Episode #414:
Transcript for MuggleCast Episode #414, Secrets Discovered (HBP 23, Horcruxes)
Show Intro
[Show music plays]
Andrew Sims: Welcome to MuggleCast Episode 414. I’m Andrew.
Eric Scull: I’m Eric.
Micah Tannenbaum: I’m Micah.
Laura Tee: And I’m Laura.
Andrew: On today’s episode, we’re discussing a big chapter in Half-Blood Prince, “Horcruxes.” Finally. We’re finally getting some answers.
Eric: Woot-woot!
[Laura laughs]
News
Andrew: But first, want to catch up everybody on a news item. So we’ve been talking about [takes a deep breath] Hagrid’s Magical Creatures Motorbike Adventure, and we now have a first look at five of the beasts that will be encountered.
Micah: Should I see if I can remember them off the top of my head?
Andrew: [laughs] The creatures? Well, they were… yeah, go ahead. Do you remember them? They announced one creature each day this week. What were they?
Micah: Fluffy… centaurs… I won’t go to the one that’s the big reveal, apparently.
Eric: Save the best for last.
Micah: Were unicorns in there? Or no, did I…?
[Andrew makes a buzzer sound]
Micah: No? All right. They used a plant, though, which I didn’t really consider to be a beast.
Eric: It’s not a creature, yeah.
Andrew: Devil’s Snare?
Micah: Devil’s Snare, yeah.
Andrew: Yeah, that was an interesting choice, wasn’t it? And they posted a picture of the Devil’s Snare, and it’s just roots. You’re like, “Wow, roots. Can’t wait to fly to Florida to see that.”
[Eric laughs]
Micah: Oh, it was the Cornish Pixies.
Andrew: Yes.
Eric: Fan favorite.
Andrew: And they are flying around the Ford Anglia, it looks like. And then the big beast reveal was the Blast-Ended Skrewt. And credit to the listeners who told us that they had heard that this would be the beast we hadn’t seen before appearing on this ride. So this is a creature we haven’t seen in the movies. It was a creature concocted by Hagrid, right? [laughs]
Eric: On Pottermore, it says it’s a dangerous and illegal cross between a Fire Crab and a Manticore.
Andrew: And the thing looks pretty horrific.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: The posters that Universal has been sharing all look like they are from the actual attraction, except for the Blast-Ended Skrewt, so maybe that one isn’t ready yet. Doesn’t it look like a mockup to you guys?
Laura: Oh, good God. That’s terrifying. [laughs]
Andrew: Yeah. So apparently it’s going to emit odors, and breathe… or not breathe fire. I guess fire might be coming out of its tail as well.
Eric: Yeah, I read that about the odor. It says the animal is eight feet long with a ten foot tail, creates fire, as well as a “very powerful and signature odor.” If that odor is not fresh cut grass, I don’t want to have it on the ride.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: I don’t want them to pump smells at me. Unless it smells like burnt toast, I don’t want it anywhere near me on that ride, giving me the…
Andrew: I’m going to go ahead and guess it’s a bad smell, so you might not be able to ride this thing, unfortunately.
Eric: What is the point? This is a roller coaster, not this stop and smell the roses…
Micah: No, Eric, it’s an immersive experience.
[Laura laughs]
Micah: You have to take in everything that comes with… if you’re out in the Forbidden Forest, you think it’s going to smell like roses?
Andrew: [laughs] Yeah, there’s big spiders in there.
Eric: Smell this burnt toast looking Manticore/Fire Crab thing… I don’t know.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: Now I’m hungry.
Micah: Where is its head, though?
Andrew: This looks like… huh?
Micah: Where is its head?
Andrew: Yeah, it doesn’t have a head, does it?
Laura: I feel like I kind of see a face, but I don’t know. I can’t tell if the face is on the side where the tail is coming out of or if it’s on the opposite side, because I feel like I see facial features on both sides.
Andrew: And I’m also wondering if this was based on concept art from the movies at one point? I wonder if this had ever been dreamed up by the Harry Potter film team. Or was this Universal working with Team J.K. Rowling in 2017 or whatever to dream this up?
Micah: Well, now they can just use this for the Fantastic Beasts series if they’ve already created it.
Eric: It’s true. It kind of does remind me… it bears a passing resemblance to the Crumple-Horned Snorkack when the Crumple-Horned Snorkack ignites its horn, except this whole thing’s body is like an ignited Snorkack horn. I don’t remember these things being eight feet wide in the books.
Andrew: I actually thought they were little baby things, so I was surprised.
Eric: Right?
Laura: Well, they started out that way, right? Because in Care of Magical Creatures, Hagrid had them raising them from being babies, right? I’m not making that up.
Eric: I think you’re right. I confuse these and those Bubotubers, or the… no. Yeah, wasn’t there these slimy, larval creatures that they’re taking care of at some point? Am I crazy?
Andrew: At some point, that sounds possible. I’m seeing that Pottermore has also had some concept artwork of a Blast-Ended Skrewt, and it doesn’t look like this, but it also looks a lot smaller, so I don’t know. Anyway. Oh, yeah, and then there’s another piece of art on Pottermore in which the students are with Hagrid, and they are all trying to take care of the Blast-Ended Skrewts, and again, they look like they’re a lot smaller. So yeah, I think that’s cool. It certainly makes the ride a little more interesting, since we haven’t seen this creature before, and it’s like we’re getting introduced to a new, official part of J.K. Rowling’s world, so I guess that’s cool.
Eric: It does kind of beg the question, though, again, about this whole immersive experience… something like Forbidden Journey, not being a roller coaster, you can take the time to hit every corner and see, “Now the dragon is coming; now there’s Dementors; now there’s a spider.” It seems like they’ve tried to do the same thing, or are trying to do the same thing, but with a roller coaster. So do you guys think there will actually be… go through a loop-de-loop, then stop at the stop and all of a sudden, Cornish Pixies, and then go down a hill, and then all of a sudden stop… do you think they’re actually going to interrupt the ride to show us this? Because roller coasters are supposed to go by in two minutes, and you barely see anything or have time to experience this the way that it seems like they want us to experience this.
Laura: I feel like this could end up being a lot like the Mummy ride. Have you guys ever ridden that at Universal? It’s the same kind of experience where it is a roller coaster, but it’s immersive in that there are a couple of stops throughout the ride, and it’s actually a really good ride.
Eric: Yeah, good point.
Laura: So yeah, I’m looking forward to this.
Andrew: Yeah, or I’m thinking the Cars or Fast Track ride at Disneyland and Disney World, where you start off going through a couple different show scenes sort of slowly, and then at the end is the big high speed part of the ride. But I don’t know. Yeah, Universal also said this week they’re building… they call it a real forest, but I don’t know if it’s a real forest if you’re building the forest.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: But they’re going to have 1,200 trees, and I’m sure there are going to be other beasts in there that they are going to keep a surprise. So yeah, there’s probably going to be a lot to look at, and you’re going to have to ride it multiple times to really see everything.
Micah: This also reminded me that Fluffy was released into the Forbidden Forest, but then we never saw him again.
Andrew: And now you get to. Fluffy looks really great.
Eric: Oh, yeah.
Andrew: Oh, and by the way, apparently that Blast-Ended Skrewt is an animatronic…
Eric: Huh.
Andrew: … and Universal says it’s the best one they’ve ever built. I think they said any theme park has ever built.
Eric: Wow.
Andrew: And Disney has built some cool ones lately for Avatar, and probably for Star Wars. So it’ll be… I’m actually wondering if Fluffy moves, because that would be terrifying.
Micah: Why wouldn’t he?
Andrew: Anyway, we also wanted to get to some voicemails today, but first, I just wanted to give a shout-out to some of our newest patrons. We’ve had a lot of people join us recently over at Patreon.com/MuggleCast: Ricky, Iqra, Alex, Caroline, Michelle, Tatum, George, Michelle, Kelly, Kristi, CarolAnne, Leah, Alexandra, Ashleigh, Erica, Rosa, Kathleen, Heather, Cza, Becky, Katy, Jane, Jonathan, Ayesha, Grant, Christine, Andre, Tara, Dana, Rachel, Madi, Taylor, Jessica, Jon, Jeanne, Manon, Marissa. Thank you. [laughs]
Eric: Thank you.
Andrew: Thanks to everybody who’s joined us recently over at Patreon.com/MuggleCast.
Laura: Andrew, you sounded like an elementary school teacher taking roll call on a field trip.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: I was just going to say, I’m like a parent yelling at them. I’m sorry that I sounded like I yelled at you.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: All right, and people who pledge over at Patreon.com/MuggleCast get access to tons of benefits, like bonus MuggleCast; our exclusive private Facebook group; the Lynx Line, in which we get your feedback about a topic in the wizarding world, and then potentially read your feedback on air; and then we do a physical gift every year. And this year we are also doing signed album art again. Laura, how’s that going? Are you still signing away?
Laura: I am getting very close to the end, mainly because I know I have to have them to you by May.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Laura: But yeah, last night I sat down and I was doing some more, my hands started cramping up, and I was like, “All right, maybe I’ll resume tomorrow.”
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Andrew: If only you had a Quick-Quotes Quill.
Laura: I was thinking that. [laughs]
Listener Feedback
Andrew: All right, we have some voicemails to listen to. Our first one responds to our recent Chapter by Chapter discussion.
