Transcript #225

MuggleCast 225 Transcript

Show Intro

[“Hedwig’s Theme” plays]

Micah: Because Harriet Potter just wouldn’t have sold as well, this is MuggleCast Episode 225 for April 9th, 2011.

[Show music begins]

Andrew: This week’s episode of MuggleCast is brought to you by, the Internet’s leading provider of audiobooks, with more than 75,000 downloadable titles across all types of literature, including fiction, non-fiction, and periodicals. For a free audiobook of your choice, go to

[Show music continues]

Andrew: Welcome to MuggleCast Episode 225! It has not been two weeks like it normally would be. Usually we release a new episode every other week but we had so much to get to on 224 that we wanted to do a quick turn around with 225, and that’s exactly what we’re doing. Micah and Eric and I are here this week, and also back after not being on for a long time, Ben – oh no, Matt Britton. Sorry.

Matt: Sorry. Second choice.

Andrew: Yeah.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: Sorry.

[Matt laughs]

Andrew: I don’t know, out of the corner of my eye, you looked like Ben. It was really weird.

Micah: No, our first choice!

Eric: Yes!

Matt: Oh. Well, thank you.

Andrew: That’s really sweet.

Matt: You guys are so sweet.

Andrew: I don’t know what the motive is there, but…

Micah: I was just trying to be nice. People tell me I’m not nice enough on the show…

[Eric laughs]

Micah: …so I’m just trying to be nice.

[Matt laughs]

Andrew: All right. Well, we have lots of news to get to and also we’re going to have the penultimate Chapter-by-Chapter installment for Goblet of Fire.

Eric: Woo!

Andrew: We’re going to be looking at Chapters 34 and 35 before wrapping it up next episode, so we have a lot to get to. I’m Andrew Sims.

Eric: I’m Eric Scull.

Micah: I’m Micah Tannenbaum.

Matt: And I’m Matt Britton.

News: Deathly Hallows – Part 1 DVD/Blu-ray Launch Event in NYC – “Maximum Movie Mode”

Andrew: Micah, what is in the news? We missed your anchoring on the last episode, I had to do it!

Micah: Yeah, yeah, I know and I did take a listen to the episode. You did a pretty good job, Andrew. I was rather impressed.

Andrew: Did I pass?

Micah: Yeah, you passed. You passed.

Eric: [laughs] Micah’s school of Harry Potter news anchoring.

Micah: But the reason why I wasn’t here last episode was because I was covering the Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows DVD and Blu-ray release in addition to the opening of Harry Potter: The Exhibition in New York city. WB I guess decided [laughs] it would be a good idea to combine both of these together, and just a lot of events that took place over the course of the last few days and a lot of stuff went on. So, the first event that took place on Sunday morning was they had all the fan sites get together and take a preview of what was going to be on the Deathly Hallows DVD and Blu-ray, specifically the Blu-ray. There’s this cool new feature called “Maximum Movie Mode” and it really allows you to get insight into what’s happening in a particular scene. And WB gave us two clips that were exclusive to the fan sites, one of Umbridge, and the other of Voldemort and Ralph Fiennes getting the makeup put on to play that role, and it’s really cool because you have either a member of the crew or, in the case of Umbridge, Jason Isaacs, talking about who the character is, what their role is in the series, or in the case of where you have the makeup being applied, how Ralph Fiennes goes about transforming into Voldemort. So…

Andrew: And you get this while you’re watching the movie, right?

Micah: Exactly.

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: Yeah, it’s happening in real time as you’re watching the movie.

Andrew: Which is cool because if you’re watching Part 1 again and maybe you don’t feel like – you want something new to look forward to, this is perfect and you get some canon as well, so it’s really interesting to watch.

Eric: Well – so my question – obviously they’re trying to – I saw these clips and they’re really cool, but I can’t help but feel like these special features, these behind the scenes, should have been on their respective DVDs, because, I mean, they’re showing how to create Umbridge, that happened in Movie 5, how to create Mad-Eye Moody, that happened in Movie 4. You’re watching Movie 7 but they’re going back to these old making-of’s. Where are the Movie 7 making-of’s that are going to show during the film?

Andrew: I’m sure there’s some of those in there.

Matt: Yeah.

Eric: And why is it – why weren’t these features utilized before? I guess I feel like, well, at least we’re getting them somewhere and somehow, but even the Extended Editions don’t have these – or these Ultimate Editions don’t have these really cool features that are on this Blu-ray “Maximum Movie Mode” of Deathly Hallows – Part 1 coming out Tuesday.

Andrew: Not all brilliant ideas come…

Matt: Yeah.

Andrew: …during the original conception, so…

Matt: There will be another release of all seven together…

[Micah laughs]

Matt: …and they’ll probably put them all again, so it’s going to be like the Ultimate Diamond Blu-ray Edition Extended…

Eric: I see. Well, that’s cool.

Micah: Yeah, I think it’s a good question, but the other side of it is, how many were available when Blu-ray was a reality?

Andrew: Right. Right! Micah makes a lot of sense. Blu-ray has only been around a couple of years, and you can only really do those kind of cool – well, I don’t know if this is a Blu-ray exclusive feature. They may have been able to do it on the DVD. In fact, they probably could have. If you can turn this “Maximum Movie Mode” on and off while you’re watching the movie then yes, that would be exclusive to Blu-ray. All right. So, the Apple Store Q&A, what happened over there?

News: Deathly Hallows – Part 1 DVD/Blu-ray Launch Event in NYC – Apple Store Q&A

Micah: Yeah, so after this event at – their offices, actually, is where we got a chance to take a look at the Blu-ray – they bussed us over to the Apple store which wasn’t that far away, and we got a chance to participate in a Q&A with a lot of members of the cast. This was, of course, in promotion of Deathly Hallows – Part 1, again, on [laughs] Blu-ray and DVD. They showed us a quick little snippet from Deathly Hallows to kind of intro it, and then all the members of the cast that were participating in this event were there.

Andrew: And who were some of those cast?

Micah: [laughs] Okay, let’s go through this: Freddie Stroma who plays Cormac McLaggen, Natalia Tena who plays Tonks, David Thewlis – Lupin – Evanna Lynch – everybody knows who she is – Warwick Davis who’s been on this show a couple of times, Helen McCrory, David Barron who is one of the producers, and Robbie Coltrane.

Andrew: David Heyman, too.

Micah: Yeah, I’m not done yet.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: That’s a lot. Wow.

Micah: There was a lot of seats there. There were a lot of seats. James and Oliver Phelps were there, Bonnie Wright, Michael Gambon, and as you mentioned, David Heyman. There were a couple of other cast members that showed up the next day for events at the exhibition, but those were the people that were there. And it was just – it was a huge showing by the cast.

Andrew: So, you said one of the highlights was this clip…

Micah: Well, that’s actually from the next day.

Andrew: Oh. I can’t keep track of all this. This is so much.

Eric: But why was this Apple Store – was it for the DVD?

Andrew: Yes…

Micah: Yes…

Andrew: …this was all…

Micah: …this was all for the DVD.

Eric: But when have they done this kind of promo for the DVD? I mean, this is massive.

Micah: When has ever one of their movies been on Blu-ray?

Andrew: Well…

Micah: I think that’s part of it.

Eric: Oh. Pushing the new format.

Andrew: Well, I think the thing is they are really trying to promote the films as much as possible now that everything is about to wrap up. They’re giving – they have one last shot for a lot of this stuff, so…

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: …this is part of it.

Micah: Well, Apple does this thing, though – isn’t it called “Meet the Producers” or “Meet the Directors”?

Andrew: Yeah, “Meet the Filmmakers,” something like that.

Micah: “Meet the Filmmakers,” that’s what it is, yeah. So, this was part of that series and this should now be available for free to download on iTunes where you can go and experience this just as we did. This was kind of an event, I think, that was more for the fans that showed up. We were able to ask questions if we wanted to, but we were kind of on the side just watching as the other fans that were there.

Matt: How many fans were there, Micah?

Micah: I would say there was probably seats for somewhere around 75 fans, and then there were some that were standing a little behind them in the background.

Matt: Mhm.

Micah: But one interesting thing – Matt, I know you were just at one of these events, but the captain of the NYU Quidditch team was there with members of the Quidditch team…

Andrew: That’s cool.

Matt: Wow.

Micah: …and they posed the question to the cast if they knew about Quidditch in its Muggle form, I guess you would say.

Matt: Uh huh.

Micah: [laughs] And Warwick Davis joked, “Do you have to be drunk to play it?”

[Andrew and Matt laugh]

Micah: So, they had a lot of interesting questions that they threw back at members of the crowd.

News: Harry Potter: The Exhibition Opens in NYC

Andrew: So – and then what else happened? An exhibition tour? You got to see the exhibition, finally!

Micah: Yeah, I did. It was really cool. That afternoon – [laughs] I was all over New York City on Sunday. Got a chance to go up to Times Square and see the exhibition, to walk through.

Andrew: Was it worth it?

Micah: Yeah, I definitely think it’s worth it if you’re a fan of the series. There’s a lot of cool stuff to take a look at. I know that they’ve added stuff that wasn’t there previously. There’s a few things from Part 2. The only thing I noticed was one of the Horcruxes, which was the cup. But there’s also been things that I’m sure have been added since it made its debut, stuff from Deathly Hallows – Part 1. So, it’s just really a lot of authentic things. I think any Potter fan, as I said before, is going to want to go and experience it. It’s right in the heart of New York City, so I know a lot of people make trips there at one point or another during the year. It’s going to be there over the summer through September, so I really recommend that fans that listen to us go out there and have a good time.

Andrew: And obviously, perfect timing with Dan’s musical being two blocks away, two or three blocks away. I mean, perfect two-in-one trip you can kind of make into the city to see both of those things.

Matt: Mhm.

Andrew: How much is the exhibition in Times Square? I imagine it must be pricey.

Micah: Actually, I didn’t even look. That’s a good question, I was wondering that.

Andrew: Wow, you make so much money, you don’t even…

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: Money is of no concern to you. That’s unbelievable, Micah!

Micah: But I didn’t pay to go see the exhibition. [laughs]

Eric: Oh.

Andrew: Oh!

Matt: Oh!

Andrew: That makes more sense.

Micah: [laughs] Warner Bros. was nice enough to say, “Go to the exhibition.”

Matt: How long, Micah, do you think that tour takes?

