Transcript for MuggleCast Episode #401, Old Testament Dumbledore (HBP Chapter 13, The Secret Riddle)
Show Intro
[Show music plays]
Andrew Sims: Welcome to MuggleCast Episode 401. [laughs] No “Podcast not found” here! Nerd joke?
Micah Tannenbaum: Got you.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: 401? Page not found?
Laura Tee: Oh, Andrew.
Eric Scull: [laughs] Oh, God, that took me longer than it should have. But yes, nice work.
Andrew: I only had one chance to make that. One week to make that. I pulled it off.
Laura: And that was your delivery?
Andrew: Yeah, I know.
Laura: You’d been working up to this for a while? All right.
Andrew: Well, it only came into my head last night.
Laura: Oh, okay.
Andrew: Yeah, I didn’t have a lot of time to develop it. We’re a scrappy production here. We don’t have producers; we don’t have a fancy studio. We’re just sitting here with our own microphones. Don’t have our own writers; we’re just using our own brains.
Eric: We are, however, saving for retirement.
Andrew: Yes, we are. [laughs]
Laura: Yeah!
Andrew: And maybe saving for Goblet of Fire illustrated edition?
Eric: Oh, maybe.
News
Andrew: There are a couple news items this week before we get to Chapter by Chapter. We’re finally bringing back Chapter by Chapter, after focusing on Fantastic Beasts: The Crimes of Grindelwald for so long. It’s going to be nice to return to the original books, ahhh. But yeah, that news. So we love the Harry Potter illustrated edition series. Laura, do you have the illustrated edition books yet?
Laura: No, and it’s because everyone in my life has told me, “Yeah, I thought about getting those for you as a birthday present or a Christmas present, but I just assumed that you already had them,” and I’m always like, “No! I don’t have them!”
Andrew: [laughs] “Someone buy them for me, please!”
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: So the first three books are out, and they’re really fantastic. And they were releasing one a year, so there was one in 2015, one in 2016, one in 2017. And Jim Kay, the illustrator, did not release one last year because Goblet of Fire is so darn long, but he did say that he would be releasing… that it would be out in 2019, and over the past week, we have learned that the book will be released October 8 of this year, and Eric, it will all be one book.
Eric: I’m still so shocked about that, Andrew.
Andrew: [laughs] And yet, it’ll have just as many illustrations per page, I guess. The illustration to page ratio will be the same, because he needed two years to work on this. So can’t wait to see it.
Eric: Yeah, I’m trying to find the actual article where he talks about… because they actually have quotes from Jim Kay that talk about him just needing more time, but that he’s excited, and I think they said there’s actually twice as many illustrations as well, which makes sense because Goblet of Fire is twice as long.
Andrew: Right, that’s what I mean, and that’s why he needed two years to work on it. He had said, “I’m really enjoying having more time on the Goblet of Fire than previous books, so hopefully there will be more to see in the fourth book when it hits the shops in 2019, and I’m having great fun planning it.” He also said this, which was interesting: “I want to hide lots of Easter eggs in Goblet, a luxury, usually, because it takes a lot of planning.”
Eric: Here’s the thing about the Jim Kay illustrated edition: This man is all about Easter eggs, although not necessarily Easter eggs that have anything to do with Harry Potter. There is some weirdo stuff that’s in the back of some of these images. [laughs] In the first three books. I kind of don’t get him. But the illustrations, on the whole, are great, and they work very well for reading the story. But there’s a man who has a lot of fanciful other ideas that he plugs into his work. I mean, bless him, he’s got the mandate of Scholastic to do this, so why not have fun with it?
Andrew: Right, right.
Eric: It’s just funny reading that, because there’s not many Easter eggs you can put in a 20-year-old children’s book that would surprise people. [laughs]
Andrew: Yeah. Well, maybe he means just references to prior books or something. I don’t know. I’m sure it’s going to be… that’ll be a lot of fun, because then we can go through it and be like, “Oh my God, did you see this little Easter egg right here?”
Eric: Maybe it’ll be like breadcrumbs to finding a full illustration of Ginny Weasley.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: Would be like a scavenger hunt.
Micah: Yeah, why are you all bent out of shape about this?
Eric: Oh, me?
Micah: Yeah, you were tweeting up a storm earlier this week.
Eric: Oh, well, he… well, no, it’s just the sheer fact that Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets illustrated does not have a single painting of Ginny Weasley in it, and it’s kind of shocking because she’s the one who’s possessed by the diary, is taken into the Chamber, saved by Harry… it just seems a little shocking that you go through the whole book and not one portrait of Ginny. I like Ginny. What’s he got against Ginny?
Andrew: Maybe she takes a ton of time to illustrate…
Eric: Ohh.
Andrew: … and he just didn’t have the time to do it, and now, he had two years to work on a single illustration of Ginny Weasley. I feel bad for Jim Kay, honestly, because… okay, so now he’s got the second longest Harry Potter book done. Now he has to do the longest Harry Potter book.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Andrew: I mean, does he do anything else in his life than create these illustrations?
Eric: I mean, I’m sure he’s paid heftily to work up these… the illustrations are all extremely well done. They don’t seem rushed.
Andrew: No, of course not. It’s just so much work, and it just seems never-ending. He still has three very long books to go, poor guy.
Micah: I was going to say, I can’t imagine that he has too many other projects that he’s working on, because once he finishes Goblet of Fire – which, presuming it’s pretty much close to finished at this point – he’s got to go to Order of the Phoenix, which is an even bigger undertaking than Goblet of Fire.
Andrew: Right.
Eric: That one will be two books. I don’t care. It definitely will be. There’s no way. There’s just no way.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: Because you know how big these books are; there’s no way that they’re going to bind a thousand huge pages. It’s going to be a coffee table thing. They’re going to need to split it in two. I’m not suggesting they’ll sell them separately necessarily, but I think they will absolutely be two separate spines for that.
Micah: So do you anticipate, then, that Order of the Phoenix will take two years as well?
Eric: Two and a half.
Andrew: Yeah, if not three. Well, I feel like they’ll do two, because they want to get it out before the holiday season, so it’s either going to be two years or three years.
Eric: Right.
Andrew: Because they’ll want to put it out in Fall 2020-whatever. By the way, everybody, I would like to apologize. I made this 401 joke; I wasn’t even right. “Page not found” is 404.
Laura: Yeah, I didn’t want to say anything, but…
[Micah laughs]
Andrew: Well, that’s why you’re all here; it’s to correct me when I screw up.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: 401, though, is an unauthorized error, so it’s still valid.
Eric: We’re unauthorized.
Micah: There you go.
Andrew: We are unauthorized. [laughs] J.K. Rowling has definitely never been on this show before.
Eric: And saving for retirement.
Micah: Yeah, Eric, your 401K joke still works, so we’re safe.
Andrew: There we go.
Laura: Yeah. And see, Andrew, now you have time to prepare for your 404 joke.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: No, I want it to be just as bad.
[Laura laughs]
Micah: He’s hoping that we all forget.
Andrew: I’ll just replay the 401 one, but record over the 1.
[Eric laughs]
Micah: We also didn’t introduce ourselves, but that’s okay.
Laura: Yeah, I was wondering about that.
Andrew: Oh, man, I’m just a mess this morning. I’m sorry. Everybody knows who we are. Should we just redo the episode?
Laura: No.