[Voicemail plays]
“Hey, MuggleCast. This is Eva. I wanted to call in because I don’t appreciate you dissing on my boy Slughorn so bad for his role that he played in who Voldemort ended up becoming. I just wanted to do a real quick point of clarification that Voldemort has already created a Horcrux – or they think that he’s already created a Horcrux – by the time that he has that conversation with Slughorn; I think that is evident later in this book. But I think we need to give Slughorn some grace, just because he is a people pleaser. He likes to collect shiny, bright things, and Voldemort was a charmer, so he would have appealed to Slughorn very greatly. That’s all. Thanks for doing what you’re doing. Have a good day.”
[Voicemail ends]
Andrew: Were we a little rough on Slughorn last week?
Laura: I don’t know. I don’t disagree with any of what Eva just said; I think that’s all pretty accurate. But I also think that it’s Slughorn’s biggest weakness, and that’s exactly what made him susceptible. I mean, obviously it’s not reasonable to say this is all Slughorn’s fault, because probably Voldemort could have figured this out on his own if Slughorn hadn’t wanted to talk to him, but Slughorn certainly made the conversation a lot easier. And I also think that she’s right that Voldemort already had a Horcrux. I think the main point of this discussion – we’ll get into it in this chapter – was to find out how many times he could split his soul.
Eric: Right.
Micah: Exactly. I think we were giving Slughorn a bit more of a hard time because he’s using house-elves as poison taste-testers.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Laura: Yeah, that’s screwed up. [laughs]
Micah: But I agree with what Laura said about Slughorn. Later on, we’ll talk about exactly how measured Tom Riddle was in his approach to the professor, and how disturbing it really was. Harry almost admires the way, in some respect, that Tom was able to extract this information from Professor Slughorn. He’s very, very tactical in how he goes about it, and I think Slughorn was just ripe for the picking, right? He’s sitting there with his feet up on his ottoman, and he’s eating his candied pineapple, and Tom just set the poor man up, just like he did for plenty of other people.
Andrew: Yep. All right, here’s our next voicemail. This one’s close to two minutes, FYI, so settle in.
[Voicemail plays]
“Hey, MuggleCast. I just had a question relating to Draco, Voldemort, and the Room of Requirement. With how much use the Room of Requirement must have been getting after Voldemort placed the diadem in it – if I remember correctly from Book 7, the diadem was the only thing in that particular iteration of the Room of Requirement when Voldemort placed it in there as the shrine – but we go back there 40-50 years later, and it’s just cluttered with stuff, and Draco has been in there fixing his Vanishing Cabinet. And it really makes me wonder, too, whether Voldemort told somebody about the Room of Requirement while he was there, if Dumbledore figured out that that might be a hidden place for a Horcrux, because we remember Dumbledore did tell Harry about… reference the Room of Requirement in Book 1, at least. And it also makes me wonder what kind of hands-on/hands-off boss Voldemort might have been on the task that he set Draco to. If he had been asking the right questions, he could have easily figured out that Harry and Dumbledore’s Army had been using this room to train, the same room that he had, or a different iteration of the same room that he had used to hide one of his Horcruxes. And he could have figured out as well, through one of his own Death Eaters, that this room not only was being used again, but was common knowledge at Hogwarts. Just wondering what your thoughts on that might be. Thanks.”
[Voicemail ends]
Andrew: Yeah, I don’t think we ever heard if Tom Riddle shared what he knew about the Room of Requirement. And I also find it really interesting that Voldemort was so hands-off in the present day that he didn’t even know that Draco may have known… or that Draco didn’t clue him in on the fact that Harry was onto him.
Laura: I have a couple of thoughts here: So one, didn’t Voldemort give Draco this plan as more of a punishment to Lucius?
Andrew: Right.
Laura: So I guess I’m wondering… I’m not sure how successful he actually expected Draco to be, if it’s intended to be a punishment for his father. I mean, we see how scared Narcissa was in the beginning of the book, which is why she forced Snape to make the Unbreakable Vow, so that leads me to believe that Voldemort wasn’t necessarily expecting Draco to succeed. And then also, I think that we see Draco’s reticence to rat Harry out to Voldemort in Book 7, when the Snatchers catch them in the forest and Bellatrix is trying to get Draco to identify Harry, and he’s kind of waffling on it, even though we do suspect that he can tell. I don’t think that he necessarily wants Harry to die, and I think that’s the whole crux of Draco’s development in this book. I feel like we see him handed way more… he sort of bites off way more than he can chew, and he realizes it progressively over this book and becomes more and more emotionally unstable as a result of it. So I’d be curious to hear y’all’s thoughts at home about that.
Micah: I agree with what you’re saying. I think that Voldemort did task Draco with what we would all consider to be an impossible job, right? He’s supposed to kill Dumbledore. Nobody would be able to do that who is 16 years old. So I also don’t think, then, that Voldemort would take that much stock in checking in with Draco to see how things are going; at least, we don’t really get much of that during this book, so it’s almost like he gave him the task, “Here you go, I’m going to go off and worry about other things that I need to focus on.”
Andrew: The things that are actually going to happen?
Eric: [laughs] Well, and as it pertains to what Voldemort saw when he went to the Room of Requirement, I don’t think we actually have that from anyone or anywhere, the idea that the room was empty when Voldemort put the diadem in it. I always thought it was quite the opposite, that the room where you put things was mostly filled over the centuries that Hogwarts has been around. People, I assumed, had been using that room, so it’s not just like in the last 40 years, a bunch of people needed to store their stuff there; I would have assumed this was thousands of years of buildup. And for that reason, I’ve always felt that Voldemort was a little silly, thinking that he’s the only one who would find this room, or that the room was a safe place to put the diadem, because of how many other people were clearly, clearly in there before. So that was kind of my impression. And then the other thing is that Hogwarts… the Room of Requirement – could use a refresher on how specifically it works – but it pulls all these items from other places, or a lot of what it builds what you need exactly come from other places. So it’s not necessarily that all this stuff was individually put there by some person; Hogwarts is sort of pulling it from… based on the needs of the person conjuring the room.
Andrew: All right, next voicemail:
[Voicemail plays]
“Hi, MuggleCast. My name is Jordan, and I’m 17, so I thought that I would be qualified to give feedback about Harry’s dreams that y’all talked about last week. Some of you guys said that it was creepy that he was thinking about that, or unnerving, but I thought that it was just kind of the most teenage response to having a crush ever. I’m pretty sure that everybody at least once… Harry is 16 in this book. He’s younger than me now, which is weird…”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
“… but I will admit that I have thought, ‘Hmm, maybe if so-and-so would just break up with his girlfriend, then everything will fall in line, and then we’ll live happily ever after.’ So I don’t think it’s creepy, and I don’t think it’s rapey. I think it’s just him being a teenager with teenage hormones. Thanks for all that you do. I love listening every week. Bye.”
[Voicemail ends]
Andrew: Thank you for your honesty, Jordan. And I agree with you, but my fellow cohosts here, they don’t dream. They don’t dream like us, so they don’t understand what it feels like.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: I think we all agreed to dreaming once or… I was actually defending that point before. But I really love this voicemail. It’s a good kind of… I think this voicemail does what voicemails are supposed to do: gives us a fresh perspective, one that we ordinarily would not have. How long has it been since we’ve been 17? Let’s not answer that.
[Andrew and Micah laugh]
Eric: But it’s a nice reminder, honestly, that dreams do exist.
Andrew: [laughs] That there are high school crushes still going on.
Eric: Yeah, still going on in these days. It’s actually honestly nice that Jordan connects to the book in this way and is like, “Oh, that’s incredibly realistic,” because it’s been so long, I forget thinking whether or not it was incredibly realistic.
Andrew: All right, we have another pretty entertaining voicemail.
[Voicemail plays]
“Hi, MuggleCast. This is Jacob from Virginia, calling in response to the conversation about StarKid’s tenth anniversary and Hufflepuffs being particularly good at finding, and I loved the conversation about it. It’s hard to believe it’s been ten years since that idea first entered our brains. And you mentioned that J.K. Rowling addressed it at one point, and I couldn’t remember that, and as I was trying to think, ‘Has she ever acknowledged that?’ I just immediately thought, ‘Oh my gosh. Well, she’s released this… or she started this new series called Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them…'”
[Eric and Laura laugh]
“… and she’s made our protagonist a Hufflepuff!’ So I’m a teacher; I know that correlation is not causation, but it just seems like a great coincidence to me that our hero, Newt Scamander, has written a book on finding magical creatures, and he’s a Hufflepuff. So I thought that was a fun note. I laughed a lot. Thanks for the great work; I love the conversations that you all are having. I also love hearing Laura’s perspective on things; I think it was a great idea to bring her back to the show, so thank you very much.”
[Voicemail ends]
Andrew: All right, enough of this voicemail.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Laura: Wait, wait, wait, I need my ego stoked a little bit.
Andrew: [laughs] No, I thought that was genius, the point that Jacob brought up. I doubt that’s what J.K. Rowling was thinking, but it’s a perfect connection.
Laura: I also just love that Hufflepuff is finally getting some love, in that they have a protagonist and that character is not a joke. I feel like for the longest time, the perception of Hufflepuffs was that, “Oh, it’s kind of the joke House. It’s the lame House.”
Andrew: I say this seriously: It still is. It still does have that perception. I don’t think it, but it always gets a bad rap.
Eric: And Newt is kind of a joke.
Andrew: [laughs] Ouch.
Eric: I mean, he’s incredibly accomplished. No, he’s incredibly accomplished as a wizard – anytime somebody fires a spell, and he can fire it back – but he’s a big goofball, little bit odd, little bit off. Middle head. He’s middle head.
