Transcript for MuggleCast Episode #292, Ilvermore
Show Intro
[Show music plays]
Andrew Sims: This is MuggleCast, your Harry Potter and Fantastic Beasts podcast covering everything about J.K. Rowling’s Wizarding World. Welcome to MuggleCast Episode 292. Micah, Eric, and I are here this week, and we’re very pleased to welcome Selina back to the show! Hey, Selina.
Selina Wilken: Hi, guys. So glad to be here.
Andrew: We missed you! Oh, good!
Selina: Eurovision day! Very exciting.
Andrew: Selina, of course, a Harry Potter expert…
Selina: Of course.
Andrew: … writes some great Harry Potter pieces on Hypable, I have to say. But yeah, it’s good to have you back. It’s been a while. And this is our second episode of the month, something we haven’t done in a while, two episodes in a month.
Selina: Wow. [laughs]
Eric Scull: A momentous occasion. It feels like just yesterday we were here.
Andrew: I know, seriously. I was like, “Ugh, another MuggleCast already?”
[Eric and Selina laugh]
Selina: Already getting sick of it again.
Andrew: [laughs] Kidding. No, actually, I’ve kind of been rediscovering Harry Potter. I am rereading Sorcerer’s Stone right now.
Selina: Oh, nice!
Andrew: Yeah. Partly because on Patreon, we’re each reading a chapter and releasing it on Patreon, so I wanted to read all the chapters that…
Selina: Are you narrating it?
Andrew: Yeah, yeah. We’re like Jim Dale.
Selina: Oh my God! This is so exciting. I might have to subscribe.
[Andrew and Selina laugh]
Eric: We do the voices… it’s a lot of fun. It’s a lot of fun.
Andrew: It is fun, though. But yeah, so I’ve been rereading Sorcerer’s Stone, partly with the illustrated edition. And you really forget just how much is taken out of the movies, taken out for the movie, like the midnight duel, for example. I got to that chapter; I was like, “What is this? What is this scene?” [laughs] Forgot this happened.
Selina: Oh, I’m so glad you’re doing that. That’s exciting.
Andrew: Yeah, yeah. It’s a lot of fun. I feel all Harry Potter…
Selina: It’s like you don’t… you forget with the movies… even if you love the books first, the movies, because they’re visual, they just imprint on you stronger, so you forget how good the books really were.
Andrew: Yeah, you really do. You really, really do.
News
Andrew: Anyway, let’s move into present day here. We have an interesting story to begin with. The Ilvermorny Houses – this is the North American wizarding school – the Houses supposedly leaked.
Micah Tannenbaum: Andrew.
Andrew: Yeah?
Micah: Let’s be honest, okay? You hacked Pottermore.
[Andrew and Selina laugh]
Selina: I was totally thinking the same thing.
Andrew: No, I didn’t hack Pottermore, but actually what happened last weekend was I got an email from somebody alerting me to this, and I checked it out for myself and it was true. You could look at this particular page of the Pottermore source code and find these four alleged Houses. And I was like, “Should I write about this? Pottermore is going to be pissed at me.” [laughs] And I didn’t really want to upset them. Selina and I are going to the Cursed Child next month; we might be banned from entering or something.
Eric: Barred entry, yeah.
Selina: [laughs] It’s too late.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: But you did it anyway. I mean, that speaks clearly to your journalistic integrity.
Andrew: Right. Well, as they say, if you’re a journalist, usually you make enemies.
Micah: Well, in all fairness, though, you run a website, and I think it’s a little careless on the part of whoever was planning to release this information down the line, and it could have just easily been a mistake. But anytime you go and you view source on a website, you run the risk, right? I mean, and clearly they didn’t code out this information well enough.
Andrew: Yeah, and it also… what’s kind of cracking me up is that you can still look at the source code, and those names are still there! I would have thought they would have taken it out by now. But yeah, so there’s this little…
Micah: Did you get somebody fired? That’s the real question.
Andrew: I know. Somebody actually said that to me the other day; they were like, “Somebody’s going to get fired for this.” I was like, “I hope not.” I think that the fact that this code exists on Pottermore now means that they’re intending on launching this soon, and they just didn’t imagine that somebody was going to be digging into these files. If it weren’t for this one person who did it on Reddit, it probably…
Micah: What was the original intent behind them viewing the source code? Was it just…?
Eric: People do that, dude.
Andrew: Good question, yeah. People do that.
Eric: That’s a hobby.
Micah: No, but I mean, sometimes you might go on to see how something is coded. Is that what happened and they just saw this information there?
Andrew: I don’t know.
Micah: Or were they really kind of digging for information?
Eric: I think it was probably a little suspicious. People just kind of comb over popular websites and look for exploits. I really think that was more…
Andrew: So it’s in this Sorting file. It’s with the Hogwarts Sorting test, and it says, “Story title: Ilvermorny School of Witchcraft and Wizardry. Quiz title: The Ilvermorny Sorting Ceremony. Quiz intro text: Where do you belong? Horned Serpent, Wampus, Thunderbird, or Pukwudgie?” And that seems to suggest that those are the names of the Houses.
Selina: And we’re just never going to get that Patronus quiz, guys.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Selina: This is ridiculous.
Andrew: Yeah, is anybody searching the source code for a sign of a Patronus…?
Micah: Selina doesn’t give two you-know-whats about any of this stuff related to American schools and Houses, and just… she wants the damn Patronus test, Jo.
Selina: You are so right. [laughs]
Eric: They’ve moved on. They’ve moved on, Selina. We should too, okay?
[Andrew laughs]
Selina: They’ve moved on to America.
Andrew: “What is your American Patronus?”
Selina: It’s going to be called something like “Hullabaloo” or something.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Micah: But do you think that these Houses – you mentioned the names, Andrew – do they mirror what we know from Hogwarts just a little bit? I mean, looking through Horned Serpent… Thunderbird… Wampus is a cougar, kind of part of that lion family. And then, sorry, Hufflepuff, but Pukwudgie.
[Andrew laughs]
Selina: And there’s four of them as well, just like in Hogwarts. It seems way too similar, in my opinion.
Andrew: Well, yeah. I saw somebody in the Hypable comments was like, “I’m disappointed. There should have been six Houses.” I’m like, “What?” [laughs]
Selina: Well, why not?
Andrew: Well, why, though?
Selina: America is way bigger than Britain. They need more division, I think.
Andrew: Actually, I was kind of thinking of it from a merchandise perspective, like you need to create six different lines of House merchandise? That seems like a lot. I think four is a fine number.
Selina: That’s true.
Andrew: Anyway, so let’s go through these one by one. We don’t know of any actual info about these from J.K. Rowling’s world, but you can actually Google all four of these. They’re all mythological creatures. They all have entries on Wikipedia, conveniently, so this is where the description is from.
Micah: Well, I think the first two that we have here were mentioned during some of the pieces that were released on Pottermore specific to wands and the wandmakers here in the United States. Definitely Wampus.
Andrew: Yeah. So the Wampus, according to Wikipedia, is “a creature in American folklore, variously described as some kind of fearsome variation of a cougar.”
Micah: Gryffindor.
Andrew: Okay. Well, see… all right. Well, because I think Thunderbird is more like Gryffindor.
Selina: Isn’t that more like Ravenclaw? Because it says something about having knowledge and stuff, and obviously it’s a bird.
Eric: An eagle, yeah.
Andrew: So according to Wikipedia again, the Thunderbird is a “legendary creature in certain North American indigenous peoples’ history and culture. It is considered a supernatural bird of power and strength. It is especially important, and frequently depicted, in the art, songs, and oral histories of many Pacific Northwest Coast cultures, and is found in various forms among the peoples of the American Southwest, Great Lakes, and Great Plains.” I’m into this one.
Selina: Yeah, I like that one the best.
Andrew: Yeah. But remember, we’re just working with the Wikipedia entries here, so our interests may change. [laughs] The Pukwudgie is a “two-to-three-foot-tall being from the Wampanoag folklore. Pukwudgies’ features resemble those of a human, but with enlarged noses, fingers, and ears. Their skin is described as being a smooth gray, and at times has been known to glow.”
Selina: What a bummer getting that one.
[Andrew laughs]
Selina: It’s like that Pokémon that looks like a person, with the…
Eric: Mewtwo?
Selina: No, the one with the… Mr. Mime.
Eric: Oh, God. [laughs]
Selina: That one is super creepy!
Andrew: That is, yeah, like a giant human, kind of. And finally, the one that’ll probably get the most comparisons to Slytherin – just based on the title alone – the Horned Serpent “appears in the mythologies of many Native Americans. Details vary among tribes, with many of the stories associating the mystical figure with water, rain, lightning, and/or thunder. Horned Serpents were major components of the Southeastern Ceremonial Complex of North American prehistory.” So I noticed something in a couple of these: There were specific descriptions. So for example, the Horned Serpent has a reference to the southeast America, and the Thunderbird has references to the Pacific Northwest. I’m wondering if one of these each represents a section of North America.
Eric: Yeah, I mean, that would make sense.
