really disgusting on so many levels. And Winky becomes, as this situation unfolds, his convenient culprit. And she is very much torn between protecting Barty Crouch, Jr., telling the truth – she gets very edgy and very nervous, almost to the point of revealing what was going on, but she doesn’t. And she also wants to keep her job. I mean, she’s essentially at times groveling at the feet of her master, as it’s actually said in the pages. And it’s just… this is a very sad situation to watch. This is really how house-elves are treated.

Andrew: Yeah, and it’s partly sad because these house-elves serve their masters, and you would expect that they would be getting some respect back after earning so much trust and putting in so much time over the years. And yet, they’re still treated like garbage.

Eric: Crouch is, in these moments, punishing Winky for getting caught, and punishing Winky for failing to keep his son in check. And he’s also in this incredibly impossible situation with the rest of the Ministry officials here, too, that he has to constantly defend his own record, when it’s suggested that he teaches his elf how to conjure the Dark Mark and all this other stuff. He says, “My record shows that…” He’s basically using the existence of his son, which nobody is talking about in this moment, the fact that he sent his own son to Azkaban prison where his son died, presumably, as a way to get out of suspicion for any wrongdoing on his part. And it’s cruel, because Winky is still the fall person for this, and so it’s just ugly.

Micah: It’s a flex, right? It’s a flex by Crouch, specifically in the direction of Amos Diggory. And yeah, it’s almost, Eric, it’s the indignation, “The gall you have to question my house-elf and my teachings of my house-elf that she would ever be able to do something like this.”

Eric: But he doesn’t let her off the hook because he’s still angry that she failed to keep his own son…

Micah: Well, there has to be some kind of justice here, right? It can’t just be that Winky gets away, even though the evidence suggests otherwise, and we’re going to talk about that, right? Harry, Ron, and Hermione heard a deep voice, presumably a male voice, casting Morsmordre, and only Voldemort’s followers know this spell and very few know how to cast it. And Winky is not in her right state of mind either; that’s clear. She is frazzled, she is stressed, she’s anxious. She’s had a full week of work. A full year of work.

[Eric laughs]

Micah: And not been given much time off.

Eric: A full life of work. Time off?

Micah: This reminds me of the conversations we’ve had about the Ministry and how they don’t look at the evidence. They go for the convenient culprit, like they did with Hagrid in Chamber of Secrets, like they did with Buckbeak in Prisoner of Azkaban; they go at Winky here in Goblet of Fire.

Andrew: With the kids, like, why believe kids?

Eric: Well, and you know who’s doing that bullying? Amos Diggory is the one who’s really doing a majority of the questioning. I want to ask, what the hell is his deal? [laughs]

Micah: He’ll get his; don’t worry.

Andrew: Ooh. Merry Christmas, Amos.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: Oh my God. No, but it’s fascinating because I totally forgot he was even in this scene, but he’s actually the one doing the majority of the questioning of everyone. And he’s questioning Harry, and he actually annoys Arthur, and that is a treat to see Arthur even be like, “What are you on about? No, of course not.” It’s wild, but yeah, Amos Diggory, in whatever capacity, I think it’s… whether he’s the one that says he works in the Department of Regulation and Control of Magical Creatures or not?

Micah: Yeah.

Eric: Like, okay, so that’s his edge? But yeah, the house-elf holding a wand is why he thinks he can prosecute her, I guess, in this moment.

Micah: And of all wands, it’s, of course, Harry’s wand.

Laura: Right.

Micah: And it’s funny; I was looking back at some of the notes from the first time we did this chapter, and there’s a great line in the show notes that said, “How does Harry forget his wand? It’s like your cell phone. You don’t leave home without it. You always know where it is.”

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Laura: Well, he loses it.

Micah: In the box, right?

Laura: He doesn’t actually lose it in the woods, right?

Eric: Right, he says he lost it in the woods, but he actually lost it long before that, because I think Barty Crouch snuck past Winky and took it out of his back pocket or something when they were…

Laura: Yeah.

Micah: Right. But think about how long that is; I mean, several hours. And it’s from the time he leaves the box to the time this all happens. He doesn’t notice it’s missing?

Laura: Harry is not the most observant guy; I don’t know if y’all haven’t noticed this.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: Harry needs an AirTag. Christmas gift for Harry. A stocking stuffer.

Eric: Needs an AirTag, aww.

Micah: And I was wondering, too, was the wand proficient in casting the spell because it’s the brother wand of Voldemort’s?

Eric: Ohh.

Laura: That’s why it came so easy.

Eric: I think it would run on the strength of Barty Crouch, Jr.’s conviction alone. I think he could get a toy wand to cast the real thing.

Andrew: Whoa.

Laura: The Fisher-Price wand?

Andrew: Now that’s a security nightmare.

Micah: All right, so a couple quick points here before we wrap up this chapter discussion, because it’s been a heavy one. I was curious, do we think Hermione growing up in the Muggle world informed her views on house-elves? And of course, we’re going to have a lot of time to talk about this in Goblet of Fire with SPEW. And as a contrast to that, do we attribute Ron’s views to his immaturity and his own upbringing within the wizarding world? Because we’ve talked a lot about how house-elves are the norm.

Andrew: Right.

Micah: There’s no reason for Ron to think otherwise, based on how he was raised. Now, certainly, his viewpoints can change as he grows older, and they do. But Hermione seems to have a very clear position on this, and I’m wondering if it’s because of what she learned growing up in the Muggle world, particularly with slavery.

Andrew: Exactly, partly that. You think the phrase “Hate is taught,” whether it’s racism, homophobia, etc. Ron has never known another way with house-elves. House-elves exists to serve, period. He’s never seen, evidently, resistance to house-elves in how they serve their masters. So then suddenly, Hermione comes and is like, “Whoa, wait a second,” then he evolves over time. But I don’t think it’s Ron being immature. I think that’s just how it’s always been in the wizarding world, so why think any different? We also have to keep in mind his age here.

Laura: Yeah, I agree. I think it’s just normal for Ron, like you were saying. And there are arguments to be made about what modern-day slavery looks like here in the real world, and you can maybe make the argument that because Hermione grew up in this Muggle world, some of those modern-day examples might not be things that would immediately stick out to her the way that house-elves do, because they’re very clearly reminiscent of a type of slavery that I think is oftentimes believed to be very old, a long time ago, so far back that it seems unimaginable that anyone would do it. And one, it’s really not that long ago, but two, it just doesn’t exist in this way in Hermione’s world. She’s never been exposed to it, so she knows it’s not normal.

Micah: Yeah, it’s a raw reaction. She’s experiencing it firsthand, and she calls it for what it is. And Arthur actually agrees with her; there’s a conversation between the two of them where he does agree with how Winky was treated by Barty Crouch, Sr., but he says to her, “This is not the time for that.” And just to end, this starts Hermione being very outspoken and critical, particularly of the Ministry. We saw a little bit of it, I think, in Prisoner of Azkaban with everything that went down with Buckbeak. We see more of it in this book. We definitely see it come through in Order of the Phoenix once Umbridge takes over. But this is laying the groundwork; she is not afraid to voice her opinion in front of Barty Crouch, Sr., Amos Diggory, Ludo Bagman, and Arthur – right, those are the main Ministry officials that are there – because she believes what she’s saying is right, and good for her.

Andrew: Gotta love her.

Laura: Yeah, and she breaks her usual alliance with Percy, too, we see. Percy tries to defend Barty Crouch, Sr.’s treatment of Winky and Hermione surprises him when she’s like, “Actually, no, that was not the move. That is not it.” And Percy is kind of taken aback; he’s not used to Hermione disagreeing with him, because they’re both such rule followers.

Eric: It’s such a crappy thing for Percy to do, because after all that’s happened, too, with his family, he’s lost any and all respect. And after Crouch himself got his name wrong recently, earlier today, he’s still obligated to defend Crouch and his honor, and it’s just so pathetic. I’m usually a Percy apologist, but I can’t get behind this. This is just extra pathetic, and it’s awful, and it’s only going to alienate him from his family.


Odds & Ends


Andrew: So I’ll kick off some odds and ends. We have a segment, if you will. A game. I don’t know what we call these little things besides sound effects. We have this one that we rarely use called “Evanesco that,” and I want to use “Evanesco that” on half of this chapter because there is way too much back and forth, going in circles, he-said-she-said-elf-said in this chapter, and I feel like it’s way overdone. It feels so redundant.

Eric: Yes, it does, but that’s how chaos happens in the real world, right? I think what’s being illustrated is even in a magical world, when you have so many talented wizards here, nobody can really actually know what happened in the sheer chaos of it.

Andrew: And don’t get me wrong, there’s critical moments in this chapter: learning about the Death Eaters, the Dark Mark, learning about Priori Incantatem, Hermione’s disgust over the treatment of house-elves… there’s plenty there, plenty big plot developments and all that, but I don’t know. Just reading this chapter a couple of times, it’s like, “All right, come on, we got it. Let’s keep moving here.” So anyway, Evanesco half of this chapter.

[“Evanesco that” sound effect plays]

Andrew: There’s no toilet effect in there.

Laura: I was like, is that a flushing toilet sound?

[Micah laughs]

Andrew: No.

Eric: I refused to put that in there.

Micah: I like the paper rustling. I do agree with you, Andrew, but I will say, I think a lot of groundwork was laid.

Andrew: Okay.

Micah: But yeah, enough of the back and forth. We don’t need that.

Andrew: Thank you. Look, there’s going to be enough back and forth at holiday parties this holiday season, am I right? This is a holiday episode.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Eric: Oh, God, the back and forth. Yeah, you’re right; it’s not Christmas without a back and forth. I think it’s just meant to illustrate the specifics, because it’s actually masterfully done, the way Winky has to lie to save Crouch Jr., but she has to lie to Crouch Sr. to do it, and all the while asserting that she did not cast the Dark Mark, which she didn’t. It’s really masterful, how she’s able to… and it does her no favors, but the writing, the dialogue there that happens is actually clever.

Micah: So a few other odds and ends. It’s noted at the beginning of the chapter that Fred and George have big plans for their winnings.

Andrew: Love it.

Micah: I don’t know if that’s really foreshadowing.

Andrew: It’s nice to see it teased in advance.

Micah: It’s a tease.

Eric: We’ve already had a chapter named “Weasleys’ Wizard Wheezes,” actually, so there you go.

Micah: We did.

Andrew: And they were big plans.

Micah: Do we have a sound effect for a tease?

Andrew: No.

Micah: We do get a mention of Beauxbatons and Madame Maxime. They are named dropped by a couple of students who seemingly have lost Madame Maxime.

Eric: It sounds like there was a field trip and Madame Maxime took a bunch of her students to the Quidditch World Cup, which is really cool.

Micah: She’s cool.

Laura: That is cool.

Micah: Stan Shunpike, trying to court some Veela with his friends. Harry comes across that in the forest.

[Eric laughs]

Micah: And then we mentioned this: Amos uses Priori Incantato, which is the actual spell. I think the action is Priori Incantatem. [laughs] So another Diggory will be a part of that a little bit later on in the book.

Eric: Yeah, well, the other thing is when the Dark Mark comes out and diminishes, it’s said it’s a ghost of a spell, and that specifically is very foreshadowing to the other ghosts that come out at the end.

Micah: That’s very true.

Laura: Ooh, I love that.

Micah: Yeah, I like that.

Eric: Let’s play the foreshadow sound effect again, because we have had a couple there.

[Foreshadowing sound effect plays]

Eric: There we go. I get cheered up every time I hear that.

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: That was a loaded chapter, so I appreciate everybody going through it with me. And hopefully the next chapter is a little bit more cheery as we start off 2024.

Andrew: Yes, better we got this done at the end of 2023, I suppose. Now it’s out of the way.

Eric: The next chapter is called “Mayhem at the Ministry,” so I don’t know how much cheerier it’s going to be.

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Eric: But at least we’re not at the Ministry to witness it.

Andrew: There’s probably going to be a lot of mayhem in 2024 as well, so in a way, it’s fitting.

Laura: And we have to remember what book we’re reading right now. There’s not a whole lot of cheer in this book.

Eric: Well, it’s not Book 5.

Laura: Oh, I mean, that one gets bad too. But this one, you’re dealing with… well, I won’t take up much more of our airtime, but you’re dealing with some pretty heavy themes for the first time in the series.

Eric: Like dragons?

Laura: Voldemort coming back, that’s a big one.

Eric: Oh, yeah. Right.


MVP of the Week


Andrew: All right, let’s move on to MVP of the week.

[MVP of the Week music plays]

Andrew: I’m going to give my MVP to the phrase “hither and thither,” used in the line, “Harry felt himself being pushed hither and thither by people whose faces he could not see.” It was a dark scene, but I was like, “Haha, hither and thither.” I just thought it was a really funny phrase.

[Eric laughs]

Micah: Can I also just say, though, I don’t understand the decision to split up. Like, “Okay, Harry, Ron, Hermione, you go by yourselves.” What? I know they…

Andrew: Yeah, this is a Christmas episode. We’re all about being together for the holidays.

Eric: So who suggests that? Who’s our least valuable person this week?

Micah: It was Arthur, who’s also my MVP… [laughs]

Eric: Ah, okay.

Micah: … but we can give him a pass on that.

Eric: [laughs] So why does Arthur get your MVP?

Micah: Because of his negotiation skills amongst Ministry officials, putting Amos in his place… he kind of wrapped up that situation; it was getting… to Andrew’s point earlier, there’s too much talking going on. Arthur was…

Andrew: It’s too much hithering and thithering!

Micah: Exactly.

[Eric laughs]

Micah: And you know what? Dad kept everybody safe, okay? He kept everybody safe at the end of the day. There were a few cuts and bruises. I think Charlie or Bill’s shirt was ripped. That’s probably a fanfic.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: He did that to himself.

Micah: [laughs] He did it to himself.

Eric: Arthur’s son Ron had a great line when they came across the Veela and Ron said, “Did you know that I’ve built a broomstick that’ll fly to Jupiter?” And I don’t know; I know Ron is a little under the spell of the Veela, but that’s a brilliant line. I think that’s a great brag.

Laura: I wanted to give mine to Hermione’s early justice arc. I’m really excited to see this develop over the next couple of books.

[MVP of the Week music ends]

Andrew: If you have any feedback about today’s discussion, you can contact us by emailing or sending a voice memo recorded on your phone to MuggleCast@gmail.com or by using our phone number, which is 1-920-3-MUGGLE. That’s 1-920-368-4453. Next week, [gasps] well, no new episode next week, but we’ll see you in 2024, and we’ll be releasing two bonus MuggleCasts over the break to keep you entertained. And hopefully you enjoy those and then you pledge at Patreon.com/MuggleCast, or you tap into the show on Apple Podcasts and subscribe there, because both platforms will be offering bonus MuggleCast in the new year. By the way, there’s a Patreon banner within Spotify as well; you can tap in and then get our audio benefits right in Spotify after you pledge.


Quizzitch


Andrew: And now it’s time for Quizzitch!

[Quizzitch music plays]

Eric: The final Quizzitch question of 2023 was: From which book does Hermione learn about Beauxbatons Academy of Magic? And the correct answer was An Appraisal of Magical Education in Europe. I don’t know why she didn’t find out about it from Hogwarts, A History; you would think that there would be a section for all the other schools, right? Anyway, I’m feeling generous, so for Christmas, which one of you would like to get to read the Quizzitch winners?

Laura: Micah, I think you should read it because one of these here is for you. [laughs]

Micah: All right. Correct answers were submitted by Martin Miggs, the Mad Muggle; Justice for Winky; Professor Stumblemore; Fleur’s Hot Veela Grandmuzzer; Severus Snape’s grease-clogged drain; Did you know in French Hufflepuff is Poufsouffle?!; George Weasley’s Surviving Ear; Coriolanus Snow… is that a reference to The Hunger Games?

Laura: It’s a Hunger Games thing.

Andrew: Stop delaying; get to the next one. [laughs]

Micah: All right. Micah, will you marry me?

Andrew: Aww.

Eric: You’ve got to answer them. [laughs] No.

Micah: Sure.

Eric: Oh.

Laura: That was easy.

Andrew: It’s a Christmas miracle!

[Everyone laughs]

Micah: Hot Dark Mark Pick-up lines; I’ll Show You Mine If You Show Me Yours…

[Everyone laughs]

Micah: Nice reference to…

Eric: The movie.

Micah: … Karkaroff And Snape, yeah. Elizabeth K; MuggleCast is the only… or no, wasn’t…? Sorry, I’ll go back to that.

Eric: It was Barty Crouch, Jr. at the end.

Micah: It’s Barty Crouch, Jr. at the end, sorry. Elizabeth K; MuggleCast is the only thing keeping me sane in this Muggleworld; Buff Daddy; Melissa; and my submission, which didn’t make it: It’s a bird, it’s a plane, no, it’s the Robertses.

Laura: Ooh.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Eric: Wow.

Andrew: That’s just mean.

Eric: Okay, you never get… I thought that was a little extra traumatic to read, so I didn’t include it.

Micah: Oh.

Laura: Well, Micah was the one reading the correct answers this week, so… [laughs]

Eric: Yeah, he did get it correct, though.

Micah: Next week’s Quizzitch question… [laughs] next year’s…

Eric: First Quizzitch question of the new year: What did Rita Skeeter once call Bill Weasley in an interview with Gringotts curse-breakers? This is a very specific one, but I like it. Thank you, Meg, for submitting that one.

Andrew: Visit MuggleCast.com for transcripts, social media links, our full episode archive, our favorite episodes, and to contact us. If you enjoy the show and think other Muggles would too, please tell a friend about the show, when you see them over the holidays. We would also appreciate if you left us a review in your favorite podcast app; that would be a great gift for us. Thank you very much. We love reading those reviews. All right, that does it for this week’s episode and this year of MuggleCast. Thank you, everybody, for listening. Safe travels over the holiday season. Safe consumption of holiday delights. You all will be receiving cookies from me if you haven’t already.

Micah: Aww.

[Eric gasps]

Laura: I got mine today.

Andrew: Wonderful, wonderful.

Micah: You mean from Pat.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Um, okay, well, somebody put them in boxes and mailed them, and that person was me, so… [laughs]

Eric: Thanks, Pat.

Laura: Yeah, I wanted to call out I got the cookies, and then a couple of days ago, I also got a really sweet package from Eric.

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: I did too. Thank you, Eric. I’d say what Eric got me, but I’m not sure I should say it on this family friendly program, but thank you.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: It’s not safe for MuggleCast, yeah, yeah.

Laura: Mine is very wholesome. I got a Christmas card from Ron Weasley and a camping book and a wilderness survival book, because I talked about loving camping.

Eric: Since you like camping.

Laura: It was great.

Eric: Yeah, I actually consulted Andrew on that and he said it would be a great gift, so we all helped. We all came together. Don’t we love each other so much?

Laura and Micah: We do.

Andrew: Well, I’m still waiting for my gift from Laura and Micah, but I think we all do.

Micah: Oh.

Laura: Well…

Eric: [laughs] Okay, I love you all very much.

Andrew: I’m just kidding.

Laura: We are doing a Secret Santa gift exchange on our other show Millennial this weekend, so I’m not saying your gift is coming from me, but you will be getting a gift in the Secret Santa exchange. [laughs]

Andrew: Oh, perfect. That’s perfect.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: Laura got Andrew, everybody. [laughs]

Laura: Maybe.

Micah: And speaking of Secret Santas, I did just want to give a big thank you to Shannon for this really awesome Three Broomsticks beer glass that I will certainly be utilizing this holiday season. And this was all part of the annual Secret Santa we do over on Facebook with our patrons.

Eric: That’s one of my favorite logos of all time, the Three Broomsticks logo with the three brooms that are in a triangle. I think that’s just…

Micah: And it says established 1621.

Andrew: Feels authentic. That’s cool. Thank you, everybody, for listening; thank you again for another great year. We’ll be back in the new year with many more episodes of MuggleCast to come and hopefully many exciting developments with the TV show and theme park and everything else. Check out that 2024 preview again at Patreon.com/MuggleCast. I think that’s it. Thanks, everybody, for listening. I’m Andrew, hithering and thithering one last time in 2023.

Eric: I’m Eric, riding on that broomstick that goes to Jupiter.

Micah: I’m Micah, just excited that I survived the Quidditch World Cup.

Laura: And I’m Laura, and I love you all.

Andrew and Micah: Aww.

Andrew: Bye, everybody.

Eric: Aw, Laura had the best one.

Eric, Laura, and Micah: Bye.

Transcript #638

 

MuggleCast 638 Transcript

 

Transcript for MuggleCast Episode #638, Nothing About Quidditch Is Fair (GOF Chapter 8, The Quidditch World Cup)


Show Intro


[Show music plays]

Andrew Sims: Welcome to MuggleCast, your weekly ride into the wizarding world fandom. I’m Andrew.

Eric Scull: I’m Eric.

Micah Tannenbaum: I’m Micah.

Laura Tee: And I’m Laura.

Andrew: Grab your Omnioculars and your earplugs, because this week we’re diving into Goblet of Fire Chapter 8, “The Quidditch World Cup.”

Eric: Wooo!

Andrew: First of all, though, thank you to everybody who listens to MuggleCast on Spotify and tagged us in their Wraps. Their Wrappeds? Something like that.

Eric: That second one is correct.

Andrew: We were the top podcast for 1,100 listeners, we were in the top five podcasts for 3,400 people, and we were in the top 10 for 4,800 people.

Laura: Wow.

Andrew: Our top episode of the year – I almost forgot this happened this year – Episode 606, “A Harry Potter TV Reboot is Coming!?”

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: And we theorized and that was a lot of fun. Definitely the biggest news item of the year, right?

Eric and Laura: Yeah.

Eric: [laughs] Right at the beginning.

Andrew: And! We couldn’t do this show without listener support. And to thank listeners, we do two bonus MuggleCast installments on our Patreon every month. These bonus MuggleCast installments will also be coming to the Apple Podcast paid subscription, by the way, starting in 2024. Later this week, we’re going to have a new bonus MuggleCast in which we are looking at 2023 in review, and we’re also going to look ahead to 2024 to see what we can maybe expect for the fandom. I thought this was a slow year, but it actually wasn’t when you look at it at a bird’s eye view. Things did happen.

Laura and Micah: Yeah.

Eric: It went fast for me. [laughs] I feel like, another year is gone already?

Micah: I’m waiting for Andrew’s impression.

Andrew: [imitating Dumbledore] “Another year, gone.”

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: There you go.

Andrew: I was saving it for next week.

Micah: You’re right, though. Between the announcement of the show, Hogwarts Legacy… those two by themselves are big enough, considering we’re not living in a Fantastic Beasts world anymore.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: We’ll talk about that, too, in this bonus MuggleCast. So that’ll be available at Patreon.com/MuggleCast this week.

Laura: Fantastic who? I don’t know her.

[Eric and Micah laugh]

Eric: It was a fantastic Who. Catherine Tate and David Tennant are back. I thought it was fantastic.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Oh, excited for you Whovians. And lastly, don’t forget the MuggleCast overstock store is open; there’s still time to order a MuggleCast gift, or you could ask a loved one to order one for you. Visit MuggleMillennial.Etsy.com to purchase a MuggleCast T-shirt, beanie – which Laura is wearing tonight. How comfy is the beanie tonight, Laura?

Laura: It’s so cozy. It’s very, very cold tonight. And I will also confess, the main reason that I’m wearing it is because we are on camera for this livestream, and I need to wash my hair. It’s a little bit greasy, so this hat is the perfect accessory for tonight’s episode. Makes me look more put together than I am.

Eric: [laughs] Laura, I know that even if you had washed your hair, you would have heavily considered wearing that lovely beanie, wouldn’t you have?

Laura: I would. I would have. Definitely for the finale episode of the year.

Eric: Ooh, yeah.

Andrew: It’s soft, it’s warm; it’s a thick, durable beanie. We’re very happy with it. Actually, I’m currently wearing an In-N-Out hoodie; however, underneath you can see I’m wearing the beige MuggleCast T-shirt.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Andrew: Because I, too, am cold!

Micah: Looks like you were about to expose something there, Andrew.

