Transcript #85

MuggleCast 85 Transcript

Show Intro

[Audio]: What’s up MuggleCast listeners? If you want to make an impact online, has what you need. Get your own dot-com domain name for as low as $1.99. Plus world class hosting, fast and easy website builders and much more. Plus as a listener of MuggleCast, enter code Muggle, that’s M-U-G-G-L-E, when you check out and save an additional 10 percent on any order. Some restrictions apply, see site for details. Get your piece of the internet at

Andrew: This week’s MuggleCast is also brought to you by Borders. Prepare for the upcoming release of Book 7 by catching a glimpse of where it all began. During the month of April, you can purchase Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone on DVD for only $14.99 at Borders. Also be sure to reserve Book 7 at Borders at 40 percent off and get a free sticker. Choose from “Trust Snape” or “Snape is a very bad man.”

[Intro music begins to play]

Andrew: Because some people quit listening to our show because of what we said about what happens in Book 7, this is MuggleCast Episode 85 for April 8, 2007.

[Intro music continues to play]

Andrew: Got a few e-mails here this week I thought we could read to kick off the show. First one comes from Donna, 36, of Missouri. She writes:

I cannot believe you have ruined MuggleCast for me. I will no longer be able to listen until after the seventh book comes out. You were making the wait until then bearable because I had you guys every week giving me something to think about before the next book comes out. Now that you guys have read it, I will be afraid to listen just in case you let slip with a big spoiler and ruin the book for me. I guess I will have to start listening to the “other” Harry Potter podcast even though I never enjoyed it as much. I wish you the best. Loved your podcast.

Donna wasn’t too happy, guys, about our little review of the book.

Laura: And you know what I found funny about it is that so many people thought it was an April Fools joke…

Andrew: Yeah, that’s what gets me.

Laura: …and I guess now would be a really bad time for us to tell Donna that it wasn’t.

Andrew: Yeah. I mean that’s what gets me, Laura. That’s what gets me. Another e-mail from Stella Rooney, 8-years-old from Glasgow, UK. She writes – her subject is April Foul:

Dear MuggleCasters, what a nice little joke about the manuscript. Not! How could you do something like that? I’m sure I’m not speaking for myself when I say that there are people out there that took that seriously and didn’t think about it when it was released. It really was an April Foul. I’m lucky that my mum pointed out to me that if it was for real, it would be all over the newspapers. You didn’t think about that, did you?

Again, not sure why it didn’t make it to the press, but it was real.

Mikey: Yeah.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: Everyone got it, right? Everyone can say that they got the book, right?

Kevin: Yep.

Mikey: Yeah I just got mine the other day.

Laura: Yeah.

Mikey: So I just finished reading it.

Andrew: Oh Mikey how did you enjoy it, by the way?

Mikey: Oh it’s wonderful.

Andrew: Yeah?

Mikey: Yeah I was a little surprised. I was left out but I got it finally, so I’m happy.

Andrew: Yeah, well, sorry about that. I mean, this US mail. You try to do like the confirmation sending, where they swear it’s going to be there by a certain day and then, you know, it doesn’t show up.

Mikey: It’s alright.

Micah: Well I mean there’s no guarantee that the post person wouldn’t want to read it themselves. I mean, come on.

Andrew: That’s true, that’s true. I forgot to wrap it up so they didn’t know what it was inside. Anyway, welcome everybody to the show, and we got some more cover coverage to talk about this week. But before we do anything else, I’m Andrew Sims.

Kevin: I’m Kevin Steck.

Laura: I’m Laura Thompson.

Micah: I’m Micah Tannenbaum.

Mikey: And I’m Mikey Bouchereau.

[Intro music continues to play]


Andrew: Micah Tannenbaum is standing by in the MuggleCast news center with the past week’s top Harry Potter news stories. Micah?

Micah: Thanks, Andrew.

The US Potter publisher, Scholastic, has introduced unbending rules for libraries handling Deathly Hallows this summer. According to the contract which Scholastic is having the libraries sign, the number of employees handling the novel must be limited. Oh, time to put in my application to work in the library.

Furthermore, those libraries that breach the contract could be blacklisted from future book releases. Well guys, I mean, this is your last shot. This is the last Harry Potter book, so who cares about any releases after this? The contract states that “We acknowledge and agree that any such violation will cause irreparable harm to Scholastic and the author, J.K. Rowling, and that monetary damages will be inadequate to compensate for violations.”

Last Saturday, the Harry Potter series won in the category of “Favorite Book” at the 20th Anniversary of the Nickelodeon Kids’ Choice Awards. Always a favorite at this slime-filled ceremony, Harry has also won in the category of “Favorite Movie” in past years. The series beat out How to Eat Fried Worms, Island of the Blue Dolphins and Lemony Snicket’s A Series of Unfortunate Events.

Bloomsbury has updated their “21 Great Reads for the 21st Century” with news that over the next year, “two or three authors will be featured each month, giving details of their careers, forthcoming books and events and suggestions of similar Bloomsbury authors you might be interested in.” We’re unsure as to whether JK Rowling will be featured but we will keep you updated.

Dan Radcliffe, the Harry Potter actor, previously recorded a video to raise awareness and funds for children in extreme poverty in America and Africa. This video, along with those of Helena Bonham Carter, who plays Bellatrix Lestrange, and a number of other celebrities, will be broadcast on “American Idol Gives Back,” April 25th.

Finally, a new report states that Harry Potter is the most searched fan fiction on Yahoo!.

That’s all the news for this April 8th, 2007, edition of MuggleCast. Back to the show.

Andrew: Okay, thank you Micah.

Micah: Yo, yo.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Is that your new thing now?

Mikey: What’s up Micah?

Andrew: Yeah what’s up, yo?

Mikey: Yo what’s up, G?

Andrew: You want to do your own rap, Micah, for the show?

Laura: Mhm.

Micah: Yeah. Yeah, why not? The news rap.

Andrew: Yeah, yeah, there you go. We have a…

Micah: Don’t sound so excited about that. Really.


Andrew: Well, you know. We have a couple of announcements this week. Of course, a big one for the show: we have changed our cover art and we have a brand new website over at Does everyone like it?

Kevin: I think it’s awesome, yeah.

Mikey: It’s awesome, yeah. I like it.

Micah: I like it.

Laura: I love it.

Andrew: Yeah I’m really happy with how it turned out. Basically, I want to talk about a few things here, but the website was made by Greg Porter. He’s been on the show a couple of times, of He does fantastic website designs, so head over to his website today and you can use the code ‘MCMUGGLE’ to get a special discount on your design created by Greg. We highly recommend him. He made that website in a day, guys, and coded it for us. He did a fantastic job.

Mikey: Wow.

Laura: Wow.

Andrew: Yeah, and of course we have the new album art, if you haven’t checked the Myspace, or the Facebook, or anywhere else lately. But the reason we did this change – and I don’t want to get sentimental – but the reason we did this change is because, really, it’s a new era of MuggleCast where all we are talking about now is the seventh and final Harry Potter book and that’s what we’re focused on now, so it only makes sense to change over our visual. Our one and only visual for the show, which is the cover art and the website. S,o I guess that’s two, but I know what most of you are asking right now. [mimicking]‘Why do you guys do this just like the other Harry Potter podcast?! You guys ripped them off!’ Two things about that: one, last time I checked…

Micah: [Makes buzzer sound] Wrong.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Andrew: Last time I checked…

Mikey: We have a black iPod.

Andrew: Yeah. [laughs]

[Everyone laughs]

Mikey: We got the black iPod! I like that, we got a black one!

Andrew: Yeah, yeah. My favorite part of this new album art is that we still have the MuggleCast album art, the old one- the Half-Blood Prince one-inside the iPod. But anyway, first of all, we’ve said publicly on this show multiple times that we were going to be probably switching over to the new cover as our album art, once it came out. Second of all, we can’t hear any complaints about people saying, ‘Oh, you guys copied the other Harry Potter podcast.’ When in fact we were doing the whole book-cover-as-the-album-art thing with an iPod on it for, what, a-year-and-a-half now? So whatever. But we hope everyone does enjoy it a lot and we know we do. So that’s that.

Also, bad news about the suitcase video, I’m not going to make a big deal about this. Long story short, I can’t bring it into school. There’s all this nonsense going on about filming in school. That doesn’t involve MuggleCast itself, but doing it in school. So, I do apologize for that. The winners are going to be getting the pieces of the suitcase. Maybe I’ll take some pictures of the destroyed suitcase. It is still sitting here in my room and the dead body in there is still rotting, so I do want to get rid of it as soon as possible.

