Transcript for MuggleCast Episode #476, Celebrating 15 Years of MuggleCast (with Jamie!)
Show Intro
[Show music plays]
Micah Tannenbaum: Welcome to MuggleCast…
Laura Tee: … your weekly ride into…
Andrew Sims: … the wizarding world fandom. If you haven’t finished reading Book 6 yet, please do not listen to this podcast, as we do talk about several different spoilers.
Laura: Ooh, I love the emphasis there on “several.”
Andrew: Welcome to MuggleCast, and we’re joined by a special guest today: Jamie is back! Hi, Jamie.
Jamie Lawrence: Hey, guys. It is so good to be back, 15 years later. So much has happened, so much.
Andrew: Yeah, I’m so glad you feel that way too. When we invite somebody back who hasn’t been on in a while, I personally feel like, “Have they changed? Are they different? Did they remove Harry Potter from their lives? Do they hate us now for some reason?” But you seem to be the same old Jamie.
Jamie: Well, funny you should say that.
[Everyone laughs]
Jamie: Yeah, no, I didn’t remove Harry Potter. No, I don’t hate you guys. So I’m doing well so far.
Andrew: Excellent. Yeah, you are. Do you want to…? Anything going on in your life over the past couple of years?
Jamie: Oh, well, everything’s… I’m a grownup. That’s what I say; I’m a grownup. And being a grownup consists of: I’ve got a house. I bought a house. I got married; I got married two years ago, and I’m now a daddy.
Laura and Micah: Aww.
Andrew: Oh, that’s so great! Congratulations!
Jamie: Yep, I have a 9-month-old, and her name’s Evelyn, and I’m a grownup. And like all dads… and now, see, here is the problem: You asked me that question, and now I’m about to get into an anecdote about being a dad. I was going to make one of those parent jibes around “And for the last however long, I’ve been up at 6:00 a.m. every day,” so I’m already putting a downer on it, and I’m going to rewind from that and say, yeah, it’s fantastic. I love it. Absolutely love it.
Andrew: [laughs] Good, good. It sounds like you’re doing well; we’re happy to hear that. Have you thought about when you are going to introduce Harry Potter to young Evelyn? When is the right age to read the books to her?
Jamie: That is a good question. When did I first read the books? Now, I had my teacher in year seven – which is when you’re 11 here – I had her read the first book, and that was when I really fell in love with it, when it was read to me. Now, she has started on books. We do read her books, baby books, so I think I’ll probably test the water with her in a year, and just get her into the covers so she recognizes them…
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: Yeah, that’s great.
Jamie: … and then do it slowly. But I mean, I really don’t want the films to be the first intro. That’s the danger, isn’t it?
Andrew: [laughs] Right.
Laura: Yeah, that’s a smart choice.
Andrew: You need to start with the source material, right?
Jamie: Exactly, exactly. I’m not hammering on at the films; I’m just saying, the books for me. I started there. I want her to start there, you know?
Andrew: Absolutely. Maybe one day we’ll have Evelyn on MuggleCast for the 30th anniversary.
[Everyone laughs]
Jamie: Oh, yeah. That’d be so good.
Andrew: MuggleCast, the next generation. Will you tell her you were on MuggleCast?
Jamie: Hey, there’s a copy of the book What Will Happen in Book 7? on my shelf downstairs, so I’ll introduce her to that.
[Laura laughs]
Jamie: That will be my intro point to the whole fandom and what happened.
Andrew: “Evelyn, I was a best-selling author back in the day!”
[Andrew and Jamie laugh]
Andrew: Yeah, that’s pretty cool.
Jamie: I’m going to treat it like a test. I’m going to ask her to make her own predictions before she reads Book 7 and see how she does.
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: “Read my predictions in MuggleNet.com’s…”
Jamie: Read my predictions. And if she doesn’t do well, she’ll be sleeping under the stairs, obviously, because that makes sense.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: Well, we had to have Jamie back for our 15th anniversary, because Jamie, of course, was one of everybody’s favorite cohosts of MuggleCast, and we’re so happy to hear that you’re doing well, Jamie, and you haven’t changed a bit.
MuggleCast’s origins
Andrew: So on today’s episode, we’re going to discuss how MuggleCast got started, and then we’re going to focus on the fandom, because the Harry Potter fandom, that’s our favorite part about Harry Potter for sure. And instead of making this about us and being like, “Oh my God, it’s been 15 years” for the billionth time, we’re just going to focus on what we’ve loved about the Harry Potter fandom over the past 20 plus years. But I thought we would be a little self-indulgent here at the beginning; we could talk about getting started with MuggleCast 15 years ago this week. And obviously, it’s been a really long time. We were all very different people; we were all a lot younger. And I honestly forgot how the show got started, to an extent, and what reminded me was going on the Wayback Machine on Archive.org and looking at our old website, because we had a description there, and it said on the old MuggleCast.com, “The idea of creating a podcast surrounding Harry Potter was spawned back in April of 2005 when MuggleNet staff member Sarah tossed the idea around in our staff forum.” Now, I remember the staff forum. I don’t remember a Sarah. Does anybody else remember Sarah? We need to get her on the show. [laughs]
Laura: I do.
Jamie: Are you sure this isn’t you, Andrew? Did you just give yourself a different name?
Andrew: [laughs] No! I would love to take credit for initially spawning the idea of a Harry Potter podcast for MuggleNet. You do, Laura?
Laura: I do remember this. I don’t remember exactly what she said, but it was sort of at the dawn of podcasting, and she just made a post being like, “Hey, have you all heard about this podcasting thing? Maybe we should have one.” And then I guess you stole her idea, Andrew.
[Jamie laughs]
Andrew: Excuse me, I did not steal her idea. I was listening.
Laura: She hates you to this day.
Andrew: [laughs] She’s my arch enemy. No, I’m sure we would have invited her to be a part of the podcast. Maybe she just didn’t want to be on air. I think we were all very shy.
Jamie: Yeah, you tell yourself that.
[Andrew and Jamie laugh]
Andrew: No, well, I had been listening to podcasts at the time.
Micah: This Week in Tech.
Andrew: Yeah. Jamie, you remember Leo, right? My podcast idol?
Jamie: Yeah, I remember him. “Oh my God, oh my God, oh my God.” You loved him.
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: Anyway, so yeah, it was Sarah, initially, who introduced MuggleCast to us, apparently, or the idea of a Harry Potter podcast to us. And then the rest of the description says, “Originally, MuggleCast was only going to be a weekly news roundup with discussion on the latest news stories. The format quickly changed, though, as we began coming up with new ideas. By early August, we had come up with a great format for the Internet’s first ever Harry Potter talk show.” So that’s how it got started. I thought it was interesting, because to me, it was just a surprise that we had written that somebody named Sarah actually gave us the idea in the MuggleNet staff forum. [laughs] But there was resistance, right? I remember Damon in particular, who was kind of the tech guy on MuggleNet.
Laura: He was the dad of the staff, I feel. He always said no.
Jamie: Hey.
[Laura laughs]
Andrew: I think remember him being… I think he just thought that people weren’t interested in that idea.
Laura: No, you’re a cool dad, Jamie.
Jamie: All right, fine, fine.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: So anyway, yeah, but I think there was some resistance. And I know when we started MuggleCast, we weren’t sure how it was going to go. We didn’t know how the visitors of MuggleNet were going to accept it, because there just weren’t other Harry Potter podcasts out there. But I think the reason that MuggleCast did, and still does work so well, is because there’s just so much to talk about in regards to Harry Potter. It’s a very deep story, and there’s so much that can be speculated on. And of course, the big thing back then… we started it before Book 6 was released, so there was a lot to… or no, sorry, Book 6 had just come out, so there was a lot to talk about in regards to Half-Blood Prince. And then, of course, we were looking ahead to Book 7, and what else may come after that.
Micah: It’s fascinating to think that you were just going to do a weekly news roundup, because I didn’t join the show until probably maybe seven or ten episodes in. I remember recording those news segments every single week and sending them over to you, and it would always start like, “Thanks, Andrew.”
Jamie: Oh, I remember that!
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: Ben and Jamie used to give me such a hard time, Ben in particular, but I know Jamie, too, used to give me a hard time about “Thanks, Andrew.” You would always parody it.
[Andrew and Micah laugh]
Jamie: Ahh, that memory just jogged some part of my brain and brought it back. Ahh, great times.
[Andrew laughs]
Jamie: But it wasn’t news only. I mean, even from the first one, right?
Micah: No.
Andrew: Right, yeah, because we were talking about, yeah, Book 6 and what could happen in Book 7. But I guess maybe the original idea was to make it solely focused on news. But let’s listen to a couple of clips from Episode 1. So it was me, Ben, and Kevin, and then the rest of the people here on this panel today, they joined a couple episodes later. And I wanted to talk about these clips, because we were making some predictions. So here’s the first clip, and this recording was a hot mess, so bear with us. [laughs]
[Audio clip plays]
Kevin: Now, have you guys heard that theory about Harry?
