MuggleCast 56 Transcript
Micah [Show Intro with music in background]: Because, “What’s Buggin’ Micah?” gets results, thank you Jo Rowling, 41 of Scotland…
Andrew: This is MuggleCast Episode 56 for September 17th, 2006.
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[speaks rapidly] Hello, everyone, welcome to the show. I’m Andrew Sims.
Ben: [speaks rapidly] I’m Ben Schoen.
Laura: [speaks rapidly] I’m Laura Thompson.
Jamie: [speaks rapidly] I’m Jamie Lawrence.
Micah: [speaks rapidly] I’m Micah Tannenbaum.
Andrew: [still speaking rapidly] We’ve got a great show for you this week. Before we go anywhere else, Micah Tannenbaum is standing by in the MuggleCast newscenter with the past week’s top Harry Potter news stories.
Micah: Last week we reported that the Daily Mirror spoke to JK Rowling at a tea party in Edinburgh, celebrating the release of Driving Lessons. Regarding the progress of Book Seven, the UK tabloid quoted Jo as saying, “I’m up to about 750 pages now.” At the time, we told you it was highly unlikely Jo would give away how many pages she’s written. Now we have confirmation in the form of an update to the the Rubbish Bin at JKRowling.com:
She said: “I haven’t written 750 pages of book seven, and if I had, I’d be very worried, as I’m not close to finishing it yet. I was at the tea party for Driving Lessons, though, so this isn’t pure fiction. The journalist reports that I said that Rupert is ‘absolutely
terrific’ in the film. He is, so that bit shouldn’t be in the rubbish bin at all.”
Speaking of updates, clearly thanks to my rant on last week’s show, JK Rowling has added a new diary, news, and Extra Stuff entry to her official site. In her diary, she apologizes for the lack of updates recently and talks about her experience in New York for “An Evening with Harry, Carrie and Garp.”
Also, a NAQ (Never Asked Question) was added to the Extra Stuff Section: Why did Dumbledore have James’ invisibility cloak at the time of James’ death, given that Dumbledore could make himself invisible without a cloak? We discuss that later in the show.
The National Library of Scotland has obtained a $3.35 million grant in order to establish a “digital repository” to include blogs, journals, and e-mails written by leading Scots – JK Rowling among them. The digital works exhibited will all be of cultural significance and are set to be unveiled in 2008.
And finally, Bloomsbury will re-release 21 books to celebrate their 21st birthday, including Harry Potter and the Philosopher’s Stone. According to Publishing News “All the titles will feature a short question-and-answer with the authors,
an introduction by fellow writers, and a reading guide.” No word yet on what Jo may include.
That’s all the news for this September 17th, 2006 edition of MuggleCast. Back to the show.
PO Box Update
Andrew: Oooooookaaaaaaaaaay. Thank you, Micah.
Micah: Oh, I’m here this week. Sorry.
Andrew: Yeah, you are here.
Jamie: So say…
Micah: You’re welcome.
Jamie: …”you’re welcome.” [laughs]
Andrew: Micah, we are so proud of you this week. I speak for the Harry Potter community…
Laura: [applauds] Yay!
Andrew:…when I say we are so proud of you this week.
Micah: What’d I do?
Andrew: But we’ll get to that in a minute.
Jamie: I think we’re proud and excited, to be fair.
Andrew: We are.
Jamie: We are excited, as well.
Andrew: [unintelligible] great. Let’s have a few announcements first. Do not forget, vote for us on Podcast Alley. And a P.O. Box update, Ben.
Ben: Oh my gosh!
Andrew: You have a PO Box update for us?
Ben: Oh, geez. We have more letters than you can imagine.
Ben: Thanks to, who is this here? Thanks to Harley Hoover from Peninsula, Ohio for sending us pickles. Paper pickles with each of our names on them. That’s very, very kind of you.
Laura: Awww. How cute.
Ben: We got some letters here from Alexis…
Andrew: Hold on, wait a second, wait a second, wait a second.
Andrew: [takes deep breath] Pickle, pickle, pickle, pickle, pickle, pickle, pickle, pickle…[chokes on his words] All right. Go ahead.
Ben: We have letters here from Alexis from Liz Jaffe – Joffe. This person, I don’t know. They are from Oklahoma, but that’s all I know about them. Ummm, thanks to…
Jamie: Well that completely narrows it down.
Ben: …Miss Rownack Choudhury for sending me a Subway gift card. Thanks to Claire Fuller for sending in a letter. Someone else made pickle hats for us.
Andrew: Ooo. Are you going to bring all this pickle stuff?
Jamie: No, he’s going to keep it to himself.
Ben: Memorabilia? Merchandise?
Ben: Yeah, right. [shuffles papers]
[Laura and Andrew laugh]
Ben: Thanks to Leslie McGee for sending us a CD, I think this is? Yeah, a CD. Then, the pickle hats came from Jordana from Illinois.
Ben: Like, these are hats like you wear on your head. Like, they’re paper hats. They’re kind of neat.
Andrew: Oh, cool.
Ben: Yeah, and then another letter came from Alex from New Hampshire.. So, yeah, there’s your PO Box update.
Jamie: Are you bringing these to California, Ben? Really? Are you bringing them?
Ben: Huh? The pickle hats? You really want your pickle hat?
Jamie: Of course I want my pickle hat!
Ben: I guess.
Announcements: Leaky Mug LIVE in California
Andrew: Leaky Mug, live in California September 28th. It’s going to be a fabulous…
Jamie: A blast, a blast. It’s going to be a blast.
Andrew: Yeah. A big event. Don’t forget to RSVP on LeakyMug.com. We got about 300…
Jamie: What’s RSP… Sorry, what does RSVP stand for?
Ben: Resendez s’il vous plait.
Jamie: Repondez s’il vous plait. Not bad, Ben. You get 8 out of 10 for effort.
Andrew: We have like 300 to 400 RSVPs already, so it’s going to be a big event. And make sure you get there early, because Borders is limiting it to 400 people, and it’s going to be a lot of fun. So… And also, join the Facebook event group, because cool people do that.
Jamie: Just for the fun of it. Just for the fun of it.
Listener Rebuttal: Harry Potter and Wicca
Andrew: Listener Rebuttals this week – Jessica, 23, from Ohio has a rebuttal about the “Gimme a Butterbeer” from Episode 55.
Ben: Oh, she wants to have a go, does she?
Andrew: A comment was made, I’m not sure by who, about how the Harry
Potter books do not convert the readers to Wicca. While I completely agree
that Harry Potter does not encourage people to alter their religious beliefs in any way, I felt compelled to point out that HP does not relate to Wicca in any way. While it’s true that followers of Wicca are sometimes referred to as “witches,” Wicca is a valid religion that has absolutely nothing to do with things like flying broomsticks and magic wands. Just wanted to make that distinction. Love your show. Keep up the good work.
Laura: Yeah, it’s important to say that.
Jamie: It’s true. It’s true. It’s true, yeah.
Laura: Wicca is not an evil religion at all.
Jamie: Yeah, but, I can’t really remember it, but weren’t you just
pointing out that it’s a religion and you should really separate Harry
Potter and religion completely? Because, you know, once you start mixing
them, you just get into all the stuff about evil and stuff like
Jamie: It’s just like… I just think it should be kept completely separate,
you know. It’s a book series.
Laura: Well, yeah.
Ben: Fo’ sho’.
Jamie: Fo’ sho’, man. But, just check on, “Wiccapedia” and type in, “Harry
Listener Rebuttal: Dumbledore’s and Voldemort’s Power
Jamie: Okay, our second one is from Elenna, who is 16, from
east L.A. – hope you’ll be coming to the podcast – and the subject is, “Dumbledore and Voldemort’s Power.”
Regarding your discussion about if Dumbledore and Voldemort are just generally more powerful than the rest of the…
And I can’t read it because my AIM has just popped up. Somebody has signed off. [laughs]
Jamie: …are just generally more powerful than
the rest of the world, and why that is. Isn’t it possible they’re just
equivalent to what geniuses are in the Muggle world, but with magical
ability? Like, there are some people who are just regular, some who are
smart, and some who are super intelligent, or geniuses. The same can go for
the magical world. Though people can’t be more magical than others, they can possess different levels of talent in magic, as in the Muggle world with intelligence. This talent possibly follows the same laws as intelligence does with the Nature/Nurture theories. Great show. Peace out.
So, I guess she’s kind of saying that Voldemort and Dumbledore are the Einsteins of the magical world. Or the Leonardo DaVincis or something.
Jamie: I think that’s pretty true.
Listener Rebuttal: Harry Potter vs. Star Wars
Andrew: Erica, 24, of Chicago writes about Harry Potter and the Star Wars
connection that Jamie brought up last week.
Jamie only mentioned this briefly, but I think it was genius to make a connection between the levels of power in HP characters and the main players in Star Wars…
Ben: That’s not on MuggleNet or anything. He thought of that all by himself first. [laughs]
Jamie: Okay, okay. Wait a minute. Okay, Ben…
[Andrew and Ben laugh]
Jamie: Okay, I don’t think I did… I didn’t… I did think of that myself. I didn’t get it off the site.