Andrew: [laughs] No. We’ve made great quality gifts over the years and now’s the opportunity for those of you who aren’t patrons, or maybe those of you who missed out on these gifts, to get them. We highly recommend, though, ordering by December 15, and we will get it in the mail for Christmas. At least, we think; USPS does say their deadline for putting things in the mail to have them arrive before Christmas is December 16, so we will do our best to get these to you before Christmas if you are aiming for that.

Micah: This reminded me that this episode is the penultimate episode of the year. I forget whose favorite word on the show that is; it might be Eric’s.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: No, it’s mine.

Micah: Oh, it’s yours.

Andrew: I think so.

Micah: You can share the word.

Eric: We like the word.

Andrew: So again, MuggleMillennial.Etsy.com. And by purchasing one of these items, not only are you going to love it, but you’re also supporting the show, so we really appreciate that.


Chapter by Chapter: Seven-Word Summary


Andrew: So those are our announcements. And now, let’s get to Chapter by Chapter. And this week, in our penultimate episode – I love that word – we’re discussing Goblet of Fire Chapter 8, “The Quidditch World Cup.” And we’ll start, like we always do, with our seven-word summary.

[Seven-Word Summary music plays]

Eric: Athletes…

Andrew: … compete…

Laura: … vigorously…

Micah: … against…

Eric: … their…

Andrew: [laughs] … formidable…

Eric: Ooh!

Laura: … opponents.

Micah: Wow.

Eric: Yeah!

Andrew: Yes! Yes!

Laura: Look at us!

Micah: This is… penultimate.

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Eric: Eternal glory has just been gotten.

[Seven-Word Summary music ends]

Andrew: I saved you, Laura.

Laura: Thank you, because I was like, “Oh man, this is going to be rough.” But no, Andrew, you saved that at the end. That’s a great sentence.

Andrew: Hooray for adjectives!

Eric: Hooray.

[Laura laughs]


Chapter by Chapter: Main Discussion


Eric: So that leads us into discussing this chapter. And I have to say, I think that the environment is perfectly captured, that of a large sporting event. It is lit. I mentioned earplugs at the top of show – or wrote that for the intro – because they will come in handy. There is so much going on here, and continuing the trend of what we’ve seen in the early chapters of Goblet of Fire, the wizarding world continues to expand. And Harry and crew get up to, it turns out, the top most box, the toppermost of the poppermost box of the Quidditch World Cup. And there they find what Harry thinks is Dobby, and he calls out to him, and it turns out it’s not Dobby. We learn more about house-elves through Winky the house-elf, who it turns out is Barty Crouch’s own elf, who says that she is there to save him his seat. And it’s really through Winky that we get this whole mini part of this chapter, which speaks to classism and other thoughts. So what were our first impressions? Do we remember back what we thought of Winky?

Laura: Well, rereading this, I definitely cringed at Harry’s automatic assumption that it was Dobby.

Andrew: Yes.

Eric: But Laura, it’s okay because she knows Dobby. They all know each other, right? [laughs]

Laura: And then that was the other thing I was like, “Oh my God.” The cultural cringe is embedded in the text, and you can say that for any, I think, phenomenon, movie, book, whatever.

Andrew: Right.

Laura: But the cultural cringe, the unconscious bias, if you will, is just so present in moments like these. It was very hard to read.

Andrew: It was exciting to hear from another house-elf, but I am confused by Harry’s reaction that he would just assume it was Dobby, and it made me wonder, is Dobby the only other house-elf Harry has seen till this moment? Ron says a few pages later – or actually, at the end of this scene – he’s like, “Oh, so that’s what a house-elf is.” So if Harry has seen one between Dobby and Winky, then it wasn’t with Ron. I guess he hasn’t. But it’s still strange to be like, “Oh, a house-elf. That must be Dobby.”

Laura: Right, there’s only one.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Does all the cooking, all the cleaning…

Eric: Yeah, well, that shows what the whole buildup is going to be to house-elves working at Hogwarts, which we know is a huge subplot in this book with Hermione’s arc. And really, it’s surprising that none of the children in their three or four years asked the question, “Where do my clothes go when they get cleaned?” or, “Who takes them?” or anything like that. So it’s interesting that this is all of these 14-year-olds’ first experience with a house-elf.

Andrew: “Who’s making the food I’m eating every day at Hogwarts?”

Laura: Well, and I’ll be honest: Up until the subject of house-elves was really dug into in this book, as a reader, as a child, I always assumed everything was just magic.

Andrew and Eric: Yeah.

Laura: It was all just magic, and things just kind of appeared, and your clothes were just clean when you needed them to be. And I think that in and of itself is a commentary on social systems that rely upon help to complete all of their goings-on around the house. And this idea that the help is seen and not heard, which is very insidious. So I think there’s definitely a commentary going on there where it’s like, the kids were ignorant to it; so were we as readers, because we just weren’t in the position to wonder, “Who is doing this?” And we assumed that it was just magic. And I think in the real world, people can treat it that way. They just expect, if they’re of the social class to have hired help like that… depending – I’m not blanketing here – but just depending, there can be that social element of just expectation that that work is beneath you, and that is somebody else’s job.

Eric: I’m glad you brought up the issue of class, because if you look at the other people that are sharing this top box, it’s the Malfoy family and Crouch himself, Ludo Bagman and Fudge, the Minister of Magic, in fact, the Bulgarian Minister of Magic are there. The Weasleys are a huge long shot compared to all of their much, much higher class compatriots here.

Andrew: But as we now know, it was because Arthur built Ludo a boat in his time of need…

Eric: Yes.

[Micah laughs]

Andrew: … and now he is a member of the upper class.

Micah: What you pointed out here, Eric, is that it’s interesting that there’s a connection of sorts between Winky and Dobby, right? There seems to be some kind of familiarity that exists between the two of them when Harry does mistake her for Dobby. And I’ve always thought of house-elves as being this close-knit community where everybody knows each other. And maybe that’s a mistake on my part, but then I was thinking even further, and we’re talking about, at least in this case, two pure-blood families in the Malfoys and the Crouches. And just knowing how that has come across in the series to date, we would assume that these pure-blood families would have known each other for decades, right? Maybe even centuries. So naturally, their house-elves would have interacted at some point, assuming that Dobby’s family served the Malfoys for generations; Winky’s family did the same. So I think that there would be some kind of relationship that exists between the two of them. Dobby is certainly more of the friendly type. But yeah, that’s what came to mind for me.

Laura: I think that’s fair. I do.

Andrew: Yeah, you can imagine them running into each other at family holiday parties, the Crouches and the Malfoys, or a Ministry party. I don’t know. You could definitely see social events where the Malfoys and the Crouches are in the same place and then that’s when you see the house-elves, because if Winky is showing up to this…

Micah: Now, is she at the far end of the box? Because I can only imagine if Lucius had to sit down next to her what that would have been like.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Eric: She is at the far end of the box.

Micah: She is, okay.

Eric: There’s one seat between her and the wall. But yeah, Winky’s whole behavior speaks to this lower class, especially what Laura was saying about the help and “seen, not heard.” She’s hiding her face. She’s covering her own face. She’s kind of afraid to move it away. Even when she’s engaged with conversation with Harry, she seems to behave as though it would be everyone’s desire for her not to be seen or interacting with them. She’s very downtrodden. But she yet extols this whole virtue of house-elves having this station, that it is their lot, because when the conversation is all about Dobby, she’s talking about how crazy Dobby has gotten and how his freedom is “going to his head.”

Andrew: Aww.

Eric: Harry’s natural question is “How’s Dobby?” She said she knows him. And Winky has some opinions.

Laura: Yeah. And I think, to your point, Eric, about the station that Winky feels like she possesses or that she occupies, the reason she’s covering her face is because she’s terrified of heights. And she’s being forced to reserve Mr. Crouch’s seat in this box, way up at the top of the stadium, and she’s terrified, but she also feels like she has to. She thinks that she’s beholden to that. And that speaks directly to the point that you bring up about her saying “Dobby is getting a big head about himself, he is flying far above his station, and he needs to find a good family and settle down. I’m afraid that he is going to have to go in front of the Department for the Regulation and Control of Magical Creatures.” And it is such an interesting contrast to what we’re going to see with Hermione’s character arc throughout the rest of this book, in observing, as Winky points out to Harry here, that the question of freedom for house-elves is not as black and white as maybe he perceived it to be when he freed Dobby, because it was easy for Harry, a 12-year-old, to free Dobby, because it’s the right thing to do. Why wouldn’t you? But this book really starts to open up some of the more complicated, messy questions, like what contingencies do you have in place for the backlash that an elf is going to receive when they are freed? What contingencies are in place to help that elf be successful and prosper in a society that does not accept the concept of free elves? And it’s really interesting because we see Hermione go all the way to the extreme, very similar to where Harry was a couple years ago, being like, “Yeah, freedom is obviously right,” and we all agree with her, “Yeah, it is,” but there are also a lot of questions and some really valid concerns that I think any house-elf like Winky would have for “What does freedom mean for me?”

Micah: Yeah. The only comparison I can really think of: It’s almost similar to when you have a domesticated animal and it’s released out into the wild. And if it’s not slowly integrated back into the wild, it is inevitably going to die because its ability to adapt is so limited. And I think we see a lot of that with Winky later on in Goblet of Fire when she is released by Crouch. Dobby less so. I think Dobby is a trendsetter.

[Eric laughs]

Micah: I mean, how many house-elves have been set free and go about trying to get work? And not only get work, but wanting to be compensated? I mean, God forbid he get compensated for his work.

Laura: I know.

Andrew: He’s a man who knows what he wants.

Eric: It’s skilled labor. It has a value, it has a monetary value, and he’s asking for it. Yeah.

Micah: And I think it’s fascinating. And we can talk more about this later as we start to meet more house-elves in the series, but in both Winky and in Kreacher, you have two households that were fiercely loyal to younger members of the family in Crouch, Jr. and in Regulus. And then on the flip side, you have somebody like Dobby who is anything but loyal to the Malfoys, so just looking at the behavior of all these different house-elves and how they’ve probably grown to respond to their families over time is just so interesting.

Eric: Yeah, I’m thinking of Hokey the house-elf as well…

Micah: That’s another one.

Laura: Oh, yeah.

Eric: … wasn’t that Hepzibah Smith’s? Because she has a drinking problem, and her house-elf obviously is duty-bound and honor-bound to help her, but then it takes a toll in an entirely different mental… well, I think those three house-elves, Kreacher, Dobby – well, Winky and Hokey are the perfect spectrum of how that all works out. But yeah, just the idea that Dobby would ask for pay. Harry is like, “He should; why shouldn’t he be compensated?” But it’s just this ignorant thing of like, “Well, the world doesn’t necessarily work that way.” I’m sure anyone would want to be freed from working for the Malfoys, though, who, by the way, show up minutes after this conversation, which is so… like you said, asking the question if Lucius had to sit next to Winky. What would he think? What would he say?

Andrew: Don’t bring any socks near her.

Eric: Yeah.

Laura: [laughs] I want to point out something that Justin is pointing out in the Discord, which is that Dobby, his payment that he wants for providing services is not money. It’s socks.

[Eric laughs]

Laura: And this, I think, on its face can come across as kind of, oh, a charming, quirky character-ism, but it is another symptom of this overall cultural problem that even when Dobby does obtain his freedom, the concept of monetary gain just isn’t the first thing his mind goes to when he thinks about charging for his services.

Eric: Oh, that’s a great point. [laughs] Just thinking about the time that I worked for MuggleNet for three years and got a hat out of it.

[Everyone laughs]

Micah: It’s more than most.

Laura: You were like, “You could have at least given me a sock!”

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: No, I wanted the hat. I wanted the hat.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: I think it was Notre Dame.

Micah: You did better than some, Eric. Just throwing that out there.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Micah: Some of us wrote a book and didn’t get anything.

Eric: Oh my God.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Is there a larger question to deal with? We talked about the higher class occupants of this booth. But there’s this tense moment between Arthur and Lucius, and the Minister is there; Fudge very happily proclaims that Lucius just gave this bunch of gold to St. Mungo’s, and Arthur is forced, because of professional courtesy, to say “Oh, nice.” But then Lucius turns around and completely insults Arthur, asking him what he did to get these good seats, and selling his house surely wouldn’t be enough. And it’s just this complete classism that’s happening here, coupled with the house-elf thing that’s going on in this otherwise very action-packed chapter. What is this chapter trying to say about these themes, really?

Micah: I mean, to me, it’s not something that is really uncommon in the Muggle world too, right? We’ve probably all seen things like this or maybe even experienced it ourselves. There’s this really strong feeling that the Weasleys are just visiting a place that the Malfoys regularly frequent.

Eric: Oh.

Micah: And I feel for them in this moment in particular. But I will say, in terms of if we were to take the 10,000 foot view of this and spin it more to a positive end, I think it can show the unifying aspect of sport, right? That’s something that is often talked about, because you’re able to bring people together from so many different walks of life to enjoy a game like this. And if you look at… Eric, you rattled off who was in the box earlier, but you have two pure-blood families in the Weasleys and the Malfoys, three if you want to count the Crouches; you have a half-blood in Harry; a Muggle-born in Hermione; you have a house-elf in Winky; and you have a couple of Ministers for Magic and other dignitaries. It’s really a odd group of individuals to all have in one place. [laughs] But they are all there to watch the Quidditch World Cup and they don’t get into fisticuffs, really; they just kind of put their differences aside and enjoy the match.

Andrew: Another lesson of this chapter is that you actually can buy your way into high profile events like this.

Micah: Of course.

Andrew: We hear from Fudge that Lucius bought his way in. He didn’t say those words, but he said, “Lucius has just given a very generous contribution to St. Mungo’s.”

Eric: Right.

Andrew: Does Lucius suddenly care about the hospital? No, he wanted to buy his way in to the Quidditch World Cup. That’s all he did that for.

Eric: Just like he did with the brooms to get Draco on the Quidditch team.

Andrew: Right.

Eric: Bribing is totally… because they’re there as Fudge’s guests, personal guests, as a result of that donation. So there you go.

Andrew: Yes. But that area’s kind of glossed over; that’s one of those things you might read the first time as a kid and you don’t really notice it, but then after, you’re like, “Oh, okay, he just bought his way in. That’s all that was.”

Eric: Yeah, I mean, honestly, I don’t blame early eagle-eyed fans for thinking that there was then some kind of untoward lean to St. Mungo’s. If Lucius Malfoy is their biggest patron, which is not said that he is, but if the kind of people that are donating there are Death Eaters, former and present, then you should question whether the hospital exists to make people better or not.

Micah: Or so they can sneak things in later on in the series.

Eric: That doesn’t bode well, I don’t think.

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: No, it doesn’t. Well done.

Laura: I don’t know. I think we can see examples even in today’s day and age of people, whose morals we might question, throw their money around to good causes to make them look like maybe they have better manners than they do. And I mean, also, I have to imagine… I don’t know what taxes look like in the wizarding world…

[Eric laughs]

Laura: … but that’s a big thing people do, at least here in the States, is make some pretty massive charitable contributions for the tax write-off.

Micah: Yeah, and the Malfoys are definitely there – at least Lucius is – as a status symbol, whereas the Weasleys are there, Harry is there, to enjoy the match, right? Harry and Ron in particular are just super excited to even have this opportunity. I’m sure they wouldn’t care where they sat in that stadium; just the fact that they’re there is exciting.

Eric: So I want to talk about the actual Quidditch World Cup game, and something that stood out to me absolutely is the complete mayhem caused during this game by the mascots that are brought here. I mean, it’s something I, of course, remember from the match, but something that really takes the front seat and lasts the whole match. I mean, the pandemonium that is set off by both the leprechauns making rude gestures with their formations and the Veela just by their nature, and by some of their actions that we’re going to detail, really are disastrous. It’s like if the Chicago Bears brought actual bears to a football game and let them loose on the field.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Eric: Seriously, it’s nuts, the idea that these wizarding teams have creatures that are emblematic of their home country, but which do not necessarily behave themselves and are allowed to basically storm the field.

Micah: I’m so glad you said that, Eric, though, because not all mascots are just dressed up in costume and cute little furry things that kids want to take pictures with. They are actual animals in the Muggle world, so this isn’t that much of a stretch, and we get careless too. And I put a video – we can put it in the show notes – of Bevo from the University of Texas, and Uga, who is a bulldog from the University of Georgia. They met a couple of years ago in the Sugar Bowl, and Bevo was not having any of Uga, let’s just say that. I don’t know if y’all want to watch the video.

Eric: I can’t wait to.

Andrew: I watched it.

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Andrew: It’s hard to watch because the commentators are like, “Oh, man, that was so cool! I want to watch that happen again.” But the dog’s life was threatened!

Eric: Not Bevo and Uga at the Sugar Bowl! [laughs] I love sports.

Laura: As someone who grew up in Georgia, to hear someone that I’m friends with in another state mention Uga did something to my brain.

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Laura: It was just weird. It was a weird worlds colliding moment. [laughs]

Micah: But what’s so great about it is you literally think it would have been the other way around, but it’s actually… you would think it would be the bulldog going after the longhorn, but it’s actually the longhorn going after the bulldog.

Andrew: Oh, that doesn’t surprise me at all. [laughs]

Eric: So imagine that you have any of these fantastic beasts – or magical beings or creatures, however they choose to classify or are classified arbitrarily by wizards – imagine those being let loose on a good day, not in the most prime sporting event of every four years or whatever it is. And it’s just complete pandemonium. In fact, I’m blown away by the safety concerns, which shouldn’t, at this point, surprise any of us that the wizards are so carefree about safety. But the thing about the Veela in particular, as Bulgaria’s mascots that they bring there, the Veela have an effect, an immediate entrancing effect on presumably every male in the stadium, and nobody was adequately prepared for it. The big thing that happens, to me, to point out is that Harry feels that he immediately needs to do something impressive. These are the most beautiful, questionably human women that he’s ever seen in his life, and he needs to impress them. How is he going to do it? Well, the first thing that comes to mind is that he has to jump out of the top box at the Quidditch World Cup and plummet into the stadium below. He doesn’t have his broom with him. He doesn’t know the Summoning Charm. He has to…

Andrew: He turns into a zombie. He’s just like, [in a droning voice] “Lady. Beautiful lady.”

Eric: Yeah, and when he comes to, Hermione is pulling him back because one of his legs is against the wall of the box. He literally had gotten to his feet and jumped up. And it’s like, “If they stop singing and dancing, something terrible is going to happen.” That’s all Harry knows in his mind. Multiply that by 50 or 60,000, assuming the genders of the men in the audience. Wow, this is insane.

Micah: Look, I mean, Barty Crouch, Jr. could have ended it all right there. We wouldn’t even have needed to have a fourth book.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Eric: Given him an extra push. [laughs]

Laura: It made me wonder if it was insinuating that while Veela in this universe definitely target men – right, men are the ones that are attracted to them – I think it’s amiss that we didn’t see any women getting a little bit flustered, if you will. [laughs] But I think it’s interesting because we see Mr. Weasley grinning about this because he knows what’s going on, and it feels like a commentary maybe on teenage hormones. But given the vast reaction from the rest of the stadium, it makes me wonder if it also is a commentary on drunkenness. I have to imagine being at a big sporting event like this, a lot of these people are drunk, and when you reach that level of inebriation, the filter between your brain and your mouth kind of goes away; you lose all inhibition. And I think that would probably make a grown man more likely to react to the Veela in this way. It’s a vulnerability thing, in a way. They don’t think they’re vulnerable, but they are.

Andrew: And Kelsey in the Discord said, “Is it only straight men who are affected? Would Dumbledore be affected by the Veela? What about lesbians?” So there is a line or two from Hermione when she’s seeing what Harry is doing, and she says, “Harry, what are you doing?” And then a couple lines later, she pulls Harry back and she goes, “Honestly.” So it doesn’t seem to be affecting her and presumably most straight women there. Lesbians, presumably, yes, it would be affecting them.

Eric: This is the next generation Thestral test that we play on the crowd of figuring out who can see them, who can’t, who would be affected by Veela, who wouldn’t…

Andrew: Yeah. Dumbledore would be affected, but he would just be going, “Yas, queen, yas, work it.”

[Eric and Micah laugh]

Eric: Honestly, this chapter… and I love whenever we ask the question, “Is it analogous to” sports fans or things like that. Is this a commentary on how aggressive men get at sporting matches? Possibly, right? I for one was thinking, bringing these very attractive female-presenting creatures out, is that a commentary on cheerleading? On cheerleaders? And how the Dallas Cowboys have an attractive bunch of… I mean, they’re known for having an attractive group of cheerleaders. But the other thing that it made me think of was Greek mythology.

Andrew: Ooh. Cheerleaders in Greek mythology.

Eric: [laughs] I decided to look up the Veela and figure out where the origins might be, and it turns out that Veela are actually very real. “The word ‘Veela’ is an Anglicization of the Slavic term ‘Vila.’ Veela are described as fairy or nymph-like creatures in Slavic mythology, who live in bodies of water and have power and the ability over storms. They may be the ghosts of women who drowned, especially those who were betrayed by their lovers.” And so I’m sensing a theme here that they may be similar to either harpies or sirens from Greek myth, if you guys know your Odyssey.

Laura: I was thinking about the siren comparison for sure.

Micah: Yeah, especially given how the men behave.

Eric: Yeah, harpies are more birdlike, but later in the match, the Veela sprout wings, so there is something birdlike about them. But the sirens in particular… Arthur Weasley says, “Cover your ears” later in the game. Everyone is covering their ears to prevent the effects. Odysseus actually has wax that he puts in his ears, and he commands all of his men wear it and he prevents the… he ties himself to the mast of his ship, so that he doesn’t… and he forbids all of his men from rowing to shore, despite how he’s going to command them to untie him. So it’s a big deal to avoid these things. And yet, they’re thrust upon an unsuspecting populace in the whole people of… I just think some mascots maybe should have been banned.

Andrew: Yeah, well, I guess just what bugs me – and Micah and I have a point to tag team – the point of the Veela and the leprechauns almost seems to be winning the crowd over to get the crowd on the side of the team that the mascots are representing. The Veela, it’s making all the men H-word.

Micah: Horny.

Andrew: Yes.

Micah: You can say it. That’s an okay word.

Andrew: And then with the leprechauns, they’re paying the crowd! They’re paying the crowd off with gold!

Eric: With golf ball-sized gold. [laughs] I mean, you know how much damage hail does?

Andrew: Right.

Eric: The audience is hit with falling gold coins.

Andrew: And then Ron is paying Harry back the debts that he is owed. [laughs]

Eric: This is chaos. Both teams’ mascots are only bound to cause such chaos. And obviously, it’s funny. It’s enjoyable. But what the heck were organizers thinking?

Micah: They weren’t! It’s Ludo!

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: Yeah, it’s Ludo.

Micah: That’s what you have to remember at the end of the day. But what I think is so fascinating is that both mascots are not what they appear to be, in the sense that on the surface level, we know the Veela are masked by their looks; the leprechauns are masked by their money because the money isn’t real either. I mean, think about how pissed off you would be if you’re at a sporting event and you got the T-shirt toss, but then when you went home, the T-shirt disappeared. You wouldn’t like that, would you?

Eric: No. I mean, I’m only paying for my drinks at the stadium with leprechaun gold, because that they can’t take away from me.

Micah: But if you come with me, you get the drinks for free, as well as the tickets. Right, Eric?

[Eric and Micah laugh]

Micah: We didn’t know that. We found that out thanks to our our neighbor, who was next to us at the Bulls game. But anyway.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Yeah, so again, just going back to Veelas’ origin in history. Here’s two more excerpts I pulled from Wiki: “Vila are usually friendly to people, but they can take horrible revenge on those who insult them, disregard their orders, or uninvitedly, approached their circle dance,” and “Within the Czech tradition, Vily are almost always malicious, unless respected and avoided. They are portrayed as beautiful women with long flowing hair, who primarily live in the woods, marshes, or forest clearings. They are said to try to entrance men, who wander into their land, by their looks and beautiful voices.” So yeah, definitely woodland and water-based fairy creatures from the Slavic regions. Spot on.

Laura: And to that note, did anyone else remember that Veela are native to Bulgaria? Obviously, I remember them being here in this chapter, but I think I had forgotten that Veela are actually from Bulgaria in this series; I think because Fleur is French, I somewhere along the way decided that Veela were French, but they’re not. [laughs]

Eric: That’s right!

Micah: Yeah, that’s a really good point.