Micah: I think if you’re – well, there’s two ways you can go about it. You can get an audio companion, which I remember is $7.00. You can buy the audio companion and you press the buttons as you go along to get deeper insight into what you’re seeing, so if you do that, that might take a little bit longer. Or you can just go through without the audio companion. It’s probably somewhere between 30 and 45 minutes if you’re going to stop and you’re going to look at everything. There’s a couple of interactive pieces, like you can pull Mandrakes from dirt.

Andrew: Hey, I have a great idea. We should do our own exhibition commentary.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: Like, go through the exhibition, tour it – record as we’re touring it, tell people which way to go about the exhibition, and then we release it.

Eric: But what would we say? Because…

Andrew: Well, we’d give our own insight like, “Hey, this is from that specific scene. Do you remember that? Yeah!”

Matt: “Oh, hey. Yeah, you can’t see it right now, but we can.”

Andrew: No…

Eric: The insight…

[Micah laughs]

Andrew: …you would bring this with you, the viewer would bring this with them, and we would be the walking tour.

Eric: Like our… [laughs]

Matt: But maybe they want to go at a different pace than us.

Eric: Oh my God.

Andrew: Then they don’t buy the walking tour!

Matt: Oh.

Eric: Okay, so I looked up the Discovery Center, and the tickets for Harry Potter: The Exhibition are adults $25.00, seniors $22.50, children four to twelve $19.50, and children under four are free.

Andrew: That’s not too bad, actually.

Matt: Oh. Well, that’s because they won’t remember it.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: Okay, before we continue with today’s show, we’d like to remind everybody that this podcast is brought to you by, the Internet’s leading provider of audiobooks, with more than 75,000 downloadable titles across all types of literature and featuring audio versions of many New York Times Bestsellers. For listeners of this podcast, Audible is offering a free audiobook to give you a chance to try out their great service. One audiobook to consider is A Game of Thrones: A Song of Ice and Fire, Book 1. It’s a very popular book on Audible and a television adaptation is about to debut on HBO, called Game of Thrones. You may have heard about it. It’s getting a lot of pre-premiere hype. I’m personally really excited for it to begin. So, for a free audiobook of your choice, such as A Game of Thrones, go to That’s

News: Harry Potter: The Exhibition Roundtable

Andrew: So, in relation to the exhibition, there was also the roundtable, another press interview.

Micah: Yeah, another press conference, and this was, I think, really for the exhibition. This was inside Discovery Times Square. It was actually down where everybody gets sorted, that’s where our grouping was because the way that they did it was they put the fan sites together, and then they put [laughs] the rest of the media together. So, we got a chance to really have sort of that in-depth, personal conversation with a lot of – with all the actors that were there and…

Andrew: Good.

Micah: …the members of the crew, in addition to the people that I mentioned already. Mark Williams who plays Arthur Weasley was there, Clemence Poesy who plays Fleur, and Domhnall Gleeson who plays Bill, so those were three other people that were there.

Andrew: And we have a clip from it now. This is a funny moment, Micah particularly enjoyed this. This is Michael Gambon making a joke. What was the prompt? What was the question? Funny moments on set?

Micah: Well, we might actually hear it.

Andrew: Oh.

Micah: Yeah, it was something along those lines.

Andrew: All right, let’s listen.

[Audio clip plays]



In Film 3, I had to – the first film I did, I had to walk through the Great Hall in the middle of the night, with 500 children in sleeping bags…



Beautiful shot.

Gambon: …with Rickman. And Dan – Danny said he wanted to be put next to a certain girl.

[Everyone laughs]

Heyman: It’s true. Absolutely true.

Gambon: So Alfonso, the director, put him next to this girl, [laughs] but we hid a fart machine inside his sleeping bag.

[Everyone laughs]

Gambon: And I had the controller in my pocket. Dan thought the camera was running, but it wasn’t running. I mean, I operated it.

Moderator: Very well done.

Gambon: We nearly died laughing.

[Audio clip ends]

Andrew: That’s funny. You would have thought they would have kept that – put that in the – like, that’s just classic.

Eric: [laughs] It’s class-less.

Andrew: Oh, it’s Michael Gambon.

Micah: Yeah, he’s just having a good time.

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: There was another funny moment, too. Somebody asked the question of all of them, what is it like working with Dan? And everybody had nice things to say, but Warwick Davis mentioned that he thought that he was actually taller than Dan when Dan started the series.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Which probably actually isn’t true, literally speaking, but I get the joke. That is a funny joke.

Micah: But yeah – I mean, a lot of great questions, a lot of funny moments, and you can listen to both of those panels, I think, on the site right now.

Andrew: All right.

Micah: We have the audio up there, so…

News: Harry Potter: The Exhibition Red Carpet

Andrew: And then last but not least, the last event you attended was the red carpet for the exhibition and the DVD.

Micah: Yes.

Andrew: So, that was a two-in-one thing.

Micah: Yeah, that, I think, was for the rest of the media, in addition to us, to go and be able to take some photos. But all in all, just a lot of stuff going on, but great events and great job by Warner Bros. And it was a lot of fun.

Andrew: Well, thanks for covering it for…

Micah: I appreciate it.

Andrew: Yeah. Oh, you didn’t mention the after-party. That’s funny. You didn’t mention the after-party with the free alcohol.

Matt: Oh, what?

[Eric laughs]

Micah: Well, [laughs] we went over to the Hard Rock. It was just the fan sites and…

[Eric laughs]

Micah: …some other people that were working with us the whole weekend, and we got treated to a very nice dinner and some drinks from them, so…

Eric: So, that’s why you weren’t on MuggleCast on Monday.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Micah: Yeah, that’s why I was…

Eric: You were still raising up the bill over there.

[Micah laughs]

Andrew: All right. Great job, Micah. That was really…

Micah: Oh…

Andrew: What?

Micah: …you mentioned something on the last show, though, that I didn’t talk about yet, and that is that I did get a chance really briefly to talk to David Heyman.

Eric: Oh.

Andrew: Oh, right. Did you introduce yourself as “the person who you dueled”?

[Eric laughs]

Micah: No, I did not.

Andrew: The person he dueled on MuggleCast?

Micah: No, no, no, no.

Andrew: Oh.

Micah: I did not. But…

Andrew: So, how did the conversation go?

Micah: Yeah, it was a really quick conversation. He was coming out of the Apple store and talking with fans.

Andrew: Oh, okay. I thought you were going to be like, “Yeah, I kind of followed him for a couple of blocks.”

Micah: No, no, no.

[Eric and Matt laugh]

Micah: I turned the corner and he was talking with a bunch of other fans, so I figured it’s really just a good opportunity to say hello, and I mentioned that he did come on our 200th episode and he remembered it. He said that he was very gracious I think and just – he said he hoped that – Eric mentioned this on the last episode, but hoped that we all enjoyed Movie 2, or Part 2. And yeah, I know that you said that even if I didn’t enjoy it, I probably would have said that I did enjoy it.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: Yeah, I don’t think you’d be honest with him. I wouldn’t.

Micah: Would you?

Andrew: No.

Micah: No, you wouldn’t either, so…

[Eric and Micah laugh]

Andrew: I’d say, “Great job,” yeah.

Eric: Micah has turned the tables.

Micah: No, I listened to the last episode, so I know everything that got said. What’s interesting, too, I think is – and I couldn’t believe this when I heard it, was that it was Natalia Tena’s first time in New York.

Andrew: Oh wow. That’s exciting.

Micah: So, that was pretty cool. And one other really quick funny story and then we can move on, because you were talking about flying over here. There was a question if they had ever seen – kind of what their reaction is when they see themselves on television or when their movies are playing, and it so happened that the guy next to David Thewlis on the plane ride over here was watching – I think it was Deathly Hallows – Part 1 actually, or maybe it was Half-Blood Prince, something like that. And Robbie Coltrane was sitting a couple of seats behind and Natalia Tena was a couple of seats in front, so he was joking about how funny it would be if the other two just kind of walked over and joined David, and they kind of looked over the guy’s shoulder as he was watching the film.

[Matt laughs]

Micah: It’s kind of a surreal experience to have those people right there as you’re watching the movie.

Andrew: He probably wouldn’t have even noticed them. [laughs]

Micah: [laughs] No.

Andrew: They all look the same. I thought you were going to say they were going to act out one of the scenes or something.

Matt: Yeah.

Micah: [laughs] That would have been cool, too.

Andrew: That would have been funny.

Andrew and


Yeah. All right.

Andrew: Well, what else is going on in the news?

News: Deathly Hallows – Part 1 Deleted Scenes

Micah: Well, just quickly wanted to mention a lot of deleted scenes have been uploaded online from the Part 1 DVD, but we’re actually going to save talking about them, I think, until the DVD actually comes out, because it would just make sense on our review show, as we do with every DVD, to talk about it then.

Andrew: That’s absolutely right.

News: Helen McCrory Says Multiple Endings Shot for Malfoys

Micah: Good, I’m glad. Glad you agree. All right, final bit of news. As we’ve been talking about a lot of press going on the last few days, Helen McCrory, when she was on the red carpet with MTV, mentioned that there were multiple endings shot for the Malfoy family in Deathly Hallows – Part 2, and she wasn’t quite sure which one was going to end up being used. But seeing as how you and Eric have seen Part 2, maybe you can answer that question for her.

Andrew: I don’t think – I have to say, there wasn’t much of an ending. When I first read this article, I was kind of confused. I would just say don’t get your hopes up about a big ending for the Malfoys, because – at least in the cut that we saw, it’s not much of an ending.

Matt: But there isn’t really much of an ending for them in the book anyways.

Andrew: I know, but the point is that they shot four different things, including Narcissa – Helen says that she shot a duel, I think. So, hard to say right now. I’m surprised that they shot four for the Malfoys, that seems like a lot. But with the current cut that Eric and I saw in Chicago last week, I would say don’t get your hopes up for an exciting Malfoy ending.

Micah: All right. Well, that’s all the news.

