Transcript #87

MuggleCast 87 Transcript

Show Intro

[Audio]: What’s up, MuggleCast listeners? If you want to make an impact online has what you need. Get your own dot-com domain name for as low as $1.99. Plus, world class hosting, fast and easy website builders and much more. Plus, as a listener of MuggleCast, enter code Ron, that’s R-O-N, when you check out and get your dot-com domain name for just $6.99 a year. Some restrictions apply, see site for details. Get your piece of the internet at

Andrew: This week’s MuggleCast is also brought to you by Borders. Prepare for the upcoming release of Book 7 by catching a glimpse of where it all began. During the month of April, you can purchase Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone on DVD for only $14.99 at Borders. Also be sure to reserve Book 7 at Borders at 40 percent off and get a free sticker. Choose from “Trust Snape” or “Snape is a very bad man.”

[Intro music begins to play]

Micah: Because we lost Andrew on the Outer Banks, this is MuggleCast Episode 87 for April 15th, 2007.

[Intro music continues to play]

Laura: Okay everyone, I think it’s time that we come clean.

Jamie: Do you really think so? Because it was such a joke.

Laura: I really do think that we should, Jamie, because so many people were so upset about it and I think it’s just time we came out and admitted that we really didn’t get the Book 7 manuscript.

Jamie: I would base this on one question: Would a general member of the population believe that in the seventh book, Jo would personally write that Harry slipped on a slice of carrot cake and broke his pelvis?

[Kevin and Laura laugh]

Jamie: Because if the general population says, “No,” then I don’t think we should come clean. I think we should let people stew in their own disbelief, and believe it’s true and stuff.

Eric: Or we can insult our listeners for believing that Harry slipped on a piece of carrot cake, or…

Jamie: I think we should – I’m sorry, Eric. I think that they deserve insulting if they believed that.

Eric: Well if that didn’t do it for them, the whole Facebook thing…

Jamie: Yeah exactly.

Eric: …Was a lot more realistic. So…

Jamie: Oh wait, that wasn’t true?

Eric: Oh. Then it is time to come clean.

Jamie: Well listen, I tagged him, I wrote on his wall. So, don’t spoil the magic for me.

Laura: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, in all seriousness everybody, it was a joke.

Jamie: It was.

Laura: Frankly I was a little surprised that there were people who believed it.

Jamie: It’s just a joke. It’s just a joke.

Laura: I love how our supposed to be 30-second intro has now turned into two-and-a-half minutes of intro. And with that, I’m Laura Thompson.

Kevin: I’m Kevin Steck.

Jamie: Jamie Lawrence.

Eric: I’m Eric Scull.

Micah: And I’m Micah Tannenbaum.

[Intro music continues to play]


Micah: Well Laura, there will soon be seven. That is the new ad for the Deathly Hallows marketing campaign designed by Scholastic, and it appears in the most recent addition of Entertainment Weekly.

Speaking of the seventh book, back in March, Scholastic announced their promotional plans for Deathly Hallows which included a Knight Bus tour. Scholastic has now released the dates and locations for their 37-stop tour along the East Coast of the United States. For more information you can check out

In an interview conducted on the Order of the Phoenix set last fall, producer David Heyman discussed what cuts they made to the film, his take on the film’s darkness and intensity and director David Yates. He said about Yates,

“You see a director with real strong point of view. A really idiosyncratic sensibility. He is someone who grounds things. He makes everything seem very real and authentic, and that’s very important for this… This is a film which is grounded, I think, more in reality in the sense that it’s about a revolution, in a way. War is upon us, or is getting closer, as Voldemort has returned.”

And Evanna Lynch recently did an interview where she spoke in detail about the past year where she won the role of Luna Lovegood. On whether she and Luna share similarities, Evanna says this:

“Yes, quite a few. I believe that almost anything is possible if you see the possibilities rather than the obstacles; Luna has some very unconventional beliefs that need no basis of fact and while I don’t share them I think it shows us that she won’t believe things are untrue until you have some very firm evidence. There is no evidence to suggest that the Crumple Horned Snorkack exists, but there is no evidence to suggest that it doesn’t exist, therefore she can believe in it. I think the main difference between us is that I am a lot more ambitious and that makes me serious. Luna is so free and seems to drift along with life, dealing with everything as it comes to her.”

JK Rowling is set to be featured on “Britain’s Rich List” next Thursday on ITV1 at 9 p.m. According to Radio Times, “Every year the Sunday Times Rich List ranks Britain’s top earners by their wealth. ITV gets an exclusive preview and meets the members of this exclusive club where the entry level is seventy million quid.”

Finally, happy birthday to Emma Watson. The Harry Potter actress who plays Hermione Granger turns 17 today, and another Emma, Emma Thompson, who plays professor Trelawney, turns 48.

That’s all the news for this April 15th, 2007, edition of MuggleCast. Back to the show.

Laura: All right, thank you Micah.

Micah: You’re welcome, Laura. You know I like doing the news for you much better than Andrew.

[Jamie laughs]

Laura: Oh yeah. I know I’m not as pushy about you getting it done, right?

Micah: That’s right.

Jamie: Yeah, you should see Andrew.


Laura: Okay, we’ve only got one announcement for everybody this week-it’s just Podcast Alley. We’re number one over there so just keep up the voting. We’re ahead of that other Potter podcast and Keith and the Girl, which is always nice.

Jamie: But do you know what?

Laura: Uh-huh?

Jamie: Can I just say quickly, do you think we’re insulting the intelligence of our listeners by asking them every week to vote on Podcast Alley?

Laura: I don’t think so.

Jamie: Because you’d think after 87 shows, they might just remember.

Kevin: I wouldn’t, honestly.

Jamie: No, I wouldn’t.

Laura: Yeah, neither would I.

Kevin: I would totally forget.

Laura: And you notice that when we’ve gone for weeks at a time without doing it, we’ve slowly dropped down the list and I just think it’s good to remind people every now and then.

Jamie: Every week. Every week, you mean.

Laura: So just keep it in mind. [laughs] Every week and especially at the beginning of every month, go vote at Podcast Alley.

Jamie: Shouldn’t we add a kind of threat in there to make it seem more realistic? If you don’t vote for us on Podcast Alley…

Laura: Well let’s see, we have you listen to the other Potter podcast and God kills a kitten. So…

Jamie: Yeah, yeah, that’s God kills a kitten, but I think we need to take it a bit further, because if they listen to it it’s okay, but I think if they don’t vote on Podcast Alley, that’s pretty serious. So God doesn’t only kill the kitten…

Laura: Oh, well then…

Jamie: …he kills its family.

Laura: We will really spoil Book 7. We will really spoil Book 7. There we go.

Jamie: No, no, Laura it’s just a book though. It’s just a book. He’ll kill the kitten, he’ll torture their family and empty their checking accounts, and he’ll forge their signature and buy 500 quids worth of…

Eric: Wow!

Jamie: …coats from…

Laura: Wow. That’s…

Religious Complaints Addresseed

Eric: No. And speaking of dissing God, we have to say that right now in this announcement. I think we should really talk about that, actually. Because that’s – yeah.

Laura: Yeah, definitely. A lot of people – yeah, well not really – tons of people, but we’ve gotten several emails concerning listeners who think that we are dissing Christians and that’s one hundred percent not true. We have never on this show dissed Christians.

Jamie: How could you possibly think that way? We’re a Harry Potter podcast.

Laura: Yeah. It’s because we make jokes about Laura Mallory, and I think that if you go back and listen to previous episodes, you can clearly grasp that making fun of Laura Mallory is not making fun of other Christians, because we don’t associate fanatical Christians with non-fanatical Christians. And I think that pretty much sums it up. Does anyone else have anything to say on that?

Jamie: [coughs] I think that was pretty perfect.

Eric: Even though we’re not associating with non-fanatical Christians with Laura Mallory, are we associating Laura Mallory with fanatical Christians?

Laura: Yes. Of course we are because…

Eric: I withhold the question. I withhold the question. You’re doing great.

Laura: Okay [laughs] All right.

Andrew’s Note

Micah: Just let’s stay away from that. Please. Laura, I have an announcement.

Laura: You do? What is that Micah?

Micah: I do. If people haven’t noticed already, we kind of…

Jamie: You’re pregnant.

Micah: Yes, I am Jamie, but you weren’t supposed to know that. So don’t tell everyone. At least not now.

[Everyone snickers]

Micah: Anyway we’re down one of our hosts. Andrew is not here this week, but…

Laura: Oh, yeah…

Micah: He wanted me to read a little bit of a note that he put together for all of his fans out there. Do you mind if I go ahead?

Eric: Why does he always do this?

Laura: It just creates pickle. That’s all it says, “Pickle.”

[Jamie laughs]

Laura: They all know what it means.

Micah: No, it’s a little bit more involved than that. It’s actually why he’s not here. So, I think we should take a few minutes and go into this…

Jamie: Is it embellished and sensationalized as well?