[Micah laughs]
Andrew: Okay. On to some other news: Speaking of introductions, a new cast has been announced for Harry Potter and the Cursed Child on Broadway. They’re taking over Spring 2019. Nobody I recognized, but I just can’t believe that the original West End cast of Cursed Child is still doing this play. [laughs] They’re about to wrap up, of course, but yeah, that’s been an amazing run for them doing these two plays daily for two full years.
Eric: It’s the life of a Broadway actor.
Andrew: I couldn’t do it. I’d be out after two weeks.
Eric: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we’re talking about over a thousand performances, a thousand separate, two-and-a-half-plus hour performances, not to mention it’s in two parts for each of these actors in the span of their time on the show. It’s insane, when you think about it.
Laura: It really does make you wonder how they prevent themselves from phoning it in. Like, you’ve recited the same lines over and over thousands of times? How do you not get to the point where you’re just sort of like, “I’m a warm body. I have a pulse. I’m going to say these lines.”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: “I feel as tortured as Jim Kay. This never-ending work.”
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Andrew: No, yeah, I mean, that is a great point. So when it opened in the US, I saw it with Micah and Eric, and then I saw it again with Pat a few days later, and I enjoyed it both times. And I’m grateful I got to see it two times, but I was also like, “Wow, this feels so fake to me now that I just saw it a couple days ago, and I’m seeing it again.” It’s the same exact thing. It’s just stunning how they pull that off. I’m not saying they were pulling off a fake performance; I’m just saying it feels very fake when you see it again so soon after the first time you see it. But yeah, so congratulations to the original Cursed Child cast on an amazing run. They were fantastic portrayals of these characters we know and love. And even still today we hear from people who have seen Cursed Child, and they’re like, “Wow, that is so much better than just reading the screenplay.” So it continues to just wow everybody.
Eric: Yeah, I’ve got a friend who saw it this week in New York and really loved it.
Andrew: Good, good. Before we continue, it’s time for a word from this week’s sponsor, Robin Hood.
[Ad break]
Chapter by Chapter: Seven-Word Summary
Andrew: So we are going to return to Chapter by Chapter this week. We are returning to Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince. On Episode 392, we did Chapter 12, and to remind everybody of what occurred, I thought we could share the Seven-Word Summary that we had created in that installment.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Eric: Because they’re so informative of the whole chapter. They’re so definitive.
Andrew: Definitely. Our Seven-Word Summary was, “Draco is trying out poisoned necklaces, hooray!” So there, you’re all caught up.
[Eric laughs]
Micah: Reminds me of the Red Stripe commercial. Have any of you seen that?
Laura: Oh, yeah. “Hoorayyy, beer.”
Eric: The Jamaican lager?
Micah: Yeah.
Eric: Oh, yeah. No, I haven’t seen those commercials.
Micah: You should look it up on YouTube.
Eric: All right, I will.
Andrew: All right, so let’s do a Seven-Word Summary for this chapter. I will start. Tom…
Laura: … is…
Micah: … very…
Eric: … disturbed…
Laura: Um… “um” is not my word. Don’t use “um.”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: Too late. No, I’m kidding.
Laura: Ah, all I get are these linking words… by…
Andrew: Bisexual or by?
Laura: By.
Andrew: Just checking. Okay. Albus’s…
[5 seconds pass]
[Andrew laughs]
[5 more seconds pass]
[Laura laughs]
Micah: … presence.
Laura: Yeah, that’s good.
Andrew: I was aiming for “proposition.”
Laura: That’s good. I like it.
Eric: Good stuff.
Andrew: Publish it. Tweet it to J.K. Rowling.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: Send her out.
Eric: Laura, I know this isn’t how Seven-Word Summary works, but did you put the other one in here that was your suggested Seven-Word Summary?
Laura: Yeah, so I kind of… I was prepping for the show last night, and I guess I sort of blanked out and thought that we were each supposed to come up with our own Seven-Word Summary, so I did, and then I got in the doc this morning and was like, “Oh, crap, that’s not how we do it.”
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: So I removed it.
Eric: Well, I quite liked yours, if you’d care to share it.
Laura: Oh, I don’t remember exactly what it was. It was like, “Using gin to social engineer into orphanage.”
Andrew: Oh, I like that. Especially because I like gin.
Laura: Me too.
[Eric laughs]
Andrew: All right, we’re replacing this segment. Laura is just going to come up with a Seven-Word Summary.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: Every week you’re on.
Micah: Laura’s Seven-Word Summary, yeah. I like it.
Laura: That’s so boring.
Andrew: [laughs] I’m kidding.
Chapter by Chapter: Main Discussion
Andrew: So walk us through this chapter, Micah.
Micah: Yeah, so Chapter 13, “The Secret Riddle.” And it actually starts out with Harry’s I-don’t-even-know-what-number attempt to try and convince Ron and Hermione that Draco is the one responsible for everything that’s going wrong at Hogwarts these days. And that, of course, is just, I think, more of the same. And I just have a hard time with the fact that they don’t believe him. There’s not even a part of these two best friends of his that believe what it is that Draco is up to, or that he could possibly be responsible. I don’t know how you guys feel.
Eric: Yeah. I mean, they took him more seriously when he was being a dick to them last year, and this year, they’re just like, “Haha, oh, he’s okay now. Okay, he’s not seeing visions directly from Voldemort? Then his insight must be wrong. His intuition must be completely wrong. If it’s not coming directly from Voldemort’s brain, it’s unreliable, and we’re not going to believe him.”
Laura: Yeah, that part was definitely frustrating to read over, especially knowing everything that we know.
Andrew: Yeah, but that’s the fun of these Chapter by Chapter revisits, is that we get to see everything from a completely different perspective. Not only for some of us it’s been a while since we read this, but also we know how it all ends.
Eric: And I mean, Harry tells Dumbledore… I think Dumbledore does believe him? But Dumbledore does not betray any hint that he actually believes Harry. Yeah, he’s just working on… because Dumbledore at this point, I think, just has a death wish. He knows that he is cursed; his hand is black and all that stuff. But he believes Harry, but he absolutely is just like, “Okay, we’re moving on now.”
Andrew: And is that because he doesn’t want to rile up Harry?
Eric: I think so.
Andrew: By validating Harry’s idea, Harry could go and try to beat up Draco or something?
Eric: Yeah, he’d screw it up. He’d screw up the eventual plan to have Draco test his own mettle, and I think at this point, Dumbledore intends for Draco to be able to complete his task, because it gives Snape an out. The most important factor in all of this is Snape surviving, I guess, through the end of the year.
Laura: This was also such a teacher move. I used to be a teacher, and anytime you would have a student come to you and start complaining about something that you knew to be true, but you’re not really in the position to validate that, you kind of have to try and steer them away from talking about it, because there’s nothing else you can do. So the approach is usually like, “Okay, but let’s talk about you. Let’s focus on X, Y, and Z.”
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Eric: Interesting. We’re learning all the tricks.
Micah: Yeah, the focal point of the chapter is really the second lesson that we’re getting between Dumbledore and Harry, and you touched on really the first point here: What does Dumbledore know about what’s happening with Katie Bell and the necklace? Does he truly know that Draco is the one responsible? I think that raises a lot of questions, particularly because we know that Draco is attempting to kill Dumbledore, and he’s trying to do it in a lot of different ways. And so if Dumbledore is, in fact, aware that this is happening, why would he allow it to continue, knowing that it almost cost one student her life?
Andrew and Eric: Yeah.
Andrew: So that answers that question.
Micah: It seems short-sighted, no? Or does he really only care about Harry at the end of the day?