Andrew: About Harry being a Horcrux?
Kevin: A lot of people have been posing that to me in questions in my email and I just wanted to know what you guys think about it.
Ben: Yeah, the thing that completely destroys that theory… tons of people have sent this in, that Harry’s scar is a Horcrux or Harry himself being a Horcrux… the only issue here is that Dumbledore told Harry that he has to destroy each individual Horcrux, then destroy the one that Voldemort is inhabiting — the one that gave him his body back. The thing is, Harry would have to first kill himself and then kill Voldemort in order to save the wizarding world, which really doesn’t seem very likely.
Kevin: But I think that’s why they suggested the scar, because I believe if… remember the first book when Dumbledore introduced Harry, and McGonagall, I believe, made a comment about Harry’s scar and Dumbledore removing it? And he said, “Even if I could, scars tend to come in useful every once in a while. I have a perfect map of the London underground.”
Andrew: Yeah, I think I remember that.
Ben: Yeah.
Kevin: Do you remember that?
Andrew: Yeah, yeah, yeah!
Kevin: Well, he suggested removing it, and what a lot people have been sending to me… and I mean, I can’t make a clear judgment whether it’s a possible theory or not. But they’ve been saying it’s possible that Harry will have to remove his own scar and break the connection between him and Voldemort completely.
[Audio clip ends]
Andrew: You guys remember, this was a big debate going into Book 7. Is Harry a Horcrux?
Laura: Oh, yeah.
Micah: So Ben was completely wrong.
[Everyone laughs]
Jamie: Screwed that one up.
Micah: Yep.
Andrew: A lot of people were on his side, in fairness, though. But then there was this idea floated that Harry would have to somehow sacrifice himself, and that was spot on.
Micah: I want to know who’s messaging Kevin directly. He said he’s getting all these messages.
Jamie: Yeah, all these… he’s overwhelmed with messages.
Micah: “Dear Kevin…”
[Everyone laughs]
Jamie: Yeah, Kevin, you aren’t fooling anyone. This was Episode 1. No one was listening yet.
[Laura and Micah laugh]
Andrew: Well, was Kevin in charge of the editorial section or something on MuggleNet? Because I was surprised by that comment too, but he must have been doing something on MuggleNet where he was getting emails all the time. Or he was just lying. One of the two.
Jamie: I don’t remember that.
Laura: Yeah. I mean, I will say we all had @staff.MuggleNet.com email addresses…
Micah: That’s true.
Laura: … and I seem to remember people… because they were all listed on the staff page. And I do remember getting random emails even before MuggleCast. I think people just… they saw a contact and they were like, “Oh, let me write in.”
Jamie: The real news from that is how old fashioned it is to have @staff.MuggleNet.com.
Laura: I know.
Jamie: Nowadays you just have @MuggleNet.com. I mean, that’s ridiculous. That tells the time.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Laura: Or you just have Gmail.
Jamie: You just have Gmail. Yeah, but that wouldn’t have felt so good.
Andrew: Or, you know, social media.
Jamie: Yeah, true.
Andrew: This next clip… there was speculation over whether Harry would hunt for Horcruxes on his own, and I want to play this one because we were wrong.
[Audio clip plays]
Andrew: These Horcruxes, they are just so involved and so in-depth, that it seems to me that all of Book 7 is going to be dedicated to these, and it could almost be called “Harry Potter and the Seven Horcruxes.” Although that would be pretty lame.
Jamie: Oh, my word.
Kevin: Yeah, it would. But yeah, I mean, the whole topic of the book is going to be the Horcruxes.
Andrew: Right.
Kevin: It is going to be that and him training.
Ben: I think Harry is going to have a difficult job just trying to find the Horcruxes.
Kevin: Oh, of course, because he’s doing it almost alone.
Ben: Right.
Kevin: To be honest, I don’t see Ron and Hermione leaving. I don’t see them leaving. Although, at the same time, JKR did pose the possibility that Hogwarts won’t be open, in which case they’d be available to help him. But I don’t see… if it is open, I don’t see them leaving Hogwarts. So I am fairly sure that Harry has to do this largely on his own.
[Audio clip ends]
Andrew: So obviously, Ron and Hermione went with Harry to hunt for the Horcruxes.
Laura: Womp womp.
Jamie: Oh dear number two. Who was the first person speaking on that one?
Andrew: That was me!
Micah: Andrew.
Jamie: I mean, your voice changed a lot.
[Micah laughs]
Andrew: Little me. I was very shy recording in my childhood bedroom with my brother and sister through the walls.
[Laura and Micah laugh]
Jamie: Yeah, that is great, though. I honestly didn’t recognize you. Yeah, it’s changed a lot.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: Kevin sounds exactly the same.
Jamie: He does. He sounds identical, yeah.
Andrew: [imitating Kevin] He does. He sounds very similar to how he does now. He hasn’t changed.
[Laura laughs]
Jamie: And Ben going, “Uh-huh, uh-huh,” while Kevin is speaking. Sounds like he’s getting more and more annoyed and ready to jump in and just end Kevin.
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: Well, I listened to that whole episode to prepare for today’s episode, and everybody’s talking over each other. It’s just a total mess. [laughs]
Favorite MuggleCast moments
Andrew: So let’s move on to our own favorite MuggleCast moments. And to start this portion of the show, we want to play a prerecorded clip from Eric. Eric couldn’t be here today.
Jamie: Why couldn’t he be here?
Andrew: He booked a trip! During a pandemic!
Jamie: Well, that’s a lie.
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: Anyway, here’s Eric’s thoughts on his favorite MuggleCast moments over the years.
[Audio clip plays]
Eric: Hey, everyone. I feel bad about not being able to be on today’s episode, but looking back over the last 15 years of MuggleCast, and I could not be more proud of the show that we have all built. MuggleCast came to me towards the end of my high school era, but really felt like the first group that I ever belonged to. It was so fun coming together as a group at conventions and live podcasts, and it brought with it a, really, confidence in me to be a MuggleCaster, to be part of the MuggleCasters that are traveling the world. And I know we recently looked back on Book 7’s release and all that that meant, and that whole trip, and that certainly is a highlight of what has occurred, but it’s a small smidgen of all of the experiences as a whole, and my personal favorite moment in doing this show has been all the interactions between me and listeners, whether it’s an email, whether it’s in person, whether it’s random, or trying to get a mug hand-delivered because the other ones broke. It has been a wild journey, and Patreon has really brought out a lot of people who really care about the show in that extra way, and I think it’s really reinstated some confidence, re-instilled some confidence in me, and if I could speak for the panel as well, that people want to see this show on the air. So you know what? I say 15 years has been, and here’s to 15 more. [laughs] I don’t know what we’re going to talk about, but we’re going to work it out. And that’s the thing, is really, this fandom has been so giving to all of us, individually and as a group, and I really don’t see that stopping. So thank you all very much, and happy 15th birthday, MuggleCast.
[Audio clip ends]
Laura: Aww.
Andrew: I like what Eric said about being a part of a group. I think that was a big thing for all of us at the beginning. I was a total outcast in high school; I had no friends, and just being a part of not just MuggleCast, but MuggleNet, was a huge deal for me. Everybody was online; it was all digital, but it was so nice to be a part of a group.
Laura: Agreed. I was homeschooled when I joined MuggleCast, so I really had a very limited friend circle before I did this, you know. And I mean, we’re going to get into this in a few minutes, but this was really sort of like a launchpad to the lifelong friendships that I think we all… I hope we all developed through this.
Andrew: Yes, exactly.
Micah: Right, Jamie? Lifelong friendships.
[Everyone laughs]
Jamie: You guys are all chuckling nervously, like, “I hope…” Have some confidence, guys.
Andrew: Is Jamie still our friend? [fake cries]
Jamie: Of course. Forever, forever.
Andrew: Aww.
Jamie: No, I think it’s a good point. It was crazy enjoyable times, making friends with people that weren’t in your town, weren’t in your country, and just sort of being thrown together in this wild journey. And great memories, just exploring Harry Potter and just exploring the world. And yeah, it was fun. It was super fun.
Andrew: I always really enjoyed the big news episodes of MuggleCast, like when a new cover was released, or when they announced that Deathly Hallows was going to be split into two movies. And of course, the live episodes we’ve done over the years. I know one in particular that people really enjoyed, so it’s become one of my favorites, too, is the episode where somebody wrote in complaining that we accidentally left a curse word in. [laughs] And then the whole start of the following episode was just, I think, me cursing a lot, but it was all censored out. People really enjoyed that. And you guys remember – this was probably by far my favorite moment, because this was just so me – when Steve Jobs showed MuggleCast on his screen during a Keynote presentation.
