Transcript for MuggleCast Episode #705, Radio Voldy (OOTP Chapter 26, Seen and Unforeseen)
Show Intro
[Show music plays]
Andrew Sims: Welcome to MuggleCast, your weekly ride into the world of Harry Potter. I’m Andrew.
Eric Scull: I’m Eric.
Micah Tannenbaum: I’m Micah.
Laura Tee: And I’m Laura.
Andrew: And we are your Harry Potter friends, talking about the books, the movies, and the upcoming television show, so make sure you follow this show in your favorite podcast app, and that way you’ll never miss an episode. And this week, we are bewitching Order of the Phoenix to look like schoolbooks so we can secretly discuss Chapter 26, “Seen and Unforeseen.” But before we do that, a couple of reminders: If you love the show and want to help us keep this show running smoother than a Quidditch goal against Ron as Keeper…
[Laura groans]
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Chapter by Chapter: Time-Turner
Andrew: All right, time for Chapter by Chapter. Order of the Phoenix Chapter 26, “Seen and Unforeseen.”
Eric: Yes, yes, yes. We last discussed this cool chapter… actually, I say we; it was Andrew, Laura, Micah, and Pat.
[Ticking sound]
Dumbledore: Three turns should do it, I think. Good luck.
Ron: What the…?
[Bell dings]
[Whooshing sound]
Robotic voice: Episode 463.
Micah: We see a scene play out between Voldemort and Rookwood, who we know from the last chapter has just escaped from Azkaban. And we learn that there was a little bit of a misstep on the part of one of the other Death Eaters named Avery, who provided information to Voldemort that Broderick Bode would have been able to retrieve the prophecy, and Rookwood is very adamant about the fact that that could not be the case, so Voldemort is kind of pissed off that he’s been wasting time over the course of the last few months to no avail.
Andrew: Goodbye, Avery. I never liked your paper products. Kind of glad that you’re getting out of here.
Micah: [laughs] Yeah, I think he is done for.
Andrew: He’s done for. I can never figure out the labels; which are which? I don’t get the numbering scheme.
Laura: [laughs] Well, see, what you don’t realize, Andrew, is that this was Avery’s second calling. After things went south with Voldemort, he decided to go form his own label-making company.
Andrew: I see.
Laura: And he’s apparently just as bad at that as he was at his last job.
Andrew: The envelopes say 8160, but then there’s also 4140. Which is it? I can’t tell which template I’m supposed to be using!
[Laura laughs]
[Ticking sound]
Dumbledore: Mysterious thing, time.
[Bell dings]
Laura: Wow.
Andrew: Those still bug me.
Laura: We were hating on Avery. Dang.
Andrew: I know.
[Eric laughs]
Laura: My God! I mean, granted, he deserved it, but geez. [laughs]
Andrew: These days I use a Rollo thermal label printer. I love those things. Too bad there’s no Rollo in the Harry Potter series.
Eric: Oh, I love a good bit about stationery, and office stationery particularly, so I had to include that. By the way, that was Episode 463, entitled “Umbridge’s Quibbles.” So everyone should check that out if they want even more than what we’re doing this episode.
Chapter by Chapter: Main Discussion
Eric: However, this episode, because it encompasses four weeks of time – it’s actually a long duration of time – we’re going to do something a little different for the main discussion, and that is focus on individual characters’ moments in the chapter, because pretty much everybody has a good chapter, except the villains. And Ron.
Andrew: As it should be!
Eric: Yeah! This is…
Micah: And Trelawney.
Eric: And Trelawney, arguably, but she’s saved.
Micah: She is saved.
Eric: So we’re going to go through and talk about that, but I think the first character for whom it’s a good chapter is Hermione. As we said last week, the decision to use her leverage on Rita Skeeter to force this interview with Harry really does change the course of the wizarding world, or at least this whole… where the public is with Voldemort and believing that he’s back amid the Ministry. So real props to Hermione. She gets to see the fruits of her labor, essentially, when the Quibbler article comes out, and Harry is convincing people.
Andrew: Major win for her, for sure. What I didn’t love from her this chapter, though, was the know-it-all attitude. Eric, I think you have a good note in here about HermioneGPT.
Eric: She’s back.
Andrew: She’s got an answer for everything. She’s not as environmentally horrible as ChatGPT is…
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: … but she was hard on Harry when talking about Cho, I think. Assuming that he should know how to handle Cho… it’s just like, if she knows all this so well, then she should have given Harry a heads up before their date. And to me, this just reeks of Hermione going out of her way to be a know-it-all. I hate when people do this in the Muggle world.
Micah: Ugh, it’s so bad.
Andrew: They say, “Oh, you didn’t know that? I knew that. You should have expected that.” Well, you should have told me.
Micah: Yeah, it’s so wrong of Hermione to expect Harry to Cho what to do.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: And there’s your dad joke for the episode.
Laura: Oh yeah, you were waiting for that moment. [laughs]
Andrew: You should try to insert a dad joke every week and then we’ll have a little noise.
[Eric and Micah laugh]
Eric: #MicahsDadJokes.
Andrew: Like, the crack of a beer can opening up. That’ll be the…
[Laura laughs]
Eric: Yeah, and a snore.
Micah: Can we get that? Can we get the crack of a…?
Eric: Yeah, record this.
Micah: Butterbeer.
[sound of soda can opening]
Andrew: Oh!
Micah: There we go. Oooh.
Eric: It’s water. It’s Kirkland water.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Micah: But I do think Hermione needs to share a bit of the blame here, not for how the date went – that’s on Harry and Cho – but she should have had the awareness that this was an important moment in Harry’s life, and double booking him was not going to go over well with Cho. And quite honestly, the explanation that she offers in this chapter for Harry to have given Cho was weak, and I’m not sure it would have made much of a difference. If Harry had used her rationale, I still think we would have arrived at the same outcome.
Eric: I’ll agree with only one part of this anti-Hermione bias in the middle of Hermione’s triumphant chapter, which is that the advice she gives to Harry wouldn’t really be like him. She tells Harry that he should have said, “Ah, yeah, this ugly girl I know, Hermione Granger – who, by the way, I’m not interested in at all – she’s obligating me to go and see her. I really don’t want to, but I’m going to go do this. Do you want to come along?”
Andrew: “I’m sorry, babe.”
Eric: That’s not in Harry’s character at all, to first of all, lie, second of all, just pretend that he doesn’t want to do something. He’s Harry friggin’ Potter; if he doesn’t want to do something, he’s not going to do it. So it’s kind of a much too late after the fact suggestion of Hermione’s. I don’t have a problem with Hermione, I really don’t, but there are times when she comes off as a little condescending, and particularly in this chapter, the wording that’s used to describe how she’s speaking, like if he were a toddler, is a bit much. So I think she’s probably reveling in her recent success, and it’s caused her to be a little tone deaf or un-delicate with him as a result.
Laura: I don’t know. Having had the experience of being the only girl in a friend group of teenage boys, y’all, I relate to Hermione so much here. Because if we’re looking at what the cause of Harry’s bad date with Cho was, you go back to the root of it; it’s the fact that Harry put absolutely zero effort into planning anything for this date until he woke up the morning of and was like, “Oh yeah, I’m going on this date.” So he had no plans. He clearly showed up to this date with nothing in mind. And that’s not to say that Cho did a great job of this herself; she could have planned something more, although I think ultimately her covert plan was for them to end up at Madam Puddifoot’s. But there could have been more effort put into the date itself that might have made this story about Harry needing to go see Hermione land differently. Not saying that it would have been… it might have been a bumpy landing, but I think it would have gone better than it did, ultimately.