Andrew: I had forgotten that too, yeah. Also, another thing that bothers me about these mascots: They are used as a distraction as the game progresses, which seems totally unfair, and that’s not what Quidditch is about. Let me just read you a quick passage. “The leprechauns had risen into the air again, and this time, they formed a giant hand, which was making a very rude sign indeed at the Veela across the field.”

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: “At this, the Veela lost control. Instead of dancing, they launched themselves across the field and began throwing what seemed to be handfuls of fire at the leprechauns.” I mean, come on. How is this allowed?

Micah: It’s Bevo and Uga all over again.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Is the Quidditch game not exciting enough? It is!

Micah: Well, eh.

Laura: Well, Andrew, where I think you’re wrong is when you said, “This isn’t fair.” Quidditch isn’t fair. Nothing about Quidditch is fair.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Andrew: Wizards. Love. Chaos.

Laura: They do.

Micah: It’s true, though. If I was trying to find a real world comparison that’s not a longhorn and a bulldog going after each other, [laughs] I thought about… you know when you have those moments where a fan runs onto the field or a fan runs onto the court and it’s just complete chaos as security tries to chase them down? I don’t know if it’s an exact comparison. Or maybe when teams get into all-out brawls with each other.

Andrew: Yeah, well, okay, but in the Muggle world, during sporting events, you attend one; you’ll hear chants and music play in between batter swings, in between plays; they always cut the music before the play begins. If the mascots want to be having fun during breaks in the Quidditch game – which, admittedly, there don’t seem to be many, but they could probably squeeze some in somewhere – that’s okay. That would be fine. But this is going on as the gameplay is happening.

Eric: Yeah, it’s interference… from mascots. [laughs]

Andrew: Yes.

Micah: Well, I think if we’re going back to our conversation earlier with house-elves, it just goes to show you, they don’t control the creatures of the wizarding world. They’re their own individuals that can do what they want.

Andrew: But then they shouldn’t be allowed to attend these games.

Micah: Blame Ludo!

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Eric: Yeah. I mean, “Blame Ludo” is very easy, but yeah. There is some kind of national recognition that the countries themselves are being recognized, right? Ireland is very proud to be there; on behalf of Ireland they brought leprechauns, they brought Irish things, and a lot of their people. Same with Bulgaria. So this idea that the mascots are there representing their country, but they’re also their own group, is very interesting because then these fights break out that’s more to do with… honestly, it all just disguises the fact that Bulgaria gets clobbered point-wise. Bulgaria is so, so well beaten by… Harry is very impressed by Ireland’s Chasers’ flying, but yeah, it’s just a crazy way to add to the already existing craziness in the chapter, and otherwise, a pretty well-written Quidditch match that goes by so fast that Harry can’t use the slow down setting on his Omnioculars, and before you know it, it’s over.

Andrew: Yeah, Eric, as listeners probably know, you are leading today’s discussion. I was actually surprised you didn’t really focus on the game itself in our main discussion today.

Eric: Yeah, but I know we have a lot of odds and ends to talk about, mostly as a result of that.

Andrew: We sure do. I’m having a very big sportbro year, so maybe that’s why I noticed the lack of actual Quidditch talk.

[Eric and Micah laugh]

Eric: Well, please, no, take her away. It’s just, we all know what happens in the thing, and I figured…

Micah: If folks haven’t seen your Instagram, Andrew, it’s quite impressive, all the sporting events you’ve been to the last couple of months.

Andrew: Oh my gosh. Thank you, Micah. The guy who works in sports says I’m quite impressive. What can I say?

Eric: Meanwhile, I thought to reel you in, I’d have to compare the Quidditch World Cup to a Bruce Springsteen concert or something.

Andrew: [laughs] I went to plenty of those too this year.

Eric: Pretty wild in those crowds.

Andrew: It’s been a great year for me. I’m living.

[Laura and Micah laugh]

Andrew: But yeah, so Micah, well, I didn’t hear Instagram.com/AndrewSims. That was it. I just wanted to make sure you said that.


Odds & Ends


Andrew: So yeah, odds and ends. At the beginning of the chapter, Arthur says that there are Muggle-Repelling Charms on the Quidditch World Cup stadium, and if a Muggle approaches, they’ll remember an urgent appointment and dash away. I was wondering, when and how does that wear off? Because I’m imagining it wears off and then they go back to where the Quidditch World Cup is, and then they remember and are going to go back out again. Is it just this endless loop where they’re going back and forth between two places? And also, why wasn’t something like this used on the campsites?

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: We were talking about this last week. This seems like a good way to get the Muggles away.

Laura: That was the first thing I wondered when reading this chapter. Like, literally, y’all are using it in the same sort of proximity and you didn’t think to use it at the campsites?

Andrew: Right.

Laura: No, we’re just going to Obliviate this poor Muggle ten times a day.

Eric: They get it even worse next chapter, too; it’s awful. I had forgotten about that. It is next chapter. But yeah, the Muggles are just an afterthought. Like everything else, blame Ludo, blame the government… I mean, it’s on the stadium but not on the campgrounds. I can’t make sense of it.

Andrew: Another Quidditch-related note I had: This game, this particular match, is an example – I’m sorry – of why people say Quidditch is stupid. Peace and love, peace and love. That you can end the game when you’re behind should not be allowed. That’s ridiculous. Harry says Krum caught the Snitch because “he knew they were never going to catch up. The Irish Chasers were too good… he wanted to end it on his terms, that’s all.” That’s Harry’s quote.

Eric: I respect the way that this game ends, if Harry is right and that’s why Krum did it. You see this game that is, apart from the mascots, devolving into chaos and violence; the Beaters start using their clubs to hit players directly, not even Bludgers anymore; and the acrimonious relationship between the two teams is completely devolving. So somebody like Krum, who’s a natural leader, who’s somebody worthy of the Goblet of Fire choosing him for the Triwizard Cup, is going to naturally see that his team, his country, is not represented in the best light, and he’s going to do everything in his power to end it before things get even worse.

Micah: Yeah, I agree. And I think if we’re to look, though, at the math, which I know we always have fun doing on this show – I wish that Nicole and Lexi were here because they did a much better job of it last week…

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Micah: … but I believe the score is only a ten-point differential, right, once Krum catches the Snitch, so it’s not like they were down by such a huge margin, catching the Snitch notwithstanding. But if Krum would have just waited – and you don’t know how the game would have played itself out, so we can’t presume – but if they were just to score twice more and Krum caught the Snitch, the game would have gone in favor of Bulgaria. So that’s where I wonder, but I do agree with what you’re saying, Eric; I definitely think he wanted to do it on his own terms. And the match was just devolving, like you said. But I did think that J.K. Rowling did take the opportunity to make this the Quidditch moment of the book, as we won’t get any for the remainder of Goblet of Fire. And even into Order of the Phoenix, right, once Umbridge enacts her Educational Decree, so we are Quidditchless for a good period of time before Half-Blood Prince. So she went all out, because I would say, I think for as hard as it has been for her to write that, and she’s been outspoken about that, she did a pretty good job.

Eric and Laura: Yeah.

Eric: And it’s like, Quidditch is not timed. That’s the other thing. So in the absence of timing, you do need an ending, a big game-ending thing like 150 points to catch the Snitch. So that’s why I think Quidditch, unlike football, basketball, everything, is like, okay, because they have the Snitch instead. They have this huge point gain instead. So you’re, as a Quidditch fan, either watching what the Chasers, Beater, and Keeper are all up to, or you’re watching the Seeker.

Micah: Yeah. One other moment that stood out to me was from Cornelius Fudge, when he was trying at times in the box to interact with the Bulgarian Minister for Magic, because he presumed… I’m going to go out on a limb and assume that Fudge never actually made an attempt to even ask him if he spoke English. And then, surprise, at the very end of this chapter he does, and he congratulates his team on the effort that they put forth. And it kind of reminded me of your traditional xenophobic moment, “You stupid American,” in this case, “You stupid Brit,” for not really making an effort, just assuming because they’re from another country that they don’t know your language or they don’t know your customs, and it speaks to Fudge’s character in this series.

Laura: Right. I agree for sure. There’s a definite superiority complex at play and kind of an ethnocentrism, too, at play that is 100% in Fudge’s character. Onto something a little less nefarious than that, though, the Omnioculars. We learn pretty quickly that Harry actually can’t be watching the match and slowing it down and rewinding, because this match is going by quick, like Eric said earlier. But something that I thought was really cool about these is they’re able to highlight the names of plays on their instant replay, which is cool. There are these blue bubble letters that were coming up to describe the names of plays, and one of the plays that I had forgotten about that is kind of horrifying is… I forget the name of it, but it’s the one where the Seeker effectively pretends to see the Snitch and dive bombs towards the ground to lure the other Seeker also towards the ground.

Eric: That’ll be the Wronski Feint.

Laura: Yes, that’s right. Thank you. The Wronski Feint. Pulling out of it at the last moment and causing the other Seeker to just go boom into the ground.

Eric: Listen, that’s hilarious because the Omnioculars even have a disclaimer for that one. It’s their equivalent of “Do not try this at home.”

[Laura and Micah laugh]

Eric: Like, “Widely controversial Seeker thing” is what it says behind it. All the other plays listed are just the name of the play, but this one says that it’s pretty dangerous. [laughs]

Micah: Yeah. And what I just really loved about these moments was that it was pure joy of Harry loving Quidditch.

Eric: “I love Quidditch.”

[Everyone laughs]

Micah: He didn’t say that. But it’s…

Andrew: That’s coming in the TV show. “I love Quidditch.”

Micah: That’s in the TV show. But it’s just very cool to see him getting a chance to study the game that he clearly is very good at himself.

Andrew: “Study the game.” That’s an interesting way to put it. I do think the Omnioculars are very cool, in particular for this feature that you called out, Laura, and I will revisit this in MVP of the Week.

Eric: I did wonder… knowing that Winky is not alone in the press box, this was the chance to really see and observe Harry Potter for Barty Crouch, Jr. prior to Hogwarts, prior to Barty Crouch serving as Mad-Eye Moody this year, which is obviously a nefarious Death Eater plot. And if I’m remembering correctly, Barty Crouch, Jr. is actually under his father’s Imperius Curse right now, so he can’t necessarily give Harry that extra kick out of the box like we suggested earlier. But what must Barty Crouch have been thinking? Because Barty Crouch, Jr.’s and Harry’s relationship is a really, I want to say, series unique one. Harry gets a lot of, I think, genuine lessons out of Barty Crouch, Jr. So knowing that, what do we imagine is Barty Crouch, Jr.’s take on what’s going on in this chapter?

Andrew: I wonder if he got fooled by the Veelas.

[Laura and Micah laugh]

Eric: He nearly jumped out of his Invisibility Cloak and… yeah.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: He’s seen it all before.

Andrew: His leg popped out.

[Eric laughs]

Micah: I was thinking that this may be one of the more outrageous security nightmares in the entire book. So basically, you’re telling me that anybody with an Invisibility Cloak, or the ability to turn themselves invisible, can just walk into the Quidditch World Cup. There’s no security.

Eric: Well, maybe Crouch, Sr. snuck him in.

Micah: I’m assuming that’s how it happened.

Eric: In his tent. He packed up the tent, the kid’s in the tent, they open up the tent, surprise.

Micah: I’m sure we’ll get more information on that as the book goes on. But what if somebody accidentally tripped over Barty? What if somebody sat on top of him? Imagine the chaos that would ensue inside the box. I mean, good thing Dumbledore wasn’t there, because Dumbledore can see through Invisibility Cloaks.

Eric: Right, anyone could cast Homenum Revelio and it would show up. The fact that Barty is on the end of the bench makes it more dangerous, because people would naturally go into that row in order to like, “Okay, sorry, Winky. Can you stand up?” So you’re right; it’s a pretty big security thing.

Andrew: Well, and even if Sr. did sneak Jr. in, you would think there would be additional security protocols to keep an eye out for somebody sneaking in. Dark detectors, if you will. Something that Crouch, Sr. wouldn’t have been able to sneak by because it’s a wider net, detection net, stadium wide, something like that.

Micah: It’s another Ludo Bagman special.

[Eric laughs]

[“It’s starting to sound like a security nightmare!” sound effect plays with sirens]

Eric: There it is. Hey, I just had one other thought going back to Bagman, who we know is this world-renowned Quidditch player. Seeing Krum move and do his thing in this chapter is very exciting. We mentioned that Harry falls in love with Quidditch again, kind of, in this chapter; it really reaffirms it. I would have liked to have seen somewhere in the Triwizard Tournament… knowing of the plot of this book, knowing that Harry and Krum are both champions, I really would have liked to have seen them face off together directly on broomstick. Wouldn’t that have actually been pretty cool if later in the book Harry has to directly race Krum on a broom, given that he observes him so deftly during this game?

Andrew and Micah: That would be cool.

Andrew: A little exhibition match.

Eric: International Quidditch star… yeah, or just challenging each other, like a banter kind of thing that develops in between two tasks.

Andrew: Yeah!

Micah: You may get to do that in the new Quidditch video game. I’m sure you can pick certain characters to play with.

Eric: Oh, that’s what I’m looking forward to in 2024.


MVP of the Week


Andrew: All right, well, that is the chapter. And with that, let’s move on to MVP of the Week.

[MVP of the Week music plays]

Andrew: And as I set up a couple minutes ago, I’m going to give it to the Omnioculars for all of their features. The Quidditch play details, the instant replay, slowing time down… very cool tech. And the reason I wanted to call it out is because I feel like one day we could probably see something like this in the Muggle world. We have augmented reality and smart glasses. Something like this will exist in the Muggle world one day.

Eric: And I’m going to give it to Viktor Krum. Again, think he’s a cool guy, but for doing the hard thing and bringing this disastrous Quidditch match to an end.

Laura: I’m going to give it to the leprechauns for being an absolute mood.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Laura: I felt so seen reading over the leprechauns.

Andrew: Really!

Laura: Yeah, you know me; I’m known to make a rude gesture here and there.

Andrew: Oh. Yes, I’ve got photos of those.

[Micah laughs]

Laura: I felt a kinship with them. [laughs]

Andrew: I see.

Micah: And I’m going to give it to Oblansk, the Bulgarian Minister for Magic, for owning Fudge and providing some much needed laughter at the end of the chapter.

[MVP of the Week music ends]

Andrew: If you have any feedback about today’s discussion, you can contact us by emailing or sending a voice memo recorded on your phone to MuggleCast@gmail.com, or by using our phone number, which is 1-920-3-MUGGLE. That’s 1-920-368-4453. Next week, our final episode of the year, though we will also release a bonus MuggleCast to the public over our winter break. But this will be the final new episode of the year. It’ll be Chapter by Chapter once more; Goblet of Fire Chapter 9, “The Dark Mark.”


Quizzitch


Andrew: And now it’s time for our weekly trivia game, Quizzitch.

[Quizzitch music plays]

Eric: Last week’s question: What broomstick does Harry see advertised as being for all the family at the Quidditch World Cup? The correct answer is the Bluebottle. Bluebottle, room for all the family. Wonder how that worked, if all the family fits on it or what? But correct answers were submitted by Justice for cat ladies; Micah the Reddit virgin; Arthur Weasley’s libido…

[Laura and Micah laugh]

Eric: … Hufflepuff Andrew fan; Hogsmeade fashion capital of the world; Callie loves Quizzitch; Bulgaria’s moral victory; Andrew’s vibrating broomstick is a broom for all the family…

Andrew: Aww.

Eric: … Ahoy, wishing y’all no Crouchie Ouchies this holiday season…

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: … Albus burstblipple wolf freak bran muffin dumpfulltruck, Shnorder of Shmerlin first supreme mugwump wizard man… ooh. And Grace the 13-year-old Slytherin; Neville the snake slayer; Dudley’s poor PlayStation; Insert completely unhinged name here; Ahoy y’all; a healthy breeze – no, the healthy breeze around Archie’s privates.

[Laura and Micah laugh]

Eric: And finally, somebody who wrote “I’m afraid all the answers for this I can think of reference The Goon Show, which may be a bit niche for US audiences, as in, ‘He’s fallen in the water.'” Yeah, Goon Show is a deep throwback. So congratulations to all of the winners and more, and here is next week’s question: In what book does Hermione learn about Beauxbatons Academy of Magic? Submit your answer to us on the MuggleCast website, MuggleCast.com/Quizzitch, or click on “Quizzitch” if you’re on the website already via the main nav.

Andrew: Less than a week, less than a week, less than a week! To visit MuggleMillennial.Etsy.com and get one-of-a-kind MuggleCast and Millennial podcast items from our overstock store. These are great holiday gifts to add to your wish list or for the MuggleCast fan in your life. So there’s less than a week to order and have it there in time for Christmas, so please, with peace and love, peace and love, place those orders now, or ask Santa to place those orders now. You can also visit MuggleCast.com for transcripts, social media links, our full episode archive, our favorite episodes, and to contact us. By the way, one of our Quizzitch players was “Ahoy y’all”; well, there’s been an update to the contact page and the form.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: If you are enjoying MuggleCast and think other Muggles would too – maybe some of your friends want some more Harry Potter friends in their lives – we’re here for y’all. Tell a friend about the show. We’d also appreciate it if you left us a review in your favorite podcast app. Last but not least, visit Patreon.com if you want to support the show and receive early access to the show, ad-free episodes, bonus episodes, yearly physical gifts, and a lot more. We couldn’t do this without your support. So thank you; whether you support us at Patreon.com/MuggleCast or through the Apple Podcasts paid subscription, we really, really, really appreciate it. So that does it. Don’t forget, we’re going to have a new bonus MuggleCast out later this week in which we are doing a year in review looking at what happened over the past year in the Harry Potter fandom and also a 2024 preview, and maybe we’ll make some predictions. So that’s it. Thanks, everybody, for listening. I’m Andrew.

Eric: I’m Eric.

Micah: I’m Micah.

Laura: And I’m Laura.

Andrew: Bye everyone.

Laura and Micah: Bye.

Transcript #637

 

MuggleCast 637 Transcript

 

Transcript for MuggleCast Episode #637, Crouchy Ouchy (GOF Chapter 7, Bagman and Crouch) feat. Fantasy Fangirls


Show Intro


[Show music plays]

Andrew Sims: Welcome to MuggleCast, your weekly ride into the wizarding world fandom. I’m Andrew.

Eric Scull: I’m Eric.

Micah Tannenbaum: I’m Micah.

Laura Tee: And I’m Laura.

Andrew: Grab your plainest clothing, because this week we are journeying to the Quidditch World Cup undercover and meeting Ludo the gambling man when we discuss Chapter 7 of Goblet of Fire, “Bagman and Crouch.” And we have a supersized panel this week; two amazing guests with us. They are the hosts of Fantasy Fangirls – very popular podcast currently discussing Fourth Wing and Iron Flame, a very popular book series – Nicole and Lexi. Welcome, Nicole and Lexi.

Lexi: Thank you! Thank you so much for having us.

Nicole: Thank you for having us!

Andrew: It is a pleasure. Actually, having you two on is kind of surreal for me because I got into Fourth Wing, and then I went into Fourth Wing TikTok and I started seeing your videos all the time, then I looked at your podcast. We know somebody mutually, actually, as luck would have it. And then here you are. So this is just very exciting to have you both on.

Lexi: That’s so exciting. I am an OG Harry Potter fan, and I actually think that MuggleCast was the very, very first podcast that I listened to. I don’t even know if I knew it was a podcast back then. But this is just the absolute dream come true, and thank you so much for having us.

Nicole: I didn’t know that.

Andrew: Well, thank you. Yes, Lexi is going to prove just how big of a Harry Potter fan she is in a few minutes.

Lexi: For me, the audiobook is my comfort thing. I listen to a Harry Potter audiobook every single night as I fall asleep.

Laura: Aww.

Andrew: I love that.

Lexi: And I have very young children, and so it’s a wonderful thing to keep me company when I’m nursing in the evenings or whatever that might be, in the middle of the night there.

Andrew: That’s amazing. So tell us about your podcast, Fantasy Fangirls.

Lexi: So Nicole and I, we do very deep dives, very similar to MuggleCast is doing right now with Goblet of Fire. And so we are currently taking… well, we did take Fourth Wing. We covered that in September and October. And now that Iron Flame came out earlier this month in November, we are covering that. We’re just about to release Episode 3. And we are just digging into every single morsel, all the foreshadowing, tons of theories. It is an unfinished book series, so that’s one of the big things about it, is there are so many fun theories, so many easter eggs, and Nicole and I are absolutely all about them. We pull in a lot of character analysis, helping people navigate through the hangover that is Iron Flame – if you know, you know – and the community has just been absolutely incredible. We only started a podcast about two and a half months ago, and it just grew overnight. It’s absolutely both overwhelming and exciting in the best way possible.

Nicole: Overwhelming is a really good word for it, but in the best way, yes.

Andrew: Yeah. Well, probably thanks in part to TikTok, right? I guess that’s how a lot of the listeners are finding you, like I did. [laughs]

Lexi: Yes, so in fact, on day one we had our very, very first TikTok of a podcast clip. And we just posted it to TikTok – we had, like, zero followers – and it went viral, and that is how it all started. So from that very first viral TikTok video.

Nicole: We’ve basically been very fortunate to not stop going viral for the last ten weeks, and a lot of people have really rallied around the podcast and shared it with their friends. And since it is such a hot topic right now, I think so many people are loud and proud about it. And they needed an outlet of someone else who is just as passionate about it as they are, and we were the hangover cure that a lot of people have called us. But it’s been the best ten weeks of our lives. It’s been absolutely insane.

Micah: When you were talking about theorizing and character analysis, it gave me a bit of nostalgia because that’s really how we all got started with MuggleCast back in the day.

Andrew: Absolutely.

Nicole: Yeah, I love it. I love it so much.

Andrew: So tell us, why is Fourth Wing so popular? I’ve read it. I imagine Micah, Eric, and Laura are going to read it at some point because I think it’s too hot to avoid.

Laura: I’m reading it right now. What are you talking about?

Andrew: Oh, okay, great. I’m sure many of our listeners have read this book by now. There’s really no avoiding it online, I don’t think. What do you think has made Fourth Wing so popular so far?

Nicole: I think the big thing is people compare it to either… it’s almost an amalgamation of Harry Potter for the school aspect, Game of Thrones for politics and dragons, and then another very popular fantasy series, A Court of Thorns and Roses, for the romance aspect. Romantasy has been a huge up-and-coming genre recently and I think that this just hit every single marker, but it’s also been called the gateway drug to romantasy world. It’s a very contemporary language. And the book is built around and expands on the magical world as you go deeper into it, very Harry Potter-esque if you… we’re in Book 4 as we’re on this podcast; we’re diving into more and more of the world, and that is definitely how Iron Flame is going. It’s just expanding, expanding, expanding. So I think there’s so much familiarity for a lot of readers, and I think that’s one of the major reasons it got so popular so fast. Also, it’s a huge representation book: The main character has Ehlers-Danlos, which is a chronic illness; the male main character is POC; we have a lot of lesbian, gay, bisexual characters. There’s so much representation all in this, and I think people were really starving for something in this world to have such high representation. And it just took off.

Andrew: Yeah, it really did. All the representation is nice to see. And by the way, for our younger listeners, there is some adult language and activities happening in this book…

Nicole: Oh, yeah. [laughs]

Laura: True.

Andrew: … so you may want to ask your parents if Fourth Wing is right for you.

Lexi: Yes, yes. And the podcast as well, on that note too.

[Andrew and Lexi laugh]

Andrew: Lexi, I haven’t seen something get as close to becoming the next Harry Potter in a really long time. It really does seem like this story is unique. Have you been getting those spidey senses as well?

Lexi: I get more of a Twilight sense with this, and that’s saying that I was not a big Twilight fan. I wasn’t super into that. But I do get that a little bit more because it is a little bit more niche. Harry Potter, it’s so ingrained in pop culture. Every single person knows their Hogwarts House. We have Universal Studios and Harry Potter World, and just all of that, and I definitely don’t see any book series, not just this one, getting to that level. Now, of course, Fourth Wing is going to be a TV series; I’m super excited about that. So I do see it definitely really being mainstream, but for it to be ingrained in our pop culture, I don’t know if I’d quite take it that far. And that’s also me just being such a OG Harry Potter fan that I just don’t know if anything could ever quite compare to it.

Eric: Yeah, it’d be hard to imagine, but even Harry Potter started off somewhere.