Eric: Well, it’s dangerous. The collateral damage is astounding, just the idea that Draco can accidentally kill Katie. Or he Imperius Cursed Madam Rosmerta; that’s a crime that could get you sent to Azkaban alone! It’s just that Draco is so… Draco has been given a blank check, not just by Dumbledore, who probably definitely knows what he’s up to, but Hermione and Ron are just not interested in what Harry is saying, and they’re giving him a pass, even though they witnessed him in Diagon Alley behaving strangely. They’re just… everybody’s willing to forgive Draco, and that’s the only thing that allows Draco to get as far as he gets in this book.
Laura: But isn’t there the fact that we know that Draco is sort of doing this halfheartedly? I mean, we know that… I don’t know if it’s kosher for me to bring up points from later in the book, so I won’t.
Andrew: It’s okay.
Laura: But we know that later on, Dumbledore kind of calls him out for that, and is like, “Hey, if you had really wanted to kill me, you could have done it, but you’ve made these halfhearted attempts all year because your heart’s not actually in it.” So it could be that Dumbledore is well aware at this point that Draco is not really trying. He’s kind of trying to check the boxes of “I did this”; that way he has something to deliver to his family and to Voldemort to say, “Hey, I am trying to kill him, but he is one of the most powerful wizards in the world, so give me a break.”
Eric: I mean, I think Dumbledore is ridiculously dumb to be goading Draco like that at the end of the book, but at that time, he wants to die. I very much do… I understand him characterizing the actions as “Your heart’s not really in it,” but Draco got the necklace. The necklace could have absolutely killed Katie Bell, as we get into in the beginning of this chapter. Dumbledore tells Harry if more than just the tiniest potion of skin, of her ungloved finger touched the necklace, if more of her hand had touched the necklace, she would have died. And as it stands, she’s in the hospital wing for several months. So I think it’s unfair and a little bit ridiculous for Dumbledore to say Draco’s heart isn’t in it, because it sure as hell feels each time that Draco is trying. It is sort of an elaborate plan to Imperius Curse the barmaid to Imperius Katie to giving a very cursed necklace to… I mean, these are all real events with real people that could have died.
Andrew: He’s trying from a distance, though. He’s not going straight up to Dumbledore and trying to Avada Kedavra him. So yes, his heart is in it, but not fully, because if it was, I think he would attempt a more direct kill.
Eric: Maybe.
Laura: Yeah. And also, I mean, I think you’re right, Eric, and this kind of goes into the point of Hogwarts is actually a very dangerous place, and dangerous things happen at Hogwarts all the time that don’t make sense for a school that caters to underage children. So yeah, I mean, I think that could go to a larger discussion about Dumbledore’s lackadaisical approach towards student safety.
Eric: Yeah, and it’s difficult when you have a book series where it is a school of magic, which is all exciting, but it’s also a front for the next wizarding war. These are the front lines; the battles are being fought here at this school, and so things like this are bound to happen.
Micah: Do we ever find out, though, what the intention was for Katie with the necklace? I mean, what was she going to do? Just walk up to Dumbledore and throw the necklace at him?
Andrew: Well, that’s what we were trying to figure out last episode. I was also concerned about it getting past Filch’s Secrecy Sensors, Dark magic sensors. It just…
Laura: Well, and I think that’s another point to suggest that Draco is not really trying, because he knows that she’s going to have to go through what’s effectively security to get back into the school, and that that necklace is not going to fly under the radar.
Andrew: Yeah. So he can say, “Well, I tried, but I’m just a kid. I didn’t know that wasn’t going to work out.”
Eric: I think Draco thinks his life is very much on the line, and it probably is. Voldemort, I think, says as much, or Snape agrees with Narcissa that Voldemort doesn’t care if Draco lives or dies in his task, and that’s a sad place to be. And I think it is in Draco’s best interest to actually try, though, which is why I don’t really believe Dumbledore at the end saying his heart isn’t in it. I get what he’s saying; there’s some good in Draco still. Dumbledore wants to bring it out. But these attempts are real attempts.
Micah: For sure.
Eric: Even though they’re not well thought out.
Micah: Yeah, and it is a bit of catch-up that goes on with Dumbledore and Harry. They talk about Katie, then they also talk about Mundungus and Harry’s run-in with him in Hogsmeade, and Dumbledore makes the promise that Mundungus will not run off with any more of the Black family heirlooms. And I can’t remember when we did this chapter if we called out the fact that Mundungus may already have the locket, but this is just important for future reference when we get to the end of this book and into Deathly Hallows, that in fact, Mundungus has run off with something that’s very important to the series, and it’s also one mention in this chapter of a Horcrux.
Andrew: Hey-o.
Eric: [laughs] Yes. Yeah, for sure. Slimy, slimy Dung.
Micah: And I know you touched on this a little bit, Eric, earlier, but we did get a black hand reference. I believe it’s the third one thus far. I tried to go back and look at our other show documents to see; I know we were trying to keep track of how many times his black hand is mentioned, and he kind of pushes that story aside.
Eric: Until he dies.
Andrew: His hand is, like, gone at this point. I mean, J.K. Rowling paints a very grim picture for that hand in this chapter.
Micah: Definitely. So we’re about to go and enter Dumbledore’s memory of his trip to Tom Riddle at the orphanage, but prior to that, he almost pulls up a memory on the surface of the Pensieve, and I was wondering, how is that different from kind of diving headlong into the memory? I thought it was very cool to be able to see it play itself out in the way it did with Burke and his interaction with finding out about the locket and the fact that Burke was this really sleazy salesman who conned Tom Riddle’s mother for that Slytherin locket. And again, it plays more into the overall story that we’re going to learn more about, but what did you think?
Andrew: Is this the only time that we see this surface-level memory, accessing it in that type of way? It reminds me of how on an iPhone, you can force touch a music album or a text message conversation, and it’ll pop up, and as soon as you pull your finger away, it’ll disappear again. Or you can press your screen harder and dive into it. I think this iPhone feature was based on the surface-level memories that J.K. Rowling wrote.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: I’m unfamiliar with that trick. I’ve got to try that next time I’m listening to a music album.
Andrew: 3-D touch, force touch, whatever they call it these days. [laughs] I’m a nerd. But yeah, it was cool. But actually, I was also a little confused by it as a reader, because it happens so quickly that you almost don’t realize what’s happening. J.K. Rowling barely intro’d it.
Eric: Do we find…? We find the Pensieve in Book 4, right? For the first time, and it’s the Barty Crouch, Jr. trials? I feel like Harry is standing over the Pensieve at that time, and the memory is pulled up or playing, but nothing much happens until after Harry acts… he keeps leaning closer so he can look into the Pensieve, and the courtroom is there, but nothing really starts until he falls into it. But I feel like maybe it’s the same thing, like it did, in fact, start playing or whatever while he was still standing over it. So you can watch memories that way.
Andrew: This could be used in a museum in the wizarding world.
Eric: Oh, yeah.
Andrew: Where you just can view a bunch of different memories. It seems to be a form of the Pensieve that just is a feature of the Pensieve for people who just want to briefly look at something without fully going into it? I’m just trying to work out loud why this would have been conceived.
Micah: I think you probably have it right. I think Dumbledore just wanted Harry to see that memory very, very quickly, sort of as a intro to the orphanage memory that they were about to go into together, because it tied back to the last time they had their lessons together, and then also set up what was about to take place. So I think it was just one of those quick things that needed to happen, and Harry didn’t need to go full immersion into the Pensieve.
