Transcript for MuggleCast Episode #380, Privet Drive Payoff (HBP Chapter 3, Will And Won’t)
Show Intro
[Show music plays]
Andrew Sims: Welcome to MuggleCast Episode 380. I’m Andrew.
Eric Scull: I’m Eric.
Micah Tannenbaum: I’m Micah.
Andrew: Micah, we missed you. Welcome back, Micah.
Micah: Thank you.
Andrew: Micah Back-enbaum. He’s back, y’all.
[Andrew and Micah laugh]
Eric: And another year older!
Andrew: Oh, yeah, happy birthday!
Micah: Thank you, Andrew.
Andrew: What’d you do?
Micah: Low-key. As I think most people as you get older, unless they’re those milestones, you kind of just keep it low-key.
Andrew: Yeah, that’s true. Plus, you were traveling a lot, so you just wanted a night in. Am I right?
Micah: Yeah, you are right. I was in Orlando for ten days of working, and it was a great time. But Orlando, as many of us know, in the summertime, in August, is a cool 90 plus degrees, if not more than that with the humidity, so I’m happy to be back in New York. Today it’s a little bit cooler here; it’s in the 70s and nice and breezy, so I’m happy to be back. I’m happy to be back on the show too. I saw you named an episode after me, talking about…
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: Did you listen to it?
Micah: I did. I’ve listened to about probably 30 minutes or so of it.
Andrew: Okay.
Micah: You were wondering what my voice sounded like when I was younger.
Andrew: Yes. Did we get it right? [laughs]
Micah: Possibly? I’d have to go back and look at some home videos and see.
Andrew: I was just going to say, let’s dig out some old home videos so we can get the truth.
Micah: Yeah, yeah.
Andrew: [laughs] Well, that’s good. Glad you had a peaceful birthday, and we’re glad to have you back.
Micah: Thanks.
Andrew: And we have somebody new on the show this week, although I think you did make a cameo. Kendra, welcome to the show.
Kendra: Hey, thanks for having me.
Andrew: Yeah. She writes for Hypable; we’ve been friends for a long time. Kendra put together the “Never Sever Us” book for me.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Andrew: Remember that?
Eric: Oh, that old thing.
[Andrew and Kendra laugh]
Andrew: My Secret Santa gift. Yeah, it was the best gift I’ve ever received.
Kendra: Ah, thank you.
Andrew: Yeah, and we wanted to have you on because I know you know your Harry Potter. You write some Harry Potter stuff for Hypable. You know your stuff, and we hadn’t had you on for a full episode before, so welcome to the show. How long have you been a Harry Potter fan?
Kendra: I think I started… my grade three teacher, I think, started reading the books to us. So I had received Chamber of Secrets as a Christmas gift the year prior and I didn’t read it, and then she started reading them to us in class, and then I was hooked.
Andrew: So you received the second book in the series? Why didn’t that person buy you the first book?
Kendra: Well, we’ll have to ask Santa Claus that, I guess.
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: Damn it, Santa. Don’t you know?
Kendra: His mistake.
Andrew: [laughs] That’s funny. And so what is your favorite book and movie?
Kendra: My favorite book… probably Deathly Hallows, just because it ties everything together. But up until Deathly Hallows, it was always Prisoner of Azkaban because of the Marauders and stuff. And the movies… I always really like the even-numbered ones for some reason, so 2, 4, 6, and 8.
[Andrew laughs]
Kendra: So Half-Blood Prince, the book we’re talking about now, is one of my favorites.
Eric: That’s the Star Trek rule. The even-numbered ones are the better ones.
Kendra: Yeah. [laughs]
Andrew: I was just thinking maybe you have a thing for even numbers, but it’s just a coincidence?
Kendra: No, they just… I like them better for some reason.
Andrew: Oh, okay. [cheering] 2-4-6-8, what do we appreciate? Thoooose Harry Potter books!
[Kendra laughs]
Andrew: Anyway, we have a lot to get to today. Since we were off for a couple weeks, we have some Fantastic Beasts news to catch up on. There’s one new beast – maybe two beasts, if you count a baby version of a Niffler as a new beast – and Eddie Redmayne has made some interesting comments. And then, as Kendra said, we’re going to get into Half-Blood Prince Chapter 3 today. Finally, we return to Harry’s point of view. But first… [laughs] Eric is bolding it. I didn’t miss it; I was just previewing what’s coming up.
Eric: [laughs] You did great.
Andrew: Eric, you were at LeakyCon. How did it go?
Eric: I was. I want to thank everybody for coming out to see me at LeakyCon. It was a really good time, actually; quite an interesting convention. 95% of the people who were there, it was their first Harry Potter convention. And let me tell you, in these panels that I witnessed, that I was on, viewing discussion, people were really, really excited to participate. It was so fresh and new to everybody. I mean, these Harry Potter fans, they came dressed to the nines in robes and everything, but they had just not done conventions before, and I think maybe it was the fact that this convention was in Texas, in the middle of the largest state besides California, and all these people had simply… it was easier for them to get here, but I just met a ton of new Harry Potter fans, and the discussions that were had were some of the best that we’ve ever done, so I think that really, really turned out. And that reminds me, the panel… one of my favorite ones was the one we did on Sunday called “Doctors Granger and Granger, DDS” about Hermione’s parents. We know nothing about Hermione’s parents. We don’t even know their names, for real. Neville’s parents we know so much more about, and Hermione is one of the main three, so pretty interesting stuff. But we talked for 55 minutes, about, with the audience; it’s an open audience discussion on what sort of parents would raise Hermione to be the way she is and all that stuff. And as a fact, we have that recording of that panel listed over on our Patreon.
Andrew: [in a southern accent] “We down in Texas, we love our Harry Potter, so yeah, we came out to LeakyCon to talk Harry Potter.”
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: Good thing you brought this up, though; this reminds me, I need to go to a dentist.
Eric: Oh, yeah?
Andrew: But anyway… yeah, definitely do.
Eric: I can recommend a local one.
Andrew: Yeah, please.
Micah: Was Southern Hagrid present for this convention?
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: We saw a lot of big dudes, but I don’t know about Southern Hagrid. I didn’t go up and talk to him. But yeah, no, it was really, really, truly a blast. The other thing that we want to get to real quickly is that the deadline has now passed to let us know if you have problems with your patron mug. So patrons, if you received your annual, yearly gift of the ceramic mug, you’ve got to let me know – Eric@staff.MuggleNet.com – if there was any problems with it, because we’re moving on to international shipping now, hardcore, big time, baby.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: And on that note, if you happen to live in the UK or Canada and you consider yourself something of an expert on your country’s customs policy, please let me know. We’re shipping some gifts to our patrons in that country, and just looking for some helpful, friendly advice, so shoot me an email as well.
Andrew: Well, we can host a conference here in Chicago, and they can come to us and pick up their mugs.
Eric: Oh, there you go.
Andrew: That sounds easier for us, at least.
Eric: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Andrew: We’ll buy you pizza for your troubles flying over here.
Eric: We have that free open bar at Joe’s on Weed.
Andrew: Oh, yeah! Yeah.
Eric: We’ll just ask Ryan if it’s okay.
Andrew: That’ll be great. Really looking forward to that. Okay, well, thanks for those updates, Eric.
News
Andrew: Let’s get to some news now. So there appears to be a new beast, and we haven’t seen him in a trailer or anything, but he debuted via Funko, and Hypable actually got the “exclusive” reveal on this. There is a beast in the first wave of Crimes of Grindelwald Pops – Pop vinyls – called a chupacabra. Now, some of you, especially if you’re a Johnny Depp fan, might actually be surprised by this, because it turns out – and this is real – Johnny Depp has claimed that he has fought a chupacabra before. He actually used it as an excuse for why he didn’t show up to a day of press for a movie he did a couple years ago. He had said, “I fought with it for hours. They’re very persistent, very mean, and I’m pretty sure it came into my suitcase. I threw him off the 23rd floor, so we’ll never see him again. Thank you for understanding.” So now this chupacabra, which is evidently a mythical creature here in the Muggle world as well, is in J.K. Rowling’s wizarding world. [laughs]
Eric: I guess it survived the fall from the 23rd floor.
Andrew: Yeah. Now, the question is, did J.K. Rowling know about Johnny Depp’s “fight” with the chupacabra and add this beast in as a reference to him, or is this just a coincidence?
Eric: I don’t know. I wonder what the chupacabra is… I always thought the chupacabra was native to Central America.
Andrew: It is, yeah, yes. I’ve heard…
Eric: So not where our characters are located.
Andrew: Right, that’s the other strange thing, unless it’s somehow hopped over to Paris or America via a suitcase, maybe. [laughs]
Micah: Certainly possible.
Eric: But it’s a big enough beast in the film to be in the Funko line. Well… yeah, still. The first round of Funkos, too; not even the second or third, “We’re hurting for characters.”
