Transcript for MuggleCast Episode #750, Horcrux Marks the Spot (HBP Chapter 24, ‘Sectumsempra’)
Cold Open
Andrew: I’ve gotten comments from some of my friends over the years about dating my sister.
Micah: Why are you looking at me?
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: No, Micah, he’s just looking into his camera. You feeling guilty, bro?
Show Intro
[Show music plays]
Andrew Sims: Welcome to MuggleCast, your ride into the world of Harry Potter. I’m Andrew.
Eric Scull: I’m Eric.
Micah Tannenbaum: I’m Micah.
Laura Tee: And I’m Laura.
Andrew: And we’re your Harry Potter friends, gathering to talk about the books and the movies and the TV show, so follow us in your podcast app and you’ll never miss an episode. And this week, don’t get on Harry’s bad side, because we’re discussing Chapter 24 of Half-Blood Prince, “Sectumsempra.” But before we continue, if you love MuggleCast as much as Voldemort loves turning his jewelry into soul backups, head over to Patreon.com/MuggleCast and support us there. To thank you, you’ll receive bonus episodes of the show, ad-free episodes, a monthly Zoom hangout with us and your fellow Harry Potter friends, an on-air shout-out, and lots more. We can’t do this without you, so thank you so much in advance.
Micah: You know, Andrew, I didn’t realize until you just said that how much of a fashionista Voldemort actually is, if you think about all of his Horcruxes.
Andrew: Yes, yes. And the cloak that he wears.
Laura: Totally.
Andrew: Say what you want about him, but Voldemort’s got style.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: Thank you to recent patrons, including Jess, Nicole, Megan, Daniel – Voldemort, wow – Shelby, Roxanne, and Ian. We should just throw in a random Harry Potter character name every time.
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: Dedalus Diggle! Thanks, man!
Laura: Wow, that’s awkward. Oops.
Andrew: J.K. Rowling. [laughs]
Micah: Oh, geez.
Laura: Blocked.
Andrew: [laughs] Coming up in bonus MuggleCast this week: You guys, MuggleNet is dead. Did you see this this week? It’s gone.
Eric and Laura: Yeah.
Andrew: The MuggleNet we knew and loved is gone, so we’re going to talk about that and what happened. Some volunteers are suing, too, so we’ll get into that a little bit. Were you all sad when you saw this news? We got our start at MuggleNet.
Eric: I’m living this news, actually.
Andrew: Oh.
Eric: The whole process has been crazy to see what’s happened. But yeah, they scrubbed the site, so the parent company has erased all fan-generated content and replaced it with just all this official crap.
Laura: Yeah, I saw their top post was about Cinnabon coming out with butterbeer-flavored food items.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Didn’t Micah try some of that stuff?
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: Coffee Mate. That was Coffee Mate.
Andrew: That was a creamer. [laughs]
Micah: Yeah, but I wouldn’t be surprised if we looked in our email inbox if there was a note from Cinnabon.
Eric: An invitation to collab? Yeah, let’s not do that, because we should support the many years that we ourselves poured into that website, and not allow, or not, I don’t know, sit by while this kind of thing happens. So I’ll say more in the bonus.
Andrew: Yeah, we’ll talk about it in bonus MuggleCast this week. I think we all have some thoughts to get off our chest, and certainly it’s an end of an era. So that’ll be available at Patreon.com/MuggleCast this week. And we’d also appreciate, listeners, if you left us a review in your favorite podcast app, or told a fellow Muggle about our show, and you can visit MuggleCastMerch.com to buy official show gear, like a “Choo-choo” shirt or a “Security nightmare” hat.
Chapter by Chapter: Pensieve
Andrew: Now it’s time for Chapter by Chapter, and this week, we’re discussing Half-Blood Prince Chapter 24, “Sectumsempra.” Before we start, I did just want to say that the full-cast audiobook of Half-Blood Prince was released this month. If you’ve been tempted to try these out, now might be a good time. You can listen to each full-cast chapter before listening to the corresponding episode of MuggleCast.
Laura: Ooh, good idea.
Andrew: Yeah, right? Right? These are exclusively available on Audible, and I’m doing this now. I’ve listened to the last two chapters through with the full-cast audiobook.
Eric: Nice.
Andrew: It’s a fun experience.
Micah: I’m still back in Philosopher’s Stone. I need to do a little bit of catching up.
Eric: They came out pretty quick.
Andrew and Micah: Yeah.
Eric: This whole once a month, one per book…
Micah: But there’s also a lot of news that’s being generated around these audiobooks as it relates to the TV show, because I’ve seen rumors out there that Kit Harrington is potentially under consideration for Gilderoy Lockhart in the TV show, and we know that he voiced him in the Chamber of Secrets audiobook. So I feel like we’re going to start to see maybe a little bit more of this crossover, like we did with the Hermione actress.
Andrew: Right, the actress who did the first three audiobooks – and then they switched to older cast members – she’s going to be Hermione in the TV show. By the way, when we watched that documentary a few weeks ago about the TV show, it sounded to me like Arabella Stanton was first cast for the TV show, and then she got cast for the audiobook. That was the impression I was getting. Anywho.
Eric: Let’s get over to our MuggleCast Pensieve segment, and this week’s chapter, “Sectumsempra,” was last discussed on Episode 415 of MuggleCast. That episode was titled “The Worst at Everything He Does,” and it aired on April 29, 2019, and this clip in our Pensieve segment is my number two favorite clip.
Dumbledore: What you are looking at are memories. This is the most important memory I’ve collected. It is from MuggleCast Episode 415.
[Sound of memory uncorking]
[Sound of plunging into Pensieve]
Micah: So he sees Draco in a bathroom, and first off, Draco could have just been doing some business down there, taking a dump…
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Micah: … and Harry is just like, “Oh, let me go check in on Draco. Open the door on him.”
Andrew: Well, wait a second, is this a private one-person bathroom, or is it…?
