Transcript for MuggleCast Episode #379, Baby Micah (HBP Chapter 2, Spinner’s End)
Show Intro
[Show music plays]
Andrew Sims: Welcome to MuggleCast Episode 379. I’m Andrew.
Eric Scull: I’m Eric.
Andrew: And Micah is not here this week, and we thought, “Well, we’ll definitely have a guest on, as we’ve been doing, but maybe since Micah isn’t here, we’ll bring on two guests to replace such a mammoth figure on the podcast.” We’re joined by two of our patrons this week, Alex and Stefanie. Hello, girls.
Alex: Hi.
Stefanie: Hello.
Andrew: It’s nice to have you both on. Alex, how long have you been listening to the show?
Alex: Oh, gosh. Since I was… so probably going about nine years now.
Andrew: Oh, awesome. Thank you. Long time.
Alex: Yes.
Andrew: How about you, Stefanie?
Stefanie: I’ve only been listening for about three years, ever since I started working and commuting, and I said to myself, “Why don’t I have a Harry Potter podcast?”
[Andrew laughs]
Stefanie: So I tried a whole bunch and landed on this one, and I love it.
Andrew: That’s awesome. So what did you do? Go into the iTunes Store and search “Harry Potter podcast”?
Stefanie: Yes, and I tried a lot of them, and I hated all of them. Oh, sorry. I don’t want to be mean to your competitors.
Eric: Whoa!
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: “I hated all of them! They’re all terrible!” I think we have a relaxed show here. It’s laid back. It’s honest. It’s fun. It’s weekly now.
Stefanie: And Micah’s voice, right?
Andrew: Micah’s voice!
Eric: I know.
Andrew: People are drawn to that voice.
Eric: We all… we don’t know how he does it.
Andrew: [laughs] We don’t know how he does it. In the words of Lady Gaga, he was born that way. I would love to know what his voice was like as a child.
Eric: Anyway… [laughs]
Stefanie: What if he always had that low tone when he was, like, five?
Andrew: That’s what I’m wondering now.
Alex: A little 4-year-old that walks up and just has the smoothest…
Andrew: [in a low voice] “Give me my bottle.”
[Alex laughs]
Eric: It would be really funny if the episode that Micah is not on, he gets back from his work conference and sees it’s titled “Baby Micah.”
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: He’s going to listen to that one real quick.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: He’ll be terrified. Anyway, let’s get both of your fandom IDs. Stefanie, let’s start with you. In one breath, we want to hear your favorite book, movie, Hogwarts House, Ilvermorny House, and Patronus.
Stefanie: Okay. I’m so excited. All right. Okay, my favorite book is Half-Blood Prince, so I’m really excited to be here today.
Andrew: Woo!
Stefanie: My favorite movie… I do not like any of the movies.
[Andrew laughs]
Stefanie: But if I had to pick, I would pick Sorcerer’s Stone or Deathly Hallows – Part 1, and even though I hate all the movies, I’ve been to every midnight showing, so try to figure that one out. Hogwarts House, I’m a Ravenclaw. My Ilvermorny House is Thunderbird, and my Patronus is a stoat.
Eric: Twins!
Stefanie: Oh, how many of those?
Eric: I’m a Thunderbird, and a stoat. But I really meant the stoat Patronus. I don’t know anybody else who’s got a stoat Patronus.
Stefanie: I don’t either. I had to look it up, and it was a weasel, right? [laughs]
Eric: Yeah. Well, not only that, but Hagrid feeds the children stoat in Book 1, and they hate it.
Stefanie: Oh. [laughs] I don’t remember that.
Eric: Yeah, the trio literally eat stoat sandwiches. Stoat sandwiches are…
Stefanie: I just remember from Frazier, there’s this line where… I don’t know if you’ve ever watched Frazier, but there’s this line where he says “randy as a stoat.” That’s the only thing I know about stoats.
[Andrew and Stefanie laugh]
Eric: Oh my God. No, if you Google “stoat sandwich image,” the first image result is this beautiful fan art of the children with disgusted looks on their faces, and Hagrid’s hand reaching out with this greasy drippy meat. And I was so offended when I found out my Patronus was a stoat. I tweeted J.K. Rowling right away; I was like, “Hey, J.K. Rowling, looks like Hagrid eats my Patronus. If I eat my Patronus, do I gain its power?”
[Alex and Stefanie laugh]
Eric: But it turns out… and then I embarked on a quest to see if I could get a stoat sandwich anywhere in the US. But it turns out you can’t; the Food and Drug Administration… they don’t import stoat meat.
Stefanie: Weasel sandwiches? [laughs]
Eric: Yeah, weasel sandwiches, exactly. So you have to go to Scotland, where the darn things run rampant, apparently.
Stefanie: Oh my goodness.
Andrew: Anyway, Alex, let’s get your fandom ID now.
Alex: All right.
Andrew: Same questions. One breath.
Alex: Okay, favorite book is also Half-Blood Prince; movie is Sorcerer’s Stone; my Hogwarts House is Hufflepuff; Ilvermorny is Wampus; and my Patronus is a dolphin, which I have not heard of anybody eating, thankfully.
Stefanie: Yes, and that is way better than a stoat.
[Andrew laughs]
Alex: The thing with it is, though, is I hate the water. Can’t stand going in the water. So when I saw that my Patronus was a dolphin, I was like, “Uh… okay.”
Andrew and Eric: Yeah.
Eric: I mean, they’re smart. They learn quickly. They tend to value family groups. I don’t know.
Alex: True.
Eric: Seems kind of Hufflepuff-y, and also Ravenclaw-y.
Alex: Yeah!
Andrew: Well, again, thank you both for joining us. And finally, I wanted to have a little challenge with both of you: Since Micah isn’t on, I want to get both of your best Micah impressions. Stefanie, do you want to go first? You can just use that line, or you can make up your own.
Stefanie: Sure. Okay, I’ve got to get in the zone.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Stefanie: Okay. [imitating Micah] “Live from the MuggleCast news center in New York, I’m Micah.”
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: I like how you kind of moved slowly through that statement, too.
Stefanie: He does have a very slow methodical tone and pace.
Andrew: That’s true, yeah. Alex, you do your best one now.
Alex: All right. [clears throat] Getting ready here. [imitating Micah] “This is MuggleCast 379, and my name is Micah.”
Eric: Well, she got the cadence down pat.
Andrew: I don’t think either of you went deep enough, to be honest with you, but that’s okay.
Stefanie: Whoa, I went pretty deep.
Andrew: [laughs] You’re not… [in a very low voice] You two aren’t men, that’s the problem.
[Alex and Stefanie laugh]
Andrew: “Mom, bring me my bottle. I’m Micah. I’m a year old. I’m already this deep of a voice.”
Eric: In truth, we miss Micah. We can’t wait for him to…
Andrew: We do. Of course we do. We just wanted to have a little fun while he’s away. So there isn’t much news to talk about, but we want to mention that LeakyCon is coming up this week, Eric, and you are going to be there.
Eric: Yes! I am, and I want to see anybody else who’s going to be there. So there’s not currently a meetup scheduled for this podcast, but I am doing, I think, four panels throughout the weekend, so just try and attend one of those; I’ll be hanging out after. But there’s a number of cool ones, including Books Versus Movies on Saturday morning. It’s actually an 11:00 a.m. slot, so it’s not too, too early in the morning, but that’s going to be the big one between me and Proma Khosla, and that’s a heck of a lot of fun. And a bunch of others as well, including… there’s two on Potter podcasting. One is called “Keeping it Fresh,” and that’s the one I’m on. And then the other one with other Harry Potter podcast hosts is called “Harry Podder.” Double D, “Harry Podder.”
Andrew: Oh, I get it.
Alex: Brilliant.