Andrew: Dumbledore is the equivalent of Obi-Wan Kenobi, a learned Master, a combination of great skill and experience and age. I’d pick him vs. Yoda, because Vader was Obi-Wan’s student. Voldemort is the equivalent of Darth Vader, an orphaned child prodigy with exceptional natural ability turned “less than human evil lord,” who passes on some of his power to the one who will have to defeat him. Harry is definitely Luke Skywalker. He inherited some exceptional abilities by being marked by Voldemort. So, if we follow the pattern in Harry Potter, the Masters of the Force, whether good or evil, are light years away, ahead of the rest of the Jedi in their ability. Luke never became a Jedi Master, and was able to defeat Vader in the same way that Harry, while he is more skilled or powerful than average wizards his age, does not have to become as powerful as Voldemort to defeat him. He only has to skillfully use what he knows. And even though there are some similarities, please don’t think I would ever suggest that Voldemort and Harry will share a “Luke, I am your father” moment. But maybe that would be a Crackpot Theory.
Jamie: Yeah. Next week’s one for Eric. But like… It could be like, you
know, she says it’s just one thing that Harry’s got to tap into. Like love,
you know. I mean, it could be that love isn’t especially powerful, but it’s
just the one thing that Voldemort can’t stand, and that one thing is, you
know, his weakness, and he just has to tap into that power or something and
use that against him.
Listener Rebuttal: Did Dumbledore know Wormtail was the Potters’ Secret-Keeper?
Jamie: This is from Carolyn, 19, from Connecticut:
In Episode 55, you were discussing Dumbledore and Voldemort’s magical powers. You mentioned that you thought that Dumbledore cast the Fidelius Charm on the Potters because it is described as immensely complex magic. However, we knew that Dumbledore gave evidence that Sirius was the Potters’ Secret-Keeper, and if Dumbledore was the one that cast the charm, wouldn’t he know that Wormtable, sorry, Wormtail was the Secret-Keeper? Love the show. Carolyn.
Laura: Yeah, she’s right. [laughs]
Jamie: Yeah, she’s right.
Andrew: We got a lot of rebuttals like that. So, that’s more of a
Jamie: So, to sum things up, we were wrong. Sorry, I was wrong.
Laura: Good job, guys.
Andrew: You were wrong. [laughs]
Jamie: I was wrong, yeah. Oh, come on. Please let the blame around slightly.
Laura: I wasn’t there, so you can’t blame me.
Jamie: We were wrong. We were wrong.
Ben: I wasn’t there, either, so I think…
Jamie: Okay, both of you were wrong.
Andrew: It was just me, Ben, and Eric. Or no, me, Jamie, and Eric, yeah.
Ben: Let’s blame Eric because he’s not here to defend himself.
Jamie: Yeah, yeah.
Andrew:Yeah, that’s good. I like that. [laughs]
Jamie: It was clearly that Sirius was the Potters’ Secret-Keeper. I mean… I mean… Okay, I screwed up again. Whatever Carolyn says.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: Okay, well that wraps up listener rebuttals.
Ben: [sings] Sweet Caroline. [speaks] Sorry. [laughs]
Micah Gets Results
Andrew: Well, last week on Episode 55 we premiered a brand new segment: “What’s Buggin Micah?” Coincidentally, Micah, this is pure coincidence, JK Rowling on Thursday, September 13 – oh no, Wednesday, September 13th – updated her website with lots of updates just a mere, a mere four days after, “What’s Buggin Micah,” premiered, where Micah flipped out on JK Rowling for not updating her website.
Laura: And you think this is a coincidence, Andrew?
Andrew: I’m just kidding. I just didn’t want to be modest.
Andrew: No, I just wanted to be modest. [laughs]
Ben: I don’t know.
Andrew: Micah, what do you think about this? Are you convinced?
Ben: It was long due. It was due. So, I don’t know.
Andrew: Let’s just pretend like it was Micah and that Jo does listen to the show.
Ben: Well here, we have a little test here. Let’s have Micah…
Jamie: Ask for a million pounds.
Ben: …gripe about the title and see if it… [laughs]
Andrew: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Andrew: Go ahead, Micah. Go for it.
Jamie: Micah, say…
Micah: [laughs] What do you want me to do?
Jamie: Just say…
Andrew: Say, “Micah.” I mean say, “Jo, give us the title.”
Jamie: Jo, she never gives – yeah, yeah.
Andrew: [laughs] Do it, do it.
Jamie: I bet she gets it in the next couple of days.
Andrew: [laughs] Yeah.
Micah: Okay, okay.
Jamie: That’d be a pretty big coincidence.
Andrew: Wait, wait, wait. Hold on, wait, wait.
Jamie: You’ve got to mean it from the heart, though.
What’s Buggin’ Micah?
Andrew: Now, it’s time for the second installment of “What’s Buggin’ Micah?” Micah, go.
Micah: No. [laughs]
Jamie: Micah, mean it from the heart.
Micah: There’s nothing bugging me right now, though.
Andrew: No, this is bugging you.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: You told me about it earlier. Go ahead.
Micah: Jo, you must reveal the title of Book Seven by Halloween.
Andrew: [laughs] Okay. [laughs]
Ben: You heard it here, folks.
Jamie: Did that come from the heart Micah, or are you just…?
Andrew: Well, it’s funny, though. On the news post we made on MuggleNet.com, if you look through the comments [laughs] a lot of people say… [laughs]
Micah: They all thought it was my doing.
Andrew: Yeah. [laughs] Like this one: “Hey, Micah, that rant of yours worked!” [laughs] It was pretty funny. Another one says, “Finally, she must have listened to MuggleCast.” [laughs] So, coincidence? Probably really good timing, yes. [laughs]
Jamie: Yeah come on, very good timing, though. Very good timing.
Andrew: However, of course Jo listens. You know, this is her thing. She wants to hear us discuss.
Jamie: Didn’t she tell us that [laughs] when she goes jogging in the morning she…
Andrew:Plugs her iPod in?
Jamie: Plugs her iPod in, yeah, and just turns the show on.
Andrew: Actually, guys, I think that she actually dropped us a hint on her site.
Ben: What’d she do?
Andrew: Yeah. [laughs] If you go on, you know, JKRowling.com, you look at her diary. She says sorry five times. How many letters are in Micah’s first name?
Jamie: 1, 2, 3…
Andrew: [laughs] How many times did she say sorry?
Andrew: Five, huh? See the connection?
Jamie: Oh, god.
Andrew: Yeah, okay. [laughs]
Laura: We’ve been doing this way too long, Andrew.
Andrew: She dropped a hint.
Andrew: There you go.
Jamie: That’s a pretty big hint.
Andrew: It is.
Jamie: An anvil-sized one.
Andrew: I tried finding other ones but I couldn’t. That was the best one.
[Andrew and Micah laugh]
Andrew: So anyway, that was very good and a lot of people liked that segment last week, Micah.
Micah: They did.
Jamie: Should we change it?
Andrew: So, good work. “What’s Buggin’ Micah?” gets results.
Jamie: Should we change the “Chuck Norris/Dumbledore Quotes” to “Micah Quotes” now, because he’s pretty…
Andrew: Yeah, he’s pretty powerful. [laughs]
Main Discussion: Why did Dumbledore have James’ Invisibility Cloak?
Andrew: So anyway, this leads us into our main discussion this week, which is about an update that Jo made on her site. Jamie.
Jamie: Okay, this is taken straight from her site:
“Why did Dumbledore have James’ Invisibility Cloak at the time of James’ death? Given that Dumbledore could make himself invisible anyway, does he really need it? Prior to posting this I had a quick look online and realized that some fans had been speculating about this question.”
That’s Jo by the way, not me.
[Andrew, Ben, and Jamie laugh]
Jamie: “However, nobody has ever asked me about it, and they really should have done. Just to allay the fears of the justifiably suspicious, this isn’t what we in the know call a Mark Evans situation.”
As in that, you know, we think it’s massive but it’s not.
“There is a significant, even crucial, answer to this question.”
So, our main discussion this week is: Why did Dumbledore have James’ Invisibility Cloak on him at the time of James’ death? Go.
Ben: Oh geez. That’s nothing but pure conjecture.
Was Dumbledore Unable to be Invisible at that time?
Jamie: Our questions for this, our first one is, number one: Is this simply that Dumbledore couldn’t make himself invisible at this time? Some people forget that Dumbledore was not ridiculously powerful from birth. Although it seems like he has always been one step ahead (e.g. when Professor Tofty said that during his N.E.W.T. examinations he could do things with a wand that, you know, nobody had ever seen before).
[Micah and Ben laugh]
Jamie: Magical abilities are clearly a product of age and experience. [laughs] What’s so funny about that?
Laura: You guys are so gross! You guys are so perverted!
Andrew: Grow up! Grow up. Be mature. God!
Jamie: Do you think that’s the case?