Micah: It’s not, but he still could have been taking a shit.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Andrew: Well, and then if he saw the door was locked, maybe he would have respected his privacy.
Micah: No, no, he could have walked in, right? I’m assuming it has multiple stalls available.
Andrew: Right, that’s my point. If the stall was locked. Go on.
Micah: I mean, yes, he was at the sink crying…
Laura: Yeah, but does it have those really awkward cracks between the door and the stall wall that you can totally see through if you’re being a creep?
[Eric and Micah laugh]
Andrew: That’s why I bring a blanket. I cover those up.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Micah: You couldn’t wait for him to come out of the bathroom?
[Sound of exiting Pensieve]
Dumbledore: This memory is everything.
Eric: Seven years later.
Micah: Where else would you get that analysis?
Eric: That quality content has been on our feed for seven years.
Laura: Oh, man.
Micah: What’s amazing is that didn’t cross my mind once while rereading the chapter. [laughs]
Andrew: That’s growth.
Eric: Yeah, that’s growth.
Laura: Exactly. You know better, you do better. You know what I mean? And who would have known seven years ago that the topic of bathrooms would have become such a controversy in this fandom? But here we are.
Chapter by Chapter: Main Discussion
Andrew: Well, we are going to start today’s Chapter by Chapter with this chapter’s namesake, Sectumsempra. Harry is in full stalker mode, constantly checking the Marauder’s Map to see where Draco might be to figure out what the heck he’s been up to. And one day while looking at the map, he sees Draco in the sixth floor boys’ bathroom, and he’s with Moaning Myrtle. So Harry decides to go and creep in on this meeting, and Harry sees Myrtle the therapist trying to help Draco, but Draco says, “No one can help me, and I can’t do a thing,” and that’s when he spots Harry in the mirror, and things get heated fast. Now, Micah, we heard your thoughts seven years ago. I think you have some related thoughts in terms of entering this room.
Micah: Yeah, these are a little bit more mature thoughts than what I presented last time. As you said, growth is important. But I am curious what Harry hoped to achieve by just busting into this very private moment between Draco and Moaning Myrtle, and I think his mind is just a little bit too preoccupied with Quidditch and Ginny and Horcruxes to really be thinking straight. Do you agree?
Andrew: Oh, yeah. I absolutely agree. But Harry is being driven crazy by Draco, and he’s just not thinking clearly in terms of a strategy.
Micah: Right, which he probably should have. Given how much time he spends obsessing over Draco in this book, he had no plan for when he finally confronts him.
Eric: It’s so interesting, Harry’s mood in this book. I don’t think I would have noticed how inconsistent it was on an earlier reread, but yeah, he’s spent all this time obsessing over Malfoy, and – to your point, Micah – doesn’t have a plan and just kind of goes in, and it escalates real quickly.
Laura: Yeah. I mean, this kind of tracks for Harry this book, to be honest. This is almost the opposite end of the spectrum for what he does with Slughorn, right? He was kind of avoiding doing anything about Slughorn for the longest, until he had no choice but to use the Felix Felicis, and now he’s been trying to stealth mode Malfoy all year, and just decides to barge in on him like that’s going to do anything. Harry is not the best planner, is what I’m getting at here, and the only reason he survives these books is because of Hermione.
Andrew: [laughs] It always comes back to that.
Laura: Fight me if you disagree.
Micah: No, I won’t, but I did want to ask why Harry has never seen Draco with Moaning Myrtle before this very moment. With how often he is checking the Marauder’s Map, how obsessed he has been with Draco, this is the first time he’s noticing this?
Eric: Yeah, that’s really unbelievable, because, in fact, Harry and Ron even have found Moaning Myrtle in a bathroom before, coming out and saying that she’s been talking to someone. And we know now, confirmed in this chapter, that Moaning Myrtle appears on the map, so it’s just one of those… it actually makes me wonder what the Marauders knew, or if they knew her, because she’s on the map. But at the same time, yeah, Harry should have seen them together before. And also, upon seeing them together, should have put two and two together that that’s who Moaning Myrtle was talking about as being this kind, sensitive boy who’s in trouble and working through some stuff, and if Harry had remembered that, he probably wouldn’t have barged in so quickly. Or maybe he would have. I don’t know.
Andrew: But Harry would never consider Draco kind and sensitive, so he wouldn’t have…
Eric: Oh, yeah. That’s right. “He’s my enemy.” Yeah, no.
Andrew: “Kind and sensitive? Evil and mean, and a bully. And blond.”
Eric: But it’s clear… yeah, I mean, how many people does Moaning Myrtle socialize with on a day-to-day basis? Very few.
Andrew: Yeah. So Draco and Harry do get into this fight; Draco casts the first spell, but it leads to Harry winning the duel when he casts his newly learned Sectumsempra out of Snape’s copy of Advanced Potion-Making. My question here is: Was Harry right to use Sectumsempra? Because Draco did cast the first spell. He drew his wand first, sent the hex at him. Harry initially did try some other spells. He tried Levicorpus, and then he tried the Leg-Locker Curse; those didn’t work. He had just been reminded about Sectumsempra. So on one hand, yes, it was a very dangerous spell, but Harry didn’t know that. He also tried other spells, but then on the other hand, it was very irresponsible. But Draco sucks, so I kind of don’t blame him.
Eric: Well, it escalates. It certainly escalates, and it shows that these two boys are way out of their depth. Do we think Draco could have succeeded in…? Like, it would have actually affected Harry if he cast Crucio? Because he tried. Do we think he would have successfully cast it?
Andrew: Because he has to mean it?
Laura: That’s a really good question, because I don’t know, based on where Draco is at mentally at this point, I don’t know that he actually does have it in him to really mean that.
Andrew: But in the moment, Harry doesn’t really have time to consider that, and he’s just acting in self-defense.
Laura: Exactly.
Eric: I appreciate that Sectumsempra isn’t the first spell that Harry goes for, and that we’re shown that.