Micah: Can we agree, though, that it’s a misstep on the part of Hermione to put this on Harry’s calendar at the same time that he’s going out on the first date with the girl that Hermione knows he likes?
Andrew: [laughs] Yep.
Laura: I mean, I don’t think Hermione picked the date.
Eric: No, this is the trouble, is that especially with Umbridge’s authoritarianism, there are so few opportunities for something like what needed to happen to happen. It needed to be a Hogsmeade weekend because Umbridge wasn’t expecting it; she wouldn’t have her spies there. This was pretty much the only time this could happen. And this needed to happen for the entire benefit of the wizarding world, as I keep saying! The ends justify the means here. Hermione was generous to let Harry still go on his date and say, “We’ll meet you later,” because this could have taken so much time to do his interview that he didn’t have time for anything else. So I think that Hermione was more than patient and more than kind, and does not…
Andrew: I guess my question is, how long? How many hours are they at Hogsmeade? Because there probably would be enough time to do the date and this meeting. Luna’s not busy. She’s got nothing but time; she can make whatever time she needs.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: Rita is Hermione’s you-know-what.
Eric: Unemployed. You can just say unemployed.
Andrew: And unemployed; she can show up at any time. She doesn’t have a Valentine’s Day date, I think, as we established last week. So I think there would have been time, and I think Hermione was setting Harry up for failure. Can you imagine, any of you, hearing that your best friend is going out on their first date, and you have the nerve to say to them, “I need you that day too, get over here at this certain time.” That’s outrageous!
Laura: I mean, if my best friend is the Chosen One, and that specific day is the day that we get to do something to change the trajectory of the entire world… sorry.
Andrew: Cho can wait. [laughs]
Laura: Yeah. And also, I’ll just say I don’t think Harry and Cho are a good match. I actually think that Harry has not been super interested in her since their kiss at Christmas, and he just hasn’t… I think he’s just kind of slow on the uptake.
Eric: Yeah, I think as soon as he realized this was going to be slightly difficult, that she has some baggage, it’s been slowly rubbing him the wrong way.
Micah: The one piece of it, though, is that Harry doesn’t have the information of who he’s actually going to meet and what he’s meeting Hermione for.
Eric: He also didn’t demand about it, though, right? Because he could have asked Hermione and she probably would have told him.
Micah: In fairness, Harry’s got a lot on his mind, okay?
Eric and Laura: Yeah.
Andrew: And didn’t Hermione peel out of there pretty quick, I seem to recall, when she gets this idea?
Micah: She does, but presumably she would have needed to get a response and then set up the actual meeting. So what I’m saying is, if Harry would have positioned it as “I have a really important interview I need to do,” or I don’t know, make it anything other than using Hermione’s name…
Eric: Like, “I’m meeting my friend,” yeah.
Micah: If he had phrased it in a different way, perhaps the outcome would have been better.
Eric: Yeah, he didn’t have the information necessary to help him phrase it a different way, on multiple, multiple ends there. I want to make two points here: We always hear about Hogsmeade weekends, but I don’t think we see them go to Hogsmeade on Saturday, and then go to Hogwarts to sleep, and then go back to Hogsmeade on Sunday. I think the Hogsmeade weekend is just a Saturday afternoon where the kids from the school come to the village. So my point in bringing that observation up is just that we like to imagine there’s enough time to do both, right? The date… because that’s Valentine’s Day. So if there were two days they could have done it, Hermione would have scheduled the Rita thing for the non-Valentine’s Day day.
Andrew: Right.
Eric: Clearly she’s considered it enough.
Andrew: No, that’s true. I did imagine it as a day trip as well. You’ve got to block a lot of time out; I understand that. You’ve got to block out two-three hours just to ride Forbidden Journey. You never know how long that line’s going to be.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: Yeah, yeah. Oh, God. And the line for butterbeer…
Andrew: The butterbeer line… [laughs]
Eric: That’s half a day anyway, yeah.
Andrew: Tourists everywhere… screaming children…
Eric: Augh!
Laura: God forbid Forbidden Journey breaks down.
Andrew: You run into your favorite MuggleCaster… yeah. You go on that Hagrid coaster, the original one, and you’re like, “This was 30 seconds and I waited in line an hour for that?”
[Andrew and Micah laugh]
Eric: By the way, we love that ride on this show. But still…
Andrew: It’s cute.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: If there’s no wait, it’s cute.
Eric: The other question I want to put… this is a good Hermione chapter, damn it!
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Do the ends justify the means? Because even Cho, who reads the Quibbler article, comes and gives Harry a kiss on the cheek and is like, “That was really brave.” Now, Harry doesn’t take that opportunity to gloat and be like, “That was what I was seeing Hermione about, FYI.” I think Cho is probably smart enough to realize, though, when that interview occurred, especially…
Micah: Of course she was; she’s in Ravenclaw.
Eric: Well, there you go.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: So then she must… then she owes Hermione an apology! Anyway, we’re going to move on.
Micah: Ehh…
Laura: [laughs] I mean, these are teenagers; let’s remember that. None of these people’s frontal lobes are fully developed yet, so there are just some emotional and maturity limitations at play for everyone here.
Eric: There’s a little bit of a blind spot when it comes to Hermione rubbing people the wrong way. She kind of gleefully tells Fred and George why Ginny is all of a sudden good at Quidditch, and it’s because she’s been sneaking their brooms, and like, “Oh yeah, that makes sense.” But hello, guys, you didn’t notice that? And then Hermione does kind of a little bit step in it regarding Quidditch. And what did we think about her comment that she feels better than, or freer, because her mood is not dependent on Ron’s goalkeeping ability?
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Unlike most of Gryffindor, who are just… their week is ruined.
Laura: I mean, I think Hermione doesn’t understand Quidditch, it’s very clear, and she doesn’t have probably the appropriate level of respect for it because she doesn’t understand it. At the same time, I still think it’s a healthy attitude to have to not hang your mental health on something that you have no control over.
Andrew: [laughs] Yeah. I think the conversation in the books gets a little exaggerated overall. People do look forward to games in the Muggle world; just thinking about Muggle examples here. People look forward to football, right, Micah? Every Sunday, what are you doing? 1:00 p.m. in the afternoon? You’re looking forward to, I don’t know, the Jets or something.
Micah: I mean, pick a better team.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: Yeah, but they’re close to you. That’s why I used that. [laughs]
Micah: That’s fair.
Andrew: I think Ron is onto something here, that it’s something to look forward to. It gives some joy. But tying his mental health to it is probably an exaggeration at this age.
Micah: But it’s not that surprising, if you think about how most young people who play – whether you consider competitive or noncompetitive sports – how worked up they do get, depending on the outcome of their performance. And Ron has grown up in a family with really good Quidditch players, and he wants to be able to, in a lot of ways, live up to that reputation. And he’s somebody who just loves Quidditch in general, so this idea that the sport that he loves, he’s not very good at – at least to start – and let’s be fair to him; I mean, he’s getting thrown into a tough situation here, right? He hasn’t had time to really grow and mature into this role. But as far as Hermione goes, she gets worked up over things like getting a wrong answer or not acing an assignment. And so this made me think, if we’re to flip it a little bit, because Quidditch – when Ron isn’t getting scored on, what, 14 times? – is fun. It’s enjoyable, right? For the most part, for these students, it’s an outlet. Does Hermione have any fun outlets, aside from academics? Is this part of why…?
