Transcript #244

MuggleCast 244 Transcript

Show Intro

[“Hedwig’s Theme” plays]

Micah: Because we don’t stop talking for two straight hours, this is MuggleCast Episode 244 for November 20th, 2011.

[Show music begins]

Micah: This week’s episode of MuggleCast is brought to you by, the internet’s leading provider of audiobooks with more than 100,000 downloadable titles across all types of literature, including fiction, non-fiction and periodicals. For a free audiobook of your choice, go to

[Show music continues]

Andrew: Welcome to MuggleCast’s big Deathly Hallows: Part 2 DVD commentary! We’ve never done a Harry Potter commentary before, so this is exciting. Eric, Micah and I are here, and how this works is you get to watch the movie along with us. And to start out, we have to sync up the film so everybody is watching the same exact thing, the same exact frames. So, the way we’re going to do that is ask you guys listening at home, put in your DVD – and it has to be the DVD version, by the way, it can’t be Blu-ray – and hit “Play” to start the movie. And once you see the water, the very first frame – once you see the water, press “Pause” and then we’ll tell you in a moment on “three” to press “Play”, okay?

Micah: Before we start the commentary, we’d like to remind you that today’s episode is brought to you by, the internet’s leading provider of audiobooks with more than 100,000 downloadable titles across all types of literature, and featuring audio versions of many New York Times bestsellers. For listeners of MuggleCast, Audible is offering a free audiobook so you can try out their amazing service. One audiobook to consider is A Game of Thrones, the first book in A Song of Ice and Fire series by author George R. R. Martin. In a land where summers can last decades and winters a lifetime, trouble is brewing. As the cold returns, sinister forces are massing beyond the protective Wall. To the south, the king’s powers are failing, with his most trusted advisor mysteriously dead and enemies emerging from the throne’s shadow. In this land of extremes, plots and counterplots, soldiers and sorcerers, each side fights to win the deadliest of conflicts: the game of thrones. Recently adapted into a television series by HBO, immerse yourself into the world of Westeros before Season 2 hits screens this March. So, why not get it for free and listen to it just like you do MuggleCast? To do so, or to grab any book of your choice, visit Again, that’s We thank Audible for supporting the show.

Andrew: So, on “three” – we’re assuming now you have it paused to the very first second that you see the water.

Eric: Paused to have it – yeah, very first second.

Andrew: Right. And then on “three” in a moment, press “Play”. So, one, two, three. Okay, everybody should be beginning now, yes?

Micah: Yes, very eerie music.

Andrew: Yeah. I need to put my headphones in, I just realized I haven’t done that. Oh, there’s the Jenga puzzle.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: And what we’ll be doing this whole time is just talking about the movie while it’s playing. Hopefully we have things to say about it or else [laughs] this is going to be a funny commentary.

Micah: Yeah, we’ve got to remember…

[Eric laughs]

Micah: …not to watch the movie and – just watch the movie.

Eric: Yeah.

Opening Montage

Andrew: So, everybody should be seeing the W.B. logo now, yes?

Micah: Yes.

Eric: Yes. So, let’s talk about this. This W.B. logo, kind of the unexpected character in all of these films. It always looks different, right? It grows with age.

Andrew: Yes.

Eric: I think in Half-Blood Prince, it was rusty. What is it this time?

Andrew: Well, it looks pretty put-together but it’s definitely very dark. It’s – I remember in the first film, I believe it was a bright W.B. logo.

Eric: Yeah. I think the second film, it was up in the sky. I think that was when they really started playing with it. It was above Little Whinging.

Andrew: Mhm.

Micah: And right now…

Andrew: This music…

Micah: Yeah, you’re hearing what David Yates spoke about in our interview, that woman that they flew in all the way from Japan.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: And it’s just beautiful, I love it so much. And that shot of Snape is so iconic. And didn’t he say just the other day that they were thinking of getting rid – or in the original script, they didn’t have Snape but then Yates insisted on it, I think.

Eric: Yeah, because he wanted to set Snape up as sort of one of the main characters of this act.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: But the other thing is if they didn’t open at Hogwarts – [laughs] the good thing about them opening at Hogwarts is that Harry Potter Part 1 – Deathly Hallows: Part 1 – doesn’t have any Hogwarts, so people have just gone – to doing a marathon, they have gone two and a half hours without Hogwarts. It’s so funny that they had to fit Hogwarts in the first few frames [laughs] of the second film because it’s just, like, “Ahhh, there it is…”

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: …you know? You just feel so – like you’re watching a Potter film again. So…

Andrew: And it was very clear that now Snape is in charge, so it was a good reminder as well.

Shell Cottage

Micah: So, now we’re at Shell Cottage. We just got a shot of Harry looking into the mirror, seeing Aberforth.

Andrew: Whenever I look back at this scene – whenever I watch this scene now, I think of all those paparazzi photos that came out of that when they were shooting…

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: …this exterior, and Bellatrix…

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: …was there and…

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: …Griphook.

[Prolonged silence]

Eric: Luna.

Andrew: I remember Evanna – I think at LeakyCon she was, like, “I have the first line of the film!” [laughs]

Eric: [laughs] Which was funny.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Also, it’s good to see Bill and Fleur.

Andrew: I love how their house has no – the ceiling is clear, you can see right through it. It’s just windows.

Eric: They have no privacy? [laughs]

Andrew: Yeah, at least that part of it.

[Prolonged silence]

Talk with Griphook

Eric: Harry is not in a good mood.

Andrew: Mhm.

Micah: Griphook looks like he is meditating a little bit here.

Andrew: I think he is, right? I mean, what the hell else…

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: …could he be doing?

[Eric laughs]

Micah: Sleeping.

Andrew: Oh.

Eric: [laughs] Yeah.

Andrew: Is that how they sleep? Like that?

Micah: Warwick Davis just passed out…

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: …mid-scene.

Eric: Yeah. They poked him beneath the camera and…

Andrew: Oh no…

Eric: …he sprang to life.

Andrew: …what’s my line again? Crap.

[Prolonged silence]

Eric: It’s – the interesting thing is that he’s still got his wound from Part 1. It’s just being consistent where Bellatrix slashed him with her dagger on his cheek.

Micah: I like the fact that they kept this line in, “You buried the elf?” because it showed kind of Harry’s personality and they tried to make that apparent that the goblin in the books was very surprised by the fact that he showed that kind of treatment towards a creature.

Eric: Yeah, yeah, because Griphook is all about the humans subjugating lower wizards and by all about him – I mean, all against – it’s one of the reasons that – maybe it’s the only reason that Griphook even helps Harry, which is very important. That line that they added, “It’s complicated,” what do you think about that? It kind of – I like that it sums it up really – it gets it accomplished.

Andrew: I got to be honest, I found this whole scene to feel very scripted.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: I don’t know. Just the way they’re trading off lines and – “It’s complicated,” thing, I know that usually got in a laugh with the audiences. I don’t know.

Micah: But…

Andrew: I wasn’t…

Eric: Yeah…

Andrew: …too big of a fan.

Eric: …I know what you mean because – I mean, doesn’t this sequence – it takes weeks in the book? Hallows and Horcruxes, and Griphook and Ollivander, and figuring this all out. But it’s very clear they’re at the beginning of the movie now because, like you said, things are very snappy.

Andrew: Mhm.

[Prolonged silence]

Eric: Definitely Warwick Davis – the makeup here and there are few special features not on the DVD but – that you can find about those prosthetics and stuff, and it’s just amazing.

Andrew: He loves…

Eric: Amazing process.

Andrew: …talking about it.

Eric: Yeah. Well, he has sit under it for four hours…

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: …like second skin.

Andrew: Yeah, I guess you may as well make it worthwhile.

[Prolonged silence]

Eric: Tries to tempt him with gold.

Andrew: Did Harry really think that was going to work? Was that in the book?

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: I’ll give you money.

Micah: He works at a bank, he can get gold whenever he wants.

Andrew: Right, yeah.

Eric: Right?

Micah: Even if it’s not his. I’ll borrow from this vault today.

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: Another vault the next.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: They’ll never know.

Eric: Is that what you think they do? [laughs]

Micah: Well, they’re not herding for money, I don’t think.

Eric: No, that’s true.

[Prolonged silence]

Talk with Ollivander

Andrew: This is a – this scene is purely for the audience to understand what’s going on, where the three are sitting there in the stairwell to – some little exposition for the viewers.

Eric: Yeah. And this is just interesting, Fleur is almost – I don’t know. I didn’t really get this. She’s upset that they’re being so pushy or something. She’s just, like, “He’s weak.”

Micah: He’s an…

Eric: “You shouldn’t…”

Micah: …old man though.

Andrew: Yeah, he looks…

Eric: Well – he is. Should they have – let’s talk about that. Should they have made him more spritely like he was in the first film? Or is he too old? Did they overdo it…

Andrew: No…

Eric: …for Ollivander?

Andrew: …I think – he’s stressed, he had to face Voldemort, I think he’s just weak. It’s kind of reflective of the film. You know how we were saying [laughs] the W.B. logo, it’s like that where he’s been through a lot in the past seven years.

Eric: Yeah, that’s true. It has been all seven years since we’ve seen him, so…

Andrew: Yeah. I mean, even the actor – I assume he’s still a healthy man, but…

Eric: That’s what it brings into question though and just, like, “Oh my God, poor Ollivander!” But yeah, the other interesting thing here – and it’s coming up when Harry says, “You’re lying,” about the Deathly Hallows. That’s just – that moment, [laughs] it’s…

Micah: Well, I thought this was a really crucial moment that people can miss if they weren’t necessarily paying attention where they’re talking about allegiance of Draco Malfoy’s wand and how it’s sort of…

Eric: Oh.

Micah: …changed over to Harry now.

Eric: Here I was not paying attention to that. [laughs] Yeah, it is important and – well, I mean, it’s important in the way that – honestly, you get the explanation at the end of the film so it’s not really that important. But it’s important for them to have put this in because it just shows again that they’re following the books.

[Prolonged silence]

Eric: [imitating Ollivander] “Those of us that have studied wandlore…”

Andrew: I was wondering – like with Griphook, I was wondering what Ollivander was doing before Harry walked in because Ollivander was just chilling there in the chair.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: Was he counting the shells on his…

Micah: Well, Fleur was in the room too.

Andrew: Oh, right.

Micah: I don’t know.

Andrew: Ooh.

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: A little TLC.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: [laughs] Whoa, whoa.

Micah: He is the wand-master.

Eric: Playing with the Veela, okay.

Andrew: All right, Micah.

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: Calm down.

Micah: All right, I’m done with the jokes for right now.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Micah: More later.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Yeah, more later.

Andrew: More to come…

Eric: So…

Andrew: …in the second hour.

Eric: God, if we still did the caption contest, this would be a caption about the starfish on the left talking to the seashell. He’ll be, like, “Hey! I got to be in this scene. Yeah! My family is so proud of me. How about you, seashell?” He’ll be, like, “You may not know this, but I was actually at the hut on the rock in Sorcerer’s Stone. So proud to be back.” Yeah, but just Dan’s acting – seeing how Dan’s acting has improved. He’s accusatory but he’s also sympathetic at the same time towards Ollivander. And Ollivander just says flat out, “He tortured me. Yeah, what are you going to do?” But the inner – [laughs] the inner jerk [laughs] is about to come out when Harry leaves, obviously, but just right now it’s so real. I was so glad that they got the Ollivander back because I think David Yates talked about that at some point too, about not getting John Hurt back. They said they really wanted to get the first actor to show – because it almost doesn’t work otherwise. Because you can get an old man, you can get a Hagrid-looking man, but unless it’s the original guy who looks so different…

Andrew: Mhm.

Eric: …you can’t – it’s not going to – it can’t resonate as well.

Andrew: Well, and it’s also kind of like the – it’s a testament to how epic these films are. And we’ve touched on it before how – they’ve really been able to keep every actor, they haven’t had to replace anybody. Of course, Richard Harris unfortunately because of this death and then, of course, Jamie Waylett because of his drug problems, he played Crabbe.

Eric: Drug and bomb problems.

Andrew: But other than that, nobody had to be replaced, nobody pulled out of the film saying, “Oh, I don’t want to do this anymore.” It just shows how much the actors and actresses truly cared about this series and wanted to see it through.

Micah: Yep. And this was actually…

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: What we’re watching right now on the beach, there was a deleted scene or two that helped explain things a little bit more to the audience. And what did you guys think? Would they have made more sense being in here?

Andrew: What was the scene? With the two-way mirror, I think? A little more…

Eric: So – yeah, first it was – actually there were – yeah, three mini-scenes because it was Bill Weasley and Fleur, Fleur gives Hermione the black clothing – just a black robe or black underwear that she has hidden away, gives it to Hermione to dress up as Bellatrix. Bill cautions Harry about doing a deal with a goblin. He says to Harry, “You got to really be careful how you worded it.” And then the next scene is Harry at Dobby’s grave, he’s looking into the mirror. Ron comes up, I think – or no, first it’s Luna, he just talks with Luna. Luna is kind of on her way back to school. Great line by Evanna Lynch, she says – or he says, “You know it won’t be the same that it was since you left?” and he’s referring to Hogwarts, and she says, “Neither will I.”

Andrew: I think it would have slowed it down a little bit.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: I mean – you know, “The pacing, the pacing.” [laughs]

Eric: Well…

Gringotts Break-in

Micah: And that quick scene we just saw right there, Warwick Davis actually talked to you, Eric, about being able to go under the Invisibility Cloak and how cool…

[Eric laughs]

Micah: …that was for him to…

Eric: He was happy because Griphook is a character, finally, that matters to the plot. And I think he said too, he’s enjoyed playing Professor Flitwick, he’s enjoyed playing other side characters, the choir director in the third film who was not Professor Flitwick at the time, they later molded the two characters. But characters who ultimately have no bearing on the main characters…

Micah: Right.