Announcement: LeakyCon 2011

Andrew: All right, excellente. Well, before we move on to our What If segment this week, we would like to remind everybody that we’re going to be at LeakyCon 2011. is the site you can go to get all the information about the Harry Potter conference. It’s going to be held July 13th to the 17th in Orlando, Florida over the release of Deathly Hallows – Part 2. So, if you want to see the movie at a midnight showing with some of the biggest Harry Potter fans, this is the place to be. Not only is there going to be the midnight showing of the film, but there’s going to be group therapy after the film is released…

[Micah laughs]

Andrew: …and other things to help you deal. But not just that, there’s going to be a dance, there’s going to be a party in the theme park. There’s going to be a lot going on, including podcasts with Micah, Ben, Eric, and I. So, visit When you do register, get excited because we can’t wait to see you there, but also use the code “Muggle”, and that way we know that you’re coming, and we can’t wait to see you there at

Matt: Yeah.

What If The Main Character in Harry Potter Was Female?

Andrew: So, for the What If segment this week – we may have done this before but we’re not entirely sure. [laughs] So, instead of looking it up and figuring out if we did, we’re just going to do it anyway because it’s a good question. What if the main character in the Harry Potter series was a girl, and as Eric noted, Harriet Potter? And some examples of sub-questions are: Would the villain also be female? Micah, would the villain have to be a female Voldemort? Volderetta?

Micah: That’s, I guess, a good question. I don’t think it necessarily have to be the case.

Matt: Would it really be different, though, if Voldemort was a woman? I mean, what kind of a character change would there be?

Eric: The question is, because if Harry were a girl, would the villain – the villain would be like, “Oh, you mean old man,” you know? What kind of male villain picks on a young girl? You can’t even – you almost can’t even write about that.

Andrew: Well, think about Voldemort. He kills his fair share of women in the books over the series.

Matt: He’s not sexist when it comes to murdering people.

Eric: He’s not, no. But in terms of a story – the other thing that I kind of was going at with wanting to discuss this was, would the books have sold as well? Or how do you sell the books?

Micah: That goes back to the first question that Andrew asked, though. It was, if the main character changed, if Harry was a girl…

Eric: Well, they’ve…

Micah: I don’t think so.

Eric: If Voldemort were female, as the same…

Micah: I don’t think it would have sold as well.

Eric: Well, my question, I guess, as a sub-question was, would Voldemort be female because Harry was female?

Andrew: Yeah, I don’t think that’s a cause for…

Micah: Not necessarily.

Matt: There are series where the main character is a woman and the villain is a man.

Eric: True.

Andrew: Like?

Matt: The Hunger Games.

Andrew: Oh. Hmm, good point. I think they would have to call the books H.P. and the Sorcerer’s Stone, H.P. and the Chamber of Secrets

Eric: What, “H.P.” as…

Matt: Just like they do with JK Rowling?

Andrew: Exactly.

Eric: What? So, they are hiding, they are masking her femininity.

Andrew: Right, just like they did “JK Rowling.”

Eric: Well, that’s true.

Andrew: I wonder if JK Rowling is a little offended by that, in hindsight.

Eric: I’m sure that she doesn’t really…

Andrew: So, would the books be as successful?

Micah: No, I don’t…

Andrew: No?

Micah: Yeah, no. There’s no – it would not even come close to being as successful as it is right now. I think that because it’s a male character, it’s able to resonate more, I think, across gender. If it was a female character, I don’t think there is the chance of that. I mean, isn’t that the basis for Twilight, right? One of the main – or I guess – is the main character female, right?

Andrew: Yeah, but it’s a teen romance…

Eric: But she’s also the least rewarding female. She has the least rewarding qualities that you can possibly hope for. But I guess that series is pretty successful.

Matt: Well, no, the series is different than this because this is a fantasy novel and Twilight is more of a teen romance, where the readers are predominantly women or young girls…

Micah: Well, don’t you think…

Andrew: That’s true.

Matt: …and they want to connect with the main character because they want to be living through that character.

Micah: Well, don’t you think, though, that if Potter was a female, that you would lose a large demographic of people that read these books?

Matt: You know what? I kind of agree with you, Micah, but I don’t want to sound sexist.

[Micah laughs]

Eric: No, but it’s a good question because I think it’s really relevant in that, how would the books have to change so that they would be equally successful?

Andrew: Well, a comparable example is The Hunger Games. I wouldn’t call it a romance and there’s a large – the main lead character is a female, and I don’t think that affects the story at all.

Matt: No.

Andrew: Now I don’t think there’s – and so with that in mind, I don’t think there’s much about Harry that’s very – anything he does that’s very masculine…

Matt: No.

Andrew: …in the series. I mean, whether you’re a wizard or a witch, you’re going to cast the spells and you’ll cast the spells you need to get your way. I mean, look at Bellatrix. She’s an evil woman. Molly had the guts to kill Bellatrix.

Matt: And be the only one in the series to swear.

Micah: [laughs] Well, I definitely think there are strong female characters in the series. I would just wonder if – say there are young males. Are they going to read about a young female witch growing up over the course of seven books? No, they’re probably – they may read the first few books, but eventually it’s going to taper off because the interest, I don’t think, is going to be there.

Eric: Well, say it was written by the same JK Rowling, who is endlessly talented, who – she’s read all the same books as she did when writing Harry as a male character. The focus would not be, for instance, more on romance than it is for Harry. Romance might be in the book, but say all the books – everything about the books was the same, even, but Harry was a girl, and maybe the trio was then one girl and two guys.

Matt: Mhm.

Eric: How does that change things?

Matt: Well, the story wouldn’t – I don’t think the story would be affected. I mean, it would still be one of the best series written, but I kind of agree with Micah on the fact that – I think the fact that Harry is a boy that it caters to a broader reading group.

Andrew: That’s true. It is true. And I mean, then getting back to The Hunger Games, you have to wonder if the main character in The Hunger Games series was a boy, would it make a difference? I mean, I have yet to see a boy that’s like, “Oh, I’m not reading that because it’s a lead girl,” but I’m sure there’s people out there.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: And I mean, visa-versa about Harry Potter. Maybe there are some girls who haven’t wanted to read Harry Potter because it’s a lead boy.

Eric: Well, the…

Andrew: At least at a young age.

Eric: Yeah. I think Harry Potter – I mean, the interesting thing is – look, I was hesitant to read about a boy wizard because I was like, “Oh, magic…”

Andrew: You were hesitant to?

Eric: Yeah, yeah, because it’s like, “Magic, wizards, how silly!” It doesn’t seem like – oh, and there’s this mean guy out to get him with a weird name.

Matt: Who told you the premise of the story? They should be shot.

Eric: Well, it was…

Matt: “There’s this guy and he’s a wizard…”

Eric: It was just known because the books had been getting a lot of hype. It was, like, seventh grade, and sure enough, I picked up the fourth book, Goblet of Fire, and in the first chapter, there’s this guy named Wormtail and I didn’t understand it at all. So, I continued not liking and being really hesitant to read Harry Potter, and this was with all the – I mean, all the cards were stacked in what I would consider to be the right way for the books’ success, because I do believe, really interestingly, that the series would be completely different.

Micah: It would be because you would be following a female growing up versus a male growing up, and I do think that you would lose a lot of readers as a result of that and I don’t think the series as a whole would have been as successful. And it’s not trying to be sexist, it’s just the nature of writing that kind of book because you’re coming at it from a completely different perspective.

Eric: So, how – I ask this again: How would Voldemort change? How would Voldemort…

Micah: Would you even know that he’s male or female? I mean, when he was reborn did he get all his parts back?

Eric: Wow, wow, he could be…

Andrew: I mean, no. The only real indication is “He Who Must Not Be Named…”

Eric and



Eric: He…

Andrew: …and…

Eric: …or She…

Micah: Oh yeah…

Eric: …Must Not Be Named.

Micah: …that’s true.

[Eric laughs]

Micah: I was just trying to lighten the convo a bit.

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: But…

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: But…

Matt: I think with the case of – with the villain as Voldemort, I don’t think it really would even matter what sex it is. It is. [emphasizes “It”]

Eric: Well no, I’m still saying if Harry were a girl – but I’m saying how would the series play – it’s almost like because there is an obsession between the two of them, like a mutual obsession. It’s kind of really strange in a way even as it is.

Matt: Yeah, but then they could also play the whole, “They are complete opposites and they must duel because one is a male and one is a female.” I mean, it could still work.

Andrew: Yeah, but like I said earlier, Voldemort has never held back in terms of killing women, so I don’t think it would make much of a difference.

Matt: Yeah. And female villains can be just as ruthless.

Andrew: “The Chosen One” is not a gender-specific term.

[Eric laughs]

Matt: They are an equal opportunist.

Eric: Well, JK Rowling has a lot of strong female characters in her books, which is why it’s still – I feel it’s still rewarding. These books are so relevant for women to read because there are still these strong female characters and that helps, I think. People read about this boy and all these other boy characters. But at the same time, I was just – I couldn’t help but think, “What if?”

Chapter-by-Chapter: “Priori Incantatem”

Andrew: Well, that is how we play What If. I’m sure some people have some opinions on that, so feel free to e-mail in. Give us your feedback and we’ll read some of your responses on the next episode. So, now let’s get into Chapter-by-Chapter. As I said before, this is our penultimate, which means second to last, in case you didn’t know.

Micah: I like that word.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: [laughs] Because penultimate and paper are our priority at the moment.

Andrew: Yes. Chapters 34 and 35 are the ones that we’re looking at this week.

[Prolonged silence]

Andrew: It doesn’t help when I’m congested.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: I can’t breathe. Chapter 34, Priori – uh oh.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: Priori Incantatem. Priori Incantatem.

Eric: This is why…

Micah: Come on, what Michael Gambon says.

Andrew: It’s my New Jersey accent. I’m blaming all future misspeakings…

Eric: Mispronunciations?

Andrew: Yes.

Matt: Are you okay with your New Jersey…

Andrew: And also my cold. Okay, so the chapter begins with Voldemort asking Harry if he knows how to duel, and Harry considers what his options are because he’s never really dueled like this before and realizes the only spell he knows is Expelliarmus. He doesn’t think it’s going to be much use, but that’s pretty interesting because as we’ve talked about on the show before, especially after the seventh book came out, this ends up being his go-to spell throughout the rest of the books. So, Voldemort asks Harry if he’d like to be Crucio‘d again. He’s already Crucio‘d once and then Voldemort says, “Do you want it again?” And he doesn’t answer, so Voldemort puts the Imperio curse on him. So, we’re getting the whole tour of the three Unforgivable Curses. I don’t know if that’s like a thing of Voldemort’s to show off that he can do all three when he’s battling people, but that’s besides the point. Voldemort puts the curse on him. Now the question is, did Voldemort put the curse on him to simply answer the question because Harry wasn’t answering if he wanted to be Crucio‘d again, or was it to answer yes? If it was to simply answer, then Imperio did work. But if it was to answer yes, Harry actually overcame the Imperio curse. I don’t know if this was some sort of sign that Jo was trying to give us that Harry can take on Voldemort. What did you guys think?