Eric: Why do we do this every week? The guy can’t make it, or adding it when he’s editing it.

Jamie: Because it’s normally a boring excuse. Why can’t he make it? Oh because he’s going on a family meal. Oh, wow.

Laura: [laughs] Okay, Micah. Why don’t you go ahead and read it.

Micah: All right, it says, “Dear listeners, I deeply regret not being here on this week’s show.”

Jamie: No, he doesn’t.

[Everyone laughs]

Micah: “I am on an important business trip to track down the latest fabricated Michael Goldenburg interviews. Don’t tell Micah this.”

Ummm, okay.

“But I think it was him who tried to frame me. Always yours, Andrew.”

[Jamie laughs]

Micah: So, he’s having me try to implicate myself…

Laura: Uh-oh…

Micah: …by reading his e-mail here. That’s a little bit…odd.

Laura: Micah what have you been doing in your spare time?

[Kevin laughs]

Micah: Apparently fabricating Michael Goldenburg interviews. [laughs]

Jamie: Michael…Micah, that’s your hobby. That’s what you do.

Laura: Okay, moving on. I think we have some rebuttals. Eric?

Listener Rebuttal: Spine Symbol

Eric: Oh, yes. Of course. Micah and I will be doing this episode’s rebuttals. From Guro, age 19 from Norway. Subject is Spine-symbol, and greek letters. Its says:

“Hey, guys just wanted to comment on episode 85 where you talk about the symbol on the spine of the UK children’s edition of the seventh book, and Mikey said that it was a circle and a perfect triangle. This is probably true, however I think he overlooked that it can also be a combination of the two Greek letters Delta and… Phi…”

Jamie: Phi…it’s “phee.”

Eric: Yes, I thought it was “Phee.”

“I think this is the case, because of the straight line across the circle. Now what does that mean you say? Phi is related to wisdom (as anyone who has read ‘The Da Vinci Code’ will tell you)…”

Jamie: Absolutely. Very true, very true.

Eric: “And Delta is…”

Yeah Jamie, you are a big Dan Brown fan I hear.

Jamie: I am, I am. Quite a big Dan… I am. I am.

Eric: “And Delta is as I’m sure most of you know, related to math. However Delta is also the symbol used in legal shorthand for the defended. This may not mean anything, just thought I should point it out. Thanks!

Laura: I think that little bit about the defended…

Jamie: Yeah.

Laura: …because when you think about it, the character who is going to need the most defending in Book 7 is Snape.

Eric: I’m trying to think in terms of this in being a part of the cover. I really think it’s a publisher’s symbol of some sort because you know it’s on the…

Laura: I don’t think so – yeah, but it’s on the spine in the same area where other pictures have been on the rest of the books.

Eric: Oooh, okay, then I am completely wrong.

Jamie: That is true. Phi is actually very interesting in The Da Vinci Code. For those people who haven’t read it, let me just completely spoil it by saying that Robert Langdon, the main character, talks about the symbol Phi and it’s relation to sort of physics, biology and he says the relation between female and male honeybees in the community is one point – oh, I can’t remember this – six point eight?

Eric: I thought it was three point…

Jamie: No that’s Pie.

Eric: Oh well, yeah, 3.14, but, no. I mean, I loved Da Vinci Code – I actually prefer Angels and Demons – but 1.618 I think it is. You’re right, Jamie, it is. The relation…

Jamie: And the relation between honeybees and bees and male bees in their communities and sort of the relation – the ratio of shells, the inner thing of the shells. Stuff like that. It’s very interesting, and I encourage people to read it. And that’s my check from Dan Brown’s publishing company, as well as from FOX last week for Prison Break references.

[Everyone laugh]

Laura: Yeah, really. [laughs]

Eric: Ieah, I’ll cut in on some of that action.

Jamie: Yeah.

Eric: The male, the proportionate human. [Something beeps in background] Sorry. The proportion of human is also divisible in also body lengths…

Jamie: It is, yeah.

Eric: …by Phi.

Eric: So, yeah, it’s quite cool. But no, the symbols on the spine of the UK editions. The first book had – oh, now I’m forgetting it. Well, the second book at any rate, it had Hedwig in her cage, the third one had the Grim, the fourth one had yet another owl, actually. Book 5, Order of the Phoenix, in UK had the feather of the Phoenix and Book 6 had Marvolo Gaunt’s ring, or the Gaunt ring, presumably.

Jamie: That’s interesting.

Laura: Yeah.

Micah: So…

Laura: I like especially that Gaunt’s ring was on the spine of Half-Blood Prince because it goes to show that they are really putting emphasis on important aspects from the books on the spine. So, I think that the symbol definitely is going to play a role in the book. I don’t have a question about it.

Listener Rebuttal: The Prophecy

Micah: Alright, next rebuttal comes from Ayzil? Is that right? I hope so.

Jamie: A-zil. I think so.

Laura: A-zul. A-zil. Yeah, sorry!

Micah: Twenty-seven, from Texas. She writes in about The Prophecy. So, a little bit unrelated about our Book 7 discussion, but she comes up with a pretty cool idea. She said:

“I thought of this while listening to one of your casts a couple weeks ago when Jamie was talking about tying Voldemort to a chair and Avada Kedavra-ing him.”

Jamie: [laughs] That’s a good idea.

Micah: “Why does Harry have to do that? I have an off-the-wall theory regarding the prophecy given to Dumbledore during Trelawney’s interview. It starts with, ‘The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches…’ and then pauses. Could she have been talking about another person besides the chosen one? If you think about it, two people were ‘approaching’ that room at that very moment: Snape and Dumbledore’s brother. I thought it would be interesting if the Prophecy was meant for Harry, but that first sentence was meant for another who will help Harry in the end. Let me know your thoughts even if you think I’m an idiot.”

Jamie: That is the hottest thing I have ever heard in my life…

Laura: Yeah.

Jamie: That is…oh my god.

[Kevin laughs]

Jamie: This room is definitely 25 degrees.

Laura: You are definitely not an idiot.

Jamie: Yeah, you aren’t an idiot. That’s actually so true. It’s clearly got to be right, just because it is so awesome. That is actually brilliant.

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: Well, done. Please some over here so I can hug you.

Eric: So, what… Snape and Aberforth Dumbledore presumably Snape -by the ear- were approaching…

[Kevin laughs]

Jamie: Yeah. “The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches…” Approaches the room…oh my god. I wish I was that clever!

Laura: I mean, what’s great about it is she’s right. There’s a pause between the two thoughts…

Jamie: Yeah, really.

Laura: So, they might not be related.

Jamie: That is brilliant.

Eric: Yeah, what’s the next sentence? “Born to those who thrice defied him…”

Laura: It’s “Born to those who thrice defied him…”

Eric: The-what?

Jamie: [sneezes] God, that is absolutely genius.

Eric: Yeah, well. There are two nouns there. If she refers to someone… If she uses a different term to describe Harry right then and there, then it’s definite I think because doesn’t she say “Born to those…”

Jamie: Cue the moment of silence for this…

Laura: “Born to those who thrice defied him, Born as the seventh month dies…”

Jamie: “And the Dark Lord will…”

Laura: “And the Dark Lord will mark him as his equal.”

Eric: “And he will have the power of the Dark Lord knows not…”

Laura: “And he will have the power the Dark Lord knows not…”

[Kevin laughs]

Laura: So actually she only uses the word “one” in reference to the person who can defeat the Dark Lord once. She doesn’t use it multiple times.

Jamie: “Approaches,” that is just so good. [laughs]

Kevin: Yeah, it’s a pretty interesting…

Laura: [laughs] Oh, I know.

Jamie: Oh my god. Can we have a collective, “Oh, god”?

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: Heave ho, god.

[Laura laughs]

Micah: I really like this though. I think this is a great, great theory because…

Jamie: It’s – no, that’s actually brilliant. Absolutely brilliant.

Micah: I think – I’ve always thought there’s more to the prophecy.

[Kevin laughs]

Micah: I think we all have. And Jo said that she worded it very carefully with Trelawney.

Jamie: She did. Yeah.

Micah: So, it’s very possible…

Jamie: It clearly isn’t Trelawney, though, because she’s useless. So it has to be Snape. [laughs]

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: All Trelawney does is drink sherry. You know…

Micah: No, no, no.

Jamie: What’s she going to do?

Micah: What I was saying is that she worded it when she wrote it…

Laura: Yeah.

Micah: ..,carefully with Trelawney.

Jamie: She did.

Micah: Not that Trelawney…

Eric: Trelawney stumbles, too.

Jamie: Eric, do you think it’s a kind ofPirates of the Caribbean thing? When, you know, Harry’s going to be fighting Voldemort…

[Kevin laughs]

Jamie: …in this, sort of, blacksmith’s yard. And then Trelawney’s going to be sitting there, asleep. And just as Voldemort steps backwards, she’s going to grab her bottle and just smash him over the head.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: And then, right after that…

Jamie: I swear.