Andrew: I remember how exciting it was in that very first – or maybe second – Fantastic Beasts trailer when Newt opens up his suitcase at customs in New York and you see his Hufflepuff scarf. That was a big moment for Hufflepuffs everywhere. [laughs]
Eric: Huge. Huge.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: Because as you say, Laura, they’re finally getting some representation. One more voicemail today, and this is a Chicken Soup.
[Voicemail plays]
“Hey, MuggleCasters. This is Katie from Kansas City, and I have a Chicken Soup for the MuggleCast Soul for you. I’ve been listening to your podcast for over ten years, and in those years, this podcast has meant something different to me at various stages of my life. Back in February, I had my first baby, and having a newborn is challenging enough, but the biggest thing I struggled with was the feeling of isolation that comes with breastfeeding. You can educate yourself on what goes into it, but there’s nothing that you can do to mentally prepare for the exhaustion, frustration, and mental strain that can come along with it. I ended up finding solace in your podcast. I never stopped listening to it, but something changed in what it meant to me. I listen to it while I’m nursing, and it makes me feel like I’m still part of this community, that I’m talking to old friends. So thank you for doing what you’re doing; I look forward to many more episodes. I’m so glad Laura is back. Keep up the great work. You don’t know what you mean to so many of your listeners. Thanks, bye.”
[Voicemail ends]
Andrew: Well, thank you, Katie. That’s very sweet.
Laura: Oh, this is beautiful.
Micah: Laura, two voicemails in a row for you.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Laura: I know.
Andrew: Did you pick these?
Eric: You’re on cloud nine.
Laura: [laughs] I know; I’m just waiting to get my title of voice of reason back. I know I have to work a little bit more to get that.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: What do you mean, your title? Who would award you that?
Micah: No, you’re there, Laura.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: You can give it to yourself.
Micah: Yeah, you… why was it even taken away in the first place?
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: I assumed that it rotated amongst the panel during my long absence.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: Okay. Yeah, definitely.
Micah: Definitely not.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Micah: Though I’m very happy now I can check listening to our podcast while breastfeeding off of the list.
Andrew: [laughs] Of ways people listen to the podcast?
Micah: Of ways people listen to the show.
Andrew: It is always actually really great to hear how people are listening to the podcast, because there’s so many different scenarios you can be in while listening. That’s what’s so great about podcasts; you can listen to them anywhere, while doing most things.
Eric: I loved what Katie said, too, about not feeling the isolation as much while listening to us. That sort of thing is exactly what we like to hear, and it just brings warmth to our cold, dead hearts.
Andrew: Yeah, absolutely. [laughs] All right, couple more pieces of feedback here. This piece of feedback is regarding our discussion on Chapter 21, “The Unknowable Room.” Francis writes,
“I agree with what you were saying – maybe some storylines were left out in the final cut as this does not seem to be the strong Tonks we met in Book 5. BUT, when listening to your discussion, it got me thinking – even though we do not know this at this point in the book, we later find out that Tonks is in love with Lupin, but that this is unrequited. Could this therefore be evidence that love is the most powerful magic? All-consuming and can sap your powers? That a character that was so magically powerful, a protégée of Mad-Eye Moody, could be affected so much by the effects of unrequited love, is clear evidence for Dumbledore’s theory? And going further, is it interesting that this is going on at the same time that we as readers (and Harry) are learning about how Voldemort tried to make himself invincible and all-powerful? A deliberate contrast? Anyway, would love to hear your thoughts. I love the show. I use it as my weekend treat after a stressful week at work (teacher here!)”
Andrew: Another teacher. I like this idea. It’s a very subtle way of J.K. Rowling telling us that love is all-consuming. But yeah, maybe that is the point J.K. Rowling was making.
Laura: Yeah, I think so too. And I think that’s also reflected in the fact that her Patronus changed, right?
Andrew: Right.
Laura: So sort of feeling like the burn of not having her feelings reciprocated changed a really powerful form of magic for her. So I think the rest of this, it adds up. It’s a good thought.
Andrew and Eric: Yeah.
Andrew: I mean, and speaking personally, being hung up on somebody can absolutely be all-consuming. Thank God I don’t have to deal with that anymore. [laughs]
Laura: Oh, yeah.
Eric: 100%.
Andrew: That’s the one reason I’m never finding anyone again. I don’t want to deal with that crap.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Laura: It’s exhausting. I think that’s the thing that we can take away from this, is that being that hung up on somebody and then having it be unrequited love, it saps all of your energy out of you. You’re not as good at your job as you typically would be. I feel like I usually would tend to sleep more and just generally be kind of in a cloud. So this makes sense.
Andrew: Yeah. I went through one long bout of unrequited love, and you might even be able to hear it my voice in MuggleCast. [laughs]
Eric: Because MuggleCast is the one constant.
Andrew: Exactly.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: Through thick and thin, it’s still there.
Micah: Sorry, Andrew.
Andrew: Still not over you, Micah. [laughs] One more email today. Micah, how about you read this one while I go cry about the love that we never had?
Micah: All right, comes from Courtney in San Jose, California.
“After listening to your new episode, I was thinking about the idea that the other listener had that Bunty is more than meets the eye. I think they’re on to something. I remember J.K. Rowling insisted Dobby be included in Chamber of Secrets movie when producers wanted to cut him, because he played a larger role in story to come (I think that was in a bonus featurette or something). We’ve all been wondering why they would include such a meaningless character with only minutes of screentime with really nothing to add to plot or character development. Knowing that J.K. Rowling has made sure to include characters to be presented to audience for long-run plot involvement, I think it is spot on that she would play a larger role, possibly being a spy or guardian of some type for Newt.”
Andrew: So we like this email, but we think it was Kreacher who J.K. Rowling insisted be included, not in Chamber of Secrets, but in another movie, because he would have a critical role in Deathly Hallows.
Eric: Right, right.
Andrew: So that would be Order of the Phoenix that he was almost cut from. And yeah, that’s a great point. So maybe the filmmakers were like, “Jo, so can we talk with you for a minute about Bunty? She seems pretty useless.” And then she was probably like, “Hey, you remember how I told you to keep Kreacher in because he seemed pretty useless? Yeah, keep in Bunty, because she’ll have a big role later on, when she’s revealed to be a spy.”
Eric: Probably costs less to put on screen, too. But I will say, too, playing the role of devil’s advocate – the rotating role of devil’s advocate that we all have here on the show amongst our panels – it’s possible that Bunty is in the movie just to fill the void so that audiences won’t question who’s watching his beasts while Newt is gallivanting in Paris. Maybe she just needed to tie that up a little bit, because his entire study, once we’re introduced to the whole basement – all those beasts could technically live on their own, but they’re in captivity – and I think it would behoove J.K. Rowling to show that there is one other person who can look after them while he’s gone. So unlike the first film where he carried them all in his suitcase, and was presumably taking care of them during that time, this time he’s physically away from the majority of his beasts, so J.K. Rowling needs a character like Bunty to say, “It’s okay, Newt’s got an assistant. She can handle this.”
Andrew: Is that that important to answer, though?
Eric: Well, it would be asked if she didn’t answer it. You know what I’m saying? If Bunty weren’t in the film, our number one thing to harp on would probably be, “Man, Newt totally abandoned 50 of his best animals to go…”
Andrew: Would that be the number one thing we harp on? [laughs]
Eric: I think so, just to chase Tina to Paris. It would be crazy.
Andrew: Yeah, yeah. Okay.
Laura: I think that we can’t ignore the importance of the fact that Bunty was in the background of the magazine picture of Newt, Leta, and… I’m blanking on…
Andrew: Theseus.
Laura: Yeah, there we go. Theseus, thank you. Have not had my coffee yet, y’all.
Micah: Oh no.
Laura: I think that including her in that probably sets us up for something a little bigger down the road. There would be no reason to put her in that if she was just a throwaway character; at least that’s my hope.
Andrew: Yeah, Eric, why is she at Newt’s book release party if she has to watch the beasts? Hmm?
Eric: This was answered. This was answered in the documentation leading up to the film; it’s in one of those companion books. That’s where they met, apparently, that the success of Newt’s book bred widespread appeal, and that Bunty, who probably has a soft spot for animals, or was interested in getting into that line of work, met Newt there in person and volunteered – or sort of a volun-told situation – that he needed an assistant, and Newt, completely oblivious to her obvious interest in him, brought her on as his assistant because it is a good idea to have somebody else at that moment. Now, what she’s doing specifically in the photo with his brother’s fiancée… it’s a little ridiculous that she’s that prominent, but I blame movie summarization for the fact that she’s that prominent in that photo. But they met at that book release party, according to official sources.
Andrew: You got me.
Micah: That’s really weird, then, that she would be in the photo if they had just met.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Micah: But I’ll believe you, Eric. I just think it makes her more susceptible in the future, because there’s an actual image of her somewhere for somebody to come across, whether that be Grindelwald or one of his followers. And Bunty already seems to know that Newt is dealing with some serious stuff; she even talks about reaching out to the Ministry when they hear the crash arrival of Jacob and Queenie. So I think she’s going to be somebody who is going to be potentially used against Newt somewhere down the line.
Eric: Yeah, it’s possible.
Andrew: Okay. Thanks, everybody, for the feedback.
