Transcript for MuggleCast Episode #403, Partygood (HBP Chapter 15, The Unbreakable Vow)
Show Intro
[Show music plays]
Andrew Sims: Welcome to MuggleCast Episode 403. I’m Andrew.
Eric Scull: I’m Eric.
Micah Tannenbaum: I’m Micah.
Laura Tee: And I’m Laura.
Andrew: And we have a Slug Club member joining us this week, Kristy. Welcome to the show, Kristy!
Kristy: Woo-hoo! Thank you. Glad to be here.
Andrew: Where are you podcasting from this morning?
Kristy: I am podcasting from Elkton, Maryland, so I’m in the upper corner of Maryland, right where Pennsylvania, Delaware, and Maryland all meet.
Andrew: Oh, do they have a four corners monument like they do out west?
Kristy: We do not, unfortunately.
[Andrew and Kristy laugh]
Andrew: So let’s get your fandom ID. In one breath, please give us your favorite book, movie, Hogwarts House, Ilvermorny House, Patronus, and – this week’s theme – favorite Slug Club member.
Kristy: All right, my favorite book is Goblet of Fire; favorite movie is Chamber of Secrets; Hogwarts House, I honestly have no idea, because every time Pottermore redoes the quiz, it Sorts me into a different House, so I’ve been Sorted into all four.
Andrew: Oh!
Kristy: [laughs] However, I mostly associate with Gryffindor. Ilvermorny, I am Thunderbird. My Patronus is a dolphin; basic white girl over here.
[Andrew laughs]
Kristy: And favorite Slug Club member is Hermione.
Andrew: Why is your favorite movie Chamber of Secrets?
Kristy: I really enjoy the first two movies a lot because they’re so close to the actual text, and I feel like after those first two movies, they went much further from what the books said.
Andrew: Okay, that’s fair.
Eric: Sure.
Andrew: Did you enjoy Crimes of Grindelwald?
Kristy: I did. Overall as a movie, I thought it was well done. The cinematography was beautiful. The acting was well done. The special effects are really cool. I agree with a lot of the points that you guys have made here on the show, where the writing was super sloppy and just very confusing, and I left the theater being like, “What just happened?” [laughs]
Andrew: Well, Crimes of Grindelwald will be released digitally mid-February, so we can all figure it out together.
Kristy: Absolutely.
Andrew: I guess we should have it figured out by now, because we do have the screenplay. I still have it sitting here on my desk for whenever we need to reference it here on the show, but… anyway, so we have a lot to get to today. We are going to have Chapter by Chapter; we will be doing Half-Blood Prince Chapter 15, “The Unbreakable Vow.” But Micah, first we have a update concerning our Patreon.
Micah: Yeah, so each month we do a giveaway over on our Patreon, and this month, I was tasked with coming up with a box of crap. But instead of going with a box of crap… or stuff, right? I’m sorry, I shouldn’t say “crap,” right?
Andrew: No, we call it a box of crap.
Micah: Oh, you did. Okay.
Andrew: We call it that lovingly.
[Kristy laughs]
Micah: Lovingly. Okay, well, in that case, my box of crap was a full set of the paperback editions in the US of the Harry Potter series, still wrapped – it hasn’t been opened – and Cori, one of our patrons, she was the lucky winner, so I will be sending that out to her this weekend, and hopefully she enjoys.
Andrew: Okay.
Laura: Yeah, congratulations. That’s awesome.
Andrew: Eric and I, when we put together our boxes of crap, it was a variety of Harry Potter stuff. Do you just not have a variety of things to give away?
Micah: I… I don’t know. I mean, there’s some stuff that I have that I actually want to keep.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Andrew: Right.
Micah: Well, the way I would phrase it is most of the stuff that I have, I’d want to keep. And I just happened to have an extra set of the books – I think Scholastic probably sent it at one point when I was working at MuggleNet for some sort of review – and I know that people are always looking for the books, and I thought it was a pretty cool giveaway.
Eric: It’s cool that you were able to review that boxset without opening it, Micah.
Micah: Well, something would tell me that I would have read the series already, but…
Eric: Oh, yeah. Sure.
Andrew: [laughs] Yeah, why open them? It’s a fair point. I feel like you’re being a little greedy; maybe you should part with more of your things. You need to watch Tidying Up, and then I bet you’ll be willing to put together a box of variety crap.
[Eric and Kristy laugh]
Micah: Oh, okay. Well, some of the stuff you were showing on the hangout earlier, would you include that in a giveaway?
Andrew: I might. I might, actually. Yeah, I don’t need to hold on to all this.
Micah: You might want to clean up Hagrid’s beard a little bit first.
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: We did do a hangout on video earlier for our Slug Club patrons, and I did a little show and tell. Laura, we’re going to have to have you do a box of crap as well. Do you have some stuff you can give away at some point?
Laura: Oh, God. To be honest, most of the memorabilia I have is stuff that I will not be parting with…
Micah: You see?
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: … so I’m happy to put together a box of crap, but it might require me to do a little bit of shopping.
Andrew: No, that’s not what we want! We want stuff that’s been sitting in your house for ten years. [laughs] All right.
Laura: I’ll inventory it and get back to you.
Andrew: Let us know. Get back to us.
Micah: I still…
Andrew: I’m going to… go ahead.
Micah: No, I was going to say I have some MuggleNet stickers I can throw in, if that’ll make you feel better.
Eric: I’m telling you, yeah! That’s what we’re talking about here.
Andrew: Exactly. I’m going to go down to Laura’s place and raid it. I’ll make my own box based on Laura’s stuff.
Laura: Well, I do have some misprinted Millennial shirts for our other podcast.
Andrew: That can go in the MuggleCast one.
[Andrew and Micah laugh]
Laura: And then I think that I’ve also got some random MuggleCast shirts somewhere? I don’t know. I’ll have to check.
Andrew: There you go. It’s coming together. It sounds like it’s coming together.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: Anyway. Also, we did get some feedback I just wanted to quickly include here at the top of the show. This is from @CreativeWaters on Twitter.
“Yo MuggleCast, re: your last convo, how about some love for Ginny’s emotional maturity? She had her life saved by her celebrity crush and was still able to move forward with her own relationships, not obsessing over Harry, being her own person. Contrast that with Snape, whose childhood friend became a crush that turned to harmful obsession that he continued on her child. Take the lesson on moving forward on your own after rejection or disinterest.”
Eric: Okay.
Andrew: All right, fine. Point well taken.
Laura: 100%.
Andrew: I think this person is saying that we didn’t give Ginny enough credit.
Micah: Really?
Andrew: And Eric, I’ll blame you for that, because you’re the number one Ginny fan.
Eric: I am the number one Ginny fan. And there was a comment that Laura made that I think she’s going to make again about Ginny, and I’m going to call her out on it in our discussion.
Laura: That’s totally fine.
Andrew: Oooh.
Eric: I just want more details! I am perplexed by what you said about Ginny last time.
Micah: You just want her illustrated in one of the upcoming illustrated editions.
[Everyone laughs]
Laura: No, I just…
Eric: Is it really so much to ask to get a portrait of Ginny?
Kristy: It’s not at all.
Andrew: “Draw me like one of your French girls.”
Laura: Oh my God.
Eric: Oh, God.
Micah: You’ll get it in the epilogue, Eric. You’ll have to wait till Deathly Hallows.
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: “Oh, he left out Ginny.”
Micah: And that won’t even technically be book Ginny, so you’ll have to take it up with the illustrator.
Eric: Oh, Jim Kay.
Andrew: [laughs] Is he on Twitter? You can start tweeting him now.
Eric: Oh, he might be.
Andrew: We’ll also have… speaking of feedback, we have some voicemails to listen to later in today’s episode as well.
Eric: Yep, but first we’d like to tell all of our listeners about our new sponsor this week on MuggleCast, Open Fit.
[Ad break]
Chapter by Chapter: Seven-Word Summary
Andrew: Okay, it’s time now for Chapter by Chapter. This week we are doing Chapter 15, “The Unbreakable Vow,” in Half-Blood Prince. We’re going to start, as always, with our Seven-Word Summary. Eric, you start today.
Eric: Harry…
Andrew: … parties…
Laura: [laughs] … hard…
Micah: … when…
Kristy: … with…
Andrew: Wait, the last word was “when.”
Micah: Yeah, that works.
Andrew: Oh, “when with.” Okay, yeah.
Eric: … Luna…
[Kristy and Laura laugh]
Andrew: Harry parties hard when with Luna… okay, I’ll just say Lovegood.
Eric: All right.
Andrew: No, Partygood.
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: Harry parties hard when with Luna Partygood. Okay, sure.
Chapter by Chapter: Main Discussion
Andrew: So a lot of what happened in the previous chapter kind of carries over to this chapter, isn’t that right, Eric, in terms of romance?