Eric: Right after that, Jamie, she’ll say, “But why is the sherry gone?” So.

Jamie: She will. Yes. Exactly.

[Laura laughs]

Listener Rebuttal: Durmstrang and Gringotts

Micah: Next rebuttal comes from Tiffany, 24, of Australia. She said,

“Hi, MuggleCasters. Love the dumb jokes…”

I don’t think our jokes are dumb, do you?

Laura: Dumb?

[Eric, Jamie and Laura laugh]

“Love the topics, love the show! P.S. I think the castle on the back of the U.K. children’s cover may be Durmstrang, as it looks quite icy and J.K.R. said we will be seeing Krum again. Also, the mist could be the dementors breeding. I would also like to add that I think the U.K. children’s may be Gringotts. Hagrid takes an “indestructible” goblin-wrought helmet to present to the Gurg in Half-Blood Prince – or may possibly be a vault of Gryffindor’s, seeing as the only stones in that treasure are rubies. Sorry if I’m repeating anything anyone else has said, and thanks for a great show!”

Jamie: Interesting, interesting. I like that Durmstrang idea.

Laura: I like the mist.

Jamie: Very clever. The mist, as well.

Laura: Yeah, a lot of people seem to think that it’s Durmstrang.

Kevin: Yeah. I saw that.

Laura: Yeah.

Kevin: But I’m not so sure because they say it looks icy. And it just seems like…

Laura: It just seems like that’s the moon.

Eric: It’s a play on the moon. Yeah.

Laura: Yeah, I don’t think it’s really icy. I mean, it’s definitely icy in color and appearance, but I don’t know if it’s actually. But, what I really like about Tiffany’s rebuttal is she talks about the possibility of the U.K. children’s cover taking place in Gringotts. Which is great, because…

Jamie: It is. Yeah.

Laura: Today’s main discussion is about Gringotts. And we’ll be getting to that in a few minutes. Does anyone else have anything to say on this one, or should we move on?

Jamie: Well, didn’t we talk about, on a previous show, that we thought that the treasure had to be at Gringotts. Because, you know…

Laura: Yeah.

Jamie: It had the – and…

Laura: I mean, definitely has the look.

Jamie: I think that it’s a pretty safe conclusion, you know. It’s – And Gringotts has always been hyped up. Actually no, not really hyped up. But, she made the…

Kevin: Like highlighted it.

Jamie: Yeah, yeah. Exactly.

Kevin: Yeah. She made a point of putting it in.

Jamie: And Jo made the deal of making the poem to be a big deal. You know, the thing on the front door of Gringotts. And Hagrid said that Gringotts was the safest place to keep something, apart from Hogwarts. And it just seems like a safe place anyway. So, we have to go back there. All these places have to be important to both sides of the Wizarding war, you know?

Laura: And what I love about it is, you’ll remember that I’ve been, you know, harping on about this whole parallels between the different books.

Jamie: Yeah.

Laura: And really, the largest role that Gringotts has played was in Book 1.

Jamie: Yeah.

Laura: And I’m really excited about seeing it again in Book 7.

Jamie: I agree.

Laura: I think it’s awesome.

Micah: I like the part about the indestructible, goblin-wrought helmet. Because if you look at some of the pieces on the cover of the U.K. children’s edition, it shows that there’s not just the helmet but it seems like there’s a lot of different pieces of armor. Which actually leads into the rebuttal. So, Eric, go ahead.

Listener Rebuttal: Goblin-Wrought Armor

Eric: Why, thank you, Micah. And now with today’s weather. This fourth rebuttal comes from Ann Beth, age 16, also from Norway. We have a lot of Norwegian Harry Potter fans. And we appreciate every single one of them.

Jamie: [sings] Sara Beth. [laughs] Two.

Eric: Well, two in one episode is very, very big.

Jamie: It is.

Eric: Very good. Okay, subject is U.K. children’s cover.

“Hey, guys and Laura. I was just listening to Episode 83…”

Woot woot. Which Eric did a wonderful job editing.

“And when you were discussing the U.K. children’s cover, I remembered something.”

Micah: I don’t think it said that. [laughs]

Eric: Well, just because it’s not transcribed doesn’t mean she doesn’t say it.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: “In ‘Half-Blood Prince’ pg. 407, U.K. edition, Dumbledore and Harry are looking at the memory of Hepzibah Smith. Voldemort visited Hepzibah because he wanted to know if she still wasn’t willing to sell her goblin-made armor. It was only mentioned in passing, but we all know that that’s J.K.’s style.”

We sure do.

“Could that be the armor featured on the U.K. children’s cover?”

The goblin-made armor in from there. Yeah.

Jamie: Very interesting.

Eric: “If so, is it a Horcrux? Perhaps it belonged to Ravenclaw or Gryffindor, seeing that Gryffindor had a sword, perhaps he had an armor to go with it. Just wanted to know what you guys think.”

Kevin: It’s possible, yeah.

Micah: Well, one thing I just wanted to bring up was that Hepzibah Smith was visited by Tom Riddle when he was still working at Borgin and Burke’s. And upon arriving to Miss Hepzibah, he told her that he was there because Mr. Burke would like to make an improved offer for the goblin-made armor. So, I thought that was kind of interesting because, again, there is armor on the cover the children’s edition in the U.K. for Deathly Hallows. So, is it possible that maybe Mr. Burke didn’t want it. Maybe Tom Riddle wanted it to make a Horcrux because we know the nature of the armor itself is almost indestructible.

Laura: Yeah. It’s definitely possible. It would be something that would really appeal to him, I think. My question is, did he actually make a Horcrux out of it? What are the chances that the Cup, you know, Hufflepuff’s Cup and some armor: two Horcruxes would come from one person?

Jamie: But it isn’t only that. It’s just, goblin-made armor, it doesn’t…

Kevin: Yeah.

Jamie: I agree. It just doesn’t seem special enough. Yes, it’s special, but there’s more than one goblin who can make it.

Kevin: He wants one-of-a-kind pieces. Yeah, unique.

Jamie: Whereas, Hufflepuff’s Cup – exactly, yeah, he wants – Pokemon reference, Pokemon reference.

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: The three legendary birds in the game, you can only catch one of them once. You had one chance to catch them, and if you missed it, you missed it…

Eric: Would that be Zapdos, Molestare – Moltres and…

Jamie: Almost…

Eric: Articuno…

Jamie: Articuno…

Eric: Yes!

Jamie: …Zapdos and Moltres. But yeah, you only had once chance to catch them and if you missed it, you missed it. And it’s kind of like that. I think he just wanted one-of-a-kind things. So I don’t think he’d want something which, although very, very rare and which could be done with a spell or made by, you know, any number of goblins and it’s still rare and the techniques are still rare, I don’t think he’d want that. Because he’d just want one-of-a-kind items.

Micah: Well, what if it’s one-of-a-kind in who it belonged to, though. We don’t know who the armor belonged to.

Jamie: That’s true.

Laura: Yeah, that’s true. I think it’s also possible that even if he ended up not making it into a Horcrux, he might have been considering it.

Jamie: Yeah, that is true.

Laura: Like maybe he thought about doing that and then as time went on he thought he wanted to be a little more selective about the items he chose.

Jamie: Yeah.

Laura: Yes, no, maybe?

Eric: Yeah, well…

Jamie: We…

Eric: And also, it’s dependent on – I mean, I’m willing to believe that maybe it was actually Borgin that – or Mr. Burke – that wanted this, you know? Maybe, potentially? Just because of it’s retail value. But also, about what Laura was asking regarding could he – would he take two things from the same founder, from the same person? I really – I think kind of it might have been desperation if he did. You know, what he can get his hands on of the four founders? Because, obviously, anything Hogwartsian is kind of special to him. But I also think in the Book 7, it doesn’t necessarily mean that all the items of the founders are Horcruxes. But I do think that Harry will have to find items of the founders as a completely separate entity. Perhaps for a different reason. Maybe the founders of Hogwarts’ items will aid Harry. Not because they’re Horcruxes, but just because they’re special in themselves. Do you guys think that is possible?

Laura: Mhm. Well, I was almost thinking that Harry might have to – Part of his adventure might just be finding clues. Not just finding Horcruxes…

Kevin: Yeah.

Possibility of Fake Horcruxes

Laura: …but finding various things that Tom Riddle had owned that aren’t Horcruxes but that lead him to one. Kind of along the lines of the locket.

Eric: Voldemort’s got a secret stash.

Laura: Of fake Horcruxes?

Jamie: Yeah.

Eric: No.

Jamie: He’s got…

Laura: He just throws them out at will?

Jamie: Can I make a parallel?

Eric: Well, I don’t know.

Laura: Yeah, go ahead, Jamie.