Matt: Hmm.

Eric: I think it was to answer. I think it was to answer, because Voldemort makes a show of things in this whole scene. His Death Eaters have been long away from him and he wants to kind of showcase his own best traits – what he thinks to be the best traits. He wants to instill fear, he wants to show that he can be formal, “Harry, surely you’ve been taught to duel,” that sort of thing, and – so yeah, when he Crucio‘s him, it’s kind of to show that he hasn’t lost his edge, but also, he’s not looking for a yes answer, he’s looking for an answer because he feels that wizards – full-blooded, pure-blooded wizards – which Harry isn’t, I guess, but neither is Voldemort – should duel properly and I think that that’s really important to Voldemort. He wants to play with Harry before he kills him.

Matt: Mhm. Well, Voldemort is a very theatrical villain if you really think about it. I mean, with everything that he does, especially with the Unforgivable Curses, he only does them mainly because to show that he can do it with just a flick of a wand, he doesn’t even have to think about it. And the fact that he just became resurrected and can do this for nothing, he’s basically showing to his followers that he hasn’t lost his edge at all for being gone for so long, and…

Andrew: That’s true.

Micah: Yeah, didn’t Harry resist the Imperius Curse during the Defense Against the Dark Arts lessons with…

Matt: Yeah, he did.

Micah: …impostor Moody? So, clearly I think it’s just a sign that he’s good at Defense Against the Dark Arts.

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: And he has this ability to resist even an Unforgivable Curse. We see, later on in the next chapter, that he’s not the only one who can do it, but it takes a lot of character to be able to accomplish that.

Andrew: In this moment, too, we do see Harry try to resist it, and he does hold it off for a little while, but then eventually he can’t help but scream, “No!” Harry and Voldemort end up throwing Expelliarmus and Avada Kedavra, respectively, at the same time at one another. And then it enters this crazy mode, where their wands are connecting, their spells are connecting. And Harry begins to hear the Phoenix Song. And slowly, one by one, smoke-like figures start coming out of the wands. First is Cedric, then Bertha, then Lily, and finally James, and Lily kind of teases that James is about to arrive. He’s sort of like the grand finale. And the dead begin to speak to him and tell him, “We can hold you off, Harry. We can hold off Voldemort, but only just enough time for you to get back to the Portkey.” And Cedric says, “Hey, also, can you bring my body back?”

Matt: [laughs] Hey, Harry, buddy…

Andrew: One last favor.

[Eric laughs]

Matt: If it’s not too much trouble, can you…

Eric: Hey, buddy.

Matt: …bring my dead carcass with you, please?

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: Well, wasn’t – this was a big issue at one point, right? Because the order was messed up in some of the earlier publications.

Andrew: Yes.

Micah: It was James, and then Lily…

Eric: Yeah. Yeah, it was.

Micah: …so people thought something was up.

Eric: Yeah.

Matt: Oh yeah!

Eric: That James had somehow outlived Lily, which is not technically how the story goes and that we were told previously. So, that was cool. And then also, I thought – isn’t the reason – well, kind of smart. I mean, I know he’s only in his fourth year, but – or no, seventh year. He’s a seventh year. Do you think Cedric asked Harry to take his body back because the Death Eaters would have misused it? Turned it into an Inferi or something?

Andrew: Well, Cedric…

Eric: That later on in the book series, Harry would have had to face a zombie Cedric?

Andrew and Matt: No.

Andrew: Cedric said, “Bring it back to my parents.” I mean…

Matt: His father.

Andrew: His father. So, any…

Eric: But really, you don’t want Death Eaters misusing your body.

Andrew: No. And you also want your body to go back to your father, so…

Matt: They can at least do something.

Andrew: …it was a reasonable request.

Matt: Yeah. I would do it. [laughs] I’m already dead. Well…

[Eric and Matt laugh]

Matt: …I don’t have many options after…

Eric: Okay.

Micah: How does the Portkey get activated, though?

Eric: That’s a good question because Portkeys – are they a one-time thing? Are they not a one-time thing? I mean, you’ve heard that they kind of have to schedule them, right?

Andrew: Well, they did for the World Cup.

Eric: At the beginning of the book.

Andrew: Yeah, and that was to help stagger the amount of people going into the World Cup area at specific times.

Matt: And you also don’t want random people picking them up, too.

Eric: Right.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: So, the fact that the cup is a Portkey now – as though like, once a Portkey, always a Portkey, is what it…

Matt: Yeah.

Eric: …seems to be like now.

Andrew: In this case, yeah. So, Harry-o…

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Andrew: Harry Accio‘s the Portkey and it comes flying to him, and he’s already – he’s got Cedric’s body so they both are transported. Now, I’m wondering if this was kind of an oversight on Voldemort or the Death Eaters’ part to not have destroyed the Portkey, because for it to just be sitting there – obviously they knew it was still active. They had to have known that. So, who screwed up? Who’s getting killed for this?

Eric: Well, Voldemort didn’t have a body [laughs] when Harry first arrived, so we can’t blame him.

Andrew: Right. Well, of course Voldemort would end up blaming it on one of the Death Eaters.

Eric: Yeah.

Matt: Yeah.

Andrew: Or maybe Wormtail. But I just thought that was kind of an oversight that – that is the cause, the reason, that the series continued is because somebody…

Eric: [laughs] Forgot to…

Andrew: …forgot to [laughs] get rid of the Portkey.

Matt: Well, he also over-sighted the fact that there could be Priori Incantatem with him in his wand, too. I mean, it wasn’t even really a factor that he would even escape even the clutches of [laughs] Wormtail.

Eric: Because at that point, Voldemort didn’t know that there was something wrong with using his wand against Harry’s, which was flawed. The Phoenix Song, though, during Priori Incantatem – do you think that’s because of the phoenix core in their wands? People associate the phoenix with Dumbledore, and either way it looks bad for Voldemort. But do you think it’s because both their wands contain phoenix feather that there was some kind of…

Matt: I think so.

Eric: …song when they connected?

Matt: I think – well, the fact that both of their wands are connected to a single song bird, I think there’s that sort of connection. And doesn’t it say in the book that he hears it in his chest, or in his heart or something? Like he doesn’t – he feels it more than he…

Eric: It’s kind of like a magic, yeah.

Matt: Yeah.

Eric: Yeah.

Matt: Like it’s going through his body.

Andrew: Yeah, because he describes the sensation similarly to holding that spell against Voldemort, as well.

Eric: Very interesting.

MuggleCast 225 Transcript (continued)

Chapter-by-Chapter: “Veritaserum”

Andrew: And that’s the chapter. So, now we move on to Chapter 35, “Veritaserum.”

Micah: Yes. Well, [laughs] this is kind of the chapter where everything is revealed…

[Eric laughs]

Micah: …as to what’s been going on over the course of the previous 34 chapters, [laughs] so there’s a lot in this chapter. It starts with Harry returning from the graveyard with Cedric’s body, and there’s this moment where he refuses to let go of it. He’s essentially locked onto Cedric. And Dumbledore pries him away, and it’s quoted as saying that he “showed enormous physical strength for a man his age,” so I was wondering, does Hogwarts have a gym?

Andrew: Well…

Micah: [laughs] Does Dumbledore go and work out?

[Eric laughs]

Micah: Or is he just physically strong?

Eric: Dumbledore can levitate people without it making it look like he’s levitating people. [laughs]

Andrew: And it also sort of just shows the emotional strength going through Harry at that time.

Eric: Well, I think, too, when Harry realizes – or if Harry realized that it was Dumbledore’s hand on his shoulder, then he would feel safe enough to let go, even unconsciously.

Micah: Right.

Eric: Or subconsciously.

Micah: So, there are obviously a lot of people around and more are coming, so there’s this moment where Dumbledore tells Harry just to stay put so he can go and speak with Cedric’s parents. And Dumbledore, really, at this point shouldn’t even let Harry [laughs] out of his sight. I don’t know why – he clearly knows that something is wrong, and Moody comes over and ends up pulling him up back to the castle, and he takes him into his office and he immediately starts asking him questions about the graveyard. And he does reveal it was him who put Harry’s name under a fourth school into the goblet, that he tipped off Hagrid about the dragons, he told Cedric about listening to the egg underwater. And he mentions that Harry has this streak of pride and independence about him, and sort of the fact that he didn’t really go to anybody else for help about the task. Do you think – does this come up at any other time in the series, where he’s too proud to go to other people and ask for assistance?

Eric: The – well, how about writing Sirius? He never wants to write Sirius, and Ron and Hermione are like, “You’ve got to tell Sirius about this,” but he’s like – maybe then it’s not pride but it is sort of putting others in front of himself because he doesn’t want to arouse suspicion. Maybe sending letters to his escaped convict godfather – but he also doesn’t want to bother them. He’s very – he feels like he’s over-exaggerating all the time. But I wanted to ask about this – one question about the technique of Moody – or actually Barty Crouch, Jr. – putting Harry’s name into the goblet under a fourth school. Just thinking about it – just when Micah said it there, I was wondering, what if he just put it under “Hogwarts”? And obviously Harry and Cedric would have had to, in the goblet’s mind, duke it out. But would it have aroused – I think it would have aroused more suspicion, wouldn’t it have, than if there were four champions? What would have looked better for Harry, and why did Barty Crouch, Jr. even think to do it as a fourth school instead of just Hogwarts? Because Harry could have been up – it could have just been without Cedric. The whole equation could have been without Cedric. It could have just been Krum and Fleur and Harry as the Triwizard Tournament.

Andrew: Maybe Moody just wanted to create that extra tension between the Hogwarts houses, because as we saw, everybody was kind of very confused by it. And it did create a little bit of tension, although we didn’t see it much in the books, but I would think that people were like, ooh, well, I’m in Hogwarts, but am I supposed to be cheering – or rooting for Harry or rooting for Cedric? So, maybe he just wanted to create a little more drama.