Eric: Yeah, it is, and it’s only getting more and more intense. In fact, the chapter opens… it’s gotten to the point where Harry has resorted to his incredible knowledge of Hogwarts’s secret passages to escape the groups of girls that are hoping to, I don’t know, entrap him or hoping to get him in their company. And now, to make matters worse, Hagrid has started decorating for Christmas, the hallways all have mistletoe and things hanging from them, and so Harry is just having a real heck of a time avoiding these girls. And I’m just asking, what is the big deal about all of this? Is this an overreaction on Harry’s part? Would it really be so bad if he wound up, I don’t know, being expected to kiss somebody? What’s going on here?
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: Yeah, well, my question would be, if we flipped the tables and said this were Hermione being stalked by a bunch of boys who were trying to catch her under a mistletoe, I don’t think we would feel that way.
Eric: I think that’s fair.
Laura: I think it’s totally valid that Harry is trying to avoid unwanted sexual attention.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: Yeah, and also, I think from our perspective – or from his age at that perspective – one would think, “Oh, wow, getting the girl. That’s so exciting. What a good problem to have.” But when he’s been in the spotlight for so long, that type of attitude has worn off, and he doesn’t need any more attention. And he also wants real love. He doesn’t want these mistletoe kisses.
Laura: Yeah, and he knows who he wants, so there’s that.
Andrew: Right.
Micah: Kind of.
Laura: Eh, he knows. He’s in denial.
Kristy: Right, and it’s not like these are ladies he knows either; they’re just random girls that are stalking him in the halls as he’s trying to go to class.
Andrew: Yeah, this was never a problem when I was a kid in school.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: Nobody wanted to kiss me.
Micah: Don’t take this the wrong way, but I think honestly at this point, he’s more focused on Draco than he is on any of the girls that are trying to pay him attention.
Laura: Oh, heck yeah.
Eric: He’s certainly getting there.
Andrew: And that’s where all the fanfiction stems from.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: Definitely by the end of this chapter that will be true. So I guess Harry is just a pretty cool, pretty desirable guy. It’s just the whole school seems to know that he has an open spot for Slughorn’s party, which is coming up.
Micah: Eric, he’s the Chosen One.
Eric: They want to get in that spot. I guess he’s attractive. I don’t know.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: Or maybe Slughorn’s parties have really become so legendary and well known in the school that it’s a prime invite.
Micah: We need to talk about that too when we get to that part of the chapter, because there’s some wacky stuff going on at his party.
Laura: Yeah, there is.
Eric: That’s for sure. But talking about chapter crossover or bleed-through from previous chapters, Ron, as ever, is even more of a git, and he’s taken to… now that he’s found success, or at least snogging with Lavender, he’s taken to justifying his actions by complaining and complaining and complaining about Hillary’s – oh, sorry, Hermione’s emails.
[Laura and Micah laugh]
Eric: All of her past correspondence with Krum is being thrown into the air, and he says, “She can’t complain. She snugged Krum. So she’s found out someone wants to snog me too. Well, it’s a free country. I haven’t done anything wrong.” And Harry, as always, is in this position of mediating, of being the in-between. He’s got to kind of… he just goes quiet and puts up with it, and it’s even said that Ron is going off talking about it being a free country, when Harry is thinking of other stuff. And I’m just… this is so annoying to me. This is worse than Ron was in the last chapter.
Laura: Yeah, it’s a lot of immaturity and jealousy going on here, and I found myself feeling annoyed as well because I was like, “Yeah, Ron, you’re totally right; you can make out with whoever you want to, but you don’t need to justify it. Just leave it alone.”
Andrew: Yeah, live your own life.
Eric: And we still don’t really have confirmation that Hermione did kiss Krum. Ron asked Harry that, and Harry is just like, “Yeah, maybe.” Not that that matters, like you’re saying, Laura. He should just take this new development in his own romantic life for the benefit that it is, the experience he’ll get from it, whatever, and not have… he’s just not confronting his feelings. He’s not confronting the fact that he’d much rather be kissing Hermione, and instead is making matters, I think, exponentially worse. So we got a tweet during the week following our last episode from Karishma, and she said, “So basically MuggleCast came for Ron’s throat on this week’s episode, and I’m only feeling a little bit salty! #WeasleyIsMyKing.” I know she meant it a little bit of a joke, she said after that, but are we being unfair to Ron? Were we unfair to Ron last episode? What do you guys think?
Laura: No. I think he and Hermione are both being incredibly immature, and I have some points I’ll address in terms of Hermione later on in this discussion, but something that I think is worth bringing up about Ron… I think that Ron is emblematic of the fact that change is possible. Right? We see Ron throughout the series being incredibly insensitive, being incredibly prejudiced against things that he doesn’t understand, and of course, by the end of the series, he’s gone through this arc where he’s made a transformation and he improves on all of those things. So yeah, we’re critiquing Ron now, but we definitely recognize that he comes out the other end of this, and his character development is all the better for it.
Andrew: Right. But I would also say that we are being unfair to Ron, however, we must understand that this is just naturally what you feel at this age; you get really jealous. And you add the fact that he had never kissed somebody before, other than Aunt Muriel, [laughs] so it’s just a really awkward position for him to be in, and I actually feel bad for him at the same time.
Micah: And I’m not sure there’s another point in the series where Ron and Hermione get forced to the forefront of the story as much as they do right now.
Laura: Right.
Micah: I’m sure there are other examples of that, and obviously we are all seeing this through the eyes of how it impacts Harry and his life day to day. But I mean, we were also talking last episode about what exactly Ron has been through in his life, being that sixth child when his mother wanted to have a daughter, and the scene with the Horcrux, Eric, I think you quoted that last week. So maybe we’re not… I mean, I feel like we see a lot of the good side of Ron – the comedic side of him, the good friend side of him – so this is just one of those times where, just like we would call out any other character, we’re just calling him out on the way that he’s been behaving.
Andrew: Interesting point about them being brought to the forefront, Hermione and Ron, and it’s over something so inconsequential. [laughs]
Eric: Oh, are you kidding? They’re 16. Relationships are everything! [laughs]
Andrew: Well, inconsequential in the long game.
Micah: What I find interesting, too, is that we’ve seen fights between Harry and Ron – probably the biggest one being in Goblet of Fire – we’ve seen Ron and Hermione now, but I don’t know that we’ve ever seen Harry and Hermione at odds with each other.
Eric: That’s because they’re perfect for one another.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Micah: Delusional, Eric. You’re delusional.
Andrew: Well, in the very beginning, before they were friends, that was probably the other worst moment. But you’re right.
Eric: Yeah, yeah. When Harry and Hermione disagree, they kind of try… they have enough respect for one another to see where the other is coming from, or at least, not to really get into it or do any personal attacks. Hermione may disagree with Harry’s Half-Blood Prince book, but ultimately, she’s not letting it come in between their friendship, which we see in this next scene that takes place in the library. So unfortunately, it’s gotten to the point where Ron is so public with his displays of affection that Hermione has taken to just hanging out in the library, which, that’s okay. She’s comfortable there. But her and Harry… Harry’s got to go there to visit her, so he does. But in the library, we learn apparently not only is the girl situation very, very bad – Hermione just encountered a group of girls saying they wanted to sneak a love potion into Harry’s, I don’t know, drink or whatever, so hey-o, watch out – but that when Harry figures out how they’re getting them into the school, it’s through Fred and George’s mail order service. And this is something where the best intentions that people may have… we’ve always loved Fred and George. I think Book 5 and their development into the Weasleys Wizard Wheezes is all really, really exciting. But here’s an unfortunate unintended consequence, which reminds me of the first chapter of this book, when the British Prime Minister is like, “Hey, you guys have magic,” and Kingsley or whoever says, “Oh, yeah, the other side does too.” Big deal, because good guys and bad people, girls with ill intent, will use these love potions that they can get into the school past the Secrecy Sensors, all because of Fred and George’s brilliance.
Andrew: Yeah. Is it free two-day shipping like it is on Amazon, I wonder?
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: Well, you make a good allegory. There’s reasons why Amazon is not a good company for the world to have in it. But we do love our free two-day shipping, don’t we?
Andrew: We do, yeah. But the love potions continue to make me uncomfortable in these later years of my life. [laughs] When you’re reading this as a kid, you’re like, “Oh, love potion, whatever.” But love potion, these days in the Me Too era, it’s date rape, and it makes me uncomfortable. Do you feel the same way, Laura? Kristy?
Laura: Yeah, totally.
Kristy: Absolutely.
Andrew: Do you think if J.K. Rowling wrote this today, she would write love potions differently?
Laura: I don’t know. I think – again, and I’m kind of touching on a point I brought up earlier – there’s sort of an interesting disconnect here, especially during the time when these books were written. I think a lot of people are getting to the point where they realize that men can also be victims of sexual harassment and assault, but at the time these books were written, it was still pretty socially accepted that men could not be victims. So I think it’s actually really important that we’re seeing this in the books, because it’s reflective of that particular attitude.
Eric: Yeah, that’s very interesting.
Laura: Obviously people aren’t really… you don’t really see men in these books talking about giving women love potions…
[Eric laughs]
Laura: … and that’s because, for the time they were written, everybody would have been like, “Whoa, that’s really rapey.” But then for women to give men love potions, it’s like, “Oh, well, it’s different,” and it’s like, “No, it’s really not.”
Andrew: Yeah, it’s a great point.