Jamie: There was a film called Under Siege 2 which starred Steven Seagal.

[Everyone laughs]

Jamie: And basically what happened was they put this – no, seriously. This is serious. They put this satellite into orbit and this satellite could blast any location on Earth with like a power of…

Eric: Like GoldenEye?

Jamie: Like GoldenEye. Exactly, just like GoldenEye. And, basically what happened was the U.S. military wanted to destroy this satellite. So, the mastermind who took over this satellite and made it evil to blast all these things created a number of, sort of, like fake satellites. And then the military had, like, 50 to choose from. In the end they got the wrong one, but then it all worked out because in Steven Seagal films he has to be the, you know, the cool hero who kicks everyone’s thing. So…

Eric: Yeah.

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: But yeah, that could be like it. Voldemort creates bad, like, fake Horcruxes. Because, I mean, I’d do that if I wanted to make people, you know, look forever for the real thing. Maybe.

Eric: Yeah.

Laura: Throw them off the scent, yeah.

Eric: Well, and the other thing, though, is that Voldemort is blinded by his arrogance. In suggesting or even thinking that somebody would be able to find out his secret of his Horcruxes. Yes, they might be highly guarded. But also, I don’t know if he’d go so far as to create fake ones if somebody were to – I think he’d have more pride and more time to conquer the world than keep creating, you know, an obscene amount of false Horcruxes. I mean, if Dumbledore had difficulty finding one or them, I think Voldemort is kind of right in his false security of being safe with his secret. But obviously somebody like R.A.B. could have easily come and found him out. So, you know, I don’t think there is a lot of decoy Horcruxes as it were, but, you know?

Jamie: Yeah.

Eric: For exactly that reason.

Laura: Good point, Eric.

Eric: Thank you. And I just wanted to, you know. Jamie went all out here with Under Siege 2: Dark Territory. Which was released the 14th of July…

Jamie: It is Dark Territory. Very good.

Eric; Yes. The 14th of July, 1995.

[Kevin laughs]

Jamie: Eric, you aren’t using IMDB, are you? That excellent site…

Eric: I am using IMDB.

Jamie: …for finding information?

Eric: At the top-right of the page I can’t help but notice this lovely advertisement for

Kevin: Oh, yeah.

Eric: But, at any rate. Director – directed by Geoff Murphy. And the writers are J.F. Lawton and Richard Hatem.

Jamie: Awesome.

Laura: Okay.

Jamie: Awesome.

Laura: Unless anyone else has anything to say about these rebuttals, I think it’s about time we move into our main discussion. So are you guys ready?

Jamie: Yep.

Main Discussion: Gringotts in Book 7

Laura: Okay, with all of the feedback that we’ve gotten about Gringotts, I thought that it would be good to talk about what role Gringotts could play in Deathly Hallows. Now, I was looking through Sorcerer’s Stone, and I noticed that the description of Gringotts kind of fit the description that we see on the cover. It’s described as having “narrow stone passageways with flaming torches. It slopes steeply downward and there are little railway tracks on the floor. Twisting passages.” Harry also saw “a burst of fire at the end of the passage,” which would support the theory that they’re actually facing a dragon…

Jamie: Yeah.

Laura: …in that one image. Also, Harry passed “an underground lake where huge stalactites and stalagmites grew from the ceiling and the floor.” So, we know that Gringotts isn’t just a bank. It’s actually kind of an – I mean, it’s actually got an underground lake, and…

Eric: There are catacombs.

Laura: …it’s got ravines, and…

Jamie: Yeah.

Kevin: Yeah.

Laura: Yeah. It’s not just a building. And that’s what I find interesting about it.

Jamie: Well, the thing I always thought, the main point I always thought about Gringotts and the thing that we should to always include and stress, is that it’s not under the control of the good side, and it never has been. And like, even though Dumbledore uses one of the vaults to store the Philosopher’s Stone, that doesn’t mean that he has control over everything. It’s just a high security vault that he happens to own or loan. And I think that it’s, you know, it’s important to point out that both sides can use Gringotts if they want to. It just seems like a kind of neutral player in the whole war, you know?

Laura: Yeah, it really does.

Jamie: Don’t kill us and we won’t side with the other side. So, I think it could be immensely important in the, you know, seventh book, just because of that.


Laura: Yeah, the impression that I’ve gotten of the goblins is that they don’t really care one way or the other as long as they’re not affected.

Jamie: Exactly, yeah.

Eric: Hmmm. I don’t think it is so much that, though.

Jamie: And as long as they survive and as long as they, you know, get their gifts.

Eric: Well, yeah. They do want to survive, but they aren’t necessarily the people who are going to say, “Just don’t hurt us and we’ll go along with you.” I think they’re also -There’s a bit of greed and there’s a bit of loyalty among goblins. I mean, they’ve rebelled how many times throughout history that we hear of. So they aren’t exactly…

Jamie: That’s true.

Eric: …non-active members when wars and things are breaking out. They do participate in wars. So, I think they are not as much, you know, importantly neutral as they are appearing to be now. I think it’s just a matter of greed and power. I think they have ties to both the good and the dark side. And, let’s face it. I mean, both the good and bad people can have the same bank. So, money’s kind of, money kind of – you know, there’s charity and there’s obviously blood money, you know?

Kevin: Well, I wouldn’t say necessarily that they have ties to the good or bad side. I think they are neutral to who they serve. So, whether you’re good and bad they are going to give you a bank account. Because they…

Eric: Right, but they aren’t necessarily going to stay out of war, either.

[Jamie laughs]

Kevin: I’m not sure about that, because…

Laura: [laughs] I think the only way they involved in a war was if they – if it directly impacted the goblins.

Jamie: I agree, yeah.

Laura: If they don’t have any reason to be involved, I don’t think they will be.

Kevin: And if you remember, this has already happened before. So, the fact that they weren’t – they didn’t mention punishing them or, you know, putting any restrictions on them, it means that they weren’t a problem before. Why would they be a problem now?

Laura: Yeah. I mean, you hear about how giants played a big part in the first war, but you never hear anything about goblins.

Kevin: Right, and that’s not to say that there’s not one goblin that’s corrupt, but that goes for anyone.

Micah: Well, I think that they have a lot of pride in what they do, and I think if that pride was threatened, whether it was from one side or the other, then that may cause them to act. And I liked what Jamie was saying before about how we’ve seen it play such a big role in the first book, and we saw that it’s not completely safe either, because that vault was broken into by Voldemort, so – or Quirrelmort, whatever you want to call him. It’s a very good chance that, you know, they’re not playing one side or the other because I think they would have reacted a lot differently if, for instance, they were on the good side completely.

Kevin: Yeah.

Micah: You know what I mean?

Kevin: Yeah, that’s true. But can’t they just be neutral? There’s those people who decide to stand out and, you know?

Laura: I mean, I’ve just always kind of gotten the impression of the goblins that, save someone from the good side, did something bad to a goblin, they’re not going to go join Voldemort’s ranks just because someone from the good side did something to them. They’re going to go after that one person.

Jamie: They are, but – I don’t know, I mean, I don’t want to sort of insult these creatures, but it just seems that if I were a dementor…

Micah: You shouldn’t insult them.

Jamie: No, no, no.

Micah: They might come after you in your sleep.

Jamie: They might do, Micah. Don’t – don’t – you know, you read these chain letters, and it’s like, “I am six years old. I have no eyes. If you don’t forward this to 100…”

Laura: [laughs] Oh yeah, I saw that one.

Jamie: “…million people in the next two seconds, I’ll come to your bed tonight and kill you.”

Laura: I got that one once.

Jamie: So then they might come after you, Micah.

[Everyone laughs]

Jamie: So don’t – so don’t push your luck. No, no.

Kevin: Oh, god.

[Everyone laughs]

Jamie: The way I see it is that it seems that these kind of creatures – now, I don’t want to sort of generalize over goblins – but dementors – it seems that they are ideally suited to be on Voldemort’s side. He’ll give them what they want, which is a feast of souls, and it just seems like – I don’t know if it’s just me, but it seems that they would be better served by going with Voldemort. I’m sure whatever they want, he could provide for them, whereas Dumbledore will say…

Kevin: Yeah, but is it…

Jamie: “Is it good? If it’s good, I’ll give it to you. If it’s not good, then you can ‘Go Fish.'”

Kevin: Yeah, but that’s why I’m saying I don’t think it’s about good or bad with them.

Laura: Yeah.

Kevin: I think it’s about money.

Jamie: What they want. Exactly, it is, yeah. I agree.

Kevin: And so they’re completely neutral, so long as they get money.

Jamie: Exactly, yeah.

Kevin: They could care less if it’s, you know, Voldemort’s vault or Harry Potter’s.

Laura: You know what, though? I’m not…

Kevin: It doesn’t matter, so long as money’s going in it.

