Transcript #194

MuggleCast 194 Transcript

Show Intro

[Intro music begins]

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[“Hedwig’s Theme” plays]

Jim Dale: [as Professor McGonagall] This is Professor McGonagall welcoming you all to MuggleCast hoping you enjoy – Dobby! Dobby, come here! Here! Dobby! [as Dobby] Yes, I’d just like to say how very pleased I am to introduce MuggleCast to all of you! Thank you! Thank you!

[Show music begins]

Micah: Because Jim Dale beats Stephen Fry…

[Audio]: “You bitch!”

Micah: Well, that was highly unprofessional – this is MuggleCast Episode 194 for March 16th, 2010.

[Show music continues]

Andrew: Welcome to MuggleCast Episode 194. It’s a three man show this week, Eric, Micah, and I. Ben and Jamie were going to be on but then they ditched us!


Micah: Well, Ben for a good reason. Jamie, I’m not so sure what happened to him.

Andrew: Jamie literally ditched us.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: I’m going to be seeing him later this week, and I’ll be sure to punch him for all of you.

Eric: He didn’t call. He didn’t write. He just didn’t show up.

Andrew: Yes.

Micah: How are you going to be able to see Jamie this week, Andrew?

Eric: Yeah, what’s up with that?

Andrew: [laughs] I’m going to London in a few days.

Micah: For what?

Andrew: To visit the set of Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows. It’s very exciting.

Eric: What?

Andrew: Yes. So, yeah, but I won’t be able to say much about it. I’ll be able to write a little report, but I’m excited. It’ll be fun. We’re going to be seeing a really cool scene, and I’ll be able to write a little teaser report afterwards and then the full report will come later this year. So, yeah!

Eric: That’s like what you did with…

Micah: Hopefully.

Eric: Did you do that for Half-Blood Prince? I know you did for Order of the Phoenix.

Andrew: Yeah, yeah.

Eric: And I mean, you got to see the detail that went into Umbridge’s cat dishes.

Andrew: Yeah, they were all about that with Order of the Phoenix. [laughs]

Eric: Hopefully there will be something interesting.

Andrew: Yeah, there should be, hopefully. Hopefully, they’re not giving up at this point, and we’re going to go there, and the place is just a wreck. Sort of like senioritis when nobody cares anymore. [laughs].

Eric: Well, they’re tearing it down afterwards. Didn’t Dan say in an interview that they’re just…

Andrew: I know – well, some of the sets. Not all of them.

Eric: …Oh yeah.

Andrew: So yeah. I’ll probably have more on that on the next episode, but this episode we got some news to catch up on, Chapter-by-Chapter, of course. We got a Favorites segment. Oh! And so much more. I’m Andrew Sims.

Eric: I’m Eric Scull.

Micah: And I’m Micah Tannenbaum.

[Show music continues]

Andrew: Micah, you know, I hate to dwell on this, because I feel like other – every week – or every episode I’m like, “It was a big news week. It was a slow news week. It was a big news week. It was a slow news week,” but this past two weeks was probably the slowest Harry Potter news week [laughs] that we’ve ever seen.

Micah: Yeah, I completely agree with you. It was very, very slow. I mean, all you have to do is go on the site and look at the number of news posts since we released our last episode, and it’s probably about five or six. So…

Eric: Wow! It’s on the same page?

Micah: It’s…

Andrew: There is a four day gap between news items. That’s like a new record for us, I think.

Micah: Yeah, yeah.

Andrew: But that is not a sign of Harry Potter dying down!

[Micah laughs]

Andrew: Because, of course, as we get closer to the film it’s going to explode with news. I mean, we’ll be posting…

Micah: And the park, too.

Andrew: …yeah, the park’s going to be a big news item as well.

News: Jason Isaacs Role in Deathly Hallows

Micah: And Lego Harry Potter. So, there’s a lot that I think will be in the news in the next couple of weeks, but yeah. These last two weeks have been a little bit light. We did have one story which you had posted yesterday where Jason Isaacs brought up the fact that he had a little bit of a limited role in Deathly Hallows, and that…

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: …he made a decision that – I don’t know is he questioning that decision now? Because…

Andrew: Well, I think he is jokingly, but…

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: Here. Let’s listen real quick to what he had to say. This was comments he made to BBC Radio 2 the other day.

[Andrew plays the clip]

Interviewer: Can we talk about Potter?

Jason Isaacs: Yeah, yeah. Sure, go on. Absolutely.

Interviewer: Have you finished wrapping up yet?

[Jason Issacs laughs]

Interviewer: No, you haven’t then?

Jason Isaacs: Yeah. No, I have finished. Hopefully, there will be some publicity, and I can maybe get the wig back on again. It was a very sad day for me, day I left. In fact, it wasn’t planned. It was a decision we made about how Lucius should end his bit in the story. We had been leading up to it for a while and David, the lovely director, had kept me in touch with me then. “What are going to do with the end? What are we going to do that’s really great? How will we have a lovely ending?” One day I came up with this thing, and he went “Oh, that’s it! That will be great.” Then we shot some particular bit, but I still had months left to film. I went to the trailer and took my gear off and the first assistant came to see me, went “Jason, we just looked at the schedule and realized that we don’t need you in January, February, or March.”

Interviewer: No!

Jason Isaacs: He went, “Well because that thing you just decided to do means you’re not in that scene, that scene, or that scene.” And I went “I’ve changed my mind! No! I want to stay. Get everybody back!”

[Interview clip ends]

Andrew: So he revealed that David Yates, the director, came to him and said, “How are we going to end your character’s role?” Jason came up with an idea that ended up cutting him out from several scenes. He didn’t kill himself, did he?

Eric: No!

Andrew: He didn’t kill Lucius Malfoy. Then what happened, Eric? What do you think they did?

Eric: I think that they – that Lucius is going to be in the Chamber of Secrets when Ron and Hermione go down there. That’s going to be his end. There’s going to be another basilisk. It’s going to be awesome.

Andrew: [laughs] So he’s going to die?

Eric: Yeah. No, no, no. Not necessarily, but just so he’s obviously trying to get into Hogwarts and all that. So he won’t be in the scenes in the Manor and stuff. So he’ll be conspicuously absent. I just think it means that because of where he is in the scene doesn’t make sense for him to be in the background of other scenes.

Andrew: Maybe.

Eric: I don’t think he’s dead.

Andrew: Yeah, yeah. Of course that is one popular theory being floated around right now because Jason Isaacs is very passionate about this role, but on the other hand, I can’t imagine him coming up with an intricate new theory.

Micah: And I don’t think he would though, that the thing. He’s very true to the books and he loves the stories, so I don’t think he would do anything that’s really too far off of what’s in the books.

Eric: Right. Yes.

Andrew: That’s true.

Micah: But killing off his character? That’s definitely a possibility because this is something that I know a lot of fans of the books worry about is, do the characters get a just end in the movies? And Lucius doesn’t really get that great of an ending. I mean, he kind of just walks off with Narcissa and Draco, and there’s really no story about what happens to him. We know that he doesn’t necessarily turn good, but you know, he kind of eludes all the fighting that’s going on at Hogwarts to save his son.

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: And I don’t know if that’s going to be a good enough end for people who have seen him be sort of this evil, sadistic character throughout the course of the movies.

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: What do you guys think?

Andrew: I think that’s a good point. But this also makes me wonder – well, first of all, on top of Jason really caring about the role, and these books, David Yates also really cares about these books, so I don’t think he would want to kill him off either. However, this makes me wonder, did he ask other actors how they want to end their roles? Did they just all come up with clever ways to end it? Because I think it would be really cool to see each character have some sort of special ending.

Micah: Yeah.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: By each character, I don’t mean, obviously, every character, but the bigger roles.

Eric: I agree. I mean, I think it’s going to be something akin to the toothpaste gag in Half-Blood Prince. Which, just that, you know – it something that was a strict movie-ism, but it was recurring in the movie, so it had continuity, and it doesn’t really matter, but it’s cool. I mean, many people, I guess, didn’t like it…

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: My concern though, in this, though, is what would he have decided upon that would make him miss months of filming. That he wouldn’t be in this scene or that scene or that scene. And it’s all conjecture because we don’t know in what order things were really filmed.

Andrew: Right.

Micah: He could have filmed the ending at the very beginning. So – I mean, the other thing he could have done is switch sides earlier, and sort of betrayed Voldemort in some capacity. I don’t know, but this is really odd. I mean, going back to the point you made earlier, are we going to see the scene where David Thewlis and Natalia Tena get killed? Because that’s not in the books…

Eric: Right.

Micah: …but a moviegoer would need more of that resolution, I think, instead of just seeing them on a table in the Great Hall in passing.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Andrew: Yeah, that would be bad.

Eric: It is interesting. The other thing – we’ve gotten further confirmation in the past few weeks that there won’t be any Hogwarts appearing in the first movie. You know, I’ve speculated at one point that it would be cool to see Neville and all of them going around, not just in a flashback, but sort of concurrently while everybody else is on the road, as a nice detractor. But it was actually – I think it was confirmed – I forget who did it – that we wouldn’t see Hogwarts in Part I. They’re sticking heavily to the book, so it is interesting for Jason Isaacs to say, “Hey, I got to choose how I ended things.” And of course it removed him from certain scenes.

Andrew: Yeah. I don’t know, this should be interesting. When I’m on set next week I’m going to ask him. But I probably won’t be able to tell you because it pertains to Part II, and I can’t talk about Part II until Part II is out.

Micah: Well, you can tell us, you just can’t tell them.

Andrew: I’ll tell you two.

Micah: Them being the listeners.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Yeah. Them listeners. I’ll be like, “Mr. Yates, please don’t tell me. Don’t tell me Lucius is dead.” He’ll be like, “No, no of course not, of course not. That’d be ridiculous. We’d never do such a thing. But we did kill McGonagall.” No! Anyway, what else is going on, Micah?

News: Wizarding World of Harry Potter Competitions

Micah: Well, a little bit of news on the Wizarding World of Harry Potter. There seems to be a lot of contests, as we expected, that are surfacing to give people the opportunity to win a trip down to the Harry Potter theme park when it opens. And Ellen DeGeneres is joining the mix, and she’s looking for die-hard Harry Potter fans.

Andrew: Mhm.

Micah: And we know that she is going to be down there doing a couple episodes from Universal, Orlando, in the coming months. And it may, in fact, be tied in with the opening of the park, or maybe she’s getting a tour, I think it was, even if it’s…

Andrew: Exactly.

Micah: …not going to be fully complete. Who knows exactly what the specifics are going to be, but this is just another great opportunity for people to submit and hopefully win.