Matt: Maybe Barty Crouch just couldn’t – or Barty Crouch, Jr. – just couldn’t Confund the entire Triwizard Cup or the Goblet of Fire thing because it was just too old, ancient of magic for him to Confund it, so he could only just add another name to it instead of redo the entire rules…

Eric: Oh, that’s…

Matt: …that came with the Goblet of Fire.

Eric: Right. That’s actually a good idea. And then the other thing is, what fourth school? What’s the fourth school that he put? Was it Pigfarts or…

Andrew: I guess we’ll never know, because he didn’t name it.

Micah: Yeah, Pigfarts sounds good. I mean, it just ensures that he’s going to be selected. I mean, if you’re in a school all by yourself…

Eric: Oh, right!

Micah: …you’re definitely going to be chosen.

Eric: You could put Neville Longbottom in there…

Micah: I guess.

Eric: …three years too early.

Micah: Well, speaking of him, he specifically refers to Neville when he’s talking to Harry and he said – he basically tells him, you’re an idiot. I gave this book to Neville how many months before the task even happened, [laughs] and you didn’t even think about going to talk to him. You don’t use your peers to your advantage. And he talks about – Barty Crouch, Jr. talks about how he has taken advantage and manipulated all these innocent people. He talks about how he called Dobby into the staff room because there were robes that needed tending to, and that he had this loud conversation with McGonagall about Gillyweed. And all these people that Barty Crouch, Jr. has just been able to manipulate over the course of this entire book: Hagrid, Cedric, Neville, Dobby. There’s just this long list, and I guess – is that just part of the quality of being a Death Eater?

Eric: Not just – well, not a Death Eater because Voldemort also doesn’t really use his friends to his best advantage. Well, he doesn’t have friends, but I feel like it’s good advice that Barty Crouch is giving Harry, but it’s kind of – I mean, it’s coming from the horse’s mouth. Harry isn’t really able to pay attention to this, but I think it’s very true, with the way that Harry doesn’t manipulate people. Not all manipulation is bad, and I don’t think – or at the very least, not all manipulation is selfish, and I think Harry could really learn from at least some of this that Barty Crouch is saying to him. I mean, even now, this is the Barty Crouch that said, you could be an Auror one day, and inspired Harry to really find his only career path. He’s still teaching him here, even though it’s kind of in a really awkward way because he also wants to know more information about Voldemort because he wears Voldemort pajamas to bed.

Micah: Really? I didn’t know that. [laughs] So, Moody goes on – or Impostor Moody goes on and tells him how he went about fixing the final task, about how he stunned Fleur and used the Imperius Curse on Krum in the hope that he would attack Cedric Diggory. And so you’ve kind of gotten a look now at all three tasks and how Harry has had the path cleared for him, and maybe we talked about this a little bit, but is this more proof that Harry just has everything happen by dumb luck as opposed to skill?

Andrew: Yeah.

Matt: Yeah.

Andrew: Well, again, the whole Portkey thing. Nobody thought to take it away. I mean, if it were still there, then he would have gotten into a more serious skillful duel with Voldemort.

Eric: Well, hang on. It’s just a cup, though. Portkeys are disguised to look like nothing. And the other thing is that not even the Death Eaters saw Harry arrive, right? Because…

Andrew: Yeah, but somebody knew. Somebody knew it was…

Eric: Well, it was only after – only Wormtail can be blamed, because only after Voldemort had a body did he summon the other Death Eaters. So, none of them even knew that the cup was how Harry got to the graveyard.

Matt: Right. I mean, if you want to talk about luck, with Harry always getting out of situations just because of luck, then you’ve got to assume that when it comes to Harry, Voldemort just has really bad luck, because every time, after every book, he always manages to escape by some type of chance.

Micah: Yeah. No, that’s a good point. Now, throughout this whole conversation that Impostor Moody is having with Harry, he keeps asking about what happened in the graveyard, what happened to the Death Eaters. He has this clear disdain for the other people who did not go to Azkaban, and he wants to know if they were punished and tortured. He just has this appetite for pain. He wants to know if these people who are not the Lestranges of the Death Eater community, just like he also went to Azkaban – he wants to see the Lucius Malfoys of the world tortured, essentially. Again, is that a quality of – I mean, [laughs] you have Death Eaters wanting pain inflicted upon other Death Eaters, so I guess that just shows you how demented this group of people are.

Eric: That’s true. But even – it reminds me of Sirius, at the end of Book 3. Sirius is deranged for quite some time, because he wants to kill Pettigrew, his own friend. Obviously, Pettigrew betrayed his friends, but Sirius, too, just out of Azkaban, is deranged, he’s not quite all there, he’s – only when Remus says, no, it’s Harry’s decision whether Pettigrew lives or dies, does Sirius – is even able to be convinced. But going in the dormitory, going in the Gryffindor dormitory with a knife, above Ron Weasley’s bed, hoping to find the rat and stab him, [laughs] is kind of just as manic, in a way.

Micah: Yeah. Well, I mean, more than anything else, he wants to see the people who weren’t loyal to Voldemort pay, because he had to pay. He had to spend all this time in Azkaban. So, eventually Dumbledore, Snape, and McGonagall burst in as Moody is about to pull a wand out of his robe, most likely to kill Harry, and…

Andrew: Again, luck.

Micah: [laughs] Yeah!

Matt: Mhm.

[Eric laughs]

Micah: Nick of time! But what’s interesting is, leading up to this, there are these figures that appear in the Foe-Glass that Moody has in his office, and it’s supposed to show who your true enemies are. And as the conversation goes on, you see these figures slowly starting to take form, and what’s interesting is, not necessarily Dumbledore and McGonagall, but Snape appears very clearly in the Foe-Glass as an enemy of Imposter Moody. So, this was like a clue early on that Snape is, in fact, good.

Eric: There’s always a question, isn’t there? It’s always up to an opinion, because you could also argue that the Foe-Glass is possibly faulty, or it’s – you know, it’s never…

Andrew: Right.

Eric: We know – it’s just like the Sneakoscope going off.

Andrew: It’s never as clear as everything appears to be.

Eric: Yeah.

Matt: Mhm.

Eric: So, it’s always – she always masks it with this air of uncertainty that’s really brilliant.

Micah: Mhm. Now, when the door burst open, there’s this look about Dumbledore that helps Harry understand why he’s the only wizard that Voldemort ever feared. And I think we only see this a couple of times in the series, where Dumbledore is really pissed off. Would you guys be afraid of a pissed-off Dumbledore?

Andrew: Yeah, because like you said, you don’t see him much, and when you respect Dumbledore so much – and he’s usually so calm…

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: …with Fawkes in his office…

Eric: To see him lose it. Do you think that Dumbledore was on the verge – do you think Dumbledore really wondered if he had lost his only player, his only chess piece, his only pig for slaughter?

Andrew: I’m sure there was a bit of concern, yeah.

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: [laughs] So, Dumbledore tells McGonagall to go down to Hagrid’s hut and to take the dog that’s sitting there up to his office. That plays a role later on in the book. And he tells Snape to go get Veritaserum from his storeroom, and then to go get Winky out of the kitchens. And then Dumbledore administers the Veritaserum to this Imposter Moody, now Barty Crouch, Jr. He has transformed back. And we learn this entire backstory. Eric, I think in a previous episode, you kind of touched on this, how much story exists. You did – I think it was “The Pensieve” chapter, where he goes back into the trials. And this is kind of lost in the movies. So, to just kind of run through it real quick, we learn that Barty Crouch, Jr. exchanged places with his mother in Azkaban. She was dying and the Dementors can’t tell the difference, I guess, between one dying person and another. And his father kept him under the Imperius Curse, but eventually Barty Crouch, Jr. grew stronger. One day, Bertha Jorkins came to the house and found out that Barty Crouch, Sr. had – oh, sorry. And then Barty Crouch, Sr. confronts her and realizes that he’s going to have to modify her memory. So, really it’s Barty Crouch, Sr. that sets all this in motion, not only by getting his son out of jail, but then by messing up Bertha Jorkins’ memory so much that it’s damaged. And she finds her way to Albania where she runs into Wormtail, and Voldemort is able to break through the Memory Charm that Barty Crouch, Sr. has put on her. And he gets all of this information out of her, the fact that Barty Crouch, Jr. is still alive, the fact that the Triwizard Tournament is going to be taking place at Hogwarts. And so, essentially, now all Voldemort needs to do is show up on [laughs] the Crouch’s doorstep and take advantage of the situation, and that’s exactly what he does. We learn that Crouch, Jr. was at the Quidditch World Cup, and he was the one who conjured the Dark Mark with Harry’s wand. It was actually Winky who convinced Barty Crouch, Sr. to let his son go to the Quidditch World Cup because he needed some fresh air or something like that. But as I mentioned, Wormtail and that weird form of Voldemort eventually show up on the Crouch’s doorstep, and now Barty Crouch, Sr. gets put under the Imperius Curse and he starts sending letters to the Ministry, basically giving instructions to Percy on what he needs to do at work. But there is that moment where he escapes and he makes it to Hogwarts, but Crouch, Jr. is able to intercept him because of the Marauder’s Map, and he eventually kills him and turns him into a bone, and buries him in Hagrid’s pumpkin patch. So, it’s a ton of backstory [laughs] that you get there within just a couple of pages, maybe like five to ten pages, but this has all been going on while…

Eric: Yeah. This is – and it’s so rich.

Micah: Yeah.

Eric: It’s so rich. Do you think that when Voldemort and Wormtail showed up at Barty Crouch’s house that Voldemort was in a little baby carrier on Wormtail’s chest? Do you think that that’s how it went down? And they knocked on the door…

Micah: Did he have a death rattle in his hand?

[Eric laughs]

Micah: Sorry, that was a bad joke.

[Eric laughs]

Micah: No, but [laughs] there’s really not much more to this chapter. There’s just a lot of plot to digest. That’s really what it is.

Eric: But it’s so good.

Micah: So, that’s how the chapter ends. [laughs]

Andrew: All right.

Micah: [laughs] Sorry.

Andrew: [laughs] Well said.

[Matt and Micah laugh]

Andrew: And like I said, on the next episode, so long as it’s not our trailer episode, we will wrap the book up. We’ll be done with Goblet of Fire once and for all.

Eric: Which leaves only Order of the Phoenix, right?

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: We’ve worked on this before, we’ve talked about this.

Micah: Then the show is over.

Eric: We’re one book away from the end.