Andrew: Right, “We’ve got to add in something. Oh, there’s that little chupacabra that made a brief cameo. Let’s get him in wave three.” No, this is wave one, so it’s interesting. I don’t know what else to say about it.
Eric: Yeah, it’s pretty weird. I hope that either Johnny Depp completely imagined fighting the chupacabra and that he wasn’t just high and injured a dog, you know?
Andrew: [laughs] Right.
Eric: And I hope that this is not a some kind of in joke on the part of… I don’t find it to be very funny.
Andrew: Me neither. And why would she do Johnny Depp any favors by including a beast that he likes?
Eric: Well, because everything’s totally fine with Johnny Depp, Andrew.
Andrew: Oh, that’s right.
Eric: She could not be happier to have him in this movie.
Andrew: That’s right. Christina, who’s listening live, says, “Yes, it is typically in Central America and the southwestern US, in myths.” But speaking of beasts, we also got our first look at a baby Niffler. This new photo shows one apparently riding on a cork…
[Kendra laughs]
Andrew: … right in front of Newt’s face, probably going 100 miles per hour, maybe in slow-mo in the movie. They’re pretty cute.
Eric: Yep. [laughs]
Andrew: Not much to say there.
Eric: No, I mean, there’s all this concept art – it was on Pottermore as well – of different colored baby Nifflers. I don’t know. I think that Warner Bros. is very keen… and the creators know how much of a success the Niffler was in the first film. And actually, there are reports now that there’s going to be even more Niffler mayhem in the second one, but the only way they can up the stakes is by making something even cuter. What’s cuter than a Niffler? Oh, well, a baby Niffler.
Andrew: Yeah. So what you’re saying is you can’t help but feel like this was maybe a marketing move to push some merchandise.
Eric: And yet I want it so badly. [laughs]
Micah: For who, though? For kids?
Eric: Oh, maybe.
Andrew: For me!
Micah: For you.
Andrew: This 29-year-old wants a baby Niffler. No, I’ve never really been drawn to the Nifflers.
Kendra: I kind of think the adult Niffler is cuter than the baby Niffler, but thinking of how much damage the adult…
Eric: Oooh, controversy.
Kendra: [laughs] I know. But this one’s probably going to have a high little voice, and it’s probably going to be cute moving around. And if the big Niffler can get into a suitcase to steal stuff, I feel like this one’s going to be even more damaging.
Andrew: Yeah, a little rascal. Can get anywhere. We also found out – and we’re going to jump back to Nifflers in a second; Eddie Redmayne made a interesting comment about them in Crimes of Grindelwald – but we also found out that an Augurey is going to be in Fantastic Beasts. This has been confirmed. Augurey is an interesting beast to be in this movie; we all remember Delphi in Harry Potter and the Cursed Child had Augurey feathers tattooed on her back. What does it mean? Interesting connection between Cursed Child and Fantastic Beasts there.
Eric: Don’t they foretell death?
Andrew: Yes.
Eric: Eh…
Andrew: And in the trailer, there’s one looking at Jacob!
Eric: Oh, no.
[Kendra laughs]
Andrew: Uh-oh. I have said before that Jacob is probably going to die in the series, but I don’t think it’s going to be in this movie. But here’s the Augurey foretelling the death.
Micah: But it’s kind of a goofy-looking bird, though. It’s not… when you think of an Augurey, you think of this really dark creature that foretells death, as you said. The interaction that the two of them have with each other – and if I’m remembering this correctly – is the bird’s eyes kind of pop out a little bit, like, “Hey! Who are you? Where you from?” It’s not necessarily a negative interaction.
Andrew: Right. I see what you mean.
Eric: It’s a comic relief scene, potentially.
Andrew: It is.
Micah: Right, there you go. Exactly.
Andrew: But since we know the Augurey foretells death, every time we see this beast in the trailer, we’re going to have to be keeping a close eye on them. Because we know J.K. Rowling likes to foreshadow, what if this beast does foreshadow somebody’s death in this film?
Eric: Yeah. What I recall about the Augurey is that it’s actually, I think, an endangered species as a result of what its cry indicates, so it makes sense that Newt would have one or be protecting them or one of them. But you’re right, this is the classic way that J.K. Rowling used to drop clues. Every time the Sneakoscope would go off or something, and we’d assume, “Oh, it’s just broken.” Well, if the Augurey cries in the film when someone walks into the room, pay particularly close attention to that character for the rest of the film series until they die.
Andrew: Right. And then jumping back to the Niffler for a second, this news kind of just broke, and it’s a translation of a French interview, so we can’t take this completely as gospel. But in this new interview, Eddie Redmayne says that Newt is a bit of a celebrity now following the publication of Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them, and because of his book and writing about Nifflers, Nifflers are now very popular, and there is illegal trafficking of them, and this is probably where the baby Niffler comes in, because maybe they’re being bred.
Eric: Oh.
Andrew: And everybody wants to buy one, so they’re being bred, and maybe Newt doesn’t like that.
Eric: Talk about a get-rich-quick scheme on the part of wizards.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Eric: Get yourself a Niffler and it will find loose change for you or steal somebody else’s.
[Kendra laughs]
Andrew: Yeah, right. I don’t know. To be honest, I don’t really like the Nifflers.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: I don’t. I don’t find them that cute. I don’t find any beast that cute. They need to be Disneyfied more.
Eric: Disneyfied?
Andrew: None of these are… yeah, I want cute Disney-cute beasts. [laughs]
Eric: That’s fair. I think that’s fair. And I just… I think it’s important to show that Newt’s book could have had negative effects on raising… people are going after Nifflers now, and I’m like, “Okay, that makes sense,” because… I don’t know. It’s just… the fact that he’s a celebrity based on his book, which is… I mean, it’s extensively researched, but I like the idea that it would have unintended consequences, because on one hand, he’s raising awareness to how special and unique these beasts are, and because a lot of these beasts that he’s writing about are near death due to, I don’t know, random other trading – he mentioned it in the first movie – and now hopefully there’s enough awareness that people will stop killing them, but as a negative result, now people are going to start potentially, like you said, breeding Nifflers and picking the ones that they think are the coolest, and trying to get one.
Kendra: I can see a Niffler being an equivalent… like a raccoon. They’d be a pest. It would show up at your house and start stealing all your stuff.
Eric: Yeah!
Andrew: [laughs] “There goes MuggleCast again, being negative about everything! They don’t even like the Nifflers. What’s wrong with them?”
[Kendra laughs]
Eric: I like the Nifflers.
Andrew: New one-star review on iTunes. Kendra, as a longtime Harry Potter fan, did you like Fantastic Beasts? The movie?
Kendra: Yeah, I really liked it.
Andrew: Okay.
Kendra: I recommend it to everyone since.
Andrew: [laughs] “Hey, you gotta see this…”
Kendra: Because if they haven’t watched Harry Potter, eight movies is a lot to be like, “Watch these,” but if I can give them one to get them into it…
Andrew: Oh, that’s interesting. Kind of a gateway into the wizarding world.
Kendra: Yeah, I really liked it.
Andrew: That’s a good point. And then one other little tidbit in this new French interview with Eddie Redmayne: Apparently, if I’m understanding this correctly, Newt is going to Paris to track Credence. That is the reason why he goes there. And Eddie says that Newt is using his beast-tracking skills to find a person, which is interesting. I don’t think any of us were expecting Newt to be heading over to Paris specifically for Credence, so that’s surprising.
Eric: Same. Yeah, in the first film it’s only ever kind of an inkling; Newt sees a wisp of smoke, and I think half the audience members who saw that movie probably missed it as well, based on feedback we’ve gotten since. There’s no indication that Credence is still alive, so perhaps in some kind of prologue or something else… I don’t even know that they’d have surveillance photographs. This is the 1920s, for crying out loud.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: How do people know that Credence is in Paris? Who’s watching him? Who’s following him? And for that to be the reason that the entire crew gets up and goes to Paris is a bit of a stretch on first impression, but we’ll see. J.K. Rowling knows what…
Micah: The circus is there, though, isn’t it?
Eric: It is, but there’s no… do we see him? Does somebody notice him joining the circus and then figure out that it’s going to be in Paris next? Who exactly is keeping tabs?
Andrew: Yeah, I think… well, the circus is there, and Credence is going there for the circus, correct? Based on what we know.
Eric: He either already joined when they were stateside and then went to Paris, or is going to Paris to join, I think.
Andrew: And Newt is going to go there and be, what, like, “Hey, man, you don’t need the circus; we got a role for you”?
Micah: But I do agree with the question that you asked. How does Newt even know that Credence is alive at this point?
Eric: Right.
Micah: He’s going to need to find that out some way, and then maybe he has the ability, because of all the time that he spent with the other Obscurus, to know how to track. Maybe Dumbledore will provide him with guidance.
Andrew: That’s a good guess. Yeah, I’m still concerned there’s too much happening in this. Oh, we should mention this really quick… hold on. Let me pull up the tweet. So they did end up doing a test screening of Fantastic Beasts.