Also, don’t forget to vote for us on Podcast Alley. We thank everyone for their vote, and don’t forget me, Micah…

Micah: Yo.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Ben and Jamie will be at Enlightening 2007 in Philadelphia, PA, at the University of Penn., from July 12th to the 15th. We’re going to be going to the movie premiere, hosting a podcast and we are also going to be doing a seminar on how to make your own podcast. We’re going to teach you all the ropes. We have an update on the live podcast. It’s going to be in the Irvine… Irvin, or Irvine Auditorium. Over 800 seats, a beauuuuuuutiful theater to host the podcast in, so we are really looking forward to that and more details could be found on

Kevin and Mikey’s Thoughts on the Covers

Andrew: So, we are going to get right into our main discussion this week. Guys? I want to start off with Kevin and Mikey’s thoughts. Kevin, do you want to go first? Your general thoughts about the cover? So we can kick off our session…

Kevin: Well, I’ve heard a lot of people don’t like it because it seemed too colorful but I like it. I think it’s a little…

Andrew: You’re talking about the UK cover, children’s edition?

Kevin: Yeah. I like it. I think it’s unique.

Andrew: What was your initial thought about the US cover?

Kevin: Well I was very interested to see the little silhouettes in the background. That along with Harry and Voldemort grasping out towards something. I think I said it to – or Micah brought it up to me- it looks almost like they are trying to cast wandless magic, which I think is pretty cool.

Andrew: Yeah. We brought it up on the show that on, I think it was at least four of the covers, Harry is holding his wand, along with at least one, or two other people. And in this case neither Harry nor Voldemort are holding their wands…

Kevin: Yeah. Not too mention it’s the first time we actually saw
Voldemort illustrated.

Andrew: Yeah, that’s true. I really think it only makes sense that he only shows up on the final cover…

Kevin: The final cover, yeah.

Andrew: Because it’s sort of like – granted, though it’s not on the front cover- he’s on the back cover. Nonetheless, though, it’s still very cool. How about the UK adult edition with R.A.B.’s locket?

Kevin: I think that’s really interesting because it showed up in – or at least we think it’s in the children’s edition in the US version around Harry’s neck…

Andrew: Yeah.

Kevin: I’m very surprised they’re giving so much focus to it.

Andrew: Yeah. Well, I mean we were talking about the fact that last time it was it was Snape’s diary right there on the cover and now it’s the locket. So, it’s like, is that going to play a semi-important role? Or is it going to be a huge role or what…

Kevin: Well, what I was thinking was maybe perhaps it’s the last Horcrux to be found and that’s why they’re giving so much, you know, attention to it.

Andrew: Well, are we all in agreement that the locket is a very crucial Horcrux for one reason or another?

Kevin: Yeah, absolutely…

Laura: Yeah, definitely.

Mikey: Yeah, definitely. It has to be…

Laura: It wouldn’t be featured on the cover if it wasn’t.

Kevin: And I think it is because of the fact that it’s now potentially hidden beyond where it was hidden originally. So, it’s not like the other Horcruxes which could be found in their original spots. This has, you know, been moved.

Mikey: Well, I also think that it has so much more meaning because it’s been alluded to so many times…

Kevin: Yeah, that’s true…

Mikey: We think we see it in Order of the Phoenix. We saw it, or we thought we could have seen it in Half-Blood Prince, and now it’s – like you said, it could be moved, we might find out more about R.A.B. – we will – but it’s all these different things surrounding that locket. So…

Micah: But now I mean, are we under the impression that it’s not destroyed? Because…

Andrew: No, it can’t be…

Micah: …based on the note I thought R.A.B. destroyed it, or did he just take it?

Kevin: I think everyone…

Mikey: Or we hoped he destroyed it.

Kevin: Right. And I think everyone thinks that it’s the locket that it showed in Grimmauld Place. So…

Andrew: Right. So Mikey, what are your general thoughts on the covers. Are you happy with them?

Mikey: Yeah, I like the US edition. The children’s UK edition kind of freaks me out a little. It looks weird. It’s got a lot of information on there, but I’m not too found of the artwork. It just kind of – maybe too much is going on, I guess? I don’t know…

Andrew: Yeah. I’ve never been found of any of the UK covers.

Mikey: Yeah.

Andrew: This one, honestly, I would have to say that this one is my favorite just because of how much detail is in it. I kind of like how colorful it is. I love Hogwarts on the back. If that is Hogwarts, which…

Mikey: I know. It’s a different color. It’s got some really cool stuff. What’s with Prongs on the right-hand side and the snake globe on the left?

Andrew: I don’t – I… [laughs]

Mikey: You know, it just brings up too many questions. And I like simple things, you know, art. Simplistic. I like the US cover. I like the adult cover. It’s nice. Very simple, again. It’s the locket. But I like it, you know?

Andrew: Yeah.

Mikey: I had some inside information when it was coming out. So, I woke up to see it right when it was released.

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Andrew: Mikey, you’re just…

[Micah laughs]

Mikey: I was up at four in the morning. [laughs]

Andrew: You’re just on top of the ball, man.

Mikey: Yeah, what can I say?

Mysterious Symbol

Andrew: I wonder – do you know anything about what that little – I don’t even know what to call it. The triangle with the circle inside of it and the line going through the triangle on the UK children’s cover spine. It’s Legend of Zelda-ish. And me and Micah were talking about this earlier this week.

Micah: [laughs] Yeah.

Kevin: Oh, I know what you’re talking about.

Micah: The Triforce of Wisdom.

Andrew: It’s like a Triforce thing.

Mikey: It’s like a Triforce – it’s like the Eye of the Illuminati. You know, where the triangle is above it all and the eye inside of it.

Andrew: Yeah.

Mikey: But I don’t know what it is.

Andrew: I think that has to be – that has nothing to do with Bloomsbury. I don’t think.

Mikey: I don’t.

Micah: No. No. Because I think somebody else brought up a couple of shows ago or something like that. That usually whatever’s in that area, and it may have been you, Andrew, is critical to the book. Is critical to that particular book of the series. Whatever little object shows up there.

Mikey: Oh, you know what? I just Google-searched it and I found it. It’s the equilateral triangle. And that’s what it means. It’s because it’s a perfect circle inside a perfect triangle.

Andrew: Oh. And…

Mikey: That’s what it, you know…

[Kevin laughs]

Mikey: Harmonic ratios of the regular polygons. That’s what I found.

[Kevin laughs]

Mikey: I Google-searched, “circle triangle,” and that’s what popped up.

Andrew: Are there going to be parallel universes in the seventh novel?

Mikey: Actually I just found a religious site relating to this triangle. So give me a second, if I can find it.

Andrew: Oh.

[Kevin laughs]

Laura: Maybe it means they’re doing geometry in this book.

Andrew: [laughs] Yeah.

Micah: Yes.

Mikey: Who knows.

Andrew: Seventh year students need to take geometry classes.

[Laura laughs]

Micah: Well, a couple listeners wrote in with creative ideas that perhaps it’s an ancient rune.

Andrew: Oh, it could relate to runes. Hm.

Micah: We know Hermione likes that subject a lot.

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: Maybe it comes into play. I think somebody even went as far to go to J.K. Rowling’s website and into that Ancient Runes book that she has.

Andrew: Mhm.

Micah: And to see if it had any relevance. But, of course, there was nothing there.

Mikey: Oh, you know what? Actually, hold on, I found a religious site. It says, “Circle and triangle combines the symbol for eternity with the symbol for trinity.”

Andrew: What? Eternity?

[Laura laughs]

Mikey: Symbol for eternity with the symbol for trinity. I don’t know if that means, you know, religious trinity or – eternity is circle, you know, that’s cool.

Andrew: Well, you’re looking on a religious site, right? So.

Mikey: No, no. It’s some Greek – hold on, let me see what the name is. Christian Symbols Glossary Forums, Feeds, Religions Forums. So yeah, it is a religious forum.

Micah: Is that by Laura Mallory?

[Laura laughs]

Mikey: I don’t know. But here’s the link, so you guys can take a look yourself. I got it off Google.

Andrew: Well, I’m looking at a definition of “trinity,” and it can also mean, “three people considered as a unit.”

Kevin: Whoa.

Andrew: The trio.

Mikey: Harry, Ron, Hermione.

Andrew: There you go. And the trio happened to be…

Mikey: Eternity. Eternity. Eternity. Those three will be forever together.

Andrew: Nooo.

Laura: In life or death.

Mikey: They will destroy Voldemort!

Andrew: I don’t want to… [laughs]

Mikey: They will destroy Voldemort! They will win! Yeah!

[Andrew and Kevin laugh]

Andrew: Oh, Mikey.

Mikey: Alright!