Eric: Yeah, I’ll be in the audience for that one. But some good panels and everything at LeakyCon. If you are going, look me up in the schedule. It’s under my name; you can see all the ones I am going to be a part of on the panel. In other words, I’m looking forward to just checking out the programming and hanging at the con this weekend, so if you are there, tweet at me or let me know what you’re up to. And yeah, come say hi.
Andrew: And before we get to Chapter by Chapter today, just a couple of notices. First of all, the Patreon mugs; they have been going out. It’s been so much fun seeing everybody receive their mugs. All domestic orders have been shipped now and should have arrived. We are going to be sending out the international ones probably in a few weeks, Eric, because we want to make sure those are packaged nice and safely for their trip overseas.
Eric: Yeah, so what we saw when we shipped out all the domestic… there were 600 domestic packages, which is real, real impressive, a massive undertaking. A couple of them did get damaged in transit, so we actually have a system in place that we need you to know about, listeners, or patrons specifically. If your mug arrived and it was not 100% up to standard, you please do need to let us know. The whole deal… I mean, we’re replacing them at no cost to anybody who got a broken one, so absolutely, 100% please let us know. You can email me, which my email is Eric@staff.MuggleNet.com. Just two things to keep in mind; there’s a mug receipt form, and my email.
Andrew: Alex and Stefanie, I take it you both received yours?
Alex: Yes, I have, and it came in perfect condition. My husband is actually really jealous, and he’s probably used the mug more times than I have at this point.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Andrew: Nice, glad to hear that. One benefit of supporting us on Patreon is that beginning this year with the mugs, we are going to be sending out a physical gift every year, so if you’ve been thinking about supporting us, now is a great time to sign up. You’ve already missed the mug window, but we have tons of other benefits, and then come 2019 we will be sending out another physical benefit that will be to be determined.
Eric: Yeah, but it probably won’t be fragile. It probably will not be made out of ceramic; I’m just saying that right now. [laughs]
Andrew: We’ll make it something easier to ship next year.
Eric: If you’ve seen these boxes that people are sending in… oh my God. [laughs]
Andrew: But Eric has been doing a great job of keeping it all organized. Every Patreon would be lucky to have him to manage their physical goods.
Eric: Aw, shucks.
Andrew: So good work, Eric.
Eric: Thanks, Andrew.
Andrew: Anyway, before we get to Chapter by Chapter – it is Chapter 2 this week of Half-Blood Prince – and Stefanie and Alex, I’m so glad we have you on because you both said your favorite book is Half-Blood Prince. And I know, Alex, you said this is one of your all-time favorite chapters, the one we’re going to be talking about today. But before we get to that, it’s time to hear from one of our sponsors.
Eric: Yeah, this week’s episode of MuggleCast is brought to you by Puffs the Play. “For seven years, a certain boy wizard went to a certain wizard school and conquered evil. This, however, is not his story. This is the story of the Puffs, who just happened to be there too.”
[Andrew and Stefanie laugh]
Eric: “A tale for anyone who has never been destined to save the world,” reads the bio. Puffs the Play, we’ve had them before as a sponsor of our show. We’re thrilled to be able to let you know about them again. Puffs is playing off-Broadway in New York City at New World Stages, and “the critically acclaimed play gives you a new look at the familiar adventure from the perspective of three potential heroes just trying to make it through a magical school that proves to be very dangerous for children. Their epic journey takes the classic story to new places and reimagines what a boy wizard hero can be.” So I was fortunate enough to see this play in April of this year, and I’ve got to say how refreshing it was to finally see Hufflepuff House get its due. The play absolutely dominated the space that it was in, by the way. New World Stages is an amazing little location and stage, and all the performers delivered a performance that was memorable, funny, and occurred at a breakneck speed. The pacing is such that you barely have time to stop laughing before the next funny line is being delivered, and you never know which character from Harry Potter is about to be roasted next, so it’s good stuff. And also, Australians, the show is in Melbourne still for about another week; it was extended. The final extension for the Melbourne performance is running through August 12 at the Alex Theatre St Kilda, and as far as New York goes, that’ll keep running indefinitely, so that’s fantastic. Hopefully it outlasts Cursed Child. That’s what I want to see happen.
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: Cursed Child closes due to low attendance after 10-15 years; hopefully Puffs will still be there. So if you are considering going to see this Hufflepuff-themed play, we have a discount. It’s a special ticket price for MuggleCast listeners. Visit PuffsThePlay.com/MuggleCast to learn more and access a special ticket price for the show in New York City. Once again, that’s PuffsThePlay.com/MuggleCast. Have you guys seen this show?
Alex: I did get to see it when it was in theaters streaming a couple of months ago.
Andrew: Ooh.
Eric: Yeah! Right.
Alex: And it was amazing. As a fellow Puff, I was in love.
Andrew: Aw, I’m so glad to hear that.
Stefanie: I want to see it so bad.
Eric: There’s a lot to love.
Andrew: Yeah, we’ve had a great relationship with Puffs, and I’m so glad that they wanted to sponsor us, because I mean, it’s so easy to promote this show because we tell people about it, and then we hear back from people who saw it and they’re like, “Oh my God, I loved that. That was so great.” And so it’s just so nice to get the word out about this show. It’s just made by true fans, you know? Thanks again, Puffs. And if you need that link, we will have it on the MuggleCast website for that special deal. PuffsThePlay.com/MuggleCast.
Chapter by Chapter: Main Discussion
Andrew: Okay, so it’s time now for Chapter by Chapter. We’re discussing Half-Blood Prince Chapter 2, “Spinner’s End.” And as I said before the Puffs ad, Alex, you say this is one of your all-time favorite chapters. I just want to start by hearing why that is.
Alex: Yeah, I just love everything about this chapter, from the writing to the plot. But I think the most interesting part for me is to see how people on the other side of the war were interacting with each other, and viewing all of the events that happened. Also, I just, on a personal note, love Draco Malfoy. He’s my favorite character, and this chapter is so important for his development.
Andrew and Eric: Yeah.
Andrew: And then Stefanie, are you on team Snape is Good, or Snape is Bad? Because this is obviously a critical chapter for Snape.
Stefanie: Yeah, I really dislike Snape. I’ve never liked Snape, and I feel like that’s a very controversial opinion, because I see the “Always” everywhere online.
Eric: Oh, God. Don’t get me started on “Always.”
Stefanie: I just hate it. [laughs]
Andrew: Do you two not know love? What is the problem with “Always”? He loves Lily always!
[Eric laughs]
Stefanie: It’s not love!
Alex: My husband and I both ended our wedding vows with “Always” without knowing that for each other…
Andrew: Aww.
Stefanie: Oh my God, I am so sorry.
Alex: … so I am firmly on team “Always.” [laughs]
Andrew: That’s so beautiful. And now, do you have something in the home that says “Always,” and it’s a picture of you two, and did you add a picture of Snape in the corner or something?
Alex: Yep, Snape is actually in between us.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: And do you both have Deathly Hallows tattoos? This is a long-recurring thing for me on this show.
[Alex and Andrew laugh]
Eric: No, but Snape – Snape, Severus Snape – is not as good a guy as the fandom sometimes makes him out to be, that’s for sure. But this is his chapter. This is very, very much his chapter. So Stefanie, you had another comment in here?
Stefanie: Oh, I just… throughout the whole series, I was always kind of disappointed that he was a red herring, in the sense that you thought he was bad, and then he’d come out and he’d be good. And so I definitely thought he was bad, and so I said to myself – because this isn’t from Harry’s perspective – I was like, “Yes, he is really bad, and so it’s not just Harry coloring my opinion.” But even knowing his backstory, I might respect him, but I think he’s just a terrible person.