Micah: Yep. But then are you saying based on geographical location, when you come to Ilvermorny, you’re Sorted into that House? So there’s no real decision-making that needs to happen?
Eric: No personality thing?
Andrew: Well, no, I’m more thinking that the founders each came from a certain section of North America.
Eric: Right.
Andrew: Because why would we be doing a Sorting test that…? The only question on the Sorting test would be, “Well, where do you live?”
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: “I’m in the Pacific Northwest.” “Okay, you’re a Thunderbird.”
Eric: I’ll take any quiz on Pottermore now. [laughs] There’s nothing to do there.
Andrew: I’m going to be really nervous to take this Ilvermorny House test.
Selina: Why?
Andrew: Because this is a big deal. Unlike with Hogwarts, where we had time to read the books and decide on our own which House we identify with, this… we may not have really any information going into the test, and we’re only going to learn about our House after we take the test.
Selina: I think that’s awesome, though, because you don’t get all those, like, “Oh, I want to be in Harry’s House,” you know? Or “Slytherin is the evil one.” This is much more… I don’t know. It’s exciting.
Micah: Right. But they do fall in line a bit with the Houses that we know from Hogwarts. That’s my only thing; I would have preferred a little bit more of a diversion from that. But as mentioned earlier, Wampus being part of one of the cores that are used for a specific wandmaker; I looked it up. It’s Johannes Jonker, who we’ve talked about on a previous episode when all the information was released on Pottermore, kind of getting us prepared for the initial trailer of Fantastic Beasts. And it’s just interesting that one of these… and I don’t know where Jonker was from, Andrew, but again, maybe to your point, he’s from a specific area of America, and that falls in line with your theory about these kind of representing the different quadrants of North America.
Eric: Well, and Ilvermorny having four Houses is in the grand tradition of old East Coast American private schools imitating British ones. I read this article, which I just kind of paraphrased there. Katharine Trendacosta on io9 wrote this, and it’s an interesting article. I want to just read what they said, because I think it’s said better than I could. She says,
“I hope to God these names aren’t real… First, having Ilvermorny have Houses named after magical creatures is such an obvious tie-in to the Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them movie that I’m kind of insulted. Second, two of those names are – regardless of their real, and fascinating, origins – hard to say out loud without a little bit of humor. It’s like giving Ilvermorny two Hufflepuffs. But, finally, the real issue is that Thunderbird, Horned Serpent, and Pukwudgie are all from various Native American myth, culture, and folklore… So it’s a school in the mold of British Hogwarts, but the House names are taken from Native Americans – this is practically the platonic ideal of cultural appropriation. Given that J.K. Rowling’s history of American wizardry already presented a shocking insensitivity to Native Americans and their culture, this is a terrible idea.”
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: So I think Jo is playing with fire, me personally, by continuing to… I mean, she really kind of biffed it with Ilvermorny the first go round, trying to appropriate this culture, or trying to use elements from it without causing…
Selina: Yeah, and it’s so sad because it’s obvious that what she’s trying to do is she’s trying to include… she’s trying to make Ilvermorny belong to Native America, but obviously it’s failing spectacularly. But I feel like that’s why she’s sort of pushing ahead; this is her vision of Ilvermorny as something that wasn’t in America long before the British and the Europeans arrived, but it’s just being… for whatever… for all of these different reasons, it’s coming across very, very badly. It’s tough. It’s a tough situation, I think.
Andrew: Yeah. I’m not sure how she could win in this situation, because you want the story to be rooted in the real America, the real history of North America.
Selina: And if she’d been like, “Oh yeah, it was founded at the time of Washington,” that wouldn’t be better. That would also be bad.
Andrew: Right, right. Yeah, so I agree with this io9 piece. The Fantastic Beasts thing, naming them after creatures… I don’t think that’s directly a tie-in with Fantastic Beasts.
Eric: That made me laugh a lot, because you wonder, right? You’re just like, “Well, there’s a clear…” The American wizarding school was not created before the Fantastic Beasts movie was in the works. That’s fact. So what does it mean?
Selina: Right.
Micah: Well, what would be the alternative? I mean, if you look at Hogwarts, the Houses are named after specific people, the people who founded the school, who were very impressive individuals, and now here you have the American school, whose Houses are seemingly named after fantastic beasts. And I don’t necessarily have a problem with that, because if you think about most institutions in America, universities that are around today, they all have some sort of…
Selina: A mascot or animal.
Micah: Yeah, and I get that’s more geared towards athletics; it’s not necessarily specific to the university…
Eric: Sometimes, yeah.
Micah: … but a lot of universities just have their mascots, aside from their sports teams. There are certain ones that are known and are represented by certain animals, certain creatures, and so I don’t necessarily have a major issue with how she went about naming these different Houses at Ilvermorny…
Andrew: I don’t either.
Micah: … but is it just that there’s not as much historical context in that, at least…? And we may learn more, right? I’m sure we will.
Eric: Presumably, yeah.
Micah: But there was so much based on these founders within the entire Harry Potter series, right? They all kind of played a pivotal role in one way or another – if not directly, indirectly – and so it seemed like there was a lot more thought that went into who created this school and naming the Houses after them, versus here, where it’s just, “Oh, well, you’re in House Wampus,” or “You’re in House Thunderbird.”
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: Sounds kind of cheesy.
Selina: It’s so true, and I think it also just shows part of what made Harry Potter so special, aside from it being, I think… for you guys, I don’t know if this is true, but being removed to Britain, which is almost a little bit exotic and mystical and old and having… that sort of made her be able to get away with some of the more silly names, like Hufflepuff and stuff. And I think this one is just… it’s almost dividing people, like in Divergent, like Dauntless and Amity and all that? That was almost a little bit less special just because it doesn’t have that oomph behind it, you know? And this is also the same. It’s like, it’s fine that it has Houses, okay, they have names, but it doesn’t have that sort of… you don’t get that feeling in your stomach. I don’t know. I think that’s fair to say.
Eric: That makes sense to me.
Andrew: I think we’ll start… people with reservations… I’m fine with these. They don’t really bother me, or they settle in my stomach fine. [laughs] But I think people would feel better about them once we see an official introduction with graphics, with backup info… just the way this was introduced was, of course, botched really badly.
Selina: [laughs] Yeah, thanks, Hypable.
Andrew: [laughs] It wasn’t just Hypable, by the way. I actually saw the Leaky Cauldron had already run it, and that’s what pushed me to do it, because if somebody else was doing it, then it was going to get around the Internet anyway. So don’t blame it all on me! But maybe in light of the backlash around J.K. Rowling’s Native American history that she wrote a couple months ago, maybe they were going to release this Ilvermorny quiz sooner, and they were like, “Oh shit, now we’d better redo the names, or make sure we get all this information right this time.” And maybe that’s why the code was already there, because they were kind of getting ready to unveil it, but now maybe J.K. Rowling pulled it back and decided to make sure she’s not going to anger anyone. Maybe.
Micah: It’s possible. So you think it was just they decided at one point that they were going to move ahead with this, and then, based on the response that they received for the Native American backstory, they put a hold on it and forgot to comment it out in the source code, and that’s why we’re here where we are?
Andrew: [laughs] Could be.
Micah: One thing I will say, though, is I’m almost curious what the reaction would have been if she decided to proceed in the creation of the wizarding world here in America without including the Native American community, because I think that it’s a tough line to walk in terms of how you represent a group of people, and what do you include? What do you not include? But it’s almost like, would you be getting the opposite argument also coming from the Native American community if she chose not to include them?
Selina: Oh, absolutely. I think, like you said, there is no real win for her in this situation, because excluding someone and appropriating their culture, square in between that is including, and finding that exact balance is almost impossible, I think.
Eric: I just… I think what we have expressed in previous MuggleCasts, too, is that we’re simply shocked it wasn’t more well done, that it wasn’t more careful, that it wasn’t more… because J.K. Rowling, to us, to our minds, has a lot of care for creating, and basically using things in her world that have previously existed. It just seemed forced, rushed, blunt, and painful, so far, pretty much with everything regarding Ilvermorny.
Andrew: Somebody pointed out – Steven in the Hypable comments, I saw – he wrote, “I found it kind of interesting that on Wikipedia it says a species of Horned Serpent was wiped out by the Thunderbird.” I could definitely see J.K. Rowling writing about that. And maybe the Horned Serpents and the Thunderbirds are at odds within Ilvermorny.
Selina: Oooh.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: I could see that.
Eric: But you ran a poll, didn’t you, Andrew?
Andrew: Yeah, so on the MuggleCast Twitter yesterday, we asked, just for fun: “We’re curious. Based on how little we know about the Ilvermorny Houses, which one would you join right now?”
Selina: The one that sounds the coolest. [laughs]
Andrew: Yeah, Thunderbird won by a large margin. Had 57% of the vote. The second most voted House was Pukwudgie, the Hufflepuff House. [laughs]
Eric: I love this. Well, people are calling it the Hufflepuff House. We had a tweet from S3VR, who’s on Twitter, who said, “I’m shocked so many people picked Puke Wedgie House – er, I mean, Pukwudgie.”