Eric: …and sort of the plot as it were, so I think it was rewarding for Warwick Davis, he said, to be in a kind of situation where you’re affecting the plot and also to ride under the Invisibility Cloak as you said…

Micah: Yeah.

Eric: …because [laughs] it’s a status symbol of sorts.

Micah: And this whole scene right here, they basically reconstructed Gringotts from the first film. And I think if you have a chance to watch the feature “The Goblins of Gringotts”, it really explains a lot about how they went about casting for this particular scene and all of the goblins that you do see in this particular shot, as well as when you spoke to David Yates he also mentioned how much work went into recreating the set.

Eric: Yeah, it’s one of the classic stories of how so much work goes into about four seconds on film. This seems a little bit longer than that, but just the idea – they actually had I think it’s forty-five sets of prosthetics, sixty actors total in this sequence. But about this scene and how it relates to the book, this is obviously very, very different in the book. In the book, doesn’t she present her wand? Because she has Bellatrix’s wand on hand.

Micah: Right, but – she does now because the scene we just saw with Ollivander, he checks and he says that it’s Bellatrix’s wand.

Eric: Yeah, but she doesn’t present it here and I think – isn’t the reason that – they know that the real Bellatrix has said that, “My wand has been stolen,” so if somebody does present the wand then they’ll know she’s an impostor.

Micah: Yeah.

Eric: Is that how that works?

Micah: I’m pretty sure…

Eric: Okay.

Micah: …you’re right. Now this is just…

Eric: Yeah, something like that. But…

Micah: …an awesome scene and it would make a really cool ride. Andrew, I know you’re pushing hard for this one.

Andrew: This is the ride right here! No, seriously. I mean, this is really what it’s going to be.

Eric: Yeah. They would have to dig for it though. It would just take…

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Andrew: I mean, they’re halfway there with that Poseidon’s Journey ride. I mean…

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: …all it practically needs is a new coat of paint.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: I mean, just kidding. They would have to actually knock out the building and everything, but…

Eric: You’re actually right though. They have – that’s like a cave, isn’t it?

Andrew: Yeah. And imagine the ending of the ride where you’re being chased by the dragon out of the cave, out of Gringotts. It’d be so cool.

Eric: I’m sold.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: I’m sold.

Andrew: You go through…

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: …the water. I mean, it would be a perfect interactive ride!

[Eric laughs]

Micah: You could drop right here.

Eric: [laughs] Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah, you fall.

Eric: [laughs] All your enchantments…

Andrew: You put your bag…

Eric: …are washed away, yeah. That should be how you get off the ride though. They just – the seats tilt forward.

Andrew: It would be cool if you had clankers, you pulled them out of some area of your seat and you had to shake them at the dragon. And then…

Eric: You need to get the dragon…

Andrew: …if you didn’t, it would burst fake fire on you or something.

[Eric laughs]

[Prolonged silence]

Eric: “Oh no, you look like you again.” Well, that was fun while it lasted.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Facial hair.

Andrew: I liked you better the other way.

Eric: The Final Frontier.

[Prolonged silence]

Eric: [imitating the goblin] “What are you lot doing down here?” [laughs] [normal voice] It’s funny because The Thief’s Downfall or whatever washes away enchantments but you can just go and shoot another spell, and start enchanting yourself again as soon as you land…

Andrew: Mhm.

Eric: …because obviously they Imperio him right away again.

[Prolonged silence]

Eric: Oh no! Griphook!

Gringotts Dragon

Micah: So, were you guys really looking forward to seeing the dragon in this film?

Andrew: Yeah. I mean, we weren’t surprised by it because we saw it beforehand but…

Micah: Now this would be…

Eric: Going back on the…

Micah: …one of the scenes though aside from the battle that would probably be showcased in terms of special effects, right? For, let’s say, the Oscars.

Eric: Yeah, David Yates drew attention to that too. He ranked it – well, the Gringotts – the upcoming scene inside the vault, even on the DVD, or the Blu-Ray I should say, in the documentary, they talk about how that was the most – or its “Maximum Movie Mode” where they say that was the most difficult scene in the entire film to actually pull off. They had the most meetings about the vault scene. But regarding the dragon, David Yates had said too that there was a whole team devoted to it, and I think also in “Maximum Movie Mode” you see there’s a particular moment where the dragon, when it finally escapes, has this breath of fresh air. And that realism, the idea that they – oh, it just really sold it for the audience.

Andrew: Yeah, we talked about that on 242 as well.

Eric: I remember too, the dragon – just going back through MuggleCast history, when we first saw it on the book cover…

Andrew: Yeah, the deluxe edition I think it was.

Eric: The deluxe edition book cover and we knew – we didn’t even know that there would be a dragon in the book, right? That was the first kind of…

Andrew: Yeah, yeah.

Eric: …”Oh, there’s a dragon in this book!”

Andrew: And then I remember somebody started looking it up, it may have been you, Eric. You may have been looking at dragons in the wizarding world.

Eric: Yeah, we wanted to identify it because – and I thought I settled on the Antipodean Opaleye. It’s an Australian dragon with obviously glazed-over eyes and we thought it was that because – I mean, it kind of matched the description in Fantastic Beasts and we know that J.K. Rowling wrote Fantastic Beasts with the rest of the series in mind, that there are characters, creatures that we meet later that were written in that book before the books were written. But however, what it ended up being, of course, was this Gringotts dragon which has glazed-over eyes but only because he spent his whole life underground, so it’s not an Antipodean Opaleye, it’s – who knows what kind of dragon it is.

Micah: Yeah, I think it was Episode 99 we spent – you, Laura and myself – probably over an hour analyzing that whole deluxe cover edition. I think it was one of the better episodes, it might actually be on the Wall of Fame. Or if it wasn’t 99, it was very close.

Eric: Mhm.

Andrew: I know 99 is on the Wall of Fame.

Eric: I think we should also talk for a second here because this is – [laughs] again…

Andrew: A book change.

Eric: …this is the scene that had – this is – well, it’s a book change. They don’t remain trapped in the vault and I don’t understand why Griphook betrays them here because that line is changed too. I…

Andrew: It’s a little twist, I think. It’s typical filmmaking. “Oh, they trusted – ” because remember Harry said just a few minutes – “Just get us into the vault. We’re trusting you, Griphook.”

Micah: Well, that’s where the key scene between Bill and Harry would have worked because the viewers would have been able to recognize, oh, Bill warned him about making sure you were very clear with the deal that you structured with Griphook in terms of, “Oh, I’ll get you into the vault but there’s no guarantee I’m going to get you out.”

Eric: I also think – and it’s unfortunate to me, this goblin here for about five seconds. But then I also think it’s setting it up because later we have to see Griphook dead, so maybe it just helps the audience not be very sympathetic about that. Because in the next scene – I mean, look at how – look at what being greedy, getting Godric Gryffindor’s sword really did for you, Griphook. Voldemort killed you all the same.

Dragon Flight

Micah: Yeah, in this scene – I thought we got a couple of e-mails about how people were disappointed because it was actually Ron’s plan to get on the dragon and they…

Eric: Right.

Micah: …made it Hermione’s in the movie…

Eric: It was…

Micah: …so it kind of – making Ron appear not as…

[Eric laughs]

Micah: …intellectual, I guess, as he comes across eventually in the last book.

Eric: Yeah, that’s exactly what the e-mails said and I remember that, and I just laughed.

Micah: And this is just…

Eric: I mean, not that it’s…

Micah: …awesome…

Eric: Oh God.

Micah: …from a special effects standpoint, watching the dragon climb out here. Jurassic Park, here we come.

[Andrew and Eric laugh, Eric makes trumpet noises]

Micah: Well, remember when the T-rex shows up and…

Eric: Yeah!

Micah: …you get…

Eric: And it’s…

Micah: …those tremors? It’s kind of like that.

Andrew: It’s exactly like that, yeah. It may…

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: …almost kind of be a reference to that.

Eric: I expected like a glass of water…

Andrew: [laughs] Yeah.

Eric: …but of course, the goblins don’t drink.

Andrew: Watching this during the test screening was not fun because it was very much not complete, so it was just bad. [laughs]

Eric: Oh, I loved that though, with the subtitles…

Andrew: Yeah, but…

Eric: …you know?

Micah: And here you go, here is this breath of fresh air.

Andrew: Here is the breath, yeah.

Eric: Yeah, where is it? Where is it?

Micah: We’re about to get it.

[Prolonged silence]

Andrew: Right there.

Micah: Ahhh, a hard day’s work.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Look at that, look at that.

Andrew: It’s a nice break.

Eric: It’s just panting, it’s just like…

Andrew: I’m glad they did that.

Eric: I made it. I made it halfway.

Andrew: See, you wouldn’t have gotten that if they didn’t split it into two films. That was a precious…

Micah: Aww man…

Andrew: …precious couple of extra seconds.

Micah: …all those people’s houses!

Andrew: [laughs] I know!

Micah: I hope they have dragon insurance.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: No repercussions. It’s sort of like when – in Chamber of Secrets when Ron and Harry are flying with the Ford Anglia and all the Muggles can see it, and there’s really no repercussions.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: Unless – did Snape say they had to wipe all the minds of all those people? Maybe, I don’t know.

Eric: Yeah. Well, speaking of dragon insurance, do you think they have to be notified that there is a dragon [laughs] in captivity nearby? All those shops? I mean, it’s Diagon Alley. I guess they probably figure, right? Dragon insurance, gosh.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Dragons are actually banned from the major populous – in the wizarding world, aren’t they? I mean, they’re kept – Charlie works with them, they’re kind of sheltered – or reservations for dragons. But on the whole, for obvious reasons, dragons are controlled, the population is very controlled by wizards. Oh man, this is – this reminded me of the locket strangling Harry in Part 1 because again he’s underwater and Voldemort has some kind of epiphany.

Micah: Well…

Andrew: I love this scene so much.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: The way they did the Horcrux, Voldemort’s P.O.’d scenes with Harry’s connection I just thought were so well done.

Micah: Yeah, and it gives you deeper insight into the one that’s at Hogwarts. But I like the change in the sense that Voldemort can feel when a Horcrux is being destroyed. I know that wasn’t the case in the book but I thought it worked really well for the movie.

Eric: It does work well in the film and I think even Harry’s little homing sensation, how he’s able to find the Horcrux essentially in the vault by hearing it, listening for the little [makes “psst” noises] – but at the same time then, it also helps sell the fact that the part where we’re eventually getting to where Harry is a Horcrux. And it’s one of those things that just – it was a choice that really worked, I think, for the film. It just really, really worked because it helped them – it helped the audience to kind of understand without a whole lot of explanation that Harry had an unusual connection with them.

Micah: I wonder how angry they were that they had to probably jump in some cold water just for this scene.

Eric: Actually, this is – this scene – they said in the “Maximum Movie Mode” this was filmed on one of the coldest days in one of the coldest seasons in the backlot of the studio, and that they actually did narrowly escape real hypothermia from filming this scene. And I think it was because of the way the camera is moving around and around and around. But yeah, they said that by far, of the two last films, this was probably the hardest shot to really do just because it was so cold. And they’re in England too, they’re not filming in Florida or Ecuador or South America like Breaking Dawn. But it’s just – you can imagine it’s so rough, they’re so cold. [laughs] Warwick Davis told a funny story here of Voldemort walking on this blood. Watching the film I’m just, like, “Oh my God.” Malfoy – Lucius Malfoy is so proper and look what Voldemort has done to his house with all this blood everywhere. But Warwick Davis told the story of how during filming, because there was so much blood on the hardwood floor, [laughs] Ralph Fiennes actually slipped once…

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: …and just completely fell over while filming that scene. But then David Yates has also said that they actually had to mop up a lot of that blood because it was too much for the ratings…

Andrew: [laughs] It was too much.

Eric: …they were going for, yeah.

Andrew: Too much blood!

Eric: You can always – the thing is though, you can always mop up some blood, right? Just get it all out there and then take it away later instead of trying to digitally put blood in that…

Arrival into Hogsmeade

Micah: You know they actually used the noise from Mandrakes for that alarm?

Andrew: Really?

Eric: Really?

Micah: No, I just…

Andrew: Look at all these…

Micah: …made that up.

Andrew: Oh.

[Micah laughs]

Eric: Oh damn.

Andrew: Got excited.

Eric: Really though?

Micah: It sounded like it though.

Eric: Is it called – what is it, the Caterwauling Charm? Or no?

Andrew: That’s the annoying sound charm.

[Eric laughs]

The Hog’s Head

Andrew: Okay, not a big fan of this scene. I wasn’t really in the book either because they just suddenly trust Aberforth right here. I don’t know. It seems very odd. There’s a little hesitation but they’re still letting the trio in and it’s – I know they’re in a desperate situation, but it just seemed like kind of a bad move.

Eric: Yeah. I mean, I think that the bad guys though, they shoot first, ask questions later, so for anybody…

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: …to acknowledge them, just be, like, “Come here, Potter. I take that…”

Micah: But again, tying it back to the deleted scene where Harry explains a little bit more to Ron about what he’s seeing in the mirror saying he swears that he sees Dumbledore, would help with this scene, I think, a little bit.

Eric: Yeah, because Hermione – when they get down the steps, Hermione says, “Oh, did you see him? He looks just like…”

Andrew: Yeah, that’s true.

Eric: Hey, the back of Hermione’s head. They actually managed to do a sequel for [laughs] Hermione’s – the back of her head. Her hair was braided in the reflection.

[Prolonged silence]

Eric: [imitating Aberforth] “You bloody fools.” [normal voice] He’s lecturing them.

Andrew: He looks so much like Michael Gambon. I was really impressed by that…

Eric: That’s the thing. He doesn’t…

Andrew: …because the real-life actor doesn’t look like him…

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: …at all.

Eric: No, he doesn’t.

Andrew: And they talk about that – I think there was a feature released on Harry Potter: The Quest, where Ciar·n Hinds talks about getting into that role and the amount of makeup, and how he was really impressed by how well they did, so…

Eric: Yeah, it’s also one of the focus points on the Blu-ray. There is basically, I think, three prosthetics he says. It’s – the forehead was the main thing but also the eyelids because Michael Gambon has the eyelids that are sort of heavier, very distinctive.