Eric: He really is. What I love about this coming chapter is he’s still pretty much unreadable. You get a lot of the J.K. Rowling… this isn’t from Snape’s perspective; it’s sort of a third party observer who’s watching him relate to Narcissa and Bellatrix. But he very much is still playing the cards close to the vest there; he’s being forthcoming when he needs to be, but it’s not at all. He’s not endearing or trying to convince anybody; he’s just sort of matter-of-factly going through the steps of answering her question, and doing it a little cheeky. He’s a little cheeky.
Andrew: And I think… something I forgot while rereading this chapter is that at this point in the series, we don’t know what side he is on. So we’re reading this being like, “Oh my gosh, maybe he really is on the Dark side.”
Alex: Yeah, it sets up the end of Book 6 really well, because when he does kill Dumbledore, you’re like, “I knew it! The chapter told me it was bad.”
[Eric and Stefanie laugh]
Eric: Yeah, can you tell this book is going to be about Snape? Maybe we should have… I mean, the opening chapter and then the next one doesn’t have Harry in it, and the second, this is Snape’s chapter. This is a chapter all about Snape; Harry is nowhere to be found. Maybe we should have guessed who the Half-Blood Prince was a lot sooner.
Andrew: Yeah, that’s a great point. I didn’t think about that either.
Eric: Yeah. But it’s crazy that all of the backstory in this chapter – not just its connection to other chapters, which we’ll talk about in a minute – but we get to see Snape’s house! This is presumably where he grew up, and he gets his own servant as well in Wormtail. He’s living… he’s not at Hogwarts for once. And this is what Snape does, I guess, during his summer holidays. He comes here and broods.
Andrew: And this is one of the only looks we get at the personal lives of a Hogwarts teacher, which we’ve discussed before; I think we’ve touched on it with McGonagall. Other than Hagrid’s hut, I don’t think we’ve seen any other professor’s house, other than Slughorn. Or is that just a movie-ism? I mean, that’s a new character at the same time, too.
Eric: Yeah, and that was just the house he was living in – squatting in, essentially.
Andrew: Oh, true. Yeah, he was chairing in.
Eric: Chairing in; that’s the perfect term for that, yeah.
Andrew: But yeah, I mean, it is kind of funny to think about how did Snape pick that house? Just like… we hear that there’s a lot of books and it’s a lot of stone…
Eric: And wait, too many secret compartments, right? The stairs that go upstairs, pretty useful, hidden behind a bookcase. And there’s another secret compartment that leads to the kitchen. What if you legit need to go upstairs or go to the kitchen? How are you going to find those areas of the house? [laughs] They’re both behind secret passageways. I don’t get it.
Andrew: And can you imagine Snape going around with a realtor house-searching?
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: “This one’s not dark enough. I need less windows.”
Eric: “Not enough…”
Stefanie: “Do you have anything dingy?”
Eric: Oh, yeah.
Andrew: Right.
Eric: “Anything musty that looks like it’s not lived in very often?”
Andrew: “I need really bad curb appeal.”
[Alex laughs]
Eric: You know what? I don’t think J.K. Rowling likes clean houses. Or maybe that’s a commentary, how the Dursleys, who are the worst characters in the series, have the most pristine house, but literally everybody else, even Bathilda Bagshot, world-renowned witch, is in this musty old… I mean, I guess that’s because she was dead and dying in it. But even her house… there’s no real nice houses. The Burrow is pleasantly cluttered, but everywhere else…
Alex: That’s true. It actually mentions on Pottermore that this is the house that Snape grew up in, so we know that he grew up here and presumably Lily Evans grew up just a couple blocks down the street. So it’s kind of an interesting look into Lily’s childhood and therefore Harry’s past.
Andrew: Yeah, and it also says something about Snape that he didn’t want to leave that house.
Eric: You know what? He probably does, since he’s at Hogwarts most of the year, the school year. He probably inherited this house and just hasn’t gotten rid of it yet. I’m presuming both of his parents are dead and he would have inherited the house, so he wouldn’t normally live here, except in the summer of this particular year to distance himself from Dumbledore, because he’s working for Voldemort. This seems like a strategic location where he would be located. And then we see Bella and Cissy… which I hate that nickname, but whatever.
Andrew: I hate both of those too.
Stefanie: Me too. They are terrible.
Eric: Just where they can go visit him.
Andrew: So we’re talking about how this chapter connects with previous books and whatnot. There’s lots of references to the previous Harry Potter books here, as Bellatrix tries to have Snape explain himself because she wants to be convinced that Snape is on the Dark Lord’s side. Also, Alex, you found some interesting information about this chapter as well.
Alex: Yeah, going along with the fact that this is where Snape and Lily grew up. In Sorcerer’s Stone when Vernon is going crazy trying to find a place where the family can go that the Hogwarts letters won’t follow them, he goes to Cokeworth, which J.K. later said is the town where Lily and Snape grew up. So it’s kind of interesting that J.K. never explicitly made that connection in the books, because I think Harry would have liked to know he had visited his mother’s hometown before.
Eric: Not only that, but that’s Petunia’s hometown. Why would he take her home to escape magic when even her sister was magic and was born in Cokeworth?
Stefanie: That’s a really good point.
Eric: That actually makes less sense to me. Clearly magic is alive and well in Cokeworth if her own sister obviously grew up there. I wonder if there was additional motivation that simply didn’t make it into Book 1? Of course, we can’t hold everything J.K. Rowling says in 2018 up to whatever she was thinking or doing in ’93. But yeah, I’m confused about that.
Andrew: And speaking of connecting the threads here, Wormtail finally reappears. He was absent for all of Book 5.
Eric: Yeah, I’m let down by this. Is anybody else let down by this?
Andrew: What, that he was absent and then he returns and that’s it?
Eric: Yeah, I think because there was a lot of speculation. We waited three years after Goblet of Fire to get Book 5, and it was another two years before Book 6 came out. That’s five years of wondering what Pettigrew’s next step is going to be after successfully reviving the Dark Lord and being rewarded with a super awesome silver hand. I mean, we felt for sure he was destined to kill Lupin; he was going to be restored to honor and dignity and be a pretty terrifying presence in the Harry Potter series. No, he’s pouring wine for Snape and hiding behind corners in Snape’s childhood home.
Andrew: Because he’s a rat, figuratively and literally. This guy is just kind of useless. Yeah, he came back and revived Voldemort, and he does deserve some some credit for that – which is a weird thing for me to say, being a good person…
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: … but he’s just down in the gutter. He’s just kind of a useless thing that only comes into play when Voldemort needs him.
Eric: You know what, Andrew? I’m going to go out on a limb and say that’s what the Marauders thought, too, and they were wrong. He proved them wrong.
Andrew: [laughs] Yeah. Well, I mean, speaking of that, Stefanie, you wanted to bring up a point about this is Snape interacting with Wormtail for the first time, as far as we see.
Stefanie: Yeah, and I thought it was… I remember reading this the first time and thinking… well, not the first time, but the first time I reread it after the whole series, and thinking to myself, “Oh my goodness, this is the first time that we’ve seen them together.” And Snape had this huge love for Lily, and then Wormtail is essentially the reason why she was killed, because without that, he would never have been able to get through the Fidelius Charm. So you have Snape, who did all this stuff for Lily, who’s now living in the home with Wormtail. And he has a bed, because he says, “Go to your room,” basically, to Wormtail, so they’re living together and it’s crazy. [laughs]
Eric: [in a sing-song voice] Snape and Peter, roommates!
Andrew: Yeah, it’s like one of those awkward scripted comedy shows. Like, “What will happen when Snape and Wormtail live together? Find out Tuesdays at 8!”
Eric: [imitating Snape] “The fork goes on the right side, Wormtail. How many times do I have to tell you? The spoon is on the left.”
[Stefanie laughs]
Andrew: And I mean, we know Snape hates this guy, right?
Stefanie: Right, but I mean, Voldemort seems to not care about him very much either. So I don’t know if that’s a running theme throughout the Death Eaters, or it’s just specific to Snape because he really loathes him, so it’s kind of an interesting dynamic between the two of them.