[Andrew laughs]
Selina: Aw, that’s just mean.
Eric: It’s very mean! We’re already getting shoved into lockers at Pukwudgie. But I am so glad that 19… that’s second place with 19% of the vote, out of 445 votes. That’s all the Hufflepuffs coming out and being like, “You know what? This is our fate; this is what we’re doing,” and I’m proud. It’s like Puff pride, but American version.
Selina: Puk pride.
Andrew: If you google image “Pukwudgie,” you can see… the creature looks like a troll, kind of hunched over, a long mane, carrying a bow and arrow in a couple of… well, in one piece of work. It doesn’t look very adorable. It’s not like a cute Hufflepuff adorable creature. It’s kind of scary. [laughs] So anything else to say on the Houses for now? I’m sure we’ll have more to say.
Micah: It looks like Kreacher.
Andrew: Yeah!
Selina: Oh, you’re right. It does.
Eric: Kreacher with lots of back hair, yeah.
Andrew: Kreacher origins.
Micah: How do you know Kreacher didn’t have back hair?
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Uh… good question. I suppose I don’t.
Andrew: Yeah, so to wrap up that poll, 19% said Pukwudgie, 13% said Wampus, and 11% said Horned Serpent. I hate to give Slytherin a bad rap, but I think people hear that Horned Serpent name and they’re like, “Slytherin! Nope, nope, nope, nope. Staying away from that one.”
Selina: Do you guys remember when Thunderbird was a brand of email? Did any of you guys have the Thunderbird email system?
Andrew: Yeah, didn’t…?
Eric: Huh. You know what? Now that you say that, Selina, it does sound familiar.
Andrew: Didn’t Mozilla Firefox have a spinoff called Thunder…? Yeah, Thunderbird Email.
Selina: Yeah, that might be it!
Andrew: That is it. It’s still online, too, the Thunderbird Email. It’s an email program. [laughs] Uh-oh, who’s going to have the copyright to that name?
[Selina laughs]
Eric: Yeah, who owns it?
Selina: That’s a problem.
Micah: Maybe that’s why it hasn’t been released yet.
Andrew: [laughs] They’re trying to get the copyright clearances? Actually, that’d be a good way to confirm it. We should look to see if Warner Bros. owns any of these names yet. Could they do that?
Selina: Well, they couldn’t own them if it’s part of legends. That would be a problem. That would be appropriation.
Eric: Right.
Andrew: But if nobody else has trademarked it, couldn’t they? As it refers to merchandise and stuff?
Eric: Yeah, maybe.
Selina: Oh, interesting.
Eric: I don’t know. I’m still… I’m going to hold off on buying my Horned Serpent letterman sweater.
Andrew: Okay, another theory: Maybe J.K. Rowling was ready to go with these Houses, and they got it together for the quiz, and then they said, “Hey, Warner Bros., just to let you know, we got these names. They’re called Wampus, Thunderbird, Pukwudgie, Horned Serpent.” And WB was like, “Whoa, whoa, what? You’ve got to make up new names so we can sell merchandise with this stuff!” [laughs]
Eric: Yeah, or maybe somebody with some sense in the world was just like, “No, those names are terrible. Go back to the drawing board.”
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: But I’m hopeful… look, as a big, self-proclaimed Harry Potter fan, I just… I want to love it, and I want to believe in it, and I just want to know more about it, and I don’t want it… I want it to offend as few people as possible. I don’t want to offend anybody, and that’s my ideal. That’s my hope for humanity in Harry Potter moving forward.
Andrew: I don’t like this argument, though, that the names are silly, because everything in Harry Potter has a silly name. We’re just so used to “Hogwarts,” and just all these other… has there been a single new term related to Fantastic Beast that we have yet to actually like? Ilvermorny. No-Maj. Both of those were like, “Eugh, what?”
Eric: Well, those are terrible, okay?
Andrew: [laughs] No, well, I bet in the few years you won’t think they’re terrible.
Eric: I will always think… I’m going on record: I will always think No-Maj is dumb and stupid and terrible.
[Andrew laughs]
Selina: I agree with that one, but I like Ilvermorny. I think that worked for me from day one. It sounds like a magical school to me. I don’t know.
Andrew: “MACUSA.” [laughs] I came around on that one pretty quick.
Eric: Oh, God. Mac USA. Yeah, this is just… no, no.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: I want to, but I can’t. Sorry, Jo.
Andrew: All right, so let’s move on to another news story now. Here’s a touching story we can all get behind. J.K. Rowling, of course, has a great presence on Twitter; she has for a year or two now. She saw a tweet from somebody last week, somebody named Kate, and Kate said to J.K. Rowling, “I want to get Expecto Patronum tattooed, and it’d mean the world if it was in your handwriting. Here’s why.” And she attached a photo of a note on her iPhone in which she explains that she’s been the victim of bullying, she’s attempted suicide, and she cuts herself, so she wanted to put the Expecto Patronum tattoo handwritten by J.K. Rowling on the place on her arm where she cuts herself. J.K. Rowling saw this tweet, she responded, she wrote out Expecto Patronum, then she took a picture of it and sent it back to her. And it was really fantastic just seeing J.K. Rowling do this, and just the thought of this person who cuts herself putting this tattoo on the place where she does it, knowing that J.K. Rowling actually hand-wrote this tattoo for her. And J.K. Rowling also added, “I love that you’re working to heal and protect yourself. You deserve this. I hope it helps.”
Selina: Aw, it’s amazing. She does this every once in a while for people; I remember a story we wrote up last year, I think, about another person she sort of reached out to directly. That’s amazing.
Andrew: Yeah. Interestingly, a website called MomentaryInk.com – I guess they asked Kate for permission – they created a temporary tattoo version of this Expecto Patronum tattoo, handwritten by Jo. So they took it and kind of optimized it so it could be used as a temporary tattoo. They’re selling it on MomentaryInk.com, and at first I thought, “Oh, that’s really awful, taking advantage of…”
Eric: Right.
Andrew: But they told me that all profits from the sales of the tattoo are going to go to To Write Love on Her Arms, which is a nonprofit organization that supports those struggling with depression, addiction, self-injury, and suicide.
Eric: You know, I see that, but on the actual Momentary Ink website, it does not say that on the…
Andrew: It doesn’t name them specifically, no, but the website wrote to me and specifically named them.
Eric: It’s just really shady if you don’t say it on the page itself. But I think it’s a nice idea. I mean, I think this is just… this is a really heartwarming story of your favorite author being there for you in a time of great need. I mean, I won’t be buying this temporary tattoo. I don’t need it tattooed on myself; I already have a Harry Potter tattoo. But for this person, it meant everything, and that’s really special.
Andrew: Yeah. One of our patrons who saw this in our Google Doc, Irvin K., he said, “The Expecto Patronum story got me thinking about what Harry Potter quotes would make really good tattoos. I know ‘Always’ is a really popular choice in the fandom. If you had to tattoo words from HP on yourself, what would they be?”
Selina: “Pukwudgie.”
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Andrew: “Pukwudgie 4 life.”
Eric: Selina, definitely Pukwudgie. I saw that coming a mile away.
Andrew: Yeah, “Always” is a good one. I don’t know if…
Selina: Maybe “Gryffindor,” which sounds real stupid, clichéd, but I always really appreciated Gryffindor. I don’t know.
Eric: There’s of course… I think probably not as popular as “Always,” but “I solemnly swear I’m up to no good.” That’s got to be a big one, maybe with the footprints.
Micah: Yeah, I like that one.
Selina: I’d say “Hogwarts will always welcome you home,” if it wasn’t a little bit long. [laughs] Across your back.
Eric: Personally, on my back, I have “It’s not Hogwarts without you, Hagrid,” and it’s big, giant Hagrid hugging Harry.
[Micah and Selina laugh]
Andrew: You know what? I wouldn’t put that past you.
Eric: From Chamber of Secrets. Thanks, guys. Thank you very much.
Micah: Well, Eric, along those lines – the first thing that you said, not the second – “Mischief Managed.”
Andrew: Yes.
Eric: Yeah, oh, “Mischief Managed.” That’s probably huge. But which ones would we…? This is Irvin’s question: If you had to tattoo words from Harry Potter, what would they be? Selina has already… “Pukwudgie.” You sticking with that, girl?
Selina: Absolutely.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: I admire your conviction.
Selina: Maybe a follow-up… something along the lines of “It’s not good to dwell on dreams,” because I feel like I need reminding of that quite a lot. [laughs]
Andrew: Yeah, yeah. I think it has to be something that you can always relate to for the rest of your life, because a tattoo is forever. So I think…
Selina: “Don’t let the Muggles get you down.” I like that one.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Andrew: Actually, I think “Muggle” could be a good one. Or “No-Maj.”
[Eric and Selina laugh]
Andrew: This may be cheating because it’s not a word, but I know a couple of friends who got the stars on each page of the book tattooed on their ankle. You know the stars…? In the American editions, there’s stars next to the page numbers on every page. I love that because it’s subtle and instantly recognizable to anybody who’s read the Harry Potter books, because you saw those stars throughout all seven books. So I would be interested in that.