Laura: So I don’t know. I think it’s important, given the time that the books were written, and given all the social attitudes that existed at that point.
Andrew: Totally.
Micah: And do you think that it’s coincidence that just a few chapters ago we were discussing Tom Riddle’s mother and father coming together over whether it was a love potion or some sort of charm? And then here in this chapter, we see love potions come up again, related to Harry.
Laura: Yeah, again, super rapey.
Eric: Yeah. Do you think we’re supposed to think that the ends that would be achieved by a love potion are just harmless kissing – fun, these girls just want Harry to kiss them – or is there something more sinister under the surface? What is J.K. Rowling’s intention here?
Andrew: I don’t think that’s J.K. Rowling’s intention, something sinister. I think it’s through the lens of these kids are not thinking about what a love potion actually does on a deeper level.
Eric: Right.
Andrew: They’re just thinking about getting a kiss this afternoon, or getting an invite to the party.
Laura: Yeah, well, I also think about sort of teenage attitudes towards alcohol, right? We all remember being teenagers, and back then, there was this kind of accepted attitude of, “Oh, if we get a little drunk, things might happen; we don’t really know.” And as teenagers, you go into that sort of naively thinking that that’s innocent, and really it’s not, and that’s just something that you learn as you age and mature a little bit. So I kind of liken the love potion here to the same sort of alcohol effect that we would experience in the Muggle world.
Kristy: Right, they’re not thinking of deeper consequences, or Eric, you brought up those sinister, deeper things that could happen from it. They’re just like, “Oh, let’s get a kiss.” Or “Let’s get Harry to take me to the party, get Harry to notice me.” And that’s kind of the theme we see throughout not only this chapter, but other books as well, like when Ron accidentally gets the love potion that was meant for Harry.
Laura: Exactly.
Kristy: He’s all googly-eyed.
Eric: Yeah. So in addition to coming to terms with the fact that Fred and George’s brilliance can be used for bad, and that love potions might be particularly creepy, just connecting the threads here a little bit: We do know from later in the book that Draco is also a recipient of a Fred and George Weasley product, and it’s not a love potion, so far as I’m aware, but also, Draco does use the Peruvian Instant Darkness Powder. It was advertised earlier in this book, and Draco uses it, I believe, in a crucial moment to escape from Harry and maybe some of his other students. I’m forgetting if it’s during the battle when the Death Eaters are in the castle, or what, but that’s definitely used, and Malfoy definitely got it from Fred and George. So I like the idea that there’s just consequences to Fred and George’s brilliance, that it’s not all happy, fun time.
Andrew: Well, you also wonder if they should have sold that to Draco, because they have an idea that he might be up to no good. But I guess on the other hand, they’re just being wise businessmen. “Yeah, we want to make some money off the Malfoy family. Sounds good to me.”
Laura: I mean, also, they may not have known that they were selling it to him. I mean, if he ordered it, or if somebody ordered it for him.
Andrew: That’s true.
Eric: Yeah, for sure.
Andrew: I use a fake name sometimes on Amazon, to disguise my identity.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Eric: What’s your fake name on Amazon?
Andrew: Eric Scull.
Eric: Oh. [laughs] It helps because we share the P.O. Box, so you can just get stuff shipped there.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Well, okay, so while Harry and Hermione are in the library, though, we got a ship alert. I’m so thrilled to have Laura back on the show to talk about this when this stuff comes up.
Laura: Oh, yes.
Eric: [laughs] Because Madam Pince comes over because they’re talking a lot, or whispering, whatever, too loudly, and Madam Pince kind of ruins the lovely retreat that they have here. But Harry confides to Hermione he’s always suspected that Madam Pince and Argus Filch, the caretaker, might be in love, or might have something going on. And this is just sort of a throwaway line; we don’t really have any context from previous books that I can remember. But do you guys buy this? And what kind of romance would you like to see between those two if it’s a thing?
Laura: [laughs] I definitely read this as more of a joke than anything. Having said that, as Eric mentioned, I used to be a MuggleNet fanfiction moderator back in the day, and I can tell you based on that, any ship is possible.
[Eric laughs]
Laura: I’ve read way stranger pairings than that one, like – and I’m not kidding – Minerva McGonagall and the giant squid, so why not?
Andrew: [laughs] Well, actually, I don’t find this pairing too crazy, because Madam Pince… [pronounces it “Pines”] Is that how we’re pronouncing her name? Or Pince?
Laura and Micah: Pince.
Andrew: Pince, okay. Madam Pince, she is very organized, as we see in this chapter. She gets mad when she sees Hermione, is it, writing in the notes of the book?
Laura: No, it was Harry.
Andrew: Oh, Harry. The Half-Blood Prince notes.
Eric: She’s scandalized.
Andrew: Yeah, and Filch similarly likes collecting things, keeping them… he takes things from people and he stores them, or maybe puts them back where they belong. I feel like there’s a little overlap here in terms of organization, in terms of protecting things.
Laura: Yeah, they’re both pretty domineering over what they perceive to be their dominions, so yeah, I can see it. Why not?
Andrew: And they both are not really appreciated as much as they should be, so maybe they relate over that as well. Appreciated at Hogwarts.
Eric: Yeah, for sure. I think they both keep the gears turning and deserve to find happiness. I’m just thinking of Mrs. Norris.
Andrew: [laughs] “Deserve to find happiness.” Does Filch deserve happiness? He is grumpy. Maybe being with somebody would help.
Eric: He is a singularly unpleasant human being. I just worry what Mrs. Norris has to say about Madam Pince being in Filch’s life.
Andrew: Well, come on.
Eric: Okay, moving on.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: We do get to Transfiguration class… that was a joke, by the way. Okay, moving on.
[Kristy laughs]
Andrew: I hope the librarian is a cat person.
Eric: Oh, yeah.
Andrew: That’s all I’ll say.
Eric: Yeah, that’s true.
Andrew: Because sometimes in relationships, maybe one person isn’t a dog person or a cat person, you know?
Eric: Yeah, and it’s like, what do you do? Do you not stay at that person’s place or whatever?
Andrew: Where is Mrs. Norris’s litter box?
Eric: Oh.
Andrew: Do magical cats poop?
Laura: Well, if they do, somebody can just vanish their poop. Duh.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Andrew: That’s nice.
Micah: I mean, I don’t want to go back to our previous discussion about…
Andrew: Well, I mean, that makes sense. I guess that’s better than having a litter box, because a litter box can smell, you’ve got to clean it, the poops builds up in there… yuck.
Micah: Her and Fang just have a spot that they go to.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: I can just imagine Mrs. Norris going up seven flights, stories of stairs, to get to the litter box. There’s one litter box in all of the castle she just always goes to. It’s just crazy.
[Kristy laughs]
Eric: Imagine a good… that’s a good playground for a cat to have.
Andrew: Oh, yeah.
Eric: Mrs. Norris is probably the queen of the castle.
Andrew: Yeah. And I mean, we pet owners, we always enjoy seeing our animals – specifically dogs – run free in a dog park or something. Hogwarts is just one big park for them to… for Mrs. Norris to run around in.
Eric: Yeah, and we know that students are allowed to bring their own cats or toads and stuff. We really only ever see Crookshanks and Mrs. Norris or whatever, but there’s got to be maybe a whole posse of cats. It’d be like the Aristocats, Hogwarts edition…
[Laura laughs]
Eric: … where there’s societal implications. I don’t know. Very interesting to think about.
Andrew: Where are the dogs? Not enough dogs.
Eric: Yeah, not enough dogs.
Andrew: I know this is off track.
Eric: Just Sirius Black that one year. But moving on, we get to Transfiguration class. Ron and Hermione have a confrontation. Hermione laughs at Ron. Ron does an unflattering impression of Hermione. Are we not past the whole making fun of Hermione for raising her hand all the time? Is that not strictly a year one thing that Ron has got to do that and imitate her?
Laura: Well, I think in this case, he’s trying to needle her in any way he can, and he knows that this is something that is going to make her feel insecure, so he knows how to push her buttons. And I mean, they’re still 16, so a lot of immaturity.
Eric: Yeah, he’s not looking for resolution with Hermione. He’s looking to… at this moment in this stage, he’s looking to just make it as bad as possible, I think, which at least we have the benefit of, as an adult, being like, “Okay, that’s not very smart.” But as a teenager, I think you rarely have that perspective.
Kristy: Right, and with what his mindset is right now, he’s just going to take any low blow that he can, so however he can push those buttons, like Laura said, he’s going to do it because he’s personally attacked, or so he feels.
Eric: Yeah. You know, in Transfiguration – I found this to be interesting – they’re changing the colors of their eyebrows or whatever, and when Ron doesn’t do it right, he grows a mustache. So now I’m trying to think how this magic works, that it just adjusts your facial features or whatever, what the spell is that could both change colors of an eyebrow and grow a handlebar mustache. But it’s not important.
Andrew: I think it just speaks to how badly spells can go wrong. They can be unpredictable if you don’t do them correctly.
Micah: Or how bad at Transfiguration Ron might be.
Andrew: That too.