Andrew: Yeah, yeah.
Alex: This brings up one of the only things that I didn’t like about the chapter, which is that they do all call him “Wormtail.” I mean, “Wormtail” was one of the secret jokes that the Marauders had between them, and so I’m just picturing Bellatrix calling Sirius “Padfoot” or Voldemort talking about killing “Lily and Prongs,” and it just felt out of place to be calling him “Wormtail.”
Eric: Right, because that’s Harry’s parents’ name for him.
Alex: Right.
Stefanie: Well, Voldemort calls him Wormtail too, though.
Eric: Well, I think it’s advantageous in Book 4, first of all from a writing standpoint, for them to use code names because Voldemort and Wormtail are on the run, and it succeeds at confusing generations of listeners who maybe didn’t read the previous books, like me, who just picked up Book 4 and then were like, “What? Who’s Wormtail? Stupid name.” But it is kind of weird that it would be adopted by the Dark side, I guess, that Wormtail would have let slip… it’s convenient because it makes it easy for them to think of him as less than human by calling him “Wormtail,” by this weird, awkward nickname. I think it’s used… the way the Death Eaters use it make it like he’s less than human, like he doesn’t deserve a human name.
Stefanie: Right.
Eric: And for us as readers, for fans of Lily and James, he’s beneath contempt for what he did to them. So we don’t mind it either, but it is kind of weird. You’re right. No other Death Eater has a nickname.
Andrew: So to get into particular moments that occur in this chapter, just as a wide overview, first, as we’ve been touching on, this chapter is all about Narcissa, Bellatrix, and Snape. The two ladies are heading to Snape’s to question his loyalty, and for Narcissa to ask Snape to vow he will kill Dumbledore if Draco can’t pull it off, which is described in kind of broad terms at first.
Eric: Yeah, we don’t know that that’s what Draco has been sent to do, but it very obviously is… you can tell by the fear that Narcissa displays – and she’s begging and pleading, and really, really, really, really begging Snape to protect her son – that whatever the Dark Lord has chosen for Draco to do is going to be very dangerous.
Andrew: Yeah, yeah. And this chapter is brilliant because Snape is playing both of them simultaneously. For Bellatrix, this thing is about trying to trust Snape, and Snape is sitting there, coming up with all these very valid excuses. And then for Narcissa, this scene is about protecting Draco, and Snape is like, “Oh, yeah, I will do it. No problem. What’s unbreakable about this? No problem.” [laughs] But this has been the plan all along anyway.
Eric: Yeah, it either has, or the general… I tend to view it one of two ways. It’s either that this was the plan all along, that Snape would be the one to do it, or as soon as this chapter ends – and of course, we go back to Harry – Snape obviously informs Dumbledore of the parameters of the Unbreakable Vow, and then they’re able to tailor the rest of the year towards that. I think Dumbledore does know he is not only a marked man, but his days are numbered due to that curse that he recently sustained, and I think that because of this vow, that kind of solidifies plans that were already in order. I think the general direction had already been figured out, but once this vow happens, that sets in stone the events that lead to this, the night at the Astronomy Tower at the end of the book. That’s what I tend to think happened.
Andrew: Eric, you were also wondering how much Voldemort knows about Dumbledore’s injury.
Eric: Yeah, he brings this… so Snape is very brilliant, very methodical and meticulous about explaining himself. He actually tackles all seven or eight of Bellatrix’s questions in the order in which she bellowed them, which is very… I mean, I guess it’s just a writing thing, that it’s all convenient, but he goes one by one and is able to itemize every one of her questions and address. But he lets slip that Dumbledore was recently injured, and he plays it off like, “Oh, you know, his reflexes aren’t what they once were,” thinking that Bellatrix and Narcissa won’t think much more of it. But if Snape actually… I’ve wrote that it’s a hazard for Snape because if anybody asks how Dumbledore injured himself – we know it was because he was destroying a Horcrux – that’s obviously big news for Voldemort, if Voldemort finds out what Dumbledore was up to.
Andrew: Right, right.
Eric: So it’s kind of reckless, right? For Snape to even mention the injury to one of his close Death Eaters.
Andrew: But I think the point was to say, “Oh, he’s falling apart. Dumbledore isn’t what he used to be; he’s got this injury now, so we could easily take him down.” Wasn’t that the purpose of it?
Eric: Yeah, very much like, “Oh, Draco might be able to handle it, because Dumbledore is slower now.”
Alex: I also think that one of Dumbledore’s greatest strengths, or deception, is that he plays himself off as this whimsical old man that’s kind of out of touch with reality, so based on what most people think of Dumbledore, I don’t think it’d be all that surprising to say he was tinkering with something in his office and caused an injury that way.
Eric: Yeah, so do we think that’s what Snape would say if he ever gets questioned? “Oh, you know, just a cauldron explosion or something.” [laughs]
Andrew: “Oh, Dumbledore was pairing his socks, and one of them came to life and bit two of his fingers off, and now his hand is rotting.”
[Eric laughs]
Stefanie: For me it seems like, okay, so Dumbledore is this real… everybody knows he’s a powerful wizard; he is formidable to face. It just kind of seems to me, like, what story could be good enough that would explain how he got injured?
Eric: Because he… I mean, Snape would have to do some work. I mean, Dumbledore really just destroyed a Horcrux here. [laughs] That would give away the game way too early. So it was interesting just hearing Snape slip up; I wanted to point that out.
Andrew: Yeah. Concerning the Unbreakable Vow, I already touched on my point.
Eric: Yeah, I just want to say in that moment, part of why this works, why this chapter works so well for Snape, is I think he was already willing to protect Draco. He was already willing to take responsibility. As the double agent, Snape has already assumed the full responsibility for bringing Voldemort down – the Death Eaters just don’t know it yet – and also for infiltrating their ranks and getting Voldemort’s trust. And so I think to a certain point, Snape at the beginning of this chapter, before the Unbreakable Vow, already had vowed or agreed to do what it is that Narcissa asked him to do, and I think it’s Narcissa’s emotional state, her sobbing, her worrying, her fear, that means that when she does make the Unbreakable Vow, the parameters of what she makes Snape vow to are kind of… I don’t want to say weak, but they’re vague enough, right? They’re just vague enough that by the end of the book, or by the aftermath of this book, we were able to see how Snape and Dumbledore together really made that work for them. I think it’s in Book 7 where we really get that detail in the Pensieve about how they had to kind of work around Snape’s vow in order to make sure Snape didn’t get killed and die for breaking it.
Andrew: I’m also wondering if Snape was expecting either of them to come over. Because we never really get that answered, and yet he seemed very prepared to do all these things. [laughs]
Eric: Yeah, I think it’s one of the only times he smiles in the series. He’s like, “Narcissa! Come in.”
Andrew: Yeah, and like… I don’t know, I would probably need a few days to mentally prepare to make an Unbreakable Vow. It seems like a big deal that I’d have to think about for a little bit, and yet somebody’s coming over and is like, “Make the Unbreakable Vow with me so I can trust you!”
[Eric laughs]
Alex: I mean, he has all summer to be brooding over it, so he’s probably just sitting in that dusty library, just pondering what’s going to happen.
Andrew: True.
Alex: That’s why he can answer all of Bellatrix’s questions in his head. He’s one of those people that comes up with questions and answers them in their head.
Andrew: Do you think he expected Bellatrix or Narcissa to come over at some point?
Alex: Probably. I would think Narcissa… I think Bellatrix kind of was a surprise to him, based on the way that he received the two of them differently.