Andrew: I don’t think so because this was only 12, 13, however many years it was prior, and it’s not like Dumbledore developed all his skills in that – not 12 to 13 – 15, 16 years.
Jamie: How do you know, Andrew? How do you know?
Andrew: Because he was the Headmaster of Hogwarts!
Jamie: But how do you know, Andrew?
Andrew: Because he was there after Harry died and…
Laura: [laughs] Harry didn’t die!
Andrew: [laughs] I mean, I mean, I mean… Oh, really? Oh, shoot.
Jamie: Digging a grave here, Andrew. It’s getting bigger and bigger.
Andrew: I mean James and Lily died. James and Lily died.
Jamie: I guess so. You’re still wrong.
Andrew: No, I’m not wrong.
Jamie: Are you? Are you? What do people think?
Laura: No, I think Dumbledore was able to become invisible on his own. I don’t think he would’ve…
Jamie: I’m just going to act as a…
Ben: Yeah, okay. JK Rowling said it’s significant. What significance would that hold? Just that he didn’t know how to become invisible on his own then.
Laura: Yeah, I don’t think that would hold any great key to the series.
Ben: So, we’ve established Andrew’s wrong once again. But… [laughs]
Andrew: No. [laughs]
Ben: …anybody have any bright ideas?
Andrew: No, we didn’t!
Laura: No, I think we just established that Andrew was right. [laughs]
Andrew: I’m just saying Dumbledore didn’t develop all his skills after Harry’s birth. He had them before Harry’s birth.
Laura: Yeah, so he…
Andrew: He’s an old guy.
Jamie: How do you know that? Okay, he is an old guy, but he could just…
Andrew: I don’t know that, but he was the Headmaster of Hogwarts.
Jamie: But he could have read…
Laura: Well, that doesn’t really…
Jamie: …the book, “Becoming Invisible Without a Cloak,” just in those 15 years. You don’t know that he learned…
Laura: Yeah, but didn’t Dumbledore tell Harry whenever he was looking into the Mirror of Erised that, “I have my own ways of becoming invisible”?
Jamie: Oh yeah, he did. Yeah, but that’s after. That’s a long way after…
Laura: Yeah, but it just seems like the way he talks about it…
Jamie: It does, it does. It does.
Laura: …he’s been doing it for awhile and hoes accomplished at it.
Micah: So, he has his own ways of becoming invisible. He puts the cloak on. That’s his way of becoming invisible.
Jamie: [laughs] Yeah.
Andrew: Yeah [laughs]
Jamie: He sews it into his skin and he can turn it on and off by just thinking it or something.
Did James Purposely Give Away The Cloak?
Jamie: Let’s go into our second question: Did James purposely give the cloak to Dumbledore? Perhaps he knew that Dumbledore would give it to Harry or that his death was imminent. Ben, what do you think?
Ben: I think of course James intentionally gave it to Dumbledore. I don’t think that Dumbledore would steal it from him. So…
Jamie: Well, I didn’t mean that. I meant if he found it after his death or something.
Ben: Well, in the note that Dumbledore left to Harry he said that, “Your father left this with me shortly before he died,” right? Isn’t that what it said?
Jamie: That is very true, yeah. Yeah.
Ben: So, I don’t know why he would give it to Dumbledore.
Laura: Well, we’ve talked about this before and I think the consensus we came to on that episode was that he left it to Dumbledore for…
Jamie: We don’t come to consensuses. We don’t come to consensuses. [laughs]
Laura: Well, sometimes we do. Rarely, rarely we do and in this case…
Laura: …we decided that James left the cloak with Dumbledore because he knew that Dumbledore would give it to Harry. But it seems like there’s got to be something a little bit more prominent going on there, seeing as it’s a crucial clue.
Jamie: Yeah, that’s true.
Laura: Or bit of information.
Where Was The Cloak After The Potters Died?
Jamie: Well, let’s go onto the third question, which is kind of redundant now.
Jamie: if he didn’t purposely give it to him, where was the cloak after the death of the Potters?
[Pause of silence]
Laura: With Dumbledore because he said he left it… [laughs]
Did Dumbledore Get The Cloak in Godric’s Hollow?
Jamie: Okay, okay fair enough. [laughs] Question four. Question four: Did Dumbledore go to Godric’s Hollow to get the cloak?
Laura: Well, it all depends on whether James gave it to Dumbledore before or after the Fidelius Charm was performed, because obviously Dumbledore didn’t do it. So…
Jamie: But how far – sorry.
Laura: If Dumbledore didn’t perform the charm and he wasn’t the Secret-Keeper he couldn’t find the Potters, so James would have had to given it to him prior to going into hiding.
Jamie: That is true, but how long before they died was the charm performed? Do we know?
Laura: Well, only a couple of weeks.
Laura: They said that within two weeks of it being performed Voldemort found them and killed them.
Laura: But obviously we know it had to have been sometime in that year that Harry was born, because he was only a year old whenever Voldemort attacked them.
Jamie: Yeah. Yeah.
Laura: So. it couldn’t have been that far in advance.
Jamie: Do you think he gave it to him with all of his other possessions? Or do you think he sort of sat them down and said, “I’m giving you this cloak because,” you know, “because it’s special and you need to do something specific with it.: I think it could be that one.
Ben: Well, I don’t think he intended to leave it with Harry because…
Laura: Why not?
Ben: …I don’t think that would’ve been his intentions.
Jamie: Well, because Dumbledore just said, “It is time that it is returned to you,” didn’t he? He didn’t specifically say, “Your father gave this to me to leave you.”
Ben: Right, because… But, no, why would James predict that if they were going to be killed that his son would make it through?
Jamie: Oh yeah.
Laura: Because no parent ever wants to imagine that their child’s going to die. They are going to want to leave options…
Jamie: He brings up a fair point though, doesn’t he?
Laura: …just in case their kid lives.
Jamie: He brings up a fair point, that, I mean…
Laura: Yeah, but do you know any parent that’s going to say, “Well, you’re absolutely going to die, so there’s no point in making plans for you…”
Jamie: Yes, yes.
Laura: “…because you’re going to be dead.” [laughs]
Ben: Well, they’re not necessarily making plans. I mean….
Andrew: Why would James give it over in the first place? Why does he have to assume that he’s going to be the one dying?
Jamie: No, no, no, but, the odds there… He thinks if Voldemort… He didn’t realize that Lily’s love was in place, so he thought that, “If Voldemort can kill me, who you know, is clearly a pretty advanced wizard, he isn’t going to have any trouble with a small baby boy.” So, perhaps he gave it to him for, you know… Maybe it is a Horcrux, Ben.
Ben: Well, why… Okay, if you think about it… What I’m trying to say is, perhaps
James gave Dumbledore the cloak for a reason other than to give to Harry
Laura: To give to Harry.
Ben: …for his own personal use.
Jamie: No he did, Of course he did. Because he couldn’t have envisioned that
Harry would – was going to live, you know, even though in his soul, in his
heart he must have absolutely begged him to live he had to think about. You
Ben: I mean, of course, who wants their kid to die?
Jamie: Yeah and, but, or perhaps he gave it to Dumbledore to cover Harry. I
Andrew: Cover Harry? With the cloak?
Jamie: Yeah, yeah and take him somewhere or something. Ben…
[Andrew, Ben and Laura laugh]
Jamie: I doubt…
Ben: That’s enormously significant in Book Seven.
Ben: That’s enormously significant in Book Seven.
Jamie: I’d laugh if it was Ben, because I would never let you live that
Properties of the Invisibility Cloak
Andrew: I just don’t see how the cloak could unless there’s something more
to the cloak and no don’t say Horcrux.
Micah: Well, could he use the cloak to go through the veil.
Laura: I don’t think so.
Andrew: What would the cloak do?
Ben: I don’t know just throwing out a crazy theory.
Jamie: Because the veil wouldn’t think that anyone was there.
Andrew: Well perhaps, perhaps… Okay, hold on, perhaps there are some
properties to the invisibility cloak that we don’t know about. Perhaps… Like what I’m trying to say, perhaps…
Laura: Well, yeah.
Ben: …it does more than make you invisible. Like there’s something else
that it does for you.
Jamie: Like what?
Ben: That’s the thing, I don’t know.
Laura: Well, we know that they’re really rare, so there’s got to be
something special about it other than invisibility.
Jamie: I’ll give you ten points if you can tell me which creature you can
spin hair from to turn into invisibility cloaks.
Jamie: It begins with a “D.”
Jamie: Very good, very good.
Jamie: You get ten points. It’s pointless really.
Jamie: But you do win ten points.
Ben: It’s like Whose Line is it Anyway.
Laura: Beat me at a trivia contest next time.
Andrew: Yeah. [laughs] Okay well now I want to look this animal up and see
if there’s anything special. Like you would think that if there is going to
be some amazing revelation about the invisibility cloak there would have
been some foreshadowing in the books already. Like-
Ben: Well there could be they just haven’t recognized it.
Andrew: Harry noticed that when he wore the cloak a spell deflected off of
Ben: I know, I know but she’s not going to do that. She is going to make
subtle things. They would be subtle insinuations.