Eric: Am I wrong in thinking that the Ron in Cursed Child that we saw had a mustache? Do you guys remember?
Andrew: I think that is wrong. [laughs]
Eric: When I think of Ron with a handlebar mustache, I’m like, “Oh, wait, that actor in Cursed Child,” because I thought he looked good with it. But anyway.
Andrew: No, you’re thinking of Voldemort. He had the mustache in Cursed Child.
Eric: Ohh, interesting.
Micah: Or you’re thinking of when Ron takes Polyjuice and turns into the Ministry worker.
Andrew: Oh, yeah. I bet that was it.
Laura: There you go.
Eric: Oh, that might be right. Yep, okay. Cattermole, Reg. He makes Hermione cry so much that she goes to the bathroom to cry, and actually, who should she run into but Luna? And Harry, picking up Hermione’s extra things that she left in class like a good friend, goes and meets her, goes and sees Luna, and has a brief moment alone with Luna where he asks her to the party, which is that night. So Slughorn’s party is going to be that night. What I found interesting was this isn’t… Harry sometimes solves puzzles where the answer just comes to him and he’s like, “Oh, I’m going to go with this,” but it’s very much written as almost – I’ll quote it – “The words were out of Harry’s mouth before he could stop them; he heard himself say them as though it were a stranger speaking.” So somebody inside Harry, a smarter, more together Harry inside the existing Harry, is like, “Hey, this is a really valid invitation, or a good idea, because Luna is going to be an innocent, perfect person for this kind of task,” and asks her.
Andrew: And he’s been under pressure to find somebody, and he has these girls who have been trying to get him to invite them to the party, and I think it was just a spur of the moment thought. It clicked in his head, and he was just like, “F it. I’m going to do it.” Sometimes we have those, when we’re debating something for a long period of time, and we finally are driven to actually just get it done, and I think that’s what was happening here. It was a part of Harry he’s not used to using, which is, “Just do it.”
Laura: Well, and as the book points out, Luna is very literal and she does take things at face value, so there’s not any chance here that she’s going to read anything into Harry’s invitation. He told her, “We can go as friends,” and she was like, “Okay, well, nobody’s ever asked me to go to anything as friends before; I’m super excited about this,” and she’s possibly the only girl in the school that he doesn’t have to worry about misinterpreting his intentions with inviting her, so it works out perfectly.
Eric: That’s a really good point.
Micah: So Eric, before, were you saying that you thought it was the Horcrux that was asking Luna out when this thing inside of his head…?
Eric: No, I’m just wondering if we can give Harry credit, because it’s a really nice thing that he did for Luna. I think it obviously is the perfect choice, as Laura just said. But can we really credit Harry for this stroke of genius when the words sort of just tumble out?
Andrew: Yes.
Eric: And a second after he utters them, he regrets it and hopes that she says no.
Andrew: Wait, he doesn’t regret it.
Eric: Well, the book says that he already wished that she would decline right after…
Andrew: Oh, right. But maybe it’s because he just didn’t… he was afraid of how she would react?
Eric: Yeah, I don’t know. It’s just a lucky kind of guess on his part, or it’s lucky that he does that, because I think Luna genuinely has a good time, and he does too. He enjoys… once they get there, he’s able to enjoy the fact that she’s there and the presence of her company.
Micah: Do you think that he’s scared of the fact that he would be going with her? Based on what you just said, sort of the image, let’s say, of him taking Luna to this party. Is that what you’re implying, Eric?
Eric: Well, yeah, could it be the same…? Because in Book 5, he has that moment where he’s on the train, in the train compartment with Neville and Luna, and he wishes that his friends were cooler or whatever. I think there might be maybe some lingering feelings that Luna is not cool enough to go to the ball with him, but not really, because again, that’s so far subconscious, but…
Andrew: She also has the reputation of being a weirdo, so it’s not the best look for Harry to have brought the weirdo to the party.
Laura: Yeah, but I think this, again, is representative of some growth for him, because he clearly does have that moment of hesitation, and I think y’all are right that it probably is rooted in Luna’s reputation and what people are going to think when they see them together, but that all sort of melts away when he sees her and they go and have a really good time together. And actually, he ends up being really glad that he brought her, because she’s really great at diverting conversations away from his legacy with her weirdness.
[Eric laughs]
Laura: So I think it’s just a moment of real growth for him, because he sees that as an asset now as opposed to feeling singled out, or like he’s sticking out like a sore thumb as a result of it.
Micah: What would have been the big deal if he just would have gone stag?
Andrew: It’s not a good look. This is just like a ball or a high school dance; the societal pressures tell you to have a date. Now, he is Harry. He is, as you said, Micah, the Chosen One. And I think you’re right, he could have gone alone, and I’m not sure anybody actually would have judged him, but to Harry, he needs to go with somebody, because that’s what you do.
Eric: Yeah, you’ve got to…
Laura: Well, I think also Hermione kept driving this point home, which was that he needed to get somebody locked down to go with him, because if he didn’t, these girls were going to continue trying to stalk him and slip him love potion…
Andrew: Right, a lot at play here.
Laura: … so there was self-preservation at play here.
Eric: Yeah, and you definitely have to quash all the gay rumors before they get started.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Andrew: “He’s by himself? Why does he keep staring at Draco?”
[Laura laughs]
Micah: What if he brought six girls? Three on each arm? That probably wouldn’t have gone over well.
[Kristy laughs]
Eric: Oh, Slughorn would have totally allowed that.
Andrew: That would have enhanced… that would have increased the number of gay rumors.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Andrew: Any guy with a bunch of girls? You know what I’m saying.
Eric: Sure.
Andrew: The hags.
Eric: Oh, God. And so… well, okay, so speaking of character growth and all of that, Hermione, I think, has decided that she is going to fight back. After Ron made her run away from class, leaving half her things to go cry in a bathroom, she’s decided that she will be taking Cormac McLaggen to Slughorn’s party. And this is… I mean, Hermione so clearly in the last chapter was about to ask Ron to go with her before he started this whole thing that screwed everything up, but now she’s taking his arch nemesis, essentially. And Harry thinks this is a low blow for Hermione. I don’t know that I agree. What do you guys think?
Laura: So I made a note here: I don’t really care so much about her trying to show Ron up. I think we would all sort of have that natural inclination, and that’s fine. But she is specifically picking things that she knows are going to annoy him; she specifically says that she asked Cormac because she thought it would annoy Ron the most. And my question for her is, instead of trying to make it look to Ron like you’re living your best life, why aren’t you just living your best life? And think about who you would like to go with, as opposed to who you know that Ron would not like you to go with.
Eric: But what if it’s Ron? Ron is the one that she wants to go with; he’s just making it so difficult for her to, in good conscience, actually ask him.
Laura: Yeah, but I mean, there isn’t a single other boy in the school that she couldn’t see herself having a good time with, even if she’s not necessarily romantically interested? Also, I think about, why didn’t she write to Viktor Krum?
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Laura: And be like, “Hey, there’s this big party. You should come. I think we’ll have a really good time together.” It wouldn’t have had to be an official date or anything romantic, but he’s kind to her, she likes hanging out with him, they kept up correspondence, and that would have really pissed Ron off, so she would have killed two birds with one stone.
Andrew: [laughs] But Viktor would have had to travel a long way for this.
Laura: He would have done it. He would have done it.
Andrew: [laughs] Anything for Hermione.
Micah: And I think they bring this up in the film, but it’s not in the books: Why don’t Harry and Hermione just go together?
Eric and Laura: Yeah.
Laura: That’s a fair point.
Micah: As friends.
Andrew: Well, because Hermione wants to stick it to Ron, right? And going with Harry isn’t as effective as going with somebody else, like Cormac.
Laura: I don’t know. I mean, Ron, especially later on in the series, ends up showing that he has a lot of insecurity about Harry and Hermione’s friendship.
Andrew: Yeah, that’s true.
Eric: Which is unjustified.
Andrew: But Cormac, he’s the hot guy. That’ll really piss off Ron. Because Ron… I’m sorry to people who love Ron, but he’s not the best-looking guy.
Laura: And I mean, Cormac, he also moonlights as an underwear model, so there’s that.
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: And he’s rough. [laughs]
Eric: Oh, man. And I mean, sure enough, Hermione is going to regret it, and does regret it after she does it. I think that might come from… or that might spark the character development you’re talking about, Laura, that maybe she… I can’t think of another example where she really just does something to spite somebody else, and due to how singularly unpleasant her date night with McLaggen becomes, I think she sort of learns that lesson, or might by the end of the chapter.
Laura: I agree.
Andrew: Let’s get to the party. I’ll take the biographer part.
Eric: Okay, yeah.
Andrew: So at the party, like we were saying earlier, there are a lot of oddballs here. And we run into Eldred Worple, author of Blood Brothers: My Life Amongst the Vampires.
Eric: I love that book!
Andrew: [laughs] Yeah, so what I kind of like – because I was a Twilight fan, thank you very much – is that we do get some talk and at least one vampire in this chapter. And we never really experience vampires in the Harry Potter series, but I’ve always wondered how J.K. Rowling would write them. Arguably, she would probably do better than Stephanie Meyer did.