Eric: Does SPEW count? [laughs]
Micah: I was thinking about that.
Laura: Yeah, knitting all those hats.
Eric: No, because she does it alone. It’s probably really lonely. It’s creative.
Micah: Exactly.
Andrew: It’s a hobby, though.
Eric: She makes hats.
Micah: I’m not saying you can’t have your own personal hobby; of course you can. But I’m thinking about doing something that allows you to be part of a team, to interact with people, to have… you have similar interests…
Andrew: Dumbledore’s Army?
Micah: Maybe.
Andrew: It’s new. I see your point, though. I see your point.
Eric: She gets a little holier-than-thou, but I think ultimately… as somebody who’s always had a healthy skepticism for all sports, yeah, I kind of get what she’s saying. Your team lost this week; that’s going to drag you down. But why are you so affected by this external factor? I don’t know. I don’t agree with her tone, but I agree with what she’s saying.
Micah: There’s something about it that she just doesn’t quite understand. Though, go back to even Sorcerer’s Stone; she was cheering on Harry in that first match-up, right? So there is a love for the Gryffindor Quidditch team. But if I’m not mistaken, doesn’t she also get into it with Ginny in a later book about Quidditch?
Eric and Laura: Yeah.
Laura: In Half-Blood Prince, Ginny is like, “Don’t act like you know what you’re talking about. Shut up.” And I mean, Hermione kind of deserves it, because again, she’s speaking kind of, I think, out of turn tonally about something she doesn’t really know about. And I think you’re right, Micah; up until Dumbledore’s Army, I don’t think Hermione… I don’t think we’ve seen her experience being on a team like that. I think she cheers for the Gryffindor Quidditch team mostly because her best friends are on it. If she didn’t have close friends on the Gryffindor Quidditch team, I don’t think that she would root against them or anything, but I don’t think she would be as enthusiastic at matches either.
Andrew: Yeah. I do wonder how many wizards and witches enjoy Quidditch in the wizarding world. It’s interesting because in the Muggle world, we have so many different sports to pick from. Everybody’s got a sport. A lot of people have sports they like, except for Eric, it sounds like. [laughs]
Eric: Apparently.
Andrew: But then in the wizarding world, it kind of sounds like you’re forced to either love Quidditch or love no sport at all. It doesn’t seem like there’s any other sport that’s on the same level as Quidditch, at least.
Eric: Yeah, you’re not getting invited to the Gobstones World Cup.
Andrew: Right, right. So I also wonder… maybe Hermione, in time, came to like Quidditch too. I’ve been kind of a late bloomer when it comes to football. I’ve gotten into football; I never thought I would.
Eric: Who’s your team?
Andrew: The Eagles. Fly, Eagles, fly, baby. Come on. Super Bowl champions!
Eric: On the road to victory.
Laura: There you go.
Andrew: I’m optimistic that Hermione came to like Quidditch a lot. Also, if you’re the Minister of Magic, I feel like you have to at least fake that you like it.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Eric: That’s right. You’re asked to present…
Micah: Look, there are some people who just don’t like sports, and that’s totally fair.
Eric: I’ll tell you who does like sports: Ginny has a good chapter. She actually saves Gryffindor, I think, some shame by catching the Snitch when they’re only ultimately going to lose by ten points, which keeps them in the running for the Quidditch World Cup. Now, there’s this moment where Harry kind of has this internal monologue where he thinks he could have done it better, and that’s a little worrisome, but at the same time he’s just grateful, because everyone is down about Quidditch. Everyone is upset that Ron, despite all the practice, is still not passing the muster, and I feel like at least Ginny maybe saved some embarrassment for everybody. So good for her.
Laura: Yeah. I think… well, and ultimately, it prevents Gryffindor from being knocked super far down the list, right? They could still bounce back.
Micah: Yeah. And it’s hard watching from the sidelines. Think about athletes who get injured and have to watch when their team is competing in important matches; that’s what Harry is experiencing here. It’s a bit of FOMO, to be honest with you.
Andrew: Oh, yeah.
Micah: I mean, it’s very equivalent to when Andrew isn’t on the show, and he edits it…
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: … and then he’s sitting there thinking to himself, “Gosh, if I was only on, so many other good points would have been made. The show would have been so much better.”
Andrew: [laughs] “This moment was missing a Trelawney impression.” Don’t worry, that’s coming later on today’s episode.
Eric: Oooh. I’ve got to say, too, with Harry having to watch his team compete, and he can’t do it, Umbridge is a few rows in front of him, looking back, smiling at him.
Micah: Yeah, what a… word I cannot say.
Andrew: Evil.
Eric: She gets hers. She gets hers in this chapter. But still, it’s just bad. Yeah, but really want to shout out Luna again, the other member of this equation, the other person who was at the table while Harry did his tell-all besides Hermione and Rita. And it’s her father’s printing press, her father’s publication that gets to have the Harry Potter tell-all, “What really happened the night You-Know-Who came back and what I saw.” And The Quibbler quickly sells out. It’s the fastest sell-out for it; Xenophilius is going to do another print run of it. And they do seem… she is a little bit surprised, I guess, that there seems to be more interest in Harry’s story than that of the Crumple-Horned Snorkack, which is an odd comment, but hilarious.
Andrew: [laughs] Which raises the question, just how out there are Luna and Xeno…
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: … that they would think a story on these Crumple-Horned Snorkacks should get priority over an interview with Harry? That just tells me they’re not in touch with reality. I know they are already a little out there, but aren’t you paying attention in the news and what’s going on?
Eric: Yeah, there’s a possibility that the Crumple-Horned Snorkack story is going to usurp Harry’s story, and that Harry is going to have to wait a whole other issue to get his interview in.
Andrew: Right.
Eric: That’s what Luna says, I think, in the very beginning of the chapter. But I think Xenophilius had enough sense to actually put the Harry thing out first…
Andrew: Okay, that’s fair.
Eric: … because they get it within the week, so there’s that. But yeah, I don’t really know how… what a sense of how big the article, how they thought it would be. But ultimately, due to circumstances in this chapter, it’s so much bigger.
Laura: I really want to see the editorial calendar for The Quibbler.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Laura: I really want to see how they prioritize, because I tend to think that at The Quibbler, they are probably living under the assumption that anything too weird to be published in the Prophet should probably go in The Quibbler. So I wonder if their method of deciding what goes first is “What is the most underrepresented, kooky story?” basically.
Andrew and Eric: Yeah.
Eric: They don’t have a closed door policy. It’s open, like, “Anything that was rejected from the Prophet, we’ll take it.”
Andrew: [laughs] Any rumor. “Fudge spotted in goblin disco club.”
Micah: Oooh.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: “The truth about Nargles: Are they stealing your left shoes?”
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: “Werewolf/mermaid hybrids found in Black Lake.”
Micah: Are you making these all up?
Andrew: Maybe.
Eric: I was going to say, they’re really good.
Micah: Or did you Google Quibbler headlines?
Andrew: No.
[Everyone laughs]
Laura: Are they from ChatGPT?
Eric: Andrew, could you say no again, but say it more convincing?
Andrew: No. What?
[Laura laughs]
Micah: Okay. Well, Lydia has a good point in the Discord. She said, “They believe Harry, so they don’t see the need for the urgency to release the story.”