Andrew: I’m guessing this is another – what Ellen’s going to do is she’s going to go down there while taping her show and then get a tour of the park, but she’s going to take the Harry Potter fan – the die-hard Harry Potter fan down with her. And then Ellen will walk around and be like, “Oh, what’s this? What’s this?”

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: And the die-hard fan will be like, “Oh, well that is Honeyduke’s. That’s found in Hogsmeade.”

[Eric laughs]

Micah: That’s a great point.

Andrew: So did you guys – I applied for this.

Micah: Did you really?

Andrew: Did you guys? Yeah.

Micah: You’re not precluded in any way?

Andrew: Well, it said kids…

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: …but I don’t think – they didn’t set an age.

Eric: “Do you have a precocious child who knows everything…”

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Eric: “…there is to know?” I read “child”, Andrew, on MuggleNet, and I said, “Darn it, I can’t apply.” That just – it naturally was an exclusion to me.

Andrew: You know what? I did it anyway. Whatever! And there’s a little box that says, “Explain why you would be the best Harry Potter fan.” Because on the form it said if you’re under fourteen, have your parents sign this. But, you know, you don’t have to be…

Eric: Under fourteen.

Andrew: There was no strict age limit. So I said, “Look, I post news on MuggleNet. Ellen, I’ll help you out. When I’m through with you, you’ll be the best Harry Potter fan in the world.” And I left it at that.

Micah: Yeah.

Eric: Well, let’s see – did you really write that?

Andrew: Yeah!

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: Well, I put it a little nicer, but I did say that ëI’m part of MuggleNet, and when I’m through with you [laughs] you’ll be the best Harry Potter fan!’

Eric: That’s really awesome, and they have too many contests for kids who like Harry Potter. What about us? We were kids when we liked Harry Potter. I was reading my book for Chapter-by-Chapter, and my paperback book is eight years old, and falling apart.

Andrew: Wow, yeah.

Eric: And we were kids once, but we’re not anymore. They need to have more contests to take us places.

Andrew: Yeah, and to be honest, they’ll end up picking a fourteen year old, and that person will stink. I’m sorry, but you need someone with personality to join Ellen down there. So that’s why – I also mentioned MuggleCast – so, Ellen, pick me!

Micah: Yeah, this is just another one of those competitions, I think, that NBC is doing. We mentioned the Today Show a while back, so it seems like a lot of NBC shows are getting involved in the park opening, and the construction that’s going on down there, and doing all these shows. But guess what, Andrew? For all that we have on the Wizarding World of Harry Potter, you can visit our Theme Park section!

Andrew: That’s right!

Micah: Where all of this information is.

Andrew: We have a very exhaustive Theme Park section on MuggleNet. Just go to, and on the left, under Info, you’ll see ëHP Theme Park,’ where there’s pictures and the latest news stories, and some numbers, and all that. By the way, if Ellen picks me, I will also be giving her tips on American Idol, because I don’t think she’s been very good on that show.

Micah: Wow, that’s a bold statement.

Andrew: What? Well, I want to tell her how it’s done – how to judge! Ellen, I’m going to judge you judging!

Eric: You didn’t like her comparison about the banana in the paper bag?

Andrew: [laughs] That was her one joke she ever made on the show. I thought that was kind of funny, because that’s what people are expecting her to do, but that was the one time she made a joke. It’s about time!

News: The Hogwarts Express at the Theme Park

Micah: Well, speaking of the Wizarding World, the last bit of news that we have is that the Hogwarts Express is finally there, and I received a picture in my inbox, and I posted it on the site, and you know how much I love pictures, after Half-Blood Prince, so this was just like Christmas Day for me.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Micah: But it’s good to see the park’s coming together and I think we’ll continue to get more from Universal, Orlando, as the pieces of the puzzle start coming together.

Andrew: Well, it’s a beautiful photo and what was new about this photo is you see the steam coming out of the Hogwarts Express and that really makes it feel alive. I thought the thing was just going to sit there, but it’s also going to be billowing steam, and it’s got Harry’s little carriage with all his luggage sitting right out front of it. So it’s really cute. And it looks like on the left side of the train there is a little ramp to walk up to sort of get…

Micah: Photo op?

Andrew: Yeah, a little photo opportunity there. So I think it’s – what a nice little welcoming to walk into the theme park, a little Hogwarts Express.

Micah: Yeah, it seems like they’re doing everything possible to make the experience for people.

Andrew: Yeah. I mean, just the billowing smoke, I think that makes all the difference in the world.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: It brings it to life. It’s cool. Good job, Universal.

Eric: There was one thing that isn’t in – I just checked at the end of the show when we remind people about Infinitus – Christian Coulson is going to be there.

Andrew: Yes!

Eric: Just thought you should…

Andrew: …that news, was revealed earlier this week. The Chamber of Secrets star who played Tom Riddle.

Eric: Ah, that’s awesome.

Andrew: What’s a good quote from that movie by him?

Eric: Uh, “For the last few months, Harry, my target has been you.”

[Andrew laughs]

Andrew: So he’ll be at Infinitus – is the site you can go to to get all the information about the Harry Potter conference!

Eric: What’s next?

Andrew: Yes, Ben, we will be doing a podcast there.

[Micah laughs]

Andrew: He telepathically asked me. All right so, let’s move on now to the e-mails this week. And well, before we get to the regular e-mails, you guys may remember that last time on Episode 193, we were talking about what the “Not my daughter, you bitch!” sound clips sounded like when narrated by Stephen Fry and Jim Dale. Well, our faithful listeners Shae, Jon, and Josh, they all sent in the clips of Stephen and Jim narrating this bit of the book. And they are so funny, I’d never heard them before! [laughs] So, first, here is Stephen Fry.

[Audio (Stephen Fry)]: Not my daughter, you bitch!

[Andrew laughs]

Andrew: And then here is Jim Dale.

[Audio (Jim Dale)]: “Not my daughter, you bitch!”

Andrew: [laughs] I just thought it was funny.

Eric: Stephen Fry…

Micah: Who wins out there? I think Jim Dale does.

Andrew: Yeah, I think so too…

Eric: What?!

Andrew: Because of that pause.

Eric: Totally Stephen Fry! There’s no pause mid-sentence!

Andrew: Well, let’s listen again. Here’s Stephen:

[Audio (Stephen Fry)]: Not my daughter, you bitch!

Andrew: And here’s Jim.

[Audio (Jim Dale)]: Not my daughter, you bitch!

[Everyone laughs]

Micah: Nah, I got to give it to Jim Dale!

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Why?! That’s like a separate thought! There is no separate thought in there. It’s like, “not my daughter… you bitch!”

Andrew: But that inflection makes it all the difference!

Micah: But Jim was on the show.

Andrew: “You bitch!”

Micah: Jim was on the show. Stephen was not, so… it goes to Jim.

Eric: I’m sorry, I am on the side of Stephen Fry on this one. That’s all there is to it.

Andrew: I’m with Jim Dale. And Micah. By the way, we should mention – and, some people, I guess newer listeners don’t know this, but the intro to our show, when you hear “Welcome to MuggleCast”, and you hear McGonagall and Dobby characters talking, that’s Jim Dale. He did that narration for us when we interviewed him about, close to two years ago.

Eric: That’s so awesome.

Andrew: Yeah. It was really cool. And when we asked him to do it, it was great! Because we didn’t even ask him to do those voices, he just – we were like, “Hey, could you do an intro for us?” and he just went into that thing. It was really, really nice of him. laughs And so good, so – love having that. That’s a nice way to intro the show. Okay, let’s get into some e-mails. Eric, could you read the first one from Gigi?

Muggle Mail: Time Traveling

Eric: First one comes from Gigi D., age 15, from Missouri. She says:

“Hey MuggleCasters! I have a Muggle Mail about Hermione and Time Travel. In the last two episodes, 192 and 193, you talk about how Hermione must be older, but I don’t think she is. In Chamber of Secrets, she is petrified and therefore does not age, so the Time Traveling would really speed up her growing so that she would be her actual age at the end of PoA. If she would have continued for much longer though, I think she would’ve had more aging problems. To put this another way, Harry is about three hours older, but Hermione is not. Sorry if this sounds confusing. I love your show and I’ve been a listener for a while, since Episode 101. Sincerely, Gigi.”

Eric: That’s kind of cool. She points out that Hermione being petrified may have served to counteract her aging…

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: …in the next book. That’s kind of cool!

Andrew: That is cool. That’s a funny way…

Micah: We have smart listeners.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: I could picture Jo mentioning that too. [laughs]

Eric: That’s true. That’s really cool.

Andrew: As her clever way of excusing that whole theory of Hermione aging.

Eric: History is course correcting.

Muggle Mail: Beware a Red-Headed Man

Andrew: Micah, would you like to take the next e-mail?

Micah: Yeah. The next e-mail comes from Xenia, 18, from Phoenix, and she says:

“Just as a slight correction. One of the reader’s e-mails said that Trelawney told Lavender to beware a red-head man. It was in fact, Parvati. Love the show. It pays to have the book in front of you. From Xenia.”

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Micah: All right!

Andrew: Oopsies! A little backhanded comment.

Micah: This was sent in by quite a few people, so it wasn’t just Xenia that caught this. And what people were suggesting was in fact, Trelawney was not seeing Parvati but her sister who ends up at the Yule Ball with Ron.

Eric: Ooh. We have an excuse for everything on this show.

Micah: Yeah, we do.

[Andrew laughs]

Andrew: Did you pick this e-mail because she signed it ‘pickles!’? We haven’t heard that in a while.

Micah: No.

Eric: And her name is Xenia, which is awesome.

Micah: Yeah, I picked it because of her name.

Andrew: [laughs] So if you want your e-mail read on the show, please come to us with the coolest name ever.

Micah: And be from the coolest place.

Andrew: Phoenix?

Micah: Not saying that Phoenix is the coolest place, but yeah.

Andrew: Oh.

Micah: I look at countries too when I’m picking e-mails. To kind of highlight our international listeners.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: You are so biased. Our poor – but we do read all your e-mails.

Micah: We do.

Andrew: We just can’t put them all on the show of course.

Micah: Well we could, it’d just be really long.

Muggle Mail: Crookshanks Being Protective

Eric: Next e-mail comes from Georgia-Kate, age 14, from Bristol, United Kingdom. Says,

“Hey guys, I was recently listening to Episode 193. During the Chapter-by-Chapter review you mentioned that on the morning of Harry’s Quidditch match, in which he sees the Grim, he woke up to find Crookshanks in the boy’s dorm and spent most of the morning trying to stop Crookshanks from reentering the dorm. By this point Crookshanks should know that Scabbers is not as he seems, so I had thought maybe Crookshanks was watching over Harry kind of protecting him if Pettigrew tried to approach him. Just a theory, hope you like it. Love the podcast. Keep up the awesome work.”