[Everyone laughs]

Laura: What’s interested about that there, Mikey, is usually when people refer to eternity that means death.

Mikey: But they will…

[Laura laughs]

Mikey: Quiet down! I don’t want them to die, okay?

[Everyone laughs]

Mikey: You’re going to make me cry here. I don’t want to cry. No, I won’t cry. Not on recording. No. I don’t know.

Andrew: So we have the trinity, the trio, in eternity.

Micah: This is groundbreaking stuff right here.

Kevin: This is on the spot.

Andrew: This is just thinking live on the show.

[Mikey laughs]

Andrew: This is called, “We didn’t prep beforehand, so let’s do it on the show.” [laughs]

Mikey: I’m showing my Google searches skills right now.

Andrew: Interesting.

Mikey: As I’m bringing this up.

Andrew: I don’t know. Well, that’s very interesting. If anyone has any thoughts, e-mail them in to mugglecast at staff dot mugglenet dot com. I’m sure we’ve got some people out there who could come up with some interesting theories for that. But I mean, you know, the trio’s on the cover too.

Kevin: Well, we definitely want to see what the other covers have in that location, as well.

Andrew: Well, we can…

Kevin: Because we could link it, somewhere.

Laura: Where exactly – hang on, I’ve got my UK editions. Where exactly is it?

Mikey: It’s at the very top.

Kevin: It’s at the spine at the top.

Laura: There’s nothing on…

Kevin: On any of them?

Laura: There is nothing like that. Like, they have little pictures on the top that continue from the back cover. But there’s no symbol or anything like that.

Andrew: Interesting.

Laura: Like on the Goblet of Fire one…

Mikey: Laura, are you going to make me look online?

Laura: It’s just like a little owl at the top of it.

Andrew: Oh, you know what? Yeah, I think I remember seeing that owl on the books before. But…

Mikey: I don’t know, maybe I have.

Andrew: Yeah, there’s so much more information on those UK books. You got Prongs. And you got that, like, prophecy thing with the snake in it. And then the back cover’s pretty – I love the back cover.

Mikey: I love Hogwarts.

Micah: Yeah.

Kevin: Yeah, definitely. Especially the full moon.

Andrew: It’s definitely moon-lit.

Kevin: Yeah.

Mikey: Hey, what’s the Bloomsbury logo? Is it a dog?

Laura: It’s a dog.

Andrew: It’s a dog.

Mikey: Or is it something else?

Andrew: Yeah.

Kevin: No, it’s a triangle with a circle in the middle.

Mikey: I love how it’s a black dog.

[Kevin and Laura laugh]

Mikey: Well no, because you know what? That black dog reminds me of Sirius. I’m just saying. [laughs]

Andrew: Oh, yeah. [laughs]

Mikey: [laughs] I’m sorry. I’m screeching at limbs here.

[Andrew laughs]

Mikey: But, I’m trying to make myself sound a little bit better, but yeah. Alright.

Hogwarts Description Debate

Laura: You know what’s interesting? You know how last week we were kind of debating about whether the castle on the back of the Deathly Hallows UK Edition is Hogwarts? And I’m looking at the Goblet of Fire edition, and it has an inside view of, like one of the staircases and one of the archways. And it doesn’t match. At least in my opinion. Like, the inside of the castle does not match the outside of the castle that we’re seeing on the back of the new cover.

Andrew: Does it say the cover illustrator on the inside flap?

Laura: I’m sure it does.

Andrew: Because on this one, it says Jason Cockcroft.

Laura: This one has a bunch of blurbs on it.

Andrew: Because it’s been a different illustrator for each, you know. I mean, that’s interesting, what you bring up, but…

Laura: It’s a different illustrator?

Andrew: For each book, yeah.

Laura: Are you serious? That’s stupid.

Andrew: That’s what Jamie said, yeah.

Mikey: Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah. So, that’s interesting.

Mikey: But in the US we all got the same illustrator, so it’s cool.

Laura: Yeah, this guy was Gils Greenfield.

Andrew: Hmmmm.

Laura: So, I mean, it could just be lack of continuity.

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: But, it’s so weird. You would think that they would want to, kind of, have them all make sense, but.

Andrew: Yeah. Did we talk about this last week? On the front cover of the UK edition, Harry Potter; it’s white on black. Black sort of representing the end, death. I mean, it’s nothing really big, but…

Laura: I don’t think so.

Andrew: It’s just kind of interesting. Just a little side note there.

Mikey: It’s not that…

Listener Rebuttal: Kreacher

Andrew: Let’s move on to some emails. We’ve been getting lots of emails this week, of course, with everyone sending their theories. We love reading them all. We have a couple here. We are going to start off with one from Matt, he’s 18, of Western Australia. Perth, Western Australia. He writes:

“I just wanted to note to you guys that, although it would be the more likely the situation for Dobby to be on Harry’s back, I believe it’s Kreacher. Why? Because Jo made sure Kreacher was kept in the Order of the Phoenix film, whereas Dobby is long gone. You would expect that the house elf on Harry’s back is, at that moment, playing an important role in the book, and as such couldn’t possibly be Dobby as I take Jo’s insistence to mean that Dobby has no further part to play. Just a theory, I have millions more, but this will do for now. Adios, Matt.”

I like that. That is an interesting point. I mean, Dobby is gone now. He’s not going to be in the fifth film, and if she pushed for Kreacher to be in the film, and I know we’ve heard that there has been argument – that there was actually an argument over whether – not an argument, but there was a discussion to decide whether or not Kreacher would be kept in or not. I think that just says right there that he plays an important role that we haven’t seen yet.

Laura: I mean, I think it’s plausible, but I think we also need to remember that he played a pretty important role in the fifth book. I mean, he’s essentially the reason that everyone went to the Department of Mysteries.

Andrew: Well, that is true.

Kevin: Yeah.

Andrew: That’s actually – that’s a good point.

Laura: And how do you explain that? I mean…

Kevin: Well, I think…

Mikey: Yeah.

Laura: What lame justification could…

Kevin: She – what she…

Laura: …they use, really?

Andrew: Well, trust me. They could come up with…

[Andrew, Laura, and Mikey laugh]

Laura: Well, I mean, I’m saying it would be really bad.

Micah: Well, I was listening to what you guys were saying on Episode 80 because I was working on the transcript for it earlier. I think that…

Andrew:… Actually, not at all. Never mind, go ahead.

Micah: [laughs] No, they can explain away a lot of things if they really, really wanted to. And – but in this case I agree with what Laura is saying. I think that Kreacher in particular was much more important to Book 5. So, his inclusion in the movie is probably a little bit more important than Dobby.

Kevin: Well, don’t you think that she’s just giving them pointers for vital points in the plot that they will have to include in the movie? And not necessarily what’s going to happen in the book? Because Dobby can play a part in, like, Book 5, but they can explain away that particular part that he played. Whereas maybe Kreacher plays such a large part they won’t be able to just simply explain it away. Because these are large books and they have to cut a lot of…

Micah: Yeah.

Kevin: …you know, stuff from it. And maybe her saying that is just…

Laura: Yeah.

Kevin: …her saying that Kreacher is going to play a role that you can’t cut out from the movie. Not saying that Dobby doesn’t play a role in the book, it is just that…

Micah; Yeah, but I think that at the same time…

Kevin: ….Dobby’s part in the book could be, you know, swept to the side whereas Kreacher’s couldn’t.

Micah: Yeah. No, I agree with that.

Laura: Well, we actually do have a voicemail about what else that thing on Harry’s back could be. So, I mean, we’ll get to that in a few minutes, but.

Micah: Oh, so, basically what you’re saying is…

Kevin: I think we know where it’s going.

Micah: Okay, I won’t say anything.

Laura: Yeah.

Kevin: How about a goblin?

Laura: I don’t want to spoil it or anything.

Kevin: We already – oh okay. Yeah.

Laura: Yeah. [laughs] That would be it. But yeah.

Kevin: Yes. [laughs]

Micah: [laughs] We mention that on a future episode.

Listener Rebuttal: Format of Book 7

Andrew: [laughs] Yeah. Alright, we have another email now. Natalie, 14, of Utah. She writes:

“Hi, MuggleCasters! I was just wondering what you think the format of Deathly Hallows will be in comparison to the other books. In this final book, Jo has things to tie up, not more plot lines to formulate. Do you think that this book will differ from her trademark writing style? Just wanted to hear your comments. Thanks, and love the show.”

I don’t know what the – it’s going to be following the same format, I think. He’s going to start off in the Burrow, we know that much. And…

Mikey: The Burrow? I thought he was going to start of at Number 4, Privet Drive.

Andrew: Well, where does – why did I think that?

Kevin: Yeah, he’s going to. Yeah.