Andrew: Oh, good point.
Laura: Oooh. Good point. Yeah, I could see Xenophilius being like, “Duh.” [laughs] “This is the worst-kept secret; everyone knows this.” Well, not quite.
Andrew and Eric: Yeah.
Andrew: We’re going to take a quick break and investigate this new rumor that Albus Dumbledore is actually a giant shrinking troll, so we’ll be right back.
Micah: No, he’s just a troll.
Andrew: Wow.
Laura: Dumbledore is kind of a troll, low-key.
Eric: You just said that to a man with a subtitle that says “Dumbledore enthusiast.” How do you feel about that?
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: I know. I know what I did.
Micah: Fantastic.
Eric: I think it’s harder to insult Dumbledore looking at Andrew with the little subtitle there.
Micah: We need to get him a shirt that says “Dumbledore enthusiast.”
Andrew: I’m down for that.
Laura: Aww.
Andrew: Let’s create it in the merch store.
Laura: Yeah, your birthday is coming up.
Andrew: I want Laura’s Pants for my birthday. [laughs]
Eric: Yeah, me too.
Andrew: I’m going to be flying for, like, 12 hours each way in a couple weeks. I need those comfortable Laura’s Pants.
Laura: If you… can you actually do that and wear them, and please take pictures of yourself flying across the Atlantic in my pants?
Andrew: [laughs] I wonder how long it would… that’d be so funny.
Micah: Laura’s Pants, now available in London.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: Oh, man.
[Ad break]
Eric: And we’re back. Let’s talk about an interesting subject or development here. Snape, as in Professor Snape, actually seems to have a moment where he might be wanting to teach Harry, or instruct him well. I don’t know how I feel about this. Basically, Snape and Harry square off, as they always do, but this is a lesson in which Harry successfully throws off the Legilimens spell. It allows Harry to throw a Shield Charm, and he breaks into Snape’s mind, and we see some memories of Snape’s. And instead of murdering Harry right on the spot, Snape says, “That was better. You actually did a better job.” And I’m starting to think, “Wait a minute, that was a normal human response to actually your student succeeding at something you’re teaching him.” What’s going on with Snape? Why didn’t he just flip the heck out?
Andrew: Is Albus checking in, asking how the lessons are going, and maybe he’s like, “Umm… no progress,” and maybe Dumbledore is encouraging him to actually be a better teacher?
Eric: You’re right. This is something he can report back to Albus, and so that’s why he doesn’t flatten Harry.
Andrew: [imitating Snape] “I’ve made progress. I’ve given him a compliment.”
[Eric laughs]
Micah: Was that before or after Harry basically compliments Snape, or says what he says, which Snape basically takes as a compliment?
Eric: Yeah, he’s like, “Excuse you, Potter, but you’re not special, and you’re not supposed to want to see what the Dark Lord is saying to his Death Eaters,” and Harry is like, “No, that’s your job, sir,” and Snape is like, “You’re right, it is.”
Andrew: So wait, Micah, you’re calling that a compliment?
Micah: Well, I think that’s the way Snape interpreted it.
Andrew: Interesting. Like, “This is my role; this is my job in this fight.”
Micah: He’s like, “Yeah, you’re damn right I am.”
Andrew: That’s an interesting way to look at it.
Laura: Yeah. That’s kind of how I interpreted it, too, kind of like a “Hell yeah I am, and you have no idea what you’re talking about, so sit down.”
Andrew: [imitating Snape] “You’re Dumble-damn right.”
[Everyone laughs]
Micah: But it doesn’t last long, right?
Eric: No, no, and interestingly enough, he casts it one more time, and Harry is able to finally get through the door. It’s a really interesting kind of instance where Harry is standing in front of the door; he’s never gotten through it. He’s reaching out, he opens it, and actually sees the room beyond, the room beyond with all these subsequent doors with black walls, black floors, and blue flame. And my question here – I had kind of an inkling that I’ve never had before thinking about this – but my question would be how is Snape able to coax it out of Harry if Harry never dreamt that he got through the door? How is this actually able to occur if it never occurred before and what Snape is doing is Legilimency?
Micah: I feel like in these moments, Harry is exceptionally vulnerable, and I don’t think Harry necessarily needs to be asleep to experience these visions from Voldemort, so maybe it was just a situation where two things were happening at the same time.
Andrew: Yeah, Snape is sort of breaking him down so much that he’s actually opening up the active connection to Voldemort.
Laura: Yeah. Well, and Harry is not practicing either; that’s something else that gets called out. Snape specifically says, when this happens, “You haven’t been practicing,” the implication being, “If you had been practicing, this would not be happening.” And we even see Harry in this chapter acknowledge how hard it is for him to empty his mind before he goes to sleep.
Eric: Yeah, he’s like, “I’m not doing that. Everybody around me sucks.”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Laura: Basically. So I agree with Andrew; I think Harry is already vulnerable because of the work that he’s being put through with Snape, but I don’t think that he’s well-resourced to be able to actually do what he needs to do outside of his lessons. Again – sorry, Andrew – it all goes back to Dumbledore. So much of this, so much of Harry having the information that he needs to be successful at this, is missing because Dumbledore isn’t communicating.
Micah: Boom.
Eric: And because Snape didn’t set him up for success either. He’s not like, “Here, Potter, we’re going to actually practice emptying your mind.”
Laura: No, but…
Eric: Like, “This is how you do it. This is…” Because there’s a method. That’s as important as learning the spell or the resisting of the penetration.
Laura: I agree, but I mean, I think Dumbledore could have predicted how Snape was going to teach Harry.
Eric: Poorly.
Andrew: And then Dumbledore should have anticipated this – like you’re saying – and said, “Snape, do this right. Don’t be a whiny bitch in front of Harry. Get the job done. Put your feelings towards the boy and his mom aside for a couple hours a week, and do me a solid here.” That’s the conversation that should have happened, because Dumbledore can’t teach him directly for reasons we’ve already discussed. He needs somebody who’s really good, like we discussed previously. Maybe Lupin would have been an option, or like we said previously, Lupin should have been in the room as a kind of teacher’s assistant to keep Snape chill, I guess.
Eric: A compliance officer, yeah.
Andrew: [laughs] Compliance officer.
Eric: Well, I think, too, that Snape’s angle… okay, Harry has been dreaming about the door since the beginning of the year, long before Dumbledore could have stepped in about it, but since Christmas, now they know that things are intertwined and stuff. But Harry desperately wants to see beyond the door; this is not something Snape can really prevent. Harry has now gotten so much of a taste about the door, dreams about it every night, that he really wants to see what’s beyond it, so I think there’s something accurate to what Snape is saying when he tells Harry that he’s not even trying and perhaps he wants to go beyond the door, perhaps he wants to see more, feels special about Voldemort. It comes off as just an insult.
Micah: So it’s his own willpower that’s also working against Snape in this moment. To your point, Harry wants to go there, so maybe subconsciously he’s keeping himself from closing off his mind because he has this desire to know what’s in the room.
Eric: Well, because if he really took the threat seriously, I think he… or if it was explained to him in a way that made Harry take it seriously, he would have maybe made a little bit more effort, but he loves a good mystery, right? And so what I’m starting to think is something crucial happened the last time Harry had a dream, I think at the end of the end of the last chapter, which is, as suspected, Voldemort now knows about their dream connection. So going back to my original question about this scene, which is how can Harry be recalling something that he doesn’t remember having to begin with – what it looks like behind the door – is Voldemort now actively implanting or trying to send visions of what’s behind the door to Harry.