Eric: What?!
Andrew: Yeah, over in England.
Eric: Oh.
Andrew: Now, I mean, this guy could be lying, but I would think he actually did go. Hold on. Where is it? Here it is. “Went to a test screening of Fantastic Beasts: The Crimes of Grindelwald tonight. A very good opening sequence, but a muddled film that I’m hoping fares better in the final edit.” Yeah, so I don’t know. Take that for what you will, but I just… there seems like there’s a lot happening in this movie, a lot, and that’s not a good thing.
Eric: Yeah, they can afford to spread it out a little bit.
Andrew: All right, well, before we get to Chapter by Chapter – we’re talking Chapter 3 of Half-Blood Prince – we have a sponsor this week.
[Ad break]
Chapter by Chapter: Main Discussion
Andrew: All right, so Micah, we are asking you to lead this one, Chapter 3 of Half-Blood Prince, since you’ve been off the past two weeks. It’s your turn to work! [laughs]
Micah: Wait, wait, wait. You mean the past one week, right? I don’t think we had two shows in the last two weeks, did we?
Andrew: That’s accurate. I mean, you haven’t…
Micah: I just don’t want any fake news being thrown out there.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: And both of you guys were down in Florida while I did a whole convention without you…
Micah: Oh, poor you.
Eric: … so I’m really not going to talk this episode.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: I don’t believe that for a second.
Eric: I’m going back to bed. Wait, which part?
Micah: That you won’t talk.
Andrew: [laughs] Not talking.
Eric: Oh. [laughs]
Micah: Okay, so Chapter 3 of Half-Blood Prince. Actually, one of the things I want to talk about – and I think you guys touched on this with “Spinner’s End” last week – was I forget just how much happens in the course of a chapter because I’m so accustomed to thinking back to the movies, and the fact that this wasn’t even in the film really kind of bothered me.
Andrew: Me too! I was thinking that too, because I still remember the feelings I experienced while reading this chapter, and I’ll get into this later, but it’s such a great payoff chapter.
Micah: Yeah, it is, and it’s something I think that a lot of us… and I know we asked a question over on Patreon that readers had been waiting for. We were waiting for this interaction to take place between Dumbledore and the Dursleys, and it finally happened. It was probably everything we had hoped for and more. But yeah, I was a bit disappointed. There’s a lot that happens at the front end of Half-Blood Prince that doesn’t make it into the films, and so instead we get Harry just kind of hanging out at a diner in the subway station, checking out some girl.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: Dumbledore showing up on the other side of the tracks.
Eric: I do like that, though. I like that sign, that “little magic” or whatever it says, like, “Believe in a little magic.” It’s the perfume thing that he shows up in front of it. I like the way that…
Andrew: Which made it into the theme park, too, which was a nice little reference.
Eric: Yeah, we all took a photo in front of it. And I love that photo, so I’m biased towards this film scene. I have to say that for me, Michael Gambon was still not book Dumbledore at this point, and so I wouldn’t have liked it if I saw it, if we had the Dursleys back, and if Dumbledore is… because Dumbledore in this book, in this chapter, is very… I’m not comfortable with how he treats the Dursleys.
Andrew: Really?
Eric: I’m not a Dursley apologist, but I think this is not the best that Dumbledore has ever been. I think it’s great to see him, especially because he spent all last year ignoring Harry, and we know why, but after the recent shout-out at the end of Book 5, when Sirius died and Harry took everything out on him, and then Dumbledore told him about the prophecy, now we’re seeing Dumbledore take a new approach. So I like it for that reason, because he is picking Harry up, he’s explaining some magical things, magical concepts, and then taking Harry on an assignment, but he’s still just kind of using him, and he’s really mistreating these poor Dursleys, who were just very shocked. Harry did not…yeah, go on.
Andrew: Well, before we get into that, let’s start at the beginning of the chapter. We’ll just go in order of what happens.
Micah: Yeah, so the chapter opens up, and Harry is actually asleep, right?
[Eric laughs]
Micah: And we’re kind of getting an overhead view of… yeah, so really, we don’t even get from Harry’s perspective until later on in the chapter, so we’re really being starved of Harry. But it’s kind of this overview of his room, and it’s going from one news clip to the next, and you’re getting a sense for what’s going on. There’s one that says, “Harry Potter: The Chosen One?”; “Scrimgeour succeeds Fudge”; there’s a list on what to do when you’re out and about in the wizarding community, because there are Death Eaters, and Voldemort is back. And I kind of wondered, at least with the first couple of headlines, are we meant to feel safe? Is this a way for…? Yes, it’s a way for us to get the sense that there’s a lot of bad things that are going on, but at the same time, I’m wondering, when there’s this buildup of Scrimgeour taking over from Fudge, and all these rules that are being put in place, is it meant to kind of downplay the fact that Voldemort is back? Are you supposed to feel safe as a reader despite everything that’s going on?
Kendra: I don’t think you’re supposed to feel safe as a reader, necessarily, but I think it’s a stark contrast from Order of the Phoenix. I don’t think it says anywhere that these are Daily Prophet headlines, necessarily, but from where they for all of Order of the Phoenix were just ignoring that Voldemort was back, now it’s like, “Okay, he’s here, but don’t worry. Fudge messed this up; now Scrimgeour is here. Everything’s going to be fine. We have all these things in place. Harry Potter might even be the Chosen One; he can save us. So he’s back, but it’s going to be fine.”
Andrew: The Ministry is in a really embarrassing position right now because of them ignoring the truth for so long, so I think this is all that they can do, is try to assure people that the situation is being handled.
Eric: Right, and I’m starting to wonder if there isn’t strategic leaks of information, like for instance, that Chosen One thing.
Andrew: Probably, yeah.
Eric: Even though in that article you have an Obliviator quoted as saying, “Don’t ask me; I can’t talk about it,” or an Unspeakable. The whole idea that Harry Potter might save the world, gee, it’s convenient that that leaked, because it gives people hope, right?
Andrew: Right, but if you’re smart… if I’m a wizard and I’m looking at this, I would not feel comforted by any of these stories in the papers, because the Ministry effed up so badly. How could you trust them now? Even with a new Minister in place.
Eric: I think that’s something that we deal with as Americans every day. How do you trust or have hope in the government when so much wrong is being done? [laughs] But it’s a struggle, you know?
Micah: One of the bits of information that we get as we go through these different articles is that Dumbledore has been reinstated as the Chief Warlock of the Wizengamot, and there’s a question here that says, “But why?” I would think that it’s to endear Dumbledore back to the Ministry, to Scrimgeour, to others that have now probably taken over as Fudge’s administration has been pushed out.
Eric: Oh. I actually… so do you see…? You said Fudge’s administration; do you think there’s a group of people that are intrinsic to who the Minister is, that are now changing positions?
Micah: I would think so. I would think it would be similar to any administration that’s in power. I just don’t think that Fudge is somebody who operated completely independent of anybody else.
Eric: Yeah, I never thought of the wizarding government as being terms or having Fudge have his specific deputy, his specific spokesperson, his specific… I always saw it as… because I’m not familiar with British politics, I just saw it as something completely alien and different, that they would replace Fudge but pretty much everybody else would keep their job. Now that I’m saying that, that doesn’t necessarily make sense, but that’s the way I’ve always thought of it. But regarding Dumbledore, knowing he has very little time left in this world from having finished this book, I wonder what the importance is of him being reinstated to this as Chairman of the Supreme Mugwumps or the… what was it? The Wizengamot. Chief Warlock of the Wizengamot. Dumbledore has so many titles. He is Supreme Mugwump; he is Chief Warlock. He is all these things, his hand in several cookie jars. But I don’t think he’s actually going to have time to sit in this office.
Andrew: No, I think it’s an apology to Dumbledore. By reinstating him, they’re saying, “Hey, sorry we screwed up. We’ll have you back.” Dumbledore, though, still doesn’t have a good relationship with the Ministry.
Eric: Right.
Andrew: We know that Scrimgeour and Dumbledore are still… it’s still a tense relationship, because Scrimgeour tries to get Dumbledore to speak fondly of the Ministry to the public, but Dumbledore doesn’t want to do that, and that’s why there’s a strife which is noted in one of these papers. So Dumbledore rightfully… and plus, he knows he doesn’t have much time left, so why should he go and speak positively about the Ministry when he’s going to be dead within a year, and who knows how the Ministry is going to be acting beyond that? Because he doesn’t know, ultimately, how this is going to play out.
Micah: I think there’s a lack of trust there still on the part of Dumbledore, not necessarily with somebody like Scrimgeour, but when you think about how much he had to try and do in order to get Fudge to listen to him, there’s probably others within the staff of the Ministry that are easily compromised, right? Just look at some of the other headlines that we’re reading, some of the other stories that we’re coming across, even going back to the first chapter between the two Ministers. People are easily compromised, and there’s probably a very small circle of people that Dumbledore trusts, so as you said, why waste his time at a place that has caused him so much angst and strife over the course of the last couple years?