Laura and Micah: Yes.
Andrew: That was the best, and I’m going to play a clip. So what had happened was this was an Apple Keynote in September 2005, right after the Harry Potter audiobooks came to iTunes. Because of this announcement, they were making little references to Harry Potter throughout the Keynote, so this is what happened.
[Audio clip plays]
Steve Jobs: And now let me go ahead and search for something. I’m in my library, and I’m going to search for “Harry.” And obviously I’ve got a bunch of Harry Potter stuff, but you can see the search bar up here, so I can just say music, and I’ve got some songs about Harry that have nothing to do with Harry Potter. In audiobooks, though, everything has to do with Harry Potter, if I wanted to find one of those really fast. You know what, though? There’s even podcasts about Harry Potter. Here are some of them. It’s amazing.
[Audio clip ends]
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: Wow.
Andrew: And my name entered Steve Jobs’s eyes for a fleeting moment, and then he never thought of me again.
[Everyone laughs]
Jamie: But he was a fan.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: Which is more meaningful, Andrew? Meeting Leo Laporte, or your name entering Steve Jobs’s eyes?
Jamie: Good question.
Andrew: That’s tough. Probably entering Steve Jobs’s eyes, because he’s a genius. Leo is cool, but…
Jamie: Andrew, it’s amazing how these things come full circle. Talking about Apple today… so weird; yesterday was the first time the thought entered my head that it’s time to retire my Apple Cinema Display that I took back from your house. [laughs]
Andrew: Oh my God. You still have an Apple Display that I gave you?
Jamie: I do, I do.
Andrew: Holy cow.
Jamie: But just to be fair, it’s my second screen. So I’ve got my main screen, which is far more modern, and then I have dual screens on my laptop, and that one is the second one. But I have to say, compared to my one that I bought a year and a half ago, it’s crap. But they still hold their value.
Andrew: Oh, yeah.
Jamie: They’re still worth, like, 40 quid or something like that.
Andrew: Instead of throwing that out, can you just send it back to me?
Jamie: [laughs] Yeah, sure. That’s going to cost more than you buying a Mac Pro or whatever is the top one now.
Andrew: [laughs] How about everybody else? Favorite MuggleCast moments over the years.
Micah: I mean, I’ve probably spoken about this a number of times, but the opportunity to interview David Heyman. This was way back on Episode 200 when we were celebrating 200 episodes. And obviously, the producer of all of the Harry Potter films, now working on Fantastic Beasts as well. But Eric and I…
Jamie: And Paddington.
Micah: And Paddington, yeah. Great movie, by the way, if you haven’t seen it.
Andrew: [laughs] It is.
Micah: It really is. And just how gracious he was with his time; we were maybe only hoping for 20 minutes or so, and I think he ended up speaking to us for close to an hour. And just the passion with which he talked about the series; you could tell that he really cared about it. And he’s been one of several guests that we’ve had over the years, but just being able to sit down, really, with the person who has brought Potter to life on screen was a lot of fun.
Laura: So this is where I get to tell my story about me complaining and getting to be on the panel.
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: So y’all were a few episodes in, and we had a few threads in the staff forums, I remember, talking about the podcast, and there were staff members making suggestions for what should happen, and I decided to get on my high horse and get in there and be like, “How do you not have a girl on this panel? Like, seriously?”
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: I was like, “Most of the fandom… I would say 60% of the fandom is female. You have to have female representation on here.”
Andrew: Right.
Laura: And in retrospect, I’m like, oh my God. Everybody was, like, 16. Nobody here… we weren’t professionals. This isn’t like an HR issue.
[Everyone laughs]
Jamie: It’s good you made it one, though. Representing early. Lifelong feminist.
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: Right, but I decided to make it one. And then Andrew, very kindly, was like, “Okay, well, do you want to come on?” And I was like, “Well, I didn’t mean me.”
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: There’s this girl named Sarah; I don’t know if you’ve heard of her.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: We must have asked Sarah.
Laura: But honestly, if I’m looking back and being honest, I kind of did mean me.
Andrew: Oh, really? Were you just shy?
Laura: I was shy, but I was also maybe a little bit jealous because I thought it was really cool. So yeah, that’s the story of how my jealousy and high horse morality got me onto the show.
Jamie: It gets you far in life. I like it.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: I guess… I don’t know why we didn’t pick a girl. I mean, honestly, maybe part of the reason is we were just embarrassed to talk to girls. We were just shy or something. [laughs]
Jamie: I think also, Andrew, it’s really easy to put our current brains back, but we were, like, 16.
Andrew: Right.
Laura: Yeah!
Jamie: I’m sure we weren’t in a boardroom being like, “How’s this going to go down?”
Andrew: Right. “We need diversity on this panel.” [laughs]
Jamie: Yeah, yeah.
Laura: It was also 2006. I mean, not that… we have these conversations a lot, right? But it’s not that it makes it better, but it was a different time, and we were all teenagers.
Jamie: It’s weird when you say that. It’s crazy to think that. Teenagers.
Laura: I also really enjoyed Pickle Pack. You guys remember Pickle Pack?
Andrew and Jamie: Yeah.
Jamie: I had this one as well.
Laura: I was always late for my blogs, and…
[Andrew laughs]
Jamie: Same.
Andrew: This is why we didn’t want to bring you on board, Laura. We didn’t think you were going to be reliable.
Laura: I know.
Andrew: [laughs] I’m kidding.
Laura: That’s right; I’m still not. And then also, Lumos 2006. It was my first live show in Vegas, and it was also the first time meeting a lot of the panel for me. And then even later on that summer, when we went to New York City, it was my first time meeting Micah, so that was the summer that I really got to see all of you in person, and it was cool.
Jamie: Now let me just check this one. Lumos 2006 was the first convention we did. Andrew, it was when I met you in that casino. Do you remember that?
Andrew: Yes!
Jamie: When I just got off the flight and I just got in that taxi and came there and met you there. That was Lumos, wasn’t it? That was the first show we ever did.
Andrew: Yes, that was the one.
Jamie: That was cracking. That was Cracker Jack. That was good.
Andrew: For all of you American listeners, that means a really good time.
Jamie: How do you know that?
Andrew: Well, I assume that’s what you mean. [laughs] I don’t think you had a bad time.
Jamie: No, you’re right. You’re right. You guessed right.
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: Were you all nervous? I was really nervous before I met everybody.
Andrew: Meeting everybody for the first time? Yeah.
Jamie: I think so. Yeah, no, I was. I was excited, though. But for a Brit coming across there, I was like, “Oh, Vegas as well. What a chance. What a place to meet everyone and do this.”
Andrew: Right, right. Of course, we were all underage, so we couldn’t gamble. We couldn’t technically drink. But Vegas was also the place where I had my first drink that trip. [laughs]
Laura: I was going to say, that didn’t stop anyone.
Jamie: Like a 0% beer, right?
Andrew: Right, the 0% beer that I spit up because I was so disgusted by it.
[Andrew and Jamie laugh]
Micah: Do you remember, Jamie, when we were in… I think it was Philadelphia. We were doing… was it Enlightening? Is that what was the name of the…?
Jamie: Yeah, yeah, it was.
Micah: It was a very small convention.
Jamie: It was a small one, yeah.
Micah: And you and I had to go out to get beverages, and you were actually able… I don’t think you were 21 at the time, but you were able to purchase because the switch in the day and the month of your ID was enough to fool whoever was selling.
Jamie: So you’re right, but you’ve placed it wrongly. I tell you, it wasn’t there. Oh no, wait, it might have been there, but it was at that medieval banquet thing. Do you remember that?
Andrew: Oh, in California?
Micah: Okay. What medieval banquet?
Jamie: I honestly can’t remember where it was.
Andrew: You mean Medieval Times?
Jamie: Medieval Times, yeah, where you drink mead and eat chicken and watch people on…
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: I don’t think Micah was there, but…
Jamie: Oh, Micah, maybe it was a…
Micah: I wasn’t there.
Jamie: No, it was there. Maybe I used it again.
Micah: You’re a repeat offender, is what this is.
[Andrew and Micah laugh]
Jamie: A repeat offender, yeah. Well, maybe it happened when we went out for Enlightening, but I do remember here, because I remember it was the 12th of the 7th, and my birthday is the 7th of the 12th, so I got drunk on mead at this Medieval Times thing. It was fantastic.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: Well, no, because 2007… the convention was either just before Deathly Hallows was released, or just after it. And there was this little bar that you could go to on the campus – I think it was UPenn that we were at – and all the college kids were there that were there for the summer, but you could also actually buy beer and take it back. I don’t know. Anyway. I think, Andrew, weren’t you there? That place that we did that live show, that you said was one of the best acoustically we’ve ever done?