Chapter by Chapter: Seven-Word Summary
Andrew: And now it’s time for our Chapter by Chapter discussion on Chapter 23, “Horcruxes,” and we’ll start, as always, with our Seven-Word Summary. And Eric, you can start this week. I hope none of you take issue with the order that I always write in; I’m just kind of making it up in my head. I hope I’m not being unfair to any of us.
Eric: No, I like the randomness, and yeah, I’ve never had a problem.
Andrew: Okay, just checking. I don’t want anybody to be mad at me.
Eric: Well, nobody be mad at me for going first and using a word like… Secrets…
Andrew: … are…
Laura: … discovered…
Micah: … inside…
Eric: … the…
Andrew: … Slughorn…
[prolonged silence]
Andrew: [laughs] This is an easy one.
Micah: Well, I’m trying to think of what the word is. It’s not his classroom.
Laura: It’s his office, I think.
Micah: Office, there you go.
Andrew: Is that your answer? Office?
Micah: Yeah.
Andrew: Okay. I thought “memory” was the obvious one, but…
Eric: “Inside the Slughorn memory,” yeah.
Andrew: Wow. That was the easiest one we’ve ever done, until Micah got stuck.
Micah: [laughs] Well, why’d you put me last, Andrew?
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: No, I thought we were just going to say “Horcruxes” seven times.
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: That would be… oh, or list off the seven Horcruxes. That’d be fun.
Chapter by Chapter: Main Discussion
Andrew: All right, well, Micah, I guess do you want to lead this discussion? I think you put together the bones of it.
Micah: Yeah. So this is one of the most important chapters, I think, in the entire series. Is it fair to say that?
Andrew: Yeah, how to bring down Voldemort?
Laura: Yeah, definitely.
Micah: Just because we go from the memory, to learning about Horcruxes, to breaking down what all those Horcruxes could potentially be… we’re talking about love; we’re talking about the prophecy… Dumbledore finally opens up in this chapter, way more so than I think he ever has. But it does start with a bit of compromised security, because Harry is on his way back from Hagrid’s hut. The front door of the school, it’s open; he can just walk right in. So clearly, Felix is still doing his job, until he gets up to Gryffindor tower and then apparently Felix has worn off, because he goes up to the Fat Lady, and because it’s such a late hour, she denies him entry. But not only does she deny him entry, she lies to him that the password that Harry gave was wrong.
[Eric laughs]
Micah: And I’m thinking Harry, given who he is and the constant danger that he’s always presented with, shouldn’t she be fired from her job? I mean, this is negligence right here.
Andrew: By the way, y’all, Micah’s notes are very sassy this episode, so just get ready for sassy Micah.
[Laura and Micah laugh]
Andrew: Well, in this era of Polyjuice…
Micah: They should burn her painting.
Eric: Oh my God.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: You literally say “torched” in the doc. I’m like, “That’s an overreaction.”
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: Well, no, I feel like it was justified, because we see Polyjuice Potion being used left and right, and presumably people like the Fat Lady are aware that this type of magic exists. It would be very easy to pretend to be Harry, so this little layer of security where you’ve just got to know the password isn’t that hard of an ask.
Eric: Well, it’s not just that the password has changed; it’s the idea that that’s not true at all, that she just was cranky with him, so she told him the password had changed. That doesn’t protect anybody. That’s actually just real problematic. I’m blown away, because ultimately, he’s left to go off in another direction, and that means he’s out of bed past hours, which he shouldn’t be. So the Fat Lady is actually enabling more bad behavior rather than just being… I mean, the Gryffindor common room is supposed to be a refuge to Gryffindor students everywhere, and if she’s getting sassy because she doesn’t like being woken up? That’s her job. She’s turning him away. Where’s he going to go? She tells him originally he’s going to have to wait in the corridor all night. Really?
Andrew: Go get another job if you don’t like being woken up in the middle of the night.
Eric: I mean, I’m with Micah that this is definitely a mark against her otherwise pristine record.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Laura: I mean, it does make me wonder, does she get to choose this job? It sort of seems like it’s a role that she just happens to have, and that there’s not much choice involved in it, and maybe sometimes she just has her fill. Does she even get paid?
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Laura: What’s the compensation for this? Do they offer…?
Eric: In wine. In painted wine, yeah.
Laura: Does she have a 401k?
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Laura: But also, I think it’s worth noting that she goes on and on about “This is for security measures,” but then as Harry starts walking away, she yells out to the whole corridor, “No, no, I was just mad that you woke me up! The password is still…” whatever it was, and she just shouts that for the whole corridor to hear. Talk about security.
Andrew: Do you guys also think the front door being unlocked was a result of Felix?
Micah: I think so.
Andrew: That seems really lucky. I mean, that’s a physical thing. The door is unlocked.
Eric: It was Tonks, you guys. It was Tonks. She was supposed to guard that door, make sure that it’s locked, but she’s off sulking somewhere. It all ties in.
Andrew: And is that lock one big deadbolt? Are there multiple locks?
Eric: Yeah, I don’t know.
Andrew: Because I think it needs a lot more protection than a single lock, personally.
Micah: Maybe it was Dumbledore. Upon his return, he just left it open.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Andrew: Forgot to close.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: “Oops.”
Andrew: It’s another problem with this guy and how he handles security at Hogwarts.
Micah: Yeah, because you would think Filch or somebody would be aware of the fact that the front door is open. I mean, I know it’s not like today’s modern day security, where an alarm would be going off somewhere because the front door is open, but it is a bit odd. I would chalk it up to Felix Felicis, though. But like I said, it wears off very quickly after that, because Harry can’t even get into Gryffindor tower. But is that also Felix potentially still working? Does his luck kind of pivot in that sense, where it’s a good thing that he doesn’t get in there, because he hears that Dumbledore is back and he goes off to Dumbledore’s office?
Laura: Oooh, that’s a good theory. I like that.
Andrew: I guess the question… it is good, but did he need to present that memory that night? Not necessarily. I guess his plan was to do it first thing in the morning, right?
Micah: Yeah, but let’s keep with that. So as luck should have it, Nearly Headless Nick comes along and lets Harry know that Dumbledore has returned – he heard from the Bloody Baron – and Harry sets off for Dumbledore’s office. And Dumbledore definitely looks a little bit worn, little bit tired, and he does come across as a bit shocked that Harry was able to acquire this memory. I don’t know if his mind is just somewhere else at the time, but it’s a bit unlike Dumbledore. I don’t think he would have tasked Harry with something that he didn’t fully believe deep down that Harry was able to do.
Eric: Yeah, and yet, there’s this writing in the chapter that “For a moment or two, the headmaster looked stunned. Then his face split into a wide smile,” and then he’s like, “This is really great stuff, Harry! I knew you could do it.” And it just sounds a little disingenuine. I just got the impression that this was the last thing Dumbledore was expecting Harry to have. But I don’t know; it’s weird, because he specifically impressed upon him at the time of their last visit how important it was that Harry gets this memory, so why is he dumbstruck by this?
Andrew: I think an important thing to remember here is that he did just get back from a trip, and it is the middle of the night, so maybe it’s not the first thing on his mind right now. He was not expecting Harry to show up past midnight with the news he had been waiting for. So I think Dumbledore just had his mind elsewhere that evening, and for Harry to come in and present this was just shocking.
Eric and Micah: Yeah.
Micah: Definitely. And we then quickly jump inside of Slughorn’s memory, and I think, Eric, was this you asking what class are they attending?
Eric: Yeah, and you asked this, too, during the Seven-Word Summary; what room are they in? But it’s interesting that we get into this memory, Slughorn says, “Ope, it’s 11 o’clock. You guys better get going; don’t want to be caught out of bed.” What class is at 10 o’clock at night? What is going on here? Tom Riddle stays after class, and it seems to be a small kind of study group? But I’m wondering… it’s not overtly stated. So what are our thoughts on what exactly this is? Is this a progenitor to the Slug Club? Is this Head of House just hanging with his Slytherin pupils? What exactly is going on there?
Laura: I definitely interpreted this to be the Slug Club of the day.
Andrew: I did too.
Laura: Because we hear all these prominent names; we hear Lestrange and Avery, and of course, Tom Riddle is there, and Slughorn makes reference to the fact that he’s the Heir to Slytherin, right? So he’s very clearly collecting all of these big names to have this meeting with, and they’re all sort of sitting around him and giving him all this flattery so that they can participate in school gossip.
Andrew: Yeah, exactly.
Laura: So I think that’s what this is.
Andrew: Because you are stunned, Eric, by what class it could be this late at night. And as far as we know, I think there just aren’t any classes this late at night, unless it’s a stargazing class for Astronomy.
Eric: Right, exactly.
Micah: And I think that it would be interesting if the Slug Club had developed from being just Slytherins into being more inclusive of other Houses after Tom Riddle leaves the school.
Eric: [laughs] I love the idea that Slughorn is like, “Too many of these students are turning into bad people. I’ve got to pull from other Houses. This is making me look bad.”
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: Well, it kind of ties into the next point here, and Slughorn and Tom are having a conversation, and Slughorn talks about how Tom would be fit for politics and would do well at the Ministry, and Tom disagrees, but Slughorn uses the argument that it “couldn’t be plainer you come from decent wizarding stock, abilities like yours.” And I thought this was a… and I don’t mean to go back at our voicemail from earlier in defense of Slughorn, but this is a little bit of ignorance on Slughorn’s part. I still don’t think that he’s fully come to realize that there could be very good wizards or witches that don’t come from wizarding stock. And maybe this doesn’t happen till a little bit later on in his tenure, and obviously Lily has not come through the school yet, but I just thought it was a bit surprising of his character, given his fondness for Lily and probably others that don’t have this sort of background.