Andrew and Eric: Right.
Micah: So that would be my guess. And it also gives us the information that, yet again, something that is sold at Borgin and Burkes is not to be taken lightly, because Dumbledore, again, mentions the necklace was likely sold from there as well. So it’s just reinforcing the importance of Borgin and Burkes in this particular book. We know that the Vanishing Cabinet, that’s going to play a role later, so just an important piece there.
Andrew: Dumbledore also describes his memory as “rich in detail and satisfyingly accurate.” I’m wondering, is this Rowling trying to assure audiences that all of Dumbledore’s guesses, which he makes many of this book, are accurate? Are to be believed? I thought it was interesting for Dumbledore to say that. Dumbledore does have an ego about him, so I can understand it from an ego perspective, but I also think for a reader, it’s a good way to feel sure that these memories do serve the purpose of this story and the direction that Dumbledore is taking Harry.
Eric: Yeah, I think you’re exactly right, Andrew, as far as what we’re supposed to take from that comment: Dumbledore tooting his own horn. But I thought the magic of the Pensieve was that it takes any memory and really fleshes it out with the peripherals, the details, like you could walk to the back of a room where students are taking an exam and listen to what they’re talking to each other about, even though the original hearer couldn’t necessarily have overheard it, like they do with Snape during the OWL lesson in Book 5. So Dumbledore having a decent memory, or a stronger memory, or more fleshed out, is not really of any benefit to the Pensieve, because the Pensieve is going to treat it mostly the same, right? So he’s just tooting his own horn.
Andrew: That’s true. That’s true. But it’s also a good comment for him to make because of all the guessing that he is doing in this book.
Micah: Right. I was going to say, I think it also sets up what’s to come later on when they enter a memory of Slughorn’s that is not necessarily satisfyingly accurate.
Eric: Okay, that’s good.
Laura: Very true. Yeah, and I mean, it seems like Dumbledore is working really hard to set Harry up during these lessons to be prepared for what’s coming. So I mean, it just seems like this was an attempt to protect this memory in terms of its reliability, so that later on Dumbledore can point to Slughorn’s memory and be like, “Hey, this is very different, because this has been tampered with.”
Eric: Yeah, yeah. I mean, Harry’s only got a fifth grade science education, but Dumbledore is teaching him the scientific method. Dumbledore is teaching him how to deduce what to do and what the future holds by leading him down this path that is very… the way J.K. Rowling writes it in this book – it’s one of the highlights of the book, I feel – at slowly eking out what it is that Voldemort did to become immortal.
Micah: Yeah, for sure. So we enter this memory, and we immediately are on the streets of London; Dumbledore is walking up to this orphanage where we know Tom Riddle is staying. And very polite, Dumbledore. This man is… I think just on charm alone, he could have gotten information out of Mrs. Cole. I don’t think he needed to do any sort of magic.
Andrew: And those great young Dumbledore looks. Who could say no?
Eric: The purple suit.
Laura: That purple suit.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Eric: The plum purple suit.
Micah: Exactly. So what are we to make of this situation inside of Mrs. Cole’s office, the interaction between Dumbledore and her? Do we feel okay about it that he likely used magic to get the information that he wanted out of her? Also used a little bit of alcohol to get some information out of her?
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Andrew: I had completely forgotten about the gin, and I’m a gin drinker right now, so I was very excited to see that, and I wonder if J.K. Rowling really likes gin. I’m going to have some gin right now to celebrate, at 8:00 a.m.
Eric: After three glasses, Andrew, does part of it slip out the crack of your mouth and drip down your chin like it did for Mrs. Cole?
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Andrew: Yeah. And I can’t stop complaining about Tom Riddle. Yeah, so I’m not sure he even needed to use a Confundus Charm on her. And now, maybe what I’m about to say was a result of the Confundus Charm, but she seems ready and willing to get rid of the kid, to get rid of Tom Riddle. I mean, and getting back to – maybe you can relate to this, Laura – if you have a troubled kid in your school or your orphanage, and somebody comes along and is like, “Hey, I want to take this kid from you and bring him to a school,” you might say, “Oh, you’re going to take this kid out of my hair?” And assuming you trust that they’re going to a good place, “Sure, take him, please.”
Laura: No, actually. No, that’s the opposite of what any caretaker of a troubled child should do.
Andrew: Really?
Laura: It should be very alarming to you, as the caretaker of a child with issues, that some stranger walks in off the street and says, “Hey, I want to take this kid away to this school called Hogwarts.” I’m sorry, she has no knowledge of the wizarding world. That does not sound like a real school. So if somebody came in with their purple ass suit and was like, “I’m going to take this child away. Would you like some gin?”
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: I would… my uh-oh sensors would be going through the roof.
Andrew: Even if this child is frickin’ pulling off magic on people to torture fellow kids and steal stuff from them? I mean, this kid has to be the worst of the worst. Why would you continue to want him?
Laura: It’s not necessarily that you want him, but as somebody who has sort of sworn an oath in your profession to care for children who don’t have advocates, it’s your responsibility to make sure that those children are cared for, regardless of whatever circumstances might exist in their lives. And the reason for that is that children with problems like Tom Riddle had tend to be the most vulnerable because they’re the ones that people don’t want, so it’s really easy for predators to swoop in and take advantage of them.
Eric: Yeah, that’s why there’s a need for the Confundus Charm, for the gin… Dumbledore is doing a lot of work in a very short period of time. He only wants to make one day of this whole thing. [laughs] He’s making short work. His Confunding Mrs. Cole while showing her a blank piece of parchment or whatever convinces her. It bypasses her protection, right? She is not going to just give Tom Riddle up. She is suspicious of Dumbledore – right at the start, she’s very suspicious – but it’s his charm, or his Confundus thing that makes it that so she’s okay with everything.
Micah: Would you not be suspicious of a auburn-haired man in a purple suit walking into…
Andrew: Why do you guys keep making fun of the purple suit? I think that sounds fantastic.
Eric: Nobody’s making fun of it. I want one. I want several.
Andrew: You guys keep bringing it up like it’s a problem.
Micah: It’s not a problem; I’m saying, wouldn’t you be…? I don’t know how “in” purple suits were in the 1940s, so I’m just saying…
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Micah: And I think it’s a little weird that somebody would walk up to a place that probably doesn’t see that much…
Eric: Color.
Micah: … style.
Eric: Oh, style. There you go.
Andrew: Right. What if it’s a nice dark purple suit? Maybe it’s not a bright purple, just a subtle purple.
Eric: Even the passersby are looking at Dumbledore, it says, in the memory, so he stands out like a sore thumb. He needs to use magic, if only to compensate for his complete out-of-placeness. But yeah, I think he overrides…
Andrew: Well, I know I’m never wearing a purple suit in front of you guys. That’s what I’ve learned today.
Eric: If you did, Andrew, we would support you 100%.
Laura: Of course.
Eric: It would look good on you.
Laura: It’s just very conspicuous.
Andrew: [laughs] I understand.
Laura: He’s not doing a very good job of trying to fly under the radar here.
Andrew and Eric: Yeah.
Laura: But I mean, that’s not Dumbledore’s style, and it never has been, so we get it.
Eric: But he’s using the magic to override… Mrs. Cole has natural protective instincts, and he’s just… that’s why he’s getting her drunk, and that’s why he Confunds her, is to … it’s real manipulative “Wizards are over Muggles” Dumbledore right here. This is very OG, Old Testament Dumbledore, where he just is Confunding any Muggle who would stand in his way.