Andrew: Oh my God. I said that? I’m such a loser.
[Laura and Micah laugh]
Andrew: What am I, a rock star? “The best acoustically.”
Micah: No, it was in a really old building on the campus there.
Andrew: Yeah, I remember that.
Micah: So the sound was really good. Your parents were there; your sister was there.
Andrew: Right, right, yeah. But Lumos, a lot of classic Jamie moments came out of Lumos.
Micah: Okay, back to Vegas.
Andrew: Right, yeah, back to Vegas, please. [laughs] No, I mean, Jamie, remember the Bellagio fountains? And you just fell in love with “I’m Proud to Be an American.”
Jamie: Oh, God, they were so cool. Yeah, yeah. I actually watched Ocean’s Eleven recently again.
Andrew: Oh, nice. That was also your Cascada summer. “Everytime We Touch.” You were obsessed with that song. [laughs]
Jamie: Oh, what a song. Haven’t listened to that in years; still like it, though.
Andrew: [laughs] And Jamie, how about you? What are your favorite moments over the years?
Jamie: Yeah, so I had a few. So first the Pickle Pack. I shared Laura’s anxiety when I was late…
[Andrew and Laura laughs]
Jamie: … and I was like, “Let me think… I just can’t think of something good this week.” I tried to come up with interesting stuff, I really did, if anyone’s listening who was a Pickle Pack member. I really tried, but sometimes it was so hard. But one thing that stands out for me… I can still see the layout of Pickle Pack, the website in my head. And the slogan was probably not our finest moment.
Andrew: No?
Jamie: I think of Mad Men and Don Draper and advertising, coming up with a slogan for a thing called Pickle Pack, and they’re like, after hours of brainstorming, “What about ‘It’s a pack of pickles’?”
[Everyone laughs]
Micah: Yeah, I’m still trying to figure out the tie to Harry Potter.
Andrew: So we had the pickle catchphrase on the show. It started because over on PotterCast, Melissa was starting every episode with, “Hello, Potter potties. Hello, Potter people. Hello…” She would say Potter and then a P word. And then one week, we decided to make fun of that, and then I said, I think, “Hello, Potter pickles.” And then it just blew up from there somehow. As for that slogan, I feel like that may have been the shirt designer. I think we should just blame him, because he came up with the T-shirt design, and I think while designing it, he needed a slogan, so he just slapped that in there.
Jamie: He needs some training. “It’s a pack of pickles.” That means nothing.
Andrew: He’s no Don Draper.
Jamie: I mean, it’s literally nothing.
Laura: Y’all, I managed the MuggleCast P.O. Box during the Pickle Pack era. We got so much pickle stuff sent to us.
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: I remember somebody sent us a yodeling pickle. It was a plastic pickle that had a button and you pushed it and it would yodel.
Micah: Oh, yeah. That’s a big thing for Christmas trees.
Jamie: Is it?
Laura: Why? [laughs]
Andrew: Well, putting a pickle…
Micah: It’s a German tradition.
Andrew: Yes.
Micah: You hide the pickle inside the Christmas tree. Now, whether it’s supposed to yodel or not, that’s a whole ‘nother story.
[Laura and Micah laugh]
Andrew: I don’t think the yodeling part is part of the tradition, but yes.
Jamie: Well, I remember a wand. A pickle wand.
Andrew: Oh my gosh.
Laura: Yes, I was going to bring this up!
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: Somebody hand-carved us wands that had pickles as the grip.
Jamie: And they even had it inside of the pickle as well on the grip. It was very lifelike.
Andrew: Wow.
Jamie: It was very good. It was like a cross section of a pickle. It was very impressive.
Laura: And it had all of our names carved into it as well.
Andrew: That’s amazing. Damn.
Jamie: That was cool. That stands out in my mind. The best thing I think I ever got was a Marauder’s Map that was calligraphy on really nice parchment. That was really nice. I think I’ve still got that, actually.
Andrew: I thought you were going to say a Marauder’s Map made of pickles or something. [laughs] Pickles all over the map.
Jamie: Now, that would be amazing. That would be amazing. No, Pickle Pack was one. Live tours in general; I just had so much fun on them. They were just fantastic, hanging out with you guys, and seeing people who had been listening and just bouncing off people. It was just fantastic. And then one thing from the actual podcast, when we recorded it, was hearing people’s utter desperation when they were on the clock to make a connection between two things that you couldn’t make a connection between.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Jamie: I just heard their voice quivering. But then you guys pulled it out of the bag so much that I was just like, “Yeah, that’s a good answer.” And then I can’t remember who was at… I think this was the Book 7 launch at Waterstones in London, and if you guys remember, there were so many people, we had the main podcast floor on floor eight or whatever, and then on floor nine above was everyone else with these screens. And I remember, Andrew, you were like, “Hey guys, for the guys listening above, why don’t you make some noise?” And you didn’t tell people to do this, but everyone just started stamping their feet, and it was like an earthquake. And I remember they killed two lights on the ceiling of the floor that we were on; they just went out, and I was like, “That is cool.”
Andrew: [laughs] That’s when we knew we made it.
Jamie: Very rockstar.
Andrew: Yeah, exactly. I wonder if I spoke about the acoustics at that venue that day.
Jamie: Probably.
Andrew: “Whoa, man, these acoustics. Wow, they’re something else.” Yeah. We have a lot more to get to on this special episode of MuggleCast celebrating our 15th anniversary, but first, a word from our newest sponsor, BetterHelp.
[Ad break]
Favorite fandom moments
Andrew: Okay, so let’s talk about the fandom. Let’s talk about our favorite fandom moments. The Deathly Hallows – Part 2 premiere in London was a big one. Of course, that was when J.K. Rowling said that iconic line, “Hogwarts will always be there to welcome you home.” And that was a big deal, because that really felt like that was the end of the Harry Potter fandom. I mean, it was like somebody died. People watching that premiere, which was livestreamed around the world, it just felt like a big ending. And of course, the movie was coming up; it was going to premiere in theaters maybe just a week later. So that was a big one, and I think people really needed to hear that from J.K. Rowling, like, “Don’t worry; things may be coming to an end, but you always will be able to escape to Hogwarts.” So that was nice. Something that also just randomly stuck with me was J.K. Rowling entering the theater for the Cursed Child. I had been at the opening preview night, and when she came in, it was just like a rock star coming into the room. Jamie, by the way, have you seen the Cursed Child?
Jamie: I have not.
Andrew: Okay. Do you want to?
Jamie: Yeah, I wouldn’t mind. Yeah, we talked about going a while ago, but just never got around to it. But it’s been on my list, but obviously, it’s off my list temporarily. But no, I do want to go.
Andrew: And then, of course, our first live Harry Potter podcast back in 2005. We did that in New York City around the Goblet of Fire premiere, and that was a big deal for us, because that was the first time that… I guess this counts as a favorite MuggleCast memory, technically, but that was the first time we were actually meeting the listeners, and we just did not know what to expect. And so many people turned out, and so many people told us how much they loved the show, that it was just a really wonderful moment.
Jamie: Hey, wasn’t that the one we got kicked out early?
Andrew: At that same venue, yes, but it was the following summer.
Jamie: Was it?
Andrew: Yeah, it was August. It was so hot outside, and we wrapped up the show, and we were meeting with listeners, and then the staff of Barnes & Noble Union Square, they were like, “All right, guys, please get out. Please get out.” It was like, “Okay, let’s all go out into the sweltering heat.”
Micah: It’s like, “You’re welcome for us bringing all those people in to buy those books from you.”
Andrew: Right, exactly.
[Laura laughs]
Micah: No, but I also say that was the first time not just meeting listeners, but meeting each other for many of us, right, in 2005?
Andrew: Yeah, exactly.
Laura: Yeah, so the first thing that comes to me is the Half-Blood Prince release, because I actually got together with a bunch of MuggleNet fanfiction moderators, because I came into MuggleNet as a fanfiction moderator – and actually met my best friend that way, met people that I’m still in contact with that way – and we all decided to get together for the release of Half-Blood Prince. And it was the first time I got to experience a book release with a group of people who were as excited about it as I was, and that was really cool, because we all went to the release party together, and we went back to our friend’s house, and we all just sat in the den and read. It was like, eight, nine of us in there, just silently reading.
Jamie: Oh, I remember those den parties. You’d get the book, and everyone would be best friends, and then you’d get back to the hotel; you’d just be like, “Yeah, just be quiet now.”
Laura: “Just leave me alone.”
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Laura: So that was great. I mean, all of summer 2007, of course. That was a whirlwind summer, because we had the Order of the Phoenix premiere, which was the one premiere that I got to attend, which was really cool. And I don’t remember who, but somebody on staff gave me their ticket to the afterparty so that I could go to that, and that was really cool. And I actually got to say hi to Dan and hug Rupert, which was really cool.
