Transcript for MuggleCast Episode #320, Tina
Show Intro
[Show music plays]
Andrew Sims: This is MuggleCast, the Harry Potter podcast discussing everything about J.K. Rowling’s wizarding world. Welcome to MuggleCast Episode 320. I’m Andrew.
Eric Scull: I’m Eric.
Micah Tannenbaum: I’m Micah.
Andrew: Oh, Micah, you’re just supposed to say “And I’m Micah,” because we have a guest this week, and I’m going to intro them. Katy!
Micah: And I’m Micah.
[Katy laughs]
Andrew: Great.
Katy: Better late than never.
Andrew: Katy is here, a member of our Slug Club on Patreon. Welcome, Katy!
Katy: Thanks! I am so happy to be here. Hey, everybody in Patreon world that’s listening live, and everybody else who listens to this later. Hi!
Eric: Katy, it’s great to have you. Andrew, it’s great to have you back.
Andrew: Yes, thank you, boys, for holding the fort down for me. I appreciate it.
Micah: That’s what threw me off, honestly, Andrew. Having hosted the show last week, I was just confused, so I apologize.
Andrew: [laughs] Okay, sure. I was actually on a cross-country road trip. I went through beautiful states in our country, including Utah, where… was it Utah I ran into this? I’m already forgetting. [laughs]
Eric: Yeah, it was. It was the Thunderbird Restaurant.
Andrew: Yeah, so it was so funny, a little Ilvermorny thing here. So I’m stopping for lunch somewhere on my road trip, and I found the place I was going to, and I get out of the car and I’m about to walk into the restaurant, and I look across the street and I see a big neon sign that says “Thunderbolt Restaurant.”
Eric: Thunderbird.
Andrew: So I turn around, I jump back in my car, I drive across the street, and I dined at Thunderbolt Restaurant, because I had to, because of Ilvermorny.
Eric: Bird. Thunderbird.
[Katy laughs]
Andrew: Thunder… what did I just say?
Katy: Bolt.
Eric: Thunderbolt.
Andrew: Thunderbolt, oh. I was thinking about the Apple port.
Eric: Thunderbird.
Andrew: Yes, Thunderbird. And obviously, it has absolutely nothing to do with Ilvermorny or Fantastic Beasts. [laughs] But I thought it was cool.
Micah: Did you try out those ho-made pies?
[Katy laughs]
Andrew: Yes, yes, I did. Made by Jacob himself.
Eric: Oh. Now I feel like you’re joking.
Micah: Those didn’t look like they were made by Jacob, I’m just saying, based on the sign.
Eric: [laughs] On the sign?
Andrew: I actually had a grilled cheese because I’m four years old, and they weren’t serving breakfast like I wanted. But they had the Thunderbolt…
Eric: Bird.
Andrew: Oh my God. Thunderbird. Thunderbird. I’m sorry.
[Eric and Katy laugh]
Eric: Did we eat there or did you?
Andrew: I just ordered a Thunderbolt port converter thing, and that’s why I keep saying that.
Eric: Ohh.
Andrew: Thunderbird. They had a Thunderbird on the sign. Posted it on Twitter, posted it on our Patreon. Yeah, so it was funny. But it also bugs me a little bit. I’m like, “Ugh, J.K. Rowling, culture appropriation.” It just reminded me that the Thunderbird is rooted in history. [laughs]
Eric: Oh, but Rowling did that all the time. It wasn’t until she did it with the Native American culture that she messed up, I think, a little bit.
Andrew: I guess. But Thunderbird Restaurant, somewhere in the middle of nowhere, Utah, good place to eat. Highly recommend it.
[Eric laughs]
Micah: Well, apparently there’s also one in rural Pennsylvania.
Andrew: Yeah, we’ve been getting tweets from people being like, “Oh, I’ve seen a Thunderbird Restaurant too,” right?
Eric: Huh.
Andrew: Yeah, so I thought it was less cool. But anyway, so Katy, let’s get your fandom ID. We’ve been doing this with our Patreon guests who have joined us so far. You’re the third one, so some rapid fire questions here. What’s your favorite Harry Potter book?
Katy: Half-Blood Prince, because I love backstory.
Eric: Oooh.
Andrew: Movie?
Katy: Sorcerer’s Stone.
Eric: Love it.
Katy: Because it’s what got me into Potter.
Andrew: Aww. Hogwarts House?
Katy: After taking the quiz ten times, I can tell you I am a Ravenclaw.
Micah: Yeah!
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: Oh, so did you keep taking it until you got the House you wanted?
Katy: No, no, no. Statistically, out of ten results, I was more Ravenclaw than anything else.
Eric: What were the…? How many times were you each House?
Katy: Oh, I’d have to look at my chart.
Eric: Oh, a chart. [laughs] I was going to say for a second… for you not knowing the answer, I was like, “Oh, some Ravenclaw,” but you’re like, “Oh, I made a chart,” and then I’m like, “Oh, okay.”
Katy: [laughs] No, I made a spreadsheet. I literally did. I think it was four times with Ravenclaw, I’m pretty sure.
Andrew and Eric: Okay.
Andrew: How about Ilvermorny House?
Katy: Thunderbird. I think that was six times.
[Andrew and Katy laugh]
Andrew: Six times, okay. We’re going to have to go to that restaurant then. Patronus?
Katy: Statistically, once again, it should be a Siberian cat, but my first quiz result was a St. Bernard dog, so I’m happy with either one.
Eric: There’s like 200 options; how could you take the quiz enough times? Did you get that really more than once?
Katy: I did!
Eric: Oh, okay.
Katy: Once again, yeah, I took all of them ten times, and I actually did get the Siberian cat twice, so I guess that really should be it. And I love cats.
Andrew: So you have ten different email accounts associated with Pottermore?
Katy: Well, yeah, I own several domain names, so I can just whip out email addresses left and right.
[Andrew and Katy laugh]
Eric: Oh, man.
Andrew: Katy.Pottermore@Gmail 1…
[Katy laughs]
Eric: You’re the coolest super fan I think we’ve ever had on. This is great.
Katy: [laughs] I’m just the most obsessed. I don’t know.
Andrew: Okay, here’s a weird question we haven’t asked before: Favorite J.K. Rowling tweet?
Katy: Okay, it’s not so much my favorite Rowling tweet, but it’s my favorite tweet that she liked. Is that okay?
Andrew: Okay, sure.
Eric: Oh, this is interesting. This is even more involved and deep.
Micah: Better be Andrew’s.
[Andrew and Katy laugh]
Katy: And I think you guys actually mentioned this on a previous show, but someone tweeted her asking her if Ariana Dumbledore was an Obscurus, and she liked their tweet. And then somebody retweeted that and said, “Am I the only one taking her likes as a yes?” And then she liked that tweet…
[Eric laughs]
Katy: … so then I responded and said, “Well, now it’s been double liked by Rowling. I’ll take that as an emphatic yes.” And then she liked my tweet!
Eric: Ohh.
Andrew: Nice!
Katy: So it was like Inception likes that totally confirmed that Ariana is going to be an Obscurus, so I was thrilled. [laughs]
Andrew: That’s awesome. Confirming information through tweets. Hashtag #2017.
Katy: Yes. [laughs]
Andrew: And this question – I swear it’s going to become relevant later – what’s your favorite type of hot dog?
Katy: The only ones that I can eat, which is to say one with a gluten-free bun, because I’m allergic.
[Eric and Katy laugh]
Andrew: Allergic to what? Gluten?
Katy: Yeah.
Andrew: Oh, okay. I thought you were going to say, “The only one I can eat, which is a vegetarian hot dog.”
Katy: No, no.
Eric: Any toppings on the hot dog there, Katy?
Katy: Oh, sure. Stick on the… not relish, gross. But mustard, ketchup, chili, onions… the works.
Eric: Love it.
Andrew: What’s your favorite Bertie Bott Every Flavor Bean?
Katy: Okay, so I ate a bunch of these once at a Harry Potter meetup group, because I was the only one in the group that was brave enough to do it, so I was the guinea pig. And I tried one of each, and I can proudly say that I did not spit; I swallowed every single one.
Eric: Whoa.
[Andrew laughs]
Katy: And I’ve got some lovely pictures of this disgusted look on my face, because some of them are so gross.
Eric: They’re mostly awful. They are mostly really bad.
Katy: They are mostly… absolutely. But I think tutti frutti was my favorite, if I recall.
Eric: Yeah, tutti frutti is great. Tutti frutti is great, but I don’t really know where that occurs in nature, you know?
[Katy laughs]
Eric: That’s the issue that I have with… tutti frutti is obviously a very popular flavor across beans and candy and all that stuff, but what is a tutti frutti? So how can you…? See, I did this thing recently for MuggleNet where we rated… it was on National Jelly Bean Day, which was the end of April.
Katy: Nice.
Eric: And there’s a YouTube video of it where I tasted these finally, because I was similarly scared to death to try these, but tutti frutti is delicious, but I kind of call BS, because what exactly is it?
Katy: It seems to me like bubblegum mashed up with a bunch of fruit flavors.
Eric: Yeah, so it’s kind of like a combination sort of thing? But the earwax, the grass, and the vomit were extremely accurate.
Katy: Yeah, I put them out of my head. That whole experience was a little bit traumatic.
Eric: Yeah, I’m never going to do… I’m so glad I caught it on video, because I’m never doing it again.
Micah: Which ones were accurate?
Eric: Vomit, grass, and earwax.
Andrew: Vomit? Oh, I’m not…
Eric: Oh, and there’s also earthworm. Earthworm is really accurate, you guys.
Katy: Ugh.
Eric: Not that I have eaten worms…
Micah: Are you suggesting that you’ve eaten grass, earwax, and earthworm before? So you have a point of comparison…
Eric: I think in the case of… well, in the case of grass… and this is the only subsection of that question that I’ll answer. In the case of grass, it tastes like fresh cut grass smells, so sort of like an Amortentia sort of thing.
Andrew: This might bring up bad memories, but when you said that, I’m just picturing you on the schoolyard being bullied, and some bully comes up to you and is like, “Eat grass, kid!” And then he pushes you to the ground.
[Katy laughs]
Eric: Yeah, it’s possible. Where do any of our sensory memories come from? A lot of them are repressed.
Andrew: Okay, and look, I would love to get into a deep dive on Bertie Bott’s, but we all have a show to get to today.
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: We have so much to do. We really have so much to do. This episode is packed.
Andrew: And finally, Katy, how did you get started with Harry Potter?
Katy: Okay, I’ll make it brief. I’d been resisting Potter even though everybody was telling me that I should read it, because I thought it was a fad, and I was like, “Nope, not gonna do it.” But I had just turned 22 when the first movie came out, and I swore I was not going to go see it. But my boyfriend and I went to the movie theater around the time that it came out, and I think we went to see Shallow Hal, which I never did end up seeing.