Laura: I think that’s the title of this episode. “Old Testament Dumbledore.”
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: We’ll see.
Micah: There you go.
Laura: It’s so true.
Eric: He just completely… her agency is removed, you know? And we appreciate it because it gives us the story of how Voldemort came to be, but Dumbledore is being very manipulative right now. Although, here’s a question for you guys: Does he have a claim to Tom Riddle? Is it important that Tom Riddle goes to Hogwarts? Is it more important than, say, Mrs. Cole being told the truth about everything just to get Voldemort in Hogwarts? Wouldn’t young Tom Riddle be worse off out of Hogwarts?
Andrew: Yes. Well, he has a case; the problem is, Mrs. Cole doesn’t know crap about magic, so she would never be able to understand this.
Micah: Right.
Andrew: But yes, in our eyes, in the wizarding world’s eyes, in Dumbledore’s eyes, yes, he has a right to take Tom Riddle under his wings, shall we say.
Micah: And I think that raises the question: Do Hogwarts professors normally make house calls to witches or wizards headed to Hogwarts, or were Harry and Tom exceptions because of their situations?
Andrew: I think because of their situations.
Laura: Yeah, although this did raise an interesting question for me. I find it very interesting that Dumbledore made the house call for Tom Riddle, but not for Harry. For Harry, he sent Hagrid, and it made me wonder if Dumbledore sort of in retrospect… knowing what Tom Riddle’s history was, or at least knowing the limited amount that he knew, and then watching him flourish at Hogwarts, I wonder if Dumbledore thought that maybe he kind of goaded Riddle in his method and approach towards convincing Riddle that he was a wizard, and thought that maybe allowing him to come into contact with such a powerful figure in the wizarding world early on didn’t allow him to enter the wizarding world humbled, whereas Harry definitely came into the wizarding world humbled, and I think some of that has to do with his first interaction with someone from that world being with Hagrid.
Andrew: That’s really interesting. Yeah, I think part of it, too, in the case of Tom Riddle, is that it was going to be a very difficult situation, pulling him out of there. Hagrid would not have been able to come in there and do what Dumbledore did.
Eric: [laughs] He would have drank with Mrs. Cole.
Laura: Well, was he alive at that point? [laughs]
Andrew: No, but you know what I mean, like a Hagrid-type character. Anyone but… it needed Dumbledore’s touch. It needed Dumbledore’s purple suit fashion. It needed Dumbledore’s charm. It needed a little liquor.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: Yeah, a little finesse.
Andrew: But I think you’re right, Laura. I think Dumbledore may have taken that as a learning lesson, and Harry was introduced to the wizarding world in a very plain way. “You’re a wizard, Harry. Here’s a cake.”
Eric: I tend to prefer… I tend to believe that Dumbledore was just busy when he sent Hagrid; otherwise he would have done it himself. Or maybe he didn’t want to complicate things with Petunia. Petunia and Dumbledore have a long, weird relationship, and he probably knew that the Dursleys had been keeping magic from Harry, and so he sent a blunt axe versus his fine point comb, because he knew that he would make matters worse by his presence, and so he sent Hagrid. I just tend to think that him going to see Tom Riddle just has to do with the back half of this conversation, where he forces Tom to confront his past misdoings, and just states as clear as day that stealing and that sort of behavior is not appropriate. You need somebody to assume the authority over this boy, as Dumbledore does. It surprises me when Dumbledore says to Harry later that he didn’t pay a close eye on Voldemort, or he didn’t know then who he’d become, because Dumbledore seemed to trust his instincts well enough to frighten young Tom Riddle into not stealing. All it ended up teaching him was to be more careful about his bullshit, more secretive, but I think from the get-go, it was very important that Dumbledore lay down the law like he does.
Micah: One of the things I wanted to raise, though, too, is that this is all happening within the Fantastic Beasts timeline. So Dumbledore must have found it very important work to go to this orphanage and to tell Tom that he was, in fact, a wizard, and the whole spiel. But just given everything else that’s going on at this time, I think that he wouldn’t have done this unless it was absolutely essential. And I was just thinking back to… I saw Deathly Hallows recently, and I don’t know if it’s the same in the book, but when Voldemort goes to Nurmengard to ask about the Elder Wand from Grindelwald, Grindelwald says to him, “I knew you would come, Tom,” and I just found it interesting that he refers to him as “Tom” as opposed to “Voldemort.”
Laura: Oooh.
Micah: So is there a past history between these two, and is it not maybe just Dumbledore that comes to the orphanage to visit Voldemort?
Eric: Wow.
Andrew: Oh, interesting. Yeah, maybe. Do you think also Dumbledore, seeing what’s going on with Grindelwald, sees what can happen to a troubled wizard and where he can go with his power, and maybe that’s why he wanted to come in and “save” Tom? Attempt to? Or at least attempt to get him on the good side of things?
Laura: Yeah, I mean, I think especially given the fact that Tom has exhibited extreme power for such a young age, he sees that potential, certainly, for him to grow up to be nefarious, although he admits to us that he had no idea how bad it was going to be at the time.
Andrew: Right. Yeah, he could see him as, okay, there’s this troubled kid here. Dumbledore says, “He’s been on our list since he was born,” to Mrs. Cole, I believe, and he’s saying, “Well, this guy could be turned into another Dumbledore, or he could turn into another Grindelwald. I’d better go save him and try to put him on my side.”
Eric: I mean, I assume to your point, Micah, if there is an orphan somewhere literally without any support, and nobody else to come and call, they probably would send a wizard or… I mean, in the movies, Dumbledore is probably going to be headmaster by this time, but that is not book canon. He’s not the most important honcho at Hogwarts, so he can get away to do these sort of house calls, social visits, that sort of thing.
Andrew: So what I love about this scene is that Dumbledore is delicately balancing gaining Tom’s trust – showing him magic, allowing him to go to Diagon Alley himself – while remaining forceful by saying, “Bad behavior won’t be tolerated at Hogwarts. You will call me ‘sir.'” I thought this was brilliant, because as Harry mentions a couple times, he’s surprised by the decisions that Dumbledore is making, the things that Dumbledore is saying to Tom. He’s surprised by these things. But I do wonder, is Tom Riddle hopeless at this point? Is there any saving him? His ability to obey Dumbledore would suggest that maybe he could turn out good; he’s not totally hopeless to the point where Dumbledore can’t even get him to cooperate, but he’s already so messed up. He’s making people hurt. He’s controlling them. I’d wonder if it’s – just getting back to what we were saying a few minutes ago – Dumbledore just sees this as, “There’s no saving him, but I at least need to get him under my control for a few years.” Could Dumbledore possibly think this kid is going to turn out okay? [laughs]
Eric: It’s sort of shitty that he didn’t turn out okay. I think you’ve got to give these children structure, you’ve got to give these children a purpose, and bringing Riddle to Hogwarts was one of the best things you could do for him, because he found more of his kind. He found how to do magic. He learned all these great things. He chose to use it for bad, evil and stuff like that, but I think Dumbledore did the right thing by Tom as just a human child, and it would not have gone well if young Tom Riddle had been left in the orphanage without really knowing who or what he was. Eventually, there would have been murders at that orphanage, and it would have been… I mean, he sort of gave young Voldemort the equipment that he needed to become Voldemort and kill all those people, but I don’t think he should have done any differently, because he’s taking an orphan to where he belongs.