Micah: Interesting.

Eric: I think it’s cool.

Micah: Well, I mean, what’s going to happen? Is Crookshanks going to bust in with an AK-47 or something if Pettigrew transforms? I don’t really know that Scabbers is that dangerous though. You look at the fact of the first two books, he never attempted to do anything to Harry throughout any of those, so…

Eric: It’s fair question because knowing that Crookshanks is talking to the dog version of Sirius, it seems very plausible that Sirius would say, “Hey look, can you look after Harry?” It just seems like Harry might need protecting.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: That seems to be the credit for this. And then on the other hand, there’s your question, Micah, when Pettigrew does transform back into a human, it’s the first time he’s apparently done it in thirteen years and he has to be forced to transform back. It’s not an easy transition – it’s not like he’s just going to whip out and turning into human is an option to him just yet. Pettigrew is very much waiting to see what is and isn’t going to happen. If he has the upper hand, Voldemort is going to take him back and all that, then he’ll do it, but it’s a question of whether Peter can turn back to being human. But he’s still a dirty rat.

Andrew: He is.

Eric: That’s a good question.

Andrew: Yeah. I think the theory is plausible. It is a very interesting – and we’ll discuss more about Crookshanks and Scabbers and all that in our Chapter-by-Chapter series. There’s a couple more rounds of fighting in this instalment.

[Eric laughs]

Muggle Mail: J.K. Hates Her Characters

Micah: All right. The last e-mail comes from Chloe, 18, of Christchurch, New Zealand. And she says,

“Hey there, Mugglecast. I would like to put in my two cents on the whole Draco and Pansy discussion you had in Episode 193 about why Draco and Pansy never ended up together. I found this piece of information off ‘Harry Potter’ Wiki about why Draco and Pansy never got together. J.K. Rowling has said that Pansy never ended up with Draco because she always hated her. “I loathe Pansy Parkinson. I don’t love Draco but I really dislike her. She’s every girl who ever teased me in school. She’s the anti-Hermione. I loathe her.”

[Eric laughs]

“So I’m guessing she didn’t want Pansy to have a happy ending since she hated the character so much, though it still bugs me that she just got some random character to marry Draco, Astoria Greengrass. But then again, the series is not called ‘Draco Malfoy’, it’s called ‘Harry Potter’. Sorry if this does not make complete sense. From, Chloe.”

And it makes perfect sense. And I’m glad that she put that in there because I don’t think we said anything about what J.K. Rowling had to say about it last week.

Andrew: Basically, Jo just wanted to stick it to Pansy.

Eric: To Pansy Parkinson.

Andrew: “You will not be happily married!” It’s kind of funny.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Eric: Oh gosh.

Micah: Once again we have smart listeners. Finding this stuff…

Andrew: Yeah! Keeping an eye out for us. Yup.

Micah: Better than us!

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: Well, I wouldn’t say that.

Eric: They should just replace us. Open auditions for MuggleCast!

Andrew: Well like I mentioned before, there is just so much information pertaining to the series, it’s quite impossible to get it all and to have it all memorized. Especially things that Jo has said in the past. However, we do try to look stuff up while we’re talking about these topics.

Eric: Yeah, and we’re always happy to read these e-mails.

Andrew: Oh, of course.

Eric: Especially if you have an interesting name or are from an interesting place.

MuggleCast 194 Transcript (continued)

Chapter-by-Chapter: “The Marauder’s Map”

Andrew: [laughs] Right. Okay so let’s get into Chapter-by-Chapter! This week we’re looking at Chapters 10, 11, and 12 of Prisoner of Azkaban and we’re going to start with Chapter 10 of course: “The Marauder’s Map.” So when the chapter opens we see Harry doesn’t want to throw away the pieces of his Nimbus 2000. It “felt as though he’d lost one of his best friends,” and this sort of reminded me of Hedwig’s death in Deathly Hallows because this is an example of Harry’s childhood slowly disappearing. It’s heading into the past as he loses items like the Nimbus 2000 and Hedwig. Are there any other examples of Harry losing childhood items that you can think of off the top of your head?

Eric: Dobby.

Micah: Sirius.

Andrew: Dobby and Sirius, yeah. Great examples.

Eric: I mean, equal to – I mean, he’s holding the pieces of his Nimbus 2000, it’s not like he’s holding Hedwig’s broken body and has to throw her away.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: But you’re right. I mean, it’s this passage, these things that Harry has loved. Later in this series of chapters he’s remembering the first time he rode a broomstick and it’s kind of very reminiscent of this…

Andrew: Yeah. I would be so upset too. That was his first broom! He loves Quidditch and that holds a lot of memories for him and to lose that, to see it shatter in pieces is very sad!

Eric: Yeah. It was the top of the line too, in its time.

Andrew: Yes, in its time. In its day. [laughs] So Harry hasn’t told anyone about the Grim and this, in a way, is a testament to his strength, I think because if I had a repeat Grim offender going after me, I wouldn’t hesitate to tell someone. So at the same time, I do find it kind of odd that he didn’t mention the Grim to anyone. It was sort of immature. But what’s the deal? Why isn’t he telling anyone?

Micah: Well – go ahead, Eric.

Eric: No, go ahead, Micah.

Micah: I was going to say – how much of it though, is – he constantly hears McGonagall sort of downplaying Trelawney and her predictions, and a lot of this does come from his Divination class and his ability to sort of see these things within the teacup, and then he sees it at the match again. So I wonder if he feels if he goes and talks to a professor, it’s going to be something that’s easily dismissed. And remember, this is a kid who had heard voices all throughout Chamber of Secrets, and he was told it wasn’t good to hear voices, so now all of a sudden instead of hearing things, he’s seeing things. So maybe he thinks that if he goes forward to somebody again then they’re going to dismiss him.

Andrew: Hmmm.

Eric: That’s a good point. I think also that maybe, possibly, Harry suspects – sort of in the same line as that – I think he suspects that there’s more to it than that it’s the Grim. And I mean, he has no way of knowing specifically that, oh, you know, he saw a dog Animagus, not a Grim. But just the way that the Grim – just the way that Sirius approached him on Magnolia Crescent, and wasn’t threatening, just randomly in the bushes and then a minute he’s gone. There’s something non-threatening about a certain aspect – I think Harry has a suspicion that perhaps there’s more to the story. And I mean, there is more to the story, but I think he kind of wants to see if it’s not actually – not superstition that – I think he’s pretty sure at this point that he’s really seeing the Grim, so the Grim being an omen works to make him feel vulnerable, but also, I think he thinks that there’s possibly something else going on.

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: Yeah, I can see that.

Andrew: Yeah, I don’t know, like I would think if he were to tell someone like McGonagall – getting back to Micah’s earlier point – I think McGonagall would have taken it a little more seriously. I mean we see her very paranoid about Harry going to Hogsmeade, for example. Don’t you think she would be like, “Oh, you’re seeing the Grim. Whoa, what’s up with this? Let’s talk to Dumbledore about it,” or something.

Eric: Yeah. It is curious why Dumbledore’s not involved here.

Andrew: Yeah, I was missing him in these chapters. I mean, he shows up in Chapter Twelve. Maybe a little bit in Chapter 11 – no, not Chapter 11. Just Chapter 12. I was missing him.

Micah: Yeah, that’s an interesting point, particularly because Dumbledore knows of Sirius’ Animagus form. We find that out obviously, later on, that he knew that all of the Marauders were able to transform, because of everything related to Lupin and needing to have a place of refuge for him to turn into a werewolf. But that’s another thing about this book that kind of puzzled me a little bit that why Dumbledore really wouldn’t be on the lookout for his Animagus form.

Andrew: Well, anyway, moving along. Lupin is back as teacher of the Defense Against the Dark Arts class. He hears about how Snape treated them and tells the students they don’t have to write the two rolls of parchment – the essay that has to be two rolls of parchment. Now, is this just me or is it bad for a teacher to cancel an assignment issued by another professor? Because in the real world that’s like a substitute teacher issuing an assignment and then the real teacher coming back and canceling it. It just seems irresponsible!

Eric: [laughs] Andrew, I don’t think that a substitute teacher I’ve ever had has actually issued any work to be done.

Andrew: Well, usually they follow the…

Eric: The guideline.

Andrew: Right.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: I – it seems irresponsible.

Eric: I think it’s protection because the essay was on werewolves, wasn’t it? So Lupin just doesn’t want people delving into that much about werewolves otherwise – lest they find out that Lupin is a werewolf.

Micah: Yeah, I agree with that.

Andrew: I get that, but he said – I think he does mention in this chapter that they are going to get to werewolves eventually.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: But, I don’t know. I was just – I think that sets a bad example for the students.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: I wonder if that got back to Snape. “Ha, ha. He canceled our assignment!”

Eric: He’d just write – he’d just make them do an essay in potions.

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah.

Andrew and



Micah: But I think that’s a little bit of the relationship underlined between Lupin and Snape. And I…

Eric: Very true.

Micah: …don’t think Lupin is very fond of Snape in the teaching aspect of it, but at the same time he has to be grateful to him for brewing this potion that he’s been drinking all the time.

Andrew: Oh, yeah, I think you’re right. So after class Lupin holds Harry back to talk about the Dementor attack. He goes into great detail about the Dementors, describing them as some of the, “foulest creatures that walk this earth. They infest the darkest, filthiest places, they glory in decay and despair. They drain peace, hope and happiness out of the air around them.” Harry wants Lupin to teach him how to fight off a Dementor and Lupin agrees to help, but he must wait until the next term! I didn’t particularly get that because it seems like a very urgent situation and Lupin’s excuse wasn’t doing it for me.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: About being busy and all that.

Eric: There’s prep work to be done though. As we find out in Chapter 12.

Andrew: Like having to find a Boggart

Eric: In Chapter Twelve “The Patronus” he had to find a substitute for – for an actual Dementor which ends up being a Boggart and he’s also got to – the moon, I guess the full moon is coming up. That’s what I gathered. He’s about to go into hibernation I think…

Micah: Yeah.

Eric: …until after this next phase of the moon.

Micah: Yeah, as we find out in the next chapter, he’s absent from Christmas dinner. So I think that’s part of the reason why in this chapter he tells Harry it’s going to have to wait. And did we want to talk a little bit about the Dementors at all? I mean the way J.K. Rowling describes them?