[Eric laughs]
Katy: And we happened to run into my older brother and his friends at the concessions stand, and they were there to see Potter, and I love to hang out with my brother, so we were like, “Oh, let’s just go see Potter with them instead.” And by the end of the movie when Hagrid gives Harry the photo album, I was in tears, had completely fallen head over heels in love, and I devoured all four books within two weeks afterwards.
Andrew and Eric: Aww.
Andrew: That’s great. And here you are today.
Katy: Indeed.
Andrew: On MuggleCast.
Katy: Squee! Well, this is actually my second time on MuggleCast. I don’t know if you guys remember… not live, but back in 2006 you guys had a “Create your own MuggleCast segment” contest…
Eric: Oh my God.
Andrew: Oh, yeah!
Katy: … and I was number two? Was I the second winner, I think? Crap, where did my notes go? Yeah, and I sang a song. I did a parody song of Lisa Loeb’s “Stay” that was Harry Potter-inspired, because I was saying you guys needed more music on your podcast, and you played my song.
[Andrew and Katy laugh]
Eric: We’ve got to find that episode, clearly.
Micah: We need to go back and pull that segment and play it right here.
Katy: [laughs] It’s Episode 30, right after the one hour mark, if you want to find it.
Micah: Oh, wow.
Andrew: Okay. We should try to find it.
Eric: Oh, well, that was easy. That was a little too easy.
Katy: [laughs] I had to look it up earlier.
Eric: Thanks, Ravenclaw.
Andrew: Episode 30, right after the one hour mark. Got it. I actually remember that “Make your own MuggleCast segment.” That was a lot of fun. They turned out really good, all of them.
Eric: We had a lot of really cool fan interactive ideas. “Ways to annoy Voldemort” was a big thing…
[Katy laughs]
Eric: All sorts of old stuff.
Andrew: Yeah. Anyway, so let’s get to some news, and then later we are going to have a main discussion on Tina, and just before that, we’re going to get some feedback from listeners on Jacob. Then, later in the show, we’re going to listen to some voicemails and respond to them. We got some really interesting ones. I had a blast listening to them.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Andrew: By the way, we are listening to all of the voicemails, and it’s really nice to hear everybody’s voices and hear your feedback instead of just reading it, so thank you to everybody who’s been calling in. And we can’t play them all on the show; we try to get through as many as we can. But this week we have some fun ones, so I’m looking forward to playing them.
News
Andrew: So let’s talk about some news. Pottermore has announced that it is launching a Wizarding World book club in honor of Philosopher’s Stone being released 20 years ago this year. They are going to be starting, of course, with the first Harry Potter book, and it looks like the intention is to go through all seven. The book club “aims to surprise and delight those who have never read a Harry Potter book, as well as returning readers who want to join the conversation about the series, especially during these 20th anniversary celebrations.”
Eric: It’s so interesting because Pottermore is essentially getting back to how it started to begin with, right? I mean, it was originally only Book 1 was available, and they had those very nice flash animation moments for each chapter, and you could go through the books. I mean, I almost, for a second, blinked and forgot that that was Pottermore’s own origins, but it used to be all about the read-through quality, and I question how much of that they’re going to start bringing back.
Andrew: Yeah. Well, I don’t… it says that “members will be able to enjoy the shared experience of reading the books together, and then joining the discussions we’re facilitating on our social channels, all curated by Pottermore.”
Eric: Hmm.
Andrew: So it kind of sounds like it’s not going to be on the website at all; it’s mostly going to be through social.
Katy: So Twitter, probably. Isn’t that what they mostly use? See, you can’t say very much in 140 characters. I’m sorry.
Andrew: Right, you can’t do a deep dive.
Eric: Well, Pottermore’s own user-based generated names are all kind of a mess, right?
Andrew: Oh, yeah.
Eric: I mean, it’s impossible to tell what each other’s usernames even are, and so that’s sort of out for discussion. Facebook is another way to… it’s going to be interesting. What unsettles me most about Pottermore in 2017 is its attempt to be like a fansite, which is a little disingenuous, because they’re so much not a fansite. They are the official stopgap between actual patented licensed knowledge and canon; they’re guardians of the new canon. And yet you have this guy who’s basically a joke, the Pottermore Insider, typing up fan articles.
Andrew: [laughs] Ouch.
Micah: Wow.
Katy: It’s true.
Eric: No, I mean, seriously, fan articles about…
Andrew: What did he ever do to you?
[Katy laughs]
Eric: I’m sorry, but it’s really… it’s sort of an insult to actual Harry Potter fansites, I feel, when they’re talking about such frivolous topics as… well, let me pull some up. You know what? I don’t even need to. I’ve said my bit. It’s just Pottermore… it’s exciting that Pottermore is potentially going to be releasing new, never-before-seen content relating to these chapters, but that’s always what you go to Pottermore for, that’s always what everyone’s gone to Pottermore for, and that’s what I’m hoping for. But it sounds like they’re not promising anything. They’re still being very vague.
Andrew: No.
Micah: Well, look, all I have to say is that if you want to listen or participate in discussion about the books, there’s this thing called MuggleCast that’s existed for 12 years…
[Andrew and Katy laugh]
Micah: … and we started Chapter by Chapter actually all the way back in Episode 31 for Sorcerer’s Stone, and we’ve done every book Chapter by Chapter; that’s what we called it. And so I don’t know that you really need to do a book club. So Eric, there’s your answer.
Andrew: I think it’s a good idea. I disagree with both of you; I think it’s a good idea. And since they’re talking about heavy Twitter presence, my hope is that J.K. Rowling is going to get involved in this, because we all know she loves using Twitter. I think that would make this really, really special. Imagine going through each chapter and J.K. Rowling… I don’t expect her to drop info for every chapter, but many of the chapters, she can add a fun fact about the chapter. “Oh, I almost added this character in here, but then I cut it. Oh, this chapter was almost on the chopping block. Oh, I apologize for this chapter.”
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: She’ll be tweeting all kinds of stuff, and we’re going to be able to write about it and talk about it on the show.
Eric: “This chapter was written while I was eating French fries.”
[Katy laughs]
Andrew: Yeah, right. “Breaking: J.K. Rowling eats French fries.”
Eric: “I distinctly remember…” Yeah, or a hot dog.
[Katy laughs]
Eric: But I think that…
Andrew: Gluten-free.
Micah: I’m not saying that it’s not a good idea; I’m just saying that there’s other means out there for people to participate, and there have been for quite some time, so it’s not a new idea to create this kind of book club.
Eric: Quite some time. Well, yeah, I…
Micah: But if it fosters discussion, and there’s new content, and J.K. Rowling participates – maybe some other people that are notable in the Potter community participate – then I think it should be fun. I actually disagree with the comment about Pottermore from earlier; I think that they’ve done themselves an amazing service by becoming this sort of clearing house for all things Potter. We’ve talked about this before, how they’ve really become the central hub for Cursed Child, for Fantastic Beasts, for anything related to Potter, and I think that was a smart move on their part. And they’re just looking to find new ways to continue to stay relevant and to continue to grow, and this is a great way for them to do that, whether (I jokingly was talking about) our podcast or not. I’m just saying, hey, look, Episode 31 we started Chapter by Chapter. If you want to give a listen, go ahead.
Eric: It was the episode right after Katy was on.
Andrew: Right. She inspired us.
Katy: [laughs] Clearly it’s all thanks to me.
Eric: And I’m certainly content reporting the new stuff that comes out on Pottermore, but personally, I’ve already gone through chapters on podcasts, not just once on here, but twice, because Alohomora, MuggleNet’s other podcast, was dedicated to a global reread of Harry Potter, and they went through all seven books. And entire episodes that were hours and hours long went into reading all of Potter with a mindset of today, a mindset of “Now that the books are finished, here’s what each chapter means to us,” and frankly, the level of detail and discussion that the hosts of that show – myself included – went into on some of those chapters far exceeds anything that an official brand, in my confidence, is going to be able to do, and I’ll leave it right there.
Katy: I completely agree, yeah.
Andrew: And that brings up a good point. We’re talking about how Pottermore wants to be seen as a fansite; maybe they should involve the fansites. Involve MuggleNet, Leaky, SnitchSeeker, the podcasts… I mean, I think that would be a great way to level with the fansites and win over the trust of the fans.
Eric: Kind of like… remember when Fantastic Beasts invited those YouTubers to the set?
Andrew: Right.
Katy: Oh, God.
[Andrew and Katy laugh]
Andrew: Well, moving on to some other news now, mark those calendars; Harry Potter and the Cursed Child has set its Broadway opening date. It is opening April 22, 2018 at New York City’s Lyric Theater, which is currently undergoing an expansion of seats to fit more fans, and get ready for the excitement of the show.
Micah: And to fit more owls.
Andrew: And to fit more owls, and make sure they don’t get lost up in the rafters.
Micah: It’s true.
Andrew: It will be an owl-friendly theater.
[Eric and Katy laugh]
Eric: Putting a bunch of bird spikes up in the rafters so they don’t land.
[Andrew laughs]
Katy: Aww.
Eric: No, I mean, look, they’re plastic. They don’t impale the birds; they just prevent them from landing.
Katy: Okay, plastic. Got it.
Eric: I’m saying horrible things this episode.
[Katy laughs]
Eric: That is my birthday weekend next year.
Andrew: Oh.
Eric: I feel like I would be remiss if I didn’t turn it into a thing, so I’m going to go. My birthday is the 23rd of April, so I think…
Andrew: Well, if you want the fun stuff, if you want the owls, you’ve got to go during the test period.
Eric: Previews, you’re right.
Andrew: Right, the previews. So if the show is officially opening April 22, I would expect previews to begin February or March.
Eric: Yeah. Okay, okay.
Andrew: We’ll have to all get tickets together.
Eric: Yeah. Oh, we’re totally doing that.
Andrew: Yeah. No word yet on when tickets will go on sale, by the way, but presumably soon.
Eric: And especially if we get the preview, if we get into the preview of the Broadway, Andrew, you’ll have been sort of the first person to see both productions, the first fan to see both.
Andrew: Yeah, you know, it’s the life I lead. Hashtag #blessed.
[Eric and Katy laugh]
Andrew: No, I’m not going to be allowed into Cursed Child America.
Eric: Not after all that Wormtaily stuff you did.
Andrew: Yeah. [imitating a security guard] “We’ve got Wormtaily at the door, Wormtaily at the door. Don’t let him in, don’t let him in.”
[Eric and Katy laugh]
Andrew: “I just want to see if you have a live owl!” “No, sir, we’re not letting you in.”
[Katy laughs]
Andrew: I was actually paranoid that they weren’t going to let me into Part 2, because Part 1 came out and then we did that report, and then J.K. Rowling writes that tweet, and then there’s a full 36 to 48 hours in between Part 1 and Part 2. I was ready to be turned away at the door. I kept my head down walking into that theater.
[Eric and Katy laugh]
Andrew: Got a hat on…
Katy: Wearing a hoodie.
Andrew: Or a hoodie. If anybody asked for my name, I was going to say, “Micah. My name is Micah.”