Andrew: Oh, you hugged Rupert? That’s sweet.
Laura: I did, I did. I asked him first. Consent.
Andrew: Was that the premiere where Ben tried to get Emma Watson’s number?
Laura: Oh yeah, and her bouncer, like, blocked him? Yes.
Andrew: [laughs] I mean, of course that was going to happen.
Laura: That was the one. But that was a great time. And then I also have to say that the Dumbledore is gay reveal… and I know that in retrospect, people crap on this a little bit because they’re like, “Oh, J.K. Rowling retconning her characters” and whatever, but this was a big deal in 2007. I think we have to remember to put ourselves in the mindset of the time and remember that marriage equality was not a thing in 2007. And I remember being in the audience when she made this announcement, and I have a specific memory, Andrew, of you coming up out of your seat…
[Everyone laughs]
Laura: … and clapping a whole bunch. And I was like, “Imagine what this must mean to people who are hearing this live, that one of their favorite, most iconic book characters has this in common with them.”
Andrew: Yeah. Well, I’m not sure I even knew that I had it in common with Dumbledore at the time. Maybe.
[Andrew and Jamie laugh]
Laura: Uh…
Jamie: I think you did.
Laura: Pretty sure we’d already had that discussion.
Andrew: Oh, yeah. Okay, all right, fine. Yeah, and actually, you mentioned the Book 7 release, and one of the classic… another classic Jamie story is Jamie, you were crying at midnight when the book came out. Do you remember that?
[Laura laughs]
Jamie: I do remember that. Not a huge amount of it, but I remember drinking a load of free raspberry champagne. It was amazing.
Andrew: [laughs] I like how you remember the flavor.
Jamie: Yeah, no, because it was so nice. And then I remember blacking out, crying, and then… do you guys remember Jerry? Jerry the staffer?
Andrew: Yeah, yeah.
Jamie: I don’t know if he still works for MuggleNet. But anyway, I remember I used to get on really well with Jerry, and I remember he said to me afterwards, “That was really rude.” And I said, “What?” And he said, “What you said to me.” And I said, “Jerry, I honestly don’t know what you’re talking about.” And apparently I’d gone up to him and been like, “Why are you here? This is the VIP.”
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew and Laura: Oh my God!
Andrew: Yeah, we were in this “VIP” area because we had just hosted the podcast, and they had this special little midnight release.
Jamie: I have to say, I feel bad even bringing this up, because this is… people know, this is not me at all. And I felt awful with… yeah, I felt so bad afterwards and I apologized. I literally don’t even remember saying it.
Andrew: That’s what raspberry champagne does to you. It tastes so good.
Jamie: Yeah, don’t drink it. Don’t drink it. It’s not good at all. But that’s on my list as well. That was such a good event. Everything about that was just… and I remember Sky News being there and just explaining to them… they had a big camera, and I was just telling them about the fandom and stuff, and yeah, just on top of the world. That was a great one. Actually, overall, just the live podcasts and conventions for me were just… yeah, just meeting everyone and talking stuff through, getting theories from people, chatting with people, was good. But actually, Laura, Half-Blood Prince release; you jogged a memory because I had Order of the Phoenix book release. So I remember it was in London, and I think just Emerson was over there for that. But I remember after the launch, going into the shop – I think it was Waterstones – and Order of the Phoenix is such an iconic spine, the yellow, the garish yellow on it. And there were so many of them, and I just… that was my moment when I was like, “Holy crap, this is so big.” There were so many of these. I think it was the first huge print run, or maybe the fourth book was, the Goblet of Fire, was the first sort of huge print run. But this was just massive, and it really blew me away. But Half-Blood Prince was at Edinburgh Castle, and that was amazing. That was when J.K. Rowling appeared, and everyone just went crazy.
Andrew: How about you, Micah?
Micah: Well, I can’t top that.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Jamie: Yeah, that was great.
Micah: Seriously. I mean, to say Pottermore after that is…
[Everyone laughs]
Micah: No, but I think this speaks to, Laura, like you had mentioned – or maybe you just have it in here – discovering the Deathly Hallows title on J.K. Rowling’s old website, just her old website in general. And I think she took a similar approach to announcing Pottermore, where she would give these clues to all these different fan websites, and some media, I think, too. And there were coordinates, and it was really wild, and I think you had to go into different locations on Google Maps to find the letters that spelled out “Pottermore.”
Jamie: Oh, yeah.
Micah: And then, of course, we got all this information from Pottermore. Now it’s Potter-No-More, because it’s, what, WizardingWorld.com or something like that?
Andrew: Right.
Micah: But I think we were all excited as to what that was going to be and what was it going to mean. And we were thinking, “Oh, encyclopedia. Finally we’re going to get all the information that we’ve always wanted.” And we got some of it, but probably not all of it. A couple of events I did in New York… I don’t know if folks remember the Harry Potter Exhibition. I think it’s still touring, actually, somewhere around the world. But it opened here in New York at Discovery Times Square, and they did a whole red carpet event. I think it might have actually been one of the first live events I got a chance to cover on my own, so I was super nervous at the time. They had all these cast members that were there. And across the street, they set up these bleachers where fans could come and check everything out, and I just remember somebody after the fact sending in an email to MuggleNet saying, “Yeah, I was at the Exhibition opening. It was so great, but Micah was so rude, because he never came over and spoke to us the whole time that we were there.”
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: It’s like, you can’t win. The other weird thing about the Exhibition, too – and I know I’ve mentioned this before – they didn’t initially let you take pictures going through.
Andrew: Oh, yeah. That’s dumb.
Micah: Of all the props in the set, and that was just not cool. It’s like, what’s the point?
Andrew: Yeah, you need some memories. Jamie, if you haven’t been, you’ve got to go to the Studio Tour over there too. That’s awesome.
Jamie: Yeah, I still haven’t done that, but everyone has said it’s this… you spend hours there, all day there. It’s fantastic, especially the Great Hall, right?
Andrew: Yeah, yeah, super cool.
Jamie: Actually, one more on this one, which I teased at earlier, was… Andrew, you’ll remember this, when she did the reading in… where was it? Was it Radio City Hall with Stephen King?
Andrew and Laura: Yeah.
Micah: Harry, Carrie, and Garp?
Jamie: Yes, but if you remember who hosted it… I remember I was sitting next to Andrew, and we’d just come in, having a chat, and sat down, and I didn’t know who Jon Stewart was; I hadn’t heard of him. And I just remember him coming on stage, and I was going to turn to Andrew and just be like, “Oh, who is this guy?” And Laura, you saying about Andrew jumping out of the chair with the Dumbledore is gay reveal, he did the opposite, but he was as excited. I sort of turned to him, and he was foaming at the mouth.
Andrew: What?!
[Laura and Micah laugh]
Jamie: You were. You were so excited, but you didn’t know what to do with the excitement. You were sort of… it was weird.
Andrew: Maybe I was trying to tamp it down, to not be an embarrassment or not freak you out.
Jamie: Maybe, maybe. But you were a big fan of his, right?
Andrew: Yeah, yeah, Jon Stewart was a big deal back in the day with The Daily Show. I mean, he had a real hit with that show.
Micah: Didn’t we all go? Or am I making that up? Laura, didn’t we go?
Laura: We did.
Andrew: I didn’t go.
Laura: We went for my 21st birthday. Yeah, you did, Andrew. You were there.
Andrew: I went to a taping of The Daily Show?
Laura: Yes!
Andrew: No. 100% no.
Micah: Yes.
Andrew: No way.
Laura: Yeah, you did.
Andrew: No.
Micah: Laura probably has photo evidence somewhere.
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: I probably do.
Andrew: I remember you guys going to a taping of The Daily Show, but I don’t think I was there.
Jamie: You don’t remember if you were there or not?
Andrew: No, I don’t.
Micah: Did you have raspberry champagne before?
[Andrew laughs]
Jamie: Yeah, that’s true.
Andrew: That could be what happened.
Laura: No, I remember this because you and a couple others flew out to surprise me for my 21st birthday, and the surprise got spoiled before you got there, and I was like, “Hey, I know you’re coming,” and you were like, “Oh, thank God. I hate surprises.”
Andrew: [laughs] Interesting. Well, I have a terrible memory, evidently.
Laura: That’s okay. We got wasted. It’s fine. Probably won’t remember anything.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Favorite Harry Potter news items
Andrew: So we’ve kind of spoken about these before, just earlier, but I just want to touch on favorite major Harry Potter news items. Like I said, Book 7 being split into two movies. That was a huge deal, because it was like, “Wow, the life of the fandom is about to be extended.” So that was super cool. And I think as readers, we were really excited, because by splitting them, obviously it was a financial decision – they were going to double how much they made off of this book – but it was more time to tell the story, and as readers who want the movies to be loyal to the books, that was really important to us. And then J.K. Rowling announcing the Fantastic Beasts film series. Again, extending the life of the fandom. I don’t think any of us could have ever imagined that there was going to be another official Wizarding World project from J.K. Rowling.