Andrew: Mhm.

Eric: Very distinctive.

Micah: Is Harry not hungry?

Eric: Yeah, I don’t understand this.

Andrew: He’s just angry.

Eric: Harry is a Horcrux. Even – he can’t starve, he doesn’t get hungry.

Micah: I like the…

Andrew: Well, I think what it’s saying is he’s in the middle of a mission right now. He doesn’t want to stop to take a break.

Micah: I like…

Eric: Yeah, maybe.

Micah: …the sarcasm here by Aberforth. “Nice job?”

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: “Easy?”

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Yeah, I like that line. I like that line a lot.

Micah: Now again, another deleted scene. I think it was the same dialogue but they were actually all at the table as opposed to…

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: …standing up.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Yeah, there is one line about Ariana, I think, that they added that was – it’s not in the final film but it’s – again, pacing. Still, I think most of the backstory does really – I feel like it comes through. I mean…

Andrew: Mmm.

Eric: …what’s important that Aberforth has a beef with Albus, you know?

Andrew: Yeah, and that’s definitely there but we know very little about Ariana.

Eric: Yeah. But I mean, even the books is vague about what exactly happened to Ariana. We just know that she was…

Andrew: Well – but we got that story. We got the story about the horsing around that was going on.

Eric: Yeah. And she was damaged, she was unable to control her power.

Andrew: Whenever I see – you can’t see it right now, but whenever I see the Butterbeer on the table there, you could see it at the beginning of this scene, I think of the Wizarding World park.

Eric: It’s true.

Andrew: I feel like it’s a subtle reference to the Wizarding World

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: …because it looks exactly like it…

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: …except for the mugs.

Eric: Well, what was it? I think – to be honest, I think they said that they had used one of the – when we did the theme park preview before it opened, Stuart Craig and them – we were told that they used the actual – the theme park Hog’s Head – to design the Hog’s Head in the film because…

Andrew: Oh, good.

Eric: …obviously they designed the theme park before they had to shoot the last film, so there probably are some really close comparisons you could draw, even though we had been in the Hog’s Head a couple of times before…

Micah: Yeah.

Eric: …in Movie 5.

Micah: I think you get good insight though into the relationship here when Aberforth says that Dumbledore – the other Dumbledore – sacrificed many things on his quest for power.

Eric: Yeah, it’s one of those lines that really, really covers all the basis there. We just – it’s a movie, we can’t get the final story so I was happy with that line.

Micah: Yeah, I think it just really summed it up for those people who are kind of looking for that backstory on Dumbledore to be in the movie. I think that kind of made it very clear what kind of a past he has had.

Eric: He’s got such a big portrait and such a little mirror next to it. Do you think he should just get a medium-sized portrait to have a little bit more space for a mirror? I mean, you got to groom yourself after all.

[Prolonged silence]

Eric: Never mind.

Andrew: What an analysis. Well, maybe he has a mirror somewhere else in the house. [laughs]

Eric: Yeah, maybe. I don’t know.

Entering Hogwarts Castle

Micah: This scene always got the biggest cheers, I thought, at least when we saw the movie in Orlando when Neville showed up.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: In the book, it’s a cheer moment though. I mean, it’s the scene where you put the book down and start clapping…

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: …because really Neville is just [laughs] this badass figure all of a sudden and he’s – I think in the books there’s more of that too, where Neville just – in the movie he just talked about one of his cuts or something. In the book I think he goes quite on about that where he’s, like, “Oh yeah, I got this here for doing this misdeed and got this over there, lasted for weeks, but I got her good.” It’s just kind of really, really badass. “Let’s have a bit of fun, shall we?”

Andrew: I’ve said before, I’ve never really been a fan of Neville and this film is no different. I don’t know why and I think it’s almost the way that Jo wrote it. And I’m sorry, I know that upsets a lot of people but it’s just, like, get out of the way. Who are you? [laughs]

Eric: What?

Andrew: I don’t know. Maybe it’s Matt Lewis. Something – I just can’t get over it.

Eric: Now one thing I can’t get over is the use of the original music in this scene. I hate it. I absolutely hate it.

Andrew: Oh, but it’s like Harry has returned to Hogwarts just like his first time. It was just as exciting.

Eric: I understand why they picked it but the movie to me is completely different now. Everybody has grown up. There should have been – I mean, if you’re talking about Alexandre Desplat and his score, which the filmmakers especially David Yates have been completely all about. I really don’t think there’s a whole lot of score in this film and – because a lot of it is the action. I understand it’s just like an editor’s job. If you can’t see it, that means you’ve done a good job. But the fact that they’ve chosen that moment to do the original John Williams [imitates “Hedwig’s Theme”] is just really kind of – for me, it just – it was a chance for this film to be different and instead it was trying to be the same.

Andrew: Hmm. I mean, I was hoping – and I think we all were hoping – to see some references to earlier films in this final film, the whole full circle thing, nice little…

Eric: But…

Andrew: …references to past films. I think that was…

Eric: I’m cool with them playing the music, but it sounds like they were playing the exact same track. The difference…

Andrew: Yeah, I see what you mean.

Eric: If he were to re-record…

Andrew: Mhm.

Eric: …that and do it with slightly different instruments maybe but also have it be the same theme, that would be one thing. Instead it really does just feel like it’s a scene from the second film.

Micah: But this was weird for me because Luna just all of a sudden is at Hogwarts when…

Eric: Is at Hogwarts.

Micah: …before she was at Shell Cottage and without that scene in there that’s part of the deleted features, it’s just…

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: “Well, how did you get from Shell Cottage to…”

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: That’s true.

Micah: “…Hogwarts?”

Eric: Yeah. I mean, I think the other thing that confuses too is in a couple of minutes when we see the rest of the Order is also in the castle, it’s, like, where did they come from? But it’s…

Micah: Well, you have that moment just when we were watching that scene where they go on the radio and they say, “Lightning has struck!” That’s the alert to the Order to come to Hogwarts.

Eric: Yeah. I think George…

Andrew: Which is – I’m glad they included that because we don’t get any of that in…

Eric: The actor George Harris who plays Kingsley Shacklebolt mentioned in one of the press conferences in Orlando that he really wanted to – or he thought it would be cool to be on the Potterwatch because Kingsley is, I think, one of the head leaders of Potterwatch when they’re in the forest, isn’t he? I forgot what they call him.

Andrew: Not sure.

Eric: But yeah, essentially I think they were talking about some of the scenes that were really cool moments for their characters.

[Prolonged silence]

Confrontation in the Great Hall

Eric: Gosh, Alan Rickman.

Andrew: He’s not centered! [laughs]

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: Under the…

Eric: Maybe in the…

Andrew: …Great Hall glass.

Eric: You’ve got to watch the fullscreen version if they still do the letterbox.

Andrew: I just think about the poor first-years who are here and have to go through this nonsense. They have no idea about Harry really or – they’re too young for this super dark stuff and Snape is yelling at these poor first-years.

Eric: Yeah. That’s the interesting thing is that…

Andrew: That’s not a film critic. It’s just like a…

Eric: No. Yeah, general mood critic as well.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Because I mean, why would you send your kids to Hogwarts if it’s the kind of situation where they’re teaching the Unforgivable Curses on the first-years? Not that there are a whole lot of other options for schooling your children in Britain, in wizard school. But I just think that this is very much a place you wouldn’t want to send anybody to. And we saw in previous films, previous books that parents were pulling their kids out of Hogwarts but that was due to something little like not trusting Dumbledore’s judgment. Here you have got full-blown Death Eaters running the school.

Micah: Well, what do you think it would have been like though, just talking about the cast to actually be in this scene and seeing Alan Rickman doing what he’s doing right now? You’d have to be pretty scared.

Andrew: [laughs] Yeah. I mean, those kids probably weren’t even acting, they were just legit scared.

Eric: [laughs] In “Maximum Movie Mode” of this film, David Yates just – they’re focusing on this scene and David Yates is just going on and on about how Alan Rickman’s delivery is really, really, really, really, really cool.

Andrew: In the test screening, that deleted scene where you see Harry join all the students before entering the Great Hall, that was in the test screening and I liked it because you knew kind of what was coming, whereas in this final version it was a shock, which on one hand is good for moviegoers but I kind of like knowing that Harry was in that group prior…

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: …to Snape’s speech.

Eric: Yeah, he has a costume change too where they’re in the Room of Requirement and he’s wearing his regular clothes, and now he has a robe over them.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: I think there was a scene on the staircase where they gave him somebody else’s robes to wear.

Andrew: So, let’s talk about this duel. J.K. Rowling said that in the script it was going to be Snape versus Harry, and then she saw it and she was, like, “Uh-uh, woman power!”

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: We need to go with what’s in the book here and that’s Snape versus McGonagall. Even though Harry is kind of involved in the duel. If McGonagall suddenly fell, Harry would have whipped out his wand and…

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: …taken care of Snape, but I was glad…

Eric: Well, she said it was…

Andrew: …that it was…

Eric: She said it was an early draft of the script, but yeah.

Micah: And even in the book, right, it’s McGonagall, Slughorn and Flitwick, I think. I could be wrong there with one of them but it’s the three of them who duel with Snape, and Snape bursts out one of the windows and flies away like a bat.

Andrew: Mhm.

Eric: If I recall, they’re in a hallway though too. It’s not…

Micah: Yeah, they’re not in the Great Hall.

Eric: They’re not in the Great Hall, far more condensed, far more actors – or sorry, professors – going against Snape but same deal. This is – now, many people don’t like this, how Voldemort is essentially – as a character is introduced by the screaming of innocent young girls. It’s so eerie but I also thought that this was not really something that was ever addressed by anybody. I never asked Yates about this or we never see them talk about how scary this is. Why do you think they intro-ed that? Do you guys like that or not?

Micah: I do.

Eric: Where they have the children screaming?

Micah: Well, not necessarily the children screaming but I think you get that brief moment of triumph where Snape is gone, but then all of a sudden it turns back to dark right away.

Andrew: Yeah, I didn’t – the screaming scares me every time…

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: …because it’s so sudden and high-pitched, and not expected. But I liked it. I thought it was kind of unclear at first if it was just Harry who could hear it or everyone, but I guess the screams are supposed to indicate that everyone can sense it.

Eric: Do you think they’re screaming – is it a pain because…

Andrew: Yeah, I would say so.

Eric: Because he’s like in their head.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Or something like maybe the two people out of a hundred can’t handle telepathy.

Andrew: [laughs] Exactly. No, I think that’s right.

Micah: Here’s a bit of a comic relief.

Eric: [laughs] “Students out of bed!” David Bradley, I’ll tell you. At the Home Entertainment Celebration, he was such a genuine guy, such a generous kind of kind…

Micah: He’s pretty good at karaoke from what I’ve heard too.

Eric: Yeah, yeah, I just – [laughs] I’m so happy that he’s a part of this.

Micah: Now why does he call her “mom”? Is that a British thing?

Andrew: Yeah, I think that’s a British – like ma’am.

Eric: I think the – also, isn’t it – in one of the James Bond movies, they call M, Judi Dench, “mom”. It’s just – it’s respect, it’s like…

Andrew: It’s like ma’am!

Eric: It’s like saying ma’am. Well, it’s like saying “mom” too in a way, I thought. But also like ma’am.

Andrew: I – this may seem obscure but I’ve always wondered – I want to know what went into designing Harry’s battle wardrobe because he’s wearing the same thing for, like, an hour, so…

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: …I’ve always wondered, did they design it with flexibility in mind with…

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: What made them decide Harry needs to wear corduroy, a sport jacket and then a T-shirt underneath? I know that sounds weird but…

Eric: That’s a lot of layers.

Andrew: …this is the most iconic scene probably in the franchise, this entire hour and – did heavy thinking go into designing his battlements wardrobe, you know? I don’t know.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: That’s really interesting to me for some reason.

Eric: Heavy thinking – well, it’s a Harry Potter film so heavy thinking went into everything. But I’m completely with you here. I mean, I never really thought about it but we’re actually watching him wear three layers [laughs]

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: …for, like, an hour and a half. And he has to – obviously he had to shoot in that for months and months and months and months. Yeah, who knows, right? I mean, who is to say that – I mean, since when are stripes the symbol of leadership either, you know? I think Matt Lewis was talking about finally getting to wear stripes, you know? [laughs]

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: And this is where Neville’s a BAMF. But…

MuggleCast 244 Transcript (continued)

Battle Preparations

Andrew: So, this scene with McGonagall on the front steps, I was there when they were filming it and I was so excited because it’s just McGonagall’s moment and seeing the statues come to life in a moment here is just so epic. I love the shot where the camera is on the ground, and you see the…

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: …statues just jump and land very firmly.

Eric: Now when you were watching them film it, could you hear what they were getting?

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Or…

Andrew: Yeah, because it was McGonagall and Julie Walters and Warwick Davis. And yeah, you could hear what they were saying. That whole background behind them where the bridge is, that was all special effects later on and obviously [laughs] the statues were added later on. But…

Eric: That’s a shame.

Micah: It’s another thing that they could showcase for special effects.

Andrew: What, the statues?

Micah: Yeah.

Eric: Interestingly, the giants – again “Maximum Movie Mode”. What do you want? I watched it.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: But they talk about the giants and how they were going to do them completely digital and settle to actually do some live capture for them. The special effects team, they are just so competent though, you know?

Micah: Yeah. And even right here. I mean, you look at them shooting out these spells to protect the school.

Andrew: Very cool with visual.

Eric: And all of it is digital, by the way. We’re not just talking about the bubble which is obviously digital. Hogwarts exteriors in this movie are all digital, completely all digital. It’s…

Andrew: Again, something else that was annoying to look at during the test screening [laughs] because it wasn’t done.

Eric: [laughs] We saw wire frames and grey, right?