Laura: Well, he will go to the Burrow.

Micah: Because the cover is sort of…

Laura: He will…

Mikey: He will go to the Burrow, but…

Andrew: Oh, sorry. Alright, yeah.

Mikey: [laughs] Just correcting you now, Andrew. Just so you know.

Andrew: I thought the cover said Harry is waiting in the Burrow. Nevermind. This says Privet Drive.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: Carry on.

Laura: I think that Deathly Hallows will definitely stay consistent with the same kind of theme that Books 4 through 6 had. Because if you look at the series, Books 1 through 3 kind of tend to be focused more on the future and learning things about what will happen. But as you got into the Goblet of Fire and moved onward, we saw a lot more memories and diving into pensieves, and, you know, all that kind of stuff. So, I think we are definitely going to learn a lot more about the past in this book as well.

Kevin: Yeah, and 1 through 3 were really used for a lot of character development.

Laura: Yeah, it was a lot of setup.

Kevin: And…

Mikey: Yeah.

Kevin: Yeah. After Book 3 it became – you know, there was character development, but not nearly to the extent that we saw in the first books. So, I agree, I think it’s going to be just like Books 4 through 6.

Mikey: Well, as I reread her email, it says “no more plotlines will be formulated.” I think it is more of the fact there is still going to be new plotlines that we don’t know about, you know. We are going on an adventure…

Andrew: Yeah.

Mikey: …that we don’t know anything about. So, it’s not that she is going to just be giving us answers to stuff that we’ve been questioning, but, you know, we still are going to be finding new stuff out. So, I definitely think it’s going to be the same to what we’ve read. Definitely the last few books. Same there.

Andrew: The ending of course is going to probably like nothing we’ve ever seen before. And of course the epilogue. So…

Mikey: Yeah.

Listener Rebuttal: Final Battle at the Graveyard

Andrew: Then we have another email from Mike, 15 of St. Louis. He says:

“Hey, guys. I remember J.K. Rowling saying that we would see the Hogwarts graveyard before the series is over. To me, the US cover seems to be set outside and all of the dark shadows that look like people are also in the shape of gravestones. This leads me to believe that this may be the scene of a battle; final, is my guess since he is wearing the locket. This could make for some interesting happenings since Dumbledore is buried there. Okay, that’s all. Keep up the good work.”

I don’t – it doesn’t really look like a graveyard to me.

Kevin: No.

Andrew: Does it to you guys?

Kevin: Not really.

Laura: No, it doesn’t look like a graveyard to me – at all.

Mikey: It looks like the Coliseum.

Kevin: That’s what everyone…

Mikey: A stadium.

Kevin: Yeah, the Coliseum.

Laura: Yeah, it really does.

Mikey: Not the Coliseum. It actually looks like – someone actually hunted and told me the exact place that it looks like and showed me comparison pictures.

Kevin: Oh, geez.

Mikey: I said, “That’s cool.” But I don’t remember.

[Andrew laughs]

Mikey: But I give props to that person, whoever you were. I don’t even remember who it was.

[Keivn laughs]

Mikey: But, yeah. Not the Coliseum, somewhere else.

Micah: Didn’t somebody confirm that they weren’t graves?

Laura: I don’t know.

Mikey: I don’t know.

Andrew: Even so…

Micah: I thought I read an e-mail that…

Laura: Something that I find kind of interesting – and this is kind of what Mike was addressing – if the final battle takes place at a graveyard or at Hogwarts or anywhere like that, that would mean that the final showdown would be at Hogwarts, and this is something that I’ve always been kind of firmly against. Like, I’ve always thought that it would never happen at Hogwarts, because so much has already happened there, and I feel like if Harry’s going on a journey, it’s going to end somewhere different then where it began, and I don’t think it will be at Hogwarts. Do you guys think it will be? Do you think this is Hogwarts, or what?

Andrew: I think this is through the veil in the Ministry of Magic.

Mikey: That’s what I think. I agree with Andrew.

Laura: I think that, too!

Andrew: [laughs] That’s what I’m hoping for.

Laura: But somebody pointed out something very interesting, and this really crushed my theory and it made me really upset: the death chamber that the veil’s located in is rectangular-shaped, this room is circular.

Andrew: Well, who says this has to be the death chamber?

Laura: But that’s where the veil is. [laughs]

Andrew: But what if – it, it could be something…

Laura: What if it turned circular? Like, the other side is circular?

Mikey: What if we’re in the locked door?

Laura: Oh, interesting…interesting moment.

Mikey: The love room.

Kevin: Yeah.

Mikey: The love room. What if we’re in there, you know?! Guys, who knows?

Andrew: That does not look like a love room.

[Laura laughs]

Mikey: I don’t know, man. It’s nice and orange. Can you – I can imagine some hearts in there, maybe.

Andrew: That’s the sky!

[Kevin laughs]

Mikey: Quiet!

Andrew: See, I mean. Then you can say it is the death chamber, or it is the love room, but there’s a sky right above us. That’s, like, the biggest clue! Maybe we’re over-thinking this.

Laura: It’s a window in the sky.

Andrew: It is a window in the sky.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: And to love, Harry’s rhapsodize – ing.

Mikey: I remember another room. Something like the Great Hall, it’s magically enhanced to see…

Andrew: No way.

Laura: No!

Mikey: Who knows? Who knows? Oh man!

Laura: What’s interesting about this, though, – we were talking about the circle meaning eternity, and if Harry is on the other side of the veil where death is, and that room is circular, it’s just kind of a cool connection to eternity.

Andrew: Oh, yeah, yeah.

Mikey: Ahhh.

Andrew: But I don’t think it looks circular. I think it looks more oval.

Laura: Oblong.

Mikey: Actually, I found an e-mail for where that was sent to me: someone said it looks like the Istanbul Amphitheatre, and actually, as I’m looking at it…

Andrew: What is that?

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Mikey: It’s an amphitheatre where we’re looking at it like it’s a stage. That’s why there’s curtains and everything. It’s round like that, and there’s even seating and people sitting there and everything.

Laura: so Harry’s going to go from Istanbul to Constantinople, right, Mikey?

Mikey: Why not?

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Micah: [sarcastically] Oh, Laura. You’re so funny.

Andrew: It doesn’t look to me, though, that…

Mikey: High five, Laura. I like that joke.

Micah: What do you guys think about it being Hogwarts? I mean, it’s not that crazy of an idea. You look around the rubble. It’s a stone rubble, there’s wood rubble there too, which could be the front door of the school. Is that such a far-fetched idea?

Laura: It’s not…

Andrew: Yeah, but look at the coliseum thing. What would that be?

Micah: So maybe that’s the remnants of the school?

Andrew: No way!

Mikey: Oooh!

Andrew: No way! I mean, unless this thing is going to be built in the seventh book, I don’t think there is any way that this is Hogwarts.

Mikey: Really? There’s Hogwarts on the other cover, too.

Andrew: There is, but on the back cover. It’s just an exterior shot. I mean, that illustrator could have been thinking, “Hmmm. What could I put on the back cover? Hogwarts would be cool. Moonlit.”

[Laura and Kevin laugh]

Andrew: I don’t know. That’s a stretch, but…

Mikey: I’m sure that’s exactly what he was thinking.

[Everyone laughs]

Micah: They had to get the right side of Hogwarts.

Andrew; Yeah…

Mikey: Because the other side is all rubble. It looks just like the US cover.

Micah: Exactly.

Andrew: Is it just me, or – enough mocking me.

Laura: I just – I just feel like…

Mikey: It’s alright, Simsy.

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: … the hunt for the Horcruxes is going to end with the location of the final battle, and it just seems so implausible to me that Harry would go off looking, and he would find the last one at Hogwarts, and then end up having a showdown with Voldemort.

Mikey: Well, the last one’s Nagini, so we’re going to – he’s going to go hunt Voldemort eventually. I don’t think the last Horcrux that’s not the snake is going to be there. I don’t know.

Micah: I’m going to take this completely off-topic now. You know that little ball that Nagini is in? What if Harry catches him in a Pokéball?

[Everyone laughs]

Laura: Oh my god.

Mikey: I choose you, Nagini! That’s actually pretty awesome.

Andrew: That’s it. There it is.

Mikey: That’s it. And then Fawkes is going to come by and eat him.

Micah: [laughs] What?

Laura: You know what someone pointed out? I don’t know if you guys talked about this on a future show…

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: … but somebody pointed out that that little sphere thing looks a lot like the way the prophecy spheres were described in Order of the Phoenix. What if Harry somehow uses prophecies to his advantage to find the remaining Horcruxes? It almost looks like he captured a snake within that.

Mikey: Hmmm.