Laura: Yeah, I agree. I think left to his own devices in the Muggle world, not knowing that he’s a wizard, would have probably resulted in some similar outcomes, although he wouldn’t have been able to harness the power of having wizarding supporters, but he already thought he was special, and he was using that to justify his behaviors already, so he might have still grown up to be a genocidal maniac. Who knows?
Micah: [laughs] Yeah, and I think that he’s already lost at this point, and there are a couple of things that he does to suggest that. When Dumbledore is telling him to go and make sure that he sees Tom at the Leaky Cauldron, he hates the idea that somebody else could potentially share his name.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: He is a loner, right? He doesn’t have any friends at the orphanage, and the ones that maybe could have been his friends, he’s killing their pets, and he’s doing terrible things to them on field trips. So I think he was likely doomed from the start.
Andrew: Yeah. He hates that somebody else has the very common name Tom. [laughs] It’d be one thing if his name was actually unique, but it’s not at all. It’s just Tom. No offense to any Toms out there.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: You know, I wondered if that was why J.K. Rowling named the barman Tom.
Andrew: Oh, damn.
Eric: If she knew back in Book 1 that there was going to be that connection. It’s just so nice for Dumbledore to be like, “Oh, just like…”
Andrew: Connecting the threads!
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Eric: Maybe.
Andrew: There’s also the mention of the mouth organ?
Eric: Oh, God.
Andrew: We Americans find that disgusting. Just call it a harmonica!
Eric: I mean, Book 5 is really when the American translators just gave up and stopped coming to work.
Andrew: [laughs] You are so crazy.
Eric: No, it really, absolutely is. There’s so many instances in Book 5 and Book 6 where little old uninformed, uneducated, American me is not sure what the hell is going on in this Harry Potter book, and “mouth organ” took me eight years to figure out that it was a harmonica. Honestly, I’m like, “What? What in all of Hell is a mouth organ? I don’t know.”
Micah: You could have just googled it.
Andrew: It’s such a gross… because I’m thinking organs like human organs. I don’t know. It’s just such a gross description for harmonica. [laughs]
Eric: I’ve got a mouth organ for you.
Laura: I don’t know. I kind of like it, to be honest. Not mouth organ specifically, but I like that they stopped translating to – I’m doing air quotes here – “American,” because it allowed the books to feel more British. Let them be what they are.
Andrew: That’s true.
Eric: Yeah, they already felt British enough for me. I need my hand held when reading foreign literature.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: I really do. I’m not even ashamed of it. But seeing “tap” all over the place… seeing the “Are you mad?” I can’t make the switch.
Andrew: No. Oh, stop. All right, now I completely disagree.
Eric: Okay, all right, all right. I made my bed.
Andrew: Come on. You’ve got to get cultured, man. You’ve got to enjoy some of that English slang. “Are you mad?” All right, new rule on the show. Nobody can ever say “angry” again. You have to say, “Are you mad?” just to drive Eric crazy.
Laura: I always thought that meant crazy, not angry.
Eric: It does mean crazy, yeah.
Andrew: Yeah, that’s true.
Micah: Speaking of the mouth organ, though…
[Laura laughs]
Micah: … I think that it’s important because it showed that Tom liked to collect things, and this comes up at the end of the chapter when Dumbledore is talking with Harry, because Harry was expecting the mouth organ to just kind of be sitting where the ring was previously, and Dumbledore makes the comment that the mouth organ was just, in fact, a mouth organ. And as for readers, I think you’re supposed to start thinking that Horcruxes, essentially, but you don’t know what they are yet, right?
Eric: Yeah, trophies. And does this mean that Dumbledore went and tracked down the harmonica? He went to Billy Stubbs, who was in a blues band in some corner of the…?
Micah: No.
Eric: Because he says to…
Micah: Oh, you mean just to prove the fact that it was just a mouth organ.
Eric: Just a harmonica, yeah. He just kind of definitively states that it was only ever just what it was, and not something special, so that probably means Dumbledore tracked it down. That might have been where Dumbledore was over the weekend. I don’t know.
Micah: Yeah, possibly.
Andrew: There was actually a deleted scene from J.K. Rowling, where Dumbledore busts out his own mouth organ and starts playing “Can You Dance Like a Hippogriff” on harmonica, just to impress Tom.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: I thought that should have been kept in.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Micah: One of the other questions I had, though… there’s this interaction between Dumbledore and Tom, and he’s explaining to him that he is, in fact, a wizard. Tom says that it must have been his father who had magic, because if his mother did, she would have been able to save herself. And Dumbledore doesn’t correct him here, and I don’t know if that’s because Dumbledore just at this point doesn’t have the history of Merope, but I just wonder if he did, why he wouldn’t tell him the truth.
Laura: Yeah, I just don’t think he knew.
Eric: Yeah, it’s unclear at this point how much of Tom Riddle’s past he’s worked out, whether or not he already has the memory from Tom Ogden. No, not Tom Ogden. Bob Ogden. Yeah, right? Bob Ogden, whether or not he has the mystery of Marvolo, Morfin, whether all that’s sort of on Dumbledore’s plate right now. It was the last memory we went into in the Pensieve, but it’s unclear if he got it first or after this point. And I also think he just doesn’t want to tell Tom how much he really knows about Tom’s own lineage, because I think that’s where you get into danger territory of, “Oh, yeah, I already know that you are the last descendant of one of the founders.” That would go straight to Riddle’s head. He finds out eventually, but that would go straight to his head.
Andrew: That’s a good point.
Micah: For sure.
Laura: Yeah. And also, again, he’s dealing with kind of a petulant, big-headed child, so he’s trying to keep things on the straight and narrow while he’s talking to him, and not bring up details that might cause Tom to deviate and turn the conversation into something that it’s not supposed to be. The whole point of this is to make sure that Tom is aware that he has a place at Hogwarts, should he choose to accept it. End of story.
Andrew: And we’re talking about a kid who thinks there should only be one Tom in the world.
Eric: [laughs] So he’s already crazy.
Micah: Isn’t it the truth, though, that ultimately throws him off the rails, right? Learning that his father was, in fact, a Muggle, and what was done to his mother as a result, and I feel like that is a huge part in terms of him becoming Voldemort.
Eric: It’s natural to have to hate your parents at a certain time, but the fact that once he learns that, there’s nobody around to comfort him, is sort of problematic.
Micah: Well, he takes matters into his own hands. I mean, he goes and he kills his father and his grandparents.
Eric: Yeah, at age 15 or something. It’s pretty messed up. But I think the other thing about Dumbledore is he’s in listening mode. Dumbledore has very much learned, probably a long time ago, that if you just listen and let somebody else talk, they will inevitably reveal more information, or… he’s analyzing where the whims of young Tom Riddle take young Tom Riddle, so the conversation is completely guided. It’s very subtle, but the conversation is completely guided to unlock who young Tom is as a person. It’s really quite smart.
Micah: For sure. So then, what is the point of this chapter? I mean, the information that’s taken away from it, I think, is supposed to really set us up for learning more about Horcruxes, right? And the fact that Tom liked to collect trophies, and our mind is supposed to be going in that direction. To me, that’s really what the meat of the chapter was about.
Laura: I think it’s also about establishing context, and about establishing yet another similarity between Tom and Harry in that both of them spent the first 11 years of their lives unaware of who they were, and in situations that were less than ideal for children; Harry’s being mental and physical abuse at the hands of the Dursleys, and Tom’s being growing up in an orphanage and having no idea who your family is and having no one come look for you.