Andrew: Yeah, and just – yeah, a bunch of nonsense.

Eric: Well, the captions helped. They really did, the subtitles.

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: Luna is about to lay the smack-down here.

Eric: This is probably my third favorite moment of the film. He’s just brushing her off, brushing her off, brushing her off. [poor imitation] “Harry Potter, you listen to me right now!” [laughs] He’s like, whoa.

Andrew: [laughs] I love the extras running around in the background.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: We must act urgent!

Eric: [laughs] We got to get out of here!

Andrew: Like where – oh, never mind. [laughs]

Eric: Yeah, I know. You’re right.

Andrew: It’s such mayhem. I always wonder, where are they running? [laughs] What are these people – where are they going in such a rush?

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: I mean, obviously they’re battling, but…

[Eric laughs]

[Prolonged silence]

Eric: Regarding that costume, Warwick Davis said the only thing that is actually his is his own chin.

[Andrew laughs]

[Prolonged silence]

The Grey Lady

Eric: The reason I don’t think that that worked with, “There’s not a person alive who’s seen it.” Cho was not giving a riddle when she said that, so it’s this big reveal. “Oh yeah, we’ve got to talk to someone who’s dead.” But I thought it was played off as though Cho were riddling somebody when she said that to begin with. But no, she wasn’t, you know?

Micah: Yeah, and…

Eric: It’s one of those things.

Micah: Well, this also ties back to the scene that they showed when they dropped into the water, and you got a look at the Grey Lady and the Ravenclaw banner, and now you’re finally…

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: …coming face-to-face with her.

Andrew: Played by Kelly Macdonald.

Eric: Where else can I see her, Andrew?

Andrew: Boardwalk Empire.

Eric: No kidding.

Andrew: And in…

Micah: Probably on the Internet too.

Andrew: …Disney/Pixar’s 2012 film, Brave.

Eric: Brave. Well, can I…

Andrew: She has the lead – she voices the lead girl.

Eric: I was going to say…

Andrew: It’s their first original film. It’s going to be really good, I think. First original film in a few years. But yeah, she was great in this scene.

Eric: The – they really played the backstory of the Grey Lady really well, I thought. There is still a little bit more in the book than there is in the film. The interesting thing about this – okay, when she goes off and she’s sort of floating in mid-air there, and she goes over there, somebody said something and I don’t remember where it was, but they said the reason they did that where she goes off – she’s not really, really, really levitating. The idea is that there once was a bridge there at Hogwarts that perhaps when she was alive…

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: …there would have been a bridge where she just went. So, even though we see her going out through the window over this huge gap which is, like, why wouldn’t she fall? The idea is that there is some kind of temporal displacement going on, where she’s kind of at Hogwarts in her time. And it just furthers the idea that these two separate plains of existence, separate realities are coming together. So, I thought that was awesome when I heard that. I was, like, oh my God, you know?

Micah: And this is…

Eric: You never…

Micah: …really now the first look we get at Voldemort outside of the cut scenes that we saw in the water and then obviously the film opening with him in Dumbledore’s tomb.

Andrew: Mhm.

Eric: Nick Moran, who plays Scabior, said that there were actually something like 3,500 actors for…

Andrew: Seriously?

Eric: [laughs] Yeah, for one of these sequences where they are running down the hill.

Micah: It’s the 4th of July!

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Eric: Cook some hot-dogs.

Micah: Did they…

Andrew: I wonder how they got so many – how Voldemort rounded up so many people.

Eric: Well, that was really the thing reading the books. Because in the books it’s a big deal that Voldemort is taking over because presumably his reign of terror is not restricted to England. But the tough thing is that these are books that are set in England. You almost can’t comprehend Voldemort taking over the whole world, right? Because again, he’s just one person and you think of the world being so amazingly big. So, in the film when you’re seeing these 3,500 people, it kind of I think helps sell it a little bit more because these people all turned out on one hillside to fight behind him.

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: The Grey Lady – this scene is just so intense. I felt really unsure that the Grey Lady was going to give Harry the information.

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: Or at least give a hint. You can tell…

Eric: And when she screams at him, yeah. It just completely…

Micah: I Google Image’d Kelly Macdonald, by the way. I just saw a completely different side [laughs] of the Grey Lady.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Oh no.

Micah: Oh yeah.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: [laughs] Oh yeah.

Micah: Come on, I’m trying to add some humor in here. But I also – they left out the whole backstory really with the Bloody Baron and how that…

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: …tied into all this.

Eric: Well – I mean, the thing about the Bloody Baron, he had that sweeping – in the Harry Potter: Page to Screen the book, there are shots that they did of the actors in costume for what would later be green-screened in Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone the film. Bloody Baron is seen for about five seconds sweeping, so it wouldn’t – because he hasn’t been in any of the subsequent films, they didn’t – and also the pending battle because right now students are getting ready to die. I can see why it was omitted.

[Prolonged silence]

More Battle Preparations

Eric: Also…

Andrew: Kingsley.

Eric: [in deep voice] Kingsley.

Andrew: These random attic…

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: …walking ways, walkways [laughs] though the castle.

Eric: Every castle should have one, right? I mean, there have got to be areas like this in every castle, don’t there?

Andrew: Yeah, I guess so.

Micah: I like this line here by Lupin.

Eric: Yeah. The quality of one’s convictions that determines the success of battle. Who said that? Me.

[Prolonged silence]

Eric: Fred and George.

Micah: The last time you’ll see Fred alive.

Andrew: Is this foreshadowing? “Are you okay, Freddie?” And, well…

Micah: I think so.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: …he’s not going to be okay in, like, a half-hour. [laughs]

Eric: Yeah, of course it is.

Micah: They didn’t really shoot that scene for Fred, did they? Or they just never included it in the final cut.

Eric: It’s unclear and – I’ll explain that in a minute. I do want to say that this is – I said Luna telling Harry off was my third favorite scene. This is – the second favorite scene is the opening of the Chamber of Secrets just because I was so happy. Remember in the book, it’s off-scene – or off-screen. You don’t read about them. They show up to Harry and they’re, like, oh, by the way, we went down to the Chamber of Secrets. Actually getting to see it on film is amazing.

Micah: I like this scene right here, watching the Quidditch pitch fall.

Eric: Why do they burn the Quidditch thing down, man? You just…

Andrew: It’s a riot.

Eric: Some man just… [laughs]

Micah: It’s a war.

Eric: Some man just wants to watch the world burn.

Andrew: It is war and it is another ending. I mean, we saw the Quidditch pitch in so many of the films in the beginning of the series, very bright and happy, and now at the end kind of blah.

Micah: Now, another deleted scene that isn’t in the films is when they are setting up all the explosives.

Andrew: Which I liked because that’s a good reminder of why this bridge [laughs] collapsed so easily after Neville just sent one spell.

[Eric laughs]

Micah: I like how…

Eric: Well, yeah…

Micah: …Scabior knew to stop but allowed everybody else to run forward.

Andrew: Yeah, I don’t – yeah. I don’t know.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: I don’t think that would have actually happened.

Eric: I think he’s a diva, he wants more spotlight. And the less people who are next to him, the better he looks. Well, I think the thing is too – again with special effects, sometimes they go by so quickly. When Neville – upcoming when the bridge does explode, you can see that Neville’s spell actually hits a fuse which actually is wired to something but it happens in, like, two seconds here or two split-seconds, so you don’t see it.

The Chamber of Secrets

Micah: I like how nobody cleaned up the basilisk skeleton. They just left it there.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Yeah. I mean, if Slughorn…

Micah: For future use, you know?

Eric: …knew about this – well, if Slughorn knew about this chamber he would have pawned off all those fangs, so it’s kind of a…

Andrew: Well, why not leave it there? I mean, it’s kind of…

Micah: And we didn’t touch on it earlier, but the scene on the staircase where Hermione mentions that Ron had come up with the idea to use the basilisk fang on the cup.

Eric: Hmm, I missed that.

Andrew: Yeah, Hermione was spinning with Ron coming up with the idea.

Micah: It’s Hurricane Voldemort.

Andrew: [laughs] Which I remember there was, I think…

Micah: Or Typhoon Voldemort.

Andrew: Yeah, remember when there was a rumor or something? Like, oh my gosh, there’s going to be a typhoon Voldemort. Everyone was, like, oh my God, what are they doing in this film?

Eric: We saw it in the trailer, yeah. But…

Andrew: It doesn’t really look like him.

Eric: No. But it’s just the idea that Horcruxes are such…

Andrew: This…

Eric: …powerful pieces of magic that when one dies, you get this afterglow or this – just like in the forest scene where there is that huge monster and it fades away. Or they do it again in the Room of Requirement with the fire, how there is still…

Micah: Uh-oh.

Eric: …some kind of residual Voldemort. Man, he’s pissed.

Micah: Yeah, he’s not too happy. See, that’s why I thought the whole destruction of the Horcrux and him feeling it worked well in the films because you see his immediate reaction. Again, another…

Eric: And…

Micah: …deleted scene here where Tonks shows up, they cut that out.

Eric: Yeah, the other thing about Voldemort too and making what you were just talking about, Micah, is that you can see him almost – in the book, it said when there is – another Horcrux is destroyed, he is less and less human each time. You can see him react to one of his – part of his soul dying and how his next movement is that much more maniacal, that much more fierce and angry because he is less and less alive, but also less and less human.

Micah: Right.

Eric: It makes him more dangerous.

[Prolonged silence]

Voldemort’s Followers Invade Hogwarts

Eric: I want them to sell little pieces of shield that you can throw through the air.

Andrew: Like film cells? How they sell film cells?

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: And just the whole – Neville, we see Neville, he’s so strong and he’s such a fighter. And then all of a sudden, the barricade’s gone and he just runs for his life. And…

Micah: Well, if you had that many people [laughs] running after you, wouldn’t you run away?

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: Well – no, I know this but you should have thought about that when there’s 3,500 people there.

Eric: Is there a weight limit?

Andrew: You shouldn’t have been getting closer and being, like, “Ha!”

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: “What are you going to do now?”

Eric: Okay, so it’s slightly more drawn out but yeah, that’s the fuse.

Andrew: And here goes the bridge and classic moment coming up when – oh, did he fall? Did he fall to his death? And you see his hand and his wand, and…

Micah: Nobody is even trying to help him, by the way. They’re all just standing there…

Andrew: I know, everybody is just standing.

Micah: …watching him. [laughs]

Andrew: Yeah, that’s funny.

Eric: Yeah, they’re not, like, here, come on! They’re not sending spells. We might hit him but…

Andrew: They should of been, like, “Accio Neville!”

Eric: [laughs] A summoning spell for – yeah, it would have worked too.

[Prolonged silence]

Eric: I know you’re not about this moment, Andrew, but I loved it. Because I think what sold it is how quickly he disappeared from the shot when the bridge collapsed and he just fell. It wasn’t – it’s almost like one second he’s gone. I just thought – if you can stage a falling, you can stage a recovery. It helps.

The Battle of Hogwarts

Micah: Now there are the giants you were talking about who are actually played by actors.

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: I thought they were all CGI.

Eric: Well, they talk about – in one of the documentaries that are in this home video release, they talk about how Grawp was all CGI or motion capture in Order of the Phoenix – or no, sorry, Half-Blood Prince. No, it’s Order of the Phoenix. And so I think – it was the special effects team, they propositioned – or they basically went to, I think it was David Yates, and said, look, okay for the giants we know we could do it all digital but it will look more real if we actually do film some actors. And they did some tests and they showed…

Micah: Yeah, Kingsley.

Eric: I love this. Kingsley and Arthur Weasley battling here, amazing.

Andrew: And the giants, they are swinging Quidditch hoops, by the way.

Eric: Oh, no way!

Andrew: Yeah, we were debating that in the trailer. And I mean, if you watch it in the movie or the Blu-ray or even the DVD, I think it’s very clear. And they are half-broken but that’s what they are.

Eric: That’s crazy, I thought they were…

Micah: And here comes a part that a lot of people had an issue with too, finding…

Andrew: What’s the…

Micah: …Luna.

Andrew: …issue here? Finding who? Oh, Luna. [laughs] Oh, right. And…

Eric: Well, that…

Andrew: Which was described later as a summer fling.

Eric: Yeah, that’s upsetting but many people don’t catch it because it’s British too. He says, “I’m mad for her.”

Micah: Yeah.

Eric: “I have to find…”

Micah: I know I keep pointing out deleted scenes, but there was another one [laughs] that would have been in here with the Slytherins breaking out of the dungeon after Filch puts them there.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Yeah, the interesting thing is that where Malfoy Apparates is actually from that deleted scene…

Micah: Right.

Eric: …where Malfoy Apparates, grabs – so you think they’re just in a random part of the castle but they are actually – normally they would be in the dungeons if they had kept that scene.

Micah: Here comes another Ron intellectual moment.

Andrew: And then Hermione is, like, “Hahahahaha. You’re so amazing!”

Micah: Maybe she transferred some of the intelligence…

Eric: When she kissed him?

Micah: …to him down in the chamber.

Andrew: Via saliva.

Eric: Yeah. David Yates is, like, okay, from this moment forward, Ron can make intelligent decisions.

Micah: No, they’re just one person now.

Eric: [laughs] Ronmione.

[Prolonged silence]

Eric: “Come on!”

[Prolonged silence]

Room of Requirement

Eric: In the – I asked Arthur Parsons to give me a demo of the Room of Requirement here. He said earlier in the game when they first arrive at Hogwarts, one of the side tasks is that you have to wake up sleeping students [laughs] because they have the hammocks.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: And now in this one it’s just – again in the documentaries, all the props that they got – I mean, they unloaded I think it’s something like seventy-two crates of props from all the previous films to construct this scene. And they went to auction houses and they went to places, and just got all this furniture that they have stacked here. It’s amazing. It’s just amazing.

Micah: Yeah, I think when you just look around, there’s the statue – the Hogwarts statue that you see on the ride, the Forbidden Journey ride as you’re walking through the queue.