Favorites: Quidditch Position

Andrew: It’s now time to play Favorites and this week we have “Favorite Quidditch Position.” Very simple.

Micah: Is that suggestive?

[Matt laughs sarcastically]

Andrew: Eric, what is your favorite Quidditch position?

Eric: Yes, please.

[Micah laughs]

Andrew: Matt, how about you?

Matt: I like the Snitch.

Andrew: Favorite Quidditch position [emphasizes “position”].

[Eric laughs]

Matt: Are we talking about Muggle Quidditch or Wizard Quidditch?

Andrew: Favorite Quidditch position [emphasizes “position”].

Micah: If you were playing and you couldn’t be the Snitch.

Matt: If I was playing – oh, okay. Right. I would pick probably Chaser.

Eric: That’s a good one.

Andrew: I’d be the Seeker.

Eric: You’d be the Seeker? Micah?

Andrew: It’s fast and once you catch a glimpse of the Snitch, you must get so excited.

Matt: Yeah, but you’re sitting there for most of the duration.

Eric: Days, even. Days.

Micah: I’d say Beater.

Eric: Beater. Oh yeah, of course. I forgot about Beaters. I wouldn’t want to be the Keeper. I think any position besides the Keeper because I get really nervous and it doesn’t work out well. But, Beater? Beater, maybe? Yeah, absolutely. I’m going to go with Micah. Micah and I would be Beaters.

Deathly Hallows – Part 2 Mini-Discussion

Andrew: All right. Well, for the rest of the show, we are going to be talking about Deathly Hallows – Part 2. You may remember that on the last episode, Eric and I went into a lot of spoilers in the second half of the episode, and we’re going to do that again this time.

Micah: But you didn’t even scratch the surface!

Andrew: But we didn’t scratch the surface, right. So, if you don’t want to be…

Eric: Micah, are you holding a grudge? Geez! What’s going on?

Micah: No, no, no! You guys did a great job last – I’m just saying that there were things that were omitted.

Andrew: So, if you don’t want to be spoiled, you should stop listening now because for the rest of the episode, we are going to be touching on some spoilers.

Matt: Oh God.

Andrew: Not too many, though. I mean – well, yeah, we will. [laughs]

Eric: We got some Muggle Mail.

Andrew: So…

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: So, thanks for listening if you’re going to stop now.

Matt: All right, bye guys.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: So, Micah, you had some specific questions.

Micah: All right, so just some of the questions that I had coming off of last episode where – were you surprised at the number of characters that were present in the final battle, and kind of who stood out to you? Maybe people that you weren’t necessarily expecting to see that were there.

Eric: Definitely, for me – Andrew, do you want to answer it, or should I?

Andrew: Well – I mean, just briefly for me, the only – I was just surprised to see Sprout because I don’t think we had seen her in a while. She didn’t have any lines, but we do see her in a few scenes.

Eric: She’s very prominently seen, like very visible.

Andrew: Yeah. How about you, Eric?

Eric: Yeah, yeah, Sprout and Trelawney, I want to say, because there’s even a…

Andrew: Oh yeah, I forgot about her.

Eric: There’s even a brief moment with Trelawney and I think it’s one of those things where Hogwarts is under attack, so surely you’re going to see all the teachers. But to have that kind of foresight to call all these actors back into action – they all seem to have been willing enough to do it again, so I think that that’s…

Matt: So, how is the Trelawney scene?

Eric: Oh, it’s brief. It’s in the Great Hall. I don’t even know what she’s doing, she’s talking to somebody else. But you see her and the camera kind of – it doesn’t even focus on her, but she’s there. You absolutely see her.

Matt: She doesn’t even have a line?

Eric: She has a line, but it’s to somebody else.

Andrew: She says something.

Eric: Yeah, she says something but it’s not to – she doesn’t hit anybody with frying pans or bottles of sherry or anything like that.

Matt: She doesn’t hit Fenrir Greyback in the head with a crystal ball?

Andrew: No.

Eric: No. That happens in the book, though, doesn’t it?

Andrew: What other questions do you have, Micah?

Micah: All right. Well, this is a question a lot of people actually sent in that I had asked you guys, I think, when we weren’t recording, but – Peter Pettigrew, he doesn’t kill himself in the end of Part 1, like he does in the book. What, if any – does this play itself out in Part 2 at all?

Andrew: We get – and I’m sorry to break the news. We get no ending for Pettigrew.

Eric: [laughs] He’s not even…

Andrew: There’s a brief…

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: …flashback, but nothing else.

Eric: Yeah, we don’t see Pettigrew. He’s not – he’s extremely absent from the final battle, which…

Andrew: And Heyman said in an interview recently that they do not tie it up, so that is one hundred percent not happening.

[Eric laughs]

Matt: Well, that is one hundred percent dumb.

Eric: Wow. Micah, you dumbfounded me in your question. I just – I can’t – it’s so funny because we wondered and I argued that it was leading up to a much more epic Part 2, the fact that they didn’t kill Pettigrew at the end of Part 1, that he had a role to play. But…

Micah: Didn’t Heyman refer to his death as juvenile…

Eric: Oh!

Micah: …in that article?

Eric: That’s a good question.

Matt: Oh, whoa. Wait, what?

Eric: That’s kind of critical for Heyman.

Micah: Yeah, and I think he said…

Matt: His death was juvenile, so we decided to have him pass out and that’s it?

Eric: That’s interesting.

Micah: Pretty much. I mean, it’s disappointing, I think, in the sense that all the Marauders for the most part, I think, you see die in this film, or you see Lupin dead at the end, you guys mentioned that. But the whole point was that all four of them were supposed to die, and even the life-debt that he owes Harry – I mean, I think you showed it in Goblet of Fire, why not have the [laughs] payoff in Deathly Hallows?

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: You showed him getting his hand. Why not – but, okay. Anyway, in the review that you guys posted on the site, you mentioned that Neville and McGonagall had standout scenes. What was so good about them?

Eric: Geez, this is such a question, though. You really want to be spoiled. I mean, isn’t it good enough that…

Micah: That’s the point of spoilers.

Eric: Okay, but isn’t it good enough that Neville and McGonagall had standout scenes? You really want to know what they are? That’s a really specific question.

Andrew: Yeah, it is. It may be too much, Micah. I’m sorry.

Eric: But Neville does a speech, we’ll just say that. Neville has kind of a speech moment in addition to – actually, Neville fends off nearly the entire army of Death Eaters as well, at one point.

Andrew: Yeah, and I almost thought it was too much, what they have Neville do. And as for McGonagall, she has a little mini-speech kind of moment. But she’s the headmistress, so…

Eric: That’s true.

Andrew: …she does take an orderly role, and that’s what you’ll see.

Micah: Mhm. And Eric, one thing that you mentioned to me was that there’s no scene between her and Harry and the Carrows in…

Eric: That’s true.

Micah: …the Ravenclaw common room.

Eric: Where they spit on McGonagall. Yes, that does not happen, and in fact, the Carrows exist in the movie but they have no lines and I think that that was a really big – it’s obviously going to be a really big change for the readers, for the listeners – might be shocked right now. But I do think – the one thing about this film is Hogwarts is shown so much, that even in the beginning of the film when Hogwarts is shown, you see students actually marching in rows of like five and columns of four. They’re marching to and from their classes with Snape presiding. The idea that Hogwarts is now a police-state of sorts, kind of V for Vendetta-ish, the idea that these students are being oppressed is already conveyed by the imagery, by what you’re seeing on screen. And when the trio do get back to Hogwarts, Neville fills them in over everything that’s been happening. Plus, he’s got, I don’t know, a missing tooth or a black eye or something that helps also convey that Hogwarts has not been a wonderful place. What you don’t need are these really disrespectful Death Eaters who we’ve never seen before in the films. Maybe they could have given that role to Pettigrew, given him something to do. But what you don’t need is these people we’ve never seen before causing a ruckus and then it wouldn’t have been as meaningful, I don’t think, on film.

Matt: Mhm.

Micah: Yep.

Andrew: What other questions do you have?

Micah: All right. Well, how about Snape’s death scene? I know you touched on it briefly in the last episode, but changing it from the Shrieking Shack to the boathouse – you don’t have to go into too much detail, but how is it different, and did it work?

Andrew: It worked. It was an emotional scene, obviously – or honestly, it doesn’t matter that it wasn’t in the Shrieking Shack. There’s very little difference that is made here. I think people will find it just as emotional as they did in the books.

Matt: Was there a tear?

Eric: Actually, there wasn’t, but…

[Eric and Matt laugh]

Eric: …it’s funny…

Andrew: [laughs] He’s asking because I told him.

Eric: Oh, was there a tear? No, there wasn’t. Okay, so we saw this film in a really unfinished state, and because Snape – when he’s dying after the snake has attacked him, Snape is dying, and he’s obviously – he starts bleeding from his neck and his eyes. Tears of – well, what Harry thinks is tears, but it’s actually memories. His memories are starting to flow out of him and Harry has to grab something real quick. But anyway, because it’s silky, white, silvery tears, instead of regular tears, there actually weren’t any tears coming from Alan Rickman when he’s dying. So, there’s an extreme close-up – and remember, this unfinished version of the film is complete with subtitles and little cue cards for when something CGI will be put on screen but hasn’t made it yet. And so Snape’s final death look at Harry, it’s very emotional. Harry walks in after Voldemort leaves, kneels next to him, kind of looks at Harry, Snape says, “Look at me. You have your mother’s eyes,” all that good stuff that’s in the book. And then right when he’s about to die, there’s that last moment of look, and Snape – he’s dry. He’s not crying at all, but there will be a tear. The cue card at the bottom says, “A tear begins to form from Snape’s eye.” [laughs]

Andrew: And the entire audience laughed because it was just so funny, the perfect – the timing of it. And it kind of broke the emotion in the theater because everybody was laughing and here, Snape was dying, but just reading that text made it so funny.

Eric: So yeah, there was not a tear, but we are assured – unless they’re going to keep that caption there, turn Harry Potter 8 into a comedy, then yes, I believe there will be a tear in the final Snape scene.

Matt: I’m glad.

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: All right. Now, do we see Kreacher in…

Andrew: No.

Micah: Okay.

[Matt laughs]

Andrew: Grawp, no. Centaurs, no.

Eric: Actually, wait. Grawp, I think so.

Andrew: I lied about Grawp.