Andrew: I know. I know it would be in passing.
Laura: Yeah, like remember… Do you remember the way – do you remember the
way it was described, like it felt light as air yet when it, like flowed
over his fingers it felt like water. He said it felt like liquid air, so
clearly there’s something just really bizarre about this thing, because it’s
not just fabric.
Jamie: It makes you invisible, it’s pretty bizarre already.
Laura: Yeah and she just, the way she described it kind of played it up to
be something even more special.
Jamie: Yeah. Oh, I think it is more special, but…
Cloak Used For The Order?
Andrew: Well that was sort of… That was getting somewhere it did seem like.
What if Harry or what if James had given it to Dumbledore, for Dumbledore
to give it to an Order member, because maybe James would have thought that
an order member had…
Andrew: …a more important use for it.
Jamie: That’s the very sort of crucial answer though, that’s pretty general.
Laura: But why wouldn’t James give it to that order member then.
Andrew: Because an order member might have needed a – might have had a
better reason to use it than James did.
Laura: Yeah, but why wouldn’t. No, I’m saying is…
Jamie: Why wouldn’t Dumbledore have given it to her?
Laura: …if James wanted to give it to an order member why wouldn’t James have given it to them?
Andrew: Because maybe, depending on the situation, who knows what was going
on then with the Order, when all that was happening. They could’ve been all
spread out across all of England or whatever. Maybe James just couldn’t
directly deliver it to him.
Laura: They wouldn’t need to they had magic.
Andrew: And Dumbledore was going to see him for coffee.
Laura: They have owls.
Ben: No, what I think we are missing here is that he…
Andrew: That’s not safe though.
Ben: I think the reason that why James gave it to Dumbledore is the thing
that is significant.
Ben: Not what the cloak is used for.
Jamie: Yeah, definitely. Yeah, but it could be like he gave to him because it was needed somewhere.
Ben: I’m not saying that we should expect, oh in Book Seven Ginny’s going to get
alive using the invisibility cloak.
Jamie: Yeah, yeah okay. How rare are they? Because he could have just given
it to him. Because, you know, it’s a rare thing. He’s go to, you know? It’s
something valuable, which is clearly going to come in useful at some point.
Andrew: It seems strange, didn’t Moody have two of them?
Laura: Yeah, he did.
Jamie: Yeah. But one was a bad one, wasn’t it?
Laura: But then he had all sorts of, he had all sorts of Dark Arts things
that no one else had.
Andrew: Yeah, he just collects them.
Differences in Invisibility Cloaks
Ben: Could be a possibility that the invisibility cloak is – that particular
one – is enchanted somehow because, even though they’re rare I don’t think
they all share the same properties.
Jamie: It’s a two-way invisibility cloak. He can use it to talk to James
from beyond the grave.
Laura: Is it possible – we know that wands have different powers depending
on what kind of animal their magical core came from. So, say the demiguise
that Harry’s cloak was woven from had some sort of weird power. Would that
make it more unique?
Laura: Than the others?
Jo Is Messing With Us
Micah: I think she just likes messing around with us. That’s what I think. She
put this out there – if you think about it, what did she really tell us on
the site? See now you’re going to get me angry again.
[Andrew, Ben, and Laura laugh]
Micah: She didn’t tell us anything of significance. Nothing on that site was
of any significance.
Laura: Yes, because she wants us to speculate about it. She’s trying to bring
attention to it.
Laura: She’s trying to bring attention to it.
Andrew: She’s got to keep the fandom going, [laughs] she realizes that this book is taking a while.
Jamie: Yeah, because Harry Potter’s dying, isn’t it?
[Ben and Andrew laugh]
Andrew: It is!
Jamie: And she has got to restart it.
Andrew: No. I’m saying…
Ben: Yeah, I bet she doesn’t have enough money so she needs more people.
Andrew: [laughing] No! What I’m saying is she likes to see the community active like this, so she throws this stuff out there every once in a while to get everyone going and get everyone excited.
Micah: Watch. It was just a birthday present. That’s all it’s going to turn out to be.
Jamie: Maybe, maybe.
Ben: Oh yeah, the most significant birthday present in – yeah.
Laura: How would that be significant? [laughs]
Andrew: Well yeah, that’s the thing. She says it’s not another Mark Evans situation.
Jamie: Yeah, exactly.
Where Did James Get The Cloak?
Laura: Well, where do you think James got the cloak from in the first place? Do you think it was a family heirloom or…
Ben: Wasn’t it? Or do we know? I’ve read too much fan fiction, I’ve confused the heck out of myself.
Laura: I don’t know if it was ever said. Yeah.
[Laura and Jamie laugh]
Laura: I think a lot of people have assumed that it’s a family heirloom, but I’m not sure that it was ever specified that it was.
Jamie: I don’t think you can go out and buy one can you, though? I mean, can you just go out and buy them?
Laura: Well yeah, that is why it would make sense that it was something passed down through the family.
Jamie: Yeah, well, exactly. Are they rare in that you see them in shops, but their few and far between and very expensive?
Laura: I don’t think we’ve ever seen one in a shop. You would think if you could get one you could get it in Knockturn Alley, but I don’t think we’ve ever seen one there.
Jamie: Yeah, yeah, yeah, but they aren’t evil are they?
Ben: Well of course they have to be expensive, or otherwise everyone would have them.
Jamie: No, because they could be rare as in…
Laura: You can’t even buy them, it’s not something you can really buy.
Jamie: …I don’t know, some type of animal. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Ben: But guys, if they are going to be rare than they would be very expensive to acquire one.
Jamie: No, because they could command high prices, but you just can’t buy them.
Laura: What if it’s something that you have to get because of something you do? For instance, Moody has it because he’s an Auror or he was an Auror. What if – I mean we don’t know much about Lily’s and James’ occupations. I’ve always kind of wondered what Lily’s was, because Jo said that James didn’t really need to have any kind of high-paying job because he had plenty of gold. So I was always under the assumption that Lily did something a little more important, and maybe it was hers.
Well what do you guys think it was that – assuming that invisibility cloaks are given out because of an important job, do you think that maybe Lily did something important with the Ministry? Like maybe she was an Unspeakable in the Department of Mysteries?
Jamie: Who? Lily? Oh.
Jamie: A Bode or a Croaker? I don’t know.
[Jamie, Laura, and Ben laugh]
Andrew: But how would she have inherited the cloak? You were saying that she had a more respectable job than James did.
Laura: Well I’m saying…
Jamie: [laughs] What did James do?
Laura: The only people we’ve ever seen in… Well, I think the only other person we’ve seen in the books who has a cloak is Moody, and he’s an Auror. So, isn’t it pretty safe to assume that you only get those cloaks based on some kind of important occupation?
Jamie: Could be, yeah.
Jamie: No, I think it’s based on need though more than how important your job is. Aurors are trained in stealth and stuff.
Laura: Well obviously if you’re doing something… If you’re an Auror or you’re an Unspeakable you’re obviously going to need forms of protection. An invisibility cloak could offer some form of protection.
Jamie: Yeah, yeah. That is true. Yeah.
Andrew: But then it got in James’ hands, how? Lily just handed it over to him? Wouldn’t she want to keep that for herself as sort of like a…
Laura: Well no, because once Voldemort is after you, you’re screwed. It doesn’t matter.
Andrew: But you would still want to keep it.
Laura: Yeah, but what if there was some greater cause as to why Dumbledore needed it? That’s the thing. I think that Lily would sacrifice that.
Micah: I’m just looking at the way that she worded the question, because she never words things the wrong way; and she says “at the time of James’ death.” She doesn’t bring up Lily, she specifically refers to James. I don’t know. It’s almost like she’s saying why did he have it at that exact moment, so you almost think that he was there when it happened.
Ben: Whoa, whoa. Micah Tannenbaum, I love you.
[Laura, Andrew, Jamie, and Micah laugh]
Ben: But seriously though. It’s important that… Okay at the time of James’ death, wouldn’t she say the Potters’ death? You know what I’m saying?
Andrew: Yeah. That’s how you see it everywhere else referred to it.
Laura: I don’t think Lily’s alive if that’s what you’re trying to say. [laughs]
Micah: No, I’m not.
Was Dumbledore in Godric’s Hollow?
Ben: Well, do you think it could be possible that Dumbledore was in Godric’s Hollow that night?
Laura: That’s… I’ve been kind of wondering about that.
Ben: No, but if you think… Would he stand idly by and watch them be killed though?
Laura: I don’t know.
Micah: Like he’s holding the invisibility cloak in one hand [Laura and Micah laugh] with a weird expression on his face. Oops.
Laura: Well, hey, that… There’s still something about that odd twinkle to Dumbledore’s eye at the end of Goblet of Fire when he found out that Voldemort had Harry’s blood. What if he’s evil?
Micah: Where’s Rachel?
Jamie: What if he was evil, he was.
[Laura and Micah laugh]
Micah: No, but also the other thing that kind of debunks the Lily idea is that she refers to it as James’ invisibility cloak.
Laura: Yeah. I see those.