Andrew and Laura: Yes.
Eric: I had forgotten that point, and I really appreciate that it’s just these bitter rivals. But then the other sort of natural question to ask is, what would have happened if Snape weren’t so close by? What would have happened if Draco had died here? Now Harry, who just found out what a Horcrux is, would have a split soul on his hands.
Andrew: [laughs] “You want to know what a Horcrux is, boy? Now you know.”
Micah: He could have gotten rid of Voldemort in that moment.
Andrew: Maybe.
Eric: Oh, broke it off, detached it. Kicked it around. Say, “Here, Myrtle.”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Micah: The interesting thing about this, though, is that there is some precedent, especially in this book if you go back to earlier on; when he used Levicorpus on Ron, he had no idea what the spell was going to do. And so that’s where I fault Harry very much here, where he’s just deciding to use a spell that he doesn’t know what it’s going to do; he just knows that it’s “for enemies,” and it’s definitely reckless on his part.
Laura: Yeah, and I just want to call out, on that note, Rachelpuff and Mev are calling this out in our Discord: A little earlier in the chapter, it’s a blink-and-you’ll-miss-it line, but Harry thinks about trying Sectumsempra out on Cormac McLaggen in the corridors between class, because he doesn’t know what it does. So he’s casually thinking about, “Oh, I could try this on somebody who’s annoying to me.” McLaggen isn’t even…
Eric: That’s very James Potter-y.
Laura: Exactly.
Eric: Like, “Because Sirius is bored.”
Laura: Very James-coded. Good call.
Micah: The other thing I wanted to bring up is that it’s a bit frustrating that Harry casts the spell as well as he does, because he’s never learned it, to the points that were just raised, and we know that it takes time for somebody to be able to learn how to cast spells. I mean, look at all of the attempts we’ve seen – with Harry and Ron, particularly – over the course of the series. Hermione usually nails it in the first class.
Eric: Yeah, well, she’s read about it, which counts as spending hours of countless brainpower on thinking of the theory.
Micah: So I was wondering, is he tapping into something that’s deeper here? Is it similar to a fight or flight response? He’s in the moment, and so the energy with which he casts Sectumsempra is as if he’s been casting it all of his life.
Eric: Yeah. To me, this is the same way that Harry has always just been good at Defense Against the Dark Arts specifically. He’s like the anti-Dark Arts magnet, and so when his life is on the line, he’s going to just be able to do it. Same with the Patronus at the end of Book 3; he finds it within himself to do extraordinary magic without necessarily studying, planning, or knowing how it is that he can do it. I mean, he was one years old when he survived a Killing Curse. How did he do it? It’s just that same level of like, “Nope, can’t touch me.”
Andrew: Love, yeah. I do think the book – Snape’s book – hasn’t let Harry down yet, and so pair that with this spell is “for enemies,” and Harry feels very confident that whatever this is going to do is going to serve him well. Now, it served him extremely well. It did get the job done, to quote Chappell Roan.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: But yes, Draco could have died.
Micah: Couple of connecting the threads: It’s a bit ironic that Myrtle is yelling about murder in a bathroom, considering…
Eric: She lived it. Or didn’t.
Micah: And the other thing I was thinking about, too, is that we do get a duel between Harry and Draco in Chamber of Secrets. Much different outcome, though, here for poor Draco. But I did also think that it’d be cool to do a little bit of a name origin session here.
[Name origin sound effect plays]
Micah: So if you break apart the curse, “Sectum” means to cut or to sever, and “Sempra” means always or forever. So does nobody take Latin at Hogwarts?
[Andrew and Micah laugh]
Andrew: It’s kind of all over the place, including on the crest.
Laura: You would think they need to.
Eric: How funny that “sever” and “always” are Sectumsempra, a spell that’s introduced by Severus, whose key catchphrase is “Always.”
Andrew: Ooh, very good connection.
Laura: I love that.
Micah: This show is over.
Andrew: That’s a next level connecting the threads. That’s threads on threads.
Eric: Well, and as a contrast to… I know you mentioned a moment ago Draco and Harry, but in the Dueling Club chapter of Book 2, Draco is the one who has this advanced knowledge of spells, right? Nobody asked Draco to cast Serpensortia, is it, where the snake comes out of his wand? That’s got to be pretty darn advanced to do that kind of a spell. And here it’s Harry who has the upper hand, so it’s kind of like the tables have turned, because I don’t think… even though he’s comfortable using Unforgivables, I don’t think Draco has any clue anything about this type of magic.
Andrew: So let’s move along to Snape entering the scene. He gets there pretty quick, and he does, thank goodness, stitch up Draco, and then he gets him off to the hospital wing. We’ll get to what happens after in a moment. But I’m wondering how did Snape get there so quickly? Was he tailing Draco? Was he coincidentally nearby and he heard Myrtle and Draco and Harry? Or maybe by making the Unbreakable Vow, does that somehow alert him when there might be trouble with Draco since he did vow to help and protect Draco? What do you all think? Where was Snape? Why did he get there so quick?
Laura: It made me wonder if Snape had put some kind of Trace on Draco, similar to how the Ministry has Traces on anyone under the age of 17. You would think that there would be other ways that you could put a trace on a wizard, especially an underage one.
Eric: Yeah, and Dumbledore would allow it, because it’s in Dumbledore’s best interest to know what Draco is really up to. But yeah, I just question how much Snape is allowed to know about what Draco is up to, meaning… it’s obviously in his best interests. I think he was just lurking, because he probably suspected Draco’s deteriorating emotional state through whatever he saw him in, class or whatever most recently. And so I think he was just thankfully on hand nearby, because he doesn’t want to die, and if anything were to happen to Draco, and he would fail to protect him, or fail to usher Draco along in his mission, then he, Snape, is also dead. So I think that Snape takes it very seriously, the danger that his own life is in, and therefore he’s had to keep almost an annoyingly close watch on Draco.