Eric: Yeah, and an unpleasant one. Nobody likes Bellatrix. She’s not… she’s… what’s the word? Fractured a little bit, and I think the fact that she’s there adds an element of unpredictability to the whole situation, volatility to the whole situation. I think because Snape has already answered the questions to Voldemort, too, the same ones he gives to Bella, he already has it all figured out, like you said. I do agree; he’s the kind of person who runs through these things in his head, but he’s already faced the highest scrutiny he ever will by answering these to the satisfaction of Voldemort. Bellatrix is just a child’s play thing, comparatively, and we see her get stumped. We see her unsure for the first time after he answers all her questions, and she really gets slightly put into her place with his narrative.
Alex: Right.
Andrew: So moving on to this particular line, which is now very interesting given the events of Cursed Child: There’s a moment here where Narcissa is like, “Oh, I don’t want Draco to get involved in this,” and of course, Bellatrix – a Voldemort superfan, a die hard, who would die for the Dark Lord – Bellatrix says, “You should be proud that your son is fighting! If I had sons, I would be glad to give them up to the service of the Dark Lord!”
Eric: Yep.
Andrew: So she uses the word “sons,” which is interesting, and fits what the canon introduced in the Cursed Child.
[Micah and Stefanie laugh]
Andrew: But you also have to remember that Delphi was born around this time. She was born before the Battle of Hogwarts.
Eric: Well, the Battle of Hogwarts is over 18 months away at this point.
Andrew: Right, but it still fits. I mean, I’m arguing that this is one particular line that suggests that Bellatrix actually would have wanted to have a child with Voldemort, because perhaps in this moment, Bellatrix realized that she should talk to Voldemort into doing the deed.
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: Because she realizes that “Maybe we do need others to join the fight,” or “Maybe I need to have a child to fight for Voldemort.”
Eric: Yeah, Bellatrix definitely proves that she would be willing to put the Dark Lord first over the wellbeing of her child. She’s actually berating Narcissa for caring so much about Draco’s wellbeing. In fact, it’s a suicide mission that Lord Voldemort has put Draco on! Can we talk about that? That’s crazy, and it’s all for punishment of Lucius’s failings. Everybody agrees. Snape agrees, Voldemort agrees, Bellatrix agrees, and Narcissa agrees that Draco is not going to succeed at killing Dumbledore, and he will probably die trying. And yet… so Bellatrix tells Narcissa, “Hey, if I had sons, they’d be lucky to serve the Dark Lord.” It’s just twisted. It shows how devoted to him that Bellatrix is, and you’re right, I think that gives her an advantage when trying to woo him if… I can’t even say that with a straight face.
[Andrew laughs]
Stefanie: “Woo Voldemort.”
[Alex laughs]
Eric: Yeah, if she’s trying to convince him, “Hey, we need more followers or loyal… nothing more loyal than blood.” I don’t know.
Alex: Yeah, also with the fact that he is punishing Lucius through Draco, it does show that he kind of views sons and daughters as an extension of oneself, which would make it a little bit easier to convince him to have kids. I feel like to him, it almost seems like it’s another version of the Horcrux, where he can live on.
Andrew: Also kind of disturbing that Bellatrix is like, “Yeah, Voldemort can punish the children of the parents. No problem. Who cares?” [laughs]
Eric: Yep, the sins of the father, right, should not be visited on the… it’s very not biblical.
Andrew: Yeah. Something else I noticed about this chapter: Bellatrix has a really hard time of being convinced of Snape’s loyalty, but as Snape repeatedly brings up, Voldemort trusts him, and that’s all that Bellatrix should need, right? Why is Bellatrix having such a hard time? Is this J.K. Rowling foreshadowing Snape’s loyalty? What do you think’s going on here? Why can’t Bellatrix just go with it?
Eric: I think it underscores just how much Bellatrix is in the Dark Lord’s pocket, because she’s the one that’s going to scrutinize Snape more than Voldemort does, right? She cares about Voldemort so much that she’s going to still not trust this slimy double agent guy. And I mean, because he is already, I think, at least a single agent or a double agent. Yeah, they all think he’s tricking Dumbledore for Voldemort, when, in fact, he’s pretending to trick Dumbledore for Voldemort while tricking Voldemort for Dumbledore. So they already know his trustworthiness is in question. Bellatrix is that one follower who’s really just going to have to see it for herself to believe it, because that’s what she owes the Dark Lord in terms of being over-scrutinizing.
Stefanie: I also think that if Voldemort isn’t telling any of his Death Eaters what conversations he’s having with Snape… I mean, just like the reader; we’re kind of on the outside going, “How is this all working? How is he…? Because he didn’t go join them right after the Dark Mark burned, how is he going to explain that?” And I think that as the reader, we’re trying to figure it out, too, how did he go there? And how was what he said adequate to Voldemort?
Eric: That is a good point. We learned all throughout Order of the Phoenix that Snape was doing the double agent thing, and I guess this was a much-needed answer. This was more important than “Where’s Wormtail?” This was “How is Snape keeping up this facade?”
Andrew: Yeah. It also makes you wonder, how would Bellatrix have reacted to realizing that Snape actually was on Dumbledore’s side?
[Stefanie laughs]
Eric: I mean, she would have tried to… she would have dueled him to the death then and there.
Andrew: Yeah, tried to. But I actually wrote down here, “Who would win, Snape or Bellatrix?” And Stefanie and Alex, sounds like you both think Snape.
Alex: Yeah, I definitely think Snape. Just with Bellatrix, her power seems to be so raw and emotional, whereas Snape is so calculated and able to separate his emotions from his task at hand.
Andrew: Right. She’s messy, right, Stefanie?
Stefanie: Yeah, and she’s very emotional, too. But I mean, I personally would have really liked to see Snape actually fight, because anytime that we see him duel, it’s either at the Dueling Club, which isn’t really dueling, and then also with McGonagall, which he was obviously trying to save and not kill and then he jumps out a window. So I would have really liked to see that, because he seems to be a very accomplished wizard.
Eric: Not only has he made his own spells, but he has wandless magic and nonverbal magic.
Stefanie: Right.
Eric: So every time… I think when Harry tries to attack him at the end of this book, and he’s literally being Protego‘d or blocked before he can even… before the words can leave his lips, Snape is blocking him nonverbally. It’s insane. He would absolutely win in a duel, probably against many wizards.
Andrew: Oh, yeah.
Eric: In fact, Voldemort doesn’t even duel him; he sets the snake on him.
Andrew: [laughs] Right.
Eric: Because Voldemort doesn’t want to lose a fight either.
[Alex and Andrew laugh]
Andrew: But probably not something he would admit to, losing to Snape. So let’s talk about Narcissa. She clearly is looking out for Draco in this chapter. I wonder, does Narcissa already care more…? At this point in the timeline, does Narcissa already care more about protecting her family than Voldemort winning? Because by Deathly Hallows, she clearly just wants to take care of her family, save her family. But does she this early on? Is she already set?
Eric: I like the question. I think that Narcissa as a character… I mean, this is really the only time we get Narcissa as a character until that scene in the forest. Unless I’m misremembering some major thing with Narcissa, the only time we’ve seen her before is the Quidditch World Cup; Harry says to Draco that she looks like she’s got dung under her nose or something. She’s barely in this series. To get her to come out to Snape, plead for the life of her son… clearly, what Voldemort has done has shaken her faith in Voldemort, because he’s just behaving childishly, immaturely to demand, essentially, the sacrifice of her son, of her first born, her only child, for his gratification because of what her husband failed to do a month ago? That clearly shakes Narcissa’s faith to her core and her beliefs, and so I think if she’s not all the way there, she’s staunchly on her way.
Alex: I agree with that completely.
Eric: It just doesn’t… she hasn’t really had an opportunity in this Harry Potter series for us to be like, “Oh, what’s she thinking?” But she definitely was one of those people who enjoys the status and the power and the privilege. I guess I would contrast her from Lucius by saying Lucius likes the power and the privilege and the esteem of being in the circles that he is, but I think Lucius is also genuinely probably a racist, genuinely probably a bad dude. Narcissa has her upbringing and her now family to thank for her positions, but she’s very much seen to value the life of the ones that she loves over any kind of duty to the Dark Lord.