Micah: Why not?
Laura: Yeah. I mean…
Micah: We see them… he’s Voldemort in this chapter when he’s dreaming.
Andrew and Laura: Yeah.
Eric: So I finally, I think, answered the question that I was having, which is Voldemort has actually turned on the broadcast and is now… this is what’s behind it.
Andrew: [singing] “Radio Voldy!”
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: There’s a lot of fun we could have with that idea. But ultimately, it’ll get used horribly at the end of the book in two months’ time.
Laura and Micah: Yeah.
Laura: I think it’s also interesting… it’s really hard to tell, I think, for the reader and for Harry, where Voldemort’s emotions end and Harry’s emotions begin. Because I think some of Harry’s desire to see what’s beyond the door is driven by Voldemort’s desire, because we see in the last chapter, I think it was, Harry specifically call out that he is having emotions that are not his own, that are not contextually appropriate for the conversations that he’s in at the time.
Micah: He’s maniacally laughing.
Laura: Yeah! I think a lot of this is Voldemort, and then I think Harry’s natural curiosity on top of that makes it probably really hard to break… or rather, really hard to empty one’s mind of.
Micah: Totally. And I just think that Snape has so much to do with that, because if we go back to a prior discussion we had, and we compare how Lupin taught Harry to cast the Patronus, and the care with which he did that, and the way that he would step by step teach him… if it was too much for Harry, they stopped, right? And he treated him with the chocolate. Now we’re in a situation where Snape just wants to get the last laugh, right?
Eric: Basically.
Micah: Every time, no matter how well Harry may perform in that particular moment, right? He has a great moment in this chapter; Snape could have stopped the lesson there, left Harry on a high note, and maybe he doesn’t have the dream that he experiences in this chapter. But instead, I always think that Snape wants to leave the lesson on the higher ground, and maybe… higher ground is not the right…
Eric: Yeah, the upper hand.
Micah: The upper hand, exactly.
Eric: Well, because Harry knows that he’s in for it now. After he has a success, he’s like, “Oh, Snape is going to make me pay for that, seeing inside his head,” and he does. In fact, the only reason the lesson… the only reason Snape could maybe kind of weirdly be misconstrued as a decent teacher who cares for half of one second in this chapter is because the lesson isn’t allowed to continue because they hear a scream up above, and it’s Trelawney’s scream, which leads us to the last character that has a very good chapter, I would say…
[Andrew gasps]
Eric: … and that is Dumbledore, who was able to, I guess, predict that Trelawney would be attempted to be removed from the school. He has read Umbridge’s diary; he knows that that’s the next move, that Umbridge is clearly feeling so put out over this Quibbler thing that she’s scrambling for “How can I show my control? How can I show I have power?” So time to give the Divination teacher the sack, and Dumbledore completely shuts down her ability to remove Trelawney from the school, unceremoniously and mercilessly. It’s amazing.
Andrew: Yeah, he’s ready to go with this. It reminds me of the beginning of the book, where he’s defending Harry in court; he knows the laws and the statutes. He knows how to get through this situation and still remain in control, and that’s when he brings in Firenze.
Eric: I mean, it’s just… it’s Dumbledore. It’s amazing. He like, okay, opens the door. As you said, Andrew, he knows the exact statutes. He knows that because the law appointing the High Inquisitor was… the excuse around it being able to exist was that they couldn’t find a Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher, so that’s why the law is worded to where, if Hogwarts fails to find a teacher, then the Inquisitor will appoint one. Because that’s how that law was written then – and it certainly wouldn’t be how it was written if it were a new law now – that’s why Dumbledore did this whole thing where he finds a substitute before the question even comes up about who’s going to fill Trelawney’s role. So Umbridge thinks that she’s distinctly gaining a victory, and really, really, really grabbing for power here, and Dumbledore is like, “No. You can fire Trelawney, but you can’t send her away. And also, I already have a replacement.” It’s just… it’s a master class. It’s so good.
Laura: It’s like malicious compliance, honestly. Like, “Yeah, okay, I’ll play within the rules. But if we’re playing by the rules, you can’t do that.” [laughs]
Micah: Yeah, I definitely plus one Dumbledore in this moment. He was prepared. And really, the only reason he was out there was to go get Firenze. He probably knew, from all the intel he has across the school, that this sack was coming and was imminent for Trelawney, and I think… I’d love to see – I guess it’s going to be John Lithgow – this shot that Harry describes of Dumbledore, this imposing figure coming through the oak doors with the night behind him, the moonlight behind him. It was not something we got in the movies. Although, Michael Gambon does come out into the courtyard area, but it’s not the same effect.
Eric: Ugh, it’s epic until he then goes, “Don’t you all of studying to do? Rahhh!”
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Dumbledore-saurus.
Micah: Yeah, that’s the second worst line in the Harry Potter series.
Andrew: The cranky Michael Gambon, yeah. No, I think you’re right, though, Micah, about Dumbledore anticipating this. He’s probably been anticipating it for many weeks, just seeing how Umbridge is operating, and knowing Trelawney, about the type of teacher that she is. It also makes me wonder if Dumbledore had somebody on tap to replace Hagrid.
Eric: Right.
Andrew: You would think he did. He was probably anticipating that one too.
Eric: They’re both on probation.
Laura: Probably Grubbly-Plank.
Eric: Yeah, it’s probably Grubbly-Plank. But the greatest thing about Trelawney’s replacement is that it plays right into Umbridge’s own prejudices. It is what she would call a half-breed, or a creature of lesser… of near-human intelligence, right? It’s a centaur! And she freaking hates that. And the fact that he’s not going to go to Trelawney’s office tower to sleep or wherever her quarters are up in the castle, but Firenze is just going to prefer something on the ground floor by nature, completely allows Trelawney to stay. And it’s just… Umbridge is so racist; she has to control herself. Not only did Dumbledore one-up her, but he presents a teacher that is going to… his very existence is going to offend Umbridge as being teaching staff at the school worse than Trelawney did to begin with.
Laura: And also, Firenze is not going to take any crap off Umbridge. That’s the other advantage here. I mean, this is someone who Umbridge’s horrible standards would lead her to believe is not qualified to hold this position, and he’s going to make her look pretty dumb when the time comes. I kind of can’t wait to revisit that chapter, because it is so satisfying. He’s just like, “Lady, I am aware of the whole cosmos and all the timelines, and all of this is so much bigger than you. Please go away.” [laughs]
Eric: The other aspect of Dumbledore’s brilliance here is that nobody guesses the true victory that’s happening. I think that you can see this from the outside; I bet all the students and the teachers may even see it as a procedural move, where it’s Headmaster one, High Inquisitor zero on the latest victory, but Trelawney is essential. It’s essential that Trelawney is protected, and she’s there strategically. This is why Dumbledore appointed her to her role at the school to begin with; she’s there strategically because she gave the prophecy between Harry and the Dark Lord. Now, the interesting thing about this is, in Umbridge trying to send her away, if she was successful at that, Trelawney would maybe be at the mercy or fall victim to one of the Death Eaters, if anybody knew this about her. This is the weapon that Voldemort is trying to get to right now, and if he could just abduct Trelawney either to a Memory Charm… I know, specifically, she doesn’t remember giving that part, but if he physically had Trelawney… this is the year when Trelawney needs to absolutely be protected by Dumbledore at Hogwarts. This is the year. And now she is, which is really, really exciting. I don’t think I’ve ever pieced together before that Trelawney’s part in the grand scheme of things – which, again, we don’t really find out until the next book the full significance of it – is that she needs to stay at the school this year.