Jamie: Especially that one, because I have to say, I really connected with that one much more than Quidditch Through the Ages. I just loved that you could read all about the different ones, so I remember hearing that and thinking, “I have no idea what the plot could be, because this book is not a narrative. It doesn’t really have characters.” It was more of a just encyclopedia, so I was thinking, “What’s this going to be like?”
Andrew: Right, and now it’s this back door for J.K. Rowling to tell the story of Dumbledore and Grindelwald and that whole battle. That seems like that’s where that series is heading. What other major news items should we call out?
Micah: Call out the announcement of the theme park. I thought that was huge. And Andrew, correct me if I’m wrong, but I think that took place from the set of Dumbledore’s office, initially. They did a big reveal.
Andrew: Yeah, yeah. And that was before livestreaming was really popular, but they did livestream it. And I think it was at 3:00 a.m. UK time or something because they were trying to time it with prime time over in Florida or something. I don’t know. But yeah, they did livestream it. It was a very big deal that they were creating this theme park.
Micah: Definitely. And I just think back on all the times, thankfully and luckily, that we’ve been able to go down there and spend time there and just to see it expand to what it is today, all the different rides. And I think if you haven’t had the chance to go, put it on the top of your list for Potter vacations, because you’ll have a great time.
Laura: Yeah, I also wanted to call out the theme park, mainly because I made a couple of visits to Universal while they were still building it, and during those times, of course, they had it all blocked off so you couldn’t go near it, but Hogwarts Castle is so tall that you can see the top of it, and it was just really cool to see the progression of them building it. And I just remember being so excited, and being like, “Oh my God, we’re going to come here,” and I was like, “We’re going to come here and do a live show. We’re absolutely going to.” And we did, and it was awesome. So that’s definitely a highlight. I also wanted to call out the Evanna Lynch casting, because didn’t she hear about the Luna Lovegood casting call through MuggleNet?
Jamie: Yes. We went for dinner with her. Who was there? I know Ben was there. I was there. Andrew, you were there, weren’t you?
Andrew: I have no recollection of anything.
Jamie: Well, that doesn’t meant anything. I’ve learned that means nothing.
[Everyone laughs]
Jamie: I’m pretty sure you were there.
Andrew: Yeah, that rings the bell.
Jamie: Yeah, it was in London. I think it was in London after some event. We went to dinner somewhere. That was cool. That was a great story, that was. This stuff is very… a lot of you guys’ stuff is more recent, when you guys would be doing it and I’d kind of faded away a bit, but for me, the book title is just… hearing what they were really put you on a path of thinking about what was going to happen in the book, and I just remember hearing “The Deathly Hallows,” and I had no idea what it meant. And that was cool for me because, like, Prisoner of Azkaban kind of puts you down a kind of path, although maybe I’m just saying that with the benefit of hindsight. But I just remember Deathly Hallows, being like, “I have no idea what this is going to be, what it’s going to mean,” and that just always excited me, just hearing it. It made it real, you know?
Micah: No theory is safe, right, Jamie?
[Jamie and Laura laugh]
Jamie: Exactly.
Laura: No, I’m certain that we had at least one entire episode that we theorized about what we thought the Deathly Hallows were.
Jamie: What it could mean.
Andrew: And what I remember about the book and cover reveals is just they were typically made in the morning in the United States, and we were all in school when these announcements were being made, and I just remember having my laptop and thinking, “We’ve all got to get home and record a MuggleCast to talk about this!”
[Jamie laughs]
Andrew: And then we would record – probably early evening our time, late evening Jamie’s time – so we could talk about the big news items. But we had to wait till we all got home from school, so it was a bit of a issue to coordinate.
Laura: Do you remember for the Book 7 US cover, we were all theorizing about what that room was that Harry and Voldemort were in?
Jamie: Did we get it right?
Laura: No. [laughs] I think we thought it was the veil room, because it looked like stadium seating, which is how that’s described. But I’m pretty sure it was the Great Hall, right? It was that moment where he Disarms Voldemort, and we were all just… and then we were disappointed because we never got any more Department of Mysteries. Or at least, I was.
Andrew: Yeah, and we were talking about that after reading Book 7. And actually, there’s a clip of that on our social media channels – we posted it last week – where we’re like, “And that cover! It was the Great Hall after all? No way!”
Jamie: But it’s funny because I’m not even talking about that cover. When I talk about the cover, I’m talking about the UK cover.
Andrew: Oh, yeah.
Micah: Yeah, I was just going to say, I like that cover more for Deathly Hallows in the UK than the US version.
Andrew: Yes.
Laura: Same.
Jamie: And the Half-Blood Prince cover in the UK was fantastic, with the ring of fire.
Andrew: Oh, yeah. Yes, absolutely.
The future of Harry Potter
Andrew: So will the fandom still be kicking in another 15 years from now? I don’t think back in 2005 we were like, “Will this all still be here in 15 years?” We probably would have been like, “No, we’re going to be too old for stuff like that.” [laughs] But obviously, the fandom has changed over the past 15 years, with the core books and movies being out already. But Laura, what do you think? Will it still be here in another 15 years?
Laura: Yes. They’re very much setting the wizarding world up to be a living fandom.
Jamie: The Marvel universe.
Andrew: Yeah, Marvel.
Laura: Exactly. I think that that’s the route they’re going with it. I’m really excited to see… obviously, we’ve already seen this happen with the Cursed Child, which J.K. Rowling didn’t actually write, so they’ve already opened the door to other creators coming and playing in this space, and I’m excited to see what we get from that. Especially considering the fandom’s kind of complicated relationship with J.K. Rowling at this point, I’m really excited to see what other voices might bring to it. But I also think the TV show is going to happen. There’s no way there’s not going to be a TV show.
Andrew: Yeah, yeah. And if they do reboot the book series, that could easily be, like, 15 seasons. [laughs] They could just…
Jamie: Totally.
Andrew: Especially the later books. There’s plenty to work with.
Micah: I agree. I think so, and I think… just look back at other fan communities that are still around today. And I know Star Wars has obviously benefited from having a whole new slate of movies, but who’s to say that doesn’t happen? Kind of to what Laura was talking about with the TV show for Potter down the line. I mean, I think about comic cons, and just… this series isn’t going anywhere anytime soon. And even with the in-person meetings that we’ve been able to have with a lot of our listeners at the conventions. I’m thinking back to last year, right, Andrew? What we did in Orlando? We were there for Podcast Movement, and then what we did in Boston, just talking with all of the listeners and seeing how passionate they still are about it, passing it on to their kids and their families. I think that it will definitely still be kicking 15 years from now.
Jamie: Yeah, the reboot potential. I mean, I’m sure when the first films were made, there was thinking about a reboot at some point, take it down a different path. I mean, you couldn’t not, as a studio executive. But if it’s still going on 15 years, Andrew, from what we’ve heard today, I don’t think you’re going to remember starting it, telling you about what happened.
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: I do think of Star Wars when I think about the path that Harry Potter is on, because it is expanding, like with the Fantastic Beasts film series, with theme park attractions, with all the merchandise, with the play… obviously, Star Wars doesn’t have all these things, or they followed Harry Potter, like they did with the theme park. But yeah, I think it is going to keep expanding. I think it’s just a matter of how loose J.K. Rowling is willing to extend the leash. Does she want to be in control of everything, or is she going to let other creators create things that are officially canon? Writing a TV series, writing a new movie series, stuff like that. She’s going to have to let people get into her world if it’s going to be anything like Star Wars has become. And like you said, Micah, I mean, Star Wars has been around for so long. What, 40 years now? 45?
Micah: The ’70s.
Andrew: Yeah, and it’s still…
Micah: So yeah, and to your point, I mean, you have the benefit of having the author, right? I mean, I know it’s been controversial lately, but yeah, you still have the author who could write more if she chose to in this space, despite what she’s said.
Andrew: We are about to bring back an old game, Make the Music Connection, in which we try to insert a song into the world of Harry Potter – it’s a lot of fun – but first, a word from our second sponsor this week, BeachBody on Demand.
[Ad break]
Make the Music Connection
Andrew: Okay, so let’s play a game now. Jamie mentioned Make the Connection; we started doing Make the Music Connection probably a few years into MuggleCast, and I thought since we were celebrating 15 years of MuggleCast, we should play some songs from 2005 and make a connection between these songs and the Harry Potter series. So I think you three should take turns. I’m going to give you each a song, and you’re going to have to make the connection, so Jamie, you can enjoy the stress around this.