Andrew: Yeah, I agree with that.
Eric: I don’t know. I mean, it takes Lucius longer to make the same decision.
Alex: Right.
Andrew: And would we stack her with Molly and Lily in that she looks out for her family first? Yes, she’s on the Dark side, but perhaps at this point, not willingly on the Dark side? And her protection of Draco and her husband plays into this family love/loyalty theme that we see throughout the books.
Alex: I think that’s a tough question to answer, especially because we are so tainted in our view of the family, because everything we get is from Harry’s perspective. But based purely on the love that she has for her family, I would say that it’s probably up there with Molly and Lily.
Stefanie: Well, for me, it’s just a little bit disappointing that she has all this love for her family, but I mean, to not realize that Voldemort doesn’t necessarily care about his followers, and to put her family in danger like that, you kind of see them go through this process of being downgraded. And finally, when they’re in Malfoy Manor, you can just tell that they’re completely dejected, and so it’s… I don’t know. And in my opinion, I feel like Molly and Lily were so courageous and so strong and always put their family first, and I feel like the Malfoys were a little bit shortsighted in what Voldemort’s plans were.
Eric: That’s a really good point, Stefanie. Do you think that Narcissa should have defected pretty much right after Lucius failed at the Ministry and was imprisoned? That Narcissa should have maybe taken Draco to Dumbledore for protection?
Stefanie: I mean, I really feel like they didn’t have a choice at that point. I mean, it seems like once you’re in it, you’re in it. And I think at this point, Narcissa just wanted to survive and make sure her family was okay.
Eric: But I mean, if that’s her goal, though, if that is her goal, I think everyone… I don’t think any Death Eater is unclear on what the path is that they’re going down to. I mean, their path is war. Their path is upheaval of the government, war…
Stefanie: Right.
Eric: I think if Narcissa really cared about her family, she would probably take her son and get out, right?
Stefanie: Right, and you always think you’d go to Dumbledore, but I don’t know. I mean, if you had been on that side for so long, you might be scared of him.
Andrew: They would probably have to live at Hogwarts in order to be safe, too. I mean, where are they going to go? Voldemort is going to tell his followers to go kill her.
Eric: Well, Grimmauld Place. You could put them in Grimmauld Place.
Andrew: Yeah. But does Sirius want…? Well, he’s dead at this point. Sorry, maybe too soon.
[Alex laughs]
Eric: Well, I mean… oh, she would even… she’s a Black; Kreacher could serve her.
Andrew: Oh, that’s a good point.
Eric: Yeah. Geez, I didn’t even think about that.
Andrew: I don’t think anybody would want Narcissa in Grimmauld Place, though.
Eric: No, nobody would, but everybody would, I think, indulge Dumbledore, though.
Andrew: I guess.
Eric: If she had taken Draco to Dumbledore and said, “I fear for my son’s life, and can you help me in any way?”, Dumbledore would have said yes, and he probably would have… we know how much he loves the Fidelius Charm, so he would have probably said… and Snape would have allowed that to happen, and Snape would have put additional protections on, I think, Narcissa. I don’t know. It would have been a vastly different series, obviously.
Andrew: If I’m living at Grimmauld Place, though, I’m like, “Hey, Dumbledore. I mean, Hogwarts is a lot bigger. Can’t she just sleep there? I mean, we’re kind of… we’re getting cramped here in Grimmauld.”
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: There’s always Extension Charms.
Andrew: Well, so I wanted to bring up this point now from Alex. You wanted to touch on something about Draco.
Alex: Yeah, I just think that this chapter reveals a lot to look forward to in this book because in all of the past books, the trio – but particularly Harry – always assumes that Malfoy is the bad guy in the book, like when in the Chamber of Secrets, they think he’s the Heir of Slytherin, but Draco always turns out to be a red herring. But with this chapter, J.K. clues us in from the very beginning of this book that Malfoy does have some sort of sinister role to play, so it’s one of the only times in the series that the reader has info that the trio doesn’t. So I was just wondering if having this extra info changed the way you read the book or viewed the interactions with the characters.
Stefanie: Well, for me personally, it did, because I was so frustrated the whole entire book…
Eric: Augh, thank you.
Stefanie: … because you see Harry go through all this terrible… he’s witnessing these things, he has really great intuition, and nobody believes him. They all think he’s crazy, and it was really frustrating for me because we have that chapter and because we have all that knowledge that Harry doesn’t.
Eric: Yeah. Huge, huge source of frustration for me as well. I wasn’t nearly as frustrated as I was all Book 5, but this is tough. He’s like, “Oh, Draco is evil,” and everybody’s like, “Oh, not you and Draco again. You’re always talking about how Draco is a bad guy. Come on, Harry, get off it.”
[Andrew and Stefanie laugh]
Andrew: Jumping over to the chat right now, we have a bunch of people listening live on Patreon.com/MuggleCast. Concerning Lily and Molly, Isaac says, “I think she potentially sacrifices just as much for her family as Lily and Molly. She puts herself directly in danger of Voldemort when she says Harry is dead in order to stop the battle, just like Lily placed herself between Harry and Voldemort, and Molly put herself between Bellatrix and Ginny.”
Eric: She gets there eventually, but Narcissa does it at the 11th hour.
Andrew: Yeah, when there’s… yeah, but still. I mean, that takes guts, because she definitely could have died at the hand of Voldemort. But he died, luckily.
Crackpot Theory
Andrew: Okay, so Eric…
Eric: So we’re doing some of these… we’re doing a number of fun segments as a part of our chapter reread, and for this particular chapter, I came up with one: We’re going to have a little crackpot theory session. This segment has existed before on MuggleCast, but it’s going to be a little different. Anyway, I was reading this chapter, and based on a throwaway line, I have come up with a crackpot theory that I’m going to present to you guys now for your thoughts…
Andrew: Uh-oh.
[Stefanie laughs]
Eric: … and I’m going to say that Bellatrix has a Fidelius Charm guarding a major secret of hers. So the reason I brought up the Fidelius Charm that Dumbledore uses to conceal Grimmauld Place from the Death Eaters… when that gets mentioned as Snape is going through the history of things, Snape specifically says to Bellatrix, when she asks, “Why haven’t you told him,” meaning the Dark Lord, “the location?” He says, “I am not the Secret Keeper; I cannot speak the name of the place. You understand how the enchantment works, I think?”
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: And I took that to mean that Snape knows that Bellatrix has used the Fidelius Charm to hide a big, major secret in her life. So what if that’s true? What would Bellatrix need to hide, and who is she hiding it from?
Andrew: She had a child. That’s what she’s hiding.
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: Snape knows, because Snape seems to know everything.
Eric: Snape delivered the child.
[Alex laughs]
Andrew: Oh, God. Oh, no.
Eric: He gave her a potion to make it easy… I don’t know.
Andrew: [imitating Snape] “Push, Bellatrix. Push. Push.”
Eric: Yeah, maybe.
Andrew: Snape and Micah sound like each other, come to think of it. Slow, deep…
Eric: And you know, I’ve never seen them in the same room at the same time.
Andrew: [laughs] Yeah, I mean, I think you bring up a good point here. Snape’s tone, it’s either sarcasm or… well, it could potentially be sarcasm referencing something he knows of.
Eric: Yeah, he could be insulting her intelligence, which I think is not below him, to be like, “You know how it works, right? I can’t tell. I would tell; I can’t tell. You know how it works.” But if you read it a certain way, it seems like he’s saying, “You know the Fidelius Charm intimately, Bellatrix.”
Andrew: Right.