Laura: Uh, yeah. [laughs]
Andrew: But so Eldred Worple says that the time is right for Harry Potter to write his own biography. As Eric wrote here, though, Hermione in year one said that Harry’s name is in several dozen books already, and the Voldemort threat isn’t gone yet, so it doesn’t seem like it’s actually the right time to write Harry’s biography.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Andrew: His story isn’t over yet, right?
Micah: True.
Andrew: So I thought we could play a little game here where we name Harry’s biography, and we made this our Patreon question of the week.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: And I said let’s assume this book is written after the events of Deathly Hallows.
Eric: Okay.
Andrew: My title was “Trouble Finds Me: The Harry Potter Biography.”
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Laura: Mine is “Harry Potter: His Mother’s Eyes.”
Eric: Aww.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: I’m going to go with “Lightning.” Just the word.
Andrew: “Lightning,” okay. That’s good.
Eric: “Lightning: A Harry Potter Biography.”
Laura: I like it.
Kristy: I’d have to go with “Harry Potter: My Time as the Chosen One.”
Micah: I’ll just go with “Harry Potter: Leave Me Alone.”
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: Writing a book wouldn’t help. So patrons came up with some good ones as well. Faith said, “Thanks, Hermione.”
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: “The Art of Expelliarmus.” [laughs]
Eric: Oooh.
Andrew: “Harry Potter: A Scarred Life.” I like that one.
Laura: Oh my God. [laughs]
Andrew: Sorry, I should read who’s actually came up with these ideas. That was Jeffrey. Justin said, “The Art of Expelliarmus.” Did I say the name of the first one? That was Faith. I think I said that. Mandy said, “From the Cupboard to the Chosen One.”
Eric: I love that one.
Andrew: Miranda said, who we just hung out with earlier today, “Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows.”
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: That would be amazing, actually. I think that would work for a book.
Laura: That would be so meta.
Andrew: Yeah. Lauren said, “Harry Potter: The Boy Who Lived, Died, and Lived Again.” That would be an intriguing one, because then you would wonder, “Did he write about the afterlife in his book? What is that like? I need to buy his book to find out.”
Eric: Oh, yeah.
Andrew: “So I was just hanging out with Dumbledore in King’s Cross. Nothing special, you guys.”
Laura: “And I saw fetus Voldemort laying under a bench. It was weird.”
Eric: Yeah, NBD.
[Kristy and Laura laugh]
Andrew: With his mustache.
Eric: It does raise the question how much or how widely known Horcruxes will be. If you ever have to explain to the world at large why Voldemort got as far as he did, or if a biography is ever written of even Tom Riddle, you would eventually have to decide whether you’re going to tell people about Horcruxes, and that might raise awareness; that might create copycat situations where people are trying it. But on the other hand, you’ve kind of got to let people know, to be aware, to warn them, don’t you? The public at large.
Micah: Yeah. It’s very vague, though, because I think if you… or I should say it would be vague, in my mind anyway, because if we’re looking back on the fall of Grindelwald, it was only that Dumbledore defeated him, right? There was no real specifics that we got about how he defeated him, what it took. I almost wonder if the same thing would be true about Voldemort, where it would be very… you wouldn’t get the real details on how Harry went about bringing him down, but I don’t know. There seems to be more people that are in the know. I’m sure there were people who knew what Dumbledore did, just like there are people who know about the Horcruxes and what Harry had to do.
Eric: For sure.
Andrew: But Harry is also not interested in writing this biography, because he’s not one who looks for attention. And he’s also got plenty of money. A lot of people write books to make a quick buck; he doesn’t need that.
Eric and Micah: Yeah.
Micah: And getting back to Eldred Worple, I just found it interesting that Luna mentions Rufus Scrimgeour as a potential vampire in this chapter. I know she often has these odd ramblings, but given that we don’t know a whole lot about him – we were only introduced to him earlier on in this book – did we…? We’re not going to remember, but could that be a possibility that she was about to introduce a vampire to the series? I know there was a ton of theories about Snape being a vampire, but…
Andrew: Oh, yeah. But speaking of vampires, so the vampire that is there is Sanguini, and he’s looking up – he’s eyeing up – a group of female students. The quote is, “The vampire Sanguini, who was tall and emaciated with dark shadows under his eyes, merely nodded. He looked rather bored. A gaggle of girls was standing close to him, looking curious and excited. ‘Sanguini, stay here!’ added Worple, suddenly stern, for the vampire had been edging toward the nearby group of girls, a rather hungry look in his eye. ‘Here, have a pasty,’ said Worple.”
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Andrew: He was about to feed on those girls, and apparently just having a pastry will calm him down.
Eric: Pasty. Yeah, I wonder if that’s like Blood Pops that Honeydukes sells. Does that stave off the hunger for vampires?
Andrew: That’s BS. You need blood. Vampires need blood.
Eric: But do they…? But then what is this…?
Laura: Or maybe the pasty ups his blood sugar, and satiates him for a little while.
Eric: It’s just, why is this vampire here if he’s a danger, if he’s really a danger to these girls? This makes me want to call out Slughorn big time. If Worple is this guy’s only… the only one preventing Sanguini from feasting on these group of girls, then that’s just piss poor safety. [laughs]
Andrew: It’s just another day of living at dangerous Hogwarts. The Whomping Willow could kill you. The moving staircases are dangerous. Quidditch is dangerous. There’s a Basilisk underneath the school. The whole place is problematic.
Laura: [laughs] I’m trying to imagine Andrew attending Hogwarts, and I think you would just be a bundle of anxiety for seven years as you navigate around this dangerous castle.
Andrew: [laughs] Yeah, yeah. I would just try to take my courses online from the dormitories. Seems safe there.
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: “Professor, can you owl me the homework assignment?” The question about vampires, though… because Andrew is right; we don’t see many of them. The reason that I put this first quote in here, that “a gaggle of girls was standing close to him, looking curious and excited…” Do you think it’s surface level excited, or do you kind of get the impression, as I do, that there’s some kind of magic? Maybe the way that Veela work on boys, maybe vampires work this way on women?
[Kristy laughs]
Laura: Yeah, I think especially this is pretty in line with typical vampire lore, which is that young women in particular are very susceptible and are drawn to vampires, that they have sort of a way of enchanting them.
Andrew: I also just took it as, “Wow, we don’t see vampires often, and here’s one right in front of us.”
Eric: Right.
Kristy: It’s an interesting point.
Eric: We don’t, unless Snape is one.
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: So another revelation from this party – before we get to, of course, Draco gatecrashing it – is that drunk Trelawney is racist AF. [laughs] Luna and Harry bump into Trelawney, she smells very openly of cooking sherry, and I think it’s Luna who says that she’s got… oh yeah, Trelawney asks Luna why she hasn’t seen her in… what is…? God.
Laura: Divination, yeah.
Eric: Divination lately. Yeah, and Luna says that she’s got the teacher Firenze, and we find out not only that Trelawney calls Firenze “Dobbin” for no reason – “Or Dobbin, as I prefer to think of him,” she says. “You would have thought, would you not, that now I am returned to the school, Professor Dumbledore might have got rid of the horse?” So she calls him “the horse” as well. Trelawney, this is not okay. [laughs]
Andrew: Yeah, well, she is still really sad about not being the only Divination teacher, and now that she’s drinking to deal with that, her true feelings are coming out. I did find it a little funny that she just flippantly calls him “the horse.” [laughs] I mean, I agree; it’s really bad, but it’s also just funny in the context of the scene.
Eric and Laura: Yeah.
Eric: It’s just there’s a general level of respect you should have for your colleagues that she lacks.
Andrew: Oh, yeah, especially in front of students.
Eric: Oh, God, yeah.
Micah: For sure. And I didn’t know this – I just looked it up – but “Dobbin” is a pet name for a horse, particularly a farm horse.
Eric: Oh.
Micah: It’s rural slang, according to the Internet.
Laura: Yeah. Well, and I mean, this is really reflective of racism and prejudice out in the real world. There was a time – and to be honest, there probably are still parts of this country and parts of the world where this happens – but where teachers would openly refer to colleagues of different genders or races using sort of derogatory terminology, and there was a time in our history where that was sort of accepted, and I think we’re seeing the wizarding world going through this transition where there’s still a lot of leftover prejudice in the older generation that will hopefully die out.
Andrew and Eric: Yeah.
Eric: It’s just if you hear about the two people in this book series that are cruel to centaurs, it’s Umbridge and Trelawney, and you wouldn’t think the two of them would have anything in common. But yeah, I don’t know. Apparently it just doesn’t make Trelawney very easy. So I think drawing the racial comparison to how people are in parts of this country or the world today or recent past I think is real smart. Probably what J.K. Rowling was going for. So then Luna, of course, brings up the Rotfang Conspiracy, which is the last part that I have before we get to Draco crashing. But Snape comes over and Slughorn is very happy that Harry has arrived. He talks to him about the classes, and then Snape makes some kind of jeer about Harry being an Auror, but Luna saves the day with her off-color comments and says, “You don’t want to be an Auror, Harry. The Aurors are part of the Rotfang Conspiracy, I thought everyone knew that. They’re working to bring down the Ministry of Magic from within, using a combination of Dark Magic and gum disease.”