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: It was a beautiful description.

Eric: Do you have Fantastic Beasts anywhere?

Micah: I don’t actually own one.

Eric: Oh, really? Because they’re in there. They’re described as being unnatural throughout – against nature and all that. And they’re really, like you say here, they’re very incredibly descripted about all this decay this despair they suck in. Very interesting creatures, very scary even for this early in the series.

Andrew: Well, we’ll talk about them a little bit more later on at least in my chapter and we can focus more on them and have a main discussion in the future if we want to. So, moving along, Christmas approaches and another visit to Hogsmeade is scheduled and Harry believes he’ll be stuck at Hogwarts alone again but to his surprise Fred and George introduce him to The Marauder’s Map.

Eric: Bing!

Andrew: Fred and George show him the best path to get to Hogsmeade, they leave and Harry heads off. And it’s interesting to see Harry be introduced to this item for the first time and of course we as readers are also being introduced to it. And I thought this was a very crucial part of the story as without going to Hogsmeade Harry would have never heard the story about Sirius. So this was one of those x-factors. So anyway Harry heads off and Jo makes the passage way between Hogwarts and Hogsmeade out to be very long, which makes sense as he has to get Hogsmeade from Hogwarts and Harry eventually has to climb a couple of hundred stairs to reach the end which sounds very difficult. I wonder why these paths were created in the first place, who would actually dig a path that long…

Eric: That’s a great question.

Andrew: …just to get to Hogsmeade?

Eric: Well, you can do it with magic though. You can dig with magic – you know what I’m saying? So it’s not exactly like it would be if it were the normal world and there were that long a tunnel. But, I mean especially in Deathly Hallows where we see – and we’ve known – this is one of the interesting points of reading Hogwarts, A History. Because it seems to be so closely tied with the nearby village. Hogsmeade itself is very important for being the – the wizard’s – all-wizard settlement in Britain. And at the same time it’s got all these secret passageways that go straight up to the school. And it was used for a goblin rebellion headquarters and all that. It’s so interesting to see Hogwarts being the safest place in the Wizarding World to hide something and have this – this town nearby. And they are just interlinked and I would love to know the history furthermore of – of why those tunnels built and also what relationship the school has to the town.

Micah: Maybe they had a period of prohibition…

[Eric and Micah laugh]

Micah: …just like the United States where they were doing all of this underground selling of alcohol from the bar…

Eric: To students.

Micah: …in Hogsmeade to everybody at Hogwarts, yeah.

Andrew: I bet Jo has a really cool answer for it. And it may be interesting to take in to consideration that this path ends up in Honeydukes. So maybe there was some illegal trading going on. Who knows?

Micah: I agree. I think there was.

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: Underground goat trading.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Andrew: So moving along, luckily for Harry, Ron and Hermione are there at Honeydukes where the passageway ends when he arrives. They are stunned, but Hermione’s main concern is Harry being seen. And this of course is a big difference because Harry has the Cloak and he doesn’t even go through this path in the movie – down this path in the movie.

Eric: You’re saying he has the cloak in the movie but not in the book?

Andrew: Right. So frankly, I mean Harry should have brought along the Invisibilty Cloak in the book. I mean that could have made much more sense and I wonder why Jo didn’t write that into the book. It just seems…

Micah: He’s a risk taker.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: Yeah I know, but even with the Invisibilty Cloak it’s a risk.

Micah: Yeah that’s true.

Andrew: It just seems too convenient for nobody to stop him…

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: … when he’s walking around in Hogsmeade.

Micah: Well, how many people outside of say Ron, Hermione and some of the professors know that Harry is not supposed to be there? I mean to the average classmate they probably don’t think anything of it.

Eric: That question feeds directly into a point I want to make in my chapter – the thing too that you said Micah. So I’m going to remember that.

Andrew: So moving along the trio head to the Three Broomsticks. Harry’s just there, whatever. Unfortunately shortly after sitting down, of course as luck would have it, Hagrid, McGonagall, Flitwick, and Fudge all come in for drinks as well. Harry hides under the table and Hermione moves a Christmas tree in front of them so they, primarily Harry, are not seen. So this is where things get crucial. While speaking to Madam Rosmerta about the Dementors, Fudge reveals that he had met some of the Dementors, and as MuggleNet staff member Noah pointed out to us in an e-mail, how exactly did they meet? Did they talk? Do they have their own language? Do they have sign language? What do Dementors sound like?

Micah: Darth Vader.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: Do they speak in a language like the Navi do in Avatar?

Eric: I’m sure.

[Andrew makes clicking noises]

Andrew: I bet they have their own cool language and Fudge can speak it too. [speaks gibberish]

[Eric laughs]

Micah: Isn’t there a similar scene where it mentions Dumbledore talking to them as well? Maybe it’s earlier on…

Eric: That’s the mermaids dude.

Micah: I thought it was earlier on in this book when he removes them from the Quidditch pitch but maybe I’m wrong.

Eric: Oh.

Andrew: Oh Dumbledore?

Micah: Yeah I would assume Dumbledore does speak to them as well if Fudge can, because Fudge isn’t a very smart guy and…

Andrew: Yeah he says – Dumbledore does say that he – we know that Dumbledore was very angry at them. And he had to do something.

Eric: I mean things like when Hagrid gets out of Azkaban in Book 2 they send release papers and so there’s got to be somebody, if not a Dementor at Azkaban, administrating to say, “You have to release this person.” And for the Dementors to comply. It’s interesting because the – the Dementors have this person here they can communicate and they have an agenda as is described by Lupin to Harry later on, that they have their own ideas and feelings and they genuinely want to cause devastation and suck certain people’s souls out.

Micah: Yeah

Eric: They appear definitely and you’re right Dumbledore does talk to them and establishes some ground rules that they can’t come onto the campus they have to stay at the edges. That’s a big deal. So they talk but it’s not really described.

Micah: Yeah, something else that Noah brought up that I thought was kind of interesting, referring to the Dementors. The trust that the Wizarding World puts in them – these foul creatures that walk the earth and what does that say about – as long as they serve their purpose. I mean these were people that, not people, creatures that had served the darkest wizard that ever existed and yet as long as they’re serving their purpose in guarding Azkaban the wizards seem to turn sort of a blind eye to what these creatures actually are and what they do. I don’t know if that was kind of a parallel to stuff that goes on in, our world.

Andrew: Yeah…

Eric: It’s very interesting…

Andrew: I wonder if the Dementors spoke like a donkey or something. [makes donkey noise]

[Prolonged silence]

Andrew: No? I’ll cut that out.

Eric: Just keep going. Just keep guessing.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Don’t cut it out, I’m thoroughly enjoying it. You have to…

Andrew: Speak like cows?

Micah: Every once and a while just keep coming up with different ways Dementors could speak throughout the show, just randomly interject.

Andrew: Dumbledore’s like, “You all must leave,” and they’re like, “Moo.”

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: That’s trying too hard I think.

Micah: Yeah…

Andrew: So anyway, to wrap up this chapter, things start to get deep and this is nothing to joke around about. Long story short, as we all know Sirius is Harry’s godfather and they believe being, Hagrid, McGonagall, Flitwick and Fudge, that Sirius betrayed Harry’s parents and this is a real bombshell, and we also learn how the Secret-Keeper enchantment works. Does anyone remember their reaction the first time they read this? I mean, just like the trio I believed it and interestingly we never hear why the teachers think Sirius is trying to get into Hogwarts. Is it just simply that they think Sirius wants to kill Harry?

Eric: What do you mean?

Andrew: Why do the teachers think that Sirius is breaking into the school, or wants to break into Hogwarts.

Eric: Well, remember Fudge over heard Sirius Black saying, “He’s at Hogwarts. He’s at Hogwarts,” I mean that’s what the whole thing is based on.

Andrew: Great but, does he want to kill Harry? They think he wants to kill Harry, right?

Eric: Well, I’m sure that nothing good can come of Sirius getting Harry. Either he wants to kill him or he wants to take him back to Voldemort. It’s kind of a no-win.

Andrew: What did you guys make of this whole big thing that we learnt. This was a very deep story that we hear, it’s several pages long. I think this is one of the first times in the series that we get such a deep story…

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: A serious story.

Eric: Honestly, I think this passage is probably why it’s my favorite book. Just because it’s such back story but it’s also – we find – we’re kind of being misled in a way. We get this huge story that obviously isn’t even – I mean the good part about it is, is that it’s not all it appears to be. There’s actually more to the story than even this.

Andrew: Yeah, yeah.

Eric: So we’ve been operating this far with no story. We get this story, and then – even better – it actually works out even better with Sirius being innocent in the end, and that’s just – that’s why I like this book.

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah, my favorite scenes are always involving the teachers, like group teacher discussions, and that’s why one of my favorite scenes in Prisoner of Azkaban the movie is in the Shrieking Shack, when we see Sirius and Lupin and Snape, and they’re all talking to each other. It’s really interesting.

Eric: Too short, though.

Andrew: I was – yeah, it was too short, but what do you expect? I mean, remember leaning off my seat and leaning in to the screen – I was getting so into it. I was like, “This is amazing! All these fantastic English actors!” And it’s a shame they didn’t have this part in the movie.

Eric: While watching that Shrieking Shack scene in theaters the first time, I had next to me a Remus/Sirius shipper, and she was just – she squealed really loudly…

Andrew: [laughs] I bet.

Eric: When Snape made that comment, “Oh, you two are bickering like an old married couple.”

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: I actually didn’t – which is in the movie – I actually didn’t hear the rest of the scene, so it was just a funny memory.

Micah: Well, this scene is in the movie, it’s just changed up a little bit. It’s…

Andrew: It’s dumbed down. Hagrid’s not there.

Micah: That’s true. Madam Rosmerta is there.

Eric: [laughs] Hagrid makes that scene.

Micah: Well, and this was probably leading up to one of the worst acting jobs ever done by Dan Radcliffe [laughs] in the Harry Potter series. With the…

Eric: Oh, come on!

Andrew: When he’s crying in the snow?

Eric: Oh come on Micah. That’s not fair!

Micah: “He was their friend.”

Eric: That’s a low shot.

Micah: Too bad James…

Andrew: “He was their friend!”

Eric: That was a low blow. I blame the director completely for that. I liked…

Micah: For keeping it in?

Eric: [laughs] No, I mean, that whole – that whole time in the filming of the series, Alfonso had influenced Dan so much. Dan had so many – he had all those new bands. Remember like every interview, he had a new favorite band that was all hardcore and punk? And I think that was just a tough time in Dan’s life.