[Everyone laughs]
Micah: They would have given you the best seats in the house.
[Andrew and Katy laugh]
Micah: “Oh, Mr. Tannenbaum, please.”
Eric: Micah is a secret member of all of the British West End theaters.
Andrew: “Right this way. We’re going to put you in J.K. Rowling’s box, sir.” J.K. Rowling was there during Part 2, remember?
Eric: Oh, man.
Andrew: Yeah. All right, one other news item today, a little kind of sad news, I guess? We all remember that “prequel” that J.K. Rowling wrote back in 2008 for charity about James and Sirius, their little run-in with police. It was set three years before Harry Potter was born. It was exciting because, oh my gosh, Harry Potter prequel, what we’ve all wanted. And she wrote it, she handwrote it on a card, and then they auctioned it off for charity. It sold for $32,000; the money went to English PEN and Dyslexia Action. Now it’s been stolen! It was stolen in wherever it was residing in Birmingham, England, and police and J.K. Rowling are asking for help. They are worried that the thief is going to sell it to a die-hard Harry Potter fan who would really want this, because the police are thinking that someone who’s not a Harry Potter fan wouldn’t really care for it, although I would think they would, because it’s still a very important collector’s item. But nonetheless, they think the thief might want to take advantage of Harry Potter fans. So J.K. Rowling tweeted in all caps, “PLEASE DON’T BUY THIS IF YOU’RE OFFERED IT. It was originally auctioned for English PEN. The owner supported writers’ freedoms by bidding for it.”
Katy: And why would you buy it if you can’t brag about it? I mean, really.
Andrew: Right, because in theory, you would have to turn it in.
Katy: Because the moment you say, “I have it!” Yeah, exactly. That’s pointless.
Andrew: Yeah, good point.
Micah: And we’ve already read it, so…
Eric: Yeah, I mean, she was kind enough to release the text of it in… it was probably on her website back when. Really, just the novelty of having it in person… we should, I mean, as a unified voice, just condemn this. This is bad.
Micah: Are there not cameras where this piece of paper was being showcased or held?
Andrew: [laughs] I don’t know.
Eric: I guess not.
Andrew: It’s pretty small. I mean, you could have carried it in your wallet. That’s what I would have done.
Micah: Is that how you did it?
[Katy laughs]
Andrew: I’m thinking what we do, the three of us… I mean, we are die-hard Harry Potter fans, but we pose as super die-hard Harry Potter fans who are dying for this card, we reach out to the thief however we can find them, and use our Patreon fundings to buy the card, and then we’ll send it back to J.K. Rowling. Wouldn’t that be good?
Eric: Yeah, she might actually reply to us on Twitter if we do that.
[Andrew and Katy laugh]
Eric: We might be in such good graces with her…
Micah: We could get knighted for this, Eric.
Andrew: [laughs] “Knighted.”
[Katy laughs]
Eric: And she is the queen.
Andrew: Or I’m thinking – and this is less of a joke – maybe just release the story online, or write a bigger version of the story.
Eric: Yeah, to sort of lower the value.
Andrew: Right, because it’s not like she was going to release more of these for charity anyway.
Eric: Yeah. No, I mean, this is…
Micah: I mean, if you’re going to steal any piece of paper, go steal the letter from Newt’s brother that’s in the display in Los Angeles. I mean, at least we want to know what that says.
Eric: Yeah, so we can see the rest of it.
Andrew: Yeah, we don’t trust Lego.
[Eric and Katy laugh]
Micah: He didn’t even finish. He cut off.
Eric: Oh, yeah. That’s right, that’s right.
Andrew: All right, so that’s all the news we got for everybody this week.
Listener Feedback
Andrew: Before we jump into this week’s discussion about Tina, let’s go back a week, share some rebuttals about Jacob.
Micah: All right, so the first one here is from Katie King. She says,
“Hi Andrew, Micah, and Eric! I was listening to the character discussion of Jacob and the theories Eric presented regarding Jacob’s likelihood of getting his memories back. During this conversation, I was thinking about Hermione’s parents. Hermione went to Australia after the Battle of Hogwarts to find her parents and successfully return their memories. If a 17/18-year-old witch can return a year’s worth of memories to two people, certainly Newt, Queenie, and Tina would be able to return a day or two for Jacob. I don’t think it was ever revealed how Hermione actually accomplished this, but it does give us a clue that it’s possible. I’ve been listening for 10+ years and I love the show. Keep up the great discussions!”
Eric: Wow. This is great. Clearly an eagle-eyed reader who’s familiar with extended interview answers from J.K. Rowling, or potentially… she also credits the HP Wiki, which nobody should be reading that. It’s not well-sourced.
Micah: That’s why I cut that out.
Eric: But yeah, no, it is titillating, and if it is the case, if Jo did say that at some point, then it’s a perfect sort of rebuttal. Clearly it’s possible to bring memories back.
Micah: Next one is from Danielle, who says, “Listened to your Jacob episode, and I wanted to make a comment on the possibilities of why Jacob seems to remember at least some of his experiences with Queenie and the rest of the new gang. I agree that all the explanations Eric listed are logical and plausible.” Really?
[Eric laughs]
Micah: “But I feel like we’re missing what the Harry Potter series has taught us. What I think is the easiest explanation – love. Didn’t Harry Potter teach us that love is a source of magic that is powerful and something we don’t entirely understand? It would make sense to me that Jacob loved Queenie so much, it somehow trumped the memory-altering potion. Even if he doesn’t remember everything, something is obviously working in his brain, making him create the beastly baked goods. And when he sees Queenie, he knows that he loves her, but maybe not why. We’ve seen love save Harry, seen it save the people at the Battle of Hogwarts, Dumbledore believed in it, and it’s the most mysterious thing in the Department of Mysteries. So that’s the explanation I would like to offer. What about love? (Sorry, the song just popped into my head when I thought about writing this email, and it had to be used.)”
Eric: [singing] “What about love?”
Katy: [singing] “Don’t you want someone to care about you?” That’s awesome. I like that.
Eric: Yeah, that’s great.
Micah: Yep, and Monica also wrote in and was pretty much in agreement with everything that Danielle just said. And then we also heard from Claire, who says,
“Hello MuggleCast! In your character discussion on Jacob in the latest episode, you talked about the possibility of Jacob becoming a sort of bridge between the No-Maj and wizarding worlds in America. While I agree with this idea, I would add that it will be Jacob and Queenie together who will be able to unite these two worlds, rather than Jacob alone. The way I see it, their relationship mirrors that of Isolt Sayre and James Steward, the founders of Ilvermorny.”
Eric: Oooh.
Micah: “In Fantastic Beasts, we see some of these same themes: Queenie, the powerful witch who feels sympathy for Jacob, the No-Maj who is brought to her home to recover from the Murtlap bite wound and whose memory they are constantly threatening to erase. Instead he becomes an integral part of their lives, and ultimately, I believe he will play an important part in shaping the magical history of America, just as James Steward did when he became a founder of Ilvermorny. I think it’s even possible that the relationship between Jacob and Queenie might eventually lead to the relaxing of the Rappaport’s Law and bring the wizarding world of America back to its more tolerant/inclusive roots. Thanks for reading and for producing such great content for discussion! I am a longtime listener of the show and I love having the weekly episodes again.”
Eric: This is amazing, to connect the relationship between Jacob and Queenie in the movie to the Pottermore story of Isolt and James Stewart, the founders of Ilvermorny. Wow.
Andrew: Yeah, that’s very poetic.
Eric: Also, the idea that the relationship between Jacob and Queenie will somehow become exposed, but heralded as sort of the highest form of love, that it would be something that wizards will then aspire to intermingle with Muggles because of the purity of this public display of affection. Very interesting, and very hopeful. Ultimately, I hope that the next few films are as optimistic and hopeful, and not as sad or otherwise war-torn as they could be.
Micah: Yep.
Andrew: Yeah. And I’m still thinking about these emails from Danielle and Monica. That’s such a good point; it’s been in front of our eyes this whole movie, and we didn’t see it.
Eric: Love.
Andrew: Love, love.
Katy: Aww.
Micah: We also heard from Tomasz, who said,
“I have just listened to your last MuggleCast episode and wanted to add my thoughts to the discussion on how is it possible that Jacob still has some memories from his time when he entered the magical world. I consider him to be an artist. His pastries are definitely not your standard cakes, but more like small works of art. We must assume he gets some inspirations for them. Being an artistic soul, he probably is open to his subconsciousness, and I think this is where all the magical memories ended up – deep in the subconscious part of his mind.
Remember how Voldemort was able to get the memories out from Bertha Jorkins, who had a Memory Charm put on her? This means those memories are not completely erased; they can be still reached. And I bet some people are more likely to get to those erased memories than others. In case of a forced recollection of memories from Bertha, this drove her to madness. But in the case of Jacob, this is not a full memory restoration – those are more like ghosts of memories, glimpses into subconscious that he uses when creative. I was wondering what are your views on this.”
Eric: Whoa. Yeah, I get chills and goosebumps whenever a listener quotes the book back to us.
[Eric and Katy laugh]
Eric: Like, awesome. This is just amazing, and we didn’t think about it at all. Like the example of Bertha Jorkins getting her memory back, or basically her memories are still in there somewhere, and the connection to the subconscious and the artistic side of the brain.
Katy: Well, we see that a lot in Half-Blood, too, because Dumbledore has to extract these memories that have been either altered or buried by Voldemort himself to get to the truth, so I could totally see that being the case.
Micah: And finally, from Adam. He says,
“As I listened to the discussion about Jacob’s qualities as a regular ol’ Muggle, I couldn’t help but make the connection with Grindelwald’s stance on Muggles. Knowing how much Grindelwald disdains Muggles, I could totally see him completely disregarding Jacob, allowing Jacob to take advantage and accomplish some key task. Jacob could very well be the Dobby of the Fantastic Beasts series.”
[Eric laughs]
Micah: “It seems like the sort of thing J.K. Rowling would do. Looking forward to shots of the green apron and all that comes with it!”
[Katy laughs]
Andrew: Wow. Is Adam hitting on me?
Eric: At this point, I’m just holding on to the apron just to ruin this from ever happening, but okay. I’m interested.
Katy: Hey, we want you to wear it too.
Eric: Oh, God. What?
Katy: It’s got to be a calendar. All three of you. We need pictures for a calendar.
Andrew: [laughs] Oh, yes.
Eric: Why did you send us this thing? Ugh.
Andrew: Wait, it was you, Katy, who sent the apron, right?
Katy: I did. [laughs]
Andrew: Thank you so much. I can’t wait to wear that.
Katy: I was laughing so hard after that episode. I just had to do it.
[Andrew and Katy laugh]
Andrew: Well, yeah, I think this is a good idea from Adam. I just hope it’s not like he has to bring the key around the corner when nobody’s looking. That’s a little too basic.
Eric: Yeah. I also hope that it’s not like he gets buried at Shell Cottage 80 years before Dobby. I just don’t want him to die in the same way that Dobby dies.