Micah: Yeah, I agree. I think that also looking at what Draco has failed to accomplish thus far by attacking Katie Bell, attacking – indirectly – Ron, right? These were all attempts on presumably Dumbledore, and they’ve all gone really, really bad. So naturally, I think that Snape is keeping a close eye.
Andrew: After that, we get another hint that Snape is the Half-Blood Prince, and there have actually been a few of these over the course of this book. Harry hasn’t noticed them, evidently, because how could Snape have been so brilliant? Harry pretends he learned the spell from a library book, and Snape pretty much immediately calls him a liar. And Snape has hurled insults, of course, at Harry before, but Harry maybe should have thought a little more about why Snape was so quick to call him a liar. He knows where that spell came from!
Micah: He’s just not in any position to do so. If these were under different circumstances, I just feel like he would be much better positioned to question Snape, but because of what he’s just done… again, it’s much like at the very beginning of the chapter. I don’t think he’s thinking straight.
Eric: No. He’s in the middle of, to quote Chappell Roan, a Red Wine Supernova at the moment.
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: He’s just not thinking of anything else. He’s just only seeing red.
Laura: Did someone not tell me that we’re doing a Make the Music Connection with Chappell Roan this episode?
Micah: Laura, you and I have to come up with a reference before the end of the episode.
Laura: I know.
Andrew: Yeah, we’re waiting.
Laura: I’m going to be feverishly looking up Chappell Roan lyrics to see if I can make a connection before the end of the episode.
[Ad break]
Micah: There’s something unsanitary, though, about how Snape elicits this information, the truth from Harry, and it’s by reading his mind, and Harry knows it. And that should not be allowed under any circumstances at Hogwarts, especially from an adult to a 16-year-old child. That is just… we’ve talked about this before, especially when we did Order of the Phoenix, but this just doesn’t feel right.
Eric: Well, given the stakes, there’s a child here dying, and the person who did it is not immediately forthcoming about what the circumstances would be that led to this.
Micah: Can I ask, though, why does it matter where he learned the spell?
Eric: That’s fair.
Micah: The punishment really should just be for the fact that he used it. Why does Snape care where he learned it?
Eric: You know what? That’s a…
Andrew: No, but it matters because he knows he got it from his book.
Micah: No, I’m saying in the grand scheme…
Eric: Yeah, no, actually, I think you’re right, Micah, because the fact that he’s asking shows that he already knows, and so what he’s looking for is not any kind of punitive or more information that might save Draco’s life; he’s looking for it to satisfy his own curiosity, in a way. So maybe I could see there why it’s not the most necessary question or practice to be reading Harry’s mind over. If Harry were withholding crucial information, such as, I don’t know, the secret to Voldemort’s immortality, then I can see Snape using a Memory Charm or something to try and… Legilimency to get that from him.
Andrew: Yeah. Well, Snape does want answers, and he asks Harry to bring him all of his schoolbooks, and Harry goes and grabs his books, and then…
Eric: He’s actually happy to get out of there. He’s really Hot to Go.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: And yeah, I mean, that’s very accurate, actually. And Harry goes, grabs his books, including Advanced Potion-Making, also grabs Ron’s copy, but then he goes to the Room of Requirement, a little detour to place his copy of Advanced Potion-Making in there, and the room gives him a place filled with items that students and faculty have tried to hide over the years. Harry does hide his book and marks his spot with a bust, on top of which he puts a tarnished tiara, which ends up being Rowena Ravenclaw’s diadem. And then this, of course, comes into play in Deathly Hallows, so talk about a major foreshadow alert.
[Foreshadowing sound effect plays]
Andrew: Moments like this are just kind of amazing when you look back on everything.
Eric: Crazy.
Micah: There’s probably a cuckoo clock in the Room of Requirement as well.
Laura: Oh, for sure.
Andrew: Several, yeah.
Eric: That’s the only place to put them where you won’t hear them go off every hour on the hour.
Andrew: It’s kind of poetic, too, that Snape’s old book is hidden under a Horcrux.
Eric: I like that.
Laura: Right?
Andrew: Just those two things. [laughs]
Eric: Yeah. Because unlike Lucius and Bellatrix, Snape was never entrusted with a Horcrux specifically, so there you go, buddy.
Andrew: Aww.
Laura: Right. Horcrux marks the spot.
Andrew: Ooh, talk about an episode title.
Eric: There’s your title.
Laura: There you go. Not a Chappell Roan lyric as far as I know, but…
Eric: Oh.
Micah: Well, it’s way better than what we called the last time we did this episode.
Laura: True.
Eric: Yeah, “The Worst at Everything He Does.” Not wrong, though.
Micah: Not wrong. But Harry also does rush past a broken Vanishing Cabinet that he recalls Montague disappeared in last year…
Eric: Wonder what that’s doing in here.
Micah: … so there’s a lot of interesting stuff in this room.
Andrew: There sure is. That said, does the Room of Hidden Things defeat its own purpose? Because if tons of people have requested this room over the years – they all get the same room, clearly – wouldn’t you know where to go if you’re looking for something that you know someone wanted to hide? Or, on the other hand, does the sheer volume of items in the room make it the best place actually to hide something, even if someone who’s seeking out your hidden items knows about this room? Because the treasure hunt, it would be a needle in the haystack, it seems like, the way this room is described.
Eric: Yeah. I love this question. This is a chicken and egg; I don’t think there’s going to be an answer that’s discernible. Because if you ask the Room of Requirement that can bring anything you want, “A room to hide my things in,” you can assume – it is safe to assume – that everything in here was something somebody at some point wanted to hide. So I feel like that’s fair. But yeah, it is a needle in a haystack. It is just a crazy labyrinthine thing, so it’s like… I don’t know if you go through these things, and if you can safely assume that the value of these items is higher than, I don’t know, ordinary items that would spawn, or maybe Harry is just thinking, “Well, okay, the school is a thousand years old.” So what we’re looking at is stuff that was discarded probably by people who’ve been dead for 600 or 700 years, so there’s not really a higher value to this stuff than anything else you’d find, necessarily.