Jamie: Oh no. And also, I really don’t want to show my age not knowing this music. I hope I do.
Andrew: I think you’ll know. I think you’ll know. Do you want to go first?
Jamie: Let’s get it over and done with. Come on.
[Everyone laughs]
Jamie: Bring it on.
Andrew: Okay. I think you’ll know this song.
[“Sugar, We’re Goin Down” by Fall Out Boy plays]
Am I more than you bargained for yet?
I’ve been dying to tell you anything you want to hear
‘Cause that’s just who I am this week
Lie in the grass next to the mausoleum
I’m just a notch in your bedpost, but you’re just a line in a song
Jamie: I’m thinking frantically.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: Jamie, this was the song playing just before you went to talk to Jerry.
[Everyone laughs]
Jamie: Yeah, it got me going.
Andrew: We’re not at the chorus here, but this is “Sugar, We’re Goin Down” by Fall Out Boy. So make the connection, Jamie.
Jamie: Oh, God. Um… okay.
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: Is Jamie allowed to phone a friend?
Andrew: Yeah, sure. Laura is emo. She can help you.
[Laura laughs]
Jamie: Go on, Laura. Help me out here.
Laura: I’m still an emo kid. I was thinking of Harry entering the forest for his final showdown with Voldemort.
Andrew: Okay.
Jamie: Talk me through it.
[Andrew and Micah laugh]
Laura: Well, just the whole “We’re going down swinging.” It’s over.
Jamie: Ah, nice. Yes, yes. Good, good, good.
Andrew: Excellent.
Jamie: I’m going to take that one, Andrew.
Andrew: Okay, sure.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Jamie: Laura, I’ve got your back for your one, okay?
Laura: Thank you. I appreciate you.
Andrew: Laura, this can be yours, then, and Jamie can help you out.
[“Don’t Cha” by the Pussycat Dolls plays]
I know you want it
It’s easy to see
And in the back of your mind, I know you should be, oh, with me
Jamie: Just to warn you, Laura, I don’t know what this song is.
[Andrew laughs]
Don’t cha wish your girlfriend was hot like me?
Jamie: Oh, yes, I do. Sorry. I know the chorus.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Don’t cha wish your girlfriend was a freak like me?
Don’t cha?
Jamie: I’ve got one here. I’ve got one.
Andrew and Laura: Okay.
Laura: Jamie, lend the assist.
Jamie: Well, do you want it this early? Or do you want to give it a go yourself?
Laura: To be honest, I’m a little bit annoyed that I was given a pop song. Andrew knows this is not my strong suit.
Andrew: [laughs] But you know the song. “Don’t Cha” by the Pussycat Dolls.
Laura: I do. Yeah, I know it.
Jamie: Okay, I’m really thinking. I’m really thinking. This is Krum, Ron, and Hermione, that little triangle for the Yule Ball. When she’s got sass and attitude and Krum is all… well, actually, it doesn’t quite work, because he’s not really arrogant and throwing it in Ron’s face. But if he was, this would be perfect. So it’s not really there, but…
Laura: Well, this is how Ron sees it, though, right?
Jamie: True, true.
Laura: Ron interprets Krum as being very uppity.
Andrew: Okay.
Laura: He’s the enemy.
Micah: I was going to say this is what Dumbledore dances to in his office when he’s all by himself.
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: Okay, and here’s our last one.
[“Don’t Phunk with My Heart” by the Black-Eyed Peas plays]
No, no, no, no
Don’t phunk with my heart
I wonder if I take you home
Would you still be in love, baby? In love, baby?
I wonder if I take you home
Would you still be in love, baby? In love, baby?
Girl, you know you got me, got me
With your pistol shot me, shot me
And I’m here helplessly
In love, and nothing can stop me
You can’t stop me once I start it
Can’t return me once you bought it
Andrew: Okay, so this is “Don’t Phunk with My Heart” by Black-Eyed Peas. I miss this era of the Black-Eyed Peas.
Micah: Oof.
Andrew: Micah, do you have one for this?
Micah: I’ll go with just Snape and Lily.
Andrew: [laughs] Okay.
Jamie: Yeah, that’s good. I like it.
Micah: I couldn’t really… maybe a little Hagrid/Madame Maxime action going on. I don’t know.
[Andrew laughs]
Jamie: No, I think your first one was spot on. I could see him in his office listening to this, although obviously a lot of years later. [laughs] But I could still see him listen to this, just getting angry and getting emo and throwing potions around.
Andrew: Great job, everybody. That was Make the Music Connection, 2005 edition.
Show Outro
Andrew: So to close out the episode, we’re going to play a bunch of voice messages we received from listeners recalling their favorite fandom moments from over the years, so stay tuned for that. But I just wanted to wrap up here just by saying, why do we still love hosting MuggleCast after all this time? Or why do we still love MuggleCast after all this time? One of the biggest questions I still get about MuggleCast is “What do you guys talk about anymore?” [laughs] Jamie, you may be wondering that too.
[Jamie laughs]
Andrew: But we recently finished Chapter by Chapter. That’s always been a great source of material for us, just going through these books.
Jamie: I used to enjoy that one.
Andrew: Yeah, yeah. It’s been great, and we just wrapped up Order of the Phoenix. But for me, the bigger part of this is just the community. People still want to hear about Harry Potter. They still want to escape to the wizarding world. It’s just always been a source of comfort for people, even as we grow older. It’s just… it feels like home, to paraphrase J.K. Rowling. Everybody just wants that escape, and we want to give it to them. And there’s a thrill here with still doing it after all this time, and with this community, just having so many people still listen to the show really means a lot to us, and how can we let people down? And of course, we’re all good friends, too, so it’s just a good way to catch up, because we don’t see each other in person, given how we live in different parts of the country. So it’s just still genuinely a lot of fun.
Laura: Yeah, kind of piggybacking off of that, another part of the fandom still craving outlets in order to consume Harry Potter, we have listeners now who are younger than the show.
Jamie: That’s crazy.
Laura: We routinely get emails from people that are like, “Hey, MuggleCast. I’m 9 years old.”
[Andrew laughs]
Laura: And it’s so cool to watch kids discovering Harry Potter, and it’s so nostalgic because, of course, it reminds us of when we were discovering Harry Potter. And we get so many good questions from people, and there’s just so much literary analysis that you can dive into with these books, especially when you look at it through the lens of different portions of your life. The way that I interpreted Harry Potter as a 15-year-old is very different from how I interpret it as a 31-year-old, and we’ve definitely had discussions on this show in the last few months where we’ve been like, “Oh, man, that’s a deep cut. I didn’t realize that’s what this was about when I was younger, and now that I’m older and I can fully appreciate it, it just makes the books that much more meaningful for me.”
Andrew and Micah: Yeah.
Micah: I think that it’s what’s been said, and then also just it’s fun. I look forward to that escape every week, that get-together with Andrew, Laura, Eric… Jamie.
[Andrew laughs]
Micah: Thank you for coming back, man, because it’s a throwback too. The fact that we can just sit here and have this conversation like it’s 10 years ago or 15 years ago, I think, speaks volumes. And we’ve been very fortunate, I think, in a lot of ways, and I think we’ve forged these lifelong friendships, as was mentioned. And I’ve done a lot of planning of a lot of chapter discussions over the course of the last couple months, but it doesn’t ever feel like it’s work. I love drawing those connections, like Laura, you mentioned, and seeing things that I wouldn’t have seen 15 years ago, and bringing them up for discussion and listening to what you all have to say.
Jamie: Fine, obviously I’m not doing this regularly, but ten years gone by, this feels normal. Kind of feels like I’m back being 20, 21, on the computer. We’re swearing, and Andrew is getting more and more annoyed because he’s going to have to edit it out.
[Everyone laughs]
Andrew: And listening to Cascada…
Micah: We didn’t tell you; you can say whatever you want now.
Jamie: Ooh, lovely.
[Laura and Micah laugh]
Andrew: No, you can’t. No! Don’t give him…
Jamie: I remember him being like, “Guys, come on. Guys, guys.”
Andrew: “Don’t curse.” [laughs]
Jamie: Yeah, no, it gets you right in the feels. This is nice. This is nice; it’s like being back ten years and doing this.
Andrew: Good, good.
Jamie: It’s all good.
Andrew: Yeah. Well, Jamie, I think I have to put you on the spot one more time. Can you give the listeners a British Joke of the Week?
Jamie: You know, I had in my mind that you might ask me this.
Andrew: Oh, good.