Eric: It’s just funny to see Harry adopt basically Dumbledore’s philosophy too. I mean, for the right reasons, but Harry’s opposition to the Ministry is based on, “Well, what have you done for me?” And that seems to be what you guys are thinking Dumbledore is saying too. “Why should I support or endorse the government when they’ve made it so much harder for me to do my thing?” is kind of an attitude that both Dumbledore and Harry share.
Micah: Yeah, absolutely. One of the other mentions that we got in the early part of this chapter, as you’re going through and reading some of these headlines, was that of the Inferi.
Eric: Euhh.
Micah: And I’m not sure if it’s the first time in the series that we hear about them, but just given what happens later on in this book, it’s one of those – as you were saying earlier when we were talking about the Augurey and Jacob – it’s J.K. Rowling’s way of kind of dropping subtle hints of what’s to come later on.
Andrew: Yeah, yeah. And it was published in the paper, right? So obviously, wizards know what that is, but to us, it’s like, “Wait, what?”
Micah: Yeah, it’s in the “Protecting your home and family against Dark forces” little snippet.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Would any of those work? Would those steps work? I think they’re pretty good, right? For mass consumption.
Andrew: Actually, yeah. What cracked me up was the security question. “Come up with a security question for your friends and family so you can identify that it’s truly them, and not somebody under Polyjuice Potion.”
Eric: Well, we see the Order use that.
Andrew: Yeah. I was trying to think what our security questions would be for each other.
Eric: Oh.
Kendra: At least up here in Canada, I think they kind of have that. They tell kids to do that; if your parent can’t pick you up from school and they’re sending someone else, they’re like, “Give them a security question so they know it’s not a random stranger trying to pick them up.”
Eric: That’s really smart. That probably saves lives.
Andrew and Micah: Yeah.
Andrew: Micah, I’m not sure if this is truly you. Tell me: What’s the MuggleCast Gmail password?
[Kendra and Micah laugh]
Eric: Oh yeah, there you go.
Andrew: “I don’t know, Andrew. It’s way too complicated.” You’re fake!
Micah: All right, so finally, Harry wakes up. It’s been a couple pages, right?
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: And one of the things that we see in addition to all these articles is a letter that was written by Dumbledore to Harry, and we get the sense from Harry that he’s very… he’s unsure that Dumbledore is actually going to do what he says in this letter, and that’s show up at Privet Drive, and I wanted to know if you all thought that this was a result of their relationship from Order of the Phoenix. Does he just not put a lot of trust into Dumbledore anymore?
Andrew: I think that… you know, I would say that that’s a good guess, Micah, but that’s the last thing on Harry’s mind, seemingly. I’m just going to read a part of this excerpt. It says, “It just seemed too good to be true that he was going to be rescued from the Dursleys after a mere fortnight of their company.” So first of all, he just can’t believe that he has to be at the Dursleys’ for such a short amount of time. But then it goes on, “He could not shrug off the feeling that something was going to go wrong – his reply to Dumbledore’s letter might have gone astray; Dumbledore could be prevented from collecting him; the letter might turn out not to be from Dumbledore at all, but a trick or joke or trap.” So I agree with you, yet this is not on Harry’s mind, so why is he not thinking that? [laughs] That Dumbledore might just be misleading him?
Eric: It’s unrealistic that he should think that Dumbledore couldn’t make it safely to Privet Drive. He’s Dumbledore, for crying out loud!
Andrew: Right.
Eric: All of this seems like a weird cop-out, and it’s very weird that Harry would not tell the Dursleys. According to this chapter, we’re just supposed to believe it slipped his mind, but my argument is going to be Harry not telling the Dursleys further worsens the relationship that the Dursleys have with Dumbledore. And I know it doesn’t really amount to much, but it is something to consider. Harry caused this problem by not telling them, and if Dumbledore is coming at 11 o’clock at night, I would be irate too.
Andrew: The late hour I agree with you on, but Harry doesn’t owe them anything, so it’s kind of fun to give Dumbledore a surprise appearance. [laughs]
Kendra: I was so mad at Harry the whole chapter. I was like, “Harry, pack your stuff. You’re going to keep Dumbledore waiting when he gets here.”
[Eric laughs]
Kendra: “Tell your guardians that this crazy-looking guy is going to show up in a few minutes. Grow up.”
Andrew: What are the Dursleys even doing up at 11:00 p.m.? That seems late for a very serious family.
Eric: Yeah, a Muggle, ordinary…
Andrew: They’re not very fun. They don’t go out partying. They seem like a type of family that’ll be in bed by 9.
Eric: Petunia’s got her very last minute wipe-down of the kitchen surfaces.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Very important. Very, very crucial.
Andrew: Yes.
Eric: Harry does need to grow up, and fast. It’s ridiculous that… he’s in bed, meanwhile, at 7, or leaning against a window with a misty fug coming from his… I don’t know. It’s funny.
Andrew: I disagree with you guys, but that’s okay.
Micah: But what do you think the reaction would have been, though, if he told them, “Dumbledore is going to be here at 11 o’clock at night”?
Andrew: [imitating Vernon Dursley] “No. Tell him to come later. Don’t come at all.”
Eric: Probably anxious, apprehension, nervousness, but at least then they’d be ready to receive a guest. I think the Dursleys… we all know the Dursleys stink, right? And people really relish his mistreatment of the Dursleys for that reason in this chapter. Everybody’s like, “Ha ha ha, look, they’re finally getting their own.” But this is caused by Harry. I think they would have been a little bit better, at least certainly prepared to observe the niceties, because we’ve seen them do it before. I mean, the Dursleys, when they were hosting the Masons, there was a bundt cake or something. A jello cake. They’ve done it before. They’ve hosted… they’re capable of welcoming people into their home.
Andrew: Wait a second, but they wouldn’t have welcomed a wizard into their house. They wouldn’t have prepared a bundt cake; they wouldn’t have done anything. They’d be dreading it.
Kendra: I think they probably would have left. I think they probably would have left the house, which I think is interesting that Dumbledore didn’t tell Harry not to tell them, because he obviously had something to say to them. And I think, had they known Dumbledore was coming, they couldn’t have gotten far enough away.
Eric: That’s a good point.
Andrew: Interesting, yeah. So then Dumbledore does show up, and I found this line very interesting. Vernon doesn’t say anything, but he is “temporarily robbed of breath” when Dumbledore enters. He’s intimidated, right? And I found this interesting, because just like Voldemort is challenged by Dumbledore – he knows that he is his equal, or perhaps greater than him – Vernon, too, realizes that he can’t yell at this guy, that Dumbledore has got the leg up on him. [laughs] And Vernon and Voldemort both hate Harry, therefore Vernon and Voldemort are the same person.
Eric: [laughs] Oh my God.
Andrew: Scared of Dumbledore, hating Harry.
Eric: Crackpot theory.
Micah: Wow, there you go.
[Andrew and Kendra laugh]
Micah: There’s actually a comparison, though, between Dumbledore and Vernon’s mustaches.
Andrew: Wait, Voldemort’s mustache?
Micah: No, no, I said Vernon and Dumbledore’s.
Andrew: Oh.
Micah: I don’t know if we want to try and connect the two of them together now too.
Eric: Yeah, they’re pretty much the same person.
Andrew: I think that’s disgusting.
[Kendra laughs]
Andrew: That’s wrong. Vernon is evil, and mean.
Micah: It is. It is true. So is Dumbledore, though.
Eric: Yep.
Andrew: No.
Micah: Pig for slaughter. Or are we not there yet?
Andrew: No, not there yet.
Micah: All right.
Andrew: So what happens in this encounter, Micah?
Micah: Oh, it’s wonderful. It’s everything we could have wanted and more.
Andrew: Great 11:00 p.m. surprise encounter.
Micah: Yeah, and I think it’s much as we would have expected, right? We have a stunned Dursley family, a very witty and cordial Dumbledore… although very fierce at times, too, in terms of how he interacts with them. He invites himself in, saying that, “Let’s suppose that you’ve invited me into your home,” and he steps in, and it’s just… I don’t know. I feel like this is something that we as readers were waiting for. We were waiting for Dumbledore and the Dursleys to come face-to-face with each other after all this time, after the way they’ve treated Harry for all these years. I’m not sure the payoff… is the payoff what we wanted it to be, though? I mean, what was the expectation, though? Just a good, stern talking-to?
Andrew: I think so. Yes. I love this chapter, because finally somebody… and who better than Dumbledore to face the Dursleys face-to-face and put them in their place for how they’ve treated Harry over the years? Dumbledore nails them multiple times. He also nails them physically with these glasses of mead.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Andrew: But it’s just so nice to read. Finally somebody gets to talk down to the Dursleys, and they’re silent. They can’t do anything.