Laura: Yeah, and to be honest, I don’t know, I think about the things that teenagers would want to hide, and probably most of them graduated and forgot about it and just went on about their lives. Even if you did remember it, good luck remembering where you left it.
Andrew: It seems like an amazing room, though. I would love to just browse that. It feels like browsing an antique store, or thrift shop.
Eric and Laura: Yeah.
Eric: Well, that’s essentially the modern day equivalent, right? The closest thing we’ll ever get. Because you ever walk around a thrift store or an antique store specifically and wonder how an item ended up there? Who must have had it last? Or sometimes, oh, if you pull apart an old gramophone or something, an old piece of furniture, and then it has somebody’s name on it, or a book has somebody’s name on it. You don’t recognize the name, but it’s like, “Oh, this was somebody else’s.”
Andrew: You know what I’ve been doing recently? I started collecting old Vegas postcards, and I’ve been buying ones from eBay that have notes on the back of them, and it is incredible, the messages. And they’re dated, too. 1955; it’s got a one cent stamp on it. It’s so cool. I just love…
Eric: One cent stamp?!
Andrew: Seriously.
Eric: What radicalized me? Let me tell you, it’s that USPS used to be one cent?
Micah: You probably want to put those under a black light too.
Andrew: [laughs] What? Oh, it was…
Micah: Are they sealed?
Andrew: They’re nature areas of Vegas, not from the Strip.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Micah: Oh, okay. I’m just looking out for you.
Eric: I’ve got to say, first of all, Andrew, that’s a really cool thing to do.
Micah: It is.
Eric: That’s a cool thing to look up and try and collect. And second of all, I have some postcards I’m pretty sure I bought my first trip to the Strip in 2006, and I don’t think I ever filled them out, but I could send you some, if you like.
Andrew: Sure, sure.
Eric: It’s got Mandalay Bay on it and some other stuff, and I just never sent… for as often as I bought postcards, I think I only ever sent them from Europe or something, and that was after I got back.
Andrew: If you think I might need a blacklight for it, though, just please don’t send it. With peace and love.
Eric: No, no, I’ve been keeping them hermetically sealed in my safe room.
Andrew: Oh, great. [laughs]
Micah: In your Room of Requirement.
Andrew: So I want to talk a little bit more about how Snape is treating Harry. Snape has obviously never treated Harry fairly, and Snape did swear to protect Draco, so for the sake of debate, I wanted to ask: Is Snape being unfair to Harry here when he punishes Harry for using his own “For enemies” spell? Draco is Harry’s enemy and an enemy of Hogwarts right now, and I think we’re already in agreement that Snape has been treating him unfairly, and he’s always acting this way, but maybe Snape should consider Harry kind of had good reasons.
Eric: What I appreciate about Snape is what a POS he is. He’s always going to… even though he himself is dealing with a bunch of stuff, and there’s a great case to be made for Snape being responsible that this situation happened, but he’s always going to look for… because he and Harry don’t have to get along, right? They don’t have to be besties at all; that’s Dumbledore and Harry. But Snape doesn’t give a shit. So if Snape can punish Harry for doing something that he legitimately did, and also improve the chances of Slytherin or a non-Gryffindor House’s chances in the Quidditch cup, he’s going to do that. And so this is something where if you were Harry, of course it’s not strictly fair, but then again, you almost killed somebody, so you’re going to have to take the L here and accept the punishment. But if you’re Harry, you should just be more careful! Don’t go around wielding spells you don’t know anything about if you’re really excited about competing in Quidditch.
Andrew and Laura: Yeah.
Micah: Agree.
Laura: I think Harry actually gets off kind of light here relative to what he does.
Micah: Because if you were to take this into the Muggle world, and something like this happened at school, it’s a pretty severe incident.
Andrew: Oh, yeah.
Micah: And the likelihood is you would have been expelled for doing something equivalent to what Harry does to Draco in this moment. And I think that it’s actually surprising Harry doesn’t face worse punishment, and I think the only reason why is because of Dumbledore, because of what they need to achieve together. Had Lucius not been locked up and the Malfoy family overall in such hot water, I think it’s pretty likely he would have been punished far more severely than just his detentions with Snape and not playing Quidditch as a result of that.
Laura: Oh, yeah. Draco’s father definitely would have heard about this.
[Andrew and Micah laugh]
Andrew: “My father…”
Laura: And it does make me wonder if Snape or anyone at Hogwarts even bothered to contact the Malfoys about this.
Andrew: It’s a good question. You would hope so.
Laura: But at the same time, why? Because obviously Snape and Narcissa know what the deal is here; they understand what Draco is trying to do. So why would they draw attention to it? I don’t know.
Andrew: Final thing I’ll say on this is Harry didn’t intend to kill Draco. So I don’t know, maybe I’m being way too forgiving of Harry, but I just think he had his reasons that were… he was acting in self-defense. The only thing I’ll knock him for is that he didn’t know what the spell was going to do. Yes, that’s irresponsible, but in the moment, in the fog of war, maybe it wasn’t the worst idea, in my opinion.
Laura: You know, what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger.
Andrew: Laura, that’s Kelly Clarkson, not Chappell Roan! [laughs]
Laura: Yes, because Kelly Clarkson is the first person who ever uttered that phrase.
Andrew: [laughs] But great song. [singing] “What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger…”
Eric: We love you anyway.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: All right, well, enough about Snape and Harry. We’re going to talk about dating your best friend’s sister, a Femininomenon, you could say.
Eric: Also known as his Kink Is Karma.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: He’s earned this.
Andrew: Oh, boy. But first, a quick break. We’ll be right back.