Micah: He was thinking about the Whomping Willow killing another bird.

Eric: It’s too easy – it’s too easy to attack Dan for that scene. I think – I mean, it’s a little off, but I just – I get upset when people attack Dan for that scene.

Chapter-by-Chapter: “The Firebolt”

Andrew: Okay, let’s move on now to Chapter 11, “The Firebolt”.

Micah: All right, so Chapter 11, “The Firebolt,” starts off with Harry asking the question we have been asking all book long: Why had nobody ever told him about Sirius Black? And then he starts listing people: Dumbledore, Hagrid, Mr. Weasley, Cornelius Fudge. And this is really, I think, where it starts to turn in the series where Harry really starts to get aggravated about not being given enough information. What do you guys think?

Eric: That’s a good point to look at this and say, hey this is kind of where it starts of Harry saying, “Wait a minute, these people who I’ve trusted haven’t told me all that I should have needed to know.”

Andrew: Again, [laughs] I think they’re still scared. They still believe what’s best for Harry is not telling him anything which I don’t know if that’s an immature decision or a mature decision, because keep in mind, he is only thirteen, and I think we forget that a lot.

Micah: Well, now this really brings about the justification for what Mr. Weasley said about not going looking for Sirius Black, and maybe that was the fear, that if he found out the truth, he would want to kill him, which is really how Harry does feel in the end once he learns this information, but he learns it anyway. I mean, I don’t know – I just felt – I’ve always felt throughout this entire book that it was wrong that he was never told this information from the start, because what they’re trying to prevent inevitably ends up happening anyway.

Eric: Well, one of the reasons Dumbledore gives to Harry later is that – I think it was Dumbledore – that when Harry first arrived at Hogwarts when he was eleven, people suspected that he could have actually been a dark wizard, because I mean, all they know of Harry before he gets – he actually gets to Hogwarts is that he was more powerful than Voldemort for some reason. Dumbledore knows the real reason, but I just can’t help but think that some of these things about them not telling Harry stuff in the early books is possibly more – they don’t actually know him, and maybe they’re not discounting that Harry might have some secret dark power and really go the way of Voldemort if he has too much anger, turn to the dark side, all sorts of stuff.

Micah: Yeah. And speaking of that anger, he goes up to the dorm room. He wants to be alone once he gets back from Hogsmeade and he starts going through the photo album of pictures that Hagrid had given to him and he looks at the wedding photo and he finds Sirius and as soon as he sees him the quote is, “A hatred such as he had never known before was coursing through Harry like poison.” And this, I wanted to know what you guys think, is it a connection to Voldemort at work? Even though Voldemort has not fully returned to power, is it the Horcrux that’s inside Harry starting to react? And we see how that Horcrux, the locket, has an effect on the trio when they’re in the forest. It makes them really agitated and angry towards each other. So is this Harry’s Horcrux at work?

Andrew: I don’t think so. I think this is just a really clever way of Jo explaining – trying to describe Harry’s feelings. Because in all fairness, how does Harry know what poison feels like?

Eric: Well yeah, it’s Jo. But knowing that Harry has had part of Voldemort’s soul now with him this whole time later, later, it’s easy to say, “Hey, is this a reference to the Horcrux?” But I think that is actually Harry’s own…

Micah: Emotion.

Eric: Emotion. His own thought, yeah. Less than – but it’s clever to think that it could be…

Andrew: Yeah, it is.

Eric: But at the same time, I think it’s too early for that to be into play.

Micah: Okay.

Eric: I think that’s actually how Harry’s feeling.

Andrew: Good theory though, Micah.

Eric: And it’s discounting – if it is the Horcrux, it kind of cheapens what Harry’s feeling.

Micah: Yeah. Well yeah, because you’re talking about the person that’s responsible for his parents’ deaths, he could naturally be feeling this way. And then, going through all this emotion, Harry realizes that Draco is in fact aware of what Sirius had done to the Potters. And he references what Draco said earlier on in the book, “If it was me, I’d hunt him down myself. I’d want revenge.” And this takes place in a conversation later on between Ron, Hermione and Harry. And of course Ron goes on to mention that his father told him about Pettigrew because they were talking about just how dangerous Sirius Black was and that all that was left of him was a finger. And I wanted to know, how is it possible that Ron heard this story about Peter Pettigrew but doesn’t know anything about Sirius Black?

Eric: Now what do you mean “doesn’t know anything”?

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: Well, he knows that he’s responsible for killing Pettigrew…

Eric: Okay.

Micah: …but it would lead one to believe that he would have heard why he killed Peter Pettigrew. [laughs]

Eric: Oh, not at all. No, Fudge says in the previous chapter that nobody really knows about the “Secret-Keeper” thing.

Andrew: Yeah. And also, again, Ron’s dad could have been purposely leaving out information to avoid scaring them or anything.

Eric: If he knows Sirius is responsible for Pettigrew and they only found the finger, then that’s all you need to know really, why he did it. I can see what you’re asking, why he did it. Maybe there’s like a folk song about Peter Pettigrew, like, [sings] “All that was left was his finger!”

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Eric: It’s a cautionary tale and the kids know it…

Micah: Right.

Eric: …and that’s why they’re able to know all about Pettigrew and not about Sirius Black.

Andrew: Do you guys think that Harry felt motivated to go after Draco – to go after Sirius because of what Draco said? Like part of him also wanted to prove to Draco that he could do it…?

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: …he could go after Sirius and try to kill him?

Eric: Definitely.

Micah: Yeah, yeah. That kind of goes into the next point. Because there’s this really, what I consider annoying sequence between Harry and Hermione with her pleading him not to go looking for or thinking about killing Black. And I think sometimes she’s a little bit too old for her age. Because wouldn’t Harry – and this goes back to what we were talking about when he was looking at the photo – wouldn’t he naturally feel this way, even if he’s not going to act upon it? The feeling is going to be there regardless, so I think Hermione is being a little bit too overbearing in this situation. Harry should feel this way, I think it’s only natural.

Eric: Hmmm.

Andrew: Yeah, but I think also, just from a writing standpoint, there needs to be this balance between Harry, who really wants to go after him and then – I think it’s interesting to read it. You find it annoying, but I guess it is sort of interesting to see someone being the reasonable person here saying, “Don’t go after him, it’s dangerous.” And yes, it can get annoying to see Hermione care so much, but it’s in her character.

Micah: Yeah.

Eric: And well, just to let him know he has options and has friends who care about him enough.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: It’s probably worlds of difference there for when he does decide to go after Black, or even after the Horcruxes, that they’re able to calm him down.

Micah: Right, well I have to play devil’s advocate, so that’s all I’m doing.

Andrew: Yeah. No, I hear you.

Eric: Yeah, yeah.

Micah: But – and then what happens is they decide to go visit Hagrid, which is not a popular decision by Hermione, but they go and do it anyway. And part of the reason why Harry – or the entire reason why Harry wants to go there is because he wants to ask Hagrid why Hagrid never mentioned anything to him about Sirius. When they get there, they learn about Buckbeak and that he’s facing this inquisition and trial for his attack on Draco Malfoy. Hagrid is extremely upset and Harry decides that it’s better not to bring up the topic of Sirius Black. So I was wondering, what does this say about his character? We just talked about Hermione a little bit, but what does it say about Harry’s character? If despite all that he’s going through emotionally, he’s still willing to kind of put aside his feelings to deal with something that’s important to Hagrid.

Andrew: Well, that wasn’t his first intention. Wasn’t Harry’s first intention to go in there and be like, “Hagrid, why didn’t you tell me about this? What’s the deal?”

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: His first intention was to be mean.

Eric: I think when he got there, too – Hagrid’s in this state, nobody likes a blubbering oaf, or a blubbering humdinger or whatever. They just have to take care of Hagrid’s mess and I think it drives – I mean, yeah, it says something to Harry’s character, but he knows which battles to pick, when to press an issue.

Micah: Right.

Eric: And that’s important later, I guess.

Micah: Right. So during this time at Hagrid’s hut, we learn a lot about Azkaban and his time there and that he never wants to go back and that the trio also agree to do research for Buckbeak’s upcoming trial.

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: So we move onto Christmas and the big story/plotline that is completely left out until the end of the movie arrives. And that’s Harry gets this mysterious Firebolt on Christmas morning, and Ron goes through a list of people it could have possibly come from, including Lupin – Dumbledore was the first suggested and then Lupin. We also learn that Lupin was not in the hospital wing despite being ill during Harry’s match. So I think we’re starting to realize, as we have with past Defense Against the Dark Arts teachers, that something is up with Lupin. Now had any of you guys…

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: …figured out – I mean I know it was a while ago – by this point that he’s a werewolf?

Eric: No.

Andrew: Well, I mean there were – yeah, I guess not.

Micah: There’s a lot of clues. I feel like his actions at this point…

Eric: His name means “of the moon,” you know.

[Andrew laughs]

Andrew: Yeah, but I certainly wasn’t smart enough back then to be reading into names of characters. [laughs]

Eric: Yeah, but I mean – I think with this chapter, both the Lupin subplot and the Buckbeak subplot, it’s at this point where you say, “I realize that this kind of thing – that it’s actually important that it’s still going and that it’s going to pay off somehow by the end of the book.”

Micah: Yeah, it’s mentioned so randomly and in such passing – like it’s Christmas morning and the big thing is that Harry gets this Firebolt but also Ron mentions that during the Quidditch match Lupin wasn’t there…

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: …and – or sorry – when he was serving his detention cleaning out toilets in the hospital wing, Lupin wasn’t in there. So you start to realize that something is up with him, but that’s just kind of like a small point in passing. You know, it’s like these little things that are – you would pass over otherwise, I think.

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: So again, it is Christmas morning and what would Christmas morning be without a fight between Crookshanks and Scabbers? And I don’t know what round it is, I’ve lost track. They go at it again.

Andrew: It’s four.

Micah: It’s four? Okay.

Eric: It was four last week.

Micah: Ron…

[Everybody laughs]

Andrew: It’s five!

Micah: …tries to kick Crookshanks – hopefully PETA is not listening or anything like that – and in the process he kicks the trunk – Harry’s trunk. It falls over and out pops the Sneakoscope, and it starts going absolutely crazy. Now does nobody find it odd that this is the second time now that the Sneakoscope has gone off around Scabbers? I mean, I know that there’s a lot in that room but…

Eric: Yeah, this is people not trusting their magical devices.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: The Sneakoscope is described as being broken, you know. I mean, isn’t it this random tricky bit of gizmo, the Sneakoscope, to begin with? So it goes off – and it’s wonderful for Jo to have fun with this, even in Book Four a lot, have this Sneakoscope be going off randomly and it always means something but the characters don’t take a time – and never take time to see why it’s going off.