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah. But like we were saying last week, there’s that window.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: And its presence makes me think that it’s supposed to be offering some sort of clue.

Micah: What if it’s outside Harry’s window? what if it’s the initial prophecy, and Voldemort is sort of depicted as a snake?

Laura: That’s interesting.

Micah: No?

Andrew: Yeah.

Mikey: I like that, Micah. Well thought out.

Micah: Thanks. Almost as good as the Pokéball.

[Everyone laughs]

Mikey: I don’t know. That Pokéball is just amazing.

What’s With Voldemort’s Hand?

Andrew: Looking at the US cover again, and maybe you guys have given this some thought, but Voldemort’s right hand – if you’re holding out your hand like that, you can’t physically hold your hand out like that unless your arm is twisted all the way around. So, I’m not saying that’s a hint for the book, but see how his thumb is on our right?

Micah: Wrong side? [laughs]

Andrew: Exactly. It’s on the wrong side.

Laura: Okay, everybody hold out your arms and see… [laughs]

Andrew: That’s what I’m – I’m doing it.

Mikey: That’s what I did.

[Kevin sighs]

Andrew: His forehand is facing us.

Laura: So, wait, are his palms facing us, both of them?

Andrew: His palms are facing us. Right.

Laura: Well, no, you can do that.

Mikey: Andrew?

Andrew: If you can twist your arm all the way around.

Laura: I’m not doing…

Mikey: Andrew, Andrew, Andrew. This is what you’re going to do. Put your arm out in front of you.

Andrew: Yeah?

Mikey: And point your thumb…

Andrew: Yeah?

Mikey: … away from you and your thumb and your hand is now turned…

[Laura laughs]

Mikey: …and the perspective of the reader your thumb is on the other side. And I’m doing it right now. [laughs]

Andrew: I don’t think you understand what I’m saying, though.

Mikey: I see what you’re saying, man. It’s not that difficult to do.

Kevin: No, it isn’t.

Andrew: But does anyone hold their hand out like that?

Laura: If you are trying to…

Andrew: My arm is aching holding it like this.

Laura: Well, you would – obviously, he’s not holding it like that for a minute. He’s reaching… [laughs]

Andrew: Laura, he’s been holding it like that for the past two weeks.

[Everyone laughs]

Mikey: He’s pushing – he’s using wandless magic to push things away.

Micah: I think what Andrew is trying to say is perhaps that this is a reflection.

Andrew: A reflection? No, no.

Micah: Through the veil.

Andrew: Well, yes, Micah, that’s exactly what I was trying to say. Thank you, Micah.

Micah: Exactly, see.

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: But if you look at it as if it’s a reflection, it would be – you would be holding your arms in the same type of position, just the opposite way, you know what I’m saying?

Micah: No, but it does look weird. It looks weird. If you tried to hold your hand out…

Andrew: Thank you, Micah, thank you.

Micah: … it doesn’t work the same way.

Laura: But here’s the thing, though. When I think of this, I think of somebody trying to catch – like, my brother pays soccer and when I hear you guys talking about this, I think about him leaping to the side to catch balls and the way he throws out his arms that way. And obviously, you don’t hold out your arms like that forever, but if it’s just a quick moment in time captured, of course it’s going to look funny.

Kevin: Well, Laura, soccer is typically played with the feet.

[Everyone laughs]

Laura: When you’re a goalie it’s not, Kevin. [laughs]

Mikey: Well, I like to call it football.

Listener Rebuttal: Hand Position

Andrew: Yeah. To start off that little discussion we have another e-mail: Kathryn T, 16, of New York. She writes:

In Episode 83 you were discussing Harry and Voldemort’s hands on the Book 7 cover and someone stated that both Harry and Voldemort seemed to be reaching out towards something. Although I agree that Harry, based on the position of his hand, is grasping for something in the air above him, the position of Voldemort’s hand seems to suggest that he is either shielding himself or trying to push something away. It makes sense that Harry would be grasping or reaching for something based on the position of his hand. When you reach for something your hand has a slight curve to it and your thumb goes forward, almost as if you were trying to wrap your hand around whatever you are reaching for, and that is exactly what Harry’s hand is doing. Voldemort on the other hand, no pun intended, appears to have his hand more flat than Harry’s, although it might just be the angle.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: I don’t think we ever really talked about this. In general.

Laura: It does look like he’s…

Andrew: On what is going on here.

Laura: It does look like he’s trying to push it away, instead of trying to catch it or trying to keep Harry from catching it.

Micah: Mhm. Yeah, we do talk about it on a future show.

Andrew: What if…

Mikey: Oh. [laughs]

Andrew: Yeah. I think, and I didn’t say this on a future show, Voldemort seems to be leaning back.

Mikey: I was going to say, what if they tripped and fell and they’re just trying to grab something just to keep themselves from falling?


Mikey: Because you said that Voldemort looks like he’s falling back…

Andrew: Yeah.

Mikey: … and he’s reaching out to Harry, to try and grab him. I don’t know.

Andrew: It’s almost symbolic because he’s sort of, like, falling behind the curtain.

Mikey: A curtain.

Micah: Well, Andrew.

Andrew: Yeah. Yes.

Micah: After I read this e-mail, I talked to you and I said, “Now, I am 100 percent convinced that Harry is going to die in this final book.”

Andrew: I don’t remember you saying that, Micah, but go on.

Micah: I really think that that’s what going to happen, though. And I know it’s terrible, but I am really convinced and now I’m preparing myself for it because then it will be a nice little surprise if he doesn’t.

Andrew: Emotionally?

Micah: Yeah, because if you look at what’s happening, to me, what it suggests is Harry is welcoming whatever that is, like – let me get her name right.

Laura: Like “Welcome, death?”

Micah: Yeah, exactly. He’s not afraid of it, though.

Laura: Yeah.

Micah: And kind of what Kathryn’s saying is he’s holding it out – his palm wide open and it may not be death – it may be something that resembles death or something that causes death, whereas Voldemort is in a position holding out his hand where, like she said, he’s almost shielding himself. So, that suggests to me that this is the final battle and…

Andrew: Well, it’s got to be the final battle. Yeah.

Mikey: Well…

Micah: Something’s coming for both of them and Voldemort doesn’t want any part of it.

Andrew: That’s a good point.

Mikey: What if it’s love?

Andrew: Yeah.

Mikey: There’s the opposite of that. Love and death, man. It’s – Voldemort doesn’t like either of them. So, I don’t know. Maybe it’s Ginny coming after him.

[Mikey and Micah laugh]

Mikey: She’s mad. I don’t know.

Listener Rebuttal: The Castle IS Hogwarts

Andrew: Well, Micah, you brought up a good point. Voldemort doesn’t want any part of it, whatever’s going on there. I like that idea. Let’s move onto one more e-mail, and then we’ll head to voicemails. It comes from Daphne, 20, of Los Angeles. Mikey, you live near Los Angeles, don’t you?

Mikey: I do, I live in Orange County.


First, I would like to say that you had a lot of interesting theories about the covers and I enjoy listening very much. The castle on the children’s U.K. version, I think, is Hogwarts, because I know it looks sort of curved in places but you need to take into consideration the angle that the picture is being drawn from and then picture it standing from a distance, where you aren’t looking up at it but rather straight at it. Also, Harry does look like he’s being sucked in along with Ron and Hermione and just like Hermione by his feet.

Daphne is talking about the U.K. children’s cover.

The look on his face suggests that maybe he’s been taken by surprise and it’s not a good surprise and Dobby (assuming it is) is holding onto his shoulder because if he doesn’t, then he’ll get sucked in first just because he’s too small.

Well, whichever house-elf it is – that’s an interesting perspective about the Hogwarts castle. Does anyone still think it’s not the Hogwarts castle?

Laura: I mean, I guess it is. I guess it just doesn’t really look like how…

Andrew: It just looks different.

Laura: …I imagine Hogwarts. I mean, even if you’re standing far away from something – if it’s a castle, it’s not really going to have circular shapes to it. I mean it’s going to have towers, and I mean, we’re talking angles, not – I don’t know, it just doesn’t seem…

Micah: Understand though too that our perception of Hogwarts really comes from the movies.

Andrew: Mmm, yeah.

Micah: You know, just because it doesn’t look the way it does in the movies, doesn’t mean it’s not the castle.

Laura: No, I’m not saying that it’s just that, even disregarding the movies, when you think of an ancient castle, you don’t think of rounded towers.

Mikey: Ehhh, I don’t know – I don’t know. [laughs]

Laura: I mean, I guess it’s just – I mean, honestly, it’s just probably just an artist’s perception.

Andrew: Mhm.