[Everyone laughs]
Jamie: I started formulating a joke, and I didn’t formulate enough. I’m sorry, everyone. I did not formulate enough to turn it into a joke. I feel confident actually saying it, okay? But because I’m now a dad, as I’ve mentioned a few times already, it had to be a dad joke now. Not that I’m saying the old ones were funny; I’m sure they were pretty cringeworthy. But so I was going down this path of being a dad and a daughter talking about their favorite Disney films, Pixar films – can’t remember who made it – but anyway, and one of them says Frozen. Well, they do a competition, and Frozen comes out as the winner. And then I was going down the daughter rubbing it in, rubbing it in, rubbing it in, going on, the dad getting more and more annoyed, more and more annoyed, and then he’s like, “Oh, why can’t you just let it go?”
[Everyone laughs]
Jamie: That’s where I was going with it.
Andrew: All right. That’s okay.
Jamie: Anyway, so that’s not really a joke. That’s not really a joke, okay?
Andrew: It’s a pun.
Jamie: It’s a pun. It’s a story. So I didn’t quite get there, guys. I’m sorry. I thought it might be coming.
Andrew: We’ll take it.
Laura: I love it. We’ll accept it.
Andrew: That works. Like I said at the top of the show, I’m so glad that you haven’t changed a bit. Clearly, all of us haven’t… I mean, we’ve changed, obviously, but we can all still get together and have a lot of fun doing this podcast. And it’s been so great to have you on, Jamie! Thanks for joining us!
Jamie: No worries, guys. It’s been a pleasure, a real pleasure.
Andrew: Yeah. Good, good. And thank you, everybody, for listening. Whether you are 9 years old and just discovered the podcast last week, or you’ve been listening for all 15 years, 10 years, 5 years, whatever it is, thank you so much for listening to this podcast. It means the world to us. We’re here because of you, and we greatly appreciate it. The show has given us so much, including, as you can tell today, some really special friendships. And gosh, I just can’t imagine where I would be, where we all would be, without the podcast. Maybe then we would be different people. Who knows?
Jamie: Deep.
Andrew: But thanks again, everybody, for listening, so much. I’m Andrew Sims.
Micah: I’m Micah Tannenbaum.
Laura: I’m Laura Thompson.
Jamie: And I’m Jamie Lawrence.
Andrew: Fantastic. Happy 15 years! Goodbye, everybody.
Laura: Aww.
Jamie: Cheers, everyone. I’ll see you in another 15.
[Everyone laughs]
Jamie: No, no, no. Get me on sooner! I enjoyed this. Take care, everyone.
Listener Voicemails
Caller 1: Hi, MuggleCast. My name is Whitney, and I am from Colorado. I was young when the Harry Potter books came out. I’m still a baby; I’m only 22. So I just remember my biggest moment with Harry Potter was when the cast walked the red carpet for the last time. My older sisters were huge fans, and so was my dad, and so I watched it with them before I had even read the books yet, and I just remember them crying. And that is the biggest memory I have, really, so still today, whenever I see pictures of them from that red carpet, I am in awe of how beautiful and how much emotion they had, because they literally grew up together. So I felt like Harry Potter helped raise me too. So that’s all!
Caller 2: Hey, MuggleCast. This is Jillian. I wanted to share with you my personal favorite Harry Potter fandom memory. Back when Order of the Phoenix came out, my family was going on a two-week vacation to the middle of nowhere, woods of Maine, and my mom told me, “You’re going to get the book when we get back. You can wait, and spend time with family and friends. Absolutely no chance of you getting this book is going to happen.” And my dad said, “Listen to your mother.” And of course, he woke me up at 4:00 a.m. the day it released, and he goes, “Don’t tell anyone; we’re driving to the nearest bookstore”. Took us two hours to get there, and we finally got it, and I was the happiest… well, happiest camper. [laughs] And then I spent the entire next day reading the book straight, much to the dismay of my mother. But it was great, because my dad does not really get Harry Potter – he fell asleep during Goblet of Fire in the movie theater – so it was great that I have this memory of him just being so supportive of Harry Potter, and for my love of reading.
Caller 3: Hi, MuggleCast. Happy 15 year anniversary. Congratulations. You guys do such a fab job of keeping Harry Potter in our spirits, and you just give such interesting insights and theories. I love listening to you guys every week, and my favorite fandom memory is receiving my own collection of books from my brother as a later birthday gift. We used to have to share the book every time they came out for the release; he would always read it first, and yes, he did spoil the ending to Order of the Phoenix and Half-Blood Prince for me. Very cruel. Then I got my own set from him, and this actually marks the tenth year of me reading them all back to back, starting, of course, on July 31. I love all that you guys do; you have been a great comfort when I moved from Scotland to Seattle. It’s been fab to get to listen and be comforted by Harry Potter. Congratulations again. I hope you have a great day, and hopefully speak soon. Bye.
Caller 4: Hi, MuggleCast. This is Robert. Longtime listener, longtime fan. My favorite moment of being a part of the Harry Potter fandom came at the premiere of Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows – Part 2. I worked in a movie theater at the time, and we had this giant rolling concession cart that we would take from theater to theater on big movie nights when we wanted to prevent long lines in the lobby, and me, being a actor and director, felt that it would be best to get into character. So every time I entered a theater, I pushed the cart in and as loud as I could, turned the corner and yelled, “Anything from the trolley?” to thunderous applause of all of the Harry Potter fans decked out in every costume and House color and wand that you could find. As a kind of bonus to this story, I also had seen the movie that morning alone because my theater needed to test the prints, so I got paid to sit in the biggest theater and watch the finale of my favorite franchise. Thank you so much for all that you do for the fandom and for all you do just in general. You being a positive force in the world, especially in the world of Harry Potter, means the world to all of us. Thank you, MuggleCast.
Caller 5: My personal favorite Harry Potter fandom has to be the early days of MuggleCast. We were always trying to guess what would happen in the final book. Thanks for all the hard work, guys.
Caller 6: Hi, MuggleCast. This is Katie, and in response to the 15th anniversary episode prompt: Looking back on my years in deep fandom as a teenager, I grew up in a really rural area, so I didn’t have as much access and wasn’t as close to, I don’t know, big bookstores and things that had lots of events, necessarily. But I remember the years between leading up to the release of Order of the Phoenix, the book, and I think that kind of converged with the Goblet of Fire film – I’m 31, so I would have been 15/16 – were probably my favorite months in fandom. With that came the discovery of all the fanfiction journals and chatrooms and forums and places I shouldn’t have been for my age. And if you guys recall the Live Journal smash sensation PotterPuffs, which I was obsessed with, and I just recently did a little Google image search and found them, and they’re so amazing. So I don’t know if you guys remember PotterPuffs, or for any of the people that didn’t necessarily go to as many in-person events, but remember the beauty that was Live Journal in those years. That’s where my fond memories go. Thank you so much for everything you do, and can’t wait to be on the next chapter with you guys. Thank you for everything and for making quarantine and the pandemic really fun still. Have a great day, bye.
Caller 7: Hi, MuggleCast. This is Jeff. Ten years ago, I started working a night shift job, and it was kind of lonely and kind of quiet, but MuggleCast was always there to keep me company. And then one night, they announced that they were expanding their Chapter by Chapter segment into a show called Alohomora, and I learned to love that show just as much. Since then, I’ve discovered a wealth of Harry Potter podcast shows and a community of people who are interested in talking about them and in coming up with all these great theories, and I’ve never felt more accepted and more at home than I have with all the people who love to listen to MuggleCast, Alohomora, Harry Potter and the Sacred Text, SpeakBeasty, and all the other wonderful podcast shows that give us something to celebrate and something to talk about. Thank you.
Caller 8: Hi MuggleCast, Katie here. My favorite Harry Potter fandom memory is when my Quidditch team traveled to the fifth Quidditch World Cup my freshman year of college. We got there and there were tents set up everywhere, and teams from all over, and it truly felt like the World Cup from the book. My team actually lost every single game that we played, but we were just so grateful that we were there and we just had a great time anyway. I even became closer to a few of my teammates, and we’re still friends today, and we talk a lot. I just really loved Quidditch, and I continued for all four years of my college career, and it just became part of my life. I’ve been listening since Episode 1, and you guys have always been absolutely amazing. Congratulations on 15 years, MuggleCast.
Caller 9: Hey guys, my name is Kelly. I’m calling from Columbus, Ohio. I’m calling because I wanted to talk about one of my favorite MuggleCast memories, and that was the first MuggleCast rap that was written. I listen to that episode quite often, and it still makes me laugh to this day. I will always remember… and sometimes I find myself walking out on the street just going, “M-U-double G, L-E-C-A-S and a T,” and it’s really fun, so I thank you guys so much for keeping me entertained. I’ve been listening to you guys probably since 2007, and Chapter by Chapter was something I definitely missed, and just all the theories that were going out, especially around the time of Deathly Hallows. So thanks, guys, so much for being a part of my wonderful life. Have a great day.