Eric: Maybe if you’re twins, you could get “I know we’re called Gred and Forge,” maybe.
Selina: Oh, but that will be so sad now.
Eric: Oh, yeah. Right. [laughs] J.K. Rowling ruined the opportunity there. No, yeah, I don’t know. But I think all the ones we talked about were pretty good.
Micah: I would say, too, the Mirror of Erised. “I show not your face but your heart’s desire.” I’ve seen and heard of people who have done that.
Eric: Yeah, or had as well… along the inscription actually had the Mirror of Erised. The Mirror of Erised is very cool. Even in the movie, I just always liked that mirror. I’ve always liked the way that looked, so I think it’d be cool to have that tattooed, potentially.
Andrew: Okay, so let’s move on to our next story, onto the Cursed Child. They’re slowly releasing little previews of what to expect in the Cursed Child. They released a photo of some of the “early” sketches for the new Hogwarts robes. They’re designed by Katrina Lindsay, and there’s some interesting things to note in… basically, they released a picture of – let’s see – eight cloaks, the front and back side, making for a total of 16 designs. Snitch Seeker, the Harry Potter website, they kind of zoomed in and optimized the image to figure out what some of the descriptions say, because they’re hard to make out. There’s the traditional cloak. There’s the Hogwarts first year cloak. There’s the Hogwarts emoji robe.
[Eric and Micah laugh]
Selina: What?
Andrew: Yeah, and if you look at it, you can see a bunch of buttons on the “emoji robe.” So I don’t know what that is, because we haven’t seen it in the books or movies. [laughs]
Eric: It’s the equivalent of the Girl Scouts’ merit badges and stuff. I don’t know.
Andrew: Yeah, but why are they calling it “emoji”? Because by definition, emoji are just those things on your phone.
Selina: Maybe Internet came to Hogwarts in the intervening years.
[Andrew and Selina laugh]
Andrew: Oh no!
Eric: That would be a cultural revolution.
Andrew: That would be quite the twist. I would be very interested in that. There’s also the Hogwarts ceremonial surcoat robe, the Hogwarts mid-school robe, the Hogwarts sixth form robe, and finally, the sixth form robe for prefects surcoat robe. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So a couple interesting takeaways from this: Your robe seems to evolve now as you continue with your career through Hogwarts. This isn’t something we saw in the books or movies – the robes basically stayed the same – which I think is cool.
Selina: Well, in the movies, they changed all the time. But yeah, no, you’re right. You’re right. I think it’s… someone brought up on Hypable that it sucks because now you have to buy new robes every year. That’s super expensive.
Andrew: Oh, yeah.
Selina: But I guess for the stage, it makes sense. It’s a visual thing.
Eric: To differentiate.
Andrew: That’s what I’m thinking. Yeah, it’ll be easier when you’re watching to tell the difference. And I feel like with a play, you need more to look at, so if you’re able to look around the stage and appreciate all the different robe designs, I think that’ll keep your mind busy while you’re also watching the play play out.
Eric: That’s a good point.
Andrew: They get shorter, it seems.
Eric: They do get shorter, actually. [laughs] You know what it is? Maybe they’re the same robes, but the people are getting taller.
Andrew: Oh.
Eric: Because sixth form is the last two years.
Andrew: Well, yeah. Or maybe they’re just cutting them, cutting them shorter. [laughs] Each year you go into a store.
Eric: I don’t know. I’d love to see the component female designs and how they change, obviously, because the male designs, which are here, utilize pants, and my legs do not look that good. I’m looking at the sixth form that are really short. There’s almost no… I don’t even know if that person’s wearing underwear. It’s just this overcoat, overcloak thing. So I don’t know. I’d be interested in seeing… this will be really cool to see on stage, like you guys are saying.
Selina: Are you guys going? Sorry.
Eric: No.
Andrew: Yeah, you guys gotta buy tickets. Why don’t you…?
Eric: I know, I know.
Andrew: Yeah, get on that.
Micah: When it comes to Broadway, I’ll go.
Eric: Yeah, I’m waiting for the inevitable US tour.
Andrew: All right.
Eric: Then Micah and I will go. We’ll be first row.
Selina: Yeah, Jo said they’re working on bringing it around the world, so it’ll be good.
Andrew: DumbleDip, who is listening to our Patreon livestream right now, they say, “I really hope ’emoji’ is just a code name or placeholder. They couldn’t call it something like that, could they?” Yeah, so I guess it could be a placeholder until they figure out what to actually call all those badges. [laughs] But what I think is also interesting about these robes is that, remember, the Cursed Child is set in present-ish day, and fashion evolves naturally in the real world, so we’re seeing fashion evolve at Hogwarts, which I think is cool.
Eric: You know, this is… [laughs] I was going to make a terrible joke here, something about having a gay headmaster.
[Andrew and Selina laugh]
Eric: But it doesn’t work. It doesn’t work. The joke doesn’t work.
Andrew: Well, especially because Dumbledore is dead.
Selina: He’s dead.
Andrew: So how dare you?
Selina: Kill your gays much? [laughs]
Eric: Sorry, sorry. But no, I think that it’s very interesting. It’ll be interesting to see these.
Andrew: Uh-oh, DumbleDip also says, “When Cursed Child comes to the US, Darren Criss should play Harry.” Oh, geez.
[Selina laughs]
Eric: I agree.
Selina: I agree, actually.
Andrew: I actually don’t agree.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Andrew: That’s too meta or something. Okay, well, anything else to say about these?
Selina: No.
Andrew: Are they going to be selling these cloaks? Because…
Eric: That would be interesting.
Andrew: Eric, would you buy one of these? You still have a robe.
Eric: I do have my… I’m proud to have my Gryffindor robe. I’d be interested. Something like this has never really been attempted costume-wise before by Harry Potter; they were kind of always allowed to have… and extras, too; all the robes are the same, versus this is much more grand, a closer look at not just fashion, but in general, the identity of students and how much variation you can get. When you only have to make… what is the cast, 50? Of Cursed Child? So when you only have to make, probably, 20 of those are student-type costumes, you have a lot more opportunities for variation and stuff. So yeah, but I also don’t think watching the play, I’ll be like, “Oh, I want the emoji one,” or “I want the sixth form, but with overcloak.” It’ll be weird. I can’t see them, actually, to go back and want to just… I can’t see them selling these.
Andrew: The emoji thing reminds me of pin collectors at Disney theme parks, these people who buy all these pins, and then they trade with each other. They all have different attraction names or different character names on them. And then when you go into… I was thinking about this when I visited the Wizarding World here in Los Angeles. They have a whole pin display; you could buy a ton of different Harry Potter pins, like one for the Triwizard Tournament, or the different House prefects, and just all these other random things. So I guess it could be something like that, where they have badges related to everything they do at Hogwarts. Maybe that was something new with the next headmaster or something.
Eric: I wonder.
Andrew: So one other news story to talk about here. Earlier this month, we spoke about the Battle of Hogwarts anniversary, and now it has passed, and J.K. Rowling lived up to her promise.
Eric: You were right!
Andrew: Yep. [laughs] She decided to apologize for another death. This year was Remus Lupin, and she tweeted, “In the interests of total honesty, I’d also like to confess that I didn’t decide to kill Lupin until I wrote Order of the Phoenix. Arthur lived, so Lupin had to die. I’m sorry. I didn’t enjoy doing it. The only time my editor ever saw me cry was over the fate of Teddy. *cry emoji*” A lot of people kind of predicted Lupin…
Selina: Cry me a river. She killed him.
[Everyone laughs]
Micah: Thanks, Selina, because my point last episode was that – and it may have been during one of our bonus segments for Patreon – but I don’t think you should apologize for killing characters. I understand why she’s doing it, and she did it last year with Fred…
Andrew: Do you?
Micah: … but I don’t think you have to do that. It was part of how the story played itself out, and I just don’t think it’s necessary.
Andrew: But it’s a symbolic thing. She doesn’t actually, I don’t think… I don’t know if she regrets doing it, exactly, by the definition of apologize. I think she’s just… she’s doing it to offer a little solace, I guess. [laughs]
Micah: Yeah, but at the same time, she gave you a reason as to why Lupin died beyond just the unintended consequences of war creating orphans, in the case of Teddy. She basically put all the blame at the feet of Arthur Weasley and said it’s his fault.
[Selina laughs]
Andrew: Well, it is.
Eric: And I don’t like this. I don’t buy that at all. Arthur lived, so Lupin had to die? What exactly…? Because somebody close to Harry needs to…?
Selina: Well, hasn’t she said this for…? Didn’t we already know this? I feel like this was not new information.
Eric: I knew about the orphan; she wanted an orphan to bookend the series. I get that. That makes more sense to me.
Micah: I did know about Arthur, though. I mean, she’s talked about Order of the Phoenix, and how she went back and forth as to whether or not she was going to kill Arthur, and she didn’t feel like, at that moment in time – especially with Sirius dying at the end of the book – that she could do that.
Eric: Right. He got the reprieve. That was the word they used.