Andrew: Maybe Snape needs to be teaching Occlumency to Trelawney as well. How would that be for a class, teaching Trelawney and Harry?
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Andrew: He would hate that.
Eric: Trelawney and Harry in Remedial Potions would be just absolutely wild.
[Andrew laughs]
[Ad break]
Eric: All right, welcome back. So let’s talk about Voldemort’s developing plan here, because, as indicated in our clip that we played from the last time we discussed this chapter, Voldemort has wasted some months in attempting to grab the prophecy through Imperio-ing other people to do it, etc., etc. He now knows… he now has the basic building blocks, thanks to Rookwood, that only he or Harry can really retrieve the prophecy, and this allows the subsequent months to exist and unfurl how they do. So yeah, Voldemort is quickly changing gears as a result of this meeting, which Harry has a unique insight into.
Andrew: Yeah. It does make me wonder how Voldemort’s plan and how the whole timeline would have changed had Voldemort never wasted time with this now bad information. Would this have been wrapped up a lot sooner? Would we have had one less year?
Eric: Right.
Laura: Would we have gotten to Horcruxes and Hallows sooner than we do?
Andrew: “Harry Potter and the Order of the Horcruxes.”
[Laura laughs]
Eric: I mean, I think if you find out that it either has to be you or Harry to retrieve the prophecy, they’re either going to try and kidnap or lure Harry there sooner, or they’re going to find a way to get Voldemort in the Ministry, which… I mean, Lucius could sneak him in, in a… well, I guess he’s not small anymore. But I think that they have enough Death Eaters that are clearly willing to risk it that Voldemort could go himself to the Ministry.
Micah: It just seems like something that should have been more common knowledge. Why would Voldemort, who’s this extremely accomplished individual with vast knowledge of the wizarding world, not know, nor does any of his followers know, that a prophecy can only be retrieved by those who it is made about?
Andrew: Thinking about the timeline, Voldemort says in this chapter they wasted months. So thinking about that, if they did waste months, let’s say they actually figured things out early in the summer in between years four and five, which would also make sense because Voldemort is now fully back in his body. What if Voldemort tried to lure Harry away from Privet Drive in some way? Having somebody else come for him, pretend to be somebody who he’s not, gets him out of the Dursleys’ house, and before you know it, Harry is being lured into the Ministry or something like that. I could see something like that playing out. Ariane, who’s listening live, also wonders, “Would Nagini be able to have retrieved the prophecy, as another Horcrux themselves? She is part of Voldemort, so it’s about part of her.” That’s an interesting idea too.
Laura: True, yeah. Well, and I think they might have been trying to do something like that, because Nagini is the one who attacks Mr. Weasley, right?
Andrew: Yeah, yeah. Well, would Nagini have been successful? I wonder, Mr. Potter.
Laura: I don’t know. We’ll never know.
Andrew: Lydia also asks, “Would Voldemort have been able to take Polyjuice Potion to get inside?” That’s an interesting question, too. So he would just pose as somebody else so he could get into the Ministry easily enough.
Micah: He’d finally have a nose.
Andrew: Yeah, and then would he be able to grab the prophecy? I guess that brings up questions about these rules about the prophecies versus Polyjuice Potion. I guess I would assume that yes, he could take it, because it is still him.
Micah: It’s not his style, though. He doesn’t like Polyjuice.
Andrew: Yeah, he wants to take it himself, and he wants everybody to know it was him. Is that what you’re saying?
Laura: He just loves the attention. He wants the drama.
Eric: I will say, we do get kind of a full picture after Harry’s vision about how exactly things went down, like the fact that we saw Lucius Malfoy the day of Harry’s hearing; that was the day that Sturgis Podmore was first cursed. And this whole explanation about Bode and why he needed to be killed at St. Mungo’s. This is all pieced together by the trio, and so it’s just… it’s pretty interesting, I guess, that the Death Eaters and all of them have all actually been working towards this goal, just like the Order has been keeping watch, preventing them from getting behind the door. It’s probably more exciting than it sounds, of guarding this door so that Voldemort’s people can’t get in there.
Micah: It does show how bad security is at the Ministry as well, that you have these two groups that are at odds with each other over the same general space within the Ministry, yet nobody really picks up on what’s happening.
Eric: The Ministry is none the wiser, yeah.
Micah: But Andrew, your question, though… it’s hard to say what else Voldemort would have done with the time, right? It seems like… it just shows he’s vulnerable too, right? And that he doesn’t know everything, and he’s going to make missteps. He’s going to make mistakes, but other people are going to pay for those mistakes, not him.
Andrew: Yeah. You could say there was a flaw in the plan.
Laura: Oh, wait, there’s a chapter called that. [laughs]
Eric: Ohh, interesting.
Andrew: No, but that is a good point. That is a good reminder, and almost kind of foreshadowing, that Voldemort and his team aren’t perfect either. For as big of a threat as they are, they’re messy too. They’re getting bad information, and Voldemort evidently doesn’t know everything that he should.
Laura: Yeah, but what is it that Miley says, Andrew?
Andrew: “Everybody has those days”? “Everybody makes mistakes”?
Micah: “Party in the USA”?
[Everyone laughs]
Laura: I thought it was the “Nobody’s Perfect.”
Andrew: Oh, yeah.
Laura: I feel like that’s the one you always tout.
Andrew: [singing] “Nobody’s perfect,” yeah. Oh, see, you confused me because that was technically Hannah Montana.
Laura: Oh, sorry.
Andrew: But I’ll accept it.
[Laura laughs]
Micah: Eric.
Eric: Yes?
Micah: I did want to ask, though, all this information that you just shared with us, why not leak it to The Quibbler? There’s no downside, right, to doing that at this point.
Eric: What information?
Micah: All the Death Eater information that was just shared about Lucius Malfoy and Broderick Bode and Avery and Rookwood, right?
Andrew: Is it partly that Harry isn’t entirely sure that what he’s seeing is accurate? So maybe he doesn’t want to put out information that he’s not too sure of himself.
Laura: Yeah, but he’s naming Death Eaters who were in the graveyard.
Eric: Yeah, but that’s…
Andrew: But he was sure of that. He saw it with his own eyes.
Eric: Well, it’s almost like… I don’t think Harry is unsure about what he’s seeing now, but the graveyard story was his story to tell, and the guarding of the door story is Dumbledore’s story to tell, or somebody who’s in the Order. I think Harry would not scuttle the Order’s intentions by revealing information about their goings-on. It’s more of a security thing for protecting the Order by not saying anything? I don’t know. It sounds like, even though everything is 100% true that’s happened, releasing that kind of information about what Lucius Malfoy has been open to, and a poisoned plant or a killer plant sent to St. Mungo’s, sounds like the stuff that The Quibbler usually posts about, right?
Micah: Yeah, but it could be a nice follow-up to Harry’s story.
Eric: Harry should just be a regular columnist for…
Andrew: Yeah! He should launch a podcast. A TikTok.
Eric: “Here’s my tell-all story: How my grandfather’s Sleekeazy hair solution fortune has been put to use in my lifetime.”