Laura: I’m not sure I – I mean, whenever I consider the goblins, I think of a very proud culture, and…

Eric: Yeah, they are.

Laura: . . .a group of people or a group of creatures that would not take kindly to being seen as a group that would need an outside influence to give them what they wanted. I think they’re very self-sufficient and they want to earn what they can get for themselves, not have someone give it to them.

Eric: Yeah, it’s – that’s the other thing, too, and it’s great for Laura to point that out because if you think about it, despite the fact that they just want money, they are a proud people, or a proud group of creatures, or – they’re a proud group. And if you recall things throughout the Harry Potter books, for instance, Barty Crouch, was it? Who gave them false leprechaun gold to pay back some of his debts? I mean, things like that earn Ministry officials, if anything, if not just humans, very bad reps and very – you know, if somebody’s unreliable. I think Voldemort – if he can not just give them business but show that he is, in some ways, more true to his word, at least, that that might be respectable. Because, I mean, we’re coming down to the seventh book where we have to understand where the Ministry has screwed up in terms of being effective or not effective and treating other people as they should be treated.

Laura: Mhm. I’ve always wondered…

Eric: You know? So, I mean, yeah.

Laura: Sorry, Eric. I didn’t mean to cut you off, but I’ve always wondered what exactly is so frightening about goblins, because you were talking about Barty Crouch Jr., and I specifically…

Eric: No, no, Sr.

Laura: Oh, Sr., excuse me – and I specifically remember him being very nervous around the goblins, like – generally, if you give someone fake money and you’re not afraid of them, you’re not going to be trying to avoid them.

[Jamie coughs]

Laura: But he was clearly trying to avoid them and he seemed very nervous and I just wonder what, exactly, the goblins can do.

Eric: Well, Laura, they have a cave with a dragon and a lake and stalactites and stalagmites. They can…

Laura: Well, are they going to drag him down there and feed him to the dragon?

Eric: They can put him underground and tie him to a stalagmite. I’m dead serious. That’s the kind of stuff that happens in this world.

[Kevin laughs]

Laura: Yeah, but do they have the kind of powers that house elves have? Because we know that house elves –

Jamie: I think they’re more powerful.

Laura: We’ve never really seen a goblin exhibit power.

Eric: Well, take a look at the vault, then – the special vault, 713 – Dumbledore’s vault, by the way, which the Sorcerer’s Stone was kept in. I think it was at least – no, it was in the book – if anybody but a goblin tried to open the door this way, they would be sucked into the door and kept there forever, you know, “until we check it.” And Harry says…

Jamie: Ten years. Ten years.

Eric: Ten years – well, no, he said, “until we check it.”

Jamie: Roughly 10 years.

Eric: He says, “How often do you check it?” And he says, “Once every ten years,” so they’ve got some kind of power.

Jamie: Right, so 10 years.

Eric: It’d be a horrible lifestyle, kind of sucked into a door, but I wonder if you age.

[Jamie and Laura laugh]

Jamie: I think it would be quite like…

Eric: I’d rather see Jumanji, when he gets sucked into the board game and lives in the jungle for…

Jamie: Well, I’d rather seeJumanji – no, no, no, Eric, in Jumanji, that hunter…

Eric: Van Pelt?

Jamie: …Van Pelt, yeah? He could have beaten him easily. That gun that he was using – if he’d just thrown a barrel of water on them, it was so old, it would have jammed or something. He would have taken him down easily. It was so annoying watching him. He was like, “Van Pelt!”

Eric: Well, actually, the same guy who played the hunter Van Pelt also played Robin Williams’ father as a child, did you know?

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: Yeah, the actor, Jonathan Hyde.

Jamie: Oh, awesome. Really?

Eric: That’s Jumanji, which premiered the 15th of December, 1995. Thanks to the IMDB for that as well.

[Jamie laughs]

Griphook’s Quote

Laura: You know, Eric, it was kind of interesting that you brought up the whole quote…

Jamie: That’s pretty awesome.

Laura: …where Griphook said, “If anyone but a Gringotts goblin tried that, they’d be sucked through the door and trapped in there.” I think that’s interesting because if you look at the U.K. children’s edition cover, we’ve been talking about how it looks like they’re being dragged in somewhere. What if they’re being sucked into a vault?

Eric: Oh, wow. That’d be funny!

[Laura and Jamie laugh]

Eric: “We touched the door! We shouldn’t have touched the door! [moaning] Noooo.”

Jamie: That’d be interesting.

Eric: “Let us hope that in this…”

Jamie: You’d think that Harry would be cleverer than that, though.

Eric: Yeah, you really would.

Laura: You would, but now I can just see it. Like, we have – halfway through the book, we have ten years later, when the goblins finally come to check the vault.

Eric: Oh my gosh, actually, you know what? That’s more clever than I thought. In Episode 83, didn’t we talk about how it looked like a vault or an archway? Or something obviously…

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: …with treasure, so it makes sense that it’s a Gringotts vault, but maybe they were being sucked out of it. Or being sucked into the door, which would really suck for the ending of the series, but…

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: How, how would – I think a Muggle would fare better in there than a wizard, because…

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: …basically, we have cell phones, you know?

Laura: Yeah. Yeah, but do you…

Jamie: They’ve got nothing.

Laura: Would you get a cell signal in – at Gringotts?

Jamie: Although I doubt you get much reception down there, yeah.

Eric: Yeah, underneath London, but it all depends on how overloaded London is will cell phones, how deeply the…

Jamie: No, no, no, they have – yeah, that’s true. No, but – yeah, but Gringotts must install a Vodafone mast inside the building just so people can’t get a signal down in the vault, because it would be a bit unfair if you couldn’t.

Eric: Jamie, you have Vodafone.

Jamie: I think. Or there’s WiFi – free WiFi down in the vaults. I think that’s it.

Eric: Free WiFi, so when you’re down there, you can surf and…

Whose Vault Is It?

Laura: If they are being sucked into a vault, whose do you think it is? I was thinking maybe Hepzibah Smith…

Jamie: It has to be one of the special ones, though.

Laura: …because we were talking about how…

Micah: Yeah, I agree with that.

Laura: …she had a lot of treasure…

Jamie: She has a lot of treasure, yeah.

Laura: …plus the goblin-made armor. I mean, it could very well be hers. What if they go there looking for something that they thought Riddle might have used or wanted to use?

Eric: You know what I just thought?

Jamie: That’s true.

Eric: A brilliant thought just occurred to me. If they were to take an image – well, you tell me if it’s a brilliant thought, anyway. If they were to take a photograph of somebody, say, who has another photograph, for instance, with them in their pockets, such as wallet photographs, for instance. You know, if they move, etcetera. If they were able to get sucked into a door, couldn’t they then use that portrait to either travel themselves to the other person’s portrait, which would be outside of the door of the vault, or tell the other person inside to transfer to their portrait and get some serious help?

Laura: I guess it all depends on if you actually carry around a portrait, because I’ve never heard of having a wallet-sized picture that was a portrait.

Eric: It’s true. Well, photographs move, but we don’t know if photographs are separate from portraits in that they can move and visit their other subjects that are…

Laura: Well, they can leave, but the only personality we’ve seen has been from portraits.

Eric: Well, I don’t want to talk about whether or not they’re imprints of personalities or not, but they can transfer between portraits.

Laura: Yeah, they can.

Eric: I mean, that happens all the time in the books.

Laura: Yeah, but I mean…

Eric: And they can also visit their other selves such as the old headmaster who was at Grimmauld Place who was Sirius’ great-great-grandfather. What’s his name, please?

Laura: Phineas Nigellus.

Eric: Thank you, okay.

Laura: You’re welcome.

Jamie: Oh, go you, Laura.

Eric: Anyway, he went between his own potrait…

Laura: That’s like remembering your birthday, Jamie.

Eric: Yeah, well. Yeah, that’s freaking crazy. So, Kevin, are you April seventeenth, then? That’s pretty cool.

Kevin: Yes, I am.

Eric: I’m April 23rd. Shakespeare’s birthday, by the way.

Laura: Yeah, happy early birthday, you guys. Side note. [laughs]

Jamie: No, Eric, Eric. Shakespeare was born on your birthday. Come on.

[Laura and Kevin laugh]

Laura: Do you think, though? I mean, just talking about what Eric was saying about trying to get help. Do you think that even if you somehow manage to alert a friend or someone in your family, could they get you out? Would the goblins even let you out?

Kevin: I’m sure they would.

Laura: Do you think so, though? Because they’re the only one who can do it.

Jamie: They must do. Think of the claim if they didn’t let you out. You could sue them for so much money.

Laura: But how could you even prove that someone was locked in there?

Jamie: Well, you’d say, “Go and open it. And if there isn’t someone in there, I’ll give you some money.”

Laura: But they say they only check it every 10 years.