Laura: Yeah. Well, I mean, this took place long before he would have met Lily…
Micah: Right.
Laura: … so I think there’s definitely room for him to have broadened his mind a bit and become more accepting of the fact that talented and powerful people come from all different backgrounds. That said, I think that we still see vestiges of this sort of old world mentality from Slughorn, even as you pointed out, Micah, just a few minutes ago, having house-elves taste test wine to make sure it’s not poisoned.
[Eric laughs]
Laura: I think that he is a really good example of something that we all see and reference in our own day-to-day, which is this acceptance that when you’re conversing with an elderly person, they may sometimes use language that makes you cringe because you’re like, “Ooh, that’s not okay anymore.”
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Andrew: Yeah, yeah.
Eric: It’s also a bit of reverse flattery, in a way. I think there possibly is this enigma that surrounds Tom Riddle in his day about his parentage, and because he’s an orphan, it’s slightly mysterious. And I’m sure Slughorn knows that Riddle is an orphan, but I think in him saying this, “It’s clear, due to your abilities, that you come from good stock,” it’s a compliment. It’s a teacher/student kind of compliment, and it shows how much Tom is ingratiated into Slughorn’s confidences, which we know he utilizes in a hot minute. So I think that it just shows that Slughorn has really bought into the Tom Riddle cake here, and is really just in his fan club, and it’s not the other way around.
Micah: Yeah, those are all good points, I think. But Tom ends up using the word “Horcruxes,” as we’ve heard in the previous memory, and I’m interested to know where Tom really learned about Horcruxes in the first place, because the way that he presents it to Slughorn is that he just came across the term.
Andrew: So I was doing some reading into this, and it looks like he got it from – and we find this out in Deathly Hallows, I think – Secrets of the Darkest Art. That was a book available in the Hogwarts library, and then Dumbledore pulled it at some point, but not before Tom had actually gotten his hands on it. That’s my impression. Because according to what I’ve been reading, that book actually goes into details about creating Horcruxes.
Micah: And as was mentioned earlier by one of the listeners, it’s likely that he had already created a Horcrux by this time anyway, so he’s just looking to… is it validate what he’s doing? Understand how far he could potentially go down the road of ripping his soul?
Andrew: Isn’t it said by maybe Dumbledore that a book would not explain how to break your soul into seven pieces?
Eric: Right.
Andrew: So he wanted to get additional information. And I hate to compare this to everyday situations, because it’s a lot different, [laughs] but sometimes it is helpful to actually talk to somebody, as opposed to relying on only a book. You want to get some information from somebody who is potentially an expert in a topic, so going to Slughorn or anybody who might know something is a good idea.
Eric: Yeah, and it is specifically to get the opinion on whether having seven of something would give you extra magical protection. But Slughorn, bless him, is squiggled out by the idea of murdering so many people that it would cause. So Riddle doesn’t really succeed in his goal, although he, I think, obviously gets enough validation to keep going and end up doing what he does. But he does show his hand, and after all of this practice… I do love what you were saying, Andrew, about Harry admiring Tom for his measuredness, and we have Harry’s insight that Voldemort was probably building up to this moment for weeks to really work this out, and we see its successes. It’s true, he shows his hand a little bit for all time, but that works for the plot. But I think Voldemort gets what he wanted out of this conversation.
Andrew: And I love this scene in the movie because Slughorn’s face when Tom suggests seven is just so pained. [laughs] “Seven Horcruxes?! Tom, what is wrong with you?!”
Laura: [laughs] I also love the scene in the movie because they stick with a lot of the same dialogue from the book, and it’s really good dialogue.
Andrew: Oh, yeah.
[Eric laughs]
Laura: I also love this moment because it feels like such a great parallel to the last few weeks of Harry’s life. Harry is sitting here thinking about, “Oh yeah, Tom probably worked his way up to this moment for weeks and weeks and weeks,” which is exactly what Harry just got done doing, so it’s just another, I think, really beautiful parallel between Harry’s and Tom stories.
Micah: Yeah, I really like that parallel. Andrew, you think there were numerous times in Tom’s line of questioning that Slughorn should have told him to [censored] off.
Andrew: It’s true, Micah. I did. Yeah, I mean, reading this again for the first time in a while, knowing everything that happens, knowing Slughorn’s hesitancy to hand over this memory… he has reason to be embarrassed, because Tom Riddle is really pushing for answers in this scene. I think he’s a little… he’s angsty. He’s anxious to get some information; he is speaking out of turn to a teacher who you’re supposed to have more respect for. There’s just numerous clues here that he wants to actually create these Horcruxes, and Slughorn really should have caught on to that. So it’s disappointing, I guess, that Slughorn didn’t stop himself. He just kept handing over this information because, “Oh, it’s just a student who wants to learn some more information, just for academic purposes.” No!
Eric: The smallest consolation for me – and something I picked up just while reading this the most recent time – is that I think it’s stated very, very small-ly – it’s a little nuance of this – that Slughorn finally sees Tom Riddle for who he is after this moment. So I think that because of the greedy look on Tom’s face or something, by the very, very end of it, Slughorn comes away with a slightly different understanding of who Tom Riddle is as a person, and he feels a little icky about this situation having occurred, and that plants the seed for Slughorn eventually covering up this memory, that he kind of sees Tom Riddle… there’s no going back after you have this conversation with somebody, and I think this is, really, a real turning point for Slughorn.
Micah: Right, but I think Tom does a lot to move the conversation along in the direction that he wants it to. And I don’t necessarily think that that’s the fault of Slughorn, outside of him… just to Andrew’s point, there should be bells and whistles going off in his head, and he just stops the conversation. But anyway, there’s something else that he says that struck me, and I’m not sure this was in the films, but it’s a very interesting line, given what we know now about the Deathly Hallows and about other characters in this series. He says, “Wizards of a certain caliber have always been drawn to that aspect of magic,” referring to Horcruxes or just Dark Arts, really, really Dark Arts in general. And I wondered, “Like who?”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: Yeah, it’s a good question.
Laura: I mean, I was thinking Grindelwald, right? This is the right time period for that. And I mean, I don’t know how much Dumbledore would have clued Slughorn in on this, but Dumbledore is another representation of this kind of wizard, right? He has actively turned down positions at the Ministry because he recognizes that he is not the kind of person who should have that much power, and obviously he was drawn to the Deathly Hallows.
Eric: Do you think Grindelwald had a Horcrux?
Laura: I feel like this is part of the discussion we’re about to have. I don’t know. I mean, if I’m thinking about Grindelwald’s portrayal in the movies, he certainly seems kind of torn, right?
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: Dumbledore talks in this chapter about how the more that you rip your soul apart, the less human you become.
Andrew: Yes. Yeah, when you do create Horcruxes, you are known to start looking like Johnny Depp, with that face just falling apart.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Andrew: No amount of makeup is going to save that.
Eric: But my biggest question, too, is now that we’ve seen Crimes of Grindelwald, and now that we know there’s this blood pact thingy which operates kind of like a Horcrux, and Dumbledore had an active role in it, is there really a need for Grindelwald to also have a Horcrux? Would it seem as repetitive as every time somebody uses Polyjuice Potion to sneak into the Ministry of Magic?
Micah: Here’s the thing, though: We need to remember, when we’re framing it that way, is that Grindelwald would have done it first. It’s only because we’ve read Potter that we would look at it from the lens of, “Oh, well, we’ve already seen this before.” Well, technically, this is really the second time that we’ve seen it, if Grindelwald did, in fact, create one, because he would have created one before Voldemort maybe ever even existed.
Eric: The reason I asked whether or not you guys thought he made one now is because in the text, Slughorn says that Dumbledore is “particularly fierce” about the subject of Horcruxes, that you wouldn’t have found a book that had them in it, and Dumbledore has refused to talk about it. Dumbledore, in the ’40s, has said that Horcruxes are an off-limit topic at Hogwarts. Dumbledore is not even the headmaster, and he’s banning this topic from schoolbooks. Why? What’s the connection here that even in the ’40s, when Voldemort was a student, Horcruxes had to be banned from Hogwarts? Who had done it? Who precipitated Dumbledore’s stark reaction to forbidding this magic from being available?
Andrew: I like that point, but I would also just add it could potentially have just simply been a matter of somebody looking into Horcruxes. Grindelwald maybe just could have considered them, or Tom could have just considered them once. I don’t know. Somebody… because Dumbledore would realize that even just thinking about Horcruxes is probably very dangerous because of the lore of, “Oh my gosh, I could protect myself from death.”
Laura: Well, and also he’s seen the effects the Deathly Hallows have had, and the Deathly Hallows are kind of like the other side of the same coin, right? Pursuing Horcruxes or Hallows is really about mastering death, and since he’s already seen that issue with the Deathly Hallows, I could very much see him doing his research to find out if there is any other form of magic that could achieve a similar effect, and just flat-out banning it because he doesn’t want to see that come to fruition again. But I also think it’s a good theory that Grindelwald, at the very least, may have considered having one. Maybe Credence is a Horcrux.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Eric: No, he’s a homunculus.
Andrew: It would explain that bad haircut.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: Oh my God.
Micah: Right. But there’s clearly knowledge on the part of Dumbledore, because he does say that he doesn’t know any wizard to have created more than one, but he does know of somebody – or multiple people – who have done it.
Eric: Very weird.