Micah: Right.

Eric: Like they’re not going to – they’re not going to grab it and hold it up to certain people and see if it goes off and finally get to Scabbers and say, “There’s something up with this Scabbers.”

Micah: Yeah.

Eric: But they should!

Micah: It’s one of those small plot pieces that again, it’s just overlooked probably when you’re reading through the first time and then you go back are you’re like, “Oh! Now that makes sense.” And…

Eric: Yeah. Yeah, very cool.

Micah: So we see Scabbers – or Harry does for the first time in a long time, and he appears very skinny with patches of fur seeming to have fallen out. Harry “couldn’t help feeling that unless Scabbers had powers he had never revealed, he was reaching the end of his life.” So I guess there’s a bit of irony there, a bit of foreshadowing…

Andrew: Of course.

Micah: And you know, just kind of J.K. Rowling working her magic. [laughs] Anyway…

Andrew: “Working her magic.”

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: With a pen.

Micah: So my favorite part of Christmas, dinner, arrives and – now the trio go down for dinner and there’s a little bit of humor here because Dumbledore – I guess it’s called a cracker. I’ve never – it must be a British term. It must be a…

Eric: I asked Jamie about this last week, remember?

Micah: And what did he say? I honestly don’t remember.

Eric: He – yeah, he said that they’re like – they’re like Cracker Jack boxes.

Micah: Oh!

Eric: I mean, he didn’t make that comparison but it’s like the little prizes that you get. So apparently, I mean, they’re called crackers and they make a cracking sound. But I think they’re actually crackers too, like…

Andrew: Hmmm…

Eric: …like crackers that crack and make a – I don’t know. But I did ask him, because I knew this scene was coming up and he said “Yeah, there are prizes within. It’s a British tradition. It’s a British confection that’s basically, you know, you pull them and they come apart.” I imagine it would be something like a fortune cookie or…

Micah: Gotcha.

Eric: …you know, like that.

Andrew: Interesting.

Micah: Okay. So out comes a witch’s hat topped with a stuffed vulture, because Dumbledore asks Snape, I guess, to make the cracker pop, or whatever, I don’t know what [laughs] the right term is.

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: But – and again everybody probably reading the book gets a good laugh at Snape’s expense because the trio remember what happened during Lupin’s lesson and what – with the Boggart. So now, in true Dumbledore fashion, he puts it on and wears it for the remainder of dinner.

Andrew: What a goofball! [laughs]

Micah: He is a goofball! Anyway – I don’t know, I just thought that was funny.

Andrew: You love that! [laughs]

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: You just spent three minutes on it.

Micah: It’s true Dumbledore – I mean, we haven’t – like you said, seen him for most of this book.

Andrew: Right.

Micah: But anyway. Now, the drunkard Trelawney arrives at Christmas dinner, and she’s at first reluctant to dine because, quote, “When thirteen dine together, the first to rise will be the first to die.”

Andrew: Yeah, this was really funny because she looked around the table and said, “No, I refuse to sit down because I will make thirteen.”

Eric: You know what guys, this just hit me. Dude, it’s – you’re going to love this – that it’s a Christ allegory, with the last supper. You know…

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Jesus and the twelve apostles and…

Andrew: Uh-huh.

Micah: Oh, interesting.

Eric: …then Jesus rises, and – or whatever, because he’s standing in Leo Da Vinci’s painting.

Andrew: Now we know that – in hindsight, we know that Trelawney’s stuff is B.S. because Harry and Ron are the first to rise, and of course it’s actually Dumbledore – who’s sitting at that table – who was the first to die, so..

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: Right. And it’s…

Andrew: Now Micah, you wrote down foreshadowing to…

Micah: Order of the Phoenix.

Andrew: Yeah, why is this…

Micah: Well, because of Sirius. When they dine in Grimmauld Place, I think they said there – the people counted it up, and there were thirteen at the table…

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: …and he was the first to rise.

Andrew: Oh, no!

Micah: So by…

Andrew: But that’s good.

Micah: So by Eric’s logic, Sirius is Jesus Christ. [laughs]

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Well, I said this time it’s a Christ allegory, next time it’s J.K. Rowling being true to Trelawney.

Micah: Oh, okay.

Andrew: Interesting foreshadowing there.

Eric: But again…

Micah: This is Trelawney, though. Some of her things don’t always come true right away or they may be a little bit off, but some of them are pretty spot on.

Andrew: You could also argue it’s coincidence, though. [laughs]

Micah: I don’t think anything is coincidence in this series.

Andrew: No, no, no.

Eric: That’s true.

Micah: But anyway, McGonagall for the first time – she really shows this strong bias that she has against another professor in the way she carries on the conversation with Trelawney. I want to know…

Andrew: But she did this with – last year – Lockhart too, didn’t she? With the sarcasm?

Micah: Yeah, you’re right.

Andrew: I think she did a little bit. Yeah.

Micah: It’s an interesting side of her character.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: I don’t like it.

Micah: You don’t?

Andrew: She’s too – she’s too prestigious for me. I don’t want to see her being all sarcastic.

Eric: Well, it’s interesting seeing her like that too, because her actions are called into question this whole time when she has Harry’s Firebolt. Like – especially in the next chapter, I have a few points about that…

Micah: Yeah.

Eric: …where they’re wondering what allegiance she has because they keep his Firebolt from him. But McGonagall in this chapter is again disrespecting Trelawney, and it’s really interesting because Harry and Hermione – in fact everybody, really, takes what McGonagall means to be pretty much true and acceptable. She’s the head of their house. They’re very loyal to her.

Micah: Yeah. Oh, so you’re saying because McGonagall…

Eric: Yes…

Micah: …thinks she’s a bit of a kook, Hermione thinks the same thing.

Eric: I think she’s definitely assisted by that. You know, if McGonagall really revered Trelawney, and if Trelawney weren’t such a kook, I think it’d be a different story entirely.

Micah: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So anyway, as I mentioned earlier we learned Lupin is missing again. And I think – you know Hermione is probably going through in her head the checklist of things. Because she’s already suspected Lupin of being a werewolf, and now when she hears about Dumbledore asking Snape if he’s brewed him his potion, I think it’s just another piece of confirmation. And then at the end of dinner, Hermione asks for a word with McGonagall. Ron thinks it’s to take more classes – ha, ha, ha – but we all know what happens. And Eric, this I guess kind of leads into your point with the Firebolt – and you know McGonagall ends up taking it away from Harry, because both of them think – McGonagall and Hermione do – that it came from Sirius Black. Now, moving away from the actual story part…

Eric: [laughs] I love what you’ve written here.

Micah: I – yeah, I wrote, “If I were thirteen I know I’d be pretty pissed at Hermione. Even though she’s looking out for Harry, sometimes she’s a little bit too much of a goody two-shoes.” I mean, this is like the cool thing – like if you got – I don’t know, say you played sports and you got a really cool basketball or a really cool football or cleats that made you run faster, and all a sudden – you got it Christmas morning and then all of a sudden Christmas night, somebody took them away from you.

Andrew: It should have went like this…

[Audio (Jim Dale)]: Not my…

Andrew: Firebolt!

[Audio (Jim Dale)]: …you bitch!

[Eric and Micah laugh]

Eric: See, that’s why there’s a pause in Jim Dale’s reading of it; so that you can insert your own noun into his…

Andrew: Yeah. [laughs]

Eric: Okay, I see that.

Andrew: Yeah. But yeah, I would have been upset too. But I mean, Hermione just cares. And they bring this up at the end when they get the Firebolt back. Harry and Ron are like, “You know, maybe we should thank Hermione, she was just looking out for us.”

Eric: Yeah, they do. I mean it’s kind of like reporting unattended baggage at the airport, though. You’re going out of your way for the good of everybody else. She’s just that kind of person.

Andrew: All right, let’s move on to Chapter 12, “The Patronus.”

MuggleCast 194 Transcript (continued)

Chapter-by-Chapter: “The Patronus”

Eric: Chapter 12, “The Patronus.” Okay so, Oliver Wood comes back, it’s the end of Christmas Break. And he kind of approaches Harry and starts to say, “Hey look, we really can’t have the same thing happen at the next Quidditch match that we had in the previous Quidditch match. It sounds almost for a minute like he’s trying to get Harry kicked off – like he’s going to try to replace him, because he says…

Andrew: Oh, yeah.

Eric: …”I’d hate to lose you as a seeker” and Harry is reminded – Harry remembers the promise that Lupin made, that after Christmas he could actually start practicing. So he tells Wood about that, and also Ron comes forward. Harry and Ron are furious with Hermione, and they tell Oliver Wood about the Firebolt. And Wood decides that he’s going to go talk to McGonagall because obviously there’s nothing wrong with it, and they need the Firebolt to win. So, this touches on what we said before, McGonagall kind of acts – Wood acts like McGonagall wouldn’t really want Gryffindor’s best interest at heart, and is obviously in line with Harry. What ends up happening is Oliver Wood acts as though it’s more important that the Firebolt is back in Gryffindor’s possession, for the team, than Harry’s well being. Which is obviously how Wood feels, but it’s kind of funny. The interesting thing is, Harry and Wood are talking and Wood asks him why she has the Firebolt and Harry says out loud to him that Sirius Black is – “It’s to protect me against Sirius Black, because they think Sirius Black sent it.” But I didn’t know at what point the rest of the world knew that Sirius Black was specifically after Harry. Because we just came from the Three Boomsticks, where…

Andrew: Right.

Eric: …they’re talking about this, and we talked about this just minutes ago.

Andrew: Well, I don’t think Oliver Wood cares. And I think that was Harry’s intention of telling him. Harry was so upset that his broom was taken, he doesn’t care who knows the actual reason why. And Oliver doesn’t really care why the broom was taken – he just wants Harry to play and he wants the Firebolt back.

Micah: Oh, okay.

Andrew: So Harry could have told him Voldemort was coming to the match tomorrow and Oliver would say, “I don’t care. Get the broom.”

Micah: Yeah, he’s one of those kids that’s always just passionate about the game – that’s all he cares about, is winning.

Andrew: He’s a typical – he was – he’s like Micah was in his college days, he was all about the sports – he didn’t care about anything else. About playing, about winning. Right Micah?

Eric: Is that true, Micah?

Micah: That’s right.

Andrew: I never knew you in college, but I assume you were like that.