Katy: Oh, God, I hope not.
Andrew: But would you be okay if he wasn’t buried at Shell Cottage?
Eric: Yeah, if he’s buried anywhere else.
[Katy laughs]
Andrew: Will he be held in Newt’s arms?
Eric: No, I don’t want Jacob to die. No.
Andrew: Of course not.
Eric: I’d honestly like to see this series be less bleak and with fewer deaths than we saw in the Harry Potter series.
Andrew: Mmm, this is an adult series.
Eric: I know, I know. And it has Grindelwald, who’s, I think, objectively scarier and more accomplished at murder than Voldemort even was.
Katy: But he also doesn’t want to kill all wizards… sorry, not all wizards. Obviously Voldemort didn’t want to kill all wizards. But Voldemort wanted to kill even Mudbloods and Muggle-borns and so forth, whereas Grindelwald wants all wizards, it seems like, to stick around; he just wants them to rule the Muggles.
Eric: That’s a really good point, actually.
Katy: I think that might be one reason he didn’t kill anyone in Fantastic Beasts. I mean, he tried to with Newt and Tina, just to get them out of the way, because they figured out who he was. But yeah, I feel like his heart wasn’t completely in it when he was shooting spells at them at the end and at the Aurors, because he didn’t actually kill anybody, as far as we know.
Eric: Because they’re prized blood. He didn’t want to harm…
Andrew: But they’re still in his way from taking over.
Eric: They’re in his way, but I think… do you think…? So Katy, what you’re saying is he actually has a reason not to want to kill witches and wizards.
Katy: Yeah, unless he can… if he can help it. I mean, yeah, if they’re definitely in his way, like at the very beginning of the movie, it looked like he blew those guys away, so I’m sure he has killed. But I think if he can help it, he tries not to; he tries to just persuade them of his stance. He gave his little speech there at the end: “Who are we protecting, us or them?” So I feel like he’s kind of on this crusade. He’s trying to get people to see it his way, and he’s obviously very… what’s the word? Whatever word that Theseus used in the letter to Newt.
Eric: Charismatic?
Katy: Yeah, yeah, people like him; people respond to him. He’s obviously a good speaker. I mean, Dumbledore was taken by him, so I feel like that’s what he’s trying to draw in, is his strength in that regard, and not just blowing everybody in his way out of the way.
Main Discussion: Tina Goldstein
Andrew: All right, well, let’s move on to our character discussion about Tina.
Eric: Yay.
Katy: Tina!
Eric: So Porpentina – nicknamed Tina – Goldstein, according to Katy’s notes, was born August 19, 1901. She’s four years younger than Newt Scamander, our hero of Fantastic Beasts. And actually, what you’ve done, which we did not do – which I did not do in my notes, Katy – was you actually found some really cool name origin stuff about Tina, and I think that we should probably lead off with that.
Andrew: Yeah, it could add to this discussion, this analysis of the character, and what might be in store.
Eric: Because we know J.K. Rowling never chooses… never just throws darts against a wall for name picking. Every name is intentional and significant.
Katy: Exactly. And I’ve totally learned that from you guys, from Alohomora, from SpeakBeasty, so when I knew we were doing Tina, I was like, “Wait, I gotta dissect the name. I just gotta. See if anything’s there.”
[Andrew laughs]
Katy: So the thing about it being an outdated term for porcupine I thought might be a comment on her kind of prickly nature, because she doesn’t come across all warm and cuddly and fuzzy and someone you would just go up and give a hug to; she’s a little more standoffish, and I’m wondering, is that a direct result of her parents’ untimely death, and the need to be strong for Queenie? Because she obviously contains a great wealth of love and compassion; we see that with her interactions with Credence and with Newt, etc. But she seems to only show that side of her to those that she really trusts or those that she’s trying to protect, so I thought that might be one reason that she chose that name, was part of her personality.
Eric: So porpentine is the old way of saying porcupine?
Katy: Yes.
Eric: Cool.
Katy: Yeah. And then I had a lot of fun with her middle name…
Eric: Okay.
Katy: … which is Esther, and I grew up in a Christian home, so I knew immediately that that was a name in the Bible, a book in the Bible as well. But there’s a lot more to it than just that, and I had a lot of fun doing a little research and learning this myself. So the name Esther is a common Persian word meaning “star.” Queen Esther from ancient times… so she was born around 492 BC. And her original Hebrew name was Hadassah – I hope I said that right – and that is a Jewish name meaning “myrtle,” which I thought that was kind of cool too.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: Wink, wink.
Eric: That’s the perfect emoji response to that.
Katy: It is.
[Andrew and Katy laugh]
Eric: Winky face emoji.
Katy: The name Esther was probably given to her when she entered the court of the Persian king, and that’s what she was known as by the people. But to a Hebrew audience, the name Esther, the way it was written had far more meaning than simply the word “star” in the language of their abductors. And there was this whole little spiel that broke down the name a few letters at a time and what those meant, and I’m not going to even try to read that because it’s in Hebrew, and I can’t. But basically, the foreign name “Esther” would have looked to mean “She searches out evil” to a Hebrew audience.
Eric: Whoa.
Katy: And I mean, for her being an Auror, “She searches out evil,” that’s kind of perfect. [laughs]
Andrew: Yeah, absolutely.
Eric: That’s pretty on the nose. I’m doing the nose emoji and then the pointing finger emoji right now.
Katy: [laughs] And that wasn’t on the first page I searched; that was two or three deep. So I feel like she didn’t just take the first meaning and go with that; she definitely…
Andrew: No, J.K. Rowling goes deep into the Google search results. [laughs]
Eric: She’s possibly also fluent on the Bible. I think she’s pretty well-read.
Katy: Yeah, she very well could be.
Micah: And what about Goldstein?
Katy: Well, that is a Jewish name. I don’t think I actually…
Andrew: Micah knows very well.
Eric: She did confirm… well, she singled out Anthony Goldstein as being a Jewish character on Twitter a couple years ago, maybe it was last summer. Somebody did ask her, “Hey, are there any Jewish characters at Hogwarts?” And Anthony Goldstein was her first reply.
Katy: And he’s a distant relative of Tina.
Eric: He’s a distant relative, yeah.
Katy: And I could read that other quick little thing that talks about the Jewish part if you want.
Eric: Yeah, sure.
Katy: The Book of Esther in the Old Testament tells the story of Queen Esther, the Jewish wife of the king of Persia. So this is the same person I was just talking about. The king’s advisor, Haman, persuaded the king to exterminate all the Jews in the realm. Warned of this plot by her cousin Mordecai, Esther revealed her Jewish ancestry and convinced the king to execute Haman instead. So I take this as more evidence that she’s Jewish, even though that hasn’t been specifically stated so far.
Eric: Yeah, our Tina.
Katy: Yeah, I think it would be cool if there were more Jewish characters in the wizarding world than we’ve seen so far.
Eric: I agree.
Micah: And let’s not forget where we’re headed in this series from a timeline standpoint. We’re headed back to Europe during a very tumultuous time, not just for people who are Jewish, but with other backgrounds as well, particularly as it relates to the Nazis. So could that play into this storyline with Queenie and Tina both potentially being Jewish?
Katy: That’s a really good point, especially because we want Queenie and Jacob to stay together, and it feels like at this point the only way for that to happen is for them to go abroad, because America is so backwards right now with their whole No-Maj relations thing.
Eric: If they think America is backwards, wait till they get to Europe.
Katy: [laughs] Oh, man.
Andrew: Good stuff.
Katy: And then away from her name – I’ll get away from that real quick – just the last one thing I wanted to say, because I noticed in my research that she is a half-blood. But her parents died of Dragon Pox, which is a disease that only affects witches and wizards, so it had to be one of her grandparents that was a No-Maj, but I’m like, how is this allowed? Because that was under the years of Rappaport’s Law, and why is Tina so against No-Majes if one of her grandparents was one?
Eric: Wait, so… okay, I need to wrap my brain around… so one of her parents would have had to… both her parents had to be witches and wizards, but one of them would have had to be Muggle-born in order for… wait.
Katy: Either a Muggle-born or they could have had a half and half…
Eric: Well, because she’s confirmed as being a half-blood somewhere.
Katy: Yes, on her identification card.
Eric: Ooh, okay.
Katy: There’s a little check box, and it’s got an X beside “Half-blood.”
Eric: Because Dragon Pox only affects witches and wizards.
Katy: Right. So at first I was like, “How can she be half-blood?” But when I looked it up, it can also apply to grandparents of the child in question.
Eric: Well, that’s really interesting.
Katy: So now I’m super curious about her extended family.
Andrew: Yeah. Katy, you did a lot of research here. You did all the work for us this week.
[Andrew and Katy laugh]
Andrew: Thank you!
Katy: I like being thorough when I can. You’re welcome.
Eric: Thank you so much.
Andrew: Well, I really like the porpentine/porcupine idea with her being standoffish. I mean, that makes a hell of a lot of sense. That’s really the impression you got from her watching this movie. And then, of course, the middle name with it being “searching out for evil,” the meaning there. Very interesting. I mean, it works so well that you’ve got to think that J.K. Rowling considered these things. Did her research.
Eric: So let me just ask everybody…
Micah: Try following that, Eric.
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: Yeah, yeah. I mean, my notes technically take up a little bit more page space, but they’re not as awesome.
Micah: Or bright.
[Katy laughs]
Eric: Yeah. I’m going to enlarge the font so they take up even more page space.
Micah: Well, I mean that from a color standpoint, not from an intellectual standpoint.
[Katy laughs]
Eric: Oh, well, I’ll also change the color in the document then. I’m going to make it a light blue.
Andrew: Size doesn’t matter, Eric.
[Katy laughs]
Eric: I know, I know, I know. Okay, but let’s get everyone’s overall thoughts on Tina. So she exists in Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them, the film. We were completely introduced to her in the movie. She goes on the adventure with the rest of the quartet, has a lot of strong, I think, character moments, but what are our overall thoughts getting in? And I mean, while I ask that question, I’m going last, so somebody else go.
Andrew: Well, I mean, you say she was completely introduced, but we did know about her, because we knew that Newt married her, so there was that.
Eric: Well, was she announced…? Was that in the foreword to the original Fantastic Beasts?
Katy: Yes.
Eric: Oh.
Andrew: Or maybe not the foreword, but the “About the Author.”
Eric: One of the… “About the Author,” okay.
Andrew: And when we found out she was cast, it was like, “Oh, okay. Well, this makes perfect sense.” But we didn’t assume that they would be married at the beginning of the movie, and as we ended up seeing, of course, they meet in this movie, along with Jacob at the same exact time. But seeing her in the movie – and I’ve been vocal about this on previous episodes – I didn’t really like her in the movie, because she is a porcupine. She is standoffish. She seemed a little flat to me. I think Honest Trailers put it brilliantly: She’s Bore-mione.
[Katy laughs]
Eric: Oh, God.
Micah: Wow. That’s a little harsh.
Eric: Bore-mione?