Lexi: That is very true.

Andrew: To that point, we didn’t think Harry Potter was the next Harry Potter after Chamber of Secrets came out. It took a while. And one reason I’m so bullish on Fourth Wing, Iron Flame, this whole series, is because we only have two books out, and there’s still another three, right? And there might be spinoffs. And Lexi, you mentioned the TV show. So we’re in the very, very early stages of this fandom, and I think that’s very exciting. And I think I agree with you: Ultimately, nothing can potentially ever be the next Harry Potter, but things can get close, and maybe they’ll be their own versions of that. I think this fandom is very exciting.

Lexi: Actually, I’ll change my comparison. Maybe a little bit more like Game of Thrones, because that is another thing that everybody knows about too. Maybe not everybody has read the books, because they are some dense books – I love the books, but they are very dense – but again, before the final season came out, everybody was theorizing. Oh my gosh, on YouTube… I was so immersed in all of that. So I could definitely see this taking on a Game of Thrones aspect too.

Eric: They’ve just got to be sure to stick the landing.

Lexi: Oh, God, don’t get me started on that, Eric.

[Everyone laughs]

Micah: Well, and I don’t think people are going to want a Game of Thrones theme park, right? I mean, that would be a little…

Lexi: I tell you what, I would not want to go to any wedding ceremony in there.

Nicole: That could get creative real fast.

[Everyone laughs]

Micah: One question I did have for you, though, in going back to this being the next Harry Potter: I think, first off, it’s tough to compare anything to Harry Potter. But I think the one thing Harry Potter had – and we’ve talked a lot about this on the show – is it was just the right time, especially with the rise of the Internet. It just was a combination of the right things at the right time before, I think, the Internet got to the point of where it is now, especially with social media. Because I often wonder what Harry Potter would have been like with all these platforms that are out today, and the level of criticism that all of these series have to go through.

Lexi: Yeah, I’ve thought about that as well, especially as… I’ve listened to other deep dives about Harry Potter, and I know that we’re going to be poking fun at some of the… I’ll call them gaping plot holes. [laughs] But we lovingly embrace them because we just have to let them be, and I agree that if… Harry Potter was so perfect at the time that it was, and now, for instance, Fourth Wing, I think it’s perfect for the time that it is because it has so many fun Easter eggs and ways to theorize, and everybody just loves that so much. And it’s got relatable characters, and like Nicole was saying, that representation, and it’s so great for the time that it’s in, the time that it’s coming out.

Andrew: Lexi, you mentioned you’re a big, big Harry Potter fan. You also told us you’re pretty darn good at reciting in order every single chapter in the Harry Potter series.

Lexi: Yes.

Andrew: So we thought if we could get a taste of this… we’re not going to have you do the whole book series.

[Andrew and Lexi laugh]

Andrew: Even though that would be incredibly impressive. Could you just recite every chapter in order from Book 4, the book we’re currently doing Chapter by Chapter on?

Eric: And I will be grading you; I’ve got copy of Goblet of Fire right here.

Lexi: All right, sounds good. And I’ll start by saying the reason that I know all of this is, again, going back to my very young children, I needed something to do after I’d read Harry Potter a million times on the audiobook, and so I started just making a game out of it for myself. And here I am a few years later. So anyway, all right. Chapter 1, we have “The Riddle House,” of course; Chapter 2, “The Scar”; Chapter 3, “The Invitation”; Chapter 4, “Back to the Burrow”; Chapter 5, “Weasleys’ Wizard Wheezes”; and Chapter 6, “The Portkey”; Chapter 7, “Bagman and Crouch.” Hey, that’s today’s episode!

[Nicole laughs]

Eric: Hey, for those following at home!

Lexi: Chapter 8, “The Quidditch World Cup.” Then… what am I on? That was Chapter 8. Chapter 9 is “The Dark Mark”; Chapter 10, “Mayhem at the Ministry”; Chapter 11, “Aboard the Hogwarts Express”; Chapter 12 is “The Triwizard Tournament”; Chapter 13 is “Professor” – no, “Mad-Eye Moody”? Yeah, “Mad-Eye Moody”; and then Chapter 14, oh, “The Unforgivable Curses” because that’s right after that. Okay, and then we have “Beauxbatons and Durmstrang”; Chapter 16, we have “The Goblet of Fire”; Chapter 17, we have “The Four Champions”; Chapter 18 “The Weighing of the Wands”; Chapter 19, “The Hungarian Horntail”; Chapter 20, “The First Task”; Chapter 21, we have “The House-Elf Liberation Front”; Chapter 22, we have… okay, then we have “The Unexpected Task”; then Chapter 23, “Yule Ball”; Chapter 24, “Rita Skeeter’s Scoop”; Chapter 25, “The Egg and the Eye”; Chapter 26 is “The Second Task”; Chapter 27 is “Padfoot Returns”; Chapter 28 is “The Madness of Mr. Crouch”; Chapter 29 is “The Dream”; Chapter 20… Chapter 30… what chapter am I on? I’m so nervous that I’m forgetting and I have to…

Eric: You’re doing great. You’re on 30.

Lexi: “The Pensieve.” Chapter 31 is “The Third Task”; Chapter 32 is “Flesh, Blood, and Bone”; Chapter 33 is “The Death Eaters”; Chapter 34 is “Priori Incantatem”; I can’t pronounce that. Chapter 35 is “Veritaserum”; Chapter 36 is “The Parting of the Ways”; and Chapter 37 is “The Beginning.” Yep, I know there’s 37.

Eric and Laura:: Wow.

[Everyone cheers]

Laura: Oh my gosh.

Eric: 100% accuracy!

Nicole: I am so proud to be your sister!

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: They’re sisters too! I don’t even think we mentioned this.

Lexi: Oh, yeah, we’re sisters. [laughs] But yeah, I have my milestone chapters and then I have the sequence of events that go through, and so yeah, that’s that.

Eric: Being able to say the numbers before each title? I would never be able to. I’d never be able to, like, “Which one am I on?” Absolutely not. I’d just be able to, like, in an order of something.

Laura: No.

Lexi: That’s why I have… I know the task ones is my is the main one for fourth one. Like I said, those milestone ones, and then I can figure out what’s in between.

Laura: I’m so impressed.

Lexi: Thank you.

Andrew: Yes, you have proven yourself as a real Harry Potter fan.

[Andrew and Lexi laugh]

Andrew: I love your story as to how you remember all these chapters. Lexi and Nicole, such a pleasure to have you on, and listeners, please check out Fantasy Fangirls.

Micah: That’s it. The show’s over.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Yeah, we just had you on to see that party trick. Before we get to Chapter by Chapter, quick announcement, and it’s a timely reminder, so I really wanted to bring it up. Don’t forget, listeners, our overstock store is now open. If you ever wanted one of our cool physical gifts that we have sent to patrons over the years, but you didn’t or couldn’t subscribe to our Patreon, now’s your chance to pick up things like T-shirts, the MuggleCast beanie, the MuggleCast socks, the sweet 16 wooden car that you build, signed album art, all kinds of things. MuggleMillennial.Etsy.com; we’ll also have a link in the show notes. This is where you can get very limited time items. Once these are gone, these are gone, because these are the Overstock things that we’ve had over the years, and now we’re finally cleaning out our closets. And we can turn these around pretty quick. So if you’re shopping for the MuggleCast listener in your life, or maybe you could tell a parent or a loved one, “Hey, go grab me a MuggleCast T-shirt,” go to the store. We’ll get it out in the mail ASAP. By mid-December we’re probably going to no longer guarantee things by Christmas. But until then, Santa MuggleCast over here is delivering MuggleCast goods.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Eric: And we may have one more item that we’re adding to the store. We’re going to check on that.

Andrew: Yeah, more lost T-shirts. [laughs] Recently uncovered.

Laura: Ooh.

Andrew: They’re just hiding all over the desert in this case.

Eric: [laughs] Anyone whose house we’ve ever stayed at might have a box of shirts.

Andrew: Yes. [laughs]


Chapter by Chapter: Seven-Word Summary


Andrew: All right, so with that, let’s move on to Chapter by Chapter, and this week we are discussing Goblet of Fire Chapter 7. What chapter is that again, Lexi? Oh yeah, “Bagman and Crouch.”

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: And as if there wasn’t enough pressure on Nicole and Lexi – in particular with that reciting of the chapters – we are involving them in the seven-word summary as well. Nicole is going to go first and then Lexi. So are you two ready to be put on the spot again?

Nicole: I’m sweating. I hope you all know this. [laughs] Full on sweating.

Andrew: Oh my God. We get stressed by it too.

Nicole: No, I’m so excited. Let’s do this. I’m ready.

[Seven-Word Summary music plays]

Nicole: Arriving…

Lexi: … at…

Andrew: … the…

Laura: … campsite…

Micah: … makes…

Eric: … much…

Nicole: … happen.

Andrew: Well done, well done.

[Seven-Word Summary music ends]


Chapter by Chapter: Main Discussion


Andrew: So the first part of this discussion today is going to be around how the wizards are dealing with the Muggles on site; then we’ll get to Ludo and Barty. So the gang arrive by Portkey and they head to their campsite, where a Muggle named Mr. Roberts will check them in and collect the cost of the campsite. Now, something a little strange happens right off the bat. Arthur needs help from Harry to figure out how much Muggle money he owes Mr. Roberts, and the campsite manager notes that two other people tried to pay him in large gold coins. Nicole, this seems a little odd, right?

Nicole: This is wild to me. The fact that… I have a small bone to pick with Arthur. I’m going to hop on a high horse right off the top of the episode. The fact that this man works in a Muggle-centric part of the Ministry and doesn’t know how to navigate Muggle money, let alone read Muggle money, is wild.

Andrew: Yes.

Laura: Agreed.

Eric: It’s like he’s never seen it before.

Nicole: He thought a 20 was a 5. And I’m like, “My guy. You can do this.”

[Andrew and Lexi laugh]

Eric: Listen, listen. We know that Hogwarts does not have math class…

Lexi: That is true.

Nicole: You make a very good point, Eric. [laughs]

Eric: … so maybe we can blame former headmasters of Hogwarts on this?

Laura: Yeah, but they have numbers in the wizarding world.

Andrew: What?

[Eric and Micah laugh]

Laura: You don’t have to know math.

Eric: Well, seven. They have seven numbers.

[Lexi and Nicole laugh]

Laura: I could understand if maybe he needed help with the mathematical side of things, okay. But confusing a 5 for a 20 or vice versa makes no sense. I 100% agree with you, Nicole. This is one of my biggest gripes about Arthur. How does he consistently not know things about the Muggle world when it is his job to know them?

Andrew: And he…

Nicole: There’s certain… oh, go for it, Andrew.

Andrew: Well, I was just going to say, he gets so much pleasure out of studying Muggle things, you would think he would also be fascinated by Muggle money. Go ahead, Nicole.

Nicole: Well, and also, I can’t blame him entirely for a lot of things. Later on, he plays with matches, which is concerning…

Eric: No, I’ve done that, yeah.

Nicole: … but maybe not as alarming as not being able to read Muggle money.

[Lexi laughs]

Nicole: That’s terrifying.

Micah: He’s a pyro.

Nicole: But certain things… he gets so excited and he’s so… electricity and everything; he just gets so excited about the Muggle world. But the fact that he doesn’t know how to interact with Muggle things… I think that would be base level, intern level at his job when he entered the Ministry, or Muggle class 101.

Eric: Yes.

Micah: I was thinking, too, with this whole situation, wristbands.

Nicole: Yes!

[Lexi laughs]

Micah: Just wristband everyone. Why does everybody have to pay this guy to get onto the site?

Nicole: Someone’s been to Lollapalooza.

[Laura and Micah laugh]

Eric: Look, the wristband situation is very efficient. That’s a great setup. It really works. Why is this guy even here to take their money? That sounds like an endless amount of Memory Charms in the making. And sure enough, that happens in this chapter. People materialize out of anywhere, yell “Obliviate,” and he just goes on with this day, but why is he even here? There can be no way in which this goes off without a hitch. And they could have just either sent him on vacation, did something like they do with the Dursleys to get them out of their home… why is the Muggle even here? We know a lot worse is coming with him and his family later.

Andrew: He owns the campsite. It’s just that simple, isn’t it? So I guess…

Eric: Well, yeah, but he can go on a vacation, or anti-Muggle charms that they put up; make a Muggle forget something at home, like, “Oh, I left the oven on,” he’s got to trek… just go away for a week.

Laura: I mean, Hermione sends her parents to Australia in Book 7. It can be done.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Andrew: Rent out the entire campsite. The Quidditch World Cup can do it or whatever. Rent out all the campsites that you need. And then, yes, tell Mr. Roberts and all the other owners to go take a little vacation.

Eric: Yeah, there’s got to be someone in the wizarding world that knows how to do money. Just give him a huge sum, tell him he won a trip, and… the best minds are on this. This is the international government effort. And you have this man who is for reasons very obvious, suspicious, personally interacting with every new camper. It seems like people didn’t actually think this out very much.

Laura: Wizards just love chaos, as we talk about on this show all the time. And to the point of all the Memory Charms, I feel like an excessive amount of Memory Charms being performed on a person has to cause some kind of lasting damage. There is no way it doesn’t. And we’ve already seen in Chamber of Secrets the effects of a Memory Charm that is misfired, so I have to think that overdoing it, it’s the equivalent of running somebody… I don’t know if this is a great comparison, but they don’t want to give people MRIs five times a day for a month. You know what I mean? It has some impacts.

Andrew and Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: Right.

Lexi: If you think about it, Bertha Jorkins… so we know that Barty Crouch… that’s why she has such bad memory later at the very end of the book. And she’s very prominent at the very end of this chapter, too, as they’re talking about her and why no one’s gone out looking for her, which I have so much to talk about. We’ll get to that. But that’s another example of Memory Charms gone wrong. So I absolutely agree; I don’t think that it’s good for this man’s brain.

Nicole: Well, and I’ll also say, he at first – he meaning Mr. Roberts – forgets to give Arthur his change. Now, this could be because he’s just spinning off and trying to put puzzle pieces together, but it also could be a early onset issue with this many Memory Charms, to which the Ministry immediately gives him a Memory Charm.

[Eric and Micah laugh]

Nicole: And then he gives his change back after that.

Eric: “Oh, you’re remembering something? No, you aren’t.”

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: But that is wizards’ whole approach to everything pretty much when it comes to Muggles.

Micah: It’s also a reflection, too, of how the Ministry views Muggles. And we see a slow de-evolution over the course of the next several books in terms of how the Ministry treats non-wizarding folk, so maybe this is a little bit of a taste for us as readers. Just going back to Arthur for a second, because we’ve talked about this in this book in particular, I’m wondering if he doesn’t know how to use money, is that some kind of statement being made by the author because he doesn’t have a lot of money?

Laura: Ohh.

Eric: Right, he’s never seen a lot of either kind of money, you’re thinking.

Lexi: Oh, that’s so sad.

Nicole: Oh, I never thought of it that way.

Andrew: Yeah, I mean, it’s an interesting thought, but also, this is basic math here and a basic understanding of currency.

Eric: Yeah, okay, it’d be one thing if British money had Roman numerals, so it was an X instead of a V and he confused the 10 with a 5 because, okay, that seems fair. But a 5 is a 5 and a 20 is a 20. And they might both have the queen on them, but that’s about it. They’re a different color. British money is different colors.

Andrew: Nicole, you have some thoughts on how wizards don’t know how to blend in with Muggles.

Lexi: So we were talking about them renting out the whole property, which is just a fantastic idea. And you think about whatever the complex logistics that go into that, it can’t be more difficult than trying to keep all of this magic a secret. They’re trying to keep it secret from one Muggle family, who, I understand that they live right there on site and manages or owns the campsite there. And it’s a running joke throughout the series, how wizards, they don’t know how to blend in with Muggles, of course. But it shows just how disassociated and uneducated this wizarding society is from the Muggle world; it ties into their conscious or subconscious feelings of superiority. And I say that even about Arthur. He loves Muggles so much, but there is going to be a sense of superiority, which we especially saw in Chapter 4, “Back to the Burrow” there. And how much secrecy the need to keep themselves, it really separates them. They are not associated with the Muggle community for obvious reasons, and therefore, they don’t know anything about the Muggle community, and that really does show that separation there because they have to keep themselves such a big secret.

Andrew: Somebody made a joke about Muggle 101 or something like that a little while ago; there should be some sort of wizard/Muggle social integration lesson at least, somewhere within Hogwarts, like Muggles Studies.

Eric: Well, and I like the idea that Lexi was saying, that it’s because of the Statute of Secrecy that they can’t see Muggles close enough to learn about them to get educated. Because I’m right with that train of thought that says Muggle Studies – which is just a chosen elective for some people who want to take it in maybe their third year – should absolutely be mandatory before you are ever allowed to set foot on Muggle ground. It should be seven years. It should be a subject that’s… it’s more important than Charms. There, I said it.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: If they outnumber you… look, no offense to Flitwick – he would probably excel at teaching Muggle Studies – but they need… reading this chapter specifically, it is insane and absurd how much craziness goes on and how poorly wizards are equipped to blend in. And it’s like they’re not even trying, even head ones.

Micah: Eric, I love this point, because this is the 422nd iteration of this event; it’s not like they decided to do it yesterday.

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Micah: You would think that they would have a much better system in place.

Eric: Honestly, Memory Charms are the only things keeping the Statute of Secrecy up. Well-placed Memory Charms going back centuries.

Nicole: It’s tragic.

Andrew: We used to say it was Dumbledore who enjoys the chaos in the wizarding world, but it’s actually all wizards. They just love the mess. It keeps things exciting for them.

Eric: Oh my God.

Laura: Oh, man. Eric, you bring up an interesting point about a course like Muggle Studies probably should be required, but this is where things always tend to get political with education and what courses are offered. So I’m just trying to imagine the Board of Governors of Hogwarts and them voting on what the required class load is going to be, and them being very dismissive of a course like Muggle Studies. Probably, they would take a similar view towards Divination as well, which is why that’s an elective course. But it just does go to show the many layers in the wizarding world that are impacted by this bias towards Muggles, and a lot of really well-intentioned characters in this series have it and don’t even realize it.

Lexi: That’s such a good point. Yep.

Andrew: So let’s talk about Ludo Bagman. He is the Head of Magical Games and Sports, and he’s not helping with keeping the Muggles in the dark. He keeps loudly talking about Quidditch around the event space. And this situation to keep Muggles from growing suspicious seems untenable, given, as we’re talking about today, the number of wizards on site and how they seem to be pretty lax about keeping their world under wraps. Any other ideas for how they should be handling this?

Laura: Yeah, I mean, I think you’ve already mentioned it, but I’m just thinking about Muggle-Repelling Charms. They use these at Hogwarts to shield a giant castle that is filled with magical children.

Lexi: It’s already such a stressful event for everyone. Why are they adding all of this extra unnecessary stress of monitoring that these wizards, who use magic all day every day, telling them, “Hey, no, you cannot use magic,” as they are Apparating and Disapparating to tell them not to use magic?

Eric: Those Extension Charms that they can do. So if a briefcase can become a full-on zoo in the size of a briefcase, you could fit a World Cup and 100,000 people in a single church or something. I mean, why couldn’t you, like, Room of Requirement? “This year’s Quidditch World Cup will be held in Hogwarts’s Room of Requirement. Thank you. Walk three times on level seven.” It doesn’t make sense. And why is a Muggle present? Of course, we also have the foresight, knowing that the Muggle that’s here, Mr. Roberts and his family, become direct targets for these wizards later. So everything nice and everything accidental about it becomes very intentional, and the Muggle is in more danger. But you just can’t possibly control all of these variables. So the Muggle should be put to sleep for a few days…

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: … or something a little bit more ethical maybe.

Laura: That sounds so ominous.

Nicole: [laughs] I was going to say, you’re going to drug him?

Andrew: Put out to pasture…

Eric: They’re going to already drugging him, though! They’re already…

Nicole: [laughs] That’s true, that’s true.

Micah: This is a celebration. This is something that happens once every four years. Why are you going to try and keep people from being excited and having a good time? That’s what I don’t understand.

Andrew: I was going to say this exact thing.

Eric: It’s all fun and games until somebody gets held up by Death Eaters and paraded around in a stupor.

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Laura: Listen, all of this was to set up the Portkey.

Lexi: Yes.

Andrew: Well, right.

Laura: That’s literally what this is.

Nicole: That’s a good point.

Eric: J.K. Rowling is like… she literally started with, “I need a boot that does things. How are we going to introduce…? I got it. I got it. Wizards suck.” [laughs]

Andrew: I skipped over this earlier, but to the point about Arthur: Rowling is basically throwing him under the bus, making him go, “Oh, what’s Muggle…? I don’t understand how to interpret Muggle money.” I was trying to think, what does that serve from a storytelling perspective? And it only really seems to be to show Mr. Roberts’s suspicions about these people, but there probably would have been other ways to do that without making Arthur seem like an idiot.

Eric: Yeah, it also makes Harry look good. Harry is happy to step in.

Nicole: This also started earlier in this book with the electric fireplace and… “eckeltricity”? Is that the word he uses for it?

Lexi: That’s what he says, yeah.

Nicole: He starts being this “kooky dad” – is what I’m going to call him – character way earlier than this chapter right here, and continues to be so for, I would probably say, the rest of the series. So I do wonder, what is the storytelling purpose behind having Arthur being a little bit, again, kooky dad energy?

Lexi: I think it goes right back to what we were saying about that subconscious of… he just has such good intentions, but he has always lived separate from them. He works I guess you could say “with” them, but it’s not with them; but it’s really more “around” them, is what it is there. And yes, it would make absolute sense for him to do his job knowing better, but it goes right back to he has always lived separate from them. That doesn’t explain it much more, but yeah.

Andrew: Well, no, I think that is an important little bit of subtext there.

Laura: Agreed.

Andrew: Lexi, again, being a major Harry Potter fan, you’ve also put some thought into the amount of wizards in the wizarding world. In light of this discussion about the Quidditch World Cup – everybody is congregating – how many people are actually there? How many people do you think are actually in the wizarding world?

Lexi: So I go down a lot of rabbit holes here. And I love all the world-building aspects, and so this this chapter in particular… I could argue that any chapter of all the Harry Potter series are my favorite, but this one in particular has so much great world-building about the actual world. So I was wondering, how many witches and wizards are there actually in the world? And I did my digging there, and like many math-related topics in the Harry Potter universe, I found two very different answers.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Lexi: So number one, the author has stated that there are about 3,000 witches and wizards in Britain, which is about 42 witches and wizards to every 1 million in the population. So that would make it super, super rare. 42 out of 1 million are going to be magical. However, there has also been a comment that one in 10 people are magical in the world, which, at the time of our story, that would be approximately 500 million witches and wizards across the globe. I do not think it’s nearly that many there. My guess is that the actual wizarding population is somewhere in between. We know that the Quidditch World Cup stadium, it can seat 100,000, and the tickets were really hard to come by, so we have that context. So if you asked me and I had to give you an answer, I would put it around the 5 to 10 million across the globe. What do you guys think? Just out of curiosity.

Eric: I’m starting to think that neither ADHD or Alzheimer’s are naturally occurring, and that what it is is we’ve just encountered wizards that had to correct their mistakes by Obliviate-ing us.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: That’s why we get so distracted all the time. There’s literally just 500 million wizards always screwing up around us.

Lexi: I love that. That makes me really sad I’m not a witch, though. [laughs]

Laura: I think the logic is sound. I declare canon.

Andrew: Yeah, so I was going to say, Lexi, we have a segment on the show where if we just convince ourselves something must be true, then we declare it canon and it is henceforth canon.

Eric: Play the clip.

[“I declare canon!” sound effect plays with thunder]

Andrew: The lightning makes it official. It would not be official if it weren’t for the lightning.

Eric: I never thought that I would be thinking of… even just parts, people per million, is a great way of analyzing that. I just think… I mean, look, the author self-admittedly is horrible at math.

Lexi: Yes.

Eric: And anytime there’s even like, a Quidditch score, you have to scrutinize it because it’s very taxing. And it’s taxing for all of us; I mean, why would you keep that in track? But if you go by the population of Hogwarts as well, knowing that they also encompass all of British wizards, then you get an even smaller number, I think, than the 42 per million. So you just really… it can’t be known. But 100,000 of them have turned out for this match.