Eric: I think… [laughs]

Andrew: There are – well, wait, nobody is identified as Grawp, but there are giants that we see.

Eric: There are giants. A lot of giants look uglier, a lot uglier, than Grawp, but I think I saw an overpass of Grawp coming down the hill to fight in the battle. But…

Andrew: But no one’s identified.

Eric: Yeah, no.

Matt: But the giants are on the Death Eaters’ side.

Eric: Yeah, yeah, and they’re facing – that’s why it’s so massive to see the students and Hogwarts battling these giants, because it takes quite a few of them. But at the end of it all, there are giant, giant carcasses over the bridge and stuff, sprawled out across the grounds of Hogwarts. It’s really interesting.

Andrew: And speaking of creatures, there are no centaurs and no Buckbeak.

Eric: And no house-elves.

Andrew: And no house-elves, yeah, that’s another thing.

Matt: So, what is there?

Eric: Why don’t we just rip your heart out in five sentences there?

Andrew: There’s people, who are much cheaper than creatures to create.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: There are people.

Micah: All right.

Eric: Slave labor.

Micah: No need to sugar coat it, Andrew.

Eric: Wow.

Micah: Just tell it like it is. And then two more questions from me, do you actually see Remus and Tonks get killed? We don’t see it, obviously, in the book, but…

[Eric laughs]

Micah: …the reason why I ask, though, is because Natalia Tena had mentioned at the press conference that she had died on a cold night. So, maybe they actually did shoot the death scene, but I guess they don’t actually show it in the movie.

Eric: That’s interesting.

Andrew: You do get a shot of Remus and Tonks.

Eric: They – well…

Andrew: But they’re dead.

Eric: …you get two. No, one when they’re alive. They’re actually – during the fortification of Hogwarts, Lupin and Tonks are up sort of on one of the towers together, and they – right before it all goes down, hits the fan, whatever, they do look at one another and they kind of sort of outstretch their hands to hold hands during the fighting. And then obviously, it’s a different scene, but Harry – when Harry – right after Voldemort grants the pardon, grants the hour to collect your dead, meet me in the forest or else…

Andrew: That’s when you see them.

Eric: …that’s when Harry goes to the Great Hall, sees not only that Fred is dead, which happens off-screen, but that Remus and Tonks are dead, and they’re also – they’re laying on body bags or the equivalent. It’s like…

Andrew: Body carriers.

Eric: Body carriers, blankets, that sort of thing. But their hands are kind of outstretched and kind of touching as well. So, it’s that same sentiment where Remus and Tonks were lovers, they’re dead, but Harry can’t bear the idea that all these people died for him.

Andrew: Yeah, you see – you get the point that it bothers them.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: Or him.

Eric: Him.

Andrew: It bothers him…

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: …that these people died for him.

Eric: They – it doesn’t bother them very much, anything at all.

Matt: I can’t believe we don’t see Fred dying.

Eric: Yeah, you see – it’s quick, too. You see Fred and George on the roof somewhere. They’re literally hanging on a roof, and George says, “You ready, Fred?” and Fred says, “Yup, born ready,” or something like that, and that’s their sort of engagement to be in the battle. But the death scene, where they’re all – all the Weasleys are crowded over Fred…

Andrew: Yeah, that’s sad.

Eric: That is very sad, and Ron is just – Ron is making the sounds of true – what’s the word? Heartbreak, love, heart being shattered sort of thing for a lost family member. So, that’s really emotional.

Micah: All right.

Andrew: Any other questions, Micah?

Micah: Yeah, my final question was, you talked about the bank scene at the beginning of the last show. How do they know the cup is there? How do they know a Horcrux is in the vault? Do they ever explain that?

Eric: Oh yeah, that’s a good question. I think it’s assumed because Bellatrix was – and Harry says it out loud that…

Andrew: Yeah, yeah, that’s right.

Eric: They assume because Bellatrix was freaking out about them being in her vault, that there must have been something of Voldemort’s in there, or something special.

Andrew: Yeah, yeah, that’s what – yeah, I remember Harry saying that.

Eric: And I think they even mention the diary, that he gave the diary to Lucius, so why wouldn’t he give something to Bellatrix, that sort of thing. So, it’s almost because of her overreaction in the previous film that they’re able to guess. But once they go in – and this is sort of a difference from the book, the idea that Harry is a Horcrux is, I would say, very hinted at the whole film, because he has a connection to the Horcruxes where he can hear the Parseltongue and almost use – he almost has a spidey sense that allows him to – so they get in the vault and it’s a huge vault, tons of stuff in there, but Harry is able to kind of concentrate and walk around a little bit. And it’s the same way he finds the tiara in the Room of Requirement. He hears the whispers from the Horcrux…

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: …and is able to locate it. So, that’s…

Andrew: It’s what we’ve heard in the films before.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: That’s how you…

Matt: I think that’s smart. I think that really pushes the film along.

Eric: It does. It does. But almost surprisingly so to where – the point where I was just trying to say something and I was like, “Oh wait, the idea that he’s a Horcrux is actually a long drawn out thing in the film, much like Barty Crouch, Jr. showing up at the beginning of Movie 4 in the Riddle House.” It’s very – from the beginning on, you have these hints that allows for the audience – any audience, not just fans, to understand things, or to be open to some ideas. So, there is that.

Muggle Mail: Repairing Harry’s Phoenix-Feather Wand

Andrew: All right. Now, in response to Episode 224, we got a lot of e-mails from people who had more questions about Part 2 and we’re going to answer those now. Robby C, 16, of New Jersey wrote:

“Hi MuggleCast! Just wondering if in the advanced screening of ‘Part 2’ if there is a scene like in the book where, after Harry obtains the Elder Wand, he then repairs his own wand that was broken in ‘Part 1’. I feel that that was an important part of the book that shouldn’t have been missed, but I didn’t hear or read anything about that occurring! Thanks! Robby.”

Eric, the answer is… [pauses]

Eric: No. Negative. Negativo. And “No” in about five other languages is also “No,” which is – I’m sure it’s more than five. But no, actually Harry’s wand – we should give it more of an answer than that, I’ll be short. Harry’s wand is not shown in this film, his original wand, as far as I can recall. It’s not like he doesn’t still carry it around, but he doesn’t pull it out, and he’s not sentimental to it. There is a really important moment at the very, very end of the film, right before the last scene, right before the last moment, when Harry discovers that he is of course the current owner of the Elder Wand, and how he relates to that is very important and also sort of the conclusion to this question.

Andrew: Micah, can you read the next e-mail?

Muggle Mail: Snape’s Knowledge of the Trio’s Whereabouts

Micah: Next e-mail is from Whitney, 24 of Nashville, and she says:

“Hey guys! Love the show! I was just listening to the latest podcast with your ‘Part 2’ screening review. I know you probably can’t answer this on the podcast due to it being of a spoiler-ish nature…”

Yes, we can.

“…but hopefully you can e-mail me with your response. I was wondering how they got around the absence of Phineas Nigellus’s portrait being in the last movie as the way that Snape was able to know that Harry and Hermione were in the Forest of Dean, and thus having Harry follow his doe Patronus to retrieve the Sword of Gryffindor. This movie plot hole has really been bugging me since the last film, and I would love to find out if this was addressed in ‘Part 2’. Thanks guys! You’re the best!”

Eric: Wow.

Andrew: In “The Prince’s Tale,” we see a shot of the doe being sent – or the Patronus, right?

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: And that’s – I think that’s how that plot point gets wrapped up.

Eric: Yeah, I don’t even think it’s wrapped up. I think…

Andrew: Because we see it was Snape’s.

Eric: I think this reader – leave it to our wonderful listeners. I think Whitney actually did cover up a little bit of plot hole, because there’s no – without Nigellus’s portrait, you’re not really supposed to know – there’s no way for Snape to actually find the trio from afar. But…

Andrew: Right. But still, we know…

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: …by looking at “The Prince’s Tale” that that’s – it was Snape who did it.

Eric: Yeah…

Matt: Right.

Eric: …in “The Prince’s Tale” we realize that it is Snape, so you know that the silver doe is Snape’s and always “has been.” But the actual location, how he knew that they were in the Forest of Dean, is actually not answered, so that is a plot hole.

Matt: Right. But I mean – but it’s also a film. I mean, it’s not canon or anything.

Eric: Right. Well, it said so on sort of world.

Matt: Yeah. I mean, you get to find out who sent it and…

Eric: Some questions don’t…

Matt: …I think that’s the most important part.

Eric: …need answers, in a way.

Matt: Yeah.

Muggle Mail: Snape’s “Always” Line

Andrew: Chelsea, 18, of Torrance asks if the epic line, “After all this time, Severus?” “Always,” were said between Dumbledore and Snape. I – was that, Eric? I don’t…

Eric: Yeah, yeah, it absolutely was.

Andrew: Was that in “The Prince’s Tale”? Was that when I was in the bathroom?

Eric: Well, you came back by then, so you should have been paying attention.

Andrew: Oh.

Matt: You went to the bathroom?

[Micah laughs]

Andrew: Yeah, I did.

Eric: During “The Prince’s Tale,” but the thing is he said on the last episode, Matt, that he left and came back, and “The Prince’s Tale” scene was still going on.

Andrew: Yeah, it’s really long.

Eric: So, much unlike “Snape’s Worst Memory” in Movie 5, this is not a thirty-second BS, if you’ll pardon my…

Matt: Wow, you’re being…

Eric: …abbreviation.

Matt: …very generous with thirty seconds.

Eric: [laughs] Yeah.

Andrew: I also really kicked somebody’s popcorn on my way out and I still feel terrible about that.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: Like really knocked it. Like, I kicked it three feet because I wasn’t even looking. So, when my foot moved, it flew.

Eric: That’s okay. Nobody was eating among their tears at that point in the film.

Muggle Mail: David Heyman on Snape’s Flashbacks

Andrew: Eric, could you read the next e-mail from Rachel?

Eric: Yeah. Next e-mail comes from Rachel, 19, of Reno, Nevada, biggest little city in the world!