Andrew: Bore-mione. Boring Hermione.
Eric: Yeah, that’s really harsh.
Andrew: I know. It was.
Micah: But I think she was written that way intentionally, as being porcupine-like or standoffish, because of what she is going through, which we may not have full insight into, really, until they’re in that room in the bowels of MACUSA and she’s face to face with death. And it seemed like there were some memories of her parents, but then it gets to the moment where she is face to face with Mary Lou Barebone and what she was doing to Credence, and you see that there is this caring side of her that she basically lost her career because of an action she felt inherently compelled to take, and I think that speaks volumes about the type of person that she is. But I think just the way that she happens to be written in this first movie is that you’re kind of breaking through the surface a little bit with her, and Newt helps to do that more so, I think, than any of the other two characters, but there needs to be more time spent with her in future films in order for, I think, people to really warm up – to your point, Andrew – of just not feeling like there was much to her. I do think that was done on the part of Yates or Rowling or Heyman, and that’s how she was meant to come across.
Andrew: No, I do agree with that, and I’m sure we’re going to be learning a lot more. And to your point, I think in these future films we’ll see her arc will be, in part, getting her mojo back, getting her confidence back, getting the joy in life back, and Newt will probably be a part of that, because they have this romantic interest. And of course, one of the lightest moments we saw from her in the movie was at the very end where she jumps and clicks her heels, because there’s something going on between them too. So yeah, I think… while I do still state that she was boring, it was on purpose, and I think I previously would have said that she was written badly. I’ll take that back now.
Micah: Yeah, I don’t want to say she’s written badly; I would say she was written intentionally, and…
Andrew: Intentionally badly.
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: Intentionally flat.
Eric: Katy, what do you think?
Andrew: Yeah, as a woman.
Katy: [laughs] Okay, so my first impression of Tina after watching the movie was, “I do not like this person. I do not like this character. I do not relate to this character at all.” The more I’ve watched it, the more I’ve researched her, the more I’ve thought about her, the more I start to respect her, because I feel like that standoffishness, that barrier that she puts up, it’s because she’s had to be strong for so long. She had to deal with her parents dying at a young age; she had to look after her younger sister and make sure she had everything she needed. She’s been the breadwinner all their life, ever since whenever that happened. She’s a career woman; she’s very focused on being successful and living up to the expectations that she has there at MACUSA. So a lot of that… she’s hiding her feelings underneath all of that, because if she shows how susceptible and how vulnerable she actually is, people would not think she was as capable as she is. So I feel like… especially at that time period, women were very looked down upon and weren’t supposed to necessarily work outside the house; they were supposed to just pop out babies and cook all the time. So especially for that time period, I see her as a super strong, passionate person, with that determination for justice and her need to protect the weak, like Credence. So she can be very reserved and professional when she forces herself to be, but she also has that passion, and sometimes it comes out even when she doesn’t mean for it to, I feel like. She can’t help but say what’s on her mind and has trouble kind of sticking to societal norms. She’ll pop into MACUSA in a completely awkward situation where she should not have, but she’s just so excited because she thinks she’s found this important thing that she needs to communicate immediately that she can’t hold back. And I do that myself; when I get super excited about something, I just have to scream it at somebody, so I could relate to that part of her. And I feel like the more we get to know her, the more relatable she’ll become. But right now, that passion comes out a little bit awkward because of the way she’s having to hold back at the same time. But definitely a kindred spirit to Newt. I think they’re a great pair, and I think I’m going to like her a lot later on. It was just one of those, “Oh my God, she’s so not the same as me. I don’t know how to relate to this.” But I think it’ll be better later.
Eric: Yeah, for sure. Well, I’m going to mention how I feel about her, but first, I want to read some tweets, because we asked Twitter for reflections on Tina, and all of them fit into this category of general thoughts. So the Battlefront Podcast, Star Wars Battlefront Podcast, tweeted us, “I felt she was a little bland, but look forward to how J.K. Rowling will flesh her character out in the future. I think she can be a great character.” Christina Vorkos says, “My favorite. The fact that her sister outshines her makes her closed off and perfect for Newt. She has opportunities to grow. Lots of kindness.” Cody Niebuhr writes, “Tina is my favorite character. She has the most noticeable and apparent flaws out of the main four, so I think her character has the most room to grow over the course of the films. I think her character arc will be amazing, and by the shell be everyone’s favorite character.” I think that means by the end of it. Kay Burkett writes in all caps, “TINA IS A GODDESS.”
[Katy laughs]
Eric: Andrew DeFrank writes, “I found her to be a perfect character for the wizarding world. Love seeing a fellow Jew in HP as well. Her last scene was so great.” Horned Serpent House writes, “Great opening character. Very by the book, and trying to get into MACUSA’s good graces. Tina evolves beyond ‘by the book.'” And one final tweet here: Harriet Iliff writes, “I feel Tina is a witch who was ambitious in her becoming an Auror, and was crestfallen when she was let go. In this, I think many can relate.”
Micah: Absolutely. And just to go off of this tweet from Harriet, it ties into what Katy was saying, too, is she’s very mission-driven, and you see that throughout the course of the film. And eventually she sort of lightens up a bit, but most of the film is her spent trying to prove that Newt shouldn’t be here and is a threat, and she believes that by doing so, she’s going to be possibly reinstated, so it’s a bit ironic that the way that she becomes reinstated is in catching, by accident, Grindelwald. I think, though, that we see lighter moments of her; I mentioned when they were at MACUSA and she’s going through that memory scene, and we get the flashback to what happened with Credence. But also the Ilvermorny song; I know it was deleted from the film, but I feel like that would have been a little bit more of a humanizing moment for her…
Andrew: Probably much needed.
Micah: … because she does kind of lighten up a bit, she’s singing, she’s having a good time, and then… go ahead.
Andrew: I do like that one tweet that mentioned it looks like she has the most room to grow. That is a very, very, very good point.
Eric: Right.
Micah: But I feel like this switch was flipped a little bit once she kind of joined in with the rest of the team and the movie plays itself out. You mentioned the end scene. But even in that moment where she’s trying to get Credence to return from his Obscurus form, that shows another side to her, too, and I think… again, it’s not all bad; it’s just how she starts off in this film is not one where you’re immediately drawn to her.
Eric: So here’s… I could swear that J.K. Rowling on Twitter said at some point over the last 18 months that Porpentina was her favorite character, her favorite new character. I could absolutely swear this was a tweet, but I tried looking…
Andrew: I’m pretty sure she did.
Eric: Yeah, I’m trying. I was trying to find it; I couldn’t. If any of our listeners happen to know, or maybe afterwards we can look for it. But I just remember seeing that and having seen the movie first, because my initial reaction was, too, “Oh, she’s kind of just weird, maybe a little dull, maybe a little boring.” But when J.K. Rowling wrote that she was her favorite, I resolved to understand that there was more to the character. Now, however, I’ll also say, watching the special features of the Fantastic Beasts Blu-ray… I mentioned this a couple episodes ago, but J.K. Rowling talks about how she would write the script, and when she was working on the script, would pitch to David Heyman and David Yates, that the three of them were a cohesive unit, and they essentially in discussion, on set or otherwise, would break the script and work through every single aspect of the story, every character, every scene. Prior to casting, every single bit of the film was worked out in discussion with J.K. Rowling, David Heyman, and David Yates. How this is relevant to my feelings on Tina is that I think the issue was, to a certain extent, J.K. Rowling, Heyman, and Yates all completely understand why J.K. Rowling loves Tina so much. They all understand so much about what makes Tina work, why she’s secretly the best, why she’s awesome. But their issue is it doesn’t translate to the film that they’ve made. I think that they’re so inherently knowing of every aspect of Tina’s character through their lengthy discussion, and have simply fallen short, in making the film, at translating that to a general audience. Because when I was re-watching the film to make these notes, and every subsequent viewing of this film, when I look at Tina and specifically try and watch Tina’s character arc through this film, she is delightful. I like her more every single time I watch this film, and I don’t know why. It’s almost like… because when you’re first watching this film, she’s really off-putting. It’s really just weird. She’s popping her head around corners in the bank, going… who is she? What is she doing? But if you take into account everything that J.K. Rowling has said about Tina, her character, and everything that everyone else has said about her character, and if you actually objectively just watch all the Tina scenes in this movie in order, she’s actually great. You kind of have to work for it, but she is actually really great, and there’s a lot of really great things about her. Yeah, go on.
Andrew: It’s probably because you come to appreciate her intricacies more when you’re watching the little details, when you’re watching her pop her head around the corner, and you’re watching her spot Newt and decide to track him. I think those things are fun to watch. You appreciate it more. Yeah, I get what you’re saying.
Eric: It’s just that there’s so much else going on with the Niffler, and you’re watching the Niffler scene for the Niffler; I don’t think you’re watching it for anybody else. But it just… I think that perhaps part of Tina’s character… I mean, we mentioned the song. It was cut. It would have, I think, warmed audiences substantially to her… or not substantially; a little bit more to her. I think that Tina’s character is the one that actually just happens to be a little flawed at being gotten across by the filmmakers, if that’s a fair comment to make. I think there’s definitely more going on; it’s just that it didn’t translate the most? But also she is generally a more subdued sort of character. She is a little prickly, but I think she’s also got a great heart, and it’s just that she’s… as the film begins – we’ll talk about certain scenes and stuff – but she’s recently had a fall from grace, and I think that’s tough, when you’re Tina. She’s received a significant demotion and is no longer welcome in the inner circle of Aurors, and for her to stumble upon sort of this great conspiracy with Newt, with the Obscurus being released, and she eventually grows to find the answers to all of this stuff, she still struggles with just being accepted, and I think that for that reason her character is very much alike us as people, but also other characters in the series. Harry is an outsider, Luna is an outsider, and I think there are aspects of that that, if you dig deep enough, they’re absolutely 100% there.
Katy: And I think we love and overlook Newt’s awkwardness a bit more because we know he’s such an animal lover, and that immediately draws us to him and gives us an insight into his character, because animal lovers are just… they’re those cuddly people that want to cuddle all the fluffy, cuddly things, and they want to save them all from storm drains and trees.
[Eric laughs]
Katy: But with Tina, it’s more she’s looking out for kids, which is a great, great thing, but you don’t see that until later in the movie, so you don’t immediately see why she’s a little bit awkward herself, but she still has that great love for smaller, weaker things that need help; it’s just in a different way. She doesn’t have kids in a suitcase; she’s going out and trying to keep them from abuse.
Andrew: Yeah. And Newt, by the way, isn’t just an animal lover, but he prefers animals over human beings, I think.
Katy: Yes.
Andrew: So he’s a bit of an introvert. He is an introvert. And with Tina, we don’t really identify her as an animal lover, obsessive with beasts like Newt is, so it comes off a little stranger with her, but that’s okay. We’re establishing now that she’s good, she’s great, just as she is.
Micah: Just like The Holiday. A great movie.