Laura: And it probably is Hogwarts, but it just doesn’t quite look like the way it’s always been described. It doesn’t look as old.

Micah: It just looks like it’s reflecting in the moonlight, really.

Mikey: Yeah…

Kevin: I think it’s hard…

Mikey: There’s that cloud coming in and…

Andrew: Yeah.

Kevin: Yeah. I think it’s hard to tell because of the moonlight. It sort of…

Andrew: Yeah.

Kevin: …skews the image, so…

Andrew: Yeah, if there wasn’t that moonlight on there, what would the color underneath be? Probably the…

Kevin: Exactly.

Andrew: If there was the brown Hogwarts that we’ve always seen it would probably look more like what we’re used to seeing.

Laura: Mmhmm.

Andrew: Right?

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: And then what else? Yeah, this Daphne also pointed out about Ron, Hermione, and Harry falling into whatever that is there. Mikey and Kevin, you guys have any ideas about that? We discussed it on Episode 83.

Mikey: I don’t know…

Kevin: What…

Mikey: …what did you guys come up with?

Kevin: …what…

Andrew: Well, I mean, what were we saying? That it could have been a Gringotts vault. You know, it can’t be the veil.

Mikey: I like the vault idea.

Andrew: Yeah.

Mikey: I’m going with that.

Andrew: There’s just so much treasure.

Kevin: Yeah, me too.

Andrew: It’s very interesting. So, I thinkyou guys ready for some voicemails?

Voicemail: Dragon in Gringotts

[Audio]: Hey MuggleCast. This is Cheryl from Santa Clarita, and I was listening to your last podcast and I was just thinking two things on the U.K. edition cover. If you look in the lens of Harry’s glasses you can see something. It looks like it’s spewing flames, like it’s a dragon, and could they be in Gringotts? So, just wanted to know what you thought.

Andrew: I don’t get it. Why would that confirm…?

Laura: Because, what was – I forget his name, was Griphook the goblin, I believe, told Harry in the first book, or Hagrid did, that dragons guarded Gringotts.

Andrew: Oh! So – oh!

Kevin: Oh.

Andrew: That’s interesting. Yeah because…

Kevin: That is interesting.

Andrew: …we were wondering what the – what on earth was in the reflection on Harry’s glasses, last week. Hmmm.

Laura: So, I mean – maybe their actually falling towards a dragon, or maybe their trying to escape one and, I mean…

Andrew: Hmmm…

Laura: I mean, does this mean that Voldemort like has a Horcrux locked up in a vault there? That would be kind of cheesy.

Andrew: Yeah, well we were talking about…

Kevin: On a future episode we…

Andrew: Yeah. [laughs]

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: All right…

Laura: I’m not liking this future episode stuff.

Andrew: Yeah, no. Yeah, I know, I know. We do talk about…

Kevin: Oh, the possibility that Voldemort put – had an item of consequence like…

Andrew: Oh, yeah.

Kevin: …that he put in a vault, that he created – he used to make a Horcrux.

Andrew: Yeah, we were asking why he would do that. But…

Kevin: Which is why some – in this future episode…

Andrew: Yeah.

Kevin: [laughs] …we were considering that that house-elf may not be a house elf and may be one of the Gringotts Goblins.

Andrew: Right.

Laura: Yeah

Andrew: More on the future episode.

Kevin: Yes.

Andrew: Next voicemail.

Voicemail: Proof the Trio Survives?

[Audio]: Hi, this is Andy from Tennessee. I have a theory on – well, almost proof that the trio will survive. Not proof – I’m not sure. If you look at the U.S. cover, Harry doesn’t seem to be scratched up, and keep in mind that the sky is still the same color as it is in the U.K. cover. If you look at – what I am saying is that they’re in the veil or wherever they are fighting, Voldemort and him, and I think they’re actually exiting the veil because they’re all stopped the U.K. cover, going down that weird tunnel with all the rubies and the treasure, and the skies still orange. They’re exiting the veil, or wherever they are. So, while he’s fighting Voldemort, he’s not scratched up in the U.S. cover, so I’m saying the U.S. cover chronologically happens before the U.K. cover. The U.K. cover is the end – well, towards the end, assuming that it’s toward the end of the book. And the trio comes out all scratched up, but Harry’s not scratched up when he’s fighting Voldemort in the U.S. cover. So, tell me what you think. Thanks.

Andrew: That’s interesting.

Laura: That is interesting.

Andrew: The sky covers thing has good…merit, I guess you could say.

Laura: Well, it almost…

Mikey: And now that…

Kevin: I…

Mikey: That looks like an archway now. We’re talking about the veil earlier.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah.

Mikey: On the U.K. cover. Huh…

Kevin: You mean on the U.K. cover, it looks like an archway?

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: Yep.

Laura: It does.

Mikey: It doesn’t look like a circle any more.

Laura: Well, yeah, that looks like an archway and the room look – I mean, did we think that – did we used to think it looked circular?

Andrew: Well, heck, I mean, you could almost think – you could almost say that…

Kevin: Well, you can see a…

Andrew: …that archway is the same as all the archways circling Harry and Voldemort in the coliseum. It’s…

Laura: Oh, that’s true.

Andrew: …probably not, but they…

Laura: But it’s similar, yeah.

Andrew: Yeah. And honestly, the same sky colors are on the other side, through the archway.

Kevin: And you can see a piece of the – on the U.K. cover, if you look below Hermione’s arm, you can see a piece of it, so it does confirm that it’s not perfectly circular.

Laura: Yeah, I mean, it almost…

Kevin: Otherwise it would be curving back.

Laura: …looks like, if they’re falling forward, it almost looks like they’re escaping from whatever room we see depicted on the U.S. cover.

Kevin: Yeah, but – but look at…

Mikey: But why would Ron…

Kevin: …Ron’s position.

Mikey: Yeah, it’s like Ron.

Kevin: Yeah.

Laura: Yeah, I guess.

Kevin: That’s what’s confusing about it.

Mikey: You know, if you look hard enough, I think you can see the…

Kevin: Oh.

Mikey: …US cover hidden in the background…

[Everyone laughs]

Mikey: …of the UK cover. I think I zoomed in enough and I can kind of see it.

[Andrew laughs]

Mikey: I don’t know. I’m sorry.

Kevin: Although, actually, if you look at the position of Ron’s foot, it’s possible that he’s coming out…

Andrew: It’s so confusing how…

Kevin: …feet first. It really is.

Andrew: …this is setup, because like, there’s a dragon right in front of them, it seems, so like, you know, you wouldn’t be going towards that, would you? And…

Laura: Well, I mean…

Mikey: Unless it’s Norbert.

Laura: …the Death Room, or dragon? I mean… [laughs]

Andrew: Hermione and Ron are definitely falling back because of their hair. Definitely Hermione…

Laura: Well…

Andrew: …because her hair’s in front of her.

Micah: What do you guys think about him being pulled, because if you look at the left side of Ron’s cloak…

Andrew: Oh, it looks like he’s being tugged, yeah.

Micah: …up by his shoulder, it looks like he’s being pulled down, and that would…

Kevin: Oh, you’re right.

Micah: …kind of go with what’s going on with Hermione. She looks like she’s being pulled back, also.

Mikey: And Harry’s got this guy pulling him back with a sword.

Kevin: But Harry looks like he’s resisting it a bit more than the others.

Micah: He looks like he’s determined.

Mikey: We don’t see his feet.

Andrew: We don’t see his feet.

Kevin: Yeah.

Andrew: And Hermione also looks like she’s trying to grab onto something, but…

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: …Harry, on the other hand, is just blocking himself, or at least with his left arm and hand, he is. Hmm, well.

Laura: There seems to be a running theme with this, like, blocking, catching type thing going on with the covers.

Kevin: Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah.

[Laura laughs]

Mikey: Again, no wands – no wands.

Laura: Yeah.

Mikey: It’s all windless magic. We’re not going to see a single magic wand in this entire book.

[Micah laughs]

Andrew: Oh, we better.

Mikey: Oh, no.

Andrew: I miss the spells. Flippendo!

[Laura and Mikey laugh]

Andrew: Sorry, that was the video game.

Laura: Yeah. [laughs] My god.

Mikey: That was a fun spell.

Andrew: Flippendo! Flippendo! Flippendo! Over and over! Overused!

Laura: That used to piss my parents off all the time.

[Andrew and Kevin laugh]

Laura: I would play that to like, three in the morning, and my dad would come out and be like, “Shut the hell up.”

Kevin: Oh god.