Andrew: 500 million seems like that would be way too many. I mean, I would be terrified to live in a world with 500 million wizards. That’s just a security nightmare. [laughs]

Eric: That’s what I’m saying! That’s why we’re all so forgetful, yeah.

Lexi: [laughs] So yeah, I’m going to go with the 5 million final answer. I’m just pulling that up. I started to do some of the math because we know how many students are at Hogwarts, and so I was starting to look at all the other schools, and then I told myself, “You’ve got to get out of this rabbit hole. Just stop it.” So yeah.

[Everyone laughs]

Lexi: Maybe one of these days I’ll actually try to do the math.

Micah: If you ever got the number correct, your memory would likely be wiped by a witch or wizard so that you’d…

Lexi: I’d say, “ADHD.” [laughs]

Andrew: You’ve got to play dumb.

Micah: To Eric’s point earlier, yep.

Andrew: “I just can’t figure it out! Author really stumped us.”

Lexi: You’re going to check in on me in three weeks, and Nicole is going to be like, “I don’t know what happened to Lexi. She ran off, and now she’s in Albania and we lost her.”

[Nicole laughs]

Eric: Lexi is going to need a straitjacket. “Who am I? Who am I?” Yeah.

Andrew: She said she was on Pottercast. I said, “No, you’re on MuggleCast.”

[Lexi laughs]

Laura: But listen, this is where I think our interpretations of the wizarding world can hit some limitations when we’re thinking about 2023 terms. Because yeah, they might come along, Lexi, and Obliviate you, but you’ve already shared this brilliant theory on our show that’s about to be pumped out to tens of thousands of listeners, so they gonna go around and wipe everyone’s memory who ever listen to this episode of the show?

Lexi: I’m so sorry, everyone. [laughs]

Nicole: It’s a lot of work.

Micah: Unless they get Andrew before he edits.

[Laura and Lexi laugh]

Andrew: They just edit it out. Yeah, that’s the easiest way to do it.

Laura: They just delete the whole thing. [laughs] The lost episode.

Micah: Now this gives me an idea for when I say things on the show; I can just go to the Obliviater squad and send them after Andrew so that they end up in the final cut.

Andrew: All right, I see this train riding off the rails, so…

[Everyone laughs]

Laura: Andrew is like, “Please, God, stop.”

Micah: Choo-choo.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: So back to what’s happening. Harry and Hermione, they lead the construction of their tent, and Harry assumes it’s going to be some plain old Muggle tent. But once he steps inside, it’s actually more of a magical glamping situation. It’s a three-room flat with a bathroom and a kitchen, and it’s apparently furnished in the style of Mrs. Figg’s house. And Arthur says he got this magical tent from a co-worker at the Ministry; this is Perkins, who we will meet in Order of the Phoenix. It almost seems out of character for him to not have wanted to use a plain Muggle tent. That’s part of getting the Muggle experience; that seems right up Arthur’s alley.

Eric: We’re all a little bit hypocritical when it comes to “Yes, Arthur is loving this, get up at the crack of dawn, carry all your kids there,” but why should they inconvenience themselves with Muggle tents, when it could just look like a tent outside and have all the conveniences on the inside?

Laura: I’ll defend myself here and say that I actually love traditional camping.

Eric: Nobody loves traditional camping! [laughs] I’m sorry.

Laura: I do. I think this is very in character for Arthur, though.

Eric: Right.

Laura: … because again, he’s obsessed with Muggles, but he doesn’t know that much about them, including what it’s like to camp in a tent.

Lexi: For all he knows, this is it.

Micah: I think Arthur said, “You know what, Harry, Hermione? Three years from now, you’re really going to need to know how to build a tent, so get after it.”

Eric: So why does it smell like Mrs. Figg’s house?

Andrew: That is a very good question. I think we actually have some theories. I know, Micah, thank you for putting in the note about Perkins; we meet him in Order of the Phoenix. But Figg is another person we meet in Order of the Phoenix.

Micah: Yep. There’s actually a lot of characters in this chapter that get a brief mention that we meet later on in Order of the Phoenix.

Andrew: Expanding the world, like I think Lexi said. Lexi, you might have a theory here about Perkins and Figg.

Lexi: I do. You can’t bring me onto a podcast and not… [sighs] I’ve got to talk my theories, right? So I love the theory that Perkins and Miss Figg, they dated at some point. Because they seem like they’re around the same age. They’re both older, and poor Perkins has lumbago, and they would go camping, they would go on camping adventures, and they’d bring her cats for whatever reason…

Eric: Ohh.

Lexi: … and he is in the Misuse of Muggle Artifacts Department as a homage to his continued love for the scribe that got away. That’s my theory right there.

Andrew and Laura:: Aww.

Lexi: Or it’s actually Mrs. Figg’s – or Miss Figg’s – is it Mrs. Figg or Miss Figg?

Eric: I always think of her as a Ms. Figg. [laughs] But that’s just me.

Laura and Nicole:: Mrs.

Lexi: It’s always called “Mrs.,” right? But we never hear anything about her husband, because…

Micah: She’s a cat lady. I mean, let’s be real.

Laura: And there’s nothing wrong with that.

Micah: There’s nothing wrong with that. I’m just saying.

[Andrew, Lexi, and Nicole laugh]

Lexi: Or I was also thinking, maybe it’s Mrs. Figg’s tent and the other tent that doesn’t smell like cats is Perkins’s, but Arthur, he is lying to Harry because he can’t tell him them that it’s actually his neighbor’s cat because she’s undercover and all of that. I don’t think that he’d actually lie to her, but I just have way too much fun.

Andrew and Laura:: Ohh.

Andrew: That’s fun.

Laura: That’s so fun.

Eric: That’s the interesting thing about this, is that I think this sets up Figg as being more than just a neighbor. And it’s true; we’ve learned she’s a Squib, but after the trial, that doesn’t go anywhere in Order of the Phoenix.

Nicole: Right?

Lexi: I have one more possibility; it’s that Perkins bought it from Mrs. Figg on the wizards’ version of Craigslist, or she gave it to him. Maybe it’s her brother, because she is a Squib, so maybe Perkins is her brother, and for some reason or another when she was done camping, she wanted to settle in as her undercover self. She gave it to him.

Nicole: I’m here for these unhinged theories. I love this.

[Andrew and Lexi laugh]

Lexi: Oh, I have so many with Harry Potter. It’s so much fun.

Nicole: Well, one thing I do want to mention is that this is also foreshadowing using Perkins’s tent here, because Harry mentions that he’s never been camping before, but he will be camping a lot soon, like you were saying, Micah, and in this very same tent. And I didn’t realize until I started doing my deep dives of the Harry Potter world that it was the same tent that they use for the Quidditch World Cup.

Andrew: That is crazy.

Laura: That is such a good catch.

Andrew: Thank you, Perkins.

Micah: Yeah, and this tent, by the way – I don’t know how the rest of the panel feels here – but it leads to one of the cheesiest moments in all of the Harry Potter films, when Harry walks into the tent and he just says, “I love magic.”

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: I love that moment.

[Lexi and Nicole laugh]

Laura: I eye roll every time.

Micah: It was not needed. We’re four movies in. Come on, Mike Newell.

Andrew: He’s vocalizing what all the viewers are saying; that’s all.

Micah: I blame the director for that.

Lexi: He’s pulling an Eric; he’s like, “Yes, I’m not actually having to camp! Yes!”

[Andrew and Lexi laugh]

Andrew: So let’s focus now on Bagman and Crouch. So Bagman, I mentioned him a few minutes ago; he’s an eccentric wizard. He walks as if he has springs under his feet. And his first words to Harry and company are “Ahoy there,” which if you ever hear that from a stranger, you know you’re going to be in for a treat, I think. I don’t think I’ve ever heard anybody say “Ahoy there.” Well, maybe I just need to go sailing more, but…

Eric: Let’s normalize saying “Ahoy there.”

Nicole: I was going to say, I might start now.

[Everyone laughs]

Nicole: I feel like this is a challenge.

Andrew: Well, so we got our listeners saying “Hey, y’all,” so maybe they should start saying “Ahoy there.”

Eric: Let’s change the feedback form to manually insert “Ahoy there” at the beginning of every message.

Laura: Do it.

Andrew: We could do that.

Laura: Or, hear me out – hear me out – what about “Ahoy, y’all”?

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: Ooh, that’s flying a little too close to the sun, Laura. That’s playing with fire.

Lexi: That’s some deep south right there.

[Everyone laughs]

Lexi: I just love the way that Bagman is described. “Made him look like an overgrown schoolboy.” You just have such a great visual picture of him there, and it makes me so sad we didn’t get him in the movie, but I’m not going to go down that hole. And there’s the haggard-looking Ministry workers and they’re running around, they’re super stressed out, while he’s all like, “Well, if there’s not much for me to do!” and it’s like, we all have had that manager or we at least know of that leadership figure, right? Where it’s like, “Oh my God, everything’s on fire and you’re just walking around with a big smile on your face drinking coffee.”

Andrew: [laughs] “Everything’s fine!”

Laura: Yeah, I relate to that so much. I can’t even begin to tell you.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Nicole: I relate to the people running around screaming. That’s my vibe.

[Laura and Lexi laugh]

Micah: It’s funny, yeah, because I know, Laura, you and I can probably picture a few people that we work with that fit this to a tee.

Laura: Oh, yes.

Nicole: I do want to mention, because Ludo mentions Agatha Timms, who bet half of her shares of her eel farm on having a week-long match, and I have a lot of questions about this one sentence right here.

Andrew: Yeah, well, go ahead. Question number one, her age?

Laura: Yeah, no, I mean, it feels really icky to me, because if you’re talking about a child betting the shares of her eel farm, I’m imagining a child betting their shares in their ant farm that they have in their bedroom at home or something.

Eric: Or Crayola crayons in their box.

Laura: Yeah, it’s just so exploitive of a child. And it’s one thing to do this with teenagers, right? Because you can argue that they’re of an age where they can reasonably understand the rules of gambling as it were. But not a kid, man. That’s just gross.

Nicole: I love that you went to the kid land because I was like, “This is a grownup. This is a grownup woman who just has an eel farm.”

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Well, they do use the word “young.” Bagman does use the word “young,” right, in the text, so I think that’s why…

Nicole: That’s true.

Lexi: I thought he used “little.” I think he uses “little.”

Andrew: Oh, little?

Lexi: So I was under the impression that she was like a Flitwick sort of little.

Andrew and Laura:: Ohh.

Laura: So she’s small of stature, but not necessarily a child.

Lexi: That was my impression. [laughs]

Eric: Well, given that we know what Bagman is doing, which is actively, as the Head of Magical Games and Sports, going around ripping people off with no intention to ever pay them back and making these bets, it is predatory. Actually, reading this chapter, I posit that Ludo Bagman is actually the most morally bankrupt character that we meet in this book, and maybe the whole series. The only people who come close are Umbridge and Mundungus Fletcher.

Nicole: So are you saying Ludo Bagman is worse morally than Umbridge? This is a hot take, Eric.

Eric: Well, that’s why I started off saying “this book.” But he’s pretty morally depraved.

Nicole: I would agree.

Eric: He’s in the top three of the whole series.

Andrew: Just this whole gambling thing does not sit right with me in general. The fact that Ludo is doing this in front of Arthur, too, and even Arthur is like, “No, I don’t think Molly would be happy with this,” he still presses forward.

Eric: And he got them their tickets. So he’s making a bet; he knows he’s going to rip off the Weasley twins for all of their money, literally turning out all of their pockets in front of their father, and Bagman was the one that gave them their tickets to the Cup. That’s like, “Hello, let me lead you to the slaughterhouse, and then I will take all of your money.” There’s so much that’s wrong about this, not to mention the conflict of interest because he’s the Department Head of Magical Games and Sports and he’s going around, but he should be forbidden from placing bets.

Lexi: I never thought of that.

Laura: Yeah, especially since… and Micah, I would love to hear your thoughts on this. I mean, there’s always the possibility of an athletic match being rigged, right? And so what if that was the case here, and if Bagman knew exactly what the outcome was going to be, and he was doing this specifically to take advantage of people?

Micah: Sure. Yeah, I think it certainly raises ethical questions, to your point, to Eric’s point, especially because he is directly responsible for putting on this event. He should not be in a betting pool. He could have insider information that could directly impact the outcome of the match, and/or lead him to making more money for himself. Now, the piece that isn’t clear, at least right now, is if he stands to gain anything from this pool. Is he just organizing the pool? Or does he actually have money in the pool himself where he could win or he could lose as a result of that? And yeah, it just doesn’t seem like something a Ministry official should be doing.

Nicole: I’m assuming he has a lot on the line here because of how much the goblin trouble gives him later, to the point where he just gives Fred and George vanishing money. So I feel like he’s trying to keep whatever he can to himself from… I mean, whether it’s ethical or not… none of this is ethical on his part, but whether he’s taking portions knowingly by the external parties, or he’s taking portions unknowingly by the external parties, some shady stuff is going on with our guy Ludo.

Micah: Yeah, and I can say from my own experience, I have to take a specific gambling training at work because of the nature of my job. The only thing I can do is I can be in a fantasy league, but that fantasy league cannot result in any kind of financial or other beneficial gain for me, should I end up winning it at the end of the season.

Eric: Here’s a quick name origin on Ludo Bagman. Ludo is a shortened form of Ludwig, and it translates, in German and Flemish origins, Ludo means “famous fighter.” So for a former Quidditch player, that’s huge. And a “bag man” is an agent who collects or distributes the proceeds of illicit activities.

Andrew: Sometimes these names are very on the nose. [laughs]

Micah: Is he same category as Mundungus Fletcher in our minds?

Laura: I think so.

Eric: But again, morally bankrupt. Really no repercussions. The only difference is status.

Laura: Former Quidditch player, Ministry official.

Lexi: Had the ends to be able to get into the Ministry in the first place.

Andrew: In terms of the betting with the twins, the twins actually do get their bet right.

Micah: Yeah.

Eric: Wow.

Micah: Lexi actually has a point in here that I agree with. I don’t think, looking back on it, the prediction was all that hard to come by. If you know the sport, I actually think it’s a really smart pick, actually.

Lexi: I agree, because we know that Ireland’s Chasers are absolutely legendary, and then we know that Krum really carries the other team there. So it makes sense. I mean, yes, it is absolutely still a big risk there, but I think it’s brilliant on their part.

Nicole: Well, I will say… so the author did address this, because someone at the Leaky Cauldron in 2005 – I went down my own little rabbit hole trying to find the answer to this question – she addressed it with saying, “It was a risk. They risked everything on it. That is Fred and George, isn’t it? They are always the risk-takers of the family.” I was not as in the camp of “Oh yeah, this makes a lot of sense for them.” I was like, “Who has illicit Time-Turners?”

[Everyone laughs]

Nicole: “Who’s got a connection to Krum?” All of these backend… here I am on my unhinged theory train.

[Lexi laughs]

Nicole: But hearing you say that, Lex, I’m like, “Oh, that actually does make a lot more sense now.” [laughs] Maybe they don’t have an illicit Time-Turner.

Eric: Are Fred and George time-traveling Dumbledore?

[Micah laughs]

Andrew: Well, and I mean, look, they’re smart guys. I mean, they open up a very successful business. Even Ludo is very impressed with the wand that they show him, and he said he hasn’t seen a prank one like this in years. So they’re smart; they know what they’re doing. I mean, I would not put it past them that they would one day become professional sports bettors. That does seem very them.

Nicole: [tearfully] Not Fred, though.

Andrew: Oh, yeah.

Nicole: Sorry.

Laura: RIP.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Any other points about gambling anybody wants to bring up? Otherwise we could probably move on.

Lexi: It’s not so much about the betting, but I did want to raise a question. I’ve always been curious about the incident Arthur helped Ludo with that made him gift Arthur ten tickets to the top box. That is ten VIP tickets in the most prestigious spot of this 100,000 seat stadium. And I get that it’s for the story; Harry and company, they can’t have the nosebleed sections where they can’t see anything. And we need to interact with these important characters in the story, the Malfoys, Fudge, see Krum up close. But my goodness, what did Ludo get into? And more importantly, what did Arthur get him out of that got ten VIP tickets?

Eric: That’s a good question.

Laura: It goes to show that Arthur may not be as squeaky clean as we perceive him to be.

Nicole: He did make a flying car, which was not cool. [laughs]

Eric: The point I was going to make was that we can totally see Ludo Bagman getting into trouble that has to do with illegal activities, malice, not trying to do the right thing, but I would only ever see Mr. Weasley, even if it’s helping a friend or a colleague out of a spot of trouble, stopping short basically of breaking any rules, besides the very unique circumstance of the car.

Micah: Yeah, but he is kind of a rule breaker. And Eric, wasn’t it you on one of the previous shows that talked about how he’s got a bit of Fred and George in him? Or maybe Fred and George have a little bit of Arthur?

Eric: I think Fred and George, yeah.

Laura: I agree.

Andrew: Okay, wait, I have a theory based on what we’re discussing here. Arthur made this flying invisible car, okay? Ludo said “Ahoy” at the top of this conversation.

[Lexi and Nicole laugh]

Andrew: What if Ludo is a sailor, his boat was sinking, and Arthur can fix and build boats as well? Maybe Arthur built him a boat!

Eric: Oh my God.

Nicole: You have been on the Empyrean TikTok!

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Hey, this crazy stuff happens in the Harry Potter world too.

Nicole: I love it. I wouldn’t have it any other way.

Lexi: I absolutely love it. I just had to throw that question out there because it has been eating at me for years. What did Arthur do to get ten VIP tickets to this thing?

Andrew: Created one heck of a boat.

[Nicole laughs]

Eric: Not only have I never thought to ask that question, I’ve never seen it asked before. So mad props. Mad, mad props.

Laura: Seriously.

Andrew: [laughs] All right, so let’s turn our attention to Crouch. Kind of a… well, really the opposite of Bagman. And he, unlike Ludo, followed the rule of dressing like a Muggle at the Quidditch World Cup. He’s an older man who looks so much like a Muggle that Harry thinks even Vernon would be fooled. Now, a big angle of this scene with Crouch is Percy’s relationship with him. Crouch fanboy Percy offers him a cup of tea, to which Crouch says, “Thank you, Weatherby.”

Nicole: Tough.

Andrew: Talk about a Crouchy Ouchy. That hurts.

[Everyone laughs]

Micah: I really think that needs to be the episode title.

Eric: Crouchy Ouchy.

Andrew: Either that or “Ahoy, y’all.”

Eric: Oh my God.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Andrew: Ahoy, y’all! It’s a Crouchy Ouchy.

[Nicole laughs]

Eric: I feel so sad. Of course, Fred and George… this is all the ammunition that Fred and George need for the next eight years of torment for Percy.

Andrew: Oh, yeah.

Eric: The idea that you finally are in the presence of this man that Percy won’t stop kissing his…

Andrew: Tookus?

Micah: Behind.

Eric: … ahoy. But you totally… wait, what was it, Micah?

Micah: I said “behind.” Andrew said “tookus.”

Andrew: What’s the backside of a boat? A stern?

Micah: Yes.

Andrew: The poop deck?

[Everyone laughs]

Micah: The fact that, yes, Percy wouldn’t stop kissing Crouch’s poop deck? That doesn’t sound right.

[Lexi and Nicole laugh]

Eric: And he can’t remember his name. And here’s the thing, it’s funny, and it’s sad. Because I think some aspect… we’ve all experienced maybe this situation, where you’re really passionate but you don’t necessarily get the respect that you deserve or you don’t get really acknowledged. For his boss… Percy is one of his direct reports, or a secretary, whatever, but he still doesn’t remember his name, or gets it wrong. That’s really hurtful. You feel simultaneously bad for Percy, and then every one of his siblings is there to pounce on it? Basically, it’s honestly a DEFCON 5 scenario.

Micah: It’s worst case scenario, right? And I think for Percy, he isn’t as important as he makes himself out to be, so much so that his boss doesn’t even call him by the proper name. And I think he’s exposed in the worst possible way, just given the fact of how we’ve seen him behave up until this point. And what’s even worse is despite the slight, Percy continues to defend Crouch when the conversation turns to the secrecy surrounding the Triwizard Tournament, and that’s, of course, when Fred calls him Weatherby. Of course it’s Fred, because Fred is always the one who does that.

Eric: Always Fred.

Laura: Yeah. Ugh, Fred, why are you so mean? I find this to be particularly embarrassing for Percy because Barty Crouch clearly knows Arthur… [laughs]

Eric and Micah:: Right.

Laura: … and knows his last name, and sees a young red-haired man who he works with there with Arthur. Even if you didn’t know immediately that he was Arthur Weasley’s son, you could put two and two together and be like, “Oh, I’ve been calling this kid the wrong name for the last three months. Oops.”

Nicole: Here’s what I will say. I think that this says… it’s supposed to say a lot about Percy and his all importance and stuff like that, but I do also think it’s supposed to say a lot about Crouch and how he thinks of and treats the people beneath him, setting us up for the Winky stuff. And it’s just supposed to give us a big ol’ “Hmm.” You know how it’s like, “Never date a guy who’s bad to a waiter” or “mean to a waiter”? I feel like this is this version of that.

Laura: It’s great advice.

Eric: Yes, this is the upcoming Sirius quote, as well. “Look at how he treats his inferiors, not his equals.”

Lexi: Some advice he should take himself.

Micah: Right. And then you could get into a whole conversation about looking at them as inferiors to begin with. So is that line by Sirius a good one in truth?

Eric: Yeah, we’ll see.

Lexi: True.

Micah: What’s interesting, though, too, is that Slughorn behaves very much the same way in Half-Blood Prince towards Ron, right? He can never remember his name. And whether it’s intentional or not, it’s still a huge sign of disrespect. We talked about “Weasley” is not that hard of a name to pronounce or remember, and Crouch doesn’t seem like the dickish type, to the point that was just brought up; I just think he could care less about Percy and has more important things to worry about.

Eric: I think the second half of that is true, where he’s so stressed. This is why Percy wants to mollify him and is always offering him tea and is stumbling over himself trying to fix things, is because Percy, I think, to some degree is an empath, and to some degree is trying to account for how busy Crouch is. So Percy has put himself in a thankless position, but Crouch really is distracted, because if you were Barty Crouch and you knew that there’s a woman out there that knows that your son did not die in Azkaban like everyone thinks, and you have nothing but a thin Memory Charm protecting that secret from sinking you at any minute, and that woman’s gone missing, you’d be a little freaked out as well. And then the Head of the Department that’s supposed to be looking for her is going around placing bets, shouting about Quidditch in front of Muggles and doesn’t care about finding her? You’d be a little stressed out too. So I don’t necessarily think that it’s that Crouch is a bad dude at all. I mean, keeping in mind whatever happens in the future chapters; it’s been forever since I’ve read. But I just think that he’s terrified and really is distracted.

Laura: Yeah, and we were talking about name origins for Ludo Bagman; let’s talk about Crouch. I mean, to crouch is to be in a defensive posture, and that is where we see this character the entire book.

Micah: Mic drop. [laughs]

Lexi: Eric, you had mentioned… you have Bertha Jorkins right there. And of course, we remember her her from Chapter 1 when Voldemort and Wormtail were talking about her, and it’s so great. It’s such a casual reference about her, and us as readers are really perking up, right? Bagman knows that she has the memory like a “leaky cauldron,” which is at odds with the schoolgirl that Sirius remembers. And it’s such a nice little hint to that Memory Charm that Crouch placed on her, and the damage that it did. And Crouch keeps pressuring Bagman to search for her because he’s worried about her disappearance and what that means for the secret he covered up, exactly what you were just saying there. And he’s probably like, “Hey, we need to keep an eye on her,” and now that she’s disappeared, it makes absolute sense that he wants to find her in hindsight. And I just have to ask, however, why is it Bagman’s job to find her? There is a Department of Magical Law Enforcement. And why is Bagman, the Head of the Sports Department, in charge? He needs to give the green light for his employee to be found? To even be searched for?

Nicole: I want to be Ludo Bagman’s employee because I can just, like, yeet for three weeks.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: On his boat.

Nicole: No one would care. That’d be pretty cool. I guess PTO is just not really a thing.