Ben: Yeah, that too. If it was Lily’s invisibility cloak, why would James give it to Dumbledore? You know?
Andrew: Well, Lily could have told him to give it.
Laura: Lily told him.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: Do you want to…
Ben: I know, but if it was something that was her personal possession.
Micah: So he was whipped? Is that what you’re saying?
Micah: He just did everything that Lily told him to do.
Laura: Yeah, just like I think Harry’s whipped by Ginny, so…
Jamie: Oh yeah, he is.
Jamie: She sorts him out, she sorts him out.
Theory From CoS Forums
Andrew: Do you want to read a theory off of CoS Forums? Maybe get this going a little bit more? This goes a little deeper, further than what we’ve been saying. This was posted on CoS forums by Eli C, a first year. He quotes Sorcerer’s Stone, “Your father left this in my possession before he died, it is time it was returned to you, use it well, a very merry Christmas to you.” And Eli says, “The cloak was probably left unintentionally with Dumbledore by James. I say this because Dumbledore did not say, ‘He gave this to me to use it for whatever purpose.’ It said James mistakenly left it, thus the, ‘he left it in my possession.’ We can theorize that Dumbledore did not have it intentionally and there is a strong possibility that the cloak was being used by a member of the Order. My thought is that it was James. Keep reading for more on this. Dumbledore only had it in his possession for a short time when the Potters were killed. Otherwise, such an important object of protection would have been returned quickly, especially if they were in danger. Remember that although Dumbledore is at school with Harry, Dumbledore asked Harry to keep the cloak with him at all times.
Jamie: Ooh, yes. But, if that’s the case, then…
Laura: But how do you forget an invisibility cloak though?
Andrew: Well, hold on, there’s more. “I think James was secretly tailing Snape under the cloak the night of the Prophecy. He followed Snape, overheard the conversation between Snape and Lord Voldemort, in which Voldemort chooses Harry as the One. Snape, realizing what he’s done, turns to Dumbledore, and at some point James reveals himself either while Snape is with Dumbledore or right after he leaves. Remember that Snape knows that Harry and James’ cloaks are one in the same. So, it is probable that James revealed himself while Snape was with Dumbledore in conversation. During this conversation or possibly heated discussion James sets down the cloak on a chair, discusses things with Dumbledore and Snape rushes off to Godric’s Hollow and his family to keep safe. Dumbledore finds Sirius to be the Secret-Keeper, but then they choose Wormtail, cast the Secret-Keeper charm and the next day or so, James and Lily are killed. Snape did not know who the Secret-Keeper for the Potters was and therefore did not know that they would be killed. Besides, Death Eaters do not know each other, per se. See Book Four, I believe. There’s more, but… [laughs]
Jamie: Do you think that if he could do that, I mean, if I had to be invisible, I’d want a way that Dumbledore chooses, rather than a cloak, because it’s a crude way of remaining invisible. You know, if there’s a strong wind…
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Jamie: It flaps up from the bottom then you’re going to see your feet, or, you know, it’s just seems… It is very crude. Or if you trip over and it flies off.
Andrew: Or footsteps. [laughs] You can hear footsteps, too. It’s not…
Andrew: It’s not the same as…
Jamie: Yeah, but, yeah. It just seems very crude. But it’s an interesting theory, though.
Ben: Well, hold on. Do you think that that’s a case that Dumbledore needed to use the invisibility cloak?
Ben: Because, perhaps… Oh, never mind.
Laura: No, say it, Ben.
Ben: Well, I was just going to say maybe Dumbledore’s invisibility that he can do by himself – never mind.
Andrew: Just say it.
Andrew: Just say it. No theory is safe.
Ben: Yeah, I know. I’m just saying that [laughs] the invisibility cloak has to have something special about it for Dumbledore to use it over his own invisibility. There.
Jamie: Yeah, yeah.
Ben: Thank me, Captain Obvious.
Andrew: If you’re wondering why there’s a lack of more discussion, that’s because we’re recording this on the same day that the news broke. So, we were a little tight for time for planning more of a thought-out discussion.
Jamie: We’re also quite tired.
Andrew: We are quite tired. It’s 9:21 here on the East Coast.
Jamie: Oh, well, you know…
Laura: It’s 9:13, you’re so full of crap.
Andrew: It’s 9:22, Laura! [in nerdy voice] My Mac is synced with the U.S. government time zones, it can’t be wrong.
Andrew: Is everyone slow in Georgia?
[Laura and Micah laugh]
Laura: Yes, actually, it’s funny that you should ask.
Andrew: But if you have your own theories, feel free to send them in and we’ll probably discuss this more next week on – but shoot, we’re recording early. Listen to the show on Sunday, get them in by Sunday night. We’re recording Episode 57 much earlier next week. Get your theories in. I’m sure there will be some waiting in the MuggleCast e-mail box, and we’ll talk about it more on next week’s listener rebuttals.
Anyway, moving on. Just in time, right after Jamie says he’s tired, it’s time for Dumbledore and Chuck Norris facts.
Jamie: The book, Lord of the Rings, was revised from it’s original. The first one had Frodo taking the One Ring to Dumbledore to destroy it.
Ben: Hey Jamie, as a matter of fact, someone actually sent in a letter…
Ben: …a letter that had some Dumbledore quotes on it.
Jamie: Oh, nice.
Jamie: Dumbledore once used an Engorgement Charm on a small hill. That hill is now known as the Himalayan Mountains.
Jamie: Dumbledore performed the Aguamenti Charm only once. The result left 70 percent of the Earth covered in water.
Andrew: Ooh. [laughs]
Jamie: Okay. Oh, I’m sorry. These are thanks to B.D., 27, from Alabama. [laughs] Okay, here’s one: A basilisk is born of a chicken’s egg hatched beneath a toad, but Dumbledore was born of a dragon’s egg hatched beneath a Hippogriff.
Jamie: That’s a kind of, you know. That’ll do for today.
Jamie: Andrew, Andrew, that’ll do for today.
Voicemails – Homeschooling
Andrew: That’s plenty. Now it’s time for this week’s voicemails. [laughs] Here’s the first one, from Amanda:
[Audio]: Hi, this is Amanda from Wisconsin. I just wanted to say I love your guys’ show and I have a question. When you guys were talking about, on your last episode, that if Hogwarts was to close, they could be home schooled, how would the students who are Muggleborns be taught? Because their parents, you know, don’t do magic. So, just wanted to see what you guys thought. Thanks, I love your guys’ show. Bye.
Andrew: Laura, you’re our home schooling expert. Tell us. Because you always stand by the – and I’m not trying to insult it or anything, I’m just saying you always stand by the…
Laura: Well, I think it’s also important to point out that I was forced to argue that point by the person who came up with this segment – thank you, Ben. And, while I…
Jamie: What segment is it?
Laura: The debate segment.
Ben: So, are you admitting that you have a substandard education, Laura?
Laura: No, I’m not saying that at all. I’m saying that you can’t really compare a Muggle education to a wizarding education because any parent can teach you math, however, any parent can’t teach you wizarding. There would have to be some sort of supplement.
Ben: No, any parent can’t teach you calculus, I’m sorry.
Laura: No, I’m saying any parent…
Ben: If my mom tried – my mom couldn’t teach me basic addition. [laughs]
Laura: Ben, I’m saying, I’m saying that any person, any person can study mathematics because it’s a universal thing. Not any person can…
Jamie: I can’t.
Laura: Yes, you can, Jamie.
Jamie: I’m [censored] at it. [laughs]
Ben: No, you can’t. You cannot study that.
Laura: No, you – yes, anyone can study it.
Ben: Once you get to advanced levels, you can’t.
Andrew: Yes, you can.
Ben: No, you can’t. You have to have some instruction.
Laura: No, you can study it, Ben.
Andrew: In books! In books!
Jamie: No, you can’t. No, you can’t.
Laura: It doesn’t mean you have to be a genius at it.
Ben: Okay, that’s like saying you can read a book on how to fly a plane and you’ll know how to fly a plane.
Andrew: Well, that’s different.
Laura: No, it’s not. It’s not. That is completely different.
Ben: It’s the same thing.
Laura: No, it’s not.
Ben: Okay, you can’t teach yourself calculus.
Laura: Some people can.
Ben: Okay, Laura.
Andrew: Someone had to invent calculus, Ben.
Laura: [laughs] Yeah.
Andrew: That’s a silly statement.
Ben: [laughs] Shut up, Andrew. You’re wrong.
Andrew: [laughs] No, I think what Laura is saying is magic is completely different because there’s a wand involved and there’s a certain way you have to flick the wand and there’s a certain, you know, you’ve got to concentrate…
Ben: No, but there’s the same, the same – you have to go through another process. You have to go through a process with math, too.
Laura: The thing is, though, that everyone can study math. Not everyone can study wizardry. So, there is a difference between Muggle studies…
Ben: Okay, everyone can – no, no. We’re going to come to the same playing field. Everyone wizard can study Potions.
Jamie: Yeah, exactly.
Ben: That’s what we’re saying.
Laura: Yeah, but not – yes.