Eric: I wonder if it’s also to… maybe the secret is that she’s guarding a Horcrux, because Voldemort gave a Horcrux to Lucius and he gave a Horcrux to Bellatrix, and Bellatrix, in this chapter, is all about “We share everything together.” Maybe she is hinting that there’s some kind of a charm protecting the vault at Gringotts, and only because Griphook or whoever it is that’s a goblin that maybe has different rules of magic that allow him to say that the contents of her vault do include this thing, whereas otherwise that would not be known or able to be done based on the charm that might be involved around her vault.
Andrew: That makes sense.
Alex: Yeah, that is an interesting idea. It kind of brings up the loophole, though, of why would you just not put it on every single thing that you wanted to keep a secret? But I think that is really interesting to think that she had a Fidelius Charm on the vault.
Eric: Or something.
Alex: Right.
Andrew: Yeah, you would think there would be extra layers of security with something so important, and that could have been one of them.
Eric: But I mean, we do keep hearing how Gringotts itself has a layer of security times 1,000.
Andrew: Right, right.
Eric: It’s just that a bunch of teenagers break into it successfully…
Andrew: [laughs] Right.
Eric: … that makes us question that. It’s like me and the Ministry of Magic in Cursed Child, which is the second time that children break into it. But anyway, that was fun. But now let’s…
Andrew: That’s a crackpot theory. I mean, if Cursed Child hadn’t… I may have looked at this chapter the same way as you, and been like, “Why does she say sons? Why not daughters either?” I know because Draco is a boy, but it seems weird to leave out daughters. Would Bellatrix have treated a daughter the same way?
Eric: Probably not. Bellatrix strikes me as being sexist against women. I think it’s true.
MVP of the Week
Andrew: Okay, so MVP of the Week. Who was the most valuable player in this week’s chapter? And part of the game here is that we each have to pick somebody different; we can’t pick the same. So I’ll go first. I’m going to say those elves for having to make human wine! We learn about that in this chapter. This is the only reference we get. These poor elves. They have enough to do; now they have to go around stomping grapes for humans?
[Alex and Eric laugh]
Stefanie: Are they house-elves, you think? Or other types of elves? Or what?
Andrew: Well, it just said elf-made wine, I believe.
Eric: It is a good question.
Andrew: So I’m kind of assuming it’s house-elves, or house-elves adjacent. These poor people. I mean, do they have to do everything? What’s next? They make beer. We already know they clean homes.
Eric: Well, if it were an option for them, maybe they’d love to have a wine connoisseur elf. Winky would be perfect for that.
Alex: Yes. [laughs]
Andrew: Red by Winky.
Eric: Winky would definitely be the taste tester for an elving wine outfit. That would be great. Yeah, I think, too, it’s probably house-elves. J.K. Rowling had that comment that there are no little people at Hogwarts, when she refuted whatever it was that they wanted to do in Movie 3, because Alfonso wanted to put in a race of little people or something, and J.K. Rowling was like, “No.” So I think that in terms of elves, the only elves in the Harry Potter world are house-elves. I don’t think that there are woodland tree elves or anything like that in that universe, so it probably is house-elves.
Andrew: Eric, who was your MVP of the Week?
Eric: My MVP was the Unbreakable Vow, which is not a person, but in terms of what it does for the story. Like I said, I really think it helps shape the future of not only this book, but the series. The fact that J.K. Rowling is able to introduce this little unknown piece of magic… pretty cool stuff. Or maybe she brings it back. Does Ron bring it up before this moment in the series, or after this moment in the series when he says…?
Stefanie: After.
Eric: After? Okay, great. So this is…
Stefanie: Because I didn’t know what the Unbreakable Vow… what the consequences were, because when you read it, you don’t know what the consequences are until…
Eric: It’s still unclear, because Ron says you die, but Ron could be wrong.
Andrew: It is still unclear. And that’s very Ron, to have a dramatic idea like that. “You die.”
[Stefanie laughs]
Eric: I mean, I tend to believe it is death because the stakes are so high, but Ron can be… it’s unverified. “Okay, cool.”
Andrew: And I’m just looking at the Lexicon, and in Chapter 16 we learn the Weasley twins tried to get Ron to make one when he was about 5, but Arthur caught them at it. It makes sense; as an older brother, you would be like, “Hey, Ron, if you don’t follow this Unbreakable Vow, you die.” It’s a dramatic thing to say.
Eric: Yeah, “You stand on one leg for the rest of your life, or you die.”
Andrew: Right.
Eric: But I think the reason that I think it was Molly that got so mad at Fred after that was because the stakes are death. Maybe that’s why, right? Like, “You could have actually killed your brother, so you are in a big, major timeout. I’m more angry with you than I have ever been, because the stakes are so high.” So yeah, J.K. Rowling introduces this little piece of magic right at the end of this chapter, and it forever changes the course of the series. MVP for me.
Alex: I think we’re all…
Andrew: Stefanie, who’s…? Go ahead, Alex.
Alex: I was just going to say I think we’re all hoping that we’ll learn more about the Unbreakable Vow now that Fantastic Beasts is potentially going to have one in it between Dumbledore and Grindelwald.
Eric: I love that theory.
Alex: Me too.
Andrew: Stefanie, who’s your MVP?
Stefanie: Okay, so even though I’m not a Snape fan, I definitely think Snape is the MVP because man, he is so good at playing his part. Everybody’s convinced that they’re on his side, and he’s just so smart. But also as an aside, I also think Narcissa for putting up with the nickname Cissy, which I hate.
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: Isn’t it so fitting that her nickname is Cissy and she’s Bellatrix’s sissy as well?
Stefanie: Yeah, just having Bellatrix call her Cissy was just… it just threw me.
Eric: It shows how immature Bellatrix is. It’s such a childish name.
Andrew: Yeah. And then Alex, finally?
Alex: Yeah, I said the MVP was Wormtail because his impressive levels of denial for being Snape’s servant. He just cannot accept it.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: Yeah. And Snape is almost kind to him in a moment, when he’s like, “Oh, well, we can talk to the Dark Lord about finding something else for you to do,” and I think he meant it seriously. I was like, “Wow, that’s kind of nice of Snape.”
Eric: It’s such a veiled threat. It’s like, “Oh yeah, we can give you more dangerous missions if you don’t want to go fetch the wine.”
Andrew: [laughs] Which I would think that sounds appealing to Wormtail, given what he’s done so far.
Rename the Chapter
Andrew: And now let’s rename the chapter. So what if we didn’t call it “Spinner’s End”? What if it was something a little more fun, a little more to the point? My idea is Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince Chapter 2, “No, Harry’s not in this one, either.”
[Eric and Stefanie laugh]
Stefanie: That one’s my favorite.
Eric: She should have done a 38-chapter book with no Harry in it. [laughs]
Andrew: Oh my God. Could you imagine if fans…? They’d be so pissed.
Eric: It would have been crazy buildup for him reappearing in Book 7 to take on Voldemort, right? To have an entire year from outside his perspective. Anyway, my alternate title for this chapter: Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince Chapter 2, “Requiem for a fox.”
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: The chapter opens up, and you know what? We knew that J.K. Rowling was building up for Book 7 when she started killing small animals, innocent, helpless, defenseless animals like Hedwig, but she started on this fox.
Andrew: Poor fox.
Eric: I feel real bad for it.
Alex: The forgotten hero.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Andrew: MVP.
Eric: It just wanted… it’s living by this dirty river. It was eyeing some trash hopefully, an old fish and chip wrapper. It just wanted some food, trying to make its living. Come on, J.K. I mean, that hurt worse than Hedwig when I read it again.
Andrew: I was just going to say, this is kind of preparing us for the blow of losing Hedwig. How about you, Stefanie?
Stefanie: [laughs] So mine was Half-Blood Prince Chapter 2, “Wormtail, you mad, bro?”