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: Just saw some pixies.

Eric: I love the pixies.

Andrew: “Cornish pixies?” And you see the boar, I think…

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: …at some point. I don’t know if we missed it but…

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: And also some chess pieces, I think, are in here.

Andrew: Mhm.

Micah: And yeah, I thought it was a cool tribute, I think I said it on a previous show, to all the other movies that they have…

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: …this stuff in here.

Andrew: I agree.

Eric: Trying to look out and find that one thing that I haven’t seen before, and I’m sure there is hundreds of thousands but just this – Harry can hear the Horcrux. He can feel the Horcrux.

Micah: Yeah, I like that too in this movie because it kind of gave away for people to realize in the end that Harry was a Horcrux as well. I think you mentioned…

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: …that earlier, Eric.

Eric: Yeah, it helps sell it. But this prop, this diadem – and I got to admit, reading the book, what the heck is a diadem, right? I mean, that’s why there is that line in this movie. [imitating Cho] “It’s like a tiara!” [normal voice] But it just looks so…

Micah: What if you don’t know what a tiara is? Then you’re…

Eric: Well…

Micah: …really in trouble.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Then you’re…

[Prolonged silence]

Eric: I like that line, “It’s perverse,” right? It’s just like that – “It doesn’t quite understand me,” you know what I mean? It’s kind of like he’s got this – Draco is misunderstood.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: [imitating Goyle] “Come on, Draco. Don’t be a prat!” [normal voice] Goyle. Is that the Mirror of Erised behind him?

Andrew: Yeah, it looks like it.

Eric: The frame of the Mirror of Erised?

Andrew: I think I saw the mirror there.

Micah: Now what did you think of this? Ron running off, “That’s my girlfriend!”

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: Yeah, that was okay, but the way he was thrusting his wand forward – [laughs] ahh whatever, he’s in love. Give him a break.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: People…

Eric: There is a couch too. Somebody is on the couch, you might as well jump on it. Oh, I love that. The Doxy – I mean – no, the pixies were nesting in there. It’s just that element of realism where you believe that this could actually be a real world.

[Prolonged silence]

Micah: There you go, Andrew. There’s the boar.

Andrew: Yes.

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: Now again, this is another scene that could be used to showcase the special effects.

Andrew: Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah. They’re good. I feel like they put – again, that’s another Wizarding World reference to me because people see it in the movie and then go to the theater – or go to the Wizarding World and be, like, “Oh my gosh! I’ve seen that in the movie!” It’s just…

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: …exciting for the people.

Eric: Are you talking about the boar?

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Yeah, I think so too and I think it’s good that the…

Micah: Now is that Umbridge’s stuff that was on the table there?

Andrew: I don’t know.

Eric: Probably. Yeah, it looks – no, Trelawney’s because you see all the teacups.

Andrew: Oh yeah, it could be. And the Butterbeer too. You see the Butterbeer in the film and then you see it in the park. It’s, like, “Oh wow!”

Eric: Yeah, it’s good that they completed the theme park before they completed the films so that they could have those kinds of things…

Andrew: [laughs] Yeah.

Eric: …in the actual…

Micah: This is cool.

Eric: …major motion pictures.

Micah: That dog or whatever it is.

Eric: Yeah. Kind of a movie-ism where the Fiendfyre takes the form of different animals. But just the idea that it is a crazy wall of fire – my favorite special effects shot is where Goyle is trying to put out – he’s throwing his wand and the fire just keeps coming from it. It shows a real lack of control, lack of ability…

Micah: Now…

Eric: …to control the forces.

Micah: …was it Goyle who actually gets killed in the book or was it Crabbe? I can’t remember.

Andrew: Hmm.

Eric: It’s a good question. I knew the answer once, of course.

Micah: Should Google it.

Eric: I feel like – I’ll Google.

Andrew: Yes, it’s Crabbe who dies.

Eric: It’s Crabbe who dies?

Micah: So, that’s why they changed it.

Andrew: Changed – oh, yeah. Because Crabbe [laughs] no longer exists.

Eric: Hmm. “He became reckless and neglected the potency of his Dark Arts, releasing cursed flames to incinerate his opponents that he couldn’t control which led to his demise.” That’s from the Harry Potter Wiki.

Micah: [laughs] I like how he…

Andrew: Ron gives it that…

Micah: …pucks the diadem…

Eric: Pucks the… [laughs]

Micah: …into the fire.

Eric: Three Voldemort heads.

Andrew: And then the Voldemort heads. [laughs]

Eric: The cool thing – again behind the scenes, it was – one of the physical stunts that they had to do was chuck Harry and Ron out of the Room of Requirement because they’re on their brooms at the time and they had to throw them with – they basically launched them off of a platform, the doubles, [laughs] into the hallway when the doors close behind it.

Andrew: There has been a rumor lately that Nagini is the snake that Harry released in Sorcerer’s Stone. Do you guys think that’s true?

Eric: That was discredited from…

Andrew: Okay.

Micah: Now what is that? Poor Pius just got killed.

Andrew: He’s angry. Voldemort just wants…

Eric: He needs to…

Andrew: …another Horcrux.

Eric: He needs to try – I felt bad for Pius too, Micah. Don’t worry, we’ll have T-shirts and a blood-drive or something, but…

[Micah laughs]

Eric: [laughs] Voldemort is feeling so vulnerable. In fact, I remember people laughing at that sound he makes when he’s, like, “Uhhh.” Where he’s just kind of shocked and it’s that intake of breath. And I thought that that was tremendous acting from Ralph Fiennes because he needs to prove that he still has power, that he’s still capable of being evil. And that’s why the first thing he does is kill somebody again because he needs to prove to himself more than anybody else, but also to everybody else, that he can still do it.

Andrew: Yeah, he’s just angry. He’s just letting out some anger.

Eric: He needed to…

Micah: Now why wasn’t Nagini kept in the orb in this film?

Eric: Oh, like the protective orb?

Micah: Yep.

Eric: I mean, I feel like…

Andrew: It would have looked weird.

Eric: …she’s already such a special effect. It doesn’t…

Andrew: And she has to crawl along the ground. It would have been weird if she was just floating the whole time.

Eric: Well, I think it’s still really relieving when Nagini leaves his side because you do see her in all these scenes right next to Voldemort. So, they still sold the idea, the concept that she was very well-protected.

Micah: Now what’s with the lifting of the sleeve here? Is that to kind of show that he’s decaying or what?

Eric: I thought he was about to – because most – all the Death Eaters have the Dark Mark there.

Andrew: Right.

Eric: But obviously Voldemort doesn’t, so maybe it’s about him feeling his own mortality?

Micah: And he slaps Lucius.

Eric: Yeah. That line, man. “How can you live with yourself, Lucius?” and he just says, “I don’t know.”

Micah: I think even part of Voldemort is disgusted with Lucius.

Eric: Well, that’s the thing. It’s true. It’s exactly what you said. He is disgusted with Lucius. He – it’s almost like he blames Lucius for letting him – I don’t know. He’s just – Lucius never stands up for himself. This whole time he’s being bullied by Voldemort and I don’t think – there’s no respect. There’s just no respect from Voldemort to Lucius, and…

Heading to the Boathouse

Andrew: Right here, Quidditch pitch.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: Sorry to interrupt, but…

Eric: Quidditch hoop. Unbelievable.

Andrew: The Quidditch hoop, yeah.

Eric: I always took it to be like a native object, like a native…

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: …weapon that maybe the giants would have constructed in giantland, you know?

Andrew: Mhm.

Eric: It turns out no, it’s just – you destroyed this. [laughs] It’s just totally a Quidditch hoop.

Andrew: This – I’m surprised Harry, Ron and Hermione get through this so – you know how we were talking about Ron dying? This should have been where Ron died.

Eric: Yeah, smoosh. Just kind of…

Andrew: They run through this battle, throwing spells around. I don’t know how they could possibly be sure who is on whose side, and…

Eric: I wonder if they had trolls in this final battle, how they would have made them look different than giants because the giants kind of look troll-esque.

Andrew: They wouldn’t be as big.

Micah: [laughs] Yeah, I was going to say.

Andrew: But I guess it would just be confusing.

[Prolonged silence]

Eric: Lavender Brown. Many…

Andrew: A little Twilight reference.

Eric: [laughs] Well, actually…

Andrew: It was a joke.

Eric: …Lavender dies in the book.

Andrew: No, I know, but it just made me think of Twilight because – sucking the blood.

Eric: Oh, yeah.

Andrew: This scene, very cool. Aberforth has his moment.

Micah: Well, I remember in the trailer they cut it so it looked like Voldemort hit Fenrir Greyback…

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: …in that scene.

Eric: We were, like, what? Friendly fire, friendly fire.

Andrew: Yeah, you couldn’t tell in the trailer at all.

Eric: Kingsley has lost his hat. I just realized that. Kingsley’s hat is gone.

In the Boathouse

Micah: Now we’re going to go check out the home of the Hogwarts rowing team.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Eric: What’s their – they need a Latin slogan. You’ve got to come up with it.

Andrew: Welcome to the boathouse. We haven’t shown it to you before…

Eric: Well, I think…

Andrew: …but we think it’s a good place for Snape to die. They were talking this up…

Micah: It’s in the video games, actually.

Andrew: When they were talking this up, they were saying you get to see Hogwarts burning in the background as Snape dies. And I was, like, “Oh, cool.” But you really don’t see Hogwarts burning…

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: …in the background as Snape dies, and that was a disappointment because I was kind of looking forward to that. I had this visual in my head that I thought would be quite beautiful.

Eric: It is in the games, which is interesting, even as far back as Chamber of Secrets the game. And we’re talking about when there was only one type of game for each movie release, not fifteen. But you go down to the boathouse and it looks just – I mean, you’re not – you don’t go inside it, but it’s exactly in the same place and I feel like even on the posters, there was a boathouse, right? I mean, early on? So, you know there’s going to…

Micah: It’s interesting, that moment right there when he says, “My lord,” you can tell that he knows that he’s about to get it.

Eric: To get it. [laughs]

Andrew: Yeah, this is a turn.

[Prolonged silence]

Eric: The other thing about having Snape’s death be in this boathouse is that water symbolizes life in a lot of ways, so this raising and lowering of the tide, this water-lapping sound in the background just kind of – it is a place for life and death to be decided.

Andrew: Hmm, interesting point.

[Prolonged silence]

Andrew: Snape’s hair is long and a mess.

Eric: Snape’s hair, for the first time it looks right to me.

Andrew: [laughs] Yeah.

Eric: [laughs] Is that wrong?

Andrew: No, that’s – I agree.

Micah: I didn’t get this line right here, “Only I can live forever.” Snape didn’t have any intention of trying to live forever.

Eric: Well…

Micah: And there he goes.

Eric: …he did though because…

Micah: Quick slit of the throat. How could he not even defend himself though?

Eric: Well…

Andrew: Because he knew…

Eric: He has to know about the Horcruxes, he has to know he has no shot. I mean…

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Oh, the other thing, doesn’t it sell – it helps sell that – it actually helps Harry because it helps sell the notion that Voldemort wins. And when Voldemort gets proud, he makes mistakes.

Andrew: Mhm.

Eric: But there is definitely no way for Snape to know that Harry is watching. I don’t know if there is in the book, but it’s very lucky that Snape waited this long…

Andrew: [laughs] Yeah, that’s true.

Eric: …to show him the memory. But there is no reason for Harry to ever show up, and sort of cradle him and get these memories off…

Micah: But you almost wonder what the alternate plan was…

Eric: You do.

Micah: …to show Harry the truth.

Eric: But yeah, just the finding of Snape’s memory…

Andrew: This shot when Harry and Snape are looking at each other, you don’t see the actual shot that they used but on billboards and in that Oscar booklet, they used that and I think it’s one of the better shots of Harry looking into Snape’s eyes as he’s dying.

Eric: Do you have a scan of that?

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Okay, I’ll look that up.

Micah: Hermione, come on. Get the vial.

Eric: But the tear – just talking…

Micah: You just happen to have one in your pocket.

Andrew: And don’t get the blood, for God’s sake.

Eric: Yeah. We’ve said though that – remember this, Andrew? The tear is digital, so…

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: …there was no crying in this – Snape’s death scene.

Andrew: Yeah. [laughs]

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: Stuart Craig was, like, “I cried when I watched them film this scene.” And it’s, like, wait, you’re crying and not even Alan Rickman was crying?

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: Come on.

Eric: That’s the real thing is when you take into account what everybody else said about this scene and to think that not even Alan Rickman could – was supposed to cry because the tears are supposed to be these memory tears of digital proportions. I don’t know. It just…

Andrew: And here we go with Lily’s eyes, “You have your mother’s eyes,” and this was something else that we learnt recently. J.K. Rowling said Harry’s eye color is not that important, but his mom’s eyes need to look similar to his.

Eric: There is a significance to it.

Andrew: And they didn’t even do it!

Eric: It has to be a significance. There will – I agreed with you when you said that, but Geraldine Somerville – we’ve only seen maybe five minutes total of her in the entire film. Maybe they are…

Andrew: Yeah, but this is side by side and Lily’s eyes are brown, I think.

Eric: Oh.

Andrew: The actress’ eyes are brown.

Eric: Are they?

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Well, I think too, maybe it’s that thing where if you had known Lily, you would have…

Andrew: Is that…

Eric: …seen the resemblance.

Andrew: Was that Fred’s death scene? Was he dying right there, or was it just Voldemort taking over?

Micah: I think that was actually George.

Andrew: Oh, okay.

Eric: He was – I think it’s Fred and the reason – but he’s just been disarmed, he’s not dying. And the reason that that is powerful, I think – the reason that it’s supposed to be powerful is because Voldemort is disarming his forces. He is saying okay, now there is time to go pick up your dead and stuff. But Fred has just been disarmed, he has lost his wand. And he is ordering his Death Eaters to retreat to the forest but I think – Alecto Carrow, is it? Not Amycus, Alecto is the female. Seeing a disarmed Fred there, they are obviously – they have just been dueling and I don’t think – I think it was her evilness that she just kept going and actually killed him because he doesn’t have – you see him lose his wand and in the next scene, he is dead. I just think that that – to me, that that makes a lot of sense, is that she would have just gone on and killed him, and then left.