Eric: Dumbledore is making no effort to really explain himself or where he’s coming from. He gives them a stern talking-to, but he ultimately leaves them with more questions than answers in terms of, “What did he mean when he said we were mistreating Dudley?” They don’t get it, and maybe it’s supposed to be plain as day, but I’m just not 100% sold on what Dumbledore is getting at. And meanwhile, honestly, in this chapter, the way it reads to me, the Dursleys are Dumbledore’s prisoner. I’m sorry, but they just are. “He drew his wand so rapidly that Harry barely saw it;” I’m quoting, “with a casual flick, the sofa zoomed forward and knocked the knees out from under all three of the Dursleys so that they collapsed upon it in a heap. Another flick of the wand and the sofa zoomed back to its original position.” Who are the Dursleys to contend against Dumbledore’s magic? He’s forcing them to sit down, forcing them to drink drinks that they don’t want to drink, forcing them into a conversation, just because he wills it to be so. This is very much the Dumbledore that fell in love with Grindelwald and wanted to subjugate the Muggle world. Dumbledore hasn’t changed at all.
Micah: All right.
Kendra: I think in this case, it’s kind of the mark of a dying man, is what I’m seeing. Like, “I’ve got all of this stuff to get done. I don’t have time for politeness. You’ve mistreated this kid for so long, I only have this one chance to say this to you, and also, I’m not going to deal with you. We’ve got to get this stuff done. I’m going to do whatever I have to do and not let you get in my way.”
Eric: Good point.
Micah: That’s a great point.
Eric: It works. It’s just rough around the edges because Dumbledore is… maybe because Dumbledore is dying. But for me, I get a little bit of joy in seeing the glasses rub up against the temples of the Dursleys, but then I have nothing but empathy for how uncomfortable that would actually feel if it were me.
Kendra: I definitely have empathy for Dudley, because really, every encounter he’s had with a wizard has been him just being either attacked by a Dementor or just relentlessly bullied.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Andrew: Right. But see, Dumbledore wouldn’t do this if the Dursleys had treated him nicely, so this is their fault, and that’s why I don’t have sympathy. And by the way, what does Dumbledore mean when he says that they’ve treated Dudley very poorly?
Eric: I think he’s just looking at Dudley being very overweight…
Andrew: That’s what I think too.
Eric: … and suggesting that giving into his every indulgence has just been done. He says, what, “irreparable harm,” right, to the boy?
Kendra: Yeah, they’ve basically just spoiled him so much that he has no chance of surviving in the real world without them.
Eric: Which, that’s a big unfair, right? I mean, I think that…
Andrew: No!
Eric: It was, a little bit.
Andrew: He’s large and spoiled, only child situation, and they don’t realize how they’ve mistreated him because they’ve only treated him one type of way. They don’t know any other way to treat Dudley than by giving him the best.
Eric: But it’s not Dumbledore’s line here that causes Dudley to grow into the character we see in Book 7 when he has that tearful goodbye with Harry, when he comes to his own and realizes… far be it for the Dursleys to have a say in this, but Dudley is growing into his own person, and a man, and it’s not because of Dumbledore saying this one throwaway line. Dudley is not a lost cause or hurt for life or irreparably damaged. I mean, Dumbledore is just making a fat joke and leaving, peacing out.
Micah: But do you think…? And this may be going a little bit off topic now, but Dudley treats Harry the way that he does because of the way Vernon and Petunia treat him.
Eric: I think he’s leading by example, yeah.
Andrew: Libby, who is listening live on Patreon, she says, “Do you think Dumbledore’s speech to the Dursleys was another form of emotional manipulation towards Harry? Like, ‘Look, Harry, I’m on your side. I’m defending you finally from the Dursleys.’ Because he knows he is dying, and he wants Harry to think of him fondly, or trust him with what he knows he is asking of Harry at the very end.” I think that’s a good point.
Eric: Yeah, I think it also helps Dumbledore’s cause in the very next chapter. He knows what mission he and Harry have to go on, and he wants Harry to be as close to his side as can be, so he might be overcompensating. I think that’s the right way of looking at it.
Andrew: And the Deasha – hopefully I’m pronouncing your name right – she says, “This may be too deep, but Dumbledore entered their home without real permission, forced them to stay there. He scared them. This all happened in their own home. How are they ever supposed to feel safe in their home, where their son grew up, when a wizard can just come in anytime and hold them hostage?”
Eric: Exactly, they are his hostages.
Andrew: Yeah, pretty damaging.
Micah: I don’t think we would ever have looked at this this way right when the book first came out, so I think it’s definitely interesting that we’re taking this perspective of Dumbledore being a bully, essentially.
Andrew: Yeah. Eh, I still don’t mind it.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Micah: You’re still all for it.
Andrew: Can some of you who agree with me please write in and help me out? [laughs]
Micah: Well, one thing that’s worth mentioning that happens at the very onset: When he meets Petunia, he says that they have corresponded before, of course, and Harry thought that a very odd way of referring to a Howler that he had sent. There was a lot of theorizing, of course, around this particular statement, and we find out more, of course, in Deathly Hallows.
Andrew: Right.
Eric: Yeah, it’s kind of beautiful to have this moment that is overlooked by the text, but Petunia sees Dumbledore for the first time and is again robbed of her breath. As the reader at the time, you think it’s the same thing with Vernon; he’s just so flustered. But Petunia, we learn, is seeing the man in person for the first time, the man that she as a little girl wrote to asking to be part of Hogwarts, and the letter she got back was thoughtful and careful and apologetic. She’s seeing Dumbledore for the first time, this man that has played such an important role in her sister’s life and death. And he’s the main man; it’s Albus Dumbledore. It would be as if Santa Claus walked in the door, honestly. Yeah, exactly, this man you wrote to as a kid is now made flesh. I’m going with Santa Claus.
Micah: But he could have just completely revealed everything about their correspondence in that moment, but he doesn’t. Given everything else that’s going on right now between him and the Dursleys, why not just let her secret out?
Andrew: Why? Because that would be highly embarrassing for her, wouldn’t it?
Eric: It would cause a lot of marital strife between her and Vernon.
Kendra: I think he might have pulled it out had the Dursleys been resistant to Harry coming back the next year. He might have tried to use that as one last bit of leverage. But I just don’t think he needed to put her in that position in this case.
Micah: One other thing that gets mentioned that literally gets pushed aside by Dumbledore is Harry’s mention of his hand, and I wanted to talk a little bit about that because Snape makes a similar comment in “Spinner’s End” about how Dumbledore is not as quick as he used to be; he’s getting old, and now we can sort of start putting the pieces together a little bit.
Andrew: Yeah. I didn’t really take Snape’s comment, though, in the same… do you think he’s specifically mentioning what’s going on with trying to destroy the Horcrux? Is that what Snape was alluding to? Or is he just…? I kind of took Snape’s comment as just brushing off Dumbledore as like, “Ah, he’s an old dude.”
Eric: What Snape says is “He recently sustained an injury,” and in this chapter, we see what that injury is.
Andrew: Ahh.
Eric: Dumbledore’s hand is blackened and flaying off. [laughs] Unfortunately, it’s this book’s least funny recurring joke, I guess, that Harry asks Dumbledore what’s up with his arm, and Dumbledore says, “Later, Harry,” and he does this the entire book, and Dumbledore never tells Harry what’s up with his arm. Unless I’m mistaken, he always, always says, “It’s a fascinating story; I will tell you much later,” and he never gets around to it because he dies. This is the first time that that occurs, and it will not be the last in this book.
Andrew: Thanks, Dumbledore. Always so helpful.
Eric: Yeah, yeah.
Micah: All right, well, then we get to the real comic relief of the chapter, in my opinion.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: Well, because now we’re getting to Kreacher being brought in, and I completely forgot about this, and what better way to put the Dursleys in their place after…? Eric, you had mentioned Petunia. She was washing down the kitchen; she was getting everything all organized for the next day, and in pops this filthy, disgusting, ragged house-elf all over her floor. It completely upsets the image of what she would see as her living room and this perfect home, and this is where I see Dumbledore being a bit sinister, because he doesn’t even need to do this, really, within the Dursleys’ home. He’s doing it to add another level of fear to them, and he’s doing it to really contrast what the Dursleys would see as being their perfect home and the way that they’ve lived their lives for however long that they’ve been at Privet Drive. So it’s obviously an important moment, because we learn that Harry has inherited Grimmauld Place and Kreacher along with it, and it’s just… I don’t know. What did you guys think of it?
Andrew: Well, this is the one part where I agree with you that Dumbledore might be bullying them and holding them hostage. This situation, this investigation, did not have to occur in the Dursleys’ home. [laughs] This could have easily happened… occurred somewhere else.
Eric: Could’ve happened on the street.
Andrew: Right, exactly. Yeah, or over at Slughorn’s place. This just did not have to happen here. Put the Dursleys in their place in their home? I’m cool with that. But bringing Kreacher in and figuring out that whole situation? That didn’t have to happen here.