Micah: Right. I didn’t know about Lupin, though. I didn’t know this tie-in.
Andrew: I think that’s the thing that’s new, that Arthur Weasley’s life…
Selina: Pretty sure we knew. I don’t know. I feel like we knew.
Andrew: Was Lupin directly? Affected Lupin directly?
Selina: Yeah, Arthur didn’t die, so she had to kill another father figure, and that became Lupin. I feel like she said this.
Eric: But that was two books later during the final battle. She almost could have killed Arthur in Book 7. They’re two different books… they’re two books apart, too. It’s like, “Oh, if you don’t kill Arthur in Book 5, just kill him in Book 7.”
[Andrew and Selina laugh]
Eric: I don’t get Lupin. Lupin created an orphan. That makes more literary sense to me, but I’m unschooled.
Andrew: Could it be because Arthur Weasley wasn’t really so prominent in Deathly Hallows, whereas he was in Order of the Phoenix?
Eric: Lupin had his moments. Yeah, I don’t know.
Selina: Yeah, and also she killed Fred, so that would have been too much, I think.
Andrew: Oh, too much Weasley?
Micah: There’s so many of them.
Selina: [laughs] But no, I might be wrong. I might be wrong that we knew. I just feel like she said it on an interview or something already. But I think it makes sense, and I think we argued on Hypable that Lupin was the better option, just because it was more parallel to Harry to leave Teddy. And Lupin was so sad, and he missed the Marauders, and he just was not… if you remember Book 7, he was miserable! And when Tonks was pregnant, he was miserable. He did not want to be in that situation.
Eric: Yeah, he was. Well, that’s a really interesting arc for him, to have that character sort of regret his choices and that kind of thing. But I don’t know. It’s interesting, because I guess essentially that means that not all four Marauders were meant to die by the end of the series, that Lupin would have lived had she killed Arthur, which is just kind of an interesting way of…
Micah: It should just be presented as more of a “In Memoriam,” recognizing one character per year that has been killed, as opposed to apologizing. I don’t think apologizing is the right word.
Andrew: So I think what you’re asking – and I agree with this – is that instead of saying sorry, she should just offer a little context for why she killed each person.
Micah: Or just saying, “This year we recognize…”
Andrew: Pay our respects.
Micah: “… pay our respects to this character.”
Andrew and Eric: Yeah.
Eric: At least she said, “I’m sorry; I didn’t enjoy doing it.” So that’s nice. I’ll take it.
Micah: I’m sure that was the case with Dobby, with Dumbledore, with a lot of the other characters, too.
Eric: Yeah, yeah. But they have a chance to die heroes’ journey. I mean, I remember speculating on MuggleCast before Book 7 came out about how… is it likely that Ron, Harry, and Hermione will live through the war altogether? Because they are the closest to the frontlines of the war that you can possibly get. I mean, I think we questioned whether Ron or Hermione would die. And I think Jo has said recently or something Hagrid was never in the equation to die. I think she said that before, because he was the one that, “Oh, everybody…” Every book, we would speculate. Ever since Sirius died, we were like, “Who will die this one?” And Hagrid was always the favorite for the fans to… everybody thought he was always going to get it. She said recently he was never on the table, I think. So it’s weird. It’s kind of interesting how all of this works and works out.
Andrew: His death would have been tragic in the same way as Hedwig, in that Hagrid was one of the first magical beings – arguably the first magical person – that Harry met. So that would have been really sad, like, “Oh, he helped me get to Hogwarts, he helped me get all my stuff at Diagon Alley, and now he’s gone. He bought me Hedwig, and now they’re both dead.”
Eric: But you take Hagrid’s death over Lupin’s if you could choose?
Selina: Yes. Hell, yes.
Eric: Yeah?
Andrew: Really?!
Selina: Well, no, actually. I like that all four Marauders died.
[Andrew laughs]
Selina: This is totally confession time – Andrew is going to hate me – but I never liked Hagrid. [laughs]
Andrew: [gasps] Why?
Selina: I know he’s your favorite. I don’t know. I found him annoying. [laughs]
Micah: Wow.
Andrew: I don’t know if he’s my favorite. I think he’s a great character.
Selina: I know. I’m so sorry, everyone. [laughs]
Andrew: Okay. Yeah, that’s pretty shocking.
Eric: I think during this episode, we’ve all each managed to offend a large group of people.
Selina: I think so too.
[Andrew laughs]
Cursed Child predictions
Andrew: Okay, well, let’s get into kind of a game we have here this week. Since the Cursed Child is upon us – preview performances start in less than a month now – we thought we should get down some predictions about the Cursed Child. So today, each of us is going to make two predictions, and we’ll do two more on our next episode right before the preview performances begin. So without further ado, here are my two predictions to begin. Number one: We will hear in passing that a somewhat significant character died a couple of years earlier. Okay? So we’re going to learn about a big death.
Selina: I think that’s true.
Andrew: Maybe it’ll be Hagrid.
Selina: Yes. [laughs] No, I’m kidding.
Micah: Selina wins.
Selina: I don’t want him to die.
Andrew: What if we’re watching the play, Selina, and we find out that Hagrid died, and I just hear you yelp from another area of the theater, “Finally! Yeah!”
Selina: I’m just like, “Woooo!” [laughs] No, I don’t want him to die.
Andrew: I don’t know. You sounded pretty…
Selina: I just remember when the books were going on, we were like, “Is Ron going to die? Is Ginny going to die? Is Lupin going to die?” And I was like, “Oh, but what if it was just Hagrid? That would be so much easier.”
Andrew: [laughs] And prediction number two: Draco Malfoy’s kid, Scorpius, will be as much of a D as Draco Malfoy was.
[Eric laughs]
Micah: You can’t say that word?
Andrew: Well, I don’t know. Should we say dick? He’s going to be a dick.
Micah: I mean, I dropped the F-bomb on the last show.
Andrew: Oh, you did! We didn’t even get any complaints about that. [laughs]
Micah: That’s amazing. Our audience has grown up.
Andrew: Yes. Thank you, audience. [laughs]
Micah: I think that’s definitely possible.
Andrew: Yeah. I think this is going to be very parallel to Sorcerer’s Stone, or just the earlier books in general. So yeah, those are my two predictions. Micah, what are yours?
Micah: So my predictions, number one: I think that the Elder Wand will be removed from Dumbledore’s grave.
Andrew: Oooh.
Micah: Or that another one of the Hallows that is not the Invisibility Cloak will be used in some capacity.
Eric: Very interesting. I like the idea of… I would even like to see the cloak again, but like a relic of the books be featured here 20 years after the events.
Micah: And I think that at some point during the run of the show, that a Harry Potter actor from the movies will portray their character on stage.
[Andrew and Selina laugh]
Eric: I like this.
Andrew: Eh…
Eric: It’s such a Broadway thing to do…
Selina: It’s going to be Evanna Lynch.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Yeah, probably. For a week, or a short run, a brief run, you’ll have something like that happen. I agree. I like that prediction a lot.
Andrew: Okay, interesting. Eric, what are your predictions?
Eric: So my two predictions for the Cursed Child play – and this is unrelated to my discussion of the costumes earlier – but I suggested… before the show, we wrote these down. I think that the show will feature an openly gay character. I think for diversity, it’s important to, again, show a more realistic version of the world. So that’s my first prediction. My second prediction… and this comes from the fact that I question how much Hogwarts we’ll actually be getting in the play, since it’s also, to some extent, Harry’s story, and the adults that we know and are more familiar with. So my prediction was the Malfoy family, including Draco’s offspring, will not appear, and I just kind of see the conflict – rather than it being young Albus Severus and Scorpius Malfoy, like it was Harry and Draco – I think the conflict is more internal, and so we might not even see that the kid has a rival at Hogwarts the way that Harry did.
Andrew: Hmm. So we have conflicting predictions. Okay. [laughs] Interesting. Selina, what are yours?
Selina: Oh, well, I just changed mine because I got a better one.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Selina: But yeah, no, I think I’m sort of going to go in the other direction. No, not the new one that I had before. I think actually that quite a lot of it is going to take place at Hogwarts, and I actually think that’ll include Harry, Ron, and Hermione all returning to Hogwarts to solve this mystery of the Cursed Child.
Eric: Oooh.
Selina: And the second part of that prediction for me is that I don’t think the Cursed Child is going to be Albus Severus. I think it’s going to be someone else.
Andrew: So that artwork with Harry – or sorry, with a boy – in a golden Snitch, you don’t think that is Albus Severus?
Selina: I don’t think that’s Albus Severus, no. I mean, it probably is. I’m probably wrong. But I think it would be really interesting if it was someone else.
Andrew: Okay, yeah. Pottermore…
Selina: Because that would be like… I know you said it would probably be like Philosopher’s Stone, which is probably very accurate. But if this new character that’s going to be so central to the story is Albus, and if he’s cursed, that’s going to be too much like Harry being cursed, I think.
Andrew: He’s cursed in different ways, though.
Eric: Yeah, there was a synopsis. There was a synopsis that said, “Albus Severus can never get out from under Harry’s shadow.”