Micah: Mhm.

Eric: It’s so isolated, the boathouse. Oh my God.

Micah: And now there is nobody around. It’s all quiet.

Eric: Cleaning bill. 1-800-GOT-JUNK?

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Got a few new holes in here. Clear that [beep] out. It’s the start of term next year.

Mourning in the Great Hall

Andrew: I like this scene because you see quite a few of the teachers.

Eric: Yeah, how about that?

Andrew: You see Trelawney, I remember. We’re not seeing it yet, but…

Micah: Hey, Filch got in on the fight.

Andrew: There is Filch, yeah.

Eric: Hmm, nasty gash.

Andrew: We’re going to see Sprout in a second. Yeah, there is Sprout and Trelawney. Thanks for coming back – what’s her name, Emma Roberts?

Eric: Emma Thompson.

Andrew: Emma Thompson.

Eric: Yeah. Wasn’t she one of the two – her and Rita Skeeter, they didn’t really care much about…

Andrew: Yeah, they were both hinting that they weren’t going to come back.

[Prolonged silence]

Andrew: Did Rupert do a good job of crying here? I think so.

Eric: Yeah. David Yates talks about that too, how even though Fred didn’t get a death scene, it’s really part of the reaction, that Ron’s reaction is what you’re going to use as your springboard for your emotion. That seeing his reaction is in ways is more powerful than…

Micah: Lupin and Tonks look really creepy right…

Eric: Creepy?

Micah: Yeah. I mean, just…

Andrew: That was their death scene.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: In fairness, they didn’t get it in the book either, so…

Eric: Oh yeah, to answer the question before, I think I recall hearing that Chris Rankin was surprised that he did not appear in the final battle at all, which leaves me to believe that there was originally some kind of scene shot or planned during the battle, for Fred and George to die. But who knows, right?

Micah: Yeah…

Eric: But I think it involved the whole Weasley family or at least Percy’s – what’s the word? Redemption.

Andrew: I mean, it may have been shot. Did Chris say he definitely didn’t film one at all? Because you know how Stanislav, who plays Krum, he shot it but it didn’t appear – he shot, not the battle, but…

Eric: In the wedding.

Andrew: …in the wedding…

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: …he was supposed to appear.

Micah: Yeah.

Eric: Which we saw…

The Prince’s Tale

Andrew: Now…

Eric: …but yeah.

Andrew: …this…

Eric: Pensieve?

Andrew: This Pensieve – yeah, it’s different from Half-Blood Prince. It was this standing thing, but now this one is a floating – [laughs] it’s like a flying saucer.

Eric: Interestingly, it is and it isn’t different. And this is one of those things where this is the first time in the films they draw attention to it. But during Half-Blood Prince there is one scene where the shot opens on Harry and Dumbledore and the Pensieve, but if you look closely, the Pensieve is just this floating disc. And it’s such a weird choice for them to make…

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: …to turn it into…

Andrew: See Lily’s eyes? Brown.

[Eric laughs]

Micah: Petunia was even a bitch back then.

Eric: Wow. And Snape lived in a tree. Not a pineapple under a tree, just a tree.

[Prolonged silence]

Eric: Helicopters. That’s advanced magic there, turning – making something alive.

[Prolonged silence]

Eric: Awww, young love.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: [singing] “Let’s get together and feel all right.” This scene – I mean, I think this was really well-shot. I’m glad that it was done in full color, not like what Snape’s Worst Memory is. It was kind of like this storybook of – not to mention it was, like, five seconds long in Order of the Phoenix. But this is all really kind of – this sells Snape’s childhood and I think it’s probably one of the best – it was probably the best sequence in the whole film, wouldn’t you say?

Andrew: Yeah, I loved all these historical scenes, so to speak, especially the stuff that happened in Hogwarts like Lily and James meeting…

Eric: And getting Sorting. You have to think – they filmed getting Sorted during the…

Andrew: All over again, yeah.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: It’s really cool.

Eric: The last movie.

Micah: Sirius and James.

Eric: And James.

[Prolonged silence]

Micah: That’s a nice shot.

Andrew: From Sorcerer’s Stone.

Micah: Yeah.

Eric: I’ve always wanted to see them dancing, the shot – a behind-the-scenes of them dancing [laughs] because they did it for the first film, and it’s in the book at the end of the first film but you never see it.

[Prolonged silence]

Eric: Alan Rickman, man.

Andrew: These Snape-Dumbledore scenes are great.

Eric: Yeah.

[Prolonged silence]

Micah: He looks a lot younger there too.

Andrew: Yeah, it’s – the hair is shorter, I think they may have put a little extra makeup on him, maybe.

Eric: He does look younger, I’m glad they were able to pull that off and I was worried that they wouldn’t.

Andrew: Maybe that’s why they made his hair longer in Part 2 so they could differentiate between this older Snape, present-day Snape and then the young-adult Snape.

Eric: [imitating Lily] “Mama loves you. Dada loves you.” [normal voice] She has blue eyes, or her eyes look light there.

Andrew: Hmm, it’s true. It’s a side shot though, can’t say for sure.

Eric: Can’t be sure, can’t be sure. Oh, boy.

[Prolonged silence]

Eric: He’s into astronomy, big globe. He looks so young here.

Andrew: I wonder if he was actually crying in this scene.

Eric: [laughs] I’m sure he was. He’s a competent actor.

Micah: Now they said they actually shot these during Half-Blood Prince, is that true?

Andrew: Really?

Eric: I wonder. I can’t believe that it was…

Andrew: Who was they? I mean…

Eric: …scripted.

Andrew: …if Yates said it, then it must be true. But I don’t see what the advantage would be. I mean – actually – I don’t know because – I mean, “6”..

Micah: Well, because most of Hogwarts is getting destroyed, isn’t it?

Andrew: But would a script be written?

Eric: Yeah, it doesn’t make sense that they would script it so early.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Because they don’t – who knows what – David Yates didn’t even know he would direct the final film. Why would you have that extra work done? I love how he just passes over James’ dead body [laughs] like it’s half a…

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: He’s coming up the stairs. Oh yeah, there is James. Okay, but I have to go find Lily now.

Micah: Yeah, but why would they redo all of this stuff?

Eric: Why wouldn’t they? They have the full support of the budget of the…

Andrew: Yeah. I mean, the Dumbledore’s office set, that has always been there. They have deconstructed the Ministry scene set and put it back together. They – no expenses spared. Just because they don’t have the room to keep all these sets…

Eric: You must…

Andrew: And plus, Michael Gambon wanted to come back to film some stuff for Part 2.

Eric: Well, that was the thing that not necessarily differentiates the books and the movies, but we all knew that Michael Gambon would have to be a big part of the seventh book because of all the Dumbledore backstory at the very least…

Andrew: Mhm.

Eric: …if not King’s Cross. It turns out the backstory wasn’t in, but King’s Cross and these flashbacks were.

Micah: Well, if anybody that is listening wants to check in on that and see if that is true that some of these scenes were shot during Half-Blood Prince

Andrew: Well, where did you hear it?

Micah: I just remember hearing it somewhere.

Eric: I recall hearing that too, but I don’t – thinking about it again…

Andrew: Yeah, I’m going to say no because who knows if David Yates was signed on as a director at that point and…

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: I mean, that just seems odd.

Eric: It’s just that these scenes fit these films and this sequence so well that it is…

Micah: That’s a scary stuffed animal.

Eric: Yeah, a lot of things children have like clowns and things with scary…

Micah: I hate clowns.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Yeah. Sorry, you just had to hear that outburst there.

[Prolonged silence]

Eric: It’s from Movie 4.

Andrew: This was a chill sort of moment when Dumbledore broke the news.

Eric: [poorly imitating Dumbledore] “When the times comes, the boy must die. Yes, yes.” [normal voice] There’s like a fun house, it’s all crooked here.

Micah: It’s weird.

Andrew: It looks like it.

Micah: It’s a completely different Snape.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: What do you mean? No, I – he’s always had a wig so it’s a different wig.

Micah: No, no, no. I mean, just from a character standpoint, from what you’re used to seeing…

Andrew: Oh, yeah.

Micah: …throughout the other seven films.

Andrew: Which added to the epic-ness.

Eric: Baby Harry right there is, like, “Who’s this man cradling my mommy?”

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: “I don’t understand. Is that my Dada?”

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Look, there’s the line, “Pig for slaughter.” Oh yeah, oh yeah. I say that that is a MuggleCast reference right there.

[Prolonged silence]

Eric: The doe. They didn’t really sell the doe, I don’t think.

Andrew: Why does Snape send the doe?

Eric: Well, he sends the doe to show Dumbledore that he is genuine, that he is genuinely in love.

Andrew: Oh.

Eric: But baby Harry still doesn’t know who this man is.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: But at the same time, is there another relation I am missing other than the fact that James Potter had a stag patronus so that Lily represents the doe because she’s the partner of the stag and that Snape has the doe patronus, that it represents Lily? Isn’t that three degrees of separation, or three times removed logic there?

Micah: I mean…

Eric: Am I missing something?

Micah: I think that’s the reason.

Eric: Okay.

Micah: So, we’ve just learned that Harry has to die…

Eric: Has to die.

Micah: …and Voldemort must do it.

Eric: And look at this where I think Harry – or Dan – just sits down. He’s just, like, I know if I don’t sit down right now I’m going to fall over. And he just – he’s still wearing his three layers. Now would be a good time to take a jacket off.

Andrew: Yeah, he’s probably sweating.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah. No, he’s going to die and…

Eric: That’s good acting.

Andrew: …die in this outfit.

Eric: [laughs] Now he really wishes they had chosen a better outfit for him to die in.

Andrew: Yeah. Let me go change real quick before I go die.

Eric: He could, right? He could just – the whole Hogwarts is his for the taking.

[Prolonged silence]

MuggleCast 244 Transcript (continued)

The Trio’s Goodbye

Andrew: This was a really special moment for the trio. Hermione and Harry both know what has to be, what has to happen now.

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: Of course, Ron is a little behind.

Micah: Did you get choked up a little bit here?

Andrew: Did I? No, I didn’t cry once. I did get chills a couple of times. Eric, at this point, had flooded the theater.

Eric: [laughs] Oh, come on.

Andrew: I was – what’s it called when you’re floating in the water?

Eric: Drifting?

Andrew: No. I don’t know. [laughs]

Eric: Yeah. But it is very – it’s good acting between Dan and Emma. And Rupert kind of – Ron and Harry don’t share any lines unlike in the book, but I think it works because I think Ron also gets what’s going on.

Micah: You could do, like, a bro-hug or something.

Eric: Do they?

Micah: No, I’m saying they could.

Andrew: But I think…

Eric: Oh, they could?

Micah: You can see they understand.

Eric: Yeah, I think that – I don’t know.

[Prolonged silence]

Eric: Ron has to be there for his Hermione. It’s all empty. I guess this corridor replaced the moving staircases. Is that because there are portraits and everything?

Andrew: Yeah, we really don’t see any moving staircases, do we? In this film.

Eric: That would have been cool though, having some of the moving staircases mid-move be toppled and destroyed by the spells.

Andrew: Yeah, that would be cool.

Eric: Although even the moving staircases could be a ride at the Wizarding World park…

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: …if you think about it. I mean…

Andrew: That would be a fun house.

Eric: Yeah, yeah, something like that.

[Prolonged silence]

Forbidden Forest

Eric: I never liked this in the book, I open at the close. Again, it’s just like somebody left Harry out of the – or somebody left the readers out of the decision-making process. I guess it makes sense that you can only open the Snitch when you’re prepared to die or whatever it is that Harry says. But why would you ever enchant a Snitch to only open when somebody is ready to die? It just doesn’t make much sense to me.

Micah: Yeah, what if he dies before?

Eric: Yeah, right?

Micah: Then the Snitch would never open.

Eric: The Resurrection Stone.

Micah: Yeah, and this is kind of where the Deathly Hallows were put aside for the Horcruxes because you don’t really get a full understanding, I don’t think, of the fact that Harry possessed all three of these things because the Invisibility Cloak is kind of just glossed over.

Eric: Yeah. But I would argue even in the book it’s not spent too much time on. It almost means nothing that he did at one point have all three of the Hallows. It means nothing because he chooses not to – okay, why does his hand go through his mom’s hand? I – they are not ghosts, they are actual…

Andrew: But it is to show that they’re not actually there, I think, for the viewers.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: That’s the most important part. They’re there but they’re not. They can’t walk in and help Harry fight Voldemort, you know?

Eric: It’s funny because Adrian Rawlins who plays James Potter has one line where he’s, like, “Go get him, son,” and I just always envisioned Dan looking back and be, like, “Sorry, who are you?” Because by this point, I just feel like people would be so confused thinking that Snape and Lily were the thing, that Snape could be Harry’s father, that – and they have him in the background. James Potter just, “You’re nearly there, son.” That’s his only line in – they have everybody else’s more prominent than him. It just – what is James Potter to the Harry Potter films, really? Because they cut the backstory with the Marauders, it was just…

Andrew: Isn’t father enough of a…

Eric: I guess. The father of Harry Potter. I guess so. I think it’s that in the books, they just – Lily and James Potter, they have such a – this – they’re famous before their son was and it’s just omitted from the film because of time and death. But you’re right, he is Harry’s dad, so…

Andrew: [laughs] Enough said.

Eric: How many times can Gary Oldman be tear-inducing, right? I cried when he died, I cried when he said, “We’re in here, your heart.”

Andrew: You did?

Eric: Oh yeah!

Andrew: It’s happened to you?

Eric: Yeah, this happened to me.

[Prolonged silence]

Eric: “Always.” She shares a line with Snape.