Lexi: I just find that so fascinating. Why does Bagman have to be looking for her? I mean, he should care, but it’s not really his job to find her. It’s a different department that should be looking for her simply as a missing person in general.

Eric: That’s a fair, fair point. I like to think that if there was law enforcement that came to Bagman and asked him, though, his dismissiveness of it would keep them at bay for a little while. If Bagman were, when asked, to characterize her as being like, “That’s a little unusual. She has been a little confused in the past, but is mostly really good. I’m worried.” Instead he’s like, “Oh, pfft, she’ll show up,” or whatever, and the law enforcement then doesn’t have that extra impetus to really search for her.

Lexi: That is a fantastic point.

Micah: Bagman is the type of individual, the less responsibility the better. If he doesn’t have to worry about a missing employee, he doesn’t have to worry about a missing employee.

Nicole: He doesn’t even know he should!

Micah: It’s his attitude. It’s who he is.

Lexi: All right, that gives me some peace there.

Andrew: For now.

[Andrew and Lexi laugh]


Odds & Ends


Andrew: So the chapter does end with them heading to the Cup itself. Let’s get into some odds and ends. A forthcoming major event is once again hinted at, and this time we learn it’s going to be happening at Hogwarts, so that’s a new development. And Fred asks Arthur for more information, but dad and Percy – or Weatherby – don’t offer him any clues. Ron also is fangirling over Krum.

Lexi: I love how Hermione comments that he looks grumpy and it’s like, “Oh, don’t worry, girl. He won’t be grumpy with you.”

Eric: Aww.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: We mentioned this earlier too; I just wanted to shout out, again, lots of color in terms of what it’s like to live amongst wizards. We are getting a lot of wizarding world world-building, which was really nice to see.

Nicole: Well, shouts to our welcome crew, Basil and another wizard who’s unnamed. But the wizard who’s unnamed is wearing thigh high galoshes, which I needed to look up. That is thigh high rubber boots. What a look.

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: Yeah, that’s just typical Muggle attire, right?

Nicole: I would wear that. Ten out of ten.

Lexi: With a kilt and a poncho.

Eric: I would wear it if I were wading in a river.

[Lexi and Micah laugh]

Laura: Also, we get a call-out to other wizarding schools for the first time in this chapter. We hear about Bill’s old pen pal from Brazil, who I guess sent him a cursed hat, I think because Bill couldn’t go to visit him in Brazil. And it’s just clear that the international flair of the Quidditch World Cup is meant to set up for this year’s events at Hogwarts and for the Triwizard Tournament and two new schools coming into the picture.

Micah: Yeah, and it continues the world building that we’ve talked about, opening Harry’s eyes to the fact that there’s more than just Hogwarts out there. And the first three books were very much like, this is it. It’s Hogwarts. Harry gets on the train, or he flies a car, or he gets on the bus, and he goes. Now it’s like, hey, there’s this whole other world out there with so much other cool stuff to explore.

Lexi: And then I just want to give a shout-out to my fellow families of small children. I have two very young ones and I just felt so seen rereading this now, because hey, my children also wake up at the crack of dawn. So it’s just a nice little nod to us parents.

Eric: Aww.

[Everyone laughs]

Micah: Do they play with wands too? Do they steal your wand?

Nicole: Not yet.

Lexi: I was going to say, I wish, but not with the wands. I do wish, however, that we had the little mini flying brooms, and how they just race. I just thought that was the cutest little thing and I just want to get my son one of those so badly.

Laura: I know.

Andrew: I was disturbed by the child getting a hold of Dad’s wand. I mean, that seems like that could cause a world of problems.

Micah: Wasn’t there a lawsuit recently about that?

[Andrew and Lexi laugh]

Micah: No, I’m serious.

Andrew: There was some sort of lawsuit. TMZ reported on it; a wand, I don’t know, poked an eye out or something. [laughs] Oh, yeah. “Warner Bros. sued over Harry Potter wand: It impaled my kid’s eye!” I mean, anything can do that.

[Lexi and Nicole laugh]

Lexi: That’s not funny. I’m sorry. But it is funny, but it’s not funny.

Nicole: I should not laugh either.

Micah: Hashtag better parenting. Well, we mentioned Perkins; we mentioned Mrs. Figg; we also get a mention of Bode the Unspeakable, and I say, “Hey, it was nice seeing you. We’ll catch up in Order of the Phoenix.”

Eric: For me – talk about deep dives or things that send you on them – I looked up what lumbago is because I was like, “What’s that?” Turns out, it’s something that many of us suffer from and never knew it: lower back pain.

Andrew: Ah, makes sense.

Nicole: Wow. I feel so seen right now.

Eric: That is why Perkins cannot make it all the way to the Cup, because of lower back pain. Unbelievable. And speaking of characters that we will meet or hear about later, Seamus Finnigan’s mother is here. And famously, Seamus and Harry clash because of his mother and the growing threat around Hogwarts; we know that she does not support Dumbledore. But at the Quidditch World Cup, she’s thrilled to be flying the colors of Ireland, which I assume is just kind of green. But yes, it’s fun to pop by her.

Lexi: The fact that on all this land, and all these hundreds of tents, there is only one tap marked on the other side of the field, so our trio has to walk quite a distance, stand in a long line, fill up their pots and pans, and then dredge on back. And I’m just going to say, I’m a Muggle, and I wouldn’t want to do that. I would definitely be one of those witches who would just pretend like I’m not doing magic, but I would totally be doing magic. [laughs]

Eric: Aguamenti that.

Micah: So literally when I was reading this… I don’t know if anybody else watches Survivor.

Andrew: Oh, I’ve gotten into it. Yes, yeah.

Micah: You have? Okay, cool. But when they have to walk to the water tap to get fresh water from the well, this very much reminded me of that. And these people are not on a deserted island somewhere in the South Pacific.

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Nicole: They literally have Aguamenti. Mr. Weasley playing with matches; I mentioned this earlier, but I just can so vividly see this man having the time of his life. Who needs Disney World when you have Arthur with matches?

Andrew: They’re fun to light.

Micah: I played with matches as a kid. [laughs] I got into a lot of trouble.

Andrew: And you turned out fine!

[Lexi laughs]

Andrew: I bet you have some burn marks on your fingers, but you turned out fine other than that.

Micah: No, the other people do.

[Everyone laughs]

Lexi: I love the mention of the magic carpet as a family vehicle. I just love these familiar magical devices – from Aladdin, “A Whole New World” – just pop up like this in the story. And then, of course, the foreshadowing about all of Crouch’s ancestors. They’ve always abided strictly by the law, except, hey, he doesn’t, really, so I just love that little bit there. And lastly, to wrap us up here, I have one more little deep dive here into the world-building of our story. So Omni… Omnioculars… wow, I do not know how to say that. [laughs]

Andrew: Omnioculars is how I say it, personally.

Nicole: Omnioculars.

Lexi: Omnioculars seem very expensive for what they are. They cost 10 Galleons. And I just want to give you all a little list here of what other things in the wizarding world cost, just to give you some price comparisons here. Apparition lesson program, which is a multi-week program, it costs 12 Galleons. The Advanced Potion-Making book, that costs nine Galleons. But then a wand, the most important thing that any witch or wizard uses, it only costs seven Galleons. However, a unicorn hair that goes into the wand costs 10 Galleons, which gives me some serious questions about the profit margin, but we’ll put a pin in that for right now. So 10 Galleons equal out to about 50 pounds or $73.50. And Harry bought three of them. They never use them again. And I really just hope his friends use them when watching him in the Triwizard Tournament.

Andrew: [laughs] I have so many thoughts here. First of all, maybe the wand is very cheap maybe because it’s subsidized by the Ministry. Just a random thought that popped into my head. The Omnioculars, they’re very high tech. I mean, you can rewind, right? You can do the instant replay thing. It’s almost like buying a high-tech camera.

Micah: You can slow down.

Andrew: You can slow down time. Yeah, I think they’re very cool. It is hilarious that they use them once and then never again. It reminds me of like, you go to a concert and you buy a souvenir T-shirt or something, and half the people who buy those things never wear them again. [laughs]

Laura: Yeah. I mean, I will say, merch that is sold at events like this does tend to be overpriced. But I agree with the point, Lexi, about cost and value in the wizarding world being extremely inconsistent in general, when you think about things like… I mean, you have this perfect list; I don’t even need to come up with anything else. It just doesn’t make all that much sense when you really start breaking it down, unless Ollivander is buying supplies in bulk, and so he gets…

Lexi: Maybe.

Laura: I don’t know.

Eric: He makes his wands.

Micah: Well, it’s also another commentary on the Weasleys’ financial situation, too, right? Because Ron is somewhat embarrassed of the fact that Harry is going to buy this for him. And he turns around, and I think he says, like, “I won’t get you a Christmas present” or something along those lines, but…

Andrew: For ten years. [laughs]

Micah: Yeah. But Harry is just joking around.

Laura: No, it’s like, it’s not that serious, Harry. You’re rich. Calm down.

[Lexi laughs]

Andrew: Right. Maybe the Omnioculars say “Quidditch World Cup” on them too. That would be cool.

Laura: That would be.

Nicole: Ooh, branded.

Micah: And the year, right? Maybe, yeah. But I just feel like, having gone through this whole discussion, that it was really done such a disservice in the movies. I know we get a few seconds early on of being able to see the bit of diversity we see at the Quidditch World Cup, but it seems like for a TV show adaptation, they can do so much better. And one of the moments I’m really looking forward to is when the trail lights up, going to the actual Quidditch World Cup. I feel like that would be so fun to see on screen.

Nicole: The fact that they spent two seconds on “I love magic,” and not two seconds on anything else that they could have done.

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Eric: Listen, once you start playing that game, there’s no going back.

[Lexi and Nicole laugh]

Nicole: Too late. It’s too late.

Andrew: That was turned into a gif that’s been used again and again online. It’s a meme and it’s priceless.

Micah: That’s true.

Nicole: It’s the gift that keeps on giving.

Andrew: Yeah, you can’t put a price on that. [laughs]

Eric: I like that moment.


MVP of the Week


Andrew: All right, well, this has been a lot of fun, and now it’s time for MVP of the week.

[MVP of the Week music plays]

Andrew: And I’m going to give it to Crouch for calling Percy “Weatherby.” I think it’s pretty funny and puts him in his place.

Eric: My MVP also goes to Crouch, but this time for pressuring Bagman to do something about Bertha’s disappearance. Barty is kind of annoyed by him, but good for him.

Laura: I’m going to give mine to Bagman for giving young readers their first introduction to that annoying, useless, “Fake it until you make it” coworker.

Micah: Nice. No surprise, I’m giving it to Archie for liking a healthy breeze around his privates and not caring who knows it. To that I say: Be you, Archie. Be you.

Lexi: Oh man, that was mine too. That might be one of my favorite little random moments of the whole series. But mine is going to be Fred and George because of the bet that they made and how this is their first business attempt to get money. Big risk, big reward, and it worked.

Nicole: And I’m going to go with the wizarding tents, because unlike Laura, I am not a camper in the slightest.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Nicole: But this is the type of camping that would actually convince me to mingle with the outdoors.

[Seven-Word Summary music ends]

Andrew: I was gifted a camping tent two years ago, three years ago, and it’s yet to be opened. It really just needs to go on eBay at this point. Laura, would you like my camping tent?

Laura: I was going to say, send it to me. I’ll use it.

Andrew: I’ll throw a MuggleCast beanie in there. You’ll be warm in the tent over the whole visit.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Laura: Oh my gosh. It’s not like I already have four of them, but sure.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Andrew: I don’t know. If you have any feedback about today’s discussion, you can contact us by emailing or sending a voice memo recorded on your phone to MuggleCast@gmail.com, or by using our phone number, which is 1-920-3-MUGGLE. That’s 1-920-368-4453. And next week, we will discuss Goblet of Fire Chapter 8, “The Quidditch World Cup.”


Quizzitch


Andrew: And speaking of Quidditch, now it’s time for our weekly trivia game, Quizzitch.

[Quizzitch music plays]

Eric: Yes, we took a few weeks off, so we got a lot of entries this week. Last week’s question was: According to Percy Weasley, about how many languages does Mr. Crouch speak? The correct answer was over 200.

Andrew: All right, so I believe it’s my turn to do the names, right?

Eric: I think so, yes. Please, Andrew, be our guest here.

Andrew: Now here’s how you do it. This is how you move quickly through the list. [clears throat] Last week’s winners: HallowWolf; Hermione4ever; PeanutOnABroomStick; No Diggory I got to bag it up; Oliviathehufflepuff; Remembralls are fun but Accio is quicker; Luke the 12 year old; Micah tricked us again even though I like Famous Amos…

[Laura and Micah laugh]

Andrew: … MMRTG a.k.a Multi-Mission Radiostope Thermoelectric Generator I just wrote that to make you say it…

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: [takes a deep breath] … Dobby stole my socks; Elizabeth K… one normal name, excellent. Andrew Sims canceled for magical creature cruelty read more on page six; SoltheSoulSucker; Percy Weatherby; Am I going crazy or is Eric slacking by giving everyone else the job of reading Quizzitch names… yes. Barty we hardly knew ye; Barty is a Duolingo maven says Percy; Carly; Cedric dies and becomes a sparkly vampire…

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: … WhoIsBabysittingCrookshanks; There no one else Percy would Weather-by; and Weatherbitch, where’s my tea?

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: That’s the first and last time I’m doing that, even though that was fun. That was fun, though.

Lexi: I have questions. [laughs]

Laura: You did well.

Andrew: This segment started as a nice thing where, “Oh, congratulations to Anna, Laura, Mark,” and then slowly one person after the other started coming up with a surprising nickname, and now that’s what it’s devolved into. And they’re a lot of fun to read.

Nicole: That was unhinged chaos, and I’m so here for it.

Lexi: I love it! I absolutely love that. Oh my gosh.

Andrew: [laughs] I’m glad.

Eric: Maybe we’ll do a week where people can only submit their legal names.

[Eric and Lexi laugh]

Laura: No, that’s so boring.

Andrew: You must submit your photo ID.

Eric: Yeah, photo ID along your name to play Quizzitch.

Andrew: That should go over well.

Eric: No, no, we love Quizzitch and all the people who enter it, and speaking of, here is the next week’s question: What broomstick does Harry see advertised as being “for all the family” at the Quidditch World Cup? And submit your answer to us on the MuggleCast website, MuggleCast.com/Quizzitch, or go to the MuggleCast website and click on “Quizzitch” from the top nav bar. Thank you so much.

Andrew: Nicole and Lexi, this has been amazing. Thank you for joining us. This was so fun.

Nicole: Thank you for having us.

Lexi: Yes, thank you.

Andrew: Thank you for all the theories, all the research, all the energy. It was perfect. Where can we find Fantasy Fangirls online?

Nicole: We are on every podcasting platform if you search “Fantasy Fangirls,” and a lot of people like watching us on YouTube because apparently we make crazy facial expressions, so we are on there as well, also at Fantasy Fangirls.

Lexi: And you can find us at Fantasy Fangirls.com. We are also very active on TikTok and Instagram at @FantasyFangirlsPod.

Andrew: Awesome. Yeah, y’all are killing it on TikTok in particular; that’s where I see you, at least. Oh my gosh, just well done. Very well done. It’s hard to grow a podcast these days; it’s an issue a lot of people struggle to figure out, and you two just killed it with the TikTok and Instagram, the social media posts that you do.

Eric: Congratulations on your success.

Nicole: We sacrificed the right goat to the TikTok algorithm gods. That’s how I feel.

[Lexi laughs]

Eric: Ohh.

Nicole: That’s how this has worked out in the last ten weeks.

Micah: I’m just going to say, it’s a very good thing that you saved sacrificing a goat to the end of the show as opposed to bring it up earlier on.

Eric: Yeah, we love goats here.

[Lexi laughs]

Nicole: Oh, thank God. Okay, good. Glad to close it out.

Eric: We have stuffed goats nearby. There’s always a stuffed goat.

Andrew: It’s another running joke here on MuggleCast.

Laura: They’re our mascot. [laughs]

Eric: That’s what I had to do to become famous on TikTok? Just kill this guy? I don’t think I could do it.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Nicole: Sometimes it’s not worth fame. It’s fine.

[Lexi laughs]

Andrew: No, I mean, in all seriousness, I think you two could teach some sort of masterclass or online course on growing a podcast through TikTok.

Laura: For sure.

Andrew: Chef’s kiss on how you’ve done that. We’re impressed.

Nicole: Thank you. That means a lot.

Lexi: Thank you.

Andrew: I think I’m going to hop on Fantasy Fangirls in the next month or something like that, so listeners, stay tuned for that. We’ll talk about Fourth Wing and crossover there with the world of Harry Potter. Couple reminders before we wrap up on our end, visit MuggleCast.com for transcripts, social media links, our full episode archive, our favorite episodes, and to contact us. And don’t forget, the MuggleCast and Millennial overstock store is now open; MuggleMillennial.etsy.com is where you can get one-of-a-kind MuggleCast gifts while supplies last, and the next two weeks is the time to order if you want Santa Andrew and Eric to get your gift there before Christmas. Him and I are the ones shipping this stuff out. If you enjoy MuggleCast and think other Muggles would, too, tell a friend about the show. And we would also appreciate if you left us a review in your favorite podcast app. We’d also appreciate your support on Patreon, Patreon.com/MuggleCast, or if you’re an Apple Podcasts subscriber, you can tap into the show and hit subscribe, and you’ll get ad-free and early access to each episode. All right, that does it. Thanks, everybody, for listening. I’m Andrew.

Eric: I’m Eric.

Micah: I’m Micah.

Laura: I’m Laura.

Nicole: I’m Nicole.

Lexi: And I’m Lexi.

Andrew: Bye, everyone. Thanks again, Fantasy Fangirls.

Laura: Bye, y’all.

Transcript #636

 

MuggleCast 636 Transcript

 

Transcript for MuggleCast Episode #636, You Are Boot-iful (GOF Chapter 6, The Portkey)


Show Intro


[Show music plays]

Andrew Sims: Welcome to MuggleCast, your weekly ride into the wizarding world fandom. I’m Andrew.

Eric Scull: I’m Eric.

Micah Tannenbaum: I’m Micah.

Laura Tee: And I’m Laura.

Andrew: Grab your dirtiest boots that you’re willing to part with, because this week we are diving into Goblet of Fire Chapter 6, “The Portkey.” This week’s episode is also being released Thanksgiving week here in America, so Happy Thanksgiving. We’re thankful for y’all.

Eric: Do you know what I’m thankful for, Andrew? I’m thankful for all of these fun intros we have here going on.

Laura: Same.

Micah: And welcome back, Andrew.

Andrew: Thanks. I’m thankful to not be sick tonight, so I’m thankful for that as well. Let’s pretend we were in the wizarding world and turkeys didn’t exist. What would be on the big platter in the center of the table instead of a turkey in the wizarding world?

Eric: I’ve got something.

Laura: I’ve got a dark thing.

Micah: Look, this might not be a popular opinion. And we’re on Thursday night recordings now, so this is slightly unhinged. But I’m going to go with owls.

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: There’s plenty of them.

Laura: Oh my God.

Andrew: A big ol’ owl for you.

Micah: Yeah.

Eric: It wasn’t so much the shock of you saying owls, Micah; it was you saying, “There’s plenty of them” as if to justify.

[Eric and Micah laugh]

Laura: Are there plenty of them? I don’t know if I would say that.

Eric: I do get where you’re coming from, though, right? Because there’s a turkey surplus, except for the one that gets a pardon every year. Isn’t that something they tell…? Because you can hunt animals that there’s a surplus of.

Andrew: There’s a good supply of turkeys this year. The price of turkeys is actually down this year. That’s a fact. That’s true.

Eric: Wow.

Andrew: Yeah, I would go with a baby hippogriff. Because obviously, a hippogriff is going to be way too big, so a newborn. [laughs] This sounds so bad.

Eric: Somebody has to kill it. [laughs]

Laura: Andrew, I just want you to know Evanna Lynch is never going to come on our show again.

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Eric: Forget about the Protego Foundation. Forget about all of these allies that we’ve built up over these years. Asking this question is a no-no.

Micah: So Andrew, I’m curious: Do you bow to it before you slit its throat, or after?

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Wow.

Laura: Oh my God.

Andrew: Okay, I would not be doing this myself. I would be… ugh.

Eric: You pay somebody to do it.

Andrew: This is so grim for a wholesome Thanksgiving episode.

Eric: I had a cute one, which was going to be… it’s still sad.

Andrew: [laughs] Yeah.

Eric: But you know those little birds that can appear and disappear, the Diricawl?

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: So they’re short and pudgy, but I imagine that maybe one if it got too big, it would be a little slow and couldn’t Disapparate in time, so they’d catch it. And that would be the equivalent of a Thanksgiving turkey. Plus, because it’s bigger, it would feed a family. So I can imagine it being a Diricawl.

Andrew: Oh, man. Okay, I like that. How about you, Laura?

Laura: So I feel like if we’re thinking about the wizarding world in 2023 terms, I would like to think that at this point, the wizarding world has caught up with the meatless protein phenomenon that we have here in the Muggle world.

Andrew: This part’s for Evanna and all of our vegetarian listeners.

Eric: Laura single-handedly saving our allies and our alliances.

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: I know, I’m over here trying to dig us out of this hole, because I was like, “Oh my God, she’s never going to want to come here again.” [laughs]

Eric: It’s a thankless job, but thank you.

Laura: Yeah, you’re welcome. But yeah, I mean, so I will say, initially, I was thinking dark on this one too. I was like, “What about the qilin?” [laughs]

Andrew: The qilin, yeah.

Laura: Yeah, because you could just say maybe that can kill two birds with one stone, you know?

Andrew: [laughs] I see what you did there. Yeah, I like that idea too. There could be a Beyond Meat version of hippogriff meat. I don’t know what hippogriff meat would taste like, or any of these would taste like, but there could be a rip-off, a fake alternative.

Eric: Maybe it’s made from dirigible plums. They do have a use, like plum base… you know how seitan…?

Micah: No, that’s like a side that I don’t want to taste.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: No, okay, okay. Well, you know what? I have another one, though. I think I have the best answer, besides Laura’s very obviously, superior meat-free. The Occamy. You know how it grows to fit the size of whatever it’s in? So you’d only need one, and it could feed the whole wizarding world. You just put it in a big cathedral or something, and then it fills the space, and then you’re like, “Okay, thank you. We give thanks.” And then that’d be it.

Andrew: That is a beautiful one.

Laura: Well, and then, Eric, you just made me think of Gamp’s Laws of Elemental Transfiguration, right? That’s what it’s called. And how you can’t create food from nothing, but you can duplicate food if you already have some. So maybe the most realistic answer here is to say yes, we do have that Diricawl, that hippogriff, whatever, but we only have one, and we just multiply it and give everyone one.

Eric: In fact, in the wizarding world, Thanksgiving is the most beast-honoring day because there’s just one beast…

[Laura laughs]

Eric: … and they’re like, “This year, we’ve picked the Occamy. This year, we’ve…” and they’re like, “Thank you,” and then they ship it around the world. I think we saved it.

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: Look, I’m just thinking that… look at Errol in the series. He’s on his way out.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: Are you about to say he’s useless, so…?

Eric: Micah is still like, “If we have to kill one bird, it’s got to be that pathetic one.”

Micah: But there is an interesting point that was brought up in the Discord by Erica, who said the conversation made her realize that I don’t think we ever see any wizards eating the meat of magical creatures in the books. It’s always your traditional pork, chicken, beef that we all are accustomed to.

Eric: That’s true. At Hogwarts they don’t serve magical animal products as food.

Andrew: So maybe there is an agreement that those beasts are not to be hunted and eaten.

Eric: Maybe the house-elves refuse to do it.

Andrew: Oh, that would make sense too. Interesting.

Eric: Like a magical creature cannot carve up another magical creature.

Micah: Let’s be real, they don’t have much choice in anything.

[Laura and Micah laugh]

Eric: No, they do not have any choice. This is all grim and sad and not at all… we opened with dirty boots; I thought that was awesome. I thought that was a peak. Now I’m just bummed out.

Andrew: And we’re thankful for you all. Let’s just delete this whole section. This is too sad and upsetting.

Eric: Okay, this is going away forever. No one will ever know this happened.

Andrew: I apologize. This was my idea. I should have been sick again this week, I think.