Voicemail: Hogwarts and the Forbidden Forest

[Audio]: Hi guys, on the last episode of MuggleCast, you were talking about the back of the U.K. children edition and the castle, and what I thought was the castle is Hogwarts and the tree-type thing is maybe the Forbidden Forest, and because the Forbidden Forest is a lot darker, that that’s where the Death Eaters and bad guys are hiding, and as Hogwarts is illuminated, that’s where the good side are, and the way the clouds are heading towards Hogwarts, maybe it’s some sort of foreshadowing of a battle that will take place there. Love to hear your thoughts. Thanks, guys. Bye!

Kevin: Well, it looks – there’s two possibilities: that the clouds are like, fog, or like, something generated from a spell, or it’s just smoke and the woods are like the, you know…

Laura: On fire.

Kevin: …Forbidden Forest on fire.

[Laura laughs]

Kevin: It’s quite possible.

Laura: Yeah. Oh, yeah, it is.

Kevin: If you’re going…

Laura: Forest fire.

Kevin: If you’re going to siege a castle, you’re going to want to, you know, get rid of any cover that people could use to go in and out of the castle.

Laura: That’s true.

Kevin: Not to mention, clear a path, you know, a nice clear path to the castle, and what better way than just destroy a path right through the forest?

Micah: Clearly they need to listen to Smokey the Bear.

Laura: Yeah.

[Everyone laughs]

Kevin: I was going to say, although what’s interesting about the cover is that if you look, all this is going on, but look at that door on the bottom.

Andrew: What door?

Kevin: The bottom right.

Andrew: What door? What are you talking about?

Kevin: Well, well look at the back of the U.K. cover.

Andrew: Oh, oh, the back.

Kevin: It’s open.

Andrew: Yeah.

Kevin: I mean, light is coming out of it, so why, if you know, the castle is being attacked or something, why…

Laura: Well, maybe this is like…

Kevin: …is the door open?

Laura: …the calm before the storm.

Kevin: That’s – that’s true.

Micah: Mhm. Yeah, I agree with that.

Andrew: It’s an awfully bright light. It’s – I mean, it’s casting a…

Kevin: The moon?

Andrew: Well, no, no, no.

[Kevin laughs]

Andrew: What’s coming out of the door. See how it’s sort of…

Kevin: Yeah, yeah.

Listener Rebuttal: Meaning of the Color Orange

Andrew: …the light is like, spreading across the grounds. That’s interesting. I just got an interesting e-mail from Phil, 15, of right there in Orange County.

Mikey: The OC, represent.

Andrew: The OC. [sings The OC theme song]

“I just thought it would be good to let you know that the color orange means strength, honor, generosity, and prosperity. I was wondering if this could mean the opposite of a black cover for Book 7.”

And, I mean, the spine of the U.K. children’s cover is orange…

Kevin: It’s orange, yes.

Andrew: …and the sky is orange, and the curtains are orange. So, I thought that was kind of…

Kevin: And right below the ISBN is orange on the U.K. edition.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: There you go, yeah. So, I thought that was kind of interesting.

Mikey: Nothing rhymes with the word orange.

Andrew: I know! It’s such a problem when I play the rhyme game.

[Kevin laughs]

Mikey: [laughs] Or purple.

Andrew: Or purple. Slurple?

[Kevin laughs]

Micah: No.

Voicemail: Locket on UK Cover

[Audio]: Hey, this is Kitty from Georgia. I was calling because I was listening to MuggleCast number 83, and the locket on the U.K. adult edition – you were saying it’s not quite as extravagant as we would think Slytherin’slocket would be, and I was actually thinking that it might possibly be the one that Dumbledore and Harry found. The one that replaced there after they got the real Horcrux. All right, I love your show, bye.

Kevin: It could be. I mean…

Laura: See, my thing was…

Kevin: I don’t think the locket has to be extravagant in any way. You know what I mean?

Laura: It was Slytherin’s locket, though.

Kevin: Right.

Laura: …and the way that Voldemort kind of treasures very extravagant things…

Kevin: Right. If you look at that locket on the adult cover, those are gem stones laid into the…

Laura: Mardi Gras beads.

Kevin: Yeah, exactly. Do you think they’d actually be Mardi Gras beads. If it was Slytherin’s, I’m quite sure they’d be emeralds or something precious.

Laura: I’m sure they would be, but I think what – something I kind of wondered about…

Kevin: I didn’t see…

Laura: …was, if Harry is wearing the locket around his neck, I don’t think it would be safe to wear a Horcrux around your neck. It almost seems like he would wear the fake one as some sort of homage to Dumbledore.

Kevin: No, what I was thinking was…

Mikey: Dumbledore wore the ring.

Kevin: And what I was thinking…

Laura: Yeah, and look what happened to him.

[Laura and Mikey laugh]

Micah: Nice, Laura. Way to show respect.

[Mikey laughs]

Kevin: Well, what I was thinking was this: If Harry had destroyed the Horcrux – right?

Laura: Mhm.

Kevin: Like Dumbledore had destroyed the ring and now it was just a useless object – not useless, but you know what I mean.

Laura: Yeah, that’s an option, too.

Kevin: What a better way to psych out Voldemort than pull out the locket that Voldemort knows is a Horcrux, but is no longer a Horcrux.

Laura: Or what a better way to just walk up and be wearing it.

Kevin: Right. In a fight with Voldemort – I mean, if Voldemort is expecting to go into a battle with Harry and thinking that he has the upper hand because of the Horcruxes, and, all of a sudden, Harry pulls out a Horcrux, or is wearing a Horcrux that he knows is a Horcrux, he’s got to assume that Harry has done his job. And that’s a perfect way to psych…you know?

Mikey: Yeah. And he fears death, and that means he’s just one step closer to actual death, because Harry knows his secret.

Kevin: Right. Not to mention, I didn’t see, like – when I imagined the locket I didn’t imagine this gaudy piece of, you know, purely gem-encrusted jewelry. This is a locket that a man wore, you know, it was probably simple. It was not flashy.

Laura: Well, there’s not – I mean, there is a description of it. I forget what it was.

Mikey: But you’ve got to understand, the cover – the adult cover is not something to really take to heart.

Laura: Yeah, that’s true.

Kevin: Yeah, that’s true.

Mikey: I’m looking at the Chamber of Secrets one and you see the door, and it’s got like, glowing emeralds in the eyes; the philosopher’s stone’s like this glowing red stone and…you know? I think those are just made to, kind of, get the idea across, but they’re made to look more like an adult book. And I think it comes off really, really nice the way it is, but I don’t think it’s really meant to give us a perfect description of what the locket’s really supposed to be. That’s just me.

Laura: Hang on, I’m finding the description of the one at Grimmauld Place.

Mikey: Oh, it’s just like a heavy, unopenable locket. I remember reading it recently.

Laura: Yeah, “also a heavy locket that none of them could open.” So, we know it’s heavy.

Mikey: Yeah, see, very simple.

Kevin: That tells us a lot about the appearance of it. [laughs]

[Mikey laughs]

Laura: Well, no, it tells us that it is kind of a nondescript type thing, because if there was anything interesting about it, it would’ve been noted.

Kevin: They would’ve mentioned it, that’s true.

Micah: So, it wasn’t described at all in Half-Blood Prince?

Mikey: Also..yeah.

Laura: Well, not the real one.

Mikey: Well, also the “S.”

Micah: Well, it would have to be pretty close to the real one to make Voldemort think that when he opened it…

Laura: Well, how do we know that Voldemort actually made trips back to visit his Horcruxes, though?

Micah: No, but I’m saying, if R.A.B. found it in the first place, the replicate…

Kevin: He was intending that letter for Voldemort.

Micah: Yeah, the replicate would have to look…

Kevin: At least something like it.

Micah: …enough like the original…

Laura: Well, not necessarily, because he was trying to wig Voldemort out by saying, “I destroyed your Horcrux,” and what better way than for him to go and look and see something that’s very obviously not his, and then to open it and find that note.

How Did The Note Stay Dry?

Mikey: Question. Question. How did the note stay dry when it was inside that potion?

Kevin: [laughs] I would assume the locket was sealed…

Laura: Sealed.

Kevin: …with a gasket.

Mikey: Was it that sealed, you know, sitting there for years, you know, no water, no solution would get in?

Kevin: Yeah.

Laura: Yeah. Well, no, I own several lockets and if they’re well-made, they can be air-tight.

Kevin: And they said even on the Titanic and stuff, they found lockets and stuff like that with photos in them still.

Laura: Mhm.

Mikey: Yeah, but, when Dumbledore hit the ground the locket bumped open, so I’m assuming it’s not that good of a locket that they replaced it with.

Andrew: You could just hit it at the right angle.

Kevin: Yeah, if you hit it at the right angle, plus he’s dropping…

Mikey: [laughs] Okay. I’m sorry, you’re right.