[Eric laughs]

Micah: Yeah, I didn’t play any sports. I was just passionate about the teams that played for my school.

Andrew: Right.

Eric: Well that’s cool. You’ve got to be true to your school. Some other stuff happens during the chapter, and eventually Harry does follow up with Lupin. He reminds him after class, “Hey, you said you’d help me fight off Dementors.” So he actually – he does attend – Lupin says “How about next Thursday night in the History of Magic classroom?” So they go and Harry meets up with Lupin, and Lupin says that he’s solved the problem – instead of bringing an actual Dementor into the school that he’s actually found another Boggart. And this Boggart was – is said to be in Filch’s filing cabinet, which I thought was just really funny. Filch has enough to deal with, let alone a Boggart in his filing cabinet messing up – messing stuff around. But I wondered if Squibs can see Boggarts, because it just seems to me like Filch would have been attacked by this Boggart at some point if it was in his file cabinet.

Andrew: Yeah. Well maybe somebody else captured it and stuck it in the filing cabinet for him.

Eric: [laughs] That’s weird.

Andrew: Yeah, it is kind of weird.

Micah: Peeves.

Andrew: But then again, I’d assume another teacher would just put it somewhere else. So I think if it is in his room, then – in his filing cabinet – then yes, I think that answers the question.

Eric: What is Filch’s Boggart, too? If Filch had discovered this Boggart on his own, what do you think it would have turned into?

Andrew: A student out of line. No, I don’t – Dumbledore saying there’s no more rules. [laughs]

Eric: [laughs] That’s a good one.

Micah: Catnip.

Andrew: I don’t know. Catnip. [laughs].

Eric: So…

Andrew: A dead Crook – or a dead Mrs. Norris maybe.

Eric: No, I think catnip because Norris would be loving something more than she loved Filch.

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Eric: Unrequited love, Filch and his cat. So Harry does have a few rounds with this Dementor-Boggart. And it’s very interesting because this chapter is really about Harry and his own inner struggle. He needs to show complete mastery over his feelings. On one hand, he needs to concentrate on this happy thought. To conjure a Patronus, it has to be this solid, happy thought, he has to be clear of mind in order to make a Patronus that’s going to fight off Dementors worth a damn. Then on the other hand, when faced with a Dementor, he’s hearing the dying words of his mother and father, which he’s never heard. I mean he was an infant, he doesn’t remember his parent’s voices, and he’s hearing them for the first time and he actually – it said he wants to hear their voices and he almost doesn’t want to create a Patronus so that he can be closer to his parents’ voices. It’s a really deep and important theme and for Harry to realize that and have to deal with wanting to hear how his parents sound shows tremendous leaps and bounds. He’s doing this advanced magic with the Patronus, but he’s also doing advanced – he’s really growing up essentially, because he’s having to conjure this creation.

Andrew: Yeah, we see a deep inner struggle here. And it is interesting to watch Harry, I mean this is a real mature moment of Harry where as Lupin notes, he’s practicing very advanced magic. So it was interesting to watch. Slowly more and more Eric, I’m seeing why this is your favorite book. This is a very big development book for Harry.

Eric: Yeah. I caught too, and later he’s – I mean after class, we’re going to get into one more point in class – but after class he says to himself, “They’re dead,” you know, “They’re dead, and listening to echoes of them won’t bring them back.”

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: He says to – Which is very reminiscent of Book Seven, where he’s got the Resurrection Stone and it’s kind of the moral of the Three Brothers story that once something’s dead it’s not really natural, there’s nothing you can do to bring them back fully. It’s very interesting, this inner struggle of Harry. What’s interesting about in class is that when Harry tells Lupin that he heard James’ voice, Lupin tells him that they were friends in school and Harry is – fortunately, it doesn’t take weeks for a climax to happen. Harry realizes that, well, Sirius Black and James were friends, so Lupin must have known Sirius Black. So he asks him, and Lupin reacts really strangely and just says that he thought he knew Sirius Black.

Andrew: Mhm.

Eric: So that’s really interesting because here’s a recurring plot of that – that’s just forming of Lupin and Sirius and James all being at school together. You know, we’ve just gotten the Marauder’s Map two chapters ago, and it’s very interesting to see this plot forming. So it’s interesting because he also asks Lupin about the Dementors, and he – right before he leaves, after he kind of ruins things by talking about Sirius, he asks Lupin what’s under a Dementor’s hood and I have the quote from page 247, he says…

Andrew: What’s the quote!

Eric: “Well, the only people who really know are in no condition to tell us what’s under a Dementor’s cloak. You see, the Dementor lowers its hood only to use its last and worst weapon.” And Harry asks, “What’s that?” And he says, “‘they call it the Dementors’ Kiss,’ said Lupin with a slightly twisted smile. ‘It’s what Dementors do to those they wish to destroy utterly. I suppose there must be some kind of mouth under there because they clamp their jaws upon the mouth of the victim and – suck out his soul.'”

Andrew: Whoa.

Eric: This is interesting because we were just talking about Dementors as, you know, can they be communicated with? And Lupin is saying that they kiss people they wish to destroy utterly. So it’s like Dementors have their own – and they’re not really controllable, even by the Ministry. Because when they get to Sirius Black – or when they get to Barty Crouch, even before they’re authorized to they suck out his soul.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: You know, and so they – they kind of – they have their own agenda and opinions.

Micah: Yeah. Well, it brings up what we were talking about earlier though, with just the Ministry’s blind trust, or even the community as a whole’s blind trust in these creatures whose sole purpose is to, you know…

Eric: Create despair.

Micah: …feast on despair, and just – why would you just trust in these types of creatures if they’ve already betrayed you once…

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: …in the sense of following Voldemort and as long as they’re serving their purpose, it’s okay? To just…

Andrew: It’s not okay.

Eric: I don’t think it’s any question that they were going to join Voldemort if he ever rose again. I mean that’s what so weird about it. But the interesting thing about J.K.R. and how her books play out is that in – at the beginning of Book Five, when we think that two Dementors were outside Ministry control, and just went after Harry as part of a personal vendetta on their part, they’re actually – it’s interesting because we find out in the end that they were actually under the Ministry’s control still and that Umbridge sent them to – so these Dementors are used as these tools of despair and whether or not they are under Ministry control, they are horrible creatures to have around. And…

Micah: Right.

Eric: …certainly…

Andrew: Guys, you are depressing me.

Eric: [laughs] Okay.

Andrew: This needs to end.

Eric: Okay…

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: …then we’ve got to end it.

Andrew: Move along!

Eric: Happy moment!

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Harry gets his Firebolt back.

Andrew: Yay!

Eric: Yay! They couldn’t find anything wrong with it and it looks okay. That’s what Harry is mostly concerned about because at the end of the last chapter when Hermione says, “Oh, they’re going to strip it down,” and Harry is totally affronting. He is, like, “You’re going to make my Firebolt naked. It’s not…”

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: “…going to look the same.” He gets it back and it’s fine. And…

Andrew: And I think it’s – Jo describes his reaction as, it felt amazing to see it back. He was so – he was really happy for the first…

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: …time in days or something.

Eric: He’s so happy that he says…

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: …to Ron, “Look, Ron, okay, we have to resolve this with Hermione.” Just before they entered Gryffindor Tower, they encountered Neville and Sir Cadogan. And it turns out Neville has lost his list of passwords which he made – the password is weird. I don’t even remember what it is. It’s a weird password, so obviously it was kind of a smart thing to say, “Hey, look, Sir Cadogan, you need to tell me what the passwords are going to be. I’m going to write them down.” Obviously that comes into play later, not going to say anything else about that. But, they get into the Common Room, everybody is, like, “Ooh, a Firebolt! Shiny, shiny. Where did you get it?” and all that stuff. And Harry is about to make some progress with Hermione and he walks over to her, he asks her about her classes. But soon enough, Ron, who has gone up to the bedroom, I think to put the Firebolt away, comes down and he has got bed sheets that are bloody. And he screams, and he confronts Hermione and says, “Scabbers is gone and…”

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: “…look what I found.” And there are some ginger cat hairs that he throws at her feet.

[Andrew makes trumpet sound]

Eric: Rounds…

Micah: Round…

Eric: …five.

Micah: …five.

Eric: Six, yeah. I think it’s a K.O. and…

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: …Crookshanks has won at this point.

Andrew: And we’ll talk about this at the beginning of the next chapter. But again, this draws the parallel of Scabbers and Crookshanks, and Hermione and Ron. I mean, there are some similarities you can draw here, but we’ll talk about that…

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: …next week.

Eric: Yeah.

Quote Quiz

Andrew: It’s time now for Quote quiz, quiz, quiz, quiz. This, of course, is between Chapters 13 and 15. “‘That was quite some Patronus,’ said a voice in Harry’s ear.” Whose voice was it?!

Eric: Would it be anybody but Lupin’s?

Andrew: That would be correct. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. It’s quite hard to pick out quotes because…

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: …I could give you something really hard like, “You did?!”

[Micah laughs]

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: But…

Eric: That’s…

Andrew: …it has to be…

Eric: …really hard.

Listener Tweet: Lupin

Andrew:[laughs] somewhat descriptive. Okay, so we did ask you guys to send in your tweets pertaining to these chapters and we actually covered most of the questions you guys asked. Thank you to Michael Gonzalez, OneLastLaugh, sparklylulz for sending in a few that we discussed throughout this chapter. One we did not get to, Carlie Eades:

“Why do you think Lupin never checked up on Harry over the years? If my best friend died, I’d check on their kid occasionally.”

I think that’s a good point. Where was Lupin? Come on!

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: Some friend!

Eric: Could it be – I mean, we know Sirius was in Azkaban. Could it be that they just trust Dumbledore’s protection of Harry? Like, they don’t want to interfere with the Muggles raising him and protecting him, and all that?

Andrew: [sighs] I guess. I don’t know.

Micah: Yeah, I don’t know. I think part of it could be his condition and – but he’s obviously okay for how many other days out of the month. So, it’s a little bit weird that he has never looked in on Harry or maybe he just feels content getting updates from Dumbledore.

Eric: Well, why does Figg never show herself? She says that she couldn’t – Harry couldn’t have a happy time or the Dursleys wouldn’t want him to be there. Harry asks Mrs. Figg why she never comes out and says, “Hey, look, I’m part of this Wizarding World.” I wonder if Dumbledore forbid – I mean, as well – not in addition to Lupin having respect for Dumbledore, but that it would be Dumbledore’s wishes for Harry to not have contact with the wizard world at the very least until it’s time when he is eleven and going to Hogwarts. But after that happens, to not jeopardize – because part of the sole part of the protection on Privet Drive lies in Petunia Dursley’s allowing Harry to live there. And I guess maybe he thought that if…

Andrew: He didn’t need…

Eric: …people visited Harry, that it might – from the outside world, it might push that over the edge, maybe? So that…

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: He couldn’t be a proper pig for slaughter if he had all that interaction.