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Laura: No, no, no.

Micah: I think it was fine.

Eric: Aww, we never said that.

Andrew: [laughs] I’m just kidding.

Laura: No, no, no, I think it’s great.

Andrew: All right. Well, let’s move out of this subject. Hope everybody who is celebrating has a nice Thanksgiving. Because of Thanksgiving, it falls on a Thursday; that is our new recording day, so we will be off next week. However, we have plenty of bonus MuggleCast installments available over on our Patreon, and in fact, after today’s episode, we’re going to record a new one. Right, Micah? What’s on tap?

Micah: Yeah, so one of the things that I thought would be fun to talk about as we’re reading Goblet of Fire is that back in the day, we were all just youngins working for MuggleNet. One of the most exciting things was always learning what the new title was going to be for the upcoming book. However, there’s a number of different options that were on the table for every book. Let’s face it; “Goblet of Fire” was not the first choice for this book. So we’re going to have a little bit of fun talking about what was the initial choice and some of the other options that were on the table for the fourth book, so it’ll be a good time. Good discussion. We’ll reminisce a bit about our times working for MuggleNet too.

Andrew: So you can check that out at Patreon.com/MuggleCast. And you can get this bonus audio content within your favorite podcast app, including Spotify; that’s a relatively recent addition. We can’t do this show without your support. So thank you to everybody who supports us on Patreon or Apple Podcasts. By the way, one of our listeners who’s listening live on Patreon tonight, Liza, says the Thanksgiving conversation was genuinely hilarious and she’s vegan. So we’ve got the approval of at least one vegan.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Safe, I think.

Eric: Phew, okay.

Laura: I hope you know I was half joking.

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Andrew: Oh, and Liza also points out that Evanna said she’s dating a non-vegan on the last episode of The ChickPeeps, so I think we’re in the clear, y’all. We can rest easy this holiday season.

Eric: Yeah, it’s not make or break with the relationship. Well, let’s be sure to send her a card anyway.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Yes, a card with AI art that shows a baby hippogriff on a Thanksgiving dinner table.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: That’s the fastest way to get cancelled, actually.

Andrew: So a little reminder, too: We announced this last week, the MuggleCast overstock store is now open. If you’ve ever wanted one of our cool physical gifts that we send to patrons, but maybe you don’t support us on Patreon, we are selling leftover physical gifts from years past, including the MuggleCast beanie – that’s our newest one – the sweet 16 wood car, album art signed by the four of us, T-shirts, socks, and more. This is the MuggleCast and Millennial overstock store; that’s the podcast that Laura and I do. Visit MuggleMillennial.Etsy.com, or you can click the link in the show notes to see the store and purchase your favorites. And once these are gone, these are gone. We are not making these again, so please check them out. Great holiday gift idea, by the way. Maybe you would like one of these on your holiday list. Here you go; send people a link to the store.

Eric: If I didn’t have 50 of them burning a hole in my back porch, the MuggleCast wood car.

[Laura and Micah laugh]

Eric: It’s still one of the most creative gifts we’ve ever given, and it’s fun to assemble. I had fun doing the instructions and a little video where you can watch it happen. Also, they’re infinitely customizable; you can paint these things!

Micah: I was actually going to say the beanie. I think that just given the time of year, most folks are facing a little bit of colder weather. And even if you’re not, if you live in a warm place, the AC gets turned up too high…

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: … throw your beanie on. Wear it at night when you go to bed.

Andrew: It’s started getting colder here, and I’m actually using the beanie now. And darn, that thing is comfortable. That is a cozy beanie.

Laura: It really is.

Andrew: Don’t miss out on that beanie. Now Eric is wearing it himself.

Eric: It sure is.

Micah: Eric is modeling it.

Eric: Here we go. Keep warm.

Andrew: It’s really nice. Don’t miss out. That’s perfect for Christmas.

Micah: I’ve actually gotten a lot of compliments on it, too, from colleagues who’ve seen it.

Andrew: Oh, cool!

Laura: I was going to recommend the socks, personally. The knit on them is so nice. And they also have our classic iPod shadow design on them from the very first T-shirt we ever came out with, so those are really nice and well made too.

Andrew: MuggleMillennial.Etsy.com. Don’t miss out on these lovely gifts. So before we start, we are doing Goblet of Fire Chapter 6, “The Portkey” today, and we would be remiss if we did not mention that the Goblet of Fire movie was released 18 years ago this week.

Eric and Laura: Wow.

Laura: Oh my God.

Eric: You know what that means? It’s the 18th anniversary of “Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Come on!”

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Andrew: Yes. This is the 18th anniversary of our first live podcast in New York City.

Eric: Very cool. Very cool.


Chapter by Chapter: Seven-Word Summary


Andrew: So as always, we will start this installment of Chapter by Chapter with our seven-word summary.

[Seven-Word Summary music plays]

Andrew: The…

Laura: … Quidditch…

Micah: … World…

Eric: … is…

Andrew: … excited…

Laura: … regarding…

Micah: … Voldemort.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Oh, okay. Wow.

Eric: Okay.

Andrew: All right. Happy Thanksgiving, once again, everybody.

[Micah laughs]

[Seven-Word Summary music ends]

Eric: And which one of these are we going to review at the end of the book?

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Laura: This one.

Micah: Hey, there are a lot of chapters still to go.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: That’s true. This is only Chapter 6.

Eric: All right.


Chapter by Chapter: Main Discussion


Laura: Let’s get into our chapter. Specifically, I want to start out this week’s discussion by talking about wizarding modes of transport. We hear quite a bit about this from Arthur Weasley, as he’s explaining how people are getting to the Quidditch World Cup. And I think we learn a little bit more about the ways that wizards travel, right? We’re familiar with brooms and the Hogwarts Express and the Floo Network at this point, but in this chapter, we’re learning a couple of other ways that magical folk get around. First of all, it is noted that 100,000 people come from around the world to the Quidditch World Cup. And I’ll confess, when I read this, when I reread it, I was surprised, because when you think about international World Cup events and the crowds those draw, it’s millions of people who turn up for those things. But then I had to remind myself, “Well, this is a significantly smaller portion of the global population.” But it just made me wonder exactly how many magical people are there in the world?

Eric: We don’t know.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: But I think that, given that there were said to be about 1,000 people at Hogwarts 25 years ago when the author was asked – and that’s even less people than were just at my high school, which is four years – if you want to, there might be some math we could do there, but it’s considerably less. And not only that, but the 100,000 people that are coming are still a huge threat to breaking the Statute of Secrecy, and so I think on days like this, the Ministry is glad there’s only 100,000 people turning up. I did do some math, and it’s only twice the size of Dodger Stadium. Dodger Stadium holds about 56,000.

Andrew: “Only” twice the size.

Micah: You raise a really good point, though, Eric, because all of this needs to be done in secrecy. It’s not like your traditional Olympics, let’s say, where people are able just to fly in from all over the world and not have to worry worry about whether or not they’re seen by other people. So that’s a major factor in all of this.

Andrew: Yeah. And I mean, I think when we were reading Goblet of Fire for the first time, it may have been harder to fathom 100,000 wizards from around the world coming in, because those are… you wouldn’t think there were that many wizards, I don’t think. But now that we’re in this post-Book 7 world where we’ve learned so much more about the wizarding world, the schools around the world, this number is easier for me to believe.

Laura: Yeah. I think as a kid, when you’re reading this, that feels like a huge number. And I mean, it is a big number. But relative to this kind of event, it seems pretty small, from our standpoint.

Andrew: That’s a good point too. Because as a child, when you’re reading this, you’ve never been to something with 100,000 people, maybe not even something with 1,000 people.

Eric and Laura: Right.

Laura: Well, to Eric’s point about the Statute of Secrecy, one of the things that the Ministry does to protect itself from the risk of exposure by all of these wizarding weirdos navigating the Muggle world to get to the Quidditch World Cup is by mandating staggered arrivals, so depending on the ticket you bought, how good your ticket was, how expensive it was, some people had to get there really early. So if you bought cheap seats, you had to get there up to two weeks before the match even started.

Eric: Is it just me or does this feel like San Diego Comic Con all over again?

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Getting in line for the big Twilight panel?

Eric: Do you want to see, yeah, the Pixar panel, whatever the big panel is going to be?

Andrew: I would hate being there two weeks early. I guess you could see it as a nice peaceful camping opportunity, but other than that, this sounds like hell.

[Micah laughs]

Andrew: And it’s really crappy that the lower income people would have to get there two weeks early in order to attend the Cup. That is not right or fair. I see why they need to slowly have people trickle in, but still, that’s pretty poor.

Micah: That was my main point with this, is that it seems somewhat counterintuitive. To the point that Andrew is raising, you’d assume the people with cheaper tickets don’t – not in every case – but most of them wouldn’t have the means to put themselves up for two weeks somewhere.

Eric: That’s a good point.

Micah: So forcing them to come in early is not fair.

Eric: Yeah, I think it must come down to how a lot of things in the wizarding world come free or cheaply. We were talking earlier about duplicating food, but living situations are… I’ve never heard of wizarding world real estate being an issue. I mean, if they are on a hill camping, and as long as they can conceal themselves from any Muggles that would walk by, one would think that they would be at least permitted as wizards to stay there indefinitely.

Andrew: Who has two weeks to basically camp out for the event to start? You’ve got to work, you’ve got school…

Micah: Take off work.

Laura and Micah: Yeah.

Laura: That was my thing. I was like, “What about these people’s jobs? How are they supposed to go to work?”

Eric: I would argue we don’t know enough about wizarding professions. The Ministry people are probably working it, but…

Andrew: But they probably get a lot of vacation time because things are just better in the wizarding world. Here in America, it’s like, you get four days a year. In the wizarding world, it’s probably like, you get three months.

Laura: Well, I have bad news for you, Andrew; there are countries around the world where the reality that you’re describing – or excuse me, the fantasy you’re describing – is a reality.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Andrew: Yeah, I know, I see a lot of Europeans doing a lot of vacationing and I’m like, “How do I get that life?” [laughs]

Eric: Yeah. I was going to say, Andrew, didn’t you see the most recent email from HR? Our four days a year is actually going down to three because of costs.

Andrew: Oh, wonderful. Excellent.

Eric: Yeah, but a big thing for me… so we talked about… I completely agree it’s a class issue. Although, I do think a lot of people who had to be here for two weeks probably aren’t suffering, especially if they can Apparate in and out. It’s unclear exactly what they’re doing two weeks in advance there. It’s just a matter of, again, the Statute of Secrecy. But I want to hear right now, is this better or worse than Ticketmaster’s verified fan whole shenanigans?

Andrew: [laughs] This is actually better. This is better.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: Because A, nothing is worse than verified fan, because you have no control of it. At least with getting there two weeks early, you’re like, “I’m in control. I am deciding. I’ll get there two weeks early and I’m guaranteed to get in.” Verified fan, I keep trying to get tickets to Adele in Vegas; I keep getting rejected. Keep getting waitlisted. It’s not my fault. I’m a real fan! But I can’t get the tickets. If I could camp out for two weeks, maybe I would, and then I am in control. [sings] Hello, it’s me… camping out for two weeks to guarantee myself some tickets.

Eric: It’s so low-tech, too, and it just reminds me of… God, kids these days probably wouldn’t know it. Oh, great, we’re officially old; I said “Kids these days.” [laughs] But Black Friday, where you used to see people camping out outside Best Buy the day before or overnight to be there at 7 a.m. when they open to get one of the first 500 HD TVs when they first came out. That to me must have been the inspiration for what this became in the book. It was published in 2000, so it must have been something akin to how do people deal with… or maybe the Olympics were like that too; maybe people were camping out. I really don’t know.

Andrew: My mom camped out for a Nintendo Wii.

Eric: Ooh.

Micah: I was just thinking more so along sporting lines, right? When you have these major events, usually… like in the case of the Quidditch World Cup, it would be the main event, but there’s other things that are happening around the main event, right? So if you’re there for two weeks, hopefully, there’s other things that you can take advantage of that you can go and do as a fan of Quidditch that you otherwise would never have the opportunity to do because this is an event that only happens… what is it, once every however many years? I don’t remember off the top of my head. But I would just hope there’s more fan stuff for these people to take advantage of.

Laura: Well, when we think about how people are actually getting to the World Cup, though, we’re introduced to a couple of concepts by Arthur. First thing he does is tell us that there are 200 of these things called Portkeys placed around Britain, right? These are inanimate objects that are unobtrusive, kind of unassuming looking, but they can actually transport you to a particular destination at a specific time. What I thought was so interesting about this was the I think British point of view we see here, where it’s like, “Yeah, we have 200 of these placed around Britain,” but we also know Arthur says people are coming from all around the world to do this. So it’s not just British people that are going to be traveling by Portkey. And it makes me wonder, does the British Ministry have to collaborate with other countries’ Ministries to get Portkeys set up there and link them to the Portkeys in Britain to get people where they’re going? Just seems like a logistical nightmare.

Eric: I think that the other countries, especially those that are involved in sending their teams to the Quidditch World Cup, Ireland and Bulgaria, they probably have also huge swaths of the people that are coming to represent. So given that we also see a smattering of other international people on the ground later when Harry is roaming, and there’s that guy with the magic carpets and all of this, it really does seem like the other governments would have to be helping the British Ministry just to get their own citizens to the Cup and back.

Laura: That’s also a mutual benefit, right? None of them want the International Statute of Secrecy to be breached. [laughs] Not good for anyone, no matter where you hail from. But Andrew, you had an interesting point about the Portkey’s transportation timer.

Andrew: Yeah, this chapter is our introduction to Portkeys and Apparition, and so we’re learning little details about each mode of magical transportation. And we learn in this chapter that the Portkey has a sort of transportation timer where you have to be holding it at a particular time in order for it to transport you. I do wonder if this is the best option, for it to be based around a time, because it seems like – speaking of nightmares – a safety nightmare for anyone who might accidentally pick it up. And in this chapter, I guess it’s maybe Arthur, he says, “Oh, it’s just an old boot. Nobody’s going to bother touching it.” I feel terrible for that boot. That is insulting to that boot, or any other Portkey, that it’s too ugly for somebody to even pick up to properly dispose of it in the trash can. “You are so ugly, nobody will even help clean up earth by touching you.”

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Laura: I really love how you personified the boot. I did not think that’s where we were going with this conversation. [laughs]

Andrew: I’ve seen Toy Story too many times. I personify…

Eric: “I don’t wanna play with you anymore.”

Laura: Aww.

Andrew: [laughs] Right. “I don’t wanna touch you.” No, but really, let’s say the boot wasn’t worthless and untouchable in the eyes of Arthur Weasley. This is not a safe system because some Muggle could be holding it and could be transported.

Laura: Yeah. And to that point, Andrew, this is another example of Muggles being characterized as not paying enough attention to pick up on anything magical. So I was thinking the same thing. I was like, “What if some environmental group was out cleaning up rubbish out of the countryside and just happened to pick up this boot at the precise time that it travels?”

Andrew: Right. Of course, they all had a lengthy debate over who was going to dare to touch the boot, and then somebody lost the bet, and then, yeah, that poor person is transported against their will.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: Trying to seek out what the real world thing to be touched on this might be. Because I do that anytime a new magical concept is introduced, like boggarts, for instance, being the monster under your bed you always feared as a kid. I think of Portkeys being… just this idea that they’re out in the middle of the countryside where no one else is, that if you ever had somebody going to the middle of nowhere where nobody else is, it feels weird. And you’re more likely, if you have a friend that went to the middle of nowhere, to come back and hear just a wild story about how they ended up somewhere unexpected and barely got back. It just seems like the wildest things happen at random and derelict buildings and things, so it seems to be maybe a mention to how some of the things Muggles might have encountered are actually Portkeys, or a wizard was supposed to be using them or forgot it was left there.

Laura: Oh, I kind of love that.

Micah: Right. It’s reminiscent of “One man’s trash is another man’s treasure.”

[Eric laughs]

Micah: At least the lens through which this is all being written in that, of course, a Muggle would just brush past a dirty old boot sitting out in the middle of the field. But I wonder if we peeled it back a little bit – and this might be a bit of a stretch – but do you think the Portkey is at all reflective of the class status of Arthur and his family?

Laura: Ooh.

Micah: Dirty old boot, not a lot of money. I can’t see the Malfoys using a dirty old boot to make their way to the Quidditch World Cup.

Eric: They would transfigure it into a stiletto or a nicer shoe first, and then they would use it.

Laura: Yeah. I mean, they’re probably not traveling by Portkey, knowing them.

Andrew: Right.

Micah: True.

Andrew: Not to mention having to travel to the Portkey to begin with. That would be a hassle for a rich family.

Eric: That was the hard part. Yeah, getting up early, I think, also is an indication of their class, to your point, Micah. Even if there are other Portkeys that other families are taking, the 7:45 a.m. one is definitely for the poorer people.

Andrew: The Malfoys would be taking the private jet equivalent.

Eric: They would be taking their peacocks. Remember how Malfoy Manor has peacocks strutting?

[Everyone laughs]

Laura: Oh, yeah.

Eric: Which, now we need AI art of Lucius and Draco and Narcissa flying on peacocks to the Quidditch World Cup. Please don’t disappoint me, Micah.

Laura: You know, Micah, now that you bring that up, it makes me think of the moment where they meet Amos and Cedric Diggory, and Amos just assumes that Harry and Hermione are also Arthur’s children. And we already know, we’ve heard several times throughout the series, that the Weasleys are just known for having a gaggle of children and people can’t really keep track of how many. So I think this speaks to your point, too, Micah, that somebody like Amos Diggory would look at Arthur and be like, “Oh, yes, there’s another couple of kids; must be his. That’s what they do.”

Eric: I also want to draw attention to the thing we’ve talked about before, about how rushed the author felt in writing this book. And so what if Amos’s line about “And these are all yours, too, I suspect, Arthur?” might be a reference to that Weasley cousin that was going to be introduced in this book and was cut. Maybe he’d be like, “No, these aren’t mine, but we have a cousin we’re meeting” originally, or something like that.

Laura: Interesting.

Andrew: That was a really funny line, too, the “No, just the redheads are mine.”

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Eric: I wonder if as a Weasley, you’re forbidden to change the color of your hair. Like if Bill, he has long hair, but if he had changed it from red, Molly would have flipped on him.

Andrew: And in a situation like the Quidditch World Cup where there’s tons of people, I bet Arthur and Molly really like that their kids have red hair because it’s easy to spot them. It’s like when you go to Disneyworld and you see a family wearing neon green T-shirts, all the same one, so they can easily be spotted. That’s what’s happening here maybe.

Eric: We went to Yellowstone and my mom wore bright pink. It was very easy to spot her. [laughs]

Laura: Yeah, I’m sure.

Micah: This is good for the next time we all go to Universal together.

Laura: Oh, that’s right. We have to pick a group color. Let’s think about it.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Micah: Before we move off of Portkeys, one of the things I just wanted to call attention to is that this is clearly to set up the Portkey that we see used at the end of Goblet of Fire. And we all know that J.K. Rowling is very good at including things in a passing mention, and that’s pretty much what this is for this particular Portkey. And who knows? I don’t think it was ever in my mind as Harry was participating in the third task that the Triwizard cup was going to be a Portkey that took him to the Riddle graveyard, right? So it just goes to show you that we should always be paying attention to what’s on the page, much like the last chapter, that dinner conversation.

Eric: Right. Well, and in this chapter as well, the Summoning Charm is introduced. Harry ends up using that in the first task and it comes in clutch, and Molly Weasley is using it to get candies out of Fred and George’s pockets. So there’s just a ton of that, stuff that’s going to come later in this book, things being hidden or introduced or shown for the first time here, and we don’t really know what it’s going to amount to. I will say, though, Micah, to your point, the Portkeys work differently in the beginning of the book versus at the end of the book. Not only is the Triwizard cup one presumably not timed, right, Harry is not there at a specific minute. Barty Crouch, Jr. is not checking back and forth to see Harry’s progress and, as far as we know, setting the timer to go off in the next 60 seconds. And the element of it being a return cup as well; the fact that Harry is able to touch the cup with Cedric’s body and take it back is very much also not something that’s introduced here. So even though we’re only a book apart, within the same book, it’s actually pretty inconsistent. So as a full introduction to Portkeys and how they work and all that stuff for use later, I think it actually falls short a little bit because these things don’t add up.

Micah: It’s inconsistent.

Eric and Laura: Yeah.

Micah: And that can also be to the point that you were talking about earlier about the author feeling rushed in her writing for this book.

Laura: Right. Well, we also learn… because we hear that some people obviously would prefer to Apparate to the Quidditch World Cup. But we also learn that there are some trade-offs when it comes to Apparition. It can be dangerous, but you also have to have a license in order to Apparate. And we learn a couple of people that Arthur is aware of who actually got fined for Apparating without a license, and to literally add insult to injury, they splinched themselves, meaning that they did not Apparate successfully and they left part of themselves behind.

Andrew: Do you think they made the noise that Voldemort makes in Deathly Hallows – Part 2? [imitates Voldemort’s grunts of pain]

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Those are so fun to make, by the way. I had a ball doing that with you a few weeks ago, Laura.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Eric: You’re really good at them.

Andrew: So anyone can Apparate, even if you don’t have a license. That’s what we’re gathering from here, right?

Laura: Right.

Eric: Well, I think it’s technically you can be capable of doing the magic, but…

Andrew: You really shouldn’t unless you have the license.

Eric: Yeah, as evidenced by the fact that these guys splinched themselves. If you aren’t going through the licensing process, then you’re not getting the most up-to-date helpful education on it, and so if you try and teach yourself how to, like, “I’m self taught,” and then you go and splinch yourself, it’s like, “Well, you should have just done the licensing course.”

Andrew and Micah: Yeah.

Laura: I mean, it’s just like how somebody can know how to drive but not have a driver’s license.

Eric: It is exciting to see the wizarding world put a lot of systems in place – or just one system in place – for something that they’re doing that’s unsafe. [laughs] That’s new. That’s exciting. You have to license for Apparition. That’s cool.

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: So we do have this connecting the threads moment here when Arthur is talking about these two gentlemen getting splinched, because we actually know that later on in Deathly Hallows, Ron goes on to get splinched when he, Harry, and Hermione are Disapparating to get to the Forest of Dean.

Eric: Again, it works a little differently. So Ron needs dittany so he doesn’t bleed to death. In this case, Arthur seems to be talking about the people being not at risk of bleeding to death necessarily. He says half of them was somewhere else, but it seems to be that maybe they’re magically protected, like if you just open a portal and half of you goes through, that the other half is… it seemed like they were still intact; they just weren’t physically in the same… I don’t know. It seems less grim when Arthur is talking about it here than what happened with Ron, which was very serious business.

Laura: Yeah, and it could be that he was trying to spare the kids the gruesome details. Also, I just always think about how nonchalant wizards are when they’re talking about pretty horrific stuff happening, like Dudley’s tongue swelling up inside of his mouth, for example. And Fred and George are just like, “Eh, he’ll be fine. It’s easy enough to fix.” And you hear Arthur talking about this, making light of the fact that these two people got splinched, and you’re like, “Oh, I see where the twins get it from, to be honest.” But there are a lot of people – we just talked about Portkeys – who take Portkeys because they either can’t or don’t want to Apparate because of the risks that come with it. But it made me wonder why, because presumably, Arthur can Apparate. We see him Apparate at other times, right? So why couldn’t he have just used side-along Apparition and made a few trips so that everybody could sleep in? These kids wake up before the sun’s even up and they start walking. [laughs]

Eric: It’s so unfair.

Laura: It’s awful.

Andrew: They’re kids, though, going to a very special event; they’ve got to earn it. I think it’s okay. That part doesn’t bother me. I do like your question, though: Why wouldn’t Arthur even consider side-along Apparition?

Eric: I think it wasn’t invented yet.

Andrew and Micah: Yeah.

Eric: Because the other thing, and we’re going to talk about this in a minute, but the other thing that leads me to believe it wasn’t invented yet is the sheer inconsistency. If you read this chapter of the book and ask yourself “In what year of the wizarding world does a Hogwarts student learn to Apparate?” It’s wildly different, because Percy only just passed, but Percy is out of Hogwarts. He passed year seven, last year. Fred and George are going for their tests next year, but they’re in the fifth year this year. So why should it be next year that they wait for the…? Unless it’s like the year it turns thing. So I just think between all of the people we hear about learning about Apparating, it’s not their fifth year in which they’re doing it. And so the fact that we know that Harry has the instructor at the end of… isn’t it Book 5? Or is it Book 6?