Kendra: I kind of disagree, because it’s a pretty sensitive matter, the ownership of 12 Grimmauld Place and who gets the stuff that Harry has inherited. And there is definitely a level of security that exists at the Dursley home that doesn’t exist in other homes in the wizarding world.
Eric: Maybe the problem of being overheard is… he’s doing it there because it has to be done there, because it’s least likely that they’ll be overheard about this whole will stuff and the Fidelius Charm and Grimmauld Place. That’s a good point, I think.
Andrew: Yeah. Well, let’s talk about that magic. This has always been a very interesting discussion, I think. Dumbledore, one of the reasons he’s here is because he says Harry needs to return to the house one more time so he can have the magic that Dumbledore evoked on the house last for its intended course. What is this magic that he evoked on the house when Harry first moved in? And why does it only last until he becomes of age?
Kendra: Well, it’s not on the house, I don’t think; it’s on Harry himself. I believe there’s three parts of the charm. The first part would be your family member sacrificing themselves for you; and then there is an actual spell that needs to be said on to the person, being Harry; and then the third part of the charm would be – I think this is in Order of the Phoenix – the third part would be the family member of the person who made the sacrifice accepting you into their home. So the charm is on Harry because of his mom’s sacrifice, but it exists on the home because of Petunia accepting him into it. So I’m not sure… and I think it would end when he comes of age because that would be when you don’t need your parents’ protection anymore. But what I’m not clear on is what would happen if someone sacrificed themselves for an 18-year-old. Then is it just not possible?
Eric: I’ve always found it problematic that Lily is apparently the first person to jump in front of their child during a time of war.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: I think that’s ridiculous and completely impossible. But as far as this charm goes, it is the blood connection that Petunia shares with Harry – they share the same blood – that enables this protection. Dumbledore somehow, I guess without meeting with Petunia specifically to do it, was able to invoke this magical protection over the home, that of where Petunia resides. But I think it is some form of blood magic. I think it’s said as much that the magical blood – and Voldemort is all about Harry’s blood – is really, at root, what’s causing Harry to be safe. But I think the coming of age thing is exactly what you said; the protection that Lily conveyed to Harry is based on the fact that he was an innocent child and unable to defend himself, so in JKR’s mind, that goes away when someone is an adult.
Andrew: Okay.
Micah: I thought it was interesting, though, too, when they brought up the fact that “Don’t you come of age when you’re 18 years old?” as opposed to what they’re saying, when he’s 17. And that would have been funny if Dumbledore is like, “Oh, what, you want him for an extra year?”
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: But it’s also funny… I’m looking at this line right now: “Uncle Vernon muttered, ‘Preposterous,'” when Dumbledore said they come of age at 17, as if a year makes a huge difference. Uncle Vernon is so offended by becoming an adult a year earlier. [laughs] He must think it’s so preposterous, because Dudley clearly is not an adult yet.
[Kendra laughs]
Eric: Yeah, maybe. Gosh.
Micah: So Kreacher gets sent off to the Hogwarts kitchens, so that’ll be interesting, I’m sure, later on. But what I thought would have also been pretty funny… what if Harry said he had to stay with the Dursleys?
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: Oh my gosh. “Here, Aunt Petunia, you have a willing and helpful servant to help you clean things.” Man, Kreacher would just ruin that place. He would just completely destroy it.
Andrew: Yeah, yeah. I mean, that would be very mean of Dumbledore. Then again, if Petunia was allowed to control Kreacher, maybe she would actually come to like him. “Hey, he can do all my cleaning now.”
Eric: It’s just the talk back would be infuriating.
Andrew: Well, you could also tell him to shut up.
Eric: Oh, yeah. That’s true.
Andrew: As his master. But no, the Dursleys would probably not like that overall. Or maybe it’d be a good substitute for while Harry is gone, you know? Keep something magical in the house because they miss Harry.
Eric: I feel a little bit sad for Kreacher having to choke on his own words a little bit.
Andrew: Yeah. That’s house-elf life, though.
Eric: That is house-elf life. I’m just feeling bad for the Dursleys, for Kreacher… I’m in a weird emotional spot with this chapter.
Andrew: [laughs] Very conflicting.
Micah: But so that gets resolved, right? And we’re also able to learn the fact that Grimmauld Place… there is some question as to how secure it actually is, and who now may potentially be able to access it, and I think this is all despite the allegiance of Kreacher being to Harry now. You can tell that Dumbledore was a bit concerned that Bellatrix or others would be able to find the headquarters for the Order of the Phoenix, utilize Kreacher even further beyond what she did in Order the Phoenix, so it seems like Dumbledore is going around and he’s tying up quite a bit of loose ends.
Eric: Yeah, no, absolutely. I think the Order of the Phoenix still needs a headquarters, but I know they’ve made temporarily somewhere else their headquarters, but it is a bit of loose ends tying. And it’s a little bit of a credit to Sirius, just a tiny, tiny little bit of a credit to Sirius that as a result of these tests, these experiments that they do, Dumbledore says, “It looks like Sirius knew what he was doing when he left you all of his stuff in his will.” So Sirius had to really kind of investigate to see if there were any charms that would affect somebody else’s eligibility to own Grimmauld Place, and apparently there weren’t.
Andrew: Yeah. I never doubted Sirius’s ability to have this worked out, because he knew he was always a risk, that he could die, and he would want his affairs in order should he pass. I don’t know. I’m not necessarily…
Eric: I think the question becomes what his parents did, though.
Andrew: Yeah, but still, don’t you have faith in him to fix that all? Fix all that? I did. I knew you had it under control, buddy. How’s the veil?
Micah: Oof, that’s rough.
Andrew: [laughs] What is on the other side?
Micah: One other thing I did want to bring up – because I know we’re probably pretty close to wrapping up this chapter – and it can kind of tie into this question about “Where do vanished objects go?” Eric, did you put that there?
Eric: Yeah, I put that here.
Micah: Sounds like one of your questions, so I just wanted to…
Eric: Oh, I borrowed it from the door knocker on the Ravenclaw…
Micah: But speaking of vanished objects, I thought it was, again, very well done on the part of J.K. Rowling to use a bottle of mead, right? We know mead comes into play later on in the story, of course, being sent to Dumbledore, and that’s, in fact, what he serves up to the Dursleys. And I don’t know, I just think it’s another instance of… not foreshadowing, but planting seeds so that you should be thinking about these types of things.
Eric: That is interesting.
Andrew: Vanished objects, I don’t really know what to say about that, but I think it is kind of interesting that they can move all these objects? [laughs]
Eric: Well, no, what I mean is Dumbledore out of nowhere conjures a bottle of Madam Rosmerta’s fine oak-matured mead and glasses. He conjures them out of nothing, which, if it’s… one of Gamp’s laws is you can’t create food out of nothing, so… I mean, assuming mead is food? But clearly that bottle and those glasses were existing somewhere, and probably somewhere far away. I mean, Hogwarts is a great distance away from where the Dursleys live, we can assume. And so Dumbledore, with a flick of his wand, made these things appear. They came from somewhere. They were summoned, but not as messily as Accio. Remember in the first task during Book 4, when Harry has to summon his broom, and it breaks the chains and comes through the windows and the walls and flies to him and gets to him? Dumbledore did something a lot more stealthily, a lot a lot smoother with these bottles. And then at the end of the chapter, he moves Harry’s trunk, his living, breathing owl, and his other supplies to the Burrow with a flick of his wand as well. This is magic that… my point is we didn’t see this before.
Andrew: I believe they exist between life and death at that King’s Cross station that we see in Deathly Hallows.
Eric: [laughs] All the vanished objects are there?
Andrew: It’s all there. Yeah, J.K. Rowling didn’t have room to fit that in, but they’re all there.
Kendra: Also, doesn’t he kind of summon Kreacher out of nowhere? Where does he come from? Because he couldn’t have Apparated in just on command.
Andrew: Well, look, Dumbledore is one of the most powerful wizards of our time. He’s got this all figured out.
Eric: I just mean to point out that it’s magic we’ve never seen before.
Kendra: Right.
Andrew: Yeah. And then there’s this final line in the chapter, which I think is one of Dumbledore’s best. He says, “Let us step into the night and pursue that flighty temptress, adventure.” I love that line, but what does flighty temptress mean? It means the chance to seek out adventure comes and goes? It tempts you, but what does flighty mean? It’s only there sometimes?
Eric: Prone to taking off, not substantial, non-corporeal… it’s a tease. Adventure is a tease. It gets you interested, and then might not be promising, might not be rewarding, but it’s tempting you to go on the journey kind of thing.
Andrew: I have this article up from Bustle.com, “11 Harry Potter quotes about adventure,” and it has this quote, and then it says, “See? No one can resist a little adventure, not even grown-ass wizards like Albus Dumbledore.” [laughs] What?
Eric: I think it’s wrong to characterize this next chapter as an adventure. I mean, it’s a little bit of a misnomer, if you ask me.