Andrew: [laugh] True.

Eric: Exactly. And we know that he was very – a Machiavellian character.

Favorites: Death Eater

Andrew: Okay, let’s play Favorites. And next week, we will – or next episode, Episode 195, we will cover Chapters 13 through 15. So, look forward to that. Read up, and send us your feedback about those chapters if you have any questions that we can address during the show. Time now to play Favorites. Favorite Death Eaters, guys. Favorite Death Eaters. We asked people to send in their feedback via Twitter what their favorite Death Eater is. Everybody almost unanimously said Bellatrix.

Eric: Ugh, ugh.

Andrew: But just to be different, I have to say Lucius Malfoy because Lucius – he is a father figure. His son is in Hogwarts and here he is being a Death Eater. I mean, it’s horrible. It’s sickening to me.

Eric: Particularly for his non-exit in Deathly Hallows, which we talked on in the beginning with Jason Isaacs maybe rewriting it. In Book Seven, the Malfoys are very – they have their son. Voldemort has taken his personal vendetta against Lucius to nearly trying to get Draco killed in Book Six. And in Book Seven, he is like a bad house guest. He crashes their manor, he hangs around, he kills old Hogwarts professors in front of them at the dinner table. They’re getting kind of sick of Voldemort. And they…

Micah: Right.

Eric: …really see that whatever reasons Lucius has had for joining the Death Eaters and being a Death Eater all these years is really called into question by Voldemort’s actions in Book Seven, and his continuous abuse of them. He outright insults their allegiance and all that in front of all the other Death Eaters throughout Book Seven. He really causes that part of it, but the Malfoys have to choose between Voldemort and their son, and they choose their son. And he is so…

Andrew: So…

Eric: …very…

Andrew: …is that your favorite Death Eater?

Eric: Well, no, just for what you were saying.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: I mean, we see how…

Andrew: Who is your favorite Death Eater?

Eric: Yaxley.

[Micah laughs]

Andrew: Yaxley?

Micah: Just because of the name?

Eric: The name, it’s…

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: How about you, Micah?

Micah: I would probably say Snape. I mean, he’s probably…

Andrew: Oh…

Micah: …forgotten…

Andrew: …yeah.

Micah: …in the Death Eater world. But, I mean…

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: …he was one for a very long time and did all that undercover business. So, yeah – I mean, I’d go with Snape. I mean, I think Bellatrix is kind of the easy pick because – and maybe we should have differentiated in the question because I know a lot of people picked Bellatrix particularly because of the actress who plays her.

[Eric sighs]

Micah: But, I don’t know. I mean, who are some of the other ones you could – I mean, looking at the tweets, Draco was one that people liked.

Eric: That’s a good point.

Andrew: Draco is a good one, yeah. And Bellatrix, of course.

Micah: Regulus.

Andrew: Bellatrix, Snape – yeah.

Eric: Regulus Black, there we go.

Andrew: If you want to be really different. [laughs]

Eric: [laughs] Yeah. The other Death Eaters – I mean, there is the father of Crabbe and Goyle. I mean, that’s kind of random. The executioner is a Death Eater, I guess, right?

Andrew and



Micah: I can’t…

Eric: Which is…

Micah: …remember his name right now. I’m drawing a blank.

Eric: Weird.

The MuggleCasters’ Patronuses

Andrew: And real quickly, before we wrap up the show today, last week a lot of people were wondering what our Patronuses would be after we had answered what our Boggarts would be. So, I wanted to address that real quick. Me personally – mine? Oh God, I don’t know. I don’t know what it would be, but what I would want it to be is a little kitty cat. Because it would be so cool to be, like, “Expecto Patronum!” And a little kitty cat comes out of my wand.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: And it just – like, “Meow!” and it sort of sends its little paw up in the air, and the Death Eater goes away. An adorable little kitty cat would…

[Eric laughs]

Micah: Like Umbridge, huh?

Andrew: No.

Eric: Like one of…

Andrew: Well…

Eric: …Umbridge’s cats.

Andrew: …you mean one of her cats? Maybe, I guess.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: Or a puppy. How about you guys?

Micah: Oh, by the way, Eric, the name was Macnair.

Eric: Macnair, thank you. I was just looking it up. I was trying to find a list of Death Eaters.

Micah: Because he actually comes back in Order of the Phoenix too. He is part of the whole scene at the Ministry. I don’t know. I always think it would be interesting to hear what other people would think the Patronus would be. I don’t know.

Andrew: Everyone, write in with your ideas for Micah’s Patronus. I think…

Eric: And mine.

Andrew: …that might be interesting.

Eric: And mine. I think my Patronus…

Andrew: And you. [laughs]

Eric: …would probably just be a loudspeaker or something, and…

Andrew: [laughs] A loudspeaker?

Eric: Yeah, it would talk the Dementor away, you know.

Micah: Can it…

Andrew: Please step away…

Micah: …be an…

Andrew: …from me.

Micah: …inanimate object?

Andrew: Yeah, I think it has…

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: …to be an animal.

Eric: Okay, okay. If it had to be an animal, then I would say the yak.

[Prolonged silence]

Andrew: Wow.

Eric: It’s the…

Micah: [laughs] The yak.

Eric: …recurring theme.

Micah: Oh, that…

Andrew: You would be a…

Eric: The recurring theme here. Yeah, I’m the spieler. I would spieler the Dementor away. It’s an old nickname that I like to reprise every once in a while. We forgot about Barty Crouch, Jr. being a Death Eater.

Micah: I’d go with a lion.

Andrew: But…

Micah: I know…

Andrew: A lion?

Micah: …we’re mixing two different conversations here, but…

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: This is the most disarrayed conversation.

Eric: So, Aslan would come out of your wand?

Micah: Yeah, yeah. Like what, Aslan? I don’t know. No, it’s like – oh, we’re talking about Macnair, then we’re talking about yaks, then we’re talking about…

Andrew: Yeah. [laughs]

Micah: …Barty Crouch, Jr…

Andrew: It’s very confusing!

Micah: …then we’re talking about…

Eric: Yaks.

Micah: …lions.

Eric: And Yaxley, the Death Eater. But Barty Crouch, Jr. was a Death Eater.

Andrew: That may go down as one of the most confusing conversations of MuggleCast history.

Micah: But yeah, that’s a good…

Andrew: It was, yeah.

Micah: …idea. People should send in what they think the hosts’ Patronuses would be.

Announcement: Community Outlets

Andrew: Yeah, send us a list. So, that just about does it for the show this week. It’s been another great show. A trio, the MuggleCast trio. [laughs] No, we don’t want to start that. We want to remind everybody about the MuggleCast website at It has all the information you need pertaining to this show. You can subscribe and review us on iTunes, you can follow us on Twitter, and you can become a fan of us on Facebook, all through the website. You’ll also find the MuggleCast Wall of Fame, where we have actually added a new inductee. And the new inductee is, of course, the parallels episode: Episode 114 from September 24, 2007. We have referenced it before, and I said we would add it to the Wall of Shame. Well, guess what? We did, and it’s there now…

Eric: You mean Wall of Fame.

Micah: Cool!

Andrew: …on And much more information there, so visit…

Micah: Like…

Andrew: …the site.

Announcement: Transcript Update

Micah: …transcripts.

Andrew: And the transcripts, yes.

Micah: Can I bring that up for a minute? Because we are at, I think, 189 episodes on the transcripts and we are working through the early 190’s. So, it’s great to finally be in the year 2010 and have transcripts from the year [laughs] 2010.

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: Because for a while, we were pretty far behind. I’ll take responsibility for all that being far behind. But for all the work that everybody has done, the whole team over there, they do a really great job. And it’s kind of one of those thankless positions where they don’t always get the recognition they deserve. And they really do work hard. The editors…

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: …and the transcribers, and everybody who is in charge over there. So really, thank you for that. And I know a lot of the listeners out there appreciate the work that you do.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: Absolutely.

Eric: And I do read the transcripts, and I will go back and I really enjoy them.

[Show music begins]

Eric: So, thank you to everybody who produces those.

Announcement: A Couple More Community Outlets

Andrew: Yeah. They are a great resource, and to think we have currently 189 transcripts is amazing. So, thank you to the staff there. That’s great. And while we are talking about the site, we also wanted to mention some other links that are on the site but we haven’t talked about lately: our FrapprMap and our Last.FM page. The FrapprMap is this really cool thing – there’s a link on on the right under “Community”. You can put a little pinpoint in our MuggleCast map, and it’s cool because you can see where all the listeners are listening from. So, check out the FrapprMap. You can actually easily access it by going to – – /MuggleCast. And finally, our Last.FM page. There’s a link under “Community” on as well. You can see what fellow MuggleCast fans are listening to, what kind of music they are into. And the top artist this week as decided upon [laughs] by MuggleCast listeners is Lady Gaga – [laughs] followed by Coldplay, Muse, The Beatles, Death Cab For Cutie. So, that’s a cool way to see what your fellow listeners are also listening to right now.

Eric: That is really cool.

Show Close

Andrew: Yeah. Neat thing. I’m going to hook my – I’m going to join the MuggleCast group and start using Last.FM so people can see what I’m listening to. The amount of Lady Gaga I listen to will push up that number. [laughs] So…

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: …she’ll probably stay at number one. Again,, all the information you need pertaining to the show. Thanks everyone so much for listening! It’s been another great episode. I’m Andrew Sims.

Eric: I am Eric Scull.

Micah: And I’m Micah Tannenbaum.

Andrew: We’ll see you next time for Episode 195. Buh-bye!

Eric: Bye!

Micah: Bye!

[Show music continues]

Blooper: Eric’s Dog

Eric: Next e-mail comes from Georgia-Kate from Bristol, United Kingdom:

“Hey, guys! I was recently listening to Episode 193. During the Chapter-by-Chapter review…”

[Dog barks, sound suddenly gets muted]

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Give me a second.

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Andrew: I like how you mute your mic. [laughs]

Blooper: Eric’s Dog Again

[Dog barks, sound gets muted again]

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Micah: Eric is beating…

Andrew: You don’t have…

Micah: …his poor dog.

Andrew: Yeah, I can’t figure out why else he would just mute his mic like that. [laughs]

Eric: Sorry.

Andrew: All right.