[Micah and Laura laugh]

Jamie: No, no, but they only check it every ten years if no one says anything. I think that’s just a random check. Every 10 years, they’ll check it to see if anyone’s in there, but if someone comes down and says, “Look, my son’s gone in there, okay? And I haven’t seen him for a few years…”

[Everyone laughs]

Jamie: “…so could you just go and look and see if he’s in there,” I think they’ll go and check, to be honest. I don’t know.

Micah: I just have a hard time believing that it’s a vault.

Laura: I think they might be reluctant.

Micah: Like, the problem with it is because of the sky that’s behind. It looks like the same sky, we said it one million times, that’s on the U.S. cover.

Laura: Yeah, it does. It definitely does. I mean, it could be the color of the inside of the vault. I know that whenever they opened Harry’s vault, green smoke came out, so what if we have various different colors of smoke that come out of the vaults when you open them?

Jamie: That’s interesting.

Laura: Maybe?

Micah: Yeah.

Jamie: That’s interesting, yeah.

Micah: Going back to what you said before, though, about whose vault might it be? I mean, there’s a couple of different things that look like cups that are in that treasure there, including one that’s right above the helmet, if you look sort of right above the helmet on the right-hand side. So maybe that’s her cup.

Eric: Well, cups are a very important thing.

Micah: Maybe he’s going for a Horcrux.

Eric: If you’re going to make something useful out of gold, why shouldn’t it be a goblet, you know?

Micah: My point is the Horcrux that’s supposed to be Hufflepuff’s cup.

Eric: But it actually could also be a grail reference, of course, to Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, per se, where at the end…

Micah: Yeah. I mean, they’re riding around Gringotts on those little carts.

Eric: …he has to choose wisely.

[Laura and Jamie laugh]

Jamie: Yeah, yeah, that’s what they say.

Laura: It could also be a reference to all of the Arthurian legend we’ve been talking about, Micah.

Jamie: Yeah.

Micah: That’s very true. That’s very true.

Eric: Possibly. So, I don’t know.

Laura: But you think that’s a bit more likely, right, Eric?

Eric: Well, no.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade was about the Arthurian legend and Saint – what was it, Peter or Christopher, who stayed behind and guarded the grail?

Jamie: Who are you talking about?

[Laura laughs]

Eric: I don’t know. But the guy who guarded the grail, and so he chose…

Jamie: In what? In what?

Eric: … poorly.

Jamie: Oh, that knight. That’s got to be the suckiest job ever. Oh my god.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: But he had immortality and he had faith, so Jamie, don’t mock.

Jamie: Eric, Eric, it doesn’t matter if you have immortality and faith. When you’re stuck in a room for 3,000 years with a load of cups, seriously, there’s no worse life ever.

MuggleCast 87 Transcript (continued)

Horcrux at Gringotts?

Laura: [laughs] So kind of backtracking here and talking about the possibility of Voldemort – or the trio going to Gringotts to find something of Voldemort’s. Do you think it’s possible that he would have actually hidden a Horcrux at Gringotts?

Micah: Yes!

Eric: What? Voldemort?

Laura: Where do you think…

Micah: Why not?

Laura: Yeah. I mean where do you think he’d hide it?

Micah: It’s the safest place.

Laura: I mean there’s definitely – no, I’m not saying no, I’m saying there’s a large number of underground natural places – like, you know, the lakes, ravines…

Micah: And a vault.

Eric: Well, it’s important to think – it’s important to know that Voldemort has already been to Gringotts and remember that, because Voldemort has been to Gringotts before. He was with Quirrell trying to break into vault 713.

Laura: Was he?

Eric: Yes, he was.

Laura: I thought Quirrell hadn’t been possessed by then. Because Quirrell wasn’t wearing…

Eric: No, I think it was after his failure…

Laura: But Quirrell wasn’t wearing the turban when Harry met him first.

Eric: Well, look, whether or not he was possessed, Voldemort was probably right there next to Quirrell, if it was on the back of his head or not, trying to help him get into Gringotts, because, “believed to be the act of dark witches or wizards unknown” – its serious, you know, Quirrell wasn’t sucked into the door so, you know, I’d like to think that Voldemort had some kind of aide in that because Quirrell is really supposed to be a bumbling fool.

Laura: But he turned out not to be. It kind of turned out to be an act.

Eric: Well, no, no, it’s not a matter of – I mean he was daft enough – he was daft enough to get himself lost in Albania or whatever and be possessed by Voldemort, so I would still say part of that is how stupid or incompetent he was as a Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher.

Laura: You know we’re kind of just talking about how Voldemort likes to hide his Horcruxes in areas that wouldn’t necessarily be considered completely safe. I mean Gaunt’s ring was in kind of the ruins of the house and the locket was in a cave. So, I think it definitely is a possibility that he would hide a Horcrux in Gringotts, maybe not even in a vault. Because he seems to kind of like secluded areas that…

Jamie: I don’t know, but – but, it leaves it kind of open, doesn’t it? It’s like, it’s like having a house which is really, really secure and then breaking into it and hiding your Horcrux in there. It’s like giving control over your Horcrux to a different group. I don’t know. It just seems like I am sure the goblins know all of Gringotts secrets and I’m sure that there’s a way to find out what’s in there automatically. So…

Laura: Well, what – I mean, you know, we’re kind of talking about the goblins as being impartial. What if they view customer confidentiality the way any other bank does? I mean, not to get terribly confidential – or terribly specific here but if they’re viewing anything being locked up in their bank as something that belongs to a customer, they’re not going to tell anybody about it.

Eric: That’s actually true, Laura. It’s a brilliant idea as well, because if Voldemort’s got a safe deposit box – here’s an idea, Voldemort: get a safe deposit box and the only way anybody else will be able to enter it will be if they inherit the safe deposit box. Hide your Horcruxes in there and you will never have to worry about anybody else inheriting…

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: …because you won’t have to worry about being expired.

Laura: Yeah, never have kids.

Eric: Just, you know…

Laura: For obvious reasons.

Eric: Well, never have kids but what I’m saying…

Laura: Don’t have kids.

Eric: …is he can’t die because of his Horcruxes, so if he puts his Horcruxes in something that will only be passed on once he dies, it’s kind of a win/win situation. I don’t know, I mean that makes sense to me.

Laura: Yeah, it’s true.

Micah: I was going to say, I don’t necessarily think the cave was a not safe place to hide it. I mean think of all the things that they had to go through just to get to the locket. But my other thought was what if the rest of the Horcruxes, at least the ones that are sort of the inanimate objects, aside from Nagini – what if they’re all in a vault somewhere? Is that possible? I mean, are they all in the same place? Or do you think they’re all in different places?

Laura: Well, I mean – I personally think for the sake of the story, they’re in different places.

Jamie: Yeah, I think so.

Eric: Yeah.

Laura: But that’s not to say that in reality they couldn’t all be together, but I think they way Voldemort operates is he doesn’t want – at least in my opinion, he wouldn’t want to make it completely impossible to find a Horcrux because in that way, if he makes it so that there is way to get to them, like there was in the cave, when someone doesn’t it’s like saying he is intellectually superior…

Jamie: Exactly…

Laura: …and he has beaten that person. So, I don’t think he’s going to go out of his way to make it impossible to find his Horcruxes.

Jamie: And also people like him…

Eric: Because he wants to watch people try and fail.

Jamie: And – no, but more than that he wants to see somebody succeed. He wants to have an equal, but he doesn’t want to have an equal. He wants to have somebody who can solve the thing and then go on to beat them. You know? It’s like all people in power, you want somebody who’s as powerful as you, or almost as powerful as you so that you can…

Eric: Because otherwise you’re bored.

Jamie: Otherwise you’re bored and can…

Eric: You get bored …

Jamie: …beat everyone. It’s hubris.

Laura: So, kind of – I mean, take…

Jamie: It’s a kind of hubris.

Laura: Taking what you just said, Jamie, isn’t it kind of creepy that Harry’s sort of doing what Voldemort wants.

Jamie: Exactly, yeah. It is. I think – why would you – if you wanted no one to find your Horcruxes – now Voldemort isn’t stupid and I know that Dumbledore says he’s attracted to power and that he wanted Horcruxes that were symbolic and you know, special objects, but if he wanted people not to find his Horcruxes he would have made them all tin cans and buried them 500 meters below the ground, you know? If…

Laura: Yeah.

Jamie: As a wizard he could make his Horcruxes Unfindable if he wanted them to but clearly…

Eric: Yeah, Unplottable.

Jamie: …he hides them under mazes, you know, with loads of challenges so that people, if they’re worthy, can find them. You know? I don’t think – I don’t know – perhaps he’s looking for a successor one day. You know? It’s like – again a Dan Brown reference in The DaVinci Code – the cryptographer, Sophie, talks about self-authorizing code. If you’re smart enough to read it, then you’re smart enough to know what it says. So, it’s kind of like that. If you’re smart enough to find out where his Horcruxes are and beat them then you’re smart enough to defeat Voldemort. Perhaps it’s like that.