[Ad break]
Andrew: So the chapter actually started with Harry learning that Ginny and Dean are done. Yes, when one door closes, another one opens, and no, I’m not talking about the room of doors in Order of the Phoenix. Not only are Ginny and Dean done, but Ron and Lavender are done as well. So Harry is wondering if he has a shot with Ginny!
Eric: Yeah, and I am just blown away by the extent to which Felix Felicis affected circumstances for Harry, like what you just mentioned, Andrew: The fact that Ginny and Dean broke up and Ron and Lavender broke up can all still be traced back to Harry, when he was under the influence. So I’m just thrilled, because the way in which… well, there’s a lot to like and a lot not to like, right? This is my OTP.
Andrew: Right.
Eric: This is the pairing that I have wanted to see. I feel like it’s earned, but it’s still in the shadows. So during this chapter, there’s these two weeks where Harry and Ginny are getting along really great at Quidditch practice, and Ginny is described as being the life and soul of the team, or the heart and soul of the team, that she’s cracking jokes and everyone’s in good spirits because everyone’s flying so well. And it’s summary; we don’t actually see any of this. It’s said to us, and then it’s moved on, and all of a sudden we’re at Sectumsempra. And it can leave a bad taste, or it can leave you wanting more of, okay, this is your hero of the series, this is the person he is going to marry, and their relationship is just omitted from the books? The times when they actually interact? So it’s crap.
Micah: You know why.
Andrew: Why?
Micah: It’s because of Harry. He likes getting Naked in Manhattan, and Ginny just can’t handle it.
Eric: He’s on a real sugar high, and he appreciates The Subway.
Andrew: That’s true. In Equus, Dan Radcliffe did do that Naked in Manhattan. Thank you to one of our Patreons for that joke.
Eric: It’s very Casual. It’s still going on. I just have a single Google page pulled up on Chappell Roan. [laughs]
Micah: Anyway, I’m sorry. You were making a great…
Eric: But yeah, so I think that we deserve better in terms of understanding where the hero came from. And as a reminder, this came up a few weeks ago – I really appreciated, Andrew, when you mentioned this – but the last time we were reading this book, I was so inspired, or let’s say aggravated, that we don’t get more Harry/Ginny, that I deigned to write a fanfiction where it kind of fleshes that out. And I’m here to announce…
[Andrew gasps]
Eric: … that pen and paper are something of a third tier priority for me right now, but I am going to be finishing “Several Sunlit Days,” my Harry/Ginny fanfiction. I’m actually back in the saddle of writing it.
Andrew: Well, that’s exciting.
Eric: I’m looking really forward to wrapping that up. I know, Andrew, it’s old hat, a MuggleCaster writing a fanfiction, but…
Andrew: Yeah, yeah. Some of us are already published authors in the fanfiction world. One copy, but better than nothing.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Eric: That counts.
Laura: Hey, it still counts.
Andrew: I know. I’m so proud. And the audiobook version, exclusively available to patrons too; don’t forget about that, patrons. So Harry wants to make his move on Ginny, and is even considering some help from his new best bud, Felix. But he’s concerned about what Ron would think. This is his best friend’s sister! And part of his hesitation stems from seeing how Ron reacted to seeing Dean and Ginny kissing, so he fears that Ron is going to have the same type of reaction. So I wanted to talk about this concept. How do we personally feel about dating a friend’s sister? Because I’ll tell you, I’ve gotten comments from some of my friends over the years about dating my sister.
Micah: Why are you looking at me?
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: No, Micah, he’s just looking into his camera. You feeling guilty, bro?
Micah: Not at all.
Andrew: Yeah, now I’m looking at you, Micah. And I didn’t like it! It felt uncomfortable. And I think one of the biggest reasons not to do this is what if you break up? Or what if the friends have a friendship breakup? Things are going to be awkward after that.
Laura: I mean, I guess treat your friend’s sister right, so that your friend doesn’t have a reason to hate you? I don’t know.
Andrew: Well, yeah, whether or not it works out.
Laura: And hopefully she treats you right too so that he doesn’t have a reason to hate her, right? I don’t know. I think that should just be left up to the people who are doing the dating, right? And they should, I think, ideally leave the sibling out of it, because it’s awkward for the sibling. I mean, I know it’s been well documented on this show, Andrew, that at least one host was trying to hit on your sister 20 years ago. [laughs]
Andrew: Yeah, yeah. It’s uncomfortable. I don’t know. And personally, just like, could I date my friend’s brother or sister? I’m just thinking about… I don’t want to… yeah, it’s weird. To me. But yes, I guess the people who are considering it should just deal with it themselves.
Micah: But Harry is like family, though. I mean, it’s very Game of Thrones, in a way.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: I was going to say, doesn’t that make it weirder?
Eric: I think what I’ll say is it feels very small town. If you think about how many wizards there are at Hogwarts, that’s already a smaller number than there are people, and if you think about how many people interact… even in the summer months, Ginny is the only girl that’s around, and is the only girl that Harry has spent any quality time with, playing Quidditch at the Burrow. And so it’s just… it kind of makes sense. No other romantic interest, not even Cho, gets the level of character development that Ginny gets. And we’ve complained all the time about how Ginny is not well developed and is kind of in the background, so imagine what that must be like for literally anybody. There’s nobody else that it could ever have been, realistically, based on the setup that these potential, I don’t know, suitors or romantic interests for Harry are given on page. I guess with the exception of Hermione, if you ship that. But I think it’s never been clearer than in this chapter that Harry and Hermione are not ever going to be on the same page about stuff like this. Just again further needling about the Sectumsempra moment, and I’m just like, “Yeah, they’re not romantically compatible.” So Ginny is what we’ve got.
Micah: The one thing I’ll say is that, looking back on it, this relationship has always seemed to be a bit forced. And the reason why I say that is because usually, as a reader, you’re looking for the payoff, and I think this is what you were alluding to a little bit, Eric, is that you don’t get that with them, because it’s not been building. There might be these little breadcrumbs that were there that you could point to that say, “Oh, the two of them are interested in each other,” but it’s not like it’s been building for five and a half books.