Laura: Hey, Gingivitis, ain’t no joke. It’ll getcha.
Eric: Especially in Britain.
[Laura laughs]
Micah: Ooh.
Laura: Damn, Eric!
Eric: What? Somebody had to say it.
Andrew: She’s crazy. And I did find it interesting that there’s some foreshadowing here concerning Harry’s future, even though Snape didn’t believe in him.
Eric: Yeah, yeah.
Micah: And not only that, I mean, there’s a pretty good discussion that goes on about Harry being good at Potions…
[Kristy laughs]
Micah: … and Snape is trying to, we think, at least kind of penetrate Harry’s mind, and this comes into play a little bit towards the end of the chapter between Snape and Draco. But I just thought that for us as readers… I mean, obviously we know Snape is the Half-Blood Prince, but the fact that Slughorn is talking about how good Harry was, he may even be better than Severus himself. And I mean, to me, that was just more of J.K. Rowling needling and kind of pointing us in the direction that maybe Snape could be the Half-Blood Prince.
Andrew: Well, and do you think Snape is catching on at this point? “Does he have a copy of my book?” Maybe just as a reader, I was feeling that way because we already know, but I was also getting the impression that Harry was starting to play with fire in this scene. Snape could very well find out that he had his book. Because Snape is perplexed by this; he was like, “What? How could he be so good all of a sudden?”
Micah: Right, exactly.
Laura: Yeah, he’s definitely suspicious.
Micah: Agreed. There was almost… you wonder if Snape was trying to read Harry’s mind, and Harry somehow was protecting himself, or maybe Luna bringing up the Rotfang Conspiracy kind of just completely threw him off.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Micah: But we also learn then that Slughorn was Snape’s teacher.
Eric: Yeah, yeah. And he actually says that Harry might have surpassed Snape himself as a potioneer. [laughs] Which is very good, very funny. Well, eventually the party is interrupted. Argus Filch, Madam Pince’s lover, comes in.
[Laura and Micah laugh]
Andrew: Disheveled. Arrives disheveled. Pages of library books all over him.
Eric: [laughs] In the movie, I think he’s grabbing Draco by the ear, if I’m not mistaken?
Andrew: Something like that. Or by the neck, by the collar.
Eric: Yeah. And interestingly… so Harry is watching Snape because Snape just… they had that eye contact before, but Harry thinks he detects genuine fear in Snape’s eyes over this whole situation. So that’s interesting.
[Kristy laughs]
Eric: It’s obviously a plot point, which I want to get into once we have the big reveal. Basically, is Snape fearful because Draco was presumably off somewhere being reckless? And based on what we know, the whole reason this chapter is called “The Unbreakable Vow” is because Snape reveals in Harry’s earshot that he’s taken the Unbreakable Vow. Would Snape die? We’re talking about like Yusuf Kama in Crimes of Grindelwald. What about the things you can’t prevent from happening? Why is the Unbreakable Vow still in effect? Or would the Unbreakable Vow kill Snape if Draco were to meet an untimely death and Snape didn’t do everything he possibly could to save him?
Andrew: Well, let’s first pass this question to you, Kristy. Why do you think Snape has fear in his eyes? In Harry’s eyes.
Kristy: I don’t know if Harry is overanalyzing that situation; that’s what I feel is happening, because he’s just so focused on Snape, Draco, and these people that he thinks are bad, and kind of are, but I feel like he’s overanalyzing it a little bit, personally.
Micah: Well, I think there’s only so many times that these types of things can happen with Draco before other people start catching on – maybe not just Harry, but others – and maybe that’s where some of the fear comes from.
Eric: Oh, that’s interesting. I mean, I think it genuinely had to do with… I mean, you’ve seen how on edge Yusuf Kama is in Crimes of Grindelwald. He thinks that if something doesn’t go exactly according to his own plan, he might die because the Unbreakable Vow might kill him. I think that’s Snape here. Snape, we find out… when Harry listens at the keyhole to the classroom that they go off on and have a chat, Harry finds out that Snape has sent repeated messages to Draco asking him to come to his office, presumably and ostensively to talk about the plan, and Draco has rebuffed them. Draco is not coming. But I think that Snape ultimately, probably had to invite Draco to his office several times so far this year, because I think that the Unbreakable Vow compels him to do so. I think that the Unbreakable Vow, the terms of it being “Will you protect Draco? Will you ensure his safety?” These are things that Draco going off and being reckless is putting in danger. It’s not even for Draco’s own life; I think it’s for Snape’s that Snape is behaving this way.
Andrew: Yeah, I think that’s a fair point. And Draco is resisting these invitations because he is being a typical teenager. He doesn’t want to listen to mom and dad; he wants to do it on his own, which is kind of surprising to me, because I feel like when I was a kid, I didn’t want to listen to my parents, but I did want to listen to my teachers. And Draco knows that Snape could genuinely help him, so for Draco to resist that help is surprising.
Kristy: Is it, though? I feel like if you were given the same task by the Dark Lord, I feel like any of us would feel the same way at that age.
Andrew: To do it yourself?
Kristy: Yeah, in your 16-year-old mindset.
Andrew: Well, maybe. But on the other hand, you don’t want to disappoint the Dark Lord, so shouldn’t you have help to reduce your chances of screwing up?
Eric: It’s just that Draco and Snape were so close.
Micah: Well, he says he does have help, doesn’t he?
Andrew: Does have help? Is that what you said?
Micah: Yeah, he mentions that he does have people. He doesn’t name them specifically, but…
Andrew: Right, but it’s not an adult. Well, I mean, I’m thinking Crabbe and Goyle, it might be, helping him. But Snape could help him in great ways whoever these other hoodlums are probably can’t.
Micah: Well, the other thing that I was thinking about, too, is in terms of helping him, are we talking about helping him actually complete the tasks that he’s been given? Or helping him kind of see the light? And we know that Snape is working on behalf of Dumbledore now. Could it be that maybe he has a way that we don’t know about that he could potentially save Draco?
Eric: I don’t know.
Andrew: Maybe.
Eric: I think it’s clear that the only way that anybody is going to get out of this by the end of the year is if Dumbledore dies. Fortunately, Dumbledore is cursed and dying anyway, so that helps. But I think it’s pretty rough, because the other tenet of the Unbreakable Vow is “If Draco seems likely to fail, will you complete the mission the Dark Lord assigned him?” So no matter what, if Snape wants to stay alive by the end of the year, he has to do it anyway. So maybe his offer to help Draco is like, “Well, clearly I just have to protect you from harm and then do it myself anyway.” He’s either going to let Draco get to that point, or if it’s not in Draco’s nature, do it himself, and that’s exactly what happens. It’s just a shame to see Draco and Snape, who were always so close, this far apart, and Draco accuses Snape of wanting the glory. So pretty interesting. Furthermore, Snape says to Draco that “Auntie Bella has been teaching you Occlumency,” which I find fascinating that Draco had this desire to fool Snape, or to not have his mind read, so much so that he reached out to Bellatrix. Or maybe Bellatrix, who still doesn’t trust Snape after the events of Spinner’s End, has offered to give Draco lessons. But bottom line, it seems like Draco is probably better than Harry is at it.
Andrew: I’m actually surprised that Bellatrix taught him this. She seems pretty scatterbrained to me, and I can’t picture her having the focus to actually pull off Occlumency.
Kristy: Right.
Eric: If it’s to spite Snape, I think she’ll put her head together and get it done.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: She just doesn’t like him! She does not like him.
Kristy: But it’s interesting because she also went to Snape to make sure that Draco would be saved, or that whatever the task was… because I forget if she knew what the task was or not, but she went to Snape.
Eric: Well, that was Narcissa. Narcissa made her go to… yeah, yeah, because it was Narcissa who was fearing for Draco, and Bellatrix opposed it. But Snape’s good Spinner’s End explanation for everything? I’m surprised that it didn’t turn Bella around on him. But guess you can never be too careful. So the end of the chapter: The chapter ends with Draco storming out – Harry has barely enough time to get out of the way – because Snape has mentioned Lucius, and he says words to the effect of “Your father is in Azkaban, I know it’s tough for you, blah, blah, blah,” and then Draco just leaves. So unfortunately, Snape is not able to gain Draco’s audience or compassion.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: And Harry is left stumped.
Andrew: Harry is left stumped. More of the same for Harry in this book.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: Always confused and lost.
Micah: Right. And who’s going to believe him? That’s the big question, right? More of Ron and Hermione just completely dismissing his theories on Draco. Maybe this will change it, finally.
Andrew: Yeah, I mean, it’s some pretty hard evidence.
Connecting the Threads
Eric: So just one note here in connecting the threads – I know we did connect another one earlier – but this is another chapter where it mentions that Harry wants to be an Auror. If we remember back in Book 4, I think it was Barty Crouch, Jr. masquerading as Mad-Eye Moody who first planted the idea in Harry’s head, and we’ve since had that chapter in Book 5 called “Career Advice” where McGonagall kind of gives Harry the assist. And it’s brought up here again, that Harry just… it’s just a natural thing for the Chosen One who’s going to end up defeating Voldemort to become an Auror and chase Dark wizards. But my question is, was there ever another option for Harry? I mean, he’s got a couple other good things that he’s good at.