[Prolonged silence]

Eric: This is the thing though, the paradox of the films which is that the Resurrection Stone is just lying in the forest, the Elder Wand by the end of it all is floating in the lake, you know? The Deathly Hallows are totally – it is sequel potential is what it is because they are just…

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: They are there at Hogwarts. Someone needs to…

Micah: What, like one of the merpeople [laughs] finds the Elder Wand and repairs it?

Eric: Yeah, exactly.

Micah: It starts a whole new book series.

Eric: This is an interesting moment because Voldemort thinks that Harry isn’t going to show up. There is that extra line, “Oh, I thought he would come. Huh. Okay, what next?” Then of course, he shows up.

[Prolonged silence]

Eric: He’s got such nice ears.

Andrew: I love how Bellatrix is kind of in the picture, and then [laughs] she looks back and then moves out of the frame.

Eric: Yeah.

[Prolonged silence]

Eric: [imitating Voldemort] “Harry Potter, the boy who lived, come to die.” [normal voice] This is where all the trailers for this movie start.

Andrew: Poor Hagrid.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah, the trailers – I loved how the trailers started here actually.

Eric: [imitating Death Eater] “No sign of him, my lord.”

[Prolonged silence]

Eric: He’s so haunted. Ralph does that thing with his eyes that he’s done ever since Goblet of Fire where it’s like they are so – lose makeup where they are just in their sockets but it gives the impression that he can see the fear or the pain that he’s about to inflict. And Harry doesn’t even [unintelligible]

Micah: It takes so long just to cast the spell.

Eric: Yeah. [imitating Voldemort] “Avada Kedavra!”

King’s Cross

Micah: And I like this scene. This is probably my favorite scene in the film aside from the break-out at Gringotts.

Andrew: Yeah, it’s quite beautiful.

Eric: It’s good to see Michael Gambon playing such a book Dumbledore…

Andrew: Yeah, exactly.

Eric: …which I think is the highlight for me. But they do change that line which I have real trouble understanding at the end.

Andrew: I love that. I mean, we talked about that on 242.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: I thought that was really special.

Eric: This Voldie-fetus. Fetal Voldemort.

Micah: Just fry it up with some eggs and you’re all set.

Eric: [laughs] Oh my God! What would you even call that? Quiche Voldy?

Micah: Voldie-pot pie? I don’t know. [laughs]

Eric: They said in the – this scene – it’s one of the things – it’s just a puppet actually. But they said it stank because it’s some kind of rubber that they had to pour this fake blood over. It’s just more disgusting stories…

Micah: Yeah, I wouldn’t want to have to be responsible for creating that in the prop department.

Eric: You kidding me? They thrive on that kind of stuff. It’s like everybody wants to be a horror movie prop-maker.

Andrew: It looks very real. We actually got to see the Voldemort on set.

Eric: Oh, did you?

Andrew: Yeah, that wasn’t special effects. I mean, maybe the movement was but…

Eric: Right. No, I think they said it was a puppet under – somebody was controlling it under the platform.

Andrew: It looks less – the DVD/Blu-ray version looks less white to me as I remember in the theaters. Maybe because the theater was just so big your eyes were just washed out, but in here it looks different.

Micah: Yeah, it almost looks blue.

Andrew: Yeah, yeah, it does. It matches more with what they are wearing.

Eric: I was going to just say that too. Why are they wearing blue…

Andrew: Harry is naked in this scene in the book, right?

Eric: Well no, he finds clothes. He starts naked.

Andrew: He starts naked.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: See, I don’t see – this whole film was ruined for me. I was expecting that.

Micah: It’s kind of…

Eric: Yeah, I’m sorry.

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: It’s a rebirth type of thing, right? Sort of a Christ resurrection…

Andrew: Mhm.

Micah: …reference.

Eric: Blue is water, water is life, that sort of thing. Michael Gambon’s eyelids are blue – or eyelashes, eyebrows. What am I trying to say? Are very blue. He sounds very much like Aberforth in this line, “Where would it take me?” and he says…

Andrew and



[Andrew laughs]

Eric: That sounds so much like Ciar·n Hinds doing Aberforth Dumbledore to me. I don’t know why.

Andrew: It says so little, but so much.

Eric: Yeah. Dumbledore, just this long walking away.

[Prolonged silence]

Andrew: See, what Dumbledore is saying here is – Harry needs help and Dumbledore is saying we will give you help. But we don’t just give anyone help at Hogwarts. We give people help who deserve it.

Eric: But at Hogwarts…

Andrew: Crabbe is not going to get help.

Eric: But Hogwarts should give help to everybody.

Andrew: No, it shouldn’t.

Eric: Well…

Andrew: It shouldn’t help Voldemort.

Eric: It’s a certain – you’re defeating your own character. You have to give in to ask for help in the first place. If somebody has that moment of humbling, of that modesty to ask for help, they should be given help even if they are Crabbe, even if they are a Slytherin, which is why I think, “Help will be given to all who ask for it,” is completely sufficient the way it is and that it shouldn’t need to be changed.

Andrew: We asked for – on the last episode of MuggleCast, we asked people – or on Episode 242 we said send in – what do you think Dumbledore’s line means? And Lindsey, 25, from San Antonio said:

“Neville Longbottom always comes to mind when I hear this line. Dumbledore makes the original statement in Harry’s second year and Harry recalls those words when he is in the Chamber of Secrets facing Tom Riddle. After asking for help, Fawkes appears with the Sorting Hat which Harry subsequently pulls from the Sword of Gryffindor and kills the Basilisk. Shortly after the King’s Cross scene in which Dumbledore amends his statement, Neville without asking for help but clearly deserving of help, happens to find the Sorting Hat, pulls the Sword of Gryffindor from it and uses it to kill Nagini. It’s a very close parallel.”

Eric: Oh, so it’s that…

Andrew: Thanks Lindsey.

Eric: He’s, like, almost too proud to ask for it but yet he still…

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: …deserves it?

Andrew: Well no, just that Neville deserved the help.

Micah: I liked this scene also just because of sort of the iconic lines that Dumbledore has.

Andrew: Yeah, exactly. Me too.

Eric: “Words are our most inexhaustible form of magic.”

Micah: “Of course it’s happening inside your head. But why on earth should that mean that it’s not real?”

Eric: Yeah, it was good reading that in the book. It’s one of the most quoted…

Micah: And what you were saying actually, Eric, before, I think, where a lot of people got confused between Lily and Snape versus Lily and James was just in that dialogue between Harry and Dumbledore when he’s talking about Snape’s Patronus taking the form of a doe…

Eric: That’s cleared up in the book?

Micah: …and how it was curious. No, no, no, I think that’s where people got even more confused because…

Eric: Oh.

Micah: …when Harry says, isn’t it curious that Snape’s Patronus takes the same form as my mother’s? And Dumbledore says it’s not curious at all.

[Eric laughs]

Micah: Because we did get e-mails saying, but does that mean that Snape is Harry’s father?

Eric: It’s not curious at all. Duh Harry, duh.

Andrew: Uh, duh.


Micah: And this – I know Helen McCrory said a number of times it’s her favorite line from the films.

Eric: [imitating Narcissa] “Dead.” [normal voice] Why is she a brunette? Why didn’t they make her go all blond? Sorry, I just – I would be remiss if I didn’t ask that question.

Andrew: She has black hair.

Eric: I know she has black hair, but why make only some of it blond?

Andrew: Yeah, I don’t like it. It’s like an Oreo.

Eric: [laughs] I love Oreos.

Andrew: [laughs] Then what’s your problem?

Eric: [laughs] My problem is I just thought she was full-blond.

Andrew: I’m just kidding. See, look, Neville deserved it. He found the hat, somehow it got out there.

Micah: Well, in the books too, it’s – Harry is not the one that usually ends up killing the Horcrux. I mean, he did with the diary but Dumbledore destroyed the ring, right?

Andrew: Mhm.

Micah: Ron destroys the locket. I think it’s Hermione that destroys the cup. I can’t remember who destroys the diadem and then it’s Neville who…

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: …kills Nagini.

Eric: So, you’re saying – in the books too, there is such emphasis placed on it. It has to be Harry, this is Harry’s journey. I think the emphasis is primarily placed on him by Dumbledore, but you see that so many different people get their crack at killing a Horcrux in the end.

Andrew: That shot we just saw of Harry – or of Hagrid carrying Harry, used on a lot of billboards in L.A. [laughs] Again, that Oscar push.

Eric: Really?

Andrew: And I think they are using that because it’s, like, “Hey, look guys, we’re killing our main character. How cool is that?” [laughs]

Eric: Yeah, we went there. We went there. We didn’t…

Andrew: Yeah, we went there.

Eric: Also that shot that you bring up, the one thing they saved Hagrid as a character from being killed. I know whenever remember MuggleNet did – whenever we used to do polls, who will die in Book 5? Who will die in Book 6? Hagrid, Hagrid, Hagrid was the favorite to die. But J.K. Rowling said it was never in the cards because she always had this image of Hagrid carrying Harry’s supposedly lifeless body to this courtyard, and that it’s tied in with Hagrid carrying baby Harry to Privet Drive.

Micah: And this is, of course, the scene that everybody [laughs] references when you interview them, how much they enjoyed a specific scene. This is always the one that always seems to come to mind.

Eric: Yeah, they say that Ralph Fiennes, just his portrayal, the way he acts – this is in “Maximum Movie Mode” too. They say you never know who he is going to look at, who he is going to play off of where he is doing this thing.

Andrew: Yeah. I mean, he was commanding the stage here.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: He owned it. This is such a unique performance that I’m not sure anybody expected. It’s just wonderful.

Micah: And Bellatrix is just off on the left acting like him.

[Eric imitates Bellatrix’s high-pitched laugh]

Andrew: Yeah, it’s beautiful. I love it. I think they captured it perfectly.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: Few things I call perfect in this Harry Potter series, but this I find perfect.

Eric: Here is Chris Rankin.

[Prolonged silence]

Eric: [imitating Lucius] “Draco.”

Andrew: Get the heck over here!

Eric: What are you doing? What are you – come on, I’m putting my hand out. You know how often I put my hand out for you.

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: He is mama’s boy though.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: Come to Mommy.

Eric: Draco. Draco, come to Mummy.

Micah: But don’t forget to hug Uncle Voldemort…

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Micah: …on the way over.

Eric: Oh, it’s so… [makes squirming noises]

Micah: [laughs] You can tell he wants to laugh, right there. Alfie Enoch.

Eric: Everybody else is, like, yeah.

Andrew: David Yates, he answered this in one of the interviews down in Orlando. He said that audiences in different countries took it differently because hugs – there are different signals of gesture – a different type of gesture in various countries around the world. Of course in America, everybody laughed. But in different countries, some people took it more seriously which I found interesting.

Eric: Why? Did he name a specific country that he hopes that we view this film in to…

Andrew: No, no, no. But he said not every country was laughing which makes sense because different cultures have different greetings and gestures and…

Eric: That makes a lot of sense actually.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Was that on E! that he…

Andrew: Maybe. I’m not sure.

Eric: That is cool all the same. I like this – the reason I like this scene – it is my favorite scene in the movie is because that line, “Well, Neville, I’m sure we’d be fascinated to hear what you have to say.” He is so proud of having just killed Harry Potter that Voldemort allows this kind of defiance.

Andrew: Mhm.

Eric: He’s feeling nice. He’s just hugged Draco, he’s feeling nice. He wants to – when it becomes apparent that Neville is not stepping across to join him but to defy him, he could have just killed him. He could have just killed him. But he didn’t, he lets – he hears him out. And the fact that Neville creates such a rousing speech from it is great. But I think Voldemort’s pride being his undoing is the greatest moment of this film.

Micah: So Andrew, not liking Neville necessarily, what did you think of this scene?

Andrew: This was okay.

Micah: He is so creepy right here.

Eric: “Because you’re wrong! Harry’s heart did beat for us!”

Andrew: Neville needs to get that head – that can’t be safe.

Eric: That’s the thing here, look at Voldemort’s face.

Final Showdown

Andrew: Look how Harry and Neville are kind of choreographed. They both sprung to life… [laughs]

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: …at the same moment.

Eric: This is finally – I know when watching the film the first time, I had this experience where I was, like, “When will that snake ever, ever leave Voldemort?” But Voldemort is so distracted by Harry that he just runs at him.

Andrew: Yeah, in hindsight, I would have liked to see the final battle take place right here. Not this extra chase that we see in a few moments. But first maybe – first Neville gets the snake and then they kind of all move into the Great Hall, and then Harry and Voldemort finish it off there instead of this extra thing, especially with the cliff fall and…

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: …with Voldemort tying him up in the robes. This was totally just to get the film to two hours, I think.

Micah: Yeah. And just calling him Tom in front of everybody…

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: …which was left out.

Eric: Yeah. I don’t know, Harry is a little sure of himself when he says that in the books, like a show-off moment. Dumbledore called him Tom, so I can call him Tom. The other thing about why it doesn’t work in the book, in the Great Hall, I think, is because anybody – at that point when Voldemort is mortal, anybody could have killed Voldemort. And anybody probably should have. Enough talking, don’t let Harry have his victory speech, just somebody cast a damn killing curse at Voldemort because if you do, it will actually kill him and it will actually be the end of all – these twenty years of terror. So, I think it’s important that they’re alone.

Micah: Yeah, and I think David Yates even brought that up when we spoke to him back in July. He was saying how you almost needed them to go off and fight because these two have been going at it for however many years now at this point and it just provides closure. And even from a movie-standpoint, you need to have this one-on-one battle taking place and why not do it throughout Hogwarts?

Eric: Well, it’s just death – also, I was just thinking death is a very personal thing. It’s odd to say, but when Voldemort dies and he has that look where he is scared of what’s happening to him at the very end, it’s very intimate that it’s only Harry who watches this and it also provides better closure for Harry, having suffered so much to be able to – to be the one person to kind of witness this.