Selina: I know.
Eric: And “Harry himself is still mulling over the events of the final battle, etc.,” and that was the moment where I was like, “Okay, now it’s definitely Albus Severus who’s the Cursed Child. It’s not any bit more inventive.”
Selina: It probably is that he’s cursed by his father’s past or whatever, but I would like if it was another child, and Albus is sort of helping to solve whatever mystery there is about that Cursed Child. Maybe it’s a ghost, or if it’s a missing child. I don’t know, something like that. I don’t know. I’ve been reading… it’s because she’s doing Robert Galbraith now, so I’m expecting it to be some kind of mystery, murder mystery.
[Eric and Selina laugh]
Andrew: Yeah. I actually… I’m glad you bring up Harry, Ron, and Hermione returning to Hogwarts. I would like to go on record right now and say I hope they don’t, because this reminds me of when people graduate from high school and they keep coming back to the high school even after they graduated, and it’s just like, “Dude, move on already.”
Selina: Ohh. So Harry is like the golden boy of Hogwarts, and he has to return for the glory.
Andrew: Yeah, but I just remember being a high school student and seeing people who graduated come back on multiple occasions. I’m like, once or twice, okay, but some of them would be coming back really often, and I was just like, “Can you move on, please?” [laughs]
Eric: You know what’s funny, is I was voted most likely to do that in my graduating class.
Andrew: Really? And did you?
Eric: Yeah, in my graduating class, I was voted most likely to return to Muhlenberg High School. [laughs]
Andrew: But did you come back? Did you go back?
Eric: To my credit, once, ten years later. It was this year. I went back once, and it was very weird.
Andrew: Okay, yeah.
Eric: Everything was the same. It was very weird. But everybody thought that I would be the one to come back.
Andrew: Going back once or twice is okay.
Selina: Well, I think Ron would be like that in the story. I could see him sort of being… because he already was like that in the epilogue, wasn’t he? Like, “Oh yeah, I’m the Chosen One,” kind of.
Eric: It’s Hogwarts. This place trumps any place that you could ever…
Micah: Any high school.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Yeah, any high school.
Micah: It is true.
Eric: I will say, I don’t blame anyone in the universe for coming back to Hogwarts.
Andrew: I guess. I just don’t like the type of person that keeps coming back; that’s all. Okay, so we’ll each make a couple more predictions on our next episode in early June before preview performances start, because after that, the secrets are going to be out. So this is our last chance. We’ll look back on these and see how right or wrong we were. So these predictions are locked in now.
Eric: Fun! That was good.
Make the Connection
Andrew: Okay, so let’s move on now to Make the Connection.
Eric: It’s a fun segment. [laughs] Our fan favorite Make the Connection. These connections… Selina, do you remember how to play?
Selina: Yeah, but I feel like there was music last time, so maybe I don’t.
Eric: Ahh.
Andrew: Well, the production budget has been cut here on MuggleCast.
[Eric laughs]
Selina: I see.
Eric: Visit our Patreon to fix that.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: No, so there’s two… so that’s Make the Music Connection that you’re thinking of.
Selina: Oh.
Eric: Make the Connection actually came first, and it was originally Jamie would come up with just some random off the top of his head topic, and we would have to connect it to Harry Potter. So we sourced these over on Twitter, Twitter.com/MuggleCast, and got our top 13 responses. Won’t need to read them all, but my suggestion is that we each give each other something to make the connection to, so we just pick one and give it to somebody else.
Andrew and Selina: Okay.
Andrew: So let’s start with Selina.
Selina: Okay.
Andrew: Selina, make the connection between Harry Potter and waterskiing down the Amazon River. This was submitted by TARDISeeker.
Selina: Okay, well, obviously I feel like that’s going to be an Ilvermorny excursion.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Selina: The Thunderbirds are going to lead the charge on their water brooms. It’s going to be great. That’s the sport, actually, water brooming.
Andrew: [laughs] Oh, yeah, is Ilvermorniny going to have a…? Well, I guess it’ll be Quidditch, but I wonder if they’ll have a unique sport.
Selina: Well, maybe it’ll be something else. They’ll call it something different, like Quadder.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: No-Quid.
Andrew: No-Quid, yeah.
Micah: Was it the last episode that we were talking about Quidditch and its evolution? Because I’m sure you saw, but there was an article that was written on these skydivers that actually played Quidditch…
Selina: Oh, that’s so cool.
Micah: … as they were making their way back down to Earth, and it’s really cool.
Eric: It’s unbelievable, yeah. Huh. So that’s cool. Micah, I want you to make the connection between Harry Potter and being stuck in an elevator with your ex, and neither of you are over each other yet…
[Andrew and Selina laugh]
Eric: … which is from MPKH on Twitter.
Micah: I would say just any scene that involved Ron and Lavender Brown.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Eric: It did get awkward at the end there.
Andrew: Selina, you pick one and give it to one of us.
Selina: Okay. So Eric, I want you to make a connection between Harry Potter and IKEA.
Eric: Oh no.
Selina: Because of the Swedish thing, get it?
[Andrew and Selina laugh]
Eric: I was going to give that to you, and then I was like, “Eh, better not.” Harry Potter and IKEA. This is little meta: Both are fun! [laughs] I love going to IKEA, just like I love reading Harry Potter, especially early Harry Potter.
[Andrew laughs]
Selina: That’s nice. And like Hogwarts, you turn a corner and you never know where you’re going to end up.
Eric: And furthermore… yes, that’s true. That was good. And also, good food!
Selina: Oh, yeah!
Eric: I go to IKEA specifically for the Swedish meatballs. I’ve been known to leave IKEA having just had their Swedish meatballs without any furniture on me.
[Andrew laughs]
Selina: My brother does the same thing.
Eric: Just like the food at Hogwarts.
Andrew: It’s really cheap.
Micah: Both have Vanishing Cabinets, right?
[Eric and Selina laugh]
Eric: It seems like we can all make a really good connection between Harry Potter and IKEA.
Andrew: I was going to say something about their instruction manuals, because people always complain about the IKEA manuals. I find them to be pretty easy, but something about instruction manuals and spells being hard to work out or something.
Eric: Yeah, yeah. And definitely the Daily Prophet, the way it’s designed to look with pictures and stuff.
Andrew: Confusing. [laughs]
Micah: That was from Rebecca E.
Eric: Thanks, Rebecca E.
Micah: So I guess now I have to give…
Andrew: Sure.
Micah: Andrew, have you gone yet?
Andrew: No, I haven’t.
Micah: All right. So I want you to make the connection between Harry Potter and the sensation you get when you have to sneeze really bad, but can’t. And that’s from Matty J.
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: Well, this has to be like when you’re trying to get a spell out of your wand, but… maybe you’re trying to conjure a Patronus, but you just can’t get it to go. You can really feel it build up inside of you, but for whatever reason, you just don’t have the strength in the moment to really complete the spell.
Eric: I like that a lot. The focus?
Andrew: “Expecto Pa-CHOO!”
Eric: [laughs] Should we do a couple more?
Andrew: Let’s do one more.
Eric: All right, this is for the table. Okay. Make the connection between Harry Potter and getting powdered sugar from fried Oreos all over yourself at the state fair.
[Andrew laughs]
Andrew and Selina: Honeydukes.
Eric: Honeydukes? Oh, that was too easy. That was from JulesTheOnly. Okay, okay. How about… okay, make the connection between Harry Potter and the happy poop emoji.
[Everyone laughs]
Selina: The emoji robes.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: There you go! Done! Completed!
Selina: Yes! [laughs]
Eric: Making the connection complete.
Micah: Take that, Sofia.
[Andrew and Selina laugh]
Eric: Yeah, Sofia on Twitter. There we go.
Andrew: Thanks, everybody, who contributed those ideas.
Listener Feedback
Andrew: Okay, we’re going to get serious for a moment, guys. This is from one of our patrons, Bradley, who’s actually listening in the livestream.
Micah: We weren’t serious before? We were just talking about happy poop emojis.
Andrew: Oh, true, true. That’s a very good subject.
Eric: Serious business.
Andrew: Bradley asks, “Since the Mirror of Erised shows the most deepest, most desperate desire of our hearts, what would Andrew, Selina, Eric, and Micah see?”
Micah: Each other.
Andrew: Oh, that’s beautiful.
Selina: Aww, that’s good.
Eric: I like that a lot.
Selina: I’d pick the same one. That’s my answer.
[Andrew and Micah laugh]
Eric: Yeah, for how little thought actually went into that answer.
Andrew: Nobody wants to get personal on the show. No, I think…
Selina: What? That was super personal.
Andrew: But a lie. [laughs] I think everybody just looks for happiness in life in general, and I think that would be something that… I don’t know what form that would take in the Mirror of Erised, though.
Selina: Well, I think… it’s funny; I’m going to get a little meta here, some cross promotion. I was listening to one of your latest Millennial shows, and you all said, oh, you would choose personal relationship happiness over professional happiness, and this is my official rebuttal, everyone, that I would definitely go the other way, 100%. My deepest desire would definitely be something to do with my professional goal of having a book published or landing a job that I really wanted, or something like that.