Ben: They’re different subjects.
Laura: Yes, but we’re not talking about home schooling kids who have wizarding parents, we’re talking about home schooling kids who have Muggle parents.
Jamie: They can still do it, though.
Laura: What I’m saying is…
Jamie: If they’ve got the magical ability, they can do it. They can do it, they can teach themselves out of a book.
Laura: Sure, some people can read stuff, but not everyone is adept at teaching themselves. That’s true, they’re not, and so you would have to come up with some kind of system where you sent tutors. There are actually some home schooling systems where kids go to pick up their work two or three times a week, and they meet with teachers and tutors, and they do their lessons. They bring it home, they do their work at home, and then they take it back for grading.
Ben: Okay, if you were a Muggle parent…
Andrew: We don’t need to do a whole debate out of this.
Ben: …would you want to… No, I’m just curious…
Jamie: No, this is fine. This is fine.
Ben: …send your kid into a wizarding household, where they’re likely to be killed?
Laura: If you were a Muggle parent, would you want to send your child to a wizarding school where they’ll likely to be killed?
Jamie: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Andrew: Snap, Ben.
Ben: No, I’m saying it defeats the whole purpose.
Laura: It’s the same thing.
Ben: No, I’m saying it defeats the whole purpose of not sending them to Hogwarts.
Laura: No, it’s not…
Ben: If you’re going to send them somewhere else to be home schooled.
Laura: You don’t – no, you don’t have to send them to live with that person, they can use the Floo Network to get to and from…
Jamie: But Laura…
Jamie: Laura, coming back to the voicemail. Do your parents teach you, or do you do it all yourself?
Laura: No, I do it by myself.
Jamie: Okay, well that means that a student, a student who is Muggleborn – sorry, a wizard who is Muggle born – can do it, too.
Ben: No, they can’t because…
Laura: Sure, some of them…
Ben: No, listen, listen.
Laura: They can, Ben.
Jamie: Of course they can, Ben.
Ben: How did you learn to count to a hundred? Did you just, one day, wake up and say, “One, two, three, four…”
Jamie: But that’s primary. That’s kindergarten, that’s kindergarten.
Laura: No, that’s very different, Ben.
Ben: No, it’s not. No, it’s not. You have to have – someone has to help you establish the base in order for you to be able to build upon it. I mean, if you don’t have any base to build upon, then you’re not going to be able to enhance your education.
Jamie: The point is, though, Ben, people learn those things at primary school, whereas stuff like magic, you know, it’s like, we see in Hogwarts, it’s… You need to… You can’t be taught how to hold your wand and wave it so something happens. You have to learn it from, you know – you’ve got to learn it yourself. It’s like juggling; it’s just practice that does it.
Jamie: You can’t… Somebody can’t say to you, “Chuck one into the air and then move it across a bit. Then chuck the other one into the air, then catch it, then do this.” You have to learn it.
Ben: Yes, they do. That’s exactly what they do.
Laura: Yes, but it’s trial and error, Ben.
Ben: I – I know, but you have to have someone give you a push in the right direction. If you’re a Muggleborn – like swish and flick. Look, Flitwick spent a lot of time teaching them how to flick their wands the right way. You’re not going to be able to figure – imagine how long it’s going to take you to figure that out on your own. I’m just saying…
Jamie: You will. It’s written down. If it’s written down you can.
Laura: Are you saying that because, that because kids are home schooled, they can’t have teachers? Because that’s not true. I have teachers. I can contact them via e-mail. So there’s no reason that if a student was having trouble, they couldn’t write to their teacher – they couldn’t write to the person who wrote their course material.
Jamie: Yeah, well, exactly. Yeah, and…
Ben: I’m tired of being right, guys.
Andrew: No, okay. I think that you can – you can learn math to a point, and that point might be pre-calc or calculus.
Jamie: I cannot do Kevin’s math, man.
Andrew: Right. Same thing…
Laura: It depends…
Andrew: Same thing…
Laura: It depends on your abilities.
Andrew: Hold on, hold on! Yeah. You can learn magic to a point, but that point is basic – very basic magic.
Laura: There comes – the thing is…
Andrew: Because there comes a point in learning, going through your Hogwarts career that – or just your learning magical career that you will absolutely need a teacher.
Laura: The thing – there’s a thing that some students can teach themselves independently all the time. Some students can’t, and that is why if there was any kind of homeschooling program, I honestly, despite the debate last week, I don’t find it feasible that Hogwarts would close down. I don’t find it feasible that students would home school. I’m saying that it’s not an impossibility. I’m saying that people – people could do it…
Laura: …if there was some kind of conflict that made, that would allow for homeschooling to go on because it wouldn’t be safe to be at Hogwarts. It would have to be an alternative that people would take.
Jamie: I just think that it’s obvious that they can do it, though, because if you think Dumbledore and Voldemort couldn’t have get…couldn’t have got…couldn’t have been taught what they’ve learned…
Jamie: …over and above the basic stuff. They had to learn it themselves by trial and error and it’s only by trial and error that you can do it.
Laura: There was a time when there was no school…
Laura: …and people had to have educated themselves on magic.
Andrew: Okay, well, there you go. [laughs] This discussion could really go on forever.
Voicemails – Lily’s Eyes
[Audio]: Hey, MuggleCast. This is Alexia from Seattle and I was just re-reading Goblet of Fire and I was at the part where Moody’s doing the Imperius Curse and Harry is good as resisting it, and he says, “Watch his eyes, that’s where you see it – very good, Potter, very good indeed!” I was thinking maybe that’s the power that Lily’s eyes have – that they’re able to resist the Imperius Curse, because Lily fought Voldemort when he said, “Step aside” and he probably used the Imperius Curse on her, so I was just wondering what you thought. Thanks. Bye.
Laura: Well, yeah. That’s why a lot of people thought that whole bit in Prisoner of Azkaban the movie was foreshadowing where…
Andrew: About Lily’s eyes?
Laura: Yeah. About how she could see people for what they really were.
Ben: Well, what I think, I think the Imperius Curse has a lot to do with your, your ability to have control over your actions. I don’t know if it has anything… I don’t know if the eyes are as significant as…
Laura: Yeah, but the eyes are the window to the soul, Ben.
Jamie: No, but…
Jamie: …you can just see it in the eyes. It’s just like a reflection of what’s happening inside… I don’t think your eyes… Have you guys seen Minority Report, the film?
Jamie: Okay. [laughs] When, when Tom Cruise – if he was good at withstanding the Imperius Curse before he had his eyes changed, he’s still going to be able to afterwards.
Andrew: [laughs] Or anything in general. At life.
Jamie: Yeah. He’s still going to be able to afterwards.
Jamie: His eyes aren’t actually going to make any difference. Amen.
Andrew: Yep. Micah, what do you think? Is there a connection? Is there a link between the soul and the person’s eyes? Do you think there’s a little, a little, a little nerve that runs from the eye to your soul?
Micah: Oh yeah, absolutely. Doctors have proved it, in fact.
Ben: No, what I think, I think that… I mean, if you look in someone’s eyes, you can get…
Laura: You can tell what they’re feeling.
Ben: I know. You never just sit there and stare into someone’s… Yeah, you can tell like, their emotions, all those types of things. And like, there’s this girl at my school who I tell her she has the eyes of Satan because…
Ben: Every day I see her, I tell her she’s the devil child because…
Laura: Oh, my god.
Ben: I don’t know. I just look into her eyes and her pupils are like smaller than most people’s, like, they’re tiny and black and…
Jamie: Oh, well that settles it. She’s clearly – she’s clearly the…
[Micah and Laura laugh]
Andrew: The devil.
Jamie: …the anti-Christ, then. Yeah. Well, Ben, if you’d told us that, we would’ve completely agreed with you.
Ben: See, the devil. See, Moundridge High School has everything, Andrew. We have the smartest people, we have Satan, we have…
[Jamie and Laura laugh]
Andrew: [laughs] I see.
Jamie: Personal libraries.
Ben: [laughs] No, but you can tell – you can tell everything about people through their eyes. Not everything, but you know what I mean. Like, you can tell about how sweet their eyes are and how, how compassionate they are. That type of thing.
Jamie: Did you try and chat – chat that girl up, Ben, with that line?
Jamie: “Hey, I just thought I’d tell you…”
Ben: Actually, I sang an Elton John song.
Andrew: Yeah, by the way you’re supposed to announce the winner for that this week.
Ben: Actually, I did choose the winner.
Andrew: Well, let’s do it at the end. Micah, do you have to go now? Before we move on to our next voicemail?
Andrew: Micah, where are you going?
Micah: Yeah, I do.
Andre: What are you doing? Are you going to a ‘Jo Rowling listened to me’ party?
Micah: I actually have to go speak to Jo…
Micah: And thank her for updating the site.
Ben: She’s meeting Micah under the Brooklyn Bridge.
[Andrew and Jamie laugh]
Laura: Say hi to her for us, Micah.
Andrew: All right. See you Micah.
Jamie: Bye Micah.
Micah: All right guys.