Micah: Look, if nothing else, it would have put Voldemort on guard, and that connection between the two of them would have been shut down real fast.
Eric: Well, also, do we think, though, that the Ministry – who’s actively trying to pretend that this is not the case – if they read in the Prophet or in The Quibbler that everybody’s trying to get through this door, do you think that they would actually put up more protections around the Hall of Prophecy? The Department of Mysteries?
Micah: You would think, but…
Eric: You would hope.
Andrew: But maybe they wouldn’t announce that. They don’t want people to know they’re taking this seriously.
Laura: Right, because you don’t know how many others working at the Ministry are quietly pro-Voldemort…
Micah: Good point.
Laura: … and you don’t want to activate them and make them think, “Oh, there’s something that…”
Eric: “Oh, I can help this guy get in here.”
Laura: Yeah, exactly.
Eric: Yeah, you just don’t know where the security failures lie. We know the wand weigher Eric isn’t that good at his job because he just disappears later. But yeah, so I guess they don’t want to poke the bear, is the answer that question.
Odds & Ends
Andrew: Couple of odds and ends: I wanted to highlight, on the subject of Umbridge banning The Quibbler in Hogwarts, which in turn made everybody want to read it, there is a term for this type of event, and it’s called the Streisand effect in the Muggle world. And this is a phenomenon where an attempt to hide, remove, or censor information ends up unintentionally drawing more attention to it. It was named after singer and actress Barbra Streisand, who in 2003 tried to suppress a photo. She did that by suing a photographer and a website that had published this photo. Before the lawsuit, though, the photo had only been downloaded a few times, but after news of the lawsuit broke, it was viewed by hundreds of thousands of people because people were wondering, “Why does Barbra not want us to see this photo?” This is exactly what happened with The Quibbler and Umbridge trying to ban it.
Eric: Oh, man.
Andrew: Yeah, so I think Umbridge should have thought about that before adding that additional Educational Decree. And also, I just want to highlight this line when Harry is talking about Quidditch. The narrator says, “Though Harry would rather have jumped off the Astronomy Tower than admit it to [Hermione], by the time he had watched the game the following Saturday…” And it goes on. But it was interesting that the author said he would rather have jumped off the Astronomy Tower, when in the next book, Dumbledore is thrown off of it. When did she know that was going to be the way Dumbledore died? [laughs]
Eric: I think it’s just… it’s fun and feels lived in in the universe that everyone at Hogwarts knows, obviously, that the Astronomy Tower is the tallest tower at Hogwarts, so you just say that for emphasis. Like, “I’m going to jump off the Astronomy Tower.”
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Because it’s the most likely to kill you by virtue of being the tallest; you’d fall the furthest and hit the…
Andrew: Sure.
Eric: So that’s just a saying at Hogwarts. They say…
Andrew: [laughs] That’s just a saying at Hogwarts. Everybody says it at Hogwarts.
Eric: “I’d rather jump off the Astronomy Tower than get this parchment to Professor Snape again.”
Andrew: [laughs] All right.
Eric: That’s what I’m thinking.
Micah: One of the twins makes a similar joke. I forget which book it’s in.
Eric: Oh, you’re right.
Andrew: Oh, really? There’s also a line in here about “I’d rather kill myself.” I’m like, oh my God, I forgot about these suicidal comments.
Superlative of the Week
Eric: Okay, let’s get to our MVP segment. Because Trelawney is unfortunately, I guess, sacked, what was the best all-time…? Andrew’s got the glasses ready…
Andrew: [imitating Trelawney] “Ehh?”
Eric: What is the best all-time Trelawney moment before she was fired?
Andrew: [imitating Trelawney] “When 13 dine together, the first to rise will be the first to die!” From Prisoner of Azkaban. And I love this line because it’s great to look back on in hindsight, but also, you can use it in the real world. If you have a table of 13, you’re like, “Oh, you-know-what. The first person to rise is going to die.” This happened to me last year at Friendsgiving; it was a table of 13. I don’t want to say who was the first to rise because I don’t want to put that bad juju out there, but I was thinking about it.
Laura: Oh, so no one’s died yet.
Eric: But you’ve kept the receipts. You know who it was.
Andrew: Oh, yeah. Oh, I know, and I am keeping a watchful eye on them.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: You should warn that person. If it’s not you, you should warn that person. That’s the right thing to do.
Andrew: [laughs] I actually… I’ll admit, I was the first one to rise because I didn’t want anybody else to die. I’m taking one for the team.
Eric: Oh, man. That’s so…
Laura: Andrew, how are we supposed to do this podcast?
Andrew: I’ll send you some instructions.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Andrew: I’ll tell you what: If there’s no show in a couple of weeks from now, then you should grow concerned. Other than that…
Eric: Like on Memorial Day when we take off?
Andrew: [laughs] Yeah, that’s what I was going for.
Eric: Yeah, yeah. Oh my God. Well, Laura, what is a good Trelawney moment?
Laura: So honestly, what I will give her – I think she’s kind of iconic for this; it’s also kind of toxic – but just the fact that she’s built an entire career off something that she can’t do consciously. So she’s only ever made two prophecies in her entire life that we know of, and she doesn’t remember doing either of them, and she still kept the grift alive. So I’ll give it to her. Get your bag.
Micah: Just briefly, I actually did find the line about the Astronomy Tower.
Andrew: Oh.
Micah: It’s from Prisoner of Azkaban. It’s after Harry falls from the Dementor attack during the Quidditch match and he’s in the hospital wing, and Ron makes some comment, and George responds, “Yeah, come on, Ron. We’ll walk you off the Astronomy Tower and see how you come out looking.”
Andrew: Oh my gosh. [laughs]
Eric: I’m telling you, it’s just a saying that they say at Hogwarts!
Andrew: Okay. Wow.
Micah: Now, for my Trelawney moment, I was wondering, Andrew, would you do the honors?
Andrew: Of reading it?
Micah: Yes, in your best Trelawney voice.
Andrew: Yeah, let me put the glasses back on. [imitating Trelawney] “One does not parade the fact that one is All-Knowing. I frequently act as though I am not possessed of the Inner Eye, so as not to make others nervous.”
Micah: Thank you, Trelawney.
Andrew: [imitating Trelawney] “You’re welcome.”
Micah: This was from Prisoner of Azkaban when they’re eating over the holidays, and she’s going back and forth with McGonagall.
Andrew: Ahh.
Eric: Oh, right, right. Yes, the safer skeptic than Umbridge.
Micah: Who… look, time heals all wounds, right? McGonagall and Trelawney in this chapter.
Eric: Oh, BFFs, yeah. I mean, not really.
[Micah laughs]
Eric: But McGonagall doesn’t agree with the methods that Umbridge is employing; she can’t get behind it. So I want to give a shout-out to… I think the most iconic thing that Trelawney did happened in this chapter before she was let go, which is that after the Quibbler article came out, the very next lesson – as various teachers are being extra nice to Harry, giving a little extra points towards Gryffindor for little things, or winking at him – Trelawney, who has spent nothing but Harry’s every lesson of Divination predicting that he will die in some kind of horrible way, instead regales the classroom with how Harry will grow to an old age, become Minister for Magic, and have 12 kids. And that is an official unofficial prophecy.
Micah: Ahh, 12.
Andrew: 12! Ding, ding, ding.
Eric: So I think that’s really fun, but it’s her way of, again, passive resistance. So good for her fighting the good fight, and sorry that Umbridge tries to get rid of her.