Micah: This was a – I didn’t like this.

Eric: What, Neville waking up? Yeah, I think all of us had a problem with this actually. Because Neville has just been blasted into – but there is somebody else in the background on fire. [laughs] What?

Micah: I think it’s just the way that it’s shot.

Eric: It’s shot in like – what, because it’s in slow motion?

Micah: Yeah, and it’s just kind of a…

Eric: Because he looks a little groggier than…

Micah: …hero’s moment.

Andrew: And I would have liked to have seen a battle in the Great Hall because we really don’t see much other than that shot in the background…

Eric: Yeah…

Andrew: …out of focus.

Eric: …in the film, the Great Hall is reserved for the med ward, you know? The medical…

Andrew: And now we’ve talked about this a lot but…

Eric: Yep.

Andrew: …Voldemort would kill Harry right here.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: Unless – you could maybe argue that Voldemort wanted to make a show of it and do it in front of everybody. That could be a valid point but otherwise, it just doesn’t make sense.

Micah: Anybody think it’s weird they’re trying to stab a snake with a snake fang?

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Eric: It’s a bigger snake fang, it’s not the same snake.

Andrew: Let’s pause for Molly.

Eric: [laughs] This is what happens when you put actors in a room together. You just get them to have all sorts of fun. [whispers] Love that.

Andrew: Now how about the crumbling and the smashing into pieces and…

Eric: Yeah, it’s two separate spells, right? One kills her, one destroys her. But the choice – and we’ve talked about this on MuggleCast, the choice to make Bellatrix explode and the choice to make Voldemort explode so that there is no corpse is in some ways less powerful. I don’t think that’s what they’re going for, but there is nothing more powerful than seeing a dead Voldemort body lifeless, right? The idea that he evaporates as he does is less powerful because then it’s, like, oh, he could be coming back, right? He is – is he part of the environment now just like he was before?

Andrew: And here is the fall.

Micah: Yeah, and just before this sort of the fighting that went on, to have the physical contact was a little weird.

Andrew: Yep, I…

Eric: Well, that’s…

Andrew: They can’t get physical.

Eric: That’s why they…

Andrew: Jo is lying when she said she had no problems with this film.

Eric: [laughs] Was she – well no, that’s why they cut the, “Why do you live? Because I have something worth living for.” That was the moment where David Yates said, “Wait a minute. Okay, now we’ve gone and done it. We made it…”

Micah: That’s creepy.

Eric: “…a little too physically close,” where – it was the moment where Voldemort would have actually crushed Harry’s face if they had put it in the movie, so that’s why they cut it. But that was a creepy moment where they merged, but again it sells the idea that they are so alike.

Micah: And I think when we spoke to him also, he talked about how as they are flying throughout Hogwarts, they are sort of intertwined with each other which is symbolic in the sense that they are for most of the series as well.

Eric: Mhm.

Andrew: Great moment, both looking at each other very firmly in the eye and then shooting the spell at the same time.

Eric: They really cut it…

Micah: I think they are…

Eric: …down to the…

Micah: There was another deleted scene right about there as well, with them running away from Nagini.

Eric: Yeah, yeah, you’re right.

Andrew: Yeah, really short, right?

Eric: It was funny though. She said – or Ron’s, like, “I have to say something!” and she’s, like, “Don’t say anything you wouldn’t say if we weren’t being chased by a giant snake!”

Andrew: And perfect timing, Neville swoops in and kills Nagini before she kills Ron and Hermione.

Eric: Now the thing is now that Nagini is dead, Voldemort is mortal. Is there another spell that is fired here or did Voldemort just lose this battle?

Andrew: No, there’s another one.

Eric: No, no, I think he’s dying.

Andrew: No, but Harry sends one more.

Eric: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. Now…

Micah: But I think it’s also the fact that the allegiance of the Elder Wand lies with Harry and Voldemort has cast Avada Kedavra so it’s about to rebound on him.

Eric: Yeah, it’s the undoing. I love that look where he’s – the cool thing is that his wand flies from him and…

Andrew: This – yeah. I’ve got to say, I really would have liked to see one more spell out of Harry.

Eric: But Harry…

Andrew: The final hit.

Eric: Yeah, but Harry is not a defensive person and that’s why he always uses Expelliarmus. It’s an offensive…

Andrew: But he’s offensive.

Eric: Oh yeah, he’s…

Andrew: He didn’t need to defense…

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: And Voldemort is not human…

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: …either, so it wouldn’t have made sense for him to just fall over even though…

Andrew: And this…

Micah: …he does have a body in the book.

Andrew: …shredding into paper, I wasn’t thrilled with that.

Eric: It was an excuse to do 3D. I think…

Micah: So, you would rather have a body?

Andrew: Well, yeah. I mean, in the book it’s a body, right?

Eric: Yeah…

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: So…

Eric: …it’s a body.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: It’s totally a body.

Andrew: I mean, what’s – I guess maybe the question would have been, like, oh, what are we going to do with the body? Are we going to show it? Or what did Voldemort’s body look like?

Eric: That’s the thing, it’s the – Voldemort’s last practical joke on the world is [laughs] what are we going to do with his body, you know? But…

Andrew: Summer fling. Neville and Luna…

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: …even though they don’t touch each other. [laughs]

Eric: It isn’t going to last. But she’s, like, banging her knees together and he’s, like, yeah, I got the Sword of Gryffindor and I deserve it, Dumbledore said. Chris Rankin.

Andrew: Molly is smiling…

Eric: Katie Leung.

Andrew: …even though her son just died.

Eric: Well…

Andrew: And sunlight for the first time.

Eric: Small victories. And yeah, it’s… [laughs]

Andrew: Aberforth got in a little bit.

Micah: All the professors there.

Andrew: Yep. Sprout is actually drinking straight vodka.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: That is not coffee or tea. This hug between Harry and Hagrid I love because it’s like a throwback to Chamber of Secrets.

Eric: Yeah, I’m glad they don’t play that damn music. Or are they?

Andrew: But I wish Hagrid would have said something to Harry.

Micah: Harry has got a cup too.

Eric: There is nothing to say. Oh hey…

Andrew: They’re all getting drunk.

Micah: I didn’t notice that before.

Eric: Harry has got a cup. Look at that.

Micah: Poor Filch. Got to clean…

[Eric laughs]

Micah: …the whole thing up himself. [laughs]

Eric: He’s a Squib. [laughs] He can’t use magic, that’s the thing. That’s what really sucks about it. Ron and Hermione have just been having sex the last half-hour.

Andrew: [laughs] Oh God.

Eric: She’s glowing.

[Prolonged silence]

Explanations about the Elder Wand

Eric: This shot – Andrew, you remember this in the test screening with all the green screens?

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: It’s like the ground they are standing on is the only thing that’s real and everything else is corridors of green screen or walls of green screen.

Andrew: Mhm.

[Prolonged silence]

Andrew: A little more explanation, wrap up the plot.

[Prolonged silence]

Eric: “The wand never belonged to Snape.”

[Prolonged silence]

Eric: I’d love to be a guy in a canoe ruining this shot right now.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: [laughs] In the back.

Andrew: Get out of the picture!

Eric: [laughs] Attention, we are shooting a Harry Potter film, kind of an important scene. Get out of the picture!

Andrew: You should see merpeople. Is that the Great Lake?

Eric: Yeah, yeah, they should be rejoicing, having a party.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Or a buffet or they should have…

Andrew: Mhm.

Eric: …their cups.

Micah: I know a lot of people also wrote in saying they were surprised Harry didn’t repair his own wand which he does at the end of the book.

Eric: Yeah, that pissed people off because now he really has no wand.

Andrew: He has no wand.

Eric: Yeah. But I mean, talking about allegiances, anybody who found those two pieces of the wand should have its allegiance because the first thing they’re going to do is repair it, so…

Andrew: Yeah. I mean, when he breaks the wand, you see some smoke…

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: …sort of come out of it. Maybe that was the way of saying that it’s done for.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: [laughs] They could add a teaser at the end of this where you see Crabbe walk up and find the two pieces of the wand. [laughs]

Eric: [laughs] Or like Jumanji.

Andrew: To be continued.

Eric: Like the end of Jumanji where the game washes up in, like, China, washes up on the shore in China. There should just be, like, the tribal drums and somebody finds the Elder Wand.

Andrew: And there we go, the final shot.

Eric: That’s just like – to me, this scene of the movie represents the book to me, where it’s the end of our story, you know? It’s just like…

Andrew: And they’re looking on.

Eric: They can’t – if they take one step forward, it would be no longer canon, you know?

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Because that’s where the book ended.

Andrew: Mhm.


Eric: And nineteen years later. I was surprised because I thought we would make it all the way to the epilogue without getting a behind-the-scenes on the epilogue. Fortunately in “Maximum Movie Mode,” the epilogue behind-the-scenes is actually three or four times as long as the epilogue itself, so they do…

Andrew: This building right here is where they had the junket for Deathly Hallows which… [laughs]

Eric: No kidding?

Andrew: [laughs] Yeah, which is kind of a funny little thing. Sorry, I cut you off. I just wanted to get that in while the shot was up.

Eric: Yeah, yeah, cool. No problem. Does he have a badger? Sirius or James?

Andrew: I missed it, I’m not sure.

Eric: Yeah, it doesn’t look like an owl. It definitely does not look like an owl or a cat or a toad. It’s pretty much – I’m pretty sure it’s a badger.

Micah: It’s a ferret.

Eric: A ferret? [laughs]

Micah: It looks like a ferret.

[Prolonged silence]

Eric: He might have an owl.

Andrew: I think this epilogue, the older appearances ended up turning good. It was subtle.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: The voice deepening was subtle.

Eric: They really, really did overdo it the first time and I think that’s sort of come out since these special features and things are on the disc. But they really overdid it…

Andrew: Mhm.

Eric: …the first time when they shot it actually at King’s Cross.

Micah: Now the first time, was Teddy Lupin in there?

Eric: According to the kids – but we – no, that part – and I remember your interview with the children that said that. But no, in the – we haven’t – there is still not a shot that’s supposed to be Teddy Lupin very obviously in any of these special features but I’ll look for that on the Definitive Collection.

Micah: Yeah, the interview that we did with Will Dunn and Arthur Bowen.

Eric: Yeah, they said that in the initial epilogue there was a moment between Harry and Teddy Lupin actually. Got to tie my shoe because it’s past 2015 and they don’t have power laces.

Micah: I think one of the things that both Arthur, who we see right here, and Will said was that somebody had to stand in to tie the shoe because Dan didn’t know how to tie his shoe.

Eric: Really?

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: Dan didn’t know?

Micah: Yeah.

Eric: Oh, I think – well, not to tie his shoe but just to tie his shoe backwards, was it? Or – because tying somebody else’s shoe is a little bit different.

Micah: Yeah, that’s what it was. Yeah.

Eric: Yeah. I mean, it’s not really different. You could just tie his shoe like you’re tying your own but it’s kind of a funny – the Sorting Hat takes your thing into account. It’s like a cheat code, it’s like you’re giving your kids – God, he spoils his children. Seriously.

Andrew: Yeah, I don’t know if that was good. I mean, I guess it’s comforting to him, but…

Eric: I like the line, though, “The bravest man I ever knew.” Obviously it’s in the book but it just shows that it doesn’t matter what house you’re in.

Andrew: Yeah. Harry should have been, like, “Don’t worry, it’s just like Pottermore.”

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: “You’re not really sorted into your House.” [laughs] “It’s just so there’s a fair fight for the House Cup.”

Eric: Look at that, Chocolate Frog animation. That must have been so cool to do that.

Micah: I like how Albus Severus and James Sirius are already hitting on the older women.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Micah: Because those have to be at least sixth or seventh years in the car with them.

Andrew: Mhm.

Eric: It’s – oh Micah. It looks like Jeremy Piven in the background.

[Prolonged silence]

Eric: Oh no. See, this music I was okay with being the direct track from the end of the first film.

Micah: And that shot right there too was very [laughs] focused on Harry and Hermione as opposed to – Ron was kind of in the background.

Eric: Yeah, yeah.

Andrew: As usual.

[Micah laughs]

Show Close

Andrew: Always the third wheel. Well, that wraps up our Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows: Part 2 commentary. Hopefully, everybody enjoyed it. That was fun.

Eric: Now listen to us read the credits! [laughs]

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: I already closed out the movie, so…

Andrew and



Micah: …sorry.

Andrew: Wow, Micah couldn’t wait to finish. [laughs]

[Micah laughs]

Eric: It’s okay. Geez.

Andrew: Yeah, that was a lot of fun and we hope everybody enjoys it, enjoyed the extra flavor of information since there was no commentary on the DVD whatsoever.

Eric: Yeah, unless you want to take into account “Maximum Movie Mode”.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Which – the things they do though. They added the timing of the film so they stop it, they rewind it, they pause it, they go back, they go forward, all sorts of stuff.

Andrew: And just a reminder, all the information you need about the show can be found on If you have any feedback about what we discussed during the commentary, just click on “Contact” at the top and you can fill out the form. Get in touch with us that way and we’ll do some commentary feedback on Episode 245, I guess. Thanks everyone for listening! From, I’m Andrew Sims.

Eric: From, I’m Eric Scull.

Micah: From, I’m Micah Tannenbaum.

Andrew: We’ll see you next time for our Sorcerer’s Stone commentary!

[Show music begins]

Micah: [laughs] We’re starting…

Andrew: Just kidding.

Micah: …it all from the beginning.

Andrew: Yes. No, not yet anyway.

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: Maybe.

Micah: Maybe.

Andrew: Yeah. And we’ll see you next time…

Eric: Maybe for the 15 year anniversary because the 10 year…

Andrew: Right.

Eric: …anniversary was yesterday so we really got to get on that. [laughs]

Andrew: There you go.

Eric: There you go. Cool.

Andrew: See you next time for Episode 245! Goodbye!

Micah: Bye!

Eric: Bye-bye!

[Show music continues]