Andrew: Maybe that’s what the spinoff books will be about one day, the search for all these people with Horcruxes. Just destroy them now so you don’t have to worry about them later. Would you all create one Horcrux? Just one.
Laura and Micah: No.
Laura: Because I’m not a murderer.
Andrew: Just one, though? I mean, just as a backup plan? Let’s say you get hit by a car, then you can still live. No? Just me? Okay.
Laura: Um, all right, I’m just noting to myself not to stay with Andrew next time I go to Chicago.
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: Our 17-year-old listener Jordan is going to call in again and agree with me. “Yeah, I’ve thought about killing somebody to live an extra time.”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Micah: Could you imagine how many Horcruxes could be created by some of the characters in Game of Thrones?
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Andrew: Maybe that’s why they’re motivated.
Micah: Exactly. So we do learn that Tom is after seven Horcruxes, and we come back to the present day, and of course, this is beyond Dumbledore’s wildest dreams. He clearly knew something was up, and I think we finally get him to come clean a little bit with Harry. There’s a lot of open conversation here, I think, and – I mentioned this at the top of the discussion – more so than we’ve ever seen, maybe, between Harry and Dumbledore, just in terms of the info dump that we get. There’s a little bit of time spent talking about the diary Horcrux, and that was really when Dumbledore got the sense that Voldemort had created Horcruxes to keep himself immortal. And he did talk about how Voldemort regarded this Horcrux in a careless way, but I thought – and maybe it was just the way that I read it – I thought it was more that Lucius Malfoy handled it in a careless way than Voldemort just giving his diary off to the Malfoy family.
Andrew and Laura: Yeah.
Andrew: That’s right. Because I mean, in Mr. Malfoy’s defense, he did not know that this was a Horcrux.
Eric: Right.
Andrew: So for him to handle it carelessly… I guess he would maybe argue it wasn’t so careless, thinking it was just some old diary.
Laura: Yeah, well, Dumbledore makes the point that Lucius didn’t know that it contained part of his master’s soul, and that he did it to sort of achieve a dual purpose: One was to do away with a magical artifact that could have gotten him in a lot of trouble for having, and two, to implicate Arthur Weasley, and either have him demoted or fired at the Ministry.
Andrew and Eric: Yeah.
Eric: But I genuinely love this chapter for its trip down memory lane here, where we essentially recontextualize everything we’ve known about the entire plot of Book 2, for instance, which is, I think for the most part, a huge Book 6 to Book 2 connection that Book 6 really reinforms what we thought about what was going on in Book 2. The idea that the diary was not just an enchanted diary, that Dumbledore specifically points to its ability to sap the life force of Ginny Weasley, as saying, “No, this was a Horcrux.” The idea that when we’re getting introduced to Horcruxes, we’ve never seen or heard of them before, but yet have this whole book of one where we can go back and revisit, and nothing inspired me more to reread Book 2 than to see… to find out that the diary was one of these things, and it’s just a great full circle moment, like a great secret. The curtain has been lifted, and we now have this insight just that we’ve been super, super close to Horcruxes all along.
Andrew: Yeah, watching J.K. Rowling weave this all together and reviewing Dumbledore’s thought process through all this is pretty amazing.
Micah: Exactly. We were introduced to Horcruxes in the second book, but had no idea what they were or how large of a role they were going to play down the line, and that’s just J.K. Rowling. So keep an eye on Bunty.
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: If, therefore yes. The interesting thing, I think, in this conversation between Dumbledore and Harry – and I know he sets him up along the way of, “Remember, he collects trophies; we covered all this” – this is where you get a lot of justification for the previous memories that Dumbledore and Harry went into, which I think is also very good. It’s why this book succeeds, is you have a very clear picture of why Harry and Dumbledore were doing all this. But Dumbledore has sort of a throwaway line that says that he doesn’t believe Voldemort ever really made it to seven, that he was going to make Harry’s death, or the murder of Harry, the defining act that created his seventh and final Horcrux.
Micah: Ohhh, shit. Oh, sorry.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: Oh, what? Which part?
Micah: Well, this is interesting because he does also throw Nagini into the picture, and Harry asks a very important question, being that Nagini is a living, breathing thing, as to if you could create a Horcrux out of that. And Dumbledore says, basically, in the world of Horcruxes, it’s highly discouraged to do something like that; never mind that creating Horcruxes in the first place is a problem.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Andrew: Right, as if Tom cares about that.
Micah: Exactly. And so this is where I started to really pick up on the fact that Harry himself… and Dumbledore says a lot more that I think, when he’s talking about the prophecy, that really leads you to think that Harry could potentially be a Horcrux himself. And the line was, “He heard the prophecy and he leapt into action -“ this is referring to Voldemort “- with the result that he not only handpicked the man most likely to finish him, he handed him uniquely deadly weapons! […] It is Voldemort’s fault that you were able to see into his thoughts, his ambitions, that you even understand the snakelike language in which he gives orders, and yet, Harry, despite your privileged insight into Voldemort’s world, […] you have never been seduced by the Dark Arts.” And this is where it just clicked for me, and I’ll be honest; I don’t remember from the first read-through, and this never crossed my mind in reading this that Harry would be a Horcrux, but reading these actual lines now, it’s like, “How could I have not thought that?”
Laura: Right.
Andrew: Yeah. Well, remember, it was a huge debate leading up to Book 7. Friendships were broken over that.
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: We can name specific ones. [laughs]
Andrew: No. [laughs] Personally, I never cared for the debate. I was just like, “Look, whatever happens.”
Micah: Books were sold on it.
Andrew: Yeah, I mean, potentially.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: New York Times bestselling books were sold on it. [laughs] But I think that it’s kind of a question, I think following Book 7, that Harry was an accidental Horcrux, an unintended bit of soul that flew off. I think that’s the best way to describe it. And the way that this works for me, though, is however it is that you create a Horcrux… and J.K. Rowling has said she will never tell us, and I support that, because somebody’s bound to try it; get their Warner Bros. $50 interactive wand together in a ceremony after they’ve murdered somebody close to them, try and say some spells. I guarantee it’ll… you know in this crazy world, somewhere in Florida, it will happen.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: So I’m going to say that it’s best we don’t know. But I’m assuming, in general, that there’s a pre-ceremony and an after ceremony, and whatever – whether it’s a potion, an incantation, you prepare your soul to be split beforehand – I would say Voldemort went ahead and did all that, and so at the time of his downfall, it kind of softened the… I don’t know; there’s probably a bread term to use for this. But it softened the soul to be split, and that was what allowed the transference between Voldemort and Harry to occur.
Laura: I agree with that.
Micah: Let’s talk a little bit about some of these other Horcruxes, though.
Eric: Sure.
Micah: The ring… we finally get an explanation for Dumbledore’s black hand, and again, hindsight’s 20/20, but clearly somebody was tempted by power. We know that Dumbledore is in possession of the Elder Wand, and within the ring lies the Resurrection Stone. He had two of the Deathly Hallows in his possession at the same time.
Eric and Laura: Yep.
Laura: And it makes me wonder; I’m like, “Have you learned nothing? What are you doing?”
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Yeah, all he has to do is ask Harry for his cloak, which I think he does. I think when they go to the cave, he tells him to bring his cloak, which means that I think one point for a brief moment, they’re all in the same room together or something. Not sure on that. But I love that he tells Harry that the ring is no longer a Horcrux, but he says nothing about it still being the Resurrection Stone, this immensely powerful object to recall loved ones from the dead.
Andrew: Well, Dumbledore could never possibly reveal everything at once.
Eric: I know, right?
Andrew: But this is a pretty good chapter for Dumbledore, in terms of revealing things, so I can’t complain too much.
Eric: [laughs] I guess that’s true.
Micah: Could Dumbledore then have just rode off into the sunset, Eric, if he snatched the Invisibility Cloak from Harry?
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Eric: Probably.
Andrew: “I win!”
Eric: I don’t know. Well, Dumbledore, at this point in the book, has kind of resigned himself to his fate. The curse on his arm – although he downplays it for Harry – will kill him, and so he’s kind of been preparing all year to die. So I think at this point, if he were to grab all three Deathly Hallows, nothing would really prevent him truly from dying all the same.
Micah: I wonder, though, what would have happened? He’s clearly tempted by this Deathly Hallow, and it ultimately is the reason why he’s… as you said, if Malfoy doesn’t come along to do the job, then this is going to kill him. And so his quest for power, really, finally, is what ends up doing him in.
Eric: I think there’s a misunderstanding that… wasn’t it the possibility of seeing Ariana again that made him…?
Laura: That’s what I was thinking.
Eric: Yeah, I think so.
Micah: Yeah, I was talking more so larger picture, because we know that he’s always been in search of these Hallows and other Horcruxes. And this goes to your point, Eric, about how we’re finally seeing the payoff of Harry and Dumbledore going into those other memories. Harry correctly guesses that Hufflepuff’s cup and Slytherin’s locket are likely Horcruxes, and Dumbledore adds Nagini into the mix, leaving one final Horcrux, either of Ravenclaw’s or Gryffindor’s; it’s unclear at this point what that could be. But I think Harry also – and I don’t know if this was fan service on the part of J.K. Rowling – Harry said, “Well, they could be anything. It could be a tin can,” and Dumbledore is like, “Nah, you’re thinking of Portkeys.” But if Voldemort had taken the most simple of objects, like a tin can, there’d be no way that you could possibly track something like that down.
Andrew and Eric: Right.