Andrew: No, well, I’m trying to think back if, when we were reading these books for the first time, did we think all these hints about being an Auror would actually come to pass?
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: I think given Harry’s skillset – he’s very good at Expelliarmus – that he was born to be an Auror. He was destined to become an Auror. What other job would he take on? I think given how many adventures he has in these books, he wasn’t destined for a standard desk job, so…
Eric: No, but there’s Quidditch. He’s a great Seeker for Gryffindor.
Andrew: But to play for a national team? Eh.
Laura: And he’s not really the type who seeks glory. He’s obviously an excellent Quidditch player, but I don’t think that being a pro athlete is something that would necessarily appeal to him.
Andrew: [laughs] Right.
Laura: I see Harry as more of like the Robert Mueller type, quiet and brooding and sort of behind the scenes, but pulling all the strings, having FBI raids done, things like that.
[Eric laughs]
Micah: There you go. Or he could just be a consultant. I mean, he’s taken down Voldemort. What else could you possibly do as an Auror that would equal that?
[Eric laughs]
Laura: Oh my God, it can be his side hustle.
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: Wait, so what’s his main hustle?
Micah: We know he’s got plenty of gold.
Eric: Yeah, that’s true. He does.
Laura: He can charge an hourly rate to consult and help people take down their worst enemies.
Andrew: [laughs] How about be a Quidditch coach at Hogwarts? That would be a fun, simple job. I think he deserves that after everything that happens in these first seven years of his life, or really first 18 years.
Eric: That reminds me, when I graduated high school I was voted in the class as the most likely to return to my high school after the fact. [laughs]
Andrew: Oh. As a teacher, I hope.
Eric: Teacher, or like you said, drama coach or something. Who knows? One of those supplemental employees.
Andrew: Well, you stuck it to them. You said, “I’m not going back to that school. I’m going to be a podcaster.
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: Yeah, but the idea of Harry going back to… we know Neville goes back to Hogwarts and is a successful, well-respected professor, and Ginny is the one who ends up going off and being a Quidditch star for a little while.
Andrew: That’s true.
Eric: So I guess other people are living Harry’s best life.
Micah: Yeah. Harry could teach Defense Against the Dark Arts.
Andrew and Eric: Yeah.
Andrew: Couple comments here from people who are listening live: Anne says, “I’d like to add that the time Hermione told McGonagall about the Firebolt Harry had received and she took it away from him qualifies as a proper fight between Harry and Hermione.”
Laura: Yes! I was trying… because I was like, “I knew there was one time they had an argument,” but I couldn’t remember. Thank you.
Andrew: There you go. Anne’s got our back. Eric also said, “To answer the question of if J.K. Rowling would use love potions the same way today, just reference Fantastic Beasts. I think she would and did use love potions the same way today.” [laughs] Good point.
Eric: Oh.
Andrew: That Queenie stuff was a little strange.
Laura: Yeah, but I mean, also, the story took place long before the Potter books did.
Andrew: That’s right, but the question was would J.K. Rowling still use them in the same way in this current political climate?
Laura: Yeah, I don’t know. I think she’s writing with the time period in mind.
Andrew: Yeah, okay. You heard it from Laura: Women want to date rape people in the 1920s.
[Kristy and Laura laugh]
Laura: Yeah, that’s exactly what I meant.
MVP of the Week
Andrew: All right, MVP of the Week. Micah, you first.
Micah: I went with good old Horace Slughorn, because I think he’s probably the only person in the Potter series that got away with hugging Snape.
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: Eric?
Eric: I went with Luna. She never ceases to amaze us all with her capacity for nonsense.
Andrew: I went with Madam Pince, because she wants to keep books in perfect condition, and I really respect that.
Eric: Aw.
Laura: [laughs] I went with Parvati for showing that she could actually think for herself. She was sort of in that mob mentality with making fun of Hermione when they were all in class together, but later on she showed that she was repenting for that, and she actually felt really bad about it, so she was trying to engage Hermione and sort of mend that bridge, and I appreciate that.
Eric: Aw.
Kristy: And I went with Hermione, because while I feel it’s super out of character for her, I like that she didn’t put up with Ron’s crap and kind of shoved things in his face.
[Andrew and Kristy laugh]
Andrew: Okay.
Eric: Somebody had to.
Kristy: Absolutely.
Rename the Chapter
Andrew: Micah, if you had the opportunity to rename this chapter, what would you have titled it?
Micah: Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince Chapter 15, “Horace’s Hogwarts Holiday Rager.”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Laura: Oh, yeah, they got lit.
Eric: [laughs] I went with Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince Chapter 15, “Cuckoos and Conspiracies.”
Andrew: I went with Half-Blood Prince Chapter 15, “The Horse.”
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: And by “went,” I mean I just came up with that, because I’ve really been struggling to come up with a title.
Eric: Oh, man.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: I love that “Dobbin” is a common mule or whatever. That’s fascinating.
Andrew: You learn something new every day.
Laura: I went with Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince Chapter 15, “He Said, She Said.”
Andrew: That’s a good one.
Kristy: And I went with Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince Chapter 15, “The One with Teenage Hormones.
Andrew: Ah, that’s a reference to The Big Bang Theory, isn’t it?
Laura: Or Friends.
Kristy: Friends, yeah. [laughs]
Andrew: Oh, Friends. One of those shows that I didn’t watch that aired. One of those network sitcoms that I never watched.
Kristy: Well, it’s on Netflix the rest of this year.
Andrew: Eh, no thanks. Still not interested.
[Eric and Kristy laugh]
Listener Feedback
Andrew: All right, so we have some voicemails now. Let’s listen to our first one. This concerns our discussion on last week’s episode.
[Voicemail plays]
“Hi, MuggleCast. This is Gabriella; I’m a huge fan of the show. I just finished listening to Episode 401, so I’m a little behind and I’m sorry if you talked about this in the new episode, but as I was listening, I was considering why Dumbledore went to go find Tom Riddle when he was in the orphanage, and why Grindelwald might have known his name. Do you think there’s any chance that they were, following the events of the Fantastic Beasts movies, weary of the chance of Tom becoming an Obscurus? Being in the orphanage, he wouldn’t know his magical upbringing, and he might have to hide it and stifle it growing up if he wasn’t welcome to Hogwarts, so maybe they foresaw a lot more loss and destruction if he were an Obscurus than if he weren’t. Yeah, so I hope that maybe you guys have something to say. Great job, love your show, thank you.”
[Voicemail ends]
Laura: Ooh, I love this.
Andrew: Yeah, right?
Kristy: I do too.
Andrew: It makes a lot of sense. It would be very cool to see this referenced in Fantastic Beasts in the future as well.
Kristy: It’s a nice tie-in between the two series.
Andrew: Totally. And I know somebody else had called in with that idea as well, so I think a few people had it on their minds based on last week’s discussion. Here’s our next voicemail.
[Voicemail plays]
“Hey, y’all. It’s long-time listener Katie from Virginia. I was just calling with a theory, or question more so than theory. I’m doing a reread of Harry Potter right now, and I’m in the first book where Hagrid comes and tries to take Harry away, and the Dursleys are saying no, and it got me wondering, what happens if parents refuse to let their kids go to Hogwarts? I don’t know if this question has been answered. I don’t know if magic is stripped away from the child, and then is that really fair? Because what if the kid wanted it but the parents didn’t, and then is it something where it could be reinstated at 18, and they could go through some sort of training at that point if they wanted to? It just seems dangerous to leave untrained kids with magic out on the streets without any type of regulation like a school would give. So I was just wondering if you guys had any thoughts or knew any more information about this. Thanks for the podcast.”
[Voicemail ends]
Laura: I mean, clearly what you have to do is get the parents drunk on gin, and then they’ll let you do anything.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Eric: You’ve got to socially engineer it.
Andrew: Good reference.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: So I’m just wondering why a parent wouldn’t want to send their kids to Hogwarts. If you find out that they have magical abilities, you can’t send them to any school that you know. You’ll want them to control it, to be with others who have these same abilities, so they don’t feel so alone. So I feel like this situation would very rarely come up. That said, I do think it is a good question. I mean, maybe these students could turn into an Obscurus if they weren’t allowed to go to a magical school, because then they wouldn’t know how to use their magic, and maybe if their parents didn’t want them to go to the magic school, then they would probably want them to suppress the magic.
Eric: Yeah, maybe.
Laura: I mean, I’m just trying to approach this from the perspective of a parent. So if somebody showed up at my place and was like, “Hey, your 11-year-old is a wizard, and we need to take them away to magic school,” I would be like, “Okay, let me call 911 quickly, because there’s a crazy person in my home.” So I don’t know if it would be totally out of the realm of possibility for a lot of Muggle parents to be like, “Pardon my French, but the [censored]? What are you talking about?”
Andrew: Maybe there’s a book out there for parents who run into this situation.
Laura: Right.