“I was recently disappointed with the latest interview from David Heyman about plot changes in ‘Part 2’ from Cinema Blend. Before reading this, I’ve always held Heyman highly for the fantastic work he has done to the ‘Potter’ series. However, throughout the interview, he made many errors about the series, said that Peter Pettigrew’s death in the book was ‘juvenile’ (I understand the desks coming to life part being juvenile but Wormtail strangling himself? Really?) and how if there was only one movie, they would have cut Snape’s flashbacks. I’m not sure if he read ‘DH’ clearly, but Snape’s flashback pretty much explains most of the series in a nutshell. If it weren’t for Snape, it would have been entitled ‘Neville Longbottom and the Deathly Hallows.’ Overall, I was less angered at what Heyman had to say…”

Andrew: I was angered.

Eric: I was angered. Excuse me, who’s reading this? [laughs]

“I was angered at what Heyman had to say in most of the interview and I was wondering if any of you felt the same way. Keep up the fantastic show.”

Andrew: Well, once you see how long the flashback is [laughs] like Eric just noted…

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: …you’ll see why they would have had to cut it. Heyman and all these creators have a lot of pressure to get this stuff right, so – the decisions they make, we never get the full context around, really. I’m sure Heyman could talk thirty minutes about why and how they could have cut “The Prince’s Tale” without it ruining the film, but that would have just been his opinion, so you just have to take what they say and just roll with it, baby.

[Eric laughs]

Muggle Mail: The Trio’s Goodbye Scene

Andrew: Next e-mail from Chiaki – I hope I’m pronouncing that right – 15, from New Zealand.

“Listening to the latest episode at the moment and you mentioned that after Harry finds out he has to die, he says goodbye to Ron and Hermione. Could you please tell me whether he specifically says that he’s going to die, or that he is just going after Voldemort, because it’s been bugging me for a while in the build-up to the movie?”

Matt: Yeah, how does he say goodbye, too?

Eric: Do you want to answer this?

Andrew: I can’t totally remember.

Eric: Okay.

Andrew: He doesn’t – oh, he says to Hermione, “I think I know what’s going on, and you’ve known it, too.”

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: Something like that.

Eric: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that you’ve known I was a Horcrux, basically. I think he even flat-out says, “I’m a Horcrux,” because Ron needs to understand it. But he says, “I think I’ve been knowing what’s going on, you’ve known it for a while, too.” Hermione has a tearful admission…

Andrew: Yeah, she starts to break down and she hugs him.

Eric: But it’s very clear that they know that Harry is going out there to die, which is sort of…

Matt: Okay.

Eric: …what makes it most emotional. So yeah, he’s not just going after Voldemort, he’s actually going in the forest to die.

Muggle Mail: The Good Side’s Reaction to Harry’s Death

Andrew: Matt, can you read the next e-mail from Katy?

Matt: Yeah, sure.

Andrew: Second paragraph.

Matt: Oh, okay. Our next e-mail comes from Katy, 20, from Dallas, Texas, and Katie writes:

“One of my favorite moments in the book was when Voldemort and the Death Eaters bring out Harry’s supposedly dead body to show the school. The image of the entire school thinking Harry is dead, his best friends mourning, and then that moment where McGonagall screams is one of the most moving scenes for me in the book. Is it in the film?”

Andrew: Yes!

Eric: Yes, and…

Andrew: But I don’t think – is McGonagall screaming?

Eric: No, she doesn’t scream.

Matt: I don’t know. I remember asking you this the other day, too, because that’s one of my favorite scenes in Book 7, is when McGonagall screams, “No!” when she sees Hagrid carrying Harry’s supposedly dead body in his arms.

Eric: I think – the interesting thing about this scene is that I think it’s going to be the best scene in Movie 8. It’s the victory speech. It’s not only the victory speech, but the opposition from Neville. Neville’s speech takes place here, too. Basically, they’ve just come from the forest, Voldemort and everybody leave – they enter sort of the courtyard of Hogwarts, Hagrid is carrying Harry’s lifeless body, and Voldemort actually gives a sort of victory speech about – “Now it’s all over, and you should join me.” Like, “now there’s nothing else, you’ve lost your hero.” He says something like, all wizards are welcome. All actual pureblood wizards or whatever, are welcome.

Andrew: And there’s one weird point here where he asks Draco to come over, and Lucius…

Eric: Well, he doesn’t. His parents do.

Andrew: Oh, okay.

Eric: Because – so he gives the ultimatum, “Join me. Walk over to this side of the courtyard,” basically, like they do in Hook, like with the Lost Boys joining Rufio. And the thing of it is, is nobody moves at first, and then Narcissa and Lucius call for Draco to come, and Draco kind of looks how Draco always looks, kind of unsure. But then he walks across it, and Voldemort actually hugs him!

Andrew: Yeah, that was the weird part for me.

Eric: That was weird, yeah.

Andrew: Voldemort kind of pulls Draco in, and it’s kind of awkward because…

Eric: He says, “Well done.” He says, “Well done, Draco,” and he’s so…

Andrew: And Voldemort’s pointing his wand at Draco, too.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: Like, it’s kind of eerie. I didn’t like it at all.

Eric: It’s weird seeing Voldemort hug…

Andrew: Touch someone. [laughs]

Eric: Touch someone, exactly. But – listen, when I saw this in the film, I said, okay, he’s just happy because he thinks he’s really won, that he’s actually almost more human now, he’s hugging people. But anyway…

Matt: Well, he’s doing that as to show like he’s not without compassion, like, “You can come. I will not do anything if you walk over.”

Eric: Look at this. You’re already defending the film, Matt. This is awesome.

Matt: Well, no! I mean, it makes sense.

Andrew: Right.

Matt: Like it’s all just one big show just to get other people to come and coax them in.

Eric: Yeah, you’re very right, I think. And so – then Neville, though. Neville walks forward and people are kind of like, [gasps] “Neville is going to join Voldemort.” But then Neville says, “I just wanted to -” yeah, yeah, it’s wonderful and Voldemort taunts Neville beforehand. It’s just amazing.

Muggle Mail: Scenes That Were and Weren’t Cut From Deathly Hallows – Part 2

Andrew: Final e-mail, Brad, 16, of Bay City, Michigan. He had a few points he wanted to have clarified.

“The scene with Professor Trelawney launching crystal balls at the Death Eaters.”

Is it in the movie?

Eric: No.

Matt: Nope.

Andrew: [continues]

“Harry meeting Neville and telling him to kill the snake.”

Matt: Yeah. In fact, I think Harry tells everybody to kill the snake. He’s recruiting people to go kill the snake because he’s got to go in the forest. He reiterates several times that that snake needs to die.

Matt: [laughs] The snake dies.

Andrew: [continues]

“Neville being tortured with the flaming Sorting Hat and pulling the Sword of Gryffindor out to kill Nagini.”

Eric: One of those two things happens.

Andrew: Yeah. I – yeah. And lastly:

“Professor McGonagall, Kingsley, and Slughorn dueling Voldemort.”


Matt: Awww!

Andrew: I don’t know if this is towards the end they’re talking about, or…

Eric: But Kingsley is in the film, and Kingsley and Mr. Weasley go around fortifying Hogwarts together which is awesome. And Slughorn is in this film a lot, just shown doing different things in the battle. And McGonagall, as we said, has many shining moments. So, it’s not like – even though you may not see those exact configuration of characters fighting Voldemort, what you do see is those characters, so it’s not like they cut those characters out which would be really disappointing.

Micah: What about Flitwick?

Eric: Flitwick, too. Yeah.

Micah: Yeah?

Eric: He actually barricades the front entrance.

Matt: Oh yeah, how is that? Because I know in the book, it’s almost like a…

Andrew: Listen to our last episode.

Matt: Why? I have you here with me.

Andrew: Because we talk about it there.

Matt: Fine, I’ll just ask you later.

[Eric laughs]

Show Close

Andrew: This has been another very full show. We hope we answered a lot of your questions about Part 2. If you’re itching to learn more – I think after this episode we’re going to [laughs] keep it down from now on. We’re turning a lot of people away from our show because they don’t want to be spoiled, either.

Eric: That’s true.

Andrew: A couple of things. Don’t forget to visit for all the information you need about the show. On the right there, you’re going to find several important links, including the link to LeakyCon 2011. It’s going to be May – or [laughs] July 13th to the 17th in Orlando, Florida. Use referral code “Muggle” when registering. Also you’ll find the link to our iTunes page where you can subscribe and review us. We have to do this reminder every once in a while. When we do put a new episode out, bring up your iTunes, click “Podcast” on the left, right-click “MuggleCast”, and hit “Update Podcast”. Or just hit the “Refresh” button after clicking “Podcast” on the left, and that way you will get the latest episode when we post a news or tweet about it.

Eric: Now, one of the – oh, Andrew, one of the things we did want to announce last week but Micah wasn’t with us is that Micah actually really liked How to Succeed in Business

Micah: Yeah.

Eric: …right, with Dan?

Micah: No, I know you guys talked about it a little bit.

Andrew: Micah just woke up.

[Eric laughs]

Micah: Yeah. No, sorry about that.

Eric: He doesn’t answer unless called upon.

Micah: Yeah. No, you guys did talk about it on the last show. I know Andrew said that I was laughing at certain parts. Andrew, it’s just because I’ve been in the business world longer, I got more of those jokes than you, I think.

Andrew: It’s relatable.

[Eric laughs]

Micah: That’s what it was. No, but it was a great show. I thought Dan did a great job singing, dancing. It was really – across the board, it was a good time so I’m sure – a lot of the cast that was here for all the press events the last few days went and got a chance to see him as well, so…

Eric: That’s really cool.

Micah: And they had nothing but good things to say. So, I recommend it if you are in town for the exhibition, go see How to Succeed.

Eric: Wow.

Andrew: And back over to, you can follow us on Twitter by going to, liking us on Facebook by going to, and also following our fan Tumblr,

Eric: Really, it’s the best thing ever. We’re throwing fans down the steps. It’s amazing. [laughs] It’s absolutely amazing.

Andrew: I don’t – okay.

Eric: So they tumble! [laughs] They tumble down the steps. Never mind.

Andrew: Oh right, our fan Tumblr where we push people down…

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: I didn’t get that.

Micah: I’m sure there are a lot of fans that would like to push us down the stairs, too.

Eric: Yeah.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: It’s mutual.

Andrew: Thanks everyone for listening! I’m Andrew Sims.

Eric: I’m Eric Scull.

Micah: I’m Micah Tannenbaum.

Matt: And I’m Matt Britton.

Andrew: We’ll see everyone next time for Episode 226. Buh-bye!

Matt: Bye.

Micah: Bye.

Eric: Bye.