Andrew: Micah Tannenbaum, everyone. Gets the results.
Micah: I’m still here.
Andrew: I know. I wasn’t making fun of you yet.
Ben: Oh, I was going to say, “Micah has friends?”
[Andrew and Ben laugh]
Micah: All right, Ben. Wait two seconds to do it, and then you can say it.
Ben: Okay. Sign off, Micah, so I can talk crap about you.
Micah: Ready? I’m hanging up now. All right, go for it.
Andrew: Okay. See you. Go ahead. Good.
Ben: Are you serious? Micah is social?
Andrew: [Laughs] Ben.
Jamie: Come on, come on.
Andrew: Next voicemail.
Voicemails – Fawkes
[Audio]: Hi MuggleCasters. This is Kathleen calling from central Australia where it’s been hitting it down the drains the past few days. I’m just calling with a question about Fawkes. What do you reckon his role will be in the seventh book? I’ve heard a lot of theories about maybe he’s Godric Gryffindor’s pet, or all the things connected with Voldemort and Harry’s wand and things like that. So I’d be interested to hear what you think. Anyway, bye!
Laura: I think Fawkes is going to peck Voldemort’s eyes out like he did the Basilisk.
Jamie: Yeah. [laughs]
Laura: And that’s just going to be the end of it.
Jamie: He clearly… But don’t you think that the battle at the end of Book Six, sorry, Book Five, in the Ministry, I thought showed two things specifically. That in a duel, Voldemort would defeat Dumbledore, because if Fawkes hadn’t been there, that spell would have hit Dumbledore, yeah?
Jamie: And killed him. So, unless you consider Fawkes to be part of Dumbledore.
Ben: When did Fawkes save Dumbledore at the Ministry?
Laura: Yeah, he ate the…
Jamie: Where he swallowed the Avada Kedavra spell, and then it created him again so he doesn’t die. First of all, it showed that because of Dumbledore’s advanced age and everything that Voldemort would defeat him.
Laura: Yeah, but then – but Jamie, if Voldemort can defeat Dumbledore, then I think your Dumbledore-Norris comparisons are pretty much over.
Jamie: No, no, no because in terms of wizarding stuff, yes, but if…
Ben: Dumbledore in his prime would spank Voldemort.
Jamie: If Chuck Norris and Dumbledore went after Voldemort, he just, he’d run and try and find all of his Horcruxes so he could die quickly and save some pain.
Jamie: Both of them together would be a… So anyway, the second thing that it proved, I thought, was how powerful Fawkes is. If he could swallow sort of the most powerful spell – one of the most powerful spells – and just turn into a baby again, even though he normally dies and turns into a baby, but if he can just take that spell like it’s absolutely nothing, and come back again, then that proves how powerful he is. And he clearly is an extremely powerful bird, because just like in the Chamber of Secretes when he dragged them all to the surface. And I think he’ll play a big role…
Laura: Yeah, but is that anything…
Jamie: Do you think he’ll be Harry’s pet?
Ben: What about the phoenix song? Do you guys have any idea about the phoenix song? We kept hearing it in Book Six, didn’t we?
Jamie: It inspires courage in the hearts of the true, and inspires fear in the hearts of the bad minded.
Ben: Well, maybe that will play a role again, you know? Just because…
Jamie: What? He’ll just start singing and Voldemort will cry and…
Ben: Yeah, Voldemort will just crumble.
Andrew: He’ll peck his eyes out, and then he’ll bring out Godric’s sword.
Jamie: But do you think he’s now Harry’s pet now?
Laura: Yeah, I think he’ll…
Jamie: Because he clearly was extremely fond of Harry.
Jamie: Yeah, like he stroked him and everything. That would be awesome if he was Harry’s pet.
Laura: I think that would make sense for Dumbledore to leave him to Harry.
Jamie: Yeah, in his will.
Andrew: Does Dumbledore have a will?
Andrew: That’d be sweet.
Ben: Well, if he’s planning his death. I think he planned his death, so he certainly did have a will.
Jamie: Yeah, yeah.
Andrew: Hmmm. That hasn’t been brought up before.
Ben: He wouldn’t die unprepared.
Andrew: Everyone send in their top ten items on Dumbledore’s will.
Andrew: [laughs] Seriously. andrew at staff. Subject: Dumbledore’s will, and I’ll read them and never do anything with them. So…
Jamie: Apart from read them, which is pretty important, Andrew.
Andrew: Yeah. Read by me, ho ho ho!
Jamie: The ultimate thing.
Andrew: The ultimate compliment.
Laura: What do you bet one of the things on that list is going to be pickles?
Dating Service Update
Andrew: I’m telling you, the pickle craze is picking up. That’s all the voice mails we got from everyone this week, and we’re almost out of show here. Quick dating service update: We got a lot of applicants, but there are too many, and it’s so confusing. Everyone’s all over the map with what they’re asking for and stuff. Send a new dating service request. In the subject, put your name, city, and state…
Andrew: … And what you’re looking for.
Laura: Now, Andrew…
Andrew: Guy or girl. And age. All in the subject, all in the subject, in that order that I just said. Rewind it.
Laura: Now, Andrew, when you say that people were all over the place [laughs] with what they wanted, are you saying they should lower their expectations?
Andrew: [laughs] No! No! What I’m saying is… What I’m saying is people are asking for different – it’s just confusing, all the e-mails that I have. That’s all I’m saying. It’s not very organized. I’m having a hard time…
Jamie: But Andrew…
Andrew: …sorting it all.
Jamie: [laughs] …it isn’t a real thing! Think about it!
Jamie: This isn’t a real thing!
Ben: This is for real, you guys. [laughs]
Andrew: No, this is for real, and I tried to…
Andrew: … get a couple together…
Jamie: How many couples have – how many couples have got together…
Jamie: … since MuggleCast’s…
Jamie: …dating service started? [laughs]
Andrew: Was Rome built in a day?
Jamie: Yes, it was! It’s a lie!
Andrew: No, it wasn’t! [laughs]
Jamie: Dumbledore and Chuck Norris…
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Jamie: …banded together and built it in half-a-day, I think.
Andrew: No, we are serious about this dating service thing. There’s a free dinner in it for you if you send in your e-mails, and, you know, we find good matches. They have to live near each other, and I have to do background checks on these people. I can’t hook people up…
Ben: [laughs] Be careful!
Andrew: … with pedophiles! How would I feel?
Ben: Andrew’s dad has a government connection.
Ben: He’ll check us all out.
Ben: I can’t believe he told us that.
Andrew: Yeah! [laughs] He really didn’t, though.
Andrew: So, mugglecast at staff dot mugglenet dot com. Dating service rewind to hear the order that I said in the subject line, ’cause I’m too lazy to try to remember it, and that’s that.
Winner of Ben’s Candle in the Wind Contest
Ben: I’d like to announce the winner of the Candle in the Wind parody. It comes from Cameron Smith, and I’ll post it on the website. I’ll give you a little preview of the first verse here. Jamie, would you like to join me in the song?
Jamie: Uh, no.
Ben: Please? [dings] Goodbye, Dumbledore…
Jamie: I don’t know it, Ben, so [laughs] how can I join you in it?
Ben: [continues singing] Though I never knew you at all, you had the skill to Apparate…
Jamie: No, no, no, no. Just sing it. Just sing it.
Ben: [continues singing] While those around you crawled…
Jamie: I can’t sing, anyway.
Ben: You crawled into the Ministry, and they whispered into Fudge’s brain. They removed you from the Wizengamot ’cause they thought that you were insane. And it seems to me you lived your life like a Phoenix in the wind…
[Laura and Jamie laugh]
Ben: Never knowing Snape would betray you when you let him in. And you probably should have killed Tom when he was just a kid…
[Andrew, Jamie, and Laura laugh]
Ben: [continues singing] Your Phoenix burned out long before your legend ever did.
Laura: [still laughing] That was quite good.
Ben: That was my beautiful rendition.
Jamie: That was good. Andrew, Andrew, I just want to point out why Ben did this competition. It was just so he could sing…
Andrew: So he could sing! Yeah! Pretty much.
Jamie: …Elton John on the show.
Andrew: [laughs] Oh, important note: Episode 57, we are going to be recording earlier in the week, so it’s going to be a little – the show might be a little different. Probably not Listener Rebuttals, because this Episode 57 is going to be the last show before…
Ben: Ever. [laughs]
Andrew: …California. Yeah. Ever.
Jamie: [laughs] Yeah.
Andrew: Before our live podcast and we’re all moving around. I’m going to be in England with Jamie, drinking tea.
Jamie: Yeah, eating crumpets.
Andrew: And Ben will be at Notre Dame with Emerson, drinking, well…
Andrew: We’ll leave your mind open on that.
Andrew: And … [laughs]
Ben: Orange juice.
Andrew: Orange juice! Anyway, contact information: You can…
Ben: PO Box…
Andrew: Yep. Go for it.
PO Box 223
Moundridge, Kansas, 67107.