Eric: Yeah.

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: Or the clues, you know – the traps and things are only as smart as those who create them or set them.

Jamie: Well, exactly.

Eric: You know, so – I think you’re right in that. I think you’re right, definitely.

Micah: Well, I think the person who obviously has to find out first that he’s created Horcruxes. I mean, think about how much Harry had to go through just to be 100 percent sure that that’s how Voldemort was able to stay alive.

Eric: That was Dumbledore’s process actually.

Micah: Yeah, but think about that. If you don’t even solve that initial piece, you’re – you can’t even begin your quest to destroy them.

Eric: Oh, yeah. Then you don’t even know where to look, where to begin to look. I mean, it’s still such a mystery to you then. Why Harry has his scar? I mean besides the prophecy. Why, you know – why Voldemort just is not killed and why he exists in such minimal soul form, when he loses his body. If you don’t even know about Horcruxes, as I presume most people don’t then you’re right. It’s the – I mean, that’s the first puzzle piece. And we saw Dumbledore piece the things together from hearing Harry talk about the diary in Year 2, to kind of seeing these living entities as potential Horcruxes, and then further tracing things back. Three cheers for Dumbledore, man. Seriously, what the – you know? That’s…

[Kevin laughs]

Jamie: Yeah.

Eric: …some good detective work.

Laura: Yay. [laughs]

Eric: That’s some good detective work. Dumbledore is the real HP sleuth, I’ll tell you that.

Is U.K. Cover the Final Showdown?

Laura: Kind of moving on, you know, everybody had kind of been speculating that perhaps the U.K. cover depicted the trio coming back from the setting that we see in the U.S. cover because the skies are the same color. Now, this kind of led me to wonder exactly when in the book does this scene take place? Like, is this the final showdown which would take place at Gringotts, or is this the middle of the book? Where do we think this is?

Jamie: I don’t know if I could take that the last confrontation is going to be in Gringotts. I want it to be somewhere…

Laura: Yeah.

Jamie: …a bit more. I mean…

Kevin: Yeah, same here.

Jamie: …I know Gringotts is important, but something a bit more symbolic.

Eric: Well, then again…

Kevin: I think it would be more towards the middle, actually.

Eric: I think it depends on…

Laura: That’s what I’ve been thinking. If it’s Gringotts, I think it’ll definitely be more towards the middle of the book.

Eric: Yeah. I think it depends on where the book is heading, though. I mean, if you think – because I had seen an interview once, of this – of a kid who developed a friendship with J.K. Rowling and wrote letters back and forth, and it must’ve been on Oprah or something, but he had said that he wrote letters back and forth and tried to guess the ending of the books, and he shared J.K.R.’s sincere, you know, kind of nodding her head, when he said to her that he thought the Muggles were going to find out about the Wizarding World. So, it depends on the direction Book 7 takes, because if you’re thinking about – if Book 7 is headed in a direction where Muggles find out about wizards, then actually, an end battle being underneath London is kind of climatic enough for me, I think. If, you know – if you want to really take it like that.

Laura: That’s a good point, actually, but just one last thing that I wanted to add was that the trio’s actually on the U.K. edition, which kind of leads me to believe that that scene would be more towards the middle of the book, because I’m a firm believer that Harry has to face Voldemort on his own, and that’s the one thing that always kind of threw me off of thinking they were coming back from whatever setting we see on the U.S. cover because I don’t think they’re going to be there, at the end.

Micah: I mean, are they…

Eric: But is that because they’re standing, by eating plum cake?

Micah: Yeah.

Eric: Or is that because they’re dead.

Micah: That’s right before Harry slips and cracks his pelvis.

Jamie: Yeah, on that carrot cake.

[Kevin laughs]

Micah: One thing I’ve always wondered about this scene was, could you take it and make it so they’re falling down as opposed to being pulled through?

Jamie: What? Into the arch, you mean?

Micah: Yeah. No,no. Like if…

Eric: As they’re being thrown out.

Laura: Yeah.

Micah: …you looked, if you’re looking at this on a computer, say you took your computer and flipped it.

Jamie: If you think that Harry’s face is pointing skyward…

Micah: Right, that’s what I’m saying. Is – are they falling down?

Laura: So it’s, like, you look at it like a vertical…

Micah: Right.

Laura: …completely…

Micah: Right.

Laura: …downward view, as opposed to – oh, okay. Yeah, I see what you’re talking about.

Eric: Well, what would that change? It would change because they’re about to land on some sharp gold…

Micah: No, no, no.

Eric: …cups.

Micah: It would be that they would be falling into the ground…

Laura: It would be interesting because…

Micah: …when they’re supposed to be pulled through something that’s standing upright.

Eric: Oh, well.

Laura: Ah, that makes me excited because it gives me another parallel about how they fell through the trapdoor. Ahhh! I love it, sorry.

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Laura: I’m a dork, don’t make fun of me.

Eric: All so magical!

Laura: It really is. So, are – you think we’ve pretty much covered this, everybody?

Kevin: I think so.

Laura: Covered Gringotts to death.

Making The Connection

Jamie: Okay, and then we’ll go to our segment that we came up with a few weeks ago for the special show, which hopefully we’re going introduce a couple of times. We’re going to do “Making the Connection,” where I name a random thing and then each of the hosts have to make a connection between that thing and Harry Potter. Kevin, yours is the – the curtains as a fire hazard and Harry Potter.

Kevin: Oh, well, that’s obvious because the Veil can light on fire with all the…

[Jamie laughs]

Kevin: …torches around in the veil room and stuff.

Eric: See, Kevin’s good at this.

Kevin: All they use is candles, and you know, they don’t use any light bulbs or anything.

Jamie: No, they don’t.

Kevin: So, I could see Book 7 – it’s going to be a major event.

Jamie: Yeah.

Kevin: The veil lighting on fire.

Eric: No, no, no, no. That’s Crackpot Theory, but I mean, I see what you’re saying. I mean, if you set that on fire – if you set the Veil on fire, that’s no portal to the world of death anymore.

Kevin: Oh, yeah, absolutely.

Eric: Souls can’t get through. It’s like Little Nicky, where they’re just sticking to the – the – you know?

Jamie: Okay, Eric, yours is – let’s think. Okay, an overpriced buffet and Harry Potter.

Eric: Well, clearly the Weasleys are…

[Jamie and Laura laugh]

Eric: …personified in the series as being not of sufficient money, so an overpriced buffet would actually greatly upset them and they would not actually be seen – basically, an overpriced buffet is an unlikely scene in the Harry Potter series on two – with two exceptions. One is that for Bill and Fleur’s wedding, they go all out and say, “What the hay, we’re going to go to an overpriced buffet,” and in the meantime, you know, what is the function of the toffee…


Eric: Well, no, they have toffees and stuff, but – and the other exception would be that Harry treats, perhaps at the end of this, you know, at the end of the book – this is, again, kind of originally Crackpot Theory. Basically…

Kevin: Or the house elves start charging.

Jamie: Yeah.

Eric: Oh, that’s true as well.

Kevin: That’s true.

Eric: That’s true. Hey, hey, put it this way, Kevin. Thank you for that, because if the house elves started charging, gosh, what wouldn’t be an overpriced buffet? All the, you know, all the pumpkin pasties, and everything that they eat, and it just keeps refilling itself, that’s an overpriced buffet. Thank you, Kevin.

Jamie: Laura, your one is Augustus Gloop and Harry Potter.

Laura: Oh, well, I mean, you look at all the candy you see in Harry Potter, it’s…

[Jamie laughs]

Laura: …a wonder that people don’t come out like Augustus Gloop. I mean, next thing you know…

Eric: Some do.

Laura: …Harry’s going to get sucked up a giant [laughs] tube of chocolate milk…

Eric: Hey, hey, Laura.

Laura: …in the next book.

Eric: Some do. Some do turn out like Augustus Gloop.

Laura: Oh, Dudley, that’s true.

Jamie: That’s very true. Okay, Micah, back to you.

Laura: But see…

Jamie: I can’t remember what yours is. You’re just going to have to improvise.

Eric: It’s Tiger Woods and Harry Potter.

Jamie: Oh, yeah, Tiger Woods and Harry Potter. Come on.

Micah: Well, I mean, I think it’s pretty obvious, don’t you? Tiger Woods is a huge sports star, Harry is a huge sports star. He plays Quidditch, Tiger Woods plays golf. They both play on grass. Or Harry plays over grass, I guess. But I think – I think that’s, you know – Harry’s won a few trophies in his time, and Tiger Woods has won his fair share as well. So…

Jamie: Very good.

Eric: There’s just one detail I would’ve for you to mention as well. Small balls.

[Laura and Micah laugh]

Micah: Oh my god. [laughs]

Jamie: Eric, do you know something about them we don’t know?