Andrew: Totally. And not to mention this first meeting of two people who would one day want to destroy each other. It’s a pretty crucial moment overall in the series. I also find it interesting that this was Chapter 13! Unlucky number 13! And in Chapter 13, we’re seeing Dumbledore’s first meeting with Tom Riddle! Is this a coincidence? Or did J.K. Rowling purposely set it this way? I mean, she probably could have moved this chapter. She could have put this a little later in the book. It didn’t have to be Chapter 13, since most of this is just a memory scene. So I feel like that may have been done on purpose.
Laura: Yeah, it’s intentional, for sure.
Micah: Yeah, especially once we get to Connecting the Threads, which, it ties directly to Chapter 13 of Chamber of Secrets.
Andrew: Ah, of course. The only other thing I wanted to bring up was that Dumbledore’s last comment to Harry is a hint at the Horcruxes. He just goes, “Tom liked to collect trophies. Okay, goodnight, Harry. Have a good night. Thank you.”
[Eric laughs]
Laura: Yep, like a serial killer.
Eric: Yes.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: So he knows at this point. See, this is what bothers me, though, is that did he really need Slughorn’s memory at the end of the day? Because clearly he’s on to what’s happening at this point, right?
Eric: No.
Andrew: Maybe it’s to convince Harry.
Eric: Yeah, but no, he doesn’t need Slughorn’s memory. I would agree with that.
Micah: Unless it’s for the number of Horcruxes.
Eric: Well, yeah, Dumbledore is just a completionist; he won’t move on until the binder is filled out, all the little slots in the pages for the collecting cards. It’s true, the number of Horcruxes, I guess, is important.
Micah: Right.
Andrew: And you’re adding this new DADA teacher. You’re going through the trouble of bringing him to the school. That scene still had to be in there.
Eric: Yeah, there had to be something, some need that Dumbledore had of Slughorn. But interested in talking about that when it comes up.
Micah: Definitely. The one other thing I wanted to just raise from this chapter was Dumbledore talks about how Tom didn’t have any friends, and then he takes it to present day, talking about Voldemort’s Death Eaters, and says, “Don’t think that just because there’s a Death Eater that says that he or she is close to Voldemort, that that’s actually the case,” and I found that this was just further proof that Cursed Child could not have happened. Because if that, in fact, is true about Bellatrix, there’s no way she would have gotten close enough to Voldemort, unless maybe she gave him some gin. I don’t know.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: And a Confundus Charm.
Laura: I mean, I can see this referring to closeness in terms of being a confidant, or being someone who is sort of in his inner circle and knows what his plans are. I mean, that doesn’t mean that he didn’t want physical gratification.
Andrew: Right.
Laura: And Bellatrix would have been totally willing, so…
Eric: Even though she’s married.
Micah: All right.
Andrew: She could have just been like, “Hey, what do you say we just try it? Come on, give it a shot. You’ve got to try everything once in life, right?”
[Laura and Micah laugh]
Laura: I also wanted to bring up one last point, and it’s sort of a nature versus nurture debate. I don’t think it’s unusual for Tom to have wanted to believe himself special, because again, he’s a child growing up in an orphanage full of children. He doesn’t have parents; he doesn’t have anyone who’s really advocating just for him, so I think that’s probably natural. Do we think that if Tom had not been left to fester in an orphanage for the first 11 years of his life, would he have turned out differently? Or was he doomed from conception because his conception happened via coercion?
Andrew: Yeah, I think those initial 11 years were very damaging on his life and who he would ultimately become. Maybe he could have been saved a lot sooner. Maybe he could have been saved if he were rescued a lot sooner, because 11 years is a long time to be stewing and learning what you are without any help from anyone else.
Eric and Micah: Yeah.
Eric: To live unloved. I think J.K. Rowling, in answering that question in that interview where she revealed that being conceived under a love potion was a detriment to Voldemort, she puts it firmly in the category of nature, but I think it’s enough that he spent the first 11 years unloved. We talk about how Voldemort can’t feel love throughout this book, and he doesn’t understand love or see a point to it, or doesn’t seek love, but he spent the first 11 years of his life without it and was doing just fine. So maybe that should have been something to consider. He doesn’t need to be all bad, but I think that he’s very much all bad.
Micah: But doesn’t there reach a point where he takes over responsibility for his own actions?
Eric: Yes, it does, but then that’s why J.K. Rowling sided with nature, was to justify how Voldemort is just the baddest egg of them all.
Laura: Yeah. And I think to further support that, there’s a point in the chapter where Mrs. Cole says that Tom was even weird as a baby, that he never cried, and that is a baby’s response mechanism to anything, most frequently like, “Hey, I just want you to hold me. I need someone to hold me. I need someone to feed me. I need to feel supported. I need to feel safe.” And if he’s not doing that as a baby, he’s not seeking that kind of love and gratification in his infancy, that does sort of support the nature argument.
Micah: It’s a good point.
Connecting the Threads
Andrew: All right, now on to Connecting the Threads. We spoke about earlier, there’s a big connection to Chapter 13 of Chamber of Secrets.
Micah: Yeah, there’s a couple of things that we can connect between these two chapters, and the first being that both chapters have Harry entering a memory about Tom Riddle.
Eric: Ohh.
Micah: So in “The Very Secret Diary,” Harry is taken back into Tom’s memory, and of course, it is when there’s that confrontation with Hagrid related to the Chamber of Secrets. Harry is meeting a younger version of Voldemort in both cases, there’s Horcruxes that are at play, and just a couple of other small things. Hermione, at the beginning of the chapter in Chamber of Secrets, is recovering from being a cat when the Polyjuice Potion went wrong. Katie is recovering from the necklace incident, so didn’t think that was by chance. And then Dumbledore. No purple suit…
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Micah: … but he is noted in both chapters to have auburn-colored hair.
Andrew: But no purple suit? I mean, that falls apart, then. There’s no connection there.
Micah: Well, he was at Hogwarts. He wasn’t out on the streets of London.
Andrew: Ah. Hitting up the town.
Eric: The memories are only four years apart or so. Two, which is pretty cool. Or five years, I’d guess.
Andrew: Oh, yeah. That’s great. Fantastic. Way to go, J.K. Rowling.
MVP of the Week
Andrew: All right, on to MVP of the Week now. So this is where we select a character who we believe was the most important, most valuable player of the week, and the game here is no repeats; we all must pick a different character. I’ll go first. Mine is Mrs. Cole for dealing with a lunatic for 11 years!
Laura: [laughs] She deserved that gin.
Andrew: Despite what Laura said, I would be relieved if Dumbledore walked in and said, “I’ll take him off your hands.”
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: Maybe that means I can never be a teacher or caregiver.
Eric: Yeah, you would be not very good at your job.
Laura: That’s correct. No.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: Damn it!
Micah: Did you notice, though, there was sort of the same stipulations that Harry was given about having to go back to his aunt and uncle’s, that Tom had to come back to the orphanage every summer?
Eric: Ohh. Do you think that means that Dumbledore put some kind of spell on the orphanage?
Andrew: Well, no, because Tom doesn’t need protection like Harry did.
Eric: So did he think that going back to the orphanage would humble Tom? Again, trying to build in these real world explanations or reasons for Voldemort not to stay at Hogwarts?
Andrew: Do students stay at Hogwarts over the summer? Most of them go home.
Laura: No, I think it’s mainly just that Tom didn’t have anywhere else to go.