[Eric laughs]
Stefanie: I just loved how Wormtail slams the door and is sent to his room by Snape, so that’s what I came up with.
Andrew: [laughs] And last but not least, Alex.
Alex: All right, I’ve got Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince Chapter 2, “Tinker Tailor Soldier Snape.”
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Love it.
Alex: Feel like that espionage plays a big role.
Eric: Oh, yeah.
Andrew: I see what you did there.
Eric: John le Carré could have written this chapter.
Andrew: So believe it or not, on our next episode we will discuss Half-Blood Prince Chapter 3, and Harry will be in that one along with several other characters. J.K. Rowling got all these introductory moments out of the way. So if you have any questions or comments about the third chapter, email MuggleCast@gmail.com or go to MuggleCast.com and you can use the feedback form on the website. Or maybe you want to call in with a voicemail; we’d love to hear your voice. 1-920-3-MUGGLE; that’s 1-920-368-4453. Or tweet us; we have a ton of ways to get in touch with us. There are no excuses, and we really want to get your feedback about the chapter. So thank you in advance. Read along with us; we’re having a little book club.
Eric: Yeah, please do.
Quizzitch
Andrew: All right, Eric, it’s time for some Quizzitch.
Eric: For Quizzitch, last week’s question: On what floor of Grunnings, the drill company, is Vernon Dursley’s office located? This is going back to Book 1, Chapter 1, and the answer is the ninth floor. The quote from the chapter is “Mr. Dursley always sat with his back to the window in his office on the ninth floor. If he hadn’t, he might have found it harder to concentrate on drills that morning. He didn’t see the owls swooping past in broad daylight…” So it is ninth floor. Congratulations to everyone who got this right. We did get a couple of guesses for seventh floor, which is wrong. The correct answer is the ninth floor, and it was submitted to us by Natalie, Asim, Ryan, Homechikki… that might be my new favorite one, next to Count Ravioli. Homechikki.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Justin Noel, Count Ravioli – of course, the aforementioned – Robyn, Vanessa, Sean, Lauren, Sonal, Cameron, Joshua, Jess, Charlie, and Sara a.k.a. Weensie. Congratulations; you have won Quizzitch this week.
Andrew: You won an open bar for 20 people.
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: For two hours.
Eric: Gotta figure out how we’re going to use that. It’s going to be good fun.
Andrew: I know.
Stefanie: That was amazing. I can’t believe that.
Andrew: Isn’t that crazy? Have either of you done Harry Potter trivia nights?
Stefanie: I want to so bad. I just can’t… I don’t have any Harry Potter friends at all.
Andrew: Aww.
Stefanie: [laughs] I know. Isn’t that sad?
Andrew: Send us along. We can join you via FaceTime. How about you, Alex?
Alex: I attempted to go to one last week, actually, for Harry’s birthday party. One of our local bookstores did it, and it was so packed that it wasn’t even worth trying. [laughs]
Andrew: Ohh. Yeah, I know with the ones that we go to, we have to put our name down far in advance. They have a registration period.
Alex: That’s smart.
Eric: I mean, there were 45 separate teams, all of six people last night, or four to six people.
Andrew: Yeah, it was huge. The one bar we go to, it has a big area in the back to host these trivia nights, which they do weekly. Different themes.
Eric: But if you try and get in any of these smaller bar ones, it’s so much more difficult. You’ve got to get there pretty much during the work day, which, going to a bar during a work day, not the easiest thing. Next week’s Quizzitch question, though, is… we’re back on track. I couldn’t find any specific facts from Chapter 2; that’s why this past week’s was a different chapter. But this next week’s question for Quizzitch does entail stuff from Chapter 3, which we’re going to read. And that question is: What piece of Muggle technology did Harry fix that he relies on in Chapter 3 of Half-Blood Prince? So Harry’s got something of a… he’s a gear head or something. Fred and George took some lessons of electrical engineering or something.
Andrew: Speaking of next week, we’re not entirely sure what we’re doing next week. I’m not sure if we’re going to have a episode; a couple of things are in the air. So if we aren’t here next week, sorry in advance, but we will be back the week after that. Just some things came up that…
Eric: Yeah, travel is a little bit wonky; we’re not sure when exactly we can sit down to record. So like Andrew said, I would kind of prepare for there not being an episode, but we may have a surprise as well.
Andrew: But we will keep everybody posted on Twitter.com/MuggleCast and Facebook.com/MuggleCast, and on Patreon as well. And speaking of Patreon, thanks, everybody, who supports us over there. If you would like to support us, we would love that, because it does keep the show going, and one of the benefits is being on the show, like Alex and Stefanie were today. There’s also early access to our show notes; you get access to our recording studio, so you get to listen to the episode early when we record on the weekend. There’s a exclusive Facebook group; we’ll ask for your comments and questions for use on the show. We do bonus MuggleCast, we release additional stuff every month, we do giveaways… we do so much on Patreon. Patreon.com/MuggleCast; you can pledge as little as $2 a month, and you’ll receive benefits beginning at $2 and going up to $10 per month. And then finally, just another reminder, Eric, you will be at LeakyCon. He’ll be doing a couple panels; don’t be afraid to say hi to him. And Eric, I assume, we’ll hear what you and your fellow panelists gleaned during your discussions.
Eric: Yeah, I’d be happy to do a recap on the next episode for sure. Andrew, you will be missed.
Andrew: I know; not going to be able to make it after all. I am sorry. But we will… I look forward to hearing how it goes.
Eric: Going all on my own, all on my lonesome.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: It’s going to be a big empty hotel room, a big empty bed with nobody on it.
[Andrew and Stefanie laugh]
Eric: Because I sleep on the floor everywhere I go.
Andrew: Oh.
Eric: Anyway, you will be missed. [laughs] I made that up. You will be missed.
Andrew: Thank you, thank you. Alex and Stefanie, hope you had a great time today.
Stefanie: It was amazing.
Alex: So much fun.
Andrew: Awesome, awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining us. You both did great. And I’m sure Micah is going to love your impressions, and he’s going to, more importantly, love your thoughts.
Eric: He’s going to say, “Oh, they can fill in for me anytime.”
Andrew: [imitating Micah] “They were great. Ha, ha, ha.”
[Alex and Stefanie laugh]
Andrew: “I totally sound like me. Ha, ha, ha. I’m funny. I’m Micah.” [laughs] Yeah, so thanks again, and thanks for your support over at Patreon, and we look forward to having this episode out.
Alex: Yeah, thank you, guys.
Andrew: Sure thing. And thank you for listening. I’m Andrew.
Eric: I’m Eric.
Alex: I’m Alex.
Stefanie: And I’m Stefanie.
Andrew: See everybody next time. Goodbye.
Alex, Eric, and Stefanie:: Bye.
Bloopers
Eric: Have you guys put it in the dishwasher at all yet?
Alex: Yes, we have.
Andrew: I have.
Stefanie: No, I haven’t yet either. I haven’t used it yet. It’s just been sitting on my shelf.
Eric: Oh, but it arrived? Okay, great. [laughs]
Andrew: It’s holding up well in the dishwasher. We’ve asked… people have wondered, is it dishwasher safe? And it seems so.
Eric: Yeah, it’s been dishwashed at least… probably upwards of six times. Microwaved, as well.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: As a recommendation, if you are going to dishwash it, dishwash it at the top of the dishwasher, which is away from the jets. It’ll be a little bit more gentle on the mug. But I don’t have a dishwasher, so to be honest, this question threw me for a loop, because I’ve been hand-washing everything for about seven years.
Andrew: I’ve been testing it. I’ve been working my dishwasher around the clock to see when it’s finally going to start showing some wear.
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: The stress test…
Alex: Your water bill is going to be interesting, Andrew.
Andrew: Yeah, we’re on the 500th cycle now, and it’s still holding up.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: This is a joke, this is a joke, so I can’t confirm.