Andrew: You can also call us in the United States. Dial 1-218-20-MAGIC, and in the United Kingdom, dial 020-8144-0677. And if in Australia, dial 02-8003-5668. If you have a question that you want us to answer on the show, you have to call it in. We always get questions via e-mail.
Ben: By e-mail.
Andrew: But we can’t answer them! We like the voice mails. It’s a sound show. And I like reading all the e-mails.
Ben: One more thing…
Andrew: And also… Hold on. Skype the user name MuggleCast, too. That’s another way of calling if you don’t want to dial the number. Just add MuggleCast to your Skype list. Keep your message under thirty seconds, listen to my awesome voice mail, where I say, “Pickle,” like that, and…
Laura: Are you kidding me? Did you actually edit…
Andrew: And also e-mail feedback form at MuggleCast…
Laura: …that specifically for that?
Andrew: I didn’t edit. I just re-recorded it earlier today. [laughs]
Ben: Another thing, Happy Birthday to my dear friend, Savannah. She’s a good Harry Potter fan. She listens to the show. I met her in Las Vegas. So, yeah. Happy Birthday.
Andrew: Here come all the birthday requests! [laughs]
Ben: I know, but I had to do this one. Fudgesickle.
Ben: It’s just like pickle, dude. It’s the new thing.
Andrew: No! Ewww! No!
Andrew: Ewww! No!
Ben: Come on!
Andrew: Ewww. Okay – Fudgesickle.
Andrew: Fudgesickle – pickle?
Jamie: Oh, no, no. That’s so, so strange.
Andrew: [laughs] That’s going overboard.
Ben: Can we leave that in? That’s a good one.
Jamie: Let’s change it to crumpets.
Andrew [Show Close with music in background]: Seriously, though, when we are in California, we want to see everyone with their pickles and their MuggleCast merchandise and all that. So, anyway, that wraps up the show. Once again, I’m Andrew Sims.
Ben: [speaks rapidly] I’m Ben Schoen. [laughs and slows down] I’m Ben Schoen.
Laura: I’m Laura Thompson.
Jamie: [speaks rapidly] I’m Jamie Lawrence.
Andrew: Wow. That was quick! [laughs] I didn’t even hear it!
Jamie: How’d you know I said it, then?
Andrew: Sorry, I forgot. There’s also – Don’t forget to join our Frappr map. I love – We love looking at pictures of you.
Laura: No. Andrew…
Andrew: No, seriously. Everyone go on our Frappr map.
Jamie: What’s Andrew going to say now, Ben?
Laura: Andrew loves looking at pictures of you.
Andrew: Okay, fine.
Jamie: What’s Andrew going to say now?
Andrew: I wanted to be…
Jamie: All right. What’s Andrew going to say now? [imitating Andrew] “You’re all a bunch of really good looking people, so you know dudes, send your photos!”
Andrew: You’re an attractive bunch. [Laughs]
Jamie: Yeah, see that’s right.
Andrew: I want to see your pictures. [laughs] No seriously. It’s fun looking at…
Andrew: Okay, that just sounds weird! [laughs] So, anyway!
[Andrew and Ben laugh]
Andrew: Join our Facebook group, and we have a MuggleCast MySpace group coming very, very, very soon. And by very, very, very soon I mean…
Laura: Never. [Laughs]
Andrew: Soon. And by soon I mean I don’t really know.
Ben: And by soon he means when the guy finally gives it to us.
Andrew: [laughs] Yeah. Well, he ran into a problem with it. That’s why there’s been a hold up. So, that’s it. We’ll see everyone next week for Episode 57. Fifty – Yeah, 57. [laughs]
Ben: He’s lost it.
[Show music plays]
[Audio]: Hi. This is Howard in England, and I’m calling to say that the debate that you had, at the beginning I thought that Ben and Jamie were right, but I’ve got to say that Laura and Eric, they covered it. They were really good. Great debate. Well done. they stayed on topic, stayed on a point, and so I’m agreeing with them now. Good job!
[Audio]: Hi. This is Jillian from New Jersey, and I just wanted to say that people say people from Jersey talk fast, but Jamie, you beat us all. I love the show! Keep it up! Bye!
[Audio]: Hey, MuggleCast! This is Sonia. I’m 15 from the UK, and I just wanted to say that I really, really love your show, and it’s the highlight of my week. I listen to it every week and it’s all great. And I just wanted to say thanks for being so great, and cheering me up when I’m upset and everything. So, thank you! Bye!
[Audio]: Hi. This is Paul from Damascus. I was just wondering how to get a web link on the MuggleCast dating service. Because it’s really hard to find someone that likes Harry Potter around here, and just trying to hook up, you know? Well, thanks! Bye!
[Show music ends]
Special Song By David C.
Andrew: As a special bonus this week we have a special song made by David C. of Reading, Pennsylvania. He took clips from last week’s episode, Episode 56, to show how musical we were. Enjoy!
Ben: Bom! Bom bom bom!
Andrew: What’s buggin’ Micah? Duh duh la duh duh la duh duh la doo! What, what, what’s buggin’ Micah? What, what, what’s buggin’ Micah?
Ben: Bom! Bom bom bom!
Andrew: Duh duh la duh duh la duh duh la doo!
[singing to the tune of the theme song] Na na na na na na na na!
What, what, what’s buggin’ Micah? What, what, what’s buggin’ Micah?
Eric: [singing] I’ve got a peaceful easy feeling!
Andrew: What, what, what’s buggin’ Micah?
Ben: Bom! Bom bom bom!
Andrew: Dumbledore was whomping McGonagall! Ahhh!
Ben: Bom! Bom bom bom!
Andrew: What, what, what’s buggin’ Micah. Dumbledore-Norris Facts! Yay!
Andrew: What, what, what’s buggin’ Micah? Duh duh la duh duh la duh duh la doo! Huh?!
Ben: Bom! Bom bom bom!
Ben: Bom! Bom bom bom!
Andrew: While I was downloading the episode! Oooh!
Ben: Bom! Bom bom bom!
Andrew: What, what, what’s buggin’ Micah?
Ben: To get to the other siiide!
Andrew: Back to school edition! What, what, what’s buggin’ Micah?
Ben: Bom! Bom bom bom!
Andrew: Duh duh la duh duh la duh duh la doo!
Ben: I’m saved by the bell. It’s all right…
Andrew: Ooooh oooh oooh! What’s, what, what’s buggin’ Micah. Duh duh la duh duh la duh duh la doo! What, what, what’s buggin’ Micah?
Ben: Bom! Bom bom bom!
Andrew: What, what, what’ buggin’ Micah? Duh duh la duh duh la duh duh la doo!
Ben: Bom! Bom bom bom!
Andrew: Duh duh la duh duh la duh duh la doo! Is he a wallflower?
Jamie: Is he a wallflower?
Andrew: [in deep voice] Is he a wallflower? Is he a wallflower?
Jamie: Care and attention went into making them.
Ben: If you want your pickle hat I’m going to have to pack another suitcase just full of PO box crap.
Jamie: Oh yeah, because a hat must take up so much room, Ben.
Ben: [in mock Brittish accent] It take up a lot more room than you think when you’re going to be gone for over a week…
Jamie: [laughs] Okay, well Ben!
Ben: You need plenty of space for your clothes, Jamie.
Andrew: [laughs] Okay, okay.
Jamie: Well, Ben, you wouldn’t do that because you wore the same shirt for the entire two weeks we were away in New York. So… [laughs]
Ben: Oh, is this the joke when I’m not around? That you…
Andrew: No, I’ve never heard that.
Jamie: No, that’s the first time I’ve said it since I said it in Vegas, you paranoid…
Ben: No, I know, I know.
Jamie: Ben’s like [imitating Ben] “Dude! You’re talking about me behind my back, man! Dude! Dude!”
Ben: No, I know you do. I know how you operate, Jamie. I know how you operate.
Jamie: Okay, Ben! Okay, Ben, don’t even think about going there…
Ben: You made fun of my shorts, you made fun of…
Andrew: Let’s argue about this after the show.
Ben: The shorts that I wore. Just because there’s a lot of pictures of me with those shorts on doesn’t mean I wore them every day!
Jamie: [laughs] Well, you did, though!
Ben: No, I didn’t!
Andrew: Sorry, but those pictures were every day.
Jamie: You did wear them every day!
Ben: I did not wear them every day.
Jamie: It’s those red – those red…
Andrew: Let’s keep going.
Jamie: Andrew, this is funny stuff. Put this stuff in. People will like it.
Jamie: [laughs] This is just weird. Dumbledore hexed [censored] the go… Oh that’s terrible! I can’t do that!
[Andrew and Micah laugh]
Jamie: I just got that, suddenly.
Ben: Say it. Andrew, edit it out. I want to hear it.
Jamie: Okay. Dumbledore hexed [censored]…
Jamie: I didn’t get that at first!
Ben: You guys, that is ridiculous.
Jamie: I didn’t… Oh my god, that’s terrible.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Written by: Micah, Adrienne, Allison, Amanda, Jessica, Judy, Mandie, Margaret, Martina, Matthew, Megan, Roni, Shannon and Shelly