Eric: No, no, no! Not – not – not…[laughs]…no, Jamie, no, Jamie! Listen…

[Laura and Micah are still laughing]

Micah: No, no.

Eric: No. Small balls. They both play a sport involving and centralized around small balls.

Micah: No, you can’t leave that in.

Jamie: Yes.

Eric: The snitch…

[Laura laughs]

Eric: The snitch is the most important ball in Quidditch, and golf is very small…in fact, the snitch, if I’m not mistaken, is described as being shaped – the size as a golf ball.

Laura: Why don’t you use that as your comparison? [laughs]

Jamie: Eric, Eric. Do you know in Philosopher’s Stone when Harry first went to play Quidditch and Oliver Wood didn’t want to lose the golden snitch, so he threw a load of golf balls around, and Harry caught them all? Well, when Tiger Woods first played golf, they got a golden snitch and he hit it, and it flew away and they couldn’t find it.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: Well, that’s good. That’s a great story to end on for me because I’ve actually got to get going.

Laura: Well, Eric, thank you for joining us.

Jamie: Bye, Eric.

Eric: Oh, you’re so welcome!

Laura: Outro yourself.

Eric: Yup, okay, ‘night, everybody, and take care and everything.

Jamie: Bye bye.

Eric: And also, the Kiwis say it here, cheers! Cheers, cheers.

Jamie: Chars! Bye bye.

Laura: Cheers.

Chicken Soup For The MugleCast Soul

Laura: From there we’re going to move onto Chicken Soup for the MuggleCast Soul. This one comes from Chris, 22. He’s located on the Atlantic Ocean. And he writes: Hey, MuggleCast…

Jamie: [laughs] On it? [laughs] He lives on the Atlantic Ocean?

Laura: Yes! He does, actually, Jamie, listen to the e-mail.

Jamie: What? He can walk on water? He just lives there? Sorry, go.

[Kevin and Laura laugh]

Laura: I’ve been a pretty big fan of you guys for a while now, and I have never missed an episode until a couple of months ago. I’m in the Navy and right now my ship is sailing the Atlantic. I barely get access to the Internet, and I get no access to the weekly podcasts. The only thing that is keeping me from going insane is my iPod packed with past episodes that you guys have done. Only two of my co-workers are into Harry Potter and MuggleCast as much as I am. But we work opposite shifts, giving us no time at all to mention the boy wizard’s name to each other. Well, I just wanted to write you guys, while the Internet is still up and working, to let you know that you are missed. When I come back to land I will not hesitate to download all the missed episodes. Take Care!

Jamie: Awww.

Kevin: Does he receive mail? I wonder if we can…

Jamie: I don’t know. You’d have to ask him.

Laura: Yeah, he does. I wrote him back, actually. Yep, he does.

Kevin: Because I wonder if we can’t send him a couple DVDs with just episodes on them.

Laura: Oh, that would be a good idea. Let us know, Chris, let us know if we can do that for you.

Jamie: How does he receive the mail? How does the receive the mail?

[Laura laughs]

Kevin: They actually fly it in, I believe.

Laura: By owl, Jamie. [laughs]

Jamie: By owl, yeah. No, no, no, no. One person just builds a paper airplane and he puts it all on there and throws it as hard as he can and it just gets to the boat.

Kevin: Well, there was an amazing invention in the last century called an airplane.

Jamie: Never heard of that. What does it do? Is it good?

pLaura laughs]

Kevin: It actually flies.

Jamie: No! No! Only birds can do that.

Laura: You don’t have those in Britain?

Jamie: And Icarus. But he screwed up.

Micah: So, Jamie, how did you get over here all those times? You swam?

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: I flapped my arms as hard as I can.

Laura: [laughs] He flapped his arms really hard.

Jamie: Yeah. I just got lucky.

Laura: Thank you, Chris, and you take care. Definitely. Thanks for writing.

Jamie: Thank you.

Show Close

Laura: Yeah, and I’m pretty sure that that wraps up this week’s show. As always, Skype the username MuggleCast and… [stumbles over her words] I can’t even do this. I can’t even do it.

[Show music begins]

Laura: I don’t know how he does it.

Kevin: Have Jamie do it.

Laura: I think he must pull up a…

Jamie: It doesn’t have to be truthful information. Just be like: [imitating Andrew] “Ifff” you want to… [stumbles over his words] Uhhh, sorry.

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: [imitatig Andrew] “Ifff” you want to leave a voicemail, Skype the username MuggleCast. Please keep your message under 30 seconds and eliminate as much background noise as possible.

Laura: [imitating Andrew] As possible.

Jamie: If you are in the U.K., dial 12127864321. If you’re in the U.S., dial 028-024-20-MAGIC. If you’re in Australia, dial 4765927. And yes, please call soon. Or you can go on Frappr

[Micah laughs]

Laura: I don’t think you gave the right numbers, Jamie. [laughs]

Jamie: No, I didn’t. I just made those up.

[Everyone laughs]

Jamie: For our communities you can go on Facebook, MySpace, or Frappr. Please see us because we love hearing from you guys. We’ve got over 6000 friends on MySpace now. So, please add us and we will add you back. Thank you very much. I’m Andrew Sims.

Laura: Even though we won’t really.

Jamie: No, no, no, no, no.

Laura: And for those of you who are really wondering what the numbers were, in the U.S. that’s 1-218-20-MAGIC (62442). In the United Kingdom that’s 020-8144-0677. And if you’re down under that’s going to be 02-8003-5668.

Also, do not forget to vote for us at Podcast Alley, and please review us at Yahoo! Podcasts.

I think that pretty much wraps up all the closing announcements. So, with that, I’m Laura Thompson.

Jamie: I’m Jamie Lawrence.

Kevin: I’m Kevin Steck.

Micah: And I’m Micah Tannenbaum. [laughs]


Eric: Yeah. By the way, Pirates of the Caribbean comes out next May. And I think we should promotionalize that one, as well, to see if…

Laura: This May.

Eric: Oh, this May, this May. This upcoming month.

Jamie: Yeah, we should. We should start getting more of these deals where we just promote a few books or films, or you know…

Kevin: Isn’t it?

Eric: Yeah, totally. We need to talk to…

Micah: The trailer actually is out. Have you seen the trailer?

Eric: I haven’t seen the trailer.

Laura: Oh, it looks so awesome. I’m so excited.

Eric: I am going to go on the Internet Movie Database, that is, I am going to go on the Internet Movie Database to check out that trailer.

Laura: Johnny Depp. Oooh!

Eric: With Apple Quicktime. I am going to view Apple Quicktime.

[Jamie laughs]

Eric: Checking out the trailer on IMDB…

[Laura laughs]

Eric: …of Pirates of the Carribean, you know…

Jamie: How do you view Apple Quicktime? Eric, Eric. Can you view Quicktime on a normal computer, or do you need a specialist Apple Mac, which you can buy from, I hear, I’m not sure, though. I think you get a discount from being in education, but I’m not sure at all. Are you sure? Do you know?

Eric: Jamie, as a matter of fact, I’m working off a PC Dell XPS M140 laptop, which I purchased at…

Jamie: They’re good I hear, very good, I hear. Very good, very good.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: They are quite good. Quite economic, and it actually work overseas, as well.

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: You only need a small adapter.

Jamie: Wow!

Eric: Nothing as far as voltage converters.

Laura: And you don’t have to restart your computer twice to record the show. [laughs]

Eric: This can be purchased from any Triple A travel store and travel center, for the unwitting price of about 495. So, it’s quite economical and…

Jamie: Or you could vote on Podcast Alley.

Laura: Okay.

Eric: And…yes, of course.

Laura: Now that Eric has his check, I think he needs to read the next rebuttal.

Jamie: I think he does.

Kevin: [laughs] He does.

Jamie: Here’s a – I’m sure she’s heard this a million times before, but if she invited us round for the first meal of the day, what would we be doing? [pause of silence] What would we be eating, and where? What’s the name, or what… [laughs]

Kevin: What? If who invited – what? I’m confused.

Laura: Oh…

Jamie: If the person who wrote this thing invites us around for the first meal of the day…

Laura: Breakfast at Tiffany’s.

Jamie: [laughs] Oh, god.

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: She said she loved the dumb jokes.

Laura: Oh, you’re sooo funny.

Jamie: She said she loves the dumb jokes. There you go.

Laura: Yeah, and she probably loves how it takes us like 10 years to catch onto them.

Kevin: Yeah.

[Kevin and Laura laugh]

Jamie: I bet she does. I bet that’s her favorite thing.

Micah: That’s all the news for this…[laughs] I don’t know what date it is. That’s all the news for this…[laughs] Oh, [word bleeped out].


Written by: Micah, Allison, Briana, Cindy, Jessica, Laura, Leah, Margaret, Matt, Samantha, Sapna, Shannon, Shelly, and Tina