Andrew: Okay, so if you look in the Mirror of Erised, you see yourself giving a reading of your New York Times bestselling book.
Selina: Writing, or being so inspired. Yeah, or maybe just seeing myself writing, super inspired, and I just can’t… I don’t have writer’s block, and it just keeps coming. Something like that.
Eric: I like that a lot.
Micah: Do you think it changes, though? I mean, we’ve probably had this discussion before, but let’s say a 10-year-old version of ourselves looking into the mirror versus a 25/30-year-old version of ourselves, we’re going to obviously have different desires. So I think it was actually almost extremely mature of Harry to look into the mirror at his age and see his parents, and not necessarily be looking for something that was material in nature, which I think most kids his age would have seen.
Eric: Well, right, but it changes even for Harry. I mean, he is able to get the Stone at the end of the book because he wants to stop Voldemort. That’s his deepest desire. He doesn’t want self-grandeur. But yeah, so it does change, just as our desires change.
Selina: Before 2007, I bet it was holding the seventh Harry Potter book in our hand. Legitimately, that was our biggest desire.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Eric: Yeah, so I’m going to say mine is – and this is at the risk of being offensive again – I want a better… a Book 7 that I like a lot, that I like even more, that I completely…
[Andrew laughs]
Selina: Oooh.
Eric: I know, I know, I know.
Selina: This is worse than my Hagrid confession, guys.
[Andrew and Selina laugh]
Eric: I’m sorry. I want a better… I want a Book 7 that I personally like more. There are people out there who think it’s the best book, the best conclusion, and I respect that, I truly do, but I didn’t feel that way. So I see myself holding and reading the final… the one that did everything I wanted it to do.
Selina: Wow.
Andrew: I think I’m with you, Selina. I would like to see some sort of professional maybe… solace? [laughs] I don’t know. When I try to think of an answer to this question, I just picture myself on a beach house. I want to know I made tons of money, and now I’m on the beach, just living on the beach.
Selina: Yeah, yeah. Like you made it. You did it.
Andrew: Right, exactly.
Selina: Not like a material thing, but just that feeling of “Got it.”
Andrew: In my rocking chair with a glass of whiskey, yeah.
Eric: What kind of whiskey?
Andrew: I currently have a bottle of Maker’s Mark, so I guess that. [laughs]
Eric: I love Maker’s Mark. It’s a good choice.
Andrew: Yeah, it’s fine. All right, let’s move on now. We have a couple more listener feedback type things. This first one is from Zach. I thought he had a couple interesting thoughts on the Cursed Child, about we growing up with Harry, and now the Cursed Child may kind of be out of sync with that. He says,
“Hey, guys. I’ve been thinking about what we can expect with the Cursed Child. We know a little bit about the story, but we don’t know what sort of tone the play will have. The original series, while getting progressively darker as it went along, remained a children’s story with a certain amount of whimsy. Since the Cursed Child is a play (a medium that adults tend to enjoy more than children) and tells the story of Harry as an overworked Ministry employee, I imagine the story itself will be geared more towards adults. While that is fine as most of the fans of the series are now adults themselves, my concern is that the story will be geared towards adults of a certain age that can better relate to Harry with teenage kids, rather than the adults who actually grew up with the series and fall between the 25-33 age range.
Why does this matter? Because the fans who grew up with the series actually grew up with the series. They were in school when Harry was, they had their first crushes and kisses along with Harry, and the lessons learned in the series had the most profound effect on those who aged with Harry. I recall loving the Harry/Ginny romance subplot in Half-Blood Prince because at the time, I was going through my own bout of a teenage crush. Unfortunately, it didn’t have the happy ending that Harry had, but the fact Harry and Ginny got together in the common room mirrored my own desires. If I couldn’t get my girl, I could live through Harry. Now, roughly ten years after the series ended, most of us are in our mid to late 20s. Our lives are focused on new things, like starting a career and beginning to have serious relationships and getting married. We do not have kids in their teens, for the most part. We are not yet burnt out on our careers, but are excitedly still chasing our dream jobs. That’s why I always wanted the follow-up story, if it ever was written, to focus on the next phase in Harry’s life, not two phases after. I’m sure Cursed Child will be great, and I’ll probably read it a million times. But maybe this has something to do with my tempered excitement for the play. It won’t speak to my personal experiences like the original series did. Maybe in ten years, though, it will.”
Eric: This was really interesting.
Andrew: Yeah, I hadn’t thought about this.
Eric: So essentially, because the play is 19/20 odd years later, and it’s actually only been ten years, the idea is that the audience is older than we are, the target audience for the Cursed Child.
Andrew: Yeah, I can see what he’s saying. I’m kind of picturing myself watching or reading the story now and being like, “Oh, Harry really grew up, didn’t he?”
Eric: And he’s having trouble parenting, which we, most of us, do not yet… I didn’t even think about this. This came out of left field for me. This makes a lot of sense.
Andrew: I’m canceling my pre-order. I’m canceling my flight.
[Eric and Selina laugh]
Eric: Well, look, ultimately it’s a Harry Potter story, and Harry Potter is universal, for everybody at all times. I don’t think it’ll be too exclusive of any particular age group. After all, there are children in the cast, and there will be a portion that presumably takes place at Hogwarts, and I think that part of the story will… it’s much easier to see that as appealing to a younger generation. But yeah, I guess what we can relate to, and what the main theme might be, is sort of processing grief and that altogether. And kind of recovering from the war and all that kind of stuff is stuff that we can relate to as humanity, in general, over and over and over again, and it’s not too far from the themes of the Harry Potter series of books.
Andrew: Micah and Selina, how do you feel about this?
Micah: I think it’s really well thought through. I think that Zach did a good job of going through how he’s feeling about potentially seeing this. And I just… I’m not sure that we need to react in this way before we actually know how the story plays itself out, because I don’t think it’s going to be Harry frustrated with his job at the Ministry, he’s 50 pounds overweight, he comes home, he drinks every night, he yells at his wife and kids, his life is miserable… I just don’t get that sense. But I understand the point about sort of being in the next stage of life, versus where, necessarily, all of us may be, but we’re just one portion of the base of fan that’s out there, right? We’re the ones who grew up with it, so to speak, but there’s still a lot of other people out there that identified with the series that didn’t necessarily grow up with it.
Andrew: Yeah, I agree, but I think he is right. Zach is right that a large majority of Harry Potter fans are currently between the ages of 25 to 33.
Eric: Or it’s just that… I mean, as a matter of personal preference, if you can choose when the next Harry Potter story is going to be, you kind of want to see it when Harry is your age, because that was always what we were used to.
Selina: I don’t know. I think I definitely see his point, and it’s sort of one of the things I’ve struggled with, too, is just feeling like my Harry is stuck in that time he was at Hogwarts, and it’s hard for me to consider that his story goes on, his life goes on, but I actually really do enjoy that, that if the trio is going to have a really large presence, then they are going to be a little bit older, because I feel like that will give us something for a while. It’s not like you’re thinking, “Oh, Harry Potter, that’s for kids.” This is actually going to legitimately, probably, hopefully make Harry Potter for adults in a way that it wasn’t before. Not to say that adults couldn’t have enjoyed it, but it’s always been marketed to kids, and by marketing it not 10 years older, but 20… 21… 19? 19 years later, marketing in that age bracket is actually going to say, “Hey, look, Harry… he’s for everyone, not just for the kids.” And I enjoy that. I appreciate that.
Andrew: Yeah. Okay, well, thank you, Zach, for that interesting feedback.
Chicken Soup for the MuggleCast Soul
Andrew: And finally today, we’re going to wrap up with a Chicken Soup for the MuggleCast Soul. This is from Rebecca.
Eric: Aww.
Andrew: She says,
“Dear Andrew, Micah, and Eric,
I discovered MuggleCast in January of this year, shortly after moving to Ireland for seven months. I am living with a family and working as a nanny for them, and it can sometimes be pretty difficult work, and on top of that, it’s my first time living overseas and away from home. MuggleCast has kept me company through the good times, and times when I’ve been terribly homesick. I will often turn on an episode when it gets too quiet or I start to feel lonely, and it helps to keep my mind busy and entertained for a while, so I just want to say thank you for that!”
Andrew: And Rebecca also has a question for us. She says,
“I’m trying to come up with the perfect birthday gift for the almost 7-year-old boy that I take care of. His name is Harry, so naturally I thought this would be the perfect opportunity to introduce him to the Harry Potter series. He isn’t really interested in books without pictures yet, and I am just wondering what you think about the illustrated editions of the books for first-time Harry Potter readers? I personally loved being able to recreate the world in my head, and I don’t want to take that away from someone who hasn’t had any contact with Harry Potter yet. Do you think that the illustrated editions could also make it seem more like just a children’s book, rather than a story that can stay with you throughout your life?”
Selina: Hmm.