[Everyone laughs]

Laura: Susepnd your disbelief disbelief…

Mikey: [laughs] I’m trying to cause problems here.

Andrew: No, no, no, no. I respect your opinion, but…stop talking.

Kevin: No. [laughs]

Mikey: All right, I’ll stop talking.

Andrew: I’m kidding, I’m kidding.

Eric’s Editing and Andrew in Disneyworld

Andrew: All right, so that does it for our voicemails and our cover coverage for now. Ha, ha, ha, ha. By the way, I just want to – Round of applause for Mr. Eric Scull last week for editing the show.

[Someone claps]

Andrew: Did a good job.

Micah: Oh, yeah.

Laura: Yay.

Micah: He did do a good job.

Andrew: If you recognize who – didn’t get the excellent editing that you always get, it was because of Eric. I’m just kidding. He actually did a…

[Kevin laughs]

Andrew: He did a really good job for his first time. Because I was down in Disneyworld!

[Pause of awkward silence]

Andrew: Okay, so…

[Everyone laughs]

Kevin: Okay.

Andrew: Don’t feel free, anyone, to participate.

Mikey: I was at Disneyland.

Andrew: [laughs] Were you?

Mikey: Yeah.

Andrew: Tell us more!

Mikey: I went with John Noe.

Andrew: Oh! That’s right, you went with John! Who is that guy? I don’t know. [laughs]

Mikey: Oh, I don’t know. Some guy.

Micah Wants an Update

Andrew: [laughs] Micah, the other day you were saying to me that you – Well, something was bugging you the other day.

Micah: Yeah, just a little bit. Nothing too, too much, but…

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: When I asked for Jo to update her site not too long ago, it was great that we did get the cover art and everything.

Andrew: Uh-huh.

Micah: But she still didn’t update her site! And…

Andrew: That’s a good point. You…

Micah: I might…

Andrew: I think she tried to trick you out!

Micah: I would just like to see something. She did try to trick me, and I don’t appreciate that, either.

Andrew: Uh-huh.

Micah: So, Jo, you don’t – don’t play games with a New Yorker like that.

Andrew: Ooo…

Kevin: Ooo…

Micah: Anyway…

Kevin: He has a family!

Mikey: I’m just saying…

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Micah: Maybe Easter. I think it would be nice if it sort of coordinated, since they call those things Easter eggs on her site.

Andrew: Mhm.

Micah: If she did something along those lines. Maybe a little update. Maybe she’s celebrating with her family on Sunday, so I don’t want to interrupt that. But Monday – in that time frame. That would be interesting to get something from her. Even a diary post! I’m not asking for big things here, okay? Just something nice; nice and simple.

Andrew: Yeah Alright. Very good, very good. I think that was a fair request, so we’ll see what you can make of it.

Chicken Soup for the MuggleCast Soul

Andrew: I thought it’d be fun to play Chicken Soup for the MuggleCast Soul…

Kevin: [laughs] Play?

Andrew: …NCAA edition. That’s why I said play.

Mikey: All right!

Kevin: Oh, I see.

Andrew: We have an email here from Paul Crookston, 14, of Tampa, Florida. He writes:

Hey, guys! I would just like to say that a liberal dose of MuggleCast and World of Warcraft…

[Makes mocking noise]

…kept me from extreme depression. After seeing Ohio State lose to the Florida Gators in basketball after Florida previously beat us (with great help from lady luck)…

[Makes mocking noise]

…in football as well, I was ready to ax-murder the next person I saw with gators swag on.


But MuggleCast and Warcrafting…

[Makes mocking noise]

…calmed me down enough to already have my mind on next year! Go MuggleCast and go Buckeyes!

Mikey: Go Buckeyes.

Andrew: I don’t support that statement, though. So, thanks, Paul, for that.

Listener Rebuttal: Manuscript Complaints

Andrew: And before we close out the show today, a couple more e-mails. I don’t understand why people are so upset that we revealed what happens in the final book. Another e-mail came from Rachel, 21 – she’s 21. She’s from the U.S.A.:

I can’t believe how immature you all are. I used to love you guys, and then I listened to Episode 83. If this was all a joke, I need to know, otherwise you’ll have lost one very faithful listener. With that, I spread the word. So far I have three people who will not listen to your broadcast, and the number will grow. Not a threat…

I don’t know how that’s not a threat.

[Laura and Kevin laugh]

Andrew: Continuing on:

…but you might want to change how you act. I can’t believe none of you thought it was wrong. Sigh. I think I’ve ranted enough. You guys are still a great group of people. I just think Episode 83 should have been more planned out, as in cutting out the part where you ruin my enjoyment of waiting to find out about the book when I read it. So long, and thanks for all the spoilers!

Anytime, Rachel! Anytime. One more e-mail…

Micah: [laughs] It was a joke! I mean, come on! We said they used MySpace and Facebook.

Laura: Well, here’s what I don’t get. All these people complaining about not wanting to know what happens in Book 7, but then you look – you look at the sales of’s What Will Happen, and it’s like…

Andrew: Exactly! [laughs]

Laura: …you did too want to know! You bought the book! You obviously want to know.

Mikey: They don’t want to know any definitive answers. They don’t want to know that Hermione and Ron die.

Laura: But, Mikey, it’s what will happen. No question marks.

Mikey: [laughs] But it’s still speculation. It’s still speculation.

Laura: That’s what you think!

Andrew: It’s not speculation if you’re telling the truth! You read the manuscript, didn’t you?

Mikey: Yeah, well, I did.

Listener Rebuttal: More on the Manuscript

Andrew: One more e-mail – I thought this was very cool – David and Mary, aged 12 and 15 of Ohio. They write:

Hey, MuggleCasters. We would just like to add some comments regarding the seventh book. To begin, our mother works for Scholastic. She also discovered a loophole in the system, allowing her to inform us of the events that occurred in the latest installment of Harry Potter. We were extremely shocked to discover Lord Voldemort made Luna’s radish earrings into a Horcrux! We also felt astonished that Voldemort possessed Arnold, the Pygmy Puff, thus infiltrating the ranks of the Order of the Phoenix. We love the show, but we’re disappointed you forgot to mention these vital plot details. Thanks! David and Mary.

David and Mary…

Micah: Another Pokemon reference.

Andrew: …well, I just…

Mikey: We didn’t want to give everything away.

Andrew: Yeah, exactly.

Laura: Besides, now there’s two more people for everybody to yell at for spoiling Book 7!

Andrew: Yeah!

Micah: E-mail them, e-mail them.

Andrew: Okay, you want their IP address? They didn’t give me their email, but do you want their IP address?

[Kevin and Laura laugh]

Andrew: I’ll send it to everyone.

Micah: But I was just going to point out another Pokemon-Harry Potter connection. [laughs]

Andrew: Oh, what’s that?

Micah: Arnold the Pygmy Puff is just like Jigglypuff.

Andrew: Good point, good point!

Show Close

Andrew: [Show music in the background] All right! So I think that wraps up today’s show. We thank everyone for listening.

To contact us, you can just head over to our brand new MuggleCast website. You can send us some parcel mail with the MuggleCast – to the MuggleCast PO box:

PO Box 223

Moundrige, Kansas


You can also call the MuggleCast hotline: if you’re in the United States, you can dial 1-218-20-MAGIC (62442). If you’re in the United Kingdom, you can dial 020-8144-0677. And if you’re in Australia, you can dial 02-8003-5668.

You can also Skype the username “MuggleCast,” and try to keep your message under a minute and eliminate as much background noise as possible. You can also go to for a handy feedback form to contact any one of us, or our first name at staff dot mugglenet dot com.

Also, don’t forget to visit all of our community outlets – the Myspace, Facebook, Youtube, Frappr,, and the Fanlisting and Forums.

You can also Digg the show at, vote for us once a month at Podcast Alley, and rate and review at Yahoo! Podcasts. I’m really tongue-twisted right now.

Also, one last note, coming up on Wednesday or Thursday, not sure which, we have another special midweek “Jamie is a Waste of Space” show! And that is a live call-in show that we did a little earlier today, hence the reason we kept referencing the future show. So, that about does it! Once again, I’m Andrew Sims.

Kevin: I’m Kevin Steck.

Laura: I’m Laura Thompson.

Micah: I’m Micah Tannenbaum.

Mikey: And I’m Mikey B.

Andrew: We’ll see everyone next week – actually, Wednesday – for Episode 86! Bye, everyone!

Kevin: Goodbye!

Laura: Bye!


Written by: Micah, Adrienne, Allison, Briana, Cindy, Jessica, Laura, Leah, Margaret, Matt, Samantha, Sapna, Sarah, Shannon, Shelly, and Tina