Andrew: But this is what Dumbledore explains in this chapter. Voldemort – I guess this is just a problem with Voldemort – he wanted to put his soul into these iconic pieces of wizarding world history. If it were any of us – and I’m sorry that I’m considering about making Horcruxes for myself again – but if it were any of us, yeah, I would put it in a completely random object that nobody would ever find, because that is the way to ensure that I would live forever. Ha ha ha!
Eric: [laughs] Yeah, it’s a double-edged sword because Voldemort, in putting them in these hugely recognizable, sought after objects, thinks he’s strengthening himself. He thinks that those objects’ innate magical properties will further protect his soul; he’s really overdoing it. But in fact, it gives Harry more of a guidebook – and anybody, really – more of a to-do list on how to find these Horcruxes and destroy them. So it ends up making Voldemort’s plan a lot more discernible, which is a huge problem for him in the end.
Micah: And Harry also asks an interesting question of Dumbledore, and that’s whether or not Voldemort can feel when one of his Horcruxes are destroyed. And the film does a very good job of this, but Dumbledore makes it clear that Voldemort is so immersed in evil, and these crucial parts of himself have been detached for so long, he does not feel as we do.
Eric: This is one of those things that works for the book, but it works for the movie, and it’s the exact opposite.
Laura: Yep.
Eric: Because in the movies, he does feel it. In the books, he doesn’t. And I mean, I understand the connection. Harry goes all weird, side-eyed during the movies whenever a Horcrux is destroyed, and so does Voldemort. It ups the tension; I get it. This is one of those things, though. The books got to be the books and the movie got to be the movie.
Laura: Agreed. Although I could have done without all of Ralph Fiennes’s weird sound effects that he made.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
[Andrew imitates Voldemort’s weird noises]
Laura: Well, and also, at one point, remember when he announced that Harry Potter was dead, and he did that really weird laugh?
Micah: And dance.
[Laura laughs]
Micah: He did a little shimmy.
Andrew: Did he? No.
Laura: [laughs] Yeah, he did!
Eric: Shimmy and shake.
Andrew: I need to watch this movie again.
Micah: And he hugged Draco, which was really weird.
Laura: It was so weird.
Andrew: That was the thing the Internet still can’t stop talking about.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Andrew: I kind of understood it. I mean, Voldemort is just elated. He did it, he won, so he’s going to do weird things in that moment to celebrate.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: Yeah, I tend to agree. Speaking of, Andrew, I know your favorite book that J.K. Rowling has written is The Tales of Beedle the Bard, but I wanted to mention that all of this, this chapter and everything, is very similar to one of the stories in Beedle the Bard, not “The Tale of the Three Brothers,” but “The Warlock’s Hairy Heart,” which is my favorite of The Tales of Beedle the Bard. We talk about a wizard who takes his heart out of his chest, stores it for safe-keeping away from himself, and revisits it after years, only to find that it has grown and taken on kind of a life of itself. It’s very Horcrux-y, and I’ve just got to shout out because I love that story. Have you guys read this? Do you guys have opinions on it as a story of Beedle the Bard?
Micah: I like the analogy.
Andrew: I haven’t read it in a while, so I cannot…
Laura: Yeah, it’s been a while.
Eric: It’s a good one. I would encourage all of our listeners to revisit it, because it’s short, like all of them are.
Andrew: Well, I do have the illustrated edition now, so maybe I will open it up and read it for you.
Eric: Oh, cool.
Micah: Well, Dumbledore and Harry are going to be going on a little trip together.
Andrew: Yeah, this is another… I was shocked how Dumbledore was like, “Yeah, you can come along. Of course.”
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: Dumbledore is usually so wanting to do everything by himself. Clearly, he’s been doing that this book, and now all of a sudden, Harry is like, “Can I come?” And Dumbledore being so receptive to that? It was pretty surprising.
Laura: Well, I think it’s because Dumbledore can see the timeline, and he knows where things are going, and ultimately he needs Harry to witness Snape murdering him.
Micah: And then, Laura, you put in an interesting point here about really the prophecy, and the prophecy gets a lot of airtime in this chapter, and I just think that what you say here is relevant to Fantastic Beasts.
Laura: Yeah, so Dumbledore has this great rant about tyrants and how they create self-fulfilling prophecies, specifically talking about Voldemort choosing to make the prophecy real, right? And he talks about how the Hall of Prophecies; “Do you think that most of those prophecies ever came true? No, they didn’t, because the people they were about didn’t choose to make them true, but Voldemort did choose, in this case, to do it.” And he has this great line about how tyrants always end up bestowing power on the people that they choose to hunt, and this just has so much more meaning now that we know more about Grindelwald. This isn’t just coming from an academic place of study; this is real world experience that is informing the statement.
Andrew: Yeah. These are some big thoughts from Dumbledore, and I actually read this area a couple of times, because it’s just a moment of such brutal honesty. And Dumbledore is getting a little desperate, it seems like, because Harry, it takes him a minute to grasp the situation, though of course, he does at the end. I really like this scene.
Eric: Yeah, definitely. And this whole tyrants thing… I’m okay with viewing it from a distance. I don’t know how I feel about it upon closer scrutiny. It services the story quite well. I don’t know world history-wise what… I guess I’d have to know enough about history to say that that was always the case, or if this is a lofty expectation that people are going to be given special powers by a tyrant they have to rise up against. I just… I don’t know necessarily how it applies to the real world, but it works decently well enough to see Dumbledore’s passion, to talk about it in this chapter of this book.
Laura: I think it does apply.
Eric: Yeah, using Grindelwald as like, “Hey, this means him” kind of a thing does excite me. It makes more sense that Dumbledore is talking about a specific occurrence in his own history, rather than broadly generalizing world history.
Laura: I think that it does apply to world history, though, because obviously, tyrants in the real world aren’t bestowing magical powers upon the people that they’re trying to subjugate, but ultimately, those people would not have the drive or the stamina to stand up and defeat those tyrants had those tyrants not started trying to pursue nefarious missions in the first place. And I think that’s the point that Dumbledore is trying to make here, in this sort of tirade he goes on, is this really does boil down to Voldemort’s choice, and had Voldemort chosen to ignore the prophecy, then Harry’s parents wouldn’t be dead. Harry wouldn’t be the Chosen One.
Andrew: All he had to do was just live out a normal life.
Eric: Not kill anybody else.
Andrew: Not split his soul.
Micah: Yep. Eric, you had one final point here?
Eric: Yeah, about the Mirror of Erised. This goes so low under the radar here, but Dumbledore says words to the effect of, “Do you know how remarkably few wizards could look into the Mirror of Erised and see what it was that you saw?” And on one hand, I’m thinking, “Oh, Harry saw his dead parents.” This whole time, we’re like, “Harry just wants to be close to his family.” But Dumbledore adds a little context in this chapter. Dumbledore tells Harry that he saw the way to defeating Voldemort in the mirror, and we’re not even talking about him finding the stone in his pocket. Harry seeing his loved ones was actually seeing that love is what’s going to kill Voldemort, and I’m kind of blown away by this, particularly because I just read it on the most recent reread. I realized that Dumbledore is actually talking about the mirror told Harry… because what Harry really wanted, I guess, not as a retcon, but as a re-informing, was not to see his dead parents and be with them again, but to defeat Voldemort, who killed his family. So the mirror showed him the way to doing that was to love where you came from. That just… did you guys know this before? Because that just blew my mind.
Andrew: Well, I think it was just an important moment because I think, as Dumbledore says, most people would not see something that relates to family love in it. Most people, like he, would see something material. Doesn’t he see socks or…?
Eric: Well, he sees physical love between him and Grindelwald.
Laura: I was going to say, he says he sees socks. [laughs]
Andrew: Right, right, right. True. Yeah, so I don’t know. I think it just speaks to the fact that Harry… Ron sees himself, what, on the Quidditch team, I think? It just speaks to the fact that Harry, the most important thing to him, the thing that he desires most, is being with his family again, and maybe receiving the love of his family.
Eric: Yeah, definitely. For sure. I just love that one of the enduring questions of the series happened in Chapter 12 or 13 of Book 1. But what Dumbledore sees in the Mirror of Erised, what Harry sees in the Mirror of Erised… so crazy that most of the way through Book 6, we’re still getting additional context that informs why Harry saw what he saw, or how, and what it means. I just… it’s a mark of a good series.
Andrew and Micah: Yeah.
Micah: I mean, this particular chapter really just… it hits on so many different things, and it’s really because Dumbledore is willing to just cut to the chase finally, and not really beat around the bush, and just be straight up with Harry about a lot of things. Not everything, as we know, but a lot, and I think for readers, a lot that we had been waiting to learn and to hear directly from Dumbledore himself. So I think that’s a good place to wrap up this chapter. Harry and Dumbledore are going to go off hunting Horcruxes.
Andrew: Fun little adventure they’re about to take.
Eric: A little picnic. Little field trip.
[Laura laughs]
Rename the Chapter
Andrew: And now let’s rename the chapter. What’s yours, Eric?
Eric: I called this Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince Chapter 23, “Nosy Portraits.” This whole time Harry and Dumbledore are going on this Horcrux discussion, every single headmaster of Hogwarts past and present are just craning their necks looking in. One man even takes out his ear trumpet; I guess he hears better that way. So yeah, nosy darn portraits should mind their own darn business.
Andrew: He wanted to hear every single detail. So why…? I mean, can they actually see into the memory? Or were they…?
Laura: I don’t think so.