[Katy laughs]
Andrew: She’s amazing. She’s my favorite character, actually.
Eric: No, but she is great. I mean, if you think… she lost her job, she got demoted because she actively went to stop Mary Lou Barebone from abusing – outright physically lashing – Credence in the past, and that’s crazy. So she loses control and attacks a Muggle, and there happens to be… I mean, there’s people present, right? So according to the film, there were other Muggles present. She says, “His mother beats him. She beats all those kids she’s adopted, but she seems to hate him the most.” And she says, “That’s how I lost my job. I went for her in front of a meeting of her crazy followers; they all had to be Obliviated. It was a big scandal.” So this heroic act of Tina’s is viewed as this big scandal, right? Big headache for the Ministry – or sorry, for MACUSA – to have to clean up, and that’s all it’s viewed. It’s not viewed as an act of heroism at all. And you know what? I bet that’s pretty upsetting. I bet that’s sort of demoralizing, and Tina actually has the wherewithal to have a sort of strength that she doesn’t let it destroy her, and she continues almost stubbornly to continue investigating Mary Lou Barebone even long after she’s been pulled off the case.
Katy: Well, we also learned from Pottermore that MACUSA does not have a relationship with the Muggle law enforcement. In Britain, we know that they do; the Prime Minister and the Minister for Magic actually talk to each other.
Eric: Such a great chapter.
Katy: Yes, it is. [laughs] But that’s a no-no in America, because of Rappaport’s Law and all the craziness that’s gone on over the years. So I feel like Tina would have no other person to go to. I mean, I guess she could just act like she was a Muggle, go to the Muggle police, and try to get them to do something about it, but…
Eric: The abuse?
Katy: Yeah, maybe. But they don’t have that same relationship, so maybe she would be scared to do that, because maybe they would consider that interfering as well, and she’d still have the same end result. And if you see a child being abused, you don’t wait around and go to the police. If you’re right there, you do something about it. You just do, if you’re a decent human being. So yeah, I feel really bad for her that she was demoted for that.
Eric: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Micah: And you mentioned the fact that Newt is an introvert. I would say that so is Tina, and there are aspects of both Queenie and Jacob that could fall in that category. I think generally they’re more in the extrovert category, just given their personalities, but I think they all have that aspect to them where they’re outsiders, and we’ve naturally seen outsiders kind of gravitate toward each other as we did in Potter, but I would say it’s pretty much the same case here with these four. I mean, Queenie seems to have her own insecurities, and probably with all that she deals with from a Legilimency standpoint, very much an outsider, despite the fact that she can hear everything that’s going on. Jacob, given everything that he’s gone through at the very start of the film, a bit of an outsider, doesn’t seem to have too many friends in New York. And we’ve discussed Newt; we’ve talked about Tina. I think they kind of naturally just all mesh very well together.
Eric: Yeah, and although they are all outsiders – and I think it’s a good point to bring that up – Tina is actually surprisingly the closest thing to an insider we have in this film, because she works for MACUSA, she’s in the inner circle of Aurors, or at least has potential access to them. She’s the only character with a working knowledge of Graves, who ends up being the main villain in the film. And I’m thinking of particularly right before the speakeasy scene, they’re looking for Newt’s final beast, right? They don’t know about the Occamy, but they’re looking for the Demiguise, and it’s Tina who proposes going to The Blind Pig, and she thinks of… she gets Gnarlak. She says, “He’s interested in anything he can sell. He would be a perfect informant.” That drives the plot forward. She has the answer, and it’s due to her police work. And when they get there… it’s almost like I need a Twitter account that just tweets, “Here’s your daily reminder of how much of a badass Tina is.”
[Katy laughs]
Eric: Because when they get to The Blind Pig, she says… there’s a quote from the movie: “I’ve arrested half of the people in here.”
Katy: Yeah, and she’s not scared at all. [laughs]
Eric: No, she’s not scared at all! They all just side-eye her, but they keep their distance. So it’s just… it’s really kind of sharp, and she is extremely valuable to the quartet and to MACUSA, because she is part of this group that catches Grindelwald at the end, too, and I think it’s just that maybe it’s a real to-be-applauded attempt from J.K. Rowling to really showcase some of these more reserved characters and show how introverts can still be heroes, or people who are a little strange, a little weird, a little quiet, can really have some of the truest and most applaudable character bits inside them that we should all aspire to.
Katy: Well said. [applauds] I like it.
Eric: Thanks. The other thing, though, talking about how much of a frequent badass she is, she really holds her own on the street with Graves. This was a scene I had forgotten, or a little bit of the scene that I had forgotten, but when the Obscurial is finally… when Credence is blowing all the way across the city, and is in his full anger state, and Newt and Tina are separated because Newt is Apparating to each building top, trying to talk Credence down, Tina confronts Graves. And at this point she knows something’s off, because she’s been in the room when Graves kind of tipped his hand on the Obscurial thing and sentenced them to death, and she confronts Graves, and the two of them go into this epic battle. It’s Harry/Voldemort, right? There’s lightning, and it connects to each other, and frankly, Tina does not get her ass beat. She does not get her rear end handed to her; she holds her own, and this is striking to me, because not only is it Graves, who’s the Head of the Auror Department, who’s fighting her, but it’s actually Grindelwald. And there’s something to be said about, Katy, what you said earlier, whether Grindelwald really wants to kill a fellow witch or a fellow wizard. Maybe he’s even holding back, because at this point he still thinks he might slip away quietly, unless he kills a witch or wizard, so maybe he’s deciding not to kill her. But frankly, he’s throwing a bus at her. I think he’s pretty involved in trying to stop her permanently, and she holds her own in that fight.
Katy: Yeah, her and Newt he probably is trying to kill at this point, because he already tried and they got away.
Eric: That’s a good point.
Katy: And they’re kind of on to him, so I could see him trying to kill them for sure.
Andrew: Yeah, it’s clear that those two are going to be in his way, so they have no reason to be alive right now, even though they are wizards.
Katy: And Newt holds his own on the train tracks, oh my God. He was basically whipping him with magic over and over. [laughs]
Andrew: Yeah, these are all hints of what’s to come in terms of battle. I mean, they’re not going to get worse; they’re only going to get better in terms of their skills as they get ready to fight, with Dumbledore.
Eric: Yeah. Well, and Newt attempts to talk Credence down, and it sort of works, because Newt does have intense advanced knowledge that perhaps nobody else has of how an Obscurial latches on to its host, right? I mean, he offers to help Credence, he says, “I want to help you,” and he’s the only person that we know of who’s successfully removed an Obscurial, although the girl died. But he gets interrupted because Grindelwald comes, but it’s only…
Micah: Supposedly.
Eric: Yeah, but when Credence is really angry then, and Grindelwald is trying to talk to him, he’s not listening; he’s only making the situation worse. And in comes Tina, and she says, “Credence, no, don’t do this, please,” and Newt immediately realizes a shift in the creature; he says, “Keep talking, Tina. Keep talking to him; he’ll listen to you.” He’s listening. There’s something Newt sees. “Oh, something’s changed fundamentally. He’s listening to you. This is the path. He might calm down if you just keep talking to him.” And that’s entirely based on the merits of Tina as a character and the previous relationship, whatever it was that she had with Credence, where she saved him from abuse that one time. And so there’s just so much in the movie that’s a direct example of how cool she is, and how good a person, and how strong a character she is, but you kind of have to look for it. It’s there, but you’ve just got to see it. So much else is going on.
Katy: I wonder if part of that, her being able to talk Credence down, is due to her kind of raising Queenie for a while, because when you’re the oldest, at least from what I’ve heard – I’m not the oldest, and my parents are still living – but in situations like that, the older sibling that’s taking care of the younger ones usually has to grow up really fast, and they kind of become that mother role, even though they are not an actual mother. So I feel like she had this skill that she could talk to this young man in a way that a mother could, in a loving way that he had never had, or at least not since he was a kid, ever since he was taken away from his parents. So I think he was responding to that, and Newt saw that, because that’s kind of the way he talks to his animals, as he’s their mummy, kind of like Hagrid. So he was like, “Hey, look, it’s working, you’re doing it, you’re doing a great job, continue, continue.” So yeah, I wonder if that had something to do with it.
Andrew: Yeah, that makes sense.
Micah: I agree.
Andrew: I mean, when you’re in the mother role, you’re in the father role, you’re hopefully trying to take control of situations and resolve them in the best way possible. So yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Eric: So it’s…
Micah: And I also… sorry.
Eric: No, go ahead.
Micah: I also think that there’s a natural connection between the two of them, going off what you said, Katy, just because they both have somewhat similar backgrounds, in the sense that she’s clearly lost her parents to illness, but he has been taken away from his parents. So I think there’s sort of a natural bond between the two of them, and when she sees what’s happening to him, she… well, she reacts probably how many of us would react in that situation, but I think maybe there’s glimpses of herself or somebody that she knows that she’s seeing in that situation, and it just makes her all the more motivated to attack Mary Lou.
Eric: Yeah. She does the right thing. Even after the Erumpent scene, when Jacob and Newt go into the case and she’s hiding on the bridge above, she takes them in. She takes them into MACUSA and interrupts the International Confederation meeting, because it’s the right thing to do, her own job consequences be damned. So she’s very brave for doing that.
Katy: Oh, yeah.
Eric: And a couple other things I want to bring up, but generally wrapping up my notes. J.K. Rowling has some fun with the dialogue that Tina says by mentioning these characters that are references to… sort of the equivalent of “Merlin’s beard,” but for America. So she has this quote talking about the Niffler; she says, “Why in the name of Deliverance Dane did you let that thing loose?” Deliverance Dane, I think, is explained on Pottermore, but it’s an old American reference. It’s the American…
Katy: She’s from the Salem witch trials.
Eric: Salem witch trials, there you go. And then the other quote: “Mercy Lewis, what is that?” Talking about the Murtlap. And Mercy Lewis, another historic or J.K. Rowling-fabricated American wizard sort of saying/expression. This is all heavily researched, but it goes…
Katy: Yeah, both of those are from the Salem witch trials.
Eric: Okay, thank you. It goes by so quickly because it’s just dialogue, but she’s the only one who has these… she’s the only opportunity for J.K. Rowling to throw in any of this fun stuff, and it’s totally in there.
Katy: Love it.
Eric: And I think we can all agree that her interaction with her landlady, Mrs. Esposito, is worth lauding and applauding.
Katy: [laughs] Yes.
Eric: “That you, Tina?” “Yes, Mrs. Esposito.” “Are you alone?” “Always alone, Mrs. Esposito.” Like, come on. You tell me that Katherine Waterston does not pull that off perfectly.
[Katy laughs]
Andrew: She’s not “always alone” for long.
[Eric and Katy laugh]
Andrew: She’s going to be busy these next few years, next two decades.
Eric: I agree to thinking it was weird that Queenie and Jacob get the kiss, and Newt and Tina, who we know are going to end up married together, don’t kiss. It’s such a…
Katy: They’re too shy.