Andrew: And it’s called “So Your Kid’s a Wizard: What to Do in This Situation.”
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Eric: And it comes with tumbler glasses for gin.
[Andrew and Kristy laugh]
Micah: Right, because how would Hermione’s parents have been convinced to send her off? They’re both Muggles. We never really get that story, do we?
Eric and Kristy: No.
Andrew: They just wanted what was best for their child, and that’s really admirable.
Micah: But we do hear throughout the course of the series about parents not wanting their kids to return to Hogwarts for various reasons, so couldn’t it just be the same thing as not letting them go in the first place?
Eric: That there’s alternatives to the education?
Laura: Yeah, maybe they have wizard homeschooling or something.
Andrew: That would be probably really bad.
Laura: Yeah, well, a lot of times in the real world, homeschooling is not a good thing.
Andrew: You were homeschooled, right?
Laura: I was. I was one of the rare homeschoolers that used accredited programs, with science.
Andrew: And you turned out all right.
Laura: I did, but a lot of homeschooling programs teach kids that things like angels are real, so yeah, homeschooling can be a real issue if put in the wrong hands.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Whoa. I had no idea, Laura.
Laura: Oh, yeah.
Andrew: I feel like homeschooling a wizard could just go wrong in so many ways. Accidental spells burning the house down. And who teaches them? Their parent? And they’ve got to know all these…? I mean, I realize that this is the situation in the Muggle world as well, but the parent would have to know all these different magical departments, and that just seems impossible.
Laura: Yeah. I mean, it’s the exact same problem. [laughs]
Andrew: Yeah. All right, here’s a voicemail that is also a throwback.
[Voicemail plays]
“Hey guys, it’s Megan from Arizona. I just came across something that just made me laugh. So yesterday I listened to Episode 401, and you guys are talking about the illustrated editions in it, with the Goblet of Fire, all that kind of stuff, and talking about how great it’s going to be and everything. Well, I have been going back and listening to old episodes, and today I listened to Episode 250. Ben was on it, Laura was on it, and that was the episode where you guys talked about how the illustrated editions were just announced, that they were going to do it, and you guys were so in shock about it. Hated the idea. Andrew was like, ‘Oh my God, it’s going to be a children’s book,’ like a grumpy old man. Eric was like, ‘No way. No, no, not going to be good.’ And Laura was saying, ‘Oh my God, it’s going to be a graphic novel. How terrible.’ And it was so hilarious listening back to this old episode about when the illustrated editions were announced, and now, look, we all love them. We all – most of us, anyways – own them. So I just wanted to talk about that, how it’s pretty funny. Made me chuckle. Anyways, talk to you guys later.”
[Voicemail ends]
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: I went back and listened to this; I’m not going to play it because it’s kind of long. But we had thought it was going to be a graphic novel, [laughs] because Twilight had just released a graphic novel, and we were convinced – for no good reason – that it would be just like that.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Laura: See, this is the danger of podcasting, that people can go back to episodes where you said things a decade ago, and be like, “Do you remember the time you said that?”
[Kristy laughs]
Laura: Usually the answer is, “I have no recollection, to be honest. I don’t remember half the shit I said on last week’s episode.”
Andrew: Right.
Laura: But it’s funny. We were wrong.
Eric: So it’s official; we’re deleting every old episode of MuggleCast past three months, right?
[Andrew and Micah laugh]
Eric: Just no longer available.
Andrew: We can’t bear the embarrassment.
Laura: Yep.
Andrew: We actually have somebody going through every single episode of MuggleCast right now for us to find all the theories that we made, Kim. She’s going through these for us. We’ll have more to say about that in the months ahead, but she’s doing a really great job so far, and it’ll be really cool to revisit all the theories that we made over the years. But if you do want to hear that old discussion, like she said, it’s Episode 250, and it starts at the 26 minute 30 second mark. It is pretty funny. One more voicemail today. We had one of our patrons on the show a month or two ago – maybe further back than that – Jemima. She’s down in Australia; she got to see the Cursed Child in Australia because it recently opened there, and here’s her review.
[Voicemail plays]
“Hi, guys. This is Jemima from Australia, and I’m calling because last night I went to the first ever Australian performance of Cursed Child – I’m seeing part two tonight – and oh my God, it was amazing. I know that you guys have been talking for two years about how amazing the production is, but it was next level. I had high expectations, and they were exceeded. I just can’t get over how amazing it was. I mean, I haven’t seen the New York or London productions, but I mean, I think it’d be interesting to see how the two compare, like if the characters were played the same way, and if the same thing is played out on stage. But I can report that they did not play up the gay between Albus and Scorpius, unfortunately, but oh well. Yeah, it was amazing. And now I finally know what everyone was talking about with the staircase thing. Beautiful. Loved it. And the Dementors at the end, I nearly died. Oh, and that bit with… I don’t want to ruin it, but the bit with the dream and Hagrid and then the people in the bed? Oh, so good. Anyway, yeah, I did not love the screenplay when I read it two years ago, but now I am so sold on this. So I just want to say, for anyone out there who’s still doubting Cursed Child, please go see it, because it’s so good. Anyway, bye.”
[Voicemail ends]
Andrew: I love how much she loves it. Kristy, have you seen it yet?
Kristy: I have not, but I am seeing it at the end of March.
Andrew: Oh, awesome.
Laura: Oooh, you’ll have to give us your review.
Kristy: Absolutely. Yeah, I got tickets a year ago. They released a block and I bought them so far in advance. [laughs]
Andrew: That’s what you’ve got to do, though, right? I mean, it’s a hard ticket.
Kristy: It’s going to be a long day. I’m seeing both parts on Sunday, so it’s going to be very long. [laughs]
Laura: Oof.
Andrew: Yeah. Well, you’ll have time to run to dinner in between the two shows, but just enough time. So pick a place for dinner out in advance.
Kristy: Right. For sure.
Micah: Yeah, and make sure it’s walkable.
Eric: Yeah, we did Sardi’s; it was like a block up.
Kristy: Okay, yeah.
Andrew: So those are our voicemails for the week. If you would like to call in yourself, you can dial 1-920-3-MUGGLE; that’s 1-920-368-4453. Just try to keep your voicemail about a minute long, and make sure you’re in a quiet place, and ideally don’t call in using your car’s Bluetooth system, because those voicemails tend to not turn out good.
Quizzitch
Andrew: All right, it’s time now for Quizzitch.
Eric: Yes, last week’s question: What is the title of the book that Harry is assigned to read for Charms class? And we got actually a lot of winners this week who replied. The correct answer is Quintessence: A Quest, and the winners who participated over on Twitter were Lindsay, Fluffy McNutters, Jenniffler… like Jennifer, but Niffler. Jenniffler. I love that a lot.
Andrew: I love that.
Eric: The Ravenclaw Hobbit Guy, Jeff, Michelle, Charlie Father of Dragons, Sarah, Justin, Count Ravioli… Timder? I assume it’s like Tim as in Timothy, but Timder. That’s kind of cool. Clever. Supermandy… [laughs] Okay, people are really messing up their profile names now, which is cool, and participating in Quizzitch. Maju Woo, Retta, Erica, Marley, Alexandra, Jeremy, Danielle, William, Justin, and that’s it. But special shout-out to Danielle and That Ravenclaw Hobbit Guy at @Jabberwock815, because they told me that they did not need the book to answer this question, so they memorized Quintessence: A Quest.
Andrew: I like how some people admitted, “Yeah, I had to cheat.”
Laura: Dang.
[Eric and Kristy laugh]
Eric: And next week’s question for the next chapter of our read-through of Half-Blood Prince: What Christmas gift does Harry receive from Kreacher? And this game is played over on Twitter. Simply tweet at us, at @MuggleCast, and use hashtag #Quizzitch when replying to your answer, and that’s how we’ll find it.
Andrew: Is it the book “So Your Kid’s a Wizard”?
Eric: It is not. No, it’s not.
Andrew: Too bad. All right, MuggleCast.com is where you can find us. You can get our complete episode archive. No, we will not be deleting every episode in our history out of embarrassment.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: From there, you can also find a link to our Patreon. Patreon.com/MuggleCast is how you can support us; it is the reason we are doing the show weekly. It is the reason we get to have guests like Kristy on today. Thanks, Kristy, for joining us. You did a great job.
Kristy: Thanks for having me. Thank you.
Laura: Yeah, you’re awesome.
Andrew: Absolutely. Hope you enjoy Cursed Child in March.
Kristy: Absolutely. I hope so too. [laughs]
Andrew: There is a chance I might not be on next week because I’m going to be traveling, and since that episode is number 404, I humbly request that one of you three please use my 404 joke, okay?
Laura: All right, sure.
Micah: Okay.
Andrew: You promise?
Eric: Yeah. MuggleCast 404: Andrew not found?
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: All right, use that one instead. I like that. [laughs] All right, thanks, everybody, for listening. I’m Andrew.
Eric: I’m Eric.
Micah: I’m Micah.
Laura: I’m Laura.
Kristy: And I’m Kristy.
Andrew: Bye, everybody.
Eric, Kristy, Laura, and Micah: Bye.