Lynx Line
Eric: We’re going to go over to our Lynx Line, and this is certainly a fun one. This week we asked our patrons to… that they’ve just read Harry’s Quibbler tell-all article, and why don’t you write him some fan mail or some hate mail? Because Harry gets both in this chapter, to be delivered via owl post to the Great Hall at breakfast.
Andrew: Girishma wrote,
“Harry,
You don’t know me, and for now, it’s better that way. Just know this: I’m in Slytherin, and I read your interview in The Quibbler. I believe you. So do others, more than you’d think. Not all of us have Death Eater parents or buy into the lies the Ministry and the Prophet keep feeding us. Some of us are watching, listening, thinking for ourselves. What you said, it mattered. It gave people like me a reason to speak a little louder in quiet corners, to ask harder questions, to push back when we can. Change is slow here, but it’s starting. You are not alone, not even in the dungeons. Keep going. The truth has more allies than you realize. In the end, we’ll have to fight, and I promise I will be fighting alongside you. Keep your head up.
Best regards,
A Slytherin who’s had enough”
Andrew: This sounds like something out of Andor, the new Star Wars show.
Laura: Right?
Eric: First of all, Oscar to Andrew for his enunciation there.
Andrew: Aw, thanks.
Eric: And good timing. I think that was a really good read of that. And then also props… Oscar to Girishma for singlehandedly redeeming Slytherins.
Andrew: No, this was a great idea to take it from this angle. “I can’t say who I am, but there are many of us who believe you.”
Eric: That’s really cool. Well, Jennifer writes,
“Dear Harry,
I hope this letter finds you well. I wanted to take a moment to reach out to you after you bravely proclaimed that Voldemort has returned. I can only imagine how difficult it must have been for you to speak out, especially given the heavy weight of expectation that comes from being the Boy Who Lived. Your message serves as a rallying cry for everyone to remain vigilant. Thank you for being an unwavering symbol of hope and heroism. Stay strong and take care of yourself. We all believe in you, Harry!
With admiration,
JP”
Eric: That would’ve been good.
Andrew: Aww.
Micah: Rachel wrote in to say,
“Dear Mr. Potter,
Thank you for sharing your side of events. Your life has been in the papers since before you could walk, and I can’t imagine all the scrutiny. Hearing what truly happened in the maze, and graveyard – there was a graveyard?! – was horrific, and I feel like I’m questioning everything in the Daily Prophet. Is this what the Muggles across the pond who watch Fox News feel like?”
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
“I’ve never seen it, but I hear it’s pretty skewed. Anyways, thank you for speaking up.
Sincerely,
A reader and supporter”
Laura: Love that. Next one comes from Mev, who is taking a more critical angle here.
Eric: Oh, good, because we said hate mail, so I’m glad for it.
Andrew: [laughs] Yeah, where’s the hate mail?
Eric: I was like, “Fan mail or hate mail!” Bless Mev.
Laura: “Dear Mr. Potter,
How dare you spin those lies about You-Know-Who coming back! Fill the minds of younglings with all those lies and scare them. My darling sweet pudding Margery is having nightmares because of your lies. Shame on you and Dumbledore. He should be ashamed of himself for letting you spin those lies. But I think that I should not at all be surprised; since you don’t have any parents, it’s obvious you seek attention that you did not get from them. They must be turning in their graves.
Yours sincerely,
Dorothy Hopsbridge”
Andrew: Wow.
Laura: So this person got a name!
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: Mev, you went in.
Eric: Oh, man. I don’t think I’ll recover from that.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: And finally, Kyle said,
“Dear Mr. Potter,
I know many people think you’re a bit of a nutter, but I’d just like to say that the world needs nutters like you to balance us all out.”
[Everyone laughs]
“Otherwise we’d all be bound by the boring boundaries of truth and reason. I hope you and Dumbledore continue to stick it to the vampire Fudge and insist that You-Know-Who is back. Of course, we all know he never really died; he just retired and took over as a barman in Aberdeen.
Cheers from a longtime fan; please give my best to Stubby.
Doris Purkiss”
Eric: What I love about Kyle’s is I forget, but the people that are reading Harry’s article, especially in the first print run, are likely people that already subscribe to The Quibbler…
Andrew: [laughs] Yeah.
Eric: … for its weird, wacky, and kooky articles about random stuff. And so the idea that some of the first people writing to Harry as a result of that would be these kooks… I love it.
Andrew: Yeah. Well, listeners, you can participate in the Lynx Line every week by becoming a patron at Patreon.com/MuggleCast. And if you have any feedback about today’s book club discussion, you can contact us by emailing or sending a voice memo that you record on your phone to MuggleCast@gmail.com. And next week, Chapter by Chapter continues with Order of the Phoenix Chapter 27, “The Centaur and the Sneak.” Don’t forget to check out our other weekly podcast, What the Hype?! and Millennial, for more pop culture and real world talk from the four of us. What’s been happening on What the Hype?!
Laura: So on What the Hype?!, we are continuing to cover Season 2 of The Last of Us. Eric and I, as well as our friend Chelsea, are doing live reactions on Sunday nights at 10:30 p.m. Eastern, right after the episode. So if you’re watching The Last of Us, come join us if you want to gush about the episode after it’s over.
Eric: Micah, come join us.
Laura: We also just finished covering Season 5 of You, and we’re getting ready to get into some Gilmore Girls 25th anniversary coverage, so we got a lot going on over there.
Andrew: And over on Millennial, Laura and I did a listener mailbag episode catching up on confessionals and some other listener feedback, and did some reminiscing, actually, about the MuggleCast days – the early MuggleCast days, I should say – and burning the episodes on CDs and stuff like that.
Quizzitch
Andrew: All right, now it’s time for Quizzitch.
[Quizzitch music plays]
Eric: This week’s question: What prison was the site of the largest jail break in British history, when 38 inmates – members of the Irish Republican Army – overpowered guards with smuggled weapons and hijacked a food truck in the year 1983? The name of the prison was the Maze, and 25% of people who got the correct answer said they did not look it up, so that’s pretty good odds. This week’s winners were Buff Daddy; Christa; Dumbledore the Rizzful; Had a very nerdy wedding on May 2, will share photos…
Laura: Aw, Congrats.
Eric: Congrats! Huffle Pufferfish; Kissed by the Blarney Stone; Patronus Seeker; StrayKneazle; ThE sMaRtEsT wItCh Of HeR aGE; Through goes Hamilton; and Tofu Tom. All right, and here is next week’s Quizzitch question – Andrew, thanks for setting this up a bit earlier – in banning The Quibbler, Umbridge only raises more interest in it. The concept of banning something only to make it more popular is colloquially known as the Streisand effect, after actress Barbra Streisand sued a photographer for publishing a photo in 2003. The question is: What was the photo of? Submit your answer to us on the Quizzitch form located on the MuggleCast website. Go to MuggleCast.com/Quizzitch, or if you’re already on the site, click on “Quizzitch” from the main nav.
Andrew: Thanks, everyone, for listening. Don’t forget to visit Patreon.com/MuggleCast to support us. We’d also appreciate a review in your favorite podcast app, and send an owl to a friend about the show if you think they would enjoy MuggleCast too. I’m Andrew.
Eric: I’m Eric.
Micah: I’m Micah.
Laura: And I’m Laura.
Andrew: See y’all next week. Bye, everyone.
Laura: Bye.