Eric: Right.
Micah: Ron and Hermione have been building since very early on. And this particular moment where Harry comes into the common room and then immediately starts making out with Ginny is very reminiscent from earlier in the book with Ron and Lavender…
Eric: Oh.
Micah: … and it just seems like these are post-Quidditch hormones flying around, and this is the result of that.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: But clearly there’s more here than meets the eye, but I think for a lot of readers… and again, this is not a book about teenage romance, so I think that’s also worth saying too, because it’s not a central theme of the Harry Potter series.
Eric: Well, but when we were reading this book for the first time, I think we came away going, “All these hormones! All these crazy romance…” This is the romance book.
Micah: Yeah, but at the end of the day, I don’t think it’s a story about whether or not this person ends up with that person, or that person ends up with that person.
Eric: Yeah, I don’t think the author was interested in writing about Harry’s relationship with Ginny growing, even though it’s something that brings Harry, the main character, joy, and readers would certainly want to see more or know more about this character in Ginny. But I’m thinking through the years, even when Harry has interacted with Ginny… they both were at the Ministry; they’re in separate rooms. They’re in separate teams, even. So we really don’t get this opportunity to get to know Ginny, which is what I’m providing. And that fanfic, by the way – again, “Several Sunlit Days” – is going to be available on AO3.
Laura: Okay. Archive of Our Own, very nice. I was going to say I think this is an opportunity for the TV show.
Andrew: Oh, yeah.
Laura: I think they could flesh out Ginny’s character so much more than what we got in the books and definitely in the movies.
[“Max that” sound effect plays]
Andrew: That’s a great point.
Eric: Even just by doing what’s in the books, right? The life and soul of the party at Quidditch matches? Give us a few Quidditch practices. You can speckle other plot stuff in there, but actually have her be as funny as she is so that it justifies Harry’s interest in her.
Micah: I think just the last piece I’ll say is that Ginny was the means for Harry to officially become part of the Weasley family.
Andrew: Aww.
Micah: And to me, that’s all that that relationship was about. Because Harry needed a family at the end of the story, and this provided him with one. And he’s always been a surrogate member of the Weasleys. That might come across, I guess, as a little bit harsh, but…
Laura: No, but I think it’s fair to be critical of the writing, because I tend to agree. Not that I don’t think a Harry/Ginny romance is impossible or anything; it’s just we didn’t get enough of that buildup that you were talking about in the books, where it was patently obvious where we were going, until this book when we started getting the Ginny hints laid on pretty thick. And granted, Harry is a stupid teenage boy, so you could make the argument that it was just taking him longer to become cognizant of what was going on between he and Ginny. I mean, certainly four years too late, because she would have been all about dating him in their second year, which is another nice thread to connect here between Book 6 and Book 2, that she was the one pining after him; now he’s the one pining after her.
Andrew: Aww. Well, we’ve been discussing this relationship not exactly being built out, but there was a cute moment here. When Ginny hears Hermione criticizing Harry for using the Prince’s spell, Ginny comes to his defense, despite knowing that Harry is going to be missing the final Quidditch match, and that right there is love, ladies and gentlemen. It was written in the stars. It was predicted. Were you pleased by this, Eric?
Eric: Yeah, I feel like… well, I feel many things, but I’m happy.
Andrew: Okay.
Lynx Line
Andrew: All right, well, that is the chapter, and now it’s time for the Lynx Line. We talked about the Room of Hidden Things, so I wanted to know what would us and our listeners hide in the Room of Requirement, and why. For me, my old diaries, or even if I kept a physical diary, I would put it in there, because I don’t want anybody reading those.
Eric: Yeah, you need a safe place for it. I would place my old schoolwork in the Room of Requirement. Listen, I have all of my paperwork from grades 3 through 9, or 3 through 12, and frankly, my mom is sick of it taking up space in the closet at her home. And listen, I don’t really want it, but I don’t want to get rid of it, and she’s asked me time and again to get rid of it, and I don’t want to. So if I had a Room of Requirement, it would go in there.
Andrew: Micah, do you have anything?
Micah: Porn?
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: Yeah, I guess.
Micah: I’m just being real.
Andrew: There’s incognito mode in Chrome and in Safari.
Micah: We’re talking about from the ’90s, where you had magazines.
Laura: Oh, physical media.
Andrew: Oh, Playboy.
Micah: Physical media, yeah.
Andrew: You want to hide copies of Playboy. Got it.
Laura: I would hide the Harry/Ginny kiss scene from the Half-Blood Prince movie, because it was really bad. I’m sorry.
Eric: [laughs] No, you know what?
Laura: I want a book accurate scene there for Harry and Ginny. I really want there to be the post-Quidditch scene. I think that’s iconic, there’s a lot of energy there, it feels very in keeping with the characters, and there’s no awkward dialogue after the fact. Let’s just keep it book accurate for the TV show.
Eric: I’m so glad you mentioned that, Laura, because yeah, I meant to mention this a minute ago, but Ginny has so much characterization just in this moment where she defends Harry to Hermione, and what she says is, “Hermione, you should be grateful that Harry got Draco back with something good.” She calls it “good,” what Harry did, even though neither Harry nor Hermione would characterize it that way, and even Ginny wouldn’t. But Ginny has a vindictive streak, kind of, because she sees that Harry was fighting for his life with Draco, potentially, and that the stakes were high, and it justified it. You can sense, based on what Ginny says, that that’s her opinion. And so yeah, none of that’s in the movie, and that scene deserves to be buried in an old cabinet somewhere beneath the tiara.
Andrew: [laughs] All right, well, let’s hear what our Patreons had to say. Eleanor said she would hide herself!
“This may be a reflection of my first week back at work after a lovely holiday, but I would put myself in the Room of Requirement so that people cannot put meetings in my diary or call me with daft questions, and then maybe I’ll have a chance of getting through my to-do list!”