Andrew: Well, I mean, it was kind of… it would have been expected, I think, because we knew that they were going to end up married, so maybe that’s what J.K. Rowling was considering.
Eric: Yeah, defying expectations.
Andrew: “Let’s not make it crazy obvious.” Exactly.
Eric: Yeah, exactly. So I like that it’s a little bit more subtle, and it’s a little bit more nuanced, and that’s the thesis statement I have for Tina. She’s great. It’s a little bit more subtle; it’s a little bit more nuanced there. So I have here to end… here’s some quotes from J.K. Rowling and Katherine as well. So Katherine Waterston says… or Alison Sudol, who plays Queenie, says, “Tina and Queenie are each other’s family, they’re each other’s everything.” And then Katherine adds, “You sort of feel their relationship more than you see it. When we’re preparing the meal, there’s a little banter that’s very everyday and lived-in and comfortable… it is a kind of, what I would describe as sort of, witchy way that sisters engage with one another.” Okay.
Andrew: The witchy way.
Eric: The witchy way. So clearly they spent some time on the set working on their chemistry, or they had it. But Katherine and Alison both have very nice things to say. That’s on the special features, by the way. There’s a segment just on the Goldstein sisters; I think it’s called “The Goldstein Sisters.” J.K. Rowling says in that segment as well, “Tina is pretty brittle. She’s quite brittle. She’s quite intense. She’s in a precarious society. Her desire to keep wizards secret is protected.” And I think this is a furthering of that same quote: “She loves the rules. She wants to stick by them. She’s really proud to be part of MACUSA and really dreams of succeeding there. But the way that she pursues the things she’s concerned about tends to never work out quite right. But she has good instincts; she’s not a total disaster.”
Katy: That’s a good way to put it.
Eric: Yeah. So I think really that our initial feeling… any read of this film is, I think, accurate enough; it’s just about how you personally feel about the character. But I would argue that there’s more to the character – hopefully our discussion has shown that – but there’s certainly more that’s coming, and J.K. Rowling has very grand plans for Tina, in addition to what I’m sure is plans for everybody.
Andrew: I feel better about Tina after today’s discussion.
Eric: I’m glad.
Katy: Yay!
Andrew: You have changed me.
Eric: Woo!
Andrew: I even have a crush on Tina.
[Eric and Katy laugh]
Eric: Do we have any final thoughts, though, from anybody else? Because I was talking for a while there.
Andrew: No, I think… in all seriousness, I do kind of feel different about her, particularly the point of leaving her such a mystery, leaving her sad. And from what we’ve heard from J.K. Rowling, I am now excited to see what lies ahead for her, because she could develop more than any other character in this series, even Jacob. Or at least, as much as Jacob.
Katy: I’ve come a long way too. When you guys emailed me and said this was the topic, I was like, “Oh no, she’s my least favorite of the quartet.”
[Andrew and Katy laugh]
Katy: But once I really started delving into her and trying to understand some of her motivations, it made me like her so much more, and respect her so much more, and understand that even though she and I are very different people in how we approach the world, that doesn’t mean her way is a bad way; it’s just a different way.
Eric: My challenge now will be re-watch the film with these thoughts in mind and see if you don’t in fact really come out really liking Tina as I have, because it’s real crazy. It’ll mess your mind up how much you like her.
[Katy laughs]
Micah: Well, what do you say to the person who may be interested in going to see the next film, but may have only seen this movie one time, and just has that initial impression?
Eric: Oh, you’re wondering if they’ll sort of be left behind because Tina will be so advanced and so different and so changed?
Micah: Well, you’re saying for people to go back and watch again, but I would say the majority of people who saw this film are not going to go back and watch it again. They may have gone to the movie theater one time.
Eric: I think based on the film, Tina is still in sort of a very subdued place. Again, there’s no ending kiss, right? So I think you’re still… you’re not going to have missed anything with Tina. At the very end, she says she’s been reinstated in her position, so I think within the first 15 minutes of the next film, if Tina is in the next film, we’ll see her as an Auror again, but that’ll be the natural sort of pickup point anyway. Really, she’s sort of circled back around, and all she’s done in this film is regained her status at being able to be an Auror, which she was sort of playing at being anyway. So it’s sort of a lateral… she’s developed a lot as a person, but ultimately I don’t think it’ll be jarring to start the next film and see her be an Auror, because that was at least mentioned at the end of the first film that she’s going back to doing that.
Katy: And hopefully she’ll have more confidence this time around as well.
Eric: Yeah, because she was right, darn it.
Andrew: I think she will. Yeah, well, and like I said, she’s been… we’re going to see her get her mojo back, and I think we’ll see that now that she helped take down Grindelwald… temporarily.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: And that she’s becoming an Auror again.
Eric: Maybe all that confidence will go out the window when he escapes, as he must.
Andrew: Right.
Katy: [laughs] I’m going to blame Seraphina, not Tina.
Eric: Yeah, exactly.
Andrew: Good idea.
Katy: I don’t like her.
Eric: Yeah, well, we’re going to talk about her eventually on this show.
Katy: Cool.
Andrew: As always, you know what to do if you have feedback. Send it in to MuggleCast@gmail.com or use our feedback line, our voicemail line. Just visit MuggleCast.com; click on “Send us an owl.” You can get all the info over there.
Eric: Tweet us if we’ve changed your mind on Tina.
Voicemails
Andrew: And speaking of the voicemail line… which, by the way, is 920-3-MUGGLE. It’s a US number; 920-368-4453. Let’s listen to a few voicemails now. Jumping back to Queenie, we have this from Michael. Or maybe not Michael. Google Translate just… nope, this is Andrew. Here we go.
[Katy laughs]
[Voicemail plays]
“Hi, MuggleCast. This is Andrew Iskander, listening from San Jose, California. Just want to say I love your guys’ show so much. It’s been a part of my life for many, many years, since high school, which was ages ago. But wanted to thank you guys, and also just got around to listening to some of your shows. I’ve been backed up with work, but I listened to the Queenie episode, and I listened to the episode or the chapter reading for ‘Dueling Club,’ and I couldn’t help but put the two together and wonder if Queenie herself is really difficult to duel against, because maybe she can actually know what’s coming before somebody sends a spell her way, or maybe the opponent, knowing this, has a difficult time because they have to practice Occlumancy while dueling her, while trying to win the duel at the same time. Would like to know your thoughts on this. Thanks again, and keep doing what you’re doing. Bye.”
[Voicemail ends]
Eric: That’s incredible.
Katy: Wow.
Andrew: Yeah, I really like this idea, because I think, getting back to our point about how is Queenie going to play a role in future movies, we speculated if she can read people’s minds, that would be helpful. Well, reading people’s minds to know what spell they’re about to cast would be especially helpful in a duel. [laughs]
Katy: No kidding.
Eric: Yeah, it’s possible some of that is more instinctual. If you’re just more instinctual about the spells you cast, the split second in which you decide to cast one spell over the other, and are weighing the odds, or the different choices, is there really enough time for her to hear, and then also comprehend, and also respond? But it’s a tantalizing theory. I love it. We’ll have to see all the different ways… I mean, I think we’ll just only see more and more and more examples of how awesome it is to be her and how she can use her power to help the group.
Andrew: All right, here’s another voicemail. This person’s a little disgruntled. She just jumps right into it.
[Voicemail plays]
“Can we all be just clear that Cursed Child is going to get a sequel, because it’s J.K. Rowling, and she’ll stretch anything out, to be honest? She was like, ‘Harry Potter is done,’ and then she made… ‘I’ll never say never, but really basically never,’ and then since Warner Bros. were making a ton of money, they were like, ‘Yo, Jo, let’s do another thing.’ And they’re probably going to make it into a film. But if they do make a sequel, how will that really work with Broadway kind of stuff, like as a play? Has there ever been a play…? Well, I don’t know. I’m just rambling. Okay, bye.”
[Voicemail ends]
Andrew: [laughs] So this listener seems convinced that they’re going to be doing a Cursed Child sequel as a play. I actually disagree with her completely.
Katy: Oh, please, God, no. Please no. [laughs]
Andrew: No, it’s not happening. And we don’t have to waste our time discussing this, because there’s less than zero chance. [laughs]
Eric: I think there’s sort of a false…
Micah: There’s always a chance.
Eric: There’s a fallacy of false equivocation happening here. I really genuinely do not believe that Rowling… that it’s a money grab, or that her constant wavering or saying that Harry Potter was done, then saying “Never say never,” then saying… very cynical, very cynical. But I think that really it comes out of a place of love. But I will agree that the… how will a Cursed Child sequel work as a play? I don’t think the first Cursed Child works as a play, so I don’t know.
[Katy laughs]
Eric: But there are actually plays, stage plays, that have been sequels. I have a list of them right here, but it’s too long, so I won’t say anything. But if you Google plays that were sequels, yeah.
Andrew: All right, next voicemail.
[Voicemail plays]
“Hi, Muggle boys. This is Rachel from New York. I geek freaked last week because you guys played my comment on air. Freaked out! But I had to clarify two things. A, Eric was totally right in thinking I said ‘Stupid listener,’ because I was just teaching you guys some slang, giving you some lingo. You know how in Boston, it’s like, ‘Wicked awesome’? New York is ‘Stupid cool.’ It’s just stupid awesome, stupid cool. Now you know. And then the second thing… okay, this is a tiny bit PG-13, and maybe I’m not allowed to say this. However, if Grindelwald and Dumbledore were unrequited, and it wasn’t really a thing, does that mean that Dumbledore is a virgin? Because that’s a bummer. [voice in background says, ‘No.’] I feel like he transcends kind of… like he’s above that and beyond that emotionally, or whatever. But at the same time, dude, bummer. Anyway, thought I would share. Sorry if I’m too racy for your show, but I wanted to share, because that kind of blew my mind. Anyway, you guys are awesome. Love much. Stupid awesome. Bye.”
[Voicemail ends]
Eric: Aw.
Andrew: Stupid awesome.
Micah: Did somebody say “No” in the background when she asked that question?
Andrew: I know! Wasn’t that hilarious?
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: That was my favorite part. Yeah, so she was wondering… Rachel was thinking that maybe Dumbledore could be a virgin. I don’t know. I don’t think so. I think she brings up a good point; Grindelwald could be unrequited, but that doesn’t mean he was hung up on Grindelwald forever and never shacked up with anyone.
Eric: It’d be really sad to think that Dumbledore never experienced physical intimacy, but it’s also a bit like thinking about your parents having physical intimacy.
[Katy laughs]
Eric: I don’t really want to think about it, you know?
Micah: How old was he?
Andrew: Well over 100. Why, Micah?
Micah: I’m just saying, that’s a long time.
Andrew: Right, to go without… right, I got you. I got what you’re throwing.
Micah: [laughs] A century and a half.
Katy: I don’t know, though. He was hung up on Grindelwald until 1946 when he faced him, so I could see that maybe he is.
Eric: And maybe still after then, because he kept Grindelwald alive; he didn’t kill him.