Laura: I think it’s Book 6. And I think the twins are actually sixth years in this, not fifth years.

Eric: So they’re two years ahead of Harry.

Laura: Yeah, because they were third years when Harry started.

Eric: But so for Percy to have just passed two weeks ago, though, he has already graduated Hogwarts though, right?

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: So he learned after his seventh year.

Micah: Yeah, but it’s also…

Laura: Maybe he failed the first time he took it.

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: And what is Cedric? He is a seventh year now, correct?

Eric: Cedric is described as just turning 17 or being about 17, so we assume seventh year?

Laura and Micah: Yeah.

Micah: Because it’s mentioned by Amos.

Laura: And we know you have to be of age.

Micah: Right. Amos mentions that he hasn’t passed his Apparition test yet either, so seventh year seems right.

Andrew: Yes.

Eric: And so then Cedric would have passed it at the end of his previous year. So yeah, I just think that everything to do with Apparition is still very new at the time this was written. It’s fun to actually pick out these little elements and be like, “Oh, that actually doesn’t line up with what happens to Harry later.”

Andrew: Anyone who had turned 17 by the day of the exam could take the exam, and if they pass, they received a license.

Laura: Yeah, so that’s why Hermione gets her license before… well, I don’t even know if we ever… we don’t see Harry and Ron get theirs.

Andrew: They don’t. Only Hermione. Look, man, it’s all about the journey. It’s not about the destination, it’s the journey.

[Laura and Micah laugh]

Andrew: Arthur wanted to give them a memorable experience, a nice hike to the boot. [laughs] So they’d never forget the way they entered the Quidditch World Cup. Honestly, though, it’s a good educational experience.

Micah: Also very reminiscent… I’m sure we’ve all been in the situation where maybe we’re taking a big trip, and we had to get up super early.

Andrew: Oh, yeah.

Micah: And it could even be… Thanksgiving is coming up. It could even be, “Oh, we’ve got to get up, we’ve got to get in the car and drive for hours to get to whomever’s house that we’re going to celebrate at…”

Andrew: Right.

Micah: It’s kind of like that.

Andrew: Amos got up really early. 2 a.m., he said, I believe, right?

Laura: Yeah, that’s right. And they walked too; that’s the crazy thing to me.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Laura: Cedric and his dad walked since two in the morning, and we know that it is at least late enough that Harry is starting to see a faint tinge of green light on the horizon where the sun is rising, so Cedric and Amos walked for like, five hours to get here.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Eric: They’re real outdoorsy types. They’re hard workers.

Andrew: Apparently.

Laura: True.

Micah: Right, and this is a once every four year event, presumably, but their country is hosting it, so it’s exciting. They don’t have a team that’s really in it that they’re cheering for, but there’s an excitement about it.

Laura: Agreed. Well, we were just talking about people failing their Apparition tests, people not having their license as soon as we might expect, based on their age, or based on their year at Hogwarts, but it seems like failing your Apparition test the first time might be fairly common. We learn that Charlie failed his test the first time. We know that Ron is going to fail his in a couple books’ time. Of course, we just chatted about Percy, but we get this great description of him Apparating from his bedroom downstairs every single morning just because he can.

Andrew: Obnoxious.

Laura: Okay, so here’s the thing; I’m actually going to defend it. And y’all know that I’m not really a big Percy fan. But this to me feels like classic teenage behavior; it reminds me of getting your driver’s license, and how you would make excuses or even just go out to do the smallest thing just so that you can get behind the wheel of the car and drive just because you could.

Eric: 100%. 100%.

Andrew: But what he’s doing is going downstairs in the same house.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: If we follow your line of thinking here, it’s like if I just got my driver’s license and I pulled my car out of the garage just to drive to the house next door ten feet away. That’s what’s happening with Percy. So I still think it’s obnoxious.

Eric: Oh, no. The carbon footprint alone is devastating.

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: But I think this is their closest equivalent to the experience of being newly licensed to drive a car.

Eric: And excited about it. Yeah, your independence, your freedom.

Andrew: It’s too small of a distance, in my opinion.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: If he was going to a neighbor’s or something, or maybe down the street, okay, but… mm-mm.

Micah: I’ll defend Percy slightly as well…

Andrew: Augh!

Micah: … because I do recall the twins do much of the same in the next book.

Eric: Yep.

Micah: And there’s not as much… I mean, I think it annoys Molly, from what I remember, but it’s not cast in necessarily the same light as Percy doing it. So it just goes to show you that there is favoritism shown towards the twins versus being shown to Percy, and in this case, they’re doing the exact same thing.

Eric: I will also add, based on last week, I talked about Percy’s home life being a complete mess that he resides at the Ministry because he’s escaping home. He’s probably Apparating downstairs to grab his toast for breakfast from his bedroom, and then Apparating back up to his bedroom. Because if he doesn’t, if he tries to take the stairs – you all know what I’m saying, I see it in all of your faces – his siblings are going to trip him, or taunt him, or prevent him, or block his path, or there’s going to be another toffee in the way, or something. Everyone’s turned the crosshairs onto Percy, and so maybe he’s just trying to leave as little of a footprint as possible.

Laura: Yeah, or just trying to avoid people in general, right? We can tell that he’s not really his family’s number one fan at this phase in the series. [laughs]

Micah: True. Though, as much as I defended him, I will say I’m sure there’s a part of him that thoroughly enjoys being able to do this in front of Fred and George.

Laura: Oh yeah, for sure. 100%. Well, Andrew, you had a transportation question.

Andrew: Which would we prefer if we had to pick one? Portkey or Apparition?

Micah: Who’d you rather? Portkey or Apparition?

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: No, I think…

Micah: Going back to last week.

Andrew: I like the Portkey from the idea of like, it’s kind of exciting to center your transportation plans around a particular object in time, I think. Actually, I was joking about “the journey” earlier, but I think that is part of the experience, especially when it comes to the Quidditch World Cup. Apparition, there’s some risk to it, whether or not you have your license. I’d rather take the safer route, I think, so long as I don’t have to get up at 2 a.m. to get to my Portkey, five hours away.

Eric: Yeah, Apparition seems to have way too many random variables that could go wrong, so I’m not choosing that anytime soon.

Andrew: So that’s two for the Portkey.

Laura: I’m going to say Apparition, personally. I get motion sickness, and the way the Portkey is described sounds awful to me. So I would just practice and make sure I’m really, really good…

[Eric laughs]

Laura: … before I try to Apparate any kind of significant distance. [laughs]

Micah: Yeah, I’m wondering if this is a Ravenclaw trait on some level, because I feel like ultimately, I’d go with Apparition as well. I just think it’s something, to your point, Laura, you’d have to make sure that you practice enough that you’re doing it safely. Though, that said, we see Newt and Jacob use a Portkey in Fantastic Beasts, and they’re obviously fully grown. And certainly Newt could take Jacob through side-along Apparition. We see him… actually, don’t they do that? Or does he go with Dumbledore? I forget.

Eric: Well, they have to cross the English Channel. And that’s the other aspect of this, because even if you’re an accomplished wizard, the distance makes it worse. It’s harder to do. That’s why Newt takes a ferry liner to get to New York at the beginning of the first movie; he can’t… your risk goes up exponentially based on distance.

Laura: Yeah, that’s why Leta is on the Titanic in the second movie.

[Everyone laughs]

Laura: Well, speaking of steamliners, we know that some wizards just take loads of Muggle transport. The Ministry somehow has to stagger this and put a cap on how many are doing it so they don’t draw too much attention to themselves. But I have to say, it’s hard for me to imagine this being completely discreet. Think of all the times we’ve seen wizards trying to dress like Muggles, and utterly failing. I’m also thinking of how rowdy sports fans get when there are large sporting events like this going on. No hate towards them; they’re just really, really excited.

Micah: And drunk.

Laura: You can tell when there’s a train full of people coming or going to a game, so I just wonder how much of a mess the Ministry gets to clean up after an event like this. And we know they’re obviously going to have a really big mess to clean up after this one, but in general, I just wonder how much damage control they have to do after a large event.

Eric: Yeah, for sure. I think, too, the event may be over, but their job is just beginning for sanitation crew, cleanup crew, all that kind of a thing. Although, it is funny to actually… I know we led with sort of this “Statute of Secrecy must be preserved,” but I wonder these days, in 2023, how much with conventions being a thing, that we’re all familiar with cosplay… I basically learn about half the conventions that are in Chicago because I see people dressed up wildly on public transit. So I wonder if it’s as severe now in these days and culture, whether the Cup is in a major metropolitan area and people would be like, “Oh, there’s clearly something weird going on,” and they mind their own…

Andrew: “Comic Con London is happening.”

Eric: Yeah, yeah. And then even going back in time, probably to early 2000s when this was written, just wild stuff, again, happens in the middle of nowhere, so maybe a Muggle that lives in the middle of woods on their private property with their 50 acres, they see something weird happening, but that’s just Wednesday afternoon for them. So maybe it isn’t as dire as we think.

Andrew: I really like this point, actually, about conventions. I was going to say, maybe the Ministry gives their constituents very clear guidelines about what to and what not to wear, crystal clear, so there’s no doubt, because yeah, Laura, I don’t trust wizards making up their own mind in terms of what it’s like to dress like a Muggle. But now I’m being swayed by Eric because I do think, to his point, you start seeing people dressed differently than you, you’re like, “Oh, there must be a convention nearby.”

Micah: But yeah, I mean, I would say this is par for the course in New York City. You’d see somebody and you won’t even think twice; they could easily be a witch or a wizard [laughs] and you wouldn’t even bat an eyelash because of all the crazy things that we see here. But when you were talking earlier, Laura, though, about the whole Muggle dress code, even Arthur, who works in the field of Muggles, still doesn’t seem to be able to dress himself to be able to pass as your average person. It drew up the moment that’s in the Order of the Phoenix movie with Mark Williams where he’s doing the moonwalk through the turnstile for the underground because he’s not really sure how it works.

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Micah: I think you’d probably get a lot of that going on.

Eric: For sure.

Laura: Yeah. I feel like Arthur knows just enough about Muggles to be dangerous.

[Eric and Micah laugh]

Laura: For somebody who has the job he has, he is shockingly out of touch with how Muggles work. [laughs]

Eric: Listen, he’s got the… I don’t know how you… where’s this unfounded accusation coming from? He has a shirt, pants, and a belt. He is succeeding, as far as I’m concerned. He’s the only wizard we ever see who’s an adult that actually succeeds in dressing like a Muggle convincingly.

Laura: Yeah, so he has this one down, I think, for this particular event…

Eric: I’m so proud of him.

Laura: But we see all… yeah, I guess I am proud of him. But I mean, we think about Ron not knowing how to use the telephone, for example.

[Laura and Micah laugh]

Eric: That’s true.

Micah: And I want to know why Arthur doesn’t have more pull, working for the Ministry. Why can’t he get there later?

Eric: Because everybody works for the Ministry.

Micah: Everybody, though?

Eric: Yeah. I mean, basically, his department is… yeah.

Micah: So this is like the holiday party. Is that what you’re saying? [laughs]

Eric: This is basically your yearly… yes, I think. Because…

Andrew: Haven’t we also touched on how his job is probably not respected within the Ministry? Haven’t we? So that’s probably another reason why he doesn’t have much pull.

Eric and Laura: Yeah.

Laura: For sure. Well, keeping it moving, we’re going to move on to the next part of this discussion, which I’ve titled “Sorry, parents, you’re completely cringe to your teenage children.” And we already touched on a couple of these points about why are you forcing these kids on this march to the Portkey? Why couldn’t anybody have used side-along Apparition to make this just an easier experience all around? But I want to focus on Fred and George for a moment, because before everyone leaves the Burrow to go to the boot, Fred and George are caught trying to sneak more of their deadly toffees to the World Cup. But their attempt is ultimately squashed by Mrs. Weasley, and she Accios every last toffee away from them. And I’m wondering, who were the twins planning on passing these out to?

Eric: Can you imagine how disruptive this would have been?

Andrew: Yeah, I also just love that Molly was going “Accio, Accio, Accio!” like she had to do each one individually. It’s too bad there’s not a wider Accio. I guess if they were all in a bag, that would have helped. But to answer your question, maybe they were going to take a strategy similar to what they did with Dudley; just toss them on the ground and see who picks one up and tries to put it in their mouth.

Eric: The only benefit with them trying this again is that people who are suffering from this horrible affliction would be surrounded by wizards. There might actually be an abundance of people trying to help that all have different ideas for how to do it, and that would be potentially awful. But yeah, a crowded space, a public space. The only thing that excuses this, for my mind, is that I think Fred and George really just needed to get them out of the house, because they were afraid that exactly what happened was going to happen, that Molly was going to confiscate them. Maybe they really weren’t planning on actually having people use them. But maybe Lee Jordan or somebody could be able to hold onto them safely until they get to Hogwarts.

Laura: Maybe. I feel like this reminds me of the concept of teenagers, or young people in general, smuggling certain substances, certain contraband that they’re not supposed to have, to an event like a concert or a conference or a dance or something.

Andrew: Yeah. I guess we don’t really know the guidelines here. But presumably, there is a long list of things that are banned from the Quidditch World Cup. Or maybe not, because as I’ve brought up before, anything goes all over the wizarding world. Nothing matters.

Laura: Right, if you think Hogwarts is a security nightmare, then… [laughs]

Andrew: Step outside of Dumbledore and you’ll see just how much crazier it can get. [imitates Dumbledore] “You think I’m bad? Just go to the Cup.”

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Micah: He was probably wearing a Death Eater mask.

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: Well, speaking of cringy parents, let’s talk about Amos Diggory. I had forgotten how insufferable this man is. And I will say, it hurts to read it because you can tell this man is living vicariously through his son who in nine months’ time he’s going to lose. And that really does hurt. But you think about some of the things that Amos says to Harry, where he’s like, “You’re Harry Potter? Oh man, Cedric is going to be able to tell his grandchildren that he beat you at Quidditch.”

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: “He’s the better flyer because he didn’t fall off his broom.” I felt so much secondhand embarrassment for Cedric reading this.

Eric: That’s the greatest thing about this, though, is that Cedric is actually embarrassed. Fred and George are fuming; they hate being reminded of Hufflepuff’s victory in that one game. But it’s clear that Amos just doesn’t know the full story. Or if he does know it, because I think Cedric might have corrected him at one point, he doesn’t care.

Andrew: He tries to tell him, yeah.

Laura: He did.

Eric and Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: I take your point, but Amos is a proud father. He beat the chosen one. There’s nothing better than that; that is something to brag about. Is it right to brag in front of Harry? No, I guess that’s cringe. But Amos is probably, is obviously starstruck, so he’s not thinking clearly right now, so I’ll stick up for my boy.

[Laura and Micah laugh]

Andrew: “My boy!”

Micah: Nice play on words there, Andrew.

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: I’m with you, though, Laura. And it’s just, I think, a product of watching the movies too much. And Jeff Rawle, who played Amos Diggory, he’s very much a friendly character to Harry. He’s never this version of Amos towards Harry. And so to see him behave this way, I completely forgot that this was the type of person that he is.

Eric: It’s so reminiscent of actual parents, though, that are very cringe, to your point, Laura. Just the idea of like, they go into it, then he goes into, “Oh, well, I’m sure even Harry would admit if one man falls off his broom and the other one doesn’t, then the other one is the better athlete!” and it’s like, “Oh my God, stop.”

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Micah: We all know somebody like that, though.

Laura: Yeah, we do. And I just want to point out here, we can’t forget that during that Quidditch match in Prisoner of Azkaban, Cedric actually wanted to replay the match. He wanted a rematch because he didn’t think that it was fair, because Harry had fallen off his broom and it wasn’t Harry’s fault. So Cedric is actually, at least in this regard when it comes to his humility and his self-awareness, he is the polar opposite of his father. Amos is giving, like, stage mother in this.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Yes, very good.

Eric: Or what is it with Toddlers and Tiaras where they’re…?

Laura: Yeah, beauty pageant mom. [laughs]

Eric: Beauty, yeah, pageant moms. He is. I will say that unique to Cedric, too, unlike Viktor Krum and Fleur Delacour, we actually, I think, see enough evidence in previous books in the whole series to understand why the Triwizard cup picks Cedric as the champion for Hogwarts. I think that we… or at least we see his Hufflepuff side, his unwillingness to accept the glory for himself. And he’s not the one gloating. Imagine what a different character he would be if he came up to Harry and said, “Hey, Harry, remember when I beat you at Quidditch?” That would be a way different character, but he would never.

Laura: And I had this note here – we’re getting really dark on this episode between the beginning and the end of the chapter here – but reflecting on Amos telling Cedric, “This will be something you tell your grandchildren,” and I was just thinking, as I planned this episode, the narrator coming on and being like, “Cedric would have no grandchildren.”

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Laura: Poor Cedric.

Andrew: Maybe they can do that in the TV show. Cut to a narrator and it can be you, Laura.

Laura: Oh, maybe they can get Helen Mirren to be the narrator of the Harry Potter TV show.

Andrew: Ooh, that’d be fun. Max that!

Laura: That would be so good. That connection is there. [laughs]

[“Max That” sound effect plays]


Odds & Ends


Laura: All right, we’re going to get into a couple of odds and ends here. The Lovegoods are named dropped at the beginning-ish of this chapter, as having already arrived at the World Cup a couple of weeks ago. Arthur mentions this. And this is where we get the first connection to Luna living so close to the Weasleys, even though we don’t know her character yet. But it makes me wonder, did Luna and Xenophilius end up having to get the cheap tickets Arthur was talking about?

Andrew: Yes, the newspaper world is a tough business. There’s no money in it.

Eric: Print does not sell.

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Micah: They’re dancing around the forest, so they’re fine.

Andrew: [laughs] They’re holding their own Woodstock.

Eric: I was going to say, to them, I bet they would have chosen to come early for all the people watching and that kind of thing. I just imagine Luna’s summers being filled with nonstop enjoyment, no matter what form that takes.

Laura: Agreed. I also just wanted to mention that Mrs. Weasley calls the twins out for not getting more OWLs again. She just did this around their first incident with the cursed toffees, and here she says it to them again, because they mention “Hey, it took us six months to make those, and you just trashed them.” And she said, “Well, it’s no wonder you didn’t do better on your exams,” when the reality is, in a lot of ways, you could say they demonstrated a much higher level of intellect by being able to develop these than is necessarily reflected by doing well on an exam.

Eric: I think the interesting thing about this for me is that Molly brings it up almost to defend Charlie, because I think it’s the twins that are like, “Charlie failed his Apparition test twice.” She’s defending who could be her favorite child.


MVP of the Week


Laura: All right, and we will go ahead then and get into MVP of the week.

[MVP of the Week music plays]

Andrew: And I’m going to give it to the boot Portkey, and listen, boot: You are boot-iful, and worthy of being touched by a Muggle. You are more than untouchable trash to a Muggle like me.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: I would pick you up and put you where you belong. You are my MVB of the week.

Eric: Oh, MVB. I’m going to give mine to Amos for reasons we’ve already said. He gets to gloat about his boy, and it won’t last long, but good for him.

Laura: Well, I’m going to give it to his boy.

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: I’m going to give it to Cedric for his self-awareness and his humility in the face of his father kind of bullying a 14-year-old boy low-key. [laughs]

Micah: I’m going to give it to Eric, or [laughs] I’m going to agree with Eric and give it to Amos, because in the spirit of Thanksgiving, he served up some humble pie to Harry.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

[MVP of the Week music ends]

Andrew: If you have any feedback about today’s discussion, you can contact us by emailing or sending a voice memo recorded on your phone to MuggleCast@gmail.com, or you can use our old school phone number, which is 1-920-3-MUGGLE. That’s 1-920-368-4453.


Quizzitch


Andrew: And now it’s time for some of our Harry Potter trivia game, Quizzitch.

[Quizzitch music plays]

Eric: Last week’s question: According to Amos Diggory, what family couldn’t get tickets to the Quidditch World Cup? And the correct answer was the Fawcetts. Whoever they are, I feel bad for them.

[Quizzitch music ends]

Eric: Micah, please do us the honor of reading last week’s winners who got the correct answer.

Micah: Thanks, Eric. So correct answers were submitted by All hail Andrew, the King of Panera Bread…

Andrew: Interesting. I do love Panera. I don’t know who knows that about me, but thank you.

[Laura laughs]

Micah: … Amos, more like LAMEos; Cedric and his idiot father for jeering at Harry the Almighty; Crystal blue; Daniel Radcliffe’s Abandoned Green Contact Lenses; DavidHeymanYouSexyFantasticBeast…

Laura: True.

Micah: … DF versus Omega Mart read triple trio part 27… [coughs] Sorry, I’m losing my voice now. Elizabeth K.; Famous Amos, Don’t Eat His Cookies; German trains make me dream of Hogwarts Express; Hagrid’s soggy pillow; HallowWolf; I Answered a Harry Potter Trivia Question Correctly and then Proceeded to Get a Lot of Other Trivia Questions Wrong; Justice for Winky; Keep your Galleons in the bag, men; LC; Luna’s Quidditch Week-long Pregame Show featuring her Nargles…

Eric: Yes!

[Laura laughs]

Micah: … Mollywobbles; Muggle, Muggle, toil and trouble, toffees go and cautions don’t bubble; My favorite beast is a shiny shiny Niffler; Ron’s emotional range; and The reason Crookshanks has a squashed face is because… [laughs]

Eric: There’s so much animal cruelty in this episode.

Laura: [laughs] I know.

Micah: The reason Crookshanks has a squashed face is because Ron hit it with a frying pan.

Andrew: Wow.

Eric: Cannot confirm.

Micah: Now, here’s the question, Eric.

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: Which one is my submission?

Eric: Were you Keep your Galleons in the bag, men?

[Micah makes a buzzing sound]

Laura: I’m going to give it to DavidHeymanYouSexyFantasticBeast.

Andrew: I would vote that one too.

[Micah makes a buzzing sound]

Andrew: What was it, Micah? What was it?

Micah: Well, no, I don’t have to give it away if it’s not properly…

Andrew: All right, he sneaks by again.

Eric: [laughs] He sneaks by again. That reminds me of that old…

Micah: Famous Amos, Don’t Eat His Cookies.

Eric: Oh, okay, okay. That old Onion headline, which is “Ninja parade goes through town unnoticed again.”

[Laura laughs]

Eric: Here is the next Quizzitch question: According to Percy, about how many languages does Mr. Crouch speak? Submit your answer to us on the Quizzitch form located on the MuggleCast.com website. Go to MuggleCast.com, click on “Quizzitch,” or go to MuggleCast.com/Quizzitch in your search bar.

Andrew: Also on that site, you’ll find our transcripts, our social media links, our full episode archive, our favorite episodes, and our contact form. Don’t forget, too, that the MuggleCast and Millennial overstock store is now open, so visit MuggleMillennial.Etsy.com to get one-of-a-kind MuggleCast gifts while supplies last. These are great for the holidays, so if you need something for your wishlist or you need something for the MuggleCast fan in your life, check it out. If you enjoy the show and think other Muggles would too, tell that Muggle about the show. We would also appreciate if you left us a review in your favorite podcast app. And last but definitely not least, visit Patreon.com if you want to support the show and receive early access to the show, ad-free episodes, bonus episodes, yearly physical gifts, and much more. If you’re an Apple Podcasts subscriber, you can tap into the show and receive early and ad-free access to each episode for $2.99 a month. We’re going to have some updates there in the New Year, by the way, concerning the Apple Podcasts subscription. More to come. Whether pledging through Patreon or Apple Podcasts, free trials and annual subscriptions are available. So that does it for this week’s Thanksgiving-themed episode, I guess, of MuggleCast. Good luck roasting your baby hippogriff, and hope it goes well. And I apologize.

Micah: Stuffing your owls.

Andrew: Forever sorry, I’m Andrew.

Eric: Eternally also sorry, I’m Eric.

Micah: Forever thankful, I’m Micah.

Andrew: Aww, that’s cute.

Laura: Sorry not sorry, I’m Laura.

[Micah laughs]

Andrew: Bye, everyone.

Eric, Laura, and Micah: Bye.