Relatable.
Eric and Laura: Yeah.
Eric: Well, Karen says,
“Can I have my packages delivered to the Room of Requirement for me to retrieve later? I order a lot online and would like to have the buffer so that my husband doesn’t always see them, lol.”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: You know, we got a comment once. “I appreciate that you guys have an annual subscription on your Patreon, because it’s easier to hide from my husband on the bank statements.”
[Andrew and Micah laugh]
Eric: I remember that comment. I think we isolated it and read it aloud. It’s on shirts, actually, if you go to MuggleCastMerch.com. It’s the old comment.
Micah: Catherine said,
“I would hide my makeup and nail polish there so my 4-year-old and 2-year-old daughters wouldn’t keep stealing it. They’re like little makeup gremlins.”
Eric: Aw, it’s fun.
Laura: It’s only going to get worse, Catherine, I’m sorry to report. [laughs] Glo says,
“Me, while practicing my trombone. It’s a big and loud instrument. Practicing in small spaces affects my tone in a bad way, so a big empty hall to practice in with no distractions and also not having to worry about who’s listening while I work out my mistakes would be great!”
Eric: Oh, I love that, because you would have to pay so much money for a symphony hall, to rent an hour of time to rehearse in a proper theater, but the cathedral… you could just get that with the Room of Requirement.
Laura: Right.
Eric: I love it.
Andrew: Jess said,
“I’d use it as a storage room as we are running out of space! But only until I could master the Undetectable Extension Charm in my own home.”
Eric: Yeah, everyone wants their home to be bigger on the inside. Matthew says,
“I took a number of woodworking classes over the years. My closet currently contains a three-legged folding table (in two pieces), a desk (four pieces), a bench (one piece), and nested serving trays (meant to be two pieces, but I messed up so there’s only one). None of them are finished (in both senses of the word). They never will be. Maybe the room could work on them for a while.”
Andrew: Probably, or you can get Dobby to finish them up. Dobby the carpenter.
Eric: This reminds me of Deek in Hogwarts Legacy, who’s always overseeing your Room of Requirement stuff.
Laura: Oh, yeah.
Micah: I like Deek.
Eric: Deek is great.
Micah: Rachel says,
“When I was a kid I’d sneak candy or snacks into my room and then had to sneakily dispose of the wrappers. If the Room of Requirement were an option, I’d totally stash them there! Now I’d probably use it to hide gifts, or my journals so no one could take a peek.”
Laura: And finally, Carlee says,
“Definitely myself. I love my kids, my husband, and my students, but sometimes I just need time to myself!”
I think we can all relate, Carlee.
Andrew: Indeed. So patrons, don’t forget that coming up in bonus MuggleCast this week, we’re going to be talking about the end of MuggleNet, and I think it’s going to get a little gossipy, so tune in. And listeners, if you have any feedback about today’s discussion, you can email or send a voice memo to MuggleCast@gmail.com. You can also reach out via Spotify or YouTube, or DM us on social. And next week, we’ll discuss Chapter 25 of Half-Blood Prince, “The Seer Overheard.”
Micah: Oooh.
Andrew: Don’t forget to visit MuggleCast…
Micah: I was waiting for your…
Andrew: [imitating Trelawney] “The Seer Overheard”!
[Micah laughs]
Andrew: Visit MuggleCast.com for links to our social media, our Patreon, our transcripts, our favorite episodes, and lots more.
Quizzitch
Andrew: And now it’s time for Quizzitch.
[Quizzitch music plays]
Eric: This week’s Quizzitch question, all about the most magically powerful number, seven. On July 7, 2007, the new seven wonders of the modern world were unveiled by the New Seven Wonders Committee in Switzerland, with input from around the world. And of the new seven wonders of the modern world, we asked, which one is the most modern? The new seven wonders of the world, for reference, are Petra in Jordan, the city, the Colosseum in Italy, Chichén Itzá in Mexico, the Great Wall of China in, you guessed it, China, Machu Picchu in Peru, the Taj Mahal in India, and the most recent, Christ the Redeemer, the statue in Brazil. And Christ the Redeemer, which is the correct answer, is less than 100 years old; it’s from 1931. So 33% of people with the correct answer say they didn’t look it up. And I’ve got to tell you, everybody, Eden the Muggle-born established 2012 is schooling everyone.
Andrew: Wow.
Eric: She’s the only person who got the correct answer and said they didn’t look it up, and the only other two correct winners… I think people are still jet lagged from the time we did two Quizzitch answers in one, so there were only three entries that were correct. The other two winners are Voldetort and Daniel. Here’s next week’s Quizzitch question: In this chapter, Gryffindor has to succeed over Ravenclaw by at least 300 points, which they do thanks to Ginny. In US college football, a record-holding October 1916 match ended in Georgia Tech scoring 222 to 0 over their opponent. The question is, who was that match against in college football? This happened over a hundred years ago. Micah, do you know the answer to this famous game?
Micah: I might.
Eric: Okay.
Micah: But I’m not allowed to say, right?
Eric: Right.
Andrew: Next week.
Eric: You should consider submitting your answer to the MuggleNet… [laughs] the MuggleCast Quizzitch form on the MuggleCast website.
Micah: Don’t go to MuggleNet.
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: No, you can’t get anything on MuggleNet right now because it’s all shut down and taken away. It’s only bullshit on there now. So anyway, the MuggleCast Quizzitch form is located on the MuggleCast website, MuggleCast.com/Quizzitch. And if you’re already on the website, checking out transcripts or some of those other fun places Andrew mentioned, just click on “Quizzitch” from the main nav bar.
Andrew: Thanks, everyone, for listening. I’m Andrew.
Eric: I’m Eric.
Micah: I’m Micah.
Laura: And I’m Laura.
Andrew: We’ll see you next week. Bye.
Eric, Laura, and Micah: Bye.