Andrew: Well…
Eric: It’s a mission. It’s a gamble maybe, at best, it is a gamble. But Dumbledore has got pretty much everything aligned to make this introduction to Harry and Slughorn. I know we’ll talk about this next time, next chapter, but I don’t think it’s right to say it’s an adventure. The cave thing is an adventure.
Andrew: Maybe, but this is Dumbledore and Harry going out for the first time together. Maybe he’s excited about that; just he’s going on a mission with Harry outside of Hogwarts. It’s kind of cool. And maybe it’s just sort of J.K. Rowling’s invitation into this book. It reminds me of Grindelwald’s line, “Shall we die just a little?” And I think that Heyman or Yates had said it’s kind of an invitation to what’s ahead. That’s the vibe I get from this.
Eric: I like that.
Micah: Agreed. And I think in a way, these first couple of chapters are very similar to each other, right? Just kind of having these people coming together, talking. There’s not a whole lot of action taking place; it’s all just characters in these different home settings – maybe with the exception of the first chapter, but still – and laying the groundwork for what’s to come in the rest of the book.
Andrew: One could argue that that is the Minister’s home. He’s spending so much time there with all the trouble that’s going on. [laughs]
Micah: True.
Andrew: Never gets to leave. Poor guy. All right, we have a question that we asked our patrons that we’ll get to in a second, and then we’re going to name the MVP of the Week, and we’re going to rename the chapter as we’ve been doing with Chapter by Chapter of Half-Blood Prince so far. But first we have another advertiser.
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Question of the Week
Micah: Well, as Andrew mentioned, we did ask a question over on Patreon about Chapter 3 of Half-Blood Prince. We wanted to know what was the biggest takeaway from Dumbledore’s conversation with the Dursleys, and got a number of answers here, the first from Rebecca Rowley, who says,
“The part that lingered with me the most was towards the end of the chapter when Dumbledore practically scolded the Dursleys (in his most calm Dumbledore way) for not treating Harry like a son and instead keeping him miserable while he called their house his home. The line insinuating they had damaged Dudley with all their pampering and spoiling of him was so gratifying to me. Even though he had a terrible childhood, Harry still turned out to be a much more well-rounded person than Dudley, and I smile every time I read that bit where it’s thrown in the Dursleys’ faces.”
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: Ashley Wilson said,
“This chapter always made me happy because I felt like Harry finally had some satisfaction, seeing the Dursleys be called out by Dumbledore for being horrible to him since taking him in. Also, it was awesome to hear Dumbledore explain the importance of Harry calling Privet Drive, where his mother’s blood lives, home. Another anti-magic-Dursley wall broken down, and perhaps allowing them a glimpse into the very real danger Harry, and the wizarding world/Muggle world at large, is in. All in all, love the juxtaposition of Dumbledore being in the Dursley world, schooling them on manners.”
Andrew: I think a lot of people agreeing with me here.
Eric: Yeah, yeah, I agree. You found some kindred friends here. A darker take, though, comes from Owen Mims. He says,
“After the revelations of Book 7, I think this conversation might be a brief glimpse into the Albus Dumbledore that once found a kindred spirit in Gellert Grindelwald. He flaunts his powers in front of them, knowing full well their feelings toward magic (which is made worse by his knowledge of Petunia’s envy toward her sister). I think this is the prideful Dumbledore, the manipulative Dumbledore, the Dumbledore that is perhaps upset that his plans were endangered because this family of Muggles mistreated his prized agent.”
Micah: Interesting.
Eric: This is retribution 101 for Dumbledore.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: He’s angry. He’s going to grind some temples with some glass.
Andrew: Stef doesn’t agree, though, with some of the people siding with me here. She says, “Too little, too late, D-Dore.”
Eric: Ohh.
Andrew: Interesting nickname for him.
Micah: “D-Dore”?
Andrew: Yeah. What does she mean by that, though? That he’s coming to Harry’s defense in regards to the Dursleys too late?
Micah: Well, yeah. I mean, he clearly knows how he’s been treated all these years, and he’s done very little about it.
Andrew: Yeah, okay.
Micah: Leann said,
“My favorite part is still the absolute refusal of the Dursleys to accept the existence of anything magical, even when is literally slapping them in the face. Dumbledore’s humor is the best! I love that they finally get a small taste of the treatment they have given to Harry for over a decade.”
[Eric and Kendra laugh]
Micah: And finally, one more here from Evelyn Blake.
“It is very humorous, but has a dark undercurrent. Dumbledore clearly wants to let the Dursleys know they were not doing a good job all these years (why didn’t he confront them before?!) Very sad the whole scene with the Dursleys got replaced with the dumb scene with a girl in a coffeeshop. People complain about how the tone needs to be ‘darker,’ but J.K. Rowling is so good with combining light and dark, it was all a huge missed opportunity.”
Eric: I like the cafe scene in the movie.
Andrew: But in replace of the Dursleys?
Eric: No. Yeah, no, I want more Dursleys in the films; that’s for sure.
Andrew: Yeah, yeah. All right, thanks to patrons who contributed there. We do that pretty much every week over at Patreon.com/MuggleCast. Gets some of your feedback on the show.
MVP of the Week
Andrew: Let’s name the MVP of the Week, the most valuable wizarding player of the week. I usually like to do a jokey type of pick, but this week, I’ve got to say Dumbledore. D-Dore ruled in this. I said that first time I read this, I just remember feeling so good. It gives you so much payoff. Finally, somebody is putting the Dursleys in their place. I don’t think I expected it to ever happen, so reading this for the first time, I was like, “Yes, yes, thank you. They mistreated him, and yes, they do to treat Dudley like crap as well.” [laughs] So I was all for it. Eric, who was your MVP?
Eric: Gotta give it to my man, Sirius, the godfather with the mostest. Even in death, he’s… well, he just… before he died, making sure that the protections that his crazy family and relatives would have put on the building did not interfere with his wishes for Harry, a non-Black, to receive his property and all of his holdings. So super, super cool. Good on Sirius for thwarting the last middle finger to his extended estranged family. Very MVP stuff.
Andrew: MVDP.
Eric and Micah: Yeah.
Micah: I ended up going with Hagrid because he got his hippogriff back, Buckbeak. Witherwings.
Eric: Aww.
Andrew: [laughs] But… I’m sorry, Micah, that doesn’t make him the most valuable player. That might make him happy, but not valuable. Come on, you’re a sports guy. You should know this.
[Kendra and Micah laugh]
Micah: Yeah, well, I mean, I’m trying to not pick the ones that were already selected, so…
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: Fair enough. I just like giving you a hard time. How about you, Kendra?
Kendra: My pick was Kreacher, whom I just generally love, but I think in this chapter, he shows an impressive amount of defiance for a house-elf, and kind of always does. He really likes serving the Blacks, and then when other people move in, he’s like, “I have to serve you, but I’m going to make you pay for it,” and he kind of does the same thing here, where they force him to be quiet, but he still has a temper tantrum on the floor. He kind of just does what he wants, despite having to do what he’s told.
Andrew: Yeah. All right, good pick.
Rename the Chapter
Andrew: So now let’s rename the chapter. Let’s create a title that better reflects what we saw. This chapter’s title was “Will and Won’t,” referring to Kreacher saying he won’t, but then he does.
Eric: And then the will is Sirius’s will, right? That he’s reading.
Andrew: Oh! Ahh. You know, I never noticed that before.
Micah: Double meanings.
Eric: Yeah, it’s a difficult one to understand. I only got it this reread-through too.
Andrew: I thought it was just word play, “Will and Won’t,” because Kreacher is like, “I will. I won’t.” But I get it now. Nice.
Eric: Anyway, this chapter is definitely in need of some renaming.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Andrew: It’s too hard to understand; we have to rename it. My pick is Half-Blood Prince Chapter 3, “Deal With It!” Referring to Dumbledore entering their house. Clearly, I’m a big fan of Dumbledore’s actions.
Eric: Clearly. I went with Half-Blood Prince Chapter 3, “Angry-dore.”
[Kendra laughs]
Andrew: I didn’t think he was angry, but all right.
Eric: He’s righteous.
Micah: I went with Half-Blood Prince Chapter 3, “When Kreacher Met Petunia.”
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Eric: Aww.
Andrew: Two people you’d never expect together.
Eric: Violins are playing.
Kendra: I said Half-Blood Prince Chapter 3, “My godfather died and all I got was this lousy house-elf.”
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: Perfect. It’s perfect. Kendra is the MVP of this episode.
Micah: Yeah, I agree.
Andrew: And to be fair, a lot of money.
Kendra: Yeah. [laughs] And a house.
Andrew: Not that he needed it, though.
Crackpot Theory
Andrew: Okay, well, to wrap up this Chapter by Chapter segment, we have a crackpot theory. Eric, did you find this?