Katy: Oh, yeah, yeah. Definitely yes.
Eric: Only Voldemort kills him.
Andrew: Steve Carell stars in “The 130-Year-Old Virgin.” Coming soon to theaters.
[Eric and Katy laugh]
Andrew: All right, here’s easily one of the strangest voicemails we’ve ever received.
[Voicemail plays]
“Hi, it’s Marguerite from San Francisco. I was just calling to say that you guys are really cool, and so I was listening to… I think it was another episode the other day, and it was around the tenth anniversary of ‘The Mysterious Ticking Noise,’ and so you guys went on and said that next year you would do it. So I don’t know if you’re still going to do it, but I’ve been grilling you online, I will find you, and if you don’t do it, I will kill you all. That’s not a good thing to say, but whatever. [laughs] Really like what you guys do. It’s nice. I do it while doing my high school homework, so yeah. And I’m not actually going to kill you guys, just so you know. And this is getting long. Okay, bye.”
[Voicemail ends]
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: Oh my God!
Katy: That’s a Slytherin right there.
Andrew: She threatens to kill us, and then there’s this nervous giggle where I think she might realize that maybe we’re going to call the cops on her if she doesn’t clarify that she’s kidding.
[Andrew and Katy laugh]
Andrew: She kind of worms her way out of it.
Eric: All I know is I’m not setting foot in San Francisco until we record our ‘Ticking Noise.’
[Katy laughs]
Andrew: Tick-tock, tick-tock… yeah, so I forget this, but apparently we agreed to do this?
Eric: We’ve got to find that episode. It’s easy. It’s a blast. It’s just an utter, utter blast to do.
Andrew: Just saying “Tick-tock”?
Eric: Snape, Snape, Severus Snape… Dumbledore!
[Katy laughs]
Eric: It’s just like that.
Andrew: There you go. Eric just did it.
Micah: Very well done, Eric.
Eric: Harry Potter, Harry Potter! Harry Potter, Harry Potter!
Andrew: [laughs] Wouldn’t Neil be annoyed if we did our…? Well, maybe he wouldn’t. That’s the guy who made it.
Eric: Neil is real cool. Neil came to… he comes to the Harry Potter conventions. He’s a cool guy.
Andrew: I’m always intimidated. I’ve never gone up to him. I’m always feeling starstruck, because he’s a big deal.
Eric: He is a big deal, but it’s so… you know what? He doesn’t talk about it, you know?
Andrew: [laughs] “He doesn’t talk about it.”
Eric: He’s there, and you can…
Andrew: He plays it cool.
Eric: Yeah, yeah, he plays it real, real cool. Because I went up to him… I knew him when he was in a band called Lemon Demon. I think it was just him; he was a band called Lemon Demon, and they do a really cool… I have his album called Damn Skippy, and I really like it, and I went up to him at the last LeakyCon. I was like, “Hey, man, you don’t know me, but I know you.” [laughs] It was a very Star Trek moment. I was just like, “I love Damn Skippy,” and he was like, “Oh, cool, thank you, thank you.” So yeah, he’s real approachable. Real cool guy.
Andrew: All right. Well, finally, one more, and this is a bit of a Chicken Soup for the MuggleCast Soul.
[Voicemail plays]
“Hello, MuggleCast. My name is Robert Pellechio. I am a fellow podcast host, I host a monthly podcast called ‘The Trumpet’ for my theater company, and I just want to say that I would not have the confidence to host my own podcast without years of listening to your discussions of my favorite series. You have accompanied many, many trips, many house cleaning days, and I never get tired of hearing you, and… bleh, I’m sorry, I’m messing up. [laughs] But I just want to say thank you for everything you do, and thank you for always being there for us fans. And also, a message for Eric: I’m also a Starbucks manager. The reason that Venti is the large Starbucks cup is because Venti is Italian for 20, and it’s a 20 ounce. Tall is the small because Tall used to be the biggest size we had. I do not have an answer for why Grande is the medium. Thank you again, MuggleCast, for everything, and keep up the great work.”
[Voicemail ends]
Andrew: Thanks, man. We appreciate that. And let me just say… well, first of all, he sounded great. I don’t know what kind of really nice phone he was recording on, but that was the best-sounding voicemail ever.
Micah: Well, isn’t he a podcaster, though?
Andrew: Yes.
Eric: I bet his podcast, “The Trumpet,” sounds amazing.
Andrew: [laughs] Probably.
Eric: Everyone should go listen to “The Trumpet.” Yeah, what was this gentleman’s name?
Andrew: Robert. And I just want to also say it’s okay to mess up on these voicemails. Everybody does it. We frequently get people calling in, and then stopping, and then recording another voicemail.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Andrew: Obviously, we only play the one that they completed. We don’t play the messed-up ones. No worries.
Eric: That’s so funny. Robert, thank you for clearing up the Starbucks thing. I have another quandary for you, Robert: I went into Starbucks on Tuesday looking for the Unicorn Frappe, which I had not yet had after all…
Andrew: I know the answer to this one. It was a limited time offer.
Eric: Ugh. But when’s it coming back?
Andrew: Oh. Probably never, because like a unicorn, you see it once and that’s it.
Eric: I heard it was mango-flavored. Did you have one? Was it mango-flavored?
Andrew: No. I tried to order it; it was sold out. Big hit.
Eric: See? Same thing.
Katy: I heard that it tasted like cough syrup. I didn’t have one, but several of my friends said that, so I don’t think you missed much.
Eric: It’s just my favorite thing is the meme where it’s that Voldemort face, and it’s like, “Once the moment the blood touches your lips of the unicorn, you will have a half life, a cursed life.” And then it’s a picture of the Frappuccino, which is very rainbow.
Katy: [laughs] How did I miss that meme?
Micah: Eric, actually, I heard that it tasted like earwax, grass, and earthworm.
[Eric and Katy laugh]
Andrew: Gluten-free.
Eric: Speaking of food, we didn’t bring back the hot dog, and in the Google chat, Michaela Brown asked just a moment ago, “Where does the hot dog come in?!”
[Katy laughs]
Eric: So we forgot to mention… I didn’t write this; this is in the notes, though, but I assume it’s… so we first meet Tina when she’s munching on a hot dog, and I noted that her only topping appears to be yellow mustard. And it’s outside of Mary Lou Barebone’s public demonstration at the bank. She’s clearly undercover since she is not supposed to be there, but during her detection, she bumps into both Newt and Jacob, who pass her in the crowd.
Andrew: Yeah, so that’s why we asked the hot dog question.
Eric: Yeah, but she likes mustard on her hot dogs, and that’s pretty cool. That’s very Chicago style. She’d have a home in Chicago.
Andrew: And on that note, that does it for MuggleCast Episode 320. Katy, thank you so much for joining us. Why don’t you tell us about the podcast that you do?
Eric: Yeah!
Andrew: Give it a plug.
Katy: Okay, thanks. Well, me and a couple of friends started our own podcast about He-Man and She-Ra, the ’80s cartoons, called Masters Cast, and we actually started it just two months after you guys started MuggleCast. And yes, we were heavily…
Andrew: Oh, wow, so you’ve been at it for a while.
Katy: Yeah, but we were heavily influenced and inspired by you guys. You gave us the idea to do it.
Andrew: Oh, awesome.
Katy: We don’t release episodes nearly as often as y’all do, and it’s actually been more than a year since our last one, oops, but we have not given up yet.
[Andrew laughs]
Katy: And then four years ago, another friend and I started a podcast dedicated to Rainbow Brite, which is another ’80s cartoon, my number one fandom, and all of that is just to say that I understand the labor of love that podcasting is, and I’m super impressed and proud of you guys for sticking with it for so long.
Andrew: Aw, thank you. Thank you so much for being a longtime listener.
Eric: What’s your Rainbow Brite…?
Andrew: Yeah, what’s the name of that show?
Katy: It’s called Brite Cast. So yeah, Masters Cast…
Eric: B-R-I-T-E?
Katy: It is, thank you. So many people spell it wrong. It is B-R-I-T-E Cast. And if you just go to RainbowBrite.net, which is my website, you can find links to all of that.
Eric: You have RainbowBrite.net?
Katy: And .org. I would have .com if I could.
Andrew: Well, Micah is actually a huge fan of Rainbow Brite, so you should have him on the show sometime.
Micah: That and The Holiday.
Katy: [laughs] You’re welcome on anytime.
Micah: Between the two, I can never get enough time in the day.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Micah has TheHoliday.net and TheHoliday.org as well.
[Katy laughs]
Micah: It’s true. It’s very true.
Andrew: And Katy’s not kidding when she says Rainbow Brite is her number one fandom. We’ve seen her room when she’s been in the Google Patreon hangout, and it is decked out in Rainbow Brite.
Eric: It’s famous.
Katy: That’s only one part of the room.
[Andrew and Katy laugh]
Eric: That we’ve seen. The other part is still just more Rainbow Brite stuff. Actually, it’s really impressive, truly. I read the news articles written about you, Katy, and I’m floored.
Katy: Aww. [laughs]
Eric: Yeah, you’ve got to look up this person. She’s great.
Katy: Look up the Rainbow Land Museum. Google that and you should find it.
Eric: Yeah, your house is a national landmark.
[Andrew and Katy laugh]
Andrew: Wow. All right, then. Well, and feel free to check out us at MuggleCast.com. No rainbows on the site; not much color, to be honest. A lot of brown, lot of yellow. And please support us on Patreon; we would really appreciate your support. Patreon.com/MuggleCast. You can also be like Katy and be on the show one day by joining the Slug Club level; that’s at $10 per month. If that’s too much money for you, we understand. We have two other levels at $2 a month and $5 a month, and you can get various benefits, including ad-free versions of this podcast and bonus MuggleCast, so a whole lot of stuff we’re doing over there.
Micah: Chapter readings. Southern Hagrid.
[Katy laughs]
Andrew: Chapter reading. I’m due to record. And for everybody, we have the voicemail line. Don’t forget about that.
Eric: 920-3-MUGGLE.
Andrew: Oh man, he already has it memorized. Yeah, 1-920-3-MUGGLE. I recently memorized the MuggleCast P.O. box. Hold on, let me try to do it.
Eric: Okay.
Andrew: 4044 North Lincoln Avenue, P.O. box #144, Chicago, IL 60618.
Eric: Yep.
Katy: Nice one.
Eric: Well, don’t write P.O. box, because some addresses get wonky, but do number #144. But yes, it’s absolutely 100% what you said.
Andrew: I had to write it down on about 15 different envelopes, and at that point it just clicked into my head.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: It’s with me forever.
Eric: I love it.
Andrew: All those fours help.
Eric: We have to renew that, actually. I’ll talk to you about that later.
Andrew: Okay. Well, that’s why we have a Patreon.
[Katy laughs]
Eric: It’s been a year already! Yay!
Andrew: Hard to believe, hard to believe. All right, everybody, we’ll see you next week for Episode 321. Goodbye.
Eric, Katy, and Micah: Bye.