Andrew: So like I said at the beginning of the show, I’ve been reading parts of Sorcerer’s Stone with the illustrated edition for the first time. There are good chunks of the book without illustrations; you can go through six or seven pages without anything. So I don’t think it’s… I wouldn’t call it heavily illustrated. I guess it’s just right. My porridge is just right.
[Eric and Selina laugh]
Andrew: There are some beautiful illustrations in it, and it will it definitely… for a first-time reader, I think that’s the interesting part of this question. It will definitely influence their imagination, because you do see the faces of these characters. That was something Pottermore tried to avoid; they never showed you the faces, because they didn’t want to take that away from you.
Eric: Right, but… I mean, I think to a worse extent, the movies do that, too, and I think… I seem to recall reading Chronicles of Narnia for the first time when I was younger, and that there were illustrations in that book, but they weren’t necessarily… my mind didn’t adopt them completely, you know what I’m saying? So I wonder if it’s the same thing where you’re kind of… as a kid, you don’t really have the… you don’t know how to say it, but it’s not exactly like you know that those images are being being dictated to you. I think there’s still room for the imagination. What I like about the illustrated edition, and I could rave about it for hours – I won’t – are the pictures of Hogwarts and Quidditch and the owls, and things like that that are illustrated I think really liven up and bring the story to life. Yeah, so I would say actually, the illustrated edition is a great first book, especially if the child is more interested in, more likely to read, picture books. But I will also say that nothing beats just being read the story, whether it’s illustrated or not. If you’re nannying this child, if you have the time, read the book to him or her, or children everywhere. I think that that will make all the difference.
Micah: Now, I think… I like what you’re saying, but I also think the question here is for him learning to read, so in building his experience in terms of doing that. So while it’s great that the book probably can be read to him, it can be read to anybody who’s even younger than that, I would think that this could be a good opportunity with the illustrated edition. The only problem you may run into is that these illustrated editions have not all been published yet, so if he’s really excited to go on to the next book…
Andrew: Oh, true.
Micah: … you might have to wait a little while for Chamber of Secrets, and then it seems like these books are being released on an annual basis, so there is that. But also, with each passing year he’s going to get older and older, and of course, he can then transition to the actual books themselves as they were initially written. My only thing would be – and you all touched on it, and is even mentioned in Rebecca’s email – is that you want the ability to sort of create this world inside of your own head, and I feel like mine was definitely influenced having seen the films first. So I just worry about that, especially seeing an illustrated edition where the pictures are literally right there. The mind is automatically going to look to whatever the creation is on the page to be the main…
Selina: But don’t your American editions have chapter art?
Eric: We do.
Andrew: We were very lucky to get…
Eric: I mean, we never paid much attention to those. I mean, a little bit, sure…
Andrew: But they were small.
Micah: This is different. I mean, you’re talking about a little thing on the first page of the chapter, and then also the cover art versus their actual drawings of iconic…
Eric: I really don’t think the illustrated editions are that bad, and I’ve read the first one all the way through. I don’t think it’s bad at all. I don’t think it’s…
Micah: I’m not saying it’s bad.
Eric: Well, no, like replacing imagination.
Selina: No, I wouldn’t say that picture books or books with that level of pictures actually do that. I think when you read books like… I’ve read plenty of books as a kid that had illustrations with them. If you’ve read… you remember those…? I don’t know if you guys had them, but Pippi Longstocking, for example, there’d be huge pictures on the pages, and then little, tiny bits of text, and I still enjoyed the story. I think my only sort of issue would be maybe he’s a little bit too young to appreciate it, [laughs] just because I tried reading it to 7-year-old, and he definitely did not appreciate it. So you don’t want to make it seem like a kid’s book, I would say. That would be my only worry, would be that he’s definitely going to feel like it’s a book for kids, but at the same time, better that than he experiences the story for the first time through the movies. So I say go for it.
Eric: Yeah, don’t show him the movies. No matter what, don’t show him the movies.
Selina: Yeah, go forward with the books. Yeah, exactly. [laughs]
Andrew: I would also… we should also keep in mind that the reason that they did these illustrated editions was specifically to appeal to a new generation of readers. Sure, the original fans were probably going to buy them, but this is a great way to get younger readers into Harry Potter. So just remember that the publishers did this because they want kids to read it, and I think… the illustrations are so good. They don’t bother the images that I had in my head previously, using my own imagination. All right, well, thank you, Rebecca, for that, and that wraps up today’s episode. Look at that; we did two episodes in a month. We can do two and a half-ish hours of Harry Potter content in a month. [laughs]
Eric: I love it. This is great. It feels like old times again.
Andrew: It really does.
Eric: Recently we passed the 500 patron mark over on our Patreon.
Selina: Wow.
Andrew: Yeah, which is just awesome.
Eric: That was amazing. Thank you to our patrons for their support. One thing worth mentioning is that we are only sending out 687 shirts, and only accepting patrons at the Order of the Phoenix level up to 687 to get those rewards. So there’s only 187 left, less than 200 opportunities to be our patron, to support us and get those lovely rewards, which we work very, very hard to develop.
Andrew: Right.
Eric: In fact, just today I shipped out… or I’m shipping out 100 pieces of album art for our patrons.
Andrew: Excellent. The physical benefits. Even if you sign up after 687, you’ll still get the digital ones.
Eric: Of which there are many, including chapter readings, which we mentioned before.
Micah: And bonus MuggleCast segments.
Eric: Yes.
Andrew: Right, more MuggleCast. We’re doing two bonus MuggleCast segments a month. Also, MuggleCast T-shirts; if you want to receive one of those, you have to be signed up by July 2016, so two more months to go, because we’re going to order all the shirts, get all the sizes, just do one big order. So please visit Patreon.com/MuggleCast if you’d like to sign up. Now that we’ve been rocking and rolling with this for a couple months, there’s a ton of content, so as soon as you sign up, you’re going to see a lot of stuff to listen to, to watch… [laughs] The creepy video of Micah signing album art and Eric sneaking up on him as the floor beneath him creaks.
Eric: You think it’s creepy? I thought it was endearing.
Micah: I don’t think I’ve seen this.
Andrew: It’s creepy.
Eric: The floor does creak. The floor does creak.
Micah: I’m going to have to take a look after the show here.
Andrew: It’s creepy because Eric is walking slowly up on Micah, and it seems like Micah doesn’t know that Eric filming. [laughs]
Eric: He knew I was… I said, “Hey, man,” because we were both signing, and then… but Pink Floyd is playing in the background.
Andrew: [laughs] It cracks me up. It cracks me up.
Micah: And I would also say, too, check out the new – still fairly new – MuggleCast website. It’s fully optimized for everything 2016; that’s all I’ll say.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: But I really like it. We added our famous Wall of Fame to the website, so we have episodes there.
Andrew: I didn’t even know that.
Micah: What’s that?
Andrew: I didn’t even know that. I’m checking it out now. Cool.
Micah: Yeah, remember you took a look at it? And you said it looked great with all of the…?
Andrew: Oh, I lied. I wasn’t… I must have thought you were talking about transcripts or something.
Micah: Oh, yeah. We’re still working on the transcripts…
Eric: Yeah, transcripts are coming.
Micah: … but Wall of Fame is up. We need to add a couple of episodes because it’s been a few years since we selected one as being worthy of the Wall of Fame, but all of the interviews that we’ve done over the years with those that are part of the Potter community, from David Heyman to David Yates and Oliver Phelps, Evanna Lynch… the list goes on and on.
Eric: Jim Dale.
Micah: Those are at the very top, and you can click right through to the episodes that we spoke with them on and listen to them, so definitely head on over there and check it out.
Andrew: Yeah. Thank you, everybody, for listening. Thank you to patrons for your support. Selina, thank you for coming on!
Selina: Thanks for having me. This was so much fun.
Andrew: Selina hosts the weekly Hype podcast on Hypable, which is…
Selina: I do! Thanks for plugging that.
Andrew: Oh, of course!
Selina: Yeah, we talk general fandom news. We talk Harry Potter a lot, so please consider giving that a listen.
Andrew: Of course, of course. Yeah, and you guys are approaching Episode 100.
Selina: 100! I know! It’s crazy. I know you guys are approaching 300.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: Yeah, also crazy. Equally crazy. All the crazy on all the podcasts.
[Andrew and Selina laugh]
Micah: We’ll have to do something for that 300th episode. Not sure what it is.
Andrew: We have to figure out what it’s going to be. So it’s eight episodes after today, so that’s four months from now…
Selina: Is it going to be around Cursed Child?
Andrew: It’s going to be four months from now, so it’ll be in September. [emotionally] When Harry goes back to Hogwarts! First day of Hogwarts!
[Everyone laughs]
Selina: Perfect.
Eric: We’ll interview the guy on the Platform Nine and Three Quarters. The train guy.
Andrew: [laughs] “What’s it like? What’s it like seeing those students on September 1 every year?”
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: All right. Thanks again, everybody, for listening, and we’ll see you next week for – or next time – in two weeks-ish for Episode 293. [in a raspy voice] Goodbye! [clears throat] Goodbye!
Selina: Bye!
Eric: [imitating Hagrid] “Goodbye, Harry.”