Eric: I did find this. This came into our email inbox, and it’s a crackpot theory in the vein of what we did last week, where a throwaway line is used to justify or extrapolate what could have been, or could be going on in a “It’s never explicitly proven” kind of way. So this is actually based on a line that happens in Chapter 5, but it has repercussions, which is why I’m mentioning it in Chapter 3 for us to take a look at. In Chapter 5, Molly Weasley asks Dumbledore where… she expresses surprise that they arrived in the middle of the night, and Dumbledore replies, “We were lucky.” And the question becomes whether or not Dumbledore was using Felix Felicis this whole time, including in Chapter 3, the chapter we just read, to help him achieve his ends. So here’s the full email I’ll read real quickly. Beth Currie writes,
“Hi guys, I only discovered podcasts about a month ago, but I have subscribed to MuggleCast and enjoyed listening to current and older episodes and hearing all of your theories. My kids are named Lily and James (yes, after them!) and I have loved Harry Potter since 2000 when I was in law school and needed something fun to read over a school break.
When I first read in Chapters 3 and 4 about Dumbledore’s visit to Privet Drive and Slughorn’s temporary ‘home,’ I assumed Dumbledore was just quirky and odd. However, after I read in Chapter 22 what Harry’s experience was like under the effects of Felix Felicis, I realized that’s exactly what Dumbledore used to ensure the Dursleys cooperated with his request to allow Harry to return, Sirius’s will would have effectively conveyed Number 12 Grimmauld Place to Harry, and Slughorn would return to teaching at Hogwarts. Dumbledore acts very un-Dursleyish and is practically begging the Dursleys to expel both of them from the house, and he spends most of his time at Slughorn’s in the bathroom and then says he knows a lost cause when he sees one. Those are not the typical ways a person would try to get what they want. There is no flattery or begging. He doesn’t even really ask Slughorn to come back – Slughorn just assumes it and discusses it with Harry. On the very first page of Chapter 5, Mrs. Weasley expresses surprise that they arrived in the middle of the night, and Dumbledore replies, ‘We were lucky.’ When Slughorn teaches the first day of Potions class, he already has a bottle of Felix Felicis brewed, although I doubt he carried it with him or had the ingredients to brew it while on the run. I believe Dumbledore had brewed it and only used enough for a few hours’ luck.”
Eric: So this is kind of crazy, but for me, it explains Chapter 3 a little bit.
Andrew: Yeah, definitely a crackpot theory that seems possible, but I think the elements that Beth explains can be explained otherwise, like for example, the Dursleys cooperating with Dumbledore. They cooperated because they were scared of him. They knew he had the upper hand. He could do whatever he wanted to them.
Kendra: And they’ve let him come back every year, so why would this one be so different?
Eric: Yeah, it’s a sure thing. I think that… but maybe the Felix is what told Dumbledore to be so aggressive, because this is not like normal Dumbledore, right? We just talked about how he’s a little bit more aggressive, and between this chapter and the next one, where he frankly just disappears to go to the bathroom or whatever… it’s a very strategic exit, and I think we all know it’s a strategic exit. So the question becomes: Is there evidence to suggest he was under Felix, both in this chapter and the next one?
Andrew: Maybe Dumbledore is more aggressive because he just… the clock is ticking. He doesn’t have much time to screw around anymore; like, “I need to get stuff done, and quickly. I don’t have time for this nonsense anymore. Look, you’re going to help, and that’s that. You’re going to do this for me.” And then in terms of Slughorn eventually coming around, to joining Hogwarts, I think Slughorn – and we’ve probably discussed this before – Slughorn just… he wants to feel… he wants purpose again. He wants to do something.
Kendra: And Dumbledore knew that he wouldn’t be able to resist trying to collect Harry, which is why he brought Harry with him, and kind of explains why he disappears as well.
Andrew: Right.
Kendra: But I do like the theory.
Andrew: Yeah, I do too. It is crackpot. That is a great crackpot theory.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: All right, so if you have any questions or comments about Half-Blood Prince Chapter 4, send them in; MuggleCast@gmail.com. We also have a contact form on the website. You can also call our voicemail line with a question; we might play it on the air. 1-920-3-MUGGLE; that’s 1-920-368-4453. We’ll also try to do another Patreon question at Patreon.com/MuggleCast. I’m enjoying this so far. It’s fun revisiting this book.
Eric: Yeah, it’s a good book. It’s only going to get better, so that’s even cooler.
Andrew: Yeah, and I’m realizing maybe this is one of my favorite books, because I’ve enjoyed the three chapters thus far and analyzing them.
Eric: Glad to hear it.
Quizzitch
Andrew: Time for some Quizzitch.
Eric: Last week’s question was what piece of Muggle technology did Harry fix that he relies on in Chapter 3? The answer is an alarm clock. I guess Harry took a page out of Arthur Weasley’s book, and has taken to repairing Muggle electronic components. Don’t know how he did it without using magic, but maybe he’s just gifted. The answer was the alarm clock, and the people who got the correct answer and submitted it to us over on Twitter include Sean Brady, Andrea F., Joe T., Ruthie, Hana, Aiden, Karen, Jessica, Count Ravioli, Erin Duffy, Muggle Zoologist, Robyn, Danielle, Becky, Lauren, Charlie, Homechikki, Sara, Lara, Brigham, Jason, Tommy, and Olivia. Congratulations to all the winners who got that question right. This is a game we play over on Twitter, and during the Chapter by Chapter episodes, we are basing each question off the upcoming chapter, the one we have not read yet, so next week’s question is based on Chapter 4 of Half-Blood Prince. Question is: Who gave Ambrosius Flume his first job, thanks to Slughorn?
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Slughorn is only too happy to boast about this, so pretty easy to find.
Andrew: Completely forgot about this character, Ambrosius Flume.
Eric: You know what bothers me? Is… were you at the…? It was a Harry Potter trivia night in Chicago where they did faces from the movies and asked us to name the characters, and they took a still shot of the back of Honeydukes – a random background, two-second shot of Honeydukes – and the answer was supposed to be that the guy in it was Ambrosius Flume. He’s never mentioned by name in the movie, so I call BS.
Andrew: Oh my… I hate when they do that.
Eric: Yeah, they took an extra and said that that was Ambrosius Flume, the proprietor of Honeydukes.
Andrew: Right.
Eric: Ugh, so annoying.
Andrew: Part of the problem with that is these quizmasters tend to actually not know Harry Potter, which can be really frustrating. They’ll mispronounce names, or if you try to challenge them, they won’t have an answer to something. They’re just kind of doing their job, which is hosting a trivia night, but everybody there is a huge Harry Potter fan, so it’s kind of an awkward situation a lot of the time. [laughs]
Eric: I will never forgive and I will never forget. [laughs] But Ambrosius Flume was apparently an extra in the background of Honeydukes, so there you go.
Andrew: Allegedly, sure. Sure, man. Whatever you say. But nobody’s going to know that.
Eric: But people will know who gave him his first job, so send us your Quizzitch replies via Twitter. @ us at MuggleCast.
Andrew: There you go. So next week we will do Chapter 4 of Half-Blood Prince, pending any major breaking news that happens. But also, I want to have my boyfriend on the show, because he visited the Wizarding World of Harry Potter for the first time a few days ago with me, and I thought it’d be interesting to talk about a first time going into the Wizarding World with so much to do. We’ve always spoken about it from the perspective of “Oh, Hogsmeade is open, okay,” and then, “Oh, Diagon Alley is open, okay,” but what’s it like going into it, experiencing this entire huge Wizarding World for the first time? And he’s a huge Harry Potter fan. And also, he’s the only person playing Hogwarts Mystery, as far as I can tell, and he’s addicted to it, so we’ll talk about that as well. We’ll finally get a good review of that game on this show. [laughs]
Eric: The whole episode should just be interviewing your boyfriend about… [laughs] I mean, it’s all good stuff.
Andrew: Yeah, yeah. First time and only… yeah, I thought it’d be interesting. Kendra, thanks for joining us today. It was nice having you on.
Kendra: Yeah, thanks for having me. It was super fun.
Andrew: Yeah, it was good. And you write some Harry Potter stuff over on Hypable; some good reads over there, so thanks for your help there as well. Yeah, so a couple plugs to wrap up the show here: Our website, MuggleCast.com, gives you everything you need to stay up to date on this podcast. Don’t forget to follow and like us on Facebook.com/MuggleCast and Twitter.com/MuggleCast, and also, we would love your support at Patreon.com/MuggleCast. You will get lots of bonus content. You can listen to us record the show on Saturday or Sunday of every week, so you kind of get early access to each episode, and you can chime in as we’re recording, so you can be a part of the show. We also give you early access to show notes. We have our exclusive Facebook group, which is a lot of fun. We do the physical gift every year – hashtag mugs – and the bonus MuggleCast segments. We just got that new one up, Eric’s panel at LeakyCon about the Grangers, the Granger parents. So I think that’s that. Thanks, everybody, for listening. I’m Andrew.
Eric: I’m Eric.
Micah: I’m Micah.
Kendra: And I’m Kendra.
Andrew: See everybody next time. Goodbye.
Eric: Bye!