Andrew: They just want to overhear Harry and Dumbledore’s actual conversation.
Eric: Yeah, but isn’t it a huge security risk to have all of these sentient creatures now in on Voldemort’s utter inner plans?
Andrew: Yeah, we know they all talk with each other and hang out, so word could spread quickly.
Eric: Yeah, and people like Phineas Nigellus Black are awful people who shouldn’t be trusted with that secret.
Micah: Well, and they have multiple portraits.
Eric: That’s exactly it.
Andrew: Right. I mean, they use those portraits to get information quickly from different areas, [laughs] so we know it works.
Eric: Yep.
Laura: Are they able to leave Hogwarts, though?
Eric: Yeah. I mean, Phineas Nigellus Black is, at the very least, because his other portrait is at, what, Grimmauld Place?
Laura: Yeah, you’re right.
Eric: So any one of them could be a spy for Voldemort or the Dark side, or have a famous portrait in a Death Eater’s home that goes and is like, “Hey, listen, your boy’s figured out.” Huge, huge plot hole, potentially.
Andrew: But presumably, Dumbledore trusts all the people in these portraits. Yeah, one of them could be a spy, but this is where Dumbledore pretty much lives, and if he doesn’t know all these portraits very intimately, then he’s made a big mistake.
Eric: That’s fair.
Micah: I almost wonder if they’re… not sworn, but in a way obliged to just work with whomever the headmaster is at the time.
Laura: That’s what I was wondering too.
Andrew: Little blood pact.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Micah: A paint pact?
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: Yeah, and if they don’t, he’ll just torch their portrait.
[Everyone laughs]
Micah: That’s right.
Andrew: Or your paint melts away. What’s your chapter title, Laura?
Laura: I called mine Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince Chapter 23, “All You Need Is Love.”
Andrew: Aww.
Laura: Because Harry has that moment where he’s… it’s kind of funny in the chapter. Dumbledore is like, “You have the one thing that Voldemort doesn’t have,” and Harry is like, “God, I know! Love! Sounds so lame, Dumbledore.” But it’s true.
Andrew: [laughs] Yeah, and it does sound lame.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Micah: I went with Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince Chapter 23, “That Night in Dumbledore’s Office.”
Eric: Oooh.
Andrew: And mine is Harry Potter and Half-Blood Prince Chapter 23, “The Seven,” because that’s important.
[Eric laughs]
MVP of the Week
Andrew: And now MVPs of the Week.
Eric: Yep, I gave mine to Nearly Headless Nick for, I don’t know, having the hot goss. Showing up at the right time, always knowing that Dumbledore is back; he heard it from the Bloody Baron, who heard it from, well, I guess Dumbledore himself. So yeah, MVP for me.
Andrew: The hot goss.
Laura: I said Tom Riddle. I know we don’t like the guy, but he’s good at what he does.
Andrew: Wow.
Micah: He had a good week.
Andrew: And you’re giving me crap for wanting to create Horcruxes.
[Laura laughs]
Micah: I went with the Bloody Baron, because there’s no way that Nearly Headless Nick would have been able to tell Harry that Dumbledore was back unless the Bloody Baron had seen him.
Andrew: Yeah. And mine was Lug… [laughs]
Micah: Lughorn?
Andrew: Lug. Young Slughorn, because the information that he does hand over, of course, is very important to the Harry Potter series. And again, I know I’m giving off this theme that I respect people who create Horcruxes, and, uh… no comment.
[Eric laughs]
Laura: Andrew, are you a Slytherin?
Andrew: Look, it… yeah. Well, I converted two years ago.
[Micah laughs]
Laura: You converted?
Andrew: Yeah, I did.
Laura: Wait, what were you before?
Andrew: A Gryffindor.
Laura: Jeez, man. You just flew from one extreme to the other.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: It was January 2017, and I said to myself, “New year, new me.”
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: And I went to the theme park and I bought the Slytherin sweater, and that was that. I think Pottermore may have told me that I was Slytherin too? I can’t remember. It just seems cool.
Laura: I feel like Slytherin actually makes sense for you.
Andrew: Oh, okay.
Laura: Not because you’re a murderer or anything.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: “Based on what I know about you…”
Laura: No, just the fact that Slytherins are very savvy people, I feel.
Andrew: Oh, wow. Thank you, Laura.
Laura: And you’re a very savvy person.
Andrew: You’re raising a good point here.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Quizzitch
Andrew: So it’s time now for Quizzitch.
Eric: Yes, last week’s question: Who tells Nearly Headless Nick about Dumbledore’s whereabouts? We just touched on this; the correct answer is the Bloody Baron. We have a slight alteration to how we’re playing this game now because we are, of course, expanding on our social media platforms thanks to our new social media manager, Jule. What’s going to happen… she’s asked me to let you know that we are playing Quizzitch on Instagram on Thursdays; it’s going to be added to our story. So to give you guys each time to listen to our episodes each week, the new Quizzitch question each week will be posted on Thursdays as our @MuggleCastPod story, and then that’s where… in the story you’ll be able to, from what I understand – I sound like an old man when I’m saying this – but I think you’ll be able to reply to the story via the thing on Thursdays.
Andrew: You can, yeah.
Eric: Okay.
Andrew: You can post a question in your Instagram story, and people can just tap the question and write an answer. Very interactive.
Eric: Okay, so that’s… yeah, that’s happening on Thursdays. It’s pretty cool stuff. Congratulations to Karen Sass, Jennifer, Willis, John Tubbs, Haley the Amazing Weasley, Amanda Graff, Reese Without Her Spoon…
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Eric: … Mara Jo, FCAthope2425, Shauna Kreiger, S. Fox, Coriander Gay, Voyage with Helen, and Fluffy McNutters Cosplay for winning on Instagram. And I think in the future, we’ll just do a congratulations on our story, so the Instagram winners will stay on Instagram. And as always, you can play this game on Twitter using hashtag #Quizzitch. Correct answers this week came from A Man Has No Name, Retta Gamboe, Elf Owl, Lara Catherine, Karin Fröjdh, Justice for the Fat Lady, Dumby the Bumblebee, Sarah Davis, PotterHobbit, Real Slim Brady, Sara a.k.a. Weensie, Megan, Tara, and Stacey Davis, and SuperMandy, so congratulations, everybody.
Andrew: Why do we need justice for the Fat Lady? Can you please answer that question in your next Twitter name, Justice for the Fat Lady?
Eric: Because Micah is calling for her to be torched because she had one moment of cheekiness.
[Laura laughs]
Micah: Well, did they just answer Quizzitch in the last hour?
Andrew: [laughs] Right.
Micah: Or did they just know what we were going to do to her?
Eric: Yeah, I have no idea.
Laura: I mean, she did get her portrait slashed up in Book 3, so maybe that’s what they’re talking about.
Andrew: Aw, yeah. Poor woman.
Eric: Still feel bad about her for that.
Micah: Well, who do we expect justice for in the next episode? Is it the Fat Lady? Or do we need to pick another character for somebody to send in a voicemail about?
Andrew: Young Slughorn.
Eric: Yeah. So next week’s Quizzitch question comes, as always, from our forthcoming chapter that we’ll be reading: How long does Felix Felicis take to make?
Andrew: Huh. All right, so if you would like to get in touch with us, go to MuggleCast.com and there is a contact form. There is a button to the contact form right at the top of the site. You can also email us directly, MuggleCast@gmail.com; tweet us, Twitter.com/MuggleCast; or hit us up on Instagram. We are checking the DMs, so you can slide into those if you wish to reach out to us that way. Or, of course, you can call us; 1-920-368-4453. Just try to keep your message about a minute long, and make sure you are in a quiet place. We would also love your support at Patreon.com/MuggleCast. We’re closing in on a thousand patrons; it’d be pretty great if we hit a thousand patrons in the months ahead. And once you do pledge, you are going to have instant access to lots of benefits, including a plethora of bonus MuggleCast installments. You will also get early access to the show because you can tune into our livestreams. And thanks to everybody who is listening live right now; give a shout-out to some of you. Rebecca, Ashley, Ricky, JY, Morgan, Petra. Thanks for tuning in on this Saturday morning. We recorded early. You may have noticed us slowly waking up over the course of this episode. [laughs]
Micah: Well, and it’s 4/20, so I mean, we generally would be a little bit sluggish.
Laura: [laughs] Oh, man.
Andrew: I don’t partake. I’m sober.
Laura: Micah, I love that you brought that up.
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: Next week we will just do a discussion on marijuana in the Harry Potter series. Who uses it and why? Did J.K. Rowling…?
Micah: Let’s say who… if we could all name one character… maybe we’ll save it for next week. Who do we think…?
Eric: Sprout.
Micah: Well, who do we think uses it? Or who do we think can really benefit from it?
Andrew: [laughs] I say use it, and I say Trelawney.
[Micah laughs]
Laura: I think definitely the Weasley twins, Fred and George. They’re for sure using it. I think Umbridge could benefit.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Laura: Chill out.
Andrew: I bet Draco and Crabbe and Goyle have all dabbled in it at some point.
Micah: I can see Hagrid, down in that hut.
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: There’s all this smoke coming out. People are like, “Oh, wow, he’s got a nice fire going on in there.” Nope.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Andrew: All right. Thanks, everybody, for listening. We’ll see you next week. I’m Andrew.
Eric: I’m Eric.
Micah: I’m Micah.
Laura: And I’m Laura. Bye!
Andrew, Eric, and Micah: Bye.