Andrew: Yeah, but even then, would they let a student stay at Hogwarts?
Eric: I mean, I don’t think there’s an example of them ever doing it, but they should have, or could have, for sure.
Andrew: Give everybody a break at the school. All the faculty, they deserve a break. Hashtag #SelfCare.
[Laura laughs]
Eric: I mean, the house-elves got you. You can just show up in the Great Hall, get some food.
Andrew: [laughs] It’s just Tom and the house-elves at the school over the summer. That’ll go well.
Eric: Reheat some mac and cheese.
Andrew: Everyone would come back in September, and the house-elves would be dead.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Andrew: “I didn’t like them. All of them were named Tom.”
[Everyone laughs]
Micah: Tommy, or Toby.
Eric: Speaking of names, I gave my MVP of the Week to Billy Stubbs. It’s just such a fun name for a young boy to have. I wrote if he can survive the name Stubbs, Billy Stubbs, he’s going to get adopted to a good home and turn into a fine, well-adjusted, young Oxford-educated man with a whole patch of… I think it was his rabbit that got hanged, so he’s going to have a whole rabbit patch when he grows up.
Laura: Poor Billy.
Andrew: How thoughtful.
Eric: I want to see good things out of Billy.
Micah: I went with Caractacus Burke…
Eric: Nice.
Micah: … for making the deal of a century.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Micah: He swindled Tom Riddle’s mother out of that locket…
Eric: He sure did.
Micah: … and laughed about it all the way to the bank.
Laura: Yep. A young, scared, pregnant woman. You must feel like a champion, Mr. Burke.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Laura: I said Ron and Hermione for not indulging Harry’s fantasies of a Malfoy witch hunt. Even though Harry was right, I don’t think it would have helped.
Andrew: No, you’re right. It wouldn’t have helped.
Eric: What wouldn’t it have helped?
Andrew: It’s too soon. He’s got other things to do besides going after Malfoy.
Eric: Like what?
Laura: Yeah, and I think going after Malfoy in the way that he wants to probably would have thrown the story in a completely different direction.
Andrew: Totally. And you get that in Deathly Hallows, kind of, anyway.
Rename the Chapter
Andrew: On to Rename the Chapter now. Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince Chapter 13, “Yer a wizard, Riddy.”
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Eric: I went a bit weird with mine. Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince Chapter 13, “Gin, Never a Weasley,” as in Ginevra Weasley.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: Clever. I get you.
Micah: Well done, well done.
Andrew: Gin-ny. Was Ginny named after gin?
Eric: I don’t know.
Laura: No.
Micah: Maybe.
Andrew: Oh. People don’t name their children after alcohol? Well, there goes my idea.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Laura: Not typically.
Eric: I mean, gin comes from flowers.
Micah: I went with Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince Chapter 13, “The mouth organ was only ever a mouth organ.”
Eric: Aww.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: Maybe one of the longest titles ever proposed.
Laura: And I apologize in advance for this: Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince Chapter 13, “I’m going to Hogwarts tomorrow.” To the tune of “Tomorrow” from Annie.
Andrew: [laughs] Keep singing it, please. That was beautiful.
Laura: No.
Andrew: [singing] “Tomorrow, tomorrow…” All right, well, a very large Chapter by Chapter installment.
Quizzitch
Andrew: Now let’s play some Quizzitch.
Eric: So last week’s question was: Which Slytherin student prevented the Chamber of Secrets from being discovered? The correct answer – and this is from Pottermore’s writing on the Chamber of Secrets, which we were talking about during the Evanesco segment of last week’s news – but the correct answer is Corvinus Gaunt. Corvinus Gaunt was a Slytherin student who, when they were building the plumbing and bathrooms for Hogwarts, and they were specifically building the girls’ bathroom that was going to be placed over the entrance to the existing Chamber of Secrets, Corvinus Gaunt did some kind of magic, it says on Pottermore, or just made sure… was instrumental in making sure that the Chamber of Secrets could still be hidden from everybody.
Andrew: And Eric, tell us who got that right.
Eric: Well, we got more entries than we have in the past, which is good. It was a good week for it.
Andrew: I noticed that. RIP our mentions, as the kids say.
Eric: [laughs] RIP our mentions. I think people appreciated that we laid out that this was sort of an open book kind of thing, so more people are playing when they know where to find it, which I’m fine with. But Victor Chan, Anders Drew, Coriann, Gin, Taylor Hill, Les Miserables, Sarah, Count Ravioli, Amany, Erika, Laura, Tia, Retta, Megan, Charlie Father of Dragons, Kevin, Michelle, and Phoebe all got the correct answer. So this is a game we play over on Twitter; you have to at reply @MuggleCast, and then hashtag #Quidditch in your answer to play. And this week’s question is actually… so we’re getting back to Chapter by Chapter. We’re getting back to questions that have to do with the upcoming chapter, so as you read along with us on MuggleCast, you can get the answer to this week’s Quizzitch question and Tweet us. Question is: At what time is the first Gryffindor Quidditch practice without Katie Bell held? What time is the practice held?
Andrew: Much specific.
Eric: Yeah, much specific. And I don’t expect anybody to do this from memory, but if you do do it from memory, say that you did it from memory, and we’ll give you special props.
Andrew: [laughs] If you would like to comment on anything we discussed today, we would love to get your feedback. You can call us; 1-920-368-4453. That is the MuggleCast hotline. It’s 1-920-3-MUGGLE. You can also email us, MuggleCast@gmail.com, or there’s a feedback form right on the MuggleCast website, MuggleCast.com. We would also love your support over at Patreon.com/MuggleCast; it’s the reason why we are a weekly podcast! Thanks to everyone’s support, we are creating episodes every week, and we’re having a blast doing it. And using your financial support, we’ve also been able to get new album art. We were able to bring back Laura, who was very expensive, but thanks to your support, we got her. It also helps pay for editing and other production costs. That’s right, Laura, right? You’re very expensive to hire?
Laura: Yeah, I’m not a cheap date.
Andrew: [laughs] So thank you to everybody who supports us. In exchange for supporting us, you will get great benefits, like the ability to listen live – thanks to everybody who is listening live and sounding off this morning – you will get bonus installments of MuggleCast, you will get early access to our show notes, you will be able to participate in a monthly raffle if you pledge at the right level, and you also get your name on our “Thank you” page, you’ll get access to our Facebook group… we have a ton of benefits. Check them all out.
Micah: Cohost the show.
Andrew: Cohost the show, right! We’ll have another one of our listeners on maybe next week. So lots of great benefits. Ooh, and a physical gift. Don’t forget a physical gift; we do that every year. And if you pledge now, you will be eligible for the 2019 gift. All you have to do is pledge at the Dumbledore’s Army level or above, and if you stay pledged there for a few months and remain pledged, once we do the 2019 gift, you’ll get the 2019 gift, which is still to be announced. We’re working on it. We have some cool ideas. All right, thanks, everybody, for listening. I’m Andrew.
Eric: I’m Eric.
Micah: I’m Micah.
Laura: And I’m Laura.
Andrew: Let’s do it one more time, since we missed it at the beginning. I’m Andrew.
Eric: I’m Eric.
Micah: I’m Micah.
Laura: And I’m Laura.
[Andrew laughs]
Eric: I’m not going to…
Andrew: Let’s do it a third time, just for fun. I’m just kidding. Thanks, everybody. We’ll see you next time